# IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 30th, 2009

DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC I'm trying out LossyFLAC on an album that's proven to be rather hard to compress May 30 00:20 normal FLAC only gave me about 25% compression vs WAV May 30 00:20 not bad, the bonus track on this album is 100 megs as a wav, 72 megs as a FLAC, and 39 megs as a lossy FLAC May 30 00:21 the whole album as normal FLAC is 597 megs, as lossy FLAC it's 344 megs May 30 00:23 that's with the standard setting May 30 00:26 lossywav can be more aggressive, but then the file is no longer suitable for transcoding May 30 00:26 this is a pretty good idea May 30 00:28 wonder why no encoders on Linux support it May 30 00:28 it's GPL'd May 30 00:28 gn May 30 00:32 *Eruaran has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) May 30 00:37 *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-206-247.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 00:39 Seether - Disclaimer II was 775 megs as FLAC, now 442 megs as lossyFLAC May 30 00:43 *Rendergraf has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) May 30 00:43 I'm impressed May 30 00:43 :) May 30 00:43 http://www.slyck.com/story1593_MediaDefender_Leak_Offers_BlueTack_Users_a_Reality_Check May 30 00:46 The total number of IPs used by Media Defender starting with 116 was 1,474. Obviously, BlueTack did block all IPs that started with 116, but how many Media Defender IPs were successfully blocked? When Slyck investigated, there was a common theme that blocklists seemingly jumped over several ranges used by Media Defender. After some extensive study using the Level1 list for anti-p2p companies... May 30 00:46 ...and the 'Paranoid' list, BlueTack would have successfully blocked 16 IPs. Thus, this sample test offered 1.09% protection against Media Defender in that range. May 30 00:46 *_Goblin has quit ("Lost terminal") May 30 00:51 gn May 30 00:55 gn May 30 00:58 *amarsh04 has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 01:16 *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-35-230.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 01:39 *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-138-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 01:41 DaemonFC : are u still here? May 30 01:42 yes I am May 30 01:42 have u ever coded for Windows? May 30 01:43 *ushimitsudoki has quit ("Leaving.") May 30 01:43 *tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") May 30 01:46 not strictly May 30 01:46 I did make an INF file to automate the removal of parts of Windows 98 May 30 01:47 what parts? May 30 01:47 Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, Frontpage Express, ComicChat May 30 01:49 a bunch of other things May 30 01:49 did u remove Internet Explorer? May 30 01:50 yeah May 30 01:50 and there was no Internet Connection after? May 30 01:51 no, that worked fine May 30 01:51 you just needed a different browser May 30 01:52 what about program that have auto-update? May 30 01:52 you could still install IE but it would be a standalone browser and removing it would actually remove it May 30 01:52 I used the Windows 95 OSR 2.1 Explorer shell May 30 01:52 so it understood FAT32 and large hard disks May 30 01:52 great work May 30 01:54 netscape would have thanked u May 30 01:54 *ushimitsudoki (n=ushimits@p6068-ipad11yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 01:58 ushimitsudoki : wb samurai May 30 02:01 hello May 30 02:01 gn all May 30 02:05 *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") May 30 02:05 *ushimitsudoki has quit ("Leaving.") May 30 02:10 *ziggyfish has quit ("Leaving") May 30 02:11 *ushimitsudoki (n=ushimits@p6068-ipad11yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 02:11 _Hicham_: IE is not as integrated as Microsoft says it is May 30 02:24 aside from programs that are written to embed it and the Windows Help Center, the system functions normally without any IE files present May 30 02:24 *DaemonFC_ (n=chatzill@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 02:46 *DaemonFC_ has quit (Client Quit) May 30 02:46 *fewa (n=fewa@174-21-88-43.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 02:58 *DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) May 30 03:05 *DaemonFC (n=chatzill@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 03:06 http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=55522 May 30 03:07 *fewa has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 03:10 *twitter (i=willhill@97-113-222-227.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 03:33 *fewa (n=fewa@174-21-88-43.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 03:42 *DaemonFC wonders if lossywav works in Wine May 30 03:46 *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 04:19 *DaemonFC wonders why people with a share ratio of 0.35 aren't too embarrassed to comment May 30 04:57 *mikankun (n=mikankun@unaffiliated/angelfly) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 05:01 *aidin36 (n=aidin36@212.33.199.253) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 05:07 hmmm, WMA Lossless spits out smaller files than FLAC May 30 05:10 not by a lot though May 30 05:12 *aidin36 has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Iceweasel 3.0.6/2009020409]") May 30 05:16 *kc6lbj (n=notranc@zima.linwin.com) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 05:31 heh, pay up for that WMA size difference.  $10,000 to$25,000 in advance please.  http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/licensing/licensing.aspx May 30 05:32 M$needs your money more than ever May 30 05:32 help feed Sweaty B his motivation May 30 05:32 http://oiaohm.googlepages.com/ITdomination101.pdf Little bit of a write up I have done how we got into the current IT Mess. May 30 05:40 *neighborlee has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 05:45 http://flac.sourceforge.net/comparison.html << There is way better than Flac or WMA DaemonFC May 30 05:47 cheaper to license WMA than MP3 or AAC it seems May 30 05:48 I would not be supprised if lossless wma is not just wavpack that is bsd licenced. May 30 05:50 if it was then both files would be about the same size May 30 05:51 like probably within 10 kilobytes or so May 30 05:52 the container could cause a slight size difference May 30 05:52 That is about right for wavpack to flac with wavpack set not to crush the poor cpu. May 30 05:53 wavpack only gets a lot smaller than flac when its cpu harmful. May 30 05:55 likr Monkeys Audio then :P May 30 05:56 optimFROG takes the ouch award. May 30 05:57 And it only comes in third. May 30 05:57 FLAC at maximum crompression is still fairly large May 30 05:58 compared to other lossless formats May 30 05:59 *compression May 30 05:59 tak is down right impressive pitty it closed soruce and windows only. May 30 05:59 hmm May 30 06:05 there's a Winamp plugin for it May 30 06:05 what else do you need? May 30 06:05 :P May 30 06:05 *neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 06:06 I run on Linux mostly DaemonFC May 30 06:06 Since I play my music from inside compressed zip files. May 30 06:06 unfortunately XMMS and Audacious can only use Winamp 2 skins and none of its plugins May 30 06:06 Yes the evil art of double compression. May 30 06:06 double compression will increase file sizes May 30 06:07 Not always. May 30 06:07 There is about a extra 2 to 5 percent compression on offer with about a 1 percent downside risk. May 30 06:08 It working out what files you should compress secound time and the ones you should leave alone. May 30 06:09 *neighborlee has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 06:13 looks like Winamp was ported to Linux May 30 06:13 then that port was abandoned May 30 06:13 http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?postid=2098015 May 30 06:14 it's a shame May 30 06:15 Not exacty abandoned. May 30 06:15 *neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 06:15 yes abandoned May 30 06:16 not developed since 2002 = abandoned May 30 06:16 *neighborlee has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 06:23 *neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 06:24 It stopped DaemonFC May 30 06:25 For the same old reasons Packaging DaemonFC May 30 06:25 AOL owns them and doesn't give a shit about Linux May 30 06:25 simple May 30 06:25 It stoped before the does not give a shit bit started. May 30 06:26 http://www.zdnetasia.com/insight/software/0,39044822,62054142,00.htm?scid=rss_z_eti May 30 06:32 http://www.osnews.com/story/21586/Mono_Moonlight_Patent_Encumbered_Or_Not_ Mono responce is kinda going main stream. May 30 06:41 about a year ago, M$ got hardware makers to limit netbooks to dinky screen sizes, 1 GHz and less 32 bit processors and tiny storage size.  anyone got a link? May 30 06:47 Linux is fairly unfriendly to proprietary software May 30 06:51 unfairly in many cases May 30 06:51 http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2008/09/microsoft-eases-restrictions-on-the-use-of-windows-xp-home-for-netbooks.ars  twitter That is when the opened up the restrictions. May 30 06:51 Windows 7 sees MS return to the first restriction on netbook size. May 30 06:52 thanks for the link May 30 06:58 MS wants to push netbooks down to 10.2 size and smaller where they are only toys. May 30 06:59 Hopefully produces push back and MS folds again. May 30 07:00 there were better articles where a leaked memo was published May 30 07:03 That most likely be hiding in schestowitz archive somewhere. May 30 07:03 I tried to search slashdot articles, because slashdot covered the issue. May 30 07:07 google is spammed hard May 30 07:07 and does not return the most damaging stories May 30 07:08 heh, I saved some of them here http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/04/xandros-microsoft-teched/ May 30 07:10 Here you go, the rise of $200 netbooks that M$ has fought against http://slashdot.org/submission/1010271/The-Rise-of-GNU-150-MIPS-and-ARM-Netbooks May 30 07:14 Cool article on MIPS laptops, Roy. May 30 07:15 Peter Charles, eh? May 30 07:19 brb May 30 07:21 Preston Gralla added to poison pen collection.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/206959 May 30 07:27 the name kept coming up for some reason. May 30 07:29 Caitlyn Martin wrote the nice MIPS article, cited here http://slashdot.org/submission/1010271/The-Rise-of-GNU-150-MIPS-and-ARM-Netbooks May 30 07:30 twitter: yes, he's NASTY May 30 07:31 I might let myself be suckered into a Palm Pre.  They sell to Sprint, which is my phone provider. May 30 07:32 schestowitz: Yes its my real name. May 30 07:32 When I was writing for trade journals I hardly mentioned WIndows May 30 07:32 I just write about what I know and like May 30 07:32 Gralla crosses the line by attacking something he doesn't know May 30 07:32 oiaohm: cool. May 30 07:32 Anyone who finds my gmail account emails finds to too. May 30 07:33 *Carl_Rover2k12 (n=account@ool-45732edc.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 07:33 I write about Windows because it is forced on people at work by idiots. May 30 07:33 *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-178-225.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 07:34 the more I use Windows, the more I hate it. May 30 07:34 it really has gotten worse May 30 07:34 twitter: what is your goverment like for supporting using non windows OS's. May 30 07:34 corrupt May 30 07:35 continuously, you see the US government being suckered into some kind of Windows only thing. May 30 07:35 Goverment forces OS selection of companies a lot. May 30 07:36 Use of M$software by government agencies should be banned because all M$ software is so standards hostile. May 30 07:36 *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-9-185.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 07:38 Companies like HP and Dell also push M$crap on companies. I discovered today that the place I work uses new versions of M$ Office because that's what HP shipped with. May 30 07:40 Just like that, the company let HP make a major decision for them. May 30 07:40 No study was performed.  They just rolled with it. May 30 07:41 An analysis of the list of Chrysler dealers closed down by the Obama-run auto maker show that many were donors to Republican candidates and Democrat rivals of Barack Obama during the 2008 election cycle. May 30 07:42 Many observers were confused by the list of 789 Chrysler dealerships that were ordered to close their doors before June 9, as the closings seemed to follow no pattern based on sales volume or profitability. Two preliminary studies found on the Internet seem to have located a common thread: Donations to politicians and political causes at odds with Barack Obama. May 30 07:42 http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/28/government-foul-play-shuttered-chrysler-dealers-heavily-anti-obama-in-election/ May 30 07:42 Saved his friends first, eh?  What's new? May 30 07:43 Because you must have MS Office more like it twitter May 30 07:43 You seem to know more about where I work than I do, Ohm, please explain. May 30 07:44 HP and Dell do not install downgraded version. May 30 07:44 any text editor would serve the purpose May 30 07:44 OO could be substituted just as well. May 30 07:45 I have just seen boss orders enough. May 30 07:45 without loss of record May 30 07:45 so, your boss's needs are mine?  ha May 30 07:45 I use OpenOffice but save to Microsoft Office formats May 30 07:45 :P May 30 07:45 it would be better to convert to ODF May 30 07:46 the sooner the better May 30 07:46 Its the sales pitch dell hp and the like do to boss's twitter May 30 07:46 OOo can open MS Office formats May 30 07:46 there was no sales pitch, they just bought computers May 30 07:46 but MS Office can't open OOo formats May 30 07:46 so I just save to MS Office formats so everything can open them May 30 07:46 Make sure its not MS Office trial version that dell and hp have been installing on everything. May 30 07:47 bad logic, FC.  Sooner or later M$Office always fudges formats May 30 07:47 Runs fine for 180 days. May 30 07:47 *Carl_Rover2k12 (n=account@ool-45732edc.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovell May 30 07:47 nothing would make me happier, Ohm. May 30 07:47 if you want access to your docs in 10 years, you want to save them in ODF May 30 07:48 *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) May 30 07:48 Basically order a computer without MS office from dell and hp get MS Office trial. May 30 07:48 docx will open 10 years from now May 30 07:49 Word 95 documents open now May 30 07:49 Even more stupid under vista you have to disable UAC to uninstall the trial. May 30 07:49 that's 14 years later May 30 07:49 why would you have to do that? May 30 07:49 just elevate the uninstaller May 30 07:49 Because while UAC is enabled the trial installer will fail to operate. May 30 07:50 Word stuff "opens" but it is printer and version specific. May 30 07:50 It looks like ass after a few years. May 30 07:50 Say land mined DaemonFC May 30 07:50 OOXML documents just how screwed up .DOC really was May 30 07:50 stuff from Mac would not work the same way as M$ versions, for example May 30 07:51 and I've seen what happens with fonts and other stuff when you move from one computer to another.  FUBaR May 30 07:51 *amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) May 30 07:52 That is still something odf lacks. May 30 07:52 Font embededing May 30 07:52 *DaemonFC is not a huge fan of ODF May 30 07:53 yeah, yeah, FC you hate all free things and love Vista May 30 07:53 ODF is a better solution to .doc and ooxml May 30 07:53 bullshit May 30 07:53 something stinks May 30 07:53 :) May 30 07:54 ODF has a track record or not screwing itself up. May 30 07:54 how long has it been around now? May 30 07:54 five years? May 30 07:54 ODF layout is directly based on Openoffices that is older. May 30 07:55 I've got way more confidence in ODF than anything from M$. May 30 07:55 nobody uses it May 30 07:55 it's fairly bloated May 30 07:55 more people use ODF than OOXML May 30 07:55 it's not supported well in anything but OOo May 30 07:55 That is wrong DaemonFC May 30 07:55 There are quite a few applications that support ODF well. May 30 07:55 AbiWord has only minimal support for it May 30 07:55 *amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) May 30 07:56 AbiWord was made for something else, FC. That they have ODF support at all is a miracle of software freedom. May 30 07:56 Koffice? Fuck if I know. I won't use KDE May 30 07:56 so what does that leave us? May 30 07:56 it leaves you on Vista May 30 07:56 ha ha May 30 07:57 or a KDE look alike, Windows 7 May 30 07:57 well, what works cross platform and supports ODF? May 30 07:57 OpenOffice is about it May 30 07:58 OO May 30 07:58 Google Docs May 30 07:58 Lotus Notes May 30 07:58 bullshit May 30 07:58 ? May 30 07:58 cloud computing bullshit May 30 07:58 is that rain in Redmond? May 30 07:58 I don't think ODF is any real threat to MS Office May 30 07:58 considering that it's incompatible and only supported well by one office suite May 30 07:59 People use Google Docs for cooperative projects. It's a lot easier than other stuff on Winblows. May 30 07:59 they can give away OOo for free and still not have anyone using it May 30 07:59 just cause it's not MS Office May 30 07:59 Doc and OOXML is only support by 1 application well event then its not perfect. May 30 07:59 OOXML "support" is impossible May 30 08:00 MS even fails its own standard tests with OOXML, May 30 08:00 the spec is incomplete and contradictory May 30 08:00 With ODF there are applications that can pass the ODF standard test. May 30 08:00 *kc6lbj has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 08:01 \it doesn't matter May 30 08:01 it should never have passed ISO and what passed ISO is not in M$ Office May 30 08:01 OpenOffice Koffice 2.0 May 30 08:01 MS Office supports it May 30 08:01 They both pass. May 30 08:01 universities and employers make you use May 30 08:01 *it May 30 08:01 Both will be cross platform. May 30 08:01 so ODF is pointless May 30 08:01 So you have two vendors. May 30 08:01 Both that support it well. May 30 08:01 There are even other closed source vendors that support ODF well. May 30 08:01 no one really uses OOXML May 30 08:02 if you try mailing that stuff around, you will have it returned to you. May 30 08:02 Heck the plugin that makes MS office work with ODF basically required installing ODF. May 30 08:02 People also hate the new M$Office May 30 08:02 In the form of OpenOffice May 30 08:02 Let's see if Obama mandates ODF May 30 08:03 that would fix a lot of things May 30 08:03 lmao May 30 08:03 Communism May 30 08:03 ODF is also becoming mandated in a lot of countries. So you are saying you will not do business with a company because you cannot produce ODF. May 30 08:03 hell why not have a little more communism? May 30 08:03 stick it in HIPPA, require it for IRS - such is the current "support" for M$ and Adobe. May 30 08:04 He's already nationalized everything else May 30 08:04 may as well tell us what file formats to use May 30 08:04 ODF is also one of the internaliation archive formats. May 30 08:04 and what color to shit May 30 08:04 :P May 30 08:04 ODF and PDF. May 30 08:04 PS DOC and OOXML don't pass. May 30 08:04 moving from a single vendor spec to a free spec is a move towards a free market and away from "communism", FC May 30 08:04 and are not allowed to be used in long term archives. May 30 08:04 Back to free market boot camp for you. May 30 08:04 no, ODF will lose in a free market May 30 08:05 so you feel like choice needs to be removed May 30 08:05 that's communism May 30 08:05 In a free market Doc and OOXML should lose. May 30 08:05 when government uses M$, they remove your choice to use other formats. May 30 08:05 Because they have major documentation errors. May 30 08:05 that's communism May 30 08:05 yeah, that's the EU May 30 08:05 your point? May 30 08:06 when government follows specs, that promotes real competition - that's a free market May 30 08:06 Long term storage market is a free market. May 30 08:06 the EU really doesn't care about monopolies or anticompetitive behavior May 30 08:06 If a format meets the require state it is allowed. May 30 08:06 they just want to tax American companies May 30 08:06 Number 1 being documented correctly. May 30 08:06 to prop up their ownm May 30 08:06 M$ is free to compete as well, FC May 30 08:06 they never go after any European companies May 30 08:07 Doc and OOXML does not get past stage 1 in the archive market. May 30 08:07 only American companies May 30 08:07 They have had years to prepare ODF for their stuff, but refused. May 30 08:07 So both when sent to archives have to be processed. May 30 08:07 because of that, they will fail May 30 08:07 Goverments save themselves money forbiding them. May 30 08:07 If Microsoft was based in the EU, this would never be going on May 30 08:07 or Intel for that matter May 30 08:07 Since country wide archives don't have to double handle. May 30 08:07 It is a free market DaemonFC May 30 08:08 It's not a matter of banning, it's a matter of using free and open specs.  M$just happens not to qualify and that's their own failure. May 30 08:08 *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-187-220.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 08:08 MS is just failing to meet the requirements. May 30 08:08 MS ODF was forced or lot of places they would have been banned out right. May 30 08:08 Due to requiring too much extra processing. May 30 08:08 DaemonFC: Think about archiving process. May 30 08:09 ODF's time is short May 30 08:09 it's already obsolete May 30 08:09 even in technical terms May 30 08:09 Every single docuement has to be processed using Doc or OOXML. May 30 08:09 What is going to replace ODF. May 30 08:09 FC, your head is firmly buried in Vista May 30 08:09 Don't say OOXML. May 30 08:09 Its specs are invaild. May 30 08:09 ODF will be short lived and scarcely remembered May 30 08:10 Only something with valid specs can pass for archive usage. May 30 08:10 its replacement is already here May 30 08:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_Document_Format May 30 08:10 it'll be nice when the 10 billion paqge ODF spec is sold for toilet paper May 30 08:11 if you ask me May 30 08:11 because that's about what it's worth May 30 08:11 spec is less than eight hundred pages, FC May 30 08:11 here's a funny, WSJ calls bullshit on bing http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124364504325068315.html May 30 08:11 http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/ Yer right DaemonFC May 30 08:11 Appaerntly you have not read CDF specs. May 30 08:12 It is a valid archive format yes. May 30 08:12 But sorry its not suitable for a lot of uses DaemonFC May 30 08:12 ODF is a coat hanger abortion May 30 08:13 dead before it started in the most horrible manner possible May 30 08:13 FC misspells Vista 7 May 30 08:13 ignores reality May 30 08:13 Bing is also sure to fail May 30 08:14 ODF also suffers from a number of technical limitations May 30 08:14 ODF is going to disappear DaemonFC. May 30 08:14 List them. May 30 08:14 aggravating ones, some of them May 30 08:14 Sorry lot of those technical limitations are crap. May 30 08:14 * Use of MathML for mathematical typesetting in the ODF specification. MathML[48] is a W3C recommendation for the "inclusion of mathematical expressions in Web pages" and "machine to machine communication" that has been around since about 1999. However, most mathematicians continue to use the much older TeX format as their main method for typesetting complex mathematical formulae. TeX is... May 30 08:14 ...not an ISO standard, but is fully documented and is the de facto standard for typesetting mathematical expressions. There exists a converter from (La)TeX to ODT, including mathematical formulas.[49] OpenDocument is also criticized for not using the ISO 12083:1994 standard for mathematical formulae, which is not used within MathML either. MathML has a few issues with displaying mathematical form May 30 08:14 ulae well, compared to other methods like TeX.[50] May 30 08:14 * No version of ODF up to and including 1.1 defines a mathematical formula language.[51] This means that standard conforming files do not have to be compatible. OASIS is working on creating a standard formula language (OpenFormula) for OpenDocument v1.2 which was due in 2007. May 30 08:14 * The OpenDocument ISO specification does not allow for tables in presentations.[52] OpenDocument 1.1 allows tables to appear inside a draw:text-box element, which can appear inside draw:frame in a presentation. May 30 08:14 * Different applications using ODF as a standard document format have different methods of providing macro/scripting capabilities. There is no macro language specified in ODF. Users and developers differ on whether inclusion of a standard scripting language would be desirable.[53] May 30 08:14 * Even though OpenOffice.org allows digital signatures and stores them in ODF files according to XML-DSig, the OpenDocument Format 1.0-1.1 itself has no reference to the digital signature. Digital signature is application-specific feature in the OpenDocument v1.1 standard. However, OpenDocument v1.2 will incorporate XML-DSig in the same fashion as in OpenOffice.org. Thus OpenDocument... May 30 08:14 *DaemonFC has quit (Excess Flood) May 30 08:14 ha ha May 30 08:15 *DaemonFC (n=chatzill@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 08:15 see, I listed them and triggered the flood detection May 30 08:15 ODF is fucking shit May 30 08:15 And that list is on the workgroup fix list. May 30 08:15 The OpenDocument ISO specification does not allow for tables in presentations.[52] OpenDocument 1.1 allows tables to appear inside a draw:text-box element, which can appear inside draw:frame in a presentation. May 30 08:16 that was my favorite May 30 08:16 MS Office has supported this since when? May 30 08:16 forever? May 30 08:16 I smell a M$ collusion.  " The links, powered by a travel search engine called Farecast that Microsoft acquired last year, lead to a Bing Travel site from which users can link to airline sites to purchase tickets." May 30 08:17 Ok do me a document in MS Office.  1 page landscape 1 page portate down through the complete document DaemonFC May 30 08:17 For 10 pages. May 30 08:17 Using airline suckage to prop up Msearch. May 30 08:17 You are about to have a problem. May 30 08:17 Basically, they are going to wreck air flight. May 30 08:18 doc ooxml and odf have some limitations. May 30 08:18 Air fare search has really sucked lately. I have this sneaking suspicion about that. May 30 08:19 I can't submit documents to the state or to the federal government in ODF, no university accepts them, and if you try to send your resume as an ODF, it won't even be looked at May 30 08:19 because most people won't even bother trying to figure out how to open it May 30 08:19 that's what print to pdf is for, FC May 30 08:19 And pdf wraped odf is for. May 30 08:19 I thought you were making excuses for ODF May 30 08:19 Solution to that head ache was worked out. May 30 08:20 If I want to collaborate with someone, I'll use ODF and Google Docs, FC May 30 08:20 And has been included in pdf standard by the way. May 30 08:20 Microsoft Windows as Matter of National Insecurity < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/30/national-insecurity-windows/ > May 30 08:20 that's a different purpose than a resume, which is a form of publication. May 30 08:20 collaboration leads to publication a lot easier my way May 30 08:20 PDF great archival format. May 30 08:21 there are no good office file formats, either the licensing sucks, they're technically hobbled, or both May 30 08:21 Complete bastard to edit is a PDF. May 30 08:21 and fewer people bother asking for DOC resumes, thank goodness. May 30 08:21 it's like the version 4 internet browsers May 30 08:21 battling to be the most incompatible they can be May 30 08:21 IE 4, not so different from IE 8 May 30 08:22 PDF+ODF solved each of there problems. May 30 08:22 still hating standards May 30 08:22 IE 8 is quite a bit different May 30 08:22 :) May 30 08:22 Lack people with the applciations to ODF and PDF edit issue. May 30 08:22 but that's not really a fair comparison May 30 08:22 IE 8 is not up on standards either. May 30 08:22 IE 8's purpose is the same as IE 4's, but fewer people will use it May 30 08:22 in comparison, IE 8 is as bad to other current browsers as IE 4 was to browsers in 1997 May 30 08:23 IE 8 is standards hostile, as every version has been May 30 08:23 IE 7 and 8 don't add any new proprietary crap into the rendering engine itself May 30 08:23 that's what Silverlight is for May 30 08:23 IE 8 is probably further behind as far as ease of use May 30 08:23 Problem is now some of the most popular sites out there are going standard. May 30 08:23 that's not a problem May 30 08:24 No Silverlight or flash. May 30 08:24 cool May 30 08:24 IE don't support it so poor users. May 30 08:24 bye bye IE May 30 08:24 you can write a valid page that renders fine in IE 8 May 30 08:24 Secound browser war this time IE losses. May 30 08:24 you couldn't in IE 6 May 30 08:24 it was impossible May 30 08:24 Html5 video tags DaemonFC May 30 08:24 everything you tried to do, there was some rendering bug May 30 08:25 Or other more advance features. May 30 08:25 that's not a big deal May 30 08:25 Now in standard. May 30 08:25 It's what IE 8 won't render that counts FC May 30 08:25 IE has an add on framework May 30 08:25 that could be easily added by third party extensions May 30 08:25 good luck with that May 30 08:25 who's going to bother? May 30 08:26 you? May 30 08:26 you may be surprised May 30 08:26 MS is basically being forced to come into alignment or die. May 30 08:26 they chose to die May 30 08:26 there was an IE 6 add on to fix its CSS bugs May 30 08:26 fixed most of the worst things it did May 30 08:26 actually May 30 08:26 Why bother DaemonFC May 30 08:26 Firefox installs. May 30 08:26 I did not know IE worked with CSS yet May 30 08:26 Same with others. May 30 08:27 IE 8 has full support for CSS 2.1 May 30 08:27 Not important. May 30 08:27 So does basically everyone else. May 30 08:27 IE 8 is basically dead man walking. May 30 08:27 IE 8 has full interoperabiltiy with M fail. May 30 08:28 Web developers are sick of the crap.  Of sites not rendering due to plugins missing. May 30 08:28 *magentar (n=magentar@213-10.206-83.static-ip.oleane.fr) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 08:28 amen May 30 08:28 twitter needs sleep, gn May 30 08:28 Its now basically support the standard or die. May 30 08:28 http://news.deviantart.com/article/74674/ May 30 08:30 DeviantArt is pimping IE 8 May 30 08:30 :P May 30 08:30 And offline gmail and other offline web application will not work in that. May 30 08:32 Does not play videos as per standard. May 30 08:32 Does not have offline support as per standard. May 30 08:32 I can see user really hating it. May 30 08:32 As the next generation browsers come out.  Hopefully IE 9 is not far away for MS sake. May 30 08:33 I tried IE 8, I was hoping for a lot more May 30 08:33 it was abandoned for so many years that they are still playing catch up May 30 08:34 well, MS announced that new IE versions would only be available with new versions of Windows back in like 2004 May 30 08:34 they obviously changed their mind May 30 08:34 2004 they though they had won the browser war. May 30 08:36 And could do anything they liked. May 30 08:36 It was just in a temporary peace. May 30 08:36 This is the problem with being just a defacto standard.   When a true standard comes alone you are in trouble. May 30 08:37 DaemonFC: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/odf_ooxml_technical_white_paper?page=0%2C5  << Explain to me why designers have to remember by OOXML that 1990 is to be treated as a leap year. May 30 09:04 *_goblin (n=puppy@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 09:04 oiaohm, don't you mean 1900? May 30 09:05 Yep amarsh04 I did I double typed the wrong number. May 30 09:07 *mikankun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) May 30 09:12 Microsoft has grown miserable. ASUS Enters the Slog Business < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/30/asus-anti-linux-slog-business/ > May 30 09:17 morning Roy. May 30 09:22 *jbartosik (n=joszi@aasr70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 09:39 playing around with Office 2007 May 30 09:40 Outlook decided it was going to be my new email client May 30 09:40 :P May 30 09:40 it does put links to the ODF add on in the start menu May 30 09:42 I guess the odf add on that does not work right. May 30 09:43 and now I have the option to save as ODT from Word 2007 May 30 09:44 what exactly doesn't work right? May 30 09:44 When opening in other odf supporting programs does not always render as well as MS old hack for 2003/2007 May 30 09:45 Ie MS support went backwards. May 30 09:46 so send me a complex ODT file May 30 09:47 with lots of formatting May 30 09:47 lets see what happens after I save it with Word May 30 09:47 Get the odf test suite with the spec. May 30 09:48 Sun also has a plugin May 30 09:53 Sun plugin is basically openoffice wraped into a plugin. May 30 09:57 So works as good as the version of openoffice it was made from. May 30 09:58 XML Patents, Microsoft Aggression, and ODF Hostility http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/30/xml-patents-microsoft-aggression/ May 30 09:58 yeah, Sun's plugin is like 8 times bigger than Microsoft's May 30 09:59 Its openoffice on a diet. May 30 09:59 Office starts faster and has a better interface May 30 10:00 *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.81.18.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 10:00 looks like it supports PDF too May 30 10:01 To a point. May 30 10:01 I had a person use that end up with a low quality print DaemonFC and started blaming the printer because it could not be that the PDF quality out of word 2007 was poor quality. May 30 10:02 Office feels more solid, but I can definitely see why a lot of users would cheap out and use OOo with the OOXML support plugin May 30 10:03 Or my case I don't accept OOXML format. May 30 10:03 So I don't need the OOXML plugin. May 30 10:03 the version of Office I have retails for $615 May 30 10:03 and the Standard version goes for$367 May 30 10:04 so yeah May 30 10:04 if you have to pay for it, OOo is cheap May 30 10:04 Koffice + Openoffice does everything I need. May 30 10:04 unfortunately, the Star/OpenOffice user interface is stuck in 1998 May 30 10:05 I personally prefer Koffice project managerment over MS office version. May 30 10:05 They are design a new interface for openoffice DaemonFC May 30 10:05 Koffice has just been revamped. May 30 10:05 StarOffice used to be sold at Staples May 30 10:06 I think I grabbed their last box set in 1998 and got it for a penny May 30 10:06 they deleted it from the system and didn't know they had one left May 30 10:06 so they had to sell it to me for 1 cent May 30 10:07 :P May 30 10:07 it was a bloated brutish beast and I went back to Office 95 May 30 10:08 short story May 30 10:08 Only program out of MS Office enterprise Koffice does not have a program that intergates to replace is groove. May 30 10:08 Out of the open source office suites out there Openoffice is small. May 30 10:09 most distros ignore Koffice entirelly May 30 10:09 Its also slow. May 30 10:09 and procees to install OOo May 30 10:09 *proceeds May 30 10:11 Really.. May 30 10:11 Someone does not pay attention. May 30 10:12 go-oo is installed a lot.   That is a fork of OOo May 30 10:12 not really a fork May 30 10:13 a fork generally does not have to care about the project it was based on May 30 10:13 *Tallken has quit (Client Quit) May 30 10:14 It is a fork its still on 3.0.1.2 when 3.1.0 is already out there with improved font rendering. May 30 10:15 They tried to run staying gpl2 for a far while too. May 30 10:16 *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.81.18.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 10:16 Until they worked out that it was going to be unmaintainable. May 30 10:16 go-oo is pretty disgusting. meeks is pretty vile in the way he portrays upstream May 30 10:20 *schestowitz me watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ0iXQaD4IA&feature=related May 30 10:23 ushimitsudoki: he is May 30 10:23 I'm getting tired of the hypocrisy of some of the noisy Novell people. I might have to blog a line or two about it, even though I hate to get worked up. May 30 10:24 *Tallken has quit (Client Quit) May 30 10:27 http://www.koffice.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/kspread-invoice.png  Koffice guys have a idea of fun. May 30 10:28 ushimitsudoki: who else? May 30 10:37 jo shields is another one that is a blatant hypocrite in his arguments May 30 10:37 I don't mind people thinking different, but rank hypocrisy or "it's OK if *we* do it" doesn't cut the mustard May 30 10:38 Don't forget MR mono himself ushimitsudoki May 30 10:41 I'm working on a hypocrisy-based blog post. if you have any examples of clear-cut hypocrisy, send me a link. I mean straight up hypocrisy, like go-oo saying on the front page: "We believe that copyright assignment to a single corporate entity opens the door for substantial abuse of the best-interests of the codebase and developer community. ", but Novell requiring copyright assignment to contribute to mono. May 30 10:42 Does anyone but Novell patch it? May 30 10:52 I reckon it's just those MS employees like cj and Novell ones too May 30 10:52 Other people want nothing to do with Mono, except for sheep or boors who look at apps like banshee just based on power, not freedom May 30 10:52 They admire things based on hearsay May 30 10:52 There are some out siders dumb enough to be patching mono. May 30 10:53 I was dumb enough to give them some bug reports. May 30 10:53 Before I worked out licence state. May 30 10:53 IBM/Dojo, Patent Punishments, and Europe’s Race to Community(-Hostile) Patent <  http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/30/dojo-community-hostile-patent/ > May 30 10:57 I have been wondering how hard its going to be to create a offline capable webpage that can do what tomboy does. May 30 11:10 IBM/Dojo is IBM normal. May 30 11:13 They see something that should be patented because its good they do.   Then they give the patent to the foundation that created it as a defence item. May 30 11:14 They will even do what is called IBM barb wiring on the patent making it basically impossiable to create a releatated patent. May 30 11:15 So making the patent system a worse of a mess. May 30 11:15 *mib_a6l18c (i=62e9a5d7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-cd2eb9ca5cbfe2ba) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 11:16 Not really May 30 11:17 IBM could use its muscle to fight the USPTO May 30 11:17 But it can't May 30 11:17 Because of greed, aja investor intrests May 30 11:17 Selfishness is still a predominant ingredient here May 30 11:17 Selfishness creating a patent that no one can build a patent on top of. May 30 11:18 Cannot fight the USPTO but can make it impossiable for others to get patents. May 30 11:18 So leaving it with the most patent arms. May 30 11:18 *mib_a6l18c (i=62e9a5d7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-cd2eb9ca5cbfe2ba) has left #boycottnovell May 30 11:20 On adverage for each IBM patent there are about 1500 defensive publications barb wiring it. May 30 11:20 Basically IBM is slowly flooding USPTO with more and more paperwork they cannot lose. May 30 11:21 Each increase the risk that people can ridcule USPTO for approving patents they had the paperwork to reject. May 30 11:23 There is more than 1 way to fight schestowitz. May 30 11:23 It's a status thing May 30 11:27 For investors May 30 11:27 Vanity in piles May 30 11:27 *_goblin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) May 30 11:28 Keep investors happy and make USPTO a living hell what could be more perfect for a company. May 30 11:38 geekings May 30 12:06 *DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) May 30 12:13 My new entry: http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/2009/05/30/disinformation-disinfected-pt-1/ May 30 12:26 *tacone (i=975205f3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-21add59e5e1a13ee) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 12:32 interesting story: http://feed.torrentfreak.com/~r/Torrentfreak/~3/CLXyyjyelJs/ May 30 12:35 Is there any tool that relocates swap to physical RAM that's available to replace it? May 30 12:45 reducing swappiness? :> May 30 12:46 or do you want to hotplug RAM? May 30 12:46 *tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") May 30 12:47 No May 30 12:56 Firefox goes crazy sometimes May 30 12:56 FF3 May 30 12:56 And then gobbles up over 1 gb of RAM May 30 12:56 So other apps run to swap May 30 12:56 I want to recover (empty) the swap when I kill the fox May 30 12:56 What are you running on schestowitz. May 30 12:57 If Linux I can do something. May 30 12:57 Someone says: The server at boycottnovell.com is taking too long to respond." May 30 12:58 Is this true? May 30 12:58 It works fast for me May 30 12:58 oiaohm: yes, Mandriva May 30 12:58 There have been 1 or 2 dips not much. May 30 12:58 ulimit -a will list the ulimits.  ulimit as a normal user can only be lowered. May 30 13:02 So use with care.  It will lower the shell its called on limit and any program run in there. May 30 13:02 ulimit will just kill firefox when it uses too much ram, won't it? May 30 13:02 or fail to allocate, which might kill firefox anyway May 30 13:02 Yep May 30 13:02 cgroup memory controls are just as evil. May 30 13:03 cgroup memory controls will for sure kill it May 30 13:03 (at least it isn't palmos 5, where the _system_ crashes if an app wants too much memory) May 30 13:03 cgroup memory limit cause oomkiller to wake up on those applications. May 30 13:04 Former Xandros Director Charged with Third-Degree Conspiracy, End is Near for SCO < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/30/william-roseman-theft-by-deception/ > May 30 13:23 oiaohm: that would not help May 30 13:23 I guess the better option is to monitor FF May 30 13:23 Maybe it's a plguin that causes this May 30 13:24 FF2 did not have this problem May 30 13:24 I always have a memory meter in my main KDE panel May 30 13:24 Intersting.  snowy for tomboy is released under AGPL v3 May 30 13:33 *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 13:33 *Eruaran has quit (Connection reset by peer) May 30 13:44 *Eruaran (n=quassel@203.208.110.183) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 13:45 FUD Warning: Old Lies About the GPL Still Resurface  < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/30/lies-about-the-gpl-are-back/ > May 30 13:50 *tacone (i=975205f3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4a9a1ea2260e127e) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 13:52 hi roy May 30 13:52 MS is not going to give up on the GPL fud.  Its not just MS by the way lot of commerical companies pray that GPL would not be enforcable. May 30 13:55 Eruaran: what's new? May 30 14:04 Friend says: "See Google reinvent IM/email/blogging/photo sharing [..] how soon will bill write an article about how he invented it in 2003 :) "http://wave.google.com/" May 30 14:07 that sounds about right May 30 14:08 schestowitz: nothing new today May 30 14:08 "Still might be some problems today.  I have trouble using a direct link May 30 14:08 to BN today, but the proxy-cache works fine. May 30 14:08 The DOS and ad hominems can partially be used to identify topics which May 30 14:08 are relevant and need to be pressed harder." May 30 14:08 Does anyone has access issues to the site? May 30 14:08 still coming to terms with the bombshell from Wednesday May 30 14:08 Ok what bombshell. May 30 14:09 I haven't had any issies with BN this week May 30 14:09 oiaohm: my employer is leaving the company... he and our company director took me out to dinner and kind of grilled me and then offered to make me a partner in the company (so I'd be taking over from the guy who is leaving) May 30 14:10 That bombshell. May 30 14:12 shell --bomb May 30 14:13 Things will get interesting when we have more of line operating web applications. May 30 14:14 bsh: the Bomb shell May 30 14:16 Check who's content admin/webmaster at Bell Labs... May 30 14:16 I hear that "so many of the seminal documents from the field of computing are starting to go missing: http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bsdi/bsdisuit.html " May 30 14:16 "When you try to return data from Microsoft Query 97 to a Microsoft Excel 97 worksheet, the spinning globe icon (which signifies that a query is processing) may appear for a long time, and then the query returns no data to your worksheet. " May 30 14:17 "SOLUTION Method 2: Move Your Mouse Pointer If you move your mouse pointer continuously while the data is being returned to Microsoft Excel, the query may not fail. Do not stop moving the mouse until all the data has been returned to Microsoft Excel. " May 30 14:17 pretty nice :) http://support.microsoft.com/kb/168702 May 30 14:17 There is a beta one in access 2003 don't edit forumulars after they have been appled. May 30 14:18 Or you edit many appear to happen but the first entered be processed. May 30 14:19 By the way place mouse on top of sub wooffer and play some heavy base music use to work for keep mouse pointer moving bit. May 30 14:20 that reminds me of adolescence lol May 30 14:22 there was a mouse-moving usb device, too May 30 14:22 Microsoft Retardation 12.1 May 30 14:32 "the spinning globe icon"? May 30 14:41 What if you change the theme? May 30 14:41 See, that's where Linux differs May 30 14:41 Linux has the universal CLI May 30 14:41 There's no "spinning globe" May 30 14:41 There is no "start menu" May 30 14:41 *mib_ay0kmy (i=4c77183f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a60ff34a6d117aae) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 14:41 There might even not be an "error #000223ff May 30 14:42 *mib_ay0kmy has quit (Client Quit) May 30 14:46 Start memu existance in Linux depends on wm. May 30 14:46 or panel May 30 14:51 but you can describe the operation of an application independently of them. May 30 14:51 *fewa has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) May 30 15:09 *tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") May 30 15:11 *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 15:48 *neighborlee has quit ("Leaving") May 30 15:51 Novell’s 2009 Q2 Results. Not good. < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/30/finance-novell-2009-q2-results/ > May 30 15:52 *neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 15:53 neighborlee: I have something for you May 30 15:55 Spread this from ushimitsudoki : http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/2009/05/30/disinformation-disinfected-pt-1/ May 30 15:55 silent fart in church and hope no one notices: < ROFLMBO May 30 15:58 style DOES matter ;)) May 30 15:58 Hehe May 30 16:00 nice article LOL May 30 16:00 good one bookmarked May 30 16:00 Good May 30 16:00 Well, it's sunny outside May 30 16:00 back in 2hours May 30 16:01 *tacone (i=975205f3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0adfc26656e81326) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 16:12 nicely done May 30 16:17 BN a little slow, some broken images May 30 16:23 *Eruaran has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) May 30 16:23 schestowitz, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1173972 < might get banned on this one I dont know..but I was tired of the TUDE.. May 30 16:23 schestowitz, I doubt i'd ever use ubuntu again anyway due to  this TUDE yadda...using gentoo atm anyway..but this was enough I felt so there it is for what its worth May 30 16:24 *neighborlee has quit ("Leaving") May 30 16:57 *magentar has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) May 30 17:08 *kc6lbj (n=notranc@zima.linwin.com) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 17:11 *kc6lbj (n=notranc@zima.linwin.com) has left #boycottnovell ("Konversation terminated!") May 30 17:12 schestowitz, I've noticed problems with FF2 lately, so you may be premature in blaming FF3 for what may be javascript poison from websites. May 30 17:15 the solution was to run FF less, Konq more and avoid dumb sites.  If a konq tab freezes up, I go to another konq instance (separately started window) if I'm really in a hurry - rare.  Usually, I wait and kill the tab, which solves the problem.  If not I kill the browser. May 30 17:18 Linux already balances swap and memory well by using up as much memory you have on running applications.  Resorting to RAM disk and other old solutions will only slow things down.  Getting more RAM might help. May 30 17:20 I thought about doubling down on my 512 MB, ha ha, so that FF2 would not have problems. May 30 17:21 I might still do that, but things are running just fine today. May 30 17:21 *proteus (n=notranc@zima.linwin.com) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 17:24 Running Kontact, Konqueror, Pidgin a few terminals, Kicker and a dozen or so other nice little utilities. May 30 17:25 moving to the Kontact virtual window involves a little disk hit, but it's basically instant. May 30 17:27 moving to an older Konq window in another virtual desktop takes some time, 2 or 2 seconds. May 30 17:28 All told, Konq is sucking down 173 resident and 270 MB virtual. May 30 17:31 Pidgin is sucking down virtual 140 MB, an amazing quantity for something as simple as it is. May 30 17:32 KDE's messenger is suddenly more attractive. May 30 17:32 overall, I can see how opening up FF would start to drag on my system even if it and web sites were well behaved. May 30 17:33 I'm cutting things close on this old machine and I'm using a really old, slow hard drive -= 6GB laptop drive =- pushed well beyond it's shelf life and pushed even harder with full drive encryption. May 30 17:35 6GB for system, that is, 4GB usr, 2 GB var and something tiny for root all via LVM May 30 17:39 It's hard for me to remember how big the drive is without going to cfdisk - 30 GB May 30 17:40 swap size is reported by top as 750 MB May 30 17:40 var only gets filled up on apt-get upgrade May 30 17:42 *tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") May 30 17:42 ordinarily, it sits at a few hundred megs. May 30 17:42 it would be easy to get rid of my hard drive for CF without a performance hit as long as I mounted fast changing things on a ram disk var with symlinks back to CF for apt cache May 30 17:44 Just got back May 30 17:44 Yeah, I used old machines until a year ago May 30 17:45 40gb HDD at home and work May 30 17:45 welcome back, I was contemplating your swap problems May 30 17:45 Serves all right if you don't keep many apps open all at oncwe May 30 17:45 I'm stuck with the single laptop I moved with May 30 17:45 and a used machine I bought May 30 17:46 for $80 May 30 17:46 Well, it browses the Web, so... May 30 17:46 does just fine with my mail archive May 30 17:46 I have a laptop worse than that May 30 17:46 Could be put to use again May 30 17:46 The oldest laptop I still use is a 233 MHz PII, but I did not bring it with me. May 30 17:47 Years ago, a BRLUG member did this, http://phys.lsu.edu/~willhill/screen_shots/thinkpad_560-simply_mepis_3.3.2/ May 30 17:50 very funny May 30 17:51 very twisted May 30 17:51 I don't think I could put up with that, but it shows what free software can do with very limited equipment. May 30 17:51 it is no mystery that netbooks work well with hardware that's better than this 1GHz PIII and 512 MB of RAM May 30 17:52 *lis` (n=lis@pub082136122175.dh-hfc.datazug.ch) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 17:53 LOL " Hey, I *love* Bing.com's minimalist design, which out-Googles Google: a *completely* blank page, with no search box..." http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/1948505448 May 30 17:55 Maybe it needs JS May 30 17:55 I wouldn't try. Never visited that pile of douche May 30 17:55 M$ does not get search at all. May 30 17:55 "Simply Mepis on 133MHz P1, 70MB RAM" May 30 17:55 It's Ask Jeeves all over again. May 30 17:55 SOunds possible May 30 17:55 Elive can handle 133MHz May 30 17:56 Elive is very cool. May 30 17:56 I did an older version on a PII once.  It worked nicely. May 30 17:56 I'm suck on E16 for all my desktops.  It just works well. May 30 17:57 Bing is basically you trusting M$to filter the web. If that really worked, we'd all be using M$NBC instead of Google. May 30 17:58 M$keeps trying to force the gatekeeper model onto the web. May 30 17:58 Yeah May 30 17:58 Google understands that they are simply an indexer May 30 17:58 Intyelligence left to someone else May 30 17:58 Through selection May 30 17:58 Google does censor some stuff May 30 17:59 It's not perfect, either. May 30 17:59 We also lost some indexed pages because of DDoS attacks May 30 17:59 yes, but they aim to understand what others look at May 30 17:59 They still carry on, but get blcoked May 30 17:59 MSN was already doing censorhip May 30 17:59 Mry-Jo Foley clainms May 30 17:59 I have articles about it in BN May 30 18:00 IBM accused MS of thew same May 30 18:00 did you see where M$ censored truthout email? May 30 18:00 Like anti-ODF info when you look for it May 30 18:00 Microsoft is the Stalin on the Internet May 30 18:00 it was blatant, ignored user demands May 30 18:00 They have no ethics May 30 18:00 Neither will the results May 30 18:00 They know best May 30 18:00 They help you 'know best' May 30 18:00 Trust Microsoft! May 30 18:00 Google’s Public Policy Chief To Be Deputy CTO for Obama Administration http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/29/googles-public-policy-chief-to-be-deputy-cto-for-obama-administration/ May 30 18:03 http://www.waveprotocol.org/wave-community-principles. May 30 18:04 http://www.waveprotocol.org/wave-community-principles May 30 18:04 Germany: Delete, don’t block: It works! | UnPolitik.de < http://cyberlaw.org.uk/2009/05/29/germany-delete-don’t-block-it-works-unpolitikde/ > May 30 18:06 I wonder if they use these laws also to suppress political discussion May 30 18:06 They raised Wikileaks May 30 18:06 cool for Obama! May 30 18:07 Dirty secret of Vietnamese wildlife farms revealed  http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227103.000-dirty-secret-of-vietnamese-wildlife-farms-revealed.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news May 30 18:11 New swine flu cases point to invisible pandemic  < http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17212-new-swine-flu-cases-point-to-invisible-pandemic.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news > May 30 18:12 Oil firms and loggers 'push indigenous people to brink of extinction' < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/may/28/indigenous-tribes-survival-international-peru-brazil-praguay > Evil, evil stuff... May 30 18:14 Linus starts reading instead of developing...  http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2009/05/yet-more-reading.html Someone should pass him some RMS books May 30 18:16 about time, Linus! May 30 18:16 http://techdirt.com/articles/20090528/0226545039.shtml (New Law In Korea Means Google Bans The Uploading Of Music On Any Blog) May 30 18:17 at least he's humble about his opinion and admits he has not thought as much as he should.  I hate how the M$press twists what he says. May 30 18:17 ugh May 30 18:18 I wonder when Korea will outlaw http://magnatune.com/ May 30 18:19 Michael Martin was put under 'severe pressure' to fight expenses case < http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/may/28/speaker-michael-martin-expenses > May 30 18:21 twitter: he doesn't know politics May 30 18:22 His dad though... well... May 30 18:22 Someone from Finland mailed me this morning May 30 18:22 I told him to mail Linus May 30 18:22 === May 30 18:23 Hi, Roy, May 30 18:23 If you have some other correspondents in Finland, it might be useful to sort out the reference below where Linus Torvalds father is accused of being a Taistolaiset: May 30 18:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taistolaisuus May 30 18:23 If the article is in error or misleading that can be corrected and then criticized. May 30 18:23 The movement was almost identical to the mafia-like atmosphere and bluff that MS uses today. However, one fine day it was shown that they were bluff and they basically disappeared over night. May 30 18:23 I am noticing tremendous similarity in the historical methods and attitudes of the Taistolaiset with the current methods and attitudes of todays MSFTers. Also, the methods to fight either seem to be similar. May 30 18:23 === May 30 18:23 http://www.spreadthunderbird.com/node/228 (Calling all beta testers New Mozillaca) May 30 18:25 M$ works a lot like old Soviet states, all criminal organizations do. May 30 18:25 Centralized control, deception of members and the public, rewards for those in control, punishment for others May 30 18:26 The similarity between "free software" and "free world" is an intentional echo of cold war rhetoric.  The cases are similar. May 30 18:27 It is ironic that M$accuses free software of being "Communist" May 30 18:28 http://blog.digg.com/?p=779 (Some (small but important) Digg Updates) May 30 18:29 Yes, totally agreed May 30 18:30 > Centralized control, deception of members and the public, rewards for those in control, punishment for others May 30 18:30 Same in the patent system May 30 18:30 Bribe those who say "patents=innovation" May 30 18:30 Shun the rest.. May 30 18:30 *tacone (i=975205f3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-70edb8b7f21320f2) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 18:30 The consent system. Closed loop May 30 18:30 Well, yes, M$ depends on state granted monopolies May 30 18:30 that's hardly free enterprise May 30 18:31 *mtnd3w (n=gato@cpe-74-65-216-135.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 18:33 Secret DNA tests outlawed in Germany  http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227093.800-secret-dna-tests-outlawed-in-germany.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news May 30 18:34 bbl, it's time to do a few things away from keyboard May 30 18:34 *neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 18:34 *twitter (i=willhill@97-113-222-227.tukw.qwest.net) has left #boycottnovell May 30 18:36 Twitter Starts to Get Down to Business < http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2220&blogid=14 > May 30 18:37 Cameron wants techies to open up Parliament < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/27/cameron_loves_youtube/ > Spot the Microsft-cr* at the top right. The Register sells out May 30 18:38 *mtnd3w has quit ("Leaving.") May 30 18:38 Yahoo 360 is dead too now < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-yahoo-says-it-will-close-yahoo-360-again/ > May 30 18:39 *mtnd3w (n=mtnd3w@cpe-74-65-216-135.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 18:40 *DaemonFC (n=chatzill@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 18:41 The Inquirer is being very trollish right now. At the top of all pages it links to an anti-Linux site. May 30 18:48 *neighborlee has quit ("Leaving") May 30 18:49 GOP Belittles Dems' Climate Change Plan < http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7714028 > May 30 18:50 *neonfloss (n=neon@rdsl-0393.tor.pathcom.com) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 18:52 *neonfloss has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 18:54 hey May 30 18:54 schestowitz: http://www.itsbetterwithoutwindows.com/ it's not the same Asus + Windows promotional site. May 30 18:54 Oh May 30 18:55 I didn't click May 30 18:55 Could US Copyright Agenda In China Help Stifle Speech? < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090521/1837524968.shtml > May 30 18:55 i thought it was the same. May 30 18:55 I'm not sure about this... May 30 18:56 Attacking ASUS May 30 18:56 It's them taking a sort of bribe from Microsoft May 30 18:57 To shun Linux May 30 18:57 There's maybe some Hope{tm} left: Obama Administration Sides With Technology Over Hollywood In Cablevision Case < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090529/1942025059.shtml > May 30 18:57 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/29/army_website_breaches/ "SQL injection strikes again" May 30 19:01 More injections... PC-pwning infection hits 30,000 legit websites < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/30/mass_web_infection/ > May 30 19:02 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2347795,00.asp ( Google Reinvents Email, Docs with 'Google Wave') May 30 19:09 More proprietary s/w from Google May 30 19:11 To make matters worse, personal data is being put on someone else's computer (server) May 30 19:11 The worst of both worlds May 30 19:11 At least it's cross-platform to access May 30 19:11 *silentivm (n=renan@189.58.200.210.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 19:19 ? May 30 19:26 no open source May 30 19:26 google wave is an opensource project May 30 19:27 it will be opensourced when launched, as far as i understood May 30 19:27 and based on they're web framework (the one they use for gmail and reader) which is already opensource also. May 30 19:27 schestowitz: "As with Android, Google Chrome, and many other Google efforts, we plan to make the code open source as a way to encourage the developer community to get involved." May 30 19:28 http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/went-walkabout-brought-back-google-wave.html May 30 19:28 Converting video & audio files using ffmpeg in GNU/Linux < http://www.mygnulinux.com/?p=56 > Nice site theme.. May 30 19:33 tacone: ah, OK. I didn't know Wave would be FOSS May 30 19:33 When will gmail be FOSS? May 30 19:34 So that people can move their mail and account to their machine/s if they wish May 30 19:34 schestowitz: gmail i highly doubt it (but weave will probably replace it in google's hopes) May 30 19:34 Extensions at Google I/O < http://blog.chromium.org/2009/05/extensions-at-google-io.html > May 30 19:34 the gmail mail is already downloadable. May 30 19:34 tacone: you're serious? May 30 19:35 and further backup programs exist May 30 19:35 *mib_enr4by (i=5f502a33@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-74772736abc25ae8) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 19:35 mail > wave? May 30 19:35 unofficial backups May 30 19:35 schestowitz: you can download the mail via pop May 30 19:35 Seems like a long shot May 30 19:35 tacone: yes, I know May 30 19:35 *mib_enr4by has quit (Client Quit) May 30 19:35 I speak not about POP3 May 30 19:35 so, where's the lock in ? May 30 19:35 But the idea of phasing out E-mail May 30 19:35 phasing out = ? May 30 19:35 tacone: yes, that's what investors ask? May 30 19:35 Asking how to abuse the person to the point of paying out of misery, not as a reward May 30 19:36 schestowitz: gmail is a proprietary software. that's likely to stay. May 30 19:36 Yes, of course May 30 19:36 hmmm, the Zune doesn't even support WMA Pro properly May 30 19:36 I was being sarcastic in part, re: open source gmail May 30 19:36 for now, though, there's no data lock in. May 30 19:36 *silentivm has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) May 30 19:36 It's embarrassing when some pros use gmail instead of their own address May 30 19:36 Like they rent space for mail May 30 19:37 it's limited to stereo, which defeats the purpose of hooking it up to your surround sound system May 30 19:37 i'd like to be able to download google reader cache, though. May 30 19:37 *neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 19:37 i'm happy to use gmail. May 30 19:37 frankly mail servers are a big burden. May 30 19:38 "No codec delivers the marketing plot of same quality as MP3 at half the bitrates." May 30 19:38 lmao May 30 19:38 no shit May 30 19:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Media_Audio#Criticism_of_claimed_quality May 30 19:38 *silentivm (n=renan@189.58.200.210.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 19:39 Linux food (not FUD): http://linuxshellaccount.blogspot.com/2009/05/some-bizarre-foreign-linux-pictures.html May 30 19:39 win coders swear a lot as well http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/2/15/71552/7795 May 30 19:39 tacone: mail servers are like hosting May 30 19:39 Not a big problem May 30 19:39 hosting never comes free May 30 19:39 You get it with Webspace May 30 19:40 Google is not free either May 30 19:40 furthermore, the domain names have to be renewed May 30 19:40 They scan your mail, serve ads, can change rules, might not forward when you move, and so on May 30 19:40 having a gmail adress is a good guaranty the address will stay up for long. May 30 19:41 sure spy concern is there. and change rules and ads and so on May 30 19:41 You could host mail for a bunch of people on the same domain May 30 19:41 it's a trade off, you either decide it's good for you or not. May 30 19:41 I don't understand it when IBM employees use it May 30 19:42 i'm not scared of google for now. there's other people around to be concerned about. May 30 19:42 I guess they separate it from work E-mail, which changes if they leave May 30 19:42 i use myself the gmail address rather than @stefanoforenza.com May 30 19:43 i'll probably never drop the domain, but who knows ? May 30 19:43 even domain prices and rules may change. May 30 19:44 internet is not built on universal consensum anymore May 30 19:44 Microsoft's fear of Linux: http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/05/30/microsoft-backs-down-starters-3-app-limit-removed/ Celebrating FOSS, exposing FUD! May 30 19:44 Microsoft backs down? Starters 3 app limit removed? May 30 19:44 tacone: I registered mine for 10 years May 30 19:44 i guess i should do the same. May 30 19:45 *mib_hdtdfm (i=50629b25@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3a6cf6380d53c3c3) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 19:45 *mib_hdtdfm has quit (Client Quit) May 30 19:45 How many people are in #opensuse? May 30 19:45 I'm seeing notes about a meeting May 30 19:45 I was never in that channel May 30 19:46 10 years cost me $74 in 2004 May 30 19:46 Good investment so far. No renewal harassment May 30 19:46 hmmm, by changing the block size to 512 bytes I get about 5-6% better compression May 30 19:51 the resulting FLAC can be smaller than a q10 Vorbis file May 30 19:51 :) May 30 19:51 and still sound much better May 30 19:52 so by the time you're using Vorbis q9 or 10 you really should give up and use LossyFLAC instead May 30 20:07 :P May 30 20:07 LOL http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-29-026-35-NW-NV-0001 May 30 20:08 You've got to see it: May 30 20:08 http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-29-026-35-NW-NV-0000 May 30 20:08 "I certainly hope that Ximian (who call themselves "Novell" these days) will go bankrupt very soon. They are basically just the Linux division of Microsoft." May 30 20:08 Fro Citadel May 30 20:08 More Ebook readers run Linux (without DRM): http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9291899537.html May 30 20:11 LossyFLAC beats the crap out of high bitrate Vorbis May 30 20:16 both quality and file size May 30 20:17 I've been testing it on some audio that's usually very hard for lossless encoders to compress May 30 20:17 and see file size reductions of 50-60% over FLAC in some cases May 30 20:17 LOL, old stuff: "Instead of simply recommending that you sodomize yourself with a retractable baton, let me recommend a specific model - the ASP 21". The previous lawyers tried to use a cheaper brand, but it broke during the action. " May 30 20:19 http://static.thepiratebay.org/apple_response.txt May 30 20:19 ASP 21? May 30 20:24 Buy ASP, downtime ASAP. May 30 20:24 *PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 20:27 OpenOffice.org 3.1 Chart Feature: What to do with zero values < http://openoffice.blogs.com/openoffice/2009/05/openofficeorg-31-chart-feature-what-to-do-with-zero-values.html > May 30 20:28 *conley has quit ("Leaving.") May 30 20:30 *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 20:31 *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) May 30 20:32 *PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 20:32 *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 20:35 *PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 20:35 *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-187-220.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 20:36 *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 20:36 GeezerOS: Linux for the Elderly < http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry4392.html >. Offensive... May 30 20:37 *twitter (i=willhill@97-113-234-171.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 20:41 Another troll headline: Windows 7 Vs. Linux: OS Face-Off < http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217700419&subSection=Operating+Systems > May 30 20:41 No "deathmatch"? May 30 20:41 Or "x will kill y?" May 30 20:41 Stillborn vrs Giant May 30 20:42 DeathMatch May 30 20:42 how else can anyone drum up interest in yet another version of Windows that no one wants? May 30 20:43 information week makes my browser weep May 30 20:43 *silentivm has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) May 30 20:43 *PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 20:44 "Linux has been maturing" LOL May 30 20:44 *tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") May 30 20:45 -> " Microsoft developers have been pulling all-nighters and all-weekenders to make sure Windows 7 outperforms on all fronts when it is released late this year" May 30 20:45 All the noble sacrifices of those afraid to join the sad 5,000 who gave their all. May 30 20:46 and H1B "guest" workers who provide such a good example. May 30 20:46 surely the work of such generous and motivated people will be first rate May 30 20:47 Scroll down to bottom May 30 20:48 Tech Web May 30 20:48 no useful information found on page 1 May 30 20:49 They run many MS mags May 30 20:49 I just moved on to page 2 May 30 20:49 "Linux has been maturing" LOL indeen May 30 20:49 "Linux has been maturing" LOL indeed May 30 20:49 OMG, look at all those crazy icons down there. May 30 20:49 Maybe it's not so bad for a "maturing" OS to run 94% od the world's top computers May 30 20:49 Or most server May 30 20:49 *server May 30 20:49 or requires MS to bribe ASUS May 30 20:50 " Microsoft developers have been pulling all-nighters and all-weekenders to make sure Windows 7 outperforms on all fronts when it is released late this year" May 30 20:51 I heard this before May 30 20:51 Wait May 30 20:51 that was Nov 2006 May 30 20:51 When Vista was made May 30 20:51 2001, XP May 30 20:51 All those poor devs who worked from home all day May 30 20:51 True story, they said this May 30 20:51 Now with Vista 7 it's the same slog May 30 20:51 For a far, crappy, more crippled OS May 30 20:51 More DRM May 30 20:51 slaves never live May 30 20:51 always tied to their master May 30 20:52 Editors and publishers are May 30 20:52 So they hire the 'right people' May 30 20:52 it is difficult to tell how bad things are inside M$, but all the stories sound horrible May 30 20:52 Then here's the funny one May 30 20:52 From experience, they'll say this: May 30 20:52 "They don't pressure me to write one way or another" May 30 20:52 My reply: why did they *Choose* you? Maybe inclinations? May 30 20:53 Another one is: May 30 20:53 "The ads are separate from the content" May 30 20:53 Reply: what happens if you start ridiculing the sponsors. Might they take business elsewhere? May 30 20:53 And so on and so forth May 30 20:53 twitter: I have lots of stories about MS coming May 30 20:54 Poor MS.. May 30 20:54 Everyone is under pressure to perform.  The only difference is the honesty of the company you are dealing with. May 30 20:54 M$has obviously proven themselves less than honest. May 30 20:54 Hmmmm.. Ubuntu.... cool, yummy: http://en.greenplanet.net/food/fairtrade/560-fairtrade-ubuntu-cola-now-in-italy-too.html May 30 20:54 Employees will suffer the same way investors and customers do. May 30 20:55 I think they commit fraud May 30 20:55 But I can't say it so bluntly until it happens May 30 20:55 In IRC it's less formal May 30 20:55 Thus less sensitive to claims of "libel" May 30 20:55 Other journalists too would tell me privately that they suspect this May 30 20:56 Yes, I've seen some of the threats you have gotten lately. May 30 20:56 M$ resorts to this. May 30 20:56 How many years did people say Madoff was a fraudster? May 30 20:56 Let me tell you how it works May 30 20:56 It's a classic May 30 20:56 Here is how it starts: May 30 20:56 Company gets VC May 30 20:56 OK? May 30 20:56 Now, company must meet goal May 30 20:56 Deadline approaches May 30 20:57 Report coming May 30 20:57 If goals are not met, investor walks away May 30 20:57 So... May 30 20:57 Nobody that was making money off him said anything bad about him May 30 20:57 classic Ponzi scam May 30 20:57 Well... it's a live-or-die scenario May 30 20:57 So you fudge the figures a little May 30 20:57 Just... a little May 30 20:57 word of mouth from the people that you actually pay money to helps round up suckers May 30 20:57 "Just this once" May 30 20:57 OK? May 30 20:57 Now comes the next quarter May 30 20:57 Not only do you have to meet goals May 30 20:57 even the people making outragous returns had to know it wasn't kosher May 30 20:57 You must beat what you CHEATED for May 30 20:58 So you furge it some more May 30 20:58 Why? May 30 20:58 Well, you cheated before May 30 20:58 I don't feel sorry for any of Madoff's victims May 30 20:58 So what difference would it make May 30 20:58 they all deserved what they got May 30 20:58 Go all the way May 30 20:58 If you're caught you're caught May 30 20:58 So you cheat again May 30 20:58 The evidence of fraud from M$is that they spin conflicting news to multiple sources. No one can tell what's really going on. When people like you and journalists can't find out, investors should be very nervous. May 30 20:58 Year after year you do this May 30 20:58 Living in a lie May 30 20:58 Falling deeper May 30 20:58 Then you borrow money too May 30 20:58 Run out? May 30 20:58 Get another creditor May 30 20:58 Like a Ponzo pyrmid scheme May 30 20:59 Bill Parish has a nice such graph about MSFT May 30 20:59 About real revenue and others things May 30 20:59 got link? May 30 20:59 Microsoft engaged in fraud before. May 30 20:59 Fast. May 30 20:59 Fact. May 30 20:59 Microsoft borrow money now May 30 20:59 Fact. May 30 20:59 Microsoft losr$18 billion in 1998 May 30 20:59 Fact. May 30 20:59 it would be nice to see something more recent May 30 20:59 Microsoft is accused of running Madoff -like scheme by an investor May 30 21:00 Fact. May 30 21:00 Ballmer made weird remarks about the company May 30 21:00 Fact. May 30 21:00 I doubt they could be losing that much money May 30 21:00 Ballmer lobbies aggressively for bailout May 30 21:00 fact. May 30 21:00 I saw the Ballmer lobby for banks. May 30 21:01 hat in hand May 30 21:01 DaemonFC: wait.. May 30 21:01 About Madoff, you missed the point May 30 21:01 Some outsiders blew the whistle on him May 30 21:01 But noone would listen to him May 30 21:01 The SEC harboured him May 30 21:01 Madoff was the SEC May 30 21:02 /s/him/them/ May 30 21:02 twitter: yes May 30 21:02 That's the thing May 30 21:02 no, his "victims" were stupid and greedy May 30 21:02 twitter: yes, hat in hand May 30 21:02 M$is the NASDAQ? May 30 21:02 it's all in BN May 30 21:02 and deserved to lose that money May 30 21:02 Wait, I'll get you one old summary May 30 21:02 1. Nobody can GUARANTEE a return on investment, he did. May 30 21:03 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/03/summary-microsoft-financial-situation/ May 30 21:03 This one if over 1 year old May 30 21:03 I assume you're read BN for the past year May 30 21:03 2. Those kinds of returns are impossible. It was obvious he was up to no good. May 30 21:03 DaemonFC: speaking of "GUARANTEE a return on investment" May 30 21:03 3. The "investers" knew he was doing something wrong, but figured someone else would be hurt, not them. May 30 21:03 therefore they deserved to lose every penny May 30 21:03 Larry Goldfarb, Baystar, key investor in SCO: [Microsoft's] Mr. Emerson and I discussed a variety of investment structures wherein Microsoft would 'backstop,' or guarantee in some way, BayStar's investment.... Microsoft assured me that it would in some way guarantee BayStar's investment in SCO." May 30 21:04 Did he ever get his money May 30 21:04 For funding SCO on MSFT's behalf? May 30 21:04 Do you know that papers don't want to publish this? May 30 21:04 Perens complained May 30 21:04 They don't want to show Microsoft crime May 30 21:04 Sometimes they just help MSFT deny its crimes May 30 21:04 Like in Africa May 30 21:04 not while M$ has ad money to hand out May 30 21:04 Or OOXML May 30 21:04 They borrow some space to MSFT May 30 21:05 Where they publish denials May 30 21:05 and not while the papers are all failing May 30 21:05 Wait.. May 30 21:05 fraud, eventually fails. May 30 21:05 no useful information found on page 2 of that article May 30 21:06 Got this: "Cool.  I look forward to it.  You've been doing great work!" May 30 21:06 they spin the Vista failure for people who never used Vista May 30 21:06 Madoff deserves the money May 30 21:06 "The DOS and ad hominems can partially be used to identify topics which May 30 21:06 are relevant and need to be pressed harder." May 30 21:06 This is very true May 30 21:06 Also in USENET May 30 21:06 After a while they start hammering back May 30 21:07 They give up May 30 21:07 Attempts to gag and suppress topics by attacks May 30 21:07 I get that for writing about Gates scams May 30 21:07 The Microsoft spinners stopped attacking me for it May 30 21:07 They gave up May 30 21:07 No distraction anymore May 30 21:07 Same for Microsoft debt May 30 21:07 Got heaps of abuse May 30 21:07 they never stop attacking you May 30 21:07 Until people thanked me for pointing this out AGES ago May 30 21:07 it's their job May 30 21:08 *fewa (n=fewa@174-21-88-43.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 21:08 It was damaging for Microsoft to let it be shown May 30 21:08 the attack just shifts from one point to another May 30 21:08 "Still might be some problems today.  I have trouble using a direct link May 30 21:08 to BN today, but the proxy-cache works fine." May 30 21:08 Not sure what's going on sometimes May 30 21:08 Two people complained about access or speed May 30 21:08 We had over 10,000 UIPs yesterdays May 30 21:08 they are only quiet about any issue for a short time.  they dig it up again later when people have forgotten the details. May 30 21:09 Something like that... May 30 21:09 Then there's the anbalysts scam May 30 21:09 the attacks will go on until M$fails May 30 21:09 I wrote a lot about it May 30 21:09 *jbartosik has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 21:09 Some people now know the loopholes for bribing analysts May 30 21:09 The Comes docs (esp. Effective Evangelism) confirms this May 30 21:09 they will continue to try to get people fired, smeared and otherwise shut up. May 30 21:09 Paying analysts to act as shills. Payments by contracts May 30 21:09 Or MVP titles May 30 21:10 Like Wouter Van Gout May 30 21:10 We exposed him this moment May 30 21:10 *jbartosik (n=joszi@aasr70.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 21:10 Microsoft grows an army of people who attack its opposition May 30 21:10 It currently runs a contest where those using their blogs or sites like Slashdot to promote Windows receive prizes May 30 21:10 I couldn't believe it at first May 30 21:11 I imagine they stoop to services in India and China to reduce costs in routine abuse May 30 21:11 it's githt there in a press release May 30 21:11 No-one covered it May 30 21:11 dMos bombing and stalking May 30 21:11 They assign "buddied" May 30 21:11 "Buddies" May 30 21:11 They use this work May 30 21:11 Mary-Jo Foley told me May 30 21:11 She has Microsoft/Waggener assign buddies to her too May 30 21:12 They harass more than help May 30 21:12 She is well managed, I'm afraid May 30 21:12 if she were not, she'd be fired May 30 21:12 *jbartosik has quit (Remote closed the connection) May 30 21:12 She's in ZDNet May 30 21:12 She used to be in Ziff David May 30 21:12 *Davis May 30 21:12 Unless MS-Watch was only bought by them later May 30 21:12 But ZDNet is polices by MS May 30 21:13 An MS employee snitched on them May 30 21:13 They do this for a facty May 30 21:13 *fact May 30 21:13 Well,we only need a medium to expose this May 30 21:13 Medium+reach May 30 21:13 Then there's the smears against thge site May 30 21:13 Trying to blacklist it (technically or mentally) May 30 21:13 So we need to keep reputation decent May 30 21:13 Gets harder... http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/17/comment-in-other-web-sites/ May 30 21:14 I liked when that Mary Jo Foley exposed the 20,000 bugs Microsoft shipped Windows 2000 RTM with May 30 21:14 and they put her on a blacklist for it May 30 21:14 Windows 2000 only started shaping up after Service Pack 2 May 30 21:15 M$'s efforts must be expensive May 30 21:15 the more they stoop, the less they have for product and the more they have to stoop.  Death spiral. May 30 21:16 DaemonFC: any links for that? May 30 21:16 I heard that May 30 21:16 They punish her if she writes negatively May 30 21:17 They work like bullies that police coveragre May 30 21:17 They try to portray you as a deranges/crazy person. May 30 21:17 And deny access to employees May 30 21:17 Yeah, someone was calling me crazy here the other day. May 30 21:17 To ruin one's career as a reporter, at least those covering MS May 30 21:17 They have pseudo-reporters (PR) like Paul Thurrot May 30 21:18 they aim to ruin any kind of career you have May 30 21:18 I heard from other people... May 30 21:18 IBM can do this too May 30 21:18 Smears against dissent May 30 21:18 Many large corporations are able to.. May 30 21:18 There have been a number of people wrecked.  Perter Quinn, Guttmann, Bray, etc May 30 21:18 It's a team effort May 30 21:19 Some idiot like George Ou will pick at you to make you angry. May 30 21:19 Then someone else can say, "see he's unstable." May 30 21:20 ======= May 30 21:20 I won't try to dissuade you from staying soft on ODF right now. But to summarize, ODF is a far bigger danger to FOSS than OOXML. It's a giant connectivity bug in the free information infrastructure. ODF is massively under-specified, to the point that the format is in reality defined by the app with the largest market share. That's been OOo and clones but is about to change to Microsoft Office, whose ODF is incompatible with OOo/clo May 30 21:20 nes.  That's why IBM is going ballistic. May 30 21:20 But that's IBM's own karma coming back to bite it for deliberately keeping the specification in such a mess that Microsoft can validly claim conformance despite the incompatibilities. IBM has been pushing for ODF interop plug-fests rather than repairing the spec, i.e., application level interoperability, rather than document level interoperability. May 30 21:20 That has major antitrust issues because only the developers who attend the plug-fests get the advantage of the knowledge gained through the collaboration  The rest of the developers in the world are shut out. See e.g., U.S. Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice, Antitrust Guidelines for Collaborations among Competitors (April, 2000), < http://www.ftc.gov/os/2000/04/ftcdojguidelines.pdf >. ("These Guidelines take into a May 30 21:20 ccount neither the possible effects of competitor collaborations in foreclosing or limiting competition by rivals not participating in a collaboration nor the possible anticompetitive effects of standard setting in the context of competitor collaborations. Nevertheless, these effects may be of concern to the Agencies and may prompt enforcement actions.") May 30 21:20 And if you really study the situation, what you arrive at is that IBM's strategy has been to force a deal with Microsoft by pushing antitrust issues against Office and Sharepoint in the E.U. and we wind up with an ODF cartel where the spec stays dark and mysterious and only the big vendors can do interoperability, plus tactical character assassination on anyone who dares to submit an interoperability bug report aga May 30 21:20 bug report against the spec itself . But Microsoft responded by adding the native ODF support yet refusing to make a deal. So we get incompatible ODF being produced by both OOo/clones and Microsoft. May 30 21:20 It's a microcosmic view of the entire ODF scene. There are precisely zero different implementations of ODF that are interoperable. What interoperability has been achieved thus far has been by cloning OOo rather than fixing the spec. May 30 21:20 But those who want to use ODF but keep using Office for compatibility with their legacy billions of binaries (BoBs) and the groovy new Office features will be generating ODF files incompatible with FOSS. So we get  [...]: May 30 21:20 [...]  Except Rob is lying his ass off about it being a conformance issue. ODF is pretty much a check signed in blank for anything a developer wants to do, a standard in name only. Sun -- and later IBM -- have deliberately kept the standard in that condition since the TC's inception in 2002. The ODF Interoperability propaganda theme they played has always been a lie. One could create a document that has the ODF file headers with th May 30 21:20 e rest of the document written in OOXML and it would still be conformant ODF. (I'm not kidding; it's that bad and neither Rob nor anyone else has ever disagreed with that observation, which I've made many times after thoroughly studying the specification on that issue.) May 30 21:20 There have been many like [...] along the way who worked on the spec with the intent to make the ODF Interop Myth come true, but we've been blocked at every turn and had our reputations destroyed for our bother. May 30 21:20 There's far more to the story, of course, but the bottom line is that control of ODF is in the process of being transferred to Microsoft and IBM has no ODF conformity requirements in its arsenal to work with. IBM is reaping what it sowed and FOSS ODF is going down with IBM. May 30 21:20 Microsoft will give you a free copy of Windows if you rat out who sold you the "counterfeit" copy May 30 21:20 Yes, the  "see he's unstable." thing May 30 21:20 They do this to PJ May 30 21:21 Upset, harrass, provoke May 30 21:21 Wait for rude response May 30 21:21 Then cite it May 30 21:21 It's agent provocateur sometimes May 30 21:21 where did you get that nasty stuff about Rob? May 30 21:21 http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=113 May 30 21:21 Busted! What happens when WGA attacks May 30 21:21 Meh. http://muycomputer.com/FrontOffice/ZonaPractica/Especiales/especialDet/_wE9ERk2XxDBHijt6afbJrBvQ5c0qLR_u7EEmZaJ7wy1_xOW6cnEcwayMm37QQU0H May 30 21:22 twitter: private May 30 21:23 I snippet out some bits May 30 21:23 Well, it's crazy. May 30 21:23 DaemonFC: pls show me when MJ got attacked May 30 21:23 For showing bugs May 30 21:23 It's new to me May 30 21:23 The idea that ODF could take down all free software is laughable. May 30 21:24 OO is free software, anyone can duplicate it. May 30 21:24 looks like the cleaned the Wikipedia page that they were referring to May 30 21:24 the source code is more authoritative in reality than any ISO stamp. May 30 21:25 http://www.vistax64.com/vista-general/26933-windows-2000-released-20-000-bugs.html May 30 21:25 I do remember reading it May 30 21:25 but someone has deleted that May 30 21:25 you should be able to find it in the article history, if you have time to wade through it May 30 21:25 well, the post referring to it was from 11-24-06 May 30 21:25 so it was definitely on the Wiki then May 30 21:26 right? May 30 21:26 that should make it easier to find, just look for the date on the mods May 30 21:26 you should be able to reconstruct the page from that day May 30 21:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Microsoft_Windows&oldid=90901151 May 30 21:27 In 2000 a leaked memo from Microsoft obtained by Mary Jo Foley (of Microsoft-Watch) revealed that Windows 2000 was released with 20,000 bugs and that Microsoft knowingly released it any way. After this incident, Microsoft would not speak to Mary Jo Foley for two years regarding projects and information of any kind. May 30 21:27 unsourced May 30 21:27 made it easier to delete I guess May 30 21:27 # (cur) (prev)  06:55, 31 December 2006 Limulus (talk | contribs) (→Windows 2000:  moved MJF item into main W2K article; it seems like it would be more appropriate there) (undo) May 30 21:28 Three days before this event, which Microsoft advertised as "a standard in reliability", a leaked memo from Microsoft reported on by Mary Jo Foley revealed that Windows 2000 had "over 63,000 potential known defects".[22] After Foley's article was published, Microsoft blacklisted her for a considerable time:[23] InformationWeek summarized the release "our tests show the successor to NT 4.0 is... May 30 21:29 ...everything we hoped it would be. Of course, it isn't perfect either."[24] Wired News later described the results of the February launch as "lackluster".[25] Novell criticized Microsoft's Active Directory, the new directory service architecture as less scalable or reliable than its own Novell Directory Services (NDS) alternative.[26] May 30 21:29 http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,2076967,00.htm May 30 21:29 Bugfest! Win2000 has 63,000 'defects' May 30 21:29 Mary Jo Foley  ZDNet.co.uk May 30 21:29 Published: 14 Feb 2000 10:25 GMT May 30 21:29 Not everyone will be having fun at Microsoft next week. While the software giant and its partners celebrate the arrival of Windows 2000 on Thursday, Feb. 17, hundreds of members of the Windows development team will be busy cleaning up the mess. May 30 21:29 "Our customers do not want us to sell them products with over 63,000 potential known defects. They want these defects corrected," stated one of Microsoft's Windows development leaders, Marc Lucovsky, in the memo. "How many of you would spend $500 on a piece of software with over 63,000 potential known defects?" May 30 21:30 So, having disproved the major technical assertion of your private conversation, "the format is in reality defined by the app with the largest market share" and "we wind up with an ODF cartel where the spec stays dark and mysterious and only the big vendors can do interoperability" - I have to conclude that the author was making a character attack on IBM and Rob Weir. Nasty. May 30 21:30 According to the Microsoft memo, the Windows 2000 source-code base contains: May 30 21:30 * More than 21,000 "postponed" bugs, an indeterminate number of which Microsoft is characterising as "real problems." Others are requests for new functionality, and others reflect "plain confusion as to how something is supposed to work." May 30 21:30 * More than 27,000 "BugBug" comments. These are usually notes to developers to make something work better or more efficiently. According to Microsoft, they tend to represent "unfinished work" or "long-forgotten problems." May 30 21:31 * Overall, there are more than 65,000 "potential issues" that could emerge as problems, as discovered by Microsoft's Prefix tool. Microsoft is estimating that 28,000 of these are likely to be "real" problems. May 30 21:31 so by Microsoft's own admission, there were nearly 28,000 problem bugs in Windows 2000 RTM May 30 21:31 Looks like someone is trying to exploit and enhance friction between natural allies, Slog against IBM and ODF. May 30 21:32 every version of Windows is a mess until at least the second service pack May 30 21:33 The Ubuntu Cola has the wrong trade mark on it. May 30 21:33 that's why businesses are still rolling out Vista instead of waiting for Windows 7 May 30 21:33 Botnet size shows that no service pack helps, FC. May 30 21:34 as horrible as those Windows 2000 memos sounded, Windows 2000 was much more solid than Vista May 30 21:34 I mean not even their spin of Vista could save it May 30 21:34 botnets are people using Limewire or something May 30 21:34 that intentionally run the infcted package May 30 21:34 and get the payload too May 30 21:35 like your$700 copy of Office? May 30 21:35 that has to be clean May 30 21:35 type in keygen into Limewire and run what comes up May 30 21:35 that's not a Windows bug May 30 21:35 it's an idiot user May 30 21:35 blame the user for using Windows. May 30 21:35 :) May 30 21:35 no, blame the user for running obvious spyware May 30 21:36 insanity is doing the same thing for 15 years and expecting a different result each time. May 30 21:36 Windows users are insane May 30 21:36 no, users are May 30 21:36 this virus problem on the Mac will only get worse as it gets more popular May 30 21:36 How much does it really cost to make Windows useful if you don't run cracked shit? May 30 21:36 freeware and OEM stuff count? May 30 21:37 If you are going to run free software, you might as well run GNU/Linux, so no to that one. May 30 21:37 in that case, whatever the OEM license of the copy of Windows you're using costs May 30 21:38 OEM stuff is never consistent or enough. May 30 21:38 because Windows can run anything particularly useful that runs on linux May 30 21:38 plus it's own software May 30 21:38 LOL May 30 21:38 could be $80 May 30 21:38 trivial May 30 21:38 could be$99 for Home Premium May 30 21:38 You were just bragging about software that costs between $400 and$800, M$Office May 30 21:39 What sane person spends that kind of money on Software? May 30 21:39 no, think about it, every bit of useful software that runs on Linux has a Windows version too May 30 21:39 plus you can run Windows software May 30 21:39 Like what? May 30 21:39 which is why I said that Linux Unified Kernel is Linux's best hope for mainstream acceptance May 30 21:39 Tell me what Software I'd want to actually pay for on Windows that makes it worth the security and performance nightmares May 30 21:40 even if Linux wasn't such a hostile platform to 3rd party drivers, you'd still have the packaging nightmare May 30 21:40 AutoPackage is about the only thing you can reasonably do to package it once and run it on any distro May 30 21:41 I think you are caught between a rock and a hard place, FC May 30 21:41 and even then you have to bypass the software installer native to that distro May 30 21:41 Windows is not useful unless you spend a lot of money or used cracked shit. May 30 21:41 no May 30 21:41 you can use OpenOffice, VLC, Firefox, blender, Gimp...... May 30 21:41 the lsit goes on May 30 21:41 oh yeah, that third option, use free software - but all of that runs better on GNU/Linux. May 30 21:42 no it doesn't May 30 21:42 so you are crazy to go with the poor platform just to run what you could run better on GNU/Linux. May 30 21:42 if anything, VLC works better on Windows May 30 21:42 LOL May 30 21:42 becuase they don't have to strip out codecs and libdvdcss May 30 21:42 to satisfy the distribution's policies May 30 21:42 So, your options are : have Windows useless, have Windows with cracked shit, have Windows to run free software. May 30 21:43 you have to hack VLC apart to meet the distro requirements May 30 21:43 the distro deals with VLC for the user, FC May 30 21:43 even Canonical asked for a crippled copy of the Windows version of VLC so they could distribute it on their old "Open CD" May 30 21:43 the distro deals with all the software, that's why it's called a distribution. May 30 21:43 the VLC people said they wouldn't do it but it's open source May 30 21:43 so Ubuntu crippled it May 30 21:43 the law cripples free software, as you are so fond of pointing out. May 30 21:44 no, you need a 3rd party repository May 30 21:44 or else you get crippled VLC May 30 21:44 and it can';t play many things May 30 21:44 so, you are telling me that I should give my money to the agency responsible for those shitty laws so that I can enjoy free software on top of a restricted platform May 30 21:44 If I don't do that, and instead use cracked versions, I'm an idiot May 30 21:45 great May 30 21:45 no thanks May 30 21:45 *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 21:45 no, you could still get them from a more reliable source and virus scan them May 30 21:45 a good once over with ClamWin would probably be enough May 30 21:46 I'll just keep using community inspected software that works well without M$ interfering May 30 21:46 yep, don't drop the signing key May 30 21:46 http://paranoia.dubfire.net/2009/04/current-red-hat-linux-employee-fedora.html May 30 21:47 http://www.graphics-muse.org/wp/?p=201 May 30 21:47 I'm not sure there really was a break in May 30 21:48 FUD and lies. May 30 21:48 someone was trying to backdoor Fedora May 30 21:48 M$Windows has proved weaknesses. May 30 21:48 and got caught May 30 21:48 so they denied the whole thing May 30 21:49 and said it was a break in May 30 21:49 I'm sure people try to backdoor every free software May 30 21:49 It's hard to do because people can compile it themselves May 30 21:49 someone about did get away with backdooring the Linux kernel May 30 21:49 a few years ago May 30 21:49 it was really just pure chance that this was discovered May 30 21:49 why don't you just say, "someone got caught trying" May 30 21:49 facts rather than fear, FC May 30 21:49 cause that would be incorrect May 30 21:50 they had a high probability of success May 30 21:50 did they get caught or not? May 30 21:50 and through sheer luck, were caught May 30 21:50 it may be backdoored and maybe nobody knows May 30 21:50 maybe they didn't catch the next one? May 30 21:50 you run Vista. I don't think you have a grip on odds and luck. May 30 21:50 Wasn't home server claimed to have lots of bugs? May 30 21:50 2000? May 30 21:50 http://kerneltrap.org/node/1584 May 30 21:50 Linux: Kernel "Back Door" Attempt May 30 21:51 Why are you here, FC? May 30 21:51 do you spend all day researching FUD or does someone hand it to you in "talking points"? May 30 21:51 are you responsible for the sockdisclosure blog that you quote often? May 30 21:52 ? May 30 21:52 are you responsible for the recent DDoS attacks? May 30 21:52 Did you order the Code Red? May 30 21:52 I want the truth!!! May 30 21:52 I can point back to IRC logs if you like. May 30 21:52 but you know what I'm talking about May 30 21:53 regarding what? May 30 21:53 harrasment May 30 21:53 so tell me why you are here May 30 21:53 and where you get all your FUD May 30 21:54 Marc Lucovsky quite MS May 30 21:54 To Google May 30 21:54 Mr. Watch-the-Chair-Fly May 30 21:54 well, unfortunately security and DRM have one thing in common May 30 21:55 I'd like you to answer my question, FC May 30 21:55 no matter ho good the scheme seems to work, there's always someone smart enough to break it May 30 21:55 so I refuse to believe anything as complex as an operating system can be secured May 30 21:56 You are very well versed in M$ lies, FUD and other bullshit. May 30 21:56 without severely restricting what can be done May 30 21:56 Where do you get the time to research all of it and why do you bring it here. May 30 21:56 ? May 30 21:56 WordPResss got backdoored May 30 21:56 I don't have 20 other personalities May 30 21:56 Later there was a faker who announced a non-existent versiob May 30 21:56 that I use to harass Slashdot with May 30 21:56 With a back door May 30 21:56 saves me all kinds of time May 30 21:57 :) May 30 21:57 I have a feeling you have plenty of Slashdot presence May 30 21:57 and you harass people there just as you do here May 30 21:57 DaemonFC: we can see you have too much free time. May 30 21:57 VistaBeta7 May 30 21:58 It's not hat he has too much free time, it's that he's so plugged into M$lies. May 30 21:58 gave up on that for now May 30 21:58 normal people with free time try to get at truth May 30 21:59 he's digging up lies May 30 21:59 expert FUD May 30 21:59 *libervisco has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) May 30 21:59 I'll grab the final version when it's up on Technet May 30 21:59 why wold any person waste their time researching lies, FC? May 30 22:00 well, look at it this way, nothing with 10 million lines of code will be bug free May 30 22:01 Why do you continue personal harassment started on Slashdot here? May 30 22:01 the Linux kernel alone has about that much May 30 22:01 and about 6-8 times that much when you have an entire distribution May 30 22:01 you are not interested in bugs, you are interested in lies and FUD May 30 22:01 you have links to all sorts of bullshit May 30 22:01 about software you don't even use May 30 22:02 *libervisco (n=libervis@93-138-49-33.adsl.net.t-com.hr) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 22:03 no, a lot of other stuff doesn't even really get published May 30 22:04 the 11th Commandment, Thou Shalt Not Speak Badly of Ubuntu May 30 22:04 :P May 30 22:04 You are here to harass and disrupt. May 30 22:05 I still think Sun was too kind to Microsoft Office in their comparison May 30 22:07 http://www.sun.com/software/staroffice/competitive_view.jsp May 30 22:07 morning May 30 22:08 on pricing anyway May 30 22:08 but Office does support PDF May 30 22:08 so that part of their comparison is wrong May 30 22:08 good moring May 30 22:08 *tacone (i=975205f3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1bb45f94aa609b24) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 22:09 they also got the hard disk requirement for Office wrong May 30 22:09 it's more like 1-2 gigs May 30 22:09 Sun also has a whitepaper slandering OpenOffice May 30 22:10 lmao May 30 22:10 *DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) May 30 22:13 *DaemonFC (n=chatzill@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 22:15 https://www.sun.com/offers/docs/StarOffice9_TCO.pdf May 30 22:15 Sun whitepaper slandering Oo May 30 22:15 *OOo May 30 22:15 M$ hopes for ARM rest on .NET, that's rich http://thecoffeedesk.com/news/index.php/2009/04/23/net-could-be-key-in-windows-on-arm-netbooks/ May 30 22:16 could be true, if they were talking about Ballnux May 30 22:17 the author admits defeat on Netbooks, "  porting Windows NT to another non-Intel architecture would prove to be too cost and time-prohibitive given the current economic situation and the recent layoffs Microsoft announced, and according to Microsoft the NT codebase has lost it’s non-Intel portabililiy as the result of one of many design decisions of Windows 2000 (NT 5.0)." May 30 22:18 non free software does not have the resources needed to keep users happy.  If M$does not have it, no non free company ever will. May 30 22:19 Windows NT already runs on ARM May 30 22:20 the author seems to be aware of that past failure May 30 22:20 " So like Java has been doing for years as part of its core design principles ...." lol May 30 22:21 Java reeks of bad design May 30 22:21 and overdesign May 30 22:21 Why do they bother to copy it, then? May 30 22:21 to the point where the runtime is fatter than the application you want to run May 30 22:21 Why would anyone use second rate copies when they could just use GNU/Linux and java without cost? May 30 22:22 apparently the decision is in and now you are just left asking "Why?" May 30 22:22 I'm asking who's dumb enough to fall it all. May 30 22:23 Java is trying to be an entire operating system on top of the host May 30 22:23 that's why it's too awful to use May 30 22:24 applications written in Java typically take up about 10 times the RAM of a native application written in C May 30 22:24 that's where Java went horribly wrong May 30 22:24 brutal prospects for new graduates, http://www.newstimes.com/ci_12481375 May 30 22:24 RAM hog and poor performance May 30 22:24 It's worse than they say in that article. May 30 22:25 I really don't have any reason to care what the economy is doing May 30 22:25 What do you do for a living, FC? May 30 22:26 PC sales down 34%? http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/28/technology/dell/?postversion=2009052817 May 30 22:26 I'm OK unless the shit really hits the fan and all of human society collapses May 30 22:26 really? May 30 22:27 Dell makes crap, their customer service is crap, they sell crap at insane prices May 30 22:27 and they're finally paying for it May 30 22:27 from article, " Declining profit and sales. The company said first-quarter net income fell 63% to$290 million, or 15 cents per share, for the period ended April 30." May 30 22:27 good, let them go under May 30 22:27 they're overdue May 30 22:27 Where will M$get it's money, FC? May 30 22:27 http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/04/23/how-to-remove-mono-from-ubuntu-904-jaunty-jackalope/ May 30 22:28 no OEMs, no M$FT. May 30 22:28 there's only about a dozen other PC makers May 30 22:28 Dell has never been a particularly reliable one May 30 22:28 tell me how they are doing May 30 22:28 sabdfl:"Oh, and they gave me this nice T-shirt. (the ms employees) May 30 22:28 Always give your M$shirts to charity. May 30 22:29 I have a few May 30 22:29 my favorite is the Internet Explorer 3 launch day t-shirt :P May 30 22:29 Did you get them from Goodwill? May 30 22:29 nah, they send me stuff sometimes May 30 22:30 or have anyway May 30 22:30 Most people would be uncomfortable wearing them. Better to give them to people with a real need. May 30 22:30 I have a Windows Vista baseball cap May 30 22:30 :) May 30 22:30 " Dell's laptop sales slumped 20% year over year." That's what happens when you ignore the #1 idea on your "idea storm" website. May 30 22:31 hopefully, they will come around and obey market demands rather than M$. May 30 22:31 I wear my Vista baseball cap with my Mozilla polo shirt :P May 30 22:32 lmao May 30 22:32 It would be nice to see a line of 12" screen, low power consumption netbooks. May 30 22:32 You should wear it with some nice FSF shirts. May 30 22:32 More on Novell’s Finances: SUSE and Mono Failures < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/30/suse-and-mono-failures/ > May 30 22:33 I also have Halo 3 t-shirt May 30 22:33 If you have enough money to be comfortable until the collapse of society, you might want to give some of it to a good cause like FSF. May 30 22:33 that's funny May 30 22:33 http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Windows-XP-64-Bit-Edition-T-Shirt-XXL-New_W0QQitemZ200340410762QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea538118a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50 May 30 22:34 :) May 30 22:34 Or you could keep giving it to ruthless exploiters like M$, the local casino, tabaco and booze companies. May 30 22:34 I have a feeling that the money flows the other way, FC. May 30 22:34 tacone: *LOL* @sabdfl May 30 22:35 Does he know what the monkey mean? May 30 22:35 I did go to Las Vegas a couple years ago May 30 22:35 ms employees giving away mono t-shirts ? wasn't a 3rd party proj ? May 30 22:35 I can definitely see why they call it sin city May 30 22:36 interoperabillity May 30 22:36 prostitutes everywhere May 30 22:36 they sell themselves to people they don't like May 30 22:36 the casinos try to get you drunk real cheap/for freee so you gamble without thinking May 30 22:36 Sedation May 30 22:36 What were you doing in Vegas? May 30 22:36 M$ feels right at home there, I'm sure. May 30 22:36 getting an abortion? :-p May 30 22:37 heh, no May 30 22:37 just a vacation May 30 22:37 the pricing on everything is pretty reasonable, so they can get you there to gamble May 30 22:37 I won more than I bet May 30 22:38 so I guess that's technically a win May 30 22:38 even though I only made $50 profit :P May 30 22:38 not exactly set for life from the slot machine May 30 22:38 *Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-73-40.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 22:38$50 up on a $700 trip. May 30 22:38 Slot machines, worst odd in the house. May 30 22:39 bad math, FC May 30 22:39 I didn't figure that in to the cost of the trip May 30 22:39 I didn't go there to gamble May 30 22:39 now we might get an answer to Roy's question. May 30 22:40 What's in Vegas for you? May 30 22:40 besides whores May 30 22:40 just to go there May 30 22:40 That's kind of expensive unless you live there. May 30 22:41 Is there anything particular about the place you like? May 30 22:41 You know, something you might not find elsewhere. May 30 22:41 http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gLoAqmJIr0LMUlYG-xuUtBesvQVAD98GN1380 May 30 22:43 Anticipated hurricanes leaving consumers exposed May 30 22:43 heh, yeah, the insurance companies know global warming exists May 30 22:43 they know what it will cost them to keepinsuring those people May 30 22:44 HP having a tough time, " Sales of desktop PCs dropped 24 percent, notebooks were down 13 percent and revenue in the company's printer division was down 23 percent." May 30 22:45 http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=knowledge_center&articleId=9133287&taxonomyId=1&intsrc=kc_top May 30 22:45 OEM's that sell Linux are going under? May 30 22:46 that's a good thing? May 30 22:46 Linux friendly IBM and HP take top spot in server market, but it's a beat market http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/unix_linux/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217700892 May 30 22:46 at 12 year low May 30 22:46 I've just replies to FSF President May 30 22:47 There's big news coming next week May 30 22:47 I'm just doing a little survey of M$ OEM partners. May 30 22:47 what's up with FSF? May 30 22:47 can you tell? May 30 22:47 In September 2008, PC Pro discovered through a reader[29] that ASUS had shipped laptops that contained cracked and pirated software. Both physical machines and recovery CDs contained confidential documents from Microsoft and other organizations, internal ASUS documents, and sensitive personal information including CVs. May 30 22:47 At the time, an ASUS spokesperson promised an investigation at "quite a high level", but declined to comment on how the files got on the machines and recovery media.[30] May 30 22:47 lmao May 30 22:47 http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/224892/asus-ships-software-cracker-on-recovery-dvd.html May 30 22:48 Yeah, yeah, ASUS tied to M$May 30 22:48 94% profit decline, a poster boy for M$ cooperation. May 30 22:48 first losses ever May 30 22:48 http://thecoffeedesk.com/news/index.php/2008/09/20/asus-recovery-dvd-scandal-how-it-happened/ May 30 22:50 For those who haven’t already heard, the PC OEM company Asus was involved in a major scandal where a directory on the recovery DVD and inside c:\Windows\ConfigSetRoot\ contained a software crack for the WinRar program, software serial numbers, a resume (presumably for a now-jobless Asus employee), an internal Asus powerpoint describing “known compatibility issues”, Asus source code,... May 30 22:51 ...and even... May 30 22:51 ...an OEM issued Microsoft document, which mainly says “do not distribute DR-DOS with any computers”. May 30 22:51 Sony faces it's first losses in 14 years, http://www.geek.com/articles/games/sony-revenue-drops-13-loses-1-billion-for-the-year-first-time-in-14-years-20090514/ May 30 22:51 lol May 30 22:51 Yuck. Sony. May 30 22:53 Sony hates the Internet, loves DRM, spreads rootkits and I think workers right there are poor May 30 22:54 Do they manufacture in China? May 30 22:54 I love the twist, though: "I worked for 3 years at Asus, but I, er, decided to move on now. Oh, BTW: you can find my resume on your Asus recovery disk - isn't that convenient!" May 30 22:56 lmao May 30 22:56 http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=971211&cid=25101419 May 30 22:56 http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=971211&cid=25102251 May 30 22:57 heh May 30 22:57 I got a game demo disc at EB Games about 10 years ago May 30 22:59 that had the Chernobyl virus on it May 30 22:59 Hehe. May 30 23:05 I didn't  know about this Slashdot story May 30 23:05 But... May 30 23:06 There was an MSI blooper a while back May 30 23:06 I think MSI left some videos on the HDD May 30 23:06 Counterfeited May 30 23:06 They had to recall the Linux units, IIRC May 30 23:06 Microsoft-Sponsored Czech Presidency Fights Google? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/30/czech-presidency-anti-google/ > May 30 23:07 yiked May 30 23:13 *yikes May 30 23:13 this Taliban situation in Pakistan sounds brutal May 30 23:13 I wonder why they waited so long to do anything about it May 30 23:14 nothing like waiting til the enemy has taken over several cities and dug themselves in using civilians as human shields May 30 23:14 that is what the Taliban do May 30 23:14 Not just them May 30 23:21 It's a common strategy May 30 23:21 Harsh Words From Google On Linux Development < http://slashdot.org/submission/1010563/Harsh-Words-From-Google-On-Linux-Development > May 30 23:22 They take out of context a review of Chrome May 30 23:23 From Ars Technica May 30 23:23 Then they use the notorious Adobe excuses to enhance the effect May 30 23:23 The offensive article on GeezerOS gets biters: Harsh Words From Google On Linux Development[->] May 30 23:25 Oops. Wrong paste. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-30-008-35-OP-DT-HU-0000 May 30 23:25 His complaints range from the lack of a standardised UI toolkit, inconsistencies across applications, the lack of a unified and comprehensive HIG, to GTK not being a very compelling toolkit. May 30 23:30 lmao May 30 23:30 where exactly is he wrong? May 30 23:30 if they use QT, they have to statically link it and that bloats the package, if they use GTK+ then they have to bring that in if you're using KDE May 30 23:31 and neither way makes it feel like a part of the desktop May 30 23:31 it could end up being another Opera May 30 23:32 Opera is fantastic on Windows or Mac but sucks on Linux for that reason May 30 23:32 and user interface widgets on Linux, every program that's not part of the DE is basically guaranteed to have its own May 30 23:33 that is a very valid concern May 30 23:33 to not want to havve your application look like crap and fail to integrate May 30 23:33 GNOME has a reasonably good HIG, provided that applications adhere to it May 30 23:34 which is the main reason I'd like to see Epiphany Webkit get finished up May 30 23:35 "In an update that was posted a month after the initial discussion, Chrome developer Evan Martin described the Linux port as a "511MB executable that brings up an empty window." May 30 23:38 lmao May 30 23:38 "Microsoft's Windows Server revenue is down 29 percent [...] Linux businesses are thriving." http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10251998-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad May 30 23:38 "First of all let me generally comment that this entire situation is a clusterf*ck. I am not happy with the technical constraints imposed by Linux and its assorted UIs on Chrome's UI and feature set," he wrote. "There isn't dominant consensus around toolkit and HIG, there seems to be variance in commonly used software as to how it's constructed and what it matches, and I've not heard anyone... May 30 23:39 ...glow about how they can create the coolest looking UIs with GTK." May 30 23:39 gnome has an idiotic HIG they've copied from crApple. May 30 23:39 Say the A word and Mark Shuttleworth will get orgasmic May 30 23:41 *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell May 30 23:41 well, he's far from the first person I've heard bitching about all the above items and more May 30 23:42 there is no consistency May 30 23:42 no two applications behave the same May 30 23:42 Microsoft shill: "Having fun reading the ODF specification." May 30 23:42 Bob Sutor is back to twitter May 30 23:43 if you want consistency, stick to one toolkit. May 30 23:44 as for inconsistency, you can get that on any GUI May 30 23:45 try native, GTK, Qt, Swing and Tk together. May 30 23:45 Microsoft Anti-Linux Conference Goes Under an "Open Source" Banner  < http://www.openmalaysiablog.com/2009/05/mscosconf.html > May 30 23:50 http://www.ozelwebtasarim.com/index.php/web-haberleri/12879-phoronix-thread-leads-to-new-linux-game-ports May 30 23:56 this site just copies full articles from all sorts of sites, ours included. May 30 23:56

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