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08.17.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 16th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 9:40 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Enter the IRC channel now

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ld50 hi Aug 16 00:32
schestowitz Hi there. Aug 16 00:36
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anivar schestowitz: hey Aug 16 03:48
anivar “In a major victory for the open source software movement, the federal Aug 16 03:49
anivar appeals court in Washington, D.C., has ruled that simply because a Aug 16 03:49
anivar software programmer may give his work away for free does not mean that Aug 16 03:49
anivar the software cannot be protected. The decision legitimizes the use of Aug 16 03:49
anivar commercial contracts for the distribution of computer software and Aug 16 03:49
anivar digital artistic works for the public good. The ruling also boosts the Aug 16 03:49
anivar open source movement by easing the concerns of large organizations Aug 16 03:49
anivar about relying on free software from developers who contributed to the Aug 16 03:49
anivar effort without pay. The ruling will also have implications for the Aug 16 03:49
anivar Creative Common license, which is used by organizations such as Aug 16 03:49
anivar Wikipedia and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology for Aug 16 03:49
anivar distributing courseware and other materials. Creative Commons CEO Aug 16 03:49
anivar Joichi Ito says the ambiguity facing open source licensing has been Aug 16 03:49
anivar one of the obstacles hindering the movement. The appeals court Aug 16 03:49
anivar decision reversed a San Francisco federal court ruling over the Aug 16 03:49
anivar misappropriation of a software program by Kam Industries, a company Aug 16 03:49
anivar that publishes model train hobbyist software. Kam Industries owner Aug 16 03:49
anivar Matthew A. Katzer had sued free software developers for patent Aug 16 03:49
anivar infringement while the free software community argued that Katzer Aug 16 03:49
anivar failed to disclose earlier technology, or prior art, in his patent Aug 16 03:50
anivar filings. In March 2006, University of California, Berkeley professor Aug 16 03:50
anivar Robert G. Jacobsen filed a lawsuit against Katzer claiming that his Aug 16 03:50
anivar company was distributing a commercial software program that used code Aug 16 03:50
anivar from the Java Model Railroad Interface project, and was redistributing Aug 16 03:50
anivar the program without the credits required as part of the open source Aug 16 03:50
anivar license it was originally distributed under. The lower court ruled Aug 16 03:50
anivar that the terms of the open source contract were overly broad…” Aug 16 03:50
anivar http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/t… Aug 16 03:50
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prasad schestowitz,  No software Patents Bangalore planning meeting is about to start at #bmslug Aug 16 06:01
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neighborlee LOL, the ‘other side’ is now resorting to saying things like boycottnovell has lied just to try to get rid of novel LOL,,they are really desperate ;) Aug 16 08:06
neighborlee http://ubuntuforums.org/showthrea… Aug 16 08:07
*schestowitz looks Aug 16 08:07
neighborlee in this case, smartboyathome < Aug 16 08:07
neighborlee what a name :) Aug 16 08:08
schestowitz Your reply pretty much says it all. Aug 16 08:09
neighborlee :) Aug 16 08:09
schestowitz That’s why the name of the Web site has never been helpful. Aug 16 08:10
schestowitz Microsoft people also have their share of smears about Groklaw too being “unfair”. Aug 16 08:11
neighborlee of course Aug 16 08:12
neighborlee laughingly, directHEX had no reply when caught in his deceipt in trying to paint a supposed patent encumbered kenrel issue : double click LOL…absolutely stunning nonsense and Im glad I caught it quickly as it just shows the level of crud they are willing to goto in order to get what they want…its like fighting back Microsoft..oh wait they are Microsoft ha-ha ; Aug 16 08:20
schestowitz If they trust Groklaw, show them Groklaw too. PJ has protested against Mono for years. Here is a recent one: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?… Aug 16 08:21
neighborlee ok kewl thx Aug 16 08:22
schestowitz You can also tells them that Groklaw suspects Microsoft /will/ sue. It’s just a matter of time (going beyond the extortion bit). Aug 16 08:22
neighborlee who is PJ sorry I dont recall that one Aug 16 08:22
schestowitz And hey! That’s not me. That’s just Groklaw. Maybe they’ll just make fun of Pam. Aug 16 08:22
schestowitz She runs Groklaw. Aug 16 08:23
neighborlee ahhh ah. Aug 16 08:23
neighborlee ahhh ok. Aug 16 08:23
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neighborlee its laughable it really is…no patent grants and no running behavior that would lead anyone to think they are on ‘our’ side ( a great deal to the opposite in fact ), yet those supporting it are so quick to want to run and adopt it…no great surprise why :) Aug 16 08:25
neighborlee thats ok , I dont mind a decent debate, never have ;) Aug 16 08:25
neighborlee schestowitz, anyway overall, how goes it ;) Aug 16 08:27
schestowitz They probably sing about merits of Mono while neglecting consequences. They want to justify their own choices, which is why it’s disappointing that Shuttleworth ety al feed them Mono in the first place (and get them ‘addicted’). Aug 16 08:27
neighborlee fine here, after finally having cooled down to toerable levels ;) Aug 16 08:27
neighborlee whew its been h ot lately for this area..washington state out near seattle Aug 16 08:27
schestowitz I woke up half an hour ago. Just been catching up. Microsoft’s XBox 360 is still a disaster it seems (just spotted that)… last place in its own back yard: US. Aug 16 08:28
neighborlee yeah indeed, shuttleworth..sheesh Aug 16 08:28
neighborlee hmm what did I miss about 360..though my wii is going st rong :)) Aug 16 08:29
schestowitz He already pays Microsoft for codecs. Does he also want to pay them for framework? He should be man enough to admit an incorrect choice and figure out a way to address it. Novell is poisoning a lot of distributions. Aug 16 08:29
neighborlee yup Aug 16 08:30
schestowitz The Wii, which everyone mocked at the start, is showing that less is more. XBox360 reminds me of Vista. Aug 16 08:30
neighborlee yeah there is that Aug 16 08:30
neighborlee Ive never enjoyed gaming more than wii Aug 16 08:30
neighborlee mainly due to wiiTennis, but overall much more and now including wiiFit ;) Aug 16 08:31
schestowitz it crashes (ceases to function), it burns, it’s expensive and it has already cost Microsoft $7 billion in _losses_. Aug 16 08:31
schestowitz Seems like there’s a revolt down in Bif Blue Australia… http://news.zdnet.com/2424-… Aug 16 08:31
schestowitz *LOL* http://xkcd.com/463/ Aug 16 08:32
neighborlee yeah 360 is def. costing them alot lol Aug 16 08:32
neighborlee checking Aug 16 08:32
neighborlee LOL Aug 16 08:34
neighborlee ewww Aug 16 08:34
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schestowitz neighborlee: watch this < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13… ( Why the Wii is well-suited to video game violence ) > Aug 16 09:16
neighborlee I pretty much likely know what its about…I was  very angry to hear off a few games that were allowed on wii…even Nintendo isn’t above making a profit even with its not moral ;( Aug 16 09:18
neighborlee I mean how lame must someone be, to suggest games aren’t gorey or bloody enough…sounds like a terrible childhood to me, and someone in need of a great deal of psychiatric care. Aug 16 09:19
schestowitz Yes, I know the guy. Aug 16 09:19
schestowitz Heavy metal fan. But he’s the CEO of MuleSource and we corresponded a few times. Aug 16 09:20
neighborlee ahhh now the pieces of the puzzle add up Aug 16 09:20
schestowitz Coming from his, this post isn’t a surprise. Aug 16 09:20
neighborlee my friend, when very young was allowed by his mother ( although she was totally clueless) to go see heavy metal movie..and now he    craves gorey, bloody games as a adult, and is basically very angry type with little patience Aug 16 09:21
*schestowitz is generally not a fan of violent games based on grounds of impact (but plays them nonetheless) Aug 16 09:21
schestowitz Which movie was that? Headbangers? Aug 16 09:22
neighborlee honestly no idea, I’d have to ask him Aug 16 09:22
neighborlee it was many years ago when he was very young Aug 16 09:22
neighborlee he wasn’t very well supervised. Aug 16 09:22
schestowitz I watched that a few years ago. Madness. Aug 16 09:22
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neighborlee and it shows..he’s also not a very nice person usually, but I try to befriend him . Aug 16 09:23
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schestowitz I’ve seen good families whose children were pulled by the goth ‘cult’. They become sociopaths. Aug 16 09:23
neighborlee weird Aug 16 09:23
neighborlee yeah I dont get what that crap is all about at all Aug 16 09:24
neighborlee I must be boring by comparison, with my like of The C arpenters LOL Aug 16 09:24
schestowitz It seems common when the parents don’t pay attention to the child. It’s rather tormenting and painful for parents to see their child bending that way. Aug 16 09:24
neighborlee boring and or nuts maybe ha-ha Aug 16 09:24
neighborlee yeah it would seem horrid. Aug 16 09:25
schestowitz I’d still like to know the story about Novell’s mormons in Utah. Aug 16 09:25
neighborlee It reallly does take a village to raise a child ;) Aug 16 09:25
neighborlee mormons scare me Aug 16 09:25
neighborlee though some christians scare me too  <G> Aug 16 09:25
schestowitz Other than hearsay I found little evidence of this. I watch some American TV shows about this phenomenon, but I know too little about how pervasive it is in Provo (I’m told so). Aug 16 09:26
neighborlee I mean its all academic at end of day,,very few people   really adhere to jesus teachings on many meaninful level, though thankfullly there are many exceptions ;) Aug 16 09:26
neighborlee to me it sounds like leave out jesus and insert some guy who claims to have seen god or something odd Aug 16 09:27
neighborlee dunno Aug 16 09:27
schestowitz Either way, it won’t be relevant to investigations around Novell  because the main branch is in Waltham, MA. Aug 16 09:27
neighborlee ahhh ;) Aug 16 09:27
schestowitz All I can say is that people who used to work at Novell told me about it. Aug 16 09:28
neighborlee weird Aug 16 09:29
neighborlee I always saw the wii as last gaming  haven against madness of ever increasing game violence, which I think is helping to desensitize people ( youth mainly) to it, and you can see the results in society in general I think. Aug 16 09:31
neighborlee when I saw the topic, I thought it was a joke actually, so its sad to see its not . Aug 16 09:32
neighborlee :) Aug 16 09:32
schestowitz Yes, same here. I se Jack Thompson smeared a lot (by young people), but while I can admit that I know too little about that saga, I agree that violent computer games cause a lot of damage. Aug 16 09:33
*schestowitz used to play lots of FPSs as a child Aug 16 09:33
neighborlee here is why such things bother me alot: http://heartseed.sf.net < that is me and what im doing and this website is the antithesis of everything I stand for. :) <  no surprise I would find it appauling heh> Aug 16 09:35
neighborlee yeah, there are  studies clearing showing violent video games does cause violent behavior Aug 16 09:35
neighborlee but , you wont find game developers, that make money from it citing such studies LOL Aug 16 09:35
schestowitz neighborlee: appalling? Why? Aug 16 09:37
neighborlee I guess I never got caught in any of that, but I can see someone that did easily getting desensitized by it ;0- Aug 16 09:37
neighborlee well if you consider the ways in which we interact with each other in real life Aug 16 09:38
schestowitz It’s like global warming. They’ll say anything to keep selling games. Aug 16 09:38
neighborlee violence on any level is immoral really Aug 16 09:38
schestowitz If you haven’t watched this < http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07… >, do it sometimes. Aug 16 09:38
neighborlee if thats what you were asking that is Aug 16 09:38
neighborlee ok Aug 16 09:39
neighborlee im one of those that actually lives jesus teachings, on every level Aug 16 09:39
neighborlee so yes things like this to me are appauling ;) Aug 16 09:39
schestowitz Then again, violence is bing glorified also on TV. I believe the administration/military is happy with it. In a land of pacifists, who would ever go to war that promote financial agendas? Aug 16 09:39
neighborlee yes. Aug 16 09:40
neighborlee carter I think really t ried to place our nation on the right path, then things went downhill from there ;0- Aug 16 09:40
neighborlee politics can be so messy ;( Aug 16 09:41
schestowitz Corrupt, not just messy. Aug 16 09:41
neighborlee yup Aug 16 09:41
schestowitz At this very moment I multitask with the placement of a new reference in http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/… Aug 16 09:42
neighborlee but yeah…tv is also turning out to be pretty darn odd/violent yes..my grandmother would be horrified ;) Aug 16 09:42
neighborlee tv , and movies….ohhhhhh ick ;) Aug 16 09:42
schestowitz The addition at the bottom is something I’ve just found. It all comes together now… the way politics is gamed by Microsoft through hired of secretive shills. Aug 16 09:42
schestowitz *hires Aug 16 09:42
neighborlee gratuitous violence to me is just sillly,,I mean it really serves no purpose but to line pockets of ceo’s LOL Aug 16 09:42
neighborlee hehe go you ;) Aug 16 09:43
schestowitz What was the frequency of acts of violence and of crime in a Hollywood blockbuster? I can’t recall the number, but it’s like hundreds. It’s all very violent/mischief packed. And then people wonder why “bad” is the new good and sabotage is seen as “cool”. Aug 16 09:44
neighborlee yup Aug 16 09:44
neighborlee games, t v, movies, its all there..oh and as much as it might paint me as old fashioned…porn too ;00- Aug 16 09:44
schestowitz Corruption too is caused by glorification of mafias, casinos and the likes of that. Aug 16 09:44
neighborlee in the right place I guess porn ‘can’ be useful, but honeslty overall I think its a waste of time,,if you need porn to be active with your partner you are prob. with the wrong person LOL Aug 16 09:45
schestowitz I sometimes wonder how Ballmer reacts deep inside when he bribes some politician, probably thinking of himself as a new-age Godfather Soprano. Gates with his bribes still wants to be seen as a Rockafeller. Aug 16 09:45
neighborlee how true lol Aug 16 09:46
neighborlee oh btw..has novel ever to date disclosed the deal with m$ ?? Aug 16 09:52
neighborlee I mean all those patent violations as such Aug 16 09:53
schestowitz They published a redacted version in Easter 2007. They sort of hid all the important bit, let some nasty stuff  (e.g. about Wine) be revealed ans went off to holidays. Aug 16 09:53
neighborlee hm , so wine is one of the patent enfringements ? Aug 16 09:54
schestowitz I can find the details if you are interested. Either way, Bruce Lowry who let this out at the time quit the company. Many others quit as well for all I can tell and the worry is not just that Novell is dying but that it’s being replaced by Microsoft-sympathetics types and .Net programmers. Aug 16 09:54
neighborlee yeah Aug 16 09:55
neighborlee na no biggie Aug 16 09:55
neighborlee just t he fact that they did this without disclosure is  enough for me to know the answer ;) Aug 16 09:55
schestowitz The sponsored-by-Microsoft SourceForge.NET awards made Wine the most likely to get sued (or users sued). Surely, these awards were somehow Microsoft’s idea and plan to stir up panic. Aug 16 09:55
neighborlee weird,,first Ive heard of it ;)) Aug 16 09:56
schestowitz Wine may be offering better win32 compatibility than Windows Vista and Microsoft knows that it renders its cash cows redundant. No lock-in. Aug 16 09:56
neighborlee haha true enough ;)) Aug 16 09:56
neighborlee vista is just dain scary…my friend bought it from me ( whew ),,even though I warned him twice…I think he regrets it to this day LOL Aug 16 09:57
schestowitz For legacy applications like those which are required in Munich, Wine is a mint. Without it, a lot of migrations would not work. Hypervisors are costly if there’s Windows dependence. Aug 16 09:57
neighborlee hmm yeah Aug 16 09:58
schestowitz http://ubuntuforums.org/s… Aug 16 09:59
schestowitz Oops. This one is more relevant: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/no… Aug 16 09:59
neighborlee sweeet Aug 16 10:02
neighborlee and a few people confused, trying to say nope, its all still there..so clueless :)) Aug 16 10:02
neighborlee ah man, thx for posting that Aug 16 10:03
neighborlee they all like my flower hehe Aug 16 10:03
schestowitz Whoa!!! This is so fishy: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2790 Aug 16 10:07
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ZiggyFish hey Aug 16 10:08
schestowitz Quick background to this: the man makes proprietary software, he is a FORMER MICROSOFT PERSON and he took authority over GPLv2 and v3 things, even stole data. Aug 16 10:08
schestowitz Hey,ZiggyFish, watch this Aug 16 10:08
schestowitz http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-… Aug 16 10:08
schestowitz The “GPL is dangerous” Microsoft guy left at an interesting time. Aug 16 10:09
ZiggyFish I’m trying to run the new 8.10 alpha, but I keep getting kernal panics Aug 16 10:09
schestowitz When he says it’s unrelated, I doubt it. He could be BSing. Aug 16 10:09
schestowitz Tell the kernel to calm down then. Put some Prozac in it. :-D Aug 16 10:10
ZiggyFish mm, I think so too Aug 16 10:10
ZiggyFish lol Aug 16 10:10
ZiggyFish I’m trying to run it in vbox Aug 16 10:10
neighborlee thats what you get for using ubuntu infestation ;) Aug 16 10:10
neighborlee ha Aug 16 10:11
neighborlee if  I wasn’t so tired, I would be backing up important data and getting  fedora 10alpha installed..tomorrow am <!! ;) Aug 16 10:11
neighborlee I just can’t wait ;) Aug 16 10:12
ZiggyFish their’s a program I want that is meant to be working in this new ubuntu. One of my friends has a 3g modem, he wants to use, but he won’t install linux until _I_ can get it working Aug 16 10:12
neighborlee hm Aug 16 10:13
schestowitz Doug Levin (hypothetical: “But what if it’s not compliant? The GPL… it’s viral… it’s dangerous, why don’t you buy our non-Free software to keep the ‘threat’ away from your project?” Just to give you an idea of what these people are about…. Aug 16 10:13
ZiggyFish unless you can get network manager 0.7 running on fedora Aug 16 10:13
neighborlee schestowitz, LOL ;) Aug 16 10:13
neighborlee ZiggyFish, please tell me this isn’t dialup Aug 16 10:14
ZiggyFish it’s a 3g modem (so yes and no) Aug 16 10:14
neighborlee ZiggyFish, oh eeek Aug 16 10:14
neighborlee well Aug 16 10:14
schestowitz neighborlee: regarding “mono infestation”, some people told me that it’s bad when Ubuntu (or others) give no warning whatsoever if you install Mono, even through dependencies. Aug 16 10:14
neighborlee schestowitz, i agree Aug 16 10:14
neighborlee thats the least they can do until they d ecided to remove it ;0-0 Aug 16 10:15
schestowitz It’s so easy to naively lick “install” on something and then find Mono somewhere up the tree. It sticks to all sort of programs like Cheese. Aug 16 10:15
neighborlee heh Aug 16 10:15
ZiggyFish neighborlee: it’s a usb modem too Aug 16 10:16
schestowitz A friend of mine is a Fedora maintainer and he gave up on chances of keeping GNOME clean from Mono. Aug 16 10:16
neighborlee schestowitz, yup..gtk is also creeping into mono realm on their ‘about’ page Aug 16 10:17
neighborlee schestowitz, nothiing stopping any of us from forking, which I shall soon if this doesn’t end. Aug 16 10:17
neighborlee I hate to, but Im willing to. Aug 16 10:17
schestowitz Novell has too much momentum though. Aug 16 10:18
neighborlee Never underestimate the power of a good cause ;) Aug 16 10:18
schestowitz I bet on being able to keep KDE away from this trap. At least other people feel the same and they’ll watch KDE closely. Aug 16 10:18
neighborlee we can hope Aug 16 10:19
ZiggyFish neighborlee: are you a dev Aug 16 10:19
neighborlee nope, not yet anyway, but im likely to be one if things dont change. Aug 16 10:19
schestowitz According to Glyn (http://www.linuxjournal.com/cont… ), the days of Windows are gradually ending. Microsoft will become a licensing+services company. It treid hardware (XBox, Zune) and it failed badly. Windows mobile too was a money burner. Aug 16 10:19
ZiggyFish lol, I’m a dev Aug 16 10:19
neighborlee on what Aug 16 10:20
schestowitz I’m a developer myself. Aug 16 10:20
neighborlee schestowitz, hmm interesting..yeah poor M$ lol Aug 16 10:20
ZiggyFish ATM, I’m maintaining a tsunami warning system Aug 16 10:20
neighborlee well technically Im a developer, but not gnome wize is what I meant. Aug 16 10:20
schestowitz Seen the Economist article? Aug 16 10:20
neighborlee ZiggyFish, nice indeed, I hope you succede amazingly ;) Aug 16 10:21
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/13… Aug 16 10:21
ZiggyFish maybe we should reimplement cheese in another lang Aug 16 10:21
ZiggyFish neighborlee: thanks Aug 16 10:21
neighborlee ohhhhh speaking of water..I watched neat cable show about dolphins saving humans from sharks..it was truly stunning Aug 16 10:21
schestowitz They could product versions after XP, so there was little to keep money flowing other than bucket-shuffling, buybacks, acquisitions, etc. The margins eroded very badly for them because of GNU/Linux. Aug 16 10:22
schestowitz *couln’t produce, I mean Aug 16 10:22
neighborlee yup np Aug 16 10:22
neighborlee well, is it any wonder why they tried so hard to PUSH vista , even on their unsuspecting employees LOL!! Aug 16 10:22
neighborlee bad bad idea ;) Aug 16 10:22
schestowitz ZiggyFish: other programs already exist. The problem is that they don’t get packaged under the same priorities and Novell spills money into development with Mono (e.g. fspot, banshee). Aug 16 10:23
neighborlee what a nasty mess that is too…I followed much of that closely, and fspot ( and any mono app ) used a OLD mono lib in ubuntu for very long time,,terrible memory usage and crashy…but no one listened they just continued to push it even on warnings from other developers..blind trust ;) Aug 16 10:25
ZiggyFish just looking at the cheese source code, it’s C Aug 16 10:26
neighborlee I remember the bugzilla’s on them. Aug 16 10:26
schestowitz ZiggyFish: someone told me that when installed in Ubuntu, it pulls Mono along with it. Aug 16 10:27
ZiggyFish let me confirm that Aug 16 10:27
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02… Aug 16 10:27
schestowitz Cheese is mentioned in this post. Aug 16 10:27
schestowitz That’s just the problem. It’s enough for a C program to just /touch/ something that touched Mono in terms of function calls and voila! The whole thing is infected by association. Aug 16 10:28
ZiggyFish well looking at the dependencies, it doesn’t seem so (there is no dep on libmono or anything to do with mono) Aug 16 10:29
ZiggyFish tomboy and fspot do however Aug 16 10:31
schestowitz Oh, I see now: “f-spot for F-Spot export (optional)” Aug 16 10:31
schestowitz “Here is not an example of the dependencies, but of more peripheral incursion: http://www.gnome.org/projects/cheese/ Note the recommendation of f-spot.” Aug 16 10:32
neighborlee gez, more nonsense from gnome-M$ team ;) Aug 16 10:33
neighborlee start calling them GnoM$e Aug 16 10:34
ZiggyFish dependancies on cheese are Aug 16 10:34
schestowitz Well, it’s Novell. I’m not sure everyone in GNOME is fascinated with Mono at all. Aug 16 10:35
schestowitz Novell just seems to favour Mono because it sees it as a danger zone to other distros that wants to use the same GPL-licensed programs (with Novell copyrights). Aug 16 10:35
neighborlee If gnome developers really cared about foss and keeping it clean they likely would have avoided this mess long ago Aug 16 10:36
neighborlee so nope I just can’t buy it Aug 16 10:36
neighborlee or would have forked it long ago at least- Aug 16 10:37
ZiggyFish gconf2, gstreamer0.10-plugins-base, gstreamer0.10-plugins-good, gstreamer0.10-x, libart-2.0-2. libatk1.0-0, libbonobo2-0, libbonoboui2-0, libc6, libcairo2, libdbus-1-3, libbus-glib-1-2, libeboot1.2-9, libedataserver1.2-9, libgconf2-4, libglib2.0-0, libgnome2-0, libgnomecanvars2-0. libgnomeui-0, libgnomevfs2.0, libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-0, libstreamer0.10-0, libgtk2.0-0, libhal, libice6, liborbit2, libpango1.0-0, libpopt0 Aug 16 10:40
neighborlee friend showed me this in #lemmings, so I share this kewl thing here :) :: http://www.glumbert.com/media/coolwaterfall Aug 16 10:40
neighborlee talk about stunning ;) Aug 16 10:40
schestowitz Nice!! Aug 16 10:41
neighborlee :) Aug 16 10:41
schestowitz It’s too engaging. I forced myself to close it. Aug 16 10:42
neighborlee heh Aug 16 10:43
schestowitz Just spotted: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article… Aug 16 10:45
schestowitz I put the news in Digg and it made the front page earlier. Aug 16 10:46
ZiggyFish nice vid Aug 16 10:47
schestowitz “From a Microsoft perspective, Latitude ON represents a debacle comparable to the UMPC disaster. Microsoft led a big push to drive sales of Vista-based Ultra-Mobile PCs, all of which failed catastrophically in the market, rejected by users in favor of first Linux-, then XP-based subnotebooks.” Aug 16 10:47
schestowitz “Now, it’s happening again. Remember Windows Vista Sideshow? The feature was part of a broader effort by Microsoft to provide basic functionality on laptops while the main Windows OS was in sleep mode. A tiny screen on the lid would display the UI. Obviously that failed, and now partner Dell is delivering roughly similar but vastly superior functionality using Linux and other non-Microsoft software. “ Aug 16 10:48
neighborlee oh boy, M$ is getting bad news right and left.. Aug 16 10:48
neighborlee no wonder they try to infest linux haha Aug 16 10:49
neighborlee almost made it too Aug 16 10:49
ZiggyFish likes attract ;) Aug 16 10:49
neighborlee heh Aug 16 10:49
schestowitz It’s gratifying to live in an age where FOSS gains traction. The danger, however (the raison detre of BoycottNovell), are attempts to harm FOSS from the inside, like planting a bomb that will have it self destruct or its ownership (in the IP sense)be passed to Microsoft. Aug 16 10:50
neighborlee yup Aug 16 10:50
schestowitz Miguel wants Linux for himself (and for Microsoft/Novell). They use patents and exclusion (e.g. hypervisors) to crack GPL right down the middle. The FSF should start voicing its opposition more openly and furiously, IMHO. Aug 16 10:51
neighborlee well fedora livecd is a good start anyway…with any luck the others will follow, though I dont know really since ubuntu , and now mandriva are in non patent zones I guess ? ;( Aug 16 10:52
neighborlee legallyI have no idea how all that works Aug 16 10:53
neighborlee legally Aug 16 10:53
schestowitz Mandriva? Aug 16 10:53
neighborlee yup, they now have it. Aug 16 10:53
schestowitz Novell’s story goes like this: “Our Linux is better *AND* safer than your Linux. And you can’t have a copy because it requires royalties (to Microsoft/Novell)…” Aug 16 10:53
neighborlee yup you read that righgt Aug 16 10:53
schestowitz Have what? Mono? Aug 16 10:53
neighborlee yup Aug 16 10:53
schestowitz In GNOME only, right? Aug 16 10:54
neighborlee in gnome versoin anyway..no idea bout kde Aug 16 10:54
neighborlee faik yes Aug 16 10:54
schestowitz I use Mandriva with KDE Aug 16 10:54
neighborlee ah Aug 16 10:54
schestowitz But that’s a fair point, though. TBH, most GNOME distros come with Mono now. Jeff Waugh uses it as ‘proof’ that it’s OK. Aug 16 10:54
schestowitz The problem is, developer naively include it based on the hypothesis that “everyone else does”. Meanwhile they incorporate more dependencies while Richard Dale put some hooks for it in KDE (first seen over  a year ago). Aug 16 10:55
neighborlee The Latitude ON feature uses a low-power Intel Arm processor (just like the new Eee PCs), flash storage and Linux (SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10) separate from the laptop’s main CPU, hard drive and Windows OS. Aug 16 10:56
neighborlee oh great they u sed suse eek ;0- Aug 16 10:56
neighborlee no idea if that version has mono though..maybe not ,but still scary by  any standard ;) Aug 16 10:56
ZiggyFish I was thinking about switching to fedora Aug 16 10:56
schestowitz neighborlee: yes, I wrote about it. Aug 16 10:57
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/14/… Aug 16 10:57
neighborlee ahhh Aug 16 10:58
schestowitz That’s Mono on board, mind you. Some Windows ISV also tried to shove Mono into  LiMo (Linux phones). For all I know, Samsung pays Microsoft for Linux… probably its Mono/Linux phones. Aug 16 10:58
schestowitz With boiler room deals, you never know. They leave you to just speculte and then insult you with terms like “paranoid” and “conspiracy theorist”. Aug 16 10:58
neighborlee yup :) Aug 16 10:59
neighborlee thats ok, ever vigilent we remain ;0- Aug 16 10:59
neighborlee keepin em honest ! Aug 16 10:59
schestowitz I thought about contacting Dell before, but who to ask there….? Aug 16 11:00
neighborlee their coorporate headquarters as def. start of course Aug 16 11:02
neighborlee but hm, if they were in deal with M$/novel, I dont  plan on much of a reply ;) Aug 16 11:02
neighborlee time to rest here its a bit late…bbl take care all ;)) Aug 16 11:03
neighborlee lee over and out 0-0 Aug 16 11:03
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schestowitz No reply from IBM (except Chris Ward, as usual) about Lotus being proprietary and marketed as “open”: http://www.sutor.com/newsite/… Aug 16 11:07
schestowitz http://blogs.the451group.com/opensour… “For his part, Levin sees proprietary software not being displaced by open source, but vendors being forced to evolve…” Sounds like Microsoft. Aug 16 11:12
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schestowitz http://news.cnet.com/8601-13… “This is sad. The Wii was the one last gaming haven against the madness of ever-increasing violence and gore in gaming, which is desensitizing our youth to the horrors of evil and death and destruction. We see the results in the news almost every day.” Aug 16 12:06
schestowitz http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2… *Blech* Having done the Mono-Google Summer of Code, they now assist the Web get further encumbered by Microsoft .NET. Who pays the wage of these people? Aug 16 12:12
trmanco http://www.microturfs.org/ -> nice website Aug 16 12:43
trmanco … and nice article too -> http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/l… Aug 16 12:44
trmanco :) Aug 16 12:44
schestowitz Yes, there’s room for expansion. Aug 16 12:44
schestowitz Maybe we can build an index of shills at some stage. Shill-o-meter with an inputbox. Aug 16 12:44
trmanco lol Aug 16 12:45
trmanco cool Aug 16 12:45
MinceR that wii outrage is ridiculous Aug 16 12:45
trmanco shill-o-meter sounds great :) Aug 16 12:45
MinceR if he doesn’t want to see violence on his wii, he shouldn’t buy the damn game Aug 16 12:45
schestowitz Yes, but the point is different. It’s about what children are given. Aug 16 12:46
MinceR children are given what they parents buy for them Aug 16 13:15
schestowitz Yes, if they are under 10. Aug 16 13:15
MinceR or if they can’t afford them otherwise. :> Aug 16 13:16
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ZiggyFish lol, just reading the requirements for cheese Aug 16 14:24
schestowitz Found anything news? Aug 16 14:25
schestowitz *new Aug 16 14:25
ZiggyFish What are the Requirements?                                                                   GNOME 2.22               GStreamer 0.10               postr for Flickr export (optional)               f-spot for F-Spot export (optional)               a webcam               _____________a brain_______________ Aug 16 14:25
schestowitz Yes, that’s the snag. Aug 16 14:25
ZiggyFish lol Aug 16 14:26
ZiggyFish you need a brain to use cheese, that means half of the population can’t use it Aug 16 14:27
MinceR only half? Aug 16 14:28
ZiggyFish lol Aug 16 14:28
ZiggyFish anyway it’s 11:40 here, going to bed, c ya Aug 16 14:34
schestowitz I’ve just posted http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/… and I hope it’ll wake some people up already. Aug 16 14:34
alfauros you are one busy man, i’m starting to suspect that boycotnovell is you day job :) Aug 16 14:35
*ZiggyFish thinks the same Aug 16 14:36
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pcole Vaporware announcement “Windows 7 details to be released”. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/te… Aug 16 15:56
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schestowitz Thanks, seen it and will post about it. Aug 16 15:58
schestowitz Mary Jo Foley made fun of this latest hype burst. Aug 16 15:58
anivar schestowitz: Planning a public protest in Bangalore on swpat http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Say_No_To_… Aug 16 15:59
schestowitz Thanks, I noticed that Groklaw has it up too. Aug 16 16:01
schestowitz I mentioned it 2 days ago. Aug 16 16:01
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/assor… Aug 16 16:01
anivar i found it. but it was just a planning meeting Aug 16 16:02
anivar Not a protest Aug 16 16:02
schestowitz Oh! Aug 16 16:02
anivar Protest is on next saturday Aug 16 16:02
anivar I started a facebook page too Aug 16 16:03
anivar http://www.new.facebook.com/eve… (not public) Aug 16 16:03
schestowitz I’ll give that a mention. Aug 16 16:04
*schestowitz away for a few hours. Aug 16 16:06
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_Doug :P Aug 16 17:28
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os4ever didnt microsoft “buy” novell just to get miguel deicaza Aug 16 18:36
schestowitz Novell bought Ximian for a “Red Carpet”, according to its ececutive/s. Aug 16 18:37
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schestowitz *Executives. Aug 16 18:37
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schestowitz Hi Aug 16 18:38
os4ever Hi Aug 16 18:38
schestowitz Have you logged in before? Aug 16 18:39
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twitter Good morning.  Catching up.  Voting machines, funny. Mono code infection … isn’t it funny how the Munchkins used to tell people to beware of GPL “cancer” and to quarantine GPL code along with people who used it?  Typical M$ hypocrisy.  Waterfall – flash. … Aug 16 19:17
schestowitz I’m catching up with Novell this afternoon. Not much for SUSE recently… Aug 16 19:20
twitter We’ve had the Lattitude On is nice, but I’d like to see it with Ubuntu instead of Vista. Aug 16 19:20
schestowitz http://digg.com/linux_unix/Dell_int… (Some troll comments there) Aug 16 19:20
schestowitz Here is a “Linux 1%”  troll: http://digg.com/linux_unix/15_to_25… Aug 16 19:21
schestowitz The second troll here is Gary Steart with libel. I suspect the first is his sockpuppet because he went around the Web picking photos of mine and he makes the same jokes: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Start_… Aug 16 19:23
twitter Do any of those 10 laptops have an OS choice? Aug 16 19:35
schestowitz I don’t know. Might be… it’s a really early stage and more of an announcement rather than a  product. I saw it coming about 6 months ago because a Dell strategist there clues and Michael Larabel leaked rumours a couple of months ago. H-P might do this too, but the clues about the are fewer. NVidia is supposed to deliver a biggie this month. Aug 16 19:37
twitter Dell’s search engine blows.  It finds ubuntu, some XPS but then a bunch of spare parts.  Someone looking for a laptop with GNU/Linux is going to run away screaming. Aug 16 19:41
twitter “Linux laptops” finds no such animal. Aug 16 19:41
pcole That’s happened before at dell Aug 16 19:41
schestowitz Yes, also in the UK. Aug 16 19:44
twitter probably why I stick to used thinkpads. Aug 16 19:44
schestowitz I did a bit of a tour a while ago (they say that 3% of the PCs in the UK now come with GNU/Linux preinstalled): http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/200… Aug 16 19:45
twitter :) amazing that people find it. Aug 16 19:45
MinceR why used thinkpads? why not new thinkpads? Aug 16 19:45
schestowitz To find the Linux desktops at Dell I needed to search for Ubuntu or Linux, but it’s still a case of digging rather than navigating. Aug 16 19:45
twitter You found one, not me. Aug 16 19:46
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twitter Used thinkpads cost a lot less than new ones. Aug 16 19:46
MinceR ic Aug 16 19:47
schestowitz Thinkpads are ugly :-D Aug 16 19:47
twitter One day, when I’m rich and famous, I might buy a new laptop.  I expect to see better deals in UMPCs before that happens. Aug 16 19:47
schestowitz I had a 400MHz laptop between 1999 and 2005. I actually used such a machine with just 32MB of RAM until 2005. Aug 16 19:48
pcole The last laptop I bought was a T30 Aug 16 19:48
twitter Laptops look about as good as their screen and software.  I don’t see the rest of it often. Aug 16 19:49
twitter Can’t live without track point. Aug 16 19:49
pcole Installed SIDUX on T30 and never looked back. Aug 16 19:49
twitter My last laptop was an X30 which I got two or three years ago.  It runs Debian well, but the front bezel broke after a couple of hard falls.  It is still all I need.  One day, I’ll buy a new bezel. Aug 16 19:51
schestowitz The eWeek people seem to be keen on Debian+Thikpads. Aug 16 19:51
twitter RMS had one but said he was moving to OLPC. Aug 16 19:52
twitter Alan Cox had his 600 burst into flames.  My 600 is doing better than that.  233 MHz, 256MB, it’s not so fast but it has a great screen. Aug 16 19:53
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twitter good keyboard and good feel, but heavy next to the X30. Aug 16 19:53
twitter My 600 is about 10 years old.  I only replaced it because work gave me gigs of data to deal with. Aug 16 19:56
pcole That’s all I do right now, is play on the benevolence of the company and use their throwaways. Aug 16 19:57
twitter I got a really beat T23 before the X30, but it was so broken mechanically that it would lose it’s mind when I moved it.  I think it came from a high school program, so it was 3rd hand. Aug 16 19:58
pcole I will not buy any machine with windows, suse, or xandros preinstalled. Aug 16 19:58
twitter The X30 had XP.  That did not last long. Aug 16 19:59
twitter brb Aug 16 19:59
twitter I did a big upgrade (400MB) of lenny and need to restart X. Aug 16 20:00
twitter I have a few other things to do to … Aug 16 20:00
twitter later Aug 16 20:00
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schestowitz At least Linspire is out of sight now. Less trouble to keep track of… Aug 16 20:03
MinceR 205024 <@schestowitz> Thinkpads are ugly :-D Aug 16 20:08
MinceR no u Aug 16 20:08
trmanco schestowitz: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php… -> nice quote you caught there Aug 16 20:08
trmanco :) Aug 16 20:08
schestowitz MinceR: they are very durable though. Maybe IBM gave them away to Lenovo because they harmed its *image*. Aug 16 20:10
schestowitz trmanco: it’s true. Did you see the article I wrote about it? Aug 16 20:10
trmanco yes indeed Aug 16 20:10
MinceR i doubt IBM cares about its image that much Aug 16 20:10
trmanco :) Aug 16 20:10
trmanco loved it Aug 16 20:11
MinceR or that thinkpads would harm it Aug 16 20:11
trmanco schestowitz: don’t mind if I digg it do you? Aug 16 20:11
schestowitz Oh, please do. Aug 16 20:11
trmanco ok, just one sec… Aug 16 20:12
trmanco http://digg.com/linux_unix/Why_Micros… Aug 16 20:15
trmanco done :) Aug 16 20:15
schestowitz :-)) Aug 16 20:17
schestowitz Thanks! Aug 16 20:17
schestowitz I’ve noticed two new comments in http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_… Aug 16 20:18
trmanco no problem Aug 16 20:18
trmanco checking the comments :) Aug 16 20:18
schestowitz The Linux Today people are hard to fool. There are hardly eny trolls there, either. It’s one of the sites where almost nobody trusts Novell. Aug 16 20:19
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trmanco I’ve seen Jose_X as commented on one of your blog posts, about 3 times in a row Aug 16 20:22
trmanco but I don’t get him :| Aug 16 20:22
schestowitz He’s quite insightful. He likes some terms like monopolyware and monopolysoft. Aug 16 20:23
schestowitz Hmmmm… Jose has just left 4 comments in BN.com. I’m reading them right now. Aug 16 20:27
trmanco 5 digg in 12 minutes :) Aug 16 20:27
trmanco well 4 … Aug 16 20:28
schestowitz Heh. They seem receptive to this site in Digg. I always see it getting many Diggs there very fast (compared to other stuff that’s more important). Aug 16 20:31
trmanco cool then Aug 16 20:32
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schestowitz Hm… that’s concerning: http://www.infowars.net/artic… Aug 16 21:48
twitter1 Ick, an autotroll http://www.pakin.org/complaint Aug 16 21:53
schestowitz Nice http://www.pakin.org/complaint?title=Mr… Aug 16 21:55
twitter1 saw that Lessig article, things can and will get worse.  Richard Clark has been making stupid noises for a long time http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/183721 Aug 16 21:57
twitter1 The bit about a false flag operation is new but predictable. Aug 16 21:58
schestowitz I thought it had already started. I complain a lot about this too. It’s part of the same fight (FOSS vs digital slavery) Aug 16 21:58
twitter1 It has always been on but it will get worse http://ipower.ning.com/netneutrality2 Aug 16 22:02
schestowitz Yes, it’s easier to identify the crooks. ACTA is indirectly related. Aug 16 22:03
schestowitz BTW, be careful of OStatic. They carry on with the “OSS is Mac and Windows” message (seen here http://ostatic.com/170876-blog/f… ) and the man on top was caught astroturfing for Microsoft. Aug 16 22:04
twitter1 ACTA is a slavery “harmonizing” act.  There’s been a lot of this lately. Aug 16 22:04
schestowitz McCreevy, that tosser, is behind a lot of that. At least 3 such things. Aug 16 22:05
schestowitz People should really find out who he dines with and track that bank account or something. He sells EU to the US… Aug 16 22:05
twitter1 The “breaking down the stovepipes” stuff was going on before 911 provided fear and excusses. Aug 16 22:06
twitter1 Everyone is being sold to the mega corps. Aug 16 22:06
schestowitz And this can be combated how? Other than street protests or outings of corrupt people for scrutiny? Aug 16 22:07
twitter1 The US sold itself first though. Aug 16 22:07
schestowitz It’s the same in the UK. I have two new links about it. Will post them tonight. Aug 16 22:08
twitter1 Knowledge and freedom are the only answers to tyranny, that’s why the megacorps are moving so fast to shut down the internet and free software.  We are still, theoretically, democracies that can act. Aug 16 22:10
schestowitz Hehe. Well, they took Slashdot away from you, didn’t they? Aug 16 22:11
twitter1 The inordinate attention paid to smearing advocates of freedom is good evidence the megacorps are running scared. Aug 16 22:11
schestowitz In an interview yesterday I shared my experiences on the abuse in Digg, which I consider far more serious than the gaming. Aug 16 22:12
twitter1 Slashdot is not lost to anyone. Aug 16 22:12
twitter1 Gaming is why you are abused.  It’s propaganda with a purpose. Aug 16 22:12
schestowitz Digg is now a high-flyer with Google and the big money. They want users, ads, CON-tent… never mind the abuse in the ‘community’ (ants) Aug 16 22:12
twitter1 Google wants to apply technical solutions to problems.  They understand that their system must work automatically if it is to succeed. Aug 16 22:13
schestowitz Well, they censor in China… for cash. Aug 16 22:14
twitter1 All business with China is unethical. Aug 16 22:15
schestowitz I guess they could argue that if they didn’t do it, others would (and grab the market share… Baidu comes to mind), but there was a hearing with the Big 3 in the high court 2 years ago. Corruption seems acceptable when there’s money on the table. That’s just repulsive. Aug 16 22:15
twitter1 The problem is that trade is allowed in the first place.  People who trade with slave labor ruin themselves. Aug 16 22:16
twitter1 why am I twitter1? Aug 16 22:16
schestowitz I don’t know. Wondered this myself… Aug 16 22:17
schestowitz Did you see what RMS said about trade with Cuba last week? Aug 16 22:17
trmanco your irc client is crazy :P Aug 16 22:17
twitter1 Pidgin’s problem is it’s operator. Aug 16 22:18
twitter1 I saw that article you linked up but did not really read it. Aug 16 22:18
twitter1 I imagine RMS said the US position was crazy. Aug 16 22:19
schestowitz Besides, some could argue that doing business with the Bush Admin is also unethical. It harbours neo-imperialists and offers them protection in exchange for money. In turn, they  exploit foreign countries. Aug 16 22:19
twitter1 Something about the difference between US relations with China and Cuba and N. Korea. Aug 16 22:19
schestowitz Or… slaughter many people by going to unnecessary wars. Aug 16 22:20
twitter1 This is true.  There are impeachment articles pending. Aug 16 22:20
schestowitz twitter1: no, he said they should only focus on social issues. He escaped that question about embargo, but he gave a brilliant answer. Aug 16 22:20
twitter1 I should have read it but I did not trust Infoworld, or whatever it was, to get it right.  The sudden focus on RMS from the Wintel press looks like an attempt to smear RMS as a radical. Aug 16 22:22
twitter1 RMS has been all over the world, why only pay attention when he’s in Cuba? Aug 16 22:23
schestowitz Yes,, they sort of smeared him. Aug 16 22:24
schestowitz There was the interview (from Tenet, IIRC), but it was only a  blog. Aug 16 22:24
twitter1 Focusing on social issues is a good idea anywhere.  These are where your rights are stolen. Aug 16 22:25
twitter1 gotta run, I’ll be back. Aug 16 22:25
schestowitz He then made an article which, IMHO, demonised Stallman. You know the sort of people who concentrate on radicalism, appearance and tinfoil hats rather than the /KEY/ message… Aug 16 22:25
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schestowitz Hi, CrimsonJupiter. Aug 16 22:47
CrimsonJupiter Hi Aug 16 22:48
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schestowitz kentma: get a load of this: http://www.infowars.net/articles/au… Aug 16 22:52
trmanco http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/0… Aug 16 23:03
schestowitz Yes, I spotted this. He quotes 4%, which is what I put in the front page of Digg (highlighting a paragraph from Yahoo). :-) Aug 16 23:05
trmanco good Aug 16 23:06
trmanco but I still think Linux has more marketshare Aug 16 23:06
trmanco then just the 4% Aug 16 23:06
schestowitz See http://groups.google.com/group/c… Aug 16 23:07
*kentma looks Aug 16 23:07
schestowitz And desktop market share is not all. Desktop processors only make up about 2% of the overall picture. Aug 16 23:07
*kentma is busy typing french vocab into a new testing script for the kids. Have bitten the bullet, and am now using mysql and a ‘c’ test script… Aug 16 23:08
schestowitz You get them to grok mysql at that age? What are you doing!?!?!1111 Aug 16 23:08
kentma hehe no – I’m writing the mysql stuff, they just have to learn the french & the spanish :-) Aug 16 23:09
trmanco Wow -> According to our statistics, 96.4% of computer users are running Linux. Whoa! Aug 16 23:09
kentma trmanco: which users would they be? Aug 16 23:10
schestowitz It all depends on definitons. Microsoft loves talking about ‘desktop’ as ‘computer’ Aug 16 23:10
trmanco all Aug 16 23:11
kentma well, I refer you to the debate I recently had on cola wrt Desktop. Aug 16 23:11
trmanco servers, desktops, all kinds of devices and gadgets Aug 16 23:11
schestowitz According to Live.com visitors and servers, maybe everything is Microsoft. But that’s a /narrow/ definition. Aug 16 23:11
kentma you don’t have to convince me :-) Aug 16 23:11
trmanco my router is running linux, these little gadgets aren’t counting Aug 16 23:11
schestowitz According to boycottnovell.com logs, there are more GNU/Linux users out there than Windows users. :-) Aug 16 23:11
trmanco hmm Aug 16 23:12
kentma trmanco: I have a pair of wrt54gls which run white-russian.  My house is full of linux things :-) Aug 16 23:12
kentma schestowitz: aha – of course hehe Aug 16 23:12
schestowitz Well, it’s true. Aug 16 23:12
trmanco thats good :) Aug 16 23:12
schestowitz Let me check again. Aug 16 23:12
schestowitz This month it’s 42.7 % for GNU/Linux and 42.5 % for Windows. Close race. Aug 16 23:13
trmanco it depends on the website, more people using Linux will go to BN just to see the latest articles about microsoft’s monopoly and corruption Aug 16 23:14
schestowitz Macs at 4.3 %. *Chuckles* Aug 16 23:14
kentma schestowitz: you should publish those numbers in cola every week as a news item … it would certainly wind up the trolls. Aug 16 23:14
trmanco I don’t think a windows fanboy would even read the title of BN, IMHO Aug 16 23:14
schestowitz trmanco: the web ;surveys’ only weigh sites that support an assertion of /value/ Aug 16 23:14
trmanco thats true Aug 16 23:15
trmanco can’t argue with that Aug 16 23:15
schestowitz According to Microsoft (a coiuple of years ago), only 0.2% (or 2%) of all computers had malware. Aug 16 23:15
schestowitz The real number is somewhere around 70% I believe… Aug 16 23:16
kentma anybody know what dead key to use for a cydilla? Aug 16 23:16
trmanco :) Aug 16 23:16
trmanco windoze zombies Aug 16 23:16
kentma schestowitz: the 1984 internet thing has been on the cards for so long, it’s amazing.  Governments deeply dislike anonymous communications – it annoys me intensely that our trolls are probably contributing massively to this. Aug 16 23:18
kentma or even unfettered comms, for that matter. Aug 16 23:19
schestowitz Most GNU/Linux users who visit BoycottNovell use SUSE (so far this month). Aug 16 23:19
trmanco :| Aug 16 23:19
trmanco thats not good Aug 16 23:20
kentma ah, got it – cydilla key is = Aug 16 23:20
schestowitz That’s the Novell people.. it’s expected. Aug 16 23:20
trmanco well yes Aug 16 23:20
trmanco what about browsers? Aug 16 23:20
trmanco got any info on that? Aug 16 23:20
schestowitz Mandriva, Debian, Ubuntu and Fedora are almost equal. SUSE is just a little ahead. Aug 16 23:20
schestowitz trmanco: I can do a post about it (with pictures). Aug 16 23:21
trmanco good, I will stay tunned Aug 16 23:21
trmanco tuned* Aug 16 23:21
schestowitz But there was something similar before. Aug 16 23:21
schestowitz It gives the impression that there’s tracking although the logs are flushed after graphs are plotted. Aug 16 23:22
MinceR how do you know the distro of a visitor? Aug 16 23:24
MinceR revealing version numbers? Aug 16 23:24
schestowitz No, not quite. The thing is, many are not identified at all. Many are unspecified. Aug 16 23:25
schestowitz I wanted to check versions of Konqy to see if KDE4 adoption is rising fast, but AWStats doesn’t do version breakdown of the ‘lesser-known’ Web browsers. Aug 16 23:26
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 16 23:41
schestowitz It looks like CompiterWorld is daemonising RMS again: http://computerworld.co.nz/news.n… (watch how they cut the video) Aug 16 23:48
kentma schestowitz: it’s a standard technique.  it does seem to work on stupid people, though. Aug 16 23:50
schestowitz Please watch it. It’s disgusting. This Intelsoft press is making his look like a dangerous man. Aug 16 23:50
schestowitz *him Aug 16 23:50
kentma he is a dangerous man, though, as is Mr Lessig. Aug 16 23:52
schestowitz This is bad. Look how they sliced the video. They present it as though he’s a dangerous man while cutting/editing out his rationale. Aug 16 23:53
schestowitz Yes, Lessig too. He’s exposing some crooks in government these days. He could get hurt for it. Aug 16 23:54
kentma there are very big guns out for both of them, I’m sure. Aug 16 23:58
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