EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

07.31.09

Bill Gates Wants to Maximise “Patented Stuff”

Posted in Antitrust, Apple, Bill Gates, DRM, GNU/Linux, Microsoft, Patents at 3:55 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Zune

Summary: In a Microsoft conversation that gives away fear of Apple, Gates still shows his desire to encumber computer components with patents

TODAY’s Comes vs Microsoft exhibit is Exhibit PX07255 (2003) [PDF]. It is a relatively recent exchange of E-mails (relative to the rest of the exhibits prepared for this case).

The full text can be read below (or by using the original PDF scan), but here are the fun bits for the impatient.

Jim Allchin, who managed (or co-managed) Windows at the time, wrote:

There is no question we are being clocked by Apple in a number of dimensions.

Well, that’s quite telling. The rest of the message is interesting too.

Amir Majidimehr, whom we mentioned in [1, 2, 3], writes:

There is no question that we are behind Apple on iPod.

An earlier message from Bill Gates said a lot of stuff. Some people may remember Bill Gates for his ACPI patent abuse [PDF] (interpretation here). Gates wanted to use patents in order to block Linux. In this new exhibit we find something that fits the same pattern. Gates writes:

What do we want in cameras for metadata and UI? What do we want relative to device discovery? (hopefully patented stuff).

Yes, got to have “patented stuff”! In a separate message, Gates explicitly said that he wanted it to act as a barrier against Linux.

Adding to lock-in, Will Poole talks about DRM, e.g.:

4. MusicMatch and Napster both use our media format and DRM exclusively, at their option. AOL is integrating WM9 into their player for next year. All of them are working with our platform b/c of our device integration. E-2-e scenarios are still not as good as Apple. But there is consumer choice, and there is a growing ecosystem.

We have more antitrust exhibits about Microsoft and DRM [1, 2]. Microsoft eventually betrayed many DRM partners and last year it back-stabbed those who trusted MSN’s exclusive DRM.

Look at the last E-mail from Bill Gates more carefully to find:

—–Original Message—–
From: Bill Gates
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 9:54 PM
To: Will Poole
Cc: Alexander Gounares; Amir Majidimehr; Chris Jones (WINDOWS)
Subject: Scenario leadership

This whole Apple music experience is one that is interesting to me and makes me wonder where the scenario thinking is in Windows.

Further on it says:

People I know (a rich group I admit) are getting ipods with thousands of songs on them.

Herb Allen has given dozens of his friends I pods with thousands of songs (he bought them).

Warren Buffett just loves the thing.

This ought to get Apple/Mac advocates curious or even excited.


Appendix: Comes vs. Microsoft – exhibit PX07255, as text


From: Jim Allchin
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 9:21 PM
To: Amir Majidimehr; Rick Thompson; Bill Gates; Will Peele
Cc: Alexander Gounares; Chris Jones (WINDOWS); Denmark West; Joe Peterson
Subject: RE Scenario leadership

There is no question we are being clocked by Apple in a number of dimensions. I won’t comment any more beyond what has already been said about the music situation.

In the past we have been very weak regarding scenarios. There was a good start in Windows XP. In fact that is why we called them “experiences” We integrated devices, PC, and services together (e g, Photos). It was truly just a start, but really showed where we needed to go.

We talk about them as experiences on our web site today. See, for e×ample,

http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsXP/experiences/default.asp.

There are other “how to”s online as well. See
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/default.asp. The problem with these though is that they show the seams in our experiences or scenarios very clearly. Many of these are mini-scenarios, but our software doesn’t handle things simply enough today.

We should judge ourselves about how well we understood the obvious scenarios and how seamless it is to accomplish — across devices, pcs, and services. Apple is very good at scenarios. Today their worse space deals with networking. They are improving in this area as well though Too often I fear we worry about making the 10% case visible to the user easily when we should spend our time on ensuring the 90% case is seamless. This needs to be our goal for LH and in fact for all our products.

jim

———————————–
From: Amir Majidimehr
Sent: Mon 11/3/2003 7:43 PM
To: Rick Thompson; Bill Gates; Will Poole
C: Alexander Gounares; Chris Jones (WINDOWS); Denmark West; Jim Allchin
Subject: RE: Scenario leadership

There is no question that we are behind Apple on iPod. We have being trying in the fast few months to see if Apple would support WMA on iPed They said yes, but under terms that we could not live with (perpetual no-cost source/object license, support only in iTunes and NOT media player or service, etc.). We are still working this but
the outlook is not bright.

In parallel with above, we tried to push the rest of the device manufactures to do a better of job of integration than they do today with our media player. But for the most part, they ignored us and shipped either with third-party jukebox software, their own media players, or worse, simple “transfer apps,” None of these work even remotely as well as Apple’s solution. It was not until recently, when Apple moved ITunes to Windows, that these vendors understood the threat Apple represents to their business

In order to make progress here, I have made sure that solving the device competitiveness is priority 1 for DMD. We make sure that new devices coming to market:

1. fully support the new sync engine in media player 9 1 (slated for release mid-next year)

2/15/2005
Plaintiff’s Exhibit
7255
Comes V. Microsoft

MS-CC-RN 000000459584
CONFIDENTIAL


2. support our new device transfer protocol, MTP, which obviates the need for device dnvers for most devices (i.e. “it just works” with media player)

3. 100% work with our (and third-party) music services using our DRM.

We are putting together special marketing/promotion program for partners who make great devices that work well in Windows. (The tricky part will be matching Apple’s huge marketing dollars but we are going to use what we have at our disposal to make do.)

In short, we will assure that there is an integrated, end-to-end story from buying the music to listening to it on the go. This should get us in parity with Apple for the most part. What should get us past them, is the number of choices the user will have and the pricing for the devices. As Will mentioned, all music services other than Apple use our file format, compression and DRM and there is more to come. In addition, the consumer can choose to buy a dirt-cheap, flash memory device (e g under $99) all they way up to high-end hard disk based devices lhat should still cost 30% less than an equiv iPod.

So the net is that we fully agree that we are not doing as well as we should. But our partners have seen the light, and we ourselves, are highly motivated to not lose the end-to-end scenario to Apple. The next few months will be tough but we should come out of it, looking a lot better.

Amir

———————————–
From: Rick Thompson
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 5:10 PM
To: Bitl Gates; Will Poole
Cc: Alexander Gounares; Amir Majidimehr; Chris Jones (WINDOWS); Denmark West; Jim Allchin
Subject: RE: Scenario leadership

Bill: Will is cramming for EU meetings that start next Monday in Brussels (just fyi)
My views:

1. Agility versus Platform in Windows:
We get Scenario leadership when we iterate, like in Media Player, IE (years ago), Tablet and Media Center. “Think: “3 releases in 3 years”. It is much harder to keep Scenario leadership for more lhan a short period of time, when we ship (platform-bound scenario bits) every 3+ years This is particularly true when the scenario is just emerging (like MCE now) Point being: I expect Scenario leadership when we organize / prioritize to iterate 3 releases fast

2. Our own Devices:
Portable Media Center (Media 2 Go) and Windows PVR (both from ToddW) will both drive the integration of Media formats, DRM, Synch, and maybe biz model? JoaB’s Bobsled (remoting) stuff gets us started in the direction of “Windows-ready digital TVs” but we have a loooong way to go

3. Amir should address the Music questions

4. Photos: Good questions. Chris?

———————————–
From: Bill Gates
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:20 AM
To: Will Poole
Cc: Alexander Gounares; Amir Majidimehr; Chris Jones (WINDOWS); Rick Thompson; Denmark West; Jim Allchin

2/15/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000459585
CONFIDENTIAL


Subject: RE: Scenario leadership

These are good points.

I am still unclear if we can get the Samsung or DELL devices to be neutral enough to work with our music service or if we need to get someone to make a device that works with what we do.

I think one outcome of good scenario work is that it would make us understand what we want from peripheral makers.

What do we want in cameras for metadata and UI? What do we want relative to device discovery? (hopefully patented stuff).

In some cases we may want to do a peripheral ourselves but in most cases we want Designed for Windows branded devices made by third parties,

When I hear we have a plan for Designed for Windows cameras, and other devices I will feel like our scenario work is really moving ahead.

Great scenario work would also result in us marketing the guidance to people on how to assemble the pieces to execute on the scenario.

When I see websites/books explaining how to set up for scenarios I will feel like our scenario work is really moving ahead.

I know Media Center is focused on TV/satellite stuff on the PC for their next version and I’ll bet they get that right.

They will end up having a number of devices that they connect to and a Designed for Windows program I will bet.

For music I feel like I had been asking us to collaborate with the Ipod competitors on Designed for Windows for some time.

I didn’t realize they would tie up with specific music services but perhaps I should have, Even in the meeting discussing going into the music download business the need to have device affinity wasn’t discussed.

For photos I think its wide open for us to show leadership

For home surveillance/home security/home control we don’t have any guidance to people.

———————————–
From: Will Poole
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:52 PN
To: Bill Gates
Cc: Alexander Gounares; Amir Majidimehr; Chris Jones (WINDOWS); Rick Thompson; Denmark West; Jim Allchin
Subject: RE: Scenario leadership

I will provide some high level answers and let Amir and Chris and Rick address in more detail:

1. There is more scenario thinking going on than you see. You should have visibility into it — we will fix that. You’ve been asking for a while, so it’s my bad for not seeing it done sooner. There has been lots of scenario definition work done for Longhorn. I will ask that Chris and Rick assign one PGM leader per large group to collect the scenario papers that we have and get them on a STS site I will than ask that we catalog them and see where the holes are before handing you the stack [to look for more holes].

I will follow up to confirm we have completed this to your reasonable satisfaction by end of this month.

2/15/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000459586
CONFIDENTIAL


2. You are 100% right to be concerned about the lock-in Apple is trying to generate with the iPod. It is a fine device for which we must field solid end to end competitive solutions. The only good news is that Apple’s intransigence in formats means that the other 60% of the device market does not work with their software and can’t upgrade to iPod (b/c their WMA music will not play there). We hope to neutralize Apple’s format connection to users by getting them to embrace WMA and to be able to operate within our player environment; Amir is still working on that.

Amir can brief you further on device / player / service scenario work being done between his team and MSN

3. We are not a leader in downloadable music [yet]. We are a leader in downloadable movies (along with two partners: MovieLink and ClnemaNow) If you have not tried MovieLmk, you should. The experience is remarkably good, It is even better on a Media Center 2004 PC. We (I take most of credit and blame here) stopped spending majority of time on music and focused on film/video, over two years ago. There were many reasons for the decision. Most of which I still feel good about. Our lack of leadership in downloadable music is due to combination of that decision as well as MSN’s mis-execution on the service. I’m willing to bet that we will make more money selling MCE 2004 than Apple will selling iPods + iTunes music. You also will not see Apple delivering high definition video in cinemas or on iMacs.

Rick can brief you to the home video and home audio distribution scenarios that are being addressed in the eHome team, in partnership with media and other longhorn teams.

4. MusicMatch and Napster both use our media format and DRM exclusively, at their option. AOL is integrating WM9 into their player for next year. All of them are working with our platform b/c of our device integration. E-2-e scenarios are still not as good as Apple. But there is consumer choice, and there is a growing ecosystem.

Amir can tell you how we plan to partner with these players and partner and/or compete w/ Apple.

5. We just merged the MSN and Windows photo teams. Chris led this effort with David C. Ben Peart is driving the new team and should be able to get much better traction on e2e photo scenarios as a result. Amir is driving next gen photo scenarios to the camera with a project called Photon, which has been very well received by Canon and others.

Chris can update you on FY04 and FY05 photo scenario plans.

6. I agree we need to be proscriptive with customers about how to realize scenario value with our technologies and services. The work we’re doing in retail with Schiro and team is helping there. We need to do more. This is a topic we are working at the Consumer Leadership Team also as you know.

I will ask RickT to follow up with you based on input we got in the last CLT discussion.

Will

—–Original Message—–
From: Bill Gates
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 9:54 PM
To: Will Poole
Cc: Alexander Gounares; Amir Majidimehr; Chris Jones (WINDOWS)
Subject: Scenario leadership

This whole Apple music experience is one that is interesting to me and makes me wonder where the scenario thinking is in Windows.

What is the best scenario paper I have seen? None. Even on Photos which has a lot of people I really haven’t seen anything.

2/15/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000459587
CONFIDENTIAL


Because we are going to be so late with a music service we are going to be behind others almost forever it seems like

All of the hardware people have will be tied to other services.

People won’t want to give up their hardware.

Therefore out player and our leadership and even getting people to connect to Winfs will lose out.

I don’t see enough that we are doing that wilt help us be viewed as a leader.

Part of the scenario involves devices and the installed base of devices. What is our strategy their?

Software updates to the installed base? Musicmatch and Napster have the lead (with Apple),

People I know (a rich group I admit) are getting ipods with thousands of songs on them.

Herb Allen has given dozens of his friends I pods with thousands of songs (he bought them).

Warren Buffett just loves the thing.

I don’t see good scenario thinking for photos, For home connections. For home security. For phone connection.

What cameras are blessed by us? What stops this from being another Ipod situation?

We have seen this a bit already with Kodak and their printing and their photo processing -they connect the pieces and we don’t.

Media center is an exception – they will do good thinking for the high end integrated scenario.

I just don’t see any solution oriented stuff. What MSFT website or book tells you how to do cool stuff with your PC in the home?

Maybe there is a bunch of scenario thinking I just haven’t seen.

2/15/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000459588
CONFIDENTIAL

Credit: wallclimber

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

What Else is New


  1. [ES] La Gerencia de la EPO Bajo Creciénte Estres por las Autoridades Legales Croatas, Políticas Alemanas, y los Medios Italianos

    Las cosas no son color rosa como la calma relativa sugiere, y esperamos en las próximas semanas mayores eventos otros que la protesta en todas las sedes de la EPO a través de Europa



  2. [ES] Los Medios de Comunicación Comienzan a Informar al Público Europeo Acercas de las Desventájas de la UPC Mientras que la EPO Acelera su Cabildeo por Ratificación

    La vergonzósa promoción de la UPC por parte de la EPO da otro paso adelánte mientras que venues de la prensa Europea (incluso canales de televisión) comienzan a explorar el arreglo secreto que es negociado por los abogados de patentes (con clientes corpórativos) y las oficinas de patentes, no el público o cualquier grupo que represente los intereses del público en general



  3. [ES] Algunos Detalles Acerca de ¿Cómo el Presidente de la EPO Es Rumoreado Estar Comprando Votos, y el Porqué es Suficientemente Base Para un Despido Inmediato?

    Algo de información tras las cortinas y una detallada explicación de la dependencia finánciera sistemática, creada por Battistelli a un costode €13 millónes o más, la cuál evita una efectiva supervisión de Battistelli



  4. Mishi Choudhary and Mike Masnick Explain Why India Should Reject Software Patents

    Both an Indian activist-lawyer and a widely-recognised author from the US explain to Indians why over-reliance on patents -- and acceptance of patents on software in particular -- is a very bad idea



  5. Microsoft Boosters Pretend Microsoft Fights for Privacy While the Company Uses Malware Tactics to Put Keyloggers on Everyone's Computers

    In spite of malware-inspired tactics that should land Microsoft in courts of law all around the world (as a defendant), Microsoft-friendly circles pretend that the company fights for people's rights like privacy -- all this when Microsoft installs keyloggers on people's PCs without their consent and obviously against their will



  6. Battistelli's Assault on EPO Staff's Right to Strike in Relation to French Politics and That 'Bicycle' Pretext for Crackdowns

    The latest bicycle 'gossip' and how it's being used, based on expectations from EPO staff, to introduce further crackdowns on human/labour rights



  7. Vice-President of the EPO Under Investigation: Treason, Abuse, Violations, Giving and Receiving Bribes

    An English translation of documents involving the Organised Crime Section of the Criminal Police Department in Zagreb, where the Vice-President of the EPO faces criminal charges



  8. EPO Management Warns People About Scams When the EPO's Management is Itself Falling for Scams

    Jesper Kongstad, the Chairman of the Administrative Council of the European Patent Organisation, helps demonstrate that not even the EPO is intelligent enough to spot an obvious scam



  9. Links 28/5/2016: Wine 1.9.11, New Gentoo

    Links for the day



  10. Links 27/5/2016: Android for Raspberry Pi, Google Beats Oracle in Court

    Links for the day



  11. Warning: EPO Surveillance May Have Just Gotten Even More Intrusive

    BlueCoat, which the EPO uses to enable oppression inside its European premises, has just gotten even nastier and staff may be at risk



  12. Victim Card Ends up in Another Blunder for Battistelli and His Six Bodyguards

    Battistelli is wrecking what's left of the EPO's reputation (after decades it took the Office to earn it) as the media continues to scrutinise his appalling regime



  13. Italian Report About EPO Now Available in English

    An English translation of a TV program which earlier this month documented some of the glaring problems at the EPO



  14. The EPO is Doing Great, Says EPO-Connected 'News' Site

    IAM 'magazine', a longtime ally of the EPO, gives people the impression that all is fine and dandy at the EPO even though that's clearly not the case



  15. Microsoft Has Killed Nokia (and Its Own Mobile Ambitions), But Watch What it Does With Patents

    Microsoft announces many more layoffs, having already caused tremendous damage to the Finnish economy, and patents are left astray for Microsoft's favourite patent trolls to pick



  16. EPO Management Under Growing Stress From Croatian Law Enforcement Authorities, German Politicians, Italian Media

    Things are not as rosy as the relative calm may suggest, and in the coming weeks we expect some major events other than the protest at all EPO sites across Europe



  17. Microsoft, a Dead Company Walking, Resorts to Malware Tactics, Now Truly Indistinguishable From Crackers

    Microsoft is essentially taking over people's PCs and installing on them a large piece of malware, complete with keyloggers, against the will of these PCs' owners



  18. Links 26/5/2016: CentOS Linux 6.8, Ansible 2.1

    Links for the day



  19. The Latest EPO Victim Card (Played by Željko Topić) Should be Treated as Seriously as Those Bogus Claims of Violence by a Judge (Updatedx3)

    In its desperate pursuit of a narrative wherein the staff of the EPO is violent and aggressive the management of the EPO, renowned for institutional aggression, finds (or claims to have found) a little tampering with a bicycle



  20. Links 25/5/2016: Nginx 1.11, F1 2015 Coming to GNU/Linux Tomorrow

    Links for the day



  21. The Media Starts Informing the European Public About the Downsides of UPC While EPO Accelerates Its Lobbying for Ratification

    The EPO's shameless UPC promotion takes another step forward as the European press outlets (even television channels) begin to explore the secret deal that's negotiated by patent lawyers (with corporate clients) and patent offices, not the public or any public interest groups



  22. Some Details About How the EPO's President is Rumoured to be 'Buying' Votes and Why It's Grounds/Basis for “Immediate Dismissal”

    Some background information and a detailed explanation of the systemic financial dependency, created by Battistelli at the cost of €13 million or more, which prevents effective oversight of Battistelli



  23. How the Patent Lawyers' Microcosm Continues to Boost Software Patents Filth by Misdirecting Readers, Relying on Highly Selective Coverage

    Under the guise of reporting/analysis/advice the community of patent lawyers is effectively lobbying to make software patents popular and widely-accepted again, based on one single case which they wish to make 'the' precedent



  24. Documents Show Zagreb Police Department in Investigation of Vice-President of the European Patent Office

    Željko Topić's troubles in Croatia, where he faces many criminal charges, may soon become an extraordinary burden for the EPO, which distances itself from it all mostly by attacking staff that 'dares' to bring up the subject



  25. [ES] Interrumpiendo la Propagánda Distractante de Battistelli: los Empleados de la EPO Protestará de Nuevo en una Quincena

    La exágerada extravagancia (desperdicio de dinero) en la Ceremonia de Premiación al Inventor Europeo de la EPO tendrá que competir por atención de los medios con miles de empleados de la EPO (en todaslas sedes de la EPO) marchándo en las calles para protestar por los abusos de la EPO



  26. Windows and Microsoft's Other 'Burning Platforms'

    It's not just Windows for phones that's reaching minuscule market share levels but also Windows, but Microsoft is skilled at hiding this (cannibalising Windows using something people do not even want, then counting that cannibal, Vista 10)



  27. Links 24/5/2016: CRYENGINE Source Code is Out on GitHub, Jono Bacon Leaves GitHub

    Links for the day



  28. Links 23/5/2016: GNOME 3.22, Calculate Linux 15.17

    Links for the day



  29. 'Celebrity' Patent Trolls and the Elusive Battle Against Patent Trolls (or Eastern District of Texas Courts) Rather Than Software Patents

    Some of last week's more important reports, which serve to demonstrate how the system is attempting to tackle a side-effect of software patents rather than the patents themselves (their irrational scope)



  30. The Circus of Patent 'Reporting' (by Omission) on the Subject of Software Patents in the US and USPTO Bias

    look at some of the latest oddities in the US patent system and much of the reporting about software patenting (more or less monopolised by those who profit from it, not harmed by it)


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts