| _Hicham_ | MS Office sucks with its own format | May 08 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| oiaohm | Exactly _Hicham_ attacking MS the other way you can have a field day. | May 08 00:00 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why I am saying isolation | May 08 00:00 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft can do much | May 08 00:00 |
| _Hicham_ | they don't have to do so | May 08 00:01 |
| oiaohm | Just the change in mind set that they must support ODF correctly allows you to attack them better. | May 08 00:01 |
| bgtr4 | did you guys see dr. house series | May 08 00:01 |
| _Hicham_ | the drain to free Open Source software won't stop | May 08 00:01 |
| oiaohm | ODF becomes a simple to demo failure _Hicham_ | May 08 00:01 |
| bgtr4 | machines already understand yes/no answer | May 08 00:01 |
| _Hicham_ | supporting ODF is embracing | May 08 00:02 |
| _Hicham_ | but they can't afford to embrace | May 08 00:02 |
| oiaohm | Currently they are trying to embrace. | May 08 00:02 |
| _Hicham_ | because they lack money to | May 08 00:02 |
| _Hicham_ | embracing costs a lot | May 08 00:02 |
| _Hicham_ | Oracle got OpenOffice | May 08 00:02 |
| oiaohm | By making them support it correctly it costs a lot. | May 08 00:02 |
| _Hicham_ | so u can't predict how far this Office suite will go | May 08 00:03 |
| oiaohm | By doing a half ass job MS gets to do it on the cheep. | May 08 00:03 |
| oiaohm | By not supporting it at all they get to do it on the really cheep. | May 08 00:03 |
| _Hicham_ | Oracle will try to kill Microst main market segments | May 08 00:03 |
| _Hicham_ | they can't do it cheap | May 08 00:03 |
| oiaohm | For sure there is no love lost between Oracle and Microsoft. | May 08 00:03 |
| _Hicham_ | they are afraid of leaking the source code | May 08 00:04 |
| oiaohm | Oracle long time ago had its database play up due to Microsoft alerting things. | May 08 00:04 |
| bgtr4 | oh it's from another channel | May 08 00:04 |
| _Hicham_ | Oracle will revenge | May 08 00:04 |
| oiaohm | That were latter documented as intentional. | May 08 00:04 |
| _Hicham_ | as they have Java now | May 08 00:04 |
| oiaohm | So causing Oracle to join the Linux Foundation. | May 08 00:04 |
| _Hicham_ | Oracle will help killing Microsoft | May 08 00:05 |
| oiaohm | There is no question about that. | May 08 00:05 |
| _Hicham_ | does Windows run on ARM processors? | May 08 00:05 |
| bgtr4 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40L3SGmcPDQ&feature=related | May 08 00:05 |
| oiaohm | Windows CE does Reactos does but no applications. | May 08 00:05 |
| oiaohm | And MS spot OS does. | May 08 00:05 |
| _Hicham_ | did u try ReactOS? | May 08 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Its getting there slowly. | May 08 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Big thing is that ReactOS runs in only 24 megs for ram. | May 08 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Kinda shows how bloated windows is. | May 08 00:07 |
| Balrog_ | ReactOS is very quirky | May 08 00:07 |
| Balrog_ | crashes all the time | May 08 00:07 |
| oiaohm | crashes are getting less. | May 08 00:07 |
| _Hicham_ | Balrog_ : it is still pre-release | May 08 00:07 |
| oiaohm | Alpha _Hicham_ | May 08 00:07 |
| oiaohm | Its not to prerelease yet. | May 08 00:08 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: I tried the installer image they have online | May 08 00:08 |
| Balrog_ | another thing ... patents a problem? | May 08 00:08 |
| Balrog_ | or not? | May 08 00:08 |
| _Hicham_ | ok alpha, still not suitable for production | May 08 00:08 |
| oiaohm | Reactos home base is russia. | May 08 00:08 |
| oiaohm | Software patents don't apply there. | May 08 00:08 |
| _Hicham_ | they use free code from wine project | May 08 00:09 |
| oiaohm | Userspace .dll's yes _Hicham_ | May 08 00:09 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a great code to learn windows internal | May 08 00:09 |
| _Hicham_ | I know, since MSVC works there | May 08 00:09 |
| oiaohm | Using reactos soruce code to learn windows internals is better than using MS source code. | May 08 00:10 |
| oiaohm | MS source code puts all kinds of restrictions on you. | May 08 00:10 |
| oiaohm | That is the big problem I have when people say Linux is less secure because it Open Source. | May 08 00:11 |
| oiaohm | Do they think for one min that you cannot get your hands on the Windows source code fairly simply. | May 08 00:11 |
| _Hicham_ | Source code is not necessary | May 08 00:12 |
| _Hicham_ | buffer overflow vulnerabilities do not need source code | May 08 00:12 |
| oiaohm | More complex flaws source code is useful. | May 08 00:12 |
| _Hicham_ | plus, assembler code is not that hard to understand | May 08 00:12 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : for assessment | May 08 00:13 |
| _Hicham_ | not for attacks | May 08 00:13 |
| oiaohm | You sign up for the right UNI courses and you can get your hands on the full source code. | May 08 00:13 |
| _Hicham_ | to attack, you don't really need source code | May 08 00:13 |
| oiaohm | So you can run assessments to produce more zero day attackes. | May 08 00:13 |
| _Hicham_ | Open Source mean community research | May 08 00:14 |
| oiaohm | MS is no more safe than Linux. | May 08 00:14 |
| oiaohm | Both source codes can be researched. | May 08 00:14 |
| _Hicham_ | closed source means small team development | May 08 00:14 |
| oiaohm | What makes Windows closed source. | May 08 00:14 |
| oiaohm | its not. | May 08 00:14 |
| _Hicham_ | MS source code is a real mess | May 08 00:14 |
| oiaohm | Its restricted source. | May 08 00:14 |
| _Hicham_ | exactly | May 08 00:15 |
| oiaohm | Meaning a lot of people can get the hands on the source code. | May 08 00:15 |
| _Hicham_ | you can get the source code under Microsoft Shared Code License thing | May 08 00:15 |
| oiaohm | But touching the source code means you agree not to compete with MS. | May 08 00:15 |
| _Hicham_ | exactly | May 08 00:15 |
| _Hicham_ | just for development purposes | May 08 00:15 |
| oiaohm | Does an attacker care about competing with MS. | May 08 00:16 |
| oiaohm | Nop | May 08 00:16 |
| oiaohm | So they can happly take the MS source code. | May 08 00:16 |
| _Hicham_ | MS is just fucking people | May 08 00:17 |
| oiaohm | So in real world there is no difference between Linux and Windows based on source code avaiblity. | May 08 00:17 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: thanks for telling me | May 08 00:17 |
| Balrog_ | is the 'Windows Internals' book ok? | May 08 00:17 |
| _Hicham_ | they used dirty methods to spread their operating system | May 08 00:17 |
| Balrog_ | (that reactos code is ok for studying windows) | May 08 00:17 |
| Balrog_ | windows internals * | May 08 00:17 |
| oiaohm | Windows Internals book is the same cat as reversing. | May 08 00:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Windows Internals is just exposing its public API | May 08 00:18 |
| oiaohm | In clean room reversing. | May 08 00:18 |
| oiaohm | One person writes the documentation how functions should work ie Windows Internals. | May 08 00:18 |
| oiaohm | Another person writes the code. | May 08 00:18 |
| oiaohm | 100 percent legally clean. | May 08 00:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Windows have to be quarantined | May 08 00:20 |
| oiaohm | Reactos code has not made you agree to a nasty licence Balrog_ | May 08 00:20 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a fucking crazy idea to use a restricted OS | May 08 00:20 |
| oiaohm | Where the true windows code does. | May 08 00:20 |
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| oiaohm | Note studing reactos source code does not say its all 100 percent legally safe to copy. Due to patents and other things Balrog_ | May 08 00:22 |
| oiaohm | And that is true of all OS source codes out there. | May 08 00:23 |
| Balrog_ | yes. | May 08 00:24 |
| Balrog_ | one of the courses I have to take goes over some windows internals stuff | May 08 00:24 |
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| oiaohm | Reactos has basically grown out of people doing windows internals courses. | May 08 00:26 |
| oiaohm | How better to understand it than be able to see it work. | May 08 00:26 |
| Balrog | heh. I see. | May 08 00:26 |
| DaemonFC | ReactOS is an effort, 14 years in the making, to port 300,000 viruses and spyware programs to a free software operating system | May 08 00:27 |
| DaemonFC | hope this helps :) | May 08 00:27 |
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| Balrog | that's the other thing...WHY reimplement badly engineered code? | May 08 00:28 |
| Balrog | or APIs | May 08 00:28 |
| DaemonFC | that is an interesting thought though | May 08 00:28 |
| DaemonFC | How many Windows viruses would be binary compatible? | May 08 00:28 |
| Balrog | if the code is properly written, few to none | May 08 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | obviously some of the stuff in Windows would never be reimplemented | May 08 00:29 |
| Balrog | yes. | May 08 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | I don't see them in a rush to support Microsoft Agent for example | May 08 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | or a direct clone of Internet Explorer | May 08 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | but some viruses would undoubtedly run | May 08 00:29 |
| oiaohm | Viruses already run in wine. | May 08 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | not really | May 08 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | they had a thing where they tried that | May 08 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | but none of them really worked | May 08 00:30 |
| oiaohm | Worst case 200 were running in one machine. | May 08 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | just made a mess | May 08 00:30 |
| oiaohm | Out of the numbers of windows viruses out there that is not many. | May 08 00:30 |
| oiaohm | Some do truely work DaemonFC just not large numbers yet. | May 08 00:31 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately, thanks to the BIOS, Windows is STILL vulnerable to some ancient boot sector viruses | May 08 00:31 |
| oiaohm | So is Linux. | May 08 00:31 |
| oiaohm | boot sector viruses are one thing that just does not want to die. | May 08 00:31 |
| DaemonFC | some Vista systems in Europe were infected with a 14 year old boot sector virus meant for DOS | May 08 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | if that tells you anything | May 08 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/17/vista_hit_by_stoned_angelina/ | May 08 00:34 |
| oiaohm | I have found a Linux systems boot sector infected. | May 08 00:34 |
| DaemonFC | 13 years old at the time I guess | May 08 00:34 |
| DaemonFC | 15 now | May 08 00:34 |
| oiaohm | I still turn up the PC is now stoned virus now and again. | May 08 00:34 |
| oiaohm | Yes one of the first boot sector viruses ever made. | May 08 00:35 |
| oiaohm | And its still floating around. | May 08 00:35 |
| Balrog | DaemonFC: heh ... Aldi ... there are some of those stores around here | May 08 00:36 |
| Balrog | and they do sell Medion systems | May 08 00:36 |
| DaemonFC | i've seen those here | May 08 00:36 |
| DaemonFC | last batch I saw had XP though | May 08 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Aldi sells lot of over supplies Balrog | May 08 00:38 |
| oiaohm | So they have them sometimes. | May 08 00:38 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: I've been to the stores | May 08 00:38 |
| Balrog | there's one around here | May 08 00:38 |
| oiaohm | The one hammer drill Aldi gets in from time to time is great. | May 08 00:42 |
| oiaohm | Nice thing I have for getting cables threw walls. | May 08 00:43 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: good video | May 08 01:07 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft is replacing OneCare | May 08 01:07 |
| DaemonFC | in favor of some kind of freeware antivirus | May 08 01:07 |
| schestowitz | OneCare should replace Microsoft | May 08 01:08 |
| schestowitz | "install linux?" | May 08 01:08 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/mah/free-microsoft-morro-will-shift-2009-antivirus-market/?cs=16427 | May 08 01:08 |
| DaemonFC | "However, even though current antivirus solutions on the market work, just about all of them are bloated and result in Windows running slower after installing them. In addition, have you noticed that competition never did appear to do much on their pricing, either?" | May 08 01:09 |
| DaemonFC | at least they got that part about right | May 08 01:09 |
| DaemonFC | it's interesting to see Microsoft breaking up the antivirus "protection racket" at least | May 08 01:12 |
| Balrog | what do you think of this new eglibc? | May 08 01:13 |
| Balrog | (fork) | May 08 01:14 |
| schestowitz | Hhee. | May 08 01:16 |
| oiaohm | eglibc started off fixing problems. | May 08 01:17 |
| schestowitz | "I'm a Mac Person, it might now work" | May 08 01:17 |
| oiaohm | For embed usage Balrog | May 08 01:17 |
| schestowitz | People don't like connecting stuff to their body if it runs Windows... | May 08 01:17 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40L3SGmcPDQ&feature=related | May 08 01:17 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: I hear Debian is moving to it not only for embedded | May 08 01:17 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully glibc lifts there game with some compeition or dies. | May 08 01:17 |
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| Balrog | what about Drepper? | May 08 01:18 |
| oiaohm | Debian has been back porting patches into glibc | May 08 01:18 |
| oiaohm | Due to defects not getting fixed in releases. | May 08 01:18 |
| DaemonFC | "Our concern is that many consumers no longer have a degree of concern around security that leads them to keep their consumer security protection up-to-date." Microsoft estimates that in the United States, 60 percent of consumers "either don't or won't pay for anti-malware protection." | May 08 01:19 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 08 01:19 |
| oiaohm | Forks are required in the open source world from time to time to create growth. | May 08 01:19 |
| oiaohm | Exactly why pay for anti-virus protection when there are a lot of free ones out there that work just as good. | May 08 01:20 |
| Balrog | I see. :/ | May 08 01:21 |
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| oiaohm | everyone forgets the egc's complier fork of gcc that merged back in time. Causes gcc to grow a bit in that time. | May 08 01:22 |
| oiaohm | llvm also a fork of gcc putting competition on gcc so expanding grouth of both projects. | May 08 01:23 |
| oiaohm | Open Source only works well when there is competition. | May 08 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the free ones tend to work better | May 08 01:24 |
| yuhong | BTW, anyone can download Windows 7 RC and try it for yourself. | May 08 01:24 |
| yuhong | In fact, that is what I did. | May 08 01:24 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7 does not work well | May 08 01:24 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: seems like an advert | May 08 01:25 |
| schestowitz | For just very basic signal readinh | May 08 01:25 |
| schestowitz | *reading | May 08 01:25 |
| yuhong | I downloaded the beta of Windows 7 and installed it to a VM using MS Virtual PC. | May 08 01:26 |
| DaemonFC | They failed to correct the biggest problems in Vista | May 08 01:28 |
| DaemonFC | like maybe paring down the 1000 options in the control panel | May 08 01:28 |
| DaemonFC | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/02/contropanel.jpg | May 08 01:28 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgAEeisfHW8&NR=1 | May 08 01:29 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 08 01:29 | |
| yuhong | schestowitz: Funny video! | May 08 01:30 |
| yuhong | BTW, now that all music in iTunes is DRM-free, what do you think about SJ's open letter about *music* DRM in retrospect? | May 08 01:31 |
| yuhong | oiaohm: On the matter of LLVM, Apple is one vendor that is switching to it. | May 08 01:32 |
| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_r600_700_guide&num=1 ATI users should be happy soon. | May 08 01:33 |
| oiaohm | DRM is always a risk to data loss. | May 08 01:34 |
| yuhong | Yep. | May 08 01:34 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: theora may be becoming superior to h.264: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/07/2352203&art_pos=1 | May 08 01:35 |
| yuhong | Personally, I think the idea of controlling copying of things that are inherently copyable is a fundamentally flawed idea. | May 08 01:35 |
| oiaohm | Its when DRM system dies. | May 08 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Were the probelm with DRM comes in. | May 08 01:36 |
| oiaohm | No lessions were learnt from dongles. | May 08 01:36 |
| Balrog | yuhong: I think media companies have a lot to play in DRM schemes | May 08 01:36 |
| Balrog | while music is DRM-free, hopefully video will be next | May 08 01:37 |
| oiaohm | DRM predates media compaines | May 08 01:37 |
| oiaohm | Dongles with cad software was the first majorally used form. | May 08 01:37 |
| oiaohm | And it had major problems. | May 08 01:37 |
| Balrog | software drm is a bit more troublesome though. | May 08 01:37 |
| Balrog | I feel dongles are draconian though | May 08 01:38 |
| oiaohm | They are both draconian | May 08 01:38 |
| oiaohm | With the same defect. | May 08 01:38 |
| oiaohm | What do you do when the DRM system breaks. | May 08 01:38 |
| yuhong | And the same fundamental flaws. | May 08 01:38 |
| oiaohm | Basically humans are idiots. | May 08 01:39 |
| yuhong | It has a lot to do with economics. | May 08 01:39 |
| oiaohm | Outcome of DRM was predictable. | May 08 01:39 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: that's why there has to be an easy way to override drm | May 08 01:39 |
| oiaohm | Watermarking the music with people personal information is quite effective. | May 08 01:39 |
| DaemonFC | don't they just add it to the tag? | May 08 01:40 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: watermarking in which way? | May 08 01:40 |
| yuhong | http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=34709834&m=718000638931 | May 08 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | that's easily stripped out | May 08 01:40 |
| Balrog | The way Apple is doing it is rather easy to remove | May 08 01:40 |
| Balrog | yes, it's just hidden tags | May 08 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Embed in the audio stream. | May 08 01:40 |
| yuhong | Watermarking is far less intrusive than DRM. | May 08 01:40 |
| oiaohm | As minor interference. | May 08 01:40 |
| yuhong | http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/34709834/m/166006777931?r=669007777931 | May 08 01:40 |
| Balrog | embedding watermarks in the audio stream is more intrusive than DRM because you hear it. | May 08 01:41 |
| oiaohm | The damage is less than mp3 compression. | May 08 01:41 |
| Balrog | studies indicated that people can hear it | May 08 01:42 |
| DaemonFC | Vista is crackable cause they had to build workarounds for OEMs that can't be bothered to activate billions of PCs | May 08 01:42 |
| DaemonFC | DRM on music won't work cause they still have to sell CDs | May 08 01:42 |
| yuhong | These are the threads I posted on Ars regarding the fundamental flaws of DRM. | May 08 01:42 |
| DaemonFC | they tried to infect CDs and had a customer revolt | May 08 01:42 |
| Balrog | I can tell that lossless music sounds better than mp3/aac | May 08 01:42 |
| oiaohm | studies indicated that people could pick it up if they had the source and the altered. | May 08 01:42 |
| yuhong | Yep, I know about the Sony DMG disaster. | May 08 01:42 |
| DaemonFC | The *ONLY* DRM that can work is so called cloud computing | May 08 01:43 |
| Balrog | heh. blocking autorun would take care of that part | May 08 01:43 |
| oiaohm | But lot of cases they could not tell you what one was the altered. | May 08 01:43 |
| DaemonFC | they may never stop anyone from taking a copy of Windows | May 08 01:43 |
| Balrog | DaemonFC: how would cloud computing work on CDs? | May 08 01:43 |
| DaemonFC | but they can make so many services with an online subscription component that "piracy" no longer matters | May 08 01:43 |
| oiaohm | Only that they were minorally different. | May 08 01:43 |
| oiaohm | The hardest form them to detect was minor speed alterations. | May 08 01:43 |
| oiaohm | In the same class tapes would develop over time. | May 08 01:44 |
| yuhong | There is a lot of economics behind DRM. | May 08 01:44 |
| DaemonFC | what Windows is heading for is a "base system" you get, and to make it do anything, you have to have a "Passport" with those features linked to it | May 08 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Well done water marking uses styles of interferince we are use to. | May 08 01:44 |
| yuhong | I described some of it in the threads I linked above. | May 08 01:45 |
| yuhong | BTW, Windows Starter is not new, and neither are the restrictions associated with it. | May 08 01:45 |
| DaemonFC | they've been moving slowly from traditional OS | May 08 01:46 |
| Balrog | yuhong: I'm fully aware of that | May 08 01:46 |
| DaemonFC | to one based on cloud services | May 08 01:46 |
| yuhong | Downgraded are not new either. | May 08 01:46 |
| oiaohm | Cloud computering risks being draconian to the extream. | May 08 01:46 |
| Balrog | though that won't work, because uninterruptible internet isn't everywhere yet, and probably never will be | May 08 01:46 |
| oiaohm | Either pay you subscrition or loss your data. | May 08 01:46 |
| yuhong | Even back in XP days, volume licensing customers could downgrade to 2000, NT 4.0, or 98. | May 08 01:46 |
| oiaohm | Only from XP pro yuhong | May 08 01:46 |
| oiaohm | That still applies to Vista Business and UP. | May 08 01:47 |
| DaemonFC | XP is getting to be too much of a pain in the ass to run on a modern system | May 08 01:47 |
| DaemonFC | it will sort itself out eventually | May 08 01:47 |
| yuhong | Vista and 7 IMO are not bad OSes. | May 08 01:47 |
| oiaohm | they are not great OS's either yuhong | May 08 01:47 |
| oiaohm | They are built for a age that never will come. | May 08 01:48 |
| DaemonFC | Well, you may as well just grab Vista Basic and tack onto it with hacks and third party software | May 08 01:48 |
| oiaohm | an age where computer would always containstally get bigger. | May 08 01:48 |
| DaemonFC | like you can enable Aero Glass, it's just not made clear how to do it | May 08 01:48 |
| oiaohm | netbooks has broken that. | May 08 01:48 |
| yuhong | BTW, on XP being obsolete, see http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000646.html. | May 08 01:48 |
| DaemonFC | my first impression with Vista was that it was just a slower, enormous version of XP | May 08 01:49 |
| DaemonFC | and that's still my impression | May 08 01:49 |
| yuhong | oiaohm: Yep, MS did not pay attention to netbooks when designing XP. | May 08 01:49 |
| yuhong | I mean VIsta. | May 08 01:49 |
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| DaemonFC | there's really only two things Vista has going for it, compositing and driver support | May 08 01:50 |
| yuhong | Of course, Vista is a lot more than just that. | May 08 01:50 |
| DaemonFC | well, most of Vista is just bloat | May 08 01:50 |
| DaemonFC | there's 7 different SKUs and none of them do precisely what you want | May 08 01:50 |
| yuhong | Some of it may be. | May 08 01:50 |
| yuhong | Anyway, MS is paying attension to netbooks with 7 | May 08 01:51 |
| oiaohm | Netbooks have been in the market for a long time. | May 08 01:51 |
| DaemonFC | the idea of an OS that's meant to serve "demographics" is jsut stupid | May 08 01:51 |
| oiaohm | Always on the edge. | May 08 01:51 |
| DaemonFC | they should start you with a base system and let you tack on whatever you need after the fact | May 08 01:51 |
| oiaohm | First netbooks appeard in the 1990~ | May 08 01:51 |
| DaemonFC | but why do that when they can bundle a dozen things you don't want | May 08 01:51 |
| DaemonFC | and make you buy them? | May 08 01:51 |
| yuhong | MS is already doing this with Server 2008. | May 08 01:52 |
| oiaohm | Asus when they built there netbook that took off they though it would be another that would sell under 1 million units. | May 08 01:52 |
| oiaohm | Still be profitable but not very much profit. | May 08 01:52 |
| oiaohm | Basically everyone was caught hopping with netbooks | May 08 01:52 |
| oiaohm | Including Asus. | May 08 01:53 |
| yuhong | Even providing a Server Core version. | May 08 01:53 |
| oiaohm | There complete inventory was gone in the first day. | May 08 01:53 |
| oiaohm | Linux has not attacked Windows Servers yet. | May 08 01:53 |
| oiaohm | That should start this year. | May 08 01:53 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft *could* strip Windows 7 down enough to run well on a netbook | May 08 01:53 |
| DaemonFC | will they? | May 08 01:54 |
| DaemonFC | who knows? | May 08 01:54 |
| DaemonFC | Throwing XP on them doesn't require any new effort | May 08 01:54 |
| DaemonFC | so I kind of think it will go on like this for a while | May 08 01:54 |
| oiaohm | Linux did attack MS server market in the 1998 as well with samba. ADS saved MS server market from destuction back then. | May 08 01:54 |
| yuhong | Yep. | May 08 01:55 |
| oiaohm | I currently cannot see what MS has this time to save themselves from destruction. | May 08 01:55 |
| yuhong | Samba 4 will recover by adding support for AD. | May 08 01:55 |
| oiaohm | Samba 3 | May 08 01:55 |
| oiaohm | Is getting AD support first. | May 08 01:55 |
| yuhong | Windows 7 is not even released yet. | May 08 01:55 |
| oiaohm | To be correct 3.4.0 samba has precuser support for AD. | May 08 01:56 |
| oiaohm | That will be fully release soon. | May 08 01:56 |
| oiaohm | http://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Franky << Yep project franky merge of Samba 3 and Samba 4 and that is in 3.4.0 | May 08 01:57 |
| oiaohm | By the time Windows 7 enters the market most of the secound wave attacks will in full fight | May 08 01:59 |
| DaemonFC | I do like some of what Microsoft has done with NTFS as of late | May 08 01:59 |
| yuhong | BTW, on Vista being the kitchen sink, here is a quote on exactly this: | May 08 01:59 |
| yuhong | From http://www.virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=193 | May 08 01:59 |
| oiaohm | Big problem MS has with samba with ads support NAS builders will be able to compete for Small business market against Small business server. | May 08 02:00 |
| DaemonFC | Well, Vista is humongous, but, I *STILL* have to bolt on all the usual add on software | May 08 02:00 |
| DaemonFC | to make it do anything | May 08 02:00 |
| yuhong | "I suspect that a few too many teams hitched a ride on Windows Vista to get their stuff pushed out to desktops, like .NET Framework 3.0." | May 08 02:00 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think that putting in .Net was any accident | May 08 02:01 |
| oiaohm | I suspect someone as MS though to be better than Linux they had to have a bigger install size. | May 08 02:01 |
| DaemonFC | few people would download the huge runtime | May 08 02:01 |
| yuhong | Nope, it was not an accident. | May 08 02:01 |
| DaemonFC | but developers will use it if it's installed on every system | May 08 02:01 |
| yuhong | Yep. | May 08 02:02 |
| DaemonFC | It's like JAVA, and telling your users they have to download 50 megs of runtime to run your 4 meg installer | May 08 02:02 |
| DaemonFC | so they spring that on you as part of THEIR installer | May 08 02:02 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 02:02 |
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| DaemonFC | If I know that .Net 3.0 is on every Vista computer, but I'd have to bother my customer with a huge runtime installation and new system services to get JAVA | May 08 02:03 |
| DaemonFC | I'd lean to .Net | May 08 02:03 |
| DaemonFC | that was the idea | May 08 02:04 |
| yuhong | BTW, MS once did bundle MSJVM with Windows. | May 08 02:04 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but it wasn't JAVA | May 08 02:05 |
| yuhong | But, they embarsed and extended the JVM the wrong way. | May 08 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | they made theirs incompatible and they made their developer tools spit out applets that couldn't run on Sun's | May 08 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | no, that was intentional | May 08 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | it ran better on Windows | May 08 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | and it ran ONLY on Windows | May 08 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | where's their problem? | May 08 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 02:05 |
| yuhong | Luckily Sun caught them and now MSJVM is dead. | May 08 02:05 |
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| DaemonFC | Microsoft has a tool to convert your MS JVM applets to .Net | May 08 02:06 |
| yuhong | Yep. | May 08 02:06 |
| oiaohm | .NET is basically MS recreating java to do what they want | May 08 02:07 |
| yuhong | But of course Sun Java is better. | May 08 02:07 |
| Balrog | and what's this J++ and J# ? | May 08 02:07 |
| DaemonFC | Balrog: I think I still have some books | May 08 02:07 |
| yuhong | Yep, these were MS versions of the Java language. | May 08 02:07 |
| DaemonFC | teaching you J++ and J# | May 08 02:07 |
| _Hicham_ | J++ is MS Java | May 08 02:07 |
| yuhong | Yep. | May 08 02:07 |
| Balrog | they're still supported, no? | May 08 02:08 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 02:08 |
| _Hicham_ | but it has been abandoned | May 08 02:08 |
| DaemonFC | not even security patches | May 08 02:08 |
| _Hicham_ | no support | May 08 02:08 |
| yuhong | Yep, MSJVM is no longer supported. | May 08 02:08 |
| DaemonFC | you can find it around but you should not install it | May 08 02:08 |
| _Hicham_ | there is only C# now | May 08 02:08 |
| Balrog | OK. | May 08 02:08 |
| yuhong | And VB.NET. | May 08 02:08 |
| *Ap0g33 is now known as Ap0g33_away | May 08 02:08 | |
| _Hicham_ | MSJVM was better looking than Sun's JVM at the time | May 08 02:09 |
| _Hicham_ | but things has changed | May 08 02:09 |
| _Hicham_ | though Java graphic API is still heavy | May 08 02:09 |
| _Hicham_ | especially swing | May 08 02:09 |
| _Hicham_ | Oh My God! | May 08 02:09 |
| _Hicham_ | Java was always running slow for me | May 08 02:10 |
| _Hicham_ | especially on Linux | May 08 02:10 |
| yuhong | I know! | May 08 02:10 |
| _Hicham_ | Java was a lie | May 08 02:10 |
| yuhong | On the matter of Apple, I like Apple and SJ for many reasons, but freedom is not one of them and never was. | May 08 02:10 |
| _Hicham_ | it was just a language for Solaris and Windows | May 08 02:10 |
| yuhong | _Hicham_: MSJVM was even worse. | May 08 02:10 |
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| _Hicham_ | no strong Linux support | May 08 02:11 |
| DaemonFC | J# is still supported | May 08 02:12 |
| _Hicham_ | a good open source language is Python | May 08 02:12 |
| DaemonFC | as part of .Net | May 08 02:12 |
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| yuhong | Yep, but it is not part of VS2008. | May 08 02:12 |
| yuhong | Though MS did port it to 64-bit. | May 08 02:12 |
| _Hicham_ | Python should have got more attention from enterprise devs | May 08 02:12 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck VS2008 | May 08 02:12 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm is silent, weird | May 08 02:13 |
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| yuhong | It was called the second edition. | May 08 02:13 |
| yuhong | >On the matter of Apple, I like Apple and SJ for many reasons, but freedom is not one of them and never was. | May 08 02:14 |
| _Hicham_ | Java is not free until now | May 08 02:14 |
| oiaohm | Doing supporting in winehq _Hicham_ | May 08 02:14 |
| yuhong | BTW, I was going to ask something, but considering schestowitz is not here, I won't. | May 08 02:14 |
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| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : will wine support DX10? | May 08 02:15 |
| oiaohm | Support for DX10 is under way. | May 08 02:15 |
| oiaohm | Already having teams preping up for DX 11. | May 08 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Wines direct X ie wined3d is used by many virtualisation companies on windows. | May 08 02:16 |
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| _Hicham_ | who sponsors wine? | May 08 02:19 |
| oiaohm | codeweavers funds the main site. They get money from google and others. Some developers come from paralls and vmware for the direct X side. | May 08 02:20 |
| oiaohm | Normal open source complete mixed bag of funding _Hicham_ | May 08 02:20 |
| oiaohm | Of course don't forget the Redhat coders in there as well. | May 08 02:21 |
| oiaohm | That I have had a few disputes with. | May 08 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Because I keep on forgeting about them. | May 08 02:21 |
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| DaemonFC | What's up with Bordeaux? | May 08 02:34 |
| oiaohm | Bordeaux we don't see direct money going back into wine. | May 08 02:36 |
| oiaohm | They use wine but the funding back to wine is not that high. | May 08 02:36 |
| DaemonFC | shit | May 08 02:37 |
| DaemonFC | brb | May 08 02:37 |
| DaemonFC | modem is telling me I have to sign up with Comcast | May 08 02:37 |
| DaemonFC | (storm just went over) | May 08 02:37 |
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| DaemonFC | http://actsvr.comcastonline.com/nocache/realactsvr.html | May 08 02:39 |
| DaemonFC | that's the only page that loads til I reset the modem after a storm sometimes :P | May 08 02:39 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000688.html | May 08 02:51 |
| ha ha | May 08 02:53 | |
| a couple of megabytes for Notepad? ha ha ha ha | May 08 02:55 | |
| My laptop only has 512 MB of RAM | May 08 02:56 | |
| DaemonFC | 1,352K | May 08 02:57 |
| DaemonFC | for an empty Notepad | May 08 02:57 |
| DaemonFC | $1 buys more like 100 megs of RAM | May 08 02:58 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 02:58 |
| I'm running Kontact, pidgin, Konqueror with 9 tabs, gedit, kweather, kworldclock, a couple of eterms and gnome terminal. | May 08 02:58 | |
| low load, for sure | May 08 02:58 | |
| DaemonFC | compared to 15 years ago where $100 bought 1 meg | May 08 02:58 |
| but I know I could also run OO, iceweasle and watch a movie | May 08 02:58 | |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 08 02:58 |
| reading about XP and Vista is truly a horror. | May 08 02:59 | |
| DaemonFC | meh, there's really no reason to squabble about how much RAM an operating system uses | May 08 02:59 |
| DaemonFC | this isn't 1999 | May 08 02:59 |
| I'm not going to squabble, XP is a pig. | May 08 02:59 | |
| DaemonFC | XP is fairly minimal | May 08 03:00 |
| I have to run it at work and it absolutely kills much nicer hardware than I have at home | May 08 03:00 | |
| DaemonFC | XP is fairly responsive on some pretty low end shit | May 08 03:00 |
| DaemonFC | not just low end shit by 2009 standards | May 08 03:00 |
| DaemonFC | low end shit by 2002 standards | May 08 03:00 |
| Your idea of responsive is generous. | May 08 03:00 | |
| DaemonFC | XP will run reasonably well on 512 megs of RAM and a 1 Ghz CPU | May 08 03:01 |
| Your idea of reasonable is not. | May 08 03:01 | |
| DaemonFC | I've seen it sold with systems with as little as 128 megs of RAM | May 08 03:02 |
| You can also get it on netbooks. That does not make it work. | May 08 03:02 | |
| I have to run an application for records keeping. It bombs at least once a day. | May 08 03:02 | |
| DaemonFC | anything over a gig of RAM is really just going to be wasted with XP | May 08 03:02 |
| DaemonFC | I mean it's there, but you'd really have to run a lot to overload it | May 08 03:03 |
| Windows is a waste of any hardware. Really. | May 08 03:03 | |
| I get my job done with a lot more hardware than we are talking about here. | May 08 03:03 | |
| but it's slow and crash prone | May 08 03:03 | |
| Outlook really sucks. | May 08 03:03 | |
| I have to run an application for records keeping. It bombs at least once a day. | May 08 03:04 | |
| DaemonFC | you really have to look to find hardware so minimal that XP won't run fine on it | May 08 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not even sure they still sell any | May 08 03:04 |
| I want better performance. XP is clumsy. | May 08 03:04 | |
| Single screen. | May 08 03:04 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah, XP is 8 years old | May 08 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | of course it's clumsy on a modern PC | May 08 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | it was meant for much slower systems | May 08 03:05 |
| E16 is ten years old, but vastly better. | May 08 03:05 | |
| graceful and functional | May 08 03:05 | |
| DaemonFC | I didn't say I liked XP | May 08 03:05 |
| DaemonFC | it's far too limited to use on a modern PC | May 08 03:06 |
| You keep calling it "reasonable" and "Minimal" when it's not. | May 08 03:06 | |
| DaemonFC | it is minimal | May 08 03:06 |
| It's bloated and clumsy. It turns both new and old hardware into garbage | May 08 03:06 | |
| DaemonFC | the kiosk version of it runs fine with 64 megs of RAM | May 08 03:06 |
| What do you mean "fine"? | May 08 03:06 | |
| DaemonFC | enough to run a kiosk | May 08 03:07 |
| DaemonFC | the ones I use basically just load a touchscreen system in an embedded Internet Explorer | May 08 03:07 |
| GPE on a 200 MHz ARM is enough to run a Kiosk. | May 08 03:07 | |
| DaemonFC | pushed full screen | May 08 03:07 |
| DaemonFC | WinFLP is lighter though | May 08 03:08 |
| it would probably handle my work better than XP does too. | May 08 03:08 | |
| DaemonFC | I have a WinFLP disc if you want ne :) | May 08 03:08 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 08 03:08 |
| DaemonFC | it's fairly novel | May 08 03:09 |
| DaemonFC | mostly XP compatible but much smaller | May 08 03:09 |
| No thanks. Someone else is responsible for that stuff. I'm staying out of it, other than to recommend complete replacement and Wine for the parts that can't be removed. | May 08 03:09 | |
| *DaemonFC is a collector of operating systems :P | May 08 03:09 | |
| DaemonFC | makes as much sense as collecting coins, stamps, or pogs I guessw | May 08 03:09 |
| I've got OS/2 floppies, ha ha. | May 08 03:09 | |
| completely useless | May 08 03:10 | |
| DaemonFC | My favorite by far is still Fedora | May 08 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | but OS X is quite good | May 08 03:10 |
| It's been a while since I've looked at Fedora. | May 08 03:10 | |
| DaemonFC | F11 Preview is looking good | May 08 03:10 |
| I never did grok their set up files | May 08 03:10 | |
| Debian is good to me. | May 08 03:11 | |
| DaemonFC | Fedora is getting easier to set up and use than Ubuntu | May 08 03:11 |
| DaemonFC | and has a concept of security | May 08 03:11 |
| DaemonFC | (Ubuntu doesn't) | May 08 03:11 |
| one thing you are right about is the price of RAM. I should buy some more for my laptop. | May 08 03:12 | |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu has the firewall disabled and ships with AppArmor.....turned off | May 08 03:12 |
| DaemonFC | it's not what you'd want to use in a secure environment | May 08 03:12 |
| why do you need a firewall when you don't run services? | May 08 03:12 | |
| DaemonFC | because it should be easy enough to set and forget | May 08 03:12 |
| what is AppArmor? | May 08 03:12 | |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu makes an ass out of itself if you try to use it | May 08 03:13 |
| I see people using it | May 08 03:13 | |
| they like it | May 08 03:13 | |
| I don't like sudo | May 08 03:13 | |
| DaemonFC | AppArmor is a Linux Security Module that uses Mandatory Access Controls | May 08 03:13 |
| Why do I need that? | May 08 03:13 | |
| DaemonFC | Advantage over SELinux is that profiles are easier to define | May 08 03:13 |
| profiles? | May 08 03:13 | |
| DaemonFC | Disadvantage is that is easy to hack through by using simple symlinks | May 08 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | and other methods | May 08 03:14 |
| sounds like a waste | May 08 03:14 | |
| DaemonFC | a complete waste | May 08 03:14 |
| why mention it? | May 08 03:14 | |
| DaemonFC | Fedora has a default SELinux profile that won't usually get in the users way | May 08 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | but still locks down critical services | May 08 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | and applications | May 08 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | (Firefox and such) | May 08 03:15 |
| locks down? | May 08 03:15 | |
| DaemonFC | limits them to only the kind of permissions they should need to operate correctly | May 08 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | so that if they do something they shouldn't, they won't be allowed | May 08 03:15 |
| don't they already have that when run as a non root user? | May 08 03:15 | |
| DaemonFC | it's meant to mitigate the impact of a security vulnerability | May 08 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | because some services run with root level access | May 08 03:16 |
| what can I make FF do that I can't do directly? | May 08 03:16 | |
| FF does not run with root level access | May 08 03:16 | |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SELinux | May 08 03:16 |
| DaemonFC | no, but it can be sandboxed nonetheless | May 08 03:16 |
| sounds like snake oil. Good for Ubuntu to not use it. | May 08 03:17 | |
| DaemonFC | that's why you should run Flash in nspluginwrapper | May 08 03:17 |
| You should not run Flash. | May 08 03:17 | |
| :) | May 08 03:17 | |
| DaemonFC | even if you ue the 64-bit on a 64-bit system or 32-bit on 32-bit system | May 08 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | that was SELinux can sandbox it | May 08 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is reidiculously weak | May 08 03:17 |
| I've used Gnash. It has a nice 64 bit version | May 08 03:18 | |
| Yet Ubuntu always wins the Pown to own contest you mention | May 08 03:18 | |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is encouraging poor computing practices on the assumption that nobody will ever try to exploit any problems with it | May 08 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | which is a piss poor attitude | May 08 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | that would be like removing the safety belts from a car and telling the owner they won't ever need them | May 08 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | and not to worry or ask questions | May 08 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | the pwn to own contest is too contrived to be mistaken as a security gauge | May 08 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | the vulnerabilities they use to "hack into" Windows or Mac have never been flaws in Windows Vista or OS X | May 08 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | but usually in Flash or something | May 08 03:21 |
| Flash or something, yeah. | May 08 03:22 | |
| DaemonFC | Why don't they put Flash in Firefox on Ubuntu in that machine? | May 08 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | because that would undermine their overly engineered PR message that Ubuntu is secure cause it is less functional out of box? | May 08 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | they need to make all three of them as similarly configured as possible | May 08 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | if one had third party software, the others should have it too | May 08 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | or else the result is invalid | May 08 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | notice they never said the vulnerability wasn't in Linux Flash, they merely had not installed it | May 08 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | so they intentionally hobbled Vista and OS X with a security hole they left out of Ubuntu | May 08 03:27 |
| DaemonFC | might have been interesting to see the order they got "pwned" in if they all either did or did not have Flash | May 08 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | my guess is either all or none of them would have been | May 08 03:29 |
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| guess again. There are plenty of holes in Windoze, no flash is required. IE, Outlook and so on and so forth. Hell, you can just stick in a well crafted USB stick. | May 08 03:35 | |
| DaemonFC | turn autoplay off | May 08 03:35 |
| "out of the box" | May 08 03:36 | |
| I imagine the reason Flash is installed on Mac and Windows PC in the contest is that's the way most of those machines arrive. | May 08 03:37 | |
| You know, they take the computer out of the box and let people play with it. | May 08 03:37 | |
| DaemonFC | Vista does not have Flash by default | May 08 03:37 |
| Yeah, instead it has ultra secure Silverblight | May 08 03:37 | |
| ha ah | May 08 03:37 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 03:37 |
| ha | May 08 03:37 | |
| DaemonFC | doesn't have that | May 08 03:37 |
| No? | May 08 03:38 | |
| It's not part of SP1 or SP2? | May 08 03:38 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 03:38 |
| good for them | May 08 03:38 | |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 03:38 |
| No wonder no one uses it. | May 08 03:38 | |
| DaemonFC | so out of box it has no JAVA, Flash, or Silverlight | May 08 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | so test it like that :) | May 08 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | and the rules say all available security updates | May 08 03:39 |
| That's not the way you get it from Dell, HP or most others. | May 08 03:39 | |
| DaemonFC | IE 8 is included | May 08 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | this isn't about HP or Dell | May 08 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | if something HP or Dell does fucks it up | May 08 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | say HP or Dell fucked it up | May 08 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | wouldn't be the first time | May 08 03:40 |
| It's about "out of the box" | May 08 03:40 | |
| DaemonFC | that doesn't count | May 08 03:40 |
| They take a computer out of the box, the way most computers get to people | May 08 03:40 | |
| DaemonFC | out of box would be default configuration from Microsoft | May 08 03:40 |
| It counts. | May 08 03:40 | |
| It's the way most people have their computers | May 08 03:40 | |
| DaemonFC | sowhy does Ubuntu get preferential treatment? | May 08 03:40 |
| DaemonFC | Why don't they test Dell's configuration? | May 08 03:40 |
| That's the way most people get Ubuntu | May 08 03:40 | |
| DaemonFC | Who gives a fuck what Dell does, that's Dell | May 08 03:41 |
| DaemonFC | can Ubuntu stop them? | May 08 03:41 |
| They could, I suppose, but I don't think M$ wants to advertise that Dell comes with Ubuntu | May 08 03:41 | |
| Or HP | May 08 03:41 | |
| or that those models are selling well | May 08 03:41 | |
| ha ha | May 08 03:41 | |
| DaemonFC | OEMs mess up XP or Vista far beyond what it's like "out of the box" | May 08 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | Dell even installs a search page hijacker | May 08 03:42 |
| Oh well. | May 08 03:42 | |
| DaemonFC | in collaberation with Google | May 08 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately Google is akin to a drive by malware vendor | May 08 03:42 |
| Windows is search page hijacker. | May 08 03:42 | |
| DaemonFC | and they have a huge vested stake in Firefox | May 08 03:43 |
| DaemonFC | they've already turned Firefox into spyware | May 08 03:43 |
| FF, Konq and other free software browsers let the user configure what search engines they use in a drop down menu on the search itself. | May 08 03:43 | |
| Iceweasel is not spyware. | May 08 03:44 | |
| DaemonFC | Firefox reports to Google what pages you visit and such | May 08 03:44 |
| DaemonFC | that is spyware in my book | May 08 03:44 |
| DaemonFC | it does it by default without user consent | May 08 03:44 |
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| Google knows who visit google and what they search. They will be spyware by your book, as will any search engine | May 08 03:44 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 03:44 |
| DaemonFC | the user gets spied on by google | May 08 03:45 |
| DaemonFC | even if they don't use Google | May 08 03:45 |
| DaemonFC | cause the spyware is built-in to Firefox | May 08 03:45 |
| I doubt this is part of Iceweasel | May 08 03:45 | |
| so it's not something you need in FF. | May 08 03:45 | |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately most free software is being coopted by the bad guys | May 08 03:45 |
| Ut oh, I better run back to Winblows and use their Live Search. LOL | May 08 03:46 | |
| DaemonFC | how long do you figure it will be before Ubuntu gives up plunking along with no business plan? | May 08 03:47 |
| DaemonFC | it's been a loss leader for nearly 5 years | May 08 03:47 |
| DaemonFC | half of Windows users don't even use IE | May 08 03:48 |
| Canonical is profitable now, I thought. | May 08 03:49 | |
| DaemonFC | nope | May 08 03:49 |
| DaemonFC | Shuttleworth is still shoveling his own money in as fast as Canonical can burn it | May 08 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | he had this big idea that there would be people flocking to Canonical to buy support contracts | May 08 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | and the only Ubuntu server I've seen in the wild are bored teenagers hosting IRC and a personal website on it | May 08 03:51 |
| he's gotten that | May 08 03:51 | |
| DaemonFC | speaks loads about quality | May 08 03:51 |
| and he's selling netbooks | May 08 03:51 | |
| DaemonFC | not selling | May 08 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | dumping | May 08 03:52 |
| you can't dump free software | May 08 03:52 | |
| DaemonFC | those agreements are to give it away for free | May 08 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | well, Canonical is a business with no prospects of becoming profitable | May 08 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | and without them, there's no Ubuntu | May 08 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | so the result is the same | May 08 03:52 |
| doom and gloom, Linux is deh failrue | May 08 03:52 | |
| I don't think so. | May 08 03:53 | |
| DaemonFC | no, it's just stupid to try and make a business in desktop Linux | May 08 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | every company that tried to do that is either bankrupt of close to it | May 08 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | or gave up | May 08 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | (Red Hat) | May 08 03:53 |
| Lets' see. Xandros sold an OS to ASUS at $5 each. ASUS expected to sell about 100,000,000 of them. | May 08 03:53 | |
| that's not bad money for an 80 person company. | May 08 03:54 | |
| DaemonFC | nobody will sell 100 million copies of Xandros | May 08 03:54 |
| DaemonFC | that's ridiculous | May 08 03:54 |
| how many EEE PCs have been sold? | May 08 03:54 | |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu dumps free CDs at their expense | May 08 03:54 |
| DaemonFC | and don't even have a tenth that many users | May 08 03:54 |
| how do you know? | May 08 03:55 | |
| DaemonFC | there were about 8 million Ubuntu users late last year | May 08 03:55 |
| There are about 100 million desktop users in the US alone. | May 08 03:55 | |
| DaemonFC | far cry from 100 million | May 08 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | no, I mean 8 million in the world | May 08 03:55 |
| how do you know? | May 08 03:56 | |
| DaemonFC | Shuttleworth estimated that in an interview | May 08 03:56 |
| Did you count the dude I met in the coffee shop last week, who's buddy downloaded and installed for him? | May 08 03:56 | |
| DaemonFC | he also said they were "nowhere close" to profitability | May 08 03:56 |
| That interview was at least a year ago | May 08 03:56 | |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva is the only one with a real end user product | May 08 03:57 |
| break even was predicted | May 08 03:57 | |
| DaemonFC | instead of a loss leader or a developer playground | May 08 03:57 |
| DaemonFC | and they're firing people | May 08 03:57 |
| Debian is what, 15 years old now? | May 08 03:57 | |
| It's not going away. | May 08 03:57 | |
| DaemonFC | Debian isn't a company | May 08 03:57 |
| Right. | May 08 03:57 | |
| DaemonFC | they operate on donations | May 08 03:57 |
| wrong | May 08 03:57 | |
| DaemonFC | totally different concept | May 08 03:57 |
| DaemonFC | nobody would donate to Canonical | May 08 03:58 |
| DaemonFC | cause they're a company | May 08 03:58 |
| people are going to get their work done with free software because it works better. | May 08 03:58 | |
| DaemonFC | if I give things out for free, lots od people will take one | May 08 03:58 |
| DaemonFC | if I ask for even the smallest amount of money, they'd all run away | May 08 03:58 |
| Canonical can go out of business or do like Red Hat, it does not matter. The community will get the work done and they don't mind sharing the result. | May 08 03:59 | |
| DaemonFC | no, there's really no reason for Ubuntu to exist | May 08 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | other than to be a corporate clone of Debian | May 08 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | I doubt it would live on past Shuttleworth's direct financing | May 08 03:59 |
| there's not reason people should not do that either | May 08 03:59 | |
| DaemonFC | it would be a better use of time and effort to really contribute to Debian | May 08 04:00 |
| You probably thought Red Hat would fail too. | May 08 04:00 | |
| DaemonFC | instead of jsut repackaging their stuff | May 08 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | and making it brown | May 08 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | Red Hat is credible | May 08 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | they are profitable and growing rapidly | May 08 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | they're doing something right that Canonical isn't copying | May 08 04:00 |
| and Canonical is not? why because they have "brown" wallpaper? | May 08 04:01 | |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is just a meaningless fork | May 08 04:01 |
| DaemonFC | it exists to give Canonical direct control | May 08 04:01 |
| whatever | May 08 04:01 | |
| You are easy to please when it comes to Windows and hard to please when it comes to commercial GNU/Linux. | May 08 04:01 | |
| DaemonFC | meh, Windows doesn't make any false pretenses about what it is | May 08 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | or why it exists | May 08 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | My way of thinking is that Ubuntu would disappear if users had to pay even $15 for it | May 08 04:03 |
| DaemonFC | it would be like me saying "I have a free car, it's underpowered and has no air conditioning, but it is free" | May 08 04:04 |
| DaemonFC | they've just done a lot of really awful/stupid things that I thoroughly disagree with | May 08 04:04 |
| DaemonFC | they're becoming the Microsoft of desktop Linux | May 08 04:05 |
| DaemonFC | in the fact that all software is ignoring that other distributions exist and saying "Fuck it, it runs on Ubuntu" | May 08 04:05 |
| Users have already paid $15 for Ubuntu, via OEM price. | May 08 04:05 | |
| DaemonFC | no, it's free | May 08 04:06 |
| It's cheaper than Winblows. | May 08 04:06 | |
| DaemonFC | they never got paid for that | May 08 04:06 |
| not zero cost | May 08 04:06 | |
| DaemonFC | Dell doesn't pay Ubuntu anything | May 08 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | they only spam the support contracts | May 08 04:06 |
| Show me. | May 08 04:06 | |
| DaemonFC | you may be paying for codec and patent licensing | May 08 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | but ubuntu isn't making money | May 08 04:06 |
| bullshit | May 08 04:06 | |
| DaemonFC | Dell bundles DVD software | May 08 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | and mpeg decoders | May 08 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | you are paying license and patent fees | May 08 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | otherwise they would be sued | May 08 04:07 |
| *neonfloss has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 08 04:07 | |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu has a pile of pirate codecs | May 08 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | but they don't bundle them | May 08 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | that makes Ubuntu legal to distribute | May 08 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 04:08 |
| *neonfloss (n=neon@rdsl-0145.tor.pathcom.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 08 04:08 | |
| DaemonFC | it just gives you a stern talking to that it's illegal to use the Ubuntu codec packages in most countries | May 08 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | and you *wink wink* agree you don't live in any of them | May 08 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | but Dell is a US company doing business in said countries | May 08 04:09 |
| DaemonFC | so they can't weasel out of the licensing that way | May 08 04:09 |
| DaemonFC | so when you buy a Dell with Ubuntu, you paid MPEG LA a license fee | May 08 04:09 |
| DaemonFC | so if you buy a Dell Ubuntu system you are directly financing the patent and licensing people you claim to want to overthrow | May 08 04:10 |
| DaemonFC | which means you may as well have bought Windows | May 08 04:11 |
| DaemonFC | because "ethically" there's no difference | May 08 04:11 |
| DaemonFC | and there's no option to buy a Dell Ubuntu system without MPEG LA's licensing crap or the official codecs either | May 08 04:11 |
| What's a "pirate codec"? | May 08 04:12 | |
| DaemonFC | well, Ubuntu's codecs are illegal | May 08 04:12 |
| DaemonFC | that's why Ubuntu doesn't come with them | May 08 04:13 |
| are you telling me that morally wrong to use mpeg without paying a fee? LOL | May 08 04:13 | |
| DaemonFC | you are breaking the law when you download Ubuntu's codec pack | May 08 04:13 |
| bullshit | May 08 04:13 | |
| Debian has codecs, they are legal. | May 08 04:13 | |
| DaemonFC | yes, you are illegally downloading them | May 08 04:13 |
| DaemonFC | same as getting Windows off the Pirate Bay | May 08 04:13 |
| DaemonFC | nope | May 08 04:13 |
| DaemonFC | debian-multimedia.org is not a Debian project | May 08 04:14 |
| I don't use that and things work | May 08 04:14 | |
| DaemonFC | those codecs are still illegal | May 08 04:14 |
| bullshit | May 08 04:14 | |
| DaemonFC | it's illegal under US, UK, Canadian, and other various law | May 08 04:14 |
| and you did not answer the moral question | May 08 04:14 | |
| DaemonFC | to use those | May 08 04:14 |
| DaemonFC | you are violating the law | May 08 04:14 |
| says you. | May 08 04:15 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 04:15 |
| DaemonFC | says Ubuntu | May 08 04:15 |
| DaemonFC | they even warn you it's illegal in a lot of countries | May 08 04:15 |
| show me the FSLC page | May 08 04:15 | |
| and tell me how Debian distributes "illegal" codecs. | May 08 04:15 | |
| DaemonFC | Debian doesn't | May 08 04:15 |
| DaemonFC | debian-multimedia.org distributes illegal codecs | May 08 04:16 |
| then how do I get to watch most all formats without degian-mm in my apt? | May 08 04:16 | |
| eh? | May 08 04:16 | |
| DaemonFC | the codecs you get from Ubuntu are legally the same as downloading Windows from The Pirate Bay | May 08 04:16 |
| or rape murdering you kittens? | May 08 04:16 | |
| DaemonFC | MPEG and Windows codecs are illegal | May 08 04:16 |
| piracy? | May 08 04:16 | |
| DaemonFC | unless you pay to license them | May 08 04:16 |
| arrrrrr! | May 08 04:17 | |
| DaemonFC | the only exception is the Fluendo Codec Pack | May 08 04:17 |
| DaemonFC | ::) | May 08 04:17 |
| hand me your booty, bungholer! | May 08 04:17 | |
| DaemonFC | I'm just saying that using Ubuntu's "Restricted Extras" package is just as illegal as getting Windows off The Pirate Bay | May 08 04:17 |
| I think you need to reexamine your ethics, so that later you do not regret the things you do and say. | May 08 04:17 | |
| DaemonFC | and it's true | May 08 04:18 |
| DaemonFC | you may not like the law | May 08 04:18 |
| DaemonFC | that doesn't mean you're not violating it | May 08 04:18 |
| and you may not know the law | May 08 04:18 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 04:18 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu even says not to use them if you're in the US | May 08 04:18 |
| I think Debian knows better than you. | May 08 04:18 | |
| DaemonFC | as soon as you click to download them | May 08 04:18 |
| DaemonFC | there's a free MP3 codec that's legal | May 08 04:18 |
| DaemonFC | Fluendo's | May 08 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | that's about it | May 08 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://blog.canonical.com/?p=37 | May 08 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | "These users should also be allowed legal DVD and media playback and so we have built a way of letting them do this." | May 08 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | "We cannot ship codecs through the distro, as they are not free to redistribute." | May 08 04:20 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 04:20 |
| DaemonFC | http://ostatic.com/blog/canonical-opens-codec-sales-and-potential-can-of-worms#rss | May 08 04:20 |
| they are talking about DeCSS, which is against US law to distribute. That's not Mpeg. You need to be specific. | May 08 04:20 | |
| DaemonFC | "Realistically, of course, a far greater percentage of Linux users would do what is done presently. They have computers, they have media -- and they want to use them. These users would continue to install the codecs despite local laws prohibiting their use." | May 08 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | MPEG is likewise covered | May 08 04:21 |
| bullshit | May 08 04:21 | |
| DaemonFC | and it's not DeCSS | May 08 04:21 |
| exactly. | May 08 04:21 | |
| DaemonFC | the code3cs also have to be legally purchased | May 08 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | not just the DVD decryption | May 08 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | you can go find illegal codecs and illegal things like libdvdcss | May 08 04:22 |
| I think you are confused. I'm able to watch YouTube with nothing but Debian. | May 08 04:22 | |
| DaemonFC | and those wilol work | May 08 04:22 |
| DaemonFC | but they're illegal | May 08 04:22 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 04:22 |
| you don't think? | May 08 04:22 | |
| DaemonFC | Debian has SWFDEC | May 08 04:22 |
| I've got clive and vlc, straight out of the box, it works. | May 08 04:22 | |
| DaemonFC | VLC is illegal | May 08 04:22 |
| I can also use gnash, which works fine too. | May 08 04:23 | |
| Debian's version of VLC does not violate US laws. | May 08 04:23 | |
| DaemonFC | most distros rip out libdvdcss or remove the illegal codecs | May 08 04:23 |
| DaemonFC | then give you VLC | May 08 04:23 |
| I'd rather use theora anyway. | May 08 04:23 | |
| that's basically what these stupid laws drive people to. | May 08 04:23 | |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu can play the most popular non-free media formats, including DVD, MP3, Quicktime, Windows Media, and more by following the instructions below. If this seems like unnecessary work, remember that Ubuntu is a distribution of free software and these packages are (at least arguably) affected by patents and license restrictions in some countries. | May 08 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats | May 08 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | Legal Notice Patent and copyright laws operate differently depending on which country you are in. Please obtain legal advice if you are unsure whether a particular patent or restriction applies to a media format you wish to use in your country. | May 08 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | disclaimer followed by illegal codecs | May 08 04:25 |
| DaemonFC | yay | May 08 04:25 |
| DaemonFC | it's the same as Limewire making you click something that says you won't download unlicensed MP3s with it | May 08 04:26 |
| DaemonFC | then you go off and download unlicensed MP3s | May 08 04:26 |
| you should use the correct term, "share" | May 08 04:27 | |
| DaemonFC | no, both are illegal | May 08 04:27 |
| DaemonFC | so some people turn off their shares to make it less likely they'll be caught | May 08 04:27 |
| limewire and other p2p programs don't "download" they share | May 08 04:28 | |
| there's a difference | May 08 04:28 | |
| DaemonFC | that's like making sure you tie your shoes so you don't trip over the laces on your way out with a stolen TV set | May 08 04:28 |
| and you should be specific | May 08 04:28 | |
| no, it's like sharing vrs watching TV | May 08 04:28 | |
| the user also uploads | May 08 04:28 | |
| it's the protocol | May 08 04:28 | |
| DaemonFC | technicalities | May 08 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | it's the same argument the gun nuts use | May 08 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | every time a school is shot up | May 08 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | "That's not the only use for it" | May 08 04:29 |
| false analogy | May 08 04:30 | |
| be specific | May 08 04:30 | |
| and accurate | May 08 04:30 | |
| or you will look like an idiot :) | May 08 04:30 | |
| DaemonFC | Limewire is just surfing around on a technicality even though in practice, it's nothing but viruses, kiddie porn, and unlicensed music | May 08 04:30 |
| file sharing has created the greatest public libraries in existence. | May 08 04:31 | |
| if all YOU get out of them is porn and top 40 music, that's your loss. | May 08 04:31 | |
| DaemonFC | Limewire is at least amusing sometimes when people put their bank statements and tax returns in their shares | May 08 04:31 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 04:31 |
| DaemonFC | so where are the books? | May 08 04:32 |
| DaemonFC | those are licensed too you know? | May 08 04:32 |
| DaemonFC | not that I've seen any on there | May 08 04:32 |
| DaemonFC | you're not going to find any great literary masterpieces on Limewire | May 08 04:32 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 04:32 |
| see project gutenberg for books | May 08 04:33 | |
| but music and movies are also part of your cultural heritage | May 08 04:33 | |
| DaemonFC | no, they're "content" | May 08 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 04:33 |
| you can see plenty of both at archive.org, which also has a nifty book collection | May 08 04:33 | |
| DaemonFC | of course it all sounds the samer | May 08 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | so who cares? | May 08 04:33 |
| "content" is an insult to creators | May 08 04:33 | |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 08 04:34 |
| let's see you do better | May 08 04:34 | |
| DaemonFC | well, if the RIAA was abusing the artists, they wouldn't sign agreements, drive sports cars, live in mansions, and use cocaine | May 08 04:34 |
| if it's all the same, why bother licensing and restricting? | May 08 04:34 | |
| DaemonFC | so I doubt they're getting screwed | May 08 04:34 |
| Read Courtney Love's account of the deal. | May 08 04:35 | |
| http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/ | May 08 04:35 | |
| that article is 9 years old and things have gotten worse, not better. | May 08 04:36 | |
| do you know any musicians? | May 08 04:36 | |
| DaemonFC | meh | May 08 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | There won't be any chance of displacing patent encumbered formats until you can give people easy access toequal or better formats | May 08 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | and that would mean people getting over their anti-Windows tic enough to push free software, on Windows | May 08 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | eventually there wouldn't be any reason to stay | May 08 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | you notice that bands are bypassing the recording labels and releasing straight into FLAC sometimes? | May 08 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | that's a good thing | May 08 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | even Microsoft uses ogg Vorbis | May 08 04:45 |
| there is already no reason to use Windows | May 08 04:45 | |
| DaemonFC | there are some | May 08 04:46 |
| I have noticed the failure of record lables | May 08 04:46 | |
| name one good reason to use Windows that overcomes it's massive disavantages | May 08 04:46 | |
| DaemonFC | There are still some entire classes of hardware that Linux still fails to support | May 08 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | but that's narrowing | May 08 04:46 |
| what task does that prevent you from accomplishing? | May 08 04:47 | |
| DaemonFC | Using a $150 piece of hardware | May 08 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | using a $70 piece of hardware | May 08 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | and using a $50 piece of hardware | May 08 04:47 |
| why would I care, if a $10 piece of hardware does the job? | May 08 04:48 | |
| DaemonFC | no compatibility with Ustream, no compatibility with voice and video calls on Yahoo or WLM | May 08 04:48 |
| I can use Ekiga and gnugateway | May 08 04:48 | |
| or kde's IM for video chat | May 08 04:48 | |
| While commercial phone makers are turning to free software, I'm afraid you will have to do better than that. | May 08 04:49 | |
| DaemonFC | Kopete doesn't support that | May 08 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | tried it | May 08 04:49 |
| works with my webcam | May 08 04:51 | |
| though I have yet to try it with an actual MSN user. they are so rare these days | May 08 04:51 | |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't even open anything when I try to use it | May 08 04:51 |
| does your webcam work? | May 08 04:51 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah, in GNOME | May 08 04:51 |
| you should see an image with kopete when you use it. | May 08 04:51 | |
| DaemonFC | doesn't seem to work with anything in KDE | May 08 04:52 |
| you need to fix that by adjusting the device used. | May 08 04:52 | |
| DaemonFC | I did | May 08 04:52 |
| I'm not sure where Fedora keeps that info. | May 08 04:52 | |
| or why my particular camera works with Debian. | May 08 04:52 | |
| DaemonFC | UVC webcams work alright with Debian | May 08 04:53 |
| but the blanket statement, "you can't do video phone" with gnu/linux is false. | May 08 04:53 | |
| DaemonFC | you can | May 08 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | but people don't know what Ekiga is | May 08 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | and won't download it | May 08 04:53 |
| they probably turn to Skype, which works but is not free software. | May 08 04:54 | |
| Companies will deploy the free thing before they bother with Skype, we should hope. | May 08 04:54 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | companies deploy whatever works well enough to use | May 08 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | most big companies go with Windows | May 08 04:56 |
| DaemonFC | it's basically it's own standard | May 08 04:56 |
| You might as well have said most big companies go with Vista. | May 08 04:58 | |
| it's basically broken. | May 08 04:59 | |
| the future is undecided. | May 08 04:59 | |
| but it won't be Windows | May 08 04:59 | |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | May 08 05:22 | |
| porn star wants to censor US internet http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/CanadaWorld/2009/05/07/9382071.html | May 08 05:25 | |
| the guy wearing diapers probably agreed, if he knew what the internet was. | May 08 05:26 | |
| my home state, shame. | May 08 05:26 | |
| hey look, M$ is a market leader again. http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT | May 08 05:31 | |
| back under their $20 rock. | May 08 05:31 | |
| as banks and government spending dry up, they go broke. | May 08 05:31 | |
| the rest of us get to go free | May 08 05:32 | |
| good bye to bad rubbish | May 08 05:32 | |
| here's an astroturfing effort that has come back to haunt those who perpetuated it http://www.prwatch.org/node/8367 | May 08 05:35 | |
| better to resign than lie for others | May 08 05:36 | |
| they will leave you hanging if people get angry about it. | May 08 05:36 | |
| ha ha, another Windows 7 sucks benchmark | May 08 05:45 | |
| http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/07/1338206 | May 08 05:45 | |
| still slower than XP, which itself is shit compared to GNU/Linux. | May 08 05:46 | |
| *neonfloss has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 08 05:46 | |
| that makes Windows 7 third or fourth rate, behind XP, Linux and Mac, and essentially equal to Vista. | May 08 05:47 | |
| oiaohm | Linux will get faster. | May 08 05:48 |
| oiaohm | And it will get lighter too. | May 08 05:48 |
| *neonfloss (n=neon@rdsl-0145.tor.pathcom.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 08 05:48 | |
| *zer0c00l has quit ("powercut :(") | May 08 05:52 | |
| I'm pleasantly surprised by the speed up offered by 2.6.26 | May 08 05:54 | |
| it took a while for me to figure out power management under it but that seems to work well for me now. | May 08 05:55 | |
| it comes with the added benefit of on demand performance management, which is good for battery life. | May 08 05:56 | |
| Kpower save has a nifty little demonstration of the stepping. | May 08 05:56 | |
| my current "scheme" is performance dynamic. | May 08 05:57 | |
| my CPU runs at 800 MHz most of the time and this speed is displayed as a bar. | May 08 05:57 | |
| moving the window makes the CPU jump to 1200 MHz. | May 08 05:58 | |
| simple activity, like typing does not trip it as much depending on the application. | May 08 05:59 | |
| oiaohm | There is only better to come twitter. | May 08 05:59 |
| pidgin trips it, but gnome-terminal does not | May 08 05:59 | |
| even tough gnome-terminal uses transparency. funny | May 08 05:59 | |
| oiaohm | ksm basicallly compressing ram so more applications fits in it. Better locking so more time in idling. | May 08 06:00 |
| oiaohm | Better video card management. | May 08 06:00 |
| better is nice, I was happy with what I had 8 yeas ago. | May 08 06:00 | |
| oiaohm | These are all going to give savings. | May 08 06:00 |
| Yes, it's been a fun ride. | May 08 06:00 | |
| oiaohm | The big stuff has not happened yet. | May 08 06:01 |
| oh yeah, better video card support is something that should come out of ATI and Intel these days. | May 08 06:01 | |
| oiaohm | Intel having hell. | May 08 06:01 |
| oiaohm | New dri2 uxa driver is faster just it has card issues. | May 08 06:01 |
| oiaohm | From intel ie it works with some cards not others. | May 08 06:02 |
| Vista failure hurt everyone, now comes the depression and all the OEMs are scrambling for the next big thing. | May 08 06:02 | |
| oiaohm | Vista was made a failure. | May 08 06:02 |
| Intel will sink unless they can start making competitive chips and quit hanging on Winblows. | May 08 06:02 | |
| oiaohm | if netbooks had not taken off the same old cycle would have happend again. | May 08 06:03 |
| how was Vista made a failure? | May 08 06:03 | |
| besides being horrible? | May 08 06:03 | |
| oiaohm | Vista was made with the Idea that computers would just get more powerful. | May 08 06:03 |
| DRM ridden. | May 08 06:03 | |
| oiaohm | Also in the idea that MS competition was not strong enough to cause problems. | May 08 06:03 |
| computers did get more powerful | May 08 06:03 | |
| oiaohm | netbooks are about 5 to 8 year old tech. | May 08 06:03 |
| that did not fix Vista | May 08 06:03 | |
| sure, my laptop is from 2002. | May 08 06:04 | |
| works great | May 08 06:04 | |
| oiaohm | That is the problem. | May 08 06:04 |
| as long as you don't use Windows | May 08 06:04 | |
| oiaohm | The market stalled. | May 08 06:04 |
| oiaohm | CPU makers hit the limit of power they could put in a single core as well. | May 08 06:04 |
| Vista failed because it was horribly broken, this happened long before the current crisis happened. | May 08 06:05 | |
| In the last couple of years Vista has still not been fixed. | May 08 06:05 | |
| oiaohm | Vista would have been a minor bump like win95(xp) to win98(vista) to win98se(windows 7) without the Linux presures. | May 08 06:06 |
| oiaohm | Remember Win98 never got fully fixed twitter | May 08 06:06 |
| No, there was significant Linux pressure in 98 too. | May 08 06:06 | |
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| oiaohm | Not really. | May 08 06:06 |
| oiaohm | I was using Linux in 98. | May 08 06:06 |
| oiaohm | Configuring a Linux desktop back then was hell on earth. | May 08 06:07 |
| It's been a steady build. I had Red Hat in 98 myself | May 08 06:07 | |
| oiaohm | Compared to now. | May 08 06:07 |
| Red Hat was no harder to configure than 98. | May 08 06:07 | |
| oiaohm | Even to 98 | May 08 06:07 |
| There was just less hardware that worked. | May 08 06:07 | |
| oiaohm | That was the issue. | May 08 06:07 |
| oiaohm | Basically unless you had some rare combindation of hardware Linux was a paper weight to you. Basically no threat. | May 08 06:08 |
| Not really. | May 08 06:08 | |
| oiaohm | This has changed. | May 08 06:08 |
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| I had some fairly common hardware that worked just fine, Cyrix systems. ha ha | May 08 06:08 | |
| oiaohm | twitter: I lived with it. Printers that would not work. Scanners. | May 08 06:09 |
| HP worked fine. | May 08 06:09 | |
| oiaohm | Even some HP's did not. | May 08 06:09 |
| scsi scanners worked. | May 08 06:09 | |
| oiaohm | Back then. I know I got a HP scanner and printer in 1996 that only started working with Linux in 1999 | May 08 06:09 |
| oiaohm | 2 months latter the printer died. | May 08 06:09 |
| my point is that M$ has had to waste significant effort fighting GNU/Linux even back then. Witness ACPI. | May 08 06:10 | |
| Look how much change for change sake there's been in hardware. | May 08 06:10 | |
| oiaohm | Most of the MS effort back then was angaist the server side. | May 08 06:10 |
| The result is a mess that not even M$ could keep up with. | May 08 06:10 | |
| oiaohm | samba was kicking the nuts out of NT. | May 08 06:10 |
| oiaohm | On scaleablity. | May 08 06:10 |
| Vista is like M$ Word. | May 08 06:11 | |
| It's got so many kludges to work around so much sabotage that it's a miracle it works at all. | May 08 06:11 | |
| oiaohm | Server side attack has not started yet. | May 08 06:11 |
| It won't either because no one is going to set aside stuff that works and is free to scale for Winblows crap. | May 08 06:12 | |
| oiaohm | Once linux is attacking MS on desktop and server we will see some reallly big pain from MS. | May 08 06:12 |
| They did try parking domains and an attack on web servers. The companies that bought into selling you $100/month web pages all bankrupted. | May 08 06:12 | |
| GNU/Linux is already THE option for your desktop. | May 08 06:13 | |
| It has been for a long time. | May 08 06:13 | |
| oiaohm | Business desktop. | May 08 06:13 |
| oiaohm | Its lacking a few things. | May 08 06:13 |
| That too. | May 08 06:13 | |
| like what? | May 08 06:14 | |
| besides M$ Word. ha ha | May 08 06:14 | |
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| oiaohm | Good central mangement of clients. | May 08 06:14 |
| Like what, Xen? | May 08 06:14 | |
| oiaohm | ADS many not be great but its part way there. | May 08 06:14 |
| Red Hat has plenty of client management tools | May 08 06:14 | |
| oiaohm | Redhat is working on freeipa to close the gap on ADS. | May 08 06:15 |
| I've seen them used in computer labs. It's so much easier than Winblows. | May 08 06:15 | |
| Winblows is as painful as you can get, so that's not really an area you can say GNU/Linux lacks. | May 08 06:15 | |
| oiaohm | twitter: there is 1. | May 08 06:15 |
| oiaohm | It will be covered by freeipa.org | May 08 06:16 |
| I'm still waiting for it | May 08 06:16 | |
| GNU/Linux desktop uniformity is also much better than Winblows, which has yet to have a sane /home directory. | May 08 06:16 | |
| oiaohm | http://freeipa.org/page/About | May 08 06:17 |
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| in a business setting, you actually get to see your desktop and settings wherever you log on. | May 08 06:17 | |
| oiaohm | Central server intergration GNU/Linux is also not that great. | May 08 06:17 |
| Can I tell you how painful setting up every Winblows desktop is for users? | May 08 06:17 | |
| oiaohm | cachefs coming in future kernels address a major segement of that. | May 08 06:17 |
| oiaohm | So you don't do it my way from a script in the ADS server twitter | May 08 06:18 |
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| oiaohm | Set up machine connect it to domain and all the software the machine should have gets dumped on it. | May 08 06:18 |
| or you could use LTSP | May 08 06:19 | |
| oiaohm | Same with removing and updating software. | May 08 06:19 |
| eight years ago | May 08 06:19 | |
| oiaohm | LTSP does not work with laptops. | May 08 06:19 |
| oiaohm | What I have does. | May 08 06:19 |
| why not? | May 08 06:19 | |
| oiaohm | They disconnect from network and still want applications of course. | May 08 06:19 |
| updating software is something GNU/Linux distributions have done well for years | May 08 06:19 | |
| oiaohm | Updating yes. | May 08 06:20 |
| and Winblows is still horrible with. | May 08 06:20 | |
| oiaohm | managing what software is on what machine not great. | May 08 06:20 |
| oiaohm | I run something equal to a GNU repo system on windows. | May 08 06:20 |
| Oh come on. How hard can it be to have custom packages on a local repo that configure everything perfectly? | May 08 06:20 | |
| oiaohm | My script looks a machine name. | May 08 06:21 |
| oiaohm | matchs machine name against profile. | May 08 06:21 |
| You can run that on Windows, like I can drive down the street with cinder block tires. | May 08 06:21 | |
| lol | May 08 06:21 | |
| oiaohm | Appies applications that are in profile to machine. | May 08 06:21 |
| oiaohm | Removes any that should not be. | May 08 06:21 |
| oiaohm | Nice central management. | May 08 06:21 |
| that's what package management does | May 08 06:22 | |
| oiaohm | Automatically actives as soon as the machine joins the domain. | May 08 06:22 |
| what is "join the domain"? | May 08 06:22 | |
| oiaohm | I don't have to configure the machine anywhere other than the central server in the domain. | May 08 06:22 |
| oiaohm | This is central management. | May 08 06:22 |
| please don't tell me it's some kind of Samba thing. | May 08 06:23 | |
| oiaohm | No it a ADS design thing Samba cannot do yet. | May 08 06:23 |
| oiaohm | Its group policies. | May 08 06:23 |
| you are using M$ networking? | May 08 06:23 | |
| oiaohm | You asked where the difference is. | May 08 06:23 |
| oiaohm | Close that difference MS networking has nothing. | May 08 06:24 |
| It would probably be easier for you to manage your network by booting a small GNU/Linux distribution to download Windows image files. | May 08 06:24 | |
| oiaohm | No | May 08 06:24 |
| oiaohm | Windows images cause more hell than you can dream. | May 08 06:24 |
| You will still have to go deal with registry settings and other licensing issues on each machine | May 08 06:24 | |
| oiaohm | Nop | May 08 06:24 |
| but that's the non free software world | May 08 06:24 | |
| oiaohm | Volume licence | May 08 06:24 |
| oiaohm | Form of centrally managed. | May 08 06:24 |
| for each vendor? nfw | May 08 06:25 | |
| oiaohm | Gets mess with numbers of vendors. | May 08 06:25 |
| Xen might do it but, you know, that's GNU/Linux | May 08 06:25 | |
| oiaohm | But registry settings and any other alteration can be done central. | May 08 06:25 |
| oiaohm | You can edit each machines registry from the central server. | May 08 06:25 |
| so M$ gets to nuke other vendors from orbit. no thanks | May 08 06:26 | |
| oiaohm | Even samba can edit other windows machine registrys when its central server. | May 08 06:26 |
| oiaohm | Most people have no clue how much a Windows network is designed to be centrally controlled. | May 08 06:26 |
| If this is your magic reason to use Windows, I'm not convinced. Free software is easier to manage than all of that. | May 08 06:26 | |
| I've seen how Windows network management really works. I did it for a bank and it was hell. | May 08 06:27 | |
| oiaohm | I have had people have hell with it. | May 08 06:27 |
| All the design you might want to promise flew out the window when it came to the nitty gritty world of non free software competition. | May 08 06:27 | |
| oiaohm | The thing is supper powerful don't use right bites big time. | May 08 06:28 |
| Like you said, "Gets mess with numbers of vendors." That spoils the whole party because Windows without those vendors is perfectly worthless. | May 08 06:28 | |
| It's non free software hell | May 08 06:29 | |
| oiaohm | When Linux has freeipa to do same management roles like controlling what machines have what applications and what users can use what applications. | May 08 06:29 |
| GNU/Linux already has tools like that. | May 08 06:29 | |
| I could roll my own if they did not. | May 08 06:29 | |
| oiaohm | You have to roll your own to do lots of it still. | May 08 06:30 |
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| That's not hard and I'm sure IBM, Red Hat and others will sell it to you if you don't want to do it yourself. | May 08 06:30 | |
| oiaohm | Lot of GNU/Linux stuff is setup great for a single machine. | May 08 06:30 |
| oiaohm | Redhat building freeipa does that not tell you something. | May 08 06:30 |
| oiaohm | There is a feature hole. | May 08 06:31 |
| Dude, people have been running clusters forever. | May 08 06:31 | |
| oiaohm | cluster are noramally what you call single image machines. | May 08 06:31 |
| oiaohm | So every that they are many machines they are really just a single machine. | May 08 06:31 |
| The tools to configure hundreds or thousands of individual computers in that cluster have been around for a long time. It's not that much different from configuring desktops. | May 08 06:32 | |
| oiaohm | They are different. | May 08 06:32 |
| oiaohm | Clusters have 1000's of machines with exactly the same software on them. | May 08 06:32 |
| oiaohm | I am talking about when you have a network were different machines have to have different software configurations. | May 08 06:32 |
| oiaohm | For different users. | May 08 06:33 |
| or you have two or three different clusters with identical software. You know, one for accounting, one for engineering.... | May 08 06:33 | |
| oiaohm | Tools for that are lacking. | May 08 06:33 |
| oiaohm | freeipa will fill that gap when it gets to version 2. | May 08 06:33 |
| let's see. I've run a debian mirror. If I wanted, I could make an "accounting desktop" meta package that that would set up accountants. | May 08 06:34 | |
| oiaohm | Gap has basically been caused by Linux low desktop uses. | May 08 06:34 |
| this is not rocket science. | May 08 06:34 | |
| oiaohm | What happens when a engineering user need that machine because a engineering maching broke. | May 08 06:34 |
| Lowes has had IBM desktop GNU/Linux for what, five years now? | May 08 06:34 | |
| oiaohm | Magic of ADS | May 08 06:34 |
| bullshit. | May 08 06:35 | |
| oiaohm | Since a enginerring user sat a machine ADS can offer up enginerring software to be installed. | May 08 06:35 |
| oiaohm | That will be removed. | May 08 06:35 |
| oiaohm | When the enginerring user logs out. | May 08 06:35 |
| Why remove it? | May 08 06:35 | |
| oiaohm | This is using ADS to its max most places don't. | May 08 06:35 |
| oiaohm | Because its not normally required on that machine twitter | May 08 06:35 |
| oiaohm | And staying there would be wasteful on licences and the like. | May 08 06:36 |
| For occasional use, it would probably be easier to serve the application over the network anyway. | May 08 06:36 | |
| That's something Windows sucks at. | May 08 06:36 | |
| oiaohm | Not all applications will work that way. | May 08 06:36 |
| oiaohm | Even on Linux. | May 08 06:36 |
| Citrix is the best they can do and it blows | May 08 06:36 | |
| oiaohm | CAD's have hell over network. | May 08 06:36 |
| Well then you apt-get install CAD | May 08 06:37 | |
| five minutes later, your machine is up. | May 08 06:37 | |
| oiaohm | User need root to do that. | May 08 06:37 |
| oiaohm | Or I have to be there. | May 08 06:37 |
| oiaohm | The magic of ADS I don't have to be there. | May 08 06:37 |
| no they don't and no you don't. You can just ssh into it. | May 08 06:37 | |
| oiaohm | The server know the user is allowed. | May 08 06:37 |
| oiaohm | So it does it. | May 08 06:37 |
| All vapor. | May 08 06:38 | |
| oiaohm | ssh into it still requires my time. | May 08 06:38 |
| oiaohm | I run ADS this way twitter | May 08 06:38 |
| What I've described just works already. | May 08 06:38 | |
| oiaohm | What you describe is require me to be there. | May 08 06:38 |
| oiaohm | For some events. | May 08 06:38 |
| only if you don't want your engineers installing cad | May 08 06:38 | |
| oiaohm | Where ADS the server is handing the events. | May 08 06:39 |
| oiaohm | Its a small gap twitter | May 08 06:39 |
| oiaohm | The central management server removes the need for system admin to be there when some things go wrong. | May 08 06:39 |
| sure, it runs itself. ha ha | May 08 06:40 | |
| oiaohm | So work still can be done. | May 08 06:40 |
| oiaohm | Of course it has to be configured twitter | May 08 06:40 |
| Windows is good at making sure people can't get work done for weeks at a time. | May 08 06:40 | |
| viruses, network problems, broken machines. | May 08 06:40 | |
| oiaohm | Supprisingly I don't have that much. | May 08 06:40 |
| *MinceR_ is now known as MinceR | May 08 06:41 | |
| oiaohm | Not a single virus in my networks in 4 years. | May 08 06:41 |
| what 25%? | May 08 06:41 | |
| oiaohm | Last network problem was a dead switch. | May 08 06:41 |
| that's not what I've seen in practice | May 08 06:41 | |
| small firms and large, they must miss your magic. | May 08 06:41 | |
| oiaohm | broken machines not a major issue to productive since users can sit down at any machine and get there applications. | May 08 06:41 |
| oiaohm | It is how well the network is configured. | May 08 06:42 |
| Of course, I've seen that M$ has had some of the same issues on their own campus, so I have a very hard time believing you can do better than them. | May 08 06:42 | |
| oiaohm | I also have what I call generical spares. | May 08 06:42 |
| *DaemonFC smacks twitter with IronPython | May 08 06:42 | |
| oiaohm | LOL | May 08 06:42 |
| "generic spare"? Is that like a general purpose computer before you put Windows on it? | May 08 06:43 | |
| oiaohm | last uni campus I went to was using MS own deployment system. | May 08 06:43 |
| oiaohm | That this is a lemon. | May 08 06:43 |
| oiaohm | this/thing | May 08 06:43 |
| oiaohm | Reason why I use something script based that works. | May 08 06:43 |
| yeah, it deploys Windows. | May 08 06:43 | |
| lemon | May 08 06:44 | |
| oiaohm | ADS core is good. | May 08 06:44 |
| Twitter is sleepy and does not feel like listing to bullshit about how wonderful Windows is. | May 08 06:44 | |
| good night. | May 08 06:44 | |
| oiaohm | There software deployment system where everything must be wrapped in a MSI file is trouble. | May 08 06:44 |
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| DaemonFC | I think the memory use reductions in Windows Display Driver Model 1.1 have more to do with copy restriction than a performance improvement | May 08 06:47 |
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| Omar87 | Guys, can we say that Linux is the most kernel that obeys the POSIX standard? | May 08 07:21 |
| bgtr4 | does linux like posix? | May 08 07:22 |
| Omar87 | bgtr4: afaik, and as far as I've learned, yes it does. | May 08 07:22 |
| DaemonFC | I don't really know if that can be said | May 08 07:23 |
| Omar87 | bgtr4: However, Windows on the other hand doesn't. | May 08 07:23 |
| DaemonFC | nobody ever gets their distribution checked against standards | May 08 07:24 |
| DaemonFC | the line goes "We implement the standards as they make sense" | May 08 07:24 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 07:24 |
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| bgtr4 | i always found funny to read logs of irc of last night when i was drunk | May 08 07:36 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 08 07:39 |
| DaemonFC | Privoxy isn't bad | May 08 07:39 |
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| Omar87 | What is Privoxy? | May 08 08:00 |
| schestowitz | Google it :-D | May 08 08:01 |
| DaemonFC | acts as a local proxy, can filter out ads and all kinds of shit | May 08 08:01 |
| DaemonFC | taakes about 3 megs of RAM | May 08 08:02 |
| DaemonFC | not bad | May 08 08:02 |
| bgtr4 | and is probably capable of substituting ads images with hedgehogs | May 08 08:04 |
| DaemonFC | Your User Agent is: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; .NET CLR 3.5.30729) | May 08 08:05 |
| DaemonFC | whoa | May 08 08:05 |
| bgtr4 | whose | May 08 08:09 |
| schestowitz | New IRC format: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/irc-log-07052009.html | May 08 08:10 |
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| DaemonFC | Your User Agent is: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US) AppleWebKit/528.16 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Safari/528.16 | May 08 08:12 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 08 08:12 |
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| bgtr4 | Your User Agent is: Mozilla/15.2 (compatible; MSIE 12.6; Windows NT 9.3; WOW256; Trident/20.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 5.0.62734) | May 08 08:15 |
| bgtr4 | ^check this out, DaemonFC | May 08 08:16 |
| DaemonFC | uhhhm | May 08 08:16 |
| DaemonFC | k | May 08 08:16 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, Safari is seriously fast | May 08 08:16 |
| bgtr4 | did you clear the cache before checking? | May 08 08:17 |
| DaemonFC | http://tinyurl.com/o5mt5b | May 08 08:17 |
| DaemonFC | quite a bit faster than Firefox | May 08 08:18 |
| DaemonFC | orders of magnitudes faster than IE | May 08 08:18 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roqqnnnFmIY | May 08 08:19 |
| DaemonFC | wtf | May 08 08:19 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 08 08:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axtl8GAKmWU&feature=channel | May 08 08:26 |
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| DaemonFC | hmmm, Safari 4 is nice | May 08 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, looks like the new Mac Mini has a real GPU | May 08 08:34 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft Fragments ODF While Trying to Paint it as “IBM Thing” http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/microsoft-fragments-odf/ | May 08 08:52 |
| zer0c00l | hey schestowitz | May 08 08:53 |
| schestowitz | Yo, what's new? | May 08 08:54 |
| zer0c00l | saw that jupitor broadcasting ,linux fud video and the comments | May 08 08:54 |
| zer0c00l | you would like to see his tweets http://twitter.com/BryanLAS | May 08 08:54 |
| schestowitz | RMS has just told me: "Could you contact him and ask if he would like to bring Gnote closer | May 08 08:55 |
| schestowitz | to the GNU Project?" | May 08 08:55 |
| schestowitz | We should contact Hubet | May 08 08:55 |
| schestowitz | *Hubert | May 08 08:55 |
| zer0c00l | oh | May 08 08:55 |
| schestowitz | He also says: "Actually, the TomTom case is likely to hasten the abandonment of FAT format, which is a good thing." | May 08 08:55 |
| zer0c00l | that guy bryanLAS affiliated with NOVELL? | May 08 08:57 |
| schestowitz | "@hfiguiere: RMS asked me to contact you and ask if you would like to bring Gnote closer to the GNU Project" | May 08 08:58 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: is he?? | May 08 08:58 |
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| zer0c00l | I dont know,but he talked about MONO in that FUD talk | May 08 08:59 |
| zer0c00l | ken likes him? http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/05/deja-vu-all-over-again.html | May 08 09:02 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: Mono talk does not mean he's with Novell | May 08 09:03 |
| schestowitz | I thought you knew about a real connection. | May 08 09:03 |
| schestowitz | I know about the Mono thing. | May 08 09:03 |
| zer0c00l | no, i dont know schestowitz | May 08 09:03 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/05/linux-sucks-fud/comment-page-1/#comment-63187 | May 08 09:03 |
| zer0c00l | those guys doesn't like RMS | May 08 09:03 |
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| toros | hi | May 08 09:14 |
| schestowitz | Hey | May 08 09:16 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: wanna see the video? | May 08 09:17 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz, which one? | May 08 09:17 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTVe-1Edzy0 | May 08 09:17 |
| schestowitz | Arrogant people. | May 08 09:17 |
| toros | schestowitz: I think you misstyped the name in your notice - http://identi.ca/notice/4062811 | May 08 09:18 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz, lunatics | May 08 09:22 |
| schestowitz | We need to have him join forces :-) https://twitter.com/hfiguiere | May 08 09:22 |
| toros | yepp :) | May 08 09:23 |
| toros | identi.ca is much more fun \o/ | May 08 09:23 |
| schestowitz | toros: yes, i started only with identi.ca | May 08 09:27 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: what was the first .net application to be mostly replaced. | May 08 09:31 |
| oiaohm | In the Linux world. | May 08 09:31 |
| oiaohm | its not gnote. | May 08 09:31 |
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| oiaohm | http://beagle-project.org/Main_Page Its beagle with tracker and others. | May 08 09:33 |
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| oiaohm | Basically mono developers have a failure to learn. | May 08 09:34 |
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| toros | by the way, tracker works better than beagle | May 08 09:39 |
| oiaohm | Same is true with gnote. | May 08 09:39 |
| oiaohm | Both beagle and tomboy have the same problems. | May 08 09:40 |
| iwmw | oiaohm: what kind of failure to learn? | May 08 09:40 |
| oiaohm | Beagle got pushed as side for being resource hungry. Tomboy is being pushed a side for the same reasons. Focus has not gone in my the mono developers to fix that iwmw | May 08 09:41 |
| DaemonFC | http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4863/50212588.png | May 08 09:42 |
| iwmw | yeah, it's kinda dumb to develop mono-based apps for notebooks | May 08 09:42 |
| toros | Ohh, I have a nice Windows 7 screenshot: http://toros.hu/server/shots/windows7-blue.png | May 08 09:43 |
| toros | with the nice, new, darkblue theme ;) | May 08 09:43 |
| DaemonFC | more like "If a program becomes unstable, pray you don't have to yank the cord out of the wall to get the system to shut down" | May 08 09:43 |
| DaemonFC | http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/1636/windows7.png | May 08 09:44 |
| DaemonFC | My Windows 7 shot | May 08 09:44 |
| iwmw | is it dead? | May 08 09:44 |
| oiaohm | So you found the XP false advertising. | May 08 09:44 |
| oiaohm | By that it should be impossable to blue screen of death it. | May 08 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7537/donotwantabh.jpg | May 08 09:45 |
| oiaohm | Need a update. | May 08 09:46 |
| oiaohm | For windows 7 | May 08 09:46 |
| toros | clever cats use FreeBSD: http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/i-can-fix-thiz-sorta.jpg | May 08 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6208/37165486.png | May 08 09:46 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Moonlight in the News - http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/microsoft-moonlight-in-the-news/ | May 08 09:47 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 08 09:47 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I think gnote is first of its kind | May 08 09:47 |
| toros | I counted the strings "Microsoft" in an ordinary Novell press release: 12 ;) | May 08 09:47 |
| DaemonFC | you kind of have to accept that any operating system will fail at some point | May 08 09:48 |
| oiaohm | tracker was a clone of beagle. | May 08 09:48 |
| oiaohm | Its not the first. | May 08 09:48 |
| oiaohm | Its the secound. | May 08 09:48 |
| toros | oiaohm: It's not really a clone | May 08 09:48 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: is it diseased candidate of vista7? | May 08 09:48 |
| oiaohm | Only major difference tracker developers went back to scractch and rebuilt where gnote ported. | May 08 09:48 |
| toros | It's just another tracker client | May 08 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz? | May 08 09:48 |
| *toros hates this kind of stuff :( | May 08 09:48 | |
| toros | I mean tracker clients | May 08 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | That was a leaked Escrow build | May 08 09:49 |
| oiaohm | http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/ << That tracker | May 08 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | whoa | May 08 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | damn | May 08 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | this is minimal | May 08 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 08 09:49 |
| oiaohm | It did not exist before beagle toros. | May 08 09:49 |
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| DaemonFC | heh | May 08 09:52 |
| DaemonFC | I stripped down Windows XP even smaller than WinFLP | May 08 09:52 |
| oiaohm | Personally I expect gnome do to go the same path. | May 08 09:52 |
| toros | MacOS X had some kind of built-in tracker client | May 08 09:52 |
| toros | spotlight maybe? | May 08 09:52 |
| oiaohm | .net developers map out how the application should work. Then have c or c++ programmer make a clone. | May 08 09:53 |
| oiaohm | That works. | May 08 09:53 |
| oiaohm | MacOS X I think had the feature first. | May 08 09:53 |
| toros | I like python apps :) | May 08 09:54 |
| toros | they work just perfect | May 08 09:55 |
| toros | okay, it's not the best choice, where you need performance | May 08 09:55 |
| toros | but in most cases, it's fast enough | May 08 09:55 |
| toros | and I have very good experiences with python stuff | May 08 09:56 |
| oiaohm | python is a very secure platform to embed in an app. | May 08 09:56 |
| toros | and they evolve very fast | May 08 09:56 |
| toros | maybe because python source code is very easy to read | May 08 09:57 |
| toros | so it's easy to join a project | May 08 09:57 |
| oiaohm | http://shed-skin.blogspot.com/ is reallly handy at times when you need performance in some sections of python. | May 08 09:57 |
| toros | so the projects can involve new contributors pretty easy | May 08 09:58 |
| oiaohm | Google is workign on making the default python engine at least 5 times faster. | May 08 09:59 |
| oiaohm | Really the speed difference between mono and python could be reduced to nothing. | May 08 10:00 |
| oiaohm | Thinking that python also contains a bytecode it uses on disk. | May 08 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/data/systems/details/27409.html | May 08 10:00 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi All: | May 08 10:18 |
| MinceR | j0 | May 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | MSN Direct, MSDN Magazine and Other Unnamed Microsoft Divisions Hit by Layoffs < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/msn-direct-msdn-magazine-layoffs/ > | May 08 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | read about it already | May 08 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | they're not laying off from their profitable divisions | May 08 10:21 |
| schestowitz | Yup | May 08 10:21 |
| schestowitz | That's OK | May 08 10:21 |
| DaemonFC | the stuff they're laying people off from has never turned a profit | May 08 10:21 |
| schestowitz | I.e. most divisions | May 08 10:21 |
| schestowitz | They spread their units to pretend to be successful | May 08 10:21 |
| schestowitz | Ask Microsoft'journalists | May 08 10:21 |
| schestowitz | They put in the basket chunks to balance the losses | May 08 10:22 |
| _Hicham_ | hopefully they will lay off their profitable staff | May 08 10:23 |
| _Hicham_ | like Novell did | May 08 10:23 |
| _Hicham_ | to speed up their death | May 08 10:24 |
| _Hicham_ | I am sick of hearing people talking of Microsoft, aka Microshit | May 08 10:24 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : there is no warning in BN when using IE | May 08 10:26 |
| _Hicham_ | Last time I visited BN with IE I didn't get any warning | May 08 10:27 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft is laying off the people that should have already been gone recession or not | May 08 10:32 |
| DaemonFC | like a year or two ago | May 08 10:32 |
| DaemonFC | heh, I managed to get rid of half the files in an XP ISO | May 08 10:33 |
| DaemonFC | without even deleting anything really important | May 08 10:34 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I thought it was funny that the EU made Microsoft release Windows Edition N citing that people wanted choice and then nobody bought it | May 08 10:36 |
| DaemonFC | the only time I've ever even seen it was when Paul Thurott dug it out to poke at it | May 08 10:37 |
| DaemonFC | the EU is kind of ridiculous, it reminds me of the communists taking over private businesses | May 08 10:37 |
| DaemonFC | and running their product line by committee | May 08 10:37 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : check out ReactOS, it runs only with 24MB of Ram | May 08 10:38 |
| DaemonFC | I do think Microsoft needs to be dealt with, but the hypocrisy is pretty thick | May 08 10:38 |
| DaemonFC | they refuse to do anything about Apple's stranglehold/monopoly on several markets | May 08 10:39 |
| DaemonFC | I mean seriously, how hard would it be for the EU to say "Hey, Microsoft, you need to make IE and Windows Media Player optional components and provide an uninstaller for them"? | May 08 10:40 |
| DaemonFC | that sounds pretty reasonable | May 08 10:40 |
| DaemonFC | instead they went the governmentware route | May 08 10:40 |
| DaemonFC | I'm fairly sure that the only people using IE or Windows Media Player are doing it because it's what is there and they don't know any better | May 08 10:41 |
| DaemonFC | so the EU really undermined it's own position with Windows Edition N | May 08 10:42 |
| DaemonFC | You can kind of tell that Windows is the product of government manipulation | May 08 10:43 |
| DaemonFC | I think it's why Microsoft has waited so long to give away free antivirus, is because the situation could go Internet Explorer all over again | May 08 10:44 |
| DaemonFC | http://news.cnet.com/Flawed-Symantec-update-cripples-Chinese-PCs/2100-1002_3-6186271.html | May 08 10:46 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 08 10:46 |
| iwmw | wtf... intel is putting its' shitty gfx accelerator into processor | May 08 10:47 |
| iwmw | this year | May 08 10:47 |
| iwmw | http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/smaller_better_faster_intel_hit_with_32nm_cpus_this_year | May 08 10:48 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the netbook is just a way to regurgitate obsolete hardware | May 08 10:48 |
| DaemonFC | in case you didn't notice | May 08 10:48 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft in Trouble with the Law Again < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/microsoft-trouble-with-the-law/ > | May 08 10:49 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: open article in ie | May 08 10:50 |
| iwmw | when they will just put bg into jail and leave it that way? | May 08 10:50 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Like Bush was going to do anything about tax havens? | May 08 10:51 |
| DaemonFC | This is really the first real chance to do something about them since 2000 | May 08 10:51 |
| DaemonFC | the timing sucks, but it's better now than never | May 08 10:51 |
| DaemonFC | *shrugs* | May 08 10:51 |
| DaemonFC | I really didn't see how IE is any more obnoxious in 7 than in Vista | May 08 10:55 |
| DaemonFC | or XP | May 08 10:55 |
| DaemonFC | they didn't give any specific reason why they think it's acting worse | May 08 10:55 |
| DaemonFC | actually, if you turn IE off in XP or Vista it only deletes icons | May 08 10:57 |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/mpaa-teachers-should-video-record-tv-screens-not-rip-dvds.ars Define insantity. | May 08 10:57 |
| DaemonFC | but in 7, it deletes iexplore.exe | May 08 10:57 |
| DaemonFC | so you can't even run it | May 08 10:57 |
| DaemonFC | someone should video tape MPAA executives being waterboarded | May 08 10:59 |
| DaemonFC | that migh actually be entertaining | May 08 10:59 |
| oiaohm | Does it mean every recording in a movie theather is legal. | May 08 10:59 |
| oiaohm | Or at home. | May 08 10:59 |
| DaemonFC | when they know they're wrong, they pull shit like this out | May 08 11:00 |
| oiaohm | It a slipperly slope. | May 08 11:00 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 08 11:00 |
| DaemonFC | XP shows it's age...... | May 08 11:00 |
| DaemonFC | "When you insert a ZIP(R) disk......" | May 08 11:00 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 11:00 |
| DaemonFC | when is the last time I saw one of those? | May 08 11:01 |
| DaemonFC | Oh yes, on my uncle's Motorola Mac | May 08 11:01 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: I noticed a thing Microsoft is saying is a feature in 7 that smells like copy restriction/DRM | May 08 11:02 |
| DaemonFC | they were bragging that 7 does not need to shadow the GDI+ resources a displayed window takes in the system memory now | May 08 11:03 |
| DaemonFC | it may well use a little bit less RAM | May 08 11:03 |
| DaemonFC | but it sounds like the primary purpose was to get that out of a spot where a user could dump an unencrypted video stream out to disk | May 08 11:04 |
| DaemonFC | again, when they improve something, there's an ulterior motive | May 08 11:04 |
| DaemonFC | but it struck me that even when you use compositing in Linux, it behaves much more like Vista in that regard | May 08 11:05 |
| DaemonFC | than like 7 | May 08 11:05 |
| DaemonFC | it's something that *should* be fixed, but Microsoft did it for DRM purposes is what I'm getting at | May 08 11:06 |
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| oiaohm | In what way DaemonFC higher rate of crashes? | May 08 10:49 |
| DaemonFC | frankly I think that the return on investment is pretty minimal even if the people working on OpenGL, Compiz Fusion, and Metacity were really all that organized | May 08 10:49 |
| DaemonFC | no, it actually makes for less glitches | May 08 10:49 |
| oiaohm | Depends on video card driver. I guess Nvidia. | May 08 10:49 |
| DaemonFC | oddly enough, ATI is the only one that has WDDM 1.1 and DirectX 11 drivers at this point | May 08 10:50 |
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| schestowitz | The EU commission still refuses my access to docs. Shall I give up? I'm about to do about the the Zuck clan. | May 08 11:11 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : fuck DirectX | May 08 11:13 |
| _Hicham_ | have you ever worked with it? | May 08 11:13 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm, my XP is 2.16 gb installed | May 08 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | that's not horrible I suppose | May 08 11:14 |
| oiaohm | How many applications are in that. | May 08 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | I just cut out the obvious fluff | May 08 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | no MS Agent, no stupid Search Dog | May 08 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | no Outlook Express | May 08 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | no Windows Media Player | May 08 11:15 |
| iwmw | did you remove games? | May 08 11:15 |
| oiaohm | I like the Search Dog | May 08 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 08 11:15 |
| oiaohm | Something I was thinking of porting. | May 08 11:15 |
| oiaohm | More like cloning. | May 08 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | I also removed internationalization shit | May 08 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | and other languages | May 08 11:15 |
| oiaohm | So still way behind on features compared to a Linux install. | May 08 11:15 |
| iwmw | so pure wxp took 2.16? | May 08 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | well, I could have yanked out lots more | May 08 11:16 |
| schestowitz | Intel's Moblin Turns to Ballnux http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/moblin-turns-to-ballnux/ | May 08 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | but I didn't | May 08 11:16 |
| iwmw | it's unpacked size of mandriva one livecd | May 08 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | you can remove IE, and it's rendering engine | May 08 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | that's a good 170 megs | May 08 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | but then a lot of third party apps will fail spectacularly | May 08 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | so you'll have to install IE anyway | May 08 11:16 |
| schestowitz | what is this process called ld-linux.so.2 ? | May 08 11:17 |
| DaemonFC | oh, got rid of Windows Movie Maker | May 08 11:17 |
| schestowitz | It has been hogging my system for days | May 08 11:17 |
| iwmw | schestowitz: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=754944 | May 08 11:18 |
| DaemonFC | there's also a vLite | May 08 11:19 |
| DaemonFC | I've had some interesting results with that too | May 08 11:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Internet/7900.html | May 08 11:21 |
| DaemonFC | Panda Security launches world’s first free cloud-based antivirus | May 08 11:21 |
| oiaohm | How | May 08 11:22 |
| oiaohm | Would not clamav be first. | May 08 11:22 |
| DaemonFC | "Panda Cloud Antivirus includes local and remote antivirus, anti-spyware, anti-rootkit, heuristics and goodware cache, while only consuming an average of 17 MB of RAM and 50 percent of the PC performance impact as compared to the industry average." | May 08 11:22 |
| oiaohm | Yep taht is abotu right. | May 08 11:23 |
| oiaohm | o boy. | May 08 11:23 |
| iwmw | is panda freeware? | May 08 11:23 |
| DaemonFC | not their normal product | May 08 11:24 |
| iwmw | wtf... "It is extremely light as all the work is done in the cloud." | May 08 11:27 |
| benkai | schestowitz: some days ago I read of a problem downloading videos from youtube (it was when you helped me to find a Ballmer video (RH users owe us money). Answer: It works just fine here from Firefox on Linux using the DownloadHelper extension (installes an animated button in the Nav Toolbar) | May 08 11:28 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 08 11:28 |
| schestowitz | I had to change too | May 08 11:28 |
| schestowitz | It still doesn't work sometimes | May 08 11:28 |
| DaemonFC | I'm skeptical of this "cloud antivirus" | May 08 11:28 |
| schestowitz | Ah | May 08 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Stupid acrobat. POS | May 08 11:30 |
| benkai | schestowitz: I don't remember DownloadHelper failing on me ever, but did't use it much recently. All youtube vids which I saw recently had official download buttons from youtube provided. | May 08 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Let's see if my session blow up for killing this process | May 08 11:31 |
| schestowitz | fingers crossed | May 08 11:31 |
| schestowitz | That was alright | May 08 11:32 |
| schestowitz | Remember: don't use Acrobat | May 08 11:32 |
| schestowitz | I installed it for annotation and stuff. Acrobat-only 'features' | May 08 11:32 |
| benkai | schestowitz: Of course, never use it. You can use the pdf download extension in firefox to download pdfs (prompts you if you want to download after clicking any pdf link) so you can view it with xpdf, kpdf or evince | May 08 11:33 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : do u use acrobat? | May 08 11:33 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | May 08 11:33 |
| _Hicham_ | who is still using acrobat? | May 08 11:33 |
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| _Hicham_ | ur on KDE right? there is the okular | May 08 11:34 |
| _Hicham_ | I never liked acrobat | May 08 11:34 |
| _Hicham_ | even on Windows | May 08 11:34 |
| DaemonFC | I also deleted the entire 16-bit compatibility subsystem :P | May 08 11:34 |
| _Hicham_ | Foxit Reader have now a working version for Linux | May 08 11:34 |
| _Hicham_ | acrobat now have 29Mb without any document open | May 08 11:36 |
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| _Hicham_ | Adobe should review its Reader | May 08 11:37 |
| _Hicham_ | it is getting bloated and slow with every release | May 08 11:37 |
| iwmw | DaemonFC: that's pretty lollous how anyone can trust the closed source proggy that shares all your files to the "cloud" XD | May 08 11:37 |
| toros | is there a free and open source pdf reader for windows? | May 08 11:38 |
| iwmw | schestowitz: you could replace that file with lsb package | May 08 11:39 |
| iwmw | pdf for windows is payware | May 08 11:39 |
| benkai | toros: Various: you can install the KDE4 installer for win32 and maybe you can install kpdf using it | May 08 11:40 |
| benkai | toros: or you can install cygwin from cygwin.com and use it to install a Cygwin X-Server for Windows and xpdf, kpdf or whatever for it, the new cygwin 1.7 beta has lots of packages! | May 08 11:41 |
| toros | benkai: not for me, I don't use Windows :) | May 08 11:41 |
| benkai | toros: glad you are! Me at the moment neither! | May 08 11:42 |
| iwmw | sure, i forgot about kde for windows even though i have it instsalled at home | May 08 11:42 |
| benkai | another possiblity is to use a Linux VM (in Virtualbox) or use a Colinux distribution on Windows :) | May 08 11:43 |
| toros | just my co-worker has problems with the Adobe PDF Reader | May 08 11:43 |
| iwmw | there are other free pdf readers but closed source | May 08 11:44 |
| toros | so I thought there's an easy (and free) sollution for the problem | May 08 11:44 |
| toros | but then she will get a Foxit Reader :) | May 08 11:44 |
| toros | by the way, I had very good experiences with Windows 7... | May 08 11:46 |
| toros | It's crap :D | May 08 11:46 |
| schestowitz | hehe. Do a Google search for zuck's full name.. ;-) almost top result. | May 08 11:46 |
| toros | so we still don't have to affraid of it :) | May 08 11:46 |
| toros | which is a good news for a Free Software activist like me | May 08 11:47 |
| toros | It looks nice, but for example Fedora 11 looks better | May 08 11:47 |
| toros | and they still have this crap start menu with lots of icons | May 08 11:47 |
| schestowitz | Vista7 will teach people that MS can make it right even the second time around | May 08 11:48 |
| toros | installing a software is still pain, and uninstalling takes still very long time | May 08 11:48 |
| oiaohm | Vista 7 is not right. | May 08 11:48 |
| toros | and you still need to reboot after installing some software | May 08 11:48 |
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| toros | I think, now _every_ major desktop Linux-distribution is better | May 08 11:51 |
| toros | and they won't have new OS in the next 3 years | May 08 11:51 |
| toros | so technically, it's easy to compete with it | May 08 11:52 |
| toros | they just have their market share now, nothing more | May 08 11:52 |
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| benkai | btw, as a former suse employee (Hovsepian and Ballmer togeter was really the start of the end for me), I want to say something: opensuse is really obsolete, Ubunutu 9.04 is (or maybe, "can" at least be) really amazing! (You've got to try it!) | May 08 11:55 |
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| schestowitz | brb | May 08 12:05 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 8 12:09:09 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | May 08 12:09 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged] | May 08 12:09 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 | May 08 12:09 | |
| -ChanServ-You are not authorized to perform this operation. | May 08 12:09 | |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | May 08 12:09 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | May 08 12:09 | |
| DaemonFC | http://whyfirefoxisblocked.wordpress.com/ | May 08 12:12 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 08 12:12 |
| DaemonFC | making fun of that guy that had whyfirefoxisblocked.com a couple years ago | May 08 12:12 |
| schestowitz | hhee | May 08 12:15 |
| schestowitz | At first I thought it's the same due starting a blog | May 08 12:15 |
| _Hicham_ | vive Firefox | May 08 12:17 |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla did a great job | May 08 12:17 |
| _Hicham_ | Firefox will always dominate | May 08 12:17 |
| *liberfiasco is now known as libervisco | May 08 12:18 | |
| _Hicham_ | because it is the only useful Web Browser | May 08 12:18 |
| _Hicham_ | with the largest community | May 08 12:18 |
| _Hicham_ | I hate closed source programs | May 08 12:18 |
| DaemonFC | http://vista.blorge.com/2009/05/07/microsoft-rebrands-anti-piracy-technology/ | May 08 12:19 |
| schestowitz | Jonathan Zuck < http://www.imdb.de/name/nm1151848/ > | May 08 12:21 |
| schestowitz | WTF? | May 08 12:21 |
| iwmw | DaemonFC: what a nice page about firefox blocked XD | May 08 12:22 |
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| DaemonFC | adblock plus is kind of weak anyway | May 08 12:25 |
| DaemonFC | Privoxy works with any browser | May 08 12:25 |
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| trmanco | chromium seems a good piece of software too | May 08 12:33 |
| trmanco | I just don't like the license | May 08 12:33 |
| _Hicham_ | what don't u like in the license trmanco? | May 08 12:36 |
| trmanco | Not really a BSD fan | May 08 12:36 |
| trmanco | it's BSD right? | May 08 12:36 |
| *trmanco checks it's license again | May 08 12:36 | |
| schestowitz | UK-IPO Approves Software Patent as Microsoft and its Lobbies Pressure for Software Patents in EU < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/new-uk-sw-patent/ > | May 08 12:36 |
| trmanco | yeah | May 08 12:37 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: think of it as community/commercial edition | May 08 12:37 |
| trmanco | BSD -> http://code.google.com/chromium/terms.html | May 08 12:37 |
| schestowitz | Chrome+Chromium+the 'good' stuff (proprietary) | May 08 12:37 |
| schestowitz | Like Android | May 08 12:37 |
| trmanco | I like Chromium/Chrome | May 08 12:37 |
| schestowitz | About 70% of which is 'open' | May 08 12:37 |
| trmanco | but the license could have been friendlier | May 08 12:38 |
| DaemonFC | http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=15782 | May 08 12:41 |
| _Hicham_ | I still prefer plain old firefox | May 08 12:42 |
| _Hicham_ | never liked chrome | May 08 12:43 |
| _Hicham_ | tried it on Windows, but I wasn't impressed | May 08 12:43 |
| _Hicham_ | went back immediately to Firefox | May 08 12:43 |
| schestowitz | Google CEO to stay on Apple board < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/24909/1054/ > | May 08 12:44 |
| schestowitz | So weird. Yesterday I made only 2 posts in BN and traffic was nonetheless very high. awstats for yesterday: 7256 visits, 34195 pages, 268422 hits, 6.15 GB (excluding bots) | May 08 12:47 |
| trmanco | safari, no way | May 08 12:51 |
| schestowitz | MS could be lobbying to make this so because it wants to squeeze Google: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/08/eu_wants_data_breach_law/ | May 08 12:51 |
| trmanco | _Hicham_, the Windows 2.x version is slow as crap... I use a developer version, it's slow from time to time, maybe because of some problem with dns prefetching, it certainly isn't ready, but 1.x is stable | May 08 12:52 |
| schestowitz | Google's email goes titsup (again) < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/08/gmail_down/ > Why not a word when Hotmail is down??? | May 08 12:52 |
| trmanco | but I'll just stay with Firefox and Gecko based software | May 08 12:52 |
| _Hicham_ | Gecko can't be replaced that easy | May 08 12:53 |
| _Hicham_ | Gnome is trying to move away from Gecko, but it is not that easy | May 08 12:53 |
| _Hicham_ | Epiphany-Webkit crashes a lot | May 08 12:53 |
| schestowitz | Attack on rights: "Ireland bucks trend with anti-blasphemy law" http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/08/feck_it/ | May 08 12:54 |
| trmanco | ubuntu shiped Epiphany with Gecko | May 08 12:57 |
| DaemonFC | well god damn it | May 08 13:01 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 13:01 |
| toros | Epiphany FTW \o/ | May 08 13:02 |
| toros | it's my favorite browser | May 08 13:02 |
| schestowitz | Spinola extreme: Will Microsoft Use Google To Boost Its Case In Front Of EC? < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-will-microsoft-use-google-to-boost-its-case-infront-of-the-eu/ > | May 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | So it says they can try to say that IE is a good thing because it fights Google | May 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2004/03/15/SunnyBoy | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | "In 1997, as a result of signing a consulting contract with Netscape, I | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | was subject to a vicious, deeply personal extended attack by Microsoft | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | in which they tried to destroy my career and took lethal action | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | against a small struggling company because my wife worked there. It | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | was a sideshow of a sideshow of the great campaign to bury Netscape | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | and I’m sure the executives have forgotten; but I haven’t. I should | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | tell that story here sometime so that should my readers discern an | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | attitude problem regarding Redmond, it ain’t because I work at Sun. | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | Also, it has a funny ending." | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | I never speak to Bray because he doesn't seem like a most amicable person. Also, I doubt he wishes to talk about anything which he did not write about back then. | May 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | It's already in our Wiki. | May 08 13:06 |
| trmanco | toros, is does have some nice addons | May 08 13:08 |
| trmanco | :) | May 08 13:08 |
| trmanco | low memory usage AFAIK | May 08 13:08 |
| DaemonFC | I cut 378 megs out of the ISO image for Windows XP | May 08 13:08 |
| *DaemonFC went back and trimmed a little more | May 08 13:08 | |
| schestowitz | Girl Arrested after Cursing on 911 Call < http://arkansasmatters.com/content/news/weirdnews/fulltext?cid=219041 > Yes, I know it's old...... | May 08 13:09 |
| DaemonFC | leaving 240 megs not counting a few drivers I need | May 08 13:10 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 13:10 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: IDG benchmark says Vista 7 is as fat as Vista? | May 08 13:10 |
| schestowitz | Your experiences say....? | May 08 13:10 |
| schestowitz | [sure it depends on specs] | May 08 13:10 |
| schestowitz | Hhee. | May 08 13:10 |
| DaemonFC | meh, there's a few ways of gauging performance | May 08 13:10 |
| schestowitz | Let's put both on a quad core PC and say it's all fine :-) | May 08 13:10 |
| DaemonFC | overall I'd say it's the same as Vista | May 08 13:11 |
| schestowitz | OK | May 08 13:11 |
| schestowitz | As expected | May 08 13:11 |
| schestowitz | Others measured it too | May 08 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | the interface is perfkier and uses less RAM | May 08 13:11 |
| schestowitz | MS used shills I thin | May 08 13:11 |
| schestowitz | *think | May 08 13:11 |
| schestowitz | They measured things like networ throughput | May 08 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | but they've compensated for that by bloating and slowing down other things | May 08 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | I'd call it a wash | May 08 13:11 |
| schestowitz | Measure the wrong thing -- classic strategy | May 08 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | *perkier | May 08 13:11 |
| schestowitz | Show graphs | May 08 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | most users will say it is faster because it feels faster | May 08 13:12 |
| schestowitz | It looks like Vista | May 08 13:12 |
| schestowitz | Aero and all | May 08 13:12 |
| schestowitz | New name, more lies and bribes to bloggers... | May 08 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | well, gaming performance is the same plus or minus a few percent | May 08 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | out of box it has better SATA/RAID drivers | May 08 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | but you can add that to Vista with a driver package from Intel or Nvidia | May 08 13:13 |
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| DaemonFC | people never bother to go find proper drivers, and the ones that came with Vista or XP or whatever *will* work | May 08 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | so what they're doing is benchmarking the ones that come with Vista that may be from 2006 | May 08 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | with ones in Windows 7 from 2009 | May 08 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | and the driver could have been revised a dozen times | May 08 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | so their benchmark is flawed | May 08 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | the proper thing to do would be to go download the latest chipset drivers from the manufacturer, install them in Vista, THEN compare Vista's performance to Windows 7 | May 08 13:16 |
| DaemonFC | if they did that, the difference would be negligible even in areas like disk throughput where they're seeing Windows 7 ahead by 10-15% | May 08 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | that's the difference between a 1.0 driver and 3 years later | May 08 13:17 |
| toros | benchmarks don't have to do anything we the reallity | May 08 13:17 |
| toros | *with the... | May 08 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | same with video performance | May 08 13:17 |
| schestowitz | Well, there's wiggling room | May 08 13:18 |
| DaemonFC | the wa to benchmark that would be to use the latest beta drivers for Vista | May 08 13:18 |
| toros | maybe game benchmarks show the game performance correctly | May 08 13:18 |
| DaemonFC | compared to whatever they have for 7 | May 08 13:18 |
| DaemonFC | cause that's what they're basing their Win7 driver on | May 08 13:18 |
| toros | but responsibilty, and multitasking performance can't be really measured with tests | May 08 13:18 |
| schestowitz | In general, when companies enter a scientific arena, there are lies | May 08 13:18 |
| schestowitz | Phrama is one example | May 08 13:18 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The difference between Nvidia 182 and 185 Beta can be between 6-15% in some games | May 08 13:19 |
| DaemonFC | that's larger than the difference between Win7 and Vista will be | May 08 13:19 |
| DaemonFC | that's why the release notes for most games hound users to get the latest drivers | May 08 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | it's like a free performance upgrade for the hardware you already have | May 08 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | though if you wait for the WHQL driver, you're always going to be 6-8 months behind | May 08 13:21 |
| DaemonFC | (The ones that come down the Windows Update pipe) | May 08 13:21 |
| DaemonFC | I think WHQL is more about how much money you've paid Microsoft to sign off on it | May 08 13:22 |
| DaemonFC | than how good or bad the driver is | May 08 13:22 |
| DaemonFC | that's just from using both signed and unsigned drivers | May 08 13:23 |
| DaemonFC | brb | May 08 13:23 |
| schestowitz | Verbally abuse someone, go to prison. "Prosecutors Want To Give Lori Drew 3 Years In Jail For Symbolic Reasons" < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090507/0402344779.shtml > | May 08 13:24 |
| schestowitz | In real capitalism, failed businesses die, but not in the United States. http://techdirt.com/articles/20090507/0355164778.shtml | May 08 13:25 |
| bgtr4 | DaemonFC, as good as i know you don't pay for whql certification | May 08 13:26 |
| bgtr4 | but rather lose time to get it | May 08 13:26 |
| trmanco | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2009-May/005713.html | May 08 13:27 |
| schestowitz | Notice That Murdoch Is Only Talking About Charging For Content... Not Giving People A Reason To Buy < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090507/1037234781.shtml > | May 08 13:28 |
| trmanco | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2009-May/005716.html | May 08 13:28 |
| schestowitz | Thanks | May 08 13:29 |
| trmanco | np | May 08 13:31 |
| trmanco | lol -> http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/alpha/9509.1/0006.html | May 08 13:36 |
| trmanco | "It's a bird.. | May 08 13:36 |
| trmanco | It's a plane.. | May 08 13:36 |
| trmanco | No, it's KernelMan, faster than a speeding bullet, to your rescue. | May 08 13:36 |
| trmanco | Doing new kernel versions in under 5 seconds flat.. " | May 08 13:36 |
| DaemonFC | bgtr4: Yeah, you do pay Microsoft to sign those drivers | May 08 13:37 |
| DaemonFC | cause you bought the device from the company that in turn pays Microsoft to sign the drivers | May 08 13:37 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Windows 7 will actually take up about 25 gigs or so off the bat | May 08 13:38 |
| DaemonFC | no matter which version you have | May 08 13:39 |
| DaemonFC | cause it installs features that aren't in the version you paid for in case you use Windows Anytime Upgrade | May 08 13:39 |
| oiaohm | That is larger than the adverage Linux install. | May 08 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu Makes Novell’s Mono a “Master Of The Universe” (MOTU) < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/ubuntu-mono-motu/ > | May 08 13:39 |
| DaemonFC | part of that is cause of Volume Shadow Service | May 08 13:39 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | May 08 13:40 | |
| schestowitz | trmanco: "Thu, 14 Sep 1995 16:00:57 +0300 " | May 08 13:40 |
| trmanco | yeah | May 08 13:40 |
| DaemonFC | I already was saying earlier that Ubuntu is a meaningless Debian fork designed to place control under a company with ambitions to take on Red Hat and Novell | May 08 13:41 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-07-023-35-NW-BZ-0000 "How nice of Mr. Greenspan to testify before Congress about how importing cheap labor could help suppress wages in technology in the U.S." | May 08 13:42 |
| DaemonFC | Canonical (Mark Shuttleworth) has been bleeding cash on this for nearly 5 years | May 08 13:42 |
| DaemonFC | you don't go into business to lose money | May 08 13:42 |
| schestowitz | They have a revenue of $20ml | May 08 13:42 |
| schestowitz | What are the expenses? | May 08 13:42 |
| schestowitz | Shuttlewotth might as well burn this money | May 08 13:42 |
| DaemonFC | Well, since it's not publically traded, there's no telling what their real Profit and Loss report is | May 08 13:42 |
| schestowitz | He'll get some recognition; he can't take the money to his grave, obviously | May 08 13:43 |
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| DaemonFC | cause they don't have to tell anyone except maybe in the form of filing their taxes? | May 08 13:43 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: NYT said 10mil | May 08 13:43 |
| schestowitz | *20mil | May 08 13:43 |
| DaemonFC | no, they're mistaken | May 08 13:43 |
| schestowitz | I assume MarkS told this to Ahelee Vance | May 08 13:43 |
| schestowitz | They're like friends... both from SA | May 08 13:43 |
| DaemonFC | I'm almost sure that's the money Shuttleworth has put into the Foundation "reserve" | May 08 13:43 |
| DaemonFC | I don't trust them | May 08 13:44 |
| schestowitz | Haha. Dreamers.. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-07-023-35-NW-BZ-0001 "that's what they call the Golden Rule:those with the most Gold make the rules.(usually as they go along) " | May 08 13:44 |
| schestowitz | "we've always had a Government in bed with big business,but now they're happily married. the Election of President Obama is a move towards a more representative government that does what is best for ALL Americans, not just big business/the Wealthy. will it work? that remains to be seen...." | May 08 13:44 |
| schestowitz | I guess he didn't pay attention then... BSA|MAFIAA enter the DOJ | May 08 13:44 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, we've just got a better bullshit peddler I'm afraid | May 08 13:45 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-07-023-35-NW-BZ-0003 "Did you by any chance, miss the over 3 billion Obama has given out or reserved for big corporations? I love these poor people who are blinded by slick style, a lying media, and ignoring of facts. " | May 08 13:45 |
| schestowitz | No... no... OBAMMA loves thy | May 08 13:45 |
| DaemonFC | asks his masters what token gestures he's allowed to make | May 08 13:45 |
| schestowitz | OBAMAA cares for the small people... :-) | May 08 13:45 |
| *zer0c00l has quit ("reboot") | May 08 13:46 | |
| schestowitz | "The best news that ever happened to a business baffoon and cheater has been Obama. Not only does he bail them out, he takes the company over!! Sure he fired a CEO, only to put the crooks in Congress in his place!" | May 08 13:46 |
| DaemonFC | I only voted for him cause the thought of Suzie Homemakerbecoming president after John McCain died scared me worse | May 08 13:46 |
| schestowitz | These are responses to: IT Salary Levels, 2004-2009 < http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.php/12297_3819081 > | May 08 13:46 |
| schestowitz | See how stagnant it is, despite inflation | May 08 13:46 |
| schestowitz | This has gone on for decades I hear | May 08 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Wages degrade, but inflation makes it so | May 08 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Less money for the peons | May 08 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Funny thing about this out of all the money that has been given out by different presidents. | May 08 13:47 |
| DaemonFC | the Republicans threw that election by nominating a pair that had nothig in common and were both unelectable | May 08 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Obama looks like one of the first to get it paid back. | May 08 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Like what happened with post WW1 sanctions from the Anglo-alliance | May 08 13:47 |
| DaemonFC | well, it can never be paid back | May 08 13:47 |
| DaemonFC | one of the reasons we rebelled was because of the central bank | May 08 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Simple reason while they owe govement money for bailing themselfs out the CEO cannot pay themselves bonuses. | May 08 13:48 |
| DaemonFC | we wanted nothing to do with it | May 08 13:48 |
| DaemonFC | then set up our own in 1913 | May 08 13:48 |
| DaemonFC | been slaves to it ever since | May 08 13:48 |
| DaemonFC | no, it's because of the Federal Reserve that all money is counterfeit | May 08 13:49 |
| DaemonFC | and there's more debt than there is money | May 08 13:49 |
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| DaemonFC | if the US government seized every dollar in circulation...........from everyone | May 08 13:50 |
| DaemonFC | and used it all to pay off debt | May 08 13:50 |
| DaemonFC | they'd still be in debt | May 08 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Sabayon 4.1 looks like a great one from a small group of devs: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/sabayon-4-1.html | May 08 13:50 |
| DaemonFC | the same is true of Canada | May 08 13:50 |
| DaemonFC | and the UK | May 08 13:50 |
| DaemonFC | and any system with a central bank | May 08 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Wait | May 08 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Canada? | May 08 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Please say more. | May 08 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Countries keep their figures out of public eyes | May 08 13:51 |
| DaemonFC | the central banking system in Canada has done the same thing to them | May 08 13:51 |
| schestowitz | What is debt/capita in CA? | May 08 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Its not every system with a central back. | May 08 13:52 |
| DaemonFC | it's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors and accounting tricks | May 08 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Just most. | May 08 13:52 |
| schestowitz | CA has natural resources, so it will be fine. Like Russia... | May 08 13:52 |
| DaemonFC | but yes, they are unbelievably fucked over as well | May 08 13:52 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: what is CA's national debt? | May 08 13:52 |
| schestowitz | What about Germany? | May 08 13:52 |
| schestowitz | I google for answers, but nada | May 08 13:52 |
| schestowitz | Let me try again | May 08 13:52 |
| DaemonFC | that doesn't matter | May 08 13:52 |
| schestowitz | UK=$3trillion debt | May 08 13:53 |
| DaemonFC | when you have fiat currency | May 08 13:53 |
| DaemonFC | the system is crooked | May 08 13:53 |
| DaemonFC | and there is more debt than money | May 08 13:53 |
| schestowitz | Did China play this game too? | May 08 13:53 |
| schestowitz | I know about Japan collapsing. | May 08 13:53 |
| schestowitz | So they must have 'pulled a Greenspan' too | May 08 13:53 |
| DaemonFC | of course, only they've managed to manipulate exchange rates to actually come out ahead | May 08 13:53 |
| DaemonFC | from sucking blood from the rest of the world | May 08 13:53 |
| DaemonFC | but someone always has to pay for the central bank | May 08 13:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=germany+national+debt&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | May 08 13:54 |
| schestowitz | Page one I get "US national debt" | May 08 13:54 |
| schestowitz | Has Germany not tossed its card on the table yet? | May 08 13:54 |
| schestowitz | Still poker-facing? | May 08 13:54 |
| DaemonFC | the fractional reserve system is my favorite trick of the banksters | May 08 13:54 |
| DaemonFC | they litereally create money from nowhere every time they make a loan | May 08 13:55 |
| schestowitz | "By the early 1990s, however, that figure had risen by several 100 billion deutsche marks and was estimated to be almost DM1.5 trillion, or 50 percent of united German GDP." | May 08 13:55 |
| schestowitz | These are OLD figures | May 08 13:55 |
| schestowitz | "Data as of August 1995" | May 08 13:56 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking | May 08 13:56 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_debt | May 08 13:56 |
| DaemonFC | that's also what enables the central bank to intentionally cause a panic | May 08 13:56 |
| DaemonFC | and create a run on smaller banks | May 08 13:56 |
| schestowitz | Ah. | May 08 13:56 |
| schestowitz | Excellent page | May 08 13:56 |
| schestowitz | http://www.steuerzahler.de/webcom/show_softlink.php/_c-33/i.html | May 08 13:57 |
| schestowitz | http://cluaran.free.fr/dette.html | May 08 13:57 |
| schestowitz | France: 1.3 Euros in debt | May 08 13:57 |
| schestowitz | UK is about 2 Euros in debt | May 08 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Canadian Debt & Tax Clock < http://www.ndir.com/SI/education/debt.shtml > | May 08 13:58 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197 | May 08 13:58 |
| schestowitz | About a trillion | May 08 13:58 |
| schestowitz | Maybe CAD | May 08 13:58 |
| schestowitz | Not USD | May 08 13:58 |
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| schestowitz | Either way, for a small Canadian population this is big | May 08 13:58 |
| DaemonFC | it's about 2 hours long | May 08 13:58 |
| DaemonFC | and explains the frauds of government, religion, and the banking system | May 08 13:59 |
| schestowitz | Japan debt: http://www.mof.go.jp/english/files.htm | May 08 14:00 |
| schestowitz | I heard abotu Zeitgeist but haven't watched it yet | May 08 14:00 |
| Balrog | hi everyone | May 08 14:00 |
| schestowitz | Hey | May 08 14:00 |
| Balrog | Anything new about that article that got pulled? | May 08 14:01 |
| bgtr4 | just benched ff 3.0.10 and opera 9.64 with sunspider javascript benchmark: 1796.8ms +/- 2.1% for ff and 2338.0ms +/- 2.4% for opera | May 08 14:02 |
| Balrog | bgtr4: I wonder how that compares to webkit and ie8 | May 08 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: nope | May 08 14:02 |
| Balrog | webkit has a working GTK+ frontend, if you build from src | May 08 14:02 |
| bgtr4 | will benchmark ff3.5b4 soon | May 08 14:02 |
| Balrog | but it takes several hours and several gigs to build | May 08 14:03 |
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| bgtr4 | omg... | May 08 14:07 |
| bgtr4 | ff3.5b4 705.4ms +/- 3.0% | May 08 14:07 |
| DaemonFC | Safari 4 is faster than Firefox on that test | May 08 14:07 |
| bgtr4 | fast as a flying hedgehog | May 08 14:08 |
| bgtr4 | DaemonFC, did you try ff3.5b4? | May 08 14:08 |
| bgtr4 | it's 2.5 times faster | May 08 14:08 |
| bgtr4 | and i won't unban internet explorer to check it | May 08 14:09 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox 3.5 beta 4 is still slower than Safari | May 08 14:09 |
| bgtr4 | gotta check konqueror as well | May 08 14:09 |
| schestowitz | "I wonder who invited all these American stakeholders to meddle with European regulatory issues. Did we submit amicus letters to Bilski? Of course not. " < http://www.epo.org/patents/appeals/eba-decisions/referrals/pending/briefs.html > | May 08 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Patent system... | May 08 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Run by big companies for big companies | May 08 14:11 |
| schestowitz | "Given the nature of institutions to ossify, the Linux movement itself should be subjected to Schumpeter’s creative destruction afforded by computer software patents." - Silicon Economics , Joel Jameson | May 08 14:11 |
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| Balrog | DaemonFC: what about Webkit under GTK+ ? | May 08 14:12 |
| oiaohm | http://www.itpro.co.uk/blogs/daveyw/2009/05/07/has-microsoft-gone-mental/ LOL | May 08 14:12 |
| Balrog | http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/BuildingGtk | May 08 14:12 |
| bgtr4 | seems like windows kde 4.2.1 konqueror is pretty slow | May 08 14:13 |
| DaemonFC | well yeah | May 08 14:14 |
| DaemonFC | KDE on Windows apps also crash a lot | May 08 14:14 |
| bgtr4 | what are other good tests? | May 08 14:14 |
| DaemonFC | so no difference there :D | May 08 14:14 |
| bgtr4 | idk... it didn't crash for me | May 08 14:14 |
| bgtr4 | just take stable version | May 08 14:14 |
| bgtr4 | konqueror doesn't finish that test | May 08 14:15 |
| Balrog | bgtr4: what about webkit/GTK+? It's said to complete acid3 quite well | May 08 14:16 |
| DaemonFC | I should try Sunspider on IE 6 | May 08 14:17 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | May 08 14:17 |
| bgtr4 | i don't want to reboot | May 08 14:17 |
| bgtr4 | torrenting here | May 08 14:17 |
| bgtr4 | 2604.8ms +/- 1.1% for windows konqueror | May 08 14:17 |
| bgtr4 | not too slow | May 08 14:18 |
| Balrog | let's see what I get | May 08 14:18 |
| bgtr4 | i don't even remember which ie is installed here | May 08 14:20 |
| Balrog | 862.4ms +/- 1.8% | May 08 14:20 |
| Balrog | Webkit current nightly / Mac | May 08 14:20 |
| Balrog | but I was doing other stuff.... | May 08 14:20 |
| Balrog | so that skews it | May 08 14:21 |
| oiaohm | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Content_Processes Firefox is going down the chrome path. | May 08 14:23 |
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| Balrog | yes, I heard | May 08 14:26 |
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| _bgtr4 | wow, mozilla is making yet another browser | May 08 14:32 |
| _bgtr4 | minefield | May 08 14:32 |
| DaemonFC | http://bink.nu/photos/news_article_images/images/13504/original.aspx | May 08 14:37 |
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| _bgtr4 | wtf... this apple site doesn't provide the link to download safari 4 for windows | May 08 14:47 |
| _bgtr4 | i wanted to check it | May 08 14:47 |
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| _bgtr4 | that's lame | May 08 14:53 |
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| schestowitz | Bryan Lunduke -- 'He's just trying to provoke a response so as he can quote the 'crazies', and ignore relevant technical points raised. typical troll behavior.' | May 08 15:01 |
| schestowitz | "I knew, without a doubt, that the title alone would bring the crazies out from under the stairs and they would go after me (and the Linux Action Show)" http://lunduke.com/?p=493&cpage=1#comment-2985 | May 08 15:01 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, I'm done with that BS | May 08 15:01 |
| schestowitz | “Linux Action Show” Dudes Censor Comments They Disagree with, Then Lie About It and Ask People to Troll Us < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/truth-about-linux-action-show/ > | May 08 15:02 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is AstroTurfing in Twitter: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/microsoft-incentives-on-twitter/ | May 08 15:26 |
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| schestowitz | To be complacent with software monopolies is to reinforce a form of communism/fascism | May 08 15:27 |
| Omar871 | Hi all | May 08 15:47 |
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| mib_5xz47h | hi | May 08 15:48 |
| schestowitz | Is Internet access a 'fundamental right'? http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10234555-16.html | May 08 15:57 |
| schestowitz | mib_5xz47h: hi | May 08 15:57 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: could you please vote for this http://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition/Microsoft_s_Latest_Lie_Attack_Against_GNU_Linux_and_ODF ? It's just 1 vote shy | May 08 15:58 |
| schestowitz | I have a scoop about Vista 7 :D | May 08 15:58 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Done | May 08 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Thanks, buddy | May 08 16:09 |
| schestowitz | Censorship by intimidation: Man Who Shows That Vista 7 is as Heavy as Vista Gets Attacked < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/angry-vista-7-mob/ > | May 08 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | "Here's an interesting fact for you: India is the world's second-largest country in terms of population. And here's one more detail: by unveiling Bengali, Hindi, Malayalam, Punjabi, Tamil, and Telugu interfaces, Facebook has put itself in a good position to pursue India's citizens. " http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/08/facebook-translates-itself-into-six-indian-languages | May 08 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Maggie Shiels from the MSBBC is still singing their (MS) tune today, this time with a veiled attack on Google. | May 08 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8039316.stm | May 08 16:30 |
| schestowitz | re: "proprietarists are the ones being propped up by states" well, often they ARE the state :-) | May 08 16:31 |
| schestowitz | Lots of Google and Apple hostility in the MSBBC today; nothing but Microsoft affinity... | May 08 16:33 |
| schestowitz | Real funny sign: http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/947_signs.jpg | May 08 16:34 |
| schestowitz | Iron Maiden’s lawsuit is ‘outrageous,’ comic creator says < http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2009/05/iron-maidens-lawsuit-is-outrageous-comic-creator-says/ > | May 08 16:37 |
| schestowitz | The war on photography resumes: San Francisco Muni begins to enforce imaginary no-photos policy < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/07/san-francisco-muni-b.html > | May 08 16:40 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft does to WGA what it did to Vista: Keep it the same, change the name < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137145/microsoft-fixes-malware > | May 08 16:42 |
| schestowitz | Oracle is moving into hardware (indeed) with Sun's assets: http://tech.yahoo.com/news/pcworld/20090508/tc_pcworld/oraclewillstayinthehardwarebusinessellisonsays | May 08 16:43 |
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| jberg | you guys are ridiculous | May 08 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.reuters.com/article/idgSmallBusiness/idUS138315385920090507 | May 08 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | IE on pace to drop below 50% share by 2011 | May 08 16:45 |
| schestowitz | Car with three wheels (but not in the same direction as Mr. Bean's): http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/05/this-car-is-not-the-future/ | May 08 16:46 |
| schestowitz | yo, jberg | May 08 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Are you one of the Show? | May 08 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: WinFLP with no IE requires only 600 megs of disk space | May 08 16:46 |
| schestowitz | I clarified | May 08 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 16:46 |
| jberg | hehe I love linux and you know who got me into it LINUX ACTION SHOW. Later dudes you my friend are a poo poo head | May 08 16:47 |
| schestowitz | More on the same insanity: Creationism Dig Violated Student’s Rights < http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/05/creationism-dig-violated-students-rights/ >. Yes, "the world is round," too | May 08 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | This hopefully explains: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/truth-about-linux-action-show/ | May 08 16:48 |
| DaemonFC | Well, if I say I'm an athiest, they all freak out | May 08 16:48 |
| schestowitz | The 'action' show sent a mob to us | May 08 16:48 |
| DaemonFC | but then of course they have the right to force their beliefs on me | May 08 16:48 |
| schestowitz | Actually asking for abuse | May 08 16:48 |
| DaemonFC | cause God gave them the right | May 08 16:48 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 16:48 |
| schestowitz | haha | May 08 16:48 |
| schestowitz | Could be worse | May 08 16:49 |
| schestowitz | You could be stone, you bl00dy man | May 08 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | they like to rub your face in their pile of shit | May 08 16:49 |
| schestowitz | *stoned | May 08 16:49 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I don't mind it much | May 08 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | and you can't tell them to "Just go waste your own life" | May 08 16:49 |
| schestowitz | But suppression of speech is an issue | May 08 16:49 |
| schestowitz | Like in the case of this guy | May 08 16:49 |
| schestowitz | And the Glenn Beck scum | May 08 16:49 |
| schestowitz | Saying people should not even get a voice if they are Darwinists | May 08 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | It's kind of hard to make fun of the far right | May 08 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Why? | May 08 16:50 |
| schestowitz | They have guns? | May 08 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | they're so insane it's almost funny to watch them | May 08 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Scary | May 08 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Not just funny | May 08 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Did you see the story about them in Afghanistan? | May 08 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | then you remember "Oh shit, there are really people that believe that" | May 08 16:50 |
| schestowitz | They try to converty people their to Christianity | May 08 16:51 |
| schestowitz | They are on a crusade | May 08 16:51 |
| schestowitz | War on Islam, proper | May 08 16:51 |
| schestowitz | "Here... have the bible..." | May 08 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | you know what I think? | May 08 16:51 |
| schestowitz | I was shacked when I read it | May 08 16:51 |
| schestowitz | They not try to convert Muslims using the military | May 08 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | I think we should put the Christians, Jews, and Muslims all in one big open area | May 08 16:51 |
| schestowitz | Give us your oil, become x-ians'' | May 08 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | give them an unlimited supply of weapons and ammunition | May 08 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | and let them sort the problem out | May 08 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | cause they would | May 08 16:52 |
| schestowitz | If you refer to creationists, that would be most of the world | May 08 16:52 |
| schestowitz | Darwin died long ago | May 08 16:52 |
| schestowitz | over 100 years later the adoption rate of Truth is still poor | May 08 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Not even 6-8 generations were enough | May 08 16:53 |
| schestowitz | So creationism has strong endurance via indoctrination or peer pressure, I reckon | May 08 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | They use the fact that there might be 1 athiest and 1 Muslim per 100 Christians as "proof" of some kind of an invasion | May 08 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | it's kind of sad that Christians are really that paranoid/delusional | May 08 16:54 |
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| schestowitz | Well, the market share mentality | May 08 16:54 |
| schestowitz | Like, "many people use Windows," so it must be great | May 08 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | The Christians figure as long as there is one person on Earth that disagrees with them, then there's a conspiracy to "overthrow" them | May 08 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Sermon = marketing | May 08 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Waggener Edstrom = pastor | May 08 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Zuck = crusader | May 08 16:55 |
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| schestowitz | Ballmer = pope | May 08 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Gate = mary the Saint | May 08 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | Steve Ballmer is actually kind of amusing | May 08 16:56 |
| toros | re | May 08 16:56 |
| schestowitz | *Gates | May 08 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7 is sounding kind of Orwellian | May 08 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | all this talk about turning WGA into a re-education camp | May 08 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 16:57 |
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| schestowitz | Elsevier's corruption runs deeper: http://www.sennoma.net/main/archives/2009/05/no_bottom_to_worse_at_elsevier.php They also attacked FOSS in ways | May 08 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Having a "National Secular Society" makes it seems like atheism is a dangerous cult now, a deviation. | May 08 17:27 |
| trmanco | 09021990 | May 08 17:40 |
| trmanco | oops | May 08 17:40 |
| trmanco | didn't paste my birth date in the right window :-P | May 08 17:41 |
| schestowitz | The EPO ship is sinking. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/alison-brimelow-to-leave-epo/ (Goodbye, Alison Brimelow (EPO President)) | May 08 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Lie detectors are a lie... Lie Detector Charlatans < http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/05/lie_detector_ch.html > | May 08 17:50 |
| schestowitz | China ready for post-Kyoto deal on climate change http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/may/06/china-seeks-climate-change-deal | May 08 17:51 |
| schestowitz | The EPO wanted software patents loophole. “as such”, it lost people's faith in it. http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?blogid=14&entryid=2168 | May 08 17:54 |
| schestowitz | Lies behind torture: ‘Make sure you say that you were treated properly’ < http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n09/peir01_.html > | May 08 17:55 |
| schestowitz | http://www.longtail.com/the_long_tail/2009/05/a-tragic-tale-of-free-gone-horribly-wrong.html "Short form: the attempt by a half-dozen newspaper publishers to “out-free” a free Icelandic paper that entered the market (backed by Morten Lund, who made a fortune as an early investor in Skype) ended up costing the collective newspaper industry in Denmark more than $150 million dollars and the bankruptcy of three newspapers." | May 08 18:06 |
| schestowitz | What Happens if Microsoft Buys Twitter? < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/05/what-happens-if-microsoft-buys-twitter.html > It won't happen anyway. | May 08 18:09 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/upgrade-advisor.aspx | May 08 18:19 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: I told Hubert about joining the gnu area (like bazaar.. will launchpad go there too?). I hope he will respond. | May 08 18:20 |
| trmanco | what do you mean? | May 08 18:20 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: does education where you are incorporate militarism? The indoctrination in some nations starts when you are a toddler staring at troops marching and celebrating heroism/patriotism. | May 08 18:20 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: RMS told me to ask Hubert to put gnote near gnu. | May 08 18:21 |
| trmanco | ah | May 08 18:21 |
| DaemonFC | running the "Upgrade Advisor" | May 08 18:21 |
| DaemonFC | this should be interesting | May 08 18:21 |
| trmanco | launchpad will in the future be open source | May 08 18:21 |
| trmanco | not sure if it will be released as free software | May 08 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor - will it ever say "no"? | May 08 18:22 |
| schestowitz | Reminds of that old flow chart for Vista. | May 08 18:22 |
| schestowitz | Can you find it maybe? | May 08 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 08 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | one device that works fine in 7, it says is incompatible | May 08 18:27 |
| DaemonFC | and one device that wrecks Windows 7 if you install the drivers is listed as OK | May 08 18:27 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: did you see the referecent to you? | May 08 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 - last article? | May 08 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 08 18:29 |
| *DaemonFC is not feeling so great | May 08 18:29 | |
| *DaemonFC goes to find some bismuth | May 08 18:30 | |
| schestowitz | So it's true that Dell is at least studying mobile Linux right now: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124165099104393565.html (Dell Studies Google's Android for Future Products) | May 08 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Chrome + Privoxy is actually pretty nice | May 08 18:51 |
| *DaemonFC is trying to 2.0 beta | May 08 18:53 | |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz, i saw some new replies here http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/16/india-moves-to-free-software/ | May 08 18:56 |
| zer0c00l | anything special about that post today? | May 08 18:57 |
| DaemonFC | Chrome 2 blows Firefox away on Sunspider :P | May 08 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | http://tinyurl.com/ocdaen | May 08 19:00 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: what's it all about? | May 08 19:00 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz, some one seems to be trolling there | May 08 19:01 |
| zer0c00l | i subscribed to comments | May 08 19:01 |
| zer0c00l | to that post | May 08 19:01 |
| zer0c00l | just got few comment notification mails | May 08 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | Chrome 2 appears to be roughly 1,000% faster than IE 8 on javascript | May 08 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | and 50% faster than Firefox 3.5 beta 4 | May 08 19:02 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: yes, but why 3 new comments? | May 08 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Did someone link to it? | May 08 19:02 |
| zer0c00l | may be | May 08 19:02 |
| zer0c00l | i dont know | May 08 19:02 |
| zer0c00l | there is some guy named Clarkson | May 08 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: there was some kerfluffle a while back | May 08 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | that Google was found to be using undocumented APIs in Windows | May 08 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | commenting in their source code suggests they reverse engineered parts of Vista | May 08 19:04 |
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| kentma | DaemonFC: nothing wrong with rev eng, though, is there? | May 08 19:08 |
| DaemonFC | as long as they don't break any copy protection and haven't seen the Windows source code | May 08 19:08 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 19:08 |
| schestowitz | Did Microsoft nick another company from the inside? Probably not. "Microsoft to buy firm chaired by its top video-game executive" < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft_to_buy_firm_chaired_by_its_top_video-game_executive_44554052.html > | May 08 19:09 |
| DaemonFC | actually, the DMCA even makes some exceptions for breaking copy protection for compatibility | May 08 19:09 |
| schestowitz | There's a funny in the news: | May 08 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | but those provisions are worded vaguely enough that it's something of a gray area that no business would want to involve itself in | May 08 19:10 |
| schestowitz | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/05/mpaa-proof-of-concept-copy-dvds-by-pointing-camera-at-screen/ http://techdirt.com/articles/20090506/1851344774.shtml | May 08 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox is funded largely by Google | May 08 19:10 |
| schestowitz | It's basically the MPAA showing people how to copy its films | May 08 19:10 |
| schestowitz | Without violating DMCA | May 08 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | by Mozilla's own account, Google provides well over 60% of their income | May 08 19:10 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: like 80% | May 08 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 08 19:11 |
| schestowitz | Beat me to it | May 08 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | Google kind of has to | May 08 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | cause if they didn't, Microsoft would | May 08 19:11 |
| schestowitz | Future Mozilla -- powered by tip jar? | May 08 19:11 |
| schestowitz | Would what? Fund Firefox? | May 08 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | well unfortunately Windows is all the Mozilla people really care about | May 08 19:12 |
| schestowitz | MS wouldn't find them for Live search. | May 08 19:12 |
| DaemonFC | sure they would | May 08 19:12 |
| schestowitz | I very much doubt they would swing this way | May 08 19:12 |
| schestowitz | Mozila hates MS | May 08 19:12 |
| schestowitz | Window Snyder is out too | May 08 19:12 |
| schestowitz | [good riddance] | May 08 19:12 |
| DaemonFC | no, they work closely with each other | May 08 19:12 |
| schestowitz | they have no choice | May 08 19:12 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of stuff in Firefox is so Windows-specific it either has to be stripped out of the Linux binaries | May 08 19:12 |
| DaemonFC | or completely rewritten | May 08 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla is grilling MS at the EU commission ATM | May 08 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Show me the code | May 08 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Did you look at it? | May 08 19:13 |
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| trmanco | anyone wanna see what I've been working on? | May 08 19:13 |
| schestowitz | wm, _bgtr4 | May 08 19:13 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: go ahead | May 08 19:14 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : go ahead | May 08 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | May 08 19:14 |
| trmanco | http://trmanco.co.cc/surll/ | May 08 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Mind asynch | May 08 19:14 |
| trmanco | that's just a test site | May 08 19:14 |
| schestowitz | co.cc?? | May 08 19:14 |
| trmanco | yeah, test site | May 08 19:15 |
| schestowitz | It can be misread | May 08 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Esp. by trolls | May 08 19:15 |
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| trmanco | it point to a free host | May 08 19:15 |
| trmanco | points* | May 08 19:15 |
| schestowitz | http://github.com/trmanco/surll/tree/master | May 08 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | Window Snyder was probably forced out | May 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Cool. | May 08 19:16 |
| trmanco | I just added some jquery magic to it today | May 08 19:16 |
| trmanco | :) | May 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: any proof? | May 08 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | just overall incompetence would be my guess | May 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/11/window-snyder-out/ | May 08 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox has actualyl sprung more leaks than MSIE over the last couple years | May 08 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | so "Why exactly are we paying you?" | May 08 19:17 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 19:17 |
| _Hicham_ | what kinds of leaks | May 08 19:17 |
| trmanco | DaemonFC, uou can have real numbers from IE leaks | May 08 19:17 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | May 08 19:17 |
| schestowitz | leaks? | May 08 19:18 |
| trmanco | it's spread everywhere throughout the system | May 08 19:18 |
| schestowitz | Overflows? | May 08 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | go to Secunia | May 08 19:18 |
| schestowitz | What about leaks? Mem? | May 08 19:18 |
| trmanco | oh those leaks | May 08 19:18 |
| trmanco | thought you where referring to mem leaks | May 08 19:18 |
| _Hicham_ | what leaks then? | May 08 19:19 |
| DaemonFC | My point is, if they're insecure, why are they paying someone a six figure salary to make sure this doesn't happen? | May 08 19:19 |
| schestowitz | to praise ms | May 08 19:19 |
| schestowitz | As she did | May 08 19:19 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : nothing is secure 100% | May 08 19:19 |
| schestowitz | She worked for ms | May 08 19:19 |
| DaemonFC | She would have gotten the boot formally from me | May 08 19:19 |
| DaemonFC | and a lot quicker than that | May 08 19:19 |
| DaemonFC | if it was my company | May 08 19:20 |
| _Hicham_ | security is just a myth | May 08 19:20 |
| _Hicham_ | there is always a hole | May 08 19:20 |
| _Hicham_ | but we can fill as much holes as we can | May 08 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | Well, there's the concept of low laying fruit | May 08 19:20 |
| _Hicham_ | sanitized input is still a problem | May 08 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft has a field of watermelons | May 08 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | and Mozilla has the field of watermelons across from them | May 08 19:21 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : Mozilla is at least open | May 08 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | not really | May 08 19:21 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not the only one to patch firefox | May 08 19:21 |
| trmanco | haha | May 08 19:21 |
| _Hicham_ | firefox is patched by all distros | May 08 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | if you report a vulnerability, they don't disclose anything, they take their damned time fixing it | May 08 19:22 |
| trmanco | another user removed mono, tomboy,f-spot and installed real apps | May 08 19:22 |
| trmanco | :D | May 08 19:22 |
| trmanco | I do have some influence on people :-P | May 08 19:22 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : it is normal, no? | May 08 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | if I found anything wrong in Firefox, I would disclose it as loudly and clearly as possible | May 08 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | with examples of how to exploit it | May 08 19:22 |
| _Hicham_ | and they will hear you | May 08 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | see if it lit a fire under their asses | May 08 19:22 |
| _Hicham_ | and find patches | May 08 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | that what they do, patching | May 08 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | go watch their security advisories | May 08 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Mandriva is still 2 security releases behind | May 08 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | and god only knows what Ubuntu is up to | May 08 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | go to Fedora | May 08 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | it is the most up-to-date | May 08 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no distro ahead of Fedora | May 08 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | and see if there is a damned old package | May 08 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora releases new Firefox version the day Mozilla announce it | May 08 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | that is a very good example of upstream/downsteam cooperation | May 08 19:25 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, see -> http://open-mania.com/2009/05/01/gnote-vs-tomboy-e-remocao-do-mono/#comment-3333 and http://open-mania.com/2009/05/01/gnote-vs-tomboy-e-remocao-do-mono/#comment-3334 for more info | May 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. http://www.123people.com/s/alison+brimelow | May 08 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | worst browser of all time was IE 6 | May 08 19:26 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck IE 6 a very big fuck | May 08 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck it again and again | May 08 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | it was actually listed in PC World as one of the worst tech products of all time | May 08 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | I hated IE 6 more than anything | May 08 19:27 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: no blog on Mono disposal? | May 08 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | made my life miserable | May 08 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | you still have to add some tags just for IE 6 | May 08 19:27 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, not sure | May 08 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | OK, top 25 worst, and Microsoft is responsible for 4, 6, 7, and 8 | May 08 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Me, WinG library, Bob, and IE 6 | May 08 19:29 |
| trmanco | what about clippy | May 08 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | to be fair though Windows Vista was not released when they wrote this | May 08 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | I'm sure that would have brought them up to half the top ten worst | May 08 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | "Shortly after Me appeared in late 2000, users reported problems installing it, getting it to run, getting it to work with other hardware or software, and getting it to stop running. Aside from that, Me worked great." | May 08 19:30 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : DEP is still present in Windows 7? | May 08 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | sounds like what happens with every Windows to me | May 08 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, DEP is just Microsoft's name for NX Bit | May 08 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | Linux supports that | May 08 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | it's mandatory on any 64-bit process in Linux | May 08 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | Vista and 7 work differently than XP with DEP | May 08 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | applications can opt in | May 08 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | well, actually, threads can opt in | May 08 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | Chrome uses it | May 08 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | IE uses it | May 08 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox does not | May 08 19:32 |
| _Hicham_ | Chrome goes around it, to be precise | May 08 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | there's a lot of inconsistent behavior in Windows, in the wat it handles 32-bit and 64-bit processes | May 08 19:33 |
| _Hicham_ | they had access to secret docs | May 08 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of security features are possible on 32-bit x86 | May 08 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | but would break a lot of shit | May 08 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | so 32-bit processes have to opt in to DEP, and 64-bit processes get it, mandatory | May 08 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | and all Windows system services get it | May 08 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | but you can rid it to force it on every program | May 08 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | and make an exceptions list crash by crash | May 08 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 08 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | *rig | May 08 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Windows and Viruses - Made for each other < http://www.planetoss.com/detail.php?id=21 > | May 08 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | it'll even take out Windows Explorer if you don't make an exception for that | May 08 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | and since malicious software can hook into Windows Explorer (and does) | May 08 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | it would defeat the point | May 08 19:35 |
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| balzac | webex sucks | May 08 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Is this true?? Chrome Users Most Up to Date, Firefox Second < http://www.osnews.com/story/21445/Chrome_Users_Most_Up_to_Date_Firefox_Second > | May 08 19:36 |
| balzac | stinks is a better word. | May 08 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | you really should use Privoxy if you're browsing web pages in Windows | May 08 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | lots of malicious software hiding in web advertisements | May 08 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Thom Holwerda is a bit of a MSFTer , so I don't trust him much | May 08 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | even on legitimate sites | May 08 19:37 |
| balzac | Roy, auto-updating is a feature for a consumer-grade browser | May 08 19:37 |
| balzac | I don't want the latest version to be automatically updated unless I'm ready for it | May 08 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva, as DaemonFC said, is still @ 3.0.8 for FF | May 08 19:38 |
| balzac | That's a bit of wankery from OSNews to compare Chrome with the venerable Firefox in that regard | May 08 19:38 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : true, Chrome users are the most up-to-date | May 08 19:38 |
| _Hicham_ | and u know why already | May 08 19:39 |
| schestowitz | I wonder if the flaws fixed are only affecting/targeted at Winders | May 08 19:39 |
| balzac | _Hicham_: why? | May 08 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | it's fairly alarming the way a lot of desktop Linux distributions brush security to the side | May 08 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | they're basically just lucky that nobody is trying to attack them | May 08 19:39 |
| _Hicham_ | Because Chrome installs itself in Application Data folder of the current user | May 08 19:39 |
| _Hicham_ | so no admin privilegies are required | May 08 19:40 |
| _Hicham_ | while Firefox ( by default ) install into program files folder | May 08 19:40 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: I'm worried about the rich-media support which is based on proprietary technologies making vulnerabilities in GNU/Linux distros | May 08 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | no admin priveleges are required to run Firefox | May 08 19:40 |
| _Hicham_ | which requires admin privilegies | May 08 19:40 |
| balzac | _Hicham_: windows... | May 08 19:40 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : to update it, u must | May 08 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | it jut gets annoying to have it freak out if you label it with a Low Integrity token | May 08 19:41 |
| _Hicham_ | on Windows or Linux | May 08 19:41 |
| balzac | I'm happy to remain in control of the installed version myself. | May 08 19:41 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora ships a vanilla Firefox | May 08 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | Well yeah, it's obvious that if Flash, Mono, and Moonlight take root, then you will have cross platform malicious software | May 08 19:41 |
| balzac | the best thing about Chrome is the separation of tabs into discreet processes | May 08 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | write once run anywhere :) | May 08 19:41 |
| _Hicham_ | if u run it with root privilegies, u can update it via Mozilla | May 08 19:41 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: all the more reason to tear that garbage out | May 08 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | no, the Firefox in distributions can't be updated with the Firefox updater | May 08 19:42 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : what distro are u in? | May 08 19:42 |
| balzac | flash already harms the good reputation of Firefox by helping pop-ups get past your pop-up blocking extension | May 08 19:42 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: works for me sometimes | May 08 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Same with Thunderbird | May 08 19:42 |
| balzac | Flash makes FF look bad | May 08 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | when I'm on Linux, Fedora mainly | May 08 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | I mess around with Ubuntu sometimes to slap it around and see what they've done this time :P | May 08 19:43 |
| balzac | That's why mozilla is leading the way in encouraging and supporting open standards for video and svg | May 08 19:43 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : then run Firefox with root privilegies, and see if u can update it via the menu | May 08 19:43 |
| balzac | BTW, Webex stinks | May 08 19:43 |
| _Hicham_ | I tried it already | May 08 19:43 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is risky | May 08 19:43 |
| schestowitz | It's still going mainstream. UC Berkeley Extension Offers Open Source Fundamentals Course < http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/uc-berkeley-extension-offers-open-source-fundamentals-course > | May 08 19:43 |
| balzac | now I have to go back to work | May 08 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | you can't | May 08 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | the option has been left out | May 08 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | it's a compile time option | May 08 19:44 |
| _Hicham_ | no | May 08 19:44 |
| _Hicham_ | run it with root privilegies | May 08 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | and Firefox does not provide 64-bit builds anyway | May 08 19:44 |
| _Hicham_ | su - c 'firefox' | May 08 19:44 |
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| DaemonFC | I'm telling you, the Firefox you see in a distribution is NOT the binary provided by Mozilla | May 08 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | it has been altered | May 08 19:45 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not the binary provided by Mozilla, but it is vanilla | May 08 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu Intel Performance Still In Bad Shape < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_intel_shape&num=1 > Shame on Intel again..... | May 08 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | no, it's not | May 08 19:45 |
| _Hicham_ | it have been linked to system libraries | May 08 19:45 |
| _Hicham_ | that is the difference | May 08 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu has all the Debian Iceweasel patches | May 08 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | and some of their own | May 08 19:46 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu is just messing with Firefox | May 08 19:46 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora is doing a great job | May 08 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | no, Firefox for Linux was incredibly broken | May 08 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | Debian fixed it and then was harassed | May 08 19:46 |
| _Hicham_ | I know that | May 08 19:46 |
| schestowitz | Trolled? | May 08 19:46 |
| _Hicham_ | did u use Iceweasel? | May 08 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu gets preferential treatment because they don't realyl care about horrible licensing terms | May 08 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | anyway, most distributions have gone that path | May 08 19:47 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't understand their packaging policies | May 08 19:47 |
| _Hicham_ | why provide a firefox-branding package? | May 08 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | if you alter the source at all, you can't call it Firefox | May 08 19:47 |
| _Hicham_ | since u can't install firefox without that package? | May 08 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | unless they sign off on it | May 08 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | because Firefox is not free software | May 08 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | most of the source code that goes into Firefox is free software, but the Firefox browser is not | May 08 19:48 |
| _Hicham_ | Firefox is free software | May 08 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | it requires you to agree to their EULA | May 08 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | which stipulates that you must destroy all copies if they order you to | May 08 19:49 |
| _Hicham_ | the brand is not | May 08 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | which automatically makes it non-free | May 08 19:49 |
| _Hicham_ | it is still free | May 08 19:49 |
| _Hicham_ | Debian was not clear on this point | May 08 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | no, that goes against the definition of free software | May 08 19:49 |
| _Hicham_ | not free software | May 08 19:49 |
| _Hicham_ | against DFSG | May 08 19:49 |
| _Hicham_ | there is a difference | May 08 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | you can't say "It's free software, but you have to destroy it if we tell you to, and you can't modify it" | May 08 19:49 |
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| _Hicham_ | that is not what mozilla said | May 08 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | if you build the browser without their branding and their EULA terms | May 08 19:50 |
| _Hicham_ | u really don't get the point | May 08 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | it's free software | May 08 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | as Firefox it is not | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmmmmm.. | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Check this out | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Ellison: | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | ======= | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | A. No. Our primary reason for designing our own chips is to | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | build computers with the very best performance, reliability and | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | security available in the market. Some system features work | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | much better if they are implemented in silicon rather than | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | software. Once we own Sun, we'll be able to plan and synchronize | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | new features from silicon to software, just like IBM and the | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | other big system suppliers. We want to work with Fujitsu to | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | design advanced features into the SPARC microprocessor aimed at | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | improving Oracle database performance. In my opinion, this will | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | enable SPARC Solaris open-system mainframes and servers to | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | challenge IBM's dominance in the data center. Sun was very | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | successful for a very long time selling computer systems based | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | on the SPARC chip and the Solaris operating system. Now, with | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | the added power of integrated Oracle software, we think they can | May 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | be again. | May 08 19:50 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why u contribute back to mozilla? | May 08 19:50 |
| _Hicham_ | why/how | May 08 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The Chrome binaries are free software right? :) Same difference. | May 08 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | Chromium is free software, Chrome isn't | May 08 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | same goes with Firefox | May 08 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat | May 08 19:51 |
| _Hicham_ | Firefox is free, its brand not | May 08 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | if you compile Chromium, you can do whatever you want with it | May 08 19:51 |
| _Hicham_ | no one can use trademarked logos | May 08 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | but if you use Chrome it is nonfree software with a EULA | May 08 19:51 |
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| DaemonFC | Firefox itself is nonfree software with a EULA | May 08 19:52 |
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| _Hicham_ | did u read the EULA carefully? | May 08 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | even though 99.999% of the stuff that went in it is free software | May 08 19:52 |
| _Hicham_ | except the logos | May 08 19:52 |
| _Hicham_ | is there anything wrong with logos? | May 08 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | right, but their EULA makes it nonfree when distributed as Firefox | May 08 19:53 |
| _Hicham_ | I send a mail to Eric Dorland, Iceweasel maintainer about that | May 08 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | it then becomes proprietary commercial software | May 08 19:53 |
| _Hicham_ | really funny | May 08 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Not so good: Solution Provider Acquires Open Source Specialist < http://www.thevarguy.com/2009/05/07/solution-provider-acquires-open-source-specialist/ > | May 08 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | I'd say just strip the damned branding and you have the same thing, possibly better | May 08 19:53 |
| _Hicham_ | when a company want some trademark protection, it is called non free | May 08 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | because you can optimize it however you like | May 08 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | but brand name mindshare matters more to Ubuntu | May 08 19:54 |
| _Hicham_ | why not collaborate with Mozilla? | May 08 19:54 |
| MinceR | so oracle doesn't see slowlaris for the dinosaur it is either. | May 08 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | nobody says you can't do both | May 08 19:54 |
| _Hicham_ | why be ingrateful to upsteam projects? | May 08 19:54 |
| _Hicham_ | you gonna make things worse by doing that | May 08 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | disagreeing with their nonfree terms for Firefox doesn't stop a distribution from contributing patches to the free source code | May 08 19:55 |
| _Hicham_ | and that is one of the reasons why Firefox Linux is progressing slowly | May 08 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | what distributions should do is get together, release a name and artwork into the public domain, and just all agree to use that | May 08 19:55 |
| _Hicham_ | no real cooperation | May 08 19:55 |
| _Hicham_ | there is already a name : Firefox | May 08 19:56 |
| _Hicham_ | distributions should follow Fedora way | May 08 19:56 |
| _Hicham_ | ship a vanilla Firefox | May 08 19:56 |
| _Hicham_ | that what distros should do | May 08 19:56 |
| _Hicham_ | Debian, in README file of Iceweasel package recommends producing bugs in a vanilla Firefox | May 08 19:58 |
| _Hicham_ | so that u can report a bug properly | May 08 19:58 |
| _Hicham_ | why add that overhead? | May 08 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3801/46197053.png | May 08 20:01 |
| _Hicham_ | nice image | May 08 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | my favorite guest is Windows 3.1 | May 08 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | with IE 5 | May 08 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 20:05 |
| MinceR | why does upstream make it a nonfree product then? | May 08 20:05 |
| *DaemonFC has every Windows and DOS ever released | May 08 20:05 | |
| DaemonFC | and some that weren't | May 08 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | cause Mozilla is the douchiest douches in doucheville? | May 08 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | *shrugs* | May 08 20:06 |
| MinceR | (offtopic) http://static.syswear.com/images/t-shirts/folded/jesus_saves_folded_marge_black_folded.png | May 08 20:06 |
| MinceR | Douchess of the Douchy of Doucheville? | May 08 20:06 |
| *DaemonFC digs his Windows 95 disc out | May 08 20:09 | |
| DaemonFC | just for the hell of it | May 08 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, pick a Windows | May 08 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Me perhaps? | May 08 20:10 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: maybe Oracle wants to own its OS | May 08 20:17 |
| schestowitz | It can own Solariis, no? | May 08 20:17 |
| schestowitz | But it's too deep in Linux, too | May 08 20:17 |
| schestowitz | It could combine it with ZFS which is now owns | May 08 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 08 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | Slowlaris | May 08 20:18 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: it looks wrong when Vista uses Fedora wallpaper | May 08 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Just got a little scoop on SCO | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | via the MOG article | May 08 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | meh | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | "As usual, she can't get the finer points right. My eyewitness does not | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | agree with even the factual elements. | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | But McConnell is a Bush conservative, who is a member of the | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Federalist Society and was a member of Lawyers for Bush/Cheney, which | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | was co-chaired by John Yoo of torture memo fame. | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | what all that means I don't know. It could mean SCO hopes he'll help | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | them, being of a mindset they think will be like theirs. Lots of | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | folks admire the guy, including liberals, though. But I can't help but | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | notice all the emphasis she places on things he allegedly said. | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | There's no transcript, so trolls can say whatever they want, pretend | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | they attended, whatever. No doubt they are and will. It's just a wait | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | and see thing." | May 08 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | Vista doesn't come with any decent wallpapers | May 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | US job cuts slow in April < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/08/us_april2009_jobs_report/ > 'Only' half a million | May 08 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Maybe the money that OBAMAA is printing provides a temporary cushion (for the rich) | May 08 20:22 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I have Vista wallpapers | May 08 20:22 |
| schestowitz | Some are OK | May 08 20:22 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: When I am king, the penalty for using RAR will be death by waterboarding | May 08 20:24 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Voltaire's sales plummet in Q1 < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/08/voltaire_q12009_numbers/ > | May 08 20:25 |
| schestowitz | ARR....... | May 08 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'm installing WinFLP | May 08 20:26 |
| schestowitz | re RAR punishment, Candy and Cheney will salivate over the very idea | May 08 20:27 |
| schestowitz | Windows 7 makes me laugh < http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/2009/05/windows-7-makes-me-laugh.html > hear, hear. | May 08 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: You may like this | May 08 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | gimme a minute to upload | May 08 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8070/88092008.png | May 08 20:29 |
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| schestowitz | Marbux is feeding the standard trolls (Alex) and bragging about it. http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-comment/200905/threads.html#00003 | May 08 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | a typical WinFLP install it 651 megs | May 08 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | or 1/6th the size of XP | May 08 20:31 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: so isn't Oracle Red Hat^W^WUnbreakable Linux good enough? :> | May 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | "We've got a pretty lively conversation going. Interesting but no | May 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | surprise (to me) that Rob has expressed no interest in fixing the | May 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | specification in relevant regard, either in his posts or on the | May 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | mailing list. That's nothing new. He's made a years-long written | May 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | record of his desire to keep ODF dark and mysterious. Only his excuses | May 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | change." | May 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Damn | May 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Those MS trolls | May 08 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | Internet Explorer is an OPTIONAL component | May 08 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | and so is Media Player | May 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | So is secuerity | May 08 20:32 |
| MinceR | it's so optional they're setting it as the default browser in a vista7 "upgrade" | May 08 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | May 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | We've just made FP of LT \o/ | May 08 20:35 |
| DaemonFC | WinFLP is essentially XP without the crap | May 08 20:35 |
| DaemonFC | needless to say most of XP is gone | May 08 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | I may put this on my laptop to play with it on real hardware | May 08 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | Electronic voting - Free software and transparency are not enough http://www.h-online.com/open/Electronic-voting-Free-software-and-transparency-are-not-enough--/features/113230/ | May 08 20:41 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft Airlines < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137254/microsoft-airlines > speaking of which, the Windows shop called FAA is, well.. http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137251/faa-admits-hackers | May 08 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 08 20:55 |
| DaemonFC | VirtualBox has seamless mode | May 08 20:55 |
| DaemonFC | I'm running XP apps on my Vista desktop | May 08 20:55 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 20:55 |
| schestowitz | Dell does Linux+SSD :-) http://www.i4u.com/article24659.html (Dell Mini 10 Netbook Available with Ubuntu and SSD Option) | May 08 21:01 |
| schestowitz | What? | May 08 21:01 |
| schestowitz | You run XP? | May 08 21:01 |
| schestowitz | :-) | May 08 21:01 |
| schestowitz | What's wrong with Vista? | May 08 21:01 |
| schestowitz | It's like a person who goes to 2 restaurant in a row for each course :-) | May 08 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Instead of one that serves starters and desserts too | May 08 21:02 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | May 08 21:02 |
| DaemonFC | monthly Democrat meeting is tomorrow | May 08 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Will Bush attend? | May 08 21:03 |
| DaemonFC | hah | May 08 21:03 |
| schestowitz | Why not? | May 08 21:03 |
| schestowitz | C'mon, waterboarding is fun to watch | May 08 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | welll.... | May 08 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | it's just the county Democrats :P | May 08 21:04 |
| schestowitz | I didn't say he'd be on the desk with them | May 08 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | Whether you are switching from Netscape Navigator or just want to use more than one browser, it's easy to learn and use Internet Explorer. | May 08 21:06 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 21:06 |
| DaemonFC | http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1375/94707187.png | May 08 21:10 |
| schestowitz | haha. | May 08 21:15 |
| schestowitz | How many megs? | May 08 21:15 |
| schestowitz | Are you on dialup? :p | May 08 21:15 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 08 21:16 |
| DaemonFC | cable | May 08 21:16 |
| schestowitz | SugarCRM's John Roberts is leaving. As much as I like FOSS, I can't consider this good news. But Sugar ain't so open. | May 08 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Windows=make one image | May 08 21:17 |
| DaemonFC | it offered me SP3 | May 08 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Linux=update once in several months | May 08 21:17 |
| DaemonFC | but then failed because I didn't have some necessary updates | May 08 21:17 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 21:17 |
| schestowitz | XP SP2 is years old | May 08 21:17 |
| schestowitz | new distro comes up | May 08 21:18 |
| schestowitz | You upgrade | May 08 21:18 |
| schestowitz | AND | May 08 21:18 |
| schestowitz | You get newe FEATURES | May 08 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | service packs usually have a few new features | May 08 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | nothing too exciting though | May 08 21:18 |
| schestowitz | JRuby will survive after Oracles buys Sun, engineer says - IDG | May 08 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, new features like WGA | May 08 21:19 |
| schestowitz | Oops, I mean activiation | May 08 21:19 |
| schestowitz | Seagate is notorious for poor Linux support but here it is USING Linux: http://www.infoworld.com/d/storage/blackarmor-nas-polished-storage-server-open-source-heart-634 | May 08 21:20 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz: WinFLP can even run everyone's favorite browser | May 08 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1375/94707187.png | May 08 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Here is a progress report on SA's move to Free software in govt': http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/software/2009/0905061034.asp?O=FPTOP&S=IT%20in%20Government&A=ITG | May 08 21:24 |
| schestowitz | The's the prev screenshot | May 08 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | errrr | May 08 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Updates | May 08 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | odd | May 08 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | got the wrong one | May 08 21:25 |
| schestowitz | MySQL eventually does go to Wall Street.. sorta.. http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Marketcetera-985263.html | May 08 21:26 |
| MinceR | m$ helps us spread gnu/linux by improving WGA in vista7 >> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/08/1858226&from=rss | May 08 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Marbux is there bickering after he and the ODF Foundation he was in threw a fit. | May 08 21:27 |
| schestowitz | background about the ODF Foundation: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/01/odf-foundation-stunt/ http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/06/opendocument-foundation-civil-war/ | May 08 21:30 |
| schestowitz | improved advantage | May 08 21:30 |
| schestowitz | WGA=yummy | May 08 21:30 |
| schestowitz | WGA: WHOSE advantage? Customers? No. Microsoft? No? Linux? Ding sing sing. | May 08 21:31 |
| schestowitz | WGA: WHOSE advantage? Customers? No. Microsoft? No? Linux? Ding ding ding. | May 08 21:31 |
| MinceR | :) | May 08 21:32 |
| schestowitz | Too many typos for me in IRC... | May 08 21:32 |
| DaemonFC | According to Joe Williams, general manager for Worldwide Genuine Windows at Microsoft, counterfeit software 'delivers a rich user experience and improves customer satisfaction with our products, particularly if users know that they just saved $300 and don't have to deal with the product activator.' | May 08 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | ooops | May 08 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | that was from that bizarre alternate universe | May 08 21:33 |
| schestowitz | I like the /. headline | May 08 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft fight for all of us | May 08 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Against people with eye patches and canons | May 08 21:33 |
| *libervisco has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 08 21:34 | |
| MinceR | harr! | May 08 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Freeriders would be a better fit as a fair word in this case | May 08 21:34 |
| MinceR | well, pirates are cool now :> | May 08 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=B0AACB27-707D-4ED1-8BD9-25A821096281&displaylang=en | May 08 21:35 |
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| schestowitz | Today in the news: Pirate Party 3rd Largest Political Party in Sweden http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-party-3rd-largest-political-party-in-sweden-090506/ | May 08 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | Service Pack 3 for Windows Embedded for Point of Service and Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs | May 08 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | no wonder the XP SP3 package refused to install | May 08 21:36 |
| MinceR | wow, MICROS~1 is trying to win the Longest Product Name Award | May 08 21:36 |
| MinceR | in casual conversation, it's probably better to just call that WINDOW~1 | May 08 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Blackbetter on open source: "There may be parts it makes sense to open source - BlackBerry has a rich and strong environment and it delivers on a set of promises. There may be some open source stuff that makes sense. Different parts of the app set makes sense to open source [but] it hasn't been a big pressure point [for RIM]." | May 08 21:37 |
| schestowitz | http://networks.silicon.com/telecoms/0,39024659,39427547,00.htm | May 08 21:37 |
| amd-linux | r8, especially since u have to pay royalties for filenames longer than 8.3... | May 08 21:37 |
| schestowitz | yes | May 08 21:38 |
| schestowitz | that's what harald sez | May 08 21:38 |
| schestowitz | GENUINE ADVANT~1 | May 08 21:38 |
| amd-linux | lol :_) | May 08 21:38 |
| toros | rotfl :) | May 08 21:38 |
| amd-linux | btw, heise has a new english website, just in case u guys do not already have on your RSS lists: | May 08 21:39 |
| amd-linux | http://www.h-online.com | May 08 21:39 |
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| wispygalaxy | hi everyone! | May 08 21:39 |
| toros | that's funny... they made a crippled filesystem with 8.3 filenames (even Commodore 64 could more) | May 08 21:39 |
| wispygalaxy | hey toros | May 08 21:40 |
| toros | then they made an ugly hack for this filesystem | May 08 21:40 |
| DaemonFC | VFAT | May 08 21:40 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 21:40 |
| toros | and then they forced everybody to support this crippled, faulty by design filesystem | May 08 21:40 |
| amd-linux | 8.3 was enhanced by MiNT, an Atari Gemdos enhancement in 1994 | May 08 21:40 |
| toros | and now they even attack people because of using it | May 08 21:40 |
| wispygalaxy | hi daemon and amd-linux | May 08 21:40 |
| amd-linux | i just dont find more than articles that indirect proof this :-( | May 08 21:41 |
| amd-linux | Gemdos was file system compatible to MS-DOS | May 08 21:41 |
| toros | MiNT... I remember it... | May 08 21:41 |
| toros | MiNT is not TOS :) | May 08 21:41 |
| amd-linux | many Germans where working on it, Julian Reschke for example | May 08 21:41 |
| wispygalaxy | hey is roy here? | May 08 21:41 |
| toros | it runs on Atari Falcon | May 08 21:42 |
| amd-linux | and ST/TT | May 08 21:42 |
| toros | and maybe Atari TT? | May 08 21:42 |
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| amd-linux | Kobold was a file copy progrm that converted 8.3 to long filenames and vice versa... | May 08 21:43 |
| amd-linux | also Atari ST7TT/Falcon | May 08 21:43 |
| amd-linux | but added this feature past 1995 :-( | May 08 21:44 |
| amd-linux | doh! | May 08 21:44 |
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| toros | ohh, the good old times | May 08 21:45 |
| toros | I was 13 :) | May 08 21:45 |
| amd-linux | me too i started with atari 800 | May 08 21:45 |
| amd-linux | XL | May 08 21:45 |
| amd-linux | Floppy Disk 1050 | May 08 21:46 |
| toros | I started with C64, and then switched to PC (386DX) | May 08 21:46 |
| amd-linux | real machines for real boys :-) | May 08 21:46 |
| toros | but I had later a hardcore Amiga1200 :) | May 08 21:46 |
| schestowitz | More folding: Sparxent to Acquire Data Integration Company, XAware < http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-software/20090506/SF1151906052009-1.html > | May 08 21:46 |
| toros | with powerPC turbocard | May 08 21:46 |
| amd-linux | mee too, switched to 486 for my Fidonet mailbox | May 08 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Hi, wispygalaxy | May 08 21:46 |
| wispygalaxy | hi roy! | May 08 21:47 |
| _Hicham_1 | Hi wispygalaxy! | May 08 21:47 |
| wispygalaxy | im packing up and heading home for the summer, school's out here! | May 08 21:47 |
| schestowitz | amd-linux: I've been subs to Heise for years | May 08 21:47 |
| amd-linux | and I installed OS/2, all 14 or so disks | May 08 21:47 |
| wispygalaxy | hey hicham! | May 08 21:47 |
| trmanco | hi wispygalaxy | May 08 21:48 |
| wispygalaxy | im off until late august from college | May 08 21:48 |
| wispygalaxy | hiya tony :) | May 08 21:48 |
| amd-linux | The H was new to me, I hope they now translate more German news in to English | May 08 21:48 |
| wispygalaxy | tony, are you on summer vacation now? | May 08 21:48 |
| schestowitz | amd-linux: the H is just Heise content | May 08 21:48 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes you see the same posts in both sites | May 08 21:48 |
| schestowitz | c't is a popular source | May 08 21:48 |
| trmanco | wispygalaxy, no, not yet | May 08 21:49 |
| amd-linux | for example, Heise Germany has a Linux website user share of now 14% and it is not a Linux specific site. In contrary to these alleged 1% | May 08 21:49 |
| amd-linux | in the US | May 08 21:49 |
| wispygalaxy | oh thats too bad, tony | May 08 21:49 |
| amd-linux | CT is the last man standing of printed IR | May 08 21:49 |
| schestowitz | amd-linux: we have more Linux visitors than Windows visitors | May 08 21:49 |
| amd-linux | IT magazines | May 08 21:49 |
| schestowitz | WELT is out too? | May 08 21:49 |
| schestowitz | And Spiegel | May 08 21:50 |
| amd-linux | Welt is right wing | May 08 21:50 |
| wispygalaxy | i just wanted to stop by and say hello; i'll be back on monday since im busy this weekend | May 08 21:50 |
| schestowitz | OK | May 08 21:50 |
| amd-linux | Spiegel is more left and tabloid | May 08 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Use the summer for good cause ;-) | May 08 21:50 |
| wispygalaxy | gotta do some spring cleaning at home lol | May 08 21:50 |
| schestowitz | I know I will do COmes like crazy | May 08 21:50 |
| wispygalaxy | haha roy ;) | May 08 21:50 |
| schestowitz | That's my plan for June | May 08 21:50 |
| wispygalaxy | it's such a nice day today; i wish i wore shorts | May 08 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Girls and shorts? | May 08 21:51 |
| amd-linux | On Spiegel Online, Linux last year had a share of 4%? And Spiegel online was no. 332 or something in alexa webstats at that time | May 08 21:51 |
| schestowitz | No dresses or skirts? | May 08 21:51 |
| wispygalaxy | yeah, i got lots of them in different colors roy ;) | May 08 21:51 |
| wispygalaxy | oh i have skirts, too | May 08 21:51 |
| schestowitz | amd-linux: I read that in laptops in Germany, market share for Linux is 6% | May 08 21:51 |
| toros | My small free-software site has twice as much readers using Liferea Feed Reader than Internet Explorer :) | May 08 21:51 |
| wispygalaxy | ok i have to finish up packing, see ya guys! | May 08 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's Firefox masquerading as IE | May 08 21:52 |
| toros | Liferea is az 6%, and IE az 3% :) | May 08 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Some people do that | May 08 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Poor IE | May 08 21:52 |
| wispygalaxy | take care roy ^_^ | May 08 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Such a bad brwwoser | May 08 21:52 |
| schestowitz | You too | May 08 21:52 |
| wispygalaxy | thanks hehe | May 08 21:52 |
| amd-linux | 6% is realistic, yes | May 08 21:53 |
| trmanco | cya wispygalaxy | May 08 21:53 |
| amd-linux | many people use Linux now at home | May 08 21:53 |
| _Hicham_1 | fuck IE | May 08 21:53 |
| wispygalaxy | bye tony, have a nice weekend | May 08 21:53 |
| trmanco | same to you | May 08 21:53 |
| wispygalaxy | ty | May 08 21:53 |
| _Hicham_1 | have a nice vacation wispygalaxy | May 08 21:53 |
| wispygalaxy | hicham, see you soon | May 08 21:53 |
| toros | in Hungary Linux is more popular than MacOS X | May 08 21:53 |
| wispygalaxy | thanks, i will! i cant wait to go to the beach | May 08 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Blackboard To Buy Out Angel Learning < http://www.thejournal.com/articles/24349 > | May 08 21:54 |
| schestowitz | When they sell themselves it means they gave up | May 08 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: did you reply to _Hicham_ ? ;) | May 08 21:54 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, where? | May 08 21:55 |
| schestowitz | See log | May 08 21:55 |
| schestowitz | :-) | May 08 21:55 |
| schestowitz | I kid | May 08 21:55 |
| trmanco | I left my client on focus and I'm might of missed something | May 08 21:55 |
| trmanco | I* | May 08 21:55 |
| trmanco | for a couple of hours, ok I'll check | May 08 21:55 |
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| *_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 08 21:59 | |
| schestowitz | <_Hicham_1> fuck IE | May 08 21:59 |
| schestowitz | <trmanco> same to you | May 08 21:59 |
| schestowitz | :-p | May 08 21:59 |
| _Hicham_1 | hahahahahahaha | May 08 21:59 |
| trmanco | ah crap | May 08 21:59 |
| trmanco | that | May 08 22:00 |
| trmanco | lol | May 08 22:00 |
| trmanco | you missed a dent :-P | May 08 22:00 |
| trmanco | <_Hicham_1> fuck IE | May 08 22:00 |
| trmanco | <wispygalaxy> bye tony, have a nice weekend | May 08 22:00 |
| trmanco | <trmanco> same to you | May 08 22:00 |
| trmanco | <wispygalaxy> ty | May 08 22:00 |
| trmanco | :-P | May 08 22:00 |
| _Hicham_1 | :-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P:-P | May 08 22:00 |
| _Hicham_1 | if I had the time I would reverse engineer internet explorer and compile it natively on linux | May 08 22:01 |
| _Hicham_1 | with ActiveX/OLE and all the fuss | May 08 22:02 |
| trmanco | _Hicham_1, what for, it won't complie | May 08 22:02 |
| trmanco | compile* | May 08 22:02 |
| _Hicham_1 | well, Internet Explorer calls can be mapped to Unix calls | May 08 22:03 |
| _Hicham_1 | I am talking of implementing COM+/OLE on Linux natively | May 08 22:03 |
| _Hicham_1 | that way MFC apps can be run | May 08 22:03 |
| schestowitz | another open source acquisition: QinetiQ Acquires Cyveillance, Inc. to Strengthen Cyber Security Dominance with Leading Open Source Intelligence Solutions < http://networking.itbusinessnet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=738065 > | May 08 22:03 |
| _Hicham_1 | which will have drastic consequences | May 08 22:04 |
| trmanco | #ifdef compiler (GCC) -> crash(1) ;#endif | May 08 22:04 |
| trmanco | wait | May 08 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | May 08 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Just sent it to Microsoft'c oompiler | May 08 22:05 |
| trmanco | #ifdef __GCC__; crash(); #endif | May 08 22:05 |
| schestowitz | It'll self destruct | May 08 22:05 |
| _Hicham_1 | no, the proper preprocessor is : #ifdef __GNUC__ _do_it_the_right_way(free_components); #endif | May 08 22:05 |
| trmanco | wait, let me improve it more | May 08 22:05 |
| _Hicham_1 | and the main loop is is : | May 08 22:06 |
| schestowitz | Gah! I'm tired of articles that say things like "using open source-like methods" | May 08 22:06 |
| schestowitz | Or "in the spirit of open sourcE" | May 08 22:06 |
| schestowitz | To energy, to sex, to wine, food... ANYTHING... open source this and that | May 08 22:07 |
| schestowitz | *sigh* | May 08 22:07 |
| schestowitz | http://www.nextgov.com/nextgov/ng_20090507_9008.php | May 08 22:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.bill-mcminn.com/techreview/winflp.html | May 08 22:07 |
| _Hicham_1 | while(ur_on_linux){feel_at_home(personal_data); dispatch_messages_to_schestowitz;} | May 08 22:07 |
| schestowitz | "One way is to apply open source principles to software development. " | May 08 22:07 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_1: HELO | May 08 22:07 |
| schestowitz | REJECT 501: INBOUND MAIL BLACKLISTED(); | May 08 22:08 |
| trmanco | #ifdef | May 08 22:08 |
| trmanco | __unix__; | May 08 22:08 |
| trmanco | crash(); | May 08 22:08 |
| trmanco | #endif | May 08 22:08 |
| trmanco | #if GCC_VERSION > 1.0 | May 08 22:08 |
| trmanco | blow_up(); | May 08 22:08 |
| schestowitz | eWeek: Researchers Release Bootkit Code Targeting Windows 7 | May 08 22:08 |
| _Hicham_1 | IE already runs on Linux with Wine | May 08 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft patents ODF in Costa Rica < http://bsolano.com/Article39.html > | May 08 22:10 |
| _Hicham_1 | Firefox IE tab have been reported to work on Linux too | May 08 22:10 |
| DaemonFC | WinFLP does indeed work well enough on systems that came with Windows 98 | May 08 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | I just threw it on an old K6/2 550 with 256 megs of RAM | May 08 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | runs fine | May 08 22:16 |
| schestowitz | IT tab? No thanks. :-) | May 08 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | "It is too easy to understand why Microsoft’s motive in not selling Windows Fundamentals to the consumer, fear of poaching sales of Windows Vista and all the new hardware that goes with it." | May 08 22:19 |
| schestowitz | It's for Web designers that test for retarted stuff | May 08 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | well, heh | May 08 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Or users of retarded Web site | May 08 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | he does have a point | May 08 22:19 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: broken window theory | May 08 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft restricted WinFLP and created a market for either Linux adoption or old copies of Windows that don't get security updates | May 08 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Or planned obsolescence | May 08 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | which are prime targets for botnets | May 08 22:20 |
| schestowitz | I used Windows 98 on a partition until 2005 | May 08 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Old laptop | May 08 22:21 |
| schestowitz | 400Mhz | May 08 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | this laptop came with XP | May 08 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | WinFLP runs much better though | May 08 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | I also have a copy of Windows Vista they sent for it | May 08 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | I cheated the Express Upgrade program and got a free Vista Basic disc | May 08 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | it barely runs though | May 08 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | so I got what I paid for :) | May 08 22:22 |
| _Hicham_1 | why even use Windows? | May 08 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: 98 was technically supported til mid-2006 | May 08 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | security patches only | May 08 22:22 |
| _Hicham_1 | I don't even think of developing applications for it | May 08 22:22 |
| _Hicham_1 | I have done an OpenGL program last semester on Windows just because the professor don't use Linux | May 08 22:23 |
| _Hicham_1 | but I hated it | May 08 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | well, ironically Microsoft partners like Starfuck and ScrewUROM are making it so much easier to throw down Windows and walk away | May 08 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | why have it if you can't even run software you legally bought and paid for? | May 08 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 22:23 |
| _Hicham_1 | Win32 API is the most hideous API that I have worked with | May 08 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | and lets not forget Mackerel-Vision | May 08 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | D | May 08 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 08 22:24 |
| _Hicham_1 | better use GTK is you want a cross platform app | May 08 22:24 |
| _Hicham_1 | but I am having problems with GTK OpenGL | May 08 22:24 |
| _Hicham_1 | the doc is confusing | May 08 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | well, companies like EA have basically just about destroyed the last decent excuse to use Windows | May 08 22:25 |
| _Hicham_1 | there is interesting Game Engines on Linux | May 08 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | before you buy a game you have to figure out what the copy restriction DRM is like | May 08 22:26 |
| _Hicham_1 | plus OpenGL is more developer friendly than DirectX | May 08 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | if it's something like SecuROM I don't even buy the game | May 08 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | fuck them | May 08 22:26 |
| _Hicham_1 | DirectX is just a mess | May 08 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | they aren't worth my money | May 08 22:26 |
| _Hicham_1 | there are some interesting games on Linux | May 08 22:26 |
| trmanco | DaemonFC, starforce is worse | May 08 22:26 |
| _Hicham_1 | problem is with testing | May 08 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's ODF snub gets Digg's FP http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_now_attempt_to_fragment_ODF_STANDARDS_SABOTAGE | May 08 22:27 |
| _Hicham_1 | the only game that worked out of the box for me was postal2 | May 08 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | no halfway credible game company will do business with Starforce | May 08 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | not even EA will touch them anymore | May 08 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | You want me to type a serial? fine. | May 08 22:27 |
| trmanco | EA usually uses securom amd safedisc | May 08 22:27 |
| trmanco | and* | May 08 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | You want me to call you and activate it? ok. | May 08 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | You start telling me it's only good on one computer | May 08 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | or that I can only activate it X times | May 08 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | that's way too far | May 08 22:28 |
| schestowitz | Antitrust? For Microsoft? Naaa, give it another 5 years after the impact of crime is irreversible and then fight for 5 years against Microsoft-hired guns like ACT, IASA, and CompTIA to just earn a puny fine. | May 08 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not going to pay $60 for a game to be told I can only activate it 3 times | May 08 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | EVER | May 08 22:29 |
| _Hicham_1 | Games needs intensive testing on Linux | May 08 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | that would be like paying full retail price for a car that would only start 10 times | May 08 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | nobody would put up with that shit | May 08 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | the place would go under | May 08 22:30 |
| _Hicham_1 | do u play games on Linux? | May 08 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | there's only a hand full of decent games that work on Wine | May 08 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | that's fairly hit or miss | May 08 22:30 |
| _Hicham_1 | I am talking about native games | May 08 22:31 |
| _Hicham_1 | no wine games | May 08 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | I only found like 4 of them that I've bought | May 08 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | in the last 8 years | May 08 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Holy Spin (Thurrot), batman. "Open-Source World Rallies Around Microsoft, Thanks It for Adding ODF Support to Office 2007" http://windowsitpro.com/mobile/pda/Article.cfm?ArticleID=102077&News=1 | May 08 22:32 |
| DaemonFC | that's like 1/2 of a decent retail game per year that lands on Linux | May 08 22:32 |
| _Hicham_1 | did they work out of the box? | May 08 22:32 |
| DaemonFC | Holy Freaking Spinjob Ass-Spelunkerman | May 08 22:32 |
| DaemonFC | O RLY? | May 08 22:32 |
| DaemonFC | :)\ | May 08 22:33 |
| DaemonFC | I really hate that man | May 08 22:33 |
| DaemonFC | I mean, liking most of the stuff that comes out of Microsoft might pass | May 08 22:33 |
| DaemonFC | but to him they never do anything bad | May 08 22:33 |
| DaemonFC | even Vista was a great thing | May 08 22:34 |
| schestowitz | #twitter is down for maintenance | May 08 22:34 |
| schestowitz | 4 hours | May 08 22:34 |
| DaemonFC | Vista is OK if you have a really really powerful PC | May 08 22:34 |
| _Hicham_1 | Vista is not OK whatever PC u have | May 08 22:34 |
| schestowitz | :-) | May 08 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Defective by Design | May 08 22:35 |
| DaemonFC | but if your system came with *anything* other than Vista, you're wasting your time trying to upgrade | May 08 22:35 |
| trmanco | Theora encoder improvements : http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2009/05/theora-encoder-improvements.html | May 08 22:35 |
| _Hicham_1 | I will never buy a PC with Windows Preinstalled | May 08 22:35 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'm talking about how it's not doable on systems that are maxed out at like 1 gig of RAM | May 08 22:35 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't really intend to buy a system with Vista, funny story | May 08 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | they said no OS and it came with Vista | May 08 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | *shrugs* | May 08 22:36 |
| _Hicham_1 | fuck Vista shippers a big fuck in their ass | May 08 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | and the other copy I got was cause I got bored and punched in my old laptops serial on HP's Express Upgrade site | May 08 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | and got a copy in the mail | May 08 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 22:36 |
| _Hicham_1 | I am hating Windows everyday more and more | May 08 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | just lucky I guess | May 08 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 08 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | I'm thinking about copying down the serial number off a demo computer and trying that | May 08 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | see if I can get Windows 7 for free | May 08 22:37 |
| _Hicham_1 | If only Linux Distros can unify their package management | May 08 22:37 |
| schestowitz | I see FSF venom now | May 08 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Smears and stuff :--( | May 08 22:38 |
| schestowitz | I suppose those who call FSF things lie "hippies" never bothered to look back at others whose attribution is sheer hypocrisy. | May 08 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: It's like I'm a magnet for Windows CDs | May 08 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 08 22:38 |
| _Hicham_1 | Linux is clean by Design | May 08 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | I've bought one for every 20 I get | May 08 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 08 22:38 |
| _Hicham_1 | everything is controlled | May 08 22:38 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_1: easy with the language buddy | May 08 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Some readers might not like it. | May 08 22:38 |
| _Hicham_1 | what won't they like? | May 08 22:39 |
| schestowitz | <_Hicham_1> fuck Vista shippers a big fuck in their ass | May 08 22:39 |
| schestowitz | We don't need to be classy, but let's not be crude | May 08 22:39 |
| schestowitz | SOme people use it against us | May 08 22:40 |
| schestowitz | Outside IRC | May 08 22:40 |
| _Hicham_1 | I said that once to a PR manager at Microsoft France who came to Morocco | May 08 22:40 |
| _Hicham_1 | to showcase us the latest in Web Development in Visual Studio 2008 | May 08 22:41 |
| _Hicham_1 | fun of the story : Vista wasn't able to detect the Video Projector | May 08 22:42 |
| _Hicham_1 | I offered him a Live Linux CD to help him out | May 08 22:42 |
| _bgtr4 | and he was glad to use it | May 08 22:43 |
| _Hicham_1 | he refused gently and went back to a Windows XP machine | May 08 22:43 |
| _bgtr4 | then he made a vow to never ever use m$ again at presentations | May 08 22:43 |
| _Hicham_1 | He can't | May 08 22:44 |
| _Hicham_1 | he is in PR | May 08 22:44 |
| schestowitz | HAHA | May 08 22:44 |
| schestowitz | the profressional Liars | May 08 22:44 |
| *DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving") | May 08 22:44 | |
| schestowitz | Be careful of an anti-Linux site called "Ubuntu Syndrome". There are others such flamefests. | May 08 22:47 |
| trmanco | lots of people are attacking google again | May 08 22:49 |
| _Hicham_1 | Ubuntu doesn't deserve all the fuss | May 08 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Haha. http://agnipulse.com/2009/05/10-reasons-why-ubuntu-is-a-big-failure-in-india/ | May 08 22:50 |
| schestowitz | "So the Ubuntu Developers should rename the Unmount Option for USB Drives to Safey Remove USB Drive.An icon should also be displayed in the taskbar to Safely Remove USB Drive." | May 08 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Summary: it's not like Windows. Wah Wah!! | May 08 22:50 |
| _Hicham_1 | India is Fedora | May 08 22:50 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: yes, Microsoft funds all sort of cheerleaders to spearhead attacks on Google | May 08 22:50 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_1: aye | May 08 22:50 |
| schestowitz | They have BOSS | May 08 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Probably wasted effort for the most part | May 08 22:51 |
| _Hicham_1 | RedHat India is very active | May 08 22:51 |
| _Hicham_1 | who wasted effort? | May 08 22:51 |
| schestowitz | The suits are spoiling the brew by daemonising communities now. '"Dogpiling" on the OpenSource Community' < http://linuxgeeksunited.blogspot.com/2009/05/dogpiling-on-opensource-community.html > | May 08 22:53 |
| trmanco | PHP 5.3 RC2 Optimized for Windows: http://news.softpedia.com/news/PHP-5-3-RC2-Optimized-for-Windows-111168.shtml | May 08 22:54 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_1: BOSS | May 08 22:54 |
| schestowitz | Say some people I know from India | May 08 22:54 |
| trmanco | if something bad happens to php because of Microsoft, I'll go to the HQ myself and tear the hq apart myself | May 08 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Their explanation sounds plausible and reasonable | May 08 22:55 |
| schestowitz | BOSS does seem to have slowed down a bit | May 08 22:55 |
| *trmanco is sleepy | May 08 22:55 | |
| schestowitz | trmanco: Zend of PHP? | May 08 22:55 |
| trmanco | yes | May 08 22:55 |
| schestowitz | PHP from Zend runs on Linux 95% of the time | May 08 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Zend said so last monthj | May 08 22:55 |
| _Hicham_1 | PHP should be abandoned on Windows | May 08 22:55 |
| schestowitz | They just test it on Winders | May 08 22:55 |
| trmanco | it runs a lot better on linux trust me | May 08 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Winders is the toy platform | May 08 22:56 |
| _Hicham_1 | Windows should be cleaned from Open Source Programs | May 08 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Linux is the big iron :-) | May 08 22:56 |
| _Hicham_1 | Windows must be run with Pirated Only Software | May 08 22:56 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_1: better solution: | May 08 22:56 |
| trmanco | people who program php on windows are programming non-standard php/html | May 08 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Make all FOSS nagware | May 08 22:56 |
| schestowitz | But only on Windows | May 08 22:56 |
| schestowitz | "Pay $5 or get free on Linux" | May 08 22:56 |
| _Hicham_1 | schestowitz : Like old Qt License | May 08 22:57 |
| _Hicham_1 | I really liked old qt license | May 08 22:57 |
| trmanco | one example, if you do not start you php session before any html is sent on *nix system ,the script will throw a warning and will stop, on windows, it doesn't happen... | May 08 22:57 |
| _Hicham_1 | it is the greatest license I have ever seen | May 08 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Tim O'Reilly on the origins of open source < http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source/tim-oreilly-origins-open-source-346 > Will he attribute RMS? | May 08 22:58 |
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| mib_hjwxc4 | http://fora.tv/2009/05/06/Steve_Ballmer_Opportunities_in_Difficult_Times#Microsoft_is_Like_a_Startup_in_Search_Says_Ballmer | May 08 22:58 |
| trmanco | my classmates give me there scripts from time to time to help them fix errors. the thing is, I can't help them because they don't write there code like they are suppose to... | May 08 22:58 |
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| trmanco | it's exhausting to tell them to start there sessions before any html headers are sent, but they just won't listen | May 08 22:59 |
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| trmanco | hahaha | May 08 23:03 |
| trmanco | "PHP tags | May 08 23:03 |
| trmanco | Microsoft Active Server Pages (ASP)-style tags — the shorter version of the PHP tags — are no longer supported. To make sure this is not an issue for your scripts, verify that you aren't using the <% or %> tags in your PHP files. Replace them with <?php and ?>. " | May 08 23:03 |
| trmanco | http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-php-future/ | May 08 23:03 |
| trmanco | stupid asp tags are finally going to be kicked out | May 08 23:04 |
| _Hicham_1 | fuck ASP pages | May 08 23:06 |
| schestowitz | I Had a Dell Recall Battery? An Ubuntu 9.04 Feature Told Me So. < http://www.geeknewscentral.com/2009/05/07/i-had-a-dell-recall-battery-an-ubuntu-904-feature-told-me-so/ > | May 08 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Which project will win best Commercial Open Source Project? < http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source/which-project-will-win-best-commercial-open-source-project-739 > | May 08 23:08 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: building a url shortener? | May 08 23:09 |
| trmanco | IBM tackles Microsoft with blade servers and cloud services: http://www.betanews.com/article/IBM-tackles-Microsoft-with-blade-servers-and-cloud-services/1241808583 | May 08 23:09 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, yeah | May 08 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Any others? | May 08 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Like prior ones? | May 08 23:09 |
| schestowitz | tinyurl loses momentum | May 08 23:09 |
| schestowitz | After a head start | May 08 23:09 |
| trmanco | I already have deprecated functions | May 08 23:09 |
| schestowitz | snipurl also | May 08 23:09 |
| trmanco | bt.ly | May 08 23:09 |
| schestowitz | is that foss? | May 08 23:09 |
| trmanco | there is a bunch | May 08 23:09 |
| trmanco | og fosse | May 08 23:09 |
| trmanco | kissabe | May 08 23:10 |
| schestowitz | og? | May 08 23:10 |
| trmanco | http://code.google.com/p/kissabe/ | May 08 23:10 |
| trmanco | http://kissa.be/ | May 08 23:10 |
| schestowitz | It would be nice to make shortener in my site | May 08 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Or pastebins | May 08 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Or photobin | May 08 23:10 |
| schestowitz | on one's own domain | May 08 23:10 |
| schestowitz | I have lots of programs on schestowitz.com | May 08 23:10 |
| schestowitz | PHP for the most part | May 08 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Even spreadsheet | May 08 23:11 |
| schestowitz | And cite manager | May 08 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Diary/calendar | May 08 23:11 |
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| *_Hicham_1 (n=hicham@wana-99-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 08 23:11 | |
| *_Hicham_1 is now known as _Hicham_ | May 08 23:11 | |
| trmanco | pastebin is also gpl'ed | May 08 23:12 |
| *toros has quit ("leaving") | May 08 23:12 | |
| schestowitz | Here's one of those blogs that just pose a question echoing something that's actually news: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=593 Will Linux own the cloud? | May 08 23:16 |
| schestowitz | Blankenhorn does this a lot | May 08 23:16 |
| schestowitz | I hate it when people compare foss to sports: http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2009/05/07/football-clubs-and-free-software-projects/ | May 08 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Anything religious or tribal being associated with FOSS is hurtful to the scientific image | May 08 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Seattle man attacks Ubuntu: "My name is Matthew, I’m currently residing in Seattle, WA." http://gramourshots.com/about/ | May 08 23:25 |
| schestowitz | The apple doesn't fall far from the Redmond | May 08 23:25 |
| schestowitz | Troubled Times: The X.org As We Know It, Is Over… < http://www.linuxcauldron.com/?p=697 > | May 08 23:26 |
| MinceR | gn | May 08 23:39 |
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| LastGuyonEarth | Howdy. | May 08 23:42 |
| schestowitz | Hey | May 08 23:45 |
| schestowitz | What's up? | May 08 23:45 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I'm just working on making my laptop Free Software-compatible. | May 08 23:45 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I'm working on getting rid of AIM, MSN, Yahoo, proprietary social networks, etc. | May 08 23:46 |
| LastGuyonEarth | The only downside is that I'll have to buy a new wireless card with Free firmware/drivers/ | May 08 23:46 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Kind of an exciting week for me, really. | May 08 23:46 |
| schestowitz | There is a company that sells pCs with gnewsense | May 08 23:47 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Los Alamos? | May 08 23:47 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I've read about them. Promising, but I'm just going to make do with what I have for the time being. | May 08 23:47 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Here's a blog post with some of my plans, anyways. | May 08 23:47 |
| LastGuyonEarth | http://seanrtilley.blogspot.com/2009/05/new-refactoring-for-me.html | May 08 23:47 |
| schestowitz | http://laclinux.com/gnu/News#20080501.1 | May 08 23:48 |
| LastGuyonEarth | *reads* | May 08 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Hey, Sean | May 08 23:48 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Howdy, Roy. | May 08 23:48 |
| schestowitz | I can now correlate to comments | May 08 23:48 |
| LastGuyonEarth | How's life on your end? | May 08 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Oh wait | May 08 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Wonderboy | May 08 23:49 |
| schestowitz | I know the blog | May 08 23:49 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Yeah, I went fully on command-line for 30 days last year. | May 08 23:49 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 08 23:49 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I've been all over the computing world, and am finally settling down. | May 08 23:49 |
| schestowitz | TuxMachines followed it | May 08 23:49 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Unix was fun for a while, but I'm done with it. | May 08 23:49 |
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| LastGuyonEarth | But ultimately I'm focusing on making my life as Free from proprietary companies/software/platforms as possible. | May 08 23:51 |
| schestowitz | With GPU it's challenging | May 08 23:51 |
| schestowitz | I use nvidia drivers | May 08 23:51 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Nouveau is making progress. | May 08 23:52 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I'm not sure as to whether the Radeon still has that undocumented code in it. | May 08 23:52 |
| schestowitz | AMD released new stuff today | May 08 23:53 |
| schestowitz | is | May 08 23:53 |
| schestowitz | *ish | May 08 23:53 |
| schestowitz | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_r600_700_guide&num=1 | May 08 23:53 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Yeah, I read about that a bit. | May 08 23:54 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Did they remove the undocumented code from it yet? | May 08 23:54 |
| LastGuyonEarth | It would make it ever so lovely. | May 08 23:54 |
| LastGuyonEarth | If not, I can live with waiting for stable nouveau drivers. | May 08 23:54 |
| schestowitz | F11 will have them | May 08 23:56 |
| schestowitz | AlanW did a marathon for it even | May 08 23:57 |
| schestowitz | I think f11 is a month away | May 08 23:57 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Good for them. | May 08 23:57 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I've never been too fond of RPM-based package management myself. | May 08 23:57 |
| LastGuyonEarth | It seems to take forever on my clunky old machines. | May 08 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Put it in another virtual desktop and forget about it | May 08 23:59 |
| LastGuyonEarth | lol | May 08 23:59 |
| schestowitz | I just put it in desktop 7 | May 08 23:59 |
| LastGuyonEarth | While that sounds all good and dandy, I'm more comfortable with APT myself. | May 08 23:59 |
| schestowitz | I have this picture of my grandfather | May 08 23:59 |
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