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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 19th, 2008

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twitterneighborlee, I'm not liking this Alexander Wolfe dude, especially that last article about free or open.  RMS was right to correct Wolfe - the FSF is about free software, "open source" is a different movement, created mostly because corporate people were afraid of the word "freedom"Dec 19 00:00
schestowitzHaha. " I'm not liking"Dec 19 00:00
schestowitzYou have no idea who this guy is, do you?Dec 19 00:00
schestowitzOne of the worse foul-mouthed anti-Linux people.. he stopped about a year agoDec 19 00:01
twitterno, I've only read a few of his articles.  I see that he's started up again.Dec 19 00:01
twitter"[Stallman is] hung up on how Linux has stolen all the thunder from GNU, and that he must be ticked Linus Torvalds is the face of open source software when he was the guy beating the drums first, and most loudly." Wolfe is either an idiot or a troll.  You have said he's a troll before.  Now I believe it.Dec 19 00:02
twitterStallman has no such concerns.Dec 19 00:02
twitterHow other people represent the FSF to the public is a reasonable concern.Dec 19 00:03
twitterI also think that the term "free software" carries more and better meaning than "open source"Dec 19 00:03
schestowitzHere's the thingDec 19 00:04
twitter"free software" intentionally invokes the cold war terminology "free world" and does so for the same reasons.Dec 19 00:04
schestowitzTo say it quickly, I came to Linux not knowing about GNUDec 19 00:04
schestowitzFor years I heard nothing about the history of itDec 19 00:04
twitterthat is a shameDec 19 00:04
twitterthat's even worse.Dec 19 00:05
schestowitzA Finnish friend of mine told me it was invented by a guy in Finland (back in 2000 that was)Dec 19 00:05
schestowitzIt was only much later than I found out not just about GNU but also about RMS and the history of it all.Dec 19 00:05
schestowitzNow I get to confront the people who hijacked his movement and are proud of it.Dec 19 00:05
schestowitzAlong with the thunder they took his funding tooDec 19 00:06
schestowitzAnd later they use cronies like MOG and Wolfe to attack RMS for 'daring' to claim creditDec 19 00:06
schestowitzI don't know how RMS keeps so calm, but he went through anger managementDec 19 00:06
twitterIt's easy to be calm when you are right and don't care so much about money.Dec 19 00:07
schestowitzNowadays it's Ubuntu OS+open source, no GNU, no freedom.. maybe some Mono.NETDec 19 00:07
schestowitz"Idiots can be defeated but they never admit it." -- Dec 19 00:08
schestowitz>Richard StallmanDec 19 00:08
twitterPeople who lie can only discredit themselves.Dec 19 00:08
twitterThe truth comes out sooner or later.Dec 19 00:08
twitterI've got Wolfe in my Vista hype log, he's soon to make it to my poison pen collection.Dec 19 00:09
twitterDinner time.Dec 19 00:09
schestowitzOverdueDec 19 00:09
schestowitzHe stopped attacking.Dec 19 00:09
twitterThe dude is on the attack now.  I'll look for old crap too, it gives background to the new crap.Dec 19 00:09
twitterbblDec 19 00:10
schestowitzHe turned InfoWeek into a circus and sites like Groklaw attacked them for it.Dec 19 00:10
schestowitzWhich older chap? They have other anti-FOSS people like Mitch Wagner.Dec 19 00:10
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 19 00:30:32 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovellDec 19 00:30
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]Dec 19 00:30
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008Dec 19 00:30
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelDec 19 00:30
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzDec 19 00:30
schestowitzDec 19 00:18:58 <neighborlee>schestowitz, ive never heard of him correct,,but the point was well taken and  really kinda silly to even discuss I think ,,I mean open source software is free ( of course there is gpl vs lgpl but hey) so I just dont see a necessary distinction here ;)...if its all over grammar I think thats a very silly arguement ;)Dec 19 00:35
schestowitzIt's better to work together, I agree.Dec 19 00:36
schestowitzBut to point out the history is important too.Dec 19 00:36
neighborleeyeahDec 19 00:39
schestowitzDoes YouTube work for you?Dec 19 01:50
schestowitz"YouTube will be undergoing scheduled maintenance, starting around 7:00 pm PDT." The videos are all blank now.Dec 19 01:50
schestowitzWow. http://www.propeller.com/member...Dec 19 01:58
schestowitzI've almost submitted 25,000 items to Netscape/Propeller. I'll keep on eye on the milestone.Dec 19 01:59
neighborleeyoutube..loaded but kinda slowlyDec 19 02:09
schestowitzStill blank over here.Dec 19 02:10
schestowitzNa... it's totally dead.. like Linspire.Dec 19 02:11
neighborleelolDec 19 02:26
neighborleeI sorta hated to see it, liked CNR , but hey it was clear something was wrong, their development was haulted and well forums..yeah , dead .;0-Dec 19 02:27
neighborleefreespire is still on the PIV over here,but I have thought about  replacing it lolDec 19 02:27
schestowitzFreespire... no word about it.Dec 19 02:27
schestowitzXandros is being screwed by MS/ASUS now (they are tied up)Dec 19 02:28
neighborleeim not entirely happy with any linux atm..they all have flaws that I think could easily be better if we just all united under one consistent banner..not ubuntu, but something ;)))Dec 19 02:28
neighborleeno great surprise thereDec 19 02:28
neighborleea shame, it was a decent distro in many ways,,ohwellDec 19 02:28
schestowitz...You know something?Dec 19 02:28
schestowitzI don't think I've found a SINGLE thing about Freespire since it came to Xandros.Dec 19 02:28
neighborleeyeahDec 19 02:29
schestowitzThis leads me to wondering if it would be just lip service they give itDec 19 02:29
neighborleefigured as muchDec 19 02:29
schestowitzWhat would be the market? Ubuntu users that want a different theme from a Microsoft buddy Xandros?Dec 19 02:29
neighborleeits still a shame about CNR thoughDec 19 02:29
neighborleeit had promise..like the download.com for linux.Dec 19 02:29
schestowitzCNR is GPLedDec 19 02:29
schestowitzBut Synaptic and other managers replace it easilyDec 19 02:30
schestowitzCNR had its days back in the daysDec 19 02:30
schestowitzYou should try Mandriva 2008.1Dec 19 02:30
schestowitzVery, VERY goodDec 19 02:30
neighborleesynaptic is nice, but cnr had great style I thought..synaptic is kind plain janeDec 19 02:30
schestowitzKDE4... probably a little too early... give it some more months.Dec 19 02:30
schestowitzCNR is still aliveDec 19 02:31
schestowitzKevin whats-his-name is there in Xandros working on that, IIRCDec 19 02:31
neighborleei still have mixed emotions about mandriva  but I guess at least the default ( kde) has no mono ;0-Dec 19 02:31
neighborleehmmmmDec 19 02:31
neighborleeinteresting..cnr deserved to succede I thought ;0Dec 19 02:31
schestowitzWhat did you find troubling in Mandriva?Dec 19 02:34
neighborleewell same issue as ubuntu :)Dec 19 02:35
neighborleeat least regarding gnome version of livecd ;)Dec 19 02:35
schestowitzLive Cd..Dec 19 02:35
schestowitzWhy don't you allocate a partition to it?Dec 19 02:35
neighborleebut as fedora..default suggested is kde thusDec 19 02:36
neighborleewell mandriva kde 2009 is installed right now actualllly,,,,Dec 19 02:36
schestowitzVery good.Dec 19 02:36
neighborleeI see it as a lesser evil ;)Dec 19 02:36
schestowitzIf the alt+f2 thing annoys you..Dec 19 02:36
schestowitzThen get a plasmoid or traslucent app that's a CLIDec 19 02:36
neighborleewell it just surprised meDec 19 02:36
schestowitzThen you just need to hover it and typeDec 19 02:37
schestowitzWhat I do is I surround myself in side of the cube (8 dual-heads). Some of them have Konsoles in them,Dec 19 02:37
neighborleehow will a plasmoid help..admittedly I dont know much about themDec 19 02:38
schestowitzI live 'inside' the cube, but it's translucent, so I see Zermatt through the cube when switching.Dec 19 02:38
neighborleeeek gad ;)) 8 huh ;)Dec 19 02:38
neighborleenever messed with cube much reallly though its kinda coolDec 19 02:39
schestowitzPut Konsole in desktop 2Dec 19 02:39
schestowitzThen, hit CTRL+F2 or whatever for promptDec 19 02:39
schestowitzI think CTRL+F2 is something you need to set up manually. It's one of the first thing I do (key-bindings)Dec 19 02:39
neighborleewell I do alot of development anyway so I need konsole open regadless..ctrl-A2 is just handy for freinds that like linux but not some of the frustration ;)Dec 19 02:39
neighborleeit works fine in most distros, yet fedora is one that excludes gksu or gnomesu from default install which I find odd..its kinda more of the same dumbing down linus talked about....Dec 19 02:40
neighborleesmple is fine, but dont tie my  handsDec 19 02:41
neighborleesimpleDec 19 02:41
neighborleehowever ...I always liked mandriva for their slick urmpf(i) toolsDec 19 02:41
neighborleefedora makes it nuts to find stuff compared to Fedora 9 ...mandriva is the only one that makes it so nice and simpleDec 19 02:42
schestowitzThey just need awareness.Dec 19 02:43
neighborleeyeaDec 19 02:43
schestowitzMaybe a $300 million marketing campaign like Apple's?Dec 19 02:44
neighborlee:))Dec 19 02:44
schestowitzSpinning cubes, shiny toys and a skinny man that promises the moonDec 19 02:44
neighborleelolDec 19 02:44
schestowitzAnyway, 3AM here.Dec 19 02:44
schestowitzBedtime, cya tomorrowDec 19 02:45
neighborleeah yes..ok cu ;0-0Dec 19 02:45
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schestowitzMorning.Dec 19 09:04
kentmahiDec 19 09:22
MinceRr4wrDec 19 09:24
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schestowitzDown they go... http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/12/18...Dec 19 09:47
schestowitzOracle profits fall: Oracle Profits Drop Slightly on Strong US Dollar < http://www.pcworld.com/article/155747/oracle_profits... >Dec 19 10:13
schestowitzDOJ Files Antitrust Lawsuit Against Microsemi <http://www.pcworld.com/article/155757/doj_f... >Dec 19 10:13
schestowitz"No, it doesn’t include openSUSE. Take a look at this: http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS < http://news.opensuse.org/2008/12/... >Dec 19 10:16
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/155738/explorer... IDG still does not know the difference between hacker and crackerDec 19 10:20
schestowitzChina taking over the world? http://www.pcworld.com/article/155726/positivo_re...Dec 19 10:21
schestowitzFood Stamps hit record high in Oregon < http://technocrat.net/d/2008/12/18/55706 > As Beranger said yesterday < http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&2008/1... >, greatest nation under the sun.Dec 19 10:25
schestowitzReinventing the dishwasher.. poorly. http://www.deviceguru.com/robotic-arm-...Dec 19 10:28
schestowitzChinese spy scare sours Australia's plans for nationwide broadband < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/18/hu... >. Funny picture.Dec 19 10:33
schestowitzhttp://www.osnews.com/thread?340742 "Dude, do you have a double personality? That comment you wrote, which got modded down, looked an awful lot like a Novell-hating comment, and now you say the Novell haters modded you down? I'm betting you actually got modded down by people who believed you were irrationally hating on Novell. Either that, or you were intending to be sarcastic and it didn't come across that way."Dec 19 11:12
schestowitz"Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the deal between Microsoft and Novell didnt cover OpenSuse. But I don't know for sure." http://www.newmobilecomputing.com/thread?340754Dec 19 11:20
trmancopffDec 19 11:22
trmanco12/100 on acid3Dec 19 11:22
trmancowell done MicrosoftDec 19 11:22
trmancowith IE8, no evolution since IE6 or IE7 since they have the same acid3 scoreDec 19 11:24
schestowitzIt has other feature.Dec 19 11:25
schestowitzLike being bundledDec 19 11:26
trmancoand random featuresDec 19 11:27
trmancohttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&...Dec 19 11:28
trmancoJava Performance: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows VistaDec 19 11:28
schestowitz"Well, Java on Ubuntu was pretty much the hands-down winner compared to Microsoft Windows Vista Premium SP1. "Dec 19 11:29
*schestowitz watches chair flyingDec 19 11:30
*trmanco tries dodge schestowitz's chairDec 19 11:30
trmanco:|Dec 19 11:30
trmancoto*Dec 19 11:30
trmancohttp://osnews.com/img/20645/1.pngDec 19 11:31
schestowitzNo, it comes from northwestern AmericaDec 19 11:31
schestowitzIn't that from MICROSOFT.ZDNET.COM?Dec 19 11:31
trmancodon't knowDec 19 11:32
trmancoI saw it on osnewsDec 19 11:32
schestowitzI think it was.Dec 19 11:32
trmancobut the point is that I don't see improvements in 7Dec 19 11:32
schestowitzNo, Vista7 is to Vista what Ubuntu 8.04.1 is to 8.04 :-)Dec 19 11:36
trmancoyeah, I agree with thatDec 19 11:36
schestowitzFeiseven.Dec 19 11:41
trmancoFirefox 3.1 Beta 2 on Linux uses less memory: http://blog.karlt.net/2008/12/firefox-31-beta-2-o...Dec 19 12:04
schestowitzCool!Dec 19 12:04
trmancohmm, I didn't know that Qt (the widgets) was pronounces cuteDec 19 12:08
trmancoI just learned something todayDec 19 12:08
schestowitzI only found out some years ago. I said Que Tee beforehand.Dec 19 12:19
schestowitzYouTube is not working for me since the maintenance they did last night. Is it just me?Dec 19 12:24
trmancoworks hereDec 19 12:24
schestowitzBoycott Apple launched: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/blog/1200Dec 19 12:24
schestowitzHmmm... it works in Konqueror and Not FFDec 19 12:26
schestowitzMaybe because of greasemonkey. Maybe they blocked it.Dec 19 12:26
trmancoI'm using FF 3.0.5 btwDec 19 12:26
schestowitzHmm.. no..Dec 19 12:28
schestowitzMetacafe worksDec 19 12:32
schestowitzhttp://video.google.com/ works (With embedded YouTube)Dec 19 12:33
schestowitzI could access it via Googlevideo: http://video.google.com/videosearch?...Dec 19 12:33
schestowitzI'm guessing that Google did maintainance to black some scripting.Dec 19 12:33
schestowitz*blockDec 19 12:33
trmancoI think they didDec 19 12:34
trmancoI read this somewhereDec 19 12:34
schestowitzAhhhhhh......Dec 19 12:35
schestowitzDamn.Dec 19 12:35
schestowitzThey broke PyTube half a year ago.. I used to use that.Dec 19 12:35
schestowitzI'm sure someone will rev-engineer something for a hack soon.Dec 19 12:35
*trmanco lunch timeDec 19 12:36
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schestowitzThe Asay idiot is again attacking Linux: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3...Dec 19 13:21
schestowitzWhat's his source? An anti-Linux guy from 'IT' wire.Dec 19 13:22
schestowitzHere is a Vista 'advert' disguised in the headline "Hasta La Vista, Microsoft Vista" http://www.toptechnews.com/story.xhtml?...Dec 19 13:25
schestowitzI thought about just tossing ITwire into the wastebasket after so much trolling from there recently (it's deliberate). They carry on with the Microsoft tune: "computer=desktop, therefore Linux is not important."Dec 19 13:28
schestowitzI'll write about this quickly.Dec 19 13:43
schestowitz"You are wrong. With my computer, XP doesn't even give me a wired connection out of the box so how can i download the drivers? I get your point, I'm just saying that linux supports more hardware out of the box which is what your argument was about." http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_vs_XPDec 19 14:21
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trmancow00tDec 19 14:42
trmancowinehq has a new designDec 19 14:42
trmanco:ODec 19 14:42
schestowitzI was just writing about themDec 19 14:47
schestowitzGive me 2 minutesDec 19 14:47
trmancobut how long has the design been up?Dec 19 14:50
trmancoI haven't visited winehq for over a weekDec 19 14:50
schestowitz2 days+Dec 19 14:51
trmancocoolDec 19 14:51
zoobabhttp://ec.europa.eu/idabc/en/document/7732Dec 19 14:55
zoobabcontributions publishedDec 19 14:55
zoobabMicrosoft, ACT, CompTIA and alDec 19 14:55
schestowitzWine responds to winning a "Most Likely to Be Ambiguously and Baselessly Accused of Patent Violation" award: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/19/micr...Dec 19 14:56
trmancohttp://sourceforge.net/community...Dec 19 14:59
schestowitzI've just heard from Asay about a correction that was not needed. I also told him about the OSBC. I didn't do it to provoke. I was genuinely concerned... MS is there.Dec 19 14:59
schestowitztrmanco: the rest joined _much_ later.Dec 19 15:00
trmancoLOLDec 19 15:00
schestowitzzoobab: BSA tooDec 19 15:01
schestowitzHeh. Glyn MoodyDec 19 15:01
schestowitzACT writes: "Promotion of Open Source is Outside the Scope of this Framework" (pp. 2)Dec 19 15:02
zoobabOpen StandardsDec 19 15:18
zoobabRed Hat strongly believes that fostering open standards and encouraging innovation decreasesDec 19 15:18
zoobabdependence on a single suite of applications and on a single vendor. Therefore, Red HatDec 19 15:18
zoobabsupports the adoption and promotion of open standards that are available free from any licensing,Dec 19 15:19
zoobabroyalty payments, or other restrictions, and that are implementable by multiple vendors onDec 19 15:19
zoobabmultiple platforms. Ideally, such standards are developed through a transparent and vendor-Dec 19 15:19
zoobabneutral process. Red Hat is very pleased that the EIF v2.0 adopts these same principles regardingDec 19 15:19
zoobabopen standards. The company also commends the IDABC for resisting pressure to broaden itsDec 19 15:19
zoobabdefinition of "open" standards to include standards that contain intellectual property for which aDec 19 15:19
zoobabdeveloper must pay a royalty. Such standards, which generally benefit only one proprietaryDec 19 15:19
zoobabvendor, do not meet the generally accepted definition of "openness" and should not beDec 19 15:19
zoobabpromulgated as such.Dec 19 15:19
schestowitzzoobab: I'll have a post in 2 minutesDec 19 15:19
zoobabThe proposed exclusion of non-royalty free standards will slow down innovation because R&DDec 19 15:22
zoobabinvestments can no longer be earned back. This is bad for society €­ consumers and public authoritiesDec 19 15:22
zoobabalike €­ and for the economy at large. It will hurt our region hardest as proximity to (public authority)Dec 19 15:23
zoobabcustomers is an advantage. It should not be forgotten that if royalty-free standards are imposed,Dec 19 15:23
zoobabEuropean investors in R&D will have to give royalty-free licenses to non-European competitors, whichDec 19 15:23
zoobabis difficult to reconcile with the EU's Lisbon objectives.Dec 19 15:23
schestowitzMicrosoft, along with ACT, CompTIA and the BSA, are working to change Europe's policy on standards: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/19/microsof...Dec 19 15:23
schestowitzzoobab: what's the latter coming from?Dec 19 15:24
schestowitzI've tried to spread the word: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_Paid_Lobbyi...Dec 19 15:26
zoobabI think it is a Microsoft proxy:Dec 19 15:28
zoobabOr, l'APVF estime que le projet de texte soulève des interrogations majeures dont enDec 19 15:28
zoobabparticulier une vision de l'interopérabilité reposant exclusivement sur des standards ouverts,Dec 19 15:28
zoobabsans doute pertinente d'un point de vue des principes, mais qui peut aussi être atteinte parDec 19 15:28
zoobabd'autres méthodes comme encourager les détenteurs de propriété intellectuelle à prendreDec 19 15:28
zoobabpart au développement des standards ouverts, en particulier en donnant accès à leurDec 19 15:28
zoobabtechnologie (même si cela se fait sous des termes de licence de type RAND/RaisonnableDec 19 15:28
zoobaband Non Discriminatory €­ Raisonnable et non Discriminatoire).Dec 19 15:28
zoobabLes termes RAND recherchent un équilibre entre les intérêts des titulaires de droits et lesDec 19 15:28
zoobablicenciés. Or c'est précisément cet équilibre qui encourage et stimule l'innovation et parDec 19 15:28
zoobabconséquent l'essor économique dans chaque collectivités locales de l'Union.Dec 19 15:28
schestowitzWhich one is it?Dec 19 15:30
schestowitzGlyn Moody: "Leaving aside the fact that software patents "as such" are not, in anyDec 19 15:33
schestowitzcase, admissible in Europe, this is a fundamental issue. StandardsDec 19 15:33
schestowitzthat depend on patents are not compatible with open source unlessDec 19 15:33
schestowitzroyalty-free licences are granted irrevocably. I therefore urge theDec 19 15:33
schestowitzEuropean Commission not to compromise on this point, since doing soDec 19 15:33
schestowitzwould vitiate the creation of a playing-field that is level for all –Dec 19 15:33
schestowitzand not just those with deep pockets - and nullify the entire point ofDec 19 15:33
schestowitzthe interoperability framework. There is no halfway house here."Dec 19 15:33
zoobabhttp://scideralle.org/Les-maires-courroies-de.h...Dec 19 15:34
schestowitz"Ce travail sur l’image, Bill Gates et Microsoft l’ont commencé, ou tout au moins l’ont mondialisé, avec la création de la Fondation Bill & Melinda Gates. Le nom de Bill Gates étant très fortement connoté avec celui de son entreprise, l’empathie de son action €« désintéressée €» rejaillit sur l’image de son entreprise auprès du public."Dec 19 15:35
schestowitzGoogle translate: " This work on the image, Bill Gates and Microsoft have begun, or at least have globalized, with the creation of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Le nom de Bill Gates étant très fortement connoté avec celui de son entreprise, l’empathie de son action €« désintéressée €» rejaillit sur l’image de son entreprise auprès du public. The name of Bill Gates being very strong with that of his company, empathDec 19 15:36
schestowitzy for its action "disinterested" affects the image of his company to the public."Dec 19 15:36
zoobabstandard". Europe has been strongly in favor of the use of ISO standards, but aDec 19 15:37
zoobablot of people doubt if ISO is the best place for software standardization. They areDec 19 15:37
zoobabmore impressed by the way bodies like IETF, W3C, IEEE, do the job.Dec 19 15:37
schestowitzWho write this, zoobab?Dec 19 15:39
schestowitz*wroteDec 19 15:39
zoobabThe Draft EIF v2 proposed to redefine "open standards" in a way that devalues intellectualDec 19 15:41
zoobabproperty in standards and discourages intellectual property creators from introducing theirDec 19 15:41
zoobabinnovative technology. The EIF v2 have adopted a new definition of "open standards, itDec 19 15:41
zoobabshould be a definition with European Commission standardisation policy and consistent withDec 19 15:41
zoobabISO.Dec 19 15:41
zoobab  a. Standards policies respect the balance of interests of intellectual property creators andDec 19 15:41
zoobab     users to encourage investment in and dissemination of innovative technology.Dec 19 15:41
zoobab  b. RAND-based standards are available to all users, including vendors relying on the openDec 19 15:41
zoobab     source software business model. The EIF v2 revaluating "open standards" assumes thatDec 19 15:41
zoobab     interoperability cannot be based on RAND-based standards.Dec 19 15:41
zoobabDec 19 15:41
zoobabHollandOpen for the first quoteDec 19 15:41
zoobabI just added here:Dec 19 15:41
zoobabhttp://www.noooxml.org/startDec 19 15:41
schestowitzThanks.Dec 19 15:41
schestowitzWhat's the French  group called?Dec 19 15:42
schestowitzFind links to Sarko :-pDec 19 15:42
zoobabhttp://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t-114342/europa:...Dec 19 15:44
zoobab"RAND-based standards are available to all users, including vendors relying on the open source software business model."Dec 19 15:44
zoobabAs other stakeholders have noted €­ including EICTA, whose submission to the CommissionDec 19 15:46
zoobabis attached to this letter €­ most developers of open standards have intellectual propertyDec 19 15:46
zoobabpolicies that could fail to satisfy the above criteria. The major standards bodies have policiesDec 19 15:46
zoobabthat permit IPR holders to license any patents essential to the standard under fair,Dec 19 15:46
zoobabreasonable and non-discriminatory ("FRAND") terms that would not satisfy the requirementsDec 19 15:46
zoobabof the EIF. Leading standards developed by bodies generally recognised as open standardsDec 19 15:46
zoobabdevelopers €­ such as OASIS, W3C, IETF, IEEE, ETSI, ISO, IEC and ITU €­ would not in factDec 19 15:46
zoobabbe "open" under the EIF criteria.Dec 19 15:46
zoobabIntellecy UK, EICTA membersDec 19 15:46
schestowitzhttp://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_re...Dec 19 15:48
twitterRAND is evil bullshit.Dec 19 15:50
zoobabgood ODF OOXML troll:Dec 19 15:50
zoobabhttp://ec.europa.eu/idabc/servlets/Doc?id=31957Dec 19 15:50
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schestowitzI g2gDec 19 15:53
schestowitzBlechDec 19 15:54
schestowitzmarbux and chumsDec 19 15:54
schestowitzbblDec 19 15:54
zoobabhttp://www.digitalmajority.org/forum...Dec 19 15:54
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trmancohttp://www.davep.org/emacs/boxquote.elDec 19 16:14
twitter" due to a recent spate of mishaps, it sure looks like that when it comes to the desktop and end-user side of things, Microsoft's days may be numbered." http://www.crn.com/software/212501235Dec 19 16:35
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Omar87Hi allDec 19 16:44
trmancoGates Foundation Looks to Use Funds to Improve Libraries: http://www.dailytech.com/Gates+Foundation+Looks+...Dec 19 16:52
twitterZDnet notices Astroturf, blames "loud open source advocates"  http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-sourc...Dec 19 17:00
twitterMy keyboard is louder then most, but the words on your browser are only as loud as your imagination makes them.Dec 19 17:01
trmancoIE8 and IE7 Mitigations Failed Against the MSHTML.DLL Critical Exploits: http://news.softpedia.com/news/IE8-and-IE7-Mitig...Dec 19 17:01
twitterhorrible story all around http://globalnation.inquirer.net/news/breaking...Dec 19 17:09
twitterIntel cow-taus to M$ on graphics, http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/ope...Dec 19 17:13
twitterWant to bet the next batch of Intel graphics chips don't come with GPL'd drivers?Dec 19 17:13
twitterNotice how they also threaten Vista logos if hardware is not Vista 7 "certified"Dec 19 17:14
twitterWhy do they bother with this useless revocation threat?  No one wants Vista.Dec 19 17:15
twitterI take it back about Intel.  They seem to have provided documentation http://www.x.org/docs/intel/VOL_1_graphic... [warning, 500 page pdf]Dec 19 17:17
twitterWhat are "negative earnings" ? http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/121908-m...Dec 19 17:23
trmancoOpen source success due to Microsoft, claims report: http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/op...Dec 19 17:25
trmanconegative earnings... lets say you have earned -$500 :-PDec 19 17:25
twitterforget it, the article was confused and full of M$ nonsense.Dec 19 17:26
twittertrolling for page hits with M$ apologies dressed as bad news, ie reality.Dec 19 17:27
twitterThis article says Vista breaks DHCP, http://www.itworld.com/small-business/59402/vis...Dec 19 17:34
twitterBasically, Vista is still not ready.  http://www.itworld.com/small-business/...Dec 19 17:36
twitterEA cutting 2000 jobs.  http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/19/news/companies...Dec 19 18:07
twitterDoes M$ own part of them?Dec 19 18:07
twittererr, that's 1,000 jobs for EA and 1,000 jobs for another company.Dec 19 18:09
twitterbusiness week slogs them http://www.businessweek.com/technology/con...Dec 19 18:11
*neighborlee has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Dec 19 18:26
PetoKrausright, so, is iPlayer open-source?Dec 19 18:37
PetoKrauswell, good joke!Dec 19 18:47
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@c-24-16-17-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellDec 19 19:50
neighborleeschestowitz: I think Jo just sunk to a new alltime low..that or he has his 'kid' type it for him? and forget to mention things like 'poopie' dont lend themsleves to anyone being taken serious  :)Dec 19 19:51
neighborleeschestowitz: I gotta say Im actually surprised by this level of childishnessDec 19 19:56
neighborleeoh well ;Dec 19 19:56
neighborlee:)Dec 19 19:56
*cj (n=cjac@66.152.65.2) has joined #boycottnovellDec 19 20:03
cjwow s<tab> isn't here!?Dec 19 20:03
cjoh, there he is.  he's got a @ :)Dec 19 20:03
cjschestowitz: I hear you're getting comments from tim@oreilly.com on your blog!Dec 19 20:03
neighborleelolDec 19 20:29
neighborleeI mean about the @ part ;)Dec 19 20:29
neighborleeJo continues to embarrase himself and the mono supporters ;)Dec 19 20:32
neighborleethey cant debate, so they just descend into childishness.Dec 19 20:32
neighborleeimagine that.Dec 19 20:32
schestowitzI saw that nail in coffin article earlier, twitter Dec 19 20:40
schestowitzHa. Intel is getting to bed with collusion partner against, using drivers.Dec 19 20:45
schestowitzNegative earnings probably means lower than expectations probably.Dec 19 20:47
*schestowitz been out drinking for several hours, so pardon the typos.Dec 19 20:47
schestowitzJohn E. Dunn is talking BSDec 19 20:49
schestowitzThe report from Saugatuck Technology, which I wrote about in BN yesterday, is not talking about MicrosoftDec 19 20:49
schestowitzThey just try to make a crazy headline: "Open source success due to Microsoft, claims report"Dec 19 20:49
schestowitztwitter: just 2000 at EA. I'll drin kto that. Welcome to 2009.Dec 19 20:50
schestowitzThe worse will come in January, post-xmasDec 19 20:50
schestowitzPetoKraus: iPlayer is still a  bad scamDec 19 20:52
schestowitzneighborlee: where? Comments? I need to catch yo.Dec 19 20:52
schestowitz*upDec 19 20:52
schestowitzHey, cj Dec 19 20:53
schestowitzneighborlee: Jo is tossing crap all over BN to scare others awayDec 19 20:53
schestowitzI'm not sure BW slogs EA.... they just can't sell much. BW is still Wintel press nonetheless.Dec 19 20:54
schestowitzneighborlee: what do you know about Moulette?Dec 19 20:56
neighborleeschestowitz: well he's not getting what he was after.he is just  making himself look really childish, and doing zero for his side of the debate..Dec 19 20:56
neighborleeschestowitz: talk about mono fodderDec 19 20:57
neighborleeschestowitz: nothing about itDec 19 20:57
neighborleecheckingDec 19 20:57
neighborleewell google isn't giving me much..whatcha talkin about ;)Dec 19 21:01
schestowitzNever mind, I was asked to keep it quiet.Dec 19 21:07
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/23/mono-...Dec 19 21:08
*kentma has quit ("Leaving.")Dec 19 21:13
schestowitzHehe. I've been invited to Las Vegas for a conference.Dec 19 21:14
schestowitzFlights and all covered... but I have to pass.Dec 19 21:14
twitterJo is a heckler.  Anyone who looks him up can see that.Dec 19 21:16
schestowitzNot just in BNM?Dec 19 21:17
schestowitzBN?Dec 19 21:17
schestowitzBah. I can't typeDec 19 21:17
schestowitzBut I think that I type faster when I'm drunkDec 19 21:17
schestowitzIt turns out that other people explore the Mono isssue tooDec 19 21:18
schestowitzSee http://www.itwire.com/content/vi...Dec 19 21:18
twitterI don't know Jo Shills outside of BN, but that's more than enough.Dec 19 21:18
schestowitzYes, he claims it's cause we cover monoDec 19 21:19
neighborleeschestowitz: ah ok ;))Dec 19 21:19
twitterThe hecklers are here to stink the place up.  The reasons are not as important as what they actually do.Dec 19 21:20
schestowitzAbout that conference, I told that "I don't feel as though I would be safe among a crowd that I have been criticising, but I appreciate your offer enormously and will continue to cover you in a friendly fashion."Dec 19 21:20
schestowitzIt's the people who are partner of Novell, whom I have no problems withDec 19 21:20
schestowitzI mentioned them sometimes by accident.Dec 19 21:21
schestowitzIt's amazing how many people out there work with Novell while quietly  disagreeing with them,.Dec 19 21:22
schestowitzI understand that Ron H was doing what he did for his shareholder, but I think he missed an opportunity for community support.Dec 19 21:22
schestowitzSome people stayed with the community. Even Open-Xchange are OK, despite the SUSE-iish roots.Dec 19 21:23
schestowitzHm.............. http://www.newsweek.com/id/171558 ......... MSNBC!! Newsweek is related to MS? And they hired anti-Linux anti-Apple Dan Lyons??Dec 19 21:25
neighborleeCant' blame someone for staying with a job that pays if thats the case, but yeah to quietly speak out while doing so proves loyalty to linux ideals and thats pretty neat.Dec 19 21:26
neighborleeschestowitz: I guesss like Miguel they had something desireable , god knows what that is though o_0Dec 19 21:26
schestowitzDesirable? What does Miguel have?Dec 19 21:26
schestowitzGood news for the gnus... http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS91... ... desktops down... phones up.. and Windows Mobile is tanking.Dec 19 21:27
twitterRMS recommends people avoid travel to the US but a conference might be worth going to.  Think about it a while.Dec 19 21:28
twitterMSFT down, markets up.  ha haDec 19 21:28
schestowitzNo, I can'tDec 19 21:28
schestowitzNovell people would be there.Dec 19 21:28
schestowitzRonH will give a keynote, I thinkDec 19 21:28
schestowitzGah. The Microsoft Jack thing... He has unethical history.Dec 19 21:29
schestowitzThe MAFIAA moves to plan B : http://www.pcworld.com/article/155769/riaa_...Dec 19 21:30
twitterIt makes sense to avoid even the appearance of support to those people.Dec 19 21:30
schestowitzI remember when Michael Larabel asked me to come to FOSDEMDec 19 21:31
schestowitzIt's filled with Novell people,  so I was like"WTF?"Dec 19 21:31
schestowitzActually, zoobab suggested that I come to this year's (in Belgium).Dec 19 21:31
schestowitz@ zoobab  US Trade Panel to Investigate Semiconductor Patent Complaint < http://www.pcworld.com/article/155773/us_trade... >Dec 19 21:32
twitterNothing of interest to learn, reputation to lose.  Sounds like good reasoning to me.Dec 19 21:34
schestowitzWhat do you mean?Dec 19 21:35
schestowitzhttp://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/20...Dec 19 21:46
schestowitzWage slavery: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-383...Dec 19 21:46
twitterI mean you don't want to go.  There's nothing good for you and plenty that can be bad.Dec 19 22:00
schestowitzhttp://www.linux.com/feature/155881 "Still, I found myself disappointed by openSUSE's jumping a bit too hard and fast onto the ease-of-use bandwagon."Dec 19 22:01
schestowitzOuch. Coming from Susan, who loves OpenSUSE/Novell much of the time. Let's see the comments.Dec 19 22:01
neighborleeschestowitz: sweeet about windows mobile..go android ;)Dec 19 22:02
schestowitzMiguel brings new poison to teh Lunix: http://tirania.org/blog/archi...Dec 19 22:03
neighborleelast comment is  revealing thoughDec 19 22:10
schestowitzWhich?Dec 19 22:11
schestowitzhttp://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/?p=909Dec 19 22:13
schestowitzApple sued in Apple TV wireless audio patent clash: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/12/19/...Dec 19 22:18
schestowitz"The named US patents are 7,130,616, 7,142,934, 7,142,935, and 7,167,765, but we note that the final three are all headed 'Audio converter device and method for using the same', have the same abstract and are therefore clearly variations on a theme."Dec 19 22:18
schestowitzMeery xmas..  Polaroid files for Chapter 11  < http://edition.cnn.com/2008/TECH/12/19/po... >. Jan 2009 will be even more interesting I hear..Dec 19 22:20
neighborleeno great surprise o_0Dec 19 22:20
neighborleehttp://lists.debian.org/debian-deve... < ok, thats just weird...Dec 19 22:20
schestowitzPeople use digital cameras, so patent-collecting time is overDec 19 22:20
neighborleeand I thought i'd seen it all....SIGHDec 19 22:20
schestowitzhttp://np237.livejournal.com/17716.htmlDec 19 22:22
neighborleeyup I know.,,that is what I was referring to o_0Dec 19 22:23
schestowitzBlack metal/horror/whatever does not mix with humour.Dec 19 22:23
neighborleeI cant imagine under what circumstances  posting something like that could be taken as anywhere near  'ok' o_0Dec 19 22:24
neighborleehttp://lists.debian.org/deb... < I think that   kinda says it all ;)LOLDec 19 22:25
twitternot LOL, trashy.  I hope they boot the person who wrote that.Dec 19 22:28
twitterhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb vindicated http://www.counterpunch.org/ciadrugs.htmlDec 19 22:30
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellDec 19 22:30
neighborleetwitter: me tooDec 19 22:30
neighborleetwitter: humor has its place but that certainly wasn't it o_0Dec 19 22:30
schestowitz"That being said — had I not cared immensely about the future of openSUSE, I’d probably just format my computers with Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex and say goodbye." http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9354Dec 19 22:34
schestowitzWhy would he care about Novell's plot? Because he works for IBM?Dec 19 22:34
schestowitz Debian Secretary Quits Over Lenny Release Vote < http://www.itwire.com/conten... >Dec 19 22:37
neighborleeunbelieveableDec 19 22:42
neighborleefirst gentoo has devleoper fun going on, now debian..are people eating something bad lately ? ;)Dec 19 22:43
*Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Dec 19 22:43
twitterLooks like they have been trolled hard.  Don't trust anyone with a "live journal"Dec 19 22:46
twittercrazy talk http://np237.livejournal.com/Dec 19 22:47
schestowitzI bet Ubuntu loses users to other distrosDec 19 22:47
neighborleehope soDec 19 22:47
twitterUbuntu users won't see any of this crap.Dec 19 22:48
neighborleeno distro deserves it more ;)Dec 19 22:48
schestowitzNot much Ubuntu news recently (part week). I think they concentrate too much on monetisation(C), i.e. Ubuntu mobile/remix/whatever.Dec 19 22:48
schestowitzI'm not sure if 8.10 is neglect of progressDec 19 22:48
schestowitzNothing loses like Windows thoughDec 19 22:48
twitterMy /. hecklers promised me they were infiltrating Debian.  I think the problem is self limiting.Dec 19 22:48
schestowitzOn Symbian on mobile..Dec 19 22:49
schestowitzInteresting figures: http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2008/12/1...Dec 19 22:51
twitternice picturesDec 19 22:55
neighborleeodd indeedDec 19 22:57
neighborleefunding for 2008,,imagine that  :(Dec 19 22:57
schestowitzJoe Peterson, a vice president at Microsoft, is leaving: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/19/joe...Dec 19 23:03
schestowitzMore on another departure: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micro...Dec 19 23:07
schestowitz"How many general managers, vice-presidents, and senior vice-presidents does it take exactly to spend BILLIONS of dollars, lose 50% of your share in just two years, and still be unprofitable?"Dec 19 23:08
schestowitz"Failed miserably yet has another cushy job lined up ..Must be that "Goldberg" name." Dec 19 23:08
schestowitzGoblin out to see this blog's blogroll... all the usual shills (or Microsoft Movement) is there, ActiveWin includedDec 19 23:09
neighborleelolDec 19 23:12
schestowitzIt's disgusting, not funny. It's like some kind of a lotting group that cites one another to harm people's rights. Microsoft was called "Criminals" by Judge Jackson.Dec 19 23:21
neighborleehttp://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2... < LOLDec 19 23:24
neighborleeSorry but Debian is not a men's club and we're not their "chicks".Dec 19 23:25
neighborleehow sad she actuallly was put in a position of feeling that way...Dec 19 23:25
neighborleemakes gentoo issues look silly by comparison ;)Dec 19 23:26
neighborleealso kinda makes me feel glad im using mandrivaDec 19 23:26
schestowitzDeath To The Embargo < http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/17/de... >Dec 19 23:26
neighborleeo_0Dec 19 23:26
schestowitzDebbiieIan.Dec 19 23:27
schestowitzShould accommodate bothDec 19 23:27
*macabe has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Dec 19 23:56

Recent Techrights' Posts

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