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03.28.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 27th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:16 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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schestowitz The server is overloaded again. Mar 27 08:16
trmanco wispygalaxy might come here today Mar 27 08:17
trmanco schestowitz, what server? Mar 27 08:17
Omar871 Hey all. Mar 27 08:17
schestowitz BN. This leads to problem when commenting for example Mar 27 08:18
schestowitz I hope the host does not complain Mar 27 08:18
trmanco hello Mar 27 08:19
schestowitz The comment system does not work well because of server load Mar 27 08:43
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schestowitz zoobab01: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=… Mar 27 09:17
schestowitz ping zer0c00l Mar 27 09:29
zer0c00l schestowitz:64 bytes from zer0c00l: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.219 ms Mar 27 09:32
zer0c00l :) Mar 27 09:32
schestowitz ACK Mar 27 09:32
schestowitz Someone who’s an MSP has just commented in BN Mar 27 09:33
zer0c00l oh Mar 27 09:33
zer0c00l ok Mar 27 09:33
zer0c00l let me c Mar 27 09:33
schestowitz But also, I want to find which shills in India lobby for software patents Mar 27 09:33
schestowitz The best way to counter it is to find out and point out the cronies Mar 27 09:33
zer0c00l yes Mar 27 09:33
schestowitz MSPs live in illusions, like MS employees Mar 27 09:34
zer0c00l :D Mar 27 09:34
zer0c00l yes Mar 27 09:34
zer0c00l Microoosoofft Student paartneeer Mar 27 09:35
schestowitz There is a big push from MS right now to legalise sw patents Mar 27 09:37
schestowitz They attack TomTOm with embargo threats Mar 27 09:37
schestowitz ITC Mar 27 09:37
schestowitz And in India too AFAIK Mar 27 09:37
schestowitz The draft manual. Mar 27 09:37
schestowitz zoobab01 would know more Mar 27 09:37
schestowitz So we need to blog the issue more… I’ll post an RMS video later Mar 27 09:37
schestowitz MSPs are too brainwashed and immersed for me to both replying to. They are also greedy. Mar 27 09:38
zer0c00l schestowitz: are you going to reply for that comment? Mar 27 09:38
zer0c00l yes Mar 27 09:38
schestowitz They would let Indian  burn if they made a buck Mar 27 09:39
zer0c00l bunch of morons who promotes crappy technology Mar 27 09:39
schestowitz *India Mar 27 09:39
schestowitz zer0c00l: no, I won’t reply Mar 27 09:39
zer0c00l do you want me to ? Mar 27 09:39
schestowitz I tried before when some MS lackeys from Kerala fought back with BS Mar 27 09:39
schestowitz zer0c00l: yes, please Mar 27 09:39
schestowitz Tell them about MS writing letters on behalf of dead people Mar 27 09:40
zer0c00l let me start a flame war :D Mar 27 09:40
zer0c00l yes Mar 27 09:40
zer0c00l Dead people Mar 27 09:40
schestowitz Those kids don’t know what Microsoft is *really( doing Mar 27 09:40
zer0c00l ? Mar 27 09:40
schestowitz Microsoft thrives in innocence and ignorance Mar 27 09:40
schestowitz Imposed by PR Mar 27 09:40
schestowitz zer0c00l: you didn’t know? Mar 27 09:40
zer0c00l yes Mar 27 09:40
schestowitz Search BN for “dead people” Mar 27 09:40
schestowitz You have catching up to do. ;-) Mar 27 09:40
zer0c00l yes Mar 27 09:41
zer0c00l ;) Mar 27 09:41
zer0c00l http://boycottnovell.com/200… ? Mar 27 09:42
zer0c00l schestowitz: i posted BN link in a blog he came here from there http://gracelyne.wordpress.com/2009/0… Mar 27 09:46
MinceR geekings Mar 27 09:47
schestowitz zer0c00l: there are more posts on that incident Mar 27 09:49
zer0c00l oh Mar 27 09:50
zer0c00l i just commented back at that girl Mar 27 09:51
zer0c00l @gracelyne Mar 27 09:51
zer0c00l >>Lets appreciate technolgy!Shall we ? Mar 27 09:51
zer0c00l No, Lets appreciate GOOD technology. Mar 27 09:51
zer0c00l you are appreciating technology from a software molester. Mar 27 09:51
zer0c00l :D Mar 27 09:51
schestowitz Heh. Mar 27 09:54
zer0c00l schestowitz: preparing comment Mar 27 09:55
zer0c00l :) Mar 27 09:55
schestowitz Thanks. Mar 27 09:55
zer0c00l seems like a seminar Mar 27 09:57
zer0c00l will post it tonight Mar 27 09:57
zer0c00l later Mar 27 09:58
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oiaohm http://arstechnica.com/open-source/…  <<Some of googles project names take the cake. Mar 27 10:25
amarsh04 “bakery thief”? (-: Mar 27 10:29
schestowitz Google gives Python a kick in the pants. Mar 27 10:37
oiaohm Over due kick. Mar 27 10:38
schestowitz trmanco: where are you going for 10 days? Mar 27 10:38
MinceR lol, nice Mar 27 10:39
trmanco schestowitz, Spain Mar 27 10:39
schestowitz oiaohm: MS tried to contain (EEE) python Mar 27 10:39
schestowitz Sun tris too… JPython and hires Mar 27 10:39
MinceR isn’t that Jython? Mar 27 10:39
oiaohm Different here llvm has the direct means to make native code. Mar 27 10:40
schestowitz MinceR: yes Mar 27 10:40
oiaohm Python has really been the last hold out major bytecode language. Mar 27 10:41
oiaohm Should get intresting python vs ruby. Mar 27 10:42
amarsh04 the first ruby program I installed on my pc was “rubyripper” – a google-hosted project. For something written in a language developed by a Japanese person, I was surprised that it crashed on some Japanese text in the title of the album I was trying to rip Mar 27 10:46
trmanco hehe, posting on ping.fm works really well Mar 27 10:51
*trmanco goes back to packing Mar 27 10:51
schestowitz trmanco: where do you post to. identica and twitter? Mar 27 11:00
trmanco schestowitz, I post from Gwibber… Mar 27 11:01
trmanco I was just trying out ping.fm on a mobile connection to see if it works Mar 27 11:01
trmanco http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/0… Mar 27 11:05
trmanco I can get that computer for -$150 Mar 27 11:06
trmanco Mar 27 11:06
trmanco stupid ad Mar 27 11:06
trmanco troll -> http://lifehacker.com/5180833/firs… Mar 27 11:10
schestowitz “windows xp takes 15 sec.” Mar 27 11:11
schestowitz To return from hibernation? :-) Mar 27 11:12
oiaohm You can get XP started in 10 flat. Mar 27 11:12
oiaohm But that is anti-virus free and basically gutted. Mar 27 11:13
trmanco oiaohm, yes you can… after you’ve finished installing it Mar 27 11:14
trmanco Mar 27 11:15
oiaohm No nlite custom disk. Mar 27 11:15
trmanco after you install the 300 pending updates it starts to get slower Mar 27 11:15
oiaohm With a much as you can cut out. Mar 27 11:15
oiaohm Including checking for updates. Mar 27 11:15
schestowitz On a 2.2 GHx Celeron???/ Mar 27 11:15
trmanco then you install driver (Ah drivers) and a antivirus and then it gets even slower Mar 27 11:16
schestowitz *1.2 GHz Mar 27 11:16
trmanco schestowitz, yes it might… hard to believe though Mar 27 11:16
schestowitz I don’t buy it Mar 27 11:16
oiaohm That is double what I got 10 secs on. Mar 27 11:16
oiaohm 600 mhz completely gutted XP Mar 27 11:16
oiaohm 10 seconds is doable. Mar 27 11:17
oiaohm Really when the install is only 50 megs yes there was not much of XP left Mar 27 11:17
trmanco once you start using the registry and fraging both FS and registry, it starts to get sluggish Mar 27 11:18
trmanco and it starts to crash Mar 27 11:18
oiaohm There is a third cause of XP getting slower. Mar 27 11:18
oiaohm That I have not found. Mar 27 11:18
trmanco oiaohm, what’s that Mar 27 11:18
trmanco ah, it’s random then? Mar 27 11:19
oiaohm You can defrag and clean the registry. Mar 27 11:19
trmanco oiaohm, I know Mar 27 11:19
oiaohm And the performance does not come back. Mar 27 11:19
trmanco true Mar 27 11:19
oiaohm I suspect windows updates. Mar 27 11:19
trmanco yeah, I’ve stated that Mar 27 11:19
oiaohm I have even used old copied of the registry. Mar 27 11:19
trmanco <trmanco> after you install the 300 pending updates it starts to get slower Mar 27 11:19
oiaohm It also could be sxs Mar 27 11:19
oiaohm Basically there is something else slowing windows down. Mar 27 11:20
trmanco crap kernel Mar 27 11:20
oiaohm After reboots nop. Mar 27 11:20
trmanco http://www.itnews.com.au/News/99681,mic… Mar 27 11:20
oiaohm The thing that gets me the slow down always lines up with a NEW MS OS getting released. Mar 27 11:21
oiaohm Ie bigger slow down at those times than anyother time. Mar 27 11:21
trmanco I just laugh at Windows when I leave it all night doing something and then the other day I’m thrown a “Windows had a critical error” Windows… all work lost Mar 27 11:22
trmanco pathetic Mar 27 11:22
Eruaran Makes you wonder Mar 27 11:22
Eruaran How long will people put up with it Mar 27 11:22
schestowitz I just assume Linux will work the following day Mar 27 11:23
schestowitz I had it run many experiments over night Mar 27 11:23
oiaohm LOL the document is not secret about the cloud Mar 27 11:23
schestowitz Windows can hardly do large backups reliably Mar 27 11:23
schestowitz You have to redo Mar 27 11:23
trmanco 1 year XP install acting like this…  If I could, I would tell BillyG to stick the instalation CD and a external hard drive with the source code up it’s ass Mar 27 11:23
oiaohm Its a joint pack to unified standards including non patent attack. Mar 27 11:23
oiaohm Against all members and there customers and supporting developers. Mar 27 11:23
trmanco Eruaran, people won’t admit that Mar 27 11:23
oiaohm MS signs that there cases against Linux goes. Mar 27 11:24
trmanco if Windows crashes they just ignore it, at least in my experience Mar 27 11:24
schestowitz industry-expresses-outrage-at-secret-microsoft-apis.aspx Mar 27 11:24
Eruaran Wont admit what ? That Windows is, and always has been, crap ? Mar 27 11:24
trmanco Eruaran, yes, and it never crashes for them Mar 27 11:24
oiaohm Linux has not been much better. Mar 27 11:24
oiaohm for desktop usage. Mar 27 11:24
trmanco they like BSoD, it’s like a feature Mar 27 11:24
oiaohm X11 splat Mar 27 11:24
oiaohm Vs BSoD Mar 27 11:24
trmanco splat? Mar 27 11:24
Eruaran ? Mar 27 11:25
oiaohm X11 crashes cutting off video access. Mar 27 11:25
oiaohm So the screen just freases. Mar 27 11:25
oiaohm BSoD is kinda nicer. Mar 27 11:25
Eruaran The only time I’ve had trouble with Linux is if I’m deliberately using bleeding edge alpha stuff Mar 27 11:25
trmanco yeah I had those problems with blog shit drivers Mar 27 11:25
trmanco blob* Mar 27 11:25
oiaohm KMS in Linux will give Linux like a BSoD Mar 27 11:26
oiaohm So a Nvidia/other closed source splat will be known straight up. Mar 27 11:26
oiaohm That way people can go attack the party responisable. Mar 27 11:26
trmanco Not long ago I was using the Ati proprietary driver, It would crash Xorg when using Compiz, dunno why, and I also had double Xorg processes each eating up 100 MB ram Mar 27 11:26
oiaohm MS BSoD being cryptic makes them basicallly useless. Mar 27 11:26
oiaohm That is to be expected I can tell you what was going on trmanco Mar 27 11:27
trmanco now, Xorg never has crashed after that, and I have only one Xorg process eating up 80 mg ram Mar 27 11:27
oiaohm Ati propriertary driver was a DRI 1 design. Mar 27 11:27
trmanco oiaohm, what was it? Mar 27 11:27
oiaohm So whole stack of over layours had to be used to make Compiz work. Mar 27 11:28
oiaohm Ie huge ram usage. Mar 27 11:28
trmanco hmm Mar 27 11:28
oiaohm On top of that DRI 1 drivers have a race condition flaw that Compiz exposes. Mar 27 11:28
oiaohm So yep dead man walking in more than one. Mar 27 11:29
trmanco the open source driver works fine for me Mar 27 11:29
oiaohm Run the DRI 1 driver long enough even the open source one with compiz it will crash. Mar 27 11:29
trmanco I’ll bet it won’t Mar 27 11:30
oiaohm DRI 2 is required to remove the race condition flaw. Mar 27 11:30
oiaohm I have already had this bet many times over with many people in winehq. Mar 27 11:30
oiaohm So far they have all lost. Mar 27 11:30
oiaohm DRI 1 is being replaced because there is a non repairable flaw in its design that causes the race condition. Mar 27 11:31
oiaohm It was only designed for 1 opengl application at a time. Mar 27 11:31
oiaohm Yep opps Mar 27 11:31
oiaohm Compiz + another program opengl program you have 2 opengl programs so causing the race conditions of two applications trying to use only one interface on offer. Mar 27 11:32
trmanco oiaohm, ah, that is what causes the flickering right? Mar 27 11:32
trmanco when using some other program with opengl Mar 27 11:33
oiaohm Yep you will 100 percent for sure go splat. Mar 27 11:33
oiaohm That flickering is like the warning sign. Mar 27 11:33
trmanco wine does that when starting, but it never crashed Mar 27 11:33
trmanco Xorg Mar 27 11:33
oiaohm Right set of gpu instructions cut half way and half another sent splat. Mar 27 11:34
oiaohm It will happen. Mar 27 11:34
trmanco só, I just turn off compiz and everthing works right again Mar 27 11:34
oiaohm You just have been lucky that is all trmanco Mar 27 11:34
oiaohm That is the luck of race conditions. Mar 27 11:34
trmanco Ah, ok :-P Mar 27 11:34
oiaohm And of course luck runs out. Mar 27 11:34
trmanco maybe I have skynet controlling my linux box :-P Mar 27 11:35
oiaohm When dri 2 drivers are stable trmanco upgrade. Mar 27 11:35
oiaohm Then you can have compiz Mar 27 11:35
oiaohm Until then its a risk. Mar 27 11:35
trmanco I’ll have to wait Mar 27 11:35
trmanco how is the status of DRI2 on the radeon driver? I can’t seem to find it Mar 27 11:36
oiaohm Record so far is 8 months before the race condition caught up to the a person. Mar 27 11:36
oiaohm DRI2 parts for radeons are not kernel merged yet. Mar 27 11:36
trmanco ok… Mar 27 11:36
oiaohm Hopefully 2.6.30 Mar 27 11:36
*trmanco is waiting Mar 27 11:36
oiaohm Then for 3d accleration galluim3d is required Mar 27 11:37
oiaohm So before end of year some time. Mar 27 11:37
trmanco GEM is also cool Mar 27 11:37
oiaohm GEM is part of it. Mar 27 11:37
trmanco ah ok Mar 27 11:37
Eruaran I haven’t used compiz for a few weeks now Mar 27 11:37
oiaohm GEM is the bit that manages GPU memory so applications don’t step on each other toes. Mar 27 11:37
oiaohm So preventing the race condition. Mar 27 11:38
MinceR GEM keeps making me think of the older GEM Mar 27 11:38
Eruaran heh Mar 27 11:39
Eruaran same here Mar 27 11:39
trmanco Ruby gem? Mar 27 11:39
Eruaran The original GEM Mar 27 11:39
Eruaran Go back to the 80′s Mar 27 11:39
trmanco :O Mar 27 11:40
oiaohm http://gem.shaneland.co.uk/  << You are thinking of this that is Open source these days. Mar 27 11:40
MinceR wow, colors Mar 27 11:41
trmanco ah, cool Mar 27 11:41
oiaohm Yes its funny that the source code and sdk of gem takes 44 meg archive. Mar 27 11:41
MinceR i’ve only ever seen it on Atari ST Mar 27 11:42
MinceR where it was black, white and green only in the background Mar 27 11:42
oiaohm Might get kinda insane one day and port opengem to Linux framebuffer. Mar 27 11:42
MinceR http://graphjam.com/2009/03/12/s… Mar 27 11:46
schestowitz Check out my new CSS changes: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/20/m… Mar 27 11:54
schestowitz Mind the quote on the left and the one at the bottom (picture+borders) Mar 27 11:54
schestowitz Oh, might have to  flush cache (CSS is caches usually) Mar 27 11:56
schestowitz Reload the CSS first: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-conten… Mar 27 11:56
Eruaran BN is only thing I can get to work with my RSSNOW widget Mar 27 12:02
*Eruaran kicks widget Mar 27 12:02
Eruaran Apparently Plymouth only works on Intel hardware, is this true ? Mar 27 12:04
MinceR iirc it needs KMS, which currently only works on intel gpu-s Mar 27 12:05
Eruaran oh i c Mar 27 12:11
oiaohm Other drivers are coming Eruaran Mar 27 12:16
oiaohm So intel hardware for now VIA and ATI hardware in time Mar 27 12:16
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trmanco cool, you changed the quote block Mar 27 12:20
Eruaran|alphates Firefox is retarded Mar 27 12:23
*Eruaran|alphates is now known as Eruaran Mar 27 12:23
trmanco ? Mar 27 12:23
trmanco ctrl+R Mar 27 12:23
Eruaran I downloaded an image Mar 27 12:24
Eruaran The full resolution image has been downloaded Mar 27 12:24
Eruaran But when I want to save the image Mar 27 12:24
Eruaran Firefox downloads the whole thing all over again Mar 27 12:24
Eruaran Retarded Mar 27 12:25
Eruaran Hence, I use Konqueror for downloading wallpapers from Interfacelift Mar 27 12:26
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trmanco ah ok Mar 27 13:00
trmanco Since when does _Microsoft make proper anti-crack software? -> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne… Mar 27 13:05
trmanco WGA has always failed Mar 27 13:05
MinceR there’s no such thing as proper DRM Mar 27 13:07
trmanco you call that DRM? Mar 27 13:10
trmanco I call it shit software Mar 27 13:10
oiaohm There is such thing as a Proper DRM. Mar 27 13:11
trmanco microsoft could shut down the light of all pirated Windows if it wanted too Mar 27 13:11
trmanco lights* Mar 27 13:11
oiaohm Proper DRM is a true prick. Mar 27 13:11
oiaohm Its embeded inside the processing units. Mar 27 13:11
oiaohm So nothing transfered out side the processing unit is in a unencrypted state. Mar 27 13:12
oiaohm Its really sentivie to any form of hardware failure. Mar 27 13:12
MinceR and how are you going to view that content? :> Mar 27 13:27
oiaohm Normally high secuirty transfer routers. Mar 27 13:27
oiaohm So you are not ment to view the data at that location MinceR Mar 27 13:28
MinceR video/audio will still be converted to analog data, otherwise you won’t be able to see/hear anything Mar 27 13:28
oiaohm Transfer routers. Mar 27 13:28
oiaohm You try moniting at there location you have jack. Mar 27 13:28
oiaohm You have to get to a client at 1 end to decode. Mar 27 13:28
MinceR and the client decodes, and then you get the unencrypted stuff Mar 27 13:29
MinceR with hw hacking you can get it in digital form Mar 27 13:29
MinceR also, if the processing units aren’t tamperproof, you can get at the key anyway Mar 27 13:29
oiaohm transfer routers are more of a prick than that. Mar 27 13:30
MinceR if you won’t define “transfer router”, i won’t listen to you anymore. :> Mar 27 13:30
oiaohm Yes in the processor is a embeded key for start up. Mar 27 13:31
oiaohm high secuirty transfer rounters recieve data encrypted.  Can apply alteration encryption to data packet.  Ie a key that translated from one encrypted patern to another without decycrypting. Mar 27 13:34
oiaohm Basically you have a box with basically no exposed plan texted MinceR Mar 27 13:34
oiaohm Taking it off line also can equal it unable to reconnect. Mar 27 13:35
oiaohm MinceR: pricks of things.  Makes VPN look friendly. Mar 27 13:35
MinceR sounds like something that will only work with linear encryption algorithms Mar 27 13:36
MinceR (otherwise there aren’t a lot of operations you can do on encrypted data without decrypting) Mar 27 13:36
MinceR then again, with a key stream it might even work Mar 27 13:37
schestowitz trmanco: thanks, seen the WGA thing. Will write about it later Mar 27 13:38
trmanco ok Mar 27 13:38
schestowitz I’m doing a long article now Mar 27 13:38
schestowitz THat’s why I’m quiet in IRC Mar 27 13:38
oiaohm Translation patterns are evil on really complex compressions.  Its a realy nasty set of double maths to create them.  Ie decypt formual put with encrypt forumul with both keys embed then optmised into a conversion forumal. Mar 27 13:39
oiaohm If done right at no point does the data ever return to true plaintext. Mar 27 13:40
oiaohm Its the only true DRM I know that works MinceR Mar 27 13:40
MinceR but then you need to generate a stream of key bits Mar 27 13:41
MinceR or use weak encryption Mar 27 13:41
MinceR i doubt you can do _everything_ you need with translation patterns Mar 27 13:41
oiaohm Hard part is how complex translation patterns are to make. Mar 27 13:42
MinceR also, some of your processing units _will_ need to know the secret that lets them decrypt the content Mar 27 13:42
oiaohm so there weakness is normally a slow key update cycle. Mar 27 13:42
MinceR and the user will still have them physically Mar 27 13:42
oiaohm Yes physical end points need real human secuirty. Mar 27 13:43
MinceR also, note that users aren’t terribly sensitive to quality so a tranformation that involves an analog format will still be acceptable to a lot of people Mar 27 13:43
trmanco psyb0t Mar 27 13:45
oiaohm What the transfer router is doing is DRM.  It allows particular users access to data streams and not others.  Based on how it transforms the stream. Mar 27 13:46
oiaohm When they screw up and double stack alter its not nice. Mar 27 13:46
oiaohm [send user key][transform][recieveuser key][transform][o crap what key is this] Mar 27 13:47
oiaohm There not your normal beasts MinceR Mar 27 13:52
oiaohm You know someone is getting nuts when someone asks you to repair one of those transfer routers and you read the manual in blue prints is a optional block of c4. Mar 27 13:53
MinceR in the end, you’re going to have to use a DAC to get an analog signal Mar 27 13:55
MinceR that DAC will receive unencrypted content Mar 27 13:55
schestowitz Or use a tripod Mar 27 13:55
schestowitz Capture output perfectly Mar 27 13:56
MinceR that’s far from perfect, but people have been known to seek recordings of a movie screen done with handheld cameras from a suboptimal seat Mar 27 13:56
oiaohm Note digital rights management.  The system I am talking about is normally not used on videos.  But on  documents going from location to location. Mar 27 13:58
oiaohm It reduces the numbers of keys each end has to know. Mar 27 13:59
MinceR can they take notes or photos of the screens? Mar 27 13:59
MinceR is physical security of the terminals ensured? Mar 27 13:59
oiaohm Remember I said the end points had to have real secuirty. Mar 27 13:59
oiaohm Yep physical secuirty at the termianls. Mar 27 14:00
MinceR that sounds workable. Mar 27 14:00
MinceR (though you might want to ban people with implants eventually :> ) Mar 27 14:00
oiaohm Its the only form of DRM I know that works. Mar 27 14:00
oiaohm Kinda upgrade to the next level. Mar 27 14:00
MinceR but it won’t work with most forms/uses of content. Mar 27 14:01
oiaohm What I just explained to you is what a proper working DRM looks like. Mar 27 14:02
oiaohm Not the most friendly things. Mar 27 14:02
oiaohm Most things called DRM is just a impersonation ofit. Mar 27 14:02
oiaohm Implants in theory open up a scary form. Mar 27 14:03
MinceR sounds more like proper encryption than DRM :> Mar 27 14:03
oiaohm Inload information into person mind in a way they cannot repeat it. Mar 27 14:03
oiaohm The transfer router is the DRM bit. Mar 27 14:03
oiaohm Its controlling who can access what. Mar 27 14:04
MinceR did they call this DRM before the term was used for “premium content”? Mar 27 14:04
MinceR access control can be implemented in many ways :) Mar 27 14:04
oiaohm Yes they did. Mar 27 14:04
MinceR ic Mar 27 14:04
oiaohm Media companies picked up a older term. Mar 27 14:04
oiaohm And half ass implemented it. Mar 27 14:04
oiaohm Ie cut off the end point secuirty. Mar 27 14:05
oiaohm The idea of each user having a unique decode and encode key is part of the older DRM model. Mar 27 14:05
oiaohm So if a point is breached they only get 1 key and stop sending data on that path there is no free data. Mar 27 14:06
oiaohm Its completely designed to avoid large stock piles of keys in locations that cannot be protected. Mar 27 14:06
oiaohm Where the media companies got the idea of DRM from was a fully valid MinceR Mar 27 14:08
MinceR ic Mar 27 14:08
MinceR so it’s a typical case of someone seeing someting workable and trying to copy it without understanding it Mar 27 14:08
oiaohm Yep Mar 27 14:08
MinceR that’s how we got WEP and GSM security :> Mar 27 14:08
oiaohm There is proper DRM just most people are like you have no clue what it is. Mar 27 14:09
oiaohm Until its explained. Mar 27 14:09
MinceR well now i do Mar 27 14:09
MinceR i think these two things are distinct enough to warrant different names, so i guess i’ll just call media DRM “copy protection” :> Mar 27 14:10
oiaohm The media companies are trying to get the end point protections through laws. Mar 27 14:10
oiaohm Where when used in mil and intelegance groups they have men with guys at each end. Mar 27 14:11
MinceR that would be the end of the personal computer. Mar 27 14:11
oiaohm Exactly if proper DRM ever got implemented there would be no room for a personal computer. Mar 27 14:12
oiaohm Most mobile device would not have a home either. Mar 27 14:12
MinceR it’s more than that: they’d have to forbid PCs (and mobile computers) entirely. Mar 27 14:12
MinceR if you have one, you can use it to handle media in any way you want. Mar 27 14:13
oiaohm As you can see the media companys are trying to build proper DRM. Mar 27 14:13
Balrog DRM != copy protection Mar 27 14:13
oiaohm But they really have not though through the results. Mar 27 14:13
Balrog drm is more like usage prevention Mar 27 14:13
Balrog not *copy* prevention Mar 27 14:14
MinceR any use of digital media is copying, isn’t it? :) Mar 27 14:14
Balrog was copy protection on floppy disks back in the 80′s DRM? Mar 27 14:14
oiaohm Coping is basically not preventable. Mar 27 14:14
MinceR unless it’s a stream you don’t store Mar 27 14:14
MinceR Balrog: dunno, but i think these things are fundamentally the same thing. Mar 27 14:15
Balrog no it isn’t … but if it’s trivial people will copy Mar 27 14:15
Balrog I’m not so sure about that Mar 27 14:15
Balrog the bad thing about DRM is the anti circumvention Mar 27 14:15
oiaohm the other thing about the terminals in a mil grade DRM network all storage devices remain encrypted.  Only the terminal has the keys. Mar 27 14:16
oiaohm Very much like the media DRM idea. Mar 27 14:16
oiaohm They copied. Mar 27 14:16
oiaohm You don’t use DRM if you want the data to be accessable in future either. Mar 27 14:17
schestowitz For those who don’t know: Jonathan Zuck and ACT: What is It Anyway? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/27/pr… Mar 27 14:18
Balrog well, floppy-disk copy protection is easily circumvented with the proper tools / software Mar 27 14:18
MinceR so is media DRM :> Mar 27 14:19
Balrog media DRM imposes more restrictions Mar 27 14:19
Balrog such as when you can use it, expiration, etc Mar 27 14:19
Balrog but then again, hardware copy protection is at least as nasty as media DRM Mar 27 14:19
oiaohm expiration happens in mil networks. Mar 27 14:20
Balrog (dongles) Mar 27 14:20
oiaohm key gets changed in termianl. Mar 27 14:20
oiaohm So everything on the terminal is rendered useless. Mar 27 14:20
Balrog all data? Mar 27 14:20
oiaohm All the data in that terminal Mar 27 14:20
Balrog wait … this terminal has a disk? Mar 27 14:21
oiaohm Yep. Mar 27 14:21
oiaohm Not all of them. Mar 27 14:21
oiaohm Central point ones. Mar 27 14:21
Balrog that’s not a good thing, unless the data is backed up before the key changes Mar 27 14:22
oiaohm Hopefully at other central points. Mar 27 14:22
Balrog (key changes are necessary in an encryption system; WPA does it for wifi) Mar 27 14:22
oiaohm Using these old style DRM systems you can really badly screw up. Mar 27 14:23
oiaohm Same fault that effects the old style Mil DRM systems effect modern day Media one. Mar 27 14:24
oiaohm Basically think of it as a fast way to scred the data on a terminal yet still make it look active. Mar 27 14:25
oiaohm To get around that problem holding onto decode keys was allowed.   This is where the mil systems turn almost perfectly from a software point of view into a modernday drm. Mar 27 14:27
oiaohm Take away the gun men at the terminal end and DRM fails. Mar 27 14:28
schestowitz This one pisses me off TBH: Wikileaks Sponsor Raided By German Police < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews… > Mar 27 14:33
schestowitz Troll-headline: Is open source enabling next-gen vendor lock-in? < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10… > Mar 27 14:37
schestowitz Introducing YouTube EDU! < http://www.oculture.com/2009/03/… > Mar 27 14:38
schestowitz It’s time for the UK government to move to GNU/Linux, just like France: http://www.channel4.com/news/article… Mar 27 14:45
oiaohm http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/140964,…  Great Mar 27 14:48
oiaohm Now what is the responce going to be. Mar 27 14:49
oiaohm Some people idea of helpful is stupid. Mar 27 14:49
schestowitz Sun put itself on sale? http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001… (Intel CEO says Sun was shopped around) Mar 27 14:49
oiaohm Yep Mar 27 14:49
schestowitz oiaohm: thanks Mar 27 14:49
schestowitz Good timing Mar 27 14:49
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oiaohm That the a web site is breached only gives more grounds for dracoian measures. Mar 27 14:50
schestowitz The Microsoft Shane O’neill shill is attacking Linux again (in IDG, where else?) Mar 27 14:51
schestowitz Key lie: “Microsoft Rules Netbooks Now” Mar 27 14:51
schestowitz Errr… no. Mar 27 14:51
oiaohm MS does rule the Netbooks. Mar 27 14:51
schestowitz Dell puts Linux on one in 3 machines Mar 27 14:51
schestowitz In Europe, Linux has about 40% Mar 27 14:51
oiaohm But what is the point of ruling it if you are making no profit. Mar 27 14:51
schestowitz Microsoft uses the NPD BS once again Mar 27 14:51
schestowitz They do it with XBox too Mar 27 14:51
schestowitz Use US-only sales to fake things Mar 27 14:51
schestowitz Make it seem like US=world Mar 27 14:52
oiaohm Does not matter really. Mar 27 14:52
oiaohm Ok I know you don’t like zdnet Mar 27 14:52
schestowitz They try to scare OEMs Mar 27 14:52
schestowitz Trying to tell them not to approach Linux Mar 27 14:52
oiaohm http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=4025  Just for once press the view results on these pages. Mar 27 14:53
schestowitz And they use shills like Fried, Bott, Enderle, Gralla, O’Neill… Mar 27 14:53
oiaohm The percentages are kinda off. Mar 27 14:53
schestowitz Adrian is another Windows lackey Mar 27 14:53
schestowitz A shame that a lot of editors don’t know who’s who, so they feed the Microsoft talking points Mar 27 14:54
oiaohm I think someone believed the web numbers about Linux. Mar 27 14:54
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schestowitz Yesterday BN was so overloaded that the server didn’t dispatch some mail Mar 27 14:56
oiaohm Looks like the cache is not helping you enough schestowitz Mar 27 14:57
schestowitz I think the PHP scripts were ended before they even got around to sending mail alerts. So even with caching enabled it’s no solution because we increase the load elsewhere. trmanco  what’s super cache’s improvement over wp-cache? Mar 27 14:57
schestowitz oiaohm: it helps to an extent Mar 27 14:57
schestowitz The host was happy with it, but still monitors utility Mar 27 14:58
schestowitz This is silly… promoting Jesusphone using Linux or vice versa? http://www.junauza.com/2009/03/15-co… *ping* MinceR Mar 27 14:59
oiaohm You have had a lot of advertisement recently. Mar 27 14:59
oiaohm So number of end users of your site I guess are way up as well. Mar 27 14:59
MinceR well, if it had proper support, it could turn it into a pda/phone… without warranty, keyboard or memory card slot Mar 27 14:59
MinceR HTC does it better Mar 27 14:59
MinceR oh, it’s only eye candy Mar 27 14:59
MinceR so it’s pointless Mar 27 15:00
schestowitz oiaohm: even with caching it does, on average, 128.31 q/sec Mar 27 15:01
schestowitz And it’s going up recently because more people use the site Mar 27 15:01
schestowitz MinceR: +1 Mar 27 15:01
schestowitz Red Hat is soaring 17% (!!) for beating expectations in a crisis economy. Mar 27 15:03
MinceR still, if a jesusPhone user is promoting Linux, there still might be hope for the user ;) Mar 27 15:04
schestowitz Linux has better FS than Apple’s Mac OS X Mar 27 15:04
schestowitz And that’s just one example Mar 27 15:04
schestowitz OS X = dumbed-down Linux Mar 27 15:04
schestowitz Like Linux used to be to UNIX Mar 27 15:05
Balrog well OS X has extents and B-Trees … Linux is only now implementing that Mar 27 15:05
Balrog (in ext4) Mar 27 15:05
Balrog but I think OS X will soon be using ZFS Mar 27 15:05
MinceR Balrog: have you heard of reiserfs, XFS and JFS? Mar 27 15:06
MinceR OS X is more like a dumbed-down BSD :> Mar 27 15:07
Balrog sure have. ReiserFS has been not too good in my experience; XFS is problematic for resizing, JFS is quite old… Mar 27 15:07
Balrog (but they’re ok) Mar 27 15:07
oiaohm ZFS vs btrfs is going to be interesting. Mar 27 15:07
Balrog what HFS has always had is a fast filename-searching system Mar 27 15:08
MinceR Balrog: all 3 has extents and B-trees, and have been around for quite some time Mar 27 15:09
MinceR s/has/have/ Mar 27 15:09
Balrog what about ext2 / ext3? Mar 27 15:09
schestowitz Social sites dent privacy efforts  < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi… >. Given Email snooping (old), how is this news? Mar 27 15:09
MinceR ext3 might have extents, i’m not sure Mar 27 15:09
MinceR still, it makes your previous statement untrue Mar 27 15:09
oiaohm ext were desiged as a basic filesystem. Mar 27 15:11
oiaohm You needed more advanced you used something else under Linux. Mar 27 15:11
MinceR i think the main selling point of ext3 is that it’s pretty solid and reliable. Mar 27 15:14
oiaohm Exactly basic. Mar 27 15:14
oiaohm More features you add the more reliablity problems you can have. Mar 27 15:14
*schestowitz will have to burn a day extending the passport by 10 years Mar 27 15:17
schestowitz Wouldn’t it be good if passports were just a process like registering in a Web site, getting confirmation E-mail and ticking a checkbox? ;-) Mar 27 15:18
MinceR it would be better if there were no states to cross the boundaries of Mar 27 15:19
schestowitz Or airports just a case of coming to the gate, throwing the suitcase on coverer belt at the boarding point? Mar 27 15:19
schestowitz *conveyor Mar 27 15:19
schestowitz MinceR: someone always wants to colonise, thus borders (geographical or social) Mar 27 15:20
schestowitz Even animals mark territories. They’re just taking the p*ss Mar 27 15:20
MinceR then they’re going to need some whacking. Mar 27 15:20
schestowitz The people at border control? :-D Mar 27 15:21
oiaohm http://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/inde…  <<btrfs is designed as a upgrade filesystem. Mar 27 15:21
MinceR the people who want to colonize Mar 27 15:22
schestowitz Ramp for migration to Oraclinux Mar 27 15:22
MinceR it’s called Oracle Unbreakable Linux ;) Mar 27 15:22
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schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… Mar 27 15:24
schestowitz Check out this digitised pot (opengl): http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/03/m… Mar 27 15:29
schestowitz http://www.phoronix.com/scan… (Canonical To Not Enable UXA, Too Problematic) Mar 27 15:44
schestowitz What does Europe have against GPLv3? < http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3780 >. Bureaucratic trolls. Mar 27 15:50
trmanco http://toastytech.com/evil/fea… Mar 27 15:51
schestowitz Hehe. Nice. Mar 27 15:58
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WMGarrison Roy: thank you for the ACT article. Very well written. Mar 27 16:01
schestowitz No problem Mar 27 16:02
schestowitz Yours was better Mar 27 16:02
schestowitz There are followups Mar 27 16:02
schestowitz One in ECT Mar 27 16:02
schestowitz Another in CW Mar 27 16:02
schestowitz And Red Hat feels the pinch, sending people to jiggle you in Digital Majority Mar 27 16:03
WMGarrison Indeed Mar 27 16:03
schestowitz I ejoyed writing the latest post though Mar 27 16:04
WMGarrison They will come to see this is for their own good Mar 27 16:04
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/27/… Mar 27 16:04
WMGarrison The current burst of action at the EU Commission is probably meaningless Mar 27 16:05
WMGarrison we are coming to the end of a term Mar 27 16:05
schestowitz Open saucers plan legal attack on patent office <  http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/5… > Mar 27 16:06
schestowitz LSE will have protests too Mar 27 16:06
schestowitz They’ll mess up the place Mar 27 16:06
schestowitz WMGarrison: lots of coverage re: EU+community patent Mar 27 16:06
schestowitz Bid to secure agreement on patent regime http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/impor… Mar 27 16:06
WMGarrison This is standard patent busting approach Mar 27 16:06
schestowitz McCreevyism! Mar 27 16:06
schestowitz Patents: EUROCHAMBRES welcomes negotiation mandate for the European Commission “Today, the European Commission requested from the Council a negotiation mandate on the European and Community Patent Court.” http://www.eubusiness.com/Rd/euro… Mar 27 16:07
schestowitz Meilensteine: Gewonnener Kampf gegen Softwarepatente -> http://diepresse.com/home/politik/… Mar 27 16:07
schestowitz http://www.euractiv.com/en/innovation/pat… Mar 27 16:07
WMGarrison All hell seems to have broken loose but it is probably for show.  Nothing serious can happen any longer in this session. Mar 27 16:08
WMGarrison I assume many lobbyists and PR people are putting in lots of invoiceable hours Mar 27 16:08
WMGarrison I have summarized our questions to Red Hat here: http://wmgarrison.wikidot.com/ Mar 27 16:09
schestowitz Thanks. Mar 27 16:09
schestowitz */me looks Mar 27 16:09
*schestowitz looks Mar 27 16:10
WMGarrison Thanks to you, you do a very important job Mar 27 16:10
schestowitz Who was it mailed to? Mar 27 16:10
WMGarrison Red Hat’s jwildeboer is aware of it. Mar 27 16:11
schestowitz Intel patent war erupts: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquir… Mar 27 16:11
WMGarrison If there is interest, we may send it as an open letter Mar 27 16:11
schestowitz I can repost it. Some in Red Hat read BoycottNovell Mar 27 16:12
WMGarrison My thanks Mar 27 16:13
WMGarrison Perhaps we hold Red Hat to a higher standard Mar 27 16:14
schestowitz Yes, they got high Mar 27 16:15
schestowitz ACT was also defending MS in the EU antotrust case. Mar 27 16:15
schestowitz There are video recordings of him on the Audiovisual website of the Mar 27 16:15
schestowitz Commission. Mar 27 16:15
schestowitz Oops. Wrong clipboard stack Mar 27 16:15
schestowitz I was gonna paste a link to RHAT  (RHT now) jumping 17% Mar 27 16:15
schestowitz They had good results Mar 27 16:15
schestowitz The Apple of the Linux world… vanity implied Mar 27 16:15
WMGarrison Zuck is well known in Brussels as the “large American software patents guy” Mar 27 16:15
schestowitz He’s a lrge guy Mar 27 16:16
schestowitz Not sure about “American software patents” Mar 27 16:16
schestowitz Maybe they can send him to boot camp to lose some weight Mar 27 16:16
schestowitz It wouldl keep him out of Brussels for a while Mar 27 16:16
WMGarrison Must leave, goodbye Mar 27 16:16
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MinceR the French invented a nice way to lose weight quickly Mar 27 16:17
schestowitz Off with em ehads? Mar 27 16:17
MinceR indeed Mar 27 16:18
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schestowitz Opera plans Turbo mobile peek < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03… > Mar 27 16:25
schestowitz Ballmer’s bully buddy has just had his wage slashed: http://www.theregister.co.uk/… Can EMC take the next step and give Tucci the boot? That wouldn’t save VMware from the 3 Microsoft employees/executives Tucci installed in it… what a traitor. Mar 27 16:27
schestowitz “Extreme Networks told the Securities and Exchange Commission yesterday that it is cutting more jobs.” http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/27/extreme_job_cuts/ Mar 27 16:28
schestowitz zoobab01: Good post: http://www.digitalmajority.org/foru… To what extent can imatrix play a role in bias though? Mar 27 16:48
schestowitz “This is the same company which could’ve adopted ODF (open document format), a perfectly good document standard which had already passed ISO standards, but instead railroaded ISO to have openxml approved despite mountains of problems.” http://www.itworld.com/comments/65143 Mar 27 16:49
schestowitz http://news.zdnet.com/2424-95… (Twitter still has no business model, and that’s OK) Mar 27 16:53
schestowitz SEC Plans New Money Manager Rules After Madoff Fraud < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi… > Mar 27 17:11
schestowitz Amazon To Shutdown 3 Distribution Centers, Affecting 210 employees  < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/… > RMS boycotts them Mar 27 17:18
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schestowitz Nowhere to hide: Forensic tool moves to Linux < http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/N… > Mar 27 17:34
schestowitz http://education.zdnet.com/?p=2310 (Who cares if XP support is ending?) Microsoft commits acts of stupidity again. Mar 27 17:34
PetoKraus hmm Mar 27 17:41
PetoKraus i don’t think the “forensic tool” can do anything you couldn’t gather manually Mar 27 17:41
PetoKraus only that it may be certified to ensure the evidence is not planted Mar 27 17:41
schestowitz It’s Mac utils anyway Mar 27 17:42
schestowitz Not of much use Mar 27 17:42
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PetoKraus which i guess is the reason why the price point is so high Mar 27 17:42
schestowitz Hmmmmmm…. “After the recently leaked document from his ESS WG (the current rumour is that Zuck did it on purpose) [...] Secrecy and mystery are powerful weapons. Just think about ACTA and the so called leak of a preparatory information document by anyone. That gave ACTA a whole lot of buzz. I even doubt the ACTA document was confidential.” Mar 27 17:44
schestowitz “My initial idea was to get you some parts of the document, and then ask someone if he can “leak” the (actually public and non-confidential) document. It is not formally “confidential” but no one has it. These are “lost documents” and there are hundreds.” Mar 27 17:44
schestowitz Does anyone have the latest ACTA revision? Mar 27 17:44
schestowitz re: Novell deal.. “YEP! Pretty hard to communicate openly and properly about a SECRET agreement. Make the agreement open and public and let us judge for itself whether you sold your soul or not…” http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story… Mar 27 18:02
schestowitz http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry4177.html “Wow, Jim, really? Perhaps you shouldn’t be CEO of a Linux company. How does Microsoft make money off of Windows? They sell it. I know it sounds crazy, Jim, but that’s how it works. You create something that people want and they’ll buy it. Isn’t that cool?” Mar 27 18:06
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wispygalaxy hi everyone! Mar 27 18:23
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wispygalaxy hi, is anyone here?? Mar 27 18:31
trmanco hello Mar 27 18:32
wispygalaxy hi tony :) Mar 27 18:33
trmanco :) Mar 27 18:33
wispygalaxy so you made it haha Mar 27 18:33
wispygalaxy is roy around Mar 27 18:33
trmanco I’m always around here -P Mar 27 18:33
trmanco ping schestowitz Mar 27 18:33
trmanco I think he is Mar 27 18:33
wispygalaxy cool thx Mar 27 18:33
wispygalaxy did you get my message i sent you Mar 27 18:34
trmanco on digg? yeah Mar 27 18:34
wispygalaxy oh ok good Mar 27 18:34
wispygalaxy im at school now, what about you Mar 27 18:35
trmanco I typed earlier this morning that you were joining the BN’s channel today Mar 27 18:35
wispygalaxy thx, hope he got the message Mar 27 18:36
trmanco I’m at home, preparing myself for the best 10 days of my like :-P Mar 27 18:36
trmanco life* Mar 27 18:36
wispygalaxy spring break for you? :D Mar 27 18:36
trmanco yeah, but I’m going out to another country to party :-P Mar 27 18:36
wispygalaxy i had mine earlier this month, it was cloudy almost everyday during my vacation :( Mar 27 18:36
wispygalaxy nice where are you going Mar 27 18:36
wispygalaxy i wanted to go to florida with my family, but my sister was at college Mar 27 18:37
trmanco some little city in Spain Mar 27 18:37
wispygalaxy thats nice, north or south? Mar 27 18:37
trmanco I have to check I dunno Mar 27 18:37
trmanco north I guess Mar 27 18:38
wispygalaxy i would like to go to spain too Mar 27 18:38
trmanco http://is.gd/pi8x Mar 27 18:38
wispygalaxy i see it’s near france Mar 27 18:39
trmanco yes Mar 27 18:39
wispygalaxy ive been to france before, but when i was a baby Mar 27 18:40
trmanco I’ve never been to France yet Mar 27 18:40
schestowitz Hey, wispygalaxy Mar 27 18:40
wispygalaxy hi roy! :) Mar 27 18:40
wispygalaxy you should go tony, i want to go there again because i dont remember anything about my visit there Mar 27 18:41
*schestowitz catches up Mar 27 18:41
wispygalaxy i came about 10 minutes ago Mar 27 18:41
trmanco I would like to visit Paris some day Mar 27 18:41
schestowitz Sorry, got distracted by something) Mar 27 18:41
wispygalaxy i was lonely here for a while Mar 27 18:41
wispygalaxy haha Mar 27 18:41
trmanco :-P Mar 27 18:41
wispygalaxy my sister knows a lot of french Mar 27 18:42
wispygalaxy thats ok roy ;) Mar 27 18:42
wispygalaxy its so nice where im at, i hate being stuck inside for class when its spring :( Mar 27 18:43
wispygalaxy i saw tulips near my dorm, they are the only flowers i saw so far on campus Mar 27 18:43
wispygalaxy still, things are ugly around here: no leaves on trees yet Mar 27 18:44
schestowitz hows digg? Mar 27 18:45
*schestowitz eats a sandwich Mar 27 18:45
wispygalaxy haha i just had one today roy Mar 27 18:46
wispygalaxy what type Mar 27 18:46
wispygalaxy digg is okay, not like it was a year ago Mar 27 18:46
schestowitz sardines :-s Mar 27 18:46
schestowitz digg is depressing Mar 27 18:46
wispygalaxy my sister likes sardines on her pizza XD Mar 27 18:46
schestowitz dead more or less Mar 27 18:47
wispygalaxy yeah its all dumb stuff now Mar 27 18:47
schestowitz the honeymoons over Mar 27 18:47
wispygalaxy darn Mar 27 18:47
wispygalaxy the linux section is still readable Mar 27 18:47
wispygalaxy thanks to motang, astralknight, etc Mar 27 18:47
wispygalaxy so what do you plan to do this weekend, roy? Mar 27 18:48
wispygalaxy i might go to the park, anything that has to do with the outdoors Mar 27 18:49
schestowitz OK, now I can type Mar 27 18:51
schestowitz astralknight? Don’t know that user… Mar 27 18:52
wispygalaxy he’s new on digg Mar 27 18:52
schestowitz It’s too cold here to enjoy being outside. Mar 27 18:52
wispygalaxy just friended him Mar 27 18:52
wispygalaxy awww that sucks Mar 27 18:52
schestowitz No way Mar 27 18:52
schestowitz People still join Digg? Mar 27 18:52
wispygalaxy yeah haha Mar 27 18:52
schestowitz Oh Mar 27 18:52
wispygalaxy politics have taken over digg though, i dont see them b/c i blocked them Mar 27 18:53
schestowitz The anti-Google lobby: Copyright – let the authors beware < http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/f… > Mar 27 18:54
schestowitz Digg politics = “ron paul tee rulez +4422 digg” Mar 27 18:54
wispygalaxy haha ron paul is not *all* that Mar 27 18:55
wispygalaxy he doesnt believe in evolution Mar 27 18:55
wispygalaxy thats unacceptable Mar 27 18:55
schestowitz I find the most articles that are interesting to me in TuxMachines Mar 27 18:55
schestowitz Digg seems obsolete for news Mar 27 18:55
wispygalaxy so true Mar 27 18:55
schestowitz It’s for self-pleasing fans of <thing> Mar 27 18:56
wispygalaxy its all ‘funny’ videos and apple news Mar 27 18:56
schestowitz Funny  = “kevin rose squeaks at cat” Mar 27 18:56
wispygalaxy lol Mar 27 18:56
schestowitz I think Ars Technica games Digg Mar 27 18:56
schestowitz Other sites do, for  a fact Mar 27 18:57
schestowitz The basis for the site is hacked Mar 27 18:57
wispygalaxy i think a lot of site do Mar 27 18:57
schestowitz They thought people would promote important news Mar 27 18:57
wispygalaxy so many spammers friend me on digg Mar 27 18:57
schestowitz Instead people promote what they WANT promoted Mar 27 18:57
wispygalaxy its not another slashdot i guess lol Mar 27 18:57
schestowitz That’s a seperate and mutually-indep’ thing Mar 27 18:57
schestowitz *Separate Mar 27 18:57
schestowitz Also, Rose himself complained about it Mar 27 18:57
wispygalaxy ‘power diggers’ Mar 27 18:58
schestowitz wispygalaxy: I think it is (another /.) Mar 27 18:58
wispygalaxy oh yeah, with the trolls Mar 27 18:58
schestowitz gamed by marketing people and ruined by agenda Mar 27 18:58
wispygalaxy *sigh* Mar 27 18:58
schestowitz Like AstroTurfers Mar 27 18:58
schestowitz Maybe Murdoch will just buy Digg and call it a day Mar 27 18:58
schestowitz RIP Mar 27 18:58
wispygalaxy leave us alone!  we want to promote linux, and you guys are spreading mean and untrue things Mar 27 18:59
wispygalaxy murdoch’s wealth was halved, i heard Mar 27 18:59
wispygalaxy diversify your portfolio, i say Mar 27 18:59
wispygalaxy i hear that in all of my finance courses, but people *still* dont do that Mar 27 19:00
wispygalaxy banks dont even focus on diversification; they worry too much about net interest income more Mar 27 19:00
trmanco who’s Murdoch? Mar 27 19:00
wispygalaxy rupert murdoch is the head of newscorp Mar 27 19:00
wispygalaxy which owns the wall street journal Mar 27 19:01
wispygalaxy i had to subscribe to that last semester Mar 27 19:01
wispygalaxy $30 Mar 27 19:01
trmanco Wow Mar 27 19:01
wispygalaxy it also owns fox news Mar 27 19:01
schestowitz The RIAA vs. 19 Year Old Cancer Patient < http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/enterta… > Mar 27 19:01
schestowitz wispygalaxy: you paid the Beast Mar 27 19:02
wispygalaxy jerks Mar 27 19:02
wispygalaxy my professor made us subscribe, she had the electronic list of people who had a subscription Mar 27 19:03
wispygalaxy at least i dont read it now Mar 27 19:03
wispygalaxy i read online news exclusively Mar 27 19:03
Omar87 hi Mar 27 19:03
wispygalaxy hey omar Mar 27 19:03
schestowitz http://www.latimes.com/business/… “The online music store, under pressure from record labels, is abandoning its 99-cent-only strategy.” Mar 27 19:04
wispygalaxy listen to the market and your customers, that is the way to go Mar 27 19:04
schestowitz WSJ is among the few dinosaurs that restrict online access Mar 27 19:04
schestowitz But the WSJ dinosaur is merely owned by another dinosaur, who may think of it as a lookalike pet Mar 27 19:05
wispygalaxy old people nowadays seem to only read papers Mar 27 19:05
wispygalaxy i live next door to two elderly couples, both get newspapers Mar 27 19:05
wispygalaxy my dad never got the paper because he’s allergic to newsprint Mar 27 19:05
wispygalaxy true story Mar 27 19:05
wispygalaxy i heard congress wants to rescue US papers Mar 27 19:06
trmanco :| Mar 27 19:06
wispygalaxy stop with the government spending! Mar 27 19:06
trmanco I just hate to be anxious for something sorry for the [OT]… Mar 27 19:06
trmanco grrr Mar 27 19:06
trmanco time just won’t pass by Mar 27 19:06
wispygalaxy thats ok tony Mar 27 19:06
wispygalaxy i cant wait for the next decade, hopefully things will be better Mar 27 19:07
*trmanco opens email, and hopes he has 5000 new emails to read Mar 27 19:07
wispygalaxy its not over 9000 Mar 27 19:07
wispygalaxy :( Mar 27 19:07
trmanco 2010? what is so special about that year? Linux owns Windows again? :-p Mar 27 19:08
wispygalaxy i think taxes change that year in the US Mar 27 19:08
wispygalaxy inheritance tax, not sure Mar 27 19:09
schestowitz Saving newspaper is stupid Mar 27 19:10
schestowitz We have something better already Mar 27 19:10
schestowitz Like wikileaks and blogs Mar 27 19:10
schestowitz But they try to save their old buddies at taxpayers’ expense. That’s you. Mar 27 19:10
trmanco that would be great, if the change to less Mar 27 19:10
wispygalaxy faster access to info, less trees dying, and less cumbersome to handle Mar 27 19:10
Balrog what do you think, ogg or mkv? Mar 27 19:10
trmanco Balrog, ogg Mar 27 19:10
schestowitz “Give us your money, wispygalaxy, we need to fund some propaganda to fund *you*” Mar 27 19:10
wispygalaxy hi balrog! Mar 27 19:10
wispygalaxy tony, i think the taxes will be 0% in 2010 for inheritance Mar 27 19:11
schestowitz Actually, the thing about PR is terrible because it’s a Trillion$ industry in the US that taxpayers in the US fund Mar 27 19:11
Balrog yeah, but a very good program for transcoding stuff I use (FOSS) doesn’t support it well Mar 27 19:11
wispygalaxy haha roy Mar 27 19:11
wispygalaxy dont brainwash me!!! Mar 27 19:11
schestowitz So they pay to be deceived, essnetially. Mar 27 19:11
schestowitz Yet nobody protests Mar 27 19:11
Balrog they say ‘because ogg doesn’t support VFR [variable framerates]‘ Mar 27 19:11
wispygalaxy b/c they are watching american idol and dont care Mar 27 19:11
schestowitz American Idol is selling dreams to people Mar 27 19:12
schestowitz “Work hard, stop thinking, maybe you’ll be famous” Mar 27 19:12
trmanco crap, I only have 400 emails to read Mar 27 19:12
wispygalaxy i was soo obsessed with that show in middle school Mar 27 19:12
wispygalaxy i watched *every* episode Mar 27 19:12
wispygalaxy like the fangirl i was Mar 27 19:12
schestowitz This prevents people from pursuing things that might be more challenging to then. it’s a cycle that is hard to escape, and it’s designed this way Mar 27 19:12
wispygalaxy tony i have email inbox problems too haha, i can never read all of them Mar 27 19:13
schestowitz wispygalaxy: not good for you Mar 27 19:13
schestowitz Harmful to people’s esteem Mar 27 19:13
Balrog I always read all email Mar 27 19:13
schestowitz Making heroes is a weaspon to controlling minds and feelings. Mar 27 19:13
schestowitz People live in the reflection of TV idols Mar 27 19:14
wispygalaxy its like greek mythology Mar 27 19:14
schestowitz You can then project habit via celebrities and onto people who admire them Mar 27 19:14
wispygalaxy people loved and hated their gods Mar 27 19:14
schestowitz it’s a fascinating PR technique that they have Mar 27 19:14
wispygalaxy balrog, i get so many emails from youtube Mar 27 19:14
schestowitz Likewise with shopping, AKA spanding/spreeing. Mar 27 19:14
schestowitz it’s a culture that increase loan giivng (money to banks) and boosts revenue for shops Mar 27 19:14
Balrog wispygalaxy: why do you have youtube sending emails? Mar 27 19:15
schestowitz Now they take the toll. Ho hum… Mar 27 19:15
wispygalaxy my sister is a shopping champ, she gets at least 2 articles of clothing every time she goes to the mall Mar 27 19:15
Balrog does she wear all the clothing? Mar 27 19:15
wispygalaxy balrog, they alert me to videos sent from friends.  i dont miss them that way Mar 27 19:15
wispygalaxy yes she does balrog haha Mar 27 19:15
Balrog I see Mar 27 19:15
schestowitz Balrog: why wear them? Mar 27 19:15
schestowitz It’s materialistic possession Mar 27 19:16
wispygalaxy everytime i see her, i dont recognize at least one part of her outfit Mar 27 19:16
Balrog heh lol Mar 27 19:16
schestowitz Accumulation as an esteem factor Mar 27 19:16
trmanco oh crap Mar 27 19:16
Balrog that’s going too far …… Mar 27 19:16
trmanco Sun is against linux Mar 27 19:16
Balrog especially with something like clothes :/ Mar 27 19:16
Balrog trmanco: link Mar 27 19:16
wispygalaxy when i ask her about it, she says “ugh dont you remember?? i got this last week at forever 21.  you were there!” Mar 27 19:16
schestowitz Women often buy articles of clothing to replace old ones Mar 27 19:16
schestowitz The trouble is that older ones  become obsolete Mar 27 19:16
Balrog though I know they like to promote [Open]Solaris Mar 27 19:16
wispygalaxy or out of fashion ones! Mar 27 19:16
trmanco Balrog, https://communications2.sun.com/servle… Mar 27 19:16
schestowitz Fashion instructs planned obsolecense Mar 27 19:16
trmanco just received this newsletter Mar 27 19:17
schestowitz If you change fashion constantly and use famous people to push it, then old clotihing become obsolete Mar 27 19:17
wispygalaxy my dad still has shirts from the ’80s, its up to my mom to dispose of them.  my family is not poor at all, though Mar 27 19:17
schestowitz That’s find Mar 27 19:17
schestowitz Sentimental value Mar 27 19:17
schestowitz Sometimes the old clothes bear some memory Mar 27 19:17
schestowitz Attachment is formed Mar 27 19:17
schestowitz But anyway.. Mar 27 19:17
schestowitz That’s bad for industry Mar 27 19:18
schestowitz it thrives in obsolescence. Mar 27 19:18
schestowitz Vista for example Mar 27 19:18
wispygalaxy there will always be demand for fashion, dont worry designers! Mar 27 19:18
schestowitz You need new chips and monitors that are DRM- and TC-’ready’ Mar 27 19:18
wispygalaxy also the car industry with Ford Mar 27 19:18
wispygalaxy the model t was involved with planned obsolescence Mar 27 19:18
schestowitz Clothing too. It’s important to single out and marginalise those who don’t comply with fashion trends Mar 27 19:19
schestowitz Else they might *god forbid* not buy the latest and greatest Mar 27 19:19
wispygalaxy at college, fashion is not as big of an issue as it was in high school Mar 27 19:19
schestowitz Commodity in fashion is another issue Mar 27 19:19
wispygalaxy there were so many punks, preppy, emo, and scene kids at my school Mar 27 19:19
schestowitz Clothing fares need to be artificially inflated. Mar 27 19:19
schestowitz Fashion and advertising can do that Mar 27 19:19
schestowitz “Selling a dream” as Guy Kawasaki called it Mar 27 19:20
schestowitz Why people buy Macs for so much money…… Mar 27 19:20
schestowitz They buy an image Mar 27 19:20
wispygalaxy i learned about that in my marketing class Mar 27 19:20
wispygalaxy remember hathaway shirts?  they were so successful because it was all about image, the shirts were nothing special; they were massed produced.  but the ads had a fancy theme to them Mar 27 19:21
Balrog schestowitz: not always. That’s a certain percentage Mar 27 19:21
Balrog maybe … 25-50% Mar 27 19:21
Balrog many people buy macs for practical purposes Mar 27 19:22
Balrog (at least many people I know) Mar 27 19:22
schestowitz Yes, I exaggerated :-) Mar 27 19:22
schestowitz Balrog: my Apple remarks are often tongue-in-cheek Mar 27 19:22
schestowitz I wish Apple had sold with less attitudinal emphasis Mar 27 19:23
wispygalaxy cheeky haha Mar 27 19:23
schestowitz Like the pretentionous that’s dripping from the ads Mar 27 19:23
Balrog I had a friend … he passed away a couple of years ago, but he was in a newspaper editor and had to deal with the old archaic formats … he also did video stuff …. always used macs Mar 27 19:23
wispygalaxy conspicuous consumption Mar 27 19:23
Balrog ads are ads Mar 27 19:23
Balrog the MS ads that will be coming up should be interesting Mar 27 19:24
wispygalaxy i saw the MS ad with the woman who had to buy a computer for under $1000 Mar 27 19:24
wispygalaxy do you guys want a link Mar 27 19:24
schestowitz BN has just been entered into ODF Planet \0/ Mar 27 19:24
MinceR i wish apple just hurried up and died already Mar 27 19:25
wispygalaxy is there a link for that Mar 27 19:25
Balrog Apple won’t die Mar 27 19:25
Balrog sorry :D Mar 27 19:25
schestowitz Not yet Mar 27 19:25
MinceR yes, i know, the fanboys won’t ever shut up Mar 27 19:25
schestowitz Microsoft might still be harrassing them Mar 27 19:25
Balrog they will have to adapt as linux becomes more prevalent though Mar 27 19:25
schestowitz PJ thinks so Mar 27 19:25
schestowitz She wrote about it tofay Mar 27 19:25
Balrog and I don’t see how that would be hard Mar 27 19:25
MinceR in fact, i almost wrote “i wish the apple fanboys shut up” Mar 27 19:25
schestowitz In Groklaw.. Mar 27 19:25
schestowitz lawsuits by proxy Mar 27 19:26
MinceR but then i realized there’s a lot more to apple than marketing and obnoxious cultists Mar 27 19:26
wispygalaxy sco, roy Mar 27 19:26
MinceR there’s the push for DRM and sw patents Mar 27 19:26
wispygalaxy bad apple Mar 27 19:26
schestowitz wispygalaxy: not just SCO Mar 27 19:26
MinceR there’s the patent issues and the constant stream of FUD Mar 27 19:26
schestowitz They also told publishers to sue Google pretty much Mar 27 19:26
wispygalaxy poor tomtom! Mar 27 19:26
schestowitz Some of this is done openly Mar 27 19:26
schestowitz Some is less subtle Mar 27 19:26
wispygalaxy dont hurt google Mar 27 19:27
Balrog apple told publishers to sue google? Apple partners with google for a lot of things Mar 27 19:27
schestowitz Microsoft mode of operation is still the same Mar 27 19:27
schestowitz Run by ne-gangsters at the top Mar 27 19:27
Balrog or is that MS? Mar 27 19:27
MinceR Balrog: i doubt that adapting is compatible with the apple culture Mar 27 19:27
MinceR maybe after jobs finally dies Mar 27 19:27
schestowitz [H]omer would know Mar 27 19:27
MinceR but then apple will probably follow Mar 27 19:27
Balrog of course it is…why did they put Xorg into 10.3? Mar 27 19:27
Balrog (yes, it’s an addon, but before 10.3 there was no decent Xorg) Mar 27 19:27
MinceR yay, it’s an addon no self-respecting apple fanboy would touch Mar 27 19:28
MinceR since it’s not the holy osx gui Mar 27 19:28
Balrog I touch it when I need to Mar 27 19:28
wispygalaxy what’s up with aqua Mar 27 19:28
Balrog the OS X gui isn’t bad, when you start programming it Mar 27 19:28
Balrog if you don’t want to touch OS X, look at GNUStep and Etoile OS Mar 27 19:28
MinceR i think we’ve already discussed why the bad can’t be programmed out of it :> Mar 27 19:28
Balrog wispygalaxy: MinceR wants such annoying things as focus-follows-mouse Mar 27 19:29
MinceR i’ve looked at GNUstep and i prefer KDE Mar 27 19:29
Balrog things like that drive me crazy Mar 27 19:29
MinceR i’ve never heard of etoile OS Mar 27 19:29
wispygalaxy haha balrog Mar 27 19:29
wispygalaxy kde FTW! Mar 27 19:29
MinceR Balrog: yes, please tell everyone how they should use their GUI Mar 27 19:29
Balrog it’s a layer on top of GNUStep Mar 27 19:29
MinceR after all, that’s what apple does Mar 27 19:29
MinceR and above all the fanboys Mar 27 19:29
Balrog MinceR: please tell companies to put a feature in that < 0.01% of users will use Mar 27 19:30
MinceR i don’t need companies to do that Mar 27 19:30
wispygalaxy there should be as much choice as possible for people who care about it Mar 27 19:30
MinceR there’s a great community that does just that Mar 27 19:30
Balrog if they did that for all features requested, could would be so bloated Mar 27 19:30
Balrog or ask a foss project Mar 27 19:30
MinceR you know, the sort of people whose work you despise Mar 27 19:30
schestowitz Fujitsu staff clash with bosses over pay freeze < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009… > Mar 27 19:30
MinceR and whose work apple rips off and sells to you for lots of money Mar 27 19:30
Balrog I just had a problem with a foss project today … their ogg support is broken and they don’t want to fix it Mar 27 19:30
MinceR and then whom apple tries to prevent from doing that work in the future Mar 27 19:31
Balrog they say it’s deprecated and use MKV but I need ogg Mar 27 19:31
Balrog sounds like what you’re talking about Apple … in a foss project Mar 27 19:31
wispygalaxy roy, all firms should know that messing with pay is a no-no.  if a company freezes dividends, that will make stockholders very angry Mar 27 19:32
Balrog heh Mar 27 19:32
wispygalaxy im playing a stockholder game in my investment banking class, and the manual says don’t f*ck with dividends Mar 27 19:33
trmanco http://digg.com/linux_unix/Wine_1_1_18 Mar 27 19:33
Balrog KDE crashes a lot for me, unfortunately Mar 27 19:33
Balrog even 4.2 Mar 27 19:33
wispygalaxy uh oh! Mar 27 19:33
Balrog XFCE and GNOME are stable Mar 27 19:33
wispygalaxy well, im on 3.5 right now Mar 27 19:33
Balrog I don’t like 3.x :( Mar 27 19:33
Balrog rather have gnome Mar 27 19:33
wispygalaxy but i want to use 4.2… it’s pretty!  :D Mar 27 19:33
wispygalaxy thanks tony Mar 27 19:34
Balrog yeah, pretty, like vista :P Mar 27 19:34
wispygalaxy you can customize it though! Mar 27 19:34
schestowitz wispygalaxy: the manual says “f*ck”? Mar 27 19:34
wispygalaxy no haha Mar 27 19:34
wispygalaxy im paraphrasing Mar 27 19:35
schestowitz Very much so, I’m sure Mar 27 19:35
MinceR if stockholders had a clue, they’d know that dividends don’t really matter Mar 27 19:35
wispygalaxy the manual is written by a boring professor, nuff said Mar 27 19:35
schestowitz trmanco: watch how one of the PR drones submit the same thing and makes FP Mar 27 19:36
wispygalaxy capital gains > dividends Mar 27 19:36
trmanco schestowitz, yeah, I’ll be waiting Mar 27 19:36
wispygalaxy who is the PR drone? Mar 27 19:36
trmanco but I hope mine makes the frontpage Mar 27 19:36
MinceR i thought they were equal :) Mar 27 19:36
wispygalaxy capital gains are the changes in stock price, dividends are income Mar 27 19:36
MinceR yes Mar 27 19:37
wispygalaxy they are taxed differently Mar 27 19:37
MinceR i meant that it doesn’t matter which way you profit Mar 27 19:37
MinceR oh, taxes might change the game Mar 27 19:37
wispygalaxy its better to have capital gains since they are usually taxed at a lower rate (not at the income tax level) Mar 27 19:37
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