Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 26th, 2009 - Part 1

GNOME Gedit



Enter the IRC channel now





To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.





schestowitzNice project they got there: Free books! < http://www.tuxradar.com/cont... >Mar 26 00:04
*Eruaran has quit ("No Ping reply in 30 seconds.")Mar 26 00:29
*Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 00:29
schestowitzEruaran: lots of good KDE news todayMar 26 00:55
schestowitzI'll post some shortly in daily linksMar 26 00:55
schestowitzSeigo is back ti blogging tooMar 26 00:56
*_Hicham_1 has quit ("Leaving.")Mar 26 03:32
balzacMinceR: I agree about the SSL scare-screen when you have no certificate-authority.Mar 26 03:33
balzacI'm not scared of encryption for its own sake.Mar 26 03:34
balzacA plugin would be good for that, and there are also variants of FF which don't carry the trademark, so they can allow informed users to shoulder more risk.Mar 26 03:34
*zer0c00l (n=student@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 03:52
*zer0c00l has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 26 03:53
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 04:26
*Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 26 04:48
*twitter has quit ("Leaving.")Mar 26 06:04
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 26 06:54
schestowitzMoin'Mar 26 09:04
PetoKraus:) same for you, mate :PMar 26 09:08
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 26 09:13
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 09:13
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@115.110.dsl.brs.iprimus.net.au) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 09:43
MinceRhayMar 26 09:48
oiaohm?Mar 26 09:48
*amd-linux (i=54393035@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-2bc55dcd57808d17) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 09:49
trmancololMar 26 09:50
amd-linuxdid you guys already test Google Chromium Linux Alpha? I just "benchmarked" it against FF 3.5 beta3 and boy, that is a difference....Mar 26 09:51
MinceRnot yetMar 26 09:52
oiaohmChromium will beat firefox hands down.Mar 26 09:52
amd-linuxfrom my feeling, Chromium is at least 3x faster than ShiretokoMar 26 09:52
trmancoyeahMar 26 09:52
MinceRshiretoko is ff3.5?Mar 26 09:52
trmancobut Chrome is also -10x extensible than FirefoxMar 26 09:52
amd-linuxits amazing it starts within nothingMar 26 09:52
oiaohmChromium does not have the lead weight of sqlite and other things on it.Mar 26 09:53
amd-linuxshiretoko is FF 3.5 beta3Mar 26 09:53
trmancoMinceR, yes nightly versionsMar 26 09:53
MinceRlinks2 starts instantly too ;)Mar 26 09:53
amd-linux;-)Mar 26 09:53
oiaohmWere you using a ext3 or ext4 partition where firefox was running.Mar 26 09:53
amd-linuxext4 for bothMar 26 09:53
oiaohmext3 kinka nobbles sqliteMar 26 09:53
trmancoMinceR, no javascript in linksMar 26 09:53
trmancoI like w3mMar 26 09:53
MinceRwe were discussing startup timeMar 26 09:53
oiaohmkonqueror vs Chromium would be more intersting.Mar 26 09:54
oiaohmBoth use releated rendering engines.Mar 26 09:54
MinceRi think startup time is just a little part of what mattersMar 26 09:54
amd-linuxwell anyway for what do I need a database in my browser? honestly, do you have so many bookmarks?Mar 26 09:54
trmancooops, I thought you guys were discussing javascript speedMar 26 09:54
MinceRi care more about how it will perform if i open 12 tabs with typically bloated pages in them :>Mar 26 09:54
amd-linuxI dont and if so I would you Google Notes or something like thisMar 26 09:55
MinceRrendering and javascript speed both figures into itMar 26 09:55
oiaohmChromium will currently wine that MinceRMar 26 09:55
oiaohmwine/winMar 26 09:55
oiaohmChromium will force Firefox to fix up performance issues.Mar 26 09:55
amd-linuxChromium on Moblin that will be a nice teamMar 26 09:55
oiaohm16 seconds complete boot of Moblin is quite impressive.Mar 26 09:55
oiaohmInterface in 8Mar 26 09:56
amd-linuxMoblin Alpha1 started much faster in Virtualbox here that my host OS Ubuntu 8.10Mar 26 09:56
amd-linuxalthough Ubuntu 9.04 is also a huge improvementMar 26 09:56
amd-linuxwith ext4, very fastMar 26 09:56
amd-linuxbut not like Moblin. Moblin is really impressive.Mar 26 09:57
schestowitzoiaohm: Firefox already works on performanceMar 26 09:58
schestowitzI posted about 3 links last nightMar 26 09:58
schestowitzChromium pushes to them, in partMar 26 09:58
schestowitzKonqueror is not particularly fast based on my experience.Mar 26 09:58
oiaohmI should have been more targeted KDE 4.x version of KonquerorMar 26 09:59
oiaohmThe 3.x lines of it are not that fast.Mar 26 09:59
amd-linuxfor me, it is very much about starting - and here, FF got a lame duckMar 26 09:59
amd-linuxChromium starts as if it sits on a ramdiskMar 26 09:59
oiaohmKonqueror 3.5 beats firefox in starting too.Mar 26 10:00
oiaohmBeating firefox in starting is not that hard.Mar 26 10:00
amd-linuxand imagine it has to invoke a terminal winow first here as it is AlphaMar 26 10:00
MinceRsadly, ext4 is a data destroyer with its default settings.Mar 26 10:01
amd-linuxbut startup times are important as it is what you feel as a user. page rendering in 0.5 or 0.7 secs to me is not important I have DSL anywayMar 26 10:01
oiaohmExt4 is not marked for productin use yet MinceRMar 26 10:01
oiaohmExt4 for production use is in 2.6.30 that is not released yet.Mar 26 10:01
MinceRits design is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what journaling is for and what POSIX applies toMar 26 10:01
MinceRthankfully, there are 2 settings you can set that makes it behave reliablyMar 26 10:02
oiaohmLook at Ext3 its not that much better in lot of areas.Mar 26 10:02
MinceR(afaik)Mar 26 10:02
amd-linuxwell, I love EXT4 as it gives Ubuntu a nice performance pushMar 26 10:02
MinceRext3 can be trusted to not zero out your files on a power outage with default settingsMar 26 10:02
oiaohmExt4 has fix up patches for 2.6.30 that cover the issues you are talking about MinceRMar 26 10:03
amd-linuxMinceR, but I still came in situations where it was a nightmare to restore - with ext3 on server installationsMar 26 10:03
MinceRoiaohm: indeed, but they're nondefault, afaikMar 26 10:03
amd-linuxthe best imho is to use virtual machines and regular snapshotsMar 26 10:04
oiaohmIe merge window for 2.6.30 is not open yet.Mar 26 10:04
oiaohmI have seen some of the planed patches and yes alterations to defualt is included MinceRMar 26 10:04
PetoKrausext4 pfffMar 26 10:05
oiaohmThe price of using a file system before its declared production ready is sometime data loss.Mar 26 10:05
oiaohmBecides ext4 is the last of its line.Mar 26 10:05
oiaohmBtrfs will most likely take over from it.Mar 26 10:05
amd-linuxthen comes butter-fs :-)Mar 26 10:05
oiaohmbtrfs or tuxMar 26 10:05
oiaohmYes there is a filesystem called tuxMar 26 10:06
amd-linuxtux is a one man show?Mar 26 10:06
PetoKraustux is not meant to be for home useMar 26 10:06
PetoKrausas far as i gatheredMar 26 10:06
amd-linuxas far as I know not many developers?Mar 26 10:06
PetoKrausyeahMar 26 10:06
amd-linuxwhile butter is backed by OracleMar 26 10:06
oiaohmLot can happen between now and next year.Mar 26 10:06
PetoKrausanyway, jfs suits me betterMar 26 10:06
PetoKrausthan any ext nowMar 26 10:06
oiaohmI am just being future careful saying tuxMar 26 10:07
PetoKrausi'm just scared of these "data losses"Mar 26 10:07
PetoKrauswhat i would like to see fixed is the xorg stackMar 26 10:07
PetoKrauswayland, anyone?Mar 26 10:07
oiaohmwayland is a testing ground.Mar 26 10:08
PetoKrausbut in a year's time...Mar 26 10:08
oiaohmMajor things holding up the update to the xorg stack are drivers and galluin3dMar 26 10:08
PetoKrauswell i would like to fix the leaksMar 26 10:08
PetoKrausthe memory leaksMar 26 10:08
MinceRmy problem with the ext4 failure is the excuse Ted T'so (sp?) made up for itMar 26 10:09
oiaohmMemory leaks are way less operating in DRI2 mode than DRI1Mar 26 10:09
PetoKrausit's goodMar 26 10:09
oiaohmwith standard x.orgMar 26 10:09
PetoKrausthe excuse i meanMar 26 10:09
PetoKraushe has a pointMar 26 10:09
MinceRno, he doesn'tMar 26 10:11
MinceRthe POSIX standard doesn't specify journaling either, does it?Mar 26 10:11
amd-linuxdid you guys here anything new about a native port of Steam to Linux? That is what I am really waiting for.... TF crashes here with fglrx even when I use PlayOnLinuxMar 26 10:11
MinceRby his logic it shouldn't be implementedMar 26 10:11
PetoKrausMinceR: i don't care about journalingMar 26 10:11
PetoKrausi care about programmers not doing fsync()Mar 26 10:11
MinceRalso, by that logic no new features, no performance or reliability improvements should be implemented eitherMar 26 10:11
MinceReverMar 26 10:11
PetoKrausi mean, even at Glasgow they tell you to do fsync()Mar 26 10:11
MinceRthe whole idea of data journaling (or metadata journaling _with_ ordered writes) is that the fs remains consistentMar 26 10:12
MinceRand not in the XFS sense where it makes you lose your dataMar 26 10:12
MinceRif you didn't care about consistency, why use journaling or run fsck after a crash at all?Mar 26 10:12
MinceRbblMar 26 10:13
oiaohmjournaling is not the only solution to conistancy.Mar 26 10:13
oiaohmatomic writes is another way.Mar 26 10:13
PetoKraushmm, reiser4 :PMar 26 10:14
oiaohmI will never fell sorry for anyone using a filesystem before its declared production ready.Mar 26 10:15
PetoKraus:)Mar 26 10:16
PetoKrausI will never feel sorry for anyone using ubuntu :PMar 26 10:16
PetoKrausoh beranger got me raging last timeMar 26 10:16
trmanco:|Mar 26 10:17
PetoKrauswith his "i want something lightweight, not rolling release, not time freeze, with source codes, easy, with all the apps i want" attitudeMar 26 10:17
PetoKrausit's like standing on the crossroads and saying, i need to go somewhere, but i can't go left, and i can't go right, because i don't like the road, and i can't go forward, because there's a car.Mar 26 10:18
PetoKraush4lp.Mar 26 10:18
PetoKraus:)Mar 26 10:19
schestowitzPetoKraus: so he's back to Linux, sort of?Mar 26 10:27
schestowitzAttention-whoring with Windows stuff ain't working out for him, is it?Mar 26 10:27
schestowitzBN spews some errors... DB issues.Mar 26 10:44
*amd-linux has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Mar 26 10:46
oiaohmHis arguments fell in on him schestowitzMar 26 10:58
trmancoschestowitz, repair and optimize :-PMar 26 11:02
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 11:15
schestowitzSJVN fixed the spelling of my name in his articleMar 26 11:19
schestowitzHe misread my notes that said:Mar 26 11:19
schestowitzOne key point, as expressed by a friend of mine this morning, is that there are two stories being told or at least two versions of the same story: "Version one: Microsoft and Novell work on interoperability for the benefit of the Linux community."; "Version two: Microsoft infects Open Source with the Novell/Microsoft patent covenant, Mono/.NET, and Microsoft codecs."Mar 26 11:20
schestowitzSJVN didn't see that it was attributed to a friendMar 26 11:20
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.5.59) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 11:22
_Hicham_Hi RoyMar 26 11:23
oiaohmDesporation is setting in on the MS side they are trying to fud push businesses into not waiting for sp1 of windows 7Mar 26 11:24
_Hicham_oiaohm : do u have any internal news about Windows 7?Mar 26 11:28
oiaohmOther than already classing it secuirty alterations as pointless?Mar 26 11:29
oiaohmAnd going to drive most techs up the wall by removing there classic view.Mar 26 11:29
_Hicham_what classic view?Mar 26 11:31
oiaohmcontrol panel classic view.Mar 26 11:34
oiaohmIn vista and XP it opens up ways to get to a few more functions to correct problems.Mar 26 11:34
oiaohmWindows 7 its registry diving to fix them now.Mar 26 11:34
schestowitzoiaohm: there was another astroturf, I thinkMar 26 11:34
schestowitzSome unnamed entity push the idea of that Beta of Vista7 should be released as finalMar 26 11:35
schestowitzThey set up some domainMar 26 11:35
schestowitzIt's part of the hype factory, I thinkMar 26 11:35
oiaohmWindows 7 is 100 percent not ready.Mar 26 11:35
oiaohmIt secuirty is no where near ready.Mar 26 11:35
schestowitzI know.Mar 26 11:35
schestowitzI wrote like 5 posts about Vista7 securityMar 26 11:36
oiaohmI would say at least another 12 months is requiredMar 26 11:36
schestowitzIt fails badlyMar 26 11:36
schestowitzNot even VIsta had so much bad security-related PR prior to releaseMar 26 11:36
oiaohmSomehow I don't think MS will be waiting that long for release.Mar 26 11:36
oiaohmVista had bad secuiryt.Mar 26 11:36
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, 2010 is expected release yearMar 26 11:36
oiaohmMS keeps on missing the major problem.Mar 26 11:36
oiaohmServices.Mar 26 11:36
schestowitzYesMar 26 11:36
oiaohmBy 2010 lot of the need Linux desktop alterations should be in place and stablised.Mar 26 11:37
schestowitzWhich ones? KDE 4.5?Mar 26 11:44
oiaohmDRI2 and KMS to stablies the desktop so crashes of X11 no longer take out everything.Mar 26 11:46
oiaohmHopefully btrfs so snapshoting of filesystem for user roll backs can be enabled.Mar 26 11:47
oiaohmAnd machine to machine migration of running applications.  So laptop to desktop and back again with applications.Mar 26 11:47
MinceRoiaohm: like i've said before, Ts'o's excuse wasn't that it isn't production ready, it was that POSIX doesn't require itMar 26 11:48
oiaohmYes in non production state they try getting away with the min able MinceRMar 26 11:49
oiaohmThey did the same with ext3 too MinceRMar 26 11:49
MinceRext3 workedMar 26 11:49
oiaohmBefore ext3 got production ready status there were quite a few alterations to its default settings.Mar 26 11:50
oiaohmYes it was a long time ago people either never lived through it or want to forget some the the issues before production ready status was granted.Mar 26 11:51
zer0c00lhttp://gracelyne.wordpress.com/2009...Mar 26 11:56
zer0c00l:PMar 26 11:56
*mib_zwat16 (i=4bc54b88@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f1073be670210a1b) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 11:57
*mib_zwat16 has quit (Client Quit)Mar 26 11:58
schestowitzzer0c00l: what to do about it....?Mar 26 12:00
zer0c00ljust infoMar 26 12:01
schestowitzThey get the Microsoft treatment/orgy.Mar 26 12:01
zer0c00lFYIMar 26 12:01
zer0c00lhahahaMar 26 12:01
schestowitzMoneyfestMar 26 12:01
schestowitzWe pay you, you pay usMar 26 12:01
schestowitzHelp us addict kids for a livingMar 26 12:01
schestowitzThat's why they call it "Dark Forces" :-)Mar 26 12:01
Eruaranhi allMar 26 12:32
_Hicham_hi EruaranMar 26 12:33
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Mar 26 12:34
EruaranheyMar 26 12:36
EruaranI think I know how to measure the success of GNU/LinuxMar 26 12:36
EruaranWatch how rabid and feral Microsoft getsMar 26 12:37
EruaranThe worse Microsoft behaves, the more successful GNU/Linux must beMar 26 12:38
oiaohmMs is self destructing.Mar 26 12:39
oiaohmNothing really linux is doing that much.Mar 26 12:39
oiaohmThey were the idiots who tried to under cut Linux to win.Mar 26 12:39
oiaohmOnly to put there complete market at risk.Mar 26 12:39
MinceRtheir complete market was at risk anywayMar 26 12:40
MinceRsince a competitor they couldn't buy appearedMar 26 12:40
EruaranIts either lower the price of your product to compete and face diminishing profit margins, or keep your profit margin per license high and allow yourself to be marginalized... Does Microsoft really have a third option other than patent tomfoolery ?Mar 26 12:41
oiaohmI really wished MS had been stupid enough to enter the embeded motherboard market.Mar 26 12:41
oiaohmEntering a patent war MS risks being out gunned.Mar 26 12:41
MinceRif their platform didn't suck, they could release it under a FLOSS license.Mar 26 12:42
oiaohmMicrosoft does have a third option copy sun.Mar 26 12:42
MinceRthen again, if their platform didn't suck, they'd have a chance of competing based on merit and quality.Mar 26 12:42
oiaohmFire most of there staffMar 26 12:42
oiaohmInvest there money and wait it out.Mar 26 12:42
EruaranAnd get bought out by IBM ? ;)Mar 26 12:43
oiaohmYep eventually.Mar 26 12:43
oiaohmYep wait it out until someone decides to buy you.Mar 26 12:43
oiaohmThen profit.Mar 26 12:44
oiaohmthrid option see MS out the software game.Mar 26 12:44
EruaranWho would buy Microsoft after their value has diminished greatly and don't have a real strategy entering into a new paradigm of free software and service based offerings ?Mar 26 12:45
oiaohmNeither did sun with the great colospe of Unix.Mar 26 12:45
oiaohmIn the waiting stage they restructed and made themselfs a sellable product.Mar 26 12:45
oiaohmThird option really suxs for MS.Mar 26 12:46
oiaohmProblem MS has people will be demarding better quality programs.Mar 26 12:47
oiaohmBuilding better quality programs cost developer time.Mar 26 12:47
MinceRit also needs a restructuring of a companyMar 26 12:48
MinceRprobably new people tooMar 26 12:48
oiaohmThere income is reduced.Mar 26 12:48
_Hicham_that is why they created codeplexMar 26 12:48
oiaohmYepMar 26 12:48
_Hicham_hoping to gather a community around themMar 26 12:48
oiaohmThey are in trouble big time.Mar 26 12:48
MinceRthat won't do muchMar 26 12:48
_Hicham_and offering visual studio for free for studentsMar 26 12:48
oiaohmYep.Mar 26 12:48
MinceRthey have to change themselves otherwise they're doomedMar 26 12:48
oiaohmthey need cheep developers or they die.Mar 26 12:48
oiaohmProblem is MS people have closed source so heavly ingrained there is not that many free programmer.Mar 26 12:49
_Hicham_codeplex is slow to be adoptedMar 26 12:49
oiaohmMS layed the seads that are killing them.Mar 26 12:49
oiaohmThey birthed the idea that closed source was good.Mar 26 12:49
_Hicham_there is the shared license thingMar 26 12:49
_Hicham_but it is uselessMar 26 12:49
oiaohmAgain desperation.Mar 26 12:50
oiaohmMS will get more and more desperate.Mar 26 12:50
_Hicham_because the shared license is for api clarificationMar 26 12:50
EruaranMicrosoft seems schizophrenicMar 26 12:50
_Hicham_i think that google developed chrome with a shared license thingMar 26 12:50
oiaohmIf you told most people 8 years ago that MS would create a shared license and a codeplex they would have laughed at you.Mar 26 12:50
MinceRshared source was their first attempt at lying that they're for FLOSSMar 26 12:50
_Hicham_because many of its api are undocumentedMar 26 12:50
EruaranChromium is openMar 26 12:50
MinceRthey've already realized that it has failedMar 26 12:50
oiaohmchrome is gplMar 26 12:50
oiaohmOppsMar 26 12:51
EruaranI read Google's licenseMar 26 12:51
oiaohmThat is a branch.Mar 26 12:51
EruaranIts okMar 26 12:51
oiaohmGoogle uses a really open licenceMar 26 12:51
_Hicham_Chrome is not GPLMar 26 12:51
_Hicham_Chromium is GPLMar 26 12:51
EruaranIt includes a clause against patent aggressorsMar 26 12:51
EruaranOh sorryMar 26 12:51
EruaranI'm thinking of AndroidMar 26 12:52
_Hicham_Chrome=Chromium+Proprietary ComponentsMar 26 12:52
oiaohmGoogle is only the the OS war for 1 reason.Mar 26 12:52
oiaohmThey need customers able to access them.Mar 26 12:52
oiaohmMS has caused Google to attack them.Mar 26 12:52
oiaohmIf MS never came after the web market google would have never attacked them.Mar 26 12:53
oiaohmThis is MS problem all its actions are coming back and biting.Mar 26 12:53
_Hicham_Microsoft on the Web is crappyMar 26 12:53
oiaohmYep remember Microsoft at one point threated to destroy google.Mar 26 12:54
oiaohmThey never had the skills to back that threat up.Mar 26 12:54
oiaohmProblem is google does have the means and the skills to over time nuke MS.Mar 26 12:54
MinceRand who will nuke google?Mar 26 12:55
oiaohmUnlikely anyone will be able to.Mar 26 12:55
MinceR:(Mar 26 12:55
oiaohmIts a simple lack of resoursed problem.Mar 26 12:56
oiaohmThere is no simple way to replace googles database of sites.Mar 26 12:56
_Hicham_Google is gonna take over the WebMar 26 12:56
_Hicham_there is no way outMar 26 12:56
EruaranThey already have their own copyMar 26 12:56
_Hicham_it is starting with a browserMar 26 12:56
oiaohmthe internet archive might be the only place that could take on google.Mar 26 12:56
MinceRwhy?Mar 26 12:57
oiaohmIts database of sites MinceRMar 26 12:57
oiaohmThat is what going to screw you trying to replace google.Mar 26 12:57
MinceRanyone can build oneMar 26 12:57
oiaohmHow long do you think it takes to spider and index.Mar 26 12:57
MinceRif there was enough need in the community for it, it could even be done in a distributed wayMar 26 12:57
_Hicham_an eternityMar 26 12:57
MinceRlike YaCy doesMar 26 12:58
oiaohmThen you get your search method that works.Mar 26 12:58
MinceRgoogle spiders every few days, don't they?Mar 26 12:58
oiaohmDo you know how big googles servers are.Mar 26 12:58
_Hicham_MinceR : every few hoursMar 26 12:58
oiaohmYes hours MinceRMar 26 12:58
MinceRothers can buy big servers tooMar 26 12:58
oiaohmIts not 1 big server.Mar 26 12:59
MinceRanyone can buy any number of serversMar 26 12:59
_Hicham_I put a software on sourceforge.net on 11:00 am, by 2:00 pm, it was indexed all over the webMar 26 12:59
MinceRit's only a question of moneyMar 26 12:59
oiaohmYou are talking about 1 000 000 shipping container servers.Mar 26 12:59
oiaohmAs a starting number.Mar 26 12:59
MinceRremember google started graduallyMar 26 12:59
MinceRand some other companies have a large network of servers tooMar 26 13:00
MinceRCDN operators, for exampleMar 26 13:00
EruaranYou've got to have something people want in order to justify the cost of building the kind of server farms you'd need to equal Google's infrastructure.Mar 26 13:00
MinceRand once again, a peer-to-peer approach is still feasibleMar 26 13:00
oiaohmThere is no server farm the size of google other than google MinceRMar 26 13:00
MinceRoiaohm: not _yet_Mar 26 13:00
oiaohmYou would have to build 1Mar 26 13:00
EruaranYou've got to have something that captures people's attention and draws them away from using Google, its that simple.Mar 26 13:00
oiaohmNot a simple process.Mar 26 13:00
MinceRthe first adopters won't need that much capacity anywayMar 26 13:01
oiaohmGoogle was the most borning web site on earth when it stared.Mar 26 13:01
MinceRas the number of users grows, so can the capacityMar 26 13:01
oiaohmRemember yahoo and google both started at the same time.Mar 26 13:01
oiaohmYahoo fancy interface.Mar 26 13:01
oiaohmgoogle dead plainMar 26 13:01
oiaohmwhy did google win good search results.Mar 26 13:01
MinceRPageRank worked well back thenMar 26 13:02
MinceRnot sure if it still doesMar 26 13:02
oiaohmSearch engine without good search results is a paper weight.Mar 26 13:02
EruaranThere was a kid in Melbourne I think it wasMar 26 13:02
EruaranI think he was going to RMITMar 26 13:02
EruaranHe came up with some brilliant search algorithmMar 26 13:02
oiaohmgoogle spends a lot of money each year keeping ahead of anyone trying to cheat the ranking system.Mar 26 13:03
EruaranThere was a bidding warMar 26 13:03
EruaranGoogle wonMar 26 13:03
oiaohmGoogle normally does win those biding wars.Mar 26 13:03
EruaranHe works for Google nowMar 26 13:03
MinceRspending a lot of money is not the same as succeedingMar 26 13:03
EruaranThey spend a lot of money buying brainsMar 26 13:03
EruaranBrains they don't want working for the competitionMar 26 13:03
MinceRand as they piss people off more and more, those costs will growMar 26 13:03
oiaohmyou have to catch up in hardware and brains MinceRMar 26 13:03
oiaohmGoogle avoid where able pissing people off.Mar 26 13:04
MinceRnot reallyMar 26 13:04
oiaohmThey do.Mar 26 13:04
EruaranSooner or later, someone will come up with something, and Google wont be able to buy them.Mar 26 13:04
ushimitsudokinot just that - many other "search engines" lost focus on search and tried to be "portals". Google does this much better now, by allowing all the customization. A "portal" where someone else decides what is shown is far inferior to a portal that I can control.Mar 26 13:04
MinceRif they did, we wouldn't be having this discussionMar 26 13:04
oiaohmSomeone already has put up stuff google cannot buy MinceRMar 26 13:05
oiaohmgoogle is more than happy to just out compete.Mar 26 13:05
EruaranHow many search engines are there that don't suck ?Mar 26 13:05
MinceR141241 < oiaohm> Google avoid where able pissing people off.Mar 26 13:05
MinceRif they did, we wouldn't be having this discussionMar 26 13:05
MinceR(in context)Mar 26 13:05
oiaohmNot the were able MinceRMar 26 13:06
oiaohmNoteMar 26 13:06
oiaohmIts basically impossiable to do business without pissing someone off.Mar 26 13:06
oiaohmGoogle keeps those numbers really low compared to a lot of other companies.Mar 26 13:06
oiaohmOut competing google is going to be extreamlly hard.Mar 26 13:07
oiaohmGoogle lives for competition.  They even run compeition between there branches.Mar 26 13:07
oiaohmA competition just becomes and other thing to do better than for them.Mar 26 13:07
oiaohmthey are not posioned by MS style of business.Mar 26 13:08
oiaohmDestroying Google is like trying to destroy cisco systems.Mar 26 13:08
oiaohmBoth very resistant to destruction.Mar 26 13:08
ushimitsudokiThe only likely way for Google to "fail" is if they make a series of poor decisions (which is quite possible). I think it is extremely unlikely though, that some magic search algorithm will come along that "dethrones" Google.Mar 26 13:09
oiaohmBasically google would have to kill google.Mar 26 13:10
ushimitsudokiexactlyMar 26 13:10
oiaohmThere is basically nothing else strong enough.Mar 26 13:10
ushimitsudokiMicrosoft Live Search can not even get something as simple as user language preference right. They are a total joke.Mar 26 13:11
_Hicham_Google will buy Microsoft, end of the storyMar 26 13:11
oiaohmDependsMar 26 13:12
oiaohmIBM or HP might by Microsoft as well.Mar 26 13:12
ushimitsudokiNah, Microsoft has a long long future of leveraging Windows into other markets in front of them.Mar 26 13:12
oiaohmDefine long.Mar 26 13:13
ushimitsudoki~20 yearsMar 26 13:13
oiaohmIf long is 3 year I might agree.Mar 26 13:13
oiaohmYou are not allowing for reactos or wine in your thinking ushimitsudokiMar 26 13:13
oiaohmOpen source is not just attacking MS on 1 side.Mar 26 13:14
_Hicham_ReactOS is a real threat I thinkMar 26 13:14
ushimitsudokiReactOS is not even worth thinking about.Mar 26 13:14
ushimitsudokiAbsolute waste of timeMar 26 13:14
_Hicham_did u try ReactOS?Mar 26 13:14
_Hicham_I tried it on Virtual MachineMar 26 13:14
ushimitsudokiNo. Why would I?Mar 26 13:14
ushimitsudokiIf I wanted to run Windows, I would run windows.Mar 26 13:15
_Hicham_and it has almost all Windows featuresMar 26 13:15
_Hicham_the API is going the same way as Windows' APIMar 26 13:15
oiaohmushimitsudoki:  you just said the same line unix people said about linux but with Windows about reactos.Mar 26 13:15
ushimitsudokiThat is the wrong approach, I think. The "trick" is to show people the value of freedom and the value of the Unix-way; to win on philosophical and technical grounds.Mar 26 13:16
_Hicham_they almost finished COM+ implementationMar 26 13:16
ushimitsudokiUnix is not analogous to Windows.Mar 26 13:16
oiaohmIts a double sided hit.Mar 26 13:16
oiaohmIf you cannot defeat them one way defeat them the other.Mar 26 13:16
_Hicham_ReactOS is not a Windows CloneMar 26 13:16
_Hicham_remember thatMar 26 13:16
ushimitsudokiReactOS is a giant waste of time. Huge stinking waste of time.Mar 26 13:17
_Hicham_its strategy is not like linux with unixMar 26 13:17
oiaohmWine means to emulate direct x will increase.Mar 26 13:17
_Hicham_ReactOS aims to be Windows compatibleMar 26 13:17
_Hicham_at firstMar 26 13:17
oiaohmReactOS will force MS value for there OS down.Mar 26 13:17
ushimitsudokiWine, on the other hand, is an important and signficant projectMar 26 13:17
oiaohmUnder livable levels.Mar 26 13:18
_Hicham_ReactOS is stronger than WineMar 26 13:18
ushimitsudokipfftMar 26 13:18
oiaohmReally ReactOS and wine are linked.Mar 26 13:18
_Hicham_it gives a complete platform replacementMar 26 13:18
_Hicham_ReactOS and Wine work togetherMar 26 13:18
_Hicham_on DirectX implementation for exampleMar 26 13:19
oiaohmThere is also the unifiled kenel that aimed to bring windows drivers to linux using reactos data.Mar 26 13:19
oiaohmBasically when windows is documented more options open up.Mar 26 13:19
_Hicham_that would be pretty interestingMar 26 13:19
_Hicham_that is the problem oiaohmMar 26 13:19
_Hicham_Windows is not very documentedMar 26 13:20
_Hicham_and u seen the code from 2004Mar 26 13:20
_Hicham_it is just full of swearing and fucking wordsMar 26 13:20
oiaohmReactOS and Wine are both key projects leading to a fianl destruction.Mar 26 13:20
oiaohmMS knows thisMar 26 13:20
oiaohmMS though they had more time.   So planed to do away with NT desing by 2010.Mar 26 13:21
oiaohmThings are happening before MS expected.Mar 26 13:21
ushimitsudokiNo. It is an error to assign the same importance to ReactOS as Wine. ReactOS is like 1-3% as important as Wine is.Mar 26 13:21
oiaohmReactOS opens up access to documentation to reverse windows only drivers or run them by other means ushimitsudokiMar 26 13:22
oiaohmThat is a important final kill off move.Mar 26 13:22
ushimitsudokiIn fact, the only value in ReactOS is whatever contributions it makes to the Wine project or other open-source project. On its own, I would call it absolutely worthless.Mar 26 13:22
oiaohmI don'tMar 26 13:23
_Hicham_it is important on its own alsoMar 26 13:23
oiaohmWith virtualisation you could run Reactos inside Linux for lot of those odd ball drivers.Mar 26 13:23
oiaohmWine does not work on driver support.Mar 26 13:23
_Hicham_trueMar 26 13:24
oiaohmIE final kill depends on allowing windows to be removed from everyhwere.Mar 26 13:24
_Hicham_IE is a real threat for the WebMar 26 13:24
_Hicham_u can't remove it from WindowsMar 26 13:24
oiaohmReactos is important for 1 major reason drivers.Mar 26 13:24
_Hicham_and u have to use IE on Linux also sometimesMar 26 13:25
oiaohmWine is important due to its cross platform nature.Mar 26 13:25
ushimitsudokiThe correct answer to the driver problem is linux gaining enough market share so that drivers for linux make as much sense as drivers for windows to OEMs. ReactOS doesn't help solve that.Mar 26 13:25
oiaohmDifferent reasons of importance.   Either is more important than there other. To win out right you need both.Mar 26 13:25
oiaohmushimitsudoki: its old devices.Mar 26 13:26
oiaohmI still have places running windows 3.11 for old strange devices.Mar 26 13:26
ushimitsudokioiaohm: then virtualize an appropriate old version of windowsMar 26 13:26
oiaohmOr run reactos virtualised that does not need a windows licence ushimitsudokiMar 26 13:26
oiaohmThat the the importance of Reactos cuts off last source of money from Windows OS.Mar 26 13:27
ushimitsudokiReactOS is like mono. A half-assed clone of a microsoft technology that will always be partially complete, out of date and a distraction at best and dangerous at worse for FLOSSMar 26 13:27
_Hicham_wrongMar 26 13:27
oiaohmYou could make the same line about wine ushimitsudokiMar 26 13:27
ushimitsudokiNo you can't - not and be accurate anywayMar 26 13:27
oiaohmYou can ushimitsudokiMar 26 13:28
EruaranWine is a cleanroom projectMar 26 13:28
ushimitsudokiWine is not analgous to either ReactOS or monoMar 26 13:28
_Hicham_ushimitsudoki : it is reverse engineeringMar 26 13:28
EruaranMono isn'tMar 26 13:28
ushimitsudokiI wish people would stop trying to draw that comparisonMar 26 13:28
oiaohmWine is cashing a moving target so is Reactos.Mar 26 13:28
oiaohmBoth can catch it.Mar 26 13:28
schestowitzoiaohm: why would HP or IBM buy Microsoft? They already have an OSMar 26 13:28
_Hicham_Roy : to dominate the MarketMar 26 13:29
oiaohmIts a bit like why is IBM thinking buying SUN.Mar 26 13:29
_Hicham_Windows is more than 90% on desktopsMar 26 13:29
oiaohmBy buying Microsoft they are removed from being a future problem to them.Mar 26 13:29
oiaohmSame way MS has aquired companys that have been a problem to them.Mar 26 13:29
ushimitsudokiHP market Cap: 84B MS market cap: 169B. HP will not be buying MS.Mar 26 13:31
ushimitsudokitalk sense.Mar 26 13:31
oiaohmWho said I was saying today ushimitsudokiMar 26 13:32
ushimitsudokiwhen? when exactly do you expect HP market cap to overtake MS? In the next 3-5 years?Mar 26 13:32
schestowitzHP will buy Microsoft...... a hot dog.Mar 26 13:32
ushimitsudokiMicrosoft would have to start burning money in the courtyard.Mar 26 13:32
oiaohmYou just said exactly what I kinda expect to start happening ushimitsudokiMar 26 13:33
oiaohmGetting into major legal disputes don't do bottom line any good.Mar 26 13:34
schestowitzDidn't work for SCOMar 26 13:34
ushimitsudokiMicrosoft is evil, not mindless. They will not do anything idiotic. They just have a business model that is destined for long term failure, and I mean long-term. Like 20+ yearsMar 26 13:34
oiaohmThey already have done the idiotic action that could see them doomed in the next 5 years ushimitsudokiMar 26 13:34
ushimitsudokihaMar 26 13:34
ushimitsudokiha ha haMar 26 13:34
oiaohmtomtom case.Mar 26 13:35
oiaohmit is a pandoras box.Mar 26 13:35
EruaranMarket share in shipped units becomes meaningless if everyone is buying their new PC, taking it home and installing another OS.Mar 26 13:35
ushimitsudokiI would call a -2%/yr on the desktop for MS, a stunning rate of victory for us.Mar 26 13:36
oiaohmTomtom looked weak so they though they could threaten them into just handing over money.  Very idiotic mistake.Mar 26 13:36
ushimitsudokiMicrosoft will fail (or drastically change its business model), but it will be a long time coming.Mar 26 13:36
ushimitsudokiNot 3-5 yearsMar 26 13:36
EruaranI do not believe Microsoft will dramatically change. For all their pretense at changing, that is all it is, pretense.Mar 26 13:37
EruaranAnd this is why they are doomed.Mar 26 13:37
ushimitsudokiagree it is absolute pretense and PR right nowMar 26 13:37
oiaohmHow much money do you think MS has taken in using invalid patents ushimitsudokiMar 26 13:37
schestowitzHeh. Saying No To A Bonus: Google’s Kordestani Declines His Award < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-goo... >Mar 26 13:37
oiaohmHow many people do you think they have taken that money from with valid patents.Mar 26 13:37
ushimitsudokioiaohm: how is that relevant in any way?Mar 26 13:37
schestowitzoiaohm: Tomtom was just unprecedented for softwareMar 26 13:37
schestowitzMicrosoft contacted ITC over PrimaxMar 26 13:38
oiaohmThis is how MS could be already in trouble.Mar 26 13:38
schestowitzSo this is not their first patent attackMar 26 13:38
ushimitsudokimicrosoft operates in the same patent environment as every other tech company in the worldMar 26 13:38
schestowitzIt's the first that: 1) involves sw pats; 2) attacks LinuxMar 26 13:38
ushimitsudokithey will suffer (and profit) just like any other tech companyMar 26 13:38
ushimitsudokithe patent system is broken, no doubtMar 26 13:38
ushimitsudokisometimes that helps MS, and sometimes is hurtsMar 26 13:38
oiaohmIn the process MS most likely formed a lot of illegal contracts.Mar 26 13:38
ushimitsudokithe same for every other tech companyMar 26 13:38
oiaohmMost other tech companies are smart enought to not try finding back doors.Mar 26 13:39
oiaohmAnd do 100 percent solid contracts.Mar 26 13:39
oiaohmAvoiding patent covering open source as a whole is a very dangous move MS did.Mar 26 13:40
schestowitzhttp://twitter.com/glynmood... "Hooray! Chromium finally works on my Ubuntu box - all the previous versions just sat there, scratching themselves. "Mar 26 13:40
oiaohmIn a time that MS income has droped even that there market share has basically stayed the same.Mar 26 13:41
oiaohmIts not the time to be risking a major legal battle.Mar 26 13:41
oiaohmMS has to be praying they don't have a pandoras box from there actions.Mar 26 13:41
oiaohmSCO is a case of a company that had created its own pandoras box.Mar 26 13:42
ushimitsudokiwhat "pandora's box" do you think the tomtom situation has opened?Mar 26 13:42
EruaranBallmer is finished.Mar 26 13:42
EruaranHe's making shareholders too nervous.Mar 26 13:42
ushimitsudokii hope notMar 26 13:42
ushimitsudokiBallmer is the best (unwitting) ally opensource has in microsoft right nowMar 26 13:42
ushimitsudokiif they get rid of him, the danger of someone not-insane taking the helm might happenMar 26 13:43
oiaohmtomtom resisted ms.  Now it could turn out GPL licence restrictions hold on patent so equalling all MS patents agreed with other parties are now accessable to open source.Mar 26 13:43
ushimitsudokiimagine if Ballmer wasn't drooling at the mouth crazy, and was crafty and sly instead?Mar 26 13:43
oiaohmMost of MS patent portfolie could be rendered useless against a lot of companies.Mar 26 13:43
oiaohmSo leaving it fully open to a major patent attack.Mar 26 13:44
oiaohmTo the point it cannot ship producted due to not paying for patents.Mar 26 13:44
ushimitsudokiImagine some one like Bill Hilf or Sam Ramji in charge of MS, but with the same goals as BallmerMar 26 13:44
ushimitsudokithat is very scary to meMar 26 13:44
oiaohmPandoras box.Mar 26 13:44
schestowitzAbout 10 million copies of OpenOffice.org are now downloaded per month: http://www.mealldubh.org/index.php/2...Mar 26 13:44
oiaohmYou don't want to ever create something like that.Mar 26 13:45
EruaranI don't think it matters who becomes CEO of Microsoft after Ballmer. Microsoft has painted itself into a corner, and whoever comes next will have to radically remake Microsoft or take his golden handshake and consign Microsoft to the IT dinosaur nostalgia heap of history.Mar 26 13:45
schestowitzushimitsudoki: agreed re: ballmerMar 26 13:45
schestowitzYou want a madman running the nuthouse that competes with youMar 26 13:46
ushimitsudokiEruaran: I hope you are right. But I could see how someone who understands FLOSS, but is hostile to it could do -real- damage. Ballmer is too out of touch to land any good punchesMar 26 13:46
schestowitzHis investors want him tossedMar 26 13:46
schestowitzI got E-mails about itMar 26 13:46
ushimitsudokiWell, if I was a MS investor I would want him out too! :) But I'm not, and I want MS to fail, so keep the man in! Heck of a job, Stevie!Mar 26 13:47
oiaohmMind you a patent pandoras box MS would have the privilage of being the first company dumb enough to set off that theorical.Mar 26 13:48
EruaranPC: "hey who are you ?"Mar 26 13:48
EruaranTux: "I'm a penguin"Mar 26 13:49
EruaranPC: "no way, you're linux aren't you !"Mar 26 13:49
EruaranTux: "gah, the mission's been compromised"Mar 26 13:49
EruaranPC: "I'm gonna get you Linux"Mar 26 13:49
EruaranTux: "stop chasing me I'm a penguin"Mar 26 13:49
EruaranMac: :)Mar 26 13:51
oiaohmTuz: processed to eat the PCMar 26 13:51
schestowitzThe Gavin Clarke MS mouthpiece: "Microsoft: Judge us by our deeds on open source" < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03... >Mar 26 13:52
Eruaranhaha read thatMar 26 13:52
EruaranThats almost an April fool's jokeMar 26 13:52
EruaranwowMar 26 13:54
Eruaransince the latest updates Konqueror just crashes every time you try to fire up YouTubeMar 26 13:54
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009... "Subscription sales at Red Hat rose by 14.4 per cent"Mar 26 13:58
schestowitzEruaran: I will write about Clarke and MSMar 26 13:58
schestowitzLong one..Mar 26 13:58
schestowitzIs anyone paying attention to this in the mainstream media?Mar 26 13:59
schestowitzMainSTEAM :-)Mar 26 13:59
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 26 14:00
schestowitzWhy is The Register employing this troll... "Hey, Red Hat - Open-source help still lousy? "Zealots" wanted"" http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/...Mar 26 14:01
schestowitzIBM cuts 5000 workers (offshoring?) -- Pink slips at Big Blue < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... >Mar 26 14:04
schestowitzLinux on the desktop:oh, not that debate again!  < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/... >Mar 26 14:08
schestowitzNEC Australia restructure, sheds 153 jobs < http://www.itwire.com/conten... >Mar 26 14:11
*ChanServ has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:11
*zer0c00l has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:11
*PetoKraus has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:11
*Eruaran has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:11
*trmanco has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:11
*amarsh04 has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:11
*PeterFA has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:11
*logger_bot has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:11
*wtfyan has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:11
*macabe has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:11
*wtfyan (i=AdiIRC@eth-188.243-homell.natm.ru) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:12
*macabe (n=macabe@cpe-67-240-216-105.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:12
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Mar 26 14:12
*Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:13
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:13
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:13
*trmanco (i=trmanco@online.na.tuxSP.pt) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:13
*ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:13
*irc.freenode.net gives channel operator status to ChanServMar 26 14:13
schestowitz"Obama's Department of "Justice", full of former RIAA lawyers, has come to the support of the RIAA." < http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-j... >Mar 26 14:13
schestowitzhttp://www.stallman.org/archives/200... "The US and other countries plan to spend billions on an arms race for space weapons. The way to avoid this would be a disarmament treaty. Russia and China called for such a treaty, but the US blocked it"Mar 26 14:14
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.18.120) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:15
*_Hicham_ has quit (Client Quit)Mar 26 14:19
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-134-152.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:20
*PeterFA (n=Peter@unaffiliated/peterfa) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:26
*logger_bot (n=roy@baine.smb.man.ac.uk) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:26
*logger_bot has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:27
*PeterFA has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:27
-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all. One of our server sponsors appears to be having connectivity issues. Please keep with us while we try to resolve the issues. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for using freenode!Mar 26 14:31
*PeterFA (n=Peter@unaffiliated/peterfa) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:32
*logger_bot (n=roy@baine.smb.man.ac.uk) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:32
schestowitzAll back now?Mar 26 14:33
schestowitzSome of these were dropped off my server's visibility: <schestowitz> Linux on the desktop:oh, not that debate again!  < http://www.itwire.com/conte... > <schestowitz> NEC Australia restructure, sheds 153 jobs < http://www.itwire.com/conten... >Mar 26 14:33
schestowitz<schestowitz> "Obama's Department of "Justice", full of former RIAA lawyers, has come to the support of the RIAA." < http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jan-apr.h... >Mar 26 14:34
schestowitz<schestowitz> http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jan-apr... "The US and other countries plan to spend billions on an arms race for space weapons. The way to avoid this would be a disarmament treaty. Russia and China called for such a treaty, but the US blocked it"Mar 26 14:34
*logger_bot has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:39
*PeterFA has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Mar 26 14:39
schestowitzThe world's first programmer a female:  Celebrating Ada Lovelace: the 'world's first programmer'  < http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsh... >Mar 26 14:43
PetoKrauscleaning a laptop keyboard on the fly is fun!Mar 26 14:45
MinceR"on the fly" meaning?Mar 26 14:45
*roy__ (n=roy@baine.smb.man.ac.uk) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:45
*PeterF (n=Peter@67.170.108.193) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:45
PetoKrausthe laptop runningMar 26 14:46
PetoKrausbut, since i can type, it workedMar 26 14:46
schestowitzVacuum cleaner?Mar 26 14:46
PetoKrausnahMar 26 14:46
PetoKrausjust smashing it aroundMar 26 14:46
MinceRlolMar 26 14:46
PetoKrausand blowing air into itMar 26 14:46
PetoKrausMinceR: it's most effective wayMar 26 14:46
PetoKrausyou'd wonderMar 26 14:46
PetoKrausbut it isMar 26 14:47
MinceRit's also the most effective way to break the laptop :>Mar 26 14:47
schestowitzFor a laptopMar 26 14:47
PetoKrauswellMar 26 14:47
PetoKrausnot if you take the keyboard outMar 26 14:47
schestowitzWith desktop keyboard you can flip it and bang it on the table:-)Mar 26 14:47
PetoKrausyou can do that with a laptop one as wellMar 26 14:47
schestowitzYesMar 26 14:47
schestowitzScrews=takes timeMar 26 14:47
PetoKrausthat's why i'm saying "cleaning a laptop keyboard on the fly is fun"Mar 26 14:47
PetoKrausyeah.Mar 26 14:47
PetoKrausgodMar 26 14:48
MinceRyes?Mar 26 14:48
PetoKrausi'm trying hard to get the temp in my room under 12ۡ۩Mar 26 14:48
PetoKraus*CMar 26 14:48
PetoKrauscause that's the bottom of the range of the thermometer i have hereMar 26 14:48
MinceR:)Mar 26 14:48
PetoKrausi want to see what happens thenMar 26 14:48
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworld.com/action/a... (  Gone but not forgotten: 10 operating systems the world left behind ) There is still one called ADIOS.... a GNU/Linux distroMar 26 14:48
PetoKrausif it stays at 12, or discolours completelyMar 26 14:49
MinceRwhat kind of thermometer?Mar 26 14:49
PetoKraushmmMar 26 14:49
PetoKrausi dunno how do you call itMar 26 14:49
MinceRif it's mercury or similar, the liquid will just recede into the reservoirMar 26 14:49
PetoKrausit's basically just a piece of thermosensitive plastic foilMar 26 14:49
MinceRohMar 26 14:49
MinceRyou could put it into the fridge :>Mar 26 14:49
PetoKraussomething like this: http://www.hndrd.com/images/Wine%20...Mar 26 14:50
PetoKrausi think that one is calibrated in FMar 26 14:50
PetoKrausi hope it's not CMar 26 14:50
PetoKraus62€°C chardonnay might be quite painfulMar 26 14:50
PetoKrausit reacts quite fast, thoughMar 26 14:51
PetoKrausyou breathe on it and it whoops up to 20 almost instanteniouslyMar 26 14:51
PetoKrauswell, ok, you need two breaths, but stillMar 26 14:51
PetoKrausok, it's too cold, i better close the windowMar 26 14:53
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.250.230.17) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 14:55
PetoKrausrightMar 26 14:56
PetoKrausfreezer test proved, that it doesn't get completely blackMar 26 14:56
MinceR:)Mar 26 14:56
_Hicham_where is Roy?Mar 26 15:12
PetoKraushe was here half an hour agoMar 26 15:13
schestowitzHead of FSFE just mailed us for correction. Hmmmm... The way I remembered it, you founded FSFE and although I thought the founder was German he now lives in Switzerland. By the way, I met FSFE for dinner back in 2006 right here at Manchester. I'm a fan. :-Mar 26 15:14
*schestowitz tosses out this http://www.computerworlduk.com/tool... out of pipelineMar 26 15:18
schestowitzThe whole Red Hat-patent thing may have been exaggerated greatlyMar 26 15:18
schestowitzGlyn wrote: "The piece is dense and closely argued, drawing on Red Hat's statements down the years to support its case. The central question it tries to address is whether Red Hat is truly helping to fight software patents in Europe, or whether it simply wants the patent system reformed to something more convenient for its own purposes as a big software house, while retaining the good graces of the free software movement."Mar 26 15:18
schestowitzBut see the responses in http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t...Mar 26 15:18
schestowitzRed Hat seems to be debunking itMar 26 15:19
schestowitzBut I'm not sureMar 26 15:19
schestowitzWho is right and who is spinning?Mar 26 15:19
ushimitsudokiIf you take Red Hat at their word - and I see no reason not to so far - they have a very reasonable stance: http://www.redhat.com/legal/pate...Mar 26 15:20
ushimitsudokiI'm sure Novell / MS / other trolls would love to smear Red Hat's reputationMar 26 15:20
schestowitzYes, but would Digital Majority approve?Mar 26 15:21
schestowitzAlso, there info there suggesting that the only ones trolling might be Red Hat rivals like imatrix.Mar 26 15:21
ushimitsudokiI don't know Digital Majority, so I can't speak to that end of it - are you familiar enough with them to judge their credibility and bias?Mar 26 15:22
schestowitzzoobab01: calls it a trollMar 26 15:27
schestowitzBut is he talking about Red Hat or the OP?Mar 26 15:27
*Omar87 (n=omar@86.108.16.212) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 15:28
Omar87Hi there?Mar 26 15:28
schestowitzHi, Omar87 Mar 26 15:29
schestowitzCould you do me a favour and read a post with me to find typos?Mar 26 15:29
Omar87schestowitz: Well, hello Roy! How's it goin'?Mar 26 15:29
Omar87Sure.Mar 26 15:29
schestowitzOmar87: it's good, thanks.Mar 26 15:29
Omar87got a link?Mar 26 15:29
schestowitzOmar87: http://boycottnovell.com/20...Mar 26 15:29
schestowitzOops. I made a bad slug. No big deal ("mcirosoft")Mar 26 15:30
*Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 26 15:31
PetoKrausoh womenMar 26 15:35
PetoKrauscan't install a pdfcreatorMar 26 15:35
PetoKrausGAHMar 26 15:35
PetoKrausi mean, it's 2009, why is it hard to generate consistent documents which print the same output anywhere with using MS tools?Mar 26 15:36
*mib_9gyotn (i=52172ec6@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-467891dff4c1e643) has joined #boycottnovellMar 26 15:36
MinceRbecause they're MS toolsMar 26 15:36
MinceR(m-stools)Mar 26 15:36
*mib_9gyotn has quit (Client Quit)Mar 26 15:37
schestowitzBallmer throws emMar 26 15:43
MinceRi meant it in the 'feces' sense :>Mar 26 15:45
schestowitzThis could prop up GNU/Linux gaming: Onlive remote gaming isn't new  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n... >Mar 26 16:12
schestowitzIt's not new, it's Windows-only for now, and I think it DOA TBHMar 26 16:13
schestowitzFor MinceR this would be a *sigh*er Apple now less reliable than cheap Chinese computers  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new... >Mar 26 16:14
MinceR:)Mar 26 16:14
schestowitzTell this to balzac and balrogMar 26 16:14
schestowitzThe illusion (party line) that Apple had good hardwareMar 26 16:14
_Hicham_there is no good hardwareMar 26 16:15
_Hicham_everything is from south east asiaMar 26 16:15
_Hicham_but asus is know to make good motherboardsMar 26 16:15
schestowitzIf Microsoft pressures Windows users to pay, it'll drive them away... http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...Mar 26 16:15
trmanco_Hicham_, Asus is rock solid AFAIKMar 26 16:16
trmancoat least mine isMar 26 16:16
_Hicham_no one pays for Windows in MoroccoMar 26 16:16
_Hicham_trmanco : I have an Asus LaptopMar 26 16:16
trmancoI have a moboMar 26 16:16
_Hicham_Roy : Who uses Microsoft Products apart Windows?Mar 26 16:17
trmancoMicrosoftMar 26 16:18
_Hicham_people seems to use Windows just for driversMar 26 16:18
trmancoWindows sucks on driversMar 26 16:18
_Hicham_it is at least supported by vendorsMar 26 16:18
trmanco3rd parties have to make drivers for itMar 26 16:18
_Hicham_that is what I saidMar 26 16:18
trmancoI would just love to see if it wasn'tMar 26 16:18
schestowitzDo the Secret Bush Memos Amount to Treason? Top Constitutional Scholar Says Yes < http://www.alternet.org/rights/133273/... >Mar 26 16:18
trmanco_Hicham_, I was writing, you were fasterMar 26 16:19
_Hicham_the Linux perspective must be appealing to vendorsMar 26 16:19
trmancobrbMar 26 16:19
_Hicham_but the problem is open sourcing the drivers againMar 26 16:20
_Hicham_no big hardware vendors would like to open source its driversMar 26 16:21
_Hicham_Kaspersky Internet Security is getting tougher and tougher to crackMar 26 16:22
_Hicham_it blacklist all of the popular keys in the InternetMar 26 16:22
MinceRwow...asus is reliable now?Mar 26 16:26
_Hicham_MinceR : do u doubt?Mar 26 16:27
MinceRi doMar 26 16:28
MinceRafaik it didn't have such a reputationMar 26 16:28
_Hicham_it is the first in the motherboards market for more than a decadeMar 26 16:29
_Hicham_Plus, it is the first to see the future in netbooksMar 26 16:29
schestowitzasus used to be crapMar 26 16:33
schestowitzI remembered their hardware going AWOLMar 26 16:33
schestowitzBut that was around 2002Mar 26 16:33
_Hicham_what kind of hardware?Mar 26 16:33
schestowitzlaptoMar 26 16:33
_Hicham_on this I agreeMar 26 16:34
_Hicham_but it was the startMar 26 16:34
schestowitzLies, damn lies, and fun graphs to watch: http://linuxsoftwareblog.com/blog/?p=115Mar 26 16:34
_Hicham_I am talking about motherboardsMar 26 16:34
schestowitzYes, but overal..Mar 26 16:35
_Hicham_why do u think these graphs are lies?Mar 26 16:35
_Hicham_the search keyword "ubuntu" is widely usedMar 26 16:36
_Hicham_and it is clearMar 26 16:36
_Hicham_Ubuntu is the most known Linux DistroMar 26 16:37
_Hicham_followed by fedoraMar 26 16:37
_Hicham_then OpenSuseMar 26 16:37
_Hicham_sometimes OpenSuse is second since it more user friendly than fedoraMar 26 16:37
_Hicham_with its YastMar 26 16:38
schestowitzI didn't say it was a lieMar 26 16:38
schestowitzBut it just don't say what people sometimes want it toMar 26 16:38
schestowitzMicrosoft is totally out of *touch* with market needs in downturn (MSBBC ad): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/t...Mar 26 16:39
schestowitzWii (Nintendo) is claimed to have sold 50 million units now. PS2 was about 120 million. Microsoft and Sony lose $billions.Mar 26 16:41
schestowitztwitter doesn't process search queries. Must be server loadMar 26 16:47
trmancoschestowitz, twitter has it's own search engineMar 26 16:55
trmancohttp://search.twitter.com/Mar 26 16:55
schestowitzFrom an E-mail I got this morning (close to MS): "The best I can say for Charles is that no one knew what Bill Gates would become when Microsoft was just starting.  Actually, some people knew, Gates was a mean selfish SOB when he was a teenager, based on what I've heard."Mar 26 16:57
trmanco"Gates was a mean selfish SOB when he was a teenager" he is more than just thatMar 26 16:58
schestowitzPivotal ruling expected next week in lawsuit over Windows Vista < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/P... >Mar 26 16:58
schestowitztrmanco: yes, but that's heard from people close to himMar 26 16:59
schestowitzOther stories I read from Joel Spolsky and others.Mar 26 16:59
schestowitzMoody, crabby person... but he's 'buying' pressMar 26 16:59
schestowitzMS 'damage control' for looting the public:  Public officials defend stimulus money for 'Bridge to Microsoft' < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft... >Mar 26 16:59
schestowitzThose who sell GNU/Linux go up: http://blogs.computerworld.com/how_to_make... (How to make a half-a-billion bucks with Linux)Mar 26 17:00
schestowitzWikileaks mentioned us: http://twitter.com/wikileaks/sta...Mar 26 17:04
trmancoschestowitz, it's good to have a Twitter account :-PMar 26 17:06
schestowitzDoes no harmMar 26 17:06
trmancothey have a nice BG btwMar 26 17:06
schestowitzCant' change my bg imageMar 26 17:06
schestowitzBeat me to itMar 26 17:06
trmancotwitter slow as hell right nowMar 26 17:07
schestowitzThere are errors tooMar 26 17:07
trmanco...Mar 26 17:08
schestowitzIndian PC Market Down More Than 20 Percent < http://www.pcworld.com/article/161991/ind... >Mar 26 17:10
trmancomy BG image is my terminalMar 26 17:10
schestowitzRed Hat (RHT) NewsBite - RHT Rises on Q4 Profit < http://www.marketintelligencecen... >Mar 26 17:10
schestowitztrmanco: how do you upload an image?Mar 26 17:11
schestowitzI don't have an option. I tried Firefox tooMar 26 17:11
trmancosomewhere in the theme settingsMar 26 17:11
schestowitzThey give 10 optionsMar 26 17:11
trmancoschestowitz, https://twitter.com/account/pro...Mar 26 17:11
schestowitzAnd it gives errorMar 26 17:11
trmancochange background imageMar 26 17:11
trmancowell, if it gives an error it's now your faultMar 26 17:12
schestowitzGrowing painsMar 26 17:12
schestowitzit seems like people move to m-blogging from blogs and things like Digg. I'm not sure.Mar 26 17:12
trmancoDigg is getting slow tooMar 26 17:13
trmancomust be the economic crisisMar 26 17:13
trmancono money to buy new servers :-PMar 26 17:13
schestowitzLots of good news for RHt todayMar 26 17:14
schestowitztrmanco: Digg works badlyMar 26 17:14
schestowitzI sometimes open the same URL 5 time to ensure the page is loadedMar 26 17:14
schestowitzBecause I have many friends it take loads of CPUMar 26 17:14
schestowitzPages used to take like 15 seconds to open (Each!)Mar 26 17:14
trmancoI've heard they are making a change to a new DCMar 26 17:14
schestowitzNow they time out sometimesMar 26 17:15
schestowitztrmanco: well, they might as well.Mar 26 17:15
schestowitzThey lose usersMar 26 17:15
schestowitzThose whose accounts devours many queriesMar 26 17:15
trmancoyeah, I've used Digg more beforeMar 26 17:15
schestowitzAh!Mar 26 17:15
schestowitzStupid TwitterMar 26 17:15
schestowitzJavaScriptMar 26 17:15
schestowitzThat's why I couldn't uploadMar 26 17:15
trmancoyeah, and lots of itMar 26 17:15
schestowitzI wonder how much it 'costs' to have AdBlock and NoScriptMar 26 17:17
schestowitzSometimes they can take up time and support when trying to realise why something does not workMar 26 17:17
schestowitzmy new twitter bg is the mandriva desktopMar 26 17:18
*trmanco looksMar 26 17:19
trmancohehe :-PMar 26 17:20
_Hicham_Roy loves MandrivaMar 26 17:21
trmancoI've never tried itMar 26 17:22
_Hicham_what do u use trmanco?Mar 26 17:22
trmancoUbuntuMar 26 17:22
trmancoNo, I'm not really a newbieMar 26 17:22
trmancoif that is what you're thinkingMar 26 17:23
_Hicham_Sorry, your platform is not supported.Mar 26 17:23
trmanco!Mar 26 17:23
_Hicham_that is what i got from adobe shockwaveMar 26 17:23
trmancowhere?Mar 26 17:23
*schestowitz has ubuntu on 3 machinesMar 26 17:24
_Hicham_http://get.adobe.com/shockwave/Mar 26 17:24
_Hicham_no shockwave on LinuxMar 26 17:24
_Hicham_any idea?Mar 26 17:24
trmanco_Hicham_, yeah, no shockwaveMar 26 17:24
_Hicham_fucking adobe with its fucking techMar 26 17:25
_Hicham_one of the problems is the evil MFCMar 26 17:25
schestowitzzoobab01: Meilensteine: Gewonnener Kampf gegen Softwarepatente http://diepresse.com/home/politik/e...Mar 26 17:25
_Hicham_it shouldn't be used on large projectsMar 26 17:25
schestowitzsw patents heating up in the EUMar 26 17:26
schestowitz_Hicham_: what are the laws in Morocco re: sw patents?Mar 26 17:26
_Hicham_Morocco is fineMar 26 17:27
_Hicham_piracy is everywhereMar 26 17:27
_Hicham_almost no one pays a dime to MSMar 26 17:27
_Hicham_I think I am the only one with some ethics concerning softwareMar 26 17:28
_Hicham_everyone buys pirated softwareMar 26 17:28
_Hicham_I feel humiliated when I have to boot into WindowsMar 26 17:28
_Hicham_even Professors gave us pirated softwareMar 26 17:28
schestowitzCentral Asia's cold war over heat < http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archiv... >Mar 26 17:29
schestowitz_Hicham_: you mean counterfeiting, not piracyMar 26 17:29
-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi again. One of our hubs had connectivity issues causing some servers and users to be unable to connect to the network, resulting in a rather noisy set of splits. The issue has been resolved now and we believe there should be no further interruptions. Thanks!Mar 26 17:29
schestowitz_Hicham_: MS makes money in very few countriesMar 26 17:29
schestowitzThe rest it just uses for network effectMar 26 17:29
schestowitz_Hicham_: that's OK if professors do that. Microsoft is endorsing it where it /NEEDS/ counterfeiting. It admits this publicly.Mar 26 17:30
schestowitzIf you might move elsewhere, they'll give it awayMar 26 17:30
schestowitzSearch BN for "under no circumstance lose to Linux"Mar 26 17:30
schestowitzOrlando Ayala anti-Linux bullyMar 26 17:31
schestowitzGoogle Docs Gets a Drawing Program < http://blogoscoped.com/archiv... >. Ballmer's FUD is running thin.Mar 26 17:31


Recent Techrights' Posts

SoylentNews Grows Up, Registers as a Business, Site Traffic Reportedly Grows
More people realise that social control media may in fact be a passing fad
 
Engadget is Still a Spamfarm, It's Just an Amazon Catalogue (SPAM/SEO), a Sea of Junk Disguised as "Articles" With Few 'Fillers' (Real Articles) in Between
Engadget writes for bots now, not for humans
Richard Stallman's Talks in Switzerland This Week
We need to put an end to 'cancer culture'; it's trying to kill people and it is even swatting people
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, March 28, 2024
IRC logs for Thursday, March 28, 2024
[Meme] EPO's New Ways of Working (NWoW), a.k.a. You Don't Even Get a Desk at Work and Cannot be Near Known Colleagues
Seems more like union-busting (divide and rule)
Hiding Microsoft's Culpability in Security Breaches and Other Major Blunders (in the United Kingdom, This May Mean You Can't Get Food)
Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) is vast
Giving back to the community
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 28/03/2024: Sega, Nintendo, and Bell Layoffs
Links for the day
Open letter to the ACM regarding Codes of Conduct impersonating the Code of Ethics
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
With 9 Mentions of Azure In Its Latest Blog Post, Canonical is Again Promoting Microsoft and Intel Vendor Lock-in, Surveillance, Back Doors, Considerable Power Waste, and Defects That Cannot be Fixed
Microsoft did not even have to buy Canonical (for Canonical to act like it happened)
Links 28/03/2024: GAFAM Replacing Full-Time Workers With Interns Now
Links for the day
Consent & Debian's illegitimate constitution
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
The Time Our Server Host Died in a Car Accident
If Debian has internal problems, then they need to be illuminated and then tackled, at the very least in order to ensure we do not end up with "Deadian"
China's New 'IT' Rules Are a Massive Headache for Microsoft
On the issue of China we're neutral except when it comes to human rights issues
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, March 27, 2024
IRC logs for Wednesday, March 27, 2024
WeMakeFedora.org: harassment decision, victory for volunteers and Fedora Foundations
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 27/03/2024: Terrorism Grows in Africa, Unemployment in Finland Rose Sharply in a Year, Chinese Aggression Escalates
Links for the day
Links 27/03/2024: Ericsson and Tencent Layoffs
Links for the day
Amid Online Reports of XBox Sales Collapsing, Mass Layoffs in More Teams, and Windows Making Things Worse (Admission of Losses, Rumours About XBox Canceled as a Hardware Unit)...
Windows has loads of issues, also as a gaming platform
Links 27/03/2024: BBC Resorts to CG Cruft, Akamai Blocking Blunders in Piracy Shield
Links for the day
Android Approaches 90% of the Operating Systems Market in Chad (Windows Down From 99.5% 15 Years Ago to Just 2.5% Right Now)
Windows is down to about 2% on the Web-connected client side as measured by statCounter
Sainsbury's: Let Them Eat Yoghurts (and Microsoft Downtimes When They Need Proper Food)
a social control media 'scandal' this week
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, March 26, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, March 26, 2024
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
Windows/Client at Microsoft Falling Sharply (Well Over 10% Decline Every Quarter), So For His Next Trick the Ponzi in Chief Merges Units, Spices Everything Up With "AI"
Hiding the steep decline of Windows/Client at Microsoft?
Free technology in housing and construction
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
We Need Open Standards With Free Software Implementations, Not "Interoperability" Alone
Sadly we're confronting misguided managers and a bunch of clowns trying to herd us all - sometimes without consent - into "clown computing"
Microsoft's Collapse in the Web Server Space Continued This Month
Microsoft is the "2%", just like Windows in some countries