IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 16th, 2009

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yuhongSo the web site is down.May 16 00:13
schestowitzYes, might be back shortlyMay 16 00:14
schestowitzThe question is, will we move to dedicated or not?May 16 00:14
schestowitzThe host is pressuring us to pay loads for dedicatedMay 16 00:15
schestowitzBut they advertise certain capacity they don't want to deliverMay 16 00:15
yuhongBTW, what do you think of my recent comments?May 16 00:15
schestowitzMaybe I'll move it over to my host in IrelandMay 16 00:15
schestowitzyuhong: which ones? None todayMay 16 00:15
yuhongThe one I posted before the site went down.May 16 00:16
yuhongI mean just before.May 16 00:16
schestowitzMaybe I haven't had the chance to read itMay 16 00:17
schestowitzI don't think I haveMay 16 00:17
schestowitzBut it's there if you posted itMay 16 00:17
yuhongI pointed out, for example, about how Larry Ellison did dumpster divingMay 16 00:18
yuhongto reveal Microsoft paid shills like ACT.May 16 00:18
yuhongMany of these shills was discussed on BN.May 16 00:19
schestowitzRaising of Funds for GNU's Solution to Flash Problems http://www.openmedianow.org/?q=node/39May 16 00:21
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schestowitzyuhong: did they publish what they found?May 16 00:21
schestowitzOr internally only?May 16 00:21
yuhongThey did.May 16 00:22
schestowitzOn the Net?May 16 00:22
yuhonghttp://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,49039,00.htmlMay 16 00:23
yuhonghttp://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-96149.htmlMay 16 00:24
yuhongschestowitz: What do you think about it?May 16 00:26
yuhongOn Netscape, I understand how MS ruined it's business model now.May 16 00:28
yuhongBasically it was a race to the bottom.May 16 00:29
yuhongBasically it worked like this.May 16 00:29
yuhongNetscape was making money on the browser.May 16 00:30
schestowitzGot it for publication soonMay 16 00:30
yuhongSo MS made IE free, killing that money stream.May 16 00:30
yuhongNetscape tried to recover by making money on web server software.May 16 00:31
yuhongExcept that MS made IIS free, killing that also.May 16 00:31
yuhongThe sad thing was that it also ended up affecting companies like Opera Software.May 16 00:32
yuhonghttp://www.ethicsandbusiness.org/survey/survey5.htmlMay 16 00:38
_Hicham_because they didn't get along with MicrosoftMay 16 00:45
_Hicham_the best thing to do is that they had to collaborate to kill MicrosoftMay 16 00:45
_Hicham_instead of releasing software for themMay 16 00:45
_Hicham_they must be an international consortium to end up Microsoft monopolyMay 16 00:46
schestowitzgnMay 16 00:47
_Hicham_I don't agree on releasing Open Source software for WindowsMay 16 00:47
_Hicham_gn schestowitzMay 16 00:47
yuhong what is gn?May 16 00:47
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzMay 16 00:47
_Hicham_good nightMay 16 00:48
_Hicham_yuhong : where are u from?May 16 00:48
yuhongWhat do you mean?May 16 00:49
yuhongOn the iPhone, I think the way Apple locks up the iPhone platform are well known by now.May 16 00:51
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shreddarWhat happend to the site?May 16 00:58
shreddarI think I'm going to want to have all the removed/recoverd Comes vs. Microsoft exibit PDF's now.May 16 00:59
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shreddarSoo, what happend to the site?May 16 01:04
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_GoblinIm not sure of what exactly happened but Roy is sorting it out.May 16 01:04
_GoblinI didnt catch the message in regards to why it was downMay 16 01:05
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zer0c00lAgain BN is downMay 16 01:13
zer0c00lwhere is schestowitzMay 16 01:13
zer0c00lslept ?May 16 01:13
_Goblinyeah hes gone to bed I thinkMay 16 01:14
_Goblinabout 1/2 an hour agoMay 16 01:14
zer0c00lis it DDOS or something?May 16 01:14
zer0c00l_Goblin, okMay 16 01:14
_Goblinnot sure, I didnt see the message about it...hes working on it thoughMay 16 01:15
zer0c00lokMay 16 01:15
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Balrog_"Sorry for the inconvenience, we have to find a bigger server, no ETA yet."May 16 02:24
Balrog_<< zer0c00lMay 16 02:24
Balrog_looks like it's full :(May 16 02:24
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twitterno BN today.  how sad.May 16 02:27
twitterany good news?May 16 02:27
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twitterBill Gates dumps 3 million shares at less than $20 http://www.streetinsider.com/Insider+Trades/Does+Bill+Gates+Have+An+Open+Sell+Order+On+His+Microsoft+(MSFT)+Stock%3F+Dumps+20M+Shares+In+10+Trading+Days/4653590.htmlMay 16 02:38
twitterbuying for more than that makes you a chump.May 16 02:38
twitterIf M$ is buying stocks, it's people executives raping the company.May 16 02:39
twitterThey sell out and leave the worker bees with a lot of useless paper and a failed company.May 16 02:40
twitterI doubt they will be dumb enough to give Bill $17 billion.May 16 02:40
twitterbut the company has done dumber things.May 16 02:41
twitterIn other news, M$ takes on debt.  http://ajax.sys-con.com/node/964794May 16 02:43
twitterThe article speculates the 3.75 billion dollars are going toward acquisitions and assures it's readers that the company has plenty of cash.May 16 02:43
twitterI'm not so sure.  Could it be that they are actually out of money and ready to implode?May 16 02:44
ushimitsudokiNo. It is not possible that Microsoft is out of money. They have about $25B cash on hand, and the bond offering was extremely well-received. Unless they are straight up cooking the books (ala Enron and unlikely in the extreme), they are still in a good financial position. Maybe not as nice as they would like, but they are nowhere close to being "ready to implode". The "taking on debt" is actually a sign of financial May 16 02:48
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twitterthey have lied in the past and can by lying now.  Yes, straight up cook the books.May 16 03:00
twitterVista failed hard.May 16 03:00
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twitterBefore the recession took out their OEM channel.May 16 03:00
twitterIt's not like they backed of their $1 billion / month advertising budget.May 16 03:01
twitterSo it's likely their last $20 billion could have evaporated over the last two years or so.May 16 03:01
twitterand they have nothing.May 16 03:01
twitterIt's not like big dumb companies can afford to pay them anything anymore.  Banks, insurance, government, car dealers all have big problems and no one but no one wants Vista.May 16 03:02
twitterWe shall see.  $3.75 billion will buy them a couple of months.May 16 03:04
ushimitsudokiThat's largely true, but Vista will soon be out of the picture, replaced by Win7. So, MS has stumbled but Win7 could go either way. The impact of Vista (no doubt a failure) is largely over, and the impact of Win7 will soon be very importantMay 16 03:04
twitterWin7 will implode them for sure.May 16 03:07
twitterWho's left for the to channel stuff?May 16 03:07
ushimitsudokiIf Win7 fails like Vista, then MS will be in deep trouble, I agree. I hope it does, but I don't see the "fail" as obviously for Win7 as I did for Vista. This might just be my own viewpoint - before Vista I was still using Windows at home, and it was because of Vista I moved to Linux - I don't follow Win/MS nearly as closely as I used to.May 16 03:09
twitterCompUSA?  Gone.  Circuit City? Gone.  Best Buy?  Teetering on bankruptcy.  Walmart, Target and others have tiny inventories - they are still sore from Vista.  Good luck getting them to pony up.May 16 03:09
twitterNo one follows Win closely anymore.  That's why they will fail.May 16 03:09
twitter:)  good bye to bad software.May 16 03:10
twitterThe world is looking for something better than iPhone.  Like iTouch with Skype or plain old SIP service.May 16 03:11
twitterWindows 7 is not what people want because people are not interested in desktops.  They want persistent internet in their pocket.  Winblows can't deliver that at all.May 16 03:12
twitterGoogle is going to clean their clock with Android and desktops that are left will drift to GNU/Linux.May 16 03:12
ushimitsudokiI hope so, but MS will not go gently.May 16 03:13
twitterthey have not gone gently.  they have screamed and yelled and bankrupted most of their partnersMay 16 03:13
twitterthey have back stabbed and harassed themselves right off a cliff.May 16 03:15
twitterthe only people who bother to watch are those who want to kick them off faster.May 16 03:15
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twitterTheir channel people are pretty demoralized because Winblows has not gotten better.May 16 03:16
twitterBill Gates promised the end of spam, what, five years ago?  Ha! all the usual malware is out there and worse than ever.May 16 03:17
twitterthere's nothing M$ repair shops can do but wipe and reload again and again.May 16 03:17
twitterThis has gone on for almost a decade and people are sick of it.May 16 03:17
twitterThey might put up with it for a new feature or two but Vista provided absolutely nothing of value and was buggier than normal on top of it all.May 16 03:18
twitterWindows 7 is just rebranded Vista.  They could have ripped off OSX or GNU/Linux window management and people would have been happy.  Instead they pretended to be original and provided stuff that sucked out loud.May 16 03:19
twitter"Oh, look, you can write notes on the back of your browser!" As if you are going to remember the site and that you have a note there.May 16 03:20
twitterOr did they not even deliver that useless feature?May 16 03:21
twitterNearly 30 years after project Athena gave everyone virtual desktops, Windows has yet to implement the concept with any grace.May 16 03:22
twitterI tried to do some basic web research at work today.  The machine had XP and it sucked life completely.  There was no post script viewer.  There were no tabs in the browser and each new site was a new window.  Clutter city.  Pdfs had to be read in Adobe Reader which did not even have a search bar for text ... it was a fucking menu item.May 16 03:25
twitterAll of that crammed onto a single desktop.May 16 03:25
twitterit was impossible to put away, much less organize.  it was like trying to write a term paper on top of a shoe box in a bath tub full of water.May 16 03:26
twitterOh yeah, I was not trying to write anything.May 16 03:26
twitterI never got so far as to try to write notes.  Only someone at M$ would think the back of a browser is a good place to write notes.  So much handier than a notebook they must have though.May 16 03:28
twitterabsolutely, completely inadequate.May 16 03:28
twitterworthelessMay 16 03:29
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twitterVista 7 hype log updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/216759May 16 03:37
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twitterM$ Death Watch updated.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707May 16 03:42
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mvkfopwwtf is wrong with this safari? since i installed it it always reads all my drives and nothing to switch it off withMay 16 04:16
twitterJust use GNU/Linux.May 16 04:18
twitterKonqueror is better than Safari.May 16 04:19
zer0c00ltwitter, i had problem with konquerorMay 16 04:25
zer0c00l:(May 16 04:25
zer0c00lcant make https work with proxiesMay 16 04:25
zer0c00lin konquerorMay 16 04:25
twitteruse TORMay 16 04:26
zer0c00lprivoxy?May 16 04:26
zer0c00lTOR blocked hereMay 16 04:26
zer0c00l:(May 16 04:26
zer0c00lthey block connect method access to numerical ips'sMay 16 04:26
twitterI did not know you could block torMay 16 04:27
zer0c00lin squidMay 16 04:27
zer0c00lyeah , 1 squid rule will block torMay 16 04:27
zer0c00llet me post it hereMay 16 04:27
zer0c00lacl numeric_IPs url_regex ^[0-9]+\.[0-9]+\.[0-9]+\.[0-9]+May 16 04:28
zer0c00lhttp_access deny CONNECT numeric_IPs allMay 16 04:28
zer0c00lit will block TOR, ultrasurf and skypeMay 16 04:29
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zer0c00lso, no one can directly connect to a numerical IPMay 16 04:29
zer0c00ltwitter, check it in your setup and tell me whether it works or notMay 16 04:30
twittercheck what?May 16 04:31
zer0c00llol that squid ruleMay 16 04:32
zer0c00l:PMay 16 04:32
twitterdon't have squid runningMay 16 04:32
zer0c00lokMay 16 04:32
twitteror do I ...May 16 04:32
zer0c00lbut that squid rule really blocks TOR :(May 16 04:33
zer0c00li confirmed it with TOR develsMay 16 04:33
zer0c00lthey asked me to use some kind of bridgeMay 16 04:33
twitteryou can't just run TOR?  you can only see the internet through that squid ?May 16 04:34
twitterI'm afraid you have no privacy in such a network anyway.May 16 04:35
mvkfopwprivacy is not that 100% in tor eitherMay 16 04:35
twitterespecially if you have to go through some little black box from your cable or dsl company in the first place.May 16 04:36
mvkfopwand everybody goes through it for sureMay 16 04:36
twitterI'm afraid you will only get privacy with equipment bought with cash used at public access sites.May 16 04:37
mvkfopwthere's no privacy in the internetMay 16 04:37
twittereven then you will have to forge the device address and rotate devices routinely.May 16 04:38
twitterthere is privacy in a crowd, unless your profile has already been builtMay 16 04:38
twitterthen you can be found anywhere.May 16 04:38
twitterand your profile has already been built if you are visiting BN.May 16 04:39
mvkfopwyupMay 16 04:39
mvkfopwif you visit freenodeMay 16 04:39
twitterthe electronic police state sucks like that.May 16 04:39
DaemonFCinterestingMay 16 04:39
twitterbetter laws need to be made soonMay 16 04:39
DaemonFCWindows Update in Windows 7 7123 still tries to pull in Vista drivers for Logitech camsMay 16 04:39
DaemonFCwhich doesn't workMay 16 04:39
DaemonFCeven though Logitech sent them a driver with initial support last weekMay 16 04:40
mvkfopwfor which device is that driver?May 16 04:41
DaemonFCQuickcam Comunicate Deluxe s7500May 16 04:42
twitterI've seen that before.May 16 04:43
twitterIn XP.May 16 04:43
twitterdevice maker gives a reasonable driver but M$ distributes an old broken one instead.May 16 04:44
twitterand people wonder what kind of power M$ has over device makers, huh.May 16 04:44
twitterthis is one of the biggest reasons to not use Windows, your devices will be broken sooner or later.May 16 04:45
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/05/april-2009-browser-stats-firefox-and-chrome-gain.arsMay 16 04:46
DaemonFCit's officialMay 16 04:46
DaemonFCInternet Explorer is now Pac-ManMay 16 04:46
mvkfopwwtfMay 16 04:48
twitter Net Applications, worthlessMay 16 04:49
twitterArs Techinia stats, interesting.May 16 04:49
DaemonFCOpera hasn't budged since 1999 :PMay 16 04:50
DaemonFCthey even released it as freeware and it didn't helpMay 16 04:50
twitterI wonder what their OS share looks like, but my guess is that roughly 20% are Mac (because of Safari use) and about 40% are GNU/LinuxMay 16 04:51
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/05/crackhocom-dns-prank-ruffles-sarah-palins-feathers.arsMay 16 04:51
DaemonFCnoMay 16 04:51
DaemonFCSafari is pushed out to a lot of Windows users tooMay 16 04:51
DaemonFCthey trojan it in when you update Quicktime or iTunesMay 16 04:51
mvkfopwsafari and chrome are effing hdds for unknown reasonMay 16 04:53
DaemonFCI doubt itMay 16 04:54
mvkfopwthe best innocent guess is that they do it for speculative browsing XDMay 16 04:54
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/buggy-breathalyzer-code-reflects-importance-of-source-review.arsMay 16 04:55
mvkfopwbut even in this case they violate your privacyMay 16 04:56
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twitterSo what percentage of the combined Safari and Firefox crowd do you think is Windoze?May 16 04:57
DaemonFCwell, most Firefox users are obviously on WindowsMay 16 04:58
DaemonFCand most Safari users are obviously on MacsMay 16 04:58
DaemonFCbut 2-3% of the Safari use is probably Windows machinesMay 16 04:58
oiaohmLargest block of Firefox users are Windows.May 16 04:58
zer0c00lElection results here in india today :)May 16 04:59
twitterWhy do you think most FF users are on Windows?May 16 04:59
zer0c00lcounting has startedMay 16 04:59
DaemonFCyeah, by sheer virtue of being 9 out of every 10 operating systems installedMay 16 04:59
twitterwhat makes you think that?May 16 04:59
twitter9/10 is a decade ago.May 16 04:59
mvkfopwtwitter, it's by numbersMay 16 05:00
mvkfopwnot percentageMay 16 05:00
twitterI don't see OS numbers.May 16 05:00
mvkfopwlike there are more ff windows users than ff linuxMay 16 05:01
oiaohmNumbers suggest that Firefox will be the most dominate browser out there.May 16 05:01
oiaohmOut of those numbers also suggest most firefox users are still windows.May 16 05:01
mvkfopwbut percentage of ff in linux is >May 16 05:01
oiaohmProblem is you cannot really give a exact percent.May 16 05:01
mvkfopwof course notMay 16 05:02
DaemonFCwell, Linux users represent about 1%May 16 05:02
twitterbullshitMay 16 05:02
DaemonFCso Firefox users on Linux couldn't be more than 1% of themMay 16 05:02
oiaohmThat is highly changable.May 16 05:02
mvkfopwseems like i'm uninstalling this safari right away, same answers about hdd activity, no any official answerMay 16 05:02
oiaohmHighest percent record of Linux is about 15 percent.May 16 05:03
mvkfopwonly guesseMay 16 05:03
mvkfopwsMay 16 05:03
oiaohmLowest is 0.5May 16 05:03
oiaohmSo it somewhere in there.May 16 05:03
mvkfopw0.5 doesn't make senseMay 16 05:03
DaemonFCyes, it's so low that rounding error is probably more than Linux usersMay 16 05:03
twitterMicrosoft itself has better than .5 % GNU/Linux desktop use.May 16 05:03
twitter1% is a huge lieMay 16 05:03
oiaohmFirefox usage is somewhere between 40 to 60 percent.May 16 05:04
DaemonFCwell, it's not just one company that puts those out saying FF is 20-25%May 16 05:04
DaemonFCbut a lot of Firefox users block adsMay 16 05:04
DaemonFCso they're probably under-representedMay 16 05:04
DaemonFCin a survey based on ad hitsMay 16 05:05
oiaohmI cut out ad hit surveying.May 16 05:05
DaemonFCdoesn't mean there's foul play or MS is buying anyoneMay 16 05:05
oiaohmadblock make that highly bias.May 16 05:05
DaemonFCexactlyMay 16 05:05
twitterSafari has next to no use on Windows in 2008 http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2008/05/safari-for-windows-triples-infinitesimal-market-share.arsMay 16 05:05
DaemonFCmore Firefox, Safari, Chrome, and Opera users will block adsMay 16 05:05
DaemonFCbecause of the kind of user that uses MSIEMay 16 05:05
twitterSo that 20% is almost all Mac share.May 16 05:05
DaemonFCand the difficulty of getting a good ad blocker for itMay 16 05:06
twitterIf ars does not confuse Konq for Safari.May 16 05:06
oiaohmSite visitors are what my numbers were based on.May 16 05:06
DaemonFCSafari has two extra identifiersMay 16 05:06
DaemonFCone for Safari versionMay 16 05:06
oiaohmTo many different sites.May 16 05:06
twitterKonq is obviously GNU/Linux.  I wonder if that's why the M$ trolls like to promote FF on GNU/Linux.May 16 05:06
DaemonFCone for AppleWebKit versionMay 16 05:06
twitterit skews site statsMay 16 05:06
twitterhides GNU/Linux.May 16 05:07
DaemonFCno, Konqueror is just kind of ewwwMay 16 05:07
oiaohmKonq also has browser masking.May 16 05:07
DaemonFCit has trouble loading a lot of sitesMay 16 05:07
oiaohmSo it can end up counted as IE on some sites.May 16 05:07
oiaohmThat is the other issue.   The detect method used for browsers is a bit iffy.May 16 05:08
DaemonFCwell, web markup languages are complicated to the point where it's entirely possible to fuck up the page without any Microsoft backingMay 16 05:08
oiaohmParticually if you saw mine as the moment.  It returns firefox running on a c64.May 16 05:08
DaemonFCbut IE and most other browsers can correct the pageMay 16 05:08
twitterCell phones are proving that OS market diversity leads to better network security http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/04/cellphone-os-diversity-protecting-against-viruses.arsMay 16 05:09
twittereven though cell phones often use crappy non free OS, there are enough of them to prevent Windows type problems.May 16 05:09
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oiaohmAlso cell phones most of them have sane defaults.May 16 05:09
oiaohmIn there secuirty.May 16 05:09
oiaohmNever forget the importance of how well OS secuirty is setup to the outcomes of virus resistance.May 16 05:10
twitterArs takes apart Net Application numbers as dominated by a few sites like New York Times, Forbes, Wall Street Journal and InformationWeek - all arguably Windows only sites.  http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/02/mac-market-share.arsMay 16 05:13
twitter"  browser numbers being tracked are those from users who specifically visit those member sites, which include the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, and InformationWeek. If specific demographics of users—like, say, Linux users—don't tend to read those types of sites, they are going to be underrepresented, and similarly, other demographics may be overrepresented."May 16 05:13
twitterDuh, those sites are basically clueless and unfriendly.May 16 05:14
DaemonFCArs Techina also "leaked" Windows 7 pricing from an "unnamed source"May 16 05:15
DaemonFCthen apologized and retracted the articleMay 16 05:15
twitterWell, in this case, they have hit the nail on the head.May 16 05:15
DaemonFChint: It was a lot more expensive than VistaMay 16 05:16
DaemonFCso I hope they were wrongMay 16 05:16
twitterI hope they are rightMay 16 05:16
DaemonFCI don'tMay 16 05:16
DaemonFCit won't cause people to leave MSMay 16 05:16
DaemonFCit will cause them to pay moreMay 16 05:16
twitteryou are kidding, right?May 16 05:16
DaemonFCwhich they already will in any event since there's no 7 Home Basic in the US and CanadaMay 16 05:17
twitterhow many people do you know that paid $400 for Vista?May 16 05:17
DaemonFCso there's at least another $70 for an upgrade disc aloneMay 16 05:17
twitterI know zero people like that.May 16 05:17
DaemonFCheh, $300 maybeMay 16 05:17
twitterThey totally destroyed their retailers with their pricing.May 16 05:17
twitterYou know someone who paid $300 for Vista?May 16 05:17
DaemonFCyeah, except for online retailers with the cheap-o OEM versionMay 16 05:18
mvkfopwyou know anyone who bought vista not buying laptop?May 16 05:18
DaemonFCwith no support and only one activated computer, everMay 16 05:18
twitterI know someone who was suckered out of $400 for Office but that was only because they got such a good deal on a Vista Failure Laptop.May 16 05:18
DaemonFCI have two copies of VistaMay 16 05:18
DaemonFCbut I didn't buy either of themMay 16 05:19
DaemonFCyet they are licensed to meMay 16 05:19
DaemonFCstrange thatMay 16 05:19
twitterI had a copy of Vista.  It took 5 minutes to boot before I bought the machine.  The first thing I did when I got home was wipe.May 16 05:20
twitterThe machine was purchased at the CompUSA going out of business sale.May 16 05:20
twitterVista Failure.May 16 05:20
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twitterWindows 7 won't be a repeat of that because no one expects it to sell and they won't let themselves be channel stuffed.May 16 05:21
twitterIn the mean time GNU/Linux advances.May 16 05:21
mvkfopwchannel stuffed?May 16 05:21
mvkfopwaren't all of them already channel stuffed?May 16 05:21
twitterI'm not sure how many retail survivors are still stuffed with Vista.May 16 05:22
twitterThere were a lot of fire sales with $300 laptops.May 16 05:22
DaemonFCit takes about 30 -35 seconds to bootMay 16 05:22
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twitterYour copy might take that long.  The one I got from CompUSA took 5 minutes.May 16 05:23
twitterReally.  I was stunned.  "Wow" came to mind.May 16 05:23
twitterThe Wow starts when?May 16 05:23
DaemonFCyeah, because they packed it with trialwareMay 16 05:24
DaemonFCcause you probably got a shitty underpowered OEM system packed with trialwareMay 16 05:24
DaemonFC:)May 16 05:24
DaemonFCthey do that you knowMay 16 05:24
twitterDude, the system flies under Lenny.May 16 05:25
twitterlots of other people had the same experience with Vista out of the box, if they could even install it.May 16 05:25
twitterI attribute your good results to a lot of hard work and luck on your part.May 16 05:26
DaemonFCyeah, Debian works fine on some unbelievably low end systemsMay 16 05:26
twittereverything should work like that.May 16 05:26
twitter:)May 16 05:26
DaemonFCmeh, my first concern is always "Where's the drivers, where's the codecs, how do I make this work?"May 16 05:27
DaemonFCevery distribution has some unofficial repository for all thatMay 16 05:27
Omar87Hello everyone?May 16 05:27
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DaemonFCtwitter: I do like WinFLP much more on low end hardware than Vista or even XPMay 16 05:36
DaemonFCbut it's pretty hard to get that, legallyMay 16 05:37
twitterWindows is hard work all around.  Drivers, codecs, restrictions and all that.  Way too much work for little return.  Why do you bother?May 16 05:38
DaemonFCI dunno, mainly for gaming and such, and I always figure a way to get it for freeMay 16 05:39
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tessierIs Microsoft out of business yet?May 16 05:55
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twitterI don't know.  They had to borrow money.May 16 05:58
tessierThey did not have to borrow money.May 16 05:59
twitterThe claim to have $25 billion in the bank and don't really need the $3.75 billion they borrowed.May 16 05:59
tessierBut the money is available so cheaply it makes sense to do so.May 16 05:59
twitterbut they also claim that Vista is the most secure OS you can buy.May 16 05:59
twitterIt never makes sense to borrow money you don't need.May 16 05:59
tessierMy dad has taken equity out of his house on which he only has to pay a very small amount of interest and invested it in other places with higher returns.May 16 05:59
tessierSame deal here.May 16 05:59
tessierYes it does.May 16 05:59
twitterM$ is not supposed to be in the business of speculative investments.May 16 06:00
tessierSure they raeMay 16 06:00
tessierareMay 16 06:01
tessierThe invest in tons of thingsMay 16 06:01
twitterThey are supposed to use their supposed $25 billion wisely.May 16 06:01
twitternot borrow more to waste.May 16 06:01
twitterIf by "invest" you mean bribe, I agree.May 16 06:01
tessierThey have an AAA rating. The people loaning the money are pretty sure it isn't being wasted.May 16 06:01
twitterAIG had a AAA rating too.May 16 06:01
twitterWAMUMay 16 06:02
twitterENRONMay 16 06:02
mvkfopwwhat's aaa rating?May 16 06:02
twitterdo you think M$ will be here in 20 years?May 16 06:02
tessierProbably. IBM is still around.May 16 06:02
twitterIBM provides a useful service.May 16 06:02
twitterM$ does not.May 16 06:03
twitterI don't think M$ will be here in five years.May 16 06:03
twitterand I think there's a good chance they will sink in 2010.May 16 06:03
mvkfopwnot that fastMay 16 06:04
twitterwhy not?May 16 06:04
tessiertwitter: I really hope you are right. But I doubt that you are.May 16 06:04
twitterThink the Windows 7 bluff will buy them time?May 16 06:04
mvkfopwbecause they invest in plenty of things besides themselves or bribesMay 16 06:04
tessierAlthough I do think they are on a downward spiral. But it is a very gentle spiral.May 16 06:04
mvkfopwand yup, vista7 is buying them timeMay 16 06:05
twitterMost of their money comes from Windows and Office.   Office 2007 is a wreck and Vista killed Windows.May 16 06:05
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mvkfopwit's not only about users who can safely live with xpMay 16 06:05
twitterUsers and Vendors have already figured out that Windows 7 won't be any better than Vista.  It's game over.May 16 06:06
yuhongAnyway, not long ago I started a talk about MS's laptop gifting.May 16 06:06
yuhongtwitter: I would not go that far.May 16 06:06
twitterThey produced a dog after 6 years of development.  It's still a dog after 2 years of sales.  They fire people so it will never get better.  It's over.May 16 06:07
yuhongAnyway, not long ago I started a talk about MS's laptop gifting.May 16 06:07
mvkfopwfor m$ to live several m$-addicted countries are quite enoughMay 16 06:07
mvkfopwlike usa and part of europeMay 16 06:07
yuhongIt will never get better? That is questionable, IMO.May 16 06:07
twitterAll the benchmarks for Windows 7 are coming back like Vista.  How will it get any better as they fire people who could be fixing it?May 16 06:08
mvkfopwand it's enough to bribe government so they make sure that noone uses windows for freeMay 16 06:08
mvkfopwso m$ is hard-sinking titanicMay 16 06:08
yuhongWhat benchmarks?May 16 06:08
twitterAll of M$'s best customers are going broke.  Who's going to pay the windows tax when no one is buying computers?May 16 06:08
mvkfopwof course they will have to lower their ambitionsMay 16 06:09
twitterThey have no intentions of lowering their insane plans to rule the world through DRM and anti-competitive practices.May 16 06:09
mvkfopwlike 400$ for yet another m$ shitos is too muchMay 16 06:09
yuhonghttp://www.tuxradar.com/node/33May 16 06:10
twitterI would not use it if it was given to me.  It simply sucks.May 16 06:10
yuhongI don't think Vista or 7 sucks that much, in fact I am perfectly fine with my Vista laptop.May 16 06:11
yuhongIt is sometimes slow, but only if I run lots of applications.May 16 06:11
mvkfopwi didn't even buy laptop because there's vista preinstalledMay 16 06:11
yuhongIn contrast, I am perfectly fine with my Vista laptop.May 16 06:11
yuhongI am running Linux on another PC, however.May 16 06:12
yuhongIt is a lot older than the laptop though.May 16 06:12
yuhongIn fact, that Vista laptop is what I am typing this on.May 16 06:12
yuhongIt is sometimes slow, but only if I run lots of applications.May 16 06:12
yuhongI have 1.5 GB of RAM, BTW.May 16 06:13
twitteryeah, yeah, hong, you love M$May 16 06:13
yuhongWell, I do hate MS's business tactics.May 16 06:13
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mvkfopwand the only way you can vote for it is not buying itMay 16 06:13
yuhongAnd I do hate the MS-Novell deal.May 16 06:13
mvkfopwor in novell case - not playing with children of ms-novell marriageMay 16 06:14
yuhongIndeed, I don't pay much attension to, let alone use, OpenSUSE, Linspire, Xandros, or Mono.May 16 06:15
yuhongI really want to move on to MS's laptop gifting.May 16 06:16
mvkfopwand install linux there XDMay 16 06:16
yuhongI just powered on my Linux box.May 16 06:17
yuhongI don't hate Linux, I think it is a good OS in fact.May 16 06:18
yuhongSame for Mac OS X.May 16 06:18
twitterwho do you want to give a laptop too?May 16 06:18
mvkfopwhow can an os with drm enforced be good?May 16 06:18
twitterIs that what M$ wanted to go into debt over?May 16 06:19
yuhongNo, I don't think so.May 16 06:19
yuhongI don't have any DRM content.May 16 06:19
yuhongBut yes even without them there are parts of Vista related to DRM still active.May 16 06:19
twitterthe OS is the source of restrictions, not movies and musicMay 16 06:19
mvkfopwapple inside is even more evil.. t's good it doesn't spreadMay 16 06:20
yuhongProtected Processes, for example.May 16 06:20
twitterdid M$ gift you a GNU/Linux laptop.May 16 06:20
yuhongNo.May 16 06:20
twittertoo bad.May 16 06:20
yuhongI doubt MS would gift a Linux laptop to anybody.May 16 06:20
twitterdid they gift you Windows 7?May 16 06:20
mvkfopwimagine laptop coming with the restriction: "can be legally used only with windows"May 16 06:20
yuhongNo, in fact it is free right now so there is no point.May 16 06:21
twitterActually, M$ does make such restrictions on hardware given to libraries and schools.May 16 06:21
mvkfopwlolMay 16 06:21
mvkfopwwtfMay 16 06:21
twitterThey also extend it to all other hardware owned.May 16 06:21
yuhongBut I doubt any PC maker would make a PC that has a legal OS restriction.May 16 06:21
twitterThey say, "if you take our help, you can only use our software" and some people take it.May 16 06:22
mvkfopwso they will make that one, yuhongMay 16 06:22
twitterM$ gives nothing away.  Everything comes with strings.May 16 06:22
twitterNothing is owned by the customer.May 16 06:22
mvkfopwcustomer doesn't own himself XDMay 16 06:23
yuhongAnyway, the key thing about my previous chat was that the key thing was the condition of the gifts.May 16 06:23
twitteryou misspelled bribe!May 16 06:23
yuhongIf the condition of the gift was that the review be positive, that is bribery.May 16 06:23
twitter:-DMay 16 06:23
twitterBribery is when you give something to influence the receiver.May 16 06:24
yuhongYep.May 16 06:24
twitterThe conditions do not have to be explicit.May 16 06:24
twitterLike volunteering bogus cancer research to corrupt a conference panel.May 16 06:24
yuhongNo.May 16 06:24
twitterYou have M$ ethics.May 16 06:25
mvkfopwyuhong, do you sign anything when you receive lappy?May 16 06:25
twitterBribery is about improper influence.May 16 06:25
yuhongNo, and I never received one from MS.May 16 06:25
yuhongBut I think the key condition is if the gift requires a positive review.May 16 06:26
mvkfopwso you can as well tell them f off and do whatever with itMay 16 06:26
yuhongIf the answer is yes, then it is bribery.May 16 06:26
twitterRestaurant reviewers, for example, are supposed to be anonymous so they are treated like any other customer.  Anything else brings a false review.May 16 06:26
twitterWhen you find an incestuous relationship between reviewer and their subject, it is right to reject the review as unduly influenced.May 16 06:27
yuhongI do have a Windows 7 beta VM on my Vista laptop.May 16 06:27
yuhongYep.May 16 06:27
twitterwhy?May 16 06:28
yuhongBecause that makes the review suspicious.May 16 06:28
twitteroh, yes. that's the point.May 16 06:28
yuhongI never received a gift from MS.May 16 06:28
mvkfopwbut you want itMay 16 06:28
twittera reviewer that's been given an expensive gift is suspect.May 16 06:28
yuhongI don't, But the really key thing is if the gift requires a positive review.May 16 06:29
twitterWell, you have your criteria for trust.  I have mine, but I think you just agreed that mine was right.May 16 06:29
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schestowitztessier: Microsoft's rating came from firms like Moody's, who were accused of corruption. Some of them /sell/ ratings.May 16 06:30
twitterGood Morning, Roy.May 16 06:30
yuhongOr if they can write a negative review and still keep the gift.May 16 06:30
yuhongIf not, the review is definitely suspect.May 16 06:30
yuhongI don't want any gifts from MS.May 16 06:31
twitterhow about a regular pay check from M$, yuhong?May 16 06:32
schestowitzLet's try to get the site online ASAP. If it's down for too long, we can get delisted from Google.May 16 06:32
twitterwhat can be done, Roy?May 16 06:33
yuhongNo, I don't want that either, and I think a job at google would be better.May 16 06:33
twitterEveryone I know is sleeping right now.May 16 06:33
schestowitzI can pay extra for dedicated if necessary, but we might need to raise fundsMay 16 06:34
schestowitzI don't know what to doMay 16 06:34
schestowitzThe host is being greedyMay 16 06:34
twitterHow much do they want?May 16 06:35
yuhongBTW, Windows 7 RC right now is free for download, so anyone can try 7 for themselves.May 16 06:35
schestowitztwitter: I don't know how much they chargeMay 16 06:36
schestowitzBut I might move it over to my host here, which would cost moreMay 16 06:36
twitteradvertising does not pay for it all?May 16 06:36
schestowitzYes, yuhong seems a bit of a shillMay 16 06:37
schestowitzFrom SeattleMay 16 06:37
twittermy neighbor, the shillMay 16 06:37
yuhongWell, did you look at my recent comments?May 16 06:37
yuhonghttp://scobleizer.com/2008/08/24/win7team/May 16 06:37
twitterthey are like most of your comments, yuhong.  It's how I know you are you not someone using your nick.May 16 06:38
yuhongEx, when I talked about Larry Ellison's dumpster diving to expose MS's front groups.May 16 06:39
twitterLOL.  Flat teams.May 16 06:40
yuhongI know, but what I really want to focus on is the PR part.May 16 06:40
yuhongFrom Shoreline actually.May 16 06:41
yuhongBTW, I am right now a student.May 16 06:41
twitterAs the icy waters of the Atlantic flood the bulkheads, all the passengers left without lifeboats have collected on one floor of the Titanic.May 16 06:41
twitterM$ advises their liars to say they are students.May 16 06:41
yuhongI did not know this, thanks.May 16 06:42
twitterWhere structure and order were once important, chaos now reigns.May 16 06:42
yuhongSame at Google, I think.May 16 06:42
yuhongBut that is IMO off-topic.May 16 06:42
twitterThe passengers, shrieking from the cold water's sting run much faster than they used to.May 16 06:43
twitter" the management lately and are less likely to play political games."  Blog posts now result in an immediate toss overboard, no questions asked.May 16 06:44
yuhongWhat do you mean by this.May 16 06:44
twitterI'm making a joke that I'm sure has a strong resemblance to reality at M$.May 16 06:45
twitterThey have fired people for posting pictures of Macs on campus.May 16 06:45
twitterAs they fire 5,000 employees, I'm sure just having an iPod will get you chucked.May 16 06:46
tessierschestowitz: I can host for youMay 16 06:46
tessierschestowitz: I can give you an account on my server right now if you need.May 16 06:47
schestowitztessier: thanks!May 16 06:47
schestowitzI will need to see what Shane saysMay 16 06:47
twitteris there any distributed hosting software out there, besides botnet stuff?May 16 06:48
schestowitzI just try to get it back up ASAPMay 16 06:48
schestowitzBut Shane pays the bills with the AdSense moneyMay 16 06:49
twittersomething that gets around ISP hosts and is run by a community?May 16 06:49
yuhongHopefully after the server is back on, the article schestowitz promised about Oracle's dumpster diving will be posted.May 16 06:49
twitterThere should be plenty of money.May 16 06:49
schestowitzSo he's hesitant to cave in to the host's pressure and pay more a lot more than we get from ads.May 16 06:49
schestowitzyuhong: yes, thanksMay 16 06:49
yuhongWhat do you think about that one?May 16 06:49
schestowitztwitter: not sure about the plenty of money partMay 16 06:49
twitterI think M$ hates Oracle.May 16 06:49
yuhongYes, it does.May 16 06:50
twitterWould love to smear everyone else in computing.May 16 06:50
yuhongYep, also.May 16 06:50
schestowitzyuhong/twitter: let's not worry about new posts yet. Some of my posts on Microsoft will refer to news from last weekMay 16 06:51
twitterSo people like you can feed nice stories.  That's OK, as long as the facts back up what you say, but I have deep suspicions about people who push Windows.May 16 06:51
schestowitzBut I really don't want to be delisted from SEsMay 16 06:51
schestowitzThe whole thing boils down to greedy host and moneyMay 16 06:51
schestowitzNot DDOS apparentlyMay 16 06:51
*Omar87 (n=omar@86.108.23.178) has left #boycottnovellMay 16 06:51
schestowitzJust a lot of traffic on ThursdayMay 16 06:51
twitterI'm surprised the site has not been DDOS'd.May 16 06:52
schestowitz44k pages in 21 hours, excluding SEs (awstats definition)May 16 06:52
schestowitztwitter: my personal site wasMay 16 06:52
yuhongAnd as Windows 7 RC is free for download, anyone can check the facts about it.May 16 06:52
schestowitzSpammers though, not malicious targettted attackMay 16 06:52
twitterThe other part of the problem, Roy, is that Shane does everything for you.  You need details to do these things yourself.May 16 06:53
schestowitzI am very uncomfortable with the site being down. Never happened to me with /ANY/ site for such a duration.May 16 06:53
schestowitzAnd this time it's voluntary (for the host) because they want more moneyMay 16 06:53
twitterIt's probably time lay aside writing and find out about hosting.May 16 06:53
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schestowitztwitter: I know, I knowMay 16 06:54
schestowitzShane wants the burden offMay 16 06:54
twitterIs there someone at the FSF or some other trusted organization that can help you?May 16 06:54
schestowitzHe wants me to put it on my hostMay 16 06:54
schestowitztwitter: maybeMay 16 06:54
twitterYou know, spend a day or two telling you what you need to know?May 16 06:54
schestowitzI have one person who would host it for free. But let's get the site up in the interim, even if we need to pay more for hosting (I'd cover the cost).May 16 06:56
yuhongOn Apple and Mac OS X, I don't think it is a bad OS, but I don't think it is any better than Windows in terms of freedom.May 16 06:56
schestowitzFSF or ibiblio I haven't asked yet....May 16 06:57
yuhongTwitter: Why do you have deep suspicions about people who push Windows?May 16 06:58
mvkfopwpeople that push anything are suspiciousMay 16 06:59
yuhongYes, but why people who push Windows are treated as more suspicious than those who push Linux?May 16 06:59
yuhongOr at least it seems to me.May 16 06:59
mvkfopwbecause those who push linux are for freedomMay 16 06:59
mvkfopwand those who push windows try to enslave ya XDMay 16 07:00
mvkfopwjust as easy as thatMay 16 07:00
mvkfopwdepends on what you chooseMay 16 07:00
yuhongI know.May 16 07:00
yuhongI never critized Linux, I think it is a great OS and run it on one older PC.May 16 07:01
yuhongI was going to say I am neutral, but I am going to let you decide.May 16 07:01
mvkfopwpeople are neutral only when they are dead or nonexistentMay 16 07:02
mvkfopwin all the other cases they are shifted towards somethingMay 16 07:02
mvkfopwor biased is better wordMay 16 07:02
yuhongI mean in the OS advocacy wars, no one is completely neutral.May 16 07:02
mvkfopwof courseMay 16 07:03
mvkfopwand they don't have to beMay 16 07:03
yuhongAgreed.May 16 07:03
yuhongMac OS X isn't bad either, but Linux provides more freedom.May 16 07:05
twitterOK Roy, I've sent out a distress signal for you.May 16 07:06
mvkfopwwith maco$x you have even less freedom that with windowsMay 16 07:06
mvkfopwboth users and developersMay 16 07:06
twitteryou will receive a copyMay 16 07:06
yuhongWell, I know about Apple's hardware lock-in.May 16 07:07
yuhongIt dates from long back, BTW.May 16 07:07
yuhongI also know about iPhone's restrictions.May 16 07:08
yuhongIn fact I think both are well-known.May 16 07:08
yuhongI don't think anyone else used "maco$x" to describe Mac OS X, though.May 16 07:09
yuhongI am not going to receive a copy of Mac OS X either.May 16 07:09
yuhongWhat do you mean by distress?May 16 07:09
schestowitztwitter: thanks for the mailMay 16 07:10
yuhongWhat mail?May 16 07:10
yuhongSorry, I misinterpreted  "you will receive a copy", sorry.May 16 07:11
yuhongI mean in the OS advocacy wars. No one is completely neutral against everything, I mean.May 16 07:12
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mvkfopwyuhong, for neutrals there's no differenceMay 16 07:13
mvkfopwthey don't use either of themMay 16 07:13
twitterYou are welcome, Roy.  I just sent another one.May 16 07:14
twitterGood luck with it and let me know if I can help further.May 16 07:14
oiaohmLinux people get hammered for not being truthful about defects in the OS as well.  Windows pushers normally don't want to be truthful about problems.May 16 07:18
oiaohmWhen windows pushers are truthful they get attacked too by people from the MS side out to destroy them.May 16 07:19
oiaohmSpin is Spin no matter who is doing it.May 16 07:19
oiaohmmvkfopw: neutrals have the nasty problem of being attacked from all sides when they complain about different defects.May 16 07:21
mvkfopwthere are no neutralsMay 16 07:22
mvkfopwonly people that have not come to a decisionMay 16 07:22
oiaohmThis is the problem there are always neutrals.   Who look at items on techical mert segment by segment.   They don't care about Pro Linux Pro BSD Pro Mac Pro Windows Pro Solarias.  They care what tech is best for the job.May 16 07:25
schestowitztwitter: I think we already have a voluntary host. I'm waiting to hear from Shane.May 16 07:31
oiaohmSee you are still having fun schestowitzMay 16 07:32
schestowitzYesMay 16 07:32
schestowitzProgress thoughMay 16 07:32
schestowitzShort storyMay 16 07:33
schestowitzNo apprarent DDOSMay 16 07:33
schestowitzJust lots of trafficMay 16 07:33
schestowitzBut I don't understand why it crippled the server for so longMay 16 07:33
schestowitzSo host wants to sell dedicatedMay 16 07:33
schestowitzShane suggested to split the site into two machines, but I don't think the host will love the ideaMay 16 07:34
schestowitzSo we're back at the point of needing more cpacityMay 16 07:34
oiaohmSo what I feared the last time you hit limit has happened.May 16 07:34
schestowitztessier has hosting he can offer and Shane can pass all the ad revenue to himMay 16 07:35
schestowitzoiaohm: maybeMay 16 07:35
twitterWell, I hope you get options.  If Shane wants out, let him go.  A capacity problem should solve itself with reasonable revenue through advertising.  Give that host a call and see what they can do for you.May 16 07:35
schestowitzBut it was just too suddenMay 16 07:35
oiaohmSite has got more advertisement this year than any other.May 16 07:35
twitterOther sites solve these problems, so can BN.May 16 07:35
oiaohmGrowth would be above predictions.May 16 07:36
schestowitzThis is very troubling. I have many posts comingMay 16 07:36
schestowitzI don't even know when to move and how. Shane wants to try to stay on sharedMay 16 07:37
twitterThe posts are all good, but you need a stable foundation.May 16 07:37
schestowitzWe've lobbied them for a long timf ro thisMay 16 07:37
schestowitzEven when traffic was half that (2 months ago)May 16 07:37
twitterIt's all your writing for the most part.  Please yourself.May 16 07:37
schestowitzAnd this was our last chance so to speakMay 16 07:37
oiaohmShared has it problems.May 16 07:37
oiaohmIf the other people sharing with you has high loads at the same times as you big problems.May 16 07:38
schestowitzIf we move to dedicated I would probably move it over to mine because of the costMay 16 07:38
schestowitzBut it would cost me a fortuneMay 16 07:38
schestowitzI'm no small businessMay 16 07:38
oiaohmIts time to talk to the foundations out there.May 16 07:39
twitteryou could be with all the traffic you getMay 16 07:39
oiaohmOr set up one.May 16 07:39
twitteryou need information, Roy.  Other people have it and can help you out.May 16 07:39
schestowitzI have it thanksMay 16 07:40
schestowitzNo need for E-mailing, twitter May 16 07:40
twitterYes there was.  I wanted to get other people involved.May 16 07:40
schestowitztessier can provide hostingMay 16 07:41
twitterI've sent you a total of two emails, both copies of other people I've been corresponding with.May 16 07:41
schestowitzWe'd pay him all the ads money for itMay 16 07:41
twitterIf you have gotten more than that from me, someone is playing games.May 16 07:41
twittercheck headers.May 16 07:41
twitterand let me know.May 16 07:41
schestowitzI'm really wary right now. Not because regs have to wait aside but because of SEsMay 16 07:42
schestowitzI want to get it back ASAPMay 16 07:42
twitterthat's understandable.May 16 07:42
schestowitzWhich is why Shane and I pressure the host to stretch a bitMay 16 07:42
schestowitzScroll up a bitMay 16 07:42
schestowitzI paste some stuff hereMay 16 07:42
schestowitzBasically, they promise half a tera of b/w.May 16 07:42
schestowitzBut they don't want to deliver at just over .0..2May 16 07:43
schestowitzThey say it's "FAR too much"May 16 07:43
schestowitzExcuse ME?May 16 07:43
schestowitz"You say you can deliver X, now it's too much?"May 16 07:43
schestowitzNot a unique problem BTW.May 16 07:43
oiaohmIts common.May 16 07:44
oiaohmHalf a tera offer is lucky to be 0.15 or a tera.May 16 07:44
schestowitzhttp://www.catalyst2.com/dedicated-hostingMay 16 07:44
schestowitzoiaohm: really?May 16 07:44
schestowitzCrooksMay 16 07:44
schestowitzoiaohm: how to move data and DBs (home dirs also) between hosts?May 16 07:45
schestowitzCan hosts be asked to do it themselves?May 16 07:45
twitterI think you have to ask the hosts about these details and I think that you need to know the answers.May 16 07:45
schestowitz"'Price  £199/month  £299/month  £399/month"May 16 07:46
oiaohmFrom shared to decated inside the same firm they normally can do it themselves.May 16 07:46
schestowitzWTF? Ads pay only about $50/month, IIRCMay 16 07:46
twitterAsk the host how much ads really generate.May 16 07:46
oiaohmIts simple copy.May 16 07:46
schestowitztwitter: not the host, ShaneMay 16 07:46
twitterand take your tremendous body of work to the one that will best service you.May 16 07:47
schestowitzFor  a moment there I though he paid more for SHARED hosting than the ads paidMay 16 07:47
oiaohmProblem why 0.5 tera ends up at 0.15 is shared hosting.May 16 07:47
schestowitztessier can provide hostingMay 16 07:47
oiaohmIts basically over allocated.May 16 07:47
twitterah, that's nice.May 16 07:47
oiaohmIf only 1 or 2 on the server wants it they can get.May 16 07:48
oiaohmWhen more than 1 or 2 wants it things go south.May 16 07:48
twitterbut I think you should be in contact with the other service mentioned.May 16 07:48
schestowitzYEah.May 16 07:48
oiaohmschestowitz: when crossing providers its back everything up normally.May 16 07:49
schestowitzHow to move data?May 16 07:49
schestowitzCDs?May 16 07:49
schestowitzFTP?May 16 07:49
oiaohmDepends on what your current host and the host you are moving to offers and how much you need to move.May 16 07:50
schestowitzAbout 4GB+DBsMay 16 07:50
schestowitz2 DBsMay 16 07:50
oiaohmSome hosts offer dvd backup and over night transport.May 16 07:50
oiaohmSome offer syncing off server to there server.May 16 07:51
schestowitzping tessier are you there?May 16 07:51
oiaohmSorry there is no like hard and fast rule here schestowitzMay 16 07:51
oiaohmReason why with cloud talk groups were trying to make a hosting standard.May 16 07:52
schestowitzIf we move, then it's good to ensure we can deliver afterwards. I'd pay him whatever we haveMay 16 07:52
schestowitzMaybe we'll need to raise money from readersMay 16 07:52
schestowitzWait, I'll phone himMay 16 07:53
oiaohmRemember that rose foundation we stumbled accross being linked to MS.   They were a non for profit host.May 16 07:53
oiaohmOk not exactly linked to MS.  Doing stuff you would suspect linked to MS.May 16 07:54
oiaohmI think you are also to the point of needing 2 hosting locations schestowitz.May 16 07:54
oiaohmIf one decides to not work have plan b.May 16 07:55
schestowitzI see..May 16 07:55
schestowitzBut none of this is cheapMay 16 07:55
tessierschestowitz: You rang?May 16 07:55
schestowitzYesMay 16 07:55
schestowitzMaybe we can speak hereMay 16 07:55
tessierWhatever works for youMay 16 07:56
schestowitzIs it OK to host with bandwidth of like 200gb/month?May 16 07:56
schestowitzWe'd pay you what's requiredMay 16 07:56
tessierschestowitz: Sure, that's no problem. What's the average megabit/s on that?May 16 07:56
schestowitzI don't think Shane is willing to do dedicated with DimeHostMay 16 07:56
schestowitzAnd trying to make workarounds like splitting servers won't make the host too convincedMay 16 07:57
schestowitztessier: like over +5gb per dayMay 16 07:57
tessierNo problem.May 16 07:57
schestowitzMySQL/PHP stuff mostlyMay 16 07:57
schestowitzPHP4 IIRCMay 16 07:58
schestowitz2 DBs, home dir is abut 4gbMay 16 07:58
tessierI have a server in a good colo. We don't have any bandwidth caps or anything. We would pay extra if it went over something like 5mb/s at 95th percentile or whatever but I don't think that will be an issue. 5gb isn't much.May 16 07:58
schestowitzWowMay 16 07:59
twitterOne last email, Roy.May 16 07:59
schestowitzI wonder if the host can quickly mail you all the dataMay 16 07:59
schestowitztwitter: OKMay 16 08:00
tessierRight now the server is slightly crippled in that if you need to get going right now I can't easily turn up your own virtual machine. But I can give you a user account on my currently running web server and get you going if that will work.May 16 08:00
schestowitztwitter: Thanks.May 16 08:01
twitterno problem.May 16 08:01
schestowitztwitter: you could make this public tooMay 16 08:01
tessier4g of disk is nothing as well. I think I'm running PHP5 or whatever centos 5.2 currently ships with. Think it is backwards compatible with your stuff?May 16 08:01
schestowitzI'm not sureMay 16 08:01
schestowitzWordPress wants php4 AFAIKMay 16 08:01
tessierI can always back-rev it to php4 then.May 16 08:02
schestowitzLet me check if it chnagedMay 16 08:02
twitterOK, but I'm sleepy now.  Take your time.  :)May 16 08:02
tessierI don't have anything else that needs php.May 16 08:02
schestowitz"Requirements: PHP 4.3 or higher, MySQL 4.0 or higher, Apache or Litespeed recommended."May 16 08:02
schestowitzhttp://wordpress.org/hosting/May 16 08:02
schestowitzSo maybe it can take php5 nowMay 16 08:02
tessier"or higher" so I bet you are set.May 16 08:02
schestowitz:-)May 16 08:03
schestowitztessier: if you were to set up an FTP account...May 16 08:03
tessierCan you do scp?May 16 08:03
schestowitzI mean, after speaking to the host and all to see if I can get access to thatMay 16 08:03
twittersftp, I'm sureMay 16 08:03
schestowitztessier: yesMay 16 08:03
tessierokMay 16 08:03
tessierWhat username?May 16 08:04
schestowitzAny cpanel?May 16 08:04
schestowitztessier: boycottnMay 16 08:04
schestowitzTo keep it consistentMay 16 08:04
tessierI don't have any cpanel.May 16 08:04
schestowitz/home/boycottnMay 16 08:04
schestowitztessier: that's OKMay 16 08:04
schestowitzAny stats packages? (not so important)May 16 08:04
tessierWe can install whatever stats package you needMay 16 08:05
schestowitz:-DMay 16 08:05
schestowitzOK, let me check if there's something I missed May 16 08:05
schestowitzOK, I'll mail them :-)May 16 08:07
schestowitz"One of our readers whom I've know for years will set up an account for us (virtually no limits). Can you ask the host for access to FTP and the DBs so that I can fetch them and transfer?"May 16 08:07
tessierDo you need me to turn on an ftp server or can you scp itMay 16 08:08
tessier?May 16 08:08
schestowitzThanks. Probably not yetMay 16 08:08
schestowitzI want to see what the host saysMay 16 08:09
tessierOk. Copy in all of your php, html, a mysqldump or whatever. Also copy over the apache config so I can copy that into my own apache config. I'm creating you a mysql account now...will put the details in a file called mysql.txt in your homedir...May 16 08:11
schestowitzOK, I'm inMay 16 08:12
schestowitzChanged passwMay 16 08:12
schestowitz:-)May 16 08:12
schestowitzAre apache configs in the home directory too? Because I think nowMay 16 08:12
tessierThe apache configs are currently in /etc/httpdMay 16 08:14
tessierI will have to put the correct config in place for youMay 16 08:14
schestowitztessier: here's a planMay 16 08:15
schestowitzI can pass the home dir as of some time before downtimeMay 16 08:15
schestowitzThen put the DBs tooMay 16 08:15
tessierok...May 16 08:15
schestowitzUntil I get the most up-to-date from hostMay 16 08:15
schestowitzThen we can testMay 16 08:15
schestowitzChange DNS and put the up-to-date fileMay 16 08:15
schestowitz*sMay 16 08:15
tessiersounds goodMay 16 08:16
schestowitzI'm in on fish://May 16 08:16
schestowitzKDE :-)May 16 08:16
tessierDo you happen to know the name of the mysql database your app will be expecting?May 16 08:16
schestowitzDB name?May 16 08:17
schestowitzboycott_wrdpr1 IIRCMay 16 08:17
tessierokMay 16 08:17
schestowitzNot sure yetMay 16 08:17
schestowitzLet me throw in the DBsMay 16 08:17
tessierI can change it later if necessary....I'm just setting up mysql for you now.May 16 08:17
schestowitzCopyingMay 16 08:18
schestowitz:-DMay 16 08:19
schestowitzI'm gratefulMay 16 08:19
*schestowitz looks at mysql.txtMay 16 08:19
tessierOk, your mysql connection details are in thereMay 16 08:20
tessierI can help you configure wordpress to use the new mysql info if necessary once you have everything copied over and extracted or whateverMay 16 08:21
schestowitzthe db name is wrdp1May 16 08:21
tessierokMay 16 08:21
schestowitzSo I got it wrong from memoryMay 16 08:21
schestowitzNext I'd put the home dir inMay 16 08:22
schestowitzWithout the big files.May 16 08:22
schestowitzI'll give you my wordpress credentialsMay 16 08:22
schestowitzSo that you can see it :-)May 16 08:22
tessierHow long do you think the copy will take?May 16 08:23
schestowitzI'll trim it downMay 16 08:23
schestowitzI need to uncompress the full db, then I'll remove the large chunks of vids and imagesMay 16 08:24
tessierWe have tons of disk space so don't worry about that. Maybe just copy over the important stuff for now just to get the site back up and running and then copy over the big stuff laterMay 16 08:24
schestowitzThanks.May 16 08:26
schestowitzThe DBs are almost thereMay 16 08:31
schestowitz40mb compressed.May 16 08:31
schestowitzCopying my home dir from externel HDD to local at 20MB/secMay 16 08:32
schestowitzShould I upload the zipped home dir?May 16 08:32
schestowitzMight be faster to umcompress on the server?May 16 08:32
tessieryes, upload it compressedMay 16 08:32
schestowitz:-)May 16 08:32
schestowitzOK, to recap: So we have a new account now. We are passing backups of the site there (about 2 days old), then test it. If all OK, then we can pass the up-to-date data from the old host and change DNS.May 16 08:34
*schestowitz transferring home dir, database are both there (complete)May 16 08:37
schestowitz*basesMay 16 08:37
tessierOk, go ahead and uncompress and let me know when everything is in there and where it should beMay 16 08:37
tessierAlso bring over a copy of the relevant apache config if you have it so I can just copy it into mine. I've never run wordpress before myself so it would be useful if I could just drop the old config in.May 16 08:38
schestowitz[boycottn@mail ~]$ ls -laMay 16 08:39
schestowitztotal 231876May 16 08:39
schestowitzdrwx------  2 boycottn boycottn      4096 May 16 00:52 .May 16 08:39
schestowitzdrwxr-xr-x 26 root     root          4096 May 16 00:18 ..May 16 08:39
schestowitz-rw-r--r--  1 boycottn boycottn        24 May 16 00:18 .bash_logoutMay 16 08:39
schestowitz-rw-r--r--  1 boycottn boycottn       176 May 16 00:18 .bash_profileMay 16 08:39
schestowitz-rw-r--r--  1 boycottn boycottn       124 May 16 00:18 .bashrcMay 16 08:39
schestowitz-rw-r--r--  1 boycottn boycottn       515 May 16 00:18 .emacsMay 16 08:39
schestowitz-r--r--r--  1 boycottn boycottn      8434 May 16 00:28 .fishsrv.plMay 16 08:39
schestowitz-rw-rw-r--  1 boycottn boycottn   8159232 May 16 00:52 backup-boycottnovell.com-5-13-2009.tar.gzMay 16 08:39
schestowitz-rw-r--r--  1 boycottn boycottn       247 May 16 00:36 mysql.txtMay 16 08:39
schestowitz-rw-r--r--  1 boycottn boycottn  11721771 May 16 00:33 wiki.sqlMay 16 08:39
schestowitz-rw-r--r--  1 boycottn boycottn 217271459 May 16 00:50 wrdp1.sqlMay 16 08:39
schestowitz[boycottn@mail ~]$             May 16 08:39
schestowitzI've uncompressed the DBsMay 16 08:39
schestowitzStill passing the home dir (backup-boycottnovell.com-5-13-2009.tar.gz)May 16 08:39
schestowitzWhat we need now from DimeHost is access to cpanel to download the latest DBs and home dir.May 16 08:42
tessierYou can't ssh in and get that?May 16 08:42
*DaemonFC (n=DaemonFC@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 08:53
schestowitztessier: nope :-)May 16 08:53
schestowitzThat's why the old host kid of suckedMay 16 08:54
DaemonFCwell, the SP2 integrated ISO worksMay 16 08:54
DaemonFC:PMay 16 08:54
schestowitz73mb/2700mb of home directory done. tessier: I suppose you get sleep soon?May 16 09:06
tessierhmm...I guess so since it seems it will be a while before we can put everything back together for the site.May 16 09:07
schestowitz[boycottn@mail ~]$ uname -aMay 16 09:07
schestowitzLinux mail.copilotco.com 2.6.18-92.1.22.el5xen #1 SMP Tue Dec 16 12:26:32 EST 2008 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/LinuxMay 16 09:07
schestowitzI could pass a subsetMay 16 09:08
schestowitzJust to test the CMSsMay 16 09:08
tessiera subset?May 16 09:08
schestowitzI'll do both at the same timeMay 16 09:08
schestowitztessier: most of that file size of media filesMay 16 09:08
schestowitzlike the freely-distributed images I put in the siteMay 16 09:09
schestowitzVery auxiliary, so not needed for setting things upMay 16 09:09
*ziggyfish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 09:12
DaemonFChmmm, Microsoft has a blog writing tool that's compatible with WordpressMay 16 09:13
DaemonFCand it doesn't suckMay 16 09:13
*DaemonFC scratches his chinMay 16 09:13
ziggyfishDaemonFC, what's the catchMay 16 09:13
DaemonFCsomething is missing hereMay 16 09:13
ziggyfishdoes it do it properly?May 16 09:13
ziggyfishdoes it only work on windows?May 16 09:14
ziggyfishwith Microsoft there is always a catchMay 16 09:14
schestowitztessier: give me a few minutes and I'll have the CMSs upMay 16 09:17
DaemonFChttp://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2887/39525593.pngMay 16 09:17
ziggyfishschestowitz, thank you ;)May 16 09:17
DaemonFCscreenshotMay 16 09:17
schestowitzThe media will arrive 'in the background' (takes longer)May 16 09:17
schestowitzziggyfish: we're probably migratingMay 16 09:17
schestowitztessier to become the God of BNMay 16 09:18
DaemonFCit's good, but yeah, of course it only runs on WindowsMay 16 09:18
ziggyfishDaemonFC, fedora?May 16 09:18
schestowitzDaemonFC: just more added value to Windows, I guess. I personally just use Kate to write Wordpress postsMay 16 09:18
schestowitzRaw HTML with strong toolsetsMay 16 09:19
DaemonFCnothing from Windows Live will install on XP x64May 16 09:19
DaemonFCunless you unpack it and manually install the files yourselfMay 16 09:19
mvkfopwlike those who use xpx64 use windows live...May 16 09:19
DaemonFCuggghMay 16 09:19
DaemonFCplenty doMay 16 09:19
*ziggyfish thinks DaemonFC is a windows guyMay 16 09:20
DaemonFCXP Pro X64 is the only non-Vista way to get a copy of Windows that will recognize all your RAMMay 16 09:20
DaemonFCthat's basically its only drawMay 16 09:20
DaemonFCschestowitz: Makes me wonder why they don't make Internet Explorer perform decentlyMay 16 09:23
DaemonFCwith the money and the number of people they have, it could be doneMay 16 09:23
ziggyfishDaemonFC, IE is Mircosoft's way of trying to control the internetMay 16 09:24
schestowitzAnd IISMay 16 09:24
DaemonFCthey hard code settings into IIS on Vista Business to make it only useful for small local network serversMay 16 09:25
ziggyfishgod only knows what IIS is meant to be, is it meant to be a web server?May 16 09:25
DaemonFCI think it defaults to 20 max connectionsMay 16 09:25
DaemonFCcan you can increase it up to 60May 16 09:25
DaemonFCbeyond that you're patching Windows system filesMay 16 09:26
ziggyfishDaemonFC, better than XP, it only support 5 connectionsMay 16 09:26
DaemonFC*you canMay 16 09:26
DaemonFChehMay 16 09:26
DaemonFCXP Pro X64 and Vista Business have higher max connections than XP ProMay 16 09:27
DaemonFCof course XP Pro X64 is a much better OS than normal XPMay 16 09:27
ziggyfishDaemonFC, I prefer Linux's limitMay 16 09:27
DaemonFChehMay 16 09:27
DaemonFCthere was a guy I knew that was always like "My Mac is blah blah blah and PCs are epic fail, lalala"May 16 09:28
DaemonFCthen he ended up using my PC one day and ended up with some backwards complimentsMay 16 09:29
DaemonFCso I suppose it is just all how it's marketedMay 16 09:29
ziggyfishDaemonFC, was he on drug or stoned at the time?May 16 09:30
DaemonFCI've used both, given the choice I would definitely not pick the MacMay 16 09:31
DaemonFCnot only have I used Intel and PPC OS X MacsMay 16 09:31
DaemonFCbut OS 9 PPC and OS 8 and 7.5 MotorolaMay 16 09:32
DaemonFCthey're so fucking incoherant they make Windows look organizedMay 16 09:32
DaemonFCseriously, I still have software I bought for Windows 95 and NT 4 that works with Vista x64May 16 09:32
ziggyfishDaemonFC, as long it can run Linux, I don't care what platform I use, heck the ARM processors are looking goodMay 16 09:33
DaemonFCthe Mac would have switched the entire OS and ported between three different CPUsMay 16 09:33
DaemonFCin that timeMay 16 09:33
trmancohttp://identi.ca/notice/4293717May 16 09:33
DaemonFCyeah, you say thatMay 16 09:33
DaemonFCbut different architectures on Linux are not well supported compared to x86May 16 09:34
ziggyfishDaemonFC, I still have software that is 30 years oldMay 16 09:34
DaemonFCthe closest you may find is PPC just cause of all the old MacsMay 16 09:34
DaemonFCand even there there's no Flash or anythingMay 16 09:34
DaemonFCmuch less running anything in WineMay 16 09:34
mvkfopwhehe, wolframalpha is outMay 16 09:35
DaemonFCX86 is the standard jsut because between Microsoft and Apple they control over 98% of the PC marketMay 16 09:35
ziggyfishmvkfopw, never heard of it url =???May 16 09:35
mvkfopwwolframalpha.comMay 16 09:36
DaemonFCMicrosoft and Apple are basically the same thingMay 16 09:36
DaemonFCif Apple ever gets as big as Microsoft, they'll be doing the exact same customer abuseMay 16 09:36
ziggyfishDaemonFC, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaMay 16 09:36
DaemonFCthey already get away with that in certain marketsMay 16 09:36
DaemonFClike the vendor lock in for the iphoneMay 16 09:37
ziggyfishmvkfopw, what is it?May 16 09:37
DaemonFCcausing it to remain overpriced and then you have people selling their souls to AT&TMay 16 09:37
mvkfopwread thereMay 16 09:37
mvkfopwto the right of it's titleMay 16 09:37
DaemonFCApple also has the same sentiment towards P2P and BitTorrent as MicrosoftMay 16 09:37
DaemonFCthey refused to host a bittorrent app because it's "mainly used for piracy"May 16 09:38
DaemonFCso I think Apple will probably be the next Microsoft at this paceMay 16 09:38
DaemonFCthey're gaining ground faster than anyone elseMay 16 09:39
ziggyfishmvkfopw, it's broken. Error message = Wolfram|Alpha has temporarily exceeded it's current maximum test loadMay 16 09:39
mvkfopwit works for meMay 16 09:39
DaemonFCyou notice that as Apple gains market share they put out better models at lower pricesMay 16 09:40
mvkfopwziggyfish, it's computational knowledge engineMay 16 09:41
ziggyfishoh, okMay 16 09:41
ziggyfishniceMay 16 09:42
ziggyfishnice I'm only 8312 days youngMay 16 09:45
mvkfopwand whatMay 16 09:46
mvkfopwschool student can use thatMay 16 09:46
ziggyfishlolMay 16 09:46
mvkfopw:)) so you found out how old you are there XDMay 16 09:47
ziggyfishI wonder if it can do any complex equations?May 16 09:48
schestowitztessier: uploading home dirt files nowMay 16 09:48
mvkfopwvisit mathematics link there, everything that it can do is listed :)May 16 09:49
ziggyfishmvkfopw, I like the way it thinks ;)May 16 09:57
trmancohomer is backMay 16 10:06
schestowitzYesMay 16 10:06
schestowitzNot to IRC, yetMay 16 10:06
trmancololMay 16 10:07
trmanco  24. Miguel de Icaza - Microsoft's Pet Monkey                          7May 16 10:07
trmancohttp://identi.ca/notice/4295087May 16 10:17
trmancohahaMay 16 10:17
DaemonFChttp://rainbowstalin5.ytmnd.com/May 16 10:23
DaemonFC:)May 16 10:23
trmancololMay 16 10:28
trmancoI like the musicMay 16 10:28
trmanco:)May 16 10:28
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUVmh6dhFzAMay 16 10:28
tessierschestowitz: I need to get some sleep.May 16 10:28
DaemonFCthere's the videoMay 16 10:28
tessierschestowitz: There will be some downtime on the server tomorrow afternoon my time as I move some things around. Once that is done it should be up pretty much permanently.May 16 10:29
tessierI'll get with you tomorrow to finish the setup. 'nightMay 16 10:29
schestowitzExcellent!May 16 10:29
schestowitzI'll be here all day today (GMT)May 16 10:30
DaemonFChttp://rainbowstalin4.ytmnd.com/May 16 10:30
DaemonFChttp://rainbowstalin2.ytmnd.com/May 16 10:30
DaemonFCheheMay 16 10:31
trmanco:DMay 16 10:31
schestowitzHere's a thought:May 16 10:31
schestowitzWhat if...May 16 10:31
schestowitzWe could change domain name ANDMay 16 10:31
schestowitzthe older one kept running as shared and just remapping links to another domain?May 16 10:32
schestowitzAs in boycottnovell.com/whatever->newdomain.com/whateverMay 16 10:33
DaemonFCor if you're being DDoSed you could just redirect to Microsoft.comMay 16 10:33
schestowitzWe already look beyond Novell anywayMay 16 10:33
schestowitzDaemonFC: they can handle itMay 16 10:33
schestowitzI already redirect their FrontPage junk to Microsoft.com/eatyourgarbageMay 16 10:33
trmancololMay 16 10:33
schestowitzDaemonFC: let's think about itMay 16 10:33
schestowitzWhat would be a good new name/theme for BN?May 16 10:34
schestowitzIf we were to change it?May 16 10:34
schestowitzI don't know what to call itMay 16 10:34
schestowitzBut here's the chance to change nameMay 16 10:34
DaemonFCI've never been good with naming thingsMay 16 10:35
DaemonFCit took me 2 weeks to name my catMay 16 10:35
schestowitzThis would mean that I can keep the old account with shared and redirects onluMay 16 10:35
schestowitzAlso good as backup serverMay 16 10:35
schestowitzDaemonFC: many people never name their catsMay 16 10:35
schestowitzBoycott Novell sounds too offensiveMay 16 10:35
schestowitzI never liked the nameMay 16 10:36
schestowitzNot my choice, eitherMay 16 10:36
schestowitzAny suggestions for new name/domain for BN?May 16 10:36
DaemonFCyou ever find out what took it down?May 16 10:36
schestowitzMaybe DDOS, maybe just real loadMay 16 10:36
schestowitzBut the host is unhappy either wayMay 16 10:37
schestowitzSome days we do like half a million hitsMay 16 10:37
schestowitzThe host doesn't care if he promise moreMay 16 10:37
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-99-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 10:41
_Hicham_Hi oiaohm!May 16 10:41
DaemonFChttp://cornonthekabob.ytmnd.com/May 16 10:42
schestowitz_Hicham_: we might rename BNMay 16 10:43
schestowitzAny suggestions?May 16 10:43
_Hicham_why rename it?May 16 10:44
_Hicham_it is a good nameMay 16 10:44
DaemonFChttp://patience-king4.ytmnd.com/May 16 10:45
_Hicham_no renaming until Novell got bankrupt pleaseMay 16 10:45
_Hicham_the issue is still the sameMay 16 10:45
_Hicham_who suggested renaming?May 16 10:46
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-99-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has left #boycottnovellMay 16 10:47
schestowitzSome opensuse people suggested it...May 16 10:48
DaemonFChttp://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Windows_vistaMay 16 10:50
DaemonFCyeah, I actually had every development build of Longhorn all the way up til they rebased it on Windows 2003May 16 10:52
DaemonFCit was gearing up to be a lot better than it turned out beingMay 16 10:52
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwnoMay 16 10:54
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-53-95.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 11:02
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-99-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 11:12
_Hicham_schestowitz : why rename BN?May 16 11:13
schestowitzNever mindMay 16 11:13
schestowitzYou oppose itMay 16 11:13
schestowitzSo it will stayMay 16 11:13
schestowitzThere are other technical issuesMay 16 11:13
schestowitzIn case Novell gets bought, which is likely, thing will get intresting.May 16 11:14
schestowitzLike 80% of Novell is not SUSE anywayMay 16 11:14
_Hicham_yes, that would be a valid reason to rename itMay 16 11:14
_Hicham_Novell is tainting SuSeMay 16 11:14
_Hicham_SuSe have very good toolsMay 16 11:15
schestowitzyastMay 16 11:15
schestowitzI used to use SUSEMay 16 11:15
_Hicham_YaST is greatMay 16 11:15
_Hicham_just like drakconfMay 16 11:16
_Hicham_what do u prefer? YaST or drakconf?May 16 11:16
*ziggyfish has quit ("Leaving")May 16 11:16
_Hicham_it turns out that swfdec have some issues with X ServerMay 16 11:17
_Hicham_I don't know if DRI2 will resolve thatMay 16 11:17
trmancoaptMay 16 11:17
schestowitzI used an old yastMay 16 11:17
schestowitzSo I don't think I can make a fair comparisonMay 16 11:17
schestowitztrmanco: apt is differentMay 16 11:17
trmancoaptitudeMay 16 11:18
_Hicham_apt is to be compared wity zypper, yum and urpmiMay 16 11:18
_Hicham_apt is faster because it is coded in C++May 16 11:18
trmancoI meant aptitudeMay 16 11:19
_Hicham_if only swfdec could get around the high cpu usageMay 16 11:19
trmancoisn't yast some console based package manager?May 16 11:19
_Hicham_swfdec works really greatMay 16 11:19
_Hicham_better than gnashMay 16 11:19
_Hicham_and with better renderingMay 16 11:19
_Hicham_but they have both the high CPU usageMay 16 11:20
trmancoflash 9 had huge cpu usage tooMay 16 11:20
_Hicham_I read in RedHat's bugzilla that it is Xvideo Extension relatedMay 16 11:20
_Hicham_not Flash 10May 16 11:20
_Hicham_Flash 10 has a fair CPU usageMay 16 11:20
_Hicham_but it gets high for long videosMay 16 11:21
_Hicham_the same problemMay 16 11:21
_Hicham_Adobe just made hacks around Xv limitationsMay 16 11:21
_Hicham_hopefully, OpenGL seems to be the solutions to all of thatMay 16 11:21
_Hicham_with DRI2May 16 11:21
_Hicham_where is oiaohm?May 16 11:25
oiaohmWas watching a movie.May 16 11:26
_Hicham_what movie?May 16 11:26
_Hicham_is it a new one?May 16 11:26
oiaohmsubmergedMay 16 11:26
oiaohmNo old one.May 16 11:26
_Hicham_u like historyMay 16 11:27
_Hicham_finally KMS works for me oiaohmMay 16 11:27
oiaohmThere are a lot of movies I have never seen.May 16 11:28
oiaohmOld movies I can pick up for less than going out.May 16 11:28
oiaohmKMS and DRI2 will see a lot of problems disappear.May 16 11:28
_Hicham_A lot of mine disappeared alreadyMay 16 11:29
_Hicham_now I am having a great bootMay 16 11:29
_Hicham_that I have never hadMay 16 11:29
_Hicham_no flickeringMay 16 11:29
_Hicham_no screen corruptionMay 16 11:29
oiaohmOpengl support still needs to catch up.May 16 11:29
_Hicham_trueMay 16 11:30
oiaohmIts still on time table.May 16 11:30
_Hicham_I didn't have to modify xorg.confMay 16 11:30
_Hicham_finallyMay 16 11:30
_Hicham_bye bye xorg.confMay 16 11:30
_Hicham_that was one of the things that I hatedMay 16 11:31
_Hicham_write the device sectionMay 16 11:31
_Hicham_screen sectionMay 16 11:31
_Hicham_server sectionMay 16 11:31
oiaohmhttp://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3167589970.html?kc=rss  This is interesting.May 16 11:31
_Hicham_modules sectionMay 16 11:31
_Hicham_now we have a graphical touchpad setupMay 16 11:32
_Hicham_and a transparent user experienceMay 16 11:33
oiaohmHopefully multi seat support  will return soon.May 16 11:33
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_Hicham_oiaohm : what do u think of swfdec and gnash?May 16 11:33
_Hicham_dead silent roomMay 16 11:40
_Hicham_no one to talk toMay 16 11:40
_Hicham_I would better leaveMay 16 11:40
amd-linuxhehe :-)May 16 11:43
amd-linuxguess everybody is afk for lunchMay 16 11:43
mvkfopwthere's just no topic to talk aboutMay 16 11:45
oiaohmHave not played with swfdec and gnash much recently.May 16 11:48
oiaohmI am getting annoyed with adobe flash memory leaks.May 16 11:50
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_Hicham_swfdec seems in a better state than gnashMay 16 11:55
_Hicham_do u use official Adobe Flash?May 16 11:55
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oiaohmI have a few sites where the last time gnash and swfdec were not good enough.May 16 11:56
_Hicham_give me an exampleMay 16 11:56
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oiaohmBut its been 12 months.   One was a goverment contract site _Hicham_.May 16 11:56
_Hicham_swfdec has gstreamer backend support nowMay 16 11:57
_Hicham_so it should play most flash formatMay 16 11:57
oiaohmSo things could be different now _Hicham_.   And if Adobe flash does not get memory leaks fixed I will be trying them again.May 16 11:58
_Hicham_do u use flash 10?May 16 11:58
oiaohmYep.May 16 11:58
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oiaohmTried it.May 16 11:59
oiaohmhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/25056/532/   Boy the duke nukem zombie.May 16 12:02
_Hicham_Flash in general sucksMay 16 12:02
oiaohmhttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7868784002.html   The title of this is the joke.May 16 12:06
_Hicham_Vive Open Source AlternativesMay 16 12:06
_Hicham_the only proprietary piece of software that I am using now is mp3May 16 12:07
_Hicham_I will convert all of my media files to oggMay 16 12:07
_Hicham_and remove mp3 codecMay 16 12:07
_Hicham_so that I have a clean systemMay 16 12:07
oiaohmSo not using the mp3 open source codec.May 16 12:08
_Hicham_is there any open source mp3 codec?May 16 12:08
oiaohmIt was developed there first.May 16 12:08
oiaohmgsteamer and others can have native support for mp3 in open source.May 16 12:08
_Hicham_are you talking about lame?May 16 12:09
oiaohmOnly reason it missing from distributions is patent.May 16 12:09
_Hicham_yesMay 16 12:09
oiaohmlame is one of the codecs.May 16 12:09
_Hicham_it is patentedMay 16 12:09
_Hicham_that is why I am gonna remove it soonMay 16 12:09
oiaohmIts patent should expire soon.May 16 12:09
_Hicham_I do not want patented software on my machineMay 16 12:09
oiaohmThat will not leave much.May 16 12:10
_Hicham_when the patent will be over?May 16 12:10
oiaohm2011 for decoding.May 16 12:12
_Hicham_that is too farMay 16 12:12
_Hicham_better use oggMay 16 12:12
oiaohmOnly 2 yearsMay 16 12:12
oiaohmEncoding to mp3 is different matter.May 16 12:12
_Hicham_I don't want a patented software, either for encoding of decodingMay 16 12:13
_Hicham_I strive to live freeMay 16 12:14
_Hicham_patents are bad for everyoneMay 16 12:14
_Hicham_patents stop science progressMay 16 12:14
oiaohmProblem is even Linux kernel uses patented stuff.May 16 12:14
oiaohmThat IBM SUN and others allows open source to use.May 16 12:14
oiaohm100 percent patent free and have a working OS is basically impossable.May 16 12:15
oiaohmIt also depends where you are if MP3 patents are even legal _Hicham_May 16 12:17
_Hicham_Hardware is differentMay 16 12:17
oiaohmIBM and SUN patents also apply to OS design _Hicham_May 16 12:18
oiaohmThere are a list of companies that have agreed not to apply patents against open source.May 16 12:19
_Hicham_but applied for commercial purposes?May 16 12:19
oiaohmAppied against closed source yes.May 16 12:19
oiaohmNot against open source in any form of usage.May 16 12:20
oiaohmBasically you want to keep your source code secrect you have to pay.May 16 12:20
_Hicham_greatMay 16 12:20
_Hicham_very very very much greatMay 16 12:21
_Hicham_that is how things should workMay 16 12:21
oiaohmPatents are not complete evil to open source.May 16 12:21
_Hicham_is mp3 patented against open source?May 16 12:21
oiaohmThey are more a netural item that can harm closed source and open soruce equally.May 16 12:21
oiaohmMp3 patent is against open source.May 16 12:21
oiaohmIts even more evil that mp3 was developed open source.May 16 12:22
oiaohmAuthor took out patent inside the 12 months after release USA law allowed.May 16 12:22
_Hicham_I heard about thatMay 16 12:23
oiaohm1991May 16 12:23
oiaohm1992May 16 12:23
oiaohmIt blew up big time.May 16 12:23
_Hicham_vive oggMay 16 12:23
oiaohm2011 2012 depending on country.May 16 12:24
oiaohmThe patent expires for good.May 16 12:24
_Hicham_better use oggMay 16 12:24
_Hicham_and spread itMay 16 12:24
_Hicham_especially that firefox has built-in ogg supportMay 16 12:24
oiaohmBasically 2 to 3 years it will no longer be a issue.May 16 12:24
oiaohmogg is not avialbe from a lot of shops yet.May 16 12:25
oiaohmhttp://www.fluendo.com/shop/product/fluendo-mp3-decoder/  This company is nice too.May 16 12:25
oiaohmThey sell the mp3 decoder to you for nothing.May 16 12:25
oiaohmAnd give you the source code of there decoder.May 16 12:26
oiaohmSo you get a patent licence for nothing.May 16 12:26
oiaohmOf course just for decoding _Hicham_May 16 12:26
_Hicham_I prefer not to use itMay 16 12:27
_Hicham_either for decoding or encodingMay 16 12:27
_Hicham_ogg will take over with firefoxMay 16 12:28
oiaohmHaving it allows you to do the transcoding using all open soruce.May 16 12:28
_Hicham_yesMay 16 12:28
_Hicham_to convert existing filesMay 16 12:28
_Hicham_that is what I doMay 16 12:28
oiaohmOr to try mp3 files to find out if they are worth converting.May 16 12:28
_Hicham_encoding in mp3 must stopMay 16 12:29
_Hicham_that is the golden ruleMay 16 12:29
_Hicham_do not encode in anything but oggMay 16 12:29
oiaohmI have not bothered converting my songs aquired in mp3 since I have a patent  coverage on it for mp3May 16 12:31
oiaohmYes anything I rip is oggMay 16 12:31
oiaohmJust seams like a waste of resources to convert them all when I cannot realy be sued over it.May 16 12:32
oiaohmLast mp3 patent for all the different forms of encoding goes by by in 2017.May 16 12:37
oiaohmencoding you are going to be waiting for patent free.May 16 12:38
_Hicham_why encode in mp3 from the beginning?May 16 13:02
_Hicham_who doesn't like to live free?May 16 13:02
oiaohmI did not.May 16 13:03
oiaohmIts just songs and stuff I got from different places.May 16 13:03
_Hicham_I knowMay 16 13:03
_Hicham_I m just talking about putting videos on the InternetMay 16 13:03
_Hicham_I won't bother using YoutubeMay 16 13:04
_Hicham_I will just put a banner saying that u must use Firefox to view this videoMay 16 13:04
schestowitzHehe. from USENET:May 16 13:05
schestowitz"The machines are arriving with XP Home, and the college IT dept isMay 16 13:05
schestowitzinstalling Linux on every single one. This could be as high as 2000 toMay 16 13:05
schestowitz3000 machines."May 16 13:05
_Hicham_what a wasteMay 16 13:06
_Hicham_2000*$100=$20000May 16 13:06
_Hicham_$100 is the OEM licence priceMay 16 13:07
_Hicham_at leastMay 16 13:08
_Hicham_Microsoft is a thiefMay 16 13:10
oiaohmLOLMay 16 13:14
oiaohmYou really think big OEMs pay 100 dollars for Windows.May 16 13:14
oiaohmCosts 25 dollars per machine to upgrade them to XP pro so they can join network.May 16 13:14
oiaohmWith dell machine is cheeper with XP home istalled than with no OS on it.May 16 13:15
oiaohmJust the the ammount of offset crap dell puts on.   Machine is about 20 dollars more expenive OS less.May 16 13:16
_Hicham_Microsoft pays them?May 16 13:19
oiaohmPart of it is MS paying for trial versions of MS Office.May 16 13:24
schestowitzStill in MS' pockets: "Back home from SF -- but soon off to a Microsoft pre-brief. I feel like it's been awhile!" http://twitter.com/josephtartakoff/statuses/1808052071May 16 13:24
oiaohmIts all the trial crap put on the system _Hicham_May 16 13:24
zer0c00lschestowitz, Still server down what happened?May 16 13:30
zer0c00lFC11 on OLPC? http://blog.printf.net/articles/2009/05/16/the-olpc-xo-1-5-and-fedora-11May 16 13:32
*zer0c00l is enjoying thunder storms May 16 13:33
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oiaohmhttp://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/16/1142230  This could turn out nasty for google.May 16 14:08
oiaohmhttp://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090515/1154504899.shtml  Now this is offeneive pushing for more open copyright.May 16 14:10
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schestowitzJust got this:May 16 14:12
schestowitz"Lhater is classic, sound like it could have been written byMay 16 14:12
schestowitzflatfish(s), it;s the combination of abuse and technical issues. AndMay 16 14:12
schestowitzdropping in a 'freetard' and a 'crapware' every so often. See hereMay 16 14:12
schestowitzwhere Lunduke is talking up a fake disagreement with Hhater. So weMay 16 14:12
schestowitzhave both Lunduke and de Icaza both drawing attention to it. Time forMay 16 14:12
schestowitza call to 'out' Lhater.May 16 14:12
schestowitzhttp://lunduke.com/?p=526 "May 16 14:12
schestowitzStupid fakers writing messages under my name too.May 16 14:13
schestowitz"Anonymous  Roy Schestowitz said...May 16 14:14
schestowitz    "In 2004, a variant of the Sasser worm infected my three-city network, and by the time the dust settled, it had cost me $12,000.00 in business. My machines were fully protected and fully patched."May 16 14:14
schestowitz    Looks like you are the idiot, and a liar too. Had you been using a firewall, your machines would have been "fully protected", but you didn't use one. Assuming ANY of your story was even true. Given your history, I doubt it.May 16 14:14
schestowitz    5/16/09 7:51 AM"May 16 14:14
schestowitzI didn't write this. Imposters.May 16 14:14
schestowitzGood news.May 16 14:20
schestowitzI should be able to pull the UTD data for migrationMay 16 14:20
schestowitzFakers http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/05/thin-line-between-victim-and-idiot.html "FAKE WARNING. That message above which is claimed to be from me is a forger. I did not write this."May 16 14:28
schestowitz"Would you mind going onto the "idiots" blog and refuting this.  I would appreciate it."May 16 14:29
schestowitzIt's someone from Digg who forges me. ("Someone that really hates me and goes by the name of "yonah"  Familiar with this person?")May 16 14:29
schestowitzProgress on ON (FWIW):May 16 14:30
schestowitz> Wow! I literally was in the middle of opening up an account atMay 16 14:31
schestowitz> > serverbeach cuz they have 2x the package that surpass does at $69/mo. vsMay 16 14:31
schestowitz> > $65 for surpass.May 16 14:31
schestowitzOn Tracy's massive server we have no caps. :-)May 16 14:31
schestowitzNo cpanel, but we can live with that, right? We have SSH access, too.May 16 14:31
schestowitz> > I will get the old account activated for the purpose of retrieving the dataMay 16 14:32
schestowitz> > do you want me to xfer the domains to you via godaddy or what dnsMay 16 14:32
schestowitz> > info do you want me to plug in?May 16 14:32
schestowitzSo now we just to test it first on the new server, assuming we get it all running, then this afternoon it could be up, hopefully. :-)May 16 14:32
schestowitzMicrosoft to users: Don’t switch to Vista < http://practical-tech.com/operating-system/microsoft-to-users-dont-switch-to-vista/ >May 16 14:45
schestowitzMySQL Founder Monty Widenius and Percona CEO Peter Zaitsev Launch the Open Database Alliance < http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/05/prweb2417854.htm >May 16 14:50
schestowitzCorruption all over, including the SEC itself: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/14/cbsnews_investigates/main5014672.shtml "CBS News has learned that two attorneys at the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) are under "active" criminal investigation by the FBI for trading stocks based on inside information."May 16 14:52
schestowitzShort-Selling Sparks RICO Suit Against Financial Giants < http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202430726911 >May 16 14:57
_Hicham_Open Database Alliance is founded to counter OracleMay 16 15:04
_Hicham_MySQL destiny is unclearMay 16 15:06
zer0c00lschestowitz, why should they fake your name ?May 16 15:06
schestowitzTo discredit meMay 16 15:06
zer0c00lschestowitz, When BN will be up?May 16 15:07
schestowitzWhen tessier wakes up we can probably get some stuff restored, then test it and change DNSMay 16 15:09
Eruaranhi royMay 16 15:10
zer0c00lokMay 16 15:10
Eruaranhows the search for a server going ?May 16 15:10
_Hicham_schestowitz : try byethostMay 16 15:11
_Hicham_byethost is greatMay 16 15:11
schestowitzNo needMay 16 15:11
_Hicham_why?May 16 15:11
schestowitzEruaran: we have oneMay 16 15:11
schestowitzNo GUI, but that's fineMay 16 15:11
Eruarangreat newsMay 16 15:11
schestowitzI wait for the admin ( tessier ) to wake upMay 16 15:11
schestowitzI need to put the DBs in place, test, get an IP and allMay 16 15:12
Eruaran:)May 16 15:12
_Hicham_you will put things on ur own server?May 16 15:12
schestowitzConversation with a friend about the site being down:May 16 15:17
schestowitz>> Moving servers most likely.May 16 15:18
schestowitz> May 16 15:18
schestowitz> MSFTers in the current hosting service? Not likely Account allows 500gb, we only use 200gb, they say "far too much"May 16 15:18
schestowitz_Hicham_: sort ofMay 16 15:18
schestowitzI trust tessier May 16 15:18
schestowitzNo so-called "MSFTers" thereMay 16 15:18
schestowitzThis friend has seen Microsofters vandalising a lot of pro-Linux things over the yearsMay 16 15:18
schestowitzIt's like a cult, he'd day, and he's probably rightMay 16 15:19
schestowitzSee that one from the other day: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/15/1229231&art_pos=1May 16 15:19
schestowitzGartner&MS cult fight Linux with liesMay 16 15:19
_Hicham_If I had a server, I would have offered you a free hostingMay 16 15:19
schestowitzAbout the Zuck shill, one person says:May 16 15:20
schestowitz"Maybe it makes sense to collect all these original news bits in a wikiMay 16 15:20
schestowitzpage to get a complete lobby profile but I have no time for this currently."May 16 15:20
schestowitzWe really need to organise all the material at some stageMay 16 15:20
schestowitz_Hicham_: thanks!May 16 15:20
schestowitzzer0c00l: Ken will write about the forget.May 16 15:25
schestowitz===May 16 15:25
schestowitz> I think I'm fixin to embarrass the crap out of him.  I won't drag youMay 16 15:25
schestowitz> into it any more than to mention that he forged your name and that he'sMay 16 15:25
schestowitz> done it before.  Is there anywhere you know of off the top of your headMay 16 15:25
schestowitz> that might still be up on the net?May 16 15:25
schestowitzhttp://www.schestowitz.com/temp/screenshots/yonah.pngMay 16 15:25
schestowitz(look closely at entries)May 16 15:25
schestowitzhttp://digg.com/users/Amiga501May 16 15:25
schestowitzbanned. (I didn't even realise this until now)May 16 15:25
schestowitzMore forgers in:May 16 15:25
schestowitzhttp://www.schestowitz.com/temp/screenshots/May 16 15:25
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zer0c00lschestowitz,forget?May 16 15:26
schestowitz*ForgerMay 16 15:26
zer0c00lokokMay 16 15:26
zer0c00lyeahMay 16 15:26
zer0c00l:)May 16 15:26
schestowitzVicious attack dogs that make death threats and the likeMay 16 15:26
schestowitzThe craziest kindsMay 16 15:26
zer0c00llol roy you have  got a collectionMay 16 15:27
zer0c00l:)May 16 15:27
schestowitzSmall one. There are more out there.May 16 15:28
schestowitzSome expire and I needed proof, so there are screenshotsMay 16 15:28
schestowitzDigg staff was mostly ignoring the problemMay 16 15:28
schestowitzThey let people post under my name as though I was gay and stuffMay 16 15:28
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schestowitzIn USENET too they spread all sorts of libel like cross-gender and all.May 16 15:29
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MinceRj0May 16 15:42
schestowitzzer0c00l: update on the Forget.May 16 15:43
schestowitz*ForgerMay 16 15:43
schestowitz==May 16 15:44
schestowitz> Yeah, this guy is a putz.  I banned him about 2 months ago for nastyMay 16 15:44
schestowitz> language on a site I invite kids to come read.  Not much class there atMay 16 15:44
schestowitz> all.  I am trying to pin him to Penguin Pete...the speech and writingMay 16 15:44
schestowitz> cadence is almost identical but he uses Tor and other anon tools...makesMay 16 15:44
schestowitz> it tough.  The Yonah personality is heavily invested in Digg. ProbablyMay 16 15:44
schestowitz> several aliases there as well.May 16 15:44
schestowitzThe language is intended to litter the place, give it a bad name, and thus drive away readers. Slashdot too is a victim of it.May 16 15:44
schestowitzKonsole Fonts < http://blog.nixternal.com/2009.05.15/konsole-fonts/ >May 16 15:47
zer0c00lokMay 16 15:48
schestowitzhttp://linsec.ca/blog/2009/05/15/sappy-but/ "Red Hat is *way* different from Mandriva, so I’ve had 8 years of one way of working to overcome in the last 3mos. "May 16 15:49
schestowitzMigrating from Fedora Art Team to Fedora Design Team < https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2009-May/msg00171.html >May 16 15:51
schestowitzActivists push city endorsements of open source http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=4223May 16 15:52
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schestowitzU.K. police swamped by surveillance TV data < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10241664-83.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 >May 16 16:06
schestowitzI'm back in exactly 2 hours. If tessier wakes up, could you let him know? It seems as though we're almost ready to swap DNS.May 16 16:19
schestowitzback at 6May 16 16:19
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maxstirner1server is down? :(May 16 17:02
taconeBn still offline ?May 16 17:02
maxstirner1not good ;)May 16 17:02
maxstirner1too much traffic i guessMay 16 17:02
taconeIf the wiki is the problem just revert to the blog layoutMay 16 17:03
maxstirner1i think the idea was to give new users an overview of the issues rather than confronting them with the day-to-day newsMay 16 17:03
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taconeYep but when the wiki was innaccessible the blog kept workingMay 16 17:07
taconeI recommend trying reverting.May 16 17:07
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taconeTell schestowiz if you see him. I won't be online for the next few daysMay 16 17:11
taconeByeMay 16 17:11
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twitterTwitter is rested.May 16 17:40
twitterGood morning.May 16 17:40
mvkfopwwtf, i just got banned from windowsMay 16 17:42
mvkfopwyet 20th timeMay 16 17:42
mvkfopwor may be more...May 16 17:42
twitterESR predicted M$ would attack the entire GNU/Linux community.  They did this previously to individuals who worked for competitors.May 16 17:42
mvkfopwi just don't rememberMay 16 17:42
twitterFakers, trolls and FUD are the only weapons they have against free software.May 16 17:42
twitterThey can't just kill a few companies and expect free software to go away, they have to destroy the community itself.May 16 17:43
twitterThey intend to sew distrust, infighting, and repulse newcomers as well as disrupt information exchange.May 16 17:44
mvkfopwlolMay 16 17:44
twitterBBs, Google and GNU/Linux sites are critical to recruiting new members to the community, so they trash them.May 16 17:44
mvkfopwthat's obviousMay 16 17:45
mvkfopwbut i got banned from ##windows almost for no reasonMay 16 17:45
twitterMany people do not believe this and think it's paranoid.May 16 17:45
twitterFor instance, they think M$ hates Google because of economic competition alone.  They have hated Google for much longer for proving the worth of free software and providing good organization of free software conversations.May 16 17:46
mvkfopwfopw> theacolyte, the moderation is not helpingMay 16 17:46
mvkfopw* Widget` has left ##windows ("Leaving")May 16 17:46
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> i was trying to use [tab] after "moder"May 16 17:46
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> nopeMay 16 17:46
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> it's not hw interruptsMay 16 17:46
mvkfopw<sureis> hw?May 16 17:46
mvkfopw<Hentai7> he means, make use of enter less mvkfopwMay 16 17:46
mvkfopw<sureis> it isMay 16 17:46
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> you can as well stall for bus stallMay 16 17:46
mvkfopw* Alagar has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))May 16 17:46
mvkfopw<sureis> i am saying that i am looking at it when it does that...!May 16 17:46
twitterIn order to disrupt that organization, they have flooded sites like Slashdot with offensive spam.May 16 17:46
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> Hentai7, who karez?May 16 17:46
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mvkfopw<bosco> i have an avi file and i need to burn it to a cd so it will play automaticly in a dvd player how do i do that ????????????????????????????May 16 17:47
mvkfopw<Hentai7> mvkfopw, channel staffMay 16 17:47
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mvkfopw* |Assid| is now known as AssidMay 16 17:47
mvkfopw* THE_GFR|WORK looks at mvkfopw and says wtf?May 16 17:47
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> Hentai7, i know that you're hentaixpMay 16 17:47
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> but do i karre?May 16 17:47
mvkfopwis it enough to understand?May 16 17:47
mvkfopw'cause i kan proved the full loggMay 16 17:47
mvkfopwprovide*May 16 17:49
mvkfopwfopw> anyone who tells you about hardware interupts will kill yaMay 16 17:49
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> as a personMay 16 17:49
mvkfopw<DFXDeimos> THE_GFR|WORK: Try the Logitech QuickCam Communicate MPMay 16 17:49
mvkfopw<sureis> it is more wreckage that it is going crazy and i dont know what it is no?May 16 17:49
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mvkfopw<mvkfopw> so what bothers you about hardware interrupts?May 16 17:49
mvkfopw<sureis> can you say anything that hardware interrupts is?May 16 17:49
mvkfopw<sureis> iterrupts what?May 16 17:49
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> dudeMay 16 17:49
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> you should've known betterMay 16 17:49
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> what interrupts your cpu?May 16 17:49
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> like hddsMay 16 17:49
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> timerMay 16 17:49
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> keyboardMay 16 17:49
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> pciMay 16 17:49
mvkfopw* repro____ has quit IRC (Read error: 113 (No route to host))May 16 17:50
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> agoMay 16 17:50
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> wtfMay 16 17:50
mvkfopw<mvkfopw>  pci-xMay 16 17:50
mvkfopw<sureis> so if my hdd is badly fragged it will heat the cpu on interrupts yes?May 16 17:50
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> wtfMay 16 17:50
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> noMay 16 17:50
mvkfopw<sureis> it is making big overtime on everything...May 16 17:50
mvkfopw* Assid has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))May 16 17:50
mvkfopw<mvkfopw> interrupts have nothing to do with datMay 16 17:50
mvkfopwthat was quite beforeMay 16 17:50
mvkfopwstrings before stringMay 16 17:50
mvkfopwlast oneMay 16 17:50
schestowitztessier: back yet?May 16 17:51
twitterWow, that EU GNU/Linux migration story is really amazing.  M$ and Gartner should hang their heads in shame again.May 16 17:51
twitterI have not see tessier.  is anything new?May 16 17:52
schestowitzJust need the db set upMay 16 17:53
mvkfopw...May 16 17:54
trmancohttp://technologizer.com/2009/05/14/rumor-microsoft-can-kill-xbox-360s-remotely/May 16 17:54
mvkfopwm$ kan kill xbox360 remote?May 16 17:55
MinceRit would be nice to know if that's trueMay 16 17:55
schestowitztrmanco: yes, I knowMay 16 17:55
mvkfopwaccording to that article, MinceR, it's trueMay 16 17:56
mvkfopwbut we could try itMay 16 17:57
MinceRthe article also states that it's a rumorMay 16 17:57
mvkfopwnot onlyMay 16 17:58
mvkfopwIf the report is accurate, the obvious question remains: Does Microsoft have the legal right to do this? Yes, Metcalf argues, because hacking an Xbox 360 is a violation of the console’s terms of service, as well as the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.May 16 17:58
mvkfopwI was hesitant to agree at first, because Microsoft would then have to reserve the right, in its agreement with the user, to disable the console.May 16 17:59
*mvkfopw is a bit tired of consolesMay 16 18:00
mvkfopwthey don't make quite any senseMay 16 18:00
mvkfopwyet there're plenty of patent, copyright, license agreement warsMay 16 18:03
mvkfopwit's quite easire to make less of them than talking about them in hereMay 16 18:05
mvkfopwFOR SUREMay 16 18:05
mvkfopweasier*May 16 18:05
schestowitzAt a later stage, when the site is back up, we need to use Google search to go through BN and pick the list of Zuck appearances to be presented more cohesively. It's on the non-existent 'todo' list.May 16 18:09
schestowitzmvkfopw: that site about the XBox is MSFTisedMay 16 18:09
schestowitzthe guy who runs itMay 16 18:10
schestowitzBribed by MSMay 16 18:10
schestowitz(Vista 7 laptop, 2008)May 16 18:10
mvkfopwwaitwaitwaitMay 16 18:10
mvkfopwit's xbox m$'s thingy?May 16 18:10
mvkfopwso every site that has got xbox in ti is m$s' thingyMay 16 18:11
twitterhttp://slashdot.org/submission/1002165/M-Officially-Discourages-Vista-MigrationsMay 16 18:11
mvkfopwomgMay 16 18:11
mvkfopwm$ discourages vista migrations?May 16 18:11
mvkfopwyeah, it's capable ofMay 16 18:12
mvkfopw'cause it's dumbMay 16 18:12
schestowitzYeah, I saw that sjvn articleMay 16 18:12
twitterNon free software vendors reserve the "right" to terminate your license at any time for any reason.  It's always been in their EULAs and there has always been code to make it so.  It is only now that they dare do it.May 16 18:13
twitterM$ has officially killed Vista with that statement.  Their shills and other liars will deny it but that's the fact.May 16 18:14
twitterI think I'd seen that before, but it's nice to have it quoted from a M$ employee making an official statement.May 16 18:15
schestowitzWill Your Next Netbook Be Running Android? < http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/05/android-netbooks/ >May 16 18:15
mvkfopwmkayMay 16 18:16
mvkfopwlet's take it this way:May 16 18:16
mvkfopwm$ is only discouraging vista migrationsMay 16 18:16
mvkfopwjust because it wants everybod to move to vista8May 16 18:16
mvkfopwoh noMay 16 18:16
mvkfopwvista7May 16 18:16
mvkfopwbut only then it will be vista8May 16 18:16
mvkfopwlike in 2-3 yearsMay 16 18:17
schestowitzTHewy already talk about itMay 16 18:18
schestowitzThe pro-vapour vapourwareMay 16 18:18
mvkfopwidk who's thewyMay 16 18:18
mvkfopwno like that?May 16 18:18
schestowitzWhen Vista7 stinks they might start talking more about the next Dream(R)May 16 18:18
mvkfopw'm pretty sure they don't do anything at all to make it vista8May 16 18:18
mvkfopwthey will do it vista xp instead but named vista 8May 16 18:18
mvkfopwthere's nothing they can implement right nowMay 16 18:19
twitterVista Failure is complete http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855May 16 18:19
mvkfopwnot even directXMay 16 18:19
mvkfopwthat's only for vistaMay 16 18:19
mvkfopwbut they willMay 16 18:19
mvkfopwand even though there're no dx11 compatible cardsMay 16 18:20
mvkfopwthey will produce it XDMay 16 18:20
mvkfopw'cause dx11 is not about softwardMay 16 18:20
mvkfopweMay 16 18:20
mvkfopwlolMay 16 18:20
mvkfopwnot about hardwarMay 16 18:20
mvkfopweMay 16 18:20
mvkfopwthat it doesn't touch at allMay 16 18:20
twitterWhen M$ says to half Vista migration for migration to Vaporware, you know that Windows is dead.May 16 18:21
mvkfopwbut only dx10May 16 18:21
mvkfopwwhich was only vista implementtedMay 16 18:21
twitterand Vista is over.May 16 18:21
mvkfopwmkayMay 16 18:21
mvkfopwbut does it take that short?May 16 18:22
mvkfopwvista is already about 20% faked "market share"May 16 18:22
twitterIt's that fastMay 16 18:23
mvkfopwlolMay 16 18:23
mvkfopwit's fastMay 16 18:23
twitterNo one is going to buy a computer with Vista on it now.May 16 18:23
mvkfopwfor an os to take marketMay 16 18:23
mvkfopwyupMay 16 18:23
mvkfopwat least i didn't want to buy a GOOD laptopMay 16 18:23
mvkfopwwith vista on itMay 16 18:23
mvkfopwyou gotta look at itMay 16 18:24
twitterSo there's at least 6 more months of OEM hardship.... to be followed by Windows 7 failure.May 16 18:24
mvkfopwhttp://shop.key.ru/shop/goods/91198/May 16 18:24
mvkfopwlook at thatMay 16 18:24
mvkfopwi didn't buy it just 'cause of vistaMay 16 18:25
mvkfopwand look at the priceMay 16 18:25
twitterThe only way I'd buy a Vista laptop is used, after reading a GNU/Linux review about it or after running a live CD on it in a store.May 16 18:25
mvkfopwand use wolframalpha.com to find out what the price in usd wasMay 16 18:25
twitterMost have nasty hardware that you DO NOT WANT.May 16 18:25
mvkfopwnot hardwareMay 16 18:25
mvkfopwi'm pretty sureMay 16 18:25
mvkfopwthat hardware is supportedMay 16 18:25
twitterbroadcom wireles is nasty.May 16 18:26
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twitterthere are other issues.  I'm not sure about the thing you just posted.May 16 18:26
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mvkfopwi'm not even interested in wifiMay 16 18:26
twitterreally?May 16 18:27
choirboyhey - what's the deal with boycotnovell.com being down?May 16 18:27
mvkfopwfo sureMay 16 18:27
choirboyhow much bandwidth do they use?May 16 18:27
mvkfopwi pay fo my inet 640/704May 16 18:27
twitterI've got a wire now, but it's only because I have not set up a reasonable network here.May 16 18:27
mvkfopwand i can safely use it at my workplaceMay 16 18:27
mvkfopwit's about 30-35$/month hereMay 16 18:28
twitterwell then, you especially want to avoid wifi that does not work.  If it's nasty enough it can harm performance for the whole system.May 16 18:29
mvkfopwat workplace it's none of my concern as long as it's city-wise internetMay 16 18:29
twitterbogus interupts and that kind of thing.May 16 18:29
mvkfopwnopeMay 16 18:29
mvkfopwi don't kare for wifiMay 16 18:29
mvkfopwthere are free wifi hereMay 16 18:29
mvkfopwin the local universityMay 16 18:29
twitterOKMay 16 18:29
mvkfopwi can sit down there for as long as i wantMay 16 18:29
mvkfopwi graduated that one actuallyMay 16 18:30
mvkfopwand can teach in thereMay 16 18:30
mvkfopwif i want of courseMay 16 18:30
*mvkfopw is now known as _boo_May 16 18:32
schestowitzchoirboy: over 200gb last monthMay 16 18:33
choirboywowsersMay 16 18:33
schestowitzBut we keep growing and the host took us downMay 16 18:34
_boo_wow there's that laptop in nearest townMay 16 18:34
schestowitzWe have a new homeMay 16 18:34
choirboyyeah, I gathered.  :-(May 16 18:34
choirboyah cool!May 16 18:34
schestowitzBut still migrating. Waiting for tessier to wake upMay 16 18:34
_boo_wtf, i gotta buy itMay 16 18:34
choirboywell glad you have a new placeMay 16 18:34
_boo_even though it's vistaMay 16 18:34
choirboy200GB is pretty impressiveMay 16 18:34
choirboyy'all do some good workMay 16 18:34
_boo_'cause they don't sell anything good near 40% of that priceMay 16 18:34
_boo_and i'm pretty sure that i will have a dual boot in thereMay 16 18:35
twitterwow, free software accomplishment http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/16/1316242May 16 18:35
twitterhadoop sorts 1TB in 16 secondsMay 16 18:36
_boo_yahoo grid computing team?May 16 18:36
_boo_graysort contest XDMay 16 18:36
choirboyThey sorted 1TB in 62 seconds, and 1PB in 16.25 hours.May 16 18:36
_boo_lolMay 16 18:37
_boo_petabytes?May 16 18:37
*choirboy nodsMay 16 18:37
_boo_kewlMay 16 18:37
_boo_i can't interfere with themMay 16 18:37
choirboyamazing actuallyMay 16 18:37
_boo_i just don't have petabyte storageMay 16 18:37
_boo_but i do know every sane sort thereMay 16 18:38
_boo_even if it's combinedMay 16 18:38
twitterugh, idiots sue google over adwords and Slashdot gives favorable coverage.May 16 18:38
_boo_combined are almost all in-placeMay 16 18:38
_boo_if people knew what it takes them... they may be used another sortsMay 16 18:39
_boo_that's always like thatMay 16 18:39
_boo_twitterMay 16 18:40
_boo_why idiots?May 16 18:40
_boo_they gotta point out that their laws are interferredMay 16 18:41
_boo_so wtfMay 16 18:41
_boo_google gotta comply with itMay 16 18:41
twitterit's bullshitMay 16 18:41
_boo_if it still wanna stay in that countryMay 16 18:41
_boo_YUP!May 16 18:41
_boo_it's BULLSHIT!May 16 18:42
_boo_but people gotta point that outMay 16 18:42
_boo_so this BULLSHIT means lessMay 16 18:42
twitterthe adwords do not interfere with Google's core function and are themselves subject to algorithms based on relevance.May 16 18:42
_boo_lolMay 16 18:43
_boo_nopeMay 16 18:43
twitterit is no different from any other form of advertising, really.May 16 18:43
_boo_lolMay 16 18:43
_boo_nopeMay 16 18:43
_boo_in both casesMay 16 18:43
twitterso you think M$ advertising showing up on all GNU/Linux sites is some kind of accident?May 16 18:43
twitterand you would blame Google?May 16 18:44
_boo_twitter, why do you always try to attackMay 16 18:44
_boo_rather than learn from smthMay 16 18:44
_boo_i can explain everything that i knowMay 16 18:44
twitterthen quit wasting keystrokes and educateMay 16 18:44
_boo_twitter, are you always on speeds?May 16 18:44
_boo_i know you're smartMay 16 18:45
_boo_and you know pretty muchMay 16 18:45
_boo_way too muchMay 16 18:45
_boo_but i still wonderMay 16 18:45
_boo_how you guys don't still understand the basicsMay 16 18:45
twitterno, now you make it personal.May 16 18:45
_boo_XDMay 16 18:45
_boo_personallMay 16 18:45
_boo_i could as well talk to you only in privateMay 16 18:45
twitterno thanks, just justify these silly lawsuits based on what you know or shut up.May 16 18:46
_boo_and i will personally don't kareMay 16 18:46
_boo_or shut up...May 16 18:46
_boo_mkayMay 16 18:46
_boo_so what you want me to justifyMay 16 18:46
_boo_name itMay 16 18:46
twitterUse current trademark laws to keep me from selling advertisement placement based on the rather generic word "Coke"May 16 18:48
_boo_wtf?May 16 18:48
_boo_'ve i been talking about "coke"?May 16 18:48
_boo_my only interest in this channle is only about linux and windowsMay 16 18:49
twitterAs I understand trademark, it bans the publication of trademarks that may be confusing.  There is nothing confusing about what Google does.May 16 18:49
_boo_and apple a bitMay 16 18:49
_boo_dudeMay 16 18:49
_boo_you gotta take some international lawMay 16 18:49
_boo_or at least one that's capable of suing anything concernedMay 16 18:49
_boo_even though it's south articaMay 16 18:50
twitter(10:52:07 AM) twitter: ugh, idiots sue google over adwords and Slashdot gives favorable coverage. (10:54:23 AM) _boo_: twitterMay 16 18:50
twitter(10:54:27 AM) _boo_: why idiots?May 16 18:50
twitter(10:54:46 AM) _boo_: they gotta point out that their laws are interferredMay 16 18:50
twitterI think I've wasted enough time on this.May 16 18:50
_boo_'cause i'm not even interested in anything that's of law and only of theoretical issueMay 16 18:50
_boo_yeah, twitter, you wasted enough timeMay 16 18:51
_boo_just move onMay 16 18:51
_boo_for whatever you're capable ofMay 16 18:51
*choirboy (n=tcameron@rrcs-24-173-79-19.sw.biz.rr.com) has left #boycottnovellMay 16 18:52
twitterHow about the name "Free Times"?May 16 18:52
schestowitzzer0c00l: I didn't get mailMay 16 18:52
_boo_so now you want me to comment on "free times" two wordsMay 16 18:53
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_boo_mkayMay 16 18:53
_boo_i will search them outMay 16 18:53
_boo_and i will surelly tell in public hereMay 16 18:53
_boo_what it means and what it's worthMay 16 18:53
twitterI was asking Roy, but your input will be entertaining boo.May 16 18:54
dsmith_server down?\May 16 18:54
twitterstillMay 16 18:54
_boo_but don't be wondered if i ask you for directionsMay 16 18:54
twitter:)May 16 18:55
_boo_'cause i believe ther are plenty of "free times"May 16 18:55
schestowitzdsmith_: maybe back tonightMay 16 18:55
schestowitzNew server needs setting up, then DNSMay 16 18:55
_boo_so is it columbia, cleveland, or just freetimes.comMay 16 18:55
_boo_chattanooga?May 16 18:56
_boo_caf?May 16 18:56
_boo_eMay 16 18:56
_boo_don't be shyMay 16 18:56
_boo_2 words are quite enough to build an answer withMay 16 18:56
_boo_there are much moreMay 16 18:56
_boo_just say moreMay 16 18:57
_boo_"more"May 16 18:57
_boo_and none of "free times" are talking linux directlyMay 16 18:58
_boo_so, twitter?May 16 18:58
twitterRight so there's no GNU/Linux "free times" right now.May 16 18:59
_boo_lolMay 16 18:59
_boo_it's just lolMay 16 18:59
twitter"Free Software Times" might be better.May 16 18:59
*zer0c00l has quit (Remote closed the connection)May 16 19:00
twitterBetter than Boycott NovellMay 16 19:00
_boo_dude, you better gave a direct linkMay 16 19:00
_boo_'cause even "Free Software Times" is not quite enoughMay 16 19:00
_boo_and there's none pages answering only to datMay 16 19:01
_boo_you're kinda out of the boardMay 16 19:01
twitterOh, sorry boo, I was asking Roy for his opinion of a name change.  You not finding anything is good news.May 16 19:01
twitterthanks for looking.May 16 19:01
_boo_and don't even get what the talk is aboutMay 16 19:01
_boo_twitter, he already toldMay 16 19:02
_boo_he got some very cool response from opensuse communityMay 16 19:02
Balrog_hi twitterMay 16 19:02
_boo_that effed his brainsMay 16 19:02
_boo_so he asked hioamMay 16 19:02
Balrog_yeah, the trolls on slashdot are annoying ... they blame you for a lot of thingsMay 16 19:02
Balrog_:/May 16 19:02
_boo_whether he should renameMay 16 19:02
_boo_and he didn't ask you, twitterMay 16 19:03
twitterYes, the trolls blame their victims.  Say Slashdot sucks, that kind of thing.May 16 19:03
twitterThat's what they do.  Right boo?May 16 19:03
*Balrog (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-71-187.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 19:04
_boo_but you could just as well ask me what was it all aboutMay 16 19:04
Balrog_twitter: you've seen 'sockdisclosure' right?May 16 19:04
_boo_idk, twitterMay 16 19:04
twitterYesMay 16 19:04
_boo_you seem to be attacked by trollsMay 16 19:04
twitteranyone who talks about free software is attackedMay 16 19:04
_boo_on twitter or /. or whateverMay 16 19:04
_boo_dudeMay 16 19:04
_boo_i'm using free softwareMay 16 19:05
Balrog_they attempt to make you look like a trollMay 16 19:05
_boo_and never bough anything m$May 16 19:05
_boo_Balrog_, i personally don't care anymoreMay 16 19:05
twitterYes, that's what they do.  It does not work very well.May 16 19:05
_boo_even if i get bannedMay 16 19:05
twitterSo, boo, what do you think of the name "Free Software Times" other than "Roy did not ask you, twitter"?May 16 19:06
schestowitzHitcham is against a name changeMay 16 19:06
schestowitzThere are technical issues with thatMay 16 19:06
_boo_twitter, didn't u use smth mind-altering?May 16 19:06
schestowitzNot just a sort of site rebranding so to speak, which would take a lot of workMay 16 19:07
Balrog_I mean, how do they say things like "This person currently has sixteen known accounts on Slashdot" ?May 16 19:07
twitterThey know because they monitor my net use through my ISP.May 16 19:07
schestowitzObama lies again and defends Bush in a way. http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39587prs20090513.html Obama Administration Reverses Promise To Release Torture Photos May 16 19:07
_boo_mkayMay 16 19:07
twitterI think that's more damaging than my trying to avoid their cenosrship.May 16 19:07
_boo_the funny thing isMay 16 19:08
_boo_that schestowitz being pretty opeMay 16 19:08
_boo_nMay 16 19:08
_boo_is not a schizophrenicMay 16 19:08
_boo_and you are, twitterMay 16 19:08
twitterI'm not sure site rebranding is a bad idea, you have kicked the idea around for a few years.May 16 19:08
Balrog_and how do they lay out all those 'troll' accounts?May 16 19:08
twitterI'm not sure what you mean Barlog?May 16 19:09
twitterthey have lots and lots of troll accountsMay 16 19:09
_boo_twitter, what's the matter of site rebranding?May 16 19:09
Balrog_they give a list of names of accounts that are similar to other people, then say it's youMay 16 19:09
twitterthey have purchased them from legitimate owners, cracked others and simply created them with botnets.May 16 19:10
twitterYes, they play all sort of name gamesMay 16 19:10
Balrog_the similar ones or the original ones?May 16 19:10
twitterlike neo-nazi trolls with names similar to twitter.May 16 19:10
twitterfake bruce perens accountsMay 16 19:10
twitterRoy was talking about that kind of thing earlier too.May 16 19:11
twitterTheir journal of sock disclosure is sort of a parody of my troll zoo.May 16 19:11
Balrog_hm..May 16 19:11
twitterhttp://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/204737May 16 19:12
twitterThey really, really hate me.May 16 19:12
twitterjust like they hate Slashdot itself.May 16 19:12
twitterone thing they have blamed me for is Vista's failure.  that's funnyMay 16 19:12
twitterI'd like to take credit but I know Vista would have failed with or without my help.May 16 19:13
schestowitzI'm gonna stop commenting in publicMay 16 19:13
schestowitzOutside sides where I use PGPMay 16 19:13
twitterwowMay 16 19:13
schestowitzSomeone advised this to me at the gymMay 16 19:13
schestowitzThere are vandalsMay 16 19:13
schestowitzThey insult friends of mineMay 16 19:13
schestowitzUnder my own nameMay 16 19:13
Balrog_I see. :(May 16 19:13
schestowitzAnd I only know about the cases where they TELL meMay 16 19:13
twittertrueMay 16 19:14
schestowitzI think it also happened in USENET last weekMay 16 19:14
schestowitzAlso this morningMay 16 19:14
twitterIt won't stop the vandalsMay 16 19:14
schestowitzCharacter assassination by impoirsonationMay 16 19:14
schestowitzIt's funnt that Kanye West was shouing at Twitter the other dayMay 16 19:14
schestowitzSome phony who hijacked him name has over 1 million subscribers in TwitterMay 16 19:14
schestowitzThey think it's KanyeMay 16 19:15
schestowitzAnd he mocks himMay 16 19:15
twitterbut the goal of their assassination is to get you to shut up.May 16 19:15
schestowitzThen there's Fake Steve Jobs and other rubbishMay 16 19:15
schestowitztwitter: nopeMay 16 19:15
schestowitzTo get people to ignore youMay 16 19:15
schestowitzOr resent youMay 16 19:15
schestowitzByfield tooMay 16 19:15
schestowitzThey attacked himMay 16 19:15
schestowitzUnder my nameMay 16 19:15
schestowitzNo wonder he got mad at meMay 16 19:15
schestowitzPJ just stopped commenting in public cause of thatMay 16 19:16
schestowitzI will do tooMay 16 19:16
twittercreating fights between natural allies is part of the Slog.May 16 19:16
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twitterI'm not sure Byfield was ever an ally because I'm not sure he believes in software freedom.May 16 19:16
twitterSo, if you quit commenting in public places and Boycott Novell is shut down, you will be completely silenced.May 16 19:17
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twitterWhat sites have reasonable user verification?May 16 19:17
schestowitzNot manyMay 16 19:18
twitterIs BN itself protected against the same thing?  I don't think so.May 16 19:18
schestowitzThe issue is, people can create new accountsMay 16 19:18
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 19:18
schestowitzSo even in sites where I am registered there's no verificationMay 16 19:18
twitterrightMay 16 19:18
twitternew accounts with the same nameMay 16 19:18
schestowitzYesMay 16 19:18
schestowitzOt 0s for 1sMay 16 19:18
twitterso you have the choice of silence or abuseMay 16 19:18
schestowitzHappened in DiggMay 16 19:18
schestowitzDigg shot down 4 imposters of mineMay 16 19:19
twitterthe other option is to bring the abusers to justiceMay 16 19:19
*amd-linux (n=cwolf@dslb-088-067-008-000.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 19:19
schestowitzAnyway, I stopped commenting thereMay 16 19:19
schestowitztwitter: good luck seeking justiceMay 16 19:19
schestowitzIt's the lawyer 'tax system'May 16 19:19
twitterIf you give up on justice, you might as well start using windows tomorrow.May 16 19:19
twitterThe trolls will continue to impersonate you.May 16 19:20
twitterThe difference will be that your useful voice is no longer heard, which was the trolls intention in the first placeMay 16 19:20
twitterThe personal attacks are just part of that effort.  The goal is to shut you up.May 16 19:21
schestowitzI will comment in BNMay 16 19:21
schestowitzJust not in other sitesMay 16 19:21
schestowitzThat's what Groklaw decided to do some years agoMay 16 19:21
schestowitzI sometimes see a "PJ" commentingMay 16 19:21
schestowitzIt's never herMay 16 19:21
twitterM$ would like to ruin your personal life but only because of your writing.May 16 19:21
schestowitzI show this to herMay 16 19:21
amd-linuxhello thereMay 16 19:22
*_boo_ has quit ()May 16 19:22
amd-linuxplease excuse me if am the 5th to askMay 16 19:22
Balrogtwitter: http://lists.clickers.org/linuxsig/index.html doesn't work anymoreMay 16 19:22
amd-linuxbut what happened to BNMay 16 19:22
zer0c00l"Boycott Novell has Outgrown Surpass Hosting"May 16 19:22
amd-linuxDDOSed?May 16 19:22
Balrogyes, what happened?!? was down yesterdayMay 16 19:22
zer0c00l"May 16 19:23
zer0c00lSorry for the inconvenience, we have to find a bigger server, no ETA yet. You can join the BN community in IRC chat in #boycottnovell on FreeNode. "May 16 19:23
amd-linuxI tried to comment and boomMay 16 19:23
Balrogyour disk went full?May 16 19:23
twitterbarlog, where do I link to that?May 16 19:23
Balrogon your slashdot.org/~twitter pageMay 16 19:23
Balrogright by 'no email available'May 16 19:23
twitterah.May 16 19:23
amd-linuxI recommend to host it on Google or Amazon or maybe AkamaiMay 16 19:25
amd-linuxif they can not handle BN traffic, nobody can :-)May 16 19:25
schestowitzamd-linux: we have somethingMay 16 19:27
schestowitzI wait for tessier nowMay 16 19:27
schestowitzBeen asleep for like 9 hours (??)May 16 19:28
amd-linuxroy you sure that you did not DDOSed?May 16 19:28
schestowitzI think I wasMay 16 19:28
amd-linuxI mean I witnessed live when the site went downMay 16 19:28
schestowitzBut the host doesn't seem to careMay 16 19:28
schestowitzThey want to sell dedicatedMay 16 19:28
tessierschestowitz: morning!May 16 19:28
amd-linuxand it seams strange that this happened during minutesMay 16 19:28
schestowitzHey!!!May 16 19:28
schestowitzThe man is back!May 16 19:28
schestowitzPhew :-)May 16 19:28
tessierWe ready to rock and roll?May 16 19:28
schestowitzYESMay 16 19:28
tessierCopy finished?May 16 19:28
schestowitzI have the CMS in placeMay 16 19:29
schestowitzYes, all the code it thereMay 16 19:29
schestowitzAnd the DBsMay 16 19:29
tessierYou loaded the dbs?May 16 19:29
schestowitzShane will pass me the newer DBs later to overwriteMay 16 19:29
schestowitzNot yetMay 16 19:29
schestowitzYou got GUIs for it?May 16 19:29
schestowitz[boycottn@mail ~]$ ls *.sqlMay 16 19:29
schestowitzwiki.sql  wrdp1.sqlMay 16 19:29
tessierNot sure what GUIs would be involved. Let me take a look at what you have..May 16 19:29
schestowitzI just need to put them two on the systemMay 16 19:30
schestowitzboycottn_wiki and  boycott_wrdp1May 16 19:30
schestowitzThen I can connect with my usernames, which I suppose we need to put there too somewhereMay 16 19:31
twitter:)May 16 19:31
schestowitzAs soon as it's done and it's just about running, I'll change DNSMay 16 19:31
schestowitzMay take hours to take effect depending on locationMay 16 19:32
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schestowitzwb, _Hicham_ May 16 19:32
tessierI am loading up the data manuallyMay 16 19:32
_Hicham_Hi schestowitz!May 16 19:33
schestowitzexcellentMay 16 19:33
schestowitz_Hicham_: The sysadmin of BN is backMay 16 19:33
tessierWiki is already loaded, wordpress loading now...May 16 19:33
schestowitzCool.May 16 19:33
tessierok, wordpress is done...May 16 19:33
schestowitzWe need users on the DB, right?May 16 19:34
schestowitzPMMay 16 19:34
tessierI have already created a boycottn user on the dbMay 16 19:36
schestowitz:-)May 16 19:37
schestowitzI just use the existing accountsMay 16 19:37
tessierOk, I set up the db accounts like you pm'dMay 16 19:40
tessierNow what?May 16 19:40
schestowitzWhat IP to connect to?May 16 19:41
tessierI think we need to tell apache about your virtual host.May 16 19:41
tessierDo you have an apache config somewhere I can look at?May 16 19:41
schestowitz(to test it? public html has the code)May 16 19:41
schestowitzmaybe in ~/etc?May 16 19:41
tessierok, let me just create a virtualhost in apache pointing at your public_html and see what happens...May 16 19:41
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schestowitzThanks!May 16 19:41
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tessierah-hah...now we're getting somewhere.May 16 19:45
tessierYour PHP installation appears to be missing the MySQL extension which is required by WordPress.Connection closed by foreign host.May 16 19:45
tessierLet me just find whatever that thing is...May 16 19:45
tessierphp-mysql.x86_64 must be it...May 16 19:46
schestowitz:-)May 16 19:46
_Hicham_1what distro are u running on the server?May 16 19:47
_Hicham_1CentOS?May 16 19:47
schestowitzSUSE :-)May 16 19:47
schestowitzNo, I'm kidding, though that would be ironic.May 16 19:47
schestowitzBoycott Novell... powered by... Novell.May 16 19:48
_Hicham_1hahahahahahahahahhaahhaaahahahahaMay 16 19:48
_Hicham_1:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-DMay 16 19:48
*_Hicham_1 is now known as _Hicham_May 16 19:48
_Hicham_that would be really greatMay 16 19:48
_Hicham_:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-DMay 16 19:48
schestowitzNaaa...May 16 19:49
schestowitzThey might send us a 'bad' patch .;-)May 16 19:49
_Hicham_so that you won't compile anymoreMay 16 19:49
schestowitzIt turns out some Red Hat execs read BBMay 16 19:49
schestowitz*BNMay 16 19:49
twitteror they might selectively break things, censorshipMay 16 19:49
twitterbe carefulMay 16 19:49
_Hicham_Moonlight have been refused even in rpmfusionMay 16 19:50
schestowitzgnote is in Debian todayMay 16 19:50
twitterBN is a great resource, Roy, you should be proud of yourselfMay 16 19:50
_Hicham_moonlight in DebianMay 16 19:50
tessierI hate mysql permissionsMay 16 19:51
tessierI can never get it right the first time...May 16 19:51
schestowitzNo pressure, it's a one time effort this thing :-)May 16 19:52
tessierindeedMay 16 19:53
_Hicham_thanks tessier for the good workMay 16 19:54
schestowitzI'm drafting over 20 new postsMay 16 19:54
schestowitzVery great some of themMay 16 19:54
zer0c00lM$ wants to ban: memcpy() http://blogs.msdn.com/sdl/archive/2009/05/14/please-join-me-in-welcoming-memcpy-to-the-sdl-rogues-gallery.aspxMay 16 19:56
Balrogzer0c00l: it was on /.May 16 19:56
Balrogthey say use memcpy_sMay 16 19:56
Balrog()May 16 19:56
zer0c00lwhats the difference between the two?May 16 19:57
Balrogmemcpy_s requires the size of the destination buffer to be specifiedMay 16 19:58
zer0c00loh okMay 16 19:58
Balrogbut I don't know if it's standard cMay 16 19:58
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_Hicham_you can just disable MSVC deprecation warnings with a compiler directiveMay 16 20:01
_Hicham_or inside the source codeMay 16 20:01
tessierbanning memcpy is not a bad ideaMay 16 20:01
Balrogyes, but glibc doesn't have memcpy_s AFAIKMay 16 20:01
_Hicham_#pragma warning(disable , ${warning_number))May 16 20:01
tessierschestowitz: I gotta run now. The server we are working on has some schedule maintenance today and I have to meet someone at the datacenter in 45 minutes. Then the server will be up and down for a couple hours. Then I will be back and finish the setup.May 16 20:01
tessierAll I should need to do is get the db access working and we should be all set.May 16 20:02
schestowitzIn 2 hours?May 16 20:02
schestowitz:-)May 16 20:02
schestowitzAny IP yet?May 16 20:02
schestowitzFor DNSMay 16 20:02
schestowitzThe sooner we change it, the betterMay 16 20:02
tessierYes.  216.105.40.113May 16 20:02
schestowitz:-)May 16 20:02
tessierGo ahead and put that in and let it begin to propagateMay 16 20:02
schestowitzThanksMay 16 20:02
tessierSee you in a whileMay 16 20:02
schestowitzHave funMay 16 20:03
_Hicham_can't wordpress fix db access?May 16 20:03
schestowitz_Hicham_: it's a settings thingMay 16 20:04
_Hicham_then login to phpmyadmin and do itMay 16 20:05
schestowitzThe sooner we change DNS, the better.I'm doing it now.  It'll hopefully work shortly (with an old DB).May 16 20:05
schestowitzLater I'll slide in the latest DBMay 16 20:05
trmancoit's still suspendedMay 16 20:06
schestowitzYesMay 16 20:06
schestowitzBy designedMay 16 20:06
schestowitz*designMay 16 20:06
trmancohmm, okMay 16 20:07
zer0c00lLOL http://saveie6.com/May 16 20:20
zer0c00lwho own that siteMay 16 20:20
schestowitzUse betterWHOISMay 16 20:20
schestowitzPaste the resultsMay 16 20:20
schestowitzThere's another one I'm gonna write about in BNMay 16 20:21
schestowitzMS has shills it hires to create fake grassroots sites (AstroTurf)May 16 20:21
schestowitzLike ReleaseWindows7NowMay 16 20:21
schestowitzAnd all sorts of pro-sw patents sitesMay 16 20:21
Balrogzer0c00l: "SaveIE6.com was put together as an April Fool’s joke by the uptime monitoring service Pingdom."May 16 20:21
zer0c00l" SaveIE6.com was put together as an April Fool’s joke by the uptime monitoring service Pingdom. Due to the tremendous interest it has received we have decided to keep this site up and running. Thanks everyone for the great feedback and for enjoying the irony!"May 16 20:22
zer0c00lyeahMay 16 20:22
zer0c00llolMay 16 20:22
schestowitzTo change DNS we need to configure apache first... May 16 20:24
schestowitz> godaddy says invalid tld - does this ip resolve to any name?  when it's going, should i point boycottlinspire and boycottxandros to the same dns server?May 16 20:25
schestowitzI think this should be possible, yes? We still configures it.. done by midnight hopefully.May 16 20:26
schestowitzAlso, if possible, we need the latest DBs off the old server. I have old copies (4 days ago) loaded up. Need to overwrite them ASAP.May 16 20:26
_Hicham_do u plan to begin boycottlinspire and boycottxandros?May 16 20:26
schestowitzNopeMay 16 20:27
schestowitzThey redirectMay 16 20:27
trmancololMay 16 20:28
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_boo_lolMay 16 20:32
_boo_people do homework if it's about programmingMay 16 20:32
_boo_and i can solve anything with c++May 16 20:32
amd-linuxanything?May 16 20:33
_boo_like you won't find a problem that can't be solved with c++ for mehMay 16 20:33
amd-linuxplease make that I have a million now with C++May 16 20:33
amd-linuxEuro, plsMay 16 20:33
_boo_is c++ capable of it?May 16 20:33
_boo_u just take c++ standard into accountMay 16 20:34
amd-linuxARE YOU capable of it ? C++ is.... :-)May 16 20:34
_boo_and don't take any platformMay 16 20:34
_boo_into considerationMay 16 20:34
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_boo_so?May 16 20:34
_boo_no platformsMay 16 20:34
_boo_just c++May 16 20:34
_boo_your problem?May 16 20:34
_boo_amd-linux, i can find a way for you to get 1m$May 16 20:35
_boo_but as long as you didn't define it legalMay 16 20:36
_boo_...May 16 20:36
*schestowitz passing DNS now...May 16 20:36
_boo_reallyMay 16 20:39
amd-linuxYEss yes yes please how? ;-)May 16 20:40
amd-linuxbut pls - in C++ :-)May 16 20:40
schestowitzI hate godaddy, but no choiceMay 16 20:43
amd-linuxso you now got a dedicated system?May 16 20:44
schestowitzProgress:May 16 20:45
schestowitzamd-linux: sort ofMay 16 20:45
schestowitzDedicated support :-)May 16 20:45
amd-linuxlol :-)May 16 20:45
schestowitz===May 16 20:45
schestowitz> i'm still waiting on surpass to unsuspend the account, my reseller credsMay 16 20:45
schestowitz> won't do it.  i've left 3 unanswered updates to the ticket on theirMay 16 20:45
schestowitz> helpdesk.May 16 20:45
schestowitzGood. At least you pressure them :-)May 16 20:45
schestowitz May 16 20:45
schestowitzIf only you get hold of backups, I'll pass you the SSH details so that you can drop the files there for loading.May 16 20:45
schestowitz> after you've got everything copied, I'm dumping these people, then willMay 16 20:45
schestowitz> get a new host and re-invent the whole lot of my sites that haveMay 16 20:45
schestowitz> whithered away due to lack of maintenance.May 16 20:45
schestowitz> May 16 20:45
schestowitz> I'd like to flip these domains over to your control, do you have aMay 16 20:45
schestowitz> godaddy account?  registrar to registrar is a pain, pushing at godaddyMay 16 20:45
schestowitz> is easy...May 16 20:45
schestowitzI'll create an account.May 16 20:45
schestowitzDone.May 16 20:45
schestowitz    *  User Name: Roy SchestowitzMay 16 20:45
schestowitz    * Customer Number: 28125463 May 16 20:45
schestowitzUsername: schestowitzMay 16 20:45
schestowitz:-)May 16 20:45
schestowitz===May 16 20:45
schestowitzThey want to pressure us to buy dedicatedMay 16 20:45
schestowitzWe leaveMay 16 20:46
schestowitzThey make flase promosesMay 16 20:46
schestowitzFed up with themMay 16 20:46
schestowitzThey promise up to 500gb/month, but half of this is "too much"May 16 20:46
schestowitzWe only use like 30% of the disk quote tooMay 16 20:46
amd-linuxdid you check European offers? I think for less than 100 Euros / monthMay 16 20:48
amd-linuxyou can laready get unlimited bandwith and root serverMay 16 20:48
*amarsh04__ is now known as amarsh04May 16 20:48
amd-linuxok, not really unlimited as the cut down 100 Mbit to 10 MBit after a gfew TByteMay 16 20:48
amd-linuxusuallyMay 16 20:49
amd-linuxthis i.e looks interesting: http://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix/May 16 20:50
amd-linuxand they are no resellerMay 16 20:50
schestowitzamd-linux: I was gonna do it with my hostMay 16 20:50
schestowitzBut a fellow BNer offered his good serverMay 16 20:50
schestowitzco-locationMay 16 20:51
schestowitzOn my host I run http://othellomaster.com/ http://iuron.com/ and http://schestowitz.com/May 16 20:51
amd-linuxok then, I just wanted to sell an AMD server ;-)May 16 20:51
amd-linuxkidding...May 16 20:52
schestowitzHeheMay 16 20:52
schestowitzYou're affiliated?May 16 20:52
schestowitzThey should make a new labelMay 16 20:52
schestowitzLike "Intel inside"May 16 20:52
schestowitzBut oppositeMay 16 20:53
schestowitzSomething likeMay 16 20:53
schestowitz"Intel safe"May 16 20:53
amd-linuxno, of course not, except that I ahm prefer AMD technology ;-)May 16 20:53
schestowitzAs in "Dolphin safe"May 16 20:53
*schestowitz on an AMD box (dual)May 16 20:53
amd-linuxgood!May 16 20:53
amd-linuxok gotta go hope to see BN up and running tomorrow... good luck!May 16 20:54
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MinceRand amd should let the kernel devs include a full-featured driver for their gpu-s in the kernelMay 16 20:55
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_boo_omg... it's os easy to get banned in c++May 16 21:05
_boo_##C++May 16 21:05
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_boo_it's quite enough to ask anything relatiedMay 16 21:05
_boo_relatedMay 16 21:05
_boo_and insist on answering while getting rid of stupid answersMay 16 21:06
_boo_c++ is just a trash channelMay 16 21:07
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Omar871schestowitz: What's the hosting website on which you're running BN?May 16 21:13
BalrogOmar871: BN should be back up within a day or twoMay 16 21:14
Balroghopefully tomorrowMay 16 21:14
Omar871hopefully, but I was just curious>May 16 21:14
Omar871.May 16 21:14
schestowitzOmar871: it's dimeHostMay 16 21:19
schestowitzWe're dumping themMay 16 21:19
Omar871schestowitz: Exactly, they seem very bad.May 16 21:20
schestowitzThe BN community will seize full control of hostingMay 16 21:20
schestowitzOmar871: it's like I'm afraid to make Slashdot with themMay 16 21:21
Omar871Why not going for Dreamhost?May 16 21:21
schestowitzSpending outs setting up CDNs and stuff.May 16 21:21
schestowitzOmar871: never mind, we made a choice alreadyMay 16 21:21
schestowitzWaiting for tessier to get backMay 16 21:21
schestowitzThey have just taken their server/s downMay 16 21:21
Omar871schestowitz: Great.May 16 21:21
Balrogwhat's the new host?May 16 21:21
schestowitzSan DiegoMay 16 21:21
schestowitzPrivateMay 16 21:22
Balrogahh cool.May 16 21:22
Balrogmore expensive?May 16 21:22
schestowitzWe have the admin here in  IRC evenMay 16 21:22
Omar871schestowitz: That's great.May 16 21:22
schestowitzBalrog: I'll pass him all the ad revenueMay 16 21:22
schestowitzWhich is meager anywayMay 16 21:22
Balrogok :)May 16 21:22
schestowitzI have AdsenseMay 16 21:23
schestowitzThey can't  allow you to block MS adsMay 16 21:23
schestowitzEven in MS-criticial sitesMay 16 21:23
schestowitzYou just can't block itMay 16 21:23
Balrogschestowitz: explainMay 16 21:23
schestowitzIt's context-based and they have many distrib' partnerMay 16 21:23
schestowitz*nersMay 16 21:23
schestowitzWe will have a new ad thingMay 16 21:23
schestowitzNew companyMay 16 21:23
schestowitzFS onlyMay 16 21:23
schestowitzEndorsed by the FSFMay 16 21:23
schestowitzFOSS ads for FOSS sitesMay 16 21:23
schestowitzLWN uses them, I thinkMay 16 21:24
schestowitzSo far I think that ads covered Shane's hosting billsMay 16 21:24
schestowitzSo we're at the point of sustainability only for equipment, not peopleMay 16 21:24
DaemonFCschestowitz: Can't you just frame them with a thingMay 16 21:25
DaemonFCsays "Don't click this!!!!"May 16 21:25
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_boo_lol, it's so easy to get banned in a channelMay 16 21:30
_boo_you just gotta tell anything that's true XDMay 16 21:30
_boo_anything true is not tolerated nowadaysMay 16 21:31
_boo_even though people care about anything else toleranceMay 16 21:31
_boo_once you said anything true... you're banned XDMay 16 21:31
schestowitzWhich channel?May 16 21:33
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_boo_#c++ again XDMay 16 21:34
_boo_and i tried to discuss that in ##windows, so i got banned as wellMay 16 21:34
_boo_even though there was no talking at allMay 16 21:35
Balrog _boo_: what did you try to discuss?May 16 21:35
_boo_the last one thing that i tried to discuss is "what is foo"May 16 21:35
_boo_what foo meansMay 16 21:35
_boo_i got banned for datMay 16 21:35
_boo_'cause i was not able to find any sane answer on what's fooMay 16 21:36
_boo_and i like sanityMay 16 21:36
_boo_when it comes to programmingMay 16 21:36
_boo_i don't like sanity with drugs or anything relatedMay 16 21:36
trmancohttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/foo?r=75 _boo_May 16 21:37
_boo_but programming, physics and math are worth sanityMay 16 21:37
_boo_dude, i read alreadyMay 16 21:37
Balrog_boo_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FooMay 16 21:37
Balroghas a bit of infoMay 16 21:37
_boo_foo is kinda placeholderMay 16 21:37
Balrog"Foo is a metasyntactic variable used heavily in computer science to represent concepts abstractly and can be used to represent any part of a complicated system or idea including the data, variables, functions, and commands. Foo is commonly used with the metasyntactic variables bar and foobar."May 16 21:37
_boo_yupMay 16 21:38
_boo_once i've been told that "foo" is a placeholderMay 16 21:38
_boo_i got bannedMay 16 21:38
_boo_##c++ is harsh realityMay 16 21:39
_boo_no, rather imaginationlandMay 16 21:39
_boo_in either case... you won't learn c++ from ##c++May 16 21:40
_boo_too many dumb people in thereMay 16 21:40
_boo_including opsMay 16 21:40
_boo_so i better go different wayMay 16 21:40
_boo_even though i know oopMay 16 21:41
_boo_and understand it quite alrightMay 16 21:41
schestowitzWeirdMay 16 21:51
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schestowitzI'm pretty sure Wikipedia used to say Ballmer (Steve) is the son of a swiss banker. Was his father a banker at all?May 16 21:52
schestowitzMaybe just slander in Wikipedia?May 16 21:52
taconeroy: strip the wiki and enable again the blogMay 16 21:53
DaemonFCMicrosoft has been self-editing WikipediaMay 16 21:54
BalrogDaemonFC: what names?May 16 21:54
DaemonFCthey removed the criticism section for SilverlightMay 16 21:54
DaemonFCI forget, I fixed it last weekMay 16 21:55
DaemonFCprobably been revertedMay 16 21:55
Balrogit's thereMay 16 21:55
DaemonFCyeah, I would be listed as an IP addressMay 16 21:55
Balrogthere are enough references to have it keptMay 16 21:55
schestowitztacone: it's not about the WikiMay 16 21:56
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Microsoft_Silverlight&diff=290047976&oldid=289495073May 16 21:56
DaemonFCthey changed itMay 16 21:56
schestowitzDaemonFC: they edity with agenciesMay 16 21:56
DaemonFCused to be called CriticismMay 16 21:56
schestowitzThey also bribe expertsMay 16 21:56
schestowitzThere are confessionsMay 16 21:56
DaemonFCbut I didn't feel like going back that farMay 16 21:56
schestowitzAnd we caught W-EMay 16 21:56
DaemonFCso I changed the nameMay 16 21:56
Balrogheh "Relationship to existing Web standards"May 16 21:56
taconeabout what ?May 16 21:56
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Balrogbut that IP also added '*[http://www.favbrowser.com/opera-passes-acid3-test-first-unofficially/ Opera Passes Acid3 Test First (Unofficially)]' to the acid3 pageMay 16 21:57
MinceRschestowitz: you could try viewing the history of the wikipedia articleMay 16 21:58
schestowitzMcirosoft has no Encarta anymorMay 16 21:58
schestowitzSo they have morw time and reason to vandalise WikipediaMay 16 21:58
schestowitzMinceR: I know. No time..May 16 21:58
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DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Microsoft_Silverlight&oldid=191425499#CriticismMay 16 22:00
DaemonFCtake that one for exampleMay 16 22:00
*tacone (n=irchon@151.82.39.154) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 22:01
taconei missed the last msgMay 16 22:01
schestowitzMine?May 16 22:02
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight#Criticism_and_legal_actionMay 16 22:02
DaemonFChehMay 16 22:02
DaemonFCput it back inMay 16 22:02
taconeone msg directed to me I guessMay 16 22:03
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_boo_mkay, so now i'm banned from #defocus XDMay 16 22:25
_boo_you only gotta be who you areMay 16 22:25
_boo_and it's enough to ban yaMay 16 22:26
_boo_i personally don't care of datMay 16 22:26
_boo_'cause i can joinMay 16 22:26
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_boo_but it pretty much shows how moronic ops in freenode areMay 16 22:27
ziggyfishschestowitz, any idea as to when the site will be back upMay 16 22:27
schestowitzAnnoying hostMay 16 22:27
schestowitzLatest: "I understand that Shane is the one with credentials for this account, but could you please unsuspended just cpanel so that I can pull backups from the server? This is very, very crucial. It feels like a hostage situation."May 16 22:27
schestowitzWe just need to latest snapshotMay 16 22:27
schestowitzThe new server will be running soon, then  DNS wapMay 16 22:28
schestowitzBut I can't publish new post unless we load the very latest DBMay 16 22:28
ziggyfishoh, ok, coolMay 16 22:29
ziggyfishdidn't this happen the last time?May 16 22:29
schestowitzWhen?May 16 22:31
ziggyfishcan't remember could of been last year when you had all that trouble the serverMay 16 22:32
schestowitzLast year? I think not.May 16 22:35
schestowitzWe had other types of issuesMay 16 22:36
DaemonFCschestowitz: I was reading a thing this morningMay 16 22:36
ziggyfishoh, okMay 16 22:36
DaemonFCsaid that Microsoft was serving up spyware through Windows Live Messenger adsMay 16 22:36
DaemonFClast yearMay 16 22:36
DaemonFCby accidentMay 16 22:36
_boo_omg... that's weakMay 16 22:38
DaemonFChttp://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=38176May 16 22:39
DaemonFClmaoMay 16 22:39
schestowitzYesMay 16 22:39
schestowitzI rememberMay 16 22:39
DaemonFCerr 2007 I guessMay 16 22:39
DaemonFCwell what shocked me was Microsoft's response "Make sure Windows Defender is running"May 16 22:40
DaemonFCWindows Defender is ON by default in VistaMay 16 22:40
DaemonFCit missed itMay 16 22:40
DaemonFC:)May 16 22:40
_boo_lolMay 16 22:40
_boo_you better investigate what chrome and safari are doint with hddsMay 16 22:41
_boo_all of them actuallyMay 16 22:41
_boo_MUUUUUUUUUCH MORET DIFFERENTMay 16 22:41
DaemonFCproof?May 16 22:42
DaemonFCI like ChromeMay 16 22:42
_boo_you better get proofMay 16 22:42
_boo_'cause it it does traverse hddsMay 16 22:42
_boo_like safariMay 16 22:42
schestowitz"still no message from surpass..."May 16 22:42
schestowitzIt's almost as though they ignore usMay 16 22:42
schestowitzHostage with dataMay 16 22:43
_boo_who, schestowitz?May 16 22:43
schestowitzThe hostMay 16 22:43
schestowitzWe're dumping themMay 16 22:43
_boo_the host...May 16 22:43
schestowitzBut we need access to the dataMay 16 22:43
_boo_and i told ya... you better don't run into me...May 16 22:43
_boo_and i'm not anywhere physically related to thatMay 16 22:44
_boo_i didn't enforce anything but you're getting troublesMay 16 22:45
DaemonFCaccording to my hard disk I/O monitorMay 16 22:45
DaemonFCChrome is not doing anything weirdMay 16 22:45
_boo_oh yeahMay 16 22:45
_boo_DaemonFC, they already sent everyhing neededMay 16 22:45
DaemonFCsent what?May 16 22:45
DaemonFCwhere is your proof?May 16 22:46
DaemonFCHow do I replicate the behavior?May 16 22:46
_boo_dudMay 16 22:46
_boo_eeMay 16 22:46
_boo_replicate the behaviour?May 16 22:46
DaemonFCChrome and Safari are both an order of magnitude better than FirefoxMay 16 22:46
DaemonFCin overall rendering performanceMay 16 22:46
DaemonFCand Firefox blows IE 8 out of the waterMay 16 22:47
_boo_they are not betterMay 16 22:47
DaemonFCI've already establighed the pecking order of web browser performanceMay 16 22:47
_boo_i just installed safariMay 16 22:47
_boo_yeah, i benchmarked itMay 16 22:47
_boo_it's better with 25%May 16 22:47
DaemonFChttp://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/surprise-the-fastest-browser-on-windows-is-in-fact/May 16 22:47
_boo_than ffMay 16 22:47
_boo_butMay 16 22:47
_boo_still there a problemMay 16 22:48
DaemonFCFirefox really isn't all that greatMay 16 22:48
_boo_it hangs computerMay 16 22:48
_boo_no matter whichMay 16 22:48
DaemonFCwhat will be interesting is when better browsers are made out of Chromium source codeMay 16 22:48
_boo_'cause it wants to use all of it's hdd bandwidhthMay 16 22:48
DaemonFCFirefox is much much harder on system resources than ChromeMay 16 22:49
_boo_DaemonFCMay 16 22:49
_boo_you don't get 1 thingMay 16 22:49
_boo_chrome and safari are trying to build up a speculative browsingMay 16 22:49
DaemonFCnot even counting extensions or it's own system resource leaksMay 16 22:49
DaemonFCopen the same 10 tabs in both of them side by sideMay 16 22:49
_boo_(in the best case)May 16 22:49
_boo_but with performing that they are still hanging the systemMay 16 22:50
_boo_almost hagningMay 16 22:50
DaemonFCnoMay 16 22:50
_boo_at least if 1 of your hdds is udmaMay 16 22:50
_boo_ide hddMay 16 22:50
Balrog_boo_: I sometimes have 40 tabsMay 16 22:51
_boo_it doesn't matterMay 16 22:51
Balrogand the system doesn't hangMay 16 22:51
_boo_i'm pretty sure that even 100 tabs won't matter a thingMay 16 22:51
_boo_200 for mehMay 16 22:51
DaemonFC51 megs with three tabs open is not badMay 16 22:51
_boo_it's e8500 @3.8ghzMay 16 22:51
DaemonFCFirefox usees more than that before it has loaded anythingMay 16 22:51
_boo_BUTMay 16 22:51
_boo_chrome and SAFARI are putting it downMay 16 22:52
_boo_due to IDE HDDMay 16 22:52
_boo_and i removed emMay 16 22:52
_boo_bothMay 16 22:52
DaemonFCwhy the hell does the type of disk matter?May 16 22:52
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DaemonFCChrome doesn't even have direct access to the diskMay 16 22:53
_boo_'cause of bus bandwidth?May 16 22:53
Balrogthen use UDMAMay 16 22:53
_boo_i useMay 16 22:53
_boo_and?May 16 22:53
DaemonFCand the bus bandwidth of IDE is still more than the platter is capable of sending over itMay 16 22:53
Balrogworks well for meMay 16 22:53
DaemonFCso it's not really going to help you a lotMay 16 22:53
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_boo_DaemonFC, it HANGEDMay 16 22:53
Balrog_boo_: what size hard drives do you have?May 16 22:53
Balrogold, small drives are SLOWMay 16 22:53
_boo_my primary is 160gb ide hddMay 16 22:54
_boo_and others are 2x200 gb sataMay 16 22:54
Balrogshould be okMay 16 22:54
_boo_+500gb sataMay 16 22:54
_boo_mkay?May 16 22:54
_boo_no! safari hangsMay 16 22:54
_boo_and chrome as wellMay 16 22:54
_boo_but what do they do with itMay 16 22:55
Balrogthen something is messed up with your systemMay 16 22:55
Balrogmaybe flashMay 16 22:55
_boo_noMay 16 22:55
_boo_flash is 10May 16 22:55
_boo_dudeMay 16 22:55
_boo_you gotta understandMay 16 22:55
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_boo_that once corporation like that wan't infoMay 16 22:55
_boo_it gets itMay 16 22:55
_boo_wants*May 16 22:56
DaemonFCoh pleaseMay 16 22:56
_boo_yupMay 16 22:56
_boo_dudeMay 16 22:56
_boo_did you every google for dat?May 16 22:56
_boo_apple didn't put an answerMay 16 22:56
DaemonFCyou don't think they'd cause a scandal if they just started taking whatever they want?May 16 22:56
_boo_NONE AT ALLMay 16 22:56
MinceRgnMay 16 22:56
schestowitznnMay 16 22:56
schestowitzThe host is being a bastarcdMay 16 22:56
_boo_dudeMay 16 22:56
_boo_DaemonFCMay 16 22:56
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_boo_even ff was going to capture smth irrelevantMay 16 22:57
_boo_of it's needsMay 16 22:57
_boo_and they put a lame xcuse on thatMay 16 22:57
Balroganswer to what?May 16 22:57
_boo_to why they traverse the hdds?May 16 22:57
Balrogwhen do they do that?May 16 22:57
_boo_because a guy traced what ff was doingMay 16 22:58
taconeso, schestowitz, what's the problem with the website ?May 16 22:58
_boo_especially user dataMay 16 22:58
_boo_they put a lame excuse and everythin since that time stoppedMay 16 22:58
_boo_for chrome... noone even askedMay 16 22:59
_boo_and i don't even wanna be a beta tester of itMay 16 22:59
_boo_chrome just sucksMay 16 22:59
_boo_safari is only downloadableMay 16 23:00
_boo_not with ffMay 16 23:00
_boo_not konqMay 16 23:00
_boo_opera, ieMay 16 23:00
Balrog????????May 16 23:00
DaemonFCgodMay 16 23:00
_boo_i donwnloaded safari 4 with operaMay 16 23:00
DaemonFCAOL has bloated the shit out of Winamp :(May 16 23:00
_boo_only browser was capable ofMay 16 23:00
_boo_winamp is not even an optionMay 16 23:01
_boo_i use aimp2May 16 23:01
_boo_quite enough even for module tracker filesMay 16 23:01
_boo_and it's quite freeMay 16 23:02
_boo_and is capable of everything that winamp pro is capable ofMay 16 23:02
schestowitztacone: host says load is too muchMay 16 23:04
schestowitzI don't think there was a ddos attack, but who knows?May 16 23:04
schestowitzI'm still working on itMay 16 23:04
schestowitzPITAMay 16 23:04
taconeschestowitz: strip the wikiMay 16 23:04
_boo_schestowitz, you never know until you have logsMay 16 23:04
taconei told youMay 16 23:04
taconewordpress has cacheMay 16 23:05
taconemuch harder to ddossMay 16 23:05
_boo_...May 16 23:05
_boo_tacone, you just don't get what's attackMay 16 23:05
taconeschestowitz: when the wiki fell down, the blog was still visibleMay 16 23:05
_boo_even with cached everythingMay 16 23:05
_boo_you can lie downMay 16 23:05
schestowitztacone: doesn't matterMay 16 23:05
tacone_boo_: it's you that don't get. ddos is hard.May 16 23:05
schestowitztacone: blog was working briefly at nightMay 16 23:06
_boo_oh yeah... ddos is hardMay 16 23:06
taconethey don't have a bot netMay 16 23:06
taconei guess it's just some script kiddie.May 16 23:06
taconeit's not easy to ddoss a site made up of static pagesMay 16 23:06
_boo_lolMay 16 23:06
_boo_you don't what even ddos meansMay 16 23:07
schestowitzHere is their report: http://pastebin.com/mc7edac8May 16 23:07
taconea bit easier to dos a site made of php scriptsMay 16 23:07
schestowitztacone: have a lookMay 16 23:07
taconeand easy if it uses dbMay 16 23:07
schestowitzSee if you can make sense of itMay 16 23:07
taconevery easy if it uses media wiki :PMay 16 23:07
taconeok, lookingMay 16 23:07
taconecan't you see ?May 16 23:08
taconedb is the main problemMay 16 23:08
_boo_tacone, ther are plenty of ways to ddosMay 16 23:08
taconeand by they way their attacking the index.php (very heavy since it's media wiki)May 16 23:08
_boo_and db is most likely not a problemMay 16 23:08
taconei think restoring the wordpress only is worth a tryMay 16 23:08
_boo_you're just looking at the weakest link that you think is weakestMay 16 23:09
taconesure they may find other waysMay 16 23:09
_boo_lolMay 16 23:09
taconebut i'm not sure they will.May 16 23:09
DaemonFChttp://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9373/83107893.pngMay 16 23:09
_boo_they most likely found another waysMay 16 23:09
_boo_'cause attack on pages is just effing lowMay 16 23:10
tacone_boo_: they didn't until now.May 16 23:10
schestowitzHow do you know it's DDOS?May 16 23:10
taconeyou told that.May 16 23:10
_boo_are comments generated dynamycally?May 16 23:10
taconewhat's the problem ? load ? then strip the wiki.May 16 23:11
taconewikimedia is heavyMay 16 23:11
_boo_schestowitzMay 16 23:11
tacone_boo_: he has the wp-supercache plugin. almost everything is saved as static pages.May 16 23:11
DaemonFChehMay 16 23:11
_boo_mkayMay 16 23:11
DaemonFCmy Winamp 3 Pro key still worksMay 16 23:11
DaemonFC:)May 16 23:11
schestowitztacone: it's not so simpleMay 16 23:11
schestowitzThe host wants to sell us dedicated nowMay 16 23:11
schestowitzWon't let us inMay 16 23:12
taconeschestowitz: i've been slashdotted on the article about that gartner reportMay 16 23:12
tacone8000 visites in a day. someone said my website went down as well :)May 16 23:12
taconeeven groaklaw linked me, even if in a subsectionMay 16 23:12
schestowitzYes, Groklaw is not that big for links anymoreMay 16 23:13
schestowitzStagnationMay 16 23:13
_boo_schestowitzMay 16 23:13
*DaemonFC misses the real Winamp when Justin Frankel owned NullsoftMay 16 23:14
_boo_just find what's dynamic in your websiteMay 16 23:14
tacone7084 visitsMay 16 23:14
schestowitzYeahMay 16 23:14
DaemonFCthat was one great piece of softwareMay 16 23:14
Balrogschestowitz: is the host /allowed/ to do that?May 16 23:14
_boo_it's a matter to attackMay 16 23:14
_boo_(dynamic)May 16 23:14
_boo_or if site is not too tolerable at connectionsMay 16 23:15
_boo_it could be just datMay 16 23:15
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taconeschestowitz: is the isp angry at you ?May 16 23:16
taconei guess i'm about to fallMay 16 23:16
_boo_tacone, there are plenty of things to exploitMay 16 23:17
schestowitzSomething iffy in http://www.godaddy.com/May 16 23:17
schestowitzSo slow sometimesMay 16 23:17
*goldenmile has quit ()May 16 23:17
schestowitzWon't work in places with FirefoxMay 16 23:17
schestowitzI'm trying OperaMay 16 23:17
DaemonFChttp://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9327/86759537.pngMay 16 23:17
schestowitzBalrog: NOMay 16 23:17
schestowitzThat's the thingMay 16 23:17
schestowitzThey're ignoring ShaneMay 16 23:17
schestowitzAnd with me they say Shane would need to speak to themMay 16 23:17
schestowitzI'm taking the domains ATMMay 16 23:17
Balrogthat's what I thought. This is Surpass Hosting right?May 16 23:18
Balrogand why can't Shane speak to them?May 16 23:18
schestowitzHe doesMay 16 23:18
schestowitz3 timesMay 16 23:18
schestowitz3 requestsMay 16 23:18
schestowitzNo repliesMay 16 23:18
Balrogphone?May 16 23:18
schestowitzI could try, but no authMay 16 23:19
Balrog:(May 16 23:19
schestowitzBut I'm waiting for tessierMay 16 23:19
Balrogwhy was this unplanned? what happened exactly? too much cpu load?May 16 23:19
schestowitzWe can still put back the siteMay 16 23:19
schestowitzBalrog: seems so, yeah.May 16 23:19
schestowitzAt first I suspected DDOSMay 16 23:20
Balrogyou have to be careful with stuff like thatMay 16 23:20
schestowitzGadaddy technical issueMay 16 23:20
schestowitzGahMay 16 23:20
DaemonFCschestowitz: Just don't use GoDaddy :PMay 16 23:20
DaemonFCbunch of crooksMay 16 23:21
schestowitzI know, I knowMay 16 23:21
schestowitzBut registrar 2 registrar is cumbersomeMay 16 23:21
BalrogDaemonFC: you're using GoDaddy for domain name, right?May 16 23:21
DaemonFCschestowitz: http://vpslink.com/vps-hosting/May 16 23:21
schestowitzSlutty girls in short shirt and pimp Bob ParsoMay 16 23:21
DaemonFCconsidered them?May 16 23:21
schestowitz*sonMay 16 23:21
schestowitzDaemonFC: too lateMay 16 23:21
DaemonFCthey can host you on whatever OS you likeMay 16 23:21
Balrogmeh, I saw 1and1 hosting doing similar adsMay 16 23:21
DaemonFCBalrog: No, I've heard horror stories and seen GoDaddy signing Spyware with a digital certificateMay 16 23:22
DaemonFCthey're pretty sleazyMay 16 23:22
Balrogwtf?May 16 23:22
DaemonFCyepMay 16 23:22
Balrogthat's illegal, I thinkMay 16 23:22
DaemonFCnoMay 16 23:22
DaemonFCanyone with $200 can get their shit signedMay 16 23:22
DaemonFCbeen that way for 10 years or moreMay 16 23:22
schestowitzI'm acccessing godaddy from two IPsMay 16 23:23
schestowitzno luckMay 16 23:23
DaemonFCVerisign has done it tooMay 16 23:23
schestowitzSame garbageMay 16 23:23
Balrogisn't that true with other companies as well?May 16 23:23
schestowitzArrghMay 16 23:23
Balrogschestowitz: what's the problem, exactly?May 16 23:23
schestowitzWell, first I move 3 domains to my possessionMay 16 23:23
DaemonFChttp://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/do-not-trust-godaddy-security-certificates/May 16 23:23
schestowitzSod it, I'll try laterMay 16 23:23
DaemonFC"And found that they are providing security certificate signing for spyware vendors, this helps people like the type behind the rogue anti-malware look more legitimate when they take you to their page asking you for your credit card number."May 16 23:23
schestowitzDaemonFC: can you check your response on their domain?May 16 23:24
schestowitzMaybe it's just the UKMay 16 23:25
DaemonFC?May 16 23:25
Balrogwhat's the exact problemMay 16 23:25
Balroghttp://www.godaddy.com works hereMay 16 23:25
DaemonFCyeahMay 16 23:26
DaemonFCI never said their website was downMay 16 23:26
DaemonFCunfortunatelyMay 16 23:26
taconei won't trust godaddy for nothingMay 16 23:29
schestowitzTrying to navigate takes agesMay 16 23:29
schestowitzAnd seems brokenMay 16 23:29
taconeif you don't need ssh access a 10$/year tophost.it domain may even be better :PMay 16 23:29
schestowitzEventually gives error pagesMay 16 23:30
Balrogtacone: ssh access is very usefulMay 16 23:30
taconeBalrog: i know what ssh serves forMay 16 23:31
taconeschestowitz: if you need a temporary low performing dreamhost account, i can try to give you a sub-accountMay 16 23:31
taconei can give you ssh, and a lot of slow bandwith ;-)May 16 23:32
schestowitztacone: that's OKMay 16 23:33
taconefor free. you would just need to switch the dns. so you can take the time to look for a good host.May 16 23:33
schestowitzWe have something like thatMay 16 23:33
taconeare you meaning you don't need that ?May 16 23:33
schestowitzYesMay 16 23:34
schestowitzWe have an account with SSHMay 16 23:34
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*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-130-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 23:40
ziggyfishschestowitz, can't you use SSH to get your dataMay 16 23:40
_Hicham_tessier is not back yet?May 16 23:40
ziggyfishinteresting? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1159916May 16 23:43
schestowitzziggyfish: no, no access to themMay 16 23:43
ziggyfishoh, okMay 16 23:45
ziggyfishMySQL?May 16 23:46
_Hicham_phpmyadmin?May 16 23:47
ziggyfishI was more thinking of this command: mysqldump "dbName" > data.sqlMay 16 23:50
ziggyfishthen SCPing the file to your computerMay 16 23:50
_Hicham_u can do this via phpmyadminMay 16 23:50
schestowitzStupid godaddyMay 16 23:51
schestowitzI have 3 domains being passed to me, but the GUI seems broken in the sense that I can't approve the transfer (it has no effect). I've tried from two IPs, one from Opera, one from Firefox.May 16 23:51
ziggyfishGodaddy?May 16 23:51
schestowitzYes, we seize control of the domainMay 16 23:52
ziggyfishschestowitz, interesting I've used godaddy a few times, and I never have a problemMay 16 23:52
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*shreddar (i=62f0385b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-76aa8d21c6770d94) has joined #boycottnovellMay 16 23:54
taconesorry, battery went outMay 16 23:55
taconeand will again in a short time :)May 16 23:55
shreddarThe site's still down.May 16 23:55
ziggyfishyesMay 16 23:55
shreddaris schestowitz awake now?May 16 23:55
ziggyfishyesMay 16 23:55
schestowitzYesMay 16 23:56
shreddarWhat happend?May 16 23:56
schestowitzNot so relaxed :-)May 16 23:56
schestowitzSeveral thingsMay 16 23:56
schestowitzThe host locks us out of the account, no access to the DBs and filesMay 16 23:56
schestowitzWe want to take that off the serverMay 16 23:57
schestowitzWe have another account being set up elsewhere.May 16 23:57
_Hicham_did u contact the host?May 16 23:57
taconenot even ssh ?May 16 23:57
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiNWw7h8cEUMay 16 23:57
DaemonFC:)May 16 23:57
_Hicham_DaemonFC is a Windows LoverMay 16 23:58
schestowitzI can't quite get the godaddy gui to work, so I contacted their support people.May 16 23:59
schestowitztacone: no ssh eitherMay 16 23:59
shreddarI hope you'll be able to get back all of those recoverd comes vs microsoft exibits (PDF's).May 16 23:59
schestowitzyeah yeah...May 16 23:59
schestowitzDon't worry. We just want to get the most recent snapshot of the site, that's allMay 16 23:59

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