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03.13.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 13th, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 11:23 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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balzac looks like palamida’s gplv3 page is gone Mar 13 00:00
balzac http://gpl3.palamida.com/ Mar 13 00:00
schestowitz Oh Mar 13 00:00
schestowitz Well, they stoped maintaining it Mar 13 00:00
schestowitz No interns to do this anymore Mar 13 00:00
schestowitz I wonder if they swindle as a biz Mar 13 00:00
schestowitz Also, they used to link to us Mar 13 00:00
schestowitz They mailed me quite a few times Mar 13 00:00
Balrog maybe they are doing a website-redesign Mar 13 00:01
balzac hmm… Mar 13 00:01
balzac maybe they changed their tune – after a change in management… Mar 13 00:02
balzac it never hurts to be paranoid Mar 13 00:02
Balrog don’t attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity Mar 13 00:02
Balrog or so I heard Mar 13 00:02
schestowitz Balrog: it’s blogspot no? Mar 13 00:03
Balrog there’s no proof, so let’s investigate first Mar 13 00:03
schestowitz I though they redirected or something. Mar 13 00:03
schestowitz balzac: I read about some changes there. Mar 13 00:03
schestowitz I can’t recall which positions were shuffled or whatever Mar 13 00:03
schestowitz But they made some press release 1-2 months ago Mar 13 00:04
schestowitz They did an INVALUABLE services to GPLv3 Mar 13 00:04
schestowitz But RMS wasn’t a fan of it (he told me). They try to make money from all this Mar 13 00:04
balzac it was exciting to read the updates Mar 13 00:05
schestowitz balzac: http://www.google.com/news?hl=en&amp… Mar 13 00:05
balzac but they didn’t keep it up, nor enlist anyone else Mar 13 00:05
schestowitz “Palamida Assembles an Open Source Toolkit For Job Seekers  [...] Palamida Expands Detection Capability to Include 34621 Open Source …” Mar 13 00:06
schestowitz http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-s… Mar 13 00:06
balzac really, it ought to be the FSF that maintains the count Mar 13 00:06
balzac but the FSF is under-staffed and under-funded Mar 13 00:06
Balrog count of… Mar 13 00:06
Balrog ? Mar 13 00:06
schestowitz http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentl… (New Bill Would Create New Accounting Regulator) Mar 13 00:07
balzac the biggest lack being the lack of enough people who “get it” to staff the FSF Mar 13 00:07
balzac Balrog: the count of GPLv3 licensed projects, which Palamida used to maintain Mar 13 00:07
Balrog ah. Mar 13 00:07
schestowitz It doesn’t matter anymore Mar 13 00:07
schestowitz It goes well for GPLv3 Mar 13 00:07
balzac I suppose not. Mar 13 00:08
schestowitz They helped kickstarted it Mar 13 00:08
schestowitz Kicked the myths Mar 13 00:08
*tessier_ heads down to the LUG meeting Mar 13 00:08
balzac But Linus Torvalds needs to meditate on this situation. Mar 13 00:08
schestowitz *kick-start (not past tense) Mar 13 00:08
balzac tessier: please ask them to call it a GLUG Mar 13 00:08
schestowitz balzac: Linus will come around, I hope Mar 13 00:08
balzac me too Mar 13 00:08
schestowitz If he’s not poisoned by marketing people like Zemlin. Mar 13 00:08
schestowitz Tiemann would be a good fit Mar 13 00:08
schestowitz he’s pro business and to a good extent he “gets” it Mar 13 00:09
schestowitz Did you see Revolution OS? Mar 13 00:09
balzac but I’m hoping a lot more than Linus will come around regarding issues which “open source” people have not been able to grasp Mar 13 00:09
balzac The people with the money need to recognize and kick down enough money that the FSF doesn’t even know what to do with it. Mar 13 00:09
balzac and GNU Mar 13 00:09
balzac What about the potential of the Hurd? Mar 13 00:09
balzac Roy, I read a link to something RMS said about features he’d like to see in the HURD and it was like the design of *nix operating systems were set to begin advancing again. Mar 13 00:10
schestowitz If Linu goes GPLv3, then it’s OK Mar 13 00:10
schestowitz And kicks out some blobs Mar 13 00:10
schestowitz Remember the petition (ish)? Mar 13 00:10
balzac I found the link right on BN Mar 13 00:10
schestowitz Linus didn’t sign it Mar 13 00:10
schestowitz he wasn’t on vacation, either Mar 13 00:10
balzac weasel Mar 13 00:10
schestowitz I checked at the time Mar 13 00:10
balzac it’s because he’s a square Mar 13 00:11
schestowitz Mrket share. Mar 13 00:11
schestowitz Linus everywhere :-) Mar 13 00:11
schestowitz Freedom later. Mar 13 00:11
balzac seems like it Mar 13 00:11
schestowitz But I think he chose GPLv3 for devs Mar 13 00:11
balzac or not Mar 13 00:11
schestowitz You dug into his iverview Mar 13 00:11
schestowitz circa 2001 Mar 13 00:11
balzac ? Mar 13 00:12
schestowitz Where he talks about working with people with beards Mar 13 00:12
schestowitz And funny feelings about GPL Mar 13 00:12
balzac i’ll look it up Mar 13 00:12
schestowitz His explanation anyway Mar 13 00:12
schestowitz You put it in FSDaily Mar 13 00:12
schestowitz Deep link Mar 13 00:12
schestowitz Minute 3x:000 Mar 13 00:12
schestowitz Al Viro used to post in COLA (USENET), not he’s top patcher in LInux Mar 13 00:12
balzac Virtually all users of Linux (and all other Mar 13 00:14
balzac forms of Un*x) are unkempt, longhaired, beast-bearded dirty GNU hippies, and Mar 13 00:14
balzac I am sick and tired of having to deal with them. Mar 13 00:14
balzac well, he has a sense of humor, so I’m not taking that at face value Mar 13 00:14
balzac but it reminds me so much of Markos Moulitsas, the gate-keeper, blocker of impeachment, the man who takes it upon himself to criticize Kucinich Mar 13 00:15
Balrog read this? http://lwn.net/Articles/200422/ Mar 13 00:15
balzac Agreed. One thing that made Linux so successful (over other GPL-licensed OS projects like Hurd): we do as little politics as possible. – Mingo Mar 13 00:16
balzac yeah right! Mar 13 00:17
schestowitz Peter Brown is no “hippie” Mar 13 00:17
balzac I believe the HURD project was quite deliberately disenfranchised. Mar 13 00:17
schestowitz Balrog: many objected without reading it! Mar 13 00:17
schestowitz They acted as Linus yet men Mar 13 00:17
Balrog really? Mar 13 00:17
Balrog that’s not good :( Mar 13 00:17
balzac well, Linus apparently discourages discussing politics Mar 13 00:18
balzac so if you ask any deeper questions, you’re in the way of making efficient, open source, corporate software Mar 13 00:18
balzac RMS will discuss politics and have opinions because he’s a socially-influential visionary, not a corporate tool Mar 13 00:18
schestowitz PJ – Mar 13 00:19
schestowitz PJ defended GPLv3 Mar 13 00:19
balzac P?J Mar 13 00:20
balzac oops Mar 13 00:20
schestowitz When Linus attacked RMS in GL comments PJ deleted his comment Mar 13 00:20
balzac pamela jones Mar 13 00:20
balzac groklaw Mar 13 00:20
schestowitz It was too read for Groklaq Mar 13 00:20
balzac heheh Mar 13 00:20
schestowitz i put it in digg Mar 13 00:20
Balrog Linus and RMS post on Groklaw? Mar 13 00:20
schestowitz front page Mar 13 00:20
Balrog link Mar 13 00:20
schestowitz hold on Mar 13 00:21
schestowitz http://m.digg.com/linux_unix/Linus_To… Mar 13 00:21
balzac heheh Mar 13 00:21
balzac Now, because I don’t want anyone to miss the meat of what you said, here it is without the sauce: Mar 13 00:22
balzac she stung him. Mar 13 00:22
schestowitz he hasnt commened since Mar 13 00:23
schestowitz not that i saw it Mar 13 00:23
Balrog “make your decisions based on fear and loathing” … what about Novell and now Tom-Tom …??? Mar 13 00:23
balzac “My explanation for why the GPLv3 is bad is that if you make your decisions based on fear and loathing, they will be the wrong ones.” Linus Torvalds Mar 13 00:23
balzac Linus really is wound up about RMS Mar 13 00:23
balzac what a square Mar 13 00:23
Balrog now that fear is becoming reality Mar 13 00:23
Balrog :[ Mar 13 00:23
schestowitz linus is afraid now Mar 13 00:23
balzac he needs to ____ or get off the pot Mar 13 00:23
schestowitz poj linked to it again last month Mar 13 00:23
zoobab01 what the Linux devs needs is a good patent lawsuit against kernel.org Mar 13 00:24
schestowitz all of a suddemn he discovred sw pats Mar 13 00:24
*schestowitz eats Mar 13 00:24
balzac either that, or a kernel coup is needed to get things moving again… Mar 13 00:24
schestowitz hodld on Mar 13 00:24
balzac well, that’s enough sedition for now Mar 13 00:24
balzac There’s got to be some money scraped together for the Hurd so people have a choice of running a GPL’ed operating system without being subject to Lord Torvalds’ impetuousness. Mar 13 00:25
balzac either that, or enough people get interested in developing it Mar 13 00:25
Balrog hurd has its problems :( Mar 13 00:26
Balrog use a bsd kernel Mar 13 00:26
schestowitz yes! Mar 13 00:26
Balrog it can be relicensed with GPLv3, can it not? Mar 13 00:26
balzac well, the project is what I’m talking about, not an out-of-date code base Mar 13 00:26
schestowitz http://m.digg.com/linux_unix/Linus_Torva… Mar 13 00:26
balzac probably it all needs to be refactored Mar 13 00:26
schestowitz OOPs Mar 13 00:26
Balrog yeah :/ Mar 13 00:26
schestowitz this one: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/03… Mar 13 00:26
Balrog MS is not in good shape Mar 13 00:27
schestowitz doa Mar 13 00:27
balzac ok, I’ve got to fly Mar 13 00:27
balzac ttyl Mar 13 00:27
Balrog talk later Mar 13 00:27
*schestowitz done eating (can typo properly) Mar 13 00:27
schestowitz balzac: have a ice ‘flight’ Mar 13 00:29
schestowitz *nice Mar 13 00:29
*Smari is trying to wrap his head around the topic. Mar 13 00:32
twitter ah, now here’s a fun story http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?… Mar 13 00:34
twitter Windows 7 won’t fix M$’s netbook revenue hole. Mar 13 00:34
twitter slap Mar 13 00:34
Balrog twitter: please don’t use ‘M$’ in slashdot attempts Mar 13 00:34
twitter from all M$’s usual buddies Mar 13 00:34
Balrog won’t get you anywhere Mar 13 00:34
Smari Getting Slashdotted ain’t all it’s made up to be. Mar 13 00:36
Balrog I know, I know… Mar 13 00:36
twitter I refuse to type the name, it wastes my time, but I will hit one extra key to make the standard, jargon file abbreviation Mar 13 00:36
Balrog use ‘MS’ Mar 13 00:36
Balrog that will work fine Mar 13 00:36
twitter Getting the news out is fun. Mar 13 00:36
twitter M$ works for me. Mar 13 00:36
Balrog the ‘$’ is a bit too ‘radical’ in this case Mar 13 00:36
Balrog unfortunately Mar 13 00:36
twitter http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/217907 Mar 13 00:36
twitter don’t tell me what to do. Mar 13 00:37
twitter I get enough of that from people who mean me harm. Mar 13 00:37
schestowitz http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux_compa… “Time to Sue or Prosecute MS for racketeering” Mar 13 00:37
twitter M$ is still funny to me, and it makes the trolls so angry. Mar 13 00:38
Balrog and it makes sure no articles get modded up Mar 13 00:38
Balrog that was my point Mar 13 00:38
twitter my articles are modded down regardless Mar 13 00:39
twitter It’s not because of my language, it’s because M$ does not like what I say. Mar 13 00:39
twitter They can’t really argue with what I say, so they smear me and play games with the mod system. Mar 13 00:40
twitter I’m happy to say that it does not work for them Mar 13 00:40
Balrog well some critical-to-MS articles have been slashdotted lately Mar 13 00:40
schestowitz I agree with Balrog Mar 13 00:40
twitter Self censorship is self defeating. Mar 13 00:40
Balrog no, use it Mar 13 00:40
Balrog on your blog, other places like that Mar 13 00:40
Balrog slashdot should be kept a little more ‘civil’ Mar 13 00:40
schestowitz All-time high in 2008 I see.. Mar 13 00:41
schestowitz The edtitors overwrite the “M$” Mar 13 00:41
twitter when you go down the path of letting others tell you what to do, you end up avoiding important concepts like “freedom” to be “polite” and not look “radical” Mar 13 00:41
twitter The editors have quit overwriting the M$ Mar 13 00:41
Balrog what about this page: Mar 13 00:41
Balrog http://news.slashdot.org/article… Mar 13 00:41
Balrog but then again, people don’t like kdawson Mar 13 00:42
schestowitz Which people? Mar 13 00:42
schestowitz Trolls? Mar 13 00:42
twitter people don’t like RMS, ERS, Bruce Perens …. Mar 13 00:42
twitter trolls Mar 13 00:42
schestowitz I see the cowboykneel[sic] slurs too Mar 13 00:43
schestowitz *ESR Mar 13 00:43
twitter woops Mar 13 00:43
Balrog yeah, mostly trolls Mar 13 00:43
Balrog kdawson is known to post controversial stuff Mar 13 00:43
Balrog in any case, this tom-tom mess is causing people to wake up Mar 13 00:43
twitter I think you get the point.  You should not let the trolls tell you that truth is controversial and what words or expressions to use. Mar 13 00:44
twitter Words control your thoughts. Mar 13 00:44
twitter Control people’s language and you have won most of your arguments before they spew your talking points for you. Mar 13 00:44
twitter bbl Mar 13 00:45
Balrog http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/0… Mar 13 00:52
Balrog about that topic Mar 13 00:53
schestowitz yes, seen it Mar 13 00:53
schestowitz scrool down Mar 13 00:53
Balrog yes? Mar 13 00:53
schestowitz You’re trackbacking it again Mar 13 00:53
schestowitz I also posted this in USENET Mar 13 00:53
schestowitz useful reference to have Mar 13 00:53
Balrog Dilger makes interesting posts. Mar 13 00:54
schestowitz Yes, but not many of them anymore Mar 13 00:54
Balrog yes, he’s pro-Apple, but much of what he says makes a lot of sense Mar 13 00:54
Balrog he’s not making many posts *at all* :( Mar 13 00:54
Balrog once a week; twice if you’re lucky Mar 13 00:54
Balrog the appleinsider ones (by “Prince McLean”) don’t count Mar 13 00:55
Balrog seems like I successfully tore out Mono from my Gentoo system Mar 13 00:56
schestowitz Testing Ubuntu Jaunty and Ext4 WITHOUT Trashing Your Data  < http://www.automaticable.com/2009-03-12/testing… >. The Microsoft shills have some fun with this Mar 13 00:56
Balrog Moonlight 1.0.1 is still there, but it’s easy to remove if I need to do that :) Mar 13 00:56
schestowitz Balrog: congrats. WTF was it there for in the first place? Mar 13 00:56
Balrog got pulled in some way Mar 13 00:57
schestowitz emerge mononono Mar 13 00:57
Balrog Moonlight 1.0.x is very simple; doesn’t depend on any mono Mar 13 00:57
Balrog some deps Mar 13 00:57
Balrog and I had no ‘-mono’ use flah Mar 13 00:57
Balrog s/h/g Mar 13 00:57
schestowitz LOL. Jaunty: Apt is broken? Move to another country! < http://maratux.blogspot.com/2009/03/jau… > Mar 13 00:58
schestowitz pin Smari Mar 13 00:58
schestowitz *ping Mar 13 00:58
Smari hm Mar 13 00:58
Balrog let’s do depclean… Mar 13 00:58
Smari ya Mar 13 00:58
schestowitz Did you find the EDGI links? Mar 13 00:59
schestowitz It’s those pages that get most attention Mar 13 00:59
schestowitz The darkest secrets of the company. Mar 13 00:59
schestowitz Also “evangelism” courses Mar 13 00:59
schestowitz The arts of turning dumping to charity Mar 13 00:59
Smari Edgi stuff seems to be very slim.. Mar 13 01:00
schestowitz how so? Mar 13 01:00
schestowitz There are many long posts Mar 13 01:00
schestowitz Some exhibits are over 20 pages long Mar 13 01:00
Smari Then I’m doing it wrong. Mar 13 01:00
schestowitz With list of EDGIed deployment in various countries Mar 13 01:01
schestowitz Summary here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01… Mar 13 01:01
Smari Ah Mar 13 01:04
schestowitz There’s tons more Mar 13 01:04
schestowitz Lots more to come later this year: http://boycottnovell.com/wiki Mar 13 01:04
Smari nice Mar 13 01:05
Smari I’ll have to check this later… got to sleep Mar 13 01:06
Balrog schestowitz: ok to keep moonlight around for now? Mar 13 01:06
schestowitz be back later.. Mar 13 01:06
Balrog :/ Mar 13 01:06
schestowitz Balrog: no. Mar 13 01:06
Smari I shall! Mar 13 01:06
schestowitz Reject it Mar 13 01:06
Balrog ok. Easy enough to remove, in any case. Mar 13 01:06
schestowitz Moonlight is already rejected by Fedora Mar 13 01:06
schestowitz Red Hat too, to an extent Mar 13 01:07
schestowitz It’s a Microsoft products Mar 13 01:07
schestowitz They support and help it Mar 13 01:07
Balrog We’re stuck in a way, due to coursecast Mar 13 01:07
schestowitz It elevates Microsoft patents Mar 13 01:07
schestowitz Leverages the monopoly Mar 13 01:07
Balrog http://www.panopto.com/ Mar 13 01:07
schestowitz Miguel develops some of it at Microsoft, literally. Mar 13 01:07
Balrog http://www.panopto.com/products_coursecast.aspx Mar 13 01:07
Balrog based on silverlight 2 Mar 13 01:07
schestowitz No Linux support Mar 13 01:08
Balrog nope. Mar 13 01:08
schestowitz Silver Lie is not intended to work Mar 13 01:08
Balrog :( Mar 13 01:08
schestowitz They should use standards Mar 13 01:08
schestowitz Even Flash is better than Silver Lie Mar 13 01:08
schestowitz At least Linux is supported Mar 13 01:08
schestowitz Silver Lie != Moon Lie Mar 13 01:08
schestowitz Just a Novell Big Lie Mar 13 01:08
Balrog I know … :( Mar 13 01:08
_Hicham_ are u sure fedora rejected mono? Mar 13 01:09
schestowitz silverlight is not flash: http://boycottnovell.com/2008… Mar 13 01:09
schestowitz That’s the shortest explanation I could come up withat the time (over  ayear ago) Mar 13 01:09
schestowitz _Hicham_: moonlight Mar 13 01:09
schestowitz Not mono Mar 13 01:09
Balrog I hear that Fedora 10 livecd has no mono Mar 13 01:09
schestowitz _Hicham_: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06… Mar 13 01:09
schestowitz Balrog: yes Mar 13 01:09
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?q=site:… Mar 13 01:10
schestowitz For details about Mono and Fedora in general (links in between as well + context) Mar 13 01:10
PeterFA So, what do you think is slowing the adoption of Linux/Free-Free software? Mar 13 01:11
_Hicham_ moonlight isnt in ubuntu either Mar 13 01:12
schestowitz PeterFA: to an extent the patent attacks too Mar 13 01:13
schestowitz Like SCO Mar 13 01:13
schestowitz We can just pretend it makes no difference Mar 13 01:13
Balrog why is Mono anywhere anyway? it doesn’t do anything for me… Mar 13 01:13
PeterFA How do patent attacks stop Linux adoption? Mar 13 01:13
schestowitz People tell me the CIO points at Microsoft’s FOrbes placements with threats Mar 13 01:13
PeterFA Threats didn’t stop the pirating of music files. Mar 13 01:13
schestowitz PeterFA: they can slow it down Mar 13 01:13
schestowitz Like a bully with a baseball bat keeping you at home Mar 13 01:14
PeterFA Hmm. Mar 13 01:14
PeterFA I guess Microsoft is just building the situation expecting a fall. Mar 13 01:14
PeterFA This way they can go down fighting. Mar 13 01:14
Balrog MS is desperate Mar 13 01:14
PeterFA And maybe steal some money from the Linux market. Mar 13 01:14
schestowitz PeterFA: yes, SCO too Mar 13 01:15
PeterFA Balrog, do you think Microsoft is in serious condition? Mar 13 01:15
schestowitz They have nothing to lose now Mar 13 01:15
Balrog I think they are…they’re killing projects left and right Mar 13 01:15
schestowitz PeterFA: not maybe, they already do Mar 13 01:15
Balrog even ones that have been around for years Mar 13 01:15
schestowitz Microsoft already makes money from Linux sales Mar 13 01:15
Balrog like flight simulator Mar 13 01:15
schestowitz Since like 3 years ago, at least Mar 13 01:15
Balrog sold millions of copies, yet they kill il Mar 13 01:15
Balrog s/i/t Mar 13 01:15
schestowitz Allison knew about this long ago Mar 13 01:15
schestowitz He spoke to the press about it Mar 13 01:15
Balrog s/i/l Mar 13 01:15
schestowitz He speaks to me too Mar 13 01:15
PeterFA Microsoft only makes money from Office and Windows. Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz Preety much Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz Office in particular Mar 13 01:16
PeterFA Everything else fails. Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz Windows is saddled onto PCs Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz For mere buckls Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz Because of Linux Mar 13 01:16
PeterFA Yeah, and enter Google Docs and Open Office. Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz Microsoft is afraid of Docs Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz it’s shills attack it Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz Also its former employees Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz From new shell Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz *shells Mar 13 01:16
schestowitz Like that recent ‘study’… turns out to come from former undeercover Softie Mar 13 01:17
PeterFA I should use Google Docs for the sheer principle of it. Mar 13 01:17
schestowitz Lies and dman lies and all that.. Mar 13 01:17
schestowitz PeterFA: no, use ooo Mar 13 01:17
schestowitz SaaS lockin Mar 13 01:17
schestowitz Google is also no without faults Mar 13 01:17
schestowitz http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2009/… Mar 13 01:19
schestowitz Microsoft plans to attack Wine Mar 13 01:19
schestowitz It’s the app that will knock the last nail on its coffin Mar 13 01:19
PeterFA schestowitz, how? Mar 13 01:19
schestowitz zoobab01: Mar 13 01:19
Balrog attack wine???? Mar 13 01:19
schestowitz see Easter 2007 disclosure re: Novell/MS Mar 13 01:19
schestowitz Wine is there. Mar 13 01:19
schestowitz They screw the devs Mar 13 01:19
PeterFA Can the bottle withstand the chair? Mar 13 01:19
Balrog what about TransGaming? Mar 13 01:19
Balrog they’re working on DX10 support Mar 13 01:20
schestowitz Yes Mar 13 01:20
schestowitz Microsoft ain’t happy Mar 13 01:20
Balrog and to comply with LGPL, will have to give it back to WINE Mar 13 01:20
schestowitz It’s like dancing on Micfrosoft’s grave Mar 13 01:20
PeterFA The funny thing about Wine is that it has better 3D performance :) Mar 13 01:20
schestowitz Get all of MS’ APIs Mar 13 01:20
Balrog lol Mar 13 01:20
schestowitz Plus freedom, plus power of Linux Mar 13 01:20
schestowitz It’s like a baggage Mar 13 01:20
PeterFA That will truly be a golden age for computing! Mar 13 01:20
PeterFA schestowitz, if Microsoft dies, you’ll be known as the one who said it first. Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz “I bought Linux, got Windows for ‘free’” Mar 13 01:21
PeterFA Revenue will never seize. Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz Just the APIs Mar 13 01:21
Balrog MS doesn’t need to die Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz It won’t Mar 13 01:21
Balrog just scale down and come to their senses Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz Unlike SCO Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz It’ll leech off something Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz Patents over after Bilski? Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz Maybe now Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz Not Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz But Mar 13 01:21
Balrog but will it do that? probably not Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz They have ACT shills running amok Mar 13 01:21
schestowitz Pushing patents into EU Mar 13 01:22
schestowitz India too is being manipulated Mar 13 01:22
schestowitz Eearily quiet there Mar 13 01:22
schestowitz The activists say nothing Mar 13 01:22
PeterFA schestowitz, got a twitter? Mar 13 01:22
schestowitz Neither do Red Hat employees in India though Mar 13 01:22
schestowitz PeterFA: http://identi.ca/schestowitz Mar 13 01:22
schestowitz no twttter Mar 13 01:23
PeterFA schestowitz, get twitter, it’ll help you promote your blog. Mar 13 01:23
schestowitz http://identi.ca upgraded today Mar 13 01:23
schestowitz Not we get mail notifications for replies Mar 13 01:23
PeterFA schestowitz, go to thirtydaychallenge.com and watch the videos. Mar 13 01:23
schestowitz And they work on data export AFAIK Mar 13 01:23
PeterFA schestowitz, what’s identic.ca Mar 13 01:23
PeterFA identi.ca. Mar 13 01:23
schestowitz PeterFA: no need Mar 13 01:24
schestowitz twitter is small #s Mar 13 01:24
schestowitz and it’s also useless for archiving Mar 13 01:24
PeterFA schestowitz, what’s better? Mar 13 01:24
schestowitz We get fine readership as it is Mar 13 01:24
schestowitz About 1m pages/month on the good ones Mar 13 01:24
PeterFA I see. Mar 13 01:24
schestowitz When I do Comes Mar 13 01:24
schestowitz So twitter would be peanuts Mar 13 01:24
schestowitz Would rather spend time here brainstorming Mar 13 01:25
PeterFA schestowitz, if I get Linux-starter.com with good content, mind dropping a link from one of your blogs to my site? Mar 13 01:25
schestowitz Sure Mar 13 01:25
schestowitz In daily links Mar 13 01:25
*PeterFA dances. Mar 13 01:25
PeterFA I’ll get a ton of valid traffic. Mar 13 01:25
PeterFA You have the exact audience I want. Mar 13 01:26
PeterFA The willing to try Linux. Mar 13 01:26
schestowitz Not really Mar 13 01:26
schestowitz 50% of us already use it Mar 13 01:26
schestowitz The rest probably browser from work Mar 13 01:27
schestowitz BN scares some newbies Mar 13 01:27
schestowitz One person told me that realising all the mess Microsoft is causing drive him away, so he undubscribed Mar 13 01:27
schestowitz New users don’t understand freedom Mar 13 01:28
schestowitz They don’t know RMS Mar 13 01:28
schestowitz This goes too deep for them Mar 13 01:28
schestowitz When you introduce them to the crimes committed to fight Free software Mar 13 01:28
*Smari has quit (“Leaving”) Mar 13 01:28
schestowitz It’s omnplexity they prefer not to witness. Same with Groklaw Mar 13 01:28
*Omar87 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Mar 13 01:36
schestowitz Nice: http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/03… Mar 13 01:37
PeterFA Ok, well, at least it gets me some Googlages. Mar 13 01:44
schestowitz Good comment from Asa: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/03/11/d… Mar 13 01:44
schestowitz “Then again, as Nicholas Negroponte states, the newest OLPC machine is still 18 months away, and “a lot can change with regard to Microsoft and ARM” in that time. We hope it does — we would hate to see the Third World’s computing needs left to those $10 laptop guys. ” http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/1… Mar 13 01:53
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PeterFA schestowitz, what is something you think I could do for you? Mar 13 02:26
schestowitz We need text for the docs in the Wiki (antitrust) Mar 13 02:27
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/wiki… Mar 13 02:27
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Eruaran Ubuntu impresses again Mar 13 08:09
Eruaran That Fujitsu dual boot notebook I mentioned yesterday Mar 13 08:10
Eruaran Installed XP/Ubuntu on it today Mar 13 08:10
Eruaran The only thing I needed to do was change “vesa” in x to “intel” Mar 13 08:10
Eruaran Everything else just worked Mar 13 08:10
Eruaran Including the customers 3 mobile broadband dongle Mar 13 08:11
Eruaran Ubuntu detected it correctly and asked if I wanted to configure it, click ‘configure now’, the wizard asks basic questions, click next, next and youre up Mar 13 08:12
Eruaran It worked better than 3′s own self installing software on Windows XP did Mar 13 08:12
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Eruaran And got us online faster Mar 13 08:12
Eruaran slam dunk Mar 13 08:12
*Eruaran grins a satisfied grin Mar 13 08:13
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schestowitz Hi, Eruaran Mar 13 08:57
Eruaran Hi Roy Mar 13 08:57
schestowitz Found yesterday: http://riplinton.blogspot.com/2009… Mar 13 08:58
Eruaran I wonder what kind of watch it was Mar 13 09:01
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MinceR geekings Mar 13 09:29
Eruaran hello MinceR Mar 13 09:32
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mib_0pqosm microsoft are liars theives and should die now Mar 13 09:54
mib_0pqosm Everyone hates microsoft liars Mar 13 09:54
mib_0pqosm I use linux because its honest and stable and fast and doesnt spy on me Mar 13 09:55
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Eruaran speaking of spying… Mar 13 09:55
schestowitz Yes…. Mar 13 09:56
Eruaran Might be timely to remind of this Mar 13 09:57
Eruaran http://www.theregister.co.uk/… Mar 13 09:57
schestowitz Yes… Mar 13 09:57
schestowitz There was anther article in CNET the other day Mar 13 09:58
schestowitz Back doors Mar 13 09:58
schestowitz ‘hacking’ Mar 13 09:58
schestowitz In Australia Mar 13 09:58
Eruaran yes Mar 13 10:01
schestowitz NZ Linux users fight the copyrights cartel now. Mar 13 10:04
schestowitz http://coffee.geek.nz/scoop-nz… Mar 13 10:05
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mib_69g7a0 hi Mar 13 10:11
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schestowitz “Obama” brand :-) http://www.youtube.com/wat… Mar 13 10:46
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schestowitz Christopher Hitchens cut off on fox news? < http://www.youtube.com/wa… > Mar 13 11:32
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Eruaran meh Mar 13 11:37
schestowitz Regarding the news from France, one person says Microsoft is trying to rub it off as “anti-American”. “”A good counter will be to focus on the tax dodging and legal troubles. A comment (not mine) on /. talked about die-hard ms ideologues rather firing people than pass up on buying MS Office.” Mar 13 11:46
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Omar87 Hi all Mar 13 11:52
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.97.195.80) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 13 11:53
Eruaran hi Mar 13 11:59
schestowitz Hey Mar 13 12:00
zer0c00l hi Eruaran Mar 13 12:00
Eruaran I’ve been idling in #kubuntu Mar 13 12:01
Eruaran Can’t help noticing the randoms that enter now and again Mar 13 12:01
Eruaran Hit and runs Mar 13 12:02
Eruaran enter channel > bash KDE a bit > leave Mar 13 12:02
zer0c00l hahaha Mar 13 12:07
zer0c00l i use kde 3.5 ;) Mar 13 12:07
zer0c00l debian Mar 13 12:07
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*MinceR_ is now known as MinceR Mar 13 12:08
ZiggyFish go the broncos Mar 13 12:08
ZiggyFish Broncos won 19-18 Mar 13 12:08
schestowitz Hi, ZiggyFish Mar 13 12:09
Eruaran Using KDE 4.2.1 here. Its good. Mar 13 12:09
ZiggyFish hey Mar 13 12:09
ZiggyFish schestowitz: how are you? Mar 13 12:10
schestowitz http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23806/1055/ Conroy confirms NBN decision “just weeks away” Mar 13 12:11
schestowitz ZiggyFish: I’m all right. Annoyed ATM. Mar 13 12:11
schestowitz Microsoft is sending out shills Mar 13 12:11
schestowitz TomTom spin. Mar 13 12:11
schestowitz Microsoft paid mouthpieces Mar 13 12:12
ZiggyFish schestowitz: in the TomTom case Microsoft don’t have a leg to stand on Mar 13 12:12
Eruaran Got an interesting comment from a customer today Mar 13 12:13
ZiggyFish schestowitz: am going to Uni this year, and was supprised that they have the option of booting into Linux(Ubuntu) Mar 13 12:14
Eruaran He said we were the only place he found where we could 1. actually answer his questions and 2. not just take FOSS seriously but promote FOSS and use it… Mar 13 12:15
Eruaran Our city is full of idiot Mar 13 12:15
Eruaran *idiots Mar 13 12:15
ZiggyFish lol Mar 13 12:15
Eruaran I think some will soon go out of business Mar 13 12:15
Eruaran The competition doesn’t get it Mar 13 12:16
ZiggyFish Eruaran: let’s just hope there are more companies like yours arround Mar 13 12:16
Eruaran Linux users are OUR customers and not our competitions customers… and the competition doesn’t understand how big that userbase is Mar 13 12:17
Eruaran What this guy told me about everywhere else he went was simple: “they don’t want to know” Mar 13 12:18
schestowitz ZiggyFish: dual-booting is getting common in universities Mar 13 12:18
Eruaran So him, and an increasing number of other people in my city come to us Mar 13 12:18
schestowitz Eruaran: excellent. Mar 13 12:19
Eruaran They want hardware, they want advice, they want info, they know what they want and they don’t want to be told what they want Mar 13 12:19
Eruaran I remember when our company director expressed a concern once that if we promote software that actually works good nearly all of the time we’ll put ourselves out of business :P Mar 13 12:20
Eruaran That was before he realised that hardware failures still happen, that not every Linux user is a C++ god, and that if you can give people answers that no one else can give it builds respect and confidence… and it was before he realised that we don’t want Linux users going to the competition :P Mar 13 12:23
Eruaran AND Mar 13 12:23
Eruaran That was before he realised that if he doesn’t know how to help someone, he can just punt them over to us :P Mar 13 12:24
Eruaran I have to remember to enter the Fujitsu A1110 in our database tomorrow Mar 13 12:26
Eruaran We’re building a database over time Mar 13 12:26
Eruaran Of our experiences installing Linux on notebooks Mar 13 12:27
Eruaran So, if someone wants to know, anyone in the company can simply refer to it and is able to tell a customer in moments what they can expect if Linux is installed on the notebook they enquire about Mar 13 12:28
Eruaran In short, Ubuntu on the Fujitsu A1110 is a dream. Mar 13 12:30
schestowitz Money is in hardware Mar 13 12:37
schestowitz Not in software anymore Mar 13 12:37
schestowitz Same in servers Mar 13 12:37
schestowitz That’s why HP and IBM thrives while Microsoft enters debt Mar 13 12:37
schestowitz People need to be given the s/w of their choice Mar 13 12:37
schestowitz That’s why IBM and HP also invest in Linux Mar 13 12:37
ZiggyFish google has a lot to do with that I believe Mar 13 12:38
schestowitz It helps them sell hardware, independently of Microsoft Mar 13 12:38
schestowitz Rationale for Symbian was similar Mar 13 12:38
schestowitz Think about it this way Mar 13 12:38
schestowitz Shop makes $300 selling netbooks (gross) Mar 13 12:38
schestowitz Microsoft? Just $5 if it runs Windows. Mar 13 12:38
schestowitz Who’s to gain more? Mar 13 12:39
Eruaran When economics are tough, value shifts back to the hardware, and services that people require to repair/maintain hardware Mar 13 12:41
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schestowitz Yes, same with many things like footwear Mar 13 12:46
schestowitz Eruaran: did you see this morning’s post about Microsoft’s latest dead product? Mar 13 12:47
Eruaran sorry was afk Mar 13 13:01
Eruaran no I haven’t seen it yet Mar 13 13:02
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.90.17) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 13 13:11
_Hicham_ Hi All! Mar 13 13:11
Eruaran hi Mar 13 13:11
schestowitz Hey there, wb Mar 13 13:12
_Hicham_ how r u doing Roy? Mar 13 13:12
schestowitz All OK, just writing some posts ARM Mar 13 13:15
schestowitz *ATM Mar 13 13:15
_Hicham_ I am looking for the best Desktop environment for my desktop machine Mar 13 13:15
_Hicham_ i installed Ubuntu, Debian, and Fedora Mar 13 13:15
_Hicham_ but all three of them were too slow Mar 13 13:15
_Hicham_ I think gnome is the cause Mar 13 13:15
_Hicham_ i should opt for more minimalistic DE Mar 13 13:16
_Hicham_ what do u think? Mar 13 13:16
Eruaran Mint+Fluxbox ? Mar 13 13:16
Eruaran LInux Mint Fluxbox edition is minimal and sexy Mar 13 13:17
_Hicham_ did u test it on an old machine? Mar 13 13:17
Eruaran No Mar 13 13:17
Eruaran :P Mar 13 13:17
Eruaran But I reckon its worth a look Mar 13 13:17
Eruaran I’ve heard nothing bad about it and the general consensus seems to be that its great for older hardware and running from usb etc Mar 13 13:18
Eruaran which reminds me Mar 13 13:19
_Hicham_ Mint is based on Debian? Mar 13 13:19
Eruaran I was gonna download Mint with fluxbox for that very reason… run it on a usb Mar 13 13:19
Eruaran Ubuntu Mar 13 13:19
_Hicham_ that is cool then Mar 13 13:20
_Hicham_ is it up-to-date? Mar 13 13:20
Eruaran http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_felicia_fluxbox.php Mar 13 13:23
Eruaran looks good Mar 13 13:24
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Balrog_ hi all Mar 13 13:42
Balrog_ _Hicham_: how fast is your desktop machine? Mar 13 13:42
Eruaran hi Mar 13 13:49
_Hicham_ Balrog : my desktop machine is 700Mhz PIII, 512 Ram, S3 Savage Video Card 8Mb Mar 13 14:04
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_Hicham_ what do u think is suitable for this machine? Mar 13 14:04
schestowitz “I was guest of honor at a star chamber held by my “boss” and her boss and two from the support department.  The same themes and the quoted parts are almost identical phrases. Gist: not running windows personally  ==  bad attitude” Mar 13 14:10
schestowitz I’m hearing from people who are harassed for not using Windows. Mar 13 14:10
schestowitz As if not using Windows is “not being normal”, i.e. troublemaker Mar 13 14:10
schestowitz Horrid. Mar 13 14:11
schestowitz “both mgt and labor union acting as MSFT police. Anyway a few hundred students have hands on experience now with several desktop environments and several operating systems.” Mar 13 14:12
schestowitz “”It did not work to put these in rotted housing with no fire alarms, bad heating, inadequate missing locks, etc.  It did not work to charge them 150% the market rate for aforementioned housing.  It did not work to threaten them with a gun (later turned out to be replica).  It did not work to go around in gangs and beat the fuck out of them.  There are still a few left.” Mar 13 14:12
schestowitz “So the degree program will have to be closed to get rid of them, before people out in town find out that they’ve been defrauded by MS, and by pushers, these recent years. The EFF or other groups might find these tactics useful to know about.” Mar 13 14:12
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_Hicham_ http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rbeqbj-n1Z0/… Mar 13 14:23
Eruaran lol Mar 13 14:26
schestowitz http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc…. -> European Parliament resolution on the existence of a global system for the interception of private and commercial communications Mar 13 14:32
schestowitz A friend says: “Suitability for use in European business is called into question due to the inability guarantee freedom from backdoors and</a>, like other closed source applications, it is to be classed as “least reliable”.” Mar 13 14:33
schestowitz Palm Linux is coming to stores soon: Sprint Announces Pricing Plans for Palm Pre < http://www.pcworld.com/article/161187/spri… > Mar 13 14:45
schestowitz Politicians Overreacted To Terrorist ‘Threat’ Online < http://techdirt.com/articles… >. Or maybe the threat is created in part by invasions. Mar 13 14:48
schestowitz TomTom Can License FAT Without Violating the GPL  < http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?… > Mar 13 14:56
_Hicham_ TomTom should just drop FAT Mar 13 14:59
_Hicham_ FAT is just fat Mar 13 14:59
_Hicham_ FAT should go on a diet Mar 13 14:59
_Hicham_ it wastes a lot of space Mar 13 14:59
Balrog_ but then how will windows users use tom-tom devices Mar 13 15:04
Balrog_ or better, use disks in tom-tom devices Mar 13 15:04
schestowitz +1 Mar 13 15:04
Balrog_ (like flash drives or sd cards) Mar 13 15:04
*[H]omer_ (n=[H]omer@moscow.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 13 15:05
Balrog_ schestowitz: That slashdot article is full of holes Mar 13 15:05
Balrog_ read the comments Mar 13 15:05
Eruaran You don’t need to use FAT Mar 13 15:05
schestowitz US Supreme Court shows no determination to see this (c.f. Rambus) Mar 13 15:05
Balrog_ I know :( Mar 13 15:06
Balrog_ but what about Europe? Mar 13 15:06
schestowitz EU is OK Mar 13 15:06
Balrog_ Tom-Tom is Europe-based Mar 13 15:06
schestowitz FAT patents trahsed in Germany Mar 13 15:06
schestowitz EU accused Rambus of ambush, maybne racketeeri Mar 13 15:06
Eruaran Yes, have the case heard in Germany Mar 13 15:06
schestowitz zoobab01 would know Mar 13 15:06
schestowitz *maybe racketeering Mar 13 15:07
schestowitz I have an article or press release in mind, but not sure where to find it now. Mar 13 15:08
Eruaran Users don’t care if a device has FAT or something else on it Mar 13 15:08
Eruaran Users just want it to work Mar 13 15:08
schestowitz AOL is now headed by a Googler Mar 13 15:08
schestowitz Important in case AOL does something that favours Google Mar 13 15:08
schestowitz Or… if AOL snubs the Vole. Mar 13 15:08
schestowitz Eruaran: use Windows update to forcible put the ext2 driver on Windows Mar 13 15:09
Balrog_ which ext2 driver? Mar 13 15:09
schestowitz Authorities need to restore standards that are safe, even fircibly. Mar 13 15:09
Balrog_ ext2ifs is not foss, and is buggy Mar 13 15:09
schestowitz If Microsoft abuses its monopoly and has an ambush going.. Mar 13 15:09
schestowitz Balrog: so find an alternative Mar 13 15:09
Eruaran The end result of cases like this is that companies like TomTom will seek alternatives, and will use them. Mar 13 15:10
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