03.31.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 30th, 2009 – Part 2
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| schestowitz | oiaohm: no, no updates | Mar 30 13:25 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Server Load 30.00 (4 cpus) Memory Used 90.6 % | Mar 30 13:25 |
| *ledil (n=ledil@sign-5d83d094.pool.einsundeins.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 30 13:27 | |
| oiaohm | That is really acting like leak. | Mar 30 13:29 |
| oiaohm | CPU usage is too load. | Mar 30 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Load/low. | Mar 30 13:29 |
| schestowitz | I’ll put more info. | Mar 30 13:29 |
| schestowitz | mysql (5.0.67-community) up | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | pop failed | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | named up | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | cpsrvd up | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | imap up | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | exim-198 up | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | syslogd up | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | spamd up | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | lfd up | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | httpd (1.3.41 (Unix)) up | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | ftpd failed | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | exim (exim-4.69-15_cpanel_maildir) up | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | Server Load 30.00 (4 cpus) | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | Memory Used 90.6 % | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | Swap Used 99 % | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | Disk /dev/hda2 (/tmp) 2 % | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | Disk /dev/hdc1 (/backup) 88 % | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | Disk /dev/hda5 (/) 52 % | Mar 30 13:30 |
| schestowitz | Disk /dev/hda1 (/boot) 31 % | Mar 30 13:30 |
| zer0c00l | swap 99% ? thrashing? | Mar 30 13:30 |
| zer0c00l | lot of paging activity | Mar 30 13:31 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I saw that | Mar 30 13:34 |
| schestowitz | I think they turn attention to it now | Mar 30 13:35 |
| schestowitz | http and other services disabled | Mar 30 13:35 |
| schestowitz | It’s probably about time… EC to Probe Online Profiling by Web Sites and ISPs < http://www.pcworld.com/article/162177/ec_… > | Mar 30 13:37 |
| schestowitz | Server Load 7.93 (4 cpus) | Mar 30 13:38 |
| schestowitz | Memory Used 27.5 % | Mar 30 13:38 |
| schestowitz | OK, they brought it back up | Mar 30 13:38 |
| schestowitz | Memory OK for now. I think they didn’t reboot, just done diagnosis/troubleshoot | Mar 30 13:38 |
| *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 30 13:48 | |
| oiaohm | oom killer might have caught up with it too. | Mar 30 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Linux systems naturally recover from a leak eventually. | Mar 30 13:58 |
| schestowitz | I think theyh took down some services | Mar 30 13:59 |
| schestowitz | Momentarily | Mar 30 13:59 |
| schestowitz | cpanel gave visibility of fewer | Mar 30 13:59 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, it’s back up without any trouble. Downtime was over half an hour. | Mar 30 13:59 |
| oiaohm | Now its what caused it. | Mar 30 14:01 |
| schestowitz | On Sunday we did over 6GB of traffic | Mar 30 14:01 |
| schestowitz | 5.3Gb to humans | Mar 30 14:01 |
| schestowitz | We’ll outgrow this too, despite the caching | Mar 30 14:02 |
| schestowitz | My preferred host (for 3 sites I have) doesn’t do VPS | Mar 30 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Shane wanted to pass over to me the domain | Mar 30 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Because it takes up his take | Mar 30 14:03 |
| schestowitz | But it hardly matetrs | Mar 30 14:03 |
| oiaohm | You sites growth rare has been impressive. | Mar 30 14:04 |
| oiaohm | I was excepting the caching to buy you about 1 year. | Mar 30 14:04 |
| schestowitz | If I invite more people to contribute articles for us, do you think they would respond? | Mar 30 14:05 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: the site was bigger in January and February | Mar 30 14:05 |
| schestowitz | We did almost twice as much | Mar 30 14:05 |
| schestowitz | Because I leaked a lot of crimes from Comes vs Microsoft | Mar 30 14:05 |
| schestowitz | The site went down a lot back then, as you can recall | Mar 30 14:05 |
| schestowitz | 700,000 hits/day at times | Mar 30 14:06 |
| oiaohm | Any artical by me could really attrack flame. What seams natural to me does not seam natural to a lot of people. | Mar 30 14:06 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : because u r an experienced man | Mar 30 14:07 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is great to discuss with you | Mar 30 14:07 |
| oiaohm | Its not impossable for MS to stay live. | Mar 30 14:08 |
| oiaohm | Its just not going to be fun. | Mar 30 14:08 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: well, _Hicham_ calls you radical | Mar 30 14:08 |
| MinceR | life support? :> | Mar 30 14:08 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I agree. The discussions you make are enjoyable and expose what’s not typically stated in blogs | Mar 30 14:08 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: alive — Yes | Mar 30 14:09 |
| schestowitz | It has a brand | Mar 30 14:09 |
| schestowitz | It can sell mice | Mar 30 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Heavly tainted brand. | Mar 30 14:09 |
| MinceR | maybe they’ll sell microsoft floppies and cd-rs! | Mar 30 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Who would trust them MinceR | Mar 30 14:09 |
| MinceR | nobody but it would be a joke brand | Mar 30 14:10 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft Linux | Mar 30 14:10 |
| _Hicham_ | that would be their last move | Mar 30 14:10 |
| _Hicham_ |  |
Mar 30 14:10 |
| schestowitz | They can’t | Mar 30 14:11 |
| schestowitz | SUSE is their best bety | Mar 30 14:11 |
| schestowitz | But it’s like selling ice to eskimos | Mar 30 14:12 |
| schestowitz | Linux users ain’t stupid | Mar 30 14:12 |
| schestowitz | And it shows | Mar 30 14:12 |
| schestowitz | Even if SLED is good (and OpenSUSE too) people avoid it | Mar 30 14:12 |
| schestowitz | They have bad karma | Mar 30 14:12 |
| schestowitz | People choose distros based on what buddied recommend | Mar 30 14:12 |
| MinceR | there already is microsoft linux | Mar 30 14:12 |
| MinceR | in multiple flavors | Mar 30 14:12 |
| MinceR | suse edition, xandros edition, turbolinux edition | Mar 30 14:12 |
| schestowitz | So it ascends from hardcore *nixers who know what Novell is up to (not PR) | Mar 30 14:12 |
| Eruaran | hmm… I wonder if my crappy motherboard has any bios updates | Mar 30 14:12 |
| schestowitz | Effects of a boycott go beyond the site | Mar 30 14:13 |
| MinceR | except suse isn’t good | Mar 30 14:13 |
| schestowitz | Like Boycott Novell protests in Kochi, India | Mar 30 14:13 |
| schestowitz | It’s a mouth-to-ear thing | Mar 30 14:13 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: OpenSUSE isn’t | Mar 30 14:13 |
| schestowitz | I don’t know about SLED11 | Mar 30 14:13 |
| schestowitz | As benJIman emphasises, it’s OpenSUSE 11.1 | Mar 30 14:13 |
| schestowitz | Redone | Mar 30 14:13 |
| schestowitz | with blobs | Mar 30 14:13 |
| _Hicham_ | India is a an advanced country in Computer Science | Mar 30 14:14 |
| schestowitz | MS codecs, patent protection…. | Mar 30 14:14 |
| _Hicham_ | OpenSuse have YaST | Mar 30 14:14 |
| MinceR | if it’s opensuse redone, then it’s crap | Mar 30 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 30 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Yes to yast | Mar 30 14:14 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: OpenSUSE had bad poatches issues | Mar 30 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Famous bloggersgot burned | Mar 30 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Wouldn’t start X after updates | Mar 30 14:14 |
| _Hicham_ | Yast has inspired drakconf i think Roy | Mar 30 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Bill Beebe and Marcel Cogne wrote about it | Mar 30 14:14 |
| _Hicham_ | aka the Mandriva Control Center | Mar 30 14:15 |
| schestowitz | In OpenSUSE 11.1 IIRC | Mar 30 14:15 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva is good | Mar 30 14:15 |
| schestowitz | I love its control centre | Mar 30 14:15 |
| schestowitz | I changed time there this morning | Mar 30 14:15 |
| schestowitz | Very intuitive and pretty | Mar 30 14:15 |
| Eruaran | I hate HP | Mar 30 14:15 |
| schestowitz | Also had more than Windows’ | Mar 30 14:15 |
| schestowitz | It has backup GUIs in there. | Mar 30 14:15 |
| _Hicham_ | it is written in Gtk2-Perl Roy | Mar 30 14:15 |
| Eruaran | Got a PC here from HP which has an Asus motherboard | Mar 30 14:15 |
| schestowitz | And all sorts of very rich options | Mar 30 14:15 |
| schestowitz | Yes, it’s GTK | Mar 30 14:15 |
| _Hicham_ | inside KDE | Mar 30 14:16 |
| Eruaran | Its not listed on the Asus site | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | GTK has a nice theme in ‘Driva 2008.1 | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | It works nicely with KDE | Mar 30 14:16 |
| _Hicham_ | I know | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | You can’t tell it’s different | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | xchat is not GTK | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | xchat is not Qt | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | And it doesn’t bother me | Mar 30 14:16 |
| _Hicham_ | are u sure? | Mar 30 14:16 |
| _Hicham_ | xchat is a gnome project | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Ignore the slip | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | I meant Qt | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | I wrote GTK at first instead of saying it sues gtk | Mar 30 14:16 |
| schestowitz | *used | Mar 30 14:17 |
| Eruaran | heh @ sues | Mar 30 14:17 |
| schestowitz | Same with Firefox | Mar 30 14:17 |
| _Hicham_ | I just wanted to say that Mandriva Control Center and Yast should be ported to all Linux Distros | Mar 30 14:17 |
| schestowitz | When I see GTK dialogues.. same with nvidia driver actually. | Mar 30 14:17 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: are they GPLed? | Mar 30 14:17 |
| Eruaran | no | Mar 30 14:17 |
| _Hicham_ | I think so | Mar 30 14:17 |
| schestowitz | Some people said the same thing about yast. | Mar 30 14:18 |
| Eruaran | I don’t like either | Mar 30 14:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Yast at least | Mar 30 14:18 |
| schestowitz | Even in community ediition? | Mar 30 14:18 |
| benJIman | schestowitz: It’s spelt openSUSE. | Mar 30 14:18 |
| _Hicham_ | there was a project to port Yast to Debian | Mar 30 14:18 |
| schestowitz | benJIman: not true :-p | Mar 30 14:18 |
| _Hicham_ | but it has stalled | Mar 30 14:18 |
| schestowitz | Even the OpenSUSE site starts capitalising it smetimes | Mar 30 14:18 |
| schestowitz | Trust me, I see it when it happens | Mar 30 14:18 |
| _Hicham_ | we need a solid control center | Mar 30 14:18 |
| Eruaran | we ? | Mar 30 14:19 |
| benJIman | schestowitz: Only places where mediawiki makes it impossible to spell lowercase. | Mar 30 14:19 |
| _Hicham_ | for All Linux Distros | Mar 30 14:19 |
| benJIman | The official name is openSUSE. | Mar 30 14:19 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 30 14:19 |
| schestowitz | benJIman: yes, re wikimedia | Mar 30 14:19 |
| Eruaran | I’m happy with what I have | Mar 30 14:19 |
| schestowitz | mediawiki | Mar 30 14:19 |
| Eruaran | I hate what suse does with kde | Mar 30 14:20 |
| Eruaran | renaming stuff without any good reason | Mar 30 14:21 |
| Eruaran | its like someone decided, “hey lets take some nice things from KDE and make them totally retarded” | Mar 30 14:21 |
| _Hicham_ | I am glad that freedesktop.org standardized things | Mar 30 14:23 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: examples? | Mar 30 14:23 |
| schestowitz | Other distros renames them in menus too | Mar 30 14:23 |
| schestowitz | For newbies | Mar 30 14:23 |
| _Hicham_ | so that we don’t have to worry about running KDE stuff inside gnome and vice versa | Mar 30 14:23 |
| oiaohm | standardization is an slow process. | Mar 30 14:23 |
| schestowitz | To some people, blue E somehoe connotates with Internet | Mar 30 14:23 |
| schestowitz | What does E stand for? | Mar 30 14:23 |
| schestowitz | E-nternet? | Mar 30 14:23 |
| schestowitz | Of course, it’s a matter of habits | Mar 30 14:23 |
| schestowitz | Firefox icon is familiar to many too | Mar 30 14:24 |
| schestowitz | Not Iceweasel | Mar 30 14:24 |
| schestowitz | Like it or hate, this be the case!  |
Mar 30 14:24 |
| _Hicham_ | iceweasel was a mistake | Mar 30 14:24 |
| schestowitz | Did it annoy mozilla? | Mar 30 14:24 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Mar 30 14:24 |
| schestowitz | I like that theyh force sites to not parse headers | Mar 30 14:24 |
| _Hicham_ | but it did annoy debian users | Mar 30 14:24 |
| schestowitz | As in… “never assume Firefox will call itself firefox” | Mar 30 14:25 |
| schestowitz | So this edicates dumb webdevs | Mar 30 14:25 |
| Eruaran | They renamed KDE’s unified ‘System Settings’ to ‘Personal Settings’ for a start | Mar 30 14:25 |
| _Hicham_ | well, there should be a workaround at the present | Mar 30 14:25 |
| _Hicham_ | there is a lot of layout engines | Mar 30 14:25 |
| _Hicham_ | Trident | Mar 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | “System Settings” was fine | Mar 30 14:26 |
| _Hicham_ | Gecko | Mar 30 14:26 |
| _Hicham_ | Webkit | Mar 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | kontrol.. | Mar 30 14:26 |
| _Hicham_ | so parsing headers is essential | Mar 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | Control Panel makes it sounds like Window ripoff | Mar 30 14:26 |
| _Hicham_ | to do some stuff | Mar 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | *Windows | Mar 30 14:26 |
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| _Hicham_ | i don’t see any problem in calling it Control Panel | Mar 30 14:27 |
| _Hicham_ | Iceweasel is still a bad sign of cooperation between Mozilla and Debian devs | Mar 30 14:27 |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla wasn’t asking for too much | Mar 30 14:27 |
| Eruaran | schestowitz: they neutered System Settings becuase they have yast… and renamed it Personal Settings and made the whole idea of it pointless and once again it leaves the end user confused between two different control centre type things | Mar 30 14:27 |
| _Hicham_ | But Debian developers are stubborn | Mar 30 14:27 |
| _Hicham_ | I think that I am gonna set up my own repo for Firefox for Debian | Mar 30 14:28 |
| _Hicham_ | I just mailed Eric Dorland, the packager of Iceweasel | Mar 30 14:28 |
| _Hicham_ | I will mail to Mozilla too | Mar 30 14:28 |
| _Hicham_ | to start my own Repo for Firefox Debian | Mar 30 14:29 |
| Eruaran | Kubuntu 9.04 does things right, it doesn’t take anything away from System Settings and lets it be used the way it is meant to, so you have KPackageKit integrated beautifully into System Settings as “Add and Remove Software” in the Computer Administration section. | Mar 30 14:29 |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla deserves better support than that | Mar 30 14:30 |
| Eruaran | I have great respect for Debian | Mar 30 14:31 |
| _Hicham_ | Eruaran : Me too | Mar 30 14:32 |
| _Hicham_ | and everyone have | Mar 30 14:32 |
| _Hicham_ | but there is some things that must be discussed | Mar 30 14:32 |
| Eruaran | they have been… | Mar 30 14:32 |
| Eruaran | endlessly | Mar 30 14:32 |
| _Hicham_ | and the users have the right to express their opinions | Mar 30 14:32 |
| _Hicham_ | and vote | Mar 30 14:32 |
| Eruaran | so do contributors | Mar 30 14:32 |
| _Hicham_ | that is real democracy | Mar 30 14:33 |
| _Hicham_ | but this was a bad move | Mar 30 14:33 |
| _Hicham_ | they were just stubborn | Mar 30 14:33 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: agree, re Mozilal | Mar 30 14:33 |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla didn’t ask for much | Mar 30 14:33 |
| Eruaran | they were standing on principle | Mar 30 14:33 |
| _Hicham_ | what principle? | Mar 30 14:33 |
| Eruaran | the four freedoms | Mar 30 14:33 |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla didn’t break any of them | Mar 30 14:34 |
| Eruaran | And what the Debian devs wanted wasn’t unreasonable either | Mar 30 14:34 |
| _Hicham_ | well it was | Mar 30 14:34 |
| Eruaran | They only wanted a Linux version of FF | Mar 30 14:34 |
| _Hicham_ | they had it | Mar 30 14:34 |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla didn’t say anything | Mar 30 14:35 |
| Eruaran | All they wanted to do was clean up and get rid of unnecessary code | Mar 30 14:35 |
| Eruaran | Mozilla did not like it | Mar 30 14:35 |
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| _Hicham_ | Mozilla just wanted to review the code | Mar 30 14:35 |
| _Hicham_ | is there anything bad in reviewing? | Mar 30 14:35 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Mar 30 14:35 |
| Eruaran | They wouldn’t accept the changes and allow it to continue to use the Firefox name and logo | Mar 30 14:35 |
| _Hicham_ | look at the openssl flaw | Mar 30 14:35 |
| _Hicham_ | who said that? | Mar 30 14:36 |
| schestowitz | I had some arguments with Mozilla too, but due to misunderstandings | Mar 30 14:36 |
| schestowitz | They are nice people | Mar 30 14:36 |
| _Hicham_ | Mike Connor just wanted to see the patches | Mar 30 14:36 |
| schestowitz | Asa and I had an argument over DRM | Mar 30 14:36 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla also supports Ogg | Mar 30 14:36 |
| _Hicham_ | to ease the upstream/downstream bugtracking | Mar 30 14:36 |
| schestowitz | Because of deadbeef (Chiristopher Blizzard) IMHO | Mar 30 14:37 |
| _Hicham_ | isn’t bugtracking one of the most aspect of FOSS? | Mar 30 14:37 |
| *Eruaran sighs | Mar 30 14:38 | |
| _Hicham_ | Debian was special to Mozilla | Mar 30 14:39 |
| _Hicham_ | but they begin to go far from the original code | Mar 30 14:39 |
| Eruaran | rubbish | Mar 30 14:39 |
| _Hicham_ | we can’t have two Firefoxes | Mar 30 14:39 |
| Eruaran | Simply not true | Mar 30 14:39 |
| _Hicham_ | why? | Mar 30 14:39 |
| _Hicham_ | prove it | Mar 30 14:40 |
| Eruaran | That they made large changes is a false accusation | Mar 30 14:40 |
| _Hicham_ | not large changes, but changes that must go to Mozilla upstream | Mar 30 14:40 |
| _Hicham_ | for reviewing | Mar 30 14:40 |
| Eruaran | oh so not large now… ok | Mar 30 14:40 |
| Eruaran | why say it in the first place ? | Mar 30 14:41 |
| _Hicham_ | say what? | Mar 30 14:41 |
| _Hicham_ | that they deviate from the original code? | Mar 30 14:41 |
| _Hicham_ | well, they did | Mar 30 14:41 |
| _Hicham_ | now, no | Mar 30 14:41 |
| Eruaran | <_Hicham_> but they begin to go far from the original code | Mar 30 14:41 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Mar 30 14:41 |
| Eruaran | you contradicted yourself | Mar 30 14:41 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Mar 30 14:41 |
| _Hicham_ | the changes were not very big | Mar 30 14:42 |
| _Hicham_ | but they deviated the original code | Mar 30 14:42 |
| Eruaran | then they didn’t “go far from the original code” | Mar 30 14:42 |
| _Hicham_ | and created problems with some plugins | Mar 30 14:42 |
| Eruaran | you cant have it both ways | Mar 30 14:42 |
| _Hicham_ | a small change can drive u away | Mar 30 14:42 |
| _Hicham_ | just a line of code | Mar 30 14:42 |
| _Hicham_ | very far | Mar 30 14:43 |
| _Hicham_ | example : modify garbage collection in xulrunner | Mar 30 14:43 |
| _Hicham_ | just one line of code | Mar 30 14:43 |
| _Hicham_ | and u are very far | Mar 30 14:43 |
| Eruaran | the answer is cooperation | Mar 30 14:43 |
| _Hicham_ | do u see now what I am saying? | Mar 30 14:43 |
| _Hicham_ | u come to my point | Mar 30 14:43 |
| _Hicham_ | finally | Mar 30 14:44 |
| Eruaran | I think Mozilla handled it badly | Mar 30 14:44 |
| _Hicham_ | that is what i was saying from the beginning | Mar 30 14:44 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Mar 30 14:44 |
| _Hicham_ | Mike Connor was very stressed | Mar 30 14:44 |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla Devs are very busy | Mar 30 14:44 |
| _Hicham_ | they are handling code and PR | Mar 30 14:44 |
| _Hicham_ | plus, developing for many platforms is not easy | Mar 30 14:45 |
| _Hicham_ | look at Firefox on Windows | Mar 30 14:46 |
| _Hicham_ | it is very well done, because Mozilla controlled it | Mar 30 14:46 |
| Eruaran | It runs better than it does on linux | Mar 30 14:46 |
| _Hicham_ | sure | Mar 30 14:47 |
| _Hicham_ | because it is controlled by Mozilla | Mar 30 14:47 |
| _Hicham_ | and they process bugs easily for the Windows platform | Mar 30 14:47 |
| _Hicham_ | not like Linux | Mar 30 14:48 |
| _Hicham_ | because u can’t know if it is an upstream or downstream bug | Mar 30 14:48 |
| _Hicham_ | u have to do additional work | Mar 30 14:48 |
| _Hicham_ | one other thing | Mar 30 14:49 |
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| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu runs the same patches as Debian | Mar 30 14:50 |
| _Hicham_ | why Mozilla don’t deny them the brand? | Mar 30 14:50 |
| Eruaran | Debian would like to know that as well | Mar 30 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Really. Does Ubuntu patch the firefox they use. | Mar 30 14:51 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : yes | Mar 30 14:51 |
| _Hicham_ | they run the Debian patches | Mar 30 14:51 |
| _Hicham_ | plus some patches of their own | Mar 30 14:51 |
| _Hicham_ | and release Firefox quicker than Debian | Mar 30 14:51 |
| oiaohm | the patches that remove firefox advertisement links. | Mar 30 14:51 |
| Eruaran | “Ubuntu uses the same set of patches as Debian, with some more of their own, and even releases beta software in their official releases. But when it’s Ubuntu, it’s fine.” ~ Mike Hommey (Debian) | Mar 30 14:52 |
| _Hicham_ | Iceweasel doesn’t remove those links oiaohm | Mar 30 14:52 |
| *mib_x8okmv is now known as [Apogee] | Mar 30 14:52 | |
| _Hicham_ | Mike Hommey didn’t see what Ubuntu Devs are allowed to Eruaran | Mar 30 14:53 |
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| oiaohm | Most likely in time Ubuntu will get hammered when one of those patches drives Mozilla bugzilla nuts. | Mar 30 14:53 |
| Eruaran | Mozilla hassled Debian unreasonably about what they were doing while at the same time letting Ubuntu do the same things and more without protest… I’d fork it as well. | Mar 30 14:53 |
| _Hicham_ | because they simply ask for review from Mozilla | Mar 30 14:53 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu Devs were sending their patches for reviewing | Mar 30 14:53 |
| oiaohm | There were over 400 invalid bugs that started it off Eruaran | Mar 30 14:53 |
| Eruaran | If youre “not allowed” its not free software. | Mar 30 14:53 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not that u r not allowed | Mar 30 14:54 |
| _Hicham_ | u r allowed | Mar 30 14:54 |
| _Hicham_ | but let s collaborate | Mar 30 14:54 |
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| oiaohm | You are not allowed if you wish to use Mozilla trade marks to do alterations that don’t go upstream. | Mar 30 14:54 |
| _Hicham_ | that is what Debian Devs failed to see | Mar 30 14:54 |
| _Hicham_ | exactly oiaohm | Mar 30 14:54 |
| _Hicham_ | isn’t that logical? | Mar 30 14:54 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm understands me | Mar 30 14:55 |
| oiaohm | Because if they are not logged up stream makes processing of mozilla bugzilla insane. | Mar 30 14:55 |
| *mib_q3ubmy is now known as nick_meu_mib_q3u | Mar 30 14:55 | |
| oiaohm | So mozilla force name change so they would not have insane any more. | Mar 30 14:55 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks God, finally oiaohm understands me | Mar 30 14:55 |
| oiaohm | For somethings I will. | Mar 30 14:55 |
| _Hicham_ | doesn’t mozilla have the right to do so? | Mar 30 14:56 |
| oiaohm | Its now if Eruaran understand it. | Mar 30 14:56 |
| _Hicham_ | I wrote to the maintainer of Iceweasel | Mar 30 14:56 |
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| oiaohm | Lot of problems are caused by distributions not upstreaming there patches. | Mar 30 14:56 |
| Eruaran | http://times.debian.net/1022-iceweasel | Mar 30 14:56 |
| _Hicham_ | exactly oiaohm | Mar 30 14:56 |
| *[Apogee]_x86 is now known as CsharpALL | Mar 30 14:57 | |
| _Hicham_ | I already read that | Mar 30 14:57 |
| _Hicham_ | Mike Hommey wasn’t seeing clear in Mike Connor’s sayings | Mar 30 14:58 |
| MinceR | waiting for upstream to merge a patch causes delays. | Mar 30 14:58 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : look at Ubuntu | Mar 30 14:58 |
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| _Hicham_ | they already released Firefox 3.0.8 | Mar 30 14:58 |
| *MinceR is constantly looking at ubuntu | Mar 30 14:58 | |
| _Hicham_ | where is Iceweasel 3.0.8 | Mar 30 14:58 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | Mar 30 14:58 |
| _Hicham_ | who would patch xulrunner for Debian? | Mar 30 14:59 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a serious bug | Mar 30 14:59 |
| Balrog | no idea :/ | Mar 30 14:59 |
| MinceR | obviously, the changes that brought 3.x didn’t originate from debian nor ubuntu | Mar 30 14:59 |
| *Eruaran sighs | Mar 30 14:59 | |
| MinceR | so it’s irrelevant | Mar 30 14:59 |
| _Hicham_ | exactly MinceR | Mar 30 14:59 |
| Eruaran | I’m going somewhere where people can read | Mar 30 14:59 |
| *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has left #boycottnovell (“http://quassel-irc.org – Chat comfortably. Anywhere.”) | Mar 30 15:00 | |
| MinceR | lol drama | Mar 30 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Debian stuffed up. | Mar 30 15:00 |
| Balrog | debian broke openssl sometime ago | Mar 30 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Mozilla is not going to forgive them simply. | Mar 30 15:00 |
| Balrog | <<remember | Mar 30 15:00 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Mar 30 15:00 |
| _Hicham_ | openssl thing | Mar 30 15:00 |
| oiaohm | We activate proto code. | Mar 30 15:00 |
| MinceR | somehow i don’t see debian pleading for forgiveness  |
Mar 30 15:00 |
| _Hicham_ | if there was collaboration with upstream | Mar 30 15:00 |
| oiaohm | then wonder why mozilla gets upset. | Mar 30 15:00 |
| _Hicham_ | the dev wouldn’t have done that | Mar 30 15:00 |
| oiaohm | pango was not approved for mainline usage. | Mar 30 15:01 |
| oiaohm | It was developer code. | Mar 30 15:01 |
| MinceR | oh noes | Mar 30 15:01 |
| MinceR | and we’ve never seen distros use prerelease code in their releases | Mar 30 15:01 |
| MinceR | ever | Mar 30 15:01 |
| MinceR | |
Mar 30 15:01 |
| _Hicham_ | as soon as I get Mozilla approval, I will start my own repo for Firefox | Mar 30 15:01 |
| oiaohm | If you do it right Mozilla is not a big ogre about it. | Mar 30 15:02 |
| Balrog | _Hicham_: Firefox branding? What patches will you use? | Mar 30 15:02 |
| _Hicham_ | No patches | Mar 30 15:02 |
| _Hicham_ | just vanilla Firefox | Mar 30 15:02 |
| _Hicham_ | debianized | Mar 30 15:02 |
| Balrog | ah ok. | Mar 30 15:02 |
| MinceR | i’m not going to make justice in the mozilla vs debian case | Mar 30 15:02 |
| _Hicham_ | well, the users must have an opinion | Mar 30 15:03 |
| oiaohm | ubuntu did ship a vanilla firefox at first. | Mar 30 15:03 |
| oiaohm | then asked politely for rights to use the other patches. | Mar 30 15:03 |
| _Hicham_ | but they collaborate with mozilla | Mar 30 15:03 |
| MinceR | my opinion is that likely both iceweasel and firefox would be fine for me. | Mar 30 15:03 |
| MinceR | or even gnu icecat. | Mar 30 15:03 |
| oiaohm | Debian just cannot get it. | Mar 30 15:03 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Mar 30 15:03 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not fine | Mar 30 15:03 |
| MinceR | (if i can get around the certificate warning screwup in 3.x) | Mar 30 15:03 |
| oiaohm | You want to make mozilla happen go back to vanilla and say sorry. | Mar 30 15:04 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: tell me not to like one of them, then. | Mar 30 15:04 |
| oiaohm | Then ask correctly for the right to use patches. | Mar 30 15:04 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: it won’t change functionality. | Mar 30 15:04 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : it is not that | Mar 30 15:04 |
| _Hicham_ | it will make bugtracking difficult | Mar 30 15:04 |
| _Hicham_ | we should help Mozilla | Mar 30 15:05 |
| _Hicham_ | it is an ingrate way | Mar 30 15:05 |
| _Hicham_ | mozilla gave us firefox | Mar 30 15:05 |
| MinceR | the ease of bugtracking isn’t the end-all be-all of browser usage | Mar 30 15:05 |
| Balrog | but what about mozilla acting like red hat (with their trademarks)? | Mar 30 15:05 |
| _Hicham_ | we wouldn’t even gave them back some credit? | Mar 30 15:05 |
| Balrog | couldn’t you say that? | Mar 30 15:05 |
| MinceR | credit was given via trademarks, which mozilla stopped :> | Mar 30 15:06 |
| _Hicham_ | Balrog : it is normal to protect their trademarks | Mar 30 15:06 |
| oiaohm | Mozilla restored to it after Debian caused problems. | Mar 30 15:06 |
| Balrog | yeah…ok. | Mar 30 15:06 |
| MinceR | i don’t know how they’re credited in the rebranded versions if at all | Mar 30 15:06 |
| oiaohm | Distributions not upstreaming do cause lots of problems. | Mar 30 15:06 |
| MinceR | afaik the problem wasn’t not upstreaming, it was patching the upstream release | Mar 30 15:07 |
| Balrog | I see. | Mar 30 15:07 |
| Balrog | well there was a mess about that with cdrecord | Mar 30 15:07 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : it is the same then | Mar 30 15:07 |
| Balrog | problem there was that the developer moved to combined GPL + CDDL codebase | Mar 30 15:07 |
| Balrog | which you cannot do | Mar 30 15:07 |
| MinceR | wasn’t the mess about cdrecord that the official version willfully omitted DVD support? | Mar 30 15:07 |
| Balrog | see http://cdrecord.berlios.de/pr… | Mar 30 15:07 |
| _Hicham_ | lack of collaboration | Mar 30 15:07 |
| Balrog | no, it started with ‘buggy’ patches for Unicode | Mar 30 15:08 |
| Balrog | then the developer moved parts of it to CDDL | Mar 30 15:08 |
| _Hicham_ | then u r answering urself | Mar 30 15:08 |
| Balrog | so there’s CDDL and GPL code linking, not allowed | Mar 30 15:08 |
| Balrog | but the developer is convinced it’s ok | Mar 30 15:08 |
| _Hicham_ | fortunately, it is not firefox’ case | Mar 30 15:13 |
| Balrog | true. | Mar 30 15:13 |
| _Hicham_ | the two cases are not related | Mar 30 15:13 |
| Balrog | yes. But both started with patches that weren’t liked | Mar 30 15:18 |
| oiaohm | Were did debian get the idea GPL program to CDDL lib is a illegal link. | Mar 30 15:22 |
| oiaohm | Sorry its not. | Mar 30 15:22 |
| oiaohm | Other way over is illegal. | Mar 30 15:23 |
| oiaohm | Ie CDDL application linked to a GPL lib. | Mar 30 15:23 |
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| CsharpALL | Eu: e ai!? | Mar 30 15:33 |
| Eu | in english plese | Mar 30 15:42 |
| *CsharpALL is now known as Csh4rpLL | Mar 30 15:43 | |
| Eu | hey guys | Mar 30 15:43 |
| Csh4rpLL | hi | Mar 30 15:45 |
| Eu | Hi ubuntu don’t use the sat solver. I was trying to install Eclipse and I have to install 3 diferents java, and over 640MB | Mar 30 15:48 |
| _Hicham_ | what is the sat solver? | Mar 30 15:56 |
| Csh4rpLL | and what is ubuntu? | Mar 30 15:58 |
| schestowitz | Hey, Csh4rpLL | Mar 30 15:59 |
| zer0c00l | anivar and his mates seems to be stopped a potential university and M$ deal http://cis-india.org/advocacy/floss/blo… | Mar 30 15:59 |
| zer0c00l | he just posted it in fsf india mailing list | Mar 30 16:00 |
| schestowitz | Cool! | Mar 30 16:00 |
| schestowitz | No cigarettes for those kids | Mar 30 16:00 |
| zer0c00l | have to ask anivar what really happened | Mar 30 16:01 |
| zer0c00l | he is not happy about the reply he got | Mar 30 16:02 |
| zer0c00l | even the university i am studying has tied up with M$ | Mar 30 16:02 |
| zer0c00l |  |
Mar 30 16:02 |
| zer0c00l | i too wanna join anivar and fight back against my university | Mar 30 16:03 |
| zer0c00l | roy do you have his email id or something? | Mar 30 16:04 |
| zer0c00l | can i get it | Mar 30 16:04 |
| zer0c00l | seems like they are fighting hard | Mar 30 16:04 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz, what software use for signing emails? i use firegpg its kept crashing my browser | Mar 30 16:08 |
| zer0c00l | *what software you use | Mar 30 16:08 |
| zer0c00l | keep | Mar 30 16:08 |
| Keep pushing for answers, Pranesh Prakash. Demand to know what they are going to sign before it’s a done deal. | Mar 30 16:13 | |
| That “in discussion” line is outrageous. It means they won’t tell you what they want to do before it’s too late to change what they’ve done. | Mar 30 16:13 | |
| Asses. | Mar 30 16:13 | |
| Surely they have working documents they are not ashamed of. | Mar 30 16:14 | |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: yes, I have contact | Mar 30 16:15 |
| zer0c00l | twitter, i agree | Mar 30 16:16 |
| zer0c00l | |
Mar 30 16:16 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: I use enigmail in Thunderbird | Mar 30 16:16 |
| schestowitz | In KNode it’s the KDE standard | Mar 30 16:16 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz: ok | Mar 30 16:17 |
| zer0c00l | i will switch to Thunderbird then | Mar 30 16:17 |
| zer0c00l | its keep crashing firefox (firegpg addon) | Mar 30 16:17 |
| schestowitz | They want their bribes | Mar 30 16:17 |
| schestowitz | Lunch/vacation whatever… | Mar 30 16:17 |
| schestowitz | Like those MS India employees who got caught | Mar 30 16:17 |
| schestowitz | Find out who they are | Mar 30 16:17 |
| zer0c00l | twitter, it happened to my university 2 years back | Mar 30 16:18 |
| schestowitz | They are selling your country to evil colonialists with a proven track record of crime | Mar 30 16:18 |
| zer0c00l | sadly there was no one to oppose | Mar 30 16:18 |
| Lunch, LOL. I’ll sell you all of my students for this tasty tuna salad. | Mar 30 16:18 | |
| schestowitz | Did you see Live @ Edu mail? | Mar 30 16:18 |
| zer0c00l | http://www.hindu.com/2006/06/… | Mar 30 16:19 |
| schestowitz | They use students and give them cheap gadgets to sell out THE WHOLE university | Mar 30 16:19 |
| in BN? Yes, I think I saw something like that. | Mar 30 16:19 | |
| zer0c00l | yes its here | Mar 30 16:19 |
| schestowitz | It’s like giving some chap a weapon to hurt his classmates | Mar 30 16:19 |
| schestowitz | twitter: do a search and you’ll see | Mar 30 16:19 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is worse than Blackwater, I think | Mar 30 16:19 |
| zer0c00l | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/20… | Mar 30 16:19 |
| zer0c00l | twitter, <schestowitz> twitter: do a search and you’ll see | Mar 30 16:19 |
| schestowitz | The difference here that Microsoft doesn’t kill | Mar 30 16:19 |
| sounds like an extension of the M$ Student Ambassador (astroturf) program. | Mar 30 16:20 | |
| schestowitz | Not directly anyway, same with the tobacco industry. | Mar 30 16:20 |
| zer0c00l | twitter, http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… | Mar 30 16:20 |
| schestowitz | MSP… | Mar 30 16:20 |
| *Csh4rpLL (i=c910e07d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a3fa8e91c546f361) has left #boycottnovell | Mar 30 16:20 | |
| schestowitz | That’s what they call it there. | Mar 30 16:20 |
| schestowitz | Europe has these two | Mar 30 16:20 |
| schestowitz | The MS shill programme | Mar 30 16:20 |
| schestowitz | Students jumping for MS dollars and screwing those around them | Mar 30 16:20 |
| schestowitz | Like marketing Vista | Mar 30 16:20 |
| they have to keep changing names to keep the reputation from getting too burnt up. | Mar 30 16:21 | |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | Like “Unlimited Potential” | Mar 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | it’s a fairly new name | Mar 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | It’s “EDGI” | Mar 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | or “WeDGI” | Mar 30 16:21 |
| *zer0c00l is thinking of filing a right to information petition on his university and M$ deal | Mar 30 16:21 | |
| schestowitz | Memoradum of Understand = “Project Marshall” | Mar 30 16:21 |
| zer0c00l | it costs just 10 rupees | Mar 30 16:21 |
| zer0c00l | |
Mar 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | Novell deals and milestones had codenames too | Mar 30 16:21 |
| What’s minimum wage in rupees? | Mar 30 16:23 | |
| zer0c00l | 1 rupee | Mar 30 16:23 |
| zer0c00l |  |
Mar 30 16:23 |
| zer0c00l | you can get two cup of coffee with 10 rupees | Mar 30 16:23 |
| zer0c00l | in my place you can get 3 | Mar 30 16:24 |
| zer0c00l | |
Mar 30 16:24 |
| zer0c00l | http://www.rtiindia.org/guide/how-t… | Mar 30 16:24 |
| Eeeks, that’s 20 cents an hour. The 60 cent coffee sound OK. | Mar 30 16:24 | |
| *mib_r21kl3 (i=8258be83@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-812a0fa442fb85a6) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 30 16:28 | |
| Hmmm, I used to joke about 5 Franc an hour jobs and the lack of motivation that provided. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_franc | Mar 30 16:28 | |
| schestowitz | Economies are uneven | Mar 30 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Exploitation and greed | Mar 30 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Now, if only some stupid lackeys broke the cycle and didn’t sell India to Bill&Steve… | Mar 30 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Find out who’s a traitor to India by doing these treasonous deal that sell students to Microsoft | Mar 30 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft != USA | Mar 30 16:30 |
| schestowitz | It’s a tyranny located in the US | Mar 30 16:30 |
| schestowitz | The US comprises many such provate tyrannies | Mar 30 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Together they can control who gets elected | Mar 30 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Polyarchy | Mar 30 16:31 |
| They loot the locals too, US Government sales are a big revenue generator for them. | Mar 30 16:31 | |
| M$ is a file clerk in the big picture, though. | Mar 30 16:31 | |
| MinceR | corpocracy | Mar 30 16:32 |
| amarsh04 | back later… | Mar 30 16:33 |
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| schestowitz | <MinceR>: different political scientists called it different things | Mar 30 16:38 |
| balzac | kakistocracy | Mar 30 16:54 |
| balzac | corporapracy | Mar 30 16:54 |
| balzac | kleptocracy | Mar 30 16:54 |
| balzac | Poligarchy | Mar 30 16:54 |
| schestowitz | head of OSI just mailed me this: http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordp… | Mar 30 16:55 |
| schestowitz | “Every year, Microsoft adds more “features” to its software” | Mar 30 16:55 |
| balzac | The Open Society Institute or the Open Source Initiative? (jk, I know the answer) | Mar 30 16:56 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac | Mar 30 16:57 |
| _Hicham_ | how r u doing? | Mar 30 16:57 |
| _Hicham_ | balzacocracy | Mar 30 16:57 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : every year, Microsoft keep fucking its customers | Mar 30 16:58 |
| schestowitz | That’c ure of them | Mar 30 16:59 |
| schestowitz | They just try to impregnate the masses with Vista and Mono | Mar 30 16:59 |
| Eu | its costumers keep fucking them selfs | Mar 30 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Fuckicker | Mar 30 17:00 |
| schestowitz | *Conficker | Mar 30 17:00 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : how many people use Monodevelop? | Mar 30 17:01 |
| Eu | because it’s easy | Mar 30 17:01 |
| _Hicham_ | is there any statistics schestowitz? | Mar 30 17:01 |
| balzac | _Hicham_: doing well | Mar 30 17:02 |
| balzac | I’m thinking about starting an import business – importing women from exotic countries… jk | Mar 30 17:02 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : good business | Mar 30 17:02 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : u will get a lot of money | Mar 30 17:03 |
| balzac | well, I think it’ll be simpler to export cams, computers, and live video-encoding software | Mar 30 17:03 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : and have a porn industry of urself | Mar 30 17:03 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : should porn movies use ogg? | Mar 30 17:03 |
| balzac | I’m going to see America’s Top Stripper competition in April | Mar 30 17:04 |
| _Hicham_ | wow, that is very hot balzac | Mar 30 17:04 |
| balzac | I’ll be rooting for a girl from St. Louis with incredible technique and flexibility | Mar 30 17:04 |
| _Hicham_ | is she busty or skinny? | Mar 30 17:04 |
| zer0c00l | lol | Mar 30 17:04 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-168-159.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 30 17:04 | |
| balzac | she is quite nicely proportioned and has a southern accent | Mar 30 17:05 |
| _Hicham_ | then she is probably a latina girl | Mar 30 17:05 |
| balzac | very bright young lady, dark complexion, and as I mentioned, great technique and flexibility | Mar 30 17:05 |
| schestowitz | Had anyone had any USENET experience here? | Mar 30 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Has anything changed recently | Mar 30 17:06 |
| balzac | not much | Mar 30 17:06 |
| balzac | Roy, I think ISPs are freezing USENET out | Mar 30 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Some people I know say that the servers are killed by the MAFIAA | Mar 30 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Yes, the local server at the university was apprently shut down some years ago. | Mar 30 17:06 |
| balzac | ok i’m away until the end of the day. | Mar 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | USENET is not centralised enough for them, so no control over content (censosrship) | Mar 30 17:07 |
| Eu | hey, I don’t understand this Boycott to Novell. Novell is the unique company how really spend money with Opensource Freesoftware. What Canonical, Redhat and others are doing? | Mar 30 17:07 |
| *anivar (n=anivar@117.192.120.229) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 30 17:08 | |
| anivar | schestowitz: hi | Mar 30 17:08 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Mar 30 17:08 |
| schestowitz | I got the copy. | Mar 30 17:08 |
| schestowitz | Marino.. | Mar 30 17:08 |
| anivar | Updates on ODF Award I sent you the mail | Mar 30 17:08 |
| schestowitz | Well, clearly | Mar 30 17:08 |
| schestowitz | Weaseling out. | Mar 30 17:08 |
| schestowitz | ODF is not the same as FOSS | Mar 30 17:09 |
| schestowitz | But he misses the point! | Mar 30 17:09 |
| schestowitz | It’s the FOSS people who adopt ODF | Mar 30 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Esp. in Kerala | Mar 30 17:09 |
| schestowitz | What a joke! | Mar 30 17:09 |
| anivar | Yes. we dropped the open letter plan | Mar 30 17:09 |
| schestowitz | In fact, ODF gains traction largely because of support from FOSS | Mar 30 17:09 |
| schestowitz | many apps are FOSS | Mar 30 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Esp. the successful ones, bar MSO | Mar 30 17:09 |
| schestowitz | anivar: but at least the controversy is public | Mar 30 17:10 |
| schestowitz | So people will know that it wasn’t fairly earned | Mar 30 17:10 |
| anivar | Yea. We will write this n Local media | Mar 30 17:10 |
| schestowitz | The award is nothing big anyway, just eymbolic | Mar 30 17:10 |
| anivar | You can also publish the conversations if needed | Mar 30 17:10 |
| schestowitz | use it as an opportunity–in the media if possible–to talk about FS, not ODF | Mar 30 17:10 |
| schestowitz | anivar: thanks. | Mar 30 17:11 |
| *Eu has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) | Mar 30 17:11 | |
| anivar | It is an opportunity | Mar 30 17:11 |
| fraud street is on the skids today. | Mar 30 17:11 | |
| anivar | We need to push them to release a correct statement | Mar 30 17:11 |
| ODF gains also from Google Docs. | Mar 30 17:12 | |
| Ballmer hates that http://news.slashdot.org/article.p… | Mar 30 17:12 | |
| ha ha | Mar 30 17:12 | |
| anivar | twitter: See the response we got | Mar 30 17:12 |
| anivar | Marino Marcich | Mar 30 17:12 |
| anivar | Hello Arun: Thanks for the feedback. I can appreciate the intense interest in… | Mar 30 17:12 |
| anivar | Mar 30 17:12 | |
| anivar | 7:23 PM (57 minutes ago) | Mar 30 17:12 |
| anivar | Marino MarcichLoading… | Mar 30 17:12 |
| anivar | 7:23 PM (57 minutes ago) | Mar 30 17:12 |
| anivar | Marino Marcich | Mar 30 17:12 |
| anivar | to Arun, me, Anvar, Sasi, Venkatesh, bipasha.chakra., Vimal, Praveen, Santhosh, Sasidharan, Joseph, Biju, Satish, Nagarjuna, Sajith | Mar 30 17:12 |
| anivar | Mar 30 17:13 | |
| anivar | show details 7:23 PM (2 hours ago) | Mar 30 17:13 |
| anivar | Mar 30 17:13 | |
| anivar | Mar 30 17:13 | |
| anivar | Reply to all | Mar 30 17:13 |
| anivar | Mar 30 17:13 | |
| anivar | Mar 30 17:13 | |
| anivar | Hello Arun: Thanks for the feedback. I can appreciate the intense interest in the award given the considerable efforts of so many who helped make the IT@School project a reality. | Mar 30 17:13 |
| anivar | Mar 30 17:13 | |
| anivar | To be considered for the ODF Alliance Award, an individual or entity (project) must first be nominated. Anvar Sadath was nominated and received the award as an individual in recognition of the IT@School project. We did not receive a nomination for the IT@School project itself or any other individual involved in the IT@School project. Regretfully, we are unable to issue awards to people or projects that aren’t nominated. Though there were a numb | Mar 30 17:13 |
| anivar | er of worthy candidates in this category (education) around the world and we regret not being able to recognize their work, we felt and continue to believe that the nomination received for Mr Sadath in recognition of the IT@School project was the best. | Mar 30 17:13 |
| anivar | Mar 30 17:13 | |
| anivar | There was considerable discussion regarding open source in the emails that followed. Please note as well that the award is for work done on ODF, not open source. ODF is not the “OpenOffice format” (while recognizing its origins), nor is it open source or even software for that matter. It is an open standard for document formats that can be implemented in both open source and proprietary software. It is “free” in the sense that it is freely | Mar 30 17:13 |
| anivar | available for implementation and use. Importantly, it comes with the “freedom” to choose from among many implementations, including but not limited to open source, and the freedom to migrate to a different brand of software if desired. | Mar 30 17:13 |
| anivar | Mar 30 17:13 | |
| anivar | We recognize that any significant change of the kind witnessed in Kerala involves a team effort and the actions of hundreds of individuals. This award is a global recognition of the teaching community in Kerala and its many achievements. In the write-up of the project we would be happy to acknowledge the many people involved in this effort. We hope that you and others in this community can share in the award in the spirit in which it was intended | Mar 30 17:13 |
| schestowitz | anivar: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/29… | Mar 30 17:13 |
| anivar | . Sincerely, | Mar 30 17:13 |
| anivar | Mar 30 17:13 | |
| anivar | Marino Marcich | Mar 30 17:13 |
| anivar | ODF Alliance | Mar 30 17:13 |
| schestowitz | anivar: it’s easier for the to justify and move on | Mar 30 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Less work | Mar 30 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Less retraction | Mar 30 17:15 |
| schestowitz | So they’ll perfume their mistake | Mar 30 17:15 |
| schestowitz | The mysql server turns out to have been restarted 4 hours ago, maybe along with the whole server | Mar 30 17:19 |
| anivar | this is my reply | Mar 30 17:20 |
| anivar | Dear Marino, | Mar 30 17:20 |
| anivar | I just want to point time line of IT@school Project & Its ODF Adoption for your clarity . | Mar 30 17:20 |
| anivar | 2004: Free Software Implementation in 8th Standard IT@school Project. Document Standard is sxw . Text books mentions Both Windows & GNU/Linux. IT@school Project Director is Biju Prabhakar . SCERT Started Developing Free Software Only Text Books under the leadership of Satyapalan sir. Software FREE Software Foundation is Training Teachers with the support of Kerala School Teachers Association . IT@school uses a Debian Based Custom Distribution mad | Mar 30 17:20 |
| anivar | e by Vimal Joseph | Mar 30 17:20 |
| anivar | 2005: 9th Standard syllabus Completly moves to Free Software. Text books Only Covers Free Software. Document Standard SXW IT@school Director: Biju Prabhakar IT@School decided to move to new Debian sarge based Distribution. IT@school Initates EDUSAT under the leadership of Biju Prabhakar | Mar 30 17:20 |
| anivar | 2006: 10th stanadrd also migrates to Free Software. New IT@school Distribution based on Debian Sarge included Open Office 2.0 (Which support ODF because of the peer pressure from Teachers) . Texts books were developed by SCERT covers this Change in Curriculam. IT@school Director : Biju Prabhakar ( he is left in 2006 August) SCERT ’s Team head : Satyapalan Sir (retired in May 2006 after the Text book based on new Distribution & ODF i ready) . | Mar 30 17:21 |
| anivar | Next IT@School Director was Sankaranarayanan (short term) and then it was under DPI’s control | Mar 30 17:21 |
| anivar | Anwar Sadath Comes as IT@school director after this.. After all the ODF adoption is happened. Also it is worth to mention that ODF adoption is a Logical Followup of Open Office adoption happened in 2004 | Mar 30 17:21 |
| anivar | Also it is worth to note that Kerala State Issued IT Policy in 2007 which clearly adopted ODF . Kerala Become first state in India adopted this change. Policy discussion were started in 2006 itself. Also Kerala was the only state which wrote to BIS to vote against OOXML in ISO Standardisation Process | Mar 30 17:21 |
| anivar | Based on the above facts you can clealy identify that Anvar does not have any role in ODF adoption too. I consider this as a clear example of how award committees were misleaded by getting partial information. I just want to ask ODF alliance that what ODF related activity you have seen to award Mr. Anvar sadath. | Mar 30 17:21 |
| anivar | I consider the campaign for IT@schools Free Software Adoption (ODF also Comes as a part of that) is something similar to the fight against OOXML in ISO . Alot of people amoung us were part of both of these campaigns . Both vere bottom Up collective eforts by a lot of people without central Coordination Force. Biju Prabhakar & Satyapalan sir understood that spirit in IT@School and facilitated the change. What will be the reponse if someone decide | Mar 30 17:21 |
| anivar | d to award Sun’s CEO for fight againt OOXML . | Mar 30 17:21 |
| anivar | ODF Alliance says you awarded person X for the act A . But Above facts proves that Act ‘A’ was done by another persons Y&Z . X was not on picture for that change. You can provide technical reasons of absence/mistake in Nomination by an ODF alliance member as a face saving reason. But It again points to the credibility of award and the verification of Facts by award commitee. We were trying to raise the issue in front of ODF Alliance because | Mar 30 17:21 |
| anivar | we value the contributions of your Organisation. we consider you act as a responsible organisation, which will take corrective measures, if the nomination sent by one of its member is misleading by providing only partial information. I really appreatiate the positive steps you suggested. I hope arun & Others must have a say on it | Mar 30 17:21 |
| anivar | schestowitz: At first they Jagjith Bhattacharya From ODF alliance responded that they will give award only to individuals | Mar 30 17:22 |
| anivar | then Praveen Pointed the press release of ODF alliance which clearly says “individuals & entities” | Mar 30 17:23 |
| anivar | Now they says technical reasons of nomination | Mar 30 17:23 |
| hmph. | Mar 30 17:24 | |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz, did you see comments section of http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/29… | Mar 30 17:26 |
| schestowitz | anivar: I got your mail. Can I repost this in BN? | Mar 30 17:26 |
| anivar | Ithink it is better to post | Mar 30 17:27 |
| anivar | and make this dicussion as public | Mar 30 17:27 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: yes, I think the guy’s buddies are them to help him | Mar 30 17:27 |
| schestowitz | To save face | Mar 30 17:27 |
| schestowitz | anivar: thank you. | Mar 30 17:27 |
| anivar | just checking comments | Mar 30 17:27 |
| My wife found this the other day. It might not be perfectly appropriate but it’s funny. http://www.youtube.com/w… | Mar 30 17:29 | |
| anivar | A lot of teachers are irritated. But they dont want to show their neck out because anvar have a lot of political influence | Mar 30 17:29 |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 30 17:29 | |
| yes, it’s difficult to get people to stand up for themselves about something they see as so peripheral. | Mar 30 17:30 | |
| schestowitz | anivar: yes, I can imagine… | Mar 30 17:31 |
| zer0c00l | anivar, saw your mail on fsf-friends | Mar 30 17:31 |
| zer0c00l | that RTI petition | Mar 30 17:31 |
| schestowitz | twitter: I hate Nancy Sinatra | Mar 30 17:31 |
| We can’t expect heroism, but we should reward and admire it where we see it and people must realize that they hang together or hang on their own. | Mar 30 17:31 | |
| schestowitz | I like her dad’s music | Mar 30 17:31 |
| who does not? | Mar 30 17:31 | |
| schestowitz | But this b* is lobbying fot the MAFIAA | Mar 30 17:31 |
| schestowitz | She’s working to extend copyrights | Mar 30 17:31 |
| schestowitz | So that she can sit on her bum making money from poppa’s work | Mar 30 17:32 |
| schestowitz | He’s dead | Mar 30 17:32 |
| schestowitz | And it’s not as though she’s poor | Mar 30 17:32 |
| schestowitz | Frickin’ hoarders | Mar 30 17:32 |
| Really? Personally doing that shit or is her name used without permission by the usual MAFIAA contract terms? | Mar 30 17:32 | |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 30 17:33 |
| schestowitz | They love “superstars” | Mar 30 17:33 |
| schestowitz | As RMS puts it | Mar 30 17:33 |
| schestowitz | They don’t ask artists about copyright extension | Mar 30 17:33 |
| schestowitz | They invite some millionaire “superstars” | Mar 30 17:33 |
| schestowitz | IOW, those who decide are a tiny majority of elites | Mar 30 17:33 |
| schestowitz | Not musicians | Mar 30 17:33 |
| schestowitz | Maybe just top 1% | Mar 30 17:33 |
| anivar | zer0c00l: It is a wonderful response | Mar 30 17:34 |
| schestowitz | The assumption is that the richer the singer, the better s/he knows | Mar 30 17:34 |
| ugh, really. http://74.125.95.132/search… | Mar 30 17:34 | |
| anivar | schestowitz: http://cis-india.org/advocacy/floss/bl… | Mar 30 17:35 |
| zer0c00l | anivar, we already discussed | Mar 30 17:35 |
| anivar | this is what zer0c00l tlking about | Mar 30 17:35 |
| anivar | zer0c00l: Thanks | Mar 30 17:35 |
| zer0c00l | single line response | Mar 30 17:36 |
| zer0c00l | i am going to file one against anna university | Mar 30 17:36 |
| anivar | zer0c00l: Yes. But it is a leagal evidence. we sent few more applications | Mar 30 17:36 |
| anivar | CIS is an interesting organsation | Mar 30 17:36 |
| zer0c00l | |
Mar 30 17:36 |
| zer0c00l | http://annauniv-tamilnadu.blogspot.com/ | Mar 30 17:37 |
| zer0c00l | its my blog to fight against proprietary in education | Mar 30 17:37 |
| zer0c00l | http://annauniv-tamilnadu.blogspot.co… | Mar 30 17:37 |
| *conley has quit (“Leaving.”) | Mar 30 17:37 | |
| anivar | schestowitz: Also I feel current award selection process has severe pitfalls-the main one being lack of openness. In future I hope ODF alliance should also adopt a similar policy. It will be good if you can raise it | Mar 30 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Me? | Mar 30 17:38 |
| schestowitz | I don’t want to bother them too much | Mar 30 17:38 |
| *conley (n=ibcliffo@cowcreamer.cs.vt.edu) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 30 17:38 | |
| anivar | schestowitz: Ok then we will do it | Mar 30 17:38 |
| anivar | zer0c00l: I know NRC FOSS very vell | Mar 30 17:39 |
| zer0c00l | oh | Mar 30 17:39 |
| zer0c00l | anivar, you with them | Mar 30 17:39 |
| anivar | AU-KBC centre works better than the CDAC centre | Mar 30 17:39 |
| zer0c00l | |
Mar 30 17:39 |
| zer0c00l | oh | Mar 30 17:39 |
| zer0c00l | but i got frustrated as they are still keeping foss as an elective | Mar 30 17:40 |
| anivar | zer0c00l: I am not with anyone. But there are 2 NRC fOSS . One is CDACs ISON south asia node | Mar 30 17:40 |
| zer0c00l | and they failed to stop the deal between M$ and anna university | Mar 30 17:40 |
| anivar | which releases BOSS ., They are just eating public money and produces nothing | Mar 30 17:40 |
| zer0c00l | BOSS==CRAP | Mar 30 17:40 |
| zer0c00l | yes | Mar 30 17:40 |
| zer0c00l | anivar, i agree | Mar 30 17:40 |
| anivar | zer0c00l: AU-KBC is comparatively better because they atleast do something and have a link with community in some way | Mar 30 17:41 |
| zer0c00l | yes , kenneth gonsalves is a contributer | Mar 30 17:41 |
| zer0c00l | he is from AU-KBC | Mar 30 17:41 |
| anivar | Kenneth does the community linkages in better way. But they inherits the problems of beurocratic setup | Mar 30 17:42 |
| anivar | Their Project was over in Last september. All Funds were finsihsed and Most of the employees left | Mar 30 17:42 |
| zer0c00l | oh | Mar 30 17:42 |
| anivar | and they closed down. This year they got funds for next 3 years | Mar 30 17:43 |
| zer0c00l | but he usually pull people into flame war in mailing list and mostly he attacks people personally | Mar 30 17:43 |
| zer0c00l | i hate that | Mar 30 17:43 |
| zer0c00l | i would like to show you a ilug-c mailing list archive | Mar 30 17:43 |
| zer0c00l | yes | Mar 30 17:43 |
| zer0c00l | anivar, i heard about that | Mar 30 17:43 |
| schestowitz | twitter might be interested in this thing someone mailed me: “Ballmer keynote address — [Bobby Johnson gets a man.crush on SteveO ] | Mar 30 17:45 |
| schestowitz | ‘Among the more significant changes, however, was a new distribution deal with computer manufacturer Dell. The deal will see a slew of Microsoft products – including Windows Live search – pre-loaded onto all consumer machines from the Texan PC maker’ | Mar 30 17:45 |
| schestowitz | [The Google killer don't ya think, MS finally embed MS.search into the OS and apps. Will there be a MS.search toolbar in all the apps. I don't know. Download and take a look. | Mar 30 17:45 |
| schestowitz | It's the one real 'innovation' MS ever did invernt themselves, how to leverage the Windows to give their own stuff pre-eminence on their desktop, to the detriment of the other players. They can collect what crumbs that fall from the table. | Mar 30 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Personally I see the PC as obsolete, we should have all moved onto embedded solutions, running what ever OS and GUI that all talk to each other through truly open protocols.] | Mar 30 17:45 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/vi… The man looks jaded, nothing as pathetic as an over-the-hill trying to act young. When are they going to figure out that there’s is no wizard behind the curtain. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/200… “ | Mar 30 17:45 |
| anivar | zer0c00l: But he have some genuine . Dont target personally. Appreciate work. | Mar 30 17:45 |
| zer0c00l | yes he is a python genius | Mar 30 17:45 |
| zer0c00l | i stopped writing in that blog | Mar 30 17:46 |
| anivar | we all involve in Flame wars. it is because we believes deeply into something | Mar 30 17:46 |
| zer0c00l | http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/pipermail/… | Mar 30 17:46 |
| anivar | zer0c00l: I have to leave now | Mar 30 17:47 |
| *anivar is leaving | Mar 30 17:47 | |
| zer0c00l | ok | Mar 30 17:47 |
| zer0c00l | anivar, | Mar 30 17:47 |
| zer0c00l | bye | Mar 30 17:47 |
| zer0c00l | cya | Mar 30 17:47 |
| zer0c00l | nice chatting with you | Mar 30 17:47 |
| *anivar has quit (“Ex-Chat”) | Mar 30 17:48 | |
| schestowitz | Lies, damned lies and inflation statistics < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200… > | Mar 30 17:50 |
| schestowitz | here is the bully who is giving vmware to Microsoft: EMC’s next CEO – a Tucci subject < http://www.theregister.co.uk/20… > | Mar 30 17:50 |
| schestowitz | TomTom sells out: http://news.cnet.com/8301-138… | Mar 30 17:52 |
| zer0c00l | g2g | Mar 30 17:56 |
| zer0c00l | bye | Mar 30 17:57 |
| *zer0c00l has quit (“Leaving”) | Mar 30 17:57 | |
| Balrog | schestowitz: not good at all | Mar 30 17:57 |
| Balrog | any comments? | Mar 30 17:58 |
| balzac | I noticed someone with the pseudonym paulgask1n in my ##bawd channel | Mar 30 17:58 |
| balzac | some chump was trying to stress me | Mar 30 17:58 |
| balzac | but I’ve already disclosed my identity here on freenode, in this channel, on every blog I blog as “balzac” | Mar 30 17:59 |
