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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 27th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:37 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

*seller_liar (i=c90dc437@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-241fd25aa884e9bb) has joined #boycottnovell Dec 27 00:29
seller_liar Novell bit by bit tries to replace all linux apps to mono apps Dec 27 00:29
seller_liar http://www.monsoon-project.org/ Dec 27 00:30
seller_liar At this time is Deluge vs Moonsoon Dec 27 00:31
seller_liar I don t know if is Novell sponsored Dec 27 00:33
seller_liar But it’s inclued in OpenSuse Installation 11.1 Dec 27 00:33
MinceR gn Dec 27 01:07
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schestowitz *LOL* the Microsoft Munchhkins threaten to harass my bosses  to have me harmed. :-) They tried this years ago and it got them nowhere. Dec 27 01:55
schestowitz This Microsoft shill (FACT) links to Homer’s site: http://platformevangelism.spaces.live… Damage control Dec 27 02:24
schestowitz That’s the guy who wrote the “evangeligm is WAR” memo. He was in touch with me and another person from COLA. He regrets what he did and only after leaving Microsoft could he understand that (amazing what people do from a check from Don Ballmer). Dec 27 02:27
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schestowitz People in have already made up a name for me < http://platformevangelism.spaces.live.c… > : “BoycottBoy” ((that’s from a Microsoft blog) Dec 27 04:43
schestowitz Watch Kara and Mossberg pimping each others’ stuff in Digg: http://digg.com/users/waltmossbe… Dec 27 06:11
schestowitz http://digg.com/users/karaswisher/friends Dec 27 06:12
schestowitz Kara diggs Mossberg Dec 27 06:12
schestowitz Mossberg diggs Kara. Dec 27 06:12
schestowitz “Yeah that’s for sure. Our country is falling apart and the Chinese are taking over.” http://www.mixx.com/stories/3222455/microsoft_… Dec 27 06:17
schestowitz I’ve just told Var Guy that he was not wrong about Novell. They operate at a loss (about $17 million) and their stock sank by about 50%. Dec 27 06:59
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schestowitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression “There were multiple causes for the first downturn in 1929, including the structural weaknesses and specific events that turned it into a major depression and the way in which the downturn spread from country to country.” Dec 27 07:56
schestowitz “Irving Fisher argued that the predominant factor leading to the Great Depression was overindebtedness and deflation. Fisher tied loose credit to over-indebtedness, which fueled speculation and asset bubbles.” < like patents Dec 27 07:58
schestowitz “After the panic of 1929, and during the first 10 months of 1930, 744 US banks failed. (In all, 9,000 banks failed during the 1930s).” Dec 27 07:59
schestowitz “In their view, the key cause of the Depression was the expansion of the money supply in the 1920s that led to an unsustainable credit-driven boom.” Dec 27 08:02
schestowitz Shane O’Neill , CIO.com, seems like Microsoft booster in IDG. He’s using their marketing buzz-sentences repeatedly. Dec 27 08:23
schestowitz http://www.pcworld.com/article/156081/saty… “Indian outsourcer Satyam Computer Services has demanded an apology from the World Bank for statements made after it barred Satyam from the bank’s direct contracts for a period of eight years.” Dec 27 08:25
schestowitz The more I read it, the more similar it seems to what happens at the moment (only the early stages). It hopefully won’t lead to a world war :-O 10 years down the lines as it did back then (rise of extreme regimes)… these days the Chinese have nukes too and hydrogen bombs makes world wars super-lethal. Dec 27 08:50
schestowitz Several decades ago in Europe (cold war). scientists warned that the survival of the human species is at stake. There was almost a nuclear strike, but it was avoided at the end. Dec 27 08:50
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schestowitz Whoa. Like 100 people per day come to Boycott Novell after searching for information about the Microsoft layoffs. That’s like double what it used to be. Dec 27 09:28
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mib_ngbaqd hola Dec 27 09:39
schestowitz Hey Dec 27 09:41
schestowitz What’s up? Dec 27 09:41
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mib_ngbaqd BN got on a top ten blog list: http://www.junauza.com/2008/12… Dec 27 09:48
schestowitz Cool. Dec 27 09:51
schestowitz Getting credit from one of my favourtie blogs feels good. Dec 27 09:52
schestowitz Rockers to Press Obama on Music Torture < http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/1… > Dec 27 10:33
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PetoKraus thx for the email roy Dec 27 10:57
schestowitz np Dec 27 10:57
schestowitz I thought about this later Dec 27 10:57
schestowitz Microsoft has a nice cycle going Dec 27 10:57
schestowitz Microsoft earns money, some is passed to Gates (Foundation), which then funnels it back to governments, who in turn feel obliged to pay Microsoft excessively for software (BECTA and the NHS for example). Dec 27 10:58
schestowitz The way this is set up, politicians and Microsoft get rich in this closed cycle of money, where the ‘feeder’ in the taxpayer. GNU/Linux companies are locked out of this cycle because they can’t introduce kickbacks and such. It’s quite a classic structure of corruption. Dec 27 10:59
MinceR hay Dec 27 11:52
schestowitz Morning, mib_ngbaqd Dec 27 11:53
schestowitz *MinceR Dec 27 11:53
schestowitz Watch this comment in this Microsoft boot-licking post: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mic… Dec 27 11:55
schestowitz “Source for the numbers?”  … “The company. I asked a spokeswoman.” [oh yeah.. so we know how independent the blog is] .. “I’d love to see the breakout of donated cash vs. software. Giving away software for free (e.g. to schools) is just a way to get people hooked on the Microsoft product chain.” Dec 27 11:56
schestowitz There are so many ads in that blog today… Jo has gone mad. Server viral marketing… cheap drug^H^H^H^HOffice Dec 27 11:58
trmanco was that you? :-P Dec 27 11:58
schestowitz I think that layoff speculations had the Microsoft bloggers who are /supposed/ to be impartial just huddle together Dec 27 11:59
schestowitz trmanco: no, someone else. I think I only left 3 comments in this blog… EVER. Dec 27 11:59
trmanco ok Dec 27 11:59
schestowitz Last one was to point out that he was boosting a Microsoft shill  ‘study’ (attack on Google Apps from former Microsoft employees) Dec 27 12:00
trmanco hey cool Dec 27 12:07
trmanco what a warm welcome on COLA Dec 27 12:07
trmanco :D Dec 27 12:07
schestowitz Gary loves me Dec 27 12:10
trmanco what? is he gay or something? Dec 27 12:10
schestowitz I think so. Others think so too. Dec 27 12:11
schestowitz Gary loves me… to death. Hopefully he’s broke enough that he can’t make his death wishes and threats more than just words. I’m in a high-security area, so.. Dec 27 12:12
schestowitz I’m waiting for that reply from ErikFu… let’s see if he knows James.. http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/12/une… Dec 27 12:14
trmanco oo Dec 27 12:16
trmanco a Windows live site Dec 27 12:17
schestowitz He used to live in Australia briefly, but he came (back?) to Texas, which leaves me wondering what happened. Dec 27 12:18
mib_ngbaqd I tried reading more of that dude James’ blog, but damn if it wasn’t making me sick to my stomach Dec 27 12:29
schestowitz Which parts? Dec 27 12:31
schestowitz he embellishes, you know? What the memo in question. He talks about “Jihad” over and over again. Dec 27 12:31
mib_ngbaqd just about everything from the first post on. So slimy and souless Dec 27 12:31
mib_ngbaqd no self-respect, like the iraqi information minister or something Dec 27 12:32
schestowitz They work for money. Dec 27 12:32
mib_ngbaqd so does blackwater Dec 27 12:32
mib_ngbaqd so do drug dealers Dec 27 12:33
schestowitz I think education should intervene here and teach people that making money at the expense of ethics and other people’s pain is not acceptable. Dec 27 12:33
mib_ngbaqd yeah it’s the pure lack of ethics that is disturbing Dec 27 12:33
mib_ngbaqd it’s almost sociopathic Dec 27 12:34
schestowitz Someone asked me: “What’s that acronym that ‘Waggener Edstrom’ and/or MS uses when they are on a targeted propaganda blitz, SMOG or something ?” Well, it’s the Slog (example from this morning < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/… >) But I thought the term was attributed to James P. Did anyone see W-E using this term? Is it a ‘global’ thing in MS Ecosystem? Dec 27 12:35
schestowitz If all the court evidence was in plain text, then it could be indexed and thus searched, but it’s not. :-( Dec 27 12:36
schestowitz Here is a neat HTML version:… Dec 27 12:41
mib_ngbaqd some of those .ppt files might be nice … “evangalism is war”? Dec 27 12:43
schestowitz I have bits of them and Groklaw has some too Dec 27 12:45
schestowitz This one is the best: http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.ph… Dec 27 12:45
schestowitz She published this just before the BRM, IIRC, after I had sent her this material suggesting that she exposes Rick Jelliffe-like characters. Dec 27 12:46
schestowitz http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?… “I find it telling that Microsoft had to remind the Microserfs that they are, in fact, the good guys. Because that document reads to me like “We’re the bad guys, and we’re going to use any means, ethical or unethical, to crush the competition.”” Dec 27 12:48
schestowitz “By using such concepts as evangelism and jihad, MS is aligning themselves with activities normally used by religious extremism. Jihad is a term more often associated today with terrorism. “Work for MS and become a commercial terrorist” The PDF is full of tried and tested brainwashing techniques. Apart from Microsoft, is this sort of thing generally practiced in American businesses? If so, I’m glad I don’t work there, but I’m now m Dec 27 12:48
schestowitz ore scared of what MS will do in my country than I am of going to the middle east.” Dec 27 12:48
mib_ngbaqd I love this one: “In one piece of mail people were suggesting that Office had to work equally with all browsers and that we shouldn’t force Office users to user our browser Dec 27 12:48
mib_ngbaqd This is wrong and I wanted to correct this.” Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqd nice quote there Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqd From: Bill Gates himself Dec 27 12:49
schestowitz Where is this quote of yours from? Dec 27 12:49
schestowitz mib_ngbaqd: really? Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqd http://antitrust.slated.org/www.i… Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqd check it out Dec 27 12:49
schestowitz I know about that memo about “PROPRIETARY capabilities” Dec 27 12:49
schestowitz Wait, this is new to me Dec 27 12:50
mib_ngbaqd it goes on about proprietary HTML extensions as well Dec 27 12:50
schestowitz Let me see if I have the text. Dec 27 12:50
mib_ngbaqd it’s a good one Dec 27 12:50
schestowitz Yes, but there is more than one. Dec 27 12:50
schestowitz Hold on. Dec 27 12:50
mib_ngbaqd “We want to make Trident extremely hard to clone. I think we want to patent elementts of Trident” Dec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqd and so on Dec 27 12:51
schestowitz The one I think about is shown as an image at the bottom of: http://gotthefacts.org/ Dec 27 12:51
schestowitz Scroll down Dec 27 12:51
schestowitz It’s also OCRed Dec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqd that is similar in message, but it is a different email Dec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqd check the pdf link Dec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqd it’s pretty damning straight from BillG himself Dec 27 12:52
schestowitz Wow Dec 27 12:52
schestowitz This fits a post I was going to unleash this afternoon. Dec 27 12:52
schestowitz Good find. Dec 27 12:52
schestowitz Excellent work. Dec 27 12:52
mib_ngbaqd heh. thanks Dec 27 12:52
mib_ngbaqd You can’t read that as anything but official MS policy. None of that “some divisions” working in some areas crap Dec 27 12:53
schestowitz All those memos contain a lot Dec 27 12:53
schestowitz The court didn’t use them all. Dec 27 12:54
schestowitz Microsoft settled the case WITHIN WEEKS and the evidence requested burial Dec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqd Yup. And check it out … if you put that pdf together with the one at the bottom of the page you mention Dec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqd that alone shows BillG pushing the message for 2 years Dec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqd jan 97 – dec 98 Dec 27 12:54
schestowitz The original Comes vs Microsoft site went down (pw-protected) very abruptly… no time for people to know about the settlement and arhive. Dec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqd so it’s not a once-in-a-while thing Dec 27 12:55
schestowitz Good point Dec 27 12:55
schestowitz The other messages more people are familiar with Dec 27 12:55
schestowitz We circulated it more widely. Dec 27 12:55
mib_ngbaqd I’m gonna look through those docs a bit more … i think a post of straight up BillG messages like that would be pretty powerful Dec 27 12:56
schestowitz If you read them for leisure and come across the smoke, then holler Dec 27 12:56
schestowitz There’s lots of dross and cruft in there, but the plaintiff knew what to show the judge Dec 27 12:56
schestowitz They had some accompanying notes… these are just to be treated like appendices. Dec 27 12:57
schestowitz See http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-m… Dec 27 13:08
mib_ngbaqd BillG: Dec 27 13:38
mib_ngbaqd “We should design some of our extensions explicitly so that IBM can’t run them under OS/2. We need to put real thinking into this.” Dec 27 13:38
schestowitz I turned it into a .SIG Dec 27 13:41
schestowitz I’d post it as large-sized quote on occasions Dec 27 13:41
mib_ngbaqd http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacons… Dec 27 13:41
mib_ngbaqd That’s in 91, so that shows ~8 years of the “incompatibility strategy” Dec 27 13:42
mib_ngbaqd I’m just looking for quotes straight from BillG or Ballmer on it right now Dec 27 13:42
schestowitz Excellent. Dec 27 13:44
schestowitz They rarely talk these two… Dec 27 13:47
schestowitz I don’t see them E-mailing each other directly… rarely if not never. Dec 27 13:47
mib_ngbaqd BillG (On some proposed extensions): Dec 27 13:54
mib_ngbaqd “I have decided that we should not publish these extensions. We should wait until we have a way to so a hight level of integration that will be harder for the likes of Notes, Wordperfect to achieve, and which will give Office a real advantage.” Dec 27 13:55
mib_ngbaqd http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowa… Dec 27 13:55
schestowitz Excellent, I’ll post this now. Dec 27 13:56
mib_ngbaqd And here is that one from the Russian site, except direct link to PDF: Dec 27 13:57
mib_ngbaqd http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowa… Dec 27 13:57
mib_ngbaqd That’s about office depending on proprietary IE capabilities and so on. Dec 27 13:57
schestowitz I have a longer post coming, but I’ll set focus on this one. Dec 27 13:58
mib_ngbaqd BillG: Dec 27 13:58
mib_ngbaqd “One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn’t try and make the “ACPI” extensions somewhow Windows specific.” Dec 27 13:58
mib_ngbaqd “It seemes unfortunate if we do this wrok and get our partners to do the work and the reresult is that Linux works great without hacving to do the work” Dec 27 13:59
mib_ngbaqd “…Or maybe we could patent something related to this” Dec 27 13:59
mib_ngbaqd http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowac… Dec 27 13:59
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/2… Dec 27 14:01
schestowitz mib_ngbaqd: that’s a classic (ACPI) Dec 27 14:01
schestowitz I wrote about it many times. I submitted it to Digg and it made the front page, Wikipedia article on ACPI, etc. Dec 27 14:02
schestowitz So it’s known to many more people who now disseminate this information. Dec 27 14:02
schestowitz What you do it hugely valuable in seeding knowledge about smoking guns Dec 27 14:02
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mib_ngbaqd “Bill Gates ordered to all application business units to include checking routines of operating environments and if it is Microsoft DOS, nothing will happen. Dec 27 14:05
mib_ngbaqd But if it is non-MS-DOS (such as DR-DOS), application will display messages… Dec 27 14:05
mib_ngbaqd http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iow… Dec 27 14:05
schestowitz Good one. Dec 27 14:05
schestowitz The rest is important though Dec 27 14:06
schestowitz It says “this application have been developed ans tested for MS-DOS” Dec 27 14:06
schestowitz It’s different from Brad Silverberg on actually faking errors Dec 27 14:06
mib_ngbaqd Right, just didn’t want to type the whole thing out. I’m lazy :) Dec 27 14:07
mib_ngbaqd and bad typist Dec 27 14:07
schestowitz I was going to stick with another quote Dec 27 14:07
schestowitz I have a post coming later Dec 27 14:07
schestowitz I don’t want to post too fast. Dec 27 14:07
schestowitz And I need to proofread it properly. Dec 27 14:07
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mib_ngbaqd haha … Jim Allchin: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft’ Dec 27 14:11
mib_ngbaqd http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacon… Dec 27 14:12
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schestowitz That’s a well known one. Dec 27 14:14
schestowitz There are better ones from Allchin Dec 27 14:14
schestowitz Like.. “We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger….If you’re going to kill someone, there isn’t much reason to get all worked up about it and angry. You just pull the trigger. Any discussions beforehand are a waste of time. We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger.” Dec 27 14:15
mib_ngbaqd BillG: “It hink supporting JDK 1.2 is fine and I am hard core about NOT supporting JDK 1.2″ Dec 27 14:25
mib_ngbaqd “I think supporting JDK 1.1 is fine…” Dec 27 14:25
mib_ngbaqd http://antitrust.slated.org/www…. Dec 27 14:25
schestowitz Wow Dec 27 14:26
schestowitz Like ODF Dec 27 14:26
schestowitz Same versions Dec 27 14:26
schestowitz I’ll just point out that when Microsoft declared support for ODF 1.1 people were like “What?!?! Why not 1.2?” Dec 27 14:26
mib_ngbaqd Actual code to display a “this is not MS-DOS and may void your warranty message” Dec 27 14:27
mib_ngbaqd http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowa… Dec 27 14:27
mib_ngbaqd that’s too technical for a blog post, i just think the message is funny Dec 27 14:28
schestowitz Yes Dec 27 14:29
schestowitz Reminds me of Vista jokes that show source code that’s simplified Dec 27 14:29
*schestowitz edits the text with the code :-) Dec 27 14:41
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mib_ngbaqd hey clean up that quote a little on the front page man! Dec 27 15:21
schestowitz Which one? Dec 27 15:24
schestowitz I found a typo Dec 27 15:24
schestowitz hight Dec 27 15:24
schestowitz Fixed it some minutes ago Dec 27 15:24
mib_ngbaqd so … do Dec 27 15:24
schestowitz aspell detected and underlines it. FF didn’t Dec 27 15:24
mib_ngbaqd not “so a high” … “do a high” Dec 27 15:25
schestowitz Fixed Dec 27 15:25
mib_ngbaqd there you go … you know people would rather nit-pick shit like that than debate a real point Dec 27 15:26
schestowitz Typos too? Dec 27 15:30
schestowitz I know Groklaw is paranoid about typos cause people use that to discredit the text. So she always writes something like, “for accuracy, use the PDF” Dec 27 15:31
mib_ngbaqd yeah, you have to pay attention like that, because most of the time pro-MS / pro-Novell people don’t have a real argument Dec 27 15:32
mib_ngbaqd so it’s shit like personal attacks and grammar/spelling nit-picking and such Dec 27 15:32
schestowitz I just keep my personal life more private, but schestowitz.com makes it harder to ‘pull an incognito’ Dec 27 15:33
zoobab live from Berlin Dec 27 16:24
schestowitz mib_ngbaqd: thanks for making this post possible: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/m… Dec 27 16:28
schestowitz zoobab: will you rebut OIN when you get back to Brussels? Dec 27 16:29
schestowitz Because I want to post something. Dec 27 16:29
zoobab I need to write an article about what is wron with collective shileds Dec 27 16:30
zoobab shields Dec 27 16:30
zoobab but it is Maginot Line Dec 27 16:31
zoobab I think it is a good analogy Dec 27 16:31
zoobab and good PR Dec 27 16:31
schestowitz Good PR for who? Berlin? Dec 27 16:34
schestowitz Reader: “I was just wondering if there was a MS policy on how to handle naughty tech journalists or OSS advocates, such as disrupting their forums. Tactics like, joining up and pretending to be reasonable advocates, but slowly turning weird and abusing others. In other words trolling. But we would need strong evidence of such activities and a trail leading right back to W-E.” Dec 27 16:35
schestowitz “What you should do is get some disinterested party to subscribe to a MS FUD-pack. That way they’ll have advance warning of the next wave of BS .” Dec 27 16:35
mib_ngbaqd good post Dec 27 16:36
schestowitz Thanks. I have more on the way, but I’ll keep them for later Dec 27 16:39
mib_ngbaqd typo? “momentary filp” Dec 27 16:40
trmanco http://www.digibarn.com/collections/… Dec 27 16:42
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schestowitz Just got a pointer to this front pager: http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_fu…  mailed says: “This type of stuff gets me really riled up… Meeks and Novell out to damage our community…” It’s old news. Can anyone type up a rebuttal against MSNOV go-oo? Dec 27 18:11
schestowitz Don’t touch Microsoft/Novell Go-OO. It’s a trap. Dec 27 18:13
trmanco ballnux doesn’t work pretty well >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost… Dec 27 18:41
schestowitz I’ll do a post Dec 27 18:43
schestowitz In COLA, I say nothing about SUSE Dec 27 18:44
schestowitz Keeping it invisible is the best one can do so that people don’t consider it as an option Dec 27 18:44
trmanco I can’t seem to find any good experiences today, but I’ll keep lookin Dec 27 18:45
trmanco found one Dec 27 18:46
trmanco sort of Dec 27 18:47
schestowitz Support forums are for problems. Dec 27 18:48
trmanco yes but some forums have a testimonial/experiences section Dec 27 18:49
schestowitz Oh wait! Dec 27 18:54
schestowitz It’s from 3 weeks ago! Dec 27 18:54
schestowitz That’s pre-release or 11.0 Dec 27 18:54
schestowitz Ah well.. Dec 27 18:54
trmanco dang Dec 27 18:54
trmanco I forgot to check that Dec 27 18:55
schestowitz Just FYI. It’s the beginning of mass exposition. < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/mic… > I receive some E-mails about it that are interesting but am not allowed to publish Dec 27 19:39
schestowitz Judging by the response from The ErikFU troll at COLA, he too is likely one of the TEs ((shills) Dec 27 19:39
trmanco LOL Dec 27 19:46
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seller_liar I was thinking Dec 27 19:49
trmanco th trolls suddenly exploded on COLA against you this week Dec 27 19:50
seller_liar me? Dec 27 19:50
schestowitz Go-OOXML: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/2… Dec 27 19:50
seller_liar Opensuse includes moonson Dec 27 19:51
seller_liar a mono torrent app Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz It occured to me that this would be an effective way to have people shun the Novell/MS fork of OOo Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz Call it Go-OOXML Dec 27 19:51
seller_liar http://www.monsoon-project.org Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz trmanco: they are getting badly explosed Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz *exposed Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz They may also be losing their job Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz One of the E-mail I’ve just received confirms that Microsoft has its Munchkins game a very large technology site Dec 27 19:52
trmanco seller_liar, do you consider yourself a troll? do you post on COLA? Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz seller_liar: yes, I know Dec 27 19:52
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schestowitz Novell wants Mono to succeed. Dec 27 19:52
seller_ again Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz trmanco: huh? Dec 27 19:52
seller_ Opensuse Already includes monsoon Dec 27 19:52
seller_ 11.1 Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz Lucian is not in COLA and he’s not a troll, either. Dec 27 19:53
trmanco well, if they lose there job they can finally start a new year with a new real job Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz They can’t Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz They’re f*ed Dec 27 19:53
seller_ Lucian? Dec 27 19:53
trmanco who is lucian? Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz *en? Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz I thought it was his name. Dec 27 19:53
seller_ Oh , the irc name is not my real name Dec 27 19:54
schestowitz Never mind. Dec 27 19:54
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schestowitz seller_: ah, OK Dec 27 19:54
trmanco :-P Dec 27 19:54
seller_ Explain me trmanco Dec 27 19:54
seller_ Cola trolls was attackinm me? Dec 27 19:54
trmanco no Dec 27 19:54
schestowitz seller_liar will have people prejudiced, think you are trolling by seling lies. Dec 27 19:54
trmanco COLA trolls are stacking Roy, aggressively Dec 27 19:55
trmanco attacking* Dec 27 19:55
seller_ trmanco: ok Dec 27 19:55
seller_ http://www.monsoon-project.org Dec 27 19:55
seller_ trmanco: thanks Dec 27 19:55
seller_ Mono strategy : Dec 27 19:55
seller_ Argument : best technical app using c# Dec 27 19:56
trmanco :| Dec 27 19:56
trmanco Dec 27 19:56
trmanco I didn’t even know this existed Dec 27 19:56
seller_ and then replace the current app Dec 27 19:56
seller_ Example rythmybox – > banshee Dec 27 19:56
seller_ Ubuntu torrent -> Moonson Dec 27 19:57
trmanco no ways Dec 27 19:57
seller_ trmanco: what? Dec 27 19:57
trmanco Transmission owns on my Ubuntu installation Dec 27 19:57
seller_ trmanco: But stay alert Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz trmanco: stacking too Dec 27 19:59
seller_ trmanco: Someday probably people will tell : Dec 27 19:59
trmanco schestowitz, I have to check what stacking means, it was a typo Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz Like stacking a panel, pretending to be more than they are by multi-nymming. Dec 27 19:59
seller_ “Wow , moonson is better , I do not want transmission anymore Dec 27 19:59
trmanco schestowitz, thanks, you saved me some seconds :-P Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz seller_: yes, that was predictable Dec 27 20:00
schestowitz They sponsor banshee now Dec 27 20:00
schestowitz It also become a video player Dec 27 20:00
schestowitz Search BN archives and you’ll see our posts about Windows DRM too. Dec 27 20:00
seller_ schestowitz: Yes , I know Dec 27 20:00
schestowitz seller_: they try to make non-Mono apps a second-best choice Dec 27 20:01
seller_ schestowitz: Dec 27 20:01
schestowitz It’s like selling proprietary apps based on preinstallation or temptation. Dec 27 20:01
seller_ schestowitz: yes, but the real problem is IKVM and Ja.net Dec 27 20:02
seller_ These projects tries to transform all java codebase in c# codebase Dec 27 20:02
seller_ The solution for this problem is to promove another high-level language Dec 27 20:04
seller_ and to port mono to java Dec 27 20:04
schestowitz Yes, I know. Dec 27 20:04
schestowitz What about Parrot? Dec 27 20:05
seller_ parrot is Virtual machine Dec 27 20:06
seller_ It’s not a real framework Dec 27 20:06
seller_ http://www.gnu.org/software/sather/ Dec 27 20:06
seller_ It’s a good language capable to compete with c# Dec 27 20:06
seller_ And we need to implement .net to java Dec 27 20:06
seller_ We does not permit to push all java devs to c# Dec 27 20:07
seller_ We do not Dec 27 20:07
schestowitz Sun has a project to achieve this, no? Dec 27 20:08
seller_ schestowitz: What project? Dec 27 20:09
schestowitz I thought you’d shown me something. Dec 27 20:09
seller_ I remeber , net2java Dec 27 20:10
seller_ schestowitz: But the development has been stop Dec 27 20:10
seller_ stopped Dec 27 20:10
seller_ and It’s not a real framework like jython or jruby Dec 27 20:11
seller_ It’s only a source code converter Dec 27 20:11
schestowitz Ask Sun about it. Dec 27 20:11
schestowitz With .NET, Microsoft hopes to get DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1 Dec 27 20:12
schestowitz It’s also fighting to control hypervisors and ‘clouds’ right now, in addition to formats Dec 27 20:12
seller_ schestowitz: And weakens java , and gives more power to M$ Dec 27 20:12
seller_ schestowitz: VirtualBox works in Windowz? Dec 27 20:13
schestowitz Yes, also platform discrimination and patents. Dec 27 20:13
schestowitz They use AstroTurfers to promote .NET Dec 27 20:13
schestowitz Among other technologies like XAML (Silver Lie) Dec 27 20:13
schestowitz I hope to have them busted for their illegal behviour (it breaks EU law) Dec 27 20:14
seller_ schestowitz: I know ,but M$ will never change Dec 27 20:14
seller_ seller_: Every company of this world tries to be unique Dec 27 20:15
seller_ schestowitz: Every company of this world tries to be unique Dec 27 20:15
seller_ schestowitz: For example , Intel conquer all processors market Dec 27 20:15
schestowitz Some break laws; some don;t Dec 27 20:15
schestowitz Microsoft violates EU laws. Dec 27 20:15
seller_ schestowitz: and then Intel tries to conquer all vga market Dec 27 20:16
schestowitz It should be fined or embargoed. I have lots of evidence. Dec 27 20:16
seller_ schestowitz: I know , but there are a lot of lobby Dec 27 20:16
schestowitz In fact, class action lawsuit can be organised by their victims. Dec 27 20:16
schestowitz Lobby should be illegal too Dec 27 20:16
schestowitz FFII doesn’t agree with me Dec 27 20:16
schestowitz Lobby=legalised corruption Dec 27 20:16
seller_ schestowitz: Lobby is a crime Dec 27 20:17
schestowitz It’s like that Kissinger-type mafia-wannabe politics Dec 27 20:17
seller_ schestowitz: It’s a way to put all company desires over community and societyty desires Dec 27 20:17
schestowitz Or Abramoff Dec 27 20:17
schestowitz Practical crimes!= ethical crimes Dec 27 20:18
schestowitz Remember who writes (buys) the law . ;-) Dec 27 20:18
seller_ Lobby should be considered a crime Dec 27 20:19
seller_ We don t never support lobby Dec 27 20:19
seller_ I was thinking ….. Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz There are rules on limitation, but they are poorly enforced Dec 27 20:20
seller_ A m$ shill is : Dec 27 20:20
seller_ Pro intel Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz In the UK for example… Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz Intel has its own army of lobbyists Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz I used to track it more closely in Intel’s case and I have proof Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz I wrote this yesterday: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008/… Dec 27 20:21
seller_ How to detect a m$ shill Dec 27 20:22
seller_ He likes intel Dec 27 20:22
seller_ He hates firefox Dec 27 20:22
seller_ and he hates free movement (not only opensource movement) Dec 27 20:22
seller_ A lot of m$ shills hates stallman Dec 27 20:23
schestowitz Yes Dec 27 20:23
schestowitz They try to poison people against him Dec 27 20:23
schestowitz This makes him a taboo for some Dec 27 20:24
schestowitz It they glue labels like “communism” onto him, then they hope that others will dissociate themselves from GNU. Dec 27 20:24
seller_ Comunnism are words of m$ to try to destroy free movement Dec 27 20:25
seller_ free software is not communism Dec 27 20:25
seller_ It’s only fair reason: Dec 27 20:25
seller_ software is not a material thing,  it ‘s only a materialized idea Dec 27 20:26
schestowitz It’s the opposite Dec 27 20:27
schestowitz Free software is democracy Dec 27 20:27
schestowitz Communism is having no choice. Dec 27 20:28
MinceR what can i show m$ fanboys who repeat the “equally evil” argument? Dec 27 20:28
seller_ proprietary software is communism Dec 27 20:28
schestowitz MinceR: lots Dec 27 20:28
schestowitz They use their shills to sing this. Dec 27 20:28
seller_ MinceR: Try to count how many attacks some company does Dec 27 20:28
seller_ For example , novell is evil , but M$ is a LOT more evil Dec 27 20:29
schestowitz Good essay: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/20… Dec 27 20:29
seller_ seller_: MinceR :Try to explain the real intention of company Dec 27 20:30
seller_ MinceR: For example , some troll tries to explain what is Sun is evil Dec 27 20:30
schestowitz Microsoft’s man in Europe carries communist-era baggage < http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto… > Dec 27 20:30
seller_ MinceR: Sun is not evil , because Sun have good intentions about free software Dec 27 20:31
schestowitz seller_: they sell hardware Dec 27 20:31
seller_ MinceR: But m$ has not, instead , m$ have bad intentions Dec 27 20:31
schestowitz OpenSolaris they are hoping to bundle with servers. Dec 27 20:31
seller_ schestowitz: But OpenSolaris is very memor consuming Dec 27 20:32
schestowitz Microsoft has h/w like mice and some disasters like XBox and Zune that lose $billions Dec 27 20:32
MinceR sun doesn’t have good intentions about all free software Dec 27 20:32
schestowitz So Microsoft was never able to succeed at the h/w business. Dec 27 20:32
schestowitz That’s why it attacks F/OSS Dec 27 20:32
schestowitz Microsoft lets Dell et al choke on thin (razer-thin) margins. Dec 27 20:33
schestowitz Brainwash of choice: tubes… http://www.itwire.com/content/view/22479/1054/ (U.S. uses Internet over newspapers, but TV still tops) Dec 27 20:35
schestowitz Apple’s next hot product: the iLoo < http://www.deviceguru.com/apples-next-… > Dec 27 20:36
schestowitz A good place for dropping the iX where they belong… and flush. Dec 27 20:37
MinceR yes, but how do you get rid of the iLoo? Dec 27 20:40
trmanco I’ve just posted some experiences on COLA Dec 27 20:43
trmanco this time Linux Mint 6 Dec 27 20:43
schestowitz MinceR: it sucks itself in Dec 27 20:44
schestowitz Like a toilet on a plane Dec 27 20:44
MinceR that’s nice Dec 27 20:53
MinceR best feature in a crApple product ever Dec 27 20:54
trmanco what do you prefer? POP or IMAP ? Dec 27 20:57
MinceR depends on what for Dec 27 20:57
trmanco email Dec 27 20:57
trmanco personal email Dec 27 20:57
MinceR i prefer POP3 to fetch all my mail onto my personal imap server Dec 27 20:58
MinceR and i prefer IMAP to access it there Dec 27 20:58
schestowitz This guy could use an iLoo: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/… Dec 27 20:58
schestowitz “APPLE MESSIAH Steve Jobs has been a bit sick lately but according to US gossip reports it could be a lot worse than anyone thought. The sultan of smug has been seen parking his motor in a disabled carparks in Palo-Alto much to the horror of Apple fans who believe him to be capable of healing the sick with his beautiful entertainment toys.” Dec 27 20:58
seller_ schestowitz Why to a be a fan of monster of business? Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz Money Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz Monsters befriend monsters Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz Then they perfume it to themselves Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz “I’m just writing code” Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz “I’m just carrying an artillery shell” Dec 27 21:01
schestowitz “I’m just flying CIA sharpshooters in a helicopter” Dec 27 21:01
seller_ schestowitz: Money transforms monster in prince via brainwashing Dec 27 21:01
schestowitz “I’m just annoying people with telemarketing call so that I can feed my baby” Dec 27 21:01
trmanco grr Dec 27 21:04
trmanco my bnc went offline for a couple of minutes Dec 27 21:04
schestowitz bnc? Dec 27 21:07
schestowitz Just got this: “”Yeah, Meeks has been out to do as much damage as he can to OOo.  I’m not sure what his motivation is but it does not matter. What is a good approach to neutralize his rants?”” Dec 27 21:28
schestowitz “In general, MS proxies have been running such campaigns against Sun. OOo is hurting MS more than most people could ever imagine. OpenDocument Format is only a small part of that.  OOo marketing needs to put down Meeks, warn of the dangers in his fork of OOo, and steer people to the real OOo.” Dec 27 21:29
schestowitz I got some E-mails about Debian too. But it must remain private Dec 27 21:29
schestowitz “Unfortunately, Debian is going to become the battle ground, if it has not already.  Same for KDE.” Dec 27 21:29
trmanco schestowitz, yes a bouncer, psyBNC Dec 27 21:30
trmanco http://www.gnome.org/~michael/bl… Dec 27 21:39
schestowitz Is this the old one? Dec 27 21:40
trmanco “Why is my bug not fixed ? why is the UI still so unpleasant ? why is performance still poor ? why does it consume more memory than necessary ? why is it getting slower to start ? why ? why ? – the answer lies with developers: Will you help us make OpenOffice.org better ? if so, probably the best place to get started is by playing with go-oo.org and getting in touch, please mail us. “ Dec 27 21:40
trmanco don’t know Dec 27 21:40
schestowitz FUD Dec 27 21:41
trmanco it’s on digg Dec 27 21:41
schestowitz Yes, I know Dec 27 21:41
schestowitz I wonder who Dugg this very old news Dec 27 21:41
trmanco my bouncer went offline again :( Dec 27 21:41
trmanco 650 diggs Dec 27 21:41
schestowitz I submitted a rebuttal at the time and it got about 90 Diggs Dec 27 21:41
trmanco don’t like the first comments so far Dec 27 21:41
schestowitz I posted a comment, but too late Dec 27 21:41
trmanco found a good one Dec 27 21:43
trmanco “I’m not buying this either. This is another attempt by Microsoft to come through the backdoor. Remember the Microsoft strategy: embrace, extend, exterminate. They’ve already ‘embraced’ open source by admitting that it is a threat. They tried to ‘extend’ it by making patent-protection deals (read: extortion) with companies like Novell, Xandros, Linspire, etc. and now they want to exterminate projects like OO.o by convincing developers to fight am Dec 27 21:43
trmanco ongst themselves and work on alternatives like Novell’s go-oo.org. Don’t believe ANYONE who works for a Linux or OSS company deals with Microsoft. They aren’t out to help OSS. Microsoft wants to control it and kill it (regardless of what they tell you in their press releases). This is a classic trojan horse. “ Dec 27 21:43
trmanco finally Dec 27 21:44
schestowitz Haha. http://shanghaiist.com/2008/12/27/chinese_n… So it’s kinda like the US, but it’s “them”, not “us” (or “US”). So when does the Republic of the People buy GM and Citigroup? Dec 27 21:46
*seller_ has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Dec 27 21:49
schestowitz OK, I’ve left another comment: “A change is still being negotiated. Things have happened since it all blew up (Kohei solver). A better name for Go-OO would be MS-Go-OO-XML. Novell was a promoter of OOXML and Microsoft used this to ram it down ISO’s throat.” Dec 27 21:54
schestowitz “I suppose you don’t think about the patents associated with it and the Mono (.NET). It’s an attack on Java too, to elevate the Microsoft API. There is also a good chance that Microsoft will buy Novell some time in the future, along with its copyrighted assets that include many GNU/Linux programs. “ Dec 27 21:54
schestowitz “They would also buy out the WordPerfect lawsuit that way (about a third of Novell’s market cap). Based on Sun’s word, Go-OO is a fork. Novell’s friends would try to deny this.” Dec 27 21:54
trmanco :) Dec 27 21:56
*kapipi has quit (“Ah Nah!”) Dec 27 22:25
*kapipi (n=tor@ has joined #boycottnovell Dec 27 22:33
schestowitz The Gartner Gang must be paid lots of money from Novell/Microsoft to produce this propaganda: http://www.moreinterop.com/download.aspx… Dec 27 23:50
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