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DaemonFC | what do you expect? | Apr 03 12:10 |
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DaemonFC | They elected John Howard how many times? | Apr 03 12:11 |
DaemonFC | :) | Apr 03 12:11 |
DaemonFC | they want to say the US is screwed up | Apr 03 12:11 |
DaemonFC | we were smart enough to term limit | Apr 03 12:11 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 03 12:11 |
mattparry | roy, I think that you should kick everone who has not posted in the last 1/2 hour | Apr 03 12:12 |
DaemonFC | the qualifications for Australian Prime Minister are a pulse and repackaging the same lies every election | Apr 03 12:12 |
DaemonFC | lol | Apr 03 12:12 |
DaemonFC | they have no freedom of speech or expression | Apr 03 12:13 |
DaemonFC | their internet is about to be censored | Apr 03 12:13 |
DaemonFC | just like Iran's | Apr 03 12:13 |
MinceR | most countries are screwed up in many ways | Apr 03 12:13 |
DaemonFC | what is there to say about Australia? | Apr 03 12:13 |
DaemonFC | seriously? | Apr 03 12:13 |
MinceR | i thought they recently realized internet censorship is bad and were moving out of it? | Apr 03 12:14 |
DaemonFC | at least the US government could never be that bold about censoring free expression | Apr 03 12:14 |
DaemonFC | it's unconstitutional | Apr 03 12:14 |
DaemonFC | and there's no denying it | Apr 03 12:14 |
DaemonFC | it's nice that the system works sometimes | Apr 03 12:15 |
mattparry | ok ttfn!! | Apr 03 12:16 |
*mattparry has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Apr 03 12:17 | |
oiaohm | schestowitz: It will be interesting to see if the TPM artical gets any reponses. | Apr 03 12:17 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: Of course I find it amusing that the people in Australia put up with what they do | Apr 03 12:17 |
DaemonFC | they deserve it for electign and re-electing those politicians | Apr 03 12:17 |
oiaohm | You really need to look at the Australian voting system its kinda rigged. | Apr 03 12:18 |
DaemonFC | here you use online tax software and it's free | Apr 03 12:18 |
MinceR | they probably have a minority that suffers for these choices made by the majority | Apr 03 12:18 |
DaemonFC | you can use any OS you wany | Apr 03 12:18 |
MinceR | just like i suffer in hungary | Apr 03 12:18 |
DaemonFC | *want | Apr 03 12:18 |
DaemonFC | if you have a vote that counts jsut as much as anyones | Apr 03 12:19 |
DaemonFC | then you have a fairly elected government | Apr 03 12:19 |
MinceR | so the saying that "every country deserves its government" holds in general, but not for each individual | Apr 03 12:19 |
oiaohm | Problem here is we have prefence voting. | Apr 03 12:19 |
DaemonFC | and nobody is to blame but the people of your country | Apr 03 12:19 |
oiaohm | So the person who gets the most votes might not get the seat due to the way preferences work out. | Apr 03 12:20 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: That's not a bad thing really | Apr 03 12:20 |
DaemonFC | here we get two parties | Apr 03 12:20 |
DaemonFC | and they're both crooks | Apr 03 12:20 |
oiaohm | It is when you have 3 parties | Apr 03 12:20 |
oiaohm | And two are the same. | Apr 03 12:20 |
MinceR | sadly, we're moving to the "two parties, both crooks" model here, too | Apr 03 12:20 |
oiaohm | Any new party that trys to get up here will be put last on preferences. | Apr 03 12:21 |
oiaohm | Preferences is a really destructive system. | Apr 03 12:21 |
DaemonFC | there's a lot of parties, but people will go with the Democrats (catch all liberal) or Republicans (catch all regressives/religious loonies/big business) | Apr 03 12:21 |
DaemonFC | and they're both just different kinds of bad | Apr 03 12:21 |
oiaohm | We don't have a lot of parties here. | Apr 03 12:22 |
oiaohm | We have 4. (Lib Nat)basically the same. Labor and green. | Apr 03 12:22 |
oiaohm | libreral and Nat are so the same they don't even bother having different policies. | Apr 03 12:23 |
DaemonFC | that's funny | Apr 03 12:23 |
DaemonFC | but they still run candidates against the other? | Apr 03 12:23 |
oiaohm | Greens don't compete in every seat. | Apr 03 12:23 |
oiaohm | Yes they do run candidates against each othr DaemonFC | Apr 03 12:23 |
oiaohm | Means working as one they stuff up the perferences system. | Apr 03 12:24 |
DaemonFC | doesn't that jsut split the vote and give the other bastards more of a chance? | Apr 03 12:24 |
DaemonFC | :) | Apr 03 12:24 |
oiaohm | Not with preferences. | Apr 03 12:24 |
DaemonFC | oh ,right | Apr 03 12:24 |
oiaohm | Reason why I say person should have to vote for 1 candate and 1 candate only. | Apr 03 12:25 |
DaemonFC | then you end up with our system | Apr 03 12:25 |
oiaohm | That might put the wrong person in but cannot be screwed with like agreements can. | Apr 03 12:25 |
schestowitz | Conficker zombie botnet drops to 3.5 million < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04... > | Apr 03 12:25 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: I don't even really look at who is on the ticket | Apr 03 12:26 |
DaemonFC | I just tell the machine I want all Democrats | Apr 03 12:26 |
DaemonFC | lol | Apr 03 12:26 |
oiaohm | Gets worse you only need to put 1 in a box and then the parties preferences get automatically applied. | Apr 03 12:26 |
DaemonFC | I push one button and vote for like a dozen people I don't know | Apr 03 12:26 |
oiaohm | So a lot of people here are not aware that the preference system is even in effect. | Apr 03 12:26 |
DaemonFC | *and* Obama | Apr 03 12:26 |
DaemonFC | yay | Apr 03 12:26 |
DaemonFC | it doesn't matter if I can't stand the Democrat running for that office | Apr 03 12:27 |
DaemonFC | my only other choice is a Republican who should probably be shot | Apr 03 12:27 |
DaemonFC | so what the hell? | Apr 03 12:27 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 03 12:27 |
DaemonFC | so voting in American elections is just a recurring feud | Apr 03 12:28 |
DaemonFC | I vote for whoever is wearing my team's jacket | Apr 03 12:29 |
DaemonFC | and come back in another 2 years | Apr 03 12:29 |
oiaohm | Everyone here has to vote. | Apr 03 12:30 |
DaemonFC | yeah, that's funny | Apr 03 12:30 |
DaemonFC | I don't want everyone to have to vote | Apr 03 12:30 |
DaemonFC | if you're not motivated to get up and go vote | Apr 03 12:30 |
DaemonFC | you made your choice | Apr 03 12:30 |
DaemonFC | :P | Apr 03 12:30 |
DaemonFC | actually, what's wrong is that we've let the biggest business of all tell people who to vote for | Apr 03 12:32 |
oiaohm | Tried that. | Apr 03 12:32 |
DaemonFC | the Christian church | Apr 03 12:32 |
oiaohm | Australians one complete area did not vote at all. | Apr 03 12:32 |
DaemonFC | they take billions of dollars | Apr 03 12:33 |
DaemonFC | pay no taxes | Apr 03 12:33 |
MinceR | yes, cults are another can of worms | Apr 03 12:33 |
DaemonFC | and control hundreds of millions of Americans minds | Apr 03 12:33 |
oiaohm | Basically here in australia if its not required to vote basically will not happen. | Apr 03 12:33 |
oiaohm | In many areas. | Apr 03 12:33 |
oiaohm | Who is going to travel 150 kms just to vote. | Apr 03 12:33 |
DaemonFC | I always vote even if I know it won't do any good | Apr 03 12:34 |
DaemonFC | if there's no Democrat running, I vote Libertarian | Apr 03 12:34 |
DaemonFC | if no Libertarian, I vote a write in | Apr 03 12:35 |
oiaohm | How far do you have to go to vote. | Apr 03 12:35 |
DaemonFC | if there's nothing but a Republican | Apr 03 12:35 |
oiaohm | this is the problem here. | Apr 03 12:35 |
DaemonFC | I leave that one blank | Apr 03 12:35 |
DaemonFC | oh, I just walked a couple blocks | Apr 03 12:35 |
DaemonFC | to the courthouse | Apr 03 12:35 |
oiaohm | Exactly simple. | Apr 03 12:36 |
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tacone | good afternoon. | Apr 03 12:36 |
oiaohm | Some of our areas that people have to center point vote in is over 400 km across DaemonFC | Apr 03 12:36 |
oiaohm | Hi tacone | Apr 03 12:36 |
DaemonFC | damn | Apr 03 12:37 |
DaemonFC | no mail-in ballots? | Apr 03 12:37 |
oiaohm | They restrict use of them. | Apr 03 12:37 |
oiaohm | So if you had to go 200 km to vote each year would you be as likely to do it DaemonFC | Apr 03 12:38 |
DaemonFC | probably not | Apr 03 12:38 |
oiaohm | That is the problem here and some of the large areas without law they just would not vote that simple. | Apr 03 12:38 |
oiaohm | So you would have a seat with no one voted in. | Apr 03 12:38 |
oiaohm | That kinda causes all kinds of problems. | Apr 03 12:39 |
MinceR | it has a certain charm :> | Apr 03 12:39 |
oiaohm | Particularly the last time when it was the blance of power. | Apr 03 12:39 |
schestowitz | Google might buy Twitter: http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nm/200... Todd Bishop already talks about it. It would be more valuable than Digg. | Apr 03 12:39 |
oiaohm | Nice nasty delock problem DaemonFC | Apr 03 12:40 |
DaemonFC | anyway MinceR: The problem with XFS, the _only_ problem it has ever given me | Apr 03 12:41 |
DaemonFC | it's horrendously slow when deleting thousands of small files | Apr 03 12:41 |
DaemonFC | otherwise, great file system | Apr 03 12:41 |
MinceR | well then you were lucky with it | Apr 03 12:41 |
oiaohm | I have had to data recover xfs | Apr 03 12:41 |
oiaohm | a few times | Apr 03 12:41 |
MinceR | iirc Andrew Morton said that it actually wouldn't be too difficult to implement data journaling for XFS and they might do it someday | Apr 03 12:41 |
oiaohm | NTFS is almost 1 a month. | Apr 03 12:41 |
DaemonFC | it can take XFS minutes to delete a kernel source folder | Apr 03 12:42 |
DaemonFC | takes Ext4 like 3 seconds | Apr 03 12:42 |
DaemonFC | no, not kidding | Apr 03 12:42 |
tacone | Novell is getting such a bad rap this days | Apr 03 12:42 |
MinceR | all fs-es have their strong and weak points | Apr 03 12:42 |
tacone | s/this/these | Apr 03 12:42 |
MinceR | tacone: well deserved | Apr 03 12:42 |
oiaohm | Novell wrap sheet for doing wrong is long. | Apr 03 12:42 |
tacone | is there anything they can do to recover ? even their ceo is so sorry about that. | Apr 03 12:42 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: YOu still never answered | Apr 03 12:42 |
DaemonFC | if Red Hat and Novell disappeared, and with them, half the work on the Linux kernel | Apr 03 12:43 |
oiaohm | Novell used the law to destroy SCO tacone | Apr 03 12:43 |
DaemonFC | what would be next? | Apr 03 12:43 |
DaemonFC | is that a good thing? | Apr 03 12:43 |
tacone | oiaohm: so ? | Apr 03 12:43 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: you mean, half the code of the kernel magically disappeared? | Apr 03 12:43 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: we'd rewrite it | Apr 03 12:43 |
tacone | was SCO a good thing ? | Apr 03 12:43 |
MinceR | things like that get rewritten eventually anyway | Apr 03 12:43 |
oiaohm | Novell did the contract that tricked SCO into thinking they owned UNIX. | Apr 03 12:43 |
DaemonFC | no, I mean all of a sudden, several HUNDRED kernel developers could no longer work on it | Apr 03 12:43 |
DaemonFC | what would happen? | Apr 03 12:43 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: others would continue the work | Apr 03 12:44 |
oiaohm | So the complete SCO mess was started and ended by Novell. | Apr 03 12:44 |
DaemonFC | otheres where? | Apr 03 12:44 |
DaemonFC | from a company? | Apr 03 12:44 |
DaemonFC | which one? | Apr 03 12:44 |
tacone | instead it was SCO to be owned :-) | Apr 03 12:44 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: and it would still be developed much faster than other kernels in the world | Apr 03 12:44 |
DaemonFC | no, Linux would fade away | Apr 03 12:44 |
DaemonFC | if not for companies that work on it | Apr 03 12:44 |
oiaohm | SCO is not even the first company Novell has done that to. | Apr 03 12:44 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: which company did Linus work for when he started the kernel? | Apr 03 12:44 |
DaemonFC | today 76% of the kernel contributions come from paid software programmers | Apr 03 12:45 |
DaemonFC | working for a company | Apr 03 12:45 |
MinceR | and from that 76% percent you deduce that nobody would work on it | Apr 03 12:45 |
MinceR | brilliant | Apr 03 12:45 |
DaemonFC | so you mean to say that with 24% of the current developers that Linux would thrive? | Apr 03 12:45 |
MinceR | yes, it would | Apr 03 12:45 |
MinceR | and it would get more developers | Apr 03 12:45 |
DaemonFC | without companies, Linux would not be where it is | Apr 03 12:46 |
DaemonFC | Intel and AMD write drivers and firmwares for their boards and CPUs | Apr 03 12:46 |
DaemonFC | what of that? | Apr 03 12:46 |
MinceR | and without certain companies you admire so much it wouldn't be threatened the way it is | Apr 03 12:46 |
DaemonFC | well, you wouldn't have Linux if not for them | Apr 03 12:46 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: i think it's reasonable to expect hw vendors to write drivers for their stuff | Apr 03 12:46 |
DaemonFC | so be grateful they gave it to you | Apr 03 12:47 |
MinceR | how else do you think those driver cd-s for hw with windows drivers on them appear? | Apr 03 12:47 |
MinceR | do they grow on trees or something? | Apr 03 12:47 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: novell didn't give linux to me | Apr 03 12:47 |
DaemonFC | Intel and AMD have no reason to care if your desktop works with Linux | Apr 03 12:47 |
MinceR | they have more reason to care now than they did when they started supporting it | Apr 03 12:47 |
DaemonFC | except that they compete with each other | Apr 03 12:47 |
DaemonFC | if they only made drivers for Windows, you would use Windows | Apr 03 12:48 |
DaemonFC | you would have to | Apr 03 12:48 |
MinceR | or i would use other hw | Apr 03 12:48 |
MinceR | or i would write the drivers myself | Apr 03 12:48 |
MinceR | and i'd curse them for not doing it, rightly | Apr 03 12:48 |
MinceR | or an independent programmer would do it | Apr 03 12:48 |
DaemonFC | you don't have the resources they do | Apr 03 12:48 |
DaemonFC | Linux could never thrive without commercial support | Apr 03 12:49 |
oiaohm | http://lwn.net/Articles/324046/ IBM and Novell not that big of numbers in the overall picture. | Apr 03 12:49 |
MinceR | it's funny how you keep claim things are impossible that have happened many times already | Apr 03 12:49 |
MinceR | s/laim/laiming/ | Apr 03 12:49 |
DaemonFC | it would still be a broken mish mash of half implemented stuff that worked if you were lucky | Apr 03 12:49 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: stop reiterating the same false crap over and over again, it's boring | Apr 03 12:49 |
MinceR | you're like a stuck record | Apr 03 12:49 |
oiaohm | Linux developers number in the thousands per release. | Apr 03 12:49 |
DaemonFC | yeah, that would be a hundred or so | Apr 03 12:50 |
DaemonFC | if no commercial support | Apr 03 12:50 |
oiaohm | Loss of 1000 developers is not project destroying. | Apr 03 12:50 |
oiaohm | Ok for the Linux kernel. | Apr 03 12:50 |
oiaohm | Thinking there are over 1000 without any company support. | Apr 03 12:50 |
DaemonFC | GNU HURD is what you get with a community project | Apr 03 12:50 |
DaemonFC | 25 years old and doesn't work | Apr 03 12:50 |
MinceR | no, GNU HURD is what you get with a very difficult project | Apr 03 12:51 |
oiaohm | HURD is a prick. | Apr 03 12:51 |
MinceR | tell me one successful microkernel | Apr 03 12:51 |
MinceR | one that really is a microkernel the way it's used. | Apr 03 12:51 |
DaemonFC | MINIX could be | Apr 03 12:51 |
MinceR | _could_ | Apr 03 12:51 |
oiaohm | Hurd problem is crash loops. | Apr 03 12:51 |
DaemonFC | but doesn't get the love | Apr 03 12:51 |
MinceR | it isn't. | Apr 03 12:51 |
DaemonFC | MINIX is a hell of a lot better example than HURD | Apr 03 12:51 |
DaemonFC | at least MINIX works | Apr 03 12:51 |
oiaohm | So by the time you know you have a problem you don't have the data that set off loop. | Apr 03 12:51 |
MinceR | i know, it isn't GNU so it must be perfect. | Apr 03 12:52 |
*MinceR yawns | Apr 03 12:52 | |
oiaohm | Minix logs crashes clearly. | Apr 03 12:52 |
DaemonFC | the GNU people are hippies | Apr 03 12:52 |
oiaohm | HURD does not. | Apr 03 12:52 |
DaemonFC | complete with UNIX beards | Apr 03 12:52 |
DaemonFC | and that dazed Acid look | Apr 03 12:52 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: and communists! | Apr 03 12:52 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: so why don't you go back to your all-american microsoft products already? | Apr 03 12:52 |
MinceR | they're so great and you admire m$ so much... | Apr 03 12:53 |
oiaohm | Linux did not have commerical support for all its life. | Apr 03 12:53 |
DaemonFC | most work on Linux happens here too | Apr 03 12:53 |
DaemonFC | so it's good | Apr 03 12:53 |
DaemonFC | ;) | Apr 03 12:53 |
oiaohm | You have to cross a threshold to get commerial support. | Apr 03 12:53 |
oiaohm | Ie where the code can make profit. | Apr 03 12:53 |
DaemonFC | Red Hat | Apr 03 12:54 |
DaemonFC | Red Hat has been around a long time | Apr 03 12:54 |
oiaohm | One of the first commericals | Apr 03 12:54 |
MinceR | and they seem to be turning evil now. | Apr 03 12:54 |
oiaohm | Loss of them would be a far large problem than Novell. | Apr 03 12:54 |
MinceR | well, not so recently actually | Apr 03 12:54 |
DaemonFC | they were really the only Linux worth giving a second look at | Apr 03 12:54 |
DaemonFC | til about 2004 | Apr 03 12:54 |
MinceR | more personal opinions. | Apr 03 12:55 |
DaemonFC | hehe | Apr 03 12:55 |
DaemonFC | not really | Apr 03 12:55 |
DaemonFC | Debian has always been a broken mess | Apr 03 12:55 |
MinceR | and red hat hasn't. | Apr 03 12:55 |
DaemonFC | Red Hat has generally worked | Apr 03 12:55 |
MinceR | lol | Apr 03 12:55 |
DaemonFC | and given you someone to call if it didn't | Apr 03 12:55 |
MinceR | lol | Apr 03 12:56 |
DaemonFC | that's like the anti-Debian | Apr 03 12:56 |
MinceR | you're hilarious | Apr 03 12:56 |
DaemonFC | Seriously, Debian is like the crappiest distribution there ever has been | Apr 03 12:56 |
oiaohm | There is way worse than Debian | Apr 03 12:56 |
DaemonFC | if any software is under active development, it may change and is unfit for Debian | Apr 03 12:56 |
DaemonFC | oh you can TRY and use Testing, but that's still not guaranteed to be new stuff | Apr 03 12:57 |
DaemonFC | and there are bugs | Apr 03 12:57 |
*tacone (n=tacone@93-32-186-60.ip34.fastwebnet.it) has left #boycottnovell ("ERROR: crap-talking overflow - Aborting.") | Apr 03 12:57 | |
oiaohm | Debian Testing is still way safter than Fedora. | Apr 03 12:57 |
DaemonFC | that's what I meant by Ubuntu has made a credible Debian-like distro | Apr 03 12:57 |
oiaohm | The complete distribution model is wrong. | Apr 03 12:58 |
oiaohm | The idea that a release has to contain all stuff from the same time frame. | Apr 03 12:58 |
DaemonFC | Debian is suitable for maybe a server or a workstation, but completely inappropriate for multimedia, gaming, cool stuff | Apr 03 12:58 |
oiaohm | Is bassically wrong. Don't care if more stable and safer stuff has been release we sticking with what as released in that time frame. | Apr 03 12:59 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu is just as gulity of it. | Apr 03 12:59 |
DaemonFC | it is not an OS you want on your desktop | Apr 03 12:59 |
oiaohm | I use debian as my desktop. | Apr 03 12:59 |
oiaohm | Because I want stablity. | Apr 03 12:59 |
DaemonFC | my condolences | Apr 03 12:59 |
oiaohm | I have had way less problems with it than ubuntus. | Apr 03 12:59 |
oiaohm | Or fedoras | Apr 03 12:59 |
DaemonFC | then their compiler in stable gets so old that new kernels refuse to build with it | Apr 03 13:00 |
DaemonFC | lol | Apr 03 13:00 |
oiaohm | Come on who is the mad buggers in them who thinks pulseaudio is good. | Apr 03 13:00 |
DaemonFC | I use Pulseaudio | Apr 03 13:00 |
oiaohm | Sorry that is not true. | Apr 03 13:00 |
oiaohm | I build 2.6.29 with default debian complier. | Apr 03 13:00 |
DaemonFC | you can remove the blacklisting | Apr 03 13:00 |
DaemonFC | but that's not a good idea | Apr 03 13:00 |
DaemonFC | 2.6.29 won't build with 4.1 or earlier | Apr 03 13:01 |
MinceR | what do you recommend for audio over network? :> | Apr 03 13:01 |
oiaohm | Pulseaudio has many creative ways to stuff up. | Apr 03 13:01 |
DaemonFC | I'm using Pulseaudio 0.9.15 with timer-based settings | Apr 03 13:01 |
DaemonFC | not interrupt-based | Apr 03 13:01 |
oiaohm | That can screw up. | Apr 03 13:01 |
DaemonFC | not on my kernel | Apr 03 13:02 |
DaemonFC | hehee | Apr 03 13:02 |
oiaohm | kernel is not the issue. | Apr 03 13:02 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Apr 03 13:02 |
DaemonFC | it is | Apr 03 13:02 |
oiaohm | Pulseaudio screws it self up. | Apr 03 13:02 |
DaemonFC | no | Apr 03 13:02 |
DaemonFC | kernel settings | Apr 03 13:02 |
DaemonFC | it fucks up with dynamic ticks | Apr 03 13:02 |
oiaohm | Wine + Pulseaudio + right applications. | Apr 03 13:02 |
DaemonFC | royally | Apr 03 13:02 |
oiaohm | Is dead man walking. | Apr 03 13:03 |
DaemonFC | ryan@ryan-desktop:~$ uname -a | Apr 03 13:03 |
DaemonFC | Linux ryan-desktop 2.6.29-git9-ryan1 #1 SMP PREEMPT Wed Apr 1 21:20:36 EDT 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux | Apr 03 13:03 |
oiaohm | Yep even with that kind of combination. | Apr 03 13:03 |
MinceR | so DaemonFC is basically saying pulseaudio is good except it fucks up with dynamic ticks | Apr 03 13:03 |
MinceR | i'd say then it isn't good. :> | Apr 03 13:03 |
DaemonFC | dynamic ticks is fucking stupid | Apr 03 13:03 |
DaemonFC | on a desktop | Apr 03 13:03 |
DaemonFC | :) | Apr 03 13:03 |
MinceR | yes, and consuming low power is fucking stupid too | Apr 03 13:03 |
DaemonFC | pardon my french | Apr 03 13:03 |
oiaohm | Userspace audio is stupid too. | Apr 03 13:03 |
DaemonFC | the PSU uses about as much either way | Apr 03 13:04 |
DaemonFC | so you save nothing | Apr 03 13:04 |
MinceR | mixing in userspace isn't necessarily stupid | Apr 03 13:04 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: depends on the PSU | Apr 03 13:04 |
DaemonFC | if you're on a battery (laptop) dynamic ticks makes sense | Apr 03 13:04 |
*MinceR is on a laptop | Apr 03 13:04 | |
oiaohm | Pulseaudio has more problems than just dynamic ticks. | Apr 03 13:04 |
DaemonFC | well you go | Apr 03 13:04 |
DaemonFC | :) | Apr 03 13:04 |
oiaohm | It hates hybernation as well. | Apr 03 13:04 |
MinceR | also, your PSU isn't going to waste less just because your CPU is crunching away. | Apr 03 13:04 |
MinceR | and then we didn't even mention virtualized systems :> | Apr 03 13:05 |
amarsh04 | I've transcoded video, and burned dvd's based on transcoded data that played fine on convention dvd players using Debian unstable with www.debian-multimedia.org repositories on this PII-266 | Apr 03 13:05 |
DaemonFC | Dynamic Ticks off, HZ=1000, CONFIG_PREEMPT=Y, preemptible RCU | Apr 03 13:05 |
oiaohm | Do you know the one problem with CONFIG_PREEMPT | Apr 03 13:05 |
DaemonFC | nope | Apr 03 13:05 |
DaemonFC | used it for years | Apr 03 13:06 |
oiaohm | You can screw X11 up from time to time because CPU time does not get to it. | Apr 03 13:06 |
oiaohm | Basically put enough load on pulseaudio and cry. | Apr 03 13:06 |
DaemonFC | http://pastebin.com/d16b7d606 | Apr 03 13:07 |
DaemonFC | have fun B-) | Apr 03 13:07 |
MinceR | isn't preempting about interrupting kernel code? | Apr 03 13:07 |
*amarsh04 doesn't use pulseaudio, but does have CONFIG_PREEMPT=y | Apr 03 13:07 | |
oiaohm | It about over riding BKL. | Apr 03 13:07 |
oiaohm | There are sometimes you should not do that. | Apr 03 13:08 |
DaemonFC | CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU=y | Apr 03 13:08 |
DaemonFC | don't forget that | Apr 03 13:08 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 03 13:08 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: I have run on those kinds of combinations. | Apr 03 13:08 |
oiaohm | they don't save you from quite a few glitchs pulseaudio has. | Apr 03 13:09 |
oiaohm | pulseaudio is also a very old school design. | Apr 03 13:09 |
DaemonFC | # CONFIG_EXT2_FS is not set # CONFIG_EXT3_FS is not set # CONFIG_REISERFS_FS is not set # CONFIG_JFS_FS is not set # CONFIG_XFS_FS is not set | Apr 03 13:09 |
DaemonFC | lol | Apr 03 13:09 |
oiaohm | Its going to cause major problems as containers in the Linux kernel gets more developed. | Apr 03 13:10 |
DaemonFC | CONFIG_EXT4_FS=y | Apr 03 13:10 |
oiaohm | Containers allow applications to be suspended 1 at a time. | Apr 03 13:10 |
oiaohm | Unless they are hooked to something like pulseaudio. | Apr 03 13:10 |
oiaohm | So everything hooked to pulseaudio will have to be supended at once. | Apr 03 13:10 |
oiaohm | Note DRI2 X11 provides the tech to avoid that problem from containers for X11. | Apr 03 13:11 |
oiaohm | There is no place in modern OS design for a item Like pulseaudio. | Apr 03 13:11 |
MinceR | there would be place for a network-transparent sound server | Apr 03 13:12 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure that's why they're making Pulseaudio | Apr 03 13:12 |
DaemonFC | cause they want to finish with a product that's obsolete | Apr 03 13:12 |
DaemonFC | right off the bat | Apr 03 13:12 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 03 13:12 |
DaemonFC | /sarcasm | Apr 03 13:12 |
oiaohm | Lets list what containers have. Means to transfer applications from machine to machine over network. | Apr 03 13:13 |
oiaohm | Means to hibernate applications. | Apr 03 13:13 |
oiaohm | Means to control access to most resources bar audio so far. | Apr 03 13:13 |
oiaohm | Cluster filesystems are used with containers to make network movement simpler. | Apr 03 13:14 |
oiaohm | Basically audio should be done as a OS kernel container. | Apr 03 13:14 |
oiaohm | Not as a sound server. | Apr 03 13:14 |
oiaohm | To make sure audio setting data and ques and the like can travel with applications when transfered. | Apr 03 13:15 |
oiaohm | or suspended. | Apr 03 13:15 |
oiaohm | Basically pulseaudio is old school the last in the line of a long line of sound servers that have failed. | Apr 03 13:15 |
oiaohm | And they are expecting out come to be different this time. | Apr 03 13:16 |
MinceR | will that work over the network? | Apr 03 13:16 |
oiaohm | To completely work over a network in every way you need containers anyhow MinceR | Apr 03 13:17 |
oiaohm | What is the point of having a audio application stutter when another machine near you does not have load. | Apr 03 13:17 |
MinceR | i can give the sound server more priority if that's a problem | Apr 03 13:17 |
oiaohm | Full network support need to include if required moving the application over network as well as transfering sound. | Apr 03 13:17 |
oiaohm | If you have a application from server outputing sound on a client. | Apr 03 13:18 |
oiaohm | server has load client has none. why the hell would you keep on running the application on the server. | Apr 03 13:18 |
oiaohm | Only reason is that you cannot transfer it. | Apr 03 13:18 |
oiaohm | The problem with pulseaudio it blocks transfering of applications. | Apr 03 13:19 |
oiaohm | Pulseaudio is designed old school before over network transfering of applications existed. | Apr 03 13:20 |
DaemonFC | Pulseaudio is transparent | Apr 03 13:20 |
DaemonFC | even stupid crap that asks for ALS or OSS gets Pulseaudio anyway | Apr 03 13:20 |
oiaohm | I am not talking about transparent DaemonFC | Apr 03 13:20 |
DaemonFC | and is not even aware | Apr 03 13:20 |
oiaohm | If you need transparnet you use gstreamer from an application developer point of view. | Apr 03 13:21 |
oiaohm | Pulseaudio is nothing more than a middle man not designed to do the required tasks. | Apr 03 13:22 |
oiaohm | Sending audio over network is only 1 part of the problem. | Apr 03 13:22 |
oiaohm | Sending applications over network is the other half. | Apr 03 13:22 |
oiaohm | Who would not like if there desktop could follow them from machine to machine. | Apr 03 13:23 |
DaemonFC | Pulseaudio handles mixing that ALSA is incapable of alone | Apr 03 13:23 |
oiaohm | Without stopping. | Apr 03 13:23 |
DaemonFC | ALSA by itself belongs in 1995 | Apr 03 13:23 |
oiaohm | Did I say ALSA was good enough for this job. | Apr 03 13:24 |
oiaohm | No I did not. | Apr 03 13:24 |
DaemonFC | Pulseaudio is a band aid | Apr 03 13:24 |
DaemonFC | masking some of ALSA's pure shitness | Apr 03 13:24 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 03 13:24 |
oiaohm | Mixing Pulseaudio does can be done in ALSA with 1 minor hack. | Apr 03 13:24 |
oiaohm | Storing information about audio volume in a cgroup. | Apr 03 13:24 |
DaemonFC | most Pulseaudio problems are caused by distributions | Apr 03 13:24 |
oiaohm | And replace dmix with something better. | Apr 03 13:24 |
DaemonFC | misconfiguring it | Apr 03 13:24 |
oiaohm | BULL. | Apr 03 13:25 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu Hardy is a PRIME example | Apr 03 13:25 |
oiaohm | Most is caused by Pulseaudio trying to be a extrea middle layour. | Apr 03 13:25 |
DaemonFC | of dipshits tinkering with somethign they don't understand | Apr 03 13:25 |
oiaohm | More layers you stack the more problems you have. | Apr 03 13:25 |
oiaohm | Its like xcb vs xlib. | Apr 03 13:25 |
oiaohm | xcb less layours between you and the x11 server. | Apr 03 13:25 |
DaemonFC | Das Machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren musten keepen das cotten-pickenen hands in das pockets - relaxen und watchen das blinkenlights. | Apr 03 13:26 |
DaemonFC | :) | Apr 03 13:26 |
oiaohm | So runs nice and tidy on memory. | Apr 03 13:26 |
oiaohm | Pulseaudio cannot operate on top of dmix. | Apr 03 13:26 |
oiaohm | Due to dmix causing too much lag. | Apr 03 13:26 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu's developers are fucking idiots ran by a braindead bureaucracy | Apr 03 13:26 |
DaemonFC | it's all in the details | Apr 03 13:27 |
DaemonFC | and they get those wrong | Apr 03 13:27 |
oiaohm | You cannot disable pulseaudio and use a lot of sound cards with wine due to no dmix. | Apr 03 13:27 |
*MinceR suspects DaemonFC runs ubuntu | Apr 03 13:27 | |
oiaohm | Basically pulseaudio does not work right all the time yet. | Apr 03 13:27 |
oiaohm | Yet it does not have a good fall back location. | Apr 03 13:27 |
oiaohm | Basically pulseaudio is picking on users. | Apr 03 13:28 |
oiaohm | Yelling at projects like wine that you must build pulseaudio drivers. | Apr 03 13:28 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: With a LOT of customizations to restore sanity to ALSA and the kernel | Apr 03 13:28 |
DaemonFC | I may as well just fork their shit | Apr 03 13:28 |
DaemonFC | fix it | Apr 03 13:28 |
DaemonFC | and host it | Apr 03 13:28 |
oiaohm | So a project like wine would have to maintain even more drivers. | Apr 03 13:28 |
oiaohm | So sound from them would be more usntable. | Apr 03 13:29 |
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DaemonFC | Wine is not all that great | Apr 03 13:29 |
DaemonFC | I have to use the OSS driver | Apr 03 13:29 |
MinceR | why do i get the feeling that DaemonFC finds the products he hates the most, made by the people he hates the most, uses them and then complains? :> | Apr 03 13:29 |
oiaohm | Only team at the moment with common sence in the audio group is gstreamer. | Apr 03 13:29 |
DaemonFC | cause it demands a particular version of ALSA libs | Apr 03 13:29 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: Wine works perfectly fine with ALSA it self. | Apr 03 13:29 |
DaemonFC | or else it bitches and screams | Apr 03 13:29 |
DaemonFC | no it doesn't | Apr 03 13:29 |
DaemonFC | unless you use the version it expects | Apr 03 13:29 |
oiaohm | Sorry it does. | Apr 03 13:29 |
DaemonFC | no, you only think it does | Apr 03 13:30 |
oiaohm | I am one of the support people for wine. | Apr 03 13:30 |
oiaohm | I know that section well. | Apr 03 13:30 |
DaemonFC | so riddle me this | Apr 03 13:30 |
oiaohm | Main reason pulseaudio does not work. | Apr 03 13:30 |
MinceR | riddle me that | Apr 03 13:30 |
MinceR | who's afraid of a big black bat? | Apr 03 13:30 |
DaemonFC | err:module:load_builtin_dll failed to load .so lib for builtin L"winealsa.drv": /usr/bin/../lib32/wine/winealsa.drv.so: symbol snd_pcm_forward, version ALSA_0.9.0rc8 not defined in file libasound.so.2 with link time reference | Apr 03 13:30 |
oiaohm | Yes Ubuntu user. | Apr 03 13:31 |
oiaohm | Someone enabled versioning. | Apr 03 13:31 |
DaemonFC | I'm using a newer ALSA lib | Apr 03 13:31 |
oiaohm | when it was built. | Apr 03 13:31 |
DaemonFC | than comes with Jaunty | Apr 03 13:31 |
oiaohm | Its not a feature of the wine source code it self. | Apr 03 13:31 |
oiaohm | Its a added build flag. | Apr 03 13:31 |
DaemonFC | see what I mean | Apr 03 13:32 |
DaemonFC | why version check? | Apr 03 13:32 |
DaemonFC | you know what your distro uses | Apr 03 13:32 |
oiaohm | Go choke the package maker. | Apr 03 13:32 |
oiaohm | He added a flag. | Apr 03 13:32 |
oiaohm | The flag means all symbols used by application are versioned. | Apr 03 13:33 |
oiaohm | Problem is ALSA does not version all there symbols. | Apr 03 13:33 |
oiaohm | Build the ALSA driver with versioned sysbols you cause that. | Apr 03 13:33 |
DaemonFC | I emailed Scott Ritchie | Apr 03 13:35 |
oiaohm | It bit like debian building openssl with random disabled DaemonFC | Apr 03 13:35 |
DaemonFC | heh | Apr 03 13:35 |
DaemonFC | that's another act of blatant fucktardary on Debian's part | Apr 03 13:35 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu coped | Apr 03 13:35 |
oiaohm | copied | Apr 03 13:35 |
DaemonFC | yeah, Ubuntu is basically a refork of Debian Unstable every 6 months | Apr 03 13:36 |
DaemonFC | not completely, but mainly | Apr 03 13:36 |
oiaohm | You would think checking important secuirty things would be wise when reforking. | Apr 03 13:36 |
DaemonFC | they aren't smart enough | Apr 03 13:36 |
DaemonFC | they have an automatic repo clone utility | Apr 03 13:37 |
oiaohm | So human errors get missed. | Apr 03 13:37 |
DaemonFC | and some monkeys that know how to apply patches from Debian | Apr 03 13:37 |
DaemonFC | very few people at Ubuntu know their ass from next Tuesday | Apr 03 13:37 |
DaemonFC | and anyone that does gets hired by Red Hat | Apr 03 13:37 |
DaemonFC | :) | Apr 03 13:38 |
oiaohm | Debian is patch insane. | Apr 03 13:38 |
oiaohm | Lot of my debian has parts replaced. | Apr 03 13:38 |
DaemonFC | I can name one person in all of Ubuntu | Apr 03 13:38 |
DaemonFC | that is competent | Apr 03 13:39 |
oiaohm | We will not update. | Apr 03 13:39 |
oiaohm | We will patch. | Apr 03 13:39 |
oiaohm | Seams to be Debian and Ubuntu got it as well. | Apr 03 13:39 |
DaemonFC | Scott James Remnant | Apr 03 13:39 |
DaemonFC | he's fairly bright | Apr 03 13:39 |
oiaohm | Scott still over patches. | Apr 03 13:39 |
DaemonFC | probably has a nice career at Red hat at some point | Apr 03 13:39 |
oiaohm | Past a particular point you should just upgrade that package. | Apr 03 13:40 |
DaemonFC | I know | Apr 03 13:40 |
oiaohm | Patch on top of Patch can create problems. | Apr 03 13:40 |
DaemonFC | I cringe when I see like "ubuntu9" | Apr 03 13:40 |
DaemonFC | I'm thinking "You fucking idiots!" | Apr 03 13:40 |
DaemonFC | mmhm | Apr 03 13:40 |
oiaohm | So we agree on that point. | Apr 03 13:40 |
DaemonFC | they end up applying partial patches | Apr 03 13:41 |
DaemonFC | cause they depend on something that looks totally unrelated | Apr 03 13:41 |
DaemonFC | so they have to turn around and update that entire package again | Apr 03 13:41 |
DaemonFC | the next day | Apr 03 13:41 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 03 13:42 |
DaemonFC | X Server in Ubuntu is particularly heinous about that | Apr 03 13:42 |
oiaohm | Its lack of understanding the point of no return. | Apr 03 13:42 |
DaemonFC | I won't even update it anymore unless I have reason to give a shit | Apr 03 13:42 |
oiaohm | One something is altered so much you are basically forking it. | Apr 03 13:43 |
DaemonFC | cause I have to rebuild my fucking Nvidia driuver | Apr 03 13:43 |
DaemonFC | it's unreasonable | Apr 03 13:43 |
oiaohm | So items like Nvidia drivers screw up with it. | Apr 03 13:43 |
oiaohm | How are they to know that 1.6.0,,,, is a hugely incompadible fork. | Apr 03 13:44 |
DaemonFC | if it upgrades xserver-xorg-core you need to remove and reinstall nvidia | Apr 03 13:44 |
DaemonFC | unless you're using their module on their kernels | Apr 03 13:44 |
DaemonFC | :P | Apr 03 13:44 |
oiaohm | Also not updated as often as it should be. | Apr 03 13:45 |
DaemonFC | I had to edit the Nvidia kernel interface source | Apr 03 13:45 |
DaemonFC | to remove deprecated garbage | Apr 03 13:45 |
DaemonFC | that 2.6.29-git8 didn't like | Apr 03 13:45 |
oiaohm | I also only run stable version kernels. | Apr 03 13:46 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu kernel is a fork off the main. | Apr 03 13:46 |
DaemonFC | I won't run theirs | Apr 03 13:47 |
DaemonFC | unstable pile of shit | Apr 03 13:47 |
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oiaohm | Hmm ubuntu indepedant braches have not been touched since 2.6.26 | Apr 03 13:52 |
oiaohm | So they must have moved to taking from the front edge of the kernel without good testing. | Apr 03 13:53 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu alphas are as bad as Fedora diving. | Apr 03 13:53 |
schestowitz | Inquirer does TV now... http://intruders.tv/inqtv/200... | Apr 03 14:03 |
schestowitz | Microsoft To Officially Become a Monopoly in Russia < http://profy.com/2009/04/02/mi... > | Apr 03 14:07 |
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mib_ln72p7 | hi all | Apr 03 14:10 |
mib_ln72p7 | please can someone help me with regards to not being able to open a file | Apr 03 14:10 |
oiaohm | Hi mib_ln72p7 | Apr 03 14:10 |
schestowitz | Microsoft and Novell work as one: http://tirania.org/blog/archi... | Apr 03 14:11 |
schestowitz | Maybe that's what the "work as one" motto is about | Apr 03 14:11 |
schestowitz | Microsoft addicts developers to Windows and Novell addicts them to .NET and VS | Apr 03 14:11 |
schestowitz | mib_ln72p7: which file? | Apr 03 14:11 |
*DaemonFC rewrites schestowitz in a combination of C# with portions of message passing VB.Net | Apr 03 14:13 | |
DaemonFC | :) | Apr 03 14:13 |
mib_ln72p7 | well im currently at college and did a 4000 word assignment last night yet wen i tried to open the file, it says its corrupt (its a microsoft Word document) | Apr 03 14:14 |
DaemonFC | probably crashed before it got committed? | Apr 03 14:14 |
mib_ln72p7 | so would i be able to restore it? | Apr 03 14:15 |
DaemonFC | I think Microsoft had a doc repair utility at one point | Apr 03 14:16 |
DaemonFC | I really have no idea though | Apr 03 14:16 |
mib_ln72p7 | oh ok then | Apr 03 14:16 |
mib_ln72p7 | thanks | Apr 03 14:16 |
DaemonFC | I think it truncated the file | Apr 03 14:17 |
DaemonFC | so you could save at least some of it | Apr 03 14:17 |
DaemonFC | :) | Apr 03 14:17 |
oiaohm | try openoffice | Apr 03 14:23 |
oiaohm | Its more determined. | Apr 03 14:23 |
oiaohm | same with abiword. | Apr 03 14:24 |
oiaohm | They are more likely to open a part file than MS office. | Apr 03 14:24 |
mib_ln72p7 | well ive tried to use a file repair and all that but still no joy | Apr 03 14:33 |
schestowitz | What's in the file? Did you e-mail it to anyone prior to Word breaking it? | Apr 03 14:37 |
oiaohm | At least you did not have what I fixed today. | Apr 03 14:38 |
oiaohm | A person laptop was pretending to be in fresh install state. | Apr 03 14:39 |
oiaohm | So yep everything gone. | Apr 03 14:39 |
oiaohm | Bar windows. | Apr 03 14:39 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: some comments on 2.6.30: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/... | Apr 03 14:40 |
mib_ln72p7 | erm no i didnt email it | Apr 03 14:40 |
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schestowitz | Microsoft is banged by two superpowers in one day: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/03/mi... | Apr 03 14:50 |
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schestowitz | mib_ln72p7: if you renamed the file or move it around (less likely), then there is a meager chance if it being somewhere on the disc (recoverable) | Apr 03 14:51 |
schestowitz | Oh, he left | Apr 03 14:51 |
schestowitz | Microsoft Office has shown its great strengths just now. Ruining people's hard work and driving them to misery. Never happened to me with TeX or LyX in 8 years of use.... | Apr 03 14:52 |
MinceR | (offtopic) (java) (addictive) http://andyslife.org/ga... | Apr 03 14:52 |
schestowitz | In Soviet Russian, Microsoft fines | Apr 03 14:53 |
schestowitz | In Soviet Russian, Microsoft fines YOU | Apr 03 14:53 |
schestowitz | *Russia | Apr 03 14:54 |
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iwmw | is there soviet russia nowadays? | Apr 03 14:58 |
schestowitz | iwmw: it's a joke | Apr 03 15:00 |
schestowitz | Reversal | Apr 03 15:00 |
schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R... | Apr 03 15:01 |
schestowitz | The US seems to be letting MS control national security: Senate Legislation Would Federalize Cybersecurity < http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/c... > | Apr 03 15:01 |
schestowitz | Here is the post which summarises how Microsoft inherited DHS: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/... | Apr 03 15:02 |
iwmw | in soviet russia m$ pays YOU | Apr 03 15:03 |
iwmw | ^that's more likely | Apr 03 15:04 |
oiaohm | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/03/... Had to add a post TiVo-ization is more than just blocking root from editing stuff. | Apr 03 15:04 |
oiaohm | Normal selinux can do that. | Apr 03 15:04 |
schestowitz | "The MPAA says that box office attendance has been on the rise since the economy has tanked, with people looking to the "escape of the theater" to take their minds off more serious matters." < http://arstechnica.com/media/news... > | Apr 03 15:06 |
schestowitz | Been a long time since we last discuses economics here. I spend time speaking about it face to face almost every day... | Apr 03 15:06 |
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schestowitz | I suffer from a common typo: /s/Russian/Russia/ | Apr 03 15:23 |
schestowitz | Microsoft Announces new Linux MVP < http://developingux.com/2009/04/01/mic... > | Apr 03 15:28 |
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schestowitz | Old article on the failure of security: http://www.securityabsurdity.... | Apr 03 15:34 |
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schestowitz | ASUS is still with GNU/Linux... this time on phones: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/... | Apr 03 15:35 |
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schestowitz | New 'party line': The Open Source Enterprise Trap < http://www.h-online.com/open/The-Open-Source-E... > | Apr 03 15:42 |
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schestowitz | US tells ships to clean up fumes or stay away < http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn... > | Apr 03 15:43 |
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schestowitz | Russia for Free software: http://neteffect.foreignpolicy.com/post... "While the rest of the world has been battling Bill Gates' empire for almost two decades, it's only now that Russia has waken up to the challenge and has placed the company on a government antitrust watchlist." | Apr 03 15:47 |
schestowitz | http://www.computerworlduk.com/communit... "So that just leaves poor old MIDs as Moblin's heartland. The fact that Moblin is moving to the Linux Foundation – not a bad move in itself – suggests to me that its sponsors have realised that things have moved on, and that Moblin has served its purpose of getting people thinking about this space." | Apr 03 15:49 |
schestowitz | Is Moblin simply giving up to ARM/Linux and other embedded combos? | Apr 03 15:49 |
zer0c00l | user Open source software and open standards for IT based health reforms http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/03/... | Apr 03 15:50 |
schestowitz | Nice way of tracking politicians: http://ouseful.wordpress.com/200... | Apr 03 15:51 |
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Omar87 | Hi guys. | Apr 03 15:54 |
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Omar87 | I just HATE it when people talk to me about M$ as if it were the Lord of IT!!! >< | Apr 03 15:55 |
Omar87 | It aches me!! It friggin' hurts me!! | Apr 03 15:56 |
schestowitz | You can walk away | Apr 03 16:02 |
schestowitz | Microsoft injured progress in computing, esp. on desktops | Apr 03 16:02 |
schestowitz | Predictable... when you sell Windows for $4: "Microsoft losing control of netbooks" < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire... > | Apr 03 16:05 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: I know, but it really hurts. | Apr 03 16:07 |
schestowitz | Apart from typos, look at the FUD thrown by NPD: "Return rates [on Linux netbooks] were pretty high and that's why you don't seem them any more," Stephen Baker, vice president for industry analysis at NPD Techworld, told InternetNews.com. | Apr 03 16:07 |
schestowitz | http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news... This confirms NPD's bais in favour of Microsoft. The return rates area actually the same based on ASUS and Dell. | Apr 03 16:07 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: If you ever come to Jordan, and listen to those Microsoft dolls yapping bull crap about MS, you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about. | Apr 03 16:08 |
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schestowitz | We have enough of these"dolls" here. | Apr 03 16:08 |
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schestowitz | Just in: Shuttleworth: Vista 7 an Opportunity for Linux < http://www.internetnews.com/hardware/arti... > | Apr 03 16:11 |
schestowitz | It seems as though IBM will indeed be buying Sun and an announcement come within days. | Apr 03 16:12 |
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Balrog | yes, I've seen | Apr 03 16:13 |
Balrog | good or bad? | Apr 03 16:13 |
jose | schestowitz, i have a quick question ..trying to remember a particular quote from the ms exec ones | Apr 03 16:14 |
schestowitz | BBC headline: "Residents challenge Google camera" Compare to CNN: "Gang of villagers chase away Google car" | Apr 03 16:14 |
iwmw | is asus always linux compatible? | Apr 03 16:15 |
iwmw | i mean for desktops | Apr 03 16:15 |
schestowitz | Balrog: mostly bad, I think. | Apr 03 16:15 |
schestowitz | jose: how did the quote go? | Apr 03 16:15 |
jose | it's where an exec says something to the effect "once we give away a patent right we can't gain it back" | Apr 03 16:15 |
schestowitz | iwmw: yes, pretty much. Locked down though. They say ASUS' new phone will come with full source code. | Apr 03 16:16 |
iwmw | nice | Apr 03 16:16 |
schestowitz | jose: I can't recall such a quote | Apr 03 16:16 |
schestowitz | WHo said it? | Apr 03 16:16 |
jose | darn | Apr 03 16:16 |
schestowitz | One of the lawyers? | Apr 03 16:16 |
schestowitz | Microsoft has lots of them | Apr 03 16:16 |
jose | an exec i think | Apr 03 16:16 |
schestowitz | Microsoft just buys companies | Apr 03 16:16 |
iwmw | may be it's the first phone that i will buy in 4-5 years | Apr 03 16:16 |
schestowitz | And then hires lawyers | Apr 03 16:16 |
schestowitz | And peripheral agencies to shill, e.g. Edelman, LawMedia, W-E... | Apr 03 16:17 |
schestowitz | iwmw: see http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/04... | Apr 03 16:17 |
iwmw | is skype opensourced? | Apr 03 16:18 |
PetoKraus | good joke | Apr 03 16:19 |
jose | schestowitz, i think this http://meandubuntu.wordpress.co... is ushimitsudoki's websites and i saw it there.. let me check | Apr 03 16:20 |
schestowitz | jose: yes, it is | Apr 03 16:20 |
*iwmw is obviously not buying a phone based on skype | Apr 03 16:20 | |
iwmw | even though it's linux | Apr 03 16:20 |
schestowitz | I want to go through it carefully at some stage. It has good picks | Apr 03 16:20 |
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_Hicham_ | Hi folks | Apr 03 16:22 |
schestowitz | Hi | Apr 03 16:22 |
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schestowitz | Conficker Conflunks < http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/... > | Apr 03 16:24 |
schestowitz | I.B.M. Reportedly Will Buy Rival Sun for $7 Billion < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/techno... > PS: Ashlee quit The Register, which sinks | Apr 03 16:27 |
schestowitz | April Fool's for OLPC: http://www.olpcnews.com/countries/us... | Apr 03 16:30 |
schestowitz | The very latest on TomTom (it gets boringly repetitive): http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?st... | Apr 03 16:31 |
schestowitz | BoycottNovell traffic now exceeds 6.5GB/per day, on average. We outgrew Groklaw. | Apr 03 16:36 |
PetoKraus | right guys | Apr 03 16:36 |
PetoKraus | who knows how to start your own company | Apr 03 16:36 |
PetoKraus | in UK | Apr 03 16:37 |
schestowitz | To /start/? | Apr 03 16:37 |
PetoKraus | yeah | Apr 03 16:37 |
PetoKraus | i mean | Apr 03 16:37 |
schestowitz | Not a good time to start one | Apr 03 16:37 |
schestowitz | No VC | Apr 03 16:37 |
PetoKraus | what sort of legalese there is | Apr 03 16:37 |
schestowitz | No moneyflow | Apr 03 16:37 |
PetoKraus | VC? | Apr 03 16:37 |
schestowitz | Venture Capital | Apr 03 16:37 |
schestowitz | You couldn't get investments to start it up | Apr 03 16:37 |
PetoKraus | don't worry, we're targeting good market | Apr 03 16:37 |
schestowitz | Or a loan from the bank even | Apr 03 16:37 |
PetoKraus | we don't need much | Apr 03 16:37 |
PetoKraus | it's supposed to be support team | Apr 03 16:37 |
schestowitz | And even if you set up a business, few people spend | Apr 03 16:37 |
schestowitz | Medicine is a strong area | Apr 03 16:38 |
PetoKraus | i mean something i do at work now | Apr 03 16:38 |
schestowitz | Chemisty too | Apr 03 16:38 |
PetoKraus | but just personal, between me and my workmate | Apr 03 16:38 |
schestowitz | because these are scarcely affected by a depression. People's health can't be curtailed. | Apr 03 16:38 |
PetoKraus | the idea is to provide help to people in the evenings | Apr 03 16:38 |
PetoKraus | target students | Apr 03 16:38 |
PetoKraus | low prices | Apr 03 16:38 |
schestowitz | That's possible | Apr 03 16:38 |
PetoKraus | you get the thinking | Apr 03 16:38 |
schestowitz | Microsoft likes it when people do it for free | Apr 03 16:38 |
schestowitz | Suppoting Windows free of charge | Apr 03 16:39 |
schestowitz | Or even for pay | Apr 03 16:39 |
PetoKraus | well i am not microsoft | Apr 03 16:39 |
schestowitz | It's a Big Scam | Apr 03 16:39 |
PetoKraus | so | Apr 03 16:39 |
PetoKraus | do you know what's needed to set up something like this? | Apr 03 16:39 |
schestowitz | The scam is mentioned here about 1 hours into the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch... | Apr 03 16:39 |
schestowitz | PetoKraus: there's a standard procedure | Apr 03 16:39 |
PetoKraus | yeah | Apr 03 16:40 |
schestowitz | you can't find something on Google | Apr 03 16:40 |
PetoKraus | that's what i'm looking for | Apr 03 16:40 |
PetoKraus | well, i don't know what to look for | Apr 03 16:40 |
schestowitz | Depends on the coutnry, so try google.co.uk | Apr 03 16:40 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : we need IP | Apr 03 16:40 |
_Hicham_ | people have the right to gain some money from what they do | Apr 03 16:40 |
schestowitz | PetoKraus: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&... | Apr 03 16:41 |
_Hicham_ | but IP shouldn't last more than 5 years | Apr 03 16:41 |
schestowitz | First few results seem appropriate | Apr 03 16:41 |
schestowitz | IP.. moving to IPv6 soon :-) | Apr 03 16:41 |
schestowitz | The other IP is fictionary | Apr 03 16:41 |
schestowitz | fictitious I mean | Apr 03 16:41 |
schestowitz | Bundle for separate laws. | Apr 03 16:42 |
schestowitz | "Bureau of Labor Statistics this morning, which reported that companies in the United States chopped 663,000 jobs from their payrolls in March, boosting the unemployment rate to 8.5 per cent." http://www.channelregister.co.uk/20... | Apr 03 16:42 |
schestowitz | It's a lie | Apr 03 16:42 |
schestowitz | The real unemployment would be around 14% (at least) | Apr 03 16:42 |
_Hicham_ | Europe predicts than unemployment rate will hit 20% | Apr 03 16:43 |
schestowitz | They count it differently for optimism. People who give up or whose time looking'expires' don't get counted. There are also unknown people who are left out from such surveys | Apr 03 16:43 |
schestowitz | uk's real unemployment rate is a mystery | Apr 03 16:43 |
schestowitz | Like national debt | Apr 03 16:43 |
schestowitz | People are told lies | Apr 03 16:43 |
schestowitz | Yesterday at the gym this guy thought it would be *gap* over 100bn next year | Apr 03 16:44 |
schestowitz | Total unadulterated BS. It's more like 2tr already | Apr 03 16:44 |
schestowitz | Real unemployment rate at three million, Tories claim < http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news... > | Apr 03 16:44 |
_Hicham_ | that is liberal economy | Apr 03 16:45 |
schestowitz | Last Updated: 6:43PM BST 18 Sep 2008 (much worse now) | Apr 03 16:45 |
_Hicham_ | u have to deal with that | Apr 03 16:45 |
_Hicham_ | u can't even do some protectionism now | Apr 03 16:45 |
_Hicham_ | coz it is old | Apr 03 16:45 |
_Hicham_ | so u can't face China | Apr 03 16:45 |
schestowitz | "Chris Grayling, the party's work and spokesman secretary, said that around 12.4 per cent of the workforce - nearly five million people - were "under-employed" because they could find only part-time work or were stuck on benefits." | Apr 03 16:45 |
schestowitz | That was before the collapse of Wall Street and UK banks | Apr 03 16:45 |
schestowitz | Sept 30 (ish) | Apr 03 16:46 |
_Hicham_ | China's products will kill Europe/US economy | Apr 03 16:46 |
_Hicham_ | and there is nothing to do about it | Apr 03 16:46 |
schestowitz | "Will"? | Apr 03 16:46 |
schestowitz | The US has been relying on Chinese merchanise for ages | Apr 03 16:46 |
schestowitz | Same here in the UK | Apr 03 16:46 |
schestowitz | Who do you think made the monitors that I use ATM? or the keyboard? | Apr 03 16:47 |
_Hicham_ | I am talking about other products | Apr 03 16:47 |
_Hicham_ | not tech products | Apr 03 16:47 |
schestowitz | The big mistakes is to characterise some jobs as "knowledge workers" (ugly term) | Apr 03 16:47 |
schestowitz | Which means "We sit there pushing paper in WTC while kids in Vietnam make Nike shoes" | Apr 03 16:48 |
_Hicham_ | yes | Apr 03 16:48 |
_Hicham_ | and there is nothing to do about it | Apr 03 16:48 |
_Hicham_ | no one can face China | Apr 03 16:48 |
schestowitz | http://regmedia.co.uk/2008/11/... | Apr 03 16:48 |
schestowitz | China defeated pricing | Apr 03 16:49 |
schestowitz | Like price-fixing over | Apr 03 16:49 |
_Hicham_ | China have more than 40 millions of prisoners | Apr 03 16:49 |
schestowitz | They lower wages and working conditions (hours) | Apr 03 16:49 |
_Hicham_ | all of them are workers | Apr 03 16:49 |
schestowitz | So you match that cost or perish | Apr 03 16:49 |
schestowitz | China does to 'us' what FOSS does to Microsoft/Windows | Apr 03 16:49 |
_Hicham_ | they don't pay them sometimes (prisoners) | Apr 03 16:49 |
_Hicham_ | so FOSS is communism? | Apr 03 16:50 |
schestowitz | No. | Apr 03 16:50 |
schestowitz | Communism is something else | Apr 03 16:50 |
schestowitz | One form of socialism | Apr 03 16:50 |
schestowitz | Globalisation could now change things radically | Apr 03 16:50 |
schestowitz | It's worse than the name suggests --Globalisation | Apr 03 16:51 |
schestowitz | Think of "rendition" or "enhanced interrogation" | Apr 03 16:51 |
schestowitz | Globalisation can be more like slavery | Apr 03 16:51 |
_Hicham_ | it is already a slavery | Apr 03 16:51 |
_Hicham_ | we are slaves to the US | Apr 03 16:51 |
schestowitz | In most places -- yes | Apr 03 16:51 |
schestowitz | yes to the former | Apr 03 16:52 |
_Hicham_ | we can't get compiled without the US headers | Apr 03 16:52 |
schestowitz | The anomaly was bound to end | Apr 03 16:52 |
schestowitz | Economical imbalance | Apr 03 16:52 |
schestowitz | Disparity in working conditions | Apr 03 16:52 |
_Hicham_ | gcc - c shestowitz.c -I ./US | Apr 03 16:53 |
_Hicham_ | gcc shestowitz.o -L ./US | Apr 03 16:53 |
_Hicham_ | no one can escape the US | Apr 03 16:53 |
_Hicham_ | but if it collapses, that would be another problem | Apr 03 16:54 |
_Hicham_ | the transition will be very hard | Apr 03 16:54 |
schestowitz | Here in the UK MPs are not concerned about availability of drug to students: http://www.theregister.co.uk/... | Apr 03 16:54 |
_Hicham_ | do u do drugs Roy? | Apr 03 16:55 |
schestowitz | The funny thing is that people are taught not to drink or smoke but at the same the same time assumed that they'll do it anyway... not the same with copyright infingement. | Apr 03 16:55 |
schestowitz | No, never done drugs | Apr 03 16:55 |
schestowitz | Just the 'alcohol' drug. | Apr 03 16:56 |
schestowitz | Alcohol too is a drug | Apr 03 16:56 |
_Hicham_ | ah, so u drink? | Apr 03 16:56 |
schestowitz | So the question should be whether one did /illegal/ drugs. That too depends on location. | Apr 03 16:56 |
_Hicham_ | Alcohol is a drug | Apr 03 16:56 |
_Hicham_ | Cigarettes are drug | Apr 03 16:56 |
schestowitz | coke | Apr 03 16:56 |
schestowitz | But all of these are legal | Apr 03 16:57 |
schestowitz | And lethal | Apr 03 16:57 |
_Hicham_ | everything that u can get addicted to is a drug | Apr 03 16:57 |
schestowitz | Coke a little less | Apr 03 16:57 |
schestowitz | More addictive than harmful | Apr 03 16:57 |
_Hicham_ | hashish is legal in Netherlands | Apr 03 16:57 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, but some addictives have side effects that are harmful | Apr 03 16:57 |
schestowitz | Some do not | Apr 03 16:57 |
_Hicham_ | like for instance? | Apr 03 16:57 |
_Hicham_ | give me a drug that it is not harmful? | Apr 03 16:58 |
schestowitz | Many habits | Apr 03 16:58 |
schestowitz | Collecting stamps can be addictive | Apr 03 16:58 |
schestowitz | It's a spychological dependency | Apr 03 16:58 |
_Hicham_ | it is not a drug | Apr 03 16:58 |
_Hicham_ | it is an addiction | Apr 03 16:58 |
schestowitz | It's an addictive habit | Apr 03 16:58 |
schestowitz | Not a cdrug | Apr 03 16:58 |
schestowitz | But it can stimulate the brain in certain ways | Apr 03 16:58 |
_Hicham_ | we can add to this ur addiction to MS | Apr 03 16:58 |
schestowitz | To induce drugs/hormones/whatever | Apr 03 16:58 |
_Hicham_ | it is an addiction | Apr 03 16:58 |
_Hicham_ | ur r addicted to MS | Apr 03 16:59 |
schestowitz | Just like women have periods | Apr 03 16:59 |
schestowitz | Or exercise affects the mind | Apr 03 16:59 |
schestowitz | Because of chemical the body releases | Apr 03 16:59 |
schestowitz | *cals | Apr 03 16:59 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: maybe dependency or lockin | Apr 03 16:59 |
schestowitz | Less to do with addiction in MS' case | Apr 03 16:59 |
schestowitz | You could say that love is a similar trait to addiction | Apr 03 17:00 |
schestowitz | In the same that in both cases you have the element of yearning | Apr 03 17:00 |
_Hicham_ | u should call oiaohm to optimize the dependency | Apr 03 17:00 |
schestowitz | And physical/mental impulses. | Apr 03 17:00 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: you got a man.crush() on oiaohm? | Apr 03 17:00 |
_Hicham_ | I like to tease u both | Apr 03 17:01 |
_Hicham_ | :D | Apr 03 17:01 |
schestowitz | \OK | Apr 03 17:01 |
schestowitz | Friendliness | Apr 03 17:01 |
schestowitz | Nothing wrong with that | Apr 03 17:01 |
_Hicham_ | do u have kids? | Apr 03 17:01 |
iwmw | schestowitz: all addictives have harmful effects | Apr 03 17:01 |
schestowitz | China may lead the way (a little scary): http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02... (China Vies to Be World's Leader in Electric Cars) | Apr 03 17:02 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: Not yet | Apr 03 17:02 |
_Hicham_ | India made a $2000 car | Apr 03 17:02 |
iwmw | how does it look? | Apr 03 17:02 |
schestowitz | Now would also be a bad time to start families. One friend of mine abstains from having kids with his partner because of the economy. | Apr 03 17:03 |
schestowitz | I don't think she and him have enough job security to i'nvest' in something for the next two decades | Apr 03 17:03 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: good for India | Apr 03 17:03 |
iwmw | is it a girl that he doesn't want to have a kids with? | Apr 03 17:04 |
schestowitz | iwmw: no idea what it looks like | Apr 03 17:04 |
schestowitz | China will probably copy designs from the west | Apr 03 17:04 |
schestowitz | iwmw: what does that mean? | Apr 03 17:04 |
_Hicham_ | http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/23/ta... | Apr 03 17:04 |