IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 1st, 2009

oiaohmIt a really large migrain if anything goes wrong.Jun 01 00:00
oiaohmOur of all there servers Linux ones give them the least trouble.Jun 01 00:01
_goblinDaemonFC: The only bastion of salvation (IMO) for a proprietary Windows platform is games and even that market is dwindling to the consoles and piracy (IMO)Jun 01 00:01
DaemonFChttp://www.techspot.com/news/34914-microsoft-and-asus-join-forces-to-smother-linux.htmlJun 01 00:01
DaemonFCwhy would piracy matter?Jun 01 00:02
oiaohmOf course DaemonFCJun 01 00:02
DaemonFCpeople still play them on WindowsJun 01 00:02
oiaohmAsus cannot compete with arm systems.Jun 01 00:02
oiaohmPiracy matters from the form that you have a large base to store viruses in.Jun 01 00:03
oiaohmThat never will get cleaned up due to updates.Jun 01 00:03
oiaohmSo viruses that should die out remain in existance to hit any freshly installed system.Jun 01 00:03
DaemonFCscan the installerJun 01 00:04
oiaohmSecuirty grounds I hate piracy.Jun 01 00:04
oiaohmWas the defect I was talking about in the installer.Jun 01 00:04
oiaohmFreshly installed systems don't have the lasted updates.Jun 01 00:05
oiaohmSo are open to exploits.Jun 01 00:05
oiaohmSoftware that is not getting updated provide a home for code that exploits those flaws to live.Jun 01 00:06
_goblinSorry, AFK for a second.Jun 01 00:06
_goblinWhy would piracy matter?  are you serious?Jun 01 00:06
oiaohmSecuirty grounds alone it should be outlawed.Jun 01 00:06
_goblinIf it is not profitable for a software house to release a title, it wont release it.Jun 01 00:07
_goblinat least their investment is a little safer with a console release.Jun 01 00:07
_goblinPC games are cracked quicker than you get an R5.Jun 01 00:07
_goblinlook at sporeJun 01 00:07
oiaohmMost pirates don't update there software because they don't want it to stop working due to there crack being overwriten.Jun 01 00:08
oiaohmSo they come a home for malware.Jun 01 00:08
_goblintrue...although Piratebay stats would suggest not many people are worried.Jun 01 00:08
oiaohmMost people stick there head in sand about problems too.Jun 01 00:09
_goblinI think there is more fear of the RIAA than of a malware infected crack.Jun 01 00:09
_goblinand as we've seen the RIAA are pretty impotent aswel.Jun 01 00:09
oiaohmWhat is more the issue to me is not the crack infected.Jun 01 00:09
oiaohmIts worms.Jun 01 00:09
oiaohmSo there systems come part of bot nets.Jun 01 00:10
oiaohmMore often then anyother group.Jun 01 00:10
_goblinBBC proved how easy it was to control a botnetJun 01 00:11
_goblinand (IMO) broke the law in doing so.Jun 01 00:11
oiaohmPirate software makes it simpler to build one.Jun 01 00:11
oiaohmDue to exploits not dieing out when they should.Jun 01 00:11
_goblintrue.Jun 01 00:11
oiaohmAnyone who things illegal aquired stuff is without it problems is a idiot.Jun 01 00:12
_goblinDaemonFC has gone quiet....Jun 01 00:12
oiaohmthings/thinksJun 01 00:12
oiaohmThere is no defence to this.Jun 01 00:13
_goblinoiaohm: It made me laugh when so many people rushed out to d/l a "leaked" 7 buildJun 01 00:13
oiaohmI am not talking about freedom.  I am talking about secuirty.  Secuirty is black and while with very little grey.Jun 01 00:13
_goblinblindly installing it onto their machines without a second thought.Jun 01 00:13
oiaohmMost people are secuirty idiots.Jun 01 00:13
DaemonFCuse an antivirusJun 01 00:14
_goblinthey do DaemonFC.Jun 01 00:14
DaemonFCnot trueJun 01 00:15
_goblinthat still doesn't seem to secure Windows.Jun 01 00:15
DaemonFCif there's that many viruses out there, people aren't using an antivirusJun 01 00:15
oiaohmAnti-virus engines due to size of database stop scanning for particular exploits when they should be patched DaemonFC.Jun 01 00:15
oiaohmWithout doing that they would have stoped functinign realtime a long time ago.Jun 01 00:15
oiaohmSo use an anti-virus does not save you.Jun 01 00:15
_goblinand what about exploitable code already present within Windows itself.  Shall we mention IE for starters?Jun 01 00:15
DaemonFCthat shouldn't matterJun 01 00:15
DaemonFCthey still have a heuristics engineJun 01 00:16
_goblinbe back in a minute....a chore for the wife...Jun 01 00:16
oiaohmheuristics engines look for signatures of current day exploitable flaws.Jun 01 00:16
DaemonFCeven without pattern files, the heuristics would flag most of itJun 01 00:16
oiaohmNot the ones that are gone.Jun 01 00:16
oiaohmOr should be gone.Jun 01 00:16
oiaohmIf you understond what was in the heuristic engine you would never had said that.Jun 01 00:17
schestowitzMicrosoft Employees and Partners Start Attacking ODF in Public < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/all-the-microsoft-emploshills-join-forces/ >Jun 01 00:17
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oiaohmBasically you have false faith in anti-virus software DaemonFC.Jun 01 00:20
oiaohmThere is no need to waste cpu time searching for attacks that the OS will kill.Jun 01 00:21
oiaohmProblem is when OS has not been patched that theory fails.Jun 01 00:21
DaemonFCso turn on automatic updatesJun 01 00:22
DaemonFCthey've been saying that for 5 years nowJun 01 00:23
oiaohmThey also remove signatures for the heuristics that will not work any more to reduce false positives.Jun 01 00:24
oiaohmIf automatic update breaks you crack on the OS bad luck.Jun 01 00:25
schestowitzBetter with Windows?  < http://linuxinexile.blogspot.com/2009/05/better-with-windows.html > Hoax?Jun 01 00:27
_goblinWho is "they"?  Do you mean Microsoft?Jun 01 00:28
_goblinBefore you answer remember that "they" also said people loved Vista.Jun 01 00:29
schestowitzWhy Windows 7 Will Fail on Netbooks  < http://www.workswithu.com/2009/05/29/why-windows-7-will-fail-on-netbooks/ >Jun 01 00:29
_goblinand "they" also likened FOSS to cancer.Jun 01 00:29
schestowitzMaybe Ballmer thought about BillS Sr. when he said thatJun 01 00:30
_goblin:)Jun 01 00:30
schestowitzOnly it was FOSS that cured  BillG Sr.Jun 01 00:30
_goblincan Ballmer actually think?Jun 01 00:30
_goblinor does he communication via chair throwing?Jun 01 00:30
schestowitzSweatyB uses Linux BTWJun 01 00:31
schestowitzJust not on his laptopJun 01 00:31
_goblin*comunicateJun 01 00:31
schestowitzEveryone uses LinuxJun 01 00:31
_goblinshame he cant use Lynx aswel.Jun 01 00:31
_goblinor even just darker shirtsJun 01 00:31
schestowitzHe uses GoogleJun 01 00:33
_goblinwhat??? Not Bing???Jun 01 00:33
schestowitzBink.nuJun 01 00:33
schestowitzMS shill BBTWJun 01 00:33
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_goblinhiJun 01 00:35
_goblinjust seen a link from my favorite shill:Jun 01 00:36
_goblinwww.itsbetterwithwindows.comJun 01 00:36
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schestowitzwww.itsbetterwithoutwindows.comJun 01 00:41
schestowitzDon't feed that siteJun 01 00:42
taconeniceJun 01 00:42
_goblinIts good though since anyone who actually has one of those machines will know the displayed experience of Windows is very different to the reality.Jun 01 00:43
schestowitzgnJun 01 00:43
taconegnJun 01 00:44
oiaohmTo be correct open source is a lot like a cancer.  Its using closed source as a host to get market share once it has enough market share it will kill hosts.  Also most cancer cells are immortal.Jun 01 00:45
oiaohmSo can out live the host many times over.Jun 01 00:45
oiaohmThe worst thing you can do to a insult its take it as a postitive.Jun 01 00:46
_goblingn royJun 01 00:46
DaemonFCthis wireless keyboard and mouse eat batteries like crazyJun 01 00:56
*DaemonFC needs to plug the USB ones back inJun 01 00:56
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oiaohmI got a wireless keyboard and mouse for nothing.Jun 01 01:09
oiaohmYet I never use it due to short battery live.Jun 01 01:10
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DaemonFChmmm, Centennial is pushing some Windows Mobile phones real cheap as upgrades for their old NokiasJun 01 01:44
DaemonFCI don't know that I'll stay with them anywayJun 01 01:45
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oiaohmThere old stock.Jun 01 02:07
oiaohmI bet.Jun 01 02:07
oiaohmDaemonFC: new verison of windows moblie OS has been released recently.Jun 01 02:07
DaemonFChmmmJun 01 02:08
DaemonFCBlackberries aren't much more expensive anywayJun 01 02:08
DaemonFCI might just go with thatJun 01 02:08
oiaohmSome of it is market reshaping for android.Jun 01 02:09
oiaohmStores don't want to get stuck with old stock they cannot sell.Jun 01 02:09
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DaemonFCI don't know that Android will be bigger than BlackberryJun 01 02:12
DaemonFCBlackberry has set the bar pretty highJun 01 02:13
DaemonFCanyway, back to what twit was saying about video gamesJun 01 02:14
DaemonFCthe game industry is (maybe unintentionally) driving sales of console versions a the expense of PCJun 01 02:15
DaemonFCI think they may be DRMing their PC games for just this reasonJun 01 02:15
DaemonFCthey're pushing everyone to console games  where you have to buy add ons that are associated with your Live account or whateverJun 01 02:16
DaemonFCbecause you can't resell the extrasJun 01 02:16
DaemonFCeventually the consoles will just have massive internal storage and you download the whole gameJun 01 02:16
DaemonFCI think the next version of XBOX and Playstation will be like thatJun 01 02:17
DaemonFCthis round is just getting people used to downloading contentJun 01 02:18
MinceReventually consoles will...become PCs!Jun 01 02:18
DaemonFCnot really, Sony ruined Linux on the PS3Jun 01 02:18
DaemonFCthey crippled it beyond being usefulJun 01 02:18
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_Hicham_Hi All!Jun 01 02:19
DaemonFCit can't access enough RA to use GNOME or KDE at allJun 01 02:19
DaemonFC*RAMJun 01 02:19
_Hicham_because this RAM is in your headJun 01 02:19
DaemonFCand no access to the video card means no compositing or video games within LinuxJun 01 02:19
_Hicham_and ur head is very stubbornJun 01 02:20
_Hicham_so no write accessJun 01 02:20
twitter oiaohm: To be correct open source is a lot like a cancer.  Its using closed source as a host to get market share once it has enough market share it will kill hosts.  Also most cancer cells are immortal.Jun 01 02:20
DaemonFCthe PS3 makes a piss poor PCJun 01 02:20
twitterI prefer the whore/wife analogyJun 01 02:20
_Hicham_Linux is the the best form of cancerJun 01 02:21
_Hicham_a cancer that purifies the marketJun 01 02:21
twitternon free software is like a whore.  All dolled up, cheap and easy.  The experience generally is a let down from the promise and you can never trust it.Jun 01 02:21
DaemonFCLinux will be useless when all operating systems have to run on top of a hypervisorJun 01 02:21
DaemonFCPS3 proves thisJun 01 02:21
DaemonFCeventually there will be DRM no matter what OS you useJun 01 02:21
twitterFree software is like a wife.  You own it, it owns you and you will know it better than yourself.  It never lets you down.Jun 01 02:21
twittermy hypervisor will be free :-DJun 01 02:22
DaemonFCeventually, the hypservisor could refuse Linux the ability to play movies or copy discsJun 01 02:22
DaemonFCno matter what software you useJun 01 02:22
_Hicham_DaemonFC is the hypervisorJun 01 02:22
twitternot a free oneJun 01 02:22
_Hicham_hahahahahahaJun 01 02:22
_Hicham_he is trying to fight LinuxJun 01 02:22
DaemonFCEFI will make that very easyJun 01 02:22
twitterI wonder whyJun 01 02:22
_Hicham_but it is too strongJun 01 02:22
_Hicham_Linux will kick DaemonFC's assJun 01 02:23
twitterFC, why are you here?Jun 01 02:23
_Hicham_to praise Vista of courseJun 01 02:23
DaemonFCI decided to go with BIOS because it's easier to manipulateJun 01 02:23
_Hicham_DaemonFC is an MS employeeJun 01 02:23
twitterThere's better money in burger flipping than praising VistaJun 01 02:23
_Hicham_employed as a trollJun 01 02:24
twitterprobably better job security tooJun 01 02:24
twitteris that true, FC?Jun 01 02:24
_Hicham_his job is to test games in Vista and wineJun 01 02:24
_Hicham_and give the differenceJun 01 02:24
twitterhe sure acts like a paid trollJun 01 02:24
_Hicham_a low paid trollJun 01 02:25
_Hicham_they just pay his internet connectionJun 01 02:25
DaemonFCsorry twat, not trueJun 01 02:25
DaemonFCerrr, twitJun 01 02:25
DaemonFCeither orJun 01 02:25
twitterif his job were really to test games, he would not have time to troll like thisJun 01 02:25
DaemonFC:PJun 01 02:25
MinceRDaemonFC: homework: look up the meaning of the word "will"Jun 01 02:25
MinceRgood luck.Jun 01 02:25
twittergood will?Jun 01 02:25
twitterit's not in Word's dictionaryJun 01 02:25
_Hicham_DaemonFC have a good willJun 01 02:25
_Hicham_to stay a Vista slaveJun 01 02:26
twittergood will to M$ is ill will to your neighborJun 01 02:26
MinceRnope, "will" as in referring to the futureJun 01 02:26
_Hicham_and the most interesting thing, is that he runs cross platform games in VistaJun 01 02:26
MinceRhis religion requires itJun 01 02:27
twitterhe just said that was not trueJun 01 02:27
_Hicham_and take the Windows binaries and runs them through wine in LinuxJun 01 02:27
twitteranyone sick enough to run Vista is sick enough to do all sorts of thingsJun 01 02:28
_Hicham_he is taking troll classes in the local community collegeJun 01 02:28
twitterrunning games in Wine is not the worst of his crimesJun 01 02:28
twitterDr. TrollJun 01 02:28
_Hicham_he is a smart trollJun 01 02:28
twitternot reallyJun 01 02:28
_Hicham_too bad that this smartness is wasted in trollingJun 01 02:29
_Hicham_instead of using it in sthg more productiveJun 01 02:29
twitterwell, that's trueJun 01 02:29
MinceRhe's smart? i never noticed.Jun 01 02:29
twitterhe could have the IQ of a slug and it would still be trueJun 01 02:29
_Hicham_why is he silent now?Jun 01 02:29
_Hicham_where is he now?Jun 01 02:30
twitteryou tell meJun 01 02:30
_Hicham_Mr DaemonFC, where are u?Jun 01 02:30
MinceRperhaps he's busy reinstalling vistaJun 01 02:30
MinceRor just rebootingJun 01 02:30
twitteror he's using another nymJun 01 02:31
_Hicham_he is always contradicting himselfJun 01 02:31
twitterdo you suppose Roy would bother to ban IP addresses if someone were to admit they were here simply to disrupt and harass?Jun 01 02:31
_Hicham_noJun 01 02:32
twitterHe has not done as much for commentsJun 01 02:32
_Hicham_he once kicked himJun 01 02:32
_Hicham_but Roy is very open mindedJun 01 02:32
twittermust have come back with another IP addressJun 01 02:32
_Hicham_noJun 01 02:32
twitterhow would you know?Jun 01 02:32
_Hicham_Roy unbanned himJun 01 02:32
_Hicham_Roy told us thatJun 01 02:32
DaemonFCno, my IP address stays the same for several months usuallyJun 01 02:33
twitterI must have missed itJun 01 02:33
_Hicham_plus Mr DaemonFC is a comcasterJun 01 02:33
DaemonFCso?Jun 01 02:33
twitterI don't think Roy is so much open minded as he's willing to let people incriminate themselves.Jun 01 02:34
DaemonFCme and about 50 million other peopleJun 01 02:34
DaemonFCthat must be a lot of Microsoft employees right?Jun 01 02:34
MinceRgnJun 01 02:34
_Hicham_true Mr DaemonFCJun 01 02:34
twittergood night MinceRJun 01 02:34
_Hicham_what is ur job at MS?Jun 01 02:34
_Hicham_gn MinceRJun 01 02:34
_Hicham_come on, Mr DaemonFCJun 01 02:34
_Hicham_tell us what is ur jobJun 01 02:35
twitterHe might not work for M$, but one of their proxies instead.Jun 01 02:35
twitterThey won't let him tell.Jun 01 02:35
_Hicham_how much do they pay u?Jun 01 02:35
_Hicham_is it just the internet connection?Jun 01 02:35
twitterFrom the looks of his videos, it's under $20k/year.Jun 01 02:35
twitterHe could do better as a waiter, if he had manners as well as servility.Jun 01 02:36
twitterThe biggest downside to trolling for a PR company has got to be regret for years wasted.Jun 01 02:38
DaemonFChmmm, I've gotten FLAC's compression ratio so far down, it's smaller than a q9 Vorbis fileJun 01 02:38
DaemonFCbut it confuses Winamp's spectrum analyzerJun 01 02:39
DaemonFCvisualizations still work fine thoughJun 01 02:39
twitterso how did you do that?Jun 01 02:40
DaemonFCjust a matter of using lossywav with FLAC set to a blocksize of 512 bytes and all of FLAC's compression settings enabled and maximizedJun 01 02:48
DaemonFCencoding is damned slow, but the files are less than half the size of normal FLACJun 01 02:48
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DaemonFClossywav sets all the lowest significant bits to 0 and tricks FLAC into marking them as wasted bitsJun 01 02:50
DaemonFCit basically tells FLAC to scrap all the noise and randomnessJun 01 02:50
DaemonFCso you still basically get CD quality without the humongous filesJun 01 02:50
DaemonFClossywav is a pre-processor, so the trick will work on most lossless encoders that support the wasted bits flagJun 01 02:51
DaemonFCincluding Monkey's Audio, WavPack, WMA Lossless, Apple Lossless, and FLACJun 01 02:51
DaemonFCyou get slightly better compression with WMA Lossless, but it's not worth the tradeoff in software and hardware supportJun 01 02:52
DaemonFCFLAC isn't known for having the best compression, but it doesn't use much CPU or RAM to decompress, so more hardware supports it, for nowJun 01 02:54
DaemonFCby the time you set Monkey's Audio to beat FLAC's compression, it uses so much CPU time to decode that seeking becomes ridiculously slowJun 01 02:55
DaemonFCplus I think the only software that supports playing back APE files on Linux is VLCJun 01 02:56
DaemonFCdue to hostility over a non-Stallman approved free software licenseJun 01 02:56
twitterSo, you made the Free Lossless Audio Codec into a lossy one?  OK.Jun 01 03:00
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DaemonFCnot reallyJun 01 03:00
DaemonFCit only throws away wasted spaceJun 01 03:01
twitterI'm not familiar with lossywavJun 01 03:01
DaemonFCand I didn't make LossyWAVJun 01 03:01
DaemonFCbut I did make a batch file to automatically convert existing FLAC files to lossyFLAC and retag themJun 01 03:02
DaemonFCSeether - Disclaimer II was 564 megs as FLAC and by using LossyWAV and squeezing the FLAC encoder, I got them down to 306 megsJun 01 03:03
twitterdeath watch updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707Jun 01 03:03
DaemonFC258 megs smallerJun 01 03:04
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DaemonFC45.74% smaller than regular FLACJun 01 03:04
DaemonFCnot bad at allJun 01 03:04
oiaohmDaemonFC: you got it wrong.   In time high def will be decoded in screen.Jun 01 03:07
oiaohmSo there will be no exposed point to hack.Jun 01 03:07
oiaohmOS will not be a issue then.Jun 01 03:08
oiaohmHDMI next version includes 100 mbs network connection for some reason.Jun 01 03:08
DaemonFCcoolJun 01 03:14
oiaohmBy the way when Linux would most likely be the hypervisor in the motherboard kinda makes that path uselessJun 01 03:15
twitterGah, this Wouter guy Roy points to is a real moron.Jun 01 03:16
oiaohmDRM guys are not what you call asleep.  If you cannot trust OS any more you have to trust devices.Jun 01 03:16
twitteron his blog page, he says, " I can't place the 'who file' remark, so let's scrap that one (hey, it was late. I had a DevDays session to present, stuff happens). However, the other things are quite relevant. What can be encrypted? Binaries, XML, everything? How? Per zip entry, folder, or logical structures? What is the general process? Why even encrypt? Can't we encrypt the entire file?"Jun 01 03:16
twitterHis "who file" is probably him misspelling "whole file"Jun 01 03:17
twitterhim or M$ word auto wronging it for him  :)Jun 01 03:17
oiaohmThe linux KVM module by the way can run a hypervisor inside a hypervisor and still memory edit the OS inside the contained hypervisor.Jun 01 03:19
oiaohmYep hypervisor as a solution is gone.Jun 01 03:20
DaemonFCso far I have 115 songs in 7 albums in LossyFLACJun 01 03:20
DaemonFC1.5 GBJun 01 03:20
twitterencrypting documents is  kind of silly anyway.  If someone's work is really sensitive, it's better to use whole drive encryption and sftp when you move it.Jun 01 03:20
twitterbig time troll dude, this M$ TEJun 01 03:20
oiaohmPersonally I prefer ogg I find lossywav creates sharp sounds in some forms of audio.Jun 01 03:21
DaemonFCyou can set it to be more or less agressive than it defaults toJun 01 03:22
oiaohmI play a lot of electronic music.   Lot of that don't take nicely to even lossywav on min.Jun 01 03:22
oiaohmYet encodes with ogg fine.Jun 01 03:23
oiaohmYou will find some styles will be effected by what you are doing DaemonFC.Jun 01 03:24
DaemonFCsounds exactly the same to meJun 01 03:24
DaemonFCVorbis distorts things like drums if you go below q10Jun 01 03:26
DaemonFCand MP3 fucks everything up at any bitrateJun 01 03:26
DaemonFCI'm sure that MP3 and Vorbis would be competitive if MP3 could go about 320kJun 01 03:26
DaemonFC*aboveJun 01 03:26
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DaemonFCwell you can go above 320k with certain encodersJun 01 03:27
DaemonFCbut certain decoders have trouble with the file thenJun 01 03:27
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DaemonFCHE-AAC is really what you want to use for low bitrate streamingJun 01 03:28
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DaemonFCMP3 Pro was interesting, but never went anywhereJun 01 03:29
Carl_Rover2k12Canonical wants to stray its distro soo far from the rest its not even funny anymore: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/canonical-developers-aim-to-make-android-apps-run-on-ubuntu.arsJun 01 03:30
DaemonFCthat doesn't seem so far fetchedJun 01 03:31
DaemonFCit would just be a subsystem like the 32-bit backwards compatibility librariesJun 01 03:31
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonFC: or JavaJun 01 03:31
DaemonFCyou could probably even uninstall it with no impact on the system other than losing Android compatibilityJun 01 03:31
DaemonFCso I don't have a problem with thatJun 01 03:31
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonFC: but it spreads the misnomer that Android is open sourceJun 01 03:32
taconetoo far from the rest ? they're simply competing with android on netbooksJun 01 03:32
taconeotherwise they will get eaten (and swollen)Jun 01 03:32
DaemonFCwell, I don't see what the problem isJun 01 03:32
DaemonFCnobody raises hell over them offering WineJun 01 03:32
DaemonFCso why can't they have an Android subsystemJun 01 03:33
Carl_Rover2k12tacone: well Android still has its limits in many regards, but I suppose it being a Google creation and all will attract manufacturers and users alikeJun 01 03:33
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonFC: WINE is a full open source transcoding app for re-interpreting Win32 librariesJun 01 03:34
taconeCarl_Rover2k12: the thing nobody talks aboutJun 01 03:34
taconeit's that canonical is working on the reverse also.Jun 01 03:34
taconemaking ubuntu run on top of android kernel.Jun 01 03:34
taconethat's a even bigger deal.Jun 01 03:34
Carl_Rover2k12tacone: trueJun 01 03:34
DaemonFCso? that would be a specialized portJun 01 03:34
DaemonFCnot something you'd run on a PCJun 01 03:35
taconethat would bring support for many arm architecture that ubuntu arm doesn't supportJun 01 03:35
taconeDaemonFC: yes, not something you would run on your PCJun 01 03:35
oiaohmYou did not get it. taconeJun 01 03:36
oiaohmDifference between android kernel and standard linux kernel is only a specal form of IPC support.Jun 01 03:37
oiaohmNo difference in hardware support realy.Jun 01 03:37
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: which may lead to further inconsistencies between Ubuntu and other distrosJun 01 03:38
taconehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/specs/KernelKarmicAndroidJun 01 03:38
oiaohmNot really Carl_Rover2k12Jun 01 03:38
tacone"The Android kernel supports platforms that the Ubuntu kernel does not. Android runs on Qualcomm Snapdragon/8xxx, TI OMAP3, Freescale Babbage and Marvell PXA3xx. "Jun 01 03:38
oiaohmThinking the special form of IPC support is current for include with standard linux kernel Carl_Rover2k12Jun 01 03:39
oiaohmtacone: ubuntu did not build there kernel for that.Jun 01 03:39
oiaohmNot that the the mainline kernel cannot be built for that.Jun 01 03:39
Carl_Rover2k12tacone: I guess I can see why they want the support: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ARMBeijingSeminar2009ReportJun 01 03:40
Carl_Rover2k12tacone: their PR for netbooks took a real beatingJun 01 03:41
taconeyes that's whyJun 01 03:41
oiaohmThe google IPC support is currently in the mainline staging tree.Jun 01 03:41
oiaohmAndroid applications could end up universal for all Linux distributions.Jun 01 03:42
taconelet's seeJun 01 03:44
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: but then thats like saying all apps should have been done in Java or some other programming language wrapped in a mini virtual machine like APIJun 01 03:45
Carl_Rover2k12subsetJun 01 03:45
taconeright. let's do everything in mono instead.Jun 01 03:46
oiaohmLinux has to get a Universal application support of some form.Jun 01 03:46
Carl_Rover2k12tacone: it takes all kinds of strokes to make a rainbowJun 01 03:46
oiaohmAt least with android common everywhere it will put more presure on distributions not to keep incompadiblity for incompadiblity sake.Jun 01 03:47
taconeso ?Jun 01 03:47
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: it has had it for a long time with Java, Python, Ruby, hell even HTML/CSSJun 01 03:47
oiaohmgoogle is java but the IPC thing makes if faster.Jun 01 03:47
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: sure they won't they will just rely on Adroid for interpolarityJun 01 03:47
taconepft. everyone loves incompabilityJun 01 03:47
taconeuninteroperabilityJun 01 03:48
Carl_Rover2k12tacone: lol, maybe standard library vowels and sudo commands should be done away withJun 01 03:48
oiaohmAndroid include a common install system and uninstall system those others you listed don't have Carl_Rover2k12.Jun 01 03:48
oiaohmIt will put presure where it is required basically.Jun 01 03:49
taconeuh, ubuntu newsletter linked me for the first timeJun 01 03:49
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: true, but being a virtual OS within itself its like telling all Mac OSX users they just should rely on Windows in Bootcamp for all their software needsJun 01 03:49
taconei know the key for success. write crap. everybody loves crapJun 01 03:49
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: its not as if X11 has done anything to provide a standard programming environmentJun 01 03:49
oiaohmsmall steps Carl_Rover2k12.Jun 01 03:50
oiaohmX11 it self is quite standard.Jun 01 03:50
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: exactlyJun 01 03:50
oiaohmIts combination of parts around it where you start pulling hair.Jun 01 03:50
oiaohmIts mostly distribution created mess.Jun 01 03:51
oiaohmDRI2 allowing more than 1 X11 server to run also will allow distribution inside distribution.Jun 01 03:52
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: so what better way to standardize it then rely on a virtual machine of an API subset which can constitute an OS in its own right that was developed and will continue to be supported by a monolithic company to support all standardized Linux needsJun 01 03:52
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: why should Linux require community driven help on the GPL model anythingJun 01 03:52
Carl_Rover2k12anymore I meantyJun 01 03:52
oiaohmIts more having the motivation.Jun 01 03:53
oiaohmAndroid is not closed source by the way.Jun 01 03:53
taconeandroid is Stracciatella SourceJun 01 03:53
taconeOpen vanilla with little brown binary blobs scattered around :)Jun 01 03:53
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: yes Android is the big cheese :PJun 01 03:54
oiaohmGoogle has done exactly what is need.   Its basically impossible to port normal programs into Android.Jun 01 03:54
oiaohmBut it will show that there is binary compadiblity between distributions.Jun 01 03:54
oiaohmSo forcing other distributions to get there act in order and sort out the problems.Jun 01 03:55
oiaohmLack of competing forces causes problems.    Open source gets to disreguard commerical a lot.Jun 01 03:55
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oiaohmSometimes you need that 1 item to shock the crap out of everything so problems get fixed Carl_Rover2k12.Jun 01 03:56
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: I just hope those who are know they should be shockedJun 01 03:57
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: or will they just lay down their arms and surrender or say mission accomplishedJun 01 03:57
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: an extra library ensuring compatibility between Android and Linux apps would be great. So long as one, namely Android, doesn't completely eclipse the other languages and subsets on the other.Jun 01 03:58
oiaohmIt wil not be google fault if that happpens.Jun 01 03:59
oiaohmIt will be distributions fault for not stepping up.Jun 01 03:59
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: I suppose you are right, but the folks with Google won't do anything to discourage eitherJun 01 04:00
twitteryou two are silly, people will be happy to port and write things to Android the same way they did to iPhone.Jun 01 04:00
twitterthe user will be obliviousJun 01 04:00
twitterdevelopers will have an easier time with it than people who write to iPhoneJun 01 04:00
oiaohmAndroid will not just stop at phone twitter.   You could have an android desktop one day.Jun 01 04:01
twittersame storyJun 01 04:01
twitterso what?Jun 01 04:01
oiaohmIf we want competition other distributions will now have to step up and get cross distribution compadiblity so it works.Jun 01 04:02
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: but comparing writing iPhone apps within OSX is not quite the same in a interoperability as well as interaction since technically the iPhone's OS is a scaled down desktop OSX, which in tern had its roots in Apple's Mac OS serverJun 01 04:02
twitterpeople like me will just put debian on itJun 01 04:02
twittereveryone gets what they wantJun 01 04:02
twitteryou don't really think it will be hard to compile things for Android, do you Carl?Jun 01 04:03
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: except for the flavor of having an OS with a healthy ecosystem to design different kinds of apps, namely 3D onesJun 01 04:03
twitter?Jun 01 04:03
oiaohmOther than everything that runs on windows mac and X11 don't work twitterJun 01 04:03
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: quite the opposite, people may find it easier to just rely on the Android library to ensure their apps are compatible with every distroJun 01 04:03
oiaohmIncluding standard java programs twitter.Jun 01 04:03
oiaohmGoogle basically broke every form of compadibly there was in 1 hit.Jun 01 04:04
twitterthere are plenty of examples of healthy non windows, mac and X11 platformsJun 01 04:04
twitterI'm not sure if iPhone even uses X, though it shouldJun 01 04:04
twitterso what's the big deal?Jun 01 04:05
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: its a scaled down version of the Cocoa APIJun 01 04:05
oiaohmNothing better to make developers wake up to compadiblty problems then lock them out.Jun 01 04:05
Carl_Rover2k12actually scratch scaled down, it is CocoaJun 01 04:05
twitterSo, if people are willing to write for Cocoa, they will write for AndroidJun 01 04:06
oiaohmI class what google did with android as something we need to happen.Jun 01 04:06
twitterpeople who care about freedom will just wipe it and put free software on itJun 01 04:06
oiaohmCocoa does not work on AndroidJun 01 04:06
twitterwho cares?Jun 01 04:06
oiaohmDeveloprs twitter.Jun 01 04:06
twitterYou two are all doom and gloom.Jun 01 04:06
oiaohmBecause they cannot recycle there work simply.Jun 01 04:07
oiaohmGoogle basically went out of there way to make sure they could not.Jun 01 04:07
twitterWhat's to keep Android devices from running Debian?Jun 01 04:07
twitterThat would be the right way to recycle workJun 01 04:07
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: because Android is so much easier to create and install apps forJun 01 04:08
oiaohmSome can be firmware locked twitter.Jun 01 04:08
twitterthen developers will be happy, except for the firmware locksJun 01 04:08
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: also this is not about Android vs other distros. This is about an Android library vs other libraries and programming languagesJun 01 04:08
twitteryou two can't have it both waysJun 01 04:08
oiaohmI see android as something that need to happen twitter.Jun 01 04:08
twitterIf this were a M$ thing, you would praise it as "innovative"Jun 01 04:08
oiaohmNoJun 01 04:09
twitterbecause it's Google, you say "Linux sucks"Jun 01 04:09
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: it wouldn't happen if it were an "M$ thing"Jun 01 04:09
oiaohmMS has not innovated very much.Jun 01 04:09
twitteryeah, M$ can't make anything happen these daysJun 01 04:09
oiaohmI see this as the presue Linux distributions have required to come to the table and truly talk standards.Jun 01 04:10
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: not only that but M$ has basically no repatua with the open source communityJun 01 04:10
oiaohmInstead of just thinking about protecting there own markets.Jun 01 04:10
oiaohmBasically showing them with the right results there market could be taken away from them over night.Jun 01 04:11
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: this should also be a rallying call to build up Python and Rubby to a healthy and robust languageJun 01 04:11
oiaohmGoogle is sending resources into Python.Jun 01 04:12
twitteryou two are loopyJun 01 04:13
oiaohmIf google did want to destroy everything they would not be doing that.Jun 01 04:13
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: but thats only for their host side appsJun 01 04:13
twitterthe best standard is freedom and distributions protect it with diversityJun 01 04:13
oiaohmDefine freedom.Jun 01 04:13
twitteranyone can play with free software, which is why there's such a commercial outpouringJun 01 04:13
twitterGPLJun 01 04:13
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: Google doesn't follow the GPLJun 01 04:14
twitterwhy should I rewrite the 4 freedoms, look them up yourselfJun 01 04:14
oiaohmIf you call freedom locked away from accessing the lastest versions of applications becuase they are not build for your distribution freedom.Jun 01 04:14
twitteryou have the freedom to the the latest and greatest, no one is stopping youJun 01 04:14
oiaohmCaused by artifical interference by distributionsJun 01 04:15
twitteryour talk of "standards" only applies to non free softwareJun 01 04:15
twittercrazy, ohmJun 01 04:15
oiaohmWine is a major head ache to build as a cross distribution binary for distributions by the way twitter.Jun 01 04:15
twitteryou call making free software together "interference"Jun 01 04:16
oiaohmIt no just closed source effected by that twitter.Jun 01 04:16
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: not everything in Android is free, and there is no freedom if one entity has sway over catalogs of applicationsJun 01 04:16
oiaohmIf you read GPL twitter you will find you are not allowed to alter programs without clearly marking it as such.Jun 01 04:16
twitterthere will be no freedom for cell phones as long as spectrum is not freeJun 01 04:16
oiaohmLot of distributions break that twitter.Jun 01 04:16
oiaohmSo making debuging by open source project massivally harder.Jun 01 04:17
oiaohmThis is what I call interference twitter.Jun 01 04:17
oiaohmIt is illegal interference by distributions.Jun 01 04:18
twitterliesJun 01 04:18
oiaohmSo ubuntu packaging wine 1.1.12 up with backported patches.  marked as 1.1.12 wine --version return such.  Did not happen leading to over 2000 invaid bug reports.Jun 01 04:19
oiaohmI could list a whole stack of distributions gulity of it.Jun 01 04:20
oiaohmMozilla sueing debian over the same thing twitterJun 01 04:20
twitterlolJun 01 04:20
twitterliesJun 01 04:20
oiaohmThere are some major problems in the open source world.Jun 01 04:20
oiaohmNot lies.  I wish there were.Jun 01 04:21
Aondowhat in android is not free oiaohm ? i thought it all wereJun 01 04:21
Carl_Rover2k12Aondo: for one thing the entire API is based on an implementation of JavaJun 01 04:21
Aondoah sry it was Carl_Rover2k12 :PJun 01 04:22
oiaohmAondo: open source and being compadible are two different things.Jun 01 04:22
oiaohmI am not talking about it not being free.  I am talking about the compadiblity issue for developers.Jun 01 04:22
oiaohmOf course users might not notice.Jun 01 04:23
AondoCarl_Rover2k12  and that implementation is not free?Jun 01 04:24
oiaohmImplementation is free.Jun 01 04:24
oiaohmIts just incompadible with basically everything else Aondo.Jun 01 04:24
Aondoeverything else.. what?Jun 01 04:25
Aondonot sure i understand heheJun 01 04:26
oiaohmNormal java binarys that will work cross platform with windows linux mac and other phone platforms will not run at all in android.Jun 01 04:26
Carl_Rover2k12Aondo: its free to an extent of the license which Oracle now presides over or any elements which Google added such as the IPC, it is certainly not open source to the extent that the GNU specifiesJun 01 04:27
twitternon free binaries, ohm?Jun 01 04:27
oiaohmThe IPC is open source Carl_Rover2k12Jun 01 04:27
twitterso sadJun 01 04:27
twittertoo badJun 01 04:27
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: it is? I thought Google was holding onto thatJun 01 04:27
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: when did this become a competition, give and learn dammit :PJun 01 04:27
twitterfreedom is freedomJun 01 04:28
oiaohmSource code of the IPC is in the Linux main kernel staging tree I said that before Carl_Rover2k12Jun 01 04:28
twitterI'm not worried about non free softwareJun 01 04:28
oiaohmGoogle is not stupid.   Having the IPC not in the main line would mean having to maintain it in sync with the Linux kernel all the time.Jun 01 04:29
oiaohmWhat eats up resources quite badly.Jun 01 04:29
oiaohmOnly issue with andriod is ammout of control firmware could provide and incompadiblities.Jun 01 04:30
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Carl_Rover2k12twitter: freedom is only what you can make of it against othersJun 01 04:31
twitter?Jun 01 04:32
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: listen and learn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0EJun 01 04:32
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: if I could have found it on Liveleaks I would have linked itJun 01 04:32
oiaohmGoogle has not done what MS did.  Ie keeping stuff secret.Jun 01 04:32
twitterI can't watch liveleaks, thanksJun 01 04:32
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: you're intimidated by personally agreeing to TOSs?Jun 01 04:33
oiaohmBecides google was smart they put the IPC the one place Orcale cannot attack.  In the Linux kernel.Jun 01 04:34
twitterI don't have flash, Carl.Jun 01 04:34
Carl_Rover2k12oiaohm: it also helps make it more efficientJun 01 04:34
twitterand I don't like ToS that suck.Jun 01 04:34
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: not all are bad, some even protect you in case if anyone comes between you and the service you are usingJun 01 04:36
twitterthat's why I read themJun 01 04:38
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: seriously, that is good for you thenJun 01 04:38
Carl_Rover2k12anyway I'm off, thankyou all for the edumacational experienceJun 01 04:41
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oiaohmThere is no such thing as freedom only the illusion of freedom.Jun 01 04:42
twitterviolations of freedom are real and they take a lot of effortJun 01 04:43
oiaohmLet say you gave a everyone the absolute freedom to do anything.  Nothing stops them from making you the next person dead.  Since they have absolute freedom to do whatever they choose.Jun 01 05:00
oiaohmNo one really want to live in a world with absolute freedom twitter.Jun 01 05:01
twitteryou can make the world better then, by surrendering your freedom to meJun 01 05:01
oiaohmMost people truly want to live in a world of respect.   Where you respect the other person life and they respect yours.Jun 01 05:02
twitterplease send me a large portion of your earnings if you wish to continue to post hereJun 01 05:02
oiaohmYou are talking about respect not freedom.    People respect each others right to have money.Jun 01 05:02
twitterI refuse to work for you without adequate rewaredJun 01 05:02
oiaohmWithout respect there is nothing stoping you from torturing people if they don't work.Jun 01 05:03
oiaohmDictators have absolute freedom to do what ever they like in most cases twitter.Jun 01 05:03
oiaohmHuman + absolute freedom is a really bad thing.Jun 01 05:04
twitterfreedom to take freedom is not a freedom or a right, ohm.Jun 01 05:07
twitteryou are sillyJun 01 05:07
oiaohmA person with absolute freedom has no rules they have to follow twitter.Jun 01 05:08
oiaohmNone.Jun 01 05:08
oiaohmthis includes caring about someones life.Jun 01 05:08
oiaohmRespect of others is why we care about someone elses life.Jun 01 05:09
oiaohmYou idea that freedom is one thing is wrong.   The absolute form of freedom leads to harm.Jun 01 05:10
twitterquit putting words into my mouth, ohmJun 01 05:25
twitterand pay upJun 01 05:25
twitterarm laptops on the way http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165820/inventec_ready_to_ship_snapdragon_laptop_in_q4.htmlJun 01 05:33
twittersome pictures, light on details http://www.inventec.com/english/product_a01.htmJun 01 05:35
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fewahttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/google-dailymotion-endorse-html-5-and-standards-based-video.arsJun 01 05:40
fewatwitter, where are the armies? ive been waiting but havnt seen yetJun 01 05:41
fewabattery life + cool ive been waiting forJun 01 05:41
DaemonFChttp://www.bringdownie6.com/Jun 01 05:41
fewahttp://www.theonion.com/content/node/28817Jun 01 05:48
DaemonFCI've played around with the branch predictor in FLAC some moreJun 01 05:49
twitterSix hours, it's almost a PPC mac.Jun 01 05:49
DaemonFCI'm now averaging a 55% size reduction vs FLACJun 01 05:49
DaemonFCand about 4-5 times smaller than WAVJun 01 05:50
DaemonFCit really kills the encoder performance thoughJun 01 05:50
DaemonFCit takes about twice as long as normal FLAC to encodeJun 01 05:50
DaemonFCthe good part is that it takes the same resources to decodeJun 01 05:51
DaemonFCso portables can still handle itJun 01 05:51
twitterwhy don't you just use ogg?  200 MHz ARM was able to deal with that seven years agoJun 01 05:53
DaemonFCcause Ogg isn't as good of qualityJun 01 05:55
twitterif you say soJun 01 05:56
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DaemonFCit's notJun 01 05:57
DaemonFCfrankly Vorbis sucks if you're going for qualityJun 01 05:57
DaemonFCall lossy codecs doJun 01 05:57
DaemonFCall lossyWAV does it throw away noise, it doesn't mutilate the actual musicJun 01 05:58
DaemonFCnobody could tell you the difference between a FLAC made from LossyWAV and a normal FLAC fileJun 01 05:58
DaemonFCwithout busting out a wave spectrum analyzerJun 01 05:59
DaemonFChigh bitrate Vorbis not only spits out larger files, they stick out like a sore thumbJun 01 05:59
DaemonFCmost of the time, by the time you hit q9 or 10 Vorbis, the file is larger than a lossyFLAC and doesn't sound as goodJun 01 06:00
DaemonFCbasically with LossyFLAC, I get to store twice as many of them on a portable, which is why it interests meJun 01 06:01
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DaemonFCVorbis stating that it sounds better than a codec that predates it by over 10 years is like winning the worlds tallest midget contestJun 01 06:02
DaemonFCif file size is the only thing that matters to you, you can get better quality out of HE-AACJun 01 06:03
DaemonFCVorbis stating that it has more features than MP3 would be like marketing Linux by comparing it to Windows 3.1Jun 01 06:04
DaemonFCa stiff breeze could knock MP3 over at this pointJun 01 06:05
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DaemonFCthe Xiph.org people made a passable codec, but what they really need to focus on it a high efficiency low bitrate streaming version of VorbisJun 01 06:06
DaemonFCbecause HE-AAC can sound better than 64k Vorbis with a 48k streamJun 01 06:06
DaemonFCwhich translates into lower bandwidth billsJun 01 06:06
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twitterOthers have said that Vorbis has better sound quality than mp3 per byte.  They have reasonable studies to back their conclusions.Jun 01 06:31
twitterThe analogy of GNU/Linux to cancer does not work in a world with Google, Wikipedia and others.Jun 01 06:31
fewayepJun 01 06:32
fewaits a loosing battle and they knowJun 01 06:32
fewaitJun 01 06:32
DaemonFCyeah, but AAC is better than MP3Jun 01 06:33
DaemonFCand better than Vorbis at really low bitrates with HE-AACJun 01 06:33
twitterThe spread of software freedom has created these "tumors" which are fatal to the non free software body, but are a great benefit to the economy as a whole, the body which non free software is supposed to serve.Jun 01 06:33
fewatheir last fight is the frizt chip, getting the government to mandate a microsoft monopolyJun 01 06:33
fewaand they will continue to pay off OEMs governments, etc to try to have a large mind shareJun 01 06:34
twitterIf anything, free software is more like a stem cell, which rejuvenates ailing institutions.Jun 01 06:34
twitterNon free software is more like a cancer, a mutation caused by greed to what was once a free software world.Jun 01 06:35
DaemonFCUNIX was the worlds first fully portable computer virusJun 01 06:35
DaemonFCand X was the first fully modular oneJun 01 06:35
twitterPeople were seduced by the notion of "owners" maintaining code that freedom would not provide.Jun 01 06:36
DaemonFCit's only now that they're turning X into a modern windowing systemJun 01 06:36
twitterIt's clear that freedom has provided much better code.Jun 01 06:36
DaemonFCand prying most of it out of running as rootJun 01 06:36
DaemonFCit's like rebuilding a 25 year old car a piece at a timeJun 01 06:37
twitterNon free software is dying.  Like any tumor, it leaves a few holes and scars as the body breaks down and pisses it out.Jun 01 06:37
twitterBut the body is happy to be rid of it.Jun 01 06:38
DaemonFCit's not dying, Windows is now on 94% of netbooksJun 01 06:38
DaemonFCafter 2 yearsJun 01 06:38
DaemonFCwhere Linux started out on nearly every one of themJun 01 06:39
twitterNon free software is like a horse and buggy, dressed up to look like a rocket ship.Jun 01 06:39
DaemonFCwell, the free market spoke and the Windows machines were sellingJun 01 06:39
DaemonFCwhy do Communistas always ignore the obvious?Jun 01 06:39
twitterthe market is speaking http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707Jun 01 06:39
DaemonFCyou're arguing for a planned economy and a loss of choiceJun 01 06:39
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 06:40
DaemonFCshoving freedom down everyones throats, yes?Jun 01 06:40
DaemonFCwhether they want it or notJun 01 06:40
twitterI argue for freedom and people are choosing it.Jun 01 06:40
DaemonFCto where they have no choice but Linux?Jun 01 06:40
twitterM$ manipulation of OEMs shows where the real force has been.Jun 01 06:40
DaemonFCsounds like you just want to force everyone to using what you wantJun 01 06:40
twitterhttp://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/221041Jun 01 06:41
DaemonFCthere's not one thing that stops anyone from choosing LinuxJun 01 06:41
DaemonFCif they don't it's an evil master planJun 01 06:41
twitterread the above linkJun 01 06:41
DaemonFCright? :PJun 01 06:41
twitterWell, M$'s emails make them look organized.  Looks great on paper!  Fails in reality.Jun 01 06:41
DaemonFCno, I want you to tell me why I can't buy a Linux systemJun 01 06:42
twitterThe world has a way of slinking around force.Jun 01 06:42
DaemonFCwhy I can't go to System76 or Dell and just buy oneJun 01 06:42
DaemonFCright nowJun 01 06:42
DaemonFCis it cause Steve Ballmer is going to stop me?Jun 01 06:42
DaemonFC:PJun 01 06:42
DaemonFCnoJun 01 06:42
twitterWell, if you look what they did to your former employer in the link above, you will see the lengths they went toJun 01 06:42
twitterbut you don't read much do you?Jun 01 06:43
DaemonFCwhy would I want to read something by twithead?Jun 01 06:43
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 06:43
twitterIt's M$ email, not my writing.Jun 01 06:43
twitteryou might learn something from reading itJun 01 06:43
DaemonFCtwitter: They still sell Linux PCs sometimesJun 01 06:45
twitterBallmer works very hard to make sure Dell does not offer a better deal than a computer with Windows.Jun 01 06:45
DaemonFCwhen the system is basically stripped bareJun 01 06:45
DaemonFCand sold to be cheapJun 01 06:45
twitterIt's the same trick they played on OS/2 - make the competition look expensive compared to one with Windows.Jun 01 06:45
DaemonFCWalmart sold the Everex gPC as a holiday special just several months agoJun 01 06:46
DaemonFCthat's over 2 years past your so called internal emailJun 01 06:46
DaemonFCit shipped with LinuxJun 01 06:46
twitterThey are finally losing the battle because Dell and other retailers are going out of business.  That does not disprove what they planed and recored in their email.Jun 01 06:46
DaemonFCEverex is going broke because of returns and poor salesJun 01 06:46
DaemonFCnot because of a CabalJun 01 06:46
twitterIn other words, their failure is not for lack of trying.Jun 01 06:46
twitterM$ is going broke because they wasted their resources on DRM and anti-competitive schemes.Jun 01 06:47
DaemonFCalmost every PC maker that sells Linux slaps it on cheap low end systems where the $50 for Windows would up the price significantlyJun 01 06:47
twitterGood riddanceJun 01 06:47
DaemonFCLinux is not a selling pointJun 01 06:47
DaemonFCit's there cause it's freeJun 01 06:47
twitternot to you it isn'tJun 01 06:47
twitterdon't projectJun 01 06:48
DaemonFCthey even warn that Linux won't run your applicationsJun 01 06:48
DaemonFCwhich is trueJun 01 06:48
twitterGNU/Linux was the most popular Dell Idea storm.Jun 01 06:48
DaemonFCyeah, mostly due to sockpuppetsJun 01 06:48
DaemonFCI'm sure you voted a few thousand timesJun 01 06:48
twitterDell did not go with it.  Now they suffer drastic lossesJun 01 06:48
DaemonFCDell sells Linux systemsJun 01 06:48
DaemonFCthey did go with itJun 01 06:49
twitteralways accuse others of what you do, eh FC?Jun 01 06:49
DaemonFCno reason not to, if it ups their sales 1% and costs them nothingJun 01 06:49
DaemonFCit also is a bargaining chips against MicrosoftJun 01 06:49
twitterM$ has bigger hammersJun 01 06:49
twitterthey can disable every Dell on the market with the next Windoze updateJun 01 06:49
DaemonFCI'd throw some free copies of Linux on some systems if it upped my sales 1%Jun 01 06:49
twitterDell has been very happy with their GNU/Linux sales.Jun 01 06:50
DaemonFCno they can'tJun 01 06:50
twitterThat won't keep M$ from hammering themJun 01 06:50
DaemonFCthey'd be suedJun 01 06:50
DaemonFCthe jury would award damages to the plantiffsJun 01 06:50
twitterThey have been sued, again and again and they have lost as often.Jun 01 06:50
DaemonFCthey'd never just shut all of them down for spireJun 01 06:50
DaemonFC*spiteJun 01 06:50
twitterM$ does a lot of ugly things for spite, don't they FC?Jun 01 06:51
DaemonFCthey wouldn't shut down all DellsJun 01 06:51
DaemonFCyou're paranoid/delusionalJun 01 06:52
twitterwhy not a significant fraction?Jun 01 06:52
twitterLike what they did to Intel's GPUs?Jun 01 06:52
twitterIntel lost billions of dollars on their graphics line thanks to M$.Jun 01 06:52
twitterPunishment for working with free software.Jun 01 06:53
DaemonFCMicrosoft can't shut down millions of DellsJun 01 06:53
DaemonFCthey simply cannotJun 01 06:53
DaemonFCperiodJun 01 06:53
twitteryou don't think they could sabotage a driver?Jun 01 06:53
twitterlike ship an old broken one instead of one that works with an update?Jun 01 06:53
DaemonFCit would spark a huge class action lawsuit, it would irrepairably damage Microsoft's customer relationsJun 01 06:53
DaemonFCthey would never do thatJun 01 06:53
twitterI seem to remember you complaining about just thisJun 01 06:54
twitternever on purposeJun 01 06:54
twitternever just to punish or threatenJun 01 06:54
twitterit's all just convenient coincidence, right?Jun 01 06:54
twitterLike DRDOS.Jun 01 06:54
DaemonFCthey would not do itJun 01 06:54
DaemonFCthe fallout would destroy themJun 01 06:54
twitterIt's not like they planed it in advance and then paid people to lie on BBS, was it?Jun 01 06:55
twitterNo, they burned the court records, so it must be some kind of paranoid delusion.  Even after they lost and paid the fines.Jun 01 06:55
twitterIt's not like the above link does not basically brag about how the GNU/Linux vendor is afraid of M$ retaliation.Jun 01 06:56
twitterNoted as a motivation of the party involved and something to work with to get their desired result.Jun 01 06:56
twitterThe fall out has destroyed them, FC.  The world is moving on without them now.Jun 01 06:57
twitterAs their software assurance plans run out, M$'s earnings will crater.  They are imploding and won't last another 12 months.Jun 01 06:58
DaemonFCin an alternate reality?Jun 01 06:58
twitterjust watch :)Jun 01 06:58
schestowitzMozilla Jetpack Could Speed Firefox Add-on Efforts < http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3822741/Mozilla+Jetpack+Could+Speed+Firefox+Addon+Efforts.htm >Jun 01 07:17
schestowitzhttp://www.zareason.com/shop/product.php?productid=16204&cat=0&page=1Jun 01 07:17
schestowitz"Yes, in true Microsoft fashion, the maps used are provided by Microsoft and there are ties to other Microsoft products. At first blush, however, this doesn't appear to be heavy-handed. It's certainly no different from how Google prefers its own services to those of competitors." http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10251152-16.htmlJun 01 07:18
schestowitz"Obama's Supreme Court Nominee Knows Stuff About Computers"  http://gizmodo.com/5271318/obamas-supreme-court-nominee-knows-stuff-about-computers Knows "STUFF"... now what does that mean?Jun 01 07:19
schestowitz" [PJ: I'd like to replace comments on Groklaw with it, and we could do our group work with it. News Picks would be so much more fun with Google Wave.] -  Tom Krazit, CNET  "Jun 01 07:22
schestowitzhttp://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/googles-top-policy-exec-to-join-obama-administration/ Google’s Top Policy Executive to Join Obama Administration. But shouldn't these be separate from companies?Jun 01 07:29
schestowitz"To use Bing is to see the Internet through Microsoft's corporate values. For example: Bing brings "the best match to the top," not the most popular. In other words, Microsoft is overriding the democratic approach for an elitist, we-know-best approach." http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=&articleId=9133682&taxonomyId=&intsrc=kc_featJun 01 07:31
DaemonFCyou mean they aren't letting sneaky "search optimizers" game the systemJun 01 07:32
DaemonFClike Google does?Jun 01 07:32
DaemonFCjoyJun 01 07:32
schestowitzNopeJun 01 07:34
schestowitzLet me get you a linkJun 01 07:34
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/25/msn-search-tweak-censorship/Jun 01 07:35
schestowitzYour buddy says: " Although Obama said he will withdraw the Bush forces from Iraq by 2011, the army is planning to stay for a decade." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-mar-jun.html#30%20May%202009%20%28Stay%20for%20a%20decade%29Jun 01 07:36
DaemonFChe said combat troopsJun 01 07:37
DaemonFCnever said all of themJun 01 07:37
schestowitzCookies, not torture, convinced al Qaeda suspect to talk, FBI interrogator says < http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/05/cookies-al-qaeda/ >Jun 01 07:37
DaemonFCplus you can get creative with what a combat troop isJun 01 07:37
schestowitzCombative cookJun 01 07:37
schestowitzThings get (nuclearly) hotter: North Korea withdraws from 1953 armistice and escalates nuclear tensions < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/27/north-korea-nuclear-dispute >Jun 01 07:38
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DaemonFCSean Hannity lasted 6 seconds of waterboardingJun 01 07:39
DaemonFCand is now admitting it is tortureJun 01 07:39
DaemonFCthat's awesomeJun 01 07:39
DaemonFCfinally the truth from a Fixed News anchorJun 01 07:39
DaemonFCoh waitJun 01 07:41
DaemonFCit wasn't HannityJun 01 07:41
DaemonFChe chickened outJun 01 07:41
DaemonFCapparently it was some other conservative AM radio fascist gasbagJun 01 07:42
DaemonFCso hard to keep track of themJun 01 07:42
DaemonFChttp://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jADf7Acwh1ozkVvkjNQ9dkk7GQuQD98ET2P04Jun 01 07:43
DaemonFCI always liked Keith Olbermann's name for Sean HannityJun 01 07:45
DaemonFCHannity the ManateeJun 01 07:45
DaemonFCthen there's Ann CoultergeistJun 01 07:45
DaemonFCand Boss LimbaughJun 01 07:45
DaemonFCand Bill-O The ClownJun 01 07:45
DaemonFChttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/us/01nevada.html?ref=global-homeJun 01 07:49
DaemonFCNevada becomes 17th state to recognize same sex couples after their Republican governor was overridden by the legislatureJun 01 07:50
DaemonFCoddly enough the Casino industry lobbied for the bill to passJun 01 07:51
DaemonFCprobably figured it would up business in VegasJun 01 07:52
DaemonFCeither way, good jobJun 01 07:52
DaemonFCit looks like Indiana's legislature is going to have to grow a pair and override our governor quite a bit this yearJun 01 07:53
DaemonFCthe governor is hugely unpopular and only won because the Democrats had such an unelectable candidateJun 01 07:54
DaemonFCnow House and Senate Republicans are both trying to distance themselves from himJun 01 07:54
DaemonFCfrankly I was hugely disappointed with the Democratic candidate even though I voted for herJun 01 07:55
schestowitzHow GNU/Linux users can keep Mono at bay  < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25352/1090/ > Windows troll Alex Zaharov-Reutt  already there Jun 01 07:56
DaemonFChmmmJun 01 07:57
DaemonFCI wonder if Mr Microsoft MVP is aware that IE 8 destroys the formatting of his blogJun 01 07:57
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 07:57
schestowitzhttp://pclinuxos2007.blogspot.com/2009/05/so-whats-real-problem-in-desktop-linux.htmlJun 01 08:01
schestowitz"Usability? I don't think so. Both Gnome 2.26 and KDE 3.5.10 (the most stable, KDE4 still needs some time in oven) desktop environments are able to give M$ a run for its money. Both are beautiful and usable. Compiz beats M$ Aero effects. What's more Linux Desktop Environments are frugal in resource consumption if you compare them with Windows Vista.Jun 01 08:01
schestowitzPerformance? Not at all. Modern Linux kernel is very fast and stable. Modern Linux filesystem is also very versatile. If you doubt try copying GBs of data in a Linux system and do the same in a Windows System (with similar hardware configuration). You will see Linux is definitely faster. Of course, there are so many other speed tests."Jun 01 08:01
schestowitzDaemonFC: which MVP?Jun 01 08:02
DaemonFCVistaGlazz can really make Aero a lot betterJun 01 08:03
DaemonFCunfortunately it has to patch system files, and doesn't work with Vista SP2 yetJun 01 08:04
DaemonFCif you want to get by with a cheap version of Windows, you'll most likely find yourself patching system files, and if you want to use Vista as a web server, you surely willJun 01 08:05
schestowitzMicrosoft Jack can't help attacking Linux.. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/may/28/netbooks-salesJun 01 08:06
schestowitzUbuntu - Long Term Support - How long is it really? < http://www.linux.com/community/blogs/Ubuntu-Long-Term-Support-How-long-is-it-really-.html >Jun 01 08:07
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schestowitzMore Details on Ubuntu One Integration < http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2009/05/29/more-details-on-ubuntu-one-integration/ >Jun 01 08:18
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[1]DaemonFCugghJun 01 08:27
[1]DaemonFChow can it be so damned hot in here?Jun 01 08:27
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oiaohmtwitter: you never get my beliefs.Jun 01 08:28
oiaohmdri2 will allow compiz to work correctlyJun 01 08:30
oiaohmClock is ticking.Jun 01 08:30
DaemonFChttp://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8879/70612782.pngJun 01 08:32
DaemonFCschestowitz: Funny that IE 8 fucks up his own blogJun 01 08:32
schestowitzHaha.Jun 01 08:32
schestowitzI see now...Jun 01 08:32
*schestowitz waits for next Pirillo rant about IEJun 01 08:32
DaemonFCI also tried it in Compatability View (IE 7 mode)Jun 01 08:33
DaemonFCit doesn't work right there eitherJun 01 08:33
DaemonFCI don't know why or how anyone can defend IEJun 01 08:36
DaemonFCit doesn't just render pages slowJun 01 08:37
DaemonFCthe user interface is laggy and unresponsiveJun 01 08:37
DaemonFCeven on fast systemsJun 01 08:37
oiaohmThey try to claim secuirty.Jun 01 08:37
oiaohmBut every knows it crap.Jun 01 08:37
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DaemonFCwhat's scary is that so many people still use IE 6 because that was the last version that works on Windows 2000Jun 01 08:48
DaemonFCor what came with XPJun 01 08:48
DaemonFCno service packs for XP will updater IE to 7 or 8Jun 01 08:49
DaemonFCthat's pushed out as a separate updateJun 01 08:49
DaemonFCit really shouldn't be an option to keep IE 6Jun 01 08:49
oiaohmbot makers lunch.Jun 01 08:49
oiaohmLot of people have no understand of the risk they put them at by not updating.Jun 01 08:50
schestowitzRisk to othersJun 01 08:55
DaemonFCthe latest Chrome weekly build fails ACID 3Jun 01 08:56
DaemonFCwith a score of 94/100Jun 01 08:56
oiaohmIt is getting closer.Jun 01 09:07
DaemonFCno actuallyJun 01 09:07
DaemonFCChrome 2 passes itJun 01 09:07
DaemonFCso they have a regressionJun 01 09:07
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oiaohmhttp://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/05/the-mips-processor-and-the-150-1.html  mips smartbooks on way.Jun 01 09:11
oiaohmLower end of the market is going to get quite hostial.Jun 01 09:12
oiaohmArm vs Mips.Jun 01 09:12
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oiaohmLet the phone war expand.Jun 01 09:12
DaemonFCMicrosoft is shutting down Digital Locker and switching to an incompatible "Microsoft Store"Jun 01 09:38
DaemonFCeveryone that bought software from digital locker will have to back up their product keys elsewhereJun 01 09:38
DaemonFCniceJun 01 09:54
DaemonFCI got plageurizedJun 01 09:54
DaemonFChttp://www.palluxo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=342:two-ways-to-hack-microsoft-vista-operating-system&catid=90:blogs&Itemid=284Jun 01 09:54
schestowitzHaha! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrY7WmbWSn8&feature=relatedJun 01 10:00
DaemonFCI really hate Ben SteinJun 01 10:00
DaemonFCalways haveJun 01 10:01
schestowitzYeah, what a goon he is... Jun 01 10:11
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NSk_ZeAH_I&feature=relatedJun 01 10:11
schestowitzThat idiot Stein tries to associated Evoluiton with NazismJun 01 10:12
schestowitzHe should be shamedJun 01 10:12
schestowitzAlso, in the video above, watch how he uses the world "crusade" to describe DarwinismJun 01 10:13
schestowitzAtheism="Crusade"?Jun 01 10:13
schestowitzIt's like calling atheism a "religious cult"Jun 01 10:13
DaemonFCactually, I don't have a problem with them existing or believing whatever stupid crap they believeJun 01 10:15
oiaohmSome MS users are a cult.   Head in sand about the problems they have.Jun 01 10:16
DaemonFCChristians and Jews have the biggest persecution complex everJun 01 10:16
DaemonFCif you don't believe the way they do, you're "the enemy"Jun 01 10:16
oiaohmI am a Buddhist/Christian.   So I don't have that persecution complex.Jun 01 10:16
DaemonFCYou can be a Buddhist and a Christian, but not a Christian and a BuddhistJun 01 10:17
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 10:17
oiaohmEither way is acceptable to Buddists.Jun 01 10:18
DaemonFCChristianity does not accept, tolerate, or want to coexist with anything or anyone elseJun 01 10:18
DaemonFCthey all want to slash and burn, kill or convertJun 01 10:18
DaemonFCif they don't murder you for not converting, it's because there are lawsJun 01 10:18
DaemonFCand even that doesn't always stop themJun 01 10:18
DaemonFCChristians have no problem with cold blooded murder to silence their criticsJun 01 10:19
DaemonFCno problem whatsoeverJun 01 10:19
oiaohmBuddhist rules are some of the best.  You don't have to believe in any of there gods.   Most of there gods go back to people christians would call sanits.  Key thing is your respect for others in Buddhism.Jun 01 10:20
DaemonFCthe Christians typically just use ad hominem attacks to try to discredit you if they can't murder you or otherwise shut you upJun 01 10:21
schestowitzI can't listen to that Evan Solomon moron!Jun 01 10:21
schestowitzHow is this clown on TV?Jun 01 10:21
schestowitzHe also attacked ChomskyJun 01 10:21
oiaohmIts my buddist side that puts me head to head with twitter.Jun 01 10:21
schestowitzNow DawkinsJun 01 10:21
schestowitzDaemonFC: your TV is kaputJun 01 10:21
schestowitzWith people like Beck..Jun 01 10:21
DaemonFCmy favorite one is all the lies they spread about minorities and gay peopleJun 01 10:21
schestowitzI can imagine..Jun 01 10:22
DaemonFCgay people are plotting...Jun 01 10:22
DaemonFCWhat am I plotting to do? Just ask the Christians!Jun 01 10:22
DaemonFCI'm plotting shit that nobody told me about yet I'm sureJun 01 10:22
schestowitzHaha.Jun 01 10:22
DaemonFCdidn't get the memoJun 01 10:22
oiaohmThinking from creature studies it suggest some gays come about from our polution of the earth that god gave us to take care of.Jun 01 10:22
schestowitzMaybe they'll be the next StalinJun 01 10:22
schestowitzThem and their "crusade"Jun 01 10:22
schestowitzThey'll rape your daughterJun 01 10:22
schestowitzAnd sell you to TEH ALIENSJun 01 10:23
oiaohmI can understand god kicking us out of the garden of eden.   We are a living destructive pest.Jun 01 10:24
DaemonFCschestowitz: You won't be smiling after I execute my plan that I'm planning to planJun 01 10:24
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 10:24
DaemonFCI don't know what it is, but it's going to be badJun 01 10:24
DaemonFC:PJun 01 10:24
schestowitzMaybe our mind will be kept so open that the brain will slip out too...Jun 01 10:25
schestowitzLike losing of the tail.Jun 01 10:25
oiaohmJust as long as it does not envolve demolishing me or the building I am in have fun DaemonFC.Jun 01 10:25
DaemonFCOK, you tell me, do you fear me and my cat, or do you fear Christian survivalists stocking up on assault rifles and rocket launchers and shit because Obama is the antichrist and will bring about the end of days?Jun 01 10:26
DaemonFCI mean I am scarier than thatJun 01 10:26
DaemonFCso I must be pretty badJun 01 10:26
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 10:26
oiaohmChemical experment goine wrong levelling a building?  bad?Jun 01 10:27
DaemonFCwhat's scary is that the government allows those crazy retarded militias to keep their weaponsJun 01 10:27
oiaohmYes my youth got really scary for me a few times.Jun 01 10:28
DaemonFCI don't know that 10,000 armed rednecks could take over the country, but it scares the hell out of me that there are 10,000 armed rednecks forming their own combat brigadesJun 01 10:28
oiaohmMost people collect guns.  There are a lot of simple explosive devices you can make that make guns look like a toy.Jun 01 10:28
DaemonFCheh, I blew up some telephone polesJun 01 10:29
DaemonFCwith M-80sJun 01 10:29
DaemonFCdoes that count?Jun 01 10:29
DaemonFCall you need is a cordless drill, an M-80, and a cigarette lighterJun 01 10:29
DaemonFCit'll snap the pole in halfJun 01 10:30
oiaohmTaking a red lazer amping the freq up and blowing 4 holes in the walls n s e w.Jun 01 10:30
oiaohmI did that in high school.Jun 01 10:30
oiaohmBy pure luck I missed me and the teacher.Jun 01 10:30
oiaohmGot the idea of storing light.  Kinda worked other than the material I choose acting as a freq changer.Jun 01 10:31
schestowitz> <DaemonFC> what's scary is that the government allows those crazy retarded militias to keep their weaponsJun 01 10:32
schestowitzWhat is "government?Jun 01 10:32
schestowitzIt's just peopleJun 01 10:32
schestowitzGuess which people...Jun 01 10:32
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DaemonFChmmmmJun 01 10:32
_Hicham_Hi All!Jun 01 10:32
_Hicham_Mr DaemonFCJun 01 10:32
DaemonFCWindows Media Player can't read the id3 tag in a FLAC fileJun 01 10:32
oiaohmAustralia only armmours are allowed to have large weapon collections DaemonFCJun 01 10:32
_Hicham_howdy?Jun 01 10:32
DaemonFCbut you can still make playlists out of themJun 01 10:33
ushimitsudokihowdyJun 01 10:33
oiaohmHi _Hicham_Jun 01 10:33
_Hicham_Mr DaemonFC is confirmed MS terroristJun 01 10:33
oiaohmIe people who know how to make weapons can have as many as they like.   Including having private tanks.Jun 01 10:33
DaemonFCI do have a semi automatic shotgunJun 01 10:33
_Hicham_he spread terror and horror in BNJun 01 10:33
DaemonFCand door breaching cartridges :)Jun 01 10:34
DaemonFCthose will also punch through most body armorJun 01 10:34
_Hicham_DaemonFC : put in your ass and shootJun 01 10:34
_Hicham_hahahahahahaJun 01 10:34
oiaohmNormal people are not trusted with that kind of weapons DaemonFC.   Armmours here are the acception they are allowed everything including mil grade stuff.Jun 01 10:35
DaemonFCyou can't buy door breaching cartridgesJun 01 10:35
schestowitzShells for tank artillery too?Jun 01 10:35
DaemonFCI acquired themJun 01 10:35
oiaohmYep schestowitzJun 01 10:35
oiaohmand the tanks to use them.Jun 01 10:36
schestowitzWhat for?Jun 01 10:36
schestowitzI hear that US veteran are recruitedJun 01 10:36
oiaohmThe are weapon developers.Jun 01 10:36
oiaohmThey are weapon developers.Jun 01 10:36
_Hicham_schestowitz : MS is sending him to kill uJun 01 10:36
schestowitzAs if the minority militias will riseJun 01 10:36
DaemonFCI've also filed the tips off the .38 bulletsJun 01 10:36
schestowitzMaybe civil warsJun 01 10:36
oiaohmSo they are allowed ot have everything.Jun 01 10:36
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 10:36
schestowitzBut why are they lettting them be armed?Jun 01 10:36
DaemonFCthat's not strictly legalJun 01 10:36
_Hicham_but oiaohm will defend usJun 01 10:36
oiaohmOnly one accept they are not allowed aircraft.Jun 01 10:36
_Hicham_oiaohm is a rough soldierJun 01 10:36
schestowitzAn exercise in natural destruction?Jun 01 10:37
DaemonFCI do have some trainingJun 01 10:37
schestowitzPigeon chasing army...Jun 01 10:37
schestowitzI used some Colt at the rangeJun 01 10:38
schestowitzI was a good shooter. Beat the class.Jun 01 10:38
DaemonFCevasive driving was the fun partJun 01 10:38
schestowitzAnyway, let's change topic..Jun 01 10:38
oiaohmschestowitz: person is a armmour they have the knowleddge to make any kind of weapon anyhow.Jun 01 10:38
schestowitzI've just posted newsJun 01 10:38
DaemonFCdriving through an obstacle course in reverseJun 01 10:38
schestowitzoiaohm: not good weaponsJun 01 10:39
DaemonFCat about 40 miles per hourJun 01 10:39
oiaohmNo point telling them they cannot buy something.Jun 01 10:39
oiaohmArmour to get is a 6 year course covering all parts of weapon design including reversing.  schestowitz.Jun 01 10:39
_Hicham_schestowitz : this DaemonFC is trying to bring the whole channel to jailJun 01 10:40
oiaohmYes they do know how to make weapons that work.Jun 01 10:40
schestowitzNot really, _Hicham_ Jun 01 10:40
schestowitzNothing illegal hereJun 01 10:40
schestowitzDebate is a way of resolving thisJun 01 10:40
schestowitz_Hicham_: if you follow closely you'll find we're anti-WarJun 01 10:40
oiaohmMost places there are legal ways to do everything.Jun 01 10:40
schestowitzBeing more towards pacificm is no crime.Jun 01 10:41
schestowitz*ismJun 01 10:41
_Hicham_DaemonFC is an aggressive personJun 01 10:41
_Hicham_he likes warJun 01 10:41
schestowitzResponsive, I thinkJun 01 10:41
schestowitzThey wage war against himJun 01 10:41
_Hicham_he should have been sent to IraqJun 01 10:41
_Hicham_so that he would never talk of weapons againJun 01 10:41
schestowitzThe US glorifies weaponsJun 01 10:42
schestowitzThey show people 3D models of weapons and helicopters and stuffJun 01 10:42
schestowitzThis way they can sell warJun 01 10:42
schestowitzIt's just means of buying consent. Glamorisation of weaponry.Jun 01 10:42
schestowitzVery, very disturbing..Jun 01 10:42
_Hicham_that is why they have the highest crime rate in the worldJun 01 10:43
_Hicham_killing is made easy in the USJun 01 10:43
_Hicham_people are treated like insects in thereJun 01 10:43
_Hicham_theoretically, the US will auto-destruct itselfJun 01 10:44
DaemonFCdoubtfulJun 01 10:44
_Hicham_its strength can become its weakness easilyJun 01 10:44
DaemonFCthe birthrate in the US is lower than the death rateJun 01 10:45
DaemonFCimmigration is raising the population thoughJun 01 10:45
_Hicham_probably DaemonFC will save the USJun 01 10:45
DaemonFCeventually we'll all just be one big happy shade of grayJun 01 10:45
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 10:45
_Hicham_do u have a plan to couter the US economy crisis?Jun 01 10:45
DaemonFCyeah, print more pretend money and pretend that it's worth somethingJun 01 10:46
DaemonFCworks for the rest of the worldJun 01 10:46
_Hicham_hahahahahaJun 01 10:46
_Hicham_really smart ideaJun 01 10:46
_Hicham_u r really Adam Smith of the new centuryJun 01 10:46
DaemonFCnow here I say something about "yada yada service based economy" and ignore the 15% unemploymentJun 01 10:47
_Hicham_do u know what is that called?Jun 01 10:47
DaemonFCand I'm a RepublicanJun 01 10:47
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 10:47
_Hicham_service based economy in the US?Jun 01 10:47
_Hicham_unemployment is more than 15%Jun 01 10:47
DaemonFCyeah, they were saying that the problems were temporary and the result of us switching to a service based economyJun 01 10:48
DaemonFCwhile the Bushies were in chargeJun 01 10:48
DaemonFCthen the whole rotten system fell apart right before they could shoehorn Bush 2.0 into officeJun 01 10:48
_Hicham_the US won't be even able to be a service based economyJun 01 10:49
_Hicham_East-South Asia is also strong in servicesJun 01 10:49
DaemonFCthe government let the housing scam continue even though they knew what it wasJun 01 10:49
DaemonFCbecause it was creating jobsJun 01 10:49
_Hicham_internally, yesJun 01 10:49
DaemonFCand they thought it would continue long enough to get McCain into officeJun 01 10:49
DaemonFCbefore it fell apartJun 01 10:49
DaemonFCand it didn'tJun 01 10:49
_Hicham_are u aware that the US is outsourcing more and more of its services?Jun 01 10:50
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DaemonFCand when it fell apart, the government through a trillion dollars at the banksters that caused the whole messJun 01 10:50
DaemonFCan orgyJun 01 10:50
DaemonFCa feeding frenzyJun 01 10:50
_Hicham_this outsourcing will make the US a hollow countryJun 01 10:50
DaemonFCpaid for with my moneyJun 01 10:50
DaemonFC*threwJun 01 10:51
DaemonFCthen the banksters used the money to finance even more fucking over of the poor and middle classJun 01 10:51
DaemonFCthey preyed on the poor and middle class and were rewarded with a trillion dollar bonus paid for by the poor and middle classJun 01 10:52
DaemonFCthe same people that were being foreclosed onJun 01 10:52
_Hicham_the US is in a critical stateJun 01 10:52
DaemonFCand having their credit card rate jacked up even if they managed to pay on time every timeJun 01 10:53
_Hicham_they don't know how to counter ChinaJun 01 10:53
_Hicham_they must go into IranJun 01 10:53
DaemonFCI'd prefer we didn'tJun 01 10:53
_Hicham_if they ever go into Iran, you will be plain fucked Mr DaemonFCJun 01 10:53
DaemonFCIran doesn't have anything capable of hitting the USJun 01 10:53
_Hicham_because you will lose what is left in banksJun 01 10:54
_Hicham_they don't have to hit uJun 01 10:54
DaemonFClets let them kick the ass of some other country and then have the world beg us to come helpJun 01 10:54
DaemonFCcause you know that's what will happenJun 01 10:54
_Hicham_it won'tJun 01 10:54
_Hicham_Iran is smarter than thatJun 01 10:54
DaemonFCwe should not invade, we should just destroy their ability to operateJun 01 10:55
_Hicham_the US can't recover from the crisis and still be in IraqJun 01 10:55
DaemonFCoh something will happen alrightJun 01 10:55
_Hicham_no, nothing will happenJun 01 10:55
DaemonFCtheir neighbors are opportunists and their own citizens would revolt against what's left of the governmentJun 01 10:55
DaemonFCall we'd have to do is sit back and let them kill each otherJun 01 10:56
_Hicham_their citizens love the govenmentJun 01 10:56
DaemonFCyeah, the ones that aren't murdered in the streetsJun 01 10:56
_Hicham_countries are more and more aware of US old strategyJun 01 10:56
DaemonFCIran is a bunch of pig fuckersJun 01 10:56
DaemonFCto be kind to themJun 01 10:56
DaemonFCthey execute teenagers who haven't even done anything wrongJun 01 10:57
_Hicham_who told u that?Jun 01 10:57
DaemonFCthey're barbariansJun 01 10:57
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3")Jun 01 10:57
DaemonFCthey murder gay peopleJun 01 10:57
DaemonFCeven teenagersJun 01 10:57
DaemonFCpublicallyJun 01 10:57
DaemonFC*publiclyJun 01 10:57
DaemonFCthey're crazy and uncivilizedJun 01 10:57
schestowitzDaemonFC: enough, pleaseJun 01 10:58
schestowitzGeneralisations and all.Jun 01 10:58
DaemonFCno, they murdered a 14 and 16 year old publiclyJun 01 10:58
DaemonFCby hangingJun 01 10:58
schestowitzNo more Fox Channel on yo' boxJun 01 10:58
DaemonFCyou can even google thatJun 01 10:58
DaemonFCthe government is from the middle agesJun 01 10:58
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Asgari_and_Ayaz_MarhoniJun 01 10:59
DaemonFCMahmoud Asgari, 16, (Persian: ????? ?????) and Ayaz Marhoni, 18, (Persian: ???? ??????) were Iranian teenagers from the province of Khuzestan who were publicly hanged in Edalat (Justice) Square in Mashhad, northeast Iran, on July 19, 2005.Jun 01 10:59
DaemonFCThe case attracted the attention of the international media because of deeply disturbing photographs of the two as they were taken to be hanged. Many human rights activists found them a powerful, emotional indictment of the death penalty.Jun 01 10:59
DaemonFCThe British group OutRage! initially alleged that the boys had been executed for engaging in consensual homosexual sex.Jun 01 10:59
DaemonFCThey have emphasized instead that the executions are a violation of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (Iran is a signatory to both), which prohibit the execution of minors.Jun 01 10:59
DaemonFCthis isn't some crazy Fox News thingJun 01 11:01
DaemonFCIran is jsut like thatJun 01 11:01
DaemonFCand the people that do these things deserve no mercyJun 01 11:01
_Hicham_the US is no betterJun 01 11:01
DaemonFCif there was any real justice in the world, the people that did this to those boys would be brought up on chargesJun 01 11:01
DaemonFCIran is despicableJun 01 11:02
_Hicham_the US is filled with child molestersJun 01 11:02
DaemonFCyeah, well, we have the rule of lawJun 01 11:02
DaemonFCunlike IranJun 01 11:02
DaemonFCthey just have crazy fucking  MuslimsJun 01 11:02
_Hicham_child porn is number 1 in the USJun 01 11:02
DaemonFCyeah, and it's also a crime and the people that get caught are given a fair trialJun 01 11:03
DaemonFCby juryJun 01 11:03
DaemonFCunlike IranJun 01 11:03
DaemonFCIran just murders you if you're even accused of breaking their religious lawJun 01 11:03
_Hicham_normalJun 01 11:03
_Hicham_try to say sthg about Israel in the USJun 01 11:03
_Hicham_and u will seeJun 01 11:04
DaemonFCno, the US is not like Iran, I've never seen anyone just get strung up in the streetsJun 01 11:04
DaemonFCIran is worse than the US has ever been or ever will beJun 01 11:04
_Hicham_they will publicly take your pants off and fuck you in front of the White HouseJun 01 11:04
_Hicham_just try to say sthg bad about IsraelJun 01 11:04
DaemonFCIsrael doesn't murder gay people in the streetsJun 01 11:05
DaemonFCactually, they recognize civil unions thereJun 01 11:05
DaemonFCit's nothing like the Muslim countries at allJun 01 11:05
_Hicham_gay people get murdered by themselvesJun 01 11:05
_Hicham_they kill each other at lastJun 01 11:05
DaemonFCMuslims just disgust me like few things are even capableJun 01 11:06
DaemonFCthey have no decencyJun 01 11:06
_Hicham_homosexuality should be treatedJun 01 11:06
_Hicham_it is a diseaseJun 01 11:06
DaemonFCno you are a diseaseJun 01 11:06
_Hicham_it is against human natureJun 01 11:06
DaemonFCand should be treatedJun 01 11:06
_Hicham_go google for thatJun 01 11:07
DaemonFC_Hicham_: I'm not subject to your opinionsJun 01 11:07
DaemonFCand I'm sorry that you have been decieved by religionJun 01 11:07
_Hicham_I am not deceived by religionJun 01 11:07
DaemonFCthere's nothing wrong with meJun 01 11:07
_Hicham_I am convincedJun 01 11:07
DaemonFCwell, you're an idiotJun 01 11:07
_Hicham_because I try to use my mind when seeing thingsJun 01 11:08
DaemonFCand I am convinced of thatJun 01 11:08
DaemonFConly a barbarian would even still think like you doJun 01 11:08
_Hicham_go see the number of gays who killed each other, and the number of gay suicideJun 01 11:08
DaemonFCyou're wrongJun 01 11:08
DaemonFCand you are filled with hateJun 01 11:08
_Hicham_I am not filled with hateJun 01 11:09
DaemonFCfunny how people like you say there's something wrong with meJun 01 11:09
DaemonFCyou form your own twisted opinions of people around youJun 01 11:09
_Hicham_I didn't say there is sthg wrong with uJun 01 11:09
DaemonFCeven when you obviously have no understanding of themJun 01 11:09
DaemonFCyou are a sociopathJun 01 11:09
_Hicham_I am not forming it of people around meJun 01 11:09
_Hicham_if I was in the US, I would have had the same opinionsJun 01 11:10
DaemonFCI'm sure you hate me because someone told you toJun 01 11:10
_Hicham_why should I hate u?Jun 01 11:10
DaemonFCyou're so blinded by hate that you would never get a chance to know someoneJun 01 11:10
_Hicham_I don't hate anyoneJun 01 11:10
DaemonFCjust hate them because someone told you toJun 01 11:10
_Hicham_I am open to anyoneJun 01 11:10
DaemonFCyeah, that's the excuse you people always hide behindJun 01 11:11
_goblin_hitcham_: Its a trap don't fall for it.Jun 01 11:11
schestowitzYeah.Jun 01 11:11
DaemonFC"We don't hate you, you're jsut a pervert who is going to hell"Jun 01 11:11
schestowitzLet's change subjectJun 01 11:11
DaemonFC"You're mentally ill"Jun 01 11:11
_Hicham_you are just making things upJun 01 11:11
_goblinDaemonFC: I know nothing of your background (nor is it relevant) but your vulgar (and rude) posts do the talking for you.Jun 01 11:12
_Hicham_and u r impulsiveJun 01 11:12
DaemonFCno, you're presenting false factoids you got from some cleric or preacher or rabbi or whatever you believe inJun 01 11:12
DaemonFCand you're trying to belittle me even though you don't even know meJun 01 11:12
_goblinYour comments are niether appropriate nor relevant to the BN chatroom (IMO)Jun 01 11:12
_Hicham_I am presenting sthg from scientists Mr DaemonFCJun 01 11:12
DaemonFCwhich really says more about youJun 01 11:12
DaemonFCno you aren'tJun 01 11:13
DaemonFCyou're presenting things that someone (possibly you?) made upJun 01 11:13
_goblinYes Daemon, Im trying to belittle you by staying polite and not vulgar?!?! Unlike you.Jun 01 11:13
_Hicham_you really didn't read about thatJun 01 11:13
DaemonFCbecause no scientist would ever just blurt out something that obviously false and boneheadedJun 01 11:13
_goblinDaemon you are belittling yourself and doing a far better job than I could.Jun 01 11:13
_goblincan we now move topic??Jun 01 11:13
schestowitzmarbux keeps mailing me those long attacks against Rob Wier...    Jun 01 11:14
schestowitzI just got this:Jun 01 11:14
schestowitzI wonder what, if anything, this might have to do with last two weeks'Jun 01 11:14
schestowitzinvitations from various MSFTers like Gary Edward to join his group onJun 01 11:14
schestowitzFacebook?Jun 01 11:14
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/all-the-microsoft-emploshills-join-forces/Jun 01 11:14
schestowitzGathering info about who is working where with whom?Jun 01 11:14
schestowitzBasically, Microsoft is still very hostile t/w ODFJun 01 11:15
schestowitzThey have bizarre new tacticsJun 01 11:15
schestowitzAnd they use their 'TEs' (shills) in the process on the face of itJun 01 11:15
schestowitzSomeone should call Neelie ;-)Jun 01 11:16
oiaohmODF gets stronger MS get weaker.Jun 01 11:16
_Hicham_ODF is more complete than MS XML formatJun 01 11:16
oiaohmODF standard doc is writen as a standard doc.   OOXML standard doc is writen as a hybred between a standard doc and programming guide and samples.  Basically huge mother of a mess.Jun 01 11:17
oiaohmAnd explains why MS has so many internal problems.Jun 01 11:18
_Hicham_MS want to lock the format to its platform as alwaysJun 01 11:18
DaemonFCOOXML works in OpenOffice with an add-onJun 01 11:19
_Hicham_Novell add-onJun 01 11:19
schestowitzHaha!Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzhttp://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.bing.comJun 01 11:19
schestowitzADSL endpoints NAT conections only      84.45.224.15    Linux   unknown 30-May-2009Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzADSL endpoints NAT conections only      84.45.224.8     Linux   unknown 28-May-2009Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzADSL endpoints NAT conections only      84.45.224.9     Linux   unknown 28-May-2009Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzADSL endpoints NAT conections only      84.45.224.9     Linux   unknown 27-May-2009Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzAkamai Technologies     92.122.126.232  Linux   unknown 27-May-2009Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzAkamai Technologies     92.122.208.235  Linux   unknown 26-May-2009Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzADSL endpoints NAT conections only      84.45.224.9     Linux   unknown 22-May-2009Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzAkamai Technologies     92.122.127.19   Linux   unknown 21-May-2009Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzDOTSTER INC 8100 NE PARKWAY DR FLOOR 3 VANCOUVER WA US 98662    66.150.161.135Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzLinux   Apache/1.3.26 Unix PHP/4.2.3    12-Jul-2003Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzDOTSTER INC 8100 NE PARKWAY DR FLOOR 3 VANCOUVER WA US 98662    66.150.161.133Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzLinux   Apache/1.3.26 Unix PHP/4.2.3    10-Jul-2003Jun 01 11:19
schestowitzoiaohm: ODF is the route for man government out of MS OfficeJun 01 11:20
schestowitzWhen MS Office goes out, so does Windows, in due timeJun 01 11:20
schestowitzMicrosoft understands thisJun 01 11:20
schestowitzNow Ecuador joins ODFJun 01 11:20
oiaohmHmmJun 01 11:20
schestowitzGovernments are where money is madeJun 01 11:20
schestowitzBecause in most countries they allow counterfeiting outside govt.Jun 01 11:20
schestowitzAnd the govt. impacts companies and thus people's use of computers tooJun 01 11:21
DaemonFCevery office suite that wants to stay relevant is supporting OOXMLJun 01 11:21
schestowitzIf the govt. uses ODF and OOo, then others might soon followJun 01 11:21
DaemonFCOOo just has to be petty and won't let you save to itJun 01 11:21
DaemonFCwithout the extensionJun 01 11:21
oiaohmKofficeJun 01 11:21
schestowitzOOXML needs WindowsJun 01 11:21
DaemonFCno it doesn'tJun 01 11:21
schestowitzThere are plat-specific parts in itJun 01 11:21
_goblinheres a cracking comment for you:  "Its good to be a Microsoft nerd because apple is over rated and designed for aesthetics not functionality"Jun 01 11:21
schestowitzIt can't be implementedJun 01 11:21
schestowitzAnd MS keeps extending its weird variants of OOXMLJun 01 11:22
oiaohmNot can't be implemented.Jun 01 11:22
oiaohmInsanely hard to implement.Jun 01 11:22
schestowitzIt never even implemented OOXMLJun 01 11:22
schestowitzit never willJun 01 11:22
schestowitzoiaohm: it's not implementJun 01 11:23
schestowitzIt's replicateJun 01 11:23
schestowitzAnd it's not OOXMLJun 01 11:23
schestowitzOOXML is not the yard stickJun 01 11:23
schestowitzMicrosoft does not implment OOXMLJun 01 11:23
schestowitzits docx format is still a secretJun 01 11:23
schestowitzNot documentedJun 01 11:23
schestowitzNo source code, eitherJun 01 11:23
schestowitzECMA OOXML=red herringJun 01 11:23
schestowitzLike the US amendment to the constitutionJun 01 11:24
_Hicham_docx is a compressed archive of xml filesJun 01 11:24
schestowitzB[ush]allmer is trampling on themJun 01 11:24
oiaohmAs we get more arm and mips in the market importance of windows will reduce.Jun 01 11:25
oiaohmThe market is now basically posionsed.Jun 01 11:25
schestowitzIt already isJun 01 11:25
schestowitzWith or without ARMJun 01 11:25
schestowitzor MIPS for that matterJun 01 11:26
schestowitzRISCJun 01 11:26
oiaohmArm and mips introduce platforms Windows cannot run on.Jun 01 11:26
schestowitzSoftware monocultre requires h/w monocultureJun 01 11:26
oiaohmSo segmenting the market.Jun 01 11:26
schestowitzThat's why MS never made it big in phoneJun 01 11:26
schestowitzLost billionsJun 01 11:26
oiaohmMips and arm units will most likely sell for the same reason EEE Pc did.Jun 01 11:27
oiaohmThey are cheep and do what most people need.Jun 01 11:27
DaemonFCI don't really know how OOo can say it's Microsoft compatible when it obviously idn'tJun 01 11:27
DaemonFCyou get files in docx but it won't let you save them is thatJun 01 11:27
*Eruaran has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jun 01 11:27
_Hicham_why save files in docx?Jun 01 11:28
DaemonFCyou can convert them to odt and get teh standard "What the hell is this?" when you give it to someoneJun 01 11:28
oiaohmCompatible does not required to be save back in a format.Jun 01 11:28
DaemonFCor you can get the Novell export filterJun 01 11:28
DaemonFCor you can buy Microsoft OfficeJun 01 11:28
oiaohmParticular a format that is changing between office versions.Jun 01 11:28
_Hicham_DaemonFC is promoting docxJun 01 11:28
_Hicham_as alwaysJun 01 11:28
oiaohmThere are incompadiblitys even between MS Office 2007 service packs.Jun 01 11:28
oiaohmwith ooxml.Jun 01 11:29
DaemonFCno, I can't just send an odt file to someone and expect them to download another office suite to open itJun 01 11:29
oiaohmBasically if someone cannot make a format that works you don't have to save as it.Jun 01 11:29
_Hicham_there is incompatibilities within the same version of OfficeJun 01 11:29
DaemonFCthe reason OOo can't save natively is to try to spam OOoJun 01 11:29
oiaohmThere is a odt engine for MS Office.Jun 01 11:29
_Hicham_OpenOffice is far more robust than MS OfficeJun 01 11:29
oiaohmSo what is the problem.Jun 01 11:29
oiaohmYou save in stable formats.Jun 01 11:29
DaemonFCyou have to download a 80 meg file from SunJun 01 11:29
DaemonFCto open a documentJun 01 11:29
_Hicham_DaemonFC : you can save it in doc formatJun 01 11:29
oiaohmWhen MS gets there formats sorted out maybe then support ooxml proper.Jun 01 11:30
_Hicham_doc format is more spread than docxJun 01 11:30
oiaohmAt this stage MS is still changing mind on how sections of ooxml works.Jun 01 11:30
_Hicham_I don't see where is the problemJun 01 11:30
oiaohmWise would be to stick to old doc that is more stable or odf.Jun 01 11:30
_Hicham_a lot of people are still using Office 2003 and earlierJun 01 11:31
DaemonFCwell, you can't save your modifications without requiring everyone you send that file to download OOoJun 01 11:31
oiaohmBoth are at least decently stable formats.Jun 01 11:31
DaemonFCwhich is the whole point for OOo to be incompatibleJun 01 11:31
oiaohmNo DaemonFCJun 01 11:31
oiaohmOOo did implement a ooxml writer as per standard.Jun 01 11:31
oiaohmGuess what.Jun 01 11:31
oiaohmMS Office 2007 cannot even open the files.Jun 01 11:31
oiaohmThe files produced are purely to standard.Jun 01 11:32
oiaohmTurns out you have to break standard so MS Office 2007 can open them.Jun 01 11:32
_Hicham_"I am trolling, I am trolling, far away, into BN", a song made by DaemonFCJun 01 11:32
DaemonFC_Hicham_ has a mental illnessJun 01 11:32
oiaohmBasically when MS gets there implementation and standard matching then OOo has to support it.Jun 01 11:33
DaemonFCit's a scientific fact that _Hicham_ will go kill himselfJun 01 11:33
oiaohmIs it bugs in 2007 that will be fixed?Jun 01 11:33
*DaemonFC likes pulling obvious lies out of his ass, just like _Hicham_Jun 01 11:33
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 11:33
oiaohmOr is it bugs in standards.Jun 01 11:33
_goblinis DaemonFC supposed to be a troll?Jun 01 11:33
_goblinall they seem to do is stimulate debateJun 01 11:33
oiaohmWhy should OOo be a mind reader here DaemonFC?Jun 01 11:33
_Hicham_no, DaemonFC is a confirmed trollJun 01 11:33
_Hicham_signed by MSJun 01 11:34
_goblinhe's not very goodJun 01 11:34
DaemonFCthe filter to let OOo save to Office 2007 files is 4 megsJun 01 11:34
_Hicham_he exists in their WHCLJun 01 11:34
_goblinMS would pay for that?Jun 01 11:34
DaemonFCand produces files that work with Office 2007Jun 01 11:34
oiaohmDaemonFC: Match filter to standard and it invalid.Jun 01 11:34
_Hicham_Yes, they pay his internet connectionJun 01 11:34
_goblinlolJun 01 11:34
oiaohmOpenoffice lead developers decide not to take part in releasing breach of standard.Jun 01 11:35
oiaohmIf Novell wants to that is there option.Jun 01 11:35
oiaohmFiles produced in breach of standard are no good for archiving.Jun 01 11:36
DaemonFCso in otherwords, it needs third party plugins to do what you downloaded it to doJun 01 11:36
oiaohmIn other words you should be asking very big questions why saving in a broken format.Jun 01 11:36
_Hicham_praising MS oiaohmJun 01 11:36
_Hicham_as alwaysJun 01 11:36
oiaohmThat may be 100 useless to you in future DaemonFC.Jun 01 11:37
_Hicham_he is a small MS fanboy oiaohmJun 01 11:37
_Hicham_he is Windows compatibleJun 01 11:37
oiaohmIf you choose to go that path OOo has just made sure they cannot be blamed for your problems DaemonFCJun 01 11:37
_Hicham_and Windows specificJun 01 11:37
oiaohmI cannot blame them for taking that path.Jun 01 11:38
_Hicham_they are taking the most reasonable pathJun 01 11:38
_Hicham_not Mr DaemonFC's pathJun 01 11:38
oiaohmI can blame MS for not being able to implement there own standard correctly so causing OOo not to support OOXML.Jun 01 11:38
_Hicham_don't worry, DaemonFC will implement it soonJun 01 11:39
oiaohmBy the way failing to implement OOXML correctly explains why MS networking with new versions of Windows and old versions of Windows is so hit and miss.Jun 01 11:39
_Hicham_isn't it Mr DaemonFC?Jun 01 11:39
oiaohmIt undermines everything MS tech DaemonFCJun 01 11:40
oiaohmTo build good quality programs you must be able to produce standards and follow them.Jun 01 11:40
_goblinI think you've upset him.Jun 01 11:41
_Hicham_they never had good quality programsJun 01 11:41
_Hicham_apart Visual StudioJun 01 11:41
oiaohmOOXML was open to the public that showed what was going on.Jun 01 11:41
_Hicham_Visual Studio is their only good producJun 01 11:41
_Hicham_productJun 01 11:41
_goblinThe new calculator for 7 is apparently quite good. ;)Jun 01 11:41
oiaohmeven Visual Studio has version compadiblity problems.Jun 01 11:42
_Hicham_great new _goblinJun 01 11:42
_goblinAndre Da Costa said so, so it must be true !?!Jun 01 11:42
oiaohmwhat most likely track to this lack of standard following ablity.Jun 01 11:42
_Hicham__goblin : by the way, where is the big G?Jun 01 11:42
_goblinBig G?Jun 01 11:42
oiaohmOOXML is a stupid thing for a MS person to use to attack anything.Jun 01 11:42
_Hicham_yes, as _GoblinJun 01 11:42
oiaohmIt pure evidence of MS internal problems.Jun 01 11:43
_goblinah! :)Jun 01 11:43
*_goblin is now known as _GoblinJun 01 11:43
_Hicham_oiaohm : DaemonFC is working on thatJun 01 11:43
DaemonFChttp://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7696/57251528.pngJun 01 11:43
_GoblinI hope he brings back Clippy.  He represented MS far better than BallmerJun 01 11:44
oiaohmI am not 100 perent pro Linux.Jun 01 11:44
oiaohmThere are many items I would never use to make a case on either side.Jun 01 11:44
_Hicham_DaemonFC : great discoveryJun 01 11:45
_GoblinI think though because shills have never actually used anything other than MS, they have poor counter arguments.Jun 01 11:45
_GoblinI think a Linux user could make a very good Windows shill.Jun 01 11:45
_Hicham_fuck WindowsJun 01 11:46
_Hicham_I used every trick to secure it, but it is insecure by definitionJun 01 11:46
_Goblinkeep it offline?Jun 01 11:47
_Hicham_DaemonFCOS is the OS of the futureJun 01 11:47
_Goblinlol.Jun 01 11:47
DaemonFCno, you're insecureJun 01 11:47
*DaemonFC gives _Hicham_ a hugJun 01 11:47
_Goblinwhat about me?Jun 01 11:47
oiaohmBesides most business I deal with are running office 2003Jun 01 11:47
_Hicham_thanks DaemonFCJun 01 11:47
oiaohmSo cannot open docx anyhow.Jun 01 11:47
DaemonFCcareful _Hicham_ I have cootiesJun 01 11:48
DaemonFCremember? :)Jun 01 11:48
_GoblinIts OK, Hicham uses Linux.  He wont get infected.Jun 01 11:48
DaemonFCOOo can save to Word 2003 XMLJun 01 11:48
_Hicham_no problem, I am not afraid of dyingJun 01 11:48
oiaohmNot standard. DaemonFCJun 01 11:48
_Hicham_DaemonFC : I faced death many timesJun 01 11:48
_GoblinDaemonFC: Can I ask you a sensible question?Jun 01 11:49
_Hicham__Goblin : go ask him, he is coolJun 01 11:50
_GoblinWhy on earth do you come here? (thats not saying your not welcome, I just want to understand your motives)Jun 01 11:50
_Hicham_he LOVES MSJun 01 11:50
oiaohmSorry miss read.Jun 01 11:50
_Hicham_he is deeply in love with MSJun 01 11:50
oiaohmWord 2003 XML is not docxJun 01 11:50
_GoblinBut he's doing no good for them...Jun 01 11:51
oiaohmIt also throws away large sections of documents.Jun 01 11:51
_Hicham_Word XML is very slowJun 01 11:51
_Goblinhe's failed to understand that whilst he tries to counter he makes a platform for more uncomfortable truths about Microsoft..Jun 01 11:51
oiaohmIts ms first attempt at a XML format.  They did manage to implement Word 2003 XML to there documentation.Jun 01 11:51
oiaohmSo OpenOffice support it.Jun 01 11:51
oiaohmLack of support is either lack of coders.  Or some problem with the format itself.Jun 01 11:52
_Hicham_Microsoft do not release documentation for non profitable productsJun 01 11:52
_Hicham_OOXML specs are weirdJun 01 11:53
_Hicham_just like DaemonFCJun 01 11:53
oiaohmNot just weirdJun 01 11:53
oiaohmYou make test cases from them and they don't work with MS Office 2007.Jun 01 11:53
oiaohmAt testcases made from ODF documentation works.Jun 01 11:54
oiaohmSame with test cases made from Word 2003 XML.Jun 01 11:54
_Hicham_where are u Mr DaemonFC?Jun 01 11:56
_Hicham_he is gone asleep I thinkJun 01 11:56
schestowitzMaybe the doctor :-) j/kJun 01 11:56
oiaohmIts also why ODF makes blew there stack at MS for puting OOXML formulars in ODF spreed sheets.Jun 01 11:57
schestowitzI'm doing a short post on MOXXJun 01 11:57
schestowitzMicrosoft is attacking ODF againJun 01 11:57
oiaohm1.2 draft spec has how to do them correctly for future.Jun 01 11:57
oiaohmMS is now trying to take the line they will not implement anything in a draft spec.Jun 01 11:58
oiaohmSo meaning there producs will lag in support of like html5 features.Jun 01 11:58
_Hicham_Internet Explorer won't support HTML5 featuresJun 01 11:59
_Hicham_vive dailymotionJun 01 11:59
oiaohmAnd youtubeJun 01 12:00
_Hicham_dailymotion will free the web of flashJun 01 12:00
oiaohmAnd a lot more sites that can get out of risk of paying adobe in future.Jun 01 12:00
_Hicham_will youtube use HTML5 features?Jun 01 12:00
oiaohmYep there is already a test access to enter youtube on and avoid flash on almost everything played.Jun 01 12:01
_Hicham_is it on the main page?Jun 01 12:01
oiaohmGoogle is going html5 in a big way.Jun 01 12:01
_GoblinFound myself a cracker on Twitter...he'll be up in a new article soon.Jun 01 12:01
_Hicham_oiaohm : give me that test access url plzJun 01 12:02
DaemonFCnobody will drive away 66% of their viewersJun 01 12:02
oiaohmhttp://www.youtube.com/html5Jun 01 12:02
_GoblinA Media Student/Blockbuster staff member who has declared OSx as "trash" (and obviously thinks Vista is great) This one should be good.Jun 01 12:02
oiaohmThere are still limiting stuff through it _Hicham_Jun 01 12:02
oiaohmPlan will see flash by by.Jun 01 12:03
oiaohmTurns out it will save google downloads.Jun 01 12:03
_Hicham_so Adobe's flash will just die?Jun 01 12:04
oiaohmAdobe flash will reduce back to protected content.Jun 01 12:05
oiaohmAnd maybe games.Jun 01 12:05
_Hicham_games can be done in svgJun 01 12:05
oiaohmIts more how fast can javascript run in a browser.Jun 01 12:06
oiaohmand download cost.Jun 01 12:06
oiaohmBytecode encoded javascript Adobeflash has might come into its own for games.Jun 01 12:06
_Hicham_Javascript is running faster with V8 and tracemonkeyJun 01 12:06
oiaohmNow if html6 has a javascript bytecode then Adobe flash will be restricted to 1 thing.Jun 01 12:06
_Hicham_what is it?Jun 01 12:07
oiaohmProtected content is 1 thing html5 does not support at all.Jun 01 12:07
schestowitzMicrosoft Starts Attacking the ODF Alliance, Sends Paid Wikipedia Editors to ODF Article < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/microsoft-attacks-odf-alliance/  >Jun 01 12:08
schestowitzODF Alliance Newsletter: Ecuador Joins the Club < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/odf-ecuador-joins-the-club/ >Jun 01 12:08
oiaohm_Hicham_ but the bytecode might be undermided by html compression.Jun 01 12:09
oiaohmBasically until we get lots of stuff implemented with html5 we will not realy know how far flash has been pushed backwards.Jun 01 12:10
_Hicham_we can add up some php thing in itJun 01 12:10
oiaohmWe know for sure its pushed backwards.   How far magical question.Jun 01 12:10
_Hicham_to protect contentJun 01 12:11
oiaohmNoJun 01 12:11
oiaohmProtect content might be able to be codec doable.Jun 01 12:11
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oiaohmBut there is no standard codec for that.Jun 01 12:11
oiaohmFor html5Jun 01 12:11
oiaohmIn time there is no reason why flashs usefulness to everyone could not be completely nuked.  It just will not be html5.Jun 01 12:12
_Hicham_the standard codec is TheoraJun 01 12:12
oiaohmTheora is not a protected codec.  Ie the bugger that everyone hates that stop you from coping it _Hicham_Jun 01 12:13
_Hicham_I knowJun 01 12:13
_Hicham_copy protection is just a mythJun 01 12:13
_Hicham_you can copy everythingJun 01 12:14
oiaohmNot the way hdmi are planing.Jun 01 12:14
oiaohmPlay back in screen.Jun 01 12:14
oiaohmNo decoding in client computer.  Its just a transfer pointJun 01 12:15
_Hicham_like DRM'ed Windows Media?Jun 01 12:16
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_Hicham_wb Senor taconeJun 01 12:19
taconehelloJun 01 12:20
schestowitzBing runs Linux.......Jun 01 12:21
schestowitzThe SE with the three nipples runs the commie codeJun 01 12:22
schestowitzMicrosoft is slowly learning about searchJun 01 12:23
schestowitzSearch one: don' t use toys like Windows. use a real O/SJun 01 12:23
schestowitzBut the incompetence will prevent the SE from making inroadsJun 01 12:23
schestowitzNew article about how to remove Mono: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25352/1090/Jun 01 12:24
_Hicham_can Mono be removed from openSUSE?Jun 01 12:25
schestowitzThat's like asking if .NET can be removed from VistaJun 01 12:25
_Hicham_have u ever tried to?Jun 01 12:27
_Hicham_there is no Mono libraries by default in Debian and FedoraJun 01 12:27
_Hicham_Ubuntu is the only distro plagued by MonoJun 01 12:28
DaemonFCschestowitz: proof?Jun 01 12:31
DaemonFChttp://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=live.comJun 01 12:32
DaemonFCWindows Server 2003  Microsoft-IIS/6.0Jun 01 12:32
DaemonFChttp://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=bing.comJun 01 12:33
DaemonFCF5 Big-IP  unknownJun 01 12:33
schestowitz"plagued.."Jun 01 12:34
schestowitz<schestowitz> http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.bing.comJun 01 12:34
schestowitz<schestowitz> ADSL endpoints NAT conections only      84.45.224.15    Linux   unknown 30-May-2009Jun 01 12:34
schestowitz<schestowitz> ADSL endpoints NAT conections only      84.45.224.8     Linux   unknown 28-May-2009Jun 01 12:34
schestowitz<schestowitz> ADSL endpoints NAT conections only      84.45.224.9     Linux   unknown 28-May-2009Jun 01 12:34
schestowitz<schestowitz> ADSL endpoints NAT conections only      84.45.224.9     Linux   unknown 27-May-2009Jun 01 12:34
taconeuh ! it's liveJun 01 12:35
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taconeno ! live.com doesn't exist anymore ! :((Jun 01 12:35
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*_Hicham_1 is now known as _Hicham_Jun 01 12:36
taconeit sucked so much it was sort of trash art.Jun 01 12:36
taconebing is too much aggressive in displaying regional resultsJun 01 12:38
_Hicham_Microsoft uses akamai for its sensitive websitesJun 01 12:40
_Hicham_they can't face the web with their serversJun 01 12:40
taconeit's not akamaiJun 01 12:40
taconeit's about default settings.Jun 01 12:40
taconei'm in italy so i get quite only italian pagesJun 01 12:41
taconei had to set my location as US to get something relevant.Jun 01 12:41
oiaohm_Hicham_: Not like DRM Windows Media.  That has decoding in client.   Current plan looks like complete seperation.  It even includes moving some 3d support into monitor.Jun 01 12:41
_Hicham_3d support into monitor?Jun 01 12:42
schestowitzSomeone uses my name to spread spam now: http://dev.communityserver.com/members/schestowitz/default.aspx "Thu, May 28 2009"Jun 01 12:43
oiaohmNext version of hdmi includes some really strange features _Hicham_Jun 01 12:43
oiaohm3d in monitor 100 speed network connection from scren to client.Jun 01 12:43
oiaohmBasically monitor far more than a monitor _Hicham_.Jun 01 12:44
oiaohmSo effectivelly playing back protected content computer might be acting no more than a rounter and told the screen where to draw it.Jun 01 12:47
oiaohmSo far we have not been hit with the worse copy protection guys can design.  _Hicham_  breaking something like this is the worst that can be made.Jun 01 12:52
MinceRgeekingsJun 01 13:02
DaemonFCAkamai uses LinuxJun 01 13:02
DaemonFCthey have for a whileJun 01 13:02
DaemonFCaren't they affiliated with Yahell?Jun 01 13:02
oiaohmAkamai always has.Jun 01 13:03
DaemonFCBing is also buying Google AdwordsJun 01 13:03
oiaohmMs pays them to cache lot of there servers.Jun 01 13:03
oiaohmYes why its a joke when people say they don't use linux.Jun 01 13:04
oiaohmWindows updates come from Akamai mirrors running Linux.Jun 01 13:04
fewaso is HDMI still going to be compatible with DVI?Jun 01 13:04
fewaor are then EEEing it?Jun 01 13:05
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taconeschestowitz: http://www.osnews.com/story/21586/Mono_Moonlight_Patent_Encumbered_Or_Not_Jun 01 13:05
tacone"Novell says that "Moonlight will be available for Linux users on any distribution". Microsoft, on the other hand, states something completely different: they state that only Novell and intermediate recipients may ship Moonlight. "Jun 01 13:05
oiaohm1.2 HDMI has no mention of supporting DVI in the documenation I have read so far.  fewa.  Could have missed it.Jun 01 13:05
fewacause original HDMI was just DVI + DRMJun 01 13:06
fewawhich is why I dont see the point at allJun 01 13:06
oiaohmThe new one is not just that fewaJun 01 13:06
oiaohmMaking HDMI link be a network cable as well is really a new twist.Jun 01 13:07
fewabut then they will add in the DHCP to thatJun 01 13:07
fewaughhhhJun 01 13:07
fewa*HDCPJun 01 13:07
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DaemonFCdiscs still don't use the constraint tokenJun 01 13:08
oiaohmScreen having a IP number is supported fewa.Jun 01 13:09
fewa^^ i meant HDCPJun 01 13:09
schestowitzhttp://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=13604&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=0c8ee146194f73fe2ddcec26643282c1&start=7 "Shields is only a side-show since he is clearly just channelling what he thinks to be true from De Icaza."Jun 01 13:09
fewatoo much alphabet soupJun 01 13:10
oiaohmSo far implentation in screen in not covered.  fewaJun 01 13:10
oiaohmIn theory with a net connection it could update from net.Jun 01 13:10
oiaohmNot having to be a fixed system like HDCP is.Jun 01 13:10
fewaputting DRM in networking protocols is a dangerous presedent that could lead to loss of network neutralityJun 01 13:10
oiaohmExactly the options the new hdmi are opening up worry me.Jun 01 13:11
fewaits like plugging in a TV and having the power company decide if it will let your device recieve power based on being SONY, panisonic, having paid your bbc licence, etcJun 01 13:11
fewaas little as I like DRM, if it has to exist it must be at the application level, not the network layerJun 01 13:12
oiaohmProblem is DRM makers know at the application level its a open target.Jun 01 13:13
fewaoiaohm, so they have to make the whole system a closed fense?Jun 01 13:13
oiaohmAnd open from complents that particular OS's are not supported.Jun 01 13:13
oiaohmCures the people upset particular platforms are not supported.Jun 01 13:14
oiaohmEveryone is supported equally bad.Jun 01 13:14
fewano, its implamented in a propritary frash firmware, its still closedJun 01 13:14
oiaohmBut any OS can use it will be there line.Jun 01 13:15
fewaits like intel with EFI, they just change the naming convention and call their OS a "BIOS"Jun 01 13:15
oiaohmI said from the start of DRM.  Cracking it will not be a long term solution.Jun 01 13:15
oiaohmSooner or latter it was going to move to hardware device protection properly done.Jun 01 13:16
fewawe need to change peoples opinion, make people realize that DRM is anti-competitive, and that it hurts consumersJun 01 13:16
fewaAnd have proper labling of its limitsJun 01 13:16
oiaohmEFI was designed to remove over head of old style bios fireing up hardware for dos.Jun 01 13:17
oiaohmBasically doing lots of things Linux and Windows don't need done.Jun 01 13:17
fewaoiaohm, but it implaments a full OS and just calls it something differnt, while all production uses stuill run the BIOS compatJun 01 13:17
oiaohmEFI can load a old biosJun 01 13:18
oiaohmThen start dos.Jun 01 13:18
fewajust a wasteful layerJun 01 13:18
oiaohmOld bios is a bigger wasteful layer.Jun 01 13:18
fewacoreboot is whats needed, 1 driver for boot and for the real systemJun 01 13:18
oiaohmEFI and coreboot were both implementations to reduce the overhead.Jun 01 13:19
fewahmmJun 01 13:19
fewaEFI seems to do way, way too muchJun 01 13:19
oiaohmEFI still went in the right direction.  But a lot of people say they did not cut enough out.Jun 01 13:20
oiaohmIt happens not all designs end up the best.Jun 01 13:20
fewahmm, but doesn't EFI still have networking stacks and things?Jun 01 13:21
oiaohmEFI was designed before coreboot by the way.Jun 01 13:22
oiaohmFirst supporting OS of EFI was linux in 2000.Jun 01 13:22
oiaohmFirst production supporting OS.Jun 01 13:23
fewayesJun 01 13:23
fewawell i dont know as much as youJun 01 13:23
oiaohmcoreboot started in 1999 looking at what intel was doing with EFI and did better.Jun 01 13:23
oiaohmEvolutions of tech.Jun 01 13:24
oiaohmI love my history of things and it shows fewaJun 01 13:24
fewai was only 10 years old in 1999 :PJun 01 13:24
oiaohmRemember this.   There is no such thing as evil tech.   Tech is a two sided sword.  In the wrong hands its evil.  But the evil comes from the person making it.Jun 01 13:26
oiaohmSo you never saw the world before windows fewa?Jun 01 13:29
fewanopeJun 01 13:29
fewawell, my dad was a macintosh personJun 01 13:29
oiaohmSo missed out on items like c64 mirobees and others.Jun 01 13:29
oiaohmWhen the computer world was fragmented.Jun 01 13:29
oiaohmIn one way you did not have to see great tech die fewa.Jun 01 13:30
fewaits only getting betterJun 01 13:30
fewabut slowed heavily by microsoftJun 01 13:31
oiaohmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_2000  Really has not got better this had over 32 bit colour in 1986Jun 01 13:33
oiaohmTech advances stalled even went backwards for a few years as MS took over fewa.Jun 01 13:33
schestowitzYou mean on desktops?Jun 01 13:34
schestowitzTech progress in all other sreas.Jun 01 13:34
schestowitz*areasJun 01 13:34
schestowitzInternet tooJun 01 13:34
schestowitzWith Netscape for exampleJun 01 13:34
schestowitzThen IE had innovation on the Web frozen tooJun 01 13:35
fewa^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Jun 01 13:35
fewaA stable platform was what users got, but it came at the cost of stagnationJun 01 13:36
DaemonFCNetscape was frankly a pile of crapJun 01 13:36
DaemonFCand they did their fair share of standards mutilationJun 01 13:36
DaemonFClest we forgetJun 01 13:36
oiaohmNetscape worst invention was the blink tag.Jun 01 13:37
fewa^Jun 01 13:37
*DaemonFC beats schestowitz with an innovative <blink> tag and the JSS to CSS convertor that had to be thrown in at the last minute when it was obvious that JSS was not going to e standardizedJun 01 13:38
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 13:38
oiaohmThere was a difference between netscape and MS.  Netscape tried to upstream all there alterations.Jun 01 13:38
oiaohmInto the offical standard.Jun 01 13:38
fewabut VBscript and all that shitJun 01 13:38
DaemonFCNetscape was bullshitJun 01 13:38
DaemonFCespecially with version 4Jun 01 13:38
oiaohmMS did there normal lets disreguard the standard and not try to upsteam anything.Jun 01 13:38
DaemonFCIE got popular because IE 5 was less crap than NetscapeJun 01 13:38
DaemonFCMicrosoft has upstreamed quite a bitJun 01 13:39
DaemonFCnot everything, but then again, neither did NetscapeJun 01 13:39
DaemonFCNetscape only "embraced" open source after they had already lostJun 01 13:39
DaemonFCkind of like SunJun 01 13:39
fewa^only as much as they had to, like every other propritary vendorJun 01 13:39
oiaohmNetscape had embraced w3c.org early one DaemonFC.Jun 01 13:39
oiaohmYes not everything netscape did got approved for standard include.Jun 01 13:40
oiaohmBut that is to be expected.Jun 01 13:40
DaemonFCno they didn'tJun 01 13:40
DaemonFCNetscape was trying to be incompatible with standards from the beginningJun 01 13:41
DaemonFCthen incompatible with standards AND Internet ExplorerJun 01 13:41
schestowitzProof, please,..Jun 01 13:41
DaemonFCthen just too old to even bother with as wellJun 01 13:41
schestowitzThere won't be the MS revisonism hereJun 01 13:41
fewaits the economic fallacy of software, you are only as valuable as switching costsJun 01 13:41
DaemonFCthere's no revisionismJun 01 13:41
fewathats why free software is superiorJun 01 13:41
DaemonFCNetscape 4 was incomplete, slow, buggy, and non-standardJun 01 13:42
schestowitzSlow?Jun 01 13:42
schestowitzWhy was that?Jun 01 13:42
DaemonFClots of reasonsJun 01 13:42
schestowitzDid Microsoft do some API magic?Jun 01 13:42
schestowitzYou're spewing FUD/rubbishJun 01 13:42
schestowitzI end it here.Jun 01 13:42
DaemonFChorrible scripting engineJun 01 13:42
DaemonFCslow customized JavaJun 01 13:42
fewaDaemonFC, you are absolutely right, but realize that Microsoft only made progress on programs when it was critically important to continue their dominence of computingJun 01 13:42
DaemonFCno, their scripting engine was painfulJun 01 13:43
DaemonFCgod awfulJun 01 13:43
DaemonFCthey finally tried to make up their own DHTML dialect that nobody ever usedJun 01 13:43
DaemonFCthat was mildly hilariousJun 01 13:43
DaemonFCand if you disabled scripts, you also lost CSS, what little of CSS it actually supportedJun 01 13:44
DaemonFCbecause it had to convert them to the never-used JSSJun 01 13:44
DaemonFCthen render themJun 01 13:44
DaemonFCoh, and if you resize the browser at all the entire page reloadedJun 01 13:44
DaemonFCbecause it couldn't redrawJun 01 13:45
DaemonFCthat was always funJun 01 13:45
fewathen the bazarr won and mozilla was bornJun 01 13:45
DaemonFCthere was like 4 years between Netscape being unusable and Mozilla releasing a 1.0Jun 01 13:45
DaemonFCIE caught on in the vacuum in betweenJun 01 13:45
fewaand then microsoft stopped doing any work on itJun 01 13:46
DaemonFCyeah, setting the stage for IE to die offJun 01 13:46
DaemonFCall they've managed to do since IE 7 was copy FirefoxJun 01 13:46
DaemonFCpoorlyJun 01 13:46
fewabut also holding onto the microsoft monopoly, and STILL corporate users are stuck onto "web" activeXJun 01 13:47
DaemonFCbut my point was that IE 5 caught on because it sucked much less than Netscape 4Jun 01 13:47
DaemonFCand because it took Mozilla so long to release anything that was suitable for day to day useJun 01 13:47
oiaohmAgain it depended where.  Up until 2000 there were a lot of sites that were IE only or Netscape only.Jun 01 13:48
DaemonFCOpera was shareware and $40 at the timeJun 01 13:48
DaemonFCSafari didn't existJun 01 13:48
DaemonFCso IE was really all you could use on WindowsJun 01 13:49
oiaohmThat made web surfing hell.Jun 01 13:49
oiaohmHaving to swap browsers to get stuff done.Jun 01 13:49
fewaand made Microsoft all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$Jun 01 13:49
fewaits strategy peopleJun 01 13:49
DaemonFCyes, because MS no longer had to do anything to improve IEJun 01 13:49
DaemonFCbecause there was nothing elseJun 01 13:49
fewabecause they killed netscape with all the dirty tricks they couldJun 01 13:49
oiaohmMajor tatical blunder.Jun 01 13:50
DaemonFCNetscape and IE were both badJun 01 13:50
oiaohmDroping work on IE.Jun 01 13:50
fewabut netscape would have improved in a open marketJun 01 13:50
DaemonFCwell, I'd say that by taking out Netscape, Microsoft unintentionally set the stage for an open webJun 01 13:50
fewabut free software was betterJun 01 13:50
fewa^^^your probably rightJun 01 13:50
DaemonFCotherwise the Netscape/IE competition could have dragged onJun 01 13:50
oiaohm2000 intel was also screaming in MS ear to support particuar features so there chip designers could use windows too.Jun 01 13:50
DaemonFCwith both of them inventing web technologies as they wentJun 01 13:50
fewawouldnt have done anything usefulJun 01 13:51
oiaohmAnother big mistake of MS was saying no to intel the hardware marker who had made them.Jun 01 13:51
fewaA monoculture of microsoft, Before any real DRM shit was good stuff then?Jun 01 13:51
DaemonFCFirefox, Safari, and Opera are only well behaved because none of them have the weight to throw around like thatJun 01 13:51
DaemonFCthey're all too small to just invent precisely whatever they want that won't work anywhere elseJun 01 13:52
fewamonoculture actually fights DRM, as only one vendor then supports itJun 01 13:52
oiaohmmonoculture is bad no matter who has it.Jun 01 13:52
fewachange is goodJun 01 13:53
DaemonFCWMDRM actually ships updates not only as part of Windows Media Player upgrades, but within the DRM'd content sometimesJun 01 13:53
DaemonFCso they can revoke compromised versionsJun 01 13:53
DaemonFCit's actually fairly nasty to break it and keep it crackedJun 01 13:54
DaemonFCso like if I have Napster or something, it can push a WMDRM update without telling meJun 01 13:54
fewathats why you use linuxJun 01 13:55
DaemonFCand suddenly my DRM bypass method doesn't work anymoreJun 01 13:55
oiaohmWhat will happen if cracking DRM requires disasmbling monitor DaemonFC.   You can defeat it now.  Future designs will get harder.Jun 01 13:55
DaemonFCI just avoid DRM or strip it out when I can't avoid itJun 01 13:56
fewaanyone know the IP/dns name fo the windows spyware servers?Jun 01 13:56
fewaive asked in many places and never get a real responseJun 01 13:56
DaemonFCso that means that you can't watch the file on LinuxJun 01 13:56
fewaso i can route then to a black holeJun 01 13:56
DaemonFCor that the DRM will affect you even if you use LinuxJun 01 13:56
DaemonFCbecause the file is just sent to the monitorJun 01 13:56
DaemonFCso what you're talking about is cross platform DRMJun 01 13:56
fewaDaemonFC, meh, its only used lamely and generally is even broken on windows, such as bloombergJun 01 13:57
DaemonFCso buckle up, DRM is coming to a Linux near youJun 01 13:57
DaemonFCif what you're saying actually happensJun 01 13:57
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oiaohmI hope by the time the hardware is released there is no real demard for this kind of strict DRM DaemonFCJun 01 13:58
DaemonFCthese companies have always been looking for DRM that was harder to crack and platform independentJun 01 13:58
oiaohmOnly users can make that happen.Jun 01 13:58
DaemonFCwhat are you going to do? Not buy a monitor?Jun 01 13:59
DaemonFCNot watch movies?Jun 01 13:59
fewaoiaohm, i perfectly agreeJun 01 13:59
oiaohmIf there is no market for DRM protected contect because users will not buy it why does monitor need the feature.Jun 01 13:59
fewaheavily DRMed content will meet the same fate as closed source software, it will stagnateJun 01 13:59
DaemonFCanyway, that kind of equipment would make monitors a lot more expensive I'm sureJun 01 13:59
oiaohm20 dollars max DaemonFCJun 01 14:00
DaemonFCno, cause now you need CPU and RAM to decode itJun 01 14:00
DaemonFCand an ethernet portJun 01 14:00
oiaohmYep that is CPU and ram.Jun 01 14:00
oiaohmAnd ethernet controllerJun 01 14:00
DaemonFCthat is going to crank the proce of the monitorJun 01 14:00
fewaDRM is the worse part of fast computersJun 01 14:00
oiaohmAll in a single chip DaemonFCJun 01 14:00
DaemonFC*priceJun 01 14:00
oiaohm20 dollars.Jun 01 14:01
oiaohmUSDJun 01 14:01
DaemonFCyou won't get it that cheapJun 01 14:01
oiaohmNot much.Jun 01 14:01
DaemonFCit takes a lot to decode an HD MPEG-2 stream, and much more than that if it's encrpytedJun 01 14:01
DaemonFCfirst gen HD-DVD players had to use a 3 Ghz Pentium 4 and a gig of RAMJun 01 14:01
oiaohmDepends on the type of cpu.Jun 01 14:02
oiaohmPentiums are complete crap for decoding it.Jun 01 14:02
oiaohmNot enough threads.Jun 01 14:02
DaemonFCshy do you think the players are so huge?Jun 01 14:02
DaemonFCthey essentially are a computerJun 01 14:02
fewaburning excessive wattsJun 01 14:03
fewadoing a useless danceJun 01 14:03
oiaohmYou gpu is far more effective at doing it by the way DaemonFC you only need a 500 mhz cpu with a 250 mhz gpu to play HD-DVDJun 01 14:03
oiaohmFire gen HD-DVD players were using wrong style of chip.Jun 01 14:04
oiaohmfirst genJun 01 14:04
DaemonFCwell, anyone that buys a first gen anything is an idiot with too much moneyJun 01 14:04
DaemonFCbuying a substandard productJun 01 14:05
DaemonFCHD-DVD was using VC-1 though wasn't it?Jun 01 14:05
DaemonFCThat's basically WMV-HDJun 01 14:05
DaemonFCunder a different nameJun 01 14:05
fewaentertainent stuff is always priced way too high until it becomes standard tooJun 01 14:05
oiaohmVC-1 decide in video cards with very little load.Jun 01 14:06
fewamark ups on TVs are astronomicalJun 01 14:06
oiaohmIts simply having enough threads to handle it well.Jun 01 14:06
schestowitzhttp://lwn.net/Articles/333825/Jun 01 14:08
schestowitz'James Morris notes Linus Torvalds's famous "Flame Linus to a crisp!" message wherein he says: "I want to make it clear that DRM is perfectly ok with Linux!".'Jun 01 14:08
schestowitzFrom Ts'oJun 01 14:09
schestowitzIf they went the way of TC and DRM, that could promote HURDJun 01 14:09
schestowitzOr lead to another flame warJun 01 14:09
MinceRwhen did money become more important than users?Jun 01 14:10
MinceRand freedom?Jun 01 14:10
DaemonFChttp://edskes.net/ie8overflowandexpandingboxbugs.htmJun 01 14:11
DaemonFCsince alwaysJun 01 14:11
schestowitzMinceR: ask TedJun 01 14:15
schestowitzHe works for IBMJun 01 14:16
schestowitzIt figuresJun 01 14:16
fewaschestowitz, people would use BSD instead of HURDJun 01 14:16
MinceRor so would the frustrated *bsd fanboys wish.Jun 01 14:16
fewaor they would fork linuxJun 01 14:16
MinceRnow that's more likely.Jun 01 14:16
schestowitzMaybe HURD can be combined with Linux?Jun 01 14:17
schestowitzif so, to what extent?Jun 01 14:17
fewabut with the way linux is developed it may even be a compile time optionJun 01 14:17
fewaschestowitz, HURD and BSD use the linux driver modelJun 01 14:17
schestowitzAnd can GPLv2ed code be made GPLv3? I think notJun 01 14:17
MinceRCONFIG_TAKE_MY_RIGHTS_AWAY?Jun 01 14:18
fewa:PJun 01 14:18
fewaschestowitz, thats why we have to promote GPL3 stuffJun 01 14:18
MinceRschestowitz: not if it's licensed as GPLv2 onlyJun 01 14:18
fewai think linus could get away with a relicence, but noone elseJun 01 14:18
fewamost is GPL2+Jun 01 14:18
MinceRbut it's possible that at least part of the developers would move to the fork and be willing to relicenseJun 01 14:19
fewalinus is main holder on GPL2 onlyJun 01 14:19
fewaand corporate contributersJun 01 14:19
MinceRa rewrite is still possibleJun 01 14:19
fewaa large amount of GPL3 code is the best tool to get it to relicenceJun 01 14:20
MinceRindeedJun 01 14:21
fewaand what linux distros dont have GPL3? android, what else?Jun 01 14:21
MinceRi wouldn't call android a linux distroJun 01 14:24
taconeschestowitz: http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/disinformation-disinfected-pt-2-the-false-dilemma/Jun 01 14:24
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schestowitzIt's better never to forkJun 01 14:33
schestowitzJust more confusionJun 01 14:33
schestowitzPreferable to negotiateJun 01 14:33
oiaohmThere are times when forks are required.Jun 01 14:34
schestowitzAnd knock sense into IBM by showing them backlashJun 01 14:34
oiaohmBut there are lot of times when they are done incorrectly.Jun 01 14:34
schestowitzIf IBM and others see resentment against them due to DRM (like Nokia), they'll hold backJun 01 14:34
schestowitzoiaohm: better to branch maybeJun 01 14:34
schestowitzThink about the goalJun 01 14:34
oiaohmForks are for when negotiation break down.Jun 01 14:35
oiaohmDue to path being too far different.Jun 01 14:35
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oiaohmProblem with distributions unlike most package forks that intime merge they don't have that yet.Jun 01 14:36
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Cappella!helpJun 01 14:36
oiaohmForking and Merging are required cycles for open source to work well schestowitz.Jun 01 14:36
CappellahiJun 01 14:36
oiaohmHi CappellaJun 01 14:36
oiaohmNo bot in here that answers anything.Jun 01 14:36
Cappellahi oiaohm, just like to check, how can i submit news to boycottnovell? :)Jun 01 14:37
Cappellai have written a little something to share with boycotnovellJun 01 14:37
oiaohmThat is schestowitz department  CappellaJun 01 14:37
Cappellaoh ...Jun 01 14:37
fewapastebinJun 01 14:37
Cappellapastebin?Jun 01 14:38
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oiaohmschestowitz: Ping CappellaJun 01 14:38
schestowitzyes, pastebin would be goodJun 01 14:39
schestowitzOr mail me on roy @ schestowitz.comJun 01 14:39
Cappellasorry, how does pastebin works?Jun 01 14:39
schestowitzMail it to me, I'll post itJun 01 14:39
Cappellaohhhh ... ok ok ... email seems more straightforwardJun 01 14:39
Cappellaok thanks.Jun 01 14:39
Cappelladoing that now.Jun 01 14:39
schestowitzoiaohm: I've just mailed rms about the DRM thingJun 01 14:39
fewaschestowitz, which one?Jun 01 14:40
schestowitzTs'oJun 01 14:41
schestowitzMicrosoft still conspires with HollywoodJun 01 14:42
schestowitzJust look at ZuneJun 01 14:42
fewaahh yes thats been aroundJun 01 14:42
schestowitzDRM copy inside the gadget...Jun 01 14:42
fewalol zuneJun 01 14:42
fewazune violates the creative commons licenceJun 01 14:42
schestowitzThey hope Hollywood will help them fight the #1 rivalJun 01 14:42
schestowitz--LinuxJun 01 14:42
schestowitzAs BillG put it, "security as a lockin"Jun 01 14:42
fewahttp://medialoper.com/hot-topics/music/zunes-big-innovation-viral-drm/Jun 01 14:43
schestowitzMS does a lot of viral thingsJun 01 14:43
schestowitzI think of terms of diseasesJun 01 14:43
fewasomeone should put it in the wikipedia articleJun 01 14:43
schestowitzhttp://arebentisch.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/ballmer-media-person-of-the-year-2009/Jun 01 14:43
schestowitz"Sure, the award reflects the great public attention Microsoft received with its viral marketing star Ballmer and the Seinfeld-Gates advertisement campaign."Jun 01 14:43
Cappellaschestowitz: OK, emailed you the scoop, done by me.Jun 01 14:44
fewadevelopers developers developers developers developers developers developersJun 01 14:44
DaemonFCugghJun 01 14:45
DaemonFCClamWin's website is advertising for SpywareJun 01 14:45
DaemonFCthrough Google AdsJun 01 14:45
fewahttp://www.google-watch.org/evilgoo.htmlJun 01 14:45
fewahttp://www.google-watch.org/drugnews.htmlJun 01 14:46
schestowitzCappella: can I use the images, pls?Jun 01 14:46
Cappellayes sure!Jun 01 14:46
Cappellau need the original size? I can DCC send you.Jun 01 14:47
fewaschestowitz, re: bailout http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=postconsumer_prosperityJun 01 14:49
schestowitzCappella: it's OKJun 01 14:52
schestowitzHold on a minute..Jun 01 14:52
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schestowitzOK, done. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/bing-against-google/ (Reader’s Article: Bing Against Google)Jun 01 14:55
Cappellaheh, ok! hope you find it useful.Jun 01 14:56
schestowitzLittle update: "One of the admins of that site (or the one admin) told me that someone from linsux.org claims to be behind the DDoS attacks on us (lasted for almost 2 weeks)."Jun 01 14:59
schestowitzhttp://www.fsdaily.com/Community/Who_are_linsux_org_and_what_do_they_wantJun 01 14:59
schestowitzThe anti-Linux crowd is attacking BNJun 01 14:59
schestowitzhttp://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition/Boycott_Novell_Fight_FUD_with_FunJun 01 15:03
schestowitzSource of the DDoS as wellJun 01 15:04
DaemonFChttp://tech.shantanugoel.com/2009/05/04/ubuntu-904-jaunty-jackalope-upgrade-graphics-problem.htmlJun 01 15:05
fewanvidia works wine with jauntyJun 01 15:05
fewabut they really should switch to the neuvo driver like fedoraJun 01 15:06
schestowitzFreudian slip/Jun 01 15:06
schestowitzWine/fine?Jun 01 15:06
fewayesJun 01 15:07
fewaquite approiate as a freudian slip :PJun 01 15:07
schestowitzWell, eine is fineJun 01 15:07
schestowitz*wineJun 01 15:07
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_Hicham_oiaohm : still here?Jun 01 15:08
oiaohmYep _Hicham_Jun 01 15:10
_Hicham_if 3d is moved partially to the monitor, we can have really great performanceJun 01 15:10
fewaWHAT?Jun 01 15:11
DaemonFC"How about taking a good look at the self-citing, highly skitzophrenic bullshit dispenser you praise so highly? Shitzforwitz has that golden touch of turning things around in the most horrible of ways. Service pack breaks third-party ODF support? Third party? No shit. Perhaps if the Sun devs working on the importer would have closely worked to fix the issue, it wouldn't be such a big deal."Jun 01 15:11
DaemonFChttp://linsux.org/index.php/topic,1096.msg10500.html#msg10500Jun 01 15:11
oiaohmIts a way of reducing transfers _Hicham_Jun 01 15:12
DaemonFCMicrosoft does hand out tech previews of service packsJun 01 15:12
DaemonFCSun probably had a full 2 months or more to fix thatJun 01 15:13
DaemonFCbut then, it's SunJun 01 15:13
_Hicham_it is OracleJun 01 15:13
DaemonFCplehJun 01 15:13
fewa<_Hicham_> if 3d is moved partially to the monitor, we can have really great performanceJun 01 15:13
fewaexplainJun 01 15:13
MinceRsun.com still says they're functioning independentlyJun 01 15:13
DaemonFCyeah, cause upper management sold the company in a minight backalley fire saleJun 01 15:14
fewawhy does it make a shits of difference weather the hardware is in a video card or the video card is strapped to a lcd display?Jun 01 15:14
DaemonFCand the shareholders can still vote to reverse itJun 01 15:14
twitter"DaemonFC: no, I can't just send an odt file to someone and expect them to download another office suite to open it"  LOL, instead you send them a docx and expect them to change buy a whole OS and Office program that cost close to $800.Jun 01 15:14
DaemonFCnoJun 01 15:14
DaemonFCPerson A sends me a docx, I edit it, plain OpenOffice can only save it to odtJun 01 15:15
_Hicham_fewa : it is not that the video card is placed in an lcd displayJun 01 15:15
DaemonFCthis is a problem since they probably want a docx backJun 01 15:15
DaemonFCexample 2Jun 01 15:15
fewa_Hicham_, what cant DVI do?Jun 01 15:15
_Hicham_as oiaohm said, it is a way of reducing transfers between video card and the monitorJun 01 15:15
DaemonFCSome organizations only accept Microsoft formatsJun 01 15:15
DaemonFCscratch thatJun 01 15:15
DaemonFCMOST only accept Microsoft formatsJun 01 15:16
fewa_Hicham_, are you just trying to get in DRM?Jun 01 15:16
_Hicham_fewa : noJun 01 15:16
fewai thought DVI was pretty good at thatJun 01 15:16
oiaohmIts part of what is being done with hdmi  1.4 http://www.design-reuse.com/news/20774/hdmi-specification-version-1-4.htmlJun 01 15:16
fewait sure is clear on my passive screenJun 01 15:16
_Hicham_but the DRM problem is still hereJun 01 15:16
oiaohmDVI is only a display protocal fewaJun 01 15:17
DaemonFCso in the end it's less trouble to just get something that writes to docx than to convince a bajillon people to download some 200 megabyte setup file and install OpenOfficeJun 01 15:17
DaemonFCjust to accomodate meJun 01 15:17
oiaohmDoes not require the monitor to be smart.Jun 01 15:17
_Hicham_DaemonFC : you are repeating the same story since 5 hoursJun 01 15:17
fewathats why they are moving it to the monitor, because then they can reduce wholly inefficient DRM protocols by casting it togetherJun 01 15:17
DaemonFCwell, maybe if twathead would stop provoking meJun 01 15:18
oiaohmAnd the result is the same we write a docx in 6 months time you will complain you cannot open it DaemonFCJun 01 15:18
DaemonFCjust a thoughtJun 01 15:18
oiaohmWe are better to give people like you pdf files.Jun 01 15:18
oiaohmAnd you lose you means to edit.Jun 01 15:18
oiaohmThat way you cannot complain about documents that don't open.Jun 01 15:18
_Hicham_you can edit pdfs in OpenOffice?Jun 01 15:18
_Hicham_sureJun 01 15:18
oiaohmNot perfectly.Jun 01 15:18
_Hicham_most of themJun 01 15:19
oiaohmIf you embed a odf doc in the pdf you can.Jun 01 15:19
fewareally? i just got some shitty old program to be able to add to pdfJun 01 15:19
fewaotherwise you cant change shitJun 01 15:19
_Hicham_not necessarily oiaohmJun 01 15:19
DaemonFCeither way, giving odf or pdf just creates problemsJun 01 15:19
oiaohmIf you want perfect editing _Hicham_Jun 01 15:19
DaemonFCcause then no matter what, they have a file that will be difficult to editJun 01 15:19
_Hicham_fewa : there pdf extension for open officeJun 01 15:19
oiaohmpdf with embed odf you are giving them both.Jun 01 15:20
DaemonFCwithout getting hundreds of megs of additional softwareJun 01 15:20
oiaohmIn 1 file DaemonFCJun 01 15:20
fewaDaemonFC, what problems? they can just download openoffice.org if they have toJun 01 15:20
oiaohmIf they have too poor of a tool to edit it there end it there problem DaemonFCJun 01 15:20
_Hicham_or he can save it in doc formatJun 01 15:20
DaemonFCI'm not going to be a Nazi and tell someone to download some incredibly huge programs just to suit meJun 01 15:20
DaemonFCit's not an argument worth fightingJun 01 15:20
MinceRDaemonFC: if you left the channel, nobody would "provoke" you anymore.Jun 01 15:20
fewaDaemonFC, im not going to be a nazi and support a inferior closed formatJun 01 15:20
MinceRhint hintJun 01 15:20
oiaohmand pdf + Odf hybred is approved for long term archiving.Jun 01 15:21
oiaohmSo I don't have to have a double up of file my end.Jun 01 15:21
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DaemonFCit's a lot easier to just edit the docx and send it back to themJun 01 15:21
oiaohmget back asking for docx support when it approved for long term archiving.Jun 01 15:21
_Hicham_DaemonFC loves to be fucked by MicrosoftJun 01 15:21
fewa^Jun 01 15:21
oiaohmUntil then its a waste of time and space for me DaemonFCJun 01 15:21
DaemonFCno, odf is no good if they don't accept itJun 01 15:22
oiaohmThe line is not movable any company that does a archiving assessment is not going to ever send you a docx until it approvable.Jun 01 15:22
oiaohmThey accept PDF.Jun 01 15:22
oiaohmIts a archive format.Jun 01 15:22
DaemonFCthey're not going to go changing their policy because I won't send them the files they useJun 01 15:22
fewaits a universal formatJun 01 15:23
oiaohmThey accept .doc that is partly approved for arcivinal.Jun 01 15:23
_Hicham_DaemonFC is a universal trollJun 01 15:23
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fewaDaemonFC needs to leaveJun 01 15:23
oiaohmNote .docx is not even partly approved for arcivial.Jun 01 15:23
DaemonFChttp://cms.bsu.edu/About/AdministrativeOffices/ComputerStore/Products/Software/MicrosoftSoftware.aspxJun 01 15:23
oiaohmSo its a waste of time producing it.Jun 01 15:24
fewaDaemonFC is arguing a straw manJun 01 15:24
oiaohmPeople with 2003 cannot open it either.Jun 01 15:24
oiaohmThat makes up most of the market of users by the way.Jun 01 15:24
DaemonFCthey use docxJun 01 15:24
DaemonFCI can either use docx or docxJun 01 15:24
DaemonFCor even docxJun 01 15:24
oiaohm2007 docx cannot open in 2003.Jun 01 15:24
DaemonFCso long as I use docxJun 01 15:24
oiaohmCorrectly.Jun 01 15:24
oiaohmMS screwed the format.Jun 01 15:25
fewanot even microsoft users use docxJun 01 15:25
DaemonFCwell, you know, if they say send docx, I send docxJun 01 15:25
fewaDaemonFC, where is your argumentJun 01 15:25
oiaohmAnd I have none out of 500 companies that will touch with a 10 foot barge pole.Jun 01 15:26
MinceRhe has noneJun 01 15:26
_Hicham_I don't see where is the problemJun 01 15:26
_Hicham_use MS OfficeJun 01 15:26
oiaohmTo be correct there email server send them back with error message DaemonFCJun 01 15:26
_Hicham_who is stopping u Mr DaemonFC?Jun 01 15:26
oiaohmdocx does not get past the door because its not archivable.Jun 01 15:26
oiaohmYell at people to support stuff will not happeen DaemonFCJun 01 15:27
oiaohmFix the issues then it will get supported.Jun 01 15:27
oiaohmO that is right you are not MS so you cannot fix the issues DaemonFCJun 01 15:27
DaemonFCmy argument is that odf is unacceptableJun 01 15:27
DaemonFCbecause they won't take itJun 01 15:27
fewaDaemonFC, who?Jun 01 15:28
oiaohmTo late DaemonFCJun 01 15:28
oiaohmEvery major achive storage demards it.Jun 01 15:28
DaemonFCany office on campusJun 01 15:28
DaemonFCodf is useless thereJun 01 15:28
oiaohmSo you have a back water.Jun 01 15:28
DaemonFCnoJun 01 15:28
oiaohmYes you do.Jun 01 15:28
fewaDaemonFC, you doJun 01 15:28
DaemonFCno university in the state accepts non-MS formatsJun 01 15:29
oiaohmIF they accept .docx its a backwaterJun 01 15:29
DaemonFCnot even Rose HUlmanJun 01 15:29
oiaohmOf incompetnet staff.Jun 01 15:29
oiaohmAny true assement of the archival state of ooxml would tell you that is cannot be used.Jun 01 15:29
DaemonFCRose Hulman teaches some Red Hat classes I thinkJun 01 15:29
DaemonFCNovell stuff tooJun 01 15:30
oiaohmThat does not matter.Jun 01 15:30
neighborleeDaemonFC, mind control tends to have that affect..only through time and education does it 'wear off' :)Jun 01 15:30
oiaohmIf you don't run long term storage correctly you suffer for it sooner or later DaemonFCJun 01 15:30
DaemonFCI don't really care what happens to the format 5-10 years from nowJun 01 15:30
oiaohmRemember I said .doc not .docx was partly approved.Jun 01 15:30
DaemonFCit works nowJun 01 15:30
oiaohmSo you are not a business that will last DaemonFCJun 01 15:31
fewaDaemonFC, then live in your little locked in world, noones stopping youJun 01 15:31
oiaohmFor tax reasons you have to keep records longer than 5 years.Jun 01 15:31
oiaohmFor business reasons too.Jun 01 15:31
DaemonFCyeah, I just e-file itJun 01 15:31
oiaohmYou cannot afford them not accessable.Jun 01 15:31
DaemonFCthe IRS has copies of all of thatJun 01 15:31
oiaohmContracts deals...?Jun 01 15:32
oiaohmSo if someone disputes you can produce the paper work.Jun 01 15:32
oiaohmWithout major headaches.Jun 01 15:32
DaemonFCyeah, hard copiesJun 01 15:32
oiaohmYou know the one problem with hard copies.Jun 01 15:32
oiaohmYou cannot search massive numbers of them quicky.Jun 01 15:32
DaemonFCthat they don't disappear cause the hard drive crashed or the disc won't read?Jun 01 15:32
DaemonFCclever thatJun 01 15:33
oiaohmThat is part of archive control to prevent that DaemonFCJun 01 15:33
fewaobvious troll is obviousJun 01 15:33
DaemonFCbesides, Office 2010 will no doubt convert your Office 2007 files the first time you open and save themJun 01 15:33
oiaohmLOL.Jun 01 15:34
oiaohmDid that happen correctly with 2003 to 2007 or 2000 to 2003 for all documents.Jun 01 15:34
DaemonFCI have documents that started out in Office XP actuallyJun 01 15:34
oiaohmTo be correct 2003 to 2007 you end up using openoffice to do some of the conversions.Jun 01 15:35
DaemonFChell, I think I have some that go back to Office 95Jun 01 15:35
_Hicham_as if DaemonFC is a big writerJun 01 15:35
oiaohmI guess you are not talking in the 10 000 documents rage.Jun 01 15:35
_Hicham_how many documents do u have?Jun 01 15:35
_Hicham_1?Jun 01 15:35
oiaohmLet alone 200 000Jun 01 15:35
DaemonFCwell, I do back them upJun 01 15:36
oiaohmBiggest I have is a law firm that are in the many millions.Jun 01 15:36
oiaohmSo small percentage of conversion error adds up to lots of files.Jun 01 15:36
oiaohmPrevent is better than cure with these messes.Jun 01 15:37
oiaohmOOXML is not prevent.Jun 01 15:37
DaemonFCand exactly how many formats did we go through with StarOffice before ODF?Jun 01 15:37
DaemonFCquit a number of themJun 01 15:37
oiaohmAnd everyone opens perfectly today.Jun 01 15:37
oiaohmNo much up due to wrong printers or anything else.Jun 01 15:37
DaemonFCand what happens to ODF documents when the next version of ODF is out?Jun 01 15:37
oiaohmNew opens older no issues at all.Jun 01 15:38
DaemonFCso same thing thenJun 01 15:38
oiaohmThat is the way the internals of Starwriter were designed and maintained.Jun 01 15:38
oiaohmMS office on the other hand.Jun 01 15:38
DaemonFCStarOffice has always been a 3rd world knockoffJun 01 15:38
oiaohmHas hardware dependancies and other bad things in there docs.Jun 01 15:38
oiaohmSo making them break in conversion.Jun 01 15:39
DaemonFCat least it isn't sllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww like it used to beJun 01 15:39
oiaohmThey kept that evil in ooxml.Jun 01 15:39
oiaohmooxml is bad design.Jun 01 15:39
oiaohmHeck blender that use raw memory dumps to save does a better job than MS with backwards compadiblity.Jun 01 15:39
DaemonFCwell, giving someone ODF is like trying to pay in Monopoly moneyJun 01 15:40
DaemonFCif nobody takes it, what good is it?Jun 01 15:40
fewaDaemonFC has been trolling all day people should start ignoring himJun 01 15:40
oiaohmProblem here lot of parties do take ODF.Jun 01 15:40
oiaohmMore take PDF by the way.Jun 01 15:40
neighborleeschestowitz, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7381954#post7381954 < as soon as I pushed back after being attacked for using word FUD when directHEX was not..they immediately changed the subject: " We have been most patient with you and I find you posting style aggressive and inappropriate. " < by: bodhi.zazenJun 01 15:40
oiaohmThan any other format.Jun 01 15:40
DaemonFCOriginally Posted by bodhi.zazenJun 01 15:41
DaemonFCTo get this thread back on track, we are concerned not with your personal beliefs or the use of a specific word such as "FUD". We are concerned that the tone of your posts is insulting / derogatory to others, including staff, and that your are intolerant of the choices of others, in this case the decision of others to use Mono.Jun 01 15:41
DaemonFCYou are free to express your opinions so long as you do not do so in a way which is insulting to others.Jun 01 15:41
DaemonFCWe are also asking you to respect the choices of others, even if you personally disagree with them.Jun 01 15:41
DaemonFCWe would like you to learn from this conversation and revise your posting style.Jun 01 15:41
DaemonFC"Originally Posted by bodhi.zazen"Jun 01 15:41
DaemonFCthere's your problemJun 01 15:41
neighborleeDaemonFC, yes, so ??Jun 01 15:41
oiaohmMS is not the most used format out there.  PDF is.   PDF + ODF in 1 file is supported by the PDF standard to improve means to edit document.Jun 01 15:41
neighborleeDaemonFC, wrongJun 01 15:41
DaemonFCthat guy is a dickheadJun 01 15:41
DaemonFCeven by Ooga Booga standardsJun 01 15:41
neighborleehmJun 01 15:42
DaemonFCsearch his postsJun 01 15:42
DaemonFChe's a smarmy, condescending pile of shitJun 01 15:42
oiaohmThere is not a goverment national archive anywhere on earth that accepts .docx without converting it to either .pdf or odf for long term storage.Jun 01 15:42
neighborleeDaemonFC, well its a problem of hypocrisy..im called out for using FUD word, where directHEX is not..Jun 01 15:43
DaemonFCMassachusetts says docx is acceptable for archivesJun 01 15:43
oiaohmIt is converted once it enters the storage there DaemonFCJun 01 15:43
neighborleeDaemonFC, so we now have proof positive, that ubuntu isn't about fairness and the great OSS way,but about apparantly protecting non OSS standards.Jun 01 15:43
DaemonFCI've been saying that all alongJun 01 15:44
neighborleewell we all haveJun 01 15:44
neighborleebut this is direct proofJun 01 15:44
DaemonFCBut if you insult Ubuntu, people act like you ran over Jesus, threw it in reverse, and got their mother tooJun 01 15:44
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 15:44
neighborleequite.Jun 01 15:44
schestowitzneighborlee: they make Ubuntu a lost causeJun 01 15:44
schestowitzOnce they promote all sort of pro-Mono people it's lostJun 01 15:44
neighborleeschestowitz, sadly, I tend to agree.Jun 01 15:44
schestowitzIt means that the Microsoft Boys take over Ubuntu's directionJun 01 15:45
schestowitzKind of like ISO and OSIJun 01 15:45
fewaECMAJun 01 15:46
DaemonFCUbuntu has been heading in a bad direction since 7.04Jun 01 15:46
schestowitzUse MandrivaJun 01 15:46
DaemonFCwhen they basically pissed all over the idea of open formats and driversJun 01 15:47
schestowitzThey'll start worring about Ubuntu's direction when people turn to other distrosJun 01 15:47
schestowitzThen, hopefully, they'll be less vainJun 01 15:47
neighborleefewa, lolJun 01 15:47
EruaranGoogle Wave looks pretty goodJun 01 15:47
DaemonFCthey used to make you at least make an effort and discover that maybe it wasn't a great idea to slap the nonfree shit in thereJun 01 15:47
schestowitzIf people choose Ubuntu and then go out of their way to remove Mono, it sends the wrong signal Jun 01 15:47
Eruaransorry to butt inJun 01 15:47
schestowitzLike someone buying a Windows PC just to wipe WindowsJun 01 15:47
DaemonFCI mean, you still had a choice, which is good, but now it doesn't even explain the differenceJun 01 15:47
schestowitzInstead buy a Linux machineJun 01 15:47
fewaEruaran, yeah i was just looking at it today, dont know what i think yetJun 01 15:47
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Eruaran(I've just been watching the demo)Jun 01 15:47
neighborleeschestowitz, mandriva is little better..very little better..at least on the gnome side,,though yes, at least their 'default' offered ISO is kde, which has no apparant interest in monoJun 01 15:47
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Eruaranfewa: I like that its openJun 01 15:48
schestowitzLikewise, use a distro that is not so open to MononucleosisJun 01 15:48
DaemonFCwell, every GNOME version of every major distro has MonoJun 01 15:48
DaemonFCeven DebianJun 01 15:48
neighborleeschestowitz, I just wish they had a  64bit iso for livecd making things much easier in general...last I checked they did not anyway HMMMJun 01 15:48
fewaEruaran, its also based on XMPP i believeJun 01 15:48
schestowitzneighborlee: KDE it is the.Jun 01 15:48
schestowitz*thenJun 01 15:48
schestowitzOr use BlagJun 01 15:49
neighborleeyesJun 01 15:49
DaemonFCagreed, I asked why they didn't have a 64-bit One CD, and they said it's cause they already support more versions of it than they want toJun 01 15:49
neighborleeschestowitz, which uses fedora, which I consider less stableJun 01 15:49
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DaemonFCKDE version and GNOME version and 3 languages per ISOJun 01 15:49
DaemonFCouchJun 01 15:49
neighborleeschestowitz, so I think,,we are effectively left with mandriva.Jun 01 15:49
Eruaranfewa: It looks quite promising... the fact that its open strengthens it... It could be the end of traditional email and collaboration toolsJun 01 15:49
fewadebian peopleJun 01 15:49
neighborleeschestowitz, not that I feel forced..I did always love their urpm* tools ;))Jun 01 15:49
fewawhy isnt debian mentioned?Jun 01 15:49
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DaemonFCDebian has just never felt right on a desktopJun 01 15:50
DaemonFCat least if you use the release versionJun 01 15:50
neighborleeI feel debian is too low level..their installer creates wayyyyy too much post -workJun 01 15:50
DaemonFCit gets several years old and nothing is updatedJun 01 15:50
DaemonFCexcept with security and major bug fixesJun 01 15:50
fewathey need a ubuntu-scope metapackageJun 01 15:51
neighborleeexaxctlyJun 01 15:51
DaemonFCthey use metasJun 01 15:51
neighborleeexactlyJun 01 15:51
DaemonFCbut that just makes more problemsJun 01 15:51
DaemonFCthe way they flag themJun 01 15:51
fewabut ubuntu actually lacks alot of debian standard distrobutionJun 01 15:51
fewain CLI tooldsJun 01 15:51
DaemonFClike say I go to get rid of swfdec, I have to unmark all dependencies of the gnome metapackage or else it will orphan my entire desktopJun 01 15:52
DaemonFCjus ttrying to pry that one bit outJun 01 15:52
fewayou get the same thing in ubuntuJun 01 15:52
DaemonFCnoJun 01 15:52
fewayeah if you use the gnome packageJun 01 15:52
fewaand same shit with ubuntu-desktop packageJun 01 15:52
DaemonFCUbuntu's layout at least doesn't include stupid shit like that as part of the desktopJun 01 15:52
DaemonFCI mean stuff everyone will obviously want rid ofJun 01 15:53
fewaexcept that with ubuntu the system upgrade reset all deb pinning so you have to install all the changes in ubuntu-desktopJun 01 15:53
DaemonFCmetas are evilJun 01 15:53
fewametas are very nice for certain groups of peopleJun 01 15:53
DaemonFCYum at least understands what a group isJun 01 15:54
DaemonFCwithout the horrible dependency crapJun 01 15:54
DaemonFCI really just never did like Apt all that muchJun 01 15:54
DaemonFCit's not as smart as Yum is, they worked around a lot of Apts problems with things like metapackagesJun 01 15:55
fewaim thinking of switching to grandcentral, i was using youmail but they are so bastardly that they now want to change for transcriptiongJun 01 15:55
fewabut i dont like giving google my phone callsJun 01 15:55
DaemonFC"We would like you to learn from this conversation and revise your posting style."Jun 01 15:56
DaemonFCI'd like to put my foot up his ass and see if he revises his posting styleJun 01 15:56
DaemonFC--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Jun 01 15:57
DaemonFC"FUD" stands for "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt." Those you oppose have been very clear about licensing issues and more with regards to Mono. While you may be personally uncomfortable, your responses and comments have had no basis in logic or facts.Jun 01 15:57
DaemonFCIf anyone is spreading FUD, it is you.Jun 01 15:57
DaemonFCNo apology is required nor is one forthcoming.Jun 01 15:57
DaemonFCYou are being rude, pushy, arrogant, and violating the spirit of our code of conduct repeatedly if not the actual letter. I strongly suggest you drop this now and move on.Jun 01 15:57
DaemonFCposted by Matthew, the asshole in chargeJun 01 15:57
DaemonFCthe almighty poobah of assholesJun 01 15:58
DaemonFC"CoC!!!! CoC!!!! OMGZZZZZZ!!!!!!1111111111"Jun 01 15:58
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 15:58
schestowitzStill got that "almighty" account?Jun 01 15:59
DaemonFChmmm, you got all of themJun 01 15:59
schestowitzOf the ACPI thing?Jun 01 15:59
DaemonFCeven bodhi.zazenJun 01 15:59
DaemonFCniceJun 01 15:59
DaemonFCit's people like that that make me nauseated every time someone mentions Ooga BoogaJun 01 16:00
DaemonFCinstead of being able to discuss things like adults, they "enshrine" (their word) the Code of ConductJun 01 16:01
DaemonFCand if you violate it, they will chide youJun 01 16:01
DaemonFC:PJun 01 16:01
DaemonFCschestowitz: Uhhm, it's bannedJun 01 16:01
DaemonFCburnt beans, day old decafJun 01 16:01
DaemonFCw00t!Jun 01 16:01
DaemonFCfuckersJun 01 16:02
zacharymI'm a fucker?Jun 01 16:02
DaemonFC?Jun 01 16:02
schestowitznopeJun 01 16:02
zacharymokJun 01 16:02
schestowitzsome adimnsJun 01 16:02
schestowitzfoxconn apologistsJun 01 16:02
zacharymYou know who are fuckers?Jun 01 16:03
zacharymNovellJun 01 16:03
DaemonFCno, I meant the 40 year old virgins and 19 year olds that live in their mothers attic that "administer" those forumsJun 01 16:03
DaemonFCat least Novell has forums that aren't like.....Ooga BoogasJun 01 16:04
taconeit strikes me that mozilla didn't commented the .net plugin thing.Jun 01 16:04
taconeit may open the door to many security vulnerabilitiesJun 01 16:04
taconeit's basically something that allows remote computer access.Jun 01 16:04
DaemonFCactually, I think Ooga Booga is an extension of Something AwfulJun 01 16:05
DaemonFCI'd be pissed if I was themJun 01 16:05
DaemonFCI'd be getting ready to sue someoneJun 01 16:05
DaemonFCwho knows? maybe they will?Jun 01 16:06
DaemonFCmaybe they're in bed with Microsoft hence the silence?Jun 01 16:06
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jun 01 16:06
DaemonFCwe'll find out one way or anotherJun 01 16:06
DaemonFC"Ubuntu and the open source movement is about tolerance and freedom. This includes the freedom to choose what operating system and what applications we wish to run on our computers."Jun 01 16:07
DaemonFCI think Linspire also said thatJun 01 16:07
DaemonFCand possibly HitlerJun 01 16:08
MinceRif hitler said something, it surely must be evilJun 01 16:08
MinceRhe used consonants, therefore consonants are evilJun 01 16:08
MinceRhe used vowels, therefore vowels are evilJun 01 16:09
DaemonFCdamn youJun 01 16:09
MinceRand if something was ever said about ubuntu, it can only mean illJun 01 16:09
schestowitzYou're pushing the envelope here on Godwin's LawJun 01 16:10
MinceRaren't you just a little bit narrow-minded, DaemonFC?Jun 01 16:10
DaemonFCnot reallyJun 01 16:10
DaemonFCOoga Booga has been deteriorating for the last couple of yearsJun 01 16:10
DaemonFCthis was hardly surprisingJun 01 16:11
MinceRnot really "a little bit", rightJun 01 16:11
*oiaohm has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))Jun 01 16:13
schestowitzGoogle pulls an MS: Jun 01 16:13
schestowitzLinux market share growing, growing, growingJun 01 16:13
schestowitzI looked into where Net Applications gets data. They say “We use a unique methodology for collecting this data. We collect data from the browsers of site visitors to our exclusive on-demand network of live stats customers. The data is compiled from approximately 160 million visitors per month.”Jun 01 16:13
schestowitzThat’s certainly a lot of data, although it would be nice to know who the “exclusive on-demand network” participants are. For instance, if Microsoft’s TechNet web site is included (which may or may not be the case, but a Microsoft logo is part of a rotating list of logos displayed) then you would expect it is likely visitors to that site tend towards using Microsoft operating systems.Jun 01 16:13
schestowitzhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/25361/1143/Jun 01 16:13
DaemonFCUbuntu's primary defense has been "We just package this shit" for a while nowJun 01 16:13
DaemonFCevery time they're criticized for leeching or for not coming up with anything newJun 01 16:14
DaemonFCtheir defense with Mono is that all the cool kids are doing itJun 01 16:14
schestowitzGoogle uses agencies to promote its wares... http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25363/1054/Jun 01 16:14
schestowitzDaemonFC: cool or cold-heated?Jun 01 16:15
schestowitz*hearted (like MS)Jun 01 16:15
MinceRDaemonFC: is that the same as your defense for vista?Jun 01 16:15
DaemonFCI mean, their whole distribution is pretty flaky, their developers have no idea how a lot of things even workJun 01 16:15
DaemonFCthey have this magical thinking this cargo cult mentalityJun 01 16:15
schestowitzMinceR: he says things to provokeJun 01 16:15
schestowitzHe's a poser.Jun 01 16:15
DaemonFCof they'll just keep backporting other peoples patchesJun 01 16:15
DaemonFCtil it worksJun 01 16:15
MinceRno, we call that a "troll"Jun 01 16:15
schestowitzIf saying "OOXML if good" will get people all noisy, he'd do itJun 01 16:15
schestowitzMinceR: yesJun 01 16:15
MinceRhe's either an idiot or he pretends to be oneJun 01 16:15
schestowitzHe's not an idiotJun 01 16:16
schestowitzA troublemakerJun 01 16:16
fewaschestowitz, yeah those linux number have always been way offJun 01 16:16
DaemonFCI mean shit, I could maintain a kernel better than any of themJun 01 16:16
MinceRa trollJun 01 16:16
DaemonFCand haveJun 01 16:16
EruaranWave is going to be openJun 01 16:16
schestowitzfewa: I'll do another article about itJun 01 16:16
fewaeven Microsoft's numbers have linux higherJun 01 16:16
schestowitzWe lately found out MS is an inveestorJun 01 16:16
EruaranAnyone can implement their own Wave platformJun 01 16:16
schestowitzAnd NetApps has Microsoft employeesJun 01 16:16
fewahttp://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_AppleJun 01 16:16
schestowitzSo it's getting a lot warmerJun 01 16:16
fewawikipedia people dont like it when you take out statisticsJun 01 16:17
DaemonFC3 months before Jaunty shipped, I and a lot of other people complained about their buggy sound systemJun 01 16:17
fewaeven if Microsoft's CoIed data is less to their advantageJun 01 16:17
DaemonFCand later versions of the kernel and pulseaudio did fix itJun 01 16:17
DaemonFCbut they decided it was better to ship one that was broken than hold back the launch a week or twoJun 01 16:17
EruaranThis means you can have Google Wave, Acme Wave, Ubuntu Wave, BN Wave... Even Microsoft Wave (rofl)...Jun 01 16:18
fewaDaemonFC, stop fucking trolling this channelJun 01 16:18
DaemonFCfixing Ubuntu now requires compiling, packaging, and maintaining about a dozen packages yourselfJun 01 16:19
taconewell jaunty is a pretty stable releaseJun 01 16:19
DaemonFCincluding the kernelJun 01 16:19
DaemonFCotherwise the sound won't work rightJun 01 16:19
taconebut included quite a few knownly broken thingsJun 01 16:19
DaemonFCthere's gonna be static and popping and clickingJun 01 16:19
taconeas intel drivers for example.Jun 01 16:19
DaemonFCall kinds of distortionsJun 01 16:19
taconetry jaunty on a netbook. urgghh.Jun 01 16:19
DaemonFCerror messagesaJun 01 16:19
DaemonFCbad mixingJun 01 16:19
EruaranYou mean Ubuntu isn't perfect ? Shock ! Horror !Jun 01 16:19
MinceRat least vista is!Jun 01 16:20
taconeis incredibile. they should have considered releasing a .1 release, at leastJun 01 16:20
MinceRoh, waitJun 01 16:20
DaemonFCno, I mean you're hard pressed to find anything in Ubuntu that works quite rightJun 01 16:20
Eruaranlol MinceRJun 01 16:20
DaemonFCand you can't even build GNOME and have it work in UbuntuJun 01 16:20
taconenetbook remix uses 3d. but intel drivers suck. that a ugly coincidenceJun 01 16:20
DaemonFCwithout patching the shit out of itJun 01 16:20
EruaranOur customers are happyJun 01 16:20
schestowitzfewa: I'll quote you laterJun 01 16:20
DaemonFCUbuntu stopped being worth the time trouble and hassle a while ago, but Jaunty is their worst one yet, totally untenableJun 01 16:21
fewatacone, agreed intel integrated graphics really really suckJun 01 16:21
schestowitzDaemonFC: what nonsenseJun 01 16:21
schestowitzEnough with FUDJun 01 16:21
DaemonFCwhat FUD?Jun 01 16:21
schestowitzPeople can move for free to the latest versionJun 01 16:21
Eruaranlol that is some really lame trollingJun 01 16:21
schestowitzStop with the whole DIY patch FUDJun 01 16:21
DaemonFCyou try getting the sound to work right on an Intel chipsetJun 01 16:21
DaemonFCsomething any other distro does fineJun 01 16:22
schestowitzWe already have Novellsoft's Susan Hauser filnging that cr*Jun 01 16:22
DaemonFCUbuntu has ben totally hosedJun 01 16:22
fewaDaemonFC, get outJun 01 16:22
schestowitzClassic redmond toxic wasteJun 01 16:22
fewayouve been trolling all day in here, nothing even sensibleJun 01 16:22
schestowitzDaemonFC: take your pillsJun 01 16:23
schestowitzOr come back when you're saneJun 01 16:23
DaemonFCI should have recorded an example of its disatortionsJun 01 16:23
DaemonFCbefore I formatted it off the diskJun 01 16:23
taconewhich pill ? the red or blue one ?Jun 01 16:23
DaemonFC*distortionsJun 01 16:23
schestowitzThe ones you say you buy at Wal-MartJun 01 16:23
DaemonFCI've just had it with trying to put Ubuntu back togetherJun 01 16:23
DaemonFCthey ship it broken, they employ moronsJun 01 16:24
MinceRschestowitz: you can stop him.Jun 01 16:24
DaemonFCit's just, aggghJun 01 16:24
fewa<DaemonFC> Linux will be useless when all operating systems have to run on top of a hypervisorJun 01 16:24
fewa<DaemonFC> PS3 proves thisJun 01 16:24
fewa<DaemonFC> eventually there will be DRM no matter what OS you useJun 01 16:24
fewa<twitter> Free software is like a wife.  You own it, it owns you and you will know it better than yourself.  It never lets you down.Jun 01 16:24
fewa<twitter> my hypervisor will be free :-DJun 01 16:24
fewa<DaemonFC> eventually, the hypservisor could refuse Linux the ability to play movies or copy discsJun 01 16:24
fewajust FUDJun 01 16:24
fewaand you are not even talking to anyoneJun 01 16:24
DaemonFCthat's already what Sony has doneJun 01 16:24
DaemonFCwith theirsJun 01 16:24
schestowitzUbuntu works fineJun 01 16:24
schestowitzJust don't try to break itJun 01 16:25
schestowitzroy@baine:~$ uptimeJun 01 16:25
schestowitz 16:05:34 up 126 days,  5:06,  2 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00Jun 01 16:25
schestowitzroy@baine:~$ uname -aJun 01 16:25
schestowitzLinux baine 2.6.20-16-generic #2 SMP Tue Feb 12 05:41:34 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/LinuxJun 01 16:25
schestowitzroy@baine:~$         Jun 01 16:25
DaemonFCno, Ubuntu does not work fineJun 01 16:25
DaemonFCon my system or about a few million others with this chipsetJun 01 16:25
DaemonFCand it's bugs that they willfully ignoredJun 01 16:25
schestowitzBuy a computer that runs LinuxJun 01 16:26
DaemonFCthey even said that they set Pulseaudio to expose the bugs in the sound driverJun 01 16:26
schestowitzNot Windows-oriented POSJun 01 16:26
DaemonFCthen shipped it that wayJun 01 16:26
neighborleeDaemonFC, if only ps3 used less power..my wii owns that aspect of things  quite admireably...18w even at peak power, compared top 180'ishJun 01 16:26
DaemonFCthe funny part is a lot of systems shipped with Ubuntu will have the same problemsJun 01 16:26
DaemonFCwhen people upgrade to JauntyJun 01 16:26
schestowitzYou're just wasting people's time with this trollingJun 01 16:26
fewajust this talk week i installed ubuntu on two differnt new systems. wifi, keyboard shortcuts, everything *just worked*Jun 01 16:26
fewait was jauntyJun 01 16:26
DaemonFCgood for you, must not have an Intel ICH9Jun 01 16:26
DaemonFCwowJun 01 16:27
schestowitzCan a connection between MS PR and Alex Zaharov-Reutt   be shown?Jun 01 16:27
schestowitzHe seems to be flogging lots of the W-E-esque stuffJun 01 16:27
DaemonFCYou'd get one with any G33, G35, or G43 chipset I believeJun 01 16:27
DaemonFCI wonder how many of those there could beJun 01 16:27
schestowitzI never had any Linux h/w incompatibilitiesJun 01 16:28
schestowitzMaybe just onceJun 01 16:28
DaemonFCit's not a Linux problemJun 01 16:28
schestowitzAn old PC and Ubuntu 5.04Jun 01 16:28
DaemonFCit's Ubuntu problemsJun 01 16:28
fewaive had plenty of windows hardware compatibilitiesJun 01 16:28
schestowitzThe sound balance did not have effectJun 01 16:28
fewatons of bullshitJun 01 16:28
DaemonFCthere's no problem with this device with any distro that's not UbuntuJun 01 16:29
schestowitzSound detected out of the box, but stereo balance would not work, so I put SUSE 9.3 on itJun 01 16:29
DaemonFCI repeat, no other distroJun 01 16:29
schestowitzThat was before the MS deal BTWJun 01 16:29
fewacause all the drivers are closed source so the manufactures refuse to release new driversJun 01 16:29
DaemonFCthere's no closed source driver for this deviceJun 01 16:29
neighborleeits a linux problemJun 01 16:29
DaemonFCall GPLJun 01 16:29
DaemonFCall in the kernelJun 01 16:29
neighborleelook what a mess they ALL caused with pulseaudioJun 01 16:29
neighborleeit was crappolaJun 01 16:29
neighborleeimhoJun 01 16:29
schestowitzBull, no?Jun 01 16:29
DaemonFCIt's a combination of Ubuntu kernel bugs and Ubuntu Pulseaudio configurationJun 01 16:30
schestowitzSome people say they never had issuesJun 01 16:30
DaemonFCthey combine to create this perfect storm of shitJun 01 16:30
neighborleeschestowitz, I suspect hardware differences..they are not all created equal sadly enoughJun 01 16:30
schestowitzPulseaudio is run by Red HatJun 01 16:30
schestowitzFedora... Red Hat-hired dev (adopted him)Jun 01 16:30
neighborleeschestowitz, which comes back to  solid QA.which is sorely lacking in linux, due to fragmentationJun 01 16:30
neighborleeschestowitz, as I see itJun 01 16:30
schestowitzFedora 11 will gain them more usersJun 01 16:31
DaemonFCyeah, Fedora 10 can have some issues, slight crackling, but turning off timer scheduling fixes itJun 01 16:31
DaemonFCFedora 11 and Mandriva 2009.1 work fine as isJun 01 16:31
neighborleeschestowitz, if they lose mono it willl ;)Jun 01 16:31
fewaneighborlee, schestowitz my 24-bit soundblaster doesnt work well with pulseaudio, but all I had to do was put ALSA in charge and run pulseaudio throught that and everything was fineJun 01 16:31
MinceRpulseaudio sucksJun 01 16:31
fewasystem should be a little smarter with such thingsJun 01 16:32
schestowitzneighborlee: if they lose Mono we can promote itJun 01 16:32
schestowitzOther than BLAGJun 01 16:32
DaemonFCPulseaudio doesn't suckJun 01 16:32
MinceRyes it doesJun 01 16:32
DaemonFCUbuntu is too stupid to set it rightJun 01 16:32
neighborleeschestowitz, totally agree..that would rock yes.Jun 01 16:32
MinceRit redoes dmix, except much worseJun 01 16:32
neighborleeschestowitz, is gone I gues on livecd..but still there on  upgrade path ??..so its still 'there'Jun 01 16:32
schestowitzneighborlee: drown it in the bathJun 01 16:32
neighborleehehJun 01 16:33
DaemonFCof course Ubuntu users have problems with Pulseaudio, you don't exactly have the cream of the crop putting Ubuntu together backwardsJun 01 16:33
schestowitzTo wash it..Jun 01 16:33
DaemonFCnow do you?Jun 01 16:33
schestowitzOff patentsJun 01 16:33
schestowitzGnote .040 is outJun 01 16:33
DaemonFCputting it backwards with a few parts left overJun 01 16:33
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 16:33
schestowitz*0.4.0Jun 01 16:33
schestowitzneighborlee: How GNU/Linux users can keep Mono at bay  < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25352/1148/ ?Jun 01 16:33
schestowitz^I think you were away when I posted it this morningJun 01 16:34
taconeyes, it's some days it's out.Jun 01 16:34
neighborleeschestowitz, checking andyup I wasJun 01 16:34
neighborleeschestowitz, really like same..gutsy and determined ;0-Jun 01 16:34
DaemonFCschestowitz: I wonder when moonlight will be added to the non-free pile of crap metapackageJun 01 16:34
neighborleeschestowitz, err  SAMJun 01 16:34
DaemonFCthey already slap in Microsoft formatsJun 01 16:35
schestowitzMaybe when Microsoft bids for NOVLJun 01 16:35
DaemonFCFROM MicrosoftJun 01 16:35
schestowitzOnly option anyway..Jun 01 16:35
DaemonFCwithout askingJun 01 16:35
neighborleeschestowitz, thx indeed ,but I already knew about: Introduces an intentional conflict with Mono packages <<Jun 01 16:35
taconemononono ?Jun 01 16:35
DaemonFCand Microsoft fontsJun 01 16:35
taconeblogging about it served something.Jun 01 16:35
neighborleeschestowitz, little comfort, when those that dont know about mono or why its dangerous, will use the apps created by it..but its something I guessJun 01 16:35
neighborleetacone, lolJun 01 16:36
schestowitzSELECT * from NOVL where MONO=ONJun 01 16:36
schestowitzSUE TABLE .MONOJun 01 16:36
DaemonFCsome Novell guy had ported Banshee to Windows at one pointJun 01 16:36
DaemonFCjust a test buildJun 01 16:37
taconenot to say he learned about it by me, but it's possibleJun 01 16:37
taconeschestowitz: echo "mono" | sed s/mo//Jun 01 16:37
schestowitzWe have some research on this around here... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8077240.stmJun 01 16:38
MinceRDaemonFC: i'm sure vista does pulseaudio rightJun 01 16:38
MinceRoh, waitJun 01 16:38
fewavista auto stack is a jokeJun 01 16:39
fewa*audioJun 01 16:39
neighborleeIf Tim's computers don't have the horsepower to run .NET applications, maybe he should get a job, move out of his mother's basement, and upgrade to computers that are less than five years old. < utter proof, that mono supporters only care about attacking  instead of laying out reasoned debate..oh wait there IS NONE ;))Jun 01 16:39
DaemonFCVista can use PulseaudioJun 01 16:39
schestowitz└─(16:39 $)─> find | grep mono | echo "mono" | sed s/mo//Jun 01 16:39
schestowitznoJun 01 16:39
schestowitznoJun 01 16:39
schestowitznoJun 01 16:39
schestowitznoJun 01 16:39
schestowitznoJun 01 16:39
schestowitznoJun 01 16:39
schestowitznoJun 01 16:39
schestowitzno!!!!!!!!!!!!11Jun 01 16:39
schestowitzhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/The_Scream.jpgJun 01 16:40
MinceRyes|sed s/y/no\!/Jun 01 16:41
DaemonFChttp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/libraries/bonus-tracks/rheet.wavJun 01 16:41
schestowitzCuba slams Microsoft censorship < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184454/cuba-slams-microsoft-censorship >Jun 01 16:42
schestowitzThe Inquirer just seems to link a lot to AP (via Aussie press) to make some dull postings.Jun 01 16:42
DaemonFCwhile Cuba censures the internetJun 01 16:43
zacharymboy do I hate novellJun 01 16:43
taconethink about what cuba could have done if no linux existed.Jun 01 16:43
DaemonFCso that people there can't google "freedom"Jun 01 16:43
schestowitzMentioned here yesterday: Yahoo shuts 360 < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184449/yahoo-shuts-360 >Jun 01 16:43
DaemonFCironyJun 01 16:43
schestowitzJust another reason not to host pages/site somewhere elseJun 01 16:43
schestowitzFirst GeocitiesJun 01 16:43
schestowitzNow Yahoo!360Jun 01 16:43
schestowitzAnd DaemonFC puts his data in wordpress.comJun 01 16:43
fewaschestowitz, thats just another reason for open protocolsJun 01 16:43
schestowitzNot smart..Jun 01 16:43
schestowitzzacharym: why?Jun 01 16:43
schestowitzI don't hate Novell myselfJun 01 16:44
schestowitzLogically, companies like Novell just need not to receive money so that ethical business inherit their placeJun 01 16:44
schestowitzLike MandrivaJun 01 16:44
schestowitzfewa: wordpress.com enables export as XMLJun 01 16:45
schestowitzGeocities was made weird when Yahoo! bought it Jun 01 16:45
schestowitzI could no longer access my files with some file managersJun 01 16:45
fewabut its nuts that they didnt keep it upJun 01 16:45
DaemonFC*censors evenJun 01 16:45
schestowitzBut I have local copiesJun 01 16:45
*DaemonFC needs a napJun 01 16:45
fewaits not like it costed them anythingJun 01 16:45
fewathey could have turned it into a archive site, turning off uploads etcJun 01 16:46
schestowitzAnyway, just some old site from 12 years agoJun 01 16:46
taconeDaemonFC: don't forget the pills :PJun 01 16:46
fewabut shutting it down is just a wasteJun 01 16:46
DaemonFCwhy would I take pills?Jun 01 16:46
schestowitzCater-pill-arJun 01 16:46
DaemonFCdope is for dopesJun 01 16:46
DaemonFC:PJun 01 16:46
DaemonFCso why would I take dope to cope?Jun 01 16:46
DaemonFC:P\Jun 01 16:46
fewaarchiving data is basically free these days, if somebody meant for their data to be public, then keep it publicJun 01 16:47
schestowitzSwedish pirate party tipped for EU win  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184453/swedish-pirate-party-tipped-eu-win >. Maybe the name "pirate party" sounds too aggressive, but..Jun 01 16:48
fewaschestowitz, no its not, its turning the mischaracterization, and attacking it for the straw man it isJun 01 16:48
schestowitzfewa: URIs can changeJun 01 16:48
schestowitzfewa: oh, I seee..Jun 01 16:48
schestowitzWell, RMS says that "pirate bay" is not a good name to go by either wayJun 01 16:49
schestowitzHe knows why they use the wordJun 01 16:49
DaemonFCUnlicensed Copy BayJun 01 16:49
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 16:49
fewawell american politics are differnt from swedish onesJun 01 16:49
schestowitzhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/25352/1148/ "Mono at bay"Jun 01 16:49
schestowitzMono is "piracy"?Jun 01 16:49
schestowitz"Patent piracy" is a funny termJun 01 16:50
schestowitzit's not even copyingJun 01 16:50
schestowitzThink about itJun 01 16:50
taconeis itwire attacking mono ?Jun 01 16:50
schestowitzIf I borrow an idea...Jun 01 16:50
fewathe idea the politicians and governments can criminalize their children and constituents en mass has only gotten hold in the US ("drug war")Jun 01 16:50
schestowitzOr if I mistakenly think someone that someone far away thought about too, then I might be a murdererJun 01 16:50
schestowitz"Patent piracy"...Jun 01 16:50
MinceRword piracy!Jun 01 16:51
MinceRair piracy!Jun 01 16:51
schestowitzShoosh!Jun 01 16:51
schestowitzYou speak too muchJun 01 16:51
schestowitzYou breath more airJun 01 16:51
schestowitz"Stealing" ours!Jun 01 16:51
fewaand the supreme court has specifically said that copyright infringement is not "stealing" nor "theft", yet this hasnt kept the MPAA et al, form continuing that mischaracterizationJun 01 16:51
schestowitzAir tax..Jun 01 16:51
schestowitzThink about itJun 01 16:51
schestowitzLike property taxJun 01 16:51
DaemonFCno, peoples republicsJun 01 16:51
schestowitzHomeless people can be charged tooJun 01 16:52
DaemonFCand Islamic countriesJun 01 16:52
DaemonFCare far more effectiveJun 01 16:52
schestowitzYou ask the govt, "how will you change them"Jun 01 16:52
DaemonFCat torturing and killing innocent peopleJun 01 16:52
DaemonFC:)Jun 01 16:52
*jbartosik (n=joszi@aasu224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #boycottnovellJun 01 16:52
schestowitzAnd proudly they shalt reply, "the air... what we all have in common is that we breathe. Can we tax that?"Jun 01 16:52
schestowitzDaemonFC: well, what about the US?Jun 01 16:53
schestowitzKilling innocent people ABROAD?Jun 01 16:53
schestowitzLike millions in Vietnam... South America...Jun 01 16:53
schestowitzHow's that for atrocious?Jun 01 16:53
schestowitzWhat I try to say is that you can be a hypocriteJun 01 16:53
DaemonFCmeh, we'll never be as bad as the Islamics or communistsJun 01 16:54
schestowitzIt's arguably worse to lynch someone across the border for not agreeing with some foreign set of principles. Like those leaders which the US had murdered (by proxy) for not putting some countries at the cntres of their world (aka "democracy")Jun 01 16:54
DaemonFCwell, what I mean is that when Iran murders children in the streets and laughs about itJun 01 16:55
DaemonFCwell, Islam is its own brand of evilJun 01 16:55
DaemonFCconstant persecution and murder for "crimes against nature" is pretty much all that comes from letting a murderous religion to control your governmentJun 01 16:56
DaemonFCIslam and Christianity are the most horrible things that people have ever createdJun 01 16:57
schestowitzBritain leads world in police state survey < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/01/snooping_poll/ >Jun 01 16:58
taconeJesus was a community managerJun 01 16:58
schestowitzThis is good??Jun 01 16:58
taconea good one, apparently.Jun 01 16:58
DaemonFCJesus never existedJun 01 16:58
schestowitzDaemonFC: stop trollingJun 01 16:58
DaemonFChe was based on the pagan god-man ideaJun 01 16:58
schestowitzYou bring relion into it under a pseudonymJun 01 16:58
schestowitzJust to annoy peopleJun 01 16:58
DaemonFCsame as most ancient dietiesJun 01 16:58
schestowitz*religionJun 01 16:59
DaemonFCif you go back into several dozen other ancient religions, they all say the same storyJun 01 16:59
DaemonFCit's because they're based on astrologyJun 01 17:00
DaemonFCChristianity has been used by lots of governments to try and control peopleJun 01 17:01
DaemonFCever since the Roman EmpireJun 01 17:01
schestowitzNews about Tom Tom and nothing about Linux: Tom Tom flags down 'live traffic' XL satnav < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05/30/video_tom_tom_xl/ >Jun 01 17:01
schestowitzYesJun 01 17:02
schestowitzBut it used to be chruch I thinkJun 01 17:02
schestowitzRulers ratherJun 01 17:02
schestowitzNot federal bureaucratic govts.Jun 01 17:02
schestowitzBut enough about religionJun 01 17:02
*_Goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellJun 01 17:03
_Goblinhi allJun 01 17:03
schestowitz"And since most of the world's computers run on the Windows or the Linux systems, their work has also provided a growing window into how to attack foreign networks in any cyberwar." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/us/31cyber.htmlJun 01 17:04
schestowitz_Goblin: did the Castashill find a new habitat?Jun 01 17:05
schestowitzAfter MSwatch?Jun 01 17:05
schestowitzNeowin maybe? Where do the trolls move to?Jun 01 17:05
_GoblinpassJun 01 17:05
_GoblinNeowin - no troll/shill refused!Jun 01 17:05
_Goblinits sort of a salvation army hostel for the MS faithful.Jun 01 17:06
schestowitzI'm happy MS Watch is goneJun 01 17:06
schestowitzIt's less work for those keeping trackJun 01 17:06
_GoblinIts soon to be registered charity you know.Jun 01 17:06
schestowitzSeattle PI blog is kaput tooJun 01 17:06
schestowitzThe MS blog and othersJun 01 17:06
schestowitzPaper--likewiseJun 01 17:06
_GoblinMicrosoft Watch is going nowhereJun 01 17:06
schestowitzOccupied by some actual MS employees nowJun 01 17:06
schestowitzTaking the empty barracks and Maginot linesJun 01 17:07
_Goblineven Andre seems to be shutting up shop.  He's relegated to linking other peoples articles on ActivewinJun 01 17:07
schestowitzJo moved elsewhere, but no MS focusJun 01 17:07
schestowitzTodd Bishop found a new barracks from which to flinf MS PRJun 01 17:07
schestowitz*flingJun 01 17:07
schestowitz_Goblin: goodJun 01 17:07
schestowitzThey lose their PR momentumJun 01 17:08
_GoblinRoy...Would you look at something for me?Jun 01 17:08
schestowitzHow quickly down they go..Jun 01 17:08
*zachary_ (i=zachary@adsl-69-209-124-233.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net) has joined #boycottnovellJun 01 17:08
schestowitz.We need to just promote Linux some more and ODF tooJun 01 17:08
schestowitzWithout Windows and Office Microsoft is deeper in what they callously call "Death spiral"Jun 01 17:08
schestowitzWith Bing and Zune! ;-)Jun 01 17:08
_GoblinHave a look at my Mandriva article and tell me if you think there is something iffy about the comments by "LinuxLover"Jun 01 17:08
schestowitzZunbingsoftJun 01 17:08
schestowitzZunbingsoft360.NETJun 01 17:09
*zacharym has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Jun 01 17:09
schestowitz_Goblin: LinuxLover would not be a Linux userJun 01 17:09
schestowitzTrolls use such namesJun 01 17:09
schestowitzWhat's the URL again?Jun 01 17:09
schestowitzTo gain credibility some trolls use names like "Gentoo users" so that you think they're 1337 hax0rsJun 01 17:10
_Goblinhttp://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/is-there-only-one-choice-for-the-linux-newcomer/Jun 01 17:10
DaemonFCjust bing it :PJun 01 17:10
DaemonFChehJun 01 17:11
schestowitzLinuxLover knows his stuffJun 01 17:11
schestowitzSo no, it's not a fakerJun 01 17:11
DaemonFClinsux.org just looks like kidsJun 01 17:12
_GoblinBut requiring the CLI for Ubuntu?  I disagreeJun 01 17:12
schestowitzI see that Ed still posts COLA stuff: http://www.s5h.net/Jun 01 17:12
schestowitzDaemonFC: yes, it isJun 01 17:13
schestowitzScript kiddies and Satanic cultureJun 01 17:13
*zachary_ is now known as zacharymJun 01 17:14
_GoblinTaken your comment on board Roy, but I have one of my "feelings" about LinuxLoverJun 01 17:14
_GoblinIve challenged him to give examples (in respect of the average user)Jun 01 17:14
_Goblinpolitely of course.Jun 01 17:14
DaemonFCPC-BSD is back on sale at FrysJun 01 17:17
DaemonFCI picked up a boxed setJun 01 17:17
neighborleeDaemonFC, too bad there are no 64bit nvidia drivers for bsd yetJun 01 17:17
DaemonFCit has both DVDs in one boxJun 01 17:18
_Goblinnieghborlee, sorry I missed your PM's yesterdayJun 01 17:18
neighborleenpJun 01 17:18
DaemonFCI mainly got it for my laptopJun 01 17:18
DaemonFCbut the 32-bit version supports PAEJun 01 17:18
_GoblinI didn't notice until you had gone.Jun 01 17:18
DaemonFCso technically I could use it on my desktopJun 01 17:18
neighborlee_Goblin, ah yes happens no worriesJun 01 17:18
_GoblinRoy, I meant to say...I'll be visiting relatives in your end of the world in August...Maybe we can meet up for a drink (as long as you don't mind my wife in tow!)Jun 01 17:20
schestowitzEveryone loves the MAFIAA. Not. Joss Stone offers to pay £2m to escape EMI < http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jun/01/joss-stone-emi >Jun 01 17:22
schestowitz_Goblin: sure!Jun 01 17:23
_Goblin:)Jun 01 17:24
*tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Jun 01 17:25
schestowitz WITNESS - A night with China's secret police in 1989 < http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-39988120090531?sp=true >Jun 01 17:27
schestowitzThe Top 6 Game-Changing Features of Google Wave < http://mashable.com/2009/05/31/google-wave-features/ >. Has anyone tried it properly?Jun 01 17:28
schestowitzEruaran did the demo..Jun 01 17:28
schestowitzPJ (Groklaw) thinks about replacing her comments in Groklaw with WaveJun 01 17:28
schestowitzWouldn't that be quite a change?Jun 01 17:28
EruaranThat would be coolJun 01 17:28
fewaschestowitz, its not avalable yetJun 01 17:28
schestowitzLike in BN, most communication is not in relay (IRC), not comments, which I put further down in the pages so it's not so visible.Jun 01 17:29
schestowitzfewa: I knowJun 01 17:29
schestowitzBut PJ thinks it might be better for the Groklaw community to researchJun 01 17:29
fewaschestowitz, but if it kills facebook im all for itJun 01 17:29
schestowitzThey had Wiki spam problemsJun 01 17:29
schestowitzI don't like FacebookJun 01 17:29
fewaagreedJun 01 17:29
fewaits so closedJun 01 17:30
schestowitzIt's like some kind of a police fileJun 01 17:30
schestowitzOnly with more photos and inter-personal connectionsJun 01 17:30
fewaand vastly more privacy needy than googleJun 01 17:30
schestowitzYes, but..Jun 01 17:30
trmancoahJun 01 17:30
fewait has a flash bug in every pageJun 01 17:30
trmancohelloJun 01 17:30
trmancoI'm backJun 01 17:30
schestowitzGoogle thinks about doing public profiles for usersJun 01 17:30
schestowitzI saw it some months agoJun 01 17:30
schestowitztrmanco: summer's hibernation?Jun 01 17:31
schestowitzGnote 0.4.0 is outJun 01 17:31
fewato use flashs underreported "locally stored objects" ie flash cookies, that live foreverJun 01 17:31
schestowitzNow in Debian Lenny (almost)Jun 01 17:31
trmancoschestowitz, no, I would say incompetence is the caseJun 01 17:31
trmancothe telecom guys for some reason like to harass my telephone lineJun 01 17:31
schestowitzMicrosoft is still going down, too.Jun 01 17:31
trmancoah, greatJun 01 17:31
trmancoI'll announce Gnote in a whileJun 01 17:32
schestowitzWhile marketing 'recover' based on the printing of more moneyJun 01 17:32
fewamicrosoft has 50% in facebookJun 01 17:32
trmancowhen was it released?Jun 01 17:32
schestowitz(i.e. preparation for even bigger downfall_)Jun 01 17:32
schestowitzfewa: 5%Jun 01 17:32
fewao reallyJun 01 17:32
schestowitzYeahJun 01 17:32
fewao0OJun 01 17:32
schestowitzIIRCJun 01 17:32
schestowitzJust a pawnJun 01 17:32
schestowitzTo guard its controlJun 01 17:32
schestowitzZuckenblob is a buddy of MSJun 01 17:32
schestowitzHe visits them sometimesJun 01 17:33
schestowitzSo something to keep an eye on; or not bother ratherJun 01 17:33
fewao yeahJun 01 17:33
fewahttp://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/24/facebook-takes-the-microsoft-money-and-runs/Jun 01 17:33
schestowitzPreparing to Sell E-Books, Google Takes on Amazon  < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/technology/internet/01google.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss >Jun 01 17:33
schestowitzLiterature monopolyJun 01 17:33
schestowitzI sometimes need access to booksJun 01 17:33
schestowitzGoogle Books lets me in without buying the bookJun 01 17:34
schestowitzExposing like 1/3 of /new/ booksJun 01 17:34
schestowitzIt does make me wonderJun 01 17:34
EruaranI couldn't help thinking when I watched the keynote on WaveJun 01 17:34
schestowitz*LOL* http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/01/badda-bing-indeed/Jun 01 17:34
schestowitzMicrosoft: the pr0n engineJun 01 17:35
schestowitzMaybe that's their business modeJun 01 17:35
schestowitzUse US!! We got pr0nJun 01 17:35
EruaranThese folks at Google are on a similar *wave*length (pardon the pun) to KDE with the kinds of internet driven social/semantic stuff they want to advanceJun 01 17:35
schestowitz"Loic Le Meur, did was search for “sex” or “porn.” The results are majestic — if you’re a teenager looking for a way around porn filters on your computer. And this isn’t artful porn or something like it, it’s straight-up, hardcore pornography."Jun 01 17:35
trmancoahJun 01 17:36
EruaranSo I won't be surprised at all to see the KDE community embracing Wave enthusiasticallyJun 01 17:36
schestowitzNo manual cleanupJun 01 17:36
schestowitzBingbing! Stright out the doorJun 01 17:36
trmancoI love this feeling of being back once againJun 01 17:36
schestowitzSo will MS block Bing like it blocks Google?Jun 01 17:36
EruaranI can imagine Aaron loves itJun 01 17:36
schestowitz[in thweir filter]Jun 01 17:36
fewaschestowitz, thats the game of all the non-youtube video sites tooJun 01 17:36
schestowitzLycos Buys Its Trademarks Back From Failed Euro Arm < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-lycos-buys-its-trademarks-back-from-failed-euro-arm/ >Jun 01 17:37
fewaEruaran, that would be very interestingJun 01 17:37
schestowitzBuying "IP" and stuff..Jun 01 17:37
EruaranWave will take off... so, what's M$ going to do about such a potentially 'mote filling' changeJun 01 17:37
trmancooh, bing, I've heard about that on fridayJun 01 17:37
schestowitztrmanco: not missed muchJun 01 17:38
Eruaranbing has gone liveJun 01 17:38
schestowitzNo lawsuits or anythingJun 01 17:38
trmancohas it crashed already?Jun 01 17:38
Eruaranand you can hear the crickets alreadyJun 01 17:38
schestowitztrmanco: yesJun 01 17:38
schestowitzCrashedJun 01 17:38
trmancoit's written in .NitJun 01 17:38
schestowitzBlank pagesJun 01 17:38
trmancoright?Jun 01 17:38
trmancoahJun 01 17:38
schestowitzWelcome to search.. coming soonJun 01 17:38
Eruaranreally ?Jun 01 17:38
schestowitzIt runs LinuxJun 01 17:38
*Eruaran guffawsJun 01 17:38
schestowitzOr behind LinuxJun 01 17:38
schestowitzBut probably .NYET at the backJun 01 17:38
trmancoahJun 01 17:39
trmancosome thing newJun 01 17:39
trmancoI would rely on Icaza to write that for LinuxJun 01 17:39
trmanco...Jun 01 17:39
trmancoand then force everyone to use those appsJun 01 17:39
schestowitzBritish supermarkets accused over destruction of Amazon rainforest < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/may/31/supermarkets-amazon-cattle-deforestation-greenpeace >Jun 01 17:39
schestowitztrmanco: Maybe he'll write "I'm a fan"Jun 01 17:40
EruaranI can imagine Microsoft would try to come up with its own "wave"... and they'd try to tie it in with Windows and OfficeJun 01 17:40
schestowitzLike he did for "Linux Haters"Jun 01 17:40
trmancohehJun 01 17:40
schestowitzGoogle Wave and news < http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/31/google-wave-and-news/ >Jun 01 17:40
EruaranWhat's happening in Gnomeland ?Jun 01 17:40
zacharymI don't mind GTK+ but I hate MonoJun 01 17:41
zacharymGreat way to introduce patent encumbered libraries to LinuxJun 01 17:41
*schestowitz watches Google Wave Developer Preview at Google I/O 2009 < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_UyVmITiYQ&feature=channel >Jun 01 17:44
schestowitzHTML 5 and Web video: freeing rich media from plugin prison http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/google-dailymotion-endorse-html-5-and-standards-based-video.ars Jun 01 17:45
schestowitz'The expense crisis reveals a nation governed by a political elite that has stopped listening and who are accountable to no one but their party machines. Too many MPs seem more interested in changing their homes than changing the world." http://www.voteforachange.co.uk/Jun 01 17:45
EruaranWhen I saw Wave translating as people type, merging email and conversations, live markup and document collaboration, sharing media, games, live postings, comments and updates of blogs on the fly etc etc... all in the one seamless and nice to use interface... and then was told its open, anybody will be able to implement it, I thought holy crap this could be bigJun 01 17:45
fewaschestowitz, i pointed out that ars article yesterdayJun 01 17:46
schestowitzSublime or ridiculous? The 49-way USB hub < http://thenextweb.com/2009/05/31/sublime-ridiculous-49way-usb-hub/ >Jun 01 17:46
schestowitzfewa: yes, I knowJun 01 17:46
schestowitzThere are many like itJun 01 17:46
schestowitzI saw the html5 YouTube thing like 5-6 days agoJun 01 17:46
schestowitzVery excitingJun 01 17:47
schestowitzImagine shunning all but's the first to use OggJun 01 17:47
fewaschestowitz, i emailed RMS about that about a month ago and he schruged me offJun 01 17:47
schestowitzImagine shunning all but YouTube when it's the first to use OggJun 01 17:47
fewaas <video> <canvas> and js replacing flashJun 01 17:47
EruaranI believe Google's motives are not just autralisticJun 01 17:49
Eruaran*autralistic ?Jun 01 17:49
schestowitzElectoral Fraud Alert < http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/05/electoral_fraud.html >Jun 01 17:49
schestowitzEruaran: so what would it be?Jun 01 17:49
schestowitzSurely not the anti-Flash crowdJun 01 17:49
schestowitzWhich is a  minority in the GNU/Linux communityJun 01 17:49
EruaranI think Google believes (and I'd agree) that a completely open web founded on strong standards creates an online world much bigger and more vibrant than what we have todayJun 01 17:50
schestowitzYesJun 01 17:50
EruaranAnd the opportunities would be hugeJun 01 17:50
schestowitzBut that might even be called altrusicJun 01 17:50
schestowitzEven if done for selfish reasonsJun 01 17:50
fewaive got this bee in my room thats been obviously poisoned by some pesticideJun 01 17:50
Eruaranah thanks for correcting my spellingJun 01 17:50
schestowitzThat is, for Google to get good karma/PRJun 01 17:50
schestowitzAnd also to harm MS by doing soJun 01 17:50
schestowitzThink about itJun 01 17:50
EruaranyesJun 01 17:50
schestowitzMore standards =less Silver LieJun 01 17:51
schestowitzMore standards = powerful Web appsJun 01 17:51
schestowitzMore standards = Chrome, Firefox, WebkitJun 01 17:51
schestowitzMore standards = more search, indexing, ADSJun 01 17:51
schestowitzAds in Web pagesJun 01 17:51
schestowitzGOogle does not sell s/wJun 01 17:51
fewamore web pagesJun 01 17:51
schestowitzNot even UrchinJun 01 17:51
EruaranMicrosoft's "widening of the mote" becomes an irrelevant castawayJun 01 17:51
schestowitzMS tries Works with adsJun 01 17:51
schestowitzWho would buy itJun 01 17:52
schestowitzOoo>WorksJun 01 17:52
schestowitzAnd OOo uses standardsJun 01 17:52
schestowitzNo ads (yet)Jun 01 17:52
schestowitzWe'll see what Oracssonnn doesJun 01 17:52
fewaits open source people can just remove the adsJun 01 17:52
fewagoogle can do ads cause most people dont botherJun 01 17:52
schestowitzSome like itJun 01 17:52
fewathe switching costs and transaction costs are too low to materJun 01 17:52
schestowitzMy parents like the adsJun 01 17:52
EruaranI think as cool as Wave is, the biggest thing is that its openJun 01 17:52
schestowitzDon't laughJun 01 17:52
fewaand yes, google ads are the best ads out thereJun 01 17:53
EruaranThey want to change the web and the way people communicateJun 01 17:53
schestowitzNo Outlook??!?! OMGJun 01 17:53
schestowitzWhat about ExcheeeeeeeeengeJun 01 17:53
EruaranWave will kill OutlookJun 01 17:53
EruaranAnd ExchangeJun 01 17:53
schestowitzBut.. but.......Jun 01 17:53
schestowitzExxchange!Jun 01 17:53
schestowitzAnd SharePunktJun 01 17:53
EruarangoneJun 01 17:54
schestowitzPeople will just share pagesJun 01 17:54
schestowitzAnd video and 'stuff'Jun 01 17:54
EruaranPeople will just share informationJun 01 17:54
Eruarantheir 'stuff'Jun 01 17:54
schestowitzAnd pass around documents not in .doc and MOOXJun 01 17:54
schestowitzNo MS middlewareJun 01 17:54
schestowitzTranport and tools combinedJun 01 17:54
schestowitzRather than clients for port X and then a toolset of apps for manipulating dateJun 01 17:55
schestowitzLike Windows Media PlayerJun 01 17:55
EruaranWave has the potential to make the sharing of information over the web seamless and transparent in a way that could relegate software like Outlook to the dustbin of historyJun 01 17:55
schestowitzWindows Movie MakerJun 01 17:55
schestowitzWMV only. BlechJun 01 17:55
schestowitzI see...Jun 01 17:55
EruaranEmbed a video ? Done.Jun 01 17:55
schestowitzSo Wave is an enhancement to GMail that brings together the bits like Google AppsJun 01 17:55
EruaranShare pictures ? Done.Jun 01 17:55
schestowitzAnd media player (YouTube)Jun 01 17:56
EruaranLive and realtime.Jun 01 17:56
schestowitzThen puts them in one placeJun 01 17:56
schestowitzSo no need for middleware serversJun 01 17:56
schestowitzLike Exchange and SharePointJun 01 17:56
EruaranyesJun 01 17:56
schestowitzPages hosted on Google tooJun 01 17:56
schestowitzFor good uptimeJun 01 17:56
schestowitzPicasaJun 01 17:56
EruaranGoogle gives it awayJun 01 17:56
schestowitzFor photo sharingJun 01 17:56
EruaranGoogle Wave will be only one 'wave'Jun 01 17:56
schestowitzNo more 50MB Zips with pics in one's mailboxJun 01 17:56
Eruaranamong manyJun 01 17:56
EruaranAnyone can implement WaveJun 01 17:57
schestowitzYesJun 01 17:57
schestowitzSortaJun 01 17:57
schestowitzThey have some hooksJun 01 17:57
schestowitzLike GMailJun 01 17:57
EruaranGoogle Wave will be just a 'production ready reference'Jun 01 17:57
schestowitzI want to see if Groklaw picks it upJun 01 17:57
EruaranYou don't have to use GmailJun 01 17:57
EruaranIt plugs into anythingJun 01 17:57
schestowitzGoogle also does enterprise searchJun 01 17:57
schestowitzThis is why MS is soterrifiedJun 01 17:58
trmancopffJun 01 17:58
schestowitzit has a Twitter clone nowJun 01 17:58
trmancobanshee for ubuntuJun 01 17:58
schestowitzYeah..Jun 01 17:58
trmancoIt' time for me to switch to something worthyJun 01 17:58
trmancolike GentooJun 01 17:58
schestowitzTell them about itJun 01 17:58
schestowitzTell UbuntuJun 01 17:58
EruaranYou can tweet on twitter from Wave and your tweets are automatically updatedJun 01 17:58
schestowitzSo that they feel the loss of trust due to MonoJun 01 17:58
EruaranYou can have Ubuntu WaveJun 01 17:58
schestowitzEruaran: yes, API-orientedJun 01 17:58
schestowitzMS doesn't know what API meansJun 01 17:59
schestowitzAPI means "OMG! Where is our precious lockin?"Jun 01 17:59
EruaranIf Ballmer realises what Wave represents I don't think he'll throw a chair this time... This time he'll be catatonic.Jun 01 17:59
zacharymhahaJun 01 18:00
zacharymsoon google will be as hated as microsoftJun 01 18:00
zacharymonce they get power drunkJun 01 18:00
schestowitzGovernment official wants to bring Three Strikes to Germany < http://www.p2p-blog.com/item-1064.html >Jun 01 18:00
fewa^^^^^^^^^^^^Jun 01 18:00
EruaranFor giving away their API's for free ?Jun 01 18:00
fewaactually, wave looks friggen awesomeJun 01 18:01
zacharymJust wait...Jun 01 18:01
schestowitzSearch is the issueJun 01 18:01
EruaranGoogle wont control WaveJun 01 18:01
schestowitzIt's the core where Google has controlJun 01 18:01
schestowitzAnd it's ahrd to gain momentuim in search from 0Jun 01 18:01
schestowitzBut... Google also misuses searchJun 01 18:01
schestowitzSo be carefulJun 01 18:01
schestowitzDon't give them too much creditJun 01 18:02
schestowitzMS was seen as the white knight by some in the early 80s (battling evil IBM)Jun 01 18:02
schestowitzGoogle manipulated search results to promote its AppsJun 01 18:02
fewa^^and apple's hardware lock-inJun 01 18:02
schestowitzSo it needs some pressure to play fairJun 01 18:02
schestowitzfewa: yes, even worseJun 01 18:02
EruaranWell, there's no lock-inJun 01 18:02
fewapeople need to use competitiorsJun 01 18:02
fewaEruaran, 1984 is worse than lock inJun 01 18:03
fewathats what the apple ad was all aboutJun 01 18:03
zacharymschestowitz: the underdog is always hailed as beating the bad guy (microsoft) in this caseJun 01 18:03
schestowitzTime Magazine, which is a strong pro-Microsoft publication, is essentially dead. < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090529/1910285056.shtml >Jun 01 18:03
zacharymschestowitz: once google goes to the top, the cycle will repeatJun 01 18:04
Eruaranfewa: Google is giving Wave awayJun 01 18:04
zacharymit's been this way for agesJun 01 18:04
schestowitzzacharym: yesJun 01 18:04
fewazacharym, and its the best free markey systemJun 01 18:04
schestowitzBest?Jun 01 18:04
schestowitzHow so?Jun 01 18:04
fewanevermindJun 01 18:04
schestowitzI'd rather see decentralisation of softwareJun 01 18:05
fewabetter than other systemsJun 01 18:05
schestowitzLike GNU suggestsJun 01 18:05
schestowitzNo winners and loserJun 01 18:05
schestowitzNo winners and losersJun 01 18:05
schestowitzJust sharers of better s/wJun 01 18:05
schestowitzLike ApacheJun 01 18:05
schestowitzPool the patchesJun 01 18:05
schestowitzSpread the softwareJun 01 18:05
schestowitzMix and match GPL s/wJun 01 18:05
EruaranyesJun 01 18:05
schestowitzLXDE, KDE, GNOME...Jun 01 18:05
schestowitzImagine having the "Linux desktop environment".Jun 01 18:06
schestowitzWhat would we brag about?Jun 01 18:06
zacharymIf there was perfect competition the market would decide which was the best and it would be used.Jun 01 18:06
schestowitzWhat to debate over?Jun 01 18:06
fewathats the bestJun 01 18:06
schestowitzicon sets?Jun 01 18:06
zacharymThis isn't the case with businesses such as Google/MicrosoftJun 01 18:06
schestowitzLike ages of WIndows, where some s/w GOD tells YOU what the next version you WILL use look likeJun 01 18:06
fewayeah i take back what i just saidJun 01 18:06
fewabut its better than some systems have been in the pastJun 01 18:07
*DaemonFC has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?")Jun 01 18:07
schestowitzSureJun 01 18:07
zacharymGoogle basically decides what is seen on the internet, they censor search results....Jun 01 18:07
schestowitzGPL is not communismJun 01 18:07
zacharymthey control information in a senseJun 01 18:07
schestowitzIt's scienceJun 01 18:07
fewaschestowitz, absolutelyJun 01 18:07
schestowitzSo there is more than one strandJun 01 18:07
fewahttp://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/05/et_tu_kk_aka_no_kevin_this_is.htmlJun 01 18:07
schestowitzCommunism is monocultureJun 01 18:07
fewalessig says it perfectallyJun 01 18:08
schestowitzThe most diversity exists in LinuxJun 01 18:08
schestowitz1000+ distrosJun 01 18:08
schestowitzPeople talk about all the CHOICE Linux offersJun 01 18:08
schestowitzWhile at the same time libeling it as communismJun 01 18:08
schestowitzfewa: I saw thgatJun 01 18:08
schestowitzYes, there are other pages I was shown where Lessig is called a commieJun 01 18:09
schestowitzBalrog shared them here some months agoJun 01 18:09
schestowitzSome people buy that FUDJun 01 18:09
neighborleeschestowitz, http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2009/05/microsoft_update_quietly_insta.htmlJun 01 18:09
neighborleento sure you know about it, but just in caseJun 01 18:10
neighborleenotJun 01 18:10
fewaits been around for a whileJun 01 18:10
schestowitzhttp://webservices.ieee.org/spectrum/downtmp.htmlJun 01 18:10
fewajust and extention of your "agreement" with microsoft by installing their stuffJun 01 18:10
schestowitzneighborlee: yes, wrote about it yesterday and will do so againJun 01 18:11
neighborleekJun 01 18:11
schestowitzWIndows means "I gave my hardware to Redmond"Jun 01 18:11
schestowitzThat's the short version of thwe EULAJun 01 18:11
neighborleeschestowitz, thats the mentality behind it all..do it so no notices..or at least n ot enough notice..kinda like mono intrustion in linux...;00-Jun 01 18:12
schestowitzPassport applicants face questions on credit history < http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/06/01/236237/passport-applicants-face-questions-on-credit-history.htm >Jun 01 18:12
neighborleeso they become dependent ON itJun 01 18:13
schestowitzYesJun 01 18:13
schestowitzMany people still don't knowJun 01 18:13
schestowitzGnote shook some cages, so more people become aware of itJun 01 18:13
neighborleeit sure did LOLJun 01 18:13
EruaranIts good to rattle some cagesJun 01 18:13
fewaschestowitz, the system is pretty good, a leader raises and is praised, leader hampers innovation and is hated, becomes nice commodity, we move to the next leader in the next environmentJun 01 18:14
zacharymhumans are ignorant in that regard, we never learn from historyJun 01 18:16
zacharymwe always mess up time and time againJun 01 18:16
fewawell most people are not effected by it, they simply get more and better stuff, and as long as they dont fall into the FUD they move onJun 01 18:17
fewaIts a industry self-regulationJun 01 18:17
fewaif people dont understand the technology they must be screwed by itJun 01 18:19
schestowitzI've just left this comment in an attack on us:Jun 01 18:22
schestowitz"I had left over 13,000 comments in Digg.com before leaving it (I was once ranked 17th in Digg.com). The same Microsoft trolls from USENET and Slashdot infested the "UNIX/Linux" section and their goal was achieved when reputation was down the drain. See Comes vs Microsoft exhibits for details about these tactics."Jun 01 18:22
schestowitz"I guess the attacks from Linuxsux (an anti-Linux site BTW, I urge you to look closely enough) simply prove that things we write are anti-anti-Linux, i.e. they annoy the anti-Linux crowd. It means these writings help GNU/Linux."Jun 01 18:22
schestowitzThere this new wave of attacks on usJun 01 18:22
schestowitzNow they modbomb against usJun 01 18:22
schestowitzDDoS was not enough for themJun 01 18:22
schestowitzThey try to frustrate advocates of LinuxJun 01 18:24
schestowitzBasically endless attackJun 01 18:24
schestowitzNot just DDoS on siteJun 01 18:24
fewathats why you cant give them moneyJun 01 18:25
schestowitzAlso distributed attacks with smearsJun 01 18:25
fewathey just use it to attackJun 01 18:25
schestowitzAll for their mighty VoleJun 01 18:25
schestowitzThe context is that they try toi try FSDaily nowJun 01 18:25
schestowitzThe manager is worriedJun 01 18:25
schestowitzThey modbomb the site nowJun 01 18:25
schestowitzLike they did a year agoJun 01 18:26
schestowitzThe people who spread libel about meJun 01 18:26
schestowitzThings like castrations and hospitals and police. All sorts of made-up stories.Jun 01 18:26
schestowitzAnd then they pretend all this libel does not exist. They can be sued, probably.Jun 01 18:26
schestowitzGet your SCO memorabilia while it lasts: http://blogs.computerworld.com/when_sco_is_dead_and_buriedJun 01 18:28
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schestowitzHere's one to vote for: http://slashdot.org/submission/1011151/Linux-market-share-growing-growing-growingJun 01 18:37
schestowitzBoom for Linux: Interactive Ideas gets a lift from Linux sales < http://www.channelweb.co.uk/crn/news/2243253/interactive-ideas-gets-lift >Jun 01 18:39
schestowitzMore evidence that GNU/Linux grows on the desktop: http://www.ciol.com/Developer/Operating-System/News-Reports/Developers-take-a-shift-from-Windows-to-Linux/1609120333/0/ Developers take a shift from Windows to LinuxJun 01 18:41
schestowitzNo Windows in smartbooks, just GNU/Linux < http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2347890,00.asp >Jun 01 18:42
neighborleeschestowitz, LOL last post on that page: http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=13604&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=7Jun 01 18:43
schestowitzMore in http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/hardware/0,39042972,62054524,00.htm and  http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165820/inventec_ready_to_ship_snapdragon_laptop_in_q4.htmlJun 01 18:43
schestowitzneighborlee: yes, got thatJun 01 18:43
schestowitzSeen Jose's comment?Jun 01 18:44
neighborleeheh alrightJun 01 18:44
neighborleeOH YES I didJun 01 18:44
schestowitzListing my employers there is *totally* worthwhile and relevant. Do you want my driving license number whilst you're at it? It starts with an "S"Jun 01 18:44
neighborleenice oneJun 01 18:44
neighborleeLOLJun 01 18:44
schestowitzSM1c305of5Jun 01 18:44
schestowitzNot that it's relevant, but Oxford U is notoriously close to M1c305of5Jun 01 18:46
schestowitzA Linux just for netbooks < http://www.telegram.com/article/20090531/NEWS/905310590/1002/BUSINESS > Why recommend Google Fog Computing) over FOSS?Jun 01 18:47
schestowitz'“This is a huge problem for companies like ours,” said David Bates, intellectual property counsel for GE Healthcare. “It’s extortion, and we do face (these problems) on a regular basis, and because of the way the system is set up we can’t possibly keep up' http://www.biztimes.com/news/2009/5/29/patent-trolls-try-to-rip-off-high-tech-firmsJun 01 18:49
schestowitzSmile! You Can Work for a Tobacco Company! < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8394 > "They then mentioned that the industry's products kill 1,200 people every day in the U.S., asked interviewees whether they thought changing the name of the company was a reasonable way to avoid bad publicity, and whether they thought they could "plead the Fifth" (pointing out that one tobacco industry executive pled the Fifth Amendment 97 times while giJun 01 18:54
schestowitzving a deposition in 1997)."Jun 01 18:54
schestowitzThe very ugly side of the smokassassins industry: Jun 01 18:55
schestowitzProbably similar with cellphones and airbourne broadcasting of all sorts. Some day in the future people might find out. But those able to tell their bad stories might no longer be alive.Jun 01 18:56
schestowitzMore ARM devices are coming (lots of Linux): http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165824/pegatron_to_show_touchscreen_netbook_with_arm_chips.htmlJun 01 18:58
schestowitz"One thought that came to mind was to dual-boot Ubuntu or have a Linux-on-a-stick. Another was to embed the computer in my skull. " http://slashdot.org/submission/1010911/Keeping-the-PC-personal-at-schoolJun 01 19:00
schestowitzBad typo -> http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/960_signs.jpgJun 01 19:02
neighborleeschestowitz, looks like im being told to shut up ( cause how dare I expose directHEX FUD comments) or be banned..or something :) ..:: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1169322&page=2Jun 01 19:05
neighborleeschestowitz, the most severe warning ive yet re cieved..'im rude, pushy,arrogant, and violating spirit of code of conduct'.yet directHEX can use FUD and never be called on it..Jun 01 19:06
neighborleethey are so blind, they dont even see their own hypocrisyJun 01 19:06
*neighborlee is SO GLAD he doesn't use ubuntuJun 01 19:06
neighborleehttp://tim.thechases.com/mononono/ < to reiterate something very important ;)),if you do use it.Jun 01 19:07
schestowitzneighborlee: he's motu nowJun 01 19:07
schestowitzspecial treatmentJun 01 19:07
schestowitzwait until ms bashing gets you banned tooJun 01 19:07
neighborleewhy am I NOT surprisedJun 01 19:08
schestowitzshow me postsJun 01 19:08
schestowitzwhere they threatenJun 01 19:08
schestowitzpaste urlsJun 01 19:08
neighborleeone secJun 01 19:08
schestowitzI'll do a postJun 01 19:08
neighborleeI have them somewhere..Jun 01 19:08
neighborleehttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1105996Jun 01 19:09
neighborleehttp://wwww.ubuntuforums.org/showthr...1166738&page=2Jun 01 19:10
neighborleehttp://wwww.ubuntuforums.org/showthr...ght=FUD&page=2Jun 01 19:10
neighborleeeach time HEX used FUD words..and he was not warned..though I often have been..so I called them out on itJun 01 19:11
neighborleeand have been duly 'warned' about that tooJun 01 19:11
schestowitzHomeland Security to scan fingerprints of travellers exiting the US http://www.itnews.com.au/News/104310,homeland-security-to-scan-fingerprints-of-travellers-exiting-the-us.aspx Jun 01 19:11
schestowitzThe links don't quite workJun 01 19:12
neighborleenet is just a tad slow atmJun 01 19:14
neighborleethey workJun 01 19:14
neighborleetry againJun 01 19:14
schestowitzHulu still hates Linux. < Hulu Releases Desktop Version of Video Site > http://tech.yahoo.com/news/zd/20090528/tc_zd/240782Jun 01 19:14
schestowitzThis takes me to some index pagesJun 01 19:15
schestowitzneighborlee: what's with the .".."?Jun 01 19:15
neighborleeno ideaJun 01 19:16
neighborleehttp://wwww.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1166738&page=2Jun 01 19:16
neighborleethere sorry..Jun 01 19:16
neighborleehttp://wwww.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1153620&highlight=FUD&page=2Jun 01 19:16
neighborleethat should do itJun 01 19:16
schestowitzFascinating. Virgin Galactic tests laughing-gas powered rocket motor < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/spaceshiptwo_rocket_test_virgin/ >Jun 01 19:17
neighborleemy 1st original link is  fine though../Jun 01 19:17
schestowitzUbuntu forums downJun 01 19:17
neighborleetry againJun 01 19:18
neighborleemine are loading hereJun 01 19:18
schestowitzCorruption in CA? California's Silent Big Spenders < http://reason.com/news/show/133772.html  >Jun 01 19:18
neighborleeyeah ca has problems ,,least of all that LOLJun 01 19:18
schestowitzIs that your dog?Jun 01 19:18
neighborleeLOL yesJun 01 19:19
neighborleeaint she CUTE ;0-Jun 01 19:19
neighborleehaJun 01 19:19
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schestowitz"Intellectual Property Minister David Lammy..." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8073068.stm WTF? So now they have politicians whose title is propaganda too?Jun 01 19:22
schestowitzI had a dog like this... "Billie"Jun 01 19:22
schestowitzShe dies from rat poisonJun 01 19:22
schestowitz*iedJun 01 19:22
neighborleeoh godJun 01 19:22
schestowitzNo God.Jun 01 19:22
schestowitz :-)Jun 01 19:22
neighborleesorry to hear tahtJun 01 19:22
schestowitzBad luck, that's all..Jun 01 19:23
neighborleeim sure it happens more than we'd like to know.Jun 01 19:23
neighborleeneed to restart, b rbJun 01 19:25
neighborlee'ish ;)Jun 01 19:25
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schestowitzOur articles are being nicked again: http://www.ozelwebtasarim.com/index.php/web-haberleri/13203-the-gnulinux-hostile-mscosconf-event-misuses-the-open-source-brandJun 01 19:36
schestowitzit's in Google News, so I guess the exposure can't be bad for the messageJun 01 19:36
trmancowhois bingsucks.com ||  Domain Name: BINGSUCKS.COMJun 01 19:38
trmanco   Registrar: MARKMONITOR INC.Jun 01 19:38
trmanco   Whois Server: whois.markmonitor.comJun 01 19:38
trmanco   Referral URL: http://www.markmonitor.comJun 01 19:38
trmanco   Name Server: NS1.MSFT.NETJun 01 19:38
trmanco   Name Server: NS2.MSFT.NETJun 01 19:38
trmanco   Name Server: NS3.MSFT.NETJun 01 19:38
trmanco   Name Server: NS4.MSFT.NETJun 01 19:38
trmanco   Name Server: NS5.MSFT.NETJun 01 19:38
trmancoomfgJun 01 19:38
schestowitzWhat's that?Jun 01 19:40
schestowitzMSFT.NETJun 01 19:40
schestowitzhttp://msft.net/Jun 01 19:40
schestowitzOops! This link appears to be broken.Jun 01 19:40
trmancooopsJun 01 19:41
trmancoohJun 01 19:41
trmancothose are microsofts nameserversJun 01 19:41
trmancois has moreJun 01 19:42
trmancoAdministrative Contact:Jun 01 19:42
trmanco        Domain AdministratorJun 01 19:42
trmanco        Microsoft CorporationJun 01 19:42
trmanco        One Microsoft WayJun 01 19:42
trmanco         Redmond WA 98052Jun 01 19:42
trmanco        USJun 01 19:42
trmanco        domains@microsoft.com +1.4258828080 Fax: +1.4259367329Jun 01 19:42
trmanco    Technical Contact, Zone Contact:Jun 01 19:42
trmanco        MSN HostmasterJun 01 19:42
trmanco        Microsoft CorporationJun 01 19:42
trmanco        One Microsoft WayJun 01 19:42
trmanco         Redmond WA 98052Jun 01 19:42
trmanco        USJun 01 19:42
trmanco        msnhst@microsoft.com +1.4258828080 Fax: +1.4259367329Jun 01 19:42
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schestowitzThanks.Jun 01 19:47
trmancogo ahead and confirm it, do a whois from your consoleJun 01 19:51
schestowitzTypical Microsoft: Bing.com no gentlemen when you run Opera web browser < http://arebentisch.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/bing-com-no-gentlemen-when-you-run-opera-web-browser/ >Jun 01 19:56
schestowitzBing has been smoking the bongJun 01 19:56
schestowitztrmanco: no need. I will post about it tonightJun 01 19:56
schestowitzI'll just post some news to COLA in a mo'Jun 01 19:56
schestowitzI made no posts to BN todayJun 01 19:57
schestowitzDid over 30 over the weekend ;-)Jun 01 19:57
schestowitzDebate about LSB are very hot today: http://www.raiden.net/articles/oh_no__linux_standardization_is_the_end_of_the_world__not/ Oh no! Linux standardization is the end of the world!! Not!Jun 01 20:02
schestowitzApple and Microsoft shareholder uses old blog posts to curse FOSS: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133719Jun 01 20:05
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trmancookJun 01 20:31
trmancogrr, my fan is noisyJun 01 20:31
trmanco30ºC here todayJun 01 20:32
trmancothe last 2 days were even worseJun 01 20:32
MinceRyou mean 30°C? :>Jun 01 20:46
trmancowhat's the differenceJun 01 20:53
trmancoº meh, cant find the charJun 01 20:54
trmancothat*Jun 01 20:54
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mtnd3wHello.Jun 01 20:54
trmancopffJun 01 20:58
trmancotesting bing0Jun 01 20:58
trmancohiJun 01 20:58
trmancoAFAICSJun 01 21:00
trmancoit's the same live crap, with some lipstickJun 01 21:00
schestowitzHot here tooJun 01 21:06
schestowitzAlmost 30 degree centigradeJun 01 21:07
MinceR'º' is an ordinal indicator :>Jun 01 21:11
mtnd3wguys, vote this idea: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/20016/Jun 01 21:11
mtnd3wvote down mono/bansheeJun 01 21:11
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trmancoMinceR, yeah, but I can't find the other oneJun 01 21:16
MinceRi typed it with compose,o,oJun 01 21:17
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_Hicham_Hi Mr Schestowitz!Jun 01 21:22
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schestowitzPeople keep trying to associate Darwin with World Wars!@@$$ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB4BWPeyMpQ&NR=1Jun 01 21:46
_Goblinhi, im backJun 01 21:49
_GoblinDaemonFC is a little quiet.Jun 01 21:50
trmancoSavannah was downJun 01 21:50
_Goblinjust had the most silly argument with a chap who works at Blockbuster and labels MACos as "trash"Jun 01 21:52
_Goblinof course he thinks Vista and Zune are great.Jun 01 21:53
_Goblinand as you would expect, he's allegedly tried Linux and doesnt like it.Jun 01 21:54
MinceRmacos is trashJun 01 21:54
_Goblingrrr!Jun 01 21:54
_Goblin;)Jun 01 21:54
MinceRwell, except for the parts they've ripped off FLOSS projects.Jun 01 21:55
MinceRbut they've managed to build trash out of them.Jun 01 21:55
_Goblineven I don't think Vista is "trash" as it offers some functionality...Jun 01 21:55
_Goblinnot much thoughJun 01 21:55
_GoblinI think when people declare an OS are merely "trash" it cheapens the whole alternative to Microsoft debate...Jun 01 21:56
_Goblinafterall, MACos can't be too trashy since their profits from last quarter would suggest that there are many stupid people.Jun 01 21:57
_Goblinhorses for courses...Jun 01 21:57
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_GoblinI don't particularly have a problem with Vista, its merely the methods used to pimp it.  If it was simply another option out there, it wouldn't be a problem, afterall Im sure we are all advocates of freedom of choice.Jun 01 21:59
_GoblinVista could then be presented on a level playing field with Linux...Jun 01 22:00
schestowitzAlistar McGrath made a career by using other people's names and slamming them in book titles. Sad, very sad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBRKY8Qx9YQ&feature=channelJun 01 22:00
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schestowitzJust posted some daily linksJun 01 22:01
schestowitzI'll do a quick marathon of poatsJun 01 22:01
schestowitz*stsJun 01 22:01
MinceR_Goblin: there are many stupid people indeed.Jun 01 22:03
MinceRis that news? :>Jun 01 22:03
_GoblinNot really, only that it highlights why maybe MS has been allowed to rule the roost for so long.Jun 01 22:04
_Goblinword of mouth by people who, for whatever reason buy into the myth.Jun 01 22:04
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_Goblinthe chap was arguing a point with no justification.  I wonder how many MS supporters actually know why they support the products?Jun 01 22:06
_GoblinI think you can blame the marketing tactics that sadly some people these days still buy into (and that goes for any advert in my book)Jun 01 22:07
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taconesoftpedia: Application of the Month: Rhythmbox (ironic, uh ?)Jun 01 22:08
trmancoU.S. Army servers breached by Turkish hackers: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-307208.htmlJun 01 22:11
trmanco"Investigators believe an SQL injection attack was used to exploit a vulnerability in Microsoft's SQL Server database in order to gain access to the servers. "Jun 01 22:11
trmancohahaJun 01 22:11
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*schestowitz done watching.. Why We Believe in Gods - Andy Thomson - American Atheists < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg >Jun 01 22:15
schestowitztrmanco: see yesterday's post about the Turkish hackJun 01 22:15
trmancoah, so you already covered itJun 01 22:16
schestowitztrmanco: yes, see recent postsJun 01 22:40
schestowitzMany good ones, IMHOJun 01 22:40
trmancookJun 01 22:41
schestowitzGood one meaning that the material reference is importantJun 01 22:41
schestowitzI only rely on the sourcesJun 01 22:41
schestowitzMicrosoft-Influenced Net Applications Won’t Share Its Data < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/net-applications-secretive-insistence/ >Jun 01 22:41
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taconeomfgJun 01 22:46
taconewhat's this ? http://lwn.net/Articles/333825/Jun 01 22:46
trmancoschestowitz, the site is still slowJun 01 22:47
taconeschestowitz: saw my link ?Jun 01 22:48
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schestowitzyes, we have aggressive firewallsJun 01 23:02
schestowitztacone: I saw it this mornignJun 01 23:02
schestowitzI was gonna write about it. I told RMS tooJun 01 23:03
mtnd3wtacone just read that, wow.Jun 01 23:05
schestowitztrmanco: hold on..Jun 01 23:06
schestowitzMaybe there's a fixJun 01 23:06
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taconethe fix is writing microsoft is like a good daddyJun 01 23:07
mtnd3w"Avoiding DRM is not something that has gotten onto the radar of most consumers, but the content providers are doing their best to raise its visibility."Jun 01 23:07
taconethen the dos will suddenly stop.Jun 01 23:07
mtnd3wthis is so true, consumers most of the time argue for the companiesJun 01 23:08
taconehttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3604/3585051300_d23a37a32e_o.pngJun 01 23:09
taconelol the first resultJun 01 23:13
taconehttp://www.michaelhorowitz.com/Linux.vs.Windows.htmlJun 01 23:13
taconeSwitching to a new layout would be a major disruption and thus have to pay back in a major way. I don't think desktop versions of Linux will pay back enough to encourage people to switch.Jun 01 23:14
taconethe second.. http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htmJun 01 23:14
taconezomfgJun 01 23:14
schestowitzOOXML BRM Convenor (Alex Brown) Joins the Pro-Mirosoft Wikipedia Spinners < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/standards-consortia-cronyism-odf/ >Jun 01 23:18
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Papa_ChangoHey folks, I was just curious if there are still DOS attacks on BN? the past week has varied between slow (not so much the main page but reachies the stories) and not working .. i can access the links now but not the articlesJun 01 23:22
schestowitzYeah, we have this issueJun 01 23:28
schestowitzFirewalls against DDoSJun 01 23:28
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schestowitzI've just tested itJun 01 23:40
schestowitzIt's indeed pretty poorJun 01 23:41
taconehttp://www.stefanoforenza.com/the-decision-engine/Jun 01 23:41
schestowitzNot responsive or rejectedJun 01 23:41
schestowitzFalse positivesJun 01 23:41
schestowitztacone: thanks, I'll write about it nowJun 01 23:42
taconeuhm, don't know if it's a serious enough topicJun 01 23:43
taconelolJun 01 23:43
schestowitz“Microsoft Cannot be Trusted!” < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/good-luck-developing-for-windows/ >Jun 01 23:52
schestowitztacone: part of a much bigger postJun 01 23:52
schestowitzI'll do it nowJun 01 23:52
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