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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 14th, 2009

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:08 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

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schestowitz FUD Attack: “Does anyone find this funny that the Federal Government is Microsoft’s biggest customer and they still refuse to move their own federal employee’s to a free OS, like Linux?” http://fcw.com/blogs/insider/2009/02… Feb 14 00:06
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yuhong I do hate the MS-Novell deal and don’t even touch SUSE. Feb 14 00:46
yuhong I don’t think Windows 7 is bad. Feb 14 00:46
benJIman Mono wins developer product of the year \o/ Feb 14 00:47
yuhong In summary, I do not even touch Novell SUSE and Mono, but do like Windows. Feb 14 00:47
yuhong What do you think of that? Feb 14 00:47
yuhong The MS-Novell deal is a bad deal, in my opinion. Feb 14 00:49
schestowitz hm…. youtube is down Feb 14 00:49
schestowitz earlier microsoft.com was down Feb 14 00:49
yuhong The deal allows MS to pay Novell to add MS patented tech to open source. Feb 14 00:50
yuhong MS then can sue all other Linux distributors so they pay MS. Feb 14 00:52
yuhong So your claims of poisoning are right. Feb 14 00:52
schestowitz You’re happy about it? Feb 14 00:53
yuhong No! Feb 14 00:53
yuhong This is certainly dangerous and not good. Feb 14 00:53
yuhong I do like Windows, but this is still not good. Feb 14 00:53
schestowitz Why not? Feb 14 00:53
benJIman Both youtube and microsoft down? :o conspiracy! Feb 14 00:53
yuhong I said why above. Feb 14 00:54
yuhong I am referring to the MS-Novell deal. Feb 14 00:54
schestowitz benJIman: what does that have to do with “Conspiracy”? Feb 14 00:54
schestowitz I made an observation Feb 14 00:54
yuhong The deal allows MS to pay Novell to add MS patented tech to open source. Feb 14 00:54
yuhong MS then can sue all other Linux distributors so they pay MS. Feb 14 00:55
yuhong So your claims of poisoning are right. Feb 14 00:55
yuhong What do you think about me now? Feb 14 00:56
yuhong I do touch Windows and don’t think it will die, but don’t even touch SUSE. Feb 14 00:57
yuhong I may touch Moonlight if I need to view Silverlight content on Windows, but that is it. Feb 14 00:57
yuhong schestowitz: What do you think about me now? Feb 14 00:58
schestowitz yuhong: I don’t know Feb 14 00:58
schestowitz You appear like “buzz” marketer Feb 14 00:59
yuhong Neutral? Feb 14 00:59
yuhong schestowitz: Anyway, why are you covering Windows on your blog, I though the only thing you are going to cover is on the deal. Feb 14 01:00
yuhong I believe ODF is more open than OOXML which is more open than the Office binary formats. Feb 14 01:01
schestowitz What are your professional interests if you don’t mind me asking? Feb 14 01:02
schestowitz Are you a developer per chance? Feb 14 01:02
yuhong A student. Feb 14 01:02
yuhong BTW, anyone predict when MS will sue other Linux distributors? Feb 14 01:04
benJIman It could sue Novell. The deal doesn’t preclude that. Feb 14 01:04
benJIman So Novell can’t afford to infringe Microsoft patents. Feb 14 01:04
yuhong Yea, but it provide a incentive to sue other Linux distributor so they pay MS, and that is the problem. Feb 14 01:05
yuhong I mean, it provide a incentive for Novell to poison the code. Feb 14 01:06
yuhong In other words, anyone predict when the Mono trap will go off? Feb 14 01:07
yuhong In contrast, without the MS-Novell deal, there is less incentive for MS to sue, even if Linux did infridge on MS patents. Feb 14 01:08
yuhong schestowitz: Anyway, why are you covering Windows on the Boycott Novell blog. Feb 14 01:09
yuhong I though the only thing you are going to cover is on the deal. Feb 14 01:09
schestowitz yuhong: the name of the site is misfortunate, but that’s not a new issue Feb 14 01:09
yuhong In fact, the site was started to cover the problems of the deal. Feb 14 01:10
yuhong Then it began to cover Windows. Feb 14 01:11
yuhong I was asking why it began to cover Windows. Feb 14 01:12
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MinceR gn Feb 14 01:21
schestowitz Yes, *LOL* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A… Feb 14 02:52
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schestowitz More public looting: http://www.pcworld.com/article/159559/us_c… Feb 14 10:13
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zoobab01 this kind of stimulus will go into the pockets of large companies as usual Feb 14 10:36
schestowitz Yes Feb 14 10:36
zoobab01 not in the pocket of independent workers Feb 14 10:36
schestowitz They work for the companies Feb 14 10:36
schestowitz Fixed wages Feb 14 10:36
zoobab01 middle class won’t even see the color Feb 14 10:37
schestowitz Yes, only the poor managers who need to get the next bonus (for another private jet ;-) ) Feb 14 10:37
zoobab01 “The bill includes $7.2 billion to help deploy broadband in rural and other unserved areas, $17 billion for incentives for health care providers to adopt electronic health records, and $11 billion to update the nation’s electricity grid by hooking it up to the Internet.” Feb 14 10:38
schestowitz Good for companies Feb 14 10:38
schestowitz Marketing: we help people get connected Feb 14 10:38
schestowitz Who pays: public Feb 14 10:38
schestowitz Who gets paid: private tyrannies. Feb 14 10:39
zoobab01 connecting the grid to the net? Feb 14 10:39
zoobab01 SCADA disaster? Feb 14 10:39
schestowitz Heh. Feb 14 10:39
zoobab01 disasters? Feb 14 10:39
schestowitz This has been done over and over again. Feb 14 10:40
zoobab01 “Republicans also complained they had less than 24 hours to digest the final version of the bill, about 1,000 pages long. No lawmaker has had the time to read the entire bill, Boehner said.” Feb 14 10:40
zoobab01 “Broadband Internet deployment creates jobs,” she said. Feb 14 10:40
zoobab01 she does not understand that it is not the deployment of infrastructure that make jobs Feb 14 10:41
zoobab01 but the usage of it Feb 14 10:41
zoobab01 basic university course in transport Feb 14 10:41
zoobab01 why create a road? Feb 14 10:41
schestowitz :-) Feb 14 10:41
zoobab01 because it makes trade easier Feb 14 10:41
zoobab01 Romans understood it long time ago Feb 14 10:42
schestowitz 1000 pages in 24 hours Feb 14 10:42
zoobab01 it is worse then OOXML Feb 14 10:42
zoobab01 :-) Feb 14 10:42
schestowitz OOXML express editiion? Feb 14 10:42
schestowitz How long was Lisbon’s? Feb 14 10:44
zoobab01 strategy? Feb 14 10:44
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09/a… Feb 14 10:44
schestowitz NAFTA….. Feb 14 10:44
schestowitz The public couldn’t vote on it Feb 14 10:45
schestowitz They vote for ‘brands’ Feb 14 10:45
schestowitz The Obama brand won this time around Feb 14 10:45
schestowitz Policies were not an option, just character Feb 14 10:45
schestowitz Contemporary control of thoughts. Feb 14 10:46
zoobab01 there are new docs to request Feb 14 10:46
schestowitz Leak too? Feb 14 10:46
schestowitz ACTA docs was leaked (part of the latest) Feb 14 10:46
zoobab01 http://www.ipjur.com/blog2/index.php?/archive… Feb 14 10:46
schestowitz http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/02/l… “If true, these are to the credit of the EU delegation, which is clearly trying to limit at least some of the most damaging aspects of ACTA.” Feb 14 10:47
zoobab01 EU delegation is Luc Devigne, pushing for undefined scope and so on Feb 14 10:47
schestowitz ** http://www.ipjur.com/blog2/index.php?/ar… Queued for posting later  ** Feb 14 10:48
schestowitz Is Luc a Neo con? Feb 14 10:48
zoobab01 the Americans don’t know but the IPRED1 lowers the level for injunctions, it is a very dangerous EU exportation to the US Feb 14 10:49
zoobab01 very good for patent trolls Feb 14 10:49
zoobab01 At the last meeting in June, he was very arrogant Feb 14 10:49
zoobab01 willing to take, not to answer any question Feb 14 10:49
schestowitz Take and not answer? Feb 14 10:50
schestowitz How does that work? Feb 14 10:50
zoobab01 take the worst ot of what the lobby wants Feb 14 10:50
zoobab01 probably Feb 14 10:51
zoobab01 you don’t know, the mandate is secret Feb 14 10:51
zoobab01 if citizens do not create a real revolt against Council unaccountability, it will last forever Feb 14 10:51
zoobab01 we had similar problems with the Swpat directive Feb 14 10:51
schestowitz But how do you  create a revolt? Feb 14 10:52
schestowitz Even protesters are these days daemonised. Feb 14 10:52
zoobab01 a good drafted petition Feb 14 10:52
zoobab01 1 million signatures Feb 14 10:52
zoobab01 replace Council Feb 14 10:52
zoobab01 by emulation of national parliaments Feb 14 10:52
schestowitz Expressing opinion by practicing rights of free speech on the Web might work Feb 14 10:52
zoobab01 even source code form? Feb 14 10:53
schestowitz 1 million signatures? Good luck with that Feb 14 10:53
schestowitz People are too busy with their Wii Feb 14 10:53
zoobab01 people are more and more online Feb 14 10:53
schestowitz They don’t even understand what it is they ought be be signing — and more importanlyu — /why/ Feb 14 10:53
zoobab01 when we did webcampaigns in 2003, we had less people online then we have now Feb 14 10:53
zoobab01 what you need is a good enemy Feb 14 10:54
schestowitz Means for dissent are hurt by new UK laws Feb 14 10:54
zoobab01 Council is perfect for that Feb 14 10:54
zoobab01 Montesquieu do not like them Feb 14 10:54
schestowitz It is now possible to harm people all arround the world to limit rights of expression Feb 14 10:54
zoobab01 Seperation of powers is their enemy Feb 14 10:54
schestowitz No, opposite Feb 14 10:54
schestowitz Unless you mean something else Feb 14 10:54
zoobab01 EU is no democracy Feb 14 10:54
schestowitz Keeping people separate and divided is a way to keep them out of the public arena Feb 14 10:55
schestowitz zoobab01: no country is democracy Feb 14 10:55
schestowitz Watch the definition Feb 14 10:55
schestowitz Democracy is a euphemism Feb 14 10:55
schestowitz Some are just closer than others to it Feb 14 10:55
zoobab01 sure, there are critics of seperation of powers Feb 14 10:55
zoobab01 but you have to start somewhere Feb 14 10:55
schestowitz Yes, indeed Feb 14 10:56
zoobab01 when things get hot, it gains traction Feb 14 10:56
zoobab01 like the Lisbon treaty in Ireland Feb 14 10:56
schestowitz Yes. Feb 14 10:56
schestowitz But they try again. Feb 14 10:57
schestowitz What <company> wants <company> gets Feb 14 10:57
schestowitz Eventually Feb 14 10:57
schestowitz Watch the OOXML corruptions galore Feb 14 10:57
schestowitz Fly in journalisms Feb 14 10:57
schestowitz Smear critics Feb 14 10:57
schestowitz Bribe people Feb 14 10:57
schestowitz Bully professors.. Feb 14 10:58
zoobab01 sure Feb 14 10:58
schestowitz Many people ought to have been locked up for the OOXML thing Feb 14 10:58
schestowitz But… only shoplifters are criminals Feb 14 10:58
schestowitz Major criminals are rich people… you’ve got to admire them and admire their judgment Feb 14 10:58
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trmanco look Feb 14 11:03
trmanco http://digg.com/linux_unix/Wine_1_1_15_Released Feb 14 11:03
trmanco http://digg.com/linux_unix/Wine_1… Feb 14 11:03
trmanco why the f*ck did this dupe hit the frontpage Feb 14 11:04
schestowitz It’s typical Feb 14 11:06
zoobab01 “Winegcc is a gcc wrapper which tries to provide a MinGW compatible compiler under Linux. This is most useful to Win32 developer” Feb 14 11:08
schestowitz Novell sold Wine out Feb 14 11:09
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zoobab01 ? Feb 14 11:23
schestowitz You don’t know? Feb 14 11:28
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MinceR how are you gentlemen !! Feb 14 13:14
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schestowitz zoobab01: Lots of news picks on the subject of software patents and far beyond them < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/1… > Feb 14 13:17
amarsh04 schestowitz, having read rms’ political blog link that you posted, I actually emailed rms about the conditions leading to the .au bushfires Feb 14 13:33
amarsh04 short story – the near extinction of ground-based marsupials lead to the build-up of underbrush that causes high-intensity fires Feb 14 13:34
schestowitz He might reply. He reads all his mail Feb 14 13:35
amarsh04 posted a reply to that pcpro.co.uk link also Feb 14 13:41
amarsh04 my mum was a zoologist, once met David Attenborough even Feb 14 13:42
amarsh04 must get some sleep soon, working in the morning Feb 14 13:44
schestowitz .BBC has a new article, “Sound future”, which I read as “sound torture”. It took me like 20 seconds to figure out the article did not match the headline because i misread it. I suppose you heard about sound torture in Guantanamo Bay. Feb 14 13:44
*schestowitz was actually very surprised the MSBBC would cover torture. Feb 14 13:45
amarsh04 I received rms’ autoreply. I already knew that he gets his email in daily bundles Feb 14 13:46
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oiaohm Amd releasing specs is about priorart. Feb 14 13:55
oiaohm One of the reason why companies should release specs on stuff. Feb 14 13:55
oiaohm http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?…  Wounder how long if this reactive armor get deployed before snipper makes person jump in front of tank. Feb 14 13:58
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schestowitz Germany military… http://www.spiegel.de/netzwe… Feb 14 14:47
schestowitz Got your message (was in queue) Feb 14 14:47
schestowitz So France is down.. now Germany… by Windows Feb 14 14:47
schestowitz Wasn’t the German army moving to GNU/Linux (gradually) Feb 14 14:48
oiaohm Funny enough Australia not effected. Feb 14 14:48
schestowitz Oh.. I see it’s the fedral forces Feb 14 14:50
oiaohm We really do need a good system break here. Feb 14 14:51
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amd-linux sorry was afk Feb 14 15:09
amd-linux but the best: Feb 14 15:09
amd-linux there is a box describing what systems are safe and which are not Feb 14 15:09
amd-linux Safe systems: Systems that do not use a Windows operating system :-))) Feb 14 15:10
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amd-linux And Spiegel Online is quite far reaching, it is the online arm of Spiegel magazine, the German version of Time magazine Feb 14 15:10
amd-linux so at least some people are getting the message Feb 14 15:11
schestowitz Yes, good magazine Feb 14 15:11
schestowitz It linked to BoycottNovell before. Feb 14 15:11
amd-linux they can easily down a website with all their traffic…. Feb 14 15:11
schestowitz Not like Digg Feb 14 15:11
amd-linux also heise is a good and reliable source Feb 14 15:11
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amd-linux right, Digg has more readers Feb 14 15:12
amd-linux Heise recently started to have quite a lot MS ads but they are still very critical Feb 14 15:12
amd-linux the guys behind heise.de are old IT “rocks”, not easy to buy them I hope that stays that way Feb 14 15:13
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trmanco http://digg.com/linux_unix/Mandriva… Feb 14 15:24
schestowitz reader says: “I really like the piece about Neelie and Steve!  Wouldn’t you have liked to be a mouse under the table at that meeting?  Hard to imagine Steve Ballmer being charming, I think he’s more than a little creepy.  Hopefully Neelie wasn’t overly impressed.” Feb 14 15:31
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toros hi Feb 14 16:31
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schestowitz Hey, what’s up? Feb 14 16:32
toros I’m just reading the article about Mono… Feb 14 16:33
schestowitz Monolight[sic]? Feb 14 16:33
toros I mean moonlight :) Feb 14 16:33
toros yepp :) Feb 14 16:33
toros I hope Silverlight will never be successfull Feb 14 16:36
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_doug http://victorsolomon.com/get-weird/… Feb 14 17:09
schestowitz “for those of you watching the sopranos on a&e, here’s what you’re missing. this is every single curse, from every single episode of the sopranos, ever.” Feb 14 17:10
schestowitz “[ Javascript required to view QuickTime movie, please turn it on and refresh this page ]“ Feb 14 17:10
schestowitz Is spying a requirement? Feb 14 17:11
schestowitz ” This content requires the QuickTime Plugin. Download QuickTime Player.” Feb 14 17:11
schestowitz WTF? Feb 14 17:11
schestowitz CTRL+W Feb 14 17:11
_doug yea .. Feb 14 17:11
zer0c00l what is sopranos Feb 14 17:11
zer0c00l yum install libquicktime helps Feb 14 17:12
_doug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sopranos Feb 14 17:12
schestowitz I could probably play it, zer0c00l. I didn’t try Feb 14 17:12
zer0c00l ok Feb 14 17:12
_doug Linux MCE .. Feb 14 17:14
_doug http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2176025… Feb 14 17:14
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schestowitz Some companies prebuild these Feb 14 17:20
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_doug Linux MCE, very impressive .. Feb 14 17:25
zer0c00l _doug is that video is in high resolution ? (google vid) Feb 14 17:26
_doug Don’t think so .. Feb 14 17:27
zer0c00l ok Feb 14 17:28
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_doug it’s a mov file .. Feb 14 17:28
zer0c00l ok i am i need of good videos on linux compiz effects Feb 14 17:31
zer0c00l most of them i got are low resolution vids Feb 14 17:32
zer0c00l *in need Feb 14 17:32
zer0c00l downloading Miro have to check some channels Feb 14 17:32
zer0c00l :) Feb 14 17:32
balzac yo Feb 14 17:35
_doug yo .. Feb 14 17:37
balzac I was wondering if anyone else was up since Roy’s in the UK Feb 14 17:38
balzac It’s almost 1pm EST Feb 14 17:38
schestowitz I was just about to disappear. Feb 14 17:39
balzac It’s bright and early for you, isn’t it? Feb 14 17:39
balzac I popped some valium and slept nicely. Feb 14 17:39
schestowitz Another record year for Chinese patent applications and grants < http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.as… > Feb 14 17:40
_doug It’s 5:46 PM here Feb 14 17:41
balzac where’s that _doug ? Feb 14 17:41
balzac oh, right, it’s later there than here. Feb 14 17:41
balzac duh Feb 14 17:41
balzac you’re six hours ahead, right? Feb 14 17:42
_doug yo … Feb 14 17:42
_doug http://flickr.com/photos/18176432@N… Feb 14 17:42
twitter EST = Z + 5 Feb 14 17:43
twitter Roy is close to zulu time. Feb 14 17:43
balzac ok Feb 14 17:44
schestowitz I’m back in 2 hours Feb 14 17:45
balzac ok Feb 14 17:45
balzac I may be around some today. I’m going to try to get some work done on websites. Feb 14 17:45
_doug http://www.worthalaugh.com/wp-cont… Feb 14 17:45
_doug beer .. uuuuugh !!! Feb 14 17:46
balzac Those plush WTC dolls would sell like hot-cakes in NYC. Feb 14 17:47
balzac actually, not so much. Feb 14 17:47
_doug WTC dolls ? Feb 14 17:48
balzac the flickr photostream Feb 14 17:48
_doug ahh, got it, brain stopping, need beer .. :) Feb 14 17:49
_doug http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtRNBHM3DR0 Feb 14 17:49
_doug balzac: ‘here’ is the UK Feb 14 17:51
balzac it must suck to be those ants in that little box Feb 14 17:51
balzac what to do… bite more of that blue stuff off and move it around Feb 14 17:53
_doug yea .. Feb 14 17:53
_doug :) Feb 14 17:53
_doug beats sitting in a cubical .. Feb 14 17:53
balzac I suppose it does Feb 14 17:53
_doug http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/bestse… Feb 14 17:54
_doug or one of these .. Feb 14 17:54
_doug http://genetics.biozentrum.uni-wuerzb… Feb 14 17:54
balzac by the end of the video, the ants have definitely made their place a bit more interesting Feb 14 17:55
_doug not much difference, I sit in a box and press leavers, and get a reward … :) Feb 14 17:55
_doug wonder why the ants do that ? Feb 14 17:55
balzac but one hopes the ant farm is not some kind of non-native ants which were dumped out, only to become an invasive species in a new place. Feb 14 17:55
balzac maybe they sweeten the blue gunk a little bit Feb 14 17:56
_doug A lot of new species come in on food containers .. Feb 14 17:56
balzac they just have an impulse to dig, but they also need something to live on Feb 14 17:56
balzac the transparent blue gunk is for the benefit of observers, not the ants Feb 14 17:57
balzac they’re probably getting sick of it Feb 14 17:57
balzac I think dilbert could quite plausibly be a Microsoft employee Feb 14 17:58
_doug Who would keep an ant farm, reminds me of that kid from ‘the far side’ Feb 14 17:58
_doug http://www.thefarside.com/ Feb 14 17:58
balzac http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=… Feb 14 17:59
balzac I think the ants which ate this gecko had more enjoyment Feb 14 17:59
_doug I saw the link, didn’t click on it, too close to lunch .. :) Feb 14 18:01
_doug finally a tech story .. Feb 14 18:02
_doug 5 Sickening Habits of Mainstream Websites Feb 14 18:02
_doug http://www.techcult.com/5-sickening-hab… Feb 14 18:02
_doug balzac: do you work/study in IT ? Feb 14 18:02
balzac yeah Feb 14 18:03
balzac man, that list was on point Feb 14 18:03
balzac those kinds of websites really do have very little respect for readers Feb 14 18:04
_doug I particularly hate those talking ads .. Feb 14 18:04
balzac beyond no respect, they treat readers as morons Feb 14 18:04
balzac they demean and insult readers Feb 14 18:04
balzac those flash pop-out ads are some of the worst Feb 14 18:05
balzac I think flash is a parasite, but I haven’t wanted to give up on youtue Feb 14 18:05
balzac youtube Feb 14 18:05
_doug I use noscript and a customized userContent.css file .. Feb 14 18:05
balzac I’m about to install lynx on my web-server Feb 14 18:05
_doug are you a microsoftie or a member of the church of Linus ? Feb 14 18:06
balzac I’m using irssi inside of gnu screen for this irc session Feb 14 18:06
balzac neither Feb 14 18:06
balzac I’m a gnu evangelist Feb 14 18:06
_doug unbeliever :) Feb 14 18:06
balzac a member of the church of emacs Feb 14 18:06
_doug why lynx ? Feb 14 18:07
balzac well, it’s the most well-known text-based browser as far as I know Feb 14 18:07
balzac I’m trying to really get into my applications which  don’t have GUIs Feb 14 18:07
_doug most modern sites are unusable in a text-based browser, yea ? Feb 14 18:08
balzac less mousing around Feb 14 18:08
balzac well, I still use FF3 all day as a web-developer and surf with it too Feb 14 18:08
balzac but I’m sure a text-based browser has its benefits Feb 14 18:08
balzac FF3 with firebug Feb 14 18:08
_doug I used Mozilla in keyboard-only mode in a college, there was no mouses as the students kept stealing them :) Feb 14 18:09
balzac emacs is my editor Feb 14 18:09
balzac some people use emacs for email, irc, calendar, organizer, etc. Feb 14 18:10
balzac but I’m not that deep into it Feb 14 18:10
_doug I have used emacs, I configured it for MS keyboard, <CTRL> ZXCV, as I was too used to it .. Feb 14 18:10
balzac yeah, the call it cua-mode Feb 14 18:10
_doug I only used it for text, not familiar with its innards .. Feb 14 18:10
balzac common user access mode, i guess Feb 14 18:10
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_doug I copied someone elses config file :) Feb 14 18:10
balzac I used cua-mode for a while, but then I learned to go without it Feb 14 18:11
balzac it was good for my transition phasse Feb 14 18:11
balzac now i use transient-mark mode, nxhtml Feb 14 18:11
_doug I can’t unlearn the MS key presses .. Feb 14 18:11
MinceR vim ftw ^_^ Feb 14 18:11
balzac you can Feb 14 18:11
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balzac I need to learn vi, just to cover my bases Feb 14 18:12
_doug I only ever use Pico Feb 14 18:12
balzac but I favor gnu tools whenever I have the choice, so I may be more inclined to use ed or nano as my light editor Feb 14 18:12
_doug Nano = Pico .. Feb 14 18:12
balzac ah Feb 14 18:12
_doug I know a few bash commands, and that’s about it … Feb 14 18:13
balzac for my gui-based simple text editor, i use leafpad Feb 14 18:13
balzac gedit is annoying as hell Feb 14 18:13
balzac ok, maybe not that bad, but annoying nonetheless Feb 14 18:14
_doug there’s a GUI version of emacs .. Feb 14 18:14
balzac i use that primarily to edit files on the server using TRAMP Feb 14 18:14
balzac but I also use emacs inside of ssh connections Feb 14 18:14
_doug what does TRAMP do that a SSH session don’t ? Feb 14 18:15
balzac you can get syntax-highlighting in emacs inside a ssh connection, but not inside gnu screen, unfortunately (not with the defualt setup) Feb 14 18:15
balzac well, TRAMP just serves as the connection (using ssh among other protocols) Feb 14 18:16
balzac I think it’s a multi-protocol bridge for emacs to talk to servers Feb 14 18:16
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balzac so you put in a ssh:user@host.tld:/dir/dir Feb 14 18:16
balzac as your connection strink Feb 14 18:17
balzac string Feb 14 18:17
_doug Even though there’s a GUI for most/every config option nowadays. I figure learning to use the console is more usefull, as the same commands work across all distros. Feb 14 18:17
balzac true Feb 14 18:17
balzac I have my emacs connection and a shell connection in an xterm which I use concurrently Feb 14 18:17
_doug lets get into a my-distro-is-better-than-your-distro war .. :) Feb 14 18:17
balzac i’m using ubuntu, but I could see myself going upstream to debian in the future Feb 14 18:18
MinceR my gui-based text editor is gvim :> Feb 14 18:18
balzac or downstream to gnewsense Feb 14 18:18
_doug I figure the best distro is the one with the bigger support forum .. Feb 14 18:19
balzac yeah, that would be debuntu Feb 14 18:19
balzac i mean debian/ubuntu Feb 14 18:19
_doug what ever does the job .. Feb 14 18:19
balzac Redhat doesn’t get as much community love Feb 14 18:19
balzac well, debian is the strongest community distro and ubuntu is it’s public face Feb 14 18:20
_doug They split off Fedora .. that may be the reason .. Feb 14 18:20
balzac ubuntu is really just a polished version of debian Feb 14 18:20
balzac well, redhat is more corporate and enterprise-oriented. Feb 14 18:20
_doug I installed kbuntu and xfce, less is more .. Feb 14 18:20
balzac they have different priorities Feb 14 18:20
balzac debian is strong in academic and scientific circles and has the strongest community of any distro Feb 14 18:21
balzac and the best package manager Feb 14 18:21
balzac imho Feb 14 18:21
_doug I was an ioen SuSE user until I got bumped off the forum .. Feb 14 18:21
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balzac suse is getting pooped on by novell Feb 14 18:22
balzac it’s sad to see a venerable distro get ruined by M$ Feb 14 18:22
balzac oh well… Feb 14 18:22
_doug Novell is gettign pooped on by MS, and paying them for the privelage .. Feb 14 18:22
balzac “Thank you sir, may I have another?” Feb 14 18:22
balzac Novell was a good company before the M$ deal Feb 14 18:23
balzac Hewlitt Packard used to be a great company Feb 14 18:23
balzac but they’ve been getting tea-bagged by M$ Feb 14 18:23
balzac I think their last CEO, Carly Fiorini, was actually working for M$ as HP’s CEO Feb 14 18:23
_doug A very bad decision .. but I can see MS buying them out, except they don’t want to go into court again .. Feb 14 18:23
balzac HP is old and venerable, but I’ve  got one of their computers at work Feb 14 18:24
balzac it has a button on the keyboard labelled “club hp” Feb 14 18:24
_doug http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/ Feb 14 18:25
balzac it has an idiotic row of consumer-grade buttons along either edge of the keyboard Feb 14 18:25
balzac I hate keyboards which have consumer buttons on them – like a button for shopping, email, etc. Feb 14 18:26
_doug I see these customized keyboards everywhere, trying to look like a mac .. Feb 14 18:26
_doug and they neveer work .. ) Feb 14 18:26
balzac I just want to ritually destroy that keyboard – tear it apart with a screw-driver and light it on fire, then post it on youtube. Feb 14 18:26
MinceR i like extra keys Feb 14 18:27
balzac I don’t like mac keyboards either Feb 14 18:27
balzac there’s a difference between backspace and delete, and each one is worth havign Feb 14 18:27
MinceR but it’s hard to find a wired(usb) low-profile keyboard with a non-compressed layout, L-shaped enter key and multimedia keys Feb 14 18:27
MinceR one that actually lasts, that is Feb 14 18:27
balzac I’ve got a particular keyboard in mind Feb 14 18:27
MinceR i’ve settled for a compressed one with no multimedia keys now Feb 14 18:27
MinceR (my KVM switch swallows multimedia keys anyway) Feb 14 18:28
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balzac http://lowendmac.com/fishkin/07/0115.html Feb 14 18:28
balzac I’m going to get one of these IBM Model M keyboards because there’s a springy mechanism that gives good resistance on every keystroke Feb 14 18:29
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balzac But there’s another keyboard which a programmer friend of mine has Feb 14 18:30
balzac It’s an ergonomic keyboard that’s robust, built with thick plastic casing and keys which will last many years of heavy use, and the key-placement was designed by this guy himself, based on statistical analysis of popular programming languages and conventions Feb 14 18:31
_doug sorry .. gtg .. Feb 14 18:31
balzac it’s solid like the IBM Model M, but the keys are layed out in concave structure Feb 14 18:31
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balzac ok, ttyl Feb 14 18:32
MinceR i prefer low-profile keyboards (but i’m starting to have my doubts about their reliability) Feb 14 18:34
balzac they’re no good Feb 14 18:35
balzac you want good resistance for each keystroke to stave off carpel tunnel syndrome Feb 14 18:35
MinceR two i had are mostly unusable because their keys are hard to depress and their resistance along the way varies wildly Feb 14 18:35
balzac I think you’re better off on a mechanical type-writer Feb 14 18:35
balzac map the keys of an old mechanical type-writer Feb 14 18:36
MinceR i don’t want good resistance because i don’t want to work hard while typing :> Feb 14 18:36
balzac whack! whack! Feb 14 18:36
balzac well, if it’s too easy, the micro-muscle control is what kills you, ultimately Feb 14 18:36
MinceR also, the O key on my laptop has come out on its own Feb 14 18:36
MinceR i did a little hacking with a piece of paper to make it stay in its place Feb 14 18:36
balzac the d key popped off my old acer notebook Feb 14 18:37
balzac i’m using an asus eee 901 currently Feb 14 18:37
balzac they keyboard is tiny Feb 14 18:37
balzac but it’s so light, I don’t really mind how cramped it is. I have big hands but I don’t have fat fingers. Feb 14 18:38
MinceR i was thinking of getting a 901 but realized that the keys are too small for me Feb 14 18:38
MinceR i’ve had getting a 1000 in mind, but i’ll wait until they bring out the ones with touch screens :) Feb 14 18:38
balzac if you hold your finger tips together in a line and they’re too broad for the asdf and jkl; keys, you gotta have a bigger model Feb 14 18:38
MinceR that’s how i checked :) Feb 14 18:39
MinceR originally i resized a photo of the keyboard on the screen and checked there, then i verified it in a shop Feb 14 18:39
balzac I just like how small this thing is, but it’s no great pleasure to type on. Feb 14 18:40
balzac it’s actually annoying, but it’s just so small and light Feb 14 18:40
balzac plus it’s all solid-state storage Feb 14 18:40
balzac the 1000 has a hard drive Feb 14 18:40
MinceR no, the 1000 has an SSD Feb 14 18:41
MinceR the 1000H has a hdd Feb 14 18:41
balzac oh, ok Feb 14 18:41
MinceR and sadly, they don’t sell the 1000 in most places here Feb 14 18:41
balzac I’ll have to check out the 1000, because I might be ok with it Feb 14 18:41
balzac I carry a very nice little mouse with it Feb 14 18:42
balzac not too small, but quite a nice mouse Feb 14 18:42
MinceR i have a Logitech Ultra-Flat keyboard now, btw Feb 14 18:42
MinceR apparently they aren’t marketing this model anymore Feb 14 18:43
balzac hmm Feb 14 18:43
balzac Well this programmer I mentioned – he’s got 8 of these keyboards he designed. Each one cost like $500 Feb 14 18:43
balzac he has them placed here and there in cities around the world where he works Feb 14 18:43
balzac I want one of those for my work station Feb 14 18:44
MinceR :) Feb 14 18:44
balzac lemme see if I can find it Feb 14 18:44
MinceR i still have my old Logitech Internet Navigator SE in case this one fails, though :> Feb 14 18:45
balzac http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltron_keyboard Feb 14 18:45
MinceR i’ve read about these once Feb 14 18:46
balzac http://www.maltron.com/maltron-kbd-dual.html Feb 14 18:46
balzac you know a guy is a serious programmer when he’s got 8 of those Feb 14 18:47
balzac well, I need to do some laundry Feb 14 18:48
balzac bbiab Feb 14 18:48
MinceR :) Feb 14 18:49
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trmanco http://www.post-issue.org/user-interface-with-multi… Feb 14 19:07
trmanco “IP Innovation L.L.C. and Technology Licensing Corporation (collectively, “Plaintiffs”) have brought a patent-infringement action against Red Hat, Inc., and Novell, Inc., alleging infringement of U.S. Patent Numbers 5,072,412; 5,533,183; and 5,394,521.” Feb 14 19:07
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balzac well, it’ll keep some lawyers busy for a while Feb 14 19:22
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trmanco https://bugs.edge.launchpad.n… Feb 14 19:58
trmanco http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support… Feb 14 20:02
trmanco http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support… Feb 14 20:05
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schestowitz >>>>       <balzac> it’s sad to see a venerable distro get ruined by M$ Feb 14 20:16
schestowitz This is true. They laid off SUSE employees as though Novell’s direction is now MS tech, not Linux. Feb 14 20:16
MinceR i’m not sure suse was that great to begin with, actually Feb 14 20:18
schestowitz It was good at the time. I used it and compared it to Ubuntu. No contest. Feb 14 20:20
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trmanco Bespin is awesome Feb 14 20:35
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schestowitz brb Feb 14 20:40
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*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 Feb 14 20:44
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schestowitz Plunder and Blunder; How the ‘Financial Experts’ Keep Screwing You < http://www.alternet.org/workplace/125421/plunder… > Feb 14 21:24
schestowitz “The financial industry proved to be more incompetent and corrupt than its worst critics could have imagined. Did people who manage multi-billion dollar portfolios in the late 1990s really believe that price-to-earnings ratios would continue rising, even when they already exceeded 30 to 1?” Feb 14 21:25
twitter blogging the demise of asus http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?o… Feb 14 21:25
schestowitz +1 Feb 14 21:27
schestowitz The Whole World Is Rioting as the Economic Crisis Worsens — Why Aren’t We? < http://www.alternet.org/workplace/124836 > America is stuck in “war on terror” mode, so it’s no time for change and rights… just “SupportTheTroops(R)” Feb 14 21:27
schestowitz http://www.alternet.org/workplace… “The daily bleeding of thousands of jobs will soon turn our economic crisis into a political crisis. The street protests, strikes and riots that have rattled France, Turkey, Greece, Ukraine, Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria and Iceland will descend on us. It is only a matter of time.” Feb 14 21:29
schestowitz “And not much time. When things start to go sour, when Barack Obama is exposed as a mortal waving a sword at a tidal wave, the United States could plunge into a long period of precarious social instability.” I watch the speech again half an hour ago.. < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjnygQ02aW4 >. It contains a few iffy parts. Feb 14 21:29
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schestowitz Heh. “Longet was convicted of criminal negligence and sentenced to 30 days in jail.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudine_Longet Feb 14 22:11
schestowitz …didn’t even know she was marries to Andy Williams. Feb 14 22:12
twitter ” Will we radically transform our system to one that protects the ordinary citizen and fosters the common good, that defies the corporate state, or will we employ the brutality and technology of our internal security and surveillance apparatus to crush all dissent?”  Uhhh, crush? Feb 14 22:30
twitter Borat Voice, “I crush you!” Feb 14 22:30
schestowitz Obama? Feb 14 22:30
twitter Borat Obama?  Oh my, that’s not the juxtaposition I had in mind. Feb 14 22:31
schestowitz Is that from the speech? Feb 14 22:32
schestowitz He didn’t write this, you know? The whole thing is just a PR campaign from the get-go. he also said something about “defeating” or whatever… in a context that suggests more imperialsm Feb 14 22:32
twitter More like CIA + FBI + Homeland defense.  No, it’s from http://www.alternet.org/workplace/125192/it… Feb 14 22:32
schestowitz Ahhh.. OK, never mind. Feb 14 22:32
schestowitz Rare rant from Jack Wallen: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com… Feb 14 22:34
twitter “[Inverted totalitarianism] finds its expression in the anonymity of the corporate state. It purports to cherish democracy, patriotism and the Constitution while cynically manipulating internal levers to subvert and thwart democratic institutions.”  Blah – there is no such thing.  Lawless power always concentrates into a single person. Feb 14 22:35
schestowitz You cannot present it that way. Feb 14 22:38
schestowitz Might CNET be sacking already? Feb 14 22:40
schestowitz They import articles from ZDNet, which can be a bad sign: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10… Feb 14 22:41
schestowitz I’d personally love it if both cnet and zdnet bit the dust like eweek. They are all Wintel press with a touch of Apple boot licking. Feb 14 22:41
twitter Jack Wallen, no too bright.  His kind of “Standards” are only important for non free software. Feb 14 22:44
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twitter ZDNet had an interesting story where they called M$’s patent game extortion. Feb 14 22:47
twitter Can’t find link here.  It’s on my laptop, which is sleeping.  I can get it if you like. Feb 14 22:48
twitter ASUS story was mod bombed http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op… Feb 14 22:50
schestowitz Wallen is an ardent Linux advocate with knowledge, so I wouldn’t knock it blindly. Feb 14 22:50
schestowitz Many articles called it extortion/racketeering/others. BN has many of these. In May -June 2007 archives Feb 14 22:51
twitter “Standardization” is an issue that comes up all the time and is mostly FUD. Feb 14 22:51
twitter It spins the strength of diversity into some kind of disadvantage because it hinders non free software like games. Feb 14 22:52
schestowitz Jack Wallen: 10 reasons why Linux will triumph over Windows < http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com… > Feb 14 22:54
schestowitz To suggest no independent implementation of sound system is to ask for monopoly and end of  expression and creativity that GPL is all about it Feb 14 22:55
twitter It’s almost as bad as that moh-ohm dude’s argument to port GNU/Linux applications to Windows.  He tries to spin the free software world’s overpowering application advantage into some kind of disadvantage.  Both come down to, “Free software will never succeed because it’s not like Windows.” Feb 14 22:55
schestowitz It’s like saying “we want everyone to have freedom of speech as long as everyone is agreeing with our assault on Iraq” Feb 14 22:55
schestowitz But that’s not freedom of speech. It’s conditional or reliant on herd/cattle effect Feb 14 22:56
twitter Distributions seem to be managing their sound systems just fine.  There are a few hangups from time to time but there are workarounds that any OEM or Vendor can take into account and fix for their customers. Feb 14 22:57
twitter Complaining about how free software is different from non free software usually misses the larger point of what a great gift free software is for everyone. Feb 14 22:58
schestowitz Non-Free software gets some things right, BUT Feb 14 22:59
twitter Ah ha.  Now you know why people love traffic cameras.  http://tech.slashdot.org/article… Feb 14 22:59
twitter every road a toll road, just like central London. Feb 14 22:59
schestowitz This assumes that you want an EMPEROR controlling your digital life and can trust him/her Feb 14 23:00
twitter What does non free software get right that can’t be done as free software? Feb 14 23:00
schestowitz So when $emperor decides no patch is needed for $flaw, then Good Luck with All That… Feb 14 23:00
schestowitz twitter: marketing under one brand Feb 14 23:00
twitter what’s good about that? Feb 14 23:01
schestowitz “Linux” is close, but not entirely helpful Feb 14 23:01
schestowitz twitter: recognition Feb 14 23:01
twitter I don’t get it. Feb 14 23:01
schestowitz But I quite like the many flavous of Linux and their different visual identity Feb 14 23:01
schestowitz That’s like a candy store Feb 14 23:01
twitter Distributions and developers know what works. Feb 14 23:01
schestowitz Microsoft is like Burget Kind Feb 14 23:01
twitter Users figure it out. Feb 14 23:01
schestowitz One flavour, one product Feb 14 23:01
schestowitz Junk. Feb 14 23:01
schestowitz *King, not Kind Feb 14 23:02
twitter That’s not really an advantage, it is the end result of them squashing everyone else. Feb 14 23:02
schestowitz People suffer frok imposed ignorance Feb 14 23:02
schestowitz Have you ever thought about the projecttons they are siubjected to in ads Feb 14 23:02
twitter Ignorance is imposed on them through massive FUD and anti-trust. Feb 14 23:02
schestowitz Just watch how imagary is used to create connotations. Feb 14 23:02
schestowitz Its nothing to do with merits of products, but more to do with fashionable imagery Feb 14 23:03
schestowitz So Mac/Apple has the Acqa cr** Feb 14 23:03
schestowitz Windows has the flip mode BS Feb 14 23:03
twitter These too are not advantages of non free software.  Indeed free software can pull the same stunts if anyone is so immoral to do so. Feb 14 23:03
schestowitz I’m not too happy with Linux being analogous with CLI or “Brown” Feb 14 23:03
twitter Who said it was? Feb 14 23:04
schestowitz The common perception Feb 14 23:04
twitter You got a study for that? Feb 14 23:04
schestowitz Microsoft shills perpetuate this Feb 14 23:04
schestowitz Trust me, I spoke to people and that’s what they hear or read Feb 14 23:04
schestowitz The MS ISVs/partners spread these lies too Feb 14 23:04
twitter Yes, they do but you can’t have both CLI and brown GUI. Feb 14 23:04
MinceR sure you can Feb 14 23:05
schestowitz Whilst Microsoft ensures that LINUX can NEVER be displayed at the shops Feb 14 23:05
MinceR open a terminal window :> Feb 14 23:05
twitter I see a funny on the way. Feb 14 23:05
schestowitz Had people seen Linux with Compiz and all, that would shatter their perceptions of a world of just PC|Mac. Feb 14 23:05
twitter They will see it.  It’s all over YouTube. Feb 14 23:05
twitter People who care get to it. Feb 14 23:05
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/mov… Feb 14 23:06
twitter Besides, GNU/Linux’s CLI tools are yet another strength that’s spun as a disadvantage.  You don’t really have to use it but it’s often the easiest way to do things. Feb 14 23:07
twitter That ease can’t be found under the primitive Mac and even worse Winblows CLIs. Feb 14 23:07
schestowitz Yes, but it’s connotations again Feb 14 23:08
schestowitz People thing of it as antiquated because they are taught to think this way Feb 14 23:08
schestowitz Asay is trolling the Cuba migration to Linux. Surprise, surprise.. Feb 14 23:09
twitter All of these things you mention are not advantages for non free software, they are advantages of a multibillion dollar advertising budget and a dedication to lies. Feb 14 23:09
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schestowitz Yes, and still.. Feb 14 23:10
schestowitz BTW, yesterday someone told me that Red Hat employees read BN :-) Feb 14 23:10
twitter If you want to say that non free software proponents are better at lying, I’ll agree. Feb 14 23:10
twitter Cool.  Go Red Hat. Feb 14 23:10
schestowitz Prop’ software = con artists Feb 14 23:11
schestowitz The Madoffs of the sw industry :-) Feb 14 23:11
schestowitz WinFS… out in 2003… some time in October Feb 14 23:11
schestowitz “I’ll pay you back, trust me…” Feb 14 23:11
schestowitz “Vista 7 will have fast boot” (2008) Feb 14 23:11
twitter I think they are more like alcohol and tobacco in the food industry. Feb 14 23:12
schestowitz “vista will be the most secure o/s ever” (2006) Feb 14 23:12
schestowitz Oh eyah… sending models down the street to -smoke- use ZUne Feb 14 23:12
twitter distributors of poison with very big mouths. Feb 14 23:12
schestowitz Or pretending that Obama uses one Feb 14 23:12
twitter Yeah, I think that was a real low point. Feb 14 23:13
twitter Organized crime. Feb 14 23:13
schestowitz it’s very interesting how Colombian farmer are driving into producing this poison or die. Feb 14 23:13
schestowitz 50 million Chinese will have died from this poison by the end of their life (terminal cause) Feb 14 23:13
schestowitz Here’s how it goes in /, Feb 14 23:14
twitter What, Coke, tobacco? Feb 14 23:14
schestowitz 1. Find something addicaive Feb 14 23:14
schestowitz 2.Create artificial wants for it Feb 14 23:14
schestowitz 3. {something with underwear} Feb 14 23:14
schestowitz 4. profit! Feb 14 23:14
schestowitz twitter: similar things… addictive substances. Feb 14 23:15
twitter 3 is supposed to be the “unpleasant part no one is able to remember.”  Lots of hard work. Feb 14 23:15
schestowitz Alcohol too is just another drug, albeit a legalised one. Feb 14 23:15
schestowitz It’s more harmful than some other drugs, too. Feb 14 23:15
schestowitz Land of the Fee: Rodeo Discovers That It Doesn’t Own The Copyright On Videos Taken By Spectators < http://techdirt.com/articles/2009… > Feb 14 23:16
twitter Really.  I wonder what the NFL will think of that. Feb 14 23:17
twitter That’s a big deal. Feb 14 23:17
twitter Music concerts too. Feb 14 23:17
twitter Wowl Feb 14 23:17
twitter That is huge. Feb 14 23:18
schestowitz Oh yeah.. concerts. Feb 14 23:20
schestowitz Maybe also those nightclub videos that Viacom took down because of their background music *rolls eyes* Feb 14 23:20
schestowitz *LOL* http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/13… Feb 14 23:23
schestowitz He has no mercy on journos Feb 14 23:23
schestowitz No bias in ZDNet??? “I am not a lawyer (IANAL), but this latest legal complaint sure seems wobbly, to me. But hey — I initially thought the Vista Capable suit (which became a class action) was wacky and misguided.” http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2027 Is this what she thinks or what she /wants/? Feb 14 23:26
schestowitz That’s what Mirosoft has mole reporters… when the company gets sued for its abuses, then all the moles discredit the critics. Feb 14 23:26
schestowitz New software would play any videogame ever created < http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16590-ne… > Feb 14 23:28
schestowitz “We are almost there it’s called Linux aint much it can’t do (in the computing world)” Feb 14 23:28
twitter http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=vi… Feb 14 23:35
twitter Roughly Drafted, what a gem. Feb 14 23:38
twitter No good in this case.  I don’t care how clever the algorithm is, software patents are bogus. Feb 14 23:42
twitter Other people have been using gestures for a long time too. Feb 14 23:43
twitter The reason iPhone works so well is not because Apple had a few good ideas that work well, or even because they made an actual invention, it’s because they took the pains to make sure their software worked well. Feb 14 23:43
twitter It’s a collection of particularly good expressions, not an invention even though it looks new to the ignorant. Feb 14 23:44
MinceR the iphone works well? Feb 14 23:45
silentivm for me, any phone which requires hacking to be unlocked doesn’t work well at all Feb 14 23:45
schestowitz iphone sucked Feb 14 23:45
silentivm i don’t see what’s so cool about it Feb 14 23:45
schestowitz They got it wrong the first time, according to Apple fans Feb 14 23:46
schestowitz Apple iPhone 3G apparently resolved some issues. Feb 14 23:46
silentivm mainly because it makes people go “aaaaah, how cute” Feb 14 23:46
schestowitz But they had a massive sort of crash at launcg Feb 14 23:46
silentivm yes Feb 14 23:46
schestowitz This doesn’t matter to those who buy iPhone like sheep Feb 14 23:46
twitter MincR, everyone that I know who owns an iPhone loves it. Feb 14 23:46
schestowitz It had the Apple logo carved onto the back, so they smiled like a schoolgirl. Feb 14 23:46
silentivm I know some Apple fanboys Feb 14 23:47
silentivm which swear that the only phone that doesn’t suck is the iPhone Feb 14 23:47
twitter These are not fanboys, they are normal users. Feb 14 23:47
schestowitz twitter: check who owns it Feb 14 23:47
twitter Most never owned a Mac. Feb 14 23:47
MinceR the iphone is a featurephone for the price of a pda/phone :> Feb 14 23:47
schestowitz It’s like saying, “many people in a church love the new testament” Feb 14 23:47
MinceR (though even featurephones tend to be locked down less) Feb 14 23:47
schestowitz Jesusphone is usually possessed and advocated by a sub-population Feb 14 23:48
schestowitz G1 looks good Feb 14 23:48
twitter no, I’ve seen a diverse population using and liking iPhone. Feb 14 23:48
schestowitz Some Apple fans like Bray chose G1 over iPhone Feb 14 23:48
MinceR twitter: why would someone whose needs can’t be served with an iphone buy one? :> Feb 14 23:48
schestowitz And I found other such examples, last of which was 5 days ago or something like that Feb 14 23:49
schestowitz MinceR: there’s the use of words like “business ready” Feb 14 23:49
schestowitz Microsoft uses the Gartner f*ks to utter this sound bite Feb 14 23:49
schestowitz It’s like TCO Feb 14 23:49
MinceR is that like “ready for the desktop”? Feb 14 23:49
MinceR :) Feb 14 23:49
twitter They like having a good portable browser, chat, email and those kinds of things.  The interface is good for them.  The device’s lack of freedom is bad for everyone. Feb 14 23:49
schestowitz In MS terms, “business ready”=can run Office Feb 14 23:49
MinceR (windows isn’t ready for the desktop; osx isn’t ready for the desktop unless as an ornament) Feb 14 23:50
schestowitz If you can’t run office, fuh-get-about-iit! Feb 14 23:50
MinceR :) Feb 14 23:50
twitter Apple’s patent attack is noxious, but the iPhone interface lives up to the hype. Feb 14 23:50
MinceR i can run office on my pda/phone but it’s horribly sucky Feb 14 23:50
twitter Office is horribly sucky. Feb 14 23:50
MinceR i haven’t seen excel mobile succeed at saving over an existing file in years. Feb 14 23:50
schestowitz twitter: other phones have those features you mentioned Feb 14 23:50
MinceR and there’s no “quit without saving”, either Feb 14 23:50
schestowitz      > The interface is good for them. Feb 14 23:51
schestowitz What does that mean? Feb 14 23:51
MinceR so it’s achieved by failing to save. Feb 14 23:51
schestowitz Look at iPhone meni Feb 14 23:51
schestowitz It’s like palm OS circa 1990s Feb 14 23:51
twitter I want gestures and other multitouch features in OpneMoko. Feb 14 23:51
schestowitz *menu Feb 14 23:51
MinceR the interface is good for them because it has a crApple logo on it. Feb 14 23:51
MinceR remember crApple fanboys don’t care about functionality Feb 14 23:51
twitter Have you used one yet MinceR? Feb 14 23:51
MinceR i haven’t Feb 14 23:51
twitter I have. Feb 14 23:51
MinceR i already know it lacks vital features i use daily. Feb 14 23:51
MinceR like copy and paste. Feb 14 23:52
MinceR or a real keyboard. Feb 14 23:52
schestowitz There’s Docs2Go but I heardly ever used it on mine Feb 14 23:52
MinceR i remember docs2go Feb 14 23:52
schestowitz it’s not suited for PDA… spreadhseets and all. Feb 14 23:52
MinceR unlike excel mobile, it could actually save :> Feb 14 23:52
MinceR spreadsheets are useful everywhere, even on pdas Feb 14 23:52
schestowitz Need keyboard, which is not very ‘on the go’ (2go) Feb 14 23:52
twitter Don’t get lost in details, MinceR.  What’s important is that Apple is claiming patents on something that works well. Feb 14 23:53
MinceR twitter: and something they didn’t invent. Feb 14 23:53
MinceR as usual. Feb 14 23:53
schestowitz Yup Feb 14 23:53
schestowitz You beat me to it Feb 14 23:53
twitter If you want those things in a free device, you need to fight software patents. Feb 14 23:53
schestowitz It has nothing to do with “works well” Feb 14 23:53
MinceR and something they don’t really use anyway Feb 14 23:53
MinceR there’s no functionality behind it, it’s just a shiny toy. Feb 14 23:53
schestowitz My toilet works well, I don’t claim ownership of bowls Feb 14 23:54
MinceR or you need to fight apple. Feb 14 23:54
twitter No, it’s a very useful and functional toy. Feb 14 23:54
schestowitz Toy.. Feb 14 23:54
schestowitz So what do iphone users buy when they grow up? Feb 14 23:54
twitter I’ve seen people surf the web, watch YouTube and text message with ease. Feb 14 23:54
MinceR schestowitz: then they die Feb 14 23:54
schestowitz Hehe Feb 14 23:54
MinceR as far as i can tell, most human beings never grow up Feb 14 23:55
schestowitz That would be Sony laptops Feb 14 23:55
MinceR they make life hell for each other (and for sentient beings like me) and then they die Feb 14 23:55
twitter When they grow up, they will demand gestures, scrolling, pinch zoom and other cool features for OpenMoko, where they might also get a hardware keyboard, cut and paste and other cool things. Feb 14 23:55
schestowitz It’s reportedly true that a guy in China due from an exploding cellphone. Poor bugger… Feb 14 23:55
schestowitz *died Feb 14 23:55
silentivm schestowitz, exploding batteries have happened here in Brazil Feb 14 23:56
silentivm but no deaths Feb 14 23:56
twitter Pinch zoom and gesture scrolling are particularly useful. Feb 14 23:56
twitter They are what makes the iPhone really work. Feb 14 23:56
schestowitz In Jpaan (IIRC) someone murdered a collague and claimed that his phone killed him Feb 14 23:56
schestowitz It’s actually a dangerous thing Feb 14 23:56
MinceR they probably are, but without actual apps, they’re useles Feb 14 23:56
MinceR s Feb 14 23:56
schestowitz It’s liike malware Feb 14 23:56
schestowitz Kill someone, blame phone Feb 14 23:56
schestowitz Crack someone’s PC, blame malware Feb 14 23:57
schestowitz Get caught with kiddie pr0n, blame “malware” Feb 14 23:57
schestowitz Lose data (or leak it), claim Windows is to blame Feb 14 23:57
twitter I’ve seen a lawyer, a medical physicist and a grocery store employee all use iPhones and love it.  Two of these had never used a Mac in their life.  The device interface really works well. Feb 14 23:58
schestowitz I’ve seen people who liked Palm Feb 14 23:58
silentivm I like Palm Feb 14 23:58
silentivm :) Feb 14 23:58
schestowitz Heck, I know people who like Windows. Feb 14 23:58
twitter I like palm too Feb 14 23:58
MinceR yay, people who needed a mobile phone could manage to use a mobile phone they paid the price of a pda/phone to get Feb 14 23:59
schestowitz I still use a Palm Feb 14 23:59
silentivm one of my friends still uses his Palm a lot Feb 14 23:59
MinceR it’s a wonder of modern technology Feb 14 23:59
twitter People who like Windows don’t know anything else. Feb 14 23:59
schestowitz Will Pre offer a smooth migration of data like calendar? Feb 14 23:59
MinceR notify me when they manage to install an app on it that wasn’t blessed by apple and got to keep their warranty. Feb 14 23:59
schestowitz More importantly, will they finally support Linux desktops? Feb 14 23:59
twitter I’d like to see gestures and pinch zoom for my PDA device. Feb 14 23:59
MinceR notify me when they manage to copy some text from a note they took with a real keyboard into an appointment. Feb 14 23:59
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