| yuhong | It is easier to hack on. | Jun 28 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| yuhong | Less malware. | Jun 28 00:00 |
| _Goblin | ah... | Jun 28 00:00 |
| yuhong | There are many advantages I know of. | Jun 28 00:00 |
| _Goblin | is that hack in a coding sense or "hack" in the naughty sense? | Jun 28 00:00 |
| yuhong | coding, yep that is a common confusion. | Jun 28 00:00 |
| fewa | schestowitz, that netbook distrobution looks good | Jun 28 00:00 |
| _Goblin | no its not yuhong, it just depends which platform you use. | Jun 28 00:01 |
| yuhong | I would have said it is faster hadn't the Vista install be an OEM preload. | Jun 28 00:01 |
| schestowitz | fewa: yes, it's still in alpha but well designed | Jun 28 00:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] An OLPC Story from the United States Too http://ping.fm/dLNAT | Jun 28 00:02 | |
| neutrality if the face of obvious evil is cowardice -> (04:17:06 PM) tacone: neutrality is good | Jun 28 00:02 | |
| _Goblin | So you are trying to say then that its easier to code on linux than use the plethora of high/low level environments of Windows? | Jun 28 00:02 |
| yuhong | What, are you referring to "hacker"? | Jun 28 00:02 |
| schestowitz | With Android gaining ground and with ARM, there's lots of good stuff to come | Jun 28 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 IS too heavy for netbooks | Jun 28 00:02 |
| yuhong | I am talking about open source. | Jun 28 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Not only SJVN showed it | Jun 28 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Alex Reutt the MS fanboi said so too | Jun 28 00:02 |
| schestowitz | They made it fatter in RC (maybe put on the weight... DRM and other 'goodies') | Jun 28 00:02 |
| _Goblin | So what does Open Source on a Linux platform give you that open source on Windows doesnt? | Jun 28 00:02 |
| yuhong | Would be interesting to compare with Vista betas. | Jun 28 00:03 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: he has heardly used Linux | Jun 28 00:03 |
| schestowitz | But we can encourage him to | Jun 28 00:03 |
| _Goblin | that I can believe. | Jun 28 00:03 |
| fewa | schestowitz, anyone have a download link for it? | Jun 28 00:03 |
| schestowitz | It's a lot moe valuable for work | Jun 28 00:03 |
| yuhong | Windows is a propritary platform. | Jun 28 00:03 |
| neighborlee | yes I see the mono supportes are out enmasse on that ubuntu thread ;) | Jun 28 00:03 |
| schestowitz | He only installed Linux... like 2 weeks ago | Jun 28 00:03 |
| _Goblin | are you sure? | Jun 28 00:03 |
| yuhong | And often has silly licensing restrictions like those relating to PAE. | Jun 28 00:03 |
| _Goblin | Sounds like a time waster to me. | Jun 28 00:03 |
| tacone | _Goblin: the chance to hack the window manager ? | Jun 28 00:04 |
| schestowitz | fewa: VistaBeta7? | Jun 28 00:04 |
| schestowitz | RC? | Jun 28 00:04 |
| fewa | schestowitz, no, for jolicloud netbook Linux | Jun 28 00:04 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure it's public | Jun 28 00:04 |
| fewa | it has invite BS | Jun 28 00:04 |
| fewa | but its free software | Jun 28 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jun 28 00:04 |
| schestowitz | But alpha | Jun 28 00:04 |
| schestowitz | No excuse | Jun 28 00:04 |
| _Goblin | tacone: I dont think yuhong knows what he's hacking...or why...or how....He can't even give a definative advantage for using Linux...I dont think he's even used it. | Jun 28 00:04 |
| fewa | fine for a VM | Jun 28 00:04 |
| tacone | _Goblin: does that matter ? | Jun 28 00:05 |
| tacone | sometime people get too much aggressive in this channel | Jun 28 00:05 |
| Vista 7 is Vista, it will fail http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215957 | Jun 28 00:05 | |
| yuhong | I am using PAE on Linux successfully, while doing so on Windows require enterprise server versions. | Jun 28 00:05 |
| fewa | ''enterprise'' | Jun 28 00:06 |
| fewa | ENTERPRISE! | Jun 28 00:06 |
| fewa | OMG ENTERPRISE!!!!11!!! | Jun 28 00:06 |
| yuhong | Yep, that kind of licensing BS do not exist on Linux. | Jun 28 00:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Geeks Turned Free Software to Multi-Million-Dollar Industry http://ping.fm/g88fo | Jun 28 00:07 | |
| _Goblin | tacone: it doesn't matter at all and no agression was intended, however if the future of Linux is going to be users like the current Windows ones, then Linux is doomed (IMO) to a future like Windows, where bloat and one click fixes for those that dont understand are common place. | Jun 28 00:07 |
| yuhong | [ 0.000000] Linux version 2.6.28-13-server (buildd@palmer) (gcc version 4.3.3 | Jun 28 00:07 |
| yuhong | (Ubuntu 4.3.3-5ubuntu4) ) #44-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jun 2 08:47:41 UTC 2009 (Ubuntu 2. | Jun 28 00:07 |
| _Goblin | Heres a theory of mine: | Jun 28 00:07 |
| yuhong | 6.28-13.44-server) | Jun 28 00:07 |
| fewa | _Goblin, yep | Jun 28 00:07 |
| yuhong | The PAE kernel in ubuntu. | Jun 28 00:08 |
| fewa | _Goblin, but the licence helps allllot | Jun 28 00:08 |
| tacone | _Goblin: that's just your opinion | Jun 28 00:08 |
| tacone | _Goblin: you perfectly know the user won't change. | Jun 28 00:08 |
| GNU/Linux already works better than Windows, no fix required. | Jun 28 00:08 | |
| fewa | ^ | Jun 28 00:08 |
| _Goblin | How did the first bedroom coders learn asm? Did they get led by the hand or did they spend years honing their skills? It could be argued that "hand holding" damages inovation and maybe why .net dbpro et all are so popular and deskilling an entire generation. | Jun 28 00:09 |
| tacone | if linux becomes the standars, that doesn't mean the mainstream users will be in anyway different. | Jun 28 00:09 |
| yuhong | Of course now. | Jun 28 00:09 |
| yuhong | Of course not. | Jun 28 00:09 |
| fewa | yuhong, why dont you run 64bit? | Jun 28 00:09 |
| tacone | linux will have to provide 1 click things. and it will. | Jun 28 00:09 |
| fewa | and i didnt think ubunu had a PAE ekrnel, only debian | Jun 28 00:09 |
| fewa | Linux will also have a superior model for fixing problems | Jun 28 00:10 |
| Windows has failed users, not the other way around. Free software serves all kinds of users from people who want to learn asm to the click and run crowd like my wife and kids. | Jun 28 00:10 | |
| fewa | As the distrobution can actually fix security problems | Jun 28 00:10 |
| _Goblin | Tacone: and that will be its downfall (IMO) | Jun 28 00:10 |
| fewa | _Goblin, only if users give up on free software | Jun 28 00:11 |
| _Goblin | tacone: Users and their demands (IMO) are soley responsible for the product of Windows..... | Jun 28 00:11 |
| Then GNU/LInux has already fallen because it already works like that. | Jun 28 00:11 | |
| tacone | _Goblin: that's a respectable opinion, but just an opinion. | Jun 28 00:11 |
| fewa | making things easier is even good for powerusers | Jun 28 00:11 |
| _Goblin | tacone: true... | Jun 28 00:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Will BlackBerry Turn to Free Software to Prevent Windows Mobile-Like Death? http://ping.fm/f6cAk | Jun 28 00:12 | |
| Windows reflects only one user's wishes - Bill Gates. | Jun 28 00:12 | |
| tacone | _Goblin: ultimately linux is good for power users because it makes things easy for power users | Jun 28 00:12 |
| Freedom makes things easy for everyone. | Jun 28 00:12 | |
| tacone | mac osx is unix, but it's not that power user friendly. | Jun 28 00:12 |
| tacone | linux should try to make everything easy for everyone. | Jun 28 00:12 |
| _Goblin | tacone: I think we will agree to differ... | Jun 28 00:12 |
| tacone | the one thing asked to linux is not to close doors to anyone | Jun 28 00:12 |
| Free software is what you want it to be. | Jun 28 00:13 | |
| tacone | linux should not be a copy of windows, of course. | Jun 28 00:13 |
| _Goblin | tacone: but free software and its ethos already exists on the Windows platform... | Jun 28 00:13 |
| tacone | but could find its own ways to be friendly to anyone. and to be customizable for anyone. | Jun 28 00:13 |
| _Goblin | tacone: Windows is simply the launchpad... | Jun 28 00:13 |
| fewa | We need to continue to give everyone power to develop and help users | Jun 28 00:13 |
| fewa | this will prevent egregious crime from being commited | Jun 28 00:13 |
| tacone | i hope we can educate users, at least a part of them. and build a culture | Jun 28 00:14 |
| tacone | but ultimately what matters is the culture amongst the developers | Jun 28 00:14 |
| fewa | exactly, a moral standard of development | Jun 28 00:14 |
| _Goblin | tacone: Where I think I differ from many Linux fans opinion, is that I believe "all are welcome" however, I don't believe we should bend our distro to fit them...If they want to learn, they are more than welcome. | Jun 28 00:14 |
| MinceR | unix is power user friendly. if osx is not power user friendly, how can it be possibly power user friendly? | Jun 28 00:15 |
| MinceR | oops | Jun 28 00:15 |
| MinceR | unix is power user friendly. if osx is not power user friendly, how can it be possibly unix? | Jun 28 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Some people's have devs in their family | Jun 28 00:15 |
| tacone | _Goblin: distros don't matter :) it's the right to customize or create distros that matters :) | Jun 28 00:15 |
| schestowitz | they need to have peers who can programmer | Jun 28 00:15 |
| schestowitz | They don't need to code | Jun 28 00:15 |
| schestowitz | *program | Jun 28 00:16 |
| fewa | schestowitz, or just an open market to have their problems fixed | Jun 28 00:16 |
| tacone | MinceR: compile on mac osx | Jun 28 00:16 |
| tacone | you have to download deps one by one. | Jun 28 00:16 |
| tacone | i won't even try. | Jun 28 00:16 |
| MinceR | i think calling osx "unix" is a mistake. | Jun 28 00:16 |
| MinceR | the open group's gross mismanagement of the brand notwithstanding. | Jun 28 00:17 |
| yuhong | Anyway, I don't think there is anything unethical in Apple's PR, unlike MS. | Jun 28 00:17 |
| fewa | MinceR, it does ship with X11 now | Jun 28 00:17 |
| MinceR | so you think lying about the support of DRM is ethical, yuhong? | Jun 28 00:17 |
| yuhong | I don't think that is a lie. | Jun 28 00:17 |
| MinceR | fewa: an X11 server that runs under retardgui? | Jun 28 00:17 |
| tacone | MinceR: maybe. but it's posix. | Jun 28 00:17 |
| *schestowitz run ~/sleep.sh | Jun 28 00:17 | |
| fewa | yuhong, or suing for copyright infringement those that simply want to interoperate? | Jun 28 00:17 |
| yuhong | I know, but that is not related to PE. | Jun 28 00:18 |
| MinceR | yuhong: do you think their recent anti-palm patent FUD was ethical? | Jun 28 00:18 |
| tacone | drm is fair. not giving rights and means to reverse engineer is bad | Jun 28 00:18 |
| tacone | gpl3 has some insights on that. | Jun 28 00:18 |
| MinceR | yuhong: do you think pushing for sw patents in the EU is ethical? | Jun 28 00:18 |
| yuhong | I was referring to Apple's PR only, patents are different matter. | Jun 28 00:18 |
| MinceR | i'd argue their patent FUD was PR. | Jun 28 00:19 |
| MinceR | after all it didn't go beyond messages in the press. | Jun 28 00:19 |
| fewa | tacone, DRM is not fair when they lie to users, telling them that they purchaced something when they have little ability to use it | Jun 28 00:19 |
| MinceR | it couldn't, and crApple knew that very well. | Jun 28 00:19 |
| yuhong | I already discussed Apple's PR on DRM above, and don't think it is a lie. | Jun 28 00:19 |
| MinceR | i'm talking about their FUD on palm infringing on their patents. | Jun 28 00:19 |
| MinceR | somehow forgetting to mention that they also infringe on palm's patents. | Jun 28 00:20 |
| tacone | fewa: that's another thing. | Jun 28 00:20 |
| fewa | tacone, and the ability and past history of making the things these customers "purchased" go away | Jun 28 00:20 |
| yuhong | I know. | Jun 28 00:20 |
| yuhong | I know that kind of thing, I mean.. | Jun 28 00:20 |
| tacone | fewa: i know how bad drm is | Jun 28 00:20 |
| fewa | tacone, sry for telling it at you | Jun 28 00:20 |
| tacone | you don't need to explain me once again. | Jun 28 00:21 |
| tacone | :) | Jun 28 00:21 |
| fewa | but companies need to be responsible for disclosing the limitations of their products | Jun 28 00:21 |
| fewa | not just hiding it in a click-through | Jun 28 00:21 |
| tacone | drm is basically webservice+encryption | Jun 28 00:21 |
| _Goblin | sorry afk there....smoke... | Jun 28 00:21 |
| tacone | both has fair uses | Jun 28 00:21 |
| tacone | and bad uses | Jun 28 00:21 |
| _Goblin | DRM is to be blamed on the disregard of users to copyright law (rightly or wrongly) | Jun 28 00:22 |
| _Goblin | IMO if users acted within the rules DRM woul not be needed... | Jun 28 00:22 |
| _Goblin | thats not saying those "rules" are right. | Jun 28 00:22 |
| _Goblin | but law is something we cannot "cherry pick" the best bits... | Jun 28 00:23 |
| tacone | the problem with drm is really a customer rights problem | Jun 28 00:23 |
| MinceR | if some fascist control freaks didn't want to force the users to do only the things they want them to do, DRM would not be needed. | Jun 28 00:23 |
| _Goblin | we either obey it or not. | Jun 28 00:23 |
| tacone | the root is not about drm. is about what companies are allowed to impose. | Jun 28 00:23 |
| MinceR | there are lots of problems with law, btw | Jun 28 00:23 |
| _Goblin | true, but would they need to impose anything if users we not disregarding copyright law in the first place? | Jun 28 00:23 |
| tacone | that's the same thing as 90years copyright. it sucks, but not really a piracy problem | Jun 28 00:24 |
| tacone | the problem is lobbying and monopoly | Jun 28 00:24 |
| fewa | _Goblin, yes | Jun 28 00:24 |
| tacone | why copyright got extended to 90 years in EU in first place ? | Jun 28 00:24 |
| fewa | the publisher lobbies will always want more control | Jun 28 00:24 |
| _Goblin | if people didnt share and everyone bought, DRM would be an expensive pointless exercise... | Jun 28 00:24 |
| tacone | copyright should last 5 years. | Jun 28 00:24 |
| fewa | more length to their exorbinent monopolies | Jun 28 00:24 |
| tacone | patents should last 2 years. | Jun 28 00:24 |
| tacone | fair competitive advantage, and that's all. | Jun 28 00:25 |
| tacone | then you have to work to earn. | Jun 28 00:25 |
| fewa | tacone, if 20 year patents cant help innovation how would shortening their lenth make them any better/ | Jun 28 00:25 |
| _Goblin | and like I say, unfortunately we have to obey the laws...even if we percieve then unjust... | Jun 28 00:25 |
| _Goblin | I personally think speed camera's are wrong, but I'm not going to speed through them to prove a point. | Jun 28 00:25 |
| tacone | fewa: i would abolish patents at all. | Jun 28 00:25 |
| fewa | patents are a very differn't beast from copyrights | Jun 28 00:25 |
| tacone | and every patent, not just software | Jun 28 00:25 |
| fewa | very differnt | Jun 28 00:26 |
| neighborlee | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1198515&highlight=mono < not sure if he knows about this one.. | Jun 28 00:26 |
| neighborlee | or anyone for that matter o-0 | Jun 28 00:26 |
| _Goblin | its funny...TPB fans claim to be fighting the cause for "free data" and innovation, yet mention to most of them about FOSS or patents and you are met with a blank look... | Jun 28 00:27 |
| fewa | who was it that watched that patent video at google earlier? | Jun 28 00:27 |
| tacone | uhm, the community cafee is a war field | Jun 28 00:27 |
| tacone | as for me I'm going to take one beer | Jun 28 00:27 |
| _Goblin | bottom line, people share material to get something for nothing....they are the sole blame for DRM. | Jun 28 00:27 |
| tacone | my house holder plans to sell my house and I have to find another one. | Jun 28 00:28 |
| tacone | i need a beer to forget ;-) | Jun 28 00:28 |
| _Goblin | sorry to hear that. | Jun 28 00:28 |
| tacone | offlining, be back soon | Jun 28 00:28 |
| fewa | _Goblin, why would support a system that doesnt make any sense | Jun 28 00:29 |
| fewa | _Goblin, see this http://techdirt.com/articles/20090618/1858245284.shtml | Jun 28 00:30 |
| fewa | Ian Rogers, CEO of Topspin "copyright is dead...its about providing value" | Jun 28 00:30 |
| _Goblin | I didnt say I supported DRM...the point I was making was that an unjust law cannot be ignored simply because you dont agree. | Jun 28 00:30 |
| fewa | _Goblin, what if Rosa Parks just got off the Bus? | Jun 28 00:31 |
| _Goblin | sorry, what do you mean? | Jun 28 00:31 |
| fewa | what if the civil rights people didnt stand up for equal rights? didnt engague in civil disobediance? | Jun 28 00:32 |
| _Goblin | very good point. but theres a world of difference between equal rights and the ability to share movies/games and music. | Jun 28 00:32 |
| fewa | _Goblin, its about the ability to help your neighbor | Jun 28 00:33 |
| MinceR | 014124 < _Goblin> true, but would they need to impose anything if users we not disregarding copyright law in the first place? | Jun 28 00:33 |
| MinceR | no, but they would anyway | Jun 28 00:33 |
| fewa | _Goblin, that is freedom 2 | Jun 28 00:33 |
| fewa | its about the freedom to use tools to get the job done | Jun 28 00:34 |
| fewa | that is freedom 0 | Jun 28 00:34 |
| _Goblin | yes but a line has to be drawn for the sake of social stability...there are many laws which whilst regarded as minor cannot be challenged in this way, otherwise there would be chaos. | Jun 28 00:34 |
| _Goblin | and the whole system of law collapses... | Jun 28 00:35 |
| fewa | _Goblin, RMS said himself that copyright on creative works, works made for entertainment like games artwork, and fiction could have copyright | Jun 28 00:35 |
| fewa | he proposed 10 years | Jun 28 00:35 |
| fewa | but he also says that these artists should get paid for providing value | Jun 28 00:35 |
| fewa | most artists make their money on shows, not albums | Jun 28 00:35 |
| MinceR | we'd probably better for it if the legal system collapsed. | Jun 28 00:35 |
| _Goblin | the argument (IMO) for pro-file sharing is an argument against capitalism. | Jun 28 00:35 |
| fewa | and the value of buying a copy of music is questionable | Jun 28 00:35 |
| MinceR | it only serves itself. | Jun 28 00:35 |
| fewa | but going to a concert is an experience | Jun 28 00:35 |
| yuhong | Yep, the fundemental flaws of artificial scarity yet again. | Jun 28 00:36 |
| fewa | _Goblin, the arguement for file-sharing is against Govenment granted monopolies | Jun 28 00:36 |
| _Goblin | but then theres a legal option other than breaking the law.... | Jun 28 00:36 |
| fewa | _Goblin, do you favor the government granting exclusive rights to institutions to do certain things | Jun 28 00:36 |
| _Goblin | vote with your feet, dont consume. | Jun 28 00:36 |
| MinceR | the options other than breaking the law are per definition legal. | Jun 28 00:36 |
| fewa | _Goblin, yes, Rosa Parks could have goten off the bus | Jun 28 00:36 |
| fewa | that is a alternative oppurtunity | Jun 28 00:36 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Jun 28 00:37 |
| fewa | what is wrong with people consuming the world collective knowledge? collective culture? | Jun 28 00:37 |
| fewa | _Goblin, how does this hurt anyone? | Jun 28 00:37 |
| _Goblin | when applied to examples such as equal rights/dignity issues, its very easy to highlight a good cause in the name of data freedom, there is though the idea that if consumers are unhappy with monopolies, they can do something immediately by boycotting the products. | Jun 28 00:38 |
| yuhong | I don't think that even that Apple's PR is brainwash, or even that it would be good if apple dies. | Jun 28 00:38 |
| fewa | _Goblin, im not saying that copyright is impossible, but it must be taken in the context of the origional mandate in the constitution | Jun 28 00:38 |
| _Goblin | and I think the fact that the diverse laws of different countries make the position difficult... | Jun 28 00:39 |
| fewa | To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries. | Jun 28 00:39 |
| fewa | That copyright is a selling of congress of peoples rights, as a bargain for more works for the public's use | Jun 28 00:39 |
| *twitter has quit ("Leaving.") | Jun 28 00:39 | |
| yuhong | Yep, copyright is being abused to create artificial scarity which is not good. | Jun 28 00:40 |
| *SeanTilley (i=ad1d7b24@gateway/web/freenode/x-876b960b0ee19160) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 00:40 | |
| _Goblin | for example...if you want to download something without legal ramifications....use the NG's not BT...theres no provision in UK law for that downloading act. | Jun 28 00:40 |
| SeanTilley | Hey, I'm back. | Jun 28 00:40 |
| fewa | _Goblin, if copyright does not promote science and the useful arts then what good is it? | Jun 28 00:40 |
| fewa | and how does making copyright longer and longer, retroactively promote anything but a rape of the public domain | Jun 28 00:41 |
| _Goblin | and thats a good, if separate question. The question being put is, does breaking the law justify the cause of downloading music/movies/games? | Jun 28 00:41 |
| yuhong | What copyright was originally intended for is to prevent other book publishers from reprinting pirated books. | Jun 28 00:41 |
| fewa | _Goblin, copyright is used for far more than that | Jun 28 00:42 |
| _Goblin | very true. | Jun 28 00:42 |
| SeanTilley | Sadly. | Jun 28 00:42 |
| _Goblin | and we have to hope that each case is tret on its merits in a fair and just way. | Jun 28 00:42 |
| SeanTilley | I just hate how patents are viewed to function like copyright. | Jun 28 00:42 |
| SeanTilley | By huge corporations. | Jun 28 00:42 |
| _Goblin | true, but the patent issue is very different.... | Jun 28 00:42 |
| fewa | they cant | Jun 28 00:42 |
| fewa | SeanTilley, agreed | Jun 28 00:43 |
| fewa | SeanTilley, but its actually te opposite, they want copyrights to function more like indefinite patents | Jun 28 00:43 |
| SeanTilley | Ah, that's it. | Jun 28 00:43 |
| fewa | SeanTilley, as slowers of innovation | Jun 28 00:43 |
| SeanTilley | Thank you. | Jun 28 00:43 |
| SeanTilley | However, regardless of who is emulating who, it's still largely problematic. | Jun 28 00:43 |
| SeanTilley | Both are, in a lot of ways. | Jun 28 00:44 |
| _Goblin | but have copyrights slowed innovation? | Jun 28 00:44 |
| yuhong | I know, the nonsense of lumping copyright and patents together called "intellectual property". | Jun 28 00:44 |
| fewa | thats the "look and feel" lawsuit of Apple v Microsoft | Jun 28 00:44 |
| SeanTilley | Ugh, yep. | Jun 28 00:44 |
| fewa | _Goblin, yes | Jun 28 00:44 |
| _Goblin | examples? | Jun 28 00:44 |
| SeanTilley | There was a lawsuit going on a couple months ago by a company that tried to patent icons or something like that. | Jun 28 00:44 |
| fewa | _Goblin, clearly, in this modern age, yes | Jun 28 00:44 |
| SeanTilley | Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Adobe were all being sued for it. | Jun 28 00:45 |
| _Goblin | and obviously that hasnt come to fruition has it... | Jun 28 00:45 |
| fewa | _Goblin, they shut down MP3.com, a site where unsigned artists published origional works | Jun 28 00:45 |
| yuhong | Began when MS tried to take advantage of the fact that it was a Mac software vendor to get info need to copy Mac to create Windows. | Jun 28 00:45 |
| SeanTilley | At least there's still Jamendo. | Jun 28 00:45 |
| _Goblin | and theres plenty more out there now. | Jun 28 00:45 |
| yuhong | I told you that the MS-Apple relationship was very interesting. | Jun 28 00:45 |
| fewa | _Goblin, they sue anyone what has a fiction book that at all has the plot of a copyright work such as Harry Potter | Jun 28 00:45 |
| SeanTilley | J.K Rowling is my least favorite author because of that. | Jun 28 00:45 |
| fewa | _Goblin, if these had these rules at the time of Shakespear he would have never been able to write his plays | Jun 28 00:45 |
| yuhong | Back in 1983. | Jun 28 00:46 |
| SeanTilley | She's pathetic for the sheer amount of fan works she's tried to shut down, usually free ones. | Jun 28 00:46 |
| fewa | _Goblin, he would be sued off the face of the earth | Jun 28 00:46 |
| _Goblin | and one could argue if you are using someone elses character, its hardly innovative. | Jun 28 00:46 |
| fewa | _Goblin, if you write a new theme on it | Jun 28 00:46 |
| _Goblin | if on the otherhand Tolken had tried to sue Rowlins, then I'd agree | Jun 28 00:46 |
| fewa | _Goblin, using your own wit, | Jun 28 00:46 |
| SeanTilley | _Goblin: On the contrary, I think taking prexisting characters and putting them in new situations CAN be original | Jun 28 00:46 |
| SeanTilley | Take a look at Philip Jose Pharmer. | Jun 28 00:46 |
| SeanTilley | He took Doc Holiday and Tarzan, and put them together in several novels. | Jun 28 00:46 |
| fewa | _Goblin, and you have to ask the oppositequestion. How does preventing someone for using anothers character in a innovative new way not harm culture and art? | Jun 28 00:47 |
| fewa | Even the retelling of a classic story is very artful | Jun 28 00:47 |
| fewa | very valuable, and interesting to the public | Jun 28 00:48 |
| SeanTilley | It all depends on implementation. | Jun 28 00:48 |
| fewa | Canturbery tales, Shakespeare, they all do this | Jun 28 00:48 |
| fewa | they would all be sued off the face of the earyh | Jun 28 00:48 |
| fewa | the Disney forture is based on this | Jun 28 00:48 |
| _Goblin | it neednt, however the point I was making was that copyright (not patent) is in no way responsible for complete loss of innovation, and one could argue that with creative sorts being forced down the route of avoiding others copyrights actually produces even more innovative products. | Jun 28 00:49 |
| fewa | they copied everyone, but as soon as they gained status, they then tried to prevent copititon, stifle art and culture | Jun 28 00:49 |
| SeanTilley | I believe that copyright is misused alot anymore, though. | Jun 28 00:49 |
| fewa | _Goblin, but can YOU argue that, with a straight face? | Jun 28 00:49 |
| _Goblin | I think I could if I was paid enough to represent it. | Jun 28 00:49 |
| _Goblin | ;) | Jun 28 00:50 |
| SeanTilley | There was a TED talk about this somewhere, I think Lawrence Lessig was the speaker. | Jun 28 00:50 |
| fewa | exactly | Jun 28 00:50 |
| SeanTilley | Talked about a Read/Write culture and the problems of it. | Jun 28 00:50 |
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| SeanTilley | http://www.ted.com/talks/larry_lessig_says_the_law_is_strangling_creativity.html | Jun 28 00:50 |
| SeanTilley | That one. | Jun 28 00:50 |
| tacone1 | back | Jun 28 00:50 |
| _Goblin | I think though it distracts from the main crux of what I was saying, even if we agree that copyright completely destroys innovation, we cannot argue that to do so infringes on law...until that changes anything else is by the by, and I certainly dont think the way to change it is to throw the laws in the face of those who enforce them. | Jun 28 00:51 |
| _Goblin | and I don't the TPB are the ones to bring about change... | Jun 28 00:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] f is keeping us awake but has said a pile of new words! damn her cuteness. bed now. conservative club disco has finished too. thank fuck. | Jun 28 00:52 | |
| tacone1 | the ubuntuforums thread is already growing | Jun 28 00:52 |
| tacone1 | i wish i | Jun 28 00:52 |
| tacone1 | err | Jun 28 00:52 |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 28 00:52 | |
| tacone1 | nevermind | Jun 28 00:52 |
| yuhong | And yes, the Apple cult is well known. | Jun 28 00:53 |
| _Goblin | btw great discussion....I enjoyedd it greatly. | Jun 28 00:53 |
| SeanTilley | lol | Jun 28 00:53 |
| fewa | _Goblin, actually under us law, the constitution, if Copyright and Patents do not "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts" they they are not authorized | Jun 28 00:53 |
| fewa | just to say that | Jun 28 00:54 |
| _Goblin | and I think one of the many issues is the diversity between countries and their laws... | Jun 28 00:54 |
| MinceR | then all sw patents are invalid there. | Jun 28 00:54 |
| _Goblin | for example, I dont believe TPB would have been found guilty in the UK. | Jun 28 00:54 |
| fewa | you just have to convince the 9 members of the supreme court | Jun 28 00:54 |
| MinceR | but nobody will attack them that way. | Jun 28 00:54 |
| _Goblin | or certainly not of the charges they were. | Jun 28 00:55 |
| MinceR | the supreme court is probably bought and paid for anyway. | Jun 28 00:55 |
| fewa | MinceR, i certainly wont take that position | Jun 28 00:55 |
| fewa | MinceR, the supreme court justices are of a older generation, they do not fully understand the impact of these laws on current society | Jun 28 00:56 |
| fewa | MinceR, also justices are appointed for life, by design its impossible to buy them off | Jun 28 00:56 |
| tacone1 | omf. gparted out of the ubuntu live cd | Jun 28 00:56 |
| fewa | one of the brillient moves of the constitution | Jun 28 00:56 |
| MinceR | fewa: i doubt that's a sufficient guarantee. | Jun 28 00:57 |
| MinceR | they can still be appointed and they can still use money. | Jun 28 00:57 |
| yuhong | On patents, here is a problem that I really want to talk about. | Jun 28 00:57 |
| yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/16/gates-on-linux-patents/ | Jun 28 00:57 |
| tacone1 | no, i was wrong | Jun 28 00:58 |
| yuhong | And it is not just MS. I know that Amazon, Facebook, and Apple are victums too. | Jun 28 00:58 |
| fewa | MinceR, a patent case has not been brought before the supreme court for a number of years | Jun 28 00:59 |
| fewa | just wait and read the In Re Bilski decision when it comes out | Jun 28 01:00 |
| fewa | conservative wheels move slow | Jun 28 01:01 |
| yuhong | http://techdirt.com/articles/20090129/0331363567.shtml | Jun 28 01:03 |
| fewa | State Street was "it produces a useful, concrete and tangible result.", and was not set by the supreme court | Jun 28 01:04 |
| yuhong | Actually, that is not exactly what I want. Let me dig depper. | Jun 28 01:05 |
| fewa | but by the court of appeals for the federal circuit, which is a patent court | Jun 28 01:05 |
| fewa | IE a pro-patent court | Jun 28 01:05 |
| yuhong | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070308/192011.shtml | Jun 28 01:05 |
| fewa | created by congress, at the proposal of lobbiests, because the normal courts struct down too many of their patents (in their opinion) | Jun 28 01:06 |
| yuhong | Actually, that first one is good also. | Jun 28 01:06 |
| yuhong | What do you think about that problem. | Jun 28 01:06 |
| fewa | MinceR, watch that google video if you have not http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0chez_Jf5A | Jun 28 01:07 |
| MinceR | i'll watch it later. what is it about? | Jun 28 01:07 |
| Ng | tacone1: that would be a pretty unlikely move ;) | Jun 28 01:07 |
| fewa | MinceR, "Protecting Freedom In The Patent System" | Jun 28 01:08 |
| fewa | It has a good abstract on the sidebar | Jun 28 01:08 |
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| tacone1 | Ng: the new partitioner sucks. they got rid of it in Ubuntu netbook remix | Jun 28 01:08 |
| tacone1 | and even apt-getting it doesn't work | Jun 28 01:08 |
| tacone1 | I don't want it to be gone. | Jun 28 01:09 |
| tacone1 | but i was wrong, btw. it's still there. i misread | Jun 28 01:09 |
| Ng | as I said, getting rid of gparted in the live cd would be a pretty strange move. partitioning tools are exceptionally valuable in a live CD environment :) | Jun 28 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | hi oiaohm | Jun 28 01:10 |
| _Hicham_ | wb | Jun 28 01:10 |
| Ng | UNR is a very pointless place to have gparted by default though | Jun 28 01:10 |
| _Hicham_ | gparted is a great partitioner | Jun 28 01:10 |
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| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_ | Jun 28 01:11 |
| _Hicham_ | how r u doing | Jun 28 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | Jun 28 01:13 |
| tacone1 | the new partitioner suck | Jun 28 01:13 |
| tacone1 | sucks | Jun 28 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | didn't see this partitioner | Jun 28 01:13 |
| tacone1 | and installing on netbook remix gives up a HAL error when you try to launch it. | Jun 28 01:14 |
| _Hicham_ | I left Ubuntu for a while | Jun 28 01:14 |
| tacone1 | installing gparted, i meant | Jun 28 01:14 |
| oiaohm | http://lwn.net/Articles/338942/ LOL | Jun 28 01:16 |
| oiaohm | Yes how to avoid fat patent is a laugh | Jun 28 01:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Andre Da Costa posting as Mr Dee on Cnet? http://tinyurl.com/kp3d9g #microsoft #vista #windows #linux #7 #windows7 | Jun 28 01:17 | |
| fewa | oiaohm, lol | Jun 28 01:18 |
| tacone1 | foreigner newspapers still thing that a sex scandal is enough to make berlusconi resign | Jun 28 01:21 |
| tacone1 | they have no clue. | Jun 28 01:21 |
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| fewa | http://lwn.net/Articles/338943/ | Jun 28 01:42 |
| fewa | " Basically we needed to minimise the | Jun 28 01:42 |
| fewa | chance of triggering a bug in WindowsXP where some values would | Jun 28 01:42 |
| fewa | cause XP to crash with a blue screen" | Jun 28 01:42 |
| fewa | shitty microsoft code | Jun 28 01:43 |
| oiaohm | Most people are not aware that the Linux foundation has a full time patent lawyers to deal with patent issues. | Jun 28 01:52 |
| fewa | sadly thats the cost of doing business in this day and age (i supose) | Jun 28 01:53 |
| MinceR | company with the funniest name ever >> http://eternalremont.blogspot.com/2009/06/gazprom-invests-in-nigaz.html | Jun 28 01:54 |
| oiaohm | Most of the time they are using to create patent loop holes. | Jun 28 01:54 |
| fewa | MinceR, lolol | Jun 28 01:55 |
| fewa | thats the most racist thing I have seen all day | Jun 28 01:55 |
| fewa | its actually not funny | Jun 28 01:55 |
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| fewa | well they probably dont know that its american slang | Jun 28 01:57 |
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| SeanTilley | Aaand we're back. | Jun 28 04:21 |
| SeanTilley | So apparently the Gnote developer is a bit of a hothead. | Jun 28 04:22 |
| SeanTilley | http://identi.ca/notice/5810452 | Jun 28 04:23 |
| SeanTilley | http://identi.ca/notice/5813651 | Jun 28 04:24 |
| SeanTilley | http://identi.ca/notice/5815507 | Jun 28 04:24 |
| SeanTilley | I'm really kind of surprised he's not Anti-Mono. | Jun 28 04:24 |
| SeanTilley | I mean, I still appreciate his efforts and all. | Jun 28 04:24 |
| SeanTilley | But I'm kind of surprised at how rude and condescending he was about it. | Jun 28 04:24 |
| Why be surprised? He's using Gtk. | Jun 28 04:35 | |
| You can only imagine the trolling the guy has gotten for his efforts. | Jun 28 04:36 | |
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| fewa | meh let him have his peace | Jun 28 04:36 |
| The goal of moving away from mono can also be performance. | Jun 28 04:37 | |
| When those goals align with freedom you just have to sit back and be happy. | Jun 28 04:37 | |
| fewa | http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200906/errord/errorrr.jpg lol Windows | Jun 28 04:37 |
| SeanTilley | I can't help but be disappointed a little, though. | Jun 28 04:38 |
| SeanTilley | I was trying to be all nice and do him a favor, and promptly got stepped on. | Jun 28 04:38 |
| SeanTilley | Ah well. | Jun 28 04:38 |
| Don't worry, be happy. | Jun 28 04:38 | |
| SeanTilley | Thanks, man. | Jun 28 04:38 |
| People under troll attack have a hard time telling offers of help from subtle attacks and time wasting. | Jun 28 04:39 | |
| fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9K4BKkLaCI | Jun 28 04:40 |
| SeanTilley | twitter: I guess you're right. | Jun 28 04:40 |
| All in all, people are understanding the mono threat. | Jun 28 04:40 | |
| SeanTilley | And RMS' explanation was flat-out excellent. | Jun 28 04:40 |
| SeanTilley | Clarified a lot of things. | Jun 28 04:40 |
| RMS has said essentially the same thing before. He was a little more direct this time. | Jun 28 04:41 | |
| fewa | along with that commont you mentioned twitter | Jun 28 04:41 |
| Roy has been saying these things for years. | Jun 28 04:41 | |
| It is satisfying to see people realize the threat before real harm is done. | Jun 28 04:41 | |
| fewa | its the difference between Linux having support for FAT and having it installed by default | Jun 28 04:41 |
| SeanTilley | Good point. | Jun 28 04:42 |
| SeanTilley | Although... | Jun 28 04:42 |
| SeanTilley | I honestly haven't used FAT in years. | Jun 28 04:42 |
| That's probably the worst case for M$ and friends, to have worked right to the threshold of success only to have their little trap disarmed. They wasted the maximum amount of resources. | Jun 28 04:43 | |
| SeanTilley | Not even back when I used Windows. | Jun 28 04:43 |
| SeanTilley | Yeah. | Jun 28 04:43 |
| fewa | but those FSs were implemented before the TomTom case | Jun 28 04:43 |
| fewa | and now we know that M$ is a patent agreessor | Jun 28 04:43 |
| fewa | so we should be more cautious | Jun 28 04:43 |
| FAT is commonly used in cameras, USB fobs and other devices. GNU/Linux needs it as a way to talk to these unfriendly systems. | Jun 28 04:43 | |
| SeanTilley | Apple could be just as guilty. | Jun 28 04:43 |
| SeanTilley | Knowing the amount of patents they're holding. | Jun 28 04:44 |
| fewa | yeah SeanTilley you probably use FAT or FAT32 on a daily basis in a digital camera | Jun 28 04:44 |
| SeanTilley | I hadn't even thought of that. | Jun 28 04:44 |
| The FAT attack is against device makers. They must toe the line or be punished. | Jun 28 04:44 | |
| oiaohm | Recent patches in the Lkml has way around fat problem. | Jun 28 04:44 |
| fewa | however FAT is not microsoft, only FAT32 do they claim | Jun 28 04:44 |
| SeanTilley | Oh. | Jun 28 04:44 |
| oiaohm | Not FAT32 | Jun 28 04:44 |
| fewa | most cameras use msdos FAT only | Jun 28 04:44 |
| oiaohm | What is patented is how the short filename is formed from the long file name. | Jun 28 04:44 |
| It is a weapon against commercial use of free software, until device makers get smart and dump FAT for any of the good replacements. | Jun 28 04:45 | |
| oiaohm | Turns out Windows will handle nulled out short filename. | Jun 28 04:45 |
| If device makers do this as an industry group, M$ is screwed. | Jun 28 04:45 | |
| fewa | meh FAT16 is a good FS for simple devices like Digital cameras | Jun 28 04:45 |
| SeanTilley | What are the alternatives for cameras anyways? | Jun 28 04:45 |
| oiaohm | So Linux can interact with FAT without using the patented code. | Jun 28 04:45 |
| fewa | but if they use Linux its reasonable to use ext2 which there is a windows driver for | Jun 28 04:45 |
| oiaohm | Issue over fat will basically disappear. | Jun 28 04:46 |
| There are several free formats optimized for flash devices. I can't think of them off the top of my head. | Jun 28 04:46 | |
| even ext2 is OK. | Jun 28 04:46 | |
| fewa | yeah, FAT is a fine FS, it is very simple, and completely obvious | Jun 28 04:46 |
| SeanTilley | Is it possible to format ext2 on existing cameras, such as hard-drive based ones? | Jun 28 04:46 |
| fewa | SeanTilley, yes, but the OS will probably not support it | Jun 28 04:46 |
| I'm not sure - the camera has to be able to read it. | Jun 28 04:46 | |
| oiaohm | Firmware has to support it. | Jun 28 04:46 |
| fewa | athough i had one SD card that would crash my sheevaplug if i formatted it ext2 | Jun 28 04:47 |
| The camera maker can do this because they have the software in the first place. | Jun 28 04:47 | |
| fewa | that was wierd but it only happened with one card | Jun 28 04:47 |
| SeanTilley | Yeah. | Jun 28 04:47 |
| All cameras for Winblows come with a CD and drivers anyway. | Jun 28 04:47 | |
| fewa | but FAT is a very simple, IMHO unpatentably obvious, filesystem | Jun 28 04:47 |
| oiaohm | FAT file system core is not patented. | Jun 28 04:47 |
| SeanTilley | Well, that's not too bad. | Jun 28 04:47 |
| fewa | well the whole thing is unpatentable IMHO | Jun 28 04:48 |
| fewa | including log file names | Jun 28 04:48 |
| oiaohm | The patented sections is linked purely to long and short filename. | Jun 28 04:48 |
| The makers can do as they please, so long as they act as an industry. If they act one at a time, M$ can punish them by breaking their devices like they broke Intel graphics chips. | Jun 28 04:48 | |
| fewa | oiaohm, yeah the patch was an excellent work-around | Jun 28 04:48 |
| oiaohm | Ie how to create short filenames from long. | Jun 28 04:48 |
| I have a feeling that Intel will not forgive M$ for that one. | Jun 28 04:48 | |
| SeanTilley | On a slightly seperate hardware note, the Gallium3D project looks really promising for FOSS Grahpics drivers. | Jun 28 04:49 |
| SeanTilley | Mainly Nouveau and Radeon | Jun 28 04:49 |
| fewa | twitter, industry is the automated production of physical goods | Jun 28 04:49 |
| oiaohm | DRI2 KMS and Gallium3d all are changing important things in the graphical stack SeanTilley | Jun 28 04:50 |
| SeanTilley | I've read some of the documentation for Gallium, though. | Jun 28 04:50 |
| SeanTilley | Brilliant stuff. | Jun 28 04:50 |
| I have not seen that. I hope it succeeds. | Jun 28 04:50 | |
| SeanTilley | Things are going to definitely improve in ways no one expected within the next year. | Jun 28 04:50 |
| oiaohm | Not exaclty how no one expected. | Jun 28 04:51 |
| time to move computers. brb | Jun 28 04:51 | |
| oiaohm | Things are about 6 months behind what I timelined a year ago SeanTilley | Jun 28 04:51 |
| SeanTilley | Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure the community in general isn't expecting FOSS dirvers to improve so much. | Jun 28 04:51 |
| SeanTilley | *drivers | Jun 28 04:51 |
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| fewa | http://eupat.ffii.org/papers/europarl0309/ The European Parliament, rejecting software patents in 2003, voted to define “industry” as “automated production of material goods”. | Jun 28 04:51 |
| SeanTilley | oiaohm: Well, I'm just an optimist I guess. | Jun 28 04:51 |
| oiaohm | cuse is a big change in 2.6.31 | Jun 28 04:51 |
| SeanTilley | You mean FUSE? | Jun 28 04:52 |
| oiaohm | No I mean Cuse | Jun 28 04:52 |
| SeanTilley | What's that? | Jun 28 04:52 |
| oiaohm | Char based devices done in userspace. | Jun 28 04:52 |
| SeanTilley | Wow. | Jun 28 04:52 |
| oiaohm | Now we just need buse and all driver types will be doable userspace. | Jun 28 04:53 |
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| SeanTilley | Nice. | Jun 28 04:53 |
| oiaohm | cuse and buse are both sub projects of fuse. | Jun 28 04:53 |
| SeanTilley | Well, I sure hope this stuff gets included into the next linux-libre kernel release. | Jun 28 04:54 |
| SeanTilley | Sounds really exciting. | Jun 28 04:54 |
| fewa | thats cool | Jun 28 04:54 |
| oiaohm | cuse being mainline also will see some old drivers being pushed out of kernel space and into userspace. | Jun 28 04:54 |
| SeanTilley | brb, now I have to switch computers. | Jun 28 04:54 |
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| oiaohm | Also make backporting of some drivers simpler. | Jun 28 04:55 |
| fewa | exposure of kernel driver interfaces to userspace | Jun 28 04:55 |
| fewa | in a sane manner | Jun 28 04:55 |
| oiaohm | Linux is slowly turning hybred. | Jun 28 04:55 |
| oiaohm | Somewhere between microkernel and monolitchic. | Jun 28 04:55 |
| fewa | practicalithic | Jun 28 04:56 |
| fewa | instead of fundamentatheoreaticianistic | Jun 28 04:56 |
| oiaohm | Realtime support also makes userspace drivers more operational. | Jun 28 04:56 |
| fewa | never thought of that | Jun 28 04:57 |
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| just how screwed up US health care is and why, as told by an industry insider. http://www.prwatch.org/node/8422 | Jun 28 05:02 | |
| fewa | Un-Cooperative: The Trouble with Conrad's Compromise http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_treatment/archive/2009/06/14/hacker.aspx | Jun 28 05:03 |
| fewa | Paul Krugman - Health Care Showdown http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/22/opinion/22krugman.html?_r=2 | Jun 28 05:03 |
| fewa | and here is a good economic look with perspective - Elizabeth Warren - The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A | Jun 28 05:06 |
| fewa | she currently heads the TARP committee | Jun 28 05:07 |
| fewa | that large non-discretionary spending items, such as health-care threaten to derail the middle class. | Jun 28 05:08 |
| tessier | http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2009/06/22/gates-buys-feynmans-messenger-lectures/ | Jun 28 05:12 |
| fewa | twitter, wow, what an article | Jun 28 05:12 |
| tessier | First thing billg has done which really seems to have no ulterior motives. | Jun 28 05:12 |
| I'll believe there are no ulterior motives when the lectures are released in ogg theora along with a Windows update to allow playing of the same. | Jun 28 05:14 | |
| fewa | look at the comment: "these lectures were up on google video approx. two years ago. and then the videos were removed. i hope it becomes free for public-viewing soon." | Jun 28 05:19 |
| fewa | speeches so long ago, by someone who has passed away, belong to the public, not rich individuals | Jun 28 05:20 |
| there's no troll like a busted troll http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1283973&cid=28501115 | Jun 28 05:36 | |
| In the above thread, they basically brag about monitoring conversation here or my every post to Slashdot. | Jun 28 05:37 | |
| very creepy. | Jun 28 05:37 | |
| neighborlee | twitter, thx for heads up on prwatch article..corruption is rampant in government...god knows elsewhere...but I suspect this is going to superCHARGE the debate now and maybe make it alot harder for anyone to vote health care reform down...unless they really do succeed at shooting down his credibility ;0-judging by this article that seems rather unlikely ;0-..as if being healthy is only the right of those with enough money..maybe g | Jun 28 05:45 |
| neighborlee | od/creator-- should start chargiing us for USE=universe air water fire earth or something....this is going to be very interesting to see if this REforms the current debate :) | Jun 28 05:45 |
| neighborlee | if there is anyone left that is after the sex scandals take their damage :) | Jun 28 05:46 |
| fewa | neighborlee, this is a matter of life or death to the middle class | Jun 28 05:46 |
| neighborlee | fewa, is that all | Jun 28 05:46 |
| fewa | of many things | Jun 28 05:46 |
| fewa | its not just one person, one bit of corruption, its multitudes of it | Jun 28 05:47 |
| neighborlee | no kidding ;) | Jun 28 05:48 |
| Google mocks Bing. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/27/google_mocks_microsoft_online_infrastructure/ | Jun 28 05:48 | |
| neighborlee | omg..not to mention the HIT wall street is going to take for this :)) | Jun 28 05:48 |
| fewa | but if it destroys the middle class, if it means the death of millions who cannot afford health insurance | Jun 28 05:49 |
| neighborlee | hm I dont see anything special about bing atm maybe im too used to google not sure atm | Jun 28 05:49 |
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| fewa | neighborlee, thats the point. "If you Bing for it," he would say, "you can find it." | Jun 28 05:50 |
| neighborlee | :) | Jun 28 05:50 |
| fewa | according to Google's Vijay Gill | Jun 28 05:50 |
| Gill's punchline is accurate. Compare http://www.bing.com/search?q=+The+Data+Center+as+a+Computer&go=Submit&form=QBLH | Jun 28 05:51 | |
| and | Jun 28 05:51 | |
| neighborlee | I yearn for the day , we have ONE class | Jun 28 05:51 |
| http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=+The+Data+Center+as+a+Computer&aq=f&oq=&aqi= | Jun 28 05:51 | |
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| bing is completely clueless | Jun 28 05:51 | |
| SeanTilley | twitter: I agree. It also looks like a search engine for children. | Jun 28 05:52 |
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| There's nothing wrong with nice things for children. There's a lot wrong with their search engine. | Jun 28 05:52 | |
| SeanTilley | Right, I'm just saying though. | Jun 28 05:52 |
| SeanTilley | A horrid design aesthetic. | Jun 28 05:53 |
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| neighborlee | it doesnt' even autocomplete to a given topic like google does | Jun 28 05:53 |
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| SeanTilley | Er, that's weird. | Jun 28 05:53 |
| fewa | from Sun: "the network is the computer" | Jun 28 05:53 |
| fewa | who said that? | Jun 28 05:54 |
| SeanTilley | Schwartz? | Jun 28 05:54 |
| fewa | lol there is even a wikipedia redirect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_network_is_the_computer | Jun 28 05:55 |
| ATT greed is no myth http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/06/mythbusters_ada.html;jsessionid=54BFSCX4IZZCOQSNDLPCKHSCJUNN2JVN | Jun 28 05:55 | |
| $11,000 data bill. Ouch. | Jun 28 05:55 | |
| neighborlee | we are the world..we are the matrix ;)) | Jun 28 05:55 |
| SeanTilley | twitter: iPhone bill, I assume? =P | Jun 28 05:55 |
| Nope, regular modem | Jun 28 05:56 | |
| SeanTilley | Gee whiz. | Jun 28 05:56 |
| fewa | John Gage first said it | Jun 28 05:56 |
| fewa | as awknowledged by Schwatz | Jun 28 05:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Dutch: M$ fanboi Jan Stedehouder gooit weer eens met modder naar BoycottNovell http://tinyurl.com/nk88o7 | Jun 28 05:57 | |
| They claim 9GB of data while in Canada. I'll bet his laptop had some kind of Winblows malware spamming the world while he was there. | Jun 28 05:57 | |
| fewa | twitter, same fraud that was made popular on youtube | Jun 28 05:58 |
| fewa | and i see they are still comitting it | Jun 28 05:58 |
| fewa | telling the phone handlers to feign stupidity on cent to dollar conversion | Jun 28 05:58 |
| fewa | lying to their customers | Jun 28 05:58 |
| fewa | oo in that case it was verizon | Jun 28 05:59 |
| fewa | http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/ | Jun 28 05:59 |
| fewa | but At&t is verizon (cell networks) | Jun 28 05:59 |
| Seattle Weekly passes on Vista 7 upgrade, http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2009/06/windows_7_is_it_worth_the_upgr.php | Jun 28 06:07 | |
| ha ha. | Jun 28 06:07 | |
| neighborlee | lol | Jun 28 06:07 |
| neighborlee | well its better...thats my current experience so Far anyway..BUT having to pay so much for it even an upgrade..not so much. | Jun 28 06:08 |
| SeanTilley | Yay, my Gnote review made front page of FS Daily. | Jun 28 06:09 |
| here's a funny. 96 current news results for "Vista 7" http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=%22vista+7%22 | Jun 28 06:09 | |
| SeanTilley | Muchos gracias. | Jun 28 06:09 |
| congrats | Jun 28 06:10 | |
| SeanTilley | Too bad Linux.com is busy "editing" it, meaning I have to wait for it to be approved again. | Jun 28 06:10 |
| SeanTilley | Their anti-spam system is abysmal. | Jun 28 06:10 |
| neighborlee | SeanTilley, so whats your overall quick take ive not seen article | Jun 28 06:10 |
| SeanTilley | neighborlee: It's a review/comparison of Gnote and Tomboy, with a description of the similarities between the two apps and the benefit of Gnote to users that don't want Mono. | Jun 28 06:11 |
| SeanTilley | Sadly, the developer isn't Anti-Mono, and sent me a rather angry set of messages about my inaccuracy, meaning I had to edit it. | Jun 28 06:12 |
| neighborlee | not what I meant, but sure gotcha ;) | Jun 28 06:12 |
| SeanTilley | And now it's waiting on Linux.com's review/approval thing. | Jun 28 06:12 |
| SeanTilley | Gnote's really good, though. Faster than Tomboy, slightly lacking on plugins, but stable and very good for a Gnome desktop/ | Jun 28 06:13 |
| oiaohm | Gnote developer was after speed. | Jun 28 06:13 |
| SeanTilley | Well he's certainly doing well with that. | Jun 28 06:13 |
| oiaohm | There are all different reasons to hate mono. | Jun 28 06:13 |
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| SeanTilley | True, however he actually chewed me out because he likes mono. | Jun 28 06:14 |
| Those tweets did not seem very angry, it just looked like he wanted to be consulted before you attributed motives. | Jun 28 06:14 | |
| neighborlee | SeanTilley, kewl | Jun 28 06:14 |
| SeanTilley | twitter: Maybe, the sad thing about the internet is an occasional lack of context. | Jun 28 06:14 |
| Surely there are more developers than that one. Check out as many of their opinions as you can. | Jun 28 06:14 | |
| SeanTilley | Got it. | Jun 28 06:14 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, heh, he got a whole lot more maybe than what he expected..or DID he ;)) | Jun 28 06:14 |
| tweets have a terrible lack of context. | Jun 28 06:14 | |
| SeanTilley | So much for the social part of social networking. | Jun 28 06:15 |
| oiaohm | Gnote developer looks as mono as fine as a application development statch patch. | Jun 28 06:15 |
| oiaohm | patch/pad | Jun 28 06:15 |
| neighborlee | o_0 | Jun 28 06:15 |
| oiaohm | Personally I see vala as the future. | Jun 28 06:16 |
| neighborlee | valid | Jun 28 06:16 |
| oiaohm | .net was designed to interface with windows api's not gnome or kde ones. | Jun 28 06:17 |
| oiaohm | It basically don't fit well. | Jun 28 06:17 |
| SeanTilley | Just look at Synapse.im | Jun 28 06:17 |
| SeanTilley | Slow as a dog. | Jun 28 06:17 |
| SeanTilley | Visually appealing, but sloooow. | Jun 28 06:18 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, there is def.that ;) | Jun 28 06:18 |
| SeanTilley | I really wish there was a good dedicated Qt4 Jabber client that wasn't Kopete. | Jun 28 06:18 |
| SeanTilley | Time to search for one, I suppose. | Jun 28 06:19 |
| neighborlee | yes i never had much luck with that app...haven't really messed with IM much in linux usually just irc,go fig | Jun 28 06:20 |
| neighborlee | hm not in windows lately either actuallly | Jun 28 06:20 |
| SeanTilley | Heh. | Jun 28 06:20 |
| neighborlee | :) | Jun 28 06:20 |
| SeanTilley | I haven't used Windows since I tried the Win7 Beta. | Jun 28 06:21 |
| oiaohm | The C# langage design was not that bad. | Jun 28 06:21 |
| SeanTilley | Nvidia card didn't work, so that one got wiped pretty quickly. | Jun 28 06:21 |
| oiaohm | I have not used windows other than to repiar clients for over a year. | Jun 28 06:22 |
| SeanTilley | God, most of the recomended Linux Jabber clients are in Gtk... | Jun 28 06:22 |
| SeanTilley | Lame. | Jun 28 06:22 |
| neighborlee | SeanTilley, ouch ;) | Jun 28 06:23 |
| SeanTilley | Well, time for an educational field trip to Qt4, KDE, and Jabber/XMPP API documentation. | Jun 28 06:23 |
| SeanTilley | Wheeeee. | Jun 28 06:23 |
| oiaohm | Really if themeing on the open desktop was sorted out we really would not care about gtk or qt. | Jun 28 06:23 |
| SeanTilley | Right. | Jun 28 06:23 |
| SeanTilley | But it's such a mess. | Jun 28 06:23 |
| oiaohm | With interconnects. | Jun 28 06:23 |
| oiaohm | Compared to 1994 its tidy now. | Jun 28 06:24 |
| neighborlee | SeanTilley, makes me sick to think I used to prefer,,recommend ,,gnome...now im wishing honestly I'd listened to linus when he said 'just use kde' | Jun 28 06:24 |
| neighborlee | bah | Jun 28 06:24 |
| SeanTilley | 4.3 is looking pretty sharp nowadays. | Jun 28 06:24 |
| SeanTilley | Especiallly with Nuno's Air theme. | Jun 28 06:24 |
| neighborlee | true that | Jun 28 06:25 |
| SeanTilley | The only thing I really like about Gnome really is the ease-of-use for things like installing themes. | Jun 28 06:25 |
| neighborlee | it was kinda buggy for me in fedora..but then..that might have just been fedora ?<smirk> | Jun 28 06:25 |
| SeanTilley | And I've always liked the menu bar. | Jun 28 06:25 |
| oiaohm | We need more projects like the evolution kontact one where they will end up sharing the same back end. | Jun 28 06:25 |
| neighborlee | SeanTilley, yup | Jun 28 06:25 |
| SeanTilley | If Gnome's Menu Bar functionality could be made into a plasmoid, I'd be a happy camper. | Jun 28 06:25 |
| neighborlee | :) | Jun 28 06:26 |
| SeanTilley | =] | Jun 28 06:26 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, very true.... | Jun 28 06:26 |
| SeanTilley | brb | Jun 28 06:26 |
| oiaohm | This kde vs gnome stuff is really slowing development down. | Jun 28 06:27 |
| oiaohm | With lot of highly complex stuff duplicated. | Jun 28 06:27 |
| neighborlee | I do agree on that one..sad but true | Jun 28 06:28 |
| SeanTilley | back | Jun 28 06:28 |
| neighborlee | im not sure it could have been entirely avoided though given the environment | Jun 28 06:28 |
| neighborlee | SeanTilley, wb :) | Jun 28 06:28 |
| SeanTilley | And yeah, that flamewar's been going on for as long as I can remember. | Jun 28 06:28 |
| SeanTilley | It's all so pointless. | Jun 28 06:29 |
| oiaohm | Its more a new class of desktop users are required. | Jun 28 06:29 |
| neighborlee | depends how you look at it..its very moot now that qt changed its license o_0 | Jun 28 06:29 |
| oiaohm | Ones that run mixed and expect them to intergrate well with each other. | Jun 28 06:29 |
| neighborlee | yup | Jun 28 06:29 |
| oiaohm | Personally I don't care if the application is gtk or qt. | Jun 28 06:31 |
| oiaohm | Neither gnome or kde can give you the complete best of software the open source world has to offer up. | Jun 28 06:31 |
| SeanTilley | I like both KDE and Gnome, for different reasons. | Jun 28 06:31 |
| SeanTilley | Still, I have yet to find a KDE app to rival Gimp. | Jun 28 06:32 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, yes and thx to that , imho linux lags behind more than it needs to | Jun 28 06:32 |
| SeanTilley | Krita's not bad. | Jun 28 06:32 |
| neighborlee | strength comes from unity very often | Jun 28 06:32 |
| neighborlee | very true | Jun 28 06:32 |
| neighborlee | I think im gimpED , though krita looks nice ...never messed with it enough to say sadly | Jun 28 06:33 |
| oiaohm | krita is a imagemagic front end. | Jun 28 06:33 |
| SeanTilley | Krita just kind of lacks Gimp's functionality for me. | Jun 28 06:33 |
| oiaohm | So it is very good. | Jun 28 06:33 |
| SeanTilley | But then | Jun 28 06:33 |
| SeanTilley | I'm so used to GIMP's interface | Jun 28 06:33 |
| oiaohm | Just has not developed the plugin interface Gimp has. | Jun 28 06:34 |
| oiaohm | Little things make the differences. | Jun 28 06:34 |
| neighborlee | SeanTilley, same here basically | Jun 28 06:35 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, yup | Jun 28 06:35 |
| SeanTilley | Ah well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. | Jun 28 06:35 |
| oiaohm | f-spot vs Digikam. For me Digikam always wins. | Jun 28 06:37 |
| SeanTilley | Gwenview is also nice for a casual photo collection view. | Jun 28 06:38 |
| oiaohm | Digikam has the means to do a lot of image corrections built in. | Jun 28 06:38 |
| SeanTilley | I still prefer OpenOffice over KOffice, at least some Kubuntu devs are finally implementing a Qt4 frontend. | Jun 28 06:38 |
| SeanTilley | I was bummed to find KOffice doesn't really support image animations yet. | Jun 28 06:39 |
| fewa | I like the OpenOffice qt4 frontend | Jun 28 06:39 |
| SeanTilley | I have yet to check it out. | Jun 28 06:40 |
| SeanTilley | Oh, whaddya know? | Jun 28 06:41 |
| SeanTilley | It's packaged with this Kubuntu Karmic alpha. | Jun 28 06:41 |
| fewa | i have it in jaunty | Jun 28 06:41 |
| fewa | in GNOME | Jun 28 06:41 |
| fewa | somehow | Jun 28 06:41 |
| SeanTilley | Well, it beats what it used to look like in KDE. | Jun 28 06:41 |
| SeanTilley | Used to flicker like crazy. | Jun 28 06:41 |
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| SeanTilley | Oh neat, gloox is a jabber library for C++ | Jun 28 06:43 |
| yuhong | Overall, the discussion about Apple was very fun, though I don't agree with MinceR. | Jun 28 06:44 |
| SeanTilley | I have a mixed opinion on Apple. | Jun 28 06:44 |
| SeanTilley | Visually, their products are stunning. | Jun 28 06:44 |
| SeanTilley | But | Jun 28 06:44 |
| SeanTilley | They love their vendor lock-in. | Jun 28 06:44 |
| yuhong | I know. | Jun 28 06:44 |
| yuhong | Most of it is well known. | Jun 28 06:45 |
| SeanTilley | Also, overhype amongst college kids is starting to drive me nuts. | Jun 28 06:45 |
| SeanTilley | "Oh, I have a Mac, therefore I'm a creative ARTIST!" | Jun 28 06:45 |
| SeanTilley | No, you were an artist when you picked up the brush. | Jun 28 06:45 |
| yuhong | I don't think that was entirely undeserved. | Jun 28 06:45 |
| SeanTilley | Sorry, I deal with a lot of it from people my age just entering college. | Jun 28 06:46 |
| yuhong | Macs always had a good reputation in that area. | Jun 28 06:46 |
| SeanTilley | It grinds my gears a little. | Jun 28 06:46 |
| yuhong | And his anti-Apple sediment. | Jun 28 06:46 |
| SeanTilley | Well I mean, use whatever software/hardware you like. | Jun 28 06:47 |
| SeanTilley | It just annoys me when they flaunt it at me. | Jun 28 06:47 |
| yuhong | I mean, I don't agree with MinceR's anti-Apple sediment. | Jun 28 06:47 |
| SeanTilley | What's his sediment about it? | Jun 28 06:48 |
| yuhong | And I realise I forgot to mention about Linux being more componented than Windows. | Jun 28 06:48 |
| yuhong | SeanTilley: He's anti-Apple, you will see it when the IRC logs are posted, and I don't agree.. | Jun 28 06:48 |
| SeanTilley | Ah, I see. | Jun 28 06:49 |
| yuhong | I also forgot that I am actually using a PAE kernel primailly for NX. | Jun 28 06:49 |
| SeanTilley | heh | Jun 28 06:50 |
| yuhong | And Windows has an advantage here by the bootloader auto-detecting NX and loading hte PAE kernel. | Jun 28 06:50 |
| yuhong | I only have 1.5 GB of RAM. | Jun 28 06:51 |
| yuhong | Take Steve Job's letter for example. | Jun 28 06:51 |
| yuhong | I was suprised when they still thought it was a PR stunt after Apple finally stopped selling DRM music in exchanged for tiered pricing. | Jun 28 06:53 |
| yuhong | Then I mentioned that the letter talked only about music DRM, not any other kind of DRM. | Jun 28 06:53 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel supports NX and it is also auto detecting. Exactly what is the advantage. Windows does not exploit PAE to use more than 4 g of ram. | Jun 28 06:54 |
| yuhong | Correct, and that is what I mentioned in this discussion, but I forgot to mention that is not what actually led me to use a PAE kernel. | Jun 28 06:54 |
| yuhong | And yes Fedora 11 is auto-detecting in it's installer and installing a PAE kernel if detected. | Jun 28 06:55 |
| yuhong | Anyway, then they claim that SJ lied in one part of the letter, then in response I mentioned the tiered pricing in exchange for DRM-free again. | Jun 28 06:56 |
| oiaohm | Same kernel with Linux can do PAE and non PAE. | Jun 28 06:56 |
| oiaohm | You really don't need two kernel images. | Jun 28 06:56 |
| yuhong | No, did you actually try configuring the Linux kernel. | Jun 28 06:56 |
| yuhong | No, did you actually try configuring the Linux kernel? | Jun 28 06:56 |
| yuhong | Notice the HIGHMEM options. | Jun 28 06:57 |
| oiaohm | I notice the HIGHMEM options. I have used Highmem enabled kernels on CPU's that don't support PAE. | Jun 28 06:57 |
| yuhong | I am talking about HIGHMEM64G. | Jun 28 06:57 |
| oiaohm | The kernel fails to a operational state. | Jun 28 06:57 |
| oiaohm | Ie cannot start PAE it falls back to the old system. | Jun 28 06:58 |
| yuhong | The kernel that run on non-PAE CPUs you are probably talking about HIGHMEM4G. | Jun 28 06:58 |
| yuhong | Looks like you confused the two options. | Jun 28 06:58 |
| oiaohm | HIGHMEN64G | Jun 28 06:58 |
| oiaohm | It will fail to operational. | Jun 28 06:59 |
| yuhong | Proof, please? | Jun 28 06:59 |
| yuhong | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=628033 | Jun 28 07:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] hWhy do we allow the US to act like a failed state on climate change? ttp://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/jun/26/us- ... | Jun 28 07:02 | |
| neighborlee | didn't climate change billl just get acccepted or something | Jun 28 07:03 |
| neighborlee | I saw it today..briefly.. | Jun 28 07:03 |
| *fewa has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jun 28 07:04 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Fights the Lock-in of #FogComputing http://ping.fm/Bi3a1 | Jun 28 07:12 | |
| *yuhong has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060308]") | Jun 28 07:12 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Movable Type Liberated in Melody http://ping.fm/HQKGF | Jun 28 07:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Interest Rises Because of Cost http://ping.fm/DbPrV | Jun 28 07:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software in CRM is Growing Fast http://ping.fm/vzp6v http://ping.fm/W6Vcf | Jun 28 07:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Free Software Coalition http://ping.fm/bnVmL and Commitments in Asia http://ping.fm/Ky0dT | Jun 28 07:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Open Source Society" Enabled by the Web http://ping.fm/m6mSq | Jun 28 07:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] PHP 5.3 Out Shortly http://ping.fm/4udNT , Free Software Revolutionises Programming http://ping.fm/V50Iq | Jun 28 07:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Freedom of the Internet Embraced -- Not Attacked -- by Some Relics http://ping.fm/v5xsh http://ping.fm/zheMe | Jun 28 07:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Video: GNU/Linux Pushes the Boundary of Fun Desktops http://ping.fm/B7tEy | Jun 28 07:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Laughs at 'Live'/MSN with New Skin ("Bling") http://ping.fm/UBz9e | Jun 28 07:47 | |
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| schestowitz | Good documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2dL-TdHRBE&feature=related | Jun 28 08:54 |
| *_Goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 08:58 | |
| _Goblin | hi all | Jun 28 08:58 |
| _Goblin | what a fresh morning... | Jun 28 08:58 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Jun 28 09:09 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/26/sarkozy-france-paris-islamic-veils | Jun 28 09:13 |
| schestowitz | Sarkofdascism | Jun 28 09:13 |
| tacone | http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/134/ | Jun 28 09:15 |
| schestowitz | Pathetic, no? | Jun 28 09:16 |
| schestowitz | He doesn't link to rms | Jun 28 09:16 |
| tacone | I don't like that post. | Jun 28 09:17 |
| tacone | it's just propaganda. | Jun 28 09:17 |
| schestowitz | The morning after.. | Jun 28 09:17 |
| tacone | "Banshee is a better media player than Rhythmbox, Period. For new users it provides a more intuitive, friendlier and more modern interface." >>> Bollocks | Jun 28 09:18 |
| schestowitz | "I believe Free Software developers should be free to contribute without being threatened with eviction from a community [4][5]" | Jun 28 09:18 |
| schestowitz | Lines are drawn | Jun 28 09:18 |
| schestowitz | http://foodformonkeys.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-to-build-monodevelop-with-visual.html | Jun 28 09:19 |
| schestowitz | "My complete name is Lluis Sanchez Gual, and I work as a developer for Novell." | Jun 28 09:19 |
| schestowitz | "How to build MonoDevelop with Visual Studio" | Jun 28 09:20 |
| schestowitz | Brad Kunn http://identi.ca/notice/5812260 | Jun 28 09:21 |
| schestowitz | "c.f. Tomboy C++ rewrite effort as well ♻ @toros: !fsf !gnu @rms: Why free software shouldnt depend on #Mono or C# - http://ur1.ca/6d0x " | Jun 28 09:21 |
| schestowitz | John Sullivan (FSF) "!fsf rms warning about !debian and others depending on Mono: http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono " < http://identi.ca/notice/5778840 > | Jun 28 09:21 |
| _Goblin | Found a great new shill... | Jun 28 09:22 |
| _Goblin | and this one even tries to argue on my blog.. | Jun 28 09:23 |
| _Goblin | he's nearly on a par with Andre Da Cost (who last night I posted evidence he posts as Mr Dee on CNET) | Jun 28 09:23 |
| schestowitz | "I think a lot of people misunderstand @rms by thinking he's declaring a general rule when he's merely advising on a specific situation. !fsf " http://identi.ca/notice/5814802 | Jun 28 09:23 |
| schestowitz | Really?? | Jun 28 09:23 |
| schestowitz | Mr Dee the Microsoft shill is another person? | Jun 28 09:24 |
| _Goblin | Yep, latest article. | Jun 28 09:24 |
| _Goblin | I believe Ive proved Mr Dee and Andre are the same. | Jun 28 09:24 |
| _Goblin | mainly because of identical comments on both twitter and CNET | Jun 28 09:24 |
| _Goblin | and a love/mourning of MJ | Jun 28 09:24 |
| schestowitz | But why would he nymshift? http://identi.ca/notice/5814802 | Jun 28 09:24 |
| _Goblin | to pimp his MS warez. The Da Costa name is now toxic. | Jun 28 09:25 |
| _Goblin | but he still needs to get credit from his masters. | Jun 28 09:25 |
| _Goblin | (IMO) | Jun 28 09:25 |
| _Goblin | also Mr Dee can backup Andre and allow him to try to gain that which he lost on MS Watch, | Jun 28 09:25 |
| _Goblin | If you look at the evidence, IMO its really pretty obvious. | Jun 28 09:26 |
| _Goblin | two identical posts by two different names on two different sites. | Jun 28 09:26 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Mr Hussain doesnt seem to be able to debate. http://bit.ly/URS2X #Microsoft #windows #vista | Jun 28 09:47 | |
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| schestowitz | _Goblin: try to match some more | Jun 28 09:55 |
| schestowitz | Try "mr dee costa" and some message texts | Jun 28 09:56 |
| schestowitz | I know Dee is upsetting FOSS bloggers in CNET. | Jun 28 09:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Publishes Anti-Free/Open Source Software Paper via Lobbyists < http://ping.fm/F1PoG > | Jun 28 09:57 | |
| _Goblin | sorry I was AFK | Jun 28 10:03 |
| _Goblin | we also have the MJ mourning and the fact that the topics on both sites seem to follow the same subject path... | Jun 28 10:04 |
| _Goblin | I think it was Chips who originally made the allegation of Mr Da Costa being Mr Dee. Seems he was right all along. | Jun 28 10:05 |
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| schestowitz | Many people mourned over MJ | Jun 28 10:20 |
| _Goblin | true, but if you read the comments you will see them the same on both accounts.... | Jun 28 10:36 |
| _Goblin | and the timing is the same, as is the change in subject... | Jun 28 10:36 |
| _Goblin | to me the identical posts on two separate accounts is enough. | Jun 28 10:37 |
| schestowitz | But we know Cosiaman is plagiarising stuff | Jun 28 10:39 |
| schestowitz | Like press release | Jun 28 10:39 |
| schestowitz | Why would he not just copy comments? | Jun 28 10:39 |
| _Goblin | mm true...but remember that this allegation has been around for a while.... | Jun 28 10:40 |
| _Goblin | and its not a case of simply me noticing a duplicate post. | Jun 28 10:40 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Dee is his laptop colleague ;-) | Jun 28 10:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bing Executive Quits Microsoft, But Microsoft Colony is Built at eBay < http://ping.fm/YXgnk > | Jun 28 10:42 | |
| oiaohm | If Dee and Costa are not the same person they are playing from the same play book. | Jun 28 10:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Mr Hussain seems to delete posts he doesnt like: http://bit.ly/11ORhY | Jun 28 10:47 | |
| oiaohm | http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/06/28/0344234/The-State-of-Munichs-Ongoing-Linux-Migration Progress is progress. | Jun 28 10:47 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: : this book? http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/comes-3096.pdf | Jun 28 11:01 |
| oiaohm | Play book more detailed than that one. Ie one covering how to do responces and the like schestowitz. | Jun 28 11:06 |
| schestowitz | Yes, 'THE' handbook | Jun 28 11:09 |
| oiaohm | Linux has been following lot of that comes too. | Jun 28 11:10 |
| oiaohm | Don't go head to head attack the edges | Jun 28 11:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Responses to Richard Stallman’s Verdict on Mono < http://ping.fm/77J8r > | Jun 28 11:17 | |
| oiaohm | http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html Good read to see how far out of context the comes document is. | Jun 28 11:18 |
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| toa | hey guys i have a question why are you rebel on c# | Jun 28 11:19 |
| toa | isnt c# a open standard | Jun 28 11:19 |
| toa | ? | Jun 28 11:19 |
| toa | can someone answer that question | Jun 28 11:20 |
| toa | is anyone here | Jun 28 11:20 |
| toa | ????? | Jun 28 11:20 |
| toa | can you answer that question | Jun 28 11:20 |
| tacone | yup | Jun 28 11:20 |
| toa | please explain | Jun 28 11:21 |
| tacone | toa: c# being an open standard is a debated statement. | Jun 28 11:21 |
| tacone | i'll try to be brief | Jun 28 11:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Is it just me, or does anybody else have problems connecting to jabber.org in !Pidgin? !xmpp | Jun 28 11:22 | |
| tacone | -> ecma submission is not regarded as a guarantee | Jun 28 11:22 |
| tacone | -> parts of c# were not submitted to ecma btw | Jun 28 11:22 |
| toa | isnt c a ecma standard | Jun 28 11:22 |
| tacone | -> is doubtful the last evolutions of the c# specification has been submitted to ecma. so newer things may fall out | Jun 28 11:22 |
| tacone | C has been managed by ISO in the last 20 years AFAIK | Jun 28 11:23 |
| toa | c# is ISO/IEC 23270 | Jun 28 11:23 |
| tacone | -> how to obtain a license from ECMA is doubtful. some people tried and couldn't. | Jun 28 11:23 |
| toa | and ECMA-334 | Jun 28 11:24 |
| oiaohm | toa is more a case of missing information. | Jun 28 11:24 |
| schestowitz | ECMA are a fraud | Jun 28 11:24 |
| schestowitz | You pay them money to pretend stuff is standard | Jun 28 11:24 |
| toa | ius ISO a fraud also | Jun 28 11:24 |
| oiaohm | Most other ISO/IEC standards have a clear list of patents covered. | Jun 28 11:24 |
| schestowitz | They are co-lobbyists | Jun 28 11:24 |
| toa | is* | Jun 28 11:24 |
| schestowitz | ISO got tarnished by Microsoft | Jun 28 11:25 |
| oiaohm | C# and .net are both missing that list toa | Jun 28 11:25 |
| tacone | ISO has been corrupted for OOXML, but that's another matter :( | Jun 28 11:25 |
| schestowitz | http://www.jtc1sc34.org/repository/0940.htm" | Jun 28 11:25 |
| schestowitz | http://www.jtc1sc34.org/repository/0940.htm | Jun 28 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | "The disparity of rules for PAS, Fast-Track and ISO committee generated standards is fast making ISO a laughing stock in IT circles." | Jun 28 11:25 |
| oiaohm | Lack of openness about patents on standards validly causes fear of using the standard toa | Jun 28 11:25 |
| toa | well im confused | Jun 28 11:25 |
| oiaohm | Lot of people got burnt with the mp3 ISO standard. | Jun 28 11:25 |
| schestowitz | g2g bbl | Jun 28 11:26 |
| toa | we use c and its coverd by iso | Jun 28 11:26 |
| oiaohm | Hidden patents are a worry toa. | Jun 28 11:26 |
| tacone | toa: why didn't MS or novell put up a patent license like this ? http://www.waveprotocol.org/patent-license | Jun 28 11:26 |
| tacone | it's not long to write. | Jun 28 11:26 |
| oiaohm | Difference C is too old to be covered by patents toa | Jun 28 11:26 |
| tacone | and not a burden to review :) | Jun 28 11:26 |
| oiaohm | Also C standard when patents have applied they have been listed with the standard toa. | Jun 28 11:27 |
| toa | ok i understand there is a posiibility to be sued | Jun 28 11:27 |
| oiaohm | Since patents are public documents there is really no valid ground to keep them secret other than planing to use them agreasively. | Jun 28 11:27 |
| toa | i dont buy the agreasively part | Jun 28 11:28 |
| toa | i dont think ms is out to get us | Jun 28 11:28 |
| oiaohm | Provide a valid reason not to state the patents. | Jun 28 11:28 |
| tacone | toa: which other reason may there be to keep them secret ? | Jun 28 11:29 |
| tacone | toa: MS is not chasing after you. | Jun 28 11:29 |
| toa | ms is huge company | Jun 28 11:29 |
| oiaohm | When you make a patent you give up the information from being 100 percent secret. | Jun 28 11:29 |
| tacone | MS is chasing start ups | Jun 28 11:29 |
| toa | they have management problemns | Jun 28 11:29 |
| toa | that my opinion | Jun 28 11:29 |
| oiaohm | If MS has management problems over patents that means using anything made by MS could be a furture libibality. | Jun 28 11:30 |
| tacone | toa: http://eupat.ffii.org/archiv/zitate/#bgates91 | Jun 28 11:30 |
| oiaohm | So no one sould be using MS products. | Jun 28 11:30 |
| oiaohm | Sorry Toa | Jun 28 11:30 |
| oiaohm | Not an option. | Jun 28 11:30 |
| tacone | toa: yes they have. and shareholders problems | Jun 28 11:30 |
| oiaohm | Linux foundation runs a team particularly to manage the patent issues of the Linux kernel. | Jun 28 11:31 |
| tacone | it's not that everybody in MS is evil. the same goes for novell et. | Jun 28 11:31 |
| toa | but you could win a trial because steve ballmer opnly supported Mono | Jun 28 11:32 |
| toa | openly* | Jun 28 11:32 |
| oiaohm | No. | Jun 28 11:32 |
| oiaohm | What ballmer said does not allow unlimit usage. | Jun 28 11:32 |
| oiaohm | One of the myths from the mono camp toa | Jun 28 11:33 |
| tacone | public statements have limited or no value | Jun 28 11:33 |
| tacone | ballmer also stated the opposite regarding Mono usage by non-novell-customers | Jun 28 11:33 |
| toa | i know a lawyer who can surelly win tis trial | Jun 28 11:33 |
| toa | this* | Jun 28 11:33 |
| oiaohm | Sorry I know lawyers so say the other way. | Jun 28 11:34 |
| tacone | toa: talk is cheap :) | Jun 28 11:34 |
| oiaohm | I have had it reviewed toa | Jun 28 11:34 |
| oiaohm | Only party who can for sure ship mono is Novell. | Jun 28 11:34 |
| oiaohm | Everyone else shipping it is playing with legal fire. | Jun 28 11:34 |
| toa | ok i dont agree with you but ok if you so say | Jun 28 11:35 |
| tacone | nope | Jun 28 11:35 |
| tacone | i don't think even novell is safe | Jun 28 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Also Novell deal only lasts 5 years. | Jun 28 11:35 |
| tacone | if it is, not for long (2012) | Jun 28 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Then Novell will be in the same boat as everyone less. | Jun 28 11:35 |
| tacone | one common misconception is that MS is in control of what they do. they aren't. It's a large company, you told that. | Jun 28 11:36 |
| toa | it dont think novell is stupid | Jun 28 11:36 |
| toa | they would playy if they would play safe | Jun 28 11:36 |
| toa | wouldnt* | Jun 28 11:36 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Jun 28 11:36 |
| oiaohm | You really don't know novell toa | Jun 28 11:36 |
| toa | i work for them | Jun 28 11:36 |
| tacone | toa: me neither. but I don't know the kinds of interest they have in the matter. | Jun 28 11:36 |
| *tacone doesn't knows novell either | Jun 28 11:36 | |
| oiaohm | History of Novell shows lots of cases where they have done deals that are not wise. | Jun 28 11:37 |
| tacone | novell is basing their business so much on mono these days it's difficult to foresee their future. | Jun 28 11:37 |
| oiaohm | For short term profit. | Jun 28 11:37 |
| toa | for long time loss that is just ridiculous | Jun 28 11:37 |
| toa | beside novell is not runned by the same people they once were | Jun 28 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Of course so people don't have the experience of being stupid and knowing not to repeat it. | Jun 28 11:39 |
| tacone | were slipping into subjective matters | Jun 28 11:40 |
| oiaohm | Simple problem with .net is that it does not intergrate with native apis on Linux well so requires extreamly heavy wrappers. | Jun 28 11:40 |
| oiaohm | .Net is going to follow the path of java. Another flash in the pan before being forced back into a edge to be forgoten about. | Jun 28 11:41 |
| tacone | toa: you develop on mono or develop mono itself ? | Jun 28 11:41 |
| toa | develop on mono | Jun 28 11:41 |
| oiaohm | Have you played with vala at all toa | Jun 28 11:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Wow, Mr Hussain was relentless. I hope people enjoy watching him squirm out of his own comments... #windows #microsoft #vista #xp | Jun 28 11:42 | |
| toa | ok guys i have to go nice chating with you | Jun 28 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Vala has taken the idea of C# and tried to be as thin as possiable to the internal apis of gnome. | Jun 28 11:42 |
| tacone | bye ! | Jun 28 11:42 |
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| tacone | interesting. | Jun 28 11:42 |
| oiaohm | I like toa claim that he works for them. | Jun 28 11:44 |
| tacone | no, he claimed to develop mono apps | Jun 28 11:45 |
| oiaohm | Scroll back to just above your Doesn't knows novell either. | Jun 28 11:45 |
| tacone | oh ! | Jun 28 11:46 |
| tacone | interesting. | Jun 28 11:46 |
| tacone | develops mono apps for novell ? | Jun 28 11:46 |
| tacone | a banshee dev? could it be ? | Jun 28 11:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] before I forget, a big thank you to Andre for linking that site.Its nice to highlight FUD and Andre (or Mr Dee?) helps that cause greatly. | Jun 28 11:47 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I think it says it all when the person who jumps to the defense of Mr Hussain actually admits to infringing copyright...great counter. | Jun 28 12:07 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] A new VFAT patent avoidance patch: http://is.gd/1gSju | Jun 28 12:12 | |
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| ziggyfish | another MS product scrapped - http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=3180 | Jun 28 12:13 |
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| trmanco | omfg | Jun 28 12:19 |
| trmanco | what an idiot | Jun 28 12:19 |
| trmanco | http://linux.com/community/blogs/Free-Software-Take-Note-An-overview-of-Gnote-0.5.1-.html | Jun 28 12:24 |
| trmanco | what happened to this? | Jun 28 12:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Ksplice Offers Rebootless Updates For Ubuntu Systems: http://is.gd/1gTqV | Jun 28 12:32 | |
| ziggyfish | Installed Ksplice the other day, seems intersting | Jun 28 12:35 |
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| trmanco | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4d5bd5e2f8399fb8 | Jun 28 12:39 |
| trmanco | Linus posted to cola once :-P | Jun 28 12:40 |
| tacone | drunk ? | Jun 28 12:43 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nandanator] Was a good day .. Hope the week ahead is also the same? :S | Jun 28 13:07 | |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi oiaohm! | Jun 28 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_ | Jun 28 13:50 |
| _Hicham_ | howdy? | Jun 28 13:50 |
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| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : KMS is not working anymore in 2.6.30 and 2.6.31 | Jun 28 14:00 |
| oiaohm | You did build staging? | Jun 28 14:00 |
| oiaohm | ATI KMS driver is in the staging section of 2.6.31 | Jun 28 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Or otherwise know as the tainted_crap section. | Jun 28 14:01 |
| oiaohm | http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/06/28/0858238/Investigators-Suspect-Computers-Doomed-Air-France-Jet << Ouch. | Jun 28 14:05 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : I took the stock kernel from fedora | Jun 28 14:05 |
| oiaohm | Ok hand of god. | Jun 28 14:06 |
| oiaohm | 2.6.30 pure main line does not have the ATI patches. | Jun 28 14:06 |
| oiaohm | 2.6.31 pure main line has it but you have to chose to build expermental bits. | Jun 28 14:07 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't know why fedora didn't include it in 2.6.30 and 2.6.31 | Jun 28 14:09 |
| _Hicham_ | though it works marvellously in 2.6.29 | Jun 28 14:09 |
| schestowitz | Heh. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/920a91515b9888f4 | Jun 28 14:11 |
| oiaohm | 2.6.31 they missed enabling it _Hicham_ | Jun 28 14:15 |
| _Hicham_ | how comes? | Jun 28 14:16 |
| _Hicham_ | it is really weird | Jun 28 14:16 |
| oiaohm | It happens. | Jun 28 14:17 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully by the time 2.6.31 is proper released matching mesa will be released. | Jun 28 14:18 |
| oiaohm | There is also no ATI KMS patch for 2.6.30 | Jun 28 14:19 |
| oiaohm | Someone would have to back port one. | Jun 28 14:19 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: its pure time of flux issues. | Jun 28 14:21 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft shill, now MS employee: http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail683.html | Jun 28 14:37 |
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| schestowitz | I knew what shill wrote this based on the title alone (the Microsoft shills are very busy): http://blogs.computerworld.com/will_bing_bury_microsoft | Jun 28 14:40 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.xboxic.com/news/5452 (Exposed: Halo3 ODST modder makes a threat to Microsoft) | Jun 28 14:51 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Preparing a talk about United Patent Litigation System tomorrow at HSF2009: http://bit.ly/z1Iks Live streaming: http://bit.ly/KNSXf | Jun 28 14:52 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Among the headlines for Windows, "Vista" matches just 3 this week, with overlap with Vista 7, which has 44 results. Vapourware indeed. | Jun 28 14:57 | |
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| schestowitz | Google in fantasy land: Google: Less Unhappy Days Are Here Again < http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20090626/google-less-unhappy-days-are-here-again/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_ticker > | Jun 28 15:02 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Drug wars (how to addict children to Fog computing): http://ping.fm/J8Jg5 | Jun 28 15:02 | |
| schestowitz | Whoa. http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/062309-juniper-taps-microsoft-executive.html "Prior to Microsoft, Elliott spent 22 years at IBM." | Jun 28 15:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] dammit I must have ONE working 2.5" HD spare. At least to check the interface isn't buggered too. @secretlondon @hawkeviper yr disks welcome | Jun 28 15:07 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Antitrust: Commission statement on Microsoft Internet Explorer announcement < http://ping.fm/hGOhF > | Jun 28 15:12 | |
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| csax | communicating bout anything ? | Jun 28 15:13 |
| schestowitz | Another troublemaking ACT: ACT wanted in on federal Microsoft deal < http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/ACT-wanted-in-on-federal-Microsoft-deal/0,130061733,339297061,00.htm?omnRef=1337 > | Jun 28 15:14 |
| schestowitz | csax: hi | Jun 28 15:14 |
| schestowitz | Yes, what's up? | Jun 28 15:14 |
| csax | hi | Jun 28 15:14 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Ballmer Apologizes for "Poorly Chosen Words" < http://ping.fm/goz3X > He never apologised for "Linux is like a cancer" | Jun 28 15:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @waldyrious Musical chairs and reproducibility drills - Reproducible Ideas http://ff.im/-4xp1B | Jun 28 15:17 | |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) is flush with cash, but in a few days it will be out of Money. " http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2009/06/23/an-intuitive-move-from-microsoft.aspx | Jun 28 15:18 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Listening to "I-Robots: Italo Electro Disco Underground Classics" (2004); evidently the '80s never ended. | Jun 28 15:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the weather appears to be oppressing everyone. i am hopped up on green tea just to be able to type. | Jun 28 15:32 | |
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| schestowitz | http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/06/23/ex-microsoft-exec-lands-a-big-gig-at-juniper/ "For a decade, Johnson tried to hire Elliott at Microsoft. But she was a bleed-Blue loyalist. Caving in 2001, she flew from Connecticut to Seattle on September 10. Her first day at Microsoft was 9/11. " | Jun 28 15:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] that's quite enough italian disco kthx. durutti column "another setting" is considerably better and suits the weather. rainy spring in perth | Jun 28 15:42 | |
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| schestowitz | new page: http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/DoJ_vs_Microsoft | Jun 28 15:43 |
| Eruaran | The US DoJ is thoroughly corrupt | Jun 28 15:44 |
| ToXedVirus | no | Jun 28 15:44 |
| ugufjhfj | The US is thoroughly corrupt | Jun 28 15:44 |
| ToXedVirus | the US are corrupt | Jun 28 15:44 |
| ToXedVirus | yeah ugufjhfj ;> | Jun 28 15:45 |
| schestowitz | Both are | Jun 28 15:45 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: the DOJ was cleaner wrt MS prior to 1998 | Jun 28 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | I was told MS pushed many cronies into it amid antitrust | Jun 28 15:46 |
| Eruaran | They have even been involved in the illegal convictions of US citizens on false charges of tax evasion, aiding and abetting the IRS in its illegal activities. | Jun 28 15:46 |
| schestowitz | It's like ISO and other bodies that MS captures from the inside. Unless you watch it VERY closely, you won't even be able to identify who the cronies are | Jun 28 15:46 |
| schestowitz | Barnett is one example,He's an anti-Googole DOJer now. used to work for MS. | Jun 28 15:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Master list for future Comes work (ODF): http://ping.fm/OiPua | Jun 28 15:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Kofi Annan ICT Centre advocates GNU/Linux: http://ping.fm/tTu0A | Jun 28 15:47 | |
| Eruaran | The DoJ also works on behalf of the IRS | Jun 28 15:47 |
| Eruaran | Which is basically the same as being in the pocket of the Mafia | Jun 28 15:47 |
| schestowitz | IRS is seen as unconsititutional | Jun 28 15:50 |
| schestowitz | I think several notable people have proven this | Jun 28 15:50 |
| schestowitz | But it's worth to be wrongly accused of crimes and be almost tortured under false pretenses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fisher | Jun 28 15:51 |
| _Hicham_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Schestowitz | Jun 28 15:52 |
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| schestowitz | "Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name." | Jun 28 15:57 |
| fewa | "enterprise software" | Jun 28 15:58 |
| fewa | more of that bullshit | Jun 28 15:58 |
| _Hicham_ | are u against enterprise software? | Jun 28 15:58 |
| fewa | its just a filler word | Jun 28 15:59 |
| fewa | it said they were considering open source over enterprise software from Microsft | Jun 28 15:59 |
| fewa | Microsoft doesnt make custom stuff AFAIK | Jun 28 15:59 |
| schestowitz | USS Starship Enterprise | Jun 28 15:59 |
| schestowitz | Johnny here runs an enterprise with his wife | Jun 28 16:00 |
| fewa | false qualifiers are evil | Jun 28 16:00 |
| schestowitz | It's not a mom-n-pop shop, it's an enterprise. Johnny Limited Co. | Jun 28 16:00 |
| fewa | it also insinuates only large entities can have software that is any good | Jun 28 16:00 |
| schestowitz | Of course | Jun 28 16:01 |
| schestowitz | And Free software is not enterprise :-p | Jun 28 16:01 |
| schestowitz | Enterprise are RICH RICH RICH | Jun 28 16:01 |
| schestowitz | No "Free lunch" | Jun 28 16:01 |
| schestowitz | The more you pay the better :-p | Jun 28 16:01 |
| fewa | Enterprise == expensive crap | Jun 28 16:01 |
| schestowitz | Enterprise Edition | Jun 28 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Common among some 'open source' companies | Jun 28 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Enterprises are private tyrannies | Jun 28 16:02 |
| schestowitz | They are built and structured like totalitarian argimes | Jun 28 16:02 |
| fewa | well, then its usually part of their marketing group | Jun 28 16:02 |
| schestowitz | They also possess to means to destroy people who dare to stand up to them, and they do | Jun 28 16:02 |
| schestowitz | *regimes | Jun 28 16:03 |
| fewa | and as long as the "enterprise edition" is essentially the same thing, maybe with a dump gui tool added on, then it isnt a big deal | Jun 28 16:03 |
| _Hicham_ | enterprise edition is an edition with technical support | Jun 28 16:03 |
| fewa | just participating in the psycological situation set up by M$ | Jun 28 16:03 |
| fewa | thats fine | Jun 28 16:03 |
| _Hicham_ | that is enterprise edition in open source world | Jun 28 16:04 |
| fewa | selling it as a edition with support is fine, but thats not what M$ and the propritary software companies do | Jun 28 16:04 |
| _Hicham_ | I am talking about open source world | Jun 28 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft has just INNOVA~1 again: Microsoft confirms motion-camera firm buyout < http://www.gamespot.com/news/6212438.html > | Jun 28 16:04 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: no, it's PR | Jun 28 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Eneterprise is a game of associations | Jun 28 16:04 |
| fewa | its Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt | Jun 28 16:05 |
| _Hicham_ | for the proprietary world, yes | Jun 28 16:05 |
| schestowitz | Part of the whole Forbes, Fortune, BusinessWeek Benjamins orgy | Jun 28 16:05 |
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| _Hicham_ | but what RedHat model is completely ethical | Jun 28 16:05 |
| fewa | absolutely | Jun 28 16:05 |
| schestowitz | Not according to FSF | Jun 28 16:05 |
| schestowitz | But it's GPL compliant | Jun 28 16:06 |
| fewa | its not bad | Jun 28 16:06 |
| schestowitz | I think he last spoke about this with ORLY guy last month | Jun 28 16:06 |
| *Eruaran has quit ("No Ping reply in 90 seconds.") | Jun 28 16:06 | |
| fewa | they still spread misinformation over what you can and cannot do with the software | Jun 28 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Defends Its Empire < http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_27/b4138000527445.htm > <----- Sucking up to Microsoft | Jun 28 16:07 |
| *ugufjhfj has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jun 28 16:07 | |
| schestowitz | More PR from BW | Jun 28 16:07 |
| *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 16:07 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Extends XP Downgrade Option Until 2011 < http://www.trustedreviews.com/software/news/2009/06/23/Microsoft-Extends-XP-Downgrade-Option-Until-2011/p1 > Nothing to do with Linux??? | Jun 28 16:08 |
| fewa | schestowitz, cause google apps provides the same thing for free | Jun 28 16:08 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-196-62.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 16:09 | |
| _Hicham_ | FSF is 100% Ok with RedHat? | Jun 28 16:09 |
| fewa | <schestowitz> Not according to FSF | Jun 28 16:09 |
| _Hicham_ | really weird | Jun 28 16:10 |
| _Hicham_ | RMS encourage people to make money from software | Jun 28 16:10 |
| fewa | They do the model they do because business don't understand free software | Jun 28 16:12 |
| ha ha XP in 2011 a Suck Oddity | Jun 28 16:12 | |
| fewa | at least some of them | Jun 28 16:12 |
| _Hicham_ | MS always say that is not possible to make money from free software | Jun 28 16:14 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat does some proprietary stuff for a while | Jun 28 16:14 |
| _Hicham_ | until they recover developments costs | Jun 28 16:14 |
| fewa | RedHat stock price has been booming | Jun 28 16:14 |
| fewa | and they provide good products along with the flexibility of the GPL | Jun 28 16:15 |
| schestowitz | twitter: that's like still supporting Red hat 5 | Jun 28 16:17 |
| schestowitz | Not RHEL5 | Jun 28 16:17 |
| schestowitz | But some Linux desktop from 1999 | Jun 28 16:18 |
| No, Red Hat 5 was better. | Jun 28 16:18 | |
| schestowitz | fewa: I'd show you what RMS said if I knew where to find it now | Jun 28 16:18 |
| schestowitz | It was an interview | Jun 28 16:18 |
| XP still has a poor network stack. | Jun 28 16:18 | |
| schestowitz | VIsta even worse | Jun 28 16:18 |
| schestowitz | They rewrote what they had | Jun 28 16:18 |
| schestowitz | They 'stole' from BSD | Jun 28 16:19 |
| Red Hat 5.1 had X, virtual desktops and a lot of other good fundamentals. | Jun 28 16:19 | |
| schestowitz | And in Vista it got worse | Jun 28 16:19 |
| schestowitz | It'll be the same in Vista7 (Vista.1), needless to say | Jun 28 16:19 |
| schestowitz | "But look, ma, it's shiny" | Jun 28 16:19 |
| fewa | my brother still runs RH 8 | Jun 28 16:19 |
| fewa | and it runs wel | Jun 28 16:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.inquisitr.com/27397/microsoft-shows-once-again-how-it-doesnt-listen/ http://www.reuters.com/article/idgSmallBusiness/idUS50590767720090625 | Jun 28 16:20 |
| fewa | had 1.5yr uptime | Jun 28 16:20 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft to world & Dog: we broke the Web and we don't care how you feel about it | Jun 28 16:20 |
| fewa | schestowitz, yeah the outlook stuff was horrible | Jun 28 16:20 |
| fewa | they are in a point where they feel that heedingto customer demand means giving into the market and letting customers see competitors | Jun 28 16:21 |
| http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=site%3Aen.wikipedia.org+boycottnovell&aq=f&oq=&aqi= | Jun 28 16:22 | |
| 2 results. | Jun 28 16:22 | |
| fewa | but by doing this they just create an opening with the demand they left | Jun 28 16:22 |
| schestowitz | twitter: what do you know about Goldman Sachs and MS | Jun 28 16:22 |
| schestowitz | I have some old evidence of the connection, but it's worth exploring more | Jun 28 16:23 |
| not much off the top of my head | Jun 28 16:23 | |
| schestowitz | Also the relationships with MS' CFOs (prior) and top execs | Jun 28 16:23 |
| the obvious connection is that Wall Street in general shoveled M$FT into everyone's retirement fund. | Jun 28 16:24 | |
| *Eruaran has quit ("No Ping reply in 90 seconds.") | Jun 28 16:24 | |
| Huge Theft. | Jun 28 16:24 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: we had more refs | Jun 28 16:24 |
| schestowitz | Shills keep removing those | Jun 28 16:24 |
| yes, I imagine so. | Jun 28 16:24 | |
| "reputation defenders" | Jun 28 16:24 | |
| *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 16:24 | |
| fewa | page? | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | We were on ISO | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | Also on Novell's page | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | But the shills remove these | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | OSI's president told me | Jun 28 16:25 |
| you should also be a reference for ODF, OOXML, Microsoft and many others. | Jun 28 16:25 | |
| fewa | rearranging the deck chair on the hidenburg | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | twitter gives them idea with Wiipedia site searchers | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | That's how the cleansers would go about | Jun 28 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Take SITE_X to the cleaners | Jun 28 16:26 |
| schestowitz | DDOS, removal, smears, etc. | Jun 28 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Novell employees spread lies about me | Jun 28 16:26 |
| M$ lies about everyone. | Jun 28 16:27 | |
| It's the only way they know how to complete. It's not like they can write software. | Jun 28 16:27 | |
| They don't just lie, they persistently harass and seek to destroy. | Jun 28 16:28 | |
| Very evil people. | Jun 28 16:28 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Word alternative keeps getting better http://www.macworld.com/article/141243/2009/06/mellel2.html?t=201 | Jun 28 16:28 |
| ToXedVirus | OMG are you for serious? | Jun 28 16:28 |
| schestowitz | twitter: they prepare templates | Jun 28 16:28 |
| Examples, Tim Bray, Peter Guttmann, Peter Quinn. | Jun 28 16:28 | |
| schestowitz | Like dossiers | Jun 28 16:28 |
| schestowitz | And they pass them off to dismiss people | Jun 28 16:28 |
| schestowitz | They falsely accuse me of blaming Reiser's murder on Microsoft | Jun 28 16:29 |
| schestowitz | It's a lie that they keep repeating and spreading | Jun 28 16:29 |
| fewa | no mention of openoffice.org? wtf | Jun 28 16:29 |
| schestowitz | fewa: silly Mac sites | Jun 28 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Watching MS news these days is enjoryable | Jun 28 16:29 |
| schestowitz | They got NOTHING. | Jun 28 16:29 |
| fewa | they mention like 10 mac-only programs and not the biggest Office competitor | Jun 28 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Well, actually no.. | Jun 28 16:30 |
| schestowitz | They have Vista7 | Jun 28 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Many headlines about a product that does not exist | Jun 28 16:30 |
| fewa | correction: the biggest alternative, all ODF software doesnt really cmpete | Jun 28 16:30 |
| schestowitz | MS Collusionware 3.0: http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2009/06/22/daily3.html | Jun 28 16:30 |
| fewa | (conforming ODF) | Jun 28 16:30 |
| Those have mostly been upsell stories, a repeat of the Vista Capable fiasco | Jun 28 16:30 | |
| "Give us your money now and we promise Vista 7 will work with your computer when we release it." Ha, ha. | Jun 28 16:31 | |
| schestowitz | What was that mapping service for connection.. | Jun 28 16:31 |
| Who's going to be dumb enough to fall for that one again? | Jun 28 16:31 | |
| schestowitz | Let me check something.. | Jun 28 16:31 |
| ToXedVirus | I thought this is a linux fanatics channel | Jun 28 16:31 |
| ToXedVirus | why do you even bother talking about windows? | Jun 28 16:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Organ donor. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/9445.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/523147.html | Jun 28 16:32 | |
| ToXedVirus | Its an unholy word, i will kill you for saying it out loud! | Jun 28 16:32 |
| fewa | thats the first thing i do when someone trusts me with their ocmputer | Jun 28 16:32 |
| fewa | i install firefox and openoffice | Jun 28 16:32 |
| ToXedVirus, I'd love to hear some good free software news. | Jun 28 16:32 | |
| fewa | and if they have a fake DNS ISP i switch their DNS | Jun 28 16:32 |
| ToXedVirus | heh, that good news was when vista was released | Jun 28 16:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.muckety.com/Intellectual-Ventures/5003115.muckety | Jun 28 16:33 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/04/reform-tomtom-ms-trolls/ | Jun 28 16:34 |
| amarsh04 | I put the Free pdf viewer Jakarta on the step-daughter's windows machine, along with firefox and openoffice and avg | Jun 28 16:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.muckety.com/897792228FFFA019E542A0A86226FE6D.map | Jun 28 16:35 |
| fewa | geeze this might throw kinks in In Re Bilski | Jun 28 16:35 |
| amarsh04 | adobe pdf reader was on the machine but the eula looked bad | Jun 28 16:35 |
| fewa | people need to keep a close reading to that case and any legislations effect | Jun 28 16:35 |
| ToXedVirus | amarsh04 isn't the adobe reader free? | Jun 28 16:35 |
| fewa | amarsh04, adobe PDF is a huge security risk | Jun 28 16:36 |
| amarsh04 | not free as in freedom, and it phones home | Jun 28 16:36 |
| amarsh04 | and is huge compared to Jakarta which has source code available | Jun 28 16:36 |
| _Hicham_ | Adobe Reader is a real memory hog | Jun 28 16:36 |
| amarsh04 | or is it Sumatra - sorry for any confusion | Jun 28 16:36 |
| fewa | security is my main problem with it | Jun 28 16:36 |
| fewa | it has had fully remote exploitable security problems | Jun 28 16:37 |
| fewa | that can compramise the full user account | Jun 28 16:37 |
| ToXedVirus | Does that freeproject have a website? I cant find it easily on google | Jun 28 16:37 |
| fewa | cause they dont just make it render the damn page | Jun 28 16:37 |
| fewa | about the tom tom article: Even current windows support ext2 | Jun 28 16:40 |
| fewa | through a kernel mode driver, that is very well implamented | Jun 28 16:40 |
| amarsh04 | Sumatra is the correct name: http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/index.html | Jun 28 16:40 |
| fewa | has support for hidden files == . and i believe even symbolic links | Jun 28 16:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Payola bloggers, FTC is watching you < http://ping.fm/1D35h?p=5013 >. They should go after those feeding with bribes, e.g. Edelman, W-E... | Jun 28 16:42 | |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 16:43 | |
| fewa | schestowitz, lol BillG has a patent mill in his house | Jun 28 16:43 |
| fewa | thats good | Jun 28 16:43 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.80.198.40) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 16:44 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/ubuntu-wiki-lock-in/ Ubuntu Wiki lock-in | Jun 28 16:48 |
| schestowitz | What's this about? | Jun 28 16:48 |
| fewa | schestowitz, it that is true than the ubuntu wiki violates copyrights | Jun 28 16:49 |
| fewa | cause there is plenty of GFDL1.2+ (which is mostly CC-BY-SA-3.0 now) and CC stuff | Jun 28 16:49 |
| fewa | hmm the wiki is down | Jun 28 16:51 |
| fewa | probably FUD | Jun 28 16:52 |
| schestowitz | fewa: ask tacone | Jun 28 16:53 |
| schestowitz | I read it very quickly | Jun 28 16:53 |
| fewa | It would have been nice if you had checked it before just repeating it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiLicensing | Jun 28 16:53 |
| fewa | That’s something that Matthew East worked on and the CC approved it. | Jun 28 16:53 |
| fewa | the second comment | Jun 28 16:53 |
| tacone | just a terroristic headline | Jun 28 16:53 |
| fewa | but i cant see the page cause its down | Jun 28 16:53 |
| schestowitz | fewa: Gates will "heal the World" with patents | Jun 28 16:53 |
| tacone | there are issue with the ubuntu wiki licensing. it's simply not decided yet | Jun 28 16:53 |
| fewa | where did that come from? | Jun 28 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Pharma patents, software patents, software coupons for kids in college, etc. | Jun 28 16:53 |
| schestowitz | They sure "care about us" | Jun 28 16:54 |
| tacone | so fedora people are not sure if and how they can copy things from it. | Jun 28 16:54 |
| fewa | thats the general PR | Jun 28 16:54 |
| fewa | selling us bak our freedom peacemeal | Jun 28 16:54 |
| fewa | should be CC-BY-SA-3.0 | Jun 28 16:54 |
| tacone | canonical looked in the issue sometime ago. they have a blueprint etc | Jun 28 16:54 |
| tacone | but they never got done anything about it. | Jun 28 16:54 |
| fewa | if there is GFDL stuff, or if they want to protect themselves from GFDL problems they need to act now | Jun 28 16:55 |
| fewa | as that GFDL 1.3 clause will expire | Jun 28 16:55 |
| *schestowitz thinks of logging on while on vacation just to edit the BN wiki massively. | Jun 28 16:55 | |
| tacone | yet, I'm a bastard who copy pasted that planet fedora post without looking at their (never realized) specification | Jun 28 16:55 |
| schestowitz | We need a Vista7 failure list for example | Jun 28 16:56 |
| fewa | also mention that Vista 7 even identifys itsself as windows 6.1, ie vista.1 | Jun 28 16:56 |
| fewa | perhaps | Jun 28 16:56 |
| MinceR | i thought twitter was making one already | Jun 28 16:57 |
| yes, it's a little sloppy right now. I've been busy with other work. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215957 | Jun 28 16:58 | |
| I also have a Vista 7 hype log. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/216759 | Jun 28 16:59 | |
| MinceR | :) | Jun 28 16:59 |
| schestowitz | twitter: we can merge | Jun 28 16:59 |
| schestowitz | I need to do one for BN posts | Jun 28 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Indexes of articles | Jun 28 16:59 |
| You are welcome to anything in those logs. | Jun 28 16:59 | |
| schestowitz | I was planning time offline, but I can't help going online to check up some stuff | Jun 28 17:00 |
| oh my | Jun 28 17:00 | |
| schestowitz | I need to make indexes that identify MS lobbyists too | Jun 28 17:00 |
| schestowitz | But if I read the news, then I get tempted to write about it | Jun 28 17:00 |
| _Hicham_ | I am an MS lobbyist | Jun 28 17:00 |
| you don't really need to, you just really want to. | Jun 28 17:00 | |
| schestowitz | Doing the Wiki resolves the issue of temptation to write | Jun 28 17:00 |
| I understand the feeling. | Jun 28 17:01 | |
| schestowitz | Groklaw took a break to organise pages, as well | Jun 28 17:01 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, IBM wants you. You are WANTED | Jun 28 17:01 |
| _Hicham_ | I am gonna buy MS and Novell soon | Jun 28 17:01 |
| _Hicham_ | why would IBM wants me? | Jun 28 17:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Watch the Murdoch press airing political anti-EU (trade violations mixed with "agenda"): http://ping.fm/YXdLs | Jun 28 17:02 | |
| Great lies are so insulting. | Jun 28 17:02 | |
| schestowitz | Dman. | Jun 28 17:02 |
| schestowitz | I can't find on Youtube just the "wanted dead or alive" quote from bush | Jun 28 17:03 |
| schestowitz | I can only find one that's PR | Jun 28 17:03 |
| schestowitz | The Bush apology: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUCJlV6s0dU | Jun 28 17:03 |
| schestowitz | re: "dead or alive" and "bring em on" | Jun 28 17:03 |
| fewa | yeah what bullshit | Jun 28 17:03 |
| fewa | Europe trade is great | Jun 28 17:03 |
| schestowitz | Who's the target?? :-) | Jun 28 17:03 |
| schestowitz | "Bribe em on [...] to the white house..?" | Jun 28 17:04 |
| schestowitz | "Bring em on Bring em on Bring em on Bring em on Bring em on Bring em on " | Jun 28 17:04 |
| schestowitz | Watch this video | Jun 28 17:04 |
| schestowitz | He's like a kid... he talks like a child. | Jun 28 17:04 |
| schestowitz | Worse than Palin. | Jun 28 17:05 |
| fewa | "Mission Accomplished!" | Jun 28 17:05 |
| *dlmarti has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 28 17:05 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : http://photofunia.com/view/9_5rTBtmgSzFSZI6IWjhPg/ | Jun 28 17:05 |
| schestowitz | MS: US falls behind in spending on innovation < http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/42973/140/ > | Jun 28 17:06 |
| fewa | :P | Jun 28 17:06 |
| schestowitz | They try to justify offshoring | Jun 28 17:06 |
| fewa | schestowitz, look at the sidebar PR | Jun 28 17:07 |
| schestowitz | fewa: /what/ mission? | Jun 28 17:07 |
| fewa | thats the problem, hes a kid, its just "mission accomplished!" | Jun 28 17:07 |
| schestowitz | GI Bush | Jun 28 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Yikes | Jun 28 17:08 |
| schestowitz | I better get that guy. | Jun 28 17:08 |
| schestowitz | Make a killing for a million :-p | Jun 28 17:08 |
| schestowitz | http://photofunia.com/view/9_5rTBtmgSzFSZI6IWjhPg/ | Jun 28 17:08 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_ already paints a target on me | Jun 28 17:08 |
| schestowitz | fewa: yes, it's pro-MS | Jun 28 17:09 |
| _Hicham_ | http://photofunia.com/view/6Kiv6MnIXi61V9NRs2pzzQ/ | Jun 28 17:09 |
| fewa | 100% of it | Jun 28 17:09 |
| schestowitz | See BN archives... they also host Enderlies. | Jun 28 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Payola bloggers, FTC is watching you < http://government.zdnet.com/?p=5013http://government.zdnet.com/?p=5013 > | Jun 28 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Enderle is watched | Jun 28 17:09 |
| schestowitz | He keeps a mustache for camouflage | Jun 28 17:10 |
| *ugufjhfj (n=ugufjhfj@modemcable213.226-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 17:10 | |
| fewa | just put this in adblock: tgdaily.com###wrapper > :not(#inner_wrapper) | Jun 28 17:10 |
| fewa | tgdaily.com###inner_wrapper > :not(#content_lr) | Jun 28 17:10 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: fill the blank: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10271908-71.html (What drives Steve Jobs?) | Jun 28 17:11 |
| MinceR | he should just hurry up | Jun 28 17:11 |
| _Hicham_ | http://photofunia.com/view/4-16LLdTyKRuvweap4yAWA/ | Jun 28 17:11 |
| _Hicham_ | http://photofunia.com/view/dERTfW_e1z0k2lEGuvdhAA/ | Jun 28 17:12 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: ah, that's history | Jun 28 17:12 |
| schestowitz | My incarnation post-2007 is feistier | Jun 28 17:12 |
| schestowitz | It has Chris Pirillo links | Jun 28 17:13 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I mailed it to a cousin for kicks because he likes those "put your face here" sites | Jun 28 17:14 |
| schestowitz | These used to be popular in print before the Internet was around. DisneyWorld might still do these. | Jun 28 17:14 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe it is Chris Pirillo sponsored | Jun 28 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Zoho sells out: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Messaging-and-Collaboration/Zoho-Fashions-New-SAAS-to-OnPremise-Plugin-For-Microsoft-SharePoint-550301/ | Jun 28 17:15 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I.e. MS-sponsored | Jun 28 17:15 |
| schestowitz | You know where Chris gets his funds,.. | Jun 28 17:15 |
| _Hicham_ | Yes, I know that | Jun 28 17:15 |
| _Hicham_ | soon it will be Hicham-sponsored | Jun 28 17:15 |
| _Hicham_ | when I will have a lot of money | Jun 28 17:16 |
| schestowitz | When I go on vacation next week I'll expand the Wiki a lot. http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/DoJ_vs_Microsoft | Jun 28 17:17 |
| schestowitz | Someone just sent me some advice | Jun 28 17:17 |
| schestowitz | The Comes page is PageRank 6 and this stuff does get accessed as it gets tidier. | Jun 28 17:17 |
| schestowitz | A lawyer I speak to might use it. | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | "It's something I wanted to do for many years but never found the | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | time. There's going to be a fair bit of overlap with the Comes | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | exhibits. But there should be a good supply of other Microsoft | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | documents because the Comes case settled well before the plaintiffs | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | finished presenting their case. | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | A tip that might come in handy if you retain the table format. The | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | dates in the third column are somewhat problematic to sort, at least | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | in OOo 2.4. (Haven't checked in OOo 3.x). If you can script something | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | to switch the dates from MM/DD/YYYY format to YYYY/MM/DD format, you | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | could then do a row sort by the third column to produce a timeline | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | version of the exhibit list. Sort by the first column to switch them | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | back into exhibit number order. | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | OTOH, you could export the table to CSV, then get its entries into a | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | relational database that can give you more flexibility in creating | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | views, adding columns and fields, etc. Word processor tables really | Jun 28 17:18 |
| schestowitz | aren't the best tool for this kind of data." | Jun 28 17:18 |
| gnumeric and most reasonable software can sort dates regardless of format. I wonder what they were trying to sort with. | Jun 28 17:20 | |
| Don't waste too much time on that one, reasonable people will do good things with what's important - your actual research. | Jun 28 17:21 | |
| Of course, if you enjoy that kind of problem it would not be a bad thing to do on your vacation. :) | Jun 28 17:22 | |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 28 17:23 | |
| schestowitz | "That teenager, who goes by the name Ubuntu..." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204621904574250054110699822.html | Jun 28 17:25 |
| schestowitz | twitter: we need HTML, so no tables per se | Jun 28 17:25 |
| schestowitz | I'm pretty happy with how the Wiki works, overall. But it needs tons of work | Jun 28 17:25 |
| fewa | ughh paid articles | Jun 28 17:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the bread all turned green. went out for more. b33r and whine too. we are now drinking it. dinner will be whatever's on hand. kids'll live. | Jun 28 17:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #michaeljackson is still front page of EVERY PAPER. apparently he's still dead. who knew? | Jun 28 17:27 | |
| schestowitz | MJ 'ruins' the music channels too | Jun 28 17:27 |
| fewa | lol | Jun 28 17:27 |
| schestowitz | Several days after his death Chart Show is just MJ all the time | Jun 28 17:27 |
| schestowitz | Not that I mind it | Jun 28 17:27 |
| schestowitz | I like MJ's music (as a whole) | Jun 28 17:27 |
| fewa | and they will be attacking anyone who plays his music for the next 50 years | Jun 28 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Why? | Jun 28 17:28 |
| schestowitz | It's no Gary Glitter | Jun 28 17:28 |
| fewa | copyright | Jun 28 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Jun 28 17:28 |
| fewa | without paying the mighty SONY | Jun 28 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Snoop : the king of pot | Jun 28 17:28 |
| schestowitz | MJ: kind of pop | Jun 28 17:28 |
| schestowitz | *ng | Jun 28 17:28 |
| fewa | lol | Jun 28 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Britney: queen of poop | Jun 28 17:29 |
| _Hicham_ | king of pop is schestowitz | Jun 28 17:29 |
| schestowitz | I don't sing, _Hicham_ | Jun 28 17:29 |
| schestowitz | I suck at it | Jun 28 17:29 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/music.htm | Jun 28 17:29 |
| schestowitz | People pretend Vista 7 already exists | Jun 28 17:30 |
| schestowitz | This is bad. This is like PR. | Jun 28 17:30 |
| schestowitz | "I use a laptop that has both Ubuntu and Windows 7 installed." http://www.cnet.com/8301-17920_1-10273187-84.html | Jun 28 17:31 |
| schestowitz | Funny. I didn't know time travel from October was possible. Vista 7 does not exist yet. | Jun 28 17:31 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : just like we use RC distros | Jun 28 17:32 |
| fewa | wow, Jobim, Gilberto, | Jun 28 17:32 |
| fewa | Getz | Jun 28 17:32 |
| fewa | you have that Getz and Gilberto album? | Jun 28 17:32 |
| fewa | with Girl from Impanima as the first track? | Jun 28 17:33 |
| schestowitz | Can I add patent lawyers to BN IRC aggregator? | Jun 28 17:34 |
| schestowitz | I mean, should we have some of them to keep track of EU and swpats? | Jun 28 17:34 |
| fewa | sure | Jun 28 17:34 |
| Ick, US TV - devoid of reality and drifting further towards the most crass kinds of exploitation. Basketball coach who becomes a whore and enjoys it, "political orthodoxy" pap. | Jun 28 17:34 | |
| schestowitz | fewa: I have loads | Jun 28 17:34 |
| fewa | (speaking for myself) | Jun 28 17:34 |
| fewa | i love that cuban and brazilian stuff | Jun 28 17:34 |
| schestowitz | It's soothing | Jun 28 17:34 |
| schestowitz | I also don't get distracted | Jun 28 17:35 |
| fewa | Afro Cuban all stars | Jun 28 17:35 |
| schestowitz | Cause the lyrics mean nothing to me | Jun 28 17:35 |
| try silence | Jun 28 17:35 | |
| fewa | ^^ | Jun 28 17:35 |
| schestowitz | They support Free software | Jun 28 17:35 |
| very relaxing. | Jun 28 17:35 | |
| fewa | i like silence too | Jun 28 17:35 |
| schestowitz | Jobim.. | Jun 28 17:35 |
| fewa | I love playing Cuban music | Jun 28 17:35 |
| schestowitz | Silence is good if you live in quiet places | Jun 28 17:36 |
| schestowitz | No traffic, no colleagues, no neighbours, no storms | Jun 28 17:36 |
| there is noise here, not so bad | Jun 28 17:36 | |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.113.136.180) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 17:36 | |
| fewa | Paquito D'Rivera | Jun 28 17:36 |
| storms are nice | Jun 28 17:36 | |
| schestowitz | Should I add http://twitter.com/Ipkat ? | Jun 28 17:37 |
| schestowitz | twitter: esp. if you don't need to be on the way back home | Jun 28 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Someone's angry. | Jun 28 17:40 |
| schestowitz | "Roy Schestowitz (of boycottnovell.com) is a dick. Period. I would never respect anyone who spends more effort spreading fear and bringing things down rather than contributing anything significant." | Jun 28 17:40 |
| Wow, those were clever windows. | Jun 28 17:40 | |
| schestowitz | Courtesy of "Fuck you, Richard Stallman and other GNU/Trolls" < http://anirudhsanjeev.org/fuck-you-richard-stallman-and-other-gnutrolls/ > | Jun 28 17:40 |
| schestowitz | Apparently RMS is a troll now | Jun 28 17:41 |
| schestowitz | He's a GNU troll | Jun 28 17:41 |
| schestowitz | And I'm not pro-Linux. Hehe. | Jun 28 17:41 |
| M$ people have always said such things. | Jun 28 17:41 | |
| schestowitz | Let's see if it's a Mono dev | Jun 28 17:41 |
| schestowitz | "0 Responses to “Fuck you, Richard Stallman and other GNU/Trolls”" | Jun 28 17:41 |
| schestowitz | You don't say... | Jun 28 17:41 |
| schestowitz | http://anirudhsanjeev.org/about-2/ "I am a 21 year old undergrad at the Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur." | Jun 28 17:42 |
| It's funny that I got more hate in the 700 Slashdot comments yesterday than RMS does. | Jun 28 17:42 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?q=site:anirudhsanjeev.org+novell&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en | Jun 28 17:42 |
| RMS hate is a favorite Slashdot crapflood. | Jun 28 17:42 | |
| The reversal of directions shows clearly that both were astroturf rather than community. | Jun 28 17:43 | |
| I'll pass on reading the hateful little blog by yet another astroturfer who claims to be a student. | Jun 28 17:44 | |
| amarsh04 | I still have to find an-online article for RMS about the role of (nearly extinct) marsupials in reducing the fuel load of the .au bushland | Jun 28 17:44 |
| schestowitz | ستولمان في مواجهة .net و monoستولمان في مواجهة .net و mono | Jun 28 17:44 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxac.org/forum/linuxac23/thread27178.html | Jun 28 17:44 |
| schestowitz | We're mentioned here too | Jun 28 17:44 |
| schestowitz | twitter: it's not an AstroTurf | Jun 28 17:45 |
| schestowitz | This chap has a long-running blog | Jun 28 17:45 |
| schestowitz | With archives | Jun 28 17:45 |
| schestowitz | But /. anti-RMS is similar to CompTIA anti-RMS | Jun 28 17:45 |
| schestowitz | It's MS agenda | Jun 28 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Daemonise, Daemonise, Daemonise. | Jun 28 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Ensure people stop following GPL | Jun 28 17:45 |
| fewa | take out the credibility | Jun 28 17:45 |
| schestowitz | The MS kryptonite | Jun 28 17:45 |
| Ick, I could not resist. -> " This rant doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that I intern at Microsoft and that I am writing an extension to the MonoDevelop project. It is a rant to express my core belief that freedom is open to interpretation. I believe viral copyleft licenses like GPL are evil" | Jun 28 17:46 | |
| No, what he thinks has nothing to do with his first employer, nothing at all. | Jun 28 17:46 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : do u know arabic? | Jun 28 17:47 |
| fewa | what junk | Jun 28 17:47 |
| schestowitz | twitter: Slashdot defaced your submissionb | Jun 28 17:47 |
| schestowitz | They added an attack on Bn to the link | Jun 28 17:47 |
| schestowitz | The one where Jo Shills says BN wants MS employees dead | Jun 28 17:47 |
| schestowitz | Lies, lies... | Jun 28 17:47 |
| schestowitz | Anonymous comments presented as a site policy, in a site that does not moderate comments | Jun 28 17:48 |
| Yes, I saw that. They want to be "fair" I suppose. Can't just report what RMS said, they have to add M$ lies to it. | Jun 28 17:48 | |
| schestowitz | Mono proponents, get that pooper scooper again. | Jun 28 17:48 |
| MinceR | well, /. is bought and paid for. | Jun 28 17:48 |
| _Hicham_ | wow, I surprised that schestowitz understands arabic | Jun 28 17:49 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: well, same company, parent company too | Jun 28 17:49 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I don't | Jun 28 17:49 |
| schestowitz | I forgot what I knew | Jun 28 17:49 |
| schestowitz | Some words, grammar. | Jun 28 17:49 |
| _Hicham_ | how did u understand what it is in the forum then? | Jun 28 17:49 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: what does it say? | Jun 28 17:49 |
| schestowitz | I see many links | Jun 28 17:49 |
| schestowitz | I forgot the alphabet too | Jun 28 17:50 |
| _Hicham_ | that stallman is against mono | Jun 28 17:50 |
| _Hicham_ | there is even some links to BN | Jun 28 17:50 |
| _Hicham_ | يا سيد شيسطوفيتز | Jun 28 17:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] URGENT: Unlimited Software Patents In New Zealand. Act Now! http://ping.fm/T9wUP | Jun 28 17:52 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @macrossactual Finally a voice of reason on #michaeljackson http://tinyurl.com/kj8u36 | Jun 28 17:52 | |
| schestowitz | *sighs* more MJ | Jun 28 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Even the people who write "stop about MJ" are actually doing more of the same | Jun 28 17:52 |
| schestowitz | It's like the "no such thing as bad publicity thing".. and it's viral | Jun 28 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Or the "don't touch this button" reverse-spychology... "don't mention X.."... "don't peep in this box" | Jun 28 17:53 |
| _Hicham_ | Open Invention Network can't protect Linux from Mono lawsuits? | Jun 28 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Hardly | Jun 28 17:53 |
| *amarsh04 has a ☕ | Jun 28 17:54 | |
| schestowitz | They list some other modules | Jun 28 17:54 |
| schestowitz | OIN= Maginot Line | Jun 28 17:54 |
| schestowitz | as zoobab puts it anyway | Jun 28 17:54 |
| schestowitz | Did it save TomTom? | Jun 28 17:54 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Jun 28 17:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bilski at the BPAI - What a Mess (Part 1) http://ping.fm/BGwxI | Jun 28 17:57 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock @WeMissMJBlog no, mentioning the sacred hashtag does not mean I want your spam kthx #michaeljackson | Jun 28 17:57 | |
| _Hicham_ | so it won't save me | Jun 28 17:57 |
| _Hicham_ | but why would someone use Mono for development? | Jun 28 17:57 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft will give you the kafah | Jun 28 17:57 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: do you have any good summary of what MS does in your country? | Jun 28 17:58 |
| schestowitz | I have almost not references about it. I even have some from small countries, but the rest is not in EN | Jun 28 17:58 |
| _Hicham_ | kafah? | Jun 28 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Morocco y 857,446 1,676,623 96% 0.2% 14% http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/10/edgi-continued-dumping-vs-gnu/ | Jun 28 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft dumped on Morocco | Jun 28 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Antitrust material | Jun 28 18:00 |
| schestowitz | Highly confidential | Jun 28 18:00 |
| _Hicham_ | never heard of that | Jun 28 18:00 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft is doing great with the govenment | Jun 28 18:01 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.80.211.74) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 18:01 | |
| schestowitz | Do you know ACTA? | Jun 28 18:01 |
| _Hicham_ | everyone uses Windows in here | Jun 28 18:01 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Jun 28 18:01 |
| schestowitz | http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/3691/125/ | Jun 28 18:01 |
| schestowitz | "Inside U.S. Trade reports (sub required) that the next round of ACTA negotiations, which had been scheduled for next month in Morocco, has been delayed at the request of U.S. officials." | Jun 28 18:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock @tagdef and @computersworld 1. your "service" is spammy. 2. if their home page is on tinyurl.com, it's spam. | Jun 28 18:02 | |
| _Hicham_ | ah, ACTA | Jun 28 18:02 |
| _Hicham_ | I ve heard of it before | Jun 28 18:03 |
| _Hicham_ | Morocco already signed it | Jun 28 18:03 |
| schestowitz | Well, puppet nations (all nations) do | Jun 28 18:05 |
| schestowitz | We need the likes of Chavez here | Jun 28 18:05 |
| schestowitz | The people who say, "wait, what the heck am I signing?" | Jun 28 18:05 |
| schestowitz | Most politicians are stupid lawyers who ask, "what would I get in reward for signing it?" | Jun 28 18:06 |
| the comments section looked so empty, I thought I'd add some sunshine | Jun 28 18:06 | |
| schestowitz | The US can also use economic sanctions to impose such stuff | Jun 28 18:06 |
| http://anirudhsanjeev.org/fuck-you-richard-stallman-and-other-gnutrolls/ | Jun 28 18:06 | |
| yes, I know, I fed the troll | Jun 28 18:06 | |
| schestowitz | He uses Mono??/ | Jun 28 18:06 |
| schestowitz | Any page to show this? | Jun 28 18:06 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jun 28 18:07 | |
| the page says so. he works for M$ and works on mono extensions. | Jun 28 18:07 | |
| " I intern at Microsoft and that I am writing an extension to the MonoDevelop project" | Jun 28 18:08 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?q=site:anirudhsanjeev.org+mono&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en | Jun 28 18:08 |
| schestowitz | Aha! | Jun 28 18:08 |
| I'm not sure why you were reading the blog pages of a mono developer, but there it is. | Jun 28 18:09 | |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | Jun 28 18:12 | |
| schestowitz | This page's content won't show up even with JS: http://www.buntfu.com/news,page,63,topic_id,content_pages | Jun 28 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Watch the banner image with the girl. Hehe. | Jun 28 18:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] photos up from May 2009 Vagabonds http://is.gd/1h8zQ still haven't tagged all | Jun 28 18:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] LiMux: Munich Linux (R)evolution has its Imitators, http://ping.fm/hCMIY | Jun 28 18:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] "Ralf und Florian" (3rd Kraftwerk album) is very listenable but ridiculously mellow. German art school hippies. | Jun 28 18:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Fedora 12 release name is: Constantine http://ping.fm/UVhHB No Mono in it. | Jun 28 18:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] MicroPirates, Censorship & Openbytes to be "ripped apart"? http://tinyurl.com/laonv9 #microsoft #windows #vista #7 | Jun 28 18:17 | |
| schestowitz | New; http://www.omni-ts.com/sitemap.html | Jun 28 18:19 |
| schestowitz | Is AT&T playing gatekeeper to the Wireless Web? < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10268319-94.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0 > AT and T still king of corruption :-) | Jun 28 18:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Stanford Bribes Helped Stall SEC Case, Agency’s Lawsuit Alleges http://ping.fm/eFoRZ | Jun 28 18:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Moby has a blog. "the riaa needs to be disbanded." http://ping.fm/iaEUC | Jun 28 18:27 | |
| fewa | Congress members should be able to afford their own research | Jun 28 18:27 |
| fewa | thinking of http://readthebill.org/ | Jun 28 18:28 |
| ATT is evil. | Jun 28 18:29 | |
| it's another bad weekend for US banks. 5 more go down, bringing the total to 45 failures this year. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCbHA.m7rikc | Jun 28 18:29 | |
| fewa | no matter how many pieces you break AT&T up into, it always come together again | Jun 28 18:29 |
| fewa | more corrupt | Jun 28 18:30 |
| fewa | colluding with NSA and the bush administration | Jun 28 18:30 |
| schestowitz | And for political censorship too, as an ISP | Jun 28 18:30 |
| fewa | corrupting with the government to avoid presecuriton of its crimes | Jun 28 18:30 |
| fewa | with the executive | Jun 28 18:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Five Banks Are Seized, Raising U.S. Failures This Year to 45 http://ping.fm/8JTCN | Jun 28 18:32 | |
| ->" Regulators have seized the most U.S. banks this year since 1993. The U.S. economy has shed about 6 million jobs since the recession began in December 2007. Foreclosure filings surpassed 300,000 for the third straight month" | Jun 28 18:32 | |
| that's roughly a million people losing their homes in three months. | Jun 28 18:33 | |
| schestowitz | http://officeshots.org/pages/about | Jun 28 18:33 |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 28 18:33 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: no | Jun 28 18:33 |
| schestowitz | families | Jun 28 18:34 |
| schestowitz | It\s called repossessions here. Either that or foreclosure are Orwelian terms to beautify saying "you lost your house" | Jun 28 18:34 |
| schestowitz | Like 'debt" gets called "cedit" | Jun 28 18:35 |
| schestowitz | And DRM is associated with "rights" | Jun 28 18:35 |
| schestowitz | As is, "you have rights" | Jun 28 18:35 |
| the real statistic is not tracked or is not reported. | Jun 28 18:35 | |
| schestowitz | But DRM is about taking basic rights away, selling them back at a cost | Jun 28 18:35 |
| schestowitz | twitter: yes | Jun 28 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Jobless claims | Jun 28 18:35 |
| schestowitz | total Bullshit, pardon my language | Jun 28 18:35 |
| schestowitz | It's more like 13% | Jun 28 18:35 |
| I do not know how many of those foreclosures are families and how many are slum lords. | Jun 28 18:35 | |
| schestowitz | They changed the definition | Jun 28 18:36 |
| schestowitz | To beautify it | Jun 28 18:36 |
| schestowitz | twitter: Either way it's not "people" | Jun 28 18:36 |
| schestowitz | It's houses | Jun 28 18:36 |
| schestowitz | Some may be vacant | Jun 28 18:36 |
| true | Jun 28 18:36 | |
| schestowitz | But on average there is more than 1 person per house | Jun 28 18:36 |
| schestowitz | house~=caravan | Jun 28 18:36 |
| schestowitz | ~= in another syntax | Jun 28 18:37 |
| schestowitz | != | Jun 28 18:37 |
| it can be fairly said that more than a million families lost their house in the last four months. | Jun 28 18:37 | |
| surely the majority of house foreclosures fall on families | Jun 28 18:38 | |
| there are probably more families moving from ownership to rent | Jun 28 18:41 | |
| schestowitz | Well, that's for sure | Jun 28 18:42 |
| schestowitz | Statistically it must be the case. | Jun 28 18:42 |
| schestowitz | But had the economy been less imbalanced, your average landlord would maybe live in China | Jun 28 18:43 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 28 18:44 | |
| schestowitz | Hypocrites: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/24/AR2009062403452.html U.S. Presses China on Censorship | Jun 28 18:47 |
| schestowitz | Radio Host Is Arrested in Threats on 3 Judges < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/25/us/25threat.html?ref=us > | Jun 28 18:48 |
| schestowitz | And the DaemonTroll was here making threats or some sort too | Jun 28 18:48 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Michael Jackson has a US patent on motion of feet and 'stuff': http://ping.fm/eR6Dh Shame on USPTO | Jun 28 18:52 | |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-196-62.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 18:52 | |
| here's praise for mac mini hardware http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/Apples-600-Mac-Mini-Costs-It-Nearly-400-to-Make-Says-iSuppli-163404/ | Jun 28 18:52 | |
| fewa | wtf | Jun 28 18:53 |
| I'm not into paying $100 for imaginary property, but it's nice to know what's in it. | Jun 28 18:53 | |
| I visited a big box computer store yesterday. There were a lot of nice small laptops, all polluted with non free software. | Jun 28 18:54 | |
| fewa | i think im going to order a hp mini 1000 | Jun 28 18:54 |
| fewa | but id rather have a ARM chip | Jun 28 18:55 |
| It was a Best Buy. There's hardly anyone else left with a computer display like that. | Jun 28 18:55 | |
| I did not see a lot of sales going on. | Jun 28 18:55 | |
| schestowitz | Don't feed Intel | Jun 28 18:57 |
| schestowitz | Criminals make those boards | Jun 28 18:57 |
| yep, profit down 15% http://www.marketwatch.com/m/story/580c5e59-2a80-4f85-ae99-c03eb5e2d389 | Jun 28 18:57 | |
| schestowitz | Whose? | Jun 28 18:57 |
| schestowitz | Well, MS killed "netbooks" | Jun 28 18:57 |
| Best Buy, | Jun 28 18:57 | |
| schestowitz | Bloated, expensive | Jun 28 18:57 |
| fewa | i know, where are the geode netbooks? | Jun 28 18:58 |
| schestowitz | MS didn't like them | Jun 28 18:58 |
| fewa | isnt Intel selling those at a loss to keep AMD out? | Jun 28 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Intel saw profits dive 90% 6 months or so ago | Jun 28 18:58 |
| one of the few surviving retail computer vendors in the US. | Jun 28 18:58 | |
| they have a new CEO http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/stories/2009/06/22/daily30.html | Jun 28 18:58 | |
| schestowitz | fewa: I don't think they lose | Jun 28 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they lose by selling these at the expense of expensive boards | Jun 28 18:59 |
| schestowitz | The cannibalisation-type loss | Jun 28 18:59 |
| schestowitz | Or relative-to-self loss | Jun 28 18:59 |
| doubling down on M$, it seems -> Dunn, a 24-year Best Buy veteran who assumed the role of CEO from the retiring Anderson on Wednesday, said he believes the company’s greatest opportunities lie in home theater, computing and mobile phones, or what he called the “three screens of connectivity.” | Jun 28 18:59 | |
| fewa | hats the only reason they did Atom | Jun 28 19:00 |
| fewa | becuase AMD did it first with geode | Jun 28 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Guatemalan fears a tweet will make him a jailbird http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090626/ap_on_hi_te/lt_tec_guatemala_twitter_arrest | Jun 28 19:01 |
| Aha, -> Dunn said, pointing to the company’s new minority stake in Brammo Inc., an Ashland, Ore.-based company that makes electric motorcycles. Best Buy soon will begin selling the motorcyles at five test stores on the West Coast. | Jun 28 19:01 | |
| Now that would be cool. | Jun 28 19:01 | |
| schestowitz | Groklaw broke its promise of not linking to AP | Jun 28 19:01 |
| I wonder if they knew they linked to AP. | Jun 28 19:02 | |
| amarsh04 | did you email PJ about it schestowitz? | Jun 28 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Electronic snooping bill a 'data grab': privacy advocates (Canada) http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/06/19/tech-internet-communications-electronic-police-bills-surveillance-follo-privacy.html | Jun 28 19:02 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: no | Jun 28 19:02 |
| sounds like a good idea, they made the promise for their own protection. | Jun 28 19:02 | |
| fewa | who else sells decent netbooks? | Jun 28 19:03 |
| fewa | dell, asus | Jun 28 19:03 |
| fewa | any arm ones available right now | Jun 28 19:03 |
| amarsh04 | or if you want mips, www.lemote.com | Jun 28 19:03 |
| http://gizmodo.com/5162905/best-buy-to-sell-12000-electric-motorcycle-probably-with-a-4000-service-plan | Jun 28 19:04 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.redhat.com/rhel/desktop/ | Jun 28 19:04 |
| a link that works http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/28/brammo-enertia-electric-motorcycle-to-be-sold-at-best-buy/ | Jun 28 19:05 | |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.82.22.16) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 19:06 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] or i could just get the working hd from the dead n410c. now using kubuntu 7.10, not booted in 526 days. I am idiot. fucksake. | Jun 28 19:07 | |
| the English page is not as cool as the Chinese page http://www.lemote.com/english/index.html | Jun 28 19:11 | |
| wow, free software and less than 12 watt power consumption http://www.lemote.com/english/yeeloong.html | Jun 28 19:13 | |
| schestowitz | Solang Photo Manager for GNOME/Ubuntu http://www.kabatology.com/06/26/solang-photo-manager-for-gnomeubuntu/ | Jun 28 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Engrish here: http://www.engrish.com/ | Jun 28 19:15 |
| hmm http://lists.debian.org/debian-mips/2009/01/msg00027.html | Jun 28 19:18 | |
| fewa | what type of chip is that | Jun 28 19:19 |
| fewa | STLS 2F | Jun 28 19:19 |
| 355 euros? ouch! http://www.tekmote.nl/epages/61504599.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61504599/Products/CFL-001 | Jun 28 19:19 | |
| there's gotta be a better price on the thing than that | Jun 28 19:20 | |
| schestowitz | Fear of fsck < http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/fear-of-fsck.html > | Jun 28 19:20 |
| M$ people project their problems onto free software and are afraid of everything. | Jun 28 19:25 | |
| this fear is a form of lock in | Jun 28 19:26 | |
| FUD at its finest | Jun 28 19:26 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] kubuntu gutsy 7.10 is so old you can't get updates any more. can't download 9.10 iso until f's asleep and not watching telly tho. | Jun 28 19:27 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 28 19:29 | |
| *yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-240-114-114.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 19:29 | |
| yuhong | Other regrets include not mentioning that Windows-only open source is actually quite dangerous, as I have discussed before. | Jun 28 19:30 |
| yuhong | Speaking of Apple and open source, what do you think of this from Slashdot. | Jun 28 19:31 |
| yuhong | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/06/28/1351220/The-Open-Source-Design-Conundrum | Jun 28 19:31 |
| *yuhong has quit (Client Quit) | Jun 28 19:33 | |
| fewa | apple usability is a myth, they spend millions of dollars to run ads showing how to use their products | Jun 28 19:35 |
| *lis` has quit ("baibai<3") | Jun 28 19:35 | |
| fewa | its not inherant, it costs alot of money to train users | Jun 28 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Oh, it's more rubbish from Asay (IMHO) | Jun 28 19:37 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-196-62.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 19:37 | |
| schestowitz | he does damage to open source when he affiliates it with that marketing company | Jun 28 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Some Apple fans are wannabes for the whole apple open source thing | Jun 28 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Pretending like the Microsoft kids with the same fantasy | Jun 28 19:38 |
| fewa | at least apples sells an idea of what computers can be that is useful to individuals | Jun 28 19:38 |
| fewa | rather than only selling more corporate control to IT departments | Jun 28 19:39 |
| fewa | people want to be enthusiastic about computers | Jun 28 19:39 |
| ThistleWeb | I wonder what it's like to use a PC with a single mouse button | Jun 28 19:40 |
| ThistleWeb | a mouse for peeps with mitts on | Jun 28 19:40 |
| fewa | lol, the mighty mouse even has two buttons | Jun 28 19:40 |
| fewa | you just dont see it | Jun 28 19:40 |
| ThistleWeb | I just wondered if it was designed for peeps who are unable to remember which is left and which is right, just bash the button | Jun 28 19:41 |
| fewa | Apple sells enthuriasm about computers and technology | Jun 28 19:41 |
| fewa | Its from he initial Lisa test | Jun 28 19:41 |
| fewa | people had a much harder time with mouses that had more than one button | Jun 28 19:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] http://twitpic.com/8ougd - True to his word, Mr Hussain is deleting comments. Here is one he considers "trolling" and has deleted. | Jun 28 19:42 | |
| fewa | most users have more experience with computers these days so that point is largely moot now | Jun 28 19:42 |
| ThistleWeb | to be fair, as a money making angle, selling a PC with a single button mouse is genius, as most sane peeps will pay extra for a proper one | Jun 28 19:43 |
| fewa | ThistleWeb, thats without basis, as the apple mouse that is sold all have 2 buttons underneath | Jun 28 19:43 |
| fewa | you just have to turn on the second on in the OS, or if its used on another OS i believe it has both | Jun 28 19:43 |
| ThistleWeb | k | Jun 28 19:44 |
| ThistleWeb | is there a scroll wheel on apple mice? | Jun 28 19:44 |
| fewa | its just differnt from the IBM/MS model of more and more features | Jun 28 19:44 |
| fewa | ThistleWeb, yes | Jun 28 19:44 |
| fewa | up/down left/right too | Jun 28 19:44 |
| *ThistleWeb can't live without a scroll wheel on his mouse | Jun 28 19:44 | |
| ThistleWeb | left / right would be different | Jun 28 19:45 |
| fewa | the two-button mouse is just a way of say we have more features | Jun 28 19:45 |
| fewa | the checklist buting | Jun 28 19:45 |
| amarsh04 | neither can I, ThistleWeb | Jun 28 19:45 |
| fewa | i love my little side buttons that i map to page up/page down | Jun 28 19:45 |
| ThistleWeb | I've seen some web designers who think a long horizontal site if great for reading content, so you have to scroll all the was right to get to the end of the sentence, and all the way back to the start of the next one, hopefully remembering what line you were on, and what the end of the last snetence was | Jun 28 19:46 |
| ThistleWeb | my response? close the tab | Jun 28 19:46 |
| fewa | thats when you go view_--> page style-->no style | Jun 28 19:47 |
| MinceR | mine is "fit to width" :> | Jun 28 19:47 |
| MinceR | ctrl+f11 or something like that in opera | Jun 28 19:47 |
| ThistleWeb | I've sat down to PCs with no scroll wheel on the mouse, ARGHHHH!!!! it's horrendous, the amount of times your middle finger caresses what should be the wheel and nothing happens | Jun 28 19:47 |
| ThistleWeb | that's a nice feature in Opera | Jun 28 19:47 |
| fewa | meh page up/down is better IMHO | Jun 28 19:48 |
| ThistleWeb | fewa: this was a concious design decision, not an unstyled version | Jun 28 19:48 |
| MinceR | i like to have both | Jun 28 19:48 |
| MinceR | in fact, sometimes it's nice to have a trackpad handy with circular scrolling :) | Jun 28 19:48 |
| ThistleWeb | it's an idea the designers thought was cool | Jun 28 19:48 |
| MinceR | but yes, not having a scroll wheel is annoying | Jun 28 19:49 |
| ThistleWeb | mice without scoll wheels should be illegal ;) | Jun 28 19:49 |
| schestowitz | http://www.happyassassin.net/2009/06/25/ubuntu-wiki-not-shareable/ | Jun 28 19:49 |
| tacone tessier ThistleWeb ToXedVirus trmanco twitter | Jun 28 19:49 | |
| schestowitz | tacone: see above | Jun 28 19:49 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: maybe Apple's bundle should be illegal :-) | Jun 28 19:50 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Jun 28 19:50 |
| schestowitz | But then again, it's possible to avoid their h/w altogether | Jun 28 19:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] From Uncyclopedia: Objectivist-Oriented Programming http://bit.ly/7SDzu | Jun 28 19:52 | |
| ThistleWeb | it's the little things that annoy too, like in Linux you can scroll an inactive window by hovering your pointer over it, in Windows (XP at least) you have to click in it to make it active before you can scroll | Jun 28 19:55 |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jun 28 19:55 | |
| schestowitz | Hehe. I never tried thar | Jun 28 19:58 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, the lack of more than one desktop, always on top, the programs menu appearing on right click added to that active window scrolling make windows a PITA to use for me | Jun 28 20:00 |
| Konqueror uses vi motion commands for scroll. Between that and track point, I need no mouse. | Jun 28 20:01 | |
| http://bullium.com/support/vim.html#motion | Jun 28 20:03 | |
| http://vimdoc.sourceforge.net/htmldoc/usr_02.html#hjkl | Jun 28 20:03 | |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.69.138) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 20:04 | |
| -> Experienced users prefer the hjkl keys because they are always right under their fingers. Beginners often prefer the arrow keys, because they do not know what the hjkl keys do. | Jun 28 20:04 | |
| :) | Jun 28 20:04 | |
| MinceR | i prefer the arrow keys because they work in all modes :> | Jun 28 20:07 |
| LOL -> schestowitz: Oh, it's more rubbish from Asay (IMHO) | Jun 28 20:07 | |
| _Hicham_ | hkjl keys are better | Jun 28 20:07 |
| _Hicham_ | less stress on ur fingers | Jun 28 20:08 |
| that's one huge troll article there. | Jun 28 20:08 | |
| schestowitz | He does it repeatedly | Jun 28 20:08 |
| It's like I'm reading something from 1997. | Jun 28 20:09 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : give DaemonFC another chance | Jun 28 20:09 |
| What a moron. | Jun 28 20:09 | |
| _Hicham_ | twitter : it is not bad to have morons in the channel | Jun 28 20:09 |
| GCC was not "dirty work" done by IBM. | Jun 28 20:10 | |
| E16, KDE, Gnome and many others are wonderful GUIs made the free software way. | Jun 28 20:10 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: he's unbanned already | Jun 28 20:17 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: he got more chances than he deserved. | Jun 28 20:20 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Mr Hussain thinks he's popular. What you do think? #microsoft #vista #7 | Jun 28 20:22 | |
| _Hicham_ | who is Mr Hussain? | Jun 28 20:28 |
| I ignore hicham | Jun 28 20:29 | |
| is this site gone already http://comcastisfuckingwithyourport53traffic.wordpress.com/ | Jun 28 20:30 | |
| ? | Jun 28 20:30 | |
| fewa | comcast is in the moneybags with the NSA | Jun 28 20:30 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter? | Jun 28 20:31 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter : ? | Jun 28 20:31 |
| schestowitz | "Bottom line : A drive with ext4 file system cannot be mounted within older Linux distributions as they don't have support for ext4." http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2009/06/ext4-file-system-how-to-tips-and-tricks.html | Jun 28 20:32 |
| schestowitz | twitter: why?? | Jun 28 20:33 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I really don't understand twitter | Jun 28 20:33 |
| schestowitz | That site still works | Jun 28 20:33 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: he mistakenly drops many people | Jun 28 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Bloggers too | Jun 28 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Sample set it too small to judge by | Jun 28 20:34 |
| I'm not getting there. | Jun 28 20:34 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: _Hicham_ it not a troll at all | Jun 28 20:34 |
| no? | Jun 28 20:34 | |
| schestowitz | And he maintains mononono | Jun 28 20:34 |
| oh | Jun 28 20:34 | |
| chalk it to personal taste :) | Jun 28 20:35 | |
| ah, that site finally loaded. | Jun 28 20:36 | |
| _Hicham_ | I have no words to describe twitter's attitude | Jun 28 20:36 |
| *jose_X (n=jose@adsl-233-225-31.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 20:36 | |
| Konq said something about loading 5 of 6 images forever | Jun 28 20:37 | |
| no images are apparent | Jun 28 20:37 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : should I ignore twitter too? | Jun 28 20:37 |
| schestowitz | No | Jun 28 20:38 |
| schestowitz | He's just too sensitive with filtering | Jun 28 20:38 |
| schestowitz | He ignores writers based on one article | Jun 28 20:38 |
| schestowitz | Samples too small | Jun 28 20:38 |
| *_Goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 20:39 | |
| _Goblin | hi all | Jun 28 20:39 |
| this image was missing | Jun 28 20:39 | |
| http://s.wordpress.com/wp-content/themes/h4/i/webclip.png | Jun 28 20:39 | |
| schestowitz | Yo. | Jun 28 20:39 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I don't even know why he choosed to do so | Jun 28 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Show this to Mono proponents: http://lwn.net/Articles/338941/ | Jun 28 20:40 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: maybe cause you fed a troll | Jun 28 20:40 |
| schestowitz | It's leading to clutter when a troll is fed | Jun 28 20:41 |
| schestowitz | Because if you ignore the troll you then see replies to invisible stuff | Jun 28 20:41 |
| schestowitz | I have the same issue in USENET with troll feeders | Jun 28 20:41 |
| _Hicham_ | agree | Jun 28 20:41 |
| schestowitz | They bring visibility to insults and foul language | Jun 28 20:41 |
| _Hicham_ | I fed him many times | Jun 28 20:41 |
| schestowitz | I never see insults there unless it's quoted as replies | Jun 28 20:41 |
| _Hicham_ | but not lately | Jun 28 20:41 |
| _Hicham_ | I got used to him | Jun 28 20:42 |
| _Hicham_ | sometimes he brings some useful news | Jun 28 20:42 |
| schestowitz | He probably harasses another place now | Jun 28 20:42 |
| yes, that's probably it. | Jun 28 20:42 | |
| schestowitz | Last week he attacked ubuntu in his blog | Jun 28 20:42 |
| schestowitz | After being banned | Jun 28 20:42 |
| schestowitz | And he also trolled other Linux channels that banned him | Jun 28 20:42 |
| nothing personal, hicham, I just don't have time to read the troll traffic. | Jun 28 20:43 | |
| schestowitz | We got rid of that troll now, having forgiven for months | Jun 28 20:44 |
| schestowitz | He was on a sort of prologed probation | Jun 28 20:44 |
| the trolls feed each other, I'm afraid | Jun 28 20:44 | |
| schestowitz | Got like 10 second chances but only got more aggressive | Jun 28 20:44 |
| ThistleWeb | a prolonged probing huh? sounds either fun or painful depending on your persuasion :P | Jun 28 20:44 |
| schestowitz | The Lixxsux trolls came back here yesterday | Jun 28 20:44 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter : thanks for insulting me | Jun 28 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Talked to each other a lot | Jun 28 20:44 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: probation rather | Jun 28 20:45 |
| schestowitz | And wait.. | Jun 28 20:45 |
| schestowitz | He also has a real probation officer | Jun 28 20:45 |
| Like I said, _Hicham_, sorry | Jun 28 20:45 | |
| schestowitz | I don't know what he did | Jun 28 20:45 |
| schestowitz | But the authorities watch him | Jun 28 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Hyperactive and troublemaking dude | Jun 28 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Something about drinking, IIRC | Jun 28 20:45 |
| ThistleWeb | maybe he's got an asbo for going into shops and shouting codec info at the staff | Jun 28 20:46 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | Jun 28 20:46 | |
| schestowitz | LMAO | Jun 28 20:46 |
| schestowitz | "But, BUT... ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!1 Ogg!! MP3!!!!!1 AAAAAAAARGH!!!" | Jun 28 20:46 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.69.138) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 20:47 | |
| schestowitz | Lots of good Linux news coming | Jun 28 20:47 |
| schestowitz | New Debian 5.0 as well | Jun 28 20:47 |
| ThistleWeb | poor staff at Tesco having some loonie in their face telling them about mp3 / acc / flac etc when all they wanna do is ring the stuff up, put the money in the till and serve the next peep in line | Jun 28 20:47 |
| _Hicham_ | KMS getting more and more spread | Jun 28 20:47 |
| _Hicham_ | Mandriva is gonna adopt plymouth too | Jun 28 20:47 |
| _Hicham_ | there is already plymouth for ubuntu | Jun 28 20:48 |
| _Hicham_ | السيد شيسطوفيتز | Jun 28 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Nice | Jun 28 20:50 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_ is our ambassador | Jun 28 20:50 |
| ThistleWeb | arabic writing is gorgeous, but I don't understand any of it | Jun 28 20:51 |
| _Hicham_ | I just wrote : Mr Schestowitz | Jun 28 20:51 |
| ThistleWeb | of course, you could tell me anything, I can't read it to verify it lol | Jun 28 20:51 |
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| ThistleWeb | I refuse to believe it's the entire GPL | Jun 28 20:52 |
| ThistleWeb | in 2 words | Jun 28 20:52 |
| _Hicham_ | ThistleWeb : u can translate it | Jun 28 20:52 |
| ThistleWeb | _Hicham_: nope | Jun 28 20:53 |
| _Hicham_ | ThistleWeb : why? | Jun 28 20:53 |
| ThistleWeb | I probably could actually, with something like foxy.......whats the addon | Jun 28 20:53 |
| ThistleWeb | I used to install a translate addon but never found the need for it | Jun 28 20:54 |
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| _Hicham_ | ThistleWeb : http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=EN | Jun 28 20:54 |
| _Hicham_ | I just translated what I wrote | Jun 28 20:55 |
| _Hicham_ | worked almost perfectly | Jun 28 20:55 |
| ThistleWeb | ahh, thats cool | Jun 28 20:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Wine 1.1.24 - Built, installed, enjoyed! http://bit.ly/Q92Es | Jun 28 20:57 | |
| ThistleWeb | that's why I got it wrong, reversed it returns "Mr. Cistoviz" | Jun 28 20:58 |
| ThistleWeb | similar when spoken | Jun 28 20:58 |
| fewa | schestowitz, you should keep in mind that the USPTO has been a big fighter in the extention of patents, taking them to court, such as In Re Bilski | Jun 28 20:58 |
| schestowitz | tessier: Leaving CentOS team, not CentOS community < http://dag.wieers.com/blog/leaving-centos-team-not-centos-community > | Jun 28 20:59 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I could read Arabic | Jun 28 20:59 |
| schestowitz | I forgot how to now | Jun 28 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, I'll do some faily links now | Jun 28 20:59 |
| schestowitz | brb | Jun 28 20:59 |
| schestowitz | http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2009/06/27/rms-gets-it-wrong-c-and-net-suck-no-matter-whos-you-use "About two months back, when Boycott Novell started causing trouble, I started learning C# using Mono and MonoDevelop as my tools." | Jun 28 21:05 |
| schestowitz | That bastard | Jun 28 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Spreading lies about us too | Jun 28 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Saying we DDOSed ourselves | Jun 28 21:05 |
| yes, the trolls do that. blame victims for crimes trolls commit. | Jun 28 21:06 | |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | Jun 28 21:08 | |
| trmanco | rms isn't wrong | Jun 28 21:13 |
| schestowitz | It's a SUSE troll site | Jun 28 21:15 |
| schestowitz | Personal attacks, racial attacks, etc | Jun 28 21:15 |
| schestowitz | The linxxxx type | Jun 28 21:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Geek.com GNU/Linux is Beaing Microsoft on the Desktop Too http://ping.fm/hvZJJ | Jun 28 21:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Greatest Strength of GNU/Linux is the Libre Value http://ping.fm/OjgHQ http://ping.fm/c0B4J | Jun 28 21:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Munich on GNU/Linux Desktop Migration: "We'd do it again" http://ping.fm/sYBke http://ping.fm/NGZWN | Jun 28 21:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @and3k: Known unpatched vulnerabilities: IE6: 396, IE7: 15, IE8: 3, Firefox: 0. It kinda speaks for itself http://ur1.ca/6f9q | Jun 28 21:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Calls for People to Abandon Windows for More Modern GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/r1OES http://ping.fm/GweX1 | Jun 28 21:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox 3.5 2 Days Away http://ping.fm/L1Pgc | Jun 28 21:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox and Chrome Both Get Very Fast and Run on GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/rDv2C | Jun 28 21:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of Desktop Environment 4 http://ping.fm/L4umu and KOffice 2.0 http://ping.fm/WrbPy | Jun 28 21:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE Forums Undergo Major Redesign http://ping.fm/QtaEN http://ping.fm/6tKwv | Jun 28 21:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNOME Takes a Lesson from KDE4 http://ping.fm/MlRMA and Make Leap Forward http://ping.fm/wUKRo | Jun 28 21:37 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Second Update of Debian GNU/Linux (Lenny) is Out http://ping.fm/7tabz | Jun 28 21:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu and Debian Work Together to Combine Powers http://ping.fm/oF9Xy http://ping.fm/AYRdt | Jun 28 21:42 | |
| jose_X | schestowitz, reading your link above on rms being wrong about csharp.. | Jun 28 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Jun 28 21:46 |
| schestowitz | It's a troll | Jun 28 21:46 |
| jose_X | i noticed that this is the latest in a string of.. | Jun 28 21:46 |
| jose_X | comments that attack dotnet on quality of api | Jun 28 21:46 |
| jose_X | that is reverse psychology | Jun 28 21:46 |
| jose_X | people start to look.. further, they realize "it's not that bad" | Jun 28 21:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] CentOS at LinuxTag http://ping.fm/vx0vr , Other Viable Distributions of GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/2aLJ0 | Jun 28 21:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] PCinuxOS Does a Fantastic Job, As Always http://ping.fm/oG6fn http://ping.fm/yHlWx | Jun 28 21:47 | |
| jose_X | meanwhile the troll gains some level of legitimacy as being anti-dotnet.. | Jun 28 21:47 |
| jose_X | but while downplaying the patent threats and MS's evilness and subterfuge. | Jun 28 21:47 |
| jose_X | this is just a hunch i have now, but it had been building. | Jun 28 21:48 |
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| jose_X | Microsoft will keep trying every single strategy they can to manipulate people until they find something where people finally accept them or their tech and ways (and threats) | Jun 28 21:48 |
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| schestowitz | Indeed | Jun 28 21:49 |
| jose_X | if i'm wrong i'm wrong of course. | Jun 28 21:49 |
| schestowitz | It's important to watch and inform IMHO | Jun 28 21:49 |
| schestowitz | The whole EEE of FOSS is spooky | Jun 28 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Some people keep sleeping | Jun 28 21:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Slackware Eternally Keeps a Place in People's Hearts and Computers http://ping.fm/u5N5i | Jun 28 21:52 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Manipal Puts Fedora GNU/Linux on Deck http://ping.fm/jigPJ | Jun 28 21:52 | |
| *Balrog (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-74-211.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 21:54 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fedora's Project Leader Upbeat on LinuxTag http://ping.fm/T32fj and FUDCon http://ping.fm/iQp3V | Jun 28 21:57 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fedora claims about half a million downloads per month. http://ping.fm/f9LlJ | Jun 28 21:57 | |
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| jose_X | btw, schestowitz, i got the urge to bring that "watch out" above.. a comment by itself can mean anything. everyone has opinions | Jun 28 22:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The End of Reboots in Ubuntu (or GNU/Linux in General) Possibly Near http://ping.fm/gap3e | Jun 28 22:02 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Response to Manan: http://bit.ly/C423g #microsoft #windows #7 | Jun 28 22:02 | |
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| schestowitz | jose_X: which comment? | Jun 28 22:02 |
| jose_X | so i am not pointing fingers or singling anything out. | Jun 28 22:02 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: they accused BN of DDOSing ITSELF | Jun 28 22:02 |
| jose_X | nevermind... nothing important.. | Jun 28 22:02 |
| schestowitz | It's a linuxxxxx-type site | Jun 28 22:03 |
| jose_X | yeah, that's a hunch that person has apparently | Jun 28 22:03 |
| _Goblin | Jose X...where do I remember that handle from? | Jun 28 22:03 |
| schestowitz | Revulsion follows | Jun 28 22:03 |
| jose_X | i'm not attacking the comment, but i'm not defending it. | Jun 28 22:03 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: linuxtoday | Jun 28 22:03 |
| jose_X | _Goblin.. don't know but i have been using it for a while.. yes, LT is where I post mostly. | Jun 28 22:03 |
| _Goblin | mmm no I dont think it was there....possibly the comments section of BN.... | Jun 28 22:04 |
| schestowitz | The Novell folks already map folks by real names | Jun 28 22:04 |
| jose_X | Bn as well | Jun 28 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Profiling their threats to Mono | Jun 28 22:04 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: how's your Linux project coming along? | Jun 28 22:04 |
| jose_X | "study the enemy" | Jun 28 22:04 |
| jose_X | ? | Jun 28 22:05 |
| _Goblin | You working on a Linux project? | Jun 28 22:05 |
| _Goblin | would you like to help me? | Jun 28 22:05 |
| _Goblin | so am I. | Jun 28 22:05 |
| schestowitz | A Microsoft intern called me a "dick" today | Jun 28 22:05 |
| thenixedreport | lol | Jun 28 22:05 |
| schestowitz | He attacked Stallman and others (especially me) calling us "trolls" | Jun 28 22:05 |
| thenixedreport | What was his e-mail address? | Jun 28 22:05 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: bet you feel touched | Jun 28 22:05 |
| jose_X | a tom and harry | Jun 28 22:05 |
| _Goblin | I've been called a plethora of homophobic names by the MS faithful today as well. | Jun 28 22:06 |
| schestowitz | If MS folks don't like us it means we do well for Linux | Jun 28 22:06 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jun 28 22:06 |
| _Goblin | oh yes Ive had the troll comment (and jobless too) | Jun 28 22:06 |
| _Goblin | I bet Ive been called more names than you Roy....;) | Jun 28 22:06 |
| thenixedreport | Had someone from MS also try to defend Windows Vista. | Jun 28 22:06 |
| thenixedreport | lol | Jun 28 22:06 |
| _Goblin | Brave person. | Jun 28 22:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Preparations and Wallpapers for Ubuntu GNU/Linux 9.10 http://ping.fm/Zjfqm http://ping.fm/G2YhE http://ping.fm/Y8074 | Jun 28 22:07 | |
| thenixedreport | IP traced back to Microsoft headquarters. | Jun 28 22:07 |
| thenixedreport | lol | Jun 28 22:07 |
| _Goblin | So Jose_X: what Linux project are you working on? | Jun 28 22:07 |
| jose_X | ? | Jun 28 22:07 |
| schestowitz | thenixedreport: no, disclosure | Jun 28 22:08 |
| _Goblin | "?" whats that? a terminal command? | Jun 28 22:08 |
| thenixedreport | :( | Jun 28 22:08 |
| thenixedreport | Oh well. | Jun 28 22:08 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jun 28 22:08 |
| jose_X | It means I don't know what you Roy meant | Jun 28 22:08 |
| jose_X | what schestowitz meant | Jun 28 22:08 |
| _Goblin | ah, so youre not... | Jun 28 22:08 |
| thenixedreport | And why in the world is Ubuntu dropping the server kernel? | Jun 28 22:08 |
| _Goblin | Jose_X: would you like to then? | Jun 28 22:08 |
| thenixedreport | What about 32-bit systems with 4 GB of RAM? | Jun 28 22:09 |
| jose_X | I've mentioned some projects to schestowitz.. distro related... if that is what you [roy] meant, then no I have not spent time with that for a while | Jun 28 22:09 |
| _Goblin | ah I see. | Jun 28 22:09 |
| _Goblin | ./? -needhelp -withproject | Jun 28 22:10 |
| jose_X | speak _Goblin | Jun 28 22:10 |
| jose_X | it's free to speak | Jun 28 22:10 |
| _Goblin | You want to help? | Jun 28 22:11 |
| jose_X | anyone might be interested in helping out | Jun 28 22:11 |
| jose_X | help what? | Jun 28 22:11 |
| schestowitz | jose_X builds UltimateLinux | Jun 28 22:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu Listens to Community http://ping.fm/HYbuB , New Magazine Released http://ping.fm/b7gBx [via @jonobacon ] | Jun 28 22:12 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Kubuntu Success Stories on Notebooks http://ping.fm/SPvZK http://ping.fm/xroTJ | Jun 28 22:12 | |
| _Goblin | ah. | Jun 28 22:12 |
| jose_X | ?? | Jun 28 22:12 |
| jose_X | Something like UltimateLinux might be trademarked or otherwise used already i'd think | Jun 28 22:12 |
| _Goblin | I'm compiling a distro with native support for multiple processors (ie Motorola 68k) using UAE code I intend (or am trying) to create a seamless integration between WB1.3 and Linux (amongst other platforms) | Jun 28 22:13 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: there's Ultimate Edition | Jun 28 22:13 |
| schestowitz | formerly UUE | Jun 28 22:13 |
| schestowitz | They dropped the "Ubuntu" part | Jun 28 22:13 |
| *iKonaK has quit ("Leaving.") | Jun 28 22:14 | |
| _Goblin | of course this long term hobby/project is mono free and will be BN approved... | Jun 28 22:14 |
| jose_X | Let me look up uae and bw1.3 | Jun 28 22:14 |
| _Goblin | I was inspired by the AROS project. | Jun 28 22:14 |
| jose_X | amiga? | Jun 28 22:14 |
| _Goblin | yeah! | Jun 28 22:14 |
| _Goblin | brb smoke break. | Jun 28 22:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Phones Proving to be a Challenge to iPhone (Marketing) http://ping.fm/ukx3e | Jun 28 22:17 | |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: what\? You're booting into Windows (tobacco)? So soon? | Jun 28 22:19 |
| thenixedreport | Equating Windows with smoking... | Jun 28 22:20 |
| thenixedreport | That's hilarious. | Jun 28 22:20 |
| _Goblin | lol.. | Jun 28 22:21 |
| _Goblin | yeah...my one vice... | Jun 28 22:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Where the OLPC Project Stands: Still GNU/Linux, Still Sugar http://ping.fm/Xw50O http://ping.fm/ijy8H | Jun 28 22:22 | |
| trmanco | http://www.reddit.com/r/web_design/comments/8wdmi/what_ideeditor_do_you_use_for_web/ | Jun 28 22:23 |
| _Goblin | fortunately I dont have to line Ballmers pockets to do it. | Jun 28 22:25 |
| schestowitz | thenixedreport: not my idea | Jun 28 22:25 |
| schestowitz | It's Gates' idea | Jun 28 22:25 |
| schestowitz | “They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.” Bill Gates | Jun 28 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Spoken like a true tobacco tycoon. | Jun 28 22:26 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin wrote about this too, so he knows | Jun 28 22:26 |
| _Goblin | sure do. :) | Jun 28 22:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patent Trolls Problem Further Exacerbated http://ping.fm/Tm3nw http://ping.fm/zOQkw http://ping.fm/BinG2 | Jun 28 22:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Just finished reading The Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown. Damn, that was one amazing read! | Jun 28 22:37 | |
| _Goblin | Roy, maybe we should have a competition one day to see who can get the most insults from the MS faithful...I've counted over 30 different insults today alone...I must be doing something right. | Jun 28 22:37 |
| schestowitz | No thanks | Jun 28 22:37 |
| _Goblin | ;) | Jun 28 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Provocation leads to erosion of credibility | Jun 28 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Realty is sometimes perceived as provocation too | Jun 28 22:38 |
| _Goblin | yes but since I dont provoke, merely challenge...the insult comes when they cant argue, thats what makes it a compliment. | Jun 28 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Like, if you say something that you're not allowed to say because some people might be insuled | Jun 28 22:38 |
| schestowitz | *ted | Jun 28 22:38 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: I don't track responses much | Jun 28 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Even less after the DDOS attack cause I don't have a referer [sic] tracker | Jun 28 22:39 |
| _Goblin | the more insults you recieve the better the argument you have put forward...thats why I never use vulgarity or personal remarks...I let the evidence speak for itself. | Jun 28 22:39 |
| _Goblin | I love the "jobless" insult....since I only get that compliment when Ive made a very comprehensive reply. | Jun 28 22:39 |
| _Goblin | contrary to what many believe I think the insults further the FOSS cause. If users who are unsure about alternatives see one side of the argument merely insulting then IMO it shows which is the stronger case. | Jun 28 22:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Signs of USPTO's Sheer Lunacy http://ping.fm/53jbJ | Jun 28 22:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patents More Likely to be Abolished? http://ping.fm/GGkpX | Jun 28 22:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Report from OpenSUSE Day in Chile http://ping.fm/48rcL | Jun 28 22:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Shills (with Laptop Bribes) Might be Nymshifting http://ping.fm/M3jyx | Jun 28 22:47 | |
| schestowitz | I'm writing about Costa in SUENET | Jun 28 22:50 |
| schestowitz | *USENET | Jun 28 22:50 |
| _Goblin | lol | Jun 28 22:50 |
| _Goblin | poor old Andre Da Toxic.... | Jun 28 22:51 |
| _Goblin | I feel sorry for him, maybe we could all club together and buy him a computer so that he doesnt have to sell his dignity? | Jun 28 22:51 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More on "the Great Bing Scam" http://ping.fm/fekvQ | Jun 28 22:52 | |
| schestowitz | He strategises | Jun 28 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Already begging Apple for food | Jun 28 23:05 |
| schestowitz | He know MS is falling | Jun 28 23:05 |
| schestowitz | So not many bribes coming to him any time soon. | Jun 28 23:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista and Vista 7 so Bad That XP Lives for a Decade http://ping.fm/Ga0MX | Jun 28 23:07 | |
| Thanks for the Munich update. Submitted http://slashdot.org/submission/1028869/Munich-Transition-to-Linux-Doing-Well | Jun 28 23:07 | |
| anyone know how Vienna is doing with Vista? | Jun 28 23:08 | |
| ha ha ha | Jun 28 23:08 | |
| wow, done for the sake of a "sly mouse" http://www.folly.co.uk/node/1131 | Jun 28 23:11 | |
| ah, someone already did this story, http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/06/28/0344234 | Jun 28 23:12 | |
| Wow, just look at that troll comment pyramid. The article comments have been completely crap flooded. | Jun 28 23:15 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Uses Outlook to Break Interoperability, Snubs Protesters http://ping.fm/oafE0 | Jun 28 23:17 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft attacks Munich | Jun 28 23:18 |
| schestowitz | It's a role model | Jun 28 23:18 |
| schestowitz | They need to slime, slime, slime it | Jun 28 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Then Gartner and Silver come along and wave the smears | Jun 28 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Classic gang culture at MS | Jun 28 23:19 |
| but they are smelling like a rose in the wake of the Vista failure | Jun 28 23:19 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I've just used Bing for the first time ever. It sucks. It's "Not Google", just like it says on the tun. | Jun 28 23:27 | |
| *tin? | Jun 28 23:29 | |
| trmanco | http://googlyfoogly.com/pictures/Microsoft-Headquarters.html | Jun 28 23:29 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Jun 28 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Isn't Captian Fester on dooooty? | Jun 28 23:30 |
| Basically the Munich smear goes along the lines I predicted in my submission. Even the article misses a lot of important details. | Jun 28 23:30 | |
| GNU/Linux was only more expensive for Munich because Steve Ballmer offered the city a 90% discount on all of the software. | Jun 28 23:31 | |
| Had the city been dumb enough to move from NT4 to XP, they would now be looking at another, far more expensive migration to Vista or Vista 7. | Jun 28 23:31 | |
| The trolls point out the difference in cost as if the same were true for everyone, not just a one time deal offered by M$'s number 2. | Jun 28 23:32 | |
| They point out minor set backs in moving data from M$'s roach motel as "fiasco" | Jun 28 23:33 | |
| Hmph. | Jun 28 23:33 | |
| Vienna moved to Vista last year. I'd love to hear how they are doing. | Jun 28 23:34 | |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@86.108.17.137.go.com.jo) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 23:35 | |
| ThistleWeb | twitter: wait till they boot up and you can ask them | Jun 28 23:35 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 23:38 | |
| Informative comment here http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/vienna_failed_to_migrate_to_linux_why | Jun 28 23:40 | |
| -> Vienna never created it's own distribution. They intended to do so, but in the end they rolled out basically unmodified Debian to 1000 of their 32000 workstations. 750 of those workstations are now reversed to Debian/XP (NOT Vista) Dual boot. | Jun 28 23:41 | |
| oiaohm | How is that a failure. | Jun 28 23:42 |
| oiaohm | All conversions have issues. | Jun 28 23:42 |
| hmmm, they lose it later..... | Jun 28 23:43 | |
| oiaohm | Notice they droped back to duel boot. | Jun 28 23:43 |
| oiaohm | If there was no advantage to Linux they would have droped back to pure XP. | Jun 28 23:44 |
| oiaohm | I know this from conversions from XP to Vista. | Jun 28 23:44 |
| ThistleWeb | I wonder if anyone told them of virtualised PCs so they could have an XP image for the odd app they needed | Jun 28 23:44 |
| ThistleWeb | or if they did, tried it and it didn't work | Jun 28 23:45 |
| ThistleWeb | for their needs | Jun 28 23:45 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.80.195.62) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 28 23:45 | |
| oiaohm | Lot of Old cpus don't support the instructions to virtualise at good speed. | Jun 28 23:45 |
| ThistleWeb | I bet they had lots of fun installing Windows AFTER a non-Windows OS on the same PC dual booting | Jun 28 23:46 |
| oiaohm | Droping to dual boot could be a interm measure until upgrading machines. | Jun 28 23:46 |
| ThistleWeb | with Microsoft only recognising other Windows in it's MBR | Jun 28 23:46 |
| ThistleWeb | blitzing it if it's non-Windows | Jun 28 23:46 |
| oiaohm | That is not hard to fix. | Jun 28 23:46 |
| ThistleWeb | nah, Linux is still there, the MBR just needs manual changes to add it back to the list that Windows should never have removed | Jun 28 23:47 |
| ThistleWeb | that's why I put XP on first, then Linux......it's just easier | Jun 28 23:48 |
| ThistleWeb | that way I have a grub menu too ;) | Jun 28 23:48 |
| oiaohm | Miner altered windows adds grub to windows bootloader. | Jun 28 23:48 |
| oiaohm | It all depends if you are using normal install disks or not how much trouble it is. | Jun 28 23:49 |
| ThistleWeb | dunno if this is true, but apparently if you're dual booting with different versions of Windows, you need to put the oldest one on first | Jun 28 23:49 |
| oiaohm | Its true. | Jun 28 23:49 |
| oiaohm | If you don't you risk lots of nasty permission errors and other problems. | Jun 28 23:50 |
| oiaohm | Newer versions of windows need to detect older ones on install so they don't use features that will stuff the older ones up. | Jun 28 23:50 |
| ThistleWeb | I learned that on my MCP years ago but that was before I realised the MCP was basicly a M$ indoctrination cert where the non-Microsoft wolrd barely gets a mention and all sorts of dodgy advice is handed down as "best practice" | Jun 28 23:51 |
| _Goblin | Microsoft to charge Europeans double for Windows 7: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9134914 | Jun 28 23:51 |
| tacone | wow | Jun 28 23:52 |
| tacone | nice push for linux :) | Jun 28 23:52 |
| ThistleWeb | tacone: except many will just cough up | Jun 28 23:53 |
| tacone | let them cough | Jun 28 23:53 |
| oiaohm | ThistleWeb: the install order thing does not apply if you are only using fat filesystems. Its NTFS linked. | Jun 28 23:53 |
| ThistleWeb | every time the govt increase the price of ciggies via tax, the assumption is that at some point peeps will say "enough", but most just continue to smoke after the price increase | Jun 28 23:54 |
| ThistleWeb | oiaohm: ahh, they never explained that, just that it was what to do | Jun 28 23:54 |
| Here's a word problem, a 90% discount made XP cost 2 million euros less than GNU/linux for Munich .... how much will Vista 7 cost people foolish enough to buy it. | Jun 28 23:54 | |
| ha ha | Jun 28 23:55 | |
| ThistleWeb | some will stop, but most will continue to find the money, even if they need to cut back elsewhere | Jun 28 23:55 |
| tacone | everyone's happy | Jun 28 23:55 |
| M$ death watch is updated. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707 | Jun 28 23:55 | |
| tacone | ms recovers the anti-trust bill | Jun 28 23:55 |
| tacone | linux gets a push | Jun 28 23:55 |
| tacone | eu anti-trust has new excuses for a new bill | Jun 28 23:55 |
| _Goblin | Im not sure....couple that price increase with the need (in some cases) to upgrade hardware and a platform which still cant say what advantages it has over XP (IMO) doesn't look so appealing. | Jun 28 23:56 |
| It looks great to me. No one will buy it. | Jun 28 23:56 | |
| ThistleWeb | thing with windows / office licenece fees, is that many small businesses can be in the situation of "do we renew Microsoft licences and get no real benefits to our business and lay off some peeps, or do we switch to a free FOSS solution and keep use the money we would have paid to Microsoft to keep those people employed" | Jun 28 23:56 |
| oiaohm | 90 percent discount will not work with germans they take a long term look at the world. | Jun 28 23:57 |
| _Goblin | My question of: What does 7 offer that cannot be achieved either natively or via 3rd party software in XP. Still hasnt been answered, even by identified MS employees who have posted on my blog... | Jun 28 23:57 |
| oiaohm | Secuirty framework support _Goblin | Jun 28 23:57 |
| oiaohm | Basically not much. | Jun 28 23:57 |
| _Goblin | I expect in Europe, the Bit-torrent trackers will be bogged down due to the news of the Vista 7 price.. | Jun 28 23:58 |
| _Goblin | yep oiaohm. Which means "Sorry we cant do anything about security in any other version of Windows, but nevermind, dig deep and spend some more money" | Jun 28 23:58 |
| Why? Do you expect anyone really wants Vista 7? | Jun 28 23:59 | |
| _Goblin | If they can get it for free, then probably....even Vista was torrented to death! | Jun 28 23:59 |
| ThistleWeb | you do have to wonder at the self-awarded label of "best in class" when it needs several 3rd party antii-malware software to just keep it from being hosed when it connects to the internet | Jun 28 23:59 |
| _Goblin | a point maybe the shareholders of MS stock might want to consider. | Jun 28 23:59 |
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