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	<title>Comments on: Leaked: Microsoft Pays Companies to Recommend Windows</title>
	<atom:link href="http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/</link>
	<description>Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:53:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-8/#comment-42231</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42231</guid>
		<description>That too. There&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/29/exclusionary-deals-linux/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;lots of history here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That too. There&#8217;s <a href="http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/29/exclusionary-deals-linux/" rel="nofollow">lots of history here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-7/#comment-42227</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42227</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Probably ethics. &lt;/i&gt;

I doubt it.  The reason they don&#039;t do it is because, generally speaking, they can&#039;t assert the kind of pressure on OEMs that Microsoft can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Probably ethics. </i></p>
<p>I doubt it.  The reason they don&#8217;t do it is because, generally speaking, they can&#8217;t assert the kind of pressure on OEMs that Microsoft can.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-7/#comment-42148</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42148</guid>
		<description>Probably ethics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably ethics.</p>
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		<title>By: Merchy</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-7/#comment-42147</link>
		<dc:creator>Merchy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42147</guid>
		<description>Why dont some of the linux distributers do the same?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why dont some of the linux distributers do the same?</p>
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		<title>By: Ari T.</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-7/#comment-42141</link>
		<dc:creator>Ari T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42141</guid>
		<description>I have never seen this document before, although I have been following this area for a few years. Thanks for posting it Roy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have never seen this document before, although I have been following this area for a few years. Thanks for posting it Roy.</p>
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		<title>By: GreyCells</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-7/#comment-42139</link>
		<dc:creator>GreyCells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42139</guid>
		<description>Play Microsoft at their own game - I have yet to see:

&quot;[My company] does *not* recommend Microsoft Windows Vista&#124;XP&#124;95.&quot; 

or 

&quot;[My company] recommends you avoid Microsoft Windows Vista&#124;XP&#124;95 like the plague.&quot; 

on any website - now *that* would be an advertising campaign that money could not buy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Play Microsoft at their own game &#8211; I have yet to see:</p>
<p>&#8220;[My company] does *not* recommend Microsoft Windows Vista|XP|95.&#8221; </p>
<p>or </p>
<p>&#8220;[My company] recommends you avoid Microsoft Windows Vista|XP|95 like the plague.&#8221; </p>
<p>on any website &#8211; now *that* would be an advertising campaign that money could not buy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: G. Michaels</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-6/#comment-42082</link>
		<dc:creator>G. Michaels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42082</guid>
		<description>No, I&#039;m asking if they also do it in the US.


&lt;font color=&quot;#ff0000&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Note&lt;/b&gt;: writer of this comment adds absolutely nothing but stalking and personal attacks against readers, as &lt;a href=&quot;http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/25/jose-on-mono/#comment-39320&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;documented here&lt;/a&gt;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I&#8217;m asking if they also do it in the US.</p>
<p><font color="#ff0000"><b>Note</b>: writer of this comment adds absolutely nothing but stalking and personal attacks against readers, as <a href="http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/25/jose-on-mono/#comment-39320" rel="nofollow">documented here</a>.</font></p>
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		<title>By: Ilde Giron</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-6/#comment-42079</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilde Giron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42079</guid>
		<description>@G. Michaels
&quot;Assuming it’s not a forgery, do you have something similar for the US or proof that this is done in the US?&quot;

Are you trying to imply that as long as they don do it in the US, it&#039;s ok with you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@G. Michaels<br />
&#8220;Assuming it’s not a forgery, do you have something similar for the US or proof that this is done in the US?&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you trying to imply that as long as they don do it in the US, it&#8217;s ok with you?</p>
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		<title>By: Abbas Khan M.D.</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-6/#comment-42077</link>
		<dc:creator>Abbas Khan M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42077</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a Doctor. Some doctors do something similar to this. It&#039;s called kickback. They pay other doctors to forward them patients (advertise them). Now my question is that, would you rather get referred to the &quot;BEST&quot; oncologist (cancer doctor) if you had cancer or one that is paying your doctor to refer you to him.

I&#039;m assuming for most people the story changes when something important like your health or life gets involved. Yeah software is not as important as someone&#039;s life but the correct principle is what i was trying to display here.

In the end, the point is you don&#039;t want someone who you trust getting paid by someone to peddle their very cruddy software (or cruddy practice).

-AK</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a Doctor. Some doctors do something similar to this. It&#8217;s called kickback. They pay other doctors to forward them patients (advertise them). Now my question is that, would you rather get referred to the &#8220;BEST&#8221; oncologist (cancer doctor) if you had cancer or one that is paying your doctor to refer you to him.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m assuming for most people the story changes when something important like your health or life gets involved. Yeah software is not as important as someone&#8217;s life but the correct principle is what i was trying to display here.</p>
<p>In the end, the point is you don&#8217;t want someone who you trust getting paid by someone to peddle their very cruddy software (or cruddy practice).</p>
<p>-AK</p>
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		<title>By: G. Michaels</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-6/#comment-42075</link>
		<dc:creator>G. Michaels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42075</guid>
		<description>By the way Roy, you should mention this is in Australia, since the person who &quot;leaked&quot; this to you posts from two different ARIN IP addresses (one from BigPond, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.robtex.com/dns/gex.ncable.net.au.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;these&lt;/a&gt;). Assuming it&#039;s not a forgery, do you have something similar for the US or proof that this is done in the US?


&lt;font color=&quot;#ff0000&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Note&lt;/b&gt;: writer of this comment adds absolutely nothing but stalking and personal attacks against readers, as &lt;a href=&quot;http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/25/jose-on-mono/#comment-39320&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;documented here&lt;/a&gt;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way Roy, you should mention this is in Australia, since the person who &#8220;leaked&#8221; this to you posts from two different ARIN IP addresses (one from BigPond, and <a href="http://www.robtex.com/dns/gex.ncable.net.au.html" rel="nofollow">these</a>). Assuming it&#8217;s not a forgery, do you have something similar for the US or proof that this is done in the US?</p>
<p><font color="#ff0000"><b>Note</b>: writer of this comment adds absolutely nothing but stalking and personal attacks against readers, as <a href="http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/25/jose-on-mono/#comment-39320" rel="nofollow">documented here</a>.</font></p>
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		<title>By: Abe</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-6/#comment-42030</link>
		<dc:creator>Abe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 00:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-42030</guid>
		<description>@Ian,
Consumers normally don&#039;t care but they seriously do care when their pocket book gets hits. 

 I wasn&#039;t talking about the OS, I was talking about all the free/dom software they will get  when running Linux as opposed to the bundle of money they have to pay up for apps when running Windows.

 I thought that was obvious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ian,<br />
Consumers normally don&#8217;t care but they seriously do care when their pocket book gets hits. </p>
<p> I wasn&#8217;t talking about the OS, I was talking about all the free/dom software they will get  when running Linux as opposed to the bundle of money they have to pay up for apps when running Windows.</p>
<p> I thought that was obvious.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-5/#comment-41913</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-41913</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It’s the tangible document you can point to. Something you can show to back up the claim. That’s what this post is giving you. Proof, not conjecture or the probability of guessing correctly. &lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s fine.  Others might be arguing that, but I wasn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It’s the tangible document you can point to. Something you can show to back up the claim. That’s what this post is giving you. Proof, not conjecture or the probability of guessing correctly. </i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s fine.  Others might be arguing that, but I wasn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: pcolon</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-5/#comment-41908</link>
		<dc:creator>pcolon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-41908</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the tangible document you can point to. Something you can show to back up the claim. That&#039;s what this post is giving you. Proof, not conjecture or the probability of guessing correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the tangible document you can point to. Something you can show to back up the claim. That&#8217;s what this post is giving you. Proof, not conjecture or the probability of guessing correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-5/#comment-41902</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-41902</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;No one likes being outright lied to, and should come under more scrutiny than it has. &lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t disagree with any of that.  However, I believe there is a large amount of apathy as far as an operating system goes.  In my professional experience, there&#039;s a healthy number of people that don&#039;t even understand the concept of an operating system, let alone are consciously concerned with Microsoft advertising.  

The way I see it, to get anything changed, the OEMs will have to step up and do something about it or some type of legal issue would be brought up by a consumer advocacy group.  Other than that, everyone who uses a computer will have to collectively realize what&#039;s going on and actually care, which I don&#039;t see happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>No one likes being outright lied to, and should come under more scrutiny than it has. </i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with any of that.  However, I believe there is a large amount of apathy as far as an operating system goes.  In my professional experience, there&#8217;s a healthy number of people that don&#8217;t even understand the concept of an operating system, let alone are consciously concerned with Microsoft advertising.  </p>
<p>The way I see it, to get anything changed, the OEMs will have to step up and do something about it or some type of legal issue would be brought up by a consumer advocacy group.  Other than that, everyone who uses a computer will have to collectively realize what&#8217;s going on and actually care, which I don&#8217;t see happening.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Schestowitz</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-5/#comment-41900</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Schestowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-41900</guid>
		<description>End users don&#039;t always choose their computers. They let geeks (sometimes their parents or children), CIOs or the shops decide for them and equipped with more information, the latter -- not the consumer -- can make informed choices that cull out spurious &#039;recommendations&#039;.

I&#039;ve seen some accusations elsewhere that this post states the obvious, but it&#039;s not the stating; it&#039;s the &lt;em&gt;showing&lt;/em&gt; (of hard evidence).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>End users don&#8217;t always choose their computers. They let geeks (sometimes their parents or children), CIOs or the shops decide for them and equipped with more information, the latter &#8212; not the consumer &#8212; can make informed choices that cull out spurious &#8216;recommendations&#8217;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen some accusations elsewhere that this post states the obvious, but it&#8217;s not the stating; it&#8217;s the <em>showing</em> (of hard evidence).</p>
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		<title>By: RyanT</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-5/#comment-41893</link>
		<dc:creator>RyanT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-41893</guid>
		<description>1. For the most part, consumers don’t care

Yes, they do. No one likes being outright lied to, and should come under more scrutiny than it has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. For the most part, consumers don’t care</p>
<p>Yes, they do. No one likes being outright lied to, and should come under more scrutiny than it has.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-4/#comment-41866</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-41866</guid>
		<description>@Abe,

I think you make a mistake assuming consumers actually care about this.  Educating consumers won&#039;t make any difference at all since:

1.  For the most part, consumers don&#039;t care
2.  It&#039;s the OEMs that are ultimately responsible for doing this, therefore, responsible for shutting it down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Abe,</p>
<p>I think you make a mistake assuming consumers actually care about this.  Educating consumers won&#8217;t make any difference at all since:</p>
<p>1.  For the most part, consumers don&#8217;t care<br />
2.  It&#8217;s the OEMs that are ultimately responsible for doing this, therefore, responsible for shutting it down.</p>
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		<title>By: Abe</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-4/#comment-41861</link>
		<dc:creator>Abe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-41861</guid>
		<description>This practice has been going on for a long time, and it is a good thing that the evidence is in writing this time. The only way this will stop is when the majority of consumers are educated and enlightened about the sleazy marketing, and start taking this issue seriously. The current economic situation will help consumers to see the light and it will back fire on MS &amp; their lackey vendors.

Good work Roy. Publishing this evidence is how an effective way to educate the consumers but non-IT consumers rarely read such articles. Word of mouth should still be used since it is the most effective with the average John/Jane Doe. 

And for that dimwit who said FOSS/Linux guys are jealous, keep thinking that while we change the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This practice has been going on for a long time, and it is a good thing that the evidence is in writing this time. The only way this will stop is when the majority of consumers are educated and enlightened about the sleazy marketing, and start taking this issue seriously. The current economic situation will help consumers to see the light and it will back fire on MS &amp; their lackey vendors.</p>
<p>Good work Roy. Publishing this evidence is how an effective way to educate the consumers but non-IT consumers rarely read such articles. Word of mouth should still be used since it is the most effective with the average John/Jane Doe. </p>
<p>And for that dimwit who said FOSS/Linux guys are jealous, keep thinking that while we change the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-4/#comment-41823</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-41823</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;“Recommends Windows” is incredibly shabby, but the OEMs are party to this too.&lt;/i&gt; - AlexH

This.  The best way this type of activity stops, outside of legal pressure, is when the manufacturers put a stop to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“Recommends Windows” is incredibly shabby, but the OEMs are party to this too.</i> &#8211; AlexH</p>
<p>This.  The best way this type of activity stops, outside of legal pressure, is when the manufacturers put a stop to it.</p>
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		<title>By: phil</title>
		<link>http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/comment-page-4/#comment-41792</link>
		<dc:creator>phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/#comment-41792</guid>
		<description>This kind of adverting is very misleading. Here a company is offering a product that the customer is interested in buying. Rather than seal the deal and take the money, they say &quot;but wait - you are making a mistake! You should really buy ...&quot;.

OK, so why are you offering the other product? Why waste warehouse space on something you don&#039;t think is good?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This kind of adverting is very misleading. Here a company is offering a product that the customer is interested in buying. Rather than seal the deal and take the money, they say &#8220;but wait &#8211; you are making a mistake! You should really buy &#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>OK, so why are you offering the other product? Why waste warehouse space on something you don&#8217;t think is good?</p>
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