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| schestowitz | Taboo | Mar 11 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Was it a place of just a place in... errr. Singapore? | Mar 11 00:00 |
| oiaohm | Gets funnier remember schestowitz no one is ment to alter the bible if they do they go to worse torment. | Mar 11 00:00 |
| oiaohm | Try finding bibles that match some time. | Mar 11 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Bibles are genocidal literature. | Mar 11 00:01 |
| schestowitz | IF anything needs to be burned it's not stuff like Das Kapital | Mar 11 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Speaking of which, Hermann's Manufacturing Consent (IIRC) was pulled by the conglomerate who also took the publisher out of business | Mar 11 00:03 |
| schestowitz | Freedom in literature improved with the Web, which also brought new dangers, not just diversity of opinion | Mar 11 00:03 |
| schestowitz | but when books are pulled over disgreement, not just being cesspool of disinformation, then it's worth paying attention to | Mar 11 00:04 |
| balzac | They're really going after Bernie Madoff hard. | Mar 11 00:20 |
| balzac | He faces up to 150 years | Mar 11 00:20 |
| balzac | I don't think it's right, personally | Mar 11 00:20 |
| balzac | that kind of crime is not the biggest problem in society | Mar 11 00:20 |
| balzac | Roy, I agree, the bible has a lot of dangerous ideology in it | Mar 11 00:21 |
| schestowitz | Sony Ponders Suing Over UK Early Death Ad < http://kotaku.com/5166914/sony-ponder... >. Can't show controllers, can they? | Mar 11 00:21 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: the bible is outdated | Mar 11 00:21 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: it's very right. | Mar 11 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Madoff is luckty | Mar 11 00:22 |
| Balrog | balzac...????? | Mar 11 00:22 |
| schestowitz | I think he should get the chair | Mar 11 00:22 |
| oiaohm | Biggest issue with most regligion text most people cannot read it in context. | Mar 11 00:22 |
| balzac | the most dangerous idea being collective accountability for various tribal groups based on the actions of members of those groups | Mar 11 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Since the very beginning. Sorry Balrog | Mar 11 00:22 |
| oiaohm | Due to language changes over time and revisions. | Mar 11 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: I'll stress myself hard to kick the habit :-( | Mar 11 00:23 |
| Balrog | I feel that the bible gets misinterpreted by most (nearly all) mainstream religions, btw | Mar 11 00:23 |
| oiaohm | Best one I like is people telling me I have to go to church. | Mar 11 00:23 |
| balzac | There's a correlation between religious beliefs and persecution of groups based on those beliefs. | Mar 11 00:23 |
| Balrog | yeah like that one, oiaohm | Mar 11 00:23 |
| oiaohm | Look at the times christ was in church. | Mar 11 00:23 |
| schestowitz | The issue is not violence and encouragement of hatred | Mar 11 00:23 |
| balzac | Some stuff in the bible can't be interpreted as anything but craziness. | Mar 11 00:23 |
| schestowitz | It's also imposed ignorance | Mar 11 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Like miracles and gods and shit | Mar 11 00:23 |
| oiaohm | Walking on water is another good mistransation. | Mar 11 00:24 |
| balzac | The belief in eternal damnation is dangerous as well because it's embracing the idea of pure godliness, pure evil, and absolute hatred | Mar 11 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Kids are being riased to first be taught about heaven and stufff... only LATER to be told about evoilution, if at all. By this stage, they are either confused or too brainwashed to believe the truth | Mar 11 00:24 |
| oiaohm | Christ never did walk on water. | Mar 11 00:24 |
| balzac | heaven, hell, judgement, eternal salvation or damnation - pure craziness | Mar 11 00:24 |
| schestowitz | No wonder they'll believe some miracle will save the atmosphere | Mar 11 00:24 |
| oiaohm | He walked beside water. | Mar 11 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Or that the depression is "god punishing us for abortions" | Mar 11 00:24 |
| oiaohm | That is funny that one. | Mar 11 00:25 |
| balzac | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ <--- look at the top story about bernie madoff | Mar 11 00:25 |
| balzac | he's been compared to Jeffrey Dahmer in the NY Times | Mar 11 00:25 |
| oiaohm | Bible forbids killing yet if its required to save someones live its tollerated. | Mar 11 00:26 |
| balzac | really? a serial murderer? | Mar 11 00:26 |
| schestowitz | Let me find some crazy lunattic video I found the other day | Mar 11 00:26 |
| balzac | oiaohm: the bible has lots of conflicting information | Mar 11 00:26 |
| schestowitz | balzac: madoff caused more damage | Mar 11 00:26 |
| balzac | "information" is the wrong word. | Mar 11 00:26 |
| schestowitz | Than many murderers combined | Mar 11 00:26 |
| balzac | Roy, I disagree | Mar 11 00:26 |
| oiaohm | Also you have to remember the currnet day bible was edited about a 100 years after christ. | Mar 11 00:26 |
| schestowitz | I'ma huge fan of cracking down on white-collar crime | Mar 11 00:26 |
| schestowitz | Although intent varies | Mar 11 00:26 |
| schestowitz | They knew what they did | Mar 11 00:27 |
| balzac | you can't underestimate the amount of negativity released by one violent crime | Mar 11 00:27 |
| schestowitz | And the question is, who was more harmful to civilisation? | Mar 11 00:27 |
| schestowitz | MinceR (asleep) would agree, I think | Mar 11 00:27 |
| balzac | money crimes aren't the most serious, they're abstract | Mar 11 00:27 |
| oiaohm | Really balzac | Mar 11 00:27 |
| schestowitz | balzac: some murderes do this due to social conditions | Mar 11 00:27 |
| schestowitz | Prostitution likewise | Mar 11 00:27 |
| balzac | I'd go easier on a fraudster than a violent criminal who beats you and takes your wallet | Mar 11 00:27 |
| oiaohm | That is the stupid thing Money crimes can do major damage. | Mar 11 00:27 |
| schestowitz | They don't sell themselves because they want to | Mar 11 00:27 |
| schestowitz | Farmers in Colombia don't grow plants for drugs because they want to | Mar 11 00:28 |
| schestowitz | They'd starve if they don't | Mar 11 00:28 |
| oiaohm | balzac some how I would prefer beat up and still having a job. | Mar 11 00:28 |
| schestowitz | So you must remove conditions under which this is mandatory | Mar 11 00:28 |
| schestowitz | The US is actually pushing Colombian into making drugs | Mar 11 00:28 |
| oiaohm | To fraudster taking on the money and leaving me without a job or food. | Mar 11 00:28 |
| schestowitz | Attacking them with chemical weapons and all. | Mar 11 00:28 |
| balzac | I would prefer to be the victim of fraud than aggravated assault by a mugger | Mar 11 00:29 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: 100 years only? | Mar 11 00:29 |
| balzac | one violent crime can give you huge medical bills | Mar 11 00:29 |
| schestowitz | edited? | Mar 11 00:29 |
| balzac | Bush is a violent criminal | Mar 11 00:29 |
| oiaohm | That was first edit by the romans schestowitz | Mar 11 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Wasn't it made by the scrolls or something? | Mar 11 00:29 |
| balzac | Bernie Madoff is Gandhi compare to Bush | Mar 11 00:29 |
| oiaohm | Note edited by non christians for popluation control. | Mar 11 00:29 |
| schestowitz | balzac: money crime can cause murder | Mar 11 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Wait until people lose their houses and blow neighbours with shotguns | Mar 11 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Poverty stems viiolence | Mar 11 00:30 |
| oiaohm | balzac I did not say you were the victim. | Mar 11 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Corruption steams poverty | Mar 11 00:30 |
| schestowitz | *steams | Mar 11 00:30 |
| balzac | roy, it can create more stress which raises the likelihood of murder, but it cannot be said to directly cause murder. Murderers cause murder. | Mar 11 00:30 |
| schestowitz | *Seeds rather | Mar 11 00:30 |
| oiaohm | I have had it where the victim of the fraud was my boss. | Mar 11 00:30 |
| balzac | witholding water from people dying of thirst is more violent than emptying a bank account | Mar 11 00:30 |
| schestowitz | balzac: some muggers have no choice | Mar 11 00:31 |
| oiaohm | I have been assaulted as well. Finding a job is harder than healing at the moment. | Mar 11 00:31 |
| schestowitz | They have no food | Mar 11 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Ask about conditions again | Mar 11 00:31 |
| schestowitz | RMS wrote the other day about prostititution in Iraq | Mar 11 00:31 |
| schestowitz | The women have no choice | Mar 11 00:31 |
| balzac | Roy, a mugger can be violent or just use the threat of violence, not actually prepared to use violence. | Mar 11 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Because criminals led by Bush attacked an almsost-modern country | Mar 11 00:31 |
| schestowitz | They drove them into miserable conditions | Mar 11 00:31 |
| balzac | Bush really should face the full force of the law. | Mar 11 00:32 |
| schestowitz | So some commits suicide | Mar 11 00:32 |
| schestowitz | Some drive off the invaders | Mar 11 00:32 |
| balzac | Madoff should get 10 years maybe. Bush should get 1000 years. | Mar 11 00:32 |
| schestowitz | Others must sell their bodies to merely survice | Mar 11 00:32 |
| oiaohm | Lot of USA army needs better training. | Mar 11 00:32 |
| schestowitz | The Big Crime led tio harsh social conditions | Mar 11 00:32 |
| oiaohm | It stupid over there lot of USA solider are doped up holding automatic weapons. | Mar 11 00:32 |
| balzac | I'd say Karl Rove is a much worse criminal than Madoff | Mar 11 00:32 |
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| balzac | pro war pundits are worse than madoff | Mar 11 00:33 |
| oiaohm | Drug up solider with weapons is likely to shot people who are not a threat. | Mar 11 00:33 |
| schestowitz | balzac: what's the difference? | Mar 11 00:33 |
| balzac | Bill and Hillary Clinton did more damage than Madoff by supporting Bush's war in Iraq | Mar 11 00:33 |
| oiaohm | Or even kill his own team mates. | Mar 11 00:33 |
| schestowitz | Madoff and Bush both committed huge crimes... from their desks | Mar 11 00:33 |
| schestowitz | No expression of remorse for ages | Mar 11 00:33 |
| balzac | Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh - these guys can be compared to the likes of Herman Georing | Mar 11 00:33 |
| schestowitz | Same with Microsoft BTW, but we won't go into that ATM | Mar 11 00:34 |
| oiaohm | Lets look at the basics of the iraq war. | Mar 11 00:34 |
| schestowitz | People like Kempin for example | Mar 11 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Intel too was bullying companies | Mar 11 00:34 |
| oiaohm | Number 1 no one plained how to handle the land after they had it. | Mar 11 00:34 |
| schestowitz | They drive AMD almost out of business using fraud | Mar 11 00:34 |
| oiaohm | It was sposte to be magical. | Mar 11 00:34 |
| balzac | incitement for mass-death atrocities is far worse than financial fraud | Mar 11 00:34 |
| oiaohm | Problem is not bush alone its his generals. | Mar 11 00:34 |
| balzac | many of them would be culpable as well | Mar 11 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Yes, them too | Mar 11 00:34 |
| oiaohm | Guess what the gernerals who were at the top when bush was in still is. | Mar 11 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Pentagon deceived them | Mar 11 00:35 |
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| schestowitz | Likewise in Israel at the moment | Mar 11 00:35 |
| schestowitz | They need to find the crooks who organised the war | Mar 11 00:35 |
| balzac | I think Olmert fits the definition of a war criminal | Mar 11 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Like in the white house, effort goes into hiding the plotters | Mar 11 00:35 |
| oiaohm | No matter how dumb the pres orders are messes should not happen if the others under him do the right thing. | Mar 11 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Conspirators if you like | Mar 11 00:35 |
| oiaohm | Its like the first iraq war. | Mar 11 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Pointing fingers in all directions to deflect blame | Mar 11 00:35 |
| oiaohm | They were in striking distance without doing much damage and they were ordered to pull back. | Mar 11 00:36 |
| balzac | Aerial bombardment of beirut and gaza based on border skirmishes - that's outrageous | Mar 11 00:36 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 11 00:36 |
| balzac | the whole population of beruit and gaza were held responsible for the actions of a few militants on the border of Israel | Mar 11 00:36 |
| oiaohm | There is also good example of why USA solders need retraining. | Mar 11 00:36 |
| balzac | the whole military needs modernized rules of engagement | Mar 11 00:37 |
| schestowitz | haha. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ I love the picture | Mar 11 00:37 |
| oiaohm | How do you put blocks of C4 on the beach to simulater ships firing. | Mar 11 00:37 |
| schestowitz | http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/675... | Mar 11 00:37 |
| balzac | Roy, I think it's over the top | Mar 11 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Like in Batman | Mar 11 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Who's Robin? Stanford? | Mar 11 00:37 |
| schestowitz | With another $8 billion fraud... | Mar 11 00:37 |
| oiaohm | USA soldiers swam up to the beach and manually placed them. | Mar 11 00:37 |
| oiaohm | Australian soliders used model hover crafts. | Mar 11 00:37 |
| oiaohm | So solider was never put in harms way. | Mar 11 00:37 |
| balzac | I think people take money way too seriously | Mar 11 00:38 |
| oiaohm | Same with setting up a road block. | Mar 11 00:38 |
| schestowitz | You think? | Mar 11 00:38 |
| schestowitz | There are impacts | Mar 11 00:38 |
| oiaohm | Australian road block. | Mar 11 00:38 |
| schestowitz | Money to rich people means little | Mar 11 00:38 |
| balzac | if you lose all your money, it's the stinginess of everyone else which kills you, not the lack of money | Mar 11 00:38 |
| schestowitz | It's a game, a scoreboard | Mar 11 00:38 |
| schestowitz | To others it may mean sleeping on a bench in 20 dgrees Fahrenheit. | Mar 11 00:38 |
| oiaohm | Snipper from range with a transmitting cam at road block and a radio and order the person with car to inspect there own car. | Mar 11 00:39 |
| balzac | money should be seen as a way of distributing opportunity and facilitating prosperous enterprise, not as a means of driving people into an early grave | Mar 11 00:39 |
| oiaohm | Usa soldiers directly inspect. | Mar 11 00:39 |
| schestowitz | The type of stuff that makes them what you call "Criminals" because they might shoplift or assault someone at a shop | Mar 11 00:39 |
| oiaohm | See a bad trend here. | Mar 11 00:39 |
| oiaohm | USA people cannot work out why they have so many dead soliders. | Mar 11 00:39 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: aye | Mar 11 00:39 |
| oiaohm | There soliders are idiots. | Mar 11 00:39 |
| schestowitz | They still count just casualties on one side | Mar 11 00:40 |
| schestowitz | Here's the funny thing | Mar 11 00:40 |
| schestowitz | They compare number of US _soldiers_ who dies in Iraw and compare that to 9/11 | Mar 11 00:40 |
| schestowitz | Since when is Iraq responsible for 9/11? | Mar 11 00:40 |
| balzac | I think Madoff is being unjustifiably persecute, scapegoated. What about the CEOs of Meryll Lynch, AIG, Bank of America, etc? | Mar 11 00:40 |
| oiaohm | Australians are shocked by even a single solider loss. | Mar 11 00:41 |
| schestowitz | And what happened to those million+ Iraqis who were murdered for resisting invasion or just for staying at home when a bomb fell? | Mar 11 00:41 |
| balzac | They're practically crucifying (excuse the harsh analogy) Bernie Madoff, but these other guys are walking away with so much money, and they're really not so different. | Mar 11 00:41 |
| schestowitz | I've heard stories from friends who lived near | Mar 11 00:41 |
| oiaohm | Because for us to loss a solider something has to have gone wrong. | Mar 11 00:41 |
| schestowitz | Shells falling on their friends' families... | Mar 11 00:41 |
| schestowitz | balzac: agreed. Madoff is one among many | Mar 11 00:41 |
| schestowitz | They should start fishing for the rest | Mar 11 00:41 |
| balzac | I see Bernie Madoff as an unlucky gambler who played a little more fast and loose than many, now the gangsters are taking off into the nevada desert to put him in a shallow grave | Mar 11 00:41 |
| schestowitz | They should also pay Microsoft a visit | Mar 11 00:42 |
| balzac | he's not the only guilty guy, and probably not the most guilty | Mar 11 00:42 |
| oiaohm | Australian solders got all the targets that were not to be destroyed in the iraq war. | Mar 11 00:42 |
| schestowitz | More people start seeing (and talking) about what's going on there, financially. | Mar 11 00:42 |
| oiaohm | Because USA soliders could not be trusted with them. | Mar 11 00:42 |
| balzac | Eli Weisel said he can't forgive Madoff | Mar 11 00:42 |
| schestowitz | balzac: let them watch (Madoff) and learn | Mar 11 00:42 |
| oiaohm | Super sonic booming buildings is extreamly effective. | Mar 11 00:42 |
| balzac | ok fine, don't forgive Madoff | Mar 11 00:42 |
| schestowitz | But I wish they didn't do a presentation but instead jailed them all | Mar 11 00:42 |
| schestowitz | All the crooks | Mar 11 00:42 |
| balzac | that's a serious condemnation from a holocaust survivor | Mar 11 00:42 |
| schestowitz | Which is unlikely | Mar 11 00:43 |
| oiaohm | Also non leathal other than broken ear drums. | Mar 11 00:43 |
| schestowitz | It's easier to fish just one person | Mar 11 00:43 |
| schestowitz | Who is Weisel? | Mar 11 00:43 |
| balzac | but why were there charities placing their money into a hedge fund instead of a bank account? | Mar 11 00:43 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... | Mar 11 00:43 |
| schestowitz | I see... | Mar 11 00:43 |
| balzac | Apparently Madoff cost some Jewish charities a lot of money, in fact, wiped some of them out financially | Mar 11 00:44 |
| oiaohm | Even charities have income presures and greed can take over. | Mar 11 00:44 |
| balzac | But why were charities giving their funds to a gambler instead of a legitimate banker? | Mar 11 00:44 |
| oiaohm | Human greed balzac | Mar 11 00:44 |
| balzac | Madoff didn't get bailed out and BushCo wrecked our economy | Mar 11 00:44 |
| oiaohm | Nothing makes charities magically protected from greed. | Mar 11 00:45 |
| oiaohm | Ie I want to do more so I need more money. base form of greed to be particular. | Mar 11 00:45 |
| balzac | you might say 68 billion is nothing to sneeze at, and yet I'd sneeze at $68B when you compare it to the multi-trillion dollar racket of the Iraq war defense contractors | Mar 11 00:45 |
| balzac | and the trillion dollar bailout | Mar 11 00:45 |
| balzac | Bernie Madoff was too small. That's why he's getting "crucified". If he were "too big to fail" like Bank of America, his fraud would have been described as bad luck and he'd have been bailed out. | Mar 11 00:46 |
| oiaohm | Defense contractors losses (mercs) USA don't count. | Mar 11 00:46 |
| schestowitz | balzac: "too small"? LOL | Mar 11 00:47 |
| oiaohm | Really nothing is too big to fail. | Mar 11 00:47 |
| schestowitz | What kind of message does that send? | Mar 11 00:47 |
| balzac | If Meryll Lynch or AIG were not bailed out, their shareholders would have cried out for the CEOs blood | Mar 11 00:47 |
| oiaohm | MS guys make the same argument about Microsoft. | Mar 11 00:47 |
| schestowitz | That only if your looting exceeds a trillion then you'll get punished? | Mar 11 00:47 |
| balzac | But a smart share-holder would be asking, why isn't Madoff's company getting bailed out? | Mar 11 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Bailout is corruption | Mar 11 00:47 |
| balzac | If you want to get revenge instead of a bailout, that's not very pragmatic. | Mar 11 00:48 |
| schestowitz | In and of itself | Mar 11 00:48 |
| balzac | I agree | Mar 11 00:48 |
| balzac | But what would happen if no bailouts were done? | Mar 11 00:48 |
| schestowitz | You pay the bills | Mar 11 00:48 |
| schestowitz | The CEOs get bonuses | Mar 11 00:48 |
| schestowitz | You pay for them now | Mar 11 00:48 |
| schestowitz | Deferral | Mar 11 00:48 |
| schestowitz | And save their asses | Mar 11 00:48 |
| balzac | Liquidate those CEO swiss bank accounts | Mar 11 00:48 |
| schestowitz | But as one recent TV show said, it's a "bankrupt state" | Mar 11 00:48 |
| schestowitz | Not company | Mar 11 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Satte | Mar 11 00:49 |
| schestowitz | I wodner what happened in Switzerland | Mar 11 00:49 |
| balzac | Roy, if your fraud exceeds a trillion, you _don't_ get punished | Mar 11 00:49 |
| schestowitz | The whole country was 'built' on banking (i.e. funny money/numbers) | Mar 11 00:49 |
| schestowitz | I doubt many people go skiing these days | Mar 11 00:49 |
| balzac | if your fraud is less than 100 billion, you might get in trouble | Mar 11 00:49 |
| schestowitz | I was in Switzerland like 7 times. | Mar 11 00:49 |
| schestowitz | balzac: you joke, right? | Mar 11 00:50 |
| balzac | Bush's fraud was multi-trillions | Mar 11 00:50 |
| schestowitz | How many people can even trade these numbers? | Mar 11 00:50 |
| balzac | is he getting punished? | Mar 11 00:50 |
| balzac | Not joking | Mar 11 00:50 |
| schestowitz | The madoffocker could deal with this because of trust... because he used to be nasdaq chairman. | Mar 11 00:50 |
| oiaohm | Idea of a bail out only works while you have the money do it it. | Mar 11 00:50 |
| schestowitz | balzac: so punish just one person? | Mar 11 00:50 |
| schestowitz | Bush? | Mar 11 00:51 |
| schestowitz | He was part of a large ring by the way. | Mar 11 00:51 |
| oiaohm | If another shock wave hits the usa they are basically sunk. | Mar 11 00:51 |
| balzac | I'm just saying, they're doing to Madoff what was done to Martha Stewart - disproportional punishment, scape-goating, theater for the angry masses while worse criminals are quitely chuckling. | Mar 11 00:51 |
| schestowitz | Including Dick and the Pentagon | Mar 11 00:51 |
| schestowitz | And others | Mar 11 00:51 |
| schestowitz | Like the wealthy low-profile families | Mar 11 00:51 |
| schestowitz | Bush was 'ring leader' or spokesperson | Mar 11 00:51 |
| schestowitz | balzac: if they want another Marhta, they should go to Microsoft | Mar 11 00:52 |
| schestowitz | Robert Bach | Mar 11 00:52 |
| schestowitz | Criminal, inside-trading | Mar 11 00:52 |
| schestowitz | Substantial evidence | Mar 11 00:52 |
| schestowitz | The SEC ignored | Mar 11 00:52 |
| schestowitz | As usual | Mar 11 00:52 |
| schestowitz | It's also people like that who should be sent to prison | Mar 11 00:52 |
| schestowitz | People like me 'yelled' about it on the net | Mar 11 00:52 |
| schestowitz | But who to? | Mar 11 00:52 |
| schestowitz | SEC? | Mar 11 00:53 |
| schestowitz | SEC is a joke | Mar 11 00:53 |
| schestowitz | It also let SCO and NOVL off the hook | Mar 11 00:53 |
| schestowitz | Did you see the jokester who runs the SEC? | Mar 11 00:53 |
| balzac | Elliot Spitzer (patronizing prostitutes), Bill Clinton (lewinsky scandal), Mark Cuban (insider trading), Martha Stewart (insider trading), Madoff (massive financial fraud) - these are the social liberals being crucified for small crimes when you compare them to Dick Cheney & George Bush(war crimes, election theft, treason, torture), Rumsfeld, Erik Prince (Blackwater CEO), | Mar 11 00:53 |
| schestowitz | He got sacked for all I can gather... read it in the paper edition of WSJ back in October. | Mar 11 00:53 |
| schestowitz | Agreed | Mar 11 00:54 |
| schestowitz | Yes, Erik Prince haha... | Mar 11 00:54 |
| balzac | Roy, I'm just trying to keep things in perspective. Madoff is being threatened with 150 years, compared to Ted Bundy, and held accountable for something which is systemic. | Mar 11 00:54 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archiv... | Mar 11 00:54 |
| balzac | Erik Prince, billionaire, christo-fascist warlord/war-criminal | Mar 11 00:55 |
| balzac | Erik Prince whose goons actually have come into armed conflict with the US military | Mar 11 00:55 |
| schestowitz | MinceR has stronger opinions | Mar 11 00:55 |
| schestowitz | He'd say, why give them time? | Mar 11 00:55 |
| balzac | whose goons get paid 10x or 20x more than US military | Mar 11 00:55 |
| schestowitz | Just dispose of them one way or another. | Mar 11 00:55 |
| schestowitz | It's a big planet | Mar 11 00:55 |
| schestowitz | We're already a colossal civilisation | Mar 11 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Bad genes be damned | Mar 11 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Behaviour wise | Mar 11 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Judge people by their act | Mar 11 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Make them honest | Mar 11 00:56 |
| balzac | I think Mincer is too vindictive when discussing the appropriate punishment for software crooks | Mar 11 00:56 |
| balzac | I'm even less vindictive than you are, actually, when it comes to Bill Gates and friends | Mar 11 00:57 |
| balzac | I think they're just not nearly as bad as Bush and his war promoting pundit clas | Mar 11 00:57 |
| balzac | class | Mar 11 00:57 |
| balzac | violent crimes release so much negative emotion, non-violent money crimes and software crimes can't even compare. | Mar 11 00:58 |
| schestowitz | There's a bigger thing orchestrated in the latter case | Mar 11 00:58 |
| schestowitz | Bush is also being deceived | Mar 11 00:58 |
| schestowitz | There are people driving the invasion for profit | Mar 11 00:58 |
| schestowitz | It's them who can poison the mind of people below them | Mar 11 00:58 |
| schestowitz | (bush is /below// many people) | Mar 11 00:59 |
| schestowitz | He takes commands from above, though not people you'd see and not directly wnyway | Mar 11 00:59 |
| balzac | Bush executed 162 people as governor of Texas and caused the deaths of perhaps 1,000,000+ Iraqis, thousands of American military, 10s of thousands of US maimed for life. | Mar 11 00:59 |
| balzac | He is the most violent criminal on earth | Mar 11 00:59 |
| schestowitz | Murdoch too is more powerful than any US president and like a zombie, he never rots after 4/8 years. He;s enertrnally rotten : ) | Mar 11 01:00 |
| schestowitz | *eternally | Mar 11 01:00 |
| balzac | the most dead, the most injured, the most personally responsible for it. | Mar 11 01:00 |
| schestowitz | Let me show you something | Mar 11 01:00 |
| balzac | Murdoch is most terrible. Far, far worse than Bernie Madoff. | Mar 11 01:00 |
| schestowitz | Speaking of Bush's deaths | Mar 11 01:00 |
| balzac | More evil by an order of magnitude than Madoff. | Mar 11 01:00 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/wat... | Mar 11 01:00 |
| balzac | Rupert Murdoch is vile, ancient, and powerful like Cthulhu | Mar 11 01:01 |
| schestowitz | Watch how arrogant and rude he is | Mar 11 01:01 |
| balzac | I bet his son and his trophy wife have been praying for him to kick the bucket for years. | Mar 11 01:01 |
| balzac | that was a great interview | Mar 11 01:02 |
| balzac | Ronald Reagan was far worse than Madoff | Mar 11 01:02 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 11 01:03 |
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| schestowitz | From what I've learned anyway | Mar 11 01:03 |
| schestowitz | We have three Balrogs | Mar 11 01:03 |
| balzac | I would compare Madoff to Bill Clinton for the level of wickedness as white-collar immoralists | Mar 11 01:03 |
| balzac | But Madoff was a business man, not the Commander in Chief. He never cause a Waco, never bombarded a nation's capital, etc. | Mar 11 01:04 |
| oiaohm | Again USA solider losses. Lot caused by poor training. | Mar 11 01:04 |
| balzac | Bill Clinton did serious damage to our industrial production capacity by signing bad trade deals which decimated our work force. | Mar 11 01:04 |
| balzac | Also, Clinton continued the hypocritical drug war. | Mar 11 01:05 |
| oiaohm | USA has about the same attuide as the britsh had throw enough numbers at a problem win. | Mar 11 01:05 |
| balzac | Not to mention those years of sanctions on Iraq. | Mar 11 01:05 |
| oiaohm | Does not work that way. | Mar 11 01:05 |
| balzac | brutal years of sanction | Mar 11 01:05 |
| balzac | Barry McCaffrey and drug-warriors like him are worse than madoff | Mar 11 01:05 |
| oiaohm | Well trained soliders can take on poorly trained soliders and still win with 10 to 1 odds. | Mar 11 01:06 |
| oiaohm | Some cases even higher. | Mar 11 01:06 |
| balzac | Throwing harmess people into prison to be given the Abu-Graib anal-probing over something silly like Marijana | Mar 11 01:06 |
| balzac | god damn the drug-hypocrites | Mar 11 01:06 |
| balzac | Far worse than Madoff by an order of Magnitude | Mar 11 01:06 |
| oiaohm | Marijana is not exactly harmless. | Mar 11 01:07 |
| balzac | count me as a Bernie Madoff public defender because it's bullshit to stigmatize him as if he's the worst person in the world while so many more vile people walk around. | Mar 11 01:07 |
| oiaohm | It takes away people long term memories over time. | Mar 11 01:07 |
| balzac | oiaohm: it is harmless | Mar 11 01:07 |
| balzac | Probably more harmless than excessive salt in your diet | Mar 11 01:08 |
| oiaohm | Again depends on how you define harmless. | Mar 11 01:08 |
| balzac | oiaohm: if they over-indulge, but your memory comes back in short order if you stop indulging | Mar 11 01:08 |
| *Balrog__ has quit () | Mar 11 01:08 | |
| balzac | Alcohol is far worse | Mar 11 01:08 |
| oiaohm | No over-indulge loss is perminate. | Mar 11 01:09 |
| oiaohm | It is very much like Alcohol. | Mar 11 01:09 |
| balzac | I don't think you know much about it. | Mar 11 01:09 |
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| balzac | My dad wrote a book on marijuana and he's smoked 2 joints a day for the last 35 years, on average. | Mar 11 01:09 |
| balzac | He was more harmed by his doctors than marijuana | Mar 11 01:09 |
| oiaohm | You over-indulge on Alcohol you mind never returns to where it was before. | Mar 11 01:10 |
| balzac | The FDA let vioxx get through | Mar 11 01:10 |
| oiaohm | Same with marijuana | Mar 11 01:10 |
| balzac | his eye doctor ruined his vision in one eye | Mar 11 01:10 |
| oiaohm | Also dna is a factor. | Mar 11 01:10 |
| balzac | oiaohm: marijuana is _very_ different from alcohol | Mar 11 01:10 |
| oiaohm | Different section of mind effected. | Mar 11 01:10 |
| oiaohm | But it still can have perminate effects. | Mar 11 01:11 |
| balzac | If my dad had stayed away from his doctors prescriptions and stuck with his marijuana, he'd be in far better shape today. | Mar 11 01:11 |
| balzac | his mistake was trusting mainstream medicine and the FDA's approval of nasty drugs | Mar 11 01:11 |
| oiaohm | Another case of a person presume just because something is approved its harmless. | Mar 11 01:11 |
| balzac | I told him his doctors were dangerous to his health because the medical establishment is about as incompetent on average as journalists are. | Mar 11 01:12 |
| balzac | they're bound up in group-think and they'll perscribe some really terrible drugs | Mar 11 01:12 |
| balzac | proscribe | Mar 11 01:12 |
| oiaohm | Marijuana depend on how its prepaird procudes two different drugs. | Mar 11 01:12 |
| oiaohm | Smoking produces a drug that gets you high. | Mar 11 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Cooking it at the right temp Produces another drug that is a painkiller of all painkillers. | Mar 11 01:13 |
| balzac | I recommend both | Mar 11 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Complete numbs the skin. | Mar 11 01:13 |
| balzac | but not in excess | Mar 11 01:13 |
| balzac | but I'd let people wreck themselves with the most potent drugs if i were in charge. Who are people to dictate to eachother on personal lifestyle choices? | Mar 11 01:14 |
| balzac | what ever happened to the idea of American liberty? | Mar 11 01:14 |
| oiaohm | The drug that can get you high from marijuana is not safe for particallar people. | Mar 11 01:14 |
| balzac | so, they shouldn't do it | Mar 11 01:14 |
| oiaohm | Because it blocks sections on there brain cells casing damage. | Mar 11 01:15 |
| balzac | but they should mind their own business if I choose to do it, so long as I'm not driving, flying a plane, etc. | Mar 11 01:15 |
| balzac | oiaohm: choice trumps all of your scary pseudo-scientific factoids | Mar 11 01:15 |
| oiaohm | Note does not clean way like other people. | Mar 11 01:15 |
| balzac | freedom first, last, and in-between | Mar 11 01:15 |
| oiaohm | Really dna test could be developed if they put there time into it. | Mar 11 01:15 |
| balzac | freedom, freedom, freedom, nothing less, ever. | Mar 11 01:16 |
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| balzac | no thanks on the DNA tests. Privacy first. | Mar 11 01:16 |
| oiaohm | Simple blood test tell you if you should or should not be using it. | Mar 11 01:16 |
| balzac | privacy is part of freedom | Mar 11 01:16 |
| balzac | I don't trust those who would presume to test my blood and offer their hypothesis | Mar 11 01:16 |
| balzac | I'd trust myself to administer a blood test and form a theory on how it relates to various drugs, but I wouldn't trust many others to do that. | Mar 11 01:17 |
| balzac | so many fools, I'd rather be my own doctor most of the time. | Mar 11 01:17 |
| oiaohm | If the test was developer it would allow people to have informed knollage of the harm. | Mar 11 01:17 |
| balzac | Too bad I got all my wisdom teeth removed. Only now I found out that wisdom teeth contain stem cells which can be used to clone brand new teeth. | Mar 11 01:17 |
| oiaohm | Everyone likes to believe that everyone is the same. | Mar 11 01:18 |
| balzac | oiaohm: they would sell my data to a corporation | Mar 11 01:18 |
| balzac | I trust very few people because I knew most are full of crap | Mar 11 01:18 |
| balzac | freedom and privacy are priceless | Mar 11 01:18 |
| oiaohm | I don't disgree. | Mar 11 01:18 |
| oiaohm | But knollage about what you are doing is also priceless. | Mar 11 01:19 |
| balzac | Even if I trust your intentions, I don't trust your competence. | Mar 11 01:19 |
| balzac | (speaking in general of most people, not you in particular) | Mar 11 01:19 |
| oiaohm | Its bit like people who smoke all there life and have no problems. | Mar 11 01:19 |
| oiaohm | Some peoples dna is more cancer resistance than others. | Mar 11 01:20 |
| balzac | I don't smoke marijuana often, but it might be the one recreational substance which is most precious to me | Mar 11 01:20 |
| balzac | I don't even smoke on a weekly basis | Mar 11 01:20 |
| balzac | oiaohm: I think you're misinformed about marijuana, personally. | Mar 11 01:21 |
| oiaohm | If you are geneicially weak to it. Each time is a loto if it will harm something important. | Mar 11 01:21 |
| oiaohm | Its like lot of alergic dna base reactions balzac. | Mar 11 01:21 |
| balzac | I could say lots of what you've said about cooked meat, alcohol, car exhaust, your drinking water. | Mar 11 01:21 |
| oiaohm | Problem is this one is not what you call simple to spot. | Mar 11 01:22 |
| balzac | scientists can go on and on about things which are relatively harmless if they have an agenda. | Mar 11 01:22 |
| schestowitz | have yoy heard the story of why it was illegalised? | Mar 11 01:22 |
| schestowitz | *you | Mar 11 01:22 |
| schestowitz | The history is interesting | Mar 11 01:22 |
| balzac | proscribed drugs are, on average, far worse than marijuana | Mar 11 01:22 |
| schestowitz | It's a class issue | Mar 11 01:22 |
| schestowitz | Some doctor attested that he felt like a vulture flying in the room | Mar 11 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Because he tried it on himself, not just on dogs | Mar 11 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Which he claimed to be misbehaving | Mar 11 01:23 |
| balzac | nasal spray, heartburn medication, headache medicine, arthritis medication, psychiatric medication, etc. | Mar 11 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Ogg native support is coming. Yeesh! http://blogs.zdnet.com/open... (Firefox 3.1 beta 3 "done," Firefox 3.5 beta 4 due April 14) | Mar 11 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Retro returning: http://www.tuxradar.com/content/a... | Mar 11 01:23 |
| schestowitz | balzac: I'll find some video, hold on | Mar 11 01:23 |
| oiaohm | Smoking drugs is the secound worst way to get them. Only beaten by chewn tobacoo. | Mar 11 01:24 |
| oiaohm | For the ammout of harm you do to your body. | Mar 11 01:24 |
| balzac | oiaohm: you're right about smoking being worse than eating, vaporizers, ect | Mar 11 01:24 |
| balzac | etc | Mar 11 01:24 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=... | Mar 11 01:24 |
| balzac | but tobacco cannot be compared to marijuana. nobody eats tobacco | Mar 11 01:24 |
| schestowitz | disclosure: I never used illegal drugs | Mar 11 01:25 |
| oiaohm | There are some cultures taht do eat tobacco balzac | Mar 11 01:25 |
| schestowitz | Just alcohol :-) | Mar 11 01:25 |
| oiaohm | Just not common cultures balzac | Mar 11 01:25 |
| balzac | chomsky is quite right | Mar 11 01:26 |
| balzac | yep, down with the hypcritical moral police and the religious authoritarians. | Mar 11 01:26 |
| balzac | freedom first, last, and forever. | Mar 11 01:27 |
| oiaohm | tobacco is worse damaging drug than marijuana has. | Mar 11 01:27 |
| oiaohm | Really all forms of smoking drugs should be outlawed. | Mar 11 01:28 |
| balzac | That Irish woman tore Bush to shreds in that interview | Mar 11 01:28 |
| schestowitz | Interoperable Fashion Statement < http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/blog-entry/inter... > | Mar 11 01:29 |
| balzac | oiaohm: that is perfectly absurd | Mar 11 01:29 |
| schestowitz | balzac: watch that last video | Mar 11 01:29 |
| balzac | tell me, what should be the punishment for smoking a cigarette on the street corner? | Mar 11 01:29 |
| oiaohm | Is there any need to get the drug by a cigarette balzac | Mar 11 01:30 |
| oiaohm | Other than our own execpts of a cheep production method. | Mar 11 01:30 |
| balzac | Those shirts are ridiculous | Mar 11 01:30 |
| balzac | oiaohm: how should such a silly law be enforced? | Mar 11 01:30 |
| balzac | suppose I break the law and smoke a cigarette on the street corner, then what? | Mar 11 01:31 |
| oiaohm | Number one remove cigarettes in the current form from market. | Mar 11 01:31 |
| balzac | Would you like to criminalize tree-climbing because I could fall and die? | Mar 11 01:31 |
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| oiaohm | There is a non burning form of a cigarette that give the drug. | Mar 11 01:31 |
| balzac | suppose I grow my own tobacco | Mar 11 01:31 |
| balzac | oiaohm: why are you so worried about me or others? | Mar 11 01:32 |
| balzac | suppose I prefer to smoke them? | Mar 11 01:32 |
| oiaohm | Reduces secound hand smoke. | Mar 11 01:32 |
| balzac | suppose I'm outside | Mar 11 01:32 |
| oiaohm | Ie person sucking on the device gets the drug people near them gets a lot lower ammount than other wise would. | Mar 11 01:32 |
| balzac | I agree about indoor smoking in public or semi-public places. | Mar 11 01:32 |
| schestowitz | Converting the missus to Linux < http://celettu.wordpress.com/2009/03... > | Mar 11 01:32 |
| balzac | oiaohm: that's beside the point. | Mar 11 01:33 |
| balzac | what about *freedom* ? | Mar 11 01:33 |
| oiaohm | You choose to smoke people you can effect may not have. | Mar 11 01:33 |
| schestowitz | The freedom to ski | Mar 11 01:33 |
| schestowitz | That's a dangerous sport | Mar 11 01:33 |
| balzac | anyway, I'm going to leave it alone | Mar 11 01:33 |
| schestowitz | Should be banned, no? | Mar 11 01:33 |
| oiaohm | Can you choose to do that and not effect others schestowitz | Mar 11 01:33 |
| balzac | suffice it to say, you've got your priorities wrong, but I don't have to change your mind about it | Mar 11 01:33 |
| oiaohm | Answer is yes. | Mar 11 01:34 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I hate smoke in public places | Mar 11 01:34 |
| balzac | I can choose to smoke and not effect others | Mar 11 01:34 |
| schestowitz | I don't mind it when people do so privately | Mar 11 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Their their own problem/joy | Mar 11 01:34 |
| balzac | as a matter of fact, I blow my smoke upwards, and I'm tall so most people never get a whiff | Mar 11 01:34 |
| schestowitz | *that's their | Mar 11 01:34 |
| oiaohm | You do know the smoke stick what you are wearing. | Mar 11 01:34 |
| balzac | secondly, I don't take drags in front of kids, I hide my dig behind me when there are any kids in the vicinity | Mar 11 01:34 |
| balzac | and last, I usually put my cigarette out, and then trash it | Mar 11 01:35 |
| oiaohm | Other point is the device replacement to a cigarette does not burn. | Mar 11 01:35 |
| balzac | one more thing (which is no one elses business but mine), I never carry a pack and rarely smoke more than 2 cigs a day. | Mar 11 01:35 |
| oiaohm | So when not sucking on it nothing is being produced. | Mar 11 01:35 |
| oiaohm | Devices exist to replace all burning forms that cause problems. | Mar 11 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Particularly down here where lots of fires a year are created by cigarettes | Mar 11 01:36 |
| oiaohm | There is a lot of safity things to get rid of the burning forms. | Mar 11 01:36 |
| balzac | I basically never smoke indoors | Mar 11 01:37 |
| oiaohm | Problem is not everyone is as good as you. | Mar 11 01:37 |
| balzac | that's not my fault | Mar 11 01:37 |
| oiaohm | If you house was burn down by your next door person being careless. | Mar 11 01:37 |
| balzac | One guy who lives in the same building as me smokes in-doors and his baby daughter already has asthma | Mar 11 01:37 |
| oiaohm | You would not feel the same about it. | Mar 11 01:37 |
| balzac | glad i'm not like that guy. what a prick. | Mar 11 01:38 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem his daughter is going to suffer for it. | Mar 11 01:38 |
| oiaohm | That is the point of view I am seeing it from. | Mar 11 01:38 |
| balzac | oiaohm: I would not want to live in a flammable house next to a moron. | Mar 11 01:38 |
| balzac | I'd prefer to have distance between our houses or a stone building. | Mar 11 01:38 |
| oiaohm | Sometimes it the only house you can get balzac | Mar 11 01:39 |
| oiaohm | Lot of people suffer every year due to the burning forms we don't need. | Mar 11 01:39 |
| balzac | oiaohm: I don't like the idea of legislating all the danger out of life on account of a few morons. | Mar 11 01:39 |
| oiaohm | Its not like there is not options to prevent it. | Mar 11 01:39 |
| balzac | ok, well I disagree fundamentally with your idea of protecting everyone from themselves. | Mar 11 01:39 |
| balzac | Benjamin Franklin(?) said something security at the cost of liberty is not worth having (paraphrasing). | Mar 11 01:40 |
| oiaohm | There is a difference here. | Mar 11 01:40 |
| balzac | I'm an American and I'm proud of the fact lately. | Mar 11 01:40 |
| oiaohm | A device like a ciggrette would remain. | Mar 11 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Just it would not be burning. | Mar 11 01:40 |
| balzac | During Bush's reign of terror, I didn't feel proud of the USA at that time. | Mar 11 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Basically the tech to do away with problem was developed. | Mar 11 01:41 |
| oiaohm | Its like saying cars should be still allowed to be built without seat belts. | Mar 11 01:41 |
| balzac | I can choose to use it or not, but I wouldn't bother since I'm not a serious smoker. | Mar 11 01:41 |
| balzac | oiaohm: not really. | Mar 11 01:41 |
| oiaohm | It is really the same. | Mar 11 01:41 |
| balzac | not precisely the same | Mar 11 01:42 |
| oiaohm | There a devices to replace ciggrettes. | Mar 11 01:42 |
| balzac | in principle, there's a vague resemblance, but these cases are in fact different. | Mar 11 01:42 |
| oiaohm | Only reason why they are not mass produced is that it would cost about 50 cents more per pack. | Mar 11 01:42 |
| balzac | I'd rather just reduce my habit to 3 cigs a week than use a silly plastic device. | Mar 11 01:42 |
| balzac | and it would be worse for the environment than cigarette butts littering | Mar 11 01:43 |
| oiaohm | One device is paper balzac | Mar 11 01:43 |
| balzac | with a capsule inside which you break? | Mar 11 01:43 |
| oiaohm | Even filter less. so it does break down. | Mar 11 01:43 |
| balzac | how do you activate them? | Mar 11 01:43 |
| oiaohm | Airflow. | Mar 11 01:43 |
| balzac | ok, well I may try one some day. | Mar 11 01:44 |
| balzac | now I'm going to try some work... | Mar 11 01:44 |
| oiaohm | This is the point if it was forced by law. | Mar 11 01:44 |
| oiaohm | the good ones would get on market. | Mar 11 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Plastic ones were basically produced to say see its more damaging to go safer. | Mar 11 01:45 |
| balzac | Ubi dubium, ibi libertas. | Mar 11 01:45 |
| balzac | * Translation: "Where there is doubt, there is freedom." legal, meaning when in doubt the prisoner has to be freed. | Mar 11 01:45 |
| balzac | bbiab | Mar 11 01:46 |
| oiaohm | Remember are you truly free if you never get provided with all options. | Mar 11 01:46 |
| oiaohm | Answer is no. Currently you don't see every option for getting the drug that has been designed. | Mar 11 01:46 |
| schestowitz | Asay stupidity (pardoning a criminal company that sues Linux): "In other words, maybe we'll start to treat Microsoft the way we treat IBM. Stranger things have happened." http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3... | Mar 11 01:46 |
| oiaohm | IBM did at one point attempt to sue particular open source projects. | Mar 11 01:47 |
| oiaohm | So its not completely impossable but I would call it highly unlickly if MS does not change direction. | Mar 11 01:48 |
| schestowitz | Here is another dunce calling for good companies that pay wages to become reckless and greedy: http://www.crn.com/software/215801202 (It's Time to Cash In on Firefox) | Mar 11 01:50 |
| oiaohm | RMS would agree with companies attempting that. | Mar 11 01:59 |
| oiaohm | Opensource is not anti business. | Mar 11 01:59 |
| oiaohm | It would give something for mozilla extentions to compete with. | Mar 11 01:59 |
| schestowitz | There's making money (like Mozilla) and hoarding. | Mar 11 02:03 |
| oiaohm | Boy MS sites love using point systems instead of real bench mark numbers. | Mar 11 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Who cases if X OS comes first if its by bugger all. | Mar 11 02:09 |
| schestowitz | Aye | Mar 11 02:10 |
| *schestowitz works on links for BN. Another good day for FOSS... | Mar 11 02:10 | |
| oiaohm | opensuse and suse both could be dead by end of year. | Mar 11 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Neither is getting free hardware any more. IBM HP DELL.. Don't class them as worth it since they Novell did deal with MS. | Mar 11 02:16 |
| oiaohm | People underextermate the power the big hardware companies have in the open source world. | Mar 11 02:17 |
| schestowitz | Lenovo supports SUSE | Mar 11 02:17 |
| schestowitz | And not Red hat | Mar 11 02:17 |
| schestowitz | Lenovo is very Microsoft centric | Mar 11 02:18 |
| schestowitz | They also hired former Microsoft staff | Mar 11 02:18 |
| schestowitz | So no surprise there. | Mar 11 02:18 |
| oiaohm | Lenovo does not make big servers. | Mar 11 02:19 |
| oiaohm | You running a project you want big server makers on side. | Mar 11 02:19 |
| schestowitz | That's right, they don't | Mar 11 02:20 |
| schestowitz | Bookinf for SUSE were down | Mar 11 02:20 |
| schestowitz | major ones anyway | Mar 11 02:20 |
| schestowitz | BN will retain the same identity though (and name) | Mar 11 02:20 |
| schestowitz | It's possible that Novell won't survive this year | Mar 11 02:20 |
| oiaohm | Redhat has not payed for a server in the last 12 years. | Mar 11 02:20 |
| schestowitz | Their finances are funny | Mar 11 02:20 |
| schestowitz | Been like this for years | Mar 11 02:21 |
| schestowitz | And they were voted most likelt tech company not to survive 2009 | Mar 11 02:21 |
| oiaohm | IBM HP DELL give them servers for testing that there OS is compadible. | Mar 11 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Debian also gets treated the same way. | Mar 11 02:21 |
| schestowitz | I like Debian | Mar 11 02:21 |
| schestowitz | I want them to succeed | Mar 11 02:21 |
| schestowitz | The true hackers | Mar 11 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Suse did before they joined up with MS. | Mar 11 02:21 |
| schestowitz | No Canonical schmanonical | Mar 11 02:22 |
| schestowitz | Real hackers in charge | Mar 11 02:22 |
| oiaohm | That Novell MS deal has had more costs that Novell could have dreamed. | Mar 11 02:22 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: did what? | Mar 11 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Hardware companies stoped giving Novell free hardware. | Mar 11 02:22 |
| schestowitz | Really? | Mar 11 02:22 |
| schestowitz | Wait. | Mar 11 02:22 |
| schestowitz | Did they give them h/w before? | Mar 11 02:22 |
| schestowitz | AMD gave Novell access to stuff for radeonhd | Mar 11 02:23 |
| schestowitz | But that's separate | Mar 11 02:23 |
| schestowitz | I didn't know about other h/w access. | Mar 11 02:23 |
| oiaohm | That deal was done before the MS Novell deal. | Mar 11 02:23 |
| schestowitz | Got link/s? | Mar 11 02:23 |
| oiaohm | No public links. | Mar 11 02:24 |
| oiaohm | Not public links. | Mar 11 02:24 |
| oiaohm | Sign of it is simple when was the last time you saw a major distrobution begging for hardware. | Mar 11 02:24 |
| oiaohm | That is normally not required. If I am selling machines with your distribution on it normally some hardware is provided to the maker for testing reasons. | Mar 11 02:25 |
| oiaohm | Ie the normal hardware coming out ears problem. | Mar 11 02:25 |
| oiaohm | A server here or there is nothing to the big makers compared to the cost a few 1000 customers can cost in support calls if stuff does not work right. | Mar 11 02:26 |
| schestowitz | But... | Mar 11 02:28 |
| schestowitz | h/w is mostly handled by kernel modules and drivers | Mar 11 02:28 |
| schestowitz | SUSE and Red Hat share that | Mar 11 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Configuration front ends | Mar 11 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Still have to be right. | Mar 11 02:28 |
| schestowitz | Yes, gotcha | Mar 11 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Its a bit like hardware reviewers. | Mar 11 02:29 |
| oiaohm | They also normally have hardware coming out there ears. | Mar 11 02:29 |
| oiaohm | Other problem novell lost a lot of there kernel programmers for Linux. | Mar 11 02:31 |
| oiaohm | Gave sever builders even less reasons to give them free hardware. | Mar 11 02:31 |
| schestowitz | to Google | Mar 11 02:34 |
| schestowitz | People like Robert Love whom I mentioned before | Mar 11 02:34 |
| schestowitz | They still have Greg K-H | Mar 11 02:34 |
| schestowitz | They lost some Samba developers | Mar 11 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Basically the costs are adding up. | Mar 11 02:37 |
| oiaohm | Google would love some free hardware. | Mar 11 02:37 |
| oiaohm | Samba developers normally never have a problem getting a job elsewhere. | Mar 11 02:39 |
| oiaohm | All the NAS produces using samba make a great homes for them. | Mar 11 02:39 |
| schestowitz | > Google would love some f | Mar 11 02:39 |
| schestowitz | Google would love some f | Mar 11 02:39 |
| schestowitz | http://www.ngoprekweb.com/wp-content... | Mar 11 02:39 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: one moved to Red hat, one to Google, maybe more. | Mar 11 02:40 |
| oiaohm | Basically Novell is bleeding its life blood. | Mar 11 02:41 |
| oiaohm | More it loses the worse they will be off. | Mar 11 02:41 |
| oiaohm | Part of the problem hardware companies are not idiots. They don't want to be tied up in patent problems. | Mar 11 02:41 |
| oiaohm | Novell can ship Novell OS but no where does MS coverage allow hardware makers to do it cleanly. | Mar 11 02:42 |
| oiaohm | Novell shot both there feet off. So shipping Mono and the like directly to end uses is most likely there own way out. | Mar 11 02:42 |
| schestowitz | I have an article about Mono coming | Mar 11 02:45 |
| schestowitz | Preview of source: http://www.thelinuxlink.net/myblog/?p=173 | Mar 11 02:46 |
| schestowitz | Also this: http://www.serverwatch.com/eur/a... | Mar 11 02:46 |
| schestowitz | You really want to read that second one | Mar 11 02:46 |
| schestowitz | It agrees with you fully | Mar 11 02:46 |
| schestowitz | The former is about Mono and patents | Mar 11 02:46 |
| schestowitz | Both published today | Mar 11 02:46 |
| oiaohm | Both not seeing the life blood draining out of Novell. | Mar 11 02:49 |
| oiaohm | All software companies depend on the same life blood developers. | Mar 11 02:49 |
| *NeonFloss (n=imsorry@rdsl-0591.tor.pathcom.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 11 02:49 | |
| NeonFloss | hello all | Mar 11 02:50 |
| oiaohm | Hi NeonFloss | Mar 11 02:50 |
| NeonFloss | hello there ok I am over here mate | Mar 11 02:50 |
| NeonFloss | what would you guys say is the biggest, clearest, worst example of microsoft abusing the legal system (one that easiest to explain to others) ? | Mar 11 02:51 |
| The SCO fraud case? | Mar 11 02:52 | |
| oiaohm | SCO case is Novell not microsoft | Mar 11 02:53 |
| oiaohm | Pure Novell. | Mar 11 02:53 |
| M$ funded the SCO attack. | Mar 11 02:53 | |
| It was an attack by proxy, but it's still the biggest abuse yet. | Mar 11 02:54 | |
| oiaohm | Novell fake solding the rights. | Mar 11 02:54 |
| oiaohm | That allowed SCO to attack Microsoft and Sun. | Mar 11 02:54 |
| oiaohm | Its pure Novell behind the SCO case. | Mar 11 02:54 |
| oiaohm | Here you have all the rights we can transfer to Unix technollages SCO go sue other companies is what Novell basically did. | Mar 11 02:55 |
| SCO did not attack M$, they sent letters to GNU/Linux users. | Mar 11 02:55 | |
| oiaohm | Only one major problem due to a prior legal case between BSD and Novell most of Novells rights were not transferable. | Mar 11 02:55 |
| oiaohm | SCO did attack MS | Mar 11 02:55 |
| oiaohm | MS settled. | Mar 11 02:55 |
| Everyone knew SCO had nothing. | Mar 11 02:55 | |
| M$'s settlement was a bribe to do more. | Mar 11 02:56 | |
| oiaohm | SCO would have had something if all the rights of Novell could have been transfered. | Mar 11 02:56 |
| oiaohm | BSD case makes that impossable. | Mar 11 02:56 |
| There were no rights, as was decided by the BSD case. | Mar 11 02:56 | |
| So it was all bullshit. | Mar 11 02:56 | |
| oiaohm | BSD case locked lot of Novell rights as punishment. | Mar 11 02:56 |
| SCO, before M$ crushed them, was also a GNU/Linux helper, working with IBM and others to make GNU/Linux better. | Mar 11 02:57 | |
| I've got a copy of Caldera's Open Linux on my desk. | Mar 11 02:57 | |
| oiaohm | SCO has been crushed by Novell purely. | Mar 11 02:57 |
| oiaohm | Do a deal that give the appearance that you have everything. SCO did not do there homework on what rights of Novell were not transferable and Novell did not tell them. | Mar 11 02:58 |
| oiaohm | So SCO goes around threating people thinking they have rights. | Mar 11 02:58 |
| oiaohm | Then Novell pulls out the paperwork that they basically transfered them nothing. | Mar 11 02:58 |
| You think anyone at SCO believed any of their anti-linux case? | Mar 11 02:58 | |
| oiaohm | Yep 1 dead company. | Mar 11 02:58 |
| It was pure FUD from start to finish. | Mar 11 02:59 | |
| oiaohm | At first they did twitter | Mar 11 02:59 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem twitter | Mar 11 02:59 |
| oiaohm | Dealing with a company like Novell they will kill you by missing telling you something. | Mar 11 02:59 |
| oiaohm | SCO was one of Novells biggest competors for market at the time the deal was done. | Mar 11 03:00 |
| Bullshit. If there was any of their source code in the Linux kernel, they would have been proud to produce it. There was nothing, it was pure bluff and fraud. | Mar 11 03:00 | |
| Soon enough, there will be a criminal investigation. | Mar 11 03:00 | |
| oiaohm | There was source code from IBM and others put into Linux kernel without the BSD case would have been in voliation. | Mar 11 03:01 |
| No source code was ever found. | Mar 11 03:01 | |
| oiaohm | That is the problem SCO though they had particular rights. | Mar 11 03:01 |
| The problem is that it was fraud. | Mar 11 03:01 | |
| oiaohm | They found out they did not before there case started when Novell counter attacked. | Mar 11 03:01 |
| That's an abuse of the legal system. | Mar 11 03:01 | |
| oiaohm | Now you are a dead company walking what do you do. | Mar 11 03:02 |
| They knew before the case started because they were liars and frauds. M$ paid them to do it. | Mar 11 03:02 | |
| NeonFloss | wowo thanks! | Mar 11 03:02 |
| schestowitz | NeonFloss: there are better non-Linux-related examples | Mar 11 03:03 |
| schestowitz | Like financial fraud | Mar 11 03:03 |
| Groklaw has good documentation of the entire fraud. | Mar 11 03:03 | |
| NeonFloss | that would be better | Mar 11 03:03 |
| The destruction of OLPC is a huge moral abuse, but they did not use courts for that one. | Mar 11 03:03 | |
| oiaohm | twitter: without Novells rights to stuff SCO basically had nothing. | Mar 11 03:03 |
| oiaohm | SCO had the idea they had a ace in the hole basically. When they did not. | Mar 11 03:04 |
| They had nothing, just like M$ has no real patents. | Mar 11 03:04 | |
| It's all fraud for FUD. | Mar 11 03:04 | |
| oiaohm | MS is not the only one in the game of fraud. | Mar 11 03:04 |
| NeonFloss | schestowitz: whats the biggest abuse incident ? | Mar 11 03:05 |
| oiaohm | How do you define big NeonFloss | Mar 11 03:05 |
| oiaohm | Numbers or Value. | Mar 11 03:05 |
| The destruction of Peter Quinn and his whole IT department is a nice big abuse. | Mar 11 03:05 | |
| NeonFloss | the morally worst incident | Mar 11 03:05 |
| NeonFloss | that was legal too | Mar 11 03:05 |
| schestowitz | NeonFloss: you can search BN for many example | Mar 11 03:06 |
| NeonFloss | ok thanks | Mar 11 03:06 |
| schestowitz | Try "crime", "blackmail", "sabotage"... | Mar 11 03:06 |
| NeonFloss | any one that sticks out ? | Mar 11 03:06 |
| oiaohm | Biggest at currnet time has to be bill gates current charity. | Mar 11 03:06 |
| oiaohm | Almost everything they do is linked to MS Software. | Mar 11 03:06 |
| NeonFloss | yes I agree | Mar 11 03:06 |
| schestowitz | NeonFloss: you need amount | Mar 11 03:06 |
| schestowitz | \Piles of evidence | Mar 11 03:06 |
| schestowitz | Not just one | Mar 11 03:06 |
| NeonFloss | I know | Mar 11 03:06 |
| schestowitz | To be compelling anyway | Mar 11 03:07 |
| tax evasion is not morally upsetting to everyone. | Mar 11 03:07 | |
| schestowitz | Grokl;aw has lists too | Mar 11 03:07 |
| oiaohm | Charity also tax evasion. | Mar 11 03:07 |
| schestowitz | http://grokdoc.net/index.php/D... | Mar 11 03:07 |
| NeonFloss | I am in a situation where I would have to brush on the topic, so somthing that would be possibly to mediumly well explain in a short time... | Mar 11 03:07 |
| NeonFloss | ill look on site | Mar 11 03:07 |
| NeonFloss | thats for writing it! | Mar 11 03:07 |
| it's easier to challenge someone to think of something M$ has done that's good. | Mar 11 03:08 | |
| the answer is nothing. | Mar 11 03:08 | |
| schestowitz | Also see: http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/i... | Mar 11 03:09 |
| schestowitz | And: http://boycottnovell.com/microsoft-cri... | Mar 11 03:09 |
| oiaohm | Not quite right there MS did one thing good. Freed the market from the iron grip of Apple. | Mar 11 03:10 |
| NeonFloss | thanks for links | Mar 11 03:10 |
| oiaohm | You could write over 20 000 pages in short form on all the things MS has done wrong. | Mar 11 03:11 |
| oiaohm | So there is tons of matterial NeonFloss | Mar 11 03:11 |
| schestowitz | NeonFloss: I'm going to bed now, but see http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/inde... | Mar 11 03:12 |
| schestowitz | I need to do lots more work on the Wiki | Mar 11 03:12 |
| oiaohm | If you wanted a challage for writing about bad things a company has try doing a write up on Cisco systems. | Mar 11 03:12 |
| NeonFloss | thanks again | Mar 11 03:12 |
| oiaohm | Cisco systems list is suprisinly short. | Mar 11 03:12 |
| NeonFloss | oiaohm: im not debating. I have to give explain the fact that microsoft does bad things in 4-8 sentences | Mar 11 03:12 |
| *NeonFloss hates time limits | Mar 11 03:13 | |
| oiaohm | O boy | Mar 11 03:13 |
| oiaohm | That like trying to fit a full size sky scrapper into a match box. | Mar 11 03:13 |
| NeonFloss | aye | Mar 11 03:13 |
| oiaohm | With that limited space to get a broad coverage you might just have to list them. | Mar 11 03:15 |
| NeonFloss | ill see what I can do | Mar 11 03:16 |
| NeonFloss | I just want to establish the fact tha tmicrosoft abuses the legal sysyem and moral values / ethic | Mar 11 03:16 |
| NeonFloss | s | Mar 11 03:16 |
| oiaohm | Legal system Patent system standard system. | Mar 11 03:17 |
| oiaohm | There is basically no system they don't abuse. Remember the current one with Under the table FAT patent deals that are illegal by GPL with companies. Ie TomTom case. | Mar 11 03:17 |
| Here's a really clueless story. Shows how out of touch most people are. http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/w... | Mar 11 03:26 | |
| FedEx tried to boost their revenues by offering 25 resume prints at no cost. | Mar 11 03:27 | |
| Problem: no one ever mails a paper resume any more. | Mar 11 03:27 | |
| Idiots interviewed concluded the lack of crowd was due to, " some people don't want to help themselves" | Mar 11 03:28 | |
| One in five US citizens can't pay their medical bills. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200... | Mar 11 03:42 | |
| for black citizens the rate is one in three. | Mar 11 03:43 | |
| the problem is well known, more than half of respondents say someone in their family has skipped needed medical treatment they can't pay for. | Mar 11 03:44 | |
| The man who said, "The brutal oppression of the Palestinians by the Israeli occupation shows no sign of ending. American identification with Israel has become total." Has been accused of bias. Truth == Bias. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co... | Mar 11 03:54 | |
| NeonFloss | if a schoolboard has a 6 million dollar computer budget how much of that would you guys estimate goes towards software? | Mar 11 03:56 |
| oiaohm | 85 percent NeonFloss | Mar 11 04:14 |
| NeonFloss | srsly? | Mar 11 04:14 |
| oiaohm | It all depends on the software they are using. | Mar 11 04:15 |
| oiaohm | It can be that bad. | Mar 11 04:15 |
| NeonFloss | xp, office 2003 | Mar 11 04:15 |
| NeonFloss | daboc ps | Mar 11 04:15 |
| NeonFloss | adobe ps* | Mar 11 04:15 |
| oiaohm | adobe photoshope right there is 50 percent. | Mar 11 04:16 |
| NeonFloss | well its bulk for non for profit | Mar 11 04:16 |
| NeonFloss | err | Mar 11 04:16 |
| NeonFloss | yea | Mar 11 04:16 |
| oiaohm | 500 dollars worth of machine. | Mar 11 04:16 |
| oiaohm | Adobe software is not cheep. | Mar 11 04:16 |
| oiaohm | xp and office can be got quite cheep for training. | Mar 11 04:17 |
| NeonFloss | but your buying network copies | Mar 11 04:17 |
| oiaohm | Adobe network copies or not expensive. | Mar 11 04:17 |
| oiaohm | http://volumelicensing.adobe.com/DRHM/s.../a> | Mar 11 04:19 |
| oiaohm | Yes NeonFloss its $699 per copy at volume rate for photoshop. | Mar 11 04:20 |
| oiaohm | Now XP and Office under 100 dollars per seat at education rates. | Mar 11 04:21 |
| NeonFloss | how many installs for that 700? | Mar 11 04:22 |
| oiaohm | 1 | Mar 11 04:22 |
| oiaohm | Its 699 dollars a seat NeonFloss | Mar 11 04:22 |
| oiaohm | Boxed set is over 1500 | Mar 11 04:22 |
| NeonFloss | oiaohm: http://volumelicensing.adobe.com/store/adbevlus/... | Mar 11 04:23 |
| NeonFloss | it cant be for one istall | Mar 11 04:23 |
| NeonFloss | acrobat cant be 450 | Mar 11 04:23 |
| NeonFloss | that much for that pos | Mar 11 04:23 |
| NeonFloss | something seems wronf | Mar 11 04:23 |
| oiaohm | It is | Mar 11 04:23 |
| oiaohm | This is way I said 85 percent and that was being optimisic. | Mar 11 04:24 |
| NeonFloss | oiaohm:thats for single purchase | Mar 11 04:24 |
| oiaohm | There is no discount on large numbers from adobe either. | Mar 11 04:24 |
| NeonFloss | if you buy 20 000 youll get discount probs | Mar 11 04:24 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Mar 11 04:24 |
| oiaohm | Adobe is flat rate you could order 1 million copies and it still would not change anything. | Mar 11 04:25 |
| NeonFloss | are you sure? | Mar 11 04:25 |
| oiaohm | Yes there it a common reason why you don't see adobe in alot of networks. | Mar 11 04:26 |
| oiaohm | To beeping expensive. | Mar 11 04:26 |
| oiaohm | Adobe reader is free. | Mar 11 04:26 |
| NeonFloss | its not fulll cs | Mar 11 04:27 |
| NeonFloss | its just ps | Mar 11 04:27 |
| NeonFloss | on most | Mar 11 04:27 |
| oiaohm | Ok that would be a little cheaper. | Mar 11 04:27 |
| oiaohm | Not by much. | Mar 11 04:27 |
| oiaohm | Photoshop elements is about 200 dollars a copy NeonFloss | Mar 11 04:31 |
| NeonFloss | orly | Mar 11 04:31 |
| oiaohm | Opps 100 dollars a copy. | Mar 11 04:31 |
| NeonFloss | would they make it cheaper for eduational institution | Mar 11 04:32 |
| NeonFloss | ? | Mar 11 04:32 |
| oiaohm | Types a 2 instead of a 1 into the ordering system. | Mar 11 04:32 |
| oiaohm | Yep as per normal PS CS2 in the ordering system is rounded up by 1 dollar. | Mar 11 04:33 |
| oiaohm | Opps CS4 | Mar 11 04:33 |
| oiaohm | So its a round 700 dollars. | Mar 11 04:33 |
| NeonFloss | what about hardware? | Mar 11 04:34 |
| NeonFloss | how much would a dual core, 200 GB, 2 GB memory dell computer cost? | Mar 11 04:34 |
| NeonFloss | for educational? | Mar 11 04:35 |
| oiaohm | Case no software or screen about 600 to 700 dollars. | Mar 11 04:35 |
| NeonFloss | way too much | Mar 11 04:36 |
| NeonFloss | its no way near that | Mar 11 04:36 |
| NeonFloss | I could buy that myself for 400 | Mar 11 04:36 |
| oiaohm | That is with full replacement support. | Mar 11 04:36 |
| NeonFloss | and this is bulk eduatioal | Mar 11 04:36 |
| NeonFloss | whatever | Mar 11 04:36 |
| NeonFloss | I need sleep | Mar 11 04:36 |
| NeonFloss | gn | Mar 11 04:36 |
| oiaohm | School does nto pay that 250 | Mar 11 04:36 |
| *NeonFloss is now known as Neon|out | Mar 11 04:37 | |
| oiaohm | Note replacement support convers kids doing stupid thing sto them. | Mar 11 04:37 |
| oiaohm | Like shoving trash in them. | Mar 11 04:37 |
| oiaohm | Also its a 100 dollars extra so dell does not put there crap adverting software on. | Mar 11 04:39 |
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| MinceR | i might have strong opinions about the punishment m$ leaders deserve because i think i know pretty well what happened and i'm one of the victims of their crimes | Mar 11 06:50 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Mar 11 06:57 | |
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| MinceR | geekings | Mar 11 09:05 |
| trmanco | looks like microsoft really wan't to push it's crappy search engine | Mar 11 09:08 |
| trmanco | now, when you log out of hotmail you now get redirected to live.com | Mar 11 09:09 |
| trmanco | before it would redirect you to msn.com | Mar 11 09:09 |
| schestowitz | Morning. | Mar 11 09:10 |
| MinceR | so it's like the vista downgrade trick | Mar 11 09:11 |
| trmanco | g morning | Mar 11 09:11 |
| MinceR | count hotmail users as live visitors | Mar 11 09:11 |
| MinceR | hay schestowitz | Mar 11 09:11 |
| trmanco | MinceR, live visitor? no way, live users | Mar 11 09:12 |
| MinceR | that too | Mar 11 09:12 |
| MinceR | they should rename themselves to Desperatesoft | Mar 11 09:12 |
| trmanco | dsoft.com | Mar 11 09:12 |
| trmanco | or desperatesoft.com, buy those domains | Mar 11 09:12 |
| trmanco | when they need them, they will pay you well :-P | Mar 11 09:12 |
| MinceR | :) | Mar 11 09:13 |
| trmanco | bbl | Mar 11 09:17 |
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| schestowitz | Kazakhstan: The population census revealed 130-year old woman in the Karaganda Oblast http://enews.ferghana.ru/ne... | Mar 11 10:29 |
| schestowitz | Albania to formally apply for EU membership http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/al... | Mar 11 10:31 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x... | Mar 11 11:00 |
| Eruaran | hello | Mar 11 11:56 |
| schestowitz | Hi | Mar 11 11:58 |
| Eruaran | any news ? | Mar 11 11:58 |
| schestowitz | Right now I'm writing about Intel's crimes | Mar 11 12:00 |
| schestowitz | That's yesterday's news | Mar 11 12:00 |
| schestowitz | I think Intel should be embargoed globally, as hard as it is. | Mar 11 12:00 |
| Eruaran | I've noticed alot articles all sort of popping up at once in the last few days declaring the end of linux on netbooks | Mar 11 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Really does not help that intel is working on something like science fiction liquid metal. | Mar 11 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Unless some of its executives get the 'Madoff treatment', then we merely educate by saying that crime pays off.. and pays. And the criminals moreover glorified and lauded as heroes. | Mar 11 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: it's the MS shills | Mar 11 12:02 |
| schestowitz | People like Preston Gralla | Mar 11 12:02 |
| Eruaran | indeed | Mar 11 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Quoting US-only figures as though they are global | Mar 11 12:02 |
| Eruaran | I noticed Preston Gralla's linux article | Mar 11 12:02 |
| schestowitz | How convenient to also omit that | Mar 11 12:02 |
| schestowitz | And also the NPD relationship with Microsoft | Mar 11 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: he's a shill | Mar 11 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Enderle wannabe. He's ignored in Linux sites that know better | Mar 11 12:03 |
| Eruaran | He spends several web pages worth of waffle making basic things on linux seem complicated enough to give anyone a headache | Mar 11 12:03 |
