10.17.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 16th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:19 am by Roy Schestowitz

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twitter	nasty. I see that kind of thing all the time.	Oct 16 00:58
AlbertoP	hi twitter !	Oct 16 00:58
twitter	hello	Oct 16 00:58
AlbertoP	what happened today? Did Geeko invaded another country?	Oct 16 01:00
schestowitz	All that these accounts do in Digg is attack people (and FOSS). They also do this in other sites/fora.	Oct 16 01:00
schestowitz	AlbertoP: you have an obsession with Geckos.	Oct 16 01:01
schestowitz	It’s like David Ike and those ‘crocodile blood’ thingie.	Oct 16 01:01
AlbertoP	schestowitz, it’s just a common way of referring to suse	Oct 16 01:01
twitter	I’d rather you had a thing for lizards	Oct 16 01:01
schestowitz	Not a good cameo for a product.	Oct 16 01:02
AlbertoP	btw, he is Geeko, not Gecko or whatever	Oct 16 01:02
schestowitz	Some of the alpha wallpaper/splash screens from old versions were horrid. People sent in photos of lizards.	Oct 16 01:02
AlbertoP	in 9.x	Oct 16 01:02
schestowitz	Gecks don’t know how to wite. :-p	Oct 16 01:03
AlbertoP	actually one was very nice	Oct 16 01:03
AlbertoP	but indeed not exactly “neutral”	Oct 16 01:03
schestowitz	Users complained. Scary monsters on booting…	Oct 16 01:03
AlbertoP	they were on login…boot always was pretty flat for what I remember	Oct 16 01:03
schestowitz	Verbose.	Oct 16 01:06
AlbertoP	http://static.flickr.com/29/4069671…	Oct 16 01:06
AlbertoP	this was one ^_^	Oct 16 01:07
schestowitz	It’s quite okay.	Oct 16 01:08
schestowitz	Some candidates were toads in a swamp… someone complained in the NG/mailing list.	Oct 16 01:09
AlbertoP	yep	Oct 16 01:14
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AlbertoP	new materials for you: sle 11 presented at brainshare	Oct 16 01:16
schestowitz	SLE+new wallpaper?	Oct 16 01:17
AlbertoP	hehe	Oct 16 01:18
schestowitz	Windows 7 is under heavy work.	Oct 16 01:18
AlbertoP	I’m not a beta tester of SLE, so I don’t know	Oct 16 01:18
schestowitz	Lots of wallpaapers font and icons, just like Vista ME.	Oct 16 01:18
AlbertoP	it seems also a vista sp2	Oct 16 01:19
schestowitz	*fonts	Oct 16 01:19
schestowitz	It’s a name change.	Oct 16 01:19
schestowitz	Selling something called “Vista SP2″ is like selling sugar-coated feces.	Oct 16 01:20
AlbertoP	lol roy, relax…sp2 is downloadable	Oct 16 01:20
AlbertoP	no idea of what are the plans for w7	Oct 16 01:21
schestowitz	There are plans — plans to “freeze the market,” to use Microsoft own words.	Oct 16 01:23
AlbertoP	oh well, we’ll see	Oct 16 01:24
twitter	The market is relatively frozen, if no sales is cold. M$ will go bust that way.	Oct 16 01:25
kevin083	what do you guys think of supposed “nontransferable” licenses? isn’t it a scam?	Oct 16 01:27
schestowitz	People buy low-cost laptops, often with Linux. Even shillnalysts say so right now.	Oct 16 01:27
schestowitz	kentma: the MAFIAA gets away with it, I think.	Oct 16 01:27
schestowitz	Oops, kevin083 it should say	Oct 16 01:28
twitter	They have already evaporated $60 billion. I don’t think they can spread the $40 spending over so many years because they are going to run out of cash before 2013.	Oct 16 01:28
twitter	There’s a lot of pent up demand for computers, especially small quiet ones.	Oct 16 01:29
kevin083	i think if the average person knew about it they would have a problem with it	Oct 16 01:29
schestowitz	I heard that Microsoft tolerates even a loss in ‘netbooks’ now.	Oct 16 01:30
twitter	If people had a choice they would chose freedom.	Oct 16 01:30
twitter	they typical dump … how many things can they dump at once?	Oct 16 01:30
schestowitz	Meaning they dump it trying to kill Linux companies (stranglehold to chokehold).	Oct 16 01:30
schestowitz	dumping drugs is a long-term investment.	Oct 16 01:31
kevin083	hehe	Oct 16 01:31
schestowitz	They hope to see the kids running back for a ‘dose’ of Billdows	Oct 16 01:31
twitter	dump netbooks, dump software on students, dump software on 3rd world, dump zune, dump xbox, it all ads up to the losses we have seen.	Oct 16 01:31
kevin083	well i used to use windows every day… if they can’t even let me move my copy i paid for when i purchased the pc to a new one i don’t want them getting any of my money	Oct 16 01:32
schestowitz	They call it Ultimate/Unlimited Opportunity, IIRC>	Oct 16 01:32
twitter	More like a money pit.	Oct 16 01:32
schestowitz	Watch out for that name “Unlimited Potential… I call it codename for “anti-Linux budget”	Oct 16 01:32
kevin083	i’m sure there are others that feel the same way, but it is something nobody ever talks about	Oct 16 01:33
schestowitz	kevin083: Microsoft insists a PC without Windows is a ‘naked PC’, then why can’t ‘clothes’ be passed?	Oct 16 01:33
twitter	because they are lying?	Oct 16 01:33
kevin083	they are just taking advantage of the fact that 90% of people don’t want to transfer their software	Oct 16 01:34
schestowitz	Well, they perfume these lies.	Oct 16 01:34
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schestowitz	Like those who dump and convince themselves they do a favvour to the kids (’charity’)	Oct 16 01:34
kevin083	that would be like me saying that because people don’t use 90% of what i sell them i get to steal it back from them	Oct 16 01:34
kevin083	not right at all	Oct 16 01:34
schestowitz	DRM	Oct 16 01:35
twitter	“Without good software and an owner who understands programming, a hobby computer is wasted.”	Oct 16 01:35
twitter	Function guilt, also presumes he has “good” software.	Oct 16 01:36
twitter	Free software has no owners, so transferring it is not a problem.	Oct 16 01:37
twitter	Bill can keep his crap.	Oct 16 01:37
kevin083	but you end up paying them whether you want to or not. for example if you purchase an mp3 player that supports wmdrm	Oct 16 01:38
schestowitz	http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.a… : Bill Gates: “the GPL, which we disagree with”	Oct 16 01:39
schestowitz	kevin083: yes, it was more of a problem when I got one as a ‘gift;	Oct 16 01:39
kevin083	it could easily be set up so that if one wants playsforsure/whatever the drm is, they must install it on their device themselves instead of bundling it	Oct 16 01:40
kevin083	but then obviously it wouldn’t take off	Oct 16 01:41
schestowitz	Yes.	Oct 16 01:42
schestowitz	It’s the same issue with Ubuntu (or Dellbuntu)	Oct 16 01:42
schestowitz	All buyers are forced to pay for the Microsoft drek.	Oct 16 01:42
kevin083	it’s even in cell phones now	Oct 16 01:43
AlbertoP	schestowitz, dell fixed that	Oct 16 01:44
AlbertoP	currently dell’s prices are slightly lower if you get ubuntu	Oct 16 01:44
schestowitz	No-O/S boxes?	Oct 16 01:44
schestowitz	AlbertoP: that’s not the point.	Oct 16 01:45
AlbertoP	it was suggested on direct2dell and implemented	Oct 16 01:45
schestowitz	They charge you for codecs and, well… essentially patents.	Oct 16 01:45
AlbertoP	well, that’s pretty normal, if you want codecs in a legal way	Oct 16 01:45
schestowitz	They also joined Microsoft/Novell, so n surprise there.	Oct 16 01:45
kevin083	don’t forget the right to decrypt your own dvd movies	Oct 16 01:45
schestowitz	AlbertoP: I don’t need codecs.	Oct 16 01:45
schestowitz	They should offer the option.	Oct 16 01:46
AlbertoP	you need codecs, you just don’t want to pay for them	Oct 16 01:46
schestowitz	Rather than add craplets and charge for them.	Oct 16 01:46
AlbertoP	however DELL, on the professional line, has the “n” version	Oct 16 01:46
AlbertoP	without OS installed	Oct 16 01:46
schestowitz	Veyr limited	Oct 16 01:46
schestowitz	Not many lines.	Oct 16 01:46
AlbertoP	yes sure, because no one requests it actually	Oct 16 01:46
AlbertoP	precision workstations and some servers	Oct 16 01:47
schestowitz	They should separate (unbundle) h/w and s/w	Oct 16 01:47
AlbertoP	bah	Oct 16 01:47
schestowitz	If Microsoft has a problem with that, then it ought to make Windows easier to install	Oct 16 01:47
AlbertoP	they answer to what a customer buys	Oct 16 01:47
schestowitz	Every m0r0n can install something like Ubuntu	Oct 16 01:47
schestowitz	Even little kids.	Oct 16 01:47
AlbertoP	well, installation is not really the problem	Oct 16 01:48
AlbertoP	the problem is that hw companies don’t really want to deal with customers calling support to have the OS installed	Oct 16 01:48
kevin083	most PCs come with AV pre-installed too	Oct 16 01:49
AlbertoP	AV?	Oct 16 01:49
AlbertoP	antivirus?	Oct 16 01:49
kevin083	where by your subscription will expire in a year or so… when there are free alternatives	Oct 16 01:49
kevin083	yep	Oct 16 01:49
kevin083	that’s what i told my mom when she got a new pc	Oct 16 01:49
AlbertoP	kevin083, I agree with you on that. Even if usually they put a suite of tools (firewall and stuff) not only AV	Oct 16 01:51
schestowitz	The idea of unbundling law in different.	Oct 16 01:51
AlbertoP	schestowitz, they just need to add the options of the OS when you buy…that’s all	Oct 16 01:51
schestowitz	In France they lobby (consumer group/s) for vendors to publicly display the cost of WIndows and deduct it shall the customer refuse to have it with the h/w.	Oct 16 01:51
kevin083	i do believe some software should be bundled, as long as it is a part of the system being installed such as a web browser and music player	Oct 16 01:52
schestowitz	There’s good progress for the unbundlers.	Oct 16 01:52
AlbertoP	a complete unbundling would be a mess, considering the average culture of who buys a pc	Oct 16 01:52
kevin083	third-party software isn’t a good idea though	Oct 16 01:52
schestowitz	The seller can provide the PC and the CD/s separately.	Oct 16 01:52
AlbertoP	right, and make the buyer pay 200$ to install them ^^	Oct 16 01:53
schestowitz	This way they can swap PCs and the cost of a PC affected just by the s/w appended.	Oct 16 01:53
AlbertoP	this really would help LOL	Oct 16 01:53
kevin083	that’s kinda what HP does… they don’t give you the restore disk, but it is pre-loaded	Oct 16 01:53
twitter	“you need codecs, you just don’t want to pay for them” The only problem with codecs is patent law and DMCA - violations of your rights. They are available but may not be distributed in non free states such as the USA.	Oct 16 01:53
schestowitz	LOL @ “non free states”	Oct 16 01:54
AlbertoP	twitter, codecs can’t be redistributed in half europe either	Oct 16 01:54
twitter	I did not claim half of Europe was free.	Oct 16 01:54
schestowitz	The United States of Anti-socialism	Oct 16 01:54
kevin083	lol	Oct 16 01:55
kevin083	well i paid more to get an ogg vorbis player	Oct 16 01:55
kevin083	and i’m happy with it	Oct 16 01:55
schestowitz	Well, Hollywood bought laws in Europe.	Oct 16 01:55
schestowitz	They just needed some foolish or corruptible politicians.	Oct 16 01:55
twitter	Corporate and government cooperation of the current US variety has a name, Fascism.	Oct 16 01:55
AlbertoP	lol	Oct 16 01:55
kevin083	most people would never do that though	Oct 16 01:56
twitter	What, use vorbis?	Oct 16 01:56
kevin083	pay more for the ability to use it	Oct 16 01:56
twitter	Why should people pay for codecs?	Oct 16 01:57
schestowitz	…When they are free ones	Oct 16 01:57
kevin083	they shouldn’t have to… it puts one in a position where their content can be taken hostage	Oct 16 01:57
schestowitz	It binding of ‘playback tax’	Oct 16 01:57
kevin083	that’s why i did what i did	Oct 16 01:57
schestowitz	The EU treats some of this as a violation.	Oct 16 01:57
schestowitz	..while at the same time being abusing and abusive in the same way with its media ’streaM$’	Oct 16 01:58
kevin083	i had that happen to me a few years ago… i encoded a bunch of files using nero and then it told me the trial for the codec had expired so i couldn’t access my stuff anymore	Oct 16 02:01
kevin083	i didn’t even know it was a trial encoder because it came with the burner. basically they say “if you want your files back, you’ll pay a license fee to decode them” lol	Oct 16 02:02
schestowitz	COdec hostage.	Oct 16 02:02
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twitter	Vorbis works for me.	Oct 16 02:03
schestowitz	The codecs were free. Free as in “Samples”	Oct 16 02:03
kevin083	it’s great!	Oct 16 02:03
twitter	ffmpeg2vorbis might help you out of your trap. -v controls quality, 5 is good.	Oct 16 02:04
kevin083	well that was years ago… it just opened my eyes	Oct 16 02:04
kevin083	back in early 2006 in fact	Oct 16 02:04
schestowitz	mplayer does conversions too, I think.	Oct 16 02:04
twitter	The economic implosion is going to derail the DRM fucks. They thought they could slip it into digital broadcast transitions and “high definition” but people are not going to be able to pay for the fancy new TVs and rip off content.	Oct 16 02:06
twitter	Advertisers will route around that.	Oct 16 02:07
schestowitz	Their issue might be backlash. They try to expire old ‘content’.	Oct 16 02:08
schestowitz	People are stupid, but only to an extent. They’ll sooner or later realise they they were rented content, not sold.	Oct 16 02:08
twitter	The expiration was going to be a quality improvement.	Oct 16 02:08
kevin083	did you hear about those authentication servers for music which were gonna shut down?	Oct 16 02:09
twitter	They don’t really care about owning video, especially video they can manipulate because they are not used to doing that.	Oct 16 02:09
kevin083	they pulled out at the last minute like cowards and kept them running	Oct 16 02:09
schestowitz	The MAFIAA sets the rules such that buyers (paying customers) lose their product, which ‘expires’. Those that ’steal’ (copy) get to keep their data.	Oct 16 02:09
twitter	They will care less when they have trouble buying dinner.	Oct 16 02:09
kevin083	i SO wish they would have shut them down… people would have come after them	Oct 16 02:09
schestowitz	kevin083: those severs won’t last forever.	Oct 16 02:09
schestowitz	It’s the same with MSN.	Oct 16 02:10
twitter	Pays for Sure.	Oct 16 02:10
kevin083	it was yahoo, msn, and wal*mart	Oct 16 02:10
schestowitz	Yahoo! and Google issued some lousy refunds, IIRC>	Oct 16 02:10
twitter	failure	Oct 16 02:10
schestowitz	Wal*Mart and MSN responded only after being blasted in public.	Oct 16 02:10
twitter	“unlimited” music rental never worked.	Oct 16 02:11
kevin083	it’ll be interesting to see what the world is like 10 years from now… either there will be insane DRM or no drm	Oct 16 02:12
twitter	Radio is dead because the RIAA’s arrangement only allowed stations to have 3 or 4 hundred songs. Sad isn’t it?	Oct 16 02:12
kevin083	once the servers start shutting down people will catch on	Oct 16 02:12
twitter	My wife put it, “you mean I have to buy Sony music for my Sony music player? How stupid!”	Oct 16 02:13
schestowitz	It’s called C.R.A.P.	Oct 16 02:14
kevin083	… and it won’t play on that apple	Oct 16 02:14
schestowitz	Find the video from David Berlind in YouTube.	Oct 16 02:14
AlbertoP	small question: do you use acrored?	Oct 16 02:17
schestowitz	Me? No.	Oct 16 02:20
twitter	Oh man! The Corry Doctorow interview, about how a free author has moved to free software, comes up like this, ” The article you are trying to access requires you to be a registered Linux Journal print or digital subscriber.” :’(	Oct 16 02:20
schestowitz	Yes, I know. But it was too good to not quote	Oct 16 02:20
kevin083	wow	Oct 16 02:20
twitter	Good quotes alright. Well thanks.	Oct 16 02:20
twitter	It was kind of like seeing a RMS in wmv.	Oct 16 02:21
twitter	Watch for Novell to publish like that.	Oct 16 02:22
kevin083	i can’t believe people “patent” fonts… lol that’s just funny	Oct 16 02:22
kevin083	but i guess that’s just because i’m the guy who always uses the default one because it looks just fine	Oct 16 02:22
AlbertoP	kevin083, people patents also plugs, wires, …	Oct 16 02:23
AlbertoP	don’t ask me what’s innovative there ^^	Oct 16 02:23
twitter	A particular plug might deserve a patent.	Oct 16 02:24
AlbertoP	reaaaally particular	Oct 16 02:24
AlbertoP	usually they patent the design more than the plug though	Oct 16 02:24
kevin083	perhaps in those cases where one tiny plug serves tuns of functions. e.g. charging, tv-output, line input etc	Oct 16 02:24
kevin083	i’ve got a device like that and the plug is real small… impressive	Oct 16 02:25
twitter	I’d think of mechanical and or electrical improvements.	Oct 16 02:25
twitter	It’s hard to imagine a plug that has not already been invented though.	Oct 16 02:25
AlbertoP	that’s the point ^	Oct 16 02:25
AlbertoP	^^	Oct 16 02:25
AlbertoP	a font at least if new-looking, requires a looooot of work	Oct 16 02:26
twitter	Yes, if it’s a non obvious invention, it might deserve a patent.	Oct 16 02:26
AlbertoP	btw, opensuse has new, free and open, fonts thanks to jimmac	Oct 16 02:26
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schestowitz	Fonts don’t need patents.	Oct 16 02:30
schestowitz	It’s more to do with art, i.e. copyrights.	Oct 16 02:30
AlbertoP	infringe one of the two…and you’ll be happy in the same way	Oct 16 02:33
AlbertoP	n8	Oct 16 02:38
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twitter	It also shows some of the problems of a system that was made for paper publishing. Fonts are a real art form and a particular expression, but they have to reside on the users machine to be useful.	Oct 16 02:58
twitter	copyright was never supposed to put restrictions on readers, just publishers.	Oct 16 02:58
schestowitz	true.	Oct 16 02:58
twitter	it would be a crime to put restrictions on the machines themselves, even for publishers.	Oct 16 02:59
schestowitz	It assumes no parity.	Oct 16 02:59
schestowitz	No peer communication, either.	Oct 16 02:59
twitter	so you are left with M$ bluster about just that kind of crime.	Oct 16 02:59
twitter	Here’s a funny for you, http://bayimg.com/iAlohAabh	Oct 16 02:59
schestowitz	What separates gossip from publishing (consumer-producer relaltionship)	Oct 16 03:00
twitter	I don’t know.	Oct 16 03:00
twitter	the question is strange	Oct 16 03:00
twitter	good night all.	Oct 16 03:01
schestowitz	It was not a question.	Oct 16 03:02
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MinceR	hay	Oct 16 05:51
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schestowitz	Ah, the irony! SAP freezes internal IT purchases: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13…	Oct 16 07:47
schestowitz	Giant database plan ‘Orwellian’: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_pol…	Oct 16 08:55
schestowitz	Microsoft to ditch MSN Groups? : http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3-100671…	Oct 16 08:57
schestowitz	http://commit-digest.org/issues/2008-09-28/ “Richard Dale committed changes in /branches/KDE/4.1/kdebindings/csharp: * Promote the C# bindings from the trunk to the KDE 4.1 release branch * Regenerate the KDE and Plasma sources from the 4.1 headers”	Oct 16 09:56
twitter	I wonder if anyone will use it. There are already plenty of scripting languages.	Oct 16 13:37
schestowitz	Yes, I’ve just sent this information to other people.	Oct 16 13:40
schestowitz	BTW, re: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/16/n… , The Unlimited Potential Group is being portrayed as ‘charitable’; instead, it should be reported to the FTC for abuse (anti-competitive dumping).	Oct 16 13:41
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brunomiguel	hello	Oct 16 14:15
schestowitz	Hey. what’s up?	Oct 16 14:16
brunomiguel	don’t know. i’m reading the news to find out.	Oct 16 14:17
schestowitz	Oh. I need to post some more links.	Oct 16 14:23
schestowitz	Europe makes some more moves to Free software now.	Oct 16 14:23
brunomiguel	they finally ditched all the dictator software?	Oct 16 14:25
schestowitz	Not yet. One day at a time, esp. when there’s financial stress.	Oct 16 14:29
twitter	hard to compete with free, isn’t it? :)	Oct 16 14:44
twitter	dive, dive, dive! http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT	Oct 16 14:44
twitter	http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:NOVL	Oct 16 14:44
twitter	business as usual makes people angry, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oc…	Oct 16 14:46
schestowitz	Eek!	Oct 16 14:46
twitter	” They are not going to have the party and leave the hangover for taxpayers.”	Oct 16 14:47
twitter	Why not, they obviously left the shareholders and customers that way.	Oct 16 14:48
PetoKraus	hmm, shane is posting agian?	Oct 16 14:48
schestowitz	Yes.	Oct 16 14:48
PetoKraus	*ain	Oct 16 14:48
PetoKraus	that’s good news!	Oct 16 14:48
PetoKraus	not that i didn’t like your posts…	Oct 16 14:48
schestowitz	He’s the founder	Oct 16 14:48
twitter	the more the merrier	Oct 16 14:49
schestowitz	Readers are encouraged to contribute posts as well.	Oct 16 14:51
schestowitz	Something strange happened.	Oct 16 14:56
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schestowitz	Some days ago Firefox stopped opening ogg as emdded page media player with streaming. Now it just opens them once downloaded in external programs.	Oct 16 14:57
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_Doug	.	Oct 16 15:12
_Doug	..	Oct 16 15:12
_Doug	…	Oct 16 15:12
_Doug	….	Oct 16 15:12
schestowitz	Poor Sun is below $5	Oct 16 15:12
_Doug	…..	Oct 16 15:12
_Doug	……	Oct 16 15:12
schestowitz	But you don’t like talking about the economy.	Oct 16 15:12
_Doug	Aw shucks ..	Oct 16 15:12
schestowitz	Sun down almost 80% in one year.	Oct 16 15:12
_Doug	who me ?	Oct 16 15:13
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_Doug	nobody likes talking about the economy .. @	Oct 16 15:13
schestowitz	Yes, you. I was not talking to your cleavage.	Oct 16 15:13
_Doug	$$$$$$ where have all my dollars gone ?	Oct 16 15:13
schestowitz		Oct 16 15:13
schestowitz	Converted to Euro by Iran.	Oct 16 15:14
_Doug	You do realize that if the Do$$ar collapses, the rest of the global economy will follow suit ..	Oct 16 15:15
schestowitz	Yes	Oct 16 15:17
_Doug	Every Email In UK To Be Monitored ..	Oct 16 15:17
_Doug	http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/10/15/2222209.shtml	Oct 16 15:17
_Doug	We of the Tuting popular front will just have to go underground ..	Oct 16 15:18
schestowitz	You and I have no more control over the US$ than 6 billion other people	Oct 16 15:18
schestowitz	I already encrypt mail where possible.	Oct 16 15:18
_Doug	tooting	Oct 16 15:19
_Doug	UK Court Rejects Encryption Key Disclosure Defense ..	Oct 16 15:19
_Doug	http://it.slashdot.org/it/08/10/…	Oct 16 15:19
_Doug	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_Smith	Oct 16 15:20
_Doug	“twelve monkeys” was on last night ..	Oct 16 15:24
_Doug	Did anyone notive that it was Cole who gave the idea for the virus to the son while in the looneybin ?	Oct 16 15:24
_Doug	Jeffrey Goines an animal rights activist and possibly a Linux user	Oct 16 15:28
_Doug	They sent him back in time to discover who stole the SCO source code ..	Oct 16 15:32
_Doug	we must have a pure strain	Oct 16 15:32
_Doug	So, if Cole never went back .. the outbreak would never have taken place .. time paradox .. discuss …	Oct 16 15:37
schestowitz	Films? Why films?	Oct 16 15:38
schestowitz	Speaking of animal right activist, there’s this article: http://www.schneier.com/blog/ar…	Oct 16 15:38
schestowitz	*rights	Oct 16 15:38
_Doug	justv trying to encourage the conversation …	Oct 16 15:38
_Doug	I like animals, but we have to eat them and use for medical experiments .. to survive ..	Oct 16 15:39
_Doug	as long as the distress is kept to a minimum ..	Oct 16 15:39
_Doug	Schneier on Security: this is really scary ..	Oct 16 15:41
schestowitz	He is scary. But nice in real life…	Oct 16 15:46
schestowitz	I’m off to the gym now anyway..	Oct 16 15:47
_Doug	see ya .. I’m off too …	Oct 16 15:48
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tessier	schestowitz: You have met Bruce Schneier?	Oct 16 16:15
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twitter	M$ and Novell stock have both moved more than 10% today. Crazy fluctuations.	Oct 16 16:33
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trmanco	http://www.italovignoli.org/2008/10/15/this-is-…	Oct 16 16:50
twitter	share	Oct 16 16:52
twitter	with your friends	Oct 16 16:52
twitter	Good perspective on latest “bailouts” http://lists.essential.org/piperm…	Oct 16 16:58
twitter	I’ve used this analogy before, ”Internet space in our country has become the wall of a public toilet,” but did not go where these people want to go.	Oct 16 17:06
twitter	More badness from Korea http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/…	Oct 16 17:06
twitter	Exploitation still thriving on Wall Street, it’s just a little more personal and less lucrative than before. http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/10/11/2008-…	Oct 16 17:08
twitter	In other news, M$ continues to Slog Yahoo. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20…	Oct 16 17:18
twitter	How much of the M$ offer was in M$ stock and coupons last time?	Oct 16 17:18
twitter	No need for anti-trust here, no sir-ree. This would not be like that non exclusive deal Google wants.	Oct 16 17:20
twitter		Oct 16 17:21
twitter	Will M$ buy Yahoo with M$ debt or M$ shares this time?	Oct 16 17:22
twitter	I can make Yahoo a better offer. 6 rolls of toilet paper and the promise to not fire anyone. M$ licensing costs and the elimination of bonuses should cover salaries for a while.	Oct 16 17:24
twitter	Here comes the usual election time gasoline price drop http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/business/worldb…	Oct 16 17:25
twitter	I wonder if Exxon will still rack up another “best year ever”. I’d bet a nickel on it.	Oct 16 17:26
twitter	More M$ hype and vapor, going for “limited” “instant on” http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/230988/wind…	Oct 16 17:32
twitter	ACPI was supposed to give people the “full” OS experience quickly, their vaporware announcement is really an admission of power management failure.	Oct 16 17:34
twitter	but ha - ha, Bill Gates, GNU/Linux works great.	Oct 16 17:34
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schestowitz	The Down Jones is almost Up Jones now.	Oct 16 18:39
schestowitz	twitter: a friend of mine reckons an intl’ currency will be introduced. I doubt it though.	Oct 16 18:41
MinceR	jonesin’ up and down?	Oct 16 18:47
schestowitz	Yes, it’s like a trampoline. Strangely enough, I haven’t seen RMS saying anything about it yet. Even Mark Shuttleworth blogged it. Linux CEOs talked about it too.	Oct 16 18:49
schestowitz	Chart: http://beranger.org/index.php?page=dia…	Oct 16 18:50
PetoKraus	isn’t it constantly dropping?	Oct 16 18:52
schestowitz	Yes, fluctuates, but overall down. I get all my financial news from Beranger : Funny < http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&amp… >, also funny < http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&amp… > and < http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&am… >: “Galbraith’s “The Great Crash 1929””	Oct 16 18:54
schestowitz	“[...] In 1928, the richest 5 per cent of the population took in more than a third of all personal income. They averaged less than a quarter for most of the post-war period, but inequality began to rise sharply from the Eighties. In the past two or three years, the top 5 per cent have again made up to 38 per cent of all personal income, according to US data compiled by Emmanuel Saez, economist at the University of California.”	Oct 16 18:55
schestowitz	“Galbraith calls it “devastation by reverse leverage”. He describes a corporate pyramid, with vast holding companies controlling large segments of the utility, railroad and entertainment business.”	Oct 16 18:55
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PetoKraus	schestowitz: i have it as my desktop background	Oct 16 18:56
PetoKraus	the 1280×800 image, that is	Oct 16 18:57
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schestowitz	Could set it to gradient red shades in KDE3.	Oct 16 18:57
PetoKraus	gradient red shades?	Oct 16 18:58
schestowitz	All down.	Oct 16 18:58
schestowitz	But then you’d be labeled an “anarchist”.	Oct 16 18:59
MinceR	and that’s a bad thing?	Oct 16 18:59
schestowitz	Well, if you live in a police state, it can make life inconvenient: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21192/1054/ . A lot of this goes to the genesis of the Free software movement and what RMS foresaw in technology.	Oct 16 19:00
schestowitz	“The news for Australian Internet users just keeps getting worse,” said EFA Board member Colin Jacobs. “We have legitimate concerns with the creeping scope of this unprecedented interference in our communications infrastructure. It’s starting to look like nothing less than a	Oct 16 19:01
schestowitz	comprehensive program of real-time Internet censorship.”	Oct 16 19:01
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twitter	:’( like China.	Oct 16 19:13
twitter	Up nearly 11%. Crazy. http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:NOVL	Oct 16 19:14
PetoKraus	oh	Oct 16 19:14
twitter	Still under $5.00, haha.	Oct 16 19:15
twitter	The swings are so wild they show that the valuation is arbitrary, making it worth nothing real.	Oct 16 19:15
schestowitz	As long as Netware sinks, so will Novell’s value. They buy back stock.	Oct 16 19:16
schestowitz	Steve Jobs to quit Apple : http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/n…	Oct 16 19:17
twitter	5%, 38%, that’s bad news.	Oct 16 19:17
schestowitz	Good time to leave, if true.	Oct 16 19:17
twitter	Another Apple rumor? Sheesh.	Oct 16 19:17
schestowitz	Probably. Like Gates ‘retiring’ (to bribe people for Windows)	Oct 16 19:18
twitter	What a flip and insulting article. Do they dish out the same treatment for M$ tools?	Oct 16 19:22
schestowitz	http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqui… How “marketing melts your brain [...] Propaganda machine [...] Isn’t marketing affecting us a bit too much? Most of us heard of the word fanboy, [...] fanboy or fangirl sometimes by his or her entourage, sometimes by the reputation and advertising of a brand.	Oct 16 19:22
twitter	At least they link to something worth while http://ipower.ning.com/netneutrality2	Oct 16 19:22
twitter	I don’t understand the image for that link but it seems to work. http://images.vnu.net/en/gb/inq/pic-… :-D	Oct 16 19:23
schestowitz	They’ve had ‘worse’	Oct 16 19:24
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twitter	I suppose M$ needed to put a damper on Apple, http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AAAPL	Oct 16 19:28
twitter	Can’t think of something good for yourself? Make up something bad about your competitors.	Oct 16 19:28
schestowitz	Microsoft attempts to sour Apple’s laptop launch : http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/10/15/ap5…	Oct 16 19:29
schestowitz	Typical. Like they sabotaged VMware’s event and other such things. Or Novell with OOo: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/14…	Oct 16 19:30
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*Topic for #boycottnovell is: “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications” [publicly logged]		Oct 16 19:30
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schestowitz	Oops. Did I miss something?	Oct 16 19:31
schestowitz	I hit CTRL+W	Oct 16 19:31
MinceR	nothing	Oct 16 19:31
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jose_x	schestowitz, I won’t stay long, but did you read this.. http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxp…	Oct 16 19:36
jose_x	it’s interesting to read..	Oct 16 19:36
schestowitz	Who is “Michael Hall”?	Oct 16 19:38
schestowitz	Never heard of him.	Oct 16 19:38
schestowitz	Anyway, I’ll read it now.	Oct 16 19:38
schestowitz	WTF? “Originally published September 28, 2000, on LinuxPlanet”	Oct 16 19:39
schestowitz	They do 8-year-old reruns now?	Oct 16 19:39
schestowitz	Boy, it must be quite some recession if they need to bring back writers from the last decade — provocative ones too.	Oct 16 19:39
schestowitz	LOL “You can download a pppoe client for your machine, but you’ll have to look it up on Google. The installers don’t mind dual-boot machines, but have it booted into Windows in case you get a belligerent one. Oh… I wasn’t here. I didn’t say this.”"	Oct 16 19:40
schestowitz	“That’s why I’m Microsoft certified now… I’m one of a special group that got to beta test Windows 98 for free!” Wow! Win98. That’s more modern than errr. .. Mandriva 2009? No, maybe Mandrake 6 or something with KDE 1.9	Oct 16 19:41
jose_x	that part did sound funny.. sorry, roy, i did not realize it was republished	Oct 16 19:42
PetoKraus	it’s nice article tho	Oct 16 19:43
jose_x	it is nice	Oct 16 19:43
jose_x	i feel relieved though	Oct 16 19:43
schestowitz	Nokia tries to smile as profits slump < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/16/nokia_q3/ >	Oct 16 19:43
jose_x	talk about some fud	Oct 16 19:43
schestowitz	Who reran it and why?	Oct 16 19:43
schestowitz	The date at the top is deceiving.	Oct 16 19:43
twitter	Look, FUD for Google. http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl	Oct 16 19:45
twitter	grrrr	Oct 16 19:45
twitter	http://tech.slashdot.org/article…	Oct 16 19:45
schestowitz	This phone is probably Linux/Java based and Moto might join forces with Android: Motorola touts touchscreen phone tech to Trekkers < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/… >	Oct 16 19:45
schestowitz	CWMike.	Oct 16 19:46
schestowitz	That’s Mike Elgan, a self-confessed “Windows guy” (yes, he calls himself that)	Oct 16 19:46
schestowitz	Roughly Drafted hates him: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/10… (among more)	Oct 16 19:47
schestowitz	Microsoft’s Fast charged with ‘accounting fraud’ < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/… >	Oct 16 19:48
schestowitz	Microsoft’s Fast Search Charged With Fraud in Norway < http://www.pcworld.com/article/152346/…. >	Oct 16 19:49
jose_x	does microsoft stand to gain (or lose) if fast was up to funny business?	Oct 16 19:55
schestowitz	Microsoft is fradulent too.	Oct 16 19:55
schestowitz	I guess Norway is just more strict when it comes to the law.	Oct 16 19:56
schestowitz	The SEC let Microsoft go loose after a ’settlement’ (yeah, go figure out you can fail yourself out or crime).	Oct 16 19:56
schestowitz	*bail, not fail	Oct 16 19:57
twitter	where is Elgan hiding?	Oct 16 19:57
schestowitz	What do you mean “hiding”?	Oct 16 19:58
schestowitz	Microsoft actually settled at least twice — first with the whistleblower (Charlie made $4 million out of it), then with the SEC	Oct 16 19:59
twitter	CWMike … looking for CW article … don’t see it.	Oct 16 19:59
twitter	So M$ got jacked when it bought Fast? Ha ha.	Oct 16 20:01
schestowitz	Waste of money.	Oct 16 20:02
twitter	yeah but a bigger waste than they thought.	Oct 16 20:03
schestowitz	Google still rules enterprise search. Microsoft scrables and clings onto anything that it thinks might save it while angry investors walk away at the sight of a Web-obsessed dinosaur.	Oct 16 20:03
jose_x	have you guys mentioned yahoo’s almost instant 10-15% rise after ballmer made a comment today?	Oct 16 20:03
twitter	Yeah, I saw that.	Oct 16 20:03
schestowitz	At the end, Microsoft uses the Burton Group shills I assume to mock Google Apps… never forget that an infected WIndows PC is downtime too… maybe data loss too.	Oct 16 20:03
twitter	I wondered where a company that’s going into debt would get money to buy yet another company.	Oct 16 20:04
jose_x	when i read about fast, i was thinking that maybe microsoft had ratted them perhaps in an effort to annul the buy or get something from someone.. or maybe they could benefit from excuses	Oct 16 20:04
schestowitz	I can go /more/ debt.	Oct 16 20:04
schestowitz	It was going to borrow $20 billion or so in March	Oct 16 20:04
jose_x	i also pondered just as i was starting to read it that maybe ms might use them to hide their own funny business	Oct 16 20:04
schestowitz	Oh, share the washing cycle. Let the laundry begun.	Oct 16 20:05
schestowitz	*begin	Oct 16 20:05
twitter	looks more like distraction than serious talk	Oct 16 20:05
twitter	All part of the slog	Oct 16 20:06
jose_x	twitter, if people think ms is gold then they will buy their debt offerings for whatever % gain ms offers	Oct 16 20:06
twitter	Why would anyone think a company that turned $60 billion cash into $20 billion debt was “gold”?	Oct 16 20:07
twitter	Golden flow smells like urine.	Oct 16 20:08
jose_x	ms doesn’t plead for money.. with noses high in the air they walk into a fed auction and expect everyone to drop what they are doing in order to go bid for their really really safe debt at say 1 or 2% since they are as good as a central bank if not better	Oct 16 20:09
jose_x		Oct 16 20:09
schestowitz	Finance Ministry of Latvia: gradual transition to open source software at government institutions should be careful considerated < http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/finances/?doc=6184 >	Oct 16 20:09
twitter	FUD. Like ESR pointed out TCO is on free software’s side. The sooner they get out of M$, the more they save.	Oct 16 20:12
twitter	What’s going on with the Munich migration? Sweaty B been skiing lately?	Oct 16 20:13
twitter	http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/80071	Oct 16 20:14
twitter	That’s from late 2006.	Oct 16 20:14
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jose_x	the latvia finance ministry guy talking smells bought	Oct 16 20:17
twitter	or confused	Oct 16 20:18
jose_x	in any case, ms hooks you on an expensive deal and then that is supposed to serve as a motivator for sticking with them.	Oct 16 20:18
jose_x	you already paid 10 trillion for it.. might as well use it	Oct 16 20:18
jose_x	we should call them out on that tactic	Oct 16 20:19
twitter	but the new version is so much better when they want to sell you that	Oct 16 20:19
jose_x	this way after these governments make the deal, they will look foolish	Oct 16 20:19
twitter	When it comes to M$, you have to live in the future.	Oct 16 20:19
jose_x	and not fooled	Oct 16 20:19
jose_x	and conned	Oct 16 20:19
schestowitz	Well, it goes backwards.	Oct 16 20:19
schestowitz	XP -> Vista = downgrade WS03->WS08 = worse uptime	Oct 16 20:20
twitter	M$ always says the old version had problems and the new version may not be stable but you will love the features.	Oct 16 20:20
twitter	If you imagine yourself five years from now, you realize that the new version is a turd too.	Oct 16 20:21
schestowitz	Features… new wallpapers, more ‘rights’ (digital restriction)..	Oct 16 20:21
_Doug	‘the “Microsoft Office SharePointServer” platform is used extensively in the work of several departments of the ministry. The Finance Ministry points out that there is no analog to this Microsoft platform that would meet the ministry’s criteria and be worth the investments that have already been made into the Microsoft platform’	Oct 16 20:24
_Doug	http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/fin…	Oct 16 20:24
_Doug	Datorzinibu Centrs Ltd, Contact person, Signe Balina;	Oct 16 20:26
_Doug	“Recently, company has begun to deliver Microsoft Business Solutions (Axapta, Navision, CRM)”	Oct 16 20:26
_Doug	http://www.epristart.org/epristart/partnerpool…	Oct 16 20:26
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schestowitz	_Doug: brainwashed or just shill?	Oct 16 20:28
_Doug	a bit of both and some $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$	Oct 16 20:28
schestowitz	Well, what about the World B0rk?	Oct 16 20:29
_Doug	What does SharePoint do that can’t be done in OpenSo~1	Oct 16 20:29
_Doug	“SharePoint sites are actually ASP.NET 2.0 applications, which are served using IIS and use a SQL Server database as data storage backend.”	Oct 16 20:30
schestowitz	I was trying to find news about it being hacked. Look how much news about it today: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&n…	Oct 16 20:30
_Doug	Java + a browser + a database ..	Oct 16 20:31
schestowitz	SharePoint is just lockin under a new umbrella. I hear the banks in Europe have a real “hardon” (not my word) for it.	Oct 16 20:31
schestowitz	Yes, but Java does not come from a company that knows how to Hoover money thanks to people’s stupidity… you know, like those banks in search for like-minded products.	Oct 16 20:32
_Doug	The question is, how can you tie your whole business to a ‘document solution’	Oct 16 20:33
_Doug	http://www.sharepointalternative.com/	Oct 16 20:33
_Doug	And you need more staff to maintain it …	Oct 16 20:34
schestowitz	And Gartner to poiint at it.	Oct 16 20:34
schestowitz	It’s part of The Slog — shaping of perception. Just look at their simultaneous attack at perceptions about Google.	Oct 16 20:34
schestowitz	From: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uplo… Microsoft: “Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency, as in, “he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2.” Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make the complete failure of the competition’s technology part of the mythology of the computer industry.”	Oct 16 20:35
_Doug	Makes them sound more like a cult, than an integrator of inferior software ’solutions’	Oct 16 20:37
_Doug	What people seem to forget is, that any kind of latest innotative ’solution’ reguires people to maintain it, even more so with the Microsoft paradigm ..	Oct 16 20:38
schestowitz	Well, an EU govt. delegate compared Microsoft to Scientology. Go figure…	Oct 16 20:39
_Doug	At least with Scientology, we get a box with a dial ..	Oct 16 20:39
schestowitz	Doesn’t matter. Dinner or free lunch in a nicer restaurant is more urgent a matter than long-term expenses.	Oct 16 20:39
_Doug	?	Oct 16 20:41
schestowitz	Choice of SharePoint… nothing technical. Pair or sutis, dinner, brochures… at least in the financial sector, I’d imagine…	Oct 16 20:42
_Doug	Well yea, the non-technical CIO reads about it in PCW and has a free lunch with the distributor and ‘recommends’ it to finance ..	Oct 16 20:43
_Doug	They think it’ll wrest back control of the tech department from the techies ..	Oct 16 20:43
schestowitz	Talk about distraction… http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-241860.html … well radiation ain’t no itch (pun)	Oct 16 20:43
schestowitz	Techies like Mr. Childs?	Oct 16 20:44
_Doug	Childs ?	Oct 16 20:45
schestowitz	The anti-admin stance and the Childs case - http://weblog.infoworld.com/venezia/archives/01…	Oct 16 20:45
schestowitz	San Francisco Admin Charged With Hijacking City’s Network - http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200…	Oct 16 20:45
schestowitz	Terry Childs: San Francisco’s Imprisoned FiberWAN Administrator - http://news.oreilly.com/2008/07/coverag…	Oct 16 20:46
_Doug	ahh so ..	Oct 16 20:46
schestowitz	As the admin turns: San Francisco network soap opera goes on - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/2…	Oct 16 20:46
_Doug	Who is dumb enough to let a single admin have controll of a whole city .. if indeed we can believe them ..	Oct 16 20:46
schestowitz	Of course, giving sticky notes with passwords to the MBAs would make Dilbert proud and the city more secure.	Oct 16 20:47
_Doug	Me thinks they are in a state of creative accounts losing	Oct 16 20:47
_Doug	I wonder what really happened ?	Oct 16 20:47
schestowitz	Well.. San Francisco.. CA… 3 trillion in debt?	Oct 16 20:47
_Doug	“I don’t believe it”: Victor Meldrew	Oct 16 20:48
_Doug	Don’t tell me they were using ‘integrated innov~1′	Oct 16 20:49
schestowitz	$10.1-trillion national debt? Let’s cut taxes! - http://www.latimes.com/news/local/o…	Oct 16 20:49
_Doug	FiberWAN Administrator: what OS, what system, what security protocols .. like how can they not reset passwords, with physical access to the boxen ?	Oct 16 20:50
_Doug	what’s wrong with cuting taxes, what are you a commie liberal	Oct 16 20:51
schestowitz	Liberal?	Oct 16 20:52
schestowitz	Pay up your taxes for the “liberation” of Iraqis.	Oct 16 20:52
_Doug	It’s a scare word in the US of America	Oct 16 20:52
_Doug	If you’re not for us then you’re a liberal .. or too cerebral, like Obama	Oct 16 20:53
_Doug	did you catch the ‘debate’ last night ..	Oct 16 20:54
_Doug	McCaine accused Obama of being to articulate	Oct 16 20:54
schestowitz	This is stupid: http://business.pcauthority.com.au/dow…	Oct 16 20:54
_Doug	Yea, we want some dumb-ass like us in the WhiteHouse ..	Oct 16 20:54
schestowitz	So Belnder is now: “Platform: Windows 2000,Windows XP,Windows Vista Type: freeware”???	Oct 16 20:54
_Doug	Belnder ?	Oct 16 20:55
schestowitz	But it’s PC AUTHORITY. Authority. Yes, they really know what they cover. GPL -> Freeware. Corss-platform -> Windows	Oct 16 20:55
schestowitz	Blender (ignore the typos)	Oct 16 20:55
schestowitz	_Doug: Terry Porter is back to COLA.	Oct 16 20:56
_Doug	who and why is this important	Oct 16 20:58
_Doug	gtg ..	Oct 16 21:01
_Doug	back later ..	Oct 16 21:01
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schestowitz	“Surprisingly, a large number of slot machines run Linux and the GNU system, using off-the-shelf PC motherboards and video cards” http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osr…	Oct 16 21:10
schestowitz	Here’s what I don’t get. Perens is one of those people who put his full name in the headlines and he also /precedes’ articles with his bio.	Oct 16 21:11
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twitter	So? No one outside of Slashdot and the UN knows who he is.	Oct 16 21:20
twitter	He’s not a journalist, so he has to tell you who he is the same way a M$ executive should disclose themselves.	Oct 16 21:20
twitter	Here’s a funny, I know someone at WMS Gaming. They are technically clueless, but they work there.	Oct 16 21:21
schestowitz	http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-1006754… “Matt, according to the license agreement, Microsoft lawyers would not agree that Microsoft is “distributing” open source: ;-)”	Oct 16 21:23
schestowitz	The weasels from Microsoft try to undercut Linux by bundling what they called “communism” and “Cancer”	Oct 16 21:23
schestowitz	http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/business/7673486.stm : eBay warning of tough Christmas	Oct 16 21:24
schestowitz	http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives… - Terrorist Fear Mongering Seems to be Working Less Well …”BART, the San Francisco subway authority, has been debating allowing passengers to bring drinks on trains… but one reason that makes no sense is that terrorists may bring flammable liquids on board.” … what’s next for ’security’? No clothes on train?	Oct 16 21:41
tessier_	Macintosh share of the U.S. market tops 9%	Oct 16 21:42
tessier_	http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/10…	Oct 16 21:42
schestowitz	Based on /what/?	Oct 16 21:43
schestowitz	According to some random method that produces pretty graph?	Oct 16 21:43
schestowitz	Gartner and IDC, I see… those that get their wage from the likes of Microsoft and typically slam Apple products. Gartner also said that GNU/Linux is run on 4% of the desktops, FWIW.	Oct 16 21:45
MinceR	gartner also said that winblows has a lower tco than gnu/linux	Oct 16 21:45
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schestowitz	Well, it was paid to say so, no?	Oct 16 21:47
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/03…	Oct 16 21:47
MinceR	indeed it was	Oct 16 21:48
schestowitz	Gartner is a Marketing Company… the economic collapse will hopefully drive these vain shills out of business.	Oct 16 21:48
tessier_	Ballmer Speaks, Yahoo’s Market Cap Jumps More Than $3 Billion	Oct 16 21:49
tessier_	http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/10/16/ballmer-spe…	Oct 16 21:49
schestowitz	Ballmer speaks, Hungarian man throws 3 eggs	Oct 16 21:51
schestowitz	http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S30WdoEHCH4	Oct 16 21:52
jose_x		Oct 16 21:52
twitter		Oct 16 21:52
jose_x	ballmer was attentive.. he seemed only to have panicked mildly and recovered	Oct 16 21:52
jose_x	i’m sure he didn’t think it was funny..	Oct 16 21:52
jose_x	but we can laugh	Oct 16 21:52
tessier_	America Will Remain the Superpower	Oct 16 21:53
tessier_	http://online.wsj.com/arti…	Oct 16 21:53
twitter	He was actually scared.	Oct 16 21:53
schestowitz	He and some other know they commit crimes.	Oct 16 21:53
tessier_	There’s a nice positive long term view of things.	Oct 16 21:53
twitter	So hopes the WSJ.	Oct 16 21:53
jose_x	yeah he was shaken but seemed to recover	Oct 16 21:53
schestowitz	The financial fraud (alleged, then settled) is just one example.	Oct 16 21:53
jose_x	i would imagine bill g having fared much worse	Oct 16 21:53
tessier_	WSJ does make a good point. Other countries seem to have it worse.	Oct 16 21:53
tessier_	The markets are down everywhere even more than in the US.	Oct 16 21:53
schestowitz	WSJ depends on the market	Oct 16 21:53
schestowitz	No Wall Street = no WSJ	Oct 16 21:54
schestowitz	=the very same writers have no jobs.	Oct 16 21:54
schestowitz	I read the whole thing a few weeks ago… it was filled to the rim with fear.	Oct 16 21:54
tessier_	WSJ covers a lot more than just the physical activities that happen on wall street. As long as people are investing somewhere there will be a WSJ.	Oct 16 21:54
jose_x	fear … sell sell sell	Oct 16 21:54
jose_x	the people’s faces on pictures appear so fake	Oct 16 21:55
schestowitz	Unless they create something more global.	Oct 16 21:55
schestowitz	Still, the WSJ’s expertise is the US market.	Oct 16 21:55
jose_x	the traders’ faces.. i wonder if that is intended	Oct 16 21:55
schestowitz	This can’t be good for their subscriber$$	Oct 16 21:55
schestowitz	They already lose quite a bite due to the Web, IIRC.	Oct 16 21:55
tessier_	hmm….WaMu and other big banks were perceived as being too big to fail. Microsoft is too. I hope they are analagous.	Oct 16 21:55
schestowitz	They considered making all the content free online	Oct 16 21:55
jose_x	can’t you just walk onto a subway with a bunch of deadly diseases on you..	Oct 16 21:56
schestowitz	Microsoft is checking WaMu for the money these days.	Oct 16 21:56
schestowitz	Can’t trust banks anymore..	Oct 16 21:56
jose_x	you might even have the cure for yourself	Oct 16 21:56
jose_x	and yet no coca cola allowed	Oct 16 21:56
jose_x	we can do outreach to potential terrorists..	Oct 16 21:57
jose_x	gates can serve us well here	Oct 16 21:57
twitter	Their grip on Byzantine history is not so good.	Oct 16 21:58
jose_x	he can distract and convince anyone of anything	Oct 16 21:58
jose_x	by outreach i mean to reach out to them and have them realize they have nothing to gain but.. instead can buy this great MS product and achieve nirvana	Oct 16 21:59
twitter	debt?	Oct 16 21:59
jose_x	i think gates can convert terrorists into relatively harmless zombies	Oct 16 21:59
twitter	Like China? Good luck with that.	Oct 16 21:59
jose_x	mr gates, are you listening? hope this message is passed on to him by the lurkers here	Oct 16 22:00
*jose_x is now known as jose		Oct 16 22:03
jose	testing	Oct 16 22:04
twitter	OK, jose	Oct 16 22:05
jose	thanks.. that was the first time i changed nick on irc	Oct 16 22:05
jose	one tiny step for mankind, but a leap for me	Oct 16 22:05
schestowitz	Someone is challenging Perens in BN.	Oct 16 22:06
jose	where	Oct 16 22:06
schestowitz	Posted minutes ago in http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/16/apache… : “Are people supposed to take Perens’ claim at face value, or are you planning to also paste a link to some sort of proof? You know, proof.”	Oct 16 22:06
twitter	Typical troll claim. No counter argument or references, just harassment.	Oct 16 22:07
MinceR	lol	Oct 16 22:08
twitter	and confusing bullshit.	Oct 16 22:10
schestowitz	The poster has no listed IP, I think.	Oct 16 22:10
schestowitz	But it’s not as though it came from a black hole like thrashers.	Oct 16 22:11
schestowitz	Maybe it’s prejudiced, but I consider that a flag.	Oct 16 22:11
schestowitz	SUSE delays: http://news.opensuse.org/2008/10/16…	Oct 16 22:11
twitter	http://apache.slashdot.org/apache/0…	Oct 16 22:11
schestowitz	More delays: http://news.opensuse.org/2008/10/…	Oct 16 22:12
twitter	Thanks for the E17 and other embedded links today. I pushed several of them into a Slashdot story that was actually accepted. http://mobile.slashdot.org/article…	Oct 16 22:13
schestowitz	I notice that Xen (Citrix) has also just adopted LGPL for their news preview/product.	Oct 16 22:13
schestowitz	Does Microsoft has special reason to be drawn into LGPL?	Oct 16 22:14
twitter	It is less protective than GPL.	Oct 16 22:14
schestowitz	Cool.	Oct 16 22:15
schestowitz	Many good links in one story.	Oct 16 22:15
twitter	http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html	Oct 16 22:15
schestowitz	I see noad hominem troll comments in /.	Oct 16 22:16
twitter	interesting.	Oct 16 22:17
PetoKraus	yes, though they went on bashing E	Oct 16 22:17
twitter	according to gnu, you should only use lgpl, “when a free library’s features are readily available for proprietary software through other alternative libraries. In that case, the library cannot give free software any particular advantage, so it is better to use the Lesser GPL for that library”	Oct 16 22:17
schestowitz	For future reference (since I don’t trust Xentric): “On Tuesday, Citrix Systems released a technology preview of Project Kensho as \| open source software under the Lesser General Public License (LGPL). It is \| available as a free download on the Citrix Developer Network.” http://www.serverwatch.com/news/article….	Oct 16 22:17
twitter	LGPL looks like the next evolution in license FUD and sucker draw in. It may take the place of BSD, etc. in their nonsense.	Oct 16 22:18
schestowitz	PetoKraus: because it’s a yellow E, not a Blue E(R)	Oct 16 22:18
PetoKraus		Oct 16 22:19
MinceR	are you going to bash LGPL now?	Oct 16 22:19
schestowitz	Microsoft spreads lots of GPL FUD	Oct 16 22:19
schestowitz	They have Word documents tossing FUD at it, mischaracterising it like they always do	Oct 16 22:19
twitter	The trolls are still busy with earlier posts of mine. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=998093…	Oct 16 22:20
schestowitz	MinceR: no, it’s just that Xen is/was GPL and now I see their product having the “lesser” added.	Oct 16 22:20
MinceR	ic	Oct 16 22:20
schestowitz	I think it’s mainly a Windows product.. desktop hypervisor.	Oct 16 22:20
twitter	and http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99…	Oct 16 22:20
schestowitz	Troll/AstroTurf tactics.	Oct 16 22:21
schestowitz	Insult user.	Oct 16 22:21
schestowitz	Then mod up the insult.	Oct 16 22:21
schestowitz	Mod down the poster.	Oct 16 22:21
twitter	the usual.	Oct 16 22:21
schestowitz	If the poster defends himself, mod it down quickly.	Oct 16 22:21
schestowitz	If the poster accuses the others of trolling, use words like “tinfoil” and paranoid”, then mod down.	Oct 16 22:21
twitter	the E17 story seems to have caught them by surprise.	Oct 16 22:22
schestowitz	Mod up comments saying ”tinfoil” and “paranoid”	Oct 16 22:22
schestowitz	Rinse and repeat	Oct 16 22:22
schestowitz	If poster walks away from site, CH-Ching! please proceed to payment from SweatyB.	Oct 16 22:22
schestowitz	It’s like Warcraft sorcerers with mana, casting spells on one another.	Oct 16 22:23
PetoKraus	doh, the computers i’d like to get are so expensive	Oct 16 22:26
schestowitz	What about those GBP3000?	Oct 16 22:26
PetoKraus	they didn’t arrive yet.	Oct 16 22:27
PetoKraus	though, actually, the machines i’d like to get are not made yet	Oct 16 22:27
PetoKraus	i wanna something based on AMD Puma	Oct 16 22:27
schestowitz	My current main PC cost about GBP340	Oct 16 22:31
PetoKraus	mine is still pretty well priced, specwise	Oct 16 22:31
schestowitz	Excluding the Redmond tax and monitors.	Oct 16 22:31
twitter	Ick, look what they did to this guy. http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/David_Gerard	Oct 16 22:32
twitter	trolls.	Oct 16 22:32
schestowitz	Try to avoid NVidia.	Oct 16 22:32
schestowitz	He’s great.	Oct 16 22:32
schestowitz	I hardly know him, but he reads and supports BN	Oct 16 22:32
PetoKraus	i bought it last year - Core 2 Duo T7200, 2GB, 120GB, Dedicated Radeon X1400 for 559 with mouse and backpack - there’s not much better deals on right now	Oct 16 22:32
PetoKraus	the prices went up again	Oct 16 22:33
PetoKraus	though, the chassis is crappy - half of glasgow has it (Inspiron 6400)	Oct 16 22:33
schestowitz	twitter: David must really be flattered if he annoyed trolls to the point where he gets so much harassment	Oct 16 22:33
twitter	got there from here http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?…	Oct 16 22:34
PetoKraus	though what i wanna now is not a massive performance machine, i just want something really wee - ideally something on lines of Toshiba Portege r500. Thinkpads cost craploads, toshiba costs ?1.2k, dell offers are crappy, and i don’t like HP THAT much	Oct 16 22:35
twitter	the real person, http://www.davidgerard.co.uk/	Oct 16 22:35
schestowitz	H-P are bad… they spy on journalists and try to push them flatter H-P. They are also buddies of Microsoft, Silverlight and MOOX.	Oct 16 22:36
twitter	M$ hates Wikipedia. That is what they do to those who run the place.	Oct 16 22:36
PetoKraus	though i’d like to get something like… http://www.cheaplaptops.org.uk/20080626…	Oct 16 22:37
PetoKraus	freaking hp.	Oct 16 22:37
schestowitz	David got a good domain: today.com	Oct 16 22:37
schestowitz	twitter: Microsoft is ‘brushing up’ Wikipedia now.	Oct 16 22:38
schestowitz	They glorify their technology and people in it. I’ve seen examples and you can track IPs too. Microsoft pays for that type of stuff.	Oct 16 22:38
schestowitz	I’ve just subscribed to David’s blog	Oct 16 22:40
twitter	Looks like a clueful person.	Oct 16 22:47
schestowitz	Yes, he comments in BN are alright. He wouldn’t be smeared if he didn’t make sense. Those who make fools of themselves don’t need the ‘help’ of others in discrediting their message the ad hominem way.	Oct 16 22:48
schestowitz	Here is Enlightenment in a new article: http://www.linux.com/feature/150103	Oct 16 22:49
jose	when did the ms godaddy deal first take place?	Oct 16 23:18
schestowitz	2006 I think	Oct 16 23:18
jose	yes, nevermind, i found a link	Oct 16 23:18
jose	thanks. .. i’ll reply to betto soon	Oct 16 23:18
schestowitz	There’s more.	Oct 16 23:18
jose	for example straight from ms land http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/20…	Oct 16 23:19
jose	“Go Daddy to transition all its parked domains from Linux to Microsoft.”	Oct 16 23:19
jose	it doesn’t get more explicit than that from the horses mouth	Oct 16 23:20
schestowitz	Yes	Oct 16 23:20
schestowitz	Perens wasn’t even sure.	Oct 16 23:20
schestowitz	It was imporant for Microsoft, in a formal PR, to describe this also as a loss for Linux.	Oct 16 23:20
schestowitz	Not just gaming against Apache.	Oct 16 23:20
*PetoKraus has quit (”The purpose of IRC is to…IDLE…”)		Oct 16 23:22
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc4-broo2-0-0-cust1012.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell		Oct 16 23:23
jose	the search link was this btw http://www.google.com/searc…	Oct 16 23:25
jose	microsoft godaddy parked domains	Oct 16 23:25
jose	it shows many other articles so there may be more interesting things in there	Oct 16 23:26
jose	april 2006 btw	Oct 16 23:26
*pombat42 has quit (”Leaving”)		Oct 16 23:29
schestowitz	Submitted to Slashdot under headline “GoDaddy.com Dumps Linux for Microsoft” by http://www.dixie-chicks.com/ (*NIX server)	Oct 16 23:29
schestowitz	It would be interesting to go back and see how much noise Microsoft made in the media over this. Maybe an inclusion in some shiny brochure of ‘case studies’ too.	Oct 16 23:30
schestowitz	I guess only Bob Parson knows the truth about what happened.	Oct 16 23:30
schestowitz	http://www.bobparsons.tv/Wanttosuperchargeyour…	Oct 16 23:31
jose	>> saying that they’ll provide ‘a technology platform that is security-enhanced, highly scalable and easy to manage.’	Oct 16 23:31
schestowitz	GoDaddy head: “I give credit for this rule to Bill Gates of Microsoft. I noticed over the years that it is rare that Microsoft gets it right the first time they release any new product. However, because they never stop development on their products, eventually they get it right and eventually their products become either the best available in their particular category, or one of the best.”	Oct 16 23:31
MinceR	rotfl	Oct 16 23:32
jose	the wording gives impression that Linux is not as secure as scalable or easy to manage	Oct 16 23:32
MinceR	they let drooling idiots like that lead companies?	Oct 16 23:32
schestowitz	Well, maybe they got $$.	Oct 16 23:34
schestowitz	In$$entives.	Oct 16 23:35
MinceR	gn	Oct 16 23:38
schestowitz	Shit.	Oct 16 23:38
schestowitz	I think my GPU is bad.	Oct 16 23:38
schestowitz	Gone semi dark for a moment.	Oct 16 23:39
schestowitz	Stupid NVidia.	Oct 16 23:39

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