IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 23rd, 2009 - Part 1

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2009-01-24 11:41:33 UTC
Modified: 2009-01-24 11:41:33 UTC

schestowitz	MSBBC sees its sponsor/sugar daddy losing it: "down 11% on last year and less than analysts' expectations." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/busi...	Jan 23 00:01
schestowitz	Satyam Inflated Employee Figures to Siphon Cash < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158136/s... >	Jan 23 00:17
schestowitz	Bailing out lie and spin tellers?? < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8147 > ( Government Bailout for Journalism? )	Jan 23 00:33
schestowitz	Microsoft is afraid of saying Linux kills it	Jan 23 00:42
schestowitz	It blamed "netbooks"	Jan 23 00:42
schestowitz	Nobody forced Microsoft to sell Windows for just $5 to be put on these...	Jan 23 00:42
schestowitz	It's because of Linux that it has no choice but to do this. With EDGI likewise.......	Jan 23 00:43
schestowitz	http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/... "Janis Krums was heading to New Jersey on a ferry when he clicked a snapshot with his iPhone of US Airways Flight 1549 partially submerged in the Hudson River. He uploaded the picture to his Twitter account and then forgot about it as he assisted in the rescue of the plane's passengers."	Jan 23 00:45
schestowitz	http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mi... "What does BILL GATES have to say about all this??"	Jan 23 00:46
schestowitz	Microsoft considers moving 30 percent of vendors off-site < http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/a... >	Jan 23 00:47
schestowitz	Censorship fanaticism at the Vole: http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2009/0... "Administrivia: moderation turned off in the near term - note that I will delete"	Jan 23 00:54
schestowitz	http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micros... "Just how many contractors who work for Microsoft will lose their jobs? Microsoft will not comment. But the tally is probably close to if not more than 5,000."	Jan 23 00:55
schestowitz	More than initially reported. Maybe even 15,000 will lose their job, like Fuszilla first predicted	Jan 23 00:55
schestowitz	*Fudzilla	Jan 23 00:55
schestowitz	Microsoft's buddies blame Vista: http://www.cnet.com/8301-13846_1-10148166-62.htm... (Gartner: Blame Vista for Microsoft layoffs)	Jan 23 00:57
schestowitz	The Cost of Fearing Strangers < http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01... >	Jan 23 01:04
schestowitz	Obamaism.. http://miserableswine.com/2009/01/22/a...	Jan 23 01:07
schestowitz	Cites BoycottNovell	Jan 23 01:07
schestowitz	"Note the avoidance of the "L" word, "Linux"--ed." http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn... Yes, Microsoft blames "netbooks", not that 'thing' that runs on them and leads Microsoft to dumping	Jan 23 01:22
schestowitz	http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft_plann... "Microsoft doesn't report publicly the number of contractors who work for the company through job agencies." So it does not disclose its AstroTurfing activities, either (we have some of them showing up in BN).	Jan 23 01:39
schestowitz	Obama's Mac-savvy team lands in Microsoft hell at White House < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Obamas_... >	Jan 23 01:40
*Omar87 has quit ("Leaving.")		Jan 23 01:47
schestowitz	http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/arti... "Asustek Chairman Jonney Shih has predicted that about 60 percent of Eee PCs to be shipped in 2009 will have Windows XP."	Jan 23 02:05
schestowitz	40% for GNU/Linux in 2009 then..	Jan 23 02:06
*kapipi has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Jan 23 02:11
schestowitz	http://www.fsf.org/events/20090122troy "2009-01-22 from 17:00 to 19:00"	Jan 23 02:16
schestowitz	http://www.itwire.com/content/view/22816/1090/ "Most of the Sugar code is released under the GPL version 2 with little bits being under GPLv3."	Jan 23 02:34
schestowitz	One of the Microsoft Moles is again flogging Windows 7ap0rware... all the usual suspects a-humming.	Jan 23 02:34
schestowitz	http://www.olpcnews.com/software/suga...	Jan 23 02:35
schestowitz	http://linux-hardcore.com/index.php?... "Can you believe that somebody has even posted a screenshot tour on Digg............. even though the only difference from 8.10 is the wallpaper."	Jan 23 02:37
balzac	I've got a good old friend whose dad works at M$	Jan 23 02:47
schestowitz	Is that a good thing?	Jan 23 02:48
balzac	I should have a conversation with him sometime about software licensing	Jan 23 02:48
balzac	well, I figure Microsoft is going to change one way or the other. It'll be the hard way, not the easy way.	Jan 23 02:48
schestowitz	Web-based...	Jan 23 02:49
schestowitz	But that's like a hippo trying to be a zebra	Jan 23 02:49
balzac	They'll have to be more service-oriented and accept the new software landscape	Jan 23 02:49
balzac	well they're not going away, but they are going to shrink and look something like IBM after they fell off their pedestal	Jan 23 02:49
schestowitz	Yes	Jan 23 02:50
schestowitz	There will be more layoffs I reckon	Jan 23 02:50
balzac	They'll have to accept that their legacy of innovation is mostly all garbage. Their best program is excel.	Jan 23 02:50
schestowitz	10,000+ so far perhaps	Jan 23 02:50
balzac	the rest is trash.	Jan 23 02:50
balzac	yeah	Jan 23 02:50
balzac	Ok, to be fair, M$ has bought a few innovative companies along the way	Jan 23 02:50
schestowitz	I've dug up this gem: http://www.mercurynews.com/newsspeci...	Jan 23 02:50
schestowitz	"Just how many contractors who work for Microsoft will lose their jobs? Microsoft will not comment. But the tally is probably close to if not more than 5,000."	Jan 23 02:51
balzac	but who wants their standards-renegging trash-ware?	Jan 23 02:51
schestowitz	http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micro...	Jan 23 02:51
schestowitz	Want?	Jan 23 02:51
schestowitz	Nobody wants.	Jan 23 02:51
schestowitz	Microsoft tends to force people	Jan 23 02:51
balzac	they could release some driver C code maybe.	Jan 23 02:51
schestowitz	They receive attahments.	Jan 23 02:51
balzac	yeah	Jan 23 02:51
schestowitz	Or landf on HackTiveHacks sites that say they must use WIn+IE	Jan 23 02:52
balzac	It's mostly all a big trash-heap of lame software.	Jan 23 02:52
balzac	Excel is still the best at what it does.	Jan 23 02:52
schestowitz	It had branding	Jan 23 02:52
balzac	what else is good?	Jan 23 02:52
schestowitz	Vista injured the brand	Jan 23 02:52
schestowitz	So try to call it Vista 7 ;-)	Jan 23 02:52
schestowitz	Or BetaVista 7	Jan 23 02:52
balzac	That photo-panorama software	Jan 23 02:52
schestowitz	It's Vista... and it's BETA... again	Jan 23 02:52
schestowitz	That photo sofwtare is Linux	Jan 23 02:53
balzac	It's Vista, product-recall edition	Jan 23 02:53
schestowitz	It WAS, originally	Jan 23 02:53
schestowitz	PhotoSynth.	Jan 23 02:53
schestowitz	It ran on Ubuntu	Jan 23 02:53
schestowitz	Microsoft stole it from Linux	Jan 23 02:53
balzac	right, they acquired it, they didn't make it.	Jan 23 02:53
schestowitz	I wrote about it in BN	Jan 23 02:53
balzac	yeah, so I figure they need to basically let all their legacy trash-code go onto the trash-heap of history	Jan 23 02:53
balzac	like apple let go of OS9 and below	Jan 23 02:54
balzac	their OS is just trash	Jan 23 02:54
schestowitz	"Usually Microsoft doesn't develop products, we buy products. It's not a bad product, but bits and pieces are missing." --Arno Edelmann, Microsoft's European business security product manager	Jan 23 02:54
balzac	*nix is superior	Jan 23 02:54
balzac	They'll have years ahead of them of "eating their own dogfood", supporting their legacy crap	Jan 23 02:54
schestowitz	They can't	Jan 23 02:55
balzac	but they'll have to deal with the fact they've been left behind	Jan 23 02:55
schestowitz	It won't last for long	Jan 23 02:55
schestowitz	They lose their fight against critical mass	Jan 23 02:55
schestowitz	Why do you think their profit fell by double-digit %?	Jan 23 02:55
schestowitz	They dumped against GNU/Linux	Jan 23 02:55
schestowitz	EDGI, $5 WIndow XP for "netbooks"...	Jan 23 02:55
balzac	right	Jan 23 02:55
balzac	EDGI = what?	Jan 23 02:56
schestowitz	You don't know?	Jan 23 02:56
schestowitz	I thought you read FSD	Jan 23 02:56
balzac	Embrace ...	Jan 23 02:56
schestowitz	Hold on.	Jan 23 02:56
schestowitz	You must catch up with this.	Jan 23 02:56
schestowitz	It's a long series: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/16/edg...	Jan 23 02:57
balzac	well, I read the most sensational headlines regarding M$. I spend most of my time reading things I can use. I have a lot of learning to do to become a competent sysadmin	Jan 23 02:57
schestowitz	This is the last part, many links at the top to previous part. Pass on to inform people. It made the front page of Slashdot too (about 15 GB of traffic)	Jan 23 02:57
balzac	ok	Jan 23 02:57
schestowitz	We might make front page of Digg in the morning.	Jan 23 02:58
schestowitz	http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_Tas...	Jan 23 02:58
balzac	About time.	Jan 23 02:58
balzac	You guys drew a line in the sand and stuck to it. It's going to be nice when Novell collapses.	Jan 23 02:59
schestowitz	It happens once ina few months... same with /.	Jan 23 02:59
schestowitz	Smid talked about Novell reductions	Jan 23 02:59
schestowitz	He jumped ship some weeks ago	Jan 23 02:59
schestowitz	So, you know...........	Jan 23 02:59
balzac	sweet	Jan 23 02:59
balzac	That's one reason I love to read BN - hearing the dire news of Microsoft's troubles.	Jan 23 03:00
balzac	It will be quite satisfying to watch their archaic business model finally collapse onto it's self	Jan 23 03:01
balzac	Bill Gates talked too much trash about the GPL	Jan 23 03:01
balzac	Now he's going to watch GPL-licensed software destroy their company like tide dissolving a sand castle.	Jan 23 03:02
balzac	I've got to reload my browser	Jan 23 03:02
balzac	I have driver issues on my eee pc	Jan 23 03:02
balzac	also, brb, got to go out for a few	Jan 23 03:02
*schestowitz got distratcded		Jan 23 03:03
schestowitz	Microsoft's troubles are having journos scared	Jan 23 03:03
schestowitz	They can't cover it properly	Jan 23 03:03
schestowitz	I wrote about this in the morning	Jan 23 03:04
schestowitz	.They try getting reporters sacked	Jan 23 03:04
schestowitz	Say the truth about their financials and be called names in Web forums	Jan 23 03:04
schestowitz	You might also have them allege that you're transgendered or something if you say too many things that are true and they can't counter because it's embarrassing truth	Jan 23 03:04
schestowitz	Gates Foundation is just one among many examples that make taboos	Jan 23 03:05
balzac	That's good news.	Jan 23 03:19
balzac	Microsoftie tears are crisp, sweet and satisfying.	Jan 23 03:19
balzac	Ok, now I need to read about this EDGI	Jan 23 03:19
schestowitz	Let me know what you think	Jan 23 03:20
schestowitz	It's over 100 pages if you go deep	Jan 23 03:20
schestowitz	I had the (dis)pleasure of processing the whole thing... quite a project	Jan 23 03:20
balzac	Sheesh	Jan 23 03:20
balzac	A good friend of mine is a corporate lawyer. He has to deal with piles of paper.	Jan 23 03:21
balzac	I couldn't face it without adderol	Jan 23 03:21
schestowitz	Paper is bad	Jan 23 03:23
schestowitz	Paging too	Jan 23 03:23
schestowitz	If you have something like Wikipedia, then you work fast without pagination.	Jan 23 03:23
schestowitz	Glossary and all that arcane stuff is out the door..	Jan 23 03:23
balzac	edgi is their coordinated dumping strategy, combined with bribing and arm-twisting of public officials?	Jan 23 03:29
balzac	what does the acronym stand for?	Jan 23 03:29
schestowitz	It has several acronyms	Jan 23 03:30
schestowitz	See the first pare	Jan 23 03:30
schestowitz	*part	Jan 23 03:30
schestowitz	It's also known to THE PUBLIC as "Unlimited Potential", though that's a superset in some sorts of ways	Jan 23 03:30
schestowitz	Or a new identity that's a marketing thing, not a predatory business scheme	Jan 23 03:30
balzac	I was contracting at this financial services company in manhattan	Jan 23 03:34
balzac	There was this guy going on and on about Citrix	Jan 23 03:34
balzac	I said it was an abomination to run *nix operating system as a VM on top of windows	Jan 23 03:35
balzac	Microsoft is poisoning the Xen virtualization software as we	Jan 23 03:35
balzac	well	Jan 23 03:35
balzac	I think citrix bought xen or something. MS is invested heavily in Citrix	Jan 23 03:35
balzac	I'm looking to make some bread from brokering software roll-outs for financial services companies.	Jan 23 03:36
balzac	I think I'll get RedHat certification to help my credibility in that area.	Jan 23 03:36
balzac	Since the NYSE Global Trading Platform will run on RedHat, that's something serious to brag abuot.	Jan 23 03:37
balzac	about	Jan 23 03:37
balzac	Where are you located, BTW?	Jan 23 03:37
balzac	Education and Government Incentives [EDGI] program	Jan 23 03:39
balzac	I get it now, it's their strategy of bribing public officials to place M$ into schools and governments.	Jan 23 03:40
balzac	and dumping	Jan 23 03:40
balzac	They want to get at the captive audience of school kids and government contracts	Jan 23 03:40
schestowitz	I know (abotu Xen)	Jan 23 03:41
schestowitz	It was supposed to ruin Xen... you know the XenSource story?	Jan 23 03:41
balzac	only a little	Jan 23 03:41
schestowitz	They had an investment from what seems like an MS proxy.	Jan 23 03:41
schestowitz	Then a Microsoft General Manager took some charge	Jan 23 03:41
balzac	fill me in because I'm going to be using your opposition research as a consultant	Jan 23 03:41
schestowitz	They moved near to MS (Seattle) and then swallowed by Microsoft's bribe	Jan 23 03:42
schestowitz	Red Hat needed to buy KVM	Jan 23 03:42
schestowitz	balzac: I'm in the UK	Jan 23 03:42
balzac	Ok	Jan 23 03:42
schestowitz	EDGI = sentimental blackmail	Jan 23 03:43
schestowitz	In /some/ sense.	Jan 23 03:43
schestowitz	"help us help your children.. with cigs"	Jan 23 03:43
balzac	heheh	Jan 23 03:43
balzac	How's the PhD program going?	Jan 23 03:45
schestowitz	I need to make a picture	Jan 23 03:45
schestowitz	A kid with smoke in his face.	Jan 23 03:45
schestowitz	Saying something like "I need to get out for another Windows"	Jan 23 03:46
schestowitz	http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/ar...	Jan 23 03:46
balzac	I'd compare Microsoft software with Soviet Russia	Jan 23 03:46
balzac	So big, cumbersome and archaic.	Jan 23 03:46
balzac	totalitarian, centralized, oppressive, stifling innovation and freedom.	Jan 23 03:47
schestowitz	China?	Jan 23 03:47
balzac	Well, China, sadly has been embracing M$ like almost no other country.	Jan 23 03:48
balzac	I think there are a couple reasons for this	Jan 23 03:48
balzac	India is more literate in English	Jan 23 03:48
balzac	Also, China relies on strong centralized control and M$ supports that.	Jan 23 03:49
schestowitz	China wants its own OS now	Jan 23 03:49
schestowitz	Billie does politics full time now though	Jan 23 03:49
balzac	But Soviet Russia is a good comparison because it signals the imminent collapse and the non-sustainable business model of M$	Jan 23 03:49
schestowitz	He went to China to market Windows to the communist government right after his 'retirement'	Jan 23 03:49
schestowitz	Does that make Ballmer Stalin?	Jan 23 03:50
balzac	You know, I thought the only way M$ could continue is from being subsidized by a totalitarian government. Software as a tool of oppression.	Jan 23 03:50
schestowitz	WTF?? http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8716	Jan 23 03:51
balzac	If M$ is not solvent in the "free world" or western countries, maybe M$ can be subsidized by totalitarian governments like China in order to lock down any software-driven social movements.	Jan 23 03:51
schestowitz	http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8332	Jan 23 03:52
schestowitz	That's the one I looked for	Jan 23 03:52
balzac	I wrote on Change.gov that the Obama administration should be thankful for free software for driving the online social phenomena which were at the heart of his online campaign.	Jan 23 03:52
schestowitz	He won't read it	Jan 23 03:53
schestowitz	He's too busy memorising speeches	Jan 23 03:53
balzac	well, I was needling his IT staff	Jan 23 03:54
schestowitz	You know how change.org works...	Jan 23 03:54
balzac	I was asking "where's the source code?" What software is this? Why is it such a nuiscance to deep-link to my own comments?	Jan 23 03:54
balzac	probably not so differently from moveon.org	Jan 23 03:55
balzac	or dailykos.com	Jan 23 03:55
balzac	centrally-controlled grassroots	Jan 23 03:55
balzac	I've got something interesting for you to ponder, a little story to share	Jan 23 03:55
balzac	I'll keep it succinct	Jan 23 03:55
schestowitz	If {{application.Role!="CEO"} \|\| {company_size_ppl<1000000}} >> /dev/null/	Jan 23 03:55
balzac	looks like shell script	Jan 23 03:56
schestowitz	Yeah, I mixed some	Jan 23 03:56
balzac	ok, DailyKos.com	Jan 23 03:56
schestowitz	I know it	Jan 23 03:56
balzac	you know about it, Markos Moulitsas?	Jan 23 03:56
schestowitz	I posted interviews with the founder i BN	Jan 23 03:56
schestowitz	Yes	Jan 23 03:56
balzac	well, I used to be about as prolific a blogger as you, but I was focused on impeaching Bush	Jan 23 03:57
balzac	I got banned 25 times from DailyKos.com	Jan 23 03:57
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/ind...	Jan 23 03:57
schestowitz	But DailyKos is /against/ Bush.	Jan 23 03:57
balzac	yes, but not quite	Jan 23 03:58
balzac	markos was always against impeachment	Jan 23 03:58
balzac	so in that sense, he was for Bush	Jan 23 03:58
balzac	also, he applied for work with the CIA	Jan 23 03:59
balzac	so how did it fall in his lap?	Jan 23 03:59
schestowitz	He was in the army	Jan 23 03:59
balzac	it didn't, members of congress appointed Markos as our dictator, in the sense the Roman senate would appoint a dictator to an occupied region	Jan 23 03:59
balzac	but it's not like they took a vote, but they voted with their participation	Jan 23 04:00
balzac	they gave dailykos the nearly exclusive access to their blogging	Jan 23 04:00
balzac	if you wanted online contact with your democratic representative, it could only really come through dailykos	Jan 23 04:00
balzac	eventually, HuffingtonPost started getting some members of congress blogging there	Jan 23 04:01
balzac	But Kos had Kennedy, Kerry, Clinton, Obama once or twice,	Jan 23 04:01
balzac	there's a very long list of democratic congressmen who blogged on DailyKos	Jan 23 04:02
balzac	so they gave markos that power to be the gate-keeper	Jan 23 04:02
balzac	It's ironic, his book was "crashing the gates" but he really was our appointed gate-keeper	Jan 23 04:02
balzac	he didn't crash sh!t	Jan 23 04:02
balzac	his was not the first installation of Scoop to be used as a political forum	Jan 23 04:03
balzac	that was another blog by Jerome Armstrong, I think. It's called MyDD	Jan 23 04:03
schestowitz	I heard of it	Jan 23 04:03
schestowitz	I know just his own take	Jan 23 04:03
schestowitz	Not the critics	Jan 23 04:03
balzac	so, it reminds me a hell of a lot of how Linus Torvalds usurped the GNU project with his Linux Kernel project	Jan 23 04:04
balzac	Linus is ok with DRM	Jan 23 04:04
balzac	Linus' little project gained the support of big companies which made him our appointed leader in a way	Jan 23 04:04
balzac	just as Markos' little project gained the support of all these members of congress which appointed him to dictate to us	Jan 23 04:05
balzac	Kucinich was left out in the cold	Jan 23 04:05
balzac	Kos would always bash Kucinich	Jan 23 04:05
schestowitz	Yes.	Jan 23 04:05
balzac	in the same manner Linus Torvalds would bash RMS	Jan 23 04:05
schestowitz	Linus had no beard	Jan 23 04:05
schestowitz	So GNU was suddenly OK	Jan 23 04:05
schestowitz	They groomed him and his name (Linus with an X)	Jan 23 04:06
schestowitz	IBM can't have a front man who says that Bush should be sentenced to prison	Jan 23 04:06
balzac	and all these corporations knew they had a "yes" man in Torvalds, so that project got all the support while the HURD languished	Jan 23 04:06
balzac	likewise, the congressional weasels knew they had a yes man in Markos Moulitsas, so they made his site the portal for online access to members of congress.	Jan 23 04:07
balzac	Ok, so there's another interesting connection	Jan 23 04:07
balzac	Former governor of Vermont...	Jan 23 04:07
balzac	what's his name...	Jan 23 04:07
balzac	Howard Dean	Jan 23 04:08
balzac	he set up a platform based on Drupal for political organizers	Jan 23 04:08
balzac	It's called Civic Space	Jan 23 04:08
balzac	Drupal is run by Dries Buytaert	Jan 23 04:09
balzac	That was spawned from the forum for Linux Kernel developers, KernelTrap.org	Jan 23 04:09
schestowitz	Drupal?	Jan 23 04:10
balzac	So you can see some indirect social contact - Markos - Howard Dean - Buytaert - Torvalds	Jan 23 04:10
balzac	Drupal is the strongest PHP CMS. I use it every day.	Jan 23 04:10
balzac	GPLv2 license	Jan 23 04:10
schestowitz	WordPress is bigger for blogging/CMS to an extent	Jan 23 04:10
balzac	It's not bigger for the biggest projects	Jan 23 04:10
balzac	WordPress and Joomla might be installed more, but that's because they're simpler and less powerful.	Jan 23 04:11
balzac	Drupal has the center of gravity of serious developers. It's the best general-integration platform.	Jan 23 04:11
balzac	Anyway, Scoop used to be the best User Moderated Forum software	Jan 23 04:12
balzac	it was based on Slashcode, I think	Jan 23 04:12
balzac	based on Slashdot	Jan 23 04:12
balzac	But markos put the Scoop devs on his payroll and kept all the improvements to Scoop for his private version of Scoop	Jan 23 04:12
schestowitz	Oh, that's dead..	Jan 23 04:12
schestowitz	SourceForge etc.	Jan 23 04:12
balzac	and he solicited piles of money to do that	Jan 23 04:12
schestowitz	Waning I think	Jan 23 04:13
balzac	yeah, and he never gave anything back to Scoop	Jan 23 04:13
schestowitz	Not traffic-wise... but it has competition	Jan 23 04:13
balzac	Scoop is way dead	Jan 23 04:13
balzac	the only decent version of Scoop is DailyKos	Jan 23 04:13
balzac	and it's probably a crufty mess at this point	Jan 23 04:13
schestowitz	I know he spoke about it in the interview	Jan 23 04:13
balzac	So Markos announces he's going to release the ultimate blogging platform in the world, DailyKos 4.0	Jan 23 04:13
schestowitz	BN is still growing	Jan 23 04:13
schestowitz	Almost doubled this month (month2month)	Jan 23 04:14
balzac	wait, which interview?	Jan 23 04:14
schestowitz	I showed you links	Jan 23 04:14
schestowitz	To Oggss......	Jan 23 04:14
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/inde...	Jan 23 04:14
balzac	yeah, I scanned them but my stinkin eee PC chokes sometimes	Jan 23 04:14
balzac	markos is being interviewed>	Jan 23 04:15
balzac	?	Jan 23 04:15
schestowitz	Yes	Jan 23 04:15
schestowitz	Christian interview him	Jan 23 04:15
schestowitz	He mentioned this interview to me some months ago... I can't recall the context	Jan 23 04:16
balzac	Ok, what is the title?	Jan 23 04:16
balzac	Markos mentioned you?	Jan 23 04:16
balzac	I'm trying to find it because I want to read it.	Jan 23 04:17
balzac	Anyway, Markos doesn't get free software, he's a tool.	Jan 23 04:17
balzac	he's a "hoarder" who has "piles of money" but no credibility in the free software community.	Jan 23 04:17
schestowitz	No, he doesn't know me.	Jan 23 04:18
schestowitz	True, he doesn't get FOSS	Jan 23 04:19
balzac	Ok, I'm still trying to find which of those search results contains the interview	Jan 23 04:19
schestowitz	He says something about this in the interview	Jan 23 04:19
schestowitz	To him it's just a tool.	Jan 23 04:19
schestowitz	How does he get funded to blog?	Jan 23 04:19
schestowitz	Just advertising? I very much doubt it	Jan 23 04:19
schestowitz	BN has a 'revenue' of $50 that goes in part to the host	Jan 23 04:20
balzac	He could be getting money on the side, but don't doubt that his ad-income is substantial.	Jan 23 04:20
balzac	no man, he gets orders of magnitude more traffic than BN	Jan 23 04:20
balzac	especially during election cycles	Jan 23 04:20
balzac	the dude is a made man. Piles of money.	Jan 23 04:21
balzac	also, his enforcers on his website are political hacks	Jan 23 04:22
balzac	like the chief of staff of a governor, for instance - one of the biggest assholes on the site who would brow-beat impeachment campaigners	Jan 23 04:22
balzac	they get paid too	Jan 23 04:23
schestowitz	I can imagine...	Jan 23 04:23
balzac	anyway, so you have RMS backing Kucinich	Jan 23 04:23
schestowitz	But he doesn't seem like a bad guy.	Jan 23 04:23
balzac	you have Kos backing anyone but Kucinich	Jan 23 04:23
schestowitz	Politicians are	Jan 23 04:23
balzac	Kos is a prick, he's not Darth Vader, he's not Satan, but he is a prick.	Jan 23 04:24
balzac	His guys went after me in some very nasty ways.	Jan 23 04:24
schestowitz	How so?	Jan 23 04:25
balzac	Anyway, that's my tale on how the free software community, open source business alliance, and the online democratic political fund-raising free-speech zones are related.	Jan 23 04:25
schestowitz	Can't be literally... O'Gara style.	Jan 23 04:25
balzac	You'd have to read how he writes about Kucinich	Jan 23 04:26
balzac	It's the same disdainful attitude of Linus Torvalds towards RMS	Jan 23 04:26
balzac	only more overtly hostile	Jan 23 04:26
balzac	Kucinich, the only guy to really stand up for impeachment, and Kos treated him with no respect at all.	Jan 23 04:26
balzac	Kos was most definitely not "Crashing the Gates", he was reinforcing the gates.	Jan 23 04:27
schestowitz	Jail gate?	Jan 23 04:27
schestowitz	As in bars?	Jan 23 04:27
balzac	Crashing the Gates is the title of his book about online political organizing.	Jan 23 04:28
balzac	as if he's not part of the media establishment	Jan 23 04:28
balzac	He got a freaking deal to write for newsweek	Jan 23 04:28
balzac	and all these members of congress not only show up to his website, but they show up in person to his political conferences.	Jan 23 04:29
balzac	used to be called Yearly Kos, now it's called "Netroots Nation".	Jan 23 04:29
balzac	Anyway, you know what it's like to have Microsoft's and Novell's people go after you like tanya harding, whacking at your knee-caps	Jan 23 04:30
balzac	I know what that's like too	Jan 23 04:30
schestowitz	Oh	Jan 23 04:30
schestowitz	Lessig keynoted it	Jan 23 04:30
balzac	All I did was stick to my guns on impeaching Bush for being a war criminal and I was slandered and verbally abused to an incredible extent on DailyKos.com	Jan 23 04:30
schestowitz	Tanya Harding?	Jan 23 04:31
balzac	She's the skater who had a big henchman whack Nancy Kerrigan in the knee with a metal bar during the olympics	Jan 23 04:31
balzac	classic	Jan 23 04:31
balzac	so I'm saying when you've got character-assassins who try to hobble you for standing up for something, that's my analogy	Jan 23 04:32
schestowitz	I was never abused physically	Jan 23 04:32
balzac	metaphor	Jan 23 04:32
schestowitz	Just verbally, using lots of libel	Jan 23 04:32
balzac	Me too	Jan 23 04:32
schestowitz	Most people are not stupid enough to believe it	Jan 23 04:33
schestowitz	But you never know about those who might cling on to lie	Jan 23 04:33
schestowitz	I've seen some of this	Jan 23 04:33
schestowitz	Like people spreading rumours about me being a senile or something.	Jan 23 04:33
balzac	Lots of people are not nearly paranoid enough to discriminate between you and your critics.	Jan 23 04:33
schestowitz	Or was it autistic.LOL	Jan 23 04:33
balzac	Until you've gone and pitted yourself against a really big, well-monied, corrupt, bureaucracy or corporation, you're going to be quite naive about the level of coordinated smear-attacks you'll suffer.	Jan 23 04:35
balzac	Most people have not had that "rite of passage" as an activist, so they'll really think you're just a paranoid guy with bad social skills.	Jan 23 04:36
schestowitz	RMS has the same issue	Jan 23 04:38
balzac	Yeah, Kucinich too	Jan 23 04:38
schestowitz	Linus... not so much... he's conformist	Jan 23 04:38
balzac	Well, he's not any kind of activist. He's politically inert, like Markos.	Jan 23 04:38
schestowitz	Obedience keeps his relatively safe from mad stalkers	Jan 23 04:38
balzac	He's just sitting there, stifling progress, collecting money, criticizing the real guy, basking in the lime-light, while riding the real guy's coat tails.	Jan 23 04:39
balzac	Kos and Torvalds	Jan 23 04:39
balzac	I reserve judgment on Dries Buyteart because he's younger, and he said "free software" in the forward of some book about Drupal, not "open source".	Jan 23 04:40
balzac	But I really got tired of Torvalds constantly ripping on RMS because it's exactly the same as Markos Moulitsas always disrespecting Kucinich.	Jan 23 04:41
balzac	It's not all black and white	Jan 23 04:41
balzac	I'm not a judgemental person, but I know when there's reason to resist some bullshit artist, not just out of principles but also out of personal financial interest.	Jan 23 04:42
balzac	I'll be damned if I'm not going to get my slice of the pie.	Jan 23 04:42
schestowitz	Dries is OK	Jan 23 04:43
schestowitz	Don't bring him into this group (LinusKos) :-)	Jan 23 04:44
balzac	I think so too. He's a nice guy, and all that.	Jan 23 04:44
balzac	I'm not, I wrote congratulations on his blog for his 8 years of Drupal.	Jan 23 04:44
schestowitz	"Do as I say but not too much"	Jan 23 04:44
schestowitz	Linus about RMS	Jan 23 04:44
schestowitz	Or Kos and those who want real justice re: Bush	Jan 23 04:44
balzac	But Torvalds and Kos aren't exactly terrible people either, they're just not in any position to be disrespecting the elder statesmen activists.	Jan 23 04:45
schestowitz	Yes	Jan 23 04:45
balzac	Plus, by defending the real visionary, I'm taking position myself, with personal interest.	Jan 23 04:45
balzac	It's crucial, I think, in order to be taken seriously, not to be too much of a renunciate. I want to be financially successful. I think it also strengthens my credibility.	Jan 23 04:46
balzac	so I'm a vocal critic of "open source" and an advocate of Free Software and GNU, not just ideologically, but as an entrepreneur.	Jan 23 04:47
balzac	But I'm pragmatic enough to push sales of a mixed-source product like RedHat because it's a hell of a lot better than Novell.	Jan 23 04:48
schestowitz	Open Source is /whose/? ESR? Perens? ORLY?	Jan 23 04:48
balzac	They're all guys who don't think as clearly as RMS.	Jan 23 04:48
schestowitz	They swap names, then garner control	Jan 23 04:48
schestowitz	EEE	Jan 23 04:48
schestowitz	But not from Microsoft	Jan 23 04:49
balzac	Well, Perens backed off of Open Source. He's cooler than ESR.	Jan 23 04:49
balzac	O'Rielly is half-serious, considering the way most of his books are licensed.	Jan 23 04:49
balzac	publishing ESR's screed, CATB, as if it were worth a crap - that shows how aware O'Reilly is of free software principles and history.	Jan 23 04:50
balzac	I like O'Reilly though because he appreciates this really cool Sufi singer whom I also am a fan.	Jan 23 04:50
balzac	Anyway, they're all just guys and I'm not on some high-horse of judgment, but I see opportunity in being a bit more thoughtful and respectful of the real innovators.	Jan 23 04:51
balzac	RMS is greatly undervalued by the "open source" community, especially considering that 60% of the so-called "open source" software is GPL-licensed.	Jan 23 04:52
schestowitz	or those who sacrificed.	Jan 23 04:52
balzac	yeah	Jan 23 04:52
balzac	It's ridiculous that the FSF goes along on a shoe-string budget while Google owns an air-strip and is practically building a navy. jk	Jan 23 04:53
schestowitz	You mention Linus a lot of not Microsofticaza	Jan 23 04:53
balzac	Google's floating data-centers, Mark Shuttleworth's space-tourism, RMS flying coach.	Jan 23 04:54
balzac	Icaza is a peckerwood	Jan 23 04:54
balzac	he's very sneaky	Jan 23 04:55
balzac	You can lump him together with Torvalds and Markos Moulitsas.	Jan 23 04:55
schestowitz	Blech	Jan 23 04:56
balzac	Well, there are people of all kinds, varying degrees of mental coherence. Some people just have more cognitive dissonance and they don't see the irony of their ridiculous ideas.	Jan 23 04:56
schestowitz	Shuttleworth	Jan 23 04:56
schestowitz	Wow! The hero	Jan 23 04:56
schestowitz	He.. he... he flew to space	Jan 23 04:56
schestowitz	What heroism	Jan 23 04:56
balzac	Shuttleworth - golden boy, like the Mavs owner.	Jan 23 04:56
balzac	What's his name, who owns the Mavericks?	Jan 23 04:57
schestowitz	He's like a man given by God from another planet :-)	Jan 23 04:57
balzac	Mark Cuban	Jan 23 04:57
balzac	yeah, well it's not hard to get a big ego when you've become disproportionately successful and you're surrounded by sycophants	Jan 23 04:57
balzac	It's a phenomenon of group-psychology. I've made diagrams of egoists and sycophants to capture my theories on social psychology and narcissism.	Jan 23 04:58
balzac	I wouldn't mind becoming one of them, but at least I'll be really self-conscious of the psychology behind it. It distorts your point of view if you're not well aware of what's happening.	Jan 23 05:00
schestowitz	Diagrams like that remind me of Unabomber	Jan 23 05:00
balzac	I would be. I'm not going to presume my success as an entrepreneur. I can barely convince people to pay me more than $20/hr.	Jan 23 05:01
balzac	how so?	Jan 23 05:01
schestowitz	Diagram here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Industrial_...	Jan 23 05:05
schestowitz	The guy creeps me out though	Jan 23 05:05
schestowitz	It's quite interesting though. "It is merely a matter of attitude whether you blame the advertising industry for manipulating the public or blame the public for allowing itself to be manipulated. As a matter of strategy one should generally avoid blaming the public."	Jan 23 05:07
balzac	There's a lot to read there about the psychology of social activists vs establishment & status-quo defenders	Jan 23 05:07
balzac	He's right about that.	Jan 23 05:08
balzac	Every time I hear someone say, regarding environmental catastrophe or war crimes - "it's everyone's fault. We're all responsible for this" - I say no! It's that guy's fault, and that guy!	Jan 23 05:09
balzac	because what's the use of not singling out the worst culprits?	Jan 23 05:09
balzac	don't blame the public, blame the opinion-leaders, the elected and appointed officials, the wealthy, the influential.	Jan 23 05:10
balzac	There's nothing to be gained from blaming the powerless public.	Jan 23 05:10
balzac	except to alienate yourself.	Jan 23 05:10
schestowitz	Soldiers who obery orders	Jan 23 05:11
schestowitz	I said it before... people are just a generation and a half away from nokeys	Jan 23 05:11
schestowitz	We're gullible and it's dangerous	Jan 23 05:11
balzac	I say let most of those soldiers off the hook. Nail bush and cheney.	Jan 23 05:11
schestowitz	Anyway, it's 5AM here.	Jan 23 05:11
schestowitz	I'm off to bed before ti's light	Jan 23 05:11
balzac	right	Jan 23 05:11
balzac	Thanks for chatting	Jan 23 05:12
balzac	I hope we can talk business some time, or software, but I think we've covered politics pretty thoroughly.	Jan 23 05:12
balzac	If you're ever in NYC, you're invited to join my friends and I at some strip clubs.	Jan 23 05:13
balzac	ttyl Roy	Jan 23 05:14
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MinceR	j0	Jan 23 09:17
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schestowitz	Morning.	Jan 23 10:53
schestowitz	Windows kills.	Jan 23 11:40
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... " The virus takes advantage of a known problem that is resolved through a Windows patch that wasn't installed because "the decision to disable automatic security updates was taken during Christmas week after PCs in an operating theatre were rebooted mid-surgery.""	Jan 23 11:40
MinceR	:)	Jan 23 11:43
MinceR	i disabled it when i was trying out coreavc and it took the movie out of fullscreen every 5 minutes because "DURR HURR REBOOT NOW"	Jan 23 11:43
MinceR	i've managed to install coreavc-for-linux since	Jan 23 11:43
schestowitz	You can't disable it in Vista.	Jan 23 11:46
schestowitz	Windows knows better than you.. and forces you to accept its judgment.	Jan 23 11:46
MinceR	:)	Jan 23 11:47
schestowitz	"Change" my arse! http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10148807-38.html?p...	Jan 23 11:55
schestowitz	Nice... http://www.crunchbase.com/assets/images/...	Jan 23 11:57
schestowitz	Linux-based Jolicloud operating system for netbooks	Jan 23 11:57
schestowitz	http://p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/... (Counter Terrorism Act 2008 - "attempting to elicit information" and secret DNA sampling and data sharing etc. come into force on February 16th 2009)	Jan 23 11:58
MinceR	cute... too bad it's infected with malware such as skype	Jan 23 11:59
schestowitz	I saw that too.	Jan 23 12:00
MinceR	anyway, if it kills windows, it's good	Jan 23 12:01
schestowitz	LOL "Two-thirds use an "SQL database" but only 10% use a relational DBMS? Paul Krill, how about a refresher in computer science 101?" < http://www.infoworld.com/article/09/01/20/ope... >	Jan 23 12:04
MinceR	if only	Jan 23 12:05
MinceR	sql is a horror	Jan 23 12:05
schestowitz	I should do a post on Apple's attack on Linux	Jan 23 12:05
benJIman	SQL is not relational.	Jan 23 12:05
schestowitz	So all those hypocrites from LCA and such will open their eyes	Jan 23 12:05
schestowitz	People in Linux conferences using Macs	Jan 23 12:07
schestowitz	Sutor also...... http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200...	Jan 23 12:07
benJIman	I'd be surprised if even 10% of people used relational databases.	Jan 23 12:08
MinceR	benJIman: huh?	Jan 23 12:09
benJIman	MinceR: It is incompatible with relational theory for several reasons. Including the existance of "null", the fact that attribute-order is significant, the fact that duplicate rows are allowed, missing relational operators and other problems.	Jan 23 12:12
MinceR	yet it's based on relational theory	Jan 23 12:14
MinceR	and such DB-s are commonly called RDBMS-es	Jan 23 12:14
MinceR	do you know any "really relational" DB-s?	Jan 23 12:15
benJIman	MinceR: It's based on relational theory but things have been added and removed such that it is no longer compatible.	Jan 23 12:26
MinceR	by your definition, nobody uses relational databases :>	Jan 23 12:26
benJIman	There are some toy dbmses that are relational. Mightyd and Re. lIngres is working on a real relational database too.	Jan 23 12:26
MinceR	what advantages do they expect from a stricter model?	Jan 23 12:27
benJIman	You can use a relational subset of SQL, but there are still some problems with it that are impossible to workaround.	Jan 23 12:27
benJIman	MinceR: A lot of the query optimisations are not possible due to the ways sql breaks the relational model. Of course the biggest issue is data integrity and redundancy.	Jan 23 12:28
MinceR	ic	Jan 23 12:28
benJIman	I suggest reading some books/papers by Chris Date/Hugh Darwen if you want to know more.	Jan 23 12:28
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oiaohm2	I see apple got on radar. People forget the apple netwon that existed before palm.	Jan 23 12:58
schestowitz	Yes	Jan 23 13:00
schestowitz	But what's with use of patents to eliminate products?	Jan 23 13:00
oiaohm2	Apple normally does not eliminate products.	Jan 23 13:05
schestowitz	I can't think of examples	Jan 23 13:05
schestowitz	But often enough, companies 'hire' a troll to remove competing products	Jan 23 13:06
oiaohm2	Freetype case. With open source. As long as opensource developers provided an option not to use patented code Apple would not attack project.	Jan 23 13:06
oiaohm2	Apple kinda just wants to be payed for there patent list.	Jan 23 13:06
oiaohm2	Most likely cause of Apple threating Palm was Palm thinking since it was not making an OS any more it did not have to pay patents.	Jan 23 13:07
oiaohm2	Apple is not in that great of a money location to not be paid for there patents.	Jan 23 13:08
schestowitz	That's flawed logic	Jan 23 13:09
schestowitz	This isn't copycatting.	Jan 23 13:09
schestowitz	They're wasting everybody's time and money. Ask TomTom's CEO..	Jan 23 13:09
oiaohm2	Not really.	Jan 23 13:11
oiaohm2	Its not like TomTom has had a licence with Apple like patent usage like Palm.	Jan 23 13:12
oiaohm2	Apple to Palm is just a open warning.	Jan 23 13:12
MinceR	people forget that (1) newton didn't have phone functionality and (2) crApple licensed handwriting recognition for it from palm	Jan 23 13:14
MinceR	apple to palm is bullying	Jan 23 13:14
MinceR	and claiming innovation where they've done none	Jan 23 13:15
oiaohm2	Apple has always had the policy of protecting there patents. Remember neither did palm have phone support at the time of newton either.	Jan 23 13:15
MinceR	oh, it's "protecting patents" now?	Jan 23 13:15
MinceR	remember that handspring introduced the pda/phone and handspring is palm now.	Jan 23 13:16
oiaohm2	There are interface design things that are apples MinceR	Jan 23 13:16
oiaohm2	Apple just said don't infringe on them.	Jan 23 13:16
MinceR	apple keeps claiming gui innovation for stuff they've stolen from xerox and elsewhere	Jan 23 13:17
MinceR	apple was caught trying to patent something someone else invented already.	Jan 23 13:17
oiaohm2	So has everyone else who has patents at some time.	Jan 23 13:17
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MinceR	http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl...	Jan 23 13:18
MinceR	the great innovators	Jan 23 13:18
oiaohm2	Yes the true problem with patents sometimes you think your idea is unique and opps it was not.	Jan 23 13:18
MinceR	assuming they really didn't know	Jan 23 13:19
MinceR	which implies that apple didn't lie	Jan 23 13:19
MinceR	but apple keeps lying all the time	Jan 23 13:19
schestowitz	oiaohm2: Apple to Palm is extorton	Jan 23 13:20
schestowitz	*ion	Jan 23 13:20
schestowitz	Same as attack in ways, just verbal.	Jan 23 13:20
MinceR	the patent system is obviously broken	Jan 23 13:21
MinceR	and is obviously going counter to its original invention	Jan 23 13:21
oiaohm2	Patent law is annoying stuff. If you say that you will not defend you patents your patents are basically useless. Even IBM states clearly that Open Souce may use there patents as long as there is nothing in the licence forbining IBM from using it. Anyone else same kind of words apple used.	Jan 23 13:22
MinceR	welcome to modern capitalism, where all the rules are subverted so instead of promoting competition, they promote monopolies.	Jan 23 13:22
oiaohm2	Patent Law forces the threat setup.	Jan 23 13:22
MinceR	"clearly stating" is not a patent license and not legally binding.	Jan 23 13:23
oiaohm2	Funny enough is it can be legally binding in some courts if you state wrong.	Jan 23 13:24
oiaohm2	Sorry the threat words apple used are basicaly boiler plate for notifying someone that there are patents in a area they have to be aware of.	Jan 23 13:25
MinceR	"there are patents" sounds like FUD.	Jan 23 13:26
MinceR	just like a certain other company keeps doing nowadays	Jan 23 13:26
oiaohm2	Note Apple has a lot of patents for rendering fonts and the like to screen.	Jan 23 13:26
MinceR	we'll just have to do without fonts on the screen, then	Jan 23 13:27
MinceR	obviously it's a great invention	Jan 23 13:27
MinceR	oh, wait, it isn't	Jan 23 13:27
oiaohm2	It taking the rough edges of fonts and making them look good.	Jan 23 13:27
oiaohm2	There are are a lot of other small avoidable patents like that.	Jan 23 13:27
MinceR	antialiasing? what a novel idea!	Jan 23 13:28
oiaohm2	Antialiasing with extra data in font to undo errors.	Jan 23 13:29
MinceR	you mean hinting?	Jan 23 13:29
oiaohm2	Yep.	Jan 23 13:29
oiaohm2	Apple will most likely also hold some hardware patents.	Jan 23 13:30
MinceR	most likely about things they didn't invent	Jan 23 13:30
MinceR	as usual	Jan 23 13:30
oiaohm2	Hinting they did invent.	Jan 23 13:30
oiaohm2	It was first done in there video cards by hardware.	Jan 23 13:30
MinceR	doesn't the Bilski decision render that patent unenforceable anyway?	Jan 23 13:30
oiaohm2	Nop hardware patent these days emulated in software.	Jan 23 13:31
oiaohm2	So Bilski does not apply.	Jan 23 13:31
oiaohm2	That is what you have to be very careful with Apple over. They have a lot of small kinda not important looking hardware patents.	Jan 23 13:32
MinceR	so all one needs to do to make a sw patent apply is also implement it in hardware?	Jan 23 13:32
MinceR	yeah, they're just like microsoft, trying to keep you from competing because they can't come up with quality products.	Jan 23 13:32
oiaohm2	Implement it in hardware first. Patent that then convert to software.	Jan 23 13:32
oiaohm2	It applies in a lot of countries that don't have software patents that way.	Jan 23 13:33
MinceR	converting an algorithm to hardware is probably trivial.	Jan 23 13:33
oiaohm2	Depends on the algorithm. It be real hardware you cannot use a cpu or microprocess of any form to process it.	Jan 23 13:34
oiaohm2	Because if you use a cpu or microprocess it don't get the global reach.	Jan 23 13:34
MinceR	i could use a microcontroller	Jan 23 13:36
oiaohm2	If you use a microcontroller is a software patent.	Jan 23 13:36
MinceR	or i could generate a circuit	Jan 23 13:36
oiaohm2	Yes it has to be a solid logic circuit.	Jan 23 13:37
MinceR	it would be wasteful but nobody cares	Jan 23 13:37
oiaohm2	Also due to the complexity of doing solid logic circuits for complex things reason why they appear to be minor things.	Jan 23 13:38
MinceR	i don't have to do the entire thing in hw and it will already be bound to a specific hw, won't it?	Jan 23 13:38
oiaohm2	Basically the patents Apple are sitting on are far stronger than lot of the software patents MS sits on. But area of coverage of apples is limited.	Jan 23 13:39
oiaohm2	Most of apples hardware patents can be designed around.	Jan 23 13:39
oiaohm2	Like freetype generating hinting on the fly.	Jan 23 13:40
oiaohm2	Instead of using hinting data embed in the font file covered by apples patent.	Jan 23 13:40
oiaohm2	Hardware patents are no where as global reaching as software patents either.	Jan 23 13:40
MinceR	sw patents disguised as hw patents, on the other hand...	Jan 23 13:41
oiaohm2	sw patents can have down right poor descriptions of opertations at times making them almost impossable to take another path.	Jan 23 13:41
oiaohm2	hw patents must have clean defined description of what it does. So making finding another path simpler.	Jan 23 13:42
oiaohm2	ie hw patents are annoying don't step on them but not end of development like sw patents. Apple basically saying to palm just don't step on them design your own ways around problems.	Jan 23 13:44
oiaohm2	Where someone with software patents would be saying you cannot design nothing that avoids my patents at times.	Jan 23 13:44
oiaohm2	Software patents are pure bad. Hardware patents are more annoying than company destroying.	Jan 23 13:45
schestowitz	Why is it ok for h/w in this case?	Jan 23 13:47
schestowitz	it just implments maths	Jan 23 13:47
MinceR	schestowitz: obviously, because it's from Holy Apple.	Jan 23 13:48
oiaohm2	Apple is not anglic. Yes maths in circuit becomes hw patent. Hw patents also cover silcon chip designs for like of doing cos and sin. There are a few thousand different patents to do them.	Jan 23 13:50
oiaohm2	Hw patents are very much you cannot do it the same way. But of you do it a different way get the same final result everything is legal.	Jan 23 13:51
MinceR	that's how sw patents should work if at all.	Jan 23 13:51
oiaohm2	I don't really have a Issue with Hw patents.	Jan 23 13:52
oiaohm2	Sw patent rules are so crap its not funny.	Jan 23 13:52
oiaohm2	Its also the reason why when it comes to a court case over a Hw patent if you are infinging is normally worked out in one trial without question.	Jan 23 13:53
oiaohm2	Most hw patent breaches are settled out of court. For the simple reason both parties can confirm the other is or is not in breach.	Jan 23 13:54
oiaohm2	The number of software patent cases really show a major problems in the rules. You are lucky to see 1 hw patent case go to court every 5 years.	Jan 23 13:56
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schestowitz	MinceR: Holy Apple?	Jan 23 14:05
schestowitz	Holy cow.	Jan 23 14:05
MinceR	:)	Jan 23 14:05
MinceR	you know, the guys who can get away with everything	Jan 23 14:06
oiaohm2	When you know the rules of hardware patents you really have to ask why software patents are need at all.	Jan 23 14:06
*kapipi (n=tor@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovell		Jan 23 14:06
schestowitz	oiaohm2: keep an eye on BN	Jan 23 14:06
schestowitz	I have a long post coming with studies and new arguments on why patents are the s*	Jan 23 14:06
MinceR	oiaohm2: they're needed because some sw companies are unable to compete and they know it	Jan 23 14:06
MinceR	so they're using sw patents to deny entry to the market.	Jan 23 14:06
schestowitz	To give historical reference, these are just ways or handing in power to the rich	Jan 23 14:06
MinceR	well, trying to, anyway.	Jan 23 14:06
schestowitz	It's marketed differently	Jan 23 14:06
schestowitz	Many things are marketed as "secuerity"	Jan 23 14:07
schestowitz	Even knowingly as means of deceit	Jan 23 14:07
MinceR	yeah, like DRM	Jan 23 14:07
schestowitz	Like "protecting" patents	Jan 23 14:07
schestowitz	Yes, DRM too	Jan 23 14:07
MinceR	which apple and m$ still seem to be in love with	Jan 23 14:07
schestowitz	It's the same in politics	Jan 23 14:07
oiaohm2	DRM does have its places.	Jan 23 14:07
schestowitz	To break off labour unions and such	Jan 23 14:07
schestowitz	Always secueity	Jan 23 14:07
MinceR	yeah, in the history books	Jan 23 14:07
MinceR	under "bullets we have dodged"	Jan 23 14:07
twitter	I'm glad Apple is chest thumping patents.	Jan 23 14:07
schestowitz	Terrify people about the evil "pirates"	Jan 23 14:07
schestowitz	Then you can do anything about them.	Jan 23 14:07
twitter	When they lose, SW patents are over.	Jan 23 14:08
oiaohm2	Problem with DRM its being placed were it does not realy suit.	Jan 23 14:08
MinceR	like, in practice.	Jan 23 14:08
oiaohm2	SW patents are a threat to Apple as well.	Jan 23 14:08
twitter	There's no good place for digital restrictions.	Jan 23 14:08
schestowitz	Pirates of Silicon Valley, remember	Jan 23 14:08
MinceR	"good artists copy, great artists steal"	Jan 23 14:08
MinceR	remember?	Jan 23 14:08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 23rd, 2009 - Part 1

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