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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 13th, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:38 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

twitter M$’s problem is they want their software to wear out and do many things that leave it in a perpetually broken state. Feb 13 00:00
oiaohm http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=new…  Lol title how render a freaking triangle Feb 13 00:00
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oiaohm fake limits is MS normaly way of doing it. Feb 13 00:03
oiaohm Ie ram limits. Feb 13 00:03
oiaohm Like vista and xp after the last server pack no long having a great PAE in 32 bit mode. Feb 13 00:03
twitter You know, I thought a little about the KDE for Windows thing and your idea of gradual migration being best.  You completely overlook how different Vista and Windows 7 are.  Now is a perfect time for people to move to GNU/Linux. Feb 13 00:07
twitter All of their applications are going to be broken by the move from XP and the users will be even more confused by Vista than they are by GNU/Linux. Feb 13 00:08
oiaohm And KDE 4.x works on 7 and Vista Feb 13 00:08
schestowitz “And”? Feb 13 00:08
schestowitz It’s the same thing. Feb 13 00:09
oiaohm Yes its a window but not everyone will be migrated in that window. Feb 13 00:09
twitter That does not matter.  The user is better served by GNU/Linux. Feb 13 00:09
oiaohm Issue is it does matter twitter Feb 13 00:09
twitter What is your issue, that people must have Windows at any cost? Feb 13 00:09
oiaohm You will learn what I know after many failed conversions. Feb 13 00:09
twitter That’s brainwash. Feb 13 00:09
oiaohm You have it wrong. Feb 13 00:10
twitter I’ve never seen a failed conversion. Feb 13 00:10
oiaohm Person cannot afford a sudend change. Feb 13 00:10
oiaohm Lot of people cannot. Feb 13 00:10
oiaohm XP to Vista sudden change problems. Feb 13 00:10
twitter Well Vista gives them that anyway. Feb 13 00:10
oiaohm Same with XP to Linux. Feb 13 00:10
twitter So you might as well liberate them Feb 13 00:10
oiaohm And are people sticking to XP like glue. Feb 13 00:10
oiaohm Yes they are. Feb 13 00:11
schestowitz OT: What kind of SICK society are laywers making??  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123419309890… Feb 13 00:11
oiaohm MS really has not liked that. Feb 13 00:11
oiaohm Same reason why MS failing to convert people to Vista is the same problem you hit converting to Linux. Feb 13 00:11
twitter Sure because most XP apps work under GNU/Linux in one way or another and migration for XP users is less painful than Vista users. Feb 13 00:11
oiaohm MS did too big of change too fast. Feb 13 00:12
oiaohm Its speed of conversion twitter Feb 13 00:12
oiaohm Right speed it happens take the conversion from 98 to XP. Feb 13 00:12
twitter M$ won’t give up DRM, which is Vista’s biggest problem.  Users should move to free software right now, there is no better time. Feb 13 00:12
oiaohm It was fairly smooth. Feb 13 00:12
oiaohm That is what you are aiming for twitter to convert major numbers. Feb 13 00:13
twitter Nothing was smooth about the conversion from 98 to XP. Feb 13 00:13
schestowitz “”They don’t have the right to read a book out loud,” said Paul Aiken, executive director of the Authors Guild. “That’s an audio right, which is derivative under copyright law.”” Feb 13 00:13
twitter I aim for people to have software freedom. Feb 13 00:13
oiaohm It was really. Feb 13 00:13
twitter They won’t get it from XP or Vista. Feb 13 00:13
oiaohm Same here. Feb 13 00:13
twitter XP was slow slow slow. Feb 13 00:13
oiaohm We have the same long term aims. Feb 13 00:13
twitter That’s why M$ drug their heels on Vista Feb 13 00:14
oiaohm 98 to XP for business users almost everything worked out box. Feb 13 00:14
twitter It took them three years or so to get 50% of their user base moved.  Vista has been a complete failure because so many M$ users had just made the move. Feb 13 00:14
oiaohm Remember a person normally users at home what they use at work. Feb 13 00:15
twitter XP did not work out of the box! Feb 13 00:15
oiaohm For gamers no it did not. Feb 13 00:15
oiaohm For business side it did. Feb 13 00:16
twitter It took years for them to get the devices working and they never did security right. Feb 13 00:16
twitter Now they have removed XP drivers from Vista and security is still a mess. Feb 13 00:16
oiaohm does businesses care about devices. Feb 13 00:16
oiaohm They care if the machine runs. Feb 13 00:16
oiaohm Secuirty is even lower down on the list to that. Feb 13 00:16
twitter M$ won’t let users stay with XP – M$ is forcing Vista by device and hardware breakage. Feb 13 00:17
twitter Security is not low on the list when a business suffers weeks of outage due to worms! Feb 13 00:17
twitter It happens frequently. Feb 13 00:17
oiaohm Until it does they don’t worry. Feb 13 00:17
oiaohm Working is the prime goal of business. Feb 13 00:18
oiaohm Migration that risks down time is not something they will do. Feb 13 00:18
twitter The reality for business is that they have to migrate away from XP and GNU/Linux offers most of what they are looking for. Feb 13 00:18
oiaohm Slow migrations are required. Feb 13 00:18
twitter familiar interfaces, stability, security and device compatibility. Feb 13 00:18
oiaohm Ie if all internal documents are converted to openoffice that is not a problem when Linux change happens. Feb 13 00:18
oiaohm Now if that is not done first they will fear it. Feb 13 00:19
oiaohm With very good reason. Feb 13 00:19
twitter they even get to keep more of their apps than Vista will give them. Feb 13 00:19
oiaohm You need to start at the top of stack and work down. Feb 13 00:19
oiaohm Ie Application conversions then OS conversion. Feb 13 00:19
oiaohm All the time reducing there long term costs. Feb 13 00:20
twitter I remember a conversion from Word Perfect to Word.  It was ugly but happened quickly.  A conversion to Open Office would be a lot easier and faster. Feb 13 00:20
oiaohm Yes working to being MS free. Feb 13 00:20
oiaohm Not alway twitter Feb 13 00:20
oiaohm Its documents with custom VBA stuff in it. Feb 13 00:20
oiaohm That can be key to business operations that need to be recoded. Feb 13 00:20
twitter That kind of crap is disposable – written by interns. Feb 13 00:20
oiaohm Its disposable yes. Feb 13 00:21
oiaohm But not having it work when you jump accross is majorly damaging. Feb 13 00:21
oiaohm Can cause them to backlash completely on the Linux conversion. Feb 13 00:21
twitter Big companies give that kind of work to interns to do in a week or two.  OO has more than adequate tools for the job. Feb 13 00:21
twitter There will be no backlash in places like that. Feb 13 00:22
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oiaohm Week or two most likely 2 months. Feb 13 00:22
oiaohm Number one for coding number 2 for testing. Feb 13 00:22
twitter Dude, I’ve done that kind of work myself for a fortune 100 company.  It was trivial and NO ONE CARED. Feb 13 00:22
oiaohm Complete goal is do the conversion without anything failing. Feb 13 00:22
oiaohm I have done it for over 150 companies Feb 13 00:23
oiaohm Some go perfectly no one cares. Feb 13 00:23
oiaohm Some where its critical you are dead meat if it don’t work. Feb 13 00:23
twitter VBA was the lamest of labor savings.  Every staff member knew how to get the work done without it and the crap was constantly broken by the M$ treadmill. Feb 13 00:24
oiaohm Lot of VBA stuff I end up converting to kexi. Feb 13 00:24
oiaohm Most of it is in access databases. Feb 13 00:24
oiaohm That are not very nice to port accross either. Feb 13 00:25
twitter that kind of crap needs to be replaced with a proper database. Feb 13 00:25
twitter maybe a nice web interface Feb 13 00:25
oiaohm Exactly Feb 13 00:25
oiaohm First job is cleaning up the MS crap at application level out the system. Feb 13 00:25
twitter Better to do it with a full GNU/Linux migration than it is to waste time porting KDE to Windows. Feb 13 00:25
oiaohm So when migration happens it not biteing. Feb 13 00:26
oiaohm KDE to Windows also is about the User side. Feb 13 00:26
oiaohm Other big problem you have they jump accorss and don’t know what applications are called. Feb 13 00:26
schestowitz Someone in BN warned me about this guy and he was right! http://lunduke.com/?p=155 Feb 13 00:26
schestowitz lunduke =  mental blacklist Feb 13 00:27
oiaohm Basically anything reducing the barriors to moving is a good thing twitter Feb 13 00:27
schestowitz oiaohm: find out how MS feels about it Feb 13 00:28
schestowitz I see MS bloggers promoting Moonlight today Feb 13 00:28
schestowitz Which means that Mono and Moonlight are indeed harmful to Linux Feb 13 00:28
schestowitz Good for Microsoft = bad for Linux Feb 13 00:28
schestowitz Miguel gets his wage and it’s “above his pay grade” Feb 13 00:28
oiaohm MS is getting desprate. Feb 13 00:29
schestowitz He f*s up the whole FOSS world with Novel’s funding and Microsoft’s help Feb 13 00:29
oiaohm List the locks MS has left in the market that are not under threat. Feb 13 00:29
twitter amazing.  A town gets rid of their spy cams http://yro.slashdot.org/articl… Feb 13 00:29
oiaohm Moonlight is about trying to build a new lock becuase most of there locks have been taken out by the EU. Feb 13 00:30
oiaohm Besides most of the protected codecs in Moonlight are provide by Nvidia in there video accerlation. Feb 13 00:30
oiaohm Nice unstable lock there. Feb 13 00:31
schestowitz Byfield does MS: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/os… Feb 13 00:31
twitter “Microsoft’s repository for open source code”  ha ha. Feb 13 00:33
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twitter the article seems good for basic statistics. Feb 13 00:34
twitter but no one should really care about codeplex Feb 13 00:34
oiaohm http://sourcewell.berlios.de/ca…  Everyone forgets this one. Feb 13 00:35
twitter ” Those paranoid about Microsoft have seen them as proof of their obsessions; only those oriented towards business have entertained the idea that the efforts represented real change.”  It’s not paranoia when they are really out to get you. Feb 13 00:36
twitter How many court documents and emails does Bruce Byfield need to see before he realizes how evil the company is. Feb 13 00:37
twitter There’s nothing well meaning about any M$ action.  It’s always about what’s best for M$, not “business”, the customer or anything else. Feb 13 00:38
oiaohm twitter the problem you had your conversions so far have been the painless ones. Feb 13 00:38
twitter I’ve seen CAD people move. Feb 13 00:38
oiaohm Not the ones that take like year and a half of work to make possiable. Feb 13 00:38
oiaohm Without breaking critical operations. Feb 13 00:39
twitter M$ is breaking those same operations constantly.  Better to move them to free software. Feb 13 00:39
oiaohm Supprising no. Feb 13 00:39
oiaohm setups on windows 2000 was scarely stable. Feb 13 00:39
twitter Not surprising.  Breakage is their business model. Feb 13 00:40
oiaohm Some of the conversions I have done are mixed bag. Feb 13 00:40
oiaohm Some othere network 98 some 2000 some XP. Feb 13 00:40
oiaohm Lot of the 2000′s on critical operations. Feb 13 00:41
twitter dinner time. Feb 13 00:41
oiaohm I have even come accross where 2003 is being used as a workstation for critical opertations. Feb 13 00:41
oiaohm Yes they spent 1000 dollars on a OS for a workstation. Feb 13 00:41
oiaohm Then you have the problem accountance don’t like 1000 dollars worht of expendure put in bin. Feb 13 00:43
schestowitz I see that KDE 4.2 receives praises Feb 13 00:44
schestowitz A person who disliked 4.0 and 4.1 loves 4.2 Feb 13 00:44
oiaohm Its features Feb 13 00:46
oiaohm 3.5 is masively feature rich. Feb 13 00:46
schestowitz Parity? Feb 13 00:46
schestowitz Yes Feb 13 00:46
schestowitz I know.. Feb 13 00:46
schestowitz 3.4 was good too Feb 13 00:46
oiaohm It was kinda a rude shock to users that they are were missing. Feb 13 00:46
schestowitz I skipped 3.2 and 2.3 Feb 13 00:46
schestowitz *3.3 Feb 13 00:46
schestowitz Linus tried just 4.0 Feb 13 00:47
schestowitz Fedora, IIRC Feb 13 00:47
schestowitz He posted a bug report Feb 13 00:47
schestowitz Fedora 10 seems to be doing well too Feb 13 00:47
schestowitz http://server.ericsbinaryworld.com/… Feb 13 00:47
oiaohm Also part of the problem kde 4.x is also design with DRI2 in mind. Feb 13 00:47
schestowitz On KDE4: http://linuxowns.wordpress.com/2… Feb 13 00:47
oiaohm Would be fine if DRI 2 getting mainline is not masively behind time table. Feb 13 00:48
oiaohm Over a year past projected time table Feb 13 00:48
schestowitz KDE4 could waiy Feb 13 00:52
schestowitz No idea why they rushed it Feb 13 00:52
schestowitz 3.5 is spectacular Feb 13 00:53
schestowitz Even without KWin effect it has Compiz Feb 13 00:53
schestowitz How far RMS’ contribs have come.. “This article is under GNU FDL license and can be distributed without any previous authorization from the author. However the author’s name and all the URLs (links) mentioned in the article and biography must be kept.” http://www.msokorea.com/consumer-electroni… Feb 13 00:54
oiaohm Simple problem 3.5 is internally stuffed. Feb 13 00:54
schestowitz The other GNU: GNU a fraud < http://www.thezimbabwean.co.uk/index.php?opti… > Feb 13 00:54
oiaohm They have pushed its internals completely to its limits. Feb 13 00:54
schestowitz GNU in Africa has a very bad name. Very. Feb 13 00:55
oiaohm 4.0 is basically a rewite removing most of the major core issues. Feb 13 00:55
oiaohm Now mistake was droping on the add on features. Feb 13 00:55
schestowitz I see no issues Feb 13 00:55
*schestowitz loves KDE as it is Feb 13 00:55
schestowitz Okay, it would be nice if KDE made koffee too :-0) Feb 13 00:56
oiaohm Theming engine. Feb 13 00:56
oiaohm KDE 3.5 its stuffed. Feb 13 00:56
schestowitz Hard to install more thems Feb 13 00:56
schestowitz *mes Feb 13 00:56
schestowitz But it has many built in Feb 13 00:56
oiaohm Device support major issues. Feb 13 00:56
schestowitz I change these occasionally for fun Feb 13 00:56
schestowitz Which devices? Feb 13 00:56
oiaohm Sound support equally major issues. Feb 13 00:56
oiaohm pda’s and the like schestowitz Feb 13 00:57
oiaohm even system wide configurations 3.5 has issues doing them cleanly. Feb 13 00:57
schestowitz But one that’s compatible Feb 13 00:57
schestowitz *Buy Feb 13 00:57
oiaohm Yep kinda does not work. Feb 13 00:57
oiaohm KDE 3.5 running on freebsd solarias and Linux all have different device support. Feb 13 00:58
oiaohm Even that they are all the same version of KDE. Feb 13 00:58
oiaohm solid is about sorting that out with global configurations. Feb 13 00:58
oiaohm Basically KDE 3.5 has some major kernel messes. Feb 13 00:59
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oiaohm Arts sound system did not help compadiblity with non KDE applcications. Feb 13 00:59
schestowitz arts is being phased out gradually, no? Feb 13 01:00
oiaohm There basically comes a point where to fix the problems is rebuild. Feb 13 01:00
schestowitz I don’t want to pronounce its death prematurely. Feb 13 01:00
oiaohm Kde 3.5 users arts.  KDE 4.0 does not. Feb 13 01:00
schestowitz oiaohm: kde gives the option Feb 13 01:00
oiaohm Kinda not gradually. Feb 13 01:00
schestowitz Or the packager (distro) does Feb 13 01:01
oiaohm KDE has photon Feb 13 01:01
oiaohm All access from KDE 4 to arts is threw that. Feb 13 01:01
oiaohm Same with access gstreamer and the like. Feb 13 01:01
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oiaohm arts is really not part of KDE 4. Feb 13 01:01
oiaohm arts is basically another thing like pulse audio. Feb 13 01:02
schestowitz Ashlee Vance with another trollish article: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/netbooks-a… Feb 13 01:06
oiaohm Imploding for who. Feb 13 01:06
schestowitz Not the environment, that’s for sure :-) Feb 13 01:07
schestowitz Similar headline to mine: Microsoft wants an anti-Linux chief < http://vista.blorge.com/2009/02/10/mic… > Feb 13 01:25
oiaohm Microsoft has a problem how to you be anti something that is not one thing. Feb 13 01:27
schestowitz Precisely. Feb 13 01:31
schestowitz They said so explicitly. ballmer said it around 2005 Feb 13 01:31
schestowitz They are used to buying or crashing stuff. Feb 13 01:31
schestowitz *crushing Feb 13 01:32
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oiaohm Undermining is also hard to do against open source. Feb 13 01:34
oiaohm The bugger normally forks out of it. Feb 13 01:34
schestowitz Yes, thus hatred of licences like GPL Feb 13 01:35
schestowitz You take, you MUST give back Feb 13 01:35
schestowitz Thus empowering the forkers Feb 13 01:35
oiaohm GPL v3 they hate more. Feb 13 01:36
oiaohm http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000…  Some people like starting the predictable. Feb 13 01:37
schestowitz yes Feb 13 01:44
schestowitz It defangs their patent teeth Feb 13 01:44
schestowitz “Ina Fried”   *puke puke* it’s an MS mouth Feb 13 01:45
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MethodOne schestowitz, what distro and desktop environment do you currently use? Feb 13 02:18
schestowitz I use Mandriva and KDE on my main box. Feb 13 02:21
MethodOne thanks Feb 13 02:22
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MethodOne there’s one problem with clamav:  it doesn’t detect the epstein-barr virus in mono and programs that depend on it. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infect… if you don’t know what i mean Feb 13 02:36
schestowitz Hehe. Feb 13 02:38
schestowitz Thee’s mononono Feb 13 02:38
schestowitz http://tim.thechases.com/mononono/ Feb 13 02:39
MethodOne might as well make a mononono package for arch linux Feb 13 02:45
schestowitz :-) Feb 13 02:47
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?… Feb 13 04:08
NeonF|oss schestowitz: whats your opinion on bill gates as an individual? Feb 13 04:25
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schestowitz NeonF|oss: why do you ask? Feb 13 04:26
NeonF|oss dunno – I hear a lot about microsoft being bad – then I hear about bill gates doing some good stuff… im too laxy to do good research so I ask the expert (you) Feb 13 04:28
NeonF|oss :P Feb 13 04:28
schestowitz It requires a long explanation with a lot of supportive evidence; no room for concision here. Feb 13 04:28
NeonF|oss ok – then ill google it Feb 13 04:30
NeonF|oss got any suggested links? Feb 13 04:30
schestowitz Be careful whose sources. Gates owns a lot of press Feb 13 04:30
schestowitz I could do a post about it Feb 13 04:30
schestowitz Or just blurt out a quick explanation. Feb 13 04:30
NeonF|oss heh Feb 13 04:30
schestowitz Here goes. Feb 13 04:30
NeonF|oss :) Feb 13 04:30
schestowitz I ought to get some sleep soon though Feb 13 04:31
schestowitz Gates was born in a very affluent family. Feb 13 04:31
schestowitz His family had some sort of tradition of ‘tyranny’ in the sense that, as far as I know, there was government background (his grandfather) Feb 13 04:31
schestowitz His dad had many connections with people in  high places Feb 13 04:31
schestowitz Later he got ttogether with Abramoff, but that’s another story Abramoff is in jail now) Feb 13 04:32
schestowitz The story tells that a lot of what Gates was able to achieve was done behind the scenes (like secret societies) by his dad and his friends. Feb 13 04:32
schestowitz But then comes the role of his young adult life Feb 13 04:33
schestowitz He raised some sort of prospect/career for ‘tealing’ other people’s ideas Feb 13 04:33
schestowitz To get computer time, he and Allen sabotaged the machines (so that they can ‘fix’ them) Feb 13 04:33
schestowitz With some help from his mother IIRC he got help from IBM (a deal) Feb 13 04:33
schestowitz He later screwed them Feb 13 04:34
schestowitz This involved sabotage Feb 13 04:34
schestowitz The pattern persisted for many years Feb 13 04:34
schestowitz The gagg of Ballmer, Gates, Silverberg, Kempin and other bullies like Allchin.. Feb 13 04:34
schestowitz In 1998 business was already bad Feb 13 04:34
schestowitz Microsoft practically lost $18 billiob Feb 13 04:34
schestowitz The whole thing was built on imaginary wealth, in part Feb 13 04:34
schestowitz Many companies in the US do this Feb 13 04:35
schestowitz Which may related to what became FrausStreet Feb 13 04:35
schestowitz A place for capital in small startup Feb 13 04:35
schestowitz Then devolving into trade in funny money, i.e. escapism from the original goals Feb 13 04:35
schestowitz Rather than trade chickens for albums, for exmple, you’d trade some shares Feb 13 04:35
schestowitz So Microsoft had a possible financial blunder Feb 13 04:36
schestowitz Gates tepped down Feb 13 04:36
schestowitz Ballmer was put in charge to just milk money as long as he could Feb 13 04:36
schestowitz The criminal scheming persisted, as antitrust evidence clearly shows Feb 13 04:36
schestowitz Gates Foundation was created Feb 13 04:36
schestowitz This provided a haven tax Feb 13 04:36
schestowitz Pet charities are to be found in many other places Feb 13 04:37
schestowitz They are a legal loophole Feb 13 04:37
schestowitz They enable imrovement of business under guise of ‘goodness’ and bliss Feb 13 04:37
schestowitz The public can buy this perc eption because it’s hard to criticise something that’s called a charity Feb 13 04:37
schestowitz Moreover, this ‘charity’ can buy media companies and attack fogs to fight media that is not obedient, i.e. that which says the truth about pet charitiesa Feb 13 04:38
schestowitz Gates FOundation got exposed too Feb 13 04:38
schestowitz I think it was the Sun Mercury (?? name) that showed where the money was going Feb 13 04:38
schestowitz The Gates Foundation essentially bribes government and also invests money in the same companies whom it tells government to pass money to Feb 13 04:39
schestowitz Gates needn’t pay tax Feb 13 04:39
schestowitz So another abuser/harvester called Warren Buffett chipped in Feb 13 04:39
schestowitz Why pay tax (back to the public) when you can stash it in some bank account with “charity” label Feb 13 04:39
schestowitz And so the myth grew Feb 13 04:39
schestowitz Gates is now raising offshoots Feb 13 04:39
schestowitz Patent trolling, political activism (to help Microsoft), etc. Feb 13 04:40
schestowitz So that’s just pretty much the story Feb 13 04:40
schestowitz About a company that milked the system, broke the law and then used the media to pretend all was charming and benevolent. Feb 13 04:40
schestowitz I’m off to bed  now. Feb 13 04:40
schestowitz Cya in the morning. Feb 13 04:40
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NeonF|oss wow Feb 13 04:52
NeonF|oss thanks Feb 13 04:52
NeonF|oss :P Feb 13 04:52
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MinceR j0 Feb 13 09:16
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*zer0c00l says room is in pin drop silence :D Feb 13 10:12
*zer0c00l knows one half of the world is sleeping ;) Feb 13 10:13
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schestowitz Morning. Feb 13 10:27
oiaohm Hi schestowitz its night Feb 13 10:27
schestowitz Good night Feb 13 10:27
*schestowitz back to bed Feb 13 10:27
PetoKraus :) Feb 13 10:27
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zer0c00l hi schestowitz Feb 13 10:32
schestowitz Hi, what’s’ up? Feb 13 10:33
zer0c00l just wanted to say hii..is it night there? Feb 13 10:34
zer0c00l then good night sorry for distrubing you Feb 13 10:34
zer0c00l :) Feb 13 10:34
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zer0c00l those news on the front page of boycottnovell are very usefull :) Feb 13 10:36
oiaohm Having some connections fun my end.  Its night here. Feb 13 10:36
zer0c00l its evening here :( Feb 13 10:36
zer0c00l :) Feb 13 10:36
schestowitz zer0c00l: glad you find them handy. Feb 13 10:37
zer0c00l yeah i liked the ubuntu windoze 7 benchmark link Feb 13 10:37
zer0c00l also those games Feb 13 10:37
zer0c00l i am going to organize a club event here in college..those links are very usefull for my presentation Feb 13 10:38
zer0c00l *club event on linux Feb 13 10:38
zer0c00l https://fossbazaar.org/content/open-sou… i comment there on the post Feb 13 10:40
zer0c00l *made a comment on that post Feb 13 10:40
zer0c00l she has mentioned something about NRCFOSS (which is a org created by indian govt for promoting foss) but isn’t doing well Feb 13 10:41
schestowitz Hehe.. so true. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZlrGU… Feb 13 10:41
schestowitz Yes, I saw that post left out microsoft’s well documented crimes in India Feb 13 10:42
zer0c00l she never mentioned about ooxml Feb 13 10:42
zer0c00l and painted wipro as a foss friend Feb 13 10:43
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zer0c00l but wipro isn’t Feb 13 10:43
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zer0c00l they are proxies of microsoft in india Feb 13 10:43
zer0c00l *wipro voted for ooxml Feb 13 10:43
schestowitz Yuck Feb 13 10:44
schestowitz Wipro Feb 13 10:44
schestowitz I view them as accomplices Feb 13 10:44
schestowitz http://www.google.com/custom?q=wipr… Feb 13 10:45
schestowitz witz.com%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en Feb 13 10:45
schestowitz Oops. Wait. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=… Feb 13 10:45
zer0c00l i see a lot about wipro :) Feb 13 10:47
schestowitz Yes, links therein too, so it closes some circles. I have more outside BN Feb 13 10:48
zer0c00l time to attend a metting Feb 13 10:57
zer0c00l bye Feb 13 10:57
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oiaohm LOL Feb 13 11:27
oiaohm That was a mother of a link schestowitz Feb 13 11:27
schestowitz WHich one? Feb 13 11:34
oiaohm The one you went Opps on. Feb 13 11:35
schestowitz Linux celebrates its 1234567890′th breath < http://www.itwire.com/content/v… > Feb 13 11:37
oiaohm That is from unix Feb 13 11:37
schestowitz Yes Feb 13 11:37
schestowitz I thought the same thing. Feb 13 11:38
schestowitz The DisneyWorld (*cough*) of IT ain’t so rosy: More job cuts ahead at Google < http://www.itwire.com/content/… > Feb 13 11:38
oiaohm 1970 Feb 13 11:38
oiaohm Pitty most Unixs where not around to party over it. Feb 13 11:38
schestowitz NHS is a mess…… http://www.smarthealthcare.com/almei… Feb 13 11:41
oiaohm Could have told you that was comming. Feb 13 11:42
oiaohm Future contract for me with Google got canceled on me. Feb 13 11:42
oiaohm Day before it passed the point of no return. Feb 13 11:43
oiaohm That really suxed. Feb 13 11:43
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schestowitz What a waste of engineering… http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/… Feb 13 11:45
schestowitz Google Axes Radio Ads < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/0… > Feb 13 11:48
schestowitz Nice new design in FSFE’s site: http://blogs.fsfe.org/ciaran/?p=171 Feb 13 11:49
oiaohm Ok the missed the other way to win in battle. Feb 13 11:50
oiaohm Australian colin class subs have it. Feb 13 11:50
oiaohm Don’t be invincibility or invisibility.  Be able to clone the signature of your enemy. Feb 13 11:52
oiaohm If they cannot tell friend from foe they can blow there own units up. Feb 13 11:52
oiaohm Caused minor caos when Australian opertator in a USA Australian war game typoed and changed signature to a russian attack sub. Feb 13 11:53
schestowitz I wonder how the deficit will affect armament, esp. in the US. Feb 13 11:55
oiaohm I don’t think it will be 100 percent invisable. Feb 13 11:56
oiaohm thinking sonar exists that can pickup a diver in the water. Feb 13 11:56
schestowitz Yes, but that makes a sales pitch Feb 13 11:57
oiaohm I still like the Australian method better. Feb 13 11:57
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jose__ http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Micr… Feb 13 11:57
jose__ great move by microsoft Feb 13 11:57
jose__ great for us Feb 13 11:57
oiaohm Yep double cross there OEMS. Feb 13 11:57
oiaohm MS is getting desperate. Feb 13 11:58
jose__ or maybe the honeymoon was over Feb 13 11:58
jose__ already Feb 13 11:58
oiaohm Think about it you are a OEM building MS machines and MS opens a store down the road. Feb 13 11:59
oiaohm MS is desprate to concider a move like this. Feb 13 12:00
oiaohm Risks making more people sell Linux stuff. Feb 13 12:00
jose__ yup Feb 13 12:00
jose__ differentiator Feb 13 12:01
jose__ you can’t compete with an ms store Feb 13 12:01
jose__ of course, linux can’t stand still Feb 13 12:01
jose__ or this could possibly even backfire Feb 13 12:02
jose__ ? Feb 13 12:02
jose__ ms had it easy Feb 13 12:02
jose__ if they go retail, their costs should go up Feb 13 12:02
jose__ things aren’t looking great for them id’ think Feb 13 12:02
oiaohm Quote the cost for a OEM store to have 10 copyies of Feb 13 12:02
oiaohm Vista and office + 1 server Feb 13 12:03
oiaohm For there business use. Feb 13 12:03
oiaohm Its 699 AUD for me. Feb 13 12:03
jose__ going retail offers a chance for ms to sell their hw crap Feb 13 12:03
jose__ i don’t think ms has lower ambitions that to own everything at some point in time Feb 13 12:04
jose__ so it makes sense for them to expand this way at some point Feb 13 12:04
schestowitz jose__: good news indeed Feb 13 12:04
schestowitz It shows that they run out of money Feb 13 12:04
jose__ but i think their hand is being forced Feb 13 12:04
schestowitz Which I knew Feb 13 12:04
schestowitz They tried h/w with ZUne and XBox Feb 13 12:05
schestowitz It failed badly Feb 13 12:05
jose__ ms store might become a very big joke Feb 13 12:05
oiaohm MS can heavly discount there software. Feb 13 12:05
oiaohm MS has lots control of the big 5 OEM builders. Feb 13 12:05
oiaohm IBM HP ASUS DELL and SONY. Feb 13 12:05
jose__ oh Feb 13 12:05
jose__ i hope they didn’t buy up the leftovers of circuit city for cheap Feb 13 12:05
jose__ has or had Feb 13 12:06
oiaohm MS has a disadvantage. Feb 13 12:06
jose__ ms is stepping on more toes now.. like you said Feb 13 12:06
oiaohm Name a CPU maker who is going to double cross the big open makers. Feb 13 12:06
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oiaohm Remember super computer builders take almost as many processes as the complete desktop market. Feb 13 12:07
oiaohm VIA maybe but that is about it for x86 chips. Feb 13 12:08
oiaohm Company in death throws is funny. Feb 13 12:08
jose__ i’ll be laughing more when i actually see the money in the drain Feb 13 12:09
jose__ i don’t underestimate ms Feb 13 12:09
jose__ maybe laugh while i double up my efforts Feb 13 12:09
schestowitz Microsoft security news: bounty on cyber-criminals; botnet problem; “critical” vulnerabilities and more: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/13/b… Feb 13 12:09
oiaohm Problem I have I don’t see a way forward for MS. Feb 13 12:09
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oiaohm You did put the comment in there the bounties are only so they have someone to blame other than the own incompetence schestowitz Feb 13 12:10
oiaohm Nice Feb 13 12:12
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schestowitz Yes, you put it better than I did. Feb 13 12:20
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oiaohm http://www.thelocal.se/17554/20090212/  Seen this one yet schestowitz pirate bay guys got. Feb 13 12:50
schestowitz It will be broadcated. Feb 13 12:51
schestowitz *casted Feb 13 12:51
schestowitz But they face a Big MAFIAA. Mafia with money controls laws, through corruptible politicians. Feb 13 12:52
oiaohm remeber less piracy more people who have to look to something legal. Feb 13 12:54
schestowitz They ignore the legitimate stuff on there Feb 13 12:57
schestowitz P2P and torrent merely pass files Feb 13 12:57
schestowitz They are not entertainment  machines. They just pass information around, just like HTTP, FTP, Telnet, voice, pen and paper… Feb 13 12:58
oiaohm There are some legal questions about that. Feb 13 12:58
oiaohm A tracker provides a linking point between them. Feb 13 12:58
schestowitz You can’t stop people communicatingh Feb 13 12:58
schestowitz You can try to keep them more isolated Feb 13 12:58
schestowitz You could impede communication, but where’s the ethics in that? Feb 13 12:59
oiaohm You can done for providing a link to pirated software on web pages in lots of countries. Feb 13 12:59
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, a tracker gives points, BUT Feb 13 12:59
schestowitz Google gives pointers too Feb 13 12:59
schestowitz Does it make Google illegal? Feb 13 12:59
schestowitz In China they sued some search engines for doing what they do… crawling and indexing pages for searchers Feb 13 13:00
oiaohm Try searching for illegal software by name on google. Feb 13 13:00
oiaohm Its a little hard to find. Feb 13 13:00
oiaohm Google does obey removal requests from search. Feb 13 13:00
schestowitz It doesn’t stop it though Feb 13 13:00
oiaohm Stop it no makes it harder. Feb 13 13:00
schestowitz Determined searchers will get what they want Feb 13 13:00
schestowitz It’s like stopping the kid from having candy by putting it above the high shelf Feb 13 13:01
schestowitz In fact, you make the stuff even more desirable that way Feb 13 13:01
schestowitz Scarcity of information make it a taboo Feb 13 13:01
schestowitz “DON’T CLOCK HERE” (social engineering) Feb 13 13:01
oiaohm No its more like hiding the candy bar. Feb 13 13:01
oiaohm Not every kid will be smart enough or determined enough to find it. Feb 13 13:02
schestowitz DON”T CLICK THIS!!! >> http://www.ubersoft.net/comi… Feb 13 13:02
oiaohm System admin Feb 13 13:02
oiaohm don’t click this gets obeyed after nukeing a system for having too much cat. Feb 13 13:02
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sanskumar lets boycottnovell :) Feb 13 13:09
schestowitz Let’s Feb 13 13:11
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schestowitz By what means would you otherwise bring change? Feb 13 13:12
*sanskumar is confused Feb 13 13:14
schestowitz Oh.. :-) Feb 13 13:16
schestowitz I meant, yes, let us boycott. Feb 13 13:17
schestowitz I don’t know what else to try to correct Novell. Many people tried other means in November 2006. Novell declines. Feb 13 13:17
jose__ reverse psychology works.. but not in everything Feb 13 13:21
jose__ when people don’t explain or appear to be hiding things.. then it tends to work more Feb 13 13:21
jose__ when you unmask and reveal as much as possible.. there you are more likely to get different results Feb 13 13:21
jose__ the motivations and forwardness of those “giving advice” plays a role Feb 13 13:23
jose__ and if people do the opposite.. they might be willing to bail out quicker if what was said appears to be confirmed. Feb 13 13:23
jose__ that’s not to imply “we” are correct or pure or anything Feb 13 13:24
jose__ personally, i don’t like reverse psychology Feb 13 13:24
jose__ it’s a show of strength.. as well as respect.. to try and be forward Feb 13 13:24
jose__ short-term you may suffer some and not get the quick result you desired.. but long term is what counts Feb 13 13:26
schestowitz Microsoft’s ‘limited’ beta Feb 13 13:29
jose__ being deceptive can be fun.. but there is a point after which it is not fun Feb 13 13:31
jose__ ha ha ha ha Feb 13 13:33
jose__ I was just kidding!!! Feb 13 13:33
jose__ .. Feb 13 13:33
jose__ ;-) Feb 13 13:33
jose__ An softie talking to us about trust: Feb 13 13:44
jose__ “Cloud computing is ultimately going to be, do you trust this provider to have more to lose than I have to lose as a company if they mess me up?” Ozzie [pictured] said in an interview with ZDNet UK’s sister site, CNET News.com, in Los Angeles on Monday at Microsoft’s Professional Developers Conference. Feb 13 13:44
jose__ http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1… Feb 13 13:44
jose__ this is from last year, btw Feb 13 13:44
jose__ we should trust them about as much as they trust us Feb 13 13:45
jose__ we know how open Microsoft is after all Feb 13 13:45
schestowitz Wow. Feb 13 13:45
schestowitz 160+ banks breached Feb 13 13:45
schestowitz Due to “malware” Feb 13 13:45
jose__ details? Feb 13 13:46
schestowitz CNET is Microsoft/Apple Feb 13 13:46
schestowitz Ozzie is their tool for the illusion of gentle Microsoft because he has ‘cleaner’ history. Feb 13 13:47
schestowitz jose__: wait, I’ll post Feb 13 13:47
schestowitz Help me prooofread Feb 13 13:47
jose__ ok Feb 13 13:47
jose__ it sounds very juicy Feb 13 13:47
jose__ but maybe you are just teasing us Feb 13 13:47
schestowitz OK, here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/13… Feb 13 13:48
schestowitz Symbian Foundation in anti-Android recruit drive < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009… > Feb 13 13:50
schestowitz Lenovo cuts 550 jobs across Europe < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/02/1… > Feb 13 13:50
jose__ http://www.heartlandpaymentsystems.c… Feb 13 13:51
jose__ they use .asp pages Feb 13 13:51
schestowitz http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_repor… Feb 13 13:51
schestowitz Many US-based companies do…. same in the UK Feb 13 13:51
jose__ breaches can happen to anyone.. was their software vuln or was it a people problem Feb 13 13:52
jose__ and if sw, what part of it Feb 13 13:52
schestowitz English -speaking countries (maybe with the exception of SA to an extent) are in Microsoft’s pocket. Feb 13 13:52
jose__ from that last page i linked: Feb 13 13:53
jose__ >> Plus, because we developed the platform internally, you don’t have to worry about the crippling time and cost constraints that often hamper the development of technological innovations. Feb 13 13:53
jose__ >> For example, to better secure your customers’ cardholder data, we’re currently developing end-to-end encryption. This industry-leading innovation takes security to the next level, encrypting card numbers at the time of swiping — thereby, protecting data in motion in addition to data at rest. Feb 13 13:54
jose__ note the repeat use of “innovation” Feb 13 13:54
jose__ innovating my money and security away Feb 13 13:54
jose__ >> At Heartland, we put the power of innovation and technology to work Feb 13 13:55
jose__ that’s a lot of innovation Feb 13 13:55
jose__ almost missed this one.. right at the beginning: Feb 13 13:55
jose__ >> At its heart, Heartland is all about innovation Feb 13 13:55
jose__ I just like that word.. it reminds me of a few of my favorite things .. girls in white dresses.. and Microsoft.. and software patents Feb 13 13:56
jose__ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUno0WNot5U Feb 13 13:57
schestowitz Hm….. Feb 13 13:58
schestowitz /Whose/ power do they “to work”? Feb 13 13:58
schestowitz The crackers’? Feb 13 13:58
schestowitz *LOL* ” girls in white dresses.. and Microsoft.. and software paten” Feb 13 13:59
schestowitz I like that song. Don’t ruin it with gangster connotations Feb 13 13:59
jose__ enjoy the flick Feb 13 13:59
jose__ it should help your mind recover Feb 13 13:59
jose__ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7FMkgwTP3o Feb 13 14:00
schestowitz The original is better Feb 13 14:01
schestowitz You can envision some madman jumping on stage and shouting “I love this company” (similar idea) Feb 13 14:02
jose__ see i go to some trouble to bring entertainment and keep you sane and all you can think about is Feb 13 14:04
jose__ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6rqXHX3O48 Feb 13 14:04
jose__ turn to minute 1:10 Feb 13 14:05
schestowitz Someone from Novell just told me: “you have delivered amazing work and the world should know its freedom of speech and controverse in a factual matter” Feb 13 14:10
schestowitz I know this video too. It’s great Feb 13 14:10
schestowitz Ballmer lip-synchs well Feb 13 14:11
schestowitz “frankinstein looks like mccain” Feb 13 14:13
jose__ careful about schmoozers.. but yes, I agree bn has a lot of great stuff Feb 13 14:14
jose__ roy, one thing you might consider Feb 13 14:15
jose__ is to license the material so that others can build their own fronts to the parts of it they like Feb 13 14:15
jose__ this way, the info can reach wider audiences and bn can keep going Feb 13 14:15
jose__ without worrying about marketing Feb 13 14:15
jose__ licensing.. i’m thinking one of the cc licenses (to preserve integrity of data but allow profiting) Feb 13 14:16
jose__ people may like the idea and not mind giving you back a small cut of ads money and such to simplify things for you Feb 13 14:16
jose__ i didn’t mention this when the topic came up by “Friend” because i don’t know what demand out there is Feb 13 14:17
jose__ also some things are raw Feb 13 14:17
jose__ since this is evolving work Feb 13 14:17
jose__ so be careful about what others will (ab)use Feb 13 14:17
jose__ most things i have seen though are very good.. it’s only that sometimes you appear to get a little carried away Feb 13 14:18
jose__ i can do that on irc and comments because i’m no one Feb 13 14:18
jose__ but you don’t have that luxury Feb 13 14:18
jose__ :-) Feb 13 14:18
jose__ well you do, but be careful Feb 13 14:18
schestowitz What licence to use? Feb 13 14:20
schestowitz We never appended any notification regarding copies Feb 13 14:20
schestowitz The Wiki has it though Feb 13 14:20
jose__ i don’t know current law, but i expect that those posting opinions implictly give permission for reading at least from this site Feb 13 14:21
jose__ you’d want more than that ideally.. ‘ Feb 13 14:21
jose__ not sure what practice is on the Internet for blogging Feb 13 14:22
jose__ if you got ad money, you could beef up servers and allow direct linking instead of mirroring Feb 13 14:22
jose__ worst case, filter out the comments Feb 13 14:23
jose__ though you have (and can more formally get) my permission to reproduce what I have written under a suitable license Feb 13 14:24
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jose__ also, beware of people that will want to tag bn with “doing it for the money” Feb 13 14:25
jose__ i know you are sensitive to that Feb 13 14:25
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jose__ however, getting the word out is still useful Feb 13 14:25
jose__ otoh, a lot of the content doesn’t need to reach everyone.. just strategic individuals Feb 13 14:26
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MethodOne instead of a mononono package for arch linux, i submitted this bug report: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13253 Feb 13 14:27
schestowitz jose__: yes, that’s why I wanted Shane’s ads removed Feb 13 14:30
schestowitz But he pays for hosting Feb 13 14:30
schestowitz MethodOne: thanks. Feb 13 14:30
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jose__ MethodOne could you add a link to http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/04/th… on my behalf.. i think you have to have a login account to post Feb 13 14:34
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/… Feb 13 14:35
jose__ well, add it if you agree and want.. i’ll keep your bug report link handy for when/if i get an account there Feb 13 14:35
MethodOne some people who criticize your blog say it’s just about “a thousand reasons why microsoft sucks”, but you do give valid points Feb 13 14:38
schestowitz I just got some message from an FSFE fellow: “I appreciate the work you’re doing.” Feb 13 14:38
schestowitz MethodOne: thanks. We don’t do bashing (“Zune sucks” etc.), we give reaons Feb 13 14:39
MethodOne ok Feb 13 14:39
schestowitz I’ve just improved the Wiki a lot.. I’m adding the court order. “”..all Comes documents were released by the Iowa judge’s court order – those marked “Confidential” were prior to that order. if you don’t have it I can find the PDF for you, it was part of the site. Grouch’s mirror (edge-op.org) is regarded by PJ as being the only reliable Comes mirror; he had posted his wget logs which proves the origins of the files.” Feb 13 14:40
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jose__ the bug report was closed already Feb 13 14:56
jose__ >> Reason for closing:  Not a bug Feb 13 14:57
jose__ Additional comments about closing:  tomboy is part of the gnome desktop. The gnome group contains the basic parts of gnome, gnome-extra is supposed to contain everything else from the desktop suite. Feb 13 14:57
jose__ also Feb 13 14:57
jose__ >> gnome-extra is not a meta package, but a group from which you can choose what to install. Just say no to the apps you dont need. Feb 13 14:57
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schestowitz Who is closing these bug reports? Feb 13 15:01
jose__ i can see the name but i don’t know who anyone is Feb 13 15:01
schestowitz There is always the chance that those with a hand on the tap are Mono devs Feb 13 15:01
jose__ Grigorios Bouzakis (dolby) Feb 13 15:01
schestowitz I’ve seen this happen in Ubuntu Feb 13 15:01
jose__ first make sure it is a legit bug. Feb 13 15:02
jose__ is it something crucial or not Feb 13 15:02
schestowitz Seems like mostly an arch dev Feb 13 15:02
schestowitz Nothing sinister.. Feb 13 15:02
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozcli… Feb 13 15:02
twitter yo ho, yo ho, M$ Retail Failure, http://slashdot.org/fireho… Feb 13 15:02
schestowitz They just don’t want to listen. The Novell propaganda get ‘em. Feb 13 15:03
twitter bombed to oblivion already. Feb 13 15:03
schestowitz Yes, it will also empty their coffers for good Feb 13 15:03
schestowitz It shows they lack direction Feb 13 15:03
schestowitz Had they managed to carry on with business, they would resort to selling hardware, filing patents, opening stores, etc. Feb 13 15:04
MethodOne maybe i’ve been using debian-based distros too much Feb 13 15:04
MethodOne and i think of the metapackages there Feb 13 15:04
twitter Slashdot picked up another, more positive entry http://slashdot.org/article.pl… Feb 13 15:04
jose__ MethodOne, I am not agreeing with what was said since i don’t know. i assume it’s correct. Feb 13 15:06
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schestowitz I lobbied journos to cover the issues with Mono/Moonlight when they write about it. Feb 13 15:07
schestowitz Apathy prevails Feb 13 15:07
schestowitz Hi, Tina! Feb 13 15:07
schestowitz Here is one response I got (anonymised) Feb 13 15:07
schestowitz “Thanks for writing. I respect the energy and skepticism you bring to the anti-Novell site (are you still running that?) but having read and written about so many patent cross-licensing deals, so many joint marketing deals, so many reseller/distributor deals, between so many companies, over the course of so many years, I just can’t see anything all that unusual in the MS/Novell partnership.” Feb 13 15:07
schestowitz “There are sure a lot of things not to like about Microsoft, and I do tend to suspect their motives in a lot of cases, but their deal with Novell hasn’t been one of them. “ Feb 13 15:07
schestowitz They are always the same people who cover Mono/Moonlight news, and it’s always described as a Good Thing. Feb 13 15:08
tinagasperson hello. Feb 13 15:08
schestowitz I see you write for Jupitermedia now. Feb 13 15:08
MethodOne in debian-based distros, there are metapackages like “gnome” and “kde” Feb 13 15:08
MethodOne and “build-essential” Feb 13 15:10
schestowitz Does arch have a DE preference? Feb 13 15:14
twitter Ummm, can’t these so called journalist see a difference between non free cross licensing and patent claims on free software? Feb 13 15:15
twitter Sure, all of it is anti-competitive and bad but it all leads to the present where there is basically no commercial competition left and free software is the last target. Feb 13 15:15
schestowitz They confuse this with the Novell deal Feb 13 15:17
schestowitz Shane choosing the site name “Boycott Novell” does *not* help Feb 13 15:17
twitter What would you like the site to be named? Feb 13 15:18
twitter Is this you Tina? http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/author.php… Feb 13 15:18
schestowitz Just posted http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/13/… Feb 13 15:19
schestowitz twitter: something like “intellectual monopoly watch”, maybe? Feb 13 15:19
schestowitz Just no negativism in the title Feb 13 15:19
twitter Software Monopoly Watch? Feb 13 15:20
twitter nice article, http://www.linux.com/feature/147981 Feb 13 15:25
twitter The poor woman’s history is even more scattered than my own. Feb 13 15:25
twitter I’m glad she found a place in the free software world. Feb 13 15:25
twitter nice to have you here tina.  What are you working on? Feb 13 15:28
jose__ i can live with boycottnovell Feb 13 15:28
jose__ preferable would be something like Avoid Monopolysoft Feb 13 15:29
jose__ but that’s just me Feb 13 15:30
jose__ roy, your suggestion probably represents what you do best Feb 13 15:30
jose__ best represents what you do Feb 13 15:30
schestowitz Carla became editor of some sites. She has been a lot more understanding than some others of the goals achieved by BN Feb 13 15:31
schestowitz jose__: monopolysoft sounds like some Macropolis-type name.. like Ubersoft. Feb 13 15:32
schestowitz :-) http://www.ubersoft.net/comic/hd/200… Feb 13 15:32
jose__ monopolysoft contractor? Feb 13 15:32
jose__ :-) Feb 13 15:32
schestowitz Darl? Feb 13 15:32
jose__ uncle (lockness monster) pennybags Feb 13 15:33
schestowitz I don’t get it: http://tirania.org./blog/archive/… Feb 13 15:34
schestowitz Nothing to do with de Icaza… ¿Is he pretending to have endorsement from Linus? Feb 13 15:35
jose__ roy, maybe after the five year contract is up, you can switch Feb 13 15:37
jose__ domainnames Feb 13 15:37
schestowitz Novell contract (2006-jan2012)? Feb 13 15:38
jose__ that sounds plausible but i don’t know details Feb 13 15:38
schestowitz Yeah… Feb 13 15:40
jose__ novell stands out for me because of their dedicated pushing of technologies that significantly favor microsoft.. the other things they do only confirm their worshipiness of the lockness monster Feb 13 15:40
schestowitz They keep spreading myths. Feb 13 15:40
schestowitz But they’ll recite the ‘consensus’ that Microsoft is the bestest technology for the task. Microsoft has $4bn budget for marketing such imposed ignorance Feb 13 15:41
schestowitz And people like benJIman help propagate it Feb 13 15:41
schestowitz Microsoft, internal document: “Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input.  Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them.  Thus, you control mindshare!” Feb 13 15:41
jose__ well in all respects that come to mind just about, novell works for ms Feb 13 15:41
jose__ so boycottnovell is not too much worse than boycottmonopolysoft Feb 13 15:42
schestowitz At behest of? Feb 13 15:42
jose__ it might even be better come to think of it Feb 13 15:42
schestowitz But what if Novell was absorbed like ATI? Feb 13 15:42
schestowitz There is a “Microsoft hater” label but not a “Novell hater” label Feb 13 15:42
jose__ a more professional name though would be useful for having serious conversations with those that wanted to be serious Feb 13 15:42
schestowitz Linux journalists know to beware of saying bad things about Microsoft or else the Enderles will label them “Microsoft haters” Feb 13 15:43
jose__ novell defenders either fear their jobs or something, have expectations for $$$, or are under nda.. or all three, etc, wrt talking negatively about microsoft Feb 13 15:43
schestowitz Then they become “rotten Apple” Feb 13 15:43
schestowitz It’s like “unmaerican” or “commie” Feb 13 15:43
schestowitz There’s increased daemonisation of unions too Feb 13 15:43
jose__ i have not had a genuine conversation, i suspect, with the people defending microsoft or novell.. at least with those that do it over and over Feb 13 15:43
jose__ of course, sometimes you do imagine that you did have a meaningful conversation Feb 13 15:44
schestowitz People who protest for peace.. you’re supposed to hate them. The media tells you “they don’t support the troops” Feb 13 15:44
jose__ i’d rather remember those moments. Feb 13 15:44
jose__ sniff sniff Feb 13 15:44
schestowitz Which..? Feb 13 15:44
jose__ which moments, people, or something else which Feb 13 15:46
jose__ fear of job makes a lot of sense Feb 13 15:47
jose__ ballmer is unforgiving that way Feb 13 15:47
jose__ that’s how such organizations are run Feb 13 15:47
schestowitz Novell’s press release is disturbing: http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/… Feb 13 15:47
schestowitz Watch the headline. Novell is implying that only some touch of Microsoft codecs will “shed light” on desktop Linux Feb 13 15:48
jose__ more than yesterday’s sam dean ad? Feb 13 15:48
schestowitz “THANK GOODNESS! Linux is saved by .NET and WMV!” Feb 13 15:48
schestowitz Mary Jo Foley covered this too Feb 13 15:49
schestowitz The Windows people LOVE it Feb 13 15:49
jose__ >> Novell’s commitment to making Linux a first-class platform for multimedia and Rich Internet Applications. Moonlight provides the platform Linux users need to use Silverlight and Windows* Media content. Feb 13 15:49
schestowitz It makes Mirosoft stronger Feb 13 15:49
jose__ exactly Feb 13 15:49
jose__ about us being saved Feb 13 15:49
twitter Icaza has a sense of humor or at least appreciates Linus’ Feb 13 15:50
jose__ >> “Microsoft Silverlight offers the most comprehensive and powerful solution for the creation and delivery of rich internet applications and media experiences, and is used by hundreds of thousands of developers worldwide,” said Scott Guthrie, corporate vice president of the .NET Developer Division at Microsoft Corp. “We have worked with the Moonlight team and Novell to enable interoperability between Windows and Linux platforms and extend the high-qua Feb 13 15:50
jose__ lity interactive Web and video experience for the benefit of the Linux community.” Feb 13 15:50
schestowitz Paul Krill wrote about this too Feb 13 15:51
schestowitz I betcha Microsoft is applying pressure to journalists to write about this Feb 13 15:51
jose__ are all of these people using silverlight because visstud got the plugins or something? Feb 13 15:51
jose__ money Feb 13 15:51
schestowitz “Come on,” they say. “Write about this Linux thing. We love it at Microsoft Corp.” Feb 13 15:51
schestowitz Peace and harmoney Feb 13 15:51
schestowitz Peace and harmony with OUR API Feb 13 15:52
schestowitz OUR patents Feb 13 15:52
schestowitz Our roadmap Feb 13 15:52
jose__ our linux distro Feb 13 15:52
schestowitz SUSE Feb 13 15:52
schestowitz MSUSE Feb 13 15:52
schestowitz MS USE Feb 13 15:52
schestowitz MS SUE Feb 13 15:52
twitter MiS USE Feb 13 15:53
schestowitz Novell cuts SUSE developers < http://www.itworldcanada.com/a/News/14a78… > Feb 13 15:53
schestowitz There’s more coming though. It’s a shame that they cut in this department Feb 13 15:54
twitter they need the money for astroturf. Feb 13 15:54
schestowitz But the boycott is aimed at preventing Novell from subverting Linux Feb 13 15:54
schestowitz I don’t care about their Netware side Feb 13 15:54
twitter Funny how these “multimedia Linux” articles don’t mention VLC or MythTV Feb 13 15:55
jose__ it’s horrible when so much money and leverage is concentrated in such few hands. Feb 13 15:55
twitter WMV and Silverlight, wow.  Where would free software be without second rate codecs. Feb 13 15:55
jose__ it only gets worse as that grows Feb 13 15:55
jose__ ms is slurping the proprie of all of these “parters” Feb 13 15:56
schestowitz Freudian? Feb 13 15:57
jose__ apparently with the blessing from major shareholders.. i’m thinking vmware for example Feb 13 15:57
twitter There have been a couple of setbacks, like Groklaw and Technocrat demise, but Boycott Novell and other success more than makes up for it. Feb 13 15:57
schestowitz Parters   Feb 13 15:57
twitter Wedgi Feb 13 15:57
twitter parters Feb 13 15:57
schestowitz I deleted Technocrat from my list today because there’s no chance of it coming back — for now Feb 13 15:58
schestowitz WEDGi? Feb 13 15:58
schestowitz That’s another name for EDGI Feb 13 15:58
schestowitz In one of the E-mails they call it that Feb 13 15:58
twitter Yes,  WEDGI.  It’s funny how the fundi christians called their Intelligent Design attack on evolution the “Wedge” project too. Feb 13 15:58
twitter It’s like the same bunch of nutbags doing both. Feb 13 15:58
twitter http://www.infidels.org/secula… Feb 13 15:59
schestowitz MOGara is still focusing on Novell stuff Feb 13 16:00
schestowitz It’s like an attempt to boost their business. Never a word about Ubuntu from Maureen or anyone else in Sys-con.. Feb 13 16:00
twitter That’s interesting.  Ubuntu is larger than Suse isn’t it? Feb 13 16:01
twitter If Sys-con were writing about what their readers rather than their advertisers cared about, they would write about Ubuntu. Feb 13 16:02
schestowitz 2008: Novell Ships Moonlight 1.0 < http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Applicati… > Feb 13 16:03
schestowitz What is going on there? Feb 13 16:03
schestowitz Is Novell re-announcing old s/w? Feb 13 16:03
schestowitz I was surprised by the press release actually because I thought it had already been released Feb 13 16:03
jose__ yeah, i noticed that Feb 13 16:04
jose__ and this one is dated feb 9 09 Feb 13 16:04
schestowitz twitter: in Sys-con it’s about what pays them… they do conferences and stuff. SCO, Novell, Microsoft, cloud (lockin)…. never anything to do with Freedom Feb 13 16:04
jose__ sorry.. feb 11 Feb 13 16:04
schestowitz So what’s the explanation? Feb 13 16:04
schestowitz What’s the news? Feb 13 16:04
jose__ it’s an ad Feb 13 16:04
jose__ running old ads is fine Feb 13 16:05
schestowitz The comments in Linux Today are good: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php… Feb 13 16:05
schestowitz \Raise an issue with Moonlight in LXer and you’ll be attacked by the vocal hounds Feb 13 16:05
schestowitz jose__: really? Just old news? Feb 13 16:05
schestowitz The press release is basically no news: http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news… Feb 13 16:08
schestowitz It’s just a bunch of old news packaged up to fool reporters and pressure users to install this poison Feb 13 16:08
*[H]omer has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Feb 13 16:09
jose__ it’s an ad Feb 13 16:12
jose__ ads are repeated so that users have many opportunities Feb 13 16:12
jose__ btw, i’m just trying to put a label on the ad Feb 13 16:13
jose__ we all advertize Feb 13 16:13
jose__ repeatedly Feb 13 16:13
jose__ i know i do Feb 13 16:13
jose__ (sorry folks) Feb 13 16:13
jose__ Roy, certainly from reading over the intros to each of those artibles spaced some 9 months appart. they each appear to be introducing the same product Feb 13 16:15
jose__ nevermind Feb 13 16:15
jose__ the difference is that in the first case they claim to support silverlight 1.0 Feb 13 16:16
jose__ in the second case, they are releasing moonlight 1.0 Feb 13 16:16
schestowitz “No financial details were disclosed”. Huh??? http://linux.sys-con.com/node/840669 Feb 13 16:16
schestowitz It’s always there to suggest that money is paid to Microsoft for Moonlight Feb 13 16:16
*sanskumar has quit (“Leaving”) Feb 13 16:16
jose__ moon-0.6.tar.bz2 is presumably version 0.6 of moonlight Feb 13 16:16
jose__ 20,000 of many millions is not too much [<2%] Feb 13 16:19
schestowitz Watch Novell employees boosting Moonlight in OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/thread?348477 Feb 13 16:19
jose__ drop last comment.. i thought they were talking about silverlight. in any case, silverlight gets installed if ms wants and if you run windows Feb 13 16:20
schestowitz Yes Feb 13 16:21
schestowitz Watch the Novellers… Feb 13 16:21
schestowitz They don’t work for Novell much.. Feb 13 16:21
schestowitz They just leave comments in Web sites Feb 13 16:21
schestowitz So much for productivity Feb 13 16:21
schestowitz They try to tell it so that Microsoft carries on felling Novell (i.e. pays their wages) Feb 13 16:22
schestowitz *fuelling Feb 13 16:22
jose__ roy, the group that posts comments don’t have to overlap with those writing code Feb 13 16:24
jose__ a comment Feb 13 16:25
jose__ >> To get an idea of the cost of these codecs, you can look at Fluendo’s own codec pack, that goes for 28 euros per machine. It seems reasonable that Microsoft would choose to only distribute the codecs that they have licensed from MPEGLA and Fraunhofer for use in Moonlight and not to solve Linux’s media problems for us. Feb 13 16:25
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schestowitz jose__: that would serve Microsoft, yeah… Feb 13 16:33
schestowitz Anything that make Linux more expensive is good for them Feb 13 16:34
schestowitz Mark Shuttleworth made this point 2 years ago. The cost must stay $0 Feb 13 16:34
*mib_4z2zbj has quit (Client Quit) Feb 13 16:34
jose__ superconductivity Feb 13 16:35
jose__ you get a lot more bang for buck of energy Feb 13 16:35
jose__ don’t know if that was a good analogy Feb 13 16:35
jose__ but point is that even the smallest cost Feb 13 16:35
jose__ will become a real impediment Feb 13 16:35
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jose__ that last comment…. Feb 13 16:36
jose__ leveraging ms gunk Feb 13 16:36
jose__ to take over linux Feb 13 16:36
jose__ now ms claims they will deal with anyone Feb 13 16:36
*Casperin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Feb 13 16:36
jose__ but under what terms Feb 13 16:37
jose__ their old game is to favor Feb 13 16:37
jose__ as they take over a market Feb 13 16:37
jose__ kind of like ie gets favored treatment over all other browsers Feb 13 16:37
jose__ the law is too slow Feb 13 16:37
jose__ that’s why i like BN Feb 13 16:37
*mikankun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Feb 13 16:38
jose__ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-c… Feb 13 16:39
jose__ http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/06/ron-h… Feb 13 16:40
jose__ Let’s see, ms attempts to branch out into every industry. Feb 13 16:43
jose__ they spread their old execs Feb 13 16:43
jose__ a primary company is chosen to manage region X Feb 13 16:44
jose__ the other companies are drained of their goods Feb 13 16:44
jose__ sounds like a plan Feb 13 16:44
jose__ and all along, you have the B$M Foundry to smile for the cameras and have people feel warm and fuzzy Feb 13 16:45
*MethodOne has quit (“Ex-Chat”) Feb 13 16:46
jose__ now, let’s go out and schmooze troops!!! Feb 13 16:46
schestowitz Yes, that’s how it goes Feb 13 16:49
schestowitz That’s why you have to check people’s history. Feb 13 16:49
schestowitz Microsoft turned enemy Novell into an ally after Ray Noorda had passed away Feb 13 16:49
schestowitz As one reader put it, “Join us or die” Feb 13 16:50
schestowitz Microsoft even tried to do market division with Netscape Feb 13 16:50
schestowitz IOW, Microsoft tried to turn competition into a part of Microsoft’s ecosystem. Feb 13 16:50
schestowitz It is often stressed that Microsoft is like communism and this is just why Feb 13 16:51
jose__ roy, after a handful of bug reports on mono that get closed immediately without conversation, etc, maybe bn can do a piece on it. Feb 13 16:52
jose__ save the links and then we have to make sure the bug reports are reasonable Feb 13 16:52
schestowitz I think we gave examples of Ubuntu ones Feb 13 16:52
jose__ devs may want to avoid “politics” Feb 13 16:52
schestowitz Unless you have a good list of many examples Feb 13 16:53
schestowitz Besides, it can be used against us. Feb 13 16:53
jose__ personally, speaking as a dev and user, i think the patent-api issue is convincing Feb 13 16:53
jose__ you may not like patents, but to take what is known to be a real risk is not very acceptable Feb 13 16:53
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jose__ at least if you accually value FOSS and the licenses these projects tend to include Feb 13 16:54
jose__ actually not accually Feb 13 16:54
jose__ (i mentioned that typo because i tend to make it so want to stop) Feb 13 16:54
schestowitz S3 Graphics Still Talks Up Linux Support, But Fails < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=… > Feb 13 16:54
jose__ commercial interests benefiting from encumbered foss might do well to have developers on staff for just such an occasion Feb 13 16:55
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