04.15.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 14th, 2009 – Part 1
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| Ziggyfish | Google, not really, as it still promotes opensource software, and can only effect the OS indestry as much as Apple and Linux will let it. | Apr 14 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | The trolls in USENET are getting very jealous and scared of Linux sites right now because Microsoft has no new products and nobody would touch Vista7 when hardware is saddled to it some time next year. There’s this tendency to associate critics of MS based on how much the trolls get annoyed. It’s a good thing. | Apr 14 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Ziggyfish: they are against AGPL (Google) | Apr 14 00:00 |
| schestowitz | They create a new wave of FOSS uers | Apr 14 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Deployers, not contributors | Apr 14 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Ziggyfish: to put it briefly, Google wants to stifle SaaS returns, Apple and Microsoft de-commoditise the Web. Both are self-serving and GNU-hostile. | Apr 14 00:04 |
| Ziggyfish | Deploying Linux = contributing? Contributing isn’t just about developing is it? AGPL I don’t like my self anyway, doesn’t it allow derivitives to be closed source? | Apr 14 00:04 |
| Ziggyfish | true | Apr 14 00:05 |
| schestowitz | But wait… | Apr 14 00:08 |
| schestowitz | To clarify; | Apr 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | Google does not need to use AGPL | Apr 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | That is fine | Apr 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | But.. | Apr 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | The issue, in case you were not watching, Google discourages other devs from using AGPLvx | Apr 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | So it offers them no choice but to leave SaaS loophole. Not fair.. | Apr 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | Google loves Apache Licence | Apr 14 00:10 |
| tacone | like in google code. | Apr 14 00:12 |
| tacone | i don’t think that’s really legal by the way | Apr 14 00:12 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-94-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 14 00:19 | |
| Balrog_ | tacone: can you use AGPL in google code? | Apr 14 00:21 |
| tacone | NO. | Apr 14 00:21 |
| Balrog_ | that’s no good :X | Apr 14 00:21 |
| tacone | it’s not present in the drop down | Apr 14 00:21 |
| Balrog_ | is there a custom option? | Apr 14 00:21 |
| tacone | but i don’t think any rule is in place ot prevent you to use it in the code. | Apr 14 00:22 |
| tacone | no custom option. google official excuse is:’we just put the most widely diffused licenses’ | Apr 14 00:22 |
| schestowitz |  |
Apr 14 00:22 |
| Balrog_ | hrm. I’ll use my own hosting then | Apr 14 00:22 |
| schestowitz | CVhoice is bad | Apr 14 00:22 |
| schestowitz | When the choice is bad | Apr 14 00:22 |
| Balrog_ | or just put AGPL in each wiki page | Apr 14 00:22 |
| tacone | but i don’t think they remembered to put a rule to forbid agpl | Apr 14 00:22 |
| schestowitz | [To Google] | Apr 14 00:22 |
| tacone | so if you put it in the headers of the files.. well.. i don’t think anyone can do anything about that. | Apr 14 00:23 |
| tacone | as for me I use launchpad. | Apr 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | So much trouble | Apr 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Only to ensure people don’t mooch you | Apr 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Think about it… | Apr 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | You write some PHP stuff | Apr 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Like WordPress or Drupal | Apr 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | People can proprietarise it if your project is on Google | Apr 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | And Google is a-OK with that | Apr 14 00:24 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Apr 14 00:24 |
| _Hicham_ | why host it on Google then? | Apr 14 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Because that’s just what is does (Blogger, search, Gmail…) | Apr 14 00:24 |
| Balrog_ | is AGPL ‘blessed’ by OSI? | Apr 14 00:24 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: exactly | Apr 14 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Rhetorical | Apr 14 00:24 |
| _Hicham_ | better uses old sourceforge | Apr 14 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Put it in Savannah | Apr 14 00:24 |
| tacone | i use bzr. | Apr 14 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: yes | Apr 14 00:24 |
| schestowitz | AGPLv3 | Apr 14 00:24 |
| tacone | launchpad makes up for a great bug tracker | Apr 14 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Funambol from italy submitted it | Apr 14 00:25 |
| Balrog_ | that was google’s excuse | Apr 14 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Not Affero | Apr 14 00:25 |
| schestowitz | |
Apr 14 00:25 |
| tacone | it will be opensourced soon. | Apr 14 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Is Affero Spanish? | Apr 14 00:25 |
| schestowitz | tacone: yes, AGPL | Apr 14 00:25 |
| *Goblin has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) | Apr 14 00:25 | |
| schestowitz | Google is afraid ot it | Apr 14 00:25 |
| tacone | yes it is. | Apr 14 00:25 |
| _Hicham_ | host a project on Google and ur fucked, great !!! | Apr 14 00:25 |
| schestowitz | WordPress kicks Blogger’s arse | Apr 14 00:25 |
| tacone | blogger sucks | Apr 14 00:26 |
| schestowitz | If WordPress goes AGPL, then Google is left behind with no advantage to capitalise | Apr 14 00:26 |
| tacone | the only thing is it does scale better. | Apr 14 00:26 |
| schestowitz | And I imagine that many blogspotters escape to their own place | Apr 14 00:26 |
| schestowitz | WordPress+PMAL | Apr 14 00:26 |
| tacone | wordpress will never go agpl | Apr 14 00:27 |
| tacone | btw agpl is a bit of a burden. | Apr 14 00:27 |
| tacone | having to release every change is time consuming. | Apr 14 00:27 |
| Balrog_ | tacone: I thought you only have to release if asked…? | Apr 14 00:28 |
| tacone | Balrog_: that’s the same. | Apr 14 00:28 |
| Balrog_ | well, that makes it simpler than releasing every change | Apr 14 00:28 |
| tacone | agpl makes sense for stuff like launchpad. | Apr 14 00:28 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: just make available | Apr 14 00:29 |
| schestowitz | So you can toss a public copy of your files | Apr 14 00:29 |
| schestowitz | If you make significant changes | Apr 14 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Not just hacking a little on WP | Apr 14 00:29 |
| schestowitz | I’m maintaining wp-hackers stats still |
Apr 14 00:29 |
| Balrog_ | (I hack on wp  ) |
Apr 14 00:29 |
| tacone | everybody hacks on wp. | Apr 14 00:30 |
| Balrog_ | so what do you think of Wikipedia moving to CC license? | Apr 14 00:30 |
| Balrog_ | good thing? | Apr 14 00:31 |
| Balrog_ | tacone or schestowitz: ? | Apr 14 00:32 |
| tacone | ? | Apr 14 00:33 |
| Balrog_ | Wikipedia wants to move from GFDL to Creative Commons | Apr 14 00:33 |
| tacone | i’m no expert on CC. | Apr 14 00:33 |
| Balrog_ | (Attribution – Share Alike) | Apr 14 00:33 |
| Balrog_ | it’s a rather simple license | Apr 14 00:33 |
| tacone | no derivative works ? | Apr 14 00:33 |
| Balrog_ | not that one | Apr 14 00:33 |
| Balrog_ | derivative works are ok | Apr 14 00:34 |
| Balrog_ | http://creativecommons.org/li… | Apr 14 00:34 |
| Balrog_ | http://creativecommons.org/lic… | Apr 14 00:34 |
| Balrog_ | ** | Apr 14 00:34 |
| tacone | i see it like a good thing. but i really don’t know well any of the two licenses. | Apr 14 00:34 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@183.157.dsl.brs.iprimus.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 14 00:36 | |
| schestowitz | tacone: they are compatible | Apr 14 00:37 |
| schestowitz | RMS is cool with thaty, AFAIK | Apr 14 00:37 |
| schestowitz | He compromised | Apr 14 00:37 |
| Balrog_ | if you want you can vote (you’re qualified if you made at least 25 edits prior to March 15) | Apr 14 00:37 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm just woke up | Apr 14 00:38 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, he asked his video to be under creative commons Attribution-No Derivative Works | Apr 14 00:38 |
| oiaohm | http://www.linuxinsider.com/stor… Google fear. | Apr 14 00:40 |
| oiaohm | Google problem is its getting too much power. | Apr 14 00:41 |
| oiaohm | A google mistake could do massive harm. | Apr 14 00:41 |
| oiaohm | Yep then they forget about all the statics companies that are used to bend the truth. | Apr 14 00:42 |
| Balrog_ | anyone knows of a good stats plugin for WP? | Apr 14 00:46 |
| oiaohm | http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=… MS working out what lies will fly. | Apr 14 00:46 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: agreed, re: Google | Apr 14 00:48 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: got no apache side sw? | Apr 14 00:49 |
| schestowitz | It’s less resource intensive | Apr 14 00:49 |
| Balrog_ | yes, but I want full details | Apr 14 00:49 |
| Balrog_ | I don’t have ssh access to this server  |
Apr 14 00:49 |
| schestowitz | WordPress->Entend has a few | Apr 14 00:49 |
| schestowitz | They seem weak | Apr 14 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Without JS you can’t get much anyway | Apr 14 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Spyware like Urchin (Google Anal[sic]0 | Apr 14 00:49 |
| Balrog_ | what do you mean without JS? | Apr 14 00:49 |
| Balrog_ | well I’m putting the JS there, so I won’t call it spyware…. | Apr 14 00:50 |
| Ziggyfish | oiaohm, asking weather Windows * is secure is like asking ‘Are you going to die if you fall off a cliff?’ | Apr 14 00:50 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: no rectal inspection of user’s machine | Apr 14 00:50 |
| tacone | sadly that spies for google not for you. | Apr 14 00:50 |
| schestowitz | Like Google does | Apr 14 00:50 |
| schestowitz | For those who don’t use NoScript of the likes | Apr 14 00:50 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: what about if I use my own JS and not google’s? | Apr 14 00:50 |
| schestowitz | People don’t realise that when they visit some sites they are spied on by 10 domains | Apr 14 00:50 |
| schestowitz | Harvesting with XSS | Apr 14 00:51 |
| tacone | they don’t even give you the ip of the visitors | Apr 14 00:51 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: Good luck with that | Apr 14 00:51 |
| oiaohm | 10 | Apr 14 00:52 |
| schestowitz | Google is radically intrusive | Apr 14 00:52 |
| schestowitz | It’s urchin really | Apr 14 00:52 |
| oiaohm | You are being very light on. | Apr 14 00:52 |
| schestowitz | They even check your scrreenres | Apr 14 00:52 |
| tacone | that’s quite normal. | Apr 14 00:52 |
| oiaohm | worst site I have found around 50 tracking sites. | Apr 14 00:52 |
| balzac | Wikipedia Community Vote On License Migration | Apr 14 00:52 |
| schestowitz | I know | Apr 14 00:52 |
| schestowitz | But JS reliant | Apr 14 00:52 |
| Balrog_ | screenres tends to be useful data | Apr 14 00:52 |
| balzac | http://tech.slashdot.org/ar… | Apr 14 00:52 |
| oiaohm | Yahoo and google have got sneaky. | Apr 14 00:52 |
| schestowitz | Apache logs don’t give you much info | Apr 14 00:52 |
| oiaohm | google and yahoo api | Apr 14 00:52 |
| balzac | I’m skeptical that the GNU FDL is not sufficient for wikipedia | Apr 14 00:52 |
| oiaohm | If the page is done with them disabling the tracking disables the page. | Apr 14 00:53 |
| balzac | I think it’s probably politics at work | Apr 14 00:53 |
| schestowitz | Ito? | Apr 14 00:53 |
| schestowitz | Or Wales? | Apr 14 00:53 |
| oiaohm | FDL is a harder licence to understand than creative commons. | Apr 14 00:54 |
| balzac | that’s plausible | Apr 14 00:55 |
| balzac | but I’m not excited to see a bunch of content losing the GNU license, which seemed good enough for all these years | Apr 14 00:55 |
| balzac | It’s not the work of the FSF to worry about content | Apr 14 00:55 |
| balzac | and Larry Lessig is a personal friend of RMS, so it’s not a big deal. | Apr 14 00:56 |
| balzac | I’m just wanting to see more people learn about GNU | Apr 14 00:56 |
| oiaohm | People who fear a licence will not reuse stuff. | Apr 14 00:56 |
| balzac | The FSF doesn’t worry about content not related to software documentation | Apr 14 00:57 |
| oiaohm | CC has got that bit right. | Apr 14 00:57 |
| balzac | yeah, I’m not worried about it | Apr 14 00:57 |
| balzac | CC is probably a fine license for most of that stuff | Apr 14 00:57 |
| oiaohm | http://ostatic.com/blog/google-up… << Google is at least trying to do the right things. | Apr 14 00:57 |
| balzac | It just goes to show how strong and innovative GNU licenses are | Apr 14 00:57 |
| balzac | Another project incubated under a GNU license, then finds another license after attaining success. | Apr 14 00:58 |
| oiaohm | GNU licences really need to work on there plain english documentation. | Apr 14 00:58 |
| balzac | There was no CC at the time | Apr 14 00:58 |
| oiaohm | Legal licences have bad habit of causing fear. | Apr 14 00:58 |
| balzac | oiaohm: yeah, I don’t think GNU licenses can be blamed for that. | Apr 14 00:59 |
| balzac | Fear for commercial users, relief for academic users | Apr 14 00:59 |
| balzac | oiaohm: a lot of your arguments remind me of what I call the “corporate libertarian” viewpoint | Apr 14 01:00 |
| oiaohm | The licence is fine. | Apr 14 01:00 |
| balzac | “libertarianism” as seen through the lense of corporate interests, not individual civil liberty | Apr 14 01:00 |
| oiaohm | The supporting documentation explaining the licence clearly without big shades of grey is missing | Apr 14 01:00 |
| oiaohm | Ask the questions about linking GPL into a commerical program. Or GPL using a closed soure part. | Apr 14 01:01 |
| oiaohm | Both can become a huge mess in what is allowed and what is not. | Apr 14 01:02 |
| oiaohm | Mostly caused by lack of clear documentation decribing the licence. | Apr 14 01:02 |
| oiaohm | CC does not have the problem. They got the documentation right. | Apr 14 01:02 |
| balzac | yeah, well it’s fine, I think. | Apr 14 01:02 |
| balzac | I realize it was a negotiated solution | Apr 14 01:03 |
| balzac | the latest GDFL was made to release content to CC | Apr 14 01:03 |
| balzac | it was on purpose that this has been made possible, and I bet Stallman and Lessig are in cahoutz about it | Apr 14 01:03 |
| oiaohm | Ok you chicken and egg with GPL. If you have a closed source module built before you got the GPL code and you make GPL code use it the code can remain closed source. | Apr 14 01:04 |
| oiaohm | Problem is proving that the closed source module existed before you got GPL. | Apr 14 01:04 |
| balzac | oiaohm: simple | Apr 14 01:04 |
| balzac | copies derived from the code which existed prior to GPL-licensing can be made proprietary | Apr 14 01:04 |
| balzac | copies derived from the code after GPL-licensing can not be made proprietary | Apr 14 01:04 |
| oiaohm | Nop that is not the end of it. | Apr 14 01:05 |
| oiaohm | If a department in the company developed a closed source module independant to the GPL then it gets joined you have huge mother of grey. | Apr 14 01:05 |
| *Balrog_ is now known as gandalf | Apr 14 01:06 | |
| oiaohm | Of course it should not be grey. | Apr 14 01:06 |
| *gandalf is now known as Balrog_ | Apr 14 01:06 | |
| balzac | can you rephrase? | Apr 14 01:06 |
| balzac | I’m having trouble reading your intended meaning. | Apr 14 01:06 |
| oiaohm | Problem is proving independant development. | Apr 14 01:07 |
| oiaohm | If code is developed independant internally to the GPL code it can legally remain a closed source part used by a GPL program. | Apr 14 01:07 |
| oiaohm | As long as it used in another item to prove independance. | Apr 14 01:08 |
| oiaohm | derived works clause is a evil to understand. | Apr 14 01:08 |
| oiaohm | Its basically simpler avoid like plague. | Apr 14 01:09 |
| oiaohm | GPL had to be writen in a way that building with a closed source complier was not impossiable. | Apr 14 01:10 |
| oiaohm | Remember closed source compliers will link closed source object files into executable. | Apr 14 01:10 |
| oiaohm | The result being the licence has a nasty shade of grey balzac | Apr 14 01:11 |
| oiaohm | And a nasty big loop hole. | Apr 14 01:12 |
| _Hicham_ | GNU aims to provide a free as in freedom operating system | Apr 14 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Add what ever special features you like to your closed source complier and you never have to release the source code. | Apr 14 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is not feasible | Apr 14 01:13 |
| balzac | Sometimes legalese is necessarily vague and relies on the discretion of judges to determine how the legal terminology should be interpreted in a particular case | Apr 14 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Apr 14 01:13 |
| balzac | you argumentative Australian! | Apr 14 01:14 |
| balzac | by god… | Apr 14 01:14 |
| balzac | yes really. | Apr 14 01:14 |
| _Hicham_ | that is oiaohm, endless good conversations | Apr 14 01:14 |
| oiaohm | It has been proven if a licence has supporting documentation that is approved what is said in that documenation is basically sets the ruling. | Apr 14 01:14 |
| oiaohm | You really don’t need a court case to sourt out how a licence/contract should be interperted. | Apr 14 01:15 |
| oiaohm | Basically it goes before a judge when you cannot agree on what the terminology is. | Apr 14 01:15 |
| balzac | sometimes the vaguery of a legal issue is due to a lack of legal precedent | Apr 14 01:16 |
| balzac | sometimes legalese is necessarily vague | Apr 14 01:17 |
| oiaohm | Again you don’t have to wait for legal precedent if you choose not to. | Apr 14 01:17 |
| balzac | again yourself, australian | Apr 14 01:17 |
| balzac | you can wait, or you can be pro-active | Apr 14 01:17 |
| oiaohm | Exactly. | Apr 14 01:18 |
| balzac | it’s a choice | Apr 14 01:18 |
| oiaohm | Creative common choose the pro-active path. | Apr 14 01:18 |
| oiaohm | GNU has chosing the sit back and wait in a lot of parts. | Apr 14 01:18 |
| balzac | well, those who are pro-active to create new legal precedents may find themselves challenged by someone who might prefer to have less specificity | Apr 14 01:18 |
| balzac | and more discretion for interpretation | Apr 14 01:19 |
| balzac | that’s smart | Apr 14 01:19 |
| balzac | anyway, the latest GDFL was written in such a way as to make this transition possible. | Apr 14 01:19 |
| oiaohm | pro-active gets the challenge out the way. | Apr 14 01:19 |
| oiaohm | So everyone can go about there business not worring about the define. | Apr 14 01:20 |
| balzac | some people are more “purpose driven” and others are more “existentialist” in their philosophy | Apr 14 01:20 |
| oiaohm | businesss are more purpose driven. | Apr 14 01:21 |
| balzac | I’m a small businessman, and my business plans are derived from my existentialist philosophy | Apr 14 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : u r a rare case | Apr 14 01:23 |
| balzac | perhaps I will take advantage of the short-term, purpose-driven nature of my competitors. | Apr 14 01:23 |
| _Hicham_ | u maybe right | Apr 14 01:23 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe philosophy will win at last | Apr 14 01:23 |
| _Hicham_ | but u should incorporate oiaohm philosophy for sure | Apr 14 01:24 |
| balzac | yeah, maybe he can work for me | Apr 14 01:24 |
| *silentivm has quit (“*** [make] Error 2″) | Apr 14 01:25 | |
| balzac | if he shows a bit more enthusiasm for GNU software | Apr 14 01:25 |
| oiaohm | This country gets warped. If a contract is too complex to understand judge has the right here to kick it back to both parties to be recreated. | Apr 14 01:25 |
| oiaohm | Software is a tool to get a job done balzac | Apr 14 01:25 |
| oiaohm | Some GNU software I like others I hate extreamally. | Apr 14 01:26 |
| oiaohm | GNU at least has a higher percentage of programs I like than MS does. | Apr 14 01:26 |
| balzac | oiaohm: software can be more like a glove and less like a tool for me | Apr 14 01:26 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm do not care about philosophy | Apr 14 01:27 |
| balzac | I’m not strictly utilitarian in my approach | Apr 14 01:27 |
| balzac | yeah, he might enjoy some shrooms | Apr 14 01:27 |
| oiaohm | System admin. | Apr 14 01:27 |
| balzac | or better yet, smoke some marijuana | Apr 14 01:27 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm just want the greatest tools out there | Apr 14 01:27 |
| oiaohm | I kinda have had to be utilitarian. | Apr 14 01:27 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : have u ever smoked some marijuana? | Apr 14 01:28 |
| balzac | oiaohm: you don’t have to stop loving what you do just because you have to do it. | Apr 14 01:28 |
| oiaohm | Who said I don’t love my work. | Apr 14 01:28 |
| balzac | utilitarianism is work. you can appreciate your work as an art form. | Apr 14 01:28 |
| oiaohm | marijuana never smoked eaten before for pain control. | Apr 14 01:28 |
| balzac | if you’re not appreciating the “art” of systems administration, perhaps there’s room for you to enjoy your work more than you do. | Apr 14 01:29 |
| oiaohm | The art of putting toeghter a fully secure system. | Apr 14 01:29 |
| oiaohm | MS windows drives me nuts on that one. | Apr 14 01:29 |
| balzac | fine, well if you see it as an art form, it’s not strictly utilitarian | Apr 14 01:29 |
| oiaohm | Linux BSD Solarias. | Apr 14 01:29 |
| oiaohm | Selection of applications for secuirty is basically utilitarian. | Apr 14 01:30 |
| oiaohm | Either its good or its bad. | Apr 14 01:30 |
| balzac | not so | Apr 14 01:30 |
| oiaohm | For the task no middle ground. | Apr 14 01:30 |
| balzac | risk can also be mitigated by insurance, so you may choose a less secure method if it can save time on configuration or development | Apr 14 01:31 |
| balzac | there is middle ground | Apr 14 01:31 |
| balzac | it’s not either good or bad | Apr 14 01:31 |
| oiaohm | MS logic. | Apr 14 01:31 |
| _Hicham_ | troolean logic? | Apr 14 01:31 |
| balzac | that’s just a general business principle | Apr 14 01:31 |
| oiaohm | Lets make system easy to configure and forget security. | Apr 14 01:32 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : that is a good one | Apr 14 01:32 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully no one will notice. | Apr 14 01:32 |
| *Balrog_ has quit () | Apr 14 01:32 | |
| _Hicham_ | of course | Apr 14 01:32 |
| _Hicham_ | u should do that | Apr 14 01:32 |
| _Hicham_ | friendliness is more important | Apr 14 01:32 |
| balzac | oiaohm: or perhaps you know a certain percentage will notice, and you will modify policy and code accordingly | Apr 14 01:32 |
| *Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-68-238-235-164.phil.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 14 01:32 | |
| oiaohm | You can get simple to configure and highly secuire with work. | Apr 14 01:32 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : u have to take into account the learning curve | Apr 14 01:33 |
| balzac | perhaps you’re already tracking security breaches, and none of them alone can compromise your business plan. | Apr 14 01:33 |
| *Balrog_ has quit (Client Quit) | Apr 14 01:33 | |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_ most secuirty problems are pure stupidity. | Apr 14 01:33 |
| balzac | oiaohm: case in point – email protocol and spam | Apr 14 01:33 |
| oiaohm | I have a simple evil for that. | Apr 14 01:34 |
| balzac | not very secure protocol, yet it has been tolerated until 90% of email is spam | Apr 14 01:34 |
| oiaohm | Called a trojan mail account. | Apr 14 01:34 |
| balzac | people are still chugging along | Apr 14 01:34 |
| oiaohm | Anything sent to that account is spam. | Apr 14 01:34 |
| oiaohm | So removed from the rest. | Apr 14 01:34 |
| oiaohm | When out of my way to get it listed everywhere. | Apr 14 01:34 |
| oiaohm | that spammers pick up email addresses | Apr 14 01:35 |
| oiaohm | Everything has counter messures. | Apr 14 01:35 |
| oiaohm | Problem is a OS like windows makes it hard. | Apr 14 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Mostly stupid selections that you have to try to fix. Like applicatins not being design not to run as administartor. | Apr 14 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Its like my network unknown worm detection for windows. | Apr 14 01:37 |
| oiaohm | Its so simple back up all harddrives to a centeral server and compare the differences. | Apr 14 01:38 |
| oiaohm | Provides good backups of clients and good detection if the core of OS gets breached. | Apr 14 01:39 |
| balzac | i’m sorry you have to use windows | Apr 14 01:39 |
| oiaohm | Same here. | Apr 14 01:39 |
| balzac | so do i, unfortunately. just for browser tests. | Apr 14 01:39 |
| oiaohm | Tax offince in this countray does not support anything else. | Apr 14 01:39 |
| oiaohm | Not even Mac. | Apr 14 01:39 |
| balzac | sick | Apr 14 01:39 |
| oiaohm | I started off lot like you. Just hear you have accept it. | Apr 14 01:40 |
| oiaohm | hear/here | Apr 14 01:40 |
| oiaohm | I really want to be rid of Windows Servers. | Apr 14 01:41 |
| oiaohm | Windows clients if I have to live with them so be it. | Apr 14 01:41 |
| balzac | like me? | Apr 14 01:42 |
| balzac | maybe so, maybe not. | Apr 14 01:42 |
| balzac | no bureaucrat breaks my “maverick” personality | Apr 14 01:42 |
| oiaohm | There is a difference here. I was a little too far maverick at one point. | Apr 14 01:43 |
| schestowitz | Whoa. Turns out that American troops up here in Yorkshire already make copies of all transatlantic E-mail and run parsers on them to interpret pattern: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v… | Apr 14 01:43 |
| balzac | oiaohm: so you were brow-beaten and your ego never recovered its original shape? | Apr 14 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly. | Apr 14 01:44 |
| balzac | it looks a bit lumpy from where i’m sitting ;0) | Apr 14 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Started as a secuirty tester. | Apr 14 01:45 |
| oiaohm | My goal is to protect systems from harm as much as able what is a mirror to my past goal. That was to crack every OS in existance at least once. | Apr 14 01:45 |
| oiaohm | I completely my first goal. | Apr 14 01:46 |
| schestowitz | It’s bad enough that civil liberties are lost here, but by imperialists too? | Apr 14 01:46 |
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| oiaohm | That is what I was get at that email is not secret. | Apr 14 01:46 |
| oiaohm | Same with the internet access. | Apr 14 01:47 |
| oiaohm | You can cause hell sending the list of words they search for. | Apr 14 01:47 |
| balzac | “feeding the NSA line-eater” | Apr 14 01:47 |
| oiaohm | Particularly when you do have the complete correct list. | Apr 14 01:48 |
| oiaohm | Supprising how fast there repsonce time is. | Apr 14 01:49 |
| oiaohm | To be correct lack of. | Apr 14 01:49 |
| oiaohm | 2 months latter got contacted about it. | Apr 14 01:49 |
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| balzac | I don’t have the time or inclination to yank their chains | Apr 14 02:04 |
| schestowitz | This guy’s cool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… | Apr 14 02:05 |
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| balzac | We could use more guys like him in the CIA | Apr 14 02:21 |
| balzac | I’m pretty content with Leon Panetta as CIA Director, so far. | Apr 14 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Found a network glitch at long last. | Apr 14 02:22 |
| oiaohm | God darn ants. | Apr 14 02:22 |
| schestowitz | Haha. | Apr 14 02:22 |
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| schestowitz | Bug in the program | Apr 14 02:22 |
| schestowitz | Literally/. | Apr 14 02:22 |
| balzac | Maybe an ant-eater will be your security helper | Apr 14 02:23 |
| balzac | Using ant-eaters for security – O’Reilly Publishing | Apr 14 02:24 |
| balzac | but it would have another unrelated animal on the cover | Apr 14 02:24 |
| oiaohm | Finding it has been a channage and a half. | Apr 14 02:24 |
| balzac | challenge? | Apr 14 02:24 |
| schestowitz | balzac: gets a gecko | Apr 14 02:24 |
| schestowitz | Like in Fraser | Apr 14 02:24 |
| balzac | Frasier? | Apr 14 02:25 |
| oiaohm | Had geckos in switches before. | Apr 14 02:25 |
| schestowitz | balzac: yes, typo | Apr 14 02:25 |
| oiaohm | They are straong. | Apr 14 02:25 |
| oiaohm | strange | Apr 14 02:25 |
| schestowitz | Was one of my favourite programmes | Apr 14 02:25 |
| balzac | Frasier is annoying | Apr 14 02:25 |
| oiaohm | Dyslexia winning. | Apr 14 02:25 |
| balzac | I’m embarrassed to admit having sat through a few episodes | Apr 14 02:25 |
| schestowitz | balzac: he’s annoying, yes. | Apr 14 02:25 |
| schestowitz | Daphne was cute | Apr 14 02:25 |
| balzac | Dyslexia is an over-used excuse for lazy people | Apr 14 02:26 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, good night | Apr 14 02:26 |
| balzac | nite roy | Apr 14 02:26 |
| balzac | i liked everyone but frasier | Apr 14 02:26 |
| oiaohm | Compared to what I can be that is minor. | Apr 14 02:26 |
| balzac | because I know he’s a Bush-lover | Apr 14 02:26 |
| balzac | before that, he didn’t really bother me | Apr 14 02:26 |
| oiaohm | If I was lazy you would not be able to read a thing. | Apr 14 02:27 |
| oiaohm | About 1 in 10 words I have to retype before sending. | Apr 14 02:27 |
| balzac | “If I were lazy” | Apr 14 02:27 |
| balzac | re-type | Apr 14 02:27 |
| balzac | maybe | Apr 14 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Some days I am. | Apr 14 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Most of those days I am too lazy to be online as well. | Apr 14 02:28 |
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| balzac | there’s a pill for that | Apr 14 02:35 |
| balzac | adderall | Apr 14 02:35 |
| balzac | but it’s bad for you | Apr 14 02:35 |
| balzac | I’m drinking two 5-hour caffeine drinks per day | Apr 14 02:36 |
| balzac | not great either | Apr 14 02:36 |
| oiaohm | caffenine + dyslexia equals 100 percent unreadable documents. | Apr 14 02:36 |
| oiaohm | That is not a option for me If I want to be able to type or write. | Apr 14 02:37 |
| oiaohm | Fine if I am reading documents. | Apr 14 02:37 |
| balzac | everyone has dyslexia and ADD | Apr 14 02:38 |
| balzac | you just need a less sympathetic employer to help you realize you’re replaceable… jk | Apr 14 02:39 |
| balzac | I need to get something to eat | Apr 14 02:39 |
| oiaohm | Everyone does to a point. I have worked on my dyslexia to remove most of its problems. I started off not being able to type a single sentence because of it. | Apr 14 02:46 |
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| oiaohm | These days It gives me annoyance balzac | Apr 14 02:46 |
| tacone | omf | Apr 14 02:47 |
| tacone | this just went on planet ubuntu | Apr 14 02:47 |
| tacone | http://jbailey.livejournal… | Apr 14 02:47 |
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| DaemonFC | MinceR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaADQ… | Apr 14 06:11 |
| DaemonFC | you should like that | Apr 14 06:11 |
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| MinceR | DaemonFC: lol | Apr 14 06:57 |
| DaemonFC | I managed to cut about 80% of Vista out with vLite | Apr 14 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | and the system still installs and runs | Apr 14 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | |
Apr 14 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | it fits on a CD too | Apr 14 07:00 |
| *DaemonFC put it into Virtual Box for when something refuses to run in Wine | Apr 14 07:01 | |
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| DaemonFC | EA Confirms Mass Effect 2 for 2010 – Won’t comment on if you can get through the first level without the Red Ring of Death this time | Apr 14 07:16 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 14 07:16 |
| DaemonFC | Google Earth now does Google Mars, letting users fly from the Olympus Mons to Dick Cheney’s Halliburton Pod in 3d | Apr 14 07:18 |
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| DaemonFC | Mincer: http://freexpkey.ytmnd.com/ | Apr 14 07:30 |
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| DaemonFC | http://video.google.com/videopl… | Apr 14 07:34 |
| DaemonFC | FAIL on word 5 | Apr 14 07:34 |
| DaemonFC | ouch | Apr 14 07:34 |
| schestowitz | Thailand’s Chaos Exposes Division Between Rich, Poor < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=… > | Apr 14 07:57 |
| schestowitz | “This really is remarkable. You really need to look at it closely, particularly this sentence: Fifty percent of those surveyed by Dimensional Research said they’ve considered switching to a non-Windows OS to avoid Vista or Windows 7. ” http://www.informationweek.com/ne… | Apr 14 08:01 |
| schestowitz | Won’t be long before Miceosoft bribes Forrester and IDC for contradictory.. lies, as usual (like with Vista) | Apr 14 08:05 |
| schestowitz | http://jbailey.livejournal.c… “I propose that the next release of Ubuntu be 9.11, and be called “Bumbling Bush”" *LOL* | Apr 14 08:06 |
| schestowitz | Conroy Wins – Germany De-Registers Wikileaks.de < http://www.itwire.com/cont… > | Apr 14 08:10 |
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| schestowitz | State of Illinois is of ODF: http://www.tax.illinois.gov/L… | Apr 14 08:12 |
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| schestowitz | Will Linux overtake Windows on netbooks? Some analysts say so. < http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9022… > | Apr 14 08:16 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: SO basically XP is getting too old to handle the new and cool stuff, but Vista and 7 are too broken and slow to upgrade to” | Apr 14 08:19 |
| schestowitz | Half Of Microsoft Employees Use Google To Search Web. Ballmer told them not to. http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-microso… | Apr 14 08:19 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft has made the perfect storm of shit for itself | Apr 14 08:19 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I think business know it’s a marketing stunt . Vista7 that is | Apr 14 08:19 |
| schestowitz | Vista was the same | Apr 14 08:19 |
| schestowitz | Go back in time to 2006 | Apr 14 08:19 |
| schestowitz | See Vista reviews and coverage | Apr 14 08:20 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7 has only gotten worse | Apr 14 08:20 |
| schestowitz | IT WAS HAILED, I REMEMEBER. I saw it 15 hours/day | Apr 14 08:20 |
| DaemonFC | in fact I can now run a lot of stuff in Wine that Vista, 7, or both will fail to load | Apr 14 08:20 |
| schestowitz | Another 3600 (or more jobs) at Microsoft to drop. Well, they did the crimes. http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-… | Apr 14 08:21 |
| schestowitz | Hiow many of these will be WIndows XP/2000 patchers? | Apr 14 08:21 |
| DaemonFC | I liked Windows 2000 | Apr 14 08:23 |
| DaemonFC | but after that they just started to take away features and put in DRM to take control away from the user | Apr 14 08:24 |
| schestowitz | Greed/Hubris | Apr 14 08:24 |
| schestowitz | IBm did the same thing” | Apr 14 08:24 |
| schestowitz | “We build it, they will come” (Field of dreams) | Apr 14 08:24 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is now busy /openly/ attacking Apple and Linux, which is telling | Apr 14 08:24 |
| DaemonFC | they’re trying to make it look like they have a business plan with new product deployments | Apr 14 08:25 |
| DaemonFC | by tweaking Vista | Apr 14 08:25 |
| schestowitz | They have to | Apr 14 08:28 |
| schestowitz | Office is a bigger headache | Apr 14 08:28 |
| DaemonFC | meh, IBM is alright, they’re not actualyl doing a lot with AIX these days | Apr 14 08:28 |
| schestowitz | It brought more income | Apr 14 08:28 |
| DaemonFC | they’re pushing LInux | Apr 14 08:28 |
| schestowitz | But now they dump it | Apr 14 08:28 |
| schestowitz | Likle$50 for students | Apr 14 08:28 |
| schestowitz | Here in the UK they have TV ads selling it for like GBP60 to anyone | Apr 14 08:29 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah, and student means you have to be enrolled for 1 credit hour | Apr 14 08:29 |
| DaemonFC | |
Apr 14 08:29 |
| schestowitz | And they’ll need to move to subscription online | Apr 14 08:29 |
| schestowitz | (they still build it) | Apr 14 08:29 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I actually got Vista and Office for $5 each | Apr 14 08:29 |
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| DaemonFC | through the student program | Apr 14 08:29 |
| schestowitz | YEs, not good for them. | Apr 14 08:30 |
| schestowitz | It’s expensive though | Apr 14 08:30 |
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| schestowitz | I reckon like 2/3 of the installlations are counterfeited | Apr 14 08:30 |
| schestowitz | Singapore, Vietnam, Russia, Kenya, Brazil… | Apr 14 08:30 |
| schestowitz | No crackdowns there, almost | Apr 14 08:30 |
| DaemonFC | Well, I used to just buy used copies of Windows and Office | Apr 14 08:30 |
| DaemonFC | so I really didn’t care what it cost | Apr 14 08:30 |
| DaemonFC | cause I was getting them for $10-20 | Apr 14 08:31 |
| schestowitz | Maybe buiness users pay for it, they have more to lose if caught | Apr 14 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | they have more chance to get caught | Apr 14 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft comes in and audits them | Apr 14 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | if you swipe a copy of Vista, the only way they’d know is if they saw you in the bittorrent swarm | Apr 14 08:31 |
| schestowitz | Well, *there’s* a turn of events: http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-google… (Google Decides Not To Cave To South Korean Government) | Apr 14 08:32 |
| DaemonFC | thats assuming you shut down updates and put all of Microsofts domains in the hosts file |
Apr 14 08:32 |
| schestowitz | They don’t want to catch people | Apr 14 08:32 |
| schestowitz | They want to just create a scare | Apr 14 08:33 |
| schestowitz | To improve conversion rates (paid/nopt paid) | Apr 14 08:33 |
| schestowitz | That’s why they have “terrorism day” like so-called “piracy awareness day” or whatever | Apr 14 08:33 |
| DaemonFC | right, if they started to prosecute, millions of people using unlicensed copies would say “Oh shit” and grab a Linux CD instead | Apr 14 08:33 |
| DaemonFC | that’s not what they want to do | Apr 14 08:33 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: they tried in China | Apr 14 08:33 |
| schestowitz | Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | don’t pay for the software, [...] Someday they will, though. As long as they | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They’ll get sort of | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | next decade.” | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | –Bill Gates | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft blacks out pirated desktops; Chinese bloggers fume | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | http://government.zdnet.com/?p=4135 | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | Chinese surfers see red over Microsoft black-outs | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.reuters.com/article/te… | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | Chinese Hackers Angered By Microsoft’s Epic Fail | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.informationweek.com/news/w… | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | Chinese blast Microsoft over ‘black screen’ piracy notice | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.nytimes.com/external/idg/… | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft faces boycott in China over ‘virus’ which shames pirated software | Apr 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | users | Apr 14 08:34 |
