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03.03.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 3rd, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 11:27 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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hicham_ how much do they get from Microsoft? Mar 03 00:00
schestowitz That’s how Microsoft is fighting. The TomTom suit confirms that they attack now… defeat is near. Mar 03 00:00
schestowitz They tried using SCO with the copyerights case Mar 03 00:00
hicham_ novell should be banned from linux Mar 03 00:00
Balrog TomTom should not back down. Those patents are so laughable Mar 03 00:00
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Balrog do any of you know of an alternative to this? Mar 03 00:01
Balrog http://www.faronics.com/html/de… Mar 03 00:01
hicham_ we should ask Linus to ban Novell Mar 03 00:01
schestowitz Now they go softer… to patents…. beyond that they are over.. unless they make up new laws and corrupt/bamboozle politicians to accept them Mar 03 00:01
Balrog someone I know requires such software and it’s only for SUSE :( Mar 03 00:01
schestowitz hicham_: he’s careful Mar 03 00:01
schestowitz Linus’ statement is something I’ve watched for over 2 years Mar 03 00:01
hicham_ schestowitz : and what did he say? Mar 03 00:02
schestowitz He does reply to my mails but he’s no fan of isolating Novell Mar 03 00:02
schestowitz Also, he works with people like Greg K-H, whose job is at risk now Mar 03 00:02
Balrog well Novell is playing by the rules (GPL-2) so far, right? Mar 03 00:02
schestowitz Novell is firing SUSE devs en masse and Greg is working on drivers for everyone, not just Novell… so he’s ‘luxury’ to them. Mar 03 00:02
schestowitz hicham_: I need to find an interview Mar 03 00:03
Balrog these layoffs are very bad…devs are the last people that should be laid off Mar 03 00:03
schestowitz He said something about “irrational hatred” Mar 03 00:03
schestowitz I don’t hare Novell Mar 03 00:03
MrMid Couple of links to keep track on prices tomorrow http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fd… Mar 03 00:03
schestowitz He just doesn’t understand how much of a risk they are Mar 03 00:03
hicham_ it is not hatred Mar 03 00:03
schestowitz He does understand that sw patents are a huge issue Mar 03 00:03
hicham_ as you said, it is risk Mar 03 00:03
schestowitz he told ZDNet in a LinxuWorld/AU interview last year Mar 03 00:03
schestowitz I have the video Mar 03 00:03
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hicham_ Novell is just opening Linux gates to Microsoft Mar 03 00:04
hicham_ Linux doesn’t need any Microsoft infected software Mar 03 00:04
schestowitz BTW, MrMid is a friend from ‘Real Life’. He too understands what was happening and doesn’t buy this whole “stimulus” BS and “it’ll be better soon” Mar 03 00:04
schestowitz hicham_: Novell needs the money Mar 03 00:05
schestowitz I think it almost went bankrupt in 2006 Mar 03 00:05
schestowitz It was close to being delisted. Mar 03 00:05
Balrog Why did Novell buy SUSE anyway? Mar 03 00:05
schestowitz IBM Mar 03 00:06
schestowitz And lack of direction Mar 03 00:06
schestowitz They still buy companies without real purpose Mar 03 00:06
schestowitz I’ve covered all those aqcuisitions in BN over the years Mar 03 00:06
schestowitz They make little sense. It’s like a drowning man clinging onto 5 y-o kids Mar 03 00:07
Balrog new groklaw story, about SCO Mar 03 00:07
Balrog http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s… Mar 03 00:07
schestowitz “Save me.. save me… look, investors, I made moves” Mar 03 00:07
schestowitz Messman got sacked or pressured out for being too statis Mar 03 00:07
schestowitz *static Mar 03 00:07
schestowitz After he bought SuSE he couldn’t do much Mar 03 00:07
Balrog read it Mar 03 00:08
schestowitz Then came IBM’s Hovsepian’s (was COO beforehand) and worked out change… talked to Microsoft Mar 03 00:08
Balrog heh Mar 03 00:08
schestowitz Novell came TO Microsoft Mar 03 00:08
schestowitz They made quite a deal Mar 03 00:08
schestowitz Microsoft pays ~$300m (lifeline),plus another $100m later Mar 03 00:08
schestowitz But not anymore Mar 03 00:08
Balrog ms was paying novell? for what? Mar 03 00:09
schestowitz To ruin Linux Mar 03 00:09
schestowitz OK, I joke here Mar 03 00:09
schestowitz They paid Novell to promote OOXMl Mar 03 00:09
schestowitz To sign a patent deal.. Mar 03 00:10
schestowitz To ruin Red Hat (they failed at that…) Mar 03 00:10
schestowitz And so on. Mar 03 00:10
Balrog heh Mar 03 00:10
Balrog red hat is going strong Mar 03 00:10
schestowitz It seems so Mar 03 00:10
Balrog ooxml is a mess Mar 03 00:10
schestowitz For archival, yes. Mar 03 00:10
schestowitz Microsoft is aggressive about speading it Mar 03 00:11
schestowitz And harming ODF… bastardising it Mar 03 00:11
schestowitz MS-ODF vs ODF Mar 03 00:11
schestowitz Microsoft: “MS-ODF is much better… more features” Mar 03 00:11
schestowitz Novell: “use Go-OO, not OpenOffice.org” Mar 03 00:11
Balrog seems like Nintendo’s engineering isn’t great either: http://hackmii.com/2009/02/why-the-wii-wi… Mar 03 00:11
Balrog though that’s OT Mar 03 00:12
schestowitz Microsoft: “use .NET” Mar 03 00:12
Balrog OOo3 is great Mar 03 00:12
schestowitz SUSE: “Mono.NET… sehr gute!” Mar 03 00:12
schestowitz SUSE was a European project Mar 03 00:12
schestowitz Now run by Mono slackers. Mar 03 00:12
Balrog yeah. :( Mar 03 00:13
schestowitz Miguel de Icaza: ‘We had some painful experiences with C and C++, and when Microsoft came out with .NET, we said, “Yes! That is what we want.”‘ Mar 03 00:13
Balrog heh. what about Qt …. but that only recently became LGPL Mar 03 00:14
schestowitz Yes, but he said it a long time ago Mar 03 00:16
schestowitz That freedom/openness API/tollkit debate is a dead horse. not worth kicking. Mar 03 00:16
Balrog heh Mar 03 00:17
schestowitz Too many platforms, not enough writers: http://weblog.infoworld.com/editor/arch… Mar 03 00:19
schestowitz Now supporting a company that attacks its competitors using intellectual monopolies on FAT: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29462888/ Did Infobright get a visit from the lackeys of Microsoft like Walli? Mar 03 00:21
hicham_ the .Net is just a J2EE stealth Mar 03 00:23
hicham_ Microsoft was fearing that its developer will go to J2EE Mar 03 00:23
hicham_ that is why they developed .Net during three years Mar 03 00:24
hicham_ I think from 1999 to 2002 Mar 03 00:24
Balrog Developers are still going to Java Mar 03 00:24
Balrog Java is much more widespread than .NET Mar 03 00:24
hicham_ and spend on it about $3m Mar 03 00:24
hicham_ I know that Mar 03 00:24
hicham_ but Microsoft want to invade the web Mar 03 00:25
hicham_ because that it the future Mar 03 00:25
hicham_ since its big failure with windows Vista Mar 03 00:25
hicham_ Microsoft is trying to invade other markets Mar 03 00:26
Balrog well Silverlight isn’t accepted too well Mar 03 00:26
hicham_ silverlight isnt accepted at all Mar 03 00:26
Balrog and as closed as the iphone may be, its lack of plugins helps (discourage silverlight use) Mar 03 00:26
Balrog it’s probably too slow to run silverlight anyway Mar 03 00:26
hicham_ first reason is : devs are used to action script Mar 03 00:27
Balrog which the iphone and similar devices don’t support either. Mar 03 00:27
hicham_ flash in anywhere Mar 03 00:27
hicham_ it is not a big problem for adobe Mar 03 00:27
hicham_ they can do that Mar 03 00:27
hicham_ the swf format is very popular Mar 03 00:28
hicham_ there is even an open source implementation for it : gnash Mar 03 00:28
Balrog it sure is. but it’s not lasting forever Mar 03 00:28
schestowitz Mothers Against Drunk Driving Picks Orange Leap for Optimizing Constituent Management, Marketing and Fundraising < http://www.businesswire.com/portal/… >. Mar 03 00:28
Balrog it takes lots of processing power and ram Mar 03 00:28
schestowitz http://www.bermanexposed.org/ “Richard Berman has been a regular front man for business and industry in campaigns against consumer safety and environmental groups. Through his public affairs firm, Berman and Company, Berman has fought unions, Mothers Against Drunk Driving” Mar 03 00:28
schestowitz hicham_: true. Microsoft admits Silver Lie is failing Mar 03 00:29
schestowitz Poor penetration, Mar 03 00:29
schestowitz And they also bribe (incentivise) companies to adopt it Mar 03 00:30
schestowitz I.e. they lose money from having it ‘adopted’ Mar 03 00:30
schestowitz Novell helps MS though Mar 03 00:30
schestowitz it promotes Silver Lie. Mar 03 00:30
Balrog All the lecture video-capture ‘solutions’ I’ve seen use it. D: Mar 03 00:31
hicham_ good news : Dailymotion uses the ogg format in its olpc section Mar 03 00:31
hicham_ seems very promising Mar 03 00:31
hicham_ what do u think of that? Mar 03 00:31
Balrog good, but browser support isn’t where it should be Mar 03 00:33
hicham_ did u test it? Mar 03 00:33
Balrog not theirs, but some other ogg Mar 03 00:33
Balrog with the XiphQT plugins Mar 03 00:33
hicham_ firefox 3.1 has built-in support for ogg Mar 03 00:34
hicham_ did u test it? Mar 03 00:34
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Balrog seems to work Mar 03 00:44
hicham_ u just tested it now? Mar 03 00:44
Balrog yeah … in firefox Mar 03 00:44
Balrog I used it before but not with firefox Mar 03 00:45
tessier_ http://blogs.computerworld.com/… Mar 03 00:49
tessier_ Nice Mar 03 00:49
Balrog so do any of you know of an alternative to this product? Mar 03 00:49
Balrog http://www.faronics.com/html/DF… Mar 03 00:49
Balrog it reverts changes to the hard disk after reboot Mar 03 00:50
Balrog Someone I know wants to use it and it only works with SUSE Mar 03 00:50
Balrog (and an outdated version of suse) Mar 03 00:50
schestowitz tessier: Microsoft must reduce prices Mar 03 00:51
schestowitz Now they have a new jokes about some ‘cheaper’ server to “compete with Linux”. So they want to sell a crippled Widnows Server to compete with something that\s better than Windows Server Mar 03 00:51
schestowitz On sub-notebooks they impose a 3-processes limit and think it can compete? Mar 03 00:51
Balrog there’s no way people will work with such a limit Mar 03 00:52
Balrog people will *hate it* Mar 03 00:52
schestowitz They’ve lost the ability to attract developers in an age of limited budgets, thus you have people flocking to Linux skills and employers seeking them Mar 03 00:52
schestowitz Balrog: yes, Microsoft hopes they’ll upgrade to premium Windows Mar 03 00:52
schestowitz Heck, they’ll just upgrade to Linux, which is cheaper Mar 03 00:52
schestowitz Microsoft’s business decisions are a lost cause now Mar 03 00:53
schestowitz Thus they sue TomTom, trying miserably to increase the cost of Linux Mar 03 00:53
schestowitz My cousin just put up this video… http://www.youtube.com/watch… Mar 03 00:56
schestowitz It’s strange how quickly they grow. Mar 03 00:56
schestowitz Google is 73% the worth  of Microsoft now? Wow. Mar 03 01:16
hicham_ Google is good with Open Source Mar 03 01:23
hicham_ but its browser isnt open source Mar 03 01:23
schestowitz AGPL? Mar 03 01:23
schestowitz Neither is android Mar 03 01:23
hicham_ it is based on Chromium Mar 03 01:24
schestowitz Better something than nothing Mar 03 01:24
schestowitz Google hardly /attcks/ freedom,unlike Microsoft Mar 03 01:24
hicham_ yes Mar 03 01:24
schestowitz It plays safe, a little bit like IBM Mar 03 01:24
hicham_ i do agree on that Mar 03 01:24
hicham_ but the private data that they collect? Mar 03 01:24
hicham_ and the suspicious EULA with Chrome? Mar 03 01:25
schestowitz Privacy and freedom I don’t consider to be the same thing Mar 03 01:25
schestowitz If they leak your data out, that becomes an issue Mar 03 01:25
schestowitz But you don’t /have/ to use their s/w… unless peers send you a Google Docs URL or something. Mar 03 01:26
hicham_ the google offline apps will be supported by firefox Mar 03 01:26
hicham_ i think in 3.2 Mar 03 01:27
schestowitz If there comes a time when people use Google not because it’s very good but because they must (lock-in of some sorts), then it become insidious. Being a monopoly does not necessarily mean being a monopolist (or monopoly abuser). See Cisco.. Mar 03 01:27
hicham_ by the way, which OS do u use Mar 03 01:27
hicham_ ? Mar 03 01:27
schestowitz http://www.computeruser.com/articles/1… Mar 03 01:27
schestowitz I use Mandriva 2008.1 on my main machine. It’s fantastic. Mar 03 01:28
hicham_ monopoly is always a problem Mar 03 01:28
hicham_ I haven’t had a successful experience with it Mar 03 01:28
schestowitz Incompatible h/w? Mar 03 01:28
hicham_ though Mandrake used to be good for me for some time Mar 03 01:28
hicham_ yes Mar 03 01:28
schestowitz I got a machine that took everything I threw at it without a hitch Mar 03 01:29
hicham_ the main reason is my connection$ Mar 03 01:29
schestowitz I never really had any h/w issues with Linux. Mar 03 01:29
schestowitz Some people do… I never wrestled with Wi-Fi though… I also think it may be cancerous, but that’s another topci Mar 03 01:29
hicham_ WiFi is almosted resolved with ndiswrapper Mar 03 01:29
hicham_ i have an adsl usb connection Mar 03 01:30
hicham_ i struggled to get it working on linux for six months Mar 03 01:30
hicham_ i went from mandake Mar 03 01:30
hicham_ to fedora Mar 03 01:30
hicham_ to mandriva Mar 03 01:30
hicham_ and finally i landed on ubuntu Mar 03 01:30
schestowitz I want more answers about radiation issues one day. Don’t believe what they tell you. I’ve seen enough lies (“WMOD in Iraq”, “I didn’t have sex with that woman”, etc.). There’s a good talk from LEssig about it Mar 03 01:31
hicham_ in which i made it work on a month Mar 03 01:31
hicham_ radiations exists in iraq Mar 03 01:31
schestowitz http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netro… Mar 03 01:31
hicham_ i recently seen a video about a strange sickness that strikes young people Mar 03 01:31
schestowitz Worth a watch… very engaging. Mar 03 01:31
schestowitz I use Ubuntu on 3 machines of mine Mar 03 01:32
schestowitz Also on my second partition of my main PC. Mar 03 01:32
Balrog hicham_: the only issues I had were (a) trying to use legacy nvidia blobs on a current kernel and (b) helping that person with SUSE (his hardware was too new for the kernel) Mar 03 01:32
hicham_ I dont think that there is a problem with Nvidia chipset Mar 03 01:32
hicham_ it is very well supported Mar 03 01:32
Balrog no, it’s more of nvidia being slow to update the legacy driver Mar 03 01:33
Balrog even so, it’s still a blob Mar 03 01:33
hicham_ what about the open source one? Mar 03 01:33
Balrog (the open-source nv driver sucks badly and is obfuscated) Mar 03 01:33
hicham_ ok Mar 03 01:33
Balrog stuff doesn’t render right, and everything is slow Mar 03 01:33
hicham_ right now i use the open source radeon one Mar 03 01:34
Balrog a core2quad system feels like a 400MHz system loaded down Mar 03 01:34
hicham_ so i dont know about nvidia Mar 03 01:34
hicham_ i just hear that it offer better for linux than ati Mar 03 01:34
Balrog the blob is very good (performance-wise) Mar 03 01:34
Balrog though I hear they re-implement half of xorg Mar 03 01:34
Balrog but yes, it’s colsed Mar 03 01:36
Balrog closed Mar 03 01:36
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hicham1 as i said the adsl usb modem was badly supported Mar 03 01:38
hicham1 now things changed Mar 03 01:38
Balrog why use usb for adsl anyway? Mar 03 01:39
Balrog ethernet is so much easier to support Mar 03 01:39
hicham1 yes i know Mar 03 01:39
hicham1 but it is the cheapest Mar 03 01:39
Balrog :( Mar 03 01:39
hicham1 yes Mar 03 01:39
hicham1 and YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT when you subscribe with our ISP Mar 03 01:40
Balrog you can’t buy a different one?? Mar 03 01:40
Balrog what ISP is this? Mar 03 01:40
hicham1 Maroc Telecom Mar 03 01:40
Balrog (see, I want something I can hook up to a router) Mar 03 01:40
hicham1 in Morocco Mar 03 01:40
Balrog ack. Mar 03 01:41
Balrog sucks Mar 03 01:41
hicham1 you have to sell the modem Mar 03 01:41
hicham1 and then buy a new router Mar 03 01:41
hicham1 the router is better anyway Mar 03 01:41
hicham1 but they dont offer it Mar 03 01:41
Balrog heh obviously Mar 03 01:41
hicham1 i dont know either why they still force people to take the usb modem Mar 03 01:42
hicham1 i prefer ethernet too Mar 03 01:42
Balrog do they charge for it? Mar 03 01:42
hicham1 yes Mar 03 01:42
hicham1 of course Mar 03 01:42
Balrog D: Mar 03 01:42
hicham1 it is more than a router’s price Mar 03 01:42
Balrog here they throw in a ethernet/usb modem in the 25 USD ‘setup fee’ Mar 03 01:42
Balrog which is waived in many instances Mar 03 01:43
*schestowitz uses nvidia binary blobs (included in Mandriva with automatic updates). very pleased with it, except it’s binary-only Mar 03 01:43
hicham1 actually they charge $22 if you subscribe for one year Mar 03 01:43
Balrog not that bad, actually Mar 03 01:43
Balrog but still too much Mar 03 01:44
hicham1 yes Mar 03 01:44
hicham1 $22 for a usb modem Mar 03 01:44
hicham1 while a modem router is less than $20 Mar 03 01:44
Balrog yeah. :( Mar 03 01:44
hicham1 they are promoting sagem in Morocco Mar 03 01:44
hicham1 i dont understand why they developed this modem at first Mar 03 01:45
hicham1 ethernet over usb! Mar 03 01:45
hicham1 create logical interfaces and all the fuss just to use the usb interface Mar 03 01:46
hicham1 sometimes u cant understand technology Mar 03 01:46
hicham1 it is far beyond understanding Mar 03 01:46
hicham1 but anyway people made this modem work under linux Mar 03 01:46
hicham1 and it is a real victory Mar 03 01:47
hicham1 the core driver as i said is included in the kernel Mar 03 01:47
hicham1 u just have to provide the firmware Mar 03 01:47
hicham1 what is ur overall comparison of java vs .net? Mar 03 01:48
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hicham1 i see that there is no one in here Mar 03 01:49
schestowitz Java is advanced Mar 03 01:49
schestowitz And mature Mar 03 01:49
schestowitz Market around it too.. lots of it Mar 03 01:50
Balrog and java is FOSS Mar 03 01:50
schestowitz It’s GPLed Mar 03 01:50
Balrog .NET isn’t Mar 03 01:50
schestowitz Beat me to it Mar 03 01:50
hicham1 what about the performance Mar 03 01:50
Balrog performance is great Mar 03 01:50
Balrog some say it’s as good as native code Mar 03 01:50
schestowitz I’m not sure it matters much Mar 03 01:50
Balrog for certain application Mar 03 01:50
schestowitz The bottlenecks change as computers become stronger Mar 03 01:50
Balrog (the HotSpot compiler optimizes code that runs repeatedly) Mar 03 01:50
Balrog JIT-compiler that is Mar 03 01:50
schestowitz So garbage collection on a 486 ain’t the same as on a quad core Mar 03 01:51
schestowitz It becomes a negligible factor Mar 03 01:51
schestowitz Likewise with computers that nowadays come with 2GB of RAM Mar 03 01:51
Balrog 4GB… Mar 03 01:51
hicham1 it is always a problem Mar 03 01:51
schestowitz Balrog: Vista can’t even use it Mar 03 01:51
Balrog heh yeah Mar 03 01:51
schestowitz Though it needs more than 2GB in many cases Mar 03 01:52
Balrog even vista 64-bit edition can’t use it??? Mar 03 01:52
schestowitz Hitting the 64-bit barrier Mar 03 01:52
hicham1 java garbage collector it is not as efficient as python’s one Mar 03 01:52
schestowitz Oracle uses Linux mostly. Mar 03 01:52
schestowitz It needs s*loads of memory sometimes Mar 03 01:52
schestowitz 32GB Mar 03 01:52
hicham1 yes and java Mar 03 01:52
hicham1 Oracle uses Java a lot Mar 03 01:52
schestowitz Sleepycat? Mar 03 01:52
hicham1 and it has an opensource division Mar 03 01:53
schestowitz PR Mar 03 01:53
hicham1 its express edition is open source, no Mar 03 01:53
hicham1 ? Mar 03 01:53
schestowitz At least they make better fs (btrfs) for us all. Mar 03 01:53
schestowitz hicham1: Oracle?? Mar 03 01:53
hicham1 am I wrong? Mar 03 01:53
schestowitz Just gratis Mar 03 01:53
hicham1 I am not sure Mar 03 01:54
hicham1 yes, it is gratis Mar 03 01:54
schestowitz Lockin trick Mar 03 01:54
hicham1 that is sure Mar 03 01:54
schestowitz Start small for free Mar 03 01:54
schestowitz Be locked in, start paying more as you scale up.. Mar 03 01:54
schestowitz I think it’s mostly limit on processors… Mar 03 01:54
hicham1 they were offering an installer just for RHEL Mar 03 01:54
schestowitz Not libre/visibility of code Mar 03 01:54
schestowitz hicham1: Oracle and Novell never got in contact Mar 03 01:55
hicham1 Java is always visible Mar 03 01:55
schestowitz Almost nevr Mar 03 01:55
schestowitz Unlike SAP.. Mar 03 01:55
schestowitz Oracle keeps far from Microsoft and its clique. Mar 03 01:55
schestowitz Ellison can’t stand Microsoft. Mar 03 01:55
schestowitz He’s jealous of them Mar 03 01:55
schestowitz Lesser successful of the two evils. Mar 03 01:55
Balrog what’s lockin? Mar 03 01:56
schestowitz Ellison and Paul Allen still compete over the length of their yacht as though these are penises Mar 03 01:56
hicham1 Oracle want to dominate the whole market, whether it is windows, linux, mac os, … Mar 03 01:56
schestowitz They tailor them specifically to break records. Mar 03 01:56
schestowitz Oracle is a ruthless machine to make money for investors Mar 03 01:57
hicham1 that is what money do Mar 03 01:57
Balrog I meant what’s using lockin right now Mar 03 01:57
schestowitz Which you know what they say… Mar 03 01:57
hicham1 Oracle Mar 03 01:57
schestowitz Ellison: “it’s capitalism, I’m competing” Mar 03 01:57
hicham1 is trying to lock the market Mar 03 01:57
hicham1 by trapping linux users Mar 03 01:57
schestowitz Tough love.,.. love for them, tough for everyone else. Mar 03 01:57
schestowitz I think Ellison said this when he ripped off RHAT. Mar 03 01:58
hicham1 but mysql and postgresql are rude competitors Mar 03 01:58
hicham1 mysql is overwhelming the web Mar 03 01:59
hicham1 and they can’t do anything about it Mar 03 01:59
hicham1 open source is coming Mar 03 02:00
hicham1 and oracle is having great time trying to port existing Relational Databases to OO Databases Mar 03 02:00
hicham1 it is a hard task Mar 03 02:01
hicham1 what they have till now is just … Mar 03 02:01
hicham1 how do i say Mar 03 02:01
hicham1 extending sql Mar 03 02:01
hicham1 they will stay with the relational model Mar 03 02:01
balzac I want Larry Elisson’s yacht Mar 03 02:02
balzac he is a douche Mar 03 02:02
tessier_ hicham1: I’m not sure there is much of a difference between OO and relational. Mar 03 02:02
hicham1 tessier_ : are you sure? Mar 03 02:03
hicham1 have you worked with ObjectStore? Mar 03 02:03
tessier_ Didn’t I just say “I’m not sure” ? Mar 03 02:03
hicham1 ah ok Mar 03 02:04
tessier_ I’ve spent time with zodb. It was cool. I have also spent time with MySQL. That was interesting also. Now I’m working with Django and it’s ORM talking to MySQL. Now they don’t seem as different as I had thought. Soon I want to play with couchdb. Something altogether different although probably more object-like. Mar 03 02:04
schestowitz balzac: the yacht is too large. Not much use in thaty. Mar 03 02:04
hicham1 ObjectStore is 100% OO Mar 03 02:04
hicham1 it is completely written in  Java Mar 03 02:05
tessier_ I’ve read about ObjectStore also. It has been around for a long time IIRC. Mar 03 02:05
balzac Well, if I had enough money… Mar 03 02:05
tessier_ It sounds cool also. But I don’t think it’s FOSS> Mar 03 02:06
tessier_ And I’m not a big fan of Java. Mar 03 02:06
hicham1 no, it is not FOSS Mar 03 02:06
hicham1 but the way they conceived things is really neat Mar 03 02:06
tessier_ How is it fundamentally different from MySQL or zodb? Mar 03 02:06
hicham1 I havent worked with zodb Mar 03 02:07
tessier_ zodb is an OO database also. Mar 03 02:07
hicham1 but for MySql, it is a lot different Mar 03 02:07
tessier_ It’s fun and easy to use. Zope uses it. Mar 03 02:07
hicham1 everything is object in object store Mar 03 02:07
tessier_ Sounds like zope so far. Mar 03 02:07
hicham1 you store everything as object Mar 03 02:07
tessier_ Yep Mar 03 02:08
hicham1 and you dont interact with a server Mar 03 02:08
tessier_ Right Mar 03 02:08
hicham1 the application do all the stuff Mar 03 02:08
tessier_ Still sounds like zodb Mar 03 02:08
hicham1 i will look for zodb Mar 03 02:08
tessier_ And if you use an ORM with a relational db it works the same. Mar 03 02:08
hicham1 but ObjectStore is a new way in managing databases Mar 03 02:08
tessier_ How so? Mar 03 02:09
hicham1 by suppressing the need for a server Mar 03 02:09
hicham1 since they rely on java virtual machine for security Mar 03 02:09
hicham1 and to be sincere with you, i wasnt a big fan of java Mar 03 02:10
hicham1 but with the buffer overflow problem that is inherent to c/c++, i started to think that java will be a must Mar 03 02:10
hicham1 but who knows, there is also other languages Mar 03 02:11
hicham1 like python Mar 03 02:11
hicham1 it is marvellous Mar 03 02:11
hicham1 but it hasn’t the marketing campaign that java has Mar 03 02:11
hicham1 Plus the JDK isnt open source Mar 03 02:12
hicham1 it is proprietary Mar 03 02:13
tessier_ Right, python is currently my preferred language. Mar 03 02:13
hicham1 do you work a lot with Python? Mar 03 02:14
tessier_ I don’t care about marketing. Mar 03 02:14
tessier_ Yes Mar 03 02:14
hicham1 a lot of Software Experts are seeing Python as the future of programming languages Mar 03 02:14
hicham1 since java has many flaws Mar 03 02:14
hicham1 in Linux, Python is very used Mar 03 02:15
tessier_ So far I’m pretty happy with it. I’m still a fairly mediocre python programmer though. But I’m getting better. Haven’t been doing it seriously for very long. Mar 03 02:15
hicham1 what do you use at work? Mar 03 02:15
tessier_ Perl and Python. Migrating towards Python. Mar 03 02:16
hicham1 Python is much more compact than Perl Mar 03 02:16
hicham1 perl is very vast Mar 03 02:16
tessier_ Indeed. That’s one reason why I like it better. Mar 03 02:16
hicham1 and the python’s code is much more clearer Mar 03 02:17
hicham1 and shorter Mar 03 02:17
tessier_ Yep Mar 03 02:17
tessier_ http://isperldeadyet.com Mar 03 02:17
hicham1 very cool one Mar 03 02:19
hicham1 do u use linux at work a lot? Mar 03 02:19
tessier_ I use only Linux at work. Mar 03 02:20
tessier_ I have used Linux for 15 years. Mar 03 02:20
tessier_ Linux is all I have ever done for work. Mar 03 02:20
hicham1 wow Mar 03 02:20
hicham1 must be a geek in linux Mar 03 02:20
hicham1 what distro do u use? Mar 03 02:20
tessier_ http://tracyreed.org/the-resum… Mar 03 02:21
tessier_ I use Fedora on desktop and CentOS on my servers. Mar 03 02:21
hicham1 great Mar 03 02:21
hicham1 why do u think of CentOS ethically? Mar 03 02:21
schestowitz python makes the IRC logs Mar 03 02:22
hicham1 I have people say that CentOS is literally RHEL copied Mar 03 02:22
hicham1 schestowitz : welcome back Mar 03 02:22
schestowitz I’m preparing links for BN Mar 03 02:22
tessier_ hicham1: It is RHEL literally copied. RHEL is GPL and other FOSS licenses. Copying is encouraged. It’s why people use FOSS licenses. Mar 03 02:22
tessier_ I have used RHEL before also. Mar 03 02:23
tessier_ Sometimes it is the most appropriate solution for servers. Mar 03 02:23
tessier_ I like how RedHat has stayed pretty true to FOSS Mar 03 02:23
tessier_ I don’t mind sending them some money for support Mar 03 02:23
schestowitz Fedora is on a good track. Lots of Red Hat news today.. Mar 03 02:23
hicham1 why people will then buy RHEL? Mar 03 02:24
hicham1 for technical support? Mar 03 02:24
tessier_ RH is profitable too and has been for years. Mar 03 02:24
tessier_ Yes. Support. Mar 03 02:24
schestowitz Windows goes off path while Fedora gets it back together after F8/9 which had some issues Mar 03 02:24
tessier_ Yeah, 8/9 were a bit rough. 10 is working great. Mar 03 02:24
schestowitz Oracle failed to hurt Rd hat Mar 03 02:24
schestowitz It’s in the news today Mar 03 02:24
tessier_ I can’t wait until my LTSP Term 1520 shows up. Then I’ll have a decent desktop again. Mar 03 02:24
schestowitz Lots about Oracle’s Linux Mar 03 02:24
schestowitz Microsoft and Novell failed also Mar 03 02:25
hicham1 RedHat is a great company Mar 03 02:25
schestowitz Red Hat carries on growing Mar 03 02:25
schestowitz MS/Novell was intended to break Red hat Mar 03 02:25
schestowitz Actually, one of their execs mailed me some days ago Mar 03 02:25
hicham1 what did he say? Mar 03 02:25
schestowitz Nothing of significance Mar 03 02:26
schestowitz But IBMers too were keeping an eye when I wrote about OOXML Mar 03 02:26
schestowitz I’ve nothing to do with them. Mar 03 02:26
hicham1 what do u think of Canonical, the official company of Ubuntu? Mar 03 02:28
schestowitz I’m not a fan Mar 03 02:31
schestowitz Some people in Digg (well, 1 of them actually) thinks I’m shilling for them or something Mar 03 02:32
schestowitz He’s an anti-Ubuntu person attacking anyone who adds something favourable about them. it’s amusing Mar 03 02:32
schestowitz Ubuntu gets no love from long-time users… Mar 03 02:32
*tessier_ is ambivalent on Ubuntu Mar 03 02:34
hicham1 schestowitz : what do use mean by that ? Mar 03 02:35
schestowitz Many people resent Ubuntu Mar 03 02:36
hicham1 for what? Mar 03 02:36
schestowitz They hate it for its popularity, rationalised by lack of contribution to kernel space. Mar 03 02:36
hicham1 they contribute to kernel Mar 03 02:36
schestowitz Some have an anything-but-ubuntu policy Mar 03 02:36
schestowitz hicham1: I know, but perceptiually they don’t Mar 03 02:37
schestowitz Novell Greg K-H did the gig on them half a year ago Mar 03 02:37
hicham1 they have some employees who work just on the kernel Mar 03 02:37
hicham1 its forums are very active Mar 03 02:37
hicham1 i havent seen such active forums in linux Mar 03 02:38
hicham1 before Mar 03 02:38
hicham1 no distro did get that much attention Mar 03 02:38
hicham1 i agree that the marketing campaign was very good Mar 03 02:38
hicham1 how is novell going with canonical? Mar 03 02:39
schestowitz It’s weird Mar 03 02:39
schestowitz SUSE could be where Ubuntu is today on the desktop Mar 03 02:40
schestowitz They blew it Mar 03 02:40
hicham1 SUSE and its policy is drifting people away Mar 03 02:42
schestowitz I think so.. Mar 03 02:46
hicham1 but Canonical is very clever Mar 03 02:47
hicham1 Mark Shuttleworth is an experienced ex debian developer Mar 03 02:47
hicham1 so he knows how to manage a distribution Mar 03 02:47
hicham1 plus his great sense for business Mar 03 02:47
hicham1 I will add up sthg to that, this guy is already rich Mar 03 02:49
schestowitz I hope so. Mar 03 02:52
schestowitz He does allow for many to fork or derive from Ubuntu, so there’s no loss really. Mar 03 02:52
hicham1 Mandriva has done a really bad thing Mar 03 02:53
hicham1 its Founder Gael Duval get laid off Mar 03 02:53
hicham1 which is really not good Mar 03 02:53
hicham1 the people there are just ingrateful Mar 03 02:54
hicham1 everybody is sleeping in here Mar 03 02:58
schestowitz Yes, I know Mar 03 02:59
schestowitz I write to him sometimes Mar 03 02:59
schestowitz Mandriva’s CEO got canned Mar 03 02:59
schestowitz I think… Mar 03 02:59
schestowitz hicham1: not sleeping yet. I’ll do the links first, before they age Mar 03 02:59
hicham1 ok Mar 03 03:00
hicham1 what do u think about that? Mar 03 03:00
schestowitz Mandriva? Mar 03 03:01
schestowitz In general, it’s a stunning beginning of the week for Linux. Mar 03 03:01
schestowitz The economy is a PITA though. Mar 03 03:01
schestowitz Cousin writes: ‘Based on what he sees in current events, I cannot disagree with what Gerald Celente’s view of the future. A war economy bailed the U.S out of recession in the 1940’s but if we were to be more involved in military action it would surely impoverish the nation.’ Mar 03 03:01
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