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04.25.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 24th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:42 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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the_mad_hatter Reason I ask is that Ubuntu 8.04 will boot on my P3 Thinkpad, but 8.10 won’t. Apr 24 14:49
oiaohm DRI 1 only support 1 opengl program at a time. Apr 24 14:49
oiaohm Its also the first direct rendering system designed for X11. Apr 24 14:49
oiaohm And its only just being replaced now. Apr 24 14:50
oiaohm Yep a rendering system over 20 years old still in use by most Linux distributions DRI 1. Apr 24 14:50
MinceR and MacOS “classic” is even worse. Apr 24 14:50
the_mad_hatter But it is getting fixed, which is the main point. Apr 24 14:50
MinceR oiaohm: and an OS that’s more than 30 years old is the base of most modern OS-es now, and the ones that aren’t based on it tend to be inferior by far. :> Apr 24 14:51
oiaohm DRI 1 was designed before opengl existed MinceR Apr 24 14:51
MinceR :) Apr 24 14:51
oiaohm Yes the bugger is showing its age. Apr 24 14:51
MinceR what was it designed for then? Apr 24 14:51
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oiaohm 2d graphics and 2d accelerator only MinceR yes and we have been shoving opengl threw it. Apr 24 14:52
MinceR ic Apr 24 14:53
oiaohm Basically completely not upto the job. Apr 24 14:53
oiaohm Also pre video cards having there own memory to manage too. Apr 24 14:53
oiaohm Its more of a good luck than good management that DRI 1 works as good as it does . Apr 24 14:54
oiaohm Sooner we are rid of DRI 1 the better.  It served as well but its well past its retirement. Apr 24 14:55
oiaohm Think about it MinceR If I pulled up a OS from 30 years ago and told you that you could not alter how anything works.  Would you want to be using it today. Apr 24 14:56
oiaohm That is basically what happened to DRI 1.  Its current structs and internal design match its design from over 20 years ago. Apr 24 14:57
MinceR things might be more alterable than they seem Apr 24 14:57
schestowitz twitter: Apple too is falling to an extent Apr 24 14:57
schestowitz The press hardly covers the main story Apr 24 14:57
MinceR i certainly didn’t know X could be extended so far as it was since i started using it. Apr 24 14:58
schestowitz Microsoft dfelcted the stupid press to revenue #, not profit Apr 24 14:58
oiaohm Not in the case of DRI 1. Apr 24 14:58
oiaohm Opengl was having to be translated into DRI1 code on applicaiton side then translated back to video card code on the other side. Apr 24 14:58
oiaohm DRI 1 section of X11 had no design for addon alterations. Apr 24 14:59
oiaohm Intel lead graphical driver designer spent 2 years looking at DRI1 in a hope of finding a way to upgrade it. Apr 24 15:00
oiaohm Before resorting to scorched earth method. Apr 24 15:00
oiaohm Because DRI 1 design flaws are basically not fixable and remain compadible. Apr 24 15:01
schestowitz Apple down, Microsoft down, Linux up: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/24… Apr 24 15:01
oiaohm Apple is doing the right thing. Apr 24 15:02
oiaohm Apple profits are up.  They see the storm coming and prepairing for it. Apr 24 15:02
schestowitz Red hat prospects  are up.  They see the storm coming and prepairing for it. Apr 24 15:03
schestowitz To rephrase Apr 24 15:03
oiaohm Redhat has also braced. Apr 24 15:03
schestowitz Red Hat still hires Apr 24 15:03
schestowitz E.g. Mandriva devs Apr 24 15:03
oiaohm They are not expanding as fast on programmers as there profit allows. Apr 24 15:03
schestowitz OK, but Red hat can wait patiently with the desktops developed also by other companies that sell Linux (e.g. Canonical). Let Microsoft knock itself out with kickbacks Apr 24 15:04
schestowitz Then Red hat can strike Apr 24 15:04
schestowitz Google is already entering the desktops from the bottom to the top Apr 24 15:04
schestowitz Phone->netbooks-> … Apr 24 15:04
oiaohm I am talking about another lack of money storm. Apr 24 15:05
oiaohm Big problem redhat risk is companies retreating to in house. Apr 24 15:05
oiaohm USA lack of regulation some one need to be skinned alive for it. Apr 24 15:06
oiaohm But the lack of regulation is giving Linux the best chance its ever had. Apr 24 15:07
oiaohm Once Linux get to top.  I expect to see freebsd and solarias and others also start pushing there way back into the market. Apr 24 15:09
MinceR sounds like wishful thinking :> Apr 24 15:10
schestowitz Well, POSIX Apr 24 15:10
schestowitz POS UNIX :-) Apr 24 15:10
schestowitz “Yet another big technology corporation is bemoaning the lack of engineering talent for hire in the United States. This time it’s Google. ” http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?t… Apr 24 15:12
schestowitz The World Outpaces Redmondland in GNU/Linux Interest…. Apr 24 15:15
the_mad_hatter Just think of how frustrating it must be for Microsloth. There’s all this really good source code that they can see, but cannot use…. Apr 24 15:18
schestowitz Try this link: http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/onl… Apr 24 15:20
schestowitz Something funny happens Apr 24 15:20
schestowitz Oh, it works now Apr 24 15:20
schestowitz There was maybe a DNS cough Apr 24 15:20
schestowitz the_mad_hatter: they can start again with Singularity Apr 24 15:21
schestowitz How much time do they have and how much money for development at their disposal? Apr 24 15:21
the_mad_hatter But do they have the talent? Apr 24 15:21
schestowitz Well, Microsoft is Kool…………… Aide Apr 24 15:22
schestowitz Aid Apr 24 15:22
oiaohm Most programs that run on Linux run on solarias and freebsd MinceR Apr 24 15:22
oiaohm X11 graphical system rewrite is also being picked up by them. Apr 24 15:22
the_mad_hatter Or for that matter OSX Apr 24 15:23
oiaohm OSX has a different graphical system. Apr 24 15:24
oiaohm Does not get as rich of ground from Linux being dominate. Apr 24 15:24
MinceR osx can run some form of x, if you can put up with its inherent retardedness Apr 24 15:24
MinceR but bsd-s are held back by some factors Apr 24 15:25
MinceR such as the developers’ hatred of innovation :> Apr 24 15:25
the_mad_hatter I run X on OSX, for Inscape Apr 24 15:25
the_mad_hatter Inkscape Apr 24 15:25
oiaohm Not everything will work right with OSX version of X Apr 24 15:25
oiaohm Ok they might join the great X11 update. Apr 24 15:25
MinceR for example, window managers ;) Apr 24 15:25
the_mad_hatter To make Inkscape work you have to install a new version of X Apr 24 15:26
oiaohm That is still a dri 1 X Apr 24 15:26
MinceR hm, can you run xorg on osx? (so that x won’t be just a few extra windows but rather it can manage the whole screen) Apr 24 15:27
oiaohm Does not have the dri2 advantage of X11 bypass for opengl and the like. Apr 24 15:27
oiaohm dri2 requires kernel alterations. Apr 24 15:28
oiaohm OSX might if they do it will be good.   DRI2 + KMS allows X11 stacking.  Ie running a full X11 with windows manager in a window with full opengl support. Apr 24 15:28
Balrog MinceR: you could run OS X in full screen mode in 10.4 Apr 24 15:30
Balrog but when they switched from Xfree86 to Xorg they ran into problems Apr 24 15:30
schestowitz “Twitter is an ideal medium to inject fake facts into society for precisely this reason.” http://www.schneier.com/blog/archi… Apr 24 15:30
Balrog it’s very close to being finished in Xorg / 10.5, if it’s not already there Apr 24 15:30
oiaohm It will get worse. Apr 24 15:31
Balrog oiaohm: …? Apr 24 15:31
oiaohm X.org will drop dri1 support at some point. Apr 24 15:31
oiaohm So far OSX has not started work on what is required for dri2 Apr 24 15:32
Balrog they moved from Xorg 1.3 to 1.4 in 2008.07.19 Apr 24 15:34
the_mad_hatter Let’s face it – the proprietary software companies are falling behind, and will never catch up. Apple makes great hardware, but while they once had a huge lead in OS development, they’ve lost that lead now, and will never regain it. As for Microsoft, all they ever were was Apple wannabes, and it shows. Apr 24 15:37
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Balrog Apple will be forced to change parts of their business methods with time Apr 24 15:37
oiaohm X.org 1.5 is the start of the dri2 line. Apr 24 15:39
Balrog OK. Their Xorg 1.5 source tree has /some/ activity Apr 24 15:40
oiaohm Note start Apr 24 15:40
Balrog hopefully will be ready in time for 10.6 Apr 24 15:40
Balrog yes. Apr 24 15:40
oiaohm Most of dri2 appears in 1.6 and more will appear in 1.7 Apr 24 15:40
oiaohm This is why I say it will get worse. Apr 24 15:40
the_mad_hatter If it wasn’t for Free Software, specifically BSD licensed, Apple would be dead. Apr 24 15:40
Balrog “First release including the 1.5 server branch” is due in 3 weeks Apr 24 15:41
Balrog the_mad_hatter: don’t forget NeXT Apr 24 15:41
oiaohm 1.6.1 is out. Apr 24 15:42
oiaohm of X.org Apr 24 15:42
Balrog yes, I know … Apr 24 15:42
Balrog many people still use 1.5 Apr 24 15:42
Balrog like with GCC … not everyone is switching to 4.4 yet Apr 24 15:42
the_mad_hatter what was NEXT based on? Apr 24 15:42
the_mad_hatter BSD. Apr 24 15:42
oiaohm 1.5 without extras still is DRI 1. Apr 24 15:43
Balrog Mach kernel, BSD userland (portions), Objective-C/”cocoa” GUI Apr 24 15:43
oiaohm Linux and BSD kernels are both having a really rough time of DRI 2 alterations. Apr 24 15:45
oiaohm OS X has a extra complexitity there own graphical envorment. Apr 24 15:45
Balrog yes, that’s what’s good about it….Cocoa/Obj-C Apr 24 15:46
the_mad_hatter from an end user standpoint none of that matters Apr 24 15:47
oiaohm Performance matters. Apr 24 15:48
the_mad_hatter all that matters is whether or not it works, and it doesn’t work any better than Ubuntu/Fedora/Mandriva Apr 24 15:48
Balrog true, but the OS X interface tends to be better from an end user standpoint (but some dispute this) Apr 24 15:48
oiaohm Another area were Linux kernel is still having fun. Apr 24 15:48
the_mad_hatter OSX is fancier than Ubuntu/Fedora/Mandriva, but it’s not fancier than Moon OS. Apr 24 15:50
trmanco Is Mono a religion or a technology? Apr 24 15:50
trmanco : http://nocturn.vsbnet.be… “What I’m not fine with is the continued personal attacks of the Mono camp against all that oppose it, including myself, the Gnote developers and someone we all owe a lot to, Richard Stallman.” Apr 24 15:50
trmanco isn’t this familiar ? Apr 24 15:50
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schestowitz Microsodfr> Apr 24 16:05
trmanco yeah Apr 24 16:06
schestowitz What happens when Gordon Brown gets angry? The laser printer gets it < http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics… > Apr 24 16:07
schestowitz Good link BTW Apr 24 16:07
schestowitz The headline reminded me of what people call the MS religion Apr 24 16:07
trmanco 84 percent say no thanks to Windows 7: http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/en… Apr 24 16:07
trmanco hehe Apr 24 16:07
schestowitz It’s acommon term that refers to the ‘ecosystem’+the shills Apr 24 16:07
schestowitz Like, in private conversation, people would talk about Enderle as preaching the MS religion. Apr 24 16:08
MinceR what’s the term? Apr 24 16:08
schestowitz Mary Jo Foley is scared of Apple fanboys Apr 24 16:08
schestowitz She even uses trhe term Apr 24 16:08
schestowitz She told me some hours ago, “the Apple fanboys” Apr 24 16:08
Balrog isn’t she an MS shill? Apr 24 16:09
Balrog or at least pro-MS? Apr 24 16:09
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: Windows is sinking and you will now see Microsoft pocket everything they can from license agreements with PC manufactures and product trims before abandoning the platform Apr 24 16:10
schestowitz Balrog: yes Apr 24 16:11
schestowitz But she’s more approachable Apr 24 16:11
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: old news :-) Apr 24 16:12
schestowitz Some already abandoned it, remember? Apr 24 16:12
schestowitz Acer’s CEO said in 2007 that “the entire industry” is disappointed with Vista Apr 24 16:12
schestowitz other OEMs ditched  Windows (ASUS for example) before Microsoft bribed their way back Apr 24 16:13
schestowitz And the losses might have to do with some of the bribes Apr 24 16:13
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: true but major manufacturers will eventually see the light once they notice that cross software platform compatibility is easier then ever with the dearth of scripts and JScript becoming more robust then ever. Apr 24 16:13
Carl_Rover2k12 not to mention much easier compilers Apr 24 16:13
schestowitz Never Download a PPT or TIFF Again With Gmail’s Updated Viewer < http://mashable.com/2009/04/2… > Apr 24 16:14
Balrog <http://news.slashdot.org/article…. … Appeals Court Stays RIAA Subpoena Vs. Students Apr 24 16:14
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: well, Java too Apr 24 16:14
Balrog schestowitz: read that article Apr 24 16:15
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: we will have to see how Oracle can manage to market any new platforms since they exclusively own the rights to distribute the official Java updates Apr 24 16:15
Balrog the title is unclear Apr 24 16:15
Balrog (the ‘Never Download’ one Apr 24 16:15
Balrog ) Apr 24 16:15
*schestowitz I do Apr 24 16:15
*schestowitz tired of MAFIAA Apr 24 16:16
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: whats your opinion on the survivability of SPARC Apr 24 16:16
*schestowitz distracted too much by other more corrupt groups Apr 24 16:16
*Carl_Rover2k12 amen Apr 24 16:16
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: I wouldn’t call them the lesser of evils Apr 24 16:16
*schestowitz listens to non-RIAA musc Apr 24 16:16
the_mad_hatter gotta run Apr 24 16:17
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: who knows? Oracle will cut down though Apr 24 16:17
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Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: hopefully they will divert more to the OpenSPARC project, so the divestment can go smoothly. Anyway I read that Oracle won’t be totally giving up on SPARC though and continue to fund its development for their high end servers Apr 24 16:18
schestowitz Tasers – How they’re really used < http://ralpress.org/2009/04/24/ta… > Apr 24 16:18
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: it would be nice to have an open source hardware platform Apr 24 16:19
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: Oracle can make good money selling hw Apr 24 16:19
schestowitz But too much competition Apr 24 16:19
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: only if yo have fabs Apr 24 16:19
schestowitz Print some in garage somewhere Apr 24 16:19
schestowitz Stallman uses a good chair analogy Apr 24 16:20
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: good thing is SPARC servers cost less then IBM POWER servers and they can still run with them performance wise when it comes to crunching threaded data Apr 24 16:20
schestowitz Like burning a chair Apr 24 16:20
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: can you image a 1.4Ghz UltraSPARK RK Niagra competing with a 5.7Ghz POWER6 with the fraction of the electric cost, but then again people should know megahertz isn’t everything Apr 24 16:21
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: sorry about hijacking your topic for a bit there Apr 24 16:22
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: also I don’t get your analogy, you mean fab out chipsets in a garage, you can’t do that with the size they are working at now. Apr 24 16:24
schestowitz Yeah, I was joking Apr 24 16:25
schestowitz I often wonder about how the process is doned Apr 24 16:25
schestowitz I’m sure Wikipedia has the info and YouTube has nice videos. Apr 24 16:25
*schestowitz not much of a hardware person. Software Engineer (1st class, Hons) by education… Apr 24 16:26
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: ask Steve Wozniak Apr 24 16:26
schestowitz In the older days people needed to know both well Apr 24 16:26
schestowitz Like memory addressing also, hardware limits, etc. Apr 24 16:26
schestowitz Not its more abstract Apr 24 16:26
schestowitz Java even takes away understanding how how anything beneath the VN/framework works Apr 24 16:27
schestowitz A bit like FLash/dreamweaver to Web stds Apr 24 16:27
schestowitz Internet graveyard — victims of the second great depression: MySpace and Geocities — separated at birth < http://www.wordyard.com/2009/… > Apr 24 16:28
schestowitz What a brilliant site name and picture: http://thelaststrawman.com/ The Last Straw(man) Apr 24 16:30
schestowitz Artificial Intelligence Cracks 4,000-Year-Old Mystery < http://blog.wired.com/wiredscien… > Apr 24 16:30
schestowitz GeoCities will close later this year. < http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yaho… >. They have some good and important sites there, including some about Microsoft and Linux Apr 24 16:32
schestowitz Trial debut for malaria vaccine from mosquito spit  < http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn… > Apr 24 16:32
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: China could give a huge boost to Linux with its chips: http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/… Apr 24 16:33
schestowitz Imperial overstretch of the copyright cartel is costing the EU parliament/s (and OBAMAA/Biden) in reputation: http://www.openrightsgroup.org/2009… Apr 24 16:35
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: geez, will they ever actually develop that chip for consumer use or just create new uses and constantly keep it in perpetual development. To me this is resembling less like a cohesive plan and more like a Pentagon style defense contract. Apr 24 16:35
schestowitz “Debian developer Robert Millan is offering an alternative kernel for Debian’s Lenny free Linux distro. ” http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/… Heh. I know Robert… Apr 24 16:37
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: no shite sherlock, the Obama administration regardless of executive consent is in bead with the MAFIAAs and large Law firms, they were major contributors to his campaign. Flooding the Department of Defense with former RIAA lawyers should have been a clue Apr 24 16:37
schestowitz Yes, I know Apr 24 16:37
schestowitz I keep posting about it Apr 24 16:37
schestowitz Others do all over the place Apr 24 16:37
schestowitz I watched an Obama video last night Apr 24 16:38
schestowitz It annoyed me Apr 24 16:38
schestowitz They forcus only on his personal life Apr 24 16:38
schestowitz Now, AFAIK, with professional people you’re supposed to AVOID this side Apr 24 16:38
schestowitz Not with OBAMA Apr 24 16:38
schestowitz They distract the masses Apr 24 16:38
schestowitz Telling stories of wife and kids Apr 24 16:38
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: so now the US is stuck with pro-life and business Supreme Court justices left over from the Bush term and the DoD is filled with their lackies. This will be an interesting year for setting or repealing landmark precedents for indivisual rights Apr 24 16:38
schestowitz Like Bush and his “cutting brush” tales Apr 24 16:38
schestowitz But NOTHING ABOUT HIS POLICIES Apr 24 16:39
schestowitz The whole interview says nothing professional Apr 24 16:39
schestowitz Just fluff Apr 24 16:39
schestowitz The Hollywood presidency Apr 24 16:39
schestowitz Oh wait… Apr 24 16:39
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: well its just like the Kennedy years Apr 24 16:39
schestowitz Schwarzenegger and Reagan Apr 24 16:39
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: except now the powers that be hope this cult of personality plays ball with them Apr 24 16:39
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: if he doesn’t there is probably some psychotic ex-Iraq or Afghanistan war veteran waiting in the winds to be unleashed Apr 24 16:40
schestowitz Hmmm…:-( Apr 24 16:40
schestowitz see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Au_… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Au_… Apr 24 16:40
schestowitz I watrched this in the morning Apr 24 16:41
schestowitz Part of a string of interesting videos Apr 24 16:41
schestowitz Former CIAians spilling beans Apr 24 16:41
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: cool, i will have to watch it later though as I have to get going soon Apr 24 16:42
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Carl_Rover2k12 so what do you think of The New American Century so far? Apr 24 16:44
schestowitz New? Apr 24 16:45
Carl_Rover2k12 lol Apr 24 16:45
schestowitz What is the precise period this refers to? Apr 24 16:45
Carl_Rover2k12 now Apr 24 16:45
schestowitz It’s not very new Apr 24 16:45
schestowitz Like the war on terrorism Apr 24 16:45
schestowitz It was merely redeclared this century Apr 24 16:46
schestowitz IIRC it was first declared in the 70s or 80s Apr 24 16:46
Carl_Rover2k12 I guess its like Winston Churchill said about Fascism when Hitler said it was a New World Order, “It is neither new nor order.” Apr 24 16:46
schestowitz The targets changed slightly, that’s all Apr 24 16:46
schestowitz Need for oil Apr 24 16:46
schestowitz The big overthrows began in 1953 with Iran < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRKx6yAGjPY >, but there’s lots more in the 19th century even. Apr 24 16:46
schestowitz Those old ones I didn’t know about Apr 24 16:46
schestowitz Like Tahiti Apr 24 16:47
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: I recently found old Winston lives for 90 years Apr 24 16:47
schestowitz And he was a heavy smoker, so it surprised me a bit Apr 24 16:47
schestowitz Bernays lives for more than 100s Apr 24 16:47
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: he must have smoked natural tabacco then Apr 24 16:48
schestowitz Like an evil dinosaur behind the US propaganda culture… living forever to inflict pain. Apr 24 16:48
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: don’t you mean Camel Apr 24 16:49
schestowitz I think my grandma did em Apr 24 16:49
schestowitz Bernays taught women to smoke Apr 24 16:49
schestowitz The “torches of freedom” stunt Apr 24 16:49
schestowitz So he — in my opinion — assisted the killing of tens of millions of women so far Apr 24 16:50
schestowitz Including my grandma who was a heavy smoker Apr 24 16:50
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: be sure to watch some of these videos later. These are no crackpots Apr 24 16:50
schestowitz Fox news is afraid of two types: crackpots, people who say the truth too bluntly Apr 24 16:51
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: and thoughtful soldiers Apr 24 16:52
schestowitz Yes, got to SupportTheSoldiers(C) Apr 24 16:52
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: did you see how Bill O’Rielly treated that Special Forces officer who dared say that the US was doing torture Apr 24 16:52
schestowitz SupportTheSoldiers(C)=keeping them in Iraq{tm} Apr 24 16:52
schestowitz SupportTheSoldiers(C) != bringing them home to wife&kids Apr 24 16:53
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: I don’t watch Fox Apr 24 16:53
schestowitz But I hate Bill O’Rielly Apr 24 16:53
schestowitz He attacks deceny Apr 24 16:53
schestowitz Like Bill Maher Apr 24 16:53
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: actually now the military is promoting marriage within its ranks Apr 24 16:53
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: so then the wife, husband and maybe even kids continue “serving their country” Apr 24 16:54
schestowitz I like listening to prof. Chalmers Johnson these days because he’s calm and rational: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=… Apr 24 16:54
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: I see.. Apr 24 16:54
schestowitz Well, maybe they can grow soldier familes in Iraw Apr 24 16:54
schestowitz They already built swimming pool facilities there, didn’t they? Apr 24 16:54
schestowitz They also have a cinema for baseball and stuff. Apr 24 16:54
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: I even talked to a Naval Officer who said the Pentagon was really backing the building of large Super Carriers and putting women in the military as a way to create new Edens of sort in case of any catostrophic outbreak of desease on the mainland Apr 24 16:55
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: I hope this all backfires in the future when a soldier class realizes they are being exploited without much benefit and rise behind a Julius Caesar like leader Apr 24 16:56
schestowitz Well, benefits… Apr 24 16:57
schestowitz Give me a break.. Apr 24 16:57
schestowitz What are promised benefit when a state goes bankrupt Apr 24 16:57
schestowitz Military might is only posturing amid financial pain Apr 24 16:57
schestowitz It is no substitute Apr 24 16:57
schestowitz The Romans learned this the hard way , but they lasted for longer (centuries) Apr 24 16:58
schestowitz I don’t keep my eyes on the FOSS ball much because of distraction due to stuff like MAFIAA and politics, which is getting ugly in line with the economy. It also makes investigation of corruption in tech more timely and intriguing. Apr 24 16:59
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: true, but all the capital Microsoft works hard in raking won’t amount to much if the economy suffers a total collapses Apr 24 17:00
schestowitz Yes, the customers Apr 24 17:01
schestowitz Worldwide even Apr 24 17:01
schestowitz But people still require servicing Apr 24 17:01
schestowitz Which is why medical fields are ahrdly affected Apr 24 17:01
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: maybe they hope by getting nestled in government contracts M$ will get free protection and laws passed to enforce the exclusive use of their software Apr 24 17:01
schestowitz I ought to have gone more aggressively in the direction of medicine Apr 24 17:01
schestowitz I’m already in medical biophysics Apr 24 17:01
schestowitz But the sites take a lot of my time Apr 24 17:01
schestowitz People come and read, so it’s addictive Apr 24 17:02
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: why MS and not another sw company? Apr 24 17:02
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: because they already have the market penetration Apr 24 17:02
schestowitz Big Blue used to be the Big Baby of the Feds (and the Nazis). Maybe it still it. FAR FAR bigger than MS, not in terms of markey cap Apr 24 17:02
schestowitz *ket Apr 24 17:02
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: also, the medical field is very much affected by this crisis, at least in the US where equipment and services are loaned more often then actually given Apr 24 17:03
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: like pneumonia has “market penetration” Apr 24 17:03
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: also new technologies can’t come about without healthy startups Apr 24 17:03
schestowitz They need secure solution Apr 24 17:03
schestowitz For cybersecurity Apr 24 17:03
schestowitz They can’t standardise on houses of glass Apr 24 17:03
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: Big Blue became too much of a liability for governments to work with Apr 24 17:03
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: you mean medical R&D? Apr 24 17:04
schestowitz Well, I see it here Apr 24 17:04
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: yes Apr 24 17:04
schestowitz Don’t expect to become a post-doc easily Apr 24 17:04
schestowitz It was bad enough before Apr 24 17:04
schestowitz With people changing career paths and research areas Apr 24 17:04
schestowitz I mostly land on sctivism Apr 24 17:04
schestowitz *activism Apr 24 17:04
schestowitz Reserch grants will fall Apr 24 17:04
schestowitz No no ‘wanking about’ with research papers for money from the educational budget Apr 24 17:05
schestowitz They say the west has developed a culture of laziness Apr 24 17:05
schestowitz That all the Real Work is done in CHina Apr 24 17:05
schestowitz Like 15 hours/day making shoes Apr 24 17:05
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: not really, its just western finance is very short cited Apr 24 17:05
schestowitz There’s a work for it Apr 24 17:05
schestowitz “Knowledge workers” Apr 24 17:05
schestowitz Meaning: we’re the “smart guys”, the rest take orders Apr 24 17:06
schestowitz Carl_Rover2k12: and sighted Apr 24 17:06
schestowitz Also cited Apr 24 17:06
schestowitz :-) Apr 24 17:06
Carl_Rover2k12 schestowitz: I suppose, we will see how it pans out Apr 24 17:06
Carl_Rover2k12 anyway got to be going now Apr 24 17:06
schestowitz OK Apr 24 17:06
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schestowitz One blogger asks: “Is Mono a religion or a technology?” http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/24/… Apr 24 17:22
schestowitz Balmer FUDs GOogle today in Kohn: http://qik.com/video/1537201 Apr 24 17:26
schestowitz He reads his mail without PAs Apr 24 17:29
schestowitz The hAl astroturfer is small editing the Wikipedia page for Microsoft, even on ODF  http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?t… Apr 24 17:32
schestowitz /small/still/ Apr 24 17:32
schestowitz Glyn Moody would love this one: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/… Apr 24 17:56
schestowitz Here’s ballmer talk for download: http://qik.com/video/e2e035ee5c… He makes some good points. Anything hairy in there? Else I don’t want to spread it… Apr 24 18:00
schestowitz More new PCs come with Linux preinstalled: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/0… Apr 24 18:12
trmanco lets have some wine? -> http://winehq.org/announce/1.1.20 Apr 24 18:22
schestowitz No thanks. I’m driving back. Apr 24 18:29
schestowitz I’ll get wine if I find a driver Apr 24 18:29
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schestowitz People drop paper and move to electronic paper. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/04/… Apr 24 18:35
trmanco hehe Apr 24 18:40
schestowitz Policing the dark side of the net < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/… > Apr 24 18:41
schestowitz BB-She on problems with info. Hypocrites Apr 24 18:41
schestowitz They have spread a fair bit of propaganda for ages and got caught for it. Apr 24 18:41
schestowitz Enthusiastic reviews of Ubuntu/GNU/Linux 9.04 keep arriving, e.g. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3… http://arstechnica.com/open-source/new… Apr 24 18:45
schestowitz “The Big Brother Award – a prize awarded to [...] have “excelled” in the violation of our privacy” http://robertogaloppini.net/2009… Apr 24 18:48
schestowitz A good summary of links about the impact of Oracle/Sun: http://blogs.the451group.com/opensour… Apr 24 18:55
schestowitz Some companies put “open source” in their PR although they are purely proprietary. Old trick. http://www.codefutures.com/weblog/pre… Apr 24 18:57
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schestowitz Eruaran: it was a big day yesterday: http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/… Apr 24 19:17
Eruaran hi roy Apr 24 19:20
Eruaran I’m reading that article now Apr 24 19:20
schestowitz Red Hat deceives Brits by equating customers to FOSS affinity: http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/… England is very low. Apr 24 19:20
schestowitz *very low in FOSS. Apr 24 19:21
Eruaran interesting article Apr 24 19:26
Eruaran I’m convinced that in the coming months we can expect to see Microsoft training its guns directly upon Canonical. Apr 24 19:27
Eruaran I expect Microsoft will use proxies. Apr 24 19:27
Eruaran To try and destroy Canonical. Apr 24 19:28
Eruaran They will do or use whatever they can to bring down anything tangible they see as a threat. Apr 24 19:28
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Eruaran Thats my prediction for the moment. Apr 24 19:29
schestowitz Eruaran: in coming months? Apr 24 19:30
Eruaran Ubuntu has traction. Microsoft will be wanting to “cut off their air supply”. Apr 24 19:30
schestowitz They already do that Apr 24 19:30
schestowitz See the Canonical post about MS FUD Apr 24 19:30
schestowitz “Microsoft, FUD, and netbooks” Apr 24 19:30
Eruaran Thats nothing. Apr 24 19:30
schestowitz Or something like that Apr 24 19:30
Eruaran I’m expecting more serious moves. Apr 24 19:31
schestowitz I agree that they’ll do it indirectly Apr 24 19:31
schestowitz They do this already with NPD for example Apr 24 19:31
schestowitz But they have morre Apr 24 19:31
schestowitz I am preparing abother post about thus Apr 24 19:31
schestowitz I gathered lots of new data Apr 24 19:31
schestowitz On Microsoft’s messing about inside FOSS Apr 24 19:31
schestowitz It’s like a cancel inside FOSS, to use Ballmer’s words Apr 24 19:32
Eruaran Canonical is a target. Apr 24 19:32
Balrog schestowitz: http://kinesismomentum.wordpress.com/… Apr 24 19:32
Balrog about MS surface Apr 24 19:32
Balrog it’s a good read Apr 24 19:32
Eruaran I’d bet money that right now they’ve got people trying to dig up anything they can on Canonical. Apr 24 19:32
Eruaran They’ll be floating all options, from Mono licensing to OpenOffice disruption through Novell, to putting pressure on OEM’s/ISV’s, to examining all of Canonicals activities. Apr 24 19:34
schestowitz FOSS in US government,. developed using taxpayers’ money (how it should be done): http://govhealthit.com/articles/2009/04/2… Apr 24 19:35
Balrog schestowitz: looked at that article? Apr 24 19:36
Eruaran They will be looking for the most aggressive things they can do against Canonical’s interests while trying to not bring heat upon Microsoft. Apr 24 19:36
schestowitz Surface is dead Apr 24 19:36
schestowitz It can’t be revived Apr 24 19:36
Balrog I know it’s dead Apr 24 19:36
schestowitz Another Zune.. waste of money Apr 24 19:36
schestowitz It cann’t earn ISVs Apr 24 19:36
schestowitz Zune didn’t allow any in, anyway Apr 24 19:36
Balrog that article summarizes its ‘usability’ Apr 24 19:36
schestowitz Balrog: looking now Apr 24 19:36
Balrog not that good, actually Apr 24 19:36
schestowitz Stupid gates wanted surface Apr 24 19:37
schestowitz Bach (the fraudster) told him not to Apr 24 19:37
schestowitz He knew it would fail before launcxh Apr 24 19:37
schestowitz Hehe. “The whole experience was probably best summed up by Amanda who, when asked why it was taking us so long to get the machine up and running, and why we all looked so unhappy, replied “Oh, it’s just so…Microsofty.”” Apr 24 19:38
schestowitz Balrog: don’t spread it around too much though Apr 24 19:38
schestowitz It’s  better not to draw any attention to this dead thing Apr 24 19:38
schestowitz That only gives it visibility Apr 24 19:38
schestowitz Seeing it with the plastic is funny Apr 24 19:39
schestowitz A bit like when they bring marble items into a house… or some couch Apr 24 19:39
schestowitz That’s why they call it ‘big-arse table’ Apr 24 19:39
Balrog OK, I’m not spreading it Apr 24 19:39
schestowitz Where is it manufactured anyway and how do they import/distribute this junk? Apr 24 19:39
Balrog someone in one irc room mentioned it and I though it might be interesting Apr 24 19:39
schestowitz It was another Microsoft attempt to monetise on hw Apr 24 19:40
schestowitz They envy APple Apr 24 19:40
schestowitz Xbox and Zune failed too Apr 24 19:40
schestowitz No hw success Apr 24 19:40
Balrog heh yes. Apr 24 19:40
schestowitz Except mice, ehich I think is just something Microsoftt BOUGHT, not developed in house. Apr 24 19:40
Eruaran Apple = smart implementation of multi touch that brings it to the masses in an affordable and cool way that makes consumers say, “oooh I want one !” Apr 24 19:40
Eruaran Microsoft = erm… where do you turn this big ass table on ? Apr 24 19:41
Balrog Microsoft mice seem to work OK. althought I had horrible ones. Apr 24 19:41
Eruaran I have one Apr 24 19:41
Eruaran Its dying Apr 24 19:41
Eruaran its only a few months old Apr 24 19:41
schestowitz Malaysia’s migration to FOSS is on its way already: http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story… Apr 24 19:41
schestowitz Eruaran: my Logitech mouse broke too Apr 24 19:41
schestowitz The unbranded one I have has been fine for 4 YEARS! Apr 24 19:42
schestowitz Logitech — less than a year Apr 24 19:42
Eruaran heh Apr 24 19:42
schestowitz Mouse wheel went bad Apr 24 19:42
schestowitz Same with some shoes I have Apr 24 19:42
schestowitz Cheap ones can last 5 years Apr 24 19:42
Eruaran I’ve seen some expensive Logitech mice fail Apr 24 19:42
schestowitz Sneakers that is Apr 24 19:43
schestowitz Nike — just months Apr 24 19:43
Eruaran Mind you, they got replaced under warranty Apr 24 19:43
schestowitz And it happens in both shoes at the same time Apr 24 19:43
schestowitz So you know it’s a design problem Apr 24 19:43
tessier_ “aims to enhance cost savings by implementing an open source software system in all 724 agencies under its management in the public sector by early next year.” They are going to migrate thousands of systems in a year? Apr 24 19:43
schestowitz It’s consistent… as though it’s planned obsolescence for shoes. Apr 24 19:43
schestowitz tessier: some have been migrated already Apr 24 19:43
schestowitz Eruaran: so did others Apr 24 19:44
schestowitz Like 7 times Apr 24 19:44
schestowitz XBox 360 Apr 24 19:44
schestowitz Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Pick, replace, Apr 24 19:44
schestowitz Not cheap for the Vole Apr 24 19:44
schestowitz $7 billion in loses in XBox bizniz Apr 24 19:44
Eruaran I love it when that happens Apr 24 19:44
Eruaran let em bleed cash Apr 24 19:45
schestowitz They still get sued for it Apr 24 19:48
schestowitz MS has been sued dozens of times over XBox, sometimes class action Apr 24 19:48
schestowitz Half the staff should be marketing (PR) and lawyers Apr 24 19:48
Balrog heh, yeah. Apr 24 19:52
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amarsh04 just tried 2.6.30-rc3 on other machine and the “How to enable EXA and Xv” instructions on http://wiki.x.org/wiki/radeo… – Radeon 3200 HD now plays video with minmal cpu overhead and free drivers Apr 24 20:00
schestowitz Recession Reporter Laid Off… Denied Chance To Publish Final Piece About Getting Laid Off < http://techdirt.com/articles/20… > Apr 24 20:00
tessier_ hah Apr 24 20:01
schestowitz Typical. Apr 24 20:01
schestowitz I think I saw this before Apr 24 20:01
schestowitz They even quickly withdrew the story in this case Apr 24 20:01
Balrog amarsh04: … foss driver? Apr 24 20:01
schestowitz Censorship makes what we know as ‘mainstream media’ Apr 24 20:01
amarsh04 reminds me of the old Mad Magazine piece on Sesame Street called “reality street” where the show gets shut down Apr 24 20:01
amarsh04 yes Balrog Apr 24 20:02
Balrog great. Full 3D …? Apr 24 20:02
Balrog that ‘Windows is not engineered for security’ article is still down, right? Apr 24 20:03
amarsh04 not full 3d though Apr 24 20:07
schestowitz Yup, Broadband Providers Still Hate Muni Competition < http://techdirt.com/articles/2… > That’s why there’s only an illusion (collusion) of competition. Apr 24 20:07
schestowitz Balrog: InfoWorld article still down Apr 24 20:07
schestowitz Was up for over 5 years Apr 24 20:07
Balrog they probably pulled it Apr 24 20:08
schestowitz Some months after I cited it in lots of place BANG it’s gine Apr 24 20:08
schestowitz *gone Apr 24 20:08
schestowitz Let me ask the editor why it vanished Apr 24 20:08
schestowitz I spoke to him before on some occasions Apr 24 20:08
Balrog hmm .. ok. He’s cooperative with you? Apr 24 20:08
Balrog i.e. not hostile? Apr 24 20:09
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp… Apr 24 20:09
schestowitz Balrog: yes Apr 24 20:09
Balrog ok. Apr 24 20:09
amarsh04 that’s why Pamela Jones of Groklaw makes archive copies of web pages she uses Apr 24 20:09
schestowitz Tgere are other examples of dodging articles Apr 24 20:10
schestowitz Ones that damage Microsoft’s reputation Apr 24 20:10
schestowitz In IDG. Apr 24 20:10
schestowitz amarsh04: I have that automated Apr 24 20:10
schestowitz “Hi Paul, A couple of months ago I noticed a missing article, which is cite here for example. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?si… The InfoWorld article was there until about 2 months ago (site redesign). Can it be restored?” Apr 24 20:12
schestowitz Let’s wait for a reply Apr 24 20:12
Balrog ok. Apr 24 20:14
schestowitz Watch the criminalisation of people who point at URLs rather than the infringers: http://techdirt.com/articles/200904… Apr 24 20:14
Balrog how can pointing at a url be a crime?!? Apr 24 20:14
Balrog it’s just like citing a reference in the footnotes of a research paper Apr 24 20:15
amarsh04 good move, schestowitz Apr 24 20:20
Eruaran So they’re picking on students who can’t afford to fight them in court Apr 24 20:21
Eruaran how big of the mafia Apr 24 20:21
Balrog yeah that too :( Apr 24 20:22
amarsh04 dropping old stuff from web-sites is very “1984″ Apr 24 20:22
Eruaran Just another reason for when I get my site up, my music will be free to download and will never be the “property” of any of these corporate scumbags Apr 24 20:23
Eruaran indeed very 1984 Apr 24 20:23
amarsh04 I’d love to be able to convince my old uni to keep an archive of details of past concerts that their music school put on Apr 24 20:23
Eruaran Ministry of Truth Apr 24 20:23
schestowitz I got a response now. Apr 24 20:23
schestowitz “I’ve had a few of these since the redesign, where articles easily accessible before now can’t be found. Most of the time, old articles still are there. I think you’re referring to the article linking to “states flat out.” I’ll see what I can do. “ Apr 24 20:24
schestowitz I guess one needs to check if other URLs broke too Apr 24 20:24
amarsh04 I had a very interesting read when I went to the state library archive looking at the primary school’s music festivals for past years, lots of people involved who went on to become nationally and internationally recognised musicians Apr 24 20:25
amarsh04 s/school’s/schools’/ Apr 24 20:25
amarsh04 our national broadcaster has been very good with their web archives Apr 24 20:26
Balrog I see … Apr 24 20:27
schestowitz Oh boy… LinuxToday is trolled again: http://linuxtoday.com/news_sto… So much trolling this week (comments) Apr 24 20:29
schestowitz Hear, hear. Why Linux Will Crush Windows 7 on Netbooks < http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Why_Li… > Apr 24 20:31
Balrog Eruaran: just be careful so they don’t steal it Apr 24 20:34
Balrog use some CC license Apr 24 20:34
Eruaran I will Apr 24 20:35
Balrog RMS said for artistic stuff CC-Attribution-Non-Commercial is good Apr 24 20:35
Eruaran yes Apr 24 20:35
schestowitz infoworld editor: “Do you have the article headline, by any chance?” Apr 24 20:37
schestowitz Can you help me find it? Apr 24 20:37
Balrog web archive Apr 24 20:38
schestowitz I don’t have it stored anywhere, I think Apr 24 20:38
schestowitz Oh yeah Apr 24 20:38
Balrog you have the URL? Apr 24 20:38
schestowitz http://web.archive.org/web/2008020… Apr 24 20:38
schestowitz He’ll restore it Apr 24 20:39
schestowitz Less 404s from my end ;-) Apr 24 20:39
Balrog good. Apr 24 20:41
schestowitz “Let me see if we can get this on the new site. This article is several years’ old so maybe they just didn’t link back that far. But I have another  article from two months’ ago that also can’t be found. “ Apr 24 20:45
schestowitz Looks innocent, unless there’s mischief among the maintainers of the site. Apr 24 20:45
schestowitz If it’s a broader issue then I at least help him ‘debug’ a potentially big problem he wasn’t aware if Apr 24 20:45
schestowitz *of Apr 24 20:45
schestowitz Why it’s a good year for GNU/Linux now that Microsoft’s profit sank by  a third: http://linuxgeeksunited.blogspot.com/2… Apr 24 20:48
Balrog schestowitz: there were other articles several years old that didn’t disappear Apr 24 20:50
schestowitz Ubuntu gets very good reviews today: http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/sof… Apr 24 20:52
schestowitz Balrog: yes, but what proportion of them? Apr 24 20:52
MinceR even from micro$oft, apparently Apr 24 20:52
schestowitz ANyway, he’s concerned by this, so he didn’t take it down deliberately Apr 24 20:52
schestowitz Despite being an MS apologist a lot of the time Apr 24 20:53
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Balrog I have no idea. Apr 24 20:53
Balrog ok. Apr 24 20:53
schestowitz Drupal should consider a  migration to AGPL(v3). Now it’s the right time. https://fossbazaar.org/content/tom… Apr 24 20:56
schestowitz Same with WordPress. I’ve tried and they did not dismiss this Apr 24 20:56
schestowitz But they have not upgraded yet, either. Apr 24 20:56
Balrog the only thing with AGPL is: would I have to make my themes under AGPL as well? Apr 24 20:57
schestowitz Cloud computing is ‘security nightmare,’ says Cisco CEO < http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology… > What might be his motives here? Does that harm router sales? Apr 24 20:58
trmanco Gnote is already being translated Apr 24 20:58
schestowitz Balrog: not sure. Haven’t thought about it, but I don’t think so Apr 24 20:58
Balrog hmm ok. That would be problematic, so try to get info about that Apr 24 20:59
schestowitz You can keep your themes/plugins without disclosure Apr 24 20:59
Balrog themes, yes Apr 24 20:59
schestowitz They don’t get ‘mixed’ with the engine/core anyway Apr 24 20:59
Balrog plugins … has been disputed Apr 24 20:59
schestowitz plugins are more complex Apr 24 20:59
Balrog CiviCRM is a case in point Apr 24 20:59
schestowitz Because they go deeper and near the code Apr 24 20:59
*trmanco has a peak into Gnote’s source code Apr 24 20:59
schestowitz Joomla/Mambo had such issue, the former in particular (disputes/flames) Apr 24 21:00
Balrog they claim it doesn’t make Drupal AGPL; Drupal claims CiviCRM does Apr 24 21:00
schestowitz trmanco: gnote gets lots oif attention Apr 24 21:00
schestowitz It’s wortking Apr 24 21:00
schestowitz I told some journalists about it and they covered it Apr 24 21:00
schestowitz So it’s like network effect Apr 24 21:00
Balrog CiviCRM gets advice from OSF-related sources Apr 24 21:00
schestowitz Alan Lord recommends it in the anti-Mono page for Ubuntu 9.04 Apr 24 21:00
Balrog url? Apr 24 21:01
schestowitz gnote is good because it RAISED awareness about the Mono issue Apr 24 21:01
schestowitz People ask,”but why not Tomboy” Apr 24 21:01
schestowitz This opens up for a discussion about TomTom and TomBoy and Mono Apr 24 21:01
schestowitz Balrog: hold on Apr 24 21:01
schestowitz http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/… Apr 24 21:01
Balrog I hope Mono is dropped by 9.10 or 10.04 at the latest Apr 24 21:02
trmanco I could offer myself to translate this app into my language Apr 24 21:03
Balrog go ahead. Apr 24 21:04
Balrog schestowitz: I posted info on blocking mono in gentoo Apr 24 21:05
schestowitz I keep seeing people who bring up the Net Applications figures, which are Apple|MS-sponsored. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/… Apr 24 21:06
Balrog just add ‘dev-lang/mono’ to /etc/portage/package.mask Apr 24 21:06
schestowitz Balrog: excellent. Apr 24 21:06
Balrog then you’ll get a block when trying to install anything that depends on mono Apr 24 21:06
schestowitz It’s not just practical but also educational Apr 24 21:06
schestowitz People need to be aware of the ISSUES Apr 24 21:06
Balrog now we need mononono for fedora / RHEL / centos Apr 24 21:06
schestowitz Seeing a page that instructs for removal of mono leads to learning for the users who don’t follow Linux news (or n00bs) Apr 24 21:07
schestowitz Tom Chase maintains it Apr 24 21:07
schestowitz I think he’s a Groklawian Apr 24 21:07
Balrog yes, but Tom Chase’s thing is Debian/Ubuntu only :/ Apr 24 21:07
schestowitz Yes Apr 24 21:07
schestowitz But the code is there Apr 24 21:07
schestowitz Simple ./configure ; make; make install Apr 24 21:08
schestowitz Unless it has distro-secific stuff Apr 24 21:08
schestowitz Like blocking certain repos Apr 24 21:08
Balrog no, it’s distro specific Apr 24 21:08
schestowitz I never looked into it Apr 24 21:08
schestowitz Mandriva doesn’t have mono Apr 24 21:08
Balrog most package managers will just overwrite files like that if they’re not referenced in the package manager Apr 24 21:08
schestowitz Though it was gonna install it when I required cetain packages for file indexing on my HDD Apr 24 21:08
Balrog …which packages? Apr 24 21:08
schestowitz I can’t recall Apr 24 21:09
schestowitz It’s in an IRC log somewhere Apr 24 21:09
Balrog ok. Apr 24 21:09
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/… Apr 24 21:11
MinceR i thought beagle was completely monoized from the start Apr 24 21:11
schestowitz Seems like manual migration in IDG: “From what I’ve been told, we migrated old content from as far back as ’03 or ’04. The article you referenced was from ’02. Maybe over time they will migrate back further. “ Apr 24 21:11
MinceR but we have strigi and tracker Apr 24 21:11
MinceR (and who knows what else) Apr 24 21:11
schestowitz That’s the latest from him.. Apr 24 21:12
Balrog migrating to…what? Apr 24 21:12
Balrog ahh mono Apr 24 21:12
Balrog “Apple Fires 1,600 Full-time Employees” looks stupid Apr 24 21:14
Balrog you don’t /fire/ 1600 employees, you lay them off Apr 24 21:14
schestowitz hackintosh: http://jaysonrowe.com/2009/04/23/… Apr 24 21:14
schestowitz Balrog: yes, it’s longer to write it Apr 24 21:14
Balrog firing is usually for bad performance Apr 24 21:15
Balrog yes but it gives a bad impression Apr 24 21:15
schestowitz It sure does Apr 24 21:15
Balrog there are synonyms to ‘lay off’ Apr 24 21:15
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schestowitz When yuou fire employees Apr 24 21:15
schestowitz :-) Apr 24 21:15
schestowitz What did Apple expect? Apr 24 21:15
schestowitz ;-) Apr 24 21:15
Balrog it’s food for the trolls Apr 24 21:15
schestowitz Nope Apr 24 21:15
Balrog or detractors, maybe Apr 24 21:15
schestowitz It’s like being sacked Apr 24 21:15
schestowitz “made redundant” is a common phrase here Apr 24 21:16
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Balrog retail shops have been losing money in general Apr 24 21:16
Balrog not only in the computer field Apr 24 21:17
Balrog / technology Apr 24 21:17
schestowitz Lookin’ good: Palm Pre spotted in the wild, possibly running YouTube < http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/23/pa… > keyboard, 3d effects.. better than my Palm Tungsten. Apr 24 21:17
schestowitz Balrog: yes, they have Apr 24 21:18
schestowitz Linux hardly has computer shops Apr 24 21:18
schestowitz There are hardware shops. Linux is fetched from the Web. Apr 24 21:18
Balrog more people are buying online Apr 24 21:18
Balrog (hardware) Apr 24 21:18
Balrog not software Apr 24 21:18
schestowitz So Linux is not so dependent on hw sale Apr 24 21:18
schestowitz *sales Apr 24 21:18
schestowitz Just subscriptions for the most part Apr 24 21:18
schestowitz Is it possible to get a Pre without a phone? Apr 24 21:19
schestowitz You know, the one that’s a small computer that does not fry the  owner’s brain? Apr 24 21:19
Balrog I don’t think so. Apr 24 21:19
Balrog though you probably can put it in airplane mode Apr 24 21:20
schestowitz My Palm has Bluetooth but it’s short-range and always disabled Apr 24 21:20
schestowitz Airplanes allow cellphones now Apr 24 21:20
schestowitz Depends where Apr 24 21:20
MinceR airplane mode means turning off the phone part Apr 24 21:20
MinceR (it’s a stupid name) Apr 24 21:20
Balrog yes. Apr 24 21:21
schestowitz Heise is indeed just echoing the FUD from the Vole http://www.h-online.com/open/Linux-cache-… Apr 24 21:21
Balrog Nintendo is cheating people who did software modifications on their Wii. For a repair that would normally cost ~$75, they’re charging ~$190 if “software hacks” are detected. <http://hackmii.com/2009/04/warranty> Apr 24 21:22
schestowitz Ubuntu and copyright < http://fasmz.org/~pterjan/blo… > Apr 24 21:23
schestowitz ” Another Anonymous Coward  (2009-04-24 03:07) Apr 24 21:24
schestowitz There should be more control in everything Linux. Apr 24 21:24
schestowitz   Adam Williamson (2009-04-24 05:01) Apr 24 21:24
schestowitz well, just don’t look too closely at the .ttf files Mandriva ships in /contrib. =) “ Apr 24 21:24
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schestowitz Wow. Even FOSS hater Beranger likes Ubuntu… http://beranger.org/v3/wor… Apr 24 21:26
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schestowitz Hmmm… weird error in the BN comment section. Something’s not working,. Apr 24 21:31
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*trmanco peaks into winehq’s website source code Apr 24 22:59
trmanco I can really learn something just passing my eyes through the code Apr 24 23:00
schestowitz That’s the way to learn coding Apr 24 23:01
schestowitz Says RMS Apr 24 23:01
schestowitz And also a thief called billg Apr 24 23:01
schestowitz Who stole code from trash can Apr 24 23:01
schestowitz And claimed it his own :-) Apr 24 23:01
trmanco hehe Apr 24 23:02
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 24 23:02
*tessier_ should read more code from other people Apr 24 23:02
*magentar (n=magentar@94.79.154.216) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 24 23:05
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 24 23:05
*trmanco has quit (“ERROR: crap-talking overflow – Aborting”) Apr 24 23:15
Balrog schestowitz: patent troll won case, got $19M from apple Apr 24 23:28
Balrog http://www.appleinsider.com/articles… Apr 24 23:28
Balrog sued AMD before Apr 24 23:28
schestowitz I know Apr 24 23:28
Balrog Court of East Texas Apr 24 23:28
schestowitz Patent Hawk screws over many companies too ATM Apr 24 23:29
schestowitz I was gonna do a post tomorrow Apr 24 23:29
schestowitz You live in a deregulated country Apr 24 23:29
schestowitz The corrupt survives Apr 24 23:29
schestowitz [the rest pays bailout ;-) ] Apr 24 23:29
*The_Mad_Hatter (i=d06557d1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6d401cd8201233dc) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 24 23:42
The_Mad_Hatter Article bill gates security as a lockin – sounds like what both the British and American governments did following 911, clamp down on security, and to hell with the public. Apr 24 23:44
tessier_ The public supported it. Apr 24 23:48
tessier_ The public said “to hell with us” and ate up the fear mongering. Apr 24 23:48
schestowitz re: bailout: Will be less funny when house price plunge below half their old value and a lot more people lose their life savings Apr 24 23:52
schestowitz tessier: did you protest before/around 2003? Apr 24 23:53
schestowitz It’s hard for most people to escape and ignore the media Apr 24 23:53
schestowitz They are taught to have trust installed in them through the media Apr 24 23:53
tessier_ Did I protest what? Apr 24 23:55
tessier_ There’s so much worthy of protest. Apr 24 23:56
schestowitz tessier: you’ll enjoy this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M… Apr 24 23:56
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