IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 12th, 2009

macabe_aeshna23 got him talking about conspiracy. 12 00:03
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schestowitzI pasted a portion of this discussion there.Jul 12 00:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Goldman Sachs Accused of Creating Bubbles 12 00:11
schestowitzMicrosoft's anti-Linux trolls now curse me in my personal blog that's not about Linux at all... or computingJul 12 00:11
schestowitzHa!Jul 12 00:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] freda's temp is 38.6C. a looked after f, I did housework and built a shelf, older teen made dinner. enforced family day in :-)Jul 12 00:19
schestowitzWhy did Carla link to this old anti-Linux guy? 12 00:19
schestowitzI recognised the nameJul 12 00:19
schestowitzHe posts a lot of anti-Linux and this is denouncement of those who identify attacks on LinuxJul 12 00:19
schestowitz 12 00:24
twitterthe trolls harass you in cola, on BN, Slashdot and everywhere else, why not your personal blog as well?Jul 12 00:25
twitterit's a slog.Jul 12 00:25
twitterin an age when anyone can set up a blog and ruin billions of dollars worth of careful lies, it seems that M$ people have taken their fight to each and every user of free software.Jul 12 00:26
twitterlinux today is not loading for me.Jul 12 00:27
schestowitz Linux based Solar-powered networking anywhere < >Jul 12 00:29
twitterWorks in testing, fails on Lenny.Jul 12 00:30
twitterhmmm.Jul 12 00:31
schestowitzIt Is Like a Cow in That I Can’t Use It to Get Work Done 12 00:34
schestowitzit's so oldJul 12 00:34
schestowitzWhat's the matter with LinuxToday?Jul 12 00:34
twitterI don't know.Jul 12 00:34
schestowitzThey should rename it LinuxYesterdayJul 12 00:34
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twitterI've had problems with stuff associated with these people 12 00:35
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twitterWhat's the name of the story?Jul 12 00:36
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schestowitzThe cranky CIO says the hard drive is inside the computer 12 00:42
schestowitzWhich story?Jul 12 00:42
twitterforget it.Jul 12 00:43
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schestowitz"The HeliOS Project and her affiliated programs will cease to install Ubuntu on another computer should this travesty take place." 12 00:51
schestowitz"rick spencer worked for MS " < >Jul 12 00:52
schestowitzNice trick: 12 00:58
schestowitzLinux Magazine covers iPhone... weird... 12 01:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Down With tHE CAPS LOCK KEy 12 01:06
schestowitzRajmi, Milf, etc mean nothing and have zero author    < >Jul 12 01:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz first thing I do on *any* new install is set 'make caps lock an additional ctrl'Jul 12 01:19
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schestowitzMore Linux-hostile stuff from Linux 'Insider' 12 01:20
schestowitzMicrosoft press reviews Linux: 12 01:42
schestowitzBlech. 12 01:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: why not assign it to ctrl+alt+backspace? (or vice versa)Jul 12 01:45
schestowitz"I know that open source insiders will be aghast at my comments, as I sound just like Microsoft. It is true that there have been compensating effects from the open source movement, and those effects are significant and hugely desirable." 12 01:47
schestowitzSounds like another ORLY type. "2.0"Jul 12 01:48
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Internet users heavily into cloud computing, most unknowingly < >Jul 12 01:58
schestowitz 12 02:00
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twitterwho is chis at  ->  "the creation of the GPL and the Free Software Foundation was a true moment of serendipity. A multi-billion dollar industry was created, by accident, from something invented for a completely different purpose. Unforeseen by RMS, it just happens that the economics of open source, which reduces the opportunity cost of obtaining software by trading in source code instead of money, is fundamentally soundJul 12 02:37
twitterChris might not have seen it.  I did not.  We should not project that ignorance on FSF and RMS.  They knew that software would be created in freedom.Jul 12 02:38
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schestowitzit's not about money, it's about ethicsJul 12 02:39
twitterNo one is being asked to "work for nothing"Jul 12 02:39
twitterpeople share tools that get jobs done.Jul 12 02:39
twitterRMS knew this would work because he came from a place that did it.Jul 12 02:40
schestowitz 12 02:40
_Hicham_ethics are more important than moneyJul 12 02:40
schestowitzPeople use computers not just as programmersJul 12 02:40
schestowitzAnd programmers too are users of softwareJul 12 02:41
twitterVery few people earn a living the non free software way.  The rest of people who manipulate them for a living are better off with free software and won't know the difference, except they will never feel helpless and demoralized.Jul 12 02:42
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schestowitzI just got the reply: "LOL. He's been "infected" when I wrote: "@einfeldt I don't think @migueldeicaza means anything bad, I just think he is misguided after spending so much time with Microsoft" < >Jul 12 02:48
twitterhe's been spunJul 12 02:55
schestowitzIndoctrinated, IMHOJul 12 02:57
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Means "Intellectual Honesty" 12 03:02
twitterNifty goals 12 03:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Computing Environments Change to Benefit GNU/Linux 12 03:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Richard Stallman Advocates GNU/Linux for Freedom Value 12 03:05
twitterrelative paths come to kbibtex 12 03:07
twitterrelative paths are a big deal when you try to archive things.Jul 12 03:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Tips for Linux Advocacy (from Linux-hostile Site) 12 03:09
twitterheh, the hostile atmosphere for women in software must be a non free software thing. 12 03:09
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ksplice Co-Founder and COO Interviewed 12 03:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] First Look at Linux 2.6.31 12 03:13
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twitterIck, another "tips" article that tries to tell people how to act.  Tag line, " Elbert Hannah ... [O'Reilly vi guy] has used Linux and worked actively in the open source community for over 10 years. In and around the house, he has more than 10 instances of Linux and as many versions and distros. He doesn't like technical religious wars and prefers things to be sorted out by merit. "Jul 12 03:14
twitterHas it been ten years, since I've been doing this?  Yep.Jul 12 03:15
twitterSorting things out by merit is not the right answer.Jul 12 03:15
twitterSorting things out by freedom is.Jul 12 03:16
twitterIf you have money, pay to get the free thing fixed.Jul 12 03:16
twitterThen you get freedom and performance.Jul 12 03:16
twitterIf you just jump to the non free thing, you get neither.Jul 12 03:16
twitterMost people who use non free software think they have the best performance they can get, but they have almost no real reference frame.Jul 12 03:17
schestowitzneighbour's PCJul 12 03:18
schestowitzNo h/w parityJul 12 03:18
schestowitzSo they buy a new PCJul 12 03:18
schestowitzAnd blame worm bloat on PC going "old"Jul 12 03:18
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KOffice 2.0 Reviewed 12 03:27
twitterhe he.  Judging from the mono camp's stupid reactions to RMSJul 12 03:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNOME 2.26.3 is Released , Nice New Themes Available 12 03:28
twitterand his keynote talk, I'd say RMS did very well at making this happen 12 03:28
Diablo-D3heh, I'm being attacked for my blog entry, lolJul 12 03:28
twitterRMS warned about mono briefly there.  All the mono people could do is call him a sexist, brilliant.Jul 12 03:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNOME and KDE Grow Closer Together at Gran Canaria 12 03:30
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schestowitzDiablo-D3: don't ever criticise MonoJul 12 03:30
schestowitzRule #1: Microsoft's .NET is the bestest thing in the worldJul 12 03:30
twitterJoin the FSFE, the smallest unit of freedom is a fellow. 12 03:31
twitter 12 03:31
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE 4.3.0 Reaches Last Steps Before Release , Tested in Kubuntu 9.04 12 03:36
schestowitzgnJul 12 03:37
neighborlee  < you may already have seen, but if not its interesting how miguel commented and mentioned FUD, while not addressing any other comments in the article, just concentrating on FUD'ing this one issue of 'support' ...typical of mono supporters and its stunning they think people don't see right through itJul 12 03:37
Diablo-D3schestowitz: well you know what?Jul 12 03:39
Diablo-D3Im going to criticise the shit out out itJul 12 03:39
Diablo-D3 <-- microsoft's think tankJul 12 03:51
_Hicham_Diablo-D3 : what is that picture?Jul 12 03:53
Diablo-D3didnt I just say?Jul 12 03:54
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twitterwordnet.  not working for me.Jul 12 04:17
twitterstuck on 4/5 stylesheets.Jul 12 04:18
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twitterkonq stuck on 45 of 64 imagesJul 12 04:18
twitterthere goes my cpu fanJul 12 04:19
twitterastoundingJul 12 04:19
twitter185 seconds later, netsurf pulls through.  Konq still waits.Jul 12 04:20
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twitterinteresting article.  I don't agree that M$ can field more programmers than anyone else.  This might be true for non free software, but the free software world has more muscle behind it than any company.Jul 12 04:25
twitterHis business reasoning is solid.  A programmer is in a much better position learning Java than Mono when it comes to landing a job.  The only reason a business would deploy mono is if they are already a Windows shop.Jul 12 04:27
twitterMono jobs are created by M$ in one way or another and won't be around when M$ decides to pull the plug.Jul 12 04:28
twitterJava is widely deployed and free, so it's going to be around forever.Jul 12 04:28
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Diablo-D3twitter: mono jobs imo dont existJul 12 04:38
Diablo-D3they're not even created by microsoftJul 12 04:38
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Diablo-D3microsoft wants you using windowsJul 12 04:38
_Hicham_there is a lot of mono jobsJul 12 04:42
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twitterSarkozy pushes 3 strikes again. 12 04:50
twitternow a judge decides your fate, which is cut off, fined 300,000 euros and 2 years in jail.Jul 12 04:52
Diablo-D3I wonder if he realizes france will just be disconnected from the internetJul 12 04:53
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_Hicham_france is just a follower of the USJul 12 05:03
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EruaranCustomer switched to Ubuntu this week because of Microsoft's disgraceful lack of international language support for Windows XP Home.Jul 12 05:26
twitter:) welcome to freedom, customerJul 12 05:29
EruaranyesJul 12 05:29
EruaranShe was hopping mad and blamed us at first.Jul 12 05:30
EruaranBut we explained that Microsoft doesn't give pretty much anyone but the large manufacturers their MUI image.Jul 12 05:31
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EruaranMUI is their "multi lingual user interface"Jul 12 05:32
Eruarantranslation = wankJul 12 05:32
EruaranIt means that if you have XP Home on your notebook you bought in Australia, you can't change the language to German.Jul 12 05:32
EruaranYou can choose whatever you like in the install.. you can change the keyboard... but it will still say "Welcome" in English next time you boot.Jul 12 05:33
EruaranThe full image as a torrent is about 4GB to downloadJul 12 05:34
EruaranAnd we explained that it is proprietary software and we don't have a license for it and neither does she.Jul 12 05:34
twitterand people complained when an old, pre release debian's text install had some problems with right to left languages..  ha ahJul 12 05:34
EruaranSo we directed her to Ubuntu, with international language support that is second to none.Jul 12 05:34
twittercoolJul 12 05:35
EruaranWere still mainly doing Ubuntu because we find it is what works best for most home users who haven't used GNU/Linux before.Jul 12 05:35
EruaranPeople can pick it up very quickly.Jul 12 05:36
EruaranWe do a few tweaksJul 12 05:37
EruaranWe remove tomboyJul 12 05:37
Eruaran;)Jul 12 05:37
Eruaraninstall gnoteJul 12 05:37
Diablo-D3fucking mono shitJul 12 05:37
EruaranWe install Miro, beucase Miro is coolJul 12 05:38
EruaranAnd we install xchat-gnomeJul 12 05:38
Eruaranand we put it on the top panel for instant access to #ubuntuJul 12 05:38
EruaranCustomers love it when you show them the help channelJul 12 05:39
EruaranThey also love this:Jul 12 05:39
Eruaran"have you ever had friends over who use your computer and they always mess up your stuff and you dont want them messing on it ?"Jul 12 05:40
Eruaranthey say, "oh yeah"Jul 12 05:40
EruaranYou click on "Guest" and start a guest sessionJul 12 05:40
Eruaranand tell people your guest cant get access to your stuff, they can do what they like in the guest sessionJul 12 05:40
Eruarancustomers are likeJul 12 05:40
Eruaran0_0Jul 12 05:40
Eruaranthe look on their faces is what I loveJul 12 05:41
twitterniceJul 12 05:41
Eruaranfor the average person who has only used Windows and is not a fanboy, its the most brilliant thingJul 12 05:42
twitterhow is kubuntu going?Jul 12 05:42
Eruaranwe still install it for peopleJul 12 05:42
EruaranBut nowhere near as many as UbuntuJul 12 05:42
Eruaranits mainly because of the package managerJul 12 05:42
twitterinteresting.Jul 12 05:42
twitter?Jul 12 05:42
EruaranWe love KDE 4.3Jul 12 05:43
EruaranBut KPackageKit is not a 'obvious' to average customersJul 12 05:43
twitterah, kubuntu has moved to 4?Jul 12 05:43
Eruaranits very niceJul 12 05:43
EruaranyesJul 12 05:43
twitteryou could install synaptic, but I see the point.Jul 12 05:43
EruaranUbuntu's Add/Remove is better for the average joeJul 12 05:43
twittermy wife used gnome 1 for years and was happy.Jul 12 05:44
twittergnome 2 bugs us both and she's a kde user now.Jul 12 05:44
EruaranIf KPackageKit just adds a bit more description in the package listings to make it easier for "joe average" to highlight the main package he wants - then it would be sweet.Jul 12 05:44
twitterI have to admit there's a lot to gnome 2 that is newbie friendly, if annoying.Jul 12 05:45
EruaranyesJul 12 05:45
Eruaranthats why we end up using itJul 12 05:45
twitterthings like pop up notifications bug me, but newbies would never know otherwise.Jul 12 05:45
Eruaranalthough, KDE 4.3 is so nice its temptingJul 12 05:45
Eruaranthe new notifications in Ubuntu 9.04 are very niceJul 12 05:46
twitterUbuntu has made some changes from the default gnome desk's file managment that make is a little more bearable, I think.Jul 12 05:46
Eruaransimple, works well, looks nice, newbie friendlyJul 12 05:46
EruaranyesJul 12 05:46
EruaranFor myself I use KDEJul 12 05:46
EruaranAnd for users who are a little more familiar with Linux package management I say, "OMG KDE IS TEH RUELZ"Jul 12 05:47
twitterI cherry pick.Jul 12 05:47
EruaranBut for joe average... Ubuntu.Jul 12 05:47
twitterkio for konq is cool.Jul 12 05:47
EruaranyesJul 12 05:47
twitterI used to use apt-cache or google for package search.Jul 12 05:47
twitternow I use apt:/Jul 12 05:47
EruaranI'm going to do a "starters booklet" or somethingJul 12 05:48
EruaranFor new Ubuntu users.Jul 12 05:48
twitterit does not start install, but it is easier to look through listsJul 12 05:48
twitterdon't they have a starter html?Jul 12 05:48
EruaranWill save me 15 - 30 minutes explaining things to people.Jul 12 05:49
twitterI know Mepis has a starter dialogJul 12 05:49
EruaranJust by trial I've learned what is most important for newbies to pick up quickly.Jul 12 05:49
EruaranGeneral desktop familiarization, Package Management, and where to find help.Jul 12 05:49
twitterdon't forget email importJul 12 05:49
Eruaranoh yeaJul 12 05:49
Eruaran:PJul 12 05:49
Eruaranyes I'll get onto that as wellJul 12 05:50
twitteryou might just do it for your customers as a serviceJul 12 05:50
EruaranOn new computers I doJul 12 05:50
Eruaranemail from their old pcJul 12 05:51
twitterbut as a volunteer it was important to teachJul 12 05:51
Eruaranwith each new linux user I spend a bit of time going through things with them before they take it homeJul 12 05:51
twitterI think that just about covers the survival stuff.Jul 12 05:51
twitterpart of where to get help includes showing them included documentation, but the IRC bit is very smart.Jul 12 05:52
Eruaranits the difference between a happy customer who quickly feels at home with their new system, and a customer who quickly becomes frustrated because they are lost.Jul 12 05:52
twitter15 minutes of guided use makes the difference.  :)Jul 12 05:52
Eruaranthe survival stuff is the most importantJul 12 05:52
EruaranyesJul 12 05:52
EruaranWe show people how to use UbottuJul 12 05:54
EruaranPeople love thatJul 12 05:54
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EruaranIts very satisfying when you have happy new Linux customersJul 12 05:56
EruaranWe had one lady where we gave her a dual boot XP/Ubuntu setupJul 12 05:57
EruaranHer mother came in and asked for Ubuntu, her brother in law and a friend of theirs as well.. all came in requesting Ubuntu installs.Jul 12 05:57
EruaranWhen you do it right, its a growing market. ;)Jul 12 05:58
EruaranI can't stress to people in the industry enough that when you do it right, the feedback you get from customers is tremendously positive. And demand grows.Jul 12 06:02
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twittermegapixels of creepy resolution 12 06:31
Omar871Hi allJul 12 06:31
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fewayeah miro is awesomeJul 12 06:57
fewasuper easy to use for peopleJul 12 06:58
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twitterHa ha.  Man who "managed to avoid the Vista disaster" is put in charge of Vista 7 -> 12 07:43
twitterM$, there's no place there to hide from disaster.Jul 12 07:43
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twitterHa ha, computer world and the SPI don't diddle over where blame for LSE failures should be laid. 12 08:03
twitter->  Though the LSE denied the outage was caused by the TradElect system, it is widely believed in London trading circles that the problem was the Windows-based platform, Computer World reported.Jul 12 08:04
twitterSplat.  Stating the obvious.Jul 12 08:04
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yuhongPeer-to-Peer has just shut down.Jul 12 08:08
yuhong 12 08:09
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Guest_327Peer-to-PatentJul 12 08:10
twitter-> But last week, the Financial Times reported, the LSE "appears set" to dump the Windows-based system.aJul 12 08:13
twitter 12 08:13
Guest_327I read they applied a fix and it solved it, but im not sure.Jul 12 08:14
twitterfixed by GNU/Linux.Jul 12 08:14
twitter->  Ajay Shah, a senior fellow at the National Institute for Public Finance and Policy in New Delhi, India, pointed out in a blog post that the LSE ranks much lower in trades per second. Based on official numbers, Shah estimated the LSE executes about 30 trades per second - the New York Stock Exchange does an estimated 590 per second.Jul 12 08:15
twitterSPI did not mess around with blame games like trolls on BN did.Jul 12 08:15
Guest_327NYSE is MUCH larger yesJul 12 08:15
Guest_327"A spokesman for the exchange told "It was a software issue relating to connectivity where two unpredictable events coincided and the fix now prevents these two things happening at the same time. As it is not a hardware issue, the outage was not related to volumes and that is the reason why we did not automatically switch to a backup site.""Jul 12 08:20
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Guest_327arnt most events unpredictable :) ??Jul 12 08:21
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twitterhere you go. 12 08:25
twitterJust like Roy said, the failure was M$'s.  GNU/Linux exchanges handle an order of magnitude more trades without problems, so that's probably where the LSE is going.Jul 12 08:27
_GoblinhelloJul 12 08:28
_GoblinallJul 12 08:28
twitterbonus info, the pictures of system calls for both GNU/Linux-Apache and Windows Server - IIS 12 08:29
twitterHello Goblin.Jul 12 08:29
twitterWe were just talking about a nice little article that does away with most of the M$ defense in comments to Roy's LSE failure article.Jul 12 08:31
twitterSee here 12 08:31
Diablo-D3lse?Jul 12 08:31
_Goblinah - Ive been away, not much time for IRC....reading nowJul 12 08:31
twitterThis stuff is easy and obvious but Lefty and EET tried so hard to spin it around and call Roy a liar.Jul 12 08:31
Guest_327london stock exchangeJul 12 08:31
twitterOh yeah.  The one pictured here:  mms:// 12 08:32
twitteranyone know how to download that mms crap?Jul 12 08:32
twitterKonq plays it without a hitch, but I did not see a way to save it.Jul 12 08:33
twitterI'm sure there are better clips of traders walking off the floor last september.Jul 12 08:34
Guest_327has the LSE made any announcement about dumping ms ?Jul 12 08:38
Diablo-D3twitter: oh thats easyJul 12 08:40
Diablo-D3mplayer -dumpstreamJul 12 08:40
Diablo-D3then look for a file named stream.out or somethingJul 12 08:40
twitterNone other than SPI dug up.Jul 12 08:43
twitterFunny, YouTube's "Get the Facts Video" is higher quality than the one hosted by M$ themselves as a WMV. 12 08:44
twitterSomeone should comment there about the recent failure facts.Jul 12 08:44
twitterBut then again, on 66 people had been interested enough to watch that excruciatingly boring advertisement.Jul 12 08:45
_Goblinoff topic: the latest Wine ver takes an eternity to compile :(Jul 12 08:46
twittersorry to hear that.Jul 12 08:47
_GoblinI'm damned if its going to beat me.Jul 12 08:47
twitterI wonder if OpenMosix works for compilingJul 12 08:47
_Goblinisnt that dead?Jul 12 08:48
twitterI don't know.  I'm sure you can get it if you want it.Jul 12 08:49
_GoblinI'm sure the project is dead....Jul 12 08:49
_Goblinshame....Jul 12 08:49
twitterI was reading about it just the other day.Jul 12 08:49
_Goblinjust found it on sourceforgeJul 12 08:50
twitteryes, the source is available to any one who wants it. 12 08:50
twitterwhat replaced it?Jul 12 08:50
_Goblinpass...Jul 12 08:51
_GoblinI'm busy assisting on a PSX project at the moment that has been ressurrected...Jul 12 08:51
_Goblinand I have many "in the pipeline" jobs, otherwise Openmosix seems pretty interesting....Jul 12 08:52
twitterHere's a list of "Instant" cluster CDsJul 12 08:53
twitter 12 08:53
_Goblinofftopic again: .25 of Wine is pretty impressive, its supporting some very advanced DX hacks...tested it with a few demo's of old....Jul 12 08:56
_Goblinits already years ahead of XPM..(IMO)Jul 12 08:57
_Goblinand I'm loving Wolvix (I wish I could remember which user here recommended it so I could credit them with the find)Jul 12 08:58
_Goblinthought of the day: Ubuntu will be the Vista of Linux (given time)Jul 12 09:04
_Goblinits only since I did an install of 9.04 for a nieghbour that I've been reminded what a bloated sluggish handholding distro it is....thats forgetting the cheeky little Mono infection which is subtle enough to bring a whole generation of ex-Windows users under the grasp of Microsoft once again.Jul 12 09:06
twitterI think it would take about a century for Ubuntu to become Vista.Jul 12 09:08
_Goblinthe only thing thats good in 9.04 is the boot time and even that is not really an improvement on #!CBL which is based on 8.10Jul 12 09:08
_Goblintrue twitter, but for a Linux distro it would be a Vista.Jul 12 09:08
_GoblinVista's Linux cousin so to speak.Jul 12 09:09
twitterSure, for an insect, it's an elephant.Jul 12 09:09
twitterThis is probably why people tell me that Wubi works so well.Jul 12 09:10
twitterThe elephant hardly notices the happy little penguins riding on it.Jul 12 09:10
Diablo-D3wtf is wubi again? (lol)Jul 12 09:10
_GoblinI am convinced that Ubuntu will be the distro of choice for all newcommers and users who don't want to learn linux, simply have one click fixes for everything.  This IMO will be the downfall of Ubuntu to the rest of the community and why in a few years time instead of laughing at Microsofts inability to get a decent OS on the shelves, we will be firing that at Canonical (IMO)Jul 12 09:11
_Goblinand I can't understand why Mandriva still gets overlooked for Ubuntu.Jul 12 09:11
twitterAs long as M$ is still non free, we will be able to cry about their incompetence.Jul 12 09:12
Diablo-D3ms should go free, to be honestJul 12 09:12
_GoblinI think MS's future is in custom software solutions for Enterprise....Jul 12 09:12
twitterI'm not concerned about Canonical one way or another.  They seem to be doing well.Jul 12 09:13
Diablo-D3_Goblin: so why didnt they just buy sunJul 12 09:13
Diablo-D3fucking moronsJul 12 09:13
twitterMepis is another nice, easy distro.Jul 12 09:13
Diablo-D3ibm is probably going to buy oracle nowJul 12 09:13
_GoblinMS and Sun?  what about the OO issue?Jul 12 09:13
_Goblinmonopolies etc....Jul 12 09:14
twitterODF will be used by people with a clue.Jul 12 09:14
_Goblintrue twitter.Jul 12 09:14
_Goblintheres no doubt in my mind Openoffice will be the destroyer of MS office...Jul 12 09:14
twitterM$ is running out of money to buy shills and government corruption.  M$ Office can use ODF too, if they want.Jul 12 09:15
Guest_327what does it do that msoffice does not ?Jul 12 09:15
_Goblinalthough personally I love Abiword and have no need of an office suite...Jul 12 09:15
_Goblinguest_327: Nothing really, except it does the same and its free.  Thats the point.Jul 12 09:15
twitterIt's what M$ Office never has done, preserve your documents in a machine independent way.Jul 12 09:15
_Goblinmind you if you want to pay for it guest, Ill sell you a copy of OO for £200....if it makes you feel better.Jul 12 09:16
twitterOOXML is contradictory and incomplete because .DOC was.Jul 12 09:16
_Goblinagreed completely.Jul 12 09:17
_Goblinbrb smoke time.Jul 12 09:17
twittertwitter sleepsJul 12 09:17
Diablo-D3[04:32:36] <_Goblin> MS and Sun?  what about the OO issue?Jul 12 09:19
Diablo-D3there isnt oneJul 12 09:19
Diablo-D3oo is an open source projectJul 12 09:19
Diablo-D3sun would officially drop itJul 12 09:19
_Goblinback.Jul 12 09:21
_Goblinif MS owned sun, how would that be interpretted?Jul 12 09:22
Diablo-D3synergistic technology integration.Jul 12 09:22
_Goblinsince MS is in trouble for merely bundling a browser in their own OS....Jul 12 09:22
Diablo-D3java would endJul 12 09:22
_Goblinand now having to release a E version of windows.Jul 12 09:22
Diablo-D3all the good parts would be in .net 5Jul 12 09:22
_Goblinas well as presumably a fine.Jul 12 09:22
Diablo-D3java would be an officially supported .net languageJul 12 09:23
Diablo-D3and they'd teach their .net framework to also load java bytecodeJul 12 09:23
Guest_327if MS really wanted to split FOSS, they would have bought SUN, but mabey they would not be allowed to for anti-compettive thingsJul 12 09:23
Diablo-D3they'd also be in the server hardware businessJul 12 09:23
_GoblinIm sure jo shields would be ephoric about that...Jul 12 09:23
Diablo-D3they dont care about the DOJJul 12 09:23
Diablo-D3I also do not care about the DOJ, they refuse to do squat shitJul 12 09:23
_Goblinfinally..........compile finished...Jul 12 09:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Mint 7 Gets Wonderful Reviews 12 09:25
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nokia Said to be Turning to Android Phones at Symbians Expense 12 09:47
_Goblinwine --versionJul 12 09:50
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UK Charity Embraces Free Software 12 09:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Brazilian President Puts His ODF Hat on 12 09:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Symbian Embraces the In Inevitable: Free/Open Source World 12 10:00
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FreeBSD Success Shows That Free Operating Systems Go Beyond Linux 12 10:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Company Created by ex-Microsoft Employee Uses 'Secret' Numbers to Vilify GPL 12 10:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple Stands in the Way of Web Standards -- Again 12 10:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Obama Owns His Own Face, But AP Claims Otherwise 12 10:18
schestowitzIt's conspiring ratherJul 12 10:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Cory: ISPs Should be Punished for Colluding with Hollywood 12 10:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Could EFF or FSF Sue Microsoft for Slander with Patents? 12 10:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Kentucky Citizens Pay for Windows Failure 12 10:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Bribes Bloggers Debate is Revisited 12 10:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Signs That Vista 7 Will be Another Vista 12 10:29
_GoblinoopsJul 12 10:34
schestowitzI used PCLinuxOS 2009 for almost a week (very little though)Jul 12 10:36
schestowitzMint is to Ubuntu what PCLOS is to Mandriva. Great for many users. It has codecs, Flash on the Live CD, it has a nice look and feel, Mandriva's control front ends... probably a better Mandriva than Mandriva.Jul 12 10:36
schestowitz_Goblin: you should try PCLOSJul 12 10:36
_GoblinWolvix has my love now!Jul 12 10:36
schestowitzSince you praised DrivaJul 12 10:36
schestowitzThere's also a 2009.1 out... days old.Jul 12 10:36
schestowitz_Goblin: that's good tooJul 12 10:37
schestowitzFrom a painter in Norway IIRCJul 12 10:37
schestowitz]Slackware based ... scaryJul 12 10:37
_Goblinthe family PC is Mandriva...Jul 12 10:37
_GoblinIll take a look at PCLOSJul 12 10:37
schestowitzTry PCLOS at some stage as well. They are almost the sameJul 12 10:37
schestowitzPCLOS comes with more stuff AFAICTJul 12 10:38
_GoblinIve got 4 other machines I can stick it on.Jul 12 10:38
schestowitzBut it doesn't support Mandriva as a companyJul 12 10:38
_Goblinjust about to compile UAE...Jul 12 10:39
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fewaSilva, the president of Brazil, used no prompter for his speech on Free SoftwareJul 12 11:09
fewathat guy is awesomeJul 12 11:09
fewa:PJul 12 11:09
schestowitzNice video: 12 11:14
schestowitzfewa: yes, seems so! They love him.Jul 12 11:14
fewaarggg my evolution stopped workingJul 12 11:21
fewait seg fault right when i start itJul 12 11:21
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schestowitzMaybe bad config files?Jul 12 11:32
schestowitzTry renaming .evolutionJul 12 11:32
Diablo-D3schestowitz: hey youJul 12 11:34
Diablo-D3you never answered my question from the other dayJul 12 11:34
Diablo-D3what language do you like using?Jul 12 11:34
schestowitzThese days i do bash/shell scriptingJul 12 11:35
schestowitzI used to do C/C++Jul 12 11:35
schestowitzWith Java I spent less than a year, so..Jul 12 11:36
Diablo-D3you should consider taking up java againJul 12 11:41
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schestowitzDiablo-D3: thanks. :-) I'm not programming much these days though.Jul 12 11:55
Diablo-D3you shouldJul 12 11:56
Diablo-D3no one listens to someone who doesnt programJul 12 11:56
schestowitzAgreed, but it would distract from my focus at this stageJul 12 12:03
Diablo-D3having political capital is always useful.Jul 12 12:03
Diablo-D3fighting microsoft is a game of politicsJul 12 12:04
schestowitz"YouTube is down for maintenance and will be back shortly." :-(Jul 12 12:09
Diablo-D3schestowitz: take my advice, program.Jul 12 12:09
schestowitzIt would limit my ability to keep informed of eventsJul 12 12:10
schestowitzLinus has the opposite syndromeJul 12 12:10
Diablo-D3You're overthinking it.Jul 12 12:10
Diablo-D3Program.Jul 12 12:10
schestowitzHe does not keep up with events other than Linux. It's a good thing until it comes to him facing software patents and other issues he suddenly admits he needs to learn aboutJul 12 12:11
schestowitzRMS stopped programming (not emacs, either)Jul 12 12:11
schestowitzLinus does not program much, either. He manages. He wrote about this in his blog.Jul 12 12:11
Diablo-D3Yes, but to become one of them, you must do it through programming.Jul 12 12:13
Diablo-D3Only people like them have any political clout in the FOSS world.Jul 12 12:13
Diablo-D3You are not one of them... yet.Jul 12 12:13
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schestowitzA lot of pundits have nothing to do with programmingJul 12 12:17
schestowitzThey have background in the arts or somethingJul 12 12:17
schestowitzOr EnglishJul 12 12:17
Diablo-D3pundits dont matter here.Jul 12 12:18
Diablo-D3the foss universe does not work like the rest of the worldJul 12 12:18
Diablo-D3write something specifically in java and make something people really want to useJul 12 12:21
schestowitzI made a unique program which uses Java for GUIJul 12 12:21
schestowitzBut it's scientificJul 12 12:22
Guest_327programmers are the only ones with any FOSS clout, they are the ones who own the code.Jul 12 12:22
schestowitzIt's not for broad useJul 12 12:22
Diablo-D3schestowitz: exactly, you need something....Jul 12 12:22
Diablo-D3you need something that goes beyond being interestingJul 12 12:22
Diablo-D3you need something that goes beyond that and becomes boring yet againJul 12 12:22
Diablo-D3you need something that becomes boring, every day, and ubiquitous.Jul 12 12:23
Diablo-D3this will give you the political power you need.Jul 12 12:23
schestowitzThere is no technical itchJul 12 12:25
schestowitzThe itch is to do with unethical workings in the software industryJul 12 12:26
schestowitzKnuth had a technical itchJul 12 12:26
schestowitzSo he took off and did Latex for a few yearsJul 12 12:26
Diablo-D3Then acquire a technical itch.Jul 12 12:26
schestowitzHmmmmmmm..* 12 12:27
Diablo-D3feh, I already read thatJul 12 12:28
schestowitzDiablo-D3: you can find one, not acquire oneJul 12 12:28
Diablo-D3ever take a look at redhat's balance sheet?Jul 12 12:28
Diablo-D3its great BUTJul 12 12:29
Diablo-D3they dont make enough profitJul 12 12:29
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Diablo-D3their RoE avg for the past 5 years is 10%Jul 12 12:29
Diablo-D3and their p/e is entirely too highJul 12 12:30
Diablo-D3they know what they're doing, but it'd be a poor investment at the current price.Jul 12 12:30
schestowitzRed Hat also buys back stock, but it's not a concernJul 12 12:30
schestowitzIBM depends on Linux development and others do too, so there will always be someone to built the 'GNU system'Jul 12 12:31
Diablo-D3to be fair, though, popular tech stocks have high p/esJul 12 12:31
Diablo-D3schestowitz: you know what the next big thing is?Jul 12 12:32
Diablo-D3the next generation linux desktopJul 12 12:32
Diablo-D3xorg is on it's way out, wayland is the most suitable replacementJul 12 12:32
Diablo-D3I fear mono may creep it's way into that end of the spectrum.Jul 12 12:32
schestowitzI think Red Hat does waylandJul 12 12:38
schestowitzMaybe Intel too is involvedJul 12 12:38
Diablo-D3They do.Jul 12 12:38
Diablo-D3And they areJul 12 12:38
schestowitzRed Hat does not mess with MonoJul 12 12:38
Diablo-D3schestowitz: I think you misunderstoodJul 12 12:39
Diablo-D3Mono will sneak it's tendrils into WaylandJul 12 12:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Executive Quits as Microsoft’s Startup Business Accelerator Shrinks 12 12:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Lenovo Wants GNU/Linux Users to Pay Microsoft for Imaginary Patents 12 13:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] An atheist asks theologians to put up or shut up: "evolutionary Christology" is the riposte to Dawkins, apparentlyJul 12 13:05
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Guest_327thank God for Atheist's !!Jul 12 13:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] IDG’s Microsoft Subnet Spreads Linux FUD, Cites Microsoft Pundits 12 13:31
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_Hicham_hi oiaohmJul 12 13:32
oiaohmHi _Hicham_Jul 12 13:33
schestowitzHeyJul 12 13:34
_Hicham_schestowitz : anything about the mono promise?Jul 12 13:34
schestowitzYes, I wrote 3 posts about itJul 12 13:35
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oiaohmThe mono promise don't make its technical issues dissappear.Jul 12 13:38
_Hicham_oiaohm : what technical issues?Jul 12 13:43
oiaohmSame technical issues that ended Java run at applications on desktop.Jul 12 13:45
oiaohmPoor intergration.  Leading to poor performance compared to native solutions.Jul 12 13:45
oiaohmMS created .net to beat java and has aquired the same problems.Jul 12 13:46
oiaohm  << I kinda expect .net to end up treated like this from java.Jul 12 13:50
oiaohmUnless they get on top the the intergration issue.Jul 12 13:50
oiaohmNice place to create prototypes but long term replaced by something else native.Jul 12 13:51
_Hicham_the project looking glass will not succeed i thinkJul 12 13:55
oiaohmIt hasJul 12 13:55
oiaohmIt is where compiz idea comes from _Hicham_Jul 12 13:55
_Hicham_when did it start ?Jul 12 13:55
oiaohmLooking glass was first displayed publically in 2003.Jul 12 13:57
oiaohmLooking glass project basically ending in 2007Jul 12 13:57
oiaohmcompiz and other things have been taking up its ideas.Jul 12 13:57
_Hicham_and when did compiz start ?Jul 12 13:57
oiaohm2006Jul 12 13:57
_Hicham_personally, I don't think of Java as a viable alternative to native solutionsJul 12 13:58
oiaohmNeither is .net.Jul 12 13:58
_Hicham_plus, If i was to use bytecode, I d prefer pythonJul 12 13:58
Guest_327The first version of Compiz was released as free software by Novell (SUSE) in January 2006 in the wake of the also new Xgl.Jul 12 13:59
_Hicham_python is 100% open-sourceJul 12 13:59
_Hicham_yes, Novell did great when they released compizJul 12 13:59
trmanco2.5D? I just learned something todayJul 12 13:59
trmanco:>Jul 12 13:59
_Hicham_trmanco : what did u learn?Jul 12 14:00
oiaohm2.5D is a nick name for 3d faked using 2d methods.Jul 12 14:00
trmancoI didn't know that 2.5D existedJul 12 14:00
oiaohmNote I said nick name.Jul 12 14:00
oiaohmIts not a offical name.Jul 12 14:01
oiaohmBecause techincally you cannot have half a demension.Jul 12 14:01
oiaohmIts a bit like tomboy vs gnote.Jul 12 14:02
oiaohmWhen compiz was first released lot of people from the Looking Glass camp raged on it.Jul 12 14:03
trmancoI seeJul 12 14:04
oiaohmHistory is repeating and lot of people don't know the history to see it.Jul 12 14:04
Guest_327that must mean we failed to learn the lesson the first time around !.Jul 12 14:05
oiaohmIf we learnt lessions first time around we would have less wars.Jul 12 14:06
oiaohmSimple fact humans don't learn first time around.  If lucky most likely 20 time around.Jul 12 14:07
Guest_327I dont really agree, I dont think that "all people are idiots".Jul 12 14:08
oiaohmLets take the first Iraq war.   History tells us what will happen if you leave a dictator in charage.   Lets disregard history and stop before killing problem.Jul 12 14:10
Guest_327yet, we happily let other dictators continue to lead, yes I knowJul 12 14:11
oiaohmOnce you have started attacking a dictator.Jul 12 14:12
oiaohmIf you don't finish job dictator will treat there people worse.Jul 12 14:12
oiaohmIn almost all cases through out history.Jul 12 14:12
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akira42hello folksJul 12 14:13
_GoblinhiJul 12 14:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Got a couple of episodes of Torchwood to catch up on....Jul 12 14:18
schestowitzHi, akira42 Jul 12 14:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gartner Group Pretends Only Microsoft Competes with VMware, Novell Helps Microsoft Too 12 14:25
_Hicham_openSUSE 11.2 will be one of the greatest releases ever doneJul 12 14:31
_Hicham_they are really doing a great jobJul 12 14:31
_Hicham_I don't know why Mandriva Control Center and Yast haven't been ported to other DistrosJul 12 14:31
_Hicham_If we can have a unified GUI config tools, we can spare a lot of linux fragmentationJul 12 14:32
_Hicham_a unified control center will ease the user's experienceJul 12 14:32
oiaohmThere have been many attempts a unified control center.Jul 12 14:34
oiaohmMost current is policykit.Jul 12 14:35
oiaohmWhat is more building a unified framework to build a unified control center on.Jul 12 14:35
Diablo-D3hehJul 12 14:37
Diablo-D3suse sucks, quit promoting a novell productJul 12 14:37
_Hicham_Diablo-D3 : SUSE sucks based on what?Jul 12 14:37
oiaohmyast is kinda heavy for what it does.Jul 12 14:38
_Hicham_oiaohm : yast haven't been retouched for yearsJul 12 14:38
Diablo-D3_Hicham_: well, they failed to base it on debianJul 12 14:39
Diablo-D3so its automatically an epic failureJul 12 14:39
_Hicham_how do u know?Jul 12 14:40
Diablo-D3[09:58:22] <Diablo-D3> _Hicham_: well, they failed to base it on debianJul 12 14:40
_Hicham_the yast4debian have been abondanded because of lack of interestJul 12 14:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] yesterday's firefox/gmail brokenness has cleared up. i suspect it was a symptom of running an ubuntu alpha. breakage happens.Jul 12 14:40
Diablo-D3yes, because we already have a superior package management systemJul 12 14:40
_Hicham_it is not only about package managementJul 12 14:41
Diablo-D3yes, its also the packaging policy, which debian's is also superiorJul 12 14:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] how to become an expert debian admin: run ubuntu alphas. you'll learn to fix everything along the way. everything.Jul 12 14:41
Diablo-D3wtf is bnc repeating?Jul 12 14:42
Diablo-D3because that david gerard guy is making a fool of himselfJul 12 14:42
Diablo-D3you run debian unstable for a decade and then you can call yourself an expert debian adminJul 12 14:42
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_Goblinisnt he just being flippant?Jul 12 14:43
_GoblinI think a little sarcasm in there aswell.Jul 12 14:43
Diablo-D3no, I suspect he may actually think thatJul 12 14:43
Diablo-D3and how the fuck did ubuntu fuck up firefoxJul 12 14:43
Diablo-D3its not like they have much in the way of patches that arent sourced from upstreamJul 12 14:44
_GoblinWouldn't know, but UAE refused to boot to a 68020 workbench for me so it wouldnt surprise me...Jul 12 14:44
oiaohm_Hicham_: webmin and usermin created in perl running a webbrowser takes less resources than yast to do a lot of things.   Really I would like something that made webmin and useradmin work on normal desktop without needing to run them as servers.Jul 12 14:45
Diablo-D3oiaohm: dudeJul 12 14:45
Guest_327how is webmin going, I have not used that for years,Jul 12 14:45
Diablo-D3Learn. To. Admin. Your. Machine. Faggot.Jul 12 14:46
_Goblinthats not very nice.Jul 12 14:46
Diablo-D3Expecting Linux to be Windows is not very niceJul 12 14:46
Diablo-D3I find it offensive tooJul 12 14:46
oiaohmFor newer users Diablo-D3.Jul 12 14:46
_Goblinand what does a scottish delecacy have to do with Linux?Jul 12 14:46
Diablo-D3_Goblin: I want to see your guts stuffed and on a plate.Jul 12 14:46
Diablo-D3oiaohm: DudeJul 12 14:47
Diablo-D3I came to linux to get away from themJul 12 14:47
Diablo-D3their "needs" always fuck shit upJul 12 14:47
Diablo-D3"oh, we only want to use a mouse! keyboards are so haaaaaaard!"Jul 12 14:47
Diablo-D3well go buy a fucking mac thenJul 12 14:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] freda had her first phone conversation! with liz. "hello diz" and "bye bye diz". she understands there are people in the phone now. :-DJul 12 14:48
_Goblindiablo-d3: my, we are a potty mouth today.Jul 12 14:48
Diablo-D3I like getting shit done, and when I get shit done, I like getting it done 10 times fasterJul 12 14:48
oiaohmSorry Diablo-D3 I have been using Linux since 1994.   I don't believe in the idea that everything has to be command line for everyone.Jul 12 14:48
Diablo-D3oiaohm: I've been using linux as my primary desktop osJul 12 14:49
oiaohmSome people are not safe to be let near configuration files without instructions.Jul 12 14:49
Diablo-D3erJul 12 14:49
Diablo-D3oiaohm: I've been using linux as my primary desktop os for over a decadeJul 12 14:49
_Goblinwow - well thats me impressed.Jul 12 14:49
oiaohmNote since 1994 as a desktop by the way Diablo-D3Jul 12 14:49
Diablo-D3Im just saying oiaohmJul 12 14:49
Diablo-D3you and I have been around foreverJul 12 14:49
Diablo-D3linux does not need to fag itself up like windows hasJul 12 14:50
_GoblinIs this a how old are you competition?  Can I join in?Jul 12 14:50
Diablo-D3I do stuff almost exclusively in a terminal.Jul 12 14:50
oiaohmYet it does not need to be nasty to end users.Jul 12 14:50
Diablo-D3oiaohm: but thats the problemJul 12 14:50
Diablo-D3look at osxJul 12 14:50
Guest_327How old _Goblin ??Jul 12 14:50
Diablo-D3it didnt intentionally piss me offJul 12 14:50
oiaohmNot everyone is going to be a command line person.Jul 12 14:50
_Goblin36.97Jul 12 14:50
Diablo-D3but it has really gimped the way worksJul 12 14:50
Diablo-D3_Goblin: wtf, you're ancientJul 12 14:51
Guest_327pup LOLJul 12 14:51
_GoblinI win then.Jul 12 14:51
Diablo-D3I'm 26Jul 12 14:51
oiaohmI use a mixture of webmin and terminal.Jul 12 14:51
Diablo-D3I never use webminJul 12 14:51
_Goblinso then the "forever" comment was a little wrong?Jul 12 14:51
Diablo-D3_Goblin: not at allJul 12 14:51
oiaohmwebmin is particularly handy at times on mult machine management.Jul 12 14:51
Diablo-D399% of linux users came after usJul 12 14:51
_Goblinah......Jul 12 14:52
Diablo-D3me and oiaohm remember when we could count linux users on one handJul 12 14:52
_GoblinI know you cant see me but I'm standing here in awe....really I am...Jul 12 14:52
Guest_327now theres the sarcasm :)Jul 12 14:52
Diablo-D3seriously though, I dont like GUIsJul 12 14:52
_Goblin:)Jul 12 14:52
oiaohmI remember hearing about Linux in 1992 when I was using BSD for things.Jul 12 14:52
Diablo-D3I never willJul 12 14:52
oiaohmSome people will be like you Diablo-D3.Jul 12 14:52
Diablo-D3I mean, you guys have to like select files and then drag them to somewhere to move themJul 12 14:52
Diablo-D3you know what I do?Jul 12 14:53
_GoblinI remember going to Summerslam at Wembly in 1992...whats the point?Jul 12 14:53
Diablo-D3mv shit elsewhereJul 12 14:53
Diablo-D3tada!Jul 12 14:53
oiaohmI don't mind gui's.Jul 12 14:53
Guest_327I was using the internet before there was one, and we'll before there were browsers and "the web".Jul 12 14:53
oiaohmParticualarly when they are well done.Jul 12 14:53
Guest_327if you didn't know command line, FTP and telnet you were screwedJul 12 14:53
oiaohmSo you remember using good old gopherJul 12 14:53
_Goblinwell thats nothing guest...I was around when Moses placed the 10 commandments into the arkJul 12 14:53
Guest_327yesJul 12 14:53
Guest_327and BBS'sJul 12 14:53
_Goblinthey were GPL by the way.Jul 12 14:54
Diablo-D3_Goblin: oh yeah?Jul 12 14:54
Diablo-D3IM GODJul 12 14:54
Diablo-D3I created the universeJul 12 14:54
_Goblinand I came before that.Jul 12 14:54
Diablo-D3I existed _before_ timeJul 12 14:54
_GoblinI got in first....I win.Jul 12 14:54
Diablo-D3so seriously thoughJul 12 14:54
Diablo-D3guis only work for some thingsJul 12 14:54
Guest_327how long "before time", ??Jul 12 14:54
Diablo-D3file management isnt one of themJul 12 14:54
Diablo-D3like, you know what really pissed me off about osx?Jul 12 14:54
Diablo-D3I had to double click on a folder named applicationsJul 12 14:55
oiaohmOS X dumbs the interfaces down.Jul 12 14:55
Diablo-D3then double click the applicationJul 12 14:55
Diablo-D3thats five clicks.Jul 12 14:55
Guest_327so dont use itJul 12 14:55
Guest_327problem solvedJul 12 14:55
Diablo-D3(yes, five, osx sometimes refused to double click when you double clicked on the folder before selecting it)Jul 12 14:55
Diablo-D310.5 finally ripped off quicksilver's alt-space shitJul 12 14:56
_GoblinI think the GUI removed the "eliteness" of computer use to many...I think many users still live in an age where the only computer hobbyists were the "l33t"Jul 12 14:56
Diablo-D3so I could just alt-space then type the app name inJul 12 14:56
Diablo-D3so much fucking easierJul 12 14:56
Diablo-D3but I still cant execute complex commands with itJul 12 14:57
Diablo-D3so its kinda gimpedJul 12 14:57
_Goblinto me I dont care, where I draw the line is the ultra high level dev kits that allow anyone to be a dev at the expense of writing software that requires 4x as much processing power as it should and takes up 10x the space....Jul 12 14:57
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Guest_327no you have things called applications that do the complex stuff for you,Jul 12 14:57
oiaohmwebmin also makes my life lazy.   I don't need to remember where solarias bsd and many different distributions put there configurations for lot of common things.Jul 12 14:58
oiaohmThe advantage of a good configuration tool is reduced items you have to remember.   And less risk of making major errors.Jul 12 14:59
Diablo-D3but thats the thingJul 12 15:01
Diablo-D3I only use debianJul 12 15:01
Diablo-D3all other distros and operating systems simply are wrong.Jul 12 15:01
Guest_327the difference between an application like webmin and using the command line you can incorporate more safety and error checking using an appplication, but with a command line its  more of a risk with no checkingJul 12 15:01
_GoblinSorry can I make a quick correction:Jul 12 15:02
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Guest_327there are alot of good operating systems out there.Jul 12 15:02
_GoblinFaggots, or savoury ducks as they are called in some parts of Britain are thought to be of Roman origin. Faggots can be left until cold, if desired, then broken apart and reheated in a tin.Jul 12 15:02
_GoblinSo the Romans invented them, not the scottish....sorry guys.Jul 12 15:02
oiaohmDiablo-D3: difference between you and me.   I am a broad OS using admin.   So I do like good gui tools.   I will be truthful there are not many good configuration tools out there.Jul 12 15:03
Guest_327I thought they were a bunch of sticks tied up with string "a faggot of sticks"Jul 12 15:03
_Goblinyeah thats another one...Jul 12 15:03
_GoblinI used to like faggots..Jul 12 15:03
_Goblinthey give me heartburn now.Jul 12 15:03
_GoblinDiablo: Whats your distro of choice?Jul 12 15:04
Guest_327whats the spelling of the food one, I would have guessed it was "fagette"Jul 12 15:04
oiaohmMost common mistake is requiring admins to hit advance buttons all the time and never having a option always open in advance mode.  Ie I am an admin I know what I am doing I don't need to be protected from seeing options.Jul 12 15:04 is faggot: 12 15:05
oiaohmOne day for the hell of it I have to run webmin under windows.Jul 12 15:05
Guest_327A good admin and configuration application will have version control, config settings saving and re-call, and basic security /error checking.Jul 12 15:05
oiaohmIf you mean file version control ie snapshots on filesystem to roll back to webmin is missing.  But you can using configuration saving option.   basic secuirty/error checking feature is not in webmin and but I do threw other tools.Jul 12 15:08
Guest_327ok, I dont remember it being in Webmin when I used it either, that said I also think a well written stardard Bash script file will also work, but webmin is convienentJul 12 15:10
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oiaohmCluster user and system configuring of webmin is handy even accross different OS's.Jul 12 15:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Microsoft Gags Dissenters and Bribes or Rewards Supporters 12 15:21
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Diablo-D3[10:23:24] <_Goblin> Diablo: Whats your distro of choice?Jul 12 15:51
Diablo-D3debianJul 12 15:51
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schestowitzbblJul 12 16:16
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Has successfully configured Synergy! :DJul 12 16:43
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] O SR.Lula é que tem juizo -> 12 17:04
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] just filled bookshelf. enough room now in older teen's room to see long-missing crockery on floor. hrmm.Jul 12 18:11
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schestowitz "No, I did not read the "fine" article. Based on the title and the blurb this seems to be part and parcel of SJVN's attitude after the Microsot and Novell announced their deal which exploited a loophole they had found in GPLv2: What, me worry? It's a wonderful day in the Microsoft neighborhood!"Jul 12 18:37
schestowitzSJVN has been /so/ consistent with his opinion on MS/NovellJul 12 18:37
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twitterHmm, I just noticed some funny business with my Slashdot journal.Jul 12 19:08
twitterFirst, all the icons had changed from what I set them to to AMD.  I'd dismiss that as some kind of system thing if it were not for my listing of accepted stories icon being changed to "PC Games"Jul 12 19:09
twitterI corrected the listing back to the default "user journal" icon.Jul 12 19:09
twitterI also noticed a story fell out of the listing. 12 19:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mono Roundup: Microsoft Following, Deception, and the Moonlight ‘Extend’ Phase 12 19:14
schestowitzSlashdot allows itself to be gamedJul 12 19:14
schestowitzIt should at least talk openly about how PR agents game itJul 12 19:14
schestowitzThough it would ruin the site's credibilityJul 12 19:15
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twitterLooks like someone was playing games.Jul 12 19:19
twitterThese things were mine and a good reference for everyone.Jul 12 19:20
twitterThose icons should not have changed and I'm reasonably sure that I found every one of my published stories from 2007.Jul 12 19:20
twitterHere's an example with a flipped icon. 12 19:20
twitterI've changed my admittedly weak password but I'm not sure that will fix things.Jul 12 19:21
twitterWhat I'm saying is that someone figured out how to be me on Slashdot.Jul 12 19:21
twitterThey started with subtle things, now I have to watch the comments.Jul 12 19:22
twitterNothing yet.Jul 12 19:22
twitterI'm not in a place where I can check old an old copy of my listing index or the Vista failure log for changes.Jul 12 19:23
schestowitzGroklaw protects readers from abuseJul 12 19:26
schestowitzBN is not good at that because nothing gets censoredJul 12 19:27
schestowitzSo some readers stopped commenting when the trolls attacked them in the comments, unchallengedJul 12 19:27
schestowitzThey try to turn blogs they don't like into zoos/cesspools, at least in the minds of passing readersJul 12 19:27
schestowitzI feel helpless when I can't help/defend others who are more sensitive (thin skin) to abuse from trollsJul 12 19:30
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twitterOK, the icon thing is a Slashdot problem.  I can see them fine like this 12 19:37
twitterbut they go away when looked at individually.Jul 12 19:37
twitterI'm going back trough submissions to see if anything else was missed or fell off.Jul 12 19:38
twitterOh yeah, credibility is only lost when you don't tell the truth.Jul 12 19:38
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schestowitzBN is a glass boxJul 12 19:53
schestowitzEven communication is done via public IRCJul 12 19:53
twitteryes, so?Jul 12 19:53
schestowitzSo it is open to inspection, yet no-one is able to scrutinise it effectivelyJul 12 19:53
twitterwhat do you mean?Jul 12 19:54
schestowitzMany people read these logsJul 12 19:54
schestowitzPeople who hate the siteJul 12 19:54
schestowitzScanning it for dirtJul 12 19:54
schestowitzThey come up with nothing of useJul 12 19:54
twitterhad to go look up scrutiniseJul 12 19:54
twitteryou used it right, :)Jul 12 19:55
twitterwordnet, "to look at critically or searchingly, or in minute detail"Jul 12 19:55
twitterIt's hard to find dirt on honest people.  That's why the only thing they can do is nit pick useless detailsJul 12 19:56
twittertry to blow them out or proportion.Jul 12 19:56
schestowitzHmmmmm... my site's downJul 12 19:56
twitterLike calling RMS a sexist.Jul 12 19:57
schestowitzThe whole server in factJul 12 19:57
twitterohJul 12 19:57
schestowitzI've seen RMS accused of endorsing pedophiliaJul 12 19:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin: A Round-Up 12 19:57
schestowitzPeople have their eyes on him all the time trying to scoop up dirtJul 12 19:57
schestowitzMicrosoft uses fronts like CompTIA to do the smears against him tooJul 12 19:57
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twitterDemonstration of RFID reading at 20 feet, US Passports in public.  ->Fox News has an AP story on a SF hacker driving around and needing as little as 20 minutes to be successful in acquiring a passport number: 'Zipping past Fisherman's Wharf, his scanner detected, then downloaded to his laptop, the unique serial numbers of two pedestrians' electronic US passport cards embedded with radio frequency identification, or RFID, tags. WithiJul 12 20:07
twitter 12 20:07
twitterpeople said so, now they demonstrate.  Duplication has been previously demonstrated.Jul 12 20:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft discourages game porting to GNU/Linux using lies about market share. 12 20:09
schestowitzBN in cnet:Jul 12 20:14
schestowitz"Eventually, Windows grew to such heft that the market, including Microsoft partners, started looking for open alternatives, causing then Microsoft chairman Bill Gates to dub Linux Microsoft's "most potent operating system competitor.""Jul 12 20:14
schestowitz"The "good enough" operating system that performed certain tasks much more efficiently and powerfully than Windows has now grown to seriously threaten Microsoft in a range of applications and markets." 12 20:14
twitter:)Jul 12 20:16
twitterI see that you liked the Vista 7 toilet baby image.  I missed that yesterday for some reason.Jul 12 20:16
schestowitzThanks, I used it.Jul 12 20:20
schestowitzStill got to catch up with old newJul 12 20:20
schestowitz*newsJul 12 20:21
twitterhurrah, I now can view junk like cnet again.Jul 12 20:21
twitterssh -X forward from testing my version 4 or konq.Jul 12 20:22
twitterUgh, Matt Assay does not understand freedom and gets confused.  No useful information about freedom can be gained by looking at PalmOS and iPhone on smart phones.  Both are non free software with the additional burden of spectrum ownership.Jul 12 20:26
twitterATT and friends won't have anything to do with software freedom on the spectrum they bought.Jul 12 20:27
twitterOh, the confusion from  O'Reilly Radar, that explains it.Jul 12 20:27
twitterhmmm, X forwarding is a wonderful and risk free way to mix KDE 3.5 and KDE 4.Jul 12 20:28
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twitterAssay is clueless about the reasons for iPhone success.Jul 12 20:31
twitterPeople don't buy iPhones for the apps.   They buy them for persistent internet and email, things people have been dreaming about for more than a decade with their laptops.Jul 12 20:32
twitterApple got their practically with OSX, the child of Next and a lot of free software, on ARM.Jul 12 20:33
twitterApple has successfully harnessed BSD.Jul 12 20:34
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twitterand they have made their version fiercely  proprietaryJul 12 20:35
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twitterOh well, it is nice he cites BN for more correct history about M$ and GNU/Linux.Jul 12 20:35
schestowitz Inside Today's Falling IT Salary Levels < >Jul 12 20:35
schestowitzComments here still just hostile t/w mono: 12 20:37
schestowitzAsay is not our foeJul 12 20:37
schestowitzHe's still on our side for the most part. The Apple obsession is hopefully a passing fadJul 12 20:38
twitterNo, but he does seem to be confused.Jul 12 20:38
twitterIt is important to understand what is successful and why.Jul 12 20:39
twitteriPhone has a lot of satisfied users.  There is some degree of excellence to the interface.Jul 12 20:39
twitterThe excellent portions should be copied and used.Jul 12 20:39
twitterThe difference between GPE on my Zaurus from five years ago and the iPhone is slight.Jul 12 20:40
twitteriPhone has accelerated graphics and uses it effectively.Jul 12 20:40
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twitterAssay should understand that free software can and will do everything iPhone does but won't have a chance with companies like ATT.Jul 12 20:42
twitterHe should also realize that "paying the rent" is not what drives software innovation - it comes from sharing and freedom.Jul 12 20:43
fewathere is a distinction between those companies who sell the devices and those programmers who make the innovations that make such things possibleJul 12 20:45
twitterIf Assay understands these things and Open Spectrum, he can go from being someone who's "not a foe" to being someone who understands software and network freedom.Jul 12 20:45
twitter 12 20:45
fewabut we shouldnt really call it "innovation" cause that is just a trojan horse for software patentsJul 12 20:45
fewaIts a form of creativityJul 12 20:45
fewaand also sweat of the browJul 12 20:46
twitterinnovation, creativity, whatever you call it - it is not possible without freedom.Jul 12 20:46
twitterRestrictions harm creativity.Jul 12 20:46
twitterbblJul 12 20:46
schestowitzDevelopment sounds betteerJul 12 20:47
schestowitzRather than expression in art where creativity suits bettereJul 12 20:47
schestowitzIf someone invests a lamp, would you call him/her "Creative"?Jul 12 20:47
schestowitzIt's a lot of prior knowledge and some engineeringJul 12 20:47
schestowitz Write Your Own Linux Twitter Client In Less Time Than It Takes To Find One! < >Jul 12 20:48
schestowitzPython powaJul 12 20:48
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schestowitzOh! I think I know who runs http://mono-nono.comJul 12 21:01
schestowitzI suspected this all alongJul 12 21:01
schestowitzBut now I see a citationJul 12 21:01
schestowitzJason is the same Jason as "Ubuntu and Me"Jul 12 21:01
trmanco?Jul 12 21:02
trmancoI have his jabber emailJul 12 21:02
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trmancowtfJul 12 21:07
schestowitzHe came to IRC last weekJul 12 21:07
schestowitzI saw it in IRC logs (I was away)Jul 12 21:07
schestowitztrmanco: thank him if you catch him on IM. His research there will help our causeJul 12 21:08
trmancoschestowitz, I already did thatJul 12 21:08
trmancoI added him to thank himJul 12 21:08
trmanco:-)Jul 12 21:08
schestowitzI'm catching up with news quicker than I thought I couldJul 12 21:10
schestowitzI went offline  on an OK week cause of July 4thJul 12 21:10
schestowitzApart from Chrome and Monocrosoft there was not much to missJul 12 21:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Wow, they've automated gaydar. 12 21:13
schestowitz 12 21:13
schestowitz"Windows 7 on Netbooks will also not allow DVD playback (there's no drive), restricting video playback to wmv,and making use of non-MS codecs difficult, among a host of other things. IE will also be severely crippled." 12 21:14
schestowitzTurns out we made LT's FP when the site was on holdJul 12 21:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: It was amazing what she could do with her one good arm. 12 21:20
schestowitztrmanco: yes, it's almost obviously him.Jul 12 21:23
schestowitz 12 21:23
trmanco:-)Jul 12 21:23
schestowitzI recognise the links (antitrust) and I already knew ushib* (can't remember) was called Jason.Jul 12 21:23
schestowitzMaybe that's the new project that he spoke aboutJul 12 21:24
schestowitzHe's driving Shields up the wallJul 12 21:24
schestowitzThat site ought to keep Microsoft's UsefulIdiots busy replying frantically and thus less able to damage LinuxJul 12 21:25
schestowitzAutoKey Does Customized Text Replacement for Linux 12 21:27
schestowitzSutor's blog is becoming useless. Some randon links and house photos... 12 21:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] You'll go waltzing Matilda with me 12 21:40
twitterLaughing at Windows 7 not being able to play DVD on netbooks and their lame excuse.  I use a laptop without an optical drive for all my media, hooked to a projector it's first rate.Jul 12 21:42
twitterThat story is one for the Vista 7 fail log.Jul 12 21:43
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twitteroh, it's a comment.Jul 12 21:44
schestowitzThe Desktop is to be Dapper No More 12 21:46
twitterworth tracking down if true.  I know Vista was a huge media failure, thanks to DRM and non free codec use. 12 21:47
schestowitzNot only thatJul 12 21:50
schestowitzPeople tried itJul 12 21:50
schestowitzNot enthusiastsJul 12 21:50
schestowitzNor bribed bloggersJul 12 21:50
schestowitzReal peopleJul 12 21:51
schestowitzWith average PCsJul 12 21:51
schestowitzAnd Vista plainly... well, suckedJul 12 21:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] It must a common routine for RMS to be attacked personally when his technical opinion seems threatening. 12 21:51
schestowitzVista got many awards for itJul 12 21:51
schestowitzNot of the good type. It got many #1s for things like "worst product of the year'Jul 12 21:51
schestowitzAnd on the 7th day, God created... well, nothing noteworthyJul 12 21:52
twitterI wonder if this will be included in the price of the Vista 7 "family pack"Jul 12 21:52
twitter 12 21:52
schestowitzHehe. I can't help LOLing at "family pack"Jul 12 21:53
schestowitzMandriva calls something "powerpack"Jul 12 21:53
schestowitzBut "family pack" sounds like something you get in KFC for a white trash family (no offense intended)Jul 12 21:53
twitternone taken here in Tacoma!Jul 12 21:54
schestowitz"Two family packs of Vista 7, please"Jul 12 21:54
schestowitz"Would you like fries with that?"Jul 12 21:54
schestowitz"No, thanks"Jul 12 21:54
schestowitz"Just the Vista 7"Jul 12 21:54
schestowitz"It comes in 6 flavours"Jul 12 21:55
schestowitz"Really?"Jul 12 21:55
schestowitz"yes"Jul 12 21:55
schestowitz"We change the amount of sugar"Jul 12 21:55
schestowitz"The cheapest one has no sugar"Jul 12 21:55
schestowitz"Just acids and water"Jul 12 21:55
schestowitz"But..."Jul 12 21:55
schestowitz"You can pay $399 and get the full taste"Jul 12 21:55
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twitterfamily sackJul 12 21:57
twitteras in robJul 12 21:57
twittermaking all your computers act like zune, no file transfer without fee.Jul 12 21:58
twitterYou just know that's the next level of stupidity from that company.Jul 12 21:58
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twitter"You can not copy that CD, it is copyright."Jul 12 21:59
schestowitzZune has a feature called "squirting"Jul 12 22:01
schestowitzMicrosoft's marketing people must have been on some heavy dopeJul 12 22:01
twitterYes, kioks will squirt advertising at you.Jul 12 22:01
twitterYou can't avoid that.Jul 12 22:02
schestowitzore on the Gartner attack: 12 22:02
twitterYour friends will be able to squirt files at you, but you can't keep them.Jul 12 22:02
schestowitzI think the Zune just squirted in its own diapers and it's about to go to ERJul 12 22:02
twitterThat is why they had to invent a new word for digital transfer.  It's not a copy and it's not sharing, it's squirting.Jul 12 22:02
schestowitzMicrosoft doesn't give a squirt about its customersJul 12 22:03
_GoblinlolJul 12 22:03
twitterI get 40,000 results for "DVD ripping" "windows 7"Jul 12 22:03
twitter 12 22:03
twitterHere's a typical result.  Advert heavy points to malware. 12 22:04
twitterhow can people stand to use such crap?Jul 12 22:05
schestowitzYou can't search  "windows 7"Jul 12 22:05
schestowitzIt's too genericJul 12 22:05
schestowitzLike search for "Apple"Jul 12 22:05
twitterThe results I got were specific to "DVD ripping"Jul 12 22:05
schestowitz"I'm gonna shut 7 windows in my house now"Jul 12 22:05
twitterthat's why I used two search phrases.Jul 12 22:06
twitter;-)Jul 12 22:06
twitterHere's one from 2008, claiming "legit" DVD ripping. 12 22:06
schestowitzripping. HaJul 12 22:07
schestowitzAs in "copying"Jul 12 22:07
schestowitzOr "duplicating"Jul 12 22:08
schestowitzThe word "ripping" could not have come from the Good GuysJul 12 22:08
schestowitzSo if I buy a CD from a band I like and put it on my PC to play in xmms, then I "rip" (like tear a piece of paper)? I don't think soJul 12 22:08
ThistleWebI dunno, if you plant the image that to rip a CD or DVD somehow damages it, like rips usually do in other contexts (clothes etc)Jul 12 22:09
schestowitzI back up or spread for my own useJul 12 22:09
twitterFrom that idiot cnet article ->  RealDVD adds some relevant bullet points to the equation. First off, it's legal: That's because the program retains the DVD copy-protection, and even adds a further layer of DRM to the files. (Real is standing on the precedent set by the Kaleidescape's 2007 court victory.) So you shouldn't have to sweat a prison term for copyright violation next time you're toting your laptop through airport securityJul 12 22:09
twitterI really hate how stupid these people are.Jul 12 22:09
schestowitzThistleWeb: "burn" would be OKJul 12 22:09
schestowitzThat would actually be the physical actionJul 12 22:09
twitterNo one thinks like that.Jul 12 22:09
schestowitzThe optical disc burned by laser beamsJul 12 22:10
schestowitzBut if you say "I rip this CD" it sounds badJul 12 22:10
schestowitzOr "pirate a song"Jul 12 22:10
ThistleWebif it sounds like it will damage it, some will not do itJul 12 22:10
schestowitzThese are works to avoid as would insistJul 12 22:10
schestowitzJust rap the CD ;-)Jul 12 22:11
ThistleWebwhich means they win by use of wordsJul 12 22:11
schestowitzKripJul 12 22:11
schestowitzLanguage adopted subconsciouslyJul 12 22:11
twitterwell, it's appropriate for commercial DVDs.  You have to rip the movie out of the encryption.Jul 12 22:11
schestowitzUnscrambleJul 12 22:11
schestowitzOr openJul 12 22:11
schestowitzWhy "rip"?Jul 12 22:11
ThistleWebdecryptJul 12 22:12
schestowitzI'd say they rip me off by working the CPU overtimeJul 12 22:12
twitterIt matches my level of anger at the company that made things so difficult.Jul 12 22:12
schestowitzAnd by preventing future playingJul 12 22:12
schestowitzBecause the algos and media change over timeJul 12 22:12
schestowitzNo encryption = portabilityJul 12 22:12
schestowitzSo I can move from generations of devicesJul 12 22:12
schestowitzCrypto=another layer of lockinJul 12 22:12
schestowitzWhat if all your mails were PGPs?Jul 12 22:13
schestowitzCould Google Desktop even index them?Jul 12 22:13
twitterGmail indexes encrypted email.Jul 12 22:13
schestowitzDRM is encryptionJul 12 22:13
schestowitzMDL is encryptionJul 12 22:13
schestowitzShannon's entropy tooJul 12 22:13
ThistleWebthe point here is that the entertainment industry have long relied on peeps rebuying their collection in the new format tape>cd, vhs>dvd>bluray so if you give them an easy way to tranfer stuff they bought to the new medium, they wont need to buy the same stuff they already boughtJul 12 22:13
twitterDRM is not publication.Jul 12 22:14
twitterit is restrictions, a fraud and that is a form of violence.Jul 12 22:14
twitterthey rob by deceitJul 12 22:14
twitterpeople have to do real work to buy their things again and again.Jul 12 22:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Proof of the harm of patents? 12 22:15
twitterPublishers really are at war against sharing.  They will put people in jail for it and would like to jail those who circumvent their violence.Jul 12 22:16
ThistleWebany corporation has one goal, to make moneyJul 12 22:17
ThistleWebthey spend their time building a portfolio which they believe should continue to fund their nest eggs for eternityJul 12 22:17
twitterWhen I decrypt a 2kb email, it is easy enough.  Decrypting a 2 GB movie takes a lot of work.  Encryption is a violent and terrible thing that was done to the movie and it was done to defraud the owner.Jul 12 22:18
ThistleWebwell, for the eternity of the suits in the boardroom (including their retired time), the mess they leave behind ain't their concernJul 12 22:19
twitteremail is encrypted to protect privacy and personal dignity.Jul 12 22:19
ThistleWebencryption is not a form of violenceJul 12 22:20
twittermore on RealRestrictions.  ->  you can rip the discs to an external USB hard drive and watch them on up to four other PCs on which you've installed the programJul 12 22:20
schestowitzMost of my mail is still sent as plain textJul 12 22:20
schestowitzThe issue is ubiquity of s/w for thisJul 12 22:20
schestowitzAnd had Linux spread (which the CIA would not want, obviously), then more people would have tools for privacyJul 12 22:20
twitterYes, most mail is like that because most people use Windows and M$ does not want you to have privacy.Jul 12 22:20
schestowitztessier had a discussion about this last yearJul 12 22:20
schestowitz--About giving everyone Thunderbird with PGP or somethingJul 12 22:21
ThistleWebnot just the CIAJul 12 22:21
schestowitzWell, it was symbolicJul 12 22:21
twitterYou can give people things but you can't make them use them.Jul 12 22:21
ThistleWebevery country likes their intel peeps to have accessJul 12 22:21
schestowitzThistleWeb: up in Yorkshire I hear we have a RAF base which is actually another US baseJul 12 22:21
twitterMy wife, for example, refuses to use a traditional mail client.Jul 12 22:21
schestowitzAnd they log all transatlantic E-mailJul 12 22:21
twitterFor her, email is not important enough to keep.Jul 12 22:22
schestowitzThat's what Prof. Chalmers Johnson saysJul 12 22:22
ThistleWebyeah there are a few of them left over from WWIIJul 12 22:22
tacone Tallken tessier tessier_ thenixedreport ThistleWeb trmanco twitter Jul 12 22:22
schestowitztwitter: to keep?Jul 12 22:22
schestowitzWell, it's kept at the nodesJul 12 22:22
twitterall she uses is gmail and hotmailJul 12 22:22
schestowitzPeeps think that E-mail is gone when they hit deleteJul 12 22:22
schestowitzBut Domino boxes will keep copiesJul 12 22:23
twittershe does not archive her email.  it's like IM to her.Jul 12 22:23
schestowitzLong retentionJul 12 22:23
ThistleWebit is gone......from their screensJul 12 22:23
schestowitzAnd it's usualyl still there in mboxJul 12 22:23
schestowitzUnless compactedJul 12 22:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] holy shit, this thing is actually only $48k. 12 22:23
schestowitzSame with file deletion that removes just a pointer to itJul 12 22:23
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twitterYes, I know, others keep it.Jul 12 22:23
schestowitzIt's kept either wayJul 12 22:23
schestowitzOnce someone dispatches itJul 12 22:24
schestowitzWhen it's done, it's doneJul 12 22:24
schestowitzYou can't escape murder by washing your handsJul 12 22:24
schestowitzLikewise, you can't make E-mails disappear by deleting themJul 12 22:24
ThistleWebnah, you need lawyers and money for thatJul 12 22:24
schestowitzAnd if you spend too much time watching the wrong type of pages/videos, then be awarnedJul 12 22:24
schestowitzThey know what pages you visitJul 12 22:25
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schestowitzprovided you get flagged/monitoredJul 12 22:25
twitterSo you have to keep copies of everything for yourself, or others can fabricate and present portions unfarily.Jul 12 22:25
schestowitzHeh. Nice. 12 22:25
twitterBetter to encrypt everything so only you have the records.Jul 12 22:25
twitterAs things stand, only ISPs have the records for most peopleJul 12 22:26
twitterit is the opposite of privacyJul 12 22:26
schestowitzNot in the UKJul 12 22:26
schestowitzThey offshore phone and mail retention to a private companyJul 12 22:26
twitterOh yeah, in the UK the government get's a copy too.Jul 12 22:26
schestowitzContract for OrwellivrseJul 12 22:26
twitterLike I said, the very opposite of privacy.Jul 12 22:27
twitterYou have nothing, they have everything neatly organized.Jul 12 22:27
schestowitzSecurityJul 12 22:27
schestowitzFor themJul 12 22:27
schestowitzSupposedly for everyoneJul 12 22:27
twitterEveryone they like.Jul 12 22:27
schestowitzThey learned nothing from Stasi/SS, did they?Jul 12 22:27
schestowitz*tsJul 12 22:27
twitterGot it better.Jul 12 22:27
twitterpaper records suckJul 12 22:28
twitterwith voice recognition being done by "smart" phones themselves, there's little difference between email and phone conversations for privacy invasion.Jul 12 22:29
twittereverything you say can be neatly scanned, organized and searched.Jul 12 22:29
schestowitz s/can/does/Jul 12 22:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Crushes Microsoft Monopolies 12 22:30
twitterencryption brings a small measure of protection.Jul 12 22:30
schestowitzPhones tooJul 12 22:30
schestowitzSurveillance+logsJul 12 22:30
schestowitzit's like CCTV tapes. There's a retention cycleJul 12 22:30
schestowitzProbably varies depending on who you are. Flagged people = permanent logJul 12 22:30
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Increasing Popularity of GNU/Linux Leads to New Site 12 22:32
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twitterWell, one things for sure.  The commenter was right about DVD playback.  Windows 7 won't be able to do that without an optical drive.Jul 12 22:32
twitterI'd forgotten how stupid and restricted the Windows world was about this.Jul 12 22:33
twitterYet people act as if Windows is the only way to watch movies and other media.  It's completely backward.Jul 12 22:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Common Lies About GNU/Linux Systematically Addressed 12 22:34
schestowitzForward to HollywoodJul 12 22:34
schestowitzThe goal is to serve mogulsJul 12 22:34
schestowitzThe goal is not to serve computer usersJul 12 22:35
schestowitzMicrosoft's customers are OEMs, Hollywood, etc.Jul 12 22:35
schestowitzThe users are just 'side effects'. They buy computers with what the OEM was forced to buy from MSJul 12 22:35
twitterThe odd story of DVD X Copy 12 22:36
twitterI wonder what's being offered at the web site when the "official" company was shut down in 2004.Jul 12 22:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Beats Vista 7 and Windows XP by a Huge Margin 12 22:37
fewa 12 22:37
fewa 12 22:38
twitterThese are the insulting options offered to people who want to watch DVDs on their Windows computers:  pay money and be subject to stupid restrictions like 4 computer sharing, or take your chances with malware.Jul 12 22:38
fewa 12 22:39
twitterlike that Howard article.Jul 12 22:40
fewayep, Windows performance is an oxymoronJul 12 22:41
schestowitzWindows 'performs' when it manages to sell you another new computerJul 12 22:41
schestowitzPerforms financiallyJul 12 22:41
fewaexactlyJul 12 22:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Complaints About GNU/Linux Usually Misguided 12 22:41
tessierYes, I am bummed that hardly anyone uses GPGJul 12 22:43
tessierLots of people worried about privacy but nobody willing to do anything about it.Jul 12 22:43
schestowitzI sometimes think it's made intentionally complicatedJul 12 22:45
schestowitzIt ensures only techies manage to use it after setupJul 12 22:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Developer Workstation Now Available for Online Test 12 22:45
schestowitzI met the enigmail developer here in Manc 3 years ago in the FSFE meeting. They did manage to simplify it A LOTJul 12 22:45
*Balrog_ is now known as BalrogJul 12 22:49
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Uberlists of Free Software for Large Companies 12 22:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fluendo Starts Releasing GNU/Linux Applications 12 22:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Unigine to Bring Game to GNU/Linux , Microsoft-funded IDC Lies to Discourage Porting 12 23:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wine 1.1.25 is Released with Many Improvements Windows becomes more obsoleteJul 12 23:03
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schestowitzHi, wallclimber Jul 12 23:06
schestowitzGot it.Jul 12 23:06
schestowitzStill catching up with news, but lining up COmes tooJul 12 23:07
wallclimberhi!  I just sent you about 6 emailsJul 12 23:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] O IceCat 3.5 já saiu @brunomiguelJul 12 23:07
schestowitzwallclimber: ha. That's more than my mom sends meJul 12 23:09
wallclimber:)Jul 12 23:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Win for KDE: Maemo Swaps to Qt 12 23:09
schestowitzAnd today there was actually teddy bears...Jul 12 23:09
schestowitzA family that raised a bear (presentation)Jul 12 23:09
schestowitzAnd blue whales (separateJul 12 23:09
wallclimberNo Ponies?Jul 12 23:09
schestowitzNoJul 12 23:09
wallclimber:(Jul 12 23:09
schestowitzNo unicorns eitherJul 12 23:09
wallclimberwell, no unicorns, no ponies is just sadJul 12 23:10
wallclimberteddy bears are nice thoughJul 12 23:11
wallclimber:)Jul 12 23:11
schestowitzI'll mail it to youJul 12 23:11
schestowitzI got just pc07378Jul 12 23:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] My favourite distro, Mandriva Linux One 2009.0 (KDE), is Reviewed ( 12 23:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's Linux Handsets Could Land in Dell 12 23:19
_Hicham_schestowitz : what about openSUSE ?Jul 12 23:20
schestowitzWhat about it?Jul 12 23:21
schestowitzOh, favourite distro..Jul 12 23:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Smartphones with Free Software to Double -- Report 12 23:21
schestowitzOpenSUSE is green with envyJul 12 23:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's Linux O/S a Headache to Microsoft on Sub-notebooks 12 23:24
_Hicham_yast2-schestowitz-module-1.0-0.1.suse.i586.rpm : schestowitz configuration module for yastJul 12 23:24
twitterMandrake... nice package selection.  looks good.Jul 12 23:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vanilla CMS Chooses the Most Popular Licence, the GNU GPLv2 12 23:25
schestowitztwitter: try PCLinusOSJul 12 23:25
schestowitzI used it many times and it's greatJul 12 23:25
twitterI've seen PCLinuxJul 12 23:25
_Hicham_twitter uses plain Windows XPJul 12 23:26
_Hicham_and he loves itJul 12 23:26
twitterIt's nice but not nice enough to drag me from the comfort of Debian.Jul 12 23:26
schestowitzXP is a messJul 12 23:26
schestowitzI used it twice last week to access the Web and check mailJul 12 23:27
schestowitzUpon startups the browser would hand the whole OSJul 12 23:27
schestowitzFail on the first minuteJul 12 23:27
_Hicham_XP is the best system at MS LabsJul 12 23:27
schestowitzI actually enjoy seeing it despite the nuisanceJul 12 23:27
schestowitzIt reminds me why I should boot from CDJul 12 23:27
_Hicham_or from a USBJul 12 23:28
_Hicham_schestowitz : USB sticks are cheapJul 12 23:28
schestowitz_Hicham_: code monkeys rarely live in "Labs"Jul 12 23:28
schestowitzCall it a cage, OK? :-)Jul 12 23:28
_Hicham_install Mandriva on a USB stick, and u r doneJul 12 23:28
_Hicham_no more hassleJul 12 23:28
schestowitz_Hicham_: not all PCs would boot from USB, methinkgsJul 12 23:28
schestowitzNot the old one, methinksJul 12 23:29
twitterUSB boot is a cruel deception by BIOS makers.Jul 12 23:29
_Hicham_do u have a old PCs out there?Jul 12 23:29
_Hicham_I thought that we are the only ones to have themJul 12 23:29
twitterSometimes it works, sometimes it does not and it's never the same.Jul 12 23:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Cheers to @themadcatlady for #wikipedia pics! 12 23:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Importance of Free Software Licensing is Stressed 12 23:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz wine has a long way to go - the dib engine will be tricky, for example, tho there's a hacked-up versionJul 12 23:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Programming Awards for Free Software Developers Are Coming 12 23:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sarko and the Moguls Are Not Done with Copyright Gestapo Yet 12 23:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Thew Copyright Cartel Tries to Suffocate Legitimate Competition with Taxes 12 23:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz win32 is an unspeakable pile of crufty hacks that no-one would believe if it didn't exist. less "obsolete", more "undead"Jul 12 23:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Front Group (ACT) Tries to Push Software Patents into EU 12 23:39
twitterdavidgerard is putting it nicely.Jul 12 23:41
twitterI have to use XP every day.  It and applications on it are so painful.Jul 12 23:42
schestowitzYes, he knows wine wellJul 12 23:42
twitterI did a little win95 api programming, skipped MFC.Jul 12 23:42
twitterIt was not so awful, just terribly limited.Jul 12 23:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bilski Test Webcast 12 23:43
twitterI can see that XP and Vista are equally limited.Jul 12 23:43
twitterStuff just barely works.Jul 12 23:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ain't the Patent System Great? It Kills HIV Patients with Patents 12 23:45
twitterI'm more concerned by the poorly controlled use of antibiotics.Jul 12 23:46
twitterMany more people will die of the super bugs being bread by half administered drugs.Jul 12 23:47
twitterWe could find ourselves right back where we were at the beginning of the 20th century, where a scratch in the rose garden might kill you.Jul 12 23:47
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twitterAntibiotics themselves are cheap and trade laws ostensibly let countries violate patent for life saving drugs but few dare anger big pharmaJul 12 23:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FOSS People in New Zealand File to Block Software Patents [PDF] 12 23:49
twitterAh, I see, HIV is also gaining drug resistance the same way.Jul 12 23:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Mono Ambitions (Poisoning Linux) Turn to Dust, RMS Smeared 12 23:50
schestowitztwitter: some people dieJul 12 23:50
schestowitzNovotel or something..Jul 12 23:51
schestowitzCan't recall the company's name.. the one that drew protestsJul 12 23:51
schestowitzPatent unrest is huge nowJul 12 23:51
schestowitzThanks to the Internet that teaches sharing and allows free speech (in most places anyway)Jul 12 23:51
schestowitzbrbJul 12 23:56
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 12 23:59:23 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellJul 12 23:59
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jul 12 23:59
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 17:24:05 2009Jul 12 23:59
-ChanServ-You are not authorized to perform this operation.Jul 12 23:59
-ChanServ-You are not authorized to perform this operation.Jul 12 23:59
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelJul 12 23:59
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzJul 12 23:59

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