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04.05.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 4th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 1:05 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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DaemonFC You fork it, you incur tons of additional maintenance cost Apr 04 03:54
DaemonFC for little benefit Apr 04 03:54
oiaohm And all the UNIX forks of BSD? Apr 04 03:55
oiaohm Vendor locking so people cannot change out weights the maintenance costs at that stage. Apr 04 03:55
oiaohm Nothing stops you from using 99.9 percent BSD code with a .1 percent custom userlock in patch. Apr 04 03:56
oiaohm So the maintaince for gain is bugger all DaemonFC Apr 04 03:56
oiaohm Even Windows contains some BSD code that MS has never ever published any alterations they have ever done on it. Apr 04 03:57
DaemonFC and they have that already Apr 04 03:57
DaemonFC it’s called distributions Apr 04 03:57
oiaohm You see distributions as unbreakable vendor lock in. Apr 04 03:58
oiaohm they are not. Apr 04 03:58
oiaohm do you know what a chroot in Linux allows you todo  DaemonFC Apr 04 03:58
oiaohm Basically install another distribution inside your current 1. Apr 04 03:58
DaemonFC yeah Apr 04 03:59
DaemonFC you can do that in Solaris too Apr 04 03:59
DaemonFC and install CentOS Apr 04 03:59
oiaohm Branded zones Apr 04 03:59
oiaohm Yep that solaris added to try to slow there loss of market to linux. Apr 04 04:00
oiaohm Distributions biggest cause of lock in is the X11 server. Apr 04 04:00
oiaohm Mostly due to X11 server poor design. Apr 04 04:00
oiaohm New design addresses those problems. Apr 04 04:00
oiaohm The time of the Linux Distribution lockin is coming to a end. Apr 04 04:01
oiaohm Virtualisation is one of the forces of unification. Apr 04 04:02
oiaohm The other is what the Linux Standard Base is upto. Apr 04 04:02
oiaohm The Linux Distribution mess always had a limited time frame.   When it started there was always though the would only be one Distribution in the end left standing. Apr 04 04:04
oiaohm The idea of vendor lock in on Linux is nothing more than a trick.   BSD forks on the other hand its more than real.  Altered excutable formats syscalls and so on to the point of incompadibly with no documentation. Apr 04 04:06
oiaohm And people like you DaemonFC fall for it. Apr 04 04:07
_Hicham_ oiaohm : is KMS available for 2.6.28? Apr 04 04:11
oiaohm _Hicham_: as a custom applied patch. Apr 04 04:11
_Hicham_ and in 2.6.29 by default? Apr 04 04:12
oiaohm KMS alters kernel panic so it will be always displayed. Apr 04 04:12
oiaohm 2.6.29 if you have intel card. Apr 04 04:12
oiaohm Anything else is a custom patch. Apr 04 04:12
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oiaohm By 2.6.31 we should have all common cards with KMS. Apr 04 04:12
_Hicham_ ATI still not supporting it? Apr 04 04:13
oiaohm ATI will be supporting it. Apr 04 04:13
oiaohm Its a simple case of getting all the code up to the point its good enough to kernel merge. Apr 04 04:13
oiaohm VIA will be supporting it as well. Apr 04 04:14
_Hicham_ wow Apr 04 04:14
oiaohm Nvidia could the the one out sider. Apr 04 04:14
oiaohm first the be Apr 04 04:14
_Hicham_ so plymouth will be available for all distros? Apr 04 04:14
oiaohm Maybe maybe not. Apr 04 04:14
oiaohm plymouth is not a required part for operation. Apr 04 04:14
_Hicham_ i mean all distros can use it? Apr 04 04:16
_Hicham_ i know it is not requiered… Apr 04 04:16
oiaohm Its choose to. Apr 04 04:16
oiaohm They might choose something else that configures diffenetly to what plymouth does. Apr 04 04:17
_Hicham_ it is the prettiest graphical boot for the moment Apr 04 04:17
_Hicham_ I think MS will copy it Apr 04 04:17
oiaohm Problem is in future will it be. Apr 04 04:17
oiaohm the best. Apr 04 04:18
oiaohm MS has taken away users means to change boot graphic _Hicham_ Apr 04 04:18
oiaohm Thinking Linux standard boot time is planed to get down to less than 5 seconds. Apr 04 04:18
oiaohm You will not really be looking at the boot screen for long. Apr 04 04:18
_Hicham_ the 5 seconds is still far Apr 04 04:19
_Hicham_ we are not there yet Apr 04 04:19
oiaohm We know what is in way. Apr 04 04:19
oiaohm Its just getting the code corrected. Apr 04 04:19
_Hicham_ the patches done by Intel won’t be merged soon Apr 04 04:19
oiaohm You can have 5 seconds today with patches that cause instablity. Apr 04 04:19
_Hicham_ are these patches available? Apr 04 04:20
oiaohm fastboot branch of the Linux kernel. Apr 04 04:20
oiaohm They are being altered to more stable form and slowly merged into the main kernel. Apr 04 04:20
oiaohm Most people have not noticed the slow but sure drop in the start up time of the main kernel before init starts. Apr 04 04:21
oiaohm A year ago it was over 14 seconds these days its under 7. Apr 04 04:21
_Hicham_ the 2.6.29 is slower Apr 04 04:21
oiaohm It has to get to 1. Apr 04 04:21
oiaohm 2.6.29 is slightly faster in the to init process mesurement than 2.6.28 Apr 04 04:22
_Hicham_ so the init is the cause? Apr 04 04:22
oiaohm Filesystem alteration. Apr 04 04:23
oiaohm Cleaned up one problem caused a slowdown on ext3 Apr 04 04:23
_Hicham_ it is very interesting to boot in 5 seconds Apr 04 04:25
oiaohm Boot process is highly sentivie to lots of minor alteratins. Apr 04 04:25
oiaohm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7NxCM8ryF8  << boot in 5 secound including login _Hicham_ Apr 04 04:27
_Hicham_ i seen this about Moblin Apr 04 04:28
_Hicham_ so we can install Moblin on usual notebooks? Apr 04 04:28
_Hicham_ or it is just for netbooks? Apr 04 04:28
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oiaohm Modlin can be instaled on basically anything. Apr 04 04:29
oiaohm Its more of a research project of how far can you push Linux. Apr 04 04:29
_Hicham_ did u try it? Apr 04 04:29
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oiaohm I have tried fastboot alterations with normal distributions. Apr 04 04:32
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schestowitz Hey Apr 04 08:31
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amarsh04 hi schestowitz… just ordered and picked up a new pc… have yet to install anything on it Apr 04 09:46
schestowitz What will you install? Apr 04 09:47
amarsh04 Debian amd64 unstable Apr 04 09:48
PetoKraus go arch Apr 04 09:48
PetoKraus :P Apr 04 09:48
amarsh04 a friend in .us has the same motherboard and reported no problems with it Apr 04 09:48
amarsh04 the motherboard disk supposedly includes “expressgate” Apr 04 09:49
amarsh04 salesperson at the computer store was wearing a ubuntu t-shirt  (-: Apr 04 09:50
amarsh04 I ordered it around noon, was told it would be ready mid-week and was called around 3pm to pick it up Apr 04 09:52
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PetoKraus it’s a slow day today, ain’t it Apr 04 11:19
schestowitz Analyst: YouTube Will Lose Almost $500 Million This Year < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/… > Apr 04 11:25
schestowitz Analyst: YouTube Will Lose Almost $500 Million This Year < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-googl… >. Well, at least they’ll stay alive this way. Apr 04 11:26
PetoKraus i wish the’d die Apr 04 11:31
PetoKraus it’d take down flash as well Apr 04 11:31
PetoKraus well Apr 04 11:31
PetoKraus i always forget they are google’s Apr 04 11:31
oiaohm The html 5 support for direct videos most likely will have to be considered by google. Apr 04 11:35
PetoKraus well Apr 04 11:35
PetoKraus it’d be no good for them Apr 04 11:35
oiaohm That would cut youtubes bandwith usage. Apr 04 11:35
PetoKraus well, maybe a bit Apr 04 11:36
oiaohm Every little bit counts. Apr 04 11:36
PetoKraus but you would be able to abstract the data from the page more easily Apr 04 11:36
oiaohm Some videos on there are provided with download options already. Apr 04 11:37
oiaohm So cutting out flash module to play and reduced download size of page. Apr 04 11:37
oiaohm It would all add up. Apr 04 11:37
PetoKraus well Apr 04 11:38
PetoKraus what i think iw Apr 04 11:38
PetoKraus *is Apr 04 11:38
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oiaohm Silverlight has the same problem. Apr 04 11:39
oiaohm Idea that bandwidth costs nothing is going to come back and effect the ideas of flash and silverlight. Apr 04 11:40
PetoKraus it’d make it dead easy for other people to extract “video” tag only Apr 04 11:40
PetoKraus and bypass all ads Apr 04 11:41
PetoKraus that’s what i was getting to Apr 04 11:41
PetoKraus :) Apr 04 11:41
PetoKraus i know there’s youtube-dl now anyway Apr 04 11:41
oiaohm Basically is not going to make a difference. Apr 04 11:42
oiaohm Current deals by google is embeded advertising in the video stream. Apr 04 11:43
oiaohm Ie the stuff you cannot just simply use something like miro to download stuff direct. Apr 04 11:43
oiaohm And avoid ads. Apr 04 11:43
PetoKraus yeah Apr 04 11:43
PetoKraus that’d be good Apr 04 11:43
oiaohm Basically youtube will be come freetv. Apr 04 11:43
PetoKraus i’m too lazy to enable ads on pages i visit Apr 04 11:44
PetoKraus like phoronix, for example Apr 04 11:44
schestowitz Here is my last coverage of the TomTom case, for now: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… Apr 04 11:49
oiaohm Let the next wave begin. Apr 04 11:50
schestowitz oiaohm: if YouTube supports Ogg they can embed ads in the videos Apr 04 11:50
schestowitz Think about it: give people Ogg files, hard-code some ads or whatever to sponsor this Apr 04 11:50
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oiaohm flv can be transcoded into Ogg without much trouble. Apr 04 11:53
PetoKraus yeah Apr 04 11:57
PetoKraus mplayer ;) Apr 04 11:57
schestowitz I use ffmpeg Apr 04 12:01
schestowitz ffmpeg2theora -p preview –sync video.flv Apr 04 12:01
oiaohm Boy some strange and wacky things are starting to appear in linux kernel mailing list.   x86 disasmbler built into kernel. Apr 04 12:01
schestowitz WHat for? Kernel panic reports or something? Apr 04 12:05
oiaohm Main kernel maintainers asking same question. Apr 04 12:06
oiaohm Total desciption for patch is x86 disasmbler api for kernel. Apr 04 12:07
oiaohm That is it no suggesting where it would be used or how. Apr 04 12:07
oiaohm Yes wacky. Apr 04 12:07
oiaohm Suppose had to start happening the list of items not merged is getting short. Apr 04 12:08
schestowitz They should pass over KDE4 for Linus to merge into Linux, as well. Apr 04 12:13
schestowitz You know how much Linus loves KDE4 (4.0)… they should mail him all the patches… which his pine client might choke on Apr 04 12:14
oiaohm Most stuff on the not merged list that a kernel needs is the hard stuff to do. Apr 04 12:15
oiaohm Like proper real time os support. Apr 04 12:15
oiaohm I am finding it funny Lot of the people in Linux haters are trying to write Linux off as dead with no hope ever of getting desktop share. Apr 04 12:44
amarsh04 I tried out the 2.6.26 code with realtime patch… the published stats for it were impressive Apr 04 12:52
oiaohm So will be GEM with direct video card access for applications when it gets rolling. Apr 04 13:01
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MinceR geekings Apr 04 13:18
PetoKraus nice link from Glyn Moody there Apr 04 13:20
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schestowitz PetoKraus: : which one? The “bad news”? Apr 04 13:33
PetoKraus well, the google/microsoft one Apr 04 13:35
PetoKraus you had it in news summary yesterday Apr 04 13:35
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schestowitz Yes, I remember that. Microsoft loves also copyright for anything… unless it can misuse it. Right now it’s busy with ‘IPR’ propaganda (against Google over content and Linux over code). Apr 04 14:30
PetoKraus i might do some linux evangelism on next saturday Apr 04 14:44
PetoKraus a customer told me he’s interested in learning new things Apr 04 14:44
PetoKraus we shall see how he likes it. Apr 04 14:44
schestowitz Why is this man promoting MS ‘pseudopen source’ and Mono wares from former Microsofters..? http://arstechnica.com/software/news… Apr 04 15:04
schestowitz Fedora 11 has a nice wallpaper, but the rest looks similar: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2… Apr 04 15:06
schestowitz PetoKraus: promote something that does not contain Mono (e.g. Ubuntu) Apr 04 15:07
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Omar87 Hi all. Apr 04 15:09
schestowitz GNOME is ‘pulling a KDE4′: Gnome answers Linux critics with ‘big’ vision plan < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/… > Apr 04 15:09
Omar87 schestowitz: Hey. Apr 04 15:10
Omar87 schestowitz: How’s going? Apr 04 15:11
Omar87 How’s *it* Apr 04 15:11
schestowitz Yo, all it well Apr 04 15:11
schestowitz Japan goes to the moon.. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/0… Apr 04 15:11
schestowitz Linux taking just 1 watt: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/N… Apr 04 15:16
schestowitz Omar87: see if you can vote for this one: http://www.fsdaily.com/Legal/Patents_Rou… Apr 04 15:19
schestowitz iPhone 3.0 Beta Pwned! < http://www.itwire.com/content/… > Apr 04 15:21
schestowitz Microblogging for activists? http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/… (Twitter on the front line) Apr 04 15:24
Omar87 schestowitz: Is it Jay Freeman again? Apr 04 15:38
schestowitz I don’t know :-( Apr 04 15:39
amarsh04 I wouldn’t mind 1 Watt Linux – could that run irssi and an ethernet port? (-: Apr 04 15:39
*amarsh04 notices the ethernet port on the I/O board of said device Apr 04 15:42
Balrog_ what about Jay Freeman…..? Apr 04 16:10
Balrog_ the iPhone 3.0 beta? not this time. He’s not doing the jailbreak, rather the installer Apr 04 16:11
Balrog_ (apt clone) Apr 04 16:11
schestowitz Isn’t Apple going to crack down on him? Apr 04 16:30
PetoKraus schestowitz: ofc Apr 04 16:30
schestowitz It has history of doing some things like that before–going personal Apr 04 16:30
Balrog so far they haven’t. Apr 04 16:31
*schestowitz just spent like an hour on the phone… Apr 04 16:31
schestowitz Balrog: maybe they estimate PR damage Apr 04 16:31
Balrog it would be in their best interest not to, I think. Apr 04 16:31
schestowitz Luckily, a lot of people give them flak when they do this Apr 04 16:32
Balrog_ (yes, mainly because it would be a PR nightmare) Apr 04 16:32
schestowitz Google too. People no longer buy the “do no evil” defense” so cheaply Apr 04 16:32
schestowitz IIRC, Google’s value now exceeds that of IBM. It’s no longer little cuddly Google… Apr 04 16:32
schestowitz Or poor Apple whose business is at Microsoft’s mercy.. Apr 04 16:33
schestowitz The PR nightmare situations prevent many things, such as SCO bullying PJ, Novell demanding that BN  removes mentioning of their trademarks, etc. Apr 04 16:33
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Omar87 lol! Apr 04 16:55
Omar87 A couple of days ago when I told a .NET and M$ fanboi at my college that I use Python he said: “Oh, but Python has died a long time ago!”.. :D Apr 04 16:56
Omar87 What a pathetic ignorant. :) Apr 04 16:57
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_Hicham_ Hi Roy! Apr 04 18:14
_Hicham_ how r u doing? Apr 04 18:14
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PetoKraus Omar87: yeah, that’s why i’m not studying CS anymore Apr 04 18:32
PetoKraus full of ignorants Apr 04 18:32
schestowitz I’m back Apr 04 18:33
schestowitz Omar87: tell your friend about that ‘deal’ company called Google, which uses Python very extensively for a lot of its operations Apr 04 18:34
schestowitz /s/deal/dead/ Apr 04 18:34
_Hicham_ were u at the gym? Apr 04 18:35
schestowitz If Python is dead, then Google must have missed the memo. http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/… Watch how it jumped this year Apr 04 18:37
schestowitz _Hicham_: yes Apr 04 18:37
schestowitz Omar87: the chart shows demand for Python skills in the UK. Apr 04 18:38
_Hicham_ Google is emotionally related to Python Apr 04 18:38
_Hicham_ Google loves Python Apr 04 18:38
schestowitz Python generates IRC logs for #boytcottnovell Apr 04 18:39
schestowitz This is days old: http://techczar.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/… Apr 04 18:39
schestowitz Google searches for holy grail of Python performance: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/n… Apr 04 18:39
schestowitz Recent: Python Fans Take Aim at the Enterprise < http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.p… > Apr 04 18:40
_Hicham_ Python can beat Java easily Apr 04 18:40
schestowitz The Evolution of Python 3 < http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/01/th… > Python >> MSFT. It will eat it for the FUD its boosters are spreading. Apr 04 18:40
_Hicham_ Bruce Eckel himself loves Python Apr 04 18:40
schestowitz Let Ballmer mock Google Apr 04 18:41
schestowitz With his .NET drek :-) Python continues to devour Microsoft’s market share. Apr 04 18:41
_Hicham_ there is a Python Plugin for Visual Studio Apr 04 18:41
schestowitz _Hicham_: Java and Python are different Apr 04 18:41
_Hicham_ schestowitz : how? Apr 04 18:41
schestowitz For scripting and processing that’s simple Java is less suitable Apr 04 18:41
schestowitz Microsoft is trying to devour Python using .NET garbage Apr 04 18:42
schestowitz Sun try JPython. Apr 04 18:42
schestowitz *tried Apr 04 18:42
_Hicham_ Python can do whatever Java can do Apr 04 18:42
_Hicham_ in less code Apr 04 18:42
_Hicham_ and easily Apr 04 18:42
_Hicham_ It is just a marketing issue Apr 04 18:43
schestowitz I’m not sure Apr 04 18:43
schestowitz VMs in Python? Apr 04 18:43
schestowitz How about building with reusable objects? Python is not OOP unless there some variant of it which I doubt Apr 04 18:44
_Hicham_ Python is OOP Apr 04 18:44
_Hicham_ u can reuse everything Apr 04 18:44
schestowitz http://ostatic.com/blog/as-rumors-swirl-ab… -< Apparently it’s just an ad deal Apr 04 18:45
schestowitz I thought of it as imperative Apr 04 18:48
schestowitz But you’re right, it’s object oriented to Apr 04 18:48
schestowitz It’s multi-paradigm Apr 04 18:48
Omar87 PetoKraus: So are you not sutdying CS? Apr 04 18:48
PetoKraus Omar87: chemistry Apr 04 18:49
schestowitz But I’m used to seeing it parsing stuff Apr 04 18:49
_Hicham_ schestowitz : u under-estimated Python Apr 04 18:49
_Hicham_ Python API is more powerful than Java’s Apr 04 18:49
_Hicham_ and remember, Python, is less code than Java Apr 04 18:50
schestowitz That I know Apr 04 18:50
schestowitz But… Apr 04 18:50
schestowitz It seems to me like new programmers are taught Java for simplicity Apr 04 18:51
_Hicham_ Java is not simple Apr 04 18:51
_Hicham_ it is very complicated compared to Python Apr 04 18:51
Omar87 _Hicham_: At least not as simple as Python. Apr 04 18:51
Omar87 _Hicham_: Exactly. :) Apr 04 18:52
_Hicham_ to open a file, u need at least ten lines of code Apr 04 18:52
_Hicham_ while in Python, it is one line Apr 04 18:52
balzac don’t forget, python is the language of choice for blender and gimp Apr 04 18:52
balzac scripting language Apr 04 18:52
_Hicham_ yes Apr 04 18:52
Omar87 ;) Apr 04 18:52
_Hicham_ and plugins too Apr 04 18:52
benJIman And thanks to ironpython you can run it on .net. Apr 04 18:52
_Hicham_ Gnome uses it extensively Apr 04 18:52
balzac gnome is looking better to me lately Apr 04 18:53
_Hicham_ schestowitz : we are even with MS Apr 04 18:53
_Hicham_ they want us to do .NET, and we want them to do Python Apr 04 18:53
balzac finding the emacs key-bindings already supported for default gnome text window behavior was nice Apr 04 18:53
Omar87 _Hicham_: About a month ago, a friend of mine challenged me that Python can handle extensive Video streaming for a large website as good as Java. :) Apr 04 18:53
balzac but mono really has to go Apr 04 18:53
Omar87 can’t* Apr 04 18:54
_Hicham_ Omar87: personally, I find Java less attracting Apr 04 18:54
_Hicham_ though I used it a lot Apr 04 18:54
Omar87 _Hicham_: Same here. Apr 04 18:54
schestowitz mono is about containing devs in .nyet Apr 04 18:54
Omar87 _Hicham_: But I’ve never really used it before.. Apr 04 18:55
schestowitz bridge wo windows Apr 04 18:55
_Hicham_ schestowitz : we have to release a Python Plugin for MonoDevelop Apr 04 18:55
_Hicham_ that way we will be even Apr 04 18:55
_Hicham_ we won’t have to worry Apr 04 18:55
benJIman Monodevelop already has good support for ironpython. Apr 04 18:56
_Hicham_ great Apr 04 18:56
schestowitz brb Apr 04 18:59
_Hicham_ ok Apr 04 18:59
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_Hicham_ balzac : u just woke up? Apr 04 18:59
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_Hicham_ there is a free python book available in Debian repos : sudo apt-get install diveintopython Apr 04 19:00
balzac no, just got to the office Apr 04 19:02
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balzac I live at my office, practically Apr 04 19:03
balzac I need to do something about my income Apr 04 19:03
balzac who needs to get waterboarded? Apr 04 19:05
balzac let’s “aggressively interrogate” bush and cheney and find their swiss bank account digits Apr 04 19:05
balzac I need some money, my favorite strippers have bills to pay Apr 04 19:05
balzac Let’s waterboard Rupert Murdoch Apr 04 19:07
balzac And feed Rush Limbaugh to hungry polar bears Apr 04 19:07
balzac come on! Apr 04 19:07
balzac sorry, this belongs #politics Apr 04 19:07
balzac </rant> Apr 04 19:08
PetoKraus oh man Apr 04 19:08
PetoKraus berlusconi ++ Apr 04 19:08
balzac he had a thought? Apr 04 19:08
PetoKraus he is amazing Apr 04 19:08
PetoKraus Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has provoked criticism for describing Barack Obama as “young, handsome, and tanned”. Apr 04 19:08
balzac he’s a buffoon, but apparently he did something decent? Apr 04 19:08
PetoKraus Responding to a reporter’s suggestion that the remark might be misunderstood, he accused his opponents of not having a sense of humour. Apr 04 19:08
PetoKraus ”God save us from imbeciles,” he added. Apr 04 19:08
_Hicham_ balzac : Bill Gates is still the Richest Apr 04 19:09
balzac _Hicham_: Bill Gates is way down the list of trouble makers Apr 04 19:09
balzac but I want his market-share and revenue Apr 04 19:09
PetoKraus i’d love to have such a politician in our country Apr 04 19:09
MinceR i want him to repay the damage he has caused (by running a generator or something) Apr 04 19:10
MinceR i want his assets to be taken from him Apr 04 19:10
MinceR and i want him dead Apr 04 19:10
_Hicham_ If u get his market share, u will practically fuck all america Apr 04 19:10
_Hicham_ u can get any stripper Apr 04 19:10
*balzac sets mode +b Mincer Apr 04 19:10
MinceR now you show your true colors Apr 04 19:11
balzac MinceR: don’t be a bitch Apr 04 19:11
balzac angstivist bitchassedness Apr 04 19:11
balzac Wishing death on Bill Gates is pure “angstivism”. Apr 04 19:12
balzac completely useless Apr 04 19:12
MinceR balzac: yes, being assured that he can’t cause any more harm is certainly useless Apr 04 19:12
balzac in fact, worse than useless, and it negates the value of everything good you’ve ever said if you stand by such an outrageous comment Apr 04 19:12
MinceR i’m sorry i’ve offended your favorite criminal Apr 04 19:13
MinceR (or perhaps second favorite, right behind steve jobs) Apr 04 19:13
balzac my favorite criminal may be Madoff Apr 04 19:13
balzac but Bill Gates is not nearly as bad as Bush Apr 04 19:13
balzac Some angstivist at a political meeting this weekend compared Mayor Bloomberg to Hitler Apr 04 19:14
balzac And called him the worst mayor ever Apr 04 19:14
balzac I said it was bulls___ Apr 04 19:14
balzac Guliani was worse Apr 04 19:15
schestowitz balzac: so if you pull a gal, you take her to the ‘office’ (practically)? Apr 04 19:15
balzac schestowitz: cleaner and nicer than my place Apr 04 19:15
schestowitz Before or after? Apr 04 19:15
schestowitz :- Apr 04 19:16
PetoKraus touche :P Apr 04 19:16
balzac I haven’t had a girl since me and my last gf broke up Apr 04 19:16
schestowitz I guess it’s like RMS Apr 04 19:16
balzac since then, only strip clubs and a massage parlour – no happy ending Apr 04 19:16
schestowitz Just don’t grow a beard Apr 04 19:16
schestowitz RMS lived in his office for many years Apr 04 19:16
balzac just not a long one Apr 04 19:16
schestowitz Actually, many Microsoft employees lived in their office Apr 04 19:17
schestowitz Same with Turbolinux Apr 04 19:17
schestowitz Sleeping in front of their desk or something Apr 04 19:17
MinceR balzac: oh, if someone isn’t as bad as bush, he must be a saint Apr 04 19:17
MinceR after all, bush is a saint, isn’t he? Apr 04 19:17
schestowitz :-) Apr 04 19:17
balzac MinceR: why don’t you go ahead and wish death on someone scarier than Bill Gates? Apr 04 19:17
schestowitz Saint like holy sh*t Apr 04 19:17
balzac How about… Dick Cheney? Apr 04 19:18
MinceR balzac: in case you didn’t notice, we were discussing bill gates, not “someone scarier” Apr 04 19:18
balzac do you wish he were dead? Apr 04 19:18
schestowitz Balrog: Dick Cheney will self desrtruct anyway Apr 04 19:18
schestowitz He has a weak heart Apr 04 19:18
MinceR i don’t know his crimes so well, but i think i would Apr 04 19:18
balzac Bush? Apr 04 19:18
MinceR same thing Apr 04 19:19
schestowitz Is it either OR? Apr 04 19:19
balzac dude, you live under a rock, apparently Apr 04 19:19
MinceR if so, please tell me what you know about hungarian politics Apr 04 19:19
schestowitz MinceR: Cheney robbed America Apr 04 19:19
schestowitz He used the invasion to pass money to his former company Apr 04 19:19
MinceR then i’ll hear your opinion about living under rocks and such things. Apr 04 19:19
balzac MinceR: I admire the guy who threw the eggs at Ballmer Apr 04 19:19
PetoKraus balzac: you know, the US is not the center of the world Apr 04 19:19
schestowitz MinceR: in the US, World=USA Apr 04 19:19
MinceR balzac: i see how well you know what’s going on in another country Apr 04 19:20
balzac I can tell you that I’ve enjoyed both sides of the river, Buda and Pest Apr 04 19:20
schestowitz And Palin was wrongly accused of thinking Africa  was a nation Apr 04 19:20
PetoKraus well Apr 04 19:20
balzac the coat I’ve for a couple years, been wearing I bought there Apr 04 19:20
MinceR schestowitz: yes, i know Apr 04 19:20
MinceR usians are full of themselves Apr 04 19:20
MinceR and their fucking joke of a country Apr 04 19:20
PetoKraus hehe Apr 04 19:20
PetoKraus tanned president takes the lead Apr 04 19:20
PetoKraus :P Apr 04 19:20
MinceR and appreciating freedom only in name, not in practice Apr 04 19:20
schestowitz PetoKraus: he said this in Italian right? Apr 04 19:21
PetoKraus yeah Apr 04 19:21
MinceR and pushing their newest policies on the rest of the world Apr 04 19:21
PetoKraus but that guy Apr 04 19:21
schestowitz How does that TRNSLATE? Apr 04 19:21
PetoKraus no idea Apr 04 19:21
schestowitz I bet it’s exaggerated Apr 04 19:21
MinceR (policies that were bought by megacorps in the usa) Apr 04 19:21
PetoKraus schestowitz: i don’t Apr 04 19:21
schestowitz And you must listen to tone Apr 04 19:21
PetoKraus it’s berlusconi Apr 04 19:21
PetoKraus he’s got balls Apr 04 19:21
schestowitz He could say this jokingly to Obama’s face Apr 04 19:21
MinceR even if he’s got balls, he’s probably just another crook Apr 04 19:21
schestowitz That would be folksy… like Yeltsin and Clinton. Apr 04 19:22
schestowitz berlusconi is an arsgole Apr 04 19:22
schestowitz *hole Apr 04 19:22
schestowitz Check what he does on Intellectual Monopolies Apr 04 19:22
balzac yeah, let Berlusconi talk about Obama’s “tan” with him Apr 04 19:22
balzac heheh Apr 04 19:22
schestowitz Some sort of neo-facsism Apr 04 19:22
PetoKraus and what Apr 04 19:22
schestowitz *fascism Apr 04 19:22
balzac Berlusconi is a classic douche-bag Apr 04 19:23
PetoKraus hehe Apr 04 19:23
schestowitz And they have corrupt procurement there, favouring PearlyG and ilk. Apr 04 19:23
PetoKraus i disagree Apr 04 19:23
PetoKraus he’s got a style Apr 04 19:23
PetoKraus he’s designer bag! Apr 04 19:23
balzac heheh Apr 04 19:23
schestowitz Berlusconi is Sarko’s twin Apr 04 19:23
schestowitz Separated at birth Apr 04 19:23
balzac the skin of a designer bag Apr 04 19:23
schestowitz Still connected by the mind Apr 04 19:23
schestowitz Sharing the same neurons, apparently Apr 04 19:23
balzac MinceR: when was the last time you spent money on a hooker? Apr 04 19:24
PetoKraus it doesn’t matter Apr 04 19:24
PetoKraus the neurons Apr 04 19:24
PetoKraus not the hoooker Apr 04 19:24
PetoKraus :P Apr 04 19:24
schestowitz Consumer Interest Groups Ask Obama To Stop Appointing RIAA Lawyers < http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200… > Apr 04 19:24
PetoKraus yeah, i read that Apr 04 19:24
PetoKraus wankers. Apr 04 19:24
schestowitz PetoKraus: maybe to both Apr 04 19:24
schestowitz Biden and the MAFIAA Apr 04 19:24
schestowitz Dick Tracy Junior Apr 04 19:25
MinceR balzac: i didn’t Apr 04 19:25
balzac MinceR: I’m recommending you find a whore, because you’ve got way too much angst to effective as an activist. Apr 04 19:25
PetoKraus hmm Apr 04 19:25
MinceR balzac: why don’t you go back to your microsoft and apple fanboy friends and hug them? Apr 04 19:25
balzac I’m not even an activist anymore Apr 04 19:25
MinceR no, you’re just a pathetic fanboy Apr 04 19:25
PetoKraus oh god Apr 04 19:25
PetoKraus since when are hookers relevant measure? Apr 04 19:26
PetoKraus of anything Apr 04 19:26
MinceR PetoKraus: it’s the warped mind of a fanboy. Apr 04 19:26
PetoKraus no Apr 04 19:26
PetoKraus it’s called Apr 04 19:26
PetoKraus retardation Apr 04 19:26
MinceR you never know what you’re going to find. Apr 04 19:26
balzac MinceR: you’re what is called a WATB in the “blogging” community Apr 04 19:26
MinceR same thing Apr 04 19:26
MinceR i was more specific, though Apr 04 19:26
balzac Whiney-Assed Titty Baby Apr 04 19:26
PetoKraus balzac: just tell me you’re “tanned” as well Apr 04 19:26
PetoKraus :P Apr 04 19:26
MinceR balzac: i don’t care what labels you can apply to me Apr 04 19:26
MinceR balzac: nobody gives a fuck about your opinion. Apr 04 19:26
balzac MinceR: let’s not make this too personal Apr 04 19:27
MinceR balzac: oh, now you don’t want to make it personal Apr 04 19:27
balzac I had to issue you a citation for “angstivism” Apr 04 19:27
MinceR after making it personal? Apr 04 19:27
balzac Actually, yes, let’s make it more personal Apr 04 19:27
MinceR or perhaps you think that you should talk shit and everyone else should just listen and applaud? Apr 04 19:27
MinceR go fuck yourself. Apr 04 19:27
balzac MinceR: do you know who I am? Apr 04 19:27
balzac Paul Gaskin Apr 04 19:28
PetoKraus and? Apr 04 19:28
balzac who are you? Apr 04 19:28
*DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 04 19:28
PetoKraus why should you care? Apr 04 19:28
balzac because he’s wishing violence or harm on Bill Gates every so often Apr 04 19:28
balzac as far as I know, he could be a troll from Novell Apr 04 19:28
PetoKraus yeah Apr 04 19:28
PetoKraus an american lawyer is going to sue him Apr 04 19:29
PetoKraus you know Apr 04 19:29
PetoKraus hungary is not a part of the US either Apr 04 19:29
PetoKraus Apr 04 19:29
balzac he is like the guy at the back of the crowd who throws a bottle Apr 04 19:29
PetoKraus i thought you realised that when you tried to sue the Swedes Apr 04 19:29
DaemonFC if you have corrupted politicians, your problem is not Microsoft Apr 04 19:29
balzac So, Mincer – what is it you’re willing to say under your given name? Apr 04 19:30
DaemonFC Microsoft is one of the symptoms Apr 04 19:30
DaemonFC :) Apr 04 19:30
balzac Come one now… Apr 04 19:30
balzac come on… Apr 04 19:30
schestowitz FRAUD: Take-Two Interactive Software settles SEC suit < http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-… > Microsoft, Apple and Novell may have done the same thing. Apr 04 19:30
balzac no “bitchassedness” Apr 04 19:30
DaemonFC Throw them out, replace them with politicians that won’t be bought by Microsoft Apr 04 19:30
DaemonFC problem solved Apr 04 19:31
balzac the guy who threw the eggs at steve ballmer represents Hungary quite well Apr 04 19:31
balzac he threw eggs Apr 04 19:31
balzac he didn’t wish death Apr 04 19:31
DaemonFC what? He represents a bunch of childish pranksters who refuse to strike at the root of the problem? Apr 04 19:31
DaemonFC that’s not saying much for Hungary Apr 04 19:31
PetoKraus well Apr 04 19:32
balzac well, Mincer just went away to cry, I suppose Apr 04 19:32
PetoKraus i don’t think you know what are you talking about Apr 04 19:32
PetoKraus but after all Apr 04 19:32
PetoKraus you’ve got an MA Apr 04 19:32
PetoKraus Apr 04 19:32
PetoKraus :P Apr 04 19:32
DaemonFC Throwing eggs really solved the problem, Hungary will stop peddling Microsoft now….oh wait, it hasn’t Apr 04 19:32
balzac Mincer, type something so we know you’re not crying Apr 04 19:32
schestowitz The issues of Microsoft corruption in Hungary came up Apr 04 19:33
schestowitz It was in the media Apr 04 19:33
schestowitz Eggs were merely a catalyst Apr 04 19:34
DaemonFC right Apr 04 19:34
DaemonFC the guy made an ass out of himself Apr 04 19:34
schestowitz It was captured from tweo cameras Apr 04 19:34
DaemonFC and nobody in their right mind will take him seriously Apr 04 19:34
schestowitz Before they rewarded the criminal with a special honour Apr 04 19:34
schestowitz DaemonFC: not him, others Apr 04 19:34
schestowitz The guy who checked eggs encouraged investigation Apr 04 19:35
schestowitz Some people did that Apr 04 19:35
schestowitz They spoke independently of him Apr 04 19:35
DaemonFC The guy that threw a shoe at George W. Bush made me laugh, I hate Bush, but it didn’t fix any of the stuff that Bush fucked up Apr 04 19:35
DaemonFC did it? Apr 04 19:35
schestowitz Murdoch Accuses Google/Yahoo of Copyright Theft < http://industry.bnet.com/media/1… > Apr 04 19:36
schestowitz DaemonFC: what would you propose instead/ Apr 04 19:36
DaemonFC at that point, even shooting him wouldn’t have solved anything though Apr 04 19:36
schestowitz That was a relatively friendly (symbolicc) protest Apr 04 19:36
schestowitz Not peaceful Apr 04 19:36
schestowitz But not corporal Apr 04 19:36
schestowitz Earlier today I watched on television the riots in Germany Apr 04 19:37
schestowitz Over the Afghanistan convoy Apr 04 19:37
DaemonFC We live in a fairly perverse world, bad things happen and the maqjority of people are pretty stupid Apr 04 19:37
schestowitz I reckon they use the ‘election’ as an excuse to send more troops Apr 04 19:37
DaemonFC the politicians play at the stupidity of the majority Apr 04 19:37
DaemonFC and when they get in Apr 04 19:37
DaemonFC they execute the will of a minority Apr 04 19:37
schestowitz Also, One can be sure that they are there to ensure people vote the ‘right way’ Apr 04 19:37
schestowitz Otherwise they’ll get punished somehow (e.g. strangulation) until they vote ‘correctly’ Apr 04 19:38
schestowitz This was done a lot in South America Apr 04 19:38
DaemonFC it’s a secret ballot election Apr 04 19:38
schestowitz Yes Apr 04 19:38
schestowitz Secret as in “Secret services”? Apr 04 19:38
schestowitz j/k Apr 04 19:38
DaemonFC Some peoples hatred of the United States goes way beyond any possible explanation Apr 04 19:39
DaemonFC and they act like their government isn’t fucking shit up proportional to their size and relative influence in the world Apr 04 19:39
DaemonFC cause I guarantee it is Apr 04 19:40
schestowitz Latest attack on the Internet: Senate Committee Ponders Cyber Security Bill  < http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nf/2… > Apr 04 19:40
schestowitz It’s not a US problem Apr 04 19:40
DaemonFC But I think the US just makes a bogeyman for their particular fuck ups Apr 04 19:40
DaemonFC easier to point the finger Apr 04 19:40
schestowitz I have nothing against the US and I have family there Apr 04 19:40
schestowitz the US!presidency Apr 04 19:40
schestowitz The country is not its authority Apr 04 19:41
schestowitz And there is great disparity between people and the elite that tames them Apr 04 19:41
schestowitz So to blame a ‘country’ is a weird thing to do because the population rarely has much to do with policies Apr 04 19:41
schestowitz Lots of examples re: healthcare, finance, patents, military Apr 04 19:42
DaemonFC My tax money pays for the bombs dropped on Iraq. If I don’t pay taxes I go to prison for a long time. Apr 04 19:42
schestowitz The “US” (mostly some companies there) is mostly a scapegoat Apr 04 19:42
DaemonFC I have been coerced into paying for this against my conscience. Apr 04 19:42
schestowitz That’s the power of a consent system, and it is the reason it is massively effective Apr 04 19:43
balzac There’s a very strong case for not paying taxes Apr 04 19:43
schestowitz A system that daemonises morality Apr 04 19:43
DaemonFC The system has run amok and they use those resources to hold anyone that objects to what they edo hostage. Apr 04 19:43
balzac luckily, most of my earnings were 1099 Apr 04 19:43
balzac so I didn’t pay much yet. Apr 04 19:43
DaemonFC They put those funds into welfare and public projects so that on some level you depend on the system that is fucking you over Apr 04 19:44
DaemonFC B-) Apr 04 19:44
MinceR balzac: die in a fire, retard. Apr 04 19:46
DaemonFC The argument between the Republicans and Democrats is not whether to put tax money into wasteful public spending and welfare Apr 04 19:46
DaemonFC it’s how to waste it Apr 04 19:46
balzac MinceR: you hate retards? Apr 04 19:50
balzac you’re a real hater Apr 04 19:50
balzac what’s your f___ing name? Apr 04 19:50
MinceR balzac: yes, i hate your kind Apr 04 19:50
MinceR of retard Apr 04 19:51
MinceR i don’t have a “f___ing name”, and other kinds of names are none of your business. Apr 04 19:51
balzac what is my kind? the kind who doesn’t hide behind a pseudonym? Apr 04 19:51
MinceR also, you’re cluttering the channel with your trolling, so quit it Apr 04 19:51
balzac you’re accusing me of trolling? Apr 04 19:51
MinceR indeed Apr 04 19:51
balzac MinceR: let’s hear from you Apr 04 19:52
balzac I’ll write less and give you space Apr 04 19:52
balzac I’ve got work to do today Apr 04 19:52
MinceR why only me? Apr 04 19:52
MinceR do you believe this channel belongs to the two of us? Apr 04 19:52
balzac because you’re the one who is unknown Apr 04 19:52
MinceR fuck you. Apr 04 19:53
balzac no. fuck yourself. Apr 04 19:53
balzac now go ahead as if I’m not here Apr 04 19:54
balzac -_- Apr 04 19:54
MinceR perhaps your friends in kindergarten find that comeback snappy. i don’t. Apr 04 19:54
balzac nevermind me, Mincer Apr 04 19:54
MinceR now go ahead as if you weren’t here. Apr 04 19:54
balzac let’s hear your opinions about anything except for me Apr 04 19:55
PetoKraus schestowitz: how’s the weather down in manchaster? Apr 04 19:55
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*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 04 20:02
schestowitz PetoKraus: nice here. Apr 04 20:02
PetoKraus we had almost tanning weather two days ago Apr 04 20:03
schestowitz MinceR: balzac is with the Good Team Apr 04 20:04
MinceR he’s concealing that very well Apr 04 20:04
schestowitz Why bark up the wrong tree? Because balzac wants Bush punished before Gates? Apr 04 20:04
schestowitz They can take turns Apr 04 20:04
MinceR that’s not what he said Apr 04 20:04
schestowitz I agree with balzac . Bush should go first Apr 04 20:04
MinceR he said that gates shouldn’t be punished because bush and cheney should Apr 04 20:05
schestowitz MinceR: no, he’s in other sites too. He’s strongly pro-FS Apr 04 20:05
schestowitz MinceR: true Apr 04 20:05
MinceR well, he said what he said Apr 04 20:05
schestowitz Them first Apr 04 20:05
schestowitz More urgent Apr 04 20:05
schestowitz Where life was at stake Apr 04 20:05
MinceR i didn’t say bush and cheney shouldn’t be punished Apr 04 20:05
schestowitz Bush kills people only with bad engineering Apr 04 20:05
schestowitz Like hospitals becoming botnets Apr 04 20:05
MinceR you mean gates Apr 04 20:06
balzac also, 100 members of our congress should be criminally prosecuted before Gates Apr 04 20:06
schestowitz Apart from that, he ruins families’ lives Apr 04 20:06
MinceR :) Apr 04 20:06
schestowitz By criminally destorying companies like Netscape Apr 04 20:06
MinceR i don’t think we need a waiting list for this Apr 04 20:06
schestowitz And then he funnels this into his Rockefeller-esque scam to make even more money Apr 04 20:06
balzac civil suits make more sense against M$ Apr 04 20:07
schestowitz balzac: they owned the judge Apr 04 20:07
schestowitz Jackson called them “Criminals” Apr 04 20:07
schestowitz Guess what they did? Apr 04 20:07
schestowitz (to him) Apr 04 20:07
balzac Roy, i’m not on the “Good Team” anymore. I recently veered sharply toward “evil”. Apr 04 20:07
schestowitz What type of evil? Apr 04 20:08
balzac no more activism, now entrepreneurialism Apr 04 20:08
schestowitz The whole pimp trash? Apr 04 20:08
schestowitz entrepreneurialism =  big word, no substance Apr 04 20:08
schestowitz Like the isms Apr 04 20:08
balzac I want money Apr 04 20:08
schestowitz It’s the means for achieving goals Apr 04 20:09
schestowitz Not the goal, not the end Apr 04 20:09
schestowitz We all hhumans are the same Apr 04 20:09
schestowitz We share the same fate, without exception Apr 04 20:09
balzac cam-girls are not whores, so bringing free software and free media codecs for cam-girls (and whoever else), is not any kind of pimping Apr 04 20:09
schestowitz You can’t take money into the grave. Well, technically you can, but you know what i mean… Apr 04 20:09
*_Hicham_ has quit (“Leaving.”) Apr 04 20:09
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balzac but I wrote on change.gov that prostitution should be decriminalized, even though I’m not interested in that business as an employer, but only as a customer Apr 04 20:10
schestowitz balzac: don’t create conditions for girls to sell themselves Apr 04 20:10
MinceR so that’s why you keep talking about it Apr 04 20:10
schestowitz That’s morally wrong Apr 04 20:10
schestowitz Remove the conditions under which objectification is needed Apr 04 20:10
balzac schestowitz: unregulated capitalism creates desperation – that is the bigger problem. Apr 04 20:11
schestowitz Women activists worked really hard to abolish sexism.. and being treated liek tools Apr 04 20:11
MinceR i suspect that objectivication comes from a source you can’t regulate with laws Apr 04 20:11
schestowitz Don’t misplace activism of one kind to promote abolishment of another type Apr 04 20:11
balzac there is such a thing as the possibility of ethical transactions of sex for money Apr 04 20:11
MinceR (people’s way of thinking, sexism, lack of egalitarianism) Apr 04 20:11
schestowitz balzac: why change the subject? Apr 04 20:11
MinceR s/ivi/ifi/ Apr 04 20:11
balzac what is the subject you had in mind? Apr 04 20:12
schestowitz “transactions of sex for money” WTF?? Apr 04 20:12
balzac <@schestowitz> balzac: don’t create conditions for girls to sell themselves Apr 04 20:12
schestowitz Yes, offer them decent jobs Apr 04 20:12
schestowitz Not conditions under which money is made indecently. Apr 04 20:13
balzac well, they should be free to sell their sexual services too, if they’re of the age of legal consent. Apr 04 20:13
schestowitz You could make a flawed argument Apr 04 20:13
schestowitz Like… if a kid is hungry in the street and you can abuse him for food, does that make it ethical? Because he was hungry? Apr 04 20:13
schestowitz The solution is in removal oif the conditions under which this is needed Apr 04 20:13
schestowitz Another example would involve war Apr 04 20:14
balzac kid? (no legal consent) him? (i don’t swing that way). Apr 04 20:14
balzac you’re changing the subject now Apr 04 20:14
schestowitz Some troops face commands to kill or be jailed (or –at worse–lynching) Apr 04 20:14
schestowitz balzac: same subject, different severity Apr 04 20:14
schestowitz Or different type of victim Apr 04 20:14
balzac roy, you’re really moving the goal posts around Apr 04 20:14
schestowitz Predatory it is to sway people towards something they don’t want thtough strangulation Apr 04 20:15
schestowitz You could torture a person to the point of false admission Apr 04 20:15
schestowitz Does that make the ‘rendition’ OK? Apr 04 20:15
schestowitz balzac: here’s what I prpose Apr 04 20:15
schestowitz If there’s need to human trafficking, then try to eliminate the need Apr 04 20:15
balzac with properly regulated capitalism (ie democratic socialism), nobody would be so desparate that they would endanger themselves to make a little money Apr 04 20:16
schestowitz Not to actualise it Apr 04 20:16
balzac that’s ideal Apr 04 20:16
schestowitz Yes Apr 04 20:16
schestowitz Then go for itt Apr 04 20:16
balzac schestowitz: I’m not talking about human trafficking, which I find abhorrent and frightening. Apr 04 20:16
balzac One of my business ideas involves making free software available which can be used by cam girls Apr 04 20:17
balzac the license says the software is used without warranty, plenty of disclaimers, available at no cost. Apr 04 20:17
schestowitz Why cam /girls/? Apr 04 20:18
schestowitz And not cam carpenter? Apr 04 20:18
schestowitz Or cam “puppy”? Apr 04 20:18
schestowitz Or cam intellectual? Apr 04 20:18
balzac Roy, my interest is in cam-girls and the gaming community Apr 04 20:18
schestowitz What does the technology have to do with girls specifically? Apr 04 20:18
balzac the two of those together Apr 04 20:19
balzac me Apr 04 20:19
balzac i’m the one who puts them together (hopefully). Apr 04 20:19
schestowitz But the technology is generic Apr 04 20:19
balzac schestowitz: I think you know enough details to see that I’ve done my homework Apr 04 20:19
schestowitz Some losers already combined both: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=… Apr 04 20:20
balzac I’m not un-ethical, nor foolish Apr 04 20:20
schestowitz I know Apr 04 20:20
schestowitz So a clarification was worthwhile Apr 04 20:20
balzac it was worthwhile Apr 04 20:20
schestowitz Enterprenuer and activist/FS person are not mutually axclusive Apr 04 20:20
schestowitz You can be both Apr 04 20:20
balzac The guy from Craigslist has to seriously contemplate these issues Apr 04 20:20
schestowitz Being a pig is not a prerequisite of doing business Apr 04 20:21
schestowitz A guy who fixes a machine is not doing unethical thin gs Apr 04 20:21
schestowitz Maybe with the exception of machines that, unlike computers, say… fire cluster bombs. Apr 04 20:21
MinceR cluster bombs aren’t necessarily unethical Apr 04 20:23
balzac I’d say there’s a 99.999% chance that any given cluster-bomb manufacturer is, in fact unethical. Apr 04 20:23
balzac maybe that’s not enough 9s Apr 04 20:24
MinceR possibly Apr 04 20:24
MinceR but manufacturing cluster bombs in itself isn’t the reason Apr 04 20:24
schestowitz MinceR: they are imprecise Apr 04 20:27
schestowitz Collision with innocent people is likely Apr 04 20:28
MinceR which means you must be very careful in selecting the target area Apr 04 20:28
schestowitz MinceR: there are better ways to handle bad people Apr 04 20:28
schestowitz Bombs have residues Apr 04 20:28
schestowitz Like children Apr 04 20:28
MinceR well, it depends on what situation you’re in Apr 04 20:28
schestowitz Not really. Apr 04 20:29
schestowitz Children are innocent Apr 04 20:29
schestowitz Adults can be naive Apr 04 20:29
MinceR some bad people have really powerful armies at their command Apr 04 20:29
MinceR how can you handle them? Apr 04 20:29
schestowitz Example? Apr 04 20:29
MinceR bush did, now obama does (though i don’t know how trigger-happy he is) Apr 04 20:30
schestowitz US spendings on military by far outweigh those expenditure of the whole world combined. Apr 04 20:30
MinceR so does the chinese government Apr 04 20:30
MinceR north korea Apr 04 20:30
MinceR russians Apr 04 20:30
MinceR etc. Apr 04 20:30
schestowitz China brainwashed the youngesters Apr 04 20:30
schestowitz There are better solutions than making bombs Apr 04 20:31
schestowitz Bombs are for impotents Apr 04 20:31
MinceR yes, the usa spends a lot on it. so what can you do if they threaten you? ask them nicely to stop? Apr 04 20:31
schestowitz Look at the Arms Race Apr 04 20:31
schestowitz Whhat was ever gained? Apr 04 20:31
schestowitz Disarmament? Apr 04 20:31
MinceR information warfare exists, of course Apr 04 20:31
schestowitz MinceR: well, the worse you can do is resist Apr 04 20:31
MinceR but i doubt it’s the dominant method yet Apr 04 20:31
schestowitz Then they call you “enemy combatant” Apr 04 20:32
MinceR and to resist you must arm yourself Apr 04 20:32
schestowitz So a kid whose family home was torn tom pieces with his parents can’t do anything Apr 04 20:32
balzac Obama bowed to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia Apr 04 20:32
schestowitz Else he justifies the belief that his family was “terrorist” Apr 04 20:32
balzac It was 6 inches too low that he bowed, in my opinion Apr 04 20:32
MinceR being considered a “terrorist” changes little about the fact that your family was torn to pieces. Apr 04 20:33
balzac http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/200… Apr 04 20:33
schestowitz balzac: he bows to oil Apr 04 20:33
balzac I would not have gone below the guy’s eye level, but I wouldn’t have wanted to tower over him either Apr 04 20:33
schestowitz Who wouldn’t? Apr 04 20:33
balzac yep Apr 04 20:33
MinceR i wouldn’t Apr 04 20:33
balzac but why doesn’t he make friends with Hugo Chavez? Apr 04 20:33
MinceR but then i’m not a politician Apr 04 20:33
schestowitz Chavez is skeptical Apr 04 20:34
schestowitz Rightly so Apr 04 20:34
schestowitz Look what the government did to his country before. Apr 04 20:34
schestowitz And it’s still the same government Apr 04 20:34
balzac I declared Hugo Chavez my president in 2006 Apr 04 20:34
schestowitz Different PR persona Apr 04 20:34
balzac now, Obama is my president, but I remain an entity above nationalism or loyalty to any government Apr 04 20:34
MinceR i don’t have a president, but sadly the country i’m living in does Apr 04 20:35
schestowitz balzac: maybe you’re on ‘the’ list Apr 04 20:35
MinceR balzac: Apr 04 20:35
MinceR oops Apr 04 20:35
MinceR balzac is a turrist? :> Apr 04 20:35
balzac well, given that Obama is so much taller and more politically-powerful than King Abdullah, it didn’t cost him much. Apr 04 20:36
MinceR i don’t know what bowing means exactly Apr 04 20:36
balzac i’m a french-ticklist Apr 04 20:36
balzac never once contemplated terrorism Apr 04 20:36
MinceR that doesn’t matter to the usian government Apr 04 20:36
MinceR if you think differently, you’re a turrist Apr 04 20:37
balzac MinceR: Bush is not occupying our government anymore. Apr 04 20:37
MinceR i know Apr 04 20:37
MinceR but are obama’s people better? Apr 04 20:37
MinceR under the surface, i mean? Apr 04 20:37
balzac without hesitation – yes. Apr 04 20:37
MinceR (and disregarding their blatant subservience to megacorps — that’s a separate issue) Apr 04 20:38
balzac well, I have some really refined opinions regarding corporate responsibility, economic policy and such. Apr 04 20:39
balzac but I have to pay my bills and buy a light jacket because the weather is warming up Apr 04 20:39
balzac the jacket I bought in Budapest is too warm now, and my hoodie doesn’t have a zipper, so it’s uncomfortable Apr 04 20:39
*DaemonFC has quit (“Leaving”) Apr 04 20:40
*DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 04 20:45
*schestowitz looks for a relevant talk Apr 04 20:45
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/results?search_typ… Apr 04 20:48
schestowitz Can’t find specific video, but she made the point very clearly that “either you’re a Bushi or a terrorist” Apr 04 20:48
balzac Bush said that himself Apr 04 20:49
balzac “either you’re with us or you’re with the terrorists” Apr 04 20:49
schestowitz Really? Apr 04 20:49
schestowitz Let me google it Apr 04 20:49
balzac I turned it around, calling it “Bush’s undead talking points”. Apr 04 20:49
balzac Either you’re with us (impeachment advocates) or you’re with Bush. Apr 04 20:50
schestowitz http://www.electronicbookreview.com/thr… “2. Either You’re With Us or You’re With the Terrorists” Apr 04 20:50
balzac But Obama turns out to have been against impeachment because he had presidential ambitions Apr 04 20:50
balzac and I don’t think he’s with Bush Apr 04 20:50
balzac We’ll see what Eric Holder does next… Apr 04 20:51
schestowitz Many results come up: http://www.darleenclick.com/weblog/archiv… http://yc2.net/speech.htm Apr 04 20:51
schestowitz So Jacques Shirack (spelling) is a terrosist then Apr 04 20:51
MinceR Chirac? Apr 04 20:51
schestowitz Yes Apr 04 20:51
schestowitz Here is the complete quote: “Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. “ Apr 04 20:52
schestowitz –Sept. 20, 2001 Apr 04 20:52
schestowitz A week later Apr 04 20:52
schestowitz Did he write this speech himself? Apr 04 20:53
schestowitz or did this pass the filter of spooks and PR people? Apr 04 20:53
schestowitz Is it a personal policy or a broader one of the regime? Where “terrorism” (inspiring fear) equated to disagreement.. Apr 04 20:54
balzac Roy, I drove them crazy on DailyKos with “Bush’s Undead Talking Points”. Apr 04 20:54
schestowitz That would be totalitarian Apr 04 20:54
schestowitz To say that it’s a violation to disagree Apr 04 20:54
schestowitz Democracy is based on disagreements Apr 04 20:55
schestowitz But maybe it’s taken out of context anyway. Apr 04 20:55
balzac “There are those among us who think that by ignoring the threat of war criminals, they will be safe. We will never be safe so long as anyone provides safe harbor and gives *succor* to war criminals.” Apr 04 20:55
MinceR they aren’t the prime example of democracy, no matter how often and how vigorously assert to be it. Apr 04 20:55
balzac gratuitous use of the word “succor” Apr 04 20:55
balzac Waterboard Bush was an original slogan I coined Apr 04 20:59
balzac “Angstivism” belongs to me as well Apr 04 20:59
balzac I’m good at sloganeering and branding Apr 04 20:59
schestowitz balzac: some criminals live in Florida Apr 04 21:00
schestowitz Like the guy who blew up airport/s in Cuba Apr 04 21:00
schestowitz He lives happily in Miami AFAIK Apr 04 21:00
schestowitz Because he attacked the “them” Apr 04 21:01
balzac we’ll see what happens Apr 04 21:01
balzac but regardless, activism is only a hobby to me now. Only for entertainment, not out of any sense of urgency. Apr 04 21:03
balzac money is my urgent problem Apr 04 21:04
Balrog_ then don’t waste it. Apr 04 21:04
balzac I generally don’t Apr 04 21:04
balzac strippers are worth every dollar Apr 04 21:04
Balrog_ not in my book. Apr 04 21:04
schestowitz Novell seems to be crumbling pretty fast: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/04/nove… http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/04… Apr 04 21:05
schestowitz Balrog: +1 Apr 04 21:06
schestowitz balzac: what made you glorify the habit? Apr 04 21:06
schestowitz You choose sleaze over accommodation? Pardon me for being critical. Apr 04 21:06
Balrog_ I have better things to use my money for Apr 04 21:07
Balrog_ the FSF could always use some :P Apr 04 21:07
schestowitz Use some what? Strippers? j/k Apr 04 21:10
Balrog_ money! Apr 04 21:10
schestowitz FSF’s libido has not taken over its urge for freedom, fortunately Apr 04 21:11
balzac Roy, years of not getting the poontang i wanted and deserved, thanks to reactionary feminist doctrine. Apr 04 21:12
balzac as well as generally conservative morality in society which is based on the time before condoms, birth control, and abortions existed Apr 04 21:13
balzac so, I’m an atheist, still on board with women’s liberation principles (real feminism, not reactionary angstivist “feminism”) Apr 04 21:14
balzac and I have a better time in strip clubs than in most bars. the music and entertainment is much better. Apr 04 21:14
schestowitz Blander powa: http://www.youtube.com/w… Apr 04 21:15
schestowitz *Blender Apr 04 21:15
balzac and I don’t feel i’m in a high-school prom, filled with hipsters who are discovering themselves Apr 04 21:15
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?… Apr 04 21:16
schestowitz http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archi… Apr 04 21:16
balzac of course, once I find another gf, I’ll spend more time in restaurants and bars with good live music Apr 04 21:16
balzac and i’ll only bring her to a strip club if she’s comfortable there Apr 04 21:16
schestowitz Strip clubs won’t help you make relationships, IMHO Apr 04 21:17
balzac I’m not worried about it Apr 04 21:17
balzac I have no shortage of friends, no urgency for a long-term relationship, money is my only concern Apr 04 21:18
schestowitz MinceR: more info about your surroundings’ corruption: http://www.h-online.com/open/Hungarian-g… Apr 04 21:18
schestowitz Microsoft: “we’re open source, TOO!!!11″ :-) :-) Apr 04 21:18
Balrog_ if money is a concern, don’t waste it Apr 04 21:18
balzac what is this, everyone judge balzac-day? Apr 04 21:18
MinceR we’ll see where it leads Apr 04 21:18
schestowitz Balrog: exactly Apr 04 21:18
schestowitz MinceR: better than before, methinks Apr 04 21:19
Balrog_ there’s a difference between needs and wants Apr 04 21:19
schestowitz Same with OBAMAA. Could be worse.. WAS worse. Apr 04 21:19
MinceR balzac: protip: if you don’t want to be judged, don’t attack people unprovoked. Apr 04 21:19
MinceR schestowitz: indeed Apr 04 21:19
balzac MinceR: there’s still a little tear in the corner of your eye Apr 04 21:19
balzac stiff upper lip, ole chap! Apr 04 21:19
MinceR balzac: there’s still a lot of shit in you Apr 04 21:19
balzac wrong – just dropped a deuce Apr 04 21:20
schestowitz Enough :-) Apr 04 21:20
schestowitz Why infighting? Apr 04 21:20
MinceR balzac: yet you’re still full of it. Apr 04 21:21
schestowitz http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollyw… Apr 04 21:21
balzac MinceR: almost everyone has some organic matter in their digestive tract Apr 04 21:22
balzac what, are you one of those people who gets colonics? Apr 04 21:22
schestowitz :-( ‘Poor’ Murdoch. The Internet is competing with him. http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/03… Apr 04 21:23
MinceR balzac: i see your knowledge of slang is severly limited Apr 04 21:23
MinceR s/rl/rel/ Apr 04 21:23
schestowitz “Posteriors are puckering throughout the Alberta oil patch as long-overdue climate and green economy legislation moves through the US Congress. The provincial government has responded by hiring Washington lobbyists at $500,000 per year to try and ensure whatever bill gets passed is so watered down that does not impact the dirtiest oil on Earth.” Apr 04 21:24
balzac ohhh snap! Apr 04 21:24
schestowitz http://www.desmogblog.com/spin-o… Lobbying for death of the planet! ;-) ?? Apr 04 21:24
schestowitz Obama on exceptionalism < http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/arc… > Apr 04 21:26
schestowitz An ad deal is apparently being misinterpreted as twitter selling out. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009… Apr 04 21:32
balzac Every time some online “community” gets big enough to be commercialized, there will be angstivists who cry out about “selling out”. Apr 04 21:34
schestowitz yo balzac, you heard of this right? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30030756/ (Sources: 14 killed in N.Y. rampage) Apr 04 21:34
balzac If you want an online community that won’t sell out, you’ll have to pay taxes. Apr 04 21:34
schestowitz I saw it on TV earlier Apr 04 21:34
MinceR damn angstivists, they should just get on the bench, grab the paddles and put the shackles on already Apr 04 21:35
schestowitz balzac: no, it’s the question of who you sell /to/ Apr 04 21:35
balzac MinceR: I’m on the side of the stated goals of many “angstivists” or activists who get angsty. I’m just offering my consulting in the manner of a psychiatrist to help them understand themselves. Apr 04 21:36
schestowitz Google must be one of the scariest expansionist out there on the Web nowadays. Startups have love/hate relationship with Google (buy us, don’t defeat us) Apr 04 21:36
schestowitz psychiatrist often need a psychiatrist Apr 04 21:36
schestowitz That’s why they go study the prefession Apr 04 21:37
MinceR balzac: oh, you agree with the activists, you’re just looking for a way to look down on them and call them names Apr 04 21:37
MinceR i see. Apr 04 21:37
schestowitz They seek help and knowlwedge Apr 04 21:37
balzac well, since I’m not a professional, I don’t subject myself to peer review from any professional psychiatrist. Apr 04 21:37
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