IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 10th, 2009

DavidGerardFSF can't tell if it's free or not, it's so convolutedMay 10 00:00
schestowitzDaemonFC: guide to using Windows Meh CD in Ubuntu: http://helpforlinux.blogspot.com/2009/05/erase-cd-rwdvd-rw-in-ubuntu.htmlMay 10 00:00
twitterha haMay 10 00:00
DavidGerardthe patent provsions are *ludicrous*May 10 00:00
DavidGerardyeahMay 10 00:00
DavidGerardwine was interested because there's a pile of 16-bit conformance tests that gcc chokes onMay 10 00:01
DavidGerardopenwatcom would be goodMay 10 00:01
DavidGerardbut wine won't use it unless it's free softwareMay 10 00:01
DavidGerardand that license is RIDICULOUSMay 10 00:01
DavidGerardread itMay 10 00:01
schestowitzUbuntu 9.10 soon available for download (as alpha): http://www.linuxcompatible.org/Ubuntu_9.10_Alpha_1_freeze_ahead_s129055.htmlMay 10 00:01
twitterno thank, I'll stick with kate and kdebgMay 10 00:01
twitterkdbgMay 10 00:01
*schestowitz reads licMay 10 00:02
DavidGerardyaaaaaay! i was quite impressed with 9.04 - they managed to not only break wifi (as usual) but actually broke wired networking as wellMay 10 00:02
twitterwill roy laugh or cryMay 10 00:02
schestowitz"1.8 "Personal Use" means use of Covered Code by an individual solely for his or her personal, private and non-commercial purposes. An individual's use of Covered Code in his or her capacity as an officer, employee, member, independent contractor or agent of a corporation, business or organization (commercial or non-commercial) does not qualify as Personal Use. "May 10 00:02
schestowitzEt tu, ESR?May 10 00:03
DavidGerardthe patent provisions are the good bitMay 10 00:03
DavidGerardthat's what made debian go WHAT HAHAHAHA NO FUCK OFFMay 10 00:03
schestowitz"2. Permitted Uses; Conditions & Restrictions.Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, Sybase hereby grants You, effective on the date You accept this License and download the Original Code, a world-wide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license, to the extent of Sybase's Applicable Patent Rights and copyrights covering the Original Code, to do the following: "May 10 00:03
twitteryou may use this software in your closet.  you may not use it in a closet at work, only in your house.May 10 00:03
schestowitz"2.3 You expressly acknowledge and agree that although Sybase and each Contributor grants the licenses to their respective portions of the Covered Code set forth herein, no assurances are provided by Sybase or any Contributor that the Covered Code does not infringe the patent or other intellectual property rights of any other entity. "May 10 00:04
DavidGerardi mean, if you had a license that said "you may freely study use modify and redistribute if you attach a 100kg gold bar to every copy" that would technically be a free software licenceMay 10 00:04
twitterany good stuff about "no reverse engineering"?May 10 00:04
schestowitz"You hereby grant to Sybase and all third parties a non-exclusive, royalty-free license, under Your Applicable Patent Rights and other intellectual property rights (other than patent) owned or controlled by You, to use, reproduce, display, perform, modify, distribute and Deploy Your Modifications of the same scope and extent as Sybase's licenses under Sections 2.1 and 2.2. "May 10 00:04
MinceR"non-commercial" means it doesn't fit the OSDMay 10 00:04
DavidGerardMinceR: OSI approved it!May 10 00:04
MinceRwell, they're stupid thenMay 10 00:04
DavidGerard(me: o_0 )May 10 00:04
schestowitz"5. Limitations on Patent License. Except as expressly stated in Section 2, no other patent rights, express or implied, are granted by Sybase herein. Modifications and/or Larger Works may require additional patent licenses from Sybase which Sybase may grant in its sole discretion. "May 10 00:05
schestowitzWow. This is creepyMay 10 00:05
schestowitzOSI approved?May 10 00:05
DavidGerardfsf were interested in debian's reasoningMay 10 00:05
DavidGerardi forwarded the list discussion, but it was basically picking out the stupidest bits and everyone on the list going "HAHAHA"May 10 00:05
schestowitzDavidGerard: did anyone complain?May 10 00:05
DavidGerardsuch a pity, openwatcom would be a great compiler to have in the free worldMay 10 00:06
DavidGerardanyone from who?May 10 00:06
DavidGerardsybase? openwatcom?May 10 00:06
DavidGerardnoMay 10 00:06
DavidGerardthat i saw anywayMay 10 00:06
schestowitzToasting the birthday of the integrated circuit < http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-10237155-76.html >. Just toast the circuit.. install VistaMay 10 00:06
MinceRoh, they do seem to allow commercial use, just differentlyMay 10 00:07
twitterIf Vista actually destroyed hardware, you could say it had a purpose.May 10 00:07
twittertemporarily reducing your computer to a large resistor is not really a useMay 10 00:07
DavidGerardyour computer is just not MANLY enoughMay 10 00:08
MinceRit's the Radiator program.May 10 00:08
DavidGerardtwitter: you could further all your aims in the computing world by joining the SAVE VISTA! campaignMay 10 00:08
MinceRit makes your computer convert electricity into heat.May 10 00:08
DavidGerardreally. the more vista, the better for the whole computing world.May 10 00:08
DavidGerard( * except microsoft)May 10 00:08
twitterradiators http://www.archive.org/details/RadiatorsMay 10 00:09
schestowitztwitter: it almost broke one man's shredderMay 10 00:09
twitterI saw the shredder video.May 10 00:09
schestowitzthe fiendMay 10 00:09
twitter"It was install Vista in 2 minutes."May 10 00:09
schestowitzcould be fasterMay 10 00:10
schestowitzno talkMay 10 00:10
twitterthe guy was really angry and the shredder did stumbleMay 10 00:10
schestowitzsledgehammer.inf for driverMay 10 00:10
MinceRgnMay 10 00:10
twitterthe rant was better than watching the shiny disk vanishMay 10 00:10
twitterlet me see if I can find it.May 10 00:11
schestowitzthe cd?May 10 00:11
schestowitz:-)(May 10 00:11
twitterYes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwnoMay 10 00:11
schestowitzdid he retuern it to the shop?May 10 00:12
twitterI don't think so.May 10 00:12
schestowitzplastic bag with crystals of vista?May 10 00:12
schestowitz"i comes in 7000 editionsMay 10 00:12
schestowitztogether they almost make a functional osMay 10 00:13
DavidGerardthat video is a thing of beautyMay 10 00:15
DavidGerardi'm posting it to the groupMay 10 00:15
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twitter3.5 million views already.May 10 00:15
DavidGerardhttp://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=83481756967 - just posted it thereMay 10 00:15
twitter"See, it's not even loading well into this machine"May 10 00:16
twitter"there we go, it's loaded."May 10 00:16
twitter"all ready to use.  Wonderful"May 10 00:16
DaemonFCschestowitz: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4908/86634371.pngMay 10 00:17
DaemonFCVirtual Windows 3.11 ModeMay 10 00:17
DaemonFC:)May 10 00:17
twitterdosbox does that too.May 10 00:18
twitterrun it and you realize the fate of all Windoze software.May 10 00:18
DaemonFCto be cloned and run in an emulator 20 years from now?May 10 00:19
DaemonFC:)May 10 00:19
DavidGerardheeMay 10 00:19
twitterto be considered worthlessMay 10 00:19
DaemonFCDOS isn't worthlessMay 10 00:19
twitterWin3.1 isMay 10 00:20
DaemonFCit's still used for some thingsMay 10 00:20
DaemonFCif you use Linux, you have to make a DOS boot CD to flash your BIOSMay 10 00:20
DaemonFC:)May 10 00:20
twittersome people still consider leaches good medicineMay 10 00:20
DavidGerard"Microsoft does not have Apple’s audience of sophisticated consumers, and it’s ridiculous that the company keeps trying to pretend that it does. Microsoft serves an installed base of cheapskates through a blackmailed array of PC hardware companies who are forbidden from selling alternative software by exclusive licensing contracts. It also services, at very high cost to companies, a large number of corporate cube-holders who have noMay 10 00:20
DavidGerardvoice in the technology decisions forced upon them by corporate IT drones."May 10 00:20
schestowitzDaemonFC: what for?May 10 00:20
DavidGerardhey!May 10 00:20
DavidGerardwindows 3.1 is an ECMA standard!May 10 00:20
DaemonFCcause BIOS vendors only make Windows flash tools but usually throw in a DOS utility that can do it tooMay 10 00:21
silentivmDaemonFC, there are some BIOSes which can be flashed from within LinuxMay 10 00:21
schestowitzHuh?May 10 00:21
schestowitzECMAsoft?May 10 00:21
silentivme.g. on Dell laptopsMay 10 00:21
DaemonFCyeah, but I wouldn't buy from DellMay 10 00:21
twitterI wonder if that elevates Win3.1 or demotes OOXML or just put them both on the same level.May 10 00:21
DaemonFCsince buying an Ubuntu box from Dell funds the MPEGLA cartelMay 10 00:21
DaemonFCand the DVD ForumMay 10 00:21
DavidGerardyeah, win16 is actually standardisedMay 10 00:21
silentivmalso this: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4893960926.html?kc=rssMay 10 00:22
DavidGerardECMA-234May 10 00:22
schestowitzECMA is no standardMay 10 00:22
silentivm"Flashrom enables BIOS flashing via Linux"May 10 00:22
schestowitzIt's low standardMay 10 00:22
schestowitzLike standrad briberyMay 10 00:22
DavidGerardhttp://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-234.htmMay 10 00:22
schestowitzIt's by industry for industryMay 10 00:22
DavidGerardthey weren't always as bad as they were with OOXMLMay 10 00:22
schestowitzAnd fiilled with MS croniesMay 10 00:22
schestowitzSo it's just a marketing stampMay 10 00:22
DaemonFCYou notice how a lot of Microsoft extensions usually come about because there's no standard way of doing somethingMay 10 00:22
DavidGerardthey did a good job on 5-1/4" disk standardsMay 10 00:22
DaemonFCenter JSCRIPTMay 10 00:22
schestowitzThat ISO was reduced to the same level is a shameMay 10 00:22
schestowitz[and MS' fault]May 10 00:22
DavidGerardnote the date: dec 1995May 10 00:23
twitterlike M$ Java, FC?May 10 00:23
DavidGerardwin95 was already outMay 10 00:23
DaemonFCmeh, MS JAVA was actually a very good Windows program :)May 10 00:23
DavidGerardthat's why microsoft went "haha, standardise 3.1 if you like"May 10 00:23
DaemonFCbut no, it was not cross platformMay 10 00:23
DaemonFCif you look, they did things like Windows Foundation Classes which sped things up when you went to load interface widgetsMay 10 00:24
twitterI wonder why 3.1 did not work with DRDOS, if it was all standardized and stuff....May 10 00:24
_Hicham_MS Java took advantage of some undocumented Windows APIMay 10 00:24
DaemonFCJAVA is dog slowMay 10 00:24
_Hicham_that is why it was performing betterMay 10 00:24
twitterVista is too, but I saw your screen shot.May 10 00:24
DaemonFChehMay 10 00:24
DaemonFCJava isn't really importantMay 10 00:25
_Hicham_standardized in MS mean bastardizedMay 10 00:25
_Hicham_Java is very importantMay 10 00:25
twitterand marketedMay 10 00:25
DavidGerardDaemonFC: in what context?May 10 00:25
DaemonFCnothing uses JAVAMay 10 00:25
DavidGerardwhat?!May 10 00:26
_Hicham_it is one of the key elementsMay 10 00:26
twitterwoopsMay 10 00:26
_Hicham_hahaMay 10 00:26
DaemonFCyou can go without it and not even miss out on anythingMay 10 00:26
DavidGerardin the commercial world, java is THE platformMay 10 00:26
_Hicham_nice one frome DaemonFCMay 10 00:26
twittershameMay 10 00:26
_Hicham_go without Java?May 10 00:26
_Hicham_hahaMay 10 00:26
twittereven twitter knows betterMay 10 00:26
_Hicham_really greatMay 10 00:26
DaemonFCbut if you install JAVA, suddenly it wants like several hundred megs of disk spaceMay 10 00:26
DaemonFCand it installs new system services without askingMay 10 00:26
DavidGerardthe reason it's used in the commercial world is that it's ridiculously easy to program in/forMay 10 00:27
DaemonFCand opens you up to hundreds of security problemsMay 10 00:27
MinceRi'd call apple drones many things, but "sophisticated consumer" isn't one of them.May 10 00:27
DavidGerardand then you throw hardware at itMay 10 00:27
twitterpeople who use Windows should be used to all of thatMay 10 00:27
DavidGerardthis is how it actually worksMay 10 00:27
twitterhuggsMay 10 00:27
DavidGerardusually on linux, the sun hardware is not cost effectiveMay 10 00:27
twitteroh?May 10 00:27
DaemonFCyeah, SPARC and IA-64 are on borrowed timeMay 10 00:27
twitterpitty why are they expensive?May 10 00:28
_Hicham_Python is underestimated in Enterprise WorldMay 10 00:28
twittersparc, not IA64May 10 00:28
DaemonFCwell, the whole idea about having customized hardware like Sun does is so you can sell people on super neat software to go with itMay 10 00:28
_Hicham_I don't see why people favor JavaMay 10 00:28
twittersun used to be computationally efficientMay 10 00:28
DaemonFCbut X86-64 and Linux do the same things much cheaperMay 10 00:29
_Hicham_Java is lots of headaches comparted to PythonMay 10 00:29
DaemonFCor at least well enough to not be able to jsutify expensive Sun boxes and SolarisMay 10 00:29
twitterARM, AMD and PowerPC are all more energy efficient than Intel.May 10 00:29
twitterI thought sparc was too.May 10 00:30
DaemonFCby refusing to open source Solaris much sooner, Sun effectively said they were going to try to be a small development firm in a big worldMay 10 00:30
twitterat that rate, it's just a matter of selling the hardware cheap enoughMay 10 00:30
_Hicham_ARM is Intel's killerMay 10 00:30
twitterIt bugged me to see Apple move from PowerPC.May 10 00:30
DavidGerardsun sells cost-effectvie x86 hardware nowMay 10 00:30
DaemonFCIA-64 is in the wrong ballparkMay 10 00:31
DavidGerardit's very nice actuallyMay 10 00:31
DaemonFCthe whole point is that the hardware is an after thoughtMay 10 00:31
DaemonFCyou basically give that awayMay 10 00:31
DavidGerardthe x4600 is a goddamn beast machineMay 10 00:31
DaemonFCin an effort to sell expensive support contracts for the softwareMay 10 00:31
DavidGerardin fact we have suns running linux and dells running solaris ;-)May 10 00:31
DavidGerardsun's support is pretty good tooMay 10 00:31
DaemonFCand that line of thinking doesn't work as well as it used toMay 10 00:31
DavidGerarddell's server support is damn fine, their boxes are not as good as i'd like thoughMay 10 00:31
twitterThere are a couple of boxes like that where I work.  X86 with OpenSolaris.  It's nice to see all the GNU tools there.May 10 00:31
DavidGerardthis is straight closed solaris 10May 10 00:32
DaemonFCDell Support for consumers is all farmed out to the third worldMay 10 00:32
DavidGerardbut dell is a supported platformMay 10 00:32
DaemonFCand they won't even support UbuntuMay 10 00:32
DavidGerardbugger consumers. we pay for proper support and get it.May 10 00:32
DaemonFCthey make you buy separate supportMay 10 00:32
DavidGerardserver support is like a different company.May 10 00:32
DavidGerardtheir consumer kit is candy floss.May 10 00:32
DavidGerardmy last work dell laptop was a latitude d610May 10 00:32
DavidGerardliterally every part of it was replaced except the memory and the lcdMay 10 00:33
DavidGerardliterally.May 10 00:33
twitterouchMay 10 00:33
DavidGerardthat said, i still want an inspiron mini 9May 10 00:33
DavidGerardi'm a sucker for gadgetsMay 10 00:33
twitterwhy not get an iphone?  ha haMay 10 00:33
DavidGerardtell you what, if an ipod touch cost half what it does i'd have oneMay 10 00:34
DavidGerardit's actually usable as a casual browserMay 10 00:34
twitteryes, it is.May 10 00:34
DavidGerardits raison d'etre is (1) casual web browsing (2) musicMay 10 00:34
DavidGerardi have a phone for phone callsMay 10 00:34
DavidGerardthat saidMay 10 00:34
twitterthe crime is how long it took for someone to sell one in the US and how limited the competition is still.May 10 00:34
DaemonFCMicrosoft thinks they're going to bput Windows 7 Starter on netbooxMay 10 00:34
DaemonFC*netbooksMay 10 00:34
DavidGerardi'm stealing my wife's nokia 5800 to use it as an mp3 playerMay 10 00:34
DaemonFCand people will throw down XP for thatMay 10 00:35
DavidGerardwindows 7 is really not all that badMay 10 00:35
DavidGerardit benchmarks as slow as vistaMay 10 00:35
DavidGerardbut the interface is much more responsiveMay 10 00:35
DavidGerardand a bit more consistent in designMay 10 00:35
DavidGerardthe trouble isMay 10 00:35
DavidGerardthere's no reason for people to want it.May 10 00:35
DaemonFCyou can improve on Vista with vLiteMay 10 00:35
DavidGerardyeahMay 10 00:35
DavidGerardwin7 is ehh okayMay 10 00:35
twitteryou can improve a sharp stick in the eye by pulling it out.May 10 00:36
DavidGerardbut it's unfortunate that basically, there's no reason for anyone to want this thing.May 10 00:36
DavidGerardit's really quite usable in my experienceMay 10 00:36
DavidGerard(a vm where i gave it 512MB)May 10 00:36
DaemonFChttp://www.vlite.net/img/shots/ss4.pngMay 10 00:36
DavidGerardbut very fat and slow and thirstyMay 10 00:36
DaemonFCB-)May 10 00:36
DavidGerardDaemonFC: referrer errorMay 10 00:37
DaemonFChttp://www.vlite.net/about.htmlMay 10 00:37
DaemonFC4th image downMay 10 00:37
DavidGerardok that works :-)May 10 00:37
DavidGerardahhahahaaMay 10 00:37
DaemonFCif you take out Application Experience, a lot of XP-era software will start fucking upMay 10 00:38
DaemonFC:)May 10 00:38
twitteryou people are sickMay 10 00:39
DavidGerardbrbMay 10 00:39
DaemonFCit's basically a set of compatibility shims that make Vista behave more like XP wouldMay 10 00:39
DaemonFCon programs that are known to break on VistaMay 10 00:39
twitterwhy do you know these things?May 10 00:39
DaemonFCheheMay 10 00:40
DaemonFCthere's a lot of fluff you can safely remove from XP or VistaMay 10 00:42
DaemonFCit's possible to get an XP ISO to 250 megs without removing anything real importantMay 10 00:42
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DavidGerardi think it's useful to know what windows 7 is actually like when criticising itMay 10 00:45
DavidGerardnow if only we could get the windows shills to download ubuntu and try itMay 10 00:45
DaemonFCmeh, more incompatible softwareMay 10 00:45
DavidGerardthere's a slashdot troll who keeps saying thatMay 10 00:45
DaemonFCmore incompatible hardwareMay 10 00:45
DavidGerardi wonder if he's a double trollMay 10 00:45
DaemonFCeach release of Windows basically provides hardware makers an excuse to let all their old drivers breakMay 10 00:45
DaemonFCso they can refuse to make new versions and sell you more hardwareMay 10 00:46
twitterYou can criticize Windows 7 based on it's licensing and the performance issues other people report.May 10 00:47
DaemonFCso you have to figure in not only the Windows license costMay 10 00:47
DaemonFCbut all the hardware you have to throw awayMay 10 00:47
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DavidGerardtwitter: actually using it is something that is not a replaceable experienceMay 10 00:47
DavidGerardlike criticising apple kit based on the feature list and bill of materialsMay 10 00:48
DavidGerardthat's not what they're sellingMay 10 00:48
twitteryes, you never get the time back :)May 10 00:48
DavidGerardhehMay 10 00:48
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DavidGerardi'll happily acknowledge win7's strengthsMay 10 00:48
DavidGerardbut that just makes its failure even tastierMay 10 00:48
twitterI don't need to use Windows 7 to know that it's basically like any other versions of Windows with more restrictions crammed on.May 10 00:48
DavidGerardthere is that ;-)May 10 00:49
DavidGerardi don't even begrudge it being a fat bastard for the shiny interfaceMay 10 00:49
DavidGerardkde and gnome are goddamn fat as well for the same reasonMay 10 00:49
DavidGerardthe issue is of course that with those you have a choiceMay 10 00:49
twitterchoice and performanceMay 10 00:49
DavidGerardmasses of cpu and memory on a shiny interface are in fact the most appropriate possible use for the byproducts of moore's lawMay 10 00:49
DavidGerardkde4 is fat and slow, but i'm not voluntarily going back to kde3May 10 00:50
DavidGerardcos kde4 is loooovelyMay 10 00:50
twitteryou can run compiz fusion on hardware that XP has trouble on.May 10 00:50
twitterE17 is lovelyMay 10 00:50
DavidGerardi'm blaming the intel 965 driver on this laptopMay 10 00:50
DavidGerardwhiz bang 3d interfaces are actually a good and important ideaMay 10 00:50
DavidGerardapple was right. gnome was right. kde was right.May 10 00:51
twitterwhy not spend your time learning, loving and fixing E17 instead of suffering with Vista 7?May 10 00:51
DavidGerardbut being pretty (at last! imagine, a microsoft os that's actually pretty!) is not going to save win7.May 10 00:51
DavidGerardi was actually trying to compile wine on it.May 10 00:51
DavidGerardthat was my reason for trying it.May 10 00:51
twitterVista is butt ugly.May 10 00:51
DavidGerardnah, vista is pretty until you try using itMay 10 00:51
twitterthe buttons are hideousMay 10 00:52
twitterthat stands out right away.May 10 00:52
DavidGerardwhen i had to install a camera driver cd on a friend's vista laptop from the command line because the explorer window REFUSED to acknowledge the software folder existed ...May 10 00:52
DavidGerardthat was specialMay 10 00:52
twitterwhy did they cut the buttons in half?  It's not like they had a screen space issue.May 10 00:52
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twitterI have to use Office 2007 from time to time.  It is also butt ugly.May 10 00:53
twitterI hate that stupid button in the corner and how it glowers red and gold at you.May 10 00:53
twitterIt's like a red hot poker in your face.May 10 00:53
twitterI'll take KDE 3.5 over that mess.May 10 00:54
DavidGerardyou poor soulMay 10 00:54
twitterNo, the usability issues are in the details.May 10 00:55
twitterKDE rocks for that.May 10 00:55
DavidGerardyes, yes it doesMay 10 00:55
DavidGerardpity no-one's particularly interested in maintaining 3.5May 10 00:55
twitterfile dialogs that make sense and have a good memory stands out.May 10 00:55
DavidGerard(i mean, anyone who's actually prepared to do the hard labour, not just complain)May 10 00:55
DavidGerardwhen moving people off windows xp, kde 3.5 is just the thing for themMay 10 00:56
twitterI'd rather put my time into KDE 4.May 10 00:56
DavidGerardit's like xp but it works and makes senseMay 10 00:56
DavidGerardpreciselyMay 10 00:56
DavidGerardIME kde4 just confuses themMay 10 00:56
DavidGerard4.2 isn't quite windows-refugee-ready yetMay 10 00:56
twitter4 will have the same usability in the endMay 10 00:56
DavidGerardfor sureMay 10 00:56
DavidGerardhehMay 10 00:56
twitterso it's better to help it out.  3.5 works fine.May 10 00:56
DavidGerardi used to get confused between my kde 3.5 laptop and my win2k work desktopMay 10 00:57
twitterhow?May 10 00:57
DavidGerardi'd wonder why something wasn't on one which actually belonged to the otherMay 10 00:57
DavidGerardbecause the interfaces are very similar, and in both i basically spent my time in firefox and vlcMay 10 00:57
DavidGerardat that level the os is a minor detailMay 10 00:57
twitterEvery day I miss Konqueror.May 10 00:57
DavidGerardoperating systems are basically uninteresting and *should* be basically uninterestingMay 10 00:58
DavidGerardno-one runs an os. they run apps.May 10 00:58
twitterC:May 10 00:58
DavidGerardkonq is my very favourite file browser ever.May 10 00:58
twitterthat's all I have to say about that.May 10 00:58
DavidGerardkde4 konq is still not up to kde3 konqMay 10 00:58
twitterYou can't make that kind of thing easy to use.  It's a mess and will always be insane.May 10 00:58
DavidGerardas a file browserMay 10 00:58
DavidGerardno indeedMay 10 00:59
DavidGerardexplorer is horrible because it exposes a horrible systemMay 10 00:59
DavidGerard(as well as being horrible anyway)May 10 00:59
twitterthe OS makes a difference because it is poorly organized and insane.May 10 00:59
DavidGerardyes, it makes a differenceMay 10 00:59
DavidGerardbut it's not the point of the exerciseMay 10 00:59
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twitterWhen you have real work to do in different places on a network, getting to them is really the point.May 10 00:59
DavidGerardmost of the time i just care that i'm on a unix.May 10 01:00
twitterKonq does that fantastically.May 10 01:00
DavidGerardwhether it's ubuntu or red hat or centos or mac os x or freebsd makes very little differenceMay 10 01:00
twitterWindows is insane and periodically forgets everything.May 10 01:00
DavidGerardor even cygwin come to thatMay 10 01:00
DavidGerardat work we are cursed with some windows serversMay 10 01:00
DavidGerardfor proprietary software we can't get away fromMay 10 01:00
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twitterput a dunce cap on it and stick it in the corner.May 10 01:01
DavidGerardwe have increased their sanity level considerably by installing cygwin on all of them and starting sshdMay 10 01:01
twitteroh, don't go there.May 10 01:01
DavidGerardthis means we can do things like run bash scripts as nagios plugins for monitoringMay 10 01:01
DavidGerardwe can't get rid of the damn things, this makes things so much less worseMay 10 01:01
twitterI hope you have a special password for all the Windows boxes.May 10 01:01
DavidGerardyeah, 'password123'May 10 01:01
DavidGerardcoughMay 10 01:01
twitterthat is more secure than using a real one.May 10 01:02
DavidGerardthis is on a severely isolated intranetMay 10 01:02
twittergoodMay 10 01:02
twitterRoy's hospital stories make me cringe.May 10 01:02
DavidGerardcygwin on all winders boxes and sshd enabled makes windows barely tolerable in a real working environmentMay 10 01:02
DavidGerardwe use linux and solaris for the real workMay 10 01:03
DavidGerardsome old sol9/sparc and fedora core 3May 10 01:03
DaemonFCpassword123May 10 01:03
DaemonFCWindows: You need to capitalize at least one letterMay 10 01:03
DavidGerardbut the new stuff is all rhel4/centos4 and sol10 on x86-64May 10 01:03
DaemonFCUser: Password123May 10 01:03
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twitterpASSword123May 10 01:04
DavidGerardwindows password rules are such a ridiculous nuisance for so little effectMay 10 01:04
DavidGerardso - if you're stuck with windows, quit and become a bum. if you can't do that, install cygwin on them all.May 10 01:04
twitterit's a show, not a featureMay 10 01:05
DavidGerardand enable sshd.May 10 01:05
DaemonFChttp://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10236815-93.htmlMay 10 01:05
DaemonFCGoogle Chrome ads coming to TVMay 10 01:05
DavidGerardhttp://notnews.today.com/2009/05/07/debian-forks-glibc-over-drepper/computer-bum/May 10 01:05
DavidGerardyeahMay 10 01:06
DavidGerardthey're desperate to get uptake on that thingMay 10 01:06
DavidGerardit's a really nice browser actually. i really wish the linux version worked properly. i'd use it by preference. lack of adblock and all.May 10 01:06
DavidGerardit really is wicked fastMay 10 01:06
DavidGerardi'm surprised it's got no mindshareMay 10 01:07
DavidGerardi guess the magic 'g' brandname isn't all that instant successMay 10 01:07
twitteranother non free browser, who cares?May 10 01:07
DavidGerardchromium, the unbranded version, is freeMay 10 01:07
twitterwe will see if it succeeds when they push out Android.May 10 01:07
DavidGerardchrome is chromium with brandingMay 10 01:07
twitterI see.  Interesting.May 10 01:08
twitterMost people don't care, so they will just use chrome on Android.May 10 01:09
twitterThey might try it on Windows.  Anything is better than IE.May 10 01:09
DavidGerard"We are so, so happy with Google Chrome. That most of our income is from Google has no bearing on me making this statement." - John Lilly, Mozilla (through gritted teeth).May 10 01:10
DavidGerard"Browsers don't need to be integrated with online apps. Certainly not like the operating system ... I'll just get back to you." - Ian Moulster, Microsoft IE Team.May 10 01:10
DavidGerard"We're Google. We know where you live. In a completely not evil way. Sponsored link: Get Chrome Browsers on google.com. Or we'll make you use Windows Live." - Larry Page.May 10 01:10
twitterha haMay 10 01:10
twitterYour twisted sense of humor comes from running twisted software.May 10 01:11
DavidGerardhah!May 10 01:12
DavidGerardwindows live search is being largely replaced with lucene!May 10 01:12
DavidGerardhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10235400-16.htmlMay 10 01:12
DavidGerardthey're kicking out the present team for powersetMay 10 01:12
DavidGerardwho are doing the kumo projectMay 10 01:12
DavidGerardlargely rebranding luceneMay 10 01:12
*DavidGerard finds this deeply hilarious on many levelsMay 10 01:12
DavidGerardlucene is written in java. hosted by apache foundation.May 10 01:13
DavidGerardthere's a c# version but it runs at half the speed.May 10 01:13
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DavidGerardoh that's just precious.May 10 01:13
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twitterit is amazingMay 10 01:14
DavidGerardtwitter: you should go back and read john lilly's blog post aroudn the time of chrome. that's more or less what he said. man, if someone ever wrote a blog post with his testicles in a vice.May 10 01:15
DavidGerardand the "Browsers don't need to be integrated with online apps" is a word for word quote from moulster.May 10 01:15
twitterI'll believe they are using and making free software, not "open source", when I see it.May 10 01:15
DavidGerardmicrosoft distributes gpl softwareMay 10 01:15
DavidGerardlarge chunks of interixMay 10 01:15
DavidGerardthey obey the licence and allMay 10 01:15
DavidGerardthey just don't ever, EVER talk about itMay 10 01:16
twitterand coat it with poison, I'm sure.May 10 01:16
DavidGerardwell, it's crappy to useMay 10 01:16
twitterwhen M$ is serious about free software, Windows will be GPL'dMay 10 01:16
DavidGerardthey make gnu software feel like unix from the 1990sMay 10 01:16
DaemonFCChrome and IE 8 do both beat Firefox on one thingMay 10 01:16
DavidGerardpainful and command line and crappyMay 10 01:16
DaemonFCFirefox is still a single-process single-threaded applicationMay 10 01:17
DavidGerardbut interix could pass open group certification pretty easily if microsoft had a business reason to get windows declared unixMay 10 01:17
DavidGerardimoMay 10 01:17
DaemonFCIE 8 and Chrome can resurrect a tab that crashesMay 10 01:17
DaemonFCin Firefox, this takes out the whole browserMay 10 01:17
DavidGerardyeah. i've wished for that for firefox since about 1.5.May 10 01:17
twitterAs M$'s revenues tank, they will have plenty of business reasons to rethink their business.May 10 01:18
twitterbbl, it's dinner time.May 10 01:18
DavidGerardthey dont' have a replacement for ballmer.May 10 01:18
DavidGerardjust imagine: every possible replacement is *worse*.May 10 01:18
DaemonFCmeh, most of the damage to Microsoft's stock could no thave been avoided with the stock market working the way it doesMay 10 01:18
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DaemonFCspeculative pricing is what's killing their stock, not assets or net worthMay 10 01:19
DavidGerardevery exec with talent is getting the fuck outMay 10 01:19
DavidGerard(as well as ones without talent. leaving ms is not a sign of talent.)May 10 01:19
*DavidGerard is off to bed nowMay 10 01:19
DavidGerardnight allMay 10 01:19
DaemonFCMicrosoft knows what they're doingMay 10 01:19
DaemonFCwhether that's a good thing for everyone else is not related to thatMay 10 01:20
DavidGerardDaemonFC: they think they do. evidence: vista. zune.May 10 01:20
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DaemonFCmeh, XP didn't have strong numbers for a while and everyone was staying with 98 because the transition was painfulMay 10 01:20
DaemonFCbut after enough people go to the next version and Microsoft stops making any updates for the one you're onMay 10 01:21
DaemonFCthey pick you up and the rest of the stragglersMay 10 01:21
DaemonFCif you want to see an OS that's painful to do anything with, look at NT 4May 10 01:22
DaemonFCbut you still see some businesses that use itMay 10 01:22
DaemonFCbusinesses inherently want to put something in place and forget about itMay 10 01:22
DaemonFCbecause they're talking thousands of licenses, thousands of machines to maintain, etc.May 10 01:23
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DaemonFCschestowitz: NT 4 SP6 is only 40 megsMay 10 01:25
DaemonFCand was cumulativeMay 10 01:25
DaemonFCthat kind of made me laughMay 10 01:25
DaemonFCVista SP2 is over 750 megsMay 10 01:26
DaemonFCand requires SP1May 10 01:26
DaemonFCthe development method behind Chrome is kind of impressiveMay 10 01:29
DaemonFCreally I see Webkit taking over the worldMay 10 01:32
DaemonFCit's more efficient and the source is cleaner and easier to understand than Mozilla GeckoMay 10 01:32
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BalrogDaemonFC: doesn't Webkit have more exploitable bugs?May 10 01:48
Balrog(or that's what I hear)May 10 01:48
DaemonFCnoMay 10 01:48
DaemonFCif anything, the design of Gecko more closely resembles that of Internet Explorer's TridentMay 10 01:49
DaemonFCthan any other engine out thereMay 10 01:49
DaemonFCit doesn't actually replicate every bad design decision of MSIEMay 10 01:49
DaemonFCbut it's too close for comfortMay 10 01:50
DaemonFCand even Microsoft has been moving away from some of the bad things they used to do that Firefox still doesMay 10 01:50
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oiaohmhttp://www.linuxjournal.com/content/should-software-developers-be-liable-their-code  This is interesting.May 10 01:55
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twitterYeah  FC, M$FT might not be trading at less than half their Y2K value today if they had a product people liked.May 10 02:08
twitterXP bombed then Vista bombed even worse.May 10 02:08
oiaohmXP really did not bomb.May 10 02:09
oiaohmIts still sold well.May 10 02:09
twitterno?  It took about 3 years for it to reach 50% of their users.May 10 02:09
twitterPeople hated it but bought it because they thought they had no choice.  It only looks good next to Vista.May 10 02:10
oiaohmIt takes on adverage 3 years for most comonallly used applications to move.May 10 02:11
twitterHigh sales for Apple and good GNU/Linux use are the result of it all.  People are concluding, after eight years, that M$ is not going to make a better version of Windows.May 10 02:11
twitterthe trend of increasing resistance for M$ is undeniable, ohm.May 10 02:12
twitteranother sign of their problems is their stagnant and now declining revenue.May 10 02:12
oiaohmXP pro had downgrade rights.May 10 02:13
twitterXP enjoyed some of it's sales from actual computer use growth.May 10 02:13
oiaohmThose downgrade rights have been rarely used.May 10 02:13
oiaohmVista downgrade rights are getting used like its going out of fassion.May 10 02:14
twitterthere's not much of that left and M$ growth has lagged PC market growth.May 10 02:14
oiaohmWhen people are resorting to using downgrade rights you have bombed.May 10 02:14
oiaohmLike windows Me another bomb.May 10 02:14
oiaohmUsers with using downgrade rights to windows 98 se.May 10 02:14
twitterNo, ME bombed because people had "standardized on 98"May 10 02:15
oiaohmDid you ever use ME.May 10 02:15
twitterMy mom used ME for five years.  It was shit but no more than any other version of Winblows.May 10 02:15
oiaohmAll bar a rare combination it would crash without notice remove applications you installed.May 10 02:15
twitterI never saw that, but I can believe it.  My mom's computer came from Dell and she used it like it came.May 10 02:16
oiaohmBasically not usable.  You might have been on the the lucky ones on the rare combination of hardware that it did.May 10 02:16
twitterAs painful as that was, it was nothing special in the world of Windows.May 10 02:16
oiaohmIt was the only OS where MS has been force by consumer support to send windows 98 se disk with key for nothing to effected users.May 10 02:17
twitterXP crashes on me daily.  My favorite error message is when it kills Explorer.May 10 02:17
oiaohmDell machines most of them the right combination of hardware to run ME.May 10 02:17
oiaohmIf you hardware combination was minorally out ME was dead man walking.May 10 02:17
twitterAn operating system should not require hardware voodoo like that, especially when you are M$ monopoly and everyone writes stuff for you anyway.May 10 02:18
twitterMy overall conclusion is that ME simply failed to gain "critical mass"May 10 02:18
twitterXP came close to that itselfMay 10 02:19
twitterVista has set new definitions of bombMay 10 02:19
oiaohmHow are you going to get critical mass when 85 percent of all x86 hardware out there would not run it correctly.May 10 02:19
oiaohmME getting critical mass was impossiable.May 10 02:19
twittercritical mass is when everyone else makes sure it works.May 10 02:19
oiaohmME crash handling made it worse.May 10 02:20
twitterthat's the secret of the M$ monopoly.  it only works because everyone thinks it does and contributes.May 10 02:20
oiaohmThe back ported roll back system from 2000 was highly likely to roll everything back.May 10 02:20
twitterwhen they don't, you get shit like VistaMay 10 02:20
oiaohmIt also does not help that ME was developed in 6 months.May 10 02:20
oiaohmGames would not work on windows 2000 so MS did a rushed back port of features to windows 98 and called it ME.May 10 02:21
twitterM$ relies on the community just as much as any other distribution.May 10 02:21
oiaohmIts scarry how closed Vista got to being as bad as ME.May 10 02:21
twitterSure, M$ can screw things up a little more.  Dumping XP's driver model is a good example of how M$ can sabotage itself.  DRM is another.May 10 02:22
oiaohmVista was planed for years.May 10 02:22
oiaohmME being a rush job stuff you can justify.May 10 02:23
twitterWindows code is just recycled crap they've always had.  None of it is ever a rewrite and none of it is ever much better than the last version.  It's all the same.May 10 02:23
twitterThis is why exploits always work back several generations, XP, 98, 95, as far back as anyone cares to look.May 10 02:23
oiaohm95 windows 3.11 there is a break.May 10 02:24
twitterI'm not sure of that even.May 10 02:24
twitterthey carried a lot of DOS into 95May 10 02:24
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oiaohmwin32s did not contain any OS secuirty in windows 3.11May 10 02:24
twitterthere is no Windows securityMay 10 02:25
oiaohmThere is a little.May 10 02:25
oiaohmNT design does contain well designed secuirty.May 10 02:25
oiaohmBut windows installs don't use it.May 10 02:25
twitterthey've claimed "protection" against viruses, data loss and other nasties all the way back to DOS days but never deliveredMay 10 02:25
twitterNT is a VMS rip off.  I'm sure VMS was more reasonable and better designed.May 10 02:26
oiaohmNT design could be configured like a Unix services could be run as the own users and so on.May 10 02:26
twitteranything would be betterMay 10 02:26
oiaohmMS chooses not to.May 10 02:26
oiaohmSo servers run asMay 10 02:26
oiaohmSystem that is basically root user on NT.May 10 02:27
twitteroh wellMay 10 02:27
oiaohmNT secuirty case is not that the design is flawed.  It is implementation.May 10 02:27
oiaohmYou can have the best OS secuirty design in the world if you stuff its implementation up its useless.May 10 02:28
twitterthey chose the way they did thingsMay 10 02:28
twittera plan of implementation is also known as a designMay 10 02:29
oiaohmXP went a step deeper into hell.May 10 02:29
twitterWindows is defective by design.May 10 02:29
oiaohmXP removed data protection into direct X drivers for speed so adding quite a few secuirty holes.   That alteration does go against NT base design.May 10 02:30
oiaohmtwitter from a secuirty point of view implementation and design are two different things.May 10 02:31
twitternot when the implementer is also the designerMay 10 02:31
oiaohmselinux maybe be well designed but if I apply allow all rules disabling it I have made a implementation flaw.May 10 02:31
twitterespecially when only M$ is able to make the choicesMay 10 02:31
oiaohmThis case inside windows the designer and implementer are different people.May 10 02:32
twitterthat's not implementation anymore, it's design.May 10 02:32
DaemonFCI like how they threw in so many unprofessional things into XP ProfessionalMay 10 02:33
twitterusers care precious little about what the designers wrote on a chalk board if none of it shows up in what they have on their desk.May 10 02:33
DaemonFCand scattered them out into 100 settings the user has to fish around forMay 10 02:33
oiaohmCatch is I apply different implementation to windows machines I operate.May 10 02:34
oiaohmI cannot fix OS design flaws.May 10 02:34
oiaohmMS implementation flaws third parties can choose to change.May 10 02:34
oiaohmThat is the key difference twitter.May 10 02:35
twitterI'm sure all your machines are save and sercure.May 10 02:36
oiaohmI am not sure of that.May 10 02:37
oiaohmThey are as safe as they can be made.May 10 02:37
twitterno they are not.  no one but M$ can fix and compile it.May 10 02:37
oiaohmBy a thrid partyMay 10 02:37
twitterhmph.  stuff that would be fixed right away in the free software world goes broken in the M$ world.May 10 02:38
twitteryou know what the problems are but you can't really fix them.May 10 02:38
twittereven if you could, you would be left with a fork no one else could use.May 10 02:39
oiaohmDirect X is fixable. but you depend on closed source opengl drivers.May 10 02:39
oiaohmWhat are not exactly secure either.May 10 02:39
oiaohmOpen source OS's have lot of the same issues as windows twitter.May 10 02:40
twitterha haMay 10 02:40
oiaohmAs soon as you start using closed source parts problems can start appearing.May 10 02:40
oiaohmDefects have been in glibc for 8 years that do lead to flaws.May 10 02:41
oiaohmLot of the lower level of Opensource has been bit rotting and causing trouble.May 10 02:41
twitterthe day Steve Ballmer is my boss, I'll know free software has some of the same problems non free does.May 10 02:41
oiaohmBecause everyone is focused on the upper sides getting stuff to work for end users.May 10 02:42
twitterlow level bit rot.  I'm sure that's just killing Google.  LOL.May 10 02:42
oiaohmGoogle use there own stack.May 10 02:42
oiaohmThey don't trust glibc for very good reasons.May 10 02:42
twitterwhat you are telling me is a variation on an old theme, ohm.  "Free software will never be able to do X"May 10 02:43
oiaohmI am not.May 10 02:43
twitterwhere X is a working kernel, documentation, GUI, etcMay 10 02:43
oiaohmThere is no point putting head in sand.May 10 02:43
oiaohmIf you are truthful about the problems you can change focus and fix them.May 10 02:44
twitterYou are making up problems.May 10 02:44
oiaohmIts like X11 everyone kept on building toolkits on top.May 10 02:44
twitterxorg is excellentMay 10 02:44
twittermy kernel is excellentMay 10 02:45
oiaohmOnly recently in the last 4 years someone went in to fix up the low level problems.May 10 02:45
oiaohmLike multithread not working.May 10 02:45
oiaohmEven that X11 design said it should.May 10 02:45
oiaohmCode that had been sitting in X11 for 20+ years.May 10 02:45
oiaohmwas the problem.May 10 02:45
oiaohmWhen machines did not have multithreading support so it was doing software emuleation of it.May 10 02:46
oiaohmglibc and gcc both have core areas that have been neglected.May 10 02:47
oiaohmNot even the Linux kernel is perfect.May 10 02:48
twitterperfect is your word, excellent is mine.May 10 02:53
twittergnu tools are excellentMay 10 02:53
twitterthat is, they are better than most.May 10 02:53
twitterM$ tools are almost always worst of class in both quality and features.May 10 02:54
twitterthere's really no point in comparing the twoMay 10 02:55
oiaohmThere is no point negelecting the flaws here.May 10 03:05
oiaohmeither.May 10 03:06
oiaohmSorry to say in quality of code production MSVC beats Gcc twitterMay 10 03:08
oiaohmgnu tools are not perfect.   That Linux can out run Windows under particular work loads are signs of defects in Windows design not its complier twitterMay 10 03:09
oiaohmThere is still a long way to go before Open Source world can sit back and be happy twitterMay 10 03:10
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twitterI'll bet you are sorry to say things like that.  Please keep VS to yourself and wash your mouth out with soap before you kiss your mom.May 10 03:51
oiaohmNote MSVC is not MSVSMay 10 03:54
oiaohmIts part of the MS platform development kit that can be used without MSVS twitterMay 10 03:55
twitteroh yeah, command line dos.  I suppose you could get bash to help out, but I'd rather have a root canal than work with windoze paths.May 10 03:56
twitterwhy don't you just get the nice OpenWatcom compiler instead?May 10 03:57
twitteras I recall, it's output was always better than M$'s.May 10 03:57
twitterWatcom also had a nice IDE, so you can avoid VS.May 10 03:58
twitterwithout having to work painfully.May 10 03:58
oiaohmOpenWatcom beats gcc as well.  Just cannot build Linux binaries well yet.May 10 03:59
oiaohmllvm some of those developers are looking at porting the Linux kernel to llvm to get away from gcc issues.May 10 04:01
oiaohmBasically in time Linux low level will get sorted out.  Most people will be supprised by how much performance is being lost in the problems.May 10 04:01
twitterNYT guy cries over "US Press suicide watch" http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/opinion/10rich.html?ref=opinionMay 10 04:15
twitterhe better get his imagination going if he wants to keep earning money.May 10 04:16
twitter" someone — and certainly not the government, with all its conflicted interests — must pay for this content and make every effort to police its fairness and accuracy."  LOL.  Someone has got to support me in the manner to which I've become accustom.May 10 04:17
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twitter"Just because information wants to be free on the Internet doesn’t mean it can always be free. Web advertising will never be profitable enough to support ambitious news gathering."  Still does not get it, does he?May 10 04:19
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oiaohmWe are going threw change of times.May 10 04:20
twitter"  Not long ago, we laughed at the idea of pay TV."  I'm still laughing.May 10 04:20
oiaohmMedia is still trying to catch up.May 10 04:20
twitterNo, the NYT is still trying to live in the past.May 10 04:21
oiaohmAlmost every people with a cammra phone is starting to turn into a possiable rooming reporter.May 10 04:21
twitteryou betMay 10 04:21
oiaohmProblem is sorting out the good from the bad.May 10 04:21
twitterWhat's really funny is how he starts off his opinion with the story of how he and his peers were so easily manipulated by the Bush people.May 10 04:22
oiaohmThe role of future media companies needs to be auditors.May 10 04:22
oiaohmPeople will pay for confirmantion if information is true or not.May 10 04:23
twitterthey have already failed that role and need to get out of the way.May 10 04:23
twitterconfirmation is not something you can buyMay 10 04:23
twitterthose who sell it will sell you out too.May 10 04:23
oiaohmRiddlies Believe it or Not is kinda an old example of the path I am talking about.May 10 04:24
oiaohmThey really did not have reporters as such but researchers to track down if something was true or not.May 10 04:25
oiaohmProbem is its a completely different operation.May 10 04:25
oiaohmIts a operation where spin undermines it.May 10 04:26
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twitterOne of my least favorite publishers is caught printing fake journals for a drug company.    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/09/bad-science-medical-journals-companiesMay 10 05:11
twitterTrolled by ElsevierMay 10 05:12
twitterChrist, they are like gangsters.May 10 05:13
twitter" The first fun thing to emerge in the Australian case is email documentation showing staff at Merck made a "hit list" of doctors who were critical of the company, or of the drug. This list contained words such as "neutralise", "neutralised" and "discredit" next to the names of various doctors."We may need to seek them out and destroy them where they live," said one email, from a Merck employee. Staff are also alleged to have used oMay 10 05:14
twitterdisgusting.May 10 05:14
twitterI'm waiting to see stuff like this come out of M$.May 10 05:14
twitterWe know they do the fake research and relentlessly smear critics but I have yet to see the specific internal communications on this level.May 10 05:15
twitterJournals need to be liberated from these dishonest parasites.  The knowledge is restricted for control of people not quality.May 10 05:17
twitterIck, you can get the Matrix funeral http://www.popsci.com/category/tags/alkaline-hydrolysisMay 10 05:23
twitterhttp://chemistry.about.com/b/2008/05/10/alkaline-hydrolysis-dissolving-bodies-with-lye.htmMay 10 05:24
twittersmells like urine, flush twice.May 10 05:24
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yuhongBTW, what do you think of my recent comments?May 10 05:50
twitteryou have no recent commentsMay 10 05:52
yuhongNot true.May 10 06:01
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neonfloorlol\May 10 06:01
DaemonFCI'm repacking an XP CD with all the fluff cut out, all the updates, and drivers for pretty much everythingMay 10 06:11
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bgrt4DaemonFC does it accept updates after that?May 10 06:28
DaemonFCyeahMay 10 06:28
DaemonFCnot service packs thoughMay 10 06:28
DaemonFCbut SP3 was the last service packMay 10 06:28
DaemonFCso that's not a problemMay 10 06:28
bgrt4may be after series of failures of vista xMay 10 06:30
bgrt4there will be dx15 and sp6 for xpMay 10 06:30
oiaohmbgrt4: XP is not without it flaws.May 10 06:34
oiaohmProblem MS has is that XP will be showing it age more and more.May 10 06:37
DaemonFCXP X64 was released in 2005May 10 07:23
DaemonFCit's quite a bit newer than XPMay 10 07:23
oiaohmAlso driver incompadible.May 10 07:24
DaemonFCnopeMay 10 07:24
DaemonFCit can use Vista drivers in a pinchMay 10 07:24
oiaohmI was meaning with XP.May 10 07:24
DaemonFCno, it's compatible with pretty much anything that runs on XPMay 10 07:25
oiaohmTell that to my sound card.May 10 07:25
oiaohmIt works with XP and windows 2000 hates XP-64 Vista and 2003 serverMay 10 07:26
DaemonFCuse a Vista sound cardMay 10 07:26
DaemonFC*driverMay 10 07:26
oiaohmYet works with 2008 server.May 10 07:26
oiaohmReallly don't know why.May 10 07:26
DaemonFC2008 server is VistaMay 10 07:26
oiaohmThat is why I really don't know why.May 10 07:27
oiaohmThere is something minorally different.May 10 07:27
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DaemonFCoiaohm: What should really make people wonder is why EVERY "Game for Windows" wants double the RAM if you're on VistaMay 10 08:17
DaemonFCyou notice that?May 10 08:17
DaemonFClike "XP 1 gig, Vista: 2 gigs"May 10 08:17
DaemonFCso far I think I've seen one game that actually required Vista, and it was Halo 2May 10 08:18
DaemonFCand it didn't really require it, it jsut did some checks to make sure it was running on VistaMay 10 08:19
DaemonFCthere was a crack to make it work on XP within the first weekMay 10 08:19
DaemonFCmost game companies either won't use DirectX 10.x because most people still have XPMay 10 08:20
DaemonFCor because they tried and it made their game too slow or unstableMay 10 08:20
schestowitzdx10:nobody talks about it anymoreMay 10 08:22
schestowitzFew people use Vista after years out thereMay 10 08:22
schestowitzand developers may therefore not target it, eitherMay 10 08:22
DaemonFChttp://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2664/winme.jpgMay 10 08:40
DaemonFCschestowitz: I wonder if Windows Me can do Seamless ModeMay 10 08:45
DaemonFC:)May 10 08:45
DaemonFChttp://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3108/winme2.jpgMay 10 08:46
schestowitzeeewMay 10 08:53
DaemonFC1534 out of 9045 requests have been blocked, which equals a block rate of 16.96%.May 10 08:54
DaemonFChehMay 10 08:54
DaemonFCwhat Privoxy reportsMay 10 08:54
DaemonFCthat must have been 1,534 ads since I installed it two days agoMay 10 08:54
DaemonFCschestowitz: Privoxy even bags the ads in Windows Live MessengerMay 10 08:56
DaemonFC:)May 10 08:56
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schestowitzODF Alliance to Denounce Microsoft This Week? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/10/odf-alliance-vs-ms-abuse/May 10 09:18
DaemonFCnahMay 10 09:28
DaemonFCthey'd never bite the hand that feeds themMay 10 09:28
DaemonFC:)May 10 09:28
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/10/microsoft-straw-man-vs-google/ Microsoft Uses Straw Man to Defend Its Attack on Browser CompetitionMay 10 09:47
schestowitzDaemonFC: feeds them?May 10 09:48
schestowitzHow so?May 10 09:48
DaemonFCyou ever notice that Microsoft usually only has one serious competitor in ever category?May 10 09:50
DaemonFCI kind of wonder if they don't fund some of that behind the scenes to point to when the governments come to bitchMay 10 09:51
DaemonFCI mean you saw them jump to save Apple when Apple's incompetence nearly bankrupted them back in 1997May 10 09:52
DaemonFCany normal business would be thrilled to see their only competition folding upMay 10 09:52
oiaohmMS did at one point own 20 percent of apple.May 10 09:52
oiaohmWonder if they still doMay 10 09:53
DaemonFCnow they're pumping money into NovellMay 10 09:53
DaemonFCI kind of have to wonder if both of those moves were to make it look like they had some credible competitionMay 10 09:53
DaemonFCthey sold most of their Apple stock offMay 10 09:54
DaemonFCand it was all non-voting stockMay 10 09:54
DaemonFCbasically it was a loanMay 10 09:54
DaemonFCthe stock was collateralMay 10 09:54
DaemonFCand the interest was bundling MSIE on every MacMay 10 09:54
DaemonFCin place of NetscapeMay 10 09:54
oiaohmIts like the Linux world.  Any cat without good competition basically bit rots.May 10 09:54
DaemonFCwell, I'm sure OS X is doing the same kind of "content protection" Vista isMay 10 09:55
DaemonFCor else a Mac couldn't play high definition discsMay 10 09:55
DaemonFCit's not like Microsoft put it into Vista for no reasonMay 10 09:55
DaemonFCnobody talks about DRM on a Mac even though there's plenty of itMay 10 09:56
DaemonFCabout the only DRM that a Mac doesn't have is Product Activation, and it really has that tooMay 10 09:57
DaemonFCtheir product activation is more like SLP on WindowsMay 10 09:57
DaemonFCwithout the code embedded into a Mac's startup firmware, OS X can't bootMay 10 09:57
DaemonFCotherwise there's nothing different about a Mac and any PCMay 10 09:58
DaemonFCI put together a Hackintosh just cause I was boredMay 10 09:58
DaemonFCI was really totally not thrilledMay 10 09:59
oiaohmIf apple died that would leave MS head to head with Linux.May 10 09:59
DaemonFCwell, Apple is more evil than MicrosoftMay 10 09:59
oiaohmNot exactly a location MS wanted.May 10 09:59
DaemonFClike take upgrades for exampleMay 10 09:59
oiaohmIf you have not worked out fake creates the 2 horse race.May 10 10:00
DaemonFCif I'm on Windows, I could conceivably not upgrade for 6-8 years and even then most software would still work for a couple years even if MS dodn't support itMay 10 10:00
DaemonFCbut on a Mac, if you don't upgrade for $129 every yearMay 10 10:00
oiaohmBeing careful only to talk about 1 competitor in most markets and disreguarding the rest.May 10 10:00
DaemonFCthen you're fuckedMay 10 10:00
DaemonFCso lets say I bought a full retail copy of XP Pro for $199 in 2001May 10 10:01
DaemonFCconceivably I could still be using that comfortably for 10 yearsMay 10 10:02
DaemonFCso Windows cost me about $20 a yearMay 10 10:02
DaemonFCbut if I bought a Mac in 2001 and wanted to keep it for 10 years and needed to stay compatible, then the 9 $129 upgrades would cost me $1161May 10 10:03
DaemonFCnot even counting the portion of the price of the computer was for the copy of OS X that came with itMay 10 10:03
DaemonFCso upgrades alone you're talking about Mac OS X being over 5 times the price to maintainMay 10 10:04
DaemonFCand that's not even saying whether you still need to run Windows software somehowMay 10 10:04
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_Hicham_Hi oiaohmMay 10 10:05
oiaohmHi _Hicham_ timing everying just going to clean up kitchen.May 10 10:05
DaemonFCthere was an article that I was reading a while back where some guy said "I must be the only Mac user that's always booted into XPMay 10 10:05
DaemonFC:)May 10 10:06
_Hicham_oiaohm : backup the dishes before beginning the cleaning process :-DMay 10 10:06
DaemonFCI think Windows survives mainly because it does it's job well enough and they don't hit you up for money constantlyMay 10 10:08
DaemonFCI think a youtube video making fun of MS said it bestMay 10 10:08
DaemonFCWelcome to the So-SoMay 10 10:08
bgrt4wtfMay 10 10:10
schestowitzMicrosoft Uses Lobbyists to Attack Holland’s Migration to Free Software http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/10/lobbyists-bribes-vs-free-sw/May 10 10:11
bgrt4DaemonFC, windows survives for quite different reasonsMay 10 10:11
DaemonFCthis is ridiculousMay 10 10:15
DaemonFCI have to get a 1.3 GB downloadMay 10 10:15
DaemonFCcause I need a 35k driverMay 10 10:16
DaemonFCthat Microsoft won't let anyone redistributeMay 10 10:16
bgrt4windows survives mostly due to it's enforced and unlawful (from m$ side) spreading, then goes people's passiveness in everything m$ does to them, then people's fear of anything where they have choice, then ...May 10 10:18
bgrt4you can only damnate peoples' natural stupidityMay 10 10:20
bgrt4so you can either somehow make people clever enough or fight with demon like m$ or both, the latter is executed with boycottnovell as well as some others :)May 10 10:28
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schestowitzISP Under Unfortunate ‘DDOS Attack’ by Microsoft Corporation; Liability of Software Debated in Europe http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/10/microsoft-corporation-ddos/May 10 10:40
bgrt4legal ddos XDMay 10 10:44
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mib_cw4brvhello all: just stopped by to tell a story happened few days ago:May 10 10:46
mib_cw4brvsomeone working on a word document with pictures, tables, etc. managed to get it frozen and file corrupted.May 10 10:47
mib_cw4brvI took the file, opened it in OpenOffice, saved it back as .doc and sent it back: worked like a charmMay 10 10:47
mib_cw4brvlooks like Office cannot be interoperable with itself :D (office2003 if you wonder)May 10 10:48
oiaohmI guess 2 different printers connected to office 2003 mib_cw4brvMay 10 10:54
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oiaohmI have had office 2003 fail to open documents just because I changed the default printer.May 10 10:55
_Hicham_haha, really nice one oiaohmMay 10 10:55
_Hicham_fucking office systemMay 10 10:55
oiaohmLast service pack that don't happen any more.May 10 10:55
_Hicham_MS Office is a pain in the assMay 10 10:56
_Hicham_always shiveringMay 10 10:56
oiaohmRemember I run networks.May 10 10:56
oiaohmSo I changed the default printer on 20 machines at once.May 10 10:57
oiaohmPeople wonder why at times I hate MS products.May 10 10:57
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_Hicham_why not migrate to Open Source solutions?May 10 11:01
_Hicham_oiaohm : is ReiserFS superior to ext3?May 10 11:07
oiaohmReiserFS is having driver issues.May 10 11:17
_Hicham_which issues?May 10 11:18
DaemonFCkiller issuesMay 10 11:18
DaemonFC:)May 10 11:18
oiaohmkiller would be a nice data vaporising errors.May 10 11:21
schestowitzVista 7 is Free (as in Free Tobacco) for One Year http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/10/gratis-vista-7-is-like-free-tobacco/May 10 11:21
DaemonFCschestowitzMay 10 11:21
DaemonFCnoMay 10 11:21
DaemonFConly til MarchMay 10 11:21
DaemonFCthen it starts shutting down every 2 hoursMay 10 11:21
schestowitzmib_cw4brv: yes, MS Office is incomptible with selfMay 10 11:21
DaemonFCtil JuneMay 10 11:21
DaemonFCthen it won't boot at allMay 10 11:22
schestowitzEven the Mac version of MSO doesn't work with the same one on Windows.May 10 11:22
mib_cw4brvheheeMay 10 11:22
schestowitzDaemonFC: is this a correction posted widely?May 10 11:22
DaemonFCnoMay 10 11:22
schestowitzI thought it was 13 monthsMay 10 11:22
DaemonFCbut if you read the documentation it says thatMay 10 11:22
DaemonFCnopeMay 10 11:22
schestowitzOKMay 10 11:22
DaemonFCMarchMay 10 11:22
DaemonFCthen it shuts down every two hoursMay 10 11:23
oiaohmThere is a older format that .doc I know that manages to work better.  Blenders .blend files.May 10 11:23
schestowitzLots of sites say...May 10 11:23
schestowitzOh.May 10 11:23
schestowitzMarch 2010?May 10 11:23
DaemonFCyesMay 10 11:23
schestowitzOKMay 10 11:23
oiaohm.blend files are made up of memory dumps from the application creating it.May 10 11:23
schestowitzSo it's not far offMay 10 11:23
oiaohmLoading application has to translate.May 10 11:23
oiaohmYet it works.May 10 11:24
oiaohmAnyone able to think up a more evil format than .blend files that works.May 10 11:26
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_Hicham_oiaohm : u didn't tell me about ReiserFS issuesMay 10 11:41
oiaohmReiserFS is having issues due to Linux kernel locking being changed.May 10 11:48
oiaohmYes I did _Hicham_May 10 11:48
_Hicham_u just said driver issuesMay 10 11:49
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oiaohmReiserFS driver in the Linux kernel.May 10 11:49
oiaohmDepended on particular locking features of the Linux kernel that are no longer there.May 10 11:49
oiaohmYep break nasty.May 10 11:49
schestowitzNot everyone who bashes GNU/Linux (or promotes Mono) is necessarily a peer < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/10/microsoft-mvp-hardcore-linux/ >May 10 11:50
_Hicham_oiaohm : so the most stable fs on linux is still ext3?May 10 11:57
MinceRyes it is.May 10 11:57
DaemonFCWindows 7 final will make you fromat the disk anywayMay 10 11:59
DaemonFCso you'll have a lot of backups to doMay 10 11:59
_Hicham_who is interested in Windows 7?May 10 12:00
DaemonFCwhat I'll think is funny is if it gets delayedMay 10 12:00
DaemonFCand you have millions of people getting kicked off their PC every 2 hoursMay 10 12:00
DaemonFCthough I'm sure MS could send a hotfix that stops it from doing thatMay 10 12:02
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taconehackers themselves persecuted ? http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/gerv/archives/2009/05/thomson_reuters_subpoenas_zotero_hacker.htmlMay 10 12:03
DaemonFCWin7 is as done as it's going to getMay 10 12:03
DaemonFCthe real reason for the RC is PRMay 10 12:04
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_Hicham_oiaohm : is ext4 in 2.6.30 usable?May 10 12:09
schestowitzA Lesson for Developers: Why Support GNU/Linux? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/10/why-support-gnu-linux/ May 10 12:12
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toroshiMay 10 12:21
_Hicham_always windows software versions exceed linux downloadsMay 10 12:27
_Hicham_this has to be changedMay 10 12:28
oiaohmIts not released yet so far looking good _Hicham_May 10 12:28
_Hicham_i am talking in generalMay 10 12:28
torosGreat title: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/10/gratis-vista-7-is-like-free-tobacco/ :)May 10 12:28
_Hicham_about cross-platform softwareMay 10 12:29
_Hicham_windows versions are downloaded the mostMay 10 12:29
oiaohmIts also harder to count Linux downloads.May 10 12:30
oiaohmSince items like firefox come out the distributions repo's.May 10 12:30
torosoiaohm: yepp. I use only official (and some PPA) repos, but I never download any software for UbuntuMay 10 12:31
torosI let the package manager download it :)May 10 12:32
oiaohmLinux distribution model makes it a lot harder to count.May 10 12:33
_Hicham_upstream/downstream againMay 10 12:34
oiaohmParticular people like me using ISP provided distribution repos.  So to the distribution I download nothing.May 10 12:34
_Hicham_upstream projects should set up their own reposMay 10 12:35
_Hicham_in collaboration with the distrosMay 10 12:35
oiaohmReally distros need to collaborate more.May 10 12:37
oiaohmAnd make project live simpler.May 10 12:37
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oiaohmhttp://durian.blender.org/  Bender moving onto next movie project.May 10 12:38
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oiaohmThe next one has the restriction of all open source software as a goal.May 10 12:42
schestowitzEPO in State of Turmoil, Patents Kill < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/10/epo-in-state-of-turmoil/ >May 10 12:46
schestowitzoiaohm: Blender, not BenderMay 10 12:46
schestowitzI thought Sugar (of OLPC fame) leftMay 10 12:47
schestowitztoros: thanksMay 10 12:48
schestowitzbblMay 10 12:49
_Hicham_there should be some unified package management aside each distro specific toolsMay 10 13:01
_Hicham_so that users have the options to use upstream projects binariesMay 10 13:02
_Hicham_Firefox is a good exampleMay 10 13:02
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DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandalMay 10 13:56
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DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYIfyDENTIYMay 10 15:10
DaemonFCwatch to the endMay 10 15:10
*schestowitz just finished watching Zeitgeist this morning.May 10 15:24
schestowitzI know this video from PirilloMay 10 15:26
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_Hicham_I just tested Fedora 11, and it is blazing fastMay 10 15:55
schestowitzBoot speed should be greatMay 10 16:04
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EruaranI might be tempted to try out Fedora 11May 10 16:30
_Hicham_1it is really greatMay 10 16:32
_Hicham_1I am running the livecd from hard diskMay 10 16:32
_Hicham_1I copied the livecd to the rootMay 10 16:32
_Hicham_1then created a grub entryMay 10 16:32
EruaranExt4 ?May 10 16:36
EruaranKDE 4.2.3 ?May 10 16:37
EruaranKPackageKit ?May 10 16:37
_Hicham_1I didn't use thatMay 10 16:37
_Hicham_1I didn't install itMay 10 16:37
Eruarancan I haz all of the above ?May 10 16:37
_Hicham_1yes, u can have them allMay 10 16:38
EruaransoldMay 10 16:38
Eruaranoh wait...May 10 16:38
_Hicham_1nonetheless, u may pay attention to one thingMay 10 16:38
EruaranPlymouth still only runs on Intel doesn't it ?May 10 16:38
_Hicham_1plymouth runs on every card since the beginningMay 10 16:39
_Hicham_1it is kms that is still restricted to radeon 300 series, and intel seriesMay 10 16:39
_Hicham_1it is intended to run on nvidia also with Nouveau driverMay 10 16:40
EruaranI couldn't get it to boot on an AMD/Nvidia systemMay 10 16:40
_Hicham_1did u add to the kernel line : nomodeset vga=0x318?May 10 16:40
EruarannoMay 10 16:40
_Hicham_1u mustMay 10 16:40
_Hicham_1if ur video card doesn't support KMSMay 10 16:41
Eruaranoh i cMay 10 16:41
EruaranIt was a pretty crappy onboard chipsetMay 10 16:41
_Hicham_1and it runs greatMay 10 16:41
_Hicham_1what brand?May 10 16:42
EruarannvidiaMay 10 16:42
Eruaran7025May 10 16:42
EruaranAsus use it on their cheap boardsMay 10 16:42
DaemonFCuggghMay 10 16:43
DaemonFCdisk operations in Vista make me want to claw my eyes outMay 10 16:43
EruaranVista makes technicians cryMay 10 16:43
EruaranI was working on a vista system one dayMay 10 16:44
EruaranAnd my boss came and saidMay 10 16:44
DaemonFCI've been constructing a suped up XP X64 discMay 10 16:44
DaemonFC:PMay 10 16:44
Eruaran"you look like Vista is making you want to kill yourself"May 10 16:44
DaemonFCyeah, someone asked me if you could use XP drivers on VistaMay 10 16:44
DaemonFCI told him he'd be pushing his luck trying to get Vista drivers to work on VistaMay 10 16:45
DaemonFC:)May 10 16:45
EruaranhahaMay 10 16:45
DaemonFCI gutted a copy of XP X64 with nlite and integrated all the service packs, hot fixes, and all my driversMay 10 16:45
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DaemonFCeven had room left over for all my usual goodiesMay 10 16:45
DaemonFCcan anyone tell me what actually uses VB Scripting Engine besides viruses?May 10 16:46
EruaranI installed the latest CCleaner on an XP system the other dayMay 10 16:46
DaemonFCI always remove that and never have seen any downsideMay 10 16:46
EruaranThey've added System Restore to the tools nowMay 10 16:46
DaemonFCyeah, I removed Defrag and Disk CleanupMay 10 16:47
EruaranAnd I couldn't help commenting to someoneMay 10 16:47
DaemonFCto put in JK Defrag and CCleanerMay 10 16:47
EruaranIf Microsoft outsourced Windows development to Piriform (the folks who make CCleaner and Recuva), then Windows would probably be 100% better.May 10 16:47
DaemonFCMicrosoft should go back to making Windows componentized by defaultMay 10 16:48
DaemonFCremember when Windows 9x/NT actually used to ask if you wanted all the extra crap?May 10 16:48
EruaranyesMay 10 16:48
EruaranAnd..May 10 16:49
EruaranPiriform would probably call it, "Extra Crap"May 10 16:49
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DaemonFCwell it is crapMay 10 16:52
DaemonFCup until XP, Outlook Express was even optionalMay 10 16:52
DaemonFChmmmMay 10 16:57
DaemonFCXP was out when I was 17May 10 16:57
DaemonFCit will be supported til I'm 30May 10 16:57
DaemonFCdamnMay 10 16:57
EruaranhahaMay 10 16:57
EruaranclassicMay 10 16:58
*Eruaran uses KubuntuMay 10 16:58
DaemonFCjust bury me out back with the Search DogMay 10 16:58
DaemonFC:)May 10 16:58
EruaranThats something I cant understandMay 10 17:00
EruaranPeople using the same OS in 2009 they were using in 2001May 10 17:00
EruaranIts unheard of reallyMay 10 17:00
DaemonFCnot really the same OSMay 10 17:00
EruaranIts still Windows XPMay 10 17:00
DaemonFCif you look at what SP1/2/3 added in detailMay 10 17:00
DaemonFCno, it's had some major revisionsMay 10 17:01
DaemonFCprobably because they never figured on it being around this longMay 10 17:01
EruaranIt still has bugs that it had in 2003May 10 17:01
DaemonFCthey've fixed over 3,200 bugsMay 10 17:02
DaemonFCif you count everything that the service packs have plus the 100 or so hotfixes past the last oneMay 10 17:02
EruaranIn over 8 years... thats not manyMay 10 17:02
DaemonFCbut yeah, it still has some really bizarre behaviorsMay 10 17:02
DaemonFCbut nothing like XP RTMMay 10 17:02
DaemonFCXP was released broken and fixed upMay 10 17:03
DaemonFCVista is just too messed up to even begin fixingMay 10 17:03
DaemonFCI mean they've fixed some superficial things but no major problems have been addressedMay 10 17:03
EruarancantMay 10 17:04
Eruaranwithout basically starting from scratchMay 10 17:04
Eruaranthe problems are architecturalMay 10 17:04
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DaemonFCif you go through the types of bugs that SP2 fixes, you'll find that most of them that are not security patches are trivial issues that only happen in some situationsMay 10 17:04
Eruaranwb _Hicham_1May 10 17:04
DaemonFCthe average user won't encounter more than a few of themMay 10 17:04
DaemonFCeven though tye fixed 1,000+ thingsMay 10 17:05
EruaranLike letting XP try to find drivers...May 10 17:05
_Hicham_1Hi Eruaran!May 10 17:05
DaemonFCthere's a fix for that oddly enoughMay 10 17:05
DaemonFCthere's a guy that maintains "Driver Packs"May 10 17:05
DaemonFCif you install them all then there's not too many things that XP won't recognizeMay 10 17:06
EruaranAnd of course, most of the time it can't... but if the user clicks 'back' or 'cancel' the user is still ignored until it has finished doing whatever it is doing... thats a bug, and it has never been fixedMay 10 17:06
Eruaransup _Hicham_1May 10 17:06
DaemonFCyeah, if you don't have really old hardware or integrate driver packsMay 10 17:07
DaemonFCthen XP is a nightmare to set upMay 10 17:07
Eruaranthats the pointMay 10 17:07
Eruaranfor the end userMay 10 17:07
Eruaranthat 'feature' has always been brokenMay 10 17:07
EruaranYour average FOSS project would call it broken, and fix itMay 10 17:08
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DaemonFCI guess I got sick of Vista precisely at the point where my laptop with 1 gig of RAM and a 1.8 Ghz Sempron was sancing circles around my Core 2 Duo desktop with 4 gigs RAMMay 10 17:09
DaemonFCwith XP, programs load instantly and menus snap openMay 10 17:09
DaemonFCVista just feels bloated and hungoverMay 10 17:09
EruaranI quit Windows in 2005May 10 17:10
DaemonFCI'm sure Vista is a breeze on a Core 2 Quad and 8 gigs of RAM or somethingMay 10 17:10
DaemonFCbut damnMay 10 17:10
EruaranI only use Windows at workMay 10 17:10
EruaranWhere we still use Linux a lotMay 10 17:10
EruaranI had a system with 256mb of ram that was a slug with XP on it... everyone told me "you really need 512 for XP"... back then that sounded like a lot of memory just to run the desktop and do basic stuffMay 10 17:12
EruaranSo I said get stuffed and installed a Linux distroMay 10 17:12
Eruaransuddenly my slug of a PC wasn't a slug any moreMay 10 17:12
EruaranSo I stayed with only 256mb for ages just to prove a pointMay 10 17:13
EruaranWhenever someone said I really need 512 I'd say, "you mean for Windows"May 10 17:13
EruaranPlasma is currently using a little under 47mb of ramMay 10 17:17
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bgrt4256mb is kinda enough for xp sp1 or may be 2May 10 17:35
bgrt4i used it at my jobMay 10 17:36
schestowitzMy machine with KDE has 256MBMay 10 17:37
schestowitzIt's workable.May 10 17:37
bgrt4niceMay 10 17:48
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amarsh04I have 384 MiB RAM with KDE 3.5.10May 10 18:30
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schestowitzOMGMay 10 18:48
schestowitzWatch MS aleinating Vista. In a similar vein, methods that are used in an NRR objective function can improve a registration, but it must not be assumed that they are absolute measures of image similarity or indicative of registration quality. For example, mutual information-based NRR may lead to a good registration, but more evidence would be needed to show that mutual information can also be used to compare the quality of several May 10 18:48
schestowitzdifferent registrations. The sameMay 10 18:48
schestowitzOops.May 10 18:48
schestowitzWrong pasteMay 10 18:49
schestowitzIn a similar vein, methods that are used in an NRR objective function can improve a registration, but it must not be assumed that they are absolute measures of image similarity or indicative of registration quality. For example, mutual information-based NRR may lead to a good registration, but more evidence would be needed to show that mutual information can also be used to compare the quality of several different registrations. ThMay 10 18:49
schestowitze sameMay 10 18:49
schestowitzhttp://www.microsoft.com/indonesia/events/developerconference.aspxMay 10 18:49
schestowitzWatch the logosMay 10 18:49
schestowitzNo VistaMay 10 18:49
schestowitzJust "Windows 7" (vapourware)May 10 18:49
schestowitzMicrosoft Developer Conference – featuring Steve Ballmer, CEO Microsoft http://dikdini.wordpress.com/2009/04/03/microsoft-developer-conference-featuring-steve-ballmer-ceo-microsoft/May 10 18:49
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mib_84donsHey Roy, how ya doing? It's Mikey.May 10 19:06
schestowitzHeyMay 10 19:06
schestowitzSteve just got back from the 20kMay 10 19:06
mib_84donsI told you i'd be backMay 10 19:07
mib_84donsWhat did he have to say?May 10 19:07
schestowitzYou beat him at itMay 10 19:07
schestowitzHe's a chickenhawkMay 10 19:07
mib_84donsHe certainly isMay 10 19:07
mib_84donsWhat's a chickenhawkMay 10 19:07
schestowitzI wish I could find the video where  picked itMay 10 19:08
schestowitzIt's when hawks (political) are themselves chickensMay 10 19:08
schestowitzSo in this case, he's a heroic runner but just not willing to have a real battle (competition) himselfMay 10 19:09
mib_84donsi just saw the meaning at Wikipedia, what does he mean i beat him at it?May 10 19:09
schestowitzAnyway, what do you think of the bailobama?May 10 19:09
mib_84donsWell well well, that is quite a timely question especially for me Mr SchestowitzMay 10 19:10
mib_84donsI last week dipped my toes into share trading watersMay 10 19:10
mib_84donswhat does that tell you my friend?May 10 19:10
schestowitzHere's the professor I told you about BTW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWQ-1X44e7o&feature=PlayList&p=8A140F057F5C7762&index=22May 10 19:11
mib_84donsyou do the mathMay 10 19:11
schestowitzTrading?May 10 19:11
mib_84donsits playing now in the backgroundMay 10 19:11
schestowitzAgaiin?May 10 19:11
_Hicham_schestowitz is a big mathematicianMay 10 19:12
mib_84donsi bought shares in six companies currently trading at 15p per share but with 500p two year highs, so far in profit, but always monitoringMay 10 19:12
schestowitzPenny trading?May 10 19:13
mib_84donsyep thats itMay 10 19:13
schestowitzWhy not something concrete?May 10 19:13
mib_84donsexcept now there's lots of penny trades aboutMay 10 19:13
mib_84donsi am into banks too, they are less riskyMay 10 19:13
mib_84donsbut a few cheeky long shots thrown inMay 10 19:13
mib_84dons:)May 10 19:13
mib_84donsi only invest what i can afford to lose and do lots of research, i never play the lottery or bet on horses, thst IS throwing money awayMay 10 19:14
mib_84donswas Stevey HO chatting to you today?May 10 19:15
schestowitzNope, not really.May 10 19:16
schestowitzHe still wore that race tagMay 10 19:16
schestowitzJust to show off to peopleMay 10 19:16
mib_84donsHe only seems to talk about running these days, and he does show off, think we are in the midst of another mini recovery, shares wise, but i doubt it will  lastMay 10 19:17
schestowitzWhat is this recovery based on? Printing money?May 10 19:18
schestowitzI'd be surprised if there was no temporary recoveryMay 10 19:18
mib_84donsthe after effects therein yes:)May 10 19:18
schestowitzIn fact, layoffs were down in terms of pace for the first time in a long timeMay 10 19:18
schestowitzAbout 520,000 laid off in the US last month ('official' numbers). 'Only' half a millionMay 10 19:18
schestowitzmib_84dons: how much do you know about 1929?May 10 19:19
schestowitzFrom what I've learned they made the exact same mistakesMay 10 19:19
schestowitzInto the 30s tooMay 10 19:19
mib_84donsyes i heard but i think this is temporary respite, this bailout credit card is about to be maxed out soon i reckonMay 10 19:19
schestowitzThey made things even worseMay 10 19:19
mib_84donsthe combined wealth of the US/UK/EU has been plundered to some degree, i wonder if this is the calm before the storm  required to give the rats time enough to desert the sinking ship and convert there plundered paper money into something more concrete as you sayMay 10 19:20
schestowitzI did some learning about debt in countriesMay 10 19:21
schestowitzThe figures are not publicly availableMay 10 19:21
schestowitzOr at least not broadcastMay 10 19:21
mib_84donsusuryMay 10 19:21
schestowitzBut I found France, Canada, Germany, and Japan debtMay 10 19:21
schestowitzNot as bad per capita as the US and UKMay 10 19:22
schestowitzBut still quite grimMay 10 19:22
mib_84donsI suppose debt is a very sophisticated and abstract from of modern day slaveryMay 10 19:22
schestowitzWell, that's what economies are built onMay 10 19:22
schestowitzFor each dollar/piund you own you also have some interest which is debtMay 10 19:22
schestowitzOr something along those linesMay 10 19:22
schestowitzBecause the treasury produces it by issuing debtMay 10 19:23
schestowitzi.e. borrowing from China or not paying for imported mechandise yetMay 10 19:23
schestowitzAnd the Federal Reserve is just as 'Fedral' as Fedral Express.May 10 19:23
mib_84donsMoney its creation and distribution is fascinatingMay 10 19:24
schestowitzTurns out it was recreated after it had been sort of sidelined, despite oppositionMay 10 19:24
mib_84donsI heard all about the FEDMay 10 19:24
schestowitzmib_84dons: well, it should also be made known to allMay 10 19:24
schestowitzIt's not somehting people should research forMay 10 19:24
mib_84donsThere's lots of negative stuff about it on the webnMay 10 19:24
schestowitzSame with the pharma cartelMay 10 19:24
schestowitzNAFTA..May 10 19:24
schestowitzNo coverage in the news about itMay 10 19:24
schestowitzACTAMay 10 19:24
schestowitzI suppose you know nothing about ACTAMay 10 19:24
schestowitzIt leaked recentlyMay 10 19:25
mib_84donsyes big pharma, Tamiflu etc, create the problem then market the solutionMay 10 19:25
schestowitzA bundle or new predatory laws that eliminate borders for censorship (copyrights) and arrestsMay 10 19:25
schestowitzmib_84dons: sometimes religions can be used in the same way, e.g. ScientologyMay 10 19:26
mib_84donsCheck this Royston....http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10554May 10 19:26
mib_84donsI think i might sell my shares tomorrow morning.....May 10 19:28
schestowitzI can't read all thatMay 10 19:28
schestowitzWhat will you trade it for?May 10 19:28
schestowitzSheep?May 10 19:28
schestowitzPapers with queen renditions?May 10 19:28
mib_84donslol, i will just get my cash backMay 10 19:29
schestowitzAh, OKMay 10 19:29
mib_84donswe are not out of the woods yet RoyMay 10 19:29
schestowitzYou know, old dollars used to say it's redeemable as goldMay 10 19:29
mib_84donsplenty more shoes to fallMay 10 19:29
schestowitzShoes?May 10 19:29
mib_84donsyes was it the gold standardMay 10 19:29
mib_84donsthe commercial property sector, think empty shopping mallsMay 10 19:29
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uIj0YvDBKE :-DMay 10 19:29
mib_84donsthink dawn of the dead:)May 10 19:30
schestowitzyawn of the deadMay 10 19:30
mib_84donshttp://www.surfingtheapocalypse.net/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=225554May 10 19:31
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schestowitzMicrosoft's CEO will try to buy a new colony tomorrow: http://dikdini.wordpress.com/2009/04/03/microsoft-developer-conference-featuring-steve-ballmer-ceo-microsoft/May 10 19:31
schestowitzautomobiles to filed ch11?May 10 19:32
mib_84donsHey Roy, if i can get you a ticket for this Sundays BUPA great Manchester Run would you be interested, there are 35,000 people running, it would be free to youMay 10 19:32
schestowitzIs this news?May 10 19:32
schestowitzor old vid?May 10 19:32
schestowitzmib_84dons: thanks, but I'll passMay 10 19:32
schestowitzI'd have to train for itMay 10 19:33
schestowitzAnyway, that last video was spot-onMay 10 19:34
schestowitzThe one I posted jokingly related to the "last shoe to fall" remarkMay 10 19:35
schestowitzIt's just a video of Bush's visit to his latest colonyMay 10 19:35
mib_84donsI don't know Royston.....you were a very bright fast burning Mr Fitness fuse, think of yourself in ten years timeMay 10 19:35
mib_84donsyou'll love this vid Roy...http://www.abcnews.go.com/print?id=7527708May 10 19:36
schestowitzmib_84dons: I'm not going downhill yet :-)May 10 19:36
schestowitzI'd love to do a marathonMay 10 19:36
schestowitzBut 10k would not be an achievementMay 10 19:36
schestowitzBTW, no trophies this yearMay 10 19:36
schestowitzI tried not to nag themMay 10 19:36
schestowitzBrought the subject up like 6 timesMay 10 19:36
mib_84donsyeah a marathon is a really big achievment first time round i thinkMay 10 19:36
amarsh04I used to do a 20km jog at night 2-3 times per weekMay 10 19:36
schestowitzThe crunch takes the trophy :-DMay 10 19:37
mib_84dons:)May 10 19:37
schestowitzamarsh04: that's amazingMay 10 19:37
mib_84donsI admit that is a bit remiss of them, that would never have happened on my watch ROy:)May 10 19:37
schestowitzWhat would you have done?May 10 19:38
mib_84donsthat's good goingMay 10 19:38
amarsh04not very fast mind you, would take over 2 hoursMay 10 19:38
mib_84donsthat's like a half marathon, still good at 2 hours three times a week, the trouble is it takes up so much timeMay 10 19:39
mib_84donsunlike this of course:)May 10 19:39
schestowitzHehe.May 10 19:39
schestowitzWell.. give me another yearMay 10 19:39
schestowitzNews is slowing downMay 10 19:40
schestowitzI might take a break from all thatMay 10 19:40
mib_84donsa break from what sorryMay 10 19:40
schestowitzas amarsh04 would know, Groklaw is alreasy partly 'out'May 10 19:40
schestowitz*AlreadyMay 10 19:40
schestowitzmib_84dons: iNTERNETMay 10 19:40
mib_84donsok i understandMay 10 19:40
mib_84donsit would be good to see you out and about moreMay 10 19:41
*amarsh04 finally figured out creating 32-bit kernel and alsa-driver .deb's on 64-bit DebianMay 10 19:42
amarsh04...without a 32-bit chrootMay 10 19:43
schestowitzmib_84dons: you mean where?May 10 19:43
schestowitzYou should arrange a night out with Neil and othersMay 10 19:43
mib_84donswho is NeilMay 10 19:44
schestowitzBaxterMay 10 19:45
schestowitzHis older brother is getting married soonMay 10 19:45
schestowitzI still speak to his dad sometimes. Actually, to everyone but the motherMay 10 19:46
mib_84donsIs Neil the DAD or SOnMay 10 19:46
*neonfloss (n=neon@rdsl-0393.tor.pathcom.com) has joined #boycottnovellMay 10 19:46
schestowitzThere are two Davids, Louisa, Martin and Neil. The mom is Carole.May 10 19:46
schestowitzTheir dad is a professor where I am, so..May 10 19:46
mib_84donsDoes DAve like to talk about the collapseMay 10 19:46
schestowitzHeheMay 10 19:46
schestowitzNo.May 10 19:46
schestowitzYou should see the look on his faceMay 10 19:46
mib_84donswhenMay 10 19:47
schestowitzHe's one of the escapistsMay 10 19:47
mib_84donssay?May 10 19:47
schestowitzThose who don't wanna know anything about itMay 10 19:47
schestowitzChris Brooks doesn't even want to hear about corruptionMay 10 19:47
mib_84donsah yes, in denialMay 10 19:47
schestowitzHe's fed up with those Greecnpeace activists, tooMay 10 19:47
schestowitzIt's really interestingMay 10 19:47
mib_84donsGreekMay 10 19:47
schestowitzThere are the responsive type and denialistsMay 10 19:48
schestowitzSome people run away and some are appealed to itMay 10 19:48
mib_84donsyeas they are in work too, everywhere in factMay 10 19:48
schestowitzSome people want answers, others want ill/delusionsMay 10 19:48
schestowitzThe TV gives it to them  :-DMay 10 19:48
schestowitzSpeeches about unity, hope and all that  malarkeyMay 10 19:48
mib_84donsEmmerdale, COronation StretMay 10 19:49
schestowitzSo they can pick and matchMay 10 19:49
schestowitzAnd they would say what Obama and Biden said the other day about this and datMay 10 19:49
mib_84donsand believe it tooMay 10 19:49
schestowitzYesMay 10 19:49
schestowitzIt's the presidentMay 10 19:49
schestowitzHe tells truthMay 10 19:49
schestowitzHe swore to GodMay 10 19:49
schestowitzYou should see the US response to people who opposed an oath on God's nameMay 10 19:50
schestowitzThey wanted something more secularMay 10 19:50
schestowitz*inMay 10 19:50
mib_84donsrabble rousingMay 10 19:50
mib_84donsreligous fruitcakesMay 10 19:51
mib_84donsi goota go Roy, see you soonMay 10 19:54
schestowitzOKMay 10 19:54
schestowitzYou know who else says truth?May 10 19:54
schestowitzThe Federal CommissionMay 10 19:55
schestowitzAnd ReserveMay 10 19:55
schestowitzIf Alan says it goes up (whatever it is), then borrow and buyMay 10 19:55
trmancohttp://blog.gitorious.org/2009/05/09/weve-made-a-few-changes/May 10 19:56
schestowitz"Gitorious is, and will continue to be, 100% free software, licensed under the Affero GPL."May 10 20:00
schestowitzNovell will have ugly results later  this month. Maybe it'll announce big layoffs at this stage. They were gonna do it in February, but apparently held off/backed downMay 10 20:04
Balroganothe AGPL app!May 10 20:11
schestowitzOK, this is kind of stupid: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/24929/1143/ (Happy mother's day, Linus Torvalds)May 10 20:11
schestowitzHe makes Linus his mummy now?May 10 20:11
trmancoI have to check the differences between gpl and agplMay 10 20:12
Balrogtrmanco: AGPL fixes part of the SaaS problemMay 10 20:13
schestowitzzoobab01: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1396319May 10 20:14
trmancoBalrog, hmm ok, you just saved me some time, but I will read the hole license just for curiosityMay 10 20:14
trmancothanksMay 10 20:14
schestowitztrmanco: short story: (A) means you'll need to share changes to app on your serverMay 10 20:15
schestowitzAffero is the company's nameMay 10 20:15
schestowitzWordPress should be made AGPLv3May 10 20:15
Balrogschestowitz: I'm not too sure about that...May 10 20:15
Balrogthat /could/ lead to a fork :/May 10 20:15
schestowitzAbout what?May 10 20:15
schestowitzOhMay 10 20:16
schestowitzThe WP thingMay 10 20:16
schestowitzGood luck to forkers :-)May 10 20:16
schestowitzAutomattic has the momentumMay 10 20:16
BalrogCiviCRM is already AGPLMay 10 20:16
Balrogand many people use itMay 10 20:16
schestowitzSugarCRM head just jumped shipMay 10 20:17
schestowitzGPLv3May 10 20:17
Balrogexcept that CiviCRM's stance is that AGPL only applies to that software and not the full Drupal installMay 10 20:17
schestowitzBut they mix itMay 10 20:17
schestowitzSun Open-Sources U.S. Antibribery Laws < http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090508/sun-open-sources-us-anti-bribery-laws/ >May 10 20:19
schestowitzEmployment minister Tony McNulty may have 'obtained pecuniary advantage by deception' < http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/may/08/tony-mcnulty-mps-expenses >May 10 20:23
schestowitzHere's a good new Linux device which is based on ARM: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7369824937.html?kc=rssMay 10 20:24
schestowitzDefunct papers: Reporter to NY Times Publisher: You Erased My Career < http://www.thomascrampton.com/newspapers/reporter-to-ny-times-publisher-you-erased-my-career/ >May 10 20:25
schestowitzFor sunny place only: Geeks: A solar powered bench for all your battery and wifi needs http://thenextweb.com/2009/05/08/geeks-solar-powered-bench-battery-wifi/May 10 20:25
schestowitzEU launches Eastern plan in Russia's backyard  < http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/eu-launches-eastern-plan-russia-backyard/article-182123?Ref=RSS >May 10 20:32
schestowitzUser Survey 2009 < http://surveys.services.openoffice.org/surveys/index.php?sid=69531&lang=en > If only I used OOoMay 10 20:36
bgrt4wow, eu launches anything in russiaMay 10 20:36
bgrt4lol, "mostly bordering russia"May 10 20:36
bgrt4they all areMay 10 20:36
schestowitzI guess Amazon won't acquire trmanco...... http://www.techflash.com/Amazon_creates_own_URL_shortener_44601202.html (Amazon creates its own URL shortener for products)May 10 20:36
schestowitzbgrt4: ayeMay 10 20:37
bgrt4oh, so it's energy-wise planMay 10 20:37
trmancohehe, that would be nice now wouldn't it? :-PMay 10 20:37
bgrt4lolMay 10 20:38
bgrt4that would be lolMay 10 20:38
bgrt4trmancoMay 10 20:38
bgrt4i don't even get why czech is mentioned thereMay 10 20:38
bgrt4even though they speak almost russianMay 10 20:39
bgrt4lol, "They are our close eastern neighbours and we have a vital interest in their stability and prosperity."May 10 20:39
bgrt4wtfMay 10 20:39
bgrt4i can explain why they need that lack of energetic problemsMay 10 20:40
bgrt4but it surely doesn't help what they didMay 10 20:40
bgrt4unless they build yet another cableMay 10 20:40
bgrt4russian resources are kinda already cheapMay 10 20:41
bgrt4the only problem is that they come through ukraineMay 10 20:41
bgrt4that's not capable of keeping it's wordMay 10 20:42
bgrt4they steal themMay 10 20:42
bgrt4resourcesMay 10 20:42
bgrt4for which eu paidMay 10 20:42
bgrt4so if eu is gonna buy out that stealing willMay 10 20:42
bgrt4it's just wrongMay 10 20:42
bgrt4thieves don't sell their talent XDMay 10 20:43
bgrt4'cause it's what they live withMay 10 20:43
bgrt4that article is a complete lol, i can't even imagine how i will not have to fall under the table laughing if i didn't do that on potionsMay 10 20:45
bgrt4portions*May 10 20:45
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bgrt4i always thought that ajax means "not having to refresh the whole page to update details"May 10 20:48
bgrt4isn't there anything better mibbit could go withMay 10 20:48
schestowitzwho gets ubuntu.com e-mail addresses?May 10 20:49
schestowitzI confused that with canonical.com addressesMay 10 20:49
schestowitzhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2009-May/005713.htmlMay 10 20:50
schestowitzbgrt4: yes, but they have some good articlesMay 10 20:51
schestowitzBN is biggerMay 10 20:51
schestowitzThey cover a lot of stuff about patents and l0bbyistsMay 10 20:51
schestowitzToday is Mother’s Day I hope you guys called called  your mamma and made her happy. ;-)May 10 20:53
schestowitztrmanco: can you read this? http://meneame.net/story/net-applications-falseo-share-linux-para-favorecer-clienteMay 10 20:57
schestowitzMinceR can read this (cites BN): http://mogorvamormota.hu/2009/05/10/gnote/May 10 20:57
schestowitzBN at the Chinese Linux University: http://www.chineselinuxuniversity.net/news/54695.shtmlMay 10 20:58
trmancoschestowitz, don't know spanishMay 10 20:59
macabeIt alludes to Linux installed share FUD.May 10 21:00
schestowitztrmanco: thanks.May 10 21:00
schestowitzGooglebar has a nice button for translationMay 10 21:01
schestowitzGoogle Toolbar sucksMay 10 21:01
schestowitzSo I can't quite get a quick translationMay 10 21:01
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schestowitzI spent much time trying to mess about with settings, too.May 10 21:01
schestowitz Sites fail age verification check < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/technology/8039580.stm > It only arouses kids' curiosity when they are denied.May 10 21:02
trmancoman how I love thunderbirdMay 10 21:05
trmancovery extensibleMay 10 21:05
trmancobut still lack a good usenet extensionMay 10 21:05
trmancolacks*May 10 21:05
macabeA pesar de que los datos mostrados eran absurdos muchos medios de prensa como El Pais lo publicaron sin contrastar las fuentes.(Given that the shown data is absurd many in the media like EL PAIS published it nevertherless without question.May 10 21:07
schestowitztrmanco: knodeMay 10 21:09
schestowitzi use thunderbird more than ffMay 10 21:09
schestowitzThere has been FAR too little coverage of OpenOffice 3.1 release. http://www.bmighty.com/blog/main/archives/2009/05/openofficeorg_3_2.htmlMay 10 21:14
macabe(El iPhone de Apple, otro de los clientes de Net Applications, contaba con más share que Symbian, a pesar de que se han vendido más de 1.000 tfnos con Symbian por cada iPhone fabricado).(Apple's iPhone another of .NET APPLICATIONS client counted on a higher share than Symbian, given that 1000+ phones with Symbian were sold for every 1 iPhone manufactered.May 10 21:14
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macabeEl Share de Linux real podría situarse entre el 4 y el 20% (y hasta un 50% en ámbitos universitarios) - Linux real share could be placed at 4 to 20% (even 50% in university environments).May 10 21:17
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schestowitzHmmmmm.. in Romanian.. http://razvansandu.zando.ro/2009/05/fisiere-opendocument-in-ms-office-2007.htmlMay 10 21:22
schestowitzmacabe: depends on the countryMay 10 21:22
schestowitzIn Brazil it's quite highMay 10 21:22
schestowitzIn the US it's utterly lowMay 10 21:23
macabeThat was what the author wrote butt the comments are along the same train of thought. ".NET APPLICATIONS skews data favorable to its client"May 10 21:25
macabesoryy about the double ttMay 10 21:26
schestowitzRMS has thanked me for the post about "Free as in tobacco"May 10 21:26
schestowitzmacabe: the question is, what is their business model?May 10 21:26
schestowitzLike Microsoft saysMay 10 21:26
schestowitzIt's to sell outMay 10 21:26
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schestowitzThey sell consulting/servciesMay 10 21:26
schestowitzI.e. they can offer bias/access in return for contractsMay 10 21:27
macabeYou can see that people no matter where are leary and suspicious of ANALysts and big media.May 10 21:28
schestowitzUS interrogators may have killed dozens, human rights researcher and rights group say < http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/06/us-interrogators-killed-dozens-human-rights-researcher-and-rights-group-say/ >May 10 21:29
bgrt4wtfMay 10 21:29
bgrt4i just asked c++ channel about the oop problemsMay 10 21:30
bgrt4and they banned meMay 10 21:30
bgrt4actually about oop problemsetMay 10 21:30
bgrt4only one of them tried a bit to produce anything near to oopMay 10 21:30
schestowitzWar on dissent? What Is Muni’s Photography Policy?? < http://www.whatimseeing.com/2009/05/06/what-is-munis-photography-policy/ >May 10 21:30
bgrt4but even he failedMay 10 21:30
bgrt4and i'm still banned from there XDMay 10 21:31
schestowitzMaybe it's a flamewarMay 10 21:31
schestowitzLinus would be banned tooMay 10 21:31
bgrt4lolMay 10 21:31
bgrt4i know what's oop more than 75% of themMay 10 21:31
bgrt4even though i didn't use it for yearsMay 10 21:31
schestowitzwhat's the chan's address?May 10 21:31
schestowitzcplusplus?May 10 21:31
bgrt4#c++May 10 21:31
bgrt4##c++May 10 21:32
schestowitzAh, it does symbolsMay 10 21:32
schestowitzBusy houseMay 10 21:32
bgrt4in either caseMay 10 21:32
bgrt4i was just asking them for oop problemsetMay 10 21:32
bgrt4as a tutorialMay 10 21:32
schestowitzZogby Poll: Majority support legalization < http://www.dosenation.com/listing.php?smlid=6232 >May 10 21:32
bgrt4like top level tutorialMay 10 21:32
schestowitzOf course, it's not the majority that defined policyMay 10 21:33
schestowitzIt's elite opinionMay 10 21:33
bgrt4but they just produced stupidity and ban at lastMay 10 21:33
schestowitzCriminilization of everything to enable imprisonment and separation of lower classesMay 10 21:33
schestowitzLet me try somethingMay 10 21:33
schestowitzschestowitz> HiMay 10 21:34
schestowitz<schestowitz> Why was bgrt4 banned?May 10 21:34
schestowitz<bytbox> schestowitz: byeMay 10 21:34
schestowitzI've just left itMay 10 21:35
bgrt4XDMay 10 21:35
schestowitzSeems like they have some nutters thereMay 10 21:35
bgrt4it's funnyMay 10 21:35
schestowitzI just say hiMay 10 21:35
bgrt4'cause it's freenodeMay 10 21:35
schestowitzThey say "bye"May 10 21:35
schestowitzBefore I even said the second thingMay 10 21:35
bgrt4don't try to unban meMay 10 21:35
schestowitzSimultaneousMay 10 21:35
schestowitz"<schestowitz> Why was bgrt4 banned?" and "<bytbox> schestowitz: bye" just one second apartMay 10 21:36
bgrt4i'm far beyond helpingMay 10 21:36
bgrt4and i know why i was bannedMay 10 21:36
bgrt4'cause people are just not capable of oopMay 10 21:36
bgrt4there are plenty of good tasks on oopMay 10 21:36
bgrt4even for expertsMay 10 21:37
bgrt4and i asked for themMay 10 21:37
bgrt4considering they know anythingMay 10 21:37
bgrt4but they didn'tMay 10 21:37
schestowitzYes, we do need government inspectors < http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/26/713328/-Yes,-we-do-need-government-inspectors >May 10 21:37
schestowitzThe Bush forces get the job done: Government Could Destroy Records in Hundreds of Guantanamo Cases < http://www.propublica.org/article/government-could-destroy-records-in-hundreds-of-guantanamo-cases-507 >May 10 21:38
schestowitzInteresting. Mother's Day falls under many different days across the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother%27s_dayMay 10 21:43
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schestowitzFork of knife? http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/05/08/nagios-fork-commercial-growing-pains-commercial-interests/ ( Community and commercial interest drove Nagios fork)May 10 21:56
schestowitzTake control of your android/G1, put GNU on it.. http://androidsocialmedia.com/root-access/android-g1-root-access-why-howMay 10 21:58
schestowitzHigh Quality #GIMP #Tutorials http://www.gimpplus.com/May 10 22:00
schestowitzSome very weird site is shoving very old news into Google news.. "kernel v2.6.23, gcc v4.1.1, gblic v2.5, and Eclipse v3.2.2." http://www.pressreleasepoint.com/terra-soft-today-released-yellow-dog-linux-v60-sony-ps3-apple-g4g5-and-ibm-system-p-built-upon-centoMay 10 22:05
trmanco|-|3y |00k, 7hund3r81rd (4n wr173 1n |337May 10 22:06
trmancohahaMay 10 22:07
schestowitzThe Preston Gralla shill is attacking Linux againMay 10 22:08
schestowitzHe uses the Microsoft-sponosored numbersMay 10 22:08
schestowitzAnd the shill references shillMay 10 22:08
schestowitzVery familiar siteMay 10 22:08
schestowitzMicrosoft seeds (sponsors lies), then its shills echoes it in the press, other shills cite itMay 10 22:09
schestowitzMicrosoft seeds (sponsors) lies like NPD, then its shill echoes it in the press, other shills cite it. Classic.May 10 22:10
schestowitzNow it's Net ApplicationsMay 10 22:10
schestowitzFrom the folks who brought you  "Get the Facts"May 10 22:10
schestowitzHooked!  [on GNU/Linux] : http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ew/2009/05/11/stories/2009051150010100.htmMay 10 22:12
MinceRhow are you gentlemen !!May 10 22:12
schestowitzHeh. :-| !!May 10 22:12
MinceRi like the mogorvamormota article you linkedMay 10 22:14
schestowitzTechradar most just reposts lots of Linux Format articles these days. It's a shame that they haven't published new and original articles recently.May 10 22:15
schestowitzWhat's the site of the egg tosser?May 10 22:15
schestowitzIt would be funny if it was anchored repeatedly under the phrase "the Ballmer egg treatment". Ballmer travels to Asia for tomorrow... where he will probably do some 'smart' bribery.May 10 22:17
MinceRhttp://nagyorgy.uw.hu/May 10 22:17
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schestowitzToday was a sad day. I found out my streaming mirror/microblog server had been cracked. They exploited webmin and set up shop.  http://www.thelinuxlink.net/myblog/?p=197May 10 22:18
*schestowitz writes down address under templateMay 10 22:19
schestowitzWhat is Tarka Magyar?May 10 22:20
schestowitzHe's like the shoe thrower really (Bush). He did it for all of us.May 10 22:20
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MinceRsome sort of political stuff, unrelated to the m$ issueMay 10 22:22
schestowitzWait, I Thought Command Lines Were More Evil Than Hitler?  < http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=wait_i_thought_command_lines_were_more_e&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 >May 10 22:28
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schestowitzMinceR: "m$" is political too. Very much so.May 10 22:28
schestowitzMcBush wanted to make Ballmer his gun for the world's next superpower (China)May 10 22:29
MinceRthat's why i said it's unrelated to that.May 10 22:29
schestowitz"I hope I won’t be out of line if I point out that abandoning X on one machine, eschewing both X and the framebuffer on another, and spending a lot of time compiling on the third … seems to have had a rather positive effect on my productivity." http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2009/05/10/do-more-with-less/May 10 22:30
schestowitzDon't worryMay 10 22:31
schestowitzChina will treat us wellMay 10 22:31
schestowitzTheir troops will pay a visit only when our cronies stop taking ordersMay 10 22:31
schestowitzAnd they will have 700 military bases in our countriesMay 10 22:31
schestowitzBut we will love them regardlessMay 10 22:31
schestowitzBecause they Self.PromoteDemocracy(-1);May 10 22:32
schestowitzIf we act nicely, then they'll build shoe factories in our countries and send us some of their treasures by sea (garbage disposal)May 10 22:33
schestowitzThey will say it's very precious and contain 1% of things like old cellphone (and cabbage)May 10 22:33
schestowitzThey might set up the Shen Foundation to send us drugs to get addicted to (or to rest these drugs to see if it's safe)May 10 22:34
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schestowitzCheck it out: The First Computer Mouse - Circa 1964 < http://linuxshellaccount.blogspot.com/2009/05/first-computer-mouse-circa-1964.html >. So wait, mice were not invaded by Apple and Microsoft?May 10 22:36
schestowitzA Look at Firefox Custom Builds  < http://www.palluxo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=211:a-look-at-firefox-custom-builds&catid=90:blogs&Itemid=284 >May 10 22:37
schestowitz"KDE not as pretty as Vista," some people say, but: http://www.killertechtips.com/2009/05/09/download-windows-7-transformation-pack-for-kde/May 10 22:39
schestowitzWhy Windows users should switch to Linux < http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/why-windows-users-should-switch-to-linux-596940?artc_pg=1 >May 10 22:40
MinceRinvented, not invaded :>May 10 22:41
schestowitzGreat rave about Mandriva and KDE 4.2.2 http://pclinuxos2007.blogspot.com/2009/05/mandriva-linux-20091-spring-steps-ahead.htmlMay 10 22:43
schestowitzMinceR: they were not kept in the zooMay 10 22:43
schestowitzthief steve jobs? http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j156/mballek/SteveJobs.jpgMay 10 22:44
schestowitzDid Palm's UI imitate another?May 10 22:44
schestowitzThe ipHone reminds me of the classic Palm OS menuMay 10 22:44
schestowitzhttp://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/03/ballmer-eats-zune.jpgMay 10 22:45
schestowitzhttp://blog.jjtcomputing.co.uk/2009/05/10/mandriva-20091/ "All in all, Mandriva is an excellent distribution"May 10 22:47
schestowitzLinux has LGA http://www.linuxgenuineadvantage.org/May 10 22:48
MinceR:DMay 10 22:52
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schestowitzICEpdf PDF rendering engine now open source < http://www.h-online.com/open/ICEpdf-PDF-rendering-engine-now-open-source--/news/113241 > This would be handy.May 10 22:53
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MinceRcorpocracy in france >> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/09/229217&from=rssMay 10 23:38
schestowitzOld newss :-)May 10 23:40
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schestowitzwb, _Hicham_ May 10 23:41
_Hicham_Hi schestowitz!May 10 23:41
_Hicham_did u go to the gym today?May 10 23:41
schestowitzMinceR: there was a scarier thing there recentlyMay 10 23:41
schestowitzI think it was a French nuclear energy companyMay 10 23:41
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_Hicham_what a shame!May 10 23:42
schestowitzThey aliaised with the British police to attack Greenpeace protesters or something along the lines. So it was cross-border police state/corporocracy.May 10 23:42
schestowitz_Hicham_: I did, yesMay 10 23:42
_Hicham_why some countries are allowed to have nuclear energy while others don't?May 10 23:42
schestowitzSome girl that I like was there :-)May 10 23:42
_Hicham_oooooooooooh, schestowitz' gfMay 10 23:43
schestowitz_Hicham_: energy or weaponsMay 10 23:43
_Hicham_bothMay 10 23:43
schestowitzLevels of enrichment varyMay 10 23:43
MinceR_Hicham_: they want to hold on to the powerMay 10 23:43
schestowitzThe US usually gets to decide to whom it's OKMay 10 23:43
_Hicham_Iran for exampleMay 10 23:43
schestowitzOK=friends of the westMay 10 23:43
schestowitzIt's the dark/bright divisionMay 10 23:43
schestowitzThey must have a division into halvesMay 10 23:43
MinceRlackeys of the usa vs. terroristsMay 10 23:44
_Hicham_friends of the west = staying poorMay 10 23:44
mib_o9od7fSome are not good  enough to have the nukeMay 10 23:44
schestowitzThe Rockefellers say they want to get rid of Chavez nextMay 10 23:44
schestowitzPoor ChavezMay 10 23:44
MinceR(except for the ones they can't intimidate, of course)May 10 23:44
schestowitzHe is cursedMay 10 23:44
MinceR(china, for example)May 10 23:44
schestowitzBorn in a country with a sea of energy beneath ofMay 10 23:44
schestowitz*itMay 10 23:44
_Hicham_Chavez and KaddafiMay 10 23:44
_Hicham_we have Kaddafi in the Arab WorldMay 10 23:45
_Hicham_Kaddafi is the craziest president on earthMay 10 23:45
MinceRgnMay 10 23:45
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_Hicham_gn MinceRMay 10 23:45
schestowitz_Hicham_: he looked into OLPCMay 10 23:45
_Hicham_who?May 10 23:46
schestowitz_Hicham_: we have Bush in the western worldMay 10 23:46
schestowitzBush was the craziest president on earthMay 10 23:46
schestowitzSchwarzenegger is the stupidest governor on earthMay 10 23:46
_Hicham_Schwarzenegger?May 10 23:46
_Hicham_I like himMay 10 23:47
schestowitzSchwarzenegger is a fanb0i of Bush, grantedMay 10 23:47
_Hicham_he is a good exampleMay 10 23:47
_Hicham_hahaMay 10 23:47
schestowitzJa ja... go to IrawMay 10 23:47
schestowitzGet zem oil!May 10 23:47
schestowitzSchnellMay 10 23:47
_Hicham_a strong governorMay 10 23:47
_Hicham_with big musclesMay 10 23:47
schestowitzWellMay 10 23:47
schestowitzHe's just a steroid guyMay 10 23:47
schestowitzHehe. More like big needlesMay 10 23:47
_Hicham_he must have lost his ballsMay 10 23:47
schestowitzAnd a quad bypassMay 10 23:47
_Hicham_steroids kills spermatozoidsMay 10 23:48
schestowitzDoes he have kids?May 10 23:48
_Hicham_yes, he doMay 10 23:48
schestowitzI think he was married to some anchorMay 10 23:48
_Hicham_he have had an accident with his son on a bikeMay 10 23:48
_Hicham_he acts like he is in a movieMay 10 23:48
_Hicham_and think that politics are just like a movieMay 10 23:49
schestowitzYesMay 10 23:49
schestowitzSo do CaliforniansMay 10 23:49
_Hicham_that is why californians like himMay 10 23:49
schestowitzIt's scaryMay 10 23:49
schestowitzDo you know what CA's debt is like?May 10 23:49
_Hicham_noMay 10 23:49
_Hicham_how much?May 10 23:49
schestowitzIt's very dangerous that they like himMay 10 23:49
schestowitzHe could be elected presidentMay 10 23:49
schestowitzHad he been born not in AustriaMay 10 23:49
schestowitzThough they intend to modify the law IIRCMay 10 23:50
schestowitzAnd Palin..May 10 23:50
schestowitzOh God!May 10 23:50
trmancoArnold lost his artificial musclesMay 10 23:50
_Hicham_where was he born?May 10 23:50
_Hicham_Palin is sexyMay 10 23:50
trmancohe fast AFAIKMay 10 23:50
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anxkrm9uEJkMay 10 23:50
trmancofat*May 10 23:50
_Hicham_all americans are looking for her pictures nakedMay 10 23:50
trmancowell, not fat, elastic...May 10 23:50
schestowitz_Hicham_: there are fake onesMay 10 23:51
_Hicham_I knowMay 10 23:51
schestowitzSome relatives from the US sent me mails, they thought it was funnyMay 10 23:51
_Hicham_mails about what?May 10 23:51
schestowitzElections there could be like a pageantMay 10 23:52
schestowitzWhere at the last round they check if there is an ounce of intelligenceMay 10 23:52
schestowitzBy asking some superficial questionsMay 10 23:52
schestowitzIt's insultingMay 10 23:52
schestowitzIt's like Woody the woodpecker. Knock nock? Brains therE? Hallllllo?May 10 23:52
_Hicham_well, u know americaMay 10 23:52
schestowitzBut they could elect themMay 10 23:53
schestowitzSee the video (YouTube)May 10 23:53
_Hicham_by the way, MS have some strange questions to appliersMay 10 23:53
_Hicham_do u know the manhole question?May 10 23:53
bgrt4macabe, don't you think that if you talk in english then much more people understand yaMay 10 23:53
_Hicham_it is very MS specificMay 10 23:53
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bgrt4wtf is manhole question?May 10 23:54
bgrt4manhole...May 10 23:54
bgrt4very m$ specific...May 10 23:55
_Hicham_wb oiaohmMay 10 23:55
bgrt4i'm about to be frightened to use m$ at allMay 10 23:55
schestowitzYeah, weird thatMay 10 23:55
schestowitzLOLMay 10 23:55
_Hicham_do u know it schestowitz?May 10 23:55
schestowitzKnow what?May 10 23:55
bgrt4come on _Hicham_May 10 23:55
bgrt4tell it alreadyMay 10 23:56
_Hicham_MS manhole questionMay 10 23:56
_Hicham_it is very knownMay 10 23:56
_Hicham_i can't believe u don't know itMay 10 23:56
_Hicham_Miguel must have failed to answer itMay 10 23:56
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=manhole+question&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8May 10 23:56
schestowitzDoesn't seem to trigger anything obviousMay 10 23:57
_Hicham_well, the traditional MS question for new appliers is a follow : " why is a manhole round?"May 10 23:57
_Hicham_can u answer that questioNMay 10 23:57
_Hicham_?May 10 23:57
bgrt4lolMay 10 23:58
oiaohmAnd I normal answer not all manhole's are.May 10 23:58
bgrt4CFMay 10 23:58
bgrt4XDMay 10 23:58
_Hicham_one good answerMay 10 23:58
oiaohmYes some are square.May 10 23:58
bgrt4wtfMay 10 23:58
bgrt4why id msnhole round?May 10 23:59
_Hicham_http://blogs.msdn.com/bgroth/archive/2004/09/27/235071.aspxMay 10 23:59
_Hicham_it is an old postMay 10 23:59

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