IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 28th, 2009

tacone"By "I have already worked with them to fix one interoperability issue" he means, "I told a bug reporter that I didn't care about the fact that GNote breaks th....May 28 00:00
taconei can't understand the meaning of all thatMay 28 00:00
schestowitzThe company that said it wanted to "piss on Java" to be at the conference now: EEMay 28 00:00
schestowitzIs this the girl called mackenzie?May 28 00:01
schestowitzOhMay 28 00:01
schestowitzI didn't notice poster's name.  Maybe it's herMay 28 00:01
schestowitz9 reasons to switch from Windows to Linux < >May 28 00:02
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yuhongOn Intel and AMD, at the end of, it says thatMay 28 00:06
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yuhong"I'm far less concerned about who pulls ahead while overclocked and far more concerned about AMD's health at the end of all of this. Maybe the right way of looking at this isn't by talking about a 6% performance advantage, but instead talking about whether or not you want there to be a real competitor to Intel in the future. Maybe the Phenom II X4 940 should get the win here just to ensure...May 28 00:06
yuhong...we have an AMD to talk about in a couple of years."May 28 00:06
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_Hicham_Hi All!May 28 00:07
yuhongOn Intel and AMD, at the end of, it says thatMay 28 00:08
yuhong"I'm far less concerned about who pulls ahead while overclocked and far more concerned about AMD's health at the end of all of this. Maybe the right way of looking at this isn't by talking about a 6% performance advantage, but instead talking about whether or not you want there to be a real competitor to Intel in the future. Maybe the Phenom II X4 940 should get the win here just to ensure...May 28 00:08
yuhong...we have an AMD to talk about in a couple of years."May 28 00:08
yuhongConsidering that Intel's crimes has been discussed on BN, I think this would be a good quote.May 28 00:09
yuhongBTW, this is from a review of the Core 2 Quad Q8400.May 28 00:11
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taconeuhmMay 28 00:15
taconeschestowitz: it's jo shield who raised the issue of gnote copyrightMay 28 00:15
taconedid you know ?May 28 00:15
taconehe didn't cited that. he raised that 28 00:16
taconehe claimed he even thought about packaging gnote for ubuntu, then he tried to block it to enter debianMay 28 00:20
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taconeschestowitz: what a flame. i didn't read this special guests: vadi, jo shields and miguelMay 28 00:38
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tessierschestowitz: Yes. Outgoing mail is all configured now.May 28 00:50
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MinceRgnMay 28 01:08
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taconeschestowitz: this is the bug mackenzie was talking about 28 01:32
taconeseems like the thing was over hyped by directhexMay 28 01:33
taconegnote could handle both formats, tomboy couldn't. sandy was kind enough to fix the tomboy bug and hub even thanked her.May 28 01:35
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_Hicham_Hi All!May 28 01:53
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neighborlee_tacone, hadn't heard of that what way had he hyped it exactlyMay 28 02:19
taconeneighborlee_: ?May 28 02:25
taconeohMay 28 02:26
taconewell, he just reported a part of the response of hubMay 28 02:26
taconehub said gnote was using glib to handle the ISO date format standardMay 28 02:26
taconeand didn't say sandy admitted that tomboy crashing is a tomboy's bug.May 28 02:27
taconehub didn't say anything about agreeing a common xml format, that's true anyway.May 28 02:27
taconebut he even thanked sandy for fixing a tomboy (!) bug.May 28 02:27
neighborlee_tacone, ahh ok kewl gotcha..thx for that info.May 28 02:28
neighborlee_typicalMay 28 02:28
neighborlee_very typical of all he trys to doMay 28 02:28
taconeneighborlee_: see my linkMay 28 02:29
neighborlee_yup I didMay 28 02:29
taconeokMay 28 02:29
taconei don't like this kind of guysMay 28 02:29
taconetake migues, he skips every discussion like this, makes just technical notes and otherwise run away from flaming.May 28 02:30
tacone*miguelMay 28 02:30
taconein a way, that's a correct attitudeMay 28 02:30
neighborlee_of course..when you have something to hide its not wise to become so public ;)(May 28 02:30
taconebut that can't be really said of many other mono supporters imhoMay 28 02:30
neighborlee_every time you do, you chance revealing your underside ;)May 28 02:31
taconeneighborlee_: be it what it is, he's behaving better than his friends.May 28 02:31
neighborlee_That may be, but its not saying muchMay 28 02:31
neighborlee_by his own actions, he attempts to undermine open source softwareMay 28 02:31
taconekeeping you metaphor, his friends are walking in the street with the skirt up.May 28 02:31
neighborlee_LOLMay 28 02:32
neighborlee_quiteMay 28 02:32
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mib_qvbverLooks like Asus is dumping Linux on their netbooks due to lack of demandMay 28 02:53
mib_qvbverOh well. Looks like a sleeper channel. No loss. I think I'll head toward one of your banner ads Roy. Hot local singles looks good.May 28 02:57
mib_qvbverByeMay 28 02:58
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neighborlee_hmmmMay 28 03:03
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DaemonFChabenero tobascoMay 28 04:19
DaemonFCsweet jesusMay 28 04:20
DaemonFCstill gasping for airMay 28 04:29
DaemonFCmy sinuses should be clear for about a monthMay 28 04:29
DaemonFCgood stuffMay 28 04:30
neighborlee_lolMay 28 04:32
mtnd3wi just installed an antivirus on my ubuntuMay 28 05:16
mtnd3wmononono, works great...May 28 05:16
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tessierschestowitz: Yes. Outgoing mail is all configured now.May 28 05:25
DaemonFC 28 05:50
DaemonFC.Net helping to patrol WikipediaMay 28 05:50
DaemonFC:PMay 28 05:50
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schestowitztessier: excellent. I get mail notifications nowMay 28 07:19
schestowitzWonderful news: YouTube might get rid of Flash and use <video> instead: 28 07:49
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schestowitzHey, oiaohm May 28 08:25
oiaohmHi schestowitzMay 28 08:25
schestowitzWe still more or less recuperate from the attacks. I hope Google will like us again.May 28 08:25
schestowitzUnavailability damages ranks.May 28 08:26
oiaohmIt will repair in time.May 28 08:30
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oiaohm  << At least yours was not this schestowitz.May 28 08:38
schestowitzWeek of Microsoft Government Affairs: a Look Back, a Look Ahead < >May 28 08:40
schestowitzHeh. oiaohm, what I fear more is not migration failure or digital attacks but a physical action.May 28 08:41
oiaohmschestowitz: that was a planing failure schestowitz.May 28 08:49
schestowitz Honolulu Completes Internet/Telephone-Only ElectionMay 28 09:00
schestowitzPhone???May 28 09:01
schestowitzTexas Schools May No Longer Be Forced To Buy Physical Textbooks Just To Use Digital Ones 28 09:02
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schestowitzMicrosoft Has NASA Block GNU/Linux Users < >May 28 09:37
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schestowitzBC student to get his computers back after high court throws out search warrant < >May 28 10:21
schestowitzGNU/Linux Gains Ground in Sub-notebooks Race as Vista 7 Gains Excessive Weight < >May 28 10:26
schestowitz"Interestingly enough, otherwise, the Linux model has more and better options than the XP netbook. On the XP, your storage choices will be a 160GB hard drive or a 32GB SSD (solid state drive). For Linux, though, you also have the option of a 250GB hard drive. In addition, and this is important, on the XP system your only choice in memory is 1GB of RAM. If you go with Linux, though, you can have up to 2GBs. "May 28 10:29
schestowitz 28 10:29
schestowitzI think it's important to lobby NASA to get its act together. 28 10:33
schestowitzNice little tool for NIXers: (Specto: Get Instant Notifications In Your Linux Machine)May 28 10:39
schestowitz"Epitaph None" - FOX and Dollverse. 28 10:48
schestowitzFunny comments here: 28 10:49
schestowitzComputer Maker In Apple Copyright Suit Files For Bankruptcy  < >May 28 10:50
schestowitzOld: RIAA Sued for Price Fixing - 6 Years Later < >May 28 10:51
schestowitzVery interesting list of failed cars (Vista's sibling, Edsel, is there too): 28 10:55
schestowitzJudge Takes Government to Task in Al-Haramain Spying Case < >May 28 10:56
schestowitz "Another group, Americans for Prosperity Foundation, is spending $1.7 million on a similar ad campaign. In the Americans for Prosperity spots, a Canadian woman says, "As my brain tumor got worse, my government health-care system told me I had to wait six months to see a specialist.""May 28 11:04
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schestowitzPerfect corruption: tobacco companies authoring the laws that apply to them: 28 11:04
catalyticerMay 28 11:05
catalytici thought this was a channel about novellMay 28 11:05
schestowitzSometimes it isMay 28 11:05
schestowitz:-)May 28 11:05
catalyticwhats the subject about anyway?May 28 11:05
catalyticexclusionary deals?May 28 11:05
schestowitzYes, but borader than thatMay 28 11:05
catalyticmehMay 28 11:06
schestowitzActions taken against GNU/Linux or Free software... or freedomMay 28 11:06
schestowitzNovell/MS deal being a prime exampleMay 28 11:06
catalytici need to write a script in visual basic that will talk to a novell NDS via active xMay 28 11:06
catalyticdo you know where I can get some info?May 28 11:06
schestowitzActiveX?May 28 11:06
schestowitzBad idea...May 28 11:07
schestowitzYou're excluding like half the population.May 28 11:07
catalyticyepMay 28 11:07
catalyticto be honesMay 28 11:07
catalytictMay 28 11:07
catalyticim fine with excluding everyone bar the 2 people that need to use the script, myself and my bossMay 28 11:07
schestowitzThe next thing worse than Microsoft 'lockout software' is those spreading it, not using itMay 28 11:08
schestowitzcatalytic: ah, OKMay 28 11:08
schestowitzThink about future issues, tooMay 28 11:08
catalyticsorry, dont have timeMay 28 11:08
schestowitzYou probably want to develop something that will endure tests of timeMay 28 11:08
schestowitzcatalytic: some people develop in this wayMay 28 11:09
schestowitzModularity laterMay 28 11:09
catalyticnopeMay 28 11:09
catalyticits a scriptMay 28 11:09
schestowitzIt costs a lotMay 28 11:09
schestowitzEven WindowsMay 28 11:09
schestowitzbuilt without security in mindMay 28 11:09
catalyticthat can modify file permissions of files on an NDSMay 28 11:09
schestowitzThe WWW is a mess now because almost half of all WIndows PCs become zombiesMay 28 11:09
schestowitzActiveX is crazyMay 28 11:09
schestowitzIt give access to filesMay 28 11:09
catalyticits not the next big web 2.0modularobjectivescriptinglanguageMay 28 11:09
schestowitzIt can delete them tooMay 28 11:10
schestowitzThis is begging for chaosMay 28 11:10
schestowitzMicrosoft knew itMay 28 11:10
catalytick this is going no whereMay 28 11:10
schestowitzIt needed Windows-only lock-in thoughMay 28 11:10
catalyticcyaMay 28 11:10
schestowitzLockin before securityMay 28 11:10
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schestowitzThinking it's a Novell help group...........May 28 11:10
schestowitzGreenpeace gives Microsoft's Ballmer score of 7 -- out of 100 < >May 28 11:11
schestowitzoiaohm: Make X.Org pretty with DRI2 and UXA 28 11:20
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schestowitzGoblin seems to have developed affinity for COLA now: 28 11:51
schestowitzWe have another anti-shill fighter: 28 11:52
schestowitzWeird headline (using the Microsoft term for AstroTurfs): Sun rolls out turbo-munchkin cluster storage box < >May 28 11:56
schestowitzWe live in an age where Internet speed is a status thing:  Fight is on for better broadband < >May 28 11:58
schestowitzA man called his son "Ubuntu" < > No child abuse here? ;-)May 28 12:00
schestowitzWintel press journalists always manage to have some Linux-hostile h/w.. 28 12:04
schestowitzBen Kevan: The next US Bubble To Pop is.. The Treasury Bonds.. 28 12:13
schestowitzre: Apple, PJ says: "May I make a suggestion? Proprietary hardware and software is a problem if you want to be free to do as you want. Why buy them? Why program for them? If you don't want veto power over you, choose FOSS. It's really the fundamental answer" 28 12:25
schestowitzShe's being a hypocrite. She has a Mac at home, IIRCMay 28 12:25
taconeme too :)May 28 12:25
schestowitzMark Cuban potential fraudster: 28 12:30
schestowitzPatenting of human genes  < > This is innovation???May 28 12:31
schestowitzJudges under siege. They'd better be honest. (Threats to Judges, Prosecutors Soaring)May 28 12:33
schestowitzoiaohm: (NetComm plans $1.65m share buyback)May 28 12:48
schestowitzUnrest in OpenSUSE Forums < >May 28 13:13
schestowitzbblMay 28 13:13
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MinceRr4wrMay 28 14:07
taconelolMay 28 14:13
tacone;art141,2808557May 28 14:13
taconeberlusconi proposed for the nobel prize for peaceMay 28 14:13
taconeapparently he could stop the 3rd world (nuclear) war to begin.May 28 14:13
nicktasticwatMay 28 14:15
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oiaohmWe still could have a 3rd world war without nuclear.May 28 14:54
oiaohm  Good read in fact.May 28 14:57
oiaohmWho would think searching for lyrics would be the most dangerous.May 28 15:02
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schestowitzI've just realised the IRC channel is just about 1 years old (around today)May 28 15:42
neighborlee < still nothingMay 28 15:43
oiaohmHmm how do you throw a birthday party for a IRC channel.May 28 15:43
schestowitzNopeMay 28 15:43
schestowitzNot noteworthMay 28 15:43
schestowitzNot noteworthyMay 28 15:43
schestowitzneighborlee: maybe everyone agreesMay 28 15:44
schestowitzIOW, nobody feels like there is something to refute thisMay 28 15:44
schestowitzAs long as it was read to raise awareness, this is good. No heckling.May 28 15:44
oiaohmI know how a birthday party is done for a website and a project.  Its normally like 10 years or something like that.May 28 15:46
oiaohmneighborlee: do they have a maintainers mailing list?May 28 15:47
schestowitzJust made LT: 28 15:48
taconeneighborlee: nice link (in the thread)May 28 15:48
neighborleeschestowitz, hard to say..just '42' viewsMay 28 15:48
neighborleeand no replies of condemnation of ubuntu policy...unless we start to see fewer using ubuntu,but so far that has not come to bearMay 28 15:49
neighborleeschestowitz, yes, at least no heckling.that is something :))May 28 15:49
oiaohm  Really this is the place for the question.May 28 15:49
schestowitzC/C++ reference counting with atomic variables and gcc < >May 28 15:50
neighborleeschestowitz, but I made it expresssly clear I wasn't interested in FUd remarks, but serious explanation of policy regarding this license, so it left almost zero room for FUD remarksMay 28 15:50
schestowitzneighborlee: worth it, stillMay 28 15:50
schestowitzMore views over the long runMay 28 15:50
oiaohmneighborlee:  since motu should be taking resondablity to make sure that way they are doing is legal.May 28 15:50
neighborleeoiaohm, no ideaMay 28 15:50
oiaohmIe master of the universe.May 28 15:50
schestowitzneighborlee: good replies can be goodMay 28 15:50
oiaohmThe maintainers of the universe packages.May 28 15:50
schestowitzIn BN, sometimes I get no replies because there is consentMay 28 15:50
schestowitzPeople add something when they disagreeMay 28 15:50
neighborleeyupMay 28 15:51
schestowitzNow with ranking I also can tell consent apart from dissentMay 28 15:51
neighborleeI"d like to think that is the case ;)May 28 15:51
schestowitzSo if ten people rank it highly and no comment is posted, that's finewMay 28 15:51
oiaohmIts also making sure you area asking in the right forum.May 28 15:51
schestowitzComments != pointsMay 28 15:51
oiaohmIf the right people are not there to provide answer you don't get answer.May 28 15:51
neighborleeoiaohm, yes I did wonderMay 28 15:51
schestowitzSometimes trolling and flaming get the MOST comments. It does not mean they are highh qualityMay 28 15:51
neighborleeso where is the one correct place to askMay 28 15:52
oiaohmReason why I say the motu mailing list neighborleeMay 28 15:52
EruaranCan I comment and just post cake recipies ?May 28 15:52
schestowitzJust disruptive, drawing people on emotional rather than inforative basisMay 28 15:52
neighborleemotu ?May 28 15:52
oiaohmYep motu.May 28 15:52
schestowitzmaster of the universeMay 28 15:52
neighborleeoh nvm..gotchaMay 28 15:52
neighborleeEruaran, lolMay 28 15:52
Eruaran:PMay 28 15:52
schestowitzEruaran: sure you can! :-)May 28 15:52
oiaohmThere should be for sure people in the motu who can answer neighborleeMay 28 15:52
schestowitzBut such comments would not add muchMay 28 15:53
schestowitzI get many invisuble commentsMay 28 15:53
schestowitzThey offer viagra recipes and suchMay 28 15:53
schestowitzSometimes with words like "pu**y" and "s**t"May 28 15:53
schestowitzNot the comments (spam) we need up therMay 28 15:53
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MinceRgmMay 28 15:56
oiaohmParticularly thinking that jo shield the recently made motu a mono supporter should be subscribed to the motu mailing list.  So you should get an answer of someform neighborlee.May 28 15:56
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kentma1schestowitz: roy u there?May 28 15:59
neighborleeoiaohm, ah iucMay 28 15:59
neighborleeicMay 28 15:59
taconejo shield is not particulary objectiveMay 28 15:59
neighborleedef. not LOLMay 28 16:00
neighborleeall he likes to do is hurl ad hominem attack..FUD this FUD thatMay 28 16:00
taconeright.May 28 16:00
taconei recently read a gnote thread on ubuntuforumsMay 28 16:00
taconeit was awfulMay 28 16:00
kentma1schestowitz: could you /msg me wrt network access, please?May 28 16:01
neighborleewhich is typical for those trying to change topic to avoid answering questions and remove  focusMay 28 16:01
neighborleetacone, I dont doubt itMay 28 16:01
kentma1neighborlee: aww, surely no honest person would ever try to do that :-)May 28 16:01
neighborleelolMay 28 16:01
tacone 28 16:02
neighborleekentma1, that the world was so comprised of such yes...maybe one day ;))..when monetary gain is less of a  issue ? ;))May 28 16:02
neighborleetacone, checkingMay 28 16:02
oiaohmneighborlee: expect everything.  What use is a motu for mono if ubuntu has no mono.    There is a legal way to get mono ie have a deb downloading it from novel.   But then mono should be moved to restricted to be inside ubuntu rules.May 28 16:02
DaemonFCYou won't get an answer from Ubuntu about anything other than "We did it. Don't like it? Tough shit."May 28 16:02
kentma1hehe, yeah... interesting how these ideas so often lead quickly to a Utopian kind of vision...May 28 16:02
schestowitzeTechnology Again Causes American Idol Controversy, Fingers Pointed At AT&T < >May 28 16:03
DaemonFCit's a faux community projectMay 28 16:03
schestowitzkentma1: sureMay 28 16:03
taconealso he claymed copyright violation, and tried to blog gnote to enter debian (on debian bugtracker)May 28 16:03
DaemonFCUbuntu is as much of a community project in and of itself as Windows 7May 28 16:03
oiaohmgnote is not copyright violation.  It is copyright abuse but not violation.May 28 16:03
DaemonFC"We asked for your opinions, now here is what you get"May 28 16:04
neighborleeDaemonFC, possible of course yesMay 28 16:04
oiaohmbsd users have the same issue with Linux kernel and not being able to port some patches back.May 28 16:04
schestowitzIt's not abuseMay 28 16:04
schestowitzThat's called "fork"May 28 16:04
DaemonFCthere's not a single person that carries any weight that's not employed by CanonicalMay 28 16:04
oiaohmlegal copyright abuse.May 28 16:04
oiaohmIf someones licence allows you to do it stiff biskets.May 28 16:05
neighborleekentma1, and thats a bad thing how exactly :) peace ..yeah bad stuff I know what you mean :)May 28 16:05
DaemonFCUbuntu is basically Debian +Who gives a shit how this stuff is licensed? We're in a tax haven!May 28 16:06
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DaemonFCthat's why it's so popularMay 28 16:06
mtnd3whelloMay 28 16:06
DaemonFCdistributions based in countries with laws can never compete with Ubuntu on that level as long as Ubuntu doesn't have to follow those lawsMay 28 16:07
oiaohmHi mtnd3wMay 28 16:07
taconeno, he claimed gnote was a copyright violationMay 28 16:07
taconehe wrote in his blog that debian ftp master is particularry strict these daysMay 28 16:07
oiaohmgnote shows up how badly tomboy performs.May 28 16:07
oiaohmThinking its 1 to 1 code matching.May 28 16:07
taconethe truth is he raised the issue himself. and debian guys were pretty happy to deal with that and solve itMay 28 16:07
Eruaranyou wont believe itMay 28 16:07
oiaohmIts really showing how bad mono stack is.May 28 16:08
taconeapparently it was about original code copy pasted as a comment (to keep in mind how it was)May 28 16:08
DaemonFCif the "Isle of Man" suddenly cared about copyrights and patents, Ubuntu would just incorporate in the Cayman Islands or somethingMay 28 16:08
DaemonFCthey're unethical and pretty sleazyMay 28 16:08
EruaranI listened to a bunch of americans going on about losing US sovreignty with international trade agreementsMay 28 16:08
oiaohmtacone: that is allowed taconeMay 28 16:08
neighborleeoiaohm, yupMay 28 16:08
neighborleeoiaohm, talk about salt in wound :))May 28 16:08
tacone 28 16:08
EruaranI made the poitn that its usually other countries that give up their sovereignty and become subservient to US law in those agreementsMay 28 16:09
Eruaranand they basically said, "who cares"May 28 16:09
DaemonFC:)May 28 16:09
DaemonFCI don'tMay 28 16:09
DaemonFCand this is the sound of my little violinMay 28 16:09
DaemonFCplaying just for youMay 28 16:09
Eruaranso, it was basically, "if our laws etc are compromised we'll make a big noise", but if its your country, "screw you"May 28 16:10
oiaohmgnote has causes a lot of developers to be leaving mono projects and be going back to good old C++ and C projects.May 28 16:10
EruaranI'm like, erm but its your country doing the screwing... theyre perfectly happy with thatMay 28 16:10
Eruarandont people realise that what goes around comes around ?May 28 16:11
DaemonFCWho cares?May 28 16:11
EruaranIf you don't have any moral stance when it comes to the principle in generalMay 28 16:11
DaemonFCif you don't like it, don't be a party to said agreementMay 28 16:11
DaemonFCquit your bitchingMay 28 16:11
EruaranNobody is going to care when it happens to youMay 28 16:11
Eruaranand it willMay 28 16:12
DaemonFCanyone who could prattle on like you do doesn't understand how the central banking system worksMay 28 16:12
oiaohmHe is a moron.  tacone  /* this file might still contain Tomboy code see the  AUTHORS file for details */ << is contained in the complained about file so covering the file for any tomboy code in it.May 28 16:12
Eruaranhas anybody read, "the right to read" by RMS ?May 28 16:12
DaemonFCso I really shouldn't waste time trying to explain itMay 28 16:12
Eruaranlike i saidMay 28 16:13
Eruaranwhat goes aroundMay 28 16:13
taconeoiaohm: i'm not supporting his stance. i just pointed out the bug in bugzilla for you to read.May 28 16:13
Eruaranwhats wrong with gnote ?May 28 16:13
DaemonFCNo, but I'll send him "The necessity of shaving and using deodorant" and maybe he'll read itMay 28 16:14
kentma1DaemonFC: perhaps you could read a nice book about manners?May 28 16:14
schestowitzNot funnt, DaemonFC May 28 16:14
DaemonFCRichard Stallman looks like he got sucked into a Jumanji board about 30 years agoMay 28 16:15
DaemonFCI bet he wipes with banana leavesMay 28 16:15
DaemonFC:DMay 28 16:15
tacone..May 28 16:15
kentma1DaemonFC: for all I know, you look like the back end of a bus, but I wouldn't say so, because it's rude, childish, and generally beneath me.May 28 16:15
Eruaranthe scary part about "the right to read" is that the laws already existMay 28 16:15
DaemonFCno, he's making a thinly veiled case for screwing the author of books out of their royaltiesMay 28 16:16
DaemonFCand removing all incentive for them to write any moreMay 28 16:16
DaemonFCRMS would have ruined every famous author and playwright in historyMay 28 16:16
MinceRwhy are we keeping this troll around again?May 28 16:16
DaemonFCwith his nonsenseMay 28 16:16
schestowitzWrtiters write for many reasonsMay 28 16:16
schestowitzNot just moneyMay 28 16:16
schestowitzIt's mostly about expression to many, first and foremostMay 28 16:17
DaemonFCif they write and say "Here's all the copies you want, for free"May 28 16:17
schestowitzThen it opens doors to themMay 28 16:17
DaemonFCthat's their rightMay 28 16:17
schestowitzSame with musiciansMay 28 16:17
schestowitzAsk themMay 28 16:17
DaemonFCif they say "$10 a copy"May 28 16:17
schestowitzNot the millionairesMay 28 16:17
DaemonFCthat is their rightMay 28 16:17
EruaranactuallyMay 28 16:17
schestowitzThe 99.9% that are not millionairesMay 28 16:17
EruaranRMS doesn't have any problem with copyrightMay 28 16:17
kentma1DaemonFC: I didn't realise you understood so little of what RMS is about.May 28 16:17
schestowitzNoMay 28 16:17
schestowitzhe trollsMay 28 16:17
schestowitzCause he hates RMSMay 28 16:17
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)May 28 16:18
DaemonFCno, he made a case for stealing copies of that Harry Potter book before they went on saleMay 28 16:18
kentma1oh, well, no hope then.  Once people let their emotions take control, it's game over from the rationality viewpoint.May 28 16:18
DaemonFCand scanning themMay 28 16:18
DaemonFCand distributing them illegallyMay 28 16:18
DaemonFCI know all of what that kook is aboutMay 28 16:18
schestowitzHe said no such thingMay 28 16:18
DaemonFCand I like very little of itMay 28 16:18
oiaohmEruaran: nothing legally mono supporter being a moron nothing more.May 28 16:18
schestowitzhe's against the bookMay 28 16:18
schestowitzYou're being immature nowMay 28 16:18
DaemonFCsince we can't pirate it, just boycott itMay 28 16:19
schestowitzLike those idiots who take RMS' words out of context to say he endorses pedophiliaMay 28 16:19
DaemonFCis basically his argumentMay 28 16:19
kentma1DaemonFC: have you actually read/heard what he said, or are you working on some kind of heresay?May 28 16:19
DaemonFCit's on his blogMay 28 16:19
kentma1what is?May 28 16:19
schestowitzThere are many books to read other than Harry PotterMay 28 16:19
schestowitzHe didn't say "steal it"May 28 16:19
DaemonFChis "We can't pirate it, so boycott it" diatrabe about the Harry Potter bookMay 28 16:19
schestowitzDaemonFC: she meMay 28 16:20
schestowitz*Show meMay 28 16:20
EruaranI've never heard RMS argue against copyrights for authors, artists, musicians etcMay 28 16:20
schestowitz"We can't pirate it, so boycott it" != "steal it"May 28 16:20
oiaohmRMS supports copyright.May 28 16:20
DaemonFC 28 16:20
schestowitzHe won't say "pirate"May 28 16:20
schestowitzHe hates th word pirateMay 28 16:20
schestowitzSay "share"May 28 16:20
kentma1DaemonFC: i'd be surprised if he'd said "pirate".May 28 16:20
DaemonFCI ended up buying the full set just because of that articleMay 28 16:20
schestowitz"I can't share the book I like, so I won't bother reading it..."May 28 16:20
kentma1that would be BPI/FACT language.May 28 16:20
schestowitzIf a site put articles that I cannot apply FAIR USE to, I'd boycott itMay 28 16:21
schestowitzOr avoid it ratherMay 28 16:21
schestowitzLike I do with Associated PressMay 28 16:21
kentma1DaemonFC: where is this text, please?  I'm on his blog now.May 28 16:21
schestowitzA mummy sharing a book with her 8-y-o is not "piracy"May 28 16:21
schestowitzIt's sharing a bookMay 28 16:21
schestowitzShe can also read it to himMay 28 16:21
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's like that annoying vegetarian on Youtube, there was a guy that said "Every time he posts, by a double cheeseburger at McDonalds and throw it out your window"May 28 16:21
DaemonFCso I doMay 28 16:22
schestowitzOr speak out the plot from memoryMay 28 16:22
DaemonFC:PMay 28 16:22
oiaohmRMS believes in the right to share and usage under the fair use provisions of copy right.May 28 16:22
schestowitzShould she be waterboarded?May 28 16:22
DaemonFCI think it's hilariousMay 28 16:22
DaemonFC*buyMay 28 16:22
kentma1DaemonFC: where is this text, please?May 28 16:22
schestowitzDaemonFC: I saw that video. LOL !!May 28 16:22
oiaohmfair use does not let you copy the complete book.May 28 16:22
oiaohmBut you can take quotes and the like from it.May 28 16:22
schestowitzSome name like Ognicious.May 28 16:22
EruaranA lawyer who says, "There is no human  right to read." violates the UN Resolution on human rightsMay 28 16:22
DaemonFCIgnoramusMay 28 16:22
DaemonFC:PMay 28 16:22
schestowitzFair use if free advertisingMay 28 16:23
schestowitzLike book chapters being put online for people to read and want the bookMay 28 16:23
kentma1DaemonFC: where is this text, please?May 28 16:23
MinceRhe can't show sources, everMay 28 16:23
schestowitzOf courseMay 28 16:23
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's not unfair for a vendor to set street datesMay 28 16:23
DaemonFCmost stores set it so they can't ring any of them up til that dateMay 28 16:23
DaemonFCso they don't have to pay the fines for selling them earlyMay 28 16:24
kentma1On July 13, 2005, Canadians were ordered  not to read         books that were         sold to them "by mistake" .May 28 16:24
kentma1is this it?May 28 16:24
Eruaranyou cant "order" people not to readMay 28 16:24
kentma1The one where people had bought a book, but were then told that they were not allowed to read it?May 28 16:24
oiaohmTechincally you cannot do that kentma1.May 28 16:24
DaemonFCand that was in accordance with the lawMay 28 16:25
taconeguess susan linked the monononoMay 28 16:25
kentma1DaemonFC: I find that very doubtful in deed.May 28 16:25
oiaohmYou can request yes.May 28 16:25
EruaranIf someone wants to prosecute me for reading a book I bought, I'll see you in court.May 28 16:25
DaemonFCkentma1: Where EXACTLY is your masterpiece that you intend to give away freely?May 28 16:25
oiaohmYou can get a injection preventing publishiion about the book.May 28 16:25
DaemonFCmuch less entire series?May 28 16:25
DaemonFCtil then, stfuMay 28 16:25
kentma1DaemonFC: sorry, bizarre subject change?May 28 16:25
oiaohmBut you cannot prevent reading of the item.May 28 16:26
MinceRDaemonFC: no, you stfuMay 28 16:26
oiaohmIf person has it.May 28 16:26
taconeyes she didMay 28 16:26
kentma1are you talking about the bit where people bought a book, and then had the weight of the law upon them to stop them from reading it?May 28 16:26
DaemonFCno, I see you bitching about it, but you would do the same thingMay 28 16:26
DaemonFCin that positionmMay 28 16:26
kentma1DaemonFC: this is like stalinist Soviet Union!May 28 16:26
kentma1burn the books!May 28 16:26
oiaohmkentma1: basically you cannot.May 28 16:26
kentma1don't read!May 28 16:26
MinceRlolMay 28 16:26
kentma1oiaohm: that was my feeling, too.May 28 16:26
EruaranIf the cat is out of the bag, its out of the bag.May 28 16:27
oiaohmYou can have a injuntion that if you write about the book in a blog or something else you are screwed.May 28 16:27
EruaranYou don't prosecute your readers, your customers.May 28 16:27
DaemonFCthey should have used the section of their contract dealing with early sales to fine the stores that did itMay 28 16:27
DaemonFCfor every single copyMay 28 16:27
kentma1DaemonFC: perhaps, but that's got nothing to do with the people who'd bought the books, has it?May 28 16:27
oiaohmIe read but not talk about it kentma1 is permited under most countries laws.May 28 16:27
DaemonFCthat's where I would have gone with thatMay 28 16:27
oiaohmOther wise injections could interfer with legal cases.May 28 16:28
kentma1oiaohm: agreed.  It's okay to listen to any broadcast in the UK, including "secret" ones, so long as you don't tell anyone what you heard.May 28 16:28
DaemonFCa gag order is nothing new eitherMay 28 16:28
kentma1DaemonFC: so you agree with RMS, then.May 28 16:28
neighborleetacone, I really liked Methuselah's reply: " Are you suggesting that Tomboy isn't released under and open source license?" LOL ;))May 28 16:28
EruaranIf you have an agreement, a contract with someone, then for sure you can sue them for breach of contract. But you can't prosecute customers, the people who bought your book. And you can't order them not to read it, that is bizarre.May 28 16:28
taconeneighborlee: in the ubuntuforums thread ?May 28 16:29
DaemonFCI'm saying I would have fined the stores for every early copy they sold then I would have petitioned for a gag order so that I could easily deal with people that leaked information about it onlineMay 28 16:29
DaemonFCbut I'm not saying I agree with RMSMay 28 16:29
taconeactually i have to credit migues to have been more considerate than his friends.May 28 16:29
DaemonFCthat doesn't happen oftenMay 28 16:29
kentma1DaemonFC: ah, back to stalinism, then.  You'd've got along with Beria handsomely.May 28 16:29
kentma1Beria had some better ideas, though - don't just use the law, use the gulags - that keeps them quiet.May 28 16:30
kentma1DaemonFC: I'd no idea you were so left-wing.May 28 16:30
oiaohmThat would have been the legal way DaemonFCMay 28 16:30
kentma1DaemonFC: or is it right wing - I'm never sure...May 28 16:30
EruaranOh but wait, you're not allowed to comment unless you've written a masterpiece.May 28 16:30
kentma1extreme, anyway.May 28 16:30
DaemonFChow exactly is is wrong to sue for breach of contract?May 28 16:30
Eruarannow there's a nice little logical fallacy for youMay 28 16:30
DaemonFCthe stores were not forced to sign that contractMay 28 16:30
kentma1DaemonFC: well, I'm published in a chapter in a book on satellite networking, fyi.May 28 16:31
kentma1I can get you the ISBN so that you can buy it, if you'd like to.May 28 16:31
oiaohmAlso there is another reason why its forbin to make it illegel to read books.May 28 16:31
oiaohmHow can you check the quality of provided items if you cannot inspect them.May 28 16:31
kentma1Personally, I couldn't care less if someone does copy it, in fact, I'd be amazed if some folk haven't grabbed bits of it at some point or other - if they hadn't, my writing it was a waste of time and effort.May 28 16:31
oiaohmContact can only limit you means to talk about closed documents.May 28 16:32
neighborleetacone, yupMay 28 16:32
EruaranA journalist tried to stir up trouble for Bob DylanMay 28 16:32
oiaohmOk talk and use inforamtion in closed documents.May 28 16:32
DaemonFCit is illegal to publish some thingsMay 28 16:32
DaemonFCor to possess the worksMay 28 16:32
EruaranIn case you don't know, Bob is a voracious readerMay 28 16:32
DaemonFCif I made a book on how to make pipe bombs for exampleMay 28 16:32
EruaranAnd he sometimes quotes people without attribution simply becuase he has forgotten where it came fromMay 28 16:33
kentma1DaemonFC: again, you're getting very much into the "control" side of things.  very Stalinist.May 28 16:33
EruaranHe just remembers a line and puts it in a songMay 28 16:33
kentma1HMG made a disaster of such thinking with the book "spycatcher".May 28 16:33
EruaranWellMay 28 16:33
EruaranHe quoted a japanese writerMay 28 16:33
DaemonFCso you think that pipe bomb manuals should float around freely?May 28 16:33
MinceRi think they shouldMay 28 16:33
oiaohmFunny enough most places its not illegal to have a book on making explosive devices.   It is illegal to publish it openly.May 28 16:33
oiaohmIts a usage limit DaemonFCMay 28 16:33
Eruarana journalist paid the writer a visit and tried to stir up a copyright disputeMay 28 16:34
kentma1I read it, it was quite good and entertaining, but hardly any threat to national security - rather, it illustrated why governments need to have their power limited.May 28 16:34
DaemonFCNorth Korea amuses meMay 28 16:34
Eruaranbut the visit backfired... When the writer found out that Bob Dylan had quoted a couple of lines from his book, he was absolutely delightedMay 28 16:34
kentma1DaemonFC: have you read much about the Soviet Union and how it was managed, or, for that matter, Nazi Germany, which was run much the same way?May 28 16:34
oiaohmI had making worse items than pipe bombs but I was using them for tree removal and the like.May 28 16:34
DaemonFCthey act like they are in a position to be belligerentMay 28 16:34
kentma1DaemonFC: they *are* in a position to be belligerent.May 28 16:35
DaemonFCI'm not huge on the idea of nation buildingMay 28 16:35
oiaohmIf I published the documents on how to make them even today I would be screwed.May 28 16:35
neighborleetacone, MAN, the fud team were out en m asse on that thread weren't theyLOLMay 28 16:35
DaemonFCI'm more for leveling their infrastructure from sea or air or spaceMay 28 16:35
DaemonFCthen leaving them brokenMay 28 16:35
neighborleetacone,  not done readingyet..but Iwonder if anyone caught the ecma point or justlet it go...that is SO relevant now with the iwire catch.May 28 16:36
kentma1DaemonFC: ah, like last time... hehe.  You need to study more history, then you can come back and explain why that idea has never, and will never, work.May 28 16:36
taconeneighborlee: yes, pretty amazing thread.May 28 16:36
DaemonFCcosts you some bombs to rearrange the shit every once in a whileMay 28 16:36
DaemonFCbut no casualtiesMay 28 16:36
taconeneighborlee: even schestowitz tried to obtain a license from microsoft.May 28 16:36
kentma1DaemonFC: and no effect, either.May 28 16:36
DaemonFCno, we could easily destroy the government and infrastructure of Iran and North KoreaMay 28 16:36
MinceR"no casualties"? keep on dreaming.May 28 16:36
DaemonFCwithout any loss in menMay 28 16:36
kentma1other than, of course, a huge invasion, and missiles with big warheads landing on "friendly" countries, and another disastrous US incursion into an Asian country.May 28 16:37
DaemonFCit would be trivialMay 28 16:37
kentma1haha!May 28 16:37
oiaohmDaemonFC: if a mil or a bomb desposals .... or someone did have a valid reason non human harming reason for making a pipe bomb(rabit warron clearing was popular here).  Most countries have the information becomes legal.May 28 16:37
DaemonFCthey're acting this way because they aren't afraid that Obama would have the balls to do itMay 28 16:37
kentma1Look at what happened to Nixon and why.May 28 16:37
DaemonFCI never said boots on the groundMay 28 16:37
DaemonFCI said b low them to hellMay 28 16:37
DaemonFCand leaveMay 28 16:37
kentma1DaemonFC: like last time, right?May 28 16:37
oiaohmIts having information without valid reason is what gets people into trouble.May 28 16:37
kentma1DaemonFC: only this time, it'll be different, of course.May 28 16:38
kentma1this time it'll work by magic.May 28 16:38
kentma1doh.May 28 16:38
DaemonFCI would support just nuking AfghanistanMay 28 16:38
DaemonFCand calling it evenMay 28 16:38
DaemonFCseriouslyMay 28 16:38
oiaohmNukes have no place to be used.May 28 16:39
kentma1So, you'll stop people reading books, use the law to stop people communicating, and will happily bomb millions of people.  I can't say you're endearing yourself to this particular part of your audience.May 28 16:39
oiaohmWe have nasty enough weapons without the.May 28 16:39
DaemonFCEvacuate, nuke the site from's the only way to be sure.May 28 16:39
kentma1DaemonFC: you should've been in Soviet Russia - you would've done well.May 28 16:39
DaemonFC(favorite lin e from Aliens)May 28 16:39
oiaohmFuel bomb the complete area.May 28 16:39
neighborleetacone, yupMay 28 16:39
oiaohmIt will kill every human it it plaints will still be alive.May 28 16:40
kentma1DaemonFC: that's a *film* - are you having trouble separating film from reality?May 28 16:40
oiaohmTo be correct they will grow well.May 28 16:40
DaemonFChow about neutron bombs?May 28 16:40
neighborleetacone, they are all just running scared now, that the FOSS community is answering mono threat , with real OSS ;))lolMay 28 16:40
DaemonFCthose kill with gamma ray burstsMay 28 16:40
DaemonFCvery little fallouMay 28 16:40
oiaohmneutron bombs kills humans and plaints.May 28 16:40
oiaohmLeaves buildings.May 28 16:40
DaemonFCbut there's nothing in Afghanistan worth conqueringMay 28 16:40
neighborleeto the power of the community, to thwart hostile takeovers from unscrupulous entities ;))May 28 16:40
kentma1DaemonFC: nobody knows, because nobody has ever conquered afganistan.May 28 16:41
DaemonFCmakes me wonder why the British, the Soviets, and now us, well, EVERYONE since Alexander the Great wanted the place so badMay 28 16:41
neighborleeand that includes people that back them ;)May 28 16:41
oiaohmWhat did the plants do to use DaemonFCMay 28 16:41
DaemonFCit's like the ass end of nowhereMay 28 16:41
kentma1DaemonFC: drugs.  The opium triangle - you are sorely lacking in history...May 28 16:41
DaemonFCyou can grow opium anywhereMay 28 16:41
oiaohmTasmania here grows opiumMay 28 16:41
DaemonFCthey grow a lot of it because it's one of the few things that makes any money that can grow thereMay 28 16:41
oiaohmIts quite a well paying crop by the way.May 28 16:42
kentma1DaemonFC: go on then, - get doing it in your back garden, and see where it gets you.May 28 16:42
oiaohmIts purely used for making medical drugs.May 28 16:42
oiaohmEverything is double sided kentma1May 28 16:42
kentma1oiaohm: oh, at least, in fact, probably multi-faceted.May 28 16:42
DaemonFCkentma1: Privacy fenceMay 28 16:42
kentma1DaemonFC: ?May 28 16:42
DaemonFCwhy would anyone know what I have going on back there?May 28 16:42
oiaohmIf you want the best altuded sickness cure on earth you want the raw leaf cocane comes from.May 28 16:43
kentma1DaemonFC: and how will you industrialise this process?May 28 16:43
DaemonFCI could convert my toolshed perhapsMay 28 16:43
kentma1oiaohm: coke products are used in medicine here.May 28 16:43
DaemonFCbut where WILL I put the meth lab?May 28 16:43
DaemonFClolMay 28 16:43
kentma1DaemonFC: to make how much?  Enough to fill a ship?May 28 16:43
DaemonFCdon't have to, I am just one personMay 28 16:43
DaemonFCmarijuana grows rather well hereMay 28 16:44
DaemonFCit's in season tooMay 28 16:44
oiaohmYou can go threw all the illegal drugs any taken from nature has a legal use.May 28 16:44
oiaohmmarijuana based drug is used in treating some eye  conditions.May 28 16:44
kentma1Good, well spotted.  Now connect that remark to the one about "it's just cocaine", and connect that to the one about why people invade Afganistan, and you'll be getting close to answering your own question.  Look up the opium triangle in a history book, and that will explain a lot for you.May 28 16:44
DaemonFChmmm, I wonder if anyone ever considered saltMay 28 16:45
DaemonFCwouldn't that stop things from growing?May 28 16:45
schestowitzTown halls hire citizen snoopers as young as SEVEN to spy on neighbours and report wrongs 28 16:45
oiaohmDepends on the plants DaemonFC some love salt.May 28 16:45
DaemonFCfill up a bunch of C-5 Galaxy cargo planes with saltMay 28 16:46
DaemonFCand let looseMay 28 16:46
kentma1DaemonFC: to what end?May 28 16:46
DaemonFCor pesticide?May 28 16:46
DaemonFCerrrMay 28 16:46
DaemonFCherbacideMay 28 16:46
DaemonFCratherMay 28 16:46
oiaohmTonage of salt you are talking about would be insane.May 28 16:46
oiaohmRound up.May 28 16:46
DaemonFCI don't know, just air drop something on itMay 28 16:46
DaemonFClots of somethingMay 28 16:46
schestowitzPaper moneyMay 28 16:47
oiaohmJust hope not to have the effects naparm did.May 28 16:47
DaemonFCtake whatever kills opium for years and years and just hose it downMay 28 16:47
kentma1I don't think our friend DaemonFC has any clue about the area of countries like North Korea, or, for that matter, Afganistan.May 28 16:47
schestowitzThat's what counts in the USMay 28 16:47
schestowitzEven if it's unhinged from gold (since 71)May 28 16:47
DaemonFCsince before thatMay 28 16:47
oiaohmFind a natural preditor of opiumMay 28 16:47
oiaohmBreed the bugger and release them.May 28 16:47
kentma1oiaohm: that was done long ago...May 28 16:47
DaemonFCwe overthrew the UK and went on to establish their worst institutionsMay 28 16:47
kentma1oh, they breed.May 28 16:47
DaemonFCcentral bank anyone?May 28 16:48
schestowitzFedMay 28 16:48
schestowitz (UK Tory MP added a servant's wing to his house at taxpayers' expense)May 28 16:48
DaemonFCyeahMay 28 16:48
schestowitzWhat are their products?May 28 16:48
DaemonFCnow that's funnyMay 28 16:48
schestowitzDo they have a .com site?May 28 16:48
kentma1DaemonFC: the US's problems are of its own making.  Corruption seems to be the biggest, though.May 28 16:48
schestowitzWith CEO Greenspan?May 28 16:48
DaemonFCthe United States is as much a victim of this as anyoneMay 28 16:49
schestowitzU.S. Manga Obscenity Conviction Roils Comics World 28 16:49
DaemonFCwhat you don't get is how many countries have let so few in charge ruin so manyMay 28 16:49
schestowitzDon't worryMay 28 16:49
schestowitzHuman civilisation will last through your lifetimeMay 28 16:50
oiaohm  << There are many ways to screw opium plants DaemonFCMay 28 16:50
DaemonFCcivilization is just the foot in the door for a ruling classMay 28 16:50
kentma1DaemonFC: the US is the progenitor of the present financial problems;  not the least of which being the vast debt the US is in.  Basically, the US is owned by China and the EU.May 28 16:50
schestowitzChrysler’s Plan: $448M for EVs 28 16:50
oiaohmNone require that bad of poisons DaemonFCMay 28 16:50
DaemonFCthat's ignoranceMay 28 16:51
DaemonFCthe US is not the federal reserveMay 28 16:51
schestowitzoiaohm: be careful googleing "opium" :-DMay 28 16:51
schestowitz*googlingMay 28 16:51
kentma1DaemonFC: the debt belongs to the people, I'm afraid.May 28 16:51
DaemonFCthe fed and the federal reserve is not the only problemMay 28 16:51
kentma1DaemonFC: basic economics.May 28 16:51
DaemonFC\far from itMay 28 16:51
schestowitzFederal Deserves -)May 28 16:51
kentma1Indeed it does!May 28 16:52
schestowitzoiaohm: if you really want to get a visit from a bobby, google "how to build a bomb"May 28 16:52
kentma1schestowitz: do you think that would bring the boys in blue around to the door?May 28 16:52
DaemonFCThe only thing that protects from some of the abuses of the president and congress is the supreme courtMay 28 16:53
schestowitzDepends on the profileMay 28 16:53
kentma1schestowitz: it could make resarching chemistry quite hard.May 28 16:53
DaemonFCbut even asking them to hear a case can take yearsMay 28 16:53
schestowitzHad that been DaemonFC, certainyluyMay 28 16:53
kentma1DaemonFC: the US legal system is corrupt.May 28 16:53
DaemonFCand they only have the authority to strike a lw if it is unconstitutionalMay 28 16:53
schestowitzI give em 15 minutes to come round with the sirensMay 28 16:53
schestowitzGoing Commando on Ryan.May 28 16:53
kentma1schestowitz: not sure I'll find out :-)May 28 16:53
kentma1DaemonFC: one problem is the political appointment of judges - dreadful idea.May 28 16:54
kentma1DaemonFC: another problem is the whole concept of a president - really really bad idea.May 28 16:54
schestowitzThey have Phorm tooMay 28 16:54
schestowitzWith endorsement from some company *wink*May 28 16:54
DaemonFCwell, they do sometimes strike horrible laws down, or at least portions of themMay 28 16:54
kentma1DaemonFC: far too much power in single individuals, who then get 5-10 years to have a ball, with zero controls.May 28 16:54
schestowitzProfiles built using the private sector ! There's lots of savings right thereMay 28 16:54
DaemonFCI think that the office of president should be made less powerful, not eliminatedMay 28 16:54
kentma1schestowitz: yeah, true :-)May 28 16:54
oiaohmschestowitz: unlikely.  I already know how to make a bomb worse than google can answer and the police know.   So they would think I would be doing to laugh at idiots out there.May 28 16:55
kentma1DaemonFC: the Irish have it better, they have a figurehead, like our Queen.  Powerless.  Perfect.May 28 16:55
schestowitzkentma1: presidents are neededMay 28 16:55
schestowitzLike Bishops and GodsMay 28 16:55
schestowitzPeople glorify a personMay 28 16:55
schestowitzSome use actorsMay 28 16:55
kentma1schestowitz: nah, a figurehead is...  could be anything.May 28 16:55
DaemonFCactually, I might be rusty on this.....May 28 16:55
schestowitzIt's something in human natureMay 28 16:55
DaemonFCdoesn't a sovereign have the ability to dissolve the elected government?May 28 16:55
schestowitzTo admire some person and to scare the hell of of him/her with obsessionMay 28 16:55
DaemonFChence the title?May 28 16:56
kentma1DaemonFC: the Germans do it quite well.May 28 16:56
kentma1DaemonFC: noMay 28 16:56
kentma1DaemonFC: or, at least, only in an honorary sense.May 28 16:56
kentma1DaemonFC: they don't really have any power.May 28 16:56
DaemonFCconstitutionally I think I remember something about thatMay 28 16:56
DaemonFCso what would happen if she tried it?May 28 16:56
schestowitzWho overthrows those wielding power?May 28 16:57
kentma1DaemonFC: she wouldn't, because it would cause a crisis, and probably result in the abolishment of the monarchy all together.May 28 16:57
schestowitzLike the Rockefellers?May 28 16:57
DaemonFCconstitutional crisis! yay!May 28 16:57
kentma1DaemonFC: the monarchy is tolerated by many people here, nothing more.  When it goes wrong, it comes under huge pressure.May 28 16:57
kentma1DaemonFC: to a point, which is why it won't happen.May 28 16:57
schestowitzCheck this out: 'charity' job for £34,300May 28 16:57
schestowitzDirector of OperationsMay 28 16:57
schestowitzRecruiter Computer Aid InternationalMay 28 16:57
schestowitzLocation London, South East EnglandMay 28 16:57
schestowitzSalary £34,300 per annumMay 28 16:57
schestowitzSector Charity & Voluntary - Senior ManagementMay 28 16:57
schestowitzJob Type PermanentMay 28 16:57
schestowitzDate 07 MayMay 28 16:57
schestowitzApplications 7May 28 16:57
schestowitz 28 16:57
DaemonFCI believe Canada will ditch that system when she diesMay 28 16:57
DaemonFCthey can do that be not choosing a successorMay 28 16:58
DaemonFCthere's already quite a movement to get rid of the monarchy nowMay 28 16:58
kentma1DaemonFC: I hope not - Canada has major problems already with the Canada act and Montreal/Quebec;  trying to change the governmental system would be terrible, particularly as they have a parliamentary system at the moment.May 28 16:58
schestowitzThose volunteers who toil night and day...May 28 16:58
schestowitzCharging 70 quid for recycling an old PCMay 28 16:58
kentma1DaemonFC: there's also huge support for it, too.May 28 16:59
schestowitzNow we know it just pays wages for people who merely menage volunteersMay 28 16:59
schestowitzDon't even show up at the scene.May 28 16:59
kentma1DaemonFC: the problem is that Canadians only have to look at the US to see the alternative.  It doesn't usually take them long to realise how good they have it (Canadians).May 28 16:59
schestowitzDishonest to say the leastMay 28 16:59
DaemonFCQuebec will be in limbo forever unless the other provin ces agree to let them goMay 28 16:59
schestowitzThe whole 'charity' classification' needs more stern scrutinyMay 28 16:59
kentma1DaemonFC: it's not in limbo now.May 28 16:59
kentma1DaemonFC: if the dominion breaks up, then Quebec is left as a relatively insignificant country.  Not much good, really.May 28 17:00
oiaohmSo far we have not seen a charity arms maker.May 28 17:00
oiaohmThat is about the only thing missing so far.May 28 17:00
DaemonFCa US state may not secede, ever, the constitution would need to be changed, and that takes 2/3rds of Congress, the president, and 3/5ths of the states passing it with a super majority in their house and senate and the governor's signaturesMay 28 17:01
DaemonFCit's really quite hard to doMay 28 17:01
oiaohmLOLMay 28 17:02
kentma1DaemonFC: it's also quite hard to leave Canada.May 28 17:02
DaemonFCan amendment has to be pretty much universally agreed on to ever stand a chnceMay 28 17:02
oiaohmYou try changing the constitution here.May 28 17:02
kentma1DaemonFC: again, look at the history.May 28 17:02
DaemonFCthe Republicans have their gay marriage ban every session PURELY for theaterMay 28 17:02
DaemonFCit couldn't passMay 28 17:02
*tacone has quit (" ajax IRC Client")May 28 17:02
kentma1DaemonFC: which rather indicates the kind of problems the US has, to my mind.May 28 17:02
oiaohmYou have to get it past the goverments of each state and the central goverment.May 28 17:02
DaemonFCthat's why they have passed statutes which are constitutionally shakyMay 28 17:03
DaemonFCand could be overturned by judicial reviewMay 28 17:03
oiaohmAnd them past a vote of the people.May 28 17:03
oiaohmSo far about of the 400 attempts only 1 made it.May 28 17:03
DaemonFCthe states can vote to put it to popular voteMay 28 17:03
DaemonFCbut they don't have toMay 28 17:03
DaemonFCand it would only happen in the states that chose toMay 28 17:03
kentma1DaemonFC: that, also, looks like a huge flaw to me.  Why are the judiciary - the seniors of which are political appointees, reviewing democratically selected laws?  this is totally broken.May 28 17:03
neighborlee < more fud from detractors of rights to post on slighty old threads just because the truth is inconvenient I guess ;))May 28 17:03
oiaohmHere it has to go to a full country vote.May 28 17:03
oiaohmAnd get more than 60 percent approval.May 28 17:04
DaemonFCkentma1: They only have the ability to strike something if it violates the constitutionMay 28 17:04
kentma1oiaohm:  it's good to have significant inertia for big decisions, though - that way, people don't do silly things.May 28 17:04
DaemonFCand only the particular part that doesMay 28 17:04
neighborleethat thread even woke up miguel  himself LOL ;))May 28 17:04
neighborleetwice..May 28 17:04
kentma1DaemonFC: okay, but even that is, in the end, a matter of opinion.May 28 17:04
DaemonFCand a new law can be passed that doesn't violate that provisionMay 28 17:04
neighborleegood signs!May 28 17:04
DaemonFCthey typically are slanted towards believing it to be constitutional and only striking the parts that clearly aren'tMay 28 17:05
oiaohmAnd final queen of england/australian can force it to go threw process twice.May 28 17:05
kentma1neighborlee: excellent signs, yes.May 28 17:05
kentma1oiaohm: queen wouldn't do that.May 28 17:05
oiaohmHas once.May 28 17:05
oiaohmBut was right to.May 28 17:05
kentma1DaemonFC: exactly - a matter of opinion, which is why the whole thing is so broken.May 28 17:06
DaemonFCyou can see their past rulings to see that they use that power sparinglyMay 28 17:06
*mtnd3w has quit (Remote closed the connection)May 28 17:06
oiaohmMore inforamation had come to light about the effects of the change since the first time around.May 28 17:06
kentma1oiaohm: let me qualify - queen would only do so if asked to by HMGAMay 28 17:06
DaemonFCwell, I've seen them strike some obviously bad stuffMay 28 17:06
DaemonFCthat never should have m ade it to the president to begin withMay 28 17:06
kentma1DaemonFC: It remains wrong, anti-democractic, and basically broken.May 28 17:07
DaemonFCwhat happens is you get a Republican controlled congress with a guy like BushMay 28 17:07
DaemonFCand the unconstitutional laws just zip through before balance can be restoredMay 28 17:07
kentma1DaemonFC: back to my earlier point - the presidential system is just awful.May 28 17:07
DaemonFCyou notice how much damage they did and ONLY controlled congress for less than 2 years?May 28 17:08
schestowitzThe Microsoft shills are buy in Wikipedia spinning again: 28 17:08
schestowitz /buy/busy/May 28 17:08
DaemonFCthey moved fast because they knew they had to get their most unconstitutional stuff throughMay 28 17:08
DaemonFCright awayMay 28 17:08
oiaohmReally to alter the USA is not that complex of a process.May 28 17:08
oiaohmJust no one ever gets the numbers to.May 28 17:09
DaemonFCelection reform would be the only way to fix thisMay 28 17:09
DaemonFCand the elected officials will never change the system that got them inMay 28 17:09
kentma1DaemonFC: parliamentary democracies are a much better bet.  government by committee is far superior for avoiding serious excesses.May 28 17:09
DaemonFCand keeps their party in powerMay 28 17:09
oiaohmFirst start getting every one voting.May 28 17:09
DaemonFCwon't helpMay 28 17:09
kentma1oiaohm: which would probably entail needing to move to PR instead of FPTPMay 28 17:09
DaemonFCballot access laws shut out third party candidatesMay 28 17:09
oiaohmSo that you don't have 20 percent of people voting who are control be media controling everything.May 28 17:09
DaemonFCno, more like 60% votingMay 28 17:10
DaemonFCin presidential election years anywayMay 28 17:10
DaemonFCthat goes down to maybe 30% when it's just congressMay 28 17:10
DaemonFCgive or takeMay 28 17:10
schestowitzODF Foundation (defunct) still pushing the MS line.. 28 17:10
oiaohmNext get a group of people people can support.May 28 17:10
oiaohmThat is a big problem.May 28 17:10
DaemonFCoiaohm: Doesn't helpMay 28 17:10
kentma1DaemonFC: your presidential elections are won on the size of the budget of the candidate, though, hence the media is the key.May 28 17:10
DaemonFCwith electoral college and ballot access laws, it shuts out 3rd partiesMay 28 17:11
DaemonFCbefore they get off the groundMay 28 17:11
kentma1electoral colleges are another great bit of anti-democracy.May 28 17:11
DaemonFCif I can only get on the ballot in 30 states, and my opponents are on the ballot in all 50May 28 17:11
DaemonFCI've already lostMay 28 17:11
DaemonFCthat's before the electoral college skews it moreMay 28 17:12
kentma1DaemonFC: dump your president.  you'd be much better off, just don't have one.May 28 17:12
kentma1DaemonFC: just pick a prime senator or congressman or whichever it is, tell him to set up a cabinet, and off you go.May 28 17:12
kentma1DaemonFC: make the white house into a museum, and charge tourists for looking round it.May 28 17:13
kentma1you could have ex-presidents as tour-guides for VIPs.May 28 17:13
schestowitzHmmmm. this one popped up too late.. 28 17:13
kentma1DaemonFC: or we would lease you some "queen" time.May 28 17:14
kentma1DaemonFC: if you ask nicely.May 28 17:14
schestowitzBuy em iPodsMay 28 17:14
kentma1DaemonFC: and join the commonwealth.May 28 17:14
schestowitzwith DRM obstaclesMay 28 17:14
schestowitzneighborlee: mono warning. 28 17:16
DaemonFCuhhhm, does the phrase "Over my rotting corpse" mean anything?May 28 17:16
DaemonFC:pMay 28 17:16
DaemonFCheheMay 28 17:16
schestowitzThey can't kill youMay 28 17:16
schestowitzThey can have you "suicided"May 28 17:16
schestowitzAllegedly like Dr David KellyMay 28 17:16
DaemonFCslip in the showerMay 28 17:16
DaemonFCfall down a flight of stairsMay 28 17:17
DaemonFCthese things happenMay 28 17:17
DaemonFCsuch a shameMay 28 17:17
DaemonFC:)May 28 17:17
schestowitzSome might say the same about the CFO of Freddie MacMay 28 17:17
kentma1look at how many south-africans died falling down stairs.  it's nasty.May 28 17:17
schestowitzFor real?May 28 17:17
DaemonFCthat guy could have been publicly lynched and there would have been few objectionsMay 28 17:17
DaemonFCare you serious?May 28 17:17
schestowitzOr during the fight from freedom?May 28 17:17
DaemonFC:pMay 28 17:17
schestowitz*forMay 28 17:18
kentma1during the apartheid period.May 28 17:18
schestowitzOKMay 28 17:18
kentma1I was arrested there, long time a go, Cape Town.May 28 17:18
DaemonFCNelson Mandela really inspires me, all those years in prison......then he was releasedMay 28 17:18
kentma1Scary moment.May 28 17:18
schestowitzMandela said that without the BBC's coverage he probably would be killed in prison.May 28 17:18
DaemonFCand has managed not to re-offendMay 28 17:18
DaemonFC:)May 28 17:18
kentma1:-)May 28 17:18
kentma1Robben Island is a nasty place.  Actually, pretty much exactly like Alcatraz, I think.May 28 17:19
neighborleeschestowitz, hah snowy..shame the app its supporting isn't written in a free language lOLMay 28 17:19
schestowitzYeahMay 28 17:19
DaemonFCschestowitz: There's Wikipedia tools now written in .Netif you haven't noticedMay 28 17:19
DaemonFC.Net ifMay 28 17:19
schestowitzMono should be pushed down the stairs /sarcasmMay 28 17:20
oiaohmSnowy is python.May 28 17:20
oiaohmNot .netMay 28 17:20
schestowitzThey can have it latch on to gnoteMay 28 17:20
DaemonFCn, they use .NetMay 28 17:20
schestowitzThankfully..May 28 17:20
DaemonFCgood old WonkypediaMay 28 17:20
DaemonFC:PMay 28 17:20
schestowitzI like WikisMay 28 17:22
schestowitzWonderful for few quality pagesMay 28 17:22
schestowitzI will resume the Wiki next month...May 28 17:22
DaemonFCWikis are good, if you mean the softwareMay 28 17:22
schestowitzPlan it to post Comes exhibits in BN and USENETMay 28 17:22
DaemonFCWikipedia is a jokeMay 28 17:22
DaemonFCtotally unreliableMay 28 17:22
schestowitzThe /good/ exhibitsMay 28 17:22
DaemonFCusually wrongMay 28 17:22
DaemonFCmostly uncitedMay 28 17:22
schestowitzSame with some booksMay 28 17:22
DaemonFCexcept for a few featured articlesMay 28 17:22
schestowitzand those things where letters are made of tonerMay 28 17:22
DaemonFCoverall, very low qualiyMay 28 17:22
DaemonFC*qualityMay 28 17:22
schestowitzGood luck with EncartaMay 28 17:23
schestowitzGo download it while it lasts May 28 17:23
oiaohmsnowy is supporting a protocal gnote could support DaemonFC.May 28 17:23
schestowitzbenJIman: opensuse is very slowMay 28 17:23
schestowitzTheir planet tooMay 28 17:23
schestowitzNothing thereMay 28 17:23
DaemonFC 28 17:24
schestowitzMaybe -- just maybe -- Greg K-H and pal will just spin SUSE off UbuntuMay 28 17:24
schestowitzKind of like Mint and UbuntuMay 28 17:24
DaemonFCoh no, without Encarta we only have 5 million other choicesMay 28 17:24
DaemonFCwhat will we do?May 28 17:24
schestowitzPick Ubuntu, add MS patents, NDS and other drek, charge for itMay 28 17:24
DaemonFCso pretty much Ubuntu thenMay 28 17:25
schestowitzNopeMay 28 17:25
DaemonFCthey don't have to do anything at all to it?May 28 17:25
DaemonFCUbuntu already ships tons of unlicensed software, mono, the moonlight plugin, and binary redistsMay 28 17:25
DaemonFCso it practically is just as bad as SuseMay 28 17:26
DaemonFConly no legal standingMay 28 17:26
DaemonFCactually, Suse has less questionable softwareMay 28 17:26
DaemonFCas you need Packman for most of the unlicensed stuffMay 28 17:26
DaemonFCif Ubuntu was based in a country with lawsMay 28 17:27
DaemonFCthey'd be sued to their skivviesMay 28 17:27
DaemonFCover a great number of thingsMay 28 17:27
oiaohmAlso Ubuntu maintainers need to grow up.May 28 17:31
oiaohmUpstreaming of patches is critical.May 28 17:31
schestowitzMinceR: ASAY vs LINUX: 28 17:31
schestowitz"Correction at 6:35 a.m. PDT: This article was initially written on the assumption that the study was new. It was actually published in 2005."May 28 17:31
schestowitzTranslation at 6:35 a.m: I'm an idiotMay 28 17:32
kentma1schestowitz: hehe :-)May 28 17:33
DaemonFCmy point is that Ubuntu ships everything you say you disagree with Suse over and then a ton more that's questionableMay 28 17:33
DaemonFCthe only difference is that there's no formality of a "patent deaL", yet...May 28 17:33
kentma1DaemonFC: there's not much comparable between Novell & Ubuntu, though.May 28 17:33
DaemonFCthere will be is they ever want to be seen as a legitimate businessMay 28 17:34
DaemonFCsure there isMay 28 17:34
schestowitzkentma1: he's looking to justify using a MacMay 28 17:35
schestowitzSo he slams Linux every now and then, even running to MS-backed 'studies' from 4 years agoMay 28 17:36
schestowitzThen the anti-Linux shills are re-fed and cite himMay 28 17:36
oiaohmThat artical on cnet has it right.   But being 4 years old it misses the recent changes.May 28 17:36
kentma1hehe :-)May 28 17:36
kentma1caught out, there.May 28 17:36
oiaohmActive Directory is one of MS biggest locks.May 28 17:36
schestowitzoiaohm: MS got Vista since thenMay 28 17:37
schestowitzLOLMay 28 17:37
kentma1oiaohm: MS have so many - they've been very clever with them.May 28 17:37
oiaohmNext is there intergration between Office and server products.May 28 17:37
oiaohmProblem we have here Samba will get Active Directory.May 28 17:37
kentma1oiaohm: The quote which always sticks in my mind is Bill Gates, when faced with a non-MS option, saying "But it won't be compatible".  He didn't say with *what* exactly...May 28 17:38
DaemonFCyeah, but XP still has legsMay 28 17:38
kentma1He managed a whole fud-campaign based on the word "compatible".May 28 17:38
DaemonFCit's cause the number of people who want a Mac are tinyMay 28 17:38
DaemonFCand the performance hit of bloating Vista to act like a Mac has put PC users offMay 28 17:39
kentma1DaemonFC: actually, that's not true, Macs have a substantial following.May 28 17:39
DaemonFCMac OS X is actually fairly slow and crappyMay 28 17:39
oiaohmThen you have the social desktop coming to open source providing different style of intergration.May 28 17:39
DaemonFCthey just put it on fast PCsMay 28 17:39
DaemonFCso you won't knowMay 28 17:39
oiaohmLinux guys are giving up on the idea of chasing basically.May 28 17:39
schestowitzGNU/Linux Eclipses Windows – for Eclipse Users < >May 28 17:39
kentma1DaemonFC: the problem we have is that, since Microsoft, everyone thinks that market share < 80% isn't worth considering.May 28 17:39
DaemonFCif MS could do that for Vista, it would have fared betterMay 28 17:39
schestowitzLinux at 25% on desktopMay 28 17:39
schestowitzMac 6%May 28 17:39
schestowitzAt EclipseMay 28 17:39
schestowitzWindows down ShaaaarplyMay 28 17:40
kentma1schestowitz: Linux will come out on top, but because of mobility, and MS's failure to see it coming.May 28 17:40
schestowitzExcept in DaemonFC 's houseMay 28 17:40
kentma1Does DaemonFC use Windows?May 28 17:40
schestowitzkentma1: well, they give kickbacks nowMay 28 17:40
schestowitzThey apparently pay ASUS nowMay 28 17:40
DaemonFCthe problem is that Microsoft can't stop PC makers from putting it on PCs that can't handle Vista, OS X is equally bloated and slow, but it only ships on fast PCsMay 28 17:40
schestowitzKickbacks to knock LinuxMay 28 17:40
kentma1schestowitz: they've always paid OEMs for that.May 28 17:41
schestowitzClaimed by someone who spoke to ASUS in GermanytMay 28 17:41
schestowitzASUS also started advertising WindowsMay 28 17:41
kentma1schestowitz: it's one reason why anti-trust needs to be pushed much harder indeed.May 28 17:41
schestowitzLike the "Vendor recommends" thingMay 28 17:41
schestowitzIt's bribed forMay 28 17:41
schestowitzNot it's "better with Windows"May 28 17:41
schestowitzMarketingMay 28 17:41
kentma1That whole approach should probably be illegal.May 28 17:41
schestowitzIt isMay 28 17:42
schestowitzBut who will enforce it?May 28 17:42
schestowitzThey mock the EC nowMay 28 17:42
schestowitz 28 17:42
schestowitz"Whoever tries to slap in the face of the European hearing officer because some potential national observers prefer to go to an international conference, looks pretty incompetent. It was reported also Commissioner Kroes intended to honour the hearing of DG competition with her attendance."May 28 17:42
kentma1The EC should come down ever harder on MS.  Their approach is sickening.May 28 17:42
schestowitz"It seems also inspiring how failure is spinned in a way to smear the Commission and dig the hole deeper."May 28 17:42
schestowitzMicrosoft is a political thugMay 28 17:42
schestowitzThey also send Mundie to EuropeMay 28 17:42
schestowitzAnd to Bilderberg this yearMay 28 17:42
kentma1schestowitz: always has been.  I hope Neelie keeps the fight up.May 28 17:43
schestowitzWhere he'll meet Neelie Kroes face-to-faceMay 28 17:43
oiaohmkoffice 2.0 iis out.May 28 17:43
kentma1I hope Dutch security is looking after her.May 28 17:43
oiaohm  And boy did they change there web site.May 28 17:44
kentma1I wouldn't want her to be put off by death threats and the like.May 28 17:44
schestowitzAre vendors paid by Microsoft to put the Windows logos on keyboards? Penalised if not?May 28 17:44
kentma1schestowitz: they're probably caught between a rock and a hard place on that one.May 28 17:45
schestowitzkoffice 2.0 IIS?May 28 17:45
schestowitzDoes that run Linux?May 28 17:45
kentma1If they don't do it, they'll risk losing sales, if they do it, MS lawyers will be onto them demanding payment.May 28 17:45
MinceRschestowitz: asay's article is unsurprisingly devoid of contentMay 28 17:45
schestowitzkentma1: just ugly smear campaignsMay 28 17:46
schestowitzNasty imagery mostlyMay 28 17:46
schestowitzAnd Microsoft hired shills like ACTMay 28 17:46
schestowitzWho attack herMay 28 17:46
schestowitzAlso for IntelMay 28 17:46
schestowitzThey nationalise the isuseMay 28 17:46
schestowitzAbuse of Microsoft penalise is "anti-American"May 28 17:46
MinceRschestowitz: i'm surprised he didn't take the chance to somehow praise his favorite crAppleMay 28 17:46
schestowitzSame with IntelMay 28 17:46
kentma1It's awful to see so much US corruption being imported into the EU.May 28 17:46
schestowitz"Anti-American"May 28 17:46
schestowitzTo inciate US public against her and her commission/agencyMay 28 17:47
schestowitzIf by "American" they mean criminal, then OKMay 28 17:47
schestowitzYes, the EU is anti-CrimeMay 28 17:47
kentma1Yanks do seem to fall for that kind of simplistic manipulation by the media in huge numbers.May 28 17:47
MinceRthe EU is not anti-crime enough by farMay 28 17:47
kentma1If US media were regulated, then most of this would stop.May 28 17:47
schestowitzFor the US to symbolise itself with thugs like Ballmer and Otellini/Barrat is bad enoughMay 28 17:47
schestowitzkentma1: you mean conspiratorsMay 28 17:48
schestowitzAccomplices a la Richard Steel?May 28 17:48
schestowitzmikankun: it's notMay 28 17:48
schestowitzMinceR: I am filing a formal complain against the commisionMay 28 17:49
kentma1Talking of such things, I've just received a leaflet through the door for an "English national party".  Like all these things, it starts out reasonably enough...  English people should have representation, like the Irish, Scots and Welsh...May 28 17:49
schestowitzThey broke the lawMay 28 17:49
schestowitzTransparencyMay 28 17:49
kentma1but then very soon descends into "we have too much immigration".May 28 17:49
schestowitzAfter two months I report them by snail mail for misconductMay 28 17:49
schestowitzBased on the formal procedureMay 28 17:49
schestowitzIs that related to BNP?May 28 17:50
oiaohmschestowitz: koffice is kde office suit.  Yes it runs on Linux and everywhere else kde does.   It hopefully will appear on windows soon.May 28 17:50
schestowitzThey got DDoSedMay 28 17:50
MinceRschestowitz: what did they do?May 28 17:50
schestowitzoiaohm: I was jokingMay 28 17:50
schestowitzType "iis"May 28 17:50
schestowitz*typoMay 28 17:50
schestowitz<oiaohm> koffice 2.0 iis out.May 28 17:51
oiaohmI missed it.May 28 17:54
schestowitzAMD overclocked at 6.89GHz 28 17:54
schestowitzOEMs stick Core i7 in laptops 28 17:54
schestowitzSutor: "Newer versions of Microsoft Office offer PDF support and rather odd partial ODF support" 28 17:55
oiaohmCome on.May 28 17:57
schestowitzHP job cuts hit Scotland < >May 28 17:57
oiaohmPrint those darn PDFs can compare them to the ones that come out Openoffice some reportter.May 28 17:57
schestowitzChance for smaller shops, hopefullyMay 28 17:57
oiaohmMS really has only partly supported PDF too.May 28 17:58
schestowitzYeah...May 28 17:58
schestowitzThat's not a reporterMay 28 17:58
schestowitzIt's IBM's VP of Linux and FOSSMay 28 17:58
schestowitzLeave a comment thereMay 28 17:58
schestowitzCorrect him.May 28 17:58
kentma1I don't know - it looks like it might be, but it's not clear.  The agenda seems similar.May 28 17:58
schestowitzI'll write about it tomorrow as wellMay 28 17:58
schestowitzkentma1: whose?May 28 17:58
schestowitzHP? IBM? MS?May 28 17:59
kentma1English National Party.May 28 17:59
kentma1to the BNP.May 28 17:59
schestowitzLike ODF Foundation vs ODF AllianceMay 28 17:59
schestowitzWill the real "national party" pls stand up?May 28 17:59
kentma1:-)May 28 18:00
schestowitz 28 18:00
schestowitzFrom the comments: "Could she please be a replacement for that twat gordon idiot" 28 18:01
*tacone (i=975207ca@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellMay 28 18:05
oiaohmschestowitz AMD and Intel running over clocking events basically get 10 years of stress into a chip in a few hours is great r&dMay 28 18:07
DaemonFCthey both sell some chips underclocked just to fill a lower end marketMay 28 18:07
oiaohmYep but its what chips are under clocked.May 28 18:08
DaemonFCthere's a pretty good chance that if you have a Core 2 Duo you can get a good deal more out of it if your motherboard isn't some crippled OEM no nameMay 28 18:08
oiaohmAnd what chips are defective so are there.May 28 18:08
oiaohmAlso lower temp running chips also last longer.May 28 18:09
DaemonFCbullshit, they throw some defective cores out there on purpose to try and sour the dealMay 28 18:09
DaemonFCso it never becomes mainstream and you have to buy a new CPUMay 28 18:09
DaemonFCwhen yours is capable of running much fasterMay 28 18:09
oiaohmThere is a line between speed/temp/lifespan.May 28 18:10
DaemonFCyes and noMay 28 18:10
oiaohmUnderclocked chips normally run cooler.May 28 18:10
oiaohmAnd normally have a longer livespan.May 28 18:10
DaemonFCin reality the CPU will wear out long after the computer is majorly obsoleteMay 28 18:11
DaemonFCso it's a non issueMay 28 18:11
oiaohmI run some networks on pure obsolete hardware.May 28 18:11
DaemonFCOn May 7, 2008 Senator Joseph Lieberman (I-CT) was among those announcing introduction of the Free Speech Protection Act which has been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee for consideration. He explained: “The United Kingdom has become a popular venue for defamation plaintiffs from around the world, because under English law it is not necessary for a libel plaintiff to prove falsity...May 28 18:12
DaemonFC...or actual malice as is required in the United States.”May 28 18:12
oiaohmGot one network that still has pent 1 machines as thin clients.May 28 18:12
DaemonFClmaoMay 28 18:12
oiaohmOnly recently upgraded from 486's.May 28 18:12
oiaohmThey will never see AMD XP chips.May 28 18:13
DaemonFCpassing laws to make sure our legal system doesn't become as fucked up as the UK's wrt defamation and libel casesMay 28 18:13
DaemonFC486's are too slow to do anything withMay 28 18:13
schestowitzA collague of mine ranted about Blackboard yesterday.May 28 18:13
schestowitzIt's utter rubbish.May 28 18:13
DaemonFCthe CPU in my router is many times faster than that :PMay 28 18:13
oiaohm486 have been fast enough for point of sale for ok since they were released.May 28 18:14
DaemonFCThe Los Angeles Times April 9 editorialized: “Some public figures are using England's plaintiff-friendly laws to go after books they don't like. New York and Illinois have come to the defense of U.S. writers. Congress and California should too.”May 28 18:14
schestowitzDespite the price tag, Microsoft partners. It truly shows how 'good' binaries are when sold for a high cost...May 28 18:14
DaemonFCso the UK are the book burnersMay 28 18:14
DaemonFC:)May 28 18:14
schestowitzPassing laws don't save crapMay 28 18:14
oiaohmNote I said some networks DaemonFCMay 28 18:14
schestowitzLet me find a new article about it..May 28 18:14
schestowitzSeen earlier..May 28 18:14
oiaohmThere are tasks were you don't need much cpu power at all.May 28 18:15
schestowitzMore Privacy Laws Don't Mean More Privacy < >May 28 18:15
DaemonFCthere you go, sue people for libel, you don't have to prove you were harmedMay 28 18:15
DaemonFCto which I reply with my middle fingerMay 28 18:15
DaemonFC:)May 28 18:15
schestowitz is a very good siteMay 28 18:16
oiaohmWhy does the person who is libibal have to prove false.May 28 18:16
schestowitzI wonder if any new sites actually manage to make any income at all...May 28 18:16
oiaohmOpps came out wrong.May 28 18:16
oiaohmEnglish law works perfectly ok.May 28 18:17
DaemonFCit should be on the plantiff to prove actual harmMay 28 18:17
DaemonFCthe English law is ridiculousMay 28 18:17
oiaohmIf you made claims you should have the documents to back it up.May 28 18:17
oiaohmIt works perfectly.May 28 18:17
schestowitzOr for the defendant to defend claimsMay 28 18:17
DaemonFCso the UK would let me sue you and never prove actual harmMay 28 18:17
DaemonFCand maybe I'm just bullshittingMay 28 18:17
schestowitzSo if I say something about <X> I need to show what I base this onMay 28 18:17
DaemonFCbut I still get the rulingMay 28 18:17
DaemonFCand that's OK?May 28 18:17
schestowitzIf the source of erroneous, then it's accidental libelMay 28 18:17
oiaohmNow if you don't have a case you have to pay costs DaemonFCMay 28 18:18
DaemonFCthe UK is terrorizing journalistsMay 28 18:18
oiaohmUK journalists are weak.May 28 18:18
oiaohmAustralian ones have ended up taking costs out of lot of the ones that pushed libel against them.May 28 18:18
DaemonFCprobably because the consequences of telling the truth in the British media are so damningMay 28 18:18
oiaohmThe English law and the Australian law is the same.May 28 18:19
oiaohmDifference is how the media companies handle it.May 28 18:19
DaemonFCand the laws going up here say that the United States does not recognize those asinine laws in the UKMay 28 18:20
DaemonFCnor are US journalists bound by a court ruling in the UKMay 28 18:20
DaemonFCin other words, a polite "Go fuck yourself" is in orderMay 28 18:20
DaemonFC:)May 28 18:20
oiaohmNow if the plaintiff has to prove that what is said is a lie media can make up a lot of false claims.May 28 18:21
DaemonFCthe UK is encouraging SLAPP suitsMay 28 18:21
DaemonFCapparently Australia too?May 28 18:21
oiaohmWithout evidence in areas of a persons live they would class as too personal.May 28 18:21
oiaohmWe don't have that problem DaemonFCMay 28 18:22
DaemonFCit's happeningMay 28 18:22
oiaohmOur media companies stand there ground.May 28 18:22
DaemonFCthe UK is SLAPP-friendlyMay 28 18:22
oiaohmUnless you know you have a valid case its not woth the judge awarding costs against you for wasting everyones time.May 28 18:22
DaemonFCthe town I live in was recently sued for violating the Bill of Rights :)May 28 18:23
DaemonFCand is under a restraining order from further violations until this can work through the courtsMay 28 18:24
oiaohmThe law might be friendly to SLAPP but the judges are not.   If the media presents supporting evidence they based on what they believed as fact they also get off even if it turned out to be incorrect.May 28 18:24
DaemonFCapparently one of the elementary schools was running a bible study thing with one of the churchesMay 28 18:25
DaemonFCand they've been ordered to stop doing itMay 28 18:25
DaemonFClolMay 28 18:25
oiaohmWe don't have a Bill of Rights here.May 28 18:25
oiaohmPeople have also tried doing SLAPP here.May 28 18:26
DaemonFCsome local and state governments would prefer we didn't eitherMay 28 18:26
oiaohmProblem is lawyers here are also like sharks.May 28 18:26
DaemonFCstill doesn't stopp most of their bullshitMay 28 18:26
DaemonFCbut they're mad that all of their bullshit won't flyMay 28 18:26
oiaohmThe see you have a valid case they will take it up pro bono to get the money.May 28 18:26
DaemonFC:)May 28 18:26
DaemonFC*stopMay 28 18:26
DaemonFCthat's kind of how it works hereMay 28 18:27
oiaohmBasically doing a SLAPP action here is not worth the legal pounding you will get.May 28 18:27
DaemonFCthey work on contingencyMay 28 18:27
DaemonFCthat is if you lose, they don't charge you anythingMay 28 18:27
oiaohmWorst attempt of a SLAPP end up with 4000 lawyers on it.May 28 18:28
oiaohmProtecting idvidiual people.May 28 18:28
oiaohmYep not worth attempting.May 28 18:28
DaemonFCthe European Court of Human Rights seems like the only check on the abuses of the UKMay 28 18:28
oiaohmending up having to pay 4000 lawyers is not a good out come.May 28 18:28
neighborlee < " The membership has spoken, this is not a democracy, this thread is closed. Please quit trying to push forward your own agenda. " < cariboo cowboyMay 28 18:29
neighborleegee, I thought open source WAS a democracy ;))May 28 18:29
DaemonFCfuck UbuntuMay 28 18:29
neighborleeOOPSMay 28 18:29
DaemonFCyou see what I am saying?May 28 18:29
schestowitzSomething weird at IDG... LinuxWorld points to TechWorldMay 28 18:29
schestowitzThe RSS feedMay 28 18:29
MinceRprojects by themselves don't have to be democracies.May 28 18:29
schestowitzneighborlee: who does cariboo907 talk to?May 28 18:30
neighborleeDaemonFC, trouble is they are somewhat of a standard..that is embracing mono at the expense of users that aren't aware thus using apps for lockin...thats the problem ;)May 28 18:30
DaemonFCUbuntu is a bunch of UsurpersMay 28 18:30
neighborleeschestowitz, no ideaMay 28 18:30
DaemonFC:PMay 28 18:30
MinceRIDG goes back to the Denial phase?May 28 18:30
schestowitzNot sureMay 28 18:30
schestowitz 28 18:31
schestowitzSite is thereMay 28 18:31
schestowitzThe RSS feed suddenly linked to 15 items from another s[lut]ite of theirsMay 28 18:31
schestowitz os PageRank 4May 28 18:31
schestowitzThey sucked PR out of LinusMay 28 18:31
schestowitzTo make their 'event'May 28 18:31
schestowitzThey Linus snubbed for YEARSMay 28 18:32
schestowitzThey ends it, like many others (not a Linux issue)May 28 18:32
DaemonFCFedora has more of a community distro than UbuntuMay 28 18:32
schestowitzI think IDG migth not surviveMay 28 18:32
schestowitzMight be in huge DEBT like the NYTMay 28 18:32
DaemonFCit's just that Ubuntu is better about pretending to be openMay 28 18:32
schestowitzThey fire lots of writersMay 28 18:32
DaemonFCwhere they really are no such thingMay 28 18:32
schestowitzin IDG tooMay 28 18:32
schestowitzTodd from IDG is now in writing voluntarilyMay 28 18:32
schestowitzHe was a senior writer for IDG. not seen him there in a while, so....May 28 18:33
DaemonFCRed Hat controls most of what goes on in Fedora, Canonical controls all of what goes on with UbuntuMay 28 18:33
DaemonFCso there you goMay 28 18:33
schestowitzBut look....May 28 18:33
schestowitz 28 18:33
schestowitzThere are still Linux events...May 28 18:33
schestowitzWith girlsMay 28 18:33
schestowitzLook at herMay 28 18:33
schestowitzDo you reckon they took this shot at a Linus conf?May 28 18:33
schestowitz*LinusMay 28 18:34
schestowitz*LinuxMay 28 18:34
schestowitz[can't typeMay 28 18:34
DaemonFCthe future of Linux is not a community because communities tend to be unorganized and unpredictable, but having a corporation behind it is almost as badMay 28 18:34
DaemonFCso what can you do?May 28 18:34
schestowitzMicrosoft shill  Burton Group at it again... 28 18:35
schestowitzDaemonFC: grab a stick, join the huddle /sarcasmMay 28 18:36
DaemonFCunfortunately communities don't have the financial backing and organization, and companies don't have any ethics and only ster the project to where they need itMay 28 18:36
schestowitzoiaohm: seen ?May 28 18:36
DaemonFCand the distribution has to be more than the sum of its partsMay 28 18:36
DaemonFCso you can argue that Ubuntu is based on open pieces all you wantMay 28 18:37
neighborleeDaemonFC, it defiitely does yes..TOO bad it also backs monoMay 28 18:38
neighborleeDaemonFC, although at least not moonlight.May 28 18:38
DaemonFCsudo apt-get install moonlight-pluginMay 28 18:39
DaemonFCI believe is the name of the packageMay 28 18:39
DaemonFCit's in Synaptic though if that doesn't workMay 28 18:39
DaemonFCthe covenant not to sue from MS does not cover Ubuntu users that get it from UbuntuMay 28 18:40
DaemonFCit only covers users who get it from NovellMay 28 18:40
DaemonFCso you could be exposing yourself to legal problems with Moonlight from UbuntuMay 28 18:41
DaemonFCbut that's not the first time they'd done something illegal or redistributed unlicensed stuffMay 28 18:41
oiaohm  << I was more intrest in this.   And how long before I could run a ADS from it.May 28 18:41
DaemonFC*they'veMay 28 18:41
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, newwerMay 28 18:41
schestowitzI got it earlierMay 28 18:41
oiaohmBut its nice that shuttles appear to be going back to OS less.May 28 18:42
MinceRDaemonFC: go on, tell us that we should be using suse or vista.May 28 18:42
schestowitzsistaMay 28 18:42
schestowitz?May 28 18:42
DaemonFCmy point was that Ubuntu is not only promoting Moonlight, they don't even have a license toMay 28 18:43
oiaohmIn theory if Ubuntu did there packages right there would not be a legal problem.   Ie if the deb download the moonlight binary from novel.May 28 18:43
DaemonFCand their version still makes you download files from MicrosoftMay 28 18:43
*schestowitz Listens to Sister Act 2 - Joyful JoyfulMay 28 18:43
DaemonFCit doesn'tMay 28 18:43
oiaohmThe legal problem is they do it wrong.May 28 18:44
oiaohmAlso would block them having any mono programs on there live cd.May 28 18:44
oiaohmIts the insanity of it.  There are legal ways and they don't follow it.May 28 18:46
schestowitzMSFTer: "TCKs typically contain vendors' intellectual property (IP) under licenses that open-source projects and vendors cannot swallow, so they cannot be "officially" certified as compatible - hurting their adoption." 28 18:49
*DaemonFC is never eating Habenero Tabasco sauce againMay 28 18:51
DaemonFCI thought it was painful yesterdayMay 28 18:51
MinceRDaemonFC: sorry, i didn't realize that inclusion in a repo was the same thing as promoting.May 28 18:52
DaemonFCcourse I say that now, but I'll eat it againMay 28 18:52
MinceRubuntu is promoting a lot of things then.May 28 18:52
DaemonFCmore or lessMay 28 18:52
oiaohmUbuntu does not really care for there uses,May 28 18:52
DaemonFCif you really don't believe in something, you don't hawk itMay 28 18:52
oiaohmMore uses them as test subjects.May 28 18:52
MinceRDaemonFC: define "hawk"May 28 18:52
DaemonFCwhy are you defending Uuntu for peddling bullshit?May 28 18:52
MinceRDaemonFC: because you're full of shit, as usualMay 28 18:52
DaemonFCyou know they'll just sign a deal with Microsoft eventuallyMay 28 18:52
DaemonFCwhen they get bigMay 28 18:52
MinceRDaemonFC: and because you keep parroting gregkh's FUD against itMay 28 18:53
DaemonFCFedora refuses to peddle MoonlightMay 28 18:53
MinceRDaemonFC: you keep polluting this channel with trolling and lies and i'm getting tired of all that noise.May 28 18:53
oiaohmMinceR: Ubuntu is not without its flaws.May 28 18:53
DaemonFCFedora refuses to peddle MoonlightMay 28 18:53
MinceRoiaohm: i'm aware of that.May 28 18:53
DaemonFC 28 18:53
oiaohmLot of Ubuntu maintainers need a legal leason.May 28 18:53
DaemonFCThere are serious concerns about Moonlight, due to Microsoft and Novell's public statements around its inclusion in their "covenant". In addition to that Groklaw has posted a FAQ from Software Freedom Law Center (SFLC) on the issues with this patent "covenant". Accordingly, this technology (with, or without codecs), is considered too risky, and is not acceptable for inclusion in Fedora.May 28 18:54
DaemonFClike I said, Ubuntu doesn't care if they do illegal or unethical thingsMay 28 18:54
MinceRthen i presume ubuntu is _promoting_ ati and nvidia GPUs because they include drivers for those GPUs in the repos.May 28 18:54
DaemonFCelse it wouldn't be thereMay 28 18:54
DaemonFC 28 18:54
DaemonFCThe NVIDIA graphics drivers are proprietary, and many kernel developers consider this driver to violate the GPL license of the kernel. Fedora does not include proprietary software.May 28 18:54
DaemonFC 28 18:55
DaemonFCThe ATI graphics drivers are proprietary and many kernel developers consider this driver to violate the GPL license of the kernel. Fedora does not include proprietary software.May 28 18:55
DaemonFC 28 18:55
DaemonFCNDISwrapper works by bridging Windows drivers into kernel space; many kernel developers consider this to violate the GPL license of the kernel. Furthermore, NDISwrapper does not work with standard kernel features, such as 4K stacks, and exposes the user to binary-only drivers in kernel space that the user cannot modify or fix. Furthermore, NDISwrapper does not work at all without the Windows...May 28 18:55
DaemonFC...drivers, which 1) are not redistributable, and therefore cannot be shipped in Fedora, and 2) are not open source, and therefore will not be shipped in Fedora.May 28 18:55
*_Hicham_ ( has joined #boycottnovellMay 28 18:55
_Hicham_Hi All!May 28 18:55
oiaohmNVIDIA and ATI both have legal licences to ship.May 28 18:55
_Hicham_how are u doing oiaohm?May 28 18:55
oiaohm_Hicham_: cannot sleep for once.May 28 18:55
DaemonFCcrapMay 28 18:56
DaemonFCUbuntu will happily do anything it takes to get usersMay 28 18:56
_Hicham_I am promoting DaemonFCMay 28 18:56
DaemonFCeven if it's unethical or illegalMay 28 18:56
_Hicham_DaemonFC is a good ambassadorMay 28 18:56
DaemonFCThere's no reason why you can't put that stuff into Fedora yourselfMay 28 18:56
DaemonFCbut they will not provide itMay 28 18:56
DaemonFCI think that's a good stance as it educates the userMay 28 18:57
_Hicham_moonlight isn't included even in rpmfusionMay 28 18:57
DaemonFCUbuntu just says "Click here"May 28 18:57
oiaohmDebian has a restricted repo for stuff that cannot normally be included.May 28 18:57
DaemonFCand never explains why that's badMay 28 18:57
_Hicham_which contains a lot of non-free stuffMay 28 18:57
DaemonFCcause they don't give a shitMay 28 18:57
MinceRthe whole point is that they _don't_ say "click here"May 28 18:57
DaemonFCUbuntu has a thing pop upMay 28 18:58
_Hicham_well, they doMay 28 18:58
DaemonFCand tell you that you need to install nonfree softwareMay 28 18:58
DaemonFCand unlicensed codecsMay 28 18:58
DaemonFCinstead of saying "You may need to go find these someplace are alternate optionsMay 28 18:58
DaemonFCinstead of educating, they have the "Who gives a fuck?" buttonMay 28 18:59
MinceRso, where does Synaptic say "click here"?May 28 18:59
oiaohmUbuntu is not alone with this problem.May 28 18:59
neighborleetrue,ogg /theora is sorely lacking in adoptionMay 28 18:59
MinceRprotip: moonlight is not listed in add/removeMay 28 18:59
DaemonFCI'm not saying don't use Nvidia drivers, but they need to draw a line and inform the user that there is a problemMay 28 18:59
oiaohmLot of distributions need to growup in there handling.May 28 18:59
schestowitzneighborlee: wait...May 28 18:59
schestowitzGoogle is coming up with supportMay 28 18:59
schestowitzIn YouTuvbeMay 28 18:59
neighborleeDaemonFC,  I think they draw the Line WAY too much imhoMay 28 19:00
schestowitzMaybe Chrome laterMay 28 19:00
schestowitzFirefox 3.5May 28 19:00
schestowitzThat's Ogg on at least 1 in 3 PCsMay 28 19:00
schestowitzThen OperaMay 28 19:00
MinceRDaemonFC: last time i checked that's _exactly_ what they did.May 28 19:00
DaemonFCneighborlee: There's as many reasons to use the drivers and codecs as not toMay 28 19:00
neighborleeDaemonFC, informing theuser,nvidia driver might not work and cause their system instability ?..thats over the top fud I thinkMay 28 19:00
_Hicham_MinceR : 28 19:00
DaemonFCUbuntu doesn't even make you think about itMay 28 19:00
DaemonFCthey just tell you that they need to install somethingMay 28 19:00
MinceR(they warned the user that they're using proprietary drivers)May 28 19:00
neighborleecodecs one thing those ARE avoidable..3d acceleration is not a choice fo rmany...its mandatory :))May 28 19:00
MinceR_Hicham_: what is that an answer to?May 28 19:00
neighborleeat least nvidia isn't sueing anyone :)(May 28 19:00
neighborleeschestowitz, yesMay 28 19:01
_Hicham_MinceR : Ubuntu promotes moonlightMay 28 19:01
DaemonFCfirst off, there are bugs in Nvidia's driverMay 28 19:01
MinceR_Hicham_: no "click here" and it isn't listed in add/removeMay 28 19:01
neighborleeschestowitz, well yes ogg is out there anywayMay 28 19:01
DaemonFClots of themMay 28 19:01
neighborleeive never encountered any..that I know of.May 28 19:01
DaemonFCand secondly, some of those have security implicationsMay 28 19:01
DaemonFCyou can see just the ones they have fixedMay 28 19:01
MinceR_Hicham_: well then, so does google, yahoo, altavista, and all the other web search enginesMay 28 19:01
_Hicham_Mince : it is in universeMay 28 19:01
DaemonFCand should be scaredMay 28 19:01
neighborleeah yes I know about that.never hit me that I know of.May 28 19:01
MinceRoh, and wikipedia promotes everything it has an article about, tooMay 28 19:01
_Hicham_this Chromium browser is always astonishingMay 28 19:02
neighborleewell what choice is there for 3d acceleratoin if you have nvidia  ?? ;)),,,certainly not nouveau ;)May 28 19:02
_Hicham_it is improving quicklyMay 28 19:02
DaemonFCneighborlee: You have the choice not to buy Nvidia next timeMay 28 19:02
_Hicham_I download the latest snapshots everydayMay 28 19:02
neighborleeas if ati is any better ;))..its them and nvidiaMay 28 19:02
DaemonFCit's like cigarettesMay 28 19:02
DaemonFCI don't think cigarettes should be illegal, but I do think the warning box should stayMay 28 19:03
MinceRcigarettes are non-addictive now?May 28 19:03
neighborleeof course..warnings are fine..I just think ubuntu goes over the top on it is allMay 28 19:03
DaemonFCthe warning boxes educate then give you the decisionMay 28 19:03
DaemonFCthere's nothing wrong with thatMay 28 19:03
neighborleeit scares ordinary users away possibly..thinking the sky is going to fall..but they are more than happy to embed patended technology in the OS!May 28 19:04
neighborleeyeah.great logic..;))May 28 19:04
DaemonFCbut if you just put something on the cigarettes that misleads the person into believing they are goodMay 28 19:04
DaemonFCor desireableMay 28 19:04
DaemonFCthat's a bad thingMay 28 19:04
neighborleemust be all that isle of man air or something ;)May 28 19:04
_Hicham_Isle of ShuttleworthMay 28 19:04
DaemonFCthat is what Ubuntu doesMay 28 19:04
neighborleeLOLMay 28 19:04
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)May 28 19:04
DaemonFCUbuntu is cigarettes and nude models smoking themMay 28 19:04
DaemonFC:)May 28 19:05
_Hicham_Ubuntu is fucking upstream projectsMay 28 19:05
DaemonFCFedora is cigarettes with black box warning and laws to regulateMay 28 19:05
_Hicham_they make upstream projects life harderMay 28 19:05
neighborleeI do such wish fedora was more stableMay 28 19:05
_Hicham_Fedora is more stable than UbuntuMay 28 19:05
DaemonFCit may not be as convenient as pretending you're doing something with no consequencesMay 28 19:05
_Hicham_it is more tested than UbuntuMay 28 19:06
DaemonFCbut they don't bullshit youMay 28 19:06
DaemonFCand I like thatMay 28 19:06
neighborlee_Hicham_, not when they include pulse it isn'tMay 28 19:06
neighborleepulse wasn't ready then and im not sure it is now ;)May 28 19:06
_Hicham_pulse is stable nowMay 28 19:06
_Hicham_in Fedora 11May 28 19:06
neighborleebut thats oss development sometimes for youMay 28 19:06
_Hicham_thanks to the "pushing"May 28 19:06
neighborlee_Hicham_, only if they weren't in bed with Microsoft..I MIGHT be using it fullltime right nowMay 28 19:06
_Hicham_RedHat isn't in bed with MicrosoftMay 28 19:06
neighborleebsMay 28 19:07
neighborleethen mono should be goneMay 28 19:07
neighborleefrom default installMay 28 19:07
DaemonFCOSS 4 is GPL'd now isn't it?May 28 19:07
_Hicham_RedHat is providing interopMay 28 19:07
DaemonFCevery other unix uses OSSMay 28 19:07
DaemonFCLinux is theonly one that doesn'tMay 28 19:07
neighborleeI really admire fedoraMay 28 19:07
_Hicham_u must convice them to not package itMay 28 19:07
neighborleebut this mono stuff.what WERE they thinkingMay 28 19:07
_Hicham_it is up to uMay 28 19:07
_Hicham_personally, I didn't find anything against monoMay 28 19:08
neighborleeive tried..many..times..May 28 19:08
DaemonFCFedora has a legal team that advises them on what they can doMay 28 19:08
_Hicham_it is completely GPL'edMay 28 19:08
neighborlee_Hicham_, novel/MIcrsoft patent agreementMay 28 19:08
neighborleetomtomMay 28 19:08
_Hicham_yesMay 28 19:08
_Hicham_I knowMay 28 19:08
_Hicham_but this is not concreteMay 28 19:08
_Hicham_this are all speculationsMay 28 19:08
neighborleeits very concrete consdiering we dont HAVE a ecma to use ;))May 28 19:08
_Hicham_u should come up with something concreteMay 28 19:08
neighborleeiwire <May 28 19:08
_Hicham_how?May 28 19:09
neighborleethats pretty darn concrete ;)May 28 19:09
_Hicham_the code is 100% GPLMay 28 19:09
neighborleeshow me the ecmaMay 28 19:09
_Hicham_what can u say?May 28 19:09
_Hicham_I am showing u mono codeMay 28 19:09
neighborleek ;)May 28 19:09
_Hicham_there is no copyright infrigementMay 28 19:09
neighborleegreat, thank you for that. ;))May 28 19:09
_Hicham_no patents riskMay 28 19:09
_Hicham_unlike moolightMay 28 19:09
_Hicham_moonlight is differentMay 28 19:10
neighborleewrongMay 28 19:10
_Hicham_and it have been banned from fedoraMay 28 19:10
neighborleethey are both a infringementMay 28 19:10
neighborleeyou know about groklaw ?May 28 19:10
_Hicham_because IT IS REALLY RISKYMay 28 19:10
_Hicham_yesMay 28 19:10
neighborleeI can point you to a artgicle..if you wantMay 28 19:10
_Hicham_I know about GroklawMay 28 19:10
_Hicham_I know those articlesMay 28 19:10
neighborleeand ?May 28 19:10
DaemonFCI think Microsoft's approach to various open source projects have been....interesting to say the leastMay 28 19:10
neighborleeDaemonFC, indeedMay 28 19:10
_Hicham_but we should be pragmaticMay 28 19:10
DaemonFCthey've essentially co-opted Firefox as a value added Windows programMay 28 19:10
DaemonFClmaoMay 28 19:10
_Hicham_they provide WTL in SourceforgeMay 28 19:11
neighborleeremember microsoft..the big bad monopolists ?..who in their right mind would use their stuff..oh wait I know I know.. supporters OF microsoftMay 28 19:11
neighborleesad , but true.May 28 19:11
neighborleego gnotesMay 28 19:11
DaemonFCMozilla went to Microsoft's "Open SOurce Lab" to make FF work better on Vista, and then the Internet Explorer team sends them cakesMay 28 19:11
DaemonFCevery major Firefox releaseMay 28 19:12
DaemonFCso I think they're more friendly than it looksMay 28 19:12
neighborleeinteresteingMay 28 19:12
neighborleeDaemonFC, that I did not know.May 28 19:12
_Hicham_they want all the magic of open source to happen on WindowsMay 28 19:12
neighborleeDaemonFC, enlighteningMay 28 19:12
DaemonFCMozilla has also licensed stuff to Internet ExplorerMay 28 19:12
DaemonFCsuch as the RSS feed iconMay 28 19:12
DaemonFCMicrosoft wanted Firefox to support Protected Mode, but so far Mozilla hasn't done itMay 28 19:13
DaemonFCthey cite various theoretical scenarios where it cold be hacked throughMay 28 19:14
DaemonFCamounting to why have a lock on the door when someone with a fire axe could hack the door down?May 28 19:14
DaemonFC:)May 28 19:14
schestowitz<neighborlee> _Hicham_, only if they weren't in bed with Microsoft..I MIGHT be using it fullltime right nowMay 28 19:15
schestowitzWhat?May 28 19:15
schestowitzThey sue MS/Switzerland ATMMay 28 19:15
DaemonFCThe user can mark Firefox as a low integrity process, but it bitches at you from then on whenever you start it :PMay 28 19:15
neighborleeschestowitz, I was talking about fedora..and mono..May 28 19:15
schestowitz_Hicham_: not correct about Mono and Monolight [sic]May 28 19:16
schestowitzThey are comonalitiesMay 28 19:16
schestowitzGroklaw opposes bothMay 28 19:16
schestowitzBut only Moonlight had an analysis of a covenantMay 28 19:16
schestowitzMono has no such public covenantMay 28 19:16
neighborleerightMay 28 19:16
schestowitzAnd I mailed Moglen and Kunn about itMay 28 19:16
schestowitzAlthough they are OK with me they won't do an analysisMay 28 19:16
schestowitzNothing to do that withMay 28 19:17
schestowitzBut MS spoke about .NETMay 28 19:17
schestowitzIn Comes exhibitsMay 28 19:17
schestowitzAnd around the Novell dealMay 28 19:17
schestowitzBN has like 100+ articles about MonoMay 28 19:17
schestowitzMost of them with external sources, some exhibits from MS itselfMay 28 19:17
schestowitzI need to organise this (one dayMay 28 19:17
neighborleeindeedMay 28 19:18
schestowitzDaemonFC: wrong about MozillaMay 28 19:18
neighborleebrave attempt so far though..thats alot of work :)May 28 19:18
schestowitzThey don't like MS that muchMay 28 19:18
schestowitzWith SilverblightMay 28 19:18
schestowitzAnd the EU caseMay 28 19:18
schestowitzMozilla is part of the legal action AGAINST MSMay 28 19:18
schestowitzWill you wake up?May 28 19:18
schestowitzWatch the Lizard/Wrangler blogMay 28 19:18
DaemonFC 28 19:19
_Hicham_Mono isn't risky for the momentMay 28 19:19
schestowitzBullMay 28 19:19
schestowitzThat's PRMay 28 19:19
schestowitzDaemonFC: you know how PR works?May 28 19:19
neighborlee_Hicham_, you may not know about fedora's refusal to use moonlight..due to its riskMay 28 19:19
neighborlee_Hicham_, I can get you the url if you wishMay 28 19:19
_Hicham_about the refusal of moonlight?May 28 19:19
neighborleeyesMay 28 19:19
_Hicham_I know about itMay 28 19:19
neighborleeand ?May 28 19:19
_Hicham_I know all of the Forbidden ItemsMay 28 19:20
_Hicham_and I completely agree with themMay 28 19:20
neighborleeand you just disagreeMay 28 19:20
neighborleethe point isMay 28 19:20
neighborleewhy that and not flashMay 28 19:20
neighborleeunless you think adobe is going to all of a sudden sue microsoft has threatened ????May 28 19:21
neighborleeI didn't think so.May 28 19:21
neighborleeunless you have urls' to share with us.May 28 19:21
_Hicham_I am against flash tooMay 28 19:23
_Hicham_I use swfdec most of the timeMay 28 19:23
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DaemonFCI use Flash, but flv is just an open container formatMay 28 19:32
DaemonFCwhich is why flv should work better than it does with swfdec or GNASHMay 28 19:33
DaemonFCit's just a capsule containing something like h.264 or somethingMay 28 19:33
DaemonFCso it should just pass everything along to gstreamer or xineMay 28 19:33
DaemonFCso those things work worse than they should considering the capsule is documented and the codecs work fineMay 28 19:34
BalrogJust tried out gnome epiphany 2.27.2 (based on webkit-gtk, considered 'very unstable') ... seems to work well and is fastMay 28 19:36
DaemonFCyou can even use VLC to shift the media inside the FLV capsule into it's own MPEG-4 file :P with no quality lossMay 28 19:36
Balrogalso it basically passes the acid3 test (though it could be faster)May 28 19:37
Balroghmm ... it even has the Safari web inspector =)May 28 19:38
DaemonFC"The United States is a respected democracy that over the years has permitted the use of torture - all this for a good cause and for the protection of the society. A prison society is growing quickly and is operated by the private sector. Approximately 2% of the population is serving a sentence, most of them in a prison. Private prison operators are even traded on the stock market and they...May 28 19:48
DaemonFC...are known to be very profitable and sustainable as more and more prisons are built and more and more people are put into prison (the amount of people in prison increases each year by 4%). "Producing" convicted criminals HAS BECOME A HIGHLY PROFITABLE INDUSTRY and more and more criminals have to be produced so that the money keeps coming. There are credible rumors of bribes from operators...May 28 19:48
DaemonFC...of the prison to the judges and prosecutors - they pay premiums for so-called new convictions that result in a prison stay. So you don't have to be so picky in any investigation, let alone employ qualified officers - this way there is always sufficient supply of people to put in prison - AND ESPECIALLY YOU HAVE TO CRIMINALIZE A LOT OF THINGS. Now, at this point, the reader should pause...May 28 19:48
DaemonFC...and do a little reflection on their part, and let this go once more through their brain. Beautiful, great democracy."May 28 19:48
DaemonFCthat's why they have three strikes laws and dial up maximum sentencing laws every chance they getMay 28 19:50
DaemonFCthe more people they put in prison, the more the bribes keep flowingMay 28 19:50
DaemonFCand the more convict laborers you getMay 28 19:50
schestowitzI've just had a long chat with the indoctrinatedMay 28 19:51
schestowitzIt's so amusing to see how they reactMay 28 19:51
schestowitzIt's tiring to themMay 28 19:51
schestowitzHalf an hour with occasional contractions to their well-embedded 'knowledge' :-)May 28 19:51
schestowitzI think I've made a hobby out of thisMay 28 19:52
schestowitzIt's actually more interesting talking to indoctrinated (sheepsih) people then to enlightened onesMay 28 19:52
schestowitzDon't get me started on astrology :-)May 28 19:52
schestowitzThe word Astrology reassembles Scientology, maybe for good measure.May 28 19:53
schestowitzMaking money out of ignorance and make-belief mumbo-jumboMay 28 19:54
DaemonFCapparently in the UK they put the VICTIMS of sex crimes in a database to be monitored and treated like criminalsMay 28 19:54
DaemonFCunder a presumption that they'll now go out and offendMay 28 19:54
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schestowitzI think soMay 28 19:55
schestowitzFor pedophiles anywayMay 28 19:55
DaemonFCno, they put the victims in the databaseMay 28 19:56
schestowitzOh.May 28 19:56
DaemonFCto harass and humiliateMay 28 19:56
schestowitzWhat??May 28 19:56
DaemonFCthe "victims become offenders" mentalityMay 28 19:56
schestowitzTo share with employers and recruiters too?May 28 19:56
DaemonFCthe poice have the databaseMay 28 19:56
schestowitzSo is some girl is molested by her dad, then not only is she scarred for life but also flagged by the bobbies?May 28 19:56
DaemonFC*policeMay 28 19:56
DaemonFCyesMay 28 19:56
schestowitzSad.May 28 19:56
schestowitzCan you confirm?May 28 19:57
DaemonFCthese laws are getting out of handMay 28 19:57
schestowitzI don't wan to propagate lies.May 28 19:57
DaemonFCbeing used like that and to convict minorsMay 28 19:57
schestowitzI though it worked the opposite way sometimesMay 28 19:57
schestowitzThe abused won't abuseMay 28 19:57
schestowitzAs in, one generation beats the hell out of the kid, so the kid promises never to do the sameMay 28 19:57
DaemonFCwell, first the laws were simple, like age of consent, child porn, stuff like thatMay 28 19:57
schestowitzThen again, one can claim the oppositeMay 28 19:58
schestowitzThis needs studyingMay 28 19:58
schestowitzThere's also the genetic factorMay 28 19:58
schestowitzHilter was messed up as a child too, AFAIKMay 28 19:58
DaemonFCbut in the US now, if you're like say 17, and you take a nude and send it to your girlfriend who may also be 17May 28 19:58
DaemonFCyou get charged under the same pedophile lawsMay 28 19:58
schestowitzYeah, that's funnyMay 28 19:58
DaemonFCthe ones used to convict adultsMay 28 19:58
schestowitzOutrageous morelikeMay 28 19:58
schestowitzThe articles were funnyMay 28 19:58
schestowitzLike bunch of kids arrestedMay 28 19:59
schestowitzAs though they are sex offendersMay 28 19:59
DaemonFCit's not funny, it's tragicMay 28 19:59
DaemonFCthis was the goal of the churches all alongMay 28 19:59
schestowitzBoys will be boys, even at 15 or whateverMay 28 19:59
DaemonFCto move closer and closer to just criminalizing all sexualityMay 28 19:59
DaemonFCby starting with something awful and moving more into criminalizing the mainstreamMay 28 19:59
schestowitzWhat pisses me off is that they chase teens who sext instead of chasing down the Big CriminalsMay 28 19:59
schestowitzLike the SEC syndicates, Intel, and so on.May 28 20:00
schestowitz"criminalizing all sexuality" = like they call it, "Jesusland"?May 28 20:00
DaemonFCyeah, those people making billions of dollars off the shit and the FBI is out in Virginia chasing two horny teenagersMay 28 20:00
DaemonFCgah :PMay 28 20:00
schestowitzMaybe some day in  the future the Holy Ghost will give birth to the next generationsMay 28 20:00
schestowitzDaemonFC: I think criminalisation is importantyMay 28 20:01
schestowitzIt's controlMay 28 20:01
schestowitzCriminalise drinking waterMay 28 20:01
schestowitzCome down knocking on people's houses if you don't like itMay 28 20:01
schestowitzZebra crossing...May 28 20:01
DaemonFCthat's the real goal of these religious organizations, criminalization of all sexuality under the initial guise of hunting down and punishing pervertsMay 28 20:01
schestowitzTax incosistencies..May 28 20:01
schestowitzDidn't OBAMAA smoke pot?May 28 20:01
schestowitzI know Dubya didMay 28 20:02
DaemonFCyeah, Obama admitted itMay 28 20:02
schestowitzCan they arrest Dubya for drug charges ;-p ?May 28 20:02
DaemonFCjoked about it evenMay 28 20:02
schestowitzWell, there ya go !!May 28 20:02
schestowitzEven I never did drugsMay 28 20:02
schestowitzExcept alcoholMay 28 20:02
schestowitzI guess Obama will get sympathyMay 28 20:02
DaemonFCI've smoked potMay 28 20:02
DaemonFCdoesn't do good things to me :PMay 28 20:02
schestowitzFrom a nation of one-time joint smokerMay 28 20:02
schestowitz"he's just like one of us"May 28 20:03
schestowitz"he has a ranch"May 28 20:03
schestowitz"he cuts brush.."May 28 20:03
schestowitz"He... smoked some shizzle"May 28 20:03
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schestowitzCriminalise everythingMay 28 20:04
schestowitzPros:May 28 20:04
DaemonFCChristians and Taliban have nothing in common..... The Taliban wanted to ban music, burn books, criminalize sex acts not tolerated by their belief system, kill or convert everyone else.....and the Christians.....well, shitMay 28 20:04
schestowitz  1. Got smearsMay 28 20:04
DaemonFClolMay 28 20:04
schestowitz  2. Civil controlMay 28 20:05
schestowitz  3. HumilityMay 28 20:05
schestowitz  4. fear of authority (you're always afraid of being charged)May 28 20:05
schestowitzHey, didn't George Michael got arrested or something for jerking off in LA?May 28 20:05
schestowitz*getMay 28 20:05
DaemonFCthe laws aren't there to reduce crime, they're there to make you too afraid to disobey the state, and failing that they can have you working as a convict laborer for minimal expenseMay 28 20:06
DaemonFC:)May 28 20:06
schestowitzOr smear themMay 28 20:06
schestowitzSmear them out of influenceMay 28 20:06
schestowitzThey did it to Kate Moss here, I thinlMay 28 20:06
schestowitzCause they caught her with some drugMay 28 20:06
DaemonFCthat's who they should be dumping in Iraq, those people that masturbate in public and talk to buidingsMay 28 20:06
DaemonFCthat should freak them outMay 28 20:07
DaemonFC:DMay 28 20:07
Balrogi9May 28 20:08
BalrogsorryMay 28 20:08
schestowitzWrong password. Try again.May 28 20:08
*amarsh04 ( has joined #boycottnovellMay 28 20:11
DaemonFCFoxIt reader is becoming a foistware pusherMay 28 20:11
*DaemonFC is reading the Swine Flu Director's Update BriefMay 28 20:12
DaemonFCfrom the CDC :PMay 28 20:12
schestowitzKOffice 2.0.0 is now officially released! 28 20:13
schestowitzNice screenshots here of Linux games including Yo Frankie! 28 20:16
neighborleeyeah its alot of fun....:))go blender! ;))May 28 20:17
DaemonFCschestowitz: Why does Wikileaks use Windows Media?May 28 20:18
neighborleeand go #blender ;)))May 28 20:18
schestowitzHP carries the Linux torch with new Mini 110  < > Serious or just PR?May 28 20:18
neighborleesmooth huh ;)May 28 20:18
DaemonFC 28 20:18
neighborleehmmmmMay 28 20:18
schestowitzneighborlee: played the game yet?May 28 20:18
neighborleeschestowitz, nice ;0-May 28 20:18
schestowitzI might try itMay 28 20:18
neighborleesomeMay 28 20:18
neighborleeexcellentMay 28 20:19
schestowitzMatt Cutts got the Wii fit working with LinuxMay 28 20:19
schestowitzMaybe there's room for user interaction thereMay 28 20:19
neighborleeinterestingMay 28 20:19
schestowitzSome flight simulators in Linux use the WiimoteMay 28 20:19
schestowitzMandriva demo-ed itMay 28 20:19
neighborleeniceMay 28 20:19
schestowitzWell, a Mandriva emloyee IIRCMay 28 20:20
neighborleeI just wish they would remove you know whatMay 28 20:20
schestowitzNot the company per seMay 28 20:20
neighborleeahhhhMay 28 20:20
schestowitzFrom GNOME?May 28 20:20
neighborleeyesMay 28 20:20
schestowitzKDE is cleanMay 28 20:20
schestowitzIn 2008.1May 28 20:20
neighborleethough..I realize kde is their default env of courseMay 28 20:20
schestowitzNot sure about successorsMay 28 20:20
schestowitzI lobbied them in 2009.0May 28 20:20
neighborleeahhhMay 28 20:20
neighborleewhat was their  answerMay 28 20:20
schestowitzThey wanted to ship OOo with MonoMay 28 20:20
neighborleeOMGMay 28 20:20
schestowitzThey say it was an accidentMay 28 20:20
schestowitzThen fixed itMay 28 20:20
schestowitzSo KDE shipped without the blasting monkeyMay 28 20:21
schestowitzSpank the monoMay 28 20:21
schestowitzNovell spanks the monoMay 28 20:21
neighborleeone thing I always loved about mand*, was urpmX toolsMay 28 20:23
neighborleeurpmf was a fond favoriteMay 28 20:23
neighborleeits a shame fedora's tool is so convolutedMay 28 20:23
schestowitzneighborlee: here: 28 20:23
schestowitzSee the comments tooMay 28 20:24
schestowitzThis post -- while old -- might still be valuable tooMay 28 20:24
neighborleeI saw that I think..let me seeMay 28 20:24
neighborleeschestowitz,  I still see how a developer can be blind to the threat...frankly I find it scaryMay 28 20:26
neighborleeI mean beyond the work for food bit...May 28 20:26
neighborleeschestowitz, yeah   mono minefield is a good one...good articleMay 28 20:28
neighborleeschestowitz, thats why mono is so problematic..people that dont have time to investigate such things..have no idea of the implications so its left to those that do and to inform..and we you try, you get blasted by ubuntu forum police that your are  inflaming :)))May 28 20:29
_Hicham_schestowitz : do u use compiz?May 28 20:30
schestowitzYesMay 28 20:30
schestowitzAt homeMay 28 20:30
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_Hicham_It seems that it is related to the Firefox slow scrolling problemMay 28 20:30
schestowitzVery possibleMay 28 20:31
schestowitzDid they tell you that?May 28 20:31
_Hicham_I googled about itMay 28 20:32
_Hicham_another cause is background imagesMay 28 20:32
schestowitzNYSE Euronext CIO to Deliver Keynote at 2009 Red Hat Summit   < >May 28 20:32
schestowitz_Hicham_: that's the oneMay 28 20:32
schestowitzEspecially if they stay staticMay 28 20:33
schestowitzFirefox has always done bad at thatMay 28 20:33
schestowitzTrranslueceny over statis bgMay 28 20:33
schestowitz*Translucency May 28 20:33
DaemonFChow does Wikileaks get all this?May 28 20:35
schestowitzLinux is Mint.. 28 20:37
schestowitzDaemonFC: people.May 28 20:38
schestowitz (Linux Kernel Security (SELinux vs AppArmor vs Grsecurity)May 28 20:39
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_Hicham_schestowitz : I have found a workaroundMay 28 20:51
_Hicham_to the slow scrolling problemMay 28 20:51
schestowitzThanks. Share plsMay 28 20:55
schestowitztacone: in the headlien there is a grammar issueMay 28 20:55
schestowitzThe post about keeping the monkey in his cageMay 28 20:55
tacone?May 28 20:55
taconeohMay 28 20:55
schestowitzThe end of the headlineMay 28 20:55
schestowitz"Prevent from"May 28 20:55
schestowitzOr something like thatMay 28 20:56
taconeStrip Mono from Ubuntu and prevent it to come backMay 28 20:56
taconethxMay 28 20:56
taconeenglish is not really my languageMay 28 20:56
taconeStrip Mono from Ubuntu and prevent from come back ?May 28 20:56
taconeStrip Mono from Ubuntu and prevent it from come back ?May 28 20:57
DaemonFCI agree with this DHS report on rightwing extremismMay 28 20:57
DaemonFCI don't know why they apologized for itMay 28 20:57
schestowitztacone: "from coming back"May 28 20:57
taconerightMay 28 20:58
schestowitzHappens to all of us whose first lang is not ENMay 28 20:58
taconetoo longMay 28 20:58
taconeStrip Mono from Ubuntu and prevent its come backMay 28 20:58
schestowitzDaemonFC: which doc?May 28 20:58
taconebetter ?May 28 20:58
schestowitzGot URL?May 28 20:58
DaemonFC 28 20:58
schestowitz"its comeback"May 28 20:59
taconeok ok, i put yoursMay 28 20:59
schestowitz"Return of the champ..." :-)May 28 20:59
schestowitzPlanet of the ApesMay 28 20:59
schestowitzBeating a [dead] monkeyMay 28 20:59
schestowitzSpanking a money (mono)May 28 20:59
schestowitz*keyMay 28 20:59
schestowitzDHS is poisoned by MS nowMay 28 21:00
schestowitzMS exec on topMay 28 21:00
schestowitzAfter BSA lobbyingMay 28 21:00
schestowitzBSA=Microsoft lobbyMay 28 21:00
schestowitzDHS was probably that who said p2p promotes terrorismMay 28 21:00
schestowitzThese guys are control freaksMay 28 21:00
schestowitzLike the SS, pardon the analogyMay 28 21:00
DaemonFCschestowitz: 28 21:01
schestowitzSaved 4 l8erMay 28 21:02
DaemonFCschestowitz: You might find this interestingMay 28 21:09
DaemonFCIlene Rosenthal, that attorney in the that 1992 Don't Copy That Floppy videoMay 28 21:10
DaemonFC 28 21:10
DaemonFCshe throws campaign contributions at the DemocratsMay 28 21:10
taconebest headline ever: 28 21:10
DaemonFC 28 21:11
DaemonFC 28 21:16
DaemonFC 28 21:19
schestowitzx $1,250.00 TableMay 28 21:22
schestowitzTable of 10 general reception and dinner attendeesMay 28 21:22
schestowitz  x $100.00 Party PatronMay 28 21:22
schestowitzParty Patron tickets are ONLY available to individuals enrolled in the IDP Party Patron recurring donation program. Each Party Patron is entitled to ONE ticket at the Party Patron rate.May 28 21:22
schestowitzFood is not so expensiveMay 28 21:22
schestowitzit's an excuse for bribeMay 28 21:22
schestowitzsame with obamaMay 28 21:22
schestowitz 28 21:23
_Hicham_I disabled background imagesMay 28 21:24
_Hicham_BN scrolls fasterMay 28 21:24
schestowitzYay. Chrysler deadMay 28 21:24
schestowitzgood riddanceMay 28 21:24
schestowitztacone: fiat to buy bits of ChryslerMay 28 21:24
_Hicham_I modified userContent.cssMay 28 21:25
DaemonFCyeah, my ex left me and moved to LaPorte to work at that Chrysler plantMay 28 21:25
DaemonFCfigured his mom would find him a job that he'd have all his lifeMay 28 21:25
DaemonFCand that jst obviously doesn't happen anymoreMay 28 21:25
_Hicham_added : *{backgound-image : none !important;}May 28 21:25
DaemonFChe did have a decent job for all of 3 yearsMay 28 21:26
DaemonFCtoo bad he blew it all on drugs or he'd have something left to go to college withMay 28 21:26
*tacone has quit (" ajax IRC Client")May 28 21:27
schestowitz_Hicham_: !ok;May 28 21:31
DaemonFCat least Mitch Daniels is constitutionally prohibited from running for reelection in 2012May 28 21:32
DaemonFC:PMay 28 21:32
_Hicham_schestowitz : it is not the perfect solutionMay 28 21:32
DaemonFCour governor is basically hiding under his desk while he's selling off the state to foreign companiesMay 28 21:33
DaemonFChe was George W. Bush's director of the Office of Management and Budget for a couple years :PMay 28 21:34
DaemonFCschestowitz: That dinner is a campaign fundraiser for Indiana's Democratic congressmenMay 28 21:35
DaemonFCkeeping them there is importantMay 28 21:35
DaemonFCpoaching another seat would be niceMay 28 21:35
DaemonFC:)May 28 21:36
_Hicham_I am voting for u DaemonFCMay 28 21:36
_Hicham_you would do a good governorMay 28 21:36
DaemonFCbetter than what we haveMay 28 21:37
DaemonFCbut then again, my cat is more qualified than Mitch DanielsMay 28 21:37
DaemonFC:)May 28 21:37
_Hicham_I believe in uMay 28 21:37
schestowitz_Hicham_: do other sites give the same problem?May 28 21:38
DaemonFCstuff would get doneMay 28 21:38
_Hicham_schestowitz : yesMay 28 21:38
_Hicham_as long as there is transparent background imagesMay 28 21:38
DaemonFCif I were to become governor at this point, my first act would be an executive orderMay 28 21:38
DaemonFCrescinding all pending deals to privatize state agenciesMay 28 21:38
schestowitz_Hicham_: cats would not accept bribesMay 28 21:38
schestowitzJust food. Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........May 28 21:38
_Hicham_DaemonFC would not take bribesMay 28 21:39
_Hicham_isn't it DaemonFC?May 28 21:39
DaemonFCdamn right I wouldn'tMay 28 21:39
schestowitzYou have a wageMay 28 21:39
DaemonFCI'd go nuclear on those assholesMay 28 21:39
schestowitzTo keep integrityMay 28 21:39
DaemonFCveto pen :)May 28 21:39
schestowitzNukeeelarMay 28 21:39
_Hicham_this governor is oldMay 28 21:40
_Hicham_u need sarah palinMay 28 21:40
_Hicham_which is still sexyMay 28 21:40
DaemonFCno, I'd establish a state website where I could point out exactly why I vetoed anything I vetoedMay 28 21:40
_Hicham_I don't know why all americans want to see her nakedMay 28 21:40
DaemonFCand I wouldn't hide from the mediaMay 28 21:40
schestowitzWill you swear on the bible that you shalt not bribe?May 28 21:41
schestowitzWith your right hand on ot?May 28 21:41
schestowitz*itMay 28 21:41
DaemonFCno, because every public official that does that ends up taking bribesMay 28 21:41
DaemonFCand I don't want to inherit their curseMay 28 21:41
DaemonFC;)May 28 21:41
schestowitz_Hicham_: she had at least 5 kids, you probably want to see the young Palin ahem.. exposedMay 28 21:42
_Hicham_it is not meMay 28 21:42
_Hicham_it is the americansMay 28 21:42
schestowitzI know.May 28 21:42
schestowitzShe's in her 40s AFAIKMay 28 21:42
_Hicham_yesMay 28 21:42
schestowitzDaemonFC: they take bribes all the timeMay 28 21:42
schestowitzBut it's called something elseMay 28 21:42
schestowitzLike "Dinners"May 28 21:42
_Hicham_giftsMay 28 21:42
schestowitzSee my link aboveMay 28 21:42
schestowitzAbout MS execs paying ObamaMay 28 21:43
schestowitzPERSONALLYMay 28 21:43
schestowitzballmerMay 28 21:43
schestowitzBoth Steve and his wifeMay 28 21:43
schestowitzThe two GatesesMay 28 21:43
_Hicham_MS is greatMay 28 21:43
DaemonFCI'm a party member :PMay 28 21:43
schestowitzBrad Smith...May 28 21:43
schestowitzThe whole clubMay 28 21:43
_Hicham_there are helping the worldMay 28 21:43
schestowitzBribing himMay 28 21:43
DaemonFCI volunteer at the local office sometimesMay 28 21:43
schestowitz$50k for nothing.May 28 21:43
schestowitzJust bribeMay 28 21:43
_Hicham_without MS, no one would have learned how to use a compMay 28 21:43
DaemonFCno, my take on the issue is a little differentMay 28 21:43
DaemonFCwithout Microsoft, there's be another company just as badMay 28 21:44
DaemonFCORMay 28 21:44
schestowitzMicrosoft helps me...May 28 21:44
DaemonFC10 competing standards that are mutually incompatibleMay 28 21:44
DaemonFClike the 80sMay 28 21:44
schestowitz...gain experience in studying white-collar crimeMay 28 21:44
_Hicham_MS has unified the WebMay 28 21:45
DaemonFCMicrosoft killed off all those because they wre stupid enough to try and do their own hardware too (Apple, Commodore, Tandy, etc.)May 28 21:45
DaemonFCand so they never got their economy of scaleMay 28 21:45
_Hicham_MS has unified programming languagesMay 28 21:45
DaemonFCthe PC is an open platform that can run many operating systemsMay 28 21:46
DaemonFCApple was just another closed system that only ran one OSMay 28 21:46
_Hicham_MS has unified word processingMay 28 21:46
DaemonFCand cost too muchMay 28 21:46
DaemonFCnow an Apple is PC hardware with DRM enforcement for the operating systemMay 28 21:46
_Hicham_MS has given their software for free to third world countriesMay 28 21:46
DaemonFCso they can still gougeMay 28 21:46
DaemonFCquite clever reallyMay 28 21:46
_Hicham_MS is helping poor peopleMay 28 21:47
*neonfloss ( has joined #boycottnovellMay 28 21:47
*MinceR discards his overloaded sarcasm detectorMay 28 21:47
DaemonFCmost people have no idea that Windows is as portable as OS X isMay 28 21:47
DaemonFCbut there's no need for a transition because no hardware is really worth transitioning toMay 28 21:48
DaemonFCI thought one thing Ubuntu said was pretty damned funny, maybe even the only real plus they have over DebianMay 28 21:49
DaemonFCin their ManifestoMay 28 21:49
_Hicham_u can't port Windows easilyMay 28 21:49
_Hicham_their build system is fucking weirdMay 28 21:49
DaemonFC"Debian will not include something if it fails to build on even one CPU family, we're only worried about 3"May 28 21:49
DaemonFCnow it's down to twoMay 28 21:49
DaemonFCthe only two that matterMay 28 21:49
DaemonFCerrr, Debian has like 12May 28 21:50
DaemonFCso that's part of the reason Debian releases are so slowMay 28 21:50
DaemonFCthey worry about architectures nobody usesMay 28 21:50
_Hicham_yes, that is trueMay 28 21:51
_Hicham_Debian is the universal operating systemMay 28 21:51
DaemonFCyuckMay 28 21:51
_Hicham_it u encounter an alien, he will be using DebianMay 28 21:51
DaemonFCwhich makes Deian useless if you're on a PCMay 28 21:51
DaemonFCbecause every other distro soars past themMay 28 21:51
_Hicham_if u are on a pc, use fedoraMay 28 21:51
DaemonFC*DebianMay 28 21:51
_Hicham_it always features the latest and greatestMay 28 21:52
DaemonFCI've never seen any other OS sacrifice an important arch to go after 10 others that nobody usesMay 28 21:52
_Hicham_new kernels are provided within 2 days of their official releaseMay 28 21:52
DaemonFCthat's like blowing up a machine to save the fuseMay 28 21:52
_Hicham_Firefox is updated immediatelyMay 28 21:52
DaemonFCwith x86(-64) to have over 96% of Linux usersMay 28 21:53
_Hicham_DaemonFC package get also updated frequentlyMay 28 21:53
_Hicham_hahahahaMay 28 21:53
DaemonFCand the next closest is like PPC with 3%May 28 21:53
DaemonFC*youMay 28 21:53
_Hicham_Intel hardware is the most commonMay 28 21:53
_Hicham_hahahahahaMay 28 21:53
_Hicham_hahahahahahahaMay 28 21:53
DaemonFCso Debian counts x86-64 as an arch, so you have them supporting 12 arches, only 2 really matter, PPC support is cool but probably shouldn't really hold up the developmentMay 28 21:54
DaemonFCand 9 archs that are of no importance at allMay 28 21:54
DaemonFCeverMay 28 21:54
_Hicham_convince them of thatMay 28 21:55
DaemonFCit also takes some serious resources to compile and package, even for only one archMay 28 21:55
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DaemonFCso they're wasting tons of systems to build versions of Debian that nobody can even useMay 28 21:56
schestowitzload average: 2.27, 5.35, 3.34May 28 21:56
DaemonFCI mean these need to be dedicated systems tooMay 28 21:56
schestowitzLots of traffic or just weird...May 28 21:56
DaemonFCFedora bogs down a couple of badass systems just building for 2 archsMay 28 21:56
DaemonFCso Debian is squanderinging money and then asking for donationsMay 28 21:57
DaemonFC*squanderingMay 28 21:57
DaemonFCthe correct thing to do is not a universal OS, but rather an "Everyone has a PC anyway, so fuck it" OSMay 28 21:58
DaemonFCwhich is what every other distro does reallyMay 28 21:58
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*DaemonFC beats _Hicham_ over the head with a Debian system running on a Motorola 68k CPUMay 28 22:00
DaemonFCjust as soon as I can find oneMay 28 22:00
_Hicham_hahahahahahaMay 28 22:00
_Hicham_hahahahahahahaMay 28 22:00
_Hicham_DaemonFC, alias Indiana Jones of BoycottnovellMay 28 22:01
_Hicham_DaemonFC is portable tooMay 28 22:04
_Hicham_you can compile DaemonFC on all platformsMay 28 22:04
_Hicham_but u should optimize with -O3 flagMay 28 22:04
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DaemonFCyes, George Lucas is familiar with IndianaMay 28 22:10
DaemonFCthe woman in Raiders of the Lost Ark, MarionMay 28 22:11
DaemonFCI live about 20 miles north of Marion, Indiana :PMay 28 22:11
DaemonFCof course it used to be a thriving city with plenty of industryMay 28 22:12
DaemonFCnow the roads all have potholes, the factories are boarded up, and everyone in the town is selling drugs, on welfare, or working low end jobsMay 28 22:12
DaemonFCit's gone from both extremes in about 10 yearsMay 28 22:13
DaemonFCthe New York Times used Marion as a prime example of the effects of NAFTAMay 28 22:13
DaemonFCbasically NAFTA has bled the United States and shifted the money to Mexico, which might be OK on some level if any of it actually went to the workers thereMay 28 22:15
DaemonFC(it doesn't)May 28 22:16
DaemonFCinstead the rich elites have used it as a smash and grab and if any Mexican has benefited from it, it would be people like Carlos SlimMay 28 22:16
DaemonFCso it was intended to fuck over working people to benefit the wealthyMay 28 22:16
DaemonFCand has succeeded spectacularlyMay 28 22:17
DaemonFCschestowitz: Microsoft's XBOX 360 repair center takes advantage of NAFTAMay 28 22:18
DaemonFCthey have you ship your malfunctioning XBOX 360 to McAllen, Texas, and from there they just load them all onto a truck and take them a few miles into MexicoMay 28 22:18
neighborleeDaemonFC, eek ..I used tohave a 360,,until I found out the price of going online with thanks...and tech support was always india...again no thanks so I got a ps3 insteadMay 28 22:19
DaemonFCthey pop out the motherboard, throw it into a scrap heapMay 28 22:19
DaemonFCpop in a new motherboard and send it out as a refurbMay 28 22:19
DaemonFCfrom there the bad boards get shipped back to China to be broken down for scrapMay 28 22:19
schestowitzThat's amazingMay 28 22:20
DaemonFCof course the price value of the scrap can go up or downMay 28 22:20
schestowitzI never knew just how effective NAFTA becameMay 28 22:20
DaemonFCso they can also dispose of it in Mexican landfillsMay 28 22:20
schestowitzThe press didn't cover it, you know?May 28 22:20
schestowitzJust shows who controls the press :-pMay 28 22:20
schestowitzSheesh!!May 28 22:20
DaemonFCthey did, not enough to show what it really was going to doMay 28 22:20
DaemonFCbut now it's too lateMay 28 22:20
schestowitzACTA is the new NAFTAMay 28 22:21
DaemonFCI don't really see how ACTA could possibly be as badMay 28 22:21
DaemonFCand ACTA goes directly against the 4th Amendment of the US ConstitutionMay 28 22:23
DaemonFCthe ISP cooperation clauseMay 28 22:24
DaemonFChmmm, of course the RIAA back itMay 28 22:25
DaemonFCjust follow the smell of bullshit and money and there they areMay 28 22:26
DaemonFCmy guess is that Canada will pass it before we doMay 28 22:26
DaemonFCCanada has always bent over for the record industryMay 28 22:27
DaemonFCthey even charge "piracy tax" on blank CDsMay 28 22:27
schestowitzRead the documentMay 28 22:28
schestowitzThere's more than thatMay 28 22:28
DaemonFCyou notice that no government anywhere is scared of their citizensMay 28 22:29
DaemonFCin the slightestMay 28 22:29
DaemonFCthink there may be a reason for that? :)May 28 22:29
DaemonFCthey don't fear consequences because there are none, you can vote them out of office because someone just like them will replace that officialMay 28 22:31
DaemonFCand you can't overthrow them because they've turned the police into a militaryMay 28 22:31
DaemonFCthe government controls everything on TV through the FCCMay 28 22:33
DaemonFCand a lot of what's on the internet if nothing makes you want to dig a little deeperMay 28 22:33
DaemonFC1 in every 50 Americans is in jail or prisonMay 28 22:34
neighborleefor what spitting on the streeets ? ;)May 28 22:35
DaemonFCmost of them are not hardened criminals, it's just that there's so many laws that they can arrest you for anything nowMay 28 22:35
DaemonFCthey grip a little tighter and say that they have authority now over something they never claimed beforeMay 28 22:36
DaemonFCthey set precedents so that they can keep running afoul of the constitutionMay 28 22:36
DaemonFCor sometimes they do a PATRIOT Act and just throw 1,000 pages of law that is almost certainly all unconstitutional at the wallMay 28 22:37
DaemonFCand see what sticksMay 28 22:37
DaemonFCthen they use amendments to the PATRIOT Act to renew and reauthorize unrelated things so that a judge can't strike the PATRIOT Act totallyMay 28 22:39
DaemonFCbut has to go through line by line as the government uses each clauseMay 28 22:39
DaemonFCit can take years fighting through the court system just to strike down 1% of the crap in the PATRIOT ActMay 28 22:41
DaemonFCand that has happened, parts of it were struck down just like thatMay 28 22:41
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DaemonFCbut the difficulty of doing it is the whole pointMay 28 22:41
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonFC: doing what?May 28 22:42
DaemonFCexplaining the Patriot ActMay 28 22:42
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonFC: oh that golden nugget of law enforcement goodnessMay 28 22:43
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DaemonFCThe Patriot Act amounts to "Here's 1,000 horrible things we can do to you. You have to wait til we've done one of them to oppose JUST that one piece. And if you get that one piece struck after 3 years in the court system, then there's still the other 999 thingsMay 28 22:43
DaemonFCThe Patriot Act was written before 9/11, because there's no way you can come up with a bill that long rife with so many abuses so quicklyMay 28 22:44
DaemonFCmy guess is that the government was keeping a laundry list of rights they wanted to take away as a draft bill, that "became" the Patriot Act, after they had an excuse to introduce itMay 28 22:45
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonFC: you would be surprised how quickly bills can be drafted if there is motivation for them, take all those Bills forced by the Telecom Lobby focused squarely at Net NeutralityMay 28 22:46
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonFC: I am sure some of the clauses were thought of while the Patriot Act was a glimmer in the NSA's eyeMay 28 22:47
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonFC: but you can be suprised how quickly bills can be drafted and also how quickly they are pushed forward because the so called reprisentatives do not read it closely enough because its being pushed with sweet soft money incentivesMay 28 22:48
neighborleethe laws , while not perfect are meant as a guideline, to maintain order...sure some are prob. too strict, but without them could we really expect citizens to police would shortly have mayhem in the streets ..we dont live in utopia quite yet..but yes sadly alot of people i n jail are also falsely convicted, now some overturned due to DNA testingMay 28 22:49
neighborleeIt also depends on ones background, peers, education..alot of things...utopia wont be built in a day.May 28 22:49
neighborleeand thanks to busy..its going to take a tad bit longer ;)May 28 22:49
neighborlee............bushMay 28 22:49
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: citizens can do a great job of policing themselves, all the tax payers money being poured into forensic labs and investigative databases amounts to something. Also, all the due process in place is to ensure the "citizens" have a piece of mind when interacting with their reprisentatives in law enforcement.May 28 22:51
neighborleemany would yes...many also would not.May 28 22:51
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: has the Patriot Act helped US agents catch any terrorists? The folks at the NSA easedropping facility in West Virginia admit themselves that they end up screening more calls concerning people calling oversees to their relatives serving in Afghanistan and Iraq then anyone elseMay 28 22:52
neighborleeConsidering who was behind writing it..who amoungst us is real surprised ;))May 28 22:52
neighborleegive obama a chance to fix things.May 28 22:53
schestowitzDaemonFC: agreed about the FCCMay 28 22:53
schestowitzIt's scary how censorship worksMay 28 22:53
schestowitzIt's proactiveMay 28 22:53
schestowitzVia editors and broadcastersMay 28 22:53
schestowitzYou needn't look far to see how 'troublemakers' (like some professors) get sidelines and kept out of public televisionMay 28 22:53
neighborleeand if you dont like whats going on get involved and get new laws passedMay 28 22:54
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: also why is there a need for this "Homeland Security" isn't the issue with the intelligence community and law enforcement prior was that they were big beuracracies that had issues interacting with eachother to colaborate towards any big intelligence breakthroughs for national security? Why would introducing yet another beaurocracy help?May 28 22:54
neighborleeI am..all of us can.May 28 22:54
neighborleewhen bush came in...he got rid of all who knew what they were doing, and put in his own cronies...May 28 22:55
neighborleeso yeah-May 28 22:55
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: why would Obama want to fix it, thanks to Homeland it is the executive branch that has more controll on how to focus intelligence and law enforcement then anyone else now. He will just close Gitmo and sweep it under the rug as to make things look different to the publicMay 28 22:55
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: thats what most reprisentatives do when they are ellected... appoint their own cabinet and judiciariesMay 28 22:55
neighborleeCarl_Rover2k12, what have you done for the cause lately , is what Im getting atMay 28 22:56
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: what do you think of the latest Supreme Court judge Obama appointed?May 28 22:56
neighborleeits fine to be aware..action speeks louder often ;)May 28 22:56
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: what "cause" is there which I can benefit fromMay 28 22:56
neighborleeyou mean us ?May 28 22:56
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: sure but because my opinion differs then your's it therfore becomes mineMay 28 22:57
neighborleeYou have the same lobbying power I doMay 28 22:57
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: sorry but liberties are in the United States were written to uphold the indivisual, not the publicMay 28 22:57
neighborleeafterall this is still america.May 28 22:58
neighborleeslighty flawed..but its here ;)May 28 22:58
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: why should a tax paying citizen need lobbying power, the fact that they pay taxes and participate in ellection is what MAKES IT A DEMOCRACYMay 28 22:58
neighborleeThat's naive.May 28 22:58
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: once you start introducing extra finantial incentives by businesses or collectives it becomes a plutocracyMay 28 22:58
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Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: once politicians lose touch with those who appointed them through the electoral process they can't be considered reprisentatives any longerMay 28 23:00
schestowitzLobbying should be bannedMay 28 23:02
schestowitzIt's direct intervention by those affectedMay 28 23:02
schestowitzAlso, elections should be run and funded by taxpayersMay 28 23:02
schestowitzThis includes fair promotion of all dandidatesMay 28 23:02
schestowitzBased on some criteria for distributing fundsMay 28 23:02
schestowitzCandidates must be banned massively where they are found to have taken bribesMay 28 23:02
schestowitzObama took many bribesMay 28 23:03
schestowitzHe said not from lobbysistsMay 28 23:03
DaemonFCschestowitz: Edelman and Walmart practically own PBSMay 28 23:03
schestowitzSo he took it from Stever Ballmer, his wife and other families from MSMay 28 23:03
schestowitzNot lobbyistsMay 28 23:03
Carl_Rover2k12@schestowitz: you can just tell by the latest ex-coporate litigator who somehow managed to become a district appealate judge of NYMay 28 23:03
schestowitzJust direct SOBs with 6-figure salaries they want to secureMay 28 23:03
schestowitzDaemonFC: I can imagineMay 28 23:03
Carl_Rover2k12@schestowitz: also the DoJ is now full of ex-RIAA/MPAA croniesMay 28 23:03
schestowitzEdelman was gonna be boycotted by IDGMay 28 23:04
schestowitzElelman should collect its staffMay 28 23:04
DaemonFCPBS was having money problems so Walmart dumped cash on them in order to get "Sponsored by Walmart" crap all over  the placeMay 28 23:04
schestowitzPut them in lineMay 28 23:04
schestowitzSent to prisonMay 28 23:04
schestowitz5 YearsMay 28 23:04
DaemonFCpart of the whitewashing campaignMay 28 23:04
schestowitzLater -- community workMay 28 23:04
schestowitzTo try and cleanse the damage they caused to societyMay 28 23:04
neighborleeI meant..use what term you wish...I just meant sometimes you need to be proactive in asking for changeMay 28 23:04
neighborleeive done that..and with luck I  will win,,,the idea is to try ;))May 28 23:04
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: and when you mean "pro-active" you mean the haves can assert their power over the havenots during every electroral campaign and do it without transparency so the public at large doesn't know what the hell the person they ellect may do next?May 28 23:05
DaemonFCGov. Mitch Daniels, known for hitting legislative home runs in his first four years in office, struck out this year.May 28 23:06
DaemonFCHe didn’t get any of the local government reforms he sought. Lawmakers failed to pass a budget — and even if they had, it wasn’t the budget he wanted. And his one parameter for an unemployment compensation fix — cuts in benefits — isn’t in the bill legislators passed.May 28 23:06
DaemonFCHiding under his desk....May 28 23:06
DaemonFCjust like I said :PMay 28 23:06
DaemonFCDaniels, who in his first term liked to punctuate each legislative season with a scorecard showing his wins, didn’t bother Thursday when he met with reporters to reflect on the session’s carnage.May 28 23:07
DaemonFCAsked about what he’d accomplished this session, Daniels said: “Well, we had the school discipline bill.”May 28 23:07
DaemonFCThat relatively minor bill, aimed at protecting teachers from frivolous lawsuits, hardly compares with the kind of success Daniels is used to, including the “Major Moves” Indiana Toll Road lease in 2006 and property tax reforms last year. Which is why Daniels immediately added that he didn’t “quarrel” with the poor assessment of this year’s session.May 28 23:07
neighborleeoh good griefMay 28 23:09
DaemonFCnow Indiana's house and senate have to have a special session to come up with a budgetMay 28 23:09
DaemonFCbecause our governor is a fucking moronMay 28 23:09
DaemonFC:PMay 28 23:09
neighborleeif you get screwed, and sit there and DESERVE itMay 28 23:09
schestowitzMoron?May 28 23:09
schestowitzDid you see CA?May 28 23:09
schestowitzDid you see CA's?May 28 23:09
DaemonFCArnold?May 28 23:09
DaemonFClmaoMay 28 23:09
schestowitzMcBainMay 28 23:09
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: funny thing is you see how corrupt the US becomes as this recession seeps in, rather then large corporations saving their earnings to keep their jobs or push it towards more R&D and product rollout they instead launder it into lobbying firms to push for legislation to get tax breaks, push out competition or even get granted federal funds regardless of how many tax paying employees they keepMay 28 23:10
DaemonFChe'd still be better than oursMay 28 23:10
schestowitzCarl_Rover2k12: and offshoringMay 28 23:10
schestowitzDon't forgetMay 28 23:10
schestowitzThey must keep their revenueMay 28 23:10
schestowitzNot by means of domentic employmentMay 28 23:10
schestowitzSo the likes of Ryan and his family get screwedMay 28 23:10
DaemonFCAccording to Steve Ballmer, MS is not reducing R&D budgetMay 28 23:11
schestowitzSo that those who 'own the country' can keep the swimming poolsMay 28 23:11
neighborleeCarl_Rover2k12, those days are vastly over..that was during bush policy..May 28 23:11
Carl_Rover2k12@schestowitz: btw, M$ is giving their Zune thing another whirlMay 28 23:11
neighborleeCarl_Rover2k12, we hope.May 28 23:11
DaemonFCwhich stays at $9 billion for this yearMay 28 23:11
DaemonFCbut who knowsMay 28 23:11
Carl_Rover2k12neighborlee: oh please read the headlines on recent Telecom Legislation in North CarolinaMay 28 23:11
schestowitzCarl_Rover2k12: yeah, let them knock themselves out :-)May 28 23:11
schestowitzIt's fuglyMay 28 23:11
neighborleeCarl_Rover2k12, as noted earlier..obama JUST got in office..he cant fix everything overnight..-=May 28 23:12
DaemonFCand it requires special software, and only works on WindowsMay 28 23:12
Carl_Rover2k12@schestowitz: at least its not sold in special Steve Balmer BS brownMay 28 23:12
schestowitzZune HD: guaranteed to work 355 days a year, bar DRMMay 28 23:12
schestowitzTakes takes Sabbaticals on December 31stMay 28 23:13
schestowitzFor the Microsoft cult... religious break :-)May 28 23:13
Carl_Rover2k12@schestowitz: only reason its called "HD" is because of the HD radio and not its anemic 480 x 272 resolutionMay 28 23:13
schestowitzYouTube is filled with funny Zune videoMay 28 23:14
schestowitzThey diss it on TV toMay 28 23:14
schestowitz*tooMay 28 23:14
schestowitzNot enough MS endorsements for broadcasters perhapsMay 28 23:14
schestowitzOne MS guy got arrested in 2007 for advertising ZuneMay 28 23:15
Carl_Rover2k12@schestowitz: was that the guy who tatooed Zune on his arm?May 28 23:18
Carl_Rover2k12@schestowitz: or is it the one with paint shooting out of a guy's bum?May 28 23:19
*schestowitz watches propaganda: 28 23:21
schestowitzCarl_Rover2k12: no, some due in SXSWMay 28 23:21
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Carl_Rover2k12@schestowitz: its funny how they say that even though the actual developers in most cases are only paid a flat rate for the work they are contracted to do. Then the publishers decides to sell the game at full price for years to comeMay 28 23:23
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schestowitzSPA...May 28 23:24
schestowitzNo BSA...May 28 23:24
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schestowitzCarl_Rover2k12: yeah.May 28 23:25
Carl_Rover2k12@schestowitz: not only that but now they want to controll how many machines you can install your game onto even though with few exceptions most games are a product and not a serviceMay 28 23:25
schestowitzWell, DaemonFC pasted it hereMay 28 23:25
schestowitzI wanted to watch itMay 28 23:25
schestowitz*LOL* 28 23:30
schestowitz 28 23:50
schestowitzRichard Dawkins vs David Brent (?) 28 23:54
Carl_Rover2k12 28 23:59

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