| foobar__087 |
s/stats/states/ |
Oct 11 20:59 |
| MinceR |
when you could get something better for free |
Oct 11 20:59 |
| AlbertoP |
and they were windows based |
Oct 11 20:59 |
| MinceR |
oh, we all know how smart people in parliaments are |
Oct 11 20:59 |
| AlbertoP |
foobar__087, I don’t use SLED either…and I understood you  |
Oct 11 20:59 |
| foobar__087 |
:) |
Oct 11 20:59 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, well they want someone behind what they use, that’s all |
Oct 11 21:00 |
| MinceR |
some people are happily using windows, i’m sure |
Oct 11 21:00 |
| AlbertoP |
RH offered the same for more than twice the price, fyi |
Oct 11 21:00 |
| MinceR |
oh, you mean suse is the only distro with paid support |
Oct 11 21:00 |
| MinceR |
? |
Oct 11 21:00 |
| AlbertoP |
the offers were public |
Oct 11 21:00 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR what would be better in your opinion? |
Oct 11 21:00 |
| MinceR |
i wonder what these offers from redhat and canonical are |
Oct 11 21:01 |
| foobar__087 |
and now please don’t say buntu … |
Oct 11 21:01 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, there was a public selection. The only offers were three: RH, Novell, Mandriva… |
Oct 11 21:01 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: red hat, kubuntu — or just about anything if there’s a support company for it |
Oct 11 21:01 |
| MinceR |
or hiring staff yourself and using whatever you want. |
Oct 11 21:01 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, RH offered it at twice the price LOL |
Oct 11 21:01 |
| schestowitz |
foobar__087: among Novell services you’ll find just UNIX->Linux migrations. i wrote about it last week. |
Oct 11 21:01 |
| MinceR |
perhaps it was twice as good LOL |
Oct 11 21:01 |
| AlbertoP |
Mandriva didn’t respond to requirements |
Oct 11 21:01 |
| AlbertoP |
hehe be serious |
Oct 11 21:02 |
| foobar__087 |
I’m sorry but kbuntu is a pos / a sad joke regarding its kde integration (besides the buntu under the skirt) |
Oct 11 21:02 |
| schestowitz |
SLED is a good desktop, MinceR |
Oct 11 21:02 |
| MinceR |
if price is all that matters, they can download kubuntu at 0 cost and manage it themselves |
Oct 11 21:02 |
| MinceR |
schestowitz: so it doesn’t suck as much as opensuse? |
Oct 11 21:02 |
| schestowitz |
There’s no point in ridiculing products from Novell because they use similar components to the rest |
Oct 11 21:02 |
| MinceR |
where the netinstall involved typing in the IP address of an ftp server we were supposed to know beforehand? |
Oct 11 21:02 |
| schestowitz |
MinceR: it’s just a rebranded x.1 release with better patches (better tested) |
Oct 11 21:02 |
| MinceR |
and where a daemon started under x that screwed up keyboard handling completely until my friend (who wanted opensuse) killed it and the problem was fixed? |
Oct 11 21:03 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, did someone wrote something positive about that daemon in the opensuse community? |
Oct 11 21:03 |
| AlbertoP |
Fyi, because you need a lot of information, considering what you say, NO. We were the first to ask for its removal, and it was removed. |
Oct 11 21:04 |
| schestowitz |
foobar__087: I agree on Kubuntu based on my limited experience with it (it’s on my other partition on this one PC). Madriva is better for KDE. |
Oct 11 21:04 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR sry, but imho knowing the ip from where to install during a netinstall is kinda mandatory … |
Oct 11 21:04 |
| AlbertoP |
And probably, a product should be judged on the long run, not for a single problem. Don’t you think? |
Oct 11 21:04 |
| AlbertoP |
foobar__087, hehe it’s not necessary anymore |
Oct 11 21:05 |
| AlbertoP |
I think  |
Oct 11 21:05 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: oh, you haven’t heard of this neat little invention called DNS? |
Oct 11 21:05 |
| *AlbertoP checks… they discussed to use urls |
Oct 11 21:05 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: or the possibility of putting the urls/ip addresses on the install cd? |
Oct 11 21:06 |
| MinceR |
i guess that’s just too advanced for suse |
Oct 11 21:06 |
| *foobar__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
Oct 11 21:06 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, the problem was mainly due not to overload a reduced set of mirrors |
Oct 11 21:06 |
| MinceR |
there’s round-robin DNS and they could have also put in a list |
Oct 11 21:06 |
| MinceR |
and selected randomly |
Oct 11 21:06 |
| AlbertoP |
and the netinst didn’t really bother anyone, because it is the less used installation procedure |
Oct 11 21:07 |
| MinceR |
this isn’t rocket science! |
Oct 11 21:07 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR er, what does this have to do if you didn’t configure it yet - or is your whole problem that dns isn’t setup during the netinstall step so one has to enter the ip? |
Oct 11 21:07 |
| MinceR |
it could ask for the ip address of the dns servers if it couldn’t get them via dhcp |
Oct 11 21:07 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, what has this to do with the quality of SLED I don’t know though |
Oct 11 21:07 |
| MinceR |
those i’m more likely to know |
Oct 11 21:07 |
| AlbertoP |
SLED can’t be netinstalled ^^ |
Oct 11 21:07 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: so it’s an even more retarded version of opensuse? |
Oct 11 21:07 |
| *MinceR runs to buy a dozen |
Oct 11 21:07 |
| AlbertoP |
you’ve the media, but not the repo online |
Oct 11 21:08 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, no, but it’s not distribuited with a public repo. It’s commercial product, exactly as Red Hat… |
Oct 11 21:08 |
| MinceR |
you know, the suse guys could have just forked debian and came up with a much better distro |
Oct 11 21:08 |
| AlbertoP |
you can download the DVD |
Oct 11 21:08 |
| MinceR |
guess what, repos can use http authentication |
Oct 11 21:08 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, what is the origin of SUSE? |
Oct 11 21:08 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR it nefver occurred to me as a big problem but perhaps you have some point. Have you filled a bugreport so they have to fix it then? |
Oct 11 21:08 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: i used a distro that works instead of that. |
Oct 11 21:09 |
| AlbertoP |
foobar__087, it’s a lost discussion |
Oct 11 21:09 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR out of curiosity - which one was that? |
Oct 11 21:09 |
| MinceR |
at the time it was gentoo |
Oct 11 21:09 |
| MinceR |
now i’m using kubuntu |
Oct 11 21:09 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: yes, it’s a lost discussion because you don’t listen |
Oct 11 21:09 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP: SUSE 11 can. |
Oct 11 21:10 |
| schestowitz |
SLED 11 probably will. |
Oct 11 21:10 |
| schestowitz |
(netinstalled |
Oct 11 21:10 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, can netinstall? |
Oct 11 21:10 |
| kentma |
just installed ubuntu 8.04 on a dell latitude - owner had become infected with some windows problem - it’s an exceptionally easy install. |
Oct 11 21:10 |
| schestowitz |
I think one of the Lizards blogged it some weeks ago. |
Oct 11 21:10 |
| kentma |
everything seems to work out of the box, including the live keys on the keyboard. |
Oct 11 21:10 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, yes, opensuse 10.x too |
Oct 11 21:10 |
| MinceR |
i think the one i installed for a friend was opensuse 10.x |
Oct 11 21:11 |
| foobar__087 |
ah well, gentoo is apparently quite fine if you have the time & the knowledge. But Kubuntu is no “working distro” but a joke I wouldn’t touch with a 10 foot stick - so I guess we have different requirements. |
Oct 11 21:11 |
| MinceR |
a joke, as opposed to suse? |
Oct 11 21:11 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, I’m not sure about SLE actually. I assume they require authentication, as for patches, so they don’t allow it…but I never tried |
Oct 11 21:11 |
| MinceR |
excuse me while i laugh my ass off at you. |
Oct 11 21:11 |
| kentma |
I’m watching Merlin on bbc iplayer (flash) whilst playing lincity and have been playing mythtv recordings, his mp4a collection from itunes and checked his documents from ‘documents and settings’ in open-office. everything just works. |
Oct 11 21:11 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: yes, I never had problems installing stuff in years. |
Oct 11 21:11 |
| schestowitz |
It depends on the PCs, I guess (h/w) |
Oct 11 21:11 |
| AlbertoP |
ehh I’m a bit older probably ^^ |
Oct 11 21:12 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR e.g - I’m pretty happy with opensuse on the desktop (cause I couldn’t care less about that MS deal since IMHO it doesn’t affect anyone) and CentOS on the server. |
Oct 11 21:12 |
| schestowitz |
I just assume everything works when it boots. |
Oct 11 21:12 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: the hardware support is fantastic. full wireless networking, everything. |
Oct 11 21:12 |
| AlbertoP |
I’ve been using suse quite a bit before the N acquisition, and the agreement  |
Oct 11 21:12 |
| schestowitz |
Network, sound, X… |
Oct 11 21:12 |
| kentma |
yup, all of that. opengl (intel card), even got wobbly windows by selecting “higher” effects (or some such). |
Oct 11 21:13 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: i’m sure sending a part of the money paid for computers that have ballnux preinstalled doesn’t affect anyone |
Oct 11 21:13 |
| AlbertoP |
when debian was a text install distro, gentoo was hum…trying to compile, red hat was RPM breakage, Mandriva was “Oh god the deps”, suse had a nice smooth user experience, with perfect hardware detection and automated services also on 2.4 kernels… |
Oct 11 21:13 |
| MinceR |
a nice smooth user experience, such as entering the ip address of an ftp server by hand |
Oct 11 21:13 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: all the keyboards special keys (sleep, volume, etc) are autoconfigged nicely by Mandriva |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, oh I forgot…ubuntu didn’t exist! |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
There was a CD that came with the machine. |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| MinceR |
because we all know that nice smooth user experience means that the installer is graphica |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| MinceR |
l |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| kentma |
the ntfs resize worked really well - windowsxp wanted to chkdsk the drive, but then booted and worked just as badly, with all of the spyware workign perfectly after the resize. all special keys work in Ubuntu, too. |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| MinceR |
because we’re scared to death if the display is in text mode |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
For Windows, an installation of s/w is need ed to make these keys work  |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| MinceR |
why are using a computer again? |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR so don’t buy one that has “Ballnux” (whatever that might be) installed but only the hardware. The choice is yours - so the problem is? |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: many vendors only offer windows or ballnux |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, is installation the only thing that affects user experience? LOL |
Oct 11 21:14 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: ballnux is any distro whose producers have bought into the microsoft patent racket. |
Oct 11 21:15 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: such as suse, opensuse, xandros, turbolinux and linspire. |
Oct 11 21:15 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: no, the crappy keyboard handling affects it too, LOL |
Oct 11 21:15 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, hum? |
Oct 11 21:16 |
| MinceR |
that’s what opensuse did — read your buffer |
Oct 11 21:16 |
| AlbertoP |
right because ubuntu is always perfect hehe |
Oct 11 21:16 |
| schestowitz |
Freespire? |
Oct 11 21:16 |
| MinceR |
compared to suse, it is |
Oct 11 21:16 |
| AlbertoP |
let’s be real for once…all the distros has some problem |
Oct 11 21:17 |
| AlbertoP |
you don’t really evaluate them for a bug in something |
Oct 11 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
OpenSUSE is not necessarily a Ballnux. It’s its preparation.. It’s like an unborn Ballny. |
Oct 11 21:17 |
| MinceR |
and *suse has multiple problems, including the one where you keep funding the bastards who ruined the IT industry |
Oct 11 21:17 |
| AlbertoP |
if you are interested, you report it and see how they react |
Oct 11 21:17 |
| MinceR |
– and who are still trying to remove your option to use any version of linux at all. |
Oct 11 21:17 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, we enjoy the same pleasures actually |
Oct 11 21:17 |
| AlbertoP |
opensuse is the base for SLE |
Oct 11 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
Huh?  |
Oct 11 21:18 |
| AlbertoP |
I mean that the software is exactly the same |
Oct 11 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
Oh, “we” as in “You’re SUSE” |
Oct 11 21:18 |
| MinceR |
and i presume there’s a reason why i’ve kept hearing how suse sucks from my friends for a long time. |
Oct 11 21:18 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR I’m sorry but buying a computer without a preinstalled OS isn’t really hard (at least in my part of the world). So bitching about loads of computers that have a preinstalled OS you don’t like doesn’t sound very bright. Simply vote with your money and don’t buy them. |
Oct 11 21:18 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: it can be really hard if you’re looking for a laptop made by a reputable manufacturer. |
Oct 11 21:19 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: i’ve been there so i know. |
Oct 11 21:19 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, really? You can always ask for a refund of the OS… |
Oct 11 21:19 |
| schestowitz |
Even Ubuntu mobile/Remix is taited. |
Oct 11 21:19 |
| AlbertoP |
_always_ |
Oct 11 21:19 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft codecs. Can’t opt out… |
Oct 11 21:19 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: I doubt I could find any ordinary person on the street who would be able to find a PC, or a laptop, without Windows or OSX pre-installed. It’s specialist knowledge. |
Oct 11 21:20 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: also, not everyone is bright enough to make the correct decision — as long as people buy preinstalled suse because “it’s linux”, they’re harming themselves and the community. |
Oct 11 21:20 |
| schestowitz |
That’s why I bought my PC without an O/S. |
Oct 11 21:20 |
| schestowitz |
I won’t pay Dell joining Novell/Microsoft, which _they did_ |
Oct 11 21:20 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: yes, i can always _ask_ but i won’t necessarily be given one |
Oct 11 21:20 |
| schestowitz |
*pay for Dell |
Oct 11 21:20 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, no wait…it’s ubuntu saying “Ubuntu is Linux”, not really SUSE |
Oct 11 21:20 |
| MinceR |
people have to fight tooth and nail and often fail |
Oct 11 21:20 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: hm, what is suse saying then? |
Oct 11 21:20 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, oh no no you can get it |
Oct 11 21:20 |
| MinceR |
i remember the guy who had to sign an NDA with lenovo so they’d refund vista for him |
Oct 11 21:21 |
| schestowitz |
Ubuntu……….Linux for human beings. |
Oct 11 21:21 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, suse has the same agreement with vendors RH has. They preinstall SUSE on certain machines. That’s all. |
Oct 11 21:21 |
| schestowitz |
Not: Ubuntu is Linux……. for human beings. |
Oct 11 21:21 |
| kentma |
MinceR: is that even legal? |
Oct 11 21:21 |
| MinceR |
i don’t know |
Oct 11 21:21 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma you go in the shop and say “Without OS please” - The question is if poeple want this or not. |
Oct 11 21:21 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: question if the shop will sell it to you that way |
Oct 11 21:21 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: I’ve tried that - it doesn’t work. |
Oct 11 21:21 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, you’d agree that Mark Shuttleworth goes around speaking as the king of linux…while he just steals from debian and adds something here and there… |
Oct 11 21:21 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: the response I’ve had has been “there’s no demand” |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| schestowitz |
The question is about policing. |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: most people could not do this. |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| MinceR |
i haven’t heard him speaking as the king of linux |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| schestowitz |
This type of buncling should be made illegal |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: I know how to, but most people do not. |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| MinceR |
but i’ve seen him fund a debian fork that’s really good |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| schestowitz |
In France, it’a relady being pursed by consumer groups |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| AlbertoP |
well, it’s pretty easy to obtain Windows refund |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| MinceR |
well, i don’t expect that bundling to go away anytime soon in the backwater country i’m in (hungary) |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR I don’t agree. When they pay for Suse they give Novell money which helps to finance their developers who work on KDE, Gnome, Also, OpenOffice, the Kernel and probably every other bigger linux project. |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: so it should be, too. the present situation is appalling. |
Oct 11 21:22 |
| AlbertoP |
just don’t activate it, and ask when buying if you buy online (DELL) |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: and some of that money goes to microsoft and helps finance their efforts to crush linu |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| MinceR |
x |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP: *LOL* easy to get a refund? |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| AlbertoP |
I did that once because I had already a licence |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: dont’ feed the trolls… |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, yes, it is… |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: why don’t you go and see if dell even offers an option without windows for most of their laptops? |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| MinceR |
protip: they don’t |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, Dell actually sells ubuntu on their laptops ^^ |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR why would some of that money go to Microsoft? Last time I checked Novell makes money from that deal. |
Oct 11 21:23 |
| MinceR |
also, iirc dell has bought into the patent racket under the carpet |
Oct 11 21:24 |
| kentma |
MinceR: it would be much better for the troll to find the list and bring it back. |
Oct 11 21:24 |
| MinceR |
so if you buy a dell even with ubuntu, ballmer gets paid. |
Oct 11 21:24 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: afaik money goes both ways between m$ and novell as they together try to crush linux. |
Oct 11 21:24 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP: Dell charges money for their ‘Linux’. |
Oct 11 21:24 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, not anymore. See DirectToDel |
Oct 11 21:25 |
| AlbertoP |
l |
Oct 11 21:25 |
| schestowitz |
Here in the UK I heard of Novatech back in 2004. They are a rarity. They totally deduct Windows tax. The PCs are Linux ready. |
Oct 11 21:25 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR that is wrong. Novell makes much more money from that deal than they pay (if they pay something at all). Which is one of the reasons I think that deal is good (cause it just gets them some money). |
Oct 11 21:25 |
| MinceR |
just |
Oct 11 21:26 |
| foobar__087 |
just? |
Oct 11 21:26 |
| MinceR |
never mind that ballmer can point at that deal and say it proves his claims of patent infringement |
Oct 11 21:26 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: money is clearly moving both ways. |
Oct 11 21:26 |
| MinceR |
just keep ignoring the facts and you’ll be happy. |
Oct 11 21:26 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, however, for consumers it is not as hard as you say to get refunded for Windows, especially in Europe. Really. You simply need to contact your vendor and not to activate your licence. If you ask that at the moment of purchase, you won’t be charged for the licence by DELL for example. |
Oct 11 21:26 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR as he can point now at the kernel and cry “IT INFRINGES 12723486234 PATENTS!” - point being it doesn’t affect anyone. |
Oct 11 21:27 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: it does |
Oct 11 21:27 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: it tells the uninitiated that this choice of platform is dangerous |
Oct 11 21:27 |
| MinceR |
that’s the whole point of FUD. |
Oct 11 21:27 |
| schestowitz |
Economics of FUD… BusinessWeek 2007 |
Oct 11 21:27 |
| foobar__087 |
no cause there is no ground to base those claims on except FUD and we both no that this isn’t the right thing to build a house on  |
Oct 11 21:28 |
| foobar__087 |
s/no/know/ |
Oct 11 21:28 |
| MinceR |
(m$ should be sued for spouting those claims btw) |
Oct 11 21:28 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: FUD is very well understood - how could you possibly excuse it? It’s despicable behaviour. |
Oct 11 21:28 |
| schestowitz |
Should be reposted in the Gangster Tribute |
Oct 11 21:28 |
| schestowitz |
Or Gangster Tribune |
Oct 11 21:28 |
| schestowitz |
Where is the policing? |
Oct 11 21:28 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma I’m not excusing it but I’m saying that FUD doesn’t matter to any legal patent issues. |
Oct 11 21:28 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, do you think MS is succeeding in it? |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: well, it certainly got novell to sign a deal with them |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| schestowitz |
foobar__087 is an opensuse guy, kentma. It’s a troll. |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: also turbolinux, linspire, xandros, dell |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: it does matter. I know, I’ve spent hours discussing these issues with the legal folk in my $employer. |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: the more important effects would be more difficult to gauge |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| schestowitz |
That’s why I asked question when someone called “foobar” came here.. |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| foobar__087 |
as in he can claim what he (Balmer) wants until he puts his cards on the table. And if he really had any claims he had crushed linux long time ago before it grew as big as it is now. |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, the deal was signed for other reasons. The point is, do you think people gave up on RH to use a MS -protected distro, for example? |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: that is, linux adoption in businesses |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: ah, foobar__087 is another troll? wow. |
Oct 11 21:29 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: they might have, and as i’ve said that’s more difficult to gauge |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| kentma |
It would explain the apparent foolishness. |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, am I a troll also? |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| AlbertoP |
I mean “using opensuse => troll”?  |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: another one for the .ignore file… |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: maybe called in by AlbertoP (reinforcement) |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| schestowitz |
The OpenSUSE do this a lot |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: well, either you’re a troll or your judgement is clouded by your financial interests or you’re militantly ignorant. |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| foobar__087 |
excuse me? So I’m trolling cause I don’t buy into this patent FUD story but believe that there aren’t any valid claims and therefore no threat? |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, without us…your channel would not exist! |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| AlbertoP |
what a piety eh? |
Oct 11 21:30 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: AlbertoP is clearly a troll, and it would appear that foobar__087 is, too. |
Oct 11 21:31 |
| schestowitz |
When things heat up, spies like benJIman go to #opensuse to invite some friends for backup |
Oct 11 21:31 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, you forgot benJIman ! |
Oct 11 21:31 |
| schestowitz |
Been seen many times befor.e |
Oct 11 21:31 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, looool |
Oct 11 21:31 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: i think we’d all prefer if there was no need for this channel to exist. |
Oct 11 21:31 |
| AlbertoP |
hahahaha |
Oct 11 21:31 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, do you really think benJIman convinced me to come? |
Oct 11 21:31 |
| MinceR |
did it take a lot of convincing? |
Oct 11 21:31 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma that “They don’t agree with my point of view and therefore they are trolling” doesn’t really sound very bright. |
Oct 11 21:32 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: in a way, it’s kind of good to know that these people cannot be this stupid, that really, they’re just being paid to spin a line. I’d really hate to think that anyone could eb this dumb. |
Oct 11 21:32 |
| AlbertoP |
and btw, foobar__087 is not around on opensuse channels, are you? |
Oct 11 21:32 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, actually he didn’t ask |
Oct 11 21:32 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: you’re trolling, and you’re not fooling anyone here. |
Oct 11 21:32 |
| schestowitz |
foobar__087 does not exist |
Oct 11 21:32 |
| schestowitz |
That’s the point |
Oct 11 21:32 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: you need a far more subtle approach to push your venom. |
Oct 11 21:32 |
| schestowitz |
It’s a nym |
Oct 11 21:32 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, as I said I’ve been using SUSE long before Novell and openSUSE…I don’t need to be convinced |
Oct 11 21:33 |
| schestowitz |
He even nymshifted earlier. |
Oct 11 21:33 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma Again, how am I trolling? Cause I don’t agree with your point of view or because I don’t buy this patent threat story or … ? |
Oct 11 21:33 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: i’m not surprised. troll tactics are amazingly unimaginative. |
Oct 11 21:33 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: go away, please. |
Oct 11 21:33 |
| schestowitz |
foobar__087 could even be AlbertoP in theory but the IPs don’t intersectl |
Oct 11 21:33 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, as I said before, troll said by someone founding its existance on trolling is a compliment |
Oct 11 21:33 |
| schestowitz |
It could be Ronnie Hovo-sapient. |
Oct 11 21:33 |
| foobar__087 |
schestowitz fyi I`m using irc2go |
Oct 11 21:33 |
| schestowitz |
Fair enough. |
Oct 11 21:34 |
| schestowitz |
Are all of them called foobar then? |
Oct 11 21:34 |
| schestowitz |
mib calls them mib_xxxx |
Oct 11 21:34 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: bound to be |
Oct 11 21:34 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, I’m not multiple… |
Oct 11 21:34 |
| schestowitz |
I know. |
Oct 11 21:34 |
| foobar__087 |
schestowitz no, one can choose a nick during join - I enter foobar everywhere, an old habbit |
Oct 11 21:34 |
| schestowitz |
I was being hypothetical.. well, hypothetically speaking |
Oct 11 21:34 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, and to be honest, I would like a serious opposition to Novell…it would help to fix the issues where they are, when it’s the case. The problem is that some of the good points are lost in all the fud. |
Oct 11 21:35 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: have you been watching and/or reading the Richard Dawkins stuff lately? |
Oct 11 21:35 |
| *AlbertoP grabs Geeko and offers him a snack |
Oct 11 21:36 |
| AlbertoP |
btw, do you know who Geeko is right?! |
Oct 11 21:36 |
| foobar__087 |
So, to come back to my question. Could you please explain me how I was trolling? I was trying to be polite, not to insult anyone and so on. So all I “did” is that I don’t share your point of ciew regarding the patent issue. Why is this trolling? |
Oct 11 21:36 |
| foobar__087 |
s/ciew/view/ |
Oct 11 21:36 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: I know from personal experience that you are quite wrong. Please go away. |
Oct 11 21:37 |
| AlbertoP |
Geeko: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jzb/2914139185/ and http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimgris/2912355796/ |
Oct 11 21:38 |
| schestowitz |
schestowitz: I haven’t no. I notice that Stephen Fry has just published one book chapter in his blog. |
Oct 11 21:38 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma “I know from personal experience” isn’t really what I would call “argumentation”. Wrong regarding the patent issue / disagreeing with you or wrong with what? |
Oct 11 21:38 |
| schestowitz |
foobar__087: you seem to have come here to assist AlbertoP’s position, but I could be wrong. You never answered my Q: which distro do you use? |
Oct 11 21:39 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: let’s take this really slowly, then. MS take a position on patents. You think they’re wrong? You think that they’re wasting their time? You think they’re stupid? Please explain to me why they’re stupid. |
Oct 11 21:39 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, don’t you like suse mascotte? |
Oct 11 21:39 |
| MinceR |
i don’t |
Oct 11 21:40 |
| schestowitz |
Joe’s Flickr album… big Geeko |
Oct 11 21:40 |
| MinceR |
because i don’t like suse either |
Oct 11 21:40 |
| AlbertoP |
hehe right… |
Oct 11 21:40 |
| foobar__087 |
schestowitz First of all I`m not here to support AlbertoP and, as I already told kentma before I happily use openSUSE on the desktop and CentOS on the server (which was why I was asking him before what problems he encountered). |
Oct 11 21:40 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, hehe I’m trying to put my hands on one of those plushes…but hum, quite rare it seems, and not sold :\ |
Oct 11 21:41 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: I don’t recall you saying anything to me about opensuse or centos. |
Oct 11 21:41 |
| schestowitz |
He didn’t |
Oct 11 21:41 |
| AlbertoP |
I think we talked about that some time ago though |
Oct 11 21:42 |
| schestowitz |
Unless my XChat missed a strike, |
Oct 11 21:42 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: that’s what I thought… another one for the .ignore file. |
Oct 11 21:42 |
| schestowitz |
*stroke |
Oct 11 21:42 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma I thihnk they way they (MS) act is understandable (since it is a bussiness) but it doesn’t affect me you or anyone else the slightest bit since their whole patent threat isn’t based on any valid grounds but only fud. So I couldn’t care less. |
Oct 11 21:42 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma see above, I told you |
Oct 11 21:42 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, using opensuse is not an automatic “to be ignored”, you know? |
Oct 11 21:42 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: you think businesses have to be stupid, then? |
Oct 11 21:43 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft FUD pattern: “Don’t get me wrong, I use Linux on the servers, but it’s not ready for desktop | it’s just for servers | it’s all command line | other” |
Oct 11 21:43 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, fyi I’ve been using fedora, ubuntu, mandriva also…still nothing beats opensuse on the desktop for what I need. |
Oct 11 21:43 |
| MinceR |
the way m$ acts is understandable — they’re evil assholes and this is the only thing they can do |
Oct 11 21:43 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: I agree, foobar__087 is using all the classic fud lines. |
Oct 11 21:43 |
| MinceR |
they know they can’t compete based on the merits of their products as they have none. |
Oct 11 21:43 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP: using opensuse and coming to #opensuse does not make one wrong, but it can be a sign |
Oct 11 21:43 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: and yes it affects us all. |
Oct 11 21:43 |
| AlbertoP |
:) http://www.novell.com/linux/desktop/ |
Oct 11 21:44 |
| foobar__087 |
schestowitz please “grep -i centos” on your log - its hard with that web client and it doesn’t show times either. |
Oct 11 21:44 |
| schestowitz |
Predudice is not good, but facts help telling apart foobar_65 and foob4r_32324i323 |
Oct 11 21:44 |
| schestowitz |
foobar__087: the logs are flushed every night |
Oct 11 21:44 |
| foobar__087 |
er what? I’m foobar_087 |
Oct 11 21:45 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: according to my log, you mentioned centos to MinceR, not to me. |
Oct 11 21:45 |
| *trmanco has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
Oct 11 21:45 |
| foobar__087 |
schestowitz I mean the current log since I’m in here for less then an hour under that name. |
Oct 11 21:45 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: yes, I’ve checked, and you were speaking to someone else, not to me. |
Oct 11 21:45 |
| *trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-234-43.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell |
Oct 11 21:45 |
| MinceR |
that’s a buffer, not a log |
Oct 11 21:45 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma I’m sorry, then I mixed you up. |
Oct 11 21:45 |
| MinceR |
it isn’t written to disk |
Oct 11 21:45 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: yes you did. What else do you mix up? |
Oct 11 21:45 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma nothing? schestowitz & MinceR just claimed that I never said I would use openSUSE & CentOS which wasn’t the case. |
Oct 11 21:46 |
| MinceR |
when did i claim that? |
Oct 11 21:46 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: I told you that you were wrong. i was correct. Did you check? No, you didn’t. I checked, and proved you wrong. What else do you not bother to check? |
Oct 11 21:46 |
| *trmanco has quit (Client Quit) |
Oct 11 21:47 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma I already said that this webclient is hard to read without an option to search the log. So please forgive me for mixing up your nicks, I hope you survive it. |
Oct 11 21:48 |
| AlbertoP |
foobar__087, they’ll survive |
Oct 11 21:48 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: you were wrong. I told you, and you didn’t accept it. what else are you wrong about? |
Oct 11 21:48 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR Now, regarding those patents: In what way would that be different to the age old MS claim that the linux kernel violates ~290 patents? |
Oct 11 21:49 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: in the way that a company that owns a distro lends weight to that claim |
Oct 11 21:49 |
| AlbertoP |
from logs: |
Oct 11 21:49 |
| AlbertoP |
ott 11 16:16:29 <AlbertoP>ehh I’m a bit older probably ^^ |
Oct 11 21:49 |
| AlbertoP |
ott 11 16:16:31 <foobar__087>MinceR e.g - I’m pretty happy with opensuse on the desktop (cause I couldn’t care less about that MS deal since IMHO it doesn’t affect anyone) and CentOS on the server. |
Oct 11 21:49 |
| AlbertoP |
ott 11 16:16:35 <schestowitz>I just assume everything works when it boots. |
Oct 11 21:49 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma Yes, I mixed your nicks up, so I was wrong, so I was never right, so you were always right! Are you kidding me? |
Oct 11 21:49 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: so what else are you wrong about? |
Oct 11 21:50 |
| MinceR |
he’s wrong about a lot of things |
Oct 11 21:50 |
| AlbertoP |
foobar__087, you know…we probably met the two most perfect humans in the world, and in the same chatroom! |
Oct 11 21:50 |
| kentma |
MinceR: Indeed so. His willingness to maintain a line in spite of being corrected was, to my mind, very telling about his approach to such issues. |
Oct 11 21:50 |
| schestowitz |
Ars Technica must be playing Digg or something. News two days later and FP for just 3 paragraphs: http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.a… |
Oct 11 21:50 |
| foobar__087 |
Nah, apparently we are wrong with everything cause I mixed kentma nick with MinceR nick. |
Oct 11 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
Heh.’News’: (2008-10-11) Macromedia Announces Flash Player For Linux! http://top40-charts.com/news/MP3-and-More/M… |
Oct 11 21:51 |
| kentma |
MinceR: clearly, he sees nothing significant about being visibly mistaken, even having been corrected by more than one person, and refusing to accept the correction. |
Oct 11 21:51 |
| AlbertoP |
foobar__087, and you use opensuse, like me |
Oct 11 21:51 |
| MinceR |
kentma: it’s just business as usual for him |
Oct 11 21:51 |
| kentma |
MinceR: clearly, he’s used to being corrected, and used to ignoring the corrections - hey, snap! |
Oct 11 21:51 |
| MinceR |
:) |
Oct 11 21:51 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma My willingness to maintain which line? I already addmitted that I mixed your nicks, sincerly appologized and totally fail to see where I have to addmit that I’m obviously wrong so please enlighten me. |
Oct 11 21:52 |
| schestowitz |
foobar__087: sorry, I missed that bit about CentOS. My bad. |
Oct 11 21:52 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: go away, please. |
Oct 11 21:52 |
| foobar__087 |
schestowitz no worries. |
Oct 11 21:52 |
| AlbertoP |
foobar__087, stop apologizing… he has nothing to say, so he just tries to attack you |
Oct 11 21:52 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: he was quite wrong about to whom he was speaking - even after being corrected. |
Oct 11 21:53 |
| AlbertoP |
kentma, and you look quite hard to understand too |
Oct 11 21:53 |
| foobar__087 |
kentma so I didn’t say that I mixed you up with MinceR, yeah, whatever then … |
Oct 11 21:53 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: he’s also happy to accept unsupported claims of liability as acceptable business practice. this is an unsavoury person, at best. |
Oct 11 21:54 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR So where is the current patent threat different from the year old claims that the kernel itself violates various patents? |
Oct 11 21:54 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: if you keep repeating that question, i’ll keep pasting my answer to it. |
Oct 11 21:54 |
| MinceR |
235406 < MinceR> foobar__087: in the way that a company that owns a distro lends weight to that claim |
Oct 11 21:55 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: stop this, foobar__087. how can there be a “current patent threat” - go away, please. |
Oct 11 21:55 |
| schestowitz |
kentma: don’t worry. The OpenSUSE expose themselves for the Microsoft apologists some of them have become. |
Oct 11 21:55 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, hehe did you read the agreement? |
Oct 11 21:55 |
| MinceR |
it’s not really a threat though |
Oct 11 21:55 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR please once more since that backlog here is a pita. |
Oct 11 21:55 |
| MinceR |
it’s FUD |
Oct 11 21:55 |
| schestowitz |
It hurts them more than it does damage to our cause. |
Oct 11 21:55 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: if you have no backlog, use your memory |
Oct 11 21:55 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: It’s really sad, to my mind. There’s really no need for this. |
Oct 11 21:55 |
| schestowitz |
They also attack coverage of Microsoft dirty tricks in BN because they MUST kill the messenger to purify Novell’s reputation. |
Oct 11 21:56 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, right official documents are fud, your words are The Truth huh |
Oct 11 21:56 |
| MinceR |
i mean, the patent claims aren’t the thread, but that some people can be made to believe them. |
Oct 11 21:56 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR Yes, so we agree on this. And further it goes like this: Since it is only FUD it is no ground for valid legal claims and therefore it doesn’t affect me and I couldn’t care less. |
Oct 11 21:56 |
| kentma |
schestowitz: it’s way way way too late to purify Novell’s rep, I’m afraid. |
Oct 11 21:56 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: FUD is FUD, the truth is the truth and you’re wrong. |
Oct 11 21:56 |
| AlbertoP |
haha |
Oct 11 21:56 |
| AlbertoP |
right |
Oct 11 21:56 |
| AlbertoP |
this is the foundation of a productive discussion! |
Oct 11 21:56 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: it’s no ground for legal claims but it’s ground for some people to be afraid of legal claims. |
Oct 11 21:56 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: facts are the foundation of a productive discussion. |
Oct 11 21:57 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: you have yet to present any facts. |
Oct 11 21:57 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: it’s not about you, is it. Unless you think that Microsoft are truly stupd - something you keep ignoring in your fud-pushing here. |
Oct 11 21:57 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, oh no, you’re are the one thinking to a cospiracy, so you’re the one who needs to provide evidence. |
Oct 11 21:57 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: which i already have. |
Oct 11 21:57 |
| schestowitz |
Linux Foundation is hiring: http://jobs.cmswire.com/job/629/ |
Oct 11 21:58 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR Yes. So it far from a nice bussiness practic but basically its the peoples problem if they believe this bullshit. Point being there is no threat since there is no ground to base this threat on. |
Oct 11 21:58 |
| MinceR |
what is it with you trolls that you can only keep asking the same questions over and over? |
Oct 11 21:58 |
| AlbertoP |
you provided links to something that can be defined an opinion, not a fact |
Oct 11 21:58 |
| foobar__087 |
*it is far from being a |
Oct 11 21:58 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: so you are saying that Microsoft are being dishonest? |
Oct 11 21:58 |
| AlbertoP |
you related that to MS-N agreement, which is not proved by those documents |
Oct 11 21:58 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: as long as enough people believe this bullshit it can cause problems |
Oct 11 21:58 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: and since novell is assisting microsoft in spreading these lies, novell is doing the community harm. |
Oct 11 21:59 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: and that can’t be excused. |
Oct 11 21:59 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, do you understand that the “patent protection” is a really small part of the agreement? |
Oct 11 21:59 |
| schestowitz |
They put it in brochures and all. |
Oct 11 21:59 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: it’s an important part |
Oct 11 21:59 |
| schestowitz |
Also the patent BS, which is invalid in the EU when they disseminate it. |
Oct 11 21:59 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, oh not really…considering it covers 2-3 things |
Oct 11 21:59 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: i don’t care what bullshit they’re trying to hide it in |
Oct 11 21:59 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: novell is still helping microsoft in their deals and they can’t be forgiven for that. |
Oct 11 22:00 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP: yes, fight for Hyper-V, for OOXML, for patents. |
Oct 11 22:00 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, 3 is worse than 1 |
Oct 11 22:00 |
| AlbertoP |
MinceR, right…better to feed the fud. Don’t you think that your activity is helping them even more than N? |
Oct 11 22:00 |
| schestowitz |
Everything Novell agreed to is a fight on FOSS |
Oct 11 22:00 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: if novell was honest about promoting linux, they wouldn’t make such pacts. |
Oct 11 22:00 |
| schestowitz |
In exchange it gets a life$$$line. |
Oct 11 22:00 |
| MinceR |
AlbertoP: what? |
Oct 11 22:00 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, no, hyper-v is not involved at all, at least not the open version |
Oct 11 22:00 |
| foobar__087 |
MinceR Sure, if people believe this FUD the perhaps buy into it and get screwed, we agree on this. My whole point just is that if you don’t believe them you there is no reason you should / have to care what they say since they have no ground to base there claims on. That is all I’m saying, agreed? |
Oct 11 22:00 |
| schestowitz |
“Here, Novell, here’s some money… now go kick Mr. Ubuntu in the crotch” |
Oct 11 22:01 |
| AlbertoP |
OOXML support is provided as a _separate_ plugin |
Oct 11 22:01 |
| AlbertoP |
so there is no injection in code, which is what worries OSS guys |
Oct 11 22:01 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP: your understanding of this is simplified and flaws. |
Oct 11 22:01 |
| kentma |
foobar__087: so, you’re saying that Microsoft are being dishonest? |
Oct 11 22:01 |
| schestowitz |
You guys just spread misinfirmation here. |
Oct 11 22:01 |
| AlbertoP |
schestowitz, right, better your vision, which is distorted and complex? |
Oct 11 22:01 |
| AlbertoP |
but of course, without your vision, you won’t exist LOL |
Oct 11 22:01 |
| schestowitz |
AlbertoP: it’s very simple. |
Oct 11 22:02 |
| MinceR |
foobar__087: unfortunately, business isn’t affected only by what _i_ believe. |
Oct 11 22:02 |
