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| _Hicham_ | I am trying to submit some packages to fedora | Jul 03 01:29 |
|---|---|---|
| _Hicham_ | where r u schestowitz? | Jul 03 01:29 |
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| twitter1 | hi ho | Jul 03 01:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Installed Fedora 10 today on my 7 years old Dell Optiplex GX240. I Love it! Yum is a very easy to use RPM frontend. | Jul 03 01:38 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Will install Fedora 12 of my Acer Aspire 7220 laptop. Still using Ubuntu 9.04 on it. After the official MONO statement of Ubuntu.... | Jul 03 01:38 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] I will jump the Ubuntu ship :-p | Jul 03 01:38 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Minister praises high standard of science journalism http://is.gd/1lW15 | Jul 03 01:43 | |
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| Lns | So, I'll ask the obvious | Jul 03 05:28 |
| Lns | Why boycott Novell? | Jul 03 05:28 |
| fewa | How can people stand their computers being a warground: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13880_3-10277784-68.html | Jul 03 05:34 |
| Lns | they don't know any better? They think it's their fault? | Jul 03 05:35 |
| fewa | yeah thats it | Jul 03 05:35 |
| fewa | but they do notice | Jul 03 05:35 |
| Lns | sure | Jul 03 05:35 |
| Lns | but until something totally breaks they don't mind | Jul 03 05:35 |
| fewa | they notice when their computer gets slow, when MSFT forces them to do things | Jul 03 05:35 |
| fewa | and they dont like it | Jul 03 05:35 |
| Lns | they bought their computer and it works for them..kind of | Jul 03 05:35 |
| Lns | it's like your car, limping along, you know it needs lots of work but you might not have the money for it | Jul 03 05:36 |
| fewa | And then those that make money fixing the mess would rather the computers stay a warground | Jul 03 05:37 |
| Lns | right, the ones that just care about money would | Jul 03 05:38 |
| fewa | In this case im rooting for a GM-like ending, where the company that neglects to make its product better goes out of business | Jul 03 05:38 |
| fewa | but we should skip the bailout part | Jul 03 05:38 |
| Lns | hahaha..yeah, i can imagine a m$ bailout | Jul 03 05:39 |
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| fewa | and we still dont know if the GM profits in china will be counted in the bankruptcy | Jul 03 05:49 |
| Lns | screw money | Jul 03 05:52 |
| Lns | we don't need it | Jul 03 05:52 |
| tinhatnoid | MS would get on the "businesses that cannot be allowed to fail list" im sure. if it got down to it | Jul 03 06:01 |
| fewa | Its called WGA | Jul 03 06:03 |
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| twitter1 | an interesting use of OpenStreetMap http://packages.debian.org/lenny/gpsdrive | Jul 03 06:45 |
| tessier | I can easily imagine someone making the case that "MS is too big to be allowed to fail" since 99% of the world's computers depend on them. | Jul 03 06:49 |
| fewa | Propritary software... | Jul 03 07:02 |
| fewa | also nowhere near 99% | Jul 03 07:03 |
| fewa | maybe like 30% | Jul 03 07:03 |
| fewa | 5% or less if you count the endless amounts of consumer electronics and small devices | Jul 03 07:04 |
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| twitter1 | Answer them with the truism, "A company that is 'too big to fail' is too big to exist and must be broken up." | Jul 03 07:07 |
| twitter1 | M$ is failing on it's own. No amount of money will save their broken and unethical business model. | Jul 03 07:08 |
| twitter1 | Software is too important to nationalize. Do you really want the government owning your access to news, entertainment, medical records, baby pictures, and so on and so forth? | Jul 03 07:09 |
| twitter1 | More OpenStreetMaps software, http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/josm-plugins | Jul 03 07:17 |
| twitter1 | see there? there are FF plugin collections maintained in Debian. | Jul 03 07:18 |
| tinhatnoid | the government allready does all those things and has that access to you, and more ! | Jul 03 07:21 |
| tessier | twitter1: I agree about such a big company needing to be broken up. | Jul 03 07:22 |
| tinhatnoid | there are lots of good reasons to split up a company, but size alone is not really one of them. | Jul 03 07:25 |
| twitter1 | ***twitter ignores tinhatnoid, a troll with an offensive name. | Jul 03 07:34 |
| twitter1 | the reasons to split up an abusive monopoly like M$ were laid out well in the US anti-trust verdict, and there are many precedents in US law. | Jul 03 07:35 |
| tinhatnoid | Do you mean Judge Jackson's overturned verdict ? of the settled US antitrust case. ? (if you could see this that is) :D | Jul 03 07:49 |
| fewa | no reason smart people cant maintain useful institutions | Jul 03 07:51 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Last night I ditched Ubuntu/Gnome in favor of Fedora/KDE4 - NOMONO, I only play Stereo! http://tinyurl.com/lj8x2c | Jul 03 07:53 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] RT: @CaliLewis: Day 1 of the 12 Days of Twitter - The Secret Code: What are all those initials and symbols? - http://bit.ly/10wh8E | Jul 03 08:08 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] Turn Your Old Laptop into a Powerful Linux Workhorse http://tinyurl.com/ldgz82 | Jul 03 08:13 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] Prevent Software Containing Mono Getting Installed in Ubuntu http://tinyurl.com/m5dx6g | Jul 03 08:13 | |
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| twitter1 | Washington Post influence party goes bust, http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-washington-post3-2009jul03,0,6537672.story | Jul 03 08:25 |
| twitter1 | The best government a newspaper can buy. | Jul 03 08:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Software Patents tranforming Wed Standards discussions about video into a mess: http://bit.ly/11YXXP | Jul 03 08:28 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Software = productivity; Software patents = loss of productivity; We should invoince the USPTO and EPO for patents around video codecs | Jul 03 08:28 | |
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| harrytuttle | hello | Jul 03 08:49 |
| MinceR | tinhatnoid: does that somehow invalidate all the arguments in it? | Jul 03 08:53 |
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| tinhatnoid | no it does not, nor does it validate them. | Jul 03 09:02 |
| MinceR_ | it is, however, a set of arguments that were referenced above. :> | Jul 03 09:06 |
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| twitter1 | There are now 12.5 million more people seeking work than there were nine years ago, but fewer jobs for them in the US. http://www.miamiherald.com/business/nation/story/1125468.html | Jul 03 09:12 |
| twitter1 | The first recession since the great depression to have wiped out all of the jobs in a previous business cycle. | Jul 03 09:13 |
| twitter1 | Seven more US banks fail http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=acr01Xb3Fkz0 | Jul 03 09:13 |
| twitter1 | six of those banks were owned by one family, so it was really only two more banks failing | Jul 03 09:14 |
| tinhatnoid | I think the difference will be lost on those working for those banks, or investing in them. Economic downturn is bad for everyone, (mostly) | Jul 03 09:35 |
| harrytuttle | anyone here who knows how to compile and maintain a dist like ubuntu? | Jul 03 09:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] The Bilski test was invented by IBM: http://bit.ly/86ruo | Jul 03 10:03 | |
| fewa | zoobab01, Bilski was good | Jul 03 10:11 |
| fewa | but still open to abusive BS | Jul 03 10:12 |
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| tinhatnoid | "Judge Dyk, joined by Judge Linn, concurred in the majority opinion upholding the PTO’s rejection of Bilski’s patent, but concurred also in Judge Mayer’s historical analysis that the framers of the Constitution intended to exclude from the operation of the US patent system “methods for organizing human activity that do not involve manufactures, machines, or compositions of matter.” Since Bilski’s method fai | Jul 03 10:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @glynmoody Police told to use Wikipedia for court preparation http://bit.ly/8EgH0 WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG | Jul 03 10:43 | |
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| fewa | http://notnews.today.com/2009/07/01/microsoft-extends-xp-downgrade-option-to-2101/ Microsoft extends XP downgrade option to 2101 | Jul 03 10:49 |
| tinhatnoid | wow, about 90 years !!! | Jul 03 10:50 |
| fewa | "Reviving Windows administrators from cryogenic freezing has proven insufficient to fill the market gap, as almost all begged to work on COBOL instead." | Jul 03 10:50 |
| tinhatnoid | they could probably have the downgrade forever, does not mean anyone will actually take it up. | Jul 03 10:51 |
| fewa | But why would people want to use it over XP? | Jul 03 10:53 |
| fewa | Vista 7 | Jul 03 10:54 |
| tinhatnoid | XP over Vista or Win 7, thats simple they would use it over XP because they are better. | Jul 03 11:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Firefox 3.5 at the top: http://is.gd/1mg4b !firefox #firefox #fx35 | Jul 03 11:13 | |
| MinceR | fewa: because vista7 sucks about as much as vista | Jul 03 11:30 |
| fewa | thats what i was trying to say | Jul 03 11:30 |
| fewa | nobody will actively choose to use anything but XP | Jul 03 11:31 |
| fewa | Microsoft forcing $NEXT_VERSION on users is tying and anti-competitive | Jul 03 11:32 |
| tinhatnoid | they cant be allowing downgrade to XP and forcing users onto the next version at the same time !! :) | Jul 03 11:33 |
| tinhatnoid | It's either one or the other | Jul 03 11:33 |
| fewa | tinhatnoid, they force OEMS to install Vista | Jul 03 11:33 |
| MinceR | they still force them to buy vista | Jul 03 11:33 |
| MinceR | and pay for it, and they count it a successfully sold copy of vista | Jul 03 11:33 |
| tinhatnoid | Or not should they choose not too, thats what the XP extension is all about | Jul 03 11:34 |
| fewa | which is illegal | Jul 03 11:34 |
| fewa | its called tying http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_%28commerce%29 | Jul 03 11:34 |
| tinhatnoid | what is MS tying ?? | Jul 03 11:35 |
| MinceR | offering no options beside windows is tying by itself, isn't it? | Jul 03 11:35 |
| fewa | MinceR, that too | Jul 03 11:35 |
| fewa | this was touched on by US v Microsoft | Jul 03 11:36 |
| tinhatnoid | Did you read that tying definition ? | Jul 03 11:36 |
| MinceR | did you, tinhatnoid? | Jul 03 11:36 |
| fewa | "being forced to buy an undesired good (the tied good) in order to purchase a good they actually want (the tying good)" | Jul 03 11:36 |
| trmanco | http://www.linuxnewstoday.org/linux-news-jul-2009-archives/1180-jul-02-2009-linux-news.shtml | Jul 03 11:36 |
| fewa | People dont want Vista, this fits perfectly into the definition | Jul 03 11:36 |
| tinhatnoid | yes, ofcourse, especially the first line. thats why I asked. | Jul 03 11:37 |
| fewa | tinhatnoid, no you didnt | Jul 03 11:37 |
| tinhatnoid | "Tying is the practice of making the sale of one good (the tying good) to the de facto or de jure customer conditional on the purchase of a second distinctive good (the tied good). " | Jul 03 11:37 |
| tinhatnoid | So what is the second good that is tyed ? | Jul 03 11:37 |
| fewa | tinhatnoid, you asked that question as rhetoric, as a means to try to undermine my credibility | Jul 03 11:37 |
| tinhatnoid | Well i asked it, because it seems you dont understand the law, thats why I asked. | Jul 03 11:38 |
| fewa | tinhatnoid, are you a lawyer? | Jul 03 11:38 |
| tinhatnoid | And ill ask again, what is the second product MS is making your purchase ? | Jul 03 11:38 |
| fewa | tinhatnoid, are you a lawyer? | Jul 03 11:38 |
| tinhatnoid | No but I can read | Jul 03 11:38 |
| MinceR | tinhatnoid: the undesired good is vista, which is tied to the good they actually want, which is a computer | Jul 03 11:39 |
| tinhatnoid | MS dont selll computers | Jul 03 11:39 |
| MinceR | they merely force oems into this situation | Jul 03 11:39 |
| MinceR | successfully | Jul 03 11:39 |
| fewa | MS is breaking the United States vs Microsoft case | Jul 03 11:39 |
| tinhatnoid | read the definition, and then tell me what the second good MS is tieing to their first good ? | Jul 03 11:39 |
| MinceR | break out of that infinite loop, tinhatnoid | Jul 03 11:40 |
| fewa | by running fees not dissimilar to the per-processor fees, and by punishing anyone that refuses to accept such anti-competitive deals. | Jul 03 11:40 |
| tinhatnoid | IT's just when i hear people say things, I like to confirm what they are saying is true, if im not sure I hope the person making the statement will clear it up. | Jul 03 11:41 |
| tinhatnoid | What product again ?? sorry I missed that | Jul 03 11:41 |
| tinhatnoid | I gather Fewa that you are one of those that refuses to accept anti-competitive deals, so what punishment have you received from MS ? | Jul 03 11:42 |
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| MinceR | tinhatnoid: do you think he's an OEM? | Jul 03 11:45 |
| tinhatnoid | im pretty sure fewa said "anyone", | Jul 03 11:45 |
| tinhatnoid | yep he did | Jul 03 11:46 |
| MinceR | perhaps you should study the language more. | Jul 03 11:46 |
| tinhatnoid | I can read, im sure you can see he said "anyone" as well ? | Jul 03 11:46 |
| MinceR | i'm not sure if you understood the sentence. | Jul 03 11:46 |
| fewa | tinhatnoid, if you cant understand such plain english you certainly cant understand anti-competition law | Jul 03 11:47 |
| fewa | *anti-trust law | Jul 03 11:47 |
| tinhatnoid | "by running fees not dissimilar to the per-processor fees, and by punishing anyone that refuses to accept such anti-competitive deals." | Jul 03 11:47 |
| MinceR | copy/paste works | Jul 03 11:48 |
| tinhatnoid | thats what you said, what is there not to understand ? | Jul 03 11:48 |
| MinceR | let's see the "understand" part now | Jul 03 11:48 |
| tinhatnoid | you do know red hat charge for their sevice on a "per-processor" basis as well. | Jul 03 11:50 |
| fewa | tinhatnoid, that is processors that run Red Hat Enterprise Linux | Jul 03 11:50 |
| tinhatnoid | and where is charging on a per-processor basis anit-trust ? | Jul 03 11:51 |
| MinceR | which has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. | Jul 03 11:51 |
| fewa | What Microsoft demands is a price for every processor that the OEM ships | Jul 03 11:51 |
| tinhatnoid | Thats right RHEL exactly | Jul 03 11:51 |
| fewa | irregardless of weather it runs Microsoft software | Jul 03 11:51 |
| fewa | that is a tax | Jul 03 11:51 |
| tinhatnoid | I know it hasent, thats why I did not bring up the per-processor issue. | Jul 03 11:51 |
| oiaohm | RHEL charages on a active copy base. | Jul 03 11:52 |
| oiaohm | So you can transfer licences from one machine to another without needing to buy new copies. | Jul 03 11:53 |
| oiaohm | RHEL even allows a offline backup machines. | Jul 03 11:53 |
| tinhatnoid | thats right its a per processor contract. | Jul 03 11:54 |
| oiaohm | Installed with the same licences as the active. | Jul 03 11:54 |
| oiaohm | They do place some locks but is not you have to by more just because you update hardware. | Jul 03 11:54 |
| oiaohm | RHEL is independant to hardware really. | Jul 03 11:55 |
| tinhatnoid | as is MS really | Jul 03 11:55 |
| oiaohm | No its not. | Jul 03 11:55 |
| oiaohm | MS licences lot of them hardware bind. | Jul 03 11:56 |
| tinhatnoid | well ive changed PC's, motherboards, everything, and still used the same OS. | Jul 03 11:56 |
| oiaohm | Read closer. | Jul 03 11:56 |
| oiaohm | MS the machine by licence has to be dead to transfer. | Jul 03 11:56 |
| oiaohm | Other than volume licences. | Jul 03 11:56 |
| tinhatnoid | I dont have too, ive done it over and over I know its not h/w dependant, and thats really all there is too it, say what you will. | Jul 03 11:57 |
| oiaohm | Read the licence conditions. | Jul 03 11:57 |
| tinhatnoid | You can tell me it cant be dont, but its dont all the time, ive dont it myself routinely and often. | Jul 03 11:57 |
| oiaohm | Just because you have done it over and over does not meen what you are doing is following the condiction. | Jul 03 11:57 |
| tinhatnoid | Saying otherwise is just not correct,, sorry. | Jul 03 11:58 |
| oiaohm | It is not incorrect. OEM copies licences are hardware binding licences. | Jul 03 11:58 |
| oiaohm | From MS. | Jul 03 11:58 |
| oiaohm | You have not read the licence if I was on a windows machine I would be quoting you the sections out the EULA. | Jul 03 11:59 |
| tinhatnoid | Well so you keep saying, im telling you thats not anyones real life experiences. | Jul 03 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Just because you can do something does not make what you are doing is legal tinhatnoid | Jul 03 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Or following the licence conditions. | Jul 03 12:00 |
| tinhatnoid | its legal because I enable my OS to MS every time, on the net its trivial and takes zero effort. | Jul 03 12:01 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Jul 03 12:01 |
| oiaohm | I am really dealing with a novice here. | Jul 03 12:01 |
| tinhatnoid | sure ok, LOL | Jul 03 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Windows activation does not really inforce the licence conditions to the letter. | Jul 03 12:02 |
| tinhatnoid | and we should believe you know better because of your years of MS experience ? | Jul 03 12:02 |
| tinhatnoid | ok whatever,, you win :) | Jul 03 12:02 |
| oiaohm | I have see businesses on the end of a audit. | Jul 03 12:02 |
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| oiaohm | For illegal software tinhatnoid | Jul 03 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Stunts like what you are describing have landed them huge fines. | Jul 03 12:03 |
| oiaohm | That is when you find out what true licence inforcement is. | Jul 03 12:03 |
| tinhatnoid | Yes, so have i, and ive happily logged into MS and registers my S/W with them, its all totally legal and I would happily be audited. | Jul 03 12:03 |
| tinhatnoid | IF you abide by the law you have nothing to worry about. | Jul 03 12:04 |
| oiaohm | Dell OEM licence software found on white boxs. | Jul 03 12:04 |
| oiaohm | Was one case were every one of the white boxs were classed as pirate copies. | Jul 03 12:04 |
| oiaohm | Even that the license stickers and everything was accounted for. | Jul 03 12:05 |
| tinhatnoid | Dell OEM license, so what ? | Jul 03 12:05 |
| oiaohm | Dell provided OEM licences of XP. | Jul 03 12:05 |
| tinhatnoid | Dont buy Dell if you dont like them. | Jul 03 12:05 |
| oiaohm | Due to what is in the standard OEM EULA licence the transfer was invalid. | Jul 03 12:06 |
| tinhatnoid | last I checked Dell is not Microsoft, | Jul 03 12:06 |
| MinceR | don't buy laptops if you don't like windows | Jul 03 12:06 |
| MinceR | there, fixed that for you. | Jul 03 12:06 |
| MinceR | or rather, don't buy premade computers if you don't like windows | Jul 03 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Each big makers OEM disks are slightly different and are detectable. | Jul 03 12:07 |
| MinceR | sounds a lot like tying, doesn't it? | Jul 03 12:07 |
| MinceR | so much like tying that in fact this is what we call tying | Jul 03 12:07 |
| tinhatnoid | tying what to what again ? | Jul 03 12:07 |
| MinceR | read your buffer/log, i'm not going to repeat everything three times every day because you don't have a brain. | Jul 03 12:09 |
| tinhatnoid | I did read what you said about tying SW to the computer but thats not what tying is by the definition of tying, so what else do you want me to read ? | Jul 03 12:11 |
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| tinhatnoid | So far my log fails to show anywhere that you have said what two products MS tell or one it sells that ties to another MS product they sell, as per the definition of tying. ? | Jul 03 12:12 |
| tinhatnoid | *sell | Jul 03 12:12 |
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| oiaohm | If you aquired your MS windows in retail box it don't have the hardware restriction in its licence. Also the newer OEM licence is a bugger only can be sold with fully assembed computers unless you live in country that forbids that restriction. | Jul 03 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Really tinhatnoid is funny. OEM versions are cheaper for the simple reason they are hardware bound by licence. | Jul 03 12:23 |
| tinhatnoid | and yet its still not a problem for everyone !! go figure i guess. ive used OEM and boxed versions and still no problems here, some might but I dont know anyone yet that actually has. and I upgrade and replace peoples PC's for a living. | Jul 03 12:25 |
| tinhatnoid | but there is little point arguing, you have your opinion and I have mine, but I am still waiting to find out the 2 products are tying together. but thats another day I guess :) | Jul 03 12:26 |
| oiaohm | Modernday OEM licences are linked to motherboards. | Jul 03 12:27 |
| oiaohm | You will get away with it for a while longer. | Jul 03 12:28 |
| tinhatnoid | ok, | Jul 03 12:28 |
| oiaohm | Don't cry when it magically stops working. | Jul 03 12:28 |
| oiaohm | Its simply that you have not read the licences you are dealing with. | Jul 03 12:28 |
| tinhatnoid | but I thought we were talking about MS who are not an OEM. | Jul 03 12:28 |
| oiaohm | MS OEM licences. | Jul 03 12:28 |
| oiaohm | The are motherboard binding. | Jul 03 12:29 |
| oiaohm | the/they | Jul 03 12:29 |
| oiaohm | MS is about the only company that sells licences of that type. | Jul 03 12:29 |
| tinhatnoid | so its MS's license yes not the OEM's license. And i guess Vista is "modernday" ive changed Mobo's on "MS OEM licenses" but again, I had not problems at all but thats just me | Jul 03 12:30 |
| oiaohm | MS is not enforcing the licence to its letter with activation. | Jul 03 12:31 |
| oiaohm | By the licence they are in there right to refuse activation of a motherboard swap or classed a motherboard swaped with a OEM licence as pirated. | Jul 03 12:32 |
| tinhatnoid | Im wondering if you know what EULA stands for ? particularly the EU bit, (no not eupopian union) | Jul 03 12:32 |
| oiaohm | end user licence agreement | Jul 03 12:32 |
| oiaohm | Of course I know what it stands for. I am a registered MS system builder. | Jul 03 12:33 |
| tinhatnoid | yes, end user. | Jul 03 12:33 |
| oiaohm | As a system builder I have access to a key that allows me to run machines not activated. | Jul 03 12:34 |
| oiaohm | To install and configure. | Jul 03 12:35 |
| oiaohm | For machines I may change my mind about. | Jul 03 12:35 |
| oiaohm | The end user is not a loop hole tinhatnoid for the owner of the machine. | Jul 03 12:36 |
| tinhatnoid | yes, I know, i was just making the point the end user is not the OEM | Jul 03 12:37 |
| oiaohm | You doing the alteration might be able to legally walk away from the agreement but the end user ie the owner is still nuked. | Jul 03 12:37 |
| oiaohm | OEM software has different EULA to boxed sets. | Jul 03 12:37 |
| tinhatnoid | ok | Jul 03 12:38 |
| oiaohm | Its important to be aware of the differences. | Jul 03 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Particularly if you are in a country where they apply. | Jul 03 12:39 |
| oiaohm | The restriction on only selling OEM software with fully built systems here does not apply. But the motherboard lock does. | Jul 03 12:40 |
| oiaohm | You have not stated your country tinhatnoid you might be lucky to be sitting in a country where motherboard locking of software is illegal. | Jul 03 12:41 |
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| oiaohm | And that would explain it working. | Jul 03 12:42 |
| oiaohm | Yes EULA restrictions alter country to country. | Jul 03 12:42 |
| oiaohm | Redhat conditions are designed to be the same no matter what country you are in. I really wish MS would just do that. | Jul 03 12:45 |
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| oiaohm | Also Redhat does not have different licences for OEM provided and box sets. MS licencing is more complex than it really needs to be | Jul 03 12:52 |
| oiaohm | I think you had a simple case of not understanding the MS licensing complexities. tinhatnoid | Jul 03 12:57 |
| oiaohm | Anything interesting in the nws | Jul 03 13:03 |
| oiaohm | news | Jul 03 13:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] kubuntu 9.10 on celery, will aptitude install ubuntu-netbook-remix. trident driver in xorg 1.6.2rc1 set screen to 800x600. grah. | Jul 03 13:08 | |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/07/universal-plans-to-bring-asteroids-to-theaters.ars O boy waht is the world coming to. | Jul 03 13:09 |
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| MinceR | i'm waiting for Pong: The Movie. | Jul 03 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Hmm that could be fun. | Jul 03 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Pong the evolution. | Jul 03 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Start of at pong and by end of Movie be 3d tennis. | Jul 03 13:15 |
| harrytuttle | hello, just ask again if there is anyone who could manage to pack and maintain a distribution like Ubuntu? | Jul 03 13:23 |
| PetoKraus | no one can manage to do something as bad | Jul 03 13:25 |
| PetoKraus | :) | Jul 03 13:25 |
| MinceR | :) | Jul 03 13:25 |
| oiaohm | Teams maintain distrobutions. | Jul 03 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Quality of team member selection effects quality of distributions. | Jul 03 13:28 |
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| harrytuttle | how hard would it then to repack ubuntu? | Jul 03 13:53 |
| harrytuttle | like without mono and some other default apps? | Jul 03 13:53 |
| MinceR | shouldn't be difficult, there should be howtos or wiki entries on how to remaster the discs | Jul 03 13:53 |
| harrytuttle | is there already an "official" ubuntu-based version without mono? | Jul 03 13:59 |
| MinceR | i haven't heard of any as such, but gNewSense might exclude mono | Jul 03 13:59 |
| harrytuttle | gNewSense yeah, wasnt there an ubuntu remix with all free stuff (like non-blob-drivers?) | Jul 03 14:00 |
| harrytuttle | or was that cancelled? | Jul 03 14:01 |
| MinceR | iirc there was gobuntu, but iirc that was cancelled in favor of gNewSense | Jul 03 14:03 |
| MinceR | gNewSense is an ubuntu-based distro, afaik | Jul 03 14:04 |
| harrytuttle | ah okay | Jul 03 14:04 |
| harrytuttle | i saw there is already plans for GNUbuntu | Jul 03 14:05 |
| harrytuttle | free as in freedom ubuntu | Jul 03 14:05 |
| harrytuttle | somewhat like gnewsense | Jul 03 14:05 |
| MinceR | :) | Jul 03 14:06 |
| oiaohm | There are utils around to repack distrobutions. | Jul 03 14:07 |
| MinceR | i think i'll install debian on my new laptop | Jul 03 14:07 |
| oiaohm | Customising distributions for need is something I do quite a bit. | Jul 03 14:07 |
| oiaohm | But I don't class myself as a distribution maintainer. | Jul 03 14:08 |
| harrytuttle | oiaohm: i googled a bit and found that stallmann didnt like the name gnubuntu, hence there was gobuntu | Jul 03 14:09 |
| harrytuttle | oiaohm: comment above was meant not specifically for you :) | Jul 03 14:10 |
| harrytuttle | oiaohm: you do that as part of job or personal use? | Jul 03 14:12 |
| oiaohm | Part of job. | Jul 03 14:14 |
| oiaohm | Customised server configurations and the like embed straight in installer. | Jul 03 14:14 |
| oiaohm | So restore of systems is fast. | Jul 03 14:15 |
| MinceR | also, now canonical likely won't tolerate any name that contains "ubuntu" either | Jul 03 14:15 |
| harrytuttle | sounds interesting | Jul 03 14:15 |
| harrytuttle | so you use ubuntu or debian or else? | Jul 03 14:15 |
| oiaohm | Depends on client. | Jul 03 14:15 |
| oiaohm | Debian Ubuntu Redhat and Centos are the top 4. | Jul 03 14:16 |
| harrytuttle | thinking about doing a prepackaged ubuntu-fork without mono | Jul 03 14:16 |
| oiaohm | At least Linux's are nicer than building slipstreemed windows. | Jul 03 14:16 |
| harrytuttle | so to split effects and therefore dimish value of the original ubunti | Jul 03 14:17 |
| harrytuttle | dimish = diminish | Jul 03 14:17 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu depends simply on a debian meta package. | Jul 03 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Ie ubuntu-desktop is a meta package that contains a list of applications to install. | Jul 03 14:18 |
| oiaohm | If you just create a new meta package that does not use mono infected parts and builds disk it would work. | Jul 03 14:19 |
| oiaohm | That is what xubuntu and others are. | Jul 03 14:19 |
| oiaohm | More fun is auto customisaton of configurations. | Jul 03 14:19 |
| tinhatnoid | If I were canicial I would be more worried about removing bugs than software. or adding anything. | Jul 03 14:21 |
| oiaohm | http://linuxcoe.sourceforge.net/ HP also makes it fairly simple for Linux system admins to start getting there toes into customised distrobutions. | Jul 03 14:22 |
| oiaohm | .net is not really Linux development compadible. | Jul 03 14:23 |
| MinceR | tinhatnoid: if you were canonical you'd have already signed a patent deal with m$. :> | Jul 03 14:23 |
| tinhatnoid | No, thats IBM's claim to fame. | Jul 03 14:24 |
| MinceR | i didn't know it was IBM who bought SuSe. | Jul 03 14:26 |
| tinhatnoid | is SuSe Novell's linux ? | Jul 03 14:28 |
| tinhatnoid | im guessing it is, | Jul 03 14:28 |
| oiaohm | Suse is novell these days. | Jul 03 14:29 |
| harrytuttle | can anyone take the ubuntu logo and re-use it? | Jul 03 14:29 |
| harrytuttle | like xubuntu, etc.? | Jul 03 14:29 |
| oiaohm | No harrytuttle its a trademark. | Jul 03 14:29 |
| tinhatnoid | I expect its trademarked | Jul 03 14:29 |
| oiaohm | xubuntu is made by the Ubuntu team. | Jul 03 14:29 |
| harrytuttle | ohkay | Jul 03 14:29 |
| oiaohm | Same with kubuntu | Jul 03 14:29 |
| harrytuttle | so any way to do it similar? | Jul 03 14:29 |
| harrytuttle | like when does trademark different enough? | Jul 03 14:30 |
| oiaohm | Simplest way is not to overlap. | Jul 03 14:30 |
| oiaohm | http://www.linuxmint.com/ Mint has a ubuntu core hiding under it. | Jul 03 14:32 |
| harrytuttle | what if we provoke a little and see if ubuntu sues? over software that intends to make ubuntu even more free? | Jul 03 14:32 |
| oiaohm | There is nothing that says the Logo has to be kept looking anything the same. | Jul 03 14:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock @MargaretMcElroy "Wisdom for Today Answers for Tomorrow" here's one: astrology spam = block | Jul 03 14:33 | |
| harrytuttle | oiaohm: could you do a package which works 1:1 copy ubuntu without mono default but all other repositories accesible? | Jul 03 14:33 |
| harrytuttle | package = distro | Jul 03 14:33 |
| oiaohm | Yes. | Jul 03 14:34 |
| oiaohm | apt does support blacklisting packages. | Jul 03 14:34 |
| harrytuttle | and change some logos and replace with other ones... | Jul 03 14:35 |
| MinceR | harrytuttle: "n00buntu"? :> | Jul 03 14:35 |
| harrytuttle | hehe | Jul 03 14:35 |
| harrytuttle | good one | Jul 03 14:35 |
| oiaohm | In theory you could provide custom installer with mono blacklisted. | Jul 03 14:35 |
| MinceR | explained as an acronym for "No mOnO uBUNTU" :> | Jul 03 14:36 |
| oiaohm | Its really simple really to black list a package just make a package that is incompadible with the packages you don't want. | Jul 03 14:37 |
| oiaohm | and have it installed at end of install removing the package you don't want. | Jul 03 14:38 |
| harrytuttle | okay | Jul 03 14:39 |
| oiaohm | http://tim.thechases.com/mononono/ | Jul 03 14:40 |
| oiaohm | And you don't even need to create it for mono. | Jul 03 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Someone has done the work for you. | Jul 03 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Yes the mononono package works on all .deb distrobutions. | Jul 03 14:41 |
| harrytuttle | yeah, but like all monofans seem to be burdened by the hassle of one action more to install mono afterwards | Jul 03 14:41 |
| harrytuttle | people are lazy doing one more step to undo mono afterwards | Jul 03 14:41 |
| oiaohm | Including mononono makes it harder to install mono. | Jul 03 14:41 |
| oiaohm | While mononono is installed all mono install attempts will cause a conflit. | Jul 03 14:42 |
| harrytuttle | so there should be a default image of ubuntu-fork without anything mono | Jul 03 14:42 |
| oiaohm | xubuntu and kubuntu both don't contain mono. | Jul 03 14:43 |
| harrytuttle | is vlc installed in ubuntu default? | Jul 03 14:43 |
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| oiaohm | ubuntu is really just a sub branch. | Jul 03 14:43 |
| oiaohm | You could also design to add a custom meta package to ubuntu-server and go up from there as well. | Jul 03 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Also avoiding mono. | Jul 03 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Basically there are tones of options to get around the issue just no one has really bothered yet. | Jul 03 14:45 |
| tinhatnoid | if it ever turns out to be an issue as well. | Jul 03 14:45 |
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| oiaohm | Why bother tinhatnoid. Most Ubuntu users are noobs who really don't know better and really will not listern. | Jul 03 14:48 |
| tinhatnoid | yes, it does seem to be mainly a beginners distro. | Jul 03 14:49 |
| tinhatnoid | and most developers would probably use something else anyway, so removing Mono from Ubuntu should have never been an issue, they should just remove it. | Jul 03 14:50 |
| tinhatnoid | and put it in the repo if you decide you do want it, or even a second repo | Jul 03 14:51 |
| oiaohm | http://www.geekconnection.org/remastersys/remastersystool.html Its supprisingly simple to make a livecd that you can install with. | Jul 03 14:53 |
| Eruaran | You want noobs ? | Jul 03 14:54 |
| Eruaran | I'll give you noobs | Jul 03 14:54 |
| oiaohm | Have a installed copy of ubuntu. Remove the bits you don't want add a few bits you want and remastersystool it. Remember to provide a disk with the source of the package you used done. | Jul 03 14:54 |
| Eruaran | Actually I'll give you completely stupid people | Jul 03 14:54 |
| Eruaran | Here's todays example from the store | Jul 03 14:54 |
| Eruaran | A woman rang up complaining and carrying on like a complete bitch | Jul 03 14:55 |
| Eruaran | all because someone forgot to put a power lead in the box | Jul 03 14:55 |
| Eruaran | simple mistake | Jul 03 14:55 |
| oiaohm | There is worse. | Jul 03 14:55 |
| Eruaran | I told her she was welcome to come and grab one | Jul 03 14:55 |
| Eruaran | oh this aint anywhere near finished yet | Jul 03 14:55 |
| Eruaran | She complains and says she expects to be re-imbursed for the petrol for driving her car back to the store | Jul 03 14:56 |
| oiaohm | I get ordered out to a job that I have fixed remotely because the person the other end does not believe remote access can effect computers. | Jul 03 14:56 |
| Eruaran | She complains she didn't get next day delivery | Jul 03 14:56 |
| Eruaran | Even though I've told her about five F*&^#*& times that next day delivery is in the metro area only | Jul 03 14:56 |
| Eruaran | And then | Jul 03 14:57 |
| Eruaran | When she comes into the store | Jul 03 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Yes a 2 hours by air by the way Eruaran | Jul 03 14:57 |
| oiaohm | That they were paying for. | Jul 03 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Just to have me turn up show them the logs and that it was fixed. | Jul 03 14:57 |
| Eruaran | She bad mouths us in front of another customer telling them to check everything because we dont give people all their stuff | Jul 03 14:57 |
| Eruaran | THEN | Jul 03 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Normal. | Jul 03 14:57 |
| Eruaran | By this time I'm fuming | Jul 03 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Perfectly normal. | Jul 03 14:57 |
| Eruaran | She's got the motherboard manual | Jul 03 14:58 |
| harrytuttle | lol | Jul 03 14:58 |
| Eruaran | and shes trying to quiz me as to why all these cables and things arent in the box | Jul 03 14:58 |
| Eruaran | I'm like | Jul 03 14:58 |
| Eruaran | Are you F#Y#( kidding ? | Jul 03 14:58 |
| oiaohm | We have checklists. | Jul 03 14:58 |
| Eruaran | She wants to know where the floppy cable is | Jul 03 14:58 |
| oiaohm | To prevent that kind of problems. | Jul 03 14:59 |
| Eruaran | I tell her | Jul 03 14:59 |
| Eruaran | YOU DONT HAVE A FLOPPY DRIVE | Jul 03 14:59 |
| Eruaran | She wants to know where the SATA cables are | Jul 03 14:59 |
| Eruaran | THEYRE INSIDE YOUR COMPUTER | Jul 03 14:59 |
| Eruaran | OMFG | Jul 03 14:59 |
| oiaohm | Normal. | Jul 03 14:59 |
| harrytuttle | Eruarun: Where you work? sacramento? | Jul 03 14:59 |
| Eruaran | no | Jul 03 14:59 |
| Eruaran | I've had it | Jul 03 14:59 |
| oiaohm | We ask customers when the order if they want all the drive cable or not. | Jul 03 14:59 |
| Eruaran | So I ask her if she'd like to know where the motherboard is as well | Jul 03 15:00 |
| Eruaran | since thats not in the box either | Jul 03 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Your policies need work Eruaran | Jul 03 15:00 |
| Eruaran | No, she was just completely stupid | Jul 03 15:00 |
| Eruaran | Someone made one simple mistake, an oversight | Jul 03 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Both are at fault here. | Jul 03 15:00 |
| Eruaran | One simple power cable | Jul 03 15:00 |
| Eruaran | Eeasy fixed | Jul 03 15:00 |
| *amarsh04 had great service from a local pc shop... selected bits around noon on a Saturday and was told it was ready to pick up assembled about 3 hours later | Jul 03 15:00 | |
| oiaohm | Do you use checklists to make sure you put everything in Eruaran. | Jul 03 15:01 |
| Eruaran | She decided to be a completely retarded bitch | Jul 03 15:01 |
| Eruaran | oiaohm: we usually do | Jul 03 15:01 |
| oiaohm | This case. | Jul 03 15:01 |
| oiaohm | ? | Jul 03 15:01 |
| oiaohm | I would suspect someone did not. | Jul 03 15:01 |
| Eruaran | Someone simply overlooked it | Jul 03 15:01 |
| Eruaran | very busy | Jul 03 15:01 |
| oiaohm | Power cables are on the checklist here. | Jul 03 15:01 |
| oiaohm | Worst case was having a 20 machine install and finding 8 missing power cables. | Jul 03 15:02 |
| Eruaran | I'm not going to put up with that kind of behaviour just because someone makes one little mistake | Jul 03 15:02 |
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| tinhatnoid | yes, who's your QA manager ? CONC and all you know | Jul 03 15:02 |
| oiaohm | Ever since we have had it on checklist. | Jul 03 15:02 |
| Eruaran | ? | Jul 03 15:02 |
| Eruaran | The point is | Jul 03 15:02 |
| Eruaran | Her behaviour was completely unjustified | Jul 03 15:02 |
| Eruaran | I had already talked to her husband | Jul 03 15:03 |
| oiaohm | Her behavior was over the top correct. | Jul 03 15:03 |
| tinhatnoid | CONC Cost Of Non Conforming. is what you had today | Jul 03 15:03 |
| Eruaran | I had already told her husband that we have a power cable for them | Jul 03 15:03 |
| oiaohm | Both sides are at fault here. | Jul 03 15:03 |
| Eruaran | And we had already apologised several times | Jul 03 15:04 |
| oiaohm | you screwed up. | Jul 03 15:04 |
| oiaohm | she went over the top. | Jul 03 15:04 |
| Eruaran | She went way over the top | Jul 03 15:04 |
| oiaohm | Basically don't screw up. | Jul 03 15:04 |
| Eruaran | oh duh | Jul 03 15:04 |
| Eruaran | gee what a revelation | Jul 03 15:04 |
| oiaohm | And fast tracking of who did what. | Jul 03 15:04 |
| Eruaran | There's a difference between reasonable and unreasonable | Jul 03 15:05 |
| tinhatnoid | yep, its a hard old world out there, | Jul 03 15:05 |
| oiaohm | So you can pass off to the person who build the machine to wear the ear full. | Jul 03 15:05 |
| Eruaran | I was way to busy to have my time wasted by someone who was completely unreasonable | Jul 03 15:05 |
| oiaohm | It does prevent them from making the mistake again. | Jul 03 15:05 |
| oiaohm | No one wants the ear full. | Jul 03 15:05 |
| tinhatnoid | a QA scheme would, | Jul 03 15:06 |
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| oiaohm | Price of mistakes is really high at times Eruaran. | Jul 03 15:06 |
| Eruaran | Theres only so many times I'm going to apologize before I say enough is enough | Jul 03 15:06 |
| Eruaran | And I'm not going to put up with some bitch impuning our integrity in front of other customers | Jul 03 15:07 |
| Eruaran | If someone wants to do that they can go to the real rip off merchants around the corner | Jul 03 15:07 |
| oiaohm | Its the way you handle it to. | Jul 03 15:08 |
| amarsh04 | question for 2 fellow .au participants... if your car was hit and made undriveable by another car doing an unsafe overtake on a Saturday night and you had both work and family commitments on the Sunday, and the same insurance company insures both you and the other driver, should the insurance company cover all your taxi fares on the Sunday (given that it would be impractical to arrange a hire car and still keep | Jul 03 15:08 |
| amarsh04 | other commitments)? | Jul 03 15:08 |
| Eruaran | If you don't defend your integrity you look guilty | Jul 03 15:08 |
| oiaohm | Lot of people want to hear that the person resoposable will be made pay. | Jul 03 15:08 |
| Eruaran | its that simple | Jul 03 15:08 |
| oiaohm | For making such a simple mistake so it will never happen again. | Jul 03 15:08 |
| oiaohm | Its part the art of knowing what they want to hear. Just Apologizing is a common mistake. | Jul 03 15:09 |
| amarsh04 | I usually like someone who has made a mistake to a apologise and put themselves out a bit to rectify things | Jul 03 15:09 |
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| oiaohm | There is a art to handling. | Jul 03 15:10 |
| amarsh04 | exactly | Jul 03 15:11 |
| oiaohm | To the wrong things it explodes. | Jul 03 15:11 |
| oiaohm | To/Do | Jul 03 15:11 |
| oiaohm | The art of handling those things only took me 8 years to get resonable at. | Jul 03 15:12 |
| oiaohm | And I still stuff it from time to time. | Jul 03 15:12 |
| oiaohm | Worst is the machine you have repaired and keeps on coming back with different defects. | Jul 03 15:12 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Personal Jesus (PH Electro Mix) - G&G" ♫ http://blip.fm/~9b7mp | Jul 03 15:13 | |
| oiaohm | It make that lost power cord one look like a minor issue. | Jul 03 15:13 |
| amarsh04 | I inflicted a problem on my new pc by loading a newer BIOS and not resetting the BIOS afterwards | Jul 03 15:14 |
| amarsh04 | trivial thing, but it was annoying to diagnose | Jul 03 15:14 |
| oiaohm | Worse is finding the bios has been illegal customised to fail every 30 days. | Jul 03 15:15 |
| amarsh04 | ouch | Jul 03 15:15 |
| oiaohm | By a really under handed IT officer. | Jul 03 15:15 |
| oiaohm | Currently serving jail time amarsh04. | Jul 03 15:16 |
| oiaohm | I have see all kinds of evil amarsh04 | Jul 03 15:16 |
| *_Hicham__ (n=chatzill@41.250.226.153) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 03 15:16 | |
| _Hicham__ | Hi All! | Jul 03 15:16 |
| amarsh04 | hi... | Jul 03 15:16 |
| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham__ | Jul 03 15:17 |
| _Hicham__ | oiaohm : I created a mononono rpm version | Jul 03 15:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Personal Jesus (Kindervater Remix) Hardstyle - G&G" ♫ http://blip.fm/~9b7xa | Jul 03 15:18 | |
| oiaohm | The guy was talking about deb based so I did not cover that option _Hicham__ | Jul 03 15:18 |
| _Hicham__ | ah, I see | Jul 03 15:18 |
| _Hicham__ | adding packages to fedora is really difficult | Jul 03 15:18 |
| amarsh04 | I'm a bit of a sad case, I haven't learned C, yet I have textbooks autographed by Dennis Ritchie and PJ Plaugher | Jul 03 15:20 |
| oiaohm | http://blogs.computerworld.com/london_stock_exchange_to_abandon_failed_windows_platform | Jul 03 15:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Voodoo People (Pendulum Remix) - The Prodigy" ♫ http://blip.fm/~9b822 | Jul 03 15:23 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Sidekick- Deep Fear (Phobia Club Remix) - " ♫ http://blip.fm/~9b86y | Jul 03 15:23 | |
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| trmanco | anybody here use XMPP MUC? | Jul 03 15:27 |
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| PetoKraus | hmm | Jul 03 15:50 |
| PetoKraus | http://www.irc.gjh.sk/pastebin/850 | Jul 03 15:50 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] How free software works in the Balkans, from FLOSS-Kosova: http://bit.ly/ST0it | Jul 03 17:23 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] NZOSS submission on software patents: http://bit.ly/jk2IL | Jul 03 17:48 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Acção da Greenpeace em Lisboa: http://is.gd/1mD3p LOOOL | Jul 03 21:13 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] "Some Vista users say they're getting the Ultimate shaft" http://bit.ly/IqpPC #vista #microsoft | Jul 03 21:43 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Mono developer uses f-word to abuse RMS: http://is.gd/1mEJG | Jul 03 21:58 | |
| trmanco | Mono developer uses f-word to abuse RMS: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26075/1090/ | Jul 03 21:58 |
| trmanco | LOL | Jul 03 21:58 |
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| ThistleWeb | any particular f word? I believe there is more than one | Jul 03 22:03 |
| trmanco | I just saved the page | Jul 03 22:04 |
| amarsh04 | f-spot? (-: | Jul 03 22:10 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Jul 03 22:11 |
| ThistleWeb | there's a whole dictionary to pick from, then you can switch languages and start again | Jul 03 22:12 |
| twitter1 | This defense raised an alarm for me the other day, "So, Debian didn't change the default installation (whatever that's supposed to be) but the dependency of a package which is used by a minority of our users who explicitly wishes to install everything GNOME related " | Jul 03 22:21 |
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| twitter1 | I've seen this "whatever that's supposed to be" used before. | Jul 03 22:21 |
| twitter1 | The most obvious meaning of "default" is what the Debian installer choses. | Jul 03 22:21 |
| twitter1 | Alexander Reichle-Schmehl points to the gnome desktop environment package, http://packages.debian.org/lenny/gnome-desktop-environment | Jul 03 22:23 |
| twitter1 | The question of "default" installation should more properly concentrate on what the installer does with it's "desktop environment" install option. | Jul 03 22:24 |
| twitter1 | This currently only offers Gnome. | Jul 03 22:24 |
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| twitter1 | it would be better still to answer the question, "is mono free software?" | Jul 03 22:28 |
| twitter1 | Patent encumbered software is not considered free. | Jul 03 22:29 |
| twitter1 | Because these issues and confusing to a novice, they should never work there way into an install. | Jul 03 22:29 |
| twitter1 | mono, if it is offered at all, should be relegated to non-free or contrib where novices will never have to worry about them. | Jul 03 22:30 |
| trmanco | I just saved the pages myself | Jul 03 22:34 |
| trmanco | maybe in a couple of year I can laugh | Jul 03 22:34 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] "Windows 7..deja vu edition?" http://bit.ly/8W9KV #microsoft #windows 7 #7 #vista | Jul 03 23:43 | |
| _Goblin | Hi all... | Jul 03 23:44 |
| _Goblin | last story on BN dated the 1st of July....is Roy on holiday? | Jul 03 23:45 |
| trmanco | _Goblin, yeah, something like that I guess | Jul 03 23:50 |
| _Goblin | ah.. | Jul 03 23:51 |
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