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04.03.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 2nd, 2009 – Part 3

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:45 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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MinceR oiaohm: is there any company on earth whose conduct you disapprove of? :> Apr 02 13:38
Narcissus let me put it simply for you. Apr 02 13:38
schestowitz WordPress does not comments Apr 02 13:39
Narcissus Stop doing whatever you are doing to WordPress blogs. Apr 02 13:39
Narcissus It is not useful. Apr 02 13:39
Narcissus It is just annoying. Apr 02 13:39
schestowitz I’m not doing anything to them Apr 02 13:39
Narcissus *sigh* Apr 02 13:39
schestowitz Are you talking about pingbacks? Apr 02 13:39
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schestowitz WordPress pings cited blogs when a new post is made Apr 02 13:39
schestowitz Like me… I get notified when a blog links to us Apr 02 13:40
schestowitz That’s how it functions Apr 02 13:40
Narcissus I don’t get notifications. I get comments. Apr 02 13:40
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Narcissus 90% of which are porn-spam. Apr 02 13:40
schestowitz From this IP?? Apr 02 13:40
oiaohm MinceR: when they do illegal I disapprove of.  When they break clearly define terms then I have grounds to disapprove as well. Apr 02 13:40
schestowitz Narcissus: how long has this gone on for? Apr 02 13:40
Narcissus schestowitz: from that and about 30 other IP’s Apr 02 13:40
oiaohm Problem is the different define of evil is just a person point of view. Apr 02 13:40
Narcissus schestowitz: about a month Apr 02 13:40
Narcissus I have also had innumerous amount of spam on a forum of mine containing similar content on the same subnet Apr 02 13:41
schestowitz Could there be another site on the same IP? Apr 02 13:41
Narcissus No Apr 02 13:41
oiaohm Solution is a more clear define what is normally regulations on the industiry to protect end users MinceR.  Not exactly hating google.  There are a lot more in the same field doing worse. Apr 02 13:42
MinceR oiaohm: what if they took over your country and changed the law? Apr 02 13:42
Narcissus I own the IP address of my blog. Apr 02 13:42
MinceR s/law/laws/ Apr 02 13:42
schestowitz http://72.29.75.151/ -> Apache is working on your cPanel Apr 02 13:42
MinceR say, enslaving you legally? :> Apr 02 13:42
*schestowitz looking at site Apr 02 13:44
schestowitz Narcissus: I’m checking to see if there is something awry in my homedir Apr 02 13:44
oiaohm MinceR: How can they do that if people resist it.   Force but to use force you need  people to follow.   Evil does not happen in lots of cases without other people letting it. Apr 02 13:44
schestowitz I’ve always run fully patched WordPress Apr 02 13:44
oiaohm Its like the evil of lending houses without any real requirement to pay back that blew up. Apr 02 13:45
schestowitz And I can’t find any indication of anything nasty Apr 02 13:45
oiaohm That could only happen due to lack of regulation MinceR. Apr 02 13:45
MinceR oiaohm: most people don’t resist Apr 02 13:45
oiaohm No point hating google if you are not pushing for the correct regulation. Apr 02 13:45
MinceR if you religiously believe in laws, that is. Apr 02 13:46
oiaohm No I believe in the force of the people. Apr 02 13:46
oiaohm We only get what we accept. Apr 02 13:46
oiaohm Over time people have got less likely to stand up for better. Apr 02 13:47
Narcissus /5 Apr 02 13:48
oiaohm Most people are really a decrace to there family trees. Apr 02 13:49
MinceR so of all the people, on the lawyers matter? :> Apr 02 13:50
MinceR s/on/only/ Apr 02 13:50
oiaohm Remember the earlies legal systems did not have lawyers they are a latter invention to help people who cannot produce good arguements. Apr 02 13:51
schestowitz Narcissus: I can’t find any reason Apr 02 13:51
oiaohm Everything over time has got tainted from what is goals were. Apr 02 13:51
oiaohm Even lots of my reletations have let it happen MinceR. Apr 02 13:52
schestowitz If I could, I would do something about it. What do you reckon is happening? Apr 02 13:52
MinceR well, you can see where the glorious legal system has lead our society. Apr 02 13:52
schestowitz Middlemen for talking Apr 02 13:53
MinceR and since laws perfectly define what is Good, there’s no reason ever to change them, right? Apr 02 13:53
schestowitz And you otherwise looked down upon if you don’t hire one Apr 02 13:53
oiaohm I never said laws are perfect. Apr 02 13:53
schestowitz Or you must face a professional spinner Apr 02 13:53
Narcissus I believe that there is some kind of spam botnet, that may or may not be, directly targetting my blog for spamming purposes. It’s not actually doing anything. It’s just annoying me. Apr 02 13:53
MinceR yet you only consider laws to determine what is right Apr 02 13:53
schestowitz But it ‘makes’ jobs Apr 02 13:54
MinceR schestowitz: and they’ve made themselves indispensable. Apr 02 13:54
schestowitz Narcissus: I appreciate you raising this Apr 02 13:54
oiaohm No we as a people determin what is right.  Laws are ment to exist to enforce what is right. Apr 02 13:54
oiaohm Over time that has been lost. Apr 02 13:54
schestowitz This would, under some circumstances, suggest that this shared server was maybe compromised Apr 02 13:54
MinceR now we have a system that isn’t one bit more right than it ever was, but at least we get to pay lawyers in the process. Apr 02 13:54
schestowitz But I fail to see evidence of this and I’m still looking Apr 02 13:54
schestowitz It’s a shared host Apr 02 13:54
schestowitz We’ve always had software up to date and never any problem, which leaves me wondering where to look. Apr 02 13:55
oiaohm Current system is more likely to give incorrect judgements than than some of the old systems. Apr 02 13:55
oiaohm Simple due to the cost. Apr 02 13:55
schestowitz MinceR: same with the patent system and lawyers Apr 02 13:55
MinceR and that’s exactly why it’s wrong to define “good := legal” Apr 02 13:55
oiaohm Old days going before a king or something cost nothing. Apr 02 13:55
schestowitz You can’t write a patent on your own ‘invention’ Apr 02 13:55
schestowitz People make a fortune out of people who THINK they defend themselves Apr 02 13:56
MinceR so you can’t really just follow laws to fulfill the goal of “do no evil” Apr 02 13:56
schestowitz Winners: lawyers, trolls, monopolies Apr 02 13:56
schestowitz Losers: inventors, SMEs, productivity Apr 02 13:56
schestowitz MinceR: they dropped do no evil Apr 02 13:56
schestowitz I think Apr 02 13:56
schestowitz The Asay fanboi wrote about it the other day Apr 02 13:56
schestowitz Something about them getting more evil. Apr 02 13:57
oiaohm If a clear define of what is evil is not made by people google and others cannot correctly follow the do no evil without getting it wrong for some people and right for others. Apr 02 13:57
Narcissus Okay, thank you for looking into this schestowitz. I will continue to search around. Apr 02 13:57
MinceR asay has his own fanboys now? Apr 02 13:57
MinceR it’s very meta Apr 02 13:57
schestowitz Narcissus: please keep in touch Apr 02 13:57
schestowitz Like, if you find out what’s happening Apr 02 13:57
schestowitz I see that your site is pretty new Apr 02 13:57
schestowitz Comment spam is normal Apr 02 13:57
oiaohm Regulation is normally about writing clear defines to be followed then enforcing them. Apr 02 13:57
schestowitz Maybe I state the obvious, so pardon me Apr 02 13:57
schestowitz BoycottNovell gets lots of spam per day Apr 02 13:57
MinceR oiaohm: they’re so far from “no evil” that the problem you’re talking about isn’t even close. Apr 02 13:58
schestowitz I don’t even bother chasing it, I just delete it Apr 02 13:58
MinceR and one can’t codify a general decision for everything in advance Apr 02 13:58
oiaohm What do you class that good does that is evil MinceR Apr 02 13:58
MinceR that’s why laws are doomed to fail Apr 02 13:58
oiaohm good/google Apr 02 13:58
schestowitz MinceR: Asay is well respected in the “open source” (i.e. MAc+Safari+community edition on some server) community Apr 02 13:58
MinceR the solution is simple: make informed decisions _with good intentions_. Apr 02 13:58
oiaohm Not trying will for sure fail. Apr 02 13:59
schestowitz Sorry, that was poorly phrased Apr 02 13:59
schestowitz But you get the picture. To them, “Linux” is “Cheap” and OSS is a marketing routine Apr 02 13:59
MinceR schestowitz: oh, the Please Steal Our Code, Steve Jobs! community. Apr 02 13:59
oiaohm Problem becomes again good intentions from who point of view. Apr 02 13:59
schestowitz Not really Apr 02 13:59
schestowitz he doesn’t advocate BSD Apr 02 13:59
schestowitz But he shelteres Apple as though it’s a OSS company Apr 02 14:00
MinceR oh, so it’s only “open source” to the extent of FLOSS works they’ve ripped off. Apr 02 14:00
MinceR the classic apple “you’ve done everything for us, now die!” viewpoint of FLOSS. Apr 02 14:00
schestowitz Microsoft has just found an answer to Google: brainwash. http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-mic… Apr 02 14:01
schestowitz Financial crisis explained using an analogy: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive… Apr 02 14:02
MinceR i hope m$ won’t merge with the cult of $cientology :> Apr 02 14:02
schestowitz Why not? Apr 02 14:03
schestowitz You can then hit two birds with one stone Apr 02 14:03
schestowitz Remember that Microsoft says “Jihad” when it refers to competition. Gates says Jihad too Apr 02 14:03
oiaohm Its like the guy running Auschwitz killing jews painlessly with gas was not evil compared to his other options.  Refuse die and have someone else do it,  Kill them painfully.  MinceR. Apr 02 14:03
MinceR and hitler was good once he seized power, since he could do everything legally Apr 02 14:04
MinceR right? Apr 02 14:04
oiaohm Evil is completely linked to your point of view at the time you make judgement. Apr 02 14:04
oiaohm No MinceR Apr 02 14:04
oiaohm Without population support Hitler could not have done anything. Apr 02 14:05
MinceR so he’s innocent Apr 02 14:05
MinceR that’s new Apr 02 14:05
oiaohm No Apr 02 14:05
oiaohm Hitler is not innocent. Apr 02 14:05
oiaohm But neither are the people who followed him. Apr 02 14:05
MinceR it’s not like people can be mislead Apr 02 14:05
MinceR or lied to, or confused Apr 02 14:05
MinceR schestowitz: they’d be too powerful together Apr 02 14:06
oiaohm Again why can that happen MinceR Apr 02 14:06
oiaohm Everyone has a little evil in them to look after number 1. Apr 02 14:06
oiaohm Humans are really a poor creature.  We love blaming the leader yet never taking responablity for putting him/her there in the first place. Apr 02 14:08
schestowitz Now that IDG has created a Linux blog it appointed a man who enjots flinging crap at it. Approved by MS? http://www.pcworld.com/article/162… Apr 02 14:09
schestowitz Hitler had resistance whom he killed Apr 02 14:09
schestowitz Or threatened, or drove away Apr 02 14:10
schestowitz    > oiaohm> Humans are really a poor creature.  We love blaming the leader yet never taking responablity for putting him/her there in the first place. Apr 02 14:10
MinceR there’s a huge difference between “a little evil” and what’s google doing. Apr 02 14:10
schestowitz That’s a simplified view Apr 02 14:10
schestowitz Population can hardly access the publiuc arena Apr 02 14:10
oiaohm MinceR: a little evil from a lot of people can add up quickly into a very big evil MinceR. Apr 02 14:11
schestowitz But it’s true that there is no moral value in just critising what WAS Apr 02 14:11
MinceR oiaohm: yes, with proper leadership. :> Apr 02 14:11
schestowitz Whilst having no morality to PROTEST against the murder of Iraquis right now. Apr 02 14:11
schestowitz Iraqis Apr 02 14:11
schestowitz So people have to take responsibility also for acts of implicit endorsement Apr 02 14:11
schestowitz That’s why I support the people who cause chaos in G20 and LSE Apr 02 14:12
schestowitz They actually give a face to the public Apr 02 14:12
schestowitz Showing the politicians we ain’t a bunch of marionettes like they view us :-) Apr 02 14:12
schestowitz Same with Novell BTW Apr 02 14:12
schestowitz To push this on topic Apr 02 14:12
schestowitz Watch Linus Apr 02 14:12
schestowitz Cowardice AFAICT Apr 02 14:12
schestowitz He fears talking about politics Apr 02 14:13
schestowitz So he snubs  and alienates GNU and RMS Apr 02 14:13
schestowitz Then, he refuses to criticise Novell Apr 02 14:13
schestowitz He is being ‘diplomatic’ (meaning he puts money before personal believes and ethics) Apr 02 14:13
schestowitz Good fit for IBM and other moochers Apr 02 14:13
schestowitz That’s why they call it “Linux”, to repeat what I wrote in Bn this morning Apr 02 14:14
oiaohm Everyone has a little evil even you at times schestowitz Apr 02 14:14
ToreadorVampire schestowitz> Woah, “Microsoft has just found an answer to Google: brainwash.”  Advertising != “brainwash” – be careful of your word choice there :p Apr 02 14:14
schestowitz They like you as long as you sing “heil sieg heil” to the sound of the Federal Reserve at al. Apr 02 14:14
schestowitz Consumption and all… Apr 02 14:14
schestowitz I don’t want to step on the Law here… Apr 02 14:15
schestowitz (Godwin) Apr 02 14:15
schestowitz ToreadorVampire: it is Apr 02 14:15
schestowitz In a away Apr 02 14:15
schestowitz Advertising is propaganda Apr 02 14:15
schestowitz =PR (new name for it) Apr 02 14:15
schestowitz Brainwash and propaganda are similar, one is gentler Apr 02 14:16
schestowitz Brain wash… doesn’t mean removal of memories but also insertions of some Apr 02 14:16
MinceR schestowitz: oiaohm has already triggered that Law. Apr 02 14:16
schestowitz Umberlla might be “mind control” Apr 02 14:16
schestowitz Microsoft, internal document: “Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input.  Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them.  Thus, you control mindshare!” Apr 02 14:16
schestowitz From Comes vs MS: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content… Apr 02 14:16
oiaohm Funny that IDC are trying to start a new Linux hate point up.  Current Linux Hater and redux are slowing down in there posts. Apr 02 14:17
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, IDC must get some traffic or die Apr 02 14:17
schestowitz So it provokes Linux users Apr 02 14:17
schestowitz And firefox too Apr 02 14:17
ToreadorVampire Hmm, but by that token it’s not too hard to apply the “propaganda” label to the whole of BN :s Apr 02 14:17
schestowitz Remember the “Firefox is already dead” utter BS? Apr 02 14:17
schestowitz Sure, sure.. Firefox still gaining… but IDG would tell you that “it’s already dead” Apr 02 14:17
schestowitz And some people fed those trolls Apr 02 14:17
schestowitz ToreadorVampire: the press too Apr 02 14:18
schestowitz The mistake is making a distinction Apr 02 14:18
schestowitz Between brainwash, information, marketing, mind control… Apr 02 14:18
schestowitz It’s like comparing the words “good”, “excellent”, “splendid”, “superb” and “fantastic” Apr 02 14:19
MinceR IDG is already dead. ;) Apr 02 14:19
ToreadorVampire Right – but … what I’m trying to say is that you have applied a negative term to an activity that Microsoft is taking … Apr 02 14:19
schestowitz MinceR: yes, that’s why it calls other things dead Apr 02 14:19
ToreadorVampire … yet that activity is basically the same as your primary activity Apr 02 14:19
schestowitz They’ll kill their credibility (already low) this way Apr 02 14:19
ToreadorVampire … which in my dictionary shares a definition with “shooting yourself in the foot” Apr 02 14:19
schestowitz Then we can treat them like The Register Apr 02 14:19
schestowitz Or even the “Gutter press” which is THE Inquirer (they call themselves gutter press) Apr 02 14:20
oiaohm MinceR remember the saying Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.   Problem is no matter how good intentioned you start out.  Over time absolute power can eat up all your good sides. Apr 02 14:20
schestowitz ToreadorVampire: I did apply it negatively because I perceive it as such Apr 02 14:20
schestowitz Marketing is a junk market Apr 02 14:20
schestowitz And it’s excempt from tax Apr 02 14:20
MinceR power only corrupts if you aren’t ready to handle it properly Apr 02 14:20
schestowitz It’s more useless than lawyers Apr 02 14:21
MinceR most humans aren’t. Apr 02 14:21
schestowitz A one-trillion-dollar/year industry in the US Apr 02 14:21
MinceR “power corrupts. absolute power is kind of neat.” Apr 02 14:21
schestowitz Well, USED to be… prior to bubble collapsing Apr 02 14:21
schestowitz Marketing is a case of PEOPLE PAYING TO BE DECEIVED Apr 02 14:21
schestowitz MinceR: hehe Apr 02 14:21
schestowitz Murdoch knows Apr 02 14:21
schestowitz Maybe he’ll drown in a tub somewhere.. Apr 02 14:22
MinceR :) Apr 02 14:22
oiaohm MinceR: how do you pick a person who can have absolute power and not be consumed by it. Apr 02 14:22
schestowitz He helped the mass killing of many people. Apr 02 14:22
MinceR oiaohm: it isn’t trivial Apr 02 14:22
schestowitz But he kills with the pen and the ink Apr 02 14:22
schestowitz Or word or mouth Apr 02 14:22
MinceR i’d pick myself, i might be able to handle it… though that might consist mostly of inaction. Apr 02 14:22
oiaohm It is really.  A person who truly does not want the power in the first place MinceR. Apr 02 14:22
schestowitz Not with the guns… that they have stupid 19-year-olds to do Apr 02 14:23
oiaohm When you think about the political system its all about getting the wrong type. Apr 02 14:23
MinceR oiaohm: i’m not sure that in itself would be sufficient Apr 02 14:23
schestowitz Send em to Iraq… to fight for the 9/11 victims (never mind if Iraq and its children had nothing to do with ti) Apr 02 14:23
oiaohm If you don’t want it you don’t use it unless it has to be MinceR Apr 02 14:23
MinceR or not even then Apr 02 14:24
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MinceR or you’re changed by getting it despite not wanting it in the first place. Apr 02 14:24
oiaohm Its basically the first test. Apr 02 14:24
oiaohm If a person wants the power they are not there to use it. Apr 02 14:24
oiaohm For good. Apr 02 14:24
schestowitz “The former director and CEO of now defunct sports betting site BetonSports.com has pleaded guilty to racketeering charges related to running an illegal gambling operation and using money from customer accounts to support its operations, the U.S. Department of Justice announced.”  http://www.pcworld.com/article/162435/… Apr 02 14:25
schestowitz bring our the GI…. Ballmer Apr 02 14:25
schestowitz *Out Apr 02 14:25
MinceR but the ballmer’s sleeping. Apr 02 14:26
oiaohm Its like giving a person unlimited money without them having to ever learn to manage it.   A person who stays rich respects money and the power it gives them.  Greed for power is a deadly sin. Apr 02 14:26
schestowitz The DHS became a department of Microsoft after they had appointed Microsoft o head it, under BSA pressure (employees of BIll Gates’ dad): http://www.pcworld.com/article/162433/dhs… Apr 02 14:27
oiaohm In the sence that normally people do end up dead because of it. Apr 02 14:27
oiaohm Think about if I could give you the power to recraete the world any way you saw fit any numbers of times you liked how tempting the more you used it would it be to abuse it for not important things MinceR. Apr 02 14:28
oiaohm It not exactly having abolute power that destroys the person its using it. Apr 02 14:29
schestowitz The Linux Foundation is now getting its own distro: http://www.pcworld.com/article/162429/in… Apr 02 14:30
MinceR oiaohm: i don’t see what’s wrong with that Apr 02 14:30
MinceR i could create multiple different copies beside each other, could i not? Apr 02 14:30
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schestowitz The Shill Shane O’Neill has just published “Waiting for Windows 7″ in IDG Apr 02 14:31
schestowitz Maybe I should toss all the IDG feeds already Apr 02 14:31
schestowitz It’s appalling Apr 02 14:31
MinceR indeed Apr 02 14:31
schestowitz I can use the time to stalk other news sources, just as I dumped CNET Apr 02 14:32
schestowitz They are all Microsoft fan press and it gets worse over time Apr 02 14:32
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schestowitz Maybe they just need the money and writing truth (as opposed to marketing) doesn’t pay Apr 02 14:32
schestowitz OK, done. IDG in the garbage can now. It had links 100 articles a day Apr 02 14:33
schestowitz The Register might get erased next because they have Microsoft turncoats like Kelly and Gavin Clarke inside Apr 02 14:33
oiaohm Other problem people forget is people like hilter are made. Apr 02 14:33
MinceR the only thing i read on Reg is BOFH Apr 02 14:34
MinceR oiaohm: they’re born? :> Apr 02 14:34
oiaohm Hilter went out of his way to cover up his abused past. Apr 02 14:35
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oiaohm Hilter is a great example why child abuse should not be allowed happen. Apr 02 14:35
mib_mmt9vs hjhj Apr 02 14:35
schestowitz Hi, mib_mmt9vs Apr 02 14:35
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oiaohm You can alter a person mercy to others with it MinceR Apr 02 14:35
schestowitz Hehe. Apr 02 14:36
schestowitz Someone came to BN IRC Apr 02 14:36
schestowitz First line was about “hitler” Apr 02 14:36
schestowitz You scared him away, oiaohm Apr 02 14:36
MinceR nope, it was about “hilter” ;) Apr 02 14:36
schestowitz Yes Apr 02 14:36
schestowitz Typing habits Apr 02 14:36
schestowitz I didn’t notice p Apr 02 14:36
schestowitz People watch first and last letters mostly. Apr 02 14:36
oiaohm I had a repeating typo. Apr 02 14:37
MinceR we have a minister called “Hiller” Apr 02 14:37
MinceR iirc he’s the one who sends billions of forints to microsoft. Apr 02 14:37
MinceR from the taxpayers’ money. Apr 02 14:37
oiaohm We had one poor kid in my school that had the name for real Wat Hill Apr 02 14:38
MinceR “Do they speak English in What?” Apr 02 14:38
Omar87 Alright guys, I’m back. Apr 02 14:41
Omar87 So, what kind of evil are you talking about when it comes to Google? Apr 02 14:42
Omar87 -By the way, I’m not defending Google itself, but I’m just curious- Apr 02 14:42
MinceR eroding web standards, supporting censorship, helping out the MAFIAA, etc. Apr 02 14:42
schestowitz Someone whom I don’t know just mailed me this: http://www.slideshare.net/Innovan… Apr 02 14:42
schestowitz MinceR: you’re European, you’ll be interested I thinkl Apr 02 14:43
oiaohm eroding what web standards. Apr 02 14:45
oiaohm chrome follows standards closely. Apr 02 14:45
MinceR all their webapps are aimed at specific browsers Apr 02 14:45
MinceR google maps randomly breaks on opera Apr 02 14:45
MinceR picasa reliably breaks in opera and tells me i should use another browser Apr 02 14:46
oiaohm and have you tried doing something like that in pure standard code. Apr 02 14:46
MinceR this is not what web standards are about Apr 02 14:46
MinceR something like what? novel ideas like the <img> element? Apr 02 14:46
oiaohm Only to find out no browsers run it. Apr 02 14:46
oiaohm Those moving frame bits google does is allowed. Apr 02 14:47
oiaohm by standard. Apr 02 14:47
oiaohm So there is a little more there.  Its not just standard following. Apr 02 14:48
oiaohm What google does in a few pushs web engines into there weak points. Apr 02 14:48
schestowitz oiaohm: Google spreads Flash and ActiveCX Apr 02 14:48
schestowitz also DirectX Apr 02 14:49
oiaohm They are a point of view if you class them as evil.  I know a lot of MS people who don’t class either Active X or Direct X as evil. Apr 02 14:49
MinceR what google does is target specific web browsers and throws you out if you dare use something else Apr 02 14:50
oiaohm Flash is also not classed by some groups as evil. Apr 02 14:50
MinceR well, surprise surprise, some people are wrong. Apr 02 14:50
oiaohm This is what I am getting at. Apr 02 14:50
MinceR oh, and this web policy will only get worse once chrome spreads Apr 02 14:50
MinceR they’ll lock firefox users out too Apr 02 14:50
MinceR if they have their way, chrome will be the new IE Apr 02 14:51
oiaohm You are aware that IE is still not certifed for secure transations. Apr 02 14:53
oiaohm It had certification and it lost it. Apr 02 14:53
MinceR but chrome does and that’s all that matters and because of this everyone should use chrome? Apr 02 14:53
oiaohm So does firefox Apr 02 14:54
oiaohm So does konq Apr 02 14:54
schestowitz http://www.itwire.com/content/view/24218/1023/ < NSW schools OLPC program to present a $600 million bill for taxpayers > Shitobe is in it too Apr 02 14:54
oiaohm Even safari has cert. Apr 02 14:54
oiaohm Opera has not gone through the modern day process.  Of a code audit to get it. Apr 02 14:55
MinceR you seem to be confusing “web standards” with “secure transactions”. Apr 02 14:56
MinceR they are two different things. Apr 02 14:56
schestowitz More Worries About UK Libel Laws Leading To ‘Defamation Tourism’ < http://techdirt.com/articles/2009… > Apr 02 14:57
oiaohm In this case both are needed for most of googles applications. Apr 02 14:57
MinceR i’m sure google maps and picasa both need them direly. Apr 02 14:57
MinceR and actual security doesn’t matter, only the certification Apr 02 14:58
schestowitz The Inquirer is dying. Apr 02 15:01
schestowitz Nick Farrell is almost the only person posting Apr 02 15:02
schestowitz The Register is taken over by MS-sympathetic lackeys. Apr 02 15:02
schestowitz NPD ANALYSTS at DisplaySearch reckon sales of netbooks will grow by 65 per cent, this year. < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n… >. NPD measures US-only figures in a Microsoft-flattering way Apr 02 15:04
schestowitz Channel stuffing included in the figures, exclusion of small players, etc. Apr 02 15:05
schestowitz like amd-linux said yesterday: “YouTube yanks music videos from German site” < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/02… > Apr 02 15:06
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schestowitz This can’t be true. Microsoft says Vista is a smashing suckcess: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/0… (Texas senator wants to ban Vista purchases) Apr 02 15:08
oiaohm http://www.premier.nsw.gov.au/Newsroom/Ar…  What do you know someone released real news on april 1. Apr 02 15:10
oiaohm That is going to destroy lots of businesses that deal. Apr 02 15:14
schestowitz Yes, did you see  http://www.itwire.com/conte… < NSW schools OLPC program to present a $600 million bill for taxpayers > Apr 02 15:14
schestowitz It’s like selling the country out Apr 02 15:14
schestowitz Smoking in the Movies: Under-the-Radar Cigarette Advertising? < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8311 > Apr 02 15:16
schestowitz http://www.prwatch.org/node/8310 “Local television stations are increasingly open to product placement. The Meredith Corporation’s “syndicated hour-long lifestyle program ‘Better’ (named in part after the company’s Better Homes & Gardens magazine)” includes space for local stations to add in sponsored segments. The “three-to-five minute videos” have pushed products related to “child-care topics such as baby-proofing the home, inst Apr 02 15:19
schestowitz alling a car seat and visiting the doctor,” for sponsors including State Farm Insurance, General Mills, General Electric, Johnson & Johnson and Kimberly-Clark.” Apr 02 15:19
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oiaohm schestowitz: same artical I chased it to goverment source. Apr 02 15:22
schestowitz I posted information in BN Apr 02 15:25
schestowitz Including backgound Apr 02 15:25
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/01/… Apr 02 15:26
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schestowitz MinceR: Google shakes hand with MAFIAA: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/01… Apr 02 15:27
MinceR hilight oiaohm about that :> Apr 02 15:28
MinceR i don’t see a lot about google there Apr 02 15:29
schestowitz Wrong paste. http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/ent… Apr 02 15:33
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twitter Texas to ban Vista, ha ha, http://slashdot.org/fire… Apr 02 16:22
twitter saw the link to M$’s continued Slog against Google and their funding of publisher’s lawsuits.  Don’t think Wikipedia will get any Encarta content at that rate. Apr 02 16:23
schestowitz Seen it, thanks. Apr 02 16:25
zoobab01 can someone help dump this stream: Apr 02 16:25
zoobab01 http://judiciary.senate.gov/web… Apr 02 16:25
zoobab01 you need the win32 codecs Apr 02 16:25
schestowitz I can never do Real. twitter ? Apr 02 16:25
schestowitz zoobab01: I only have bad codecs in Kaffeine Apr 02 16:25
zoobab01 mplayer Apr 02 16:26
schestowitz I don’t think I have it Apr 02 16:26
schestowitz What’s the webcast about? Apr 02 16:26
schestowitz ‘reform’? Apr 02 16:26
zoobab01 there are nice videos about swpats on media.ffii.org/EvalSwPat090319 Apr 02 16:26
zoobab01 yes “reform” Apr 02 16:26
zoobab01 replacing P&L by R&D Apr 02 16:26
zoobab01 :-) Apr 02 16:26
schestowitz Poor trolls… Apr 02 16:29
schestowitz The deform will make them bankrupt Apr 02 16:29
zoobab01 nope Apr 02 16:29
zoobab01 it will have no effect at all Apr 02 16:29
schestowitz Even better Apr 02 16:29
schestowitz So no-one gets upset Apr 02 16:29
schestowitz Except those who were already upset Apr 02 16:29
zoobab01 so trolls mosquitoes will continue to bite Apr 02 16:29
Omar87 schestowitz: Is IBM really going to swallow Novell? Apr 02 16:30
schestowitz Omar87: maybe Apr 02 16:30
schestowitz Not yet Apr 02 16:30
Omar87 schestowitz: If that ever happens, I believe M$ will then simply become naked. Apr 02 16:31
Balrog hello everyone Apr 02 16:31
Omar87 Balrog: Hi Apr 02 16:31
schestowitz Hi, Balrog Apr 02 16:34
Omar87 schestowitz: What do you think> Apr 02 16:37
Omar87 ? Apr 02 16:37
schestowitz Check out my new post and help spot typos (not proofread yet):  http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/02… Apr 02 16:37
schestowitz I think it’s pretty damning for Microsoft, and all based on truths Apr 02 16:38
schestowitz Another conficker victim? “The gossip on Twitter suggested that the company’s name servers were the target of aDDOS attack, though this hasn’t been confirmed.” http://www.theinquirer.net/inq… Apr 02 16:45
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schestowitz Hi, anivar Apr 02 16:46
schestowitz New version of KDE has just been released: http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.2.2.php Apr 02 16:50
anivar schestowitz:  hai Apr 02 16:52
schestowitz What’s up? Apr 02 16:52
ToreadorVampire Ooh, that’s amusing – BECTA have advised educational establishments away from Vista/Office2007 :) Apr 02 16:52
ToreadorVampire (old news I guess) Apr 02 16:53
ToreadorVampire But just spotted it Apr 02 16:53
anivar schestowitz:  ODF alliance responded positively Apr 02 16:53
anivar Hello Arun:  Sounds good.  I will do a “write-up” (citation) for the award using the original nomination paper and additional information that has come to light in the subsequent email correspondence. I would then post this document on the web site and do a blog post on the citation. What is clear is that the original nomination paper got lost in translation in the press release, for which I, as drafter of the release, am solely responsible. I do hop Apr 02 16:53
anivar e this will clarify matters and sincerely regret any difficulties this has caused for anyone involved. Best, Apr 02 16:53
anivar Marino Apr 02 16:53
anivar Mail From marino Apr 02 16:53
anivar thanks for pointing KDE announcement Apr 02 16:54
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schestowitz ToreadorVampire: yes, old news RE: BECTA Apr 02 16:55
schestowitz They are still corrupted by Microsoft though Apr 02 16:55
ToreadorVampire Mmm – well, I used to work in education (and I’m a Brit) – had a lot of contact with BECTA Apr 02 16:56
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?hl=e… Apr 02 16:56
schestowitz anivar: wonderful news Apr 02 16:57
schestowitz They did the right think, as suggested in the first comment Apr 02 16:57
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Balrog ODF? Apr 02 16:58
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schestowitz OpenDocument Format Apr 02 17:00
Omar87 http://blogs.pcworld.co.nz/pcworl… Apr 02 17:00
schestowitz A Linux Netbook Done The Right Way: the Sylvania g Netbook Meso < http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2… > Apr 02 17:01
schestowitz Omar87: yes, seen it Apr 02 17:01
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Omar87 ;) Apr 02 17:01
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PetoKraus the Xorg stack is bloody unstable Apr 02 17:02
PetoKraus oh and I need to kill my router for some reason Apr 02 17:03
ToreadorVampire http://boycottnovell.com/200…  «  Interestingly – I know this agreement quite well – it was not mandatory, rather (when I worked at a School) we didn’t use a “Microsoft Schools Agreement” – instead we just bought standard perpetual licenses for our MS software Apr 02 17:03
ToreadorVampire But we did look at the schools agreement and weigh up it’s benefits/shortcomings when we made that decision – but at the time a WinXP and an OfficeXP license was so cheap it was silly to pay a recurring cost for licenses Apr 02 17:04
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schestowitz Cheap it ain’t. Apr 02 17:06
schestowitz Not for the chilldren Apr 02 17:06
schestowitz it’s lockin Apr 02 17:06
schestowitz To Microsoft, this is money well spent/dumped Apr 02 17:06
schestowitz And teachers/parents need to realise this, too. Apr 02 17:06
schestowitz Adobe uses similar tactics Apr 02 17:06
ToreadorVampire Maybe, however making *changes* in that area is a lot more difficult than you think … Apr 02 17:06
PeterKraus don’t get me started on photoshop Apr 02 17:06
Omar87 “”I’m going to open up the company,” he declared. “Closed-source licensing is killing the software business. It’s a cancer. It’s Pacman-like. It just gobbles up customer dollars.”” ~ Ballmer Apr 02 17:07
Omar87 what’s that supposed to mean? Apr 02 17:07
ToreadorVampire Say a school was to switch entirely to GNU software (OS and productivity software) – it would invalidate a HELL of a lot of their staff’s training, and teaching staff are already struggling to get to grips with information technology in order to make effective use of it Apr 02 17:08
schestowitz heh. http://maratux.blogspot.c… (Microsoft uses git for version control) Apr 02 17:09
Omar87 lol! Apr 02 17:09
ToreadorVampire And during that transition period when the staff are being retrained, what of the students’ education?  Would you want to lower the quality of education for a year or two of high school students for the sake of switching to open source software? Apr 02 17:09
Omar87 And GIT is Linus’s invention by the way. ;) Apr 02 17:10
schestowitz ToreadorVampire: it has a cost Apr 02 17:10
schestowitz That’s why they keep tossing cigarettes at schools Apr 02 17:10
schestowitz It’s like a smoker saying, “well, I already did damage, so why stop smoking now? it’s too hard and pointless.” Apr 02 17:11
schestowitz Omar87: it’s April 1st (Was) Apr 02 17:11
ToreadorVampire Mmm … I think the noise made by the “Hey!  Our children deserve a good education” crowd would be louder than the “But Microsoft are evil” crowd – and I think rightly so Apr 02 17:11
ToreadorVampire And what do you mean by “tossig cigarettes at schools” btw? Apr 02 17:12
ToreadorVampire tossing* Apr 02 17:12
schestowitz Another new AIR application for microblogging: http://www.h-online.com/open/Yahoo-rel… Apr 02 17:12
schestowitz Giving them temptations like kickbacks and gratis software to get children addicted. Apr 02 17:13
schestowitz You needn’t tell parents that  “But Microsoft are evil” Apr 02 17:13
schestowitz It’s nothing to do with Microsoft Apr 02 17:13
schestowitz Just non-Free software Apr 02 17:13
schestowitz Turning kids to customers Apr 02 17:13
schestowitz Same problem with Google BTW Apr 02 17:14
schestowitz Bill Gates: “They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.” Apr 02 17:14
ToreadorVampire Mmm – oh I agree that non-free software is bad … just … not bad enough to warrant some of the activism/pressure I see – especially when activists/pressure groups often aren’t in tune with the needs to the people they are pressuring … Apr 02 17:15
ToreadorVampire Quite simply, change costs, regardless whether it’s change for the better or worse … Apr 02 17:17
ToreadorVampire But – change is happening :) Apr 02 17:17
schestowitz Yes, graduaqlly Apr 02 17:17
schestowitz Things like ODF, OOo Apr 02 17:17
schestowitz No need for retraining for OOo3.1 GUI Apr 02 17:17
ToreadorVampire The college where I used to work (yeah, I worked at a school first, then a college, although I’m freelance now) have just installed a suite of Ubuntu machines … indeed, I was called in to give them a hand setting them up Apr 02 17:17
schestowitz Unlike MSO, which also need h/w upgrades Apr 02 17:17
schestowitz That’s a good start Apr 02 17:18
ToreadorVampire schestowitz> Yeah – well, also – the Office 2007 GUI IMO was an awful choice Apr 02 17:18
schestowitz When Conficker or virus du jour devours some cluster and leaves them with a scathing experience, guess which side they’ll expand next (even with aged machines)? Apr 02 17:18
ToreadorVampire Especially because now the OOo GUI is actually more in-line with “what people know” than the MSOffice GUI Apr 02 17:19
schestowitz ToreadorVampire: it looks nice and give people the illusion they pay for a worthy upgrade Apr 02 17:19
schestowitz Like New Coke Apr 02 17:19
ToreadorVampire schestowitz> One thing I do notice though – is that the teachers still have trouble teaching using that Linux suite … since there is a lot of tech stuff they know how to do on Windows but can’t do on those Linux machines Apr 02 17:20
schestowitz They can learn Apr 02 17:20
schestowitz That’s what they do Apr 02 17:20
schestowitz Teaching Apr 02 17:20
ToreadorVampire Yes, but that learning comes at the cost of the teaching of the students Apr 02 17:21
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Apr 02 17:21
schestowitz True. Apr 02 17:21
ToreadorVampire It’s *extra* learning that has to come out of the teacher’s time Apr 02 17:21
schestowitz That’s the trap and the reason for EDGI Apr 02 17:21
schestowitz You know EDGI, right? Apr 02 17:21
ToreadorVampire No, or if I do – I don’t know it by that name Apr 02 17:21
ToreadorVampire /acronym Apr 02 17:22
ToreadorVampire But whilst currently the early-adopters are playing with the Linux machines – there are many who would be completely paralysed if you took away “what they knew” Apr 02 17:23
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?hl… Apr 02 17:24
schestowitz There are signs of Linux becoming more ‘universal’, but with Google and others in the picture it will never happen. http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext… (Linux Foundation takes over Stewardship of Intel’s Moblin OS) Apr 02 17:24
ToreadorVampire Oh – so – I do vaguely know EDGI – it’s been about 4 years since I had any involvement in software purchasing Apr 02 17:28
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ToreadorVampire Not 100% sure it was called EDGI then – but I was aware that we got MS licenses a lot cheaper than regular businesses could Apr 02 17:28
ToreadorVampire (as a school) Apr 02 17:28
ToreadorVampire IIRC something like £17 per WinXP Pro (perpetual, non-OEM/transferable-to-any-machine-we-wanted) license, wheras retail was more like £200 for the same thing Apr 02 17:30
schestowitz To make children addicted Apr 02 17:30
schestowitz And teachers too Apr 02 17:30
schestowitz There are interesting posts also about what Microsoft does to teachers Apr 02 17:30
schestowitz Just found http://www.thebruisedbrain…. Apr 02 17:33
ToreadorVampire Well – we always had a choice between MS and free software, and we considered the free alternative once or twice, but the “real cost” of switching to non-MS software was just too high to consider Apr 02 17:34
schestowitz What if the Obama Administration Treated Detroit like Wall Street?  < http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/corp-f… > Apr 02 17:34
schestowitz ToreadorVampire: short-term cost Apr 02 17:34
schestowitz Look ahead Apr 02 17:34
ToreadorVampire schestowitz> Oh yes – but that short-term cost was greater than the resources we had or could borrow Apr 02 17:35
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