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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 12th, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:02 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


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To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

schestowitz That’s BS Mar 12 00:00
schestowitz It’s not the first Mar 12 00:00
schestowitz Gregg Keizer has not been paying attention Mar 12 00:00
schestowitz But Microsoft says Linux is secure just because it’s used by ‘few’ (which is not true by the way) Mar 12 00:01
schestowitz Is Vista7 already widely deployed then? Mar 12 00:01
schestowitz Or is it just Vista, aka XP redone badly Mar 12 00:01
trmanco http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=05372 Mar 12 00:03
trmanco not it’s really vista done in a different way Mar 12 00:03
trmanco think of it, XP the good, Vista the bad and 7 the ugly, this thinking only in microfoot’s OSes Mar 12 00:04
schestowitz :-) :-) Mar 12 00:07
schestowitz XP was no good, either Mar 12 00:07
schestowitz Compared to Vista it might seem good Mar 12 00:07
Balrog compared to vista, XP works Mar 12 00:07
Balrog XP becomes useless after 3-6 months of me using it though Mar 12 00:08
Balrog tells a lot about its stability Mar 12 00:08
trmanco http://magazine.redhat.com/2009/03/10/ri… Mar 12 00:09
trmanco this is what I call a somewhat legitimate security report Mar 12 00:09
schestowitz “Mozila [...] NOT!” Mar 12 00:11
schestowitz That’s Microsoft attitude Mar 12 00:11
schestowitz Borat like. Mar 12 00:11
schestowitz They hire ‘professionals’ Mar 12 00:11
schestowitz To write in their buddy platform, IDG Mar 12 00:11
schestowitz brb Mar 12 00:11
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schestowitz Microsoft sells kids: Child offered for sale on Xbox Live < http://www.reghardware.co… > Mar 12 00:15
schestowitz National Semiconductor to lay off 1,725 < http://www.theregister.co.uk/… >; Spansion gets Nasdaq delisting notice < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200… >. There was an article earlier about recreating forests using out-of-work people. Mar 12 00:16
schestowitz is Sun trying to steal the thunder from kernel.org (Linux)? http://www.itwire.com/con… It also tried ‘stealing’ “LAMP” Mar 12 00:20
balzac The reason M$ software still sucks after all these decades is that their software doesn’t arise from social integrity. *nix software has the academic and scientific community’s social integrity from which a higher level of general integration has emerged Mar 12 00:23
schestowitz Wow! “47% of the German GNU/Linux server market share is Debian. That doesn’t count Ubuntu Server Edition, Centos, Fedora, Slackware, and other less well known and also freely available distributions.” http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php… Mar 12 00:24
schestowitz Wow again. “Fedora 10 has been gaining new users at impressive rates.  This past week alone Fedora 10 has picked up over 100,000 more. ” http://californiaquantum.wordpress… Mar 12 00:26
schestowitz In BN, 1 in 3 Linux users is a Ubuntu user Mar 12 00:29
Balrog anything wrong with Ubuntu? Mar 12 00:30
schestowitz Windows has a market share of 44% at most Mar 12 00:30
schestowitz Balrog: not at all. Mar 12 00:30
schestowitz I like Debian Mar 12 00:30
Balrog I set up a new user with XP / Ubuntu (dual boot) … good idea? He won’t do without windows, so is that fine? Mar 12 00:30
schestowitz Because it’s not tied to investors Mar 12 00:30
schestowitz Balrog: well done. Mar 12 00:31
Balrog Debian is good, but for new users? Mar 12 00:31
schestowitz Maybe. Why not? Mar 12 00:31
schestowitz If you set it up for them Mar 12 00:31
schestowitz Or preload it Mar 12 00:31
schestowitz Like MEPIS Mar 12 00:31
Balrog The people at our univ. don’t support ubuntu, only fedora, so I’m supporting it :) Mar 12 00:31
Balrog (for him) Mar 12 00:31
schestowitz Or Xandros which is based on it too Mar 12 00:31
schestowitz Knoppix.. Mar 12 00:31
Balrog we use Knoppix for diag Mar 12 00:31
Balrog here Mar 12 00:31
schestowitz Cool. Mar 12 00:31
schestowitz I’m impressed with how quickly it gains Mar 12 00:32
schestowitz No wonder MS is suing Mar 12 00:32
schestowitz And throwing out XP for $5 apiece Mar 12 00:32
schestowitz Take it, just take it! Mar 12 00:32
schestowitz “Just don’t use this Lunix thing” Mar 12 00:32
Balrog heh Mar 12 00:32
schestowitz They go aggressve like this in India and Brazil Mar 12 00:32
Balrog here we have MSDN XP and Vista Mar 12 00:32
schestowitz They blame “piracy”. They don’t say the L word Mar 12 00:32
Balrog though no-one uses vista Mar 12 00:32
schestowitz It might give people ideas Mar 12 00:33
schestowitz And dumping is euphemised as “chairity” Mar 12 00:33
Balrog heh yeah Mar 12 00:33
Balrog but what about free software…???? Mar 12 00:33
schestowitz gratis Mar 12 00:33
Balrog meaning real free Mar 12 00:33
schestowitz Gates says MS does free software Mar 12 00:33
Balrog foss Mar 12 00:33
Balrog well it’s not free if anyone can’t get it for free Mar 12 00:34
schestowitz And “then there’s this thing called the GPL, which we disgree with” (Gate, April 2004 talk) Mar 12 00:34
Balrog if a school gets it free and a business has to pay for it, you can’t call it free Mar 12 00:34
Balrog if they disagree with GPL, why not use a GPL-incompatible FOSS license like CDDL? Mar 12 00:34
Balrog it’s still FOSS…. Mar 12 00:34
schestowitz Yeah.. Mar 12 00:34
schestowitz They use CDDL? Mar 12 00:34
schestowitz MS uses Novell to touch GPL Mar 12 00:35
schestowitz Citrix too is a GPL ‘proxy’ Mar 12 00:35
schestowitz Microsoft can’t touch it Mar 12 00:35
schestowitz Microsoft preaches in microsoft.com that GPL is evil and all.. Mar 12 00:35
Balrog I know some people who don’t like GPL because it’s viral Mar 12 00:35
Balrog :/ Mar 12 00:37
Balrog what’s better for a new user: kde or gnome? Mar 12 00:37
schestowitz depends… Mar 12 00:38
*schestowitz eats Mar 12 00:38
schestowitz advaNCED N00B? Mar 12 00:39
Balrog someone who’s used to XP and visual studio and all Mar 12 00:39
schestowitz or total n00b? Mar 12 00:39
schestowitz kde4 then? Mar 12 00:39
Balrog nope, an experienced one Mar 12 00:39
Balrog but zero knowledge of anything unix Mar 12 00:39
schestowitz linus tried 4.0 Mar 12 00:39
schestowitz big mistake Mar 12 00:40
schestowitz too early Mar 12 00:40
Balrog yes absolutely Mar 12 00:40
Balrog though gnome is much cleaner than ked Mar 12 00:40
Balrog kde * Mar 12 00:40
Balrog I put in gnome kde AND xfce Mar 12 00:41
balzac http://www.pcmech.com/article/good-lin… Mar 12 00:43
balzac what a clown Mar 12 00:44
balzac [#boycottnovell] Pu! I#[7m@Ym not a #[7m@\Linux Zealot#[7m@]. I#[7m@Ym a GNU user. Microsoft can take their software patents and stuff them. Mar 12 00:45
balzac oops Mar 12 00:45
Balrog good linux users complain big-time about MS Mar 12 00:45
balzac how do those trashy characters get in there… Mar 12 00:45
schestowitz balzac: yes, seen the headline earlier, not the article Mar 12 00:45
schestowitz Sounds like the fools who later wonder about lawsuits Mar 12 00:46
balzac The guy says “to Linux Zealots fsck you!” Mar 12 00:46
schestowitz And software patents in Europe and all.. Mar 12 00:46
Balrog especially about everything that MS does that causes PROBLEMS in linux Mar 12 00:46
Balrog like silver light Mar 12 00:46
Balrog D= Mar 12 00:46
schestowitz It’s intentional Mar 12 00:47
schestowitz Remember memos Mar 12 00:47
Balrog yeah I know Mar 12 00:47
schestowitz “Under NO circumstances lose to Linux” Mar 12 00:47
Balrog yes. Mar 12 00:47
schestowitz “We need to innovate beyond/above standards” Mar 12 00:47
schestowitz I.e. we need to make things that won’t work in Linux Mar 12 00:47
schestowitz “There will be a lawsuit against Linux” Mar 12 00:47
schestowitz Etc etc. Mar 12 00:47
schestowitz SCO suit Mar 12 00:47
schestowitz Old debate anyway Mar 12 00:48
schestowitz When people bring it up then… hold on. Mar 12 00:48
balzac No, Rich Menga, fsck you! I’m not a “Linux Zealot”. I’m a GNU user. And Microsoft can take their software patents and stuff them. M$ stinks! Mar 12 00:48
schestowitz See picture: http://slated.org/why_do… Mar 12 00:48
balzac He said “To Linux zealots – fsck you!” Mar 12 00:48
balzac The best comeback to “fsck you” is “no, fsck you” Mar 12 00:49
schestowitz Balrog: in Popular Mechanics, eh? Mar 12 00:49
schestowitz Anyway, I’d rather not fight them Mar 12 00:49
schestowitz Watse of energy Mar 12 00:49
Balrog name mixup fail Mar 12 00:49
schestowitz Civil wars Mar 12 00:49
balzac learned that one in an Ahnuld Gropenfuhrer movie Mar 12 00:49
schestowitz Let’s keep up the good work exposing Microsoft Mar 12 00:49
schestowitz I’ve known people who changed from MS apathy to something else Mar 12 00:49
schestowitz Because they saw Comes stuff for example Mar 12 00:50
schestowitz They wears off the “we’ve changes… the New Microsoft” makeup Mar 12 00:50
balzac Roy, it doesn’t cost me much energy to return a “fsck you” back to it’s rightful owner. Mar 12 00:53
schestowitz Adobe neglects UNIX/Linux again: http://www.pcworld.com/article/16109… “The fix is only available for version 9, with an update for older 7 and 8 versions expected by March 18, the company says. Unix users will need to wait until March 25 for an update.” Mar 12 00:55
schestowitz balzac: yes, but we make things worse by aggravating further the wrong people Mar 12 00:55
Balrog adobe doesn’t care for linux Mar 12 00:55
schestowitz I think: Mar 12 00:55
schestowitz Ignore his post Mar 12 00:55
balzac Who cares about Adobe. I’m neglecting them now, after 10 years of photoshop Mar 12 00:55
schestowitz Analyse something like Comes Mar 12 00:56
balzac Roy, I don’t agree. Mar 12 00:56
schestowitz Then show him Mar 12 00:56
schestowitz Let him make own mind Mar 12 00:56
schestowitz I heard the name Rich Menga before. Mar 12 00:56
schestowitz Let me check. Mar 12 00:56
balzac he can make up his own mind, but he can also get back what he puts out Mar 12 00:56
schestowitz Haha. http://www.menga.net/2004/08/22/linux-n… Mar 12 00:57
balzac It was a douchey article Mar 12 00:57
schestowitz Anti Linux? Mar 12 00:57
schestowitz balzac: I didn’t read the article Mar 12 00:57
balzac who is he to go on about who is or isn’t a good “linux” user? Mar 12 00:57
schestowitz It seemed like it would only annoy me Mar 12 00:57
schestowitz Also from him: Would The Internet Exist Without Linux? < http://www.pcmech.com/article/woul… > Mar 12 00:57
schestowitz balzac: agreed Mar 12 00:58
schestowitz To say who is “good” is wrong Mar 12 00:58
balzac Roy, i always like to raise the ante when i’m right because it makes it that much more fun to be victorious. Mar 12 00:58
schestowitz But I didn’t read it Mar 12 00:58
schestowitz He hardly writes about Linux Mar 12 00:58
balzac honestly, I pity fools who go on like that with no substance at all. Mar 12 00:58
schestowitz But… he’s not our enemy Mar 12 00:59
schestowitz I learned the same about Matt asay Mar 12 00:59
schestowitz Better to be diplomatic Mar 12 00:59
balzac not an enemey at all, just a douchey software pundit Mar 12 00:59
schestowitz He’s like friends with many of us… just not 100% in agreement… but why alienate if we can use him on ‘our team’? Mar 12 00:59
balzac naw man, it’s funny to do verbal retaliation. it’s fun and sporting to talk trash anyway. Mar 12 01:00
schestowitz This reminds me… Mar 12 01:00
Balrog the internet would suck without linux Mar 12 01:00
balzac Roy, that’s a failing strategy Mar 12 01:00
schestowitz Some people act as self-appointed spokespeople on matters Mar 12 01:00
schestowitz It’s not fair Mar 12 01:00
schestowitz Like Microsoft on OSS Mar 12 01:00
schestowitz “move over RMS.. Microsoft knows OSS better” Mar 12 01:00
schestowitz OSS Mar 12 01:00
balzac he wants to waltz into the “linux community” and talk trash about FSF/GNU people? Mar 12 01:01
schestowitz Not FOSS Mar 12 01:01
balzac fsck him Mar 12 01:01
balzac exactly Mar 12 01:01
schestowitz “If you care about money, don’t follow RMS” — Microsoft Mar 12 01:01
schestowitz Like RMS on Linus and freedom Mar 12 01:01
balzac fine, but I’ll fight for the money too. Mar 12 01:01
schestowitz :-) Mar 12 01:01
balzac i love fighting over money Mar 12 01:02
balzac if there’s no fight, there probably isn’t much money involved Mar 12 01:02
balzac no fight, no glory Mar 12 01:02
balzac grab glory! Mar 12 01:02
balzac grab money and then count it in gnu cash Mar 12 01:03
schestowitz Hehe. gnucash Mar 12 01:04
balzac besides, the guy wasn’t just talking trash about free software users, he was directly saying FU! Mar 12 01:04
schestowitz Yes, so you say Mar 12 01:04
balzac there’s a difference between misunderstanding and overtly, gratuitously insulting Mar 12 01:04
schestowitz I won’t read it cause then I might go ballistic Mar 12 01:04
balzac well, he said FU to you, Roy. Mar 12 01:05
schestowitz Like this: Mar 12 01:05
schestowitz http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commo… Mar 12 01:05
schestowitz balzac: I say g’day back Mar 12 01:05
balzac Actually, I respect a guy more who says “FU” directly rather than just lying and pretending not to be hostile. Mar 12 01:05
schestowitz He can talk to the hand Mar 12 01:05
schestowitz Also, it’s bad to give him attention Mar 12 01:05
schestowitz Or to the artcle Mar 12 01:06
schestowitz I avoid Enderle crap for this reason Mar 12 01:06
balzac I disagree Mar 12 01:06
schestowitz So do other editors, bar lxer Mar 12 01:06
schestowitz If you feed them, they’ll drool more Mar 12 01:06
balzac It’s good to go and verbally-clash until they cry out “can’t we all just get along?” Mar 12 01:07
balzac Then you say “ha. i knew you were a cry-baby.” Mar 12 01:07
balzac jk Mar 12 01:07
balzac No mercy! Kobra Kai! Mar 12 01:08
balzac At the end of the day, it’s only joking around. Mar 12 01:10
schestowitz Can you picture Ballmer saying  “can’t we all just get along?” Mar 12 01:11
schestowitz As opposed to say, Cisco’s CEO? Chambers, right? Mar 12 01:12
schestowitz PCLinuxOS 2009.1 Final Released  < http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.p… >. Stupid Munckins in USENET tried to debunk this. Mar 12 01:12
balzac But I got into a debate with this one guy who was actually an “open source” guy. He ended up comparing the FSF to Hamas. Mar 12 01:12
schestowitz LOL Mar 12 01:12
balzac Then he edited his comment to take that out, but I already had seen his first comment. Mar 12 01:13
schestowitz Hamas promotes extreme action Mar 12 01:13
schestowitz FSF promotes freedom and harmony Mar 12 01:13
schestowitz it’s like comparing the hippies to some US militia Mar 12 01:13
balzac yeah, that was an example of the greater internet fuckwad theory: http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2004… Mar 12 01:14
balzac I won’t name names, but I was pretty disappointed in that guy. Even M$ isn’t that nasty, and this was an “open source” guy writing for a free software branded publication Mar 12 01:15
schestowitz Kool-Aid here: Critical Mass < http://danlynch.org/blog/2009… > Mar 12 01:16
Balrog is there a page that shows what percentage of servers online are Windows and what % are linux and other OS? Mar 12 01:19
Balrog I thought netcraft had something of that nature Mar 12 01:19
Balrog I need it now. :/ … someone I know is convinced that ‘microsoft rules the world’ and that ‘php isnt bad, but its unrefined…. its good for some applications, but when you need to handle billions in sales a month, you use asp.net. end of story’ Mar 12 01:19
Balrog anyone know? Mar 12 01:20
Balrog I have to get going, so it would be good to find out. Mar 12 01:22
schestowitz http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2… “Ed Bott is doing his best over at ZDNet to spread the Microsoft religion, with the wonders of Windows 7 extolled nearly each day in a new and different way.” Mar 12 01:26
schestowitz Balrog: Web servers? Mar 12 01:26
schestowitz Ballmer says 60% Linux Mar 12 01:26
Balrog yes, he’s a web developer that uses ASP.NET Mar 12 01:26
Balrog I need verifiable sources online Mar 12 01:26
balzac gnu/linux / *nix ? Mar 12 01:26
schestowitz I have it from Ballmer Mar 12 01:27
Balrog “unbiased” Mar 12 01:27
schestowitz Quote Mar 12 01:27
Balrog yeah but he won’t trust you Mar 12 01:27
schestowitz Not even SweatyB? Mar 12 01:27
Balrog not if it’s from your site Mar 12 01:27
Balrog he’s sold on it Mar 12 01:27
schestowitz No, not mine Mar 12 01:27
schestowitz Wintel press Mar 12 01:27
Balrog link? Mar 12 01:27
schestowitz http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter… Mar 12 01:28
schestowitz “Forty percent of servers run Windows, 60 percent run Linux,” he said. “How  are we doing? Forty is less than 60, so I don’t like it. … We have some work to do.” Mar 12 01:28
Balrog also what about Mar 12 01:28
Balrog PHP vs. ASP.NET? Mar 12 01:28
schestowitz Dunno Mar 12 01:28
schestowitz Judge by merit, not # Mar 12 01:28
Balrog says ‘php isnt bad, but its unrefined…. its good for some applications, but when you need to handle billions in sales a month, you use asp.net. end of story’ Mar 12 01:29
schestowitz Bushtroopers powered by Linux: http://blog.wired.com/defens… Mar 12 01:31
schestowitz Balrog: opposite Mar 12 01:31
schestowitz Show him the LSE disaster Mar 12 01:31
schestowitz Most stock exchanges run UNIX or Linux Mar 12 01:31
Balrog says he’s tried PHP lately Mar 12 01:31
Balrog url? Mar 12 01:32
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/08… Mar 12 01:33
Balrog an external linx Mar 12 01:33
Balrog link * Mar 12 01:33
schestowitz Use the links there Mar 12 01:33
schestowitz Many… about 20 Mar 12 01:33
schestowitz You insult BN? ;-) Mar 12 01:33
schestowitz Not good enough for ya, PUNK? ;-) Mar 12 01:33
schestowitz http://news.opensuse.org/2009/03/1… SUSE fail Mar 12 01:34
schestowitz Maybe SUSE was moved to Mono.NET or something ;-) at Novell’s behest Mar 12 01:35
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schestowitz Another asshole has just forged me…. Mar 12 01:54
schestowitz Posted some anti-Linux stuff under my name in USENET :-( Mar 12 01:54
schestowitz The server dropped me for a while. Mar 12 01:56
schestowitz The following didn’t make it through: Mar 12 01:56
schestowitz <schestowitz> You insult BN? ;-) Mar 12 01:56
schestowitz <schestowitz> Not good enough for ya, PUNK? ;-) Mar 12 01:56
schestowitz <schestowitz> http://news.opensuse.org/2009/03/10… SUSE fail Mar 12 01:56
schestowitz <schestowitz> Maybe SUSE was moved to Mono.NET or something ;-) at Novell’s behest Mar 12 01:56
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balzac Roy, the only thing you can do about that is to call out the imposter in the same venue. Mar 12 02:56
balzac That’s really not cool. Mar 12 02:56
balzac It’s a good thing freenode lets you register your nick Mar 12 02:56
balzac That kind of bullsht happens to noam chomsky all the time Mar 12 02:57
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tessier How’s the market for Linux people? Mar 12 03:51
tessier I’m still employed but not for long, I’m sure. Mar 12 03:51
PeterFA What I find so funny is that the newer the version of Linux or Free software, the faster it gets. Mar 12 03:51
PeterFA KDE4 is faster than 3, Linux 2.6.28 is faster than 2.6.26 Mar 12 03:51
balzac lart Mar 12 04:27
balzac it’s solid i think, if you have some basic wed dev skills and sysadmin skills Mar 12 04:28
balzac . Mar 12 04:44
PeterFA Anyways, I’m an entrepranuer. How could I make money off of Linux and friends? Mar 12 04:44
balzac . Mar 12 04:44
balzac PeterFA: start with using it for your daily tasks Mar 12 04:44
balzac That’s the stage I’m at now, operating as a web developer Mar 12 04:45
PeterFA I’ve been doing that for the past few years :) Mar 12 04:45
balzac also some design Mar 12 04:45
balzac then… Mar 12 04:45
balzac work on your qualifications as a consultant Mar 12 04:45
balzac and broker software license deals Mar 12 04:45
balzac roll out a bunch of gnu/linux installations with support licenses Mar 12 04:45
balzac start first with a free version – it’s already better than windows Mar 12 04:46
balzac then suggest they buy a few support contracts – even one Mar 12 04:46
balzac even if they have 5 ubuntu or redhat installations, get them to buy one support contract at least Mar 12 04:46
balzac and broker those deals Mar 12 04:46
balzac I’m going to ask clients for a commission on savings, so I don’t even have to broker any deals Mar 12 04:47
balzac just block any new deals on proprietary software licenses Mar 12 04:47
balzac and show them the way to the support chatrooms on freenode Mar 12 04:47
balzac get a commission on IT budget savings, the client company doesn’t even have to make any new procurements to save and to pay me consulting fees Mar 12 04:48
balzac I call myself the proprietary software license reaper Mar 12 04:48
balzac enough of these archaic licenses! Mar 12 04:49
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Omar87 Hello everyone Mar 12 05:25
Omar87 And really, Asus are motherf*&%ers!!! (Sorry for that but it really pissed me off) Mar 12 05:26
Omar87 When you browse the EeePC, you find this sentence at to right: “Asus recommends Windows for everyday computing.”! Mar 12 05:28
Omar87 The bastards..! Mar 12 05:28
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schestowitz Morning. Mar 12 09:07
schestowitz tessier: it’s going well. 100k downloads of Fedora in one week. Mar 12 09:08
MinceR j0h0h0 Mar 12 09:15
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MinceR http://news.slashdot.org/article.p… Mar 12 09:38
schestowitz They posion government too Mar 12 09:41
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mib_tkc74k hi Mar 12 10:03
schestowitz Hey there. Mar 12 10:03
mib_tkc74k why do you dislike Silverlight? Mar 12 10:04
schestowitz It’s about turning the Web to Microsoft Web Mar 12 10:05
mib_tkc74k how? Mar 12 10:05
schestowitz Media in particular Mar 12 10:05
schestowitz .NET also Mar 12 10:05
mib_tkc74k by forcing users to use silverlight? Mar 12 10:05
mib_tkc74k but applications are improving the user expirience Mar 12 10:07
schestowitz They are not Mar 12 10:08
schestowitz Only to Microsofters Mar 12 10:08
schestowitz It’s discriminatory by design Mar 12 10:08
schestowitz It’s also non-standard. Mar 12 10:08
schestowitz It’s binary Web. Mar 12 10:08
mib_tkc74k MS is just targeting for the biggest audience I guess Mar 12 10:08
mib_tkc74k and Silverlight works on Mac and Linux too Mar 12 10:09
oiaohm Really his a serious point mib_tkc74k MS codecs for moonlight don’t work on arm ppc…. processes ie x86 only. Mar 12 10:09
oiaohm So no it don’t really work on Mac or Linux it only partly works. Mar 12 10:09
mib_tkc74k mmokay Mar 12 10:09
mib_tkc74k perhaps version 3 will fix that Mar 12 10:10
oiaohm Nop Mar 12 10:10
mib_tkc74k and why not? Mar 12 10:10
oiaohm Codecs from microsoft are binary only. Mar 12 10:10
oiaohm Microsoft don’t make codecs for any other platforms. Mar 12 10:10
oiaohm Other than x86. Mar 12 10:11
mib_tkc74k then why do they claim it works on other platforms? Mar 12 10:11
oiaohm They are claiming OS as a platform leaving out cpu type. Mar 12 10:11
oiaohm arm is required so it works in mobile phones and some cheaper netbooks on the table. Mar 12 10:11
mib_tkc74k what is ‘arm’? Mar 12 10:12
oiaohm Type of processor chip mib_tkc74k Mar 12 10:12
mib_tkc74k okay thnx Mar 12 10:12
oiaohm That uses way different instruction set to x86 and is very power effective. Mar 12 10:13
oiaohm Yes there is a dell laptop with a x86 processor for windows and an arm processor for Linux that will not run moonlight either. Mar 12 10:13
oiaohm Linux mode the laptop gets almost 12 hours runtime compared to 4 hours on the windows ie the difference between arm and x86 is massive in power usage. Mar 12 10:14
oiaohm Now the problem with locking to a CPU type is the most power effective chip designs that may be created you might to be able to use because of what MS and other do. Mar 12 10:15
oiaohm mib_tkc74k: do you not want a laptop that can run for 12 hours straight under load? Mar 12 10:16
mib_tkc74k we’ve got desktops for that.. and my netbook does 6 hours now Mar 12 10:16
oiaohm Arm conversion that netbook most likely could do at least 18 hours. Mar 12 10:17
mib_tkc74k awesome Mar 12 10:18
oiaohm Remember batteries are heavy. Mar 12 10:18
oiaohm Windows desktop OS’s don’t run on ARM. Mar 12 10:18
oiaohm Most windows software don’t run on ARM either. Mar 12 10:18
oiaohm See the problem here lots of people are locked into x86 by there applications and operating system. Mar 12 10:19
oiaohm The hidden value of Open Source. Mar 12 10:20
mib_tkc74k because everybody else uses it.. Mar 12 10:20
oiaohm Go backwards. Mar 12 10:20
oiaohm At the start of computing everyone was using different processor types. Mar 12 10:20
oiaohm People have allowed this to happen to them. Mar 12 10:21
oiaohm Everybody using something is a poor argument. Mar 12 10:22
oiaohm Thinking people like me don’t use Windows because my job does not require it.  To be correct somethings I do cannot be done well on windows. Mar 12 10:23
mib_tkc74k that depends on your job I guess Mar 12 10:23
mib_tkc74k anyway, lunchtime.. bye! Mar 12 10:24
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oiaohm schestowitz: MS defenders are too simple to break. Mar 12 10:25
schestowitz Yes, I know. Mar 12 10:33
schestowitz Silver Lie is not being adopted, so they worry Mar 12 10:34
schestowitz Microsoft bribes businesses to adopt some and then makes noise about it (PR). Adobe has said this (Independent article, I thin) Mar 12 10:35
schestowitz *think Mar 12 10:35
MinceR adobe would be the last entity i’d ask about this :> Mar 12 10:40
schestowitz Alobby Mar 12 10:41
oiaohm Adobe can be as bad as Microsoft. Mar 12 10:42
schestowitz Atheist Life vs Religious Life < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaO… > Mar 12 11:02
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oiaohm Hmm buddist really dis argree with most of what he is saying. Mar 12 11:47
oiaohm Ie that is only Atheist that believe that. Mar 12 11:47
Eruaran hello Mar 12 11:49
oiaohm Hi Eruaran Mar 12 11:50
Eruaran Any interesting developments ? Mar 12 11:50
oiaohm Other than a person trying to make moonlight sound positive not much. Mar 12 11:51
Eruaran I used to suggest they go get a job at Redmond Mar 12 11:52
Eruaran But I don’t think Redmond is hiring anymore ;) Mar 12 11:52
schestowitz Hehe. Mar 12 11:52
schestowitz They cut wages too, so people will find a more ethical job Mar 12 11:52
schestowitz It’s important to remember how many jobs Microsoft destroyes Mar 12 11:53
schestowitz *yed Mar 12 11:53
Eruaran yes Mar 12 11:53
schestowitz And how many jobs will be created once it’s being ‘Unisysed’ Mar 12 11:53
Eruaran A customer came in today asking for a netbook with a ssd and linux Mar 12 11:54
Eruaran we found they are thin on the ground Mar 12 11:54
oiaohm So they are. Mar 12 11:54
oiaohm I am having more companies asking me about software cost cutting. Mar 12 11:55
oiaohm Good for business really. Mar 12 11:55
Eruaran So, the articles announcing victory for XP based on real demand are false… the reality is the customers who want them cant get them Mar 12 11:55
Eruaran The only Asus models available with Linux are the original 7″ ones Mar 12 11:56
Eruaran The rest are Windows Mar 12 11:56
schestowitz Eruaran: the US/AU is not ‘world’ Mar 12 11:57
schestowitz The Linux sub-notebooks are big in the EU Mar 12 11:57
Eruaran So, this guy is going to buy one of the Atom based ones with a SSD, pay the Windows tax and he wants us to install eeebuntu on it for him Mar 12 11:57
schestowitz About 40% market share from what I’ve read Mar 12 11:57
Eruaran What Im saying is there is a concerted effort here to make sure supply is non-existant Mar 12 11:58
schestowitz Eruaran: ASUS told out Mar 12 11:58
schestowitz It said so Mar 12 11:58
schestowitz Now it received payments from Microsoft to advertise Winodows Mar 12 11:58
schestowitz Omar showed this earlier Mar 12 11:58
schestowitz They fell for the “OEM recommends” scam too Mar 12 11:58
Eruaran I believe Microsoft gave them Windows XP gratis Mar 12 11:58
schestowitz yes Mar 12 11:58
schestowitz But there’s more Mar 12 11:58
oiaohm MS gave them XP gratis on the idea at a later date with windows 7 they will be able to lift the price. Mar 12 11:59
oiaohm ie crush Linux move. Mar 12 11:59
oiaohm Somehow I don’t think its working. Mar 12 11:59
Eruaran Windows 7 “Starter Edition” = Fail. Mar 12 11:59
Eruaran The irony here is that our customers at least haven’t stopped using Linux Mar 12 11:59
Eruaran The installed base simply becomes invisible again while Linux users buy netbooks with XP on them, only to install Linux when they get home Mar 12 12:00
schestowitz Eruaran: sadly for Microsoft, Linuc can’t due Mar 12 12:00
schestowitz Microsoft is used to strangulation tactics being possible Mar 12 12:00
schestowitz I.e. spend billions jut ensuring the competition can’t make revenue and then starves Mar 12 12:01
schestowitz Then the prices can be inflated again Mar 12 12:01
Eruaran yes Mar 12 12:01
schestowitz it’s a deficientcy in the market Mar 12 12:01
oiaohm Linux is not something you can stave out. Mar 12 12:01
schestowitz The way it’s set up Mar 12 12:01
schestowitz *deficiency Mar 12 12:01
oiaohm Its been staved for its complete existance. Mar 12 12:01
oiaohm So Linux is 100 percent use to operating that way. Mar 12 12:01
Eruaran Our sales figures are probably 99% Windows XP Mar 12 12:02
schestowitz The only one starving now is Microsoft Mar 12 12:02
schestowitz And it’s entering debt Mar 12 12:02
Eruaran The reality of the installed base we work with is vastly different though Mar 12 12:02
schestowitz It’ll owe money to bank Mar 12 12:02
schestowitz *banks Mar 12 12:02
Eruaran For example Mar 12 12:02
schestowitz And what’s the assurance Mar 12 12:02
schestowitz What does Microsoft tell the bank? Mar 12 12:02
schestowitz “Look, we’ll be profitable and pay back because……..?” Mar 12 12:02
Eruaran A recent netbook customer purchased an XP netbook… but we know he installed Ubuntu on it Mar 12 12:02
schestowitz Because Vista has a new version? Mar 12 12:02
schestowitz Because XBox360 isn’t sold (at a loss) in the tough economy? Mar 12 12:03
schestowitz because Windows Mobile is dying? Mar 12 12:03
schestowitz because the price of Windows sinks to $5? Mar 12 12:03
Eruaran A guy who came in yesterday looking at Linux Mint took a disk home and installed it on his system last night… he came in and told me today and chatted about it Mar 12 12:03
schestowitz Because SAAS is hurting Office? Mar 12 12:03
schestowitz Eruaran: cool. Mar 12 12:03
oiaohm That is the other thing Eruaran Linux guys are not hidding what they were doing any more. Mar 12 12:03
Eruaran Out of these the only sale we have on the books that mentions Linux is a Fujitsu a1110 which is being sold as a dual boot XP/Ubuntu Mar 12 12:04
oiaohm Asus has splashtop that is not counted in Linux numbers Mar 12 12:04
Eruaran The customer requested this setup saying, “I’ve got friends who are using it (Ubuntu)” Mar 12 12:04
schestowitz oiaohm: what #s? Mar 12 12:05
Eruaran The installed base of Linux users is a vastly different picture compared to anyone’s official sales figures Mar 12 12:05
schestowitz Who cares about numbers? Mar 12 12:05
schestowitz People with shareholders do Mar 12 12:05
schestowitz Marketers Mar 12 12:05
oiaohm Exactly schestowitz Mar 12 12:05
schestowitz If Linux quietly maintains 7% on the desktop (places like Brazil), do you mind that people won’t know it? Mar 12 12:05
oiaohm If MS shareholders see bad numbers how long before they leave the sinking ship and make it sink faster. Mar 12 12:06
schestowitz ballmer ranks Linux above Apple Mar 12 12:06
schestowitz And Apple market cap is huge Mar 12 12:06
schestowitz What does that tell you about MS’ intelligence reports? Mar 12 12:06
oiaohm Apple is not a threat to MS. Mar 12 12:06
oiaohm Never will be at the rate they are going. Mar 12 12:06
schestowitz Yes, I know Mar 12 12:06
oiaohm The bound to hardware bit limits Apples threat. Mar 12 12:06
schestowitz They target rich families Mar 12 12:06
schestowitz For iPhone ($1000+), MacBooks, etc. Mar 12 12:07
schestowitz Apple can’t sustain this model around the world Mar 12 12:07
oiaohm MS bound to x86 is one of MS weak points. Mar 12 12:07
schestowitz And Mac OS X won’t run on much hardware Mar 12 12:07
oiaohm That should be around until at least 2012 Mar 12 12:07
schestowitz Not even if it were ‘opened’ Mar 12 12:07
schestowitz [to other PCs] Mar 12 12:07
schestowitz Primitive BSD Mar 12 12:07
oiaohm Apple uses cpus Mar 12 12:07
schestowitz But they have CUPS for the rest of those devices.. Mar 12 12:08
oiaohm cups for printer drivrs. Mar 12 12:08
schestowitz oiaohm: beat me to it Mar 12 12:08
schestowitz ARM will grow? Mar 12 12:08
oiaohm Had to hapen but my english went to hell. Mar 12 12:08
schestowitz Seen the reports about it? Mar 12 12:08
oiaohm ARM most likely will grow. Mar 12 12:08
oiaohm ARM is also not like x86.  There are lots of different ARM processor makers. Mar 12 12:09
oiaohm Including intel and amd. Mar 12 12:09
schestowitz here’s one that I found 1 hour ago: http://blog.laptopmag.com/analyst-arm-pow… Mar 12 12:09
*jose (n=jose@adsl-233-56-179.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 12 12:09
schestowitz “Intel’s Atom processor has some fierce competition coming from ARM, if you believe Information Network President Robert Castellano. According to the EE Times, Castellano says that ARM based processors will hold 55 percent of the netbook market by 2012.” Mar 12 12:09
jose hey Mar 12 12:09
schestowitz Hey, jose Mar 12 12:09
jose check something interesting Mar 12 12:09
jose http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_st… Mar 12 12:09
oiaohm Atom is still stuck with a instruction set that does not suit being power effective. Mar 12 12:10
jose not sure if kodak is being paid for that .. or maybe there is a project tech swich Mar 12 12:10
jose or maybe i made a mistake Mar 12 12:10
Eruaran ARM is cheaper and more efficient Mar 12 12:10
schestowitz oiaohm: of course Mar 12 12:10
schestowitz jose: Kodak and Mirosoft got together Mar 12 12:11
schestowitz Bill Foundry put tons of money in Kodak last month Mar 12 12:11
jose yeah, but the project seems 100% qt Mar 12 12:11
schestowitz Some said it was for DRM Mar 12 12:11
schestowitz Or HD Mar 12 12:11
jose the ad is for mono.. doesn’t even mention qt Mar 12 12:11
Eruaran And manufacturers certainly wont care about offending Intel if they are losing market share to new ARM based competitors who have none of that baggage Mar 12 12:11
schestowitz Let me see….. Mar 12 12:11
schestowitz Wow, jose Mar 12 12:13
oiaohm Yep the project is qt jose.  Its a competior to sane. Mar 12 12:13
schestowitz Good find Mar 12 12:13
schestowitz I wondered about some Microsoft-Kodak connections Mar 12 12:13
schestowitz Can I reproduce your comment in full in BN? Mar 12 12:13
jose this looks like the main project page Mar 12 12:13
jose http://sourceforge.net/proj… Mar 12 12:13
oiaohm http://www.twain.org/ Mar 12 12:13
jose notice it mentions qt Mar 12 12:13
oiaohm Read what twain 2.0 is jose then it makes perfect sence. Mar 12 12:14
jose also, i dug inside and found everything to suggest it was qt with zero mono Mar 12 12:14
jose twain comes from ms standard on windows for scanners and such right Mar 12 12:14
oiaohm Twian 2.0 is cross platform Linux and Mac including. Mar 12 12:14
oiaohm Not just MS anymore. Mar 12 12:14
jose sure and what does that have to do with this Mar 12 12:14
oiaohm scantwain is the cross platform refrence thing. Mar 12 12:15
oiaohm That you test your drivers against. Mar 12 12:15
jose keep going Mar 12 12:15
oiaohm Ok I will have to cover a little history so you know what happened to twain. Mar 12 12:16
jose >> the availability of a robust, open source and production quality scanning application for use on the LINUX Operating System called ScanTWAIN. Mar 12 12:16
Eruaran Qt 3.x ? Mar 12 12:16
jose it’s a project with old roots.. back to 2005 apparently Mar 12 12:17
oiaohm That is correct. Mar 12 12:17
jose what i want to know is why is the project qt-ish yet the press release mentions mono? Mar 12 12:17
jose did i or did someone make a mistake somewhere Mar 12 12:17
Eruaran Maybe it has been infiltrated by mono drones Mar 12 12:17
jose maybe i’m looking at the wrong project or maybe it was misnamed Mar 12 12:17
jose download it Mar 12 12:18
jose look inside Mar 12 12:18
jose it’s not that large Mar 12 12:18
jose 10 – 20 cpp and h files Mar 12 12:18
jose is the bulk of it Mar 12 12:18
jose look inside them Mar 12 12:18
jose there is even a .kdevelop file Mar 12 12:18
jose did not see anything that might look like mono (i admit i might not recognize it if i did) Mar 12 12:19
oiaohm You are looking at the front end not the driver. Mar 12 12:19
oiaohm Yes evil of evil.  One driver everywhere. Mar 12 12:19
jose can you look at the press release and point out the problem? .. let me look again Mar 12 12:19
jose >> Mar 12 12:19
jose LINUX distributions which are fully supported (user interface requires Mono Version 1.26 or higher): Mar 12 12:19
jose >> “Kodak is pleased to offer new image scanning capabilities and solutions via ScanTWAIN and our TWAIN 2.0 data source, or driver, for LINUX Operating Systems.” Mar 12 12:20
oiaohm Scantwain don’t include the drivers for the scanners. Mar 12 12:20
jose that’s the name of the project scantwain Mar 12 12:20
oiaohm scantwain is a front end. Mar 12 12:21
jose the press release says mono is needed for the gui Mar 12 12:21
jose i go and look at project by that name and it has gui of qt Mar 12 12:21
oiaohm Read more carefully it is after supported drivers. Mar 12 12:21
jose why don’t you quote Mar 12 12:22
oiaohm Twain drivers can open up there own user interface. Mar 12 12:22
jose i haven’t slept much (running on 2 hrs and past due) Mar 12 12:22
jose but i don’t see the mistake i might have made Mar 12 12:22
oiaohm So you have Scantwain what is the interface to use the driver. Mar 12 12:22
oiaohm And the driver that also can put up a interface. Mar 12 12:22
oiaohm So you need graphical interface support for both. Mar 12 12:23
oiaohm Yes Twain driver design insanity. Mar 12 12:23
jose let me ask this.. how would i get to pop up the mono gui? Mar 12 12:24
jose through sane? how exactly? Mar 12 12:24
jose is it a kodak propri interface? Mar 12 12:24
jose oiaohm, do you not see what i mean? why i can’t find any mono anywhere? Mar 12 12:25
jose >> The ScanTWAIN scanning application is available via the SourceForge website and is issued under GPL, Gnu Public License, version 2. Mar 12 12:25
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