| Chips_B_Malroy | Yes, agreed. Best not to feed them. But when exposed, then at first its needs to be "piled on" some. to make sure that other readers understand why this company is doing morally wrong | Jul 15 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | I did that | Jul 15 00:03 |
| schestowitz | See FP | Jul 15 00:03 |
| schestowitz | Many people read that post. I don't know why. Maybe StumbleUpon | Jul 15 00:03 |
| schestowitz | After all the DDOS attacks I no longer have awstats with which to check such stuff | Jul 15 00:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | most likely the ddos'er reads your logs Roy, be careful | Jul 15 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: we don't talk about it in this channel | Jul 15 00:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok | Jul 15 00:09 |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 15 00:09 | |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: we keep a smaller family in #boycottnovell-social | Jul 15 00:11 |
| schestowitz | Trusted people | Jul 15 00:11 |
| schestowitz | maybe I should post some Linux links | Jul 15 00:12 |
| schestowitz | I'm not feelin' tired today..... :-) | Jul 15 00:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/microsoft-ooxml-and-iso "You say: "Microsoft plays to win ..." Not true. Microsoft is not really concerned about winning. It is primarily concerned about making sure that EVERYONE ELSE LOSES. | Jul 15 00:13 |
| schestowitz | " | Jul 15 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Vandalise competition to ensure there is none | Jul 15 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Then lie back as people must buy a computer with Windows | Jul 15 00:14 |
| schestowitz | It's like a totalitarian government that mutilates all potential presidential candidates | Jul 15 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is the Tienanmen of Software | Jul 15 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Hacker group declares war < http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/141977/from/rss09 > | Jul 15 00:17 |
| tessier_ | schestowitz: Are you moderating comments on BN? I have emails bouncing to me address to wordpress@boycottnovell.com. You want me to set it up so that these go somewhere or just trash them? | Jul 15 00:19 |
| thenixedreport | They are not true hackers. | Jul 15 00:19 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes, please | Jul 15 00:20 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sun appears to be in terrible shape financially, but key products are GPL-ed. http://ping.fm/r88Ds | Jul 15 00:20 | |
| schestowitz | I don't know how to set up mail accounts without the front ends | Jul 15 00:20 |
| thenixedreport | True hackers want to truly understand how things work, even when things are broken. | Jul 15 00:20 |
| schestowitz | Catch-all address would do | Jul 15 00:20 |
| thenixedreport | This "anti-sec" group is suspicious to me. | Jul 15 00:20 |
| schestowitz | thenixedreport: agreed. | Jul 15 00:21 |
| schestowitz | crackers maybe | Jul 15 00:21 |
| thenixedreport | Nope. | Jul 15 00:21 |
| thenixedreport | Just idiots. | Jul 15 00:21 |
| schestowitz | "Hackers" was defaced so to speak | Jul 15 00:21 |
| schestowitz | To daemise playful cleverness{Tm} | Jul 15 00:21 |
| thenixedreport | I wouldn't be surprised if these people were being paid by the same corporations that they supposedly oppose. | Jul 15 00:21 |
| thenixedreport | The group wants to interefere with the free flow of information, which is a blatant violation of the hacker ethic. | Jul 15 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Alrighty... let's see some Linux news :-D | Jul 15 00:27 |
| *_Goblin has quit ("Lost terminal") | Jul 15 00:28 | |
| schestowitz | tessier: the bounces were likely notifications of delay | Jul 15 00:29 |
| schestowitz | The E-mails are not crucial, but having them written to disk in ~/mail would be handy | Jul 15 00:29 |
| tessier_ | schestowitz: Ok, I'll create a mail folder for user boycottn and dump all mail in there for you to deal with as you please | Jul 15 00:34 |
| schestowitz | tessier: thanks! | Jul 15 00:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Top Way to Use Old PCs is to Use GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/7pJrc | Jul 15 00:56 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's OEM Success with Linux Shows Why Microsoft+Their Analysts Can't Help FUDing Chrome OS http://ping.fm/B3idR | Jul 15 00:58 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Android and Chrome OS May as Well Converge on Large and Small Devices http://ping.fm/haIPg | Jul 15 01:05 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The spin now is that Chrome OS may hurt Linux. The truth is (at least so far) is that Chrome OS is another GNU/Linux distro. | Jul 15 01:06 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jul 15 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Did you see my post? | Jul 15 01:07 |
| schestowitz | I responded to that FUD | Jul 15 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Chrome is GOOD for Linux | Jul 15 01:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why GNU/Linux Servers Are Better (Cartoon) http://ping.fm/5st3j | Jul 15 01:09 | |
| schestowitz | The Schlesinger troll is rating his own comments somehow. | Jul 15 01:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, I read your article Roy. But I have even seen that point made in linux forums. | Jul 15 01:14 |
| schestowitz | Which ones? | Jul 15 01:14 |
| schestowitz | My article was poor | Jul 15 01:15 |
| schestowitz | I contructed it poorly from the start | Jul 15 01:15 |
| schestowitz | And never had time or desire to mend it | Jul 15 01:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux 2.6.31 Reaches Third RC http://ping.fm/FlC2L | Jul 15 01:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review and Benchmarks of the Latest btrfs in Linux http://ping.fm/5UTDT | Jul 15 01:19 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu Derivative Linux Mint 7 Tested by a Microsoft Dude http://ping.fm/4CZbe | Jul 15 01:25 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mark Shuttleworth Talks About GNOME 3.0 and Ubuntu http://ping.fm/5VUsz http://ping.fm/ERHOa | Jul 15 01:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Sub-notebooks to Get HyperSpace Fast Boot http://ping.fm/Z4Kwn | Jul 15 01:29 | |
| *googol (n=fewa@174-21-105-2.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 15 01:29 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Sub-notebooks Cost Just AU$499 http://ping.fm/PaGxT | Jul 15 01:31 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | will Intel dump low end cpu's to stop ARM? | Jul 15 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Not sure. | Jul 15 01:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox 3.5 Seen as Safer Than Swiss Cheese (Internet Explorer) http://ping.fm/7RpCg | Jul 15 01:35 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ActiveX Turns Internet Explorer to ZombieMaker(R) Again http://ping.fm/QUY29 | Jul 15 01:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Free Software Journal is Launched to Cover Legal Matters http://ping.fm/Ot3Y7 http://ping.fm/o52AS | Jul 15 01:40 | |
| googol | Chips_B_Malroy, Intel cant provide ARM's power efficiency | Jul 15 01:40 |
| *googol is now known as fewa | Jul 15 01:40 | |
| schestowitz | They need to get ARM patents | Jul 15 01:40 |
| schestowitz | And dump x86 | Jul 15 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Diesel engine | Jul 15 01:40 |
| fewa | x86 just isnt capable of that | Jul 15 01:41 |
| schestowitz | The Schlesinger troll is now too busy attacking readers who do and say nothing wrong (Jose): http://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/13/mono-vs-richard-stallman-tactic/#comments | Jul 15 01:42 |
| schestowitz | This guy is there just to ruin the site, IMHO | Jul 15 01:42 |
| fewa | but why cant Intel make other ISA processors? | Jul 15 01:42 |
| fewa | they have the tech for it | Jul 15 01:42 |
| schestowitz | fewa: I'm no semi-conductor expert, but Intel hasn't the skills and deswigns | Jul 15 01:42 |
| schestowitz | IBM has some x86 patents | Jul 15 01:43 |
| schestowitz | And Sun's SPARC has better chance on energy | Jul 15 01:43 |
| schestowitz | Than x86 | Jul 15 01:43 |
| fewa | hmm, so all that is keeping Intel afload is patents and scale? | Jul 15 01:43 |
| schestowitz | I only designed a calculator in processor design, but I don't know how each architecture varies | Jul 15 01:43 |
| schestowitz | Intel is built for power | Jul 15 01:43 |
| schestowitz | ARM has ticklessness and all in mind | Jul 15 01:44 |
| schestowitz | ARM=small | Jul 15 01:44 |
| fewa | cause its not like any distrobuting computing uses anything other than x86 | Jul 15 01:44 |
| schestowitz | Intel=big, strong... like a truck | Jul 15 01:44 |
| fewa | xcept in supercomputers | Jul 15 01:44 |
| schestowitz | Not true | Jul 15 01:44 |
| schestowitz | Some Power Blades run in HPC | Jul 15 01:44 |
| schestowitz | Fedroa | Jul 15 01:44 |
| fewa | but the fab plants are not tied to any type of semiconductor | Jul 15 01:45 |
| schestowitz | PPC | Jul 15 01:45 |
| fewa | I am above my head too... | Jul 15 01:45 |
| fewa | But I dont think Intel would incapable of competing in a open market | Jul 15 01:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MSBBC to Cover Free Software in a Special Programme http://ping.fm/nHA7w | Jul 15 01:47 | |
| schestowitz | Intel's problems are real | Jul 15 01:47 |
| schestowitz | They sakced 6000 | Jul 15 01:47 |
| schestowitz | Profit fell 90% | Jul 15 01:47 |
| fewa | ? | Jul 15 01:47 |
| fewa | 86k? | Jul 15 01:47 |
| schestowitz | The world would be better without them | Jul 15 01:48 |
| schestowitz | Well, not my in-law | Jul 15 01:48 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Founder of Pirate Bay Meets GPL-licensed 3-D Printing http://ping.fm/nJo4P | Jul 15 01:52 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft is Fragmenting OSI, Just as It Wanted http://ping.fm/44UT9 | Jul 15 01:54 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The OSI was hijacked http://ping.fm/QMA6U | Jul 15 01:58 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apache Lucene Enters European Museums http://ping.fm/L4RKs | Jul 15 01:58 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Essay Shows That 'Original' Works Are Unoriginal (Against Intellectual Monopoly) http://ping.fm/d7Xr4 | Jul 15 01:59 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Norwegian ISP Says That MAFIAA Might Violate Democracy in Attack on TPB http://ping.fm/MQCih | Jul 15 02:03 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Even the British Police Does Not Honour Copyrights http://ping.fm/DcxSs | Jul 15 02:06 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Economic Problems Drive Ballmer Insane Again (Video) http://ping.fm/81LYg | Jul 15 02:10 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Employee Says Microsoft Should Sack 15,000 More Employees http://ping.fm/EUrPY | Jul 15 02:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Sells Off a Weak Division to Collect Some Money http://ping.fm/eqLwT | Jul 15 02:13 | |
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| schestowitz | Prince _Hicham_'s back | Jul 15 02:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ASUS Learns from Microsoft About AstroTurfing http://ping.fm/E9DPK | Jul 15 02:18 | |
| _Hicham_ | hi King Schestowitz! | Jul 15 02:18 |
| _Hicham_ | how r u doing ? | Jul 15 02:18 |
| schestowitz | I got demoted to peasant | Jul 15 02:21 |
| *schestowitz grabs pitchfork | Jul 15 02:21 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : why ? | Jul 15 02:22 |
| fewa | twitter's article hit front page | Jul 15 02:23 |
| fewa | http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/07/14/2137201/US-Postal-Service-Moves-To-GNULinux | Jul 15 02:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell Infects GNU/Linux with Microsoft Moonlight/Banshee http://ping.fm/Pvh64 | Jul 15 02:23 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mono Problems Dissected Further http://ping.fm/ozGIO http://ping.fm/tQti3 http://ping.fm/X5mS5 http://ping.fm/6XEN3 | Jul 15 02:23 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gnote Lead Developer Mocks Mono Banner http://ping.fm/Wmfyl | Jul 15 02:24 | |
| _Hicham_ | too sad that f-spot is now part of gnome | Jul 15 02:35 |
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| schestowitz | It's not | Jul 15 02:51 |
| schestowitz | Just Ubuntu | Jul 15 02:51 |
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| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/f-spot/ | Jul 15 03:15 |
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| tessier | I need to move some cabling around so BN is going to be down temporarily. Sorry for the inconvenient. Will be back up ASAP. | Jul 15 04:17 |
| tessier | inconvenience. Hopefully 15 min or so. | Jul 15 04:17 |
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| thenixedreport | http://digg.com/security/Anti_Sec_Not_a_True_Hacker_Group_NIXEDBLOG_3_0 | Jul 15 04:27 |
| thenixedreport | Enjoy! | Jul 15 04:27 |
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| yuhong | On Google and software patents, here is an article where a software patent supporter claim that Google would be harmed without them: | Jul 15 05:15 |
| yuhong | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080722/0851291757.shtml | Jul 15 05:15 |
| yuhong | Hint: Look at who the software patent supporter is. | Jul 15 05:15 |
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| ut oh, BN is down. Another DDos? | Jul 15 05:36 | |
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| thenixedreport | Hmm... | Jul 15 05:48 |
| thenixedreport | Maybe. | Jul 15 05:48 |
| thenixedreport | Or the server could be under maintainence. | Jul 15 05:48 |
| thenixedreport | There have been times when I couldn't access my own site at 4 in the morning. | Jul 15 05:48 |
| thenixedreport | Later in the day, everything was fine. | Jul 15 05:48 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 15 05:48 |
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| ha ha, M$ licensing headaches make problems for their "free" online office http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/168437/microsoft_customers_face_license_hurdle_to_online_apps.html | Jul 15 06:19 | |
| -> Most large Microsoft customers have enterprise contracts that require them to purchase a client access license (CALs) for employees using Microsoft's OS and [whatever] ... The complexity arises when people want to add users to an existing enterprise contract or if they want to form a new enterprise contract that includes both software and hosted services, | Jul 15 06:20 | |
| As if their licensing and BSA threats were not Byzantine and threatening enough. | Jul 15 06:21 | |
| -> Microsoft confirmed that the number of users on contract for subscription services cannot exceed the number of CALs with SA that the customer already has. | Jul 15 06:22 | |
| So you have to wonder if big dumb companies have to buy licenses so their employees can use the "FREE" online office programs. | Jul 15 06:23 | |
| Enough goodies to drag people from Google Docs, but not enough to make them quit using M$ Office. Fat chance. | Jul 15 06:24 | |
| People who want features can have OO and reasonable file formats. People who want no effort sharing go with Google. There's not a lot of room for M$ licenses in the middle of that squeeze. | Jul 15 06:26 | |
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| MinceR | schestowitz: we still care what that idiot asay writes? | Jul 15 06:37 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: No, I show you what to take OSI for. | Jul 15 08:28 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft ruins it | Jul 15 08:28 |
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| schestowitz | Good news today | Jul 15 08:41 |
| schestowitz | Posts coming :-pp | Jul 15 08:41 |
| schestowitz | I'll then do Comes | Jul 15 08:41 |
| schestowitz | tessier_: thanks for the work on the server | Jul 15 08:41 |
| schestowitz | I see my mbox now too | Jul 15 08:41 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] Ballmer's lost his mind. RT: @schestowitz: Economic Problems Drive Ballmer Insane Again (Video) http://ping.fm/81LYg | Jul 15 08:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] This is just sad... RT: @schestowitz: Economic Problems Drive Ballmer Insane Again (Video) http://ping.fm/81LYg | Jul 15 08:48 | |
| Diablo-D3 | http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/boingboing/iBag/~3/0j_CXUnBi2M/visa-claims-teen-spe.html | Jul 15 08:50 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Journal Confirms Microsoft Looks to Shed Over 2,000 Employees, Microsoft Employee Thinks 15,000 More Should be Let Go http://ping.fm/2a81g | Jul 15 09:21 | |
| MinceR | schestowitz: that's independent of asay | Jul 15 09:27 |
| MinceR | at least until he somehow gets into the leadership of the OSI :> | Jul 15 09:27 |
| schestowitz | He helped Microsoft | Jul 15 09:27 |
| schestowitz | I showed you before | Jul 15 09:27 |
| MinceR | just like most crApple fanboys would | Jul 15 09:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh | Jul 15 09:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know | Jul 15 09:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | microsoft wouldnt be so bad if they knew how to write software. | Jul 15 09:31 |
| MinceR | but then they wouldn't be microsoft | Jul 15 09:31 |
| MinceR | the only thing they've ever been interested about IT was the idea that they could get rich with it | Jul 15 09:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im serious though | Jul 15 09:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | they'd kill the foss movement overnight if their shit suddenly stopped sucking | Jul 15 09:36 |
| MinceR | i wouldn't go that far | Jul 15 09:36 |
| MinceR | especially if i consider the question of whether they can really stop sucking while remaining the assholes they are | Jul 15 09:37 |
| MinceR | for example, can you stop sucking if you keep ignoring standards? | Jul 15 09:37 |
| MinceR | also, stopping sucking would require a change of priorities | Jul 15 09:37 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft UK’s Chief ‘Accomplice’ Jumps Ship http://ping.fm/tJq0M | Jul 15 09:38 | |
| schestowitz | Turns out on the 13th we had over 10k unique IPs | Jul 15 09:41 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Peter Messerli is vice-President of the EPO and member of the EPOorg EBA, where is the seperation of powers? http://bit.ly/oOTF6 | Jul 15 10:03 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mono Applications Get Integrated with Microsoft Moonlight http://ping.fm/xvAaF | Jul 15 10:33 | |
| tacone | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/one-thing-nobody-told-you-about-mono/ | Jul 15 10:33 |
| *schestowitz reads | Jul 15 10:35 | |
| schestowitz | LMAO | Jul 15 10:35 |
| schestowitz | "Wow. Know what ? I'm more scared of jerks" | Jul 15 10:36 |
| Ng | mdz is Canonical's CTO, not CEO ;) | Jul 15 10:36 |
| tacone | ulp | Jul 15 10:36 |
| tacone | corrected | Jul 15 10:37 |
| schestowitz | tacone: brillian post | Jul 15 10:37 |
| tacone | pft | Jul 15 10:37 |
| tacone | lazy one | Jul 15 10:37 |
| schestowitz | New method: | Jul 15 10:37 |
| tacone | i am so angry. | Jul 15 10:37 |
| schestowitz | You support RMS? | Jul 15 10:37 |
| schestowitz | You support RMS on Mono? | Jul 15 10:37 |
| schestowitz | Then you're a chauvinist. | Jul 15 10:37 |
| tacone | that's so coward | Jul 15 10:37 |
| tacone | we should let people know how much desperate they are about getting developers to use c# | Jul 15 10:38 |
| tacone | they have 20 apps circa.. | Jul 15 10:38 |
| Ng | but most of the posts coming out of GCDS about RMS' speech and the "I'm not afraid" banners are from people who don't code in C# | Jul 15 10:39 |
| tacone | they depict it as a great success which is difficult to resist to, nothwithstanding patent issues | Jul 15 10:39 |
| Ng | the vast majority of the gnome guys are firmly wedded to C | Jul 15 10:39 |
| tacone | the truth is devs just don't care about mono. | Jul 15 10:39 |
| tacone | if you exclude banshee paid devs and 2-3 other guys :) | Jul 15 10:39 |
| tacone | gtg | Jul 15 10:40 |
| tacone | bye | Jul 15 10:40 |
| *Ng blinks | Jul 15 10:40 | |
| Ng | you just contradicted yourself | Jul 15 10:40 |
| Ng | first you say that the posters are desparate to get people to use C#, now only 6 people care about mono | Jul 15 10:40 |
| schestowitz | Ng: are you related to "Adventure Game Studio Editor and Runtime"? | Jul 15 10:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | not many people actually care about or use mono, Ng | Jul 15 10:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | it seems its a solution in search of a problem a lot of the time | Jul 15 10:42 |
| Ng | schestowitz: to what? | Jul 15 10:42 |
| schestowitz | I am trying to figure out how many people in this channel are Mono developers | Jul 15 10:42 |
| schestowitz | Think of it as disclosure | Jul 15 10:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: I wouldn't be surprised inf all 3 of them are in here | Jul 15 10:42 |
| Ng | I've written one tiny plugin for GNOME Do, and I strongly dislike C# as a result of that experience. I care about mono only in that I like F-spot and tomboy :) | Jul 15 10:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ng: so why havent you picked up java 6 yet? | Jul 15 10:43 |
| Ng | Diablo-D3: why would I do that? java is irrelevant and stupid :) | Jul 15 10:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | and C# isnt? | Jul 15 10:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | c# has virtually the same syntax as java5/6, it uses a bytecode engine similar to a typical java vm, it has a base class library that in some respects is similar to java's | Jul 15 10:44 |
| Ng | Diablo-D3: C# is an unfriendly language. the CLI is an interesting idea that doesn't solve a problem I care about. Java isn't an awful language, and its JVM solves a problem I don't care about (also I find that Java applications tend to be a nightmare to deploy/maintain) | Jul 15 10:44 |
| Ng | one obvious difference would be that Mono has made more effort to integrate into a GNOME desktop than Java has | Jul 15 10:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ng: what do you prefer then? | Jul 15 10:44 |
| Ng | Diablo-D3: python is my language of choice these days :) | Jul 15 10:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ahh, no wonder you have weird ideas about programming. | Jul 15 10:45 |
| Ng | I'm not a programmer, I just fiddle around with things in my spare time :) | Jul 15 10:45 |
| Ng | if F-Spot was written in Java and was essentially the same to use, I'd still be using it | Jul 15 10:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | Interesting... so you like using broken software? | Jul 15 10:47 |
| Ng | why do you say that? | Jul 15 10:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | Can't stand F-Spot. | Jul 15 10:48 |
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| Ng | that's very nice for you, but it doesn't translate into it being "broken software" :) | Jul 15 10:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | It directly translates to broken software in at least 4 languages including Russian. | Jul 15 10:49 |
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| Ng | Diablo-D3: I appreciate that I may not be familiar with bugs relating to translations because I'm a native English speaker. I would hope/expect that translation bugs would be fixed | Jul 15 10:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | I think you missed the joke. | Jul 15 10:54 |
| Ng | I guess so | Jul 15 10:54 |
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| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26291/1090/ | Jul 15 11:06 |
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| Ng | hah, the sexism stick comes out again | Jul 15 11:11 |
| Ng | it's weird that everyone is chucking that into their arguments in the tabloid style of "here's one ostensibly bad thing about this person, therefore everything else about them is bad!" | Jul 15 11:11 |
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| Diablo-D3 | Ng: yeah no shit | Jul 15 11:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, miguel has probably slept with microsoft provided women of the night | Jul 15 11:12 |
| Ng | err | Jul 15 11:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | but do I bring it up on my blog? no | Jul 15 11:12 |
| Ng | don't you think that's a pretty silly thing to even think? | Jul 15 11:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | of course not | Jul 15 11:13 |
| *Ng boggles | Jul 15 11:14 | |
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| popey | Missed this place | Jul 15 11:15 |
| Ng | Diablo-D3: I'm assuming you have no evidence for any such idea and are just projecting your dislike of mono onto miguel? | Jul 15 11:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ng: well, miguel has money and is married to a super model chick | Jul 15 11:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | what else could microsoft tempt him with? | Jul 15 11:15 |
| Ng | Diablo-D3: why does your thinking require that microsoft tempted him with some form of depravity? | Jul 15 11:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | its microsoft, its the only thing they know. | Jul 15 11:16 |
| Ng | they have a history of spreading their technology via prostitutes? | Jul 15 11:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats not the only thing. ;) | Jul 15 11:17 |
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| Ng | Diablo-D3: I think you need to do some more serious thinking about this. Software choices is no reason to say things like what you just said about Miguel. Disagree with him all you like, but don't stoop to that kind of skewed nonsense | Jul 15 11:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ng: why? he does it against FOSS all the time | Jul 15 11:19 |
| Ng | Diablo-D3: Miguel accuses FOSS of bribing people with sex workers? | Jul 15 11:19 |
| popey | [[citation needed]] | Jul 15 11:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | No, he openly slanders FOSS projects. | Jul 15 11:20 |
| Ng | you are aware that miguel is a FOSS developer, right? | Jul 15 11:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | He is a former foss developer, yes | Jul 15 11:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | I don't consider Mono free due to the inherit Microsoft license/patent bomb. | Jul 15 11:20 |
| Ng | I'm not sure what slander it is exactly you're referring to, but even if he completely changed sides and said FOSS was a complete mistake and proprietary software was the future, in what way does that justify you saying he's bribed by Microsoft with "women of the night"? | Jul 15 11:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | Like I said, what else could they bribe him with? | Jul 15 11:22 |
| Ng | [11:35] < Ng> Diablo-D3: why does your thinking require that microsoft tempted him with some form of depravity? | Jul 15 11:22 |
| Ng | we've just gone circular :) | Jul 15 11:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | Yup, and this is clearly a Microsoft plot. | Jul 15 11:22 |
| Ng | "clearly"? | Jul 15 11:22 |
| Ng | why is Miguel not allowed to have thought "hey this CLI is an interesting idea, let's re-implement it as FOSS"? | Jul 15 11:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | Because you can ignore patents all you want, but they still can sue you. | Jul 15 11:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | I don't trust Microsoft to not backstab all their new users and developers using Mono as the knife | Jul 15 11:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | Microsoft has a history of alienating users and developers. | Jul 15 11:24 |
| Ng | and there's no way that Miguel (or more accurately, Ximian) could have thought that the patent issue wasn't really a problem? | Jul 15 11:25 |
| Ng | they must have been bribed? | Jul 15 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | Microsoft would have to issue a non-revocable license to all Mono users past, present, and future on all patents that currently or will in the future cover technology in .Net that has or will leak over to Mono | Jul 15 11:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | Then, and only then, is it a non-issue. | Jul 15 11:27 |
| Ng | the kernel people don't care about overt threats from Microsoft about patents, I've not seen any caring from the Samba people. Why is Mono special? | Jul 15 11:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | Because Microsoft doesn't pay for Linux or Samba development. | Jul 15 11:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | Novell is being paid to develop Mono by Microsoft. | Jul 15 11:28 |
| Ng | so? | Jul 15 11:28 |
| Ng | that doesn't seem to relate to patents at all | Jul 15 11:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | Mono may contain software that Microsoft currently holds a patent for. | Jul 15 11:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | 'May' because its not if Mono does or not, its if Microsoft thinks they can sue Mono users over it. | Jul 15 11:29 |
| Ng | I'm pretty damn certain that a complete FOSS stack contains software that microsoft and others hold patents for | Jul 15 11:29 |
| Ng | it seems like it's almost impossible to write a significant amount of software without infringing on a stupid software patents :/ | Jul 15 11:30 |
| Ng | which brings me back to why mono is special | Jul 15 11:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | Because Microsoft made it special. | Jul 15 11:30 |
| Ng | microsoft have directly said that the kernel infringes over 200 of their patents, and have sued at least one OEM for a VFAT patent, but the kernel people laughed at the former and are in no hurry to patch out that latter | Jul 15 11:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | So? | Jul 15 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | Microsoft is using Mono as the spearhead for some giant legal battle | Jul 15 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | Its the culmination of a decade of legal maneuvering. | Jul 15 11:31 |
| zilog | comes down to believing MS's promise which is in writing and seems quite binding, or a fear of patents that may or may not exist, and as the kernel developers dont live in fear of patents, neither should mono developers. imo | Jul 15 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | zilog: linux and projects under the FSF umbrella dont have to worry | Jul 15 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | they have huge legal funds | Jul 15 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | but joe blow that makes $35k a year and lives in the middle of nowhere and writes software has a hobby _does_ have to worry | Jul 15 11:32 |
| Ng | Diablo-D3: in the most literal meaning of the acronym I think that's FUD, but mainly I just don't think it matters, nobody can afford to spark a patent nuclear war | Jul 15 11:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ng: microsoft can, actually | Jul 15 11:33 |
| harrytuttle | zilog: what do you think would be the public perception if MS would sue someone over Java, Firefox or Linuxkernel? | Jul 15 11:33 |
| Ng | Diablo-D3: they really can't | Jul 15 11:33 |
| zilog | that comes down to the GPL, if you call FOSS is GPL then mono being GPL also falls under that protection, as well as patent protection, by the terms of the license | Jul 15 11:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | zilog: notice its not GPL3 | Jul 15 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | only 2 | Jul 15 11:34 |
| zilog | Thats right, as is the Linux Kernel. | Jul 15 11:34 |
| zilog | So ? | Jul 15 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | if microsoft released code themselves under GPL3 that related to patents that may or may not be problematic, the whole problem would go away | Jul 15 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | GPL3 doesnt allow you to intentionally patent bomb people | Jul 15 11:35 |
| zilog | main difference between V2 and V3 is tivoisation and that does not have any affect in this case. | Jul 15 11:35 |
| harrytuttle | zilog: just think of it: why wouldnt MS be that stupid and sue anyone over lets say Java or Linux kernel? | Jul 15 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | harrytuttle: to be fair | Jul 15 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | why is microsoft stupid enough think they're still relevant via their software? | Jul 15 11:35 |
| Ng | zilog: v3 does strengthen the language on patents too | Jul 15 11:35 |
| zilog | It's the GPL itself that says if you're code is patent encumbered you are not allowed to license it under the GPL. | Jul 15 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only thing they _can_ due is sue to survive | Jul 15 11:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | from a purely business aspect, they now must play hardball against the rest of the world. | Jul 15 11:36 |
| harrytuttle | their goal is to make others pay for their APIs | Jul 15 11:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | harrytuttle: it wouldnt be a problem if their APIs didnt suck | Jul 15 11:36 |
| harrytuttle | they dont care if their OS is secure or better | Jul 15 11:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'd gladly pay for and use Microsoft products if they were the superior solution | Jul 15 11:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | but they're not | Jul 15 11:37 |
| harrytuttle | Windows is only a tool, a money-generating tool | Jul 15 11:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | this is why Microsoft is dangerous | Jul 15 11:37 |
| harrytuttle | its the thousands of apps built on their apis which doesnt allow cross-plattform which is their jewels | Jul 15 11:37 |
| harrytuttle | so why in hell would they allow true cross-platform like Mono? | Jul 15 11:37 |
| schestowitz | Hey, popey. wb | Jul 15 11:37 |
| popey | thanks schestowitz | Jul 15 11:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | harrytuttle: exactly | Jul 15 11:38 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ASUS — Like Microsoft — Uses ‘Contests’ to Conceal AstroTurfing (Blog Posts in Exchange for Incentives) http://ping.fm/jLHCD | Jul 15 11:38 | |
| Diablo-D3 | Now, unbiasedly, I took Microsoft up on their offer | Jul 15 11:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | "cross platform development, and we support it" | Jul 15 11:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | I used C# for a month. | Jul 15 11:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | Never. Ever. Again. | Jul 15 11:38 |
| tacone | not that cross platform. I still have to see the banshee for windows release. | Jul 15 11:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, to get a working GUI toolkit, you have to use gtk# | Jul 15 11:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | if you want concurrent stuff, you have to write it yourself | Jul 15 11:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | .net 4.0 added some, but its not out yet and mono doesnt support it | Jul 15 11:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | (or used locks and die from the speed loss) | Jul 15 11:40 |
| harrytuttle | zilog: they cant and wouldnt sue over Java or the Linux kernel, because that would make them look soooo bad, it would kill their reputation instantly for EVERYONE | Jul 15 11:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | s/used/use/ | Jul 15 11:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | and theres no 3D api thats portable | Jul 15 11:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | XNA only works on Windows and Mono-XNA (which is not a Mono project) stalled development 2 years ago and has no 3D work done | Jul 15 11:41 |
| harrytuttle | but they will sue or threaten to sue when not getting payed over anything that they can remotely claim and made look like its "theirs" | Jul 15 11:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres two opengl toolkits and they're both nightmares to work with | Jul 15 11:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | java has native support for opengl. | Jul 15 11:42 |
| harrytuttle | zilog : going legal after the kernel via patents is public suicide | Jul 15 11:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | I wish more people would use Java | Jul 15 11:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | Its the only way to defeat C# | Jul 15 11:43 |
| MinceR | o rly? | Jul 15 11:43 |
| zilog | If they did it, it would have to be for something that would stick, that may be hard. I dont think they really have that intension to do so, unless its blantant. | Jul 15 11:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: orly what | Jul 15 11:43 |
| MinceR | java being the only way to defeat c# | Jul 15 11:44 |
| MinceR | what happened to c++ and vala? | Jul 15 11:44 |
| harrytuttle | zilog: Java was invented before C# | Jul 15 11:44 |
| zilog | Linux itself is too much of a moving target, the best they would get is a few mil from torvalds | Jul 15 11:44 |
| harrytuttle | Mono is a direct decendant from .NET | Jul 15 11:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: c# was created to get back at sun for the microsoft java fuckup | Jul 15 11:45 |
| harrytuttle | so blatant would be much easier to establish i guess | Jul 15 11:45 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: so? | Jul 15 11:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: if java becomes popular on the desktop again, microsoft is fucked | Jul 15 11:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | sun would steamroll them with zero effort | Jul 15 11:45 |
| MinceR | there are many ways for m$ becoming fucked | Jul 15 11:45 |
| MinceR | in fact, they probably are already fucked no matter what they do | Jul 15 11:45 |
| zilog | Yes, I know Java is before C# but i dont see the point in that, they are two different things | Jul 15 11:45 |
| harrytuttle | Java isnt intergated well with a desktop API like Gnome GTK+ or QT is it? | Jul 15 11:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | harrytuttle: you keep saying that like it means something | Jul 15 11:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Microsoft behind the Stockholm Network biased index: http://bit.ly/EAQKM | Jul 15 11:46 | |
| MinceR | well, there are gtk and qt bindings for java | Jul 15 11:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | you can use gtk from java | Jul 15 11:46 |
| MinceR | it's just that they aren't used much | Jul 15 11:46 |
| MinceR | java comes with its own crappy toolkits and people insist on using those | Jul 15 11:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | java also provides a universal ui toolkit that uses native widgets | Jul 15 11:46 |
| harrytuttle | Diablo-D3: For Mono , its the convenient of "a complete package", what Team Mono is aiming for | Jul 15 11:47 |
| harrytuttle | meaning core, libs, ide | Jul 15 11:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | harrytuttle: so why doesnt microsoft include gtk# in .net then? | Jul 15 11:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | sun offers more than microsoft/novell do | Jul 15 11:47 |
| harrytuttle | thats part of Team Mono... | Jul 15 11:47 |
| harrytuttle | MS doesnt want its dirty hands | Jul 15 11:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | at least on java I can do 3D graphics with no third party frameworks | Jul 15 11:48 |
| zilog | because gtk# and .net are two different things. | Jul 15 11:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | zilog: yet the only way to have a functioning UI in a c# app is to use gtk# | Jul 15 11:48 |
| harrytuttle | MS doesnt want to help directly integrate Mono via GTK# | Jul 15 11:48 |
| MinceR | sounds like another thing they've managed to copy from java :> | Jul 15 11:48 |
| harrytuttle | what for? they have Windows | Jul 15 11:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | winforms, for example, is worse than awt, swt, or swing | Jul 15 11:49 |
| harrytuttle | Team Mono wants to build a window-framework consistent of Mono and replacing or "upgrading" the two main ones: KDE, Gnome | Jul 15 11:50 |
| zilog | thats why your welcome to develop your own winforms or linforms for that matter. | Jul 15 11:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | zilog: ahh! but there you go! | Jul 15 11:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have to do it | Jul 15 11:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | it should already be done for me | Jul 15 11:50 |
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| zilog | yes, thats what development is all about, you can use C# and you can use Mono and you can develop your own framework ontop of those tools. | Jul 15 11:51 |
| zilog | if you want too, | Jul 15 11:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | but thats not very cross platform is it. | Jul 15 11:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | Thus Mono fails. | Jul 15 11:51 |
| zilog | it is what it is, and if it does not do what you want it to do, use something that will. | Jul 15 11:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | Yes, and thus I use Java. | Jul 15 11:52 |
| harrytuttle | MS wants indirect control over Linux by pulling a gui-framework over the kernel which basic feat. are free but its full features will completely be "sauted in patents" | Jul 15 11:53 |
| harrytuttle | like FAT/VFAT | Jul 15 11:53 |
| harrytuttle | FAT is old and useless, and VFAT is patent trap | Jul 15 11:53 |
| zilog | again, dont use them then | Jul 15 11:54 |
| harrytuttle | so they let all that Mono-crap sink into Linux-Userland and when its entranched enough, because nobody cared about those patents, it will knock and ask for compensation | Jul 15 11:54 |
| zilog | who are they going to ask ? | Jul 15 11:56 |
| Ng | not me, software patents don't apply in Europe :) | Jul 15 11:56 |
| zilog | yes and no, TOMTOM is europian | Jul 15 11:57 |
| harrytuttle | they ask distros, who happen to ship with Mono apps/libs | Jul 15 11:57 |
| zilog | what distro's would have enough money to pay, who cant also print out the MS CP and use it in court to win against MS. | Jul 15 11:57 |
| harrytuttle | well, if they remove all apps that only those remain who apply to C#/CLI basic, they could do that | Jul 15 11:58 |
| harrytuttle | thats to cripple the competion | Jul 15 11:59 |
| harrytuttle | like MS trying to extent Java to make it split and hurt its advance | Jul 15 11:59 |
| harrytuttle | a common base for all distros to advance is what hurts MS | Jul 15 12:00 |
| zilog | If MS wanted to kill java, they would have bought SUN. | Jul 15 12:00 |
| harrytuttle | and then what? | Jul 15 12:00 |
| MinceR | sun directors and shareholders might have opposed that attempt | Jul 15 12:00 |
| zilog | owned Java, | Jul 15 12:00 |
| zilog | they might, thats right, just like every busines its not a hostile takeover. | Jul 15 12:01 |
| harrytuttle | wouldnt have been smart and helped them imho | Jul 15 12:01 |
| harrytuttle | like trying to buy netscape? | Jul 15 12:01 |
| harrytuttle | what for if the project advances right under a new name? | Jul 15 12:01 |
| zilog | and where is netscape now ? | Jul 15 12:02 |
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| harrytuttle | maybe that would have only fueled a free Java 3.0 for the better | Jul 15 12:02 |
| MinceR | also, what would m$ have done after the release of IcedTea anyway? | Jul 15 12:02 |
| harrytuttle | MS would have been left with a dead shell, what was once SUN | Jul 15 12:02 |
| harrytuttle | like Netsacpe is a dead shell | Jul 15 12:02 |
| harrytuttle | but the CODE lives on | Jul 15 12:02 |
| harrytuttle | even better than before | Jul 15 12:03 |
| harrytuttle | like RMS said: MS cant kill code thats not "their own", but they can try for their own code or spinoffs, for the effect to revert competition back to where they were before | Jul 15 12:04 |
| harrytuttle | Mono= wasted time and effort | Jul 15 12:04 |
| harrytuttle | Team Monos goal: make Mono+apps as tempting as possible so users wouldnt care for the finer details | Jul 15 12:05 |
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| harrytuttle | thats basically the strategy of MS and Apple btw | Jul 15 12:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] List of Microsoft “Technical Evangelists” (Lead AstroTurfers) http://ping.fm/11cm2 | Jul 15 12:07 | |
| schestowitz | Chinese Spying Claimed in Purchases of NSA Crypto Gear http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/07/export/ | Jul 15 12:38 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Judge Urged to Declare Bush Spy Program Illegal http://ping.fm/UJsnz | Jul 15 12:38 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New York Times to charge for online content http://ping.fm/7BxH1 Dinosaurs died this way. | Jul 15 12:46 | |
| schestowitz | Trivial Pursuit in Washington http://reason.com/news/show/134739.html | Jul 15 12:47 |
| schestowitz | Bush’s Secret NSA Spying May Have Tainted Prosecutions, Report Warns http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/07/psp/ | Jul 15 12:48 |
| schestowitz | Domestic surveillance program began soon after 9/11, intelligence agencies say http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/10/domestic-surveillance-program-began-soon-after-911-intelligence-agencies-say/ | Jul 15 12:48 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] North Korea army behind South web attack: report http://ping.fm/ov4vT Microsoft Windows was also behind these attacks. | Jul 15 12:48 | |
| schestowitz | Heh. Photo.... http://www.zeropaid.com/news/86615/swedish-copyright-group-wants-5000-pyr-permit-for-workplace-music/ | Jul 15 12:50 |
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| oiaohm | Great | Jul 15 12:52 |
| oiaohm | Incoming netsplit. | Jul 15 12:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Trying Arora, a Qt-Webkit browser with Firefox clone interface. http://is.gd/1zDZ4 Very fast and renders well. I like it. | Jul 15 12:53 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz think of them as Gollum going "my preciousssssssss". Bit like the National Portrait Gallery. | Jul 15 12:54 | |
| schestowitz | leguin.freenode.net down | Jul 15 13:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] If you find activity of theirs, add it to the Wiki, http://ping.fm/w9fvv , @davidgerard | Jul 15 13:06 | |
| *_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.248.136.48) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 15 13:13 | |
| _Hicham_ | hi all ! | Jul 15 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_ | Jul 15 13:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Microsoft Technical Evalgenist, i.e. paid astroturfer/shill, list: http://is.gd/1zEYO http://is.gd/1zEVH watch out for these names on blogs | Jul 15 13:14 | |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : do u know that f-spot is now officially part of gnome ? | Jul 15 13:14 |
| oiaohm | The art of picking battles. | Jul 15 13:16 |
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| ugufjhfj | LOL: http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/win7-vs-xp-adoption-rates.jpg | Jul 15 13:22 |
| schestowitz | Wow | Jul 15 13:24 |
| schestowitz | Just wow | Jul 15 13:24 |
| ugufjhfj | from Ed Bott | Jul 15 13:24 |
| schestowitz | Within 2 minutes of leaving the comment I am rated 4 time | Jul 15 13:24 |
| schestowitz | *times | Jul 15 13:24 |
| schestowitz | 1/5 | Jul 15 13:24 |
| schestowitz | The Mono fans are gaming the system | Jul 15 13:24 |
| schestowitz | They must be nervous | Jul 15 13:24 |
| fewa | ugufjhfj, LOLOLOL | Jul 15 13:24 |
| schestowitz | "Lefty" BTW is a Mac user | Jul 15 13:25 |
| schestowitz | Pretending to be a Linux guy | Jul 15 13:25 |
| schestowitz | And he hates the GPL and RMS | Jul 15 13:25 |
| schestowitz | It all comes together | Jul 15 13:25 |
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| schestowitz | ugufjhfj: spin | Jul 15 13:26 |
| schestowitz | They try to turn awful news to something selse | Jul 15 13:26 |
| schestowitz | The Microsoft yes men linked to it | Jul 15 13:26 |
| schestowitz | The PR agents at Seattle P-I for example | Jul 15 13:26 |
| schestowitz | Disguised as journos | Jul 15 13:26 |
| ugufjhfj | http://www.tomshardware.com/us/ see all news dedicated to vista 7 | Jul 15 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Nothing is as impressive as 95 by rates. People where buying it who knew nothing about computers. | Jul 15 13:30 |
| fewa | thats when microrosft started making 80% profit margin | Jul 15 13:32 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 adoption will be poor | Jul 15 13:33 |
| schestowitz | The spinner just jump for dolars | Jul 15 13:33 |
| fewa | the last people want to do is spend money | Jul 15 13:33 |
| schestowitz | ugufjhfj: I see just 3 Vista 7 headlines | Jul 15 13:33 |
| schestowitz | fewa: downgrading too | Jul 15 13:34 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 is the upgrade to the downgrade | Jul 15 13:34 |
| fewa | especially when vista 7 takes away features rather than adds them | Jul 15 13:34 |
| schestowitz | Upgrade to Vista | Jul 15 13:34 |
| schestowitz | But Vista is a downgrade of XP | Jul 15 13:34 |
| schestowitz | In RC, Vista 7 got a lot fatter | Jul 15 13:34 |
| schestowitz | Nobody knows why | Jul 15 13:34 |
| fewa | lol | Jul 15 13:35 |
| fewa | sell hardware | Jul 15 13:35 |
| oiaohm | MS is need to project extreamly high growth rates to keep investors happy. | Jul 15 13:39 |
| fewa | http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1302705&cid=28700231 Good comment | Jul 15 13:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #iran has enough of an economy for people to vote with their wallets: http://is.gd/1zGrg | Jul 15 13:41 | |
| zilog | what features does it take away? | Jul 15 13:41 |
| fewa | it adds anti-features | Jul 15 13:41 |
| zilog | such as ? | Jul 15 13:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | anti-features? THE BEST KIND | Jul 15 13:42 |
| fewa | DRM that breaks the computer, makes it slower | Jul 15 13:42 |
| zilog | ok | Jul 15 13:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | [08:41:39] <ugufjhfj> LOL: http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/win7-vs-xp-adoption-rates.jpg | Jul 15 13:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | whahahahahaha | Jul 15 13:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | what does his bullshit level say Vegita? | Jul 15 13:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | ITS OVER NINE THHOOUUUSSAAAAAAANNND | Jul 15 13:43 |
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| taq | hey | Jul 15 13:43 |
| taq | http://derstandard.at/?url=/?id=1216918402134 explains what we read yesterday about banshee | Jul 15 13:44 |
| oiaohm | http://www.youtube.com/v/-l_DSZe8_F8&hl=en&fs=1& Hmm desktop Linux still has a way to go. | Jul 15 13:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | FFFFFFFFF | Jul 15 13:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | taq: WHAT THE HELL | Jul 15 13:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | Miguel de Icaza: "We could refresh the look and feel of the entire desktop with Moonlight" | Jul 15 13:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | THAT DOESNT... WHAT.... SENSE..... ARGH | Jul 15 13:45 |
| taq | Diablo-D3: yeah, so the plans are there for a while | Jul 15 13:45 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] So Many Trolls, So Little GNU/Linux Users… http://ping.fm/6Hyw5 | Jul 15 14:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz is someone collecting dubious Bing results? e.g. http://is.gd/1zIcW | Jul 15 14:13 | |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: nice tune | Jul 15 14:15 |
| oiaohm | At 1 second start up times hibernation is pointless. | Jul 15 14:18 |
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| MinceR | only if all your apps you've used also start up | Jul 15 14:20 |
| schestowitz | Emacs starts faster | Jul 15 14:22 |
| schestowitz | It just needs a good editor | Jul 15 14:23 |
| oiaohm | http://www.gadgetell.com/tech/comment/microsoft-office-comes-to-linux/ << Ok not far enough yet. | Jul 15 14:25 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/985_signs.jpg | Jul 15 14:27 |
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| oiaohm | That is a classic redhat schestowitz | Jul 15 14:28 |
| oiaohm | I do mean classic. | Jul 15 14:28 |
| schestowitz | Wells Fargo Bank Sues Itself http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/al-lewis-wells-fargo-bank-sues/ | Jul 15 14:28 |
| schestowitz | Old news, new artuicle | Jul 15 14:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | man | Jul 15 14:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | why the fuck should linux tell me I have a new sound card | Jul 15 14:29 |
| oiaohm | That is a really old version of redhat Diablo-D3 | Jul 15 14:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | I know that... | Jul 15 14:30 |
| oiaohm | One of the versions before that got as warped as installing a system without a root user. | Jul 15 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | but the question is: why did it _ever_ do that | Jul 15 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | hah | Jul 15 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | that whole root user thing is overrated | Jul 15 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | its a common security trick to remove root and use sudo | Jul 15 14:30 |
| oiaohm | To be correct no user with a valid login. | Jul 15 14:30 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft warns of attacks on new ActiveX hole http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10285486-83.html | Jul 15 14:30 |
| schestowitz | In IE, server owns /you/ | Jul 15 14:31 |
| oiaohm | It was the first time I learnt how to manually add a password to a Linux system Diablo-D3 | Jul 15 14:31 |
| schestowitz | Browser runs the OS | Jul 15 14:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: you dont have to | Jul 15 14:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Netbooks Expected To Grab 20 Percent of World Market http://ping.fm/k6T5w which "market"? Phones included? Embedded devices? | Jul 15 14:33 | |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: if you have no valid logins, you can boot a livecd, chroot your real install, and run adduser | Jul 15 14:33 |
| MinceR | os1 runs browser1, browser1 runs os2, os2 runs browser2, browser2 runs os3, os3 runs browser3, ... | Jul 15 14:33 |
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| oiaohm | Times before livecd's were around Diablo-D3. These days its simpler. Also before redhat wisely included chroot in the installer disk so you did not need a livecd to recover. | Jul 15 14:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | ahh, so they caught up to debian finally? | Jul 15 14:38 |
| oiaohm | That was about in 1997 when they added that. | Jul 15 14:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | so? =P | Jul 15 14:39 |
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| oiaohm | Sad bit you still get installer disks from other distributions that don't include chroot on the disk for recovery of damage installs. | Jul 15 14:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | ubuntu may have done it right | Jul 15 14:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | they give you a fully functioning livecd that can also install things | Jul 15 14:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | whatever isnt in the livecd you can apt-get install | Jul 15 14:42 |
| oiaohm | There is a downside. | Jul 15 14:42 |
| oiaohm | livecd is heavy. | Jul 15 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | for a rescue disk thats the best design | Jul 15 14:42 |
| oiaohm | No one has really done perfect. | Jul 15 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | I no longer need to care what they include on it, I can apt-get things that are missing | Jul 15 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | before I was screwed if I needed a tool that wasnt on the disc | Jul 15 14:42 |
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| oiaohm | The hard bit would be working out how to merge live and alternative install methods into a single disk sharing as much data as able. | Jul 15 14:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | the livecd can install without going to the desktop first I think | Jul 15 14:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im not sure | Jul 15 14:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont particularly like ubuntuy | Jul 15 14:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | I just like their livecd | Jul 15 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Jul 15 14:44 |
| oiaohm | There livecd you must enter the desktop before you can install. | Jul 15 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Really for low end machines it suxs when you have the wrong disk. | Jul 15 14:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | meh | Jul 15 14:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | I use debian for installations, so =P | Jul 15 14:45 |
| oiaohm | We have been closer to a ideal installer disk we are just not there yet. | Jul 15 14:45 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] David, I was previously shown examples where Microsoft was diluting/diffusing Linux-related pages, omitting them from search results | Jul 15 14:51 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Intel is not doing as well as it appears" http://ping.fm/6spdk Intel was convicted of crimes in several continents. | Jul 15 14:52 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] It sure looks like Microsoft is still AstroTurfing all negative articles about Bong[sic] search. http://ping.fm/Lr2WC #bing | Jul 15 14:56 | |
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| Intel doing well? There was a crazy NYT article yesterday about how Intel's not as bad as expected revenues and earnings were a sign of turn around. Instead of being down 20% revenues were only down 16%, wow! Earnings were $1 billion, down from $1.6 from a year ago, ouch, but were really a 3 or 4 hundred million dollar loss when a big EU fine was included. | Jul 15 14:58 | |
| _Hicham_ | twitter the crazy | Jul 15 14:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | twitter: intel isnt doing well though | Jul 15 14:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] New round table titled "Software patents as a business opportunity" on September 9th at CIP FORUM 2009: http://bit.ly/13BbTB | Jul 15 15:00 | |
| _Hicham_ | Diablo-D3 : are u _Mutex_ ? | Jul 15 15:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | no. | Jul 15 15:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | twitter: they need to pay off a large portion of their debt | Jul 15 15:01 |
| zilog | who do they owe money too ? | Jul 15 15:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | dunno | Jul 15 15:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | but about 6 times higher than I like to see as an investment. | Jul 15 15:02 |
| zilog | at least they turned a profit, thats better than the auto industry | Jul 15 15:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | the auto industry has had a broken business model for 30 years | Jul 15 15:04 |
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| zilog | yes it has | Jul 15 15:05 |
| $400 million dollar loss translated to seven cents a share, zilog. | Jul 15 15:05 | |
| zilog | for who ? twitter ? | Jul 15 15:05 |
| Intel | Jul 15 15:05 | |
| zilog | did they havea $400 mill loss ? | Jul 15 15:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | they had a fine | Jul 15 15:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | which is, essentially, a loss. | Jul 15 15:06 |
| Yes, thanks to a big EU fine. | Jul 15 15:06 | |
| Diablo-D3 | they have 5.58 billion shares | Jul 15 15:06 |
| zilog | yes, and paid it, im sure that hurt them alot, and even with that fine they still managed to turn a profit. | Jul 15 15:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | 7 cents a share roughly | Jul 15 15:06 |
| *** twitter ignores zilog. | Jul 15 15:07 | |
| It's too bad Asus gave up GNU/Linux. This could have been a nice device http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2350219,00.asp | Jul 15 15:07 | |
| Windows makes it suck and expensive. $500 and bad handwriting recognition. | Jul 15 15:08 | |
| Asus seems to have also given up web cams, which is a shame. The one the put in their 700 series EEE PC was excellent. | Jul 15 15:10 | |
| schestowitz | It boots with Linux | Jul 15 15:10 |
| schestowitz | IIRC | Jul 15 15:10 |
| schestowitz | http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-survey-confirms-bing-will-bomb-2009-7 Survey Confirms: Bing Will Bomb | Jul 15 15:10 |
| fewa | yep, MSFT $ behind closed doors | Jul 15 15:11 |
| schestowitz | "Besides running Windows, there's also the Asus ExpressGate, which is a Linux OS on a chip. This is bootable within seconds from powering on into a fully working platform, with nearly everything one might need, from a web browser through email and skype to even viewing images." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/review/1433308/asus-eee-pc-t91 | Jul 15 15:11 |
| schestowitz | fewa: been caught in fraud before (MSFT) | Jul 15 15:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: I have expressgate on my asus board | Jul 15 15:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not what you think | Jul 15 15:11 |
| fewa | to ASUS | Jul 15 15:11 |
| Skype? nice. | Jul 15 15:11 | |
| Too bad they wrecked the thing with Windows. | Jul 15 15:11 | |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: its not on the mobo, you have to do shit to get it | Jul 15 15:11 |
| schestowitz | http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/38350 | Jul 15 15:12 |
| schestowitz | "We'll give you a sneak peek of the third post in the series, a candid interview with an outspoken shareholder who likens Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates to fraudster Bernard Madoff." | Jul 15 15:12 |
| I wonder how much of the $500 price tag goes to that. | Jul 15 15:12 | |
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| -> During 2007, Apple spent $782 million on R&D, Oracle spent $85 million while Microsoft spent about $7.5 billion. In 2007, Apple annual revenue amounted to $24 billion and net income totaled $3.5 billion," says Montgomer | Jul 15 15:32 | |
| I remember once reading that M$ hides a lot of it's marketing costs in R&D. | Jul 15 15:32 | |
| This makes them look more like a tech company and less like a marketing cult. | Jul 15 15:33 | |
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| wallclimber | Good morning twitter. Don't a lot of MS marketing costs also get hidden behind "charity"? | Jul 15 15:33 |
| M$ uses it's "charity" as a form of marketing, yes. Strings are attached to their gifts. | Jul 15 15:34 | |
| an uncharitable description of their charity is "dumping" | Jul 15 15:34 | |
| they "give" where GNU/Linux and other competitors gain a foothold | Jul 15 15:35 | |
| _Hicham_ | twitter have been sentenced to five years of jail for taking bribes from Microsoft | Jul 15 15:37 |
| Sometimes they take back what they give, http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=1495717 | Jul 15 15:38 | |
| http://slashdot.org/submission/1006087/Au-Charity-Backlash-to-M-Bait-and-Switch | Jul 15 15:38 | |
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| wallclimber | I was just reading about the Moody/Steel debate being called off | Jul 15 15:43 |
| wallclimber | maybe Mr. Steel knew he was going to lose the debate | Jul 15 15:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/kotaku/full/~3/A-QodXkIAL4/no-i-was-wrong-this-is-the-best-service-ever | Jul 15 15:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow | Jul 15 15:49 |
| wallclimber | oops, i misread...Steel was the CIO of Newham | Jul 15 15:49 |
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| Omar87 | Hi there? | Jul 15 15:57 |
| Omar87 | Guys, can yu please do me a favor and vote up my comment here: http://www.fsdaily.com/EndUser/No_thanks_Google_weve_got_Ubuntu#comment-4944 | Jul 15 15:58 |
| Omar87 | (I'm "Ubuntu87") | Jul 15 15:58 |
| schestowitz | Hi, wall.. | Jul 15 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Oh, she's gone | Jul 15 16:02 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Hi | Jul 15 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: np | Jul 15 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: it's spin vs Google | Jul 15 16:02 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Did you read my comment? | Jul 15 16:03 |
| schestowitz | But the author is pro-Linux | Jul 15 16:03 |
| schestowitz | Sadly he's helping Microsoft here | Jul 15 16:03 |
| schestowitz | By turning people against GOogle and Linux | Jul 15 16:03 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: I did | Jul 15 16:03 |
| schestowitz | Google SoC fund some Mono | Jul 15 16:03 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: What do you think? | Jul 15 16:03 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Really? | Jul 15 16:03 |
| schestowitz | I'm getting Vista 7 SPAM. | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | In my box: | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | "Hi there, | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Jul 15 16:04 | |
| schestowitz | Jul 15 16:04 | |
| schestowitz | thanks for subscribing to Windows7Themes.net! | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | I hope you got your free themes, if not download them here. | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | As a subscriber you will receive exclusive themes from time to time. | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Jul 15 16:04 | |
| schestowitz | I will keep you updated with our latest news via Mail. | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Have a great time at Windows7Themes.net! | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Jul 15 16:04 | |
| schestowitz | Jul 15 16:04 | |
| schestowitz | Jul 15 16:04 | |
| schestowitz | I hope to see you around, | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Jul 15 16:04 | |
| schestowitz | sOliver (admin of Windows7Themes.net) | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | " | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | They might be spamming to create buzz, who knows.. | Jul 15 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Someone can complain | Jul 15 16:04 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: But still, I don't think Google will ever be stupid enough to include Mono junk in any of their products. | Jul 15 16:11 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] went to iron interview shirts. found two still ironed from my last job hunt, three years ago ... | Jul 15 16:22 | |
| schestowitz | Omar87: true | Jul 15 16:23 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: Google doesn't use .NET | Jul 15 16:23 |
| schestowitz | They use Python, PHP, maybe a little Java (doubtful to a great degree), Perl, gnu tools (CLI).. | Jul 15 16:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #NPG is battening down the hatches: all contact info removed from we, press email has *acceptance queue*! caught on the hop? #wikipedia | Jul 15 16:25 | |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Exactly. | Jul 15 16:25 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: So what about the Bing search engine from M$? | Jul 15 16:25 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Is it ever anywhere near competing with Google? | Jul 15 16:26 |
| Omar87 | even* | Jul 15 16:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] ghostly image of shark jumps telegraph website http://is.gd/1zQQy | Jul 15 16:31 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Leaked Microsoft Slides (2003): How to Win Against GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/OXX97 | Jul 15 16:51 | |
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| schestowitz | After many hours of work and consultation, wallclimber and I have managed to lay out another piece of this puzzle: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/15/ms-how-to-win-vs-linux/ | Jul 15 16:56 |
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| wallc | wow! that turned out great, Roy! Good job! | Jul 15 17:05 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks. It'll hopefully reach 5000 in the next few days | Jul 15 17:12 |
| schestowitz | I guess I could submit it to Digg. Haven't been there for ages | Jul 15 17:12 |
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| schestowitz | I keep commentary short because people are lazy | Jul 15 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Writing about the non-Linux parts would only dilute the message it conveys in BN's context | Jul 15 17:15 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: I'll start Redditing your future posts starting from today if you like. | Jul 15 17:15 |
| _hicham_ | schestowitz will be the next pop star of the century | Jul 15 17:15 |
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| _hicham_ | the bing search from microsoft will be a failure again | Jul 15 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: that would be great, thanks | Jul 15 17:16 |
| _hicham_ | a failure signed with MS | Jul 15 17:16 |
| schestowitz | _hicham_: is, not "will be" | Jul 15 17:16 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Sure, no prob. ;) | Jul 15 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Survey Confirms: Bing Will Bomb < http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-survey-confirms-bing-will-bomb-2009-7 > | Jul 15 17:17 |
| _hicham_ | I would rather recommend schestowitz search engine | Jul 15 17:17 |
| _hicham_ | free, unpatented, and extensible | Jul 15 17:17 |
| schestowitz | index: * | Jul 15 17:17 |
| schestowitz | exclude: microsoft.com | Jul 15 17:17 |
| schestowitz | trash: .docx, .xlsx | Jul 15 17:18 |
| schestowitz | IDG disclosure for a change | Jul 15 17:24 |
| schestowitz | "Analysts at IDC (which is also owned by PC World parent company IDG) have released a survey saying Windows 7 will push Vista out of the way almost immediately. " | Jul 15 17:24 |
| schestowitz | IDC works for Microsoft | Jul 15 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Not surprising | Jul 15 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Source: http://www.pcworld.com/article/168289/is_your_office_wary_of_windows_7.html | Jul 15 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | This is silly: http://www.liliputing.com/2009/07/microsoft-pushes-windows-embedded-for-smartbooks-arm-powered-devices.html Microsoft has no ARM software | Jul 15 17:30 |
| schestowitz | ARM is going to give Microsoft a lot of trouble | Jul 15 17:30 |
| MinceR | that's like saying vista sp3 will push vista sp2 out of the way almost immediately | Jul 15 17:31 |
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| wallc | with Microsoft, SAYING they have ARM capable software is just as good as actually having it. | Jul 15 17:32 |
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| schestowitz | Sirius says "Free software" http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/2615991235 | Jul 15 17:36 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: indeed | Jul 15 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Just anythng to make the illiusion of good reception | Jul 15 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu 9.04 is great | Jul 15 17:37 |
| MinceR | well, wince can run on ARM, but even they seem to have given up on it | Jul 15 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Almost zeroed 8.10 downloads overnight | Jul 15 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Buy, that 9.04 must be great | Jul 15 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Like a million times better than 8.10 | Jul 15 17:37 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: maybe it's not too dustry | Jul 15 17:38 |
| schestowitz | They can bring back the GIM... errr, I mean Wince from the sheft | Jul 15 17:38 |
| MinceR | (it's called wince because that's what you'll do when you reboot it the fourth time in a row) | Jul 15 17:38 |
| MinceR | (and also when you find out that it forgot to wake you this morning) | Jul 15 17:38 |
| schestowitz | You have wince, right? | Jul 15 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Your phone | Jul 15 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer loves you! "MMMMwaaa!" | Jul 15 17:40 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock @elijahmanor. not just a spammer, but a Christian Microsoft spammer. Fucksakes. | Jul 15 17:53 | |
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| schestowitz | Why Private Browsing Isn’t… http://ouseful.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/why-private-browsing-isnt/ | Jul 15 17:59 |
| MinceR | yes it does | Jul 15 18:01 |
| MinceR | and it tends to require a reboot before it's willing to connect to gprs | Jul 15 18:01 |
| MinceR | and about half the time it comes up without today screen applets | Jul 15 18:01 |
| MinceR | and the solution to that is rebooting | Jul 15 18:01 |
| schestowitz | UK 'backs Blair for EU president' < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8152099.stm >. So maybe France too will join an invasion of Iran or something | Jul 15 18:02 |
| schestowitz | And maybe G Bush will become president of America now. People of Venezuela would LOVE that ;-) | Jul 15 18:03 |
| schestowitz | Kent Police clamp down on tall photographers < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/15/tall_photographers/ > | Jul 15 18:03 |
| schestowitz | Gene scientist to create algae biofuel with Exxon Mobil http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jul/14/green-algae-exxon-mobil | Jul 15 18:09 |
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| schestowitz | An Open Letter to Underemployed Journalists http://www.econtentmag.com/Articles/ArticleReader.aspx?ArticleID=54975 | Jul 15 18:11 |
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| tessier_ | Internet Astroturfer Fined $300,000 | Jul 15 18:16 |
| tessier_ | I wonder if that sort of thing could somehow snare Microsoft... | Jul 15 18:16 |
| MinceR | they wouldn't even notice such a fine | Jul 15 18:17 |
| tessier_ | I know. But that isn't the point. | Jul 15 18:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Britain's loony rules for artist visas embarrass festival organizers http://ping.fm/nEZFe | Jul 15 18:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock I just mocknblocked a Christian spammer. So I get a follow from @eChristianNews. Who are spammers. | Jul 15 18:18 | |
| Omar87 | Oh my God. | Jul 15 18:19 |
| Omar87 | I just realized how much Reddit sucks. :) | Jul 15 18:19 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: I created a new Reddit and called it "BoycottNovell". | Jul 15 18:20 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: good, thanks | Jul 15 18:20 |
| schestowitz | reddit has a lot of Mono | Jul 15 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Novell employees there too | Jul 15 18:21 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Unfortunately, it was later deleted. The message stated it might have been deleted automatically by the stupid spam filter. | Jul 15 18:21 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes, plastic surgeries, no? | Jul 15 18:21 |
| MinceR | Omar87: how does reddit suck? | Jul 15 18:21 |
| schestowitz | live-android http://code.google.com/p/live-android/ | Jul 15 18:22 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: I tried to contact the feedback department. But, I later received this reply: "Sorry to say it, but our feedback department (me) is on vacation until | Jul 15 18:22 |
| Omar87 | July 25. Try using our help section: http://www.reddit.com/help/ and | Jul 15 18:22 |
| Omar87 | if that doesn't solve your problem, create a bug ticket for our dev | Jul 15 18:22 |
| Omar87 | team to analyze: http://code.reddit.com/newticket" | Jul 15 18:22 |
| schestowitz | It's allllllllllive! Sigum, it's aalllaaaaive | Jul 15 18:23 |
| schestowitz | *Sigmund | Jul 15 18:23 |
| schestowitz | live-android | Jul 15 18:23 |
| trmanco | http://ophion.org/index.php/2009/07/microsoft-admits-it-costs-less-to-run-linux/ | Jul 15 18:23 |
| schestowitz | The Googlisation of Linux | Jul 15 18:23 |
| schestowitz | I warned Linus about it | Jul 15 18:23 |
| Omar87 | There feedback employee is on vacation. :D | Jul 15 18:23 |
| Omar87 | Their* | Jul 15 18:23 |
| schestowitz | "feedback employee" | Jul 15 18:24 |
| schestowitz | Nice job title | Jul 15 18:24 |
| schestowitz | "rubbish employee" | Jul 15 18:24 |
| schestowitz | "spam employee" | Jul 15 18:24 |
| schestowitz | "toilet employee" | Jul 15 18:24 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Exactly. | Jul 15 18:24 |
| schestowitz | I'm sure the feedback employee does more than one thing :-) | Jul 15 18:24 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Their entire Feedback department is run by a single pingle guy... | Jul 15 18:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @prosario2000: RT @mariuz #Microsoft admits: it costs less to run: GNU/!Linux http://2tu.us/kf7 | Jul 15 18:25 | |
| Omar87 | MinceR: What more bloat do you want than that? :) | Jul 15 18:25 |
| schestowitz | Xinjiang Info-War http://rconversation.blogs.com/rconversation/2009/07/xinjiang-infowar.html | Jul 15 18:26 |
| *MinceR shrugs | Jul 15 18:26 | |
| MinceR | schestowitz: does Linus care? he didn't mind tivoization either | Jul 15 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Jul 15 18:26 |
| Omar87 | MinceR: The more ludicrous thing is that somehow they couldn't even find someone to take his place until he gets back, lol. :) | Jul 15 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Origin of Species: How a T. Rex Femur Sparked a Scientific Smackdown http://www.wired.com/medtech/genetics/magazine/17-07/ff_originofspecies | Jul 15 18:30 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: I personally believe that no company on earth and severely strangely Linux. | Jul 15 18:30 |
| schestowitz | I don't understand | Jul 15 18:31 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Correction: can severely *strangle* Linux. | Jul 15 18:31 |
| amarsh04 | schestowitz... the Xinjiang situation was interesting... there was an .au reporter there when the main demonstrations were happening, and an .au film-maker is showing a documentary about a famous exile from that province at a film festival next month and the director of the film festival was told by a local .cn consular official not to show that documentary | Jul 15 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: they can't | Jul 15 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Peiople always want freedom | Jul 15 18:31 |
| schestowitz | They gravitate towards tools | Jul 15 18:31 |
| schestowitz | BSD or Linux | Jul 15 18:31 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Not all of them, unfortunately. | Jul 15 18:32 |
| schestowitz | And there are always scummy people who will help strangle those who want freedom | Jul 15 18:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The great patent scam: http://ping.fm/Yeto5 | Jul 15 18:32 | |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Naive idiots don't give a damn about it. | Jul 15 18:32 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: They don't even know what it really means. | Jul 15 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Of course not | Jul 15 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Power is seen as a privilege | Jul 15 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Not a right | Jul 15 18:33 |
| schestowitz | See patent scam about | Jul 15 18:33 |
| schestowitz | *above | Jul 15 18:33 |
| schestowitz | It's a new tool for suppression | Jul 15 18:33 |
| schestowitz | I pass a law that says you need to buy my oxygen | Jul 15 18:33 |
| schestowitz | There. | Jul 15 18:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "suspect your neighbours" Climate of Fear propaganda posters campaign cost £1.7 million http://ping.fm/jZKDW | Jul 15 18:36 | |
| schestowitz | ^^ They separate people. Keeping them feeble and isolated, thus less able to challenge elites. | Jul 15 18:36 |
| trmanco | http://code.google.com/p/unladen-swallow/ | Jul 15 18:36 |
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| jose_X | schestowitz, did you see this: http://gizmodo.com/5314595/google-loses-guy-who-caused-steve-ballmer-to-throw-a-chair | Jul 15 18:38 |
| jose_X | i don't know if it is new or not | Jul 15 18:38 |
| jose_X | the posting is from yesterday | Jul 15 18:38 |
| jose_X | title is : | Jul 15 18:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | I posted that in here earlier I think | Jul 15 18:38 |
| jose_X | ok | Jul 15 18:38 |
| jose_X | vmware | Jul 15 18:39 |
| jose_X | that's what caught my attention | Jul 15 18:39 |
| trmanco | http://code.google.com/p/live-android/ | Jul 15 18:39 |
| Omar87 | I wish the guy who hurled eggs at Ballmer back in Hungary brought grenades instead.. -_- | Jul 15 18:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | trmanco: I know I posted that in here earlier | Jul 15 18:39 |
| trmanco | oh ok | Jul 15 18:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | I was almost tempted to download it | Jul 15 18:40 |
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| zilog | Omar87 that is alot of hate | Jul 15 18:41 |
| Omar87 | zilog: Oh yes, man. And there's still more. | Jul 15 18:41 |
| Omar87 | zilog: You've no idea what M$ is doing in my country. | Jul 15 18:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | what country is that? | Jul 15 18:42 |
| zilog | what country ? | Jul 15 18:42 |
| Omar87 | Jordan | Jul 15 18:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | microsoft even knows about your country? | Jul 15 18:42 |
| Omar87 | zilog: People here live like animals. M$ is everything. | Jul 15 18:42 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3: Oh, okay.. let me think.... | Jul 15 18:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | Omar87: you're south of the ass end of the world, wtf could microsoft be doing there? | Jul 15 18:43 |
| zilog | So that is an excuse to blow someone up ? | Jul 15 18:43 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3: They have a branch in Amman.. so..... I guess they do know yes. | Jul 15 18:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow, I wonder why | Jul 15 18:43 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3: M$ is doing it not only to my country, but to so many other countries too. | Jul 15 18:44 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3: You wonder why what? | Jul 15 18:44 |
| zilog | but what has MS done to Jordan that makes you hate balmer enough to want him blown up ? | Jul 15 18:44 |
| zilog | Seems a bit extreem | Jul 15 18:44 |
| zilog | ist | Jul 15 18:44 |
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| Omar87 | zilog: It just brainwashed the world. You can also hear about nothing but the bloat of Windows, .NET, SQLServer.. etc.. here. | Jul 15 18:46 |
| schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10286732-56.html?tag=mncol;txt#addcomm | Jul 15 18:46 |
| schestowitz | Gates talks about "Farting " cows | Jul 15 18:46 |
| schestowitz | And the Fried Shill gets exec access in exchange for all the PR | Jul 15 18:46 |
| zilog | methane is a big problem | Jul 15 18:46 |
| Omar87 | zilog: Of course PHP is still widely used too. But M$ still has the upper hand here. | Jul 15 18:46 |
| schestowitz | http://fixoutlook.org/ | Jul 15 18:47 |
| zilog | they have the upper hand in alot of places, as does the oil companies, does not make it right to want someone dead. IMHO | Jul 15 18:47 |
| schestowitz | Hey, jose_X | Jul 15 18:47 |
| Omar87 | zilog: Correction ---> "You can *almost* hear about nothing but the bloat of Windows, .NET, SQLServer.. etc.. here." | Jul 15 18:48 |
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| Omar87 | zilog: However, why do you some poeple keep taking things literally.. ? | Jul 15 18:49 |
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| schestowitz | jose_X: I like this one better: http://schestowitz.com/Amusement/images/ballmer-office.png | Jul 15 18:49 |
| zilog | I think wanting someone you dont like dead, or blown up is not something more people would consider "right". or moral, ethical, legal and so on. is that what you are proposing ? | Jul 15 18:49 |
| Omar87 | zilog: If I really wanted him dead, I would have done that myself. I just want his hands off the brains of those naive people he and Bill Gates brainwashed. | Jul 15 18:50 |
| Omar87 | zilog: Don't take my words literally. | Jul 15 18:50 |
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| Omar87 | zilog: There's a little pinch of exaggeration in there, if you haven't already noticed. | Jul 15 18:51 |
| zilog | then mabey you should not engage in death and hate speak, mabey people will get the wrong idea about anit-MS people if you go around saying you wish that someone would throw a grenada at anyone. | Jul 15 18:51 |
| zilog | Mabye but in this day and age, and especially where you are from that is a touchy thing to do, | Jul 15 18:52 |
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| *desudesudesu is now known as desu | Jul 15 18:52 | |
| schestowitz | Hehe | Jul 15 18:52 |
| schestowitz | " desudesudesu... (Nick collision from services.)" | Jul 15 18:53 |
| jose_X | Omar87, someone was making a big deal that boycottnovell condones(?) violence because some fools or some plants or simply some angry people at some point in time posted some threats. | Jul 15 18:53 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: comments are not a site | Jul 15 18:53 |
| jose_X | schestowitz, absolutely | Jul 15 18:53 |
| schestowitz | No more than some guy in the county who murders someone is not a respresentative | Jul 15 18:53 |
| zilog | thats also a good point, as it can be pointed too as the "FOSS mentality". | Jul 15 18:53 |
| schestowitz | I guess the US condones murder because of Unabomber | Jul 15 18:53 |
| Omar87 | jose_X: I fail to see which part of my messages would be considered a threat. | Jul 15 18:54 |
| schestowitz | It's a wish | Jul 15 18:54 |
| schestowitz | Not a threat | Jul 15 18:54 |
| schestowitz | When you say "I wish that person..." | Jul 15 18:54 |
| zilog | semantics | Jul 15 18:54 |
| jose_X | i'm just mentioning that the grenade part might have rubbed someone wrong | Jul 15 18:54 |
| schestowitz | Very differenty | Jul 15 18:54 |
| schestowitz | *rent | Jul 15 18:54 |
| Omar87 | zilog: Wow.. What a disgusting job CNN, BBC, CBS and FOX news are doing to you guys. They made us look like those freaky species found in Hollywood Horror movies.. | Jul 15 18:55 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: this is silly | Jul 15 18:55 |
| schestowitz | I can't control what people say | Jul 15 18:55 |
| jose_X | i know | Jul 15 18:55 |
| schestowitz | Or leave o | Jul 15 18:55 |
| schestowitz | Or leave as comments | Jul 15 18:55 |
| schestowitz | Let alone delete comment | Jul 15 18:55 |
| jose_X | i just wanted Omar87 to have a little bit of context | Jul 15 18:55 |
| Omar87 | zilog: The more disgusting thing is that there are actually people out there who do believe these loads of B.S. | Jul 15 18:55 |
| zilog | that would not be from people saying they wanted to blow people up, then going out and blowing people up by any chance ~~ | Jul 15 18:55 |
| schestowitz | And then be called "fascistic censor" | Jul 15 18:55 |
| Omar87 | jose_X: You failed to do that. Because I'm not posting any threats. | Jul 15 18:56 |
| schestowitz | zilog: we don't need trolls here | Jul 15 18:56 |
| schestowitz | And you've been trolling all along AFAIK | Jul 15 18:56 |
| jose_X | i wasn't reprimanding you Omar87 | Jul 15 18:56 |
| schestowitz | Now just trying to inflate some remark taking it out of context | Jul 15 18:56 |
| schestowitz | that's why we need to clean up and ban trolls more | Jul 15 18:57 |
| jose_X | i wanted you to see perhaps why someone took you seriously | Jul 15 18:57 |
| jose_X | it's like if i make a joke and no one laughs | Jul 15 18:57 |
| jose_X | but then someone points out that the group had just been laid off | Jul 15 18:57 |
| jose_X | then i say.. oh, ok, i see why you are not taking me lightly | Jul 15 18:57 |
| Omar87 | jose_X: I never said you were. | Jul 15 18:58 |
| jose_X | well, it's not that bad here, | Jul 15 18:58 |
| jose_X | fine, np | Jul 15 18:58 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Sorry for this big fuss. | Jul 15 19:00 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Sorry for making this big fuss. | Jul 15 19:01 |
| jose_X | that's what happens you can don't stop to read other people's minds first | Jul 15 19:01 |
| jose_X | ;-) | Jul 15 19:01 |
| Omar87 | jose_X: What? | Jul 15 19:01 |
| jose_X | that was an attempt at a joke | Jul 15 19:01 |
| Omar87 | jose_X: ok | Jul 15 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: don't worry about it | Jul 15 19:03 |
| schestowitz | zilog: you have been banned like 10 times already | Jul 15 19:03 |
| schestowitz | Under different name | Jul 15 19:03 |
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| schestowitz | I can see what ISP you're on and your style | Jul 15 19:03 |
| schestowitz | You're Mutex | Jul 15 19:04 |
| schestowitz | And for nymshifting alone and ban-evading I'd have to do this: | Jul 15 19:04 |
| schestowitz | [no more agent provocateur] | Jul 15 19:04 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@121.218.220.* | Jul 15 19:04 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked zilog from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Jul 15 19:04 | |
| schestowitz | Omar87: he is here to make the fuss | Jul 15 19:04 |
| schestowitz | Clinging onto anything he can | Jul 15 19:04 |
| schestowitz | But the remarks are still not appropriate, just not worth relishing on | Jul 15 19:05 |
| jose_X | btw, Omar87, in case you didn't understand what was (not) funny about my last comment.. | Jul 15 19:05 |
| jose_X | since you can't read people's minds (no one can.. that I know of).. | Jul 15 19:05 |
| jose_X | you couldn't have prevented the little fuss | Jul 15 19:05 |
| jose_X | which means it's not really something that would be "your fault" | Jul 15 19:05 |
| jose_X | so don't worry | Jul 15 19:05 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: I heard people making similar remarks | Jul 15 19:06 |
| schestowitz | Regarding egg-tossing | Jul 15 19:06 |
| schestowitz | And it's treated like a bit of a joke | Jul 15 19:06 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't imply desire to murder | Jul 15 19:06 |
| schestowitz | Except for in the eyes of CHARACTER assassins | Jul 15 19:06 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Exacly. | Jul 15 19:07 |
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| finalzone | hello, a few comments. | Jul 15 19:07 |
| finalzone | I read about Moonlight issue and noticed 70 comments | Jul 15 19:08 |
| schestowitz | Whao. What's that? http://www.toluu.com/feeds/615271414 | Jul 15 19:09 |
| schestowitz | Hey, finalzone | Jul 15 19:09 |
| Omar87 | jose_X: Plus, it's not like a terrorist who's planning to assassinate a famous celebrity would even log on to the internet a night or two before to blurt around stating he'd like to kill someone or blow up another, right? (AFAIK) | Jul 15 19:09 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: just forget about this | Jul 15 19:09 |
| schestowitz | it was never supposed to become a debate | Jul 15 19:09 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: That's true. | Jul 15 19:10 |
| schestowitz | If someone says "I wish X just dropped dead"... | Jul 15 19:10 |
| schestowitz | That's common | Jul 15 19:10 |
| schestowitz | Not for me | Jul 15 19:10 |
| schestowitz | For many people | Jul 15 19:10 |
| schestowitz | They shouldn't be called the T word | Jul 15 19:10 |
| schestowitz | And notice how they tried to associated you with a country | Jul 15 19:10 |
| schestowitz | To suit the stereotyper | Jul 15 19:10 |
| schestowitz | Anyway... | Jul 15 19:10 |
| finalzone | hiyam schestowitz | Jul 15 19:10 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: That's true, | Jul 15 19:10 |
| schestowitz | finalzone: what's up? | Jul 15 19:10 |
| jose_X | speaking of ballmer.. he has his hands full with microsoft | Jul 15 19:11 |
| jose_X | the more of his plans that fail the better | Jul 15 19:11 |
| jose_X | but it means ballmer is losing much sleep | Jul 15 19:11 |
| jose_X | and he's a billionaire | Jul 15 19:11 |
| *schestowitz thinks the Mutex troll hurries to linsxxxxxx to post complaints about his kickban | Jul 15 19:11 | |
| schestowitz | He'll come back with a new name | Jul 15 19:11 |
| schestowitz | He always does | Jul 15 19:11 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: he is | Jul 15 19:12 |
| finalzone | this post: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/15/mono-moonlight-novell-intersection/ brought me in this channel | Jul 15 19:12 |
| schestowitz | Did you see the video in BN? | Jul 15 19:12 |
| schestowitz | The one I posted this morning? | Jul 15 19:12 |
| schestowitz | he has gone totally mental on stage | Jul 15 19:12 |
| schestowitz | Over the depression | Jul 15 19:12 |
| jose_X | i would not mind if he stopped being a billionaire thought | Jul 15 19:12 |
| schestowitz | next week will be funny | Jul 15 19:12 |
| schestowitz | No more tongue lashing with the CFO in the shareholders meeting | Jul 15 19:12 |
| schestowitz | IMHO some people in MSFT might get locked up later | Jul 15 19:13 |
| Omar87 | It's too bad that a billionaire can't enjoy his fortune because his company is falling apart day after day. | Jul 15 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Some were already supposed to | Jul 15 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Back when they got caught with accounting fraud | Jul 15 19:13 |
| schestowitz | The SEC pardoned them | Jul 15 19:13 |
| finalzone | schestowitz: moonlight part seems to expose lefly poster true colour | Jul 15 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Nobody was sent to the cell | Jul 15 19:13 |
| jose_X | http://www.toluu.com/feeds/615271414/subscribers .. jonathan wong | Jul 15 19:13 |
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| schestowitz | finalzone: yes | Jul 15 19:14 |
| schestowitz | He is unstable (in character IMHO) | Jul 15 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Very resentful, so I don't speak to it | Jul 15 19:14 |
| jose_X | Omar87, until the "fat lady sings" i don't believe that | Jul 15 19:14 |
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| finalzone | schestowitz: | Jul 15 19:14 |
| jose_X | but he can't be excited about how things are looking overall | Jul 15 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Hahaha. | Jul 15 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft employees subscribe to BN | Jul 15 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Priceless | Jul 15 19:15 |
| wallclimber | :) | Jul 15 19:15 |
| finalzone | schestowitz: I must stay you did a very good work helping users exposing dirty trick from Novell and Microsoft | Jul 15 19:15 |
| finalzone | my concern is about the future of gnome which is my primairly desktop | Jul 15 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Alex Hudson has not quite left us yet: http://www.alexhudson.com/blog/2009/07/15/boycotts-as-consumer-judo/ | Jul 15 19:19 |
| Omar87 | jose_X: You don't believe what? | Jul 15 19:19 |
| schestowitz | I have some Microsoft employees 'reading' me on Twitter, but this is funny and worth a quick humourous post | Jul 15 19:19 |
| jose_X | that " his company is falling apart day after day." | Jul 15 19:20 |
| jose_X | i mean it might be, but i remain cautious | Jul 15 19:20 |
| jose_X | don't let down guard | Jul 15 19:20 |
| jose_X | no point in giving them lifesavers if that was the case | Jul 15 19:20 |
| jose_X | no bones for those dogs | Jul 15 19:20 |
| finalzone | wounded beast is very dangeru=ous | Jul 15 19:22 |
| finalzone | here in Vancouver, I saw a lot of ads from Microsoft | Jul 15 19:23 |
| finalzone | hardly surprising because Redmond is only at 2-3 hours distance | Jul 15 19:24 |
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| schestowitz | finalzone: they rely on it | Jul 15 19:32 |
| schestowitz | They buy themselves a strong brand | Jul 15 19:32 |
| schestowitz | And hind the corruption/crime side | Jul 15 19:32 |
| schestowitz | They spend by far the most on brainwash | Jul 15 19:32 |
| schestowitz | If Windows and Office don't bring enough cash (margins), marketing collapse too | Jul 15 19:32 |
| schestowitz | From there it goes AWOL | Jul 15 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | Imagine trying to hype up Vista 7 without that half a billion dollars in brainwash (aka PR) | Jul 15 19:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock bloody hell, how many #christian spammers will I net today. latest is @askjonpaul - who is a spammer. WWJS? | Jul 15 19:33 | |
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| jose_X | i'm leaving... | Jul 15 19:35 |
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| tacone | http://crankyoldnutcase.blogspot.com/2009/07/mono-firefight.html | Jul 15 19:38 |
| cj | schestowitz: moo? | Jul 15 19:38 |
| cj | schestowitz: have you joined http://progfree.org/ ? | Jul 15 19:41 |
| cj | schestowitz: I'm going to help them set up a planet and mailman. got free cycles, servers or bandwidth to help? | Jul 15 19:41 |
| schestowitz | tacone: gives me an error | Jul 15 19:41 |
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| tacone | try again | Jul 15 19:42 |
| tacone | nice sum up | Jul 15 19:42 |
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| I think the trolls are upset about mono and moonblight rejection. | Jul 15 20:10 | |
| M$ people do perception management about all of it, but the recent uptick comes after a lot of losses on their part. | Jul 15 20:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @michaelnolan Need your help. Know someone who is transgendered? Please read & RT #trans #glbt http://tr.im/srMt | Jul 15 20:14 | |
| wallclimber | twitter, i have a question - it will take me a few minutes to formulate it though | Jul 15 20:15 |
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| wallclimber | after reading so many of the Comes v. MS exhibits, it seems that MS is very goal oriented | Jul 15 20:16 |
| wallclimber | the seemingly desperate and very hostile reactions from the mono camp | Jul 15 20:17 |
| wallclimber | to the point beyond common sense | Jul 15 20:17 |
| wallclimber | makes me wonder what's behind that desperation | Jul 15 20:17 |
| wallclimber | is it possible that they were given a specific set of goals to accomplish - within a specific time frame? | Jul 15 20:18 |
| wallclimber | i don't know what the consequenses might be, if they fail to meet those (supposed) goals, but loss of support and money could be possible | Jul 15 20:19 |
| wallclimber | lol...sorry, that question was too long, i know | Jul 15 20:19 |
| wallclimber | :) | Jul 15 20:19 |
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| _Goblin | I think, whatever MONO is or isnt, its a testiment to the poor image of Microsoft. Here we have a dev platform that allegedly only has the remotest connection to MS and it cant even be given away for free. That to me should be more of a worry for Microsoft. | Jul 15 20:30 |
| schestowitz | Hey, wallclimber | Jul 15 20:32 |
| *schestowitz atches up | Jul 15 20:32 | |
| schestowitz | The trolls are derailing things today | Jul 15 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Had it not been for the trolls I'd do more posts, news, etc. Also IRC... | Jul 15 20:32 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: .NET "Goal"? | Jul 15 20:33 |
| schestowitz | That'd be Novell | Jul 15 20:33 |
| schestowitz | They have conditions in their Mcirosoft deal | Jul 15 20:33 |
| schestowitz | But many Mono advocates are not Novell employees | Jul 15 20:33 |
| schestowitz | So either honest people, useful idiots, or shills | Jul 15 20:33 |
| wallclimber | Hi Roy. I guess I've been looking at too many bullet pointed powerpoints lately. But it does seem | Jul 15 20:36 |
| wallclimber | that's the way MS thinks, on the whole. Everything is bulleted into goals to accomplish (one way or another | Jul 15 20:36 |
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| wallclimber | Regarding mono and all the hostility - in any other circumstance, where someone's software is not widely accepted, they would likely just shrug it off and try again later (?) | Jul 15 20:40 |
| ThistleWeb | I've thought of an alternate way to tackle the mono-pushers | Jul 15 20:41 |
| ThistleWeb | encourage them to build their own DE or WM with all their own mono "goodness" and let the Linux peeps they claim love it......use it | Jul 15 20:41 |
| wallclimber | but with mono, the degree of insistance behind the push seems beyond normal...so I'm wondering why it all seems so desperate, if not because of consequences/rewards promised by Microsoft | Jul 15 20:41 |
| ThistleWeb | of course that does not achieve the infection plans | Jul 15 20:42 |
| ThistleWeb | release a distro like opensuse with the mono DE | Jul 15 20:42 |
| ThistleWeb | and watch how many users they lose | Jul 15 20:42 |
| wallclimber | but they really want Ubuntu involved | Jul 15 20:42 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: these presentations are valuable | Jul 15 20:42 |
| schestowitz | Not just for Linux | Jul 15 20:42 |
| schestowitz | They get sorted in the Wiki | Jul 15 20:43 |
| ThistleWeb | if it's really as popular as they claim, a mono DE / distro would be great for them | Jul 15 20:43 |
| schestowitz | I did organise it at the beginning of the month with some tags | Jul 15 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Ideally: | Jul 15 20:43 |
| wallclimber | Roy, I can finish the others I started, if you want | Jul 15 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Extract topics covered in each, make categories and tags | Jul 15 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Then... | Jul 15 20:43 |
| schestowitz | People can go by topic and cherry-pick exhibit | Jul 15 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Then take these to court (PDFs) | Jul 15 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Googling for them helps too (thus the need for text) | Jul 15 20:44 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: it's not so simple | Jul 15 20:44 |
| schestowitz | They know they can exploit the stupid | Jul 15 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Like that saying goes... | Jul 15 20:44 |
| ThistleWeb | I know that making it simple for users is not part of their goals | Jul 15 20:44 |
| schestowitz | 3 types use computers... those who don't know computers... those who don't care... and those who exploit the first two groups | Jul 15 20:44 |
| schestowitz | The mono fans rely on the first and second group | Jul 15 20:45 |
| schestowitz | They can hijack and exploit | Jul 15 20:45 |
| schestowitz | If only they can manage to sneak around and behind the back of RMS, SFLC, Red Hat, etc., | Jul 15 20:45 |
| schestowitz | But more people are made aware of the Mono mess | Jul 15 20:45 |
| schestowitz | This is bad for Novell and Mono | Jul 15 20:45 |
| schestowitz | They can't just quietly push the Banshee Trojan into Linux | Jul 15 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu rejects it for 9.10 | Jul 15 20:46 |
| ThistleWeb | keeping it separate don't fit with the infection plan either, it's like volunteering to live in the isolation ward when you want to be out among the rest of the patients | Jul 15 20:46 |
| schestowitz | And Ubuntu lost many users and PR due to even daring to put it there. | Jul 15 20:46 |
| schestowitz | So if the system works, those who listen to Microsoft/Mono and not to users will perish | Jul 15 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Ones like Fecdora that reject Mono will gain | Jul 15 20:46 |
| wallclimber | speaking of mutex (I know, we really weren't) he is present in many ubuntu forum threads | Jul 15 20:46 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: exhibits? | Jul 15 20:47 |
| schestowitz | wa | Jul 15 20:47 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: mutex is from a site called linsux | Jul 15 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Which is telling, ain't it? | Jul 15 20:47 |
| wallclimber | Yes, ppt images from exhibits, i started several, but was worried you wouldn't want them... | Jul 15 20:47 |
| wallclimber | so i just sent what was finished | Jul 15 20:48 |
| wallclimber | i can finish them if you want | Jul 15 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Have you started? | Jul 15 20:50 |
| schestowitz | If not, better not to bother | Jul 15 20:50 |
| schestowitz | There are higher priorities for us... | Jul 15 20:50 |
| schestowitz | I mean, I'm sure it's time consuming making these slides | Jul 15 20:50 |
| schestowitz | And they are in the PDFs anyway | Jul 15 20:50 |
| ThistleWeb | thinking about it though, ubuntu losing users because of mono may be a good thing, it's eductating peeps over the issue in a strong enough way that they're activle voting against it. Do they go to the official Windows OS of the source of mono? Not likely. They go to another Linux and send ubuntu the message in the process that they dont want mono | Jul 15 20:50 |
| wallclimber | I don't remember which ones exactly (they're on another computer), but I think I have about 4 more started | Jul 15 20:51 |
| schestowitz | When I was doing tons of exhibits I usually just put text saying "[See PDF for figure]" | Jul 15 20:51 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: ah, send them over if it's almost done then :-) | Jul 15 20:51 |
| ThistleWeb | the point is they're still on linux, but have a stronger affinity to the ethos of FOSS and are willing to say no | Jul 15 20:51 |
| wallclimber | ThisleWeb, I agree. Microsoft people love to paint general users as "stupid", but I think they underestimate them (which means me too) | Jul 15 20:52 |
| wallclimber | I am torn between wanting to stay supportive of Ubuntu, because I like it (mostly) and if we all run away then the mono folks have won | Jul 15 20:53 |
| ThistleWeb | I reckon many more will use forums etc to learn to rip mono from ubuntu and still use it, rather than switch to a distro without it | Jul 15 20:53 |
| wallclimber | but I'm always looking for alternatives, just in case i want to move on | Jul 15 20:54 |
| ThistleWeb | ubuntu is the poster child, it's the linux juggernaught which is helping educate peeps to an alternate to Windows | Jul 15 20:54 |
| ThistleWeb | when new users look for help, they're gonna find an ubuntu answer much easier than any other distro | Jul 15 20:55 |
| wallclimber | at least for now, de-monoizing ubuntu is easy...i'm no tech savvy person (think grandma here) so if i can do it anyone can | Jul 15 20:55 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: what Ubuntu made passed to other distros | Jul 15 20:55 |
| wallclimber | i've long since stopped looking to the Ubu-forums for help though | Jul 15 20:55 |
| schestowitz | Even Synaptec | Jul 15 20:55 |
| ThistleWeb | several distros like mint and crunchbang can use the same tutorials, repos etc | Jul 15 20:55 |
| schestowitz | I was happy to see it in PCLinuxOS | Jul 15 20:55 |
| wallclimber | i love crunchbang | Jul 15 20:55 |
| schestowitz | Not the Mandriva PM | Jul 15 20:56 |
| ThistleWeb | I'm using crunchbang now | Jul 15 20:56 |
| ThistleWeb | 9.04 is sweet | Jul 15 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu knows it has no added value | Jul 15 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu = GNOME+brown colours | Jul 15 20:56 |
| wallclimber | i have crunchbang on an old armada laptop | Jul 15 20:56 |
| schestowitz | You could choose Mint | Jul 15 20:56 |
| MinceR | gnome+green colors? :> | Jul 15 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Which would make the Ubuntu trademark invisible | Jul 15 20:56 |
| wallclimber | the ubuntu brown doesn't bother me at all, it sooo easy to change | Jul 15 20:56 |
| MinceR | or you could choose debian | Jul 15 20:56 |
| ThistleWeb | mint and crunchbang do seem to be "ubuntu done right" | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: exactly | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | But... | Jul 15 20:57 |
| _Goblin | I think for the majority of "new users" Ubuntu userfriendliness is a myth.... | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | My point is that there is no Ubuntu lockin | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | People don't lose anything by moving | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | This is important | Jul 15 20:57 |
| _Goblin | you can find the same friendlyness in many distros | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Mono can be lockin | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Mono apps and data | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | BUT!!1 | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | I'm grateful for gnote | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | fspot doesn't lock in data | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Even metadata is exportable | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | But Tomboy.. | Jul 15 20:57 |
| ThistleWeb | there are certainly quite a few distros that are easy to use for new peeps now | Jul 15 20:57 |
| schestowitz | It has its own data formats | Jul 15 20:57 |
| ThistleWeb | ubuntu is only one of many | Jul 15 20:58 |
| schestowitz | And gnote rescues this data | Jul 15 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Banhee just plays music | Jul 15 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Hardly hold valuable data | Jul 15 20:58 |
| schestowitz | And it's nowhere in sight | Jul 15 20:58 |
| ThistleWeb | albeit the one that gets all the media attention | Jul 15 20:58 |
| _Goblin | To be fair, the danger is the average Linux user either doesnt care or doesnt understand what MONO is. | Jul 15 20:58 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: see the Mandriva family | Jul 15 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Caixa Magica, PCLOS, Pardus, Mandriva | Jul 15 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Very, VERY good | Jul 15 20:58 |
| wallclimber | i agree, ubuntu can be frustrating, but the degree of frustration is a lot less than for Windows (any version) | Jul 15 20:58 |
| ThistleWeb | never heard of the first one | Jul 15 20:58 |
| _Goblin | roy, I havent yet got around to trying PCLOS. | Jul 15 20:59 |
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| schestowitz | _Goblin: so steer them t/w mono-free dists | Jul 15 20:59 |
| ThistleWeb | pclos is excellent | Jul 15 20:59 |
| ThistleWeb | or it was in the 2007 one that I used for a while | Jul 15 20:59 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: "the average Linux user" takes advice | Jul 15 20:59 |
| _Goblin | true | Jul 15 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Those who know about Mono can make own judgment | Jul 15 20:59 |
| wallclimber | my problem is that, of all the distros i try, ubuntu seems to work with the hardware the most often | Jul 15 20:59 |
| ThistleWeb | Pardus does look interesting but I don't trust any official govt sanctioned or funded distro | Jul 15 21:00 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: Ubuntu is concerned abotu BN | Jul 15 21:00 |
| schestowitz | But Groklaw gives Ubuntu a hard time too | Jul 15 21:00 |
| _Goblin | thats the advantage of Ubuntu, but then having said that Ive never had a problem with any of the distros I use. | Jul 15 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Jono the community manager of Canonical (Ubuntu rather) comes here to IRC | Jul 15 21:00 |
| ThistleWeb | wallclimber: all ubuntu based distros will do the same then, but mint will give you a better all round experience | Jul 15 21:00 |
| wallclimber | who at ubuntu is concerned about BN? | Jul 15 21:00 |
| _Goblin | So apparently does Moshe the COLA troll. | Jul 15 21:00 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: it's Mandriva on Steroids | Jul 15 21:00 |
| schestowitz | All the 'illegal' things | Jul 15 21:01 |
| _Goblin | KDE? | Jul 15 21:01 |
| schestowitz | Codecs, Flash on the Live CD, etc,. | Jul 15 21:01 |
| schestowitz | Yes, KDE 3.5 | Jul 15 21:01 |
| schestowitz | In PCLOS 2009 even | Jul 15 21:01 |
| _Goblin | Not a fan.... :( | Jul 15 21:01 |
| schestowitz | They recently put 4.2 in the repos | Jul 15 21:01 |
| _Goblin | Wolvix was the first slackware distro that is out of the box codecs etc that Ive used. | Jul 15 21:02 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: Maybe MarkS too, but it goes way back | Jul 15 21:02 |
| ThistleWeb | wolvix is impressive | Jul 15 21:02 |
| _Goblin | Im a Wolvix champion now. I was so impressed I replaced my Gentoo main rig with it. | Jul 15 21:02 |
| _Goblin | cracking little team behind it...real people... | Jul 15 21:03 |
| ThistleWeb | the prob with distros like wolvix, is that you wonder what ubuntu are doing to make xubuntu so slow | Jul 15 21:03 |
| _Goblin | yeah...I think its the Vista effect... | Jul 15 21:03 |
| ThistleWeb | wolvix is a nice snappy xfce, as it should be | Jul 15 21:03 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: will you stroll to SCO hearings? | Jul 15 21:03 |
| _Goblin | pandering to the one click fix demands of new users. | Jul 15 21:03 |
| schestowitz | July 2xth? | Jul 15 21:03 |
| schestowitz | MSFT's results are coming soon | Jul 15 21:04 |
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| schestowitz | w00t! | Jul 15 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Another good day it'll be | Jul 15 21:04 |
| _Goblin | I truely believe the binary slug of Windows is the sole fault of the average Windows user. | Jul 15 21:04 |
| wallclimber | nope, i sure wish i could, las vegas isn't that far away | Jul 15 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Next time they'll try to steal the thunder of UGLY ugly results by announcing Vista7 at the same time | Jul 15 21:04 |
| schestowitz | End of Oct | Jul 15 21:04 |
| schestowitz | And also eclipse Ubuntu 9.10's announcement | Jul 15 21:04 |
| ThistleWeb | _Goblin: maybe, I wonder if it's more just including every service and driver under the sun and enabling them so it ensures that the users hardware works | Jul 15 21:04 |
| schestowitz | End of Oct mtoo | Jul 15 21:04 |
| _Goblin | and that whilst Linux is knocked for its many distros IMO its the thing thats kept it tight...Windows has to be "one size fits all" | Jul 15 21:05 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: even Beranger blesses wolvix | Jul 15 21:05 |
| schestowitz | and he HATES many distros | Jul 15 21:05 |
| _Goblin | :) | Jul 15 21:05 |
| schestowitz | He stopped blogging for a while | Jul 15 21:05 |
| ThistleWeb | wolvix is slick as a thumbdrive distro | Jul 15 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Maybe his mood swings again | Jul 15 21:05 |
| _Goblin | only issue, no decent Binary news grabber....Ive had to compile Klibido which was a real pain in the a$$ | Jul 15 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Does wolvix come with wolfenstein? | Jul 15 21:06 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Jul 15 21:06 |
| _Goblin | Or (showing my age here) Operation Wolf. | Jul 15 21:06 |
| MinceR | :D | Jul 15 21:06 |
| MinceR | that ancient interactive movie-style game? | Jul 15 21:06 |
| _Goblin | I shudder to think how many 50p's I shoved into that arcade game. | Jul 15 21:07 |
| ThistleWeb | first I tried it, I didnt read the instructions, then was baffled at which user / pass to use as none of the usual live cd combos worked lol | Jul 15 21:07 |
| wallclimber | it's just root, and toor? right? | Jul 15 21:07 |
| ThistleWeb | most have the user / pass on the image behind the login box | Jul 15 21:07 |
| ThistleWeb | wallclimber: tep | Jul 15 21:07 |
| _Goblin | http://www.souzaonline.com/Games/Pictures/Old/operation_wolf.jpg - ah happy times. | Jul 15 21:07 |
| wallclimber | :o) | Jul 15 21:07 |
| ThistleWeb | not that you'd know unless you read it though......which I did after failing miserably the first boot | Jul 15 21:08 |
| wallclimber | I downloaded it to try the same day you did | Jul 15 21:08 |
| _Goblin | wallclimber: yep root and toor.... | Jul 15 21:08 |
| _Goblin | and no prompted creation of more users at install time... | Jul 15 21:09 |
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| schestowitz | Operation Wolf... I loved that game | Jul 15 21:09 |
| ThistleWeb | from memory slackware has all the flash, np3 etc installed | Jul 15 21:09 |
| schestowitz | Does that box run Linux today? | Jul 15 21:10 |
| ThistleWeb | I think | Jul 15 21:10 |
| ThistleWeb | wolvic even | Jul 15 21:10 |
| ThistleWeb | wolvix* | Jul 15 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | brb (shower and all) | Jul 15 21:11 |
| wallclimber | i probably shouldn't admit this here | Jul 15 21:11 |
| schestowitz | You're PJ? | Jul 15 21:11 |
| schestowitz | :-p | Jul 15 21:11 |
| wallclimber | but i used to get upset with my youngest son for playing wolfenstein so much | Jul 15 21:11 |
| wallclimber | lol...yes, we're all pj, of course :) | Jul 15 21:12 |
| schestowitz | No | Jul 15 21:12 |
| schestowitz | She doesn't exist | Jul 15 21:12 |
| ThistleWeb | you should really start to worry when he starts using real guns | Jul 15 21:12 |
| schestowitz | It's an IBM robot | Jul 15 21:12 |
| wallclimber | i did do the "I'm pj" cartoons though | Jul 15 21:12 |
| schestowitz | A result of the experiments with Kasparov | Jul 15 21:12 |
| ThistleWeb | "I'm PJ and so is my wife" | Jul 15 21:12 |
| ThistleWeb | ala life of brian | Jul 15 21:13 |
| MinceR | "I'm PJ" "And so is your FACE!"? | Jul 15 21:13 |
| wallclimber | bye for now...must get back to work | Jul 15 21:14 |
| ThistleWeb | have fun | Jul 15 21:14 |
| *wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jul 15 21:14 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] http://twitpic.com/agtsp - The mighty (or not so) Goblin! Man of mystery and adventure? or simply geeky father with too much time on his ... | Jul 15 21:31 | |
| schestowitz | Turn Ordinary Webcam into a Security Spy Camera on Ubuntu Linux http://www.junauza.com/2009/07/turn-ordinary-webcam-into-security-spy.html | Jul 15 21:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: or as I like to call it | Jul 15 21:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | "film yourself fucking your hot gf while she doesnt know" | Jul 15 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Watch your language | Jul 15 21:42 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: I assume you saw this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8151342.stm <<windows 7 flies off the virtual shelves, comments by IDG of course | Jul 15 21:45 |
| ThistleWeb | even the caption is written by IDG | Jul 15 21:46 |
| ThistleWeb | IDC even | Jul 15 21:46 |
| _Goblin | I saw that BBC article...I also saw its product of the year award it won.... | Jul 15 21:47 |
| _Goblin | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8149460.stm | Jul 15 21:47 |
| _Goblin | I love the criteria: quality, reliability and distinction... | Jul 15 21:48 |
| _Goblin | quality? Vista? | Jul 15 21:48 |
| _Goblin | reliability Windows? | Jul 15 21:48 |
| trmanco | http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.w3c.miscellaneous/2945 | Jul 15 21:49 |
| _Goblin | distinction....maybe infamous....we are all well aware of Windows distinctive security issues. | Jul 15 21:49 |
| trmanco | now why would w3c want to know this? | Jul 15 21:49 |
| ThistleWeb | brand of the year you mean? | Jul 15 21:50 |
| ThistleWeb | makes you wonder who funds superbrands | Jul 15 21:51 |
| ThistleWeb | more vapourware promo on the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8141381.stm life after windows 7, an interview with a MS exec | Jul 15 21:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | superbrand? is that like a superfund? | Jul 15 21:52 |
| ThistleWeb | I notice the link on the windows flies off the shelves page......to the windows 7 pre-order page. I wonder if the BBC are getting kickbacks affiliate style for orders coming from their site | Jul 15 21:53 |
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| _Goblin | having said that, I wonder what the EU and anti-trust will make of it.... | Jul 15 21:56 |
| trmanco | anybody here like interoperability? -> https://www.seg-social.pt/app/gpcc/formulario.aspx | Jul 15 21:56 |
| _Goblin | another example of monopoly? | Jul 15 21:56 |
| trmanco | ping schestowitz | Jul 15 21:56 |
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| ThistleWeb | of course it won't be noted on the books as affiliate sales, it'll no doubt be discussed when the BBC need a new round of MS licences, with the more sales they pumped through to MS, the bigger the discount | Jul 15 21:57 |
| ThistleWeb | along with the more positive stories | Jul 15 21:57 |
| trmanco | not only the site is all b0rked the footer says this -> "NOTA: só são aceites os formatos *.pdf, *.doc,*.jpg ou *.zip" | Jul 15 21:57 |
| tacone | mdz replied | Jul 15 21:58 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Boycott Novell Has New Subscriber http://ping.fm/9xmN7 | Jul 15 22:24 | |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: yes, I saw that | Jul 15 22:26 |
| schestowitz | MSBBC again | Jul 15 22:26 |
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| ThistleWeb | I reckon the only evidence you#d likely see if you could obtain it was a minutes of meetings with MS | Jul 15 22:27 |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 15 22:27 | |
| ThistleWeb | any affiliate stuff would be a strict no no for the BBC offciially | Jul 15 22:27 |
| ThistleWeb | of course that'd all be hidden behind "commercial sensitivity" excuses | Jul 15 22:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ATI R600/700 OSS 3D Driver Reaches Gears Milestone: http://is.gd/1A9ee | Jul 15 22:29 | |
| schestowitz | trmanco: shows up badlhy | Jul 15 22:29 |
| tacone1 | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/one-thing-nobody-told-you-about-mono/ | Jul 15 22:29 |
| schestowitz | ASPX | Jul 15 22:29 |
| tacone1 | canonical cto and my response | Jul 15 22:29 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: I'll quote you tomorrow | Jul 15 22:30 |
| ThistleWeb | cool, just fix my typos first lol | Jul 15 22:31 |
| trmanco | aspxit | Jul 15 22:31 |
| ThistleWeb | consider them CC typos :P | Jul 15 22:31 |
| schestowitz | tacone1: hehe | Jul 15 22:31 |
| schestowitz | I see the replies | Jul 15 22:31 |
| schestowitz | some of them are pro-Mono | Jul 15 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Some got indoctrinated | Jul 15 22:32 |
| tacone1 | i don't care what they are | Jul 15 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Mc* for example | Jul 15 22:32 |
| tacone1 | you don't have to be an idiot to work on mono | Jul 15 22:32 |
| schestowitz | I don't want to mention names | Jul 15 22:32 |
| tacone1 | you could do your mono work and then shut up | Jul 15 22:32 |
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| tacone1 | using feminism is coward | Jul 15 22:32 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: I'll fix them | Jul 15 22:32 |
| schestowitz | It'll be part of a longer post | Jul 15 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Speaking of Mono defenders, look who's joining? | Jul 15 22:33 |
| ThistleWeb | I'm still waiting on a further response from Tesco btw | Jul 15 22:33 |
| ThistleWeb | the new catalog may be in the process of being finished so they may be busy lol | Jul 15 22:33 |
| ThistleWeb | not that I'm really expecting any further responses to be honest | Jul 15 22:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] back from a+e for Freda. tamiflu allergy rash. all is OK now. @arkadyrose and I having large drinks now kthx. *and exhale* send more beer. | Jul 15 22:34 | |
| tessier_ | The load on bn spikes strangely sometimes. | Jul 15 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Jul 15 22:35 |
| tessier_ | I was getting pages at lunch about high load. I'm going to have a lot more performance graphing type stuff set up soon (already got it going for several other machines) so we can better correlate what's going on. | Jul 15 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Is the reason for yesterday's issues known? | Jul 15 22:35 |
| schestowitz | I couldn't see much | Jul 15 22:35 |
| tessier_ | Well, last night I had to take the machine down for a while to do some rewiring. Ended up taking much longer than I expected (as usual). Hopefully that is all behind us now and things will settle down as far as my infrastructure goes. | Jul 15 22:36 |
| tessier_ | As for the other load spike earlier in the day (my day) yesterday no, I haven't seen anything else. | Jul 15 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Walmart's Twitter Policy over the Top? < http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentley/walmarts-twitter-policy-over-the-top/?cs=34081 > | Jul 15 22:38 |
| schestowitz | tessier: seems like it was down for 1-2 hous | Jul 15 22:39 |
| schestowitz | *hours | Jul 15 22:39 |
| schestowitz | tessier: be alert and aware that temperature is high | Jul 15 22:39 |
| schestowitz | Not because of aggravation | Jul 15 22:39 |
| schestowitz | But because I exposed some things that make some companies uncomfortable | Jul 15 22:40 |
| schestowitz | This leads to trolling | Jul 15 22:40 |
| schestowitz | Which is why I disabled comments in two posts | Jul 15 22:40 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft execs subscribe too. They want to keep an eye | Jul 15 22:40 |
| *schestowitz does some Linux news now. FOSS is winning. :-) | Jul 15 22:42 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] comScore: Bing Barely Gaines Share In June 2009: http://is.gd/1AajE | Jul 15 22:49 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ASUS Still Uses Linux on All New Windows PCs http://ping.fm/bZ4mm | Jul 15 22:51 | |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: while I remember, do you use a firefox addon called screengrab? | Jul 15 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Jul 15 22:55 |
| ThistleWeb | it can grab a whole page as a png | Jul 15 22:55 |
| ThistleWeb | not just the visible part | Jul 15 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Oh, I heard of that | Jul 15 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Make a PDF | Jul 15 22:56 |
| ThistleWeb | much better than a screen capture | Jul 15 22:56 |
| ThistleWeb | this one just gives images I think | Jul 15 22:56 |
| ThistleWeb | png is the default | Jul 15 22:56 |
| ThistleWeb | but you can easily make a pdf with the images | Jul 15 22:56 |
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| ThistleWeb | reason I mentioned it is that no doubt some of the stuff you expose is changed later, or taken down......if that happens you have a png to put up | Jul 15 22:57 |
| tacone | next step: rms is bad because he used to be a womanizer | Jul 15 22:57 |
| ThistleWeb | so taking a screengrab png as well as the link could help | Jul 15 22:58 |
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| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: why not source? | Jul 15 22:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Desktop Will Rise When Debt-Saddled Microsoft Perishes http://ping.fm/62qgj | Jul 15 22:59 | |
| schestowitz | Just render it with the browser of choice | Jul 15 22:59 |
| ThistleWeb | it also just grabs what's visible inside the browser window too, without any OS or browser borders | Jul 15 22:59 |
| schestowitz | tacone: moving goalposts | Jul 15 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Canonical is no RMS fan | Jul 15 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Never was | Jul 15 22:59 |
| schestowitz | They were 'pragmatists' | Jul 15 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Gobuntu was a PR effort | Jul 15 23:00 |
| ThistleWeb | use the source as you do, but sometimes a story can be edited or taken down after it gets publicity, then denied | Jul 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Save face | Jul 15 23:00 |
| tacone | pragmatism is ok | Jul 15 23:00 |
| oiaohm | Depends. | Jul 15 23:00 |
| tacone | associating with bashers isn't | Jul 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Novell and RMS... LOL | Jul 15 23:00 |
| ThistleWeb | have the png as a backup evidence if that happens | Jul 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Like Microsoft and RMS | Jul 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Or Microsoft taking advice from RMS | Jul 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Go to Novell.com | Jul 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | With Free software | Jul 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | See how far you get | Jul 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Flash.. ActiveX.. Vista... blech | Jul 15 23:00 |
| oiaohm | Pragmatism that don't do there homework is bad. | Jul 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | IE-only sho | Jul 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | IE-only shop | Jul 15 23:00 |
| tacone | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/one-thing-nobody-told-you-about-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-36202 | Jul 15 23:01 |
| MinceR | pragmatism != short-sightedness | Jul 15 23:01 |
| tacone | i understand canonical's stance on mono | Jul 15 23:02 |
| tacone | i don't understand how they wonder about backslashes | Jul 15 23:02 |
| tacone | a personal attack is a personal attack. and a heavy one. | Jul 15 23:02 |
| ThistleWeb | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1146 <<screengrab, there's also a screengrab to wordpress | Jul 15 23:03 |
| oiaohm | The thing here even if you ship mono for users you still should have a major interest in having its legal status cleared up. | Jul 15 23:03 |
| oiaohm | Then work with the provided legal status to keep your users safe. | Jul 15 23:03 |
| oiaohm | Lot of developers have shown pure disrespect for protection of end user. | Jul 15 23:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Shows That GNU/Linux Has Lower 'TCO' Than Windows http://ping.fm/XyIAS | Jul 15 23:04 | |
| oiaohm | So not allowing end user to make informed selection if they trust mono or not. | Jul 15 23:04 |
| oiaohm | Same with other parts. | Jul 15 23:04 |
| ThistleWeb | canonical are trying to make ubuntu a choice of distro in enterprise environments, where the competition is RHEL, SuSE and Windows, compatibility with Windows is a must, so I can understand them wanting to include mono by default, it's one less thing on the list of things to add post install | Jul 15 23:08 |
| ThistleWeb | with paid support contracts etc | Jul 15 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Mono isn't the thing | Jul 15 23:08 |
| schestowitz | It's not even .NET-compat | Jul 15 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Compat means Samba, OOo, etc. | Jul 15 23:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Tops Server Survey and Windows Sunken to the Bottom http://ping.fm/N63sI | Jul 15 23:09 | |
| schestowitz | Not using apps that are built in Mono | Jul 15 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Or using Silver Lie | Jul 15 23:09 |
| oiaohm | ThistleWeb: Compability has no requirement to run applications in it. | Jul 15 23:10 |
| oiaohm | canonical ships wine but they don't go around providing windows applications installed by default. | Jul 15 23:10 |
| ThistleWeb | having said that, any linux would be easy for the IT peeps to set up the way their company wants it and respin it to install on all their PCs | Jul 15 23:10 |
| ThistleWeb | remove the stuff they dont need like media players and add the stuff they do, potentially like mono | Jul 15 23:11 |
| oiaohm | Respining gives its head aches for Small businesses that don't have large IT staff. | Jul 15 23:11 |
| oiaohm | Something distrobutions are failing to work with. There are way more small businesses than big ones. | Jul 15 23:12 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] There is Zero Fragmentation in Linux. There is Only One Linux. http://ping.fm/tqJuR | Jul 15 23:13 | |
| ThistleWeb | small businesses should be a good target for linux, as they have less time and money to spend on licences and upkeep / repairing | Jul 15 23:13 |
| oiaohm | Should and is are the words. | Jul 15 23:14 |
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| ThistleWeb | when you have a the belief that "all your partners use windows, you need to as well" it dont help | Jul 15 23:14 |
| tacone1 | back | Jul 15 23:14 |
| tacone1 | oiaohm: The thing here even if you ship mono for users you still should have a major interest in having its legal status cleared up. | Jul 15 23:14 |
| oiaohm | There are weaknesses in management systems of distrobutions that make setting up multi pc networks harder. So less suitable to small business. | Jul 15 23:14 |
| tacone1 | oiaohm: that's the point i'm trying to make | Jul 15 23:14 |
| oiaohm | You can use the line tacone1 | Jul 15 23:15 |
| tacone1 | that quote you mean ? | Jul 15 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Jul 15 23:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Even Windows Games Are Designed for GNU/Linux, by Linux Programmers http://ping.fm/DJoS5 | Jul 15 23:16 | |
| oiaohm | You don't even have to quote it tacone1. I will not hold it against you. Its a simple statement of fact. | Jul 15 23:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Number of KDE Contributors Keeps Growing Rapidly http://ping.fm/rxqRm | Jul 15 23:19 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Slackware Jumps up to 64 (Bit) http://ping.fm/OZHV2 | Jul 15 23:22 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] MontaVista Achieves Ultra-fast One Second Linux Boot Time in Embedded Industrial Applications: http://is.gd/1AcsP | Jul 15 23:28 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Roundup of GNU/Linux Distributions Includes Pardus http://ping.fm/SqCz2 | Jul 15 23:28 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hello | Jul 15 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Yo | Jul 15 23:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Starts Playing the Partners Game Against the Monopolist http://ping.fm/FGfZq | Jul 15 23:30 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hi Roy, I noticed in the log that | Jul 15 23:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin was searching for MSP, shouldn't that be MVP ? | Jul 15 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Jul 15 23:31 |
| schestowitz | MSP | Jul 15 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Student Partner IIRC | Jul 15 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Search BN | Jul 15 23:31 |
| schestowitz | You'll se ingfi | Jul 15 23:31 |
| schestowitz | *info | Jul 15 23:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok, still the MVP search is interesting | Jul 15 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Have you a list of them? | Jul 15 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Might be handy to just have | Jul 15 23:32 |
| schestowitz | They brag about it in blogs with banners | Jul 15 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Like the OOXML boosters | Jul 15 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Wouter for instance | Jul 15 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Jumping for dollars | Jul 15 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft incentivises it for them | Jul 15 23:32 |
| ThistleWeb | they have to make it clear to their bosses that they're doing their shill work to get paid | Jul 15 23:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | this one is a MS one listing websites run by MVP's: http://www.mvps.org/links.html | Jul 15 23:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | google for MVP the first hit is MS list of MVP that will allow themselves to give out public information. The website run by MVP is more interesting, I think | Jul 15 23:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | But then finding out the silverlight and net MVP means mean something as well | Jul 15 23:35 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Trimmed-down Ubuntu is Preparing for New Release Under "WattOS" Name http://ping.fm/voX7R | Jul 15 23:36 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | some of those websites run by MVP will most likely be fronts for just the facts type websites | Jul 15 23:37 |
| schestowitz | They are | Jul 15 23:37 |
| schestowitz | The lucky ones get a wage | Jul 15 23:38 |
| schestowitz | And full-time job | Jul 15 23:38 |
| schestowitz | It's called TE | Jul 15 23:38 |
| schestowitz | They keep their old blogs | Jul 15 23:38 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Special Linux PC Targets GPS and GPRS http://ping.fm/HwaNv | Jul 15 23:38 | |
| schestowitz | And work more undercover to advance tech by policing and flooding | Jul 15 23:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I would not be surprized if some are just not paid under the table in some way to just run websites too | Jul 15 23:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not all the MVP's of course | Jul 15 23:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | most | Jul 15 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Chwag, events, fame.... | Jul 15 23:39 |
| schestowitz | They can be rewarded somehow | Jul 15 23:39 |
| schestowitz | It's reciprocal | Jul 15 23:39 |
| schestowitz | They are partners | Jul 15 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Like in colonies | Jul 15 23:39 |
| schestowitz | If you look at history | Jul 15 23:39 |
| schestowitz | The reason empire can expand so much is partners | Jul 15 23:40 |
| schestowitz | And regimes that are puppets | Jul 15 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Like the Roman empire, the Nazi expansion etc. | Jul 15 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft just needs enough people like Richars Steel for example | Jul 15 23:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | cheaper way to pay some, just reward them with laptop and or title | Jul 15 23:40 |
| schestowitz | To give them control of London for example | Jul 15 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Each city has its 'MS constables' | Jul 15 23:40 |
| schestowitz | People whom Microsoft can bribes in all sorts of ways to ensure the tax goes to Microsofgt | Jul 15 23:41 |
| schestowitz | it's a cycle | Jul 15 23:41 |
| schestowitz | You give your cities' money to Microsot and it shares the loot with you | Jul 15 23:41 |
| schestowitz | This system can onyl ever thrive in ignorance and/or apathy | Jul 15 23:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, its another list, to help identify those who have connection to M$. To catch a $hill | Jul 15 23:41 |
| schestowitz | in BN we can help explain how these things work | Jul 15 23:41 |
| schestowitz | OSI links to us | Jul 15 23:41 |
| schestowitz | E.g. regarding how the predatory gates Foundation blackmails governments | Jul 15 23:42 |
| schestowitz | And how they work with pharmas to increase their profits | Jul 15 23:42 |
| schestowitz | Very simple scam, very hard to find it in the big media | Jul 15 23:42 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the foundation work in africa, with the pharmas | Jul 15 23:42 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Jul 15 23:45 |
| schestowitz | I have posts about that coming | Jul 15 23:45 |
| schestowitz | Other journalists see this | Jul 15 23:45 |
| schestowitz | How patents are used to buy lives | Jul 15 23:45 |
| schestowitz | And to colonise more countries | Jul 15 23:45 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Gates is innocently USED in this | Jul 15 23:46 |
| schestowitz | And maybe he's sincerely not aware of it | Jul 15 23:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MontaVista Marks 10-Year Birthday http://ping.fm/CVKOT in 1 Second (of Linux Booting) http://ping.fm/o4i8o | Jul 15 23:46 | |
| schestowitz | The public is of course indoctrinated by the business press... white aristocrats holding black babies | Jul 15 23:46 |
| schestowitz | "Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww......" | Jul 15 23:46 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Explains Why Linux Phones Are Inherently Better & Ahead of iPhone http://ping.fm/T5700 | Jul 15 23:49 | |
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| HoustonLawy3r | Roy? | Jul 15 23:57 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 15 23:57 | |
| HoustonLawy3r | Wow, IRC. I've avoided these since college. | Jul 15 23:58 |
| schestowitz | hey | Jul 15 23:59 |
| schestowitz | HoustonLawy3r: what's up? | Jul 15 23:59 |
| HoustonLawy3r | Hey there. We were tweeting about Linux distributions. (no spell check on here I see). | Jul 15 23:59 |
| schestowitz | HoustonLawy3r: yes, I didn't use IRC for about 12 years, until last year | Jul 15 23:59 |
| HoustonLawy3r | and now? | Jul 15 23:59 |
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