09.24.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 23rd, 2008 - Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:46 am by Roy Schestowitz

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twitter	OhLoh? 1.5% for C# is almost crappy enough to be true.	Sep 23 00:17
schestowitz	I’ll write about it tomorrow.	Sep 23 00:17
schestowitz	It’s the neighbours you don’t want.	Sep 23 00:18
twitter	Ho, ho, ho, now they offer PhDs in FUD. http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid…	Sep 23 00:24
twitter	What assholes.	Sep 23 00:26
schestowitz	Old news.	Sep 23 00:26
schestowitz	They have been doing such stuff for a while.	Sep 23 00:26
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/08/trust-…	Sep 23 00:27
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schestowitz	Oh, that’s really nice. I asked Sutor about IBM and patents here < http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=2599 > and he won’t even approve the comment because he’s afraid of the question.	Sep 23 07:05
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schestowitz	http://www.itwire.com/content/view/20762/1148/ “No matter the amount that someone will have to pay for downloading the codecs, this means one thing - Ubuntu is no longer free. It is a commercial distribution. One can indulge in semantics all one wishes but a distribution which cannot play a DVD is something that nobody will use these days.”	Sep 23 08:35
schestowitz	Even Castro ‘gets’ Ubuntu: http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=848966	Sep 23 08:43
kentma	One wonders just who Mr Shuttleworth is trying to please…	Sep 23 08:43
schestowitz	Too many people. He can’t make everyone happy.	Sep 23 08:44
kentma	He might be looking for a way into Businesses here. Perhaps this is the only route in the US, where playing DVDs is, apparently, illegal unless you pay an additional tax.	Sep 23 08:45
schestowitz	The problem is that Dellbuntu buyers in the UK pay that tax too, without an option to opt out.	Sep 23 08:47
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schestowitz	Hm… it’s disappointing to find Daniel Eran using the Gartnersofts to FUD Android on its launch day < http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/09… >. The Partner Group also attacked iPhone along with IDC, so why does he befriend their oracle-like spew?	Sep 23 09:17
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benJIman	Sam Varghese in trolling shocker.	Sep 23 09:58
schestowitz	nod	Sep 23 09:59
schestowitz	The headline is the giveaway, the body is OK from what I’ve seen. it’s almost as though he calls Ubuntu users “virgins”	Sep 23 10:00
schestowitz	http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/lpc_2008…	Sep 23 10:04
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chrislees	Top-5 Boycott Novell phrases:	Sep 23 11:28
chrislees	5. SCO	Sep 23 11:28
chrislees	4. Illegal Monopoly	Sep 23 11:28
chrislees	3. Mono	Sep 23 11:28
chrislees	2. ISO fast-tracking OOXML approval process	Sep 23 11:28
chrislees	1. Microsoft Proxy	Sep 23 11:28
chrislees	Now here’s a transcript from our IRC channel…	Sep 23 11:28
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zoobab	http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-91368/microsoft-recycles-…	Sep 23 11:32
schestowitz	Are these hired shills?	Sep 23 11:34
schestowitz	I mean, having seen how Microsoft hired shills via LawMedia, it’s a legitimate question.	Sep 23 11:34
zoobab	those are their Business Partners Networks	Sep 23 11:42
zoobab	because we have friends from inside	Sep 23 11:42
schestowitz	zoobab: you want to see http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122211669…	Sep 23 11:42
schestowitz	I also mailed you another one. The Google News link was broken (WSJ), so I had to scoop it up differently. Might IBM quit ISO?	Sep 23 11:43
zoobab	http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-9…	Sep 23 11:43
schestowitz	Ah!	Sep 23 11:43
zoobab	I think they might quit ECMA faster	Sep 23 11:43
schestowitz	What?!?!	Sep 23 11:43
schestowitz	They were in ECMA?	Sep 23 11:43
zoobab	you are not subscribed to the RSS feed?	Sep 23 11:43
zoobab	of course they were	Sep 23 11:43
zoobab	the were alone	Sep 23 11:43
schestowitz	I was appalled that they were with CompTIA in the distant past.	Sep 23 11:43
zoobab	they were alone against OOXML	Sep 23 11:44
schestowitz	zoobab: I am, just not reached it yet.	Sep 23 11:44
zoobab	all the other ones were captured	Sep 23 11:44
schestowitz	Sun too?	Sep 23 11:44
schestowitz	Why didn’t /Sun/ protest?	Sep 23 11:46
schestowitz	http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=14764211 “Open Document Format (ODF) could find its way as becoming an open standard for e-governance projects by the Indian government and help its supporters grab key government IT business, according to government officials and industry sources.”	Sep 23 11:48
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berry	Looks like the American tax _payer_ is gonna lose some $9000: http://beranger.org/index.php?pag…	Sep 23 12:01
schestowitz	http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080…	Sep 23 12:01
schestowitz	Hey, benJIman	Sep 23 12:01
schestowitz	UK too.	Sep 23 12:01
schestowitz	http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics…	Sep 23 12:02
berry	The UK doesn’t have a real economy anymore	Sep 23 12:02
schestowitz	“He was speaking after an influential report said that Britain may have to borrow £90 billion next year – almost twice as much as the Chancellor had expected – to deal with the ramifications of the global credit crisis.”	Sep 23 12:02
schestowitz	51st state. :-p	Sep 23 12:02
benJIman	I don’t know why you’re worried about it, you’re presumably not paying tax.	Sep 23 12:02
berry	I’m just a hypocrite	Sep 23 12:03
kentma	benJIman: I think you need to learn some economics …	Sep 23 12:03
schestowitz	benJIman: trolling again, eh?	Sep 23 12:03
kentma	… instead of reading “teach yourself economics”, which would be a better bet	Sep 23 12:05
benJIman	^,^	Sep 23 12:05
schestowitz	I ping the wrong person b-e-AUTOCOMPLETE.	Sep 23 12:05
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twitter	$9000, they can take it from the money I don’t have for the occupation of Iraq.	Sep 23 13:13
schestowitz	twitter: I attributed here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/23/inde…	Sep 23 13:18
twitter		Sep 23 13:21
twitter	I think you meant that there’s no evidence M$ funded the Stanford course, not that the predatory practices advocated in it were “innocent”	Sep 23 13:25
schestowitz	Well, yeah..	Sep 23 13:27
schestowitz	I didn’t take ambiguity into consideration.	Sep 23 13:28
twitter	The whole point of the class, and most M$ propaganda, is that these anti-social practices are natural, prevalent and deserving of reward.	Sep 23 13:29
twitter	Copyright and patent injustice stands on people believing that propaganda.	Sep 23 13:30
schestowitz	Well, that too. People can justify selfish action in many ways. In his own eyes, Gates thinks he’s a hero saving the world with binaries.	Sep 23 13:31
schestowitz	Likewise, people who work in telemarketing believe they bring benefit to aociety.	Sep 23 13:32
twitter	Sadly enough, most people think M$ is a legitimate business and a net benefit to society. I’m not sure Gates is so naive. He has to be aware of the negative effects of patents on medicine, yet he still pushes them.	Sep 23 13:33
schestowitz	Vocally too. Let me find something.	Sep 23 13:36
schestowitz	http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3…	Sep 23 13:36
twitter	The only person I know who did telemarketing realized what they were doing but did it anyway. She later dug through the credit records of all the people she knew and memorized embarrassing details.	Sep 23 13:36
schestowitz	But wait… it’s missing the part where he equated software patents to drug patents, IIRC.	Sep 23 13:37
schestowitz	Gates: ‘”I think if you invent drugs, you should be able to charge for them [...] that may seem radical.” http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2008/04/…	Sep 23 13:38
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schestowitz	To gates, software=drugs. It figures.	Sep 23 13:39
schestowitz	Bill Gates: “They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.”	Sep 23 13:40
twitter	Gates taxes things that people need. The way he does it destroys value instead of creating it.	Sep 23 13:42
twitter	Recreational drug use has been a successful troll for Mr. Gates. It trivializes the harm he does and stigmatizes his opponents.	Sep 23 13:44
twitter	Information is more like oxygen or water than recreational drugs and other entertainment. The copyright warriors do the same thing by accusing their free press opponents of being “pirates” who just want cheap entertainment.	Sep 23 13:45
schestowitz	Drugs as software: a poor, yet self-serving, analogy.	Sep 23 13:52
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twitter		Sep 23 14:42
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PetoKraus	ah, i forgot to tell you	Sep 23 14:42
PetoKraus	virgin didn’t set us up an account, because both of us are running linux	Sep 23 14:43
PetoKraus	and they needed windows to do that	Sep 23 14:43
PetoKraus	so, i have to spend money on registration. Dickheads.	Sep 23 14:43
PetoKraus	(spend money -> call them by phone)	Sep 23 14:43
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twitter	ha ha, http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Conservative_commentator_Bill_O…	Sep 23 16:10
twitter	nasty, they used ‘ in the url.	Sep 23 16:11
twitter	http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?…	Sep 23 16:11
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twitter	Apache on Windows, a hyped combination of doom	Sep 23 16:11
MinceR	lol	Sep 23 16:16
MinceR	at least it isn’t iis on windows	Sep 23 16:16
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schestowitz	twitter: yes, I checked that some days ago.	Sep 23 16:19
schestowitz	It’s Apache on Winders.	Sep 23 16:19
schestowitz	PetoKraus: you get what you pay for. [sarcasm /]	Sep 23 16:20
PetoKraus	hehe	Sep 23 16:21
PetoKraus	schestowitz: yeah, i’ve been calling them right now	Sep 23 16:21
PetoKraus	the woman said the only OS they support is Windoze	Sep 23 16:21
schestowitz	LOL Just got back. Got an E-mail from Mary Jo Foley… about AstroTurfing.	Sep 23 16:21
PetoKraus	5 minutes later she says - our system is really slowed down	Sep 23 16:21
twitter	that should be interesting	Sep 23 16:22
_Doug	SCO Seems to Be Trying to Ramp Up AutoZone ..	Sep 23 16:24
_Doug	http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s…	Sep 23 16:24
_Doug	“Remind me again of what exactly Autozone is allegidly guilty of. Writing their own app on top of OpenServer and then transferign it to Red HAt ?”	Sep 23 16:24
schestowitz	Clinging onto anything.	Sep 23 16:26
schestowitz	York! IBM! Our header files! The UNIX IP… now Autozone… please, give us time, your honour, we’ll find some weapon… somewhere.	Sep 23 16:27
_Doug	The whole case is an excercise in legalistic obsfucation and fud, but burried under it all are some basic technical answers ..	Sep 23 16:29
_Doug	What did Autozone allegidly do, technically speaking ?	Sep 23 16:30
schestowitz	Doesn’t matter. Will _take time to find out_. That’s the ‘beauty’ of it.	Sep 23 16:31
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_Doug	It does matter, as without such answers SCO can go on filing responses to responceses to responses as to what A said B said that misintrepreted what D said ..	Sep 23 16:32
schestowitz	Yes, that’s my point. That’s what SCO wants.	Sep 23 16:34
_Doug	SCO are happy to continue in litigation, that’s the whole point of the exercise ..	Sep 23 16:34
schestowitz	They file many motions (or ‘many’) to delay because they /might/ get a cash infusion.	Sep 23 16:34
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schestowitz	_Doug: you would too had you had no products. They are toast, but they serves the interests of some others now.	Sep 23 16:35
_Doug	” the limited discovery ordered by this Court has uncovered extensive copying .. of .. SCO proprietary OpenServer code”	Sep 23 16:35
_Doug	OK, show me the CODE …	Sep 23 16:36
_Doug	“Mr. Celmer’s actual testimony was that AutoZone’s purpose was to change the source code for all of AutoZone’s programs such that they could be recompiled to work on Linux, not to modify AutoZone’s binaries to work on Linux as stated by SCO in its report”	Sep 23 16:39
_Doug	http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.p…	Sep 23 16:39
_Doug	So, why invoke AutoZone just right now ?	Sep 23 16:40
schestowitz	Hey, what if someone paid a shiny one to AutoZone to ‘play along’?	Sep 23 16:41
schestowitz	Think about it. There are some $companies out there who would benefit from guilt-fakers.	Sep 23 16:41
_Doug	I don’t follow ?	Sep 23 16:41
_Doug	SCO sent the AutoZone judge a letter .. what if anytthing is AutoZone doing to ‘play along’ ?	Sep 23 16:42
schestowitz	“I saw what appeared to be a word-for-word copy of about every third line of code in the central module of the Linux kernel” — Rob Enderle (regarding SCO)	Sep 23 16:42
_Doug	supposition counceler: motion denied …	Sep 23 16:42
schestowitz	supposition canceler	Sep 23 16:43
schestowitz	[Allow \| Deny] Pick! Quick!	Sep 23 16:43
*MinceR picks the \|		Sep 23 16:44
_Doug	http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=scoxq.pk $3,349	Sep 23 16:44
_Doug	What is SCO currently earning in the market place, apart from cash infusions from ‘investors’ ..	Sep 23 16:46
schestowitz	ME.INC?	Sep 23 16:46
_Doug	Where is Me Inc getting its revenue from?	Sep 23 16:49
schestowitz	This is weird… just got some mail assigning me to review papers. WTF? Are they looking for free labour?	Sep 23 16:50
schestowitz	“A reviewer account has been created for you on Concepts in Magnetic Resonance Part B - Manuscript Central site for online submission and review.”	Sep 23 16:50
schestowitz	_Doug: didn’t we talk about Me Inc before? (in IRC)	Sep 23 16:52
_Doug	“Me, Inc., 355 South 520 West, Suite 100, Lindon, Utah”	Sep 23 16:53
_Doug	“Canopy Office Building II, 355 South 520 West, Lindon, Utah”	Sep 23 16:53
_Doug		Sep 23 16:53
schestowitz	e did. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/24/irc-log-…	Sep 23 16:53
schestowitz	I then wrote about it here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0…	Sep 23 16:54
schestowitz	:-S Me Inc is in China, no?	Sep 23 16:54
schestowitz	Maybe it’s a shell company created by SCO to serve as pseudo ‘customer’ [sarcasm /]	Sep 23 16:54
_Doug	NO WAY: you are soo cynical ..	Sep 23 16:55
schestowitz	The LF has just grown a bit: http://www.finextra.com/fullstory.asp?id=19022	Sep 23 16:55
schestowitz	A friend of mine says that Microsoft’s main money flow (revenue and all) is buying and selling its own stock.	Sep 23 16:56
_Doug	Well, people can say what they want ..	Sep 23 16:57
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_Doug	IF MS tanks right now then the whole IT sector wil sink with it ..	Sep 23 16:58
_Doug	Too many people have invested in it ..	Sep 23 16:58
schestowitz	No, _Doug. That would not happen.	Sep 23 16:59
schestowitz	The wealth was never distributed equally anyway.	Sep 23 16:59
schestowitz	Let me look something up.	Sep 23 16:59
_Doug	Personally if I wanted to make money out of the Desktop, I would sell my own stack or buy MS shares. Apple is content to be a niche player ..	Sep 23 16:59
schestowitz	apc magazine on what if Microsoft disappeared: http://apcmag.com/2007_a_world_without_microsoft.htm	Sep 23 17:00
_Doug	a stack being: a multi-media desktop + my own Operating System + my own Telecom company + my own content …	Sep 23 17:00
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schestowitz	“Content”… you sound like a mystic shark.	Sep 23 17:00
_Doug	MS has divered a lot recently, a lot of non IT busineses, media and so on ..	Sep 23 17:01
schestowitz	divered?	Sep 23 17:01
_Doug	diversified ?	Sep 23 17:02
schestowitz	So what? It doesn’t make the world more dependent.	Sep 23 17:02
schestowitz	Drug dealers diversity too, now that’s dependence.	Sep 23 17:02
_Doug	If MS dissapeared, then the vacuum would be replaced by third party embedded devices.	Sep 23 17:02
_Doug	For the MS stock-holders it wouldn’t be such a good thing ..	Sep 23 17:03
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schestowitz	Na.. don’t give me that.	Sep 23 17:05
schestowitz	Microsoft investors are not ones to be sympathised with… they are not out in the streets. They already invest in an anti-social entity and they can afford it.	Sep 23 17:06
_Doug	You’re a bit too emotive, like the scorpion and the tortoise, it’s only following its true nature ..	Sep 23 17:07
schestowitz	What do you want me to say?	Sep 23 17:08
schestowitz	This isn’t the beauty and the Beast where you can tame and educate the beast.	Sep 23 17:09
_Doug	Think of MS as short-hand for a particular way of doing business ..	Sep 23 17:09
schestowitz	Universally speaking, it’s detrimental. Ask people who can’t afford it.	Sep 23 17:09
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_Doug	Read up on the railroads in an earlier century ..	Sep 23 17:11
_Doug	http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/database-soup/of-rai…	Sep 23 17:12
_Doug	Same reason there are four StarBuks in every street ..	Sep 23 17:12
schestowitz	From 2007	Sep 23 17:12
_Doug	Drive the competition out and then jack up the price ..	Sep 23 17:13
_Doug	It’s market capitolism at its best	Sep 23 17:13
schestowitz	Let me read. And Starbucks (WA, USA)is killing local stores. That’s /no/ good.	Sep 23 17:13
schestowitz	They pay minimum wage and the money is streamed to some millionaires across the Atlantic in the 99th floor of some space needle.	Sep 23 17:13
_Doug	“Crippleware is not open source”	Sep 23 17:14
_Doug	Think of much you have to spend once you get your brand new computer home from the shop.	Sep 23 17:14
_Doug	Services and upgrades, to get it to do something, or timed out software …	Sep 23 17:14
_Doug	You have amoral duty to go into hock to buy the latest gizmo, it is your duty as a consumeer ..	Sep 23 17:17
_Doug	“a moral”	Sep 23 17:17
_Doug		Sep 23 17:17
schestowitz	Searching for “partiotic dury varghese buy microsoft”	Sep 23 17:18
schestowitz	http://www.it-director.com/enterprise/other/…	Sep 23 17:19
schestowitz	“That seemed to be the message at the London launch of Microsoft Vista, Office 2007 and Exchange 2007 on 30 November 2006. Gordon Frazer, Microsoft’s UK managing director, devoted most his opening speech to a gallimaufry of statistics and quotations intended to show that buying these new offerings would somehow make Britain more competitive.”	Sep 23 17:19
schestowitz	Headline:	Sep 23 17:20
schestowitz	Buy Microsoft, it’s your patriotic duty	Sep 23 17:20
_Doug	Never ming MS, lets call it the Nike economy. A western company with at most 500 employees manufactures footware in the third-world for 50c a hour and sell it in the west for £70 a time. The stock holders of which do very well.	Sep 23 17:21
schestowitz	that’s modern-age slavery.	Sep 23 17:22
schestowitz	Just because you say (to justify/remove/waive guilt) that you do them a favour to give them a job doesn’t make it any better.	Sep 23 17:23
_Doug	hey what are you - a commie	Sep 23 17:23
schestowitz	*by giving	Sep 23 17:23
schestowitz	No, it’s exploitation, slavery.	Sep 23 17:24
schestowitz	Different words meaning pretty much the same thing (one is good for embellishment)	Sep 23 17:24
_Doug	back later … comrade !	Sep 23 17:27
schestowitz	Let me get my olive-coloured t-shirt…	Sep 23 17:28
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schestowitz	Good talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo	Sep 23 18:45
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schestowitz	zoobab: I’ll produce an ogg of that EPO protest vid, so in case you’re interested…	Sep 23 20:15
schestowitz	Watch this one: Writing Qt and KDE apps in Mono Visual Basic < http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3696 >	Sep 23 20:15
schestowitz	Richard Dale is behind it, which is not so surprising. That’s the guy who has been adding Mono/C# patches to KDE some weeks in August. The comment says: “Kind of the obvious question, does VB have any merit? Like are there actually developers who like VB but are scared by C#?”	Sep 23 20:17
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zoobab	ok	Sep 23 20:19
trmanco	“A computer is like air conditioning, it becomes useless when you open windows.”	Sep 23 20:29
schestowitz	Linus	Sep 23 20:29
trmanco	it’s from Linus?	Sep 23 20:30
trmanco	I don’t really know, I copied it from an email sig	Sep 23 20:30
schestowitz	Yes.	Sep 23 20:30
schestowitz	“Talk is cheap. Show me the code.”	Sep 23 20:30
schestowitz	“I’m doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won’t be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones.”	Sep 23 20:30
trmanco	yes that one I know	Sep 23 20:30
schestowitz	“Software is like sex: it’s better when it’s free.”	Sep 23 20:30
schestowitz	“Software patents are a huge potential threat to the ability of people to work together on open source. Making it easier for companies and communities that have patents to make those patents available in a common pool for people to use is one way to try to help developers deal with the threat.”	Sep 23 20:30
trmanco	won’t be big :P…	Sep 23 20:30
trmanco	the software sex one is my favorite	Sep 23 20:31
schestowitz	“One of the questions I’ve always hated answering is how do people make money in open source. And I think that Caldera and Red Hat — and there are a number of other Linux companies going public — basically show that yes, you can actually make money in the open-source area.”	Sep 23 20:31
schestowitz	I’ll get to that too.	Sep 23 20:31
schestowitz	“It just makes it even harder for people to even approach the (open source) side, when they then end up having to worry about … public humiliation.”	Sep 23 20:31
schestowitz	“When it comes to software, I much prefer free software, because I have very seldom seen a program that has worked well enough for my needs, and having sources available can be a life-saver.”	Sep 23 20:31
schestowitz	He doesnt’ say “open source”	Sep 23 20:31
schestowitz	Alan Cox to Eric Raymond: “That would be because we believe in Free Software and doing the right thing (a practice you appear to have given up on). Maybe it is time the term ‘open source’ also did the decent thing and died out with you.”	Sep 23 20:31
schestowitz	Sometimes he says open source.	Sep 23 20:32
schestowitz	“Anybody who tells me I can’t use a program because it’s not open source, go suck on rms. I’m not interested. 99% of that I run tends to be open source, but that’s _my_ choice, dammit.”	Sep 23 20:32
trmanco	lol	Sep 23 20:32
trmanco	rms?	Sep 23 20:32
schestowitz	Richard Stallman.	Sep 23 20:33
trmanco		Sep 23 20:33
schestowitz	Richard Stallman: “Giving the Linus Torvalds Award to the Free Software Foundation is a bit like giving the Han Solo Award to the Rebel Alliance.”	Sep 23 20:33
trmanco	lol	Sep 23 20:33
schestowitz	Maybe I should do some posts now.	Sep 23 20:34
trmanco	ok	Sep 23 20:35
schestowitz	Can’t let the trolls have a break.	Sep 23 20:35
trmanco	they will never stop	Sep 23 20:38
trmanco	they aren’t even harassing me yet, but by just reading what they right pisses me off	Sep 23 20:39
trmanco	write*	Sep 23 20:39
schestowitz	I know, but if they get a break, they’ll have room for libel and declare ‘victory’. Now is the time of change (we’re past the tipping point). Microsoft and debt….	Sep 23 20:39
AlbertoP	<schestowitz> Can’t let the trolls have a break. <— cough…I need something for my cough!	Sep 23 20:40
*benJIman hands AlbertoP a strepsil.		Sep 23 20:40
schestowitz	AlbertoP, you’re biased.	Sep 23 20:40
schestowitz	I’m talking about Microsoft’s ‘dudes’	Sep 23 20:40
schestowitz	…Who, I might add, are getting harder to tell apart from Novell people (I’m not talking about OpenSUSE)	Sep 23 20:41
schestowitz	(just to clarify, I was talking about USENET posts)	Sep 23 20:41
AlbertoP	hehe well, Novell, opensuse…you’re speaking of exactly the same people ^^	Sep 23 20:41
schestowitz	There’s some overlap.	Sep 23 20:41
AlbertoP	some?	Sep 23 20:41
schestowitz	But… SUSE is mainly engineers, not manager.	Sep 23 20:42
schestowitz	*managers	Sep 23 20:42
AlbertoP	well, suse is novell now ^^	Sep 23 20:42
schestowitz	Yes, some. Not all are paid by Novell.	Sep 23 20:42
schestowitz	OpenSUSE can	Sep 23 20:42
AlbertoP	Oo	Sep 23 20:42
schestowitz	still walk away with the code.	Sep 23 20:42
AlbertoP	99% are paid by Novell ¬¬	Sep 23 20:42
schestowitz	Though the trademark is Novell’s	Sep 23 20:42
schestowitz	Do you or Ben know if Novell holds a trademark on OpenSUSE(TM)	Sep 23 20:42
schestowitz	AlbertoP: you too??	Sep 23 20:43
schestowitz	I’m talking about volunteers too.	Sep 23 20:43
AlbertoP	how many volunteers do you think contribute code to openSUSE?	Sep 23 20:43
schestowitz	About 70% of the patches in KDE are from unaffiliated folks the last time I checked (2 weeks ago)	Sep 23 20:43
AlbertoP	what kde has to do with opensuse?	Sep 23 20:44
AlbertoP	kde is upstream	Sep 23 20:44
schestowitz	AlbertoP: interesting. Well, OpenSUSE being /what/? YaST?	Sep 23 20:44
AlbertoP	hehe	Sep 23 20:44
schestowitz	It’s a legitimate question.	Sep 23 20:44
schestowitz	The skeleton of a ditro often makes up the core of it.	Sep 23 20:44
AlbertoP	yast? a smoothly integrated kde and gnome? buildservice?	Sep 23 20:44
schestowitz	Ubuntu = Synaptic+BulletProofX+repos+integration…	Sep 23 20:45
AlbertoP	well, ubuntu = steal and put some duct here and there ¬¬	Sep 23 20:45
schestowitz	You’r stepping on benJIman’s toes by suggesting OpenSUSE is Novell	Sep 23 20:46
AlbertoP	and I said this long time before greg!	Sep 23 20:46
schestowitz	AlbertoP: and marketing. But that counts too.	Sep 23 20:46
AlbertoP	no, openSUSE IS novell	Sep 23 20:46
trmanco	http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3696	Sep 23 20:46
schestowitz	AlbertoP: many others said so before Greg.	Sep 23 20:46
schestowitz	re: kernel (not GNU/Linux)	Sep 23 20:46
AlbertoP	I contributed for quite a bit of time to openSUSE, and still, I think openSUSE is novell…and I have no real problem with that	Sep 23 20:46
schestowitz	Do tou know Dale?	Sep 23 20:47
AlbertoP	Novell proved long ago not to be as evil as someone think…we see that every day	Sep 23 20:47
AlbertoP	no	Sep 23 20:47
schestowitz	Is he affiliated with a company?	Sep 23 20:47
AlbertoP	don’t know him	Sep 23 20:47
schestowitz	benJIman: hear hear.	Sep 23 20:47
benJIman	schestowitz: BulletProofX is an upstream feature, ubuntu just gave it a name.	Sep 23 20:47
_Doug	Discover a more intelligent approach in the Data Center	Sep 23 20:47
_Doug	http://www.novell.com/global/datacente…	Sep 23 20:47
schestowitz	OpenSUSE=Novell.	Sep 23 20:48
MinceR	novell is not as evil as someone thinks — it’s _more_ evil.	Sep 23 20:48
AlbertoP	schestowitz, btw, from the bottom of opensuse wiki	Sep 23 20:48
_Doug	And the rollovers don’t work in FF	Sep 23 20:48
AlbertoP	Copyright © 2008 Novell, Inc. All rights reserved. Novell is a registered trademark and	Sep 23 20:48
AlbertoP	openSUSE and SUSE are trademarks of Novell, Inc. in the United States and other countries.	Sep 23 20:48
AlbertoP	This site uses the YAML CSS framework.	Sep 23 20:48
schestowitz		Sep 23 20:48
schestowitz		Sep 23 20:48
schestowitz	benJIman: comment?	Sep 23 20:48
_Doug	hey Roy: lurkers should be kicked .. yea ?	Sep 23 20:48
AlbertoP	schestowitz, comment on what?	Sep 23 20:48
schestowitz	benJIman insisted OpenSUSE had nothing to do with Novell.	Sep 23 20:49
schestowitz	He tried hard to explain this.	Sep 23 20:49
benJIman	schestowitz: Content written by Novell is copyrighted by Novell, it’s the same with their Free software…	Sep 23 20:49
schestowitz	LOL	Sep 23 20:49
schestowitz	Moving goalposts.	Sep 23 20:49
AlbertoP	schestowitz, no the problem is that you can’t read	Sep 23 20:49
schestowitz	Where can I get my OpenSUSE content ISO?	Sep 23 20:49
benJIman	schestowitz: If you navigate to a page that’s written by a Non-Novell employee it does not say copyright Novell.	Sep 23 20:49
benJIman	Only on the pages written by Novell.	Sep 23 20:49
AlbertoP	that sentence clearly says two things	Sep 23 20:49
schestowitz	But it wasn’t about those footers.	Sep 23 20:50
schestowitz	It’s about the experience shared by a former large contributor.	Sep 23 20:50
AlbertoP	hehe that’s the point, you never state what you’re talking about EXACTLY	Sep 23 20:50
benJIman	I did not say that openSUSE had nothing to do with Novell, but it is distinct.	Sep 23 20:50
schestowitz	He asserts that Novell conrros OSUSE.	Sep 23 20:50
schestowitz	*controls	Sep 23 20:50
schestowitz	Fine, benJIman, fine..	Sep 23 20:50
benJIman	Not really true any more.	Sep 23 20:50
_Doug	benJIman: you are barred !	Sep 23 20:51
benJIman	_Doug: ?	Sep 23 20:51
AlbertoP	actually Novell clearly wants openSUSE to be more independent	Sep 23 20:51
schestowitz	_Doug: let it be.	Sep 23 20:51
AlbertoP	and this was said by the same management you consider so evil ^^	Sep 23 20:51
schestowitz	I don’t gag comments or people…	Sep 23 20:51
schestowitz	[H]omer gets pissed off thought and uses his op	Sep 23 20:51
_Doug	“We estimate that the cost of using Xen and SUSE Linux Enterprise for virtualizing Windows systems is just 10 percent of the leading equivalent solution.”	Sep 23 20:51
schestowitz		Sep 23 20:52
schestowitz	Yes, justify prostitution.	Sep 23 20:52
AlbertoP	I have problems to see what’s wrong there	Sep 23 20:52
schestowitz	“WIndows is so much better as a host” — Novell	Sep 23 20:52
schestowitz	Take the leap to Vista.	Sep 23 20:53
_Doug	“Norihito Kuniyoshi, Casio”	Sep 23 20:53
schestowitz	I should find that interview with Ron where he talks about it.	Sep 23 20:53
_Doug	benJIman: why don’t you use Linux at work ?	Sep 23 20:53
schestowitz	Something along the lines of “part of our agreement was that Windows would be host (master”)	Sep 23 20:53
benJIman	_Doug: You asked me that yesterday, and I replied.	Sep 23 20:53
_Doug	What ? remind me ?	Sep 23 20:54
AlbertoP	why do you criticize a successful linux implementation that underlined the importance of linux for the _real_world_ instead of being happy of that?	Sep 23 20:54
schestowitz	Remind me too.	Sep 23 20:54
trmanco	http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-91368/microsoft-r…	Sep 23 20:54
schestowitz	I recall nothing.	Sep 23 20:54
schestowitz	trmanco: I’ll blog it later.	Sep 23 20:54
_Doug	I do recall you suddenly dropping off ..	Sep 23 20:54
benJIman	_Doug: I do .net development. Mono is missing quite a few things to be a solution at the moment.	Sep 23 20:54
schestowitz	zoobab found lots of goodies today.	Sep 23 20:54
benJIman	_Doug: Such as a reliable application server	Sep 23 20:55
trmanco	ok	Sep 23 20:55
schestowitz	benJIman: I thought you advocatd Java.	Sep 23 20:55
schestowitz	Just coverup?	Sep 23 20:55
schestowitz	benJIman: OpenSUSE, loves Vista, loves .NET.	Sep 23 20:55
benJIman	18:27 < _Doug> benJIman: why won’t they let you use Linux at work ?	Sep 23 20:55
benJIman	18:28 < benJIman> If there were a good .net application server for linux then maybe I could.	Sep 23 20:55
schestowitz	I can see thatl…	Sep 23 20:55
benJIman	18:28 < benJIman> Mono is getting quite complete now, but still missing an appserver.	Sep 23 20:55
benJIman	^ see I did yesterday.	Sep 23 20:56
benJIman	schestowitz: Actually I prefer java, but .net is quite nice too.	Sep 23 20:56
schestowitz	So Free software is just a nice-to-have?	Sep 23 20:56
AlbertoP	benJIman, you’re biased! Don’t you see????	Sep 23 20:56
AlbertoP		Sep 23 20:56
schestowitz	OpenSUSE should be PragrmatUSE.	Sep 23 20:56
AlbertoP	schestowitz, for your information, mono is free software	Sep 23 20:56
_Doug	benJIman: I meant generally not just for dotNET development,	Sep 23 20:56
*benJIman wonders if schestowitz just gave a complement.		Sep 23 20:57
AlbertoP	and yes, software is an instrument, not a philosophy	Sep 23 20:57
AlbertoP	so if something does the job better, even if not free, it should be used	Sep 23 20:57
schestowitz	I’m glad we got that on the record.	Sep 23 20:57
benJIman	schestowitz: Free software is not just a nice to have for me. At home I use mostly free software with a few exceptions. I do have flash player and nvidia driver installed at the moment I confess.	Sep 23 20:57
schestowitz	Novell seems to think so too.	Sep 23 20:57
schestowitz	“Mixed source” or hybriding it calls it..	Sep 23 20:58
schestowitz	So does Microsoft…	Sep 23 20:58
benJIman	_Doug: What do you mean by generally? That is my job.	Sep 23 20:58
AlbertoP	schestowitz, so what?	Sep 23 20:58
schestowitz	Sought a job at Port 25 yet?	Sep 23 20:58
AlbertoP	is it wrong to use the right tool to do a job?	Sep 23 20:58
twitter	Ick, there’s been a troll storm in here…	Sep 23 20:58

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