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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 30th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:12 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Enter the IRC channel now

*jose (n=jose@adsl-233-171-198.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 30 00:19
jose hello…. Aug 30 00:20
jose Is this a joke? http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/29/mono… Aug 30 00:20
jose schestowitz, is the blog post about tomboy a joke? Aug 30 00:22
MinceR while it reads like a joke, i suspect it has a base in reality Aug 30 00:23
schestowitz It’s sarcastic in nature, but it’s based on true fcts. Aug 30 00:27
jose I won’t go into details, but I feel asleep for a few hours and it appears I awoke in the twilight zone.. btw, novell was up today 7%. The stock market is funny that way, but I do worry about ms supporting novl at redhat’s expense for some time to come. the stock might be reflecting this or not at all since the rise might draw in buyers so that those holding dump some more shares Aug 30 00:33
jose typo: feel -> fell Aug 30 00:33
schestowitz jose: Novell is buying its own stock. Aug 30 00:37
jose hmm Aug 30 00:37
schestowitz The same goes for Microsoft. Their share value says too little. Aug 30 00:37
jose for those that have never read this nugget called microsoft financial pyramid summary (first link on page) http://billparish.wordpress.com/2… Aug 30 00:45
schestowitz See this one also: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… Aug 30 00:46
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jose i think it was today’s newspapers that had a story about some stock brokerage firm (merryllinch?) that had lost in one quarter 1/4 of the profits they had made to date since the company was founded (let me verify this)… Aug 30 00:56
jose .. it reminds me of how microsoft and others go back and adjust past figures over time. Aug 30 00:57
jose what a scam Aug 30 00:57
jose .. when the result is so large as it has been at times. Aug 30 00:57
jose watch financial reporting and “analysts”, eg, use the excuse of the company beating estimates by a single penny as an excuse for the stock to rise. Aug 30 00:58
jose .. even when the company is reporting perhaps huge losses.. Aug 30 00:59
jose ..”oh, the market was already expecting huge losses.. so this is a positive surprise” Aug 30 00:59
jose my arse Aug 30 00:59
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jose look at this chart Aug 30 01:00
jose http://finance.yahoo.com/… Aug 30 01:00
jose see how as the stock was dropping below $6 at the beginning of this month the volume was higher than normal, in particular, the days before and during the rise showed high volume Aug 30 01:02
schestowitz jose: the market is a mess. Lying is the ‘standard’ and companies are judged by /how much/ they lie to investors Aug 30 01:03
schestowitz The SEC isn’t doing its job properly. It failed to see what was happening to SCO almost 2 years ago and it let Microsoft be despite allegations of fraud. Novell admits cooking the books, yet the SEC let it be a year ago. Aug 30 01:03
jose it may not appear like much but the big money buying this stock doesn’t like to choke on this garbage.. of course, i worry that novl might actually be on the up since msft is much larger and can fund this garbage Aug 30 01:04
jose msft can fuel huge earnings growth for scox and a bunch more companies if they had something to gain.. Aug 30 01:04
schestowitz jose, Novell started buybacks about 2 months ago. Aug 30 01:04
jose the price was at low Aug 30 01:04
schestowitz When looking at the stock, bear in mind that Novell plays a sort of pump-n-dump with NOVL. Aug 30 01:05
schestowitz Microsoft was caught inside-trading, but the SEC didn’t investigate, despite reports. Aug 30 01:05
jose i think microsoft books money that is due them (legit) but if enough time passes and they don’t get paid (eg, if recession leads many account receivables to spoil), then msft has to write down all the loses Aug 30 01:07
jose loses -> losses Aug 30 01:07
jose this may already be happening to a large extent Aug 30 01:07
jose oh Aug 30 01:07
jose the us is thinking of changin away from GAP reporting to the more lenient one used worldwide Aug 30 01:08
jose i think this too was in today’s papers Aug 30 01:08
jose bill parish says gap is weak as is Aug 30 01:08
jose and prefers the stronger one.. whose name doesn’t come to mind right now Aug 30 01:09
jose for those that don’t know, you can count as legitimate revenues today money that is owed to you today even if you don’t get paid until much later (eg, your customer buys from you on credit from you) Aug 30 01:10
jose it’s easy to fabricate money.. eg, dell can just buy a bunch of air (“licenses”) from Microsoft and ms can book the earnings immediately.. later on dell has to get the money from you and me to pay back ms Aug 30 01:12
jose it’s an open ended cycle though because people can all just keep buying on credit Aug 30 01:13
jose this is tied in to how credit is regulated by the us gov Aug 30 01:13
jose this is why it appears that every so many years there is some type of bank fraud explosion that is bailed out by tax payers.. Aug 30 01:14
jose i am approximating this a good deal Aug 30 01:14
jose the point is that over time, paper money is used to make the rich richer.. even when we all make more, inflation makes most of us poorer Aug 30 01:15
jose once the most wealthy (who have the inside track and get favorable treatment from each other)… Aug 30 01:15
jose are superwealthy ..in paper money Aug 30 01:16
jose then it’s up to them to convert that into tangibles Aug 30 01:16
jose like real estate, minerals, etc Aug 30 01:16
jose real estate, gold, … and even us treasuries while the gov remains strong.. Aug 30 01:17
jose maintain their relative value no matter what inflation is like Aug 30 01:17
jose gold works everywhere.. so gates wants to convert his paper billions into real assets or else they will go poof at some point in time. Aug 30 01:17
jose housing Aug 30 01:18
jose prices will drop to force or trick people into selling .. and the dollar will also weaken .. until those who move large volumes of money are satisfied that they have bought back their land Aug 30 01:19
schestowitz I have some analysis of MSFT tricks. Aug 30 01:19
jose ok, i’ll stop Aug 30 01:19
jose bill parish has lots of stuff, too Aug 30 01:19
schestowitz One thing they do is move the money between buckets. Aug 30 01:19
schestowitz There are also loans. Aug 30 01:20
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schestowitz It’s interesting (it’s’ catching up now). Remember that Microsoft makes a lot of money in the west, but in most of the world it gets nothing. Aug 30 01:21
schestowitz The vast majority of the world is using illegal copies, which Microsoft is actually happy about (better to ‘steal’ MS software than to use something else). Aug 30 01:22
jose “Shortly thereafter, Microsoft and Pancerzewski settled out of court. Terms of the agreement were sealed, but one source who claims familiarity with the case says that Microsoft paid Pancerzewski $4 million.” $4 million seems like so little Aug 30 01:24
jose sorry, here is the link for the quote http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/… Aug 30 01:27
schestowitz For someone who could expose billions inn corruption — yes. Aug 30 01:27
jose the bill parish piece mentioned earlier explains some more the details of the stock options problem. Aug 30 01:32
jose like the credit thing just mentioned, you pay your bills today on money that may or may not be there tomorrow Aug 30 01:32
jose the trick is to get out and not be left holding the hot potato.. Aug 30 01:32
schestowitz Enron is small potatoes, eh? Aug 30 01:32
jose by giving away stock options instead of stock to employees… Aug 30 01:32
jose lol.. Aug 30 01:32
jose ..the employees can’t sell ahead of gates and friends. Aug 30 01:33
schestowitz Gates sold off MSFT over time. Aug 30 01:33
jose that’s the only way Aug 30 01:33
schestowitz Billions of it. I can find a post about it. Aug 30 01:33
jose i’ll get you a link to something interesting on the gates foundation Aug 30 01:33
schestowitz http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.l…   : SCROLL DOWN a bit. Aug 30 01:34
jose http://www.billparish.com/2004022… Aug 30 01:35
schestowitz I wrote about the use of the Gates Fundation [sic] as well. Aug 30 01:35
jose wrt the link i just posted: “Microsoft Foundation Liquidates all Shares of Microsoft” Aug 30 01:35
schestowitz It’s very interesting how much of a bank account or ‘pet charity’ it hs become. Aug 30 01:35
schestowitz Exempt from tax too, so Warren joined it. Aug 30 01:35
jose with all that money they can have small companies look super impressive and then go public while they unload stock at many times earnings multiple Aug 30 01:36
jose so msft gives 100 million over a few years.. this money was gradually increased, eg, 1 million year 1 2 milllion year 2 4 million year 3 etc Aug 30 01:37
jose this company’s fast earnings growth might lead to a p/e of 100 Aug 30 01:38
jose thus in it’s final year, the company takes in say 30 million but it’s stock would be valued at 30*100 = 3billion Aug 30 01:38
jose meanwhile gates unloads on say 1.5 of those billions (if owns 50%) while msft invested just 100 to 200 million Aug 30 01:39
jose of course, wall street is not stupid.. sometimes after ipo’s stock drop for a reason for a while before rebounding.. if the company is a legitimate one Aug 30 01:39
jose but the point is that through enough deception, derivatives, twisted nda agreements, etc.. you can convert modest cash into much larger paper money.. Aug 30 01:40
jose it won’t work always, but in real life companies make products so msft won’t be funding everything but will simply help tip the scales Aug 30 01:40
schestowitz Interesting. I wonder why Paul Allen left. Aug 30 01:41
jose yup Aug 30 01:41
schestowitz Other than Ballmer and Gates talking behind his back about who gets his money if/when he dies (he had an illness) Aug 30 01:42
jose billparish talks at times of how paul has used outside companies to help msft.. Aug 30 01:42
jose i don’t track billparish, but have read various of his papers in the past Aug 30 01:42
schestowitz I can imagine. Aug 30 01:42
schestowitz Do you know how many companies Allen is involved in? Aug 30 01:42
jose i think you mentioned a big one recently.. there is also ticketmaster Aug 30 01:43
jose which is a monopoly Aug 30 01:43
jose or so i heard Aug 30 01:43
schestowitz All around the board: Wi-Fi, CNET (media), Microsoft… I can’t  recall…. Gates too has investments in oil companies,  media companies, Corbis. Aug 30 01:43
jose they deserve jail Aug 30 01:43
schestowitz Well, duh. Aug 30 01:44
schestowitz But if you say this in Slashdot, you’ll get attacked by a mob of shills. Aug 30 01:44
schestowitz That aside, dare to question the gates Foundation and see what you get. Aug 30 01:44
schestowitz Over the past 3 years I have criticised it in about 100 posts. Aug 30 01:44
MinceR what if you do it on digg? Aug 30 01:45
schestowitz Nothing else that I write about begs for as many angry attacks from trolls. Aug 30 01:45
MinceR does the counter overflow from negative to positive? :> Aug 30 01:45
schestowitz Digg too. Aug 30 01:45
schestowitz Digg has shills. Aug 30 01:45
schestowitz For a fact. Aug 30 01:45
schestowitz The same people who have shilled in USENET since the 90s are already there (for a fact). Aug 30 01:45
jose consider quoting from billparish after you look things over.. see link above Aug 30 01:45
jose derivatives Aug 30 01:46
schestowitz MinceR: they link to each other and gang up for peer validation (among trolls) Aug 30 01:46
schestowitz I sent him an E-mail some months ago and he wrote back. Aug 30 01:47
jose whom? Aug 30 01:47
schestowitz If people haven’t the patience to read his posts, then all I can do is quote snippets. Aug 30 01:47
jose bp? Aug 30 01:47
schestowitz See for example:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07… (QUOTES at the bottom) Aug 30 01:47
schestowitz Yes. Aug 30 01:48
jose k Aug 30 01:48
jose the b&M gates foundation was created out of msft stock (gates own donation) and they unloaded all of this behinds the scenes tax free.. gates could not have pulled that off, but the foundation could/did Aug 30 01:51
jose that money then can be used to prop up other businesses, including ms through donations that are .. Aug 30 01:51
jose earmarked or at least very likely to get returned as sales for companies gates and friends own.. including biomed and msft Aug 30 01:52
jose it’s sickening and should lead to jail time if justice was ever served Aug 30 01:52
jose “If foundations like the Gates foundations receive tax-exempt treatment for security sales, they should be required to be fully disclosed.  Only then will the free market system work.  Linux users in particular should be pressing for such disclosures because only then will the playing field be level.  Thinking that a more superior product will prevail in such an environment is simply naive.” Aug 30 01:53
jose http://www.billparish.com/20040223pers… Aug 30 01:53
schestowitz Well, it’s a bribery fund too. Aug 30 01:54
jose bribery right Aug 30 01:54
schestowitz When I say bribery I don’t mean under-the-table deals Aug 30 01:54
schestowitz Like Lessig said… Aug 30 01:54
schestowitz It’s done in sophtsicated ways Aug 30 01:54
jose the prob is that the market finds out about this (many have known forever likley).. Aug 30 01:55
schestowitz Gates gives fonations of s/w and h/w to nations that ponder moving to GNU/Linux. Aug 30 01:55
jose and they love it… milk ma and pa… why would we snitch.. Aug 30 01:55
schestowitz (donations Aug 30 01:55
schestowitz It’s already happening. Aug 30 01:55
jose so everyone participates and they all won’t go to jail naturally Aug 30 01:55
jose yes, it’s done in sophisticated ways .. as lessig said Aug 30 01:55
schestowitz it’s harder to accuse people in suits and flashy logos. Aug 30 01:56
schestowitz That said, not account here is Microsoft political manipulation which I last posted about this morning (I don’t know if you follow the Web site) Aug 30 01:56
jose recently i have looked at it much more, but not every day, no Aug 30 01:57
schestowitz Added to that are AstroTurfing activities that come through very many agencies that Microsoft hires. That’s a fact. It also has fake ‘journalists’ planting stories (proven). Aug 30 01:57
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jose people might pay attention if the economy takes a dump.. then they will want heads to roll so they might pay attention even if they don’t understand or truly believe.. but then, if you don’t understand, you can be unconvinced and led to feel you are responsible wholly for your job loss and state of affairs Aug 30 01:58
jose the prob is that if “everyone” in power participates or if deals are done and deleted then not much will happen Aug 30 01:59
schestowitz This isn’t just Microsoft. Aug 30 02:00
jose and if americans don’t do it, others in other countries will…illusion or rather the faith and trust in money.. Aug 30 02:00
jose will cause the “mislead” nations to pull ahead. Aug 30 02:00
schestowitz I am not an expert in many other areas, but a friend of mine from the gym studies such things too and he reckons that the real estate and loans industry plays a similar game Aug 30 02:00
jose so you sort of have to let things be.. well, i don’t know but maybe Aug 30 02:00
schestowitz They pass the burden and debt downstream. They have the power to do so. Aug 30 02:01
jose it’s about creating financial instruments that others will be willing to get behind… Aug 30 02:02
jose over time laws are passed to prevent those tactics that inevitably result in disaster and little actual gains (eg, pyramid schemes) Aug 30 02:03
jose but people keep devising these things.. and with sophisticated computer programs, they can make them very complicated to analyze Aug 30 02:03
jose if I pay you a hocko will you do X for me.. this will work if people trust hocko’s Aug 30 02:04
jose the system works when we all gain from each others’s contributions Aug 30 02:04
schestowitz Yes, that’s how things are run and all we have is therefore circumstantial evidence. Aug 30 02:04
jose no matter hocko or msft stock Aug 30 02:05
schestowitz The lobbying industry is measured in $billions, so it’s a shadowy thing with lots of impact. Aug 30 02:05
jose lobby money, uh Aug 30 02:05
schestowitz CIO.com: “Did you know that there are more than 34,750 registered lobbyists in Washington, D.C., for just 435 representatives and 100 senators? That’s 64 lobbyists for each congressperson.” Aug 30 02:05
jose if you aren’t reasonable, senator, then we’ll just have to support someoen taht will be Aug 30 02:06
schestowitz It’s down to regulation. With Gates, there are mandatory disclosures, but they are incomplete. Aug 30 02:06
schestowitz You can also see insider-trading very frequently. Aug 30 02:06
jose so everyone in power gets their hands dirty.. at least many do Aug 30 02:06
schestowitz Yes. Aug 30 02:06
schestowitz Recommended: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/… Aug 30 02:07
jose there truly is competition, but monopolies and mergers are evil for this reason.. that wealthiest bunch should never have too much control or it’s over Aug 30 02:07
jose because they can’t be caught and can manipulate things so that they win every game.. the playing field is never fair when one group is too strong Aug 30 02:08
jose most of this can be done legally Aug 30 02:08
jose well after lobbyists help pass the proper loopholes Aug 30 02:09
jose again, you can’t regulate alll of this short of something like central control ..communism Aug 30 02:09
jose .. so to keep things distributed and fair.. Aug 30 02:09
jose you need to ensure fair-ish competition Aug 30 02:09
schestowitz Transparency is goof. Aug 30 02:09
jose END to MONOPOLIES Aug 30 02:09
schestowitz I love Wikileaks. Aug 30 02:09
schestowitz *good, not “goof” Aug 30 02:09
jose well, the compeitition should keep all of this in check,, but if those with access and control ever end up as a small enough group, they will milk the rest of us Aug 30 02:10
jose we will play the games and appear to always lose legally Aug 30 02:11
schestowitz Like at present? Aug 30 02:12
jose to be clear, communism is horrible because of the extreme centralization of power.. Aug 30 02:12
schestowitz Watch what’s happening with swpatents at the moment.  Classic case study. Aug 30 02:13
MinceR isn’t that socialism? Aug 30 02:18
MinceR or did they intend to retain the state forever? Aug 30 02:18
MinceR (in what they claimed should be done) Aug 30 02:19
MinceR looking into the WP article only made me more confused :> Aug 30 02:20
schestowitz Which one? Aug 30 02:20
MinceR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co… Aug 30 02:21
schestowitz If I click on it, Gordon will harvest my packets. :-) j/k Aug 30 02:23
jose lol, yeah, i had to think twice before going there myself Aug 30 02:24
MinceR which Gordon? Aug 30 02:24
schestowitz Clown, to use RMS’ joke. Aug 30 02:24
MinceR i don’t think i know that joke Aug 30 02:25
schestowitz Paul Erdos was denied access to the US as an academic after being asked a question about Marx. It’s funny how paranoid they were at the time Aug 30 02:25
schestowitz To this date, it’s part of his obituary — a single incident like this. Aug 30 02:26
schestowitz MinceR: when RMS came here to Manchester, he called Brown “Gordon Clown”. Aug 30 02:26
MinceR lol Aug 30 02:26
schestowitz He also says Bliar. Aug 30 02:27
jose :) Aug 30 02:27
*schestowitz is pro-Labour mostly. Aug 30 02:27
*MinceR knows little about UK politics. Aug 30 02:27
jose the party system: you scratch my back I scratch yours.. appears to win easily over independents Aug 30 02:28
schestowitz There’s no real election Aug 30 02:28
jose there’s no real solution Aug 30 02:29
MinceR ah, so the same two groups of bastards taking turns fucking the country over setup as in the USA and here in hungary Aug 30 02:29
schestowitz The government always stays the same. It just has a different puppet (or set thereof) at the tip of the strings. Aug 30 02:29
schestowitz You have Blair, Brown and other UK commerce giants meeting up with Melinda Gates et al in Bilderberg annual meetings. That’s where the elites decide on a lot of stuff. Aug 30 02:30
MinceR funny how this scum has the audacity to call themselves “elite” Aug 30 02:31
schestowitz Not in the athletic sense… Aug 30 02:32
jose so numbers can be manipulated legally (much is left to discretion) or at least in a way few are likely to realize.. Aug 30 02:34
jose stocks rise and ma and pa *willingly* buy the hyped stocks. then world crashes.. or another round is started after strong pullbacks. buy high sell low for us. Aug 30 02:35
jose the sickness, like much in the media is that it’s all a sell/con job that is mostly legal. we lose and feel we rightfully played the game and lost. Aug 30 02:35
jose it’s too easy for “them” to cheat Aug 30 02:35
schestowitz The Wall Street press is glorfying itself to entice poor ‘idiots’ to toss their money in. Aug 30 02:36
jose what does buffet think? Aug 30 02:36
jose :) Aug 30 02:36
jose .. great, I’m in. Aug 30 02:36
schestowitz Then, when they lose it (like in a casino where adds are against you… never mind commission), the insider-traders win. They play the stock up and down with words of friend analysts. Aug 30 02:36
jose the business cycle is when they come clean as they allow the stocks to fall.. Aug 30 02:37
jose ..i say “allow” because a large was of money is controlled by few.. eg, 50% is more than enough even if these compete somewhat Aug 30 02:38
schestowitz I’ve seen Las Vegas wannabes burning their money trying to be Big Shots in ‘the market’. It’s like gambling, which is illegal in places. Aug 30 02:38
jose was of money -> wad of money Aug 30 02:38
jose too much is out of our controlled and the news outlets are carefully controlled so that we are most confident prior to the moment of doom Aug 30 02:38
jose you can’t win when the opponent has insider access or at least a good guess and further has the ability to affect “independent” news Aug 30 02:39
schestowitz Yes, Robert Bach for example. Aug 30 02:40
jose this is how I view microsoft’s control over their source code and so-called open documentation of them Aug 30 02:40
schestowitz He’s a VP at Microsoft, but he should be in prison./ Aug 30 02:40
schestowitz I wrote about this many times, but no-one that can do something about it would listen (of course not) Aug 30 02:40
jose one thing to keep in mind and it’s why i mentioned communism.. Aug 30 02:41
schestowitz Well, it’s not the regime structure, IMHO. Aug 30 02:41
jose any rules that are established can seem fair (at least until ms gets their hands on them :/ ) Aug 30 02:41
schestowitz It’s just a case of living in a culture where criminals are glorified. Aug 30 02:41
jose but if you deal with business day in and out, it becomes much easier for you to be able to slaughter those with less experience Aug 30 02:42
schestowitz And winning athletes are probably on steroids: http://www.aqmd.gov/ej/images/Asthma… Aug 30 02:42
jose things are such that the victor can make too much.. Aug 30 02:42
jose it’s difficult to regulate to stop abuse Aug 30 02:42
jose so much boils down to a sell job and the free decisions by those being ..conned Aug 30 02:43
schestowitz That’s when it’s time for a reform, jose. Aug 30 02:43
jose we are left with horrible communism or accept that there will be problems in any free system where legal things will not be fair Aug 30 02:43
jose yes, you have to keep trying to improve it. Aug 30 02:43
jose look at marriages Aug 30 02:44
schestowitz Change Congress for instance: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/0… Aug 30 02:44
jose how many are “duped” into a relationship and situation that is not in their best interest? so do you make marriages illegal Aug 30 02:44
jose we haven’t solved these basic problems Aug 30 02:44
jose the financial titans will continue to have their fun.. and that is ok as long as the side-effect/by-product damages aren’t too painful to too many Aug 30 02:45
schestowitz Rules are very arbitrary, but those who bbenefit from the rules of a current game fight to maintain them. Aug 30 02:45
schestowitz In this case this involves monopolysoft. Aug 30 02:46
jose so what I am saying is that perfect rules are impossible.. much will be left to discretion (eg, “of professionals”). money has a way of twisting the professional opinions of professional and independent X Aug 30 02:46
jose it’s interesting and sad Aug 30 02:47
schestowitz It’s human’s nature. Aug 30 02:47
schestowitz Whatever system allows someone to increase power (e.g. Hitler, Stalin) will be abused somehow. If it’s not self-balancing, it’s doomed to fail. Aug 30 02:48
jose those that labor and keep their level of education down are almost doomed to their lifestyle and bad draw.. again, communism (“their salvation”) won’t do because it will simply be one group of elite taking over another Aug 30 02:48
jose education is so important.. I love linux for this reason… Aug 30 02:49
jose among many other reasons, of course Aug 30 02:49
jose variety is valuable for the same reason.. to motivate people to create, learn, control, and grow.. Aug 30 02:49
jose ..and so that everyone can be king/queen of the hill in some area Aug 30 02:50
jose i am all for 1zillion distros (custom jobs, several per person) and completely against few distros to rule them all. Aug 30 02:50
jose without educated voters/workers, we are doomed to the current situation Aug 30 02:51
schestowitz Yuck. One distro? Now, *that* would be communism. Aug 30 02:51
schestowitz You know, like Windows. Aug 30 02:51
jose ..again, unless we want to entrust one particular elite to rule with an iron hand.. that won’t do Aug 30 02:51
jose lemmings are horrible.. if you want any free system to work Aug 30 02:51
schestowitz They are made that way. Aug 30 02:52
schestowitz Indutry-imposed televised information. Aug 30 02:52
jose we can fight ms tactics with similar ones.. but the prob is we must do it as hobbies to a large degree Aug 30 02:52
schestowitz It’s 3 AM here now. I really need to go to bed, but I’ll catch you tomorrow. Thanks for the good chat. Aug 30 02:52
jose ok, Aug 30 02:52
jose yup, it was fun. Aug 30 02:53
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jose schestowitz, i’ll talk a bit since you might read it later (and for anyone else interested) Aug 30 03:13
jose ms makes lots of deals .. some of this might never go through, perhaps there is a bail out clause to motivate the deal Aug 30 03:14
jose nda’s of course Aug 30 03:15
jose this starts to bring into ms “accounts receivables” that is debt they are owed but which may not be paid in cash at that point in time (buying on credit) Aug 30 03:16
jose this counts as revenue, but they still want/need cash. Aug 30 03:16
jose cash might be coming in from those paying off prior debts… Aug 30 03:17
jose however, is it so crazy to imagine that with gates connections and “motivations” he might not get some high ranking professional at bank X or some other group… Aug 30 03:17
jose to sign off as legit on buying this debt (the paper based account receivable contracts) in exchange for case or something just as liquid Aug 30 03:18
jose this means the bank takes the risk, but we know that “banks” in some case are being abused to take a fall for bad investments. Aug 30 03:18
jose so microsoft converts these promises to pay them from customers that might not pay or may not have to (at least in some cases) and get these promises converted to money Aug 30 03:19
jose which is then used to buy stock..whose stock.. well, gates’ of course, as well as everyone else’s, but this helps keep the price from plummeting while gates cashes out Aug 30 03:20
jose this almost certainly goes on to some degree. the idea is that only very little, but ms is full of creative methods. Aug 30 03:21
jose in the end, lot’s of promises from companies that will eventually take a write-off. Aug 30 03:21
jose this isn’t so crazy.. consider a public company that is a customer of microsoft Aug 30 03:22
jose they too hype up their earnings and add tricks like what was just mentioned.. to some degree. Aug 30 03:22
jose eventually, when the fun comes to an end or winds down, the stockprices will drop (eg, after the 2000 tech bubble where many were left holding worthless paper like stock options that had not matured/vested that was used to pay bills) Aug 30 03:23
jose during the hype time, ma and pa buy the stock from these companies Aug 30 03:23
jose then when the bad news comes out, industry wide,.. Aug 30 03:24
jose the stocks plummet. but it wasn’t gates that lost money..ok, he did but now before getting a bunch out at the high prices Aug 30 03:24
jose it was ma and pa’s Aug 30 03:24
jose the cycle repeast. up and down up and down Aug 30 03:25
jose or just up and up Aug 30 03:25
jose point is that the market determines this. there is no secret formula, but the effect is for the big boys to bail ultimately before the stocks come way down Aug 30 03:26
jose the b&g gates foundation was able to dump their msft shares (which belonged to bill) without making noise Aug 30 03:27
jose gates could not have done this without leading to serious problems for msft.. but the nonprofit was able to dump it without quietly without ripples.. Aug 30 03:28
jose and they likely sold it to groups like the teachers union pension fund and other such “well-managed” buyers Aug 30 03:28
jose through deception and tricks, gates cashes out at the tax payer expense or the expense of those that trust others to manage their money because supposedly these others know what they are doing Aug 30 03:30
jose gates has made billions and should have the rest of his wealth crumble if the company has problems.. it’s called captain going down with the ship.. and it’s not as if he wouldn’t keep billions already… Aug 30 03:31
jose but no, he’s willing to have ordinary working people take many more lumps so he can get many more billions out safely. Aug 30 03:31
jose and it’s legal (well, some of it anyway) because after all, “these are all free people making free financial decisions that just didn’t work out for them” Aug 30 03:33
jose interesting: http://billparish.wordpress.com/20… Aug 30 03:37
jose and this: http://billparish.wordpress.com/200… Aug 30 03:44
jose and this which is also about google: http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007… Aug 30 03:46
jose this interesting one shows that google is now doing what Microsoft was able to do in the past: http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/… Aug 30 03:49
jose here is the quicky on stock options as (ab)used here Aug 30 03:50
jose company grants employees stock options, these can be converted into stock in the future. Aug 30 03:50
jose in the past, these were put in the financial reports but did not factor into revenues or any other “bottom line” Aug 30 03:51
jose today, these options are marked off but only very little (at least little if by the time they are exercised the company stock has gone up a lot) Aug 30 03:52
jose options don’t cost the company today.. Aug 30 03:52
jose but they cost the company when they are exercised relative to the stock prices then. Aug 30 03:52
jose so the effect is that microsoft appears to have paid it’s employees very little years ago, but once those options got exercised Aug 30 03:53
jose the stock was worth huge amounts of money Aug 30 03:53
jose so who loses? Aug 30 03:53
jose well, the investors today find that a bunch of people all of a sudden are competing with your for the same paper money Aug 30 03:54
jose or rather, a chunk of the value of microsoft that used to belong to you based on your ownership just got handed over to others too so you own less of it Aug 30 03:55
jose on the one hand, your stock value should only drop a bit.. but the point is that microsoft pulled off their purchases and deals years ago through this heavy cost that was not reflected. Aug 30 03:56
jose so if earnings then were 1 buck per share, the hidden costs based on compensation payed out turned out to have been say $4 bucks meaning the company lost money Aug 30 03:56
jose but no one appears to lose.. Aug 30 03:57
jose until the stock implodes Aug 30 03:57
jose this is why it is allowed by the gov.. because the effects are delayed way off into the future Aug 30 03:57
jose it’s a pyramid scheme but it can last for many years so many will point to the positive stimulation effects during the interim period Aug 30 03:57
jose yet ma and pa ultimately pay and.. Aug 30 03:58
jose in the case of microsoft, the reason it lasted so long was because of their powerful position at the center of many monopolies Aug 30 03:58
jose novell execs and others probably have a deal with ms so that they might rake in lots of cash. Aug 30 03:58
jose for that they’d lie and deceive (well those that get it, hope to get $$) Aug 30 03:59
jose and this brings me back to where i started: shocked that novell employee would be so forthright with his feelings in the blog.. if it was meant seriously which it probably was but .,m?? Aug 30 04:00
jose http://automorphic.blogspot.com/2008… Aug 30 04:00
jose i think i should go to bed. Aug 30 04:01
jose the explanation i gave above for stock options was written badly.. bill parish writes some good pieces but anyone wanting to know will have to read in other places too.. check out the msfraudfacts article by bp Aug 30 04:06
jose btw, gap -> gaap and there is also the stricter rules of sas Statement of Auditing Standards .. here is the link to the popular ms pyramid paper for anyone that hasn’t read it http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html Aug 30 04:17
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jose one more thing i didn’t mention, when stock options are exercised, all that money is amazingly given as tax breaks to the company. so not only do they not write off the costs, they get a tax break. makes no sense. Aug 30 05:29
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twitter great conversation.  I like the Bill Parish update. Aug 30 05:56
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ZiggyFish hey Aug 30 09:02
schestowitz Hey there. Aug 30 09:03
ZiggyFish just catching up on the weeks events on the Linux front. Has there been any news on SilverLight? Aug 30 09:04
schestowitz It knocked people out of the Democrats’ convention. Aug 30 09:05
schestowitz Links here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/… Aug 30 09:05
ZiggyFish yeah, I heard. Aug 30 09:06
ZiggyFish (keeping an eye out for SilverLight, it’s the next big battle we will face Aug 30 09:06
schestowitz Right now I’m also interested in way of presenting Microsoft financial practices. Aug 30 09:07
ZiggyFish are you going to do an article on it (I can do some research for you) Aug 30 09:08
schestowitz Yes. Aug 30 09:10
schestowitz There was a long discussion about this last night. Aug 30 09:10
schestowitz I suggest we wait until tomorrow. See the IRC logs of the 30th. Aug 30 09:10
ZiggyFish sure Aug 30 09:10
ZiggyFish well the forth quarter ends on the 30th of september Aug 30 09:15
schestowitz Here’s the thing, in a nutshell… Aug 30 09:16
ZiggyFish suppose we will find out then Aug 30 09:16
schestowitz Jose and I explored some old dirty laucndry. Aug 30 09:16
ZiggyFish nice Aug 30 09:16
schestowitz Some of it is documented and involves admission even by Microsoft insider. Aug 30 09:16
schestowitz *insiders Aug 30 09:16
schestowitz This was already ‘filed’, so to speak, in BN for future use. Aug 30 09:17
schestowitz Jose brought out some more article from Bill Parish — ones that I haven’t seen before. He has been explaining it too. Aug 30 09:17
ZiggyFish lol, if only the US gov wasn’t corrupted by big corporations Aug 30 09:18
schestowitz The way it may or may not relate to Novell is relevant to us, but if along the way we also exposed the Enronisation of Microsoft, that might be helpful to others. Aug 30 09:18
schestowitz Groklaw too seems to be aware of the issue, suggestion that bankruptcy is not so far fetched (I’d have to look at my reference). Microsoft plays a dangerous gamble. Aug 30 09:19
schestowitz To give you just an idea, read this (before the bubble): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/13/sm… Aug 30 09:19
ZiggyFish mm, interesting Aug 30 09:23
schestowitz My hypothesis is that Novell has debt, but the value of its assets exceed the ‘cost’ of  this debt. What enforces this believe is The Register mentioning that after Novell’s latest losses, there was a deby-writeoff. Aug 30 09:23
schestowitz Also see the following, which came before Novell totally sold out to Microsoft: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/22/nov… (BTW, it’s possible that a lot of companies are like this, but it doesn’t make it OK). Aug 30 09:24
ZiggyFish yeah, true Aug 30 09:27
schestowitz What specifically are you referring to? Either way, I’m prepared to write more about Novell’s latest. Aug 30 09:27
ZiggyFish the article and the comment in brackets Aug 30 09:28
schestowitz Whoa:http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0198-22534… Aug 30 09:29
ZiggyFish wow Aug 30 09:29
ZiggyFish After more than seven years in the courts, Novell will spend $13.9 million to make a securities fraud class-action lawsuit go away. Aug 30 09:30
schestowitz Yes. Aug 30 09:31
schestowitz I will write about this later. Aug 30 09:31
schestowitz Microsoft too paid for people to take their fraud claims elsewhere. Aug 30 09:31
schestowitz Welcome to American justice, where you can commit a crime and get away with it if you are rich. Aug 30 09:32
ZiggyFish yeah, they would of also paid more then novel did Aug 30 09:32
schestowitz Apple too is like this… backdating scandal and other such thing. They escaped it somehow. Aug 30 09:32
ZiggyFish yeah Aug 30 09:33
schestowitz I’ll do a post about this later. Novell won’t be happy, but I only present documented facts. Aug 30 09:35
ZiggyFish nice Aug 30 09:35
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schestowitz Kettle. Black. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-100… Aug 30 10:42
schestowitz Microsoft is 10 times worse than Google Aug 30 10:42
schestowitz Speaking of book-cooking, I’m pretty sure Alfresco does this too. It reported astounding figures, but deep inside lies a different reality and the marketing guy complains about the open source biz model. Latest: http://asay.blogspot.com/2008/… Aug 30 10:46
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schestowitz Hi, trmanco. Any news about Portugal? Aug 30 11:13
schestowitz Rui replied yesterday. Aug 30 11:13
trmanco haven’t seen any news today Aug 30 11:14
schestowitz Hold on… Aug 30 11:14
schestowitz See comment at the bottom of http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/… Aug 30 11:15
trmanco ok Aug 30 11:16
trmanco Ireally don’t know what he is talking about Aug 30 11:18
trmanco oh wait Aug 30 11:19
schestowitz The articles are in Portuguese. Aug 30 11:22
trmanco maybe he is referring to the e-escolas program, if you are in schools you can get a cheap laptop provided by the government that comes preloaded with windows or linux Aug 30 11:23
ZiggyFish nice Aug 30 11:25
ZiggyFish (I wish australia did that) Aug 30 11:25
trmanco Rui is more into the Portuguese stuff I like more international news, but I don’t know of any open standards law project or anything with that name Aug 30 11:25
trmanco ZiggyFish, what? Aug 30 11:25
trmanco linux laptops at schools? Aug 30 11:26
ZiggyFish yeah Aug 30 11:26
trmanco people will likly go for the windows versions Aug 30 11:26
trmanco likely* Aug 30 11:26
ZiggyFish australia is big on microsoft Aug 30 11:26
trmanco so is portugal Aug 30 11:26
trmanco http://www.caixamagica.pt/CM12/ -> here is the linux distruibuition that comes with those laptops Aug 30 11:27
schestowitz trmanco: because they provided a dumbed-down version of Linux. It’s an illusion of choice. Aug 30 11:27
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schestowitz What they should have done is given equal treatment. Aug 30 11:27
schestowitz schestowitz: I thought it was XO/Sugar. Aug 30 11:28
trmanco schestowitz, yes you are right Aug 30 11:28
ZiggyFish trmanco: 4Gb de software = in english Aug 30 11:28
schestowitz caixa magica moved away from SUSE, IIRC. Aug 30 11:28
schestowitz Let me check Aug 30 11:28
trmanco schestowitz, this is what Rui is talking about -> http://blog.softwarelivre.sapo.pt/20… Aug 30 11:28
trmanco I think Aug 30 11:28
schestowitz Yup! http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/03/… Aug 30 11:28
trmanco http://translate.google.com/translate?… Aug 30 11:29
schestowitz You know what I think? Aug 30 11:29
schestowitz I think we should refer to Novell differently, just like “M$” Aug 30 11:29
schestowitz Microfraud was one example. Aug 30 11:29
trmanco yes its based on mandriva now Aug 30 11:29
schestowitz I left a comment about this here: http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/0… Aug 30 11:30
schestowitz Fraudvell sounds good? Aug 30 11:30
schestowitz I think there’s sufficient proof to justify the allegation, even if it’s a past story. Aug 30 11:31
ZiggyFish schestowitz: M$ is good because Microsoft is often referred to as MS Aug 30 11:31
schestowitz It wrongly suggests that Microsoft is wealthy. It’s more like flattery. Aug 30 11:31
ZiggyFish it seguests that Microsoft cares only about money Aug 30 11:32
schestowitz Yes, that too. Tissue paper money… Aug 30 11:33
trmanco Rui may be right saying that Ballmer will come to Portugal to destroy the Open Standards project law Aug 30 11:35
schestowitz I have little doubt about it if he meets minister. How well can we show it? Any stories? Aug 30 11:38
ZiggyFish I’m looking at words that look simular to Novell, ones I’ve come up with NoVeil (which could be interpreted as they hide the true). Aug 30 11:39
schestowitz trmanco: I try to raise awareness. See this: http://www.google.com/search?num=… Aug 30 11:39
trmanco already on the 3rd result Aug 30 11:39
schestowitz We need to just document more evidence for other people to pick up and take action. Aug 30 11:40
trmanco http://www.programaslivres.net/2008/08/… Aug 30 11:41
trmanco here is another one Aug 30 11:41
trmanco schestowitz, this is the official announcement -> http://www.pcp.pt/index.php?o… Aug 30 11:42
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trmanco http://www.google.pt/searc… Aug 30 11:42
trmanco lots of info on google, but everything is in Portuguese Aug 30 11:42
schestowitz http://translate.google.com/trans… http://translate.google.com/translate?… Aug 30 11:43
schestowitz Thanks, you beat me to it. Aug 30 11:43
trmanco :P Aug 30 11:43
ZiggyFish this is so true, This means that if the information concerned is stored in a format that the supplier of software owns and controls, then it may be that the State has the ability to have the information, but does not have any way to recover, except using software that company in question. If the holder of that information can not recover without the consent of the manufacturer of software, then this is a situation of control Aug 30 11:45
schestowitz I’ll blog it later. Aug 30 11:46
trmanco we have a better Portuguese distro in Portugal, its called Alinex and its debian based Aug 30 11:51
trmanco http://www.alinex.org/ Aug 30 11:52
ZiggyFish nice, trmanco does ubuntu have a portugal lang support Aug 30 11:52
schestowitz I think I saw it listed in DistroWatch. Aug 30 11:52
trmanco ZiggyFish, yes Aug 30 11:53
trmanco but its not full Aug 30 11:53
schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/UseNet/200… http://linux.hostweb.com/TopicMessages/… Aug 30 11:53
trmanco https://translations.launchpad.net/… Aug 30 11:54
schestowitz When I wrote the latter, it was only added to DW. Aug 30 11:54
ZiggyFish I went back to ubuntu (was using fedora for about a week) Aug 30 11:55
trmanco Alinex was adopted in schools but it was version 1.0 and it had to be loaded with the Windows bootloader, not grub Aug 30 11:56
trmanco that was 2 years ago Aug 30 11:57
trmanco and nobody updates yet to the latest version Aug 30 11:57
trmanco updated* Aug 30 11:57
trmanco http://www.alinex.org/download/isos Aug 30 11:57
trmanco the one that says TIC was the one installed in schools all over the country leaving caixa mágica  out of the game Aug 30 11:58
schestowitz it’s probably diverse and thus obscure enough to be ‘safe’ (SSL). Aug 30 11:58
schestowitz What does caixa mágica mean? Aug 30 11:59
trmanco magic box Aug 30 11:59
trmanco known by lots of poruguese by tragic box Aug 30 11:59
trmanco caixa trágica Aug 30 11:59
trmanco used once, and 8. something version of it on a P2 with 64 megs of ram :| Aug 30 12:00
trmanco an* Aug 30 12:00
schestowitz Magic box: sounds like Mandrake. Aug 30 12:04
schestowitz *LOL* Just found: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.p… Aug 30 12:07
ZiggyFish lol Aug 30 12:10
schestowitz http://www.linux-magazine.com/online/b… Aug 30 12:11
schestowitz This is very, very timely. Aug 30 12:11
trmanco :) Aug 30 12:11
schestowitz CNET is spreading lies about Brazil and the talking points of Microsoft are then citing CNET for disinformation. It’s like some kind of propaganda party (CNET). I will write about it soon. IDC does the same thing, with the help of ZDNet and CNET. Aug 30 12:12
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trmanco microsofties Aug 30 12:13
trmanco they all work somehow together Aug 30 12:13
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schestowitz They panicked because all schools in Brazil move to Debian GNU/Linux with KDE. Aug 30 12:14
schestowitz So they sent the Ina Friend shill down there to write lies from Microsoft’s chief liar. Aug 30 12:14
schestowitz “‘Bravo. Good corporate lackey. Ina Fried gets a fluff job from the Microsoft head liar in Brazil and she runs with it THREE times and now you jump on it. Bravo.” Aug 30 12:15
schestowitz From http://news.cnet.com/8301-13… Aug 30 12:15
schestowitz Leif is moving to GNU/Linux: http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2008/08… http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2008/08/… Aug 30 12:32
trmanco look like that open source law project is going to be aplied soon in portugal Aug 30 13:24
trmanco looks* Aug 30 13:24
trmanco Entrada em vigor Aug 30 13:25
trmanco A presente lei entra em vigor 90 dias após a sua publicação. Aug 30 13:25
trmanco Assembleia da República, em 30 de Julho de 2008 Aug 30 13:25
schestowitz Thanks. Aug 30 13:29
schestowitz I was writing about it _JUST NOW_ :-) Aug 30 13:29
trmanco :p Aug 30 13:30
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schestowitz seller_liar has just left, but I was going to write about Brazil too. Aug 30 13:31
schestowitz Microsoft has a propaganda running against Brazil and Linux. It’s becoming more clear all the time. Aug 30 13:31
ZiggyFish has there been any news about Australia lately Aug 30 14:11
schestowitz No Lenovo sub0-notebooks with GNU/Linux there, IIRC. Aug 30 14:17
trmanco http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HNEge4Yf… Aug 30 14:30
ZiggyFish nice Aug 30 14:30
schestowitz trmanco: If I forgot some details or you can add some: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/30/b… Aug 30 14:46
trmanco looks alright to me :) Aug 30 14:50
schestowitz I also did Brazil: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/30/g… Aug 30 14:52
trmanco cool Aug 30 14:55
trmanco I’m also reading the *official* .DOC file with that law project in portugal Aug 30 14:55
trmanco *.doc* :| Aug 30 14:55
trmanco its the same thing thats published on there site Aug 30 14:56
trmanco with some images Aug 30 15:02
schestowitz *LOL* Dot Doc. A bit like ISO… Aug 30 15:04
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2007/09/1… Aug 30 15:04
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/2… Aug 30 15:05
schestowitz Ha! Cool: http://polishlinux.org/linux/how-to-ge… Aug 30 15:23
schestowitz I wonder if that’s the person was was in IRC the other day asking questions about it. I can’t recall if it was from Poland, but I gave the Dave Mitchell article as reference. Aug 30 15:25
mib_g7349c That was probably my dad or older brother. They had gone out to circuit city, best buy and most of the local comp. shops. They then hit the web sites (del, hp, etc.) and seen they could only get computers with vista on them Aug 30 16:55
mib_g7349c He had to drill down on the dell site to find the ubuntu machines Aug 30 16:56
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benJIman “I think there are some folks that are very active online trying to complain about this particular issue[ms-novell], and they’re welcome to that viewpoint. I would suggest that maybe if you are deeply committed to open source, perhaps your time would be better spent in doing something positive.” Aug 30 17:28
twitter People do what they can, Benjie.  Anything that advances software freedom or detracts from those who are enemies of freedom helps. Aug 30 18:05
twitter Now that ISO has two “standards” for docs, I wonder which one they will demand for comments. Aug 30 18:53
MinceR neither, they’ll demand .doc ;) Aug 30 18:57
MinceR or, even better, .doc renamed to .rtf Aug 30 18:57
schestowitz Or snail mail (like Cuba) Aug 30 18:57
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twitter How about NoValue as a name for Novell? Aug 30 19:28
twitter I can see it in their cute little font. Aug 30 19:29
twitter So 80s. Aug 30 19:29
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schestowitz Hehe. That’s a good one. Aug 30 19:37
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schestowitz Someone just posted me about http://boycottnovell.com/credibility-index/ Aug 30 19:44
schestowitz “Also, Ingrid Marson is missing. Of ZDNet http://www.google.com/search?q= “ingrid+marson”   she wrote really good stuff.   Haven’t seen her on ZDNet lately, though I read it less than before.   Once the list is filled out, start tracking staffing changes and look for correlations between M$ advertising money or other similar influence and departure of the non-shills.” Aug 30 19:44
schestowitz I see http://gcc.gnu.org/ml… . In 3 years of reading *nix news, I never came across the name. ZDNet is MS turf BTW. Is anyone familiar with Ingrid? Aug 30 19:44
schestowitz twitter: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/… Aug 30 20:06
twitter :) Aug 30 20:11
twitter Mine has two Ls, to make fun of the illiterate origin. Aug 30 20:12
twitter I have png and svg.  What’s a good email address to send it to you?  Bayimg is not working right now and they don’t accept svg anyway. Aug 30 20:14
schestowitz My bad. Aug 30 20:14
MinceR re the NoValue logo: the ‘e’ could be taken from the Novell logo too Aug 30 20:46
schestowitz Yeah.. I did this very quickly. I won’t be used much. Aug 30 20:53
schestowitz I returned to using the royalty-free stock exchange, as I did back in 2004-2006, so there should be more pictures in BN. Aug 30 20:54
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kentma evenin’ all Aug 30 22:50
schestowitz How was vacation? Aug 30 22:51
kentma exce,,e t Aug 30 22:51
schestowitz Lost a finger? Aug 30 22:51
kentma hehe – maybe!  I was mostly on a canal boat on the llangollen and then shropshire union canals, via Beeston castle (see Jodrell Bank), and into Chester for a day.  Great fun – and saw a horse-drawn 102 year old boat! Aug 30 22:52
kentma oh yeah, and the last commercial boat made – they made it without rivets in order to save 2 tons in weight, but they couldn’t compete with wagons. Aug 30 22:53
schestowitz Well, the NG server was up consistently. On the other day, my machine at work is down. I had the IT staff check the router… the connection is lost for no reason. Aug 30 22:53
schestowitz The USENET troll now call me a shill for Microsoft. *LOL* Aug 30 22:54
kentma Ah, great news that the server stayed up!  sorry about your work machine.  MS troll? amazing… Aug 30 22:54
kentma Any particular reason for that? Aug 30 22:54
schestowitz The USENET stuff? Go ans watch. It’s hilarious. Desparate to discredit. Aug 30 22:54
kentma I shall take a peak later on… I’ve a few digests to catch up with, of course.  Perhaps I should find a delegate for whilst I’m away… Aug 30 22:55
kentma Interesting thing – my no2 son found out what the MS trolls had been saying about me – I had to explain that Microsoft pay people to abuse anyone who promotes alternatives… he was a little shocked. Aug 30 22:57
schestowitz kentma: I think you want to see this < http://goliath.ecnext.com/… > and this < http://web.archive.org/web/20070308… > Aug 30 22:57
*kentma looks Aug 30 22:57
kentma oh… Aug 30 22:58
kentma sh1t Aug 30 22:58
schestowitz My grandpa and brother saw things about me. But… :-) … when they read libel about me chopping off things, they just laugh of course. Hopefully this libel does not affect other people. Aug 30 22:58
kentma Ah, at last, the truth about the finance is beginning to emerge. Aug 30 22:59
kentma I recall the abuse I got when I pointed out that$19bn had disappeared from MS’s books over just a couple of years. Aug 30 22:59
schestowitz I showed this to Moody. Microsoft will possibly be shut down like Enron at the end. Aug 30 22:59
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008… Aug 30 23:01
schestowitz 18 billion in losses back in 1998. Aug 30 23:01
kentma they’ve been losing money for a very long time.  the situation is not sustainable… Aug 30 23:02
schestowitz For Microsoft or the US economy that they’ve been robbing? Aug 30 23:03
kentma US$4m is a lot to settle something which you consider to be wrong… Aug 30 23:03
schestowitz There was a chat about this here (last night) Aug 30 23:03
schestowitz kentma: it wasn’t class action, unlike the former (Novell) Aug 30 23:04
kentma oh, I think that the US Economy argument would be that so much money came into the US from the rest of the world, that failing to pay tax is relatively minor, I’d say. Aug 30 23:04
kentma It’s a weak argument, but I bet it’d buy a few politicians… Aug 30 23:05
kentma argghh!  the room is swaying! Aug 30 23:05
schestowitz Speaking of tax shelter, Gates Foundation. Let me find a URL from last night. Aug 30 23:06
schestowitz http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/09/… Aug 30 23:07
schestowitz And this: http://www.billparish.com/20040223… Aug 30 23:07
ZiggyFish just reading the http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?p… article , nice, some OS devs will be happy about this (just posted it to a OSDev forum I know of ;) ) Aug 30 23:07
kentma um, interesting… Aug 30 23:07
schestowitz http://billparish.wordpress.com/2008/03/1… Aug 30 23:08
kentma ZiggyFish: good news :-) Aug 30 23:08
schestowitz http://billparish.wordpress.com/200… Aug 30 23:08
schestowitz http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/10/04/micros… Aug 30 23:08
schestowitz \http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/inside-st… Aug 30 23:08
schestowitz Oops. http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/… Aug 30 23:08
kentma umm – fascinating… Aug 30 23:09
schestowitz Jose left this comment: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php… Aug 30 23:09
schestowitz ZiggyFish: there’s more from VIA and Silicon Motion Driver Aug 30 23:10
schestowitz I’ll post a link later tonight, but: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&a… http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&a… Aug 30 23:10
kentma fascinating about the stock options problem. Aug 30 23:10
schestowitz They make lots of mon… errr.. paper tissue. Aug 30 23:10
kentma :-) Aug 30 23:11
schestowitz I reckon they don’t make any money (maybe even losses) in developing countries where they give the software away and call it “piracy”. Aug 30 23:11
ZiggyFish nice, 2 years ago. we had problems getting 3D acceleration (from the hobbiest OS dev POV), Aug 30 23:11
kentma it’s possible that their local units make some kind of profit locally, since they have zero production costs. Aug 30 23:11
kentma ZiggyFish: :-) Aug 30 23:11
schestowitz kentma: localisation is what I had in mind. Aug 30 23:12
ZiggyFish (use to be a OS dev myself) Aug 30 23:12
schestowitz ZiggyFish: help the MINIX folks. Aug 30 23:12
kentma ZiggyFish: I recall you’ve mentioned that before.  An honourable trade, anyway. Aug 30 23:12
schestowitz http://www.educ.umu.se/~bjorn/mhon… Aug 30 23:13
ZiggyFish yeah Aug 30 23:13
kentma anyway – c u 2morrow folks Aug 30 23:15
schestowitz New Linux user (Denmark’s main man for OOo): http://lodahl.blogspot.com/… Aug 30 23:20
ZiggyFish nice Aug 30 23:31
ZiggyFish left a post about his last statement though Aug 30 23:35
schestowitz Leif? Aug 30 23:36
schestowitz Moderation maybe? Aug 30 23:36
ZiggyFish yeah Aug 30 23:37
schestowitz Good man. Aug 30 23:37
schestowitz Some months ago he was ranting about Linux without having used it. Aug 30 23:37
schestowitz He said it was just for technical people, basing this on his colleagues apparently. Aug 30 23:37
ZiggyFish lol, well with the problems he has had, to an average user these are technical problems Aug 30 23:38
schestowitz *LOL* didn’t notice that. Aug 30 23:39
schestowitz /etc/ *LOL* Aug 30 23:39
schestowitz Never mind the typo (firfox). But that’s what help is for. He needs to move the profile from the userspace. Aug 30 23:40
*cozub has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Aug 30 23:40
ZiggyFish yeah, but he also may be using outlook, which is another problem Aug 30 23:41
schestowitz Carla wrote about it last night: http://www.linuxtoday.com/new… Aug 30 23:41
schestowitz Good news: http://commit-digest.org/issues/2008-08-17/  No Mono or C# patches this week. Aug 30 23:42
ZiggyFish nice Aug 30 23:42
schestowitz Should be ‘this’ week. It was posted moments ago, but it’s referring to 2 weeks ago. Aug 30 23:45
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