| schestowitz | Some believe in polygods | Jun 24 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | "polytheists"? | Jun 24 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Is that a word? | Jun 24 00:00 |
| _Hicham_1 | the three major religions are basically the same | Jun 24 00:00 |
| _Hicham_1 | theologists know that very well | Jun 24 00:00 |
| _Hicham_1 | even in the same religion, there are some differences | Jun 24 00:00 |
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| schestowitz | Three main? | Jun 24 00:01 |
| schestowitz | But wait. In terms of population size? | Jun 24 00:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rambus Fiasco Shows the Issue with patent Ambush (Like OOXML and Mono) http://ping.fm/Hw1uS | Jun 24 00:02 | |
| schestowitz | Truth must never be determined by toss coin or votes either | Jun 24 00:02 |
| schestowitz | *Coin toss | Jun 24 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft: most people 'choose' Windows (forced to buy it with a PC), so Windows must be best | Jun 24 00:03 |
| schestowitz | Slippery slopes of PR scum | Jun 24 00:04 |
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| ugufjhfj | Windrop | Jun 24 00:07 |
| ugufjhfj | `-_ | Jun 24 00:07 |
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| schestowitz | Dropdown box | Jun 24 00:13 |
| yuhong | Yep, even though Dell is offering Linux, it is obscure enough that a fair comparison still cannot be mode. | Jun 24 00:26 |
| yuhong | A fair comparison only can be made if Dell offer Linux options right along Windows options on almost all their PCs. | Jun 24 00:27 |
| yuhong | I personally wish for the day when all the major OEMs do this anyways. | Jun 24 00:29 |
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| ugufjhfj | dell offer only one linux laptop in ca :/ | Jun 24 00:43 |
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| _Hicham_ | Mr schestowitz | Jun 24 00:51 |
| _Hicham_ | alis El Fantastico | Jun 24 00:51 |
| _Hicham_ | *alias | Jun 24 00:51 |
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| *schestowitz learns about .Nietzsche.. | Jun 24 01:27 | |
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| schestowitz | gn | Jun 24 01:50 |
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| wut5 | hi | Jun 24 04:05 |
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| Hmmm, catching up on the day's chat. Hi, jono. Anything Roy has to say has mostly been said. He's published a lot, you know. | Jun 24 04:17 | |
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| As for him taking responsibility for the sins of the world, well, that's a lot of you to ask him. | Jun 24 04:17 | |
| Roy does a lot of good research and reporting. I agree with a lot of what he has to say and I'm glad he does it. | Jun 24 04:17 | |
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| Please don't try the usual, "You are hurting the community" troll. Be specific about what you disagree with. You will be wrong, but you won't waste as much time or emotional energy. | Jun 24 04:19 | |
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| aka_real123 | ? | Jun 24 04:46 |
| hexx | ? | Jun 24 04:47 |
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| Cehdi | Hi | Jun 24 07:01 |
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| asdfg4 | Your website is poorly designed | Jun 24 07:35 |
| asdfg4 | Which is only outdone by your poorly chosen name | Jun 24 07:35 |
| asdfg4 | This blog must carry a lot of clout | Jun 24 07:35 |
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| kentma | a sort of drive-by trolling there. | Jun 24 07:38 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Bilski patent application is included here in the joint appendix: http://bit.ly/16gwyt | Jun 24 08:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Potential Future Replacement for F-Spot Enters Ubuntu http://ping.fm/R7i3D | Jun 24 08:52 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Bilski Cert petition: http://bit.ly/azoM4 | Jun 24 08:57 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Still working on "Week with Windows" and have now heavily modified UbuntuSE. Much better/faster! Renamed it to Deep Red Linux! | Jun 24 09:07 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] http://twitpic.com/89mbo - My little distro. A mixture of Heron/SE its called Deep Red Linux! | Jun 24 09:12 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Forcibly Turns Washington State University Students to Customers < http://ping.fm/5nrI8 > | Jun 24 09:22 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The More Aggressive They Get, the Most Troubled They Are < http://ping.fm/0veEv > | Jun 24 09:52 | |
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| oiaohm | http://www.thevarguy.com/2009/06/23/red-hat-alfresco-attack-microsoft-sharepoint/ | Jun 24 10:20 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: attack? | Jun 24 10:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Federal Trade Commission May Crack Down on Microsoft’s Bribery of Bloggers < http://ping.fm/JYOkt > | Jun 24 10:32 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] SoftwareAG still pushing swpat: "lack of political support including an underdeveloped European software patent system": http://bit.ly/EpOt6 | Jun 24 10:47 | |
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| ThistleWeb | I wonder how many non-tech minded peeps think "software" is cushions, pillows, quilts etc | Jun 24 10:52 |
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| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: I doubt they know what "ware" means | Jun 24 10:56 |
| schestowitz | Oh, but I guess it can be read as "Wear" | Jun 24 10:56 |
| ThistleWeb | yep, some sort of wolf maybe | Jun 24 10:56 |
| schestowitz | Soft weat | Jun 24 10:56 |
| schestowitz | Soft wear | Jun 24 10:56 |
| schestowitz | MS span this a little, making tshirts that it calls soft wear | Jun 24 10:57 |
| ThistleWeb | when spelling standards go down, there's an inevitable increase in oppertunitires for misunderstandings, either intentional or accidental | Jun 24 10:57 |
| schestowitz | http://www.microsoft.com/windows/softwearbymicrosoft/ | Jun 24 10:57 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's new business model | Jun 24 10:57 |
| schestowitz | Clothing shop | Jun 24 10:57 |
| schestowitz | With a donate/paypal button at the top | Jun 24 10:57 |
| ThistleWeb | well, their t-shirts have ot be more reliable than their software, or do they expect people to stop every few hours, take it off and put it back on? | Jun 24 10:58 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: red-hat and alfresco are teaming up schestowitz. | Jun 24 11:00 |
| ThistleWeb | a company the world's public have come to associate as one of the richest on the planet, now asking for donations via paypal shows just how far they've fallen. I did read todays post about that before you post it | Jun 24 11:05 |
| ThistleWeb | to me, donations via paypal are for small independant sites which are part time bloggers etc | Jun 24 11:06 |
| ThistleWeb | when you get to corporation status, your business model should fund you without that | Jun 24 11:06 |
| ThistleWeb | if you've been at the level of having mountains of cash to burn for decades before paypal existed, you shouldn't have ever gotten a paypal account, let alone be using it | Jun 24 11:07 |
| ThistleWeb | but when you built your company with the shame module disabled it's hardly a surprise | Jun 24 11:08 |
| oiaohm | The funny part about all this is Linux is only now starting to shape up. | Jun 24 11:08 |
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| marshi | interesting... | Jun 24 11:10 |
| ThistleWeb | it can't be only me who associates "donate via paypal" as for sites where they give away their time / skills / projects for free and need some help to cover costs. Methinks that button alone will do Microsoft more damage in visitor perception of the brand than it will make | Jun 24 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Look at MS current location ThistleWeb | Jun 24 11:13 |
| oiaohm | Hardware makers are doing everything they can not to have to pay for MS software. | Jun 24 11:13 |
| oiaohm | It could get funny MS might be forced down the track to ask for donations to stay afloat. | Jun 24 11:14 |
| ThistleWeb | it's brand perception we're talking about, asking for donations puts them into a new league | Jun 24 11:15 |
| ThistleWeb | they can't claim to be a world leader when they are asking for handouts from the public | Jun 24 11:15 |
| oiaohm | http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/06/intel-and-nokia-join-forces-fo.html Things like this are also not helping MS footing | Jun 24 11:16 |
| ThistleWeb | they cant claim to be a company others should follow in making profits if they are asking for handouts from the public | Jun 24 11:16 |
| ThistleWeb | the other side, is that will anyone donate to Microsoft? | Jun 24 11:17 |
| ThistleWeb | people associate them with having mountains of cash | Jun 24 11:17 |
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| ThistleWeb | giving them more, when you're not buying one of their expensive pieces of paper with a generated number on it is not something many would do | Jun 24 11:18 |
| oiaohm | MS mixed something important up in there history. | Jun 24 11:19 |
| ThistleWeb | their licencing model is a licence to print money, they could at least give away their t-shirts to help promote the brand; but then....if you have all the behind the scenes stuff sewn up that you dont have to compete for business | Jun 24 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Software is only minorly important. Without hardware software is worthless. | Jun 24 11:19 |
| oiaohm | The idea that software licenses are a means to print money has been there mistake. | Jun 24 11:20 |
| oiaohm | That only works as long as the hardware markers don't rebel. | Jun 24 11:20 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: there is no such button | Jun 24 11:20 |
| schestowitz | I was joking | Jun 24 11:21 |
| schestowitz | But Microsoft's financial pains withstanding. | Jun 24 11:21 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: damn, that'll teach me to click the link eh? | Jun 24 11:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Federal Trade Commission May Crack Down on Microsoft’s Bribery of Bloggers < http://ping.fm/koPa3 > | Jun 24 11:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[fsmag] Nokia first released a crippled phone N800 (GTK) without GSM, then TrollTech (QT), now is on Maemo again http://is.gd/1bKK6 #freesoftware ? | Jun 24 11:22 | |
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| ThistleWeb | I wonder if you could set yourself up as a M$ friendly blogger, get a free laptop with Windows 7 to say nice things, but instead expose the story for what it is, wipe the laptop, put Linux on it and keep it. I wonder if Microsoft would seek legal recourse to get their bribe back? | Jun 24 11:23 |
| oiaohm | Intel is waking up they are in for the fight of there lives. | Jun 24 11:23 |
| oiaohm | I expect to see intel enter the device market directly. | Jun 24 11:24 |
| oiaohm | Look closer you will find MS still techincally owns the laptop bribes ThistleWeb. | Jun 24 11:27 |
| ThistleWeb | aww | Jun 24 11:28 |
| ThistleWeb | I guess they thought of that one eh? | Jun 24 11:28 |
| schestowitz | Oracle is down | Jun 24 11:28 |
| oiaohm | Yep ThistleWeb | Jun 24 11:29 |
| ThistleWeb | :( | Jun 24 11:29 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, they 'own' it | Jun 24 11:29 |
| schestowitz | They say you can pass it back at your leisure | Jun 24 11:29 |
| ThistleWeb | I could have done with a new laptop too, specially if it's free | Jun 24 11:29 |
| schestowitz | Yuck. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/23/zoho_office_for_microsoft_sharepoint/ (Web-based Zoho jumps into bed with Microsoft Sharepoint) | Jun 24 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Zoho could wake up in bed without a head | Jun 24 11:30 |
| ThistleWeb | hey, if you need to agree to a contract with conditions, then that's proof you could expose | Jun 24 11:30 |
| schestowitz | No, it's implicit | Jun 24 11:31 |
| schestowitz | They can the potential receivers who don't like Microsoft | Jun 24 11:31 |
| schestowitz | It's a screening process. Waggener is spying on and profiling reprorters and bloggers. | Jun 24 11:31 |
| ThistleWeb | I guess they are well practiced at this stuff | Jun 24 11:32 |
| schestowitz | FTC should crack down on Edelman, Waggener, etc. | Jun 24 11:32 |
| schestowitz | Going after the bloggers is harder | Jun 24 11:32 |
| schestowitz | They need to target the givers of the bribes | Jun 24 11:32 |
| schestowitz | Not just the receivers | Jun 24 11:32 |
| oiaohm | MS uses a lot of what I would call under handed PR companies. | Jun 24 11:35 |
| oiaohm | There are two kinda of PR companies. One that works to truly works to improve you public releations. Under handed basically just to makes your complainers disappear under a cloud of noise. | Jun 24 11:36 |
| oiaohm | The underhanded don't long term improve you public releations. | Jun 24 11:36 |
| ThistleWeb | oiaohm: only when the shit hits the fan | Jun 24 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Note long term. | Jun 24 11:37 |
| ThistleWeb | while they can work in secret, it's a winning strategy, even if it is underhanded and illegal | Jun 24 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Sooner or latter the shit will hit the fan. | Jun 24 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Its nothing more than short term method. | Jun 24 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Cisco is a example of a company that does use only the good kind of PR. The result is people trust you and your products. Knowing if something goes wrong you will be there to help. | Jun 24 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft lack of public trust in them is partly caused by there PR treatment. | Jun 24 11:40 |
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| pratnell | whats is some MS bad PR ? | Jun 24 11:42 |
| oiaohm | The bad PR methord is really like trying to use a 100 metre sprinter to win againt 20 runners in a 20 km race. | Jun 24 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Go read up on Edelman, Waggener PR handling method pratnell | Jun 24 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Basically running internet searches for articals against MS then sending staff in to send counter messages and under mine the the person who said the damaging infromation about MS. pratnell | Jun 24 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Not take finding out about the problem then going back to MS and working out how to address problem. | Jun 24 11:44 |
| oiaohm | That is bad PR management. That leads to distrust. | Jun 24 11:45 |
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| pratnell | dan edelman ? australian PR company ? | Jun 24 11:47 |
| oiaohm | I need MS press contacts page. Currently downloading something I need fast so cannot get at it. I don't think the australian company. | Jun 24 11:50 |
| pratnell | http://www.edelman.com.au/ | Jun 24 11:50 |
| pratnell | does not matter, I was just looking for an example to support your claim. | Jun 24 11:51 |
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| oiaohm | Waggener even provides a video detailing the method they will use to do PR control pratnell | Jun 24 11:52 |
| pratnell | is that where he say they employ people to post comments to articles ? | Jun 24 11:54 |
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| oiaohm | Posting comments to articles is not alone what makes it bad. Its what is being posted. Assisting people around problems don't generate bad. Sending people with the pure idea of undermining will generate bad. | Jun 24 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Also information about problems collected by PR people needs to feed up to developers. This is a problem with a lot of PR firms they are breaking the feedback loop from users to developers. | Jun 24 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Edelman Seattle its a different edelman | Jun 24 12:02 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: I've just posted a complaint | Jun 24 12:07 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: about what or who? | Jun 24 12:07 |
| schestowitz | See blog | Jun 24 12:07 |
| ThistleWeb | gotcha | Jun 24 12:09 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: no, it's a worldwide network | Jun 24 12:09 |
| schestowitz | See their Web site | Jun 24 12:09 |
| schestowitz | They are all over the place | Jun 24 12:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Edelman and Waggener Edstrom Reported to the FTC < http://ping.fm/6fEBK > | Jun 24 12:12 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Betrays American Workers and Rewards Irish Workers for Tax Haven < http://ping.fm/iDTHZ > | Jun 24 12:12 | |
| schestowitz | Why Are Newspaper Subscribers Angry Over Online-Only Content? < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090623/0250335321.shtml > | Jun 24 12:14 |
| oiaohm | http://waggeneredstrom.com/nn/demo/index.html << Good watch pratnell. There example of case of bad PR response is completely the wrong responce. You should not need to throw tones of resources at it. | Jun 24 12:14 |
| oiaohm | If you do you are more often than not doing something wrong and not addressing the problem that causes the negitive PR in the first place. | Jun 24 12:15 |
| schestowitz | "Not to get into the politics of it all, what is quite fascinating is the news that the photo that many individuals and news sources are using for Soltani isn't just of a different Neda Soltani, but it's due to confusion over how Facebook works (found via Mathew Ingram). " http://techdirt.com/articles/20090623/1153075328.shtml | Jun 24 12:15 |
| schestowitz | pratnell: see http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/08/perception-management-web-agents/ | Jun 24 12:16 |
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| oiaohm | Basically waggeneredstroms PR responce is profitable for waggeneredstroms looks good for the client short term. Long term client suffers. | Jun 24 12:21 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: indeed | Jun 24 12:22 |
| schestowitz | You've actually helped me find out some of the smoking guns there. | Jun 24 12:22 |
| schestowitz | BN comes up quite high when searching googling) W-E, but I don't expect the same from BING. people need to get familiar with what these chaps hide. | Jun 24 12:23 |
| schestowitz | Microsofters keep teasing me: "jlundstocholmSo ... Doug bought me a sandwich for lunch (€5,-) ... I am so bought and paid for. @schestowitz, knock yourself out ... #sc34" https://twitter.com/jlundstocholm/status/2308373658 | Jun 24 12:24 |
| oiaohm | Problem is once client trust with a company is broken it is extreamly hard to repair. | Jun 24 12:24 |
| oiaohm | Bad PR methods destory client trust with company. | Jun 24 12:25 |
| schestowitz | But do reporters know? | Jun 24 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Best bad PR method of MS is this is the most secure OS ever. | Jun 24 12:26 |
| schestowitz | I doubt many even know what W-E *IS*. | Jun 24 12:26 |
| schestowitz | W-E is very low-profile, visibility wise | Jun 24 12:26 |
| schestowitz | I only knew about them about 2 years ago when a mate mentioned them. It's not something you'd see in the news | Jun 24 12:26 |
| oiaohm | They should if they read MS press contacts. | Jun 24 12:26 |
| schestowitz | BTW, Ballmer's wife is from W-E | Jun 24 12:26 |
| schestowitz | Lack of ethics stays in the family :-D | Jun 24 12:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] German Court Rules Students Can Rate Teachers Online < http://ping.fm/OgCNr > Just because teachers dislike it doesn't make it illegal. | Jun 24 12:27 | |
| oiaohm | Thinking they are plasted all over it. | Jun 24 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Always pays to know who you are dealing with. | Jun 24 12:27 |
| schestowitz | What /else/ can be done to stifle guerrilla marketing? | Jun 24 12:27 |
| pratnell | dont do it, or dont buy the product. | Jun 24 12:29 |
| schestowitz | Mat Jo Foley is a lost cause | Jun 24 12:29 |
| schestowitz | She became MS PR | Jun 24 12:29 |
| oiaohm | Short term these methods cause people to buy product pratnell | Jun 24 12:30 |
| schestowitz | But still writing from ZDNet, just parroting MS PR | Jun 24 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Long term people get to know the defects anyhow from using the products so develop distrust for company. | Jun 24 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Making it harder and harder to sell product. | Jun 24 12:31 |
| oiaohm | Forcing more and more extream advertisng to keep sales. | Jun 24 12:31 |
| ThistleWeb | oiaohm: only when customers who see those defects also see alternate choices in stores | Jun 24 12:31 |
| oiaohm | Its a cycle do doom a company. | Jun 24 12:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What /else/ can be done to stifle guerrilla marketing? Exposing it is one thing, but actually stopping it is another. | Jun 24 12:32 | |
| schestowitz | Let's see if anyone replies on twitter | Jun 24 12:32 |
| schestowitz | The W-E bots there must be noticing | Jun 24 12:32 |
| oiaohm | ThistleWeb: yep that is why MS has to crush anyone that could be choice. | Jun 24 12:32 |
| schestowitz | MS uses Twitter to spy on damaging posts quickly. They said so. | Jun 24 12:32 |
| ThistleWeb | baiting them, lol | Jun 24 12:32 |
| oiaohm | Because they have PR doomed themselves. | Jun 24 12:32 |
| pratnell | how can you stop marketing ? you cant unless you want to censor | Jun 24 12:32 |
| schestowitz | There are rules | Jun 24 12:33 |
| schestowitz | Ethical guidelines and all. | Jun 24 12:33 |
| oiaohm | Take orcale they do bugger all marketing. | Jun 24 12:33 |
| ThistleWeb | marketing is one thing, but there's also something called "truth in advertising" | Jun 24 12:33 |
| oiaohm | People trust them so come to them for products. | Jun 24 12:33 |
| pratnell | Yes, false advertising, and ethical guidelines that you cannt break. | Jun 24 12:33 |
| oiaohm | Trust is one of your most powerful marketing tools. | Jun 24 12:34 |
| oiaohm | If you are completely untrusted by everyone you could spend a unlimited amount of money on marketing and still sell nothing. | Jun 24 12:34 |
| fewa | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090621124054133 | Jun 24 12:34 |
| fewa | "Farce, indeed. But no one is laughing now. We are all thinking about this woman and what happens now to her life. It rivals Les Miserables." | Jun 24 12:35 |
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| fewa | Good comparison | Jun 24 12:35 |
| pratnell | most people look at advertising, and take it for what it is, and buy or not the product based on past experience and offered features, | Jun 24 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Not true pratnell | Jun 24 12:35 |
| hjiuo | so i herd you like to boycott novell so i used this novell irc server so you could boycott while you boycott | Jun 24 12:36 |
| oiaohm | If people have been burnt by a product they will try other options. | Jun 24 12:36 |
| ThistleWeb | as Douglas Adams said "if you want to know about BMW and what it's like to own one, the last place you visit is BMW's site as it's just an online version of a sales brochure" | Jun 24 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Even avoid past brands they hae been burnt with pratnell | Jun 24 12:36 |
| fewa | solicitation with deceit | Jun 24 12:37 |
| pratnell | yes, thats right, people base their future purchases based on experiences from previous purchases, AND advertised products, based on past experience with the company. | Jun 24 12:37 |
| oiaohm | But there is a factor people ask there friends. | Jun 24 12:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-06-23-014-39-IN-MS-SW-0002 | Jun 24 12:38 |
| oiaohm | And if there friends don't trust a brand they are less likely to touch that brand. pratnell | Jun 24 12:38 |
| schestowitz | Hi, hjiuo | Jun 24 12:38 |
| ThistleWeb | the more Microsoft can get people blurring the concepts PC / Windows etc the more they can get people believing that ALL PCs will have the same issues they face with viruses etc | Jun 24 12:38 |
| oiaohm | This is how destroying trust can turn into a cancer. | Jun 24 12:38 |
| pratnell | if a company said in teh past it will deliver a feature, and it has in the product you use, if they say they will have a new feature in their next product, you will probably trust they will, apart from it being illegal to false advertise | Jun 24 12:39 |
| ThistleWeb | coupled with ensuring peeps dont see any other choice, makes them repeat buyers | Jun 24 12:39 |
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| pratnell | it can and often does go both ways | Jun 24 12:39 |
| ThistleWeb | in the case of OEM windows, they buy a new PC and they have to buy Windows | Jun 24 12:39 |
| pratnell | companies can generate "good will" or "bad will", based on their actions. | Jun 24 12:39 |
| oiaohm | PR controlled by the wrong people can generate bad will quicky. | Jun 24 12:40 |
| pratnell | yes, its a common statement "bad news travels quickly". | Jun 24 12:40 |
| ThistleWeb | "a lie has gotten halfway round the world by the time truth gets it's boots on" - Terry Pratchett | Jun 24 12:41 |
| oiaohm | Don't forget there is no such thing as bad news to a good PR firm. | Jun 24 12:41 |
| oiaohm | bad news is still advertising. | Jun 24 12:41 |
| oiaohm | As long as you address problem and make people happy it turns in good will. | Jun 24 12:42 |
| schestowitz | I didn't know Wallen was writing for this site: The different ways to execute a Linux application < http://www.ghacks.net/2009/06/22/the-different-ways-to-execute-a-linux-application/ > | Jun 24 12:42 |
| ThistleWeb | or make people believe you've addressed it | Jun 24 12:42 |
| pratnell | thats right because after time people will continue to remember the name but forget whether attached good or bad opinions on them. | Jun 24 12:42 |
| oiaohm | Make people believe you have addressed it can come back and bite ThistleWeb. | Jun 24 12:43 |
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| ThistleWeb | pratnell: yep Madoff has a future | Jun 24 12:43 |
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| ThistleWeb | peeps will remember the name after the stink has calmed down, so he'll be a trader in prison | Jun 24 12:43 |
| schestowitz | I guess even Unabomber got fame after his arrest | Jun 24 12:43 |
| pratnell | some names are extreems and they dont get that benefit, | Jun 24 12:43 |
| schestowitz | Infamy morelike, but people read his words | Jun 24 12:43 |
| pratnell | hitler, madoff, enron | Jun 24 12:44 |
| schestowitz | How about Gary McKinnon? | Jun 24 12:44 |
| schestowitz | Or the so-called "Pirate" Tanya | Jun 24 12:44 |
| oiaohm | The addressing the problems people are having is what lot of bad PR firms miss. | Jun 24 12:44 |
| schestowitz | To this days, guess who is the most sought after hacker? | Jun 24 12:45 |
| schestowitz | Mitnick | Jun 24 12:45 |
| schestowitz | pratnell: weird list there. | Jun 24 12:45 |
| schestowitz | Different offenses | Jun 24 12:45 |
| pratnell | by no means complete, | Jun 24 12:45 |
| schestowitz | Linux à la française: First Alpha from Mandriva Linux 2010 < http://www.linux-magazine.com/online/news/linux_a_la_francaise_first_alpha_from_mandriva_linux_2010/ > | Jun 24 12:47 |
| ThistleWeb | one day I'll get back round to giving Mandriva a fresh look, it's been a while | Jun 24 12:47 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/06/23/cisco.wrt160nl.router/ (Cisco offers Linksys 802.11n router with Linux) | Jun 24 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Taht ways to run a Linux application missed full path and using the loader on non executable bits. | Jun 24 12:48 |
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| ThistleWeb | I think I've grown too attached to .deb distros so Mandriva will have to be DAMN good to sway me | Jun 24 12:48 |
| *schestowitz uses MAndriva ATM and loves it | Jun 24 12:49 | |
| ThistleWeb | first Linux I saw was Mandrake | Jun 24 12:49 |
| ThistleWeb | first Linux that worked with my hardware was PCLinuxOS2007 which is Mandriva as it should be | Jun 24 12:49 |
| ThistleWeb | since then though I've grown out of KDE 3.5 | Jun 24 12:50 |
| ThistleWeb | KDE 4 looks very nice though | Jun 24 12:50 |
| oiaohm | I am still using kde 3.5 | Jun 24 12:53 |
| ThistleWeb | Mandriva went through a few versions of being very average though before getting back on the quality | Jun 24 12:53 |
| ThistleWeb | I think it may have been during that time I last used it and wasn't all that impressed | Jun 24 12:54 |
| schestowitz | African women with HIV 'coerced into sterilisation' < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/22/africa-hiv-positive-women-sterilisation > | Jun 24 12:54 |
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| schestowitz | http://seekingalpha.com/article/144418-expect-tech-mergers-to-increase?source=yahoo "If IBM doesn’t snap-up RHT, someone else will." | Jun 24 12:56 |
| schestowitz | IBM was going to buy SUNW/JAVA | Jun 24 12:57 |
| schestowitz | So it's possible that IBM will but RHT at some satge | Jun 24 12:57 |
| pratnell | is RHT for sale ? | Jun 24 12:58 |
| oiaohm | Not at this stage. | Jun 24 12:58 |
| oiaohm | For some reason people thinks the likes of IBM would want to buy it. | Jun 24 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Sun was a target because it held a lot fo key tech. | Jun 24 12:59 |
| oiaohm | List the key tech RHT holds. | Jun 24 12:59 |
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| oiaohm | IBM would be better of working out how to aquire a dieing MS than waste money aquiring RHT. | Jun 24 13:00 |
| pratnell | the days of "big blue" are long gone. | Jun 24 13:01 |
| oiaohm | IBM is not what you call small either. | Jun 24 13:02 |
| pratnell | compared to what they used to be they are. | Jun 24 13:02 |
| oiaohm | None of us can say for sure that IBM will not get big again. | Jun 24 13:03 |
| pratnell | thats true, we cant tell the future, but we dont know what has allready happened. SUN was very big too, | Jun 24 13:04 |
| pratnell | and Novell had the market leading network OS. | Jun 24 13:04 |
| pratnell | things change. | Jun 24 13:04 |
| schestowitz | 12k workers | Jun 24 13:07 |
| ThistleWeb | 12k huh? not bad, after all who'd need any more than 64k? | Jun 24 13:08 |
| schestowitz | MS has about 90k | Jun 24 13:09 |
| schestowitz | But is has many partners in the ecosystem | Jun 24 13:09 |
| pratnell | in the US | Jun 24 13:09 |
| schestowitz | Gold Centified and alll | Jun 24 13:09 |
| ThistleWeb | oh, we're talking employees? | Jun 24 13:09 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Jun 24 13:09 |
| oiaohm | IBM stablised there fall. | Jun 24 13:11 |
| oiaohm | Novell and Sun both failed to. | Jun 24 13:11 |
| pratnell | yes, IBM did but ending up a much smaller player, considering at one time they owned the IBM PC form factor, and a massive actual business machine business. Going back to the 60's | Jun 24 13:13 |
| MinceR | they never did much with that ownership though, did they? | Jun 24 13:13 |
| schestowitz | http://asert.arbornetworks.com/2009/06/iranian-traffic-engineering/ | Jun 24 13:13 |
| MinceR | they still have the business machine business part | Jun 24 13:13 |
| pratnell | Novell was a major player in OS's and SUN have great servers and high end machines. | Jun 24 13:14 |
| pratnell | They did, they fought it very hard, and tried to make IBM compables illegal, and engaged in smear campains saying if it was not genuine IBM it will have problems and so on | Jun 24 13:15 |
| oiaohm | IBM was at one point a dead company. | Jun 24 13:16 |
| fewa | not just into the 60's | Jun 24 13:16 |
| fewa | were they not founded in like 1850 or so | Jun 24 13:16 |
| schestowitz | MySpace announces more job cuts < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/newsbeat/hi/technology/newsid_8116000/8116690.stm > | Jun 24 13:16 |
| fewa | and have a monopoly on the small market basically until the PC | Jun 24 13:17 |
| oiaohm | IBM saved themselves from competely destruction and built back to where they are now pratnell | Jun 24 13:17 |
| fewa | or at least the 50s | Jun 24 13:17 |
| pratnell | they certainly did not have a monopoly, there were many players in the game at that time. | Jun 24 13:17 |
| oiaohm | IBM saved themselves by renting out there head offices and moving there head office into factories. | Jun 24 13:17 |
| fewa | how about in the 50s, they had a monopoly then | Jun 24 13:18 |
| oiaohm | Then going through a complete restruct. | Jun 24 13:18 |
| fewa | it was a small market however, not much of a monopoly | Jun 24 13:18 |
| pratnell | yes, for business machines and mainframes they had large market share but not a monopoly | Jun 24 13:18 |
| oiaohm | IBM was never alone in the mainframe market. | Jun 24 13:19 |
| pratnell | thats right | Jun 24 13:19 |
| pratnell | therefore not a monopoly | Jun 24 13:19 |
| schestowitz | Not really | Jun 24 13:19 |
| schestowitz | Monopoly means something | Jun 24 13:19 |
| schestowitz | Else | Jun 24 13:19 |
| pratnell | it was never alone in the personal computer market either | Jun 24 13:19 |
| schestowitz | More than x% market share (depends where) | Jun 24 13:19 |
| fewa | it was not a anti-competitive monpoly | Jun 24 13:19 |
| fewa | it was just a small market | Jun 24 13:20 |
| oiaohm | we would not have the PC if IBM had used anti-competitive tech. | Jun 24 13:20 |
| fewa | exactly | Jun 24 13:20 |
| fewa | by monopoly i do not mean anticompetitive | Jun 24 13:20 |
| fewa | two differnt things | Jun 24 13:20 |
| oiaohm | Ibm designed PC like other mainframes of the time. From close to bog standard parts as able. | Jun 24 13:21 |
| oiaohm | To make repairing as cheep as able. | Jun 24 13:21 |
| pratnell | they did use anti-competative, and they did work very hard to protect the IBM-PC form factor. | Jun 24 13:21 |
| fewa | good engineering | Jun 24 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Not really pratnell. | Jun 24 13:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Could this be a cancer booster, too? http://ping.fm/UY0OS | Jun 24 13:22 | |
| oiaohm | IBM never attempted to block the PC bios from being cloned. | Jun 24 13:22 |
| oiaohm | Most of the idea that IBM was a monopply comes from apple ads against them. | Jun 24 13:22 |
| oiaohm | The anti-competative action from IBM most had MS hand behind them. | Jun 24 13:23 |
| fewa | Apple was a reaction to IBM culture, not business practices | Jun 24 13:23 |
| pratnell | they did try to stop the bios and it was necessry to some IBM clones to disassemble the bios to make their own. | Jun 24 13:23 |
| oiaohm | That was normal for the time. | Jun 24 13:24 |
| oiaohm | IBM could have used custom parts and the like. | Jun 24 13:24 |
| pratnell | IBM like everyone else at the time could only use the cpu's and memory that was available at the time, | Jun 24 13:25 |
| pratnell | the IBM proprietary form factor was simply an evolution for the S-100 buss that was common at the time. | Jun 24 13:26 |
| pratnell | late 70's early 80's | Jun 24 13:26 |
| pratnell | and you could just as easily use DR-DOS or MS-DOS on the early machines, so there was even choice there. | Jun 24 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Jun 24 13:27 |
| oiaohm | If a maker wanted to ship with MS-DOS they had to agree to MS to pay for every machine they produced no matter if it incuded MS Dos or not. | Jun 24 13:28 |
| oiaohm | One of MS earliest bias action pratnell | Jun 24 13:29 |
| pratnell | Mabey, but not here, you could get what you want you're choice from the shop | Jun 24 13:29 |
| oiaohm | pratnell: its why in time MS-Dos cost nothing on some brands of machines. Remember apple and other beat IBM into the home market. Most of them were built around pure custom parts. | Jun 24 13:31 |
| oiaohm | IBM never expected the IBM PC to sell in any great numbers. | Jun 24 13:32 |
| schestowitz | fewa: so you mean monopolist? | Jun 24 13:32 |
| oiaohm | Or that anyone would ever be interested in cloning it. | Jun 24 13:32 |
| fewa | schestowitz, yeah, good word | Jun 24 13:32 |
| oiaohm | So they did not have a sale plan for the bios. What you call caught hopping. | Jun 24 13:32 |
| fewa | someone who seeks a monopoly, and/or exploits it | Jun 24 13:32 |
| oiaohm | IBM could have made a killing selling bioses. | Jun 24 13:33 |
| pratnell | yes, there were lots of players in the home market before MS was anywhere near the scene | Jun 24 13:33 |
| oiaohm | Lot of MS actions killed off the broad range of players. | Jun 24 13:33 |
| pratnell | they tried too, but people just cloned the form, thats why we this formfactor. It won the popularity war. | Jun 24 13:34 |
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| oiaohm | x86 form factor in time will have to disappear | Jun 24 13:35 |
| pratnell | Mabey MS did, but they were not the first and they did not own the market, | Jun 24 13:35 |
| fewa | meh, they are pretty ubiquitus | Jun 24 13:35 |
| fewa | and quite flexible | Jun 24 13:35 |
| fewa | ATX, mini-ATX, etc | Jun 24 13:36 |
| oiaohm | x86 are very power hungry. | Jun 24 13:36 |
| fewa | the CPU can change | Jun 24 13:36 |
| fewa | what are we referring to? | Jun 24 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Power PC comes in ATX and mini-ATX and lot of the motherboard shapes. | Jun 24 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Motherboard shape I am not refering to. | Jun 24 13:37 |
| fewa | then ISA | Jun 24 13:38 |
| fewa | ISA != "form factor" | Jun 24 13:39 |
| oiaohm | At the time of 486 processes x86 was lossing performace compared to risc chips. pent with risc core appeared with a x86 translator to close the speed gap. Price high power usage. | Jun 24 13:39 |
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| oiaohm | w | Jun 24 13:39 |
| zoobab79 | testing qwebirc | Jun 24 13:39 |
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| pratnell | no we are talking about IBM compatable form factor, whatever bus structure and chipset configuration is x86 we all know what it is | Jun 24 13:39 |
| oiaohm | With out pent chips we would have seen the back of x86 a long time ago. | Jun 24 13:40 |
| fewa | meh | Jun 24 13:40 |
| fewa | x86 is a huge amalgamation of hacks | Jun 24 13:41 |
| pratnell | its just an implementation of an instruction set and cache/bus structure, CPU internals can and do change and evolve all the time. | Jun 24 13:41 |
| fewa | yeah ISA, the API that machine code is written to | Jun 24 13:41 |
| schestowitz | Example of hacker->job: Q&A: Kevin Mitnick, from ham operator to fugitive to consultant < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10269348-83.html > | Jun 24 13:41 |
| oiaohm | Instruction sets can be designed to be effective or not. x86 falls into not that power effective. | Jun 24 13:42 |
| pratnell | dont know about power effective, most people use CPU's to be computer effective, | Jun 24 13:42 |
| oiaohm | Arm chips can be doing a maths operation swaping data in registers around and sending and recieving to ram all in a single processor operation. | Jun 24 13:43 |
| fewa | power costs noise, money, and failure | Jun 24 13:43 |
| oiaohm | The instruction set allows lot more to be done at one with arm pratnell | Jun 24 13:44 |
| oiaohm | So making more use of the powered up sections of the chip. | Jun 24 13:44 |
| fewa | efficiency is super important | Jun 24 13:44 |
| oiaohm | No translater is also required with arm processes since the instruction set is native to the cpu core. | Jun 24 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Same with powerpc chips. | Jun 24 13:45 |
| pratnell | thats debatable, as teh ARM does not do pre-emptive multitasking and does not have the large L1/L2 cache structure, and im not sure they have pipelining either | Jun 24 13:45 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Jun 24 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Arm can do pre-emptive multitasking. | Jun 24 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Caching block are optional in arm cpu designs you can choose to have them. | Jun 24 13:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Time to install a qwebirc service for StopSoftwarePatents.org: http://qwebirc.org | Jun 24 13:47 | |
| oiaohm | Arm processors don't need long instruction piping the instruction set does not need it. | Jun 24 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Pipelining of instructions is more a requirement of the translator. 486's did not have much piping either. | Jun 24 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Longer the pipeline less the cpu can handle need for real time pre emptive multitasking. | Jun 24 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Ie real time event triggered task change. | Jun 24 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Intel as tryed to get around this issue by giving each core 2 pipe lines. Cost again more power usage. | Jun 24 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Note large caches also are a power draw. If you are not needing them the better off you are. | Jun 24 13:54 |
| pratnell | if cpu power usage is your main concern sure, for most its not. | Jun 24 13:55 |
| fewa | power usage is the biggest concern these days | Jun 24 13:55 |
| fewa | the power usage of a CPU over its life if ran 24/7 is bigger than the initial cost | Jun 24 13:56 |
| fewa | not to mention need to fans, damage from heat etc | Jun 24 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Arm also supports something x86 does not. | Jun 24 13:57 |
| pratnell | CPU reliability is a non issue, has been for years, and a cpu is no more power hungry than a standard TV or monitor, | Jun 24 13:57 |
| oiaohm | Split instruction and data caches. | Jun 24 13:57 |
| schestowitz | pi zoobab01 zoobab79 | Jun 24 13:57 |
| oiaohm | So reducing chances of instruction overwriting. | Jun 24 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Are you going to install it locally? | Jun 24 13:57 |
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| oiaohm | pratnell: when you are on battries every bit counts. | Jun 24 13:59 |
| pratnell | yes, I agree, are you on batteries now ?? | Jun 24 13:59 |
| pratnell | Im not | Jun 24 13:59 |
| oiaohm | Laptops and netbooks are coming the most common form of computer. | Jun 24 14:00 |
| pratnell | yes, im using a laptop as i type | Jun 24 14:00 |
| oiaohm | Would you not want 10 hour battry life + under full load pratnell? | Jun 24 14:01 |
| oiaohm | So you only have to charge a laptop once per day max. | Jun 24 14:01 |
| fewa | and not need a noisy fan | Jun 24 14:01 |
| fewa | and not have you laptop be a hot potatato | Jun 24 14:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Some reporter who contacted Novell can confirm they won't deny selling parts of the company. | Jun 24 14:02 | |
| oiaohm | Yep heat out put is reduced by being more power effective. | Jun 24 14:02 |
| pratnell | my laptop is fully charged, under full load is cool and works just fine, and the battery life I do get is just fine as is the performance of my laptop. | Jun 24 14:02 |
| pratnell | I would not reduce performance for better battery life. | Jun 24 14:03 |
| fewa | you dont have to | Jun 24 14:03 |
| oiaohm | Who said anything about reducing performance. | Jun 24 14:03 |
| pratnell | good, as I dont intend too | Jun 24 14:03 |
| fewa | ARM only uses as much power as it needs | Jun 24 14:03 |
| schestowitz | "Novell's Jack Messman is the good news/bad news story of the survey. Although readers deducted 10.6% from his Power Rating, landing him among the biggest losers, they chastised so many others more severely that Messman yielded his last-place spot to WorldCom's leader at the time of the survey" http://www.networkworld.com/power/2002/ceopom.html | Jun 24 14:03 |
| fewa | absolutely no more | Jun 24 14:03 |
| fewa | with instant power-scaling | Jun 24 14:03 |
| fewa | a ARM chip that supports 18080p uses no more power than a 720p processor at 720p | Jun 24 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Arm has the best power management out there. Including power management putting cores on and off line instantly. | Jun 24 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Lack of pipelining allows arm to do that. | Jun 24 14:05 |
| fewa | Should i get a hp mini? | Jun 24 14:05 |
| oiaohm | I really wish 8 core ARM chips would get out there in the smartbooks. | Jun 24 14:06 |
| fewa | Windows...the cancer | Jun 24 14:06 |
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| fewa | holding everything back | Jun 24 14:06 |
| oiaohm | Funny as it sounds 8 core arm full load pulls less than 1/4 of an atom single core. | Jun 24 14:07 |
| fewa | i have a sheevaplug its awesome | Jun 24 14:07 |
| oiaohm | Same clock speed. | Jun 24 14:07 |
| fewa | <5W | Jun 24 14:07 |
| fewa | only 1 watt for the actual cpu | Jun 24 14:07 |
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| oiaohm | Basically x86 design limitations are very much fighting with 1 hand tied behind back. | Jun 24 14:16 |
| fewa | largely because of the practice of selling binaries | Jun 24 14:17 |
| oiaohm | thing people have missed is intel and amd these days are focused on how to add more cores than higher clock speeds. | Jun 24 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Reason we have basically hit the wall on how fast you can make a single core go. | Jun 24 14:19 |
| fewa | same with ARM, and everyone else | Jun 24 14:19 |
| fewa | and getting more done with less cycles | Jun 24 14:19 |
| oiaohm | ARM are still releasing higher and higher clockspeeds. | Jun 24 14:19 |
| fewa | but they will max out at 2-3Ghz too | Jun 24 14:19 |
| oiaohm | Sooner or latter the instruction set difference is going to become a huge difference. | Jun 24 14:20 |
| fewa | are netbooks with atom chips usable? | Jun 24 14:20 |
| pratnell | they are 2 entirely different designes with different engineering goals. | Jun 24 14:20 |
| oiaohm | mips is also increasing there clock speeds. | Jun 24 14:21 |
| fewa | atom comparable with pentium 4 or 3 on speed/Mhz | Jun 24 14:21 |
| fewa | ? | Jun 24 14:21 |
| oiaohm | atoms are slightly slower. | Jun 24 14:22 |
| ugufjhfj | more speed = smaller core, less nanometer | Jun 24 14:22 |
| fewa | less nanometre, more power usage however | Jun 24 14:23 |
| oiaohm | To a point ugufjhfj | Jun 24 14:23 |
| fewa | eventually you have to fix the design | Jun 24 14:23 |
| pratnell | its not the size of the core, its the speed of the transistors in the chip. | Jun 24 14:23 |
| oiaohm | Past a particular points noise becomes a major problem. | Jun 24 14:23 |
| oiaohm | noise and leakage. | Jun 24 14:24 |
| oiaohm | Size of core is a factor as well pratnell | Jun 24 14:24 |
| fewa | cause im wondering if a atom-based net-book would be usable | Jun 24 14:25 |
| oiaohm | Not with vista | Jun 24 14:26 |
| oiaohm | I have seen a few people run OS X on them. | Jun 24 14:27 |
| fewa | lol | Jun 24 14:27 |
| fewa | with GNOME | Jun 24 14:27 |
| fewa | the mini 9 works really wel with OSX supposedly | Jun 24 14:27 |
| fewa | as OS X has horrible hardware support | Jun 24 14:27 |
| oiaohm | Seen on a mini 9 | Jun 24 14:27 |
| fewa | but dell doesnt sell the mini 9 anymore | Jun 24 14:27 |
| oiaohm | It was funny it was running better than a proper OS X laptop. | Jun 24 14:28 |
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| fewa | im not really interested in OS X | Jun 24 14:28 |
| oiaohm | Gnome without mono would stand a chance. | Jun 24 14:28 |
| fewa | GTK is quality, but some desktop stuff uses alot of bloat RAM | Jun 24 14:28 |
| fewa | not anywhere near what vista uses however :P | Jun 24 14:29 |
| oiaohm | GTK does not bloat out on cpu usage. | Jun 24 14:30 |
| fewa | like LXDE | Jun 24 14:30 |
| fewa | super low ram usage | Jun 24 14:30 |
| fewa | and cpu | Jun 24 14:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock @TheFemaleSpot "Get Experienced, Learn More, the Success will be your FOLLOWER!!" As will BLOCKS for being a SPAMMER! | Jun 24 14:37 | |
| schestowitz | http://paidcontent.org/article/419-twitter-considers-e-commerce-as-a-revenue-stream/ "For instance, Dell announced last week that $3 million of its product sales could be directly attributed to its Twitter account." | Jun 24 14:39 |
| schestowitz | Google Social Evangelist Marks Leaves < http://paidcontent.org/article/419-google-social-evangelist-marks-leaves/ > | Jun 24 14:39 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Further Signs That Novell Will Sell in Parts, Stock Rebounds < http://ping.fm/Ublyn > | Jun 24 14:57 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] German old timers torture financial adviser < http://ping.fm/uCCir >. Scary stuff... radicalism. | Jun 24 14:57 | |
| schestowitz | PayPal UK titsup < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/24/paypal_uk_down/ > | Jun 24 14:58 |
| schestowitz | Commission investigates right to 'chip silence' < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/24/eu_investigates_chip_silence/ > | Jun 24 14:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux software installation is not broken at all < http://ping.fm/G6kj6 > | Jun 24 15:02 | |
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| schestowitz | Opera 10 Beta - Preview and Screenshots < http://tuxarena.blogspot.com/2009/06/opera-10-beta-preview-and-screenshots.html > | Jun 24 15:04 |
| schestowitz | goodmorning: I was about to do the Gates/c# item | Jun 24 15:04 |
| schestowitz | But I don't know whether to include attachments | Jun 24 15:04 |
| goodmorning | well, attachments can always be done afterwards | Jun 24 15:06 |
| goodmorning | but i think they should definitely be done | Jun 24 15:06 |
| goodmorning | go ahead and send the next batch | Jun 24 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | Turns out WebOS wil run Palm OS apps :-) | Jun 24 15:10 |
| schestowitz | But it's not a PDA, it's a tracking device (cellphone), so I'll pass | Jun 24 15:10 |
| schestowitz | goodmorning: ah... I see what you mean | Jun 24 15:10 |
| MinceR | i'd figure you can turn off the phone part | Jun 24 15:10 |
| schestowitz | I'll make a placeholder for attachments, to remind us/others that it's worth looking at | Jun 24 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Those previous exhibits were viewed 1000s of times | Jun 24 15:11 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yes, but what for? | Jun 24 15:11 |
| schestowitz | It's like wiping WIndows from a PC | Jun 24 15:11 |
| MinceR | to avoid being tracked? :> | Jun 24 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Or Mono from a distro | Jun 24 15:11 |
| MinceR | then again, you've got pagers in the usa | Jun 24 15:11 |
| MinceR | we rely on mobile phones extensively | Jun 24 15:11 |
| MinceR | i had a privacy-supporting mobile phone system in mind, but i'm still not sure if it's feasible at all | Jun 24 15:12 |
| goodmorning | MinceR, i haven't met anyone with a pager in years | Jun 24 15:13 |
| MinceR | oh. | Jun 24 15:13 |
| MinceR | what do you use then? | Jun 24 15:13 |
| goodmorning | everyone just has cell phones | Jun 24 15:13 |
| MinceR | so how are people who avoid cellphones reached? | Jun 24 15:14 |
| goodmorning | lol, i guess, if they wanted to be reached they'd get a cell phone | Jun 24 15:15 |
| goodmorning | some companies give cell phones or pagers to their employees | Jun 24 15:15 |
| goodmorning | i don't have a cell phone and i do fine | Jun 24 15:15 |
| MinceR | what mobile communication device do you have? | Jun 24 15:16 |
| schestowitz | BTW.. | Jun 24 15:16 |
| schestowitz | I have a hard time getting formatting from E-mail | Jun 24 15:16 |
| schestowitz | HTML-formatted E-mails are not normal HTML | Jun 24 15:16 |
| goodmorning | i don't have any mobile devices | Jun 24 15:16 |
| schestowitz | So I need to manually add <b>bold</b> | Jun 24 15:17 |
| schestowitz | goodmorning: our sysadmin has a pager | Jun 24 15:17 |
| schestowitz | The one who runs the BN server | Jun 24 15:17 |
| goodmorning | occasionally, if i need to travel alone i'll get a pre-paid phone | Jun 24 15:17 |
| schestowitz | It send downtime alerts | Jun 24 15:17 |
| schestowitz | goodmorning: same here | Jun 24 15:18 |
| MinceR | what do html-formatted e-mails miss? doctype declaration? | Jun 24 15:18 |
| schestowitz | But I did use to have a cellphone for years | Jun 24 15:18 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: no, they use all sorts of line breaks | Jun 24 15:18 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's my mail client | Jun 24 15:19 |
| MinceR | html should ignore line breaks, shouldn't it? | Jun 24 15:19 |
| schestowitz | One option is to use the Wiki | Jun 24 15:19 |
| MinceR | (except for <br>, obviously) | Jun 24 15:19 |
| schestowitz | As in, put the text of exhibit directly in the Wiki until it's brushed up | Jun 24 15:19 |
| schestowitz | *bits | Jun 24 15:19 |
| goodmorning | roy, i think putting the newly textified doc in the wiki to proof and correct is a great idea | Jun 24 15:25 |
| goodmorning | Roy, you wrote that "those previous exhibits were viewed 1000s of times" | Jun 24 15:27 |
| schestowitz | goodmorning: see http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Bill_Gates_on_COM%2B_and_UNIX | Jun 24 15:27 |
| schestowitz | goodmorning: the ones that get attention, yes. | Jun 24 15:28 |
| schestowitz | The Wiki is sheltered away because it's not polished | Jun 24 15:28 |
| goodmorning | is the PX09662 the next one to do? | Jun 24 15:29 |
| goodmorning | if so, i have it now, can get it into plain text this morning | Jun 24 15:30 |
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| schestowitz | goodmorning: I've looked at this again | Jun 24 15:38 |
| schestowitz | The papers may have been published (the attachments) | Jun 24 15:38 |
| schestowitz | Maybe even publicly | Jun 24 15:39 |
| schestowitz | goodmorning: PX09662 is not most important and there is no OCR | Jun 24 15:40 |
| goodmorning | hey, who needs OCR? :) | Jun 24 15:42 |
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| goodmorning | i have about an hour before work starts for the day so i can do a bit of transcribing | Jun 24 15:43 |
| Eruaran | hello | Jun 24 15:46 |
| schestowitz | goodmorning: Cool! | Jun 24 15:49 |
| schestowitz | goodmorning: http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Bill_Gates:_%22We_should_look_at_even_patenting_the_things_we_do_add_to_help_Office.%22 | Jun 24 15:51 |
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| pratnell | still its 1998 its ancient history | Jun 24 15:54 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] I find myself morally torn http://bit.ly/HnP1a | Jun 24 15:57 | |
| schestowitz | pratnell: not at all | Jun 24 15:59 |
| pratnell | in the business world and the technology world a week is a long time. | Jun 24 16:01 |
| goodmorning | pratnell, these exhibits establish a pattern of behavior, such patterns are still being seen today | Jun 24 16:07 |
| goodmorning | what indicates to you that MS has changed in any way over the last decade? | Jun 24 16:07 |
| goodmorning | in many of those exhibits, the conversations and plans were about the future | Jun 24 16:08 |
| goodmorning | we are now in the "future" that Microsoft discussed in the late 90s and early 2000s | Jun 24 16:09 |
| goodmorning | and it's quite apparent that they've stayed true to their intentions | Jun 24 16:09 |
| schestowitz | And these were never seen | Jun 24 16:10 |
| schestowitz | They reveal important fears and plans from deep inside the firm | Jun 24 16:10 |
| schestowitz | Like the sabotage of GNU/Linux in Wal-Mart | Jun 24 16:10 |
| schestowitz | And in Dell | Jun 24 16:10 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat might sue MS over it | Jun 24 16:10 |
| schestowitz | They do see it | Jun 24 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | The server is slow and I'm not sure if it's because of traffic or an attack/flood | Jun 24 16:19 |
| pratnell | if you can find a paper trail of proof of what you claim | Jun 24 16:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bill Gates on C# as “Key Element in Preventing Commodization by Linux” < http://ping.fm/gQmGH > | Jun 24 16:22 | |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi All! | Jun 24 16:22 |
| _Hicham_ | no one is in this channel? | Jun 24 16:23 |
| MinceR | o/ | Jun 24 16:23 |
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| _Hicham_ | howdy MinceR ? | Jun 24 16:23 |
| schestowitz | o\ | Jun 24 16:23 |
| _Hicham_ | the super Mr Schestowitz | Jun 24 16:23 |
| _Hicham_ | the free-man | Jun 24 16:24 |
| schestowitz | *mason | Jun 24 16:24 |
| schestowitz | ;;p | Jun 24 16:24 |
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| _Hicham_ | our savior from MS and Novell | Jun 24 16:24 |
| schestowitz | Good news about bad company: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1405804/analysts-predict-nvidia-q2-losses | Jun 24 16:25 |
| _Hicham_ | Nvidia is a bad company? | Jun 24 16:26 |
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| MinceR | i know suitable replacement :/ | Jun 24 16:28 |
| schestowitz | Expedited airport-security service shuts down http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10270837-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad | Jun 24 16:28 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, maybe not as bad as some others | Jun 24 16:28 |
| _Hicham_ | ATI is good? | Jun 24 16:28 |
| schestowitz | There is no ATI anymore | Jun 24 16:28 |
| MinceR | ATI is AMD now and afaik they still fail at drivers | Jun 24 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Registered Traveler flier-pass vendor Clear shuts down < http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/index.php/registered-traveler--4694/ > | Jun 24 16:30 |
| MinceR | 174508 < MinceR> i know suitable replacement :/ | Jun 24 16:33 |
| MinceR | what i meant was "i know no suitable replacement :/" | Jun 24 16:33 |
| fewa | what does Nvidia do that is bad? | Jun 24 16:33 |
| fewa | schestowitz, how what a good quote | Jun 24 16:34 |
| fewa | prevent, commoditization | Jun 24 16:34 |
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| fewa | anti...trust | Jun 24 16:34 |
| _Hicham_ | Intel is no good too? | Jun 24 16:35 |
| MinceR | Roy mentioned intel doing evil things too | Jun 24 16:35 |
| fewa | "The strength of this platform and the innovation around it is the key element in preventing commodization by Linux" | Jun 24 16:36 |
| MinceR | intel also routinely spreads FUD about ARM, iirc | Jun 24 16:37 |
| fewa | talk about clearly anti-competitive | Jun 24 16:37 |
| fewa | "prevent..commodization" | Jun 24 16:37 |
| MinceR | they're also part of the cabal that keeps new competitors out of the x86 CPU market | Jun 24 16:38 |
| MinceR | (iirc intel, amd, via) | Jun 24 16:38 |
| fewa | Don't make me a product; make me a God! | Jun 24 16:38 |
| MinceR | make me one with everything. | Jun 24 16:39 |
| schestowitz | fewa: indeed | Jun 24 16:40 |
| schestowitz | Some Linux companies watch these exhibits, so I hope they get used at a later date... in court | Jun 24 16:40 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Intel spread NVidia FUDS too | Jun 24 16:41 |
| schestowitz | NVidia slammed Intel for FUD last year | Jun 24 16:41 |
| fewa | schestowitz, as i asked, what does Nvidia do that is bad? | Jun 24 16:41 |
| fewa | <schestowitz> Good news about bad company: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1405804/analysts-predict-nvidia-q2-losses | Jun 24 16:41 |
| schestowitz | fewa: see petition from Linux devs | Jun 24 16:42 |
| schestowitz | Nvidia settles price-fixing lawsuit http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/09/30/nvidia_settles_lawsuit/ | Jun 24 16:43 |
| schestowitz | Nvidia chipsets are defective too http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/09/22/nvidia-chipsets-defective | Jun 24 16:43 |
| schestowitz | Nvidia sued for violations of federal securities law http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/09/10/nvidia-caught-bollocks | Jun 24 16:43 |
| fewa | I have one of those supposedly bad chips | Jun 24 16:43 |
| schestowitz | Nvidia chipsets are history http://www.theinquirer.net/feeds/rss/generic/en/GB/inq/latest/gb/inquirer/gb/inquirer/news/2008/08/02/nvidia-chipsets-dead | Jun 24 16:43 |
| schestowitz | On closeness: | Jun 24 16:44 |
| schestowitz | How Closed Does Nvid[i]a want to Be? http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-closed-does-nvida-want-to-be.html | Jun 24 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Kernel space: drivers that don't make the kernel scene http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2008/062408-kernel.html?fsrc=rss-linux-news | Jun 24 16:44 |
| schestowitz | How NVidia impedes Free Desktop adoption. http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=819 | Jun 24 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Linux Foundation points finger at Nvidia http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9975720-7.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 | Jun 24 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Position Statement on Linux Kernel Modules https://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Kernel_Driver_Statement | Jun 24 16:44 |
| schestowitz | NVidia says no to request to release open source drivers, once again http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2588 | Jun 24 16:45 |
| fewa | schestowitz, thx | Jun 24 16:45 |
| fewa | is ATI better? | Jun 24 16:45 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I am gonna package Solang for Fedora, is that okay for you? | Jun 24 16:46 |
| schestowitz | fewa: not in terms of quality | Jun 24 16:46 |
| schestowitz | That's why Nvidia can affrord to be so closed | Jun 24 16:47 |
| fewa | yep | Jun 24 16:47 |
| fewa | dell was pushing ATI for a better linux driver, that could help | Jun 24 16:47 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I still have mononono on my desktop | Jun 24 16:47 |
| _Hicham_ | are u ok with Solang? | Jun 24 16:47 |
| schestowitz | We should push it upstream to Mandriva, Fedora, CentOS, etc. | Jun 24 16:47 |
| _Hicham_ | Solang is the replacement of F-Spot | Jun 24 16:49 |
| fewa | nvidia binary driver is 8 megs of kernel code, its huge | Jun 24 16:49 |
| _Hicham_ | should we use Solang or F-Spot? | Jun 24 16:49 |
| MinceR | intel should hurry up with larrabee | Jun 24 16:49 |
| fewa | ^^ | Jun 24 16:56 |
| schestowitz | fewa: kernel code as a whole is much larger | Jun 24 16:56 |
| schestowitz | They develop it for clusters too.. like NASA | Jun 24 16:56 |
| fewa | but the second biggest is like 30k | Jun 24 16:56 |
| fewa | *300k -- nfs | Jun 24 16:56 |
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| schestowitz | Ed McMahon dies at 86 < http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSTRE55M2YI20090623 > | Jun 24 17:00 |
| schestowitz | fewa: yes, but they are very different | Jun 24 17:00 |
| schestowitz | One belongs with the FS, another with complex things like X Server | Jun 24 17:00 |
| fewa | just seems like such a large bunch of code is bound to have more bugs | Jun 24 17:00 |
| schestowitz | I had an nvidia crash last week | Jun 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | First ever (almost) | Jun 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Display froze, cursor still moves, sound played | Jun 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | I over-stressed it with Compiz | Jun 24 17:01 |
| fewa | ive only gotten that on windows | Jun 24 17:01 |
| schestowitz | It's only the 2nd such crash in a year | Jun 24 17:02 |
| fewa | but i have had programs grab my mouse and keep it | Jun 24 17:02 |
| schestowitz | And Mandriva doesn't allow CTRL+ALT+Bsackspace | Jun 24 17:02 |
| fewa | and they took out the ctrl-alt-backslash breakgrabs | Jun 24 17:02 |
| schestowitz | Yeag | Jun 24 17:02 |
| schestowitz | Beat me to it! | Jun 24 17:02 |
| fewa | or ctrl-alt-* killgrab | Jun 24 17:02 |
| fewa | i was like WHY | Jun 24 17:02 |
| schestowitz | So I needed to reboot | Jun 24 17:02 |
| schestowitz | And then came the FS check (long!) | Jun 24 17:02 |
| fewa | but ctrl-alt-f1 and kill the iwndows manager? | Jun 24 17:03 |
| fewa | or restart just gdm/X | Jun 24 17:03 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : u didn't answer me | Jun 24 17:06 |
| _Hicham_ | does that mean that we should stick to F-Spot? | Jun 24 17:06 |
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| quickvisit | roy, i just read your complaint to the ftc - good job! | Jun 24 17:12 |
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| pratnell | got a link ? | Jun 24 17:13 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz wants F-Spot | Jun 24 17:13 |
| _Hicham_ | great | Jun 24 17:14 |
| schestowitz | pratnell: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/24/edelman-waggener-edstrom-abuse/ | Jun 24 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Help by filing a complain too if you can spare time | Jun 24 17:14 |
| _Hicham_ | I am against complaints | Jun 24 17:15 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: you know what the F stands for | Jun 24 17:15 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Jun 24 17:16 |
| _Hicham_ | the Spot of Miguel de Icaza | Jun 24 17:16 |
| _Hicham_ | is he gay by the way? | Jun 24 17:16 |
| schestowitz | I don't think so and we should not discuss this here | Jun 24 17:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 3D Realms Countersuit Says Duke Nukem Forever Still Alive, Reveals Another Duke Game < http://ping.fm/xkcXE > | Jun 24 17:17 | |
| schestowitz | He got engaged to this girl he met in Brazil | Jun 24 17:17 |
| _Hicham_ | agree with you | Jun 24 17:17 |
| _Hicham_ | but I prefer straight people | Jun 24 17:17 |
| schestowitz | People spread similar rumours about MarkS. | Jun 24 17:17 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a personal choice | Jun 24 17:17 |
| schestowitz | This is a PR disaster from Ubuntu IMHO: (A tentative list of) One Hundred Paper Cuts < http://blog.davebsd.com/2009/06/23/a-tentative-list-of-one-hundred-paper-cuts/ > | Jun 24 17:18 |
| pratnell | did you provide any suporting proof of your claims Roy, when, where who, why ? | Jun 24 17:18 |
| schestowitz | So basicially, Ubuntu comes out with the message "we have bugs" | Jun 24 17:18 |
| schestowitz | pratnell: yes, see the links in the complaint | Jun 24 17:19 |
| schestowitz | I kept it short | Jun 24 17:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Linux-by-default goodness: http://ping.fm/bKUCa | Jun 24 17:22 | |
| schestowitz | Mr _Hicham_ https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-June/028402.html | Jun 24 17:23 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : as always, waiting for Fedora to do the job | Jun 24 17:24 |
| _Hicham_ | KMS is in Fedora since version 9 | Jun 24 17:24 |
| _Hicham_ | now in 11 it is very stable | Jun 24 17:24 |
| _Hicham_ | I really enjoy KMS | Jun 24 17:24 |
| _Hicham_ | the graphics experience is better than in Windows | Jun 24 17:25 |
| schestowitz | http://www.thenixedreport.com/blog/?p=45 " Jo Shields June 23rd, 2009 on 10:01 am Yays, my very own tag!" | Jun 24 17:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: check out http://ping.fm/GBe7d | Jun 24 17:27 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: don't worry. Uncle Bill sez that Vista | Jun 24 17:27 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: don't worry. Uncle Bill sez that Vista7 will FixEverything(C) | Jun 24 17:27 |
| _Hicham_ | Vista is just a renewal of XP with a new theme | Jun 24 17:27 |
| pratnell | roy your link is also 2006 3 years after the fact is a bit late. | Jun 24 17:27 |
| schestowitz | Mr "Nice_try" says: "5 out of 10 for effort, but you dont provide anything in a way of a reasoned argument for supporting or rejecting mono." | Jun 24 17:28 |
| schestowitz | thenixedreport: you got MSTrolled(R). Congrats | Jun 24 17:28 |
| schestowitz | pratnell: which link? | Jun 24 17:29 |
| pratnell | http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/12/28.html | Jun 24 17:30 |
| schestowitz | <MinceR> mincer@stormwind(pts/8) % hex2ip.pl 3aa5aea4 | Jun 24 17:30 |
| schestowitz | <MinceR> 58.165.174.164 | Jun 24 17:30 |
| schestowitz | pratnell: you're Mutex | Jun 24 17:30 |
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| schestowitz | Ban-evading is a violation. Goodbye. | Jun 24 17:32 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@58.166.95.123 | Jun 24 17:33 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked pratnell from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Jun 24 17:33 | |
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| Omar87 | Hi all. | Jun 24 18:12 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Jun 24 18:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Compatible with Mac, Pc, and Linux..." http://ping.fm/iVduL I didn't know "Windows" was renamed "Pc" | Jun 24 18:17 | |
| schestowitz | Who pays NPD to talk? http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/06/23/netbook_notebook_confusion_npd/ They don't do it for free. THey have clients. | Jun 24 18:21 |
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| _Hicham_ | wow, Solang is not easy to package | Jun 24 18:24 |
| _Hicham_ | it uses some old libraries | Jun 24 18:24 |
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| schestowitz | Blech. http://www.zdnetasia.com/blogs/mister-tech/0,3800019657,63011699,00.htm | Jun 24 18:39 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Richard called Mono the beast | Jun 24 18:40 |
| tacone | "Installing Mono on your Linux server is easy. If you have http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL configured on your Linux server, you can run this command to install the Mono runtime:" | Jun 24 18:41 |
| tacone | mono on a linux server ? | Jun 24 18:41 |
| _Hicham_ | no way to package solang for Fedora 11 | Jun 24 18:41 |
| _Hicham_ | tacone : why not? | Jun 24 18:41 |
| tacone | _Hicham_: why ? solang runs on fedora 10 + updates.. | Jun 24 18:42 |
| tacone | should run on fedora 11 as well. | Jun 24 18:42 |
| tacone | _Hicham_: why should you need a win.form application on a linux server ? | Jun 24 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | tacone : Fedora 11 moved to the new gda library | Jun 24 18:43 |
| _Hicham_ | it uses libgda-4.0 | Jun 24 18:43 |
| _Hicham_ | which has removed a lot of classes | Jun 24 18:43 |
| _Hicham_ | so, no way to compile it on Fedora 11 | Jun 24 18:44 |
| tacone | _Hicham_: did you tried the last git snapshot ? | Jun 24 18:44 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Jun 24 18:44 |
| _Hicham_ | do they have a git? | Jun 24 18:44 |
| tacone | the last tarball didn't work on UBuntu Jaunty | Jun 24 18:44 |
| tacone | the git did, | Jun 24 18:44 |
| tacone | yes they do. git/svn/or whatever | Jun 24 18:45 |
| tacone | git clone git://git.sv.gnu.org/solang.git | Jun 24 18:45 |
| tacone | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/how-to-install-the-solang-on-the-ubuntu/ | Jun 24 18:45 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] ... goodbye Kodachrome ....... | Jun 24 18:47 | |
| _Hicham_ | tacone : I just cloned the last git | Jun 24 18:52 |
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| tacone | k | Jun 24 18:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[tacone] I use the Fedora PPA !ubuntu | Jun 24 19:02 | |
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| schestowitz | That's a pretty high-quality synthesised voice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vceIV4Arpmg&feature=related | Jun 24 19:07 |
| _Hicham_ | same problem tacone | Jun 24 19:08 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu are using the old gda library | Jun 24 19:09 |
| tacone | :( | Jun 24 19:09 |
| tacone | liason with the solang developer | Jun 24 19:09 |
| tacone | post a comment on his blog, he'll be prob. glad to help | Jun 24 19:09 |
| tacone | one of the dev uses fedora | Jun 24 19:09 |
| tacone | http://debarshiray.multiply.com/journal/item/189/Why_solang#reply_link_debarshiray:journal:189+1 | Jun 24 19:12 |
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| yuhong | I am upgrading to Ubuntu 9.04 right now. | Jun 24 19:13 |
| yuhong | I eventually plan to upgrade to 9.10 when it is released. | Jun 24 19:13 |
| _Hicham_ | tacone : http://debarshiray.multiply.com/journal/item/189/Why_solang | Jun 24 19:14 |
| _Hicham_ | it is still a problem | Jun 24 19:14 |
| tacone | yes i saw | Jun 24 19:14 |
| _Hicham_ | the gdamm api changed in Fedora 11 | Jun 24 19:14 |
| tacone | there's a mailing list. | Jun 24 19:15 |
| schestowitz | You could invite them to IRC | Jun 24 19:15 |
| _Hicham_ | so, now way until either | Jun 24 19:15 |
| tacone | they postponed the issue. | Jun 24 19:15 |
| tacone | there's no way solang won't work on fedora. | Jun 24 19:15 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, no way for the moment | Jun 24 19:17 |
| _Hicham_ | except if | Jun 24 19:17 |
| schestowitz | BN gort 6000 unique IPs in the past 8 hours alone :-) because of Comes vs MS | Jun 24 19:17 |
| yuhong | On the matter of SF and MS, here is an email advertisement I often see at the bottom of emails. | Jun 24 19:17 |
| yuhong | This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft | Jun 24 19:17 |
| yuhong | Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. | Jun 24 19:17 |
| yuhong | http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ | Jun 24 19:17 |
| tacone | 6000 unique ips is huge | Jun 24 19:18 |
| yuhong | What do you think? | Jun 24 19:19 |
| schestowitz | Yes, SF sold out long ago | Jun 24 19:21 |
| yuhong | I know. | Jun 24 19:21 |
| yuhong | Yep, basically it is locking in open source software so they require closed source software, which is dangerous. | Jun 24 19:23 |
| yuhong | FSF has warned about the Motif and the Java trap before. | Jun 24 19:23 |
| thenixedreport | But at least Java has opened up quite a bit. | Jun 24 19:23 |
| MinceR | there's also the windows trap | Jun 24 19:23 |
| yuhong | Yep, FSF consider the Java trap dead now. | Jun 24 19:23 |
| MinceR | and the mono trap has stepped in place of the java trap | Jun 24 19:24 |
| yuhong | VirtualDub is a good example of open source software that require Windows. | Jun 24 19:24 |
| yuhong | Yep, the MS-Novell deal was signed the same month Sun open sourced Java. | Jun 24 19:24 |
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| yuhong | Wine is trying to rescue software out of the windows trap. | Jun 24 19:25 |
| _Hicham_ | yuhong : can u tc | Jun 24 19:25 |
| _Hicham_ | can u contribute to Wine? | Jun 24 19:25 |
| yuhong | http://www.virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=239 | Jun 24 19:25 |
| yuhong | Yes, since I hasn't seen any Windows source code, but I am not likely going to. | Jun 24 19:26 |
| yuhong | At least soon. | Jun 24 19:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] IBM & Google Push GNU/Linux at the Expense of Windows http://ping.fm/Smb2P | Jun 24 19:27 | |
| yuhong | BTW, the blog article pointed above talks about running VirtualDub on top of Wine. | Jun 24 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | why u r not gonna contribute? | Jun 24 19:27 |
| yuhong | In fact, since this is a dual-boot system, I hasn't bothered to install Wine. | Jun 24 19:28 |
| yuhong | Since I can just run Windows software on top of Windows. | Jun 24 19:28 |
| _Hicham_ | dual boot with what? | Jun 24 19:28 |
| yuhong | Windows Vista. | Jun 24 19:28 |
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| yuhong | Chrome was another Windows-only open source software. | Jun 24 19:29 |
| _Hicham_ | there is now Chromium | Jun 24 19:30 |
| yuhong | CodeWeavers modified Wine to run Chromium and created packages for Mac and Linux. | Jun 24 19:30 |
| yuhong | http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/15/1639216 | Jun 24 19:30 |
| _Hicham_ | I know | Jun 24 19:30 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is native now | Jun 24 19:30 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Jun 24 19:30 |
| _Hicham_ | there is a package for Linux | Jun 24 19:31 |
| _Hicham_ | native package | Jun 24 19:31 |
| _Hicham_ | no Wine | Jun 24 19:31 |
| _Hicham_ | did u try it? | Jun 24 19:31 |
| yuhong | Correct, later Google themselves made Chrome native to both Mac and Linux. | Jun 24 19:31 |
| yuhong | I was thinking of trying it, but now it will have to wait until I finish the upgrade to 9.04. | Jun 24 19:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Still Ahead of the Curve with Multitouch http://ping.fm/KocjI | Jun 24 19:32 | |
| yuhong | I don't work at MS and has never seen Windows source code. | Jun 24 19:32 |
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| yuhong | So I could contribute code to Wine, but I am not likely even to bother to even install it since I am dual-booting with Vista. | Jun 24 19:33 |
| yuhong | Actually, I may try it later, but that will again have to wait until after I finish installing 9.04 | Jun 24 19:33 |
| yuhong | [schestowitz] IBM & Google Push GNU/Linux at the Expense of Windows http://ping.fm/Smb2P | Jun 24 19:34 |
| yuhong | Sorry, wrong link. | Jun 24 19:34 |
| yuhong | I have a VC express install on the Vista side, and I may try some of the programs I develop with it with Wine. | Jun 24 19:35 |
| schestowitz | yuhong: right. http://www.minyanville.com/articles/GOOG-MSFT-ibm-google-crm-intu/index/a/23214/from/yahoo | Jun 24 19:36 |
| yuhong | I also have both gcc and gdb installed so I can try developing Linux native software. | Jun 24 19:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SFLC Audio Show (About Microsoft Antitrust) http://ping.fm/qwMCP | Jun 24 19:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Demonstration of Emerald Making GNU/Linux Desktops Look Beautiful http://ping.fm/Lh24k | Jun 24 19:37 | |
| schestowitz | Virtualisation might work | Jun 24 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Use VirtualBox | Jun 24 19:37 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Jun 24 19:37 |
| yuhong | On the matter of Rockefeller and Big Pharma, here is some article from Mercola. | Jun 24 19:39 |
| yuhong | http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/03/22/the-ama----murder-by-injection.aspx | Jun 24 19:39 |
| yuhong | http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/01/23/medical-control-corruption.aspx | Jun 24 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Let me look | Jun 24 19:40 |
| schestowitz | It it's just about the Rockefellers, then it might be considered off topic for us | Jun 24 19:40 |
| _Hicham_ | yuhong : developing in Linux is easier than on Windows | Jun 24 19:40 |
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| yuhong | I am thinking of installing a Linux IDE to make development much easier. | Jun 24 19:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Experience Suggests That GNU/Linux is Easier to Support Than Windows http://ping.fm/0wboJ | Jun 24 19:42 | |
| schestowitz | yuhong: try TrollTech's | Jun 24 19:42 |
| yuhong | I run GNOME, not Qt. | Jun 24 19:42 |
| schestowitz | [now Noikia] | Jun 24 19:42 |
| schestowitz | So use Glade | Jun 24 19:42 |
| yuhong | Thanks. | Jun 24 19:43 |
| yuhong | I will considering it once I finish upgrading to 9.04. | Jun 24 19:43 |
| yuhong | I eventually plan to upgrade to 9.10 when it is released. | Jun 24 19:43 |
| _Hicham_ | yuhong : Anjuta is the best GNOME IDE | Jun 24 19:44 |
| _Hicham_ | I love it | Jun 24 19:44 |
| *schestowitz never seen Anjuta | Jun 24 19:46 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Changes in the Desktop Metaphor Serve as Opportunity for GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/3ElDF | Jun 24 19:47 | |
| yuhong | I just compiled a hello world program in linux. | Jun 24 19:48 |
| fewa | congradulations | Jun 24 19:49 |
| fewa | http://packages.debian.org/hello | Jun 24 19:49 |
| yuhong | I once participated in the USACO contest, which used Linux for grading. | Jun 24 19:50 |
| yuhong | I used Windows to develop the programs. | Jun 24 19:50 |
| yuhong | But because USACO used Linux for grading them, they all should compile using Linux. | Jun 24 19:50 |
| yuhong | I am thinking of digging them out from my Windows partition and compiling them using Linux. | Jun 24 19:51 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Carries on Gaining in Servers, Windows Only at 1%s | Jun 24 19:52 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] British Police Uses Linux and Increasingly Leans Towards More Free Software http://ping.fm/LpeYS | Jun 24 19:52 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nvidia Linux Drivers Leak (to the Web) http://ping.fm/IS5nP , Another Linux Report from Heise http://ping.fm/QHgE5 | Jun 24 19:52 | |
| MinceR | the best IDE consists of GVim and a terminal. :> | Jun 24 19:53 |
| yuhong | I can use that and am right now. | Jun 24 19:53 |
| yuhong | I am stepping into the puts call using a debugger. | Jun 24 19:54 |
| yuhong | It is in _dl_runtime_resolve right now. | Jun 24 19:54 |
| yuhong | What annoys me about gdb is that is is hard to disassemble code if you are not near a known symbol. | Jun 24 19:56 |
| yuhong | And the lack of a symbol server like in Windows. | Jun 24 19:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] After Microsoft Deliberately Sabotaged ACPI for Linux Intel Brings an Alternative http://ping.fm/DTOWS | Jun 24 19:57 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Here is proof of Bill Gate sabotaging ACPI: http://ping.fm/9PFYT | Jun 24 19:57 | |
| yuhong | I have ddebs set in sources.list so I can get them, but I have to install them manually. | Jun 24 19:57 |
| yuhong | BTW, on ACPI and Microsoft, one of the MS extensions to ACPI is ACPI WMI. | Jun 24 19:57 |
| yuhong | It is supported in Vista. | Jun 24 19:58 |
| yuhong | So yea MS did extend ACPI. | Jun 24 19:58 |
| _Hicham_ | symbol servers are the dbg packages yuhong | Jun 24 19:58 |
| yuhong | Yea, but it is not automatic like in Windows. | Jun 24 19:58 |
| _Hicham_ | it is | Jun 24 19:59 |
| _Hicham_ | u should know what u r doing | Jun 24 19:59 |
| _Hicham_ | which libraries need dbg symbols | Jun 24 19:59 |
| _Hicham_ | and that it is | Jun 24 19:59 |
| _Hicham_ | in Anjuta, this is done automatically for you on Fedora | Jun 24 19:59 |
| yuhong | I do have the Ubuntu ddeb servers in sources.list. | Jun 24 20:00 |
| _Hicham_ | once a program crashed, Fedora tries to install the dbg symbols | Jun 24 20:00 |
| yuhong | So I can install symbols manually, but it is still a hassle. | Jun 24 20:00 |
| _Hicham_ | I know what u mean | Jun 24 20:00 |
| yuhong | On Fedora automatic dbg symbols, thanks. | Jun 24 20:00 |
| MinceR | afaik there's no debugger for windows that can decode recursive structs (say, the members of a struct pointed by a pointer in a struct stored in a local variable) | Jun 24 20:01 |
| yuhong | I want to find out more, can you give me a link. | Jun 24 20:01 |
| MinceR | while gdb does that just fine | Jun 24 20:01 |
| yuhong | I want to find more about this feature. | Jun 24 20:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Alien Arena 2009 Screenshots Galore http://ping.fm/tCYAz | Jun 24 20:02 | |
| _Hicham_ | yuhong : I don't have a link | Jun 24 20:02 |
| yuhong | Linux is trying to implement ACPI WMI, BTW. | Jun 24 20:02 |
| _Hicham_ | but I just noticed that when a program crashes from Anjuta | Jun 24 20:02 |
| _Hicham_ | I am working now on a 3D OpenGL program | Jun 24 20:03 |
| yuhong | But more important IMO is that ACPI is a complicated interface, and Intel realizes that. | Jun 24 20:03 |
| yuhong | So they are trying to design a simpler interface. | Jun 24 20:05 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, it is a very complicated interface | Jun 24 20:05 |
| yuhong | The "fact" that ACPI AML can cause more damage than APM is a myth however. | Jun 24 20:05 |
| yuhong | APM is written in raw x86 native code. | Jun 24 20:06 |
| yuhong | Which can load a flat selector and it then have access to all kernel memory. | Jun 24 20:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat Signs Another Major GNU/Linux Contract in Argentina http://ping.fm/8m89y | Jun 24 20:07 | |
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| _Hicham_ | vive RedHat | Jun 24 20:08 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Results of Fedora Elections Are in http://ping.fm/WZkqL | Jun 24 20:12 | |
| yuhong | The MS laptop bribes do indeed look suspicious. | Jun 24 20:12 |
| yuhong | First of all, MS kicked a disobdiant journalist out. | Jun 24 20:12 |
| yuhong | There is a second warning sign also. | Jun 24 20:12 |
| yuhong | So, yea the bribes are suspicious enough that the bribed reviews should not be trusted. | Jun 24 20:15 |
| yuhong | But how long does the quid quo pro really list? | Jun 24 20:15 |
| yuhong | But how long does the quid quo pro really last? | Jun 24 20:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu Gets Kernel Mode-Setting http://ping.fm/SDHir | Jun 24 20:17 | |
| yuhong | Another reason I will be upgrading to 9.10 once released. | Jun 24 20:18 |
| yuhong | I may even try the betas. | Jun 24 20:18 |
| schestowitz | They needed to set the tone | Jun 24 20:18 |
| schestowitz | With Vista and Vista 7 | Jun 24 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Vista was as hyped in 2006 | Jun 24 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Before actual PEOPLE used it | Jun 24 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Not enthusiasts | Jun 24 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Most people in the press who write about Vista 7 never tried ti | Jun 24 20:19 |
| schestowitz | I know because I checked | Jun 24 20:19 |
| schestowitz | They just refer to bribed bloggers and MVPs and claims something like "it's accepted that Vista 7 is great" | Jun 24 20:19 |
| yuhong | And since you can only upgrade to one release at a time, that is why I am upgrading to 9.04 right now. | Jun 24 20:19 |
| schestowitz | That's what setting the tone is about | Jun 24 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Fake con consensus | Jun 24 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Naked emperor | Jun 24 20:20 |
| yuhong | I know!\ | Jun 24 20:20 |
| yuhong | What I do question is how long does the quid quo pro last. | Jun 24 20:20 |
| yuhong | The first time I go through the articles. | Jun 24 20:20 |
| yuhong | I missed the detail about "expecting whatever to write good reviews in the *future*". | Jun 24 20:21 |
| yuhong | In the *future*? how long does the quid pro pro really last? | Jun 24 20:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu GNU/Linux Finds More Lovers http://ping.fm/W8QDS http://ping.fm/Ykrvj http://ping.fm/eqhaQ | Jun 24 20:22 | |
| schestowitz | yuhong: infinitely | Jun 24 20:23 |
| yuhong | WQHy? | Jun 24 20:23 |
| yuhong | Why? | Jun 24 20:23 |
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| lunchtime | I'm having an odd problem with BN | Jun 24 20:24 |
| MinceR | squid pro quo | Jun 24 20:24 |
| lunchtime | when i click on a link to an article, the page initially loads showing the headline at the top of the page, but as soon as it finishes loading it jumps down to the IRC login box...it's not a HUGE problem for me to just scroll back up to the headline, but it's a bit annoying...is it something in my own Firefox settings? | Jun 24 20:24 |
| lunchtime | it only started happening when the irc thing was changed | Jun 24 20:25 |
| schestowitz | Oh no. | Jun 24 20:26 |
| schestowitz | Is it still doing that? | Jun 24 20:26 |
| lunchtime | oh no? lol | Jun 24 20:26 |
| schestowitz | Well, I knew about it. | Jun 24 20:26 |
| schestowitz | But I don't know what triggers it | Jun 24 20:26 |
| lunchtime | yes, it's still doing that, for me | Jun 24 20:26 |
| schestowitz | I might have to just remove the IRC applet from the page | Jun 24 20:26 |
| schestowitz | And leave it in the IRC page only | Jun 24 20:26 |
| lunchtime | the only thing i worry about is sending links to other people | Jun 24 20:26 |
| schestowitz | Thoughts? | Jun 24 20:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nokia and Intel Liaise to Push Linux Forward http://ping.fm/zYgU5 | Jun 24 20:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Cisco Tries to Make Friends with Linux Using New Router http://ping.fm/yUDc7 http://ping.fm/y5EZw | Jun 24 20:27 | |
| schestowitz | lunchtime: we had 6000 people watch it in the past 8 hours | Jun 24 20:27 |
| lunchtime | if my non-techie friends find themselves faced with an irc box they won't | Jun 24 20:27 |
| lunchtime | know what to do | Jun 24 20:27 |
| schestowitz | Wait | Jun 24 20:27 |
| schestowitz | Should I remove the IRC client from that page? | Jun 24 20:27 |
| schestowitz | That would also increase commenting | Jun 24 20:27 |
| schestowitz | IRC discourages comments, partly by design | Jun 24 20:27 |
| lunchtime | i don't know how to answer that. I LIKE the irc box being there, but it isn't what i generally want to see first | Jun 24 20:28 |
| lunchtime | it happens on all pages for me | Jun 24 20:28 |
| schestowitz | After it happens the first time it carries on | Jun 24 20:28 |
| schestowitz | But it doesn't happen until someting triggers it | Jun 24 20:29 |
| lunchtime | that's right (i think), because it DOES load pages properly at first, but after a second or two it jumps to irc | Jun 24 20:29 |
| yuhong | I am curious on what Linus thinks about SFI. | Jun 24 20:30 |
| schestowitz | Not quite what I meant..... | Jun 24 20:30 |
| yuhong | I mean Linus Torvalds. | Jun 24 20:30 |
| schestowitz | I mean, for the user it does not happen until the first time it occurs | Jun 24 20:30 |
| schestowitz | I don't know how to prevent this because I don't know what triggers this behavious | Jun 24 20:30 |
| lunchtime | lol...nothing ever happens until the first time... | Jun 24 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Should I remove that IRC block/ | Jun 24 20:31 |
| schestowitz | ? | Jun 24 20:31 |
| lunchtime | if you remove the irc block, how would we find it then? | Jun 24 20:31 |
| lunchtime | sometimes i like to stop in and read on my breaks | Jun 24 20:32 |
| schestowitz | There's a link there | Jun 24 20:32 |
| schestowitz | At the end of all posts, I mean | Jun 24 20:32 |
| lunchtime | ok, i understand...maybe that would help | Jun 24 20:32 |
| lunchtime | sorry to be a pain | Jun 24 20:33 |
| lunchtime | :) | Jun 24 20:33 |
| schestowitz | Try now | Jun 24 20:33 |
| schestowitz | Loan up a page | Jun 24 20:33 |
| *lunchtime has quit ("Page closed") | Jun 24 20:34 | |
| yuhong | http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25799/1231/1/1/ | Jun 24 20:35 |
| schestowitz | :-p*Load | Jun 24 20:35 |
| yuhong | This was linked in a BN article. | Jun 24 20:35 |
| yuhong | The beginning of that linked article talked about C being created by a convicted monopolist. | Jun 24 20:36 |
| yuhong | And the fact that it is a myth. | Jun 24 20:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 24 Terabyte Storage Unit Runs Linux http://ping.fm/KFUbl | Jun 24 20:37 | |
| yuhong | I think that should be considered when thinking about Intel (a convicted monopolist) contributing to open source. | Jun 24 20:37 |
| *lunchtime (i=44e625da@gateway/web/freenode/x-71f994e784df365e) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 24 20:37 | |
| yuhong | Get it now? | Jun 24 20:37 |
| lunchtime | hi roy, yes, it still does it | Jun 24 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Jun 24 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Oh, it is cached? | Jun 24 20:38 |
| schestowitz | The IRC part is supposed to show up only in the IRC page | Jun 24 20:38 |
| yuhong | In fact Bell Labs was a great place where many inventions were created. | Jun 24 20:38 |
| lunchtime | everything clears on my browser at close, cache, cookies etc | Jun 24 20:38 |
| schestowitz | It's server cache | Jun 24 20:38 |
| lunchtime | i closed everything and even checked to make sure everything was cleared, | Jun 24 20:39 |
| schestowitz | I set it up after Christine and I overloaded the server due to Comes | Jun 24 20:39 |
| lunchtime | how to clear that? | Jun 24 20:39 |
| schestowitz | Only the server can clear it | Jun 24 20:39 |
| schestowitz | But not a good idea now that many visits are made | Jun 24 20:39 |
| schestowitz | It just serves pages without firing up mysql | Jun 24 20:40 |
| lunchtime | that's because chris was using the computers here at work to do that...hmmm | Jun 24 20:40 |
| lunchtime | ? | Jun 24 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Jun 24 20:40 |
| schestowitz | It was getting many visits | Jun 24 20:40 |
| schestowitz | So the server could not cope | Jun 24 20:40 |
| schestowitz | We needed to upgrade and set up cache | Jun 24 20:40 |
| lunchtime | ok, i think i understand... | Jun 24 20:41 |
| lunchtime | it's not a big problem for me, just a minor annoyance is all | Jun 24 20:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] HP's TouchSmart Printers Run Linux http://ping.fm/8Ubzw | Jun 24 20:42 | |
| lunchtime | btw, chris is getting married next week | Jun 24 20:42 |
| schestowitz | It was a problem for me too | Jun 24 20:42 |
| schestowitz | lunchtime: I'm jealous :-) | Jun 24 20:43 |
| schestowitz | About the chat thing: It's another issue | Jun 24 20:43 |
| schestowitz | It scrolls up when commewnting | Jun 24 20:43 |
| lunchtime | she is a very sweet person | Jun 24 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Shane pointed this out | Jun 24 20:43 |
| schestowitz | lunchtime: I know | Jun 24 20:43 |
| schestowitz | She never told me she had a bf :-) | Jun 24 20:43 |
| yuhong | BTW, Intel integrated graphics is considered as sucky. | Jun 24 20:44 |
| lunchtime | before i go, i forgot to confirm what was needed next in comes v ms - got busy for a while | Jun 24 20:44 |
| yuhong | But works with free software drivers. | Jun 24 20:44 |
| schestowitz | There's the Gates one. | Jun 24 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Hold on. | Jun 24 20:44 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Bill_Gates:_%22We_should_look_at_even_patenting_the_things_we_do_add_to_help_Office.%22 | Jun 24 20:44 |
| lunchtime | well, she had a hard time admitting that he was a boyfrind to anyone | Jun 24 20:45 |
| schestowitz | I think it's easier for readers to follow if we do one topic at a time | Jun 24 20:45 |
| schestowitz | So we can do many Gates ones and inter-link em | Jun 24 20:45 |
| yuhong | The good news is that ATI graphics are being open sourced. | Jun 24 20:45 |
| schestowitz | lunchtime: I guess it's a private story | Jun 24 20:45 |
| lunchtime | she surprised all of us...oh well | Jun 24 20:45 |
| yuhong | But that is not an option if you are going Intel. | Jun 24 20:45 |
| schestowitz | I won't go into it. Not my business.. :-) | Jun 24 20:45 |
| schestowitz | I've known enough people who were keeping secret about it | Jun 24 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Like some couples among the PhDs here | Jun 24 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Hiding from the gossip | Jun 24 20:46 |
| yuhong | So an increasing amount of vendors are going for the GeForce 9300. | Jun 24 20:46 |
| lunchtime | not gossiping, just saying we were all surprised | Jun 24 20:46 |
| yuhong | Unfortunately it's 3D driver is non-free software. | Jun 24 20:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Decent Reviews of the Linux-powered Palm Phone http://ping.fm/ui5yq http://ping.fm/88i6W | Jun 24 20:47 | |
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| lunchtime | i'm not a gossip | Jun 24 20:47 |
| schestowitz | I know, I know.. | Jun 24 20:47 |
| schestowitz | I think here's the thing | Jun 24 20:47 |
| schestowitz | From experience... | Jun 24 20:47 |
| yuhong | And the 2D driver is obfuscated code. | Jun 24 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Some people (not me) keep it secret in case something goes wrong | Jun 24 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Same applies to exams sometimes | Jun 24 20:47 |
| yuhong | All because Intel IGPs are considered to be sucky. | Jun 24 20:48 |
| schestowitz | They don't want to share agony just in case | Jun 24 20:48 |
| schestowitz | But there are others situations | Jun 24 20:48 |
| schestowitz | So i don't want to imply anything | Jun 24 20:48 |
| schestowitz | The introverts are more like this | Jun 24 20:48 |
| lunchtime | I understand :) | Jun 24 20:48 |
| lunchtime | okay, lunch is over, back to work...bye for now | Jun 24 20:48 |
| *lunchtime has quit ("Page closed") | Jun 24 20:49 | |
| yuhong | bye for now. | Jun 24 20:49 |
| *yuhong has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060310]") | Jun 24 20:49 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz as opposed to netapps, which run a hacked-up NetBSD, or Sun X4500, which run Solaris 10 ;-) | Jun 24 20:52 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Android (Linux) Takes Over More Handsets http://ping.fm/jbfph http://ping.fm/zPX6X | Jun 24 20:52 | |
| ugufjhfj | wow, so much innovations, thanks M$: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-7-Retail-Packaging-Lighter,8133.html | Jun 24 20:54 |
| schestowitz | Vista in a new sandwich. Same drek. | Jun 24 20:56 |
| schestowitz | With Vista they made a good package | Jun 24 20:56 |
| schestowitz | It's hard to open | Jun 24 20:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat Takes on Lockinware Thanks to Alfresco http://ping.fm/WRz0M | Jun 24 20:57 | |
| schestowitz | Like those things that prevent kids from messing about | Jun 24 20:57 |
| schestowitz | The Vista package says "don't use me.. unless you absolutely must... press the fire alarm, twist and shout... but you really want Linux and XP" | Jun 24 20:57 |
| ugufjhfj | for M$: nice package = good OS | Jun 24 21:00 |
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| schestowitz | it's cheaper than rewriting Windows | Jun 24 21:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fair Use-hostile Associated Press Shows Its Hypocrisy http://ping.fm/Qozzg | Jun 24 21:07 | |
| _Hicham_ | I think I can finally build solang of Fedora 11 | Jun 24 21:07 |
| _Hicham_ | *for | Jun 24 21:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Software AG Joins Enemies of Free Software (Software Patents in Europe) http://ping.fm/OEobX | Jun 24 21:12 | |
| *lenti (n=IceChat7@121.216.12.76) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 24 21:53 | |
| *serrre (i=7444497d@gateway/web/freenode/x-c59a47aada934041) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 24 22:02 | |
| serrre | whos | Jun 24 22:03 |
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| *serrre has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) | Jun 24 22:06 | |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20090621/2109485306.shtml "Bijan Sabet is asking a good question. It's one that's been asked plenty of times before, of course, but it remains relevant: why do so few newspapers ever link off of their site? " | Jun 24 22:11 |
| ugufjhfj | ---> Microsoft will launch its Windows 7 free upgrade program for buyers of Vista PCs on Friday, according to a message on a new company Web site. | Jun 24 22:14 |
| ugufjhfj | is Vista free ?! | Jun 24 22:14 |
| *neighborlee (n=neighbor@c-24-16-17-168.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 24 22:20 | |
| schestowitz | Vista is rubbish | Jun 24 22:22 |
| schestowitz | It caused them more harm than not releasing it at all. | Jun 24 22:22 |
| schestowitz | Tarnishing Windows' name | Jun 24 22:22 |
| neighborlee | their own people told them as much..did not listen apparantly ;)( | Jun 24 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: how you doing? | Jun 24 22:26 |
| schestowitz | I want to show you something. | Jun 24 22:26 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickspencer3 | Jun 24 22:27 |
| neighborlee | doing good.. | Jun 24 22:27 |
| neighborlee | how about u | Jun 24 22:27 |
| neighborlee | busy as usual...but good. | Jun 24 22:27 |
| neighborlee | checking momentarily | Jun 24 22:27 |
| MinceR | windows had a name to tarnish? | Jun 24 22:29 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, other than having worked for M$ whats with spencer | Jun 24 22:32 |
| lenti | I was wondering that too. | Jun 24 22:39 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Students to finish degrees by "any means necessary" http://is.gd/1cprV | Jun 24 22:47 | |
| schestowitz | neighborlee: it's where some pro-Mono bias comes from | Jun 24 22:47 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yes, some people think "PC" is "Windows" | Jun 24 22:47 |
| schestowitz | But nobody thinks a PC is Vista. It's horrible | Jun 24 22:47 |
| schestowitz | lenti: Mutex? | Jun 24 22:48 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.248.133.182) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 24 22:48 | |
| lenti | ?? | Jun 24 22:48 |
| schestowitz | Why do you change names? | Jun 24 22:48 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : Chameleons | Jun 24 22:49 |
| _Hicham_ | Geeko the gecko | Jun 24 22:49 |
| schestowitz | I can see the client | Jun 24 22:49 |
| schestowitz | And the style's consistent | Jun 24 22:49 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I don't like changing names | Jun 24 22:49 |
| schestowitz | You don't need to | Jun 24 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Mutex came here this morning with a new name | Jun 24 22:50 |
| _Hicham_ | scheswotiz : Khumeini said today that Iran's Protests are financed by the CIA | Jun 24 22:50 |
| schestowitz | He got banned by IP even via mibbit/freenode | Jun 24 22:50 |
| _Hicham_ | *schestowitz | Jun 24 22:50 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: show me the article | Jun 24 22:50 |
| schestowitz | I'd not be surprisised | Jun 24 22:50 |
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| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I seen on Aljazeera | Jun 24 22:51 |
| _Hicham_ | * I seen it | Jun 24 22:51 |
| _Hicham_ | on TV | Jun 24 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Has the US responded to accusations? | Jun 24 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | of course no | Jun 24 22:58 |
| _Hicham_ | that would be a very bad move from them | Jun 24 22:59 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I built solang on Fedora 11 | Jun 24 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Press That Covers Microsoft Also Sponsored by Microsoft, Praises Microsoft < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/24/techflash-sponsored-by-microsoft/ > | Jun 24 22:59 |
| _Hicham_ | F-Spot is having another competitor | Jun 24 22:59 |
| _Hicham_ | do u still love F-Spot? | Jun 24 22:59 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Iran could sponsor protests in the US... about Bush stealing the election :-D | Jun 24 23:00 |
| _Hicham_ | why not | Jun 24 23:00 |
| _Hicham_ | Bush is a thief | Jun 24 23:00 |
| schestowitz | No | Jun 24 23:00 |
| _Hicham_ | and a criminal | Jun 24 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Devour religious man | Jun 24 23:00 |
| schestowitz | He is like the next apostle :-) he might say | Jun 24 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Turns out that he thinks like Blair. I was surprised actually. | Jun 24 23:01 |
| _Hicham_ | he is very different from Blair | Jun 24 23:01 |
| _Hicham_ | Bush is a typical American Gangster | Jun 24 23:01 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz, oh ok yes.I noted that when I started reading it. | Jun 24 23:11 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something else | Jun 24 23:12 |
| neighborlee | sigh why do people need to change names..the should not be ashamed of their views if those views are what they really feel | Jun 24 23:13 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, how does solang compare to gthumb | Jun 24 23:14 |
| neighborlee | im not sure we need to reinvent what already exists..unless gthumb is that far GONE | Jun 24 23:15 |
| _Hicham_ | neighboree : http://debarshiray.multiply.com/journal/item/189/Why_solang | Jun 24 23:15 |
| _Hicham_ | neighborlee : do u want to test it by urself? | Jun 24 23:15 |
| neighborlee | no time atm | Jun 24 23:16 |
| neighborlee | was just asking | Jun 24 23:16 |
| neighborlee | so whats your opinion | Jun 24 23:16 |
| _Hicham_ | it has a small memory footprint | Jun 24 23:16 |
| _Hicham_ | it is great | Jun 24 23:16 |
| _Hicham_ | though it is not easy to compile on Fedora | Jun 24 23:16 |
| neighborlee | how much smaller than gt | Jun 24 23:16 |
| neighborlee | always a plus :) | Jun 24 23:16 |
| _Hicham_ | by the half | Jun 24 23:17 |
| _Hicham_ | and maybe more | Jun 24 23:17 |
| _Hicham_ | I had to do some tricks to compile it on Fedora 11 | Jun 24 23:18 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.pcworld.com/article/167120/hps_touchsmart_printers_print_web_content_no_pc_required.html Wonder if we are lining up for a repeat. Remeber the old word processor things with embed printer. | Jun 24 23:27 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: good job compiling it | Jun 24 23:31 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I worry about the patent plot | Jun 24 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Brother did something similar and the racketeers from MS came knocking on the door for royalties | Jun 24 23:31 |
| oiaohm | I hope so. | Jun 24 23:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Press That Covers Microsoft Also Sponsored by Microsoft, Praises Microsoft < http://ping.fm/Ba6qB > | Jun 24 23:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] On Novell and Turnaround < http://ping.fm/jI8FC > | Jun 24 23:32 | |
| schestowitz | neighborlee: http://www.zdnetasia.com/blogs/mister-tech/0,3800019657,63011699,00.htm | Jun 24 23:32 |
| oiaohm | HP has the patents to take MS of face of earth. | Jun 24 23:32 |
| schestowitz | I know | Jun 24 23:32 |
| schestowitz | They cross-license | Jun 24 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Probably for Linux too, though I'd hate to think so | Jun 24 23:32 |
| schestowitz | They probably don't even specify what's covered | Jun 24 23:32 |
| schestowitz | But this means that small companies selling Linux can be crushed | Jun 24 23:33 |
| oiaohm | HP cross licensing would be interesting. | Jun 24 23:33 |
| oiaohm | If HP is there normal if MS does not respond all HP has to do is release a patch to the Linux kernel for the fat driver and the like and everyone is covered. | Jun 24 23:33 |
| oiaohm | HP cross licensing is normally anything they develop and work on. No OS stated. Same as IBM's. | Jun 24 23:34 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz, ah yes..last ditch effort to regain some ground :)) | Jun 24 23:36 |
| oiaohm | Basically MS has already lost the patent war they just don't know it yet. | Jun 24 23:36 |
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| schestowitz | They have no choice | Jun 24 23:39 |
| schestowitz | What else would they sell? | Jun 24 23:39 |
| schestowitz | They tries Equipt | Jun 24 23:39 |
| schestowitz | it dies | Jun 24 23:39 |
| schestowitz | They tried hardware with DRM (XBox, Zune) and lost $billions | Jun 24 23:39 |
| schestowitz | They tries Web-based services like search and ads | Jun 24 23:40 |
| schestowitz | They lost billions too | Jun 24 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Their cushion of savings is begone | Jun 24 23:40 |
| schestowitz | And they rely on Office and Windows for some more time to figure out what to sell to pay employees' wages | Jun 24 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Office suites already become commodity with ODF | Jun 24 23:40 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft is running out of time. Margins can't stay so high. | Jun 24 23:41 |
| neighborlee | xbox might be going ok ive not checked results..they 'claim' to have a new control device to compete with wiimote | Jun 24 23:41 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Jun 24 23:41 |
| neighborlee | but...xbox drains profits, but games faik are selling | Jun 24 23:41 |
| oiaohm | And MS has failed to kill Linux. | Jun 24 23:41 |
| ThistleWeb | Microsoft do seem to be particularly good at missing new trends until an established hierarchy evolves, without them | Jun 24 23:41 |
| schestowitz | It's NOT going OK | Jun 24 23:41 |
| schestowitz | The whole team is jumping ship now | Jun 24 23:41 |
| schestowitz | The top execs and directors | Jun 24 23:41 |
| ugufjhfj | they are doomed | Jun 24 23:41 |
| schestowitz | They lost like $7 bn in XBox alone | Jun 24 23:41 |
| oiaohm | So there desktop market is still under presure. | Jun 24 23:41 |
| ThistleWeb | they missed the significance of the internet# | Jun 24 23:41 |
| schestowitz | neighborlee: that's with games acvcounted for | Jun 24 23:42 |
| schestowitz | The figures I gave | Jun 24 23:42 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, reallllllllllly I'd not heard that!! | Jun 24 23:42 |
| schestowitz | XBox live and game royalties | Jun 24 23:42 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz, woah that would be huge news... | Jun 24 23:42 |
| oiaohm | Linux is doing like a castle siege | Jun 24 23:42 |
| schestowitz | They said they would become profitable (on a quarterly basis, not making up for colossal losses) | Jun 24 23:42 |
| schestowitz | But in last Q they STILL lost money | Jun 24 23:42 |
| schestowitz | So they move more into the minus, not making up | Jun 24 23:42 |
| oiaohm | You don't need to take the castle just wait for those inside to stave. | Jun 24 23:42 |
| neighborlee | wii and ps3 would explode...well and psp/ds | Jun 24 23:43 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, true that | Jun 24 23:43 |
| schestowitz | ps3 is a disatser financially | Jun 24 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Sony lost a lot of money and made some all-time lows | Jun 24 23:43 |
| schestowitz | But Sony are bastarbs with DRM, rootkits, etc. | Jun 24 23:43 |
| neighborlee | yup I head | Jun 24 23:43 |
| ThistleWeb | the ps3 is hella expensive | Jun 24 23:43 |
| neighborlee | heard | Jun 24 23:43 |
| neighborlee | but they are selling them hugely in japan is it ? | Jun 24 23:43 |
| neighborlee | ThistleWeb, def.ly | Jun 24 23:43 |
| oiaohm | ps3 sells at the price that covers it hardware cost. | Jun 24 23:44 |
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| ThistleWeb | when you pack so much in, there's a point you vant go below in price to get buyers | Jun 24 23:44 |
| neighborlee | yup | Jun 24 23:44 |
| *ThistleWeb is a tad drunk so forgive the spelling | Jun 24 23:44 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: are you sure? | Jun 24 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Did they get production costs down? | Jun 24 23:44 |
| neighborlee | ThistleWeb, heh | Jun 24 23:46 |
| ThistleWeb | I reckon bluray is a huge part of that | Jun 24 23:46 |
| ThistleWeb | cost of parts and licencing | Jun 24 23:46 |
| neighborlee | indeed bluray must be | Jun 24 23:46 |
| neighborlee | what a shame they had to remove backwards compat | Jun 24 23:47 |
| neighborlee | that really hurt | Jun 24 23:47 |
| ThistleWeb | whetver the reason, the ps3 is still hella expensive compared to it's rivals | Jun 24 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Note Xbox 360 sells under production cost. | Jun 24 23:47 |
| neighborlee | well..unless you factor in people having to buy a new ps2 if they want to continue playing those games I guess ;)) | Jun 24 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Wii sells at production cost. | Jun 24 23:47 |
| ThistleWeb | the ps3 and 360 are 50 / 50 on gaming | Jun 24 23:47 |
| neighborlee | but still seen as a minus..considering xbox does do its back compat. | Jun 24 23:47 |
| ThistleWeb | while the 360 is a lot cheaper | Jun 24 23:47 |
| neighborlee | unlesss you factor in xbox decline I guess <EEK> | Jun 24 23:47 |
| neighborlee | so its all kinda ..relative. | Jun 24 23:48 |
| oiaohm | Lot cheaper because MS is losing money on them ThistleWeb | Jun 24 23:48 |
| oiaohm | depending on game sales to make up price. | Jun 24 23:48 |
| ThistleWeb | oiaohm: it's long been the practice of losing money onthe console sales, and making it up on the gameds | Jun 24 23:48 |
| neighborlee | yup | Jun 24 23:48 |
| ThistleWeb | the 360 aint new on this | Jun 24 23:48 |
| _Goblin | another update of Chrome beta.... | Jun 24 23:49 |
| ThistleWeb | way back to the snes (and probs before that) | Jun 24 23:49 |
| _Goblin | Still think its a great browser. | Jun 24 23:49 |
| oiaohm | There is one problem these days lot of people don't buy enough games to cover the difference ThistleWeb | Jun 24 23:49 |
| ThistleWeb | I guess | Jun 24 23:49 |
| ThistleWeb | torrent iso's dont help much lol | Jun 24 23:49 |
| oiaohm | nintendo use to do it a lot too. | Jun 24 23:50 |
| neighborlee | ThistleWeb, indeed | Jun 24 23:50 |
| neighborlee | this economy isn't helping for sure | Jun 24 23:50 |
| oiaohm | sony and nintendo worked out there problem and have cut there idea of selling the console cheep. | Jun 24 23:50 |
| ThistleWeb | yep, even legit gamers are looking at 2nd hand games | Jun 24 23:50 |
| oiaohm | Particularly with ps3 being used for non gaming reasons. | Jun 24 23:50 |
| neighborlee | aren't bluray movies on rise sell wize though ? | Jun 24 23:50 |
| oiaohm | nintendo and sony are both prepaird to wait MS out. | Jun 24 23:51 |
| ThistleWeb | Nintedndo were the smart ones this time round, inovate to give peeps something new as a second console | Jun 24 23:52 |
| schestowitz | MS denies another generation of xBox | Jun 24 23:52 |
| ThistleWeb | much cheaper to make, and develop for | Jun 24 23:52 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, agreee | Jun 24 23:52 |
| neighborlee | eed | Jun 24 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Last year I read about MS quitting the game | Jun 24 23:52 |
| schestowitz | 360 could be the last defeat | Jun 24 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Mostly financial | Jun 24 23:52 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, though activision tried toforce their hand LOL | Jun 24 23:52 |
| ThistleWeb | let sony and M$ fight for the high tech console user | Jun 24 23:52 |
| neighborlee | yeah right ^ | Jun 24 23:52 |
| neighborlee | I meant ^ my comment | Jun 24 23:52 |
| neighborlee | sorry bad timing ;)))) | Jun 24 23:52 |
| oiaohm | Nintendo could have went the high tech console path. | Jun 24 23:53 |
| ThistleWeb | oiaohm: maybe, but they chose not to | Jun 24 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Remember MS Sony and Nintendo all pay IBM for processor. | Jun 24 23:53 |
| ThistleWeb | I'm not sure they could have | Jun 24 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Nintendo built wii cheap. | Jun 24 23:53 |
| oiaohm | They could see the problem coming. | Jun 24 23:54 |
| ThistleWeb | they may have chosen their gamble,m but they may not have had much choice | Jun 24 23:54 |
| ThistleWeb | either way, it turned out to be a blinder | Jun 24 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Also changing to a non standard disk size. | Jun 24 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Made gaming coping harder. | Jun 24 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Nintendo knew exactly what they were upto. | Jun 24 23:54 |
| ThistleWeb | yep | Jun 24 23:55 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm,didn't need to :) | Jun 24 23:55 |
| oiaohm | Nintendo really did not gamble. | Jun 24 23:55 |
| oiaohm | MS and Sony did. | Jun 24 23:56 |
| ThistleWeb | I'd heard nintendo were struggling before the Wii, and it was close to the last throw of the dice, after the gamecube didn't take off | Jun 24 23:56 |
| ThistleWeb | oiaohm: nah, the standard path is "bigger and better" which both sony and microsoft followed | Jun 24 23:56 |
| ThistleWeb | only nintendo stepped off that path | Jun 24 23:56 |
| oiaohm | nintendo built the wii that if only there fans bought it costs of development would have been covered. | Jun 24 23:56 |
| oiaohm | With profit to make next console. | Jun 24 23:57 |
| oiaohm | So nintendo has made a killing out the wii. | Jun 24 23:57 |
| ThistleWeb | the other 2 went for the "only console" spot, where nintendo went for the "second console" spot, as well as casual gamers who the other 2 ignored | Jun 24 23:57 |
| ThistleWeb | whatever the thinking behind it, nintendo played a blinder with the Wii | Jun 24 23:58 |
| oiaohm | Its not the first time nintendo has done this. | Jun 24 23:58 |
| oiaohm | Remember the gameboy. | Jun 24 23:58 |
| neighborlee | ThistleWeb, depends..while many wont care..they might these days..ever seen power requirements for ps3/xbox360 vs wii ? :)))) | Jun 24 23:59 |
| neighborlee | ThistleWeb, it aint pretty | Jun 24 23:59 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, technically inferior, but great games and long battery life | Jun 24 23:59 |
| *Carl_Rover2k12 (n=me@ool-45732edc.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 24 23:59 | |
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| ThistleWeb | neighborlee: nope,but I'm guessing the Wii is much more efficient than the other w | Jun 24 23:59 |
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