Comments on: Greg Kroah-Hartman (Novell Hacker) Insults Ubuntu http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/ Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:39:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Roy Schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-27/#comment-24841 Roy Schestowitz Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:59:44 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24841 <blockquote> I always remember one of the main arguments of open source being “everyone can work on what they’re interested in!” </blockquote> Maybe Canonical isn't feeling 'itchy' in the kernel dept.

I always remember one of the main arguments of open source being “everyone can work on what they’re interested in!”

Maybe Canonical isn’t feeling ‘itchy’ in the kernel dept.

]]> By: RyanT http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-26/#comment-24839 RyanT Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:50:09 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24839 @ Ian I never said there was. I was pointing out that in measuring contributions, you must remember company sizes and priorities. It's been pointed out in many places - the definition of ecosystem being hazy, ignoring Mark Shuttleworths own clarifications about where Ubuntu and Canonical are specifically aiming, and writing off recent announcements of upped development support in several areas. I always remember one of the main arguments of open source being "everyone can work on what they're interested in!" before making the switch, amongst many others to the same effect. Then you get constant crap like this where people start cat fights because not everyone is working on what they're interested in. @ Ian

I never said there was. I was pointing out that in measuring contributions, you must remember company sizes and priorities.

It’s been pointed out in many places – the definition of ecosystem being hazy, ignoring Mark Shuttleworths own clarifications about where Ubuntu and Canonical are specifically aiming, and writing off recent announcements of upped development support in several areas.

I always remember one of the main arguments of open source being “everyone can work on what they’re interested in!” before making the switch, amongst many others to the same effect. Then you get constant crap like this where people start cat fights because not everyone is working on what they’re interested in.

]]> By: Roy Schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-26/#comment-24827 Roy Schestowitz Tue, 23 Sep 2008 19:36:06 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24827 Just published: http://ostatic.com/173422-blog/the-open-source-contributions-of-six-blind-men-and-an-elephant "<em>Herein lies the problem.</em> "<em>Kroah-Hartman works on the kernel, the "Linux ecosystem." He was delivering an address at a conference geared to a particular audience -- people who work on the core of the Linux system. In this light, his arguments appear completely valid. He couldn't rightly comment on other areas of development, as they weren't in the scope of his experience, or the conference's focus. This is also well within reason.</em" Just published:

http://ostatic.com/173422-blog/the-open-source-contributions-of-six-blind-men-and-an-elephant

“Herein lies the problem.

“Kroah-Hartman works on the kernel, the “Linux ecosystem.” He was delivering an address at a conference geared to a particular audience — people who work on the core of the Linux system. In this light, his arguments appear completely valid. He couldn’t rightly comment on other areas of development, as they weren’t in the scope of his experience, or the conference’s focus. This is also well within reason.

]]> By: Roy Schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-26/#comment-24814 Roy Schestowitz Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:41:05 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24814 I think (but I have not verified) that those 200 or so people are not all developers. Some are assigned marketing roles and some such. Novell has that centralised. [Again, I'm not sure.] I think (but I have not verified) that those 200 or so people are not all developers. Some are assigned marketing roles and some such. Novell has that centralised.

[Again, I'm not sure.]

]]> By: Dan O'Brian http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-26/#comment-24806 Dan O'Brian Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:19:56 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24806 What's that got to do with anything? As already pointed out, the Novell Linux group is only 330, not much more than Canonical's. Not to mention it wouldn't have been difficult for them to ship the kernel-oops reporter even if it was only a handful of developers. It's not like Canonical has to write their own tool. What’s that got to do with anything? As already pointed out, the Novell Linux group is only 330, not much more than Canonical’s.

Not to mention it wouldn’t have been difficult for them to ship the kernel-oops reporter even if it was only a handful of developers. It’s not like Canonical has to write their own tool.

]]> By: Roy Schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-26/#comment-24802 Roy Schestowitz Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:20:34 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24802 If only they were a large company. They were just a few dozen people a couple of years ago. If only they were a large company. They were just a few dozen people a couple of years ago.

]]> By: Dan O'Brian http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-25/#comment-24799 Dan O'Brian Tue, 23 Sep 2008 13:11:56 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24799 So Ubuntu is going to start shipping a kernel bug-reporting tool that Red Hat and Novell are <i>already</i> shipping, and likely actually contributed to. Grats. </sarcasm> That doesn't change anything, they should have been doing that for a while now. So Ubuntu is going to start shipping a kernel bug-reporting tool that Red Hat and Novell are already shipping, and likely actually contributed to.

Grats.
</sarcasm>

That doesn’t change anything, they should have been doing that for a while now.

]]> By: Roy Schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-25/#comment-24790 Roy Schestowitz Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:29:29 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24790 <b>Update</b>: for future reference, the post below might be of interest. <h3>Oops! Ubuntu IS gearing up for more kernel contribution</h3> <em>"Ubuntu is on the verge of fully participating in the Kernel Oops project run by Intel's Arjan van de Ven (i've interviewed him before, great guy and an awesome project). Kernel Oops is an incredibly valuable effort that tracks 'oopses' on Linux and provides information so kernel developers can fix bugs. So far Kernel oops has been part of the default installation on Red Hat's Fedora and is available to Novell OpenSUSE users as well..it soon may beavailable by default to Ubuntu users too."</em> http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2008/09/oops-ubuntu-is-gearing-up-for.html Update: for future reference, the post below might be of interest.

Oops! Ubuntu IS gearing up for more kernel contribution

“Ubuntu is on the verge of fully participating in the Kernel Oops project run by Intel’s Arjan van de Ven (i’ve interviewed him before, great guy and an awesome project). Kernel Oops is an incredibly valuable effort that tracks ‘oopses’ on Linux and provides information so kernel developers can fix bugs. So far Kernel oops has been part of the default installation on Red Hat’s Fedora and is available to Novell OpenSUSE users as well..it soon may beavailable by default to Ubuntu users too.”

http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2008/09/oops-ubuntu-is-gearing-up-for.html

]]> By: Ian http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-25/#comment-24781 Ian Tue, 23 Sep 2008 01:36:29 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24781 @RyanT "In this case, yes, it is unfair of a much larger corporation like Novell to pick on a comparatively small child like Canonical. There’s already been rebuttals in several places, per the links Roy posted and others" GregKH is a Novell employee, not the entire company. He's a single developer. He doesn't drive, at least directly, the vision and goals of a company. The only mentions of Novell are in the slides, and they don't even paint Novell as the golden child of committed patches. They actually give a nod to Novell's real competitor and market leader in the enterprise linux realm(red hat). Moreover, it's about Linux and some of the related tool chain, not open source or the linux desktop in general. Sometimes there's just no conspiracy there. @RyanT

“In this case, yes, it is unfair of a much larger corporation like Novell to pick on a comparatively small child like Canonical. There’s already been rebuttals in several places, per the links Roy posted and others”

GregKH is a Novell employee, not the entire company. He’s a single developer. He doesn’t drive, at least directly, the vision and goals of a company. The only mentions of Novell are in the slides, and they don’t even paint Novell as the golden child of committed patches. They actually give a nod to Novell’s real competitor and market leader in the enterprise linux realm(red hat). Moreover, it’s about Linux and some of the related tool chain, not open source or the linux desktop in general.

Sometimes there’s just no conspiracy there.

]]> By: stevetheFLY http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-25/#comment-24716 stevetheFLY Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:24:00 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24716 One of you guys is looking like a pig-headed fool now, and it isn't Alex. <font color="#ff0000"><b>Note</b>: comment has been flagged for arriving from a possible incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, <a href="http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/22/eet-strommael-gmx-net/" rel="nofollow">abusive</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll" rel="nofollow">Internet troll</a> that posts from <a href="http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/27/eet-proxies/" title="The ‘eet’ Nuisance Has Many Proxies/Indentities" rel="nofollow">open proxies and relays around the world</a>.</font> One of you guys is looking like a pig-headed fool now, and it isn’t Alex.

Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a possible incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

]]> By: AlexH http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-25/#comment-24715 AlexH Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:50:56 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24715 My new rule is that I only ask the same thing three times; it would be easier if you just say you're not going to answer something rather than evade the question, though. My new rule is that I only ask the same thing three times; it would be easier if you just say you’re not going to answer something rather than evade the question, though.

]]> By: Roy Schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-24/#comment-24714 Roy Schestowitz Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:48:53 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24714 It did not help Microsoft game the system. It did not help Microsoft game the system.

]]> By: AlexH http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-24/#comment-24713 AlexH Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:46:59 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24713 But what are you trying to argue in terms of Sun's development of OOXML code? But what are you trying to argue in terms of Sun’s development of OOXML code?

]]> By: Roy Schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-24/#comment-24712 Roy Schestowitz Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:37:16 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24712 I argue that Novell's role helped Microsoft corrupt the process (Novell, received money for this, did it not?) and also helped Microsoft remove some barriers to OOXML use. I argue that Novell’s role helped Microsoft corrupt the process (Novell, received money for this, did it not?) and also helped Microsoft remove some barriers to OOXML use.

]]> By: AlexH http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-24/#comment-24711 AlexH Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:26:09 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24711 Whatever you're trying to shift the conversation onto, it doesn't matter: we were talking about Sun putting OOXML into OpenOffice.org, which you were suggesting Novell were doing. Are you suggesting that if Novell hadn't participated in TC45, that Sun wouldn't be implementing it now? Whatever you’re trying to shift the conversation onto, it doesn’t matter: we were talking about Sun putting OOXML into OpenOffice.org, which you were suggesting Novell were doing.

Are you suggesting that if Novell hadn’t participated in TC45, that Sun wouldn’t be implementing it now?

]]> By: Roy Schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-24/#comment-24710 Roy Schestowitz Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:21:55 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24710 We had this debate before. Novell supported OOXML in a way (it's a matter of timing too) which helped Microsoft. It's a chicken-and-egg situation. We had this debate before. Novell supported OOXML in a way (it’s a matter of timing too) which helped Microsoft. It’s a chicken-and-egg situation.

]]> By: AlexH http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-23/#comment-24709 AlexH Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:20:22 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24709 So now you <em>are</em> arguing it was about use? Which argument are you trying to make? You can't argue two conflicting points of view simultaneously. So now you are arguing it was about use?

Which argument are you trying to make? You can’t argue two conflicting points of view simultaneously.

]]> By: Roy Schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-23/#comment-24708 Roy Schestowitz Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:19:12 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24708 Use can be spurred by standardisation, never mind if <a href="http://boycottnovell.com/ooxml-abuse-index/" rel="nofollow">corruption was involved in it</a>. Use can be spurred by standardisation, never mind if corruption was involved in it.

]]> By: AlexH http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-23/#comment-24707 AlexH Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:16:58 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24707 You said that if Novell hadn't "pushed" for OOXML, it might not have been necessary for Sun to implement it, but now you're only talking about ISO standardisation? I don't see any logical connection whatsoever. You said that if Novell hadn’t “pushed” for OOXML, it might not have been necessary for Sun to implement it, but now you’re only talking about ISO standardisation?

I don’t see any logical connection whatsoever.

]]> By: Roy Schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/comment-page-23/#comment-24706 Roy Schestowitz Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:13:59 +0000 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/kroah-hartman-ms-vanity/#comment-24706 No, I was not talking about inevitability of /use/. I was talking about standardisation. Without Novell's help, it would be harder to ram it down ISO's throat. No, I was not talking about inevitability of /use/. I was talking about standardisation. Without Novell’s help, it would be harder to ram it down ISO’s throat.

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