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09.06.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 5th, 2008 – Part II

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:26 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Enter the IRC channel now

wasabi disagree with what though, I have no idea. Sep 05 14:49
taq how old are you? about more than a decade ago a lot of things happened on the same terms they are happening today Sep 05 14:49
taq but now we’re here, we have the web to talk about it, this is really a big difference Sep 05 14:49
taq and when a see somethings like dirty game, not matter where it came from, from a political, from a company, I talk about that Sep 05 14:50
schestowitz Planet GNOME has Microsoft people in it now?? Sep 05 14:50
taq and of course, some agree, some disagree Sep 05 14:50
trmanco schestowitz, yes Sep 05 14:51
wasabi What does “microsoft people” mean? Sep 05 14:51
schestowitz People employed by Microsoft. Sep 05 14:51
wasabi What does that mean, to you? Sep 05 14:51
schestowitz it’s bad enough that Ubuntu has Microsoft boosters inside. Sep 05 14:51
trmanco I’ve been following planet gnome and 80% of the posts are about mono and.net stuff Sep 05 14:51
taq so if I say that m$ and novell are weird stuff, you can disagree, but I’m free to say all that I think about that, and not matter if you think it can be FUD or not, to tell people about it Sep 05 14:52
schestowitz That’s how Mono and such issues come about. Sep 05 14:52
schestowitz I was warned about this a year ago. Sep 05 14:52
taq icaza just made a post about integration of visual studio and mono Sep 05 14:52
wasabi Oh. Yeah? Interseting. MS has never sent me a check. =( Sep 05 14:52
wasabi I should talk to their HR Sep 05 14:52
taq how many post about only Free Software and not m$ stuff did you guys saw on his blog on the last 2 years? Sep 05 14:52
schestowitz taq: I saw that and linked to it. Sep 05 14:52
schestowitz SourceForge too has been advertising VS Sep 05 14:53
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schestowitz And they too are funded by Microsoft. Posted this one hours ago:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/… Sep 05 14:53
schestowitz Microsoft is just buying off the FOSS community Sep 05 14:53
taq did you notice their only power nowadays reside on the money? Sep 05 14:54
wasabi So how do you guys feel about UFOs? Sep 05 14:54
schestowitz It’s cheaper to change your opponent than it is to compete. Novell is one example, but there are others. Sep 05 14:54
trmanco well, there will come a time where microsoft will have no money left with all these buyouts Sep 05 14:54
schestowitz wasabi: how old are you? Sep 05 14:54
wasabi How old are you? Sep 05 14:54
taq wasabi: hey, I have some interesting histories about UFOs :-) but that’s not the place to talk about that :-) Sep 05 14:54
schestowitz trmanco: it might already be in debt Sep 05 14:55
trmanco well i hope so Sep 05 14:55
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/200… Sep 05 14:55
schestowitz Novell too is an iffy one. Sep 05 14:55
schestowitz Remember that Enron too was glorified… with amazing pensions promised to its workers. It’s a bubble. Sep 05 14:55
schestowitz And don’t tell me about how much software Microsoft ‘sells’… because lots of it is not paid for, except for in some rich countries. Sep 05 14:56
taq dudes, I think that only the time will show us what is happening, because one day or other the truth comes. but I’ll not wait quiet till there. :-) Sep 05 14:56
taq the chat is fine but I need to go. will try to come back later. see ya Sep 05 14:57
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trmanco http://www.theregister.co.uk/20… Sep 05 15:03
trmanco again Sep 05 15:03
trmanco the same guy from yesterday Sep 05 15:04
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schestowitz People give them attention when they provoke FOSS fans, so they rinse and repeat. I was recently told that they have a rlationship with MS Sep 05 15:07
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schestowitz The worst one is Andy Orlowski. Sep 05 15:07
trmanco who is Slated? Sep 05 15:08
schestowitz slated.org Sep 05 15:09
trmanco oh Sep 05 15:09
trmanco homer Sep 05 15:09
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trmanco there are so many mibs here Sep 05 15:11
trmanco :| Sep 05 15:11
trmanco doesn’t look right Sep 05 15:11
[H]omer Personally I think it’s a risk allowing “mib” nyms access to this channel. There’s no way to kickban them without banning *all* Mibbit users. Sep 05 15:13
schestowitz Mib mib http://kara.allthingsd.com/f… Sep 05 15:13
schestowitz [H]omer: please no. Sep 05 15:13
[H]omer No I’m not going to Sep 05 15:14
schestowitz I put that access form in the site. Sep 05 15:14
trmanco we can always ask them to change their nicks Sep 05 15:14
[H]omer I’m just making an observation Sep 05 15:14
schestowitz Trolls can use IRC clients too without being ousted for who they work for. Sep 05 15:14
trmanco that way we can know who is who Sep 05 15:14
[H]omer The Mibbit interface does allow choosing a nick, rather than just “mib_xxx”. Sep 05 15:14
trmanco not even with ./nick? Sep 05 15:15
trmanco after logging in to the channel? Sep 05 15:15
schestowitz The channel is no secret anyway. Sep 05 15:15
[H]omer We could make a rule that access requires Nick registration. Sep 05 15:16
schestowitz Just watch benJIman. There was never seclusion here. Sep 05 15:16
schestowitz With or without logging, it’s enough to have one ‘leaker’ Sep 05 15:16
schestowitz That’s why this question of ‘privacy’ is all about an illusion. Sep 05 15:16
[H]omer Not secret, no … but at IMHO it would keep the s/n ratio down by discouraging Trolls. Sep 05 15:16
schestowitz They come from Tor (some good people too though) and normal routes. Sep 05 15:17
[H]omer It’s certainly getting busy in here, that’s for sure. I take it you posted something that upset Novell/Gnome/Mono people, Roy :) Sep 05 15:20
schestowitz Microsoft can be added to this triplet Sep 05 15:21
schestowitz They are conjoined in places. Sep 05 15:21
trmanco I found BN mentioned on a blog Sep 05 15:22
[H]omer It saddens me that there are now so many in the Free Software community who simply shrug their shoulders over Microsoft issues. Sep 05 15:22
[H]omer Like it doesn’t matter Sep 05 15:22
[H]omer And were all “looneys” for dissenting against them Sep 05 15:23
[H]omer *we’re Sep 05 15:23
schestowitz trmanco: which one? Sep 05 15:24
schestowitz [H]omer: that’s what Microsoft wants. Apple gets it without even ‘buying’ people. Sep 05 15:24
trmanco schestowitz, the **something** programmer Sep 05 15:25
[H]omer That’s “cj’s” site Sep 05 15:25
trmanco yes Sep 05 15:25
trmanco hp://wp.colliertech.org/cj/?p=237 Sep 05 15:26
schestowitz We get linked from many sites. About 10 a day, I think. Sep 05 15:26
trmanco I found this one on fsdaily Sep 05 15:27
schestowitz I responded to it. Seems like a plant, one among many. Sep 05 15:27
[H]omer The Pædantic Programmer’s LiveJournal (http://cjcollier.livejournal.com) too. Sep 05 15:28
schestowitz So *that’s* the one where he doesn’t pretend to be a “FOSS guy”? Sep 05 15:28
[H]omer Here’s his LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cjcollier Sep 05 15:29
[H]omer He’s one of those in the “new wave” pro-Microsoft “Open Sauce” camp. Sep 05 15:29
[H]omer “Microsoft ain’t so bad” … LOL! Sep 05 15:30
schestowitz Heh. Make that SourceForge love Windows, eh? Sep 05 15:30
schestowitz I think I wrote so yesterday. Sep 05 15:30
[H]omer SF sold out Sep 05 15:30
schestowitz That’s the de Icazas that I was warned about before. Sep 05 15:30
schestowitz They try to marry Microsoft with FOSS. Sep 05 15:30
[H]omer Yup … the de Icaza “tribe”. Sep 05 15:30
schestowitz Wait until he pressures the likes of Ubuntu to preinstall Trojans like Moonlight. Sep 05 15:31
schestowitz Because “he’s a FOSS guy” (lookie! I have a blog) and “Microsoft is not so bad” Sep 05 15:31
[H]omer Shuttleworth would be an easy target for the Icaza tribe, since he has few strong convictions about “Freedom”. He’s more interested in “easy”. Sep 05 15:32
schestowitz BoycottNovell? No! Don’t listen to them. “they are not interested in solutions…” Sep 05 15:32
schestowitz [H]omer: yes, I know. He tries to be ‘nice’ to everyone for deals like the one with Dell. Sep 05 15:32
[H]omer I have mixed feelings about the success of NetBook Remix, as you know. Sep 05 15:33
[H]omer There’s no question it pushes Linux to the masses Sep 05 15:33
schestowitz Yes. Sep 05 15:33
[H]omer But at what cost to Freedom? Sep 05 15:33
schestowitz At whose expense? Sep 05 15:33
[H]omer Note: “Linux” not “Free Software”. Sep 05 15:34
schestowitz Maemo uses Debian as its base, but it might be ‘codecs tax’-tained Sep 05 15:34
schestowitz *tainted (I’m not sure though) Sep 05 15:34
[H]omer That’s what excites Shuttleworth … the technicalities of “Linux”, he patently doesn’t care about the political issues. He and the Mono people should get on like a house on fire. Sep 05 15:35
schestowitz Microsoft would never say “GNU/Linux”. It wants to hide the philosophy. I expected Ubuntu to do better than this. Debian does. Sep 05 15:35
[H]omer Sweaty B. can barely bring himself to say the phrase “Open Source”, much less “GNU/Linux”. Sep 05 15:36
schestowitz Does he know RMS? Microsoft never talks about the GNU people. Sep 05 15:37
schestowitz They use proxies like CompTIA to attack RMS. Sep 05 15:37
MinceR “Sweaty B.” — i like that. Sep 05 15:38
schestowitz very petty how they use their pressure groups to attack people. Sep 05 15:38
[H]omer MinceR, : Actually I usually just call him “Sweaty”, or “Sweaty the Impaler” if I’m especially disgusted with something he’s done recently. Sep 05 15:39
MinceR i usually call him “Monkey Boy” Sep 05 15:39
MinceR but this one works too Sep 05 15:39
schestowitz ‘Yes, you’ll read a fair number of posts on this blog that are critical of Microsoft. Get used to it. You see, it’s an open source blog, and until Steve Ballmer figures out how to say “open source” without throwing up in his mouth, there will likely be an “anti-Microsoft” angle to many of the themes I cover. If you want the rosy view on Microsoft, head over to the MSDN blogs and lose yourself in praise of Microsoft.’ Sep 05 15:39
schestowitz http://news.cnet.com/8301-135… Sep 05 15:39
schestowitz That’s about Microsoft attacking him when he criticises Microsoft. You’re ‘not allowed’. Sep 05 15:39
schestowitz [BillG, StewatyB] @mcirosoft.com Sep 05 15:40
[H]omer Due Props to the MSBBC for publishing “It’s not the Gates, it’s the bars”, though. Sep 05 15:40
[H]omer BTW: Any news on if Linux is *ever* getting the iPlayer (native + downloads)? Sep 05 15:41
schestowitz “Gates may be gone, but the walls and bars of proprietary software he  helped create remain, for now. Dismantling them is up to us.” Sep 05 15:41
schestowitz [H]omer: COLA trolls didn’t notice this, but the BBC also published an attack on Linux yesterday-ish Sep 05 15:41
[H]omer Oh. That’s their way of “balancing” Stallman’s article, I guess. Sep 05 15:42
[H]omer Mind you, Pearly is one of their columnists now. Sep 05 15:42
[H]omer Maybe they should have just stuck Stallman; Moglen; Pearly and Sweaty in the same room for a debate. Sep 05 15:43
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2… Sep 05 15:43
schestowitz In lInux Today, the BBC was accused by some for putting this “probably paid for MS article” (not exact quote) Sep 05 15:43
[H]omer Reading it now… Sep 05 15:44
schestowitz [H]omer: they need to feed the chubby one first. Otherwise, it’s like putting Hollyfield and Tyson in a room… could use some ch-eer-ious. Sep 05 15:44
[H]omer The MSBBC is Microsoft’s own “Citizen Kane”. Sep 05 15:46
[H]omer Nothing they do shocks me now. Sep 05 15:46
schestowitz It’s time to watch how they play politics ahead of the election. Sep 05 15:47
[H]omer In fact, the official “media” in general is now completely untrustworthy. Sep 05 15:47
[H]omer If I want news, I’ll ask the people … the real people, uncorrupted by political influence and money. Sep 05 15:47
schestowitz They already seem to be occupying some special positions and making campaign donation/contributions. Even Barack seems corrupted by them (sorry). Sep 05 15:48
[H]omer More than likely Sep 05 15:48
[H]omer American politics is inherently corrupt Sep 05 15:48
[H]omer There’s no balance at all Sep 05 15:48
schestowitz Just don’t ask /dead/ people: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/01/… Sep 05 15:48
schestowitz Their voices were stolen from their graves Sep 05 15:49
schestowitz Look what Garry “fltfish” Stewart is doing. I imagine he’s using the name of a holocaust survivor who died to spread outrageous ant-Linux smears and personal attacks. Sep 05 15:50
[H]omer Anti-Linux people are just part of a bigger “right-wing” agenda. It was never about “my toy is better than your toy” envy, it’s about the principles of Freedom vs the principles of tyranny. They’re right-wing fanatics. Just look at DFS for a stereotypical example. Sep 05 15:52
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[H]omer Or that blatant fascist Alexander Terekhov Sep 05 15:54
schestowitz Well, that’s not true in all nations. Sep 05 15:54
[H]omer In the “West”, mainly. Sep 05 15:54
schestowitz In a way, the US’ current administration is standing in the way of other nations that want independence. Just watch the protests from South America against ISO Sep 05 15:55
[H]omer Especially the United States of Advertising, Land of the Fee. Sep 05 15:55
*libervisco_ is now known as libervisco Sep 05 15:55
[H]omer Yes, Brazil is the best hope for the Americas Sep 05 15:55
schestowitz Microsoft corrupted ISO for more control Sep 05 15:56
schestowitz Have you seen the latest from Brazil? Didn’t post this to COLA… Sep 05 15:56
[H]omer ISO is irrelevant now, thanks to the Vole.That was maybe the plan all along. Sep 05 15:56
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/… Sep 05 15:56
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08… (as you know, Brazil plans to put 52 million kids on Debian) Sep 05 15:57
[H]omer Yes, that’s Microsoft’s typical anti-Linux propaganda – “only Freetards use Linux”. Sep 05 15:57
schestowitz BTW, Alex T is harassing others like Groklaw, not just COLA Sep 05 15:57
[H]omer Oh yes, he’s infamous. Sep 05 15:58
[H]omer He’s been attacking the FSF for decades Sep 05 15:58
schestowitz Really? That’s new to me. Sep 05 15:58
[H]omer Yes, he has a whole Website dedicated to it Sep 05 15:58
schestowitz I was once asked where he travels. Maybe he’s a front for something. Sep 05 15:58
[H]omer Wait, I’ll see if I can find it. Sep 05 15:59
schestowitz He could be an O’Gara-like Microsoft alter-ego Sep 05 15:59
schestowitz Also defending SCO BTW. Sep 05 15:59
[H]omer Here it is, probably the most vicious attack ever against Stallman; Moglen; and the FSF: http://www.softpanorama.org/… Sep 05 16:07
[H]omer Terekhov is behind this (nym). Sep 05 16:07
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?s… Sep 05 16:11
schestowitz I see it’s linked by Oliver Bell, Microsoft’s manager in the east Sep 05 16:11
schestowitz Let’s see who else. Sep 05 16:11
schestowitz Oliver Bell asked about me BTW. Sep 05 16:12
schestowitz Look at this:http://www.google.com/search?sourceid… Sep 05 16:12
schestowitz OOps. http://www.linux-community.de/Neue…    Sounds like Novell Sep 05 16:12
[H]omer It’s an “officially sponsored” work, i.e. propaganda Sep 05 16:15
schestowitz How can I show this? Sep 05 16:16
*seller_liar (n=seller_l@201-43-36-206.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 05 16:16
schestowitz Sounds like the incident with MINIX and Linux (Microsoft paying to encourage Andy to sue Linus) Sep 05 16:16
seller_liar schestowitz: It’s possible to make a graph about the m$-novell deal? Sep 05 16:18
schestowitz I thought about ikt. Sep 05 16:18
schestowitz I got some software from the Mandriva repo, but it didn’t do what I needed. Sep 05 16:18
schestowitz http://alinuxblog.wordpress.com/2008/… Sep 05 16:18
seller_liar schestowitz: wait I show you a example Sep 05 16:19
seller_liar schestowitz: the graph is very explicative Sep 05 16:19
seller_liar http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagem:M… Sep 05 16:20
schestowitz More from Matt “Money! Show me money and iPhone!” Asay: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-… Sep 05 16:20
schestowitz *sigh* lost cause. Sep 05 16:20
seller_liar schestowitz: steve woz has in Brazil Sep 05 16:20
*schestowitz looks Sep 05 16:20
schestowitz Steve or Woz? Or both? ;-p Sep 05 16:20
seller_liar wozniak Sep 05 16:20
seller_liar schestowitz: A lot of people say is a “very good” person Sep 05 16:21
seller_liar schestowitz: It’s true? Sep 05 16:21
schestowitz seller_liar: I was going to do this, but couldn’t get the software to do multiple nodes. I’ll need to GIMP it, I guess. Sep 05 16:21
schestowitz He slammed open source, sort of. Sep 05 16:21
schestowitz They glorify him, but  hear he’s okay. Sep 05 16:22
schestowitz He replies to someone I know. Sep 05 16:22
seller_liar schestowitz:who? Sep 05 16:22
schestowitz Woz Sep 05 16:22
*schestowitz apologises for typos Sep 05 16:23
seller_liar schestowitz: ok Sep 05 16:23
seller_liar schestowitz: do you need a mapmind maker? Sep 05 16:23
schestowitz Yes please Sep 05 16:24
seller_liar http://www.illuminesoftware.co.u… Sep 05 16:26
seller_liar http://freemind.sourceforge.net… Sep 05 16:27
schestowitz They are probably uni-directional many of them. Sep 05 16:28
*schestowitz still looking Sep 05 16:28
seller_liar do you want a bijective mind map? Sep 05 16:29
schestowitz http://news.cnet.com/8301-135… Sep 05 16:29
schestowitz Freely positioned nodes… Sep 05 16:30
schestowitz I just need to do many arrows. Sep 05 16:30
schestowitz http://www.google-watch.org/ Sep 05 16:30
schestowitz Related to this was some site I’m trying to find. Sep 05 16:31
seller_liar schestowitz: very good info about google Sep 05 16:31
seller_liar schestowitz: I will close my account on gmail Sep 05 16:31
schestowitz Can’t remember it… going back to like 2003 or 2004 when a colleague showed it to me. Sep 05 16:31
seller_liar schestowitz: how to attack google? Sep 05 16:32
seller_liar schestowitz: only adblock Sep 05 16:32
schestowitz I don’t attack them. Sep 05 16:32
schestowitz I just pasted a link while trying to find something else. Sep 05 16:32
seller_liar schestowitz:It’s not the moment Sep 05 16:32
seller_liar schestowitz: But ,if we need, we will attack someday Sep 05 16:33
schestowitz I block all the Google spyware myself (AdSense, Analytics, etc) Sep 05 16:33
seller_liar schestowitz: fsf does not use ads Sep 05 16:33
schestowitz My family and friend don’t though. The spying relies on people’s ignorance, so they are profiled secretly by many companies (Phorm anyway?) Sep 05 16:33
seller_liar schestowitz: even fsf 100% distros does not uses ads too Sep 05 16:33
seller_liar schestowitz: have you tested freemind? Sep 05 16:34
schestowitz The thing about Phorm is that you can’t even stop it and te crooks that include BT and the govt. that colludes just lets this law violation be. Sep 05 16:34
schestowitz Not yet Sep 05 16:34
schestowitz it’s something for the weekend, I think. Sep 05 16:34
[H]omer I use Adblock Plus combined with Privoxy and the sa-blacklist. Kills all known ads/tracking dead :) Sep 05 16:34
[H]omer Also my VPN circumvents Phorm. Sep 05 16:35
seller_liar schestowitz: in Brazil ,google loves orkut Sep 05 16:35
seller_liar schestowitz: He knows everything about brazilians Sep 05 16:35
seller_liar schestowitz: the big problem is only 5% of world worry about this Sep 05 16:36
schestowitz As long as Google does not sell this data… Sep 05 16:36
schestowitz (or it leaks…) Sep 05 16:37
seller_liar schestowitz: but profiles every user for more ads Sep 05 16:37
seller_liar schestowitz: specialized info Sep 05 16:37
schestowitz seller_liar: another 5% is also exploiting this. Sep 05 16:37
schestowitz Where 5% equals “people who live in decent conditions” Sep 05 16:37
seller_liar schestowitz: 95% of this world ,only thinks in drugs (alcohol) and sex Sep 05 16:37
schestowitz seller_liar: that’s how they are educated Sep 05 16:38
seller_liar schestowitz: the other 5% thinks about society Sep 05 16:38
[H]omer Well I must be part of the 5% then, since I’m Tee-Total. Sep 05 16:38
seller_liar schestowitz: example , a lot of my people grow in poverty Sep 05 16:38
seller_liar [H]omer: me too Sep 05 16:38
[H]omer But I’m a heavy smoker though Sep 05 16:38
schestowitz It serves those that can abuse it. Ignorance (or sports/celeb knowledge) is the best friend to a corrupt politicians that want to keep the masses dumb Sep 05 16:38
seller_liar schestowitz: then , when the my people grow ,all of them forget the past Sep 05 16:39
seller_liar schestowitz: example in America, Sep 05 16:39
schestowitz [H]omer: look up that lobbying group I postd about earlier. Sep 05 16:39
schestowitz CAGW Sep 05 16:39
schestowitz Smoking connection, IIRC. Tobacco industry. Sep 05 16:40
seller_liar schestowitz: a lot of NBA guys grow in poverty Sep 05 16:40
seller_liar schestowitz: but later ,the guys forget the past ,and “toast” all money in bitches and lux Sep 05 16:40
schestowitz Well, so they can sell a dream (NBA) to keep people clinging onto sports. Sep 05 16:40
schestowitz The problem for a govt’ is a state where many people delve deep into politics. Sep 05 16:40
schestowitz And use as their sources something other than the Bush York Times. Sep 05 16:41
seller_liar schestowitz: politics SHOULD NOT be optional Sep 05 16:41
seller_liar schestowitz: look Sep 05 16:41
[H]omer But in terms of my motivations … Money: I care about subsistence, not greed. Materialism: I care about necessity, before “want”. Basically Freedom and Rights are all I’m really passionate about. Sep 05 16:41
seller_liar schestowitz: how many people discuss about politics Sep 05 16:41
seller_liar [H]omer: me too Sep 05 16:41
schestowitz Remember that it’s publications like the NTY that suppressed voices that said there were no WoMD before the Iraq invasion Sep 05 16:42
schestowitz They serves Bush and its cronies; same with Microsoft and other investor or mutual relationships. Sep 05 16:42
schestowitz Gartner for example. Sep 05 16:42
seller_liar schestowitz: people can not discuss about politcs only in election Sep 05 16:42
seller_liar schestowitz: politics SHOULD BE a constant topic Sep 05 16:43
schestowitz seller_liar: that’s not the correct question (about politics). The question is about /sources/ Sep 05 16:43
seller_liar schestowitz: sources? Sep 05 16:43
schestowitz Many people /think/ they know politics, but they are fed by the very same people they try to know about. Sep 05 16:43
schestowitz Just watch how brushed up all those biographies of politicians are in the press. Sep 05 16:43
schestowitz Eveb Wikipedia has been shown to be gamed by the government. Sep 05 16:44
schestowitz Australia for example… the US too… they toss smears to others like Castro if that helps… Sep 05 16:44
[H]omer Politics is easy to understand: Just assume everything is a lie perpetrated for the sake of propaganda. Believe only what you see in front of you, and ignore the lies. Sep 05 16:44
schestowitz Technolgy advice likewise. Sep 05 16:45
seller_liar schestowitz: but people only thinks about sex and drugs financial power Sep 05 16:45
seller_liar schestowitz: of course Sep 05 16:45
schestowitz Ask RMS about it and he’ll tell you. You must subscribe to trusted blogs, not the pre$$ Sep 05 16:46
seller_liar schestowitz: people should know where to find infos about politics Sep 05 16:46
schestowitz I don’t know much about that area. Sep 05 16:46
schestowitz Daily Kos is considered useful. Sep 05 16:47
[H]omer seller_liar, make that “only *evil* people” think about those things. Sep 05 16:47
[H]omer Or at least “obsess” over them Sep 05 16:47
schestowitz That’s a matter of unbringing. Sep 05 16:47
seller_liar schestowitz: but the people even not to do this Sep 05 16:47
schestowitz The danger is that it pases from one generation to another and is absorbed through an education system of creationism and patents. Sep 05 16:47
schestowitz *upbringing (up on top) Sep 05 16:48
seller_liar schestowitz: yes Sep 05 16:48
seller_liar schestowitz: the sons clones moral parents Sep 05 16:48
schestowitz It used to be the church Sep 05 16:48
schestowitz Now the schools are the “church” Sep 05 16:48
schestowitz teaching people to pray to God for “success” Sep 05 16:48
seller_liar schestowitz:but the big problem Sep 05 16:49
schestowitz Scientology being an extremity. Sep 05 16:49
seller_liar schestowitz: is that parents do not worry about this!!! Sep 05 16:49
schestowitz “Gold Microsoft Partner” being the equivalent of patriarchs of the church. Sep 05 16:50
seller_liar schestowitz: parents only worry about your carrer,job and sex Sep 05 16:50
seller_liar schestowitz: and ,of course Sep 05 16:50
seller_liar schestowitz: Sep 05 16:50
seller_liar schestowitz: protect the sons against the “evil world” Sep 05 16:50
[H]omer Society is divided into three parts – oppressors, the oppressed, and those who fight oppression. My guess would be that the “oppressed” represents the largest majority, with oppressors and those who fight them representing a tiny minority (i.e. good vs evil). Most other people are “neutral” – IOW powerless and ignorant. Sep 05 16:50
schestowitz It’s well concealed in ways Sep 05 16:51
schestowitz Whereas some people in the US live in tent, Hollywood shows houses with a big lawn and a happy family that has 3 cars Sep 05 16:52
seller_liar schestowitz: american dream Sep 05 16:52
schestowitz Yes, it keeps people motivated. Sep 05 16:52
seller_liar schestowitz: holywood is a ilusion Sep 05 16:52
[H]omer Yes that’s the propaganda of the “American Dream” Sep 05 16:52
schestowitz Living chasing a dream forever, until they drop dead. It’s way of encouraging labour. Sep 05 16:52
[H]omer But the underbelly of that “dream” is a nightmare Sep 05 16:53
schestowitz RMS is worth citing again. Sep 05 16:53
seller_liar schestowitz: the american dream seem equal about cinderela Sep 05 16:53
[H]omer It turns out the the “liberty” extolled by that American Dream, is actually just the “Freedom to brutally exploit others”. Sep 05 16:54
schestowitz He said something about this cculture of debt  (house, cars, children). Living under the rule of mortgage monsters (multi-trillion companies) is a like of imprisonment. Sep 05 16:54
seller_liar schestowitz: let ‘see Sep 05 16:54
[H]omer IOW it’s all about money and power. Sep 05 16:54
[H]omer Not altruism Sep 05 16:55
schestowitz Mind you, RMS looks at social issues first. Sep 05 16:55
[H]omer Not real Freedom Sep 05 16:55
seller_liar schestowitz: IOW? Sep 05 16:55
schestowitz He doesn’t care about business, not as a priority. Sep 05 16:55
seller_liar seller_liar: example: Sep 05 16:55
schestowitz I asked him about MySQL’s dual-licensing and he told me. Sep 05 16:55
[H]omer “IOW” = “In Other Words”. Sep 05 16:55
seller_liar [H]omer: ok Sep 05 16:55
seller_liar and… Sep 05 16:55
schestowitz Let me find something. Sep 05 16:55
schestowitz http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/… Sep 05 16:56
schestowitz That one is about copyright monopolies Sep 05 16:56
schestowitz This one is also good: http://blogs.computerworld.com… Sep 05 16:56
schestowitz All are new BTW. “I really don’t care. From my point of view, business issues are minor in comparison with issues of human rights and general well-being.” Sep 05 16:56
seller_liar schestowitz: yes! , of course Sep 05 16:57
[H]omer The FSF philosophy is that money should be a means to an end, not an end unto itself. IOW money and Freedom and not contradictory, but money should not be abused to inhibit Freedom. There’s no problem with making profit, as long as it doesn’t deprive others (greed). Sep 05 16:57
seller_liar schestowitz: but only 5% know about this Sep 05 16:57
schestowitz Less than 5 Sep 05 16:58
schestowitz Maybe 0.5, globally Sep 05 16:58
seller_liar schestowitz: maybe this 5% is hierachical Sep 05 16:58
seller_liar schestowitz: 0.5 thinks a lot about society Sep 05 16:59
[H]omer 0.01% in the US, maybe. Sep 05 16:59
schestowitz 0.5% owns how much of the world’s wealth? Sep 05 16:59
[H]omer They’re “conditioned” to worship greed. Sep 05 16:59
schestowitz [H]omer: got some figures at hand? Sep 05 16:59
[H]omer Just guessing Sep 05 16:59
[H]omer Based on US attitude Sep 05 17:00
schestowitz About wealth distribution Sep 05 17:00
schestowitz It would be nice to see a curve for wealth distibution Sep 05 17:00
[H]omer Ah OK Sep 05 17:00
seller_liar schestowitz: more of 80% of the world is poor Sep 05 17:00
schestowitz Value versus population% Sep 05 17:00
[H]omer I did see figures somewhere, I think it may be in Wiki-P Sep 05 17:01
schestowitz Define “poor”, it’s newspaper speak… Sep 05 17:01
seller_liar schestowitz: poor is people with insuficient per capita Sep 05 17:01
[H]omer http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/200… Sep 05 17:02
schestowitz What’s insufficient? It depends on arbitrary definitons Sep 05 17:02
seller_liar schestowitz: yes, may I am doing a error Sep 05 17:03
[H]omer “The richest 1% of the population have increased their share of national income from around 6% in 1980 to 13% in 1999. The wealthiest 10% of the population now own more than half the country’s wealth – up from 47% to 54% over the past 10 years.” Sep 05 17:03
schestowitz re: “Rich-poor gap ‘has widened under Blair’” is is not true everywhere? Sep 05 17:03
schestowitz Without intervenation, it naturally gravitates like this, until implosion Sep 05 17:03
seller_liar schestowitz: sorry ,a mistake ,forget Sep 05 17:03
schestowitz If the fox guards the hen house,  the gap widens Sep 05 17:05
seller_liar schestowitz: what ? Sep 05 17:05
[H]omer “The top 1% of New York City tax filers now receive more than a third of the city\u2019s adjusted gross income.” ~ http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t… Sep 05 17:06
schestowitz I don’t know if you follow COLA, but Rex Ballard made some excellent posts about McCain openly supporting Microsoft. Sep 05 17:06
[H]omer I can believe it. McCain and the Vole are two rotten peas in a pod. Sep 05 17:07
schestowitz New York has always been an exploitation factory. Sep 05 17:07
seller_liar schestowitz: no, but i will read some info about comp.os Sep 05 17:07
[H]omer Like Icahn(nibal) Sep 05 17:08
seller_liar schestowitz: The big problem is conformism Sep 05 17:08
schestowitz *LOL* Sep 05 17:08
seller_liar schestowitz: why people do nothing aobut this , Sep 05 17:09
schestowitz Ichan,American hero. Learn from this guy, children. Sep 05 17:09
seller_liar schestowitz: Every day people are thinking only…….in sex Sep 05 17:09
schestowitz He’s rich, thereofore he is successful Sep 05 17:09
[H]omer McCain joins Craig Barret; Donald Trump; Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates as one of the world’s most evil men. Sep 05 17:09
schestowitz “Strive not to be a man of success, but rather strive to be a man of value.” –Albert Einstein Sep 05 17:10
[H]omer Einstein was at least as good a philosopher as he was a scientist Sep 05 17:10
schestowitz Exploitation pays. Sep 05 17:11
[H]omer Evil is profitable Sep 05 17:11
schestowitz I heard from a mate that he was rude (?) and viciously competitive. Sep 05 17:11
schestowitz Erdos was like Einstein I think. He didn’t give a s* about money, just maths. Sep 05 17:11
[H]omer Being competitive is fine, as long as that “competition” is fair Sep 05 17:12
[H]omer Microsoft’s breed of competition is just racketeering Sep 05 17:12
schestowitz “You’re just a Microsoft hater” Sep 05 17:13
seller_liar [H]omer:is not fair because some people have advantages Sep 05 17:13
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/micros… Sep 05 17:13
[H]omer I’m going to write a blog post about that word “hater”. It’s propaganda. Sep 05 17:13
schestowitz People drink it. Sep 05 17:13
schestowitz Like the GPL FUD Microsoft passes to innocent new members of the Money Club. Sep 05 17:14
[H]omer seller_liar, as long as society gives everyone an equal opportunity, then competition is fair. Sep 05 17:14
seller_liar [H]omer: This is not true Sep 05 17:14
[H]omer Unfortunately opportunities are often “stolen” from people Sep 05 17:14
schestowitz It’s human’s nature, so there must be regulation Sep 05 17:15
[H]omer seller_liar, it’s not true that everyone has equal opportunities, but we should strive to make it so Sep 05 17:15
schestowitz But regulation softens when money enters the game Sep 05 17:15
schestowitz http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netr… Sep 05 17:16
[H]omer Think about this term “hater” for a minute. Sep 05 17:17
[H]omer What does it actually mean? Sep 05 17:17
schestowitz Good question. Sep 05 17:17
schestowitz It’s philosophical though. Sep 05 17:17
[H]omer It’s like saying “you’re not allowed to dissent” Sep 05 17:17
schestowitz You could wind up thinking about “hate” due to stereotype or due to /injury/ Sep 05 17:17
[H]omer “If you dissent, then you must be motivated by malice, not justifiable reasons”. Sep 05 17:18
schestowitz Xeniphobia is often an artefact of the former Sep 05 17:18
*seller_liar has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 05 17:18
schestowitz The latter is well illustrated by Microsoft direct attacks on many companies and Linux. Sep 05 17:18
schestowitz Tell me about it… Sep 05 17:18
schestowitz Boycott Novell is considered an “anti” site because of the word “boycott” (Shane’s choice, not mine) Sep 05 17:19
[H]omer Also think about this … why would anyone not connected with a company, be so loyal to that company that they’d sabotage the competition, and call anyone who dissents against their company “haters”? Sep 05 17:19
[H]omer What’s the motivation? Sep 05 17:20
[H]omer Is it mindless “fanboy-ism”? Sep 05 17:20
[H]omer Is it just malice? Sep 05 17:20
[H]omer Is it juvenile delinquency? Sep 05 17:21
schestowitz Gymnastics in logic. Sep 05 17:21
schestowitz But it’s well prepared by marketing people and poison pens like Enderle. Sep 05 17:21
schestowitz That is, it’s engineered so as to portray dissent as dangerous and irrational. Sep 05 17:21
schestowitz “I have a hard time seeing the Zealots as any different from terrorist… I strongly believe that if September 11 showed us anything, it was that zealots” — Rob Enderle Sep 05 17:22
[H]omer I mean, let’s say I buy a computer with Windows installed. Why would I care if people said “Windows sucks”. It /does/ – fact. It’s true. Why would I defend Microsoft? What would I gain? Sep 05 17:22
schestowitz “Linux is being widely used on the desktop in the third world, where applications are limited and labor is inexpensive…” — Rob Enderle Sep 05 17:22
schestowitz “many Linux supporters are a bunch of potty-mouthed malcontents. Enterprises are better off staying away from Linux and open source” — Rob Enderle Sep 05 17:22
schestowitz “I saw what appeared to be a word-for-word copy of about every third line of code in the central module of the Linux kernel” — Rob Enderle Sep 05 17:22
schestowitz “I started writing about Linux because I was told I couldn’t and the more people told me I couldn’t, and particularly when they said ‘or else,’ the more the Linux dirty laundry became attractive to me” — Rob Enderle Sep 05 17:23
[H]omer This is why I contend that anyone who defends Microsoft must be connected with them somehow, otherwise there simple is no motivation. Sep 05 17:24
schestowitz He’s connected with them Sep 05 17:24
*benJIman wonders why none of the regulars in this channel (other than schestowitz) contribute to the boyblog. Sep 05 17:24
[H]omer So what does that tell us about Mono, Gnome, et al? Sep 05 17:24
schestowitz Perlow wrote about it. Sep 05 17:24
schestowitz He’s having cocktail parties in Remond (at least one) Sep 05 17:24
schestowitz benJIman: they do Sep 05 17:25
[H]omer Jody Goldberg contributed to the ultimate ratification of OOXML, for example. Sep 05 17:25
schestowitz I don’t think there’s a relationship though. Sep 05 17:25
benJIman schestowitz: I havn’t seen a post by anyone other than you in over a year. Sep 05 17:25
schestowitz That’s selfishness. Sep 05 17:25
[H]omer Di Icaza constantly praises Microsoft … even going for interviews, and fawning over them. Sep 05 17:25
schestowitz benJIman: time for you to read BN Sep 05 17:25
schestowitz Novell’s executives too. Well, they visit Microsoftt Sep 05 17:26
schestowitz In many ways, those two companies are already conjoined. Sep 05 17:26
benJIman schestowitz: Can you link me to an article not posted by you? Sep 05 17:26
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05/27/… Sep 05 17:27
benJIman Oh, you still posted it so I didn’t notice. Sep 05 17:29
benJIman Why don’t you give other people authorship permissions? Sep 05 17:30
[H]omer That’s my article Sep 05 17:30
[H]omer I gave permission Sep 05 17:30
schestowitz benJIman: I had people approach me to write stuff. I asked Shane whether they give them an account. Sep 05 17:31
schestowitz [H]omer: benJIman is an OpenSUSE guy. He was at SUSE (the old one) weeks ago. He stays because he’s polite, but he’s not here to help Sep 05 17:31
[H]omer Fancy’s himself as a “moderator”, does he? Sep 05 17:32
schestowitz It’s a polite heckler more like Sep 05 17:32
schestowitz Like Timmy Funkenbusch Sep 05 17:32
[H]omer just boot him Sep 05 17:33
benJIman No I was wondering why [H]omer and MinceR et al did not post articles. Sep 05 17:33
[H]omer If he’s not part of the solution, he’s part of the problem Sep 05 17:33
*benJIman rofls. Sep 05 17:33
schestowitz Well.. Sep 05 17:33
schestowitz It would be used against us. Sep 05 17:33
schestowitz I don’t delete comments in BN, so I don’t boot people, either. Sep 05 17:34
[H]omer You’re too tolerant. I wouldn’t have the patience for such people. Sep 05 17:35
*benJIman wonders what the solution is. Sep 05 17:37
schestowitz [H]omer: no, just let it be. Sep 05 17:38
schestowitz There’s also FunkyPenguin (andrew), who is another OpenSUSE person. They are usually quiet. Sep 05 17:38
schestowitz benJIman is here to shout out in the opensuse channel is there’s something that requires their intervention (based on what I can gather) Sep 05 17:41
benJIman This channel hardly requires anyone’s intervention. Sep 05 17:42
[H]omer Then why are you here? Sep 05 17:43
[H]omer Are you a Choob-bot by any chance? Sep 05 17:43
benJIman I already said. Sep 05 17:43
[H]omer Humour me Sep 05 17:43
benJIman 14:03:24 < benJIman> I’m here because it’s entertaining. Sep 05 17:43
[H]omer Glad we could help Sep 05 17:44
schestowitz [H]omer: he’s fooling you. Sep 05 17:44
[H]omer Duh Sep 05 17:44
schestowitz He has a history of  shouting out to openSUSE developers, who then resort to r’iots’. Sep 05 17:44
benJIman You are welcome to join the opensuse channels if you don’t believe me. Sep 05 17:44
schestowitz benJIman: what for? For laughs? Sep 05 17:45
schestowitz I haven’t things to find there. Sep 05 17:45
benJIman If you are afraid of what we talk about. Sep 05 17:45
schestowitz It would also be disrespectful for me to join it. Sep 05 17:45
schestowitz I’m already on #mandriva constantly. Sep 05 17:45
benJIman You seem to think we plot against you. Sep 05 17:45
[H]omer Correct me if I’m wrong, but surely OpenSUSE != Novell, so why do you care if someone wants to boycott them? Sep 05 17:45
benJIman [H]omer: I don’t. Sep 05 17:45
[H]omer Not that long ago, Novell wasn’t even a Linux company (Netware) Sep 05 17:46
schestowitz benJIman: you guys bent our arms before we posted some Saturday stuff that’s flattering to you. Sep 05 17:46
schestowitz Besides, you slam everything I write to criticise OpenSUSE, so I’m more cautious. Sep 05 17:46
schestowitz But that need not be the case. Sep 05 17:46
benJIman Well it’s usually inaccurate. Sep 05 17:46
schestowitz [H]omer: Novell is a Linux company?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHA? Sep 05 17:46
schestowitz I’m going trhough Novell news at this very moment. Sep 05 17:47
[H]omer Now it is Sep 05 17:47
schestowitz It’s all about identity management (proprietary) and other such junk. Sep 05 17:47
schestowitz Legacy stuff… Sep 05 17:47
[H]omer It’s like saying that “Microsoft is a Linux company” just because they control SUSE by proxy. Sep 05 17:47
benJIman Control suse eh. Sep 05 17:48
[H]omer Yes. Sep 05 17:48
benJIman In what way? Sep 05 17:48
[H]omer Novell owns SUSE. Microsoft pwnes Novell. Sep 05 17:48
schestowitz be sure Miucrosoft brags about it. Sep 05 17:49
[H]omer It’s part of their little “protection” racket. Sep 05 17:49
schestowitz Just days ago, Ramj used Novell/SUSE to argue that Mcirosoft and FOSS are buddies. Sep 05 17:49
[H]omer OpenSUSE, OTOH is a community distro. Sep 05 17:49
benJIman It’s openSUSE btw. Sep 05 17:49
schestowitz This may not fool you, but it’s good enough to use against the Judge Jacksons and Neelies of the world. Sep 05 17:50
[H]omer We shouldn’t blame openSUSE for Novell’s mmistakes Sep 05 17:50
schestowitz it’s OpenSUSE Sep 05 17:50
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