EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

11.19.09

Can’t Trust Microsoft with Code, So Why is Fedora 12 Mono and Winforms Dependent?

Posted in ECMA, GNOME, GNU/Linux, Kernel, Microsoft, Novell, Patents, Red Hat at 6:57 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Bug eyes

Summary: Fedora 12 includes Microsoft/Novell software that falls outside the ECMA standard, despite the fact that such code is problematic

MICROSOFT APOLOGISM is a subject that we wrote about yesterday and will revisit later today. Regarding Matt Asay’s “Apache: ‘No jerks allowed’,” a reader tells us: “Matt seems to have a self-contradictory summary. Which is it? Microsoft is part of Apache or no jerks allowed in Apache?

As a reminder about Microsoft and Apache, see [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18].

The tail bit of the article seems to neglect the Apache perspective. It is, or at least was, about the Apache Foundation and its projects. What about the quality of Apache? What about the sustainability of Apache? Those are important.

“Microsoft’s Novell’s Greg Kroah-Hartman works with the Linux kernel and got caught with his mouth open. Microsoft did a hit and run on him, with his own help.”
      –Anonymous
To look to another project, the Linux kernel, we see what can go wrong if a project lets naive people let jerks walk all over them. Microsoft’s Novell’s Greg Kroah-Hartman works with the Linux kernel and got caught with his mouth open.

“Microsoft did a hit and run on him,” argues our reader, “with his own help.” We wrote about this right here.

Our anonymous reader concludes as follows: “The assertion that code should matter, if taken at face value, should also then take into consideration the history of coding and engineering quality coming out of Redmond. Or should it? Maybe there is only One Microsoft Way for all projects and code quality should be a thing of the past.

The bottom line is that Microsoft code cannot be trusted because it only serves Microsoft shareholders, to whom GNU/Linux and Free software are not acceptable, as they are antithetical. Red Hat is making a mistake right now because it follows the footsteps of OpenSUSE 11.2 by becoming dependent on Winforms. As the following new post emphasises:

The Fedora 12 Constantine GNOME Live CD is Mono free, but installing GNOME from the DVD pulls in not only Mono itself, but also support for Windows.Forms (mono-winforms), which is outside the ECMA standard (and not covered under Microsoft’s horribly inadequate Community Promise).

While Constantine no longer includes Tomboy, it does still include F-Spot which is a .NET application.

Mono was removed from the Live CD of Cambridge, but is it not time to apply the same policy to a full install? F-Spot can be replaced by Solang, for example.

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

14 Comments

  1. Needs Sunlight said,

    November 19, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Gravatar

    Microsoft code does not serve Microsoft share holders. Microsoft code servers Microsoft’s management, who follow the industry practice of blaming the share holders.

    Shareholder meetings are orchestrated by the board and the company. Agendas are sculpted to achieve a desired outcome and procedures choreographed to ensure that everyone toes the line. After a short session of deafening music to stun them, the mob is exposed to a three ring circus of buzzword salad presentations until powerpoint poisoning brings even the strongest of them into a right proper state of tonic immobility in time for the vote.

    Granted anyone dumb enough or fanatical enough, outside of M$, to own M$ stock already has a few screws loose. But don’t blame these gobshites entirely for M$ management.

    In theory a board of directors could shape up a company, but that would require a lot of time money and effort to get a near unanimous majority working towards that goal. Look at how much damage three microsofters, about 15%, were able to do to Yahoo’s large board.

  2. Needs Sunlight said,

    November 19, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Gravatar

    … Look at how much damage three microsofters, about 15%, were able to do to Yahoo’s large board. It’s much easier to tear down than build up, so clearing house at Microsoft via the board would have to have a way for the cleaners to gain far more than 85%.

    Even if you could gain the board and clear the management? Where will they end up? Where ever it is, they’ll bring their One Microsoft Way with them.

    Even if you could gain the board and clear the management, there would still be the issue of the Microsoft employees. it’s a self-selecting lot. Anyone with any technical skills or knowledge steers clear of M$. Anyone with any ethics steers clear of M$. So what you have is an enormous steaming herd of individuals that would be best off far away from any technology.

    Look what happened to Red Hat which has now added Windows-like features to Fedora 12:
    https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=534047

    What place can society find for these Microsofters where they can contribute instead of harm? Can they be divested from their ideology and become assets or is a neutral, inert lump the best we can hope for from that lot.

    finalzone Reply:

    “Look what happened to Red Hat which has now added Windows-like features to Fedora 12:
    https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=534047

    From what I understand, it is a policy rules from PackageKit for a single user that can be modifed through polkit command (unfortunately, frontend Authorization is no longer available and has to be done on terminal). The arguments are about multiple unprivileged users scenarii where that policy should be modified in that consequence.

    What I think triggered those multiple comments are the lack of clarification related to that policy on release note.

    finalzone Reply:

    Here is a clarification about policy:
    http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/sect-Release_Notes-Security.html

    Hope it helps.

    finalzone Reply:

    Testing the scenario from Fedora 12 laptop. As single user, I can only install signed package from official repository but needs to use root password for unsigned packages especially third-party. It looks like Microsoft Windows behavior but it is not because Policykit ability to fine-graining rules. Remote user are not allowed to install, remove package by default.

  3. your_friend said,

    November 19, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Gravatar

    Is it true that Ubuntu is replacing Gimp with Fspot? Unbelievably stupid reasons of saved space and ease of use have been trotted out as excuses to eliminate one of the most successful free software projects from the CD and default install. More space is saved by eliminating mono and there are plenty of simple photo editors that don’t depend on mono. It is a good idea to have two photo editors just as it is a good idea to have four or five text editors. Each has a strength and can be called when appropriate. As a person who does not edit photos often, I only use GIMP. A simple application to remove red eyes, like digikam has, is nice but I generally don’t bother. The inclusion of mono was stupid, the removal of Gimp is too stupid to believe. Someone tell me it’s not so.

    Needs Sunlight Reply:

    Using F-Spot wastes space. Blaming gimp is just a way of kicking the ant-hill. Digikam and Solang are nice.

    Microsoft marketers have almost as good a mastery of the Big Lie as the press team for the Great Prevaricator, Ronald Reagan.

    Mark and Jono need to clean house before it is all over for Canonical.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Disk space is hardly the problem of course. Mono puts Microsoft in control.

  4. finalzone said,

    November 19, 2009 at 1:44 pm

    Gravatar

    The title is incorrect because DVD version of Fedora 12 has ability to customize installation from the beginning. You can simply disable F-Spot or any mono based packages by choosing “Customize Now” option. That is way better than not having to choice.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    What I wonder is, why is there so much focus on comparing it to another operating system? This behaviour is worth treating as what it is, unless the one responsible was hired from Microsoft or something.

    finalzone Reply:

    Because Fedora has more new technologies that are/will be adopted by other distributions. I think nobody did not bother to remove F-Spot as default because most users will choose to customize their Fedora system during installation.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    In IRC today we got:

    <Kevin_Kofler> At the point where some of the Fedora GNOME users complained about no F-Spot on the live images, I actually made a serious proposal to ship Digikam on the GNOME spin. ;-) I even offered to help making it use QGtkStyle when running under GNOME and this kind of stuff. They rejected it anyway. ;-)

  5. finalzone said,

    November 19, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    Gravatar

    Hard to please some people these days. At least solang is available on repository.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    McDonald’s has salad on the menu, too. :-)

What Else is New


  1. US Supreme Court (SCOTUS) Keeps Introducing Changes to Patent Law and Patent Policy Under the Trump Administration Still Looks OK

    Judging by what we are seeing so far this year, the US patent system won't be going back into the sordid mess it once was, thanks in part to the Justices of the US Supreme Court and the America Invents Act, signed into law over half a decade ago



  2. Leaked: Team Battistelli, Exploiting a Controversial Decision From the Netherlands, is Trying to Squash SUEPO

    The latest leak suggests that Battistelli not only celebrates immunity from the law but also uses that to take further steps against the Staff Union of the EPO (SUEPO)



  3. Dr. Ingve Björn Stjerna: UPC's “Entry Into Force is Not at all Secured,” Contrary to What Team UPC Says

    The ludicrous notion that the UPC is inevitable and just a matter of time is challenged by longtime UPC observers, including Dr. Ingve Björn Stjerna, who wrote an entire book on the subject



  4. Media Blasts EPO Over Immunity Amid Suicides, Battistelli's Behaviour Compared to Dominique Strauss-Kahn's

    Backlash in the Netherlands is growing again, primarily as a result of media reports about the EPO's abuses against basic rights and the government's reluctance to put an end to these abuses



  5. Hilarious: Battistelli Goes to Former French Colony With No Patents to 'Buy' the EPO a Perception of Legitimacy

    Having toured various banana republics in pursuit of easy-to-sign deals, Battistelli now goes to Cambodia again, in order to make it seem as though the EPO is conquering Asia



  6. Patent Trolls Like Finjan Holdings and Thomas Edison; the Latest Loss for Software Patents in the US and Their Move to China

    A look at the very latest patent news, which suggests further improvements in the US, pushback from the patent microcosm, and an outsourcing of a terrible system to Chinese territories, where the overpatenting plague grows rapidly



  7. Still Waiting for Official Confirmation That Michelle Lee Will Head the Patent Office Under Donald Trump's Administration

    As of today, there is still no official word on whether or not Lee continues her tenure, which saw the demise of patents on software and along with that the demise of patent trolls and frivolous litigation



  8. Links 23/1/2017: Wine Releases, Microsoft Layoffs

    Links for the day



  9. 'Reform' at the EPO Means Destroying the Staff Union, Crushing Patent Examiners, and Imposing on Europe a System It Does Not Want (UPC)

    The chaotic transition at the EPO -- a transition from something which has been workable to something intolerable -- and the role of the Unitary Patent (UPC), which lurks in the shadows and threatens to harm the whole of Europe



  10. Shakeup Against Patent Parasites in the US and More Rumours/Speculations About USPTO Director Michelle Lee After Trump's Inauguration

    The US patent system is becoming ever more hostile towards patent trolls, owing in part to reforms introduced under Michelle Lee's tenure, but people are still not certain that she will maintain her job and continue to fix the system



  11. EPO Abuses Now Make the Netherlands Look Like a Facilitator of Human/Labour Rights Abuses

    Rather than crack down on human rights abuses, the Dutch government now sends out the signal that it's an island for those wish to violate human rights whilst enjoying immunity (EPO)



  12. Links 20/1/2017: Docker 1.13, Linux 4.4.44 LTS

    Links for the day



  13. “Federal Circuit Had Affirmed on Every Issue in 77.4% of the Patent Trial and Appeal Board Appeals it Had Seen” in 2016

    The Federal Circuit (CAFC) and Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB) continue to squash a lot of patents on software, in contrast to that fake news from patent maximalists



  14. Kudelski Group Not Only Acts Like a Patent Troll But Also Run by Intellectual Ventures Person; Mobile Market in Dire State of Patent Armageddon

    The patent thicket which pervades everything that is used by billions of people, mobile technology in particular, can be traced back to a lot of non-practicing parasites (or patent trolls)



  15. Watchtroll and His Swamp Still Blame Google (Where Michelle Lee Came From) for Improving and Gradually Fixing Aspects of the US Patent System

    Shooting the messengers (even wrongly associating yours truly with Google) in an effort to undermine patent reform when it is so desperately needed due to serious injustices



  16. In an Age of Necessary Patent Reform and Permanent Uncertainty for Software Patents the Patent Microcosm Looks for Workarounds and Spin

    Commentary on the status quo in the Michelle Lee era and some examples of bias from the patent microcosm, as well as news regarding the NFL getting sued by the Kudelski Group



  17. Michelle Lee, USPTO Director, Should Recognise That the Patent Microcosm is Her Enemy Which Hates Her

    The latest outburst from the patent microcosm, which has a temper issue and notorious disdain for judges it does not agree with, is more of what we have come to expect



  18. Battistelli is an Autocrat Above the Law and It's OK, Holland's High Council Says

    Battistelli's autocratic tendencies will not be challenged by Dutch authorities, in spite of sheer condemnation from many groups all across Europe and the entire world



  19. Beware Fake News About the Unitary Patent (UPC)

    The UPC is dead, deadlocked, stuck, in a limbo and so on; those who claim otherwise are merely lobbying (in disguise of "analysis" or "news")



  20. Shame on MapR for Pursuing Software Patents While Pretending to Stand for Free/Open Source Software

    The patents gold rush sees another company joining the 'fun', albeit this company should campaign hard against software patents rather than pursue any



  21. Doomsday Scenario in the Back Mirror as Michelle Lee Keeps Her Job (and Much-Needed Patent Reform) at the USPTO

    The future of patent reform, i.e. tackling overpatenting and patent trolls, looks somewhat more promising with today's confirmation of Lee's 'extended tenure' at the Office



  22. Links 19/1/2017: PulseAudio 10.0, Linux 4.9 Longterm Kernel

    Links for the day



  23. Corporate (Wall Street) Media Agrees That Brexit Dooms the Unitary Patent (UPC)

    The nonstop lies or the fake news about the UPC starting "real soon now" don't quite pass a reality check or a basic assessment based on fundamental concepts, such as the UPC's facilitation of subordination (to Europe) in the United Kingdom



  24. Farce of an 'Independence' for the Boards of Appeal as Another Ally of Benoît Battistelli Enters as Parasite Inside the 'Overseer'/Host

    The latest cluster of lies from the President of the European Patent Office (EPO) and direct refutation of false claims of independence for the Boards of Appeal, where the former Vice-Presidents can flock, just like the Mini Minion (Minnoye) of Battistelli



  25. Links 18/1/2017: Red Hat's OpenShift 3.4, Mozilla's New Logo/Branding

    Links for the day



  26. Union-Busting Action by Team Battistelli Takes Heavy Toll, Techrights Will Continue to Expose EPO Injustices to the World

    The Staff Union of the European Patent Office, SUEPO, which faced unprecedented and probably illegal (based on local laws) attacks, is being weakened by the worst President ever, whose own management team seems to be collapsing along with the institution he is destroying in just a few years



  27. A Lot More Fake News About the UPC, Trying to Convince People That the UK is Ratifying (It's Not, It Cannot)

    Response to some of the latest misleading (self-serving) whispers about the fate of the Unified Patent Court (UPC), which is in a deadlock due to Brexit



  28. Rumours Suggest That EPO Management is Aware of Decline in Patent Quality and is Thus Actively Lying About it to the Media/Public

    Whenever Battistelli brags about patent quality he may be consciously and deliberately lying through his teeth if the latest rumours are correct



  29. Links 17/1/2017: GIMP Plans, New Raspberry Pi Product

    Links for the day



  30. Resumption of EPO Propaganda ('Meet the President') Officially Starts Tomorrow

    Yet another one of these foolish 'Meet the President' stunts, scheduled to take place tomorrow morning


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts