IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 14th, 2009

fewahttp://code.google.com/p/neatx/Jul 14 00:01
fewacoolJul 14 00:01
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_Goblingn all...Jul 14 00:17
_Goblinoh Roy btw..the podcast hasnt appeared on Linux Outlaws yet....maybe it will be tomorrow?Jul 14 00:18
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wallclimberI just read that UK kids aren't file sharing as much these days...lolJul 14 00:51
wallclimberhttp://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/07/13/report:-file-sharing-among-u.k.-teens-down-one-thirdJul 14 00:51
wallclimberAnd Microsoft is there to help...Jul 14 00:52
wallclimberhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10285467-56.htmlJul 14 00:52
schestowitzHeyJul 14 00:53
schestowitzThe kids here get branwashedJul 14 00:53
schestowitzMicrosoft participates in this, I kid you notJul 14 00:53
wallclimberConsidering how the RIAA (and friends) like to doctor (make up) statisticsJul 14 00:53
schestowitzThey tell investors that they brainwash kids to respect "IP"Jul 14 00:53
schestowitzSo we're surrounded by little dronesJul 14 00:53
schestowitzMeanwhile they secretly work on ACTAJul 14 00:54
wallclimberI think they've decided to make up stats that show how unpopular file sharing isJul 14 00:54
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schestowitzYou'll see what happens in a few years... elites fight to ensure people are not liberated through sharing and free speechJul 14 00:54
wallclimberif the kids hear it enough they'll believe it, right?Jul 14 00:54
schestowitzOh waitJul 14 00:54
_Hicham_vive schestowitz, the best journalist in the worldJul 14 00:54
schestowitz_Hicham_: no, wallclimber does all the hard work ;-)Jul 14 00:55
wallclimber:)Jul 14 00:55
_Hicham_hi wallclimberJul 14 00:55
wallclimberHi!Jul 14 00:55
schestowitz"The percentage of U.K. music fans who use file-sharing applications every month dropped by nearly a quarter between December 2007 and January 2009, according to a report from The Leading Question and Music Ally.Jul 14 00:55
schestowitz"Jul 14 00:55
schestowitzLOLJul 14 00:55
schestowitzHow is it measured?Jul 14 00:55
schestowitzDo they check how many kids swap USB disks?Jul 14 00:56
schestowitzOr *GASP* sing to one another?Jul 14 00:56
schestowitz_Hicham_: wallclimber helps a lot with ComesJul 14 00:56
wallclimberRoy does all the work I just help a little.Jul 14 00:56
schestowitzWatch the size of this: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/13/us-post-office-foss/Jul 14 00:57
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schestowitzI'm still catching up, so it takes up a lot of timeJul 14 00:57
wallclimberit'll be worth itJul 14 00:57
schestowitzwallclimber: "pirated"Jul 14 00:58
schestowitzThat 'report' has propaganda languageJul 14 00:58
schestowitzSo it's propagandaJul 14 00:58
schestowitzNothing credibleJul 14 00:58
wallclimberi know, it made me laugh...that's why I shared it.Jul 14 00:59
schestowitzYou also linked to the FredshillJul 14 00:59
schestowitzMicrosoft's PR puppet in CNETJul 14 00:59
wallclimberfredshill?Jul 14 00:59
schestowitzFriedJul 14 00:59
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wallclimberlol...ina?Jul 14 01:00
schestowitzUsefulIdiot or malicious accompliceJul 14 01:00
wallclimberIra?Jul 14 01:00
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schestowitzNoJul 14 01:00
schestowitzHeh. GershwinJul 14 01:00
schestowitzI've spend an hour an a half just watching galaxy vidsJul 14 01:00
wallclimberThat'd be Ira or George...Jul 14 01:00
wallclimberGershwinJul 14 01:01
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wallclimberok, I'm tired and feeling silly, guess i better go find food and leave the computers for a whileJul 14 01:01
schestowitzMeh.Jul 14 01:01
wallclimberi hate mondaysJul 14 01:01
schestowitzI'd post IRC logsJul 14 01:01
wallclimberi just check the temp on my big, screened-in, shady front porch and it's 103 degrees out thereJul 14 01:04
wallclimberugeJul 14 01:04
wallclimberi could make scrambled eggs on the sidewalkJul 14 01:05
wallclimberbye for now :)Jul 14 01:05
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*schestowitz feels like making scrambled eggs (no sidewalk though)Jul 14 01:08
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_Hicham_wb Senior taconeJul 14 01:11
taconei'll stay for little timeJul 14 01:12
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schestowitzEricsson set for significant South Korean splash-out  http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1433342/ericsson-set-significant-south-korean-splashJul 14 01:18
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schestowitzCya in the morning.Jul 14 01:36
_Hicham_tacone the taconerJul 14 01:42
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twitterforgot to leave this running all day.  anything interesting happen?Jul 14 02:11
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twitterFrom today's links -> Current Nvidia Linux drivers fully support (with the VDPAU API) hardware based decoding of mpeg2, VC1 and h.264 as offered by the ION chipJul 14 03:31
twitterI'm not sure I like that.Jul 14 03:32
twitterthe card then, is just another computer running non free software.  While it might be a little faster for those two tasks, it might not always do what I want.Jul 14 03:33
twitterVC1 and h.264, I believe are non free.Jul 14 03:33
twitterthey will add licensing costs to the hardware that I can do without.Jul 14 03:34
twitterthe kind of licensing costs that people have to pay when they buy a DVD player, for example, effectively doubles the cost of the DVD player.Jul 14 03:34
twitterI wonder how much Nvidia will have to pay to have those two codecs in their chips.Jul 14 03:35
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fewahttp://www.dubistterrorist.de/Jul 14 04:39
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fewaand will users of the chips in foreign countries that do not recognize software patents still have to pay higher rates?Jul 14 04:44
twitteryes, Nvidia will pass the costs alongJul 14 04:46
fewasoftware patents cost everybodyJul 14 04:47
twitterThe higher cost of non free software is part of every bill you pay.Jul 14 04:48
twitterEspecially from big dumb companies.Jul 14 04:48
twitterLike your electricity.Jul 14 04:48
fewamodern robber baronsJul 14 04:49
twitterMore like desert property swindlers.  They say they own something of value.Jul 14 04:49
twitterBut there's a limitless supply of what they have and the analogy breaks down because free software is better and is not property.Jul 14 04:50
fewathe Brazilian president compared them to drug dealersJul 14 04:51
fewawait Brazil's CTOJul 14 04:56
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fewahttp://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,995477,00.html http://lwn.net/Articles/90619/Jul 14 05:01
fewa" As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade . "Jul 14 05:01
twitterCopyright is a crime.  Every day that sharing is outlawed is another day the building materials for the world's greatest public library are wasted.Jul 14 05:09
twitterIt is as if vandals were able to destroy the library at Alexandria before it was even built.Jul 14 05:09
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Chips_B_MalroyAnybody still up on the other side of the pond?Jul 14 06:04
Chips_B_Malroy"Fiscal year earnings are scheduled to be reportedJuly 23. Don't forget Microsoft reported its first revenue drop in its history last quarter."  http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoftpri0/2009462614_minimicrosoft.htmlJul 14 06:06
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Chips_B_MalroyMini has been drinking the koolaid   http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2009/07/microsoft-has-turned-corner.htmlJul 14 06:07
Chips_B_MalroyBut notice that Mini thinks that there might be more layoffs, and that 15,000 more need to go to make M$ an effective company again.Jul 14 06:08
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schestowitzMaggie Shiels   is as usual spinning in Microsoft's favour: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8148969.stmJul 14 07:18
schestowitzNon-newsJul 14 07:19
schestowitzNot news at all. Just hype from W-E and MS marketingJul 14 07:19
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twitterI summed up Lefty's visible behavior http://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/13/mono-vs-richard-stallman-tactic/comment-page-1/#comment-69581Jul 14 07:43
twitterthe more you look, the worse it is.Jul 14 07:43
Wagner-are you a bot?Jul 14 07:44
Wagner-helloOooO?Jul 14 07:45
schestowitzWagner-: me? No.Jul 14 07:45
Wagner-what is twitter?Jul 14 07:45
twitter***twitterbot ignores obvious troll WagnerJul 14 07:45
schestowitzJust became quite fast at these things over the yearsJul 14 07:45
Wagner-twitter really, i come here knowing a bit about this subject, and what is wrong with you people?Jul 14 07:46
twitterfollow the links, Wagner.Jul 14 07:46
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schestowitztwitter: you wrongly accuse DavidJul 14 07:46
schestowitzHe's got nothing to do with MSJul 14 07:46
schestowitzMany people don't like RMSJul 14 07:46
schestowitzeven some people in DebianJul 14 07:46
twitterI don't say David has anything to do with M$.Jul 14 07:46
twitterI say he defends them, which is true.Jul 14 07:46
schestowitzI have about 10 good posts coming this morning.Jul 14 07:47
schestowitzWhere to start?!!? zongJul 14 07:47
schestowitz*mgJul 14 07:47
twitterDavid has spoken out for a year or so and it's been consistent.Jul 14 07:48
schestowitzGuess I'll keep it short and let the cites tell the story betterJul 14 07:48
schestowitzI'm more concerned about "eet" because he attacks Novell dissent around the Web systematically almostJul 14 07:48
twitterDavid has done some of that too, as I noticed yesterday.Jul 14 07:49
schestowitzBN is at the point now where little new need to be writtenJul 14 07:49
schestowitzI can make a claim and link to older explanationJul 14 07:49
schestowitzThen concentrate on new infoJul 14 07:49
twitterThere's plenty of new info.Jul 14 07:49
schestowitzIt's a good way to organise info as I wanted to do for own purposes in 2007Jul 14 07:50
twitterYour organization and persistence is why M$ attacks the site.Jul 14 07:50
twitterWho knows, we may find out that some WE troll has been using David's ID all along.Jul 14 07:52
twitterIt could be just another nym like Eet, G. Michaels, and other net nasties.Jul 14 07:52
twitterDavid's non stop libel for BN and you are clear to anyone who bothers to look at the links I've provided.  He says the same things as Eet in a less direct way.Jul 14 07:54
twitterHis attack on RMS is particularly repulsive.Jul 14 07:54
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twitterThere have been some good comments on the mono-nono site.  Like this one http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/12/and-the-knives-come-out/#comment-130Jul 14 07:59
twitterLefty's RMS smear was just the first of many that came out.Jul 14 07:59
twitterhttp://mono-nono.com/2009/07/12/and-the-knives-come-out/#comment-128Jul 14 08:00
twitter->  The way it is now, I seriously doubt Lefty is acting from honest principles (nor are many of those who have jumped on either bandwagon). This is especially sad, because it co-opts a real issue (sexism is surely a problem in the world, in business, and in the FLOSS community). I don’t know what is in other men’s heads, but when I see the viciousness of the original attack, the coordination, the timing, the composition of the Jul 14 08:01
twitterDeath threats and Nazi shit.  I've seen all of that from the trolls on Slashdot.Jul 14 08:02
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twitterWe're not talking about a simple case or "I don't like you" here -> (12:05:10 AM) schestowitz: Many people don't like RMSJul 14 08:05
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twitterOffice goes online for real.Jul 14 08:13
twitterha ha.Jul 14 08:13
twitterhttp://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/07/google-vs-microsoft-what-you-need-to-know/Jul 14 08:14
twittereWeek has this, and some really awful javascript ->  Office 2010 will allow Microsoft Live subscribers to access stripped-down versions of OneNote, Excel, Word and PowerPoint for free.Jul 14 08:16
twitterWindows only, for sure.Jul 14 08:16
twitterThey might as well reissue M$ Works with OOXML.Jul 14 08:17
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twitterbust for them.Jul 14 08:17
trmanconotice the "stripped down"Jul 14 08:19
twitterLike I said, M$ Works.  They think it's 1992 again.Jul 14 08:19
twitterlook what else they have, Vista 3 ->   rumors circulated that Microsoft would find a way to release its own stripped-down operating system, a project code-named Gazelle.Jul 14 08:20
twitterIn the face of strong opposition, evangelism's focus may shift to the next version ...Jul 14 08:20
twitterThey keep saying their next OS will be lean but it never is.Jul 14 08:21
schestowitzThey are in troubleJul 14 08:21
schestowitzThey have no choice but to go onlineJul 14 08:21
schestowitzAnd ballmer confessed they don't know how to monetise itJul 14 08:21
schestowitzIf they charge too much they lose to GoogleJul 14 08:22
schestowitzPeople can just change the site address to apps.google.com or whateverJul 14 08:22
schestowitzTHAT is why MS is SO afraid of GoogleJul 14 08:22
fewaMS POSJul 14 08:27
fewathe gazell was pur vaporwareJul 14 08:27
fewaso vague and they hadnt the slightest clue and are just trying to prevent people from jumping, ala MS-DOS 6Jul 14 08:27
twitterM$ Office online?  I don't think so.  If it won't work with Mac and GNU/Linux, it won't work with 20% of the market.Jul 14 08:30
fewaActiveXJul 14 08:30
twitterSo, your chances of sharing with people are low.Jul 14 08:30
fewabut i dont relly careJul 14 08:30
fewaat this point there is no way it compete, all it has left is lock-ingJul 14 08:31
twitterGoogle works with stuff that's not M$.Jul 14 08:31
fewaThats really the crux to microsoft, their whole business model is based upon getting 3rd party developers to make their platform more valuableJul 14 08:32
twitterThe whole point of online editing is to share.  Non free software people have two choices for sharing, someone's gnu/linux box (aka "the cloud") or sneaker net.Jul 14 08:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How the Gates Foundation Helps Getting Children Addicted http://ping.fm/6QcA3Jul 14 08:33
twitterThey don't have the ease of OpenSSH and ApacheJul 14 08:33
schestowitzThere's more to itJul 14 08:33
fewaand then tying and destroying the markets that threaten to compete that businessJul 14 08:33
schestowitzWhile MS didn't have this product they FUDed GoogleJul 14 08:33
schestowitzThey mocked online office suitesJul 14 08:33
twitterThey used to pass stuff around in emails.  That was a pain.Jul 14 08:33
schestowitzbecause they had nothing worthyJul 14 08:34
fewaOnline office in panaceaJul 14 08:34
schestowitzThey also used former employees to slog Google appsJul 14 08:34
schestowitzTo pretend nobody used itJul 14 08:34
fewaOnline computing is just another trapJul 14 08:34
twitterThe usual M$ behavior.  Name calling followed by second rate offerings.Jul 14 08:34
fewaalthough it is much more competitiveJul 14 08:34
twitterPeople are using Google apps.  Steve Ballmer admitted as much last year.Jul 14 08:35
twitterand yes, that threatens every aspect of M$'s ancient monopolyJul 14 08:35
fewaOne thing about microsoft's platform: Microsoft generally has not had access to users dataJul 14 08:35
fewahell they dont even have the source code to IHV's driversJul 14 08:36
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twitterhere you go, Steve B, sweating it out last October http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/18/0023257Jul 14 08:36
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twitternot true - > Microsoft generally has not had access to users dataJul 14 08:37
fewathey have tried to encumber it, and there is the whole NSA key thingJul 14 08:37
twitterThey gave themselves explicit rights to search whatever they wanted back in XP's licensing.Jul 14 08:38
twitterTheir network stack and search tools are notoriously poor, but personal information was indexed and sent back to the mothership.Jul 14 08:38
fewaeven pre-WGA?Jul 14 08:39
twitterI'm not sure about that, but their intent has always been what it is.Jul 14 08:39
twitterI wonder where it shows up in Comes material.Jul 14 08:39
twitterThat would be a great find.Jul 14 08:40
twitterIt would make their current attacks look like they blatant hypocrisy they are.Jul 14 08:40
twitterWhen pressed, the TOYA Boys will say things like, "M$ does not have a mechanism to collect this information."Jul 14 08:41
twitterIf they are not completely ignorant, they can't deny M$'s licensing language.  With Vista, they can't deny they collection mechanism has been built.Jul 14 08:42
twitterThis is one of the big reasons companies have rejected Vista.Jul 14 08:43
fewasmart choiceJul 14 08:47
fewawhy would a company have any interest in handing over the keys to their business?Jul 14 08:48
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twitterNYT publishes a pro Bing article, " Bing Delivers Credibility to Microsoft"Jul 14 08:49
harrytuttlehelloJul 14 08:49
twitterI don't think so.Jul 14 08:49
twitterhello tuttle.  are we still all in this together?Jul 14 08:50
harrytuttlehehe, sureJul 14 08:50
harrytuttleso now its fight over banshee replacing rythmboxJul 14 08:50
harrytuttlewith all those mono-apps developed and sponsored by novell, its only a matter of time, before they will become mature enough and surpass their rivalsJul 14 08:52
harrytuttlebanshee for example does already look more polished and more active than rythemboxJul 14 08:52
harrytuttleas for the argument, why M$ would rather sue first over apps than over the kernel: all Gnu/Linux is worthless by itself without any appsJul 14 08:53
harrytuttlelike Mac OSX value lies on their proprietary API and those apps on top rather than the kernel underneathJul 14 08:54
twitterGNU/Linux has plenty of media players.Jul 14 08:56
harrytuttleNovells agenda: push as many mono-apps as possible and win mindshare over the platform, by forcing users to contribute via C# to those projectsJul 14 08:57
twitterVLC, Totem, Amarok, Natun, Xine, mplayer, kmplayer and on and on.Jul 14 08:57
twitterIf you want slick, take Amarok.Jul 14 08:58
harrytuttlesure, id love to see vlc default even in gnomeJul 14 08:58
twitterNovell is going nowhere fast with their mono push.Jul 14 08:59
harrytuttlethey use ubuntu as "their tool"Jul 14 08:59
twitterIf they crap out ubuntu, people will move on to other distributionsJul 14 09:00
twitterI don't think Ubuntu will be so foolish.Jul 14 09:00
harrytuttleubuntu users probably are the most "pragmatic" being mostly windows convertsJul 14 09:01
twitterGood free software does not need vocal advocates chasing people around news lists and forums.  No software worth running has people smearing RMS.Jul 14 09:02
harrytuttlesmearing rms is bad tactic and has nothing to do with rms rightfully critizing mono for what its worthJul 14 09:03
benJIman"< twitter> Good free software does not need vocal advocates chasing people around news lists and forums." Oh the irony.Jul 14 09:04
Guest_327smearing anyone for political gains is a bad tactic.Jul 14 09:04
harrytuttlebut all debate is not going to stop the massive amount of work going on behind the scenes to replace apps with mono-dependant onesJul 14 09:05
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twitterSpeaking of chasing people around, why are you here benJIman?Jul 14 09:05
harrytuttlegnu / linux has reached a state, where the kernel is more stable, secure and even has more devices running default than any M$ product could ever matchJul 14 09:06
benJImanI was here before you, you can't really accuse me of chasing you around.Jul 14 09:06
fewabenJIman, when the first thing you do is attack someone else, this makes you suspiciousJul 14 09:06
twitterYou might answer the question Benji.Jul 14 09:06
harrytuttleso now only the apps/ killer-apps are missing... most stuff is already there, like Firefox, OpenOffice, etc.... only some default apps like paint, etc. are missing...Jul 14 09:07
twitterInstead of trying to put words in my mouth.Jul 14 09:07
benJImanYou put them in your own mouth, and I've answered them before so you clearly have no interest in remembering.Jul 14 09:07
twitterNo, I don't think I've ever seen you say exactly why you were here.Jul 14 09:08
twitterNor have I ever seen you say anything constructive.Jul 14 09:09
twitter***twitter ignores benJIman, again.Jul 14 09:09
harrytuttlebenjI: so whats your personal opinion about mono?Jul 14 09:09
harrytuttleyou think its save?Jul 14 09:10
benJImanharrytuttle: It's great.Jul 14 09:10
benJImanharrytuttle: I don't live in the US, and if I did and was concerned about patents I wouldn't be able to run GNU/Linux for a start.Jul 14 09:10
benJImanMono would be the least of my worries.Jul 14 09:10
harrytuttlewould you think MS would sue themselves anything related GNU/Linux other than Mono?Jul 14 09:11
harrytuttlesue themsleves= sue anyone themslevesJul 14 09:11
harrytuttlewould you think they would sue over the kernel? Firefox? Java?Jul 14 09:12
benJImanThey have nothing to gain and everything to lose from such a move. Whereas smaller companies who have been granted patents for things that lots of other free software infringes are more dangerous.Jul 14 09:13
harrytuttlei'd agreeJul 14 09:13
harrytuttlebut why would they gain not much and probably lose much more ? why did they think that wouldn't be the case for sueing over FAT?Jul 14 09:15
harrytuttlebecause its their techJul 14 09:15
harrytuttlethey control itJul 14 09:15
harrytuttlethey think they are morally entitled to fight, because its theirs to begin withJul 14 09:16
harrytuttleLinux and Java and Firefox isnt "theirs"Jul 14 09:16
harrytuttleMono and dontnet ISJul 14 09:16
harrytuttlethats the differenceJul 14 09:16
Guest_327FAT was allowed to be used, but not sub-licensed, thats what TOMTOM did wrong.Jul 14 09:16
Guest_327sublicensing FAT under the GPL, but its not the C code or C language at fault.Jul 14 09:17
harrytuttleMS made it appear differentJul 14 09:17
harrytuttlethey portayed it as patent license-issuesJul 14 09:18
Guest_327It is a patent license issue, but MS made a general statement allowing the use of FAT as long as you kept to the agreement. Otherwise all bets are off.Jul 14 09:19
Guest_327TOMTOM, took the patent agreement for use, but used the patent but did not keep to the agreement regarding sub-licensing the use of the patented FATJul 14 09:20
harrytuttleokay, and now they made an agreement that allows usage of C# and CLI, as long those arent used to copy their useful form: .NETJul 14 09:20
fewawhy would Microsoft purposefully make their legal "promise" totally inconclusive if the did not mean to sue and harass people over it?Jul 14 09:21
Guest_327yes thats right its akin to saying you can use C language but you cannot use all code ever written by C.Jul 14 09:21
harrytuttlewell, it would not have to be all code ever written in C#, only extend the promise to not enforce patents or demand royalties over that code/libraries that MS markets as .NETJul 14 09:27
harrytuttlethereby making cross-platfform programming usefulJul 14 09:27
fewathats just junkJul 14 09:28
harrytuttleunder gnu/linux or any platform being able to run .NET codeJul 14 09:28
fewawhen microsoft sells a product they do some impendifying users of patent infringement arising from the use of that productJul 14 09:28
harrytuttlefewa: what is junk? .NET libaries?Jul 14 09:28
fewathis in inherent in the commerical transactionJul 14 09:28
Guest_327well the .net stuff is mainly for the Windows API's so if your developing for linux they are not as necessary, but the framework of .net is a set of tools that you would be able to develop independtly with C# in clean room style.Jul 14 09:29
harrytuttlebut patents wouldnt allow a clean-room inplemenation?Jul 14 09:29
fewapretending that you must to pay protection money for something that is a inherent right is just despicableJul 14 09:30
twitterGoogle remembers benJIman's irritating non answers to direct questions.  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/06/irc-log-05092008-3/Jul 14 09:31
twitterhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/09/irc-log-08102008/Jul 14 09:31
twitter->  benJIman, you sound like Gates answering questions for the DOJ. “Define uninstall”?Jul 14 09:32
Guest_327why is there an inherent right to it ?Jul 14 09:32
fewaIf Microsoft sells a product they claim's use is covered by their patents, they must sell that product with its corresponding patent licenceJul 14 09:34
fewaThats part of the exhaustion doctrine.Jul 14 09:34
Guest_327what product are you referring too ?Jul 14 09:34
fewaharrytuttle's troll: <harrytuttle> well, it would not have to be all code ever written in C#, only extend the promise to not enforce patents or demand royalties over that code/libraries that MS markets as .NETJul 14 09:36
Guest_327except they may want to hold onto that, many companies do this have open and proprietary code as well, Red hat, canicional and so on.Jul 14 09:37
Guest_327but there is nothing to stop you the community from developing your own set of toolsJul 14 09:39
fewaGuest_327, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VvNsQU8ncA&feature=channel imagine if Beethoven had to evade patents to write music?Jul 14 09:47
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fewaGuest_327, you are a proponent of monopolies on math and software algorithms, you are not welcome hereJul 14 09:48
fewa* [Guest_327] (n=IceChat7@CPE-143-238-123-167.nsw.bigpond.net.au): The Chat cool people useJul 14 09:48
Guest_327thanks fewa for making those assumptions, as wrong as they are, I do not propose patents on numbers, musical notes, musical scales, words, or computer instructions.Jul 14 09:54
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fewathen what did you mean byJul 14 09:57
fewa<Guest_327> but there is nothing to stop you the community from developing your own set of toolsJul 14 09:57
Guest_327umm, that there is nothing to stop the community from developing their own set of tools, like has been done with java, C libs and so on.Jul 14 09:58
Guest_327Qt as wellJul 14 09:59
fewabut we were discussing patents, not copyrightsJul 14 09:59
fewa*areJul 14 09:59
Guest_327basically what I said is what I ment.  yes, I know we are.Jul 14 09:59
fewathey you do not understand the topic of patentsJul 14 10:00
fewa*thenJul 14 10:00
Guest_327its very possible, (see FAT) that you can code something in a different way, to avoid patents and achieve the same functionality.Jul 14 10:00
fewawhat about the patent on 1-click shopping?Jul 14 10:01
fewaor on page-up page-downJul 14 10:01
fewascrolling?Jul 14 10:02
fewaor on B-frames?Jul 14 10:02
Guest_327what about it ? I dont know them or care about them, are they in .NET ? i dont think so.Jul 14 10:02
fewaMicrosoft does not name the patents it may assert, also MSFT makes its software completely reliant on the patents it hasJul 14 10:04
Guest_327that does not mean you have too, you can create software with C# that does not have patents in it, just as you can write c code that is full of patents. its up to you. not the programming language you use.Jul 14 10:06
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft’s Veiled Attack on Google Tries to Incite GNU/Linux People Against Chrome OS http://ping.fm/fdVEZJul 14 10:12
schestowitzGuest_327: is MUTEXJul 14 10:13
schestowitzNymshifting againJul 14 10:13
fewaim not suprisedJul 14 10:14
fewawhat idiot employer who pay somebody to spout such incompetence?Jul 14 10:16
fewa*wouldJul 14 10:16
fewaschestowitz, yeah, v8 must be by far the fastest javascript for ARMJul 14 10:20
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schestowitzHe's wasting everyone's time by injecting MS PRJul 14 10:22
fewabut thats just a war of attritionJul 14 10:23
fewawhich is entirely futileJul 14 10:24
fewacause v8 can compile bytecode for x86 and ARMJul 14 10:29
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_Hicham__good morning schestowitzJul 14 11:29
schestowitzHiJul 14 11:38
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bing Fails, So Microsoft Proceeds to Anti-competitive Practices http://ping.fm/RDxSaJul 14 11:55
schestowitzHey, bing BenJul 14 11:55
binghi schestowitzJul 14 11:56
schestowitzWhy bing?Jul 14 11:56
binghah, i had the nick before the search engine was namedJul 14 11:56
schestowitzAh, OKJul 14 11:56
schestowitzWe have a twitter here, also predating the serviceJul 14 11:56
bingmost importantly, my nick lets me do this:Jul 14 11:57
*bing bing bing!Jul 14 11:57
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*fewa is now known as googolJul 14 11:59
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MinceRsuch a strange state of bing.Jul 14 12:00
googolBING Is No GoogleJul 14 12:01
googol*NotJul 14 12:01
googolbut i guess no works tooJul 14 12:01
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @danyR: Ubuntu 9.04 Receives OpenJDK 6 Certification - Now compatible with Sun's Java SE 6 platform - Softpedia http://moopz.com/jmrpJul 14 12:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Windows Security Failures Watch http://ping.fm/1AMLJJul 14 12:12
*schestowitz suspects smelling buzz marketing from MSJul 14 12:12
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schestowitzping tessier Jul 14 12:28
Diablo-D3schestowitz: btwJul 14 12:32
Diablo-D3ubuntu needs openjdk 7 certification :<Jul 14 12:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Bing: Not Really Gaining on Google: http://is.gd/1yoCz -> LMAOJul 14 12:33
trmancoBing <-> BongJul 14 12:33
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Diablo-D3---> bangJul 14 12:36
MinceRoh noes, it's a Diablo-D3Jul 14 12:36
Diablo-D3wtf are you doing in hereJul 14 12:37
MinceRidling, mostlyJul 14 12:38
MinceRand what are you doing here?Jul 14 12:38
Diablo-D3becoming the sword of justice.Jul 14 12:38
trmancohmmJul 14 12:38
Diablo-D3I should just change my nick to FuckMicrosoftJul 14 12:39
Diablo-D3goddamnitJul 14 12:39
Diablo-D3[07:58:23] --- FuckMicrosoft :Erroneous NicknameJul 14 12:39
trmancogive me a seckJul 14 12:39
Diablo-D3BILLY MAYS HEREJul 14 12:40
Diablo-D3Cant you get trouble operating systems out? Your system crashing? Do you like Vince's nuts?Jul 14 12:40
Diablo-D3or somethingJul 14 12:40
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trmancolike that?Jul 14 12:41
trmanco:-PJul 14 12:41
Diablo-D3hahJul 14 12:41
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trmanco:-PJul 14 12:43
MinceRDiablo-D3: let's see if you're eligible for thatJul 14 12:44
*MinceR wields Diablo-D3 Jul 14 12:44
MinceRnah, you aren't even masterwork.Jul 14 12:45
Diablo-D3hrrJul 14 12:46
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_Hicham__schestowitz doesn't like insulting MicrosoftJul 14 13:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Looking for Lord Justice Jacob submission to the 2006 European Consultation on patent policy... it should be here: http://bit.ly/15rPSJul 14 13:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Only With You - Captain Hollywood Project" ♫ http://blip.fm/~9whhuJul 14 13:17
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "More and More - Captain Hollywood" ♫ http://blip.fm/~9whkdJul 14 13:18
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Sidekick- Deep Fear (Phobia Club Remix) - " ♫ http://blip.fm/~9whr3Jul 14 13:24
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Angle on Personal Attacks from Mono http://ping.fm/5lrAJJul 14 13:38
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Diablo-D3_Hicham__: good for himJul 14 13:41
Diablo-D3I, however, doJul 14 13:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] "A good court system must be composed of technical judges [...] They must be strongly convinced that patents are good." http://bit.ly/18O4rsJul 14 13:42
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Carphone Warehouse AstroTurfing Exposed, Microsoft’s Voyage Into Twitter Continues http://ping.fm/WxY7GJul 14 14:09
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Surveys Confirm: Vista 7 Will Fail in the Market http://ping.fm/cGWZVJul 14 14:31
Diablo-D3lol vista 7Jul 14 14:34
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Gartner on why we need software patents: http://bit.ly/6lEEaJul 14 15:08
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Lobbies Come Under Fire by the Open Source Initiative (OSI) and Linux Journal http://ping.fm/JGxS0Jul 14 15:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Freda is diagnosed as having swine flu! I go fetch Tamiflu shortly. Good thing we didn't bring her to the readthrough on Saturday ...Jul 14 15:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Dear IE6: you're not dying fast enough, so let's stab you a bit and see if that helps. Love, Google. http://is.gd/1yz1rJul 14 15:40
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Paid Microsoft AstroTurfer Strikes Boycott Novell http://ping.fm/U5kdSJul 14 16:36
schestowitz^^ Friends from Singapore...Jul 14 16:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SCO Scandals Get Worse: unXis Seems to be All About SCO http://ping.fm/73EeKJul 14 16:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] freda will be fine, swine flu is presently mild but v infectious - only the young, old, asthmatic etc are getting tamifluJul 14 16:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Froelinger about UPLS: "Once we have this decision, member states will not be able to hide behind legal arguments" http://bit.ly/I7sg7Jul 14 16:44
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schestowitzbblJul 14 16:50
zoobab01hiJul 14 16:51
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David_Lee"SCO Scandals Get Worse".  Has novell received anything concerning the awarded judgement against SCO?Jul 14 17:50
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Lá vou eu fazer o jantar...Jul 14 18:48
Diablo-D3Critical JavaScript vulnerability in Firefox 3.5: http://blog.mozilla.com/security/2009/07/14/critical-javascript-vulnerability-in-firefox-35/Jul 14 18:58
schestowitzHey, zoobab01 Jul 14 19:04
schestowitzDavid_Lee: better ask Groklaw. I wish I knew.Jul 14 19:04
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tessier_Windows 7 RTM eh?Jul 14 19:10
schestowitzI remember Vista RTMJul 14 19:12
schestowitzOctober or November 2006Jul 14 19:12
schestowitzIt was the wonderful most successful OS everJul 14 19:12
schestowitzIt was going to take the world by storm in JanuaryJul 14 19:12
schestowitzNew Surveys Confirm: Vista 7 Will Fail in the Market http://ping.fm/cGWZVJul 14 19:12
Diablo-D3hehJul 14 19:13
Diablo-D3I used 7 betaJul 14 19:13
Diablo-D3its actually quite niceJul 14 19:13
Diablo-D3but ... fehJul 14 19:13
Diablo-D3they're going to fuck it upJul 14 19:13
Diablo-D3I know they areJul 14 19:13
schestowitzThey haveJul 14 19:13
schestowitzWatch Reality log in BNJul 14 19:13
schestowitzIn RC they ruined itJul 14 19:13
schestowitzThey added a of fat to itJul 14 19:13
schestowitzNot FAT, fatJul 14 19:13
schestowitzAnd huge Windows fans like Reutt complainedJul 14 19:14
Diablo-D3as in bacon?Jul 14 19:14
schestowitzAyeJul 14 19:14
Diablo-D3schestowitz: thats fucking tardedJul 14 19:14
Diablo-D3they need to hire meJul 14 19:14
schestowitzbrbJul 14 19:14
David_LeeI will do that. Thank youJul 14 19:14
Diablo-D3I'll fix their shit overnightJul 14 19:14
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MinceRno, they need to dieJul 14 19:26
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MinceRthe only thing that's ever kept m$ alive was their underhanded dealings and the industry needs none of that.Jul 14 19:27
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Chips_B_MalroyMinceR:  do you mean that M$ would go past the point of legal?Jul 14 19:30
MinceRi don't think i understand the questionJul 14 19:30
Chips_B_Malroyas to what keeps M$ alive.Jul 14 19:31
Chips_B_Malroythey have been caught a few times thereJul 14 19:31
MinceRthey have, but they've never been adequately punishedJul 14 19:31
MinceRnor prevented from continuing their conductJul 14 19:31
Chips_B_Malroyhow trueJul 14 19:32
Chips_B_Malroythe quarter ending for M$ will be July 23rd, and will be released by them after the stock market closesJul 14 19:33
Chips_B_Malroyrumors of more layoffs on mini-ms blogJul 14 19:33
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Chips_B_Malroythe fact that M$ continues to look for projects to cut, and is even trying to sell one company it bought, may mean this quarter will not be a good oneJul 14 19:35
Chips_B_Malroybut we can expect M$ and their Shills, to paint the best picture possibleJul 14 19:35
schestowitzHeyJul 14 19:36
Chips_B_MalroyhelloJul 14 19:36
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: yes, layoffs seem likelyJul 14 19:37
schestowitzThey have nothing in storeJul 14 19:37
schestowitzJust cannibalisation ('cloud'/fog)Jul 14 19:37
schestowitzAll their recent products failJul 14 19:37
MinceRhot air :>Jul 14 19:37
MinceRput in shiny plastic boxes!Jul 14 19:38
schestowitzVista, Zune, XBox360, Dea.. I mean, Live..Jul 14 19:38
MinceR:DJul 14 19:38
schestowitzThey all lose tons of moneyuJul 14 19:38
schestowitzThey timed next financial results around vista 7 releaseJul 14 19:38
schestowitzWell, not proper releaseJul 14 19:38
schestowitzBut it's supposed to give them something with which they bury another terrible qtrJul 14 19:39
Chips_B_MalroyM$ depends on OEM's to sell their software, so their short term future is all based on Intel hardware selling well, in the USA and other places like the EU.  The EU battles is delaying the release of Vista7 as well, why M$ wants to settle now.Jul 14 19:39
MinceRs/put/sold/Jul 14 19:40
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, without mentioning names, (u know I would not do that) I see you are harboring one rattlesnake, who's purpose here, is most likely to hurt you.Jul 14 19:41
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schestowitzDance Reality Show Barred From Doing A Michael Jackson Tribute < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090710/0402235514.shtml >Jul 14 19:42
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: more than oneJul 14 19:43
schestowitzThere's one troll here that used 10 namesJul 14 19:43
schestowitzHis latest is "Guest_327"Jul 14 19:44
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Chips_B_Malroyit will be interesting to see the July 23rd figures from MS, to see if they have any more accounting tricks leftJul 14 19:44
schestowitzMaybe another TE, who knows...?Jul 14 19:44
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: I think it will be badJul 14 19:44
schestowitzBut it's not importantJul 14 19:44
schestowitzMicrosoft is stuck since April 2008Jul 14 19:44
Chips_B_MalroyI see M$ as the main enemy of FOSS, not Novel.  Novel is only trying to exsist by taking M$ money, which taints them, and poisons Linux with Mono/MoonlightJul 14 19:45
MinceRnovell is practically just a department of m$ nowJul 14 19:46
MinceRnovell is the stick they touch GPL with.Jul 14 19:46
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, I was not referring to the troll Guest_327Jul 14 19:46
Chips_B_Malroybut thats all I will say on the viper subject, except be careful, which u already knowJul 14 19:47
Chips_B_MalroyMinceR: yesJul 14 19:47
schestowitzChanServ: cj?Jul 14 19:48
schestowitzWe have some Mono people hereJul 14 19:48
schestowitzBut I think I know who you refer toJul 14 19:49
Chips_B_MalroyBalmer still has plans to pump online advertising with 5 to 10% of MS profits for the next 5 years.Jul 14 19:49
schestowitzIf the temperature rises, we'll take care of itJul 14 19:49
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy:  of profits, eh?Jul 14 19:49
schestowitzNot revenueJul 14 19:49
schestowitzMaybe he know profit will carry on shrinkingJul 14 19:49
schestowitzIt fell 30% or so in AprilJul 14 19:50
schestowitzIt's likely to be the same next weekJul 14 19:50
schestowitzMicrosoft is stuckJul 14 19:50
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schestowitzIt's stuck in the old wave or business modelJul 14 19:50
Chips_B_MalroyIts more than the fight with Google, its also the fight with Adobe, every bit as important to MS.  Silverlight to destroy Flash is the other part of their plan.  Adobe needs to wake up and go to court.Jul 14 19:50
Chips_B_MalroyYes, maybe Roy that 5 years "plan," is how long before M$ becomes unprofitableJul 14 19:51
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Omar87Hi guys.Jul 14 19:52
MinceRmy dream is that m$, google and adobe get in a fight and destroy each otherJul 14 19:52
MinceRhay Omar87Jul 14 19:52
Omar87LOL!Jul 14 19:52
Chips_B_MalroySilverlight is the root of all Mono/Novel evilJul 14 19:53
MinceRif only they could somehow destroy crApple tooJul 14 19:53
MinceRi think silverblight is just a facet of that evilJul 14 19:53
Balrogapple does not like silverlightJul 14 19:53
Balrogor flash for that matterJul 14 19:53
Balrogthey like h.264Jul 14 19:53
Omar87Bill Gates gained a patent over an "invention that could stop storms and tornadoes"!!! :DJul 14 19:53
Chips_B_MalroyApple is not a long term problem.  They only appeal to the richer folksJul 14 19:53
schestowitzMinceR: you forget JobsJul 14 19:54
MinceRas long as that doesn't change, yesJul 14 19:54
schestowitzOhJul 14 19:54
schestowitzWaitJul 14 19:54
schestowitzI caught upJul 14 19:54
MinceRschestowitz: right -- jobs could just die and drag crApple to the graveJul 14 19:54
Omar87It seems like he was either drunk or high. :pJul 14 19:54
Chips_B_MalroySilverlight is Mono, and Mono is a poor cousin of Silverlight.Jul 14 19:54
schestowitzChanServ: indeed. Apple is a nicheJul 14 19:54
schestowitzIt fills that niche at the momentJul 14 19:55
schestowitzSo Apple may have 3% market shareJul 14 19:55
schestowitzMaybe 10% market share in the USJul 14 19:55
schestowitzBecause many richer people live in the USJul 14 19:55
Balrogbut then again, market share is a very bad indicator of actual market percentageJul 14 19:55
MinceRindeedJul 14 19:55
Chips_B_MalroyAdobe Flash is more vunerable than Google online advertising or searchJul 14 19:55
Balrogheard of that OS9 browser ...?Jul 14 19:55
Balrog(Classilla)Jul 14 19:55
Balrogsomeone's actually working on improving mozilla for Mac OS 9Jul 14 19:58
Chips_B_MalroyUnless Apple reduces the price of Mac's to compete headon with the OEM's, then it will remain a niche only in richer countriesJul 14 19:58
Chips_B_MalroyApple will continue to charge as much as the market will bear, for as long as it can.  This is also affects by the number of computers that Apple can actually turn out, as it does make its own computers, and therefore can only turn out X numbers of computers per yearJul 14 20:00
Chips_B_MalroyApple is not the big problem short termJul 14 20:00
Chips_B_MalroyIf they increase manufacturing capability and lower cost, they could be a serious problem for M$ and the OEM'sJul 14 20:01
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Diablo-D3Chips_B_Malroy: as an investment aapl isnt badJul 14 20:01
Chips_B_MalroyMinceR:  Look at the lawsuit now Apple vs Pystar.  Pystar is basically doing the same thing that the OEM's did back when they cloned the IBM compatables, less even, as the Mac runs on IBM compatables.  The difference is the legal end, EULA's, copyrights, and Patents to stifle innnovation.Jul 14 20:04
MinceRi knowJul 14 20:04
MinceRbut many customers don't know/don't careJul 14 20:04
Chips_B_MalroyIt should be legal to clone a Mac, its the same intel hardwareJul 14 20:04
MinceRiirc their angle of attack was how osx was redistributedJul 14 20:05
Chips_B_MalroyMinceR: YES.  Its an legal argumentJul 14 20:05
Chips_B_Malroybut its the same thing as when the IBM computer was backword engineered,  Heck, you don't even have to "backward" engineer a Mac, its already runs on an IntelJul 14 20:06
Chips_B_MalroyNotice that there are more and more companines selling Mac clones now besides PystarJul 14 20:08
Chips_B_MalroyIn the end, Apple may not be able to stop all of them in differnent countries, with the same legal positionJul 14 20:08
Chips_B_MalroyIf one wins, Apple may be forced to change the way it markets OS XJul 14 20:09
schestowitzBalrog: it's insane. Old Macs should get modern LinuxJul 14 20:09
Chips_B_MalroyAs in raise the price of its OSJul 14 20:09
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Hacker's human rights 'ignored' http://ping.fm/W0J2zJul 14 20:12
schestowitzDavid_Lee: you're from Linux Journal..?Jul 14 20:12
schestowitzOr maybe that's Justin (I can't remember)Jul 14 20:12
schestowitzNotice how nobody in the mainstream press wrote about the massive revelations about SCO. Are they afraid that Darl and his cowboys will play rodeo on them /too/?Jul 14 20:13
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, most likely, and also afriad of MS as wellJul 14 20:16
Balrogschestowitz: Old macs don't run modern Linux that wellJul 14 20:19
Balrogthey run BSD betterJul 14 20:19
Balrogand you lose all your old apps (of which there are many good ones)Jul 14 20:19
Chips_B_MalroyThe connection between MS and Netflix, the Presiden of Netflix is on the board of MS.  Its why Silverlight is being used on Netflix, even though it has had major problems and complaints.  Other than Netflix, does Silverlight have any real premium content, or is it just commercials?Jul 14 20:19
Diablo-D3Balrog: bullshitJul 14 20:19
Diablo-D3my ppc powerbook runs linux better than it did osxJul 14 20:19
Diablo-D3it fliesJul 14 20:20
Diablo-D3and G4s dont flyJul 14 20:20
Diablo-D3Chips_B_Malroy: does flash have any premium content? noJul 14 20:20
Diablo-D3so, to be fair, thats not really an issueJul 14 20:20
BalrogDiablo-D3: with os x it's a little differentJul 14 20:20
Diablo-D3with osx its slow as fucking shitJul 14 20:21
BalrogDiablo-D3: RAM?Jul 14 20:21
Diablo-D32 gigsJul 14 20:21
BalrogCPU speed?Jul 14 20:21
Diablo-D3its a 1.25ghz G4Jul 14 20:21
Diablo-D3and it has a mobile radeon 9600Jul 14 20:21
Balroghrmm. I've run OS X on slower things than thatJul 14 20:22
Balrogand it's performed decentlyJul 14 20:22
Diablo-D3your definition of 'decently' sucks.Jul 14 20:22
BalrogI have OS X 10.4 or a 450MHz G4 with 768MB of RAM, works wellJul 14 20:22
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, so Diablo-D3 is still a proponent of Silverlight/Mono I see. Flash is everywhere, youtube, all over with premium.   and best of all, with flashblock extenstion in firefox, you can block the commercials and just play the premium content.  You cannot do that in Silverlight/Mono as far as I knowJul 14 20:22
Diablo-D3Chips_B_Malroy: not at allJul 14 20:23
Diablo-D3Im just saying flash and silverlight and all that shit is pointless and deadJul 14 20:23
Diablo-D3btw, adblock has flash blocking built inJul 14 20:23
Diablo-D3it can block java applets too iircJul 14 20:23
Diablo-D3so they'll probably add silverlight if anyone actually ends up using itJul 14 20:24
Diablo-D3the problem with silverlight is it only recently became actually usefulJul 14 20:24
Diablo-D3flash has all sorts of stuff that can be called from it's javascript impl....Jul 14 20:24
Diablo-D3java is java....Jul 14 20:24
Diablo-D3yet silverlight had nothing to do complex logic withJul 14 20:24
Diablo-D3yet again microsoft is really fucking behindJul 14 20:25
Diablo-D3and I dont know whyJul 14 20:25
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Diablo-D3they can go look at the rest of the world as good as I canJul 14 20:25
Diablo-D3they know what they're up againstJul 14 20:25
Diablo-D3it just doesnt make any senseJul 14 20:25
Diablo-D3its like all the sudden microsoft became allergic to moneyJul 14 20:26
Diablo-D3alright, Im going to bedJul 14 20:26
Diablo-D3nightJul 14 20:26
Chips_B_MalroyMinceR:  well cutting thru all the spam here, basically Siverlight/Moonlight adds nothing but commercials to LinuxJul 14 20:27
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Chips_B_Malroywhy would we want Moonlight?  There is no reason to want it.Jul 14 20:29
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: Silver Lie adoption is poorJul 14 20:29
schestowitzMicrosoft admits itJul 14 20:29
schestowitzNetflix could be a _bought_ contractJul 14 20:29
schestowitzMicrosoft BUYS many contractsJul 14 20:29
schestowitzSays AdobeJul 14 20:29
schestowitzTrophy dealJul 14 20:29
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Chips_B_MalroyTrue, but because of the windows update, Silverlight is installed on many many computersJul 14 20:30
schestowitzSo is the BSD TCP/IP stackJul 14 20:30
Chips_B_MalroyAdobe should look into Silverlight being installed by Windows update and sue themJul 14 20:30
schestowitzAnd MinesweeperJul 14 20:30
Chips_B_MalroyB4 its too lateJul 14 20:31
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: yes, they couldJul 14 20:31
schestowitzBut to whom?Jul 14 20:31
schestowitzECIS and EU?Jul 14 20:31
schestowitzThe US DOJ and related departments are Microsoft'sJul 14 20:31
Chips_B_Malroyhow about bothJul 14 20:31
Chips_B_Malroystill could cause them some pain even the DOJJul 14 20:32
Chips_B_Malroyespecailly if Adobe wins in the EU firstJul 14 20:32
Chips_B_MalroyHow about South Korea tooJul 14 20:32
Chips_B_MalroyAdobe needs to wake upJul 14 20:32
Chips_B_MalroyThey could end up being the next "Netscape," sort of.  (Adobe)  Except they are not dependent on just Flash.Jul 14 20:33
schestowitz98 Percent Of Survey Takers Won't Switch To Bing http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/07/14/98-percent-of-surveys-respondents-wont-switch-to-bingJul 14 20:34
schestowitzSee commentJul 14 20:34
schestowitzSeems like an MS advwertJul 14 20:34
schestowitzThey scour Twitter and allJul 14 20:34
schestowitzPolicing Bong coverageJul 14 20:34
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.writtenbysumer.com+microsoft&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=enJul 14 20:35
Chips_B_MalroyI can't say for sure that M$ is using Windows update to install Silverlight, but I read it online, and thats why there are now so many installed base of Silverlight.  Sorry, I do not have the link.Jul 14 20:35
schestowitzFalse alarm...  http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Michelle+Salater++microsoft&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8Jul 14 20:35
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: just slog.Jul 14 20:36
schestowitzSilver Lie ain't doing itJul 14 20:36
schestowitzAnd <video> will hurt RIA in generalJul 14 20:36
Chips_B_MalroyFlash/Silverlight are both propioratory web extenstions if you think about it.  Do we really want M$ to have control of this?Jul 14 20:36
schestowitzIf only we can pressure the elitists from Apple to do somethingJul 14 20:36
schestowitzMicrosoft is a lost causeJul 14 20:36
schestowitzTheir own people say that "unethical shitheads" run the IE teamJul 14 20:36
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, are you saying Silverlight is not being installed by Windows Update?Jul 14 20:37
schestowitzI never heard soJul 14 20:38
schestowitzBut HP doesJul 14 20:38
schestowitzWith their toolbarJul 14 20:38
schestowitzSicne around April 2008 IIRCJul 14 20:38
schestowitzI could checkJul 14 20:38
Chips_B_Malroytheir allyJul 14 20:38
schestowitzBut it's not the pointJul 14 20:38
schestowitzProviders matterJul 14 20:38
schestowitzThey choose based on meritJul 14 20:38
schestowitzMLB and NYT dumped Silver LieJul 14 20:38
schestowitzLike the LSE dumps win32Jul 14 20:38
Chips_B_Malroyas you know, I do not run windows, but I do maintain an old xp for viral checking on custormers computers, its never allowed on the webJul 14 20:39
Chips_B_MalroyMy point is if MS is using Windows Update to install Silverlight, they are once again breaking the Antitrust Laws in the USA, and the competition rules in the EUJul 14 20:40
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Chips_B_Malroyof course that is up to the courts to decide, if Adobe sues, which they shouldJul 14 20:41
Chips_B_Malroyclassic bundlingJul 14 20:42
Chips_B_Malroyusing the power of the monopolyJul 14 20:42
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schestowitzMicrosoft spinner Ed Bott spins bad survey for MSJul 14 20:42
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schestowitzAnd the Microsoft bloggers do the parrot gameJul 14 20:42
schestowitzAmazing!Jul 14 20:42
schestowitzMicrosoft is a amrketing/PR companyJul 14 20:43
schestowitzThey could make W-E the managementJul 14 20:43
schestowitzAnd they surround it with -code moneys- well, Microsoft just buys companies, it doesn't make productsJul 14 20:43
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schestowitzGood riddanceJul 14 20:43
Chips_B_Malroyit maybe you are right Roy, and MS just uses its allies in the OEM's, like Hp to infect computers with SilverlightJul 14 20:43
schestowitzDiablo-D3 is  a trollJul 14 20:43
schestowitzIs this who you talked abotu?Jul 14 20:43
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Chips_B_MalroyRoy, you notice who I never replied toJul 14 20:44
Chips_B_Malroymore than a trollJul 14 20:45
schestowitzNot MinceR Jul 14 20:45
schestowitzAlthough MinceR should quits the death wishes to people. He gives ammo to our criticsJul 14 20:46
Chips_B_MalroyI would be curious about the silverlight installationJul 14 20:46
Chips_B_MalroyYes, its hard for MinceR or anyone to do when he is being unfairly insulted.  Other than that, MinceR is right on target with his comments.Jul 14 20:47
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: need your helpJul 14 20:50
schestowitzRemember lobbyists lists?Jul 14 20:51
schestowitzThe one with Pearly Dad Gates  and Son?Jul 14 20:51
schestowitzWe have a similar list for EUJul 14 20:51
schestowitzNow..Jul 14 20:51
schestowitzMS has a list of "technical evangelists" in its Web siteJul 14 20:51
Chips_B_Malroyhttp://silverlight.net/forums/t/68488.aspxJul 14 20:51
schestowitzGoogle "technical evangelist" IIRCJul 14 20:51
schestowitzWe need to put those names in the WikiJul 14 20:51
schestowitzThen track their activity in people's blogsJul 14 20:51
schestowitzBecause they do legwork (=shilling0Jul 14 20:52
Chips_B_Malroyit would appear that it is an optional update through windows updateJul 14 20:52
Chips_B_MalroyIf I read that link correctlyJul 14 20:52
Chips_B_MalroyRobert Scoble is the 2nd hitJul 14 20:54
Chips_B_Malroyfor technical evangelistJul 14 20:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @amrhassan: Just discovered that installing ntfsprogs gives gparted NTFS superpowers. Awesome.Jul 14 20:55
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Chips_B_MalroyBut even optional, if Silverlight is part of the Windows Update, its still a violationJul 14 20:55
wallclimberwow, things seem to be heating up today...Jul 14 20:55
wallclimberi just finished reading BN's newest articlesJul 14 20:56
wallclimbersizzling!Jul 14 20:56
wallclimberGood job exposing the shills and 'turfers Roy!Jul 14 20:57
wallclimberMicrosoft is such a mess.Jul 14 20:58
Chips_B_MalroyI might even add another comment on the shill you exposed RoyJul 14 20:59
Chips_B_Malroyas he has not expressed any regretJul 14 20:59
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wallclimberChips, do MS people ever express regret?Jul 14 21:01
schestowitzHi, wallclimber Jul 14 21:02
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Chips_B_Malroywallclimber, good pointJul 14 21:02
_Goblinhello all!Jul 14 21:02
wallclimberHi!Jul 14 21:02
_Goblinhi chips! Long time no type!Jul 14 21:02
Chips_B_MalroyHi GoblinJul 14 21:03
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: no, they express no regretsJul 14 21:03
schestowitzI'm not feeding himJul 14 21:03
schestowitzAnd I disabled commentsJul 14 21:03
schestowitzBecause I know what happens otherwiseJul 14 21:03
Chips_B_MalroySorry, Goblin, been busy latelyJul 14 21:03
schestowitzAll the TEs and friends come and do damage controlJul 14 21:03
schestowitzNot only in blogsJul 14 21:03
schestowitzAlso in USENETJul 14 21:04
schestowitzIt's one of those subjects where they change the subject and then attack the messengerJul 14 21:04
schestowitzAnd diffuse the original debateJul 14 21:04
schestowitzTo perfume what they doJul 14 21:04
wallclimberi don't know how they can call it damage control, their comments generally just feed the flames andJul 14 21:04
schestowitzThey are spinners, don't underestimate their nerveJul 14 21:04
wallclimberbring more attention to themselvesJul 14 21:04
Chips_B_MalroyThe shills/trolls are mosting M$ ones, the ones connected with Mono usually have a M$ link somehow I thinkJul 14 21:04
schestowitzwallclimber: noJul 14 21:05
schestowitzMicrosoft expresses regretsJul 14 21:05
schestowitzThat it gets caught Jul 14 21:05
schestowitzLike in OOXMLJul 14 21:05
schestowitzThey regretted..Jul 14 21:05
schestowitzGetting caught... regrets over being sloppyJul 14 21:05
schestowitzHonest.Jul 14 21:05
schestowitzI'm not jokingJul 14 21:05
Chips_B_Malroybut its fake regretJul 14 21:05
schestowitzThey are inherently evil many of themJul 14 21:05
schestowitz“Microsoft is, I think, fundamentally an evil company.” --Former Netscape Chairman James H. ClarkJul 14 21:06
schestowitzJust see their handbooksJul 14 21:06
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/comes-3096.pdfJul 14 21:06
schestowitzDevelopers are "one-night stands"Jul 14 21:06
schestowitzI wonder is James P is married and if so, what did his wife think about his talks?Jul 14 21:06
wallclimberdoes 3096 need transcribing?Jul 14 21:07
wallclimber:)Jul 14 21:07
Chips_B_MalroyRoy:I noticed a troll comment back a day or two, first comment on one of your articles, by "andre"   While its not important to waste time on, do you know right off if that was Andre de Costa?  The M$ Shill, free laptop guy?Jul 14 21:07
wallclimberI think MS regretted that they didn't notice Google until it was too late to squash themJul 14 21:09
wallclimberThey MAY regret SCO somedayJul 14 21:10
wallclimberI just dropped in to say hi (lunch break), Goblin, Chips, Roy, keep up the good workJul 14 21:11
wallclimberbye for now  :)Jul 14 21:12
schestowitzwallclimber: no, Groklaw has the textJul 14 21:12
schestowitzI sent it to PJJul 14 21:12
schestowitzPart of it at the right timingJul 14 21:12
schestowitzSo others helpedJul 14 21:12
Chips_B_MalroyWallclimber, M$ was even further behind in their thinking.  They thought that having control of the browser was everything.  They thought everyone would leave the home page set to MS.com.  They had no idea that users would set their home page to the best web search engine,  which would become in the the portalJul 14 21:12
schestowitzIt was when Jeliffe did his shillingJul 14 21:12
schestowitzAnd she used this as an appendage to show his roleJul 14 21:12
wallclimberok, I remember thatJul 14 21:13
schestowitzChanServ: no, Andre is from FFIIJul 14 21:13
schestowitz* Chips_B_Malroy Jul 14 21:13
Chips_B_MalroyThanks RoyJul 14 21:13
wallclimberIt's funny, i have a sister that thinks she isn't online unless she signs in to MSNJul 14 21:13
schestowitzHeh.Jul 14 21:14
wallclimbersad, really...Jul 14 21:14
schestowitzWhat is "online"?Jul 14 21:14
schestowitzWhen the blue E spinJul 14 21:14
schestowitzbrbJul 14 21:14
wallclimberyes that's it exactly...lolJul 14 21:14
Chips_B_Malroyit really was not so out of line at the time, the thinking, remember when many had their home page set as AOL.com?Jul 14 21:15
wallclimberyes I remember the AOL days, but it does seem hard to get people with always-on Internet service to understand that things have changedJul 14 21:16
schestowitzA lot of people think the Internet is the WebJul 14 21:16
schestowitzAnd that blue E is an "Internet" featureJul 14 21:16
schestowitzThat the Internet is "opened" when they click on "that E windows"Jul 14 21:17
schestowitzThat's the conceptual model theyJul 14 21:17
wallclimbermy sister signs into some sort of "Live" MSN thingJul 14 21:17
schestowitzThat's the conceptual model they haveJul 14 21:17
schestowitzAnd Microsoft capitalises on this ignoranceJul 14 21:17
schestowitzMany people think Windows is part of the computer... ANY computerJul 14 21:17
schestowitzThat it's being manufactured with Windows inside itJul 14 21:17
wallclimberyes they do, absolutely, they love to keep people stupid so they can go on and on about how stupid people areJul 14 21:17
schestowitzThe "Windows key" and Windows stickers don't helpJul 14 21:17
wallclimbermakes me crazyJul 14 21:18
tessierschestowitz: You rang?Jul 14 21:18
schestowitzThey make the computer seem property/captive of MicrosoftJul 14 21:18
schestowitzAnd in Dell's site:Jul 14 21:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] IBM Power servers most reliable in new survey: http://is.gd/1yOz8 -> Windows Server machines performed worse than most competitors...Jul 14 21:18
schestowitzThey list Ubuntu under "Microsoft operating sysyetm"Jul 14 21:18
wallclimberi have a meeting in a few minutes (yikes!), must run...Jul 14 21:18
tessierBING = Bing Is No GoogleJul 14 21:18
schestowitztessier: I haven't.Jul 14 21:18
tessierROFL. Brilliant!Jul 14 21:18
schestowitzBut we had DDOS maybeJul 14 21:18
tessierschestowitz: oh, ok. Must have been old.Jul 14 21:19
schestowitzSome long downtimeJul 14 21:19
schestowitzheavy loadJul 14 21:19
tessierschestowitz: Yes, I noticed that the machine hit a lot of swap this morning.Jul 14 21:19
schestowitzAbout 5 hours agoJul 14 21:19
wallclimberbye everyoneJul 14 21:19
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schestowitztessier: reason known?Jul 14 21:19
schestowitzI tailed the logJul 14 21:19
schestowitzCouldn't see anything obviousJul 14 21:19
tessierschestowitz: I haven't looked into it. By the time I got to my computer everything seemed ok.Jul 14 21:19
Chips_B_MalroyRoy the fact that your site is atracking so many M$ Shills to comment and even inhabit the IRC, is proof that BN is a worry and problem to M$.  De Costa has posted here in the past several times, and may use nymths, as he does other places.  That fact that he and other comfirmed shills post, is not entirely a bad thing, as long as they can be exposed.Jul 14 21:19
schestowitztessier_: the BING acronym is intentionalJul 14 21:19
schestowitzAFAIKJul 14 21:19
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: they game comment ratingsJul 14 21:20
schestowitzSome have multiple IPsJul 14 21:20
schestowitzThey can rate their own comments somehowJul 14 21:20
schestowitzVery, very suspiciousJul 14 21:20
tessierOh, they did that on purpose? That's odd. I took it to be an insult. As in google is better.Jul 14 21:20
schestowitztessier: they think they are another GNUJul 14 21:21
schestowitzthe Dark gnuJul 14 21:21
tessierschestowitz: I didn't pay much attention to the pages I got this morning because I had just revamped the monitoring system and thought they were false alarms.Jul 14 21:21
schestowitzpoops in your garden and asks for toilet paperJul 14 21:21
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, yes I see they have been rigging the comments and the article ratings as well.   They use a proxy to do that of course, and a nymphJul 14 21:22
MinceRnymph?Jul 14 21:23
Chips_B_Malroyu might set a cookie to block themJul 14 21:23
*trmanco yum yumJul 14 21:23
Chips_B_Malroycookie could also tell you if they have voted b4 as another name, but I doubt you would do thisJul 14 21:24
Chips_B_Malroystill could give you some interesting dataJul 14 21:25
Chips_B_Malroyon the shills that do not clear their cacheJul 14 21:25
Chips_B_MalroyMinceR: Nymph=name change hereJul 14 21:26
MinceRicJul 14 21:26
Chips_B_Malroymost would fall for the cookie trapJul 14 21:27
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schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: they can rate by changing browsersJul 14 21:31
schestowitzThe software is deficientJul 14 21:32
schestowitzSo if I run from Konq I could in principle be logged off and get karma, but I don't do this. /they/ do.Jul 14 21:32
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: no cookie for trollsJul 14 21:33
schestowitzNo soup for you!Jul 14 21:33
schestowitzWelcome Lisa Graves, CMD's New Executive Director http://www.prwatch.org/node/8461Jul 14 21:33
schestowitzMany shifts there in SourceWatchJul 14 21:33
schestowitzThey have nice documentationJul 14 21:33
schestowitz"Once again Patrick Moore, a former Greenpeace activist, has been promoting nuclear power as a solution to global warming without disclosing that he is a consultant to the Nuclear Energy Institute's front group, the Clean and Safe Energy Coalition. " http://www.prwatch.org/node/8459 ScamJul 14 21:34
Chips_B_Malroyok, yes, its not a big deal.  Their gaming is anything is immature.Jul 14 21:34
schestowitzmaybe I'll move more into that in the futureJul 14 21:37
schestowitzWhen Linux winsJul 14 21:37
Chips_B_MalroyWell, I have wasted enough of your time here Roy.  Thanks for letting me join the discussion, and carry on the good work, which you and PJ both do.  ByeJul 14 21:37
schestowitzOn the desktop that isJul 14 21:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Richard Steel is out. Good riddance (you needn't say nice things just because people depart) http://ping.fm/HSiHtJul 14 21:37
_GoblinTake care chips!Jul 14 21:38
_GoblinSee you soon.Jul 14 21:38
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_GoblinI miss the Microsoft-Watch days!Jul 14 21:39
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yuhonghttp://techdirt.com/articles/20090709/1907055504.shtmlJul 14 21:41
schestowitz_Goblin: hehe.Jul 14 21:43
schestowitzIt's funny. MS Watch familyJul 14 21:43
schestowitzBut they were small, no?Jul 14 21:43
schestowitzA clique of Microsoft partner and laptop holdersJul 14 21:43
schestowitzAnd many Linux users of courseJul 14 21:43
schestowitzAnd then there's Microsoft JoeJul 14 21:43
schestowitzI'm glad it closed... less sites for me to readJul 14 21:44
schestowitzTectonic shuts down tooJul 14 21:44
schestowitzLess workload = more Comes antitrustJul 14 21:44
yuhongPeer to Patent shuts down as well.Jul 14 21:45
yuhonghttp://techdirt.com/articles/20090709/1907055504.shtmlJul 14 21:45
yuhongAnd on Google, here is a blog article from Matt Cutts, a Google employee:Jul 14 21:46
yuhonghttp://www.mattcutts.com/blog/taking-google-feedback/Jul 14 21:46
yuhongGoogle is not perfect, but is definitely much better than Microsoft.Jul 14 21:46
yuhongAnd definitely less evil than MS would led you to believe.Jul 14 21:47
schestowitztessier: http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/Openmoko-Gets-New-Life-in-Brazil-After-Being-Declared-DeadJul 14 21:48
schestowitzyuhong: noJul 14 21:48
schestowitzIt's flase reportJul 14 21:48
schestowitzIt's aliveJul 14 21:48
schestowitzPeer 2 patent also E-mailed meJul 14 21:48
schestowitzyuhong: tell me when Google breaks lawsJul 14 21:49
schestowitz"Evil" is a vague notionJul 14 21:49
schestowitzLike "naughty girl"Jul 14 21:49
schestowitzMicrosoft is distrusted because it has a heavy criminal pastJul 14 21:50
yuhongYep, exactly.Jul 14 21:50
yuhongThat is my point.Jul 14 21:50
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_Goblinwow....Astralknight has been busy on Twitter today....Jul 14 21:53
MinceRi thought "evil" was a pretty clear conceptJul 14 21:53
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BalrogahahahJul 14 21:57
Balroghttp://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2015/youtubeie6.pngJul 14 21:57
Balrogyoutube will stop working on ie6Jul 14 21:57
schestowitzahJul 14 21:58
schestowitzI se...Jul 14 21:58
schestowitzNeeds contextJul 14 21:58
schestowitzyoutube ie6 pngJul 14 21:59
Balrogit shows the banner that youtube is showing ie6 usersJul 14 21:59
schestowitzYes, I wondered at firstJul 14 22:00
schestowitzFor obvious reasons, y'know :-)Jul 14 22:01
schestowitzIE8 first, then.....Jul 14 22:01
MinceRit seems to be randomJul 14 22:01
MinceRon another screenshot i saw it was chrome,ie,ffJul 14 22:01
trmancothat's certainly fairJul 14 22:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #freecycle #e17 2-drawer A4 filing cabinet. argos, cheap and cheerful. holds paper. 16kg. please take it away before it goes on the kerb.Jul 14 22:05
_Goblinsorry roy, got distracted for a photoshoot!  I used to love MS-watch...I made many online friends there.  A great place for the Linux user!Jul 14 22:06
schestowitz_Goblin:  need helpJul 14 22:07
schestowitzDid you see my advice to chips?Jul 14 22:07
schestowitzWe need a list of MS "evangelists"Jul 14 22:07
schestowitzFor startersJul 14 22:07
_Goblinah...Jul 14 22:07
_GoblinI had a list of loads on twitter.Jul 14 22:07
_GoblinI am sure I made a post on it...Jul 14 22:07
_GoblinIve collected many from people emailing me...thats why I challenge so many and how I find out about them.Jul 14 22:08
_GoblinMr Hussain was the latest from www.ithinkdiff.comJul 14 22:08
_Goblinhe likes to swear and threaten.Jul 14 22:08
_Goblinand lie.Jul 14 22:08
schestowitzDamn, I should have saved that pageJul 14 22:08
schestowitz_Goblin: is he on MS payroll?Jul 14 22:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft is hiring shills (they call it "TE") http://ping.fm/UaeSnJul 14 22:09
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_GoblinI think he is more of a "giftaid" case.Jul 14 22:09
schestowitzDmanJul 14 22:10
schestowitzI need that listJul 14 22:10
schestowitzIt was on ms.comJul 14 22:10
schestowitzAn extensive long list of TEsJul 14 22:10
_GoblinI can start looking through my list of people....its difficult though to distingish between gift aiders and pay rollers.....Jul 14 22:11
_Goblinalthough one could argue is almost the same thing.Jul 14 22:11
_Goblinbb in a min, I have another photo to be taken.Jul 14 22:11
schestowitzhttp://channel9.msdn.com/posts/TheChannel9Team/Robert-Hess-What-is-a-technology-evangelist/Jul 14 22:11
schestowitzHa!Jul 14 22:13
schestowitzBingo!Jul 14 22:13
schestowitzhttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/bb905079.aspxJul 14 22:13
schestowitz_Goblin: can you do me a favour?Jul 14 22:13
schestowitzI need that list trimmed down to just name and dutyJul 14 22:13
schestowitzcomma-delimitedJul 14 22:13
schestowitzWe need this for the WikiJul 14 22:13
schestowitzLike: "Brian Gorbett , Developer Evangelist"Jul 14 22:14
_GoblinIll see what I can do.Jul 14 22:15
schestowitzThanksJul 14 22:17
schestowitzI'll prepare a Wiki templateJul 14 22:18
schestowitzThey will beheve better if they know they are watchedJul 14 22:18
schestowitz*haveJul 14 22:18
_GoblinI have a new term which Ive noticed recently....."Microsoft Outsider" what the hell is that supposed to be?Jul 14 22:18
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schestowitzFacebook employees are offered $14.77 a share  http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1433401/facebook-employees-offered-usd14-77-shareJul 14 22:20
schestowitz_Goblin: no idea, new to meJul 14 22:20
schestowitzMaybe it's like those religious words for people not from your religionJul 14 22:20
schestowitzLike gentileJul 14 22:20
schestowitz"Outsider"Jul 14 22:20
schestowitzMicrosoft sees itself as a religionJul 14 22:21
schestowitzWhile at the same time calling Linux and Apple thatJul 14 22:21
_Goblinpossibly...or maybe its "Microsoft shill and gift reciever wannabe"Jul 14 22:21
schestowitzThey are hypocritesJul 14 22:21
_GoblinI am wondering if that tactic works....Ive always wanted a Bentley.  Maybe if I shill them enough I will get sent one...Jul 14 22:21
_GoblinBentley cars are great you know.....Jul 14 22:22
schestowitzYeah.Jul 14 22:24
schestowitzPut em on ebayJul 14 22:24
schestowitzBTW...Jul 14 22:24
schestowitzSome Linux site (maybe sites)...Jul 14 22:24
schestowitzWell, I don't like what they do...Jul 14 22:24
schestowitzBut I'm friend with the WebmasterJul 14 22:24
schestowitzBasically they get free gear ti reviewJul 14 22:24
schestowitzThey don't need to return itJul 14 22:25
schestowitzSo they can auction the thingJul 14 22:25
_Goblinlol..just looking at that job advert for DE.....Jul 14 22:25
schestowitzI.e. be paid to review itJul 14 22:25
_GoblinQuote "DE's must be able to talk about technology intelligently and enthusiastically to Developers, Developer managers and senior management. Passion, curiosity, technical depth, and exceptional communication and presentation skills are required."Jul 14 22:25
schestowitzPaid by the company sening itJul 14 22:25
schestowitz*dsendingJul 14 22:25
_Goblinthat rules out all of the shills Ive ever argued with.Jul 14 22:25
schestowitzOnes like Andre are not TEsJul 14 22:26
schestowitzThey are useful idiots looking for schwagJul 14 22:26
schestowitzAnd Microsoft gives it to themJul 14 22:26
_Goblinlol...have you seen Andres latest cracker?Jul 14 22:26
schestowitzThey are cheaper shillsJul 14 22:26
schestowitzAndre is begone, no?Jul 14 22:26
schestowitzNever seen him since his favbourite 'site' closedJul 14 22:26
_Goblinlet me quote it:Jul 14 22:27
_Goblinthis is good, so stand by.Jul 14 22:27
_Goblinthis shows that there are no depths they wont stoop to....Jul 14 22:27
_Goblin(am I building the hype???))Jul 14 22:27
_Goblinhere it is:Jul 14 22:27
_Goblin""Looking at some family pics of MJ,  I can see he was a PC user, too bad he didn't live to see Windows 7´´"Jul 14 22:27
_Goblinthats singularly the most repulsive and low comment I've ever seen....whilst Im no fan of MJ, to bring his death into a pro Vista 7 comment is beyond outragous.Jul 14 22:28
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schestowitzhttp://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2009/07/parenting-gold-star.htmlJul 14 22:32
schestowitzLinus' blog is quietJul 14 22:32
schestowitzhttp://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/torvalds/Jul 14 22:33
schestowitzMeh.Jul 14 22:33
schestowitzSo oldJul 14 22:33
_Goblingot my record views yesterday on my blog....Jul 14 22:33
_Goblin862Jul 14 22:33
_Goblinbefore the Wolvix review my highest was 528Jul 14 22:34
_Goblinand my daily average was 270Jul 14 22:34
schestowitzDo you do the TE list?Jul 14 22:34
schestowitzIf not, I willJul 14 22:34
_GoblinI can with what ive got....I am a little concerned when trying to differentiate between giftaid and payroll....Jul 14 22:34
_Goblinfor fear of libel..Jul 14 22:35
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/168331/why_is_opensolaris_gathering_dust_on_a_shelf_at_oracle.htmlJul 14 22:35
_Goblinbut looking at my challenges, Id guess most of them are giftaid.Jul 14 22:35
schestowitz_Goblin: which ones?Jul 14 22:35
schestowitzThe TEs in the MSDN site are payroll-edJul 14 22:36
schestowitzWe need them indexed for reference and learning via WikiJul 14 22:36
_GoblinIll have to go through my blog.....the Neowin ones I beleive are giftaiders...Jul 14 22:36
schestowitzI know some of the namesJul 14 22:36
schestowitzWe need to index the activityJul 14 22:36
_GoblinMarshallus on Twitter is not payroll..Jul 14 22:36
schestowitz_Goblin: MSPsJul 14 22:36
schestowitzYou know that?Jul 14 22:36
_GoblinMSP?Jul 14 22:36
schestowitzYesJul 14 22:36
schestowitzSearch BN for MSPJul 14 22:36
schestowitzYou'll seeJul 14 22:37
_Goblinok looking now...Jul 14 22:37
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_Goblinit says no results...Jul 14 22:37
*schestowitz makes some teaJul 14 22:38
_GoblinHi tacone!Jul 14 22:38
taconehello guysJul 14 22:39
taconei can't find the will power to finish yet another mono articleJul 14 22:39
desusomething like this? http://www.nopaste.com/p/a5kqnhXJWJul 14 22:39
schestowitztacone: I have materialJul 14 22:39
schestowitzOther than today's mono postJul 14 22:39
schestowitzhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/26224/1090/Jul 14 22:40
schestowitzLet this inspire youJul 14 22:40
taconei'm trying to post on the last 2 campaignJul 14 22:40
schestowitzSee how he links to ByfielfJul 14 22:40
schestowitzHilarious!Jul 14 22:40
schestowitz_Goblin: try http://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottnovell.com+msps&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=enJul 14 22:41
_Goblinok.Jul 14 22:41
schestowitzOne MSP censored meJul 14 22:41
schestowitzSome gal from IndiaJul 14 22:41
schestowitzMicrosoft exploit young and/or poor studentsJul 14 22:41
_Goblinah....sorry I thought you meant search using BN search...Jul 14 22:41
schestowitzOld news, but more facts are seen here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/16/india-moves-to-free-software/Jul 14 22:41
schestowitzYou said Neowin is run by such st00dentsJul 14 22:42
schestowitzst00pidsJul 14 22:42
schestowitz_Goblin: BiNg SearchJul 14 22:42
trmancoLOLJul 14 22:42
trmancoBongJul 14 22:42
*schestowitz smoked bongJul 14 22:42
*schestowitz sips teaJul 14 22:42
trmancoBing Bang searchJul 14 22:42
*schestowitz smokes bong againJul 14 22:43
*schestowitz seaches with bingJul 14 22:43
*schestowitz commits suicideJul 14 22:43
_GoblinManaged service provider....I see now....Jul 14 22:43
*tacone is trying to planning a return in franceJul 14 22:43
schestowitz_Goblin: noJul 14 22:43
_GoblinBing Is No Good.Jul 14 22:43
schestowitzMaybe there is another MSPJul 14 22:43
schestowitzAnother acronym I meanJul 14 22:44
_GoblinAh, the description here seems to fit:Jul 14 22:44
_Goblinhttp://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-msp.htmJul 14 22:44
schestowitzBong is needing grassJul 14 22:44
schestowitzOr BING in shortJul 14 22:44
schestowitzMicrosoft is highJul 14 22:45
schestowitzIt thinks it can beat Google without DCsJul 14 22:45
schestowitzOne caught fire last weekJul 14 22:45
schestowitzBong Travel was oiffline for agesJul 14 22:45
schestowitzKayak must have been happyJul 14 22:45
schestowitzMicrosoft ripped them offJul 14 22:45
schestowitzIIRC it's "Microsoft Student partner"Jul 14 22:45
schestowitzKind of like Indians who serves as shills for the British when it was a colonyJul 14 22:46
schestowitzHurting their very own countrymanJul 14 22:46
schestowitzHelping the foreign invader in exchange for giftsJul 14 22:46
schestowitzI explained this to one MSPJul 14 22:46
schestowitzI kid you not he was shockedJul 14 22:47
schestowitzEmbarrassed of himselfJul 14 22:47
schestowitzyoung and stupidJul 14 22:47
schestowitzWe have his realise what he was doing to India and *for* MicrosoftJul 14 22:47
schestowitzSee the comments in some of these posts. You'll seeJul 14 22:47
schestowitzSomething like, "oh no! I'm going to hell"Jul 14 22:47
schestowitzNo sarcasmJul 14 22:47
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trmancohttp://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnote-list/2009-July/msg00002.htmlJul 14 22:51
Chips_B_MalroyHello everyone again, Hey Goblin you still got your ears on?Jul 14 22:52
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schestowitzImageShack hacked in oddball security protest http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/13/imageshack_hack/Jul 14 22:52
schestowitzhey, malroyJul 14 22:52
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: I found that pageJul 14 22:52
schestowitzOf TEsJul 14 22:52
schestowitz_Goblin extracts the namesJul 14 22:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Gnote 0.5.3 has been released -> http://is.gd/1yTJUJul 14 22:53
Chips_B_MalroyHi Roy.  Just trying to get Goblin to check his email.  Sent him a link showing Wilcox defending de Costa as a fan onlyJul 14 22:53
desuschestowitz: did you see my previous link?Jul 14 22:53
taconedesu = thanksJul 14 22:54
taconeisn't it ?Jul 14 22:54
schestowitzdesu: which one?Jul 14 22:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @trmanco Gnote 0.5.3 has been released -> http://is.gd/1yTJUJul 14 22:54
desuschestowitz: http://www.nopaste.com/p/a5kqnhXJWJul 14 22:54
desutacone: desu = to be :PJul 14 22:54
taconeno, desu = pleaseJul 14 22:54
desuo.oJul 14 22:54
*pk has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 14 22:54
desuwhich language?Jul 14 22:54
taconejapaneseJul 14 22:54
schestowitzAh!!Jul 14 22:55
desuo.oJul 14 22:55
schestowitzExcellent!Jul 14 22:55
desudesu = to beJul 14 22:55
taconeai desuJul 14 22:55
schestowitzThanks a lotJul 14 22:55
taconeno, maybe ai dozo.Jul 14 22:55
*schestowitz created Wiki page for drafting postsJul 14 22:55
desuschestowitz: there's a hidden "country" feild too... would you like that too?Jul 14 22:55
desutacone: ai = love...Jul 14 22:55
desudozo = please (as in, "have this please")Jul 14 22:55
taconedesu: ai = yes not just loveJul 14 22:55
trmancohttp://www.h-online.com/security/First-Zero-Day-Exploit-for-Firefox-3-5--/news/113761Jul 14 22:55
trmancohaJul 14 22:55
desuhai = yes :/Jul 14 22:56
trmancoWindows only vuln in FF 3.5?Jul 14 22:56
schestowitzdesu: yes, if it's not much troubleJul 14 22:56
Chips_B_MalroyI refuse to post on Wilcox's new siteJul 14 22:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Dubya surveillance exceeded warrantless wiretaps http://ping.fm/1cQasJul 14 22:56
taconedesu:  yes, i mistaken desu for dozoJul 14 22:56
desulol, it's jsut a small jsJul 14 22:56
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: don'tJul 14 22:56
schestowitzIt makes him write moreJul 14 22:56
schestowitzAnd he's pro-VoleJul 14 22:56
taconedesu: are you from japan or just practicing jap disciplines ?Jul 14 22:57
trmancoSlow Firefox 3.5 start up time: http://www.h-online.com/security/Slow-Firefox-3-5-start-up-time--/news/113757Jul 14 22:58
schestowitzWe also have this list: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/21/list-microsoft-and-gates-lobbyists/Jul 14 22:58
taconetrmanco: chromium alpha used to start up before the click on the icon :)Jul 14 22:58
schestowitztacone: jason of mono-nono is in JapanJul 14 22:58
trmancothat's what mozilla get for supporting windows :-PJul 14 22:58
trmancotacone, used? or starts up?Jul 14 22:58
trmancothat's only on linux thoughJul 14 22:58
schestowitztacone: like IE does with shared libsJul 14 22:58
trmancoon windows it's somehwhat slower to startupJul 14 22:59
taconetrmanco: i didn't tried last version. but it was istantanouesJul 14 22:59
taconeit was slower to close than to startJul 14 22:59
trmancotacone, it still isJul 14 22:59
trmancoI'm using daily buildsJul 14 22:59
desutacone: just a weaboo :PJul 14 22:59
Chips_B_Malroyattack Silverlight for the auto updates (if its true) and you also attack monoJul 14 22:59
trmanconot reallyJul 14 22:59
taconechromium is awesome. it shot a load of pepper in mozilla's buttJul 14 22:59
desubtw, regarding that MSP thing, there's a university next to mine which is an MSP...Jul 14 22:59
*trmanco achimJul 14 22:59
schestowitztacone: but it has furJul 14 23:00
trmancoI still prefer Firefox thoughJul 14 23:00
taconeschestowitz: ?Jul 14 23:00
schestowitzFirefox buttJul 14 23:00
schestowitzCan't pepper itJul 14 23:00
trmancohahaJul 14 23:01
trmancowhat about if it's bald?Jul 14 23:01
taconechromium brought competition to every browserJul 14 23:02
taconebefore the war was just about standardJul 14 23:02
taconenow it's about speed. and that feels good.Jul 14 23:02
*magentar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 14 23:03
desuhttp://www.nopaste.com/p/aPAPDisFyJul 14 23:03
schestowitzNASA promises 'greatly improved' Moon landing footage < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/14/moon_landing_footage/ >Jul 14 23:04
trmancoyepJul 14 23:04
trmancoit's very smoothJul 14 23:04
schestowitztrmanco: it's like the unicornJul 14 23:05
schestowitzMythical animalJul 14 23:05
trmancotab dragging for exampleJul 14 23:05
schestowitzBut based on the pictures it's all furJul 14 23:05
schestowitzCuddly firefox.. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/323197997_5176664a77.jpg?v=0Jul 14 23:05
trmancohahaJul 14 23:06
trmancohow about the firefox girl?Jul 14 23:06
schestowitzdesu: thanks a millionJul 14 23:06
desuyou're welcomeJul 14 23:06
taconehttp://www.theopensourcerer.com/?p=1461Jul 14 23:07
schestowitztrmanco: what girl?Jul 14 23:08
trmancothe porn photoshop hoaxJul 14 23:08
trmancohttp://www.webair.it/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/hot-firefox-girl.jpgJul 14 23:08
trmancoballmer goes nuts againJul 14 23:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Ballmer Goes Nuts Again, Gets Confused As to What Type of Venue He's At: http://is.gd/1yUGEJul 14 23:11
taconebanshee about to fail karmic inclusion ?Jul 14 23:11
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TaQhey, did you guys see that? http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/14/banshee-ui-to-be-in-moonlight/Jul 14 23:14
trmancotacone, where did you see that?Jul 14 23:14
taconeapeboxJul 14 23:15
taconetrmanco: jo shield's blogJul 14 23:15
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trmancoI CJul 14 23:16
taconeuhhh please stop talking about monoJul 14 23:17
taconeplease stop !..Jul 14 23:17
taconestupid freaks, they don't even realize that people wouldn't even know about mono if it wasn't for anti-mono guys :DJul 14 23:17
TaQtacone: I don't think so. :-)Jul 14 23:17
taconethere are like 20 mono apps in the ubuntu repositoriesJul 14 23:18
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taconeand people wonder why devs are actracted to monoJul 14 23:18
taconehint: they aren't.Jul 14 23:18
taconethey're desperate to get devs to try mono, that's the truth.Jul 14 23:19
taconeif you strip novell sponsored apps like banshee and iFolder what's left ?Jul 14 23:19
TaQtacone: of course, like microsoft is desperate to devs like things like visual studioJul 14 23:19
trmancohttp://abock.org/blog-images/gcds-banshee-platform.pngJul 14 23:19
TaQtrmanco: cool uh (btw, I'm ironic)? :-)Jul 14 23:20
trmancoc00l? that just mad me sadJul 14 23:21
trmancomade*Jul 14 23:21
taconerms sexist stuff http://mdzlog.alcor.net/?p=449Jul 14 23:21
taconeby the canonical ceoJul 14 23:21
TaQtrmanco: as I said, I was being ironicJul 14 23:22
trmancoyeah, I didn't skip thatJul 14 23:23
trmancopartJul 14 23:23
trmancoI was just saying how I'm feeling right nowJul 14 23:23
schestowitzdesu: http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Microsoft_Technical_EvangelistsJul 14 23:24
schestowitzSee if you can find errors...Jul 14 23:24
schestowitzI think I found a smoking gunJul 14 23:24
schestowitzI thought Brian Prince was from GartnerJul 14 23:25
schestowitzBut maybe it's another "Prince"Jul 14 23:25
schestowitztacone: yeah, I know the feelingJul 14 23:26
schestowitzI also don't want to hear about OOXMLJul 14 23:26
schestowitzBut I can't ignore that MASSIVE fraudJul 14 23:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] RT @robbieferguson http://Category5.TV - the live tech broadcast is soon to begin. Join the live chat room to get your questions in.Jul 14 23:27
taconeschestowitz: i can't understand what that guy is saying.Jul 14 23:27
desuumm... finding errors would be difficult since it was created automatically via a javascript :/Jul 14 23:27
taconewhat's his stance ?Jul 14 23:27
schestowitzdesu: short intro placeholderJul 14 23:28
schestowitzIt'll grow over timeJul 14 23:28
schestowitzI recognise some of themJul 14 23:28
schestowitzEach one has his own shilling secretsJul 14 23:28
schestowitzA little fiver here and there... some lunch with someone... exchancging favours, I guess... crashing eventsJul 14 23:29
desuohJul 14 23:29
schestowitzSo it was true...Jul 14 23:29
schestowitzBanshee for video..Jul 14 23:29
schestowitzFor everythingJul 14 23:29
schestowitzMaybe Windows DRMJul 14 23:30
schestowitzNovell already builds GNOME 3.0 they saidJul 14 23:30
schestowitzNo specificsJul 14 23:30
schestowitzNow we see..Jul 14 23:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Oops he did it again! – Ballmer has another one of his “moments”? http://tinyurl.com/mnw39g #microsoft #windows #windows7 #7 #vistaJul 14 23:31
schestowitzBallmer needs counsellingsJul 14 23:32
schestowitzThese people can't walk out on the street safelyJul 14 23:32
schestowitzIf they don't take him to the doctor he'll break more furniture. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVMy0PFr8noJul 14 23:33
trmancoBanshee to take them to the bathroom, and Banshee to wipe there asses after that tooJul 14 23:34
trmancothey should really start a desktop environment based on monoJul 14 23:35
trmancoI suggest MonoDropJul 14 23:35
schestowitzBallmer must be an abusive patent and spouse. He's scaringly eccentric and in a violent wayJul 14 23:35
schestowitzIt's not about personal life as much as about character in businessJul 14 23:36
trmancoto stop the gnome poisoningJul 14 23:36
trmancoand future kde tooJul 14 23:36
schestowitzYou can realise why Microsoft commits many crimes when you see such videosJul 14 23:36
*pk has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jul 14 23:36
schestowitzOne guy thinks he's a monster that controls the worldJul 14 23:36
schestowitz(that's pinky)Jul 14 23:36
taconehttp://mono-nono.com/2009/07/14/banshee-ui-to-be-in-moonlight/ is scaring indeedJul 14 23:36
schestowitzAnd another conceited guy mocks the judgesJul 14 23:36
taconevery scaring.Jul 14 23:36
schestowitzSports site sues Facebook for click fraud http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/14/rootzoo_sues_facebook_for_click_fraud/Jul 14 23:40
taconehttp://www.figuiere.net/hub/blog/?2009/07/10/678-i-write-code lolJul 14 23:42
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schestowitzBallmer is now spreading Chrome OS FUDJul 14 23:49
schestowitzLike he did with AndroidJul 14 23:49
schestowitz"it's words on paper"Jul 14 23:49
schestowitzAnd now it's taking market from Windows MobileJul 14 23:49
schestowitztacone: he doesn't need tp "be afraid"Jul 14 23:50
schestowitzCause he's not working for RedmondJul 14 23:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Lawsuit Filed Against Stimulus Act http://ping.fm/P47liJul 14 23:52
*Tallken has quit ("Leaving.")Jul 14 23:53
Chips_B_MalroyI keep trying to show the M$ Shills that they need to have some kind of code of honestly,  but they have no shame.Jul 14 23:53
*TaQ (n=taq@189.79.235.219) has left #boycottnovellJul 14 23:56
schestowitzMinceR: Asay calls those who don't want MS in FOSS "Extremists"? http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10286679-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoadJul 14 23:58
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: they have noneJul 14 23:58
schestowitzJust ignore themJul 14 23:58
schestowitzDon't open up for themJul 14 23:58
schestowitzit's poor investment of time to engage with shillsJul 14 23:59
schestowitzStay on topic, promote FSJul 14 23:59

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