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02.13.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 12th, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:02 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitz And cheap journalism takes over Feb 12 00:00
schestowitz No investigation Feb 12 00:00
twitter ? Feb 12 00:00
schestowitz Many publication hire cheap labour to edit and republish press releases. Feb 12 00:00
twitter You are getting all sorts of page views by doing good investigation.  That should translate into ad money. Feb 12 00:00
schestowitz Well, that’s conventional. What’s the question mark referring to? Feb 12 00:00
schestowitz Reporters themselves say this. They don’t get rewarded for good pieces Feb 12 00:01
schestowitz No ad money Feb 12 00:01
schestowitz Shane puts the ads which pay like $50/month. Hosting is cheaper Feb 12 00:01
twitter I know someone setting up a rack.  He thinks you can get plenty of ad money from the kind of traffic you see.  Millions of page views should translate into thousands of dollars. Feb 12 00:02
schestowitz Tories admit to Wiki-alteration < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politic… > Feb 12 00:02
schestowitz this is not about money though Feb 12 00:02
twitter 1E6 views at 0.01per view is $10,000. Feb 12 00:03
schestowitz People who are BN audience don’t click ads Feb 12 00:04
schestowitz Most don’t even see them Feb 12 00:04
twitter I don’t know how it works.  I just know that people I’ve talk to think there’s more money in it than you are seeing. Feb 12 00:05
twitter You might not be doing this for money but there would be nothing wrong with you getting paid for your work. Feb 12 00:06
schestowitz Shane has already put ads in there. Few people see them, fewer click them and I never saw any of the money (I don’t care either) Feb 12 00:07
twitter Whatever.  You have server problems, someone I’m talking to thinks he’s got a better server and money.  Sounds like a win win to me, especially when Shane took his name off the page. Feb 12 00:09
schestowitz Promises are cheap Feb 12 00:11
twitter true. Feb 12 00:12
twitter I’m not in a position to verify but I do trust the person I’ve been talking to. Feb 12 00:14
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schestowitz They can say this to entice clients Feb 12 00:15
twitter I wrote him to see what he has to say.  I talked to him about this before you had server trouble.  I’ll see what he has to say now and get you two together if he thinks he can do it.  You two can work out the details. Feb 12 00:15
schestowitz Microsoft does this too.. search bribery, AdCenter or whatever they called it.. they promise something in exchange for lockin Feb 12 00:16
twitter This guy is local and a free software advocate rising though small business of his own. Feb 12 00:16
schestowitz Miguel is fighting us in the comments here *sigh* http://ostatic.com/blog/novell-delivers-moonli… Feb 12 00:19
twitter *looking Feb 12 00:19
schestowitz They can’t let people link to us without throwing some slime or arm-twisting editors Feb 12 00:19
schestowitz I needed to comment to counter Miguel… Feb 12 00:21
schestowitz Linux spreads, but will Google go properly Free software? Android moving on to mobile Internet tablets, media players < http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/20… > Feb 12 00:26
twitter Are you sure it’s Miguel?  There are a lot of fake Miguels out there. Feb 12 00:27
twitter wmv and wma are not benefits of moonlight – these are already done well by free software. Feb 12 00:28
schestowitz twitter: yes, it’s him Feb 12 00:29
schestowitz Based on what he says Feb 12 00:29
twitter strangely, I’ve had a lot of problems with codecs using totem lately.  It has it’s own goofy codec download. Feb 12 00:29
schestowitz I use Kaffeine Feb 12 00:29
schestowitz It comes with loads of codecs when I fetch it here. Feb 12 00:30
twitter I’m still reading.  Will run into Miguel stuff soon but insults don’t seem like him. Feb 12 00:30
schestowitz So while Totem won’t do mp3, for example, on this box, amarok and kaffeine handle it all nicely Feb 12 00:30
twitter VLC and KDE players are working much better than gnome stuff. Feb 12 00:30
schestowitz mplayer is another such monster Feb 12 00:30
twitter kmplayer works nicely too. Feb 12 00:30
schestowitz It’s no insult really. Feb 12 00:31
schestowitz They dicredit the messenger by claiming it to be false. Feb 12 00:31
schestowitz This led to me being super careful with fact and nobody has complained for months about serious factual mistakes Feb 12 00:31
schestowitz Different in opinion != mistale Feb 12 00:32
twitter He called you a liar.  That’s an insult. Feb 12 00:33
twitter It’s also silly, if you quoted Novell correctly.  Their opinion is obvious from their statement, regardless of what others might say. Feb 12 00:34
twitter Live CD distribution is the least of concerns anyway.  You have quoted other Novell executives saying no one but Novell can have moonlight. Feb 12 00:34
schestowitz No exactly. Feb 12 00:36
schestowitz They need to obtain it via Novell Feb 12 00:36
jose schestowitz, are the comments moderated? Feb 12 00:36
schestowitz Bruce Lowry said so Feb 12 00:36
jose I thought i posted but it’s not there Feb 12 00:36
jose http://ostatic.com/blog/novell-delivers-moo… Feb 12 00:36
schestowitz jose:  in BN or oaststic? Feb 12 00:36
jose oas Feb 12 00:36
schestowitz Oh Feb 12 00:37
schestowitz Sometimes it goes into filtering Feb 12 00:37
jose ok, it’s there now Feb 12 00:37
schestowitz They have a very sensitive filter Feb 12 00:37
schestowitz Like 70% of the time I manage to stay clear of it Feb 12 00:37
jose i said “linux rocks” so maybe the filters caught it Feb 12 00:38
schestowitz *LOL* @ “BTW, Meeks, employed by a top Monopolysoft contractor” Feb 12 00:38
schestowitz “Monopolysoft contractor”… methinks of hotels in a game of monopoly Feb 12 00:38
schestowitz Ostatic seems to be run by Mac users…  kind of like “Open” Road (Asay) Feb 12 00:39
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schestowitz Giving console applications a bad name < http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2009/02/11/giv… > Feb 12 00:44
schestowitz OStatic has been kinder recently. Re: mono/light, it covered some other related issues and some days ago Sam linked to us too. Feb 12 00:51
schestowitz Dang. SJVN is being a bit of a tool for Mono…. http://blogs.computerworld.com/silverlight_vi… Feb 12 00:52
schestowitz Tina Gasperson of Linux.com has just landed in Jupitermedia: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/… Feb 12 00:53
schestowitz Qt-KDE arguments resume: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/200… Feb 12 00:59
schestowitz *sigh* why do OSS bloggers even mention the Fortify mouthpiece? Fortify is a Microsoft ally, so it’s worth disregarding. It’s like hearing that the United States calls Chavez a “dictator” (or not secure) because he doesn’t let the American troops colonialise and rob Venezuela of its oil. Feb 12 01:02
schestowitz “I’m staring at my Netbook right now and I only have Google Chrome installed. It’s running Ubuntu, I’m using Google Docs – this is the first computer I’ve owned that Microsoft didn’t make a penny off of me. But I’m a consumer. The conclusion of the chapter is that you can’t compete with free.” http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=12534 Feb 12 01:04
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jose this is from feb 2nd but i hadn’t noticed it http://ostatic.com/blog/novells-ceo-… Feb 12 01:19
schestowitz Yes Feb 12 01:19
schestowitz It was covered in IDG from India Feb 12 01:19
schestowitz Same day something bad happeend, but I can’t recall what Feb 12 01:19
schestowitz Oh Feb 12 01:19
schestowitz It was around the same time/day 100 layoffs were announced at NOVL Feb 12 01:20
schestowitz There’s more coming Feb 12 01:20
jose http://ostatic.com/blog/suns-oss-chief-on-openo… Feb 12 01:20
jose here Sam Dean adds in a little personalized ad for go-ooo Feb 12 01:21
jose go-oo Feb 12 01:21
jose it’s not that bad but wanted to point it out Feb 12 01:21
jose the whole arti is about phipps/oo.o.. Feb 12 01:22
jose and he throws in this: In addition to logical mixing and matching of applications between these suites that you can do, I find it great to have Go-oo on hand as well. Go-oo is a lighter, faster fork of OpenOffice with a number of Microsoft-compatible components not found in OpenOffice. Feb 12 01:22
jose it’s all true, and even related to the main article Feb 12 01:23
jose well, “true” Feb 12 01:23
schestowitz go-monooxml Feb 12 01:23
jose i haven’t tried it nor tested it obviously Feb 12 01:23
jose yup Feb 12 01:23
jose or so i hear Feb 12 01:23
schestowitz :-) Feb 12 01:23
schestowitz it’s ooxml with a monkey in front of it Feb 12 01:24
jose wait there is more Feb 12 01:24
jose “Go-oo improves on OpenOffice in several ways” Feb 12 01:24
jose that comment seemed unnecessary Feb 12 01:24
schestowitz Notice the Moonlight press release Feb 12 01:24
schestowitz it’s part of the Mono project Feb 12 01:24
jose it’s thrown in there almost like a subliminal message Feb 12 01:24
schestowitz The Mono group tried to dissociated Monolight[sic] from Mono.. it didn’t work Feb 12 01:25
jose hidden among oo.o this and that Feb 12 01:25
schestowitz *dissociate Feb 12 01:25
schestowitz “Improves” Haha… Feb 12 01:25
schestowitz Improves to whom?? Feb 12 01:25
schestowitz To Novell? Feb 12 01:25
jose anyway, the other article by SDean could not have been done better by an ad agency Feb 12 01:26
schestowitz I know.. Feb 12 01:27
schestowitz They boost a lot of Novell stuff Feb 12 01:27
schestowitz I’ve read them since the very beginning (RSS) Feb 12 01:28
schestowitz Zonker is there too (Novell employee) Feb 12 01:28
jose … well, if we exclude the BN part Feb 12 01:33
jose i wonder if posting about the lgplv2 arguments wasn’t planned Feb 12 01:33
jose it’s a minor point and miguel was quick with a reply that the issue had already been discussed and solved Feb 12 01:34
jose maybe novell or proxy suggested that bn could be quoted on … lgpl2 controversy… Feb 12 01:35
jose and Sam Dean went for it Feb 12 01:35
jose I just had a chance to read an earlier link about wikipedia and the long German name Feb 12 01:41
jose it was funny Feb 12 01:42
jose it’s becoming difficult to deny wikipedia is influential Feb 12 01:42
jose ref: http://tech.slashdot.org/articl… Feb 12 01:42
schestowitz I love Wikipedia, even if it has some wrinkles Feb 12 01:44
schestowitz Reading Wikipedia is supporting it too. Feb 12 01:44
schestowitz it’s mutual or peer love (to those who contribute). Feb 12 01:44
jose noel from ietf replied to my reply (to his canned reply to my comment) Feb 12 01:46
jose he isn’t a fan of the fsf Feb 12 01:46
schestowitz no, he ain;t Feb 12 01:49
schestowitz I put his remarks in linuxtoday for all to see Feb 12 01:49
schestowitz I also spread it among the ffii and anti-sw pats people Feb 12 01:50
schestowitz mailing lists i’m on Feb 12 01:50
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balzac roy, can I see which article on LinuxToday you’re referring to? Feb 12 02:10
balzac I always like to see a good sting. Feb 12 02:10
schestowitz It’s here: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3… Feb 12 02:11
balzac Help Fight This Patent-Encumbered IETF Standard Feb 12 02:12
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schestowitz balzac: FDDaily gone very quietly. Is it related to FSMan ending sort of? Feb 12 02:19
schestowitz *quit recently Feb 12 02:19
balzac FSDaily? Feb 12 02:19
balzac no, FSM (Free Software Magazine) is not going anywhere. They’ve changed from having issues to not delivering content according to a schedule. Feb 12 02:20
balzac FSDaily is different but related Feb 12 02:20
balzac Tony from FSM has stopped developing his Drupal module and he’s handing it off to another maintainer. Feb 12 02:21
schestowitz I corresponded with him about it last year Feb 12 02:22
balzac Dave of FSDaily is still publishing but I’ve noticed a slight decrease in the number of entries in recent days. Feb 12 02:22
amarsh04 anyone good on hardware – been having lock-ups and found my network card’s bootrom socket pins touching the bare aluminium heatsink Feb 12 02:22
balzac They’re both community sites as well, so the pace depends not just on their respective editors. Feb 12 02:23
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amarsh04 I’ve put some cardboard in between and hope that the lock-ups happen no more Feb 12 02:23
amarsh04 fsm had some good articles (and I *really* liked the bizarre cathedral (-:) Feb 12 02:24
balzac amarsh04: have you checked the log files and the core dump after lock-ups? Feb 12 02:24
balzac yeah, the latest bizarre cathedral is funny Feb 12 02:24
balzac Roy, maybe you can syndicate bizarre cathedral for a bit of humor on BN Feb 12 02:24
amarsh04 nothing shown, balzac. Just a complete lock-up. Keyboard won’t even turn off capslock and numlock lights. Sometimes the screen is on and frozen Feb 12 02:25
balzac I was thinking of putting Mibbit on my site and routing visitors of Disruptech.com here. Not that I get any site visitors… Feb 12 02:25
schestowitz amarsh04: they had a new cartoon today Feb 12 02:26
schestowitz balzac: yes, I intended to post that. Do you mean import an image? Feb 12 02:26
balzac I think I ought to directly syndicate BN postings on Disruptech as well. Feb 12 02:26
schestowitz pls do Feb 12 02:27
jose stayed longer than i thought i would Feb 12 02:27
schestowitz pass the info Feb 12 02:27
jose humor is good Feb 12 02:27
balzac I guess not import the cartoon its self but just the notification when there’s a new one. Feb 12 02:27
jose gn Feb 12 02:27
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schestowitz is there a static url that points to the latest img from bizarre cathedral? Feb 12 02:27
schestowitz It would lighten up pages Feb 12 02:28
balzac maybe so. Feb 12 02:28
schestowitz http://bushweed.blogspot.com/2009/0… Feb 12 02:34
balzac nice cartoon Feb 12 02:37
balzac but the poor guy uses SUSE Feb 12 02:37
balzac I have nothing against SUSE except for that Novell basically controls it. Feb 12 02:38
balzac also, I saw a banner for Opera. Opera is just annoying. Feb 12 02:40
balzac They make a lot of noise like a free software project, but they’re just making another proprietary browser. Who cares about a browser which has such tiny market-share *and* it’s proprietary? Feb 12 02:41
balzac Opera evangelists are always screaming about Firefox. Apples and Oranges. Feb 12 02:42
balzac Opera should be screaming about IE instead. Feb 12 02:42
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schestowitz balzac: yes, he sort of criticised us too Feb 12 02:43
schestowitz Opera should become Free softwrae Feb 12 02:44
schestowitz It’s actually a good browser. Feb 12 02:44
schestowitz hmmmmm… in each blog I get spam of different ‘flavours’ Feb 12 02:45
schestowitz It’s like there are different blogspam gangs. BN gets all the pr0n Feb 12 02:45
balzac well, good browser or not, it’s nothing to me. Feb 12 02:45
schestowitz in schestowitz.com I get huge crapfloods of nonsense. Feb 12 02:45
balzac they should become free software, but even then I’d be pretty tired of them for all the sniping at Firefox. Feb 12 02:47
balzac as if they’re even competing with FF Feb 12 02:47
balzac but, I know Asa of Mozilla likes to talk trash right back, so what can I say? Feb 12 02:48
balzac I’m about to start playing around with cURL so maybe I’ll blog-spam your comments. Feb 12 02:49
balzac don’t you have captchas? Feb 12 02:49
schestowitz Yes, Asa ‘fought’ us Feb 12 02:49
schestowitz Mac fan Feb 12 02:50
balzac us being opera fans? Feb 12 02:50
balzac don’t tell me you use opera? Feb 12 02:51
schestowitz He trashed Linux too Feb 12 02:51
schestowitz I don’t use Opera Feb 12 02:51
balzac I went into #opensolaris and argued in favor of releasing Solaris under GPLv3, back when they were considering it. Feb 12 02:52
balzac I was ready to drop linux like a hot rock Feb 12 02:52
balzac I’ve got my eye on the hurd project which gets GSOC grants Feb 12 02:53
schestowitz Cool. Feb 12 02:55
schestowitz I’d like to see the look on Linus’ face if he was bypassed by GNU Feb 12 02:55
balzac no kidding Feb 12 02:55
schestowitz He would not longer call people “masturbating monkeys” Feb 12 02:56
balzac I guess #opensolaris wasn’t established before they had already released it under CDDL, so the die was cast when I went in to argue about it. Feb 12 02:56
balzac hehe Feb 12 02:56
balzac I remember that comment. who was it in regards to again? Feb 12 02:57
balzac I remember how Linus rampaged in the gnome forum about how crappy gnome was. Now he’s switched from KDE to Gnome. Feb 12 02:58
balzac oh, it was about BSD developers. In that instance, i agreed with Linus. Feb 12 02:58
balzac What’s his name from OpenBSD is such a joker. Feb 12 02:58
balzac Desparately trying to stay relevant Feb 12 02:58
balzac Too bad about their weak license. Feb 12 02:59
schestowitz Yes, Apple can stomp on them Feb 12 03:00
schestowitz Then carving Apple logo and hail King Jobs rather than offer attribution to the real developers Feb 12 03:00
balzac have you seen the cartoons or heard the songs which are released with BSD? Feb 12 03:00
schestowitz I haven’t, no Feb 12 03:00
balzac oh my god Feb 12 03:00
balzac http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#41 Feb 12 03:01
balzac http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html Feb 12 03:02
balzac check out the second one down from the top with the oddessy theme Feb 12 03:03
balzac openbsd is the bitter and jealous among the open source software communities. Feb 12 03:03
balzac the most bitter Feb 12 03:04
balzac I honestly feel sorry for them. Feb 12 03:05
balzac but I wondered if it wouldn’t make sense for M$ to do what Apple has done and draw off the BSD code base for when Windows becomes un-sustainable. Feb 12 03:05
balzac because they’re bitter against the success of the GPL just like OpenBSD. Feb 12 03:06
balzac It could be a perfect match of ideology and desperation. Feb 12 03:06
schestowitz BSDers scare me :-) Feb 12 03:11
balzac He scores a rhetorical point about the language of the four freedoms Feb 12 03:11
balzac but apart from that, GPL software has mopped the floor with BSD-licensed software overall. Feb 12 03:12
balzac PHP went from GPL to a BSD-style license Feb 12 03:12
twitter ha ha, greed killed the elevator star pusher.  http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Musi… Feb 12 03:13
balzac nevertheless, the “copyleft” has become the gold standard because it doesn’t allow some corporation to devour your project and piss all over you. Feb 12 03:13
twitter yeah I don’t understand letting others use your code to oppress people. Feb 12 03:15
balzac also, GNU has a more permissive license as well – the lgpl Feb 12 03:15
balzac I don’t see investing a lot of time in a project with others when a company can hire your friends, but leave you out, and then take the code-tree proprietary. Feb 12 03:16
balzac imagine if you were a project initiator or partner, then a company bought all your friends out and sent you away empty handed? Feb 12 03:17
twitter Why make a gift for abusers? Feb 12 03:17
twitter They could just take the code without the buy out. Feb 12 03:17
balzac sure, but the developers tend to be acquired along with a given project for their familiarity with the code. Feb 12 03:18
schestowitz postgres? Feb 12 03:18
twitter One or two for a year or so are all that’s needed.  It’s not like code owners improve things. Feb 12 03:18
twitter at best they “integrate” it with their existing code before closing it up and losing the key. Feb 12 03:19
balzac i’m not very familiar with the postgres project Feb 12 03:20
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balzac But PHP switching away from GPL-licensing has me inclined to turn my attention towards another language Feb 12 03:22
balzac not a strong inclination, but it just got my attention Feb 12 03:22
tessier You shouldn’t be using PHP anyway. Not unless you enjoy running a remote root server. Feb 12 03:24
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balzac well, my primary web development platform is php-based, as are the lion’s share of GPL-licensed web applications Feb 12 03:25
schestowitz Well, the good ones anyway Feb 12 03:26
balzac The more highly evolved ones, just because PHP has been around longer than Python and Ruby as an Apache module. Feb 12 03:27
balzac But how about Sovix? Feb 12 03:27
balzac that’s AGPL-licensed Feb 12 03:27
balzac sounds interesting Feb 12 03:27
balzac FSF runs on Plone with is python-based Feb 12 03:28
balzac FSF.org Feb 12 03:28
balzac IIRC Feb 12 03:28
balzac Drupal caught fire from being the CMS of KernelTrap.org Feb 12 03:29
balzac I’m thinking about Hunchentoot as a web server Feb 12 03:31
balzac I’ve read so many great things about LISP and I use Emacs every day for web programming. Feb 12 03:31
balzac How about Hunchentoot on the Hurd? Feb 12 03:31
balzac There’s a lot of work to be done on those projects, and that contributes to my sense of urgency for the GNU project to get more adequate and proportional funding. Feb 12 03:32
balzac GNU is so important, but still doesn’t get the red-carpet treatment like the Linux project. Feb 12 03:33
balzac Companies like Google and Redhat deserve to be shaken-down on behalf of GNU and the FSF. Feb 12 03:33
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balzac I hope to see the Hurd become a contender over the next few years. Feb 12 03:35
schestowitz kerneltrap went to sleep a while ago Feb 12 03:36
balzac I wonder why Feb 12 03:36
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schestowitz GNU gets no red carpet because of the philosophy Feb 12 03:36
schestowitz It scares the likes of IBM Feb 12 03:36
balzac Well, Google has no excuse, nor does Redhat. Feb 12 03:37
schestowitz The FSF is there to replace exploitation and displace intellectual monopolies. Feb 12 03:37
balzac they’re not old companies and they owe their very existence to the success of GPL-licensed projects. Feb 12 03:37
balzac I just want to see the Hurd acheive lift-off Feb 12 03:38
tessier balzac: I too am very interested in lisp and emacs. Feb 12 03:38
tessier I use emacs but only for basic stuff. I want to learn it better. The idea of an editor with an integrated language to make it extensible is clearly very powerful Feb 12 03:39
balzac tessier: I keep reading about advances in some of the new programming languages – they’re adding features LISP has always had. Feb 12 03:39
tessier balzac: it’s true. Feb 12 03:40
balzac but I’m actually not literate enough as a programmer or math-geek to know. Feb 12 03:40
tessier The only exception really being perhaps Erlang’s message passing Feb 12 03:40
balzac I need to get deep enough  into programming that I run up against the limitations of a language. Feb 12 03:43
balzac but then again, one lesson I’ve learned after wasting years on proprietary software is this: software which is not intelligently designed can make you feel dumb and helpless. Feb 12 03:43
balzac I should probably go straight into the most advanced language available. Feb 12 03:44
balzac I’ve heard that lisp programmers can get specialized jobs of a higher order. Feb 12 03:47
balzac tessier: the idea of an editor with an integrated language for extensibility is powerful, but the idea of an editor which is not extensible is just dumb. Feb 12 03:49
balzac It’s like a builder who entombs themselves inside the building. Feb 12 03:50
balzac I guess that’s only good for the pharoah. Feb 12 03:51
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schestowitz 4:30, time to sleep Feb 12 04:28
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mib_2v2vy7 goodmorning Feb 12 07:46
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Samad hi ALL Feb 12 09:23
Samad Gd Afternoon Feb 12 09:23
Samad ICan anyone help me on driver programming Feb 12 09:24
amarsh04 not really, I’m not a developer, but are you looking for a mailing list appropriate for a particular kind of driver? Feb 12 09:28
Samad ok thanks Feb 12 09:29
MinceR oh hai Feb 12 09:37
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schestowitz Morning. Feb 12 10:17
MinceR o/ Feb 12 10:17
schestowitz \0/ Feb 12 10:18
schestowitz “A particularly pro-Silverlight article:  Silverlight for Linux hits with Microsoft punch http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/… Clarke is very uneven. This article has too much MS PR in it. I mean, look at this:” Feb 12 10:20
schestowitz “”The media pack also carries valuable legal clout for Linux users. It features codecs that have already been licensed by Microsoft from major media companies and are worth $1m per user. Moonlight users are indemnified against litigation that might arise from their use in Moonlight.” What is that, a joke??” Feb 12 10:21
schestowitz It’s not a joke though, it’s just  typical Gavin, friend of the Vole. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozcl… Feb 12 10:21
oiaohm Some how I don’t think MS is paying 1 million per user. Feb 12 10:32
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schestowitz 1 trillion dollars spent on advertising/marketing in 1992… creating artificial wants.. Feb 12 10:51
oiaohm Game is getting more interesting. Feb 12 11:15
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schestowitz FFII is apparently disagreeing with what FSF did to IETF. Feb 12 11:28
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schestowitz Filmmaker Accuses Facebook Of Censorship < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/02/11/fi… > Feb 12 11:37
oiaohm http://science.slashdot.org/article….  Great we might have a domino effect Feb 12 11:38
schestowitz I was just thinking about this less than a week ago. China also has satellite interception systems and its tests disseminated debris. Feb 12 11:40
oiaohm There are still a lot of old non transmitting sats up there. Feb 12 11:41
schestowitz Junkyard Feb 12 11:41
schestowitz They worry about cleaning up later. There’s no money in cleaning up Feb 12 11:42
oiaohm Ok last operation sat is meant to do is thrust it self into a decaying orbit for distruction. Feb 12 11:44
oiaohm Only one problem some complete screwed up internally before that operation could be done. Feb 12 11:45
*burmas (n=thomas@172-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 12 11:45
oiaohm Really china intercept system is messy. Feb 12 11:45
schestowitz Well, it’s interception. It’s not intended to be clear. Feb 12 11:48
schestowitz *clean. Maybe when we mess up Earth’s orbit we can launch some new ones around the Moon :-) Feb 12 11:49
oiaohm They hit it the wrong way. Feb 12 11:49
oiaohm Ie go over the sat and hit it coming back in. Feb 12 11:49
oiaohm So driving sat and rocket bits into a decaying obit. Feb 12 11:49
schestowitz There’s no reason why it’s wrong for China and not for the US Feb 12 11:50
oiaohm It is China has a booming sat launch business Feb 12 11:50
oiaohm Paid on suscessful lanch. Feb 12 11:50
schestowitz We’re done polluting the Earth’s atmosphere, now we’re polluting the stratosphere. Feb 12 11:50
oiaohm I wonder if a growning halo of rubish is being looked for as a possable sign of life. Feb 12 11:51
schestowitz Google surges in U.S. search engine rankings < http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-101… > Feb 12 11:53
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 12 11:53:36 2009
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 12 11:54:00 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell Feb 12 11:54
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: “Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications” [publicly logged] Feb 12 11:54
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 Feb 12 11:54
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel Feb 12 11:54
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz Feb 12 11:54
schestowitz Oops. Wrong key Feb 12 11:54
oiaohm It happens Feb 12 11:58
oiaohm At least you did not power the server off. Feb 12 11:59
schestowitz http://twitter.com/glynmoody/st… “glynmoody: Welcome, @caostheory (Matthew Aslett): we missed you here.” Feb 12 12:04
schestowitz Lots of FOSS people choose the identi.ca rival. Why??? “Do as I say, not as I do…” Feb 12 12:05
schestowitz What Alabamians and Iranians Have in Common < http://www.gallup.com/poll/11… > Feb 12 12:07
*burmas (n=thomas@172-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be) has left #boycottnovell (“Konversation terminated!”) Feb 12 12:07
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schestowitz Spot the contradiction: http://practical-tech.com/operating-system… and http://practical-tech.com/operating-syste… . One day he likes non-Free codecs, the next day he does not like them (or vice versa) Feb 12 12:11
schestowitz http://practical-tech.com/operating-system/l… “In a time of deepening economic gloom, it’s easy to see how these rumors can gain creditability. Bruce said that Novell’s cuts were “in response to the global economic downturn.”” Feb 12 12:12
schestowitz Still denying it, just like Microsoft did months before it happened (Microsoft lied) Feb 12 12:12
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oiaohm Novell has a nice soft cussion to reduce its job losses. Feb 12 12:15
schestowitz Cuba Launches Own Linux Variant to Counter U.S. http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-… Feb 12 12:15
oiaohm Name Microsoft Feb 12 12:15
*Eruaran (n=jeremy@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 12 12:15
Eruaran hi Roy Feb 12 12:15
schestowitz Hey, what’s up? Feb 12 12:16
Eruaran I have a link here to a blog that is very interesting Feb 12 12:16
Eruaran http://thecrandreagoupr.blogspot.com… Feb 12 12:16
Eruaran The Crandrea Group is a lobby group of Microsoft shareholders Feb 12 12:18
schestowitz I.e. part of the Cult. let me read.. Feb 12 12:18
Eruaran They want Ballmer gone Feb 12 12:18
schestowitz Lobby =  legalised bribery Feb 12 12:18
schestowitz Eruaran: :-) Feb 12 12:19
Eruaran They’re lobbying other shareholders to take action Feb 12 12:19
schestowitz 10 posts only in this blog Feb 12 12:19
Eruaran yes Feb 12 12:19
schestowitz Are they relevant. I think I heard of them before Feb 12 12:19
schestowitz Eruaran: ic… Feb 12 12:19
*schestowitz looks for an article.. Feb 12 12:20
Eruaran First time I’ve heard of them tonight Feb 12 12:20
schestowitz http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Reflectio… Feb 12 12:20
*schestowitz looking for a different one Feb 12 12:20
schestowitz Eruaran: I have about 12 refs on asking Ballmer to go Feb 12 12:20
schestowitz Let me get them for you. Feb 12 12:20
Eruaran k Feb 12 12:20
Eruaran I’ve been saying for a while this was going to happen Feb 12 12:21
schestowitz OK, it’s here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05/0… Feb 12 12:21
schestowitz Scroll down a bit though Feb 12 12:21
schestowitz http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/What_to_ask_at… Feb 12 12:22
schestowitz I can’t quite find the article about the lady who sort of grilled Ballmer as a disappointed investor Feb 12 12:22
schestowitz This whole relationship of sponsoring tyrannies for maximal exploitation if extremely harmful (in general) Feb 12 12:22
schestowitz If you ask yourself, what is the accountability and what are these companies doing, you realise they can be very harmful to society because there is n legal obligation to account for things like human rights, environment, etc. it’s taken to the extreme in the US, I think… Feb 12 12:23
Eruaran “The chances of Windows 7 suddenly winning over Windows XP users in droves are slim to none. Windows 7 is a better Vista but doesn’t deliver enough advantages or differentiation from Windows XP to woo XP users” Feb 12 12:25
oiaohm Notice free upgrade from Vista to Windows 7 Feb 12 12:25
oiaohm Only for OEM users. Feb 12 12:25
oiaohm Nice all those people who aquired upgraded from home to ult Feb 12 12:25
oiaohm Are so screwed. Feb 12 12:26
schestowitz Vista->VIsta7=SP Feb 12 12:26
schestowitz +marketing(perception) Feb 12 12:27
Eruaran “I’ve been using the Windows 7 public beta as my full-time laptop OS and have reached some pretty firm conclusions about Windows 7′s ability to woo XP, Vista, Linux and Mac users over to the new OS.” Feb 12 12:27
schestowitz Source? Feb 12 12:28
schestowitz BTW, BetaVista7 is no more (to downloaders) Feb 12 12:28
Eruaran “OS marketshare will probably continue to decrease” Feb 12 12:28
schestowitz Since yesterday or the day before that Feb 12 12:28
Eruaran This is all from the Crandrea Group blog Feb 12 12:28
oiaohm Windows 7 is a improvement over vista Feb 12 12:28
schestowitz I wonder if some more of primitivism will increase due to the economic slump Feb 12 12:29
oiaohm Still compared to XP its performance still could do with work. Feb 12 12:29
schestowitz ref to “”OS marketshare will probably continue to decrease” Feb 12 12:29
schestowitz IDC has revealed that less PCs are sold Feb 12 12:29
schestowitz They become less of a priority to people. Feb 12 12:29
oiaohm PS I recycle systems. Feb 12 12:29
schestowitz oiaohm: yes,cannibalise sales that is Feb 12 12:29
Eruaran Vista 7 still uses too much in the way of resources Feb 12 12:29
Eruaran It wont win over stalwart XP users Feb 12 12:30
schestowitz Eruaran: there is no Vista7 Feb 12 12:30
schestowitz That’s the thing Feb 12 12:30
schestowitz It’s a beta Feb 12 12:30
schestowitz Vista7 doesn’t exist yet Feb 12 12:30
schestowitz They can do all sorts of things to deceit Feb 12 12:30
Eruaran I’ve been testing the beta Feb 12 12:30
oiaohm Note anything is a improvement over vista Feb 12 12:30
schestowitz Vista7 will make you coffee Feb 12 12:30
schestowitz *deceive Feb 12 12:30
oiaohm Running Debian 5 when its not released yet is a improvment over vista. Feb 12 12:30
schestowitz oiaohm: other OSes evolve too Feb 12 12:31
schestowitz Debian is out in 2 days Feb 12 12:31
oiaohm I have been running Debain 5 for the last 8 months. Feb 12 12:31
Eruaran Windows 7 build 7000 cannot compete with a good distro running KDE 4.2 Feb 12 12:32
Eruaran So, they will push multitouch really hard Feb 12 12:32
schestowitz Some debian devs will go out with the g/fs, others will just fsck their HDDs in preparation for an upgrade Feb 12 12:32
oiaohm KDE 4.2 is not fully cooked yet.  Most likely stick with KDE 3.5 until 4.3 Feb 12 12:32
schestowitz oiaohm: KDE 3.5.x is here to stay until 2010+ Feb 12 12:33
Eruaran Problem is, there is no really solid, useful, practical application of multitouch beyond gimmick and extra expense with multitouch monitors… Feb 12 12:33
schestowitz They have KDE deployed in important places Feb 12 12:33
oiaohm Pitty X.org has not released 1.6.0 yet. Feb 12 12:33
Eruaran I’ve been using Gnome for some months now Feb 12 12:33
oiaohm At least other key merges have happened. Feb 12 12:33
schestowitz Linus ought to have been patient! He tried 4.0 (!!) ferchristsake Feb 12 12:33
oiaohm Multi touch has use in phones Feb 12 12:34
Eruaran KDE 4.x might not be fully cooked, but its looking rather nice in the oven there… the ping of the timer will ring soon Feb 12 12:34
oiaohm KDE 3.x only become good at about 3.4 Feb 12 12:35
oiaohm So if kde 4 becomes good at 4.3 they have beaten the record. Feb 12 12:35
Eruaran oiaohm: yes, one of the reasons for Apples huge success is how it implemented multitouch, in a useful appropriate and fun way Feb 12 12:35
oiaohm Issue here Multi touch is not a unque feature. Feb 12 12:35
schestowitz oiaohm: not true Feb 12 12:35
Eruaran oiaohm: KDE4 will beat that record and in much less time Feb 12 12:35
schestowitz I used 3.1 until 2007 and I loved it Feb 12 12:36
schestowitz There were hardly any bugs, either Feb 12 12:36
oiaohm I stuck with enlightment back then. Feb 12 12:36
Eruaran KDE4 is travelling very quickly Feb 12 12:36
oiaohm Ie 3.1 Feb 12 12:36
oiaohm theming got solidly sorted out in 3.4. Feb 12 12:36
Eruaran I am quite impressed with KDE4′s pace of development Feb 12 12:37
oiaohm KDE 4.2 most of it works on windows. Feb 12 12:37
oiaohm KDE 4.3 or 4.4 cross OS desktop might appear. Feb 12 12:37
Eruaran you can bet your booties Microsoft couldn’t match that, and I think the Gnome community would spend more time talking about what they’re going to do rather than doing it Feb 12 12:37
oiaohm That gives MS another strange competition problem. Feb 12 12:37
oiaohm Its no longer person choose OS. Feb 12 12:38
oiaohm It person choose what they like using.  So hiding what OS they really have. Feb 12 12:38
Eruaran Geos ran on DOS Feb 12 12:38
Eruaran Remember GeoWorks Ensemble ? Feb 12 12:38
oiaohm I remember it. Feb 12 12:39
oiaohm Its not like what KDE is doign. Feb 12 12:39
Eruaran true Feb 12 12:39
Eruaran But I thought I’d mention it Feb 12 12:39
oiaohm KDE is creating a platform that has not ties to OS’s. Feb 12 12:39
Eruaran Back in those days we all liked Geos much better than Windows Feb 12 12:39
oiaohm That is a really nasty wrinkle of a problem for MS. Feb 12 12:39
Eruaran but yes, Geos was tied to DOS Feb 12 12:39
Eruaran oiaohm: its the KDE turn-the-tables version of Embrace and Extend Feb 12 12:40
Eruaran Can you imagine the faces at Microsoft when someone realises at Redmond, “WERE being embraced and extended !” Feb 12 12:41
Eruaran I’m not sure how it will pan out, but its subversive enough on Windows to be fun Feb 12 12:42
Eruaran KDE on Windows is second class though Feb 12 12:42
Eruaran You don’t get full functionality Feb 12 12:42
Eruaran If you want all the goodies you have to use Linux Feb 12 12:43
Eruaran ;) Feb 12 12:43
Eruaran Its the reverse of something like Moonlight Feb 12 12:43
Eruaran But once K3B is smooth and stable on KDE/Windows, we will be pre-installing it on our customers Windows systems instead of Nero (and good riddance too). Feb 12 12:45
oiaohm Its kontact I am waiting on particularly. Feb 12 12:46
Eruaran ooh Feb 12 12:47
oiaohm So I can say by by to MS exchange. Feb 12 12:47
Eruaran nice Feb 12 12:47
oiaohm I have quite a few good burning programs for windows that are free. Feb 12 12:47
Eruaran Nero tends to be what always gets pre installed Feb 12 12:47
oiaohm samba with ADS will also be good. Feb 12 12:48
oiaohm Nero comes a lot OEM with burners. Feb 12 12:48
Eruaran The walls of Jerico are crumbling Feb 12 12:48
Eruaran yes, it comes with lite-on and LG too I think Feb 12 12:48
Eruaran But its trialware Feb 12 12:49
Eruaran For us, the phone calls from Windows uses who complain their trialware doesn’t function fully any more are really an annoying time waster… So, K3B, which we love, running on Windows is very attractive. Feb 12 12:50
Eruaran And most Windows users dont even look for something else, they hate Nero, but just keep using it… (maybe they’ve been programmed like that by using Windows)… So, whatever we spoon feed them, they will take it. Feb 12 12:51
Eruaran We will give them K3B. Feb 12 12:52
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, KDE 3.1 had very minor issues with themes. Very minor Feb 12 12:52
Eruaran My gnome desktop has issues Feb 12 12:53
schestowitz oiaohm: Microsoft will hardly permit GUI on top of Windows Feb 12 12:53
schestowitz Unless it’s theirs Feb 12 12:53
schestowitz Wait. I’ll show you using internal correspondence. Feb 12 12:53
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009… Feb 12 12:53
schestowitz I have more. In short, they control how the ‘computer’ is presented. They are very zealous about it. Feb 12 12:54
schestowitz That’s why H-P turned to Linux for its own OS Feb 12 12:54
Eruaran We don’t really care that much about the GUI, KDE as a GUI on Windows is more of a novelty at this stage… but the apps, there’s real firepower there. Feb 12 12:54
Eruaran I think at this stage Microsoft should be more worried about KDE apps appearing on Windows Feb 12 12:55
Eruaran Familiarity with Linux apps will break down barriers Feb 12 12:55
oiaohm More the fact that all users can be on the same interface Feb 12 12:55
oiaohm So business manuals for use of difference machine becomes simpler to write. Feb 12 12:56
Eruaran oiaohm: yes, I can see what you mean Feb 12 12:56
oiaohm its an annoying little theat.  Make a mono culture wihout having a mono culture OS network. Feb 12 12:56
Eruaran M$ will surely try to do something to stop KDE on Windows Feb 12 12:57
oiaohm Most things in kde start lives as noteltys before turning into major threats. Feb 12 12:57
oiaohm Little bit hard. Feb 12 12:57
Eruaran yes Feb 12 12:57
oiaohm KDE uses QT Feb 12 12:57
oiaohm Break QT break Adobe. Feb 12 12:57
oiaohm Welcome to MS house of cards. Feb 12 12:58
Eruaran Microsoft did sniff arount Trolltech (Qt Software) a bit through a deal with Broadcom… but it all went quiet when Qt went GPLv3 Feb 12 12:58
Eruaran And then Nokia came along… Feb 12 12:58
Eruaran And surprisingly, they go lets do LGPL Feb 12 12:59
oiaohm Trolltech enabled the good anti MS defence. Feb 12 12:59
oiaohm MS will not aquire anything under GPLv3 its a threat to there patents Feb 12 12:59
oiaohm Of course nokia don’t give a rats abotu software other than it works to sell there devices. Feb 12 13:00
Eruaran Microsoft could still try and hobble KDE on Windows like they did with DR-DOS Feb 12 13:00
oiaohm DR-Dos is different. Feb 12 13:01
oiaohm DR-Dos was cloning the Dos system. Feb 12 13:01
Eruaran What I mean is they could potentially try a similar strategy Feb 12 13:01
oiaohm KDE is simply building a new system over the top. Feb 12 13:01
oiaohm Little hard to attack that.  KDE can alter its stack to cope with what every MS does. Feb 12 13:01
Eruaran true Feb 12 13:01
oiaohm One problem MS will break a lot of applciations they depend on attempt to attack KDE. Feb 12 13:02
Eruaran But, I would expect Microsoft to try something Feb 12 13:02
oiaohm Ie house of cards. Feb 12 13:02
oiaohm Attack KDE bring own house of cards down. Feb 12 13:02
oiaohm Only chance MS has is to get .net to really take off. Feb 12 13:02
Eruaran I dont’ see that happening Feb 12 13:02
oiaohm For that to happen MS has to bite the big one. Feb 12 13:03
oiaohm and compete the same way KDE is. Feb 12 13:03
Eruaran I think the Windows registry is the first place Microsoft will go to try and hobble KDE Feb 12 13:03
Eruaran They’ll put shite in the registry Feb 12 13:03
oiaohm KDE on windows does not use the Windows registry. Feb 12 13:03
Eruaran oh Feb 12 13:03
Eruaran well… Feb 12 13:03
Eruaran haha Feb 12 13:03
oiaohm Yes KDE developers are not fools. Feb 12 13:04
Eruaran :P Feb 12 13:04
oiaohm Ok overally conventent. Feb 12 13:04
oiaohm But not fools. Feb 12 13:04
MinceR 140627 < oiaohm> DR-Dos was cloning the Dos system. Feb 12 13:05
MinceR …which was cloning the CP/M system Feb 12 13:05
MinceR stealing code from it Feb 12 13:05
MinceR and CP/M was a DR product :> Feb 12 13:05
oiaohm Ye Feb 12 13:05
oiaohm Catch is who controled the int calls MinceR Feb 12 13:05
oiaohm MS so DR-Dos ended up screwed. Feb 12 13:06
Eruaran The Microsoft Malicioius Software Removal Tool Feb 12 13:07
Eruaran It gets forced on people in Windows updates Feb 12 13:07
Eruaran oh Feb 12 13:08
Eruaran Today i watched IE7 take fully something like half an hour to install on a system Feb 12 13:09
Eruaran I was like, “what the hell is it doing ?” Feb 12 13:09
MinceR the mistake was letting it install ;) Feb 12 13:16
Eruaran The mistake is letting Windows install Feb 12 13:16
Eruaran But the customer wants what the customer wants… Feb 12 13:17
schestowitz IE7 is an installation softwarer for Windows Feb 12 13:17
schestowitz You visit a Web site, you come back with new soft/malware Feb 12 13:17
schestowitz It’s also an update mechanism Feb 12 13:18
MinceR :) Feb 12 13:18
*amarsh04 doesn’t like “captcha” on public utility sites that don’t offer any option of becoming a registered user ie http://www.etsautilities.com.au/stree… Feb 12 13:27
*oiaohm_ (n=oiaohm@141.109.dsl.brs.iprimus.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 12 13:33
*oiaohm has quit (Nick collision from services.) Feb 12 13:35
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