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02.05.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 4th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:13 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

GNOME Gedit

Enter the IRC channel now

jose__ i’m boring the heck out of myself ..that’s for sure Feb 04 03:07
schestowitz oob: let me check Feb 04 03:10
schestowitz I remember their OOXML stint/stunt Feb 04 03:10
schestowitz Why do they play with criminals? Feb 04 03:11
oob yes. damning with faint praise, organising a pro-ms conference, sabotaging the Oz ISO vote.. Feb 04 03:11
schestowitz Because the criminals say “We’re nice people”? Feb 04 03:11
oob the waughs are wholly self-interested. their raison d’etre is self promotion. FOSS has been their vehicle and they’ll move from it readily when a more suitable vehicle presents itself Feb 04 03:14
oob i have no doubt that jeff has sucked upon the redmond teat financially. Feb 04 03:15
schestowitz I think they get bamboozled by Microsoft/Novell sometimes Feb 04 03:16
schestowitz I don’t think it’s badly intended Feb 04 03:16
schestowitz But Waugh ignores the criminal behaviour of these criminals Feb 04 03:17
schestowitz To make matter worse in such situations, such people expect you to to pardon and hug criminals Feb 04 03:17
oob i disagree – i think that gnome in particular and the community of f/oss has been (and continues to be) cynically exploited by the waughs. Feb 04 03:17
schestowitz Fialing that, they call you names like the daemonisation term of the day (hater|zealot|etc) Feb 04 03:18
oob “vocal minority” is my favorite Feb 04 03:18
schestowitz How could Jeff benefit from Redmond Feb 04 03:18
oob it’s a venacular perpared for them by pr folks in salt lake and redmond Feb 04 03:18
schestowitz Unless the Vole hired him or his wife (not impossible), then I don’t quite see it Feb 04 03:18
schestowitz oob: *LOL* Feb 04 03:19
schestowitz Yes, “vocal minority”*             *copyright, Waugh Partners Feb 04 03:19
oiaohm http://linux-haters.blogspot.com/  LOL 1 char out Feb 04 03:19
oob consultancy fees? how much did jolliffe receive for his anti-odf work? Feb 04 03:19
schestowitz A ot Feb 04 03:19
schestowitz A lot Feb 04 03:19
schestowitz But did they do sellout (aka) consulting for Microsoft? Feb 04 03:19
oob why would anyone do what they did for free? Feb 04 03:20
oob better question – how much would it cost to purchase jeff waugh’s integrity? Feb 04 03:20
oob my guess is very, very little Feb 04 03:21
schestowitz How would they be paid to promote the Microsoft party line, if at all though? Feb 04 03:21
schestowitz know about Redmok selling out Feb 04 03:22
schestowitz *Redmonk Feb 04 03:22
oob they own a consultancy practice. i imagine that business’s accounts would make interesting reading Feb 04 03:23
oiaohm I always like one of the questions I heard in one interview Feb 04 03:23
oiaohm to balmer Feb 04 03:23
oiaohm How much would it cost to buy you to push open source. Feb 04 03:23
oob oiaohm, what was the response? Feb 04 03:24
oiaohm No answer Feb 04 03:25
oiaohm Interview ended. Feb 04 03:25
schestowitz No talking points? Feb 04 03:26
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/… Feb 04 03:27
schestowitz gn Feb 04 03:29
oiaohm schestowitz: look at that linux-haters blog someone put up a joke. Feb 04 03:29
oiaohm Wonder if we could get a stack of people google it and visit is so making it the top google search. Feb 04 03:29
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tessier__ schestowitz: I never personally met Hans Reiser. Only dealt with him briefly via email. Feb 04 04:53
tessier__ But yes, I think he did have issues even before Linux. Feb 04 04:53
balzac lart Feb 04 04:53
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jose__ schestowitz, I think the last draft sent at this time is good to go. [It ends with link xxxxx....0013 ] Thanks. Feb 04 05:18
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jose__ You can just say that this is the first part of possibly 3 parts. Feb 04 05:19
jose__ The rest is explained at the end of part 1. Feb 04 05:19
jose__ so there is no need to repeat it in your introduction.. if you introduce it. Feb 04 05:20
jose__ ie, there is no need to add the synopsis i wrote in that earlier draft even though it’s still accurate. Feb 04 05:20
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schestowitz Morning Feb 04 09:05
PetoKraus morning Feb 04 09:33
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MinceR geekings Feb 04 09:37
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oob good evening Feb 04 10:06
schestowitz Hey Feb 04 10:07
schestowitz Just got a new comment on the Waugh article Feb 04 10:07
schestowitz Interest one. Have a look. Feb 04 10:07
oob i wrote it Feb 04 10:08
schestowitz Ah, OK Feb 04 10:09
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oiaohm Hmm everyone asleep? Feb 04 12:28
oob hello oiaohm, nice to see you Feb 04 12:29
schestowitz Hey, wb Feb 04 12:29
oiaohm Ok just nothing of interest. Feb 04 12:30
oiaohm Embrace and Extend MS model.    KDE appears to be copying it. Feb 04 12:31
oob how so? Feb 04 12:31
oiaohm Embrace MS and Mac and extend them. Feb 04 12:32
MinceR please start making sense Feb 04 12:33
oob link? Feb 04 12:33
oiaohm Goal of KDE 4.x line is to run everywhere. Feb 04 12:34
oob how is that embrace and extend? Feb 04 12:35
oiaohm If it simple to build applications for KDE cross platform than what its is for windows you have embranced windows and effectively slowly take its applications to the new extented api. Feb 04 12:36
oiaohm KDE 4.2 almost can replace the complete windows desktop interface. Feb 04 12:38
oob sounds like wishful thinking to me. surely ms has an inherent and unassailable advantage through control of their platform? Feb 04 12:38
oiaohm The thing here MS really does not. Feb 04 12:39
oiaohm KDE sits on QT.   You kill QT you kill Photoshop. Feb 04 12:39
schestowitz oiaohm: embrace and extend is when Microsoft does it Feb 04 12:39
schestowitz Firefox is embrace and extend?? Feb 04 12:40
oiaohm Firefox is not altering the API that programmers use. Feb 04 12:40
oiaohm KDE is a huge API set for application development in its own right. Feb 04 12:41
oiaohm Its almost larger than the MS default API in Windows. Feb 04 12:41
oiaohm At some point the Open Source world had to try to take the thrid party application developers away from Microsoft. Feb 04 12:44
oob agreed Feb 04 12:44
MinceR oiaohm: explain the “extinguish” part now Feb 04 12:45
MinceR protip: FLOSS can’t do it Feb 04 12:45
oiaohm Extinguish FLOSS can do.  Look at the Unix world and you will see how. Feb 04 12:46
oiaohm Extinguish is quite simplely devaluing the closed source product. Feb 04 12:46
MinceR yet most FLOSS sw still can run on unix Feb 04 12:46
MinceR this quite simply has nothing to do with EEE Feb 04 12:47
oob back up – how is unix devalued? Feb 04 12:47
oiaohm KDE on Windows does open up a direct threat against Outlook exchanage combination for business. Feb 04 12:47
oiaohm Linux could do what Unix could without the cost. Feb 04 12:47
MinceR an important portion of EEE is that you _change_ the standards to an obscure form others can’t stay compatible with Feb 04 12:48
oiaohm So for a lot of tasks price could be demarded for Unix disappeared. Feb 04 12:48
MinceR how do you obscure the formats/protocols of FLOSS? Feb 04 12:48
oob oiaohm, that’s an oversimplification Feb 04 12:48
oiaohm Unix holds on where it still has advantages. Feb 04 12:48
oiaohm Areas where its advantages have not been devalued. Feb 04 12:49
oob MinceR makes a good point, particularly as abi/api stability as heeb a tradional f/oss issue Feb 04 12:49
MinceR traditional floss issue, except it happens to non-floss too? Feb 04 12:49
MinceR see dll hell. Feb 04 12:49
oob linux’s advantages over unix appear to me to be mindshare, licencing and x86, Feb 04 12:50
oiaohm There are solutions to dll hell. Feb 04 12:50
MinceR one of them is upgrading to linux. Feb 04 12:51
oiaohm Linux has dependancy hell in lots of distributions. Feb 04 12:51
oob proprietary systems have tended to have more stable apis/abis, hence their backwards compatability. f/oss projects are unconstrained in this by paying customers Feb 04 12:51
oiaohm That is kinda worse. Feb 04 12:51
MinceR unix is dying because nobody wants to reinvent the wheel when they can cooperate with others instead. Feb 04 12:51
oiaohm Depends on the Foss project. Feb 04 12:51
MinceR unix is much more expensive to maintain than linux Feb 04 12:51
oob i disagree Feb 04 12:52
MinceR (on the developer side) Feb 04 12:52
oiaohm Incorrect solarias has always had better configruation tools for a lot of things. Feb 04 12:52
MinceR 135604 < oob> proprietary systems have tended to have more stable apis/abis, hence their backwards compatability. f/oss projects are unconstrained Feb 04 12:52
MinceR               in this by paying customers Feb 04 12:52
oiaohm Reason why its still holding on. Feb 04 12:52
MinceR do red hat and canonical ring a bell? Feb 04 12:52
oob having had quite a long career doing both, from the sys maintenance side Feb 04 12:52
MinceR or dozens other companies who develop FLOSS and have paying customers? Feb 04 12:52
MinceR oiaohm: 135640 < MinceR> (on the developer side) Feb 04 12:52
oiaohm Same on the developer side as well.  Dtrace so you found problems quicky on solarias Feb 04 12:53
oob MinceR, distributions have a vested interest in api/abi stability, projects have less of an interest. do you appreciate the distinction? Feb 04 12:53
oiaohm Yes it was faster in some cases to rebuild the program giving you trouble in Linux on solarias and debug it there. Feb 04 12:53
MinceR oiaohm: never mind having to develop the same feature for all unixes separately Feb 04 12:53
MinceR oob: distros patch projects when needed Feb 04 12:54
oiaohm Linux pased a lot of the Unixs. Feb 04 12:54
MinceR often they contribute to them too Feb 04 12:54
oiaohm Solarias is the last one standing. Feb 04 12:54
MinceR oiaohm: what about developing kernel components? Feb 04 12:54
oob mincer – patching is not necessarily breaking api/abi compatibility. Feb 04 12:54
MinceR oob: it might fix compatibility issues though. Feb 04 12:55
oiaohm Simpler in solarias until recently due to a stable ABI in kernel space and better debuging tools. Feb 04 12:55
MinceR for example, backporting features to an older version. Feb 04 12:55
MinceR (so you can use the older version and get the new features/bugfixes) Feb 04 12:55
oiaohm Basically Linux lost on most fronts against solarias Feb 04 12:55
MinceR lol Feb 04 12:55
oob true, that helps to smooth things out Feb 04 12:55
MinceR yes, we can see the whole world using solaris now Feb 04 12:55
oob but consider – will kde 3.5 applications run on a user’s desktop if that user has just installed kde 4.2? Feb 04 12:56
oiaohm Solarias has lost in some places as well. Feb 04 12:56
MinceR sun isn’t afraid of linux at all, no sir! Feb 04 12:56
MinceR oob: they probably will Feb 04 12:56
oob and contrast that with a user who installs windows xp and tries to execute a windows 2000 application. Feb 04 12:56
oiaohm Linux can scale to larger systems than Solarais Feb 04 12:56
MinceR oob: even if installing kde 3.5 apps brings in kde3 libraries Feb 04 12:56
oob maybe so, but my bet would be that the windows user has a better chance of success Feb 04 12:56
MinceR oob: compare it to running a winxp app on vista Feb 04 12:56
MinceR guess what, they break Feb 04 12:57
oiaohm Linux only started beating Solarais when it started matching solarias or beating solarias in areas. Feb 04 12:57
oob really? that’s interesting Feb 04 12:57
MinceR but you won’t get winxp components on vista to help run those apps Feb 04 12:57
oiaohm Problem is by the end of 2010 Solarias might not have a unque feature better than Linux any more. Feb 04 12:57
oiaohm If anything it will behind on every front. Feb 04 12:57
oiaohm So defeated. Feb 04 12:58
oob oiaohm, i can think of very few technical advantages linux enjoys over solaris. i think the success there is more attributable to the prevalance of x86 tin over sparc and cost Feb 04 12:58
schestowitz And cost Feb 04 12:58
oiaohm Linux kernel 4000+ processor support in a single system. Feb 04 12:58
schestowitz Oops. You said that already Feb 04 12:58
oiaohm Solarias does not have that. Feb 04 12:58
MinceR oiaohm: it’s defeated because only sun can/will improve it Feb 04 12:58
oob :-) Feb 04 12:58
MinceR which is exactly what i was talking about Feb 04 12:58
oiaohm Not really. Feb 04 12:58
schestowitz MinceR: but there is ‘open’ solaris Feb 04 12:59
oiaohm Solaris does not have the suppers to design that large any more. Feb 04 12:59
schestowitz Roll up your sleeves and help Sun :-) Feb 04 12:59
oob too little too late there i reckon schestowitz Feb 04 12:59
MinceR which is still owned by sun and about which nobody else cares Feb 04 12:59
schestowitz Write some patches for them to defeat GNU Feb 04 12:59
oiaohm Also Solaris need real time alterations to catch up. Feb 04 12:59
MinceR and afaik it differs from solaris in a lot of things Feb 04 12:59
oiaohm Real time altertations to Linux kernel doubled to quaded the threw put of super computers running Linux. Feb 04 12:59
MinceR schestowitz: i’d rather see sun die — they’ve shown no intent to cooperate Feb 04 12:59
oob whoa Feb 04 13:00
oob that’s a bit rough Feb 04 13:00
schestowitz We need Sun Feb 04 13:00
MinceR well, check out the zfs/cddl issue then Feb 04 13:00
schestowitz Java, OOo… Feb 04 13:00
oiaohm Before the alterations Linux suppers were beating sun. Feb 04 13:00
MinceR java sucks, ooo sucks Feb 04 13:00
oob what about nfs? nis+? java? tcl/tk? openoffice? ldap? Feb 04 13:00
schestowitz MinceR: we get btrfs (better fs than zfs Feb 04 13:00
schestowitz It’ll get better over time Feb 04 13:00
MinceR schestowitz: through no virtue of sun Feb 04 13:00
MinceR i’ve never used nfs and nis Feb 04 13:01
MinceR and i abhor tcl/tk Feb 04 13:01
oob okay well, once upon a time a very long time ago, nfs/nis was very important to a lot of people Feb 04 13:01
oiaohm tk was one of the first toolkits Feb 04 13:01
oiaohm So being bad is kinda to be expected. Feb 04 13:01
oiaohm Biggest advnatage solarias had over Linux is its containers. Feb 04 13:02
oiaohm Linux is catching up on them verry quicky. Feb 04 13:02
MinceR the language is ugly, too Feb 04 13:03
oiaohm TCL yes that is also old. Feb 04 13:03
MinceR oob: well, those times have passed Feb 04 13:03
oiaohm It is a little nicer than Bash. Feb 04 13:03
MinceR lol Feb 04 13:03
oob MinceR, as a matter of fact they haven’t, nfs is still extremely prevalent Feb 04 13:03
oob though i’ll grant you, nis has died Feb 04 13:04
MinceR “once upon a time a very long time ago” Feb 04 13:04
*oob sighs Feb 04 13:04
oob once upon a time a very long time ago, the _combination_ of nfs and nis.. Feb 04 13:04
MinceR well, that combination is dead now :> Feb 04 13:04
oob indeed, superseded by ldap Feb 04 13:05
oiaohm ldap for some reason keeps on going. Feb 04 13:05
oiaohm And going and going. Feb 04 13:05
oob what would you suggest we use as a replacement? Feb 04 13:05
oiaohm Really ldap will not be replaced because I don’t think anyone can design a replacement.  But it will get extented again.  This time by open source. Feb 04 13:07
MinceR do you suggest we celebrate sun as the champion of FLOSS for something they did ages ago, despite what they’re doing now? Feb 04 13:07
MinceR i’m sure that would make sun very happy Feb 04 13:07
oiaohm Sun is no longer a computer super power. Feb 04 13:08
MinceR which is fortunate Feb 04 13:08
oob i’m saying that we should acknowledge sun’s longstanding contributions to and involvement with f/oss, balanced by the knowledge that they are a commercial enterprise whose better days are now gone Feb 04 13:08
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oiaohm Really not.  Sun was one of the first to be fullly open about there hardware specs. Feb 04 13:08
MinceR it’s all ancient history now Feb 04 13:09
oiaohm That has never changed. Feb 04 13:09
MinceR their hostility to linux isn’t. Feb 04 13:09
oiaohm Hostility to Linux is understandable.  Remember sun at one point controled 45 percent of the super market. Feb 04 13:09
oiaohm They now hold less than 5. Feb 04 13:09
oiaohm Cause Linux. Feb 04 13:10
oiaohm You are talking about billions of dollars of income cut off there bottom line. Feb 04 13:10
oob *bsd is hostile towards linux, and to gnu in general, yet their contribution is still valuable. let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water, it’s a good thing that there is choice at the platform layer just as their is at other layers Feb 04 13:10
MinceR it’s understandable, but not compatible with their trying to parade as teh great FLOSS champions Feb 04 13:11
oiaohm Linux does need competition. Feb 04 13:11
MinceR *bsd fanboys are hostile because nobody cares about them because they’re averse to innovation Feb 04 13:11
oiaohm Not like MS stands a chance in the super market any time soon. Feb 04 13:11
oob mincer – they’re very keen on api/abi stability :) Feb 04 13:12
MinceR i’d rather see hurd compete with linux Feb 04 13:12
MinceR oob: i’m sure using an outdated init/rc system has a lot to do with that Feb 04 13:12
oiaohm Hostity between competing projects is kinda normal. Feb 04 13:12
oiaohm Remember the old hostity between KDE and Gnome. Feb 04 13:12
MinceR oiaohm: nope, you can compete without being hostile Feb 04 13:12
MinceR i only remember the flame wars between fanboys. Feb 04 13:13
oob bsd is a superb platform, it out-performs linux on a variety of workloads. it’s code stacks up well too, it’s a lot tighter and cleaner than the linux kernel and gnu stuff Feb 04 13:13
oiaohm in 1995 it was at the developer level MinceR Feb 04 13:13
oiaohm Over time it cooled off. Feb 04 13:13
MinceR linux outperforms bsd in many cases Feb 04 13:13
oiaohm As they saw it was more helpful to work with each other. Feb 04 13:13
oob oiaohm, are you speaking of the ximian propaganda back in the day? Feb 04 13:14
MinceR and “tighter and cleaner” is handwaving. Feb 04 13:14
MinceR gnu tools have more functionality than bsd tools do. Feb 04 13:14
oiaohm I am talking about the time I tried to get KDE and Gnome developers to sit down and develop a common menu format. Feb 04 13:14
oiaohm Yes not fun. Feb 04 13:14
oiaohm 1 and a half years of bickering. Feb 04 13:15
oob mincer – i reckon you should run bsd for a while. you might like it. i suggest you try it as a desktop, or file/web server, or firewall Feb 04 13:15
oiaohm Most of the time putting out flames on both sides. Feb 04 13:15
oob i also recommend that you have a look at the code. the fact that sun and bsd can both trace their ancestory to the original at&t codebase and has been largely maintained by professional developers, shows. Feb 04 13:15
oiaohm Hopefully over time solarias and Linux will become friendly with each other. Feb 04 13:15
MinceR i’ve already tried to admin a freebsd chroot Feb 04 13:15
MinceR it was not fun Feb 04 13:15
MinceR with its random deviations from the way things are usually done, none of which were documented anywhere Feb 04 13:16
oiaohm Freebsd lot of performance advantages are going by by. Feb 04 13:16
MinceR i eventually gave up trying to install mysql into it and just used one on a debian box. Feb 04 13:16
oiaohm turns out most of Linux trouble comes from spinlocks in the wrong places. Feb 04 13:16
oiaohm To be correct there is almost no such thing as a correct spinlock. Feb 04 13:16
oiaohm Most cases you should be using ques instead of spinlocks so you don’t tie up cpu time. Feb 04 13:17
oiaohm Even freebsd could go a lot faster if they started spinlock removeal. Feb 04 13:17
MinceR http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/ Feb 04 13:17
MinceR “Linux 2.6 scales O(1) in all benchmarks.” Feb 04 13:18
oiaohm 2.6.29 is faster than 2.6.0 used in that benchmark. Feb 04 13:20
oiaohm And there are still more speed issues to be removed. Feb 04 13:20
oob okay, i know from my own experience that bsd is superior under real-world workloads. i wouldn’t use anything but bsd for a web or file server Feb 04 13:23
schestowitz oob: ” professional developers”? Free work is not professional? Feb 04 13:23
MinceR so from your feelings in a few isolated cases, you proclaim bsd superior Feb 04 13:24
MinceR how typical Feb 04 13:24
oob schestowitz, a lot of the code in the linux kernel is pretty shoddy, in comparison with that in other members of the unix family. Feb 04 13:24
MinceR and the handwaving about ancestry Feb 04 13:24
MinceR see, this is why i don’t argue with *bsd fanboys Feb 04 13:24
oob ha Feb 04 13:25
oiaohm oob look are what is going on with 2.6.29 Feb 04 13:25
oob now i’m a bsd fanboi? you sir, are a dick. Feb 04 13:25
schestowitz oob: AT&T/Bell can program better than IBM/HP/Intel/Oracle/RHT? Feb 04 13:25
MinceR no, sir, YOU are a dick. Feb 04 13:25
oiaohm Lot of the Linux code base is cleaning. Feb 04 13:25
oiaohm That is where they are getting there peformance boosts from at moment. Feb 04 13:25
oob schestowitz, the code is simply better. if you don’t believe me, look for yourself Feb 04 13:26
oiaohm 2.6.29 also has a major permissions change.   They all moving into one single struct. Feb 04 13:26
oiaohm BSD guys really need to take note of what was found with the real time guys and network load. Feb 04 13:26
oiaohm Remove spinlocks increase threw put by a insane ammount. Feb 04 13:27
oiaohm Spinlock basically equals cpu wasting valueable processing time waiting for access to something to come up. Feb 04 13:27
oiaohm On larger scay things that can bey like 200 to 800+ percent waste. Feb 04 13:29
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oiaohm_ Hmm connection broke Feb 04 13:33
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oiaohm_ Please do say I Killed the argument. Feb 04 13:39
schestowitz No. Feb 04 13:59
schestowitz I was just busy myself writing about patents (big post) Feb 04 13:59
oiaohm_ http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&20…  << For once he found something great Feb 04 14:08
oiaohm_ A real old document on patents. Feb 04 14:09
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amarsh04 schestowitz, just caught up as I’d worked 12 hours each Mon and Tues and house hasn’t cooled down yet Feb 04 14:13
schestowitz Did you read what I pinged you about? Feb 04 14:14
amarsh04 http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/20… – morgue full Feb 04 14:14
amarsh04 yes, thanks Feb 04 14:14
amarsh04 was exchanging emails with Pia Waugh today about OLPC stuff Feb 04 14:14
schestowitz Cool. Feb 04 14:15
schestowitz “SA’s main morgue at the Forensic Science Office is holding 71 bodies, just one below capacity.” Feb 04 14:15
schestowitz “Mr Atkinson says the main morgue is almost full because of a number of possible heat-related deaths and because relatives of the deceased are delaying funerals until the heatwave is over.” Feb 04 14:15
schestowitz It was similar in France about 3 years ago Feb 04 14:16
amarsh04 what I can state publicly was that she was involved in OLPC Australia but something that I still don’t know about happened and now she is involved in another group called OLPC friends Feb 04 14:16
amarsh04 I remember that Feb 04 14:16
amarsh04 OLPC Australia had a G1G1 scheme for Australians but it wasn’t publicised and very few people actually ordered a machine that way Feb 04 14:17
schestowitz Yes, no surprise Feb 04 14:17
amarsh04 I told Pia Waugh that I didn’t feel that the .au G1G1 scheme had enough community involvement to work Feb 04 14:18
oiaohm_ Catch you around all. Feb 04 14:18
schestowitz OLPC was left with fewer means when it got sued, maybe at the behest of Intelsoft Feb 04 14:18
amarsh04 one Adelaide person officially worked on OLPC Feb 04 14:18
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schestowitz http://www.olpcnews.com/use_cases/community/… Feb 04 14:18
amarsh04 there was too much trust betrayed. If you look at the openmoko project and opengraphics project, trust is built up slowly and constantly worked on Feb 04 14:18
schestowitz Yes, tessier_ knows that about OpenMoko Feb 04 14:20
amarsh04 I’ve emailed Joel Stanley, the Adelaide OLPC person a couple of times, seems like a good person Feb 04 14:20
amarsh04 I’ve still been working hard on what is happening with the “Integrated Public Number Database” (IPND), the collection of addresses and telephone numbers sent when someone calls 000 for an ambulance fire dept or polic Feb 04 14:22
amarsh04 s/polic/police/ Feb 04 14:22
amarsh04 finally spoke to Telstra’s acting chief privacy officer on the phone today after one of the lackeys in Telstra’s privacy section hung up on me Feb 04 14:23
*Omar87 (n=omar@86.108.20.59) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 04 14:23
Omar87 Hi schestowitz Feb 04 14:23
Omar87 You might wanna take a look at this: http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/02/03/simpl… Feb 04 14:24
MinceR http://everything2.com/?node=… Feb 04 14:26
amarsh04 I wrote to our Communications Minister saying that I couldn’t find a copy of Telstra’s Carrier (Telephone company) licence on the Communications Department’s web site. His lackey refered me back to the communications regulator, whom I’d asked the same question of 2 weeks ago and haven’t heard back yet Feb 04 14:27
schestowitz amarsh04: Telstra seems evil based on what I read. Feb 04 14:28
amarsh04 I’m going to call telstra in the morning and say if they can’t show me their carrier licence, why should I believe that they’re a licenced telco Feb 04 14:28
schestowitz Hey, Omar87 Feb 04 14:28
amarsh04 Trujillo and his amigos deservedly cop a lot Feb 04 14:28
amarsh04 the last pre-privatisation boss, Mel Ward was a technical able fellow who wanted to build a modern network that did what people wanted Feb 04 14:29
schestowitz Omar87: I wrote about it a few hours ago Feb 04 14:29
schestowitz Microsoft shoots itself in the foot for profit and for prohibition of competition on the low end Feb 04 14:29
amarsh04 my ISP has full debian, kernel.org and soureforge.net mirrors (-: Feb 04 14:30
amarsh04 glad to hear that the boycottnovell.com database is back up and running btw Feb 04 14:30
amarsh04 one datacentre company has had their website disappear after they had a major outage after main and backup power failed Feb 04 14:32
amarsh04 the company will probably lose customers and make out-of-court settlements in exchange for shutting up disgruntled customers Feb 04 14:32
amarsh04 best site for ISP/telco information in .au is www.whirlpool.net.au – text only too Feb 04 14:33
schestowitz amarsh04: we have backups in many places Feb 04 14:33
schestowitz It’s important to just keep them as up to date as possible Feb 04 14:33
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amarsh04 back soon Feb 04 14:43
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Omar87 schestowitz: Can you give me a link to the article you wrote about it? Feb 04 14:46
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-175-21.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 04 14:47
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… Feb 04 14:50
schestowitz Microsoft does EDGI in Jordan as well: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/16/… Feb 04 14:51
amarsh04 wedgi? Feb 04 14:51
amarsh04 I mentioned to someone at work “In a world without walls or fences, who needs windows and gates?” and they  thought it was quite clever Feb 04 14:52
schestowitz Yes, wedgi too Feb 04 14:53
schestowitz I think it’s an older acronym Feb 04 14:53
schestowitz Let me recheck Feb 04 14:53
schestowitz Here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/… Feb 04 14:53
schestowitz “We had a presentation on Edgi (aka Wedgi) at MGB, but this document actually takes you through what it entails. Feb 04 14:53
schestowitz Brian had mentioned a school district that this might be an excellent candidate for — are there others? Let’s make Feb 04 14:53
schestowitz sure we use this new tool in our tool box if we can make it make sense” Feb 04 14:53
schestowitz They actually call it wedgi… like pulling a wedgi on Linux. Feb 04 14:54
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schestowitz They have another variation in names. Feb 04 14:54
*Casperin (n=Casperin@x1-6-00-1e-2a-29-69-de.k112.webspeed.dk) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 04 14:57
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