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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 2nd, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 7:56 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitz The Funkenbusch troll/shill has a new mail header: “X-Fuck-Off-Roy:   Always” Feb 02 00:03
schestowitz So they invade pro-Linux forums, then tell the regulars to “fuck off”.. in  the headers.. that’s like a black man entering the KKK annual meeting and telling them all to vacate the building. Feb 02 00:03
twitter bad analogy.  It’s like rude people being rude. Feb 02 00:55
twitter they have invaded the forums for that exact purpose. Feb 02 00:56
twitter they seek to disrupt and make all shared media unpleasant Feb 02 00:57
twitter All it really shows is how rude the non free software people really are. Feb 02 00:57
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jose schestowitz, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090… Feb 02 02:48
jose ” ‘Poverty is pushing our people into doing desperate things just to get through one more day’ “ Feb 02 02:48
jose >> “Everybody was screaming and most of them were running with fire on their bodies, they were just running into the bush,” said Charles Kamau, 22, who was driving through Molo on Saturday night when he saw the road blocked by hundreds of people with gerry cans, plastic bottles and buckets — anything to siphon some free fuel. Feb 02 02:49
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The_Mad_Hatter news about Patent Troll Tracker Feb 02 03:37
The_Mad_Hatter http://thepriorart.typepad.com/the_prior_a… Feb 02 03:37
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zer0c00l my new post opposing proprietary in education Feb 02 05:45
zer0c00l http://annauniv-tamilnadu.blogspot.com/20… Feb 02 05:45
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Ziggyfish time to go home Feb 02 06:46
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schestowitz Sign Feb 02 07:14
schestowitz Still no DB Feb 02 07:14
schestowitz We urgently need the host to restore boycottn_wrdp1. Feb 02 07:15
schestowitz I’m currently running off backup at boycottn_wrdp3. Feb 02 07:15
schestowitz For some reason I think they disabled boycottn_wrdp1. Feb 02 07:15
schestowitz Ahhh…….. Feb 02 07:19
schestowitz “This MySQL server has been running for 0 days, 19 hours, 59 minutes and 27 seconds. It started up on Feb 01, 2009 at 06:23 AM.” Feb 02 07:19
schestowitz That seems to suggest the server was started at the same time that the main DB was made not available. Feb 02 07:19
schestowitz 11:20 is when we lost it (6:20 server’s time) Feb 02 07:19
schestowitz Query statistics: Since its startup, 5,719,017 queries have been sent to the server. Feb 02 07:21
schestowitz 286.08 k queries per hour Feb 02 07:21
schestowitz 79.47 queries per second Feb 02 07:21
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zer0c00l schestowitz : i have update my blog which opposes proprietary in education i want your comments and suggestions …here is the link http://annauniv-tamilnadu.blogspot.com/ when you get time please go through it Feb 02 07:53
schestowitz I have. Feb 02 07:54
schestowitz I saw the item you wrote about earlier Feb 02 07:54
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PeterKraus lol Feb 02 08:47
PeterKraus http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/sla… Feb 02 08:47
PeterKraus they couldn’t find enough Americans capable of handling sales, lending, and bank administration Feb 02 08:47
PeterKraus :D:D Feb 02 08:47
schestowitz HAha Feb 02 08:47
schestowitz Priceless Feb 02 08:47
schestowitz Pun intended Feb 02 08:47
schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008… Feb 02 08:48
PeterKraus the signature log is longer than the whole letter Feb 02 08:51
PeterKraus :D Feb 02 08:51
schestowitz Maybe intended Feb 02 08:55
schestowitz It’s annoying me what the host is doung Feb 02 08:56
schestowitz I’m working on new posts Feb 02 08:56
schestowitz But I’m waiting for the host to bring back up the main DB Feb 02 08:56
schestowitz The issue is, the DB is still hammers, even on a Sunday night Feb 02 08:56
schestowitz Well, it could be worse had we lost data Feb 02 08:57
schestowitz “Server Load  6.46 (4 cpus)” Feb 02 08:58
schestowitz Query statistics: Since its startup, 6,304,216 queries have been sent to the server. Feb 02 08:59
schestowitz 80 queries/second Feb 02 08:59
PeterKraus a lot Feb 02 08:59
schestowitz It’s mostly cause of the Intel posts Feb 02 09:00
schestowitz I guess I’ll just let it sit there and serve Feb 02 09:00
schestowitz I’ll be ‘back to normal’ later. All comments are closed, so that no DB diffs will develop Feb 02 09:00
schestowitz But I have really good posts that I want to make urgently Feb 02 09:00
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oiaohm2 I see you are slowly getting to the bottom of it schestowitz Feb 02 09:05
schestowitz The site is bonkers right now, so I can’t make new posts until it ‘calms down’ Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz I need your advice Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz Let me paste something Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz <schestowitz> I reckon the host (and I’m guessing here) took the old DB down deliberately Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz <schestowitz> No mysql error I think Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz <schestowitz> It occurred to while at the gym… Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz <schestowitz> I mean, the night before they took the whole thing offline Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz <schestowitz> I’ve been thnking… maybe the host manually disabled the DB because of all the traffic Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz <schestowitz> In which case it would explain what I was seeing Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz <schestowitz> But would they shoot first, tell us later? Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz <schestowitz> I don’t know.. Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz <schestowitz> Let me check it again. Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz <schestowitz> DB still not there.. :-S Feb 02 09:06
schestowitz oiaohm2: the third DB I could manage to upload eventually from Opera on Fedora Feb 02 09:07
schestowitz So I have the archives up Feb 02 09:07
schestowitz Question is: given the load, did the host disable the DB? Feb 02 09:07
zer0c00l schestowitz : i saw lot of emails between Microsoft employees in boycottnovell how did u managed to get it? In my school ,i am asking a Microsoft student partner to forward the mails M$ has sent to them..but she is keep on refusing …….. Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz schestowitz> “Server Load   6.46 (4 cpus)” Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> Query statistics: Since its startup, 6,304,216 queries have been sent to the server. Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> 80 queries/second Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz We urgently need the host to restore boycottn_wrdp1. Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> I’m currently running off backup at boycottn_wrdp3. Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> For some reason I think they disabled boycottn_wrdp1. Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> Ahhh…….. Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> “This MySQL server has been running for 0 days, 19 hours, 59 minutes and 27 seconds. It started up on Feb 01, 2009 at 06:23 AM.” Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> That seems to suggest the server was started at the same time that the main DB was made not available. Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> 11:20 is when we lost it (6:20 server’s time) Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> Query statistics: Since its startup, 5,719,017 queries have been sent to the server. Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> 286.08 k queries per hour Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz <schestowitz> 79.47 queries per second Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz zer0c00l: it was presented as antitrust evidence. Feb 02 09:08
schestowitz zer0c00l: well, it was going to. Microsoft paid a lot of money for it to go away Feb 02 09:09
zer0c00l oh Feb 02 09:09
schestowitz Ask the school about EDGI or escalate to higher level where they sign MOUs Feb 02 09:09
oiaohm2 schestowitz: its possable but is possable mysql broke too. Feb 02 09:09
schestowitz MOU=Memorandum of Understanding (Microsoft calls it Project Marshall) internally. its goal being to lock out competition… Feb 02 09:09
schestowitz oiaohm2: they rebooted just at the same time Feb 02 09:10
oiaohm2 Server could have rebooted at the wrong time too halfway threw a mysql write. Feb 02 09:10
schestowitz The mysql server (not just this DB) has been “running” only since I lost the access to the DB Feb 02 09:10
oiaohm2 So breaking the database. Feb 02 09:10
schestowitz Ahh… Feb 02 09:10
schestowitz oiaohm2: can this be recovered? Feb 02 09:11
schestowitz By admins? Feb 02 09:11
oiaohm2 Most cases yes last write will be lost of course. Feb 02 09:11
schestowitz Or should I go on with the clean copy from backup? Feb 02 09:11
schestowitz oiaohm2: being a Sunday, no word from the host Feb 02 09:11
oiaohm2 Normally my play from here is prepare the clean copy. Feb 02 09:12
schestowitz Prepare in what sense? Feb 02 09:12
oiaohm2 Its monday here. Feb 02 09:12
schestowitz oiaohm2: it’s in the US (the host) Feb 02 09:12
schestowitz So 4AM at the latest Feb 02 09:12
oiaohm2 Have it incase the damage is worse from the reboot than expected. Feb 02 09:13
schestowitz Good, thanks. Well, I have the backup running there now Feb 02 09:13
schestowitz We still get heavy loads there. Feb 02 09:13
oiaohm2 Having something big enough to take a slashdotting is hard. Feb 02 09:14
schestowitz No Slashdotting this time. Feb 02 09:14
oiaohm2 Is there a squid proxy running on there ? Feb 02 09:14
schestowitz No, but there might be soon Feb 02 09:14
schestowitz lars suggested that I install it. Feb 02 09:14
oiaohm2 I would suggest it as well. Feb 02 09:15
oiaohm2 Takes a lot of load off. Feb 02 09:15
oiaohm2 Next is mysql proxy of some form caching requests. Feb 02 09:15
schestowitz He’s checking if  http://www.apsis.ch/pound/ is not better Feb 02 09:15
schestowitz I think there’s already mysql caching Feb 02 09:16
schestowitz “phpMyAdmin: Query cache” Feb 02 09:16
schestowitz Qcache_hits  4,958 k   The number of cache hits. Feb 02 09:17
zer0c00l schestowitz: its higher than edgi. with the help of so called “Microsoft student partners” they are trying to dump M$ products inside schools and colleges…These student partners give all students in the college access to Microsoft products free of cosr Feb 02 09:17
zer0c00l *cost visit https://msdn70.e-academy.com/ Feb 02 09:17
zer0c00l they call it as e-academy Feb 02 09:17
schestowitz Is there any tool in phpMyAdmi for checking/reparing DBs? Feb 02 09:18
schestowitz *piring Feb 02 09:18
schestowitz *repairing I mean Feb 02 09:18
zer0c00l you can download virtually all crap microsoft products there Feb 02 09:18
schestowitz zer0c00l: yes, that’s EDGI/DreamSpark Feb 02 09:18
oiaohm2 No one has coded a frount end that does that job yet schestowitz Feb 02 09:19
schestowitz It should be ruled illegal or something, no? They turn schools into a client pool. Feb 02 09:19
zer0c00l yeah Feb 02 09:19
schestowitz oiaohm2: I guess I need to wait for the host then. Feb 02 09:19
oiaohm2 With all the usage of mysql and other databases is shockly missing schestowitz Feb 02 09:19
zer0c00l its illegal Feb 02 09:19
zer0c00l i am going to fight with school officials Feb 02 09:19
schestowitz zer0c00l: please do Feb 02 09:19
zer0c00l but most of them are dump Feb 02 09:19
zer0c00l yeah Feb 02 09:19
schestowitz Explain to them the ethics of what they do Feb 02 09:19
schestowitz They sell the kids to Microsoft Feb 02 09:20
zer0c00l yeah Feb 02 09:20
schestowitz They don’t care. Maybe they make personal gains Feb 02 09:20
schestowitz Like dinners with Microsoft execs Feb 02 09:20
zer0c00l please give me some inputs so that i can effectively fight Feb 02 09:20
schestowitz Find out who is responsible Feb 02 09:21
schestowitz get names, pressure them Feb 02 09:21
schestowitz Don’t get logos and intitution names Feb 02 09:21
zer0c00l sure Feb 02 09:21
schestowitz These are the ‘shaddows’ Feb 02 09:21
zer0c00l ok Feb 02 09:21
schestowitz *shadows… like the corporations casting a shadow in government  for people to blame Feb 02 09:21
zer0c00l they have paid M$ some money to get into this program Feb 02 09:22
schestowitz Maybe. Maybe it’s the opposite Feb 02 09:22
schestowitz Microsoft will be willing to pay (bribe) them to make the students future slaves of Microsoft ecosystem Feb 02 09:22
schestowitz That’s like selling tobacco to kids in high education because the tobacco companies give it away for free Feb 02 09:23
schestowitz So they set up vending machines for cigarettes where you swipe in your student card and off you go smoking Feb 02 09:23
oiaohm2 The thing is schestowitz even if you could fullly recovery the database without dealing with the load issue we could end back up in the same mess if writes are reenabled. Feb 02 09:23
schestowitz When you are no longer a student (graduation) you’re stuck with it… addicted Feb 02 09:23
schestowitz That’s when the tobacco companies start cashing in Feb 02 09:23
zer0c00l yeah Feb 02 09:23
schestowitz If the college refuses to see how /harmful/ it is what they do, they’ll carry on doing this Feb 02 09:24
zer0c00l they refuse to understand that M$ is an evil Feb 02 09:24
oiaohm2 Sites up limited by my book that is a pass for a few days.(Ok might not be yours schestowitz).  Now is working threw the issue. Feb 02 09:24
schestowitz oiaohm2: agreed. Another thing I want to see is trobleshooting/diagnosis. Feb 02 09:24
schestowitz Just side-stepping the issue means it can recur Feb 02 09:24
zer0c00l you people having problems with server overload? Feb 02 09:25
schestowitz zer0c00l: not just Microsoft. Adobe does similar stuff Feb 02 09:25
schestowitz They need to teach methods and offer (free) libre s/w, not $Vendor_X Feb 02 09:25
schestowitz zer0c00l: sort of. Feb 02 09:25
schestowitz zer0c00l: DB issue Feb 02 09:25
schestowitz oiaohm2: same thing happened to Groklaw, I think Feb 02 09:26
schestowitz When SCO filed Chapter 11 Feb 02 09:26
schestowitz The DB went bonkers Feb 02 09:26
schestowitz I bet Mathfox restored from backup or something Feb 02 09:26
schestowitz oiaohm2: ø per second: 81.82 (so it still goes up on Monday, not down) Feb 02 09:27
schestowitz “Note: Enabling the database statistics here might cause heavy traffic between the web server and the MySQL server.” Feb 02 09:28
schestowitz I don’t have that enab;ed Feb 02 09:28
oiaohm2 Yep that will kill you. Feb 02 09:36
oiaohm2 Mysql raw own data is far lighter. Feb 02 09:37
schestowitz http://www.itwire.com/content/view… << re: Linus on GNOME Feb 02 09:37
oiaohm2 Of all things I though I would have this week off.   The jobs I love are auditing systems and data recovery because they pay well. Feb 02 09:43
oiaohm2 I now have the job of building a 3d website. Feb 02 09:43
oiaohm2 I normally avoid web development like the plague. Feb 02 09:44
schestowitz 3D? Feb 02 09:44
schestowitz Flash? Feb 02 09:44
oiaohm2 What ever I choose. Feb 02 09:46
oiaohm2 Yes I get all the nice jobs of we want this make it happen some how. Feb 02 09:47
schestowitz I see you get many flames :-) http://linux-haters-redux.blogspot.c… Feb 02 09:50
kentma1 hehe Feb 02 09:51
schestowitz kentma1: what’s that? Feb 02 09:51
oiaohm2 Hmm Feb 02 09:53
oiaohm2 off to watch to gear will be back latter Feb 02 09:53
PeterKraus topgear?! Feb 02 09:54
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MinceR j0 Feb 02 10:27
schestowitz I’m doing the DRM post Feb 02 10:30
schestowitz 3 exhibits Feb 02 10:30
oiaohm2 Yes topgear I typoed Feb 02 10:31
oiaohm2 I am in Australia Feb 02 10:31
schestowitz Music DRM = Microsoft “born here” technoloigy Feb 02 10:31
schestowitz ø per second: 83.94 (still rising) Feb 02 10:38
schestowitz No DB restored, either Feb 02 10:39
schestowitz I have like 10 posts to make Feb 02 10:39
amarsh04 hi oiaohm2 – I’m in Adelaide Feb 02 10:44
*amarsh04 must go to sleep, has to be up in just over 6 hours for a 12 hour shift Feb 02 10:45
oiaohm2 Linux hater redux is still purelly incompetent. Feb 02 11:15
oiaohm2 I realy do miss the non redux.  At least he was on the money more of the time. Feb 02 11:16
schestowitz it’s u, right? Feb 02 11:18
oiaohm2 I am always oiaohm Feb 02 11:21
oiaohm2 Ok the 2 bit at the moment is miss placed password to freenode. Feb 02 11:21
schestowitz ø per second: 86.53 Feb 02 11:23
schestowitz Still no DB restored Feb 02 11:24
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schestowitz This is a test of patience. I guess I can write posts ‘on the dry’ and proofread then, by they are lines up like bullets. Feb 02 11:24
schestowitz *lined Feb 02 11:24
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oiaohm Bingo remembered my password for freenode at long last Feb 02 11:25
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MinceR he was on the money some of the time? Feb 02 11:31
MinceR the posts i’ve seen so far on that blog fail hard. Feb 02 11:31
oiaohm Linux hater redux has never been right. Feb 02 11:31
oiaohm Linux Hater did have about 5 major articals that were dead on that spreed and caused fixes in the Linux world. Feb 02 11:32
oiaohm Hater that is correct can see things fixed. Feb 02 11:32
schestowitz Do you know who he was? Feb 02 11:32
schestowitz Miguel knows him. Feb 02 11:32
schestowitz Beranger vanished onto the horizon. Feb 02 11:33
oiaohm I never knew Linux Hater in person.  But his writing style did suggest one particular author that did start off proLinux. Feb 02 11:34
oiaohm There always should be Haters.   No matter how good a OS there should be real findable defects. Feb 02 11:35
*zer0c00l agrees with oiaohm Feb 02 11:36
oiaohm I have nothing against true researched haters.   I just hate these non researched haters. Feb 02 11:36
oiaohm Like Beranger not knowning that com started in windows in 1989 its formal spec was released in 1993.   Stuff like protection from files from overwriting when multiable programs writing to it without locking depends on something like com. Feb 02 11:37
schestowitz Ballmer and cancer hate come to mind. Feb 02 11:37
MinceR knowing a defect doesn’t mean having to hate Feb 02 11:37
schestowitz Calling a blog LinuxHaters is another way. Feb 02 11:38
oiaohm If the defect is stoping you from doing something important hate is a understanble responce MinceR Feb 02 11:38
MinceR not all defects do Feb 02 11:38
schestowitz BTW, The backup/DB disaster led me to checking other possible ‘Maydays’, such as my passwords that are in some proprietary Palm PDB. I can scoop it up manually shall something go wrong or just rely on some apps. Feb 02 11:38
oiaohm Yep people learn the importance of data either after they lose it or almost lose it. Feb 02 11:40
zer0c00l when i used windoze my download manager was orbitdownloader which splits and downloads faster….I dont know there are such download managers exist in linux…but i never hated linux for that Feb 02 11:40
zer0c00l do you people know any such download manager Feb 02 11:40
oiaohm There are a few downloaders like that for Linux. Feb 02 11:41
oiaohm Even commandline ones. Feb 02 11:42
oiaohm Currently cannot search and get list. Feb 02 11:42
zer0c00l i agree there exist…but when it comes to integration with firefox they suck a lot Feb 02 11:43
zer0c00l that proprietary software uses some firefox extension and gives pretty integration Feb 02 11:43
zer0c00l is there any such download manager exist for linux? Feb 02 11:44
oiaohm Ok better check my other machine. Feb 02 11:44
oiaohm Next time I am on it.  It does have good intergratation from firefox to a few of them under Linux. Feb 02 11:45
oiaohm Spliting does not help much any more under windows if you don’t remove the MS TCP/IP limiter. Feb 02 11:45
schestowitz Or server capacity Feb 02 11:46
schestowitz Peers are different Feb 02 11:46
schestowitz Use torrent Feb 02 11:46
oiaohm Numbers of half open connections. Feb 02 11:47
zer0c00l i am behind a proxy so i use imageshack.us torrent downloading service…when i try to download those files using downloader for x.i never downloaded for me Feb 02 11:47
zer0c00l *it Feb 02 11:48
oiaohm You did change the user agent string of downloader for x Feb 02 11:49
oiaohm I have had that on a few sites.   Downloader for X agent string equals no connection. Feb 02 11:49
oiaohm Yes site maintains do have a good reason to ban it.   It can cause way too much load on there poor servers compared to Windows clients. Feb 02 11:50
zer0c00l in fedora 10 they dropped downloader for x Feb 02 11:50
oiaohm Personally I don’t touch fedora with a 10 foot barge pole. Feb 02 11:50
oiaohm Most likely they have something curl based instead. Feb 02 11:51
schestowitz oiaohm: touch Fedora 10 with a bargepole? Feb 02 11:52
*zer0c00l too wonders what is it Feb 02 11:53
oiaohm Fedora have you seen there kernel build. Feb 02 11:53
oiaohm 1000 and 1 warning messages. Feb 02 11:53
oiaohm Warnings exist for very good reasons.  I prefer my kernels built warning less thank you. Feb 02 11:54
oiaohm That kind of thing spreeds threw fedoras complete source base. Feb 02 11:54
oiaohm Note that a kernel from kernel.org normally builds without a single warning message.   They have completely come from poor quality patches applied to kernel. Feb 02 11:55
zer0c00l i agree oiaohm Feb 02 11:56
zer0c00l i got warning messages when i compiled the kernel for my project Feb 02 11:56
zer0c00l will it affect any thing? why its not good Feb 02 11:57
oiaohm Warnings are about things not checking right to the complier. Feb 02 11:57
oiaohm Problem is not bad enough to cause 100 percent sure failure. Feb 02 11:57
oiaohm But each one could be a failure complier has failed to confirm that its not. Feb 02 11:58
oiaohm So yes warnings are bad. Feb 02 11:58
zer0c00l the funniest thing i did is i tried to compile 2.6.28 kernel in RHEL 5 , and it resulted in a kernel panic Feb 02 11:58
oiaohm Worst thing I ever did was build kde 3.0 on a 255 pent. Feb 02 11:59
oiaohm 255 mhz pent Feb 02 11:59
oiaohm That took a few days. Feb 02 11:59
zer0c00l lol Feb 02 12:00
oiaohm I still have the 255 pent Feb 02 12:00
oiaohm Really should fire it up and build kde 4.2 on it for the fun of it some time. Feb 02 12:00
zer0c00l microsoft addicts usually stare at my computer when i compile the kernel Feb 02 12:01
zer0c00l that will be fun Feb 02 12:01
oiaohm More fun is that my Linux Laptop is fully setup for network secuirty testing. Feb 02 12:02
zer0c00l oh Feb 02 12:02
zer0c00l great Feb 02 12:02
zer0c00l snort? Feb 02 12:02
oiaohm About 100 packages decated to the task. Feb 02 12:02
oiaohm Including about 15 that are just mine. Feb 02 12:02
zer0c00l i use ettercap, nmap ,metasploit Feb 02 12:03
zer0c00l just a script kidde thing Feb 02 12:03
zer0c00l what you use oiaohm Feb 02 12:03
oiaohm Windows guy going on how secure windows is.  I say just plug your sever in and I will see how long it lasts. Feb 02 12:03
zer0c00l hahaha Feb 02 12:04
oiaohm I can secure windows servers to a point my Linux machine cannot get in. Feb 02 12:04
zer0c00l i cracked my schools windows server password and used to steal question papers Feb 02 12:04
oiaohm Simplest way is a Network card with Linux embeded and filters. Feb 02 12:04
oiaohm Boy does that make MS people cry. Feb 02 12:05
zer0c00l they still dont know abt it Feb 02 12:05
zer0c00l poor people Feb 02 12:05
oiaohm It also boost threw put by 20 percent. Feb 02 12:05
zer0c00l i have access to all their servers including the webserver Feb 02 12:06
oiaohm Yep they are really screwed without Linux they don’t have performance. Feb 02 12:06
oiaohm Ever had the fun of using a TILE64 card. Feb 02 12:06
oiaohm People like to steal exam paper answers use to hate me. Feb 02 12:08
zer0c00l hahah Feb 02 12:08
zer0c00l :D Feb 02 12:08
oiaohm I would always print 50 exam paper answer sheets per exam only 1 was right. Feb 02 12:08
MinceR :D Feb 02 12:08
oiaohm Yep opening the file was no help to you at all. Feb 02 12:08
zer0c00l hahaha they have to study all the 50 papers Feb 02 12:09
zer0c00l :D Feb 02 12:09
MinceR why even let them have the file? Feb 02 12:09
schestowitz So that’s how a 9-yo passed the MCSE test… Feb 02 12:09
MinceR lol Feb 02 12:09
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zer0c00l :D Feb 02 12:09
schestowitz password: peach Feb 02 12:09
oiaohm Who said I left the correct answer sheet in the file for them to have. Feb 02 12:09
MinceR :> Feb 02 12:10
oiaohm No matter what you do a theif can always find away.  Final defence is obsecrity. Feb 02 12:10
oiaohm Some cases I never even bothered making a correct answer sheet. Feb 02 12:11
oiaohm I also did the same with exams.   I would pull one out a stack and photocopy it on the day of the exam. Feb 02 12:12
oiaohm Yep never had a single student with me cheat by exam access. Feb 02 12:12
schestowitz http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/web… “Australian teachers are failing to effectively intervene in school cyber bullying, with “significant progress” needed to help bring them up to speed with interactive internet tools.” Feb 02 12:13
schestowitz “Kill tah internets,” said the teacher Feb 02 12:13
oiaohm Hmm I should visit the schools in my area Feb 02 12:13
oiaohm I have a firewall box that will do the job perfectly. Feb 02 12:14
oiaohm Ok kids will not like it. Feb 02 12:14
*zer0c00l says internet is like a mirror if you dont like what you see dont blame the internet Feb 02 12:14
MinceR blame the people who put it there :> Feb 02 12:15
schestowitz I didn’t realise the Telegraph is known as “Torygraph” :-) Feb 02 12:15
MinceR the content, that is Feb 02 12:15
oiaohm Most schools don’t have the IT skills to hunt cyber bulls down and anyone taking part. Feb 02 12:15
oiaohm One school I did work with in the past I was quite effective at stamping it out. Feb 02 12:15
schestowitz MinceR: unless they say the truth (the messenger), in which case examine own behaviour Feb 02 12:15
oiaohm Basically anyone caught with anything releated to cyberbulling was punished. Feb 02 12:15
MinceR indeed Feb 02 12:15
oiaohm Zero tollerence works quike well. Feb 02 12:16
zer0c00l yeah Feb 02 12:16
schestowitz Groklaw was worried about people whom it flagged Feb 02 12:16
schestowitz For, well… things they just did Feb 02 12:16
schestowitz You don’t want to be a “crony for Microsoft”, then don’t be. Feb 02 12:16
zer0c00l it happened in my school when they failed technically block ultrasurf.. “Any one who found using ultrasurf will be fined” Feb 02 12:17
schestowitz You don’t want to be an “anti-Linux persona”, then stop it. Feb 02 12:17
schestowitz nmap is illegal here and in Germany, apparently Feb 02 12:17
zer0c00l oh Feb 02 12:17
schestowitz Because, you know, giving tools to people make them CRIMINA~1 Feb 02 12:17
schestowitz Let’s stop selling kitchen knives too Feb 02 12:18
oiaohm Australia is interesting. Feb 02 12:18
oiaohm I can legally have network attack tools. Feb 02 12:18
oiaohm Since I am a auditor/system admin/data recovery Feb 02 12:18
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oiaohm yet normal person could be charged under the same law as lock picks. Feb 02 12:18
oiaohm And I have used that from time to time to stop people bring in breaking software when they should not be. Feb 02 12:19
oiaohm Wonder if Germany is the same. Feb 02 12:19
oiaohm Here knives that are sharp must be sold cased. Feb 02 12:19
oiaohm You are not allowed to carry a knive in a public place any more. Feb 02 12:20
oiaohm Unless its cased. Feb 02 12:20
schestowitz What’s “in public”? Feb 02 12:21
schestowitz You don’t see people running around waving knives in thew streets Feb 02 12:21
zer0c00l railway station ,airport Feb 02 12:21
zer0c00l :D Feb 02 12:21
schestowitz You also have no people running around with PDAs and nmap on them Feb 02 12:21
schestowitz Murder rarely happens in public places Feb 02 12:21
schestowitz So this point is moor Feb 02 12:22
schestowitz *t Feb 02 12:22
oiaohm Ok me did have a pda with nmap. Feb 02 12:22
zer0c00l me too Feb 02 12:22
zer0c00l i wardrive Feb 02 12:22
oiaohm It also had wireshark and a few wireless hacking tools. Feb 02 12:22
oiaohm pda was for business secuirty checking. Feb 02 12:23
oiaohm Leave it behind running and see if number 1 it get turned off number two if it breaches the network number 3 I get it back no questions asked. Feb 02 12:23
oiaohm I would of course have a contract to check there secuirty first. Feb 02 12:24
oiaohm It works 100 percent of the time. Feb 02 12:24
oiaohm Until staff know that a left behind PDA could be harmful. Feb 02 12:24
schestowitz IDG is again out with an anti-”migration to Linux” message: http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/mgmt/E… Feb 02 12:24
MinceR oh noes, nmap! everybody get down to the floor! Feb 02 12:24
MinceR ;) Feb 02 12:24
schestowitz They last did this just over a week ago. Is IDC pulling strings for its (pay)masters? Feb 02 12:25
oiaohm Does not matter here I am most likely going to covert over 1000 people in a local computer club. Feb 02 12:26
schestowitz covet? :-) Feb 02 12:26
oiaohm Most of them cannot afford windows. Feb 02 12:29
oiaohm MS is basically pricing themselfs out market. Feb 02 12:29
schestowitz Yes Feb 02 12:30
schestowitz But they try to eliminate competition Feb 02 12:30
schestowitz I.e. reduce choice Feb 02 12:30
schestowitz And Comes shows this well. Feb 02 12:30
oiaohm Unix to Linux that one is partly correct at times. Feb 02 12:30
schestowitz Now, if only I could carry on posting :-) Feb 02 12:30
oiaohm That is not always cheeper. Feb 02 12:30
schestowitz I’m tempted to just bring the new DB up to date Feb 02 12:30
schestowitz But that’s not solving the issue and it’s 7AM over at the host Feb 02 12:31
oiaohm That is a option schestowitz Feb 02 12:31
schestowitz oiaohm: but what it this recurs? Feb 02 12:31
schestowitz No waiting for some diagnosis? Feb 02 12:31
oiaohm Upto day no comments allowed will protect the mysql from harming self. Feb 02 12:31
oiaohm I guess nothing else on page writes to db. Feb 02 12:32
oiaohm Its called safe mode of database operations. Feb 02 12:32
schestowitz That’s to do with keeping the ‘broken’ DB without added (missing) components Feb 02 12:32
schestowitz Until it comes back Feb 02 12:32
schestowitz I was writing to the DB when it failed Feb 02 12:33
schestowitz When the server was rebooted Feb 02 12:33
schestowitz Or around that time Feb 02 12:33
schestowitz I was doing a post and then there was no DB Feb 02 12:33
oiaohm That would explain failed database. Feb 02 12:33
oiaohm Bad write. Feb 02 12:33
schestowitz I guess it rebooted, but the DB was no longer there. Feb 02 12:33
schestowitz So you think that just writing something took the whole server down? Feb 02 12:33
oiaohm There but not readable. Feb 02 12:33
oiaohm No Feb 02 12:34
oiaohm Server crash just lined up at the wrong moment. Feb 02 12:34
schestowitz Ahh.. Feb 02 12:34
schestowitz And the host can correct this? Feb 02 12:34
schestowitz Without taking old copies of the DB..? Feb 02 12:34
oiaohm Old copy has to remain incase it was not your write. Feb 02 12:35
oiaohm If it was your write mysql repair there end should work. Feb 02 12:35
schestowitz I guess I’ll wait Feb 02 12:35
oiaohm Now if it was something else like db being on a bad disk section. Feb 02 12:35
oiaohm It could be lot harder to recover. Feb 02 12:36
schestowitz Non-lossy recovery? Feb 02 12:36
oiaohm Yep. Feb 02 12:36
oiaohm Normally internal backups of mysql work. Feb 02 12:36
oiaohm You don’t want to write to damage database until host side is shown to be ok. Feb 02 12:37
schestowitz *damaged? Feb 02 12:37
oiaohm You write a block to a damage file due to drive you can release the damage section on disk to be reused by something more important. Feb 02 12:37
oiaohm Yep go from a lost DB to a crashing server every 5 secs. Feb 02 12:38
oiaohm Basically there are a few checks that need to happen host side. Feb 02 12:38
oiaohm Higher than normal load also can be caused by bad ram. Feb 02 12:39
oiaohm If services are restarting lot more than normal. Feb 02 12:39
oiaohm How much information does the web interfaces tell you. Feb 02 12:40
oiaohm Does it tell you the last times services restarted? Feb 02 12:40
schestowitz RAM usage is about 60% on the box Feb 02 12:41
macabe_ ECC & Chipkill no worry as RAM is continously ck’ing itself Feb 02 12:41
schestowitz I cannot see uptime without phpshell of the likes Feb 02 12:41
schestowitz I can see DB uptime Feb 02 12:41
schestowitz “With the UK being brought to a halt by snow, Linux users may wish to bring snow to their desktop.” http://www.heise-online.co.uk/open/Snow… << snows here endlessly today Feb 02 12:41
schestowitz One thing I do see in the IRC log (with timestamp) Feb 02 12:42
schestowitz is that the server restarted around the same time (minutes) that I had the issue Feb 02 12:42
schestowitz So it’s related to the rebooting somehow Feb 02 12:42
oiaohm The question is what caused the reboot Feb 02 12:42
schestowitz Or maybe the boot caused the issue? Feb 02 12:43
oiaohm Without the server logs we cannot be sure. Feb 02 12:43
schestowitz without access to /var/mysql or whatever I don’t know either. Feb 02 12:43
oiaohm this is the problem we have lack of information. Feb 02 12:44
oiaohm You need information to make a informed selection of action. Feb 02 12:44
oiaohm I would be asking for webaccess to logs at a min. Feb 02 12:44
oiaohm For next time so you can see what in hell happened. Feb 02 12:45
oiaohm If its was like a kernel update where the system shut down cleanly at the wrong time. Feb 02 12:45
oiaohm Is one thing if it is hardware caused its another. Feb 02 12:45
oiaohm If its attacker caused that is a completely different game. Feb 02 12:45
schestowitz I can’t find that Feb 02 12:46
schestowitz I’m still looking Feb 02 12:46
schestowitz phpMyAdmin doesn’t expose that Feb 02 12:46
schestowitz “This MySQL server has been running for 1 days, 1 hours, 26 minutes and 41 seconds. It started up on Feb 01, 2009 at 06:23 AM.” Feb 02 12:47
oiaohm Lot of these hosters under exestmate the importances of having logs. Feb 02 12:47
schestowitz 11:23AM GMT Feb 02 12:47
oiaohm dmesg from kernel is kinda important. Feb 02 12:48
oiaohm To see if it shutdown at that point. Feb 02 12:48
oiaohm Ie cleanly shutdown.  Or was kicked over by a watchdog or hardware failure. Feb 02 12:48
oiaohm There is also the chance Mysql was the only thing to restrart too. Feb 02 12:49
oiaohm I guess you cannot see the http server log either ? Feb 02 12:49
schestowitz No, not really. Feb 02 12:50
schestowitz Is the DB server on the same box? Feb 02 12:50
schestowitz I don’t know, but it’s localhost Feb 02 12:50
schestowitz Which I suppose means that it’s on the same box Feb 02 12:50
oiaohm localhost equals same box. Feb 02 12:53
oiaohm Or at least same cluster Feb 02 12:53
schestowitz Yes, that’s what I though, unless it’s mapped to ‘fake’ locality Feb 02 12:54
schestowitz I’m watching system variables and everything, but no logs I can access Feb 02 12:54
schestowitz Even if I found the logs, I can’t repair, just made judgment. Feb 02 12:55
schestowitz The assumption is that this can recur unless the host is made aware of what happened and why Feb 02 12:55
schestowitz If part of the bridge falls and misses people’s head you don’t just sigh in relief and move on, you fix the bridge. We had this incident in Manchester 2 years ago. The bridge was beneath the rail track near the cirty centre. Feb 02 12:56
oiaohm Yep just like a bridge while its not fixed complete thing could fail too. Feb 02 12:58
oiaohm Reason why the first thing I asked did you have all backups. Feb 02 12:59
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schestowitz Obama’s Climate Change Negotiator Comes With PR Pedigree http://www.prwatch.org/node/8182 “He has also frequently advised on crisis management matters, including advising on the development and execution of media strategy that is sensitive to both underlying legal concerns and public relations imperatives.” The firm’s website does not identify which clients he has worked for.” Feb 02 13:03
schestowitz Well, Obama campaign *is* PR. Feb 02 13:03
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schestowitz Noise keeps coming from IDG/IDC.. they link to Net Applications BS to give it credibility… Look! We have some pies! What do they measure? Well, not a proper population. The IDG lackeys keeps linking to < http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2008/0… > non scientific measures! Feb 02 13:09
schestowitz http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-no… ” The Iraqi government, showing a little independence, has ordered Blackwater out of the country. However, if it wants to show real independence, it should free the shoe-thrower of Baghdad, and drop teh case against him. “ Feb 02 13:14
schestowitz Shoe-throwers go to prison, mass murderers are hailed as heroes. Feb 02 13:14
schestowitz Chaos in France… 70% rise against the Sarkofascism Feb 02 13:16
schestowitz French workers down tools in general strike over handling of financial crisis < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/29/… > Feb 02 13:16
oiaohm This financial crisis has cost me contracts. Feb 02 13:17
schestowitz Everyone’s Feb 02 13:17
oiaohm Over 64000 and counting. Feb 02 13:17
schestowitz I keep wondering about those who claim to have made money from it all. Feb 02 13:17
schestowitz Like G Soros Feb 02 13:17
oiaohm Yes I really do mess that ammount of money. Feb 02 13:18
oiaohm I am starting to see money coming back in again. Feb 02 13:18
schestowitz Paul Allen lost at least 7 bil Feb 02 13:18
oiaohm More open source training. Feb 02 13:18
oiaohm So by the end of it I could end up ahead. Feb 02 13:18
schestowitz Open source is chosen for cost now…. later the Free software message might kick into people’s heads Feb 02 13:18
schestowitz Along with realisation of ethical issues and the dangers of ‘free market’ Feb 02 13:19
schestowitz On “Free market”: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S… Feb 02 13:20
schestowitz The Anti-Stimulus Crowd Blows a Gasket < http://www.truthout.org/012609A > Feb 02 13:21
schestowitz ”  The anti-stimulus crowd is getting desperate. The possibility that a young charismatic new president will push through an ambitious package that begins to set the economy right is truly terrifying to this crew. After all, if the economy begins to turn around and has largely recovered in three or four years, the Republican leadership can look forward to spending most of their careers in the political wilderness.” Feb 02 13:21
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schestowitz EliteWars(R) Feb 02 13:21
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schestowitz OMG. http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/1231… (Revealed: Bailed-Out Execs Plotting Against EFCA). So the money they receive from taxpayers (‘bailout’) is now being used to bribe (aka ‘lobby’) against unionisation Feb 02 13:22
macabe_ None of the funds are directed at the people who are really funding the bailouts (The Tax Payer) Feb 02 13:24
schestowitz Maybe it’s time to pay more attention to economic and political corruption and less to computing. The crime out there is surfacing now. Feb 02 13:25
schestowitz macabe_: well, lobbyists pay tax too…. http://www.bermanexposed.org Feb 02 13:25
macabe_ But they direct their ‘tax’ where they see a return. Feb 02 13:26
macabe_ Equ=Bribes Feb 02 13:26
schestowitz Yes Feb 02 13:27
schestowitz Lobbying is to be known as “legalised bribery” Feb 02 13:27
oiaohm Lot of people are shocked how much I can do for nothing. Feb 02 13:27
schestowitz Global Warming Fix? Some Of Earth’s Climate Troubles Should Face Burial At Sea, Scientists Say < http://www.sciencedaily.com/rele… > Feb 02 13:28
oiaohm Like building complete Flash applications at no cost in software. Feb 02 13:28
oiaohm I operate quite well on a Zero software budget most of the time. Feb 02 13:28
schestowitz oiaohm: Linux Today: Money is Not Wealth <  http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.ph… > Feb 02 13:28
schestowitz In s/w, spendings != quality Feb 02 13:29
schestowitz It means perception of quality Feb 02 13:29
oiaohm There is money in open source software. Feb 02 13:29
schestowitz Like my crappy Nike pair of shoes that falls apart after months of use. Cheaper shoes are better and endure for years Feb 02 13:29
oiaohm People also need training. Feb 02 13:29
schestowitz But hey! Tiger Woods has a Nike cap!! : DD Feb 02 13:29
oiaohm As I said I am a very multi sided employee. Feb 02 13:30
*MinceR prefers adidas :> Feb 02 13:30
oiaohm Admin some days.  System auditoer another,  Builder another,  Cable layer another, Teacher another and Web developer Feb 02 13:30
oiaohm Opps left out data recovery expert. Feb 02 13:30
macabe_ Nike caps made by sweatshops Feb 02 13:31
oiaohm So far  don’t know what to put on my business card. Feb 02 13:31
schestowitz There’s an ethical issue with these Feb 02 13:34
schestowitz But the socio-economical conditions are put in place to force people into this Feb 02 13:35
schestowitz People are forced to grow coco(aine) in Colmbia or starve Feb 02 13:35
schestowitz Then they get attacked by chemical weapons and treated like criminals Feb 02 13:35
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macabe_ Lady in a hurry to cross street to get to work, killed by SUV. Guy in SUV was on phone, sipping starbucks coffee. Feb 02 13:36
macabe_ Dead lady left 5 orphans. Feb 02 13:36
schestowitz Likewise, sweatshops offer the only labour one if forced into… and what option do people have but to buy that stuff? Too little. Feb 02 13:36
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schestowitz Super-Predators: Humans Force Rapid Evolution of Animals < http://www.livescience.com/anima… > Feb 02 13:36
oiaohm_ Ok schestowitz with secuirty auditing hardware has to be updated from time time same with data recovery. Feb 02 13:37
schestowitz macabe_: got a link? Phone AND coffee? Feb 02 13:37
oiaohm_ Out of that 64000 over half was ear marked for tool replacement. Feb 02 13:37
schestowitz 64000 what? Feb 02 13:37
oiaohm_ 64000 australian Feb 02 13:38
oiaohm_ dollars Feb 02 13:38
oiaohm_ That is how much I have lost in contracts since the mess started. Feb 02 13:38
schestowitz ic.. Feb 02 13:38
schestowitz Well, here’s how to look at it Feb 02 13:38
macabe_ Democrat & Chronicle was the news, no link, But I was there and was telling the cops the dude was on the phone. Feb 02 13:38
schestowitz No-one was immune. Everyone is equally f*ed, except for those who pillaged for many years Feb 02 13:38
schestowitz That’s why 70% in France now support a protest (c.f. link above) Feb 02 13:39
schestowitz Sarko gave the country away to private tyrannies, many of which are not even France. Feb 02 13:39
oiaohm_ Ok last time I used MS software at home was 6 years ago. Feb 02 13:39
schestowitz He told France to elite groups with elements of tatalities. Feb 02 13:39
oiaohm_ Most of my work is Linux based. Feb 02 13:39
schestowitz *totalities Feb 02 13:39
oiaohm_ So yes pain.  MS guys are doing worse. Feb 02 13:40
macabe_ This was on my way to work last week. Reason for me to stay and witness was I saw it. Cops ignored it. Feb 02 13:40
schestowitz I touched WIndows when I needed to reboot into the Live CD in my parents’ house. Feb 02 13:40
oiaohm_ One of the MS guys has lost in contracts over 2 million. Feb 02 13:40
schestowitz That’s how ‘close’ I ever get to Microsoft software. Feb 02 13:40
oiaohm_ I am not going to go broke. Feb 02 13:40
schestowitz I get mail from people whose workforce was cut by over 50% Feb 02 13:41
oiaohm_ Its just going to be tight. Feb 02 13:41
schestowitz The middle class stays out of being broke Feb 02 13:41
oiaohm_ I am going to have to make some of the hardware last longer. Feb 02 13:41
schestowitz But the issue is NOT that Feb 02 13:41
schestowitz The issue are those who go hungry of insanly sesparate Feb 02 13:41
oiaohm_ Issue for me is using hardware that should have been binned and replaced. Feb 02 13:41
schestowitz They’ll put a knife to you neck demanding money Feb 02 13:41
oiaohm_ Once hardware gets past a particular age it starts becoming not dependable. Feb 02 13:42
schestowitz Yes. Feb 02 13:42
schestowitz Cybercrime will rise also Feb 02 13:42
schestowitz It already does Feb 02 13:42
schestowitz 2009: cybercrime keeps increasing… out of work IT wizards who are bitter and vengeful Feb 02 13:43
oiaohm_ Not like I have not picked up new contracts. Feb 02 13:43
oiaohm_ I expect by end of 2009 I will be back to level or ahead. Feb 02 13:43
oiaohm_ Its the short term incoventence. Feb 02 13:43
oiaohm_ Poor MS guy does not see a way back. Feb 02 13:43
macabe_ Kodak just laid-off another 20% last week. Not news in this area. Feb 02 13:44
macabe_ Majority was IT support. Feb 02 13:45
schestowitz 20%? Feb 02 13:46
schestowitz yea… no news Feb 02 13:46
oiaohm_ Some business have droped IT personal. Feb 02 13:46
schestowitz I keep good track of these Feb 02 13:46
oiaohm_ Lot are MS personal. Feb 02 13:46
schestowitz The IRC channel anyway… mostly IT issues. Feb 02 13:46
oiaohm_ That will not retrain. Feb 02 13:46
macabe_ Local paper D&C has good relations with them. Feb 02 13:47
schestowitz Repugnant: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Recycled_loy… Feb 02 13:47
schestowitz Some of the slogans and schemes there. Feb 02 13:48
macabe_ Most corporations stopped matching 401′s; not news Feb 02 13:48
schestowitz Like pro-war shirts some of them.. or pro-bribery or whatever. Feb 02 13:48
schestowitz 401k OH.. Feb 02 13:48
schestowitz I though oiaohm_ said this Feb 02 13:48
macabe_ Kodak’s screwing retirees health plan; not news Feb 02 13:48
schestowitz macabe_: yes, only the US calls them that, eh? Feb 02 13:48
schestowitz 401k = “future is bright” vapourware Feb 02 13:48
schestowitz Enron veterans found out earlier than the rest ;-) Feb 02 13:49
oiaohm_ cybercrime depends on human stupidity. Feb 02 13:49
schestowitz The phone company here sort of went bust Feb 02 13:49
schestowitz They owe me money Feb 02 13:49
schestowitz Now I’m just being bounces between “him”, “her”, “them”, “this number” and so on. You can’t see the money that they owe you. That’s 2009 ‘justice’ Feb 02 13:50
oiaohm_ Ok buzz broadband? Feb 02 13:50
oiaohm_ Like that? Feb 02 13:50
schestowitz ? Feb 02 13:51
macabe_ Don’t understand why the push against a gold ‘metal’ standard. Feb 02 13:51
oiaohm_ One phone company here shut up shop buzz broadband.  They were really quick about it inside 48 hours people went from having working phones to no phone. Feb 02 13:51
schestowitz Gang’s PR @ blogging: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/QA_Microso… Feb 02 13:51
macabe_ Fedreal Resrve ‘presses’ working overtime printing money Feb 02 13:52
oiaohm_ Not even a bonce.  It was just disconnected. Feb 02 13:52
schestowitz These people can really believe it when they beautify a corporation’s crime against an industry and society: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/QA_Microso… He’s also the pisser who threatens FOSS and Linux with patents Feb 02 13:52
schestowitz macabe_: question to you (cause you seem to know this well) Feb 02 13:53
schestowitz Say the US has over 10tri in debt Feb 02 13:53
oiaohm_ Patents are a limited threat. Feb 02 13:53
oiaohm_ They are a bigger threat for people with money. Feb 02 13:53
schestowitz Now, in the past it could claim assurance with assets and revenue Feb 02 13:53
oiaohm_ You cannot get blood out a stone. Feb 02 13:53
oiaohm_ No matter how hard you try. Feb 02 13:53
schestowitz Then umemployment rises, replaced by benefits (minuses) Feb 02 13:53
schestowitz At the same time, market cap of US assets like GM drop sharply Feb 02 13:54
schestowitz What does that mean to paying back the debt. How does the workforce repay it? Feb 02 13:54
schestowitz oiaohm_: it’s “them” who set the rules though Feb 02 13:54
schestowitz Watch IBM trying to stifle trolls while keeping the same ‘protection’ (broken system with sw patents) Feb 02 13:55
oiaohm_ Who has patents hurt more. Feb 02 13:55
oiaohm_ Ones who wanted patents or thoses who did not. Feb 02 13:55
macabe_ Gov won’t tell you, but the scales have to even out. The taxpayer has to work harder to pay up. Feb 02 13:55
oiaohm_ If you look at the cases more trolls are attacking the ones who wanted them. Feb 02 13:55
macabe_ In 1961 you could buy a Corvette with 16 golden eagles. In 2009 you could buy a Corvette with 16 golden eagles. Feb 02 13:56
schestowitz macabe_: doing what? Farming? Feb 02 13:56
schestowitz Building commerce around technology production in the States is not bound to be competitive compared to the east Feb 02 13:57
macabe_ Farming is at an all time low. Many are corporate farms, e.g. general mills, etc. Feb 02 13:57
oiaohm_ People are not watching closely enough. Feb 02 13:57
schestowitz I think there is a huge problem here — more than 90% of the population realises and the government is willing to tell people. Feb 02 13:58
oiaohm_ People forget farmmer had some of the largest debts. Feb 02 13:58
oiaohm_ No farmmers no food. Feb 02 13:58
schestowitz Or no mortgages no food? Feb 02 13:58
schestowitz They will probably need to nationalise eventually. Feb 02 13:58
macabe_ They get subsidized not to grow things. Feb 02 13:58
oiaohm_ Australia were are not that bad off here. Feb 02 13:59
schestowitz The sustainability question, based on what happens in France ATM, seems to suggest that unrest will turn more countries into police states and lead to confrntation Feb 02 13:59
oiaohm_ Minor havic but be have seen worse. Feb 02 13:59
schestowitz where? Feb 02 13:59
macabe_ Create fake shortages of commodities. Feb 02 13:59
schestowitz Are you 70+ years old? Feb 02 13:59
oiaohm_ Yep the ressession we had to have that one of our political leaders created on Australia. Feb 02 13:59
oiaohm_ So far its not that bad. Feb 02 14:00
schestowitz They try to control info in Aussie Feb 02 14:00
oiaohm_ that was only in the 19xx Feb 02 14:00
schestowitz Conroy et al Feb 02 14:00
schestowitz There are protests about that Feb 02 14:00
schestowitz It’s no longer about child-molesting TERROR~1 anymore, either. Now they just have a secret list of banned sites Feb 02 14:00
oiaohm_ Australian goverment is sick of over 10 billion dollars a year going in niggreian scams. Feb 02 14:01
oiaohm_ With a good block from Australia Feb 02 14:01
schestowitz That’s social engineering Feb 02 14:01
schestowitz It’s not a Web problem Feb 02 14:01
schestowitz They should stop policing the Internet and instead banish the spam-spewing botnets (mostly Windows) Feb 02 14:02
oiaohm_ Other thing that has upset people is pirated software sites being blocked. Feb 02 14:02
oiaohm_ MS really should have been careful what they asked for. Feb 02 14:02
oiaohm_ That is the other thing the filter is about schestowitz is bot nets and worms. Feb 02 14:03
schestowitz 9am at the host’s side, still no db showing Feb 02 14:03
oiaohm_ Australian internet backbone is not large. Feb 02 14:03
schestowitz People will share with or without the net Feb 02 14:03
oiaohm_ Part of the idea is really to reduce bandwidth usage. Feb 02 14:04
schestowitz They have CD-ROMs (which apparently are now ‘owned’ by the MAFIAA too) Feb 02 14:04
oiaohm_ Block uncachable stuff. Feb 02 14:04
oiaohm_ Try getting a CD threw Australian post fast. Feb 02 14:05
macabe_ Is it the extra .02 cents on the purchase of CD’s Feb 02 14:05
oiaohm_ Never underextemate the bandwidth of a truck with harddrives going down the highway. Feb 02 14:05
oiaohm_ One way good filtering could make that effective for somethings. Feb 02 14:07
schestowitz What they do, like with DRM, is inconvenience those who are innocent and achieve nothing Feb 02 14:07
schestowitz Eben Moglen: “Everybody is connected to everybody else, all data that can be shared will be shared will be shared: get used to it.” Feb 02 14:07
oiaohm_ One of the wost things for the internet is MS preventing computer mags having windows updates other than sp’s. Feb 02 14:07
oiaohm_ schestowitz: there is sharing and there is screwing it. Feb 02 14:07
oiaohm_ Part of the problem is bittorrent itself. Feb 02 14:08
oiaohm_ Normal web traffic is simple to cache at the ISP servers. Feb 02 14:08
oiaohm_ stuff like bittorrent does not cache well.  So same data to move around really takes more network traffic. Feb 02 14:08
schestowitz What about Akamai? Feb 02 14:09
oiaohm_ Filtering sounds bad but it might be the only way to get on top of traffic problems. Feb 02 14:09
schestowitz You could centralise the files for more people. Feb 02 14:09
oiaohm_ Akamai is most web. Feb 02 14:09
schestowitz Like Telstra (??) and OOo Feb 02 14:09
schestowitz Before they sold out to Microsoft and others, then dropped the mirror Feb 02 14:09
oiaohm_ OOo is still on the telstra file mirror Feb 02 14:10
oiaohm_ Just internal for its ISP customers. Feb 02 14:10
schestowitz People use torrents because the stuff like distro is not there on enough mirrors that are fast perhaps Feb 02 14:10
oiaohm_ Legal content ends up on those mirrors Feb 02 14:10
schestowitz Oh wait.. that’s the ISP with a name like FishPond.. Feb 02 14:11
oiaohm_ and yes it does reduce there problems. Feb 02 14:11
oiaohm_ Bigpond Feb 02 14:11
schestowitz Yes. Feb 02 14:11
oiaohm_ Yes close. Feb 02 14:11
oiaohm_ Now yes mirrors are not fast enough. Feb 02 14:12
oiaohm_ If ISP’s were caching torrents it would still be faster than mirrors. Feb 02 14:12
oiaohm_ torrent has the right idea decentralise.  But stuffed it up.  Decentralised between ISP’s not users is better. Feb 02 14:13
schestowitz More government PR: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti… Feb 02 14:13
schestowitz Give pretense of  “openness”, do (Almost) the same old crimes Feb 02 14:13
oiaohm_ Goverment is a hard thing.  Remember the britsh series yes mister. Feb 02 14:14
*schestowitz looks at news, finds no press releases of significance, reckons that ‘company avalanche’ is pending, not just layoffs Feb 02 14:14
oiaohm_ Most companies are in brace mode. Feb 02 14:15
oiaohm_ Ok failures will come but question is how many. Feb 02 14:15
oiaohm_ Windows 7 is going to be rushed I can bet. Feb 02 14:16
oiaohm_ Because MS cannot wait until 2010 for money. Feb 02 14:16
schestowitz Yes Feb 02 14:16
schestowitz But there won’t be upgrades either Feb 02 14:16
schestowitz I reckon they’ll need to wrestle with PR Feb 02 14:16
schestowitz They already flood the Web with W7 astroturfs Feb 02 14:16
schestowitz Office is another fiasco for them Feb 02 14:17
oiaohm_ This is different this time. Feb 02 14:17
oiaohm_ We have anti-turfers out in numbers. Feb 02 14:17
schestowitz They go to the Web to compete with ‘Office to rent’ (mostly Google Apps) and what many see as “Cheapo” workaround (OOo d/l) Feb 02 14:17
schestowitz Yes, we fight the Turf back Feb 02 14:17
schestowitz But this need to be exposed to the commision Feb 02 14:18
oiaohm_ Notice the numbers fighting back are growing. Feb 02 14:18
schestowitz Microsoft is breaking the law (well, duh, tell Neelie something she doesn’t know) Feb 02 14:18
oiaohm_ MS has lots the bind trust Feb 02 14:18
oiaohm_ Astroturfing depends on it. Feb 02 14:18
schestowitz The ‘ecosystem’ prepares for the worst: http://microsofttracker.com/ Feb 02 14:19
schestowitz I hope the ZDnet cartel collapses soon Feb 02 14:19
schestowitz It serves Microsoft under the CNET-Ziff|Gates embrella Feb 02 14:20
schestowitz *unbrella Feb 02 14:20
oiaohm_ Notice recently znet backed off because anti-turfers come out in numbers. Feb 02 14:21
oiaohm_ The game is changing. Feb 02 14:21
schestowitz Yes Feb 02 14:21
oiaohm_ The anti-turfers are learning how to fight. Feb 02 14:21
schestowitz They are pressure to be less of a marketing dept Feb 02 14:21
oiaohm_ Stick to the facts. Feb 02 14:21
schestowitz See their whitepaper brothel. Feb 02 14:21
schestowitz That’s where they ‘loot the stash’ Feb 02 14:21
schestowitz All kinds of IDC/Gartner trust-corrupting ‘studies’ Feb 02 14:22
oiaohm_ Some how I think I kicked that off with my attackes on Linux Hater Feb 02 14:22
*r0ver (n=r0ver@ has left #boycottnovell Feb 02 14:22
schestowitz Facts!=”consensus” Feb 02 14:22
schestowitz The trouble is that Microsoft goes to great length to set consensus using repetition Feb 02 14:22
schestowitz IDG|IDC is a good example Feb 02 14:22
oiaohm_ Past a lot of anti-turfers would thow insults. Feb 02 14:23
oiaohm_ Notice that has also reduced this year. Feb 02 14:23
schestowitz The whole “WIndows is easy”, “Linux is for servers” mentality that comes from Windinosaurs. Feb 02 14:23
schestowitz Wait.. Feb 02 14:23
oiaohm_ I am sorry they have been right on that point. Feb 02 14:23
oiaohm_ Linux has not had desktop support in kernel. Feb 02 14:23
oiaohm_ Kinda required to have a crash proff desktop.  Ok Windows by design should not fully crash without bad drivers. Feb 02 14:24
oiaohm_ Linux world is also changing in 2009 in ways the MS people cannot dream. Feb 02 14:24
schestowitz Took me ages to find it: http://www.cypherpunks.to/~pete… Feb 02 14:25
schestowitz “rom: George Ou <george_ou@lanarchitect.net> Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 3:54 PM Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz To: XXXXXXXXXXXXX Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz Subject: RE: Gutmann Vista DRM paper uses shoddy Web Forums as source Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz [...] Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz Schneier is a moron if he thinks telling Hollywood no will force them to use Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz non-DRM content.  All you need to do is look at the CableCard fiasco. You give Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz Hollywood the finger and they give you the finger right back because they’d Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz rather NOT have any content on the PC to begin with.  Like Apple, Microsoft Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz will humor Hollywood so they come join the party.  Once they’re in, they’ll Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz get screwed out of their DRM protections because Microsoft won’t patch the DRM Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz holes and let their customers bypass DRM.  The latest DRM stripper for Windows Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz Media has worked for almost 2 months now and Microsoft hasn’t patched it yet. Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz [...] Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz George” Feb 02 14:26
schestowitz “(the “bunch of freaking morons” includes Bruce Schneier and Charlie Demerjian of the Inquirer, whom he refers to in a preceding email).” Feb 02 14:26
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