| chips | in windows, you needed almost every free antivirus you could get | May 19 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| oiaohm | It allows distrobutions to do the signed exe ms brages about. | May 19 00:00 |
| _boo_ | chips | May 19 00:00 |
| tessier | Antivirus for Linux? Who would bother? | May 19 00:00 |
| _boo_ | oiaohm | May 19 00:00 |
| _boo_ | are you not completely wasted with weed? | May 19 00:01 |
| chips | no need of antivirus in linux for now | May 19 00:01 |
| oiaohm | Without needing to kernel patch. | May 19 00:01 |
| chips | agreed | May 19 00:01 |
| _boo_ | smth sane at last | May 19 00:01 |
| oiaohm | Problem is some companies have requirements that all OS's must be installed with a real-time scanner. | May 19 00:01 |
| oiaohm | So it a market access problem. | May 19 00:01 |
| _boo_ | what? | May 19 00:01 |
| _boo_ | which companies | May 19 00:02 |
| chips | but maybe in the future, so its best to have the capability to have the resident shield | May 19 00:02 |
| _boo_ | no, don't mention | May 19 00:02 |
| _boo_ | they're most likely bankrupts | May 19 00:02 |
| chips | anyway, Linus thinks its important and is working on it for the kernel | May 19 00:02 |
| _boo_ | resident shield XD | May 19 00:02 |
| oiaohm | Wine project also requested it. | May 19 00:02 |
| _boo_ | chips | May 19 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Jo Shields? | May 19 00:02 |
| _boo_ | did you try wall against the head? | May 19 00:03 |
| oiaohm | Wine does run some windows virus on Linux. | May 19 00:03 |
| _boo_ | chiiips | May 19 00:03 |
| oiaohm | Real-time scanning will be a great assist in preventing that. | May 19 00:03 |
| _boo_ | linus is not authoritative anymore | May 19 00:03 |
| _boo_ | for plenty of years | May 19 00:03 |
| _boo_ | he sold himself | May 19 00:03 |
| oiaohm | Linus still has final say on main line. | May 19 00:03 |
| _boo_ | in kernel, yup | May 19 00:04 |
| _boo_ | not in anything else | May 19 00:04 |
| oiaohm | He does not have final say on support line. | May 19 00:04 |
| chips | boo, that is what we are talking about, the kernel | May 19 00:04 |
| _boo_ | and he said gplv3 is not the one to go with | May 19 00:04 |
| oiaohm | Linus never has been the be all or end all. | May 19 00:04 |
| _boo_ | yeah, he's kinda paid nothing | May 19 00:04 |
| oiaohm | Linus is paid a lot. | May 19 00:05 |
| chips | Linux is the kernel guy, RMS was the man with the plan | May 19 00:05 |
| _boo_ | i mean, oiaohm | May 19 00:05 |
| chips | both are great people | May 19 00:05 |
| _boo_ | he's nothing | May 19 00:05 |
| _boo_ | and he's paid for dat | May 19 00:05 |
| oiaohm | Linux foundation pays Linus because there were a bidding war over him. | May 19 00:05 |
| oiaohm | RMS never has had a bidding war over him. | May 19 00:05 |
| chips | never said that | May 19 00:06 |
| _boo_ | it's just wrong | May 19 00:06 |
| _boo_ | to have war ova one developer | May 19 00:06 |
| _boo_ | even though he's a good oone | May 19 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Particularly when it got to 1 billion dollars a year +. | May 19 00:07 |
| _boo_ | lol | May 19 00:07 |
| oiaohm | Linus is also a chip designer. | May 19 00:07 |
| schestowitz | RMS man with a plan? | May 19 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Not Linus' | May 19 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Not Linus' plan | May 19 00:07 |
| _boo_ | cheap designer | May 19 00:07 |
| oiaohm | No chip designer. | May 19 00:07 |
| _boo_ | no cheap designer | May 19 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Linus wants market share | May 19 00:07 |
| chips | Well, RMS was mostly the force behind GNU | May 19 00:07 |
| schestowitz | RMS wants Freedom | May 19 00:07 |
| oiaohm | Linus has designed quite a few patented chip design bits. | May 19 00:08 |
| schestowitz | I spoke to Linus | May 19 00:08 |
| schestowitz | He still feels OK about proprietarisation of Linux | May 19 00:08 |
| _boo_ | you did | May 19 00:08 |
| oiaohm | Linux was ment to be linus hobby away from chip design. | May 19 00:08 |
| _boo_ | yeah | May 19 00:08 |
| _boo_ | because, schestowitz he's paid for dat | May 19 00:08 |
| oiaohm | Its funny how the world turns out some times. | May 19 00:08 |
| tessier | Linus designs chips? | May 19 00:08 |
| schestowitz | RMS's world domination: users dominate computers | May 19 00:08 |
| _boo_ | he designes cheap | May 19 00:09 |
| schestowitz | Linus' world domination: market share | May 19 00:09 |
| _boo_ | ñðóôç | May 19 00:09 |
| tessier | When it was started Linux was Linus' hobby during college when he didn't even have a jbo. | May 19 00:09 |
| tessier | job | May 19 00:09 |
| _boo_ | wtf | May 19 00:09 |
| schestowitz | True | May 19 00:09 |
| _boo_ | nice | May 19 00:09 |
| schestowitz | Then he got invited by Transmeta | May 19 00:09 |
| _boo_ | linus is all about money now | May 19 00:09 |
| _boo_ | forget about him already | May 19 00:09 |
| schestowitz | Just did his thing while they paid his bills so to speak | May 19 00:09 |
| _boo_ | there's no linus | May 19 00:09 |
| chips | we could be using herd as the kernek | May 19 00:09 |
| _boo_ | but linux prospers | May 19 00:10 |
| chips | *kernel | May 19 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Nope | May 19 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Hurd has poor hw support | May 19 00:10 |
| _boo_ | wtf | May 19 00:10 |
| schestowitz | And it's underdeveloped | May 19 00:10 |
| tessier | Hurd has had lots of problems since the beginning | May 19 00:10 |
| _boo_ | why do you even mention hurd | May 19 00:10 |
| chips | yes, herd is not there and may never be | May 19 00:10 |
| _boo_ | and it will never be | May 19 00:10 |
| tessier | I think the micro-kernel idea is interesting though. | May 19 00:10 |
| tessier | Hopefully someone will be more successful with it. | May 19 00:11 |
| _boo_ | like minix? | May 19 00:11 |
| schestowitz | They got funding | May 19 00:11 |
| _boo_ | lol | May 19 00:11 |
| schestowitz | Millions for research from EU | May 19 00:11 |
| _boo_ | schestowitz, look at their site | May 19 00:11 |
| _boo_ | and what is developed by whom | May 19 00:11 |
| _boo_ | and what do they need to develop | May 19 00:11 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmeta Linus design there Crusoe and worked on there other processes tessier. | May 19 00:11 |
| _boo_ | minix is not living | May 19 00:11 |
| schestowitz | They need funding, I think | May 19 00:11 |
| _boo_ | it's like in coma | May 19 00:11 |
| schestowitz | EU should have paid them | May 19 00:11 |
| oiaohm | Linus is a qualified chip designer. Not a qualified programmer. | May 19 00:12 |
| _boo_ | even with funding it's in coma | May 19 00:12 |
| tacone | eu.. grrr. | May 19 00:12 |
| _boo_ | oiaohm, it's just yet another designer | May 19 00:12 |
| _boo_ | but he has name and he is paid | May 19 00:12 |
| schestowitz | tacone: did you see the IDG article? | May 19 00:12 |
| schestowitz | Moody cited you | May 19 00:12 |
| _boo_ | for what he tells | May 19 00:12 |
| tacone | eu is clever by the way. they pay MS for their prison, then they accuse them of violating the antitrust and get the money back. | May 19 00:12 |
| tacone | schestowitz: no, which one ? | May 19 00:12 |
| schestowitz | tacone: yes, then MS uses this | May 19 00:12 |
| schestowitz | tacone: they uses EU use of Windows as a weapon against them | May 19 00:13 |
| _boo_ | lol | May 19 00:13 |
| tacone | uri ? | May 19 00:13 |
| schestowitz | As if to say, who are you to punish MS? | May 19 00:13 |
| _boo_ | so eu is slowly turning linux | May 19 00:13 |
| _boo_ | 'cause noone will like that state | May 19 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Way up in the lof, tacone | May 19 00:13 |
| chips | Speaking of the EU, wonder how big the fine for M$ is going be, and if they make M$ remove IE all of it. Seven would have been out by now, if not for the EU case. | May 19 00:13 |
| schestowitz | *log | May 19 00:13 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2195&blogid=14 | May 19 00:13 |
| _boo_ | chips, read about intel fine | May 19 00:13 |
| tacone | schestowitz: i was offline | May 19 00:13 |
| tacone | ok | May 19 00:13 |
| tacone | let me see | May 19 00:13 |
| oiaohm | EU does do anti-trust cases. | May 19 00:14 |
| oiaohm | Where USA has not been. | May 19 00:14 |
| _Goblin | Ive been a dubious of the EU meddling in anything...Roy, remember the fiasco with the utility companies? | May 19 00:14 |
| oiaohm | I really would love the USA to bite them. | May 19 00:14 |
| tacone | omg they linked me | May 19 00:14 |
| tacone | gartner will kill me now | May 19 00:14 |
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| oiaohm | Some how I think MS is setting up to move to india and places where anti-trust do not apply. | May 19 00:14 |
| tacone | linked by computerworld.com. pretty cool | May 19 00:15 |
| chips | Not going happen here in the USA oiaohm. Our gov is bought and paid for by M$. I posted links on that | May 19 00:15 |
| tacone | guess italian idg just sleepes on that | May 19 00:15 |
| oiaohm | chips: MS many not have the money to keep on paying soon. | May 19 00:16 |
| oiaohm | They are not cutting departments because they are doing well. | May 19 00:16 |
| chips | M$ only laidoff 1% of employees in India. It has 3000 employees last year in India. | May 19 00:16 |
| tacone | italian idg is so dumb. i used to work for them. | May 19 00:16 |
| _boo_ | what's idg | May 19 00:17 |
| chips | M$ is borrowing money now, as interest rates are dirt cheap | May 19 00:17 |
| _boo_ | why not shit cheap | May 19 00:17 |
| chips | a 30 year note with M$ will never be repaid | May 19 00:17 |
| _boo_ | and what's idg? | May 19 00:17 |
| _boo_ | nice | May 19 00:20 |
| _boo_ | there're a lot of idgs | May 19 00:20 |
| _boo_ | and you mention it like there's one special | May 19 00:20 |
| tacone | 12000 downloads of that pdf until today | May 19 00:20 |
| chips | M$ needs to money to keep buying back their stock, so Bill, Steve, and Paul, among others, can keep selling some and keep the price up | May 19 00:20 |
| tacone | from my site, i mean | May 19 00:20 |
| tacone | not bad. | May 19 00:20 |
| _boo_ | who's paul | May 19 00:21 |
| chips | paul allen | May 19 00:21 |
| tacone | battery going down. | May 19 00:21 |
| chips | co-founder of ms | May 19 00:21 |
| tacone | cu in some second | May 19 00:21 |
| _boo_ | paul allen | May 19 00:21 |
| _boo_ | he obviously came later than win1.03 | May 19 00:21 |
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| chips | no | May 19 00:22 |
| _boo_ | i don't remember such a name from almost anything | May 19 00:22 |
| _boo_ | but gotta learn now | May 19 00:22 |
| tacone_ | back. almost | May 19 00:22 |
| chips | why don't you google it boo? | May 19 00:22 |
| _boo_ | this name is sleezy | May 19 00:23 |
| _boo_ | i don't search for anything sleezy | May 19 00:23 |
| tacone_ | I'm not anymore on the -social channel | May 19 00:23 |
| _boo_ | lol | May 19 00:23 |
| _boo_ | which one | May 19 00:23 |
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| chips | The banks in the USA are now being run for the purpose of bonuses by those who run them. Microsoft is being run by Steve and Bill for the purpose of converting most of their stocks to cash. | May 19 00:25 |
| chips | as such M$ is not interested in taking any more chances on changing its windows os | May 19 00:26 |
| _boo_ | strange, right? | May 19 00:26 |
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| chips | gn | May 19 00:28 |
| schestowitz | tacone writing from the streets? | May 19 00:28 |
| _boo_ | you guys always run around, find any small misstep of someone just to conenience yourself | May 19 00:28 |
| schestowitz | tapping on phones? | May 19 00:28 |
| tacone | yeah | May 19 00:28 |
| schestowitz | hehe. Nice. | May 19 00:28 |
| _boo_ | but you already know what's going on | May 19 00:28 |
| tacone | I was on the pc before using the phone as a modem | May 19 00:29 |
| schestowitz | I'm uncompressing the backup now | May 19 00:29 |
| schestowitz | done | May 19 00:29 |
| schestowitz | untarring | May 19 00:29 |
| _boo_ | why don't you move a bit higher? | May 19 00:29 |
| tacone | but that way it goes out of battery even if attached to the cable | May 19 00:29 |
| tacone | so now I'm just tapping the phone | May 19 00:30 |
| schestowitz | It's the first time I have a host with SSH access. So good! | May 19 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Apart from small things I hosted myself | May 19 00:30 |
| tacone | ssh access rules | May 19 00:31 |
| _boo_ | no, you guys wanna pledge to the dirt: i won't leave ya | May 19 00:31 |
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| _boo_ | there's even more dirt at higher levels | May 19 00:32 |
| schestowitz | What's higher? | May 19 00:34 |
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| schestowitz | Burma's Suu Kyi faces trial over American intruder < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/14/aung-san-suu-kyi-faces-trial > | May 19 00:37 |
| chips | Linux Netbooks: Hit Microsoft where it ain't http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10243710-16.html | May 19 00:38 |
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| chips | Preston Gralla Microsoft's biggest blunder: Vista or Windows Me? http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsofts_biggest_blunder_vista_or_windows_me | May 19 00:39 |
| schestowitz | Change[ing] history: Obama's latest effort to conceal evidence of Bush era crimes < http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/05/13/photos/ > | May 19 00:39 |
| schestowitz | chips: oh no, don't feed that shill | May 19 00:39 |
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| chips | yes, he is a shill, but sometimes gets a small fact right. Better than ed Bott or George Oui | May 19 00:40 |
| schestowitz | RMS: "Obama should stop dawdling and nationalize the failed banks." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-mar-jun.html#18%20May%202009%20%28Nationalize%20the%20failed%20banks%29 | May 19 00:40 |
| tacone | hello again (sigh) | May 19 00:40 |
| schestowitz | Oiu? | May 19 00:41 |
| schestowitz | Oooh wee! | May 19 00:41 |
| schestowitz | Edd Baught | May 19 00:41 |
| chips | sorry for the spelling | May 19 00:41 |
| schestowitz | Ad Bought | May 19 00:41 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Bought, Ad | May 19 00:41 |
| chips | shillers | May 19 00:41 |
| chips | Microsoft IIS6 bug exposes sensitive files sans password http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/18/iis6_file_pilfering_bug/ | May 19 00:42 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: I have all the files now in /old_account_surpass/cpmove-boycottn | May 19 00:43 |
| chips | I posted on Goblins site about Joe Wilcox having to send his Mac laptop back to Apple, because its a loaner review | May 19 00:43 |
| chips | nice upgrading Roy | May 19 00:43 |
| chips | comment, not post I should say | May 19 00:43 |
| schestowitz | I make a backup of public_html just in case something goes wrong | May 19 00:45 |
| chips | so gaming console money finially took a hit in this depression in April by at least 17% | May 19 00:45 |
| chips | the 4th quarter of M$ in June is going be bad. Watch for more layoffs there | May 19 00:46 |
| chips | Sony reports $1 billion annual loss http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10240672-93.html | May 19 00:48 |
| chips | Sony also cut the price of the PS2 to $99 now | May 19 00:49 |
| schestowitz | tessier: we should probably swap with the database. From that point onwards I can handle it alone. | May 19 00:49 |
| schestowitz | boycottn@mail ~]$ pwd | May 19 00:49 |
| schestowitz | /home/boycottn | May 19 00:49 |
| schestowitz | [boycottn@mail ~]$ ls *.sql | May 19 00:49 |
| schestowitz | boycottn_wiki.sql boycottn_wrdp1.sql | May 19 00:49 |
| schestowitz | [boycottn@mail ~]$ | May 19 00:49 |
| schestowitz | These are the database we need to replace the old ones (preferably when making backup of those that are now being used, just in case) | May 19 00:50 |
| chips | M$ plan was to dump xbox360 and try to force Sony to abandon the PS3, by losing money on the console. dumping | May 19 00:51 |
| tacone | those are just dumps | May 19 00:51 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 19 00:53 |
| schestowitz | mysql.sql might help | May 19 00:55 |
| schestowitz | [boycottn@mail ~]$ ls *.sql -la | May 19 00:56 |
| schestowitz | -rw-r--r-- 1 boycottn boycottn 11720891 May 18 14:30 boycottn_wiki.sql | May 19 00:56 |
| schestowitz | -rw-r--r-- 1 boycottn boycottn 222203324 May 18 14:31 boycottn_wrdp1.sql | May 19 00:56 |
| schestowitz | -rw------- 1 boycottn boycottn 3636 May 18 17:09 mysql.sql | May 19 00:56 |
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| chips | Xbox Tester Reveals Several Interesting Things: Secret Xbox Suicide Command http://blog.seattlepi.com/digitaljoystick/archives/168594.asp?from=blog_last3 | May 19 00:57 |
| tacone | going to bed. | May 19 00:58 |
| chips | quote: "Yesterday I had a very long interesting conversation with a recently laid off Xbox 360 hardware/software tester who had some very interesting things to say to me. They are: Cool Xbox RROD illustration Linking to me 1st. Interesting Thing: There is a super secret kill-switch remote suicide self-destruct command that if Microsoft really wanted to the | May 19 00:58 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I heard | May 19 00:58 |
| tacone | good night. | May 19 00:59 |
| chips | interesting that M$ is putting this type of kill switch in xbox360 just like the Vista WGA | May 19 01:00 |
| chips | but more. Ok, gn Roy, this time I am really going | May 19 01:01 |
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| oiaohm | MS did not put that in chips | May 19 01:13 |
| oiaohm | IBM designed it chips | May 19 01:13 |
| oiaohm | It is part of the processor design the xbox 360 users. | May 19 01:13 |
| schestowitz | Yes, all of them | May 19 01:14 |
| schestowitz | Consoles | May 19 01:14 |
| schestowitz | But Microsoft piggybacked Sony'y resarch money | May 19 01:14 |
| oiaohm | PS3 and Wii don't have self destruct. | May 19 01:14 |
| schestowitz | Sony paid IBM for Cell | May 19 01:14 |
| oiaohm | Different chip designs. | May 19 01:15 |
| schestowitz | Then MS used that work to have IBM make similar chips, with Sony's investment | May 19 01:15 |
| schestowitz | According to WSJ IIRC | May 19 01:15 |
| oiaohm | MS wanted a mil grade chip. | May 19 01:15 |
| schestowitz | haha | May 19 01:15 |
| schestowitz | Miliatry grade | May 19 01:15 |
| schestowitz | Yes, one that will catch on fire gracefully | May 19 01:15 |
| oiaohm | Who said IBM gave them one. | May 19 01:15 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: now I swap home dirs | May 19 01:16 |
| schestowitz | In-place | May 19 01:16 |
| schestowitz | What do you recommend? | May 19 01:16 |
| oiaohm | IBM basically used xbox360 to test out there proto tech. | May 19 01:16 |
| schestowitz | Overwrite files? | May 19 01:16 |
| oiaohm | Ok why are you swaping home dirs. | May 19 01:16 |
| schestowitz | Or delete and put in? | May 19 01:16 |
| schestowitz | Old one and new one | May 19 01:16 |
| schestowitz | I think new one only has a few more files | May 19 01:17 |
| schestowitz | new images mainly | May 19 01:17 |
| schestowitz | OK to overwrite you reckon? | May 19 01:17 |
| oiaohm | I normally run a directory compare to find out what is different. | May 19 01:17 |
| oiaohm | Nothing is worse than someone access a half change file. | May 19 01:17 |
| schestowitz | /public_html/the_file.php (old) with /public_html/the_file.php (new, same) | May 19 01:17 |
| oiaohm | Basically only change what is different. | May 19 01:18 |
| oiaohm | Even then think about it. | May 19 01:18 |
| schestowitz | OK | May 19 01:18 |
| schestowitz | What do you use for dir compare? | May 19 01:18 |
| schestowitz | I don't want to disable the site while I do this | May 19 01:18 |
| oiaohm | Problem is I have not had to do this for a while last time I wrote a script. | May 19 01:19 |
| schestowitz | KDE has a nice tool for stuff like file to file comparison when overwriting | May 19 01:21 |
| schestowitz | OK | May 19 01:21 |
| schestowitz | I'm sure the diffs are just images | May 19 01:21 |
| schestowitz | I will not change code files | May 19 01:21 |
| schestowitz | Just the rest | May 19 01:22 |
| oiaohm | Basically a tool to tell you what is different is what you need. | May 19 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Then change the different. | May 19 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Problem is live site people could be accessing files that were already there. | May 19 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Remember live means you are not the only user. | May 19 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Reason why some web developers run a shadow. | May 19 01:25 |
| oiaohm | Ie 2 web site configs that they can switch between so they can do more extream changes without users noticing. | May 19 01:26 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know | May 19 01:26 |
| schestowitz | I don't change public_html yet | May 19 01:26 |
| schestowitz | Just dirs outside it | May 19 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Live you can add. | May 19 01:26 |
| schestowitz | like ~/mail | May 19 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Removing gets trouble sum. | May 19 01:27 |
| oiaohm | Overwrite gets trouble sum. | May 19 01:27 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know | May 19 01:27 |
| schestowitz | I will just need to add files | May 19 01:27 |
| schestowitz | Not delete | May 19 01:27 |
| oiaohm | Or overwrite. | May 19 01:28 |
| oiaohm | Because overwrite is about as bad as delete. | May 19 01:28 |
| oiaohm | Files have to be made non live before you overwrite them. | May 19 01:28 |
| schestowitz | http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/05/living-to-hack-and-getting-it-done.html | May 19 01:29 |
| schestowitz | Nice guy, helps kids | May 19 01:29 |
| schestowitz | Some dude on his blog pretended to be me | May 19 01:30 |
| schestowitz | Attacked the author under my name | May 19 01:30 |
| schestowitz | He told me: "I was recently let in on a little fact of life Roy. If the first comments on any given blog or article are from the Windoze fanboyz, trying to dispute your point, then you have indeed struck a nerve. I may be coming up in the world because it has been happening with greater regularity. The reason I believe I do not get the "hate" you do is because our project works with kids..." | May 19 01:30 |
| schestowitz | "validated by my city counsel and even mentioned on rush limbaugh's show. Even freakin' idiots know better than to attack a charity that serves kids. Well, Yonah is closely approaching that zone...I firmly believe he is the one that forged your name. Then again, it may be the guy in Boston you nailed a while back. Who is that putz>" | May 19 01:30 |
| schestowitz | Fake 'me': http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/05/thin-line-between-victim-and-idiot.html#comment-5756553526765963159 | May 19 01:32 |
| oiaohm | The problem we have had is people like me and Linuxlock who talk openign about linux problems have a bad habit of being called trolls. | May 19 01:33 |
| oiaohm | There is a difference a troll does not give solutions. | May 19 01:34 |
| oiaohm | More they try to say there is not light at the end of tunnel. | May 19 01:34 |
| oiaohm | I see a future for Linux. But sweeping problems under carpet slow that future coming. | May 19 01:35 |
| oiaohm | I don't see a long term future for MS. | May 19 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Problem is MS guys try to call you a troll schestowitz. Then try to use you rep to call others doing the right things trolls. | May 19 01:39 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know | May 19 01:39 |
| schestowitz | Happened before | May 19 01:39 |
| schestowitz | I wrote about it | May 19 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Then journalists would hate me | May 19 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Because of fakers | May 19 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Who insult them | May 19 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | May 19 01:41 |
| schestowitz | deny from 209.160.73.80 | May 19 01:41 |
| schestowitz | deny from 83.167.24.214 | May 19 01:41 |
| schestowitz | When the DDOS began I tried to block all sorts of IPs | May 19 01:41 |
| schestowitz | it was a pointless battle | May 19 01:41 |
| schestowitz | Just .htaccess vs DDOS | May 19 01:41 |
| oiaohm | Iptables are required. | May 19 01:42 |
| oiaohm | The run on responsive rules. | May 19 01:42 |
| oiaohm | Not static so attackers cannot get around them simply. | May 19 01:42 |
| oiaohm | Even squid with rules is more effective than .htaccess against DDOS | May 19 01:43 |
| oiaohm | Make sure you do a backup before enabling comments schestowitz. | May 19 01:43 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I have a plan | May 19 01:48 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: we use both | May 19 01:48 |
| schestowitz | Squid and iptables I think | May 19 01:48 |
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| tacone | sic | May 19 01:53 |
| tacone | back again | May 19 01:53 |
| tacone | anyone online ? | May 19 01:53 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 19 01:55 |
| schestowitz | I finished restoring home directory | May 19 01:55 |
| schestowitz | Now just need to swap DBs | May 19 01:55 |
| schestowitz | tessier is away though | May 19 01:55 |
| schestowitz | Home directory restored fully. Tomorrow I'll do the DB. We now have SSH access to our new server. No quotas | May 19 01:58 |
| schestowitz | OK, pictures restored. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/14/killing-software-patents/ | May 19 02:01 |
| |neighborlee| | schestowitz: as usual...when the debate hits too close to home..ubuntu staff members close things down: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1141986&page=8 | May 19 02:01 |
| |neighborlee| | schestowitz: and its even ON recurring discussions..where such things are meant to take place, apparantly not ? ;)) | May 19 02:01 |
| tacone | i'm just an idiot writing a mono post because a mono troll trolled me up | May 19 02:02 |
| tacone | and a lenghty one. | May 19 02:02 |
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| DaemonFC | heh | May 19 02:02 |
| |neighborlee| | tacone: hey we have to speak out...someone has to warn people about this mess | May 19 02:03 |
| DaemonFC | the lady at the gas station let me buy my pop with those free cigarette coupons | May 19 02:03 |
| tacone | hope to have it done for tomorrow evening. shame on them | May 19 02:03 |
| DaemonFC | sweet | May 19 02:03 |
| tacone | |neighborlee|: ??? | May 19 02:03 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | May 19 02:03 |
| tacone | this mess what ? we who have to speak out what about what ? | May 19 02:03 |
| schestowitz | All that's left now is for tessier to install the 'new' DBs, then we're all set | May 19 02:03 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Microsoft has stepped up their Windows Defender updates | May 19 02:03 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 02:03 |
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| |neighborlee| | tacone: well it sounded like you were espousing the virtues of taking on mono, though its painful because of the 'mono t rolls' which make life slighgly uncomfortable..did I miss something ? ;)) | May 19 02:04 |
| mib_rryhvw | Are we no longer allowed to post anonymously in Boycott Novell? | May 19 02:04 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Microsoft used to doo weekly updates for WD pattern files | May 19 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | they seem to be doing them every 2-3 days now | May 19 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | *do | May 19 02:05 |
| tacone | i'm not really a mono basher. but someone went beyond my moral limits | May 19 02:05 |
| |neighborlee| | tacone: fine.then we're on the same page. | May 19 02:05 |
| |neighborlee| | tacone: lets not split hairs. | May 19 02:05 |
| |neighborlee| | :) | May 19 02:05 |
| tacone | so i'll ask this nice group of mono supporter to work on mono more silently. | May 19 02:06 |
| DaemonFC | seems like Microsoft is fed up with all the crap hijacking Windows | May 19 02:06 |
| tacone | possibly hidden on a far island (with no internet connnection to the outer world) | May 19 02:06 |
| DaemonFC | and is actually maintaining their pattern files seriously now :P | May 19 02:06 |
| |neighborlee| | lol | May 19 02:06 |
| schestowitz | mib_rryhvw: it'll be back to normal soon | May 19 02:06 |
| schestowitz | We merge DBs, so no comments in the mean time | May 19 02:06 |
| mib_rryhvw | Thanks sches. | May 19 02:06 |
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| schestowitz | Nagios Founder Comments on Icinga Fork < http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/nagios_founder_comments_on_icinga_fork > | May 19 02:07 |
| tacone | i mean, I even made a Gnome Do article some time ago. but they fed me up. | May 19 02:07 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: What's your take on iMagic OS | May 19 02:07 |
| DaemonFC | do you figure it's a GPL violation? | May 19 02:07 |
| schestowitz | Probably | May 19 02:07 |
| schestowitz | Or just offensive | May 19 02:07 |
| tacone | if only they just cared to bring up clever arguments instead of mindless bashing other languages. | May 19 02:07 |
| DaemonFC | "Microsoft Compatible! | May 19 02:08 |
| DaemonFC | iMagic OS can now run almost every application create for a Microsoft Windows based Operating System!" | May 19 02:08 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: did you see this? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_osx_64bit&num=1 | May 19 02:08 |
| DaemonFC | where have we heard this before | May 19 02:08 |
| DaemonFC | Lindows? :) | May 19 02:08 |
| schestowitz | Why does Michael compare Apple and Linux on _APPLE_ hardware? | May 19 02:08 |
| DaemonFC | Linux should run fine on a Mac | May 19 02:09 |
| |neighborlee| | now yes. | May 19 02:09 |
| DaemonFC | those are more standardized than a PC | May 19 02:09 |
| schestowitz | He would need to compile everything including X for this plattform and refine and take advantage of all the features | May 19 02:09 |
| DaemonFC | simply cause there's only one company behind it | May 19 02:09 |
| DaemonFC | call it a fortunate side effect | May 19 02:09 |
| |neighborlee| | well I still think its sad that the CNR thing never took off..linux need ed something like download.com | May 19 02:10 |
| DaemonFC | only having to target a dozen models of Mac sounds easier than the infinite combinations of hardware on a PC | May 19 02:10 |
| |neighborlee| | I mean for all distros as it were..some place where they all converged..a united front. | May 19 02:10 |
| tacone | http://www.pcworld.com/article/165058/ubuntu_one.html | May 19 02:10 |
| |neighborlee| | or at least the major ones...? | May 19 02:10 |
| schestowitz | |neighborlee|: Xandros made nothng out of CNR? | May 19 02:10 |
| |neighborlee| | well, they had their own thing | May 19 02:11 |
| DaemonFC | CNR was always a joke | May 19 02:11 |
| |neighborlee| | xandros n etwork | May 19 02:11 |
| |neighborlee| | xandros | May 19 02:11 |
| |neighborlee| | it was not a joke | May 19 02:11 |
| DaemonFC | it was nothing but a dumbed down frontend to apt | May 19 02:11 |
| DaemonFC | anyone could have made it | May 19 02:11 |
| |neighborlee| | imnsho :)) | May 19 02:11 |
| schestowitz | (come to #boycottnovell-social if you talk about the attacks BTW) | May 19 02:11 |
| DaemonFC | if you want stupid, it's not hard to find or create your own | May 19 02:11 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 02:11 |
| |neighborlee| | but it was a nice interface to download and critique things..unlike boring synatpic | May 19 02:11 |
| |neighborlee| | aptic | May 19 02:11 |
| DaemonFC | I prefer Synaptic | May 19 02:12 |
| DaemonFC | but there's no reason they can't have both | May 19 02:12 |
| |neighborlee| | compare synaptic, to download.comn.its laughable. | May 19 02:12 |
| DaemonFC | hence the Add/Remove crapplet | May 19 02:12 |
| |neighborlee| | still crappy comparatively speaking | May 19 02:12 |
| DaemonFC | what's that, like 2 more megs? | May 19 02:12 |
| tacone | schestowitz: because Macosx runs only on Apple hardware | May 19 02:12 |
| tacone | no other easy way to compare them. | May 19 02:13 |
| *DaemonFC sets out to write an Add/Remove programs crapplet in C# | May 19 02:13 | |
| *DaemonFC integrates Tomboy into it | May 19 02:13 | |
| |neighborlee| | rofl | May 19 02:13 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 02:13 |
| schestowitz | tacone: true, let me think of an analogy | May 19 02:13 |
| schestowitz | Apple is the football team that does not have a car | May 19 02:13 |
| *DaemonFC makes sure it uses notify-OSD too | May 19 02:13 | |
| *tacone integrates Mono on a rocket | May 19 02:13 | |
| |neighborlee| | ha | May 19 02:13 |
| schestowitz | It only accepts home games | May 19 02:13 |
| *tacone launches the rocket to Mars | May 19 02:13 | |
| *|neighborlee| has quit ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net") | May 19 02:14 | |
| *tacone hears Mars people bitching | May 19 02:14 | |
| schestowitz | Strap Intel into that rocket | May 19 02:14 |
| oiaohm | Sean the speed compare before schestowitz. It will just keep on getting faster. | May 19 02:14 |
| schestowitz | Put Ballmer in the cockpit | May 19 02:14 |
| tacone | seems like MS just sent a PR to mars to talk about patents. | May 19 02:14 |
| DaemonFC | Why is wordpress still sending me notifications to my Gmail box? | May 19 02:15 |
| DaemonFC | ugggh | May 19 02:15 |
| schestowitz | tacone: did you see their latest PR on patents? | May 19 02:18 |
| schestowitz | Linux Foundation plays along. Yuck | May 19 02:18 |
| schestowitz | And there's another thing | May 19 02:18 |
| schestowitz | Which I'll post about tomorro | May 19 02:18 |
| schestowitz | Myhrvold (the MS troll) pays feds to bat for sw pats, apparently | May 19 02:19 |
| schestowitz | Disgusting | May 19 02:19 |
| tacone | no | May 19 02:20 |
| tacone | no | May 19 02:20 |
| tacone | urgh | May 19 02:20 |
| tacone | patents should be like bitches | May 19 02:21 |
| tacone | if you really go with them, at least hide it | May 19 02:21 |
| tacone | times are gone when proprietary and exclusive were positive adjectives | May 19 02:22 |
| DaemonFC | most companies use patents and copyrights | May 19 02:23 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not arguing for the practice, but why do people defend Mozilla for it and go after Microsoft? | May 19 02:23 |
| DaemonFC | or defend Google perhaps? | May 19 02:24 |
| DaemonFC | seems like either of them could cause or has caused a lot of damage by throwing their weight around | May 19 02:24 |
| DaemonFC | Mozilla is at that point now where they are so big that it wouldn't do anyone any good to fork their code anyway | May 19 02:25 |
| tacone | patents are like nuclear weapons | May 19 02:25 |
| tacone | if you have to seem good to people you can just say you're getting those to defend yourself. | May 19 02:25 |
| DaemonFC | Mozilla controls where Gecko is going | May 19 02:26 |
| DaemonFC | with or without source available | May 19 02:26 |
| schestowitz | http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/05/cctv-is-great-for-car-parks.html "One of the Great Lies of the Labour's surveillance society is that being watched - specifically by the greatest concentration of CCTV cameras in the world - makes us safer. Guess what - it doesn't.." | May 19 02:26 |
| DaemonFC | having open source just means that they win and everyone else loses | May 19 02:26 |
| DaemonFC | just like the same goes for MS and closed source | May 19 02:26 |
| schestowitz | tacone: Transparently Wrong - http://bit.ly/2THilK the EU thinks Microsoft's "commercial interests" trump public interest #opensource http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/1836721041 | May 19 02:26 |
| tacone | yeah, I saw the cwi article | May 19 02:27 |
| DaemonFC | I've always just said when people ask me what I think about MSIE, that Microsoft should just buy Mozilla | May 19 02:27 |
| tacone | err | May 19 02:27 |
| tacone | cwuk | May 19 02:27 |
| tacone | pretty cool | May 19 02:27 |
| schestowitz | WHO Members Fail To Finish Pandemic Flu Preparations < http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/2009/05/18/who-members-fail-to-finish-pandemic-flu-preparations/ > | May 19 02:27 |
| DaemonFC | you know Microsoft has the cash to just buy Mozilla and close them | May 19 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | what's stopping them? | May 19 02:28 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla | May 19 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | if I was MS I'd just buy Mozilla and Opera | May 19 02:28 |
| tacone | is mozilla publicly traded ? | May 19 02:28 |
| tacone | buy mozilla is not easy. google would step up | May 19 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | no I don't believe it is | May 19 02:29 |
| tacone | and then both would run right into anti trust. | May 19 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | but there has to be someone to dump a pile of cash on | May 19 02:29 |
| schestowitz | Is Danish Dying? < http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=965 > | May 19 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | or subvert it so that Firefox only works well on Windows | May 19 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | Mission Accomplished | May 19 02:29 |
| tacone | no it's not. if you try to buy something, another people will make a better offer | May 19 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | they've already done that | May 19 02:29 |
| schestowitz | Firefox can be forked to a lesser or greater degreee | May 19 02:30 |
| tacone | and buying mozilla was no sense before, as it hadn't all that market share | May 19 02:30 |
| tacone | now there's chromium. and safari for windows | May 19 02:30 |
| schestowitz | Would be bloacked | May 19 02:30 |
| schestowitz | Antitrust | May 19 02:30 |
| schestowitz | *blocked | May 19 02:30 |
| tacone | and it can be forked, right. but patents may prevent successful forking. | May 19 02:30 |
| schestowitz | Old Software Hogs Energy < http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/15/software-energy-enterprise-technology-cio-network-software.html?feed=rss_technology > | May 19 02:30 |
| DaemonFC | http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/7/72/User_Account_Control.png | May 19 02:30 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 02:31 |
| schestowitz | The other PR MS does today is to do with "interop" | May 19 02:34 |
| schestowitz | Laws That Could Save Journalism < http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/15/AR2009051503000_pf.html > Some papers are better off dead. it's Darwinian. | May 19 02:34 |
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| schestowitz | Harvard prof tells judge that P2P filesharing is "fair use" < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/harvard-prof-tells-judge-that-p2p-filesharing-is-fair-use.ars > | May 19 02:38 |
| *Balrog has quit () | May 19 02:39 | |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: you're on usenet | May 19 02:47 |
| schestowitz | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_thread/thread/3ed0feebcae0f88f# | May 19 02:48 |
| tacone | this post is too long. too much research. not my stuff :( | May 19 02:54 |
| tacone | disconnecting for a while. see you later if you're not asleep | May 19 02:55 |
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| schestowitz | gn | May 19 03:10 |
| schestowitz | When tessier gets back we'll swap DBs | May 19 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I just wrote about Product Activation :P | May 19 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/product-activation-the-proof-of-what-microsoft-is-doing-is-in-what-it-does/ | May 19 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | In effect, by having a documented system to bypass Product Activation that is moderately risky (think coat hanger abortion) to do at home, but scales well to millions of systems (this is how it was designed to work), Microsoft has effectively admitted that they will never stop these so-called “mass-counterfeiters” and has declared war lamer-by-lamer who tries to casually copy their Windows... | May 19 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | ...disc to use on a spare PC. | May 19 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | Method 2 essentially becomes “Why use the front door which is barricaded and garrisoned, when Microsoft has kindly left the service entrance unlocked and unguarded?” | May 19 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | Product Activation is therefore a way to get blood out of a turnip by making sure that you don’t buy that $300 Vista disc and dare to use it on two PCs, and it’s really pathetic that instead of making Windows better so that more people want to use it or think it’s worth paying for, Microsoft has hired a team to effectively “crack down on insurgents in door to door raids”. | May 19 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | their latest "exploit detector" is a nag screen | May 19 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't turn off any Vista features | May 19 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | not even Aero Glass | May 19 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | Ithink they're trying to pump Vista for a few more license sales | May 19 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | right before Windows 7 comes out | May 19 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 19 03:24 |
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| tacone | back again | May 19 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | http://blogs.msdn.com/wga/archive/2009/05/01/windows-7-rc-torrent-files-infected-with-trojan.aspx | May 19 03:31 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 19 03:31 |
| tacone | rofl-copter | May 19 03:33 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft releases this stuff | May 19 03:35 |
| DaemonFC | then the strain on their server causes them to be unresponsive | May 19 03:35 |
| DaemonFC | and they won't release an official torrent for political reasons | May 19 03:35 |
| DaemonFC | so people go to The Pirate Bay | May 19 03:35 |
| DaemonFC | what the hell do they expect? | May 19 03:35 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft could save a lot of money in bandwidth by using peer to peer to distribute their downloads | May 19 03:36 |
| DaemonFC | they don't do it because they don't want people to know what bittorrent or whatever is | May 19 03:36 |
| DaemonFC | so they pretend like it doesn't exist | May 19 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | and because all of a sudden they would have "legitimized" a P2P app | May 19 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | and subverted their partners fights against protocols :) | May 19 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.olpcnews.com/software/windows/nobody_buying_windows_xo_laptops.html | May 19 03:44 |
| DaemonFC | yay | May 19 03:45 |
| tacone | that's just not part of their corporate culture | May 19 03:45 |
| tacone | even communities weren't. it took a while for them to understand they needed some. | May 19 03:45 |
| DaemonFC | if I was in charge of Microsoft there'd be some huge changes | May 19 03:45 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 03:45 |
| DaemonFC | not necessarily jsut out of the goodness of my heart | May 19 03:46 |
| DaemonFC | but because some of this clamp down blame the user shit is just bad business | May 19 03:46 |
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| DaemonFC | hmmm | May 19 03:49 |
| DaemonFC | even if you can make a contrived version of XP that runs on the XO laptop | May 19 03:49 |
| oiaohm | Question is how much more staff will MS bleed before they wake up its not just the down turn why they are in trouble. | May 19 03:49 |
| DaemonFC | there's no upgrade patch | May 19 03:49 |
| DaemonFC | can you see them fucking with Windows 7 to get it to run on that? | May 19 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | roflcopter :P | May 19 03:50 |
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| oiaohm | XP on XO laptop was going to be giving to the countries for nothing. | May 19 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 19 03:50 |
| oiaohm | So its not a price thing. | May 19 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | more than what it's worth | May 19 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | good riddance | May 19 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 19 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | I mean...... | May 19 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | could you see Microsoft making a version of WINDOWS SEVEN | May 19 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | for the thing? | May 19 03:50 |
| oiaohm | Windows Seven Starter | May 19 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | do you think it would be possible to reduce Windows 7 in size to make it 20 times smaller | May 19 03:51 |
| oiaohm | Is ment to be for that market. | May 19 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | so that it would work? | May 19 03:51 |
| oiaohm | 3 applications at a time limit. | May 19 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | fuck that | May 19 03:51 |
| tacone | that's a nice way to limit hardware requirements also | May 19 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | try that on Americans, yeah, it's not going to fly | May 19 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | trust me | May 19 03:52 |
| oiaohm | They are also trying to get netbook makers to buy it. | May 19 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | that's what I mean | May 19 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | that's crippleware | May 19 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | even on low end hardware | May 19 03:52 |
| oiaohm | MS is going bonkers. | May 19 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | 3 apps at a time my ass | May 19 03:52 |
| tacone | it's that free ? | May 19 03:52 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | May 19 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | I have 9 apps open right now | May 19 03:52 |
| oiaohm | Problem for dell and the like. | May 19 03:53 |
| oiaohm | There need more than 3 apps for there offset crap. | May 19 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | How about they put it on a diet | May 19 03:53 |
| tacone | that will bring interesting developments | May 19 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | and make something that works well? | May 19 03:53 |
| tacone | they'll force oem to offer it | May 19 03:53 |
| tacone | stupid customers will buy the windows version | May 19 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, watch the returns skyrocket | May 19 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | when people get the CLOSE YOUR APPS bullshit | May 19 03:54 |
| oiaohm | Funny thing is a item like colinux appears as 1 app. | May 19 03:54 |
| tacone | and then the show begins | May 19 03:54 |
| tacone | that will be workarounded in a snap. | May 19 03:54 |
| oiaohm | Problem is lot of netbook OEMs dont' want to sell. | May 19 03:54 |
| DaemonFC | you really shouldn't have to patch over system files | May 19 03:54 |
| oiaohm | And basically are preparid to say to MS stuff off. | May 19 03:54 |
| DaemonFC | to uncripple the OS | May 19 03:54 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 03:54 |
| oiaohm | We don't need it and will use Linux. | May 19 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Users can buy windows full independant if they like. | May 19 03:55 |
| tacone | that will just get OEM even more angry at microsoft | May 19 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | I upgraded my mom's Garmin GPS unit | May 19 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Mind you bios makers are also pissed with MS. | May 19 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | cause she was going to replace it with a TomTom | May 19 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | I noticed Garmin uses FAT32 | May 19 03:56 |
| oiaohm | We are heading into a major show down. | May 19 03:56 |
| DaemonFC | but it runs Linux | May 19 03:56 |
| oiaohm | OEM BIOS makers and MS. | May 19 03:56 |
| oiaohm | Lot of BIOS makers are pissed with MS for providing a defective test suit so they produced BIOS that caused windows computers to play up. | May 19 03:57 |
| oiaohm | So had to put out firmware updates. | May 19 03:58 |
| oiaohm | Basically MS is pissing off everyone important to there existance | May 19 03:58 |
| tacone | since it controls about all the ecosystem, i'd say it's normal | May 19 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I noticed that bug in earlier leaked builds | May 19 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't report it though | May 19 04:00 |
| oiaohm | They have not got it yet tacone they don't any more. | May 19 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=software_development&articleId=9132738&taxonomyId=63&intsrc=kc_top | May 19 04:00 |
| tacone | yes they do. not completely of course | May 19 04:01 |
| tacone | but they can successfully racket almost everyone. | May 19 04:01 |
| tacone | that's why hardware companies don't love microsoft | May 19 04:01 |
| tacone | if you loose friendship with microsoft you loose discounts on Windows OEM | May 19 04:02 |
| tacone | therefore you loose competitivity and price margins | May 19 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE54I06W20090519 | May 19 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | Go Obama! | May 19 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | yay | May 19 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | May 19 04:02 |
| tacone | not to talk about Intel marriage | May 19 04:02 |
| tacone | less fuel, less wars. at least a bit | May 19 04:03 |
| DaemonFC | "Convenient though it would be if it were true, Mozilla is not big because it's full of useless crap. Mozilla is big because your needs are big. Your needs are big because the Internet is big. There are lots of small, lean web browsers out there that, incidentally, do almost nothing useful. If that's what you need, you've got options... " | May 19 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | Jamie awinski | May 19 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | *Zawinski | May 19 04:06 |
| tacone | pretty nice | May 19 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | I miss the Netscape browsers | May 19 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | the ones based on Mozilla Suite | May 19 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | Unfortunately AOL jettisoned them since they couldn't find a way to make it profitable | May 19 04:09 |
| DaemonFC | and turned netscape.com into a spam portal | May 19 04:09 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 04:09 |
| *twitter (i=willhill@97-113-239-12.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 19 04:10 | |
| DaemonFC | at least they haven't completely ruined Winamp yet | May 19 04:10 |
| DaemonFC | you can still install a "Lite version" if you want | May 19 04:10 |
| or you could run one of KDE's media players | May 19 04:10 | |
| noatun in nice | May 19 04:11 | |
| or was | May 19 04:11 | |
| I have not used it in a while | May 19 04:11 | |
| DaemonFC | Winamp is a good piece of software, it spawned a bunch of imitators on Linux | May 19 04:11 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately XMMS was the only one that came close to working right | May 19 04:11 |
| *DaemonFC groans | May 19 04:11 | |
| at what? | May 19 04:11 | |
| Vista blow up agian? | May 19 04:12 | |
| DaemonFC | Audacious doesn't support the new skins, it can't play video, and the presets are messed up | May 19 04:12 |
| DaemonFC | it just feels kind of tacky | May 19 04:12 |
| I hope you have skinned yourself out of the shiny black of Vista. | May 19 04:13 | |
| talk about tacky | May 19 04:13 | |
| DaemonFC | http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4830/84641780.png | May 19 04:17 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 04:17 |
| tacone | running vista ? gosh | May 19 04:19 |
| tacone | that's something even me avoids | May 19 04:19 |
| Nice background. Vista's transparency has almost caught up to E16 standards. | May 19 04:20 | |
| tacone | agggh i want to get this post out ! | May 19 04:20 |
| tacone | too much work | May 19 04:20 |
| That black bar is some ugly though. | May 19 04:21 | |
| DaemonFC | http://themes.mozdev.org/themes/ie.html# | May 19 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | ? | May 19 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | black bar? | May 19 04:21 |
| The windows bar at the bottom | May 19 04:21 | |
| DaemonFC | what color would you prefer? | May 19 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 04:21 |
| blue steel with transparency. | May 19 04:22 | |
| basically what you have for the rest of your stuff. | May 19 04:22 | |
| with a little more opacity | May 19 04:22 | |
| DaemonFC | do you have a color mixor setting? | May 19 04:22 |
| no, I just use a theme I like and give it a level of transparency. | May 19 04:23 | |
| If I wanted to, I could modify the widgets, but that's too much effort for me. | May 19 04:23 | |
| Desktop icons also bug me but at least that's not forced on you ... yet. | May 19 04:25 | |
| DaemonFC | I can mix colors | May 19 04:25 |
| KDE's kicker does that, I think. | May 19 04:25 | |
| DaemonFC | I don't know what to mix to get the Mozilla blue/green though | May 19 04:26 |
| I have not played with it in a while. I know Gnome's menu bar works that way but I'm not sure how to run it with E16 | May 19 04:26 | |
| I could probably make a script to change my colors. Use image magic to mix them and then restart E16. | May 19 04:27 | |
| Or just change themes. | May 19 04:28 | |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | May 19 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | I made Windows 1.0 green | May 19 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 04:28 |
| That would be interesting, but I mainly change colors by changing my background. | May 19 04:28 | |
| the color shows through the window decoration | May 19 04:28 | |
| tacone | DaemonFC: make it brown | May 19 04:30 |
| One thing I really hate about Windows's GUI is the task bar. | May 19 04:30 | |
| I remove that from Kicker. | May 19 04:30 | |
| tacone | i can say to have never used vista for real | May 19 04:31 |
| E16's icon box is much nicer | May 19 04:31 | |
| tacone | i just burned an ubuntu iso with it. and used i tunes to activate my iphone. | May 19 04:31 |
| tacone | the burning experience was wonderful. | May 19 04:31 |
| tacone | after i installed itunes i got an insane percentage of bsod | May 19 04:32 |
| sad | May 19 04:32 | |
| I'd read that Vista is like that with itunes | May 19 04:32 | |
| has been all along. | May 19 04:32 | |
| tacone | well | May 19 04:32 |
| tacone | it took just one boot to burn the ubuntu iso | May 19 04:33 |
| that's lucky | May 19 04:33 | |
| tacone | so, it didn't have the time to bsod perhaps | May 19 04:33 |
| Windows is not so good at burning iso in genreal | May 19 04:33 | |
| tacone | yeah, right at the first strike ! | May 19 04:33 |
| tacone | then i didn't booted windows for months. and never a problem :) | May 19 04:33 |
| tacone | when i got the iphone, though, i was forced to use it to activate the shit device. | May 19 04:34 |
| Windows, is like this http://content.hccfl.edu/facultyinfo/ckasper/images/05D1B88885BC4654AC52868C61FC2277.jpg | May 19 04:34 | |
| I'm not sure why people do it, but they say it's great and every business needs something inside it. | May 19 04:34 | |
| tacone | nice | May 19 04:34 |
| my wife found it. | May 19 04:35 | |
| I laughed and laughed | May 19 04:35 | |
| I'm not sure DeamonFC has ever run GNU/Linux for real. | May 19 04:36 | |
| How about it FC, what's the longest you've used a GNU/Linux system? | May 19 04:37 | |
| DaemonFC | couple years | May 19 04:37 |
| what did you use it for? | May 19 04:37 | |
| DaemonFC | general purpose | May 19 04:37 |
| The best things to use it for are email, web browsing and file archiving. | May 19 04:38 | |
| GNU/Linux file systems are reliable and the networking is excellent. It's a safe place for email and things you want to keep. | May 19 04:39 | |
| What distro did you use? | May 19 04:39 | |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 19 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | unless you pull the plug | May 19 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | or the power gets knocked out | May 19 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | then any decently performing file system will eat babies | May 19 04:39 |
| ext3 is journaling, so you can pull the plug | May 19 04:39 | |
| and performance is not bad | May 19 04:40 | |
| DaemonFC | like I said, if you want decent performance you either need to put all your fucking data in Oracle (Which defeats the point) or buy a UPS | May 19 04:40 |
| oiaohm | ext3 journaling is not that bad. | May 19 04:41 |
| but the thing to aim for is reliability, you can get performance elsewhere and save the results on a slower, stable system. | May 19 04:41 | |
| oiaohm | I have killed windows worse with ntfs and powerfailure. | May 19 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | which version of NTFS? | May 19 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | Vista has self healing NTFS | May 19 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | XP does not | May 19 04:41 |
| so tell me about the lmao distro | May 19 04:41 | |
| oiaohm | XP sp3 | May 19 04:41 |
| oiaohm | And Vista new self healing. | May 19 04:42 |
| oiaohm | It not flawless. | May 19 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | Vista only locks the files where it is repairing the fs | May 19 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | Linux locks out the whole file system | May 19 04:42 |
| about time, but I'm not sure how they can take care of ntfs metadata | May 19 04:42 | |
| DaemonFC | til it's done | May 19 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | THEN you may mount it | May 19 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 04:42 |
| oiaohm | So never running ext3 journal. | May 19 04:42 |
| anyway. I have not lost a file in 10 years using ext2 and ext3 | May 19 04:42 | |
| DaemonFC | file system recovery is probably the most irritating part of a Linux file system | May 19 04:42 |
| even with hard drive failures | May 19 04:43 | |
| DaemonFC | either you get a fast fsck and your file system is still corrupted | May 19 04:43 |
| *tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 19 04:43 | |
| oiaohm | ext3 journal acts like Vista selfheal. | May 19 04:43 |
| DaemonFC | or you get the entire volume locked | May 19 04:43 |
| DaemonFC | for 3 hours | May 19 04:43 |
| *tacone (i=97500137@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-46ebf867f39104b6) has joined #boycottnovell | May 19 04:43 | |
| you are not listening FC | May 19 04:43 | |
| oiaohm | You don't get volume locking. | May 19 04:43 |
| DaemonFC | and you choose between that | May 19 04:43 |
| oiaohm | You have options. | May 19 04:43 |
| oiaohm | Most people chose distribution ext3 defualt. | May 19 04:43 |
| ext3 journal recovery is reasonably fast. | May 19 04:43 | |
| oiaohm | Faster read speed. | May 19 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | yes, XFS and Ext4 a are clean fsck on a corrupt file system | May 19 04:44 |
| oiaohm | Slow recovery in crash. | May 19 04:44 |
| it's not an fsck | May 19 04:44 | |
| tacone | is the novell deal perpetual ? | May 19 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | and Ext2 and 3 are "locks the partition" til it finishes repairing | May 19 04:44 |
| tacone | guess not. | May 19 04:44 |
| oiaohm | Wrong. | May 19 04:44 |
| is M$ perpetual | May 19 04:44 | |
| I don't think so | May 19 04:44 | |
| tacone | 5 years ? | May 19 04:44 |
| oiaohm | Journal mode it does not lock DaemonFC | May 19 04:44 |
| so the deal won't last more than a couple of years | May 19 04:44 | |
| oiaohm | It does repair while in operation. | May 19 04:44 |
| works for me | May 19 04:44 | |
| oiaohm | Selection of mode DaemonFC | May 19 04:45 |
| Ahhh http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/2271/motivator4237759fo7.jpg | May 19 04:45 | |
| DaemonFC | every file system is it's own bag of worms | May 19 04:45 |
| oiaohm | Ext3 is about 4 different filesystem | May 19 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | but I can't help but wonder why Linux has like umpteen million file systems | May 19 04:45 |
| oiaohm | With the same disk storage patent. | May 19 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | and all of them have recovery or fsck problems | May 19 04:45 |
| oiaohm | No | May 19 04:45 |
| gnu/linux reads almost everyone else's file systems | May 19 04:46 | |
| that's a feature | May 19 04:46 | |
| oiaohm | Not all of them have recovery and fsck problems. | May 19 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | Ext4 actually scares me much worse than NTFS | May 19 04:46 |
| it took a lot of work too, and no they don't all recover either | May 19 04:46 | |
| oiaohm | You can choose with a lot of them Like ext3 journal. | May 19 04:46 |
| oiaohm | If you need to run fsck or not. | May 19 04:46 |
| oiaohm | All other ext3 mode you have to run fsck. | May 19 04:46 |
| ext3 is good for what gnu/linux is good for | May 19 04:46 | |
| oiaohm | ext3 journal no need. | May 19 04:46 |
| oiaohm | It done as part of filesystem operation. | May 19 04:47 |
| fsck does not hurt every now and then | May 19 04:47 | |
| oiaohm | Ext4 also has a option like that. | May 19 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | if you get a modern file system on Linux, it becomes unrecoverable | May 19 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | by modern I mean things like Extents | May 19 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | NTFS has had that for years and never given me this kind of grief | May 19 04:47 |
| Vista is not recoverable | May 19 04:47 | |
| just use bit rotter | May 19 04:47 | |
| locker | May 19 04:47 | |
| DaemonFC | missing my point | May 19 04:47 |
| oiaohm | You are running with distrobution defaults. | May 19 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | why does no Linux file system heal itself | May 19 04:47 |
| oiaohm | Wrong. | May 19 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | without fucking around with the user abuse | May 19 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | ? | May 19 04:48 |
| oiaohm | Ext3 journal mode does self heal. | May 19 04:48 |
| ext2 and 3 both have self healing features. | May 19 04:48 | |
| DaemonFC | like I said, it's a compromise | May 19 04:48 |
| oiaohm | Catch is most distributions don't enable it. | May 19 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | you have to forsake advanced features | May 19 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | for recoverability | May 19 04:48 |
| ext2 has fragmentation resistance | May 19 04:48 | |
| ext3 | May 19 04:48 | |
| oiaohm | Instead go for speed. | May 19 04:48 |
| journal prevents data loss | May 19 04:48 | |
| DaemonFC | no, the journal does not prevent data loss | May 19 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | it keeps the colume consistent | May 19 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | not the same thing | May 19 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | *volume | May 19 04:49 |
| oiaohm | Prevent volume damage. | May 19 04:49 |
| oiaohm | The things fsck are scanning for. | May 19 04:49 |
| I suppose FC will stick with super dependable Vista | May 19 04:49 | |
| lol | May 19 04:49 | |
| oiaohm | That take masivee amount of time. | May 19 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | look, I'm not going to say any system doesn't have problems | May 19 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | because they all suck at something | May 19 04:50 |
| oiaohm | NTFS has a few nasty filesystem glitchs. | May 19 04:50 |
| I just wondered what you used and where you got all your crazy ideas | May 19 04:50 | |
| oiaohm | Like turn files to 0 size. | May 19 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | but the file system is the worst possible single point of failure | May 19 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | especially when like Ext4, your data may have never been committed | May 19 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | in the first place | May 19 04:50 |
| oiaohm | Ext4 added background defraging. | May 19 04:50 |
| oiaohm | It will have better committment processes. | May 19 04:51 |
| oiaohm | There was a glitch. | May 19 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | May 19 04:51 |
| oiaohm | People who use a filesystem before it real world tested are nuts. | May 19 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | Ext4 is kind of like the Kite Eating Tree | May 19 04:51 |
| FC get's his crazy ideas from Steve Ballmer. | May 19 04:51 | |
| DaemonFC | if the power goes out, MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH goes your user folder | May 19 04:51 |
| oiaohm | You do know that the power to Munch Munch Munhc is in alightment with NTFS operation. | May 19 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | well, the guy behind Ext4 scares the shit out of me | May 19 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | by recommending a binary registry | May 19 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | ala Windows | May 19 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | to compensate for Ext4 being retarded | May 19 04:52 |
| oiaohm | Only realy it was displayed is Ext4 extended the sync time. | May 19 04:52 |
| oiaohm | If you extend the sync time on NTFS you will have as big as mess. | May 19 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | no, because Windows has the registry | May 19 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | which makes it more reliable | May 19 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | just ask Ted Tso | May 19 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 04:53 |
| oiaohm | registry can disappear | May 19 04:53 |
| oiaohm | with NTFS extended sync time. | May 19 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | nuh uh | May 19 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | Ted Tso would never lie | May 19 04:53 |
| oiaohm | I mean completely. | May 19 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | heresy! | May 19 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 04:53 |
| oiaohm | NTFS operation problem. | May 19 04:53 |
| oiaohm | It clears meta data. | May 19 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | once you have a dumping ground in binary database format | May 19 04:54 |
| oiaohm | So everything in a directory can disappear. | May 19 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | every file system fuckup goes right away | May 19 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | just ask Ted Tso | May 19 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | May 19 04:54 |
| Registry makes windows reliable? | May 19 04:54 | |
| oiaohm | Registy is a file. | May 19 04:54 |
| dude, this place stinks | May 19 04:54 | |
| oiaohm | When files can disappear | May 19 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | I'm being sarcastic | May 19 04:54 |
| tacone | going offline | May 19 04:54 |
| tacone | bb | May 19 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 04:54 |
| bb | May 19 04:54 | |
| oiaohm | Due to opertaional error. | May 19 04:54 |
| oiaohm | You are screwed. | May 19 04:54 |
| oiaohm | Ext4 basically did a alteration to come into alightment with posix designed filesystems. | May 19 04:55 |
| oiaohm | That NTFS has. | May 19 04:55 |
| oiaohm | That turned out to be stupid on a scale you that was never even considered. | May 19 04:56 |
| DaemonFC | even Linus Torvalds hasn't ever come out and said Windows sucks full stop | May 19 04:56 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 04:56 |
| DaemonFC | http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6325/31349432.png | May 19 04:56 |
| Linus does not waste a lot of words on the obvious. | May 19 04:56 | |
| oiaohm | Problem here lot of people attack Linux filesystems and forget NTFS and Linux filesystems have a common history point. | May 19 04:56 |
| *tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 19 04:57 | |
| oiaohm | VMS filesystems were based of posix design ideas. | May 19 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | Torvalds has gona a lot harder on the Mac | May 19 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | than he has on Windows | May 19 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | "On the other hand, (I've found) OS X in some ways is actually worse than Windows to program for. Their file system is complete and utter crap, which is scary." | May 19 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | -Linus Torvalds | May 19 04:58 |
| oiaohm | I agree on that filesystem common. | May 19 04:58 |
| oiaohm | OS X filesystem is a hybred mess. | May 19 04:58 |
| oiaohm | It cannot make up what it wants to be. | May 19 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | As long as Windows shields the user from the underpinnings of the system it will have a market | May 19 04:59 |
| DaemonFC | As long as Mac shields the user from the underpinnings of the system it will have a market | May 19 04:59 |
| ha ha | May 19 04:59 | |
| DaemonFC | As long as Linux forces the user to deal with the underpinnings of the system it will have a niche market | May 19 04:59 |
| oiaohm | and that is reducing. | May 19 04:59 |
| DaemonFC | normal human beings don't want to worry about how to install software | May 19 05:00 |
| I like your Ivana Humpalot wallpaper. It's kind of a rip off of Stirling's Draka world though. | May 19 05:00 | |
| DaemonFC | they don't want to pick from 6 file systems | May 19 05:00 |
| DaemonFC | They want to plug in devices and have the OS report that it installed drivers | May 19 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | not that it doesn't know what you plugged in | May 19 05:01 |
| Do windows users also have trouble picking from more than 5 versions or three wallpapers? | May 19 05:01 | |
| oiaohm | Users don't want to have to defrag either DaemonFC | May 19 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | Windows defragments itself | May 19 05:01 |
| oiaohm | Or clean up OS messes to get performance. | May 19 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | in the background | May 19 05:01 |
| or run anti-virus | May 19 05:01 | |
| or have nasty pop ups | May 19 05:02 | |
| oiaohm | No OS that current exists is truly userfriendly. | May 19 05:02 |
| or have their web surfing crawl to a standstill because they played a CD | May 19 05:02 | |
| oiaohm | It all decide how you want your arms and legs removed. | May 19 05:02 |
| DRM is truly hostile | May 19 05:02 | |
| free software lacks that direct confrontation | May 19 05:02 | |
| oiaohm | Linux is better than windows in some areas worse in others. | May 19 05:03 |
| it's problem, according to FC, is an embarasment of riches | May 19 05:03 | |
| too many good things | May 19 05:03 | |
| ha ha | May 19 05:03 | |
| oiaohm | Just like Mac is better in some area and worse in others. | May 19 05:03 |
| oiaohm | No OS has it right. | May 19 05:03 |
| oiaohm | To be correct no platform has it right. | May 19 05:04 |
| You can make free software just right for you. | May 19 05:04 | |
| It would just take too much time. | May 19 05:04 | |
| oiaohm | The problem. | May 19 05:04 |
| oiaohm | Needs to be faster to get to just right. | May 19 05:04 |
| you can't make Windows just right, no matter how much time and help you got. | May 19 05:04 | |
| My system is fast. | May 19 05:05 | |
| even though it's a dinky PIII | May 19 05:05 | |
| oiaohm | Ie time taken not speed. | May 19 05:05 |
| oiaohm | to get to that point. | May 19 05:05 |
| oiaohm | Ie simpler to install drivers ..... | May 19 05:05 |
| free drivers are easy, they work or they are not there. | May 19 05:05 | |
| oiaohm | Better solution to that too. | May 19 05:06 |
| very few have to be located and installed. | May 19 05:06 | |
| oiaohm | I wish backported drivers would work more. | May 19 05:06 |
| most come with the kernel by default in good distributions | May 19 05:06 | |
| the driver solution is OEM cooperation and that's on the way | May 19 05:06 | |
| oiaohm | Its intergation and smoother in places Linux needs. | May 19 05:06 |
| like what? | May 19 05:07 | |
| oiaohm | Of course they can be added. | May 19 05:07 |
| KDE's control panel rocks | May 19 05:07 | |
| oiaohm | driver backport project goal is as new drivers become avalibed in Linux kernel they become accessable to the older kernels. | May 19 05:07 |
| oiaohm | Without user having to change it. | May 19 05:07 |
| that happens but changing kernels is trivial under Debian. | May 19 05:08 | |
| oiaohm | Ksplice one of there goals is to allow a in place kernel update. | May 19 05:08 |
| it's just another package | May 19 05:08 | |
| oiaohm | So no stopping to allow more hardware support. | May 19 05:08 |
| booting once a year is not such a big deal. | May 19 05:08 | |
| oiaohm | Just work away kernel updates then you have more hardware support. | May 19 05:08 |
| oiaohm | Basically smoother. | May 19 05:09 |
| It's a nice idea, but module support should give that to you. | May 19 05:09 | |
| oiaohm | zero reboots required to get there. | May 19 05:09 |
| tessier | Is everything working on the site? schestowitz was looking for me earlier but I was out having dinner. | May 19 05:09 |
| already | May 19 05:09 | |
| site looks good to me | May 19 05:09 | |
| I have not checked everything yet. I posted a comment this morning. | May 19 05:09 | |
| oiaohm | tessier: he was asking how to merge the old site data with current tessier. | May 19 05:10 |
| oiaohm | basically twitter Linux has a decent distance to go before it is as smooth as it can be. | May 19 05:12 |
| my system is like glass next to Windows, thanks | May 19 05:13 | |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 19 05:14 |
| I'm not sure how it could be smoother. It updates from one release to the next flawlessly with only a network connection. It has never lost a file for me. What more could I want? | May 19 05:14 | |
| DaemonFC | John McCain's website removed all references to him running for President | May 19 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 19 05:14 |
| they are probably trying to change the numbers from 2008 to 2012 but their m$ script skills left them wanting. | May 19 05:15 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 19 05:15 |
| DaemonFC | it's turned into "Re-Elect Senator McCain in 2010" site | May 19 05:15 |
| oh wait, that's right, they use gnu/linux for email and other service | May 19 05:15 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 19 05:15 |
| DaemonFC | his site is on Windows 2000 | May 19 05:15 |
| oh yes they did | May 19 05:15 | |
| DaemonFC | the RNC uses Windows 2003 | May 19 05:16 |
| DaemonFC | http://searchdns.netcraft.com/?position=limited&host=johnmccain.com | May 19 05:16 |
| GWB was an extensive gnu/linux user for his "personal" mail | May 19 05:16 | |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 19 05:16 |
| DaemonFC | www.johnmccain.com Site Report may 1998 smartech corporation windows server 2003 | May 19 05:16 |
| DaemonFC | may 1998 was First Seen | May 19 05:16 |
| you are confusing the public facing server with what they use internally | May 19 05:16 | |
| they had an official email server, Windows, which lost all their mail | May 19 05:17 | |
| and they had a private email server that ran free software | May 19 05:17 | |
| DaemonFC | http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.rnc.org | May 19 05:17 |
| the guy who ran it died | May 19 05:17 | |
| DaemonFC | Windows Server 2003Microsoft-IIS/6.0 | May 19 05:17 |
| in a mysterious plane crash | May 19 05:17 | |
| don't be dense, FC. | May 19 05:18 | |
| DaemonFC | http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=barackobama.com | May 19 05:18 |
| DaemonFC | FreeBSDApache/2.2.10 | May 19 05:18 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | May 19 05:18 |
| DaemonFC | http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=whitehouse.gov | May 19 05:18 |
| DaemonFC | LinuxAkamaiGHost | May 19 05:18 |
| DaemonFC | http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=nsa.gov | May 19 05:19 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Server 2003unknown | May 19 05:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fbi.gov%2F | May 19 05:20 |
| DaemonFC | LinuxApache | May 19 05:20 |
| DaemonFC | meh, they're all used | May 19 05:20 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder if the NSA website is really useing Windows 2003 | May 19 05:21 |
| *tacone (i=97500137@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ec428eecd22f4580) has joined #boycottnovell | May 19 05:21 | |
| they are not, it's a lie | May 19 05:21 | |
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_e-mail_controversy | May 19 05:22 | |
| see gwb43.com | May 19 05:22 | |
| DaemonFC | http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html | May 19 05:23 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft gets highest uptimes | May 19 05:23 |
| yeah! | May 19 05:23 | |
| black is white | May 19 05:23 | |
| DaemonFC | the best uptimes go to Windows 2000 | May 19 05:23 |
| DaemonFC | and Windows 2003 | May 19 05:23 |
| must be the nsa server, for some reason it never goes down.... | May 19 05:24 | |
| tacone | does bsod count as uptime ? | May 19 05:24 |
| oiaohm | That changes. | May 19 05:24 |
| M$ is fudging uptime in various ways | May 19 05:24 | |
| we all know that 60 day uptimes are "insane" Steve Ballmer said so. | May 19 05:25 | |
| *incoherence (n=gnucrack@98.108.210.31) has joined #boycottnovell | May 19 05:25 | |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft is using Windows 2003 | May 19 05:25 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 05:25 |
| dog food | May 19 05:25 | |
| DaemonFC | well it's funny | May 19 05:26 |
| DaemonFC | cause Server 2008 is out | May 19 05:26 |
| but if they take it down, they will ruinz their uptimez | May 19 05:26 | |
| noes | May 19 05:26 | |
| DaemonFC | probably using Windows 2003 cause it's lighter on resources and they've already patched most of the security problems | May 19 05:27 |
| oiaohm | Uptime is also a really bad measure. | May 19 05:28 |
| DaemonFC | current uptime for their server is 50 days | May 19 05:28 |
| DaemonFC | that's not terrible | May 19 05:28 |
| oiaohm | Linux uptime counter loops sooner than Windows does. | May 19 05:28 |
| incoherence | so is this the source of all anti-mono bitterness on the intarwubz? | May 19 05:28 |
| oiaohm | So even that Linux does not reboot. | May 19 05:28 |
| incoherence | i hope so - i had @rms on twitter until i got banned | May 19 05:28 |
| oiaohm | It gets counted as such. | May 19 05:28 |
| incoherence | for trolling the gnome/mono crowd. | May 19 05:29 |
| bitterness is a M$ TM | May 19 05:29 | |
| DaemonFC | http://news.netcraft.com/ | May 19 05:29 |
| DaemonFC | Most reliable in April was FreeBSD | May 19 05:29 |
| DaemonFC | top two slots | May 19 05:29 |
| DaemonFC | followed by Windows 2003 | May 19 05:29 |
| DaemonFC | then Linux | May 19 05:30 |
| sure deamon, we all know how super reliable windows is | May 19 05:30 | |
| it's so super, it's above reliable | May 19 05:31 | |
| oiaohm | http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/requested.html You can pull all kinds of different numbers DaemonFC | May 19 05:31 |
| oiaohm | How do you know the most reliable had to process any load. | May 19 05:31 |
| because they were bank sites using bsd | May 19 05:31 | |
| that was before M$ took an interest in uptime | May 19 05:32 | |
| oiaohm | Still does not mean that it was major load. | May 19 05:32 |
| DaemonFC | my bank uses Solaris 8 | May 19 05:32 |
| eh, working site | May 19 05:32 | |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 05:32 |
| and you use Vista | May 19 05:32 | |
| what a great combination | May 19 05:33 | |
| twitter keeps his money under the mattress and lost in the couch | May 19 05:33 | |
| oiaohm | Anyone spot a problem in that requested page. | May 19 05:33 |
| no, did not look | May 19 05:33 | |
| oiaohm | Microsoft.com is listed twice. | May 19 05:34 |
| oiaohm | As 2 different OS's. | May 19 05:34 |
| and you know that both of those machines are hidden behind a gnu/linux router, ha ha | May 19 05:35 | |
| oiaohm | http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/accuracy.html Read this page careful DaemonFC | May 19 05:36 |
| oiaohm | Netcraft even open addmits its uptime numbers are bull. | May 19 05:36 |
| yeah, people gamed them. Windows never did record things right | May 19 05:36 | |
| oiaohm | The Linux TCP stack uses the low 32 bits from the system uptime timer, and this timer, in recent kernel releases, runs at 250Hz. This means that the timer value wraps around to 0 after roughly 198 days. Although we could in theory attempt to compute the true uptime for OS's with this upper limit by monitoring for restarts at the expected time, we prefer not to do this as it can be error prone. << From netcraft | May 19 05:37 |
| microsoft.com 45 days max, ha ha, even when they lie they suck. | May 19 05:38 | |
| oiaohm | So basically they have not a single clue about the uptime of Linux boxes. | May 19 05:38 |
| well, not a clue beyond 198 days | May 19 05:39 | |
| I could have sworn that I had more than that once. | May 19 05:39 | |
| it was a miracle of electric company uptime more than mine | May 19 05:40 | |
| oiaohm | You see a lot of Linux with high reads of 197 and the like. | May 19 05:41 |
| oiaohm | As there max. | May 19 05:41 |
| oiaohm | With ksplice on kernels there is no reason to stop other than hardware breakage. | May 19 05:41 |
| I'm usually limited by power uptime, or wanting to change something | May 19 05:42 | |
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| when I want to concentrate on work, the system does not get in my way | May 19 05:42 | |
| it stays up and keeps my place | May 19 05:43 | |
| LOL from today's BN, " The latest round of layoffs at Microsoft has taken a toll on Redmond’s security unit." | May 19 05:44 | |
| oiaohm | Really that is something schestowitz could pick on. | May 19 05:44 |
| Is that the team that was job one. | May 19 05:45 | |
| oiaohm | How bull crap netcrafts numbers really are when you read the fine print. | May 19 05:45 |
| that was going to eliminate spam | May 19 05:45 | |
| yeah, there's a story in fake M$ uptime. DeamonFC was confused, so others may be as well. | May 19 05:46 | |
| oiaohm | Like the don't measure anything running linux 2.6 or Freebsd 6 due to the fact you can change the clocking rate. | May 19 05:46 |
| oiaohm | Uptime is a super rubber number. | May 19 05:47 |
| oiaohm | Windows is even funnier. | May 19 05:47 |
| oiaohm | After some crashes it will not reset the uptime. | May 19 05:47 |
| oiaohm | So it will pay that it has not crashed. | May 19 05:48 |
| why bother, they lie about everything else? | May 19 05:48 | |
| oiaohm | There are a lot who try to use netcraft number to defend there case. | May 19 05:49 |
| oiaohm | Its black and white on there site that they are not measuing a whole stack of things. | May 19 05:49 |
| oiaohm | We should call it highly bias reporting. | May 19 05:50 |
| It's pretty obvious to most people who've run both systems which is more reliable. | May 19 05:52 | |
| oiaohm | Problem is it management that make the buying plans. | May 19 05:53 |
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| *tessier makes a local mirror of CentOS 5.3 | May 19 05:59 | |
| tessier | Sometime in the next few days we'll move bn off onto its own server. | May 19 05:59 |
| tessier | Maybe even tomorrow depending on how fast this mirror downloads and how much time I have tomorrow. | May 19 05:59 |
| DaemonFC | http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/04/09/microsoft-gets-slammed-in-yet-another-patent-suit/ | May 19 06:00 |
| DaemonFC | In what’s being billed as the fifth-largest patent award in history — and the second largest this year — a federal jury in Rhode Island on Wednesday ordered Microsoft to pay $388 million to Uniloc USA Inc. and Uniloc Singapore Private Ltd. for infringing a software patent. | May 19 06:00 |
| *tessier eagerly awaits the patent armageddon when everyone sues and counter-sues everyone else | May 19 06:00 | |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft had infringed its patent through the “product activation” system which is installed in its Windows operating system and Office tools. | May 19 06:01 |
| DaemonFC | On Wednesday, the jury found Microsoft willfully infringed the patent. | May 19 06:01 |
| DaemonFC | Does anyone find this double ironic? | May 19 06:03 |
| DaemonFC | 1. They lost a patent suit brought on under patent laws they pushed for | May 19 06:03 |
| DaemonFC | 2. The infringing patent was relating to their copy protection system? | May 19 06:04 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 19 06:04 |
| DaemonFC | if I was on the jury I would have pushed to award the maximum amount of possible damages to Uniloc | May 19 06:04 |
| tacone | almost everyone found that double ironic | May 19 06:06 |
| DaemonFC | another way to look at it is that this represents a tiny fraction of the money that Microsoft has made due to activation | May 19 06:07 |
| DaemonFC | and the $388 million is probably less money than Uniloc would have charged to license it | May 19 06:07 |
| DaemonFC | and Microsoft made them spend 6 years in court to get it | May 19 06:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/02/microsoft-shows/ | May 19 06:08 |
| DaemonFC | "The much-maligned version of Windows Media Player in Windows 7 is also slated for some improvements — perhaps the most useful is that WMP will filter out content that it can’t play. For example, Apple Lossless files don’t work in WMP, yet looking at the file in your library there is no indication that they won’t work." | May 19 06:08 |
| DaemonFC | Gee, that's nice | May 19 06:09 |
| DaemonFC | how about pulling in the fucking codec? | May 19 06:09 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 06:09 |
| DaemonFC | ditch this shit | May 19 06:09 |
| DaemonFC | what a joke | May 19 06:09 |
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| M$ will helpfully label music from all other platforms, "broken" | May 19 06:30 | |
| ogg, flac, apple formats. | May 19 06:30 | |
| no restrictions, must be bad | May 19 06:30 | |
| DaemonFC | it plays MP3 | May 19 06:31 |
| In other news, music rental plans are still a failure http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2009/05/napster_gets_ch.html | May 19 06:31 | |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 06:31 |
| woot mp3 | May 19 06:31 | |
| Zuned out | May 19 06:32 | |
| I actually know someone who bought into a zune. His dad is some kind of non free software programmer. Poor guy swallowed the whole RIAA/M$ thing about piracy, hook line and sinker. | May 19 06:33 | |
| DaemonFC | I may buy a Zune | May 19 06:34 |
| I did too, to an extent, which is why I get most of my music now from archive.org and other artists that share. | May 19 06:34 | |
| DaemonFC | they are practically giving them away for free | May 19 06:34 |
| I'd hate to deprive the RIAA of revenue, so I don't listen to or buy their shit anymore. | May 19 06:35 | |
| ha ha | May 19 06:35 | |
| DaemonFC | I came across where MS is selling the 4 gig flash Zune for like $59 | May 19 06:35 |
| DaemonFC | the 4 gig flash ipod is still over $100 | May 19 06:35 |
| really? | May 19 06:35 | |
| DaemonFC | they both play my mp3s | May 19 06:35 |
| DaemonFC | hell with it | May 19 06:35 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 19 06:35 |
| DaemonFC | they sell the shit at a loss | May 19 06:35 |
| DaemonFC | so they can make money later | May 19 06:35 |
| nah, you can get ilo for less | May 19 06:35 | |
| DaemonFC | only where it breaks down is when I put all my existing mp3s on it | May 19 06:36 |
| DaemonFC | and buy no music from them | May 19 06:36 |
| ilo is not a bad player, does you mp3s | May 19 06:36 | |
| DaemonFC | ilo is a cheap garbage walmart brand | May 19 06:36 |
| yep | May 19 06:36 | |
| came with nice headphones too | May 19 06:36 | |
| DaemonFC | for an extra $10 I'll get the Zune over the no name | May 19 06:36 |
| Zune is like cheap gargage walmart brand rebranded | May 19 06:37 | |
| DaemonFC | now if ipod was a little closer to the Zune price | May 19 06:37 |
| DaemonFC | then I'd go for it | May 19 06:37 |
| M$, a mark lower than Walmart | May 19 06:37 | |
| Zune is a rebranded gigabeat from toshiba or some other company | May 19 06:37 | |
| they all use the same guts | May 19 06:38 | |
| Chips from China | May 19 06:38 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 19 06:38 |
| DaemonFC | I have a Gigabeat-S | May 19 06:38 |
| DaemonFC | not a bad player | May 19 06:38 |
| so you don't need a zune | May 19 06:38 | |
| I've got an ilo. it was not bad | May 19 06:38 | |
| the only problem is that it did not play ogg | May 19 06:38 | |
| DaemonFC | I think the rebadged player actually sold WORSE as a Microsoft Zune | May 19 06:38 |
| or flac | May 19 06:38 | |
| DaemonFC | LMAO | May 19 06:38 |
| DaemonFC | it went from a "Toshiba? Do we know anything about their players?" to "WTF!? Microsoft? Fuck no!" | May 19 06:39 |
| M$ made a deal with OEMs to not support ogg and apple formats | May 19 06:39 | |
| DaemonFC | Zune plays AAC | May 19 06:39 |
| DaemonFC | You can play music from iTunes on a Zune | May 19 06:40 |
| DaemonFC | as long as it's not DRM'd | May 19 06:40 |
| at this point, M$ will do anything to keep from losing money | May 19 06:40 | |
| DaemonFC | I don't think it is anymore | May 19 06:40 |
| but they still add drm, so it's not worth it | May 19 06:40 | |
| M$ stabbed the OEMs in the back when it completely redid it's craptacular "Plays for Sure" program, which was part of the original bribe to ignore free and apple formats. | May 19 06:41 | |
| they did this to support Zune. | May 19 06:42 | |
| that they also made Zune work with apple formats is yet another back stab. | May 19 06:42 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZoGwZ9yiM0 | May 19 06:42 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 19 06:42 |
| DaemonFC | that's the worst part of OEM Windows | May 19 06:44 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft doesn't support it | May 19 06:44 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 19 06:44 | |
| DaemonFC | so you get to pay $30 an incident to Microsoft if you want help from them | May 19 06:44 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_x2Np_ZLJ4 | May 19 06:45 |
| no, I think the part where the market was flooded with cheap players that did not use free formats was a big sting. | May 19 06:46 | |
| that hurt free software | May 19 06:46 | |
| DaemonFC | meh | May 19 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | you can flash some of them | May 19 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | with Rockbox | May 19 06:47 |
| here we go, a link http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/27/accidental_music_monopoly_bid/ | May 19 06:48 | |
| So, at least five years ago, M$ squashed free formats on players | May 19 06:49 | |
| this was back when iRiver and others were moving to ogg vorbis because it cost them nothing and was better than non free formats | May 19 06:50 | |
| Rockbox is cool, as all free software is, but that does not undo M$'s blatant market manipulation | May 19 06:50 | |
| they made sure you could not get a decent music player out of the box. | May 19 06:51 | |
| the market ended up choked with cheapo players that did mp3 and wmp only. | May 19 06:51 | |
| It's amazing that Apple not only survived this attack but grew. | May 19 06:52 | |
| Only a few companies, like Trekstor, bothered to make players that did ogg. | May 19 06:52 | |
| So, outside of flashing your player, you were left with a small selection of expensive players. | May 19 06:53 | |
| If you wanted free formats, that is. | May 19 06:53 | |
| *jmacassey has quit ("I'm sick of this shitt") | May 19 06:53 | |
| The funny thing is that their greed so turned everyone off that they can't give Zunes away. | May 19 06:58 | |
| Massive money hole | May 19 06:58 | |
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| Greed digs massive money pit. | May 19 06:58 | |
| ha ha, gotta love Roughly Drafted http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/09/why-windows-7-is-microsofts-next-zune/#more-3521 | May 19 07:02 | |
| the Zune tattoo dude | May 19 07:02 | |
| that story needs some digg love | May 19 07:07 | |
| kentma1 | schestowitz: don't seem to have any News postings from 18/5, yesterday - were you not making any? | May 19 07:08 |
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| oiaohm | twitter market bending has done for a very long time. | May 19 08:02 |
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| DaemonFC | "PC makers are desperately trying to weather the storm of a brutally competitive market that is shrinking globally for the first time ever. They don’t want a fancy bunch of glitz that shows the power of GPUs, they want Windows XP as cheaply as possible so they can apply it to netbooks and sell something, anything, before they go out of business." | May 19 09:00 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 19 09:00 |
| MinceR | geekings | May 19 09:01 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: re RNC, it has Microsofters inside it. Management. | May 19 09:10 |
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| schestowitz | kentma1: no news last night, I was busy with other things, but will catch up today | May 19 09:17 |
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| schestowitz | DaemonFC: good quote that one. Predictable | May 19 09:18 |
| schestowitz | kentma1: I'll post some now | May 19 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | what did I say? | May 19 09:20 |
| *DaemonFC has no scrollback | May 19 09:20 | |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | it's 4:30 AM here :P | May 19 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | and burning up | May 19 09:22 |
| *DaemonFC opens the window | May 19 09:22 | |
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| DaemonFC | jesus.... | May 19 09:30 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Every page on Microsoft.com has an ad for IE 8 | May 19 09:30 |
| DaemonFC | telling you to "upgrade your internet experience" | May 19 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | they sure know how to peddle dog shit | May 19 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.microsoft.com/upgrade/ | May 19 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | my ass | May 19 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 09:31 |
| schestowitz | So they don't just force it but also spend a fortunate/lots of estate promoting it | May 19 09:32 |
| schestowitz | I've known professor who were afraiid of Firefox because of "Security" | May 19 09:33 |
| schestowitz | They are told by Microsoft that "not Microsoft" is "not secure" | May 19 09:33 |
| tessier | http://www.olpcnews.com/software/windows/nobody_buying_windows_xo_laptops.html | May 19 09:34 |
| tessier | You might enjoy that | May 19 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: In my testing, IE 7 was the slowest browser on Windows Vista | May 19 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | and IE 8 was the 2nd slowest | May 19 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | well, all we can do is hope the EU kicks Microsoft in the nuts as hard as they kicked Intel | May 19 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | over the whole IE thing | May 19 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | IE has never been my favorite anything | May 19 09:36 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes, great news! | May 19 09:36 |
| schestowitz | I saw it earlier | May 19 09:36 |
| schestowitz | tessier: they were never interested in OLC | May 19 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't even support RSS until late 2006 | May 19 09:36 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki found the evidence | May 19 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | *IE | May 19 09:36 |
| schestowitz | tessier: as soon as we replace the DBs, then it's all set and I can delete like 10GB of files from my account | May 19 09:37 |
| DaemonFC | oh god damn it | May 19 09:37 |
| DaemonFC | that Windows Customer Experience popup just came back | May 19 09:37 |
| DaemonFC | "Please let us spy on you".......Cancel | May 19 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | 19 hours later "Please let us spy on you" | May 19 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | til you delete the task scheduler entries or tell it OK | May 19 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, looks like Pakistan is finally going to do something about the Taliban strongholds | May 19 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | it's about time | May 19 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | if we had really wanted Bin Laden all that bad we would have told them to do it or we'd take care of it for them | May 19 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | about 5-6 years ago | May 19 09:54 |
| schestowitz | Back in 15 minutes | May 19 09:56 |
| schestowitz | OK, I'm back | May 19 10:08 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: are you there? | May 19 10:17 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz | May 19 10:22 |
| DaemonFC | looks like NoScript was up to NoGood lately | May 19 10:22 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I heard | May 19 10:23 |
| kentma1 | schestowitz: I have no News from you yesterday - is that correct? | May 19 10:23 |
| DaemonFC | the guy that wrote NoScript started modifying Adblock Plus to let his own ads through | May 19 10:23 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I post some now | May 19 10:23 |
| schestowitz | Moved servers yesterday | May 19 10:23 |
| DaemonFC | then apologized after he was caught red handed | May 19 10:23 |
| DaemonFC | probably shat himself when he thought that a million pissed off Firefox users would ask Mozilla to delist him | May 19 10:24 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 19 10:24 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I can't explain it | May 19 10:30 |
| DaemonFC | but it appears that SeaMonkey actually uses less resources than Firefox | May 19 10:30 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-91-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 19 10:30 | |
| _Hicham_ | Hi All! | May 19 10:31 |
| DaemonFC | I've had SeaMonkey open, with ChatZilla, occasionally opening my mail for several hours now | May 19 10:31 |
| DaemonFC | and it's using 68 megs of RAM | May 19 10:31 |
| _Hicham_ | Good Morning schestowitz! | May 19 10:31 |
| DaemonFC | that's pretty good | May 19 10:31 |
| _Hicham_ | Good Evening oiaohm! | May 19 10:31 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox seems to have had some significant regressions | May 19 10:32 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : you like SeaMonkey better than Firefox? | May 19 10:32 |
| DaemonFC | yeah actually | May 19 10:32 |
| DaemonFC | think I do | May 19 10:32 |
| _Hicham_ | what kind of Regressions? | May 19 10:32 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox appears to leak more memory than SeaMonkey | May 19 10:32 |
| _Hicham_ | they share the same underlying code? | May 19 10:33 |
| _Hicham_ | how can it be? | May 19 10:33 |
| DaemonFC | some of the same code | May 19 10:33 |
| _Hicham_ | they have the same xulrunner | May 19 10:33 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, same rendering engine | May 19 10:33 |
| DaemonFC | but the browsers appear to be quite different beyond that | May 19 10:33 |
| DaemonFC | I mean they both use most of the same extensions and such | May 19 10:34 |
| _Hicham_ | xulrunner is responsible for memory leaks | May 19 10:34 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva 2009 Spring Kicks Vista7 back to /dev/null http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-18-016-35-RV-MD | May 19 10:34 |
| DaemonFC | I noticed that | May 19 10:34 |
| schestowitz | :-) | May 19 10:34 |
| _Hicham_ | so if there is a memory leak in Firefox, it will be in SeaMonkey too | May 19 10:34 |
| schestowitz | in de null? | May 19 10:34 |
| _Hicham_ | and Thunderbird also | May 19 10:34 |
| schestowitz | *de nul | May 19 10:34 |
| _Hicham_ | and Songbird | May 19 10:34 |
| _Hicham_ | and Yelp | May 19 10:34 |
| _Hicham_ | Epiphany | May 19 10:34 |
| _Hicham_ | and so on | May 19 10:34 |
| DaemonFC | well, I don't know why it's not misbehaving | May 19 10:34 |
| DaemonFC | but it isn't | May 19 10:35 |
| DaemonFC | Law of Belligerent Design | May 19 10:35 |
| DaemonFC | yes, that must be it | May 19 10:35 |
| *schestowitz can't type well whilst eating | May 19 10:35 | |
| _Hicham_ | actually, the problem relies in the extensions | May 19 10:35 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is a big eater | May 19 10:35 |
| _Hicham_ | he have a stomach leak | May 19 10:35 |
| _Hicham_ | just like xulrunner from time to time | May 19 10:35 |
| _Hicham_ | he is based on the same engine | May 19 10:36 |
| schestowitz | running strace stomach | May 19 10:36 |
| DaemonFC | ftrace | May 19 10:36 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 10:36 |
| DaemonFC | doppler effect | May 19 10:37 |
| _Hicham_ | did u use Firefox Fedora? | May 19 10:37 |
| schestowitz | Tutorial: Boot Linux Over A Network http://www.pcplus.co.uk/content/tutorial-boot-linux-over-network | May 19 10:37 |
| _Hicham_ | Firefox Fedora seems to be faster | May 19 10:38 |
| _Hicham_ | did anyone notice that? | May 19 10:38 |
| _Hicham_ | more than Firefox Ubuntu | May 19 10:39 |
| _Hicham_ | where is oiaohm? | May 19 10:40 |
| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_ | May 19 10:40 |
| _Hicham_ | where have u been oiaohm? | May 19 10:41 |
| _Hicham_ | cooking dinner? | May 19 10:41 |
| oiaohm | Had dinner ages ago. | May 19 10:41 |
| oiaohm | Case of being out and leaving terminal running. | May 19 10:41 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no risk in leaving your computer like that? | May 19 10:42 |
| _Hicham_ | I mean a thief can enter and steal all of your secret data? | May 19 10:42 |
| oiaohm | System auto console locks. | May 19 10:43 |
| _Hicham_ | after how much idle time? | May 19 10:43 |
| oiaohm | My stuff with real secret stuff on does not have internet connection. | May 19 10:43 |
| oiaohm | Distance _Hicham_ | May 19 10:44 |
| oiaohm | 3 meters away it will console lock. | May 19 10:44 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | May 19 10:44 |
| _Hicham_ | do u have a sensor on your computer? | May 19 10:44 |
| oiaohm | Simple blue tooth device. | May 19 10:44 |
| oiaohm | As soon as it out of range lock the console. | May 19 10:45 |
| _Hicham_ | really smart solution | May 19 10:45 |
| oiaohm | Cheep solution. | May 19 10:46 |
| oiaohm | Few scripts and you have it. | May 19 10:47 |
| oiaohm | Note it only locks the console password is still required to unlock it. | May 19 10:47 |
| _Hicham_ | do u think that kernel should have a stable driver ABI? | May 19 10:48 |
| oiaohm | From a secuirty point of view no. | May 19 10:48 |
| oiaohm | Not kernel space at least. | May 19 10:48 |
| oiaohm | userspace driver interface yes that should exist. | May 19 10:49 |
| oiaohm | Closed source not auditable parts have no place in kernel space. | May 19 10:49 |
| _Hicham_ | what about closed source firmwares? | May 19 10:50 |
| _Hicham_ | have they been audited? | May 19 10:50 |
| oiaohm | Firmwares are a evil you cannot avoid. | May 19 10:50 |
| oiaohm | Even if you banned OS from loading them they could be embeded on card. | May 19 10:50 |
| oiaohm | Really at least loadable by OS they can be updated simpler. | May 19 10:51 |
| oiaohm | Of course from secuirty point of view I would prefer open source firmwares. | May 19 10:51 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. http://dictionary.cambridge.org/cmd_search.asp | May 19 10:51 |
| oiaohm | But this is a real world. | May 19 10:51 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft FAIL | May 19 10:51 |
| oiaohm | So you cannot have everything you want. | May 19 10:51 |
| schestowitz | The whole dictionary doesn't work because of it | May 19 10:51 |
| _Hicham_ | what we can do is separate firmwares into separate packages just like Fedora and Debian do? | May 19 10:52 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel is going that path _Hicham_ | May 19 10:52 |
| oiaohm | In time there will not be a single firmware in the kernel source. | May 19 10:53 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu doesn't do that | May 19 10:53 |
| _Hicham_ | they offer you a one piece kernel | May 19 10:53 |
| _Hicham_ | bastardizing the user experience | May 19 10:53 |
| _Hicham_ | I like how Fedora is doing things | May 19 10:53 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu breaking Open Source project recommendations. | May 19 10:53 |
| oiaohm | as per normal. | May 19 10:53 |
| *AWR (n=susej@datasinner.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 19 10:53 | |
| oiaohm | I can still remember telling Ubuntu maintainer never back port patches on wine. | May 19 10:54 |
| oiaohm | And the maintainer going ahead and doing it. | May 19 10:54 |
| _Hicham_ | they even add some overhead to kernel developers | May 19 10:54 |
| _Hicham_ | by applying some weird patches | May 19 10:54 |
| oiaohm | Wine is that complex that not even the lead developers of wine know what some of the effects will be by back porting. | May 19 10:55 |
| _Hicham_ | the kernel team intervenes then and offers patches to fix Ubuntu's kernel problems | May 19 10:55 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu is far too much bleeding edge. | May 19 10:55 |
| oiaohm | In there maintainer ship rules. | May 19 10:56 |
| _Hicham_ | like when they added some experimental Intel Ethernet Cards Driver | May 19 10:56 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not bleeding edge | May 19 10:56 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't agree on that | May 19 10:56 |
| oiaohm | Debian is too much stick in mud. | May 19 10:56 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora is the real bleeding edge Distro | May 19 10:56 |
| _Hicham_ | no distro is ahead of it | May 19 10:56 |
| AWR | a head of its fail | May 19 10:57 |
| oiaohm | Debian Sid is equal to Fedora. | May 19 10:57 |
| _Hicham_ | no | May 19 10:57 |
| _Hicham_ | Debian Sid in way behind Fedora | May 19 10:57 |
| oiaohm | There is a difference. | May 19 10:57 |
| _Hicham_ | what is the Difference? | May 19 10:57 |
| oiaohm | Sid takes the latest packages from software markers with min alterations. | May 19 10:58 |
| _Hicham_ | plus, Sid is less stable than Fedora | May 19 10:58 |
| _Hicham_ | no | May 19 10:58 |
| _Hicham_ | Sid makes patches | May 19 10:58 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora do not | May 19 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Fedora uses more svn stuff. | May 19 10:58 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora is closest distro to upstream projects | May 19 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Basically there is no distribution with perfect. | May 19 10:59 |
| oiaohm | For end users. | May 19 10:59 |
| _Hicham_ | they ship almost vanilla versions | May 19 10:59 |
| oiaohm | Almost is a key word when you come to debugging. | May 19 10:59 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm, so much for family friendly | May 19 10:59 |
| oiaohm | Wine is almost vanilla on Fedora other than a non approved pulseaudio support. | May 19 10:59 |
| _Hicham_ | so when reporting a bug, you don't have to install the vanilla version | May 19 10:59 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora pushes things ahead | May 19 11:00 |
| oiaohm | That does create some strange bugs. | May 19 11:00 |
| _Hicham_ | there must some bleeding edge distro | May 19 11:00 |
| oiaohm | There is push ahead and then there is what fedora and msot other distributions think they have the right to do. | May 19 11:00 |
| DaemonFC | http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8296/37423252.png | May 19 11:01 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 19 11:01 |
| _Hicham_ | if no one do it? how can we have prove the technology? | May 19 11:01 |
| oiaohm | If fedroa pushed forward and labeled wine like fedora wine so there alteration was like OK tampered with that. | May 19 11:01 |
| DaemonFC | lookie what I found | May 19 11:01 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 11:01 |
| oiaohm | It would be nicer for upstream maintainers _Hicham_ | May 19 11:01 |
| oiaohm | Basically debians Fedora... All abuse upstream. | May 19 11:01 |
| oiaohm | By not labeling what they have altered. | May 19 11:02 |
| oiaohm | Lot of upstream would love to be able to release for all distributions at once to cut this crap out. | May 19 11:02 |
| _Hicham_ | some projects start doing it | May 19 11:02 |
| _Hicham_ | wine, openoffice | May 19 11:03 |
| oiaohm | Wine was forced to. | May 19 11:03 |
| _Hicham_ | if Firefox offers rpms and debs also | May 19 11:03 |
| oiaohm | Wine at one point had over 95 percent of bugs being worked on turning out to be distribution caused. | May 19 11:03 |
| oiaohm | That is one hell of a waste of resources. | May 19 11:03 |
| oiaohm | Yes caused by distribition added patches. | May 19 11:04 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora strives to not add patches | May 19 11:04 |
| oiaohm | They could label better where they do. | May 19 11:04 |
| oiaohm | If you read the GPL licence part of it requires are that you do label alterations clearly. | May 19 11:05 |
| _Hicham_ | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/WhyUpstream | May 19 11:05 |
| oiaohm | Fedora upstream policy is good. | May 19 11:06 |
| _Hicham_ | you must make a difference | May 19 11:06 |
| oiaohm | It the policy when they don't that needs a little more work. | May 19 11:06 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora and Debian are very different when it comes to upstream | May 19 11:07 |
| oiaohm | Changeing what is return on version string of program would be advistable. | May 19 11:07 |
| AWR | /ctcp oiaohm version | May 19 11:07 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora is a launchpad for new technologies | May 19 11:07 |
| _Hicham_ | like KMS | May 19 11:07 |
| _Hicham_ | you must admit that | May 19 11:07 |
| _Hicham_ | KMS was available since 2.6.27 | May 19 11:08 |
| oiaohm | wine --version what is the wine version request command can be altered to report alteration AWR. | May 19 11:08 |
| _Hicham_ | and now it is a mature state for Radeon cards | May 19 11:08 |
| oiaohm | Lot of other program have those features. | May 19 11:08 |
| oiaohm | This way people giving support can give distribution netrual instructiosn to find the version. | May 19 11:08 |
| *AWR has quit (""FAIL ON"") | May 19 11:08 | |
| oiaohm | KMS was backported in 2.6.27 by fedora. | May 19 11:09 |
| oiaohm | It was not part of 2.6.27 default kernel. | May 19 11:09 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | May 19 11:09 |
| _Hicham_ | to help test it | May 19 11:09 |
| oiaohm | backported not the word. | May 19 11:09 |
| oiaohm | Extra tree merged in. | May 19 11:09 |
| _Hicham_ | and now it is doing well | May 19 11:10 |
| _Hicham_ | because it was tested | May 19 11:10 |
| oiaohm | Linus has a major grip with number of complier errors fedora lets stand. | May 19 11:10 |
| _Hicham_ | compiler errors are better than security holes | May 19 11:10 |
| oiaohm | Errorless build is something that is a general main kernel requirement. | May 19 11:10 |
| oiaohm | Compiler errors can be warning about points that are security holes. | May 19 11:11 |
| _Hicham_ | remember the openssl hole in debian | May 19 11:11 |
| _Hicham_ | not always | May 19 11:11 |
| _Hicham_ | they may be gcc bugs | May 19 11:11 |
| oiaohm | If you don't inspect them and remove them you don't know. | May 19 11:11 |
| _Hicham_ | and you know that very well | May 19 11:11 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe it is gcc | May 19 11:11 |
| _Hicham_ | not the code | May 19 11:11 |
| _Hicham_ | how can you know | May 19 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Even if its gcc there are ways to stop gcc spitting our errors. | May 19 11:12 |
| _Hicham_ | Linus uses Fedora by the way | May 19 11:12 |
| oiaohm | It is a true problem. | May 19 11:13 |
| oiaohm | That Fedora builders are not taking complier errors serousally enough. | May 19 11:13 |
| _Hicham_ | I know | May 19 11:13 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe because the build was ok by Portland Group Compiler | May 19 11:14 |
| _Hicham_ | who knows? | May 19 11:14 |
| _Hicham_ | they must have certain reasons | May 19 11:14 |
| oiaohm | Its more they don't take it serousally. | May 19 11:14 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't think that | May 19 11:15 |
| _Hicham_ | because it is more optimized than the other distros | May 19 11:15 |
| oiaohm | Every time a new Fedora kernel maintainer comes accross and puts in a patch for upstream Linux kernel. | May 19 11:15 |
| oiaohm | It normally has complier errors and Linus basically rips into them. | May 19 11:15 |
| oiaohm | After they make the same very bad error. The warning was not important line. Never say that to linus | May 19 11:16 |
| _Hicham_ | some warnings are not important | May 19 11:16 |
| _Hicham_ | true | May 19 11:16 |
| _Hicham_ | like : this function was deprecated | May 19 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Linus line is if you have stack of not important warnings can you not miss seeing a important one. | May 19 11:17 |
| _Hicham_ | or : this variable was never used, ...etc | May 19 11:17 |
| _Hicham_ | you can see the output | May 19 11:17 |
| _Hicham_ | and filter it | May 19 11:17 |
| oiaohm | variable never used can be important. | May 19 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Like not set a secuirty feature. | May 19 11:18 |
| _Hicham_ | can be important yes | May 19 11:18 |
| schestowitz | tessier is probably asleep. | May 19 11:18 |
| oiaohm | This is the problem. | May 19 11:18 |
| _Hicham_ | but sometimes the compiler just issue the warning | May 19 11:18 |
| _Hicham_ | even if the variable is used somewhere | May 19 11:18 |
| oiaohm | Every warn no matter how minor could be important. | May 19 11:18 |
| *DaemonFC treats schestowitz to http://kevincarmony.com/linspire_videos/RunLinspire.swf | May 19 11:18 | |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 11:18 |
| oiaohm | You will not know until you check it out _Hicham_ | May 19 11:18 |
| oiaohm | and when you are checking it out fixing is not hard. | May 19 11:19 |
| _Hicham_ | a 100% warning free compilation does not exist | May 19 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Build raw kernel source some time. | May 19 11:19 |
| oiaohm | 100% warning free does exist. | May 19 11:20 |
| oiaohm | Many project mainatain that status. | May 19 11:20 |
| oiaohm | You should be able to get 100 percent warning free build on the same age gcc the developers were using. | May 19 11:20 |
| DaemonFC | if you can build Linux without any compiler warnings.......welll | May 19 11:21 |
| DaemonFC | that would be awesome | May 19 11:21 |
| _Hicham_ | not always oiaohm | May 19 11:21 |
| _Hicham_ | gcc changes | May 19 11:21 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: he makes fun of Doors | May 19 11:21 |
| oiaohm | I said same version gcc _Hicham_ | May 19 11:21 |
| oiaohm | You should always be able to get it. | May 19 11:21 |
| oiaohm | If you cannot someone has stuffed up. You see lot of patches enter the mainline Linux kernel to maintain that status of complier warnings. | May 19 11:22 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yeah, that's what clains want to hear | May 19 11:23 |
| schestowitz | "set MS on fire" | May 19 11:23 |
| oiaohm | Some time major bugs are found because of it. | May 19 11:23 |
| schestowitz | Can't wait to show this to the CIO.. | May 19 11:23 |
| DaemonFC | http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5108/63714707.png | May 19 11:24 |
| _Hicham_ | do upstream kernel uses the latest version of gcc? | May 19 11:25 |
| DaemonFC | http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9347/77805460.png | May 19 11:26 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : why do u post those images? | May 19 11:27 |
| oiaohm | Some do _Hicham_ . Lastest stable release of gcc is used the stable branch before release. _Hicham_ | May 19 11:27 |
| DaemonFC | meh | May 19 11:27 |
| oiaohm | Fedora has a habit of running gcc ahead of that. Even so upstreaming fixs to those errors will still be accepted. | May 19 11:27 |
| MinceR | he's pimping his 31337 0-day \/|574 |)35|<+0p | May 19 11:27 |
| DaemonFC | I have obsessive compulsive screenshot disorder | May 19 11:27 |
| schestowitz | Todd R. Weiss writes for Linux.com: http://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/biz-enterprise/10672-how-to-talk-to-your-ciocto-about-using-linux-and-open-source-i | May 19 11:28 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : so in your opinion, distros should use only the stable versions? | May 19 11:28 |
| schestowitz | So weird to find him there.... | May 19 11:28 |
| schestowitz | He's no Linux guru either, despite what it days | May 19 11:29 |
| schestowitz | *says | May 19 11:29 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is doing a lot of crazy things lately | May 19 11:29 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: should at least be able to provide the stable versions _Hicham_ | May 19 11:29 |
| _Hicham_ | who will develop and test then? | May 19 11:29 |
| oiaohm | projects don't create stable versions for no good reason. | May 19 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Stable we know this works so good. If you need more features then use development. | May 19 11:30 |
| _Hicham_ | stable versions are suitable for production machines | May 19 11:30 |
| oiaohm | Stable versions also allow ruling out if it just a bad patch in the development version too or something else. | May 19 11:31 |
| DaemonFC | meh, Ubuntu wastes a lot of opportunities with their alpha/beta process | May 19 11:31 |
| DaemonFC | and even when something is obviously broken, they won't fix it | May 19 11:31 |
| DaemonFC | because they decided which version of it to use a month before the alpha builds started | May 19 11:31 |
| oiaohm | Not having the stable versions does make support harder to isolate where the problem is _Hicham_ | May 19 11:32 |
| _Hicham_ | what about syncing to upstream? | May 19 11:32 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: I doubt anyone that wants official paid support would use one of the 6 month releases | May 19 11:32 |
| _Hicham_ | in development and release? | May 19 11:32 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : no one would want to | May 19 11:32 |
| oiaohm | sync up stream should happen. But the problem I am refering to is diagnostics. | May 19 11:33 |
| DaemonFC | the idea of having to format a server and start over every 6 months is not going to go over very well | May 19 11:33 |
| DaemonFC | thats why they do these long term support versions | May 19 11:33 |
| DaemonFC | their support for LTS is still less than Debian or Red Hat, or even Microsoft Windows | May 19 11:34 |
| DaemonFC | I think Red Hat and Debian go 7 years | May 19 11:34 |
| oiaohm | If you have stable version of firefox and beta version of firefox and only the beta cannot render a page you know you have a probem in the beta. | May 19 11:34 |
| DaemonFC | and Windows is 10? | May 19 11:34 |
| oiaohm | Define 10 | May 19 11:34 |
| DaemonFC | 5 years of mainstream support and 5 years Extended | May 19 11:34 |
| _Hicham_ | I have Firefox beta | May 19 11:35 |
| DaemonFC | Extended just means security hotfixes and paid support | May 19 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Remember you have to pay to get access to the full extended. | May 19 11:35 |
| DaemonFC | the security hotfixes are still free | May 19 11:35 |
| DaemonFC | while you're in Extended | May 19 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Redhat when you hit 7 allows next version free 1. | May 19 11:36 |
| oiaohm | So its more like 14 | May 19 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 19 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Before you have to pay. | May 19 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | yeah I know they still support RHEL 4 | May 19 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | that's a good long lived distribution | May 19 11:36 |
| oiaohm | MS there is no upgrade out policy. | May 19 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | I think the idea is that you should only have to deploy it once | May 19 11:37 |
| DaemonFC | Upgrade discs are cheaper than the full version | May 19 11:37 |
| _Hicham_ | Upgrade is a bad idea | May 19 11:37 |
| DaemonFC | you can do a clean install off an Upgrade disc | May 19 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Running with bad parts is also a bad idea. | May 19 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | you don't even need to have a previous copy | May 19 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | what you do is install Vista Upgrade without a serial number and without activating | May 19 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | then immediately isntall it over itself | May 19 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | from within Windows | May 19 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | and that counts as an "upgrade" apparently | May 19 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | hell if I know why | May 19 11:39 |
| _Hicham_ | from my previous experience, upgrades are always a bad idea | May 19 11:39 |
| DaemonFC | it's not really an upgrade | May 19 11:39 |
| _Hicham_ | better reinstall everything | May 19 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Windows upgrades are not that clean. | May 19 11:39 |
| DaemonFC | you're installing the same thing | May 19 11:39 |
| DaemonFC | over a clean copy | May 19 11:39 |
| _Hicham_ | it is less overhead | May 19 11:39 |
| DaemonFC | so it should work fine | May 19 11:39 |
| _Hicham_ | no | May 19 11:39 |
| oiaohm | I had very few problems from Linux distribution updates. | May 19 11:39 |
| _Hicham_ | it won't work fine | May 19 11:39 |
| DaemonFC | oh bullshit | May 19 11:40 |
| DaemonFC | I upgraded one system from Windows 98 to Me to XP | May 19 11:40 |
| oiaohm | Windows screws the pooch in places in the regesitry. | May 19 11:40 |
| oiaohm | I guess you run registry cleanners to clean it up DaemonFC | May 19 11:40 |
| DaemonFC | I've had more trouble trying to upgrade Ubuntu over itself than Windows | May 19 11:40 |
| DaemonFC | especially if you've sat out one version | May 19 11:41 |
| DaemonFC | or more | May 19 11:41 |
| DaemonFC | I tried to upgrade a machine from Edgy 6.10 last week that just wasn't having it | May 19 11:41 |
| oiaohm | There is a way todo that. | May 19 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Its not as nice as it should be. | May 19 11:42 |
| _Hicham_ | from edgy to jaunty? | May 19 11:42 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 19 11:42 |
| oiaohm | I have done edgy to jaunty. | May 19 11:42 |
| DaemonFC | I edited my apt sources list and then it spent about 20 minutes calculating the upgrade | May 19 11:43 |
| DaemonFC | then it spit out an error message | May 19 11:43 |
| oiaohm | There are a few minor package mapping problems. | May 19 11:43 |
| oiaohm | That is solve very wraped. | May 19 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Add all the package lists of the versions in the middle. | May 19 11:44 |
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| oiaohm | And somehow apt works it out. | May 19 11:44 |
| oiaohm | I suspect it installs a few packages from the distrubtions in middle to solve problem. | May 19 11:45 |
| _Hicham_ | so it is more like you gonna upgrade to intermediate versions | May 19 11:46 |
| _Hicham_ | ie : 6.10->7.04->7.10->8.04->8.10->9.04 | May 19 11:46 |
| oiaohm | Ones you need are 6.10 7.10 8.10 and 9.04 to do the migration jump. | May 19 11:47 |
| oiaohm | You can skip the .04 for some reason. | May 19 11:47 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 19 11:48 |
| _Hicham_ | why do the upgrade in first place? | May 19 11:48 |
| _Hicham_ | better backup your home directory and do a fresh install | May 19 11:49 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: its a feature of deb distributions. | May 19 11:50 |
| oiaohm | That you can only upgrade so far without having to take middle steps. | May 19 11:50 |
| oiaohm | Yes I agree it suxs to those who are not aware. | May 19 11:50 |
| oiaohm | If you tried going straight from windows 95 to XP you would hit some headaches too. | May 19 11:51 |
| oiaohm | apt is coded to fail then do a upgrade that will be completely destroyed. | May 19 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | iMagicOS is the future of Linux | May 19 11:54 |
| DaemonFC | they say so | May 19 11:54 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 11:54 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 19 11:54 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.longene.org/en/ Another group has a different idea DaemonFC | May 19 11:56 |
| oiaohm | Every group has different ideas there will be a winner. | May 19 11:57 |
| *schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoGmk4U5Egw&NR=1 | May 19 11:58 | |
| oiaohm | longene inlcude the idea of taking the MS drivers and Linux drivers and getting max compadiblity. | May 19 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Reactos has the idea clone windows. | May 19 11:59 |
| DaemonFC | I hope they succeed | May 19 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Between it all someone will win. | May 19 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | wish them all the luck in the world | May 19 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | if they make a free Windows compatible system | May 19 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | it will ruin Microsoft | May 19 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | regardless of if you like Windows or not, that's still a win | May 19 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Really does not matter if its longene or reactos. | May 19 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | could you imagine Microsoft customers flocking to ReactOS en masse cause all their Windows software works on it | May 19 12:01 |
| _Hicham_ | I want open source to win | May 19 12:01 |
| DaemonFC | then Microsoft, with nothing to sell anyone, and no authority on Windows-like systems just withers | May 19 12:01 |
| DaemonFC | and dies | May 19 12:01 |
| DaemonFC | that would be fairly cool | May 19 12:01 |
| oiaohm | longene is really more threating. | May 19 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Since hardware MS does not support anymore Linux kernel still does. | May 19 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Basically fuse the two OS's with the most hardware support into 1. | May 19 12:03 |
| DaemonFC | well, the main reason Linux isn't taking off is because there's SO MUCH hardware and software it can't use | May 19 12:03 |
| DaemonFC | if that wasn't the case, I doubt anyone has love for Microsoft | May 19 12:03 |
| DaemonFC | so they'd go under pretty fast | May 19 12:03 |
| oiaohm | The are blocks of hardware MS does not support. Lot people forget about webcams and other items that no longer work with XP that worked with 2000 and same with XP to Vista. | May 19 12:04 |
| oiaohm | There are incompadiblitys in both camps. | May 19 12:05 |
| oiaohm | Linux has more issues with new hardware. | May 19 12:05 |
| oiaohm | MS has more issues with old hardware. | May 19 12:05 |
| DaemonFC | XP and Vista both support WDM drivers | May 19 12:05 |
| DaemonFC | just run the installer in XP SP 2 Compatibility Mode | May 19 12:06 |
| DaemonFC | and it will usually quit bitching and install | May 19 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Not all cases. | May 19 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Not all drivers are what you call nice. | May 19 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Some hook to memory addresses only in XP so when put in Vista will kill the system. | May 19 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Basically non certified stuff is loto. | May 19 12:07 |
| oiaohm | In there are drivers that will kill the system. | May 19 12:08 |
| oiaohm | Windows 7 looks to be worse on hardware support. | May 19 12:08 |
| DaemonFC | I noticed | May 19 12:09 |
| oiaohm | Old hardware Linux is king. New hardware windows is. | May 19 12:10 |
| oiaohm | That is why the merge would be great. | May 19 12:10 |
| DaemonFC | I'd like to be able to use a completed ReactOS | May 19 12:11 |
| DaemonFC | that would certainly be preferable | May 19 12:11 |
| DaemonFC | it says it only needs 32 megs of RAM | May 19 12:11 |
| oiaohm | Less at moment. | May 19 12:11 |
| DaemonFC | thats the same requirement as Windows 2000 | May 19 12:11 |
| oiaohm | It will just operating in 24 | May 19 12:11 |
| _Hicham_ | swfdec has still a huge cpu usage | May 19 12:12 |
| oiaohm | But there are still a lot of features missing. | May 19 12:12 |
| _Hicham_ | just like gnash | May 19 12:12 |
| _Hicham_ | I heard that it is X related | May 19 12:12 |
| _Hicham_ | is the X server the cause in ur opinion oiaohm? | May 19 12:12 |
| oiaohm | what is your driver dri1? | May 19 12:12 |
| oiaohm | If its dri2 x11 should not be. | May 19 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Issue with dri1 there is no video card memory manager in control of everything. | May 19 12:13 |
| oiaohm | So blocks of memory end up duplicated in normally memory to restore to video card as required. | May 19 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Tracking in dri1 of that is not great so you do end up with some high memory usages. | May 19 12:14 |
| oiaohm | Dri2 has a proper video card memory manager so issue does not happen. | May 19 12:14 |
| _Hicham_ | I have dri2 | May 19 12:16 |
| _Hicham_ | did u use gnash or swfdec without high cpu problems? | May 19 12:16 |
| oiaohm | I don't use them at moment. | May 19 12:16 |
| _Hicham_ | that is what i am talking about | May 19 12:16 |
| oiaohm | gnash and swfdec don't take advantage of the video card for decoding either. | May 19 12:17 |
| _Hicham_ | gnash and swfdec seem to have the same problem | May 19 12:17 |
| oiaohm | adobe flash uses some opengl. | May 19 12:17 |
| oiaohm | And some shader code. | May 19 12:18 |
| oiaohm | Does make a large difference on cpu usage. | May 19 12:18 |
| DaemonFC | Flash 10 uses DirectX on Windows | May 19 12:18 |
| DaemonFC | and OpenGL on Linux and Mac | May 19 12:18 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why it uses less resources? | May 19 12:18 |
| oiaohm | Most of it _Hicham_ | May 19 12:19 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't why gnash doesn't do the same | May 19 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Also adobe active script JIT is better than gnash or swfdec | May 19 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Basically because no one has coded it to _Hicham_ | May 19 12:19 |
| oiaohm | blender.org a 3d editor use to suck the living live out system before a few 3d game programmers decide to work on it recent. | May 19 12:21 |
| oiaohm | Made gnash look friendly. | May 19 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | most of the stuff the FSF makes don't actually work | May 19 12:21 |
| oiaohm | 8 core system over 100 percent load rendering. | May 19 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | their compiler and libraries are the exception | May 19 12:21 |
| oiaohm | Same thing now renders realtime at 60 frames per second. | May 19 12:22 |
| DaemonFC | there's a huge gap between what real people would want to use and what a room of geeks will put out | May 19 12:22 |
| oiaohm | With almost no cpu load. | May 19 12:22 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: there is not a big gap. | May 19 12:23 |
| oiaohm | Its funding. | May 19 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | if the FSF made it and it has user interaction through a GUI | May 19 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | it will suck | May 19 12:23 |
| oiaohm | Blender project has worked out how to get its funding. | May 19 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | that seems to be the rule | May 19 12:23 |
| oiaohm | Since then its gone ahead in leaps and bounds. | May 19 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | Blender sucks on Vista | May 19 12:24 |
| DaemonFC | but for some reason it works fine on Windows 7 | May 19 12:24 |
| DaemonFC | and XP | May 19 12:24 |
| oiaohm | Opengl stack. | May 19 12:24 |
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| DaemonFC | well it's fine on Vista, till you maximize it | May 19 12:24 |
| DaemonFC | then get ready for slooooooooooooow | May 19 12:24 |
| oiaohm | Disable aroe Ok that fancy screen disapply of Vista. | May 19 12:25 |
| DaemonFC | that doesn't help | May 19 12:25 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft offered to let Blender come over and learn how to make it work well on Vista | May 19 12:25 |
| DaemonFC | and I believe they blew them off | May 19 12:25 |
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| oiaohm | For one big reason. | May 19 12:26 |
| oiaohm | MS said port to Direct X | May 19 12:26 |
| oiaohm | Not how to make Opengl work. | May 19 12:26 |
| DaemonFC | and no I don't think that software should work WORSE jsut cause it's on Vista | May 19 12:26 |
| DaemonFC | or Windows | May 19 12:26 |
| _Hicham_ | Vista do not support OpenGL very well | May 19 12:26 |
| DaemonFC | these free software projects discriminate and it makes all of them look bad | May 19 12:26 |
| oiaohm | You would have been using non business version of vista | May 19 12:26 |
| DaemonFC | and Vista supports OpenGL just fine | May 19 12:26 |
| DaemonFC | even the OpenGL people said that was jsut a myth | May 19 12:27 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.opengl.org/pipeline/article/vol003_7/ | May 19 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Particular operations in Opengl trip the DRM system. | May 19 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Business does not have DRM. | May 19 12:27 |
| DaemonFC | "OpenGL and Direct3D are treated the same by Windows Vista, resulting in full integration into the OS for both APIs. " | May 19 12:27 |
| DaemonFC | "Just like Windows XP, Windows Vista does not contain an OpenGL ICD "in the box." End users will need to install drivers from OEMs or video hardware manufacturers in order to access native hardware-accelerated OpenGL." | May 19 12:28 |
| _Hicham_ | no | May 19 12:28 |
| _Hicham_ | OpenGL is mapped to DirectX | May 19 12:28 |
| DaemonFC | the OpenGL people say it works fine on Vista | May 19 12:29 |
| DaemonFC | and DirectX is not getting prefeerrential treatment | May 19 12:29 |
| oiaohm | Notice all the special instructions there. | May 19 12:29 |
| DaemonFC | I think they would probably be crying foul if they were being crippled | May 19 12:29 |
| oiaohm | Opengl does not just work right. | May 19 12:30 |
| DaemonFC | don't you? | May 19 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Note Direct X application taking fullscreen and not signed had same probems as blender. | May 19 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Did not happen with Business version of vista. | May 19 12:31 |
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| oiaohm | Windows 7 does not do it. | May 19 12:31 |
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| oiaohm | MS has not been nice enough to include that fix in a SP for Vista | May 19 12:31 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the opengl programs were unsigned causing the myth of it opengl being worse. | May 19 12:32 |
| tacone | uh ? technorati working again ? | May 19 12:33 |
| schestowitz | bbl | May 19 12:33 |
| schestowitz | I need to wait till tessier wakes up and swaps DBs | May 19 12:33 |
| tacone | no, not really working again yet | May 19 12:35 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.eofw.org/bench/ << Notice DaemonFC using right versions of Vista with Blender its performance is fine. Also notice machine as number 7. | May 19 12:42 |
| oiaohm | It is just a pain getting vista setup right DaemonFC. | May 19 12:45 |
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| _Hicham_ | I am compiling latest gnash on Fedora | May 19 12:52 |
| _Hicham_ | and see if it will work | May 19 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | May 19 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | Winamp supported Windows 98 til October 2007 | May 19 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 12:53 |
| _Hicham_ | Audacious is more powerful than Winamp | May 19 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 19 12:54 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but it can only play two formats legally | May 19 12:54 |
| DaemonFC | which is why Red Hat, Mandriva, and most distributions not based in tax havens and third world countries split off the plugins that they can't redistribute | May 19 12:57 |
| _Hicham_ | there is plugins | May 19 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | so then you have to go hunt for them and technically break the law | May 19 12:58 |
| _Hicham_ | that you can find easily | May 19 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Ubuntu redistributes illegal codecs | May 19 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | and doesn't seem to give much thought to it | May 19 12:59 |
| _Hicham_ | like Mandriva One | May 19 12:59 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva One is licensed | May 19 12:59 |
| _Hicham_ | to ease the user's experience | May 19 12:59 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu ships pirate codecs | May 19 12:59 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 19 12:59 |
| _Hicham_ | how is Mandriva licensed? | May 19 12:59 |
| DaemonFC | well, not on the CD, that way the CDs stay legal | May 19 12:59 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva pays royalties | May 19 12:59 |
| DaemonFC | to Fluendo S.A. | May 19 12:59 |
| _Hicham_ | on their PowerPack version | May 19 13:00 |
| DaemonFC | no, on the One version too | May 19 13:00 |
| DaemonFC | they're all licensed or redistributable (Flash and such) | May 19 13:00 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia drivers | May 19 13:00 |
| _Hicham_ | give me some example of illegal codecs in Ubuntu, shipped out of the box | May 19 13:00 |
| DaemonFC | out of box, none | May 19 13:00 |
| DaemonFC | but they facilitate it | May 19 13:00 |
| DaemonFC | through illegal downloads | May 19 13:00 |
| oiaohm | Flash and nvidia drivers dont' need a extra licence to redistribute. | May 19 13:01 |
| tacone | mp3 codecs | May 19 13:01 |
| tacone | dvd codecs | May 19 13:01 |
| DaemonFC | I know, those are redistributable | May 19 13:01 |
| _Hicham_ | normal | May 19 13:01 |
| tacone | are not legal in us and a bunch of other stupid country | May 19 13:01 |
| tacone | countries | May 19 13:01 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu facilities illegal unlicensed codecdistribution | May 19 13:01 |
| tacone | they're legal in a lot of other countries anyway | May 19 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Big question on that. | May 19 13:01 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Russia and Iran | May 19 13:01 |
| DaemonFC | and Mexicco | May 19 13:01 |
| oiaohm | source country of Ubuntu its not illegal. | May 19 13:01 |
| _Hicham_ | mp3 codecs are not redistributable? | May 19 13:01 |
| DaemonFC | *Mexico | May 19 13:01 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 19 13:01 |
| tacone | in europe there's no such thing as illegal unlicensed codec distr. | May 19 13:02 |
| _Hicham_ | gnash takes a lot of time to compile | May 19 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | Russian Black Market Vista | May 19 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | rofl | May 19 13:02 |
| tacone | we have no software patents, at least for now | May 19 13:02 |
| _Hicham_ | it is more than 10 minutes now | May 19 13:02 |
| tacone | if the world was just europe, Mono would be a viable language. | May 19 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | well, if your country is in the WTO | May 19 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | just wait | May 19 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 13:02 |
| oiaohm | Also some patents in Australia are invalid. | May 19 13:02 |
| tacone | that doesn't mean anything | May 19 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Even with the WTO. | May 19 13:03 |
| DaemonFC | the WTO will rewrite all your laws | May 19 13:03 |
| DaemonFC | and kill all your politicians that won't be corrupted | May 19 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Because they were done in entrapment. | May 19 13:03 |
| tacone | europe rejected sw patents. although corporation still try to get them in | May 19 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Mp3 is one of those. | May 19 13:03 |
| DaemonFC | it's legal to redistribute MP3 | May 19 13:03 |
| DaemonFC | as long as it's the Fluendo codec | May 19 13:03 |
| oiaohm | You must mark a item you are going to take otu a patent on as patent pending mp3 did not. | May 19 13:03 |
| oiaohm | So Australian law the base Mp3 patent is void. | May 19 13:04 |
| oiaohm | It was taken out illegally. | May 19 13:04 |
| DaemonFC | MP3 is a dinosaur | May 19 13:04 |
| DaemonFC | LAME just smooths over some of the warts | May 19 13:04 |
| oiaohm | There are quite a few USA patents that are also void. | May 19 13:05 |
| oiaohm | Simple error of protocal. | May 19 13:05 |
| oiaohm | Submerine patents are not legal here. | May 19 13:05 |
| DaemonFC | MP3 is technically obsolete even if it wasn't patented | May 19 13:05 |
| DaemonFC | but so many stupid people still use it | May 19 13:06 |
| DaemonFC | you still need something that can read the files | May 19 13:06 |
| _Hicham_ | because that is what they know | May 19 13:06 |
| _Hicham_ | BBC has began some streaming in ogg format | May 19 13:06 |
| oiaohm | USA companies love tricking people into using a format | May 19 13:07 |
| oiaohm | Then create a patent withotu notice. | May 19 13:07 |
| oiaohm | So there are massive numbers of patents that don't apply. | May 19 13:07 |
| Omar87 | Hi all | May 19 13:08 |
| oiaohm | MP3 is used because its a dominate format that plays in the most devices DaemonFC | May 19 13:08 |
| oiaohm | Same kind of reason why fat become a standard. | May 19 13:09 |
| _Hicham_ | مرحبا بالسيد عمر | May 19 13:10 |
| DaemonFC | "In short, with Thomson, Fraunhofer IIS, Sisvel (and its U.S. subsidiary Audio MPEG), Texas MP3 Technologies, and Alcatel-Lucent all claiming legal control of relevant MP3 patents related to decoders, the legal status of MP3 remains unclear in countries where those patents are valid." | May 19 13:10 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 19 13:10 |
| DaemonFC | so the issue of who exactly owns the patents is keeping them from effectively enforcing them | May 19 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | that's pretty funny | May 19 13:11 |
| tacone | still they sell licenses | May 19 13:11 |
| _Hicham_ | patents stop science progress | May 19 13:11 |
| tacone | and lucent successfully bullied and fined microsoft | May 19 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | tacone: So if I buy a license from one company that claims to own MP3 | May 19 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | that doesn't protect me from the other 5 | May 19 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | right? | May 19 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 19 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Yep 100 percent right. | May 19 13:12 |
| tacone | i don't know, but maybe.. :-) | May 19 13:12 |
| oiaohm | That is the other problem. | May 19 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | too funny | May 19 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Many formats also have patent overlap. | May 19 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: I fucking hate Fruanhofer anyway | May 19 13:12 |
| oiaohm | So making the not enforceable. | May 19 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | they killed off the best MP3 decoder engine there was | May 19 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | Nitrane | May 19 13:13 |
| tacone | if you pay you're always good | May 19 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | (at the time at least) | May 19 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Because until they sort out who owns it you don't have to legally pay either. | May 19 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | I stuck with the old 2.5 version of Winamp for a long time | May 19 13:13 |
| tacone | if you pay the wrong people you can then sue him for fraud | May 19 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | jsut cause it had Nitrane | May 19 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | and the new ones had the reference decoder | May 19 13:13 |
| oiaohm | tacone: you can pass it to the court. | May 19 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Both charge different rates. | May 19 13:14 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: أهلا سيد هشام. :) | May 19 13:14 |
| _Hicham_ | كيف حال الإخوان في الأردن؟ | May 19 13:14 |
| Omar87 | Speaking of ASUS's betrayal, what is the best netbook brand for Linux? | May 19 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Problem with patent over lap is patent could be invalid by not being unque enough. | May 19 13:15 |
| _Hicham_ | what ASUS betrayal are you talking of Omar87? | May 19 13:15 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: الحمد لله كيف حال إخواننا في المغرب؟ | May 19 13:16 |
| oiaohm | ASUS still has linux on there machines. | May 19 13:16 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/17/reversal-after-eee-germany-kickbacks-sjvn/ | May 19 13:16 |
| DaemonFC | Перейти ебешь себе | May 19 13:16 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm: I know, but the specifications of the Linux pre-installed ones are worse than those with Windows. | May 19 13:17 |
| tacone | oh, stop writing arabic. you all terrorists | May 19 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | mine was Russian | May 19 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 13:17 |
| _Hicham_ | Omar87 : المغرب بخير و الحمد لله، الكل يبلغ لك أحر السلام | May 19 13:17 |
| oiaohm | The windows ones also ship with a Linux Omar87 | May 19 13:17 |
| _Hicham_ | tacone : do u mean what u are saying? | May 19 13:18 |
| tacone | DaemonFC: i know | May 19 13:18 |
| oiaohm | ASUS is taking kick backs to lower price. | May 19 13:18 |
| tacone | _Hicham_: you're insulting me with that question | May 19 13:18 |
| _Hicham_ | tacone : so u r just kidding? | May 19 13:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Firefox 3.5beta4 is so slow on BN | May 19 13:20 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe it is debug-info related | May 19 13:21 |
| DaemonFC | meh, I've been pretty skeptical of Firefox since it was announced | May 19 13:22 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think there was anthing too wrong with Mozilla Suite that couldn't have been ironed out with a few trivial patches | May 19 13:22 |
| DaemonFC | at the time though, AOL basically still controlled Mozilla | May 19 13:23 |
| DaemonFC | and the only way to develop anything better seemed to be to fork it | May 19 13:23 |
| DaemonFC | funny how silly and stupid and pointless Firefox turned out to be when it seemed so urgent back then | May 19 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | There was actually a Netscape customization kit that also happened to find it's way back to Mozilla | May 19 13:25 |
| DaemonFC | which could create trimmed down installations of Mozilla | May 19 13:26 |
| DaemonFC | which is why I don't really accept their no bloat argument | May 19 13:26 |
| DaemonFC | just remove the XPIs from Mozilla Suite | May 19 13:26 |
| oiaohm | Firefox was early expermints working to web based applciations. | May 19 13:26 |
| oiaohm | R&D stuff sometimes take a long path. | May 19 13:27 |
| DaemonFC | I got used to Firefox somehow, usually cause it's what's there and well supported in most Linux distros | May 19 13:27 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't mean I am crazy about it | May 19 13:27 |
| oiaohm | I am not crazy about IE either. | May 19 13:28 |
| DaemonFC | I stuck to SeaMonkey in Fedora for a while and got tired of filling pout a bug report | May 19 13:28 |
| DaemonFC | every time a new version was out | May 19 13:28 |
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| DaemonFC | asking for it to be packaged | May 19 13:28 |
| DaemonFC | *out | May 19 13:28 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: I'm still not sure Firefox was necessary | May 19 13:30 |
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| DaemonFC | a few user interface and installer patches against Mozilla Suite would have done a better job than the fork has produced | May 19 13:31 |
| DaemonFC | almost no development has been done on SeaMonkey in the last several years other than to shove in the newest Geck engine | May 19 13:31 |
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| DaemonFC | *Gecko | May 19 13:32 |
| DaemonFC | Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.0.10) Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10 GTB5 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729) | May 19 13:33 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz | May 19 13:33 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft has infected Firefox 3 on Vista finally | May 19 13:33 |
| DaemonFC | errr | May 19 13:33 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7 | May 19 13:33 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 13:33 |
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| _Hicham_ | finalled compiled gnash | May 19 14:09 |
| _Hicham_ | it is huge | May 19 14:09 |
| DaemonFC | well yeah | May 19 14:10 |
| DaemonFC | it also needs gstreamer and codecs | May 19 14:10 |
| DaemonFC | which may piss you off | May 19 14:10 |
| DaemonFC | if you use KDE | May 19 14:10 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 14:10 |
| _Hicham_ | I noticed that there is an option to compile with OpenGL support | May 19 14:12 |
| _Hicham_ | I will recompile it with it | May 19 14:12 |
| DaemonFC | KDE and GNOME exist basically so no matter what desktop you choose you'll get half the shit from the other one | May 19 14:12 |
| DaemonFC | and all of its libraries | May 19 14:12 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft couldn't have planned that one better :) | May 19 14:12 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't use any Qt library on my machine | May 19 14:13 |
| tacone | is 'to radicate' a proper expression ? | May 19 14:20 |
| MinceR | no, but 'to eradicate' is | May 19 14:20 |
| tacone | what's the opposite of eradicate ? | May 19 14:20 |
| MinceR | oh, wait | May 19 14:21 |
| MinceR | there _is_ radicate | May 19 14:21 |
| MinceR | mw says it's in their paid version | May 19 14:21 |
| MinceR | "radicate can be found at Merriam-WebsterUnabridged.com. Click here to start your free trial! Click here to search for another word in the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary." | May 19 14:21 |
| tacone | i saw that page :( | May 19 14:21 |
| tacone | free trial :( | May 19 14:21 |
| tacone | is take roots proper ? | May 19 14:22 |
| tacone | never mind | May 19 14:28 |
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| mib_a8fvz9 | hello | May 19 14:30 |
| mib_a8fvz9 | What's this I hear about MS tinkering with ODF again? | May 19 14:31 |
| mib_a8fvz9 | When will they learn not to interfere with forces that which they do not understand? | May 19 14:32 |
| MinceR | when they realize that nothing can save them | May 19 14:35 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 19 14:36 | |
| mib_a8fvz9 | lol | May 19 14:39 |
| *mib_a8fvz9 is now known as mtnd3w | May 19 14:39 | |
| tacone | schestowitz: here ? | May 19 14:41 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know why the focus is on Novell | May 19 14:42 |
| DaemonFC | any company that had the chance to make money would do it | May 19 14:42 |
| DaemonFC | I fully expect to see Ubuntu co-opted by Microsoft at some point | May 19 14:43 |
| tacone | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/the-mono-crusade/ | May 19 14:43 |
| DaemonFC | Python? | May 19 14:44 |
| DaemonFC | You're shitting me | May 19 14:44 |
| DaemonFC | ugggh | May 19 14:45 |
| tacone | why ? | May 19 14:45 |
| tacone | is the language used by zeitgeist and ubuntu-one | May 19 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | aside from poor performance? | May 19 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | nothing I guess | May 19 14:45 |
| tacone | should have said those software were made in c ? | May 19 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | oh and gobbles RAM | May 19 14:45 |
| tacone | like every run-time | May 19 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | if you write anything bigger than Hello World you have a major problem on your hands soon | May 19 14:46 |
| tacone | i like interpreted languages | May 19 14:46 |
| tacone | sure you can't use them for everything. | May 19 14:46 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Deluge is a prime example of the kind of fucked up shit that Python makes it wasy to write | May 19 14:46 |
| DaemonFC | it only uses 12 times the RAM of Transmission | May 19 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | sacrifices must be made for progress | May 19 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | right? | May 19 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 14:47 |
| tacone | well | May 19 14:48 |
| tacone | sure some trade-off may be good | May 19 14:48 |
| tacone | i'm not a fundamentalist | May 19 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | Then you have Perl scripts which is why precisely 3 Windows users use XChat, because they don't want 100 megs of runtime to plug into a 1.5 meg IRC client to provide scripting support | May 19 14:49 |
| tacone | update-manager is made in python and that's good | May 19 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | as long as you don't need it to do anything complicated or where total disaster is unacceptable, then yeah, Python is perfect | May 19 14:50 |
| tacone | ok we agree on that | May 19 14:51 |
| DaemonFC | >I think IRC scripting is overrated and dangerous anyway, just shifting up one later I can obscure functions that delete people's files and call it an MP3 announcer :) | May 19 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu won't save you now! Bahahaha!!!! All your pr0nz are belong to us! | May 19 14:53 |
| *MinceR slaps DaemonFC around with a copy of mirc | May 19 14:54 | |
| tacone | i use pidgin. script that | May 19 14:54 |
| DaemonFC | I love how people jsut paste huge chunks of text they don't understand into the terminal, as administrator | May 19 14:55 |
| DaemonFC | people are so fucking stupid that the Ubuntu forum has a whole sticky page warning about that | May 19 14:55 |
| tacone | and many people have a signature about that. | May 19 14:55 |
| DaemonFC | I know | May 19 14:55 |
| DaemonFC | which I say let them get whatever they're stupid enough to do | May 19 14:56 |
| DaemonFC | thins the herd | May 19 14:56 |
| tacone | sudo rm / -rf has been criticized as a security vulnerability :-D | May 19 14:56 |
| tacone | well, mind that ubuntu forums is full of novices | May 19 14:56 |
| tacone | it's not really about stupidity sometime, but just about the fact you have to start somewhere. | May 19 14:56 |
| schestowitz | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/the-mono-crusade/ < brilliant | May 19 14:58 |
| DaemonFC | This is even worse than the "I pulled the power plug and XFS at my GNOME configuration files" bunch | May 19 14:58 |
| tacone | a nightmare to write, though | May 19 14:58 |
| schestowitz | "The Promised Land" = "Microsoft as emperor" | May 19 14:59 |
| tacone | they really got me angry this time | May 19 14:59 |
| DaemonFC | not that I'm naming any MinceRs | May 19 14:59 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | May 19 14:59 |
| tacone | they should just shut up | May 19 14:59 |
| schestowitz | tacone: wait until it goes on the Monodar | May 19 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Mono-radar | May 19 14:59 |
| tacone | people allowed mono into repositories, what do they want more ? | May 19 14:59 |
| tacone | oh, schestowitz , it pings a lot of mono blogs | May 19 14:59 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: have fun with your uncrashable system... oh, wait | May 19 14:59 |
| tacone | and mono blogs as well. | May 19 15:00 |
| tacone | that was the declared intent of huayra, btw. to create a mono flame | May 19 15:00 |
| schestowitz | brb | May 19 15:00 |
| tacone | "This post is a critic and a social experiment as I stated above." | May 19 15:01 |
| mtnd3w | who wrote this article: http://www.stefanoforenza.com/the-mono-crusade/ | May 19 15:01 |
| mtnd3w | it's freakin hilarious ! | May 19 15:01 |
| mtnd3w | lmao | May 19 15:01 |
| tacone | me. | May 19 15:01 |
| mtnd3w | bravo! | May 19 15:01 |
| tacone | feel free to add your own rofl-copter here :) | May 19 15:01 |
| mtnd3w | i'm subscribed man | May 19 15:01 |
| tacone | lol, nice. | May 19 15:01 |
| tacone | my phone is dying. | May 19 15:02 |
| tacone | see you in some time | May 19 15:02 |
| tacone | bye | May 19 15:02 |
| mtnd3w | later | May 19 15:04 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is unfortunately popular | May 19 15:04 |
| DaemonFC | I say unfortunately because they often do the wrong thing and people back them up | May 19 15:05 |
| DaemonFC | because they're Ubuntu | May 19 15:05 |
| DaemonFC | even without the serious issues brought up by Greg Kroah-Hartman | May 19 15:06 |
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| DaemonFC | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3385088017824733336 | May 19 15:08 |
| mtnd3w | the thing about Ubuntu is the number of new users who don't care for free software | May 19 15:08 |
| mtnd3w | they come to Ubuntu with Microsoft Windows mindsets | May 19 15:09 |
| they learn, everyone does | May 19 15:09 | |
| mtnd3w | i think it's important for the new users to at least understand what free software is all about even if they don't agree with it | May 19 15:10 |
| yes it is, freedom is why free software is so good, both morally and technically. | May 19 15:11 | |
| they can disagree with it but they will be wrong. | May 19 15:12 | |
| mtnd3w | yup | May 19 15:12 |
| sooner or later, everyone gets it | May 19 15:12 | |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is a stack of non free crap | May 19 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | that has your name on it | May 19 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | and just needs you to sign off | May 19 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 15:13 |
| mtnd3w | but there are equally ignorant users out there | May 19 15:13 |
| MinceR | 162539 < DaemonFC> Ubuntu is a stack of non free crap | May 19 15:13 |
| let them eat Vista 7 | May 19 15:13 | |
| MinceR | said the guy who keeps showing off his vista desktop | May 19 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | Vista is morally, ethically, the same | May 19 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | as Ubuntu | May 19 15:13 |
| mtnd3w | like ubuntuforums they'll label you "zealot" | May 19 15:13 |
| those are astroturfers, for the most part, there to stink the place up | May 19 15:14 | |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu encourages you to use non free software, they ship with non free software | May 19 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | they make it easy to put in anything you like | May 19 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | even if they stole it | May 19 15:14 |
| MinceR | right, entirely the same | May 19 15:14 |
| MinceR | no difference at all | May 19 15:14 |
| MinceR | no sir! | May 19 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | even if they're helping you break the law | May 19 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | so it's no different than a copy of Vista off Pirate Bay | May 19 15:14 |
| I think you told us this stuff the other day, FC | May 19 15:15 | |
| DaemonFC | on a legal and ethical level, Ubuntu is no different than Pirate Bay Vista | May 19 15:15 |
| DaemonFC | now if you're OK with that, good for you | May 19 15:15 |
| DaemonFC | I don't really happen to give a crap if my software is "unlicensed" | May 19 15:15 |
| DaemonFC | but it is what it is | May 19 15:15 |
| you have to be able to run to believe that. | May 19 15:15 | |
| run vista | May 19 15:16 | |
| MinceR | no, he just has to be incredibly stupid to believe that. | May 19 15:16 |
| no sane person really equates Windows with Ubuntu | May 19 15:16 | |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu makes it easy to take illegal unlicensed codecs because if they made you pay for a license | May 19 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | nobody would use Ubuntu | May 19 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | they even package them for you | May 19 15:17 |
| mtnd3w | that's why shuttleworth bought he codecs for ubuntumix | May 19 15:17 |
| I think you have confused unlicensed and illegal with something wrong. the codecs are free software, the law is wrong to ban them | May 19 15:17 | |
| mtnd3w | the* | May 19 15:17 |
| DaemonFC | it's like me saying "You don't have to break into that store at night and steal a television, I already have one I stole from that store last night, here!" | May 19 15:17 |
| the non free codecs are suck next to the free ones | May 19 15:17 | |
| why do you support things that are wrong, FC? | May 19 15:18 | |
| DaemonFC | it's not the implementation that's stolen, it's the intellectual property, which is the same | May 19 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | as going to the pirate bay | May 19 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | and making a copy of Windows | May 19 15:18 |
| MinceR | you can't play content that's out there everywhere based on non-free codecs with free codecs. | May 19 15:18 |
| mtnd3w | have you guys noticed in blogs and scoial media networks, the BSD guys always team up with the proprietary guys? | May 19 15:18 |
| so, me understanding mp3 and writing software to do so is the same as me making a copy of Vista? | May 19 15:19 | |
| DaemonFC | basically | May 19 15:19 |
| MinceR | the bsd guys are so frustrated they've turned to m$ and crApple. | May 19 15:19 |
| lol | May 19 15:19 | |
| DaemonFC | if you went and called it Microsoft Windows Vista | May 19 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | which is what they're doing | May 19 15:19 |
| mtnd3w | i don't like their developer, he's an asshat | May 19 15:19 |
| *libervisco has quit ("Leaving") | May 19 15:19 | |
| DaemonFC | first off they call it MP3 which is a copyrighted term | May 19 15:20 |
| mtnd3w | my little sister has better dialogue than him | May 19 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | and second of all it plays mp3 files, which are patented | May 19 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | but that's not even the only codec | May 19 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | or the one that infringes the most | May 19 15:20 |
| mtnd3w | so they're really threatened by the success of free software? | May 19 15:20 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: read up on copyright, patent and trademark law | May 19 15:20 |
| MinceR | until then shut up about it | May 19 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Mono actually competes more with Java, not Python like tacone suggests. .NET is a Java wannabe, Mono is a .NET wannabe. | May 19 15:20 |
| so you think patents and trademarks are things that should keep me from sharing software that plays music? | May 19 15:20 | |
| MinceR | because you have no idea what you're talking about | May 19 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Why not get the real thing? Java? | May 19 15:20 |
| FC seems to be here to promote things that normal people hate | May 19 15:21 | |
| DaemonFC | well, it's the same kind of thing as people making copies of Windows and video games | May 19 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | and it breaks the same kind of laws | May 19 15:21 |
| MinceR | FC seems to be here to troll | May 19 15:21 |
| but will you tell me that those laws are morally sound. | May 19 15:21 | |
| DaemonFC | but Ubuntu is based in a place where the law doesn't happen to apply to them, they're in a tax haven | May 19 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | they chose this location deliberately | May 19 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | so they could thumb their nose at the authorities in the countries where they operate | May 19 15:22 |
| I agree. FC, you are some kind of troll. | May 19 15:22 | |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: codecs are a tiny part of ubuntu (even if i assume your point is correct, which it most likely isn't) | May 19 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | you're right | May 19 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | it also has Mono | May 19 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | and copyrighted artwork | May 19 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | and binary firmware | May 19 15:23 |
| MinceR | copyrighted and binary don't mean non-redistributable | May 19 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | it obviously doesn't care about free and non free | May 19 15:23 |
| he and ohm feed each other. | May 19 15:23 | |
| fill up the place with talk about Windows and how great it is | May 19 15:23 | |
| MinceR | ohm does that too? | May 19 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | I'm just saying that Ubuntu is pretty slimy in how they operate | May 19 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | and are not my favorite because of that | May 19 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | it's not *just* that, that's a part of it though | May 19 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | it's like the more I look, the less I like it | May 19 15:25 |
| *twitter has quit ("Leaving.") | May 19 15:25 | |
| DaemonFC | Fedora developers seem to be much more apporachable | May 19 15:26 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva developers are approachable | May 19 15:26 |
| DaemonFC | I mean Ubuntu is a walled garden in comparison yet they have all these things like "Brainstorm" | May 19 15:26 |
| DaemonFC | the Web 2.0 brick wall to talk to | May 19 15:26 |
| schestowitz | Napster now $US5 per month for unlimited music streaming < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25111/1054/ > | May 19 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Real MP3? | May 19 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | or WMA crap? | May 19 15:27 |
| schestowitz | Not sure | May 19 15:27 |
| schestowitz | I just use RIAA-free music | May 19 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | need a credit card to join? | May 19 15:27 |
| schestowitz | There are many bundles of music whose artists give away | May 19 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: This has to be a response to ZunePass | May 19 15:28 |
| schestowitz | I listen to singers you never heard of | May 19 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | it's obvious Microsoft has no idea how to run a music store | May 19 15:28 |
| schestowitz | So rather than be poor and unknown they at least gain familiarity | May 19 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | URGE was aborted before it began :P | May 19 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I downloaded several thousand WMA's from URGE cause they gave out a 2 week subscription for free | May 19 15:29 |
| schestowitz | Among those who want to be popstars, I'd guess only like .01% manage to make a living this way | May 19 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | and jsut stripped the drm tag off them | May 19 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | I'll take it for free, lol | May 19 15:29 |
| schestowitz | 90% stop trying | May 19 15:29 |
| schestowitz | And another 9.9% do poorly | May 19 15:29 |
| schestowitz | And then you're left with ones in millions (or 100,000s) like Eminem, Britney, Radiohead, etc. | May 19 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Those free music sites liek Jamendo have some really shitty shit | May 19 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | I mean stuff that will make your ears bleed | May 19 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Nope | May 19 15:30 |
| schestowitz | http://torrentfreak.com/sxsw-2009-on-bittorrent-6-gb-of-free-music-090312/ | May 19 15:30 |
| schestowitz | This one's got some good ones | May 19 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I was on the original Napster | May 19 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | when it was a file sharing thing | May 19 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | that was awesome | May 19 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | they had chat rooms and you could just see what everyone had and ask them if they wanted something from you | May 19 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | I had an OpenNap server | May 19 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | but I got a cease and desist letter | May 19 15:32 |
| schestowitz | I was never a Napster user, IIRC | May 19 15:32 |
| schestowitz | My sister had hundreds of CDs she bought | May 19 15:33 |
| schestowitz | The idea os sharing a CD | May 19 15:33 |
| schestowitz | These days they try to even restrict that | May 19 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Even lending a book to your mother can make you a criminak | May 19 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Digital book that is. Or reading out loud | May 19 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | I was hosting the server on a Windows 2000 box I think | May 19 15:34 |
| DaemonFC | on my DSL line :P | May 19 15:34 |
| DaemonFC | Napster was a Windows only thing | May 19 15:34 |
| DaemonFC | I have no idea if Wine could run it at all at that point in time | May 19 15:34 |
| schestowitz | You have been a troublemaker then | May 19 15:36 |
| schestowitz | Foxxcon ytoo | May 19 15:36 |
| schestowitz | Database of all children launched < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8052512.stm > Which number are YOU? | May 19 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | Did MS reallly 'leak' office 2010? | May 19 15:38 |
| schestowitz | Probably more fake leak for vapourware speak. | May 19 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | meh | May 19 15:39 |
| DaemonFC | if it doesn't have an expiration date | May 19 15:39 |
| DaemonFC | point me to it | May 19 15:39 |
| schestowitz | I didn't read closely | May 19 15:39 |
| schestowitz | But the Microsoft boosters call it a leak | May 19 15:39 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they are just taking the leak (piss) | May 19 15:39 |
| macabe | MS defecating on the net, ass usual. | May 19 15:41 |
| schestowitz | Zeroshell Linux: Captive Portal, Internet Gateway and Router (part3) < Zeroshell Linux: Captive Portal, Internet Gateway and Router (part3) > | May 19 15:42 |
| schestowitz | macabe: you mean their anti-Linux articles? | May 19 15:42 |
| schestowitz | I notice these | May 19 15:42 |
| schestowitz | Typical shills like Preston Gralla | May 19 15:42 |
| schestowitz | It's good | May 19 15:42 |
| schestowitz | It's means MS is afraid | May 19 15:42 |
| schestowitz | Some companies take notice of these attacks. | May 19 15:42 |
| macabe | I gather that. It looks as though it's becoming really intense. | May 19 15:43 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately Novell and Red Hat accounf or about 80% or more of ALSA work | May 19 15:44 |
| DaemonFC | I'm serious | May 19 15:44 |
| DaemonFC | *account | May 19 15:45 |
| DaemonFC | one Novell employee keeps coming up and fixing all the really shitty horrible bugs I got slapped with | May 19 15:45 |
| DaemonFC | so a lot of stuff on my sound card is working a lot better in 2.6.30 | May 19 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is generally useless in the grand scheme of Linux development work | May 19 15:47 |
| schestowitz | brb phone | May 19 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | if you want to contribute time, money, or effort, give it to Debian, give it to Gentoo | May 19 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | don't give it to Ubuntu | May 19 15:48 |
| mtnd3w | hey, what do you guys think of Miguel de Icaza? | May 19 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | Well, I'm of mixed feelings | May 19 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME is excellent | May 19 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | Mono, not so much | May 19 15:49 |
| mtnd3w | he seems like a tool for MS, but i think it's just my hunch | May 19 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | I think he says and does what gets his next paycheck coming | May 19 15:49 |
| mtnd3w | whats he upto with gnom 3? | May 19 15:49 |
| mtnd3w | gnome( | May 19 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | *shrugs* | May 19 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | no worse than most people | May 19 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | meh, he doesn't have the pull with GNOME that he used to | May 19 15:50 |
| mtnd3w | i saw screenshots of gnome 3, and novell seem to get them first | May 19 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | so it would be unfair to the rest of them to say he's running the place | May 19 15:50 |
| mtnd3w | that's a relief then | May 19 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME's website is hosted by Red Hat | May 19 15:50 |
| mtnd3w | oh ok | May 19 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | and there's hundreds of people working on it | May 19 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think he has the pull to just override the process and shove anything he wants in | May 19 15:51 |
| mtnd3w | i remember reading earlier last year they wanted to incorporate a lot of mono into gnome 3 | May 19 15:52 |
| mtnd3w | that's good. | May 19 15:52 |
| macabe | How is mono good for GNOME? | May 19 15:52 |
| mtnd3w | do you think there are a lot of people who are secretly MS supporters or even employed. | May 19 15:53 |
| mtnd3w | i was responding to daemon | May 19 15:53 |
| mtnd3w | mono is apt-get purge for me | May 19 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | Mono has nothing to do with GNOME really | May 19 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | it's jsut a component, nothing unique or important relies on it | May 19 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | and you can use Mono apps in KDE or XFCE or anything really | May 19 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | just for some reason, distros tend to ship it in their GNOME desktop, but not the others | May 19 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 15:54 |
| mtnd3w | i mean someone called me paranoid, but if i was MS and was threatened by a movement such as free software, i would definite use my resources | May 19 15:54 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: right now that's how it is | May 19 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think they're competent enough to subvert Linux | May 19 15:54 |
| Balrog_ | that may change :/ | May 19 15:54 |
| Balrog_ | but they may subvert GNOME | May 19 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | they'll probably ruin Novell and a couple other stupid small companies that want the publicity of a Microsoft deal | May 19 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | like Linspire | May 19 15:55 |
| mtnd3w | but they can influence community opinion | May 19 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | but that's where it will stop | May 19 15:55 |
| mtnd3w | i mean the whole social networking, is something i'm pretty sure companies use to propagate their ideas | May 19 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | well, they influence their own users too when their product activator fucks up | May 19 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | or Internet Explorer sucks | May 19 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | and so on | May 19 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | which is why I said free software should work well on Windows because the idea is that people become less reliant on Microsoft formats | May 19 15:56 |
| mtnd3w | right | May 19 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | if free software works poorly on Windows, it essentially gets people to believe that Linux is probably bad too | May 19 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | so the last thing these project should do is a bad port that reinforces that | May 19 15:57 |
| mtnd3w | i actually came to know linux better through Firefox | May 19 15:57 |
| mtnd3w | and get exposed to open source | May 19 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Firefox underwent some major changes to work better with Vista | May 19 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 15:58 |
| mtnd3w | i was a windows user | May 19 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | when Vista first came out, Firefox had all kinds of problems on it | May 19 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | I think where MS went wrong with security was trying to bolt on a security model after the fact | May 19 15:59 |
| mtnd3w | i never used vista | May 19 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | it's like a car rolling downhill | May 19 15:59 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: mono is not just a component | May 19 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | the longer you let it go, the harder it becomes to stop | May 19 15:59 |
| schestowitz | GTK is more tolerant than Qt to Mono | May 19 15:59 |
| schestowitz | More suitable for its use anyway | May 19 15:59 |
| schestowitz | Same goes for GNOME | May 19 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | well, the thing is that NT has some interesting security concepts, but they turned them all off to get legacy software to work better | May 19 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | and this encouraged bad software design for XP | May 19 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | so when they switched all this stuff on in Vista, the shit hit the fan | May 19 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | UAC is jsut a fancier RunAs frontend | May 19 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 16:01 |
| mtnd3w | i would use KDE strictly, but firefox is not ported to Qt | May 19 16:01 |
| schestowitz | "Richard Stallman (GNU_RMS) is now following your updates on Twitter." | May 19 16:01 |
| schestowitz | probably a faker | May 19 16:01 |
| mtnd3w | that's interesting, i didn't know that about NT | May 19 16:01 |
| schestowitz | Just got it | May 19 16:01 |
| schestowitz | Let's look | May 19 16:01 |
| mtnd3w | yeah | May 19 16:01 |
| mtnd3w | the real RMS | May 19 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Windows 2000 is much much easier to run as a standard user | May 19 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | than XP is/was | May 19 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Troll: http://twitter.com/GNU_RMS?utm_medium=email&utm_source=follow&utm_campaign=twitter20080331162631 | May 19 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Imposter too | May 19 16:02 |
| schestowitz | I'll report this to RMS | May 19 16:02 |
| mtnd3w | the real RMS is on identi.ca | May 19 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 19 16:02 |
| schestowitz | He has fakers in Digg also | May 19 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Kanye West has a faker in twitter | May 19 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | wouldn't surprise me | May 19 16:02 |
| schestowitz | with over 1 million subscribers | May 19 16:02 |
| mtnd3w | you guys use identi.ca ? | May 19 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | nope | May 19 16:03 |
| mtnd3w | how come? | May 19 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | never heard of it? | May 19 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 16:03 |
| mtnd3w | it's the libre version of twitter | May 19 16:03 |
| mtnd3w | http://identi.ca | May 19 16:03 |
| schestowitz | Someone fakes RMS in Twitter | May 19 16:03 |
| mtnd3w | join dudes! | May 19 16:03 |
| mtnd3w | here's RMS's page http://identi.ca/rms | May 19 16:04 |
| schestowitz | This person is pinging many people (me included) pretending to be Richard Stallman. | May 19 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I got told to bring up the Mono issue in an Ubuntu meeting if I thought it would do any good | May 19 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | the tone was more like | May 19 16:04 |
| schestowitz | RMS was on the Alex Jones show maybe yesterday | May 19 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | "Don't bother, it's been done before" | May 19 16:04 |
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| schestowitz | mtnd3w: it's a copy of his blog | May 19 16:04 |
| schestowitz | rms.org | May 19 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Oops. | May 19 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Stallman.org | May 19 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | Stallman is kind of an asshole | May 19 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | I have to say | May 19 16:05 |
| mtnd3w | why? | May 19 16:05 |
| schestowitz | <mtnd3w> yes, I'm on identi.ca: http://identi.ca/schestowitz/ | May 19 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | number of reasons | May 19 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | One is he was calling for a boycott of the company my dad works for | May 19 16:06 |
| schestowitz | RMS knows too much, so he's daemonised | May 19 16:06 |
| schestowitz | They cherry-pick things to smear with | May 19 16:06 |
| schestowitz | Very typical | May 19 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | because they sell bulldozers | May 19 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | to Israel | May 19 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | oh yeah | May 19 16:06 |
| mtnd3w | bulldozers to israel | May 19 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | can't sell bulldozers | May 19 16:06 |
| mtnd3w | i can support that idea | May 19 16:06 |
| schestowitz | Manufactured debates, trapping of a person, smears, misattributons, etc. | May 19 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | typical bleeding heart liberal | May 19 16:06 |
| mtnd3w | boycotting is a very good passive activism | May 19 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | if they were selling bombs to the Palestinians he'd be encouraging it | May 19 16:06 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Caterpillar do other crimes | May 19 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | but not bulldozers | May 19 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | to Israel | May 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Like the blackmail of labour | May 19 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | They were the first | May 19 16:07 |
| mtnd3w | no you can't be that extreme | May 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | South Africa related IIRC | May 19 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | Stallman is just a douche | May 19 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | a complete douche | May 19 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | politically | May 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Caterpillar break society | May 19 16:07 |
| mtnd3w | thats because you have conflict of interest | May 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | They don't build it | May 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Like weapons | May 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | For repression or proactive aggression | May 19 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | oh who the fuck cares? | May 19 16:08 |
| mtnd3w | i support boycotting of any company that supports israel | May 19 16:08 |
| schestowitz | It take a lot to build houses. We don't need to burn fossil fuel just to break these habitats apart | May 19 16:08 |
| mtnd3w | it's apparently working | May 19 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | He acts like caterpillar bulldozers aren't used for anything but terrorizing innocent people | May 19 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | typical liberal | May 19 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | side with the bad guys | May 19 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | and call them the victim | May 19 16:08 |
| mtnd3w | they do have an option not to sell to israel | May 19 16:08 |
| mtnd3w | a lot of european companies boycott israel | May 19 16:09 |
| mtnd3w | who is the bad guys? | May 19 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | it's also agaisnt US law to boycott Israel | May 19 16:09 |
| mtnd3w | who defines bad and good? | May 19 16:09 |
| schestowitz | Boycott is a powerful political weapon | May 19 16:09 |
| mtnd3w | it's a stupid law | May 19 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | Caterpillar could be shut down for refusing to sell those | May 19 16:09 |
| schestowitz | No need tor slurs of violence | May 19 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | they don't make the law | May 19 16:09 |
| schestowitz | it's a pressure mechanism that's friendly | May 19 16:09 |
| mtnd3w | pushed by lobbists | May 19 16:09 |
| mtnd3w | if average americans knew about that law | May 19 16:10 |
| schestowitz | Boycott Novell does this to an extent. No insults, no incitement or any sort | May 19 16:10 |
| mtnd3w | they'd be more reluctant to support israel | May 19 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | As long as there is one Muslim | May 19 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | Ok, put it this way | May 19 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | if there was one Muslim and one person of any other group left | May 19 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | in the world | May 19 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | there'd be war | May 19 16:11 |
| mtnd3w | a lot of US companies openly contribute to israel knowing that the money goes directly to IDF | May 19 16:11 |
| mtnd3w | daemon you're talking nonsense | May 19 16:11 |
| tacone | 14043 pdf downloads (and mind that not everyone linked to the pdf on my website) | May 19 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | I don't have to defend a group that would murder me | May 19 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | just for existing | May 19 16:11 |
| mtnd3w | sensationalizing things | May 19 16:11 |
| schestowitz | tacone: no need for printouts, either | May 19 16:11 |
| mtnd3w | playing the victim card | May 19 16:12 |
| schestowitz | That Internet is great | May 19 16:12 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: learn history | May 19 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know why liberals defend the most undemocratic, bloodthirsty people in the world | May 19 16:12 |
| schestowitz | And don't watch fox (I know you don't, I pull your leg) | May 19 16:12 |
| mtnd3w | the whole of the muslim world is fucked up because of us | May 19 16:12 |
| mtnd3w | colonization, regime change | May 19 16:12 |
| schestowitz | "We report the 'news', you 'decide'" | May 19 16:12 |
| schestowitz | Then they run propaganda | May 19 16:12 |
| mtnd3w | you think their governments represent the people? | May 19 16:12 |
| schestowitz | You 'decide'.... | May 19 16:12 |
| mtnd3w | they're all puppets | May 19 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | They elected Hamas knowing what Hamas would do | May 19 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | I feel no more sympathy for them than the Germans who elected the Nazis | May 19 16:13 |
| mtnd3w | democratically elected too | May 19 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | they need whatever they get | May 19 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | May 19 16:13 |
| mtnd3w | saudi royal family weren't democratically elected | May 19 16:13 |
| mtnd3w | musharaf wasn't | May 19 16:13 |
| mtnd3w | these are dictators | May 19 16:13 |
| mtnd3w | and no one speaks about them | May 19 16:14 |
| mtnd3w | in their draconian states | May 19 16:14 |
| mtnd3w | and everyone wants to go after hamas | May 19 16:14 |
| mtnd3w | because people chose them? | May 19 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | it would be nice to send Richard Stallman to live in "Palestine" | May 19 16:14 |
| mtnd3w | so what was the point of having an election? | May 19 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | I'm sure they'd love him and accept him | May 19 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | and not slit his throat | May 19 16:14 |
| mtnd3w | they fear them | May 19 16:14 |
| mtnd3w | and the US knows this | May 19 16:14 |
| mtnd3w | so does Israel | May 19 16:14 |
| mtnd3w | if there was a truely representative of the muslims | May 19 16:15 |
| mtnd3w | the whole israel/palestine conflict would've ended | May 19 16:15 |
| mtnd3w | a long time ago. | May 19 16:15 |
| mtnd3w | the truth is there isn't | May 19 16:15 |
| mtnd3w | there are only puppet regimes | May 19 16:15 |
| mtnd3w | who care about staying in power | May 19 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | well the funny thing is that the Israelis are really not all that intolerant | May 19 16:15 |
| mtnd3w | they're not | May 19 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | it's the Christians and Muslims that are the damned problem | May 19 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 16:16 |
| mtnd3w | most israelis today are like nazis | May 19 16:16 |
| mtnd3w | i'm sorry to say | May 19 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah, well, I'd have more rights as an Israeli than I do living in the United States | May 19 16:17 |
| mtnd3w | it's like black people in the ghettos here, they practice the same racism their forefathers tried to fight off | May 19 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | here I've been pretty much reduced to second class citizen | May 19 16:17 |
| mtnd3w | where in israel? | May 19 16:17 |
| schestowitz | Micheal gets another new monitor: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=asus_vh236&num=1 | May 19 16:18 |
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| schestowitz | Are there any countries without xenophobia? | May 19 16:19 |
| schestowitz | I think it's a genetic thing | May 19 16:19 |
| mtnd3w | of course | May 19 16:20 |
| schestowitz | People studies primitive Amazonian tribes to see this | May 19 16:20 |
| mtnd3w | human beings are hardcoded to love and hate | May 19 16:20 |
| schestowitz | It's like game theory though | May 19 16:20 |
| schestowitz | You need to find an equilibriaum | May 19 16:20 |
| mtnd3w | just like we are hard coded to eat, have sex | May 19 16:20 |
| schestowitz | Animals fight too, without exceptions | May 19 16:20 |
| mtnd3w | but we channel those instincts | May 19 16:20 |
| mtnd3w | and use our intellect to decide | May 19 16:20 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 19 16:20 |
| mtnd3w | otherwise we're no different than lower life forms | May 19 16:20 |
| schestowitz | But inside every person there are animal instincts still | May 19 16:21 |
| mtnd3w | of course | May 19 16:21 |
| mtnd3w | but what makes us different from animals? | May 19 16:21 |
| schestowitz | So say the psychiatric theoriticians. | May 19 16:21 |
| schestowitz | tacone: introspection? | May 19 16:21 |
| mtnd3w | it's our ability to use intelligence | May 19 16:21 |
| tacone | comments begin to come | May 19 16:21 |
| schestowitz | Oops | May 19 16:21 |
| mtnd3w | the fact that we progress | May 19 16:21 |
| schestowitz | That was to mtnd3w | May 19 16:21 |
| schestowitz | tacone: hehe. Like it's an aqueduct. | May 19 16:22 |
| schestowitz | There's water, there's water. Quick. Grab a bucket | May 19 16:22 |
| schestowitz | The promised land is here. | May 19 16:22 |
| schestowitz | Names for the next Feodra: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzI3Nw Fedora 12 Codenames: Perseidas, Orionid? | May 19 16:23 |
| schestowitz | mtnd3w: BTW, be careful to distinguish between racism and ethnic cleansing | May 19 16:24 |
| mtnd3w | ok | May 19 16:24 |
| schestowitz | Just as it would be wrong to compare -- say -- Microsoft to the Bush regime | May 19 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | lmao "You're using Ubuntu on your laptop? I'm sorry" -Greg KH | May 19 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | yeah... | May 19 16:25 |
| schestowitz | I think there is racism in any country, either directed inwards or outwards (beyong 'enemy' territory) | May 19 16:25 |
| schestowitz | I can't recall who coined the phrase clash of civilisation | May 19 16:25 |
| mtnd3w | i was just trying to make the point that israelis are acting the same way as nazis. how history repeating itself. | May 19 16:25 |
| schestowitz | But when there is internal peace they create imaginary threats abroad | May 19 16:25 |
| schestowitz | Like Guantanamo IIRC or some other places like Granada that Reagan and others pretended to be Nuclear Soviety threats | May 19 16:26 |
| schestowitz | For public support | May 19 16:26 |
| mtnd3w | you are right | May 19 16:26 |
| mtnd3w | it's for public opinion | May 19 16:26 |
| schestowitz | IIRC the Nazis too masqueraded invasion to other countries as 'security' issue, not just living space | May 19 16:26 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: URL? | May 19 16:27 |
| schestowitz | For greg's quote... | May 19 16:27 |
| schestowitz | He bashed Ubuntu before.. | May 19 16:27 |
| mtnd3w | he's a funny guy though | May 19 16:27 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | May 19 16:27 |
| mtnd3w | he does constructive criticism | May 19 16:27 |
| schestowitz | I read his blog | May 19 16:27 |
| mtnd3w | i just finished watching the video | May 19 16:28 |
| mtnd3w | daemon you're from the US? | May 19 16:28 |
| mtnd3w | schestowitz, you are right about using fear | May 19 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 19 16:28 |
| MinceR | greg kh is on micro$oft payroll, isn't he? | May 19 16:29 |
| MinceR | (novell) | May 19 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: It's not bashing if it's true | May 19 16:29 |
| mtnd3w | it's a large tool to guide peoples | May 19 16:29 |
| MinceR | and he develops suse | May 19 16:29 |
| MinceR | so his ubuntu bashing is without credit | May 19 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Brazil is aggressively expanding their Telecentro program, community free software workshops and technology education http://news.northxsouth.com/2009/05/18/brazil-is-aggressively-expanding-their-telecentro-program-community-free-software-workshops-and-technology-education/ | May 19 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | if it's true that Ubuntu isn't contibuting (and they aren't) and that OpenSuse and Fedora are (and they are) | May 19 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | then he has a good point | May 19 16:29 |
| mtnd3w | i thought he worked for redhat? | May 19 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | Greg KH is one of the kernel guys | May 19 16:30 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yes, Novell is MS-influenced | May 19 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | but yeah he works for Novell | May 19 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Watch what Novell employees say | May 19 16:30 |
| schestowitz | They must be careful talking about MS | May 19 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | And they are | May 19 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Never criticising MS | May 19 16:30 |
| schestowitz | It's an ally of their employer | May 19 16:30 |
| MinceR | ubuntu is contributing | May 19 16:30 |
| schestowitz | See Zonker's blog | May 19 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | he doesn't "bash" any distro but Ubuntu | May 19 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | notice this? | May 19 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Apple bashing, Google bashing | May 19 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | Gentoo is great | May 19 16:30 |
| MinceR | and *suse is harming gnu/linux | May 19 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft? None. Zip. | May 19 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | Debian is great | May 19 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | Fedora is great | May 19 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu sucks | May 19 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | and I agree | May 19 16:31 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: m$ is most afraid of ubuntu, obviously | May 19 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | I doubt it | May 19 16:31 |
| MinceR | well, comfort yourself with your beloved vista, then | May 19 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu discredits themselves enough without any help | May 19 16:31 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: don't doubt it, it's true | May 19 16:31 |
| _Hicham_ | MS is afraid of Linux | May 19 16:32 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu takes low-hanging fruit | May 19 16:32 |
| schestowitz | Well, not quite | May 19 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | hey, I ask for things in Fedora and they implement them usually | May 19 16:32 |
| schestowitz | They just grab those who wouldn't come to Linux for freedon in the first place | May 19 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | I ask for stuff in Ubuntu | May 19 16:32 |
| schestowitz | They might learn later | May 19 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | they tell me to go fuck myself | May 19 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | I like Fedora | May 19 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 16:32 |
| MinceR | i imagine how you ask | May 19 16:32 |
| schestowitz | I didn't understand real freedom when I started Linux | May 19 16:32 |
| mtnd3w | Shuttleworth did say there is room for cooperation with Microsoft in the future | May 19 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | yes he did | May 19 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is dangerous | May 19 16:33 |
| mtnd3w | there is room for it to turn into another Novell/MS lovefest. | May 19 16:33 |
| schestowitz | Not really | May 19 16:33 |
| schestowitz | Nothing of the same nature | May 19 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | it's amusing that they're on Netbooks and Microsoft has to dump XP | May 19 16:33 |
| tacone | http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2242462/microsoft-linux-team-software | May 19 16:33 |
| schestowitz | GPLv3 too stops it | May 19 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | but they're not a credible threat in any other way | May 19 16:33 |
| schestowitz | tacone: lots of FUD about it | May 19 16:33 |
| schestowitz | The MS trolls | May 19 16:33 |
| schestowitz | Pretending MS makes peace of something | May 19 16:33 |
| mtnd3w | how's the adoption of GLP3 so far? | May 19 16:33 |
| schestowitz | Old news about liability | May 19 16:33 |
| schestowitz | mtnd3w: good | May 19 16:34 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is a friend of Shuttleworth | May 19 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | Linus Torvalds realizes he'd scare all the best people and companies away | May 19 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | if he used GPL 3 | May 19 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | GPL 3 is a religious document | May 19 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | not a license | May 19 16:34 |
| tacone | as long as linux license doesn't forbit the gpl3 explicitly it's fine | May 19 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | it attempts to manipulate hardware which is not what Linux's goal should be | May 19 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | they don't have the right | May 19 16:35 |
| schestowitz | Linux Foundation starts publishing fast: Plugging Away: DIY File Server Using Samba < http://www.linux.com/news/hardware/servers/9517-plugging-away-diy-file-server-using-samba > | May 19 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | tacone: They do | May 19 16:35 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: religious? | May 19 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | Linux is licensed GPL 2 only | May 19 16:35 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: religious document? | May 19 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | for more than half the code | May 19 16:35 |
| tacone | what ? | May 19 16:35 |
| schestowitz | Do you know what religion means? | May 19 16:35 |
| schestowitz | Let's look at definition | May 19 16:35 |
| tacone | does it explicitely strip the 'or later' clause ? | May 19 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | yes, the Stallmanites | May 19 16:35 |
| schestowitz | The atheism of the GNU and GPL aside | May 19 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | tacone: Yes | May 19 16:36 |
| schestowitz | cambridge.org is broken | May 19 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | I'd strip the or later part too if I was licensing patches | May 19 16:36 |
| schestowitz | religion Show phonetics | May 19 16:36 |
| schestowitz | noun | May 19 16:36 |
| schestowitz | 1 [C or U] the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship: | May 19 16:36 |
| schestowitz | What is the god of the GPL? | May 19 16:37 |
| tacone | i can't check it now | May 19 16:37 |
| schestowitz | What does GPL worship? | May 19 16:37 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: and i suppose the m$ patent FUD is all right with you, isn't it? | May 19 16:37 |
| tacone | seems weird to me | May 19 16:37 |
| MinceR | 174717 < DaemonFC> GPL 3 is a religious document | May 19 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | Richard Stallman's bent concept of freedom | May 19 16:37 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: ...and the protection racket | May 19 16:37 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: right | May 19 16:37 |
| schestowitz | So any entiuty is religious | May 19 16:38 |
| schestowitz | Damn I'm hungry | May 19 16:38 |
| schestowitz | I shall worship thy organces and bread | May 19 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | http://lwn.net/Articles/200422/ | May 19 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | Kernel developers' position on GPLv3 | May 19 16:38 |
| _Hicham_ | is GNU atheist? | May 19 16:38 |
| MinceR | note how DaemonFC smears everyone but micro$oft | May 19 16:38 |
| tacone | yes you're right. | May 19 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | "While we find the use of DRM by media companies in their attempts to reach into user owned devices to control content deeply disturbing, our belief in the essential freedoms of section 3 forbids us from ever accepting any licence which contains end use restrictions. The existence of DRM abuse is no excuse for curtailing freedoms. " | May 19 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | "Further, the FSF's attempts at drafting and re-drafting these provisions have shown them to be a nasty minefield which keeps ensnaring innocent and beneficial uses of encryption and DRM technologies so, on such demonstrated pragmatic ground, these clauses are likewise dangerous and difficult to get right and should have no place in a well drafted update to GPLv2. " | May 19 16:39 |
| DaemonFC | "Finally, we recognise that defining what constitutes DRM abuse is essentially political in nature and as such, while we may argue forcefully for our political opinions, we may not suborn or coerce others to go along with them. Therefore, attempting to write these type of restrictions into GPLv3 and then relicense all FSF code under it is tantamount to co-opting the work of all prior... | May 19 16:39 |
| DaemonFC | ...contributions into the service of the FSF's political ends, and thus represents a fundamental violation of the trust outlined in section 4. " | May 19 16:39 |
| mtnd3w | it's true linus and others rejected a lot of the drafts | May 19 16:40 |
| mtnd3w | of the first gpl3 | May 19 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | Patents Provisions | May 19 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | As drafted, this currently looks like it would potentially jeopardise the entire patent portfolio of a company simply by the act of placing a GPLv3 licensed programme on their website. Since the Linux software ecosystem relies on these type of contributions from companies who have lawyers who will take the broadest possible interpretation when assessing liability, we find this clause... | May 19 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | ...unacceptable because of the chilling effect it will have on the necessary corporate input to our innovation stream. | May 19 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | which is part of the reason I say Stallman is full of it | May 19 16:41 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: where are those "end use restrictions" in gpl3? | May 19 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | the Tivo clause | May 19 16:42 |
| mtnd3w | my understanding from tha read is GPL3 will just patch the loop holes in GPL2? | May 19 16:42 |
| MinceR | mtnd3w: pretty much | May 19 16:42 |
| mtnd3w | what is wrong with that? | May 19 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 19 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | GPL 3 is an attempt to hijack | May 19 16:42 |
| mtnd3w | hijack what? | May 19 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | the FSF will take all the code granted to them years ago | May 19 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | and hijack it | May 19 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | and turn it into GPL 3 | May 19 16:43 |
| mtnd3w | and then? | May 19 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | which the only defense against that is saying "GPL 2 only" | May 19 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | If Torvalds ever changed his mind he could relicense it all, but that would be a bad idea | May 19 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | and he knows it | May 19 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | that's why he hasn't | May 19 16:44 |
| mtnd3w | GPL3 seems more like shield | May 19 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | no, GPL 3 is more restrictive | May 19 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | and would have a chilling effect | May 19 16:45 |
| mtnd3w | i still don't understand why it's restrictive? | May 19 16:45 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: how so? | May 19 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | bringing all serious work on the kernel to a halt | May 19 16:45 |
| Balrog_ | tivoization? | May 19 16:45 |
| Balrog_ | I wouldn't think so ... | May 19 16:45 |
| Balrog_ | the only possible 'downside' is the ban on tivoization | May 19 16:45 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: the requirement to provide Installation Information is not an end-use restriction | May 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/FX_transition_faq.html?s_cid=0509_webf_faq_334667&s_v1=1-9O8IVX_1-3LF908#Howto_assign_existing | May 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | "Can I ask you to consider [my favorite license]? | May 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | No. For consistency, the BSD license will be the standard for the File Exchange. | May 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | " | May 19 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | the GPL 2 is working fine | May 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Fools. They licence my code under BSD | May 19 16:46 |
| MinceR | however much the fans of tivoization would wish it to be | May 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | And give no options | May 19 16:46 |
| Balrog_ | :( | May 19 16:46 |
| Balrog_ | they want to use it, maybe | May 19 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not a huge fan of the FSF | May 19 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | neither is Linus Torvalds if you listen to anything he's said | May 19 16:47 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: we all know you're a huge fan of m$, no need to waste talk on it. | May 19 16:47 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: well, you also use Vista, so... | May 19 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | on the surface they seem good | May 19 16:47 |
| mtnd3w | but you know tarvalds also said | May 19 16:48 |
| mtnd3w | he said FSF, stallman, gnu | May 19 16:48 |
| mtnd3w | are also important | May 19 16:48 |
| mtnd3w | he did say he's not 100% with them always | May 19 16:48 |
| mtnd3w | but he never said he was against them | May 19 16:48 |
| schestowitz | Linux doesn't need marketing < http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/120486/index.html > | May 19 16:49 |
| mtnd3w | linus acknowledges RMS's work towards free software | May 19 16:49 |
| schestowitz | People flocked to Linux because of GNU and GPL | May 19 16:49 |
| schestowitz | Dvelopers, not just users | May 19 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | Torvalds: "Me, I just don't care about proprietary software. It's not "evil" or "immoral," it just doesn't matter. I think that Open Source can do better, and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is by working on Open Source, but it's not a crusade -- it's just a superior way of working together and generating code. " | May 19 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198002077 | May 19 16:49 |
| schestowitz | Same with some good CMSs like Drupal and WordPress/b2 | May 19 16:49 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: crusade is a religious term | May 19 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | without Linux they wouldn't have anything to flock to | May 19 16:50 |
| schestowitz | GNU is not a religion | May 19 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | how's a Mac sound? | May 19 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Stallman even mocks the idea | May 19 16:50 |
| mtnd3w | really? | May 19 16:50 |
| schestowitz | The whole parody of church od emacs | May 19 16:50 |
| mtnd3w | the kernel can be replaced | May 19 16:50 |
| schestowitz | And St. Ignicius | May 19 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | yeah they've done a great job | May 19 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | their kernel is 25 years old | May 19 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | and doesn't work | May 19 16:50 |
| mtnd3w | gnu libraries are going to be harder to replace | May 19 16:51 |
| mtnd3w | debian already has works for BSD kernel | May 19 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | lets see, they had libraries and a compiler, and their tools in 5 years | May 19 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | and the kernel is 25 years old | May 19 16:51 |
| mtnd3w | so we can't even call that linux anymore, can we? | May 19 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | and doesn't work | May 19 16:51 |
| Balrog_ | mtnd3w: glibc is being replaced by eglibc in some distros ... not a big change but may be important | May 19 16:51 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: you mean Hurd? | May 19 16:51 |
| schestowitz | What will Oracle do with OpenSolaris? | May 19 16:51 |
| Balrog_ | well, no one was working on it for half of that 25 years | May 19 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | maybe it's because it would be pointless to rewrite them that Linux uses them? | May 19 16:51 |
| Balrog_ | or very few people | May 19 16:52 |
| MinceR | that's St. IGNUcius though :> | May 19 16:52 |
| schestowitz | Linus said he'd consider gplv3 if OpenSolaris went there | May 19 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | not because they're harder to write | May 19 16:52 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: typo | May 19 16:52 |
| MinceR | ic | May 19 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | and OpenSolaris won't go there | May 19 16:52 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: we don't know what Oracle will do | May 19 16:52 |
| mtnd3w | balrog_ i'm aware, the glibc maintainer was a hard person to deal with | May 19 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | GPL 3 is not the kind of license that a buttoned down business would want to use | May 19 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | in fact it would scare the hell out of them | May 19 16:52 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: reasons? | May 19 16:53 |
| Balrog_ | I haven't heard any ....... | May 19 16:53 |
| Balrog_ | (from you) | May 19 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | mainly because of the reasons mentioned in that bigass article | May 19 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | that I keep repeating | May 19 16:53 |
| mtnd3w | link me to the article | May 19 16:53 |
| mtnd3w | i never did understand that whole argument | May 19 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | http://lwn.net/Articles/200422/ | May 19 16:54 |
| mtnd3w | thanks | May 19 16:54 |
| MinceR | because obviously businesses can only rely on sw patents to generate profit! oh, wait... | May 19 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | no, because GPL 3 will expose them to violating other peopels patents | May 19 16:54 |
| Balrog_ | ever heard of *copyrights*? That should be enough protection | May 19 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | since the hippies that wrote it didn't respect the law | May 19 16:54 |
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| MinceR | oh, the sacred law. | May 19 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | yes, the law | May 19 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | you may not have heard of such a thing | May 19 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | the reason I would go to jail for strangling you | May 19 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 16:55 |
| MinceR | or i may not think that it's all that matters about life | May 19 16:55 |
| MinceR | (such blasphemy!) | May 19 16:55 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC is a serial killer! | May 19 16:55 |
| MinceR | no, he's just a tool. | May 19 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | no, you won't last as a company unless you obey the law | May 19 16:56 |
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| DaemonFC | you'll be put out of business | May 19 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | patents are just a fact of life | May 19 16:56 |
| mtnd3w | the copyright laws are what causes majority of the problems really | May 19 16:56 |
| _Hicham_ | successful companies do not obey the law | May 19 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | even if you think they are crazy | May 19 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | or stupid | May 19 16:56 |
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| mtnd3w | patents are meant to help inventions not prevent them | May 19 16:56 |
| mtnd3w | which is what is going on today | May 19 16:57 |
| mtnd3w | companies take too much of a capitalistic perspective on patents and inventions | May 19 16:57 |
| zoobab01 | help inventors? | May 19 16:57 |
| mtnd3w | yes | May 19 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, as opposed to the state owning everything | May 19 16:57 |
| mtnd3w | you mean public domain? | May 19 16:57 |
| _Hicham_ | patents were never meant to help inventions | May 19 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | and telling you how many potatoes and rolls of toilet paper you can have | May 19 16:57 |
| mtnd3w | it's better than having it all collect dust | May 19 16:58 |
| mtnd3w | without any use, just because patent holding companies (who aren't even the original inventors ) can't make a buck off it | May 19 16:58 |
| mtnd3w | it goes for publishing also | May 19 16:58 |
| mtnd3w | same dilemma | May 19 16:58 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately some people think that the law means you have a choice to just ignore it | May 19 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | or rather, that they do | May 19 16:59 |
| mtnd3w | law changes | May 19 16:59 |
| mtnd3w | according to society | May 19 16:59 |
| mtnd3w | blacks couldn't vote a hundred years ago | May 19 16:59 |
| mtnd3w | today we have a black president in the US | May 19 16:59 |
| tacone | 'tanned' | May 19 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | and people pick on gay people instead | May 19 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | gee | May 19 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | the more things change... | May 19 17:00 |
| mtnd3w | mulatto* | May 19 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | people will always find an excuse to be shitheads | May 19 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | take away one and they find another | May 19 17:00 |
| tacone | uh, Mills got condamned in italy | May 19 17:00 |
| tacone | berlusconi has immunity, but he may run in troubles neverthless | May 19 17:01 |
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| trmanco | wow | May 19 17:11 |
| trmanco | nice post tacone | May 19 17:11 |
| schestowitz | <DaemonFC> patents are just a fact of life | May 19 17:12 |
| schestowitz | WOT? | May 19 17:12 |
| schestowitz | On thew 8th day, God created patents | May 19 17:13 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: US constitution doesn't require patents | May 19 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Some day sw patents are unconstitutional too | May 19 17:14 |
| Balrog_ | <http://supreme.justia.com/constitution/article-1/40-copyrights-and-patents.html> may be interesting, though I don't know how it's biased | May 19 17:14 |
| Balrog_ | sw patents and business method patents are to be treated like patents on math formulas | May 19 17:15 |
| Balrog_ | i.e. unpatentable material | May 19 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | New: http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/05/law_school_created_monopolies.html law school created monopolies | May 19 17:16 |
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| schestowitz | Asia is still ahead of the rest of the world in some areas of technology: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137389/lg-claims-world-thinnest-lcd-telly | May 19 17:18 |
| schestowitz | http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/05/the_kindle_experience_this_mus.html "Three emails, 4 days later, Amazon has still not responded to the problem. I wonder how they begin to discover/fix such a problem." | May 19 17:18 |
| mtnd3w | i heard the kindle has major DRM issues | May 19 17:21 |
| DaemonFC | I never said I'm a fan of patents | May 19 17:21 |
| DaemonFC | I don't really like to pay taxes either | May 19 17:21 |
| DaemonFC | Why do I do that? | May 19 17:21 |
| mtnd3w | because we're born into it | May 19 17:21 |
| DaemonFC | basically yeah | May 19 17:21 |
| DaemonFC | cause if I don't I get pwned by the IRS | May 19 17:22 |
| mtnd3w | doesn't mean it's always right, tax laws change to | May 19 17:22 |
| mtnd3w | lol | May 19 17:22 |
| mtnd3w | yeah | May 19 17:22 |
| DaemonFC | if a business doesn't respect patents | May 19 17:22 |
| DaemonFC | they get pwned by the court system | May 19 17:22 |
| mtnd3w | the point is the laws of change with society/technology or otherwise you become obsolete | May 19 17:22 |
| _Hicham_ | gnash uses a lot of CPU even with OpenGL backend | May 19 17:22 |
| DaemonFC | As long as most members of Congress are 90 years old, don't understand technology, and the oens that aren't bribed are being fed bullshit | May 19 17:23 |
| mtnd3w | it's ridiculous though | May 19 17:23 |
| DaemonFC | laws won't change | May 19 17:23 |
| mtnd3w | right now they even want to patent the human gene | May 19 17:23 |
| mtnd3w | i mean were does it stop? | May 19 17:24 |
| _boo_ | at natural numbers | May 19 17:24 |
| mtnd3w | lol | May 19 17:24 |
| _boo_ | and alphabet | May 19 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Nope | May 19 17:24 |
| schestowitz | trademark | May 19 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Like "android' | May 19 17:24 |
| schestowitz | It's not an English word | May 19 17:24 |
| _boo_ | and even alphabet doesn't stop them | May 19 17:25 |
| schestowitz | It's an ownership of a company | May 19 17:25 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'm gonna see if I can get a free Windows 7 disc | May 19 17:25 |
| _boo_ | only at breathing patent | May 19 17:25 |
| DaemonFC | Thats how I got Vista | May 19 17:25 |
| _boo_ | andr is greek root | May 19 17:25 |
| _boo_ | andros means man | May 19 17:25 |
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| DaemonFC | you send in an Express Upgrade request using a serial number off a Best Buy floor model | May 19 17:26 |
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| _boo_ | in english there's almost none english words | May 19 17:26 |
| DaemonFC | and then they get so bogged down that they quit checking the proof of purchase | May 19 17:26 |
| DaemonFC | and give everyone a disc | May 19 17:26 |
| _boo_ | they all come from somewhere else | May 19 17:26 |
| DaemonFC | Again, I think Windows Me is the only version I bought since Windows 95 | May 19 17:27 |
| DaemonFC | and that was $20 | May 19 17:27 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 17:27 |
| _boo_ | english was quite different in 8th century and it's kinda first mention of it | May 19 17:27 |
| DaemonFC | I still feel like I got gypped | May 19 17:27 |
| mtnd3w | the worst version of windows | May 19 17:27 |
| mtnd3w | you did | May 19 17:27 |
| _boo_ | haha, he bought windows | May 19 17:28 |
| DaemonFC | 98Lite worked on Windows Me | May 19 17:28 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 17:28 |
| mtnd3w | Daemon you a gamer? | May 19 17:28 |
| _boo_ | everybody point at him | May 19 17:28 |
| DaemonFC | whatever I can steal | May 19 17:28 |
| DaemonFC | but yeah | May 19 17:28 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | May 19 17:28 |
| mtnd3w | lol | May 19 17:28 |
| mtnd3w | thats why you wanna get windows 7 | May 19 17:29 |
| DaemonFC | if I can get it for free | May 19 17:29 |
| DaemonFC | then yeah I'll take a copy | May 19 17:29 |
| _boo_ | 7 has quite another meaning in windows naming scheme | May 19 17:29 |
| DaemonFC | if it's better than Vista I get a free upgrade | May 19 17:30 |
| _boo_ | it means: "WINDOWS???" | May 19 17:30 |
| DaemonFC | if it's not | May 19 17:30 |
| DaemonFC | I get a free coaster | May 19 17:30 |
| _boo_ | like wtf, are you still on windows, dude? | May 19 17:30 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 17:30 |
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| mtnd3w | seven characters? | May 19 17:30 |
| _boo_ | yeah | May 19 17:30 |
| _boo_ | it's abbreviation from ??????? | May 19 17:30 |
| mtnd3w | wow | May 19 17:30 |
| mtnd3w | ? | May 19 17:30 |
| mtnd3w | seven deadly sins? | May 19 17:31 |
| _boo_ | lol | May 19 17:31 |
| DaemonFC | Windows NT 6.0 | May 19 17:31 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 17:31 |
| DaemonFC | nah | May 19 17:31 |
| DaemonFC | they should have 7 internally numbered Windows NT 6.66 | May 19 17:31 |
| schestowitz | Fedora Commons and DSpace Foundation Join Together to Create DuraSpace™ Organization< http://duraspace.org/pressrelease.html > | May 19 17:31 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: interestingly enough | May 19 17:32 |
| DaemonFC | that Windows Media Center is all written in .Net | May 19 17:32 |
| DaemonFC | it's surprisingly......passable | May 19 17:33 |
| mtnd3w | no wonder why it's slow | May 19 17:33 |
| DaemonFC | I think that's what makes it interesting | May 19 17:33 |
| mtnd3w | do you develop .net? | May 19 17:33 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 19 17:34 |
| _Hicham_ | Adobe Flash Player source code is available to Mozilla | May 19 17:34 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, Silverlight must be getting ready to put Adobe in a world of hurt | May 19 17:34 |
| mtnd3w | hicham, really? | May 19 17:34 |
| DaemonFC | if they're open sourcing it | May 19 17:34 |
| schestowitz | It's troubling that some "open source" site are actually using that heading to flog Apple crap http://ostatic.com/blog/3-open-source-productivity-tools-for-safari | May 19 17:34 |
| DaemonFC | they must be desperate | May 19 17:34 |
| schestowitz | Not just Asay, OSatatic also | May 19 17:34 |
| schestowitz | It's like some Apple fans want to 'own' open source (as a movement) too | May 19 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: How do you feel about OSAlt? | May 19 17:35 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: why are you trolling?!?!? | May 19 17:35 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: it's OK | May 19 17:35 |
| mtnd3w | i think canvas will replace silverlight/flash | May 19 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not trolling | May 19 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | if Adobe is open sourcing Flash | May 19 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | they are fucked | May 19 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | and they know it | May 19 17:35 |
| schestowitz | \Nope | May 19 17:35 |
| _Hicham_ | Adobe is not Open Sourcing Flash | May 19 17:35 |
| mtnd3w | how come? | May 19 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | Adobe hates open source | May 19 17:36 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: if Adobe open sources all the non-codec components of Flash, MS can't use the open source card against them | May 19 17:36 |
| DaemonFC | they hate Linux | May 19 17:36 |
| schestowitz | Same for Opera | May 19 17:36 |
| _Hicham_ | it cooperates with Mozilla | May 19 17:36 |
| _Hicham_ | no | May 19 17:36 |
| mtnd3w | they have AIR open sourced | May 19 17:36 |
| Balrog_ | of course the codecs will remain closed source ... | May 19 17:36 |
| DaemonFC | and their last CEO swore they'd never even port software to Linux | May 19 17:36 |
| _Hicham_ | they don't hate Linux | May 19 17:36 |
| Balrog_ | mtnd3w: URL? | May 19 17:36 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: flash is ported for linux | May 19 17:36 |
| Balrog_ | flash 64-bit came first to linux | May 19 17:36 |
| schestowitz | They are in the Linux Foundation | May 19 17:36 |
| _Hicham_ | the actual Flash Binaries are great | May 19 17:36 |
| schestowitz | More facts, enough crap :-) | May 19 17:36 |
| mtnd3w | Balrog_ url for what? | May 19 17:36 |
| DaemonFC | Linux needed it worse | May 19 17:36 |
| _Hicham_ | I appreciate it | May 19 17:36 |
| DaemonFC | because of the 64-bit web browser problem | May 19 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Adobe uses Linux to its advantage sometimes | May 19 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Like Flash | May 19 17:37 |
| Balrog_ | 12:50 < Balrog_> of course the codecs will | May 19 17:37 |
| Balrog_ | sorry | May 19 17:37 |
| Balrog_ | :/ | May 19 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Silver Lie does not support Linux | May 19 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Adobe uses this to make Flash contracts | May 19 17:37 |
| Balrog_ | 12:50 < mtnd3w> they have AIR open sourced | May 19 17:37 |
| schestowitz | ? | May 19 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Not sure | May 19 17:37 |
| schestowitz | I think it' smixed | May 19 17:37 |
| DaemonFC | Adobe should simply use Vorbis and Theora in their specification | May 19 17:37 |
| schestowitz | PR-source | May 19 17:37 |
| DaemonFC | it would make it easier to open source the player | May 19 17:38 |
| _boo_ | they will claim then that they invented air | May 19 17:38 |
| DaemonFC | and itnegrate it aroudn the HTML 5 draft | May 19 17:38 |
| _Hicham_ | they won't open source it | May 19 17:38 |
| _Hicham_ | never | May 19 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla Preparing To Scrap Tabbed Browsing? http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/18/1227247&art_pos=4 | May 19 17:39 |
| _Hicham_ | there is still only one problem with gnash | May 19 17:39 |
| _boo_ | it's not working too good | May 19 17:39 |
| _Hicham_ | once it is resolved, flash player will be history | May 19 17:39 |
| _Hicham_ | the CPU usage | May 19 17:39 |
| _Hicham_ | I compiled gnash with different options, but no luck, always the same huge CPU usage | May 19 17:40 |
| mtnd3w | balrog_ don't remember the link it was in an adobe developer video | May 19 17:40 |
| mtnd3w | it's not in my bookmarks... | May 19 17:40 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: lmao@ the first two comments | May 19 17:40 |
| DaemonFC | "We need a ribbon!" | May 19 17:40 |
| _boo_ | _Hicham_, just spend months on optimizing it | May 19 17:40 |
| DaemonFC | "Can we call it the awesome ribbon?" | May 19 17:40 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, that damned Vista orb partially covers the icon to launch my mail | May 19 17:41 |
| DaemonFC | and so I sometimes end up clicking the start button | May 19 17:41 |
| _Hicham_ | there is a ribbon for linux | May 19 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | I think the death of tabbed browsing is greatly exaggerated | May 19 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | and Mozilla did not invent it | May 19 17:42 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: netscape had it | May 19 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | nope | May 19 17:43 |
| DaemonFC | Opera | May 19 17:43 |
| DaemonFC | 1994 | May 19 17:43 |
| mtnd3w | yeah opera had it first | May 19 17:43 |
| Balrog_ | wikipedia says not | May 19 17:43 |
| Balrog_ | "Browser tabs were introduced by NetCaptor in 1998, later by IBrowse in 1999, then by MultiZilla (an extension for the Mozilla Application Suite[1]) and Opera in 2000, Mozilla Application Suite in 2001, Konqueror and Safari in 2003, Internet Explorer 7[2] in 2006 and Google Chrome in 2008" | May 19 17:43 |
| DaemonFC | Opera had them first | May 19 17:43 |
| DaemonFC | it actually had a true MDI which could double as tabs | May 19 17:43 |
| DaemonFC | so Wikipedia is wrong | May 19 17:43 |
| DaemonFC | and btw, Opera still does have an MDI | May 19 17:44 |
| DaemonFC | they have it acting like tabs | May 19 17:44 |
| DaemonFC | by default | May 19 17:44 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 17:44 |
| Balrog_ | I never liked opera | May 19 17:45 |
| DaemonFC | actually in 1994 is was just the MDI, then by the time I started using it in 1997 it was either MDI or tabs | May 19 17:45 |
| Balrog_ | for some reason, it's cluttered for me.... | May 19 17:45 |
| DaemonFC | now it's either tabs or MDI | May 19 17:46 |
| DaemonFC | and on a technicality, NetCaptor is not a browser | May 19 17:46 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 17:46 |
| DaemonFC | it's just a front end | May 19 17:47 |
| DaemonFC | it embeds Trident (Internet Explorer layout engine) | May 19 17:47 |
| DaemonFC | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Netcaptor.gif | May 19 17:47 |
| DaemonFC | it even recycles XP's widgets | May 19 17:47 |
| DaemonFC | and icons | May 19 17:48 |
| DaemonFC | blecth | May 19 17:48 |
| DaemonFC | if all you want is a simple front end to Internet Explorer, I could probably whip you up something in Visual Basic in about 10 minutes | May 19 17:49 |
| DaemonFC | who knows, maybe I'll have a first listed in Wikipedia | May 19 17:50 |
| tessier | schestowitz: I'll reload the database soon. | May 19 17:50 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 17:50 |
| schestowitz | yay! | May 19 17:50 |
| schestowitz | tessier is aware | May 19 17:50 |
| schestowitz | Thanks! | May 19 17:50 |
| schestowitz | That's the last thing that'll bother you :-) | May 19 17:50 |
| tessier | Maybe in a few minutes, maybe in a couple of hours, depending on whether I have a meeting to attend right now... | May 19 17:50 |
| schestowitz | OK | May 19 17:50 |
| mtnd3w | guys check out these concept videos for mozilla browsers: http://labs.mozilla.com/projects/concept-series/ | May 19 17:51 |
| mtnd3w | they're really innovative | May 19 17:51 |
| DaemonFC | quit using that word | May 19 17:51 |
| DaemonFC | it's patented | May 19 17:51 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 17:51 |
| schestowitz | No hurry. basically, I have all the differences I made to merge with those two DBs in the home dir | May 19 17:51 |
| mtnd3w | by apple? | May 19 17:51 |
| mtnd3w | copypasta patents | May 19 17:51 |
| schestowitz | So they need to be slid in to replace what we have loaded ATM | May 19 17:51 |
| DaemonFC | they just HAVE to complicate things | May 19 17:52 |
| DaemonFC | Jesus | May 19 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Maybe safe to disable the mysql server while doing this to ensure no conflict, then put it back up | May 19 17:52 |
| DaemonFC | what the fuck am I going to do with that? | May 19 17:52 |
| DaemonFC | that looks so gaudy | May 19 17:52 |
| DaemonFC | do they actually pay people to do this? | May 19 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Palm -- Linux inside (but they don't talk about it): http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05/19/nyt_june_pre_launch/ (More June Palm Pré launch evidence emerges) | May 19 17:53 |
| DaemonFC | Aurura | May 19 17:53 |
| DaemonFC | right | May 19 17:53 |
| DaemonFC | vaporware | May 19 17:53 |
| DaemonFC | it's a shame they can't go back to when people were stupid | May 19 17:54 |
| DaemonFC | and just wanted something to work | May 19 17:55 |
| DaemonFC | how short sighted of us | May 19 17:55 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 17:55 |
| DaemonFC | AND | May 19 17:56 |
| DaemonFC | they have talked about Prism since at least 2004 | May 19 17:56 |
| DaemonFC | and Weave | May 19 17:56 |
| balzac | -_^ | May 19 17:56 |
| schestowitz | Hey, balzac | May 19 17:56 |
| balzac | hey schestowitz | May 19 17:56 |
| DaemonFC | and named one of their projects after a place in Star Wars | May 19 17:57 |
| balzac | before I ask "what's new", I'm going to scan BN's latest headlines... | May 19 17:57 |
| DaemonFC | yay | May 19 17:57 |
| schestowitz | balzac: see #boytcottnovell-social | May 19 17:57 |
| schestowitz | balzac: see #boycottnovell-social | May 19 17:57 |
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| mtnd3w | i'm using wave right now | May 19 17:59 |
| mtnd3w | actually | May 19 17:59 |
| mtnd3w | and i use prisim | May 19 18:00 |
| mtnd3w | prisim is pretty good | May 19 18:00 |
| mtnd3w | wave still needs some features | May 19 18:00 |
| mtnd3w | this channel is on freenode? | May 19 18:00 |
| mtnd3w | brb | May 19 18:00 |
| schestowitz | Weave? | May 19 18:00 |
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| schestowitz | Burying the truth? Boycott Novell hit by Denial of Service attack < http://blogs.computerworld.com/burying_the_truth_boycott_novell_hit_by_denial_of_service_attack > | May 19 18:05 |
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| mtnd3w | so it did get DoS'ed? | May 19 18:07 |
| schestowitz | "These enable users to easily select the site to be blasted, and then the programs reach out to their bot-network of compromised Windows PCs to launch their attacks." | May 19 18:07 |
| schestowitz | mtnd3w: yes, but we didn't mention this here | May 19 18:07 |
| mtnd3w | those jerks on ubuntuforums were like oh they're making it up... | May 19 18:07 |
| schestowitz | Not recently anyway | May 19 18:07 |
| mtnd3w | i got an RSS feed | May 19 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&content=CPU | May 19 18:08 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 18:08 |
| DaemonFC | well yeah, people running old unpatched copies of Windows with no antivirus | May 19 18:09 |
| DaemonFC | it's lord of the flies | May 19 18:09 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 18:09 |
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| toros | hi | May 19 18:16 |
| Balrog_ | hi toros | May 19 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Hi, tessier | May 19 18:18 |
| schestowitz | toros: | May 19 18:18 |
| schestowitz | Oops | May 19 18:18 |
| schestowitz | Interesting. Twitter Cofounder Takes Stance Against Advertising < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/19/twitter-cofounder-takes-stance-against-advertising > | May 19 18:19 |
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| DaemonFC | Twitter has too many problems to be taken seriously | May 19 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | including vulnerabilities to XSS attacks | May 19 18:26 |
| schestowitz | It's a very simplistic site | May 19 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Its main power is network effect. It was ignored for years by most people | May 19 18:26 |
| toros | I wonder if identica/laconica will be profitable | May 19 18:27 |
| toros | I hope so... | May 19 18:27 |
| schestowitz | If it grows, it can. | May 19 18:28 |
| schestowitz | BN never made me a dime | May 19 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Opera_web_browser#First_MSN.com_controversy | May 19 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Opera_web_browser#Second_MSN.com_controversy | May 19 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 19 18:29 |
| schestowitz | If one day it grew bigger, then maybe I could do more than just pay for hosting | May 19 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | What other site deliberately screwed Opera up | May 19 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | Sourceforge I think it was | May 19 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | passing CSS elements that only Opera understands | May 19 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | to make the font size much larger | May 19 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4.8 released < http://www.itrunsonlinux.com/news/69-red-hat-enterprise-linux-48-released > | May 19 18:31 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft has deliberately targeted Opera far more often than Mozilla | May 19 18:32 |
| DaemonFC | for some reason | May 19 18:32 |
| schestowitz | New from Microsoft: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/May-18.html | May 19 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Watch this: http://hausb.org/dungeon/?p=69 | May 19 18:32 |
| DaemonFC | Probably cause Mozilla are obedient monkeys and make sure Firefox works better on Windows | May 19 18:33 |
| schestowitz | What's with fluffy dolls like Geeko in opensuse? | May 19 18:33 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder how much that cost them | May 19 18:33 |
| DaemonFC | it's true, the performance of the Linux Firefox is so abysmal that the Windows version overtakes it even in Wine | May 19 18:34 |
| DaemonFC | but Linux gets off lucky compared to how horribly Firefox runs on a Mac | May 19 18:34 |
| schestowitz | The worse side of Wolfram|Alpha: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090518204959409 | May 19 18:34 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Have you ever used Firefox on a Mac? | May 19 18:35 |
| DaemonFC | pray you never have to | May 19 18:35 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: ??? | May 19 18:35 |
| DaemonFC | I can kind of see why it's not going over well on Mac | May 19 18:35 |
| Balrog_ | firefox for mac work *ok( | May 19 18:35 |
| Balrog_ | *ok* * | May 19 18:35 |
| Balrog_ | not too well, but a lot better than 2 | May 19 18:35 |
| Balrog_ | (firefox 2) | May 19 18:35 |
| schestowitz | I used Mac OS X just half a dozen times, quite briedly | May 19 18:35 |
| DaemonFC | yes, FF 2 on Mac was a joke | May 19 18:35 |
| schestowitz | *briedly | May 19 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Safari, not FF | May 19 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | my point is they're obviously optimizing it for Windows | May 19 18:36 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: you remember which versions? the early ones were quite horrible | May 19 18:36 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: possible | May 19 18:36 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: no, they're optimizing it for XUL | May 19 18:36 |
| Balrog_ | well, it is XUL | May 19 18:36 |
| Balrog_ | XULRunner is what runs firefox | May 19 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | if that was the case then the Windows build has no reason to work better | May 19 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | yet it does | May 19 18:36 |
| Balrog_ | The Linux version works at least as well as the Windows build for me | May 19 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | they even spent time and effort to integrate it with Vista's Parental Controls | May 19 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox on Vista will respect your Windows Parental Controls settings | May 19 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | there's a fair bit of code in Firefox that either is meant only for Windows, or only meant to work decently on Windows | May 19 18:38 |
| DaemonFC | Debian had to practically rewrite the add on manager | May 19 18:38 |
| Balrog_ | and there's the multitouch code which is mac-only | May 19 18:38 |
| DaemonFC | from what I gather | May 19 18:38 |
| Balrog_ | also the Cocoa display code | May 19 18:38 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: why did Debian have to do that? | May 19 18:38 |
| DaemonFC | well, in their words something like "It was total crap, obviously written with only Windows in mind" | May 19 18:38 |
| DaemonFC | not an exact quote | May 19 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | lemme google it | May 19 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | http://glandium.org/blog/?p=97 | May 19 18:40 |
| DaemonFC | it's buried in there | May 19 18:40 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: do you use a mac? | May 19 18:41 |
| DaemonFC | "The main difference by that time was the extensions manager, which, in Debian, needed a lot of changes to actually act as it should, especially with globally installed extensions. I’m not saying the Debian one was perfect, it also had its own problems, but that was a whole lot less than the blatant crap that was the official one, obviously written for Windows without any thoughts for unix,... | May 19 18:42 |
| DaemonFC | ...and especially linux distributions." | May 19 18:42 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 18:42 |
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| DaemonFC | I've dabbled with OS X a bit | May 19 18:43 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't say I'm proficient with it | May 19 18:43 |
| tacone | i'm in osx right now | May 19 18:43 |
| schestowitz | OS X can't do KDE (properly) | May 19 18:43 |
| DaemonFC | neither can Linux | May 19 18:43 |
| tacone | i hate its windows manager | May 19 18:43 |
| DaemonFC | see, more in common than you realize | May 19 18:43 |
| DaemonFC | yay | May 19 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | or the BSDs for that matter | May 19 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | I feel the inter no op love | May 19 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | thanks KDE! | May 19 18:44 |
| tacone | i'm lucky if the mono article will get 200 visits in total :( | May 19 18:44 |
| Balrog_ | OSX do KDE as in what? | May 19 18:44 |
| balzac | I think there is no real substance to the Mozilla / Debian squabble | May 19 18:45 |
| tacone | uhm, reddit ! | May 19 18:45 |
| balzac | I'm tired of hearing abou it | May 19 18:45 |
| Balrog_ | I'm using OS X as well ... though this is an ssh window into a linux box | May 19 18:45 |
| Balrog_ | in an ssh window * | May 19 18:45 |
| DaemonFC | Ooga Booga uses all of Debians mods | May 19 18:45 |
| schestowitz | tacone: I'm linking to it later | May 19 18:45 |
| DaemonFC | and their own | May 19 18:45 |
| DaemonFC | and they get to call it Firefox | May 19 18:45 |
| schestowitz | I found a corny video | May 19 18:45 |
| DaemonFC | preferential treatment :) | May 19 18:45 |
| balzac | FF is the spearhead plunging through Microsoft's armor | May 19 18:45 |
| schestowitz | Don't expect Susan to link to it | May 19 18:45 |
| schestowitz | She doesn't entertain Mono critique. | May 19 18:46 |
| schestowitz | But she does link to ushimitsudoki's article when he posts something | May 19 18:46 |
| DaemonFC | I'm actually surprised Winamp hasn't gone to hell | May 19 18:46 |
| schestowitz | *articles | May 19 18:46 |
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| DaemonFC | most things AOL takes over do | May 19 18:46 |
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| schestowitz | Weird | May 19 18:46 |
| schestowitz | My PC at the office 'crashed' off the net | May 19 18:47 |
| schestowitz | Maybe just a rogue Freenode node | May 19 18:47 |
| schestowitz | Very rare | May 19 18:47 |
| tacone | it's ok, i just hope people like her don't start hating me too much | May 19 18:47 |
| DaemonFC | AOL really doesn't have too much software I'd use willingly | May 19 18:48 |
| DaemonFC | actually Winamp is about it :P | May 19 18:48 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder why Mozilla is still using an old compiler | May 19 18:50 |
| DaemonFC | GCC 3.4? | May 19 18:50 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 18:50 |
| Balrog_ | the are?!? | May 19 18:50 |
| Balrog_ | they * | May 19 18:50 |
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| DaemonFC | mmhm | May 19 18:55 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm ought to know | May 19 18:57 |
| schestowitz | He says they use another compiler | May 19 18:57 |
| schestowitz | Run Windows and Linux: easy partitioning guide < http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/run-windows-and-linux-easy-partitioning-guide-598513 > | May 19 18:58 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: you have Driva, right? | May 19 18:58 |
| schestowitz | They issued many patches. | May 19 18:58 |
| schestowitz | None for me in weeks, then a slew (3 times) yesterday and one today | May 19 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Noteworthy Mandriva Cooker changes (4 May - 17 May 2009) < http://artipc10.vub.ac.be/wordpress/mandriva/noteworthy-mandriva-cooker-changes-4-may-17-may-2009.html > | May 19 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 19 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | not too many patches so far | May 19 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | maybe about a dozen? | May 19 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | they're kind of weird with patches | May 19 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | they do one, one, two, one, eighteen | May 19 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | or about like that | May 19 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | you're best off to just bother with it every week or so if you don't like restarting the machine | May 19 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | brb | May 19 19:00 |
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| DaemonFC | new nightly of Seamonkey :D | May 19 19:03 |
| DaemonFC | this might be interesting | May 19 19:06 |
| DaemonFC | I got some "Linux sucks" comments from an internet cafe | May 19 19:06 |
| DaemonFC | in Seattle | May 19 19:06 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: never got a dodgy patch from Mandriva | May 19 19:06 |
| schestowitz | So no complaints | May 19 19:07 |
| DaemonFC | 216.162.216.235 | May 19 19:07 |
| schestowitz | The FF bugs mostly have Windows targets, mainly and maybe exclusively | May 19 19:07 |
| schestowitz | Yes, Seattle has many MS trolls | May 19 19:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://drizzle.net/ | May 19 19:07 |
| schestowitz | Voluntary, shills or useful idiots | May 19 19:07 |
| schestowitz | We get at least one in IRC | May 19 19:07 |
| schestowitz | yuhoung | May 19 19:07 |
| DaemonFC | "Right, so it’s a great desktop experience, and works for someone doing email/web/im. Cool. | May 19 19:08 |
| DaemonFC | It’s completely useless for anyone in the professional space that needs an Autodesk or Adobe product, as Wine explodes horribly last I checked with Revit 2009/2010, Civil 3D, or the CS4 suite. | May 19 19:08 |
| DaemonFC | And if all you do is web/email/im, who the hell cares what you run? Go use Ubuntu/Mandriva/OSX/BeOS, doesn’t matter." | May 19 19:08 |
| DaemonFC | then a similar comment from 216.232.63.111 | May 19 19:09 |
| DaemonFC | which resolves to Alberta | May 19 19:09 |
| DaemonFC | "So I tried Mandriva 2009 spring. Wireless driver didn’t work right. Fail. I plugged a monitor into my laptop. Didn’t work right off. Fail. Booted in 60 seconds vs 45 for Windows 7. Fail. | May 19 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | It’s a good Linux distro. It’s not Windows 7 though. | May 19 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | I wish people would stop pitting Linux against Windows. It’s not about which is better. It’s about if Linux works for you or not. If it does, great. It not, not so great. It’s a bit like Star Trek and Star Wars geeks fighting about which is better. No one cares." | May 19 19:10 |
| MinceR | tacone: the overstrike from one of your blog posts spills out to the rest of the posts on the main page :> | May 19 19:11 |
| tacone | yeah ? | May 19 19:11 |
| tacone | lemme see | May 19 19:11 |
| MinceR | it starts in http://www.stefanoforenza.com/early-android-sdk-brings-voice-recognition/ | May 19 19:12 |
| tacone | i can't reproduce | May 19 19:12 |
| tacone | browser ? | May 19 19:12 |
| MinceR | opera | May 19 19:13 |
| tacone | uh | May 19 19:13 |
| tacone | well, btw i know what it may be | May 19 19:13 |
| tacone | but it's difficult to correct it now, i guess. | May 19 19:13 |
| MinceR | linux, 9.27 build 709 | May 19 19:13 |
| schestowitz | We should coin a name for non-geeks < http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2009/05/18/we-should-coin-a-name-for-non-geeks/ >. Hey, DaemonFC, how about "niggots" like in the parody? | May 19 19:13 |
| MinceR | it takes one "loading the next set of posts" currently | May 19 19:14 |
| MinceR | and it doesn't happen in firefox | May 19 19:15 |
| MinceR | so it might be an opera bug | May 19 19:15 |
| tacone | MinceR: ok | May 19 19:15 |
| tacone | i think i know what it is | May 19 19:15 |
| MinceR | the closing tag doesn't get written and different parsers handle it differently? | May 19 19:15 |
| tacone | I did the function to create the abstracts automatically myself | May 19 19:15 |
| tacone | so i'm writing the close tags myself | May 19 19:15 |
| tacone | but i incorrectly assumed every browser would close an inline tag after one block tag ends | May 19 19:16 |
| MinceR | ic | May 19 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 19 19:16 |
| MinceR | the horrors of non-XHTML HTML, i guess | May 19 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | the amazing athiest | May 19 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 19:16 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: i'd call them "mundanes" :> | May 19 19:17 |
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| *DaemonFC invents a new web language comprised of Netscape 4 DHTML, XMLHttpRequest, and Silverlight | May 19 19:18 | |
| *DaemonFC forces MinceR to learn it | May 19 19:19 | |
| tacone | i'm not a xhtml validation fundamentalist | May 19 19:19 |
| tacone | not these days at lease | May 19 19:19 |
| tacone | least. | May 19 19:19 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: die in a fire | May 19 19:19 |
| MinceR | well, the point is that SGML allows some start/end tags to be optional | May 19 19:20 |
| schestowitz | OpenOffice.org in Education: Adoption is Gaining Momentum < http://ooomarketing.blogspot.com/2009/05/openofficeorg-in-education-adoption-is.html > | May 19 19:20 |
| *DaemonFC gives MinceR a gift | May 19 19:22 | |
| DaemonFC | http://sillydog.org/narchive/full4.php | May 19 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 19:22 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: like i said, die in a fire | May 19 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | http://sillydog.org/netscape/communicator/tips/nn4tips.html | May 19 19:23 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: Silverlight is binary-type code | May 19 19:24 |
| schestowitz | Watch how the Firefox Icon evolves: http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2009/05/17/new-firefox-icon-concept-rendering-by-stephen-horlander/ | May 19 19:26 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: he says this a lot | May 19 19:27 |
| schestowitz | It means "I disagree" | May 19 19:27 |
| MinceR | hm, i like "sleepers" too | May 19 19:27 |
| MinceR | i'm familiar with Mage: The Ascension :> | May 19 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE54I59B20090519 | May 19 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | XP ahoy! | May 19 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | more netbooks being given out with AT&T subscriptions | May 19 19:27 |
| schestowitz | I tdoesn't say Windows | May 19 19:28 |
| schestowitz | AT&T are close to the proprietors, but IIRC they spoke about Linux last year | May 19 19:28 |
| MinceR | hm, are there any gnu/linux-friendly laptop brands left, besides system76? | May 19 19:28 |
| Balrog_ | ATT doesn't care, as long as it brings them a profit ... | May 19 19:29 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: lemote ... :P | May 19 19:29 |
| Balrog_ | http://www.lemote.com/english/yeeloong.html | May 19 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/desktop/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217500232&subSection=News | May 19 19:29 |
| schestowitz | It cannibalises Windows sales anyway | May 19 19:29 |
| schestowitz | The ones that make money | May 19 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | The HP Mini 1151NR has a 10-inch display and is powered by a 1.6-GHz N270 Atom processor from Intel (NSDQ: INTC). The product comes with 1 GB of memory, an 80-GB hard drive, and a keyboard that's 92% of standard size. The system weighs almost 2.5 pounds, is an inch thick, and comes with Microsoft (NSDQ: MSFT)'s Windows XP Home Edition. | May 19 19:30 |
| Balrog_ | heh | May 19 19:30 |
| Balrog_ | 2.5 lb is almost a laptop | May 19 19:30 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft doesn't mind giving Windows for free in poor countries, but here you have them making no money or even PAYING kickbacks in the WEST | May 19 19:30 |
| schestowitz | They recognise the problem, so 3-app edition of Vista7 was conceived | May 19 19:30 |
| Balrog_ | which people will HATE | May 19 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Windows Starter is NOT new | May 19 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | it's been around since XP | May 19 19:31 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: deceiving | May 19 19:31 |
| Balrog_ | though 3app limits were available in XP | May 19 19:31 |
| schestowitz | Verizons does Linux netbooks | May 19 19:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/dell_freshens_up_its_mini_10_netbook_with_ubuntu | May 19 19:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pcworld.com/article/164665/verizon_to_offer_hp_mini_netbook_and_mifi_service_may_17_reports.html | May 19 19:32 |
| Balrog_ | but the idea to provide it to US customers is new | May 19 19:32 |
| schestowitz | From last week or so | May 19 19:32 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu, Ubuntu | May 19 19:32 |
| tacone | http://lunduke.com/?p=526 FAIL ! | May 19 19:32 |
| schestowitz | More Linux and Vericon this eyar: | May 19 19:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2346697,00.asp | May 19 19:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.paidcontent.co.uk/entry/419-android-based-g1-is-t-mobiles-bestselling-device/ | May 19 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | Verizons uses XP Home | May 19 19:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=15168&news=Verizon+Google+Android http://i.gizmodo.com/5213358/the-verizon-hub-widget-phone-just-got-a-lot-more-exciting | May 19 19:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2339502,00.asp http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4867423455.html?kc=rss | May 19 19:33 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: read the links first | May 19 19:33 |
| schestowitz | tacone: yes, I have a post about that coming | May 19 19:33 |
| tacone | lol | May 19 19:33 |
| schestowitz | He's one of the fools who liaise with Miguel and his friend, LinuxHaters | May 19 19:33 |
| schestowitz | I can't post until tessier reloads the DB | May 19 19:34 |
| tacone | except he doesn't have any idea about who linux hater is | May 19 19:34 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: thx | May 19 19:34 |
| MinceR | so no major gnu/linux friendly laptop brands anymore | May 19 19:34 |
| tacone | i do appreciate linux hater to some extent. | May 19 19:34 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: lemote is free hardware as well | May 19 19:34 |
| tacone | weird he never told anything about moonlight being the handicapped sister of silverlight. | May 19 19:35 |
| Balrog_ | main downside is that it uses a custom MIPS chip | May 19 19:35 |
| MinceR | also, i doubt i could get one in hungary | May 19 19:35 |
| Balrog_ | you probably could, though shipping may be a bit | May 19 19:35 |
| MinceR | i could perhaps order it and have it shipped, and either use some sort of courier service or get very lucky with our post (which is renowned for stealing/"losing" items) | May 19 19:35 |
| MinceR | but warranty would be difficult to enforce | May 19 19:36 |
| Balrog_ | ahhh. your post has no insurance? | May 19 19:36 |
| MinceR | even more so than usual | May 19 19:36 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: probably only if the sender uses it, and it's probably unavailable if the item is sent from abroad | May 19 19:36 |
| Balrog_ | argh. :( | May 19 19:36 |
| MinceR | we've already made it to several "won't ship to these countries" lists because of this :/ | May 19 19:37 |
| Balrog_ | that really sucks | May 19 19:37 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I've deleted all the leftover files, leaving just the 4GB that's part of the site. This ought to compact backups :-) | May 19 19:37 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: the 4GB doesn't include videos, I suppose | May 19 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | I won't ship outside the US or Canada | May 19 19:38 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: http://config.fsf.org/trac/public/wiki/lemote-yeeloong.office.fsf.org has detailed info | May 19 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | I only do paypal | May 19 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | or money orders | May 19 19:39 |
| MinceR | they must be gleat fol accessing sites flom gleat distances ;) | May 19 19:39 |
| schestowitz | Just for this: | May 19 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | and I don't ship til it clears | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | "It might be opportune to review the apparent censorship of the major | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | open standards forums last summer. It was dressed up as a net dispute, | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | but it let up a few hours after the vote closed. Now enough time has | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | passed to be able to call that as it really was. | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Also, keep up with the police. As a network administrator I worked with | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | years ago said to them, "It's a crime right? Then deal with it. Crime | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | is *your* area, computers or not." BTW look at FBI and Scotland Yard | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | figures regarding the commerce in Windows botnets. dotnet=botnet | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Simply by using Windows on a machine connected to the net, one is | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | contributing as an accomplice to organized crime. | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | That goes whether or not one also considered MS itself to be organized | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | crime. Based on how the sales and lobbying history is, I'd say it is." | May 19 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | oh, foreigners rip you off | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | BTW, Dell is doing Ubuntu in Australia now. | May 19 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | cause there's no laws you can charge them with | May 19 19:40 |
| schestowitz | The police is helpless | May 19 19:41 |
| schestowitz | I've given up on it | May 19 19:41 |
| schestowitz | These days, with MS Windows botnets, most sucj crime is not punishable | May 19 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | I won't ship anywhere I can't file a lawsuit | May 19 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Any kid can just play this game and be left alone | May 19 19:41 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: whom to punish? | May 19 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Even 13-y-o kids | May 19 19:41 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: does it really matter with cheap things? | May 19 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: the attacker | May 19 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | if it's something cheap, then international shipping isn't really worth it | May 19 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | and if it's expensive, I don't want to be ripped off | May 19 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | so either way | May 19 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Amid Linux netbook jitters, Dell stands firm < http://www.techworld.com.au/node/303742 > | May 19 19:42 |
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| schestowitz | "The $369 version weighs 2.9 pounds and runs Ubuntu Linux 8.1 on an 8-GB solid-state disk (SSD) " http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133238 | May 19 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Here is the Dell reference page for the Linux machines: http://en.community.dell.com/blogs/direct2dell/archive/2009/05/18/latitude-2100-dell-netbook-for-schools.aspx | May 19 19:48 |
| tacone | offlining. bye | May 19 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Cya | May 19 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Battery needs chanrging | May 19 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu One Thoughts < http://www.chuckfrain.net/2009/05/18/ubuntu-one-thoughts > | May 19 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | http://blog.jjtcomputing.co.uk/2009/05/18/foresight-linux-221/ | May 19 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Gentoo to Ubuntu Migration Part 2: The College Years < http://matthew-garman.blogspot.com/2009/05/gentoo-to-ubuntu-migration-part-2.html > | May 19 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133248 | May 19 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft confirms serious IIS bug, downplays threat | May 19 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | 8 years after Code Red | May 19 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | and still not any safer | May 19 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | http://blogs.computerworld.com/four_things_apple_can_learn_from_microsoft_about_security | May 19 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | You can't be serious...... | May 19 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Wow. Watch the trolls attacking RMS: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/1137379/stallman-rounds-javascript | May 19 19:56 |
| schestowitz | "posted by : Homer, 19 May 2009" probably the exception to the vicious attacks | May 19 19:56 |
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| DaemonFC | "Andrew Storms, director of security operations at nCircle Network Security, said that he had seen patches for those security holes issued for Linux nearly half a year ago in December. Yet Apple waited until May to fix them." | May 19 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | well that's kind of.....scary | May 19 19:57 |
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| schestowitz | Lenovo’s Revisionist Netbook History < http://limulus.wordpress.com/2009/05/18/lenovos-revisionist-netbook-history/ > | May 19 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | "For a long time, there's been a myth that Macs are invulnerable to hacks, Trojans, and other dangers. That's certainly not the case. Recently, for example, a Trojan was found to infect Macs and created a botnet. In addition, several security researchers have said that Macs are less secure than Windows or Linux. " | May 19 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | well yeah, I could have told you that | May 19 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 19:59 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: not exactly | May 19 19:59 |
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| Balrog_ | TROJANS | May 19 19:59 |
| Balrog_ | not viruses | May 19 19:59 |
| Balrog_ | you had to INSTALL them | May 19 19:59 |
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| DaemonFC | well, Apple is certainly less secure | May 19 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | nobody has a Mac | May 19 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | that's why they're safer | May 19 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | it's sure not cause Apple lets security patches pile up for 8 months | May 19 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | before they fix them | May 19 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | I mean that's damned sloppy | May 19 20:01 |
| DaemonFC | no matter who you are | May 19 20:01 |
| DaemonFC | Linux distros crank those out within days | May 19 20:01 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: Apple may be a little less secure than Linux | May 19 20:02 |
| Balrog_ | it's still many times more secure than Windows | May 19 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | and even Microsoft has a patch Tuesday once a month | May 19 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | Apple waits 8 months | May 19 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | I mean shit | May 19 20:02 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, but what Microsoft /doesn't/ patch is what matters | May 19 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | they let 67 security holes go unpatched | May 19 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | while they sit on their thumb? | May 19 20:02 |
| Balrog_ | URLs please? | May 19 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | already posted | May 19 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | "Microsoft, which historically has had the view of producing the less-secure operating system, puts out one bulletin today, with 14 vulnerabilities. And Apple comes out with [an update with] 67 bugs, It's a 'I coulda had a V8' moment, where you slap your forehead. It's like history changed in front of my eyes." | May 19 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=Macintosh+OS&articleId=9132998&taxonomyId=123&pageNumber=1 | May 19 20:03 |
| Balrog_ | oh ... and the exploit used in Pwn2Own was kept secret for over a year. | May 19 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | " Apple Inc. today patched 67 vulnerabilities in Mac OS X, including two bugs that researchers used in March to walk off with $5,000 each in a noted hacking contest." | May 19 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | "According to Computerworld, many of the patches were related to Open Source applications or components integrated with Mac OS X, such as Apache Web server and the WebKit browser rendering engine. Andrew Storms, director of security operations at nCircle Network Security, said that he had seen patches for those security holes issued for Linux nearly half a year ago in December. Yet Apple... | May 19 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | ...waited until May to fix them." | May 19 20:04 |
| Balrog_ | they hired the security director from OLPC, btw | May 19 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | http://blogs.computerworld.com/four_things_apple_can_learn_from_microsoft_about_security | May 19 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | so from DECEMBER 2008 to MAY 12 2009 | May 19 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | those Macs were sitting targets | May 19 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Preston Gralla??? | May 19 20:05 |
| schestowitz | You're joking right? | May 19 20:05 |
| schestowitz | THis only makes you seem like his yes man | May 19 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Apple would dispatch the patched more quickly had the risks been high | May 19 20:05 |
| schestowitz | But they are not | May 19 20:05 |
| schestowitz | So the intervals vary | May 19 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Same with Mandriva | May 19 20:05 |
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| DaemonFC | so how critical are they? | May 19 20:05 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: Apple does extensive combined testing | May 19 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft has ignroed some holes FOR YEARS | May 19 20:06 |
| Balrog_ | the update specified had at least 10 beta versions | May 19 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't matter, security should take a priority over possibly disturbing the system | May 19 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | patch it now before malware starts making the rounds | May 19 20:06 |
| Balrog_ | except that disturbing the system will lead to pissed off customers | May 19 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | so will worms | May 19 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 19 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | that Mac botnet | May 19 20:07 |
| Balrog_ | so you have to balance it | May 19 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | I hadn't heard about that | May 19 20:07 |
| *DaemonFC googles it | May 19 20:07 | |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: that Mac botnet was caused by the iWork and Photoshop trojans | May 19 20:07 |
| Balrog_ | which were embedded in torrents of those apps | May 19 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/04/evidence-suggests-first-zombie-mac-botnet-is-active.ars | May 19 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | nice | May 19 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | and of course they had no antivirus | May 19 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | HAHA! | May 19 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 20:07 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: antivirus would NOT help | May 19 20:07 |
| Balrog_ | they were installer packages | May 19 20:07 |
| Balrog_ | you had to authenticate them as root | May 19 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | right | May 19 20:08 |
| Balrog_ | quite ordinary trojans, I'd say | May 19 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | the antivirus would detect the shit | May 19 20:08 |
| Balrog_ | not really | May 19 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | as soon as it hit the hard disk | May 19 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | much less before you could click on it | May 19 20:08 |
| Balrog_ | also ... an antivirus uses A LOT of system resources | May 19 20:08 |
| Balrog_ | Symantec AV for Mac SUCKS | May 19 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | depends | May 19 20:08 |
| Balrog_ | it's simple here: don't run stuff from dubious sources without auditing it | May 19 20:09 |
| Balrog_ | and auditing installer packages is easy | May 19 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | depends on (A) Which antivirus (B) How paranoid do you want it to be? | May 19 20:09 |
| Balrog_ | (note that they could have put 'rm -rf /' in the package too) | May 19 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | ClamWin is next to worthless | May 19 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | it's fast because it has no real time scanner | May 19 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | so you have to manually scan | May 19 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | and it only detects 67% of malware | May 19 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | at least on the last AV comparative | May 19 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | I alkso don't think it can use heuristics | May 19 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | so it's limited to pattern files | May 19 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | I hear people talk about ClamWin when really it's as good as using nothing at all | May 19 20:12 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: NO system update can block trojans | May 19 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | should be interesting to see Microsoft's free antivirus | May 19 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | I hear that's coming in a couple months | May 19 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | not that by interesting I mean I wonder if it will suck as bad as OneCare | May 19 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | or worse | May 19 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | and how many people take a bite | May 19 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clam_AntiVirus#Comparisons | May 19 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 19 20:16 |
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| Balrog_ | is there any good foss AV? | May 19 20:20 |
| schestowitz | What for? | May 19 20:23 |
| schestowitz | Windows? | May 19 20:23 |
| schestowitz | Dimdim is not fair to Linux. "And currently Linux desktops cannot share their desktops with other users." http://blogs.computerworld.com/open_source_to_steal_web_conferencing_market | May 19 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | Balrog_: It seems not | May 19 20:32 |
| Balrog_ | ok. | May 19 20:32 |
| Balrog_ | then don't push AV! ;) | May 19 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | I use Avast | May 19 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 19 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | you should too | May 19 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.avast.com/eng/avast-for-linux-workstation.html | May 19 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 19 20:33 |
| Balrog_ | on windows systems, I do | May 19 20:33 |
| Balrog_ | except here, where Symantec Endpoint Protection (with a backdoor accessible by the univ) is mandatory | May 19 20:34 |
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| Balrog_ | grrr | May 19 20:38 |
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| schestowitz | No word about Meld in a while... http://www.embedded-computing.com/articles/id/?3969 (Promoting open-source collaboration) | May 19 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Oh dear. The DDOS on BN is going to make front page of Digg.com. http://digg.com/linux_unix/Burying_the_truth_Boycott_Novell_hit_by_DDoS_attack | May 19 21:04 |
| schestowitz | LT editor say: | May 19 21:05 |
| schestowitz | "I've seen a number of troll campaigns against Roy on my site. Mostly one or two people posting multiple comments from the same IP address and using different names on each comment (Like duh, people! Who do you think you're fooling?), sometimes even from Novell.com addresses. (Like duh again, sheesh!) It's rare when any of them attempt any kind of factual rebuttal using their real names, or at least disclosing their Novell affiliat | May 19 21:05 |
| schestowitz | ions. Love Roy or hate him, stooping to these tactics doesn't do much for their credibility. | May 19 21:05 |
| schestowitz | ps- I haven't seen anything that even hints that Novell management have anything to do with the trolling or other attacks, and I think that is the least likely explanation. There are plenty of thin-skinned fanbois." | May 19 21:05 |
| Balrog_ | ls | May 19 21:11 |
| Balrog_ | sorry * | May 19 21:11 |
| schestowitz | ls: command not found | May 19 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: seems like you got rootkitted | May 19 21:14 |
| Balrog_ | haha | May 19 21:15 |
| Balrog_ | I did that by accident | May 19 21:15 |
| Balrog_ | though I did break rm on one occasion | May 19 21:15 |
| Balrog_ | 'cd /bin && mv rm rm.' | May 19 21:15 |
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| Balrog_ | http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/19/1931249&art_pos=1 | May 19 21:33 |
| Balrog_ | "Microsoft Patents Crippling Operating Systems" | May 19 21:33 |
| Balrog_ | this is so OBVIOUS ... just HOW can it get patented?!?? | May 19 21:33 |
| schestowitz | USPTO | May 19 21:34 |
| comradekingu | Will cannonical drop mono alltogether from karmic koala? I read http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/18/gnote-enters-ubuntu-karmic/ which lead me to believe tomboy was dropped for gnote. That leaves f-spot as the only bundled app with mono dependencies | May 19 21:34 |
| schestowitz | They also approved a patent on swinging a swing | May 19 21:34 |
| Balrog_ | comradekingu: that doesn't mean anything | May 19 21:34 |
| Balrog_ | just that gnote is in the karmic repo | May 19 21:34 |
| schestowitz | comradekingu: not yet | May 19 21:34 |
| Balrog_ | we have NO IDEA what may happen :/ | May 19 21:34 |
| schestowitz | It's in the repos | May 19 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Tomboy and gnote have long to go | May 19 21:35 |
| comradekingu | irony strikes back at your comment Balrog_ :) | May 19 21:35 |
| schestowitz | Fedora 12might preinstall gnote, so to speak | May 19 21:35 |
| comradekingu | ok | May 19 21:35 |
| Balrog_ | Fedora, more likely | May 19 21:35 |
| Balrog_ | *much* more likely | May 19 21:35 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 19 21:35 |
| schestowitz | There is a ML discussion about ir | May 19 21:35 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat staff | May 19 21:35 |
| schestowitz | They never loved Mono | May 19 21:36 |
| comradekingu | I would imagine the 30 or so MB mono cruft on the 700 MB iso would be a good riddance. | May 19 21:36 |
| comradekingu | Is gnote on par with tomboy? I havent used either | May 19 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: the /. news is old apart from the approval | May 19 21:36 |
| Balrog_ | ah ok. | May 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz | People spotted the application before | May 19 21:37 |
| Balrog_ | comradekingu: if you're not using extensions, yes | May 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz | Now there's magic wand | May 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8057133.stm http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/J_Allard_Microsoft_researchers_seek_patent_on_a_magic_wand.html | May 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz | comradekingu: yes, apart from plugins | May 19 21:37 |
| schestowitz | For the most part anyway | May 19 21:37 |
| comradekingu | So f-spot is whats keeping mono in the image? | May 19 21:38 |
| Balrog_ | probably | May 19 21:39 |
| Balrog_ | also it's politics, in part | May 19 21:39 |
| comradekingu | Im guessing cannonical has no reason to leave it in besides supporting the bundled applications. A 30MB extra-image viewer seems a bit excessive when gnote can replace tomboy | May 19 21:39 |
| Balrog_ | also the Tomboy people are crying foul | May 19 21:40 |
| comradekingu | How come? | May 19 21:40 |
| schestowitz | comradekingu: E-mail Canonical about it | May 19 21:40 |
| Balrog_ | they say it's bad for the community | May 19 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Their Web 2.0 toys don't do much | May 19 21:40 |
| schestowitz | They are also guarded by Microvellers | May 19 21:40 |
| comradekingu | How hard can it be to recode a note-taking app in something other than .net? | May 19 21:41 |
| Balrog_ | well, it's because gnote is a direct port | May 19 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Not hard apparently | May 19 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Hubert ported Tomboy in just weeks | May 19 21:41 |
| comradekingu | So that the plugins work? | May 19 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Mechanic line-by-line | May 19 21:41 |
| schestowitz | comradekingu: the Mono fans say "no" | May 19 21:42 |
| schestowitz | But I don't know. They are biased | May 19 21:42 |
| Balrog_ | comradekingu: plugins probably are written in C# | May 19 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: he or others can port them too | May 19 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Plug-ins ought to be smaller in scale | May 19 21:42 |
| Balrog_ | true | May 19 21:42 |
| Balrog_ | but they won't work out of the box | May 19 21:42 |
| comradekingu | Regardless of politics, one app doesnt warrant the inclusion of a whole library imo. F-spot isnt a killer one in that regard | May 19 21:43 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | May 19 21:43 | |
| Balrog_ | true. | May 19 21:44 |
| Balrog_ | note that Jo Shields is a MOTU, but that may not matter much in this regard. | May 19 21:44 |
| comradekingu | With more stuff going in and less of a reson to keep mono its a hard to argument for it. Also from a bandwidth perspective it makes sense to cut it | May 19 21:45 |
| Balrog_ | yeah. | May 19 21:45 |
| comradekingu | Ive seen some of the alpha builds miss the cd-r target in the past | May 19 21:45 |
| comradekingu | Restrictions restrictions... | May 19 21:46 |
| Balrog_ | :/ | May 19 21:47 |
| comradekingu | Speaking of BS http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8057133.stm 2007 is when work started on the "magic wand" | May 19 21:47 |
| comradekingu | Computex is right around the corner. With all the ARM devices in the works (and presumably on display) I wonder what MS has in store for that. | May 19 21:49 |
| schestowitz | comradekingu: they already bleed there | May 19 21:55 |
| schestowitz | They harm sales of permium versions of Windows | May 19 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft does not sell computers | May 19 21:55 |
| schestowitz | It licences an OS | May 19 21:55 |
| schestowitz | In netbooks it charges no more than $15 and sometimes it's allegedly paying kickbacks to kick out Linux | May 19 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Not very profitable, eh? | May 19 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Earnings for MSFT down 32% in ONE quarter | May 19 21:56 |
| balzac | Ballmer can't wank to that kind of news | May 19 22:08 |
| schestowitz | Does he wank? He seems to inhuman and incapable of it. | May 19 22:09 |
| balzac | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_u1jPLOIA | May 19 22:10 |
| balzac | well, he probably requires and audience | May 19 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Groaning, yelping and humping chair sounds more like it. Sort of like a rhino. | May 19 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Gartner... the shills he pays | May 19 22:12 |
| schestowitz | And gates invests in | May 19 22:12 |
| schestowitz | I saw other videos of Ballmer+Gartner | May 19 22:12 |
| schestowitz | Makes you want to puke.. | May 19 22:12 |
| balzac | I can't help being a fan of his media antics, even while I'm banking on the failure of his company | May 19 22:12 |
| balzac | he's hilarious | May 19 22:12 |
| schestowitz | See Kucinich vs Moody's | May 19 22:12 |
| schestowitz | They are all corrupt | May 19 22:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4GOd4uKy3c | May 19 22:12 |
| schestowitz | In case you wonder how MS gets those "AA" ratings and all | May 19 22:13 |
| balzac | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8To-6VIJZRE | May 19 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Use this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phioe4DGu5E&feature=related | May 19 22:13 |
| balzac | Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! Developers! | May 19 22:13 |
| balzac | Kuuuuccc! | May 19 22:14 |
| schestowitz | BTW, the attack on us will make the big news: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Burying_the_truth_Boycott_Novell_hit_by_DDoS_attack (ping tessier) | May 19 22:15 |
| balzac | excellent | May 19 22:15 |
| balzac | alright, I went ahead and connected my facebook to digg, just so I can digg this | May 19 22:17 |
| balzac | it's annoying to me that Digg doesn't allow underscores in passwords | May 19 22:18 |
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| balzac | dugg | May 19 22:21 |
| *schestowitz knows balzac's passwords now | May 19 22:22 | |
| schestowitz | _________ | May 19 22:22 |
| schestowitz | Oops | May 19 22:22 |
| schestowitz | ***** | May 19 22:22 |
| balzac | http://hmrgroup.co.uk <--- they stole the ubuntu logo | May 19 22:23 |
| tacone | good evening | May 19 22:23 |
| balzac | they're getting digg-swarmed. I bet their designer is going to be very embarrassed | May 19 22:23 |
| schestowitz | balzac: good for them | May 19 22:24 |
| schestowitz | They don't sell PCs | May 19 22:24 |
| schestowitz | And Ubuntu stole its logo too | May 19 22:24 |
| schestowitz | It was inspired by many others like it | May 19 22:24 |
| schestowitz | Canonical should press them.. | May 19 22:25 |
| schestowitz | To move to Ubuntu | May 19 22:25 |
| balzac | well, this one is a bit too close | May 19 22:25 |
| schestowitz | "You can use this logo, but do it right ;-) " | May 19 22:25 |
| balzac | who did ubuntu steal their logo from? | May 19 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Many like it | May 19 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Circle of people | May 19 22:25 |
| schestowitz | MSN did this too | May 19 22:25 |
| balzac | I've got a new name for ubuntu | May 19 22:25 |
| balzac | I'm still banned from #ubuntu | May 19 22:26 |
| balzac | so I can call it ubootme | May 19 22:26 |
| balzac | or unoobtu | May 19 22:26 |
| tacone | balzac: what did you do ? | May 19 22:26 |
| balzac | but nevertheless, I still using it | May 19 22:26 |
| balzac | tacone: i questioned authority | May 19 22:26 |
| balzac | compared the ops to mall cops | May 19 22:26 |
| tacone | schestowitz: canonical has pressed some linux related parties to not adopt their trademark | May 19 22:26 |
| balzac | it's universal on IRC, yet not a problem in BN | May 19 22:27 |
| tacone | but it's not the first time i see the ubuntu logo used in other business sectors | May 19 22:27 |
| tacone | and i'm not aware of any action to handle that. | May 19 22:27 |
| balzac | well, ubuntu has a swarm of nerds | May 19 22:27 |
| balzac | i wouldn't use their logo for my company | May 19 22:27 |
| balzac | heck, i'm one of the ubuntu nerds, and i looked for a place to leave a critical comment | May 19 22:28 |
| schestowitz | balzac: humanity for others, ban for you | May 19 22:28 |
| schestowitz | Nice people... | May 19 22:28 |
| balzac | well, it's irc more than it's ubuntu | May 19 22:29 |
| balzac | I've always had a problem with authoritarian irc ops | May 19 22:30 |
| tacone | not a good place to question authority, it's a crowded support channel | May 19 22:30 |
| tacone | well ubuntu guys are behaving pretty politely i think | May 19 22:30 |
| balzac | that's why i'm here. Like you, I'm not content to go along with a bunch of bullsh*t | May 19 22:30 |
| balzac | tacone: it wasn't there | May 19 22:30 |
| tacone | but #ubuntu is war-ground. too many people, too much chaos. | May 19 22:31 |
| tacone | balzac: what happened ? | May 19 22:31 |
| balzac | it was after a quick enforcement then I questioned their terseness in #ubuntu-ops | May 19 22:31 |
| balzac | that's when they got permanently bent out of shape | May 19 22:31 |
| MinceR | it all depends on what "humanity" really is ;) | May 19 22:31 |
| balzac | i said I thought they were a little too efficient, terse, and then they acted like complete authoritarians as I discussed the matter in #ubuntu-ops | May 19 22:32 |
| *neonfloss has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 19 22:32 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Human flesh | May 19 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Humanity for others | May 19 22:32 |
| schestowitz | If we run out of crops, then we donate our bodies | May 19 22:32 |
| tacone | uhm | May 19 22:32 |
| MinceR | i was thinking more along the lines of human nature and what human beings typically do to each other :> | May 19 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Like the Argentinan Rugby Teeam whose plane crashed | May 19 22:33 |
| MinceR | obviously, that was not what they meant | May 19 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Oh, well... | May 19 22:33 |
| balzac | I've mentally isolated the two factors - one is IRC, and I'm quite familiar with the rules and conventions of IRC, and freenode | May 19 22:33 |
| balzac | the other is separate and not very much related - ubuntu | May 19 22:33 |
| balzac | IRC ops love to be rude, because for many of them (not Roy), it's all they've got | May 19 22:34 |
| balzac | authoritarianism comes easily to those with too much time on their hands | May 19 22:34 |
| balzac | they said I was too arrogant | May 19 22:34 |
| balzac | so they care enough about each individual to hold a personal grudge | May 19 22:35 |
| balzac | that's IRC[MALL]OPs | May 19 22:35 |
| balzac | I suggested I might try the community council, but then I decided I didn't want to stress this one poor guy who took things too seriously | May 19 22:36 |
| balzac | I tried to drop it with him, because for me, it's not personal, it's how I engage bureaucracy | May 19 22:36 |
| balzac | Then I figured, I'd rather engage in the context of professional conduct, not "community". I'm too old (over 30), to jump through hoops like I'm on a reality TV show, and have some 20-something busting my chops over the Ubuntu Code of Conduct, which is meant for teenagers. | May 19 22:38 |
| tacone | who was that op ? | May 19 22:38 |
| balzac | so, that's where it is. I'm not worried about it, but I find it amusing. | May 19 22:38 |
| balzac | tacone: as I said, it's not personal for me. I don't want to stress this poor guy. | May 19 22:39 |
| tacone | balzac: ok | May 19 22:39 |
| balzac | I don't want personal accountability, or a corporate standard of "professional conduct" on irc | May 19 22:39 |
| tacone | outlaws don't accept the CoC :) | May 19 22:40 |
| balzac | IRC is informal and it's fine that way. I've been using it for well over a decade. | May 19 22:40 |
| balzac | The dude said 6 months, and honestly, I won't even worry about it. | May 19 22:40 |
| tacone | i don't think it's automated | May 19 22:41 |
| balzac | it's petty and silly, but not my problem. If I want, I can go there under another pseudonym. | May 19 22:41 |
| balzac | well, they want me to give a mea culpa | May 19 22:41 |
| tacone | they leave an annotation somewhere about the bans, and remove if they remember | May 19 22:41 |
| balzac | maybe cry a little bit | May 19 22:41 |
| balzac | work it out | May 19 22:41 |
| balzac | group hug... | May 19 22:42 |
| balzac | *sniff* | May 19 22:42 |
| tacone | :°°°° | May 19 22:42 |
| balzac | it's good to know I've got you guys to cry to | May 19 22:42 |
| tacone | lol | May 19 22:42 |
| balzac | if I were Roy, I'd ban me about now | May 19 22:42 |
| balzac | Anyway, IRC grudges are not for people who have a life. | May 19 22:43 |
| balzac | I see more poontang in one night than your average IRC user in a decade | May 19 22:44 |
| balzac | (one night at my favorite strip club, that is) | May 19 22:44 |
| balzac | </oversharing> | May 19 22:44 |
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| tacone | </sleeping> | May 19 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | May 19 22:48 |
| schestowitz | Just caught up | May 19 22:48 |
| schestowitz | :°°°° | May 19 22:49 |
| schestowitz | :°°° | May 19 22:49 |
| schestowitz | :°° | May 19 22:49 |
| schestowitz | :° | May 19 22:49 |
| schestowitz | BOOM!!!!!!! | May 19 22:49 |
| _Hicham_ | were u at the gym? | May 19 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Nope | May 19 22:53 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Been busy with work all day but I'm ready to reload the db now...May 18 14:30 boycottn_wiki.sql and boycottn_wrdp1.sql are what you want loaded up? | May 19 22:53 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Oh, waity | May 19 22:53 |
| tessier | Delete existing data and replace with those files? | May 19 22:53 |
| schestowitz | Yes, but ages ago | May 19 22:53 |
| schestowitz | To pass time | May 19 22:53 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes, the ones in ~/ | May 19 22:53 |
| schestowitz | mysql.sql might be of use to you too (see in text editor) | May 19 22:54 |
| tessier | ok | May 19 22:54 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes. | May 19 22:54 |
| tessier | here goes... | May 19 22:54 |
| schestowitz | Maybe disable sql server before swapping, dunno.. | May 19 22:54 |
| schestowitz | Might not make a difference | May 19 22:54 |
| tessier | I'm going to have to disable the site for a few minutes... | May 19 22:54 |
| schestowitz | That's fine :-) | May 19 22:54 |
| MinceR | i lol'd >> http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/19/1931249&from=rss | May 19 22:54 |
| tessier | Just so people don't get crazy broken sql error pages etc. | May 19 22:54 |
| schestowitz | yes | May 19 22:55 |
| schestowitz | tessier: that's the last time I'd be bothering you ;-) | May 19 22:55 |
| schestowitz | I did all the rest | May 19 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Also, the boycottn dir is now just 2.2GB | May 19 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Compacted maximally | May 19 22:55 |
| balzac | some people like to use windows, and similarly, some people like to have their nipples clamped with clothes-pins | May 19 22:58 |
| balzac | microsoft is a twisted fetish for the most dedicated users | May 19 22:59 |
| balzac | Steve Ballmer in lingerie is their fantasy | May 19 22:59 |
| tessier | schestowitz: It's up...check it out and let me know what you think | May 19 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Cool | May 19 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Let me check | May 19 22:59 |
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| schestowitz | I think it's cached. let's see. | May 19 23:00 |
| tessier | schestowitz: No worries. Sometime in the next day or two I will need to cooperate with you again to move the site off onto its own virtual machine. It's a target and I don't want it hosted with my own personal and corporate stuff for too long. :) | May 19 23:00 |
| tessier | shift-reload | May 19 23:00 |
| schestowitz | I'll empoty cache | May 19 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Seems good | May 19 23:00 |
| schestowitz | tessier: sounds good | May 19 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Let me check.. | May 19 23:00 |
| balzac | alright, back to work, now that I've caused you to imagine a very rancid picture | May 19 23:00 |
| balzac | =] | May 19 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Yaya | May 19 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Yay | May 19 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Seems to be OK | May 19 23:01 |
| schestowitz | Hold on | May 19 23:01 |
| tessier | I did a mysqladmin drop on the db and loaded up the .sql files you gave me so it should have the new data... | May 19 23:01 |
| tessier | cool. | May 19 23:01 |
| tessier | On the new server you will have root access and access to system logs etc. | May 19 23:01 |
| schestowitz | Cache emptied | May 19 23:01 |
| schestowitz | Yay | May 19 23:01 |
| schestowitz | Yes, it's perfect | May 19 23:01 |
| schestowitz | Now I can merge | May 19 23:02 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes, perfect! | May 19 23:02 |
| schestowitz | Now the site can be restored by me manually | May 19 23:03 |
| schestowitz | Thanks! | May 19 23:03 |
| tacone | nice that the website works again | May 19 23:04 |
| balzac | sweet | May 19 23:04 |
| schestowitz | tacone: summary: | May 19 23:05 |
| schestowitz | basically, I had an out of date backup | May 19 23:05 |
| schestowitz | The host gave me the latest only yesterday | May 19 23:05 |
| schestowitz | I will add the diffs | May 19 23:05 |
| schestowitz | And then we're ready to rock at warp speed | May 19 23:06 |
| schestowitz | balzac: read http://www.stefanoforenza.com/the-mono-crusade/ | May 19 23:06 |
| *schestowitz posts this to USENET right now | May 19 23:06 | |
| schestowitz | Miguel de Icaza comments there | May 19 23:07 |
| tacone | didnt notice | May 19 23:11 |
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| tacone | icaza where ? | May 19 23:11 |
| tacone | going offline shortly | May 19 23:13 |
| tacone | schestowitz: ? | May 19 23:13 |
| schestowitz | tacone: watch Comp.os.linux.advocacy | May 19 23:13 |
| schestowitz | He confronts us there sometimes | May 19 23:13 |
| tacone | ah | May 19 23:13 |
| tacone | ok | May 19 23:13 |
| schestowitz | In BN he rarely comments though he read it daily | May 19 23:13 |
| tacone | i guessed on my post. but no comment. :P | May 19 23:14 |
| tacone | disconnecting for a moment | May 19 23:16 |
| tacone | back soon | May 19 23:16 |
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| tacone_ | back | May 19 23:17 |
| tacone_ | I'm from the phone. so it will crash many times | May 19 23:17 |
| schestowitz | tacone: ... | May 19 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Question | May 19 23:18 |
| schestowitz | When I repost older posts the dates in URLs change | May 19 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Thus, older links break | May 19 23:18 |
| tacone_ | uhm | May 19 23:18 |
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| schestowitz | e.g. "11/4/post-slug"->"11/5/post-slug" | May 19 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | Any fix? | May 19 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Other than manually changing post date? | May 19 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | Would this even work? | May 19 23:19 |
| schestowitz | I think wordpress makes URL based on posting time even if modified. | May 19 23:19 |
| schestowitz | No? | May 19 23:19 |
| tacone | I guess I missed a MSG | May 19 23:19 |
| tacone | usually wordpress has a big respect for permallnks | May 19 23:20 |
| tacone | it really shouldn't break | May 19 23:20 |
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| schestowitz | Oh ait | May 19 23:21 |
| schestowitz | I can change the date | May 19 23:21 |
| schestowitz | It fixes it | May 19 23:21 |
| schestowitz | tacone: I cracked it | May 19 23:21 |
| tacone | cracked wordpress ? | May 19 23:21 |
| tacone | what's the real problem ? | May 19 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Heh | May 19 23:24 |
| schestowitz | More like "I've cracked the puzzle" | May 19 23:24 |
| schestowitz | tacone: some sites link to posts I made during DDOS | May 19 23:24 |
| schestowitz | I repost these now | May 19 23:24 |
| schestowitz | So I need to change posting datre too | May 19 23:25 |
| schestowitz | To keep URLs in tact | May 19 23:25 |
| schestowitz | *date | May 19 23:25 |
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| tacone | oh fuck. pls repost your MSG | May 19 23:26 |
| tacone | I'll download another irc client for this thing | May 19 23:27 |
| tacone | I have irssi but it doesn't seem to work on the iPhone I don't know why | May 19 23:28 |
| MinceR | gn | May 19 23:28 |
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| schestowitz | tacone: | May 19 23:29 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Heh | May 19 23:29 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> More like "I've cracked the puzzle" | May 19 23:29 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> tacone: some sites link to posts I made during DDOS | May 19 23:29 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> I repost these now | May 19 23:29 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> So I need to change posting datre too | May 19 23:29 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> To keep URLs in tact | May 19 23:29 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> *date | May 19 23:29 |
| tacone | repost = from scratch or just an update ? | May 19 23:30 |
| tacone | guess the easiest way us to mess the wp-posts table with phpmyamin | May 19 23:31 |
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