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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 16th, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:26 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

schestowitz Sutor.. Moody…. Mar 16 00:00
Balrog_ that you’re stuck in school and won’t finish anytime soon Mar 16 00:00
balzac But when the time is appropriate, there they are Mar 16 00:00
Balrog_ something like that Mar 16 00:00
schestowitz Rarely will you see them adding the title/s Mar 16 00:00
schestowitz It takes more to be humble than it is not to be. Mar 16 00:00
schestowitz Balrog: trols say I chopped off my penis too Mar 16 00:00
schestowitz Does it mean you should believe them? Mar 16 00:00
Balrog_ no, I don’t Mar 16 00:01
Balrog_ you can’t always (easily) identify trolls though Mar 16 00:01
schestowitz There’s something paradoxical here. Mar 16 00:01
schestowitz You say “the trolls say X” Mar 16 00:01
schestowitz So you do acknowledge they are trolls, some of whom on Microsoft’s payroll Mar 16 00:02
schestowitz And then you put forth their libellous statements Mar 16 00:02
Balrog_ because I already heard the truth Mar 16 00:02
schestowitz They have enough new lies they can make up Mar 16 00:02
schestowitz It’s not as though they’ll run out Mar 16 00:02
schestowitz “She’s just a paralegal” Mar 16 00:03
schestowitz “He has a long beard” Mar 16 00:03
*balzac sips courvoisier Mar 16 00:03
schestowitz “He inhaled” Mar 16 00:03
schestowitz etc etc Mar 16 00:03
Balrog_ once you discredit the trolls on several points, you have totally discredited them Mar 16 00:04
balzac Balrog_: there’s a whole industry based in yellow-journalism Mar 16 00:05
balzac you’ve fully discredited them among the legitimate publications, but the yellow journalism industry keeps chugging along, with Rupert Murdoch at the helm. Mar 16 00:05
Balrog_ heh yeah. Mar 16 00:06
balzac And Murdoch keeps aquiring trusted brands and corrupting them Mar 16 00:06
Balrog_ he ruined myspace Mar 16 00:06
Balrog_ few of my friends use it anymore Mar 16 00:06
balzac so people keep getting fooled by yellow journalists who shouldn’t be published by any self-respecting publication. Mar 16 00:06
balzac The most important thing to do is to aim high, at the ones who give cover to their character-assassin foot-soldiers Mar 16 00:07
MinceR gn Mar 16 00:07
balzac Like the cartoonist from the NY Post – sure, go after the cartoonist, but focus mainly on the editor, and the owner(s) Mar 16 00:07
balzac cya MinceR Mar 16 00:08
balzac You’ve got to drive down the trust in the brand which is lending legitimacy to the yellow journalist Mar 16 00:08
balzac Murdoch buys Wall St Journal – now it’s toilet paper. Mar 16 00:08
balzac Supposing Murdoch bought NY Times, it’s toilet paper. Or blankets for the homeless, no longer fit for reading. (Not that it’s worthwhile as it is) Mar 16 00:09
balzac That’s the appropriate kind of retaliation for yellow journalists. Mar 16 00:10
balzac Roy hits IDG and others quite often. That’s the name of the game. Mar 16 00:10
schestowitz Ms fanboy Stuart J. Johnston  writes: Microsoft Still Has Eyes for Yahoo < http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/… > Mar 16 00:10
schestowitz Balrog: IDG is just a shell owned by IDC Mar 16 00:11
schestowitz the International Disinformation Group Mar 16 00:11
schestowitz ‘Microsoft’s’ Gavin Clarke is now promoting Microsoft dumpage:  http://www.channelregister.co… The Microsoft-Register deal poisoned a once-good publication Mar 16 00:13
schestowitz Even Ashlee Vance, who covered Linux there, ran away Mar 16 00:13
schestowitz Lucy Sharrif too Mar 16 00:13
schestowitz She hardly writes there now, if at all. Mar 16 00:13
schestowitz The MS-dominated Register scared away the truth speakers. Mar 16 00:13
schestowitz EEEE Mar 16 00:14
schestowitz Embrace publication Mar 16 00:14
schestowitz Change some people up at the top (extend) Mar 16 00:14
schestowitz Have editors annoy Linus writers until they leave to Extinguish Mar 16 00:14
schestowitz Like an Anaconda. Mar 16 00:14
schestowitz BillG is handing out free ‘drug’ at Dalton State: http://www.northwestgeorgia.com/local… Mar 16 00:16
schestowitz “First one’s freeeee..” Mar 16 00:16
balzac Oh jeez Mar 16 00:18
balzac to think I once used MS word Mar 16 00:18
balzac I even downloaded some training videos on it, which I never watched Mar 16 00:18
balzac I can’t stand that program Mar 16 00:18
_Hicham_ word is sluggish Mar 16 00:19
balzac MS software is so bloated with features for obstructing users, it’s going to be much more sluggish Mar 16 00:20
balzac Software which serves another master, always checking to see if you’re permitted to do this or that, maintaining interoperability with arcane specifications designed to break standards, obfuscate simple things. Mar 16 00:21
balzac Microsoft Windows never serves the person, even when they hold the administrative credentials – the root account lies in Redmond. No windows user can claim to be their own administrator. Mar 16 00:23
balzac Except for Gates, king of his horrible software castle, made from the dried tears and broken dreams of Microsoft users. Mar 16 00:24
balzac Roy, I think you might consider pull-quoting some of this for BN. Mar 16 00:24
balzac Put a little sauce on top of the the informative content. Mar 16 00:25
schestowitz balzac: it’s already being posted anyway Mar 16 00:25
schestowitz The thing is, about Office… Mar 16 00:25
balzac I know :) Mar 16 00:25
schestowitz Microsoft MUST show you pay for SOMETHING Mar 16 00:25
schestowitz So they bloat it up Mar 16 00:25
schestowitz How else can they make a business proposition for $500 per seat Mar 16 00:26
schestowitz “innovation” … blah… “many features” Mar 16 00:26
schestowitz [many... errr.   bloat] Mar 16 00:26
schestowitz Office 12 is a pig… 14 even worse Mar 16 00:26
schestowitz You can stuff up a fat pig… until it had a heart disease. Mar 16 00:27
balzac Microsoft treats their users like cattle – they dump various kinds of filler into the feed, soy pulp, corn mash, ground bone, sawdust, egg-shells, entrails and brains… Mar 16 00:28
balzac anything, just meet that quota for volume Mar 16 00:29
balzac proprietary software in general Mar 16 00:29
balzac compare the size of photoshop vs gimp Mar 16 00:29
balzac 3dsmax vs blender Mar 16 00:29
balzac ms word vs abi word Mar 16 00:29
balzac proprietary software vendors want you to think the hundreds of megs of useless data are worth the hundreds of dollars Mar 16 00:30
schestowitz They have to keep programmers busy and users ‘upgrading’ (buying) Mar 16 00:34
schestowitz It’s the planned obsolescence theory Mar 16 00:34
balzac yep Mar 16 00:34
schestowitz Similar theory regarding eBay Mar 16 00:34
schestowitz You can’t have them sit around Mar 16 00:34
balzac so they break things to force the necessity to upgrade Mar 16 00:34
schestowitz Give them something potentially useless to do Mar 16 00:34
schestowitz Pile up the megs Mar 16 00:34
schestowitz Fill up the menus Mar 16 00:35
schestowitz Never mind if this gets buggy and more confusing. Mar 16 00:35
schestowitz Balrog: “things” = formats Mar 16 00:35
balzac that’s what you get from people who suffer cognitive dissonance Mar 16 00:35
schestowitz Try opening a PS 6 file in PS 4 Mar 16 00:35
schestowitz Or Office 2007 in Word 6 Mar 16 00:35
balzac because they’re unwilling to face the fact that they’ve become cognitive castrati Mar 16 00:35
schestowitz They think  they’ll pay once Mar 16 00:36
balzac subjugated to the egos of their executive class, lacking freedom of thought Mar 16 00:36
Balrog_ PS ? Mar 16 00:36
schestowitz “I can afford it,” said ignorasmus Mar 16 00:36
Balrog_ you mean photoshop? Mar 16 00:36
schestowitz Word version x, Word version x+1, Word version x+2 Mar 16 00:36
schestowitz Balrog: yes Mar 16 00:36
balzac yep Mar 16 00:36
Balrog_ Compatibility has been ok with Photoshop in recent versions Mar 16 00:36
Balrog_ PS 6 and PS 4 are 90′s era Mar 16 00:36
schestowitz Balrog: I haven’vhcked Mar 16 00:36
Balrog_ really going back Mar 16 00:36
schestowitz I mess with it as a teenger Mar 16 00:37
schestowitz Trial versions on CDs Mar 16 00:37
schestowitz Trying to get people locked in and ‘addicted;’ Mar 16 00:37
schestowitz Adobe does that too Mar 16 00:37
schestowitz Even in schools Mar 16 00:37
schestowitz Dumping addictionware Mar 16 00:37
Balrog_ I see. I have friends who are graphics designers, and they give me stuff Mar 16 00:37
schestowitz “Software  molestation” Mar 16 00:37
Balrog_ (that they don’t use anymore) Mar 16 00:37
Balrog_ PS has many features that they rely one Mar 16 00:38
Balrog_ on * Mar 16 00:38
Balrog_ like the adjustment layers Mar 16 00:38
schestowitz Eric Lai : “Two ways to buy Microsoft Office 2007 for under $50″ Mar 16 00:39
schestowitz These are some of the IDG Microsoft boosters Mar 16 00:39
schestowitz IDC pays their wage, from the money they earn from Microsoft and the MS ads in its sites Mar 16 00:39
schestowitz SJVN is an odd one in the pack Mar 16 00:39
schestowitz One lone Linux advocate (a ‘pragmatist’ sadly) among many shills Mar 16 00:40
schestowitz Enderle shill still accuses Linux of ‘stealing’ from SCO: “TomTom 2: FOSS Copying SCO and Microsoft While Proving Steve Jobs …” Mar 16 00:41
schestowitz What does it take from a shill to do before he gets locked up or something? Mar 16 00:41
schestowitz There is one thing which is lying Mar 16 00:41
schestowitz Another is slander for money Mar 16 00:41
schestowitz New York Times, United States: “Microsoft, with headquarters in Redmond, Wash., is one of several companies in the state laying off thousands of employees.” Mar 16 00:42
balzac Enderle, what a sad fellow Mar 16 00:42
schestowitz It’s more like tens of thousands. Mar 16 00:43
schestowitz Microsoft ‘hides’ the temps, contracts, etc. Mar 16 00:43
schestowitz balzac: he’s well ‘fed’ by the Wintel press Mar 16 00:43
schestowitz That’s how it works Mar 16 00:43
schestowitz Have lackeys like Rory from the BBC give them air time Mar 16 00:43
balzac still, he clings to the crap from SCO, like a beetle, clinging to a piece of dung. Mar 16 00:43
schestowitz Rory et al have lunch with Microsoft Mar 16 00:43
schestowitz Enderle gets paid by them Mar 16 00:43
schestowitz Mirosoft brings (weds)  shillnalysts and lackeys reports whom it camandeers Mar 16 00:44
balzac poor, poor Enderle Mar 16 00:44
schestowitz The guy who mailed me earlier has MI5 connections Mar 16 00:44
schestowitz It’s funny that the Microsoft cult and those around it are getting so much attention Mar 16 00:44
balzac hanging from the teat of the old sow. Mar 16 00:44
schestowitz Perhaps the UK too realises the dangers of US corporate power corrupting and colonialising other countries. Mar 16 00:45
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schestowitz Who’s Going To Buy Palm? < http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/… > Mar 16 00:49
balzac who cares? Mar 16 00:49
schestowitz Some source asked abotu Microisof Mar 16 00:49
balzac I hope they do Mar 16 00:49
schestowitz Which would not make sense in this case. bad marriage Mar 16 00:49
balzac Any marraige which includes Microsoft is a bad marraige. Mar 16 00:50
schestowitz Don Reisinger — what a troll Mar 16 00:50
balzac I’m looking forward to buying a G1 Mar 16 00:50
schestowitz Never mind his latest trollticle Mar 16 00:50
balzac I think I’ll wait two more weeks Mar 16 00:50
schestowitz The guy is a trolling motor Mar 16 00:50
balzac trollticle  heheh Mar 16 00:50
balzac shillnalysts Mar 16 00:50
balzac it’s nice to contract words in order to get the point across succintly Mar 16 00:51
balzac like repugnicans or repiglicans Mar 16 00:51
balzac I’m enjoying XFCE so far Mar 16 00:52
schestowitz It’s good. I used it many years ago. Mar 16 00:55
schestowitz Oh! and I _loved_ Englisghtnment. Mar 16 00:55
schestowitz It stopped when I adopted SUSE in 2003 Mar 16 00:55
Balrog_ schestowitz: when did you quit using suse? Mar 16 00:56
schestowitz Why is this < http://www.makelinux.net/kerne… > making the news all of a sudden, even in Slashdot? It’s very old. Mar 16 00:56
schestowitz Balrog: 2007ish Mar 16 00:56
balzac I can’t get those strippers out of my mind Mar 16 01:10
balzac and I don’t want to Mar 16 01:10
balzac A good stripper or two can really warm a the cockles. Mar 16 01:11
balzac -a Mar 16 01:11
schestowitz ->>#boycottnovell-social Mar 16 01:13
schestowitz join #boycottnovell-social Mar 16 01:13
balzac sorry Mar 16 01:14
*schestowitz sets up a channel for other topcis Mar 16 01:18
schestowitz come and join Mar 16 01:18
schestowitz lessign can be boring sometimes… :-( http://www.youtube.com/watc… Mar 16 01:19
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twitter Who’s going to buy Palm?  Ha!  Who’s going to buy M$FT? Mar 16 02:50
twitter M$ does not have long term credibility.  No one wants a stock in their portfolio from a company that won’t last 20 years. Mar 16 02:51
twitter Is there anyone who thinks M$ will be here 20 years from now?  5 years?  Not me. Mar 16 02:51
twitter I know Google will be here five years from now, and it’s a good bet for growth. Mar 16 02:52
twitter 20 years from now, Google will be around and the stock will have grown better than inflation as the company grows.  That’s the kind of thing people want when they retire. Mar 16 02:53
twitter trolls, they just get new nyms.  http://slashdot.org/~twit… Mar 16 02:55
twitter LOL -> Microsoft Word is the word processing software that PC Magazine called “one of the strongest and most intelligent programs ever written.” Mar 16 02:56
twitter You don’t want to know what the users say about it. Mar 16 02:56
twitter “Change=confusion and for technical reasons changing domain is parctically impossible” Mar 16 02:59
twitter Not necessarily.  Division by topic is good.  You can set up a new site for new topics.  By the magic of the web, there’s no practical difference in linking.  When Novell goes under for good, you can archive BN and link to it as you see fit from whatever your new interests and site is. Mar 16 02:59
twitter Of course, when M$ and Novell are gone there will be less trouble to write about. Mar 16 03:00
twitter M$ Impersonator?  Like a reverse Barkto?  It would serve M$ right but I don’t think that kind of info war is productive. Mar 16 03:01
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zer0c00l Indian prime minister office moves to gnu/linux based email solution http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@list… Mar 16 04:20
zer0c00l lost lot of mails because of M$ exchange Mar 16 04:20
zer0c00l here is the online link http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India… Mar 16 04:40
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twitter power outages bring me down. Mar 16 04:58
twitter Entergy sucks. Mar 16 04:58
zer0c00l twitter: did u read http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/P… Mar 16 04:58
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twitter thanks zer0, that one has a happy ending. Mar 16 05:15
twitter boot to Outlook in favor of a normal email system. Mar 16 05:16
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schestowitz Hey Mar 16 08:15
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schestowitz zer0c00l: see http://www.siliconindia.com/showne… and http://www.livemint.com/2009/03/132205… Mar 16 08:17
*zer0c00l looks Mar 16 08:17
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zer0c00l bad , they are not even leaving small companies Mar 16 08:20
zer0c00l bizspark,dreamspark and lot of sparks to set fire on innovation and competitors Mar 16 08:22
zer0c00l schestowitz: are you going to write on these things?if so this would be the suitable title “Microsoft targets to kill young talents and education in india” Mar 16 08:25
zer0c00l too bad now their eye is on india Mar 16 08:26
schestowitz Yes, I’ll write about the topic Mar 16 08:28
zer0c00l schestowitz:http://www.lkadvani.in/eng/content… read from the last 4th point Mar 16 08:29
zer0c00l he is the major opposition leader Mar 16 08:30
zer0c00l i dont like that leader personally Mar 16 08:30
schestowitz I’ve just been told that “Major Indian political parties support open source and open standards” Mar 16 08:31
zer0c00l yeah Mar 16 08:32
zer0c00l :-) Mar 16 08:32
zer0c00l you should have read http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/In… Mar 16 08:32
schestowitz Oddly, enough, someone from Red Hat mailed me this Mar 16 08:32
schestowitz I don’t speak to Red Hat people. Mar 16 08:32
zer0c00l :-) Mar 16 08:33
zer0c00l why so? Mar 16 08:33
schestowitz No idea Mar 16 08:33
zer0c00l :-) Mar 16 08:33
*zer0c00l smiles Mar 16 08:33
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MinceR r4wr Mar 16 09:15
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oiaohm Today I hate MS with a defined hell. Mar 16 10:39
oiaohm Had to hotfix a firewire problem in XP SP3. Mar 16 10:39
oiaohm Not only do you have to give MS an email address to download the hotfix.  As well the downloaded file required a password so it extracts. Mar 16 10:40
oiaohm Lot of messing about. Mar 16 10:40
MinceR messing is what they do Mar 16 10:40
oiaohm Thinking its a defect in SP3 that causes the problem in the first place that you can download without the crap. Mar 16 10:41
oiaohm Today I don’t care who wins.  Linux Reactos… Basically anyone bar MS. Mar 16 10:42
schestowitz oiaohm: I have many MS posts to do today Mar 16 10:42
schestowitz Check out BN for details. I have 4 more posts, maybe 5 Mar 16 10:43
schestowitz The criminal feels cornered, so it misbehaves Mar 16 10:43
oiaohm Gets better I found out where MS is road testing there .net OS. Mar 16 10:43
MinceR where? Mar 16 10:44
oiaohm http://www.windowsfordevices….  << In of all the warped places watches. Mar 16 10:45
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MinceR pft Mar 16 10:45
zer0c00l g2g Mar 16 10:47
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schestowitz oiaohm: Microsoft also tested Singularity and WinFS… and SPOT watch… Mar 16 10:57
oiaohm Spot design and Singularity design layout is very releated. Mar 16 10:58
oiaohm Let have programmers forget about native code and code everything in .net Mar 16 11:05
schestowitz Microsoft is dead-end in Winfdows Mar 16 11:07
schestowitz And Windows Mobile too Mar 16 11:07
schestowitz So it branches into separate paths (Danger, Singularity, etc) Mar 16 11:08
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oiaohm http://news.netcraft.com/archives… Mar 16 11:13
oiaohm Getting interesting.  MS is increasing it domian numbers by adding it own. Mar 16 11:13
oiaohm Now qq.com is doing the same and could over take MS by end of year. Mar 16 11:14
schestowitz I see… Mar 16 11:21
schestowitz More pollution of information *and* more gaming of Netcraft Mar 16 11:21
oiaohm qq.com will not tell anyone what there webservers are based on. Mar 16 11:22
oiaohm So effectively they are building a bigger and bigger void of what the. Mar 16 11:22
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oiaohm Really the qq.com case is a example how much one party can screw up numbers. Mar 16 12:59
schestowitz Remember GoDaddy? Mar 16 13:01
oiaohm GoDaddy was not out to completely destroy the numbers. Mar 16 13:01
oiaohm They still showed what they were using. Mar 16 13:01
schestowitz Well,, China is the next overload Mar 16 13:02
oiaohm China using windows servers in that large of numbers I think not. Mar 16 13:03
oiaohm BSD Linux Solarias….  We have no clue at what is hidding in qq.com numbers. Mar 16 13:03
schestowitz If it’s Windows, then it’s like counterfeited Mar 16 13:25
oiaohm Also not off the cards. Mar 16 13:27
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Eruaran hello Mar 16 13:50
oiaohm Hi Eruaran Mar 16 13:52
Eruaran hi Mar 16 13:52
schestowitz Hi Eruaran Mar 16 13:52
schestowitz zer0c00l: I’m working on the India article Mar 16 13:53
Eruaran howde\h Mar 16 13:53
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zer0c00l schestowitz:ok Mar 16 14:12
zer0c00l :-) Mar 16 14:12
zer0c00l lot of posts today :-) Mar 16 14:13
zer0c00l It should be a busy day for you :-) Mar 16 14:13
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schestowitz Nvidia Spent $43.6 Million to Replace Faulty Graphic Chips < http://www.pcworld.com/article… > Mar 16 14:35
schestowitz Microsoft’s very latest “open source” invasions: http://boycottnovell.com/2009… Mar 16 14:36
schestowitz The Obama cabinet already drowns in some embarrassment: http://www.pcworld.com/article/161266/fed… Mar 16 14:38
zer0c00l bn? Mar 16 14:42
schestowitz Yes Mar 16 14:43
schestowitz <zer0c00l> got your mail :-) great post Mar 16 14:43
schestowitz <zer0c00l> schestowitz: hydrabad is in andrapradesh Mar 16 14:43
schestowitz <zer0c00l> that thing needs to be changed Mar 16 14:43
schestowitz <schestowitz> in #bn Mar 16 14:43
schestowitz <zer0c00l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki… Mar 16 14:43
schestowitz I’ll post it later Mar 16 14:43
schestowitz Too many posts make an overload for readers Mar 16 14:44
zer0c00l k Mar 16 14:44
schestowitz I made 10 this morning Mar 16 14:44
zer0c00l yeah Mar 16 14:44
schestowitz I haven’t checked spelling and all. Mar 16 14:44
zer0c00l will proof read and correct any spelling /logical errors Mar 16 14:44
schestowitz brb (busy) Mar 16 14:44
zer0c00l and send u by mail Mar 16 14:44
zer0c00l ok Mar 16 14:44
schestowitz OK, not in-line though. Corrections separate from original Mar 16 14:45
schestowitz Thanks a lot! Mar 16 14:45
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_Hicham_ Hi all Mar 16 14:59
schestowitz Hey Mar 16 15:01
schestowitz It’s hot here today. Mar 16 15:01
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_Hicham_ Roy : really? Mar 16 15:13
_Hicham_ in the UK? Mar 16 15:13
_Hicham_ great Mar 16 15:13
_Hicham_ i m gonna come there then Mar 16 15:13
_Hicham_ :D Mar 16 15:13
*zer0c00l has proof readed the mail Mar 16 15:16
*zer0c00l worries about his bad english and writing style Mar 16 15:17
zer0c00l :P Mar 16 15:17
schestowitz I see you use bold fonts Mar 16 15:17
schestowitz Thanks. Mar 16 15:17
zer0c00l :( Mar 16 15:19
zer0c00l :P Mar 16 15:19
*schestowitz mends draft Mar 16 15:19
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schestowitz OK done, but I’ll need to brush it up later. Mar 16 15:25
schestowitz BTW zer0c00l, #boycottnovell-social is now registered as well (for less on-topic things) Mar 16 15:26
_Hicham_ Roy : I screwed up my ubuntu installation yesterday Mar 16 15:26
schestowitz Do you need to buy it again? Mar 16 15:26
_Hicham_ Roy : buy what? Mar 16 15:27
zer0c00l _Hicham_ : try debian Mar 16 15:28
zer0c00l :-) Mar 16 15:28
schestowitz Ubuntu. Can you not restore the old state? Define “screwed up” Mar 16 15:28
_Hicham_ In fact, i tried a crazy thing : upgrade from Ubuntu to Debian Sid Mar 16 15:29
_Hicham_ finshed with unusable system Mar 16 15:29
_Hicham_ i had to reformat Mar 16 15:29
_Hicham_ now im running debian lenny Mar 16 15:29
_Hicham_ it has faster bootup Mar 16 15:30
_Hicham_ that is what i remarked Mar 16 15:30
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schestowitz “… upgrade from Ubuntu to Debian Sid …” Mar 16 15:30
schestowitz Wha?? Mar 16 15:30
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_Hicham_ yes Mar 16 15:31
_Hicham_ that was i was trying to do Mar 16 15:31
_Hicham_ crazy Mar 16 15:31
schestowitz So you proper screwed it. It didn’t screw itself up. Mar 16 15:32
schestowitz These are not very binary compatible Mar 16 15:33
schestowitz Maybe you could do CentOS and Red Hat, but they are merely identical, like… Omega and Fedora… or Mint and Ubuntu even. Mar 16 15:33
_Hicham_ Ubuntu modified a lot of things from Debian Mar 16 15:34
schestowitz What a good idea: Give a presentation? Use a LiveCD! < http://maratux.blogspot.com/200… > Mar 16 15:34
schestowitz South America sees the light: Ecuador’s Internal Revenue Service Leverages Red Hat Solutions < http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.s… News/2223073/ > Mar 16 15:36
schestowitz The seven best Linux Foundation contest videos < http://blogs.computerworld.com/the_sev… > Mar 16 15:37
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schestowitz This one makes Linux look ugly: http://video.linux-foundation… Mar 16 15:46
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Eruaran darn dialup speed Mar 16 15:51
Eruaran I’m over my data limit Mar 16 15:51
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Omar87 Hey all! Mar 16 15:57
schestowitz <Hi. Mar 16 15:58
Omar87 schestowitz: This seems like a hot week for you! Lot’s of stuff to talk about, lots of ideas, lots articles, eh? :) Mar 16 15:59
schestowitz Yes, I post a video now Mar 16 15:59
Omar87 Great Mar 16 15:59
schestowitz Posted. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/… Mar 16 16:10
schestowitz Nto so funny how they totally disregard non-kernel devs Mar 16 16:10
schestowitz I’d like to see a submission to this contest that sticks RMS up to the LF Mar 16 16:10
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tessier_ LF? Mar 16 16:29
zer0c00l Linux foundation ? Mar 16 16:30
Balrog anyone here? Mar 16 16:34
Balrog can you comment on this? Mar 16 16:34
Balrog Stallman’s major contribution to the domain is the Marxist economic Mar 16 16:34
Balrog model behind GPL, which works for small stuff and small pockets of the Mar 16 16:34
Balrog real world like the Linux user base, but cannot work in a whole real Mar 16 16:34
Balrog world where real people need to have day jobs that pay their mortgages Mar 16 16:34
Balrog and grocery bills, and where real businesses are willing to pay real Mar 16 16:34
Balrog money for products that meet their needs. Mar 16 16:34
Balrog << quote Mar 16 16:34
Balrog (tessier or zer0c00l or schestowitz or anyone) Mar 16 16:36
_Hicham_ Balrog : Open Source Model is not fixed Mar 16 16:36
schestowitz This assumes that people are paid only for development Mar 16 16:37
schestowitz Which they can be, even for GPL code Mar 16 16:37
schestowitz Say you want me to implement some features for you — or several companies do — then they fund development Mar 16 16:37
schestowitz They also reduces duplication Mar 16 16:37
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schestowitz Watch Apache Mar 16 16:37
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schestowitz Selling Free Software < http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/… > Mar 16 16:38
_Hicham_ yes Mar 16 16:38
*schestowitz was paid in the past to write GPL-licensed code Mar 16 16:38
_Hicham_ we can sell free software Mar 16 16:38
_Hicham_ the freedom doesn’t refer to freedom in price Mar 16 16:39
_Hicham_ it is freedom to use Mar 16 16:39
Balrog but someone can redistribute it without charging … (that would be the argument against it) Mar 16 16:39
_Hicham_ what do u say about that Roy? Mar 16 16:40
schestowitz New version of i3  < http://i3.zekjur.net/ > has just been released. Mar 16 16:41
schestowitz Balrog: some people will pay for the service or convenience Mar 16 16:41
schestowitz See how many people choose Red Hat over CentOS Mar 16 16:42
zer0c00l Balrog:you got your money anyway Mar 16 16:42
schestowitz There is more to it than just code Mar 16 16:42
zer0c00l Balrog:In indian constitution any one can go to a court and defend himself, but most people in india pay a lot to lawyer to defend them in court Mar 16 16:43
schestowitz In the hacker culture you reuse lots of code and modify or merge to fit your needs, then contribute patches. So the cost of development is low and distribution. Mar 16 16:43
zer0c00l it works like a service Mar 16 16:43
schestowitz (buted Mar 16 16:43
schestowitz Right now I listen to 6GB of legally distributed music I got from torrent  for example (SXSW 2009).  I get to know bands I never heard of before. Mar 16 16:44
schestowitz So rather than have the Britneys and Sinatras of whatever (fat moguls paying a dime to culture monopolists) you distribute the market widely, then pay for concerts, t-shits,etc. Mar 16 16:45
Balrog zer0c00l: then the argument becomes ‘why GPL and not something less restrictive’ Mar 16 16:45
schestowitz Very VERY bad to RIAA… very good to the random singer in town… people listen to it instead of be glued to Superbowl-like phenomena Mar 16 16:45
schestowitz Balrog: human nature Mar 16 16:46
Balrog which is? Mar 16 16:46
zer0c00l charging for each copies of software(product) is unethical, lets say company A  has manufactured a television, the cost for manufacturing the  second Television   set is more or less equal to the next one…But think of software whats the cost to make the second copy? Mar 16 16:46
zer0c00l *first one Mar 16 16:47
_Hicham_ the economy is going toward services Mar 16 16:47
Balrog people argue that it costs to write the software in the first place (developer time) Mar 16 16:47
_Hicham_ not products Mar 16 16:47
*zer0c00l agrees with _Hicham_ Mar 16 16:47
_Hicham_ writing code is a platform for services Mar 16 16:48
_Hicham_ not a product Mar 16 16:48
schestowitz Wow. “AT Internet Institute has provided some interesting data looking into the evolution of web traffic. So far growth is slow this year.” http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009… Mar 16 16:48
_Hicham_ it is like opening a bank Mar 16 16:48
schestowitz “”Web traffic growth continued to slow down in 2008, for an equivalent number of websites,” the report from AT says. Mar 16 16:49
_Hicham_ u have to find the building and do all the stuff to serve people Mar 16 16:49
zer0c00l Let say company A releases a software, it has some bugs , it fixes that bugs and added few features to the product and releases it, and ask the customer to pay the same amount Mar 16 16:49
zer0c00l *adds Mar 16 16:49
Balrog and….? Mar 16 16:51
_Hicham_ Balrog : and u r doing a service then Mar 16 16:52
zer0c00l look @ M$’s “windows live one care” :their operating system is insecure and prone to attacks and viruses, to protect  from these threats  which are caused  my the mistake of M$, the customer has to pay them Mar 16 16:52
zer0c00l *by Mar 16 16:52
schestowitz :-) Mar 16 16:52
Balrog so charging for new features is ok? …. Mar 16 16:53
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schestowitz Balrog: some do it Mar 16 17:01
schestowitz Or for installing them if it’s hard Mar 16 17:01
schestowitz Picture this.. Mar 16 17:01
schestowitz Do you know how many — say… singers wants a Web sites? Well, they are not always technical people Mar 16 17:02
schestowitz So here they invite you to take commodity tools like Apache and WordPress and set them up Mar 16 17:02
Balrog but then what about home users? … Mar 16 17:02
schestowitz You swap some code and hacks, plugins, etc. Mar 16 17:02
schestowitz You migth also offer added value to the singer Mar 16 17:02
schestowitz Like some code for managing oggs Mar 16 17:02
schestowitz You say, “i’ll charge you less if you allow it to be GPL” Mar 16 17:03
schestowitz Not that they would mind anyway, not much of the time anyway Mar 16 17:03
schestowitz So here you are being paid to make software you own and share with the same people who gave you code Mar 16 17:03
schestowitz Balrog: what do you mean by home users? Mar 16 17:04
Balrog like the majority of windows users Mar 16 17:04
schestowitz Set them up with a Fedora box and programs they need Mar 16 17:04
schestowitz They don’t always know what Linux is Mar 16 17:04
schestowitz I spoke to a friend about it yesterday Mar 16 17:04
schestowitz He didn’t know about Wubi, so I told him. Mar 16 17:04
schestowitz He works in security, so he isn’t tech-savvy, but he’ll try it Mar 16 17:04
schestowitz A lot more money (=time) is spent maintaining and supporting existing systems than acquiring them Mar 16 17:05
schestowitz IBM and Intel develop Linux so that they can sell harsware Mar 16 17:05
schestowitz Same thing… hardware ~= manufacturing ‘service’ Mar 16 17:06
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Balrog what about the ‘Marxist’ argument? Mar 16 17:09
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schestowitz Daemonisation by connotation Mar 16 17:10
schestowitz His appearance is their excuse Mar 16 17:10
schestowitz I think Stallman is more of a libertarian/anarchist than a ‘communist’ Mar 16 17:11
Balrog >> Marxist economic Mar 16 17:12
Balrog > model behind GPL Mar 16 17:12
schestowitz Remember that Marxism promotes ownership by the government and I don’t think RMS is a big fan of overencompassing government Mar 16 17:12
Balrog << quite Mar 16 17:12
schestowitz Marxist ecnomy Mar 16 17:12
Balrog quiote * Mar 16 17:12
schestowitz I’m not too familiar with it Mar 16 17:12
Balrog quote ** Mar 16 17:12
schestowitz I think it’s the whole “one according to his ability” Mar 16 17:12
schestowitz But that’s not the same Mar 16 17:12
schestowitz As code Mar 16 17:12
Balrog yes, that’s the part I hear Mar 16 17:12
schestowitz GPL = science Mar 16 17:12
schestowitz I work with my colleagues to produce a good machine Mar 16 17:13
schestowitz Not socialism either. Mar 16 17:13
schestowitz Just plain science. More like Newton. Mar 16 17:13
Balrog The basic premise of Marxism, as stated by its early promoters, was “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.” In practice, this devolves down to something closer to “Put in as little as possible, and take out as much as possible.” Capitalists go at it the same way, but because what you can take out is closely coupled to how much you put in, people are motivated to put more into the system, thereby raising the wealth o Mar 16 17:13
Balrog << quote Mar 16 17:13
schestowitz Extreme capitalism is the issue Mar 16 17:14
schestowitz Not capita Mar 16 17:14
schestowitz It becomes destructive Mar 16 17:14
schestowitz Intellecutuals who criticise this are many Mar 16 17:15
schestowitz Are the Nobel-winning economists “Marxist” for slamming the patent system? Mar 16 17:15
tessier_ Not at all. Mar 16 17:15
schestowitz It’s a lot of — as one person calls it — the consent system, IIRC Mar 16 17:15
schestowitz Let’s all pretend that patents=innocation Mar 16 17:15
schestowitz *innovation Mar 16 17:15
tessier_ Marxism wasn’t all wrong. Just mostly wrong. Mar 16 17:15
schestowitz Then we’ll have an orgy of this assumption and write glorious papers to defend it Mar 16 17:16
schestowitz Those who oppose it will be ridiculed Mar 16 17:16
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