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11.22.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 21st, 2008 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:27 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

GNOME Gedit

Enter the IRC channel now

twitter No one has anyplace they can afford to go. Nov 21 14:11
twitter ”  the motorist group AAA is expecting a decline in Thanksgiving travel this year for the first time since 2002, when Americans were still reeling from the previous year’s terrorist attacks. ” http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/21/news/econ… Nov 21 14:12
twitter bbl Nov 21 14:13
schestowitz This is sad. Nov 21 14:14
schestowitz Layoffs coming to oil companies too (except the big bosses). Nov 21 14:14
Eruaran I’m glad Aaron hates popup dialogues Nov 21 14:16
Eruaran :) Nov 21 14:16
Eruaran I’m the same Nov 21 14:16
Eruaran I much prefer things going into the new and improved systray or something like a “devices recently plugged in” thing that only appears in the corner of your screen and doesn’t get in the way Nov 21 14:17
schestowitz Mandriva has them. I hate them so much that I force myself to dismiss there. Nov 21 14:18
schestowitz _doug says a lot of stuff about popups Nov 21 14:18
schestowitz He’s a CLI man Nov 21 14:18
Eruaran Ubuntu’s pop up balloons are becoming more and more like Windows… that is, annoying. Nov 21 14:18
*kentma (n=user@host86-161-71-25.range86-161.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell Nov 21 14:18
Eruaran And the one I hate the most Nov 21 14:18
Eruaran the one that tells the user they have to reboot… reboot ! Nov 21 14:19
schestowitz Win32 users might anticipate popups though and find it “confusing” without obtrusive UIs Nov 21 14:19
_doug Yea, two bash screens and I get more work done in ten minutes than half an hour on Windows Nov 21 14:19
kentma _doug: best thing most people could learn would be to touch-type.  saves hours more than any gui does. Nov 21 14:19
Eruaran Install a new graphics driver on Ubuntu and it tells the user they have to reboot Nov 21 14:19
_doug Nag megs, I hate them, do you want to etc … it breaks your concentration … Nov 21 14:19
Eruaran My response to that golden little balloon is, “STFU, ctrl+alt+backspace” Nov 21 14:20
_doug NO NO NO, I do not want to ‘upgrade’, clean up the desktop, view my phishing settings or any of the half dozen msgs that keep popping up … Nov 21 14:20
_doug http://www.dilbert.com/ Nov 21 14:21
schestowitz No RSS Nov 21 14:24
schestowitz Oops. My bad. http://www.dilbert.com/rss/ Nov 21 14:24
_doug Gartner Report Exaggerates Open Source IP Concerns Nov 21 14:25
_doug http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/… Nov 21 14:25
schestowitz They don’t do auto-discovery in the <head>ers Nov 21 14:25
schestowitz _doug: they do what they get paid for. Nov 21 14:25
schestowitz Statge the obvious, add FUD Nov 21 14:25
schestowitz Microsoft’s operating system is used on most (85%) of the desktop, but companies that use it need more lawyers (esp. with Vista around) Nov 21 14:26
schestowitz US warned of Microsoft WIndows < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/… > Nov 21 14:28
schestowitz Dell sees quarterly profits slip < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/… > Nov 21 14:28
schestowitz Haha. http://mafiaa.org/ “Music And Film Industry Association of America™ (MAFIAA™)” Nov 21 14:40
trmanco http://awesome.naquadah.org/ Nov 21 14:44
schestowitz Awesome. Is there new? Nov 21 14:45
schestowitz *s Nov 21 14:45
twitter hi Nov 21 14:47
MinceR lol naquadah Nov 21 14:49
twitter Now, sees the *s.  Was looking for anything new in Awesome.  Citibank if up for sale. Nov 21 14:50
Eruaran “nice coffee holding panda !” – Dilbert Nov 21 14:50
schestowitz For sale? Nov 21 14:51
schestowitz They are Microsoft-polluted Nov 21 14:51
schestowitz Maybe they can merge with Microsoft… start a banking industry for the age of financial desserts Nov 21 14:52
trmanco http://marc.info/?l=linux-kerne… Nov 21 14:53
schestowitz <gregkh () suse ! de> Nov 21 14:56
schestowitz Is Greg German? ;-) Nov 21 14:56
twitter Banks were a big M$ Partner…. their failure is bad for the M$ bottom line.  Sweaty B personally begged Congress to bail the banks out.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo… Nov 21 14:58
twitter Their failure are already going to cost M$ billions.  http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=… Nov 21 14:59
twitter there will be more of that. Nov 21 14:59
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/… Nov 21 15:00
schestowitz I like the comment there. “Until then, you can kindly kiss my browser stamp.” Nov 21 15:00
trmanco http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/… Nov 21 15:01
schestowitz “jwilcox154″ Who’s *that*? Nov 21 15:01
schestowitz Not the Joe Wilcox from Microsoft Watch trolling… or *is* it? Nov 21 15:02
twitter the slashdot user? Nov 21 15:02
schestowitz Yes Nov 21 15:02
twitter some kind of troll, I think. Nov 21 15:02
schestowitz I try to identify your ‘buddies’ Nov 21 15:02
schestowitz Microsoft assigns buddies to people who write about MS Nov 21 15:02
twitter it’s just another nym.  They have hundreds if not thousands there. Nov 21 15:02
schestowitz Why would the person chase down people’s journals? Nov 21 15:03
twitter harassment mostly Nov 21 15:03
schestowitz “This must be the effect of ‘buddies’ from Microsoft. Mary Jo Foley once told me that they exist and that they get ‘assigned’ to people in order to influence them (or try to moderate them, so to speak).” http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09… Nov 21 15:04
twitter It’s all part of “Mind control” Nov 21 15:04
schestowitz For the watchlist: http://slashdot.org/~jwilcox154 Nov 21 15:04
schestowitz http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?si… Nov 21 15:05
schestowitz Wow. Obsession with posters. That’s never too healthy Nov 21 15:05
schestowitz Do they come to /. for news or for specific people? Nov 21 15:05
*_doug has quit () Nov 21 15:05
twitter I have not taken the time to run that user down. Nov 21 15:06
schestowitz Bl00dy heck, Look at this account.. Nov 21 15:06
schestowitz http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=89… Nov 21 15:06
schestowitz http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=98… Nov 21 15:06
schestowitz http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid… Nov 21 15:06
schestowitz Does that user do ANYTHING else than attacking you? Nov 21 15:06
twitter there’s a group of people who spend their time harassing twitter and they are not afraid of making one or two accounts that do nothing but that. Nov 21 15:07
schestowitz I had similar people in Digg. Other people voluntarily pointed out in public that they stalk my account (personal attacks, libel and modding). Nov 21 15:07
schestowitz You should report these account to Rob Malda or whatever. Nov 21 15:07
schestowitz Pressure them to start handling Slashdot. Tell them they’ll use their better users if they don’t take action… they already lose tons of business… watch LNUX Nov 21 15:08
schestowitz What sane person would make it a hobby to just harass people? Nov 21 15:08
twitter I imagine they are paid to do that. Nov 21 15:09
schestowitz I mean, there are some journos I don’t like, but I’m not wasting my life stalking and discrediting them.. Nov 21 15:09
twitter I’ve documented some of it in the troll zoo.  When I say someone is a twitter attack bot, I mean it. Nov 21 15:09
schestowitz LaeMedia, W-E… they need to have some serious bust-down one day. Nov 21 15:09
twitter Yes, it is a waste of their lives. Nov 21 15:10
schestowitz I reported ACT to the FTC, but that’s small peanuts compared to the corruption that flushes down the whole economy ATM. Nov 21 15:10
schestowitz They just busted Mark Cuban for possible fraud. Nov 21 15:10
schestowitz Microsoft execs do the same crimes… the SEC is usually indifferent to such ‘small’ crimes (read: white-collar crime). It’s all about shoplifters and so-called ‘pirates’ Nov 21 15:11
twitter I’m not sure how to report the abuse to Rob but I’m sure they are aware of it. Nov 21 15:11
twitter Bruce Perens got the same treatment and so did Miguel. Nov 21 15:12
Eruaran I think trolls have to be paid to do it… they Nov 21 15:13
schestowitz Well, they still put you in FP routinely. Nov 21 15:13
Eruaran they’d have to be microsofties doing their astroturfing Nov 21 15:13
Eruaran I mean, I know Windows users Nov 21 15:13
schestowitz The trolls try to  make other /.er not listen to you, mod you down (out of sight) and pressure editors to bin you. Nov 21 15:13
Eruaran And most of them wouldn’t know Slashdot from a pokadot Nov 21 15:13
twitter Yes. Nov 21 15:13
schestowitz If you make FP they must attack the  editor, as in “next time you promote him you’re in trouble” Nov 21 15:14
schestowitz It’s a very typical type of gagging. Nov 21 15:14
twitter Yes Nov 21 15:14
schestowitz Lessig gets that too.. from the MAFIAA type Nov 21 15:14
schestowitz They try to toss him out and keep him out of congress Nov 21 15:14
schestowitz Eruaran: no, they get hired by agencies. Nov 21 15:14
schestowitz Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz From<: jmur…@shell.portal.com (John – Murphy) Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 18:49:10 GMT Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz Local: Sun, Mar 20 1994 6:49 pm Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz Subject: Newspaper exposes “Steve Barkto” as MS agent Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz Sunday, March 20, the San Jose Mercury News published a front page article on the agent provocatour, alias, Steve Barkto.  The article quotes William Zachmann as saying he tracked down Mr. “Barkto” on his Compuserve forum, after this new member made disparaging remarks about IBM, and in particular, OS/2. Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz Mr. “Barkto” is not a major customer of IBM, but an employee or agent of Microsoft.  The account which this mole used, was paid for by the good old folks at MS. Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz I wrote an letter to Congressman Norm Mineta (D-San Jose) asking that the U.S. Dept. of Justice look into unfair trade practices of MS.  In particular, the relationship between computer system manufactures, and MS. Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz I wonder how many messages we get on this USENET and others, that originate from the corporate headquarters of Microsoft? Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz John Murphy Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz Commerical Brokers Insurance Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz San Jose, CA Nov 21 15:15
twitter Astroturf, they try to convince editors that everyone loves M$ and that people like me drive readers off.  They then try to make that true, all the while they do their usual crapfloods and other disruptions that really do drive people off. Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz For ref: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2…. Nov 21 15:15
schestowitz That’s what modpoints are for. Nov 21 15:16
schestowitz And metamoderation Nov 21 15:16
twitter They have gamed all of that Nov 21 15:16
schestowitz But who moderates metamoderation? Nov 21 15:16
schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archi… Nov 21 15:17
twitter It’s been ages since I bothered with metamods.  It was time consuming and pointless. Nov 21 15:17
twitter The botnet operators always won. Nov 21 15:18
schestowitz Almost half of the comments in BN recently qualify as anti-messenger/trolling. Nov 21 15:18
schestowitz It’s not good. Nov 21 15:18
twitter More smear.  I’m used to everything I say getting that. Nov 21 15:18
twitter Someone at M$ really hates me.  That’s fine, they suck. Nov 21 15:19
schestowitz The lurkers need to speak up and defend the site. Nov 21 15:19
schestowitz I got E-mails about it. People don’t read the comment cause it’s just heckling. Nov 21 15:19
schestowitz BTW, in the past 10 hours BN got over 10000 pageviews. No major links for that… Nov 21 15:20
twitter It’s been that way for years.  People in the BRLUG gave up on comments a long time ago. Nov 21 15:20
twitter Lately, it’s been worse. Nov 21 15:20
schestowitz I think the trolls just look for a podium where they can cause the most disruption and spread negative messages to an audience that they target (Novell critics in this case) Nov 21 15:20
twitter M$ “Mind control”  If they can’t control the discussion, they seek to destroy it. Nov 21 15:21
schestowitz “Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input.  Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them.  Thus, you control mindshare!” Nov 21 15:21
twitter For all the attack, it’s amazing that Slashdot manages to cover the news as well as they do. Nov 21 15:21
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/wp-conten… :Microsoft, internal document Nov 21 15:21
twitter Thanks for the reference. Nov 21 15:22
schestowitz twitter: news? Nov 21 15:22
schestowitz Like SIlver Lie? Nov 21 15:22
schestowitz I stopped reading /. cause it was /bad/ Nov 21 15:22
twitter I have not looked much.  Too much navel gazing here.  ha ha Nov 21 15:22
schestowitz For science it’s OK. When it comes to tech, they pick up bair and shills like Jeff Gould Nov 21 15:23
MinceR Jeff Goa’uld Nov 21 15:23
twitter I never gave up on Slashdot and still use it as a platform to record and organize my thoughts.  M$ really hates that. Nov 21 15:23
twitter Slashdot is still a powerful tool for research. Nov 21 15:24
twitter bb in a minute. Nov 21 15:24
schestowitz Microsoft is trying to dodge the crime lawsuit that unseals many damaging docs: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft… Nov 21 15:30
schestowitz “Documents turned over in the case show Microsoft executives opposing a decision to lower the standards for the Vista Capable designation, with former Windows chief Jim Allchin saying in one e-mail that he believed the Vista Capable program would mislead consumers.” Nov 21 15:30
schestowitz http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Who_will_be_Mi… “Microsoft acknowledged today that it has hired a key Yahoo search technology executive, Sean Suchter, to work on its Live Search engine, confirming reports by Valleywag and AllThingsD. But the Redmond company still has a key position to fill in its online division, and it has been taking quite a while to fill it.” Nov 21 15:31
neighborlee ok, thats weird ;) Nov 21 15:37
neighborlee talk about your aveage conflict of interest LOL Nov 21 15:37
neighborlee but hey  I guess if they got the money he has the time LOL Nov 21 15:37
neighborlee still weird Nov 21 15:38
schestowitz Did you see the comments? Nov 21 15:38
trmanco Open letter to the Ministry of Education: Translated: http://translate.google.com/trans… | Original: http://conversasdobruno.blogs.sa… Nov 21 15:56
schestowitz Can you translate this into English that’s not automated? I’d put it in BN FP. Nov 21 15:58
schestowitz It applies well to other countries too Nov 21 15:58
twitter Oh yes, I did look up that willcox154 troll once.  He seems to be a genuine, if minor PR person when you do a google search.  Of course, it’s easy for M$ to create such people or for trolls to mis-attribute their dirty work to innocent people. Nov 21 16:01
trmanco schestowitz, yes, I can review the automated version and correct it Nov 21 16:01
schestowitz Thanks. Nov 21 16:01
schestowitz I’ll link to other posts about Portugal Nov 21 16:01
schestowitz Later we can build an index Nov 21 16:01
trmanco :) Nov 21 16:02
twitter More interesting than trolls.  http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16… Nov 21 16:16
schestowitz That “confirmed” bit irked me too. I see the comments agree. Nov 21 16:21
schestowitz “CONFIRMED:” What is this, Digg? Or it it nuclear physics? Nov 21 16:21
twitter it was an experimental, or calculation, confirmation of theory.  or at least I thought so.  do they have a paper some place normal people can read it? Nov 21 16:23
twitter here’s an ugly little troll nym http://slashdot.org/~dedazo/journal/217779 Nov 21 16:24
neighborlee they dont have a clue yet about our universe Nov 21 16:27
neighborlee except to say its made up mostly of dark energy and dark matter, none of which they can prove , or know anything about what it actually does IF it exists LOL..but such things are believed to be so , welll cause its the status quo that says so of course ;) Nov 21 16:28
schestowitz neighborlee: Nov 21 16:29
schestowitz Can you find the page where dirthex talks about using Mono or programming in it? Nov 21 16:30
schestowitz Was it somone esle I remember from Ubuntu Forums? Nov 21 16:30
neighborlee schestowitz, well im pretty sure I found it somewhere  , when he posted about programming..or helping someone with programming something.. Nov 21 16:31
neighborlee ill try to find it Nov 21 16:31
schestowitz Thanks. Nov 21 16:31
twitter Hmm, I see that the trolls have a new tag, “twittertroll” that they have applied to all of my submissions. Nov 21 16:37
twitter Nice. Nov 21 16:37
*PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell Nov 21 16:40
schestowitz it’s a sign of omnipotence. Nov 21 16:43
schestowitz I still think you should give up the multiple nyms. They use it against yiu. Nov 21 16:43
schestowitz BN in CIO Magazine: http://www.cio.com.au/article/2678… Nov 21 16:45
trmanco http://www.winehq.org/?announce=1.1.9 Nov 21 16:45
schestowitz Ta Nov 21 16:45
schestowitz I don’t drink Wine. Nov 21 16:45
PetoKraus i wonder when will MS move to 64bit platform Nov 21 16:46
neighborlee LOL I found something funny though regardless as its more deception, but it was caught nicely by robert here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepor… Nov 21 16:47
trmanco I don’t either, but it is nice to know that a Foss project when running some Windows apps has more performance then on its native platform Nov 21 16:48
PetoKraus I drink red wine Nov 21 16:48
PetoKraus Shiraz, Merlot. Nov 21 16:48
neighborlee ditto Nov 21 16:48
neighborlee not merlot, but red wine :) Nov 21 16:48
PetoKraus prefferably australian Shiraz. Nov 21 16:48
PetoKraus neighborlee: californian wines are good as well ;) Nov 21 16:49
twitter eh, stick to appalation controle Nov 21 16:49
schestowitz I get dizzy reading this headline: http://www.cio.in/news/viewArti… ( MS, Novell Toast Anniversary with Tools, Support Coupons ) Nov 21 16:50
schestowitz Toasting with patent royalties. Nov 21 16:51
schestowitz Pop the wine and the champagne… let’s celebrate racketeering. Nov 21 16:51
PetoKraus who the hell is Jo Shields? Nov 21 16:51
PetoKraus kick it out of debian, FFS Nov 21 16:51
schestowitz PetoKraus: someone that helps Novell, whether knowingly or not. Nov 21 16:52
schestowitz PetoKraus: I’m trying. Nov 21 16:52
schestowitz They have ‘guards’ Nov 21 16:52
PetoKraus you have my full support Nov 21 16:52
schestowitz All kinds of Mono fans beset in projects that are important to FOSS. They protest Nov 21 16:52
schestowitz The same goes for Novell/Microsoft’s fork of OOo Nov 21 16:52
PetoKraus (if it doesn’t mean anything now, i can assure you, i’ll try my best, so it’ll mean something in 20 years :P) Nov 21 16:52
schestowitz Ah! turncoats. Nov 21 16:53
MinceR now even debian has Mono munchkins? Nov 21 16:53
PetoKraus i mean Nov 21 16:53
PetoKraus why the HELL is MONO in GNewSense?!? Nov 21 16:53
PetoKraus by default Nov 21 16:53
schestowitz MinceR: Jo Shields is intervening there too. Nov 21 16:53
schestowitz Not munchkins, but people who push C# Nov 21 16:53
neighborlee redhat/fedora is one of the few resisting mono nicely..so of course theywant to get their customers, to make them moot and destroy one remaining holdout ;) Nov 21 16:53
schestowitz neighborlee: here’s a scoop Nov 21 16:54
neighborlee PetoKraus, good question ;) Nov 21 16:54
MinceR PetoKraus: lol Nov 21 16:54
schestowitz Someone who is in Fedora told me that Red hat is watching the Mono saga closely. Nov 21 16:54
MinceR better ask the gnewsense guys about that. Nov 21 16:54
schestowitz Among other things. Nov 21 16:54
schestowitz They also added armament to their legal team recently. Nov 21 16:54
PetoKraus i was deeply shocked about that when i tried it out in vbox Nov 21 16:54
schestowitz There’s evidence to show machines from Red Hat going beyond just reading pages about Mono. Nov 21 16:54
twitter ” Toasting with patent royalties.”  They might make nice coasters or toilet paper.  It would be a shame to waste the paper. Nov 21 16:55
neighborlee I still find out if dvd has mono or not..I  might have to burn it yet just to find out ;( Nov 21 16:55
schestowitz It bothers me when Novell and Microsoft are described like a married couple: “Touting the second anniversary of their contentious partnership, Microsoft and Novell on Tuesday announced that they are all set to launch the beta version of Moonlight, a Firefox supported service that lets Silverlight content to run on Linux PCs.” Nov 21 16:55
neighborlee twitter, lol Nov 21 16:55
PetoKraus “I don’t see how possible but unclaimed patents would make moonlight in Debian more dangerous than any software such as wine, linux, samba, OOo,ntfs-3g, etc.” Nov 21 16:55
PetoKraus is she fucking serious??!? Nov 21 16:55
schestowitz Should we make cake too? Nov 21 16:55
schestowitz http://security.itproportal.com/articles/… Nov 21 16:56
neighborlee PetoKraus, faik its a he..jo(joseph) as this persons website claims.. Nov 21 16:56
twitter Has anyone actually seen one of these “coupons”? Nov 21 16:56
PetoKraus i don’t believe “it” Nov 21 16:56
schestowitz twitter: there’s SCO toilet paper Nov 21 16:56
schestowitz I don’t know if it’s being sold though. Nov 21 16:56
twitter delisted. Nov 21 16:56
schestowitz Pink toilet papes Nov 21 16:57
PetoKraus “[member of Debian Mono Group]“ Nov 21 16:57
PetoKraus WTF Nov 21 16:57
schestowitz Pink slip. Wipe with it… Nov 21 16:57
PetoKraus godness Nov 21 16:58
PetoKraus the moment people drop few-tonne huge fridge from space station on earth just because it stinks Nov 21 16:59
PetoKraus it’s time to think about the sanity of population as a whole Nov 21 16:59
schestowitz URL? Nov 21 17:00
PetoKraus i dunno, though it was trashes everywhere awhile ago Nov 21 17:00
schestowitz Doesn’t it dissolve in the atmosphere or something? Nov 21 17:00
PetoKraus http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07… Nov 21 17:00
schestowitz Haha Nov 21 17:00
schestowitz Meh. No picture. Nov 21 17:01
schestowitz http://blog.nola.com/checkitout/2008/… Nov 21 17:01
PetoKraus it was actually only half a tonne. Nov 21 17:02
PetoKraus 1:5000 chance Nov 21 17:03
PetoKraus that’s not that unprobable Nov 21 17:03
twitter Ugh, now I see the /. Silverblight advert. Nov 21 17:04
PetoKraus “OOXML is a superb standard and yet, it has been FUDed so badly by its competitors that serious people believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with it.” Nov 21 17:05
PetoKraus bloody freaking hell Nov 21 17:05
PetoKraus in next sentence: Nov 21 17:05
PetoKraus “Besides, it is always better to have two implementations and then standardize than trying to standardize a single implementation. “ Nov 21 17:06
PetoKraus does he even know what he said second ago?! Nov 21 17:06
neighborlee well if it doesn’t support his bottom line, then while he admits its not a good standard, and was pushed through BY M$, that he must support it…its all very transparent ;) Nov 21 17:12
neighborlee his/her , whatever Nov 21 17:12
PetoKraus it’s Miguel Nov 21 17:13
neighborlee whom has stated , if however kinda moot based on his actions, that mono was a ‘bad’ idea that he tried to stop. o_0 Nov 21 17:14
neighborlee hmm but yeah I thought youy meant the JO comment on the website as similar things have been said there too Nov 21 17:15
neighborlee In order to install F-Spot and Tomboy, considered the best choices in their class by the Desktop team, installed by default. < see this is what they are all hoping for..the ‘best’ apps bar none,  while its clear RMS says if they are ‘that’ important,,rewrite them in something else..I think that says alot ;) Nov 21 17:16
neighborlee from here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showt… Nov 21 17:16
*mib_06b5gt (i=5496d783@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6ddf917b21ce6ab5) has joined #boycottnovell Nov 21 17:18
twitter Here’s something interesting http://db.tidbits.com/article/9869  too bad it’s non free http://etherpad.com/ep/about/tos  is there a free software implementation of this? Nov 21 17:18
trmanco schestowitz, done Nov 21 17:22
trmanco want me to send it by email? Nov 21 17:22
schestowitz http://www.techworld.com.au/blog/talkingtech… “Web sites sprung up calling for Novell boycotts, developers ran and cried to Google (Note to all those who think Google manages people’s information more transparently than Microsoft or Novell: go and take a very cold shower)” Nov 21 17:22
schestowitz What’s with him? Nov 21 17:23
schestowitz Gedda is defending Novell’s deeds? Blech. Good to know.. Nov 21 17:23
schestowitz trmanco: yes, please Nov 21 17:23
trmanco ok Nov 21 17:23
twitter Bashing google too.  Shame. Nov 21 17:25
schestowitz So many hecklers in BN right now. *sigh* Nov 21 17:32
twitter Analysts sell out, it’s their business model.  http://www.businessweek.com/ap/f… Nov 21 17:32
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twitter BW, begging people to buy M$FT Nov 21 17:32
schestowitz “Oppenheimer & Co.” Nov 21 17:32
schestowitz Maybe he’s pumping it. Nov 21 17:33
schestowitz He and his firm bought some MSFT and they need to drive up the stock Nov 21 17:33
schestowitz Wall Street is a casino for people who pretend to have a clue. Nov 21 17:33
twitter All casinos are for people who don’t understand math. Nov 21 17:33
schestowitz My dad told me years ago that analysts do just guesswork and prettify it with some reasoning. When wrong, hide under rock. When correct, tout. Nov 21 17:34
trmanco schestowitz, check your inbox Nov 21 17:34
trmanco :P Nov 21 17:34
twitter There’s an old boiler room scam that does this.  They phone people with guesses, half one way, half the other.  As time goes by the pool diminishes until they have a few dozen suckers who think they have predicted 9 or 10 things correctly. Nov 21 17:36
twitter Of course, no stocks are actually purchased.  The scammer takes the money and runs. Nov 21 17:37
twitter M$ likes to take advantage of a well known gambler’s fallacy, where the gambler thinks the next OS has to be a winner because the last one was such a loser. Nov 21 17:38
*PetoKraus has quit (“Leaving”) Nov 21 17:38
twitter lunch time Nov 21 17:38
schestowitz twitter: it’s a pyramid scheme Nov 21 17:42
schestowitz Banks make the most money (commission) Nov 21 17:42
schestowitz That’s just like a casino. There’s no free/lunch money Nov 21 17:42
schestowitz Either you lose personally or at a national level (debt), which means you’ll pay later through tax Nov 21 17:42
neighborlee okay I just asked in #fedora if mono is stilll on dvd and why if so Nov 21 17:45
*neighborlee holds breath , hoping not to be labeled a heretic LOL Nov 21 17:45
neighborlee <ivazquez> Like I told you last time, it doesn’t fit. < I have no idea WHO this person is at #fedora, but ths is what is claimed as why mono isn’t on livecd..if true ( why then was it on fedora 7/8?) then I suuppose it IS on dfeault install of dvd Nov 21 17:49
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neighborlee makes little sense its space issues..if moonlight is deemed unsafe for fedora I dont seee how mono could be deemed ‘safe’  ;)).. Nov 21 17:53
neighborlee plus it all goes back to the whole ‘how was mono ever introduced to fedora in the first place’ arguement Nov 21 17:54
neighborlee im now asking someone I know to be on qualiity assurance team..people at redhat.. Nov 21 17:54
neighborlee ohhhhhhh no you dont Nov 21 17:56
neighborlee ohhhhhhh not so fast Nov 21 17:56
neighborlee posting one sec Nov 21 17:57
schestowitz Did you post URLs there? Nov 21 18:00
neighborlee we avoided mono for a while because of legal/patent concerns, so there aren’t so many mono developers in Fedora Nov 21 18:01
neighborlee no in channels if thats what yur askig Nov 21 18:01
neighborlee ing Nov 21 18:01
neighborlee whatever ‘for a while’ means ;( Nov 21 18:01
neighborlee joss@debian.org clearly does not want mono in the core at all: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugr… < in case you didn’t know..so at least debian remains a holdout..I just wish installing debian core and getting a reasonable desktop wasn’t so arduous Nov 21 18:11
neighborlee * tomboy: very nice app, but controversial since it brings the Nov 21 18:12
neighborlee > >         full Mono stack, so we don’t make it part of Nov 21 18:12
neighborlee > >         gnome-desktop-environment. Nov 21 18:12
neighborlee <posted 6/3/08 Nov 21 18:12
neighborlee I should try latest lenny installer I guess o_0 Nov 21 18:12
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/… Nov 21 18:15
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neighborlee nice find, thx. Nov 21 18:23
schestowitz Jo and his buddies are very active now. Nov 21 18:23
schestowitz Mostly here, like a group of Monoyenas: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/2… Nov 21 18:24
neighborlee lol Nov 21 18:24
schestowitz Microsoft is still having the shillnalysts write brochureports. Nov 21 18:32
schestowitz Marketing material composed by analysts? No way!! Nov 21 18:32
neighborlee yeah ic what your mean.,..the mono hounds is busy aint they ;))lol Nov 21 18:32
neighborlee they dismissed groklaw as irrelevant,,how classy :) Nov 21 18:32
neighborlee dismiss what does not support your view and that which you cant not argue against ..classy ;) Nov 21 18:33
neighborlee and apparnatly that which debian, the core of linux for many, does not want anythign to do with..debian must be in cahoots with all of us ? ;)./..classy ;) Nov 21 18:34
neighborlee ok wait..debian wont accept mono, yet mark does…is there anythign wrong with this picture ? Nov 21 18:34
neighborlee o_0 Nov 21 18:34
neighborlee I cant wait to see what their replies are to your latest posts ;) Nov 21 18:36
schestowitz Groklaw? Nov 21 18:39
schestowitz Or SFLC? Nov 21 18:39
schestowitz In Moonlights’s case it was merely brought to GL. Nov 21 18:40
schestowitz Mark doesn’t understand this. Nov 21 18:40
schestowitz PJ said so too. Nov 21 18:40
schestowitz He doesn’t know that trolls can be borrowed patents too. Nov 21 18:40
schestowitz neighborlee: they don’t reply to that latest post. Nov 21 18:41
neighborlee I realize it was brought there, but it was commented there as well by someone highly knowledgeabley ( if not a lawyer) in legal matters/wording Nov 21 18:41
schestowitz If there’s no weakness, they keep quiet. They love nitpicking and throwing accusations, asking for apology/correction to make /me/ seem like the bad guy and them as the victim. Nov 21 18:41
neighborlee I meant groklaw yes Nov 21 18:42
neighborlee who is PJ sorry I missed that one :) Nov 21 18:42
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schestowitz The editor of the site Nov 21 18:44
neighborlee ah ok gotcha, thx indeed Nov 21 18:45
neighborlee I wondered yup Nov 21 18:45
schestowitz I can’t understand why they defend Novell… AlexH especially…and Dan.. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/18/… Nov 21 18:46
neighborlee http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono < maybe we dont quote this oftenenough..I wonder if seth still feels this way?? Nov 21 18:47
schestowitz They said they’d not comment (Alex I think… not that anyone suggested it), but he just can’t help bursting. Nov 21 18:47
schestowitz neighborlee: you tried contacting him, right? Nov 21 18:47
neighborlee I read this LONG ago, but found it on another thread where I had missed it before: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthre… < by arito. Nov 21 18:47
neighborlee I did Nov 21 18:47
neighborlee no reply Nov 21 18:47
neighborlee unless it went to spam and I missed it o_0 Nov 21 18:48
neighborlee I shall resend Nov 21 18:48
neighborlee sent Nov 21 18:49
neighborlee LOL Nov 21 18:54
neighborlee In my opinion .Net is only good to catch .Fish. >< from  viduliya at: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthre… < worth a laugh..laughter matters ;) Nov 21 18:55
schestowitz Suing Over Being Called A Douchebag Might Just Get More People To Think You’re A Douchebag < http://techdirt.com/articles/… > Nov 21 18:56
schestowitz Hmmm…. my password for Ubuntu Forums doesn’t work. Oh, well… Nov 21 18:56
neighborlee :( Nov 21 18:57
neighborlee LOL Nov 21 18:57
neighborlee about douchebag comment ;)) Nov 21 18:57
schestowitz Something’s weird Nov 21 18:59
schestowitz Many people read BN today and I don’t know why. Nov 21 18:59
schestowitz Maybe some mailing list message or something.. Nov 21 18:59
neighborlee http://www.microsoft.com/inte… < and this is what he noted in defense of his ‘things you didn’t know were covered by M$ paTENTS Nov 21 19:02
neighborlee schestowitz, good news..more innocent people need to know about this mono m ess , as ubuntu rises in popularity ,so its more mandatory everyone is aware of risks associated and who feels what and why Nov 21 19:03
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schestowitz http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/200… Nov 21 19:10
neighborlee and btw..even the debian developer is ‘fine’ with : Btw, an independent analisys of that covenant is available: Nov 21 19:10
neighborlee   http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?… Nov 21 19:10
neighborlee so much for the groklaw arguement ;) Nov 21 19:10
schestowitz Buy patents for sudo make me a sandwich?/ Nov 21 19:10
schestowitz USPTO should be sent to exile. Nov 21 19:10
neighborlee lol Nov 21 19:10
schestowitz Such a disgrace Nov 21 19:10
schestowitz What’s next? Patents on wiping one’s arse? Nov 21 19:11
neighborlee haaa Nov 21 19:11
neighborlee well thats just crap ;) Nov 21 19:11
schestowitz Yes, it stinks Nov 21 19:12
schestowitz “The PDF document holds a single paged scan of an internally distributed mail from German telecommunications company T-Systems (Deutsche Telekom), revealing over two dozen secret IP address ranges in use by the German intelligence service Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND). Independent evidence shows that the claim is almost certainly true and the document itself has been verified by a demand letter from T-systems to Wikileaks.” Nov 21 19:24
schestowitz http://wikileaks.org/wiki/German_Secret_Intellig…) ( German Secret Intelligence Service (BND) T-Systems network assignments, 13 Nov 2008 ) Nov 21 19:24
schestowitz DNS INFORMATION (as responding): Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz Host www2-1.bvoe.de (195.243.248.226) Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz Host www2-2.bvoe.de (195.243.248.228) Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz Host www1-1.bvoe.de (62.156.187.234) Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz Host www1-2.bvoe.de (62.156.187.236) Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz Host mail.prosozial.de (62.159.60.150) Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz WHOIS INFORMATION: Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz inetnum:      193.159.228.32 – 193.159.228.39 Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz netname:      BVOENET12 Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz descr:        TSI fuer LVP Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz inetnum:      193.159.238.168 – 193.159.238.175 Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz netname:      BVOENET21 Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz descr:        TSI fuer LVP Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz And so on… Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz Secret services IPs. Nice. via http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008… Nov 21 19:25
schestowitz Someone should write a script that scans one’s log for all of these addresses and highlights visits to one’s site from the ‘secret services’ Nov 21 19:28
schestowitz I think Paul Thurrott  is taking the piss: http://windowsitpro.com/mobile/pda/Article…. “Roy Schestowitz, who runs a cute little Web site called Boycott Novell..” What does he mean by “cute little”? Nov 21 19:30
MinceR he’s trying to disparage it but has no arguments or facts Nov 21 19:32
schestowitz Pentagon Hit by Unprecedented Cyber Attack < http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/11… > Nov 21 19:33
schestowitz They saw it all coming. They considered bombing (literally) botmasters instead of addressing the issue: Windows being easy pickings. Nov 21 19:34
trmanco lol Nov 21 19:35
trmanco a 2.6 MB .XLS spreadsheet converts into a 803 KB .ODS spreadsheet Nov 21 19:36
trmanco lovely Nov 21 19:36
schestowitz Typical Nov 21 19:37
schestowitz XLS has some forensic antifeatures Nov 21 19:37
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neighborlee twitter, good going about getting him to explain tireless devotion, and his unwillingness to do so  but on ‘neutral ground’ LOL Nov 21 19:41
neighborlee that says it all ;) Nov 21 19:41
neighborlee oh , and now he is cussing…sh**,,typical stuff from mono supporters , when they have nothing left. Nov 21 19:42
neighborlee classy. Nov 21 19:42
neighborlee credibility , lost. Nov 21 19:44
schestowitz Jo made a disclosure. Nov 21 19:47
schestowitz Be sure to read it Nov 21 19:47
neighborlee hm Nov 21 19:48
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neighborlee schestowitz, not much of one ;) Nov 21 19:50
neighborlee schestowitz, and I dont give it much thought based on his willingness to use colorful adject ives so easily..lost c redibility  especiallly in light of the now seen debia devlopers view of this whole mono encumbered mess ;) Nov 21 19:50
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PetoKraus bloody …. whatever Nov 21 20:33
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MinceR http://news.slashdot.org/article…. Nov 21 21:07
PetoKraus whee Nov 21 21:07
schestowitz Whenever I see a /. URL here, it’s bad news, but this is good, except……. Nov 21 21:09
schestowitz “Without prejudice. Lovely SCO touch. If a creditors committee is suddenly formed, SCO is ready. Why now? I’m only guessing but probably they are tying off loose ends, because their time to file a reorganization plan is almost up. And despite investors being “so excited about the business prospects of working with SCO” that Stephen Norris mentioned at SCO’s Tec Forum, so far nothing in writing to file with the court, so it does beg Nov 21 21:09
schestowitz in to look like the clock may run out first. What a surprise. “ Nov 21 21:09
schestowitz From http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?st… (earlier) Nov 21 21:10
MinceR also, they said that they have to pay much less than they got from m$ Nov 21 21:11
MinceR still, m$ is bleeding money Nov 21 21:11
PetoKraus well, as one /.ter said, this is just the tip Nov 21 21:14
PetoKraus http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10… Nov 21 21:14
MinceR BK? Nov 21 21:20
trmanco cool -> http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/21/portugal… Nov 21 21:22
schestowitz It was written well. Nov 21 21:23
schestowitz I don’t think I changed anything. Nov 21 21:23
trmanco ok Nov 21 21:23
trmanco god to know Nov 21 21:23
trmanco good* Nov 21 21:23
trmanco we both went trough it a couple of times Nov 21 21:24
trmanco http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ostatic/~3/BQK… Nov 21 21:33
schestowitz They link to junk ‘stats’ Nov 21 21:43
schestowitz Worthless data Nov 21 21:43
trmanco what do you mean Nov 21 21:43
schestowitz Wow! Look. They have charts. It must be true… not. Nov 21 21:44
schestowitz They use advertising garbage as raw data for these graphs. Nov 21 21:44
trmanco oh that Nov 21 21:44
schestowitz See http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07… Nov 21 21:45
PetoKraus MinceR: i think it means bankrupt Nov 21 21:47
schestowitz me 2 Nov 21 22:05
MinceR ic Nov 21 22:05
neighborlee boy, really going after poor twitter aren’t they ;) Nov 21 22:06
neighborlee twitter, your infamous now ;)( Nov 21 22:06
neighborlee I care..I dont care how many accounts you  may have, its the quality of what you say that matters, that is all. Nov 21 22:06
schestowitz They witch-hunt him. Very desperate of them… Nov 21 22:07
neighborlee and now roy is a dictator..although all he and some of us have tried to do is show that things aren’t as some may seem to indicate, and we usually do it without   colorful adjecrives (sh** types), because foss and its users deserve to know about such things..if we’re so bad , they must also include seth@gnome.org for his lunacy in finding all of this a nightmare,,and they must also pesecute RMS for his views, and apparantly debian Nov 21 22:09
neighborlee develoers who see right past all of this as welll ;) Nov 21 22:09
neighborlee btw I did sent seth a email,,ill let you know if he replies. Nov 21 22:10
schestowitz Cool, thank you. Nov 21 22:16
neighborlee im asking on #foresight, why mono is there..so far well, not geting very far :) Nov 21 22:33
MinceR foresight sucks Nov 21 22:34
MinceR because it uses conary, which sucks Nov 21 22:34
schestowitz Foresight is very heavy on the Momo side Nov 21 22:37
schestowitz Always been that way Nov 21 22:37
schestowitz Sabayon is another hard one. Nov 21 22:37
PetoKraus sabayon is umm Nov 21 22:38
PetoKraus ummm! Nov 21 22:38
MinceR gentoo for lamers? :> Nov 21 22:39
PetoKraus nah Nov 21 22:39
PetoKraus linux for …. Nov 21 22:39
PetoKraus i’m not swearing today Nov 21 22:39
PetoKraus gentoo is like minefield Nov 21 22:40
PetoKraus yesterday I was talking with my friend about their e2fstools messup Nov 21 22:40
PetoKraus that was a funny one :) Nov 21 22:40
PetoKraus basically, e2fstools was depending on com_err and ss in stable… then they stabilized next version of e2fstools, which needed e2fstools-utils, which conflicted with com_err and ss Nov 21 22:42
PetoKraus which is alright, if only they did check depencencies Nov 21 22:42
PetoKraus they didn’t update kerberos dependencies, that means, for users with kerberos useflag enabled kerberos didn’t work Nov 21 22:42
PetoKraus that means openssl didn’t work Nov 21 22:42
PetoKraus that means wget didn’t work Nov 21 22:42
PetoKraus that means there was no way portage could fetch new sources … Nov 21 22:43
PetoKraus boom. Nov 21 22:43
schestowitz Cheers! Nov 21 22:44
PetoKraus funny thing was, unstable wasn’t touched by this at all Nov 21 22:44
neighborlee while http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10535-0.html?forumID=1&a… < got them to agree something is amiss with novel,,my #foresight conversation was VERY civil, and not once did it descend into colorful adjectives on any level Nov 21 22:45
neighborlee I asked not just for h ere, but for a good friend consdiering foresight..friends matter alot to me ;) Nov 21 22:45
neighborlee we didnt agree,,but it always remained professinal discource,,right on ! Nov 21 22:46
neighborlee :) Nov 21 22:46
schestowitz Ha! Well, imagine someone asks you to take off a limb one day Nov 21 22:47
schestowitz Mono information is well overdue. Nov 21 22:47
neighborlee :) Nov 21 22:47
neighborlee bbl , tiny amoutn of work to do..oh the labor of it all <grins> Nov 21 22:48
*ZiggyFish1 has quit (Remote closed the connection) Nov 21 22:50
trmanco http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Mi0Bw75GI Nov 21 23:09
schestowitz “This video or group may contain content that is inappropriate for some users, as flagged by YouTube’s user community.” Nov 21 23:23
schestowitz What is this, NSFW? Nov 21 23:23
schestowitz It looks like that man called “Zune Nov 21 23:24
schestowitz What a crap film Nov 21 23:24
MinceR gn Nov 21 23:26
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