IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 21st, 2009

schestowitzPolice abuse: Woman cuffed for not holding escalator handrail < http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090515.wescalator16/BNStory/National/home >May 21 00:01
schestowitzHow Old is that Data on the Hard Drive? < http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7336/ >May 21 00:03
schestowitzMany Sun Products to Wither and Die < http://www.cioupdate.com/features/article.php/3821266/Many-Sun-Products-to-Wither-and-Die.htm >. Will Oracle keep JavaFX?May 21 00:04
DaemonFCdrug tests are basically just an excuse to get out of paying for on the job accidentsMay 21 00:04
DaemonFCif you hurt yourself at work and smoked pot 3 weeks agoMay 21 00:04
schestowitzIt must be depressing to work on products that die before birthMay 21 00:04
schestowitzLike FoleoMay 21 00:04
DaemonFCit's enough to get out of paying for your medical billsMay 21 00:04
schestowitzAt least they get paidMay 21 00:04
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DaemonFCVuze is number 1 on Sourceforge?May 21 00:06
DaemonFCewwwMay 21 00:06
Ziggyfishreading the 'So what? Windows 7: 7 Reasons Not to Get too Excited (Update) ' article.May 21 00:06
ZiggyfishWith these types of articles, it's always funny to read the comments.May 21 00:06
schestowitzExpensive those laptops from Dell with Linux..... http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2137665037.html?kc=rssMay 21 00:07
ZiggyfishThere is a comment that refers to the followingMay 21 00:07
ZiggyfishAlthough the new Windows is officially compatible with Netbooks, the hardware requirements are still considerably too high. Even when the standard new computer has 1 GB available, many notebooks function with 512 MB over 786. Windows 7 needs at least 1 GB to run, and the 64 bit version requires at least 2 GB RAM. Also, in matters of disk space, a partition for the installation of Windows 7 takes at least 16 GB. In this case, LinuMay 21 00:07
Ziggyfishx installation clearly takes less pork to get going.May 21 00:07
ZiggyfishComment - 4> Disk space may be an issue for SSDs, but still, on current hard drives, who cares? The smallest hard drives on the market today are over 100GiB in size.May 21 00:08
schestowitzYeahMay 21 00:08
schestowitzWell, they'll need to 'beef up' those netbooksMay 21 00:08
schestowitzMaking them more like notebooksMay 21 00:08
schestowitzFuh-get about $199 sub-notebooksMay 21 00:08
ZiggyfishA comment like that, tells you that the commenter has no clue.May 21 00:09
ZiggyfishVista 7 will have to be the best OS, not just Microsoft has produced, but also the whole IT industry.May 21 00:11
schestowitzWatch Black Duck kissing the crooks from Microsoft: http://ostatic.com/blog/black-duck-collaborates-with-microsoft-on-codeplex-project-availability (Black Duck Collaborates With Microsoft on CodePlex Project Availability)May 21 00:11
schestowitzThat Peter due it stalking posts about the companyMay 21 00:11
schestowitzHe confronted BNMay 21 00:12
schestowitzOther sites tooMay 21 00:12
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schestowitzPeter Brook oMay 21 00:12
ZiggyfishniceMay 21 00:12
schestowitzHi, LastGuyonEarth May 21 00:12
LastGuyonEarthHey, Roy.May 21 00:12
DaemonFCI think they'll do a Promo Step-UpMay 21 00:12
schestowitzZiggyfish: no, these are AstroTurfersMay 21 00:12
LastGuyonEarthHow are things?May 21 00:12
schestowitzMicrosoft must employ themMay 21 00:12
DaemonFCthey've done it before when they were desperate to sell somethingMay 21 00:12
schestowitzTo have people believe it's like Vista in 2006May 21 00:12
schestowitzMicrosoft AstroTurferd for it back then tooMay 21 00:13
DaemonFCwell it didn't workMay 21 00:13
schestowitzBefore people found out for themselves that it was turdMay 21 00:13
DaemonFCXP had like 3 users by this point in its lifecycle for every 1 that Vista has nowMay 21 00:13
DaemonFC:PMay 21 00:13
ZiggyfishI noticed this same tatic when vista was releasedMay 21 00:13
schestowitzZiggyfish: they also attack criticsMay 21 00:13
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schestowitzLike DaemonFC May 21 00:13
schestowitzAnd some guy from IDGMay 21 00:13
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schestowitzNw nameMay 21 00:14
schestowitzCitizenCaneMay 21 00:14
schestowitzKaneMay 21 00:14
SirSanelolMay 21 00:14
DaemonFCI think really the difference in XP and Vista, or at least a big one is that they don't have trendy customersMay 21 00:14
DaemonFCseriouslyMay 21 00:14
ZiggyfishlolMay 21 00:14
DaemonFCMac users and Mary Rottencrotch WallmartShopper and the $400 emachineMay 21 00:14
DaemonFCare two different types of customerMay 21 00:14
schestowitzOh Gads... now they do an interview with pseudopen-source bluenog.. http://ostatic.com/blog/bluenog-ice-on-open-source-software-commercial-support-and-higher-educationMay 21 00:15
DaemonFCthey put Vista out on some systems with a slow processor, integrated video, and maybe 1 gig of RAMMay 21 00:15
DaemonFCthat's why it floppedMay 21 00:15
DaemonFCthat's not the only explanationMay 21 00:15
DaemonFCbut people were saying XP was slow and bloatedMay 21 00:15
schestowitzNopeMay 21 00:15
DaemonFCwhen what happened was that they bought a machine with 128 megs of RAMMay 21 00:16
schestowitzWhat about compatibility?May 21 00:16
DaemonFCintegrated videoMay 21 00:16
DaemonFCCeleronMay 21 00:16
schestowitzAmong other issues.May 21 00:16
DaemonFCXP also had bad comaptibilityMay 21 00:16
SirSaneschestowitz: Something you might be concerned about.May 21 00:16
DaemonFCwith previous WindowsMay 21 00:16
schestowitzI have Ubuntu running on a CeleronMay 21 00:16
DaemonFCso XP had a lot of the same problems as VistaMay 21 00:16
DaemonFCat launchMay 21 00:16
SirSaneschestowitz: One of the linsux.org staffers claims to be behind your recent DDOSMay 21 00:16
DaemonFCso why was it such a success?May 21 00:16
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DaemonFC*compatibility problemsMay 21 00:17
Ziggyfishschestowitz, it's said that Linux still runs on a 486May 21 00:17
DaemonFCActually I think Windows XP RTM was at least as much of a nightmare as Vista RTMMay 21 00:17
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schestowitzYuck. http://www.google.com/search?q=site:linsux.org+schestowitz&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=enMay 21 00:17
DaemonFCmaybe hardware got faster and faster, Vista kept getting delayed, and you had XP running on really fast machinesMay 21 00:18
schestowitzoiaohm: check this.May 21 00:18
DaemonFCthen you slam them with a new version that's much slowerMay 21 00:18
schestowitz<SirSane> schestowitz: Something you might be concerned aboutMay 21 00:18
schestowitz<SirSane> schestowitz: One of the linsux.org staffers claims to be behind your recent DDOSMay 21 00:18
DaemonFCwhen they were getting used to a machine that was responsive :)May 21 00:18
schestowitzNo link to proof of such a claim thoughMay 21 00:18
DaemonFCyou can't go too long without a release if you're Microsoft, or else the hardware will get to where it runs the current version too wellMay 21 00:18
taconebetter than nothingMay 21 00:19
DaemonFC:)May 21 00:19
DaemonFCand you'll never get them away from itMay 21 00:19
DaemonFCheheMay 21 00:19
Ziggyfishanyway back to workMay 21 00:21
schestowitzIt runs on 486sMay 21 00:21
schestowitzNot many distros thoughMay 21 00:21
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mib_qqzps8yayMay 21 00:24
mib_qqzps8gotta love mibbitMay 21 00:24
taconehttp://linsux.org/index.php/topic,1096.msg10496.html#msg10496May 21 00:24
mib_qqzps8what's the status of stuff NovellMay 21 00:24
Balrog_linsux is pro bsd, right?May 21 00:24
Balrog_'Sir Sane' is an admin thereMay 21 00:25
tacone"Stupid motherfuckers. You're going to deserve every bit of what's coming to you in 2012."May 21 00:29
mib_qqzps8what's coming in 2012? is that the mayan calendar thing?May 21 00:30
mib_qqzps8unix epoch?May 21 00:30
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taconeend of novell dealMay 21 00:31
mib_qqzps8oh?May 21 00:32
schestowitzI don't see where it says they did itMay 21 00:32
schestowitzThat site is cholera BTWMay 21 00:32
schestowitzAnd they also gave me harassment from there (not that I read that). I've no idea what it's about and saw it for the first time nowMay 21 00:33
mib_qqzps8it looks like a youngster site to meMay 21 00:33
mib_qqzps8and since i use both os x and linuxesMay 21 00:33
mib_qqzps8i can't imagine a more pointless flame war than BSD vs. LinuxMay 21 00:34
mib_qqzps8;)May 21 00:34
schestowitzFTC Looks To Regulate Blogger Credibility < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090519/1030204931.shtml >May 21 00:34
taconebloggers are not credibleMay 21 00:36
taconeotherwise the would be journali...mwuhahuahauha :)May 21 00:37
mib_qqzps8journalists work hard to be credibleMay 21 00:39
mib_qqzps8as a journalist, i wish to pass the buck to editors and publishers and producers :)May 21 00:39
mib_qqzps8glad to see the DDoS attack is over?May 21 00:40
mib_qqzps8good luck schestowitzMay 21 00:40
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taconedisconnectingMay 21 00:40
taconebyeMay 21 00:40
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DaemonFCschestowitz: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3203100974_f5415ff7ab_b.jpgMay 21 00:45
DaemonFChehMay 21 00:45
DaemonFCsee anything wrong here?May 21 00:45
Balrog_hehMay 21 00:46
DaemonFChttp://www.thedailybackground.com/2009/01/16/exclusive-belkins-development-rep-is-hiring-people-to-write-fake-positive-amazon-reviews/May 21 00:47
schestowitzIsn't this the old.May 21 00:47
schestowitz...May 21 00:47
schestowitzNever mindMay 21 00:47
schestowitzBeat me to itMay 21 00:47
schestowitzYes, I thought it was thatMay 21 00:47
schestowitzSony does the same thingMay 21 00:48
schestowitzBN has articles about itMay 21 00:48
schestowitzBelkin tooMay 21 00:48
DaemonFCthey should never let someone that hasn't bought the item from them review somethingMay 21 00:49
DaemonFCcourse Amazon pushes extra units and makes moneyMay 21 00:50
DaemonFCso they benefit from the astroturf tooMay 21 00:50
Balrog_apple changed the app store a while ago so only purchasers can reviewMay 21 00:50
Balrog_before that, non-zero-cost apps were getting bad reviewsMay 21 00:50
schestowitzThat's a good idea if properly made trackableMay 21 00:51
DaemonFCI have a Linksys WRT54G with DD-WRT firmwareMay 21 00:51
schestowitzThere was a time when MATLAB Central got spammed or gamed by ratingsMay 21 00:51
DaemonFCI like dd-wrt, it's much less buggy than the stuff that comes with the routerMay 21 00:52
schestowitzMaureen O'Gara spins Ubuntu's new product as a MS knockoffMay 21 00:52
schestowitzTypical Gah!raMay 21 00:52
Balrog_schestowitz: that's stupidMay 21 00:53
schestowitzDell punts germ-free netbook for school kids < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/19/dell_latitude_2100/ >May 21 00:54
DaemonFCHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!May 21 00:54
schestowitzLots of things are similarMay 21 00:54
DaemonFChttp://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-02-01May 21 00:54
schestowitzFinding a "first" of something is hardMay 21 00:54
DaemonFCthis is greatMay 21 00:54
schestowitzPeople fight silly fights with patents and attrib. disputesMay 21 00:54
Balrog_heh .. windows for $30May 21 00:54
schestowitzSo expensive?May 21 00:54
schestowitzNot -$5May 21 00:54
Balrog_(on top of the netbook)May 21 00:54
Balrog_"The Latitude 2100 begins at $369 loaded with the Ubuntu Linux 8.10 operating system or with Windows XP Home Edition for $30 more."May 21 00:55
schestowitzSlow news day today..May 21 00:56
Balrog_yeah :/May 21 00:56
DaemonFCThey'd have to knock $30 off for inconveniencing me to have to format XP offMay 21 00:57
DaemonFC:PMay 21 00:57
Balrog_DaemonFC: then buy the Ubuntu versionMay 21 00:57
Balrog_it probably has better hardwareMay 21 00:58
Balrog_I found that dell netbooks with XP have crippled hardware compared to those with UbuntuMay 21 00:58
schestowitzClimate Lobbying Heats Up < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8377 > liars for hire.May 21 00:58
DaemonFCno, they usually throw more RAM or a bigger hard drive inMay 21 00:58
DaemonFCif you buy WindowsMay 21 00:58
DaemonFCand usually they're the same priceMay 21 00:58
Balrog_Dell says 'licensing restrictions to comply with UMPC'May 21 00:58
Balrog_go to the dell mini 9 configuration pageMay 21 00:58
DaemonFCthat's likely why they sell more with WindowsMay 21 00:58
schestowitzPsychotic Marketing for an Antipsychotic Drug < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8378 >May 21 00:59
DaemonFCright, Dell usually doubles the RAM and hard drive for free on the XP modelMay 21 00:59
Balrog_and try configuring one with windows with more than like 1GB of ram and a 16GB diskMay 21 00:59
Balrog_DaemonFC: not so here, last time I lookedMay 21 00:59
DaemonFCDell fucks their Linux systems up so badMay 21 00:59
DaemonFCit's no wonder they're not selling wellMay 21 00:59
DaemonFCYou get a better deal to buy the Windows version with better hardware for the same priceMay 21 01:00
DaemonFCand format it off if you don't want itMay 21 01:00
Balrog_really?May 21 01:00
DaemonFCyeahMay 21 01:00
DaemonFCreallyMay 21 01:00
Balrog_TRY configuring a Dell Mini 9 with windows with better hardwareMay 21 01:00
Balrog_I can'tMay 21 01:00
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Balrog_the linux one is $16 cheaper tooMay 21 01:00
DaemonFCeasyMay 21 01:01
Balrog_with the same hardwareMay 21 01:01
schestowitzRed Hat's case against SCO put on hold < http://news.cnet.com/2100-7344_3-5186249.html > (old)May 21 01:01
DaemonFC$20 more gets you an 8 gig SSDMay 21 01:01
DaemonFCinstead of the 4 gig oneMay 21 01:01
DaemonFCwith LinuxMay 21 01:01
DaemonFCthat's a big upgradeMay 21 01:01
DaemonFClook a little closerMay 21 01:01
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Balrog_http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?cs=19&s=dhs&ref=homepgMay 21 01:01
DaemonFCyou're not understanding meMay 21 01:01
DaemonFCuggghMay 21 01:01
Balrog_I was clicking on the second sectionMay 21 01:01
Balrog_the last one is a 3G model, not fit for meMay 21 01:02
schestowitzhttp://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/954_signs.jpgMay 21 01:02
DaemonFChttp://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5333/15866426.pngMay 21 01:04
DaemonFCBalrog_ Tell me you don't understand why you get FUCKED with the Linux systemMay 21 01:04
Balrog_what DO you mean?May 21 01:04
DaemonFCdo you know how expensive that 8 gig SSD is?May 21 01:04
DaemonFCa lot more than the $20May 21 01:04
DaemonFCI'll tell you that muchMay 21 01:04
schestowitzhttp://www.wired.com/cars/energy/multimedia/2009/05/gallery_ev (VW Owner Shifts Gears, Goes From Gas to Electric)May 21 01:04
DaemonFCyou're basically getting like a $300 upgradeMay 21 01:05
DaemonFCfor $20May 21 01:05
DaemonFCif you choose WindowsMay 21 01:05
Balrog_not reallyMay 21 01:05
Balrog_8GB ssd is $20 - $40May 21 01:05
Balrog_or you're still in late 2007 or early 2008May 21 01:05
Balrog_you can get a fast 64GB ssd for a little more than $300May 21 01:06
schestowitzDaimler Takes 10 Percent Stake in Tesla http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/05/daimler-tesla/ They are both F*edMay 21 01:06
Balrog_(well maybe 400 ... but 32GB is well under 300)May 21 01:06
DaemonFCOK I failMay 21 01:07
DaemonFCbut stillMay 21 01:07
DaemonFCit's worth more than the extra $20May 21 01:07
DaemonFCand that's my pointMay 21 01:07
Balrog_yes. but the $20 is the *price difference*May 21 01:07
Balrog_not the full cost of the 8GBMay 21 01:07
Balrog_it's (price of 8GB) - (price of 4GB)May 21 01:08
Balrog_see <http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22011136-Dell-Mini-9-memory>May 21 01:08
Balrog_"The [memory] limitation comes from the terms of issuing the UMPC XP license. It's the same reason why you'll only find netbooks with 160 GB or less disk space."May 21 01:08
DaemonFCrightMay 21 01:08
DaemonFCbut you're still money aheadMay 21 01:08
DaemonFCby buying the Windows XP systemMay 21 01:09
DaemonFCand jsut formatting itMay 21 01:09
Balrog_how exactly?May 21 01:09
DaemonFCwhat is the price difference of just the drives?May 21 01:09
Balrog_the one that says 'best value' has a 'customize with ubuntu' button below itMay 21 01:09
oiaohmschestowitz:  SirSane claim there is no documentation I can find to back it up.   But I did find a pack of scum bags on the site thathad the idea that a ddos attack was fine including one of the moderators.May 21 01:09
Balrog_windows is $299, ubuntu is $284May 21 01:09
Balrog_same exact hardwareMay 21 01:10
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DaemonFCI've seen some pretty cripple Linux v. Windows systemsMay 21 01:10
DaemonFCI saw one where the Linux model had 512 megs RAM, 4 gig HD, no wifi, Windows XP had 1 gig RAM, 10 gig hard drive, and wifiMay 21 01:10
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DaemonFCboth the same priceMay 21 01:11
Balrog_maybe. not so with this mini 9, it seemsMay 21 01:11
DaemonFCthey cripple a lot of these thingsMay 21 01:11
DaemonFCor ship them with some backwater Linux distro nobody has ever heard ofMay 21 01:11
oiaohmMost linux systems operate quite well in 512 megs of ram.May 21 01:11
DaemonFCwho cares?May 21 01:11
DaemonFCbetter hardware same price, format XP offMay 21 01:12
DaemonFCproblem solvedMay 21 01:12
oiaohmFor Linux that is not crippled.May 21 01:12
DaemonFC*cough* better hardwareMay 21 01:12
DaemonFCsame priceMay 21 01:12
Balrog_DaemonFC: that way MS still gets my moneyMay 21 01:12
DaemonFCwith me so far?May 21 01:12
DaemonFCformat XPMay 21 01:12
oiaohmThe smaller harddrive is more of issue.May 21 01:12
Balrog_and not same price, but $16 moreMay 21 01:12
Balrog_oiaohm: did you *really* look at the page?May 21 01:12
DaemonFCMicrosoft isn't gettign any money on theseMay 21 01:12
DaemonFCyou say that $50 off thingMay 21 01:12
DaemonFCthe difference in the drives is about $10May 21 01:13
DaemonFCI looked it upMay 21 01:13
DaemonFCthat leaves $10May 21 01:13
DaemonFCfor the copy of XPMay 21 01:13
schestowitzhttp://www.tuxmachines.org/node/36717May 21 01:13
Balrog_<http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?cs=19&s=dhs&ref=homepg> ... 'best value' column ... click on "customize with XP" and "customize with Ubuntu"May 21 01:13
DaemonFCand that's really on the high end of what I've seen them go forMay 21 01:13
Balrog_same exact hardware, $16 price differenceMay 21 01:13
DaemonFCnow you take that $10May 21 01:13
Balrog_ignore the first, third, and fourth columnsMay 21 01:13
DaemonFCand subtract the office trialMay 21 01:13
DaemonFCand Microsoft paid $15 to have them put XP onMay 21 01:13
Balrog_<http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dndwxa2&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=productdetails~laptop-inspiron-9> and <http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DNDWXA4&s=dhs>May 21 01:14
Balrog_I don't think they pay MS for trial officeMay 21 01:14
DaemonFCno, MS pays themMay 21 01:15
DaemonFChmmm, maybe in another three years the SSD will be a viable drop in hard drive replacementMay 21 01:15
DaemonFCwould be niceMay 21 01:16
DaemonFCwould be a lot fasterMay 21 01:16
oiaohmMS had the idea that they could crush Linux out of existance by under cutting.May 21 01:16
schestowitzearnings down 32% at MSMay 21 01:16
oiaohmMight work short time but you cannot do that for ever.May 21 01:16
DaemonFCwell, if Microsoft subsidizes better hardware cause Windows is too fat to run on the same specs as LinuxMay 21 01:17
oiaohmLinux companies are setting up to hit the small business server business next.May 21 01:17
DaemonFCthen hell yeah I'll take it with XPMay 21 01:17
DaemonFCnothing a good format can't fix :PMay 21 01:17
DaemonFCso I can kind of see why Windows would sell betterMay 21 01:18
DaemonFCMicrosoft ended up eventually giving me free XBOX shitMay 21 01:18
DaemonFCjust to stop talking about how I got fucked by their billing departmentMay 21 01:19
DaemonFCI took it and kept talkingMay 21 01:19
DaemonFC:PMay 21 01:19
DaemonFCnever look a gift horse in the mouth :)May 21 01:19
oiaohmI got free Xbox shit when I did not have a XboxMay 21 01:19
oiaohmOf coruse it got ebayed.May 21 01:19
DaemonFCI liked the original XBOXMay 21 01:20
DaemonFCI really hate the 360 thoughMay 21 01:20
DaemonFCmy opinion of Microsoft used to be a lot higherMay 21 01:20
DaemonFCbecause they used to have better stuffMay 21 01:20
oiaohmMy opinion of MS has never been that high.May 21 01:20
DaemonFCit's amazing what a few years can doMay 21 01:21
DaemonFC:PMay 21 01:21
oiaohmRemember I have reported many secuirty flaws to MS.May 21 01:21
oiaohmAnd had no action on them for years.May 21 01:21
DaemonFCWindows 2000 and XBOX original, I was drinking the Kool AidMay 21 01:21
oiaohmOne thing apple and linux do well.May 21 01:21
DaemonFCnow with XP that went awayMay 21 01:21
oiaohmRespond to secuiry reports.May 21 01:22
DaemonFCand I'm really apathetic to Vista and hate the XBOX 360May 21 01:22
DaemonFCthey've been axing support for XPMay 21 01:22
DaemonFCbut they're being subtle about itMay 21 01:22
DaemonFCI mean like all of a sudden applications of theirs refuse to install and spit out fake error messagesMay 21 01:23
DaemonFCMicrosoft has a history of sabatoging older versions of their operating systemsMay 21 01:23
DaemonFCsometimes by introducing bugsMay 21 01:23
DaemonFCthey sabotaged Windows 95 with a memory leaking common controls dll that shipped with IE 5May 21 01:24
DaemonFCfor exampleMay 21 01:24
DaemonFCso eventually if they can't get people off XP, they'll start slipping it some poison pills and it'll start running slow and fucking up for no reasonMay 21 01:25
DaemonFCand people will just think it's cause XP is old and senileMay 21 01:25
oiaohmThey already have.May 21 01:25
schestowitzhttp://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2009/05/lundork.html Beebe Attacks PJ... (just a warning)May 21 01:25
DaemonFCI heard that term a lot on the Linux Haters blogMay 21 01:26
oiaohmWindows XP is designed to loss performance the longer its installed.May 21 01:26
DaemonFCwas that guy for real?May 21 01:26
DaemonFC:PMay 21 01:26
DaemonFCoiaohm: It's not designed that wayMay 21 01:27
DaemonFCit's jsut what Windows doesMay 21 01:27
oiaohmMS slipped the poison pill in at the start.May 21 01:27
oiaohmIts leaving out registry defraging and cleaning and a few other things.May 21 01:27
DaemonFCa fresh copy of Windows has always been faster than one that's been beaten up for a year or twoMay 21 01:27
DaemonFCobviouslyMay 21 01:27
schestowitzhttp://marilyn.frields.org:8080/~paul/wordpress/?p=1649May 21 01:27
oiaohmNot really.May 21 01:27
DaemonFCregistry optimizers are dangerousMay 21 01:28
oiaohmLeaving out features to keep os clean makes it that way.May 21 01:28
oiaohmregesitry does have acls and other things that it could track what is using what reg keys.May 21 01:28
DaemonFCremoving 10,000 registry keys won't speed up Windows at allMay 21 01:28
DaemonFCbut removing 1 wrong oneMay 21 01:28
DaemonFCwill cause it to never boot againMay 21 01:29
oiaohmRegistry getting fragmented on disk.May 21 01:29
DaemonFCand you have Linux developers wanting a registry on LinuxMay 21 01:29
oiaohmAnd fragmented internally does cause slowdown.May 21 01:29
DaemonFClmaoMay 21 01:29
DaemonFChave fun with thatMay 21 01:29
DaemonFCMicrosoft should have restricted registry access to Windows components onlyMay 21 01:30
oiaohmReally a registry is a form of filesystem.May 21 01:30
DaemonFCand made everything else keep using ini filesMay 21 01:30
oiaohmBadly run filesystem.May 21 01:30
DaemonFCThe registry caused about 100 reliability problems with WindowsMay 21 01:31
oiaohmIts design dates from fat filesystem.May 21 01:31
DaemonFCand removes one superficial eyesoreMay 21 01:31
DaemonFClots of ini filesMay 21 01:31
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oiaohmSo what else should we expect.May 21 01:31
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DaemonFCregistry was designed with FAT or HPFS in mindMay 21 01:32
DaemonFCHPFS was replaced totally by NTFS by Windows NT 4.0May 21 01:32
oiaohmpagedefrag that defrags the disk blocks of the registry does cause a speed up.May 21 01:32
oiaohmFunny enough normal windows defrag still will not defrag the registry.May 21 01:33
oiaohmThere are other small sections like that spreed threw out windows.May 21 01:33
oiaohmAll lead to progressive slow downs.May 21 01:33
DaemonFChttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bb/Registration_Editor.pngMay 21 01:34
oiaohmLike more and more directories getting added to c:\windows with updates.   Slowing down dependancy searches.May 21 01:34
DaemonFChttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Registry_Editor_Vista.pngMay 21 01:34
DaemonFC:PMay 21 01:34
oiaohmXP has its designed in poison pills.May 21 01:34
oiaohmEach is slow acting so user will not notice it cause.May 21 01:35
oiaohmCross bind to IE and Explorer is another good one.  So as IE gets filled up with crap overall performance of the OS drops.May 21 01:37
oiaohmSince explorer provides information to open and save windows.May 21 01:38
oiaohmIf you look you will find there is a lot of toxin laced in XP.May 21 01:40
oiaohmI forgot the best DaemonFC XP poor handling of anything with more than 2 cpu cores.May 21 01:42
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DaemonFCI've actualyl found that Vista in some cases performs better than XP just because XP is too damned old for the hardwareMay 21 01:44
DaemonFCtheir SMP driver is not optimized for dual core CPUsMay 21 01:44
schestowitz2nd UPDATE:Monster To Pay $2.5M To Settle SEC Backdating Case http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090518-710940.htmlMay 21 01:46
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oiaohmYes XP has adverage handling of 2.   DaemonFC thinking dual processor systems predate XP by a long way main reason XP does not support is an another artifical limit MS appled to market.May 21 01:54
oiaohmI remember 9x where it would not install with 1 gb of ram installed.May 21 01:55
DaemonFCI've had a dual socket motherboardMay 21 01:55
DaemonFCdual Pentium 3sMay 21 01:55
DaemonFCrunning Windows 2000May 21 01:55
DaemonFCthat box kicked some ass for late 1999May 21 01:55
DaemonFC:DMay 21 01:55
oiaohmYep Windows 2000 could run it will.May 21 01:55
oiaohmMs basically crippled it in XP.May 21 01:56
oiaohmPoisoned from the start.May 21 01:56
DaemonFCI ran my own website AND a OpenNap serverMay 21 01:56
DaemonFCand Windows 2000 didn't flinchMay 21 01:56
oiaohmJust think that 2000 and XP are releated.May 21 01:56
DaemonFCyeah, it's scaryMay 21 01:57
oiaohmDo you now see what I see.  XP was poisoned off the start line.May 21 01:57
oiaohmJust no one noticed.May 21 01:57
DaemonFCyou notice Windows 2003 doesn't enable all the dangerous and unprofessional crapMay 21 01:57
DaemonFCby defaultMay 21 01:57
DaemonFCit has XP themes but they are disabled by defaultMay 21 01:57
oiaohmWGA could be the greatest posioning of all.May 21 01:57
DaemonFCmeh, a lot of sites still host on Windows 2000May 21 01:58
DaemonFCjust because Windows 2003 and 2008 are so bloatedMay 21 01:58
oiaohmNo WGA on 2000May 21 01:58
DaemonFCthat tooMay 21 01:58
oiaohmSo it don't play up either.May 21 01:58
DaemonFCor activationMay 21 01:58
oiaohmMS is abusive to there end users.May 21 01:58
oiaohmYet there end users put up with it.May 21 01:58
DaemonFCyeah Windows 2000 was the last version of Windows you could build a server on and not have me laugh at you :)May 21 01:59
oiaohmI guess you have seen the MS key server setup.  Its kinda insane.May 21 02:00
DaemonFCfunny how companies have something really good and just turn it to crap and piss all over their customersMay 21 02:00
DaemonFCovernightMay 21 02:00
oiaohmEvery machine other than key server is only active for 180 days without connecting to the key server.May 21 02:00
DaemonFCyeahMay 21 02:00
DaemonFCyou can set up a fake keyserverMay 21 02:00
DaemonFCin a virtual machineMay 21 02:00
oiaohmMicrosoft was never was a good company.May 21 02:01
DaemonFCand reauthorize your other machines every 180 daysMay 21 02:01
oiaohmMicrosoft starting out said pirating software was good.May 21 02:01
DaemonFCthere's also a lot of fake activation serversMay 21 02:01
DaemonFCmostly in ChinaMay 21 02:01
oiaohmNow they say the other way now they are top of pack.May 21 02:01
DaemonFCyou can set it to use one of themMay 21 02:01
DaemonFCMicrosoft and MetallicaMay 21 02:02
DaemonFCloved piracy while it made them famousMay 21 02:02
DaemonFCthen did a 180May 21 02:02
DaemonFC:)May 21 02:02
oiaohmThe piracy also destroyed MS competition.May 21 02:02
oiaohmBy cutting of there income.May 21 02:03
DaemonFCMetallica used to encourage people to pirate their songsMay 21 02:03
DaemonFCcause it was making them popularMay 21 02:03
DaemonFConce they got rich and had a huge fanbase, they turned on the "pirates" that got them thereMay 21 02:03
oiaohmThere is evil.May 21 02:03
DaemonFCmmhm, first you view it as advertisingMay 21 02:04
DaemonFCthen when you have no new markets to tap, you try to sink your teeth into the "pirates"May 21 02:04
oiaohmFunny enough ganster rappers still do it today with boot leg copies.May 21 02:05
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oiaohmI also suspect all the recent releases of windows software on TPB are the same old stunt.May 21 02:06
_Hicham_Hi oiaohmMay 21 02:07
oiaohmHi _Hicham_May 21 02:07
_Hicham_do u support the piratebay?May 21 02:07
oiaohmNoMay 21 02:08
oiaohmSuppring how many viruses and other crap ships through there system.May 21 02:08
oiaohmAlso aquiring music and other items that way will never get people freedom.May 21 02:09
_Hicham_it is helping Windows in factMay 21 02:10
_Hicham_that is how Windows locked the market in factMay 21 02:10
_Hicham_get a pirated version you are student, buy it when you are employedMay 21 02:10
_Hicham_and you are fuckedMay 21 02:10
oiaohmExactly The Pirate Bay talking about giving people freedom but they are really taking it away.May 21 02:10
oiaohmFreedom it steal is not freedom.May 21 02:11
oiaohmFreedom to steal is not freedom <<corrected typo.May 21 02:11
oiaohmIts the bit they don't get.May 21 02:11
_Hicham_I have seen that Fedora 11 have been delayedMay 21 02:12
oiaohmIf I gave you a free pass for 1 day to take what ever you could from a supermarket because some of the items were posioned and I did not know what ones or how to detect the posion would you take it.May 21 02:13
_Hicham_I am googling to know whyMay 21 02:13
oiaohmThat is exactly what The Pirate Bay is.May 21 02:13
_Hicham_I stopped downloading pirated software forMay 21 02:14
_Hicham_the last one was MATLAB for LinuxMay 21 02:14
oiaohmPirate bay really does not sound that good when you think what it really is.May 21 02:15
oiaohmProjects like creative commons trying to create more truly free and legal content is the true path to freedom.May 21 02:16
neonflossI agree and disagreeMay 21 02:17
_Hicham_It was useful for meMay 21 02:17
neonflossI dont pirate software because I look for alternativeMay 21 02:17
neonflosssMay 21 02:17
neonflossI search for creative commons musicMay 21 02:17
_Hicham_How could I have MATLAB for Linux without it?May 21 02:17
DaemonFCI support the pirate bayMay 21 02:18
neonflossbut I do support downloading other music etc, not because it is my ideal method of getting stuff, but because there isnt a better alternativeMay 21 02:18
DaemonFCjust for the fact that the BSA, RIAA, and MPAA are the real thievesMay 21 02:18
oiaohmSupporting 1 evil to kill another is not a solution DaemonFCMay 21 02:19
oiaohmIts called criminal justification.May 21 02:19
neonflossoiaohm, lots of the stuff I download I really cant get anywhere elseMay 21 02:19
neonflossobscure music that im interested to check out once that would cost around 40 dollars to shipMay 21 02:20
oiaohmThere is a circle.May 21 02:20
neonflossname one online music store that provides lossless audioMay 21 02:20
oiaohmGood old chicken and egg.May 21 02:20
_Hicham_piratebay must stayMay 21 02:20
neonflossoiaohm, I am actively supporting creative commons artists by listening, attending concerts, sharing, and donatingMay 21 02:21
neonflossthe riaa has made some bad choices - they have not provided a good 'legal' way to get musicMay 21 02:21
oiaohmhttp://www.magnatune.com/  << neonflossMay 21 02:22
oiaohmThis is part of the problem.May 21 02:22
neonflosswhats magnatune?May 21 02:22
oiaohmSupporting piratebay also means people don't find everything that is out there.May 21 02:22
oiaohmA online line music store neonflossMay 21 02:23
neonflossoiaohm, I spend on average 1 hour a day searching for creative commons stuffMay 21 02:23
oiaohmYou said name 1.May 21 02:23
neonflosssorry - let me rephrase thatMay 21 02:23
neonflossI wasnt clearMay 21 02:23
oiaohmIf I dig threw list I can name 8 that provide losses audio.May 21 02:23
neonflossname 1 onlince music store that provides lossless music from riaa represented artistsMay 21 02:24
neonflossoiaohm, I realize that the solution is supporting these forward thinking artists, and thats what im doing - but there are artists, that I like, that arent available from these types of placesMay 21 02:25
neonflossnew topic - I have an application that is dependant on sse2, but my processor doesnt have sse2 support - any way I can run it?May 21 02:27
oiaohmAsk yourself a little question.   If market stopped listerning to riaa artists they would also stop turning up to there events so would become unprofitable.May 21 02:28
oiaohmWhy would artists stay with them.May 21 02:28
oiaohmPeople voting with there feet is massively powerful.May 21 02:29
neonflossI agreeMay 21 02:30
oiaohmmegnature and others like it power to aquire music from artists is dependant on demard.May 21 02:30
oiaohmThe pirate bay is sucking demard away from them.May 21 02:31
neonflossoiaohm, its not pirate bay's fault - its society'sMay 21 02:32
neonflossif tpb wasnt there, there would be another siteMay 21 02:32
oiaohmI don't have to support anything that comes from societies defects.May 21 02:32
neonflossdo you have a car?May 21 02:33
oiaohmWord don't have to.  Car is something I have chosen to have.May 21 02:33
oiaohmAlso really a requirement.  Lot of my work requires 100 km round trips that are quick.   Server failure cannot be left that way.May 21 02:34
DaemonFCyeah, you've never seen the lack of urban planning turned sprawlMay 21 02:35
DaemonFCthat comprises most American citiesMay 21 02:35
DaemonFCand no public transportation eitherMay 21 02:35
DaemonFCit's ridiculousMay 21 02:35
neonflossoiaohm, the interesting thing is though, that percentage wise, 'pirates' listen to a lot more creative commons music than those that dont 'pirate'May 21 02:35
DaemonFCif you don't have a car, you can end up walking 3 miles to get something to eatMay 21 02:35
oiaohmI will walk 3 miles for food.May 21 02:36
neonflossaround 95% of my friends that dont 'pirate' had never heard of creative commonsMay 21 02:36
neonflossa lot more of those that do, had heardMay 21 02:36
oiaohmProblem here pirates also don't talk about what they do.May 21 02:37
oiaohmGetting the numbers aware of creative commons up in normal law following would long term be more effective.May 21 02:38
neonflossofcMay 21 02:39
oiaohmPiracy is not a magic cure.   If anything them mixing with creative commons can cause some law following not to touch it.May 21 02:39
oiaohmThe negitive side is under estermated.May 21 02:40
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neonflosspiracy is not a cure of course, but a natural response by the public to the innapropriate intellectual property legislationMay 21 02:40
oiaohmPiracy is a trap.May 21 02:40
neonflossI agreeMay 21 02:40
oiaohmBy taking part as a pirate you become a criminal.May 21 02:41
neonflossoiaohm, whats the definition of 'pirate' ?May 21 02:41
oiaohmSo you can no longer effectively protest agaist the legislation.May 21 02:41
oiaohmSoftware theifs get called pirates becuase its having the same effect.May 21 02:42
neonflosswhat is 'pirate'May 21 02:42
oiaohmPirates of the sea did not get to set the rules of the sea.May 21 02:42
neonflossI define pirate as one who supports similar goals as the swedish pirate party - "The Pirate Party wants to fundamentally reform copyright law, get rid of the patent system, and ensure that citizens' rights to privacy are respected"May 21 02:42
oiaohmPirate is linked threw out history to thiefs of some form.May 21 02:43
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oiaohmWho end up not being effective due to being jailable or killable.May 21 02:44
_boo_no wayMay 21 02:44
_boo_pirates are robbersMay 21 02:44
zorphthat is one definitionMay 21 02:44
zorphbut I use 'pirate' as the otherMay 21 02:44
_boo_did you ever read any book about pirates?May 21 02:44
oiaohmNot a true form.May 21 02:44
oiaohmzorph:May 21 02:44
_boo_captain blood?May 21 02:45
oiaohmSome people threw out history were forced to become pirates to stay alive.May 21 02:45
oiaohmThis is different to the moderday people called pirates.May 21 02:45
_boo_geoffrey de peirakMay 21 02:45
zorphoiaohm, are you saying that the definition of pirate is not a person who wants to fundamentally reform copyright law, get rid of the patent system, and ensure that citizens' rights to privacy are respectedMay 21 02:45
_boo_from angelicaMay 21 02:45
zorph?May 21 02:45
oiaohmCorrect zorphMay 21 02:46
_boo_pirates don't want law to be changed...May 21 02:46
oiaohmPirates threw out history some had high ideals.May 21 02:46
_boo_oh no... they want themselves to be legalizedMay 21 02:46
oiaohmMost of the time ended up damaging other peoples rights.May 21 02:46
zorphin my opinion a person can be a pirate by my definition and have never infringed copyrightMay 21 02:46
oiaohmNoMay 21 02:46
oiaohmA person is not a pirate then.May 21 02:47
oiaohmA person who as never infringed is a person after reform.May 21 02:47
oiaohmSomethings given names as liberationalist.May 21 02:47
_boo_the thing is that people become pirates due to lawMay 21 02:47
oiaohmA person who seeks to give people freedom.May 21 02:47
_boo_yupMay 21 02:48
_boo_but it's lie about piratesMay 21 02:48
_boo_there are pirates nowadays but only in the seaMay 21 02:48
zorphdo you support the ideals of the  pirate party oiaohm ?May 21 02:48
_boo_and there are no pirates in the internetMay 21 02:49
_boo_patent and copyright owners just call them piratesMay 21 02:49
_boo_because they want toMay 21 02:49
_boo_and it's a damn lieMay 21 02:49
oiaohmThe ideals are wrong zorph.  If you destory copyright you also destroy linux.May 21 02:50
oiaohmAny alteration to copyright has to be done with extream care.May 21 02:51
zorphoiaohm, it doesnt want to destroy copyrightMay 21 02:51
zorphit wants to reform itMay 21 02:51
oiaohmThere reforms could destroy Linux's copyleaf from operationing.May 21 02:51
zorphoiaohm, is copyright as it stands good in you opinion?May 21 02:51
oiaohmCopyright is one of those evils.   I don't like how it is but I know without it things would be worse.May 21 02:52
_boo_in my opinion patents are world evil as they are now, and copyrights are to be way reformedMay 21 02:52
oiaohmProblem is everywhere copyright is different.May 21 02:52
oiaohmLinux copyleaf depends on the power to enforce copyright to cause source code to be shared.May 21 02:53
zorphwithout it*** ofc we need copyrightMay 21 02:53
*twitter (i=willhill@97-113-223-251.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovellMay 21 02:53
zorphbut it needs to be reformedMay 21 02:53
oiaohmSome of there reforms threat the copyleafs power to do that.May 21 02:53
zorphsome of whos reforms?May 21 02:54
oiaohmPatents there is almost no good reason for them.May 21 02:54
oiaohmThe ones the pirate party have described zorph.May 21 02:54
oiaohmRights to remix stuff under mine gpl copyleaf.May 21 02:55
oiaohmHas to be done with extream care or the end result will be a complete disaster.May 21 02:56
zorphoiaohm, telling people that they shouldnt listen to all the music they listen to is not a good way to win them over to creative commons - purism doesnt work the bestMay 21 02:56
twitterstraw man zorphMay 21 02:57
twitterno one does thatMay 21 02:57
oiaohmI buy some of my songs I use creative commons for the others.May 21 02:57
twittertelling people the RIAA might steal their house and life savings for sharing with their neighbors is what people doMay 21 02:57
zorphtwitter, oiaohm says that people shouldnt listen to riaa artists, shouldnt pirate their work, or shouldny buy itMay 21 02:58
zorphoiaohm, I buy songs too - just not riaa labelsMay 21 02:58
twittereveryone has to make their own decisionsMay 21 02:58
oiaohmI don't touch anything from the riaa either.May 21 02:58
twittergiving money to the RIAA is a bad ideaMay 21 02:58
zorphyesMay 21 02:58
zorphbut pirateing their work is tooMay 21 02:58
twittersharing is goodMay 21 02:58
zorphbut listeing is what you wantMay 21 02:59
oiaohmPirating riaa music is also bad.May 21 02:59
zorphwhat should you do?May 21 02:59
zorphnot listen?May 21 02:59
twitterhave a public libraryMay 21 02:59
twitterwhere people can shareMay 21 02:59
zorphyesMay 21 02:59
oiaohmtwitter just said a legal pathMay 21 02:59
zorphbut imo p2p has done what libraries wanted to doMay 21 02:59
oiaohmAround problem.May 21 02:59
twitterP2P is a form of public libraryMay 21 03:00
zorphoiaohm, its not - libraries buy from riaaMay 21 03:00
oiaohmP2P is not.May 21 03:00
zorphso thats not good eitherMay 21 03:00
oiaohmpublic library there are limited copies.May 21 03:00
zorphand what good does limited copies do?May 21 03:00
twitterP2P has created the greatest public sharing known to man.  Why limit what is good?May 21 03:00
twitterIt might not be legal, but it is the right thing to do.May 21 03:01
twitterThe law must be changed for the public good.May 21 03:01
oiaohmIt comes down to the simple fact.  Less people who support the problem.May 21 03:01
oiaohmLess power the problem has.May 21 03:01
oiaohmartists don't just make there money from sales of songs.May 21 03:01
twitterIn the mean time, each person must be informed and make their own decisions.May 21 03:01
oiaohmPeople turnning up to concerts and buying other items are incomes.May 21 03:02
twitterRIAA music only has historic value now.May 21 03:02
oiaohmYes RIAA does take a cut out of that too.May 21 03:02
twitterCulture has liberated itself, despite a great deal of interference by the RIAA.May 21 03:02
twitterand so big publishers fail.May 21 03:03
zorphoiaohm, so you want to oppose the artists, who just happen to be outdated?May 21 03:03
twitterMusicians prosper.May 21 03:03
twitterEveryone but publishers gain from freedom.May 21 03:03
oiaohmArtists do get out of contracts where its not profitable.May 21 03:03
zorphoiaohm, what about pirateing music from artists that have been dead for 20 years? the artists had no choice to support CCMay 21 03:03
oiaohmAgain it stops you from prostesting to get copyright returned to 25 years where it started out.May 21 03:04
twitterSharing is not equivalent to murder on the high seas, you should not use the propaganda term "pirate"May 21 03:04
oiaohmYou are doing actions that block your voice zorphMay 21 03:05
oiaohmRemember copy right lifespan is now upto 70 years after death of artist.May 21 03:06
zorphyesMay 21 03:06
_boo_and it makes no senseMay 21 03:06
twitterEveryone has to make up their own mind about sharing.May 21 03:06
oiaohmYou cannot fight if you get your hands tied up.May 21 03:06
twitterbut the sudden outbreak of common sense is closeMay 21 03:06
oiaohmIf everyone prostested for better laws what option would the goverment have.May 21 03:07
oiaohmIf none of those people were guilty.May 21 03:07
_boo_lolMay 21 03:07
_boo_government will just suppress the protestsMay 21 03:07
zorphoiaohm, but the laws will not be changed in the next 4 years likely - so you want me to cut myself off from the past. doing this would not let me build upon that art and would harm the progress of musicMay 21 03:08
oiaohmBeing gulity makes protest suppressable.May 21 03:08
_boo_and won't care any furtherMay 21 03:08
twitterif everyone believes in sharing, the law will follow.May 21 03:08
Grommetopenmoney woooooMay 21 03:08
twitteras surely as the Berlin wall fell, copyright will die.May 21 03:08
zorphtwitter, copyright shouldnt dieMay 21 03:09
zorphit should be reformedMay 21 03:09
zorphwithout it artists would sufferMay 21 03:09
zorphjust as they do nowMay 21 03:09
oiaohmanti-trust actions should also be request by public against the riaa.May 21 03:09
oiaohmAnd others.May 21 03:09
twitterArtists did just fine for most of history.May 21 03:10
oiaohmthis is part of the problem.  Most people who are upset by it.May 21 03:10
oiaohmHave tied there hands by breaking law.May 21 03:10
zorphoiaohm, in canada law experts say that downloading this all rights reserved music is not illegal due to the blank media levyMay 21 03:11
oiaohmAnd where does that levy go.May 21 03:11
oiaohmBasically none gets to the artists.May 21 03:12
oiaohmEveryone is paying for it including people just using the media for data.May 21 03:12
twitterSharing does not tie anyone's hands, copyright does.May 21 03:12
zorphoiaohm, I am against the levyMay 21 03:12
zorphbut its thereMay 21 03:12
oiaohmLinux existance depends on hands being restricted twitter.May 21 03:13
zorphoiaohm, why is the Free Software Foundation supporting tanenbaym in Sony BMG Music Entertainment, et al. v. Joel Tenenbaum ?May 21 03:13
oiaohmThey are after correct reforms to the laws zorph.May 21 03:14
zorphto copyright laws?May 21 03:14
twitterFree software will continue to exist in freedom as it does under copyright.May 21 03:15
zorphcopyright isnt bad - its just bad as it is nowMay 21 03:15
oiaohmtwitter: bsdMay 21 03:15
zorph<oiaohm> They are after correct reforms to the laws zorph.May 21 03:16
zorph<zorph> to copyright laws?May 21 03:16
twitterwhat about bsd?May 21 03:16
oiaohmLot of hardware for bsd OS's are not returned to bsd because there is no legal requirement.May 21 03:16
twitterno, it's because there are legal barriers to sharing.May 21 03:16
oiaohmBSD provides no legal requirement to return alterations.May 21 03:16
oiaohmNo legal requirement to share.May 21 03:16
zorphoiaohm, is the FSF after coyright reform?May 21 03:17
twitterdon't you think coders at various companies would share if they could?May 21 03:17
twitterthey don't because they can'tMay 21 03:17
twitterwithout copyright, they could and would.May 21 03:17
oiaohmHistory of BSD says lot of company will chose to keep secrects.May 21 03:17
oiaohmIf licence does not force there hands.May 21 03:17
twitterYou can not project from the non free past like that.May 21 03:18
twitterand you did not answer my questionMay 21 03:19
zorphor mineMay 21 03:19
oiaohmHistroy says that profit and market lock will come ahead of coders.   Unix based on BSD great example.May 21 03:19
oiaohmPart is ownership of work zorph.May 21 03:20
oiaohmCurrent issue with RIAA Sony and others once you do a deal with them you cannot do a deal with another one to supply the item.May 21 03:20
twitterThe FSF has many aims.  RMS has stated his many times.May 21 03:20
zorphoiaohm, so you want pirate bay and other major torrent sites to close, right?May 21 03:21
oiaohmFrom a simple virus containment point of view most of them should shut zorph.May 21 03:21
twitterI can't really speak for him, but I can say that he's said that without copyright, there would be no need for the GPL.  I don't know if he still thinks that.  Why don't you go read up at Stallman.org?May 21 03:22
zorphwhat about google? should google and all major search engines shut down? they link to tons of copyrighted content, and illegal content such as CPMay 21 03:22
oiaohmDifference google will respond to take down notices.May 21 03:22
oiaohmThat is kinda useful when a site is located with a virus.May 21 03:22
oiaohmAny that don't respond to take down notices should be shutdown just from a secuirty point of view zorph.May 21 03:23
twitterIt would be easier to shut down M$ than to outlaw sharing Ohm.May 21 03:23
zorphoiaohm, only a small amount get taken down thoughMay 21 03:23
twitterand more justMay 21 03:23
oiaohmRemember bittorrent was created as a solution to a problem.May 21 03:23
zorphyesMay 21 03:23
oiaohmIt was not sharing stuff against copyright.May 21 03:24
zorphofcMay 21 03:24
oiaohmThere were some major issues with like the downloading of the Linux kernel.May 21 03:24
oiaohmLegal content.May 21 03:24
zorphmost of my p2p traffic is not infringing coyprightMay 21 03:24
oiaohmThere is harm that comes from rules being broken.May 21 03:25
twittermost takedown notices do infringe copyrightMay 21 03:25
oiaohmVirus companies use takedown notices due to threat.May 21 03:25
twitterat least Google take downs, something like 60% are publishers trying to hose their competitorsMay 21 03:25
oiaohmSomething piratebay and others disreguard.May 21 03:26
zorphoiaohm, so you believe all open trackers should be shut down?May 21 03:26
oiaohmThere are a few trackers that do obey take downnotices.May 21 03:26
oiaohmThey do take the responablity of protecting there users.May 21 03:27
twitterI've asked M$ to take down Windows and Outlook many times.  Those dirty pirates never seem to listen to me.May 21 03:27
oiaohmYou cannot compare pirate bay to google.May 21 03:28
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oiaohmThere are other trackers that you can.May 21 03:28
zorphoiaohm, what about isohunt to google?May 21 03:28
zorphshould isohunt be closed?May 21 03:28
twitterThey still offer dysfunctional copies of Mosaic from Spyglass, hacked up copies of quick and dirty OS and other stolen crap.May 21 03:28
oiaohmYou are making the same flawed argument zorph.May 21 03:28
zorphoiaohm, should isohunt be closed?May 21 03:29
twitterno one should be kept from sharingMay 21 03:30
oiaohmIf the tracker and search works inside the rules it cannot be closed.May 21 03:30
zorphso..May 21 03:30
twitterwe should all be able to server the things we like as we like.May 21 03:30
oiaohmIts the safe harbor provision.May 21 03:30
zorphshould isohunt in you opinion be closed?May 21 03:30
oiaohmSo that sharing could not be harmed.May 21 03:30
twitternoMay 21 03:30
twitterisohunt should be allowed to index people's sharingMay 21 03:30
twitteras should anyoneMay 21 03:31
zorphoiaohm, ?May 21 03:31
oiaohmwhat is isohunt doing wrong.May 21 03:31
zorphnothingMay 21 03:31
oiaohmPirate bay was doing more than just providing links.May 21 03:31
zorphyesMay 21 03:31
twitterallowing people to share and index information will make information easy to find and obtain.  the same thing can be said of entertainment and other expressions of cultureMay 21 03:31
zorphI agreeMay 21 03:32
twitterOnly harm to people who use deeply flawed and non free softwareMay 21 03:32
zorphoiaohm, I think we should stop nowMay 21 03:32
twitterif you allow censorship, you will only censor those who would warn you of harmMay 21 03:32
zorphill end off by saying I believe supporting CC and open source is the way to goMay 21 03:33
oiaohmPirate bay decide to disguard take down notices could not stay that way.May 21 03:33
zorphbut im less of a puristMay 21 03:33
oiaohmIf you don't like a taken down notice you can legally challage it.May 21 03:33
twitteryou either believe in freedom or you don'tMay 21 03:33
zorphoiaohm, but is it possible to have takedown notices on an open tracker? not reallyMay 21 03:33
zorpherrMay 21 03:33
oiaohmAs google is starting down.May 21 03:33
zorphlet me rephraseMay 21 03:33
oiaohmIt is possiable.May 21 03:33
oiaohmIt is also possalbe to put filters on a open tracker.May 21 03:34
zorphoiaohm, open trackers do not require torrents to be authenticatedMay 21 03:34
twitterif Google fails as an indexer, others will take Google's placeMay 21 03:34
zorphbanning hashes from trackers that are open are innefficientMay 21 03:34
zorphbecause tracker must check hash each timeMay 21 03:34
twitterauthentication is a publisher's jobMay 21 03:34
oiaohmWho said it has to be effective to be in the law.May 21 03:34
zorphanywaysMay 21 03:34
twitterdistributions of free software, for example, provide md5 sumsMay 21 03:35
zorphCC and FOSS ftwMay 21 03:35
twitterpublishers build trust through performanceMay 21 03:35
oiaohmTo be correct its the distributions job to take due care.May 21 03:35
twitterWell, we can all verify the result, if it's a free distribution.May 21 03:36
oiaohmPirate bay was taking part in distribution and then tried to disreguard due care.May 21 03:36
twitterno, Pirate bay was indexing other people's sharingMay 21 03:36
twitterthere's nothing wrong with thatMay 21 03:36
zorphI agree that piracy is harming CC and open source, but to effectively get rid of piracy would infringe on freedomsMay 21 03:36
oiaohmEven indexs when request to remove stuff still have to twitter.May 21 03:37
twitterno they don'tMay 21 03:37
twitteranymore than you have to shut up when I ask you toMay 21 03:37
oiaohmThey do under many countires laws.May 21 03:37
twittershut upMay 21 03:37
zorphO_OMay 21 03:37
oiaohmAustralia is such an example a guy try to say his website that was indexing kiddy porn was not illegal because it did not host anything.May 21 03:38
oiaohmNote intentionally indexiing kiddy porn.May 21 03:38
twittersee there, he's still talking.May 21 03:39
twitterand talking about offensive subjects too.May 21 03:39
oiaohmOf course guy is in jail.May 21 03:39
twitteryou should be too!May 21 03:39
zorphgoodnight fellasMay 21 03:39
twitteryou have offended the morals of the vast majority of tyrants everywhere.May 21 03:40
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_boo_pirate bay is still aliveMay 21 03:40
twittergoodMay 21 03:40
_boo_and will be for years moreMay 21 03:40
twitteryou can not keep people from sharingMay 21 03:40
twitterit is expensive and stupid to tryMay 21 03:40
oiaohmIts also expenisve when virus out breaks are caused by it.May 21 03:41
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oiaohmThat could have been controlled with due care from runners of the indexs.May 21 03:41
oiaohmIf people want to run a index and not take due care they deserve what ever they get when they get caught.May 21 03:42
DaemonFCtwitter: aller baiser ta mèreMay 21 03:42
DaemonFC:)May 21 03:42
twitterI'm talking to my mom right now, actually.May 21 03:43
DaemonFCwell, you know what else to do thenMay 21 03:43
DaemonFC:)May 21 03:43
twitterI know what you would like to do, but I've got better manners.May 21 03:44
_boo_oiaohm, like google should stop indexing porn?May 21 03:44
twitterLike Ohm is advocating censorship because freedom hurts Windows users.May 21 03:44
_boo_lolMay 21 03:45
oiaohm_boo_: google does remove particular types of porn from there indexs.May 21 03:45
_boo_lolMay 21 03:45
oiaohmWhen its reported.May 21 03:45
_boo_oiaohm, you should be censored from the internetsMay 21 03:45
oiaohmThat is required under due care.May 21 03:45
DaemonFCanything between two consenting adults is fine with meMay 21 03:45
_boo_if google does that it also bans plenty of other sites that some government wants to be bannedMay 21 03:46
DaemonFCcause it's none of my businessMay 21 03:46
DaemonFC:PMay 21 03:46
oiaohmWhat google removes is child porn.May 21 03:46
_boo_that's what you're toldMay 21 03:46
oiaohmAnd cases where people have been raped as well.May 21 03:46
DaemonFCRussian kiddie porn no doubtMay 21 03:46
oiaohmThe idea that google does not censor somethings is a myth.May 21 03:47
_boo_but it should uncensor anythingMay 21 03:47
oiaohmMyth of absolute freedom.May 21 03:48
_boo_'cause there should be no censorship in the internetsMay 21 03:48
twitterGoogle can publish as they likeMay 21 03:48
DaemonFCno they can'tMay 21 03:48
oiaohmNever existed _boo_May 21 03:48
twitterIf they choose to remove links, that's their business.  Set up your own search engine.May 21 03:48
oiaohmInterents always have had censorship of some form.May 21 03:49
oiaohmEmail filtering came early on in internet history.   You want no censorship you also want to spam filters _boo_.May 21 03:51
oiaohmspam filters are a form of censorship.May 21 03:52
oiaohmThis is the problem there is a blance that has to be mainatained.   Between freedom and censorship.May 21 03:52
twittera history of badness does not mean that bad is good or that we have to be badMay 21 03:53
oiaohmHard part with the blance between freedom and censorship is working out exactly where the line should be.May 21 03:54
DaemonFChttp://www.ranum.com/editorials/divide-conquer/index.htmlMay 21 03:54
DaemonFCWho needs an enemy when you can divide and conquer yourself?May 21 03:54
oiaohmWe even partly censor our selfs from saying some comments to people we know.May 21 03:55
oiaohmDaemonFC: not exactly right.   Linux looks divide.   But compared to Unix's it not as divided.May 21 03:57
DaemonFC"We all know the strategem, divide and conquer, but, honestly, Microsoft didn't even need to take that initiative. They just sat back and watched free UNIX fail to become a credible threat because, well, frankly, it was in the hands of egotistical, detail-oriented amateurs."May 21 03:58
DaemonFChehMay 21 03:58
oiaohmMS did take initiative a few times.May 21 03:59
oiaohmWhen it was losing scaling to samba it had to do something.May 21 03:59
DaemonFC"Any of us who've worked with the various free-nixes out there have run across the "vanity versions" and their related politics: so-and-so won't work with so-and-so-else, let's start a whole new operating system development tree! Wow. Grow up."May 21 04:00
DaemonFCthe horrible thing is that there's some truth in thatMay 21 04:00
oiaohmBig issue here divide is simple merge has been hard.May 21 04:01
oiaohmIts more a techincal issue with the design.May 21 04:02
oiaohmGood thing here is solarias and bsd's has done a lot of rearch into allowing merging.May 21 04:05
twitterBill Gates has a GNU/Linux distro?May 21 04:08
twitter->egotistical, detail-oriented amateursMay 21 04:08
twitterOh yeah, he's ruining NovellMay 21 04:09
DaemonFChttp://www.ranum.com/editorials/software-lawsuits/May 21 04:13
DaemonFCthis is actually more amusing :)May 21 04:13
Ziggyfishtwitter,  Bill Gates's Linux distro = Window ;)May 21 04:14
DaemonFC"They paid $500,000 for this software. Once they had it more or less working, they were ready to roll it out, and decided it was time to look at security. You can probably guess what happened next:May 21 04:16
DaemonFCThere was none."May 21 04:16
DaemonFClolMay 21 04:16
twitterThat's an interesting article.  People knowingly chose second rate software because an owner stands behind it being second rate.May 21 04:18
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tessierschestowitz: Hope the server reboot earlier didn't inconvenience you. A lot of expanding and re-architecting going on lately. The good news is that I now have a dedicated server to move bn onto. I am working on migrating stuff now. I will give you heads up when I will have to shut down the db to make a copy. Then you can switch the dns to the new IP and start making your updates over there.May 21 06:59
tessierThis will let you have access to the logs, run whatever stats software you want, and will separate bn from my stuff so DOS etc won't affect me and any security problems (and bn is certainly a tempting target) won't affect my personal or corporate stuff.May 21 07:00
tessierI'll set you up with sudo on the new server so you can get root.May 21 07:00
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twitterut oh, http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124288312709842515.htmlMay 21 07:25
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schestowitztessier: thanks!May 21 08:01
schestowitzBTW, I hope Amazon gets automatic backup of mysql, just in case.May 21 08:02
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schestowitzBeebe has been harassing me a lot too. Did half a dozen post especially 'for' me...May 21 08:12
schestowitztessier: I notice that all visits are said to be coming from localhost and not the IPs of the visitors. Do you know why?May 21 08:27
schestowitzLists of Microsoft- and Gates-Hired Lobbyists in the United States of America < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/21/list-microsoft-and-gates-lobbyists/ >May 21 08:54
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the_mad_hatterEveningMay 21 09:35
the_mad_hatterRoy, could you do me a favor?May 21 09:36
the_mad_hatterPost something on this - I know it's off topic, but hey, a charity is involvedMay 21 09:37
the_mad_hatterAcer Tells Kid's Charity - Pay Up or Shut UpMay 21 09:37
the_mad_hatterhttp://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/05/acer-tells-kids-charity-pay-up-or-shut.htmlMay 21 09:37
the_mad_hatterKen could use the help.May 21 09:37
schestowitzI was going to put this in daily linksMay 21 09:37
schestowitzYes, I know KenMay 21 09:37
schestowitzWe correspondMay 21 09:37
the_mad_hatterGood. I'm going to go raise some shit somewhere else <G>May 21 09:38
the_mad_hatterActually I should probably go to bed, it's 5:00 AMMay 21 09:40
schestowitzWOT?May 21 09:41
schestowitzOh, I thought you were a BritMay 21 09:41
the_mad_hatterno, Canadian. I have a cousin on my mother's side who's a detective on the London force though, and my wife is from Stoke.May 21 09:47
the_mad_hatterI get my british tv fix (Time Team, Doctor Who, Torchwood, Midsomer Murders) from bit torrentMay 21 09:49
schestowitzAh, StokeMay 21 09:51
schestowitzNow I remember the source of confusionMay 21 09:51
schestowitzGoogle Street View Faces Scrutiny In Germany < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/20/google-street-view-faces-scrutiny-in-germany >May 21 09:52
schestowitzGoogle Street.. wait until Google Colons comes out... with full rectal examination of every person on the planet. Really, how far does this greed for information go?May 21 09:53
schestowitzLatest Report About Microsoft’s Newly-Found Affair with Software Patents (as Anti-FOSS Mechanism) < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/21/microsofts-anti-foss-mechanism/ >May 21 09:54
the_mad_hatterGoogle Colons. Think I'll pass.May 21 09:54
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20090519/1045574932.shtml "Next, they'll have to ban using the mobile web, or IM, or playing Tetris on your phone while driving, since they've left these (and plenty of other activities) out, but we digress..."May 21 09:55
schestowitzthe_mad_hatter: you can't pass. They'll sent the Google Ambulance round every person's houseMay 21 09:55
the_mad_hatterBTW, I remember a link from an article that went to a ZDNet site that had a beautiful graph of Linux market share at about 8%, do you remember it?May 21 09:56
schestowitzNow, the only issue I have though is that Microsoft is behind some of these lobbying groups about "privacy"May 21 09:56
schestowitzthe_mad_hatter: can you find that? I never saw such a thing.May 21 09:56
the_mad_hatterI know I did, and now I can't find it. It's really annoying.May 21 09:57
the_mad_hatterOh, and driving while using any electronic device that isn't hands free (GPS, Phone, etc.) is illegal hereMay 21 09:57
the_mad_hatterDid you see the post on Groklaw about patents a couple of days ago?May 21 10:00
schestowitzWhich one? I read all postsMay 21 10:01
schestowitzRe devices, hands-free or not, it's a distraction.May 21 10:01
the_mad_hatterhttp://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20090514214945549&title=Need+help+with+research+about+patents&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=756833#c757022May 21 10:02
schestowitzMost death are consequence of such accidents (bar illnesses). People should treat it as a 'blessed' activity where ALL attention should be put on driving, for the sake of those AROUND the driver at the very leastMay 21 10:02
schestowitzOne could go further and say "no radio" too, but I digress.May 21 10:02
the_mad_hatterAnd my reply:May 21 10:02
the_mad_hatterhttp://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20090514214945549&title=I+know+a+bit+about+patents&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=757022#c757245May 21 10:02
schestowitzWritten by Nick FarrellMay 21 10:02
schestowitzIs this it?May 21 10:03
schestowitzNick Farrell is trollishMay 21 10:03
the_mad_hatterAnd yes, you should watch the road. A guy I know was driving through town in a rain storm, and passed a beautiful young lady wearing a white tee shirt, and then hit a poll.May 21 10:03
the_mad_hatterno, anonymousMay 21 10:04
the_mad_hatterMy reply was to anonymous, so if you have ignore anonymous turned on you wouldn't see it.May 21 10:04
schestowitzI'm reading the comments about BNMay 21 10:06
schestowitz"Or maybe the purpose of the DOS is to make their ISP drop them." http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20090514214945549&title=Anybody+know+what+is+happening+with+the+Boycott+Novell+site%3F&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=756928#c756930May 21 10:06
schestowitzThat's exactly what they did.May 21 10:06
schestowitzWe are likely to have tessier donating spaceMay 21 10:06
the_mad_hatterAh - I was talking about the comment on Groklaw about patents.May 21 10:08
the_mad_hatterThat would be nice. (Tessier)May 21 10:09
the_mad_hatterCrap - 5:30. I gotta get some sleep. Talk to you later.May 21 10:11
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schestowitzkentma1: I'll catch up with yesterday in a moment. No news postings yesterday...May 21 10:15
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oiaohmI just caught something important.   1000 people doing a physical protest was enough to change the path of envormental policy in the USA.May 21 10:29
oiaohmSo far over copyright no one bothers setting that up.May 21 10:29
schestowitzExtension?May 21 10:32
schestowitzNot enough people are aware of the ramification, so an information campaign may be needed to inform and sway public opinion. Like national propaganda, but working in reverse -- AGAINST the cronies.May 21 10:34
oiaohmIt was the fora tv program here that does education things.   The were doing how different political changes came to be.May 21 10:34
oiaohmAction is just as important as information.May 21 10:34
oiaohmAction goverments can see.May 21 10:35
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schestowitzhttp://www.fayerwayer.com/2009/05/boycott-novell-bajo-ataque-ddos/May 21 10:44
schestowitzbrbMay 21 10:45
schestowitzDell is actually right: Most Linux users don't really need the latest version < http://www.betanews.com/article/Dell-Most-Linux-users-dont-really-need-the-latest-version/1242843704 >May 21 10:46
schestowitzoiaohm: no attacks in almost a day nowMay 21 10:47
schestowitzAll the traffic that comes to the CMS so to speak is from localhost, which is interesting.May 21 10:47
oiaohmThis is what normally happens.May 21 10:48
oiaohmWhen a ddos has turned into a failure.May 21 10:48
schestowitzWant to Send a Document to Your Kindle? 15 Cents, Please. < http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/want-to-send-a-document-to-your-kindle-15-cents-please/ > Yay. The future...May 21 10:50
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schestowitzIBM starts distributing more GNU/Linux desktops: http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-21-2009/0005030510&EDATE=May 21 10:54
tessierschestowitz: The apache logs will say from localhost, the squid logs have the real ip. This is because squid proxies to/from localhost so apache sees the connection coming from localhostMay 21 10:55
tessierI'm beat for tonight so the switch won't be tonight. But once the switch is done there will be only apache logs and they will contain the correct visitor ip addresses.May 21 10:55
schestowitztessier: that's fine :-)May 21 10:56
schestowitzThe most important thing is to serve pages to most people. The rest, stats including, are of not much interest to meMay 21 10:57
schestowitzGroklaw disabled logging altogether on the server, for performance reasons.May 21 10:57
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schestowitzTransparency loses again: Missing 1TB of Clinton White House data < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/21/lost_white_house_hard_drive/ >May 21 11:00
ushimitsudoki1I'm thinking about getting a Dell MiniMay 21 11:09
oiaohmsquid works to hold load down as well.   Personally I prefer logging in squid than appache for that reason.May 21 11:22
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schestowitzGNU/Linux is the Fastest-growing Platform http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/67114.htmlMay 21 11:27
schestowitzIBM Spreads Linux Appliances http://www.itjungle.com/bns/bns051909-story01.html May 21 11:28
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schestowitzLinux 'desktop' enters 10-billion chipset area: http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/304074/linux_2_6_30_strong_arms_into_mobile_device_supportMay 21 11:30
schestowitzThe Myth About GNU/Linux and Killer Applications is Busted http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6753/1/May 21 11:34
schestowitzThe AwesomeWM Window Managers Makes Its Case http://tuxtraining.com/2009/05/19/intro-to-awesomewmMay 21 11:36
schestowitzKDE4 Shows Some Very Exciting New Features http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3821211/ http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/05/integrate-google-gadgets-with-plasma-in.htmlMay 21 11:38
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oiaohmOthers will follow IBM lead.May 21 11:40
oiaohmGame in the small business market for servers is going to get interesting.May 21 11:41
schestowitzMusix GNU/Linux 2.0 is Near, A Look at the Distribution http://beginlinux.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/musix-to-my-ears/May 21 11:42
schestowitzoiaohm: yesMay 21 11:42
schestowitzLots of IBM todayMay 21 11:42
schestowitzServer and desktopMay 21 11:42
schestowitzBut to let Lotus (proprietary) win is no winMay 21 11:42
oiaohmDefine no win.   IBM is not going to be doomed.   IBM is also not going to be alone in a open market for long.May 21 11:44
oiaohmOrcale IBM and other hardware makers this could get quite dynamic.May 21 11:44
schestowitzRed Hat Introduces New Products http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3821026/ http://searchsoa.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid26_gci1356884,00.htmlMay 21 11:45
schestowitzoiaohm: no win for use, the mere peonsMay 21 11:45
schestowitzRed Hat Wins Major Contract in Slovenia http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090520005331&newsLang=enMay 21 11:46
oiaohmTrue open competition in the market normally results in lower prices.May 21 11:47
schestowitzYes, but we need control of our computing.May 21 11:47
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZWKXNo_vA0May 21 11:47
oiaohmI knowMay 21 11:47
oiaohmYou have to get crack first.May 21 11:48
oiaohmMore competition more open market then people can start asking for more control.May 21 11:48
oiaohmNice part about competing vendors is that you can play one agaisnt the other to get more control.May 21 11:49
schestowitzUbuntu Aims to Make GNU/Linux SaaS Its Own http://www.mspmentor.net/2009/05/19/managed-services-meet-linux-clouds/May 21 11:49
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, exactlyMay 21 11:50
schestowitzAlso, you can threaten to live if there is no lockinMay 21 11:50
schestowitzRed Hat->DebianMay 21 11:50
schestowitzLiMo Keeps Expanding with Mobile Linux http://www.reuters.com/article/GlobalTechnology09/idUSTRE54J1GQ20090520May 21 11:51
oiaohmLook at what IBM is upto is first stage.May 21 11:52
schestowitzDell Keeps Expanding with GNU/Linux http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10245400-1.htmlMay 21 11:53
schestowitzoiaohm: aye. IBM is to be watched cautiously.May 21 11:53
schestowitzIBM doesn't hate us "Linux people"May 21 11:53
schestowitzHe uses usMay 21 11:53
schestowitzTo sell more IBMMay 21 11:54
schestowitz /He/It/May 21 11:54
schestowitzAs long as IBM improves my Mandriva and tessier's CentOS, I'm fine with thatMay 21 11:54
MinceRr4wrMay 21 11:55
oiaohmIBM will be stepping on NAS market zones.May 21 11:55
schestowitzMost Popular Mobile Browser Targets Linux? http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10012783o-2000331761b,00.htmMay 21 11:56
schestowitzNAS? IBM?May 21 11:56
schestowitzThey sell NAS appliances?May 21 11:56
MinceR"Garnet-based Access Linux Platform" Garnet-based? i thought it was Cobalt-basedMay 21 11:57
schestowitzYeah, I saw thatMay 21 11:58
schestowitzDid Cobalt make the light of day?May 21 11:58
schestowitzPalm OS 5.5?May 21 11:58
schestowitzOr thereabouts?May 21 11:59
schestowitzPalm OS will have a place in the bit museum... in some jar with jelly and a memory chipMay 21 11:59
schestowitzThe Sun Only Powers GNU/Linux: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/05/spanish-solar-powered-bio-degradable-netbook/May 21 12:01
schestowitz"University of Paderborn plans to buy 3000 netbooks and would accept them running Linux." http://jan.wildeboer.net/2009/05/identica-updates-for-2009-05-16/May 21 12:02
schestowitzNew Notebook Costs $250 and Runs GNU/Linux http://www.digitalhome.ca/content/view/3711/280/May 21 12:03
MinceRi think they've turned Cobalt into ALPMay 21 12:03
schestowitzYesMay 21 12:03
schestowitzACCESS Linux PlatformMay 21 12:04
schestowitzIIRCMay 21 12:04
MinceRafter they've replaced the proprietary kernel they licensed from whoever with LinuxMay 21 12:04
MinceRPalm OS 5 is Garnet, Palm OS 6 was CobaltMay 21 12:04
oiaohmSolar netbook/laptop would be useful in place.May 21 12:05
schestowitzYes, also for travelMay 21 12:06
schestowitzThere is one with rechargeable benchMay 21 12:06
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schestowitzYou sit on it to recharge and it uses solar energyMay 21 12:06
schestowitzkentma: the server was down for a momentMay 21 12:06
schestowitzSay Hello to Officeshots.org http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/120597/May 21 12:08
oiaohmcamping way around country comes around my mind.May 21 12:09
schestowitzDepends which countryMay 21 12:10
schestowitzMaybe AussieMay 21 12:10
schestowitzBut in non-rural countries (urban) you can charge upMay 21 12:10
schestowitzAlso carry mmultiple batteriesMay 21 12:10
schestowitzA lot of pocket calculators become solar-powered over timeMay 21 12:11
schestowitzThese days, PDAs/smartphones replace those. Same goes for watches. I have not been wearing any watches for yearsMay 21 12:11
schestowitzHealth Care Wants to be Open, with Free Software http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2009/05/should-health-care-standards-be-open-source.html#moreMay 21 12:14
oiaohmAustralia its cheeper to stay in a tent in a lot of places without power points.May 21 12:14
schestowitzThe US has many tent cities developingMay 21 12:15
schestowitzWorse than caravan cities (aka trailer park)May 21 12:15
schestowitzPoverty takes its toll. People who bought first to pay laterMay 21 12:15
schestowitzNow they sell the houses at a loss to pay back mortgages they are unable to affordMay 21 12:16
oiaohmMost of our tent cities are well paid people.   If you don't have a job here you do get a min income.May 21 12:16
oiaohmUSA is a very nasty place for how they treat people.May 21 12:17
schestowitzYou mean Clinton and welfare?May 21 12:18
schestowitzThey reformed the systemMay 21 12:18
schestowitzLimits on welfare and all.May 21 12:18
oiaohmThere is and is not a limit here.May 21 12:18
oiaohmYou will always get money.   But past a particular point you will have to work for it doing community things.May 21 12:19
oiaohmSo people don't end up stuffed.May 21 12:19
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schestowitzCisco makes peace with Free Software Foundation http://blogs.computerworld.com/cisco_makes_peace_with_free_software_foundationMay 21 12:21
schestowitzBritish Government Bamboozled by Microsoft and Lock-in < http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2205&blogid=14 >May 21 12:22
oiaohmYep Cisco settled.May 21 12:23
oiaohmCisco said early on they would not fight it if another way was provided.May 21 12:24
oiaohmOdds of winning a GPL case before a judge is slim to none.May 21 12:24
schestowitzGovernments Increasingly Bite Into Freedom Software http://magazine.redhat.com/2009/05/19/video-open-source-government/May 21 12:25
schestowitzoiaohm: it would also be bad PRMay 21 12:25
schestowitz[had Cisco became anti-GPL fighter]May 21 12:25
oiaohmIt was bad PR with the screw up.May 21 12:27
oiaohmIt would have been night mare PR to fight it.May 21 12:27
oiaohmThat british one is talking about doing what I was talking about.May 21 12:28
oiaohmSlow but long term work to freeself.May 21 12:28
schestowitzYesMay 21 12:29
schestowitzMaybe the recession ain't helpingMay 21 12:29
schestowitzThey think short-ter (survival)May 21 12:29
oiaohmrecession is helping.May 21 12:31
oiaohmWhy else would they be worried about reducing development costs.May 21 12:31
schestowitzYes, I knowMay 21 12:35
schestowitzBut there are those reversing the argumentsMay 21 12:35
oiaohmTrue TCO once you get over a particular size there is no real saving out sourcing to closed source.May 21 12:56
*liberfiasco is now known as liberviscoMay 21 13:00
schestowitzExactly.May 21 13:02
schestowitzBut never use the term TCOMay 21 13:03
schestowitzIt was created by Microsoft and Gartner to mock Linux and FOSSMay 21 13:03
oiaohmTCO they created to mock Linux.   But its a double sided sword.May 21 13:06
schestowitzNot reallyMay 21 13:29
schestowitzBetter to rename or chnage terminologyMay 21 13:29
oiaohmWe could always change it to a FCAMay 21 13:31
oiaohmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_cost_accountingMay 21 13:31
oiaohmYou are basically doing the same thing.May 21 13:31
schestowitzYOU HAVE NO RIGHTS - George Carlin < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E >May 21 13:39
schestowitzGeorge Carlin - We Like War < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDkhzHQO7jY&NR=1 >. Very funny!May 21 13:51
oiaohmUsa large business is making weapons.May 21 13:52
oiaohmWithout wars what use are weapons.May 21 13:52
oiaohmhttp://www.blendernation.com/2009/05/21/truespace-story-ending/  Another section of MS bites the big one.May 21 13:59
schestowitzGeorge Carlin on Our Similarities < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgps85scy1g&NR=1 > Also greatMay 21 13:59
*schestowitz lokksMay 21 14:00
schestowitzoiaohm: thanksMay 21 14:10
schestowitzAn administrator from an anti-Linux site claims to be the attacker BTWMay 21 14:10
schestowitzBut I won't mention thisMay 21 14:10
oiaohmNot worth advertising them.May 21 14:11
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oiaohmIf they are the attacker another attacker will take them out.May 21 14:11
oiaohmInsane buggers exist on both sides.May 21 14:11
oiaohmGeorge Carlin is great.May 21 14:12
schestowitzDid you want that last link?May 21 14:12
oiaohmIf you mean the blendernation one use it .  Its indirectly advertised blender that is use.May 21 14:15
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schestowitzGive me a moment..May 21 14:29
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schestowitzMicrosoft Kills Another Product a Year After Buying it < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/21/microsoft-ends-truespace/ >May 21 14:33
oiaohmBlender.org itself was brought by users when it closed down.May 21 14:36
oiaohmoppsMay 21 14:36
oiaohmWhen NAN closed down.May 21 14:36
oiaohm3d developers are one of the few groups who will due to the cost of converting models.May 21 14:36
oiaohmReally if MS is truly short of money they should put a price tag on it.   Blender was a few Million for the source code.May 21 14:37
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schestowitzBlender used to be proprietary IIRCMay 21 14:54
oiaohmYep what I totally screwed up saying schestowitz.May 21 15:00
oiaohmhttp://www.osnews.com/story/21530/The_Loongson-2_MIPS_Lemote_Yeeloong_Netbook  Binary blob free laptop.May 21 15:00
schestowitzNiceMay 21 15:01
oiaohm /netbook.May 21 15:01
oiaohmIf they would only get a little larger with a old style keyboard so I can type.May 21 15:01
oiaohmhttp://linux.com/news/enterprise/biz-enterprise/11216-new-study-shows-linux-desktop-growing-stronger   The graphic there really shows the problem areas.May 21 15:05
twitterNo one but a sole developer has the "latest version" of any free software.  It improves continuously from many sources contributors.  You can come close to newest but never get there.  Another difference between free and non free software is that you can make the missing feature you want.  Non free software users don't always understand this.May 21 15:10
twitterGoogle street view is a great tool.May 21 15:13
twittermuch nicer than the M$ way of using other people's pictures with geolocation to make the same kind of maps.May 21 15:14
twitterand much more functionalMay 21 15:14
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oiaohmThe word of that needs to improved.   With open source/free software.  You can always find other people interested in the same features as you.May 21 15:14
twitterIf you want to worry about privacy violations, look to the M$ 3d map projectMay 21 15:14
oiaohmand in most case in time get them developed.May 21 15:14
twitterand look to UID in photo tagsMay 21 15:15
schestowitzOn Personal Abuse from Novell < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/21/personal-abuse-from-novell/ >May 21 15:16
twitterthere is a free or at least "open" mapping project.  http://openstreetmap.org/May 21 15:16
schestowitzYes, twitter, agreed.May 21 15:16
twitterI remember reading about blue tooth in cameras and cell phones being used to track individual movement in malls.  how creepy is that?May 21 15:17
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schestowitzSome people are still very secretive about their lives. It's a mentality mode.May 21 15:17
taconehow it's going with doses and stuff ?May 21 15:17
schestowitzI've been open since around 2003May 21 15:17
DaemonFCschestowitz: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/05/acer-tells-kids-charity-pay-up-or-shut.htmlMay 21 15:17
schestowitzYes, got thatMay 21 15:17
schestowitzDaemonFC: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_thread/thread/89124fc0354497c0#May 21 15:18
twitterthe problem is control.  an organization that has access to email, phone, traffic cameras, purchasing information, and location information - in short the "Total Information Awareness" - has the power to identify, track and neutralize for political and economic reasons.May 21 15:19
twitterIt is beyond Orwel's darkest imagination.May 21 15:20
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twitterand most of it is already in placeMay 21 15:20
twitterevery check written in the US is scanned front and back with OCR, which is amazingly accurate, then corrected by hand, then sent to the Federal government.May 21 15:21
twittercredit cards are obvious trackingMay 21 15:21
twitteremail and phone calls have been violated completely.May 21 15:21
twitterinbound, outbound filtering exist at ISP level and above.May 21 15:22
twittervoice communication can automatically be trasncribed and filtered with reasonable accuracyMay 21 15:22
twittertraffic cameras have already been used to stop and harass for political reasons in the UKMay 21 15:23
twittercell phones also provide tracking informationMay 21 15:23
twittereven public buses have cameras in them now.May 21 15:23
twitteryou can't go anywhere of interest, spend anything, or say anything with any reasonable assurance of privacy.  It's gross and it is no wonder that the economy falls over.May 21 15:25
oiaohmLaptops bricking is nothing new.May 21 15:25
oiaohmI always ask to the the bios before buying.May 21 15:25
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MinceRoiaohm: please elaborate.May 21 15:26
oiaohmPhoenix have had the habit of storing password in flashMay 21 15:27
oiaohmNot cmos for a long time.May 21 15:27
Balrog_oiaohm: that's evilMay 21 15:27
Balrog_unless there's a backdoorMay 21 15:28
oiaohmBasically without the master password for that model you are screwed unless you pull the bios out and rewrite it.May 21 15:28
DaemonFCI think I know how he could fix itMay 21 15:28
DaemonFCthey have those external BIOS flashersMay 21 15:28
DaemonFCfor when you can't get the machine to start at allMay 21 15:29
oiaohmYep.May 21 15:29
oiaohmThat is the way in against phoenix's.May 21 15:29
DaemonFCif he could find a shop with one of thoseMay 21 15:29
DaemonFCexplain that he was a charityMay 21 15:29
DaemonFCthey may do somethingMay 21 15:29
MinceRhow difficult are those to get?May 21 15:29
MinceRand how much do they cost?May 21 15:29
DaemonFCabout $1,000 I believeMay 21 15:29
DaemonFCexpensiveMay 21 15:29
MinceRalso, i'd figure it means losing warrantyMay 21 15:30
DaemonFCnoMay 21 15:30
oiaohmDepends on bios.May 21 15:30
MinceR(though if you do have warranty, you might be able to have it fixed...)May 21 15:30
DaemonFCif you flash over it with their BIOSMay 21 15:30
DaemonFCthey'd never know it from an updateMay 21 15:30
MinceRi'm not only considering the "do they know" angle, thoughMay 21 15:30
MinceRalso legallyMay 21 15:30
DaemonFCit's legalMay 21 15:30
DaemonFCyou didn't reverse engineer anythingMay 21 15:30
DaemonFCyou own the machineMay 21 15:31
MinceR(that is, what do the legal terms of warranty allow you to do)May 21 15:31
DaemonFCand this gives you no idea how their shit worksMay 21 15:31
DaemonFCit jsut flashes over it with a clean copyMay 21 15:31
DaemonFCthey can't tell you that you can't update your BIOSMay 21 15:31
DaemonFC:PMay 21 15:31
MinceR:)May 21 15:31
MinceRbut they can tell you that you can't open the case to access the flash bios chipMay 21 15:32
MinceRcan't they?May 21 15:32
DaemonFCnoMay 21 15:32
DaemonFCthose ports are meant for just such an occassionMay 21 15:32
DaemonFCthey would have him ship it to them to do the same damned thingMay 21 15:32
oiaohmCheepest I have see for the writer is 200 AUD.  More expensive onces cover more chip types.May 21 15:32
DaemonFCany A+ certified computer repair shop will have oneMay 21 15:33
oiaohmIssue is acer don't make it simple.May 21 15:33
oiaohmThey solder the bugger on.May 21 15:33
oiaohmYep no socket to remove it from.May 21 15:34
DaemonFChence the service portMay 21 15:34
DaemonFCit's cheaper to let it be externally flashed than to replace EVERY board that comes backMay 21 15:35
oiaohmThere is another something more evil.  CPU is removable.  CPU form of board with that connects to the CPU and uses its own bios to start up.  once started you can flash the on board flash.May 21 15:37
oiaohmSo not all boards have service ports either.May 21 15:38
MinceR:)May 21 15:38
MinceRwhere are the service ports typically?May 21 15:38
oiaohmAnywhere.May 21 15:38
oiaohmThey can be as crapply as a few tracks leading to dead ends on the boardMay 21 15:39
oiaohmGoing in different directions away from the flash.May 21 15:39
oiaohmWith boards been 4 layour + known that it is the service port can be tricky.May 21 15:41
DaemonFChmmm, Hotmail SMTP requires TLSMay 21 15:42
MinceRso does googleMay 21 15:43
DaemonFCSSL works with googleMay 21 15:43
DaemonFCwasn't TLS invesnted by Microsoft?May 21 15:44
schestowitzinvested/inventedMay 21 15:45
schestowitzSame thing in MSMay 21 15:45
schestowitzThey buy 'inventions'May 21 15:45
MinceRafaik TLS is just an IETF standardized version of SSL 3.0May 21 15:46
MinceR(that's what came out of standardizing SSL)May 21 15:46
MinceR(actually it started at 3.0)May 21 15:47
DaemonFCI thought the funniest post on that HeliOS blog was that school teacherMay 21 15:52
DaemonFC"If you ask Microsofot real nicely, I'm sure they could give you a few copies of Windows XP"May 21 15:52
DaemonFC*MicrosoftMay 21 15:52
DaemonFC"Linux is illegal dontcha know?"May 21 15:53
MinceRlolMay 21 15:53
DaemonFC:PMay 21 15:53
DaemonFC20 cents a CD is about what each blank costs retail, if thatMay 21 15:54
DaemonFCsay 5 cents to package itMay 21 15:54
DaemonFCin one of those nice sleevesMay 21 15:54
Balrog_or 50c for a 'jewel case;May 21 15:55
Balrog_' *May 21 15:55
MinceRsleeves are hardly nice :>May 21 15:55
DaemonFCso Microsoft can send out 4 copies of XP and it would only cost them $1 or soMay 21 15:55
DaemonFCfor the materialsMay 21 15:55
DaemonFCmaybe 75 cents to mail each one in a cardboard sleeve on top of thatMay 21 15:55
DaemonFCso about $1 a copyMay 21 15:56
DaemonFCif they mailed a physical copy out to schoolsMay 21 15:56
DaemonFCnow they can also use VLK and make each CD installable on up to 100 systemsMay 21 15:57
schestowitzWhy not over the network?May 21 15:57
DaemonFCso for $100 from Microsoft you could install 10,000 copies of XPMay 21 15:57
MinceRthey prefer to make them pay a lot from taxpayers' money anywayMay 21 15:57
DaemonFCthat's if they sent you the stuff on a stamped CDMay 21 15:58
DaemonFCin the mailMay 21 15:58
DaemonFCbut then they take the 10,000 CDsMay 21 15:58
DaemonFCthey say "This is $200 worth of software, EACH!"May 21 15:58
DaemonFCand they write $2 million off their taxesMay 21 15:59
DaemonFCas a business lossMay 21 15:59
DaemonFCoff a $100 investmentMay 21 15:59
DaemonFCand say 12 kids use each computer and those computers last through 5-6 years in each classroomMay 21 16:00
DaemonFCnow they have a factory where they teach millions of kids to need Windows and get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for doing so by the US governmentMay 21 16:00
DaemonFCand schestowitz is right, the vast majority is just they give the school a VLK and a download linkMay 21 16:01
DaemonFCand the school has to use their resources to download and burn itMay 21 16:01
DaemonFCso they don't even pay the full $100 investment :PMay 21 16:01
DaemonFCit becomes free advertising paid for by the IRS tax codeMay 21 16:02
DaemonFCthose free copies of Windows are still getting paid forMay 21 16:02
DaemonFC:)May 21 16:02
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'm going to be calling AcerMay 21 16:07
Balrog_DaemonFC: why?May 21 16:07
DaemonFCand I'm going to record itMay 21 16:08
DaemonFCjust to voice my disgustMay 21 16:08
DaemonFCWikipedia is slowMay 21 16:09
DaemonFC:PMay 21 16:09
DaemonFCand it's inaccessible nowMay 21 16:10
DaemonFC:PMay 21 16:10
Balrog_inaccessible?!?May 21 16:10
DaemonFCyeahMay 21 16:11
DaemonFCprobably just under loadMay 21 16:12
DaemonFCmaybeMay 21 16:12
DaemonFCit could be ComCrapMay 21 16:12
DaemonFCI just paid them $93 yesterdayMay 21 16:12
DaemonFCthey better fucking not have gotten any funny ideasMay 21 16:12
schestowitzBBC Wants to Build Another Windows Botnet < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/21/the-msbbc-wants-windows-botnets/  >May 21 16:13
Balrog_works 100 % well hereMay 21 16:13
DaemonFCit's ComCrapMay 21 16:13
DaemonFCevery other site works fineMay 21 16:13
schestowitzDaemonFC: get it up for YouTube.May 21 16:13
schestowitzI can do the OggMay 21 16:14
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DaemonFCToday we're calling it the BBC Botnet Variety Show, tommorrow we'll call it "Why Daddy Went To Prison"May 21 16:19
DaemonFC:)May 21 16:20
DaemonFCschestowitz: I take it the BBC is more or less like PBS?May 21 16:20
DaemonFCpublic broadcasting exterior with a crunchy corporate lobbyist filling?May 21 16:21
DaemonFC"This episode of 'Onwards Christian American Soldier' is brought to you by........Walmart'" :PMay 21 16:23
schestowitzI don't know PBS wellMay 21 16:27
schestowitzI saw some shows on it and Cringely was on it.May 21 16:27
DaemonFCCringely is several people actuallyMay 21 16:27
schestowitzDaemonFC: watch this: George Carlin - We Like War < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDkhzHQO7jY&NR=1 >May 21 16:28
DaemonFCif it'll loadMay 21 16:29
DaemonFCI'll be damnedMay 21 16:29
DaemonFC:)May 21 16:29
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137431/spam-world-christian-message "Benedict XVI thinks it is a nifty idea for the yoof of today to spam others with Christian messages."May 21 16:34
DaemonFCyeah, I got some of thoseMay 21 16:37
DaemonFCactuallyMay 21 16:37
DaemonFCsent an obscene message with a CC to the other 500 little shitsMay 21 16:37
schestowitzNetApp to buy Data Domain in $1.5 billion deal http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-technology/netapp-to-buy-data-domain-in-15-billion-deal-20090521-bfz2.htmlMay 21 16:37
DaemonFCand got back a reply from someone's mom saying she's press chargesMay 21 16:37
schestowitzJust tell em politely to peace the * outMay 21 16:37
DaemonFCI told her that I was going to go and risk it and commit a federal felong in telling her to get laid and to stop fucking bothering meMay 21 16:38
DaemonFC*felonyMay 21 16:38
schestowitzFei longMay 21 16:38
DaemonFCwell, it's not a crime to send someone  an obscene email if there aren't any threatsMay 21 16:39
DaemonFCright?May 21 16:39
DaemonFCI'm usually not in the business of sending themMay 21 16:39
DaemonFCbut when someone sends me 500 chain spams for JesusMay 21 16:39
DaemonFCI get kind of angryMay 21 16:39
DaemonFCit was an @aol emailMay 21 16:40
DaemonFCshe said she was a sheriff's deputyMay 21 16:40
DaemonFCso I referred to her as Deputy DipshitMay 21 16:40
DaemonFC:PMay 21 16:40
schestowitzHahaMay 21 16:41
schestowitzBe carefulMay 21 16:41
DaemonFCmehMay 21 16:41
DaemonFCshe doesn't have any jurisdiction hereMay 21 16:41
DaemonFCand even if she did, I doubt calling someone a bad word is a crimeMay 21 16:42
DaemonFC:PMay 21 16:42
DaemonFCyou hear Craigslist is suing the SOuth Carolina Attorney GeneralMay 21 16:42
DaemonFChope they winMay 21 16:42
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schestowitzWebsites 'keeping deleted photos' < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8060407.stm >May 21 16:45
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schestowitzYahoo!, Google, Microsoft still hiring in India < http://www.mydigitalfc.com/jobs/yahoo-google-microsoft-still-hiring-india-610 >May 21 16:47
the_mad_hatterRoy, I mentioned last week my issues with Evolution being integrated into the gnome desktopMay 21 16:47
schestowitzI nver used Evolution muchMay 21 16:48
the_mad_hatterUbuntu Forums ThreadMay 21 16:48
the_mad_hatterhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7284290#post7284290May 21 16:48
the_mad_hatterGroklaw ThreadMay 21 16:48
the_mad_hatterhttp://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20090520173819315&title=Yes%2C+we+know+that+removing+Mono+is+easy%2C+what+about+Evolution%3F&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=757643#c757706May 21 16:48
schestowitzIt feels like Novel building Microsoft WindowsMay 21 16:48
the_mad_hatterYes, and that's why I want it out of Gnome.May 21 16:48
schestowitzMono, Evolution, OOXML, etc.May 21 16:48
_boo_what's wrong with evolution?May 21 16:49
the_mad_hatterRead the Groklaw post, best explanation is there.May 21 16:49
the_mad_hatterIt's hard to do a good write up in IRC I find <G>.May 21 16:49
|Grommet|lolMay 21 16:50
the_mad_hatterAnd of course the additional issue is that it's a Novell backed project, and I don't trust Novell.May 21 16:50
*|Grommet| is now known as GrommetMay 21 16:50
the_mad_hatterSo until it's removed from Gnome, I'm going to another desktop.May 21 16:51
Grommetthis channel makes me feel like my computer is looking at me :/May 21 16:51
the_mad_hatterMine is - it has a camera <G>May 21 16:51
schestowitz"In fact from a development point of view it sounds like what Microsoft does with Internet Exploder..."May 21 16:52
GrommethehMay 21 16:52
the_mad_hatterYes. Exactly.May 21 16:52
schestowitzGrommet: HP is the one spying on journosMay 21 16:53
GrommetI odn't have an HPMay 21 16:54
the_mad_hatterGood old HP. The CEO knew about it to, and he didn't get canned.May 21 16:54
Grommetso that part is safeMay 21 16:54
Grommetbut I do use suseMay 21 16:54
Grommetso... that feels iffyMay 21 16:54
the_mad_hatterYeah, SUSE is iffy since Novell bought them. If you check Distrowatch, the SUSE market share has been dropping since the deal.May 21 16:55
GrommetI been using it foreverMay 21 16:55
MinceRsuse sucked beforehand. :PMay 21 16:55
the_mad_hatterNovell must be feeling the pinch. As must Xandros, their market share is also dropping.May 21 16:55
Grommethaha it was better back in the 6.x daysMay 21 16:56
the_mad_hatterEven buying Linspire didn't help.May 21 16:56
DaemonFCschestowitz: http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/05/17/microsoft-pays-yes-men-to-spread-more-fud-about-firefox-chrome-and-opera/#comment-853May 21 16:56
DaemonFCInJoy!May 21 16:56
DaemonFC;)May 21 16:56
the_mad_hatterYeah, well I won't use or recommend any distro which signs a patent deal with MS, and most people I know won't either. Signing a patent deal with MS is suicide.May 21 16:57
the_mad_hatterAnyway, gotta run, see you later.May 21 16:57
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*Grommet eyes his pc suspiciouslyMay 21 17:16
GrommethmmMay 21 17:16
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Balrog_<http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ubuntu-linux-guide,2293.html>May 21 17:46
Balrog_"Desktop Linux For The Windows Power User"May 21 17:46
DaemonFChttp://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/why-inprivate-is-no-excuse-for-ies-indecent-behavior/May 21 17:49
DaemonFC"There’s just historically never been much of a need for an InPrivate-style idiot button when Mozilla has done so much more and so much better."May 21 17:51
DaemonFC:)May 21 17:51
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schestowitzDaemonFC: Microsof t-- disrespects your privacy by default.May 21 18:01
schestowitzBalrog_: nothing to do w/ Power UsersMay 21 18:02
DaemonFChow the hell could Microsoft be hit by Conficker>May 21 18:05
DaemonFCdon't they use Server Core?May 21 18:05
DaemonFCthat doesn't even have most of the stuff that viruses hijackMay 21 18:05
schestowitzURL?May 21 18:08
schestowitzThe ones I gave?May 21 18:08
taconeschestowitz:  that ODF article you did is dynamiteMay 21 18:09
_boo_DaemonFC, things that conficker uses servers use for sureMay 21 18:09
Grommetanyone got a URL for conficker hitting microsoft?May 21 18:10
_boo_lolMay 21 18:10
_boo_is there such url?May 21 18:10
_boo_if yes, then wtf...May 21 18:10
_boo_http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/11803_3813026_1May 21 18:11
_boo_conficker hitted almost everythingMay 21 18:11
DaemonFChttp://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/05/01/download_crash_windows/May 21 18:11
_boo_plenty of links ova the internetsMay 21 18:11
DaemonFCschestowitzMay 21 18:11
DaemonFCyou don't suppose Micrsoft pulled the plugMay 21 18:11
DaemonFCand then blamed user response?May 21 18:12
DaemonFClolMay 21 18:12
_boo_why notMay 21 18:13
_boo_m$ is not capable of reliabilityMay 21 18:14
_boo_their only power is users' fearMay 21 18:15
_boo_and fear can't last alwaysMay 21 18:15
DaemonFCI still don't know how Conficker could spread through any properly secured systemMay 21 18:16
_boo_lolMay 21 18:17
DaemonFCthe holes it exploits were fixed LAST YEARMay 21 18:17
_boo_properly secured...May 21 18:17
DaemonFCthe holes it exploits were fixed LAST YEAR!!!!May 21 18:17
DaemonFC:PMay 21 18:17
DaemonFCwho goes for a year without updates?May 21 18:17
DaemonFCpirate copieMay 21 18:17
_boo_m$ was always cracked by someone, no?May 21 18:17
DaemonFC*pirate copiesMay 21 18:17
DaemonFCwell, as long as the virus hasn't been updatred, it still targets long-patched vulnerabilitiesMay 21 18:17
_boo_waht?May 21 18:18
_boo_viruses even hit zero-day vulnerabilitiesMay 21 18:18
_boo_so wtf dudeMay 21 18:19
_boo_conficker was even fixed for md6 fixupMay 21 18:20
_boo_XDMay 21 18:20
DaemonFCwhy don't they use Conficker for anything?May 21 18:22
DaemonFCit's been a long timeMay 21 18:22
_boo_conficker is just a proof of conceptMay 21 18:23
_boo_that m$ costs 0May 21 18:23
_boo_several other virusesMay 21 18:24
_boo_and m$' cost is negativeMay 21 18:24
_boo_even though they are proof of conceptMay 21 18:24
schestowitztacone: thanksMay 21 18:25
_boo_if only conficker did anythingMay 21 18:25
_boo_m$ will lose its marketshare much betterMay 21 18:26
schestowitzDaemonFC: yes, the Vista7 demand is fakeMay 21 18:26
schestowitzArtificial scarcity creates demand and hypeMay 21 18:26
schestowitzTell me when WIndows Update runs out of capacity :-)May 21 18:26
DaemonFCyeah "We're only letting 100,000 people download it" for the first betaMay 21 18:26
_boo_waht?May 21 18:27
schestowitz"Who wants to be a (guinea ) pig? Me, me, ME!!"May 21 18:27
_boo_i suspect that m$ is paying the internet billsMay 21 18:27
schestowitzInternet Bills?May 21 18:28
_boo_don't they host some provider for m$?May 21 18:28
schestowitz"The Internet? We are not interested in it." --ill Gates, 1993May 21 18:28
schestowitzHehe.May 21 18:28
schestowitzFunny typoMay 21 18:28
_boo_doesn't matterMay 21 18:28
schestowitzIll GatesMay 21 18:28
DaemonFChttp://digg.com/odd_stuff/Man_Punches_Chuck_E_Cheese_During_Kiddie_Attack?FC=PRCK1May 21 18:28
DaemonFCroflMay 21 18:28
_boo_'cause you can't trust anybody from m$May 21 18:28
_boo_they talk 1 way and do the otherMay 21 18:28
_boo_kiddie attack lolMay 21 18:29
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balzacget a load of thisMay 21 18:35
balzacBuy Adobe CS4 Legally - www.Adobe.com - Keygens & Cracks Can Harm Your CPU Discounts for Students, 80% Off!May 21 18:35
balzacThat ad was shown in my gmailMay 21 18:36
balzacand it linked directly here: http://tryit.adobe.com/us/student/ap/?sdid=ELCIQMay 21 18:36
DaemonFCharm your CPU?May 21 18:36
DaemonFCuhhhhm no?May 21 18:36
balzacverbatimMay 21 18:36
DaemonFCthey can have virusesMay 21 18:36
DaemonFCwhy didn't they just say that?May 21 18:36
balzacmaybe because your typical windows user already has virii, and mac users aren't worriedMay 21 18:37
DaemonFCand who needs Photoshop?May 21 18:37
DaemonFCWindows Paint is enough for most of the people that pirate PhotoshoMay 21 18:37
DaemonFCI think they just do it cause they canMay 21 18:37
balzacgimpMay 21 18:37
DaemonFCPhotoshopMay 21 18:37
balzacwindows paint is doo dooMay 21 18:37
schestowitzGIMP FTWMay 21 18:37
*DaemonFC hates GimpMay 21 18:37
schestowitzWOT??May 21 18:37
schestowitzWho can hate the GIMP?May 21 18:37
balzaci use it every dayMay 21 18:37
schestowitzIt's cuteMay 21 18:37
schestowitzIt's like a petMay 21 18:38
schestowitzLike FirefoxMay 21 18:38
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GimpshopMay 21 18:38
DaemonFC:)May 21 18:38
DaemonFCunfortunately it's not as up to date as it could be :PMay 21 18:39
DaemonFCif the Gimp could do what a $2,000 piece of software couldMay 21 18:40
DaemonFCI'm sure everyone would be using itMay 21 18:40
taconethey had a big break in the developmentMay 21 18:41
taconea years breakMay 21 18:41
taconegoing offline. byeMay 21 18:42
DaemonFCPhotoshop has some really nasty copy protectionMay 21 18:42
DaemonFCif you botch the crack it can render your copy of Windows  inoperableMay 21 18:43
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DaemonFCI should send some money to support DemonoidMay 21 18:44
DaemonFCthey have a great site and I don't like leechingMay 21 18:44
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schestowitzJob losses hit C&W profits < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/21/cable_wireless/ >May 21 18:47
schestowitzzoobab01: did you see this? Microsoft loses $200m in Texas Hold 'em up patent suit < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/21/microsoft_word_patent_damages/ >May 21 18:50
schestowitzCSC freezes UK pay < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/05/21/csc_pay_freeze/ >May 21 18:51
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schestowitzLink #1: tacone's Mono crusade: http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/?p=1457May 21 18:53
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schestowitzVeoh Investors Vindicated  < http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=106044 >May 21 18:55
schestowitzDaemonFC: did you pay em?May 21 18:55
schestowitzLast Chance For The Old Recording Industry... But Plenty Of Excitement In The New Music Industry < http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090519/0213544923.shtml >May 21 18:55
DaemonFC?May 21 18:55
DaemonFCnahMay 21 18:55
DaemonFCI'll have to see about getting more money on that cardMay 21 18:55
DaemonFCI don't fork over my credit card onlineMay 21 18:56
DaemonFCever\May 21 18:56
schestowitzSatellites Take on Crime Busting Along the Border < http://www.usnews.com/articles/science/2009/05/18/satellites-take-on-crime-busting-along-the-border.html >May 21 18:57
amarsh04last CD I ordered on-line, the composer's wife mailed the disk to meMay 21 18:57
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schestowitzDaemonFC: we moved to economy where payments are differentMay 21 18:57
schestowitzearlier: <schestowitz> Link #1: tacone's Mono crusade: http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/?p=1457May 21 18:58
taconeWhat's that ?May 21 18:58
schestowitznice new siteMay 21 18:59
taconeUh guess I saw that. NiceMay 21 18:59
schestowitzhttp://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-05-19-newjobs_N.htm?csp=34 Several Bush officials work in areas related to former jobsMay 21 18:59
DaemonFCI don't trust the chain if you get meMay 21 18:59
schestowitzThis guy sometimes links to BN and he's a good source for MAFIAA headlinesMay 21 18:59
DaemonFCthere's too many things that could be compromisedMay 21 18:59
DaemonFCWhen you send your credit card info, you really have no idea who gets it on the other end or what they'll do, or if there's someone that intercepts it at some pointMay 21 19:00
schestowitzDan Aykroyd says 'Ghostbusters 3' may start filming in winter < http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/05/dan-aykroyd-says-ghostbusters-3-may-start-filming-in-winter.html > That ought to get the Americans in more of a mood for wars and heroesMay 21 19:00
DaemonFCyeah, all of usMay 21 19:01
DaemonFCcause we all approved of thisMay 21 19:01
DaemonFCevery oneMay 21 19:01
schestowitzI was like 7 when the first one was outMay 21 19:01
DaemonFCwe had a consensus voteMay 21 19:01
schestowitzI was afraid of the ghosts in the film ;-:May 21 19:01
DaemonFCand all 305 million AmericansMay 21 19:01
DaemonFCand the 40 million illegal immigrantsMay 21 19:01
DaemonFCall agreedMay 21 19:01
schestowitzYes, credit cards get abusedMay 21 19:01
schestowitzpaying some trusted companies might work sometimesMay 21 19:02
schestowitzWhen they offshore stuff that too becomes an issueMay 21 19:02
schestowitzDecreased trustMay 21 19:02
DaemonFCschestowitz: The self checkouts at WalmartMay 21 19:02
schestowitzDaemonFC: how many people in the US...?May 21 19:02
DaemonFCuse Windows XP EmbeddedMay 21 19:02
schestowitz(Real number)May 21 19:02
DaemonFCabout 350-370 millionMay 21 19:02
schestowitzOKMay 21 19:02
DaemonFCif you count illegal immigrantsMay 21 19:02
Balrog_Apple's checkout system is only now being switched from Windows Mobile devicesMay 21 19:02
DaemonFCperhaps 305 million without themMay 21 19:03
schestowitzWalmart is a MS partnerMay 21 19:03
schestowitzJust watch the staffMay 21 19:03
schestowitzThey intersectMay 21 19:03
DaemonFCit's become such a problem that nobody will ever be able to come up with an answer that doesn't infuriate millions of peopleMay 21 19:03
DaemonFCbut the rich just use them as cheap day loborers with no rightsMay 21 19:03
schestowitzI'm sure the big execs there still meet in the secret elite meetings on occasionsMay 21 19:03
DaemonFCand if it gets to be too much trouble, they call immigrationMay 21 19:03
DaemonFCand I get to pay to cart them back to MexicoMay 21 19:03
DaemonFC*laborersMay 21 19:04
schestowitzYesMay 21 19:04
schestowitzLauandry tooMay 21 19:04
schestowitzSome come via CandaMay 21 19:04
schestowitz*CanadaMay 21 19:04
DaemonFCthose immigration "raids", I'm convinced are not raidsMay 21 19:04
DaemonFCthe workers were becoming obstinate and were "dealt with"May 21 19:04
schestowitzSo I hear anyway. It's probably covered very scarcely in the media... gives people IDEAS...May 21 19:04
schestowitzThey are all focused on MexicoMay 21 19:05
schestowitzWith my passport I can be in the States for a long timeMay 21 19:05
schestowitzBut now there's hardly a pointMay 21 19:05
DaemonFCnow you need a passport to go to CanadaMay 21 19:05
DaemonFCyou didn't used toMay 21 19:05
schestowitzOKMay 21 19:05
schestowitzWith NAFTA and all....May 21 19:05
DaemonFCbut there's spotes where you can drive across a 4 foot medianMay 21 19:05
schestowitzAre borders opening up?May 21 19:05
DaemonFCand that's thatMay 21 19:05
DaemonFCso there's a formalityMay 21 19:06
DaemonFCno real enforcementMay 21 19:06
schestowitzAs longer as they're GoodXians :-)May 21 19:06
DaemonFCMexico border is differentMay 21 19:06
DaemonFCthey set up huge barricades, not to keep illegals outMay 21 19:06
DaemonFCthey only set those up where the big drug smuggling routes into the US areMay 21 19:06
DaemonFCI say we should put up a minefieldMay 21 19:07
DaemonFCand make a 2 mile long buffer zoneMay 21 19:07
DaemonFCbut that's meMay 21 19:07
schestowitzLinux patches:May 21 19:07
schestowitzCompany Name   # Changes   % of TotalMay 21 19:07
schestowitzRedhat         9,351       11.2%May 21 19:07
schestowitzNovell         7,385       8.9%May 21 19:07
schestowitzIBM            6,952       8.3%May 21 19:07
schestowitzIntel          3,388       4.1%May 21 19:07
schestowitzGoogle           965       1.1%May 21 19:07
DaemonFCerr, 2 mile wide that isMay 21 19:07
schestowitzI did't know Google did this muchMay 21 19:07
DaemonFC2,700 miles longMay 21 19:07
schestowitzMaybe cause of AndroidMay 21 19:07
DaemonFCyeahMay 21 19:07
DaemonFCGoogle gives 11 patches to LinuxMay 21 19:08
DaemonFCfor every 1 from UbuntuMay 21 19:08
DaemonFC:PMay 21 19:08
schestowitzHeheMay 21 19:08
DaemonFCsad huh?:May 21 19:08
schestowitzLinux=kernel spaceMay 21 19:08
schestowitzUbuntu does other thingsMay 21 19:08
DaemonFCNvidia gives 3 patches to Linux for every 1 from UbuntuMay 21 19:08
schestowitzGreg K-H still FUDs emMay 21 19:08
DaemonFC:)May 21 19:08
DaemonFCit's not FUDMay 21 19:08
schestowitzNVIdia is a BIG companyMay 21 19:08
schestowitzNo comparison May 21 19:08
DaemonFCthey are worthless to all the parent projectsMay 21 19:08
DaemonFChe illustrated that quite wellMay 21 19:09
schestowitzUbuntu is just trying to keep up with patchesMay 21 19:09
DaemonFCUbuntu could drop off the map and maybe, maybe 0.001% of all Linux-related dev work would go with themMay 21 19:09
DaemonFCthey are parasites\May 21 19:09
DaemonFCthey essentially just make forks of the parent projects, and backport that projects later patches on an as-needed basisMay 21 19:10
DaemonFCthrow in 1 patch of their own sometimesMay 21 19:10
DaemonFCand that's UbuntuMay 21 19:10
DaemonFCThey actually had their biggest contribution ever so far in one single release in Linux 2.6.30May 21 19:11
balzacDaemonFC: you're wrong dudeMay 21 19:11
DaemonFCI know I saw at least a full dozen patches fly pastMay 21 19:11
DaemonFCout of several thousandMay 21 19:11
DaemonFCI've watched how Ubuntu operatesMay 21 19:11
DaemonFCthey only have their own GIT repo as a convenient place to stage patches from the real projectMay 21 19:11
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_thread/thread/888781ab48593b92/f8f9d7772e5b3de1May 21 19:12
balzacIt's like saying that some publisher who syndicates your RSS feed is a parasiteMay 21 19:12
DaemonFCthey never really do a lot of their own workMay 21 19:12
schestowitzbalzac: good analogyMay 21 19:12
schestowitzOr Google the parasiteMay 21 19:12
schestowitzFor indexing newsMay 21 19:12
schestowitzAnd giving them customersMay 21 19:12
schestowitzLike Ubuntu brings users to LinuxMay 21 19:12
DaemonFCI liked how Greg KH put it really "Mandriva has no people, no money, and still gave 287 patches in this time frame, Ubuntu gave 100"May 21 19:13
schestowitzThere's this joke that says, aren't reporters parasites writing about people's life stories for profit?May 21 19:13
DaemonFCUbuntu is little better than Mac OS XMay 21 19:13
DaemonFCfrom the point of take to give ratioMay 21 19:13
schestowitzFUD, DaemonFC May 21 19:13
balzacthat's saying a lotMay 21 19:13
DaemonFCI think Apple really does more than UbuntuMay 21 19:14
DaemonFCin free software workMay 21 19:14
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balzacA little better than OSX in terms of usabilityMay 21 19:14
balzacactually, a lot betterMay 21 19:14
DaemonFCespecially in X.orgMay 21 19:14
balzacDaemonFC: what's your distro?May 21 19:14
DaemonFCApple also turned KHTML into something humans want to useMay 21 19:14
DaemonFCyou can see how thrilled KDE is with thatMay 21 19:15
balzacwhat's your browser?May 21 19:15
DaemonFCthey still use their ownMay 21 19:15
balzacheck - what's your profession?May 21 19:15
MinceRKHTML started as something humans want to useMay 21 19:15
balzacI'm grilling you for lack of patriotism about GPL-licensed projectsMay 21 19:15
schestowitzhttp://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/956_signs.jpgMay 21 19:15
DaemonFCit's patriotic to not ask questionsMay 21 19:15
DaemonFCwho made you Fox News?May 21 19:15
balzacDaemonFC: that was a jokeMay 21 19:16
balzacbut the questions are sincereMay 21 19:16
balzacwhat distro?May 21 19:16
schestowitzHe uses VistaMay 21 19:16
balzaccome on, spill itMay 21 19:16
schestowitzBut not a shillMay 21 19:16
schestowitzJust a poserMay 21 19:16
DaemonFCthanksMay 21 19:16
DaemonFClolMay 21 19:16
balzache can't be using vista7May 21 19:17
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*mib_zc36jf is now known as _Hicham_May 21 19:17
_Hicham_Hi All!May 21 19:17
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balzacDaemonFC ran awayMay 21 19:18
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balzacDaemonFC: informationMay 21 19:19
balzacI want information.May 21 19:19
_Hicham_information about what?May 21 19:19
schestowitzYouTube Upload Rate Reaches 20 Hours/Minute < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/21/youtube-upload-rate-reaches-20-hoursminute >May 21 19:19
balzacI don't have long to wait, because I have work to do.May 21 19:19
balzac_Hicham_: I want to know what distro and what browser he usesMay 21 19:20
balzacand for what kind of workMay 21 19:20
schestowitzGot a cell-phone? FCC claims the right to search your house < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/20/got-a-cell-phon-fcc.html >May 21 19:20
*schestowitz a proud 'misowner' of a cellphoneMay 21 19:21
balzacI will kick in the door of the FCC's officeMay 21 19:21
DaemonFCthis XUL style isn't working rightMay 21 19:21
*DaemonFC has quit (Client Quit)May 21 19:21
_Hicham_DaemonFC is a real troll boyMay 21 19:21
schestowitzI've already figured out how I want to pronounce FCCMay 21 19:21
schestowitzKind of like with GNU..May 21 19:21
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_Hicham_FCC and DaemonFCMay 21 19:22
schestowitzFight terrorism by arresting terrorists, not by looking at our genitals at airports  < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/20/fight-terrorism-by-a.html >May 21 19:22
schestowitzFCC DaemonFC May 21 19:22
balzac"don't touch my junk"May 21 19:23
_Hicham_not only genitals schestowitzMay 21 19:23
schestowitz_Hicham_: what else?May 21 19:23
_Hicham_also the assesMay 21 19:23
schestowitzWell, they must check tooMay 21 19:23
_Hicham_a guy was practically fucked in LA airportMay 21 19:23
schestowitzMaybe the passenger swallowed bags of cocao (cocaine)May 21 19:23
_Hicham_they put a tiny cam is his assMay 21 19:23
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*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerMay 21 19:23
_Hicham_so he was fucked by a camMay 21 19:24
schestowitzLOLMay 21 19:24
ReverseGTRschestowitz: is _boo_ a regular?May 21 19:24
schestowitzHe nymshiftsMay 21 19:24
schestowitzKeeps getting banned from channelsMay 21 19:24
_Hicham_conclusion : never land in LAMay 21 19:24
ReverseGTRschestowitz: oh I wonder whyMay 21 19:25
schestowitzWe keep him here because we don't believe in censorshipMay 21 19:25
schestowitzI know hyMay 21 19:25
schestowitz*whyMay 21 19:25
_Hicham_schestowitz is a great freedom activistMay 21 19:25
balzac_Hicham_: really?May 21 19:25
_Hicham_balzac : really about what?May 21 19:25
balzacHe got fucked by a dildo-camMay 21 19:25
ReverseGTRanyway what is going on in M$ SNAFU land?May 21 19:25
balzacjesus christMay 21 19:25
_Hicham_yesMay 21 19:25
_Hicham_I ve read that in a newspaperMay 21 19:25
schestowitzReport: Attackers exploit IIS hole to breach university server < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10245815-83.html >May 21 19:25
balzacthat's really obsceneMay 21 19:26
schestowitzWow. IISMay 21 19:26
schestowitzThe Wow Starts Now. Rebooting system... we got a Trojan!May 21 19:26
_Hicham_IIS is great schestowitzMay 21 19:26
_Hicham_you should useMay 21 19:26
schestowitzWhat for?May 21 19:26
_Hicham_it is gonna be ported by the mono project soonMay 21 19:26
schestowitzHoneypots?May 21 19:26
schestowitzMono will make a 'cheap IIS'May 21 19:26
schestowitzAnd then mock ApacheMay 21 19:26
schestowitzLook MONOSP.NET on MoonpacheMay 21 19:27
_Hicham_boycottnovell powered by NovellMay 21 19:27
schestowitzSomething with N's and M'sMay 21 19:27
_Hicham_best slogan I ve ever seenMay 21 19:27
schestowitz_Hicham_: yeah, we joked about itMay 21 19:27
schestowitzWhat if we moved to a SLES serverMay 21 19:27
_Hicham_that would be really coolMay 21 19:27
_Hicham_seriouslyMay 21 19:27
_Hicham_that would prove one pointMay 21 19:27
schestowitzNopeMay 21 19:28
schestowitzIt's funny at firstMay 21 19:28
schestowitzBut not good for the siteMay 21 19:28
schestowitzLike ASP-powerd Linux sitesMay 21 19:28
schestowitzThe shills made fun of LinuxWorld running on WindersMay 21 19:28
schestowitzBUTMay 21 19:28
ReverseGTRschestowitz: did you hear that Nvidia's CEO is raising a ruccus on Intel for selling their Atom chipsets at a much cheaper price then standalone as it woud be with the Ion platform?May 21 19:28
schestowitzIt's frigging IDGMay 21 19:28
schestowitzOf course they are in the Microsoft pocketsMay 21 19:28
schestowitzLinuxWorls was never about LinuxMay 21 19:28
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schestowitzIt's about IDG looking to make cashMay 21 19:28
schestowitzAnd boosting MS with studies (IDC)May 21 19:29
ReverseGTRLinuxWorld is about mocking LinuxMay 21 19:29
schestowitzIt's not a real siteMay 21 19:29
schestowitzThey just toss IDG News/World Service articles getting tossed in there if it's FOSS-relatedMay 21 19:29
schestowitzIDG has many sitesMay 21 19:29
schestowitzLots of overlap between themMay 21 19:30
schestowitzBy themeMay 21 19:30
schestowitzReverseGTR: any link?May 21 19:30
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schestowitzIf an article is about Microsoft, Networks and Linux, then IDG sends it to PCWorld, LinuxWorld, and NetworkWorldMay 21 19:30
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*DaemonFC wonder's when AOL is going to get sick of losing money on Winamp and fire everyoneMay 21 19:31
ReverseGTR@schestowitz: sorry I didn't get to read your last message because I was running this AROS emulation through Qemu, and it crashedMay 21 19:31
schestowitzU.S. National Archives offers reward for missing hard drive < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10246004-83.html >May 21 19:31
schestowitz<schestowitz> If an article is about Microsoft, Networks and Linux, then IDG sends it to PCWorld, LinuxWorld, and NetworkWorldMay 21 19:31
DaemonFCbut I've been wondering that for 8 years nowMay 21 19:31
balzacDaemonFC: what's your distro?May 21 19:32
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137416/gps-threatened-satellite-failures (GPS system threatened by satellite failures )May 21 19:32
balzacIs that an uncomfortable question?May 21 19:32
schestowitzHe has Mandriva somewhereMay 21 19:32
schestowitzBut he likes ranting about LinuxMay 21 19:32
schestowitzNot booting much into itMay 21 19:32
balzacoddMay 21 19:32
ReverseGTR@schestowitz: whats the European initiative for a GPS like system called?May 21 19:33
balzacwasn't he really bent out of shape about Bill Gates not long ago?May 21 19:33
schestowitzFBI Use of Patriot Act Authority Increased Dramatically in 2008 < http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/05/fbi-use-of-patriot-act-authority-increased-dramatically-in-2008/ >May 21 19:33
DaemonFCMandriva on other partition currently, I could have used Ext3 and given Windows access to isMay 21 19:33
ReverseGTRand I think the Chinese are also planning to launch their ownMay 21 19:33
DaemonFCbut then anything that infects Windows could damage that partition tooMay 21 19:33
schestowitzReverseGTR: is there one?May 21 19:33
schestowitzThey want ICANN-like control nowMay 21 19:33
balzacDaemonFC: are you using windows right now?May 21 19:33
schestowitzCHina could fork out tooMay 21 19:33
schestowitzSo massiveMay 21 19:33
schestowitzAnd they have their own stds and patentsMay 21 19:34
ReverseGTR@schestowitz: great China wants to create even more of a giant AOHellMay 21 19:34
schestowitzReverseGTR: hehMay 21 19:34
schestowitzBeat me to itMay 21 19:34
schestowitzJust caught your remark on ChinaMay 21 19:34
schestowitzSo yes, I was going to bring up China independentlyMay 21 19:34
schestowitzThey have some plans to be independent May 21 19:34
schestowitzNext superpower and allMay 21 19:34
schestowitzThey can't depend on USian Net and patentsMay 21 19:35
schestowitzAlso, Google thought about Dark WebMay 21 19:35
schestowitzBack in the days. Some Cringely speculations about it can be reminisced.May 21 19:35
balzacIs DaemonFC usually like this?May 21 19:35
schestowitzbalzac: yes, he annoys some people hereMay 21 19:35
balzacNot very conversationalMay 21 19:35
schestowitzDaemonFC: less Windows talk May 21 19:35
balzacwell, I'm curious for other reasonsMay 21 19:35
schestowitzWHy?May 21 19:36
balzacI don't care if someone is annoyingMay 21 19:36
schestowitzHe got kicked the first day he came hereMay 21 19:36
schestowitzBut later he didn't behave too badlyMay 21 19:36
schestowitz:=_May 21 19:36
DaemonFCCringely is more than one personMay 21 19:36
DaemonFCit's just a pen nameMay 21 19:36
schestowitzNot the real oneMay 21 19:36
balzacWell, you never know if you're talking to some angsty teen, or a weasel from a Microsoft-sponsored "reputation management" agencyMay 21 19:36
schestowitzMark is the real oneMay 21 19:36
ReverseGTR@schestowitz: stop the presses M$ actually lost a patent case in the US: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE54J72V20090520May 21 19:37
schestowitzYes, old to me..May 21 19:37
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137423/microsoft-guilty-patent-infringement http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i3kPIjCUTixWVMkOTpPSwO-4NtTQMay 21 19:37
DaemonFCUnilocMay 21 19:37
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/21/microsoft-hit-with-patent-infringement http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/21/microsoft_word_patent_damages/May 21 19:37
schestowitzAmond moreMay 21 19:37
schestowitz*mongMay 21 19:38
balzacRoy, I began to wonder because some participants here seemed to all about creating heat, but not shedding light.May 21 19:38
schestowitzThere was a seattle dudeMay 21 19:38
schestowitzCame here to promote Windows and allMay 21 19:38
schestowitz[H]omer wanted to ban himMay 21 19:38
schestowitzBuzz marketing it's calledMay 21 19:38
balzacTwo guys said something violent about Microsoft execs, and I immediately wondered if they were provocateurs whose purpose was to undermine the credibility of your work.May 21 19:38
balzacthat's just how my "pragmatic paranoia" worksMay 21 19:39
schestowitzCommentary: Whole-body imaging invades privacy < http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/19/chaffetz.iraq/index.html > Well, rectal examination invades... well...May 21 19:39
schestowitzbalzac: what violent thing?May 21 19:39
schestowitzSome people use "twitter" (the Slashdot user) to vilify this siteMay 21 19:40
schestowitzHaving viciously attacked him in a groupwise fashion in /.May 21 19:40
schestowitzA lot of people on the Net attack critics of MSMay 21 19:40
schestowitzPJ tooMay 21 19:40
schestowitzLet me show you something newMay 21 19:40
balzacyeah, well they haven't said anything like that since I called them out on itMay 21 19:40
schestowitzhttp://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2009/05/lundork.htmlMay 21 19:40
schestowitzBeebe Attacks PJ... (just a warning)May 21 19:41
balzacbut I even left a political forum because someone was making cartoons about illegal violence towards Bush and CheneyMay 21 19:41
schestowitzShe says: "hahahahaMay 21 19:41
schestowitzThen need some new material.   Is there a real Beebe or it is, as itMay 21 19:41
schestowitzsounds, another nym for Dan Lyons?  Do you know?"May 21 19:41
balzacI draw a fat clear line when people mention violenceMay 21 19:41
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schestowitzWho made threats?May 21 19:41
schestowitzbalzac: where?May 21 19:41
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balzacEvery time I wrote of capital punishment for Bush, it was hanging after due process of lawMay 21 19:42
balzacI never mentioned any illegal violenceMay 21 19:42
schestowitzI know MinceR joking used his "die in a fire" phrase a few times, but that's more of a stand-up comedy thing in my eyesMay 21 19:42
balzacso I left a forum over itMay 21 19:42
balzacwell, they have apparently understood the seriousness of itMay 21 19:42
schestowitzA lot of people say that Dick and George need waterbaordingMay 21 19:43
schestowitzit's not violenceMay 21 19:43
DaemonFCYou're right balzac: I'm with MS Marketing, we hate Zune, Internet Explorer, and several other things quite particularlyMay 21 19:43
balzacyeah, that was my big sloganMay 21 19:43
DaemonFCand we want everyone to hate them as badly as us :PMay 21 19:43
schestowitzIt's "intense interrogation"May 21 19:43
schestowitzor extereme.. rendition if you will.May 21 19:43
balzacI was saying "waterboard bush" back in 2006May 21 19:43
schestowitzWill the lady like a rendition and a cupa tea, me lord?"May 21 19:44
DaemonFCthe jackass that decided to ship the XBOX 360 should be waterboarded 187 timesMay 21 19:44
balzacbut that's ironicMay 21 19:44
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schestowitzbalzac: that's not vioolence to themMay 21 19:44
schestowitzThey brag about how waterboarding is all safeMay 21 19:44
schestowitzBTW, does that not violate Geneva conventions?May 21 19:44
schestowitz(not that the US ever obey these)May 21 19:44
DaemonFCwell unfortunately our new boss is more like the old boss every dayMay 21 19:45
balzacschestowitz: you're here not under a pseudonymMay 21 19:45
DaemonFChe went from being a liberal icon to a conservative selloutMay 21 19:45
DaemonFCin onlt 5 monthsMay 21 19:45
balzacI'm happy to share my personal identityMay 21 19:45
DaemonFC*onlyMay 21 19:45
schestowitzWho?May 21 19:45
schestowitzOBAMAA?May 21 19:45
DaemonFCObamaMay 21 19:45
schestowitzYeahMay 21 19:45
balzacbut I'm concerned about the guys who say the most provocative things, yet remain anonymousMay 21 19:45
schestowitzHe makes me laughMay 21 19:45
schestowitzThe Seinfeld of our timeMay 21 19:46
schestowitzLooking up at the crowdMay 21 19:46
schestowitzKind of arrogant IMHOMay 21 19:46
DaemonFCI'm extremely disappointed that I bought into that and voted for him, but really it's not like McCain was any betterMay 21 19:46
DaemonFCI wasted a half hour of my life bothering to make a decisionMay 21 19:46
balzacI just got justifiably paranoid that there might be provocateurs in hereMay 21 19:46
schestowitzEven Bush seemed more modest when he spokeMay 21 19:46
balzacconsidering all the heckling you getMay 21 19:46
schestowitzVoting for the busienss party=lost voteMay 21 19:46
schestowitzThe same junkers take over the houseMay 21 19:47
DaemonFCmehMay 21 19:47
schestowitzPeople like Rahn EmmanuelMay 21 19:47
schestowitzneo-fascistsMay 21 19:47
DaemonFCnow he's supposedly ended the tortureMay 21 19:47
schestowitz*RahmMay 21 19:47
DaemonFCbut who knowsMay 21 19:47
DaemonFCthey may just be hiding it betterMay 21 19:47
schestowitzThey already doMay 21 19:47
DaemonFCthan in any event, he doesn't want to bring the Bushies to justiceMay 21 19:47
schestowitzYou haven't heard?May 21 19:47
DaemonFC*thenMay 21 19:48
schestowitzInstead of OBAMA sentencing Bush toprison he destroys evvidenceMay 21 19:48
schestowitzIOW, he covers his backMay 21 19:48
schestowitzKissinger of our times...May 21 19:48
schestowitzRMS wrote about it, others did tooMay 21 19:48
schestowitzSame with Clinton datMay 21 19:48
schestowitz*dataMay 21 19:48
balzacWe'll see what happensMay 21 19:49
DaemonFCunfortunatelyMay 21 19:49
schestowitzThose who don't learn from history are doomed to shred itMay 21 19:49
DaemonFCnot like it's going to be stoppedMay 21 19:49
balzacUltimately, Obama doesn't want to initiate it too proactivelyMay 21 19:49
DaemonFCwhatever they have in mindMay 21 19:49
balzacbut he has plenty of time to do itMay 21 19:49
schestowitzHe has 3 kidsMay 21 19:49
schestowitz2May 21 19:49
schestowitz2?May 21 19:49
DaemonFC2May 21 19:49
balzacif time starts running short, I'll be putting pressure on.May 21 19:49
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schestowitzHockey Mom(R) has 5May 21 19:50
schestowitzOne of whom with disabilityMay 21 19:50
schestowitzWhich Amazing Atheist said something quite correct about..May 21 19:50
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schestowitzNational Archives Breach Includes Clinton-Era Data < http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/National-Archives-Breach-Includes-Clinton-Era-Data-440722/ >May 21 19:50
DaemonFCand that was?May 21 19:51
schestowitzBarbarism is an ugly word... The Solipsist and the Internet (a Review of Helprin's Digital Barbarism) < http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-lessig/the-solipsist-and-the-int_b_206021.html >May 21 19:51
schestowitzDaemonFC: looks it up, hold on.May 21 19:51
DaemonFCthost kids can't help who their mom isMay 21 19:51
DaemonFCyou have to feel sorry for her using them as pawns in her political ambitionsMay 21 19:51
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=135SdtFzV2U&feature=relatedMay 21 19:52
schestowitzHow to Make Your Client Look Bad, in Three Easy Steps < http://www.citmedialaw.org/blog/2009/how-make-your-client-look-bad-three-easy-steps >May 21 19:54
schestowitzOpenMoko still alive and well: http://www.h-online.com/open/Openmoko-involves-the-community-in-hardware-development--/news/113328May 21 19:56
DaemonFCGlenn Beck should be shotMay 21 19:59
DaemonFChe's like the douchest douche Republican right behind Rush LimbaughMay 21 19:59
balzacDaemonFC: you're wrongMay 21 20:01
balzacHe should be confronted, and if he throws the first punch, he should be beaten like a drum by the guy he swings onMay 21 20:01
balzacI'd be happy to confront him personally and directlyMay 21 20:01
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balzacbut you're an agent provocateur if you say such crap as you just saidMay 21 20:02
balzacand you should be bannedMay 21 20:02
balzacalso, you're hiding behind a pseudonymMay 21 20:02
balzacwhere as I share my identity, and comment responsiblyMay 21 20:02
balzacRoy, you should dump that troll. don't be sentimental.May 21 20:03
balzacthat's a serious transgression against your channel's purposeMay 21 20:03
balzacand a bad distraction tooMay 21 20:04
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schestowitzwb, malroyMay 21 20:06
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chips_b_malroythanks RoyMay 21 20:06
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schestowitzbalzac: he didn't mean that (I hope)May 21 20:07
chips_b_malroyRoy in one of the articles you link to, there was a comment by a user slickeditMay 21 20:07
schestowitzWhich one..?May 21 20:07
chips_b_malroy@slickuser  "open vmmreg32.dll in hex editor. The resource section says Windows Vista SP3!"May 21 20:07
DaemonFCyeahMay 21 20:07
DaemonFCthere will most likely be an SP3May 21 20:08
DaemonFCaround 2011May 21 20:08
chips_b_malroythis for Windows Seven, since I do not run Seven or Vista I cannot comtirm thisMay 21 20:08
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DaemonFCMicrosoft actually has a policy for when service packs are released, and they have to release one after every so many standalone hotfixesMay 21 20:08
DaemonFCas long as the product is within mainstream supportMay 21 20:09
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DaemonFCit's not out of mainstream support til the middle of 2012May 21 20:09
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DaemonFCso there will probably be one more service packMay 21 20:09
schestowitzDaemonFC: after that remark of yours consider yourself warnedMay 21 20:09
schestowitzYou're aggravatingMay 21 20:09
MinceRschestowitz: "die in a fire" isn't a threat, it's a request :>May 21 20:09
chips_b_malroythe comment by slickedit was in this link  http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10242555-64.htmlMay 21 20:09
DaemonFCwarned about what?May 21 20:10
chips_b_malroythe point being that that a component of Windows Seven reports it as Vista SP3May 21 20:10
DaemonFCwhy is that odd?May 21 20:10
DaemonFCit wouldn't be the first timeMay 21 20:10
DaemonFCmost test build still have files that identify as the last versionMay 21 20:11
chips_b_malroyits useful to point out that is what seven is, vista, as further proofMay 21 20:11
chips_b_malroytrueMay 21 20:11
DaemonFCin fact it could be meant that way for backwards compatibility with somethingMay 21 20:11
chips_b_malroyI figured if anyone had the Seven RC and could confirm that it would be you DaemonFCMay 21 20:12
DaemonFCNo I'm not running thatMay 21 20:13
DaemonFCIt's incompatible with several things I useMay 21 20:13
schestowitzDaemonFC: please replyMay 21 20:13
DaemonFCand it will start shutting down every 2 hours in MarchMay 21 20:13
balzacThe point is that you guys who don't use your real identities are the ones saying the things which are not appropriateMay 21 20:14
balzacRoy has a reputation to protectMay 21 20:14
DaemonFCSo go formulate some ideas about me as regards to my masters in the Illuminati or whateverMay 21 20:15
DaemonFCmmmk?May 21 20:15
DaemonFCthey're amusingMay 21 20:15
balzacDaemonFC: don't act like you don't care about the reputation of this channelMay 21 20:15
balzacyou just took a crap on Roy's carpetMay 21 20:15
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DaemonFCNo, I missed youMay 21 20:16
DaemonFC:PMay 21 20:16
balzacRoy works hard collecting and disseminating important information which is a serviceMay 21 20:16
DaemonFCright well, I'm adding you to my ignore list, you can be <Anon> all you wantMay 21 20:17
balzacand his work deserves respect, not to be discredited by irresponsible commentary which serves no purpose except to harm the reputation of this channelMay 21 20:17
schestowitzJournalists spread FUD to keep them fed: http://techdirt.com/articles/20090520/0338464948.shtmlMay 21 20:18
schestowitzDaemonFC: change nym pleaseMay 21 20:18
schestowitzIf you're going to spout this stuff outMay 21 20:19
schestowitzRyan <what>May 21 20:19
schestowitzThat will at least force you to be decentMay 21 20:19
DaemonFClike it ever hasMay 21 20:19
schestowitzLet's try itMay 21 20:19
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schestowitzElse it's your last chance with this nymMay 21 20:19
schestowitzVapourware arrive late, but why? "Vista SP2: Microsoft to push via Windows Update in 'the coming weeks'" < http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2841 >May 21 20:21
schestowitzVista7 is SP2, as well.May 21 20:21
DaemonFCalready have itMay 21 20:21
schestowitz*arrivesMay 21 20:21
DaemonFCWIndows 7 display drivers work with itMay 21 20:21
DaemonFCI found that funnyMay 21 20:21
schestowitzWages stagnant (going down in the US considering inflation): http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.php/3821106/May 21 20:24
DaemonFCyeah, the Republicans will swear it's because minimum wage went up $2.35 an hourMay 21 20:25
DaemonFCI don't see any of them living on that thoughMay 21 20:25
DaemonFCthey always find a way to blame the poorest and most vulnerable people in societyMay 21 20:25
DaemonFCanyway, I still need to call those people and see what stupid things I can get them to say for my Youtube channelMay 21 20:27
DaemonFCback in a fewMay 21 20:29
schestowitzResearchers Claim 1.6TB of Data on DVD < http://www.internetnews.com/breakingnews/article.php/3821536/ >May 21 20:32
schestowitz"We believe Linux is the right OS for the entire architecture," McHugh said < http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/05/nortel-choses-linux-for-250-mi.html >May 21 20:33
trmancohttp://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=windows_and_linux_pcs&articleId=9133381&taxonomyId=64&intsrc=kc_featMay 21 20:35
DaemonFClooks like I can't call AcerMay 21 20:40
DaemonFCtheir thing demands a serial number or it hangs upMay 21 20:40
schestowitz"OpenSSH 5.2 was released in February already which has builtin countermeasures against this form of "attack." Next." http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdotLinux/~3/d5lc5cyPwCs/article.plMay 21 20:41
schestowitzWhat is /. DOING?May 21 20:41
Balrog_Call corporate HQ thenMay 21 20:41
DaemonFCschestowitz: That would be a holographic discMay 21 20:41
schestowitzPassing old news..May 21 20:41
schestowitztrmanco: yuck. "Shane O'Neill "May 21 20:41
schestowitzAnd it's old newsMay 21 20:41
DaemonFCI think Blue Ray and HD-DVD were both basically pointlessMay 21 20:42
DaemonFCMPEG-4 could have stored HD movies on a normal DVDMay 21 20:42
trmancohehMay 21 20:42
schestowitzKeith Curtis keeps pushing the same story into the news to have people d/l his bokMay 21 20:42
schestowitzWe mailed a few timesMay 21 20:42
trmancoah, I seeMay 21 20:42
DaemonFCthey wouldn't have had to get rid of any manufacturing equipmentMay 21 20:42
schestowitzHe mailed me when I mentioned his book in BNMay 21 20:42
DaemonFCit was all about the DRMMay 21 20:42
schestowitzHe wants publicityMay 21 20:42
DaemonFCI've been getting some nasty feedback over my view on Internet Explorer, like I ran over their mother or somethingMay 21 20:43
DaemonFCI even put up a whole new article jsut to debunk one commentMay 21 20:43
schestowitztrmanco: just two MSFTersMay 21 20:43
schestowitzPRMay 21 20:44
schestowitzLike this which I got after yesterday's postMay 21 20:44
schestowitz"Hi Roy –May 21 20:44
schestowitz May 21 20:44
schestowitzI’m Bluenog’s PR rep. and I wanted to let you know they caught your shout-out to their disruptive technology and appreciate your attitude.May 21 20:44
schestowitz May 21 20:44
schestowitzLet me know if you’d ever be interested in a chat with Suresh, their CEO, he is always good for a chin-wag on commercial open source and other topics."May 21 20:44
schestowitzThey look for a mention, that's all.May 21 20:44
schestowitz"AAI Hails European Commission's Guilty Ruling in Intel Case"May 21 20:46
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DaemonFCa RAID array of floppy discs?May 21 20:48
DaemonFCuhhhm okMay 21 20:48
DaemonFChttp://ohlssonvox.8k.com/fdd_raid.htmMay 21 20:48
schestowitz"I got a new unibody MacBook today, and for the first time ever, getting a new Mac hasn’t left me happy. Dear Apple: Please bring back either FireWire target mode or a replacement that, you know, works." http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2009/05/19/Bad-Mac-DayMay 21 20:49
schestowitzApple -- even its biggest fans keep complainingMay 21 20:49
DaemonFCI don't know whyMay 21 20:49
DaemonFCPC just gets Apple leftoversMay 21 20:49
DaemonFCFirewire is the best exampleMay 21 20:49
DaemonFCwell, aside fomr VistaMay 21 20:49
DaemonFCOh joy, ethernetMay 21 20:51
DaemonFCwell, maybe if both Macs have gigabitMay 21 20:51
DaemonFC10/100 would take all day I'm sureMay 21 20:51
DaemonFCsounds like the network settings are screwed up somehowMay 21 20:52
DaemonFCThat's usually the point of failure for Windows or Mac because they tried to turn something insanely complicated into a set od one-click solutions, which are nice on the rare event they workMay 21 20:53
DaemonFCRepair Network Connection is a stack of stuff that would be the first things you'd try on any OSMay 21 20:54
DaemonFCLinux is getting better with that largely due to Fedora's network manager workMay 21 20:55
schestowitzGoogling to Newspaper Solvency < http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20090521055258877 >May 21 20:57
schestowitzOld newspapers deserve to die outMay 21 20:57
schestowitzAnd fake blogs be eliminated for pretending to be people (AstroTurf)May 21 20:57
DaemonFCit occurs to me that Microsoft still has the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard, it's never been a great idea to use it thoughMay 21 20:58
schestowitzIt's really hard. Two sides, big and small, acting as shills out thereMay 21 20:58
DaemonFCthe Mac version probably works cause there's no registryMay 21 20:58
DaemonFCI may just send Acer an email and post a copy to my blogMay 21 20:59
DaemonFCschestowitz: These places make it so hard to contact them....May 21 21:01
DaemonFCunless you've alreayd bought something and it's in warrantyMay 21 21:01
DaemonFCthen maybe not even that :)May 21 21:01
DaemonFCI'd probably just get another cheeky first line support monkey sitting behind his WinTerm telling me what the piece of crap was doing was appropriate cause Microsoft said so.....been thereMay 21 21:02
schestowitzhttp://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/05/acer-tells-kids-charity-pay-up-or-shut.html (Acer Tells Kid's Charity - Pay Up or Shut Up)May 21 21:03
DaemonFCI posted that earlierMay 21 21:03
DaemonFCit's what I've been so pissed aboutMay 21 21:03
schestowitzI know..May 21 21:03
DaemonFCwrt AcerMay 21 21:03
DaemonFCI hate it when they pull this crap then say it's OK because Microsoft said soMay 21 21:04
neonflossyou hear about wikipedia community voting 75% in favour of CC lisence?May 21 21:04
DaemonFCdoesn't surprise meMay 21 21:04
DaemonFCShare Alike or Share Alike Non Commercial?May 21 21:04
trmancohttp://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease32May 21 21:05
trmancohttp://qa.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?issue_type=ENHANCEMENT&issue_type=FEATURE&target_milestone=OOo+3.2&email1=&emailtype1=exact&emailassigned_to1=1&email2=&emailtype2=exact&emailreporter2=1&issueidtype=include&issue_id=&changedin=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=&chfieldvalue=&short_desc=&short_desc_type=allwords&long_desc=&long_desc_type=allwords&issue_file_loc=&issue_file_loc_type=fulltext&status_whiteboard=&status_whiteboard_type=fulltexMay 21 21:05
trmancot&keywords=&keywords_type=anytokens&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&Submit+query=Submit+queryMay 21 21:05
trmancooopsMay 21 21:05
trmancohude linkMay 21 21:05
trmancohuge*May 21 21:06
DaemonFCdamnMay 21 21:06
trmancohttp://is.gd/C820May 21 21:06
trmancohaMay 21 21:06
trmancoit's tiny nowMay 21 21:06
trmancoWe made your URL 97% (585 characters) shorter!May 21 21:06
DaemonFCschestowitz: The final build of Vista SP2 is not over a month oldMay 21 21:08
DaemonFCand still no commentMay 21 21:08
DaemonFCthat woman has a good pointMay 21 21:08
DaemonFCWhat the hell? :PMay 21 21:08
DaemonFCI'm still leaning to my explanationMay 21 21:09
neonflossDaemonFC, http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/May 21 21:10
neonflossshare alike, attributionMay 21 21:11
DaemonFCso basically like a BSD with advertisingMay 21 21:11
DaemonFCfor documentation thoughMay 21 21:11
DaemonFCmakes senseMay 21 21:11
DaemonFCI have a FreeBSD boxMay 21 21:12
DaemonFCall kinds of stableMay 21 21:12
DaemonFCcome to think of itMay 21 21:12
DaemonFCyeah, still running :)May 21 21:12
DaemonFCheheMay 21 21:12
neonflosshehMay 21 21:13
neonflossim happy about the voteMay 21 21:13
DaemonFCthey could have licensed it BSDMay 21 21:13
neonflossbetter licensing and it will bring more attention to creative commonsMay 21 21:13
DaemonFCbut CC is trendier and will be better attention whoringMay 21 21:13
DaemonFCin headlinesMay 21 21:13
DaemonFCI used BSD with advertising clause the last time I put anything togetherMay 21 21:14
neonflossDaemonFC, CC is more appropriate imoMay 21 21:14
neonflossBSD is more appropriate for software and tis documentationMay 21 21:14
neonflossit would workMay 21 21:15
DaemonFChow is this any different?May 21 21:15
DaemonFCyou still need your own lawyers to enforce itMay 21 21:15
DaemonFCeither wayMay 21 21:15
DaemonFC:)May 21 21:15
neonfloss:)May 21 21:15
DaemonFCthey chose CC for the nameMay 21 21:15
neonflossDaemonFC, it hasnt been changedMay 21 21:15
neonflossthe board has to approve itMay 21 21:15
neonflossit was just a community-wide voteMay 21 21:15
DaemonFCCreative Commons is like a really dumbed down BSDMay 21 21:15
DaemonFCusing pictogramsMay 21 21:15
DaemonFCLolMay 21 21:16
DaemonFCyeah, nothing like a good ballot box stuffingMay 21 21:16
DaemonFCis there?May 21 21:16
DaemonFCdisclaimer: I don't know if that happened, it was a jokeMay 21 21:16
neonflossDaemonFC, not dumbed down -  legal text remains legal text - its just easier to understand for average person. and its more appropriate because afaik bsd is meant more for software related thingsMay 21 21:17
DaemonFCbut whenever these projects say "We took a vote" you can't help to wonderMay 21 21:17
neonflosswonder about waht?May 21 21:17
DaemonFCthat doesn't matterMay 21 21:17
DaemonFCyou can use software licensing for music or literatureMay 21 21:17
neonflossDaemonFC, it does matterMay 21 21:17
DaemonFCit may not make as much sense but it is enforceableMay 21 21:18
neonflossmaking sense is importantMay 21 21:18
neonflossCC is clearer to average person in this contextMay 21 21:18
DaemonFCwell, they call is something else, but it still means the same as the 20-ish year old BSD licenseMay 21 21:19
DaemonFC*itMay 21 21:19
DaemonFCthey tweaked the legalese a bitMay 21 21:19
DaemonFCthere's too many licensesMay 21 21:19
DaemonFCI call for an end to pointless license proliferationMay 21 21:19
DaemonFC:)May 21 21:19
DaemonFCif someone says "It's BSD licensed" or "It's GPL 2", you know what you can do with it alreadyMay 21 21:20
DaemonFCbut then you have the MPL, the NPL, the CDDL, the zlib license, the Creative Commons stuffMay 21 21:20
neonflossDaemonFC, its not a question of what works. its a question of what is more appropriate, and betterMay 21 21:21
neonflossnot legallyMay 21 21:21
DaemonFCI mean I basically agree that anyone should license their stuff however they want, but it's just bullshit that there's 10 licenses that do the same thingMay 21 21:21
DaemonFCentire categories of themMay 21 21:21
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neonflossjust as with everythingMay 21 21:21
DaemonFCmehMay 21 21:22
schestowitzMicrosoft Bans Memcopy() < http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/05/microsoft_bans.html >May 21 21:22
DaemonFCWHAT!?May 21 21:22
MinceRi have my doubts about simply forcing them to give a second sizeMay 21 21:23
DaemonFCmehMay 21 21:24
DaemonFClooks like they're doing this to help get rid of worms and shitMay 21 21:24
DaemonFCif that's all it is, more power to themMay 21 21:25
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DaemonFCwell, if you can get rid of something deprecated that's cauing all kinds of security problemsMay 21 21:26
DaemonFCit's good practices to get rid of itMay 21 21:26
DaemonFCno matter what the programMay 21 21:26
DaemonFCbut then Microsoft has their double entendre about the word "Security"May 21 21:27
DaemonFCsometimes it means worms and shit, sometimes it means "This is undermining our DRM"May 21 21:27
DaemonFC:PMay 21 21:27
MinceRthey don't know anything about security anywayMay 21 21:27
schestowitzThey knowMay 21 21:28
schestowitz[that it sucks big time]May 21 21:28
schestowitzThey said they would sort it out... for a like a decade. it's still a mess.May 21 21:28
schestowitzVista7 security got totally breached like 5 major times so far. And it's NOT EVEN released. Talk about 'high market share' as reason for exploits...May 21 21:29
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schestowitzAcer and Linux for a change: http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/smartphones/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217600479&subSection=NewsMay 21 21:39
schestowitzBilski:  don't talk about Bill skiingMay 21 21:40
MinceR:DMay 21 21:44
MinceRnot gnu thoughMay 21 21:45
schestowitzheh. Avner (Live Novell # 1-2 2009 Releasefest) < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obHL71TK91Q > (new)May 21 21:47
taconethis guy is a genius http://www.sharms.org/blog/2009/05/21/python-rpm/May 21 22:06
taconeno wonder he eates mono fud as breakfastMay 21 22:06
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schestowitzI just got some Mandriva updatesMay 21 22:14
schestowitzThey came with notes (and grammar mistakes ;-) )May 21 22:14
schestowitzAlanW ain't there to catch the bad EnglishMay 21 22:14
_Hicham_Mandriva is frenchMay 21 22:14
_Hicham_so it is normal to have some english mistakes on itMay 21 22:15
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DaemonFCWindows X64 is an even bigger clusterfuckMay 21 22:18
DaemonFCbecause now you need to have 32-bit and 64-bit PERL and PythonMay 21 22:18
DaemonFC:)May 21 22:18
DaemonFCand many other thingsMay 21 22:18
DaemonFCthat could be another reason they want all that stuff running through .NetMay 21 22:20
DaemonFCbusiness customers complaining about duplication of every runtimeMay 21 22:20
schestowitzGood lad: Open Source Developer Intends To Block Belgian Government From Using His Technology Over Tax Dispute < http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/20/open-source-developer-intends-to-block-belgian-government-from-using-his-technology-over-tax-dispute/ >May 21 22:20
DaemonFCsounds like he's being a whiney bitch over itMay 21 22:23
DaemonFCand will probably just hurt real peopleMay 21 22:23
DaemonFCdoes he even know if his government is using it?May 21 22:23
DaemonFCwill the license change prompt a fork or for distros to drop it?May 21 22:23
DaemonFCAnd some of the people in the comments are even more ridiculousMay 21 22:25
DaemonFC"Is adSense revenue not taxable income? I’m Belgian too, and I’d really like to know…"May 21 22:26
DaemonFCthen some other guy says....May 21 22:26
DaemonFC"Not in the US - Federal law bans all Internet taxes until 2012, I believe."May 21 22:26
DaemonFCWRONGMay 21 22:26
DaemonFCthat's still incomeMay 21 22:26
DaemonFCGoogle wants your tax info when you sign up because if they pay you more than $600 in a tax year, they have to immediately report it to the IRSMay 21 22:26
DaemonFCand send you a form 1099May 21 22:26
DaemonFC:DMay 21 22:26
Balrog_                     http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/20/open-source-developer-intends-to-block-belgian-government-from-using-his-technology-over-tax-dispute/ >May 21 22:27
Balrog_sorry :/May 21 22:27
schestowitzFreeswitch adds blobs... :-( http://blogs.zdnet.com/Greenfield/?p=353May 21 22:27
DaemonFCif you make less than $600, you still have to report it as misc. incomeMay 21 22:27
taconepft. discrimination, so not anymore opensource softwareMay 21 22:27
DaemonFCI cashed out $599.99 all at once to get out of the instant IRS notificationMay 21 22:28
DaemonFCthen "forgot" to declare itMay 21 22:28
DaemonFC:)May 21 22:28
DaemonFCfunny how my memory is sometimesMay 21 22:28
DaemonFC:DMay 21 22:28
DaemonFCthat was a few years agoMay 21 22:28
taconeDaemonFC: when you were under 18, right ;-)May 21 22:28
DaemonFChmmmmmmmmmmmmMay 21 22:29
schestowitzIs this thing really open source? Bluenog Does Open Source Right, Nabs Another Award  < http://www.cmswire.com/cms/enterprise-cms/bluenog-does-open-source-right-nabs-another-award-004651.php >May 21 22:29
DaemonFCif you say so........I mean, yes, under 18May 21 22:29
DaemonFC:PMay 21 22:29
schestowitzTheir site makes it seem like proprietary with visible codeMay 21 22:29
schestowitz Bluenog Thinks That Open Source Means Mixing Non-Free Software http://www.esj.com/business_intelligence/article.aspx?EditorialsID=9240May 21 22:31
tessierI sold google ads for a while and they 1099'd me and I hate to pay tax on them.May 21 22:31
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_Hicham_Fedora 11 have been delayed by a weekMay 21 22:34
schestowitzSee  http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Ballmer_on_cloud_computing_45669867.html Would it be possible to this video without Novell's patent garbage?May 21 22:34
_Hicham_due to some remaining bugsMay 21 22:34
_Hicham_schestowitz is a patent garbage collectorMay 21 22:35
schestowitzNoMay 21 22:35
schestowitzI leak itMay 21 22:35
_Hicham_I was talking about garbage collectors in programming languagesMay 21 22:36
_Hicham_garbage collectors in fact, clear the garbageMay 21 22:36
_Hicham_not collect itMay 21 22:36
_Hicham_that is what i meantMay 21 22:37
_Hicham_you are trying to clear the patents garbageMay 21 22:37
_Hicham_so, technically, that makes u a garbage collectorMay 21 22:37
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schestowitzI know what garbage collection is. So I joked about leaking the memory :-pMay 21 22:38
schestowitzUbuntu - Embed a Terminal into Your Desktop using Compiz [Howto] < http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/05/ubuntu-embed-terminal-into-you-desktop.html >May 21 22:39
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schestowitzMe to Susan: "Do you really think anyone would DDOS his/her own site? This is more slander from those at Novell/SUSE who try to discredit me. I /never/ claimed the attacks came from Novell and now it's someone in linsux who claims to be behind it."May 21 22:44
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schestowitzI can't believe that some site link to the troll who said I DDOSed BNMay 21 22:44
schestowitzThis is insaneMay 21 22:44
_Hicham_those guys have a lof of imaginationMay 21 22:44
schestowitzWithout linking to it, the guy who claims this seems like some conspiracies nut and white supremacist of some kind. His site is full of this rubbishMay 21 22:45
schestowitz_Hicham_: yes, it's insane, so I mailed Susan to ask why she even linked to itMay 21 22:45
_Hicham_It is freedom palMay 21 22:46
_Hicham_people must know the truth by themselvesMay 21 22:46
schestowitzFSF and Cisco Settle GPL Dispute < http://www.softwarefreedom.org/news/2009/may/20/fsf-cisco-settlement/ >May 21 22:49
schestowitzFSF and Cisco Settle - For Real, This Time < http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090520173819315 >May 21 22:49
schestowitzMission accomplishedMay 21 22:49
taconeschestowitz: yes, i don't know if commenting on that blogMay 21 22:50
taconea guy came to comment my post about the ddosMay 21 22:50
taconeand said plainly that guy's post was rubbishMay 21 22:50
taconehttp://www.stefanoforenza.com/lost-in-paris-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-34000May 21 22:50
comradekingulinksys products? I thought it was only cisco stuff? What devices are now suddenly covered under the gpl?May 21 22:52
schestowitztacone: whose post?May 21 22:57
schestowitzOhMay 21 22:57
schestowitzLet me read the commentMay 21 22:57
taconeit's a short comment. but i guess some people actually realize it's a pointless basherMay 21 22:58
schestowitz"asked if he can prove that DDOS was self inflicted; answer was “I can’t.”"May 21 22:58
schestowitzWell, SJVN saw the logs for himself (a sample)May 21 22:59
taconetruth is actually added that he could not believe the numbersMay 21 22:59
schestowitzHis whole blog post was littered with personal attackMay 21 22:59
schestowitzThey also abused HIM for writing itMay 21 22:59
taconei'd ask him to try 3 request per seconds on his website, then i laugh.May 21 22:59
schestowitzIt's not 3/secMay 21 22:59
schestowitzThat's just the FPMay 21 23:00
taconeyes, i saw his site slowMay 21 23:00
schestowitzBased on that Wikimedia counterMay 21 23:00
schestowitzThat's not even cachesMay 21 23:00
tacone3/sec is enough to make his site fallMay 21 23:00
schestowitzWikipedia serving at that page without browser cache, eitherMay 21 23:00
tacone3 request per secondMay 21 23:01
taconeis 259 200 pageviews a dayMay 21 23:01
taconethen add the pageviews a website normally doesMay 21 23:01
taconethen i laughMay 21 23:01
taconegoing offine, bye !May 21 23:04
schestowitzCyaMay 21 23:04
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_Hicham_supertux-sharpMay 21 23:07
_Hicham_what a shameMay 21 23:07
_Hicham_even the cute tux is gonna be tainted by mono?May 21 23:08
_Hicham_schestowitz : where did they came up with that name?May 21 23:08
schestowitzWho came up with it?May 21 23:09
schestowitz(Ubuntu) Karmic Koala Artwork http://anotherubuntu.blogspot.com/2009/05/karmic-koala-artwork.htmlMay 21 23:11
_Hicham_who came up with mono?May 21 23:12
_Hicham_what was their inspirationMay 21 23:12
_Hicham_?May 21 23:12
_Hicham_do u call this artwork?May 21 23:12
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schestowitzPetoKraus: did you see Is << RHEL5 the new XP? >> < http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/05/20/is-rhel5-the-new-xp/ >May 21 23:17
schestowitzYo, chips_b_malroy May 21 23:18
chips_b_malroyhelloMay 21 23:18
schestowitz_Hicham_: let me find itMay 21 23:18
schestowitzMiguel de Icaza: 'We had some painful experiences with C and C++, and when Microsoft came out with .NET, we said, "Yes! That is what we want."'May 21 23:18
tessier Ex-Microsoftie: Free Software Will Kill RedmondMay 21 23:18
tessierhttp://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/052109-ex-microsoftie-free-software-will-kill.htmlMay 21 23:18
schestowitzMiguel de Icaza: “At Microsoft I learned the truth about ActiveX and COM and I got very interested in it inmediately [sic].”May 21 23:18
tessierIf you haven't seen...May 21 23:18
schestowitztessier: yes, I know the guyMay 21 23:19
tessierschestowitz: Check private msg...May 21 23:19
schestowitzhe messaged me last yearMay 21 23:19
chips_b_malroy    Explosive Rise in Fraud Applications Addressed by Lavasoft Malware Labs   http://www.prweb.com/releases/Lavasoft/WhitePaper/prweb2433424.htmMay 21 23:19
chips_b_malroyNew malware attack detected by Sophos    http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=5EF2A42D-1A64-6A71-CE621F9C339FFE10May 21 23:20
schestowitzbrbMay 21 23:20
chips_b_malroyNetbook comes with factory-sealed malware    http://www.scmagazineus.com/Netbook-comes-with-factory-sealed-malware/article/May 21 23:20
tessierMy wife just bought a new macbook today. Not ideal but at least it isn't windows.May 21 23:21
tessierShe prefers Linux but she can't hassle with the wireless problems.May 21 23:21
chips_b_malroythe netbook article never says windows, but we know, also it states the malware was likely installed by the OEM's when they installed drivers, which means windowsMay 21 23:22
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chips_b_malroyms-watch has now migrated to http://www.simplifypcsolutions.com/  which can also be reached thru http://blogs.eweek.com/  it is "sponsed blog" by Dell, but look at the Vista icon in the upper right corner, so M$ must be a sponser as well.May 21 23:27
chips_b_malroyziff-davis (eweek) seems to have caved in to letting the watched run the showMay 21 23:27
chips_b_malroySwitching My Dad to Linux--Part One   http://www.pcworld.com/article/164721/switching_dad_linux.htmlMay 21 23:29
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chips_b_malroynot sure if you have this one or not       News search  News  News Conficker botnet 'could take Australia offline'  http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,25506428-5014239,00.htmlMay 21 23:30
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chips_b_malroy10 reasons why Linux will oust Windows  http://www.zdnetasia.com/insight/software/0,39044822,62052873,00.htmMay 21 23:31
chips_b_malroyGoblin, I will try to put an topic togeather for your site on "Secure XP" now it isn't, and how its should be released to publicMay 21 23:34
_Goblin:)May 21 23:34
_Goblinit will be most welcomeMay 21 23:34
chips_b_malroyfree free to edit it anyway you like, btw, send by email when doneMay 21 23:35
_Goblingreat.  I wont edit though.May 21 23:35
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chips_b_malroyby "exclusionary deals with Microsoft " I think you mean Novell and the rest of the distro's that signed agreements?May 21 23:40
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schestowitzhttp://www.microsoft-watch.com/May 21 23:41
schestowitzYeah, they just opened a new damMay 21 23:41
schestowitzChanServ: yes, not only thoughMay 21 23:41
schestowitzOEMs tooMay 21 23:41
schestowitzXenSource..May 21 23:41
schestowitzIt's the whole EEE thingMay 21 23:41
schestowitzI have a new example tomorrowMay 21 23:41
schestowitzBlack Duck s/wMay 21 23:41
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chips_b_malroythe OEM's deals done in the back room, and never made public are a way do getting around the settlement in the US DOJ antitrust caseMay 21 23:42
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schestowitzIf you see error page it's because the account is being migratedMay 21 23:44
chips_b_malroyA lot can be found on the type of OEM strong arming M$ did with the OEM's back when it was killing IBM OS/2.  That information is still out there to be harvested.May 21 23:44
schestowitzchips_b_malroy: I will do that soonMay 21 23:45
schestowitzMaybe next monthMay 21 23:45
schestowitzWe have heaps about itMay 21 23:45
schestowitzI have some stories of Ballmer crimes tooMay 21 23:45
schestowitzBut it'll take time to write it upMay 21 23:46
schestowitzWith the court evidence to show itMay 21 23:46
chips_b_malroybefore the DOJ case, OEM's could not release the same model computer, or number, that their windows model did, with one that had another non-OS on it.  Think OS/2 back then, and now Linux today.  Even now, the OEM's will not put the same hardware in their netbooks for each OSMay 21 23:47
schestowitzSame with BeOS and othersMay 21 23:48
schestowitzSimilar tacticsMay 21 23:48
schestowitzViolations of law, settlements, etc.May 21 23:48
chips_b_malroythis is the issue that goes to the heart of MS, the control of pre-installing Windows on OEM computers.  Without this, most users would not pay for windows, and they would declineMay 21 23:49
chips_b_malroy"bundling" of windows on OEM computers is the keyMay 21 23:50
chips_b_malroythe house of cards falls if they cannot do thisMay 21 23:51
schestowitzExcellent new review of gNewSense http://www.raiden.net/articles/review_gnewsense_version_22/May 21 23:54
chips_b_malroyIBM OS/2 may have been its own enemy, but M$ tactics were sure unethical, proven to be illegal by the DOJ, at least with respect to Netscape.  Relevant still to what M$ is doing today, their playbook is still essentially the same as then, only its done more in closed roomsMay 21 23:54
schestowitzchips_b_malroy: yes, MS talks about thisMay 21 23:55
schestowitz"OEMing"May 21 23:55
schestowitzThey know why they do all thisMay 21 23:55
schestowitzthe OEMs are "out delivery people"May 21 23:55
schestowitz*ourMay 21 23:55
chips_b_malroyIf you don't have a "piece of paper" it makes it harder to sue M$May 21 23:55
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chips_b_malroynotice the agreement with Novell, was it ever fully disclosed?May 21 23:56
schestowitzThe Merits of Control-Alt-Backspace, or Geeks vs. Reality  http://www.workswithu.com/2009/05/20/the-merits-of-control-alt-backspace-or-geeks-vs-reality/May 21 23:56
schestowitzchips_b_malroy: never fullyMay 21 23:57
schestowitzAs for piece of paper, BN has lots more to doMay 21 23:57
schestowitzI shall do this later thios yearMay 21 23:57
schestowitzIt will also attract many new readersMay 21 23:57
schestowitzI just have other project that take up my weekendsMay 21 23:57
schestowitz*jectsMay 21 23:57
schestowitzI also need to sort out our WikiMay 21 23:57
chips_b_malroyyes, there are still some OS/2 fanboi's out there, that will be atracked to that type of postingMay 21 23:58
chips_b_malroybut a lot of OS/2 resources have been dieing on the webMay 21 23:58
chips_b_malroySuggestion for new name:   OS and Foss News  (formally Boycott-Novell)May 21 23:59

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