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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 19th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:46 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

twitter neighborlee, I’m not liking this Alexander Wolfe dude, especially that last article about free or open.  RMS was right to correct Wolfe – the FSF is about free software, “open source” is a different movement, created mostly because corporate people were afraid of the word “freedom” Dec 19 00:00
schestowitz Haha. ” I’m not liking” Dec 19 00:00
schestowitz You have no idea who this guy is, do you? Dec 19 00:00
schestowitz One of the worse foul-mouthed anti-Linux people.. he stopped about a year ago Dec 19 00:01
twitter no, I’ve only read a few of his articles.  I see that he’s started up again. Dec 19 00:01
twitter “[Stallman is] hung up on how Linux has stolen all the thunder from GNU, and that he must be ticked Linus Torvalds is the face of open source software when he was the guy beating the drums first, and most loudly.” Wolfe is either an idiot or a troll.  You have said he’s a troll before.  Now I believe it. Dec 19 00:02
twitter Stallman has no such concerns. Dec 19 00:02
twitter How other people represent the FSF to the public is a reasonable concern. Dec 19 00:03
twitter I also think that the term “free software” carries more and better meaning than “open source” Dec 19 00:03
schestowitz Here’s the thing Dec 19 00:04
twitter “free software” intentionally invokes the cold war terminology “free world” and does so for the same reasons. Dec 19 00:04
schestowitz To say it quickly, I came to Linux not knowing about GNU Dec 19 00:04
schestowitz For years I heard nothing about the history of it Dec 19 00:04
twitter that is a shame Dec 19 00:04
twitter that’s even worse. Dec 19 00:05
schestowitz A Finnish friend of mine told me it was invented by a guy in Finland (back in 2000 that was) Dec 19 00:05
schestowitz It was only much later than I found out not just about GNU but also about RMS and the history of it all. Dec 19 00:05
schestowitz Now I get to confront the people who hijacked his movement and are proud of it. Dec 19 00:05
schestowitz Along with the thunder they took his funding too Dec 19 00:06
schestowitz And later they use cronies like MOG and Wolfe to attack RMS for ‘daring’ to claim credit Dec 19 00:06
schestowitz I don’t know how RMS keeps so calm, but he went through anger management Dec 19 00:06
twitter It’s easy to be calm when you are right and don’t care so much about money. Dec 19 00:07
schestowitz Nowadays it’s Ubuntu OS+open source, no GNU, no freedom.. maybe some Mono.NET Dec 19 00:07
schestowitz “Idiots can be defeated but they never admit it.” — Dec 19 00:08
schestowitz >Richard Stallman Dec 19 00:08
twitter People who lie can only discredit themselves. Dec 19 00:08
twitter The truth comes out sooner or later. Dec 19 00:08
twitter I’ve got Wolfe in my Vista hype log, he’s soon to make it to my poison pen collection. Dec 19 00:09
twitter Dinner time. Dec 19 00:09
schestowitz Overdue Dec 19 00:09
schestowitz He stopped attacking. Dec 19 00:09
twitter The dude is on the attack now.  I’ll look for old crap too, it gives background to the new crap. Dec 19 00:09
twitter bbl Dec 19 00:10
schestowitz He turned InfoWeek into a circus and sites like Groklaw attacked them for it. Dec 19 00:10
schestowitz Which older chap? They have other anti-FOSS people like Mitch Wagner. Dec 19 00:10
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 19 00:30:32 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovell Dec 19 00:30
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications” [publicly logged] Dec 19 00:30
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 Dec 19 00:30
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel Dec 19 00:30
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz Dec 19 00:30
schestowitz Dec 19 00:18:58 <neighborlee>schestowitz, ive never heard of him correct,,but the point was well taken and  really kinda silly to even discuss I think ,,I mean open source software is free ( of course there is gpl vs lgpl but hey) so I just dont see a necessary distinction here ;)…if its all over grammar I think thats a very silly arguement ;) Dec 19 00:35
schestowitz It’s better to work together, I agree. Dec 19 00:36
schestowitz But to point out the history is important too. Dec 19 00:36
neighborlee yeah Dec 19 00:39
schestowitz Does YouTube work for you? Dec 19 01:50
schestowitz “YouTube will be undergoing scheduled maintenance, starting around 7:00 pm PDT.” The videos are all blank now. Dec 19 01:50
schestowitz Wow. http://www.propeller.com/member… Dec 19 01:58
schestowitz I’ve almost submitted 25,000 items to Netscape/Propeller. I’ll keep on eye on the milestone. Dec 19 01:59
neighborlee youtube..loaded but kinda slowly Dec 19 02:09
schestowitz Still blank over here. Dec 19 02:10
schestowitz Na… it’s totally dead.. like Linspire. Dec 19 02:11
neighborlee lol Dec 19 02:26
neighborlee I sorta hated to see it, liked CNR , but hey it was clear something was wrong, their development was haulted and well forums..yeah , dead .;0- Dec 19 02:27
neighborlee freespire is still on the PIV over here,but I have thought about  replacing it lol Dec 19 02:27
schestowitz Freespire… no word about it. Dec 19 02:27
schestowitz Xandros is being screwed by MS/ASUS now (they are tied up) Dec 19 02:28
neighborlee im not entirely happy with any linux atm..they all have flaws that I think could easily be better if we just all united under one consistent banner..not ubuntu, but something ;))) Dec 19 02:28
neighborlee no great surprise there Dec 19 02:28
neighborlee a shame, it was a decent distro in many ways,,ohwell Dec 19 02:28
schestowitz …You know something? Dec 19 02:28
schestowitz I don’t think I’ve found a SINGLE thing about Freespire since it came to Xandros. Dec 19 02:28
neighborlee yeah Dec 19 02:29
schestowitz This leads me to wondering if it would be just lip service they give it Dec 19 02:29
neighborlee figured as much Dec 19 02:29
schestowitz What would be the market? Ubuntu users that want a different theme from a Microsoft buddy Xandros? Dec 19 02:29
neighborlee its still a shame about CNR though Dec 19 02:29
neighborlee it had promise..like the download.com for linux. Dec 19 02:29
schestowitz CNR is GPLed Dec 19 02:29
schestowitz But Synaptic and other managers replace it easily Dec 19 02:30
schestowitz CNR had its days back in the days Dec 19 02:30
schestowitz You should try Mandriva 2008.1 Dec 19 02:30
schestowitz Very, VERY good Dec 19 02:30
neighborlee synaptic is nice, but cnr had great style I thought..synaptic is kind plain jane Dec 19 02:30
schestowitz KDE4… probably a little too early… give it some more months. Dec 19 02:30
schestowitz CNR is still alive Dec 19 02:31
schestowitz Kevin whats-his-name is there in Xandros working on that, IIRC Dec 19 02:31
neighborlee i still have mixed emotions about mandriva  but I guess at least the default ( kde) has no mono ;0- Dec 19 02:31
neighborlee hmmmm Dec 19 02:31
neighborlee interesting..cnr deserved to succede I thought ;0 Dec 19 02:31
schestowitz What did you find troubling in Mandriva? Dec 19 02:34
neighborlee well same issue as ubuntu :) Dec 19 02:35
neighborlee at least regarding gnome version of livecd ;) Dec 19 02:35
schestowitz Live Cd.. Dec 19 02:35
schestowitz Why don’t you allocate a partition to it? Dec 19 02:35
neighborlee but as fedora..default suggested is kde thus Dec 19 02:36
neighborlee well mandriva kde 2009 is installed right now actualllly,,,, Dec 19 02:36
schestowitz Very good. Dec 19 02:36
neighborlee I see it as a lesser evil ;) Dec 19 02:36
schestowitz If the alt+f2 thing annoys you.. Dec 19 02:36
schestowitz Then get a plasmoid or traslucent app that’s a CLI Dec 19 02:36
neighborlee well it just surprised me Dec 19 02:36
schestowitz Then you just need to hover it and type Dec 19 02:37
schestowitz What I do is I surround myself in side of the cube (8 dual-heads). Some of them have Konsoles in them, Dec 19 02:37
neighborlee how will a plasmoid help..admittedly I dont know much about them Dec 19 02:38
schestowitz I live ‘inside’ the cube, but it’s translucent, so I see Zermatt through the cube when switching. Dec 19 02:38
neighborlee eek gad ;)) 8 huh ;) Dec 19 02:38
neighborlee never messed with cube much reallly though its kinda cool Dec 19 02:39
schestowitz Put Konsole in desktop 2 Dec 19 02:39
schestowitz Then, hit CTRL+F2 or whatever for prompt Dec 19 02:39
schestowitz I think CTRL+F2 is something you need to set up manually. It’s one of the first thing I do (key-bindings) Dec 19 02:39
neighborlee well I do alot of development anyway so I need konsole open regadless..ctrl-A2 is just handy for freinds that like linux but not some of the frustration ;) Dec 19 02:39
neighborlee it works fine in most distros, yet fedora is one that excludes gksu or gnomesu from default install which I find odd..its kinda more of the same dumbing down linus talked about…. Dec 19 02:40
neighborlee smple is fine, but dont tie my  hands Dec 19 02:41
neighborlee simple Dec 19 02:41
neighborlee however …I always liked mandriva for their slick urmpf(i) tools Dec 19 02:41
neighborlee fedora makes it nuts to find stuff compared to Fedora 9 …mandriva is the only one that makes it so nice and simple Dec 19 02:42
schestowitz They just need awareness. Dec 19 02:43
neighborlee yea Dec 19 02:43
schestowitz Maybe a $300 million marketing campaign like Apple’s? Dec 19 02:44
neighborlee :)) Dec 19 02:44
schestowitz Spinning cubes, shiny toys and a skinny man that promises the moon Dec 19 02:44
neighborlee lol Dec 19 02:44
schestowitz Anyway, 3AM here. Dec 19 02:44
schestowitz Bedtime, cya tomorrow Dec 19 02:45
neighborlee ah yes..ok cu ;0-0 Dec 19 02:45
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schestowitz Morning. Dec 19 09:04
kentma hi Dec 19 09:22
MinceR r4wr Dec 19 09:24
*neighborlee has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Dec 19 09:44
schestowitz Down they go… http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/12/18… Dec 19 09:47
schestowitz Oracle profits fall: Oracle Profits Drop Slightly on Strong US Dollar < http://www.pcworld.com/article/155747/oracle_profits… > Dec 19 10:13
schestowitz DOJ Files Antitrust Lawsuit Against Microsemi <http://www.pcworld.com/article/155757/doj_f… > Dec 19 10:13
schestowitz “No, it doesn’t include openSUSE. Take a look at this: http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS < http://news.opensuse.org/2008/12/… > Dec 19 10:16
schestowitz http://www.pcworld.com/article/155738/explorer… IDG still does not know the difference between hacker and cracker Dec 19 10:20
schestowitz China taking over the world? http://www.pcworld.com/article/155726/positivo_re… Dec 19 10:21
schestowitz Food Stamps hit record high in Oregon < http://technocrat.net/d/2008/12/18/55706 > As Beranger said yesterday < http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&2008/1… >, greatest nation under the sun. Dec 19 10:25
schestowitz Reinventing the dishwasher.. poorly. http://www.deviceguru.com/robotic-arm-… Dec 19 10:28
schestowitz Chinese spy scare sours Australia’s plans for nationwide broadband < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/18/hu… >. Funny picture. Dec 19 10:33
schestowitz http://www.osnews.com/thread?340742 “Dude, do you have a double personality? That comment you wrote, which got modded down, looked an awful lot like a Novell-hating comment, and now you say the Novell haters modded you down? I’m betting you actually got modded down by people who believed you were irrationally hating on Novell. Either that, or you were intending to be sarcastic and it didn’t come across that way.” Dec 19 11:12
schestowitz “Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if the deal between Microsoft and Novell didnt cover OpenSuse. But I don’t know for sure.” http://www.newmobilecomputing.com/thread?340754 Dec 19 11:20
trmanco pff Dec 19 11:22
trmanco 12/100 on acid3 Dec 19 11:22
trmanco well done Microsoft Dec 19 11:22
trmanco with IE8, no evolution since IE6 or IE7 since they have the same acid3 score Dec 19 11:24
schestowitz It has other feature. Dec 19 11:25
schestowitz Like being bundled Dec 19 11:26
trmanco and random features Dec 19 11:27
trmanco http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&… Dec 19 11:28
trmanco Java Performance: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows Vista Dec 19 11:28
schestowitz “Well, Java on Ubuntu was pretty much the hands-down winner compared to Microsoft Windows Vista Premium SP1. “ Dec 19 11:29
*schestowitz watches chair flying Dec 19 11:30
*trmanco tries dodge schestowitz’s chair Dec 19 11:30
trmanco :| Dec 19 11:30
trmanco to* Dec 19 11:30
trmanco http://osnews.com/img/20645/1.png Dec 19 11:31
schestowitz No, it comes from northwestern America Dec 19 11:31
schestowitz In’t that from MICROSOFT.ZDNET.COM? Dec 19 11:31
trmanco don’t know Dec 19 11:32
trmanco I saw it on osnews Dec 19 11:32
schestowitz I think it was. Dec 19 11:32
trmanco but the point is that I don’t see improvements in 7 Dec 19 11:32
schestowitz No, Vista7 is to Vista what Ubuntu 8.04.1 is to 8.04 :-) Dec 19 11:36
trmanco yeah, I agree with that Dec 19 11:36
schestowitz Feiseven. Dec 19 11:41
trmanco Firefox 3.1 Beta 2 on Linux uses less memory: http://blog.karlt.net/2008/12/firefox-31-beta-2-o… Dec 19 12:04
schestowitz Cool! Dec 19 12:04
trmanco hmm, I didn’t know that Qt (the widgets) was pronounces cute Dec 19 12:08
trmanco I just learned something today Dec 19 12:08
schestowitz I only found out some years ago. I said Que Tee beforehand. Dec 19 12:19
schestowitz YouTube is not working for me since the maintenance they did last night. Is it just me? Dec 19 12:24
trmanco works here Dec 19 12:24
schestowitz Boycott Apple launched: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/blog/1200 Dec 19 12:24
schestowitz Hmmm… it works in Konqueror and Not FF Dec 19 12:26
schestowitz Maybe because of greasemonkey. Maybe they blocked it. Dec 19 12:26
trmanco I’m using FF 3.0.5 btw Dec 19 12:26
schestowitz Hmm.. no.. Dec 19 12:28
schestowitz Metacafe works Dec 19 12:32
schestowitz http://video.google.com/ works (With embedded YouTube) Dec 19 12:33
schestowitz I could access it via Googlevideo: http://video.google.com/videosearch?… Dec 19 12:33
schestowitz I’m guessing that Google did maintainance to black some scripting. Dec 19 12:33
schestowitz *block Dec 19 12:33
trmanco I think they did Dec 19 12:34
trmanco I read this somewhere Dec 19 12:34
schestowitz Ahhhhhh…… Dec 19 12:35
schestowitz Damn. Dec 19 12:35
schestowitz They broke PyTube half a year ago.. I used to use that. Dec 19 12:35
schestowitz I’m sure someone will rev-engineer something for a hack soon. Dec 19 12:35
*trmanco lunch time Dec 19 12:36
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schestowitz The Asay idiot is again attacking Linux: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3… Dec 19 13:21
schestowitz What’s his source? An anti-Linux guy from ‘IT’ wire. Dec 19 13:22
schestowitz Here is a Vista ‘advert’ disguised in the headline “Hasta La Vista, Microsoft Vista” http://www.toptechnews.com/story.xhtml?… Dec 19 13:25
schestowitz I thought about just tossing ITwire into the wastebasket after so much trolling from there recently (it’s deliberate). They carry on with the Microsoft tune: “computer=desktop, therefore Linux is not important.” Dec 19 13:28
schestowitz I’ll write about this quickly. Dec 19 13:43
schestowitz “You are wrong. With my computer, XP doesn’t even give me a wired connection out of the box so how can i download the drivers? I get your point, I’m just saying that linux supports more hardware out of the box which is what your argument was about.” http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_vs_XP Dec 19 14:21
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trmanco w00t Dec 19 14:42
trmanco winehq has a new design Dec 19 14:42
trmanco :O Dec 19 14:42
schestowitz I was just writing about them Dec 19 14:47
schestowitz Give me 2 minutes Dec 19 14:47
trmanco but how long has the design been up? Dec 19 14:50
trmanco I haven’t visited winehq for over a week Dec 19 14:50
schestowitz 2 days+ Dec 19 14:51
trmanco cool Dec 19 14:51
zoobab http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/en/document/7732 Dec 19 14:55
zoobab contributions published Dec 19 14:55
zoobab Microsoft, ACT, CompTIA and al Dec 19 14:55
schestowitz Wine responds to winning a “Most Likely to Be Ambiguously and Baselessly Accused of Patent Violation” award: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/19/micr… Dec 19 14:56
trmanco http://sourceforge.net/community… Dec 19 14:59
schestowitz I’ve just heard from Asay about a correction that was not needed. I also told him about the OSBC. I didn’t do it to provoke. I was genuinely concerned… MS is there. Dec 19 14:59
schestowitz trmanco: the rest joined _much_ later. Dec 19 15:00
trmanco LOL Dec 19 15:00
schestowitz zoobab: BSA too Dec 19 15:01
schestowitz Heh. Glyn Moody Dec 19 15:01
schestowitz ACT writes: “Promotion of Open Source is Outside the Scope of this Framework” (pp. 2) Dec 19 15:02
zoobab Open Standards Dec 19 15:18
zoobab Red Hat strongly believes that fostering open standards and encouraging innovation decreases Dec 19 15:18
zoobab dependence on a single suite of applications and on a single vendor. Therefore, Red Hat Dec 19 15:18
zoobab supports the adoption and promotion of open standards that are available free from any licensing, Dec 19 15:19
zoobab royalty payments, or other restrictions, and that are implementable by multiple vendors on Dec 19 15:19
zoobab multiple platforms. Ideally, such standards are developed through a transparent and vendor- Dec 19 15:19
zoobab neutral process. Red Hat is very pleased that the EIF v2.0 adopts these same principles regarding Dec 19 15:19
zoobab open standards. The company also commends the IDABC for resisting pressure to broaden its Dec 19 15:19
zoobab definition of “open” standards to include standards that contain intellectual property for which a Dec 19 15:19
zoobab developer must pay a royalty. Such standards, which generally benefit only one proprietary Dec 19 15:19
zoobab vendor, do not meet the generally accepted definition of “openness” and should not be Dec 19 15:19
zoobab promulgated as such. Dec 19 15:19
schestowitz zoobab: I’ll have a post in 2 minutes Dec 19 15:19
zoobab The proposed exclusion of non-royalty free standards will slow down innovation because R&D Dec 19 15:22
zoobab investments can no longer be earned back. This is bad for society ­ consumers and public authorities Dec 19 15:22
zoobab alike ­ and for the economy at large. It will hurt our region hardest as proximity to (public authority) Dec 19 15:23
zoobab customers is an advantage. It should not be forgotten that if royalty-free standards are imposed, Dec 19 15:23
zoobab European investors in R&D will have to give royalty-free licenses to non-European competitors, which Dec 19 15:23
zoobab is difficult to reconcile with the EU’s Lisbon objectives. Dec 19 15:23
schestowitz Microsoft, along with ACT, CompTIA and the BSA, are working to change Europe’s policy on standards: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/19/microsof… Dec 19 15:23
schestowitz zoobab: what’s the latter coming from? Dec 19 15:24
schestowitz I’ve tried to spread the word: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_Paid_Lobbyi… Dec 19 15:26
zoobab I think it is a Microsoft proxy: Dec 19 15:28
zoobab Or, l’APVF estime que le projet de texte soulève des interrogations majeures dont en Dec 19 15:28
zoobab particulier une vision de l’interopérabilité reposant exclusivement sur des standards ouverts, Dec 19 15:28
zoobab sans doute pertinente d’un point de vue des principes, mais qui peut aussi être atteinte par Dec 19 15:28
zoobab d’autres méthodes comme encourager les détenteurs de propriété intellectuelle à prendre Dec 19 15:28
zoobab part au développement des standards ouverts, en particulier en donnant accès à leur Dec 19 15:28
zoobab technologie (même si cela se fait sous des termes de licence de type RAND/Raisonnable Dec 19 15:28
zoobab and Non Discriminatory ­ Raisonnable et non Discriminatoire). Dec 19 15:28
zoobab Les termes RAND recherchent un équilibre entre les intérêts des titulaires de droits et les Dec 19 15:28
zoobab licenciés. Or c’est précisément cet équilibre qui encourage et stimule l’innovation et par Dec 19 15:28
zoobab conséquent l’essor économique dans chaque collectivités locales de l’Union. Dec 19 15:28
schestowitz Which one is it? Dec 19 15:30
schestowitz Glyn Moody: “Leaving aside the fact that software patents “as such” are not, in any Dec 19 15:33
schestowitz case, admissible in Europe, this is a fundamental issue. Standards Dec 19 15:33
schestowitz that depend on patents are not compatible with open source unless Dec 19 15:33
schestowitz royalty-free licences are granted irrevocably. I therefore urge the Dec 19 15:33
schestowitz European Commission not to compromise on this point, since doing so Dec 19 15:33
schestowitz would vitiate the creation of a playing-field that is level for all – Dec 19 15:33
schestowitz and not just those with deep pockets – and nullify the entire point of Dec 19 15:33
schestowitz the interoperability framework. There is no halfway house here.” Dec 19 15:33
zoobab http://scideralle.org/Les-maires-courroies-de.h… Dec 19 15:34
schestowitz “Ce travail sur l’image, Bill Gates et Microsoft l’ont commencé, ou tout au moins l’ont mondialisé, avec la création de la Fondation Bill & Melinda Gates. Le nom de Bill Gates étant très fortement connoté avec celui de son entreprise, l’empathie de son action « désintéressée » rejaillit sur l’image de son entreprise auprès du public.” Dec 19 15:35
schestowitz Google translate: ” This work on the image, Bill Gates and Microsoft have begun, or at least have globalized, with the creation of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Le nom de Bill Gates étant très fortement connoté avec celui de son entreprise, l’empathie de son action « désintéressée » rejaillit sur l’image de son entreprise auprès du public. The name of Bill Gates being very strong with that of his company, empath Dec 19 15:36
schestowitz y for its action “disinterested” affects the image of his company to the public.” Dec 19 15:36
zoobab standard”. Europe has been strongly in favor of the use of ISO standards, but a Dec 19 15:37
zoobab lot of people doubt if ISO is the best place for software standardization. They are Dec 19 15:37
zoobab more impressed by the way bodies like IETF, W3C, IEEE, do the job. Dec 19 15:37
schestowitz Who write this, zoobab? Dec 19 15:39
schestowitz *wrote Dec 19 15:39
zoobab The Draft EIF v2 proposed to redefine “open standards” in a way that devalues intellectual Dec 19 15:41
zoobab property in standards and discourages intellectual property creators from introducing their Dec 19 15:41
zoobab innovative technology. The EIF v2 have adopted a new definition of “open standards, it Dec 19 15:41
zoobab should be a definition with European Commission standardisation policy and consistent with Dec 19 15:41
zoobab ISO. Dec 19 15:41
zoobab   a. Standards policies respect the balance of interests of intellectual property creators and Dec 19 15:41
zoobab      users to encourage investment in and dissemination of innovative technology. Dec 19 15:41
zoobab   b. RAND-based standards are available to all users, including vendors relying on the open Dec 19 15:41
zoobab      source software business model. The EIF v2 revaluating “open standards” assumes that Dec 19 15:41
zoobab      interoperability cannot be based on RAND-based standards. Dec 19 15:41
zoobab Dec 19 15:41
zoobab HollandOpen for the first quote Dec 19 15:41
zoobab I just added here: Dec 19 15:41
zoobab http://www.noooxml.org/start Dec 19 15:41
schestowitz Thanks. Dec 19 15:41
schestowitz What’s the French  group called? Dec 19 15:42
schestowitz Find links to Sarko :-p Dec 19 15:42
zoobab http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t-114342/europa:… Dec 19 15:44
zoobab “RAND-based standards are available to all users, including vendors relying on the open source software business model.” Dec 19 15:44
zoobab As other stakeholders have noted ­ including EICTA, whose submission to the Commission Dec 19 15:46
zoobab is attached to this letter ­ most developers of open standards have intellectual property Dec 19 15:46
zoobab policies that could fail to satisfy the above criteria. The major standards bodies have policies Dec 19 15:46
zoobab that permit IPR holders to license any patents essential to the standard under fair, Dec 19 15:46
zoobab reasonable and non-discriminatory (“FRAND”) terms that would not satisfy the requirements Dec 19 15:46
zoobab of the EIF. Leading standards developed by bodies generally recognised as open standards Dec 19 15:46
zoobab developers ­ such as OASIS, W3C, IETF, IEEE, ETSI, ISO, IEC and ITU ­ would not in fact Dec 19 15:46
zoobab be “open” under the EIF criteria. Dec 19 15:46
zoobab Intellecy UK, EICTA members Dec 19 15:46
schestowitz http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_re… Dec 19 15:48
twitter RAND is evil bullshit. Dec 19 15:50
zoobab good ODF OOXML troll: Dec 19 15:50
zoobab http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/servlets/Doc?id=31957 Dec 19 15:50
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schestowitz I g2g Dec 19 15:53
schestowitz Blech Dec 19 15:54
schestowitz marbux and chums Dec 19 15:54
schestowitz bbl Dec 19 15:54
zoobab http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum… Dec 19 15:54
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trmanco http://www.davep.org/emacs/boxquote.el Dec 19 16:14
twitter ” due to a recent spate of mishaps, it sure looks like that when it comes to the desktop and end-user side of things, Microsoft’s days may be numbered.” http://www.crn.com/software/212501235 Dec 19 16:35
*Omar87 (n=omar@ has joined #boycottnovell Dec 19 16:44
Omar87 Hi all Dec 19 16:44
trmanco Gates Foundation Looks to Use Funds to Improve Libraries: http://www.dailytech.com/Gates+Foundation+Looks+… Dec 19 16:52
twitter ZDnet notices Astroturf, blames “loud open source advocates”  http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-sourc… Dec 19 17:00
twitter My keyboard is louder then most, but the words on your browser are only as loud as your imagination makes them. Dec 19 17:01
trmanco IE8 and IE7 Mitigations Failed Against the MSHTML.DLL Critical Exploits: http://news.softpedia.com/news/IE8-and-IE7-Mitig… Dec 19 17:01
twitter horrible story all around http://globalnation.inquirer.net/news/breaking… Dec 19 17:09
twitter Intel cow-taus to M$ on graphics, http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/ope… Dec 19 17:13
twitter Want to bet the next batch of Intel graphics chips don’t come with GPL’d drivers? Dec 19 17:13
twitter Notice how they also threaten Vista logos if hardware is not Vista 7 “certified” Dec 19 17:14
twitter Why do they bother with this useless revocation threat?  No one wants Vista. Dec 19 17:15
twitter I take it back about Intel.  They seem to have provided documentation http://www.x.org/docs/intel/VOL_1_graphic… [warning, 500 page pdf] Dec 19 17:17
twitter What are “negative earnings” ? http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/121908-m… Dec 19 17:23
trmanco Open source success due to Microsoft, claims report: http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/op… Dec 19 17:25
trmanco negative earnings… lets say you have earned -$500 :-P Dec 19 17:25
twitter forget it, the article was confused and full of M$ nonsense. Dec 19 17:26
twitter trolling for page hits with M$ apologies dressed as bad news, ie reality. Dec 19 17:27
twitter This article says Vista breaks DHCP, http://www.itworld.com/small-business/59402/vis… Dec 19 17:34
twitter Basically, Vista is still not ready.  http://www.itworld.com/small-business/… Dec 19 17:36
twitter EA cutting 2000 jobs.  http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/19/news/companies… Dec 19 18:07
twitter Does M$ own part of them? Dec 19 18:07
twitter err, that’s 1,000 jobs for EA and 1,000 jobs for another company. Dec 19 18:09
twitter business week slogs them http://www.businessweek.com/technology/con… Dec 19 18:11
*neighborlee has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Dec 19 18:26
PetoKraus right, so, is iPlayer open-source? Dec 19 18:37
PetoKraus well, good joke! Dec 19 18:47
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@c-24-16-17-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Dec 19 19:50
neighborlee schestowitz: I think Jo just sunk to a new alltime low..that or he has his ‘kid’ type it for him? and forget to mention things like ‘poopie’ dont lend themsleves to anyone being taken serious  :) Dec 19 19:51
neighborlee schestowitz: I gotta say Im actually surprised by this level of childishness Dec 19 19:56
neighborlee oh well ; Dec 19 19:56
neighborlee :) Dec 19 19:56
*cj (n=cjac@ has joined #boycottnovell Dec 19 20:03
cj wow s<tab> isn’t here!? Dec 19 20:03
cj oh, there he is.  he’s got a @ :) Dec 19 20:03
cj schestowitz: I hear you’re getting comments from tim@oreilly.com on your blog! Dec 19 20:03
neighborlee lol Dec 19 20:29
neighborlee I mean about the @ part ;) Dec 19 20:29
neighborlee Jo continues to embarrase himself and the mono supporters ;) Dec 19 20:32
neighborlee they cant debate, so they just descend into childishness. Dec 19 20:32
neighborlee imagine that. Dec 19 20:32
schestowitz I saw that nail in coffin article earlier, twitter Dec 19 20:40
schestowitz Ha. Intel is getting to bed with collusion partner against, using drivers. Dec 19 20:45
schestowitz Negative earnings probably means lower than expectations probably. Dec 19 20:47
*schestowitz been out drinking for several hours, so pardon the typos. Dec 19 20:47
schestowitz John E. Dunn is talking BS Dec 19 20:49
schestowitz The report from Saugatuck Technology, which I wrote about in BN yesterday, is not talking about Microsoft Dec 19 20:49
schestowitz They just try to make a crazy headline: “Open source success due to Microsoft, claims report” Dec 19 20:49
schestowitz twitter: just 2000 at EA. I’ll drin kto that. Welcome to 2009. Dec 19 20:50
schestowitz The worse will come in January, post-xmas Dec 19 20:50
schestowitz PetoKraus: iPlayer is still a  bad scam Dec 19 20:52
schestowitz neighborlee: where? Comments? I need to catch yo. Dec 19 20:52
schestowitz *up Dec 19 20:52
schestowitz Hey, cj Dec 19 20:53
schestowitz neighborlee: Jo is tossing crap all over BN to scare others away Dec 19 20:53
schestowitz I’m not sure BW slogs EA…. they just can’t sell much. BW is still Wintel press nonetheless. Dec 19 20:54
schestowitz neighborlee: what do you know about Moulette? Dec 19 20:56
neighborlee schestowitz: well he’s not getting what he was after.he is just  making himself look really childish, and doing zero for his side of the debate.. Dec 19 20:56
neighborlee schestowitz: talk about mono fodder Dec 19 20:57
neighborlee schestowitz: nothing about it Dec 19 20:57
neighborlee checking Dec 19 20:57
neighborlee well google isn’t giving me much..whatcha talkin about ;) Dec 19 21:01
schestowitz Never mind, I was asked to keep it quiet. Dec 19 21:07
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/23/mono-… Dec 19 21:08
*kentma has quit (“Leaving.”) Dec 19 21:13
schestowitz Hehe. I’ve been invited to Las Vegas for a conference. Dec 19 21:14
schestowitz Flights and all covered… but I have to pass. Dec 19 21:14
twitter Jo is a heckler.  Anyone who looks him up can see that. Dec 19 21:16
schestowitz Not just in BNM? Dec 19 21:17
schestowitz BN? Dec 19 21:17
schestowitz Bah. I can’t type Dec 19 21:17
schestowitz But I think that I type faster when I’m drunk Dec 19 21:17
schestowitz It turns out that other people explore the Mono isssue too Dec 19 21:18
schestowitz See http://www.itwire.com/content/vi… Dec 19 21:18
twitter I don’t know Jo Shills outside of BN, but that’s more than enough. Dec 19 21:18
schestowitz Yes, he claims it’s cause we cover mono Dec 19 21:19
neighborlee schestowitz: ah ok ;)) Dec 19 21:19
twitter The hecklers are here to stink the place up.  The reasons are not as important as what they actually do. Dec 19 21:20
schestowitz About that conference, I told that “I don’t feel as though I would be safe among a crowd that I have been criticising, but I appreciate your offer enormously and will continue to cover you in a friendly fashion.” Dec 19 21:20
schestowitz It’s the people who are partner of Novell, whom I have no problems with Dec 19 21:20
schestowitz I mentioned them sometimes by accident. Dec 19 21:21
schestowitz It’s amazing how many people out there work with Novell while quietly  disagreeing with them,. Dec 19 21:22
schestowitz I understand that Ron H was doing what he did for his shareholder, but I think he missed an opportunity for community support. Dec 19 21:22
schestowitz Some people stayed with the community. Even Open-Xchange are OK, despite the SUSE-iish roots. Dec 19 21:23
schestowitz Hm………….. http://www.newsweek.com/id/171558 ……… MSNBC!! Newsweek is related to MS? And they hired anti-Linux anti-Apple Dan Lyons?? Dec 19 21:25
neighborlee Cant’ blame someone for staying with a job that pays if thats the case, but yeah to quietly speak out while doing so proves loyalty to linux ideals and thats pretty neat. Dec 19 21:26
neighborlee schestowitz: I guesss like Miguel they had something desireable , god knows what that is though o_0 Dec 19 21:26
schestowitz Desirable? What does Miguel have? Dec 19 21:26
schestowitz Good news for the gnus… http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS91… … desktops down… phones up.. and Windows Mobile is tanking. Dec 19 21:27
twitter RMS recommends people avoid travel to the US but a conference might be worth going to.  Think about it a while. Dec 19 21:28
twitter MSFT down, markets up.  ha ha Dec 19 21:28
schestowitz No, I can’t Dec 19 21:28
schestowitz Novell people would be there. Dec 19 21:28
schestowitz RonH will give a keynote, I think Dec 19 21:28
schestowitz Gah. The Microsoft Jack thing… He has unethical history. Dec 19 21:29
schestowitz The MAFIAA moves to plan B : http://www.pcworld.com/article/155769/riaa_… Dec 19 21:30
twitter It makes sense to avoid even the appearance of support to those people. Dec 19 21:30
schestowitz I remember when Michael Larabel asked me to come to FOSDEM Dec 19 21:31
schestowitz It’s filled with Novell people,  so I was like”WTF?” Dec 19 21:31
schestowitz Actually, zoobab suggested that I come to this year’s (in Belgium). Dec 19 21:31
schestowitz @ zoobab  US Trade Panel to Investigate Semiconductor Patent Complaint < http://www.pcworld.com/article/155773/us_trade… > Dec 19 21:32
twitter Nothing of interest to learn, reputation to lose.  Sounds like good reasoning to me. Dec 19 21:34
schestowitz What do you mean? Dec 19 21:35
schestowitz http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/20… Dec 19 21:46
schestowitz Wage slavery: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-383… Dec 19 21:46
twitter I mean you don’t want to go.  There’s nothing good for you and plenty that can be bad. Dec 19 22:00
schestowitz http://www.linux.com/feature/155881 “Still, I found myself disappointed by openSUSE’s jumping a bit too hard and fast onto the ease-of-use bandwagon.” Dec 19 22:01
schestowitz Ouch. Coming from Susan, who loves OpenSUSE/Novell much of the time. Let’s see the comments. Dec 19 22:01
neighborlee schestowitz: sweeet about windows mobile..go android ;) Dec 19 22:02
schestowitz Miguel brings new poison to teh Lunix: http://tirania.org/blog/archi… Dec 19 22:03
neighborlee last comment is  revealing though Dec 19 22:10
schestowitz Which? Dec 19 22:11
schestowitz http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=909 Dec 19 22:13
schestowitz Apple sued in Apple TV wireless audio patent clash: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12/19/… Dec 19 22:18
schestowitz “The named US patents are 7,130,616, 7,142,934, 7,142,935, and 7,167,765, but we note that the final three are all headed ‘Audio converter device and method for using the same’, have the same abstract and are therefore clearly variations on a theme.” Dec 19 22:18
schestowitz Meery xmas..  Polaroid files for Chapter 11  < http://edition.cnn.com/2008/TECH/12/19/po… >. Jan 2009 will be even more interesting I hear.. Dec 19 22:20
neighborlee no great surprise o_0 Dec 19 22:20
neighborlee http://lists.debian.org/debian-deve… < ok, thats just weird… Dec 19 22:20
schestowitz People use digital cameras, so patent-collecting time is over Dec 19 22:20
neighborlee and I thought i’d seen it all….SIGH Dec 19 22:20
schestowitz http://np237.livejournal.com/17716.html Dec 19 22:22
neighborlee yup I know.,,that is what I was referring to o_0 Dec 19 22:23
schestowitz Black metal/horror/whatever does not mix with humour. Dec 19 22:23
neighborlee I cant imagine under what circumstances  posting something like that could be taken as anywhere near  ‘ok’ o_0 Dec 19 22:24
neighborlee http://lists.debian.org/deb… < I think that   kinda says it all ;)LOL Dec 19 22:25
twitter not LOL, trashy.  I hope they boot the person who wrote that. Dec 19 22:28
twitter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb vindicated http://www.counterpunch.org/ciadrugs.html Dec 19 22:30
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Dec 19 22:30
neighborlee twitter: me too Dec 19 22:30
neighborlee twitter: humor has its place but that certainly wasn’t it o_0 Dec 19 22:30
schestowitz “That being said — had I not cared immensely about the future of openSUSE, I’d probably just format my computers with Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex and say goodbye.” http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9354 Dec 19 22:34
schestowitz Why would he care about Novell’s plot? Because he works for IBM? Dec 19 22:34
schestowitz Debian Secretary Quits Over Lenny Release Vote < http://www.itwire.com/conten… > Dec 19 22:37
neighborlee unbelieveable Dec 19 22:42
neighborlee first gentoo has devleoper fun going on, now debian..are people eating something bad lately ? ;) Dec 19 22:43
*Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection) Dec 19 22:43
twitter Looks like they have been trolled hard.  Don’t trust anyone with a “live journal” Dec 19 22:46
twitter crazy talk http://np237.livejournal.com/ Dec 19 22:47
schestowitz I bet Ubuntu loses users to other distros Dec 19 22:47
neighborlee hope so Dec 19 22:47
twitter Ubuntu users won’t see any of this crap. Dec 19 22:48
neighborlee no distro deserves it more ;) Dec 19 22:48
schestowitz Not much Ubuntu news recently (part week). I think they concentrate too much on monetisation(C), i.e. Ubuntu mobile/remix/whatever. Dec 19 22:48
schestowitz I’m not sure if 8.10 is neglect of progress Dec 19 22:48
schestowitz Nothing loses like Windows though Dec 19 22:48
twitter My /. hecklers promised me they were infiltrating Debian.  I think the problem is self limiting. Dec 19 22:48
schestowitz On Symbian on mobile.. Dec 19 22:49
schestowitz Interesting figures: http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2008/12/1… Dec 19 22:51
twitter nice pictures Dec 19 22:55
neighborlee odd indeed Dec 19 22:57
neighborlee funding for 2008,,imagine that  :( Dec 19 22:57
schestowitz Joe Peterson, a vice president at Microsoft, is leaving: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/19/joe… Dec 19 23:03
schestowitz More on another departure: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micro… Dec 19 23:07
schestowitz “How many general managers, vice-presidents, and senior vice-presidents does it take exactly to spend BILLIONS of dollars, lose 50% of your share in just two years, and still be unprofitable?” Dec 19 23:08
schestowitz “Failed miserably yet has another cushy job lined up ..Must be that “Goldberg” name.” Dec 19 23:08
schestowitz Goblin out to see this blog’s blogroll… all the usual shills (or Microsoft Movement) is there, ActiveWin included Dec 19 23:09
neighborlee lol Dec 19 23:12
schestowitz It’s disgusting, not funny. It’s like some kind of a lotting group that cites one another to harm people’s rights. Microsoft was called “Criminals” by Judge Jackson. Dec 19 23:21
neighborlee http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2… < LOL Dec 19 23:24
neighborlee Sorry but Debian is not a men’s club and we’re not their “chicks”. Dec 19 23:25
neighborlee how sad she actuallly was put in a position of feeling that way… Dec 19 23:25
neighborlee makes gentoo issues look silly by comparison ;) Dec 19 23:26
neighborlee also kinda makes me feel glad im using mandriva Dec 19 23:26
schestowitz Death To The Embargo < http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/17/de… > Dec 19 23:26
neighborlee o_0 Dec 19 23:26
schestowitz DebbiieIan. Dec 19 23:27
schestowitz Should accommodate both Dec 19 23:27
*macabe has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Dec 19 23:56
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