| *PeterKraus (n=Peter@cpc4-broo2-0-0-cust1012.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 00:35 |
| *[JaDe]PK (n=Peter@cpc4-broo2-0-0-cust1012.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 00:54 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
Nov 08 00:55 |
| *[JaDe]PK is now known as PetoKraus |
Nov 08 00:56 |
| *PeterKraus has quit (Success) |
Nov 08 00:58 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
Nov 08 01:11 |
| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc4-broo2-0-0-cust1012.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 01:12 |
| twitter |
You are not kidding about the parting gift. Around 10% will go to salaries, heavily weighted to bonuses. Much of the remainder is being used for acquisitions that would violate trust laws under normal circumstances. We fund and inherit nationalized banking. |
Nov 08 01:22 |
| schestowitz |
It’s disgusting, but what can you do? Say no and they’ll tag you a TERROR~1. |
Nov 08 01:23 |
| schestowitz |
The way I read it, RMS called for Obama to prosecute Bush for ware crimes too, but I didn’t read it carefully. |
Nov 08 01:24 |
| twitter |
I’m relatively sure that I’m already on the no fly list. I can’t check in early, I get pulled over for extra searches, etc, etc. This was a problem once that delayed people traveling with me to a conference. |
Nov 08 01:31 |
| twitter |
These lists are pathetic. |
Nov 08 01:32 |
| twitter |
Ina Fried says, ” Microsoft said on its server blog that the prebeta is available only to those at WinHEC or the TechEd EMEA conference, while everyone else will have to wait until the beta is released early next year.” |
Nov 08 01:32 |
| twitter |
I feel so left out. |
Nov 08 01:32 |
| twitter |
boo hoo. |
Nov 08 01:32 |
| schestowitz |
What’s it about? |
Nov 08 01:34 |
| schestowitz |
Reports like this should be sacked. Microsoft plants them to serve as talking points and deceive. Ed Bott, Enderle, Microsoft Jack… |
Nov 08 01:35 |
| twitter |
Oh, that was the Windows 2008 server coverage by Ina Fried but it is common exclusion for those who will not do as they are told. |
Nov 08 01:39 |
| twitter |
It’s the M$ way or the highway as far as M$ is concerned. They would not just honestly sell things, they always have to exert control, make deals, that kind of thing. |
Nov 08 01:40 |
| MinceR |
gn |
Nov 08 01:43 |
| schestowitz |
CNET needs to be buries. A lot of the same applies to other channels that are akin to commercials 24/7 |
Nov 08 01:43 |
| twitter |
Buying search customers, that’s a plan Sweaty B must have had fun announcing to his investors. |
Nov 08 01:43 |
| twitter |
“Like we will get people to buy things and then pay them so that we can get eyballs for advertisers who want to sell things.” Big long coke snort. |
Nov 08 01:44 |
| twitter |
Some restrictions apply, “ Kok Waii Wong, Microsoft’s group product manager for Live Search, announced the 25 percent eBay rebate on the blog. There are some conditions, though, including a $200 cashback limit and payment through PayPal only. It’s offered only in the United States.” |
Nov 08 01:44 |
| twitter |
I can only imagine the barriers they will set up to keep from having to pay anything. |
Nov 08 01:45 |
| schestowitz |
They still SPAM Web sites. |
Nov 08 01:47 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft has the mentality of selfish people who throw bottles out the truck’s window |
Nov 08 01:47 |
| schestowitz |
They also trashes New York last year and were fined/forced to apologise. |
Nov 08 01:48 |
| schestowitz |
*trashed |
Nov 08 01:48 |
| twitter |
I’ve seen some of that trashing a few years ago. They were trying to advertise MSN, so they paid a lot of people to make noise in bee and butterfly costumes. That’s OK, I suppose, but they also littered everything up with sticker spam. Hate sticker spam. |
Nov 08 01:51 |
| twitter |
good night |
Nov 08 01:52 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, that’s the incident. |
Nov 08 01:52 |
| schestowitz |
RMS has just given talks in Spanish: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRyams00WeM |
Nov 08 02:24 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
Nov 08 03:32 |
| *Lee703 (i=41251762@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b2bfac6708331f0b) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 05:39 |
| *macabe has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
Nov 08 06:38 |
| *Lee703 has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
Nov 08 06:38 |
| tessier |
His spanish is frightening. |
Nov 08 07:24 |
| *macabe (i=43f0d869@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ce5031179f374dcc) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 07:43 |
| schestowitz |
How is it frightening? |
Nov 08 08:17 |
| schestowitz |
http://technocrat.net/d/2… “For tech employees, jobs no longer come with a lifetime guarantee. Companies are shedding people in small numbers and keeping their actions under the radar. “ |
Nov 08 08:20 |
| schestowitz |
More in http://technocrat.net/d/2008/11/7/53633 |
Nov 08 08:21 |
| *trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-234-180.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 08:22 |
| schestowitz |
http://vale.homelinux.net/wordpress/2008/11/0… “It got dugg by a person I know well, Groklaw has it in the newspicks, Schestowitz will have it in his news overview tomorrow – nevertheless, this story is so good I had to repeat it on my tiny blog.” |
Nov 08 08:45 |
| schestowitz |
PC maker -Micron- MPC files for chapter 11 bankruptcy: http://www.channelregister.co.u… |
Nov 08 11:00 |
| schestowitz |
What does this say? (subs required) Openmoko launches Android handset : http://www.telecom.paper.nl/news/articl… |
Nov 08 11:02 |
| schestowitz |
Sun and Moto Icons no more .. http://www.economist.com/business/dis… |
Nov 08 11:10 |
| *dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 11:10 |
| *dsmith_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
Nov 08 11:12 |
| schestowitz |
“According to a report issued today by City and Guilds productivity in the UK is suffering as 5.3 million workers lose at least two and a half hours of work each week dealing with other people’s IT troubles. |
Nov 08 11:31 |
| schestowitz |
The report revealed that over half of companies rely on employees that happen to know how to use computers to sort out others’ problems, meaning that many end up doing over-time.” |
Nov 08 11:31 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/new… |
Nov 08 11:32 |
| schestowitz |
Even Linux bloggers seem to be echoing some ugly FUD these days. Net Applications is rubbish, but they keep citing it. http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2008… “Is this supposed to be some kind of unbiased sample? But wait, there’s more…The complexity of this problem is actually rather large. But I can tell you one thing: If you were |
Nov 08 12:02 |
| schestowitz |
my graduate student and you came to me with this sampling strategy, I’d send you back to kindergarten. (If I had that power.) ” |
Nov 08 12:02 |
| schestowitz |
Here is something to keep in mind: “Windows-powered personal computers account for more than 90% of unit sales,. Linux 4%, Gartner says.” < http://ca.biz.yahoo.com/ibd/08… [expired] > |
Nov 08 12:03 |
| schestowitz |
Google Sued For $3 Billion Over AdSense < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/11/… > |
Nov 08 12:50 |
| schestowitz |
More of the same: Nortel Could Slash Workforce by 10% on Monday < http://www.pcworld.com/article/153510/no… > |
Nov 08 12:56 |
| schestowitz |
Apple just works?? “A pair of iPhone problems grabbed my attention this week. Let’s jump right in. Error 0xE8000035 prevents iPhone connecting to iTunes” Bugs & Fixes: IPhone Connect Errors, Audiobook Crashes < http://www.pcworld.com/article/153… > |
Nov 08 12:59 |
| MinceR |
geekings |
Nov 08 13:25 |
| *_doug (n=configna@) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 13:54 |
| trmanco |
LOOOL |
Nov 08 13:54 |
| schestowitz |
What did you see? |
Nov 08 13:54 |
| trmanco |
“It contains a wide range of bugfixes, and all users of the 2.6.27 kernel |
Nov 08 13:55 |
| trmanco |
series are strongly encouraged to upgrade. Very strongly. Did I |
Nov 08 13:55 |
| trmanco |
mention that you all should upgrade? Seriously, what are you waiting |
Nov 08 13:55 |
| trmanco |
for? Running those old kernel trees prior to .27? Are you crazy? You |
Nov 08 13:55 |
| trmanco |
really want to run this one. It’s all shiny new and has that lovely |
Nov 08 13:55 |
| trmanco |
new-kernel smell that we all know and love.” |
Nov 08 13:55 |
| trmanco |
I will give you the link to the email as soon as I find it |
Nov 08 13:55 |
| trmanco |
Found it -> http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&… |
Nov 08 13:56 |
| _doug |
Is Boycott Novell just a wee bit biased? |
Nov 08 14:03 |
| _doug |
http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2008/05/is… |
Nov 08 14:03 |
| _doug |
“That’s like asking is the Pope Catholic. “ |
Nov 08 14:05 |
| _doug |
 |
Nov 08 14:05 |
| _doug |
“Boycott Novell – A Bunch of Loons…” |
Nov 08 14:07 |
| _doug |
http://edropple.com/2008/09/04/boycott-nov… |
Nov 08 14:07 |
| schestowitz |
Isn’t Beebe a wee bit biased? http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2005/05/i… |
Nov 08 14:07 |
| _doug |
“Boycott Novell’s Free Software Credibility List and me” |
Nov 08 14:08 |
| _doug |
http://brucebyfield.wordpress.com/… |
Nov 08 14:08 |
| _doug |
Bill Beebe: I care deeply about Linux and want to see it grow .. |
Nov 08 14:09 |
| schestowitz |
*LOL* http://sconewsroundup.blogspot.com/ |
Nov 08 14:09 |
| _doug |
yet another fan who just wants Linux be better |
Nov 08 14:10 |
| _doug |
“Huh? Boycott this Boycott Novell baloney” |
Nov 08 14:10 |
| _doug |
http://byrondennis.typepad.com/it_inves… |
Nov 08 14:10 |
| _doug |
You do seem to be popular lately .. all these people decide to give you a mention |
Nov 08 14:11 |
| schestowitz |
You have to look at /who/ protests. |
Nov 08 14:17 |
| schestowitz |
Remember Byron? |
Nov 08 14:17 |
| schestowitz |
Remember Groklaw’s article about Linux as an IBM-HP conspiracy? |
Nov 08 14:18 |
| schestowitz |
That came from him. |
Nov 08 14:18 |
| schestowitz |
Also check out what he said about ODF. |
Nov 08 14:18 |
| schestowitz |
As for Beebe, well… I suppose you know. |
Nov 08 14:18 |
| _doug |
yea .. it’s all just so much SPIN~1 |
Nov 08 14:19 |
| _doug |
“LG Electronics (LG) and Microsoft have announced the signing of Memorandum of Understanding (MoU)” |
Nov 08 14:19 |
| _doug |
http://www.computingsa.co.za/art… |
Nov 08 14:19 |
| schestowitz |
Many of the rest are Novellers or SUSErs or Microsoft fans like Jack S***field. |
Nov 08 14:19 |
| schestowitz |
Memorandum of Collusion |
Nov 08 14:19 |
| schestowitz |
http://boycottnovell.com/2007/06/0… |
Nov 08 14:20 |
| _doug |
Microsoft patented embedded Linux devices .. |
Nov 08 14:21 |
| _doug |
patents are like retro-viruses, used as a vector to inject foreign DNA into a company |
Nov 08 14:22 |
| _doug |
impossible to remove .. your company owned for ever … |
Nov 08 14:23 |
| schestowitz |
Sounds like OOXML. |
Nov 08 14:24 |
| trmanco |
http://es.appleweblog.com/wp-content/upl… |
Nov 08 14:24 |
| _doug |
an ‘obligate parasite’ cannot lead an independent nonparasitic existence .. |
Nov 08 14:25 |
| _doug |
considering the currrent downturn in the economy, it makes you wonder why companies still spend, on average 1/5 of their revenue on software licenses ? |
Nov 08 14:26 |
| schestowitz |
trmanco: this picture misses some options. |
Nov 08 14:26 |
| schestowitz |
The simplistic view of the world: you have two choices… Obama or McCain, Mac or ‘PC’ (hey, isn’t a Mac also a personal computer?) |
Nov 08 14:26 |
| trmanco |
we can always add those options |
Nov 08 14:27 |
| schestowitz |
_doug: why? Corruption. They build a system that favours monopolies. |
Nov 08 14:27 |
| _doug |
I asked a developer with a medical company why, and the answer was they had so much invested in Windows that it would be impossible to do business without MS .. |
Nov 08 14:27 |
| schestowitz |
“According to the Center for Responsive Politics, more than 100 former FCC employees have also worked in the private sector. At least 50 percent of them have lobbied on issues related to telecom, communications, and broadcast at some point in their careers.” |
Nov 08 14:28 |
| schestowitz |
“Rivera is not currently registered as a lobbyist, but according to the Center for Responsive Politics, he lobbied for the Catholic Television Network in 2001.” <http://news.cnet.com/8301-13739_3-10… >. |
Nov 08 14:28 |
| _doug |
Which begs the question as to how they allowed such a state to come about in the first place .. totally reliant on a third company, to do business .. |
Nov 08 14:28 |
| schestowitz |
Closed source is good for tracking: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir… |
Nov 08 14:29 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft Windows: approves by Republicans and comrades. Spy-compatible… |
Nov 08 14:29 |
| _doug |
Google Finance http://snipurl.com/58bs0 |
Nov 08 14:36 |
| _doug |
Nicrosoft Finance http://snipurl.com/58bsz |
Nov 08 14:37 |
| _doug |
A bit volatile … |
Nov 08 14:37 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft buys its own stock though. |
Nov 08 14:38 |
| schestowitz |
It would have been in its teens a long time ago otherwise. Microsoft is left with less cash than Apple. Debt is near. |
Nov 08 14:38 |
| schestowitz |
When Vista 7 turns out to be another problem and the cash runs out, maybe — just maybe — Ballmer will be ousted. |
Nov 08 14:39 |
| _doug |
I don’t see it in personal terms, Ballmer did a very good job of selling a mediocre product .. |
Nov 08 14:41 |
| _doug |
If he was running Apple, then the Mac would be everywhere .. |
Nov 08 14:42 |
| _doug |
Of course stagnation rules the PC market. The only thing MS can do is bring out an even more bloated version .. |
Nov 08 14:43 |
| schestowitz |
The law is broken. |
Nov 08 14:43 |
| schestowitz |
The supervision is ‘bought’ (cronies). Microsoft just exploits it. |
Nov 08 14:44 |
| _doug |
The main effect of ‘Windows everywhere’ has been to disuade others from entering the market. |
Nov 08 14:44 |
| _doug |
MS recognises the PC market is saturated, which is why they are moving to software-as-a-service and cloud computing. |
Nov 08 14:45 |
| _doug |
Of course it is they who will own the tubes … |
Nov 08 14:46 |
| schestowitz |
No, not so fast |
Nov 08 14:46 |
| schestowitz |
They try to discourage options, I agree with you on that./ |
Nov 08 14:46 |
| schestowitz |
Realising that Linux can’t go away, they already try to restrict choice to SUSE. |
Nov 08 14:46 |
| _doug |
It is with some astonishment that historians will look back at how a reseller of Seattles QDOS leveraged thenselves into owing it all .. with a little help from the lawyers .. |
Nov 08 14:47 |
| schestowitz |
The birth of tyrants with silver spoons in their mouths and an army of lobbyists. |
Nov 08 14:48 |
| schestowitz |
http://philip.greenspun.com/bg/ |
Nov 08 14:48 |
| _doug |
Think of it, most any business can run a full client/server solution without paying a cent to Redmond. |
Nov 08 14:49 |
| _doug |
Yet we queue up to send our annual tithe to NS .. why ??? |
Nov 08 14:49 |
| _doug |
and keep getting phone calls from the AV people to renew our subscription .. |
Nov 08 14:52 |
| _doug |
Of course NS had to kill a lot of companies along the way .. can’t make an omlet without breaking necks |
Nov 08 14:53 |
| schestowitz |
That’s the philosophy. |
Nov 08 14:54 |
| schestowitz |
“Tilt into death spiral” and “cut the air supply” |
Nov 08 14:54 |
| schestowitz |
Spot competition; destroy; repeat |
Nov 08 14:54 |
| _doug |
Most other chiefs of the major companies would have acted the same. Remember, business is war … |
Nov 08 14:56 |
| _doug |
I read somewhere that most CEOs exibit all the personality trates of a psychopathic personality .. |
Nov 08 14:56 |
| _doug |
What’s the point of being boss, if you can’t dump on people |
Nov 08 14:57 |
| _doug |
I saw a video of Larry Ellison, taking a meeting, while walking from his limo to the jet, while changing his shirt. That’s similar to the business breakfast. You know what a business breakfast is, that’s when you’re not important wenough to have lunch or dinner with the Boss .. |
Nov 08 14:59 |
| schestowitz |
There are still rules |
Nov 08 14:59 |
| schestowitz |
Intel bribes. is that fair? |
Nov 08 14:59 |
| _doug |
rules are made to be ignored .. |
Nov 08 14:59 |
| _doug |
Working in the business sector is all, lies, more lies and empty promises, and that’s just your own co-workers .. |
Nov 08 15:00 |
| schestowitz |
Well, then become an activist and help the cause |
Nov 08 15:01 |
| schestowitz |
The less resistance there is, the more corruption you’ll suffer from |
Nov 08 15:01 |
| schestowitz |
The Bush gang’s parting gift: a final, frantic looting of public wealth < http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfre… > |
Nov 08 15:01 |
| *seller_liar (i=bd12d06f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6adbaee6a0c448f8) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 15:10 |
| seller_liar |
M$ sponsors a capaign to help people with physical disabilities |
Nov 08 15:12 |
| seller_liar |
is a “false goodwill” and ” a big indirectly ad campaign” |
Nov 08 15:12 |
| seller_liar |
in Brazil there are a campaign called “Tele Ton” which helps people with disababilites |
Nov 08 15:13 |
| seller_liar |
m$ gives to 250K to 300 K of money |
Nov 08 15:13 |
| seller_liar |
it’s better do not force african people do not use windowz |
Nov 08 15:14 |
| schestowitz |
They do lots of PR like this. |
Nov 08 15:16 |
| schestowitz |
In India they now claim to help fight HIV |
Nov 08 15:16 |
| schestowitz |
it’s like the robber baron throwing a nickel to claim benevolence |
Nov 08 15:16 |
| seller_liar |
and the big problem is this campaign show a lot of time the m$ logo |
Nov 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz |
Of course. |
Nov 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz |
They get their money’s worth. |
Nov 08 15:17 |
| seller_liar |
This enforces people emotions |
Nov 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz |
Good will from a company? Not at the shareholder’s expense. |
Nov 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz |
Yes |
Nov 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz |
And they use it to defend themselves when accused of their crimes. |
Nov 08 15:17 |
| seller_liar |
“Hey stupid do not speak bad about m$! It helps people with disabilites” |
Nov 08 15:18 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, that’s the idea. |
Nov 08 15:19 |
| schestowitz |
Or “Don’t say anything about Gates. he’s a philanthropist” |
Nov 08 15:20 |
| schestowitz |
If people say this to you, educate them. I put some videos here: http://boycottnovell.com/200… |
Nov 08 15:20 |
| seller_liar |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Rv708HSck |
Nov 08 15:20 |
| seller_liar |
ok |
Nov 08 15:22 |
| schestowitz |
Corporate or government propaganda is powerful though, so you’re faced with mountains of brainwash to annul. |
Nov 08 15:22 |
| seller_liar |
yes |
Nov 08 15:23 |
| seller_liar |
O lot of sensasionalism too |
Nov 08 15:23 |
| schestowitz |
Help spread the word. The Internet is powerful. |
Nov 08 15:23 |
| seller_liar |
“Oh boy help us, look for this poor children!!” |
Nov 08 15:24 |
| _doug |
“You’re using Internet Explorer, Our Player might not work , please use Mozilla Firefox for the best streaming experience” |
Nov 08 15:24 |
| _doug |
|
Nov 08 15:24 |
| seller_liar |
Look OpenSolaris RC1 |
Nov 08 15:25 |
| seller_liar |
http://www.genunix.org/ |
Nov 08 15:25 |
| schestowitz |
Messy page |
Nov 08 15:26 |
| seller_liar |
Why? |
Nov 08 15:26 |
| seller_liar |
Messy? |
Nov 08 15:26 |
| schestowitz |
Lots of details in one page. Like old SourceForge. |
Nov 08 15:27 |
| schestowitz |
I notice Schillix there. |
Nov 08 15:27 |
| schestowitz |
_doug would know Jeorg Schilling. |
Nov 08 15:27 |
| seller_liar |
Jorg Schilling is the creater of cdrtools |
Nov 08 15:28 |
| seller_liar |
Schilling somes years ago have a dispute with debian people |
Nov 08 15:28 |
| seller_liar |
Jorg changed the licence of cdrtools and debian does not like |
Nov 08 15:29 |
| seller_liar |
and then debian people have created a fork of cdrtools called cdrkit |
Nov 08 15:29 |
| seller_liar |
but there a lib called libburnia |
Nov 08 15:30 |
| seller_liar |
is very good |
Nov 08 15:30 |
| *seller_liar has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) |
Nov 08 15:30 |
| *_doug has quit () |
Nov 08 15:57 |
| twitter |
“When Vista 7 turns out to be another problem and the cash runs out, maybe — just maybe — Ballmer will be ousted.” LOL, those idiots will just replace him with another asshole. M$ was built by people like him and Gates, so it’s rotten to the core. |
Nov 08 16:28 |
| twitter |
M$ is going to be raped from the inside until it implodes like Enron and Worldcom did. |
Nov 08 16:29 |
| schestowitz |
I hear Bush might have to find new occupation… |
Nov 08 16:29 |
| twitter |
Why? He’s independently wealthy now, isn’t he? |
Nov 08 16:30 |
| schestowitz |
It’s about the thrill of abuse, not about wealth (resting on one’s laurel) |
Nov 08 16:33 |
| schestowitz |
*laurels |
Nov 08 16:33 |
| twitter |
hmmm. Bush likes being a big shot and his incompetence has left a lot of people tortured, jailed and dead, but I’m not sure he really enjoys inflicting pain. |
Nov 08 17:08 |
| twitter |
Here’s a strange account of the Yahoo/M$ slog, with M$ the victim of a patent M$ covets. http://www.techuser.net/microsoft-yahoo.html |
Nov 08 17:09 |
| twitter |
It would be like M$ to want a patent to shake at Google. Hopefully, the elimination of business method patents nixes all of that. |
Nov 08 17:10 |
| twitter |
It’s more like M$ to destroy rivals and scoop up their assets and select employees. |
Nov 08 17:11 |
| *yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-71-188-245-175.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 17:13 |
| yuhong |
What is a reliable way to determine if MS is reformed? |
Nov 08 17:13 |
| yuhong |
Because I was thinking of ideas for reform of MS. |
Nov 08 17:14 |
| yuhong |
But even I would not like it if MS appears to be reformed when it is really not. |
Nov 08 17:14 |
| schestowitz |
Hi, yuhong. |
Nov 08 17:16 |
| schestowitz |
yuhong: reform? You need to change the staff and business model |
Nov 08 17:16 |
| schestowitz |
It won’t happen because you can’t change inter-personal culture and it’s impossible to change business strategy overnight without killing the company. |
Nov 08 17:17 |
| schestowitz |
See Novell for details. |
Nov 08 17:17 |
| yuhong |
I’m not hoping that it will actually happen. |
Nov 08 17:20 |
| yuhong |
But I think a realiable way to determine whether it did happen is still a good idea. |
Nov 08 17:20 |
| yuhong |
At least anytime soon. |
Nov 08 17:21 |
| yuhong |
But I think a reliable way to see whether MS is reformed or not is still a good idea. |
Nov 08 17:22 |
| yuhong |
I don’t think Windows will die anytime soon. |
Nov 08 17:23 |
| MinceR |
i think it will die soon |
Nov 08 17:23 |
| yuhong |
And would be sad if either Windows or Linux dies. |
Nov 08 17:23 |
| schestowitz |
The problem is that Microsoft spreads its people around as it implodes |
Nov 08 17:23 |
| MinceR |
vista, vista7, oems offering linux are signs |
Nov 08 17:23 |
| yuhong |
Because competion is always good. |
Nov 08 17:23 |
| schestowitz |
It ‘poisons’ other companies with its arrogant Microsoft and tendencies to prefer Microsoft products (that’s all they know and its a former employer). See BBC for details. |
Nov 08 17:24 |
| MinceR |
m$ abhors competition |
Nov 08 17:24 |
| MinceR |
the “competition” from their products is worthless |
Nov 08 17:24 |
| yuhong |
Why? |
Nov 08 17:24 |
| schestowitz |
yuhong: yes, competition is good. Microsoft is innately ANTI-competitive. |
Nov 08 17:24 |
| MinceR |
because they’re so far behind in terms of quality and functionality that people don’t choose their products for them |
Nov 08 17:24 |
| MinceR |
the only reason their products survive is that they’ve managed to push them onto the unknowing masses |
Nov 08 17:25 |
| schestowitz |
They build a bad foundation. |
Nov 08 17:25 |
| MinceR |
and then exploit the monopoly they’ve gained |
Nov 08 17:25 |
| schestowitz |
They chose not to rely on UNIX structures… |
Nov 08 17:25 |
| MinceR |
which is going away now |
Nov 08 17:25 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft in 2008 is like Apple in 1998 |
Nov 08 17:25 |
| schestowitz |
They will need to rewrite or perish |
Nov 08 17:25 |
| yuhong |
Time for a little bit of history. |
Nov 08 17:25 |
| yuhong |
I am not going that far, but time for a little bit of history. |
Nov 08 17:26 |
| yuhong |
Guess how MS got it’s monopoly. |
Nov 08 17:26 |
| yuhong |
MS-DOS. |
Nov 08 17:26 |
| schestowitz |
They still put lipstick on a Windows pig, bolting in \security’ as though it’s a third-part feature or some subs-for product like OneCare. |
Nov 08 17:26 |
| yuhong |
And guess why MS-DOS won? |
Nov 08 17:27 |
| yuhong |
You guessed it, Digital Research dropped the ball. |
Nov 08 17:27 |
| yuhong |
I mean, CP/M-86 was so delayed that SCP got fustrated and wrote QDOS. |
Nov 08 17:28 |
| yuhong |
And then IBM tried to license CP/M-86 but failed. |
Nov 08 17:28 |
| yuhong |
IBM turned to MS and MS purchased 86-DOS from SCP. |
Nov 08 17:29 |
| yuhong |
MS renamed it MS-DOS and licensed it to IBM. |
Nov 08 17:29 |
| yuhong |
Notice that MS-DOS was not all that innovative, but it nevertheless won because DR dropped the ball. |
Nov 08 17:30 |
| schestowitz |
DR dropped the ball? |
Nov 08 17:31 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&a… |
Nov 08 17:31 |
| schestowitz |
Or did someone break the law? |
Nov 08 17:31 |
| schestowitz |
And top ethics (and not for the first time)? |
Nov 08 17:31 |
| schestowitz |
/s/top/drop/ |
Nov 08 17:32 |
| yuhong |
DR tried to recover with DR-DOS and then MS broke the law. |
Nov 08 17:32 |
| yuhong |
With things like AARD and FUD. |
Nov 08 17:32 |
| yuhong |
DR had to file an anti-trust lawsuit against MS. |
Nov 08 17:33 |
| yuhong |
And while it is bad that DR dropped the ball back in 1981, that was also bad as well. |
Nov 08 17:34 |
| schestowitz |
Wait |
Nov 08 17:36 |
| schestowitz |
For Microsoft to claim “there were already doomed anyway” is typical revisionism. |
Nov 08 17:36 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft was the inferior product for like… forever. |
Nov 08 17:36 |
| schestowitz |
They also tried the same tricks against Java. |
Nov 08 17:36 |
| schestowitz |
David Boies, lead trial attorney at DOJ, said |
Nov 08 17:37 |
| yuhong |
“Microsoft was the inferior product for like… forever.” |
Nov 08 17:37 |
| yuhong |
And it did not matter back in 1981. |
Nov 08 17:37 |
| schestowitz |
“The core of this trial is consumer choice and the premise is that consumers ought to make that decision, not Microsoft. Microsoft’s argument that says Java would have died anyway is a little bit like saying if somebody shoots you they can defend [themselves] by saying you have cancer.” |
Nov 08 17:37 |
| yuhong |
“For Microsoft to claim “there were already doomed anyway” is typical revisionism.” |
Nov 08 17:38 |
| schestowitz |
I refuse to accept revisionism because it’s Slog-like tactics |
Nov 08 17:38 |
| schestowitz |
See http://boycottnovell.com/wp… |
Nov 08 17:38 |
| yuhong |
Yes DR was doomed, that is why DR created DR-DOS in the first place. |
Nov 08 17:38 |
| schestowitz |
They pretend they already win, they trash the competition with illegal tricks and then claim that the competition failed because it ’sucked’. |
Nov 08 17:38 |
| schestowitz |
They also tried to revise the story about Netscape in this way. |
Nov 08 17:39 |
| schestowitz |
“…Netscape just wasn’t good enough… it killed itself,… etc” |
Nov 08 17:39 |
| schestowitz |
Broland too, although that’s doubted. |
Nov 08 17:39 |
| schestowitz |
*Borland |
Nov 08 17:39 |
| yuhong |
And MS thwarting DR-DOS using anti-competeive tricks is still bad regardless of whether DR dropped the ball in 1981 or not. |
Nov 08 17:39 |
| yuhong |
So it is a bad excuse regardless of whether it is true or not. |
Nov 08 17:40 |
| yuhong |
BTW, on Netscape, remember JSSS? |
Nov 08 17:41 |
| yuhong |
So on DR and MS, whether this claim is “revisionist” or not, it is still a bad excuse. |
Nov 08 17:42 |
| yuhong |
BTW, on Netscape, remember JSSS? |
Nov 08 17:42 |
| yuhong |
CSS won the war and Netscape was forced to hack a CSS-to-JSSS translator for Netscape 4. |
Nov 08 17:43 |
| twitter |
“What is a reliable way to determine if MS is reformed?” They release their code GPL3. Until they do that, Windows is non free and should not be used by anyone. It sucks because M$ can’t do better and often sells out users. |
Nov 08 17:44 |
| yuhong |
I am not going that far. |
Nov 08 17:44 |
| twitter |
You don’t have to. They can go out of business instead. |
Nov 08 17:44 |
| twitter |
Why would anyone use Windows when they could use free software instead? |
Nov 08 17:45 |
| yuhong |
I am not talking about MS going open source, I am talking about their bad tactics. |
Nov 08 17:46 |
| twitter |
They are one and the same. M$ violates your rights to make money. |
Nov 08 17:46 |
| schestowitz |
Mirosoft is not going open source. |
Nov 08 17:46 |
| yuhong |
And don’t have to. |
Nov 08 17:46 |
| twitter |
then they will fail |
Nov 08 17:46 |
| schestowitz |
It’s trying to capture those who did in order to reform them. |
Nov 08 17:46 |
| yuhong |
When I am talking about reform, I am talking about their anti-compeitive and illegal tartics, not going open source. |
Nov 08 17:47 |
| twitter |
There will always be others who will jump in to make money with cheap hardware and free software. M$ can’t bribe the whole world and still make money. |
Nov 08 17:47 |
| yuhong |
“It’s trying to capture those who did in order to reform them.” |
Nov 08 17:48 |
| twitter |
Only free software companies will be able to survive. |
Nov 08 17:48 |
| yuhong |
And they often claim MS is reformed, which is why I asked for a reliable way. |
Nov 08 17:48 |
| MinceR |
i don’t think there’s a single event that will signal that it has happened |
Nov 08 17:49 |
| MinceR |
they’re extremely sneaky and nasty. |
Nov 08 17:49 |
| twitter |
When M$ respects your rights, you can consider them reformed. Trust nothing else. |
Nov 08 17:49 |
| MinceR |
whenever m$ does something it tries to show off as being good, you have to look for the catch. |
Nov 08 17:49 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft got ‘freer’ — it put DRM in Windows. |
Nov 08 17:49 |
| MinceR |
well, crApple did that first |
Nov 08 17:49 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft got ‘freer’ — it threatened Linux with lawsuits last year. |
Nov 08 17:49 |
| twitter |
M$ releasing all of their code GPL is the one and only sign of reform possible. |
Nov 08 17:50 |
| MinceR |
unless they find a way to circumvent GPL |
Nov 08 17:50 |
| MinceR |
for example, by changing copyright law. |
Nov 08 17:50 |
| *_doug (n=configna) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 17:50 |
| schestowitz |
They already do |
Nov 08 17:50 |
| schestowitz |
They also deceive Canadian lawmakers about it. |
Nov 08 17:50 |
| yuhong |
I know, that is why I said reliable. |
Nov 08 17:50 |
| MinceR |
well, they’ve already found a way around GPLv2 |
Nov 08 17:50 |
| schestowitz |
Using patents |
Nov 08 17:50 |
| MinceR |
that’s why we have GPLv3 |
Nov 08 17:51 |
| schestowitz |
The ’soft’ copyrights. |
Nov 08 17:51 |
| twitter |
not likely, the tide is moving against them now. there’s too much money to be made for copyright warriors to survive too |
Nov 08 17:51 |
| MinceR |
and i doubt there will ever be a perfect defense against m$ in the form of a license |
Nov 08 17:51 |
| schestowitz |
Copyrights leaving you out? Invent a new law… software patents… then spread it. |
Nov 08 17:51 |
| schestowitz |
Then find loopholes for filing of swpatens in India and EU. |
Nov 08 17:51 |
| twitter |
Unlicensed white spaces is check mate for traditional broadcasters, publishers and telcos. |
Nov 08 17:51 |
| twitter |
This also helps destroy M$ because they lose their broadcast propaganda advantage. |
Nov 08 17:52 |
| twitter |
Sooner or later, people will understand that freedom is the thing they should be worried about, not “open source” or “reform” |
Nov 08 17:52 |
| MinceR |
btw, i don’t think there’s anything of worth associated by microsoft so the moment they’re willing to reform they might as well start a new company and keep the fact that they’re from microsoft secret |
Nov 08 17:54 |
| *_doug (n=configna) has left #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 17:54 |
| MinceR |
for whom with half a clue does the microsoft brand mean anything positive anyway? |
Nov 08 17:54 |
| yuhong |
And then comes another hard problem. |
Nov 08 17:55 |
| twitter |
no one, the only thing they have is fear, intimidation and confusion. |
Nov 08 17:55 |
| MinceR |
which they’ll have to get rid of if they’re to reform. |
Nov 08 17:55 |
| twitter |
they convince people that non free software is inevitable and eternal when it’s really a fad that passed a long time ago. |
Nov 08 17:56 |
| yuhong |
Thanks, I think that is a good indication. |
Nov 08 17:56 |
| yuhong |
“btw, i don’t think there’s anything of worth associated by microsoft so the moment they’re willing to reform they might as well start a new company and keep the fact that they’re from microsoft secret” |
Nov 08 17:57 |
| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust918.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 17:57 |
| twitter |
The tipping point came when enough people realized that Windows is always going to suck and that free software works better. Windows will vanish soon. |
Nov 08 17:57 |
| yuhong |
And when that fact is revealed, then comes another hard problem similar to this. |
Nov 08 17:57 |
| yuhong |
twitter: I am not going that far. |
Nov 08 17:58 |
| twitter |
Why not? |
Nov 08 17:58 |
| twitter |
You value your own freedom don’t you? |
Nov 08 17:58 |
| twitter |
Is there anyone you would recommend Windows to? |
Nov 08 17:58 |
| yuhong |
Because freedom is only one of the advantages of free software. |
Nov 08 17:58 |
| twitter |
The other advantages to free software don’t make Windows any better. Why not demand they liberate it or boycott it? |
Nov 08 17:59 |
| yuhong |
There are other advantages that MS could duplicate even with non-free software. |
Nov 08 17:59 |
| MinceR |
freedom isn’t just about software though |
Nov 08 17:59 |
| MinceR |
it’s possible to duplicate other advantages |
Nov 08 17:59 |
| MinceR |
however, microsoft is unable to do that |
Nov 08 17:59 |
| twitter |
M$ can’t do anything. Look at the Vista fiasco. |
Nov 08 17:59 |
| twitter |
They are toast. |
Nov 08 18:00 |
| yuhong |
I don’t think Vista is that bad. |
Nov 08 18:00 |
| MinceR |
they’ve shown repeatedly that they’re unwilling to try to compete on grounds of quality |
Nov 08 18:00 |
| yuhong |
And that would need to be fixed. |
Nov 08 18:00 |
| twitter |
Vista |
Nov 08 18:00 |
| twitter |
Vista |
Nov 08 18:00 |
| twitter |
Vista |
Nov 08 18:00 |
| twitter |
fail |
Nov 08 18:00 |
| yuhong |
>I don’t think Vista is that bad. |
Nov 08 18:00 |
| MinceR |
also, if they want to bring out an operating system that doesn’t suck, they’ll have to ditch the windows baggage — but with that goes the compatibility (with software) which is the only thing that’s keeping it alive |
Nov 08 18:00 |
| yuhong |
I don’t think so. |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| MinceR |
(disregarding the dirty deals with OEMs) |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| yuhong |
The NT kernel is a good one. |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| MinceR |
(but those aren’t going to do it in themselves) |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| yuhong |
For example. |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| MinceR |
the NT kernel is a failed monstrosity |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| yuhong |
I don’t think so. |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| twitter |
Some people sleep on nails and say its not so bad. |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| yuhong |
WHy? |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| MinceR |
they’ve started with copying overcomplicated VMS, then made compromises that made the whole idea pointless |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| twitter |
Tell me why anyone should use Vista? |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| yuhong |
I know some of the compromises |
Nov 08 18:01 |
| MinceR |
such as putting the GUI into kernel space. |
Nov 08 18:02 |
| yuhong |
Subsystems for example. |
Nov 08 18:02 |
| MinceR |
(funny thing is, the GUI is still slower than X) |
Nov 08 18:02 |
| MinceR |
(…which runs in userspace) |
Nov 08 18:02 |
| yuhong |
Where did you get this? |
Nov 08 18:02 |
| yuhong |
From? |
Nov 08 18:02 |
| MinceR |
iirc i’ve heard the putting the GUI into kernelspace part at college |
Nov 08 18:02 |
| MinceR |
probably at a thousand other places too |
Nov 08 18:02 |
| twitter |
everyone knows vista sucks and that it’s a failure, even M$ http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855 |
Nov 08 18:03 |
| twitter |
that’s why they are positioning Vista 7 as something wonderful and new. |
Nov 08 18:03 |
| yuhong |
I don’t think it sucks that bad. Do you have actual benchmarks showing the GUI is still slower than X |
Nov 08 18:03 |
| MinceR |
funny how they start to publicly acknowledge how much vista sucks now that they’re trying to sell vista7. |
Nov 08 18:03 |
| MinceR |
which they’ll claim is perfect, until the next version comes — or windows finally dies |
Nov 08 18:04 |
| twitter |
Go read the failure log and tell me that any system does not run faster than that DRM’d dissaster. |
Nov 08 18:04 |
| yuhong |
I don’t think Vista sucks that much. |
Nov 08 18:04 |
| twitter |
why not? |
Nov 08 18:04 |
| twitter |
what about it do you like? |
Nov 08 18:04 |
| yuhong |
I know that it has some problems, but overall it isn’t that bad. |
Nov 08 18:04 |
| yuhong |
UAC is pretty much a clone of sudo, for example. |
Nov 08 18:04 |
| MinceR |
a pretty bad clone of sudo at that |
Nov 08 18:04 |
| yuhong |
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Did_Micr… |
Nov 08 18:05 |
| twitter |
Not even M$ would say that. |
Nov 08 18:05 |
| yuhong |
Yes there are a few differences. |
Nov 08 18:05 |
| MinceR |
a few? |
Nov 08 18:05 |
| yuhong |
Eg. no timer. |
Nov 08 18:05 |
| twitter |
their internal email said they made UAC to be a user annoyance, everyone knows it did not do jack for security. |
Nov 08 18:05 |
| MinceR |
and no asking for password |
Nov 08 18:05 |
| yuhong |
That can be changed using policies or the registry. |
Nov 08 18:05 |
| MinceR |
and UAC doesn’t ask permission to run programs, afaik |
Nov 08 18:05 |
| yuhong |
Yes it does. |
Nov 08 18:06 |
| MinceR |
it asks permission for certain operations |
Nov 08 18:06 |
| twitter |
M$ refuses to set up reasonable user/priv separation because BillG will always be root. |
Nov 08 18:06 |
| schestowitz |
bbl |
Nov 08 18:06 |
| twitter |
later |
Nov 08 18:06 |
| MinceR |
with which go some really ugly details |
Nov 08 18:06 |
| yuhong |
UAC do ask premission to run programs. |
Nov 08 18:06 |
| MinceR |
afaik non-gui programs don’t ask for permission |
Nov 08 18:06 |
| MinceR |
there was a hack to get around UAC exploiting that |
Nov 08 18:06 |
| *_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 18:07 |
| yuhong |
The timer is not needed, just start the program from an elevated command shell. |
Nov 08 18:07 |
| MinceR |
if it only needed permission to run programs, it wouldn’t keep asking for permission so often |
Nov 08 18:07 |
| MinceR |
doing away with the timer means losing an important security element |
Nov 08 18:08 |
| MinceR |
as does doing away with the password prompt |
Nov 08 18:08 |
| MinceR |
an unattended login on vista means anyone can do anything as admin on that machine. |
Nov 08 18:08 |
| yuhong |
I am going to dig up a Google Group thread on this. |
Nov 08 18:09 |
| yuhong |
http://groups.google.com/group/micros… |
Nov 08 18:09 |
| MinceR |
and when is google going to respect web standards so that stupid webapp will actually work in a browser of my choice? |
Nov 08 18:11 |
| yuhong |
BTW, http://blogs.msdn.com/uac/archive… |
Nov 08 18:11 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (“The purpose of IRC is to…IDLE…”) |
Nov 08 18:11 |
| MinceR |
non-default settings will help the average user little |
Nov 08 18:12 |
| yuhong |
Unfortunately not. |
Nov 08 18:12 |
| yuhong |
Each time the UAC prompt pops up, it is still fundementally starting a program, which is the same as sudo. |
Nov 08 18:13 |
| yuhong |
Only that the program does it. |
Nov 08 18:13 |
| yuhong |
In fact, Vista Home editions do not have the Group Policy editor. |
Nov 08 18:14 |
| yuhong |
So how often a sudo or UAC prompt pops up depends on the program doing it. |
Nov 08 18:15 |
| yuhong |
And that is true with both UAC and sudo |
Nov 08 18:15 |
| *_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has left #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 18:15 |
| MinceR |
http://developers.slashdot.org… |
Nov 08 18:15 |
| MinceR |
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/mai… |
Nov 08 18:16 |
| yuhong |
On iReboot, that is possible even with sudo. |
Nov 08 18:16 |
| yuhong |
That I mean the methods. |
Nov 08 18:17 |
| MinceR |
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/2008… |
Nov 08 18:17 |
| yuhong |
I am not going to go that far. |
Nov 08 18:17 |
| MinceR |
UAC is especially bad when combined with ingrained coding practices used on windows |
Nov 08 18:18 |
| MinceR |
(mainly, expecting that you’re running as admin at all time) |
Nov 08 18:18 |
| yuhong |
And the fustrateing things about this one is that non-admin have existed since NT 3.1, which was before Win95. |
Nov 08 18:19 |
| yuhong |
Anyway, the NT kernel isn’t that bad. |
Nov 08 18:20 |
| MinceR |
yes it is |
Nov 08 18:20 |
| MinceR |
it runs lots of things in kernel space that shouldn’t run there, for alleged performance reasons |
Nov 08 18:20 |
| MinceR |
yet the whole thing is slower than many systems that do these things properly. |
Nov 08 18:20 |
| *_doug (n=configna) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 18:21 |
| yuhong |
MinceR: Where is the benchmarks that show this? |
Nov 08 18:21 |
| *_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has left #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 18:21 |
| MinceR |
the difference on my old desktop was so great i didn’t need a benchmark |
Nov 08 18:21 |
| MinceR |
but feel free to search. |
Nov 08 18:22 |
| yuhong |
BTW, a failed microkernel was the Mach, which was too slow. |
Nov 08 18:22 |
| MinceR |
who’s talking about failed microkernels? |
Nov 08 18:22 |
| MinceR |
protip: the NT kernel is not a microkernel |
Nov 08 18:22 |
| MinceR |
exactly in the way the OSX kernel isn’t a microkernel. |
Nov 08 18:23 |
| yuhong |
Yep. |
Nov 08 18:23 |
| MinceR |
as for Mach, it hasn’t failed, just the product founded on it (HURD) is incomplete |
Nov 08 18:23 |
| MinceR |
the performance penalty of running a microkernel has delayed their spread for a long time. |
Nov 08 18:23 |
| yuhong |
Yep. |
Nov 08 18:23 |
| yuhong |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_kernel |
Nov 08 18:25 |
| yuhong |
A newer microkernel is L4. |
Nov 08 18:26 |
| MinceR |
i know about both. |
Nov 08 18:26 |
| yuhong |
On IPC overhead, how about comparing the IPC overhead on Mach with NT? |
Nov 08 18:27 |
| MinceR |
desperately trying to find a way NT gets a chance? |
Nov 08 18:28 |
| MinceR |
193040 < MinceR> the performance penalty of running a microkernel has delayed their spread for a long time. |
Nov 08 18:28 |
| MinceR |
192948 < MinceR> protip: the NT kernel is not a microkernel |
Nov 08 18:28 |
| yuhong |
Because I see some parallels between the failure of Mach and the moving of the window manager to the NT kernel. |
Nov 08 18:29 |
| yuhong |
And I think it is IPC that led to both. |
Nov 08 18:29 |
| twitter |
These things don’t matter. Even if Vista was not a buggy, bloated POS, or if it had all the features of free software, it still lacks freedom. |
Nov 08 18:30 |
| MinceR |
what you fail to see is that computers are much faster today than were back then. |
Nov 08 18:30 |
| twitter |
Users can’t record TV shows, share with their neighbors or do other things that computers are supposed to do. |
Nov 08 18:30 |
| MinceR |
and that security and reliability are considered more important than ever. |
Nov 08 18:30 |
| yuhong |
True, Freedom is one real advantage of Linux. |
Nov 08 18:31 |
| twitter |
if M$ provides their users with freedom, they will be reformed and any technical prowess they have will be useful. |
Nov 08 18:31 |
| twitter |
Great speed and efficiency is useless if you can’t do things you want. |
Nov 08 18:32 |
| macabe |
They have no technical prowess |
Nov 08 18:32 |
| macabe |
Sorry, couldn’t help it |
Nov 08 18:32 |
| twitter |
no need to b sorry, you are right. |
Nov 08 18:33 |
| twitter |
free software also has efficiency and feature advantages now. |
Nov 08 18:33 |
| macabe |
When people argue technical tidbits of ms over foss, I always think they’re missing the forest for the trees. |
Nov 08 18:34 |
| yuhong |
twitter: Sure, open sourcing Windows would certainly help. |
Nov 08 18:34 |
| yuhong |
But even reforming the tartics is better than nothing. |
Nov 08 18:35 |
| twitter |
the technical tidbits used to be significant and kept users from being able to do what they wanted. |
Nov 08 18:35 |
| twitter |
M$ kept that situation going by hardware and vendor manipulation, but the game is over now. |
Nov 08 18:35 |
| macabe |
The one overall argument that ms can’t even begin to come close to is freedom of choice. |
Nov 08 18:36 |
| MinceR |
open sourcing windows could yield a better WINE. |
Nov 08 18:36 |
| yuhong |
As well as a better Windows. |
Nov 08 18:36 |
| MinceR |
a better windows is one that has been uninstalled. |
Nov 08 18:36 |
| yuhong |
I am not going that far. |
Nov 08 18:37 |
| twitter |
Windows is already “Open Source” in that you can pay to see the source, but it’s not free. |
Nov 08 18:37 |
| MinceR |
that’s not open |
Nov 08 18:37 |
| yuhong |
No it isn’t. |
Nov 08 18:37 |
| MinceR |
you can pay to see any source, even if it means buying the company in some cases. |
Nov 08 18:37 |
| twitter |
Because you can’t compile the whole thing yourself, you have to just trust them that what you see is what you are using. |
Nov 08 18:37 |
| twitter |
Because you can’t modify and share your improvements, Windows will not improve. |
Nov 08 18:38 |
| yuhong |
twitter: I would not go that far. |
Nov 08 18:38 |
| twitter |
Why not? |
Nov 08 18:38 |
| twitter |
M$ is so busy pushing digital restrictions, that Vista is not as good as XP was and XP was not so great. |
Nov 08 18:39 |
| yuhong |
But you are right about trust. |
Nov 08 18:39 |
| twitter |
gotta go for a while. |
Nov 08 18:42 |
| *yuhong has quit (“ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]“) |
Nov 08 18:48 |
| *yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-71-188-245-175.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 19:12 |
| yuhong |
BTW, I wonder what if IBM chose CP/M-86 instead of MS-DOS? |
Nov 08 19:12 |
| yuhong |
Or if IBM chose the 68000 instead of the 8086? |
Nov 08 19:12 |
| MinceR |
then the it industry hadn’t suffered the blow m$ dealt it |
Nov 08 19:12 |
| MinceR |
we’d be about 10 years ahead of where we are now |
Nov 08 19:13 |
| MinceR |
dunno about the 68000 |
Nov 08 19:13 |
| MinceR |
i guess the difference betwen the 68000 and 8086 isn’t that significant |
Nov 08 19:13 |
| yuhong |
Don’t forget that MS-DOS won not because it was better. |
Nov 08 19:14 |
| yuhong |
It was because DR dropped the ball. |
Nov 08 19:14 |
| MinceR |
i know |
Nov 08 19:14 |
| MinceR |
it was won because IBM didn’t want CP/M-86 badly enough |
Nov 08 19:14 |
| MinceR |
and because DR didn’t want to sell it hard enough. |
Nov 08 19:15 |
| yuhong |
I know. |
Nov 08 19:15 |
| MinceR |
also because IBM were as lame as ever |
Nov 08 19:15 |
| MinceR |
they could have gotten away with giving m$ much less control |
Nov 08 19:15 |
| MinceR |
if only they cared |
Nov 08 19:15 |
| yuhong |
There were a lot that was lame about the original IBM PC. |
Nov 08 19:16 |
| MinceR |
then we would have a chance of engineers making important technical decisions in the IT world instead of having failed lawyers make them. |
Nov 08 19:16 |
| yuhong |
Another example is, what if Steve Jobs was not ousted from Apple back in 1985? |
Nov 08 19:21 |
| yuhong |
Then another mess could have been bypassed. |
Nov 08 19:21 |
| MinceR |
then we’d have a more powerful little microsoft |
Nov 08 19:21 |
| MinceR |
though they wouldn’t have their stolen bsd code ready |
Nov 08 19:22 |
| MinceR |
and stolen mach code |
Nov 08 19:22 |
| yuhong |
“stolen”? |
Nov 08 19:22 |
| MinceR |
well, what did they give the community back? |
Nov 08 19:23 |
| yuhong |
Nothing, but this don’t change the fact that it was allowed under the license. |
Nov 08 19:23 |
| MinceR |
are we any better with them selling the hackjobs they’re selling? |
Nov 08 19:23 |
| MinceR |
something being legal and something being moral/ethical are two different things. |
Nov 08 19:23 |
| MinceR |
(or three) |
Nov 08 19:24 |
| yuhong |
Apple and open source is another mess altogether. |
Nov 08 19:24 |
| yuhong |
It has a long history dating back to 1990 |
Nov 08 19:24 |
| MinceR |
so it was in 1990 that apple realized they can’t code an OS worth a damn? |
Nov 08 19:24 |
| yuhong |
No unfortunately. |
Nov 08 19:25 |
| yuhong |
I was thinking that it would be technically better if Apple acquired NeXT back in 1993 instead of 1997. |
Nov 08 19:25 |
| yuhong |
A lot of the backlash could have been avoided. |
Nov 08 19:26 |
| MinceR |
i don’t know. i think we’d be better off without apple at all. |
Nov 08 19:26 |
| yuhong |
I am not going to go that far |
Nov 08 19:26 |
| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 19:26 |
| MinceR |
just like failed lawyers, marketers can’t make proper technical decisions either. |
Nov 08 19:26 |
| yuhong |
Unfortunately, they only realized that they can’t code an OS worth a damn in 1996, when copland failed. |
Nov 08 19:27 |
| MinceR |
the land of the cops! |
Nov 08 19:27 |
| yuhong |
By then, NeXT had already ported their OS to x86 and Apple had already moved on to PowerPC. |
Nov 08 19:29 |
| yuhong |
In contrast, both Apple and NeXT back in 1993 used the 68k series of processors. |
Nov 08 19:29 |
| yuhong |
There were a lot of backlash when Apple abandoned the x86 version of Rhapsody back in 1999. |
Nov 08 19:34 |
| yuhong |
And when Apple abandoned cloning back in 1997. |
Nov 08 19:34 |
| yuhong |
Back in 1993, Mac clones did not exist in the first place. |
Nov 08 19:34 |
| yuhong |
And NeXT was a hardware company, so they did not port to x86 yet. |
Nov 08 19:35 |
| yuhong |
Get it? |
Nov 08 19:35 |
| MinceR |
i fail to see the significance of this |
Nov 08 19:38 |
| MinceR |
other than that reusing NeXT code would have been easier back then |
Nov 08 19:38 |
| MinceR |
(but why does that even matter? all they do is steal an OS, mutilate it horribly and put an ugly useless toy GUI on top of it) |
Nov 08 19:39 |
| yuhong |
” mutilate it horribly and put an ugly useless toy GUI on top of it” |
Nov 08 19:42 |
| yuhong |
I don’t believe that is a problem of Mac OS X. |
Nov 08 19:43 |
| yuhong |
I don’t believe that claim |
Nov 08 19:43 |
| MinceR |
well, that’s your problem |
Nov 08 19:43 |
| yuhong |
I don’t think Mac OS X is that terrable |
Nov 08 19:44 |
| *yuhong has quit (“ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]“) |
Nov 08 19:45 |
| MinceR |
wow, such insightful arguments there. :> |
Nov 08 19:46 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
Nov 08 19:49 |
| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 19:52 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
Nov 08 20:10 |
| *libervisco has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
Nov 08 20:15 |
| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 20:21 |
| schestowitz |
twitter: it’s not just about sharing with neighbours; think about real rights like watching a film or listening to audio on a device /of your choice/. |
Nov 08 20:38 |
| schestowitz |
MELVIN G. CALIMAG, the man who Microsoft bribed with a free trip, is still trashing Linux in the press: http://www.mb.com.ph/I… |
Nov 08 20:58 |
| trmanco |
http://www.webappers.com/2008/11/… |
Nov 08 21:08 |
| schestowitz |
Pointer to < http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/10/31/thi… > |
Nov 08 21:09 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
Nov 08 21:10 |
| schestowitz |
I didn’t realise that “Canonical” is making money. it’s losing money. I’m not sure about Alfresco, either. |
Nov 08 21:10 |
| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 21:10 |
| trmanco |
yes Canonical might be losing some big bucks |
Nov 08 21:13 |
| trmanco |
The only revenue they get is from there support I think |
Nov 08 21:13 |
| schestowitz |
F* |
Nov 08 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
We made /. |
Nov 08 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
I don’t know where yet |
Nov 08 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
*LOL* Found it. http://mobile.slashdot.org/ar… |
Nov 08 21:14 |
| PetoKraus |
schestowitz: lol |
Nov 08 21:16 |
| PetoKraus |
i’ve got modpoints. again |
Nov 08 21:16 |
| PetoKraus |
two weeks in a row |
Nov 08 21:16 |
| PetoKraus |
it’s weird |
Nov 08 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
I see they attack the messenger again. |
Nov 08 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
People do this to me in Digg as well (last spotted today), using libel. |
Nov 08 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
PetoKraus: The mob mentality prevails in both Slashdot and Digg. it’s good that Slashdot’s editors can see past the noise.I disapprove his sock-puppetry, but I’ve seen evidence of ugly and coordinated (ad hominem) abuse against him. Absolutely disgusting! |
Nov 08 21:20 |
| schestowitz |
This is disconcerting. ”White House rushing to enact dozens of new rules” < http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_10860919 >. http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-d… “Bush is planning a parting attack on the U.S. by eliminating regulations designed to protect consumers and the environment.” |
Nov 08 21:33 |
| schestowitz |
So if McCain cannot get elected, they loot the public < http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfr… > and also ruin the law to permit monopolists to run rampant. |
Nov 08 21:34 |
| schestowitz |
RMS also says: http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-dec…. |
Nov 08 21:36 |
| schestowitz |
“Ignorance (real or pretended) and cupidity are the maxims of the Republican party.” |
Nov 08 21:36 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/opinion/0… “While Americans eagerly vote for the next president, here’s a sobering reminder: As of Tuesday, George W. Bush still has 77 days left in the White House — and he’s not wasting a minute.” |
Nov 08 21:37 |
| *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@88.210.102.58.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 21:37 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (“The purpose of IRC is to…IDLE…”) |
Nov 08 21:38 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/11/05/info… “Microsoft’s best success at selling Windows currently does involve recycling the now seven year old XP into an OS it can sell on devices such as the netbook. That product category hasn’t yet taken off, but it does appear that Microsoft has been able to successfully kill Linux on the low end mini-laptops through its bundling agreement |
Nov 08 21:42 |
| schestowitz |
muscle with PC OEMs.” |
Nov 08 21:42 |
| *Tallken has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
Nov 08 21:48 |
| schestowitz |
Jack Loftus moved from covering Linux to gaming… EA Dumps Casual Division < http://www.pcworld.com/article/1535… > |
Nov 08 22:05 |
| schestowitz |
I’ve just pinged him |
Nov 08 22:06 |
| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Nov 08 22:21 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.blogomonster.com/bl… “If this single statement is analysed then it means there will be growth in mutual business relationships between India and USA. If such is the statement of Obama where he is considering India amongst one of economy partners, then an imagination of grey days for outsourcing sector of India is not sustainable.” |
Nov 08 23:03 |
| *trmanco has quit (“I just hit the close button ”) |
Nov 08 23:04 |
| schestowitz |
Google made radical changes to Google Groups search. It now includes peripheral sites, even COLA mirrors. Very interesting. |
Nov 08 23:27 |
| MinceR |
a radical change i’d like to see from google is starting to conform with web standards |
Nov 08 23:27 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, that too. It has been years since I complained about it publicly. They don’t give a damn and they also prioritise Windows and IE. |
Nov 08 23:31 |
| MinceR |
dunno about IE, but they don’t care about Opera. |
Nov 08 23:39 |
| schestowitz |
Opera Software should ‘pull a Bork Bork Bork’ on google.com then.  |
Nov 08 23:44 |
| MinceR |
google should die in a fire. |
Nov 08 23:47 |
| schestowitz |
Which company should not then? You also strongly oppose Apple. Are you suggesting a new mode for commerce? |
Nov 08 23:50 |
| MinceR |
there are plenty of more honest companies out there |
Nov 08 23:57 |
| MinceR |
what google does is harming the competition between web browsers. |
Nov 08 23:58 |
| schestowitz |
RMS argues along the lines of: “It’s fine making money as long you make it in ethical ways and respect people’s freedoms.” |
Nov 08 23:58 |
| MinceR |
(and then i haven’t even mentioned what they’re doing against the privacy of their users and how they’re helping dictatorships like china oppress their people) |
Nov 08 23:58 |
| schestowitz |
Google puts its value before others’ |
Nov 08 23:58 |
| schestowitz |
MinceR: yes, that too. Someone who I don’t know mailed me some hours ago. It’s about a legal complaint about Microsoft’s Hotmail… privacy and abuse. He wants me to publicise it. |
Nov 08 23:59 |
