11.24.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 23rd, 2008 - Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:20 am by Roy Schestowitz

PetoKraus	i don’t really seee a start button there	Nov 23 19:19
PetoKraus	or this one: http://en.wikipedia.or…	Nov 23 19:20
seller_	Look	Nov 23 19:20
seller_	Linux people do not create a API	Nov 23 19:20
trmanco	Kernel vulnerability found in Vista: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10106173-83…	Nov 23 19:20
seller_	Every linux distro should in theory create a API like windows	Nov 23 19:21
trmanco	A flaw in Vista’s networking has been found that can crash the system, but no fix is expected until the next service pack	Nov 23 19:21
PetoKraus	trmanco: nice	Nov 23 19:21
PetoKraus	seller_: well, yes, we can agree, yes	Nov 23 19:21
PetoKraus	that’s what’s freedesktop.org for	Nov 23 19:21
seller_	where all the apps install without damage the API	Nov 23 19:21
trmanco	I forgot the quotes on my last sentence	Nov 23 19:21
PetoKraus	that’s for example why E17 doesn’t have tray support	Nov 23 19:21
PetoKraus	the specification is poor an unimplementable	Nov 23 19:22
PetoKraus	*and	Nov 23 19:22
seller_	But the distros permits the apps remove the api	Nov 23 19:22
seller_	The same way like PC-BSD	Nov 23 19:22
PetoKraus	well	Nov 23 19:23
seller_	API should not changed because of ANY application	Nov 23 19:23
seller_	but the linux people permits	Nov 23 19:23
neighborlee	too bad their installer is so awkward ( pcbsd) ( partitioning anyway)	Nov 23 19:23
seller_	I can install some app , but the app insists to install a new verision of X	Nov 23 19:23
seller_	THIS IS WRONG!	Nov 23 19:24
seller_	X is a part of API and never can be altered without prior authorization of distro developers	Nov 23 19:24
PetoKraus	evolving api’s is signature of FOSS project	Nov 23 19:24
PetoKraus	that’s why you have versioning…	Nov 23 19:24
PetoKraus	even .NET is not compatible troughout versions	Nov 23 19:25
PetoKraus	so i don’t really understand what are you talking about	Nov 23 19:25
seller_	The apps should not to update or change the api	Nov 23 19:26
seller_	API only can changed with user permission	Nov 23 19:26
PetoKraus	i don’t think you understand what’s an api	Nov 23 19:26
seller_	Because API changes modify the System completely	Nov 23 19:26
seller_	API is a set of System software (X, kernel, coreutils and glibc for example)	Nov 23 19:27
PetoKraus	not really	Nov 23 19:28
PetoKraus	“A set of functions that can be called from an application program to access features of another program.”	Nov 23 19:28
seller_	I know about this concept	Nov 23 19:29
seller_	But What I’m saying is	Nov 23 19:29
PetoKraus	that api’s should be consistent?	Nov 23 19:29
PetoKraus	well, doh, yes, they should… but it’s hard to do it, when most packages are moving target	Nov 23 19:30
seller_	Every distro developer should mantains a set of Software	Nov 23 19:30
seller_	and this set can not modified because of some app	Nov 23 19:30
PetoKraus	well, in proper distributions it’s not	Nov 23 19:30
PetoKraus	such as debian stable	Nov 23 19:30
seller_	Debian stable	Nov 23 19:31
PetoKraus	which results in archaic packages….	Nov 23 19:31
seller_	does not use A api	Nov 23 19:31
PetoKraus	alright, stop this faggotry	Nov 23 19:31
seller_	Every app which the user install can modify the kernel and other packages	Nov 23 19:31
PetoKraus	i am not the right person to educate people in software development	Nov 23 19:31
PetoKraus	seller_: are you using ubuntu?	Nov 23 19:31
seller_	No, at moment I’m using the windowz and Mibbit	Nov 23 19:32
seller_	But in my machine I’m using Kubuntu 8.10	Nov 23 19:32
PetoKraus	i wanted to meet some of the people responsible for brainstorm’s quality	Nov 23 19:32
PetoKraus	i guess I just found one	Nov 23 19:32
PetoKraus	it’s almost like “remove grub delay - make user press f8 like on windows!!!”	Nov 23 19:33
seller_	But look Peter I’m not a troll	Nov 23 19:33
PetoKraus	well, i still doubt it	Nov 23 19:34
PetoKraus	you should consider your career in trolling	Nov 23 19:34
PetoKraus	seriously, you’d be good at it	Nov 23 19:34
seller_	Why	Nov 23 19:34
seller_	But look	Nov 23 19:34
seller_	To conquer Stupid people which uses windowz	Nov 23 19:35
seller_	we must try to simulate windowz and crApple mac os	Nov 23 19:35
seller_	Did you understand my API approach?	Nov 23 19:36
PetoKraus	1) mac os is almost perfect OS in terms of stability, usability etc. The moment they opensource it, I am moving. 2) The point is, after a year I realised i shouldn’t be an evangelist. I know stallman is right, I know there are people, who don’t see why I am not using opera just because it’s closed source.	Nov 23 19:36
seller_	But did you understand my API Approach?	Nov 23 19:37
PetoKraus	3) you don’t need to conquer. that kind of nullifies the principle of choice	Nov 23 19:37
seller_	yes we need	Nov 23 19:37
seller_	of course	Nov 23 19:37
PetoKraus	since you obviously don’t know what’s an API, no. sorry.	Nov 23 19:37
seller_	not forcing people	Nov 23 19:37
seller_	but forcing us to forcing people	Nov 23 19:38
seller_	Look , my idea is not the same concept of “Application programming interface”	Nov 23 19:38
PetoKraus	well, then don’t redefine the language, please.	Nov 23 19:38
seller_	my idea is about to maintain “sealed packages”	Nov 23 19:38
PetoKraus	such as debian stable?	Nov 23 19:39
seller_	these sealed packages should not be changed because of apps	Nov 23 19:39
seller_	no	Nov 23 19:39
seller_	debian stable	Nov 23 19:39
seller_	does not use this idea	Nov 23 19:39
PetoKraus	how	Nov 23 19:39
seller_	Debian permits to change every package used	Nov 23 19:39
PetoKraus	it’s packages are thoroughly consistent. The chance something breaks when you isntall it from their repo is almost 0%	Nov 23 19:40
PetoKraus	well obviously… it’s free software	Nov 23 19:40
*PetoKraus np: Pink Floyd - Careful With That Axe, Eugene (Ummagumma - Live Album)		Nov 23 19:40
seller_	Ever the user installs a simple package , the system can download a lot of	Nov 23 19:40
seller_	dependencies and removes a lot of packages	Nov 23 19:40
PetoKraus	and?	Nov 23 19:41
seller_	The app CANNOT change any “sealed packages”	Nov 23 19:41
PetoKraus	why, if it conflicts….	Nov 23 19:41
PetoKraus	what would you want it to do?	Nov 23 19:42
seller_	Multislot	Nov 23 19:42
seller_	Install the two versions of same package	Nov 23 19:42
seller_	for example	Nov 23 19:42
seller_	read	Nov 23 19:42
PetoKraus	well, that doesn’t happen on debian stable	Nov 23 19:42
seller_	beranger about linux mint	Nov 23 19:42
PetoKraus	since all packages are built againist the same thing	Nov 23 19:42
seller_	Beranger is very angry because linux mint does not have a repo to reverse the changes caused by apps	Nov 23 19:43
PetoKraus	you could use gentoo, where you have multislot, only for the packages that require it	Nov 23 19:43
PetoKraus	well, but Beranger is not your average user	Nov 23 19:44
seller_	But gentoo uses a lot of Command line and does not have a Hardware Manager	Nov 23 19:44
PetoKraus	aha	Nov 23 19:44
PetoKraus	well, tough luck	Nov 23 19:44
PetoKraus	linux is definitely not for you then.	Nov 23 19:44
seller_	I Like Linux and other free OSes	Nov 23 19:44
seller_	Look , if Linux mint	Nov 23 19:44
seller_	block the system packages	Nov 23 19:45
seller_	the app can change the “sealed (or blocked packges)”	Nov 23 19:45
seller_	but Linux Mint permits	Nov 23 19:45
seller_	and then ,Linux Mint Lost all configuration	Nov 23 19:45
seller_	For example	Nov 23 19:46
seller_	I will create my distro	Nov 23 19:46
seller_	Lunarix	Nov 23 19:46
seller_	And I will “seal” kde, X,coreutils,linux ,X ,Mesa,	Nov 23 19:47
seller_	And then no app will try to install a new version or remove these sealed packeges	Nov 23 19:47
seller_	The app can add or deleted but my system will be always the same	Nov 23 19:47
PetoKraus	which brings me again to the point of debian stable	Nov 23 19:48
PetoKraus	which EXACTLY does that	Nov 23 19:48
seller_	I cannot say this about ubuntu where the user removes mono and lost everthing	Nov 23 19:48
seller_	True ? Debian	Nov 23 19:49
seller_	Tell me the sealed packages of Debian	Nov 23 19:49
PetoKraus	well you are not able to install anything which will force upgrade of your packages	Nov 23 19:49
PetoKraus	since it’s not in the repo	Nov 23 19:49
PetoKraus	everything is build againist the same toolchain in one release…	Nov 23 19:50
PetoKraus	and obviously, if you try to uninstall core package, the system would cease to work, but duh, why would you do that in the first place	Nov 23 19:50
seller_	Please ,tell me the list of sealed packages	Nov 23 19:51
PetoKraus	http://packages.debian.or…	Nov 23 19:52
PetoKraus	that’s your discrete environment	Nov 23 19:52
PetoKraus	you can’t install anything newer, anything older, since it’s not in the repo	Nov 23 19:52
seller_	This is wrong	Nov 23 19:52
PetoKraus	you are guaranteed, that the packages in the repo will not require update of other packages	Nov 23 19:52
seller_	You do not understand	Nov 23 19:52
PetoKraus	if you are asking me to show you the list of packages you can’t delete from the system	Nov 23 19:53
seller_	For example ,The debian people uses only one cd	Nov 23 19:53
PetoKraus	there is not such a thing. There are few people with warnings…	Nov 23 19:53
PetoKraus	and you are able to delete anything even on your Windows XP	Nov 23 19:53
PetoKraus	and it’ll break your system in both cases	Nov 23 19:53
PetoKraus	but that’s not the problem of developers…	Nov 23 19:54
PetoKraus	PEBKAC.	Nov 23 19:54
seller_	I can remove VLC ,and Azureus and does happen nothing to windows	Nov 23 19:55
seller_	Because in Windows ,there are a separation in what is of “windows” (sealed)	Nov 23 19:55
seller_	and what is not of part of windows	Nov 23 19:55
PetoKraus	well you can delete your system32 folder from big part	Nov 23 19:56
seller_	Every app installed in windowz ,will not remove shell32	Nov 23 19:56
seller_	And every app will not update the shell32	Nov 23 19:56
PetoKraus	well, no app on debian stable will remove gcc…	Nov 23 19:56
trmanco	can anybody post some links of news showing that MS is holding back IPv6?	Nov 23 19:56
PetoKraus	trmanco: isn’t vista enough?	Nov 23 19:56
trmanco	just need some proof	Nov 23 19:57
seller_	But It’ can try to update	Nov 23 19:57
trmanco	of news saying that windows is really holdin it back	Nov 23 19:57
seller_	If app needs a new version of gcc ,the app must install a version in another slot	Nov 23 19:57
PetoKraus	http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/060707-micr…	Nov 23 19:58
PetoKraus	seller_: well, gentoo?	Nov 23 19:58
seller_	Gentoo ,tries to update some apps too	Nov 23 19:58
trmanco	PetoKraus, thanks	Nov 23 19:58
trmanco	got anymore?	Nov 23 19:58
PetoKraus	trmanco: looking around in google	Nov 23 19:58
trmanco	okok	Nov 23 19:59
trmanco	I am too \| new.google.com	Nov 23 19:59
trmanco	news*	Nov 23 19:59
seller_	Tries to update kernel, glibc ,and cause API break	Nov 23 19:59
PetoKraus	seller_: not really	Nov 23 19:59
PetoKraus	and if it does, you just run revdep-rebuild which checks your linking and you’re set.	Nov 23 20:00
PetoKraus	trmanco: http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles_tutorial…	Nov 23 20:00
PetoKraus	the 4th paragraph	Nov 23 20:00
trmanco	found this	Nov 23 20:00
trmanco	http://groups.google.com/group/alt.winsock….	Nov 23 20:00
seller_	No ,this is not the same	Nov 23 20:01
seller_	Packages is very stupid model of installation	Nov 23 20:01
trmanco	PetoKraus, thanks	Nov 23 20:01
trmanco	got enough info	Nov 23 20:01
PetoKraus	seller_: why?	Nov 23 20:01
seller_	Because	Nov 23 20:02
seller_	Package is a stupid name for software	Nov 23 20:02
seller_	and	Nov 23 20:02
seller_	is very minimal unit of software	Nov 23 20:02
PetoKraus	sorry?	Nov 23 20:03
seller_	It’s the same of a simple DLL	Nov 23 20:03
seller_	What a DLL means for the user?	Nov 23 20:03
seller_	Yes , nothin	Nov 23 20:03
PetoKraus	i’d say, problems	Nov 23 20:03
seller_	Application is a real unit of significance for user	Nov 23 20:03
*_doug has quit ()		Nov 23 20:03
seller_	A Application is a set of packages	Nov 23 20:03
PetoKraus	and?	Nov 23 20:04
seller_	The installation of apps must be installed using set of packages	Nov 23 20:04
PetoKraus	well yes, since every package provides you with an app…	Nov 23 20:04
PetoKraus	roughly.	Nov 23 20:04
seller_	no	Nov 23 20:05
seller_	An package provides a dependence for the app	Nov 23 20:05
seller_	It’s not the app	Nov 23 20:05
PetoKraus	which is most of the time just another app	Nov 23 20:05
seller_	IBut there ’s not a significance for the user	Nov 23 20:05
PetoKraus	well, it depends	Nov 23 20:05
seller_	‘It’s only a DLL for the app work”	Nov 23 20:05
PetoKraus	python is significant for me	Nov 23 20:05
PetoKraus	and it’s pulled is as an dependency of…. craploads of packages	Nov 23 20:06
seller_	No,for the user is not	Nov 23 20:06
seller_	Example	Nov 23 20:07
PetoKraus	haha	Nov 23 20:07
PetoKraus	you wanna argue that i am not a user?	Nov 23 20:07
seller_	Elisa is significant for the user	Nov 23 20:07
seller_	But Python is not	Nov 23 20:07
*Eruaran (n=jeremy@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 23 20:07
PetoKraus	well okay, but for some users python IS significant	Nov 23 20:07
seller_	And then Elise must packaged with Python	Nov 23 20:07
PetoKraus	why?	Nov 23 20:07
Eruaran	Caused enough problems for an astroturfer on youtube for him to block my comments.	Nov 23 20:08
Eruaran	What a loser.	Nov 23 20:08
PetoKraus	Eruaran: hehe	Nov 23 20:08
seller_	Example	Nov 23 20:08
schestowitz	seller_: buy a PC with Linux-compatible h/w. What do you do when some h/w has no Windows drivers? Or is it just not stocked in shops? Some problem.	Nov 23 20:08
seller_	The user wants Elisa	Nov 23 20:08
schestowitz	PetoKraus: seller_ is not a troll.	Nov 23 20:09
PetoKraus	well i don’t care about users who want elisa	Nov 23 20:09
*schestowitz catches up (back from the gym)		Nov 23 20:09
PetoKraus	i care about myself, and i need python	Nov 23 20:09
seller_	But Why the hell the user needs to worry to fetch Python	Nov 23 20:09
Eruaran	Have a look: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=M8AqXaNr8ag	Nov 23 20:09
PetoKraus	well he doesn’t	Nov 23 20:09
Eruaran	Keruaran is me	Nov 23 20:09
seller_	Windowz is the same manner	Nov 23 20:09
PetoKraus	the package manager does the same	Nov 23 20:09
PetoKraus	*it for you	Nov 23 20:09
Eruaran	I can’t comment on his channel now cause I’m blocked	Nov 23 20:09
Eruaran	Caused him too much embarrasment	Nov 23 20:10
seller_	no	Nov 23 20:10
seller_	Look	Nov 23 20:10
PetoKraus	i get no sound…	Nov 23 20:10
PetoKraus	is it normal?	Nov 23 20:10
seller_	Amsn uses my idea for example	Nov 23 20:10
Eruaran	He’ll probably delete my comments soon	Nov 23 20:10
seller_	Amsn windowz installer is bundled with Tcl/Tk and everything	Nov 23 20:11
PetoKraus	well obviously yes	Nov 23 20:11
PetoKraus	but linux is not windows	Nov 23 20:11
seller_	Because the user only wants the amsn ,and do not worry about Tcl/Tk	Nov 23 20:11
Eruaran	Look at his most recent comment - he blocked me and then he posted that…	Nov 23 20:11
seller_	But packaging system is very stupid	Nov 23 20:11
seller_	Because is very minimal	Nov 23 20:11
MinceR	seller_: i’m sure it’s very efficient to make bloated installers because a system doesn’t have a proper package manager to handle dependencies	Nov 23 20:11
seller_	Is only handy for prefessionals worried about security	Nov 23 20:12
MinceR	seller_: and that isn’t even addressing the case when a newer tcl/tk version should be installed in the first place	Nov 23 20:12
MinceR	(because of a security issue or another bug)	Nov 23 20:12
Eruaran	This guy tried to claim that Microsoft came up with desktop search and that it was Apple that copied Microsoft	Nov 23 20:12
seller_	Because windows	Nov 23 20:12
seller_	does not worry about Third-party packages	Nov 23 20:12
trmanco	Eruaran, don’t feed him	Nov 23 20:12
MinceR	seller_: windows doesn’t have a sane way to manage packages	Nov 23 20:13
Eruaran	trmanco: he was getting owned	Nov 23 20:13
Eruaran	trmanco: so he blocked me	Nov 23 20:13
trmanco	Eruaran, the majority of the trolls get owned	Nov 23 20:13
seller_	If Tcl/Tk is already installed , windows does not worry about	Nov 23 20:13
Eruaran		Nov 23 20:13
MinceR	seller_: yet you want to download it and store it along with the actual app anyway	Nov 23 20:13
trmanco	yes, they have childish acts	Nov 23 20:13
seller_	The installer tries to install another version of Tcl/Tk using multislot technolgy	Nov 23 20:14
MinceR	lol, multislot technology	Nov 23 20:14
PetoKraus	it’s not “multislot technology”	Nov 23 20:14
PetoKraus	it’s “let’s overwrite whatever is there”	Nov 23 20:14
seller_	Ubuntu uses a stupid inteligent manner called meta-packages	Nov 23 20:14
PetoKraus	and hope we are not gonna break it… or why hope, just DIF!	Nov 23 20:14
trmanco	Eruaran, you got lucky, I already got an unknown disease, one that I can’t evaluate MS products decently	Nov 23 20:14
trmanco	A troll said this to me when he was getting owned	Nov 23 20:15
seller_	Windows does not worry about this	Nov 23 20:15
seller_	Thirdy parties need to worry about this	Nov 23 20:15
seller_	The installer can overwrite or not	Nov 23 20:15
seller_	But This is not problem for M$ ,only for Third-party	Nov 23 20:16
PetoKraus	doh, the interface is completely unusable	Nov 23 20:16
PetoKraus	Eruaran: ^	Nov 23 20:16
PetoKraus	how about a PC without a MOUSE, BITCH?!	Nov 23 20:16
seller_	Packaging System is stupid ,because tries to fetch a dumb package paranoid list	Nov 23 20:17
PetoKraus	right	Nov 23 20:17
seller_	Gentoo for example ,fetch 100 Mb! of text	Nov 23 20:17
Eruaran	It got to the point where I was taunting him with “Whats next, MS touting mount points as an innovation ?”	Nov 23 20:17
PetoKraus	right	Nov 23 20:18
trmanco	lol	Nov 23 20:18
seller_	The windowz and PC-BSD system uses a independen manner to install apps	Nov 23 20:18
seller_	(not packages)	Nov 23 20:18
seller_	There’s not a need of package list	Nov 23 20:18
seller_	and Hiper paranoid trusted servers	Nov 23 20:18
Eruaran	I just think that if the guy has to block me and then beat his chest some more about how great Windows 7 is, with the same kind of hubris Microsoft demonstrated back in 2003 where they said Vista would put them “four years” ahead of any other platform… He’s a MS flunky.	Nov 23 20:19
seller_	Did you understand?	Nov 23 20:20
PetoKraus	i have complete control about order of the icons in the taskbar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!lim[x->0]sinx/x	Nov 23 20:20
PetoKraus	what the FUCK	Nov 23 20:20
PetoKraus	the ignore is broken	Nov 23 20:20
Eruaran	lol	Nov 23 20:21
PetoKraus	hmm “all your windows7 pc’s are automatically searching one another and sharing printers”	Nov 23 20:22
schestowitz	trmanco: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient…	Nov 23 20:22
PetoKraus	doesn’t sound like security hole like… AT ALL!	Nov 23 20:23
trmanco	schestowitz, thanks	Nov 23 20:23
PetoKraus	default sharing, WTF?	Nov 23 20:23
PetoKraus	did she have a license to play that music for commercial use?	Nov 23 20:24
*kapipi (n=chatzill@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 23 20:25
PetoKraus	doh, networked playback, OLD	Nov 23 20:25
*_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 23 20:26
PetoKraus	pulseaudio ripoff, at least	Nov 23 20:26
schestowitz	brb	Nov 23 20:26
PetoKraus	Eruaran: you made my day, you know?	Nov 23 20:26
Eruaran	Really ?	Nov 23 20:27
PetoKraus	it’s almost as funny as dr. Pugh or how was he called	Nov 23 20:27
PetoKraus	bashing BBC	Nov 23 20:27
Eruaran	hehe	Nov 23 20:27
Eruaran	That clip he put up was hilarious	Nov 23 20:28
Eruaran	And sad	Nov 23 20:28
PetoKraus	he put it up himself?	Nov 23 20:28
Eruaran	yes	Nov 23 20:28
Eruaran	Windows 7 clips from PDC is all his channel has on it	Nov 23 20:28
Eruaran	At one point in the clip, a guy puts a couple of ‘gadgets’ on the desktop and says, “you can put gadgets anywhere on the desktop now”… and the audience claps…	Nov 23 20:29
Eruaran	erm	Nov 23 20:29
Eruaran	I was like… o_0	Nov 23 20:29
trmanco	looool	Nov 23 20:29
Eruaran	And I’m thinking…. uhmm shouldnt they be laughing ?	Nov 23 20:30
trmanco	who was the genius who created those innovating gadgets? O.o	Nov 23 20:30
PetoKraus	i dunno. they are mostly useless	Nov 23 20:30
trmanco	I sort of like gadgets to see the cpu usage and ram usage	Nov 23 20:31
Eruaran	I got the Windows 7 wallpaper they were using at PDC and changed my Plasma theme to Glassified and sent a friend a screenshot	Nov 23 20:31
trmanco	but they are a little ram hungry, só I just use those gnome applets	Nov 23 20:31
Eruaran	He’s like, “YOU HAVE WINDOWS 7 ???”	Nov 23 20:31
trmanco		Nov 23 20:31
trmanco	yet again, who was the innovating genius who created that start menu on se7en?	Nov 23 20:32
MinceR	oh, i get it	Nov 23 20:32
MinceR	seller_ calls everything he doesn’t understand “stupid”	Nov 23 20:33
seller_	Me? Why?	Nov 23 20:33
MinceR	i don’t know	Nov 23 20:34
MinceR	perhaps it’s a badly thought out troll tactic	Nov 23 20:34
seller_	Are you crazy?I’m not a troll	Nov 23 20:34
seller_	Linux need to grow and conquer the society	Nov 23 20:35
MinceR	and if you had your way, linux would attempt that by imitating windows	Nov 23 20:35
seller_	Packaging system and lack of GUI administrative tools (like hardware manager)	Nov 23 20:35
seller_	is very	Nov 23 20:35
seller_	Stupid	Nov 23 20:35
MinceR	and you have yet to support that claim	Nov 23 20:35
seller_	No!	Nov 23 20:36
Eruaran	Package management ?	Nov 23 20:36
Eruaran	Deb or RPM ?	Nov 23 20:36
Eruaran	Or ports ?	Nov 23 20:36
seller_	Windows have some good design techiniques	Nov 23 20:36
seller_	But it’s not cloning windows	Nov 23 20:36
MinceR	seller_: if you want another windows, go to the reactos guys — they’re trying to do just that	Nov 23 20:36
seller_	but use some techiniques	Nov 23 20:36
Eruaran	Why ?	Nov 23 20:36
MinceR	no, windows is a heap of design flaws implemented badly	Nov 23 20:36
seller_	I’m using rectos in Virtual Box	Nov 23 20:36
seller_	No	Nov 23 20:37
seller_	Look at	Nov 23 20:37
seller_	React Os HomePage	Nov 23 20:37
MinceR	seller_: here’s a tip: you can put more than 3 words on a row	Nov 23 20:37
Eruaran	I’m an APT man myself	Nov 23 20:37
seller_	Security flaws is acceptabble	Nov 23 20:37
Eruaran	uhmm	Nov 23 20:37
MinceR	no, they aren’t	Nov 23 20:37
Eruaran	certainly not	Nov 23 20:37
seller_	but M$ invests a lot of Design of user Interface	Nov 23 20:37
MinceR	and another tip: “No” on a line by itself isn’t going to convince anyone	Nov 23 20:37
MinceR	they’re doing it wrong	Nov 23 20:38
MinceR	crApple is doing the same, by the way	Nov 23 20:38
Eruaran	What good is a pretty interface if you’re getting viruses and spyware on a regular basis ?	Nov 23 20:38
MinceR	if only it was pretty	Nov 23 20:38
seller_	Security flaws	Nov 23 20:38
Eruaran	heh	Nov 23 20:38
seller_	Not Design Flaws	Nov 23 20:38
twitter	Here’s a billboard I saw the other day, http://bayimg.com/MajnmAabl	Nov 23 20:39
twitter	Not that I’d do what that man says.	Nov 23 20:39
MinceR	ok, is there anyone around who isn’t tired of seller_’s trolling?	Nov 23 20:39
MinceR	twitter: lol	Nov 23 20:39
seller_	I’m not a troll	Nov 23 20:39
MinceR	twitter: did he really say that? when?	Nov 23 20:39
Eruaran	lol	Nov 23 20:39
Eruaran	gtg	Nov 23 20:39
*Eruaran has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Nov 23 20:39
twitter	no, he did not say that. He did let Sweaty B and friends make Vista though.	Nov 23 20:40
MinceR	there’s a point :>	Nov 23 20:40
seller_	I like GNU Linux	Nov 23 20:40
seller_	http://www.reactos.org/en/about.html	Nov 23 20:40
seller_	Packages are stupid ,lack of GUI and fron-backend are stupid	Nov 23 20:41
seller_	Only this	Nov 23 20:41
seller_	But Freedom is very good and optimization too	Nov 23 20:41
seller_	Follow my tips and Linux will grow	Nov 23 20:42
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schestowitz	seller_: what’s the matter with you today?	Nov 23 20:47
schestowitz	Will the real seller/liar stand up?	Nov 23 20:47
seller_	Sorry Roy ,but I like to see Linux Growing	Nov 23 20:47
seller_	And I have used a lot of distros	Nov 23 20:48
schestowitz	Where is the old seller and what did you do to him?	Nov 23 20:48
schestowitz	You know Oh!-solaris and bsd too, but…	Nov 23 20:48
seller_	There key problems in Linux	Nov 23 20:48
schestowitz	I disagree with many of the things you wrote (I just caught up)	Nov 23 20:48
schestowitz	Many are not supported by good evidence.	Nov 23 20:48
seller_	But I Like Linux and freedoom	Nov 23 20:48
schestowitz	Reminds me of Beranger/LunixH4t3r	Nov 23 20:49
seller_	Yes I know , but have some sense	Nov 23 20:49
schestowitz	You harm Linux and freedom if you say they should be like Windows.	Nov 23 20:49
MinceR	schestowitz: apparently he thinks linux can grow by copying the design flaws of windows	Nov 23 20:49
seller_	No!	Nov 23 20:49
schestowitz	EVEN MICROSOFT gives up on Windows.	Nov 23 20:49
schestowitz	Even Microsoft…	Nov 23 20:49
MinceR	even though we already have a project that does that	Nov 23 20:49
schestowitz	Don’t believe me?	Nov 23 20:49
seller_	It’s my mistake	Nov 23 20:49
MinceR	it’s called reactos	Nov 23 20:49
schestowitz	I’lll give refs	Nov 23 20:49
seller_	I will not say to copy windows	Nov 23 20:50
MinceR	you already have	Nov 23 20:50
seller_	I Was trying to say is the windows have some good ideas ,	Nov 23 20:50
seller_	But Never Linux to be a copy of windows	Nov 23 20:50
MinceR	it might, but the ideas you’ve listed so far were design flaws	Nov 23 20:50
seller_	Lack of Hardware Manager is a design flaw	Nov 23 20:51
MinceR	until proven otherwise, i will think and say that windows has no good ideas that most OS-es don’t already have	Nov 23 20:51
MinceR	seller_: what is this “Hardware Manager” supposed to do?	Nov 23 20:51
seller_	Install device drivers	Nov 23 20:52
seller_	Using a user friendly Graphical user Interface	Nov 23 20:52
MinceR	installing drivers are handled by the package manager already	Nov 23 20:52
MinceR	and most of them come with the kernel	Nov 23 20:52
seller_	This is the problem	Nov 23 20:52
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seller_	Linux kernel is not perfect	Nov 23 20:53
MinceR	(all of them should, but some hardware vendors are too stupid to let this happen)	Nov 23 20:53
seller_	sometimes it fails	Nov 23 20:53
MinceR	seller_: so the problem is that you don’t understand package managers and are unwilling to learn about them	Nov 23 20:53
trmanco	brb	Nov 23 20:53
seller_	And the user must see install software using a good interface and in a indepdente	Nov 23 20:53
seller_	manner	Nov 23 20:53
MinceR	been there, done that	Nov 23 20:54
MinceR	seller_: have you even used a gnu/linux system?	Nov 23 20:54
seller_	Yes, why?	Nov 23 20:54
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MinceR	you speak as though you haven’t	Nov 23 20:54
seller_	Package management is not a good way to install drivers	Nov 23 20:55
MinceR	arguments, please	Nov 23 20:55
MinceR	facts, please	Nov 23 20:55
twitter	my computer loves me with all it’s heart and soul.	Nov 23 20:55
twitter	Laughing at Windows 7	Nov 23 20:55
MinceR	my computer has no heart nor soul	Nov 23 20:55
seller_	Drivers muyst be installed through a independent manner	Nov 23 20:56
twitter	Really inadequate window management. Better but still single screen suckage	Nov 23 20:56
schestowitz	seller_: YaST is a h/w manager	Nov 23 20:56
schestowitz	Mandriva has one too	Nov 23 20:56
seller_	Using CDs for example	Nov 23 20:56
MinceR	seller_: why?	Nov 23 20:56
seller_	Package is a very dark manner to install packages	Nov 23 20:56
MinceR	seller_: also, most package managers can already install from cds	Nov 23 20:56
MinceR	dark, lol	Nov 23 20:56
MinceR	seller_: so, are you going to keep repeating this now?	Nov 23 20:57
seller_	No	Nov 23 20:57
seller_	What I’m Try to say is	Nov 23 20:57
MinceR	i’ve seen that line before	Nov 23 20:57
seller_	necessary to create good wizards and Guis for administrative tasks	Nov 23 20:57
seller_	And nothing based in Frontend technologies	Nov 23 20:58
MinceR	you’re getting less coherent	Nov 23 20:58
MinceR	oh, well	Nov 23 20:58
*MinceR gives up on this troll		Nov 23 20:58
seller_	Hardware Manager, A Wizard for install networks in a simple manner	Nov 23 20:59
twitter	Amazing admission at PDC, “no one, except a few people inside this room” has ever been able to make home networking work. It’s true but, OMG.	Nov 23 20:59
twitter	Oh noes, “I can look at her music” with Windows 7.	Nov 23 21:00
twitter	Windows remembers where the content is on your network so you don’t have to …. oh my.	Nov 23 21:00
MinceR	lol	Nov 23 21:01
twitter	“Send your media all over your house”	Nov 23 21:01
seller_	The userland of Linux is very good	Nov 23 21:01
seller_	But install drivers and other administrative tasks is very hard	Nov 23 21:02
twitter	That’s only because device makers have been so uncooperative. Free software drivers install themselves once they are written.	Nov 23 21:03
seller_	Userland = 10!	Nov 23 21:03
seller_	Administration = 2	Nov 23 21:03
twitter	eh?	Nov 23 21:03
trmanco	back	Nov 23 21:03
MinceR	he isn’t making any sense, is he?	Nov 23 21:03
schestowitz	socialism, DOW below $3K, and other interesting predictions < http://technocrat.net/d/2008/11/22/54627 >	Nov 23 21:03
schestowitz	” The prediction is made by a hedge fund manager who is up 40% over the past year. How? He saw stuff coming and went long no bonds. (”I look like a genius at the moment!”) He also predicts an 80% decline in stocks. He predicts a 4-5% GDP drop next year. “	Nov 23 21:04
seller_	Userland insterface (KDE ,Gnome ) is perfect	Nov 23 21:04
seller_	Administration (configure networking,install drivers ,) , hard	Nov 23 21:05
twitter	I am perfect.	Nov 23 21:05
schestowitz	No, seller_ , it’s great	Nov 23 21:05
schestowitz	KDE makes it very simple.	Nov 23 21:05
schestowitz	seller_: did yoy use LFS or Arch?	Nov 23 21:05
MinceR	i don’t think he has used either	Nov 23 21:06
seller_	I used ,gentoo	Nov 23 21:06
seller_	My networking is very annoying	Nov 23 21:06
schestowitz	me@charlie rose < http://lessig.org/blog/2008/11/me… >	Nov 23 21:06
seller_	Always I have to activate using Dhcpcd	Nov 23 21:06
trmanco	seller_, o que é que te aconteceu? Para estares assim hoje?	Nov 23 21:06
seller_	Attansic L2	Nov 23 21:07
seller_	trmanco: nada ,são só observações inofensivas depois de algum tempo usando luinux	Nov 23 21:07
seller_	trmanco: não foi nada ofensivo	Nov 23 21:07
MinceR	oh, you’ve started with gentoo despite being warned that it isn’t for beginners and now you’re butthurt at gnu/linux because of your own stupidity?	Nov 23 21:07
twitter	KDE and Gnome’s little root password dialog is a good mechanism.	Nov 23 21:07
seller_	No!	Nov 23 21:07
seller_	MinceR: I have started using Ubuntu	Nov 23 21:08
twitter	Congratulations.	Nov 23 21:08
twitter	have you had a problem we can help you with?	Nov 23 21:08
MinceR	well, does networking work in ubuntu? yes it does.	Nov 23 21:08
MinceR	does hardware configuration work in ubuntu? yes it does.	Nov 23 21:08
seller_	If fails	Nov 23 21:08
MinceR	does installing drivers work in ubuntu? yes it does	Nov 23 21:08
seller_	What the user do?	Nov 23 21:08
MinceR	What me worry?	Nov 23 21:09
twitter	What fails?	Nov 23 21:09
*seller_ has quit (”http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”)		Nov 23 21:09
trmanco	X fails sometimes	Nov 23 21:09
twitter	seller_ failed.	Nov 23 21:09
trmanco	but it is easy to get it back	Nov 23 21:09
MinceR	seller_’s trolling fails.	Nov 23 21:09
twitter	it should restart itself.	Nov 23 21:09
twitter	X that is.	Nov 23 21:10
MinceR	no, seller_ shouldn’t restart itself.	Nov 23 21:10
MinceR	:>	Nov 23 21:10
trmanco	I don’t know what really happened wit him today, acting weird	Nov 23 21:10
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twitter	what failed, seller?	Nov 23 21:10
MinceR	oh no, it restarted	Nov 23 21:10
seller_	i have closed Mibbit	Nov 23 21:10
MinceR	it was a good idea. do so again.	Nov 23 21:11
seller_	Ok, guys , I will not tell anymore	Nov 23 21:11
seller_	I need to go	Nov 23 21:11
trmanco	twitter, I’m talking about mis-configured xorg.conf files, you know,when you install a know card or something	Nov 23 21:11
seller_	If the hardware detection fails ,what the use must do?	Nov 23 21:12
trmanco	I’ve been on a situation like that I I got back X with 3 commands	Nov 23 21:12
seller_	like networking	Nov 23 21:12
trmanco	and*	Nov 23 21:12
twitter	Eh, just reinstall X.	Nov 23 21:12
seller_	The user tries to install using ./configure make make install?	Nov 23 21:12
schestowitz	BullerproofX	Nov 23 21:13
schestowitz	*let	Nov 23 21:13
trmanco	I don’t remember networking failing since I started using Linux (Ethernet)	Nov 23 21:13
seller_	My attansic Fails a lot OF times	Nov 23 21:13
trmanco	schestowitz, Fedora 9 doesn’t have that I think	Nov 23 21:13
trmanco	twitter, it is faster if you can reconfigure X	Nov 23 21:14
_doug	ot: McDonald’s patent the sandwich ..	Nov 23 21:14
_doug	http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/…	Nov 23 21:14
twitter	Sure. It’s also faster if the guy down the street can do it for you, like happens with Winblows and is increasingly happening with GNU/Linux.	Nov 23 21:14
twitter	Ultimately, computer service is all about community.	Nov 23 21:15
seller_	http://ubuntuforums.org/sh…	Nov 23 21:15
twitter	M$ abuses the community, so it is leaving.	Nov 23 21:15
twitter	Swap out a video card in XP and newer and you will find yourself begging bill G to reauthorize your OS.	Nov 23 21:16
schestowitz	OpenSolaris 2008.11 RC2 Released < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n… >	Nov 23 21:16
trmanco	That won’t happen on my system	Nov 23 21:16
schestowitz	trmanco: it’ll probably reach Fedora	Nov 23 21:16
schestowitz	But they work on a new X server (fork, IIRC)	Nov 23 21:16
twitter	The Vista capable disaster shows that you can’t believe the label on the box for video anymore anyway.	Nov 23 21:16
trmanco	schestowitz, which?	Nov 23 21:16
_doug	www.wipo.int .. is there an int top level domain ?	Nov 23 21:16
trmanco	int	Nov 23 21:17
twitter	What’s the user to do when Winblows fails? Wait six years for a lawsuit to get him a coupon for another copy of Winblows or buy a new computer?	Nov 23 21:17
trmanco	yes	Nov 23 21:17
schestowitz	_doug: watch how yu make your sandwich	Nov 23 21:17
*seller_ has quit (”http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”)		Nov 23 21:17
trmanco	_doug, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.int	Nov 23 21:17
twitter	X.org’s simple text file configuration rules next to that mess.	Nov 23 21:17
schestowitz	McDonald’s could crack down on local shops.. with baseball bats and all…	Nov 23 21:17
schestowitz	trmanco: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag… ( More Work On Red Hat’s Wayland Project )	Nov 23 21:18
schestowitz	http://www.heise-online.co.uk/open/New-Wayland-X-serve… ( New Wayland X server looks to how a modern desktop works )	Nov 23 21:18
trmanco	twitter, in Windows land, when it fails, just format C: and reinstall Windows… and all the programs you need for daily usage	Nov 23 21:18
schestowitz	http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&am… (Wayland: A New X Server For Linux )	Nov 23 21:19
schestowitz	Fedora moves the X server < http://lwn.net/Articles/305047/ >	Nov 23 21:19
trmanco	Wayland hmm	Nov 23 21:19
twitter	and the SPs and “up to date” drivers and AV and you lost all your settings and files and days worth to work and …. your computer is part of the botnet before it’s done.	Nov 23 21:19
schestowitz	lucien is spreading FUD	Nov 23 21:19
twitter	ah.	Nov 23 21:20
schestowitz	Maybe he’s having a hard day or maybe he’s on some payroll or something.	Nov 23 21:20
schestowitz	lucian=seller-_liar	Nov 23 21:20
twitter	Fedora. Looks.	Nov 23 21:20
schestowitz	It’s really him.. I see the IP	Nov 23 21:20
schestowitz	*Lucien	Nov 23 21:20
twitter	the seller_ that’s here now or the one who’s been here before?	Nov 23 21:21
_doug	SimplyMEPIS: The best desktop Linux you haven’t tried ..	Nov 23 21:21
_doug	http://www.linux.com/feature/153431	Nov 23 21:21
twitter	Yeah, Roy linked to that.	Nov 23 21:21
trmanco	schestowitz, yeah, checked if he speaks portuguese too	Nov 23 21:21
twitter	Nice article.	Nov 23 21:21
schestowitz	Brazilian	Nov 23 21:22
schestowitz	But he used to be OK	Nov 23 21:22
schestowitz	Yesterday (or Friday) he spread FUD too.	Nov 23 21:22
schestowitz	Like some of of BarkToPointOh	Nov 23 21:22
schestowitz	*kind of	Nov 23 21:22
_doug	Red Hat Fedora Claims It’s the Leader in Linux ..	Nov 23 21:23
_doug	http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3…	Nov 23 21:23
_doug	Pentagon hit by virus ..	Nov 23 21:25
_doug	http://www.internetnews.com/government/article.php/378…	Nov 23 21:25
_doug	“It sounds like the DoD doesn’t have a policy in place, and I find this surprising,” Kandek told InternetNews.com. “It’s long been well known that removable media can bear viruses that will infect your system.”	Nov 23 21:25
_doug	I use gentoo :]	Nov 23 21:27
neighborlee	I might have tried gentoo ages ago, but having to compile everything never enticed me on any level, but I do admire its goals.	Nov 23 21:30
_doug	I wasn’t serious ..	Nov 23 21:33
_doug	The only reason to compile from scratch is to get a blandingly-fast highly tuned to the hardware distro ..	Nov 23 21:34
schestowitz	Microsoft employed the founder of Gentoo.	Nov 23 21:34
_doug	blindingly ..	Nov 23 21:34
schestowitz	There’s a danger now.	Nov 23 21:34
schestowitz	Also because of Oracle.	Nov 23 21:34
_doug	In this day of 3.6 GHz processors and 4GB ram, that’s not such a problem anymore ..	Nov 23 21:35
schestowitz	With the current crisis (coming depression), large companies will sweep up lots of the good companies of pennies. We ought to protect from further cetralisation of power… which is opposite to the goals of Free softtware	Nov 23 21:35
_doug	ot: burning question of the day ..	Nov 23 21:35
_doug	“How do avatars have sex?”	Nov 23 21:36
_doug	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/m…	Nov 23 21:36
_doug	not very satisfactorly, I would imagine .. ;]	Nov 23 21:36
_doug	“Robbins resigned less than a year later on 16 January 2006 due to frustrations that he was unable to fully utilize his technical skills in this position. His new job is at ABC Coding Solutions where he will be focused on building in .NET on Windows”	Nov 23 21:37
_doug	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_…	Nov 23 21:37
trmanco	http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.li…	Nov 23 21:39
trmanco	brb	Nov 23 21:39
_doug	gtg ..	Nov 23 21:40
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schestowitz	How predictable	Nov 23 21:44
schestowitz	Symantec warned about the new stack.	Nov 23 21:44
schestowitz	They pulled out BSD code, put their out goo	Nov 23 21:44
neighborlee	im finding more that think mono is free and offering url’s to show the view that they are not. ( LIke the rms statement.groklaw etc.)	Nov 23 21:54
*Eruaran (n=Eruaran@CPE-121-220-34-70.vic.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 23 21:55
schestowitz	That’s valuable, thank you	Nov 23 21:55
Eruaran	hello	Nov 23 21:55
schestowitz	Hey, KDE guru	Nov 23 21:55
Eruaran	lol	Nov 23 21:55
neighborlee	np ;0-	Nov 23 21:55
Eruaran	No use looking at that exchange between me and drphysx on youtube now	Nov 23 21:55
neighborlee	hi there Eruaran	Nov 23 21:55
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Eruaran	he’s deleted my comments	Nov 23 21:55
schestowitz	Like ms viral vids	Nov 23 21:56
schestowitz	hold on	Nov 23 21:56
Eruaran	I knew he would	Nov 23 21:56
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/03/micr…	Nov 23 21:57
schestowitz	Watch:	Nov 23 21:57
schestowitz	http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/30/microsoft-usin…	Nov 23 21:57
schestowitz	This coul be MS marketing	Nov 23 21:58
*evildragon has quit (Client Quit)		Nov 23 21:58
Eruaran	He was completely owned and exposed it was very embarrassing for him.	Nov 23 21:59
Eruaran	So… delete delete	Nov 23 21:59
Eruaran	The funny part was that he would say something that was completely misinformed in triumphant fashion and tell me I didn’t know what I was talking about	Nov 23 22:01
Eruaran	I would counter with the truth and tell him to try again	Nov 23 22:02
Eruaran	It made him look bad	Nov 23 22:02
*PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 23 22:02
Eruaran	I better get back to work…	Nov 23 22:03
Eruaran		Nov 23 22:03
*Eruaran has quit (” HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it”)		Nov 23 22:03
trmanco	His work is on a Windows machine	Nov 23 22:04
*neighborlee has quit (”Leaving”)		Nov 23 22:06
PetoKraus	did you know that MSN won’t forward your mails anywhere?	Nov 23 22:07
PetoKraus	You’re only able to forward mail to a custom domain or an e-mail address that ends in hotmail.com, msn.com, or live.com. Please try again.	Nov 23 22:07
trmanco	ho really?	Nov 23 22:08
trmanco	never used that service to that point	Nov 23 22:08
trmanco	oh*	Nov 23 22:08
PetoKraus	me neither	Nov 23 22:09
trmanco	stupid limitations	Nov 23 22:09
trmanco	I wonder how MS is going to BS this fact	Nov 23 22:10
trmanco	is it that their servers can’t handle the load?	Nov 23 22:10
trmanco	maybe	Nov 23 22:10
trmanco	have to go, cya tomorrow	Nov 23 22:13
schestowitz	Microsoft lockin bolted on	Nov 23 22:16
schestowitz	What else would you expect from a company that built itself using proprietary formats, sabotage of standards and very stubborn lock-in	Nov 23 22:16
schestowitz	Heh. http://blog.s11n.net/?p=66	Nov 23 23:15
MinceR	lol	Nov 23 23:18
twitter	“trmanco: His work is on a Windows machine” - that’s sad, if true.	Nov 23 23:22
schestowitz	Sounds more like an oxymoron, if true.	Nov 23 23:23
*kapipi has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Nov 23 23:23
twitter	Wasted effort is often considered work.	Nov 23 23:24
twitter	Monopoly jobs are like that.	Nov 23 23:26
PetoKraus	the guys at wine are nuts	Nov 23 23:26
PetoKraus	:/	Nov 23 23:26
twitter	Must be, but I like what they managed to do.	Nov 23 23:26
twitter	Dirty job.	Nov 23 23:27
PetoKraus	well… yes	Nov 23 23:27
*Eruaran (n=Eruaran@CPE-121-220-34-70.vic.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 23 23:27
Eruaran	hi	Nov 23 23:27
PetoKraus	you AGAIN?	Nov 23 23:27
Eruaran	yes	Nov 23 23:27
PetoKraus	you better have another funny movie with you….	Nov 23 23:27
Eruaran	lol	Nov 23 23:27
Eruaran	I got a lotta funny movies	Nov 23 23:28
twitter	You do quick work too.	Nov 23 23:28
Eruaran	Im still at work	Nov 23 23:28
Eruaran	I just thought I’d lurk	Nov 23 23:28
*Eruaran lurks		Nov 23 23:29
twitter	cool	Nov 23 23:30
schestowitz	AlexH loses it	Nov 23 23:31
schestowitz	He’s cursing now.	Nov 23 23:32
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/22/prot…	Nov 23 23:32
Eruaran	Didn’t you get an email from someone at Microsoft about licensing ?	Nov 23 23:33
schestowitz	Eruaran: yes, that’s the one.	Nov 23 23:37
Eruaran	The not-so-open “open source”	Nov 23 23:39
schestowitz	cyberborg [sic] shoots from the hip: “This is not a defense of Novell, may their top management go to hell if any of the FUD generated by likes of boycottnovell has any bit of truth, I as a member of openSUSE community is proud to be working with some really nice people and happy to enjoy all the goodness they are sharing.”	Nov 23 23:40
schestowitz	http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~cyberorg/… <—- Opensuse person	Nov 23 23:40
twitter	AlexH never had it.	Nov 23 23:45
twitter	heckle, nothing more.	Nov 23 23:45
twitter	Here’s something funny. The Vista show, http://www.youtube.com/profile?use… has been around and nobody’s watching.	Nov 23 23:46
twitter	After 11 months, their biggest hit is Sharing Slideshows with less than half a million viewers.	Nov 23 23:46
twitter	Most have less than 10,000	Nov 23 23:46
twitter	compare to “Where the hell is Matt” with more than 12,000,000 views. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=w…	Nov 23 23:47
twitter	His outtakes had more than 3,000,000 views in a year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT8jA_pps3o	Nov 23 23:48
PetoKraus	this day needs more pink floyd.	Nov 23 23:48
twitter	Ubuntu videos from random people do better than 200,000 in a year. http://www.youtube.com/results?search…	Nov 23 23:50
schestowitz	Deploy on Linux or stay with XP - Hasta la Vista < http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/… >	Nov 23 23:50
schestowitz	The sound of empire falling < http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=647 >	Nov 23 23:51
twitter	Some do better than 4,000,000	Nov 23 23:51
schestowitz	Also new (but les snew): Deja Vista? < http://www.microsplot.com/blo… >	Nov 23 23:51
twitter	more pink floyd http://www.youtube.com/results?…	Nov 23 23:52
PetoKraus	did he actually go to all those places?	Nov 23 23:54
Eruaran	bloody hell… I’m trying to do a profit report atm and for some reason if I switch between calc and excel it doesn’t display basic formula results properly in excel anymore	Nov 23 23:55
schestowitz	Heh. I likes that Matt footage.	Nov 23 23:55
Eruaran	Its basic as in =SUM(C5:C28)	Nov 23 23:55
schestowitz	Thanks for pointing that out.	Nov 23 23:55
Eruaran	wont display in excel… what is with that	Nov 23 23:56
Eruaran	open it up in calc… its fine	Nov 23 23:56
PetoKraus	INTERO~1	Nov 23 23:56
PetoKraus	gimme dat paracetamol, eugene!	Nov 23 23:58

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