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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 11th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:17 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


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To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

schestowitz Say it many times Apr 11 20:39
schestowitz To dilute the word Apr 11 20:39
MinceR War is Freedom Apr 11 20:39
MinceR oops Apr 11 20:39
schestowitz Here in IRC we can replace all words like “bad” with “terror” Apr 11 20:39
MinceR i’ve mixed up the quote Apr 11 20:39
schestowitz Then terror stops meaning much Apr 11 20:39
MinceR we could use “terror” as a greeting Apr 11 20:39
schestowitz It’s just a ‘junk food’ word like apparently Apr 11 20:39
Omar87 schestowitz: Or innocent women and children locked up in their homes, starving to death… and being killed and massacred with no mercy… Apr 11 20:39
MinceR “Good terror to all!” Apr 11 20:40
schestowitz “terra Brotha!” Apr 11 20:40
schestowitz High five Apr 11 20:40
schestowitz Like people who before the 2008 election added a middle name Apr 11 20:40
schestowitz Hussein Apr 11 20:40
schestowitz Netscape’s founder is among them Apr 11 20:40
schestowitz Because of Obama. sticking it to Republican FUD Apr 11 20:40
schestowitz Watch this headline:  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/… Gavin Clarke, the MS shill, is spreading terror Apr 11 20:42
schestowitz Linux and “core dump” in the same headline. It’s terrible terroristic. it scares the reader who wanted to try Linux… Apr 11 20:42
schestowitz Terribly said, no? Apr 11 20:42
MinceR It’s terror. Apr 11 20:48
schestowitz Amazon should really join Open Cloud. What they do at the moment is immobilise and proprietarise Free software. Apr 11 20:49
schestowitz This headline is just utter terror: http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxp… Apr 11 20:53
schestowitz They changed it from the original and as usual (For Linux Planet) they trolled in it. Apr 11 20:53
schestowitz The way they present may also make it seem like they call Mark Shuttlworth “ugly duckling” Apr 11 20:54
schestowitz http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/04/09… “Spec for spec, the XP version is also $35 cheaper than the Mi version.” HP is selling Linux for MORE than Windows XP. Apr 11 20:58
MinceR more value for more money? Apr 11 20:58
MinceR the solution is obvious, though Apr 11 20:58
MinceR don’t buy hp Apr 11 20:58
schestowitz Of course, but Apr 11 20:59
schestowitz They’ll interpret this as no demand for Linux Apr 11 20:59
schestowitz “So while I have indeed contributed to the official Microsoft share of the U.S. netbook market, I am on record here as saying all of my netbooks, including the two Windows XP ones I got for a total of $500, now run Linux. Thus, Linux has 100% market share here, even if the official statistics don’t have it right.” Apr 11 21:00
schestowitz From http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009… Apr 11 21:00
MinceR i wonder how much did ballmer pay hp for that Apr 11 21:00
MinceR or perhaps they merely threatened them with increasing the price of windows licenses Apr 11 21:01
schestowitz Either way, it reeks of corruption of one kind or another Apr 11 21:03
MinceR where there’s windows, there’s corruption. Apr 11 21:06
schestowitz Smashed windows. Apr 11 21:08
schestowitz “Watch ya knees, darling” Apr 11 21:08
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schestowitz Here’s a though I’ve just had. Why can’t file watermarking be subveryted by simple I/O? Like open file, put in another more cleanly/cleanly/slightly scrambled? Apr 11 21:10
schestowitz Basically, it’s like DRM. Trivial to strip. Apr 11 21:11
MinceR you need to know where the watermark is hidden in order to strip it Apr 11 21:14
schestowitz But can’t you rencode with some noise? Apr 11 21:16
schestowitz *re-encode Apr 11 21:16
schestowitz Multimedia is based on the assumption that noise is tolerable. it’s not an executable Apr 11 21:17
MinceR you could but you’d have to add more noise to be sure it’s gone Apr 11 21:20
MinceR say you’re pretty confident they will only change the lowermost 4 bits of the audio -> you have to replace all of them with random bits Apr 11 21:21
MinceR and even if the lowest 1 bit is used to hold the watermark, the watermark might not necessarily replace it entirely with noise Apr 11 21:22
MinceR there might be some algorithm to make the watermark less noisy Apr 11 21:22
schestowitz Novell has just pushed this into the Tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?… Apr 11 21:22
tacone omf Apr 11 21:25
tacone mono Apr 11 21:26
schestowitz Banshee Apr 11 21:26
schestowitz They promote this garbage in the lyrics Apr 11 21:26
tacone the mono logo ! Apr 11 21:26
schestowitz Where? Apr 11 21:26
tacone 3:00 circa Apr 11 21:26
schestowitz I see now Apr 11 21:26
schestowitz yeah.. Apr 11 21:26
schestowitz Smack the Monkey Apr 11 21:26
schestowitz Novell uploaded this video twice… like on Friday I think….. Apr 11 21:27
tacone the video is very nice. Apr 11 21:27
schestowitz Good video to remind us that novell is “Linux” for lamers Apr 11 21:27
tacone it’s just an aspiring viral video Apr 11 21:28
schestowitz Yes, I know. Spiraling too Apr 11 21:28
schestowitz MinceR’s taste of music :-p Apr 11 21:28
tacone poor MinceR. Apr 11 21:29
MinceR what Apr 11 21:29
schestowitz MinceR: re watermarks, sure, if the algo is good Apr 11 21:29
schestowitz Kind of like ‘unhackable’ Blueray :-) Apr 11 21:29
schestowitz Bluray BD.. Apr 11 21:29
schestowitz Or any DRM for that matter. Apr 11 21:30
MinceR well, my point is that if you don’t know the watermarking algorithm, you might lose a lot more quality than you really have to Apr 11 21:30
schestowitz I never had any experience with DRM (or watermarks) Apr 11 21:30
schestowitz Poor me… :-) I guess we’re all ‘bahind’ Apr 11 21:30
MinceR neither have i — except for “watermarked” pdf-s Apr 11 21:30
MinceR (but that was really obvious) Apr 11 21:31
schestowitz I hear that Vista thing has this latest “technology” Apr 11 21:31
tacone watermark are for tracing people. Apr 11 21:34
MinceR we know :> Apr 11 21:34
tacone oh >:( Apr 11 21:34
MinceR (offtopic) (flash) (video) (music) http://vimeo.com/3514904?pg… Apr 11 21:39
schestowitz http://www.flickr.com/photos/nitot… Apr 11 21:40
MinceR translation? Apr 11 21:40
schestowitz Politically Timed “Terror” Arrests – the Real Bob Quick Scandal < http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/20… > Apr 11 21:40
tacone Error 404, deputies un-findable Apr 11 21:41
tacone impossible to find the law(?) Hadopi Apr 11 21:41
schestowitz http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechn… “A Google Street View cameraman told a photographer “don’t you take pictures of me” when he tried to reverse roles on him and take his photograph. “ Apr 11 21:41
schestowitz Priceless Apr 11 21:41
MinceR :) Apr 11 21:42
schestowitz tacone: This week showed a quite surprising turn of events at the French Assemblée Nationale. The French Parliament actually rejected the infamous HADOPI law (the three-strikes law). http://standardsandfreedom.net/index… Apr 11 21:43
tacone Jean-F. Copè did not found the deputies necessary to access the vote. Apr 11 21:43
tacone – has the socialist party proceeded to a derisory manouver ? Apr 11 21:43
tacone - is your minister of culture enough clever ? Please verify Apr 11 21:43
tacone - is your (law) project acceptable for your own party deputies ? please keep your majority. Apr 11 21:43
schestowitz How the government uses dirty data to legislate morality < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2… > Apr 11 21:44
schestowitz “When it comes to sex and censorship, Government’s insistence that laws are “evidence-based” is little more than hot air.” Apr 11 21:45
schestowitz trmanco: it’s French Revolution in reverse. Apr 11 21:45
schestowitz Return to feudalism Apr 11 21:45
tacone schestowitz: yes, but it was just for lack of legal number Apr 11 21:46
schestowitz Add caption (found in glymoody): http://www.flickr.com/photos/kioko/2… Apr 11 21:47
tacone which is a fairly common failure for right wing party Apr 11 21:47
tacone the law will be voted again in 10-15 days. Apr 11 21:47
schestowitz tacone: yes, what MAFIAA wants MAFIAA will get. Apr 11 21:47
tacone usually is not that easy to force french peopl to swallow something they don’t like Apr 11 21:48
MinceR tacone: thx Apr 11 21:48
tacone but since they voted right, after decades of left. maybe even that is going to change. Apr 11 21:48
schestowitz http://www.avaaz.org/en/fix_british… “Peaceful protest is an essential part of our democracy. But at the G20 demonstrations last week it was threatened by flawed policing — targeting the peaceful majority instead of isolating the handful of troublemakers. Watch one of the many videos which have shocked the nation, and let’s stop this from ever happening again. “ Apr 11 21:48
schestowitz YouTube Rejects Real Name System for Korean Users < http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/… > Apr 11 21:50
schestowitz http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/g… Apr 11 21:51
schestowitz NOTE:  Both Taleb and I conclude that the best way to deal with this risk is to simplify our global economic system.  Taleb recommends that we turn back the clock to a simpler time.  In contrast, I recommend that we organically evolve into a more efficient decentralized system that concentrates on community resilience. “ Apr 11 21:51
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schestowitz Good comments here: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor… Apr 11 21:59
schestowitz Free to a Good Home: Junk < http://www.linuxjournal.com/co… > Apr 11 22:01
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_Hicham_ DaemonFC : anything new? Apr 11 22:03
DaemonFC Not much Apr 11 22:03
DaemonFC I angered a few Microsoft fanboys and ended up deleting some comments on Youtube Apr 11 22:03
DaemonFC :P Apr 11 22:04
DaemonFC not cause I am trying to censor, because they were unintelligible and mostly foul language Apr 11 22:04
_Hicham_ which Youtube content did u comment on? Apr 11 22:04
DaemonFC I was a video where I talked about Windows 7 Apr 11 22:05
_Hicham_ the video still exist? Apr 11 22:06
DaemonFC http://www.youtube.com/watc… Apr 11 22:06
amarsh04 I’m not entirely sure why Debian closes bugs on KDE 3.5.X when KDE 4.2.X isn’t fully ready – I’d still like to get a relatively small number of problems fixed in KDE 3.5.X rather than battle the new bugs in KDE 4.2.X Apr 11 22:06
schestowitz Should 32-bit Be Retired? < http://www.itnewstoday.com/?p=271 > OH, come on.,.. Apr 11 22:08
MinceR perhaps 4.2 is ready enough for them :> Apr 11 22:08
DaemonFC well, 32-bit x86 is hard to kill Apr 11 22:09
_Hicham_ amarsh04 : KDE 3.5.X will just have security patches Apr 11 22:09
amarsh04 hehe… Apr 11 22:09
DaemonFC mostly because people are cheap, ignorant or stupid Apr 11 22:09
schestowitz Thanks, Ryan Apr 11 22:09
DaemonFC there’s really few reasons to actually support it Apr 11 22:09
schestowitz Can I make ogg and link from BN? Apr 11 22:09
amarsh04 and 32 bit ARM will be around longer Apr 11 22:09
DaemonFC sure Apr 11 22:09
schestowitz Cool, thanks. Apr 11 22:09
tacone lol, the arch april fool Apr 11 22:10
amarsh04 yes, agreed about the security patches… I prefer that konqueror 3.5.10 doesn’t crash and won’t upgrade that because that means upgrading to KDE 4.2.2 Apr 11 22:10
DaemonFC should have kept my original Apr 11 22:11
DaemonFC it was an ogg Apr 11 22:11
DaemonFC :P Apr 11 22:11
amarsh04 lots of 32 bit ppc around as automotive computer cpus and the like Apr 11 22:12
schestowitz That’s ok. I ffmpeg is promptly. Apr 11 22:12
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : host it on ur website, instead of having to use flash format Apr 11 22:13
_Hicham_ and use the video tag Apr 11 22:13
_Hicham_ I prefer the video tag to using flash Apr 11 22:13
DaemonFC yeah, but then IE7, IE8, Firefox 3 and lower, and Opera can’t use it Apr 11 22:14
schestowitz Linux Magazine is picking up Linux.com writer (second person I see this week): Combining Debian and FreeBSD; Pushing the Envelope of FOSS < http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7295 > Apr 11 22:14
schestowitz _Hicham_: I’ll do it <video> Apr 11 22:14
MinceR i prefer a link to the video file Apr 11 22:14
DaemonFC you need to use a non-IE development version of your browser to use that Apr 11 22:14
DaemonFC right? Apr 11 22:15
schestowitz Just catching it still. Apr 11 22:15
MinceR that way it won’t be in the browser window Apr 11 22:15
schestowitz To ensure DaemonFC doesn’t start shouting at some crowds :-) Apr 11 22:15
_Hicham_ DaemonFC : better push browsers to adopt it Apr 11 22:15
schestowitz Like in IRC… Apr 11 22:15
DaemonFC does the Mac rip to AIFF if you want to just create uncompressed PCM audio? Apr 11 22:20
*DaemonFC is trying to figure out what the hell made those AIFF files he just converted to FLAC Apr 11 22:21
schestowitz This is you? http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2… Apr 11 22:23
schestowitz DaemonFC: it’s posted now. Microsoft should have mailed you a $2000 gift to ensure you say nice things. Earlier today I caught IDG and other Microsoft mouthpieces talking about what bribed bloggers said without actually TRYING it THEMSELVES. Apr 11 22:30
DaemonFC lol Apr 11 22:32
schestowitz When Vista was near release in 2006 (before and after RTM) Microsoft dispatched dissent against people who crtiticised it. They also recited slogans like “Vista will kill Linux” or “last nail of the coffin of Linux”. So far it’s mostly the same. They invest hundreds of millions on the image of Vista7. They made a budget of $500m Apr 11 22:33
schestowitz Some sources say $300m Apr 11 22:33
DaemonFC heh Apr 11 22:40
DaemonFC schestowitz: Did you get that story about Microsoft losing the patent lawsuit? Apr 11 22:40
_Hicham_ when I was using MSVC to port a project to Windows, I thought about searching the MSDN for the term “Linux”, and guess what I did find? This is one of the results I found : “How to remove Linux from your system” !!!!!!!! Apr 11 22:40
DaemonFC The one where they infringed patents to create Product Activation? Apr 11 22:40
DaemonFC they were ordered to pay the company that held the patents $388 Million Apr 11 22:41
schestowitz zoobab01: http://opensource.org/node/421 Apr 11 22:43
schestowitz DaemonFC: they appeal Apr 11 22:43
schestowitz It was the same against Alcatel-Lucent Apr 11 22:43
schestowitz But this time they can’t countersue and settle Apr 11 22:43
DaemonFC http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/… Apr 11 22:44
schestowitz because Alcatel-Lucent has real products; it’s not a patent troll or little so-called ‘inventor’ Apr 11 22:44
DaemonFC heh Apr 11 22:44
schestowitz They are closing down more now Apr 11 22:44
schestowitz Running out of money Apr 11 22:44
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schestowitz “We’re broke,” as Slated put it Apr 11 22:44
twitter Slated, broke? Apr 11 22:45
DaemonFC Lucent? Apr 11 22:45
DaemonFC heh Apr 11 22:45
schestowitz Today(ish): Microsoft cancels campus pub  < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Mic… > Apr 11 22:45
schestowitz Drinking At Work Just Got Harder At Microsoft < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/41… > Apr 11 22:45
twitter No free beer for you! Apr 11 22:45
twitter ha ha Apr 11 22:45
schestowitz It’s safe to rely on Microsoft’s death for Linux Renaissance on the desktop. Windows already competes at the SAME PRICE. Apr 11 22:46
DaemonFC they got greedy back in the 90s and started making cheap controllerless “WinModems” that leeched CPU time to avoid putting a hardware DSP on the card. Apr 11 22:46
schestowitz Windows/Vista7 will be a freebie too Apr 11 22:46
schestowitz Free for sub-notebooks Apr 11 22:46
schestowitz But a cripples version Apr 11 22:46
schestowitz Intel’s CEO said it would backfire Apr 11 22:46
schestowitz And he’s a buddy of Ballmer|gates Apr 11 22:46
tacone uhm Apr 11 22:46
DaemonFC well, you can’t just give something away and expect to stay in business Apr 11 22:46
schestowitz Intel has Moblin Apr 11 22:46
tacone dell’s adamo doesn’t ship Intel and Windows stickers Apr 11 22:46
twitter got the Intel quote? Apr 11 22:46
schestowitz Because it has ARM to compete vs Apr 11 22:46
schestowitz And ARM is WIndows-free zone Apr 11 22:47
tacone a great advance of technology :) Apr 11 22:47
schestowitz CE is a dead duck Apr 11 22:47
twitter I’ve seen him saying that M$ needs a “plan” Apr 11 22:47
DaemonFC even Canonical has a reason for dumping Ubuntu discs on everyone Apr 11 22:47
DaemonFC it’s marketing Apr 11 22:47
schestowitz Windows Mobile isgoign nowhere. Apr 11 22:47
DaemonFC they want you to be familiar with Ubuntu, edeploy it at work, and buy support Apr 11 22:47
schestowitz Found this afternoon: http://www.businessinsider.com/google-andr… (Google Tablet Leaves Windows Mobile Eating Dust (GOOG, MSFT)) Apr 11 22:47
schestowitz twitter: Microsoft does have a plan Apr 11 22:47
schestowitz Shot-term Apr 11 22:47
schestowitz To dump Windows… at customers Apr 11 22:47
schestowitz But Linux is not a company Apr 11 22:48
schestowitz That’s how they crashed Borland Apr 11 22:48
twitter yeah, but Intel CEO does not think it will work Apr 11 22:48
schestowitz It won’t work against a coalition (Linux Foundation) Apr 11 22:48
twitter It’s how they crashed everyone. Apr 11 22:48
twitter It’s not working anyomore Apr 11 22:48
schestowitz Essentially, they pissed off too many people like Ellison, Hurd and Palmisano so they turn the OS to a commodity Apr 11 22:48
schestowitz twitter: will look for the Intel quote Apr 11 22:49
schestowitz brb Apr 11 22:49
schestowitz twitter: not Slated being broke…. Apr 11 22:49
schestowitz He showed another MS division eating dust some days ago Apr 11 22:50
twitter ah Apr 11 22:50
schestowitz He quoted Microsoft Apr 11 22:50
schestowitz Then translared their words that say they run out of money Apr 11 22:50
schestowitz [still looking] http://www.pcretailmag.com/news/29939/… (Otellini: ‘MID revolution will be centred round Linux’) Apr 11 22:51
schestowitz Ballmer: GNU/Linux Will Win on Netbooks < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/… > Apr 11 22:51
schestowitz Still looking for  Otellini quote Apr 11 22:51
schestowitz Got it. Apr 11 22:52
schestowitz Otellini: Windows 7 Upgrade for Netbooks Will Be Tough’ < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160967/w… > Apr 11 22:52
twitter OMG, they really burnt the bar subcontractor. Apr 11 22:52
schestowitz “Microsoft has a challenge: Sell a Windows upgrade as a way to save money.” Apr 11 22:52
schestowitz “The company’s fourth quarter Windows revenue declined 8 percent, as PC buyers opted for lower-priced netbooks that run either Windows XP or Linux, rather  than the higher-priced Windows Vista operating system, which does not run on  netbook hardware.” Apr 11 22:52
twitter Yeah, I think that’s the one I saw. Apr 11 22:52
schestowitz I think Q1 report is 2 weeks away Apr 11 22:52
schestowitz It’ll be ugly if many netbooks were sold Apr 11 22:53
schestowitz But they will cook the books as usual. Apr 11 22:53
schestowitz Like their employee/whistleblower said they do Apr 11 22:53
schestowitz http://www.dailytech.com/Reports+Microsoft+C… (Reports: Microsoft Cripples Windows 7 Starter Edition in Hopes of Netbook Upgrades) Apr 11 22:53
twitter From what I’ve seen, they are dumping M$ loaded netbooks on schools. Apr 11 22:53
DaemonFC Windows 7 seems to be almost exactly like Vista, only easier to ruin Apr 11 22:53
schestowitz Dana Bass IIRC: Microsoft’s Windows 7 May Not Cure Netbook Headache < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi… > Apr 11 22:53
DaemonFC I can’t believe I corrupted it so bad it couldn’t boot jsut trying to put software for my webcam on it (not even the driver, the software) Apr 11 22:54
schestowitz One Third of Dell Inspiron Mini 9s Sold Run Linux < http://blog.laptopmag.com/one-third-of… > Apr 11 22:54
_Hicham_ fuck Windows, fuck Microsoft Apr 11 22:54
schestowitz math: Windows 7 + netbook = failure – GNU/Linux as remaining winner! < http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,10000… > Apr 11 22:54
schestowitz Microsoft losing control of netbooks < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer… > Apr 11 22:54
schestowitz I’d say, maybe not “in netbooks” Apr 11 22:55
schestowitz They lose control Apr 11 22:55
schestowitz By giving WIndows for free Apr 11 22:55
schestowitz They began this in May 2008 Apr 11 22:55
schestowitz The memo leaked to IDG News Servcie Apr 11 22:55
schestowitz before that, the majority of netbooks ran WIndows Apr 11 22:55
DaemonFC schestowitz: Is there a Bonnie++ for Windows? Apr 11 22:55
schestowitz As the memo article said, “Microsoft decided to put an end to it” Apr 11 22:56
twitter you mean linux Apr 11 22:56
schestowitz The cost: Windows margins Apr 11 22:56
schestowitz OOPS Apr 11 22:56
schestowitz I meant, “before that, the majority of netbooks ran Linux’ Apr 11 22:56
schestowitz Almost all of them ran Linux. Windows was sometimes just an option Apr 11 22:56
twitter they also crippled netbook specs and punished OEMs that don’t play nice, like ASUS which suffered it’s first ever loss on inventory. Apr 11 22:56
schestowitz Amazon’s top sellers were Apple computers and Linux netbooks Apr 11 22:56
schestowitz Like 70% of them or something Apr 11 22:56
schestowitz twitter: that too Apr 11 22:57
schestowitz They later changed the limits Apr 11 22:57
schestowitz But they still crippled them Apr 11 22:57
twitter I think the Windows sales are fake, it’s hype to drive sales. Apr 11 22:57
schestowitz Else Netbooks become Notebooks with free (gratis) Windows Apr 11 22:57
schestowitz In which case, Windows is zeroing its margins Apr 11 22:57
schestowitz And people use Google Apps/OOo, esp. on weak h/w Apr 11 22:57
twitter Anyone with any technical knowledge knows that a Windows netbook won’t run well and will burn up in six months. Apr 11 22:57
schestowitz They can’t use Office 2007 on netbooks Apr 11 22:58
schestowitz it’s too fat and unresponsive Apr 11 22:58
twitter It’s hard to use Office 2007 on anything. Apr 11 22:58
schestowitz No WIndows profit + no Office = ?? Apr 11 22:58
twitter no beer. Apr 11 22:58
schestowitz twitter: well, dual-core would do Apr 11 22:58
schestowitz OK for engineers Apr 11 22:58
schestowitz People whose computer is their occupation Apr 11 22:58
schestowitz Not good for Average Jane Apr 11 22:58
schestowitz Esp. not in this economy Apr 11 22:59
twitter I’m not sure about that, they changed the interface.  Even if your computer can run Office 2007, the user is left frustrated. Apr 11 22:59
twitter The usual morons are pushing Office 2007 though.  School systems are starting to demand docx and hand out “educational” material using it. Apr 11 23:00
twitter a real push is on and University dumping is now viral. Apr 11 23:00
schestowitz People forget Microsoft’s workforce trouble Apr 11 23:00
schestowitz Only Microsoft develops Windows Apr 11 23:00
schestowitz And it must maintain many versions, inc. XP Apr 11 23:01
twitter I met someone who supplied most of her small town with M$ Office 2007 through LSU’s student software rape program. Apr 11 23:01
schestowitz Because upgrades are neither smooth no free Apr 11 23:01
*jumbo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Apr 11 23:01
schestowitz It’s not like Fedora! Apr 11 23:01
twitter They dump on everyone through the university. Apr 11 23:01
schestowitz So as oiaohm points out, they can’t maintain when they lose programmers Apr 11 23:01
DaemonFC schestowitz: Is there freeware screengrab software for Windows? Apr 11 23:01
twitter vista Apr 11 23:01
schestowitz Windows can’t rely on:1) others writing patches and testing them; 2) people upgrading to the latest (it’s not free) Apr 11 23:02
DaemonFC I want to video some particular problems I’m talking about Apr 11 23:02
schestowitz Bloat in Vista did not help, either Apr 11 23:02
schestowitz DaemonFC: well, printscreen Apr 11 23:02
schestowitz Not much of an app though, is it…? Apr 11 23:02
twitter not video Apr 11 23:02
schestowitz I used import for 8 years Apr 11 23:02
twitter better to use a static image anyway. Apr 11 23:03
schestowitz Now I use the GIMP’s UI for screenshots. KDE has one built in too Apr 11 23:03
schestowitz http://tips.webdesign10.com/how-to-take-a… Apr 11 23:03
schestowitz I know the guy who wrote this Apr 11 23:03
tacone also shutter Apr 11 23:03
tacone http://www.stefanoforenza.com/if-you-blo… Apr 11 23:04
schestowitz The ‘problem’ with Linux is that you can achieve the same thing in different ways Apr 11 23:04
schestowitz It’s not really a problem Apr 11 23:04
schestowitz For someone watching what you do it might seem odd Apr 11 23:04
schestowitz But you get things done anyway Apr 11 23:04
tacone to video recordmydesktop. Apr 11 23:04
schestowitz Like resolving from the CLI problems you can resolve from the GUI Apr 11 23:04
schestowitz If gets the same job done either way Apr 11 23:04
tacone depends Apr 11 23:05
schestowitz Two routes, same outcome Apr 11 23:05
tacone on macosx there are two routes to burn a cd Apr 11 23:05
schestowitz tacone: KDE/GNOME is another issue Apr 11 23:05
tacone confusing at most. and one way work, the other don’t :) Apr 11 23:05
schestowitz That’s where there are different solutions that do not work universally Apr 11 23:05
schestowitz So for documentation it can be a pain Apr 11 23:05
schestowitz The CLI though is universal. GNU utils and Linux stuff. Apr 11 23:05
twitter You’ve been away from Windows too long, Roy. Apr 11 23:06
schestowitz twitter: it has a GIU too Apr 11 23:06
twitter There’s far less documentation on that OS. Apr 11 23:06
schestowitz For ipconfig for example Apr 11 23:06
schestowitz twitter: Windows has ‘documentation’ Apr 11 23:06
schestowitz You can some number Apr 11 23:06
schestowitz Like an ISP/shop Apr 11 23:06
twitter There’s also a multitude of nasty, non free ways of doing things and none of them ever really work. Apr 11 23:06
_Hicham_ Windows has MSDN Apr 11 23:06
schestowitz Sometimes reach someone half way across the globe Apr 11 23:06
tacone by the way i tried macosx. it isn’t any better than gnome. i was surprised. Apr 11 23:06
schestowitz Get told to reinstall. Apr 11 23:06
*DaemonFC has quit (“Windows is like playing Russian Roulette with six loaded chambers.”) Apr 11 23:07
twitter LMAO, Hicham. Apr 11 23:07
schestowitz ‘Solves’ the problem. Apr 11 23:07
tacone it isn’t even pretty. Apr 11 23:07
schestowitz tacone: matter of taste Apr 11 23:07
twitter do you think end users want to go to a Developer Network to figure out something like how to take a screenshot? Apr 11 23:07
schestowitz How versatile is theming in OS X? Apr 11 23:07
_Hicham_ MSDN is very well organized Apr 11 23:07
schestowitz I rarely see much customisation in OS X. Apr 11 23:07
tacone schestowitz: it doesn’t exist. Apr 11 23:07
schestowitz It’s kind of like XP Fisher Price Apr 11 23:07
tacone 10.4 had some third party apps Apr 11 23:08
schestowitz I’d hate to use a Mac that has ALWAYS the same hardware AND theme Apr 11 23:08
schestowitz It’s kind of commie Apr 11 23:08
twitter MSDN can be as well organized as Google can make it, but it still sucks Apr 11 23:08
tacone 10.5 has seen the light of a theme-app very recently. Apr 11 23:08
schestowitz No indovoduality allowed Apr 11 23:08
schestowitz Apple instructs… on what’s ‘cool’ Apr 11 23:08
tacone i was looking after that the other day. i wanted to build an utility to convert mac icon themes to X11 Apr 11 23:08
twitter I’m having to use Windoze every day.  It sucks life. Apr 11 23:08
tacone but no standard nor official way exists. you download the icons and set them 1 per 1 basis. Apr 11 23:09
twitter The single screen interface with zero flexibility. Apr 11 23:09
twitter Documentation from 15 vendors in 15 spots, none of it useful. Apr 11 23:09
twitter It makes me pull my hair. Apr 11 23:09
tacone i was surprised at how much macosx sucks. guess windows is better in many ways. Apr 11 23:09
schestowitz I like the theme in OS X Apr 11 23:09
schestowitz Fonts seem nice ‘by default Apr 11 23:10
_Hicham_ Linux>Windows>MacOS Apr 11 23:10
schestowitz Can achieve the same in Linux of course.. Apr 11 23:10
silentivm the only thing I like on OS X by default are fonts Apr 11 23:10
silentivm otherwise? nope Apr 11 23:10
tacone macosx theme is nice. but well.. it doesn’t look that good a 1280. and by the way, you can’t change it. Apr 11 23:10
_Hicham_ schestowitz : Fedora looks better Apr 11 23:10
twitter No, if you believe in non free, you want Apple. Apr 11 23:10
silentivm the dock is a complete turn-off Apr 11 23:10
tacone the default font seems normal to me, but i have no taste for fonts. Apr 11 23:10
schestowitz First thing I do in KDE is use my fancy fonts Apr 11 23:10
MinceR osx theme is nice… for me to poop on! Apr 11 23:10
twitter the whole point of non free is that someone else takes care of the “hard parts” Apr 11 23:10
twitter Apple does this and provides things that work. Apr 11 23:10
schestowitz MinceR:yo, comic insult dog Apr 11 23:10
twitter Windows does not work. Apr 11 23:11
silentivm OS X is too whitey for me… I prefer darker themes Apr 11 23:11
twitter I prefer things that work. Apr 11 23:11
silentivm yep Apr 11 23:11
silentivm so do I Apr 11 23:11
MinceR i prefer things that work Apr 11 23:11
MinceR that’s why i use gnu/linux Apr 11 23:11
tacone osx theme is nice. but it’s the only one. and when you see it for a day or two, it doesn’t look nice anymore. Apr 11 23:11
schestowitz └─(23:11 $)─> uptime Apr 11 23:11
schestowitz 23:11:32 up 38 days,  8:29,  2 users,  load average: 0.66, 0.96, 1.08 Apr 11 23:11
silentivm I once configured GNOME+Compiz+awn to look like OS X Apr 11 23:11
schestowitz Does OS X reboot upon updates? Apr 11 23:11
tacone which updates ? Apr 11 23:12
twitter OSX looks like a fancy E16 to me. Apr 11 23:12
tacone :) Apr 11 23:12
tacone yes, sometimes at least. Apr 11 23:12
_Hicham_ fuck OSX Apr 11 23:12
twitter so will gnu/linux if you update a crucial part of the kernel. Apr 11 23:12
twitter I’ve still been having power management issues. Apr 11 23:13
schestowitz roy@baine (at work):~$ uptime 22:53:09 up 75 days, 11:54,  2 users,  load average: 0.13, 0.26, 0.23 Apr 11 23:13
tacone i never really gave osx a chance but… it seems a pig covered with gems to me. Apr 11 23:13
_Hicham_ fuck Apple too Apr 11 23:13
twitter These are new bugs that I did not have in Etch. Apr 11 23:13
tacone i like microsoft better than apple. Apr 11 23:13
schestowitz tacone: BSD is a pig? Apr 11 23:13
_Hicham_ twitter : what bugs? Apr 11 23:13
schestowitz It’s a devil Apr 11 23:13
tacone the kernel may be good. the user interface seems crappy + some nice animation Apr 11 23:14
twitter i810 something about setting audio sample rate takes forever on wake up Apr 11 23:14
_Hicham_ twitter : do u run Lenny on a laptop? Apr 11 23:14
schestowitz Underneath the shiny Apple there’s a devil Apr 11 23:14
twitter I run Lenny everywhere Apr 11 23:14
schestowitz Actually there might be too. They also have DRM underneath the sea (Aqua) Apr 11 23:14
schestowitz *two Apr 11 23:15
twitter If I had a mac, I’d run Lenny. Apr 11 23:15
_Hicham_ I didn’t test suspend on Lenny yet Apr 11 23:15
silentivm if I had a Mac, I’d run… Arch Linux, of course Apr 11 23:15
tacone pft. they put drm everywhere. even on the steak if no salt is available. Apr 11 23:15
silentivm :) Apr 11 23:15
MinceR bsd isn’t a pig, it’s a dinosaur Apr 11 23:15
twitter It’s hardware dependent, ACPI sucks. Apr 11 23:15
tacone mac sucks at running linux. Apr 11 23:15
silentivm :( Apr 11 23:15
tacone i actually have a mac. Apr 11 23:15
twitter I’ve played with OpenSolaris a little lately. Apr 11 23:15
tacone and i run ubuntu instead of macosx. Apr 11 23:15
_Hicham_ fuck Mac Apr 11 23:16
twitter they are using a lot of GNU tools. Apr 11 23:16
tacone we’re talking about a machine that can’t even boot an usb drive. Apr 11 23:16
silentivm I don’t really hate Apple, I just fail to see what’s so cool about their products. Apr 11 23:16
_Hicham_ Apple + MS = gangs of thiefs Apr 11 23:16
tacone silentivm: think again. they’re as evil as microsoft. Apr 11 23:16
schestowitz OpenOffice.org 3.1 delayed to the end of April < http://www.h-online.com/open/OpenOffice… > Apr 11 23:16
silentivm tacone, hmm Apr 11 23:16
schestowitz I didn’t even know it was due Apr 11 23:16
tacone microsoft is like mafia, apple is more like a criminal gang. Apr 11 23:16
MinceR 002535 < tacone> i actually have a mac. Apr 11 23:16
MinceR tacone: well, at least you can keep the wind from slamming the door with something. Apr 11 23:16
_Hicham_ what is new about open office 3.1? Apr 11 23:16
tacone MinceR: ? Apr 11 23:17
MinceR tacone: a doorstop from apple. Apr 11 23:17
twitter Anyone know how to video conference with free software? Apr 11 23:17
schestowitz _Hicham_: grammar checker and stuff… I can’t recall. Apr 11 23:17
schestowitz It’s supposed to be faster too Apr 11 23:18
schestowitz twitter: depends on the SW used Apr 11 23:18
_Hicham_ it is already in experimental Apr 11 23:18
schestowitz Some s/w supports Linux Apr 11 23:18
schestowitz Some uses Flash Apr 11 23:18
twitter no flash, please Apr 11 23:18
schestowitz _Hicham_: RC Apr 11 23:18
schestowitz twitter: I know. Apr 11 23:18
twitter I’ve got working video all day long Apr 11 23:18
schestowitz Wait until Ogg comes Apr 11 23:19
schestowitz But does it stream well? Apr 11 23:19
schestowitz And what about mics? Apr 11 23:19
_Hicham_ fuck Flash Apr 11 23:19
twitter audio is easy Apr 11 23:19
_Hicham_ schestowitz : streaming is not format related Apr 11 23:19
twitter Ekigia is supposed to work but I’m clueless Apr 11 23:19
_Hicham_ twitter : Ekiga for streaming? Apr 11 23:19
twitter It used to be gnome-meetin Apr 11 23:20
twitter g Apr 11 23:20
tacone ogg success depends on how good the browsers implement their player. Apr 11 23:20
_Hicham_ twitter : I think it will be superseeded by Empathy… Apr 11 23:20
_Hicham_ Firefox’ one is working great Apr 11 23:20
_Hicham_ I tested it in OLPC Apr 11 23:21
_Hicham_ Firefox3.1 is days away Apr 11 23:21
tacone 3.5 ? Apr 11 23:21
_Hicham_ aka 3.5 Apr 11 23:22
*mib_6u211h (i=510bcab4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-996df18641087056) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 11 23:22
_Hicham_ it is now in its beta 3 Apr 11 23:22
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 11 23:23
*mib_6u211h is now known as CshapGnomeorJava Apr 11 23:23
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 11 23:23
tacone i heard about june. Apr 11 23:24
tacone not days. Apr 11 23:24
tacone i may be wrong, though. Apr 11 23:24
tacone but beta 3 sounds like far. Apr 11 23:24
tacone means several weeks away Apr 11 23:24
*CshapGnomeorJava has quit (Client Quit) Apr 11 23:27
schestowitz _Hicham_: I was thinking about controls Apr 11 23:27
schestowitz Ogg won’t do interaction alone, BUT.. Apr 11 23:27
schestowitz You could use some more Javascript for that Apr 11 23:27
schestowitz tacone: I think maybe June…? Apr 11 23:28
schestowitz I’m not sure about this Apr 11 23:28
schestowitz I read about the dates being shifted the other day Apr 11 23:28
tacone that what i heard as well. Apr 11 23:28
tacone let’s hope they get performance right once for all. Apr 11 23:29
_Hicham_ schestowitz : Firefox will handle interaction Apr 11 23:29
tacone chromium linux is amazing. Apr 11 23:29
_Hicham_ tacone : is it available for download? Apr 11 23:29
tacone http://www.stefanoforenza.com/… Apr 11 23:30
tacone if you’re on ubuntu, yes. Apr 11 23:30
*DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 11 23:30
tacone otherwise you may have to compile yourself, which means downloading gigabytes (i guess) Apr 11 23:30
tacone _Hicham_: that’s a mostly non-working alpha. take it as a proof of concept. Apr 11 23:30
schestowitz _Hicham_: yes, I know. “controls” Apr 11 23:31
schestowitz But it ought to be universal Apr 11 23:31
schestowitz I don’t know where Opera stands on this Apr 11 23:31
schestowitz They have good market share in phones Apr 11 23:31
tacone not for long. Apr 11 23:32
schestowitz So they could give Adobe the high finger and put Ogg on their devices that they support Apr 11 23:32
schestowitz Like Nokia phones… though Nokia hates Ogg Apr 11 23:32
_Hicham_ fuck Opera Apr 11 23:32
schestowitz Why? Apr 11 23:33
tacone the more powerful phones get, the less important opera becomes. Apr 11 23:33
schestowitz Bnary, I know. Apr 11 23:33
schestowitz But they’ll give up Apr 11 23:33
schestowitz They use Linux in house… Apr 11 23:33
_Hicham_ never Apr 11 23:33
_Hicham_ Opera will remain binary forever Apr 11 23:33
tacone they were even ad-ware in the past. Apr 11 23:34
_Hicham_ fuck them till death Apr 11 23:34
*Omar87 (n=omar@ has left #boycottnovell Apr 11 23:34
_Hicham_ I don’t like proprietary software Apr 11 23:34
tacone google released GoogleUpdate as open source. Apr 11 23:35
_Hicham_ tacone : really? Apr 11 23:35
tacone people were concerned about having that daemon running Apr 11 23:35
tacone yeah Apr 11 23:35
tacone really Apr 11 23:35
tacone http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/20… Apr 11 23:35
_Hicham_ I like to compile google by myself Apr 11 23:36
_Hicham_ to be sure Apr 11 23:36
tacone pft. i compiled yahoo some year ago Apr 11 23:36
tacone on a 486. Apr 11 23:36
_Hicham_ yahoo? Apr 11 23:36
tacone _Hicham_: … that was a joke. Apr 11 23:37
tacone surprisingly, google update is not made in c# Apr 11 23:38
_Hicham_ tacone : did u test chromium on ubuntu? Apr 11 23:38
tacone yes. Apr 11 23:38
twitter ekiga sets up easily but there might be router problems Apr 11 23:38
tacone i have it installed and it updates every 2 days Apr 11 23:39
twitter I can’t tell because I don’t have anyone to play with Apr 11 23:39
_Hicham_ tacone : does it work well? Apr 11 23:39
tacone _Hicham_: is mostly non implemented. i mean… you have to use hotkeys to close tabs. and preference windows is yet to implement. Apr 11 23:39
tacone but basic surfing works. Apr 11 23:40
tacone and works very nicely. Apr 11 23:40
tacone very fast. Apr 11 23:40
tacone rendering is ok, and it starts up the same moment I click the launcher. Apr 11 23:40
_Hicham_ wow Apr 11 23:41
tacone it’s slower to close than to start. Apr 11 23:41
_Hicham_ does it have a GTK interface? Apr 11 23:41
tacone well not sure. maybe it starts before i click :-) Apr 11 23:41
tacone yes, they went for gtk. Apr 11 23:41
tacone there’s a mailing list thread where they discussed the issue. Apr 11 23:41
tacone also, it’s unknown if they will put tabs on top on linux. maybe they will do as a 20%time project. Apr 11 23:42
DaemonFC schestowitz: Can you post a video for me? Apr 11 23:42
DaemonFC it’s too large for Youtube Apr 11 23:42
tacone btw, it doesn’t look native to me. so maybe they changed they’re mind. Apr 11 23:42
tacone wow. now tabs work. updates.. :-) Apr 11 23:43
_Hicham_ tacone : check the memory maps to see if it uses qt or wxwidgets Apr 11 23:43
tacone _Hicham_: i woudln’t know how to do such thing. i am no tech enough. Apr 11 23:44
schestowitz DaemonFC: sure Apr 11 23:44
tacone it uses gnome’s icons though in the menus Apr 11 23:44
tacone so i guess they use gtk, but much of the interface is custom (it doesn’t use theme colors) Apr 11 23:45
DaemonFC schestowitz: I called Logitech support to complain about the cam not working in Windows 7 Apr 11 23:45
DaemonFC it’s kind of funny Apr 11 23:45
DaemonFC and their software destroying Windows Apr 11 23:46
tacone _Hicham_: that’s an old screenshot (now it’s a little better) http://www.stefanoforenza.com/blog/wp… Apr 11 23:46
tacone as you see, the tabs and the toolbar are totally custom. Apr 11 23:46
MinceR i’d prefer it to use system colors. Apr 11 23:47
tacone _Hicham_: which distro are you on ? Apr 11 23:47
_Hicham_ tacone : I am on Debian Lenny Apr 11 23:48
tacone _Hicham_: so there’s the big chance the ppa will work. Apr 11 23:48
_Hicham_ I will try Apr 11 23:48
tacone ok Apr 11 23:48
tacone if we don’t see you anymore for 4 days, we know why. Apr 11 23:48
schestowitz DaemonFC: did you record it? Apr 11 23:50
DaemonFC yes Apr 11 23:50
schestowitz audio? Apr 11 23:50
DaemonFC yes Apr 11 23:50
*kentma1 (n=user@ellandroad.demon.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 11 23:51
schestowitz mail it over to roy at schestowitz com Apr 11 23:51
schestowitz That is, if it’s what you needed on YouTube Apr 11 23:51
*kentma has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) Apr 11 23:52
DaemonFC I’m downconverting it Apr 11 23:52
_Hicham_ tacone : why? Apr 11 23:52
DaemonFC apparently Youtube has a 100 meg limit Apr 11 23:52
DaemonFC but they jsut say keep it under 10 minutes Apr 11 23:52
_Hicham_ tacone : does it break the system? Apr 11 23:53
tacone _Hicham_: that was the joke. i don’t think anything will happen Apr 11 23:53
DaemonFC the Logitech dude admitting it corrupts Windows 7 Apr 11 23:53
tacone you can check the ppa contents though, if you’re unsure. Apr 11 23:53
DaemonFC and telling me to REINSTALL Window Apr 11 23:53
DaemonFC *Windows Apr 11 23:53
DaemonFC lol Apr 11 23:53
schestowitz WTF? Apr 11 23:55
schestowitz How can a driver do this? Apr 11 23:55
tacone they call it flexibility :) Apr 11 23:56
_Hicham_ Windows 7 is great DaemonFC, it will wipe Windows users away for ever Apr 11 23:56
_Hicham_ I like how Microsoft is doing a “rm -rf” Apr 11 23:56
tacone ask microsoft service: “hey, i’m joe from new jersey. can you make a version of windows that wipe himself from any computer” Apr 11 23:57
tacone ms assistance (steve): sure. wait a moment. Apr 11 23:57
schestowitz WHose fault would it be? Apr 11 23:58
schestowitz How can a driver screw kernel space? Apr 11 23:58
tacone maybe they just replace files. Apr 11 23:58
schestowitz And can Logitech gain permissions/privilege to do this? Apr 11 23:59
DaemonFC it’s signed Apr 11 23:59
trmanco what happened? Apr 11 23:59
tacone schestowitz: can adobe get permissions to bypass windows firewall? :) Apr 11 23:59
schestowitz What for? ‘Security’? Apr 11 23:59
DaemonFC no, the 64-bit Windows kernel can’t load unsigned drivers Apr 11 23:59
DaemonFC so you HAVE to get them signed by MS Apr 11 23:59
tacone that’s the old good partner logic Apr 11 23:59
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