IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 10th, 2009

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*DaemonFC gives twitter a http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/community/columns/historyofie.mspxAug 10 00:41
DaemonFCheheAug 10 00:41
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XarverHey guys do you know how I can get members on my forum effectively?Aug 10 01:45
DaemonFCpay the iMagicOS people to spam it for you?Aug 10 01:49
DaemonFC:DAug 10 01:49
DaemonFCKubuntu + A little bit of Windows Vista-colored lipstick + $100 = iMagicOSAug 10 01:50
DaemonFCI was jsut reading some locked posts they were spamming on other distributions forums a while backAug 10 01:51
DaemonFCthe CEO goes around pretending to be "a user"Aug 10 01:51
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Xarver:PAug 10 02:06
DaemonFCschestowitz: Want to start a pool to buy SCO?Aug 10 02:30
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DaemonFChttp://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=4619Aug 10 04:11
DaemonFCWhat Asus wants in a LinuxAug 10 04:11
DaemonFChehAug 10 04:11
DaemonFCschestowitz fodderAug 10 04:11
DaemonFC"Linux’ only hope in cracking the Taiwanese netbook market is with a Linux whose owner is willing to pony up the big bucks for both pre-sales and post-sales support."Aug 10 04:13
DaemonFCMicrosoft does NOT support OEM WindowsAug 10 04:13
DaemonFCthe EULA says that whoever installed it is tech supportAug 10 04:14
DaemonFCyou can pay them $30 per incident thoughAug 10 04:14
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yuhongFrom <http://schestowitz.com/UseNet/2008/July_2008_2/msg00546.html>Aug 10 04:23
yuhong"Ugh.  Vista is a recap."Aug 10 04:23
yuhongActually, I think Transmeta was the more important recap.Aug 10 04:23
yuhonghttp://fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Computers/CPUs/05.2000.IEEE_Transmeta/Aug 10 04:24
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luwsrhiAug 10 04:24
luwsrhow's your one man fight against m$$$?Aug 10 04:24
yuhongOne man?Aug 10 04:25
yuhongLook under "Houston, we have a problem..."Aug 10 04:25
luwsruh?Aug 10 04:36
luwsrlook honestly there's nothing m$$ can do about it.Aug 10 04:36
yuhongI was refering to my previous link.Aug 10 04:38
luwsrm$$ simply can't go after IBM, Oracle, Red Hat, Google not to mention the vast linux industrial-complex network.Aug 10 04:38
yuhong>http://fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Computers/CPUs/05.2000.IEEE_Transmeta/Aug 10 04:38
yuhongAbout how Transmeta recaped the Pentium Pro/Win95 disaster where Win95 was shown to be less 32-bit than it was hyped to be.Aug 10 04:39
luwsrtransmeta still exists?Aug 10 04:39
yuhongNo, in fact this story happened before it finished it's first processor.Aug 10 04:39
yuhongIt happened to be more precise in August 1998.Aug 10 04:40
yuhongTransmeta like Intel had to spend time redesigning their processor so it ran 16-bit code better.Aug 10 04:40
luwsrI like that type of articles that go into historical and technical detail.Aug 10 04:41
luwsr16-bit processor??Aug 10 04:42
luwsrwtf!!Aug 10 04:42
yuhongYep, Windows 95 (and in fact the entire Win9x family) had a lot of 16-bit codeAug 10 04:42
yuhongDespite the fact it was hyped as a 32-bit OS.Aug 10 04:43
yuhongThe PPro was designed to run 32-bit code, not 16-bit code.Aug 10 04:43
DaemonFCI liked Windows 95 though, so oh wellAug 10 04:43
luwsrwow!! m$$ have been lying throught their entire development.Aug 10 04:43
luwsramazing.Aug 10 04:43
DaemonFCran great on my old Pentium 166Aug 10 04:44
yuhongYep.Aug 10 04:44
DaemonFCLinux wasn't even an option back thenAug 10 04:44
DaemonFCit existed, kind ofAug 10 04:44
DaemonFCgood luck getting it to work on anythingAug 10 04:44
yuhongAnd the PPro was the processor that single-handedly revealed the 16-bit code in Win95..Aug 10 04:44
luwsrimagine the generation-linux, they will never have a figment of memories about m$$Aug 10 04:44
yuhongYep, I know.Aug 10 04:45
DaemonFCthe Pentium Pro was a crap processorAug 10 04:45
DaemonFCrun *any* OS on it and take benchmarksAug 10 04:45
DaemonFCthey all sufferAug 10 04:45
yuhongBS.Aug 10 04:45
luwsrwhat do you expect of a secretary's OS.Aug 10 04:46
luwsrnot every processor has to be a CELLAug 10 04:46
yuhong"The magnitude of his lie is shown in the relative performance of OS/2Aug 10 04:46
yuhong   and Win95 on the Pentium Pro: one 32-bit OS/2 app has shownAug 10 04:46
yuhong   performance increases of over 100% on the Pentium Pro. "Aug 10 04:46
DaemonFCI tried BeOS on a Pentium Pro and was equally disappointedAug 10 04:46
yuhongHave you tried WinNT or OS/2?Aug 10 04:46
DaemonFCBeOS didn't have any 16-bit code at allAug 10 04:47
yuhongAnyway, what I mean was that Transmeta was later bit by this as well, causing the Crusoe to be delayed by one year.Aug 10 04:47
DaemonFCno, I didn't try Windows NT on itAug 10 04:48
yuhongWhat about OS/2?Aug 10 04:48
DaemonFCcause Windows NT was expensive and incompatibleAug 10 04:48
DaemonFCOS/2 was obscureAug 10 04:48
DaemonFCnobody near here even sold itAug 10 04:48
luwsris Transmeta dead for good?Aug 10 04:48
yuhongYes, I think, in fact they stop making CPUs in 2005.Aug 10 04:49
DaemonFCyeah, they diedAug 10 04:49
DaemonFCLinus Torvalds took them for a ride thoughAug 10 04:49
yuhongAnyway, they again had to redesign their processor so that it runs 16-bit code better.Aug 10 04:49
luwsrdamnAug 10 04:49
cubezzzwho makes cpus other than Intel and AMD now?Aug 10 04:50
DaemonFCViaAug 10 04:50
yuhongYep, their Nano processor support 64-bit.Aug 10 04:50
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_TechnologiesAug 10 04:50
yuhongAnyway, I don't think BeOS for x86 even existed back in 1995.Aug 10 04:51
DaemonFCit didn'tAug 10 04:51
yuhongThey only did the porting to x86 in 1997.Aug 10 04:51
cubezzzBeBox ftw :)Aug 10 04:51
yuhongYep.Aug 10 04:51
luwsrwow, the whole concept of transmeta was to emulate x86?? that's terribly flawed strategy.Aug 10 04:52
DaemonFCthey all emulate x86Aug 10 04:52
DaemonFCif you want to be pickyAug 10 04:52
yuhongYep.Aug 10 04:52
cubezzzwhat about Motorola? They used to make CPUsAug 10 04:52
DaemonFCyeah, they designed quite a bit of the PowerPCAug 10 04:53
luwsrI don't mean virtual emulators I mean why make a processor solely for emulation another processor??Aug 10 04:53
DaemonFCMotorola doesn't design CPUs anymore thoughAug 10 04:53
DaemonFCluwsr: They all run x86 instruction set on a CISC coreAug 10 04:53
yuhongYep, they ended up spinning this off to Freescale.Aug 10 04:53
DaemonFCit's faster that wayAug 10 04:53
yuhong*RISC.Aug 10 04:53
DaemonFCnoAug 10 04:53
DaemonFCCISCAug 10 04:53
luwsrVIA is x86Aug 10 04:53
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_Instruction_Set_ComputerAug 10 04:54
cubezzzso everything is x86 basically?Aug 10 04:54
DaemonFC"Examples of CISC processor families are System/360, PDP-11, VAX, 68000, and x86."Aug 10 04:54
luwsrwhat's the point of amd intel via competition if they all design the same arch??Aug 10 04:54
cubezzzexcept arm I guessAug 10 04:54
DaemonFCbecause they don't all implement it the same wayAug 10 04:54
luwsrand mipsAug 10 04:54
DaemonFCand because they all have their own extensionsAug 10 04:54
luwsrbut they all have to porferm the same. Or else software would have to have code changesAug 10 04:55
DaemonFCit doesAug 10 04:55
DaemonFCyou just don't notice itAug 10 04:55
yuhongAnyway here is one more article about this.Aug 10 04:55
yuhonghttp://www.os2ezine.com/v2n6/editor.htmAug 10 04:55
DaemonFCyou can optimize compiled software for Intel64, AMD64, or generic X86-64Aug 10 04:55
DaemonFCand AMD CPUs support 3dNow!Aug 10 04:56
DaemonFCas well as Intel SSE-SSE4Aug 10 04:56
luwsrso are you telling me company making a software has three versions of their program? one for amd another for intel and another for via??Aug 10 04:56
DaemonFCthe compiler can spit out a binary using the common elements of both Intel64 and AMD64Aug 10 04:56
DaemonFCand the resulting binary will work on eitherAug 10 04:56
DaemonFCjust not optimizedAug 10 04:56
DaemonFCthat's how Linux distros ship their kernelAug 10 04:57
DaemonFCand the rest of the systemAug 10 04:57
luwsrnot Gentoo :)Aug 10 04:57
yuhongNo not usually, what they usually do is detect the CPU and run the correct code.Aug 10 04:57
DaemonFCoptimizing for one or the other will wrangle out a slight performance boostAug 10 04:57
DaemonFC2-3%Aug 10 04:57
luwsrcool, I'll take thatAug 10 04:58
DaemonFCalso the cores are different in the ways they process instructionsAug 10 04:58
DaemonFCAMD pioneered the x86 on CISC thingAug 10 04:58
DaemonFCand for a while, AMD processors smoked everythign Intel had at half the priceAug 10 04:58
yuhongYep, there are far less difference between Intel 64 and AMD64 today than when they were introduced.Aug 10 04:58
DaemonFCthey cross license each others patentsAug 10 04:59
yuhongYep.Aug 10 04:59
DaemonFCit's some good old fashioned horse tradingAug 10 04:59
DaemonFCVia also holds a few patents over Intel's headAug 10 04:59
DaemonFCand has gotten concessions from them with thatAug 10 04:59
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Technologies#Legal_issuesAug 10 04:59
yuhongYep, and if you are wondering why Intel's first x86-64 CPUs did not have LAHF/SAHF, here is a blast from the past:Aug 10 05:00
DaemonFCreally the idea of loading a 100% "free software" pc is not doableAug 10 05:00
luwsrwhat do you meanAug 10 05:00
DaemonFCthere's patents on your hardware, there's patents on the CPU microcode that the kernel has to applyAug 10 05:00
DaemonFCthere's patents on your BIOSAug 10 05:00
cubezzzlemote :)Aug 10 05:01
cubezzzeven Stallman likes itAug 10 05:01
DaemonFCCoreboot would be nice if it supported more than three motherboards :)Aug 10 05:01
luwsrwell, the FOSS front is inching towards  them as well. the OpenBoot project.Aug 10 05:01
DaemonFCnot going to happenAug 10 05:01
luwsrLMAO@3 mobosAug 10 05:01
DaemonFCat the rate they are going, EFI will be the standard before they even support 10% of the motherboards out thereAug 10 05:02
cubezzzI'm pretty sure you can get Tyan boards with open bios of some sortAug 10 05:02
luwsryou can make your own corebootAug 10 05:02
yuhongYep, there are many OEM systems released this year where the BIOS is at least based on EFI.Aug 10 05:02
DaemonFCmy point isAug 10 05:02
DaemonFCtry as you might, you'll never have a patent-free PCAug 10 05:02
DaemonFCsomeone owns a patent on everything down to the case designAug 10 05:03
cubezzzbah, you can make a caseAug 10 05:03
DaemonFCStallman and Co. spent all their time masturbating and ripping out OpenGL and a few wifi driversAug 10 05:03
DaemonFCwhen even bootng their PC was impossible without proprietary firmwaresAug 10 05:03
cubezzzI'd settle for a completely non-microsoft computerAug 10 05:04
DaemonFCwhat you'd need to do is build an entire computer system from the ground up and avoid every patent that could be lurking out thereAug 10 05:04
DaemonFCit would never work and even if it did, you wouldn't want to use itAug 10 05:05
luwsrDaemonFC: that's the idealAug 10 05:05
cubezzzdon't patents expire? :)Aug 10 05:05
DaemonFCeventually, but there can always be new onesAug 10 05:05
DaemonFCso your system would never be as good as theirsAug 10 05:05
DaemonFCunless you got hold of your own patentsAug 10 05:05
DaemonFCand threatened them backAug 10 05:05
cubezzzfree bios, free os is good enoughAug 10 05:06
yuhonghttp://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/x86-64_overview.pdfAug 10 05:06
cubezzzpatent free is probably extremely hardAug 10 05:06
yuhongAnd well, hardware patents are less harmful than software patents.Aug 10 05:06
DaemonFCeven other architectures are patent encumberedAug 10 05:06
DaemonFCincluding ARMAug 10 05:07
yuhongYep.Aug 10 05:07
yuhongLuckily hardware patents are less harmful than software patents.Aug 10 05:07
DaemonFCwrongAug 10 05:07
DaemonFCthey still force prices up and you still have to depend on something you can't understandAug 10 05:07
cubezzzsome smallish company goes bust, no one buys their patents, patents expire = patent free computer :)Aug 10 05:08
DaemonFCthat's another reason x86 is saferAug 10 05:08
DaemonFCmost other architectures only have one vendorAug 10 05:08
DaemonFCso say Linux moves to ARM and gets a nice little niche going over there and suddenly, the prices go upAug 10 05:09
DaemonFCthere's nowhere to goAug 10 05:10
DaemonFCas far as I know, Texas Instruments is the only manufacturer of the kind of ARM-based CPUs these little netbooks depend onAug 10 05:12
cubezzzdidn't intell buy arm?Aug 10 05:12
DaemonFCnoAug 10 05:12
yuhongNo, in face ARM has a plenty of vendors.Aug 10 05:12
DaemonFCARM is licensable, and lots of companies license itAug 10 05:13
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cubezzzahAug 10 05:13
DaemonFCbut only TI makes them for systems like these netbooksAug 10 05:13
luwsrARM has google and nvidiaAug 10 05:13
DaemonFCthe others are only interested in cell phones and PDAs and shitAug 10 05:13
DaemonFCyeah, you can run a compute cluster on Nvidia GPUsAug 10 05:13
DaemonFCit's called the Tesla systemAug 10 05:14
luwsrso nvidia plans to take on AMD and Intal with their Tegra ARM cpu??Aug 10 05:14
DaemonFCyou still need an x86-based CPU thoughAug 10 05:14
DaemonFCthe Tesla is essentially a couple GPUs on one expansion card, PCI-EAug 10 05:14
DaemonFCbut they don't have any monitor outputsAug 10 05:14
DaemonFCyou plug as many of them in as you needAug 10 05:15
DaemonFCand you have yourself a homemade supercomputerAug 10 05:15
luwsrbah, same as having multiple GPUsAug 10 05:15
DaemonFCyeah, it uses CUDAAug 10 05:15
DaemonFCworks with Linux or WindowsAug 10 05:15
luwsrbut how much is a Tesla computer?Aug 10 05:15
DaemonFCabout $5,000 and upAug 10 05:15
cubezzzI've heard of old TTL based home brew computersAug 10 05:15
DaemonFCthat's pretty cheap reallyAug 10 05:15
DaemonFCthat much processing power with conventional CPUs will run you more like $50,000 on upAug 10 05:16
DaemonFCit's worth the investment for scientific research on a budgetAug 10 05:16
DaemonFCWindows 7 actually has a neat feature that I don't think Linux doesAug 10 05:17
DaemonFCnow that I mention GPUsAug 10 05:17
DaemonFCwell, a fewAug 10 05:17
DaemonFCbut the neatest one is SLI/Crossfire and multiple monitor support with two brands of GPUAug 10 05:17
DaemonFCso I can have a Geforce and a Radeon both in the system and Windows 7 and DirectX 11 will utilize bothAug 10 05:18
DaemonFCI don't think any other operating system does thatAug 10 05:18
DaemonFCmakes it less of a hassle to use scanline interleave without worrying about matched models and manufacturersAug 10 05:19
DaemonFCyou should definitely prioritize GPU if you have to choose where to put your moneyAug 10 05:20
luwsrwow coolAug 10 05:20
luwsrand the white leopard got GPGU offloading. This linux doesn't have it eitherAug 10 05:21
DaemonFCWindows 7 doesAug 10 05:21
DaemonFCit's a new DirectX extension called ComputeAug 10 05:21
DaemonFCDirectX may be fairly evenly matched with OpenGL for features, that's debatable and will cause a flame warAug 10 05:22
DaemonFCbut Linux does a terrible job at utilizing the GPU for regular processing tasksAug 10 05:22
DaemonFCyour application has to be written specifically for the computational API of Nvidia or ATIAug 10 05:23
DaemonFCand only applications that are smart enough to use it will have access to itAug 10 05:23
DaemonFCand this won't work with any free software driversAug 10 05:24
DaemonFCso as far as offloading to the GPU, it's pretty much Game. Set. Match. in favor of Windows and OS XAug 10 05:24
luwsrdamn...Aug 10 05:25
DaemonFCnow that's just one case and one feature that I happen to care about, there's plenty of stuff Linux can do that leaves Windows and OS X in the dustAug 10 05:25
DaemonFCyou really just have to prioritize what you care about when picking oneAug 10 05:25
luwsrwell, I mostly use CLI. GPGU off loading is only for bloat OSesAug 10 05:25
luwsrwhat GPGU offloading needs vim to do??Aug 10 05:25
DaemonFCvideo games can use it, the GUI can use it, more and more normal tasks can execute on the GPUAug 10 05:26
luwsrfluxbox??Aug 10 05:26
DaemonFCeventually Linux will have to support it one way or anotherAug 10 05:26
luwsrI even prefer framebuffer console than XAug 10 05:26
DaemonFCyou can get that in specialyl written Linux apps now, and in fact, that's one reason why Rosetta@Home is so freaking fast on PS3Aug 10 05:26
DaemonFCbut Windows is pretty vendor neutral and you don't have to necessarily have an application that's aware of it to benefitAug 10 05:27
DaemonFCwell, this basically requires a compositing engine to accelerate the GUIAug 10 05:27
luwsrwhat's rosetta@home?Aug 10 05:27
DaemonFCCompiz is really bad for thisAug 10 05:27
DaemonFCKWin is pretty much idealAug 10 05:28
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta@homeAug 10 05:28
DaemonFCdisease researchAug 10 05:28
DaemonFCit uses distributed computing to have millions of PCs do a little piece of the work at a timeAug 10 05:28
DaemonFCit gives them a virtual supercomputerAug 10 05:28
DaemonFCyou can volunteer to run itAug 10 05:29
DaemonFCthere's other applications you can runAug 10 05:29
DaemonFCmostly involving physics or advanced mathAug 10 05:29
luwsrif Transmeta was such a groundbreaking technology why didn't take off??Aug 10 05:29
DaemonFCSETI@Home is another oneAug 10 05:29
DaemonFCprobably because of cost overruns and delaysAug 10 05:30
DaemonFCthat's usually what kills a companyAug 10 05:30
DaemonFCthen some competitor swoops in and buys them for a song with most of the development already doneAug 10 05:30
luwsrbut another company could've pick up the were they left off.Aug 10 05:30
DaemonFCthat's kind of why they get bought outAug 10 05:31
DaemonFCthey get bought out, the company that takes them over cherry picks the good assettsAug 10 05:31
DaemonFCand throws away the unprofitable partsAug 10 05:31
DaemonFCand fires all the redundant employees they don't needAug 10 05:31
yuhongActually, Transmeta did this long before they sold off.Aug 10 05:33
luwsrha ha like Sun MycrosystemsAug 10 05:33
DaemonFCthere's exciting stuff coming on all three major OS platforms, it's really the hardware that's not improvingAug 10 05:33
yuhongNot exactly.Aug 10 05:33
DaemonFCas in CPUsAug 10 05:33
DaemonFCI think eventually the CPU will be reduced to the role of managing a lot of GPU coresAug 10 05:34
DaemonFCand that will become a PCAug 10 05:34
luwsrlolAug 10 05:34
luwsrlet's seeAug 10 05:34
DaemonFCthat's similar to how the Cell works anywayAug 10 05:34
yuhongAnd after they threw out the unprofitable parts (CPUs) and focused exclusively on IP, they showed a profit.Aug 10 05:34
DaemonFCone general purpose processor that breaks the workload into bite sized unitsAug 10 05:34
DaemonFCand a lot of secondary processor units that are more like video card shader unitsAug 10 05:35
DaemonFCthat run the task in chunksAug 10 05:35
DaemonFCyou'll have an entire distributed computing cluster inside your desktop PC soonAug 10 05:35
DaemonFCAMD saw this comingAug 10 05:36
DaemonFCI think in the long term, they are better prepared than anyone elseAug 10 05:36
luwsrlol Windown95 sank Transmeta's ship!!Aug 10 05:36
DaemonFCin the short term, you're best off with Intel and NvidiaAug 10 05:36
luwsra flimsy shitty 16-bit crap sank a titanicAug 10 05:37
DaemonFCWindows XP has Transmeta processor driversAug 10 05:37
DaemonFCactuallyAug 10 05:37
DaemonFCfor the Crusoe CPUAug 10 05:37
yuhongYep.Aug 10 05:37
DaemonFCthe driver is 25 kilobytesAug 10 05:37
DaemonFCsad that I know this much about Windows XPAug 10 05:37
yuhongAnd no Win95 did not sink transmeta, but it did delay it's first CPU.Aug 10 05:37
DaemonFC:DAug 10 05:37
yuhongBy a year.Aug 10 05:38
luwsr25 kb meaning is good or bad?Aug 10 05:38
DaemonFCmeaning mehAug 10 05:38
DaemonFCif you don't have a Transmeta Crusoe, you can remove the driver from the install imageAug 10 05:38
DaemonFCand save, 25 kilobytes, hooray!Aug 10 05:38
yuhongOf course.Aug 10 05:39
DaemonFCI've actually stripped XP down to about 1/5th its original sizeAug 10 05:39
DaemonFCand still had Windows Media Player, DirectX, and Internet ExplorerAug 10 05:39
DaemonFCyou'd hardly even know anything was goneAug 10 05:39
yuhongWhile they did what Intel had to do with the Pentium II, to make it run 16-bit code better.Aug 10 05:40
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DaemonFCit actualyl did run 16-bit code 20% faster than a PentiumAug 10 05:40
DaemonFC(The Pentium Pro that is)Aug 10 05:40
DaemonFCit just cost so much more that it wasn't worth havingAug 10 05:41
DaemonFCpaying 3 times as much for a CPU that's 20% faster is ridiculousAug 10 05:41
yuhongReally?Aug 10 05:42
yuhong"More recently, Shupak returned to this topic by referring to Intel benchmarks showing Win95 gains over 20% in performance on the Pentium Pro. That benchmark has been openly rebuked by PC Magazine, who pointed out how it was rigged and how you would never see that gain in real life."Aug 10 05:43
twitterGod Awful Logic.  Basically, "Choice leads to traps, better not to have them" ->  DaemonFC: that's another reason x86 is safer ... say Linux moves to ARM and gets a nice little niche going over there and suddenly, the prices go up there's nowhere to goAug 10 05:43
twitterDebian runs on more than a dozen architectures.  Some BSDs run on even more.  Choice is what keeps you from being gouged.Aug 10 05:43
luwsrwtf, the twitts invasion of irc!!!Aug 10 05:43
luwsroh noez!!Aug 10 05:44
DaemonFCwell, kind of anywayAug 10 05:44
DaemonFCthings like Skype will never go for that shitAug 10 05:44
DaemonFCnor will video gamesAug 10 05:44
twitterThat will be Skype's loss.Aug 10 05:44
DaemonFCnot reallyAug 10 05:44
DaemonFCif you want to be out on an island, that's your businessAug 10 05:44
DaemonFCI don'tAug 10 05:44
twitterAnd they already do ARM on iPhone.Aug 10 05:44
luwsrthe reason I switched to linux was because XP didn't fit in 128MB of ram.Aug 10 05:45
yuhongWell, I mentioned before that ARM netbooks are good news for RISC OS too.Aug 10 05:45
DaemonFCI've used XP with 128 MB of RAM beforeAug 10 05:45
twitterSkype would do better to leave the non free island.  There's nothing but imbred cannibals there.Aug 10 05:45
DaemonFCthe non-free continentAug 10 05:46
cubezzzwow, I thought XP was sluggish on 512 meg :)Aug 10 05:46
twitterthe free worldAug 10 05:46
twitterXP is a slug on anything.Aug 10 05:46
DaemonFCto the open source archipelagoAug 10 05:46
twitterkeep dreaming Deamon.Aug 10 05:46
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DaemonFClet me know if you find any coconuts out thereAug 10 05:46
luwsrhow did you managed to cut it down to 1/5th??Aug 10 05:46
DaemonFCthere's every other kind ;)Aug 10 05:46
luwsrI am interestedAug 10 05:46
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DaemonFCstuff that I didn't need all got cut outAug 10 05:47
DaemonFCnLite can do that easilyAug 10 05:47
yuhongAnd have you heard of XP Embedded?Aug 10 05:47
DaemonFCI have itAug 10 05:47
DaemonFCand Windows FLPAug 10 05:47
Diablo-D3okay soAug 10 05:47
DaemonFCand Windows XP Media Center 2005Aug 10 05:47
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: have you clued up yet?Aug 10 05:47
DaemonFCand XP Pro, XP Home, XP x64Aug 10 05:47
DaemonFC:DAug 10 05:47
twittercongratulations on stripping a 10 year old OS of cruft.  too bad it's not free software, then you could make it like Puppy and fit into 50 MB with software that's worth running.Aug 10 05:47
Diablo-D3twitter: shit dudeAug 10 05:48
DaemonFCyou're better off to go with XP ProfessionalAug 10 05:48
Diablo-D3they ship modern bsd distros that fit on a 1.44mb floppyAug 10 05:48
DaemonFCthe niche versions are not well supportedAug 10 05:48
twitterDeamonFC is better off with XPAug 10 05:48
DaemonFCXP x64 is usable thoughAug 10 05:48
yuhongYou would not see as many BSoDs on signs without XP embdeddedAug 10 05:48
Diablo-D3xp64 isnt usable for one reason: no goddamned vendor supportAug 10 05:48
cubezzzhehAug 10 05:48
DaemonFCWindows FLP is based on XP EmbeddedAug 10 05:48
yuhongVista x64 is better.Aug 10 05:49
Diablo-D3yuhong: yeah muchAug 10 05:49
Diablo-D3and 7 is better yetAug 10 05:49
twitterwonderfulAug 10 05:49
Diablo-D3since 7 uses the same drivers in 99% of the cases ;)Aug 10 05:49
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Fundamentals_for_Legacy_PCsAug 10 05:49
yuhongIn general, but it requires driver signing, unlike XP x64.Aug 10 05:49
DaemonFCif you have an old PC, find this floating around somewhereAug 10 05:49
DaemonFC:DAug 10 05:49
Diablo-D3XP FLP is weirdAug 10 05:49
twitterXubuntuAug 10 05:49
DaemonFCit does have it's own version of SP3 thoughAug 10 05:49
Diablo-D3its basically 2k built out of XP's treeAug 10 05:49
Diablo-D3defaults to the classic theme, turns of all the crap for youAug 10 05:49
DaemonFCXubuntu is crapAug 10 05:50
twitterXP is crapAug 10 05:50
DaemonFCXFCE stripped down third rate crapAug 10 05:50
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: please qualify your statementAug 10 05:50
yuhongNo, it uses XP code and is even more trimmed down than 2000.Aug 10 05:50
MinceReverything is crapAug 10 05:50
Diablo-D3xubuntu is just ubuntu with xfce-desktop installed by default instead of gnome-desktopAug 10 05:50
twitterXP is bloated 3rd rate crap.Aug 10 05:50
twitterXFCE is fineAug 10 05:50
luwsrI get XP vi$ta and m$7 all running under KVMAug 10 05:50
twitterworks niceAug 10 05:50
DaemonFCXubuntu is far more bloated than XPAug 10 05:50
twitterlolAug 10 05:50
Diablo-D3xubuntu can work fine in 64 megs of memoryAug 10 05:50
DaemonFCyou can install XP in half as much spaceAug 10 05:50
twitterI need to ignore you FC, your Full of Crap.Aug 10 05:51
cubezzztime to break out LFS :)Aug 10 05:51
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: who cares how much space the install usesAug 10 05:51
MinceRwindows is some of the crappiest crap of allAug 10 05:51
DaemonFCcause XP uses less RAM tooAug 10 05:51
Diablo-D3okay damnitAug 10 05:51
Diablo-D3all in favor of banning DaemonFC forever, raise your handAug 10 05:51
*Diablo-D3 raises handAug 10 05:51
*DaemonFC raises middle fingerAug 10 05:51
luwsrLMAO@middle fingerAug 10 05:51
luwsrfluxbox is niceAug 10 05:52
*MinceR raises handAug 10 05:52
*DaemonFC raises other middle fingerAug 10 05:52
Diablo-D3twitter: raise your handAug 10 05:52
twitterawww, the M$ defenders at Slashdot modbombed my last submission.  http://slashdot.org/submission/1052885/Is-Vista-7-the-Least-Compatible-Windows-of-AllAug 10 05:52
twittershameAug 10 05:52
luwsrI've been with fluxboxAug 10 05:52
twitterThere are so many bad stories about Windows for them to mod down.Aug 10 05:53
*DaemonFC raises hand swiftly, shioving Siablo-D3's nose back into his skullAug 10 05:53
DaemonFCthat better?Aug 10 05:53
DaemonFC*Diable-D3Aug 10 05:53
yuhongtwitter: I would not go that far.Aug 10 05:53
Diablo-D3violence, the last refuge for the ignorantAug 10 05:53
DaemonFCnot reallyAug 10 05:53
luwsrm$$ sucksAug 10 05:53
Diablo-D3luwsr: m$ doesnt suck, unfortunatelyAug 10 05:54
DaemonFCviolence solves a lot of problemsAug 10 05:54
Diablo-D3otherwise I'd probably be in a steady relationship with it by nowAug 10 05:54
luwsror are a m$$ fanboi?Aug 10 05:54
Diablo-D3linux, otoh, is a slut. a wonderful slut.Aug 10 05:54
Diablo-D3and the best part of all: linux is virus free <3Aug 10 05:54
yuhongMe, I have a slashdot submission that got rejected as well.Aug 10 05:54
luwsrm$ DOES suck, I can tell you from experience and everyone I know has virus ridden m$$Aug 10 05:54
yuhonghttp://slashdot.org/submission/1043925/MS-FAT-LFN-patent-workaround-patch-revisedAug 10 05:55
DaemonFCthose who say violence never solves anything should ask the Japanese about Hiroshima and NagasakiAug 10 05:55
yuhongParticularly read the first sentence after the beginning quote mark.Aug 10 05:55
DaemonFCyou get more with a kind word and a two by four than you do with jsut a kind wordAug 10 05:55
luwsrhey why can't Athlon x2 use from 1MHz to 2600Mhz?Aug 10 05:56
DaemonFCcome again?Aug 10 05:56
luwsrit can only jump from 1000Mhz to 2400Mhz and 2600MhzAug 10 05:56
DaemonFCyou mean with Cool 'n Quiet?Aug 10 05:57
DaemonFCthey have set speeds they can cycle betweenAug 10 05:57
DaemonFCsame with Intel SpeedstepAug 10 05:57
luwsrthe PSP can go frm 10MHz all the way to 333MHzAug 10 05:57
luwsrbut why can't linux use single cycles?Aug 10 05:57
DaemonFCit adjusts the CPU voltageAug 10 05:58
DaemonFCthat's how it controls the current clock speedAug 10 05:58
luwsrI have cpufreq ondemand and the 1000MHz minimum limit doesn't look very neat.Aug 10 05:58
DaemonFCit doesn't atually save you that much powerAug 10 05:58
DaemonFCI turn it offAug 10 05:59
DaemonFC*actuallyAug 10 05:59
DaemonFCit also isntantly disables your overclocking if you don't turn it offAug 10 05:59
DaemonFCyou can disable it in the BIOS, leave it out of your kernel, or compile it as a module and blacklist the moduleAug 10 06:00
luwsrinteresting article about TransmetaAug 10 06:00
luwsrwhat ondemand?Aug 10 06:00
MinceRactually, the two-by-four works both waysAug 10 06:00
DaemonFCwhat it sounds likeAug 10 06:00
DaemonFCit switches the voltage up as your applications need the CPU to run fasterAug 10 06:01
DaemonFCthen down again when they are doneAug 10 06:01
luwsrI don't have problems with cpufreq the problem is powernow driver than only uses three speedsAug 10 06:01
DaemonFCthat's how it worksAug 10 06:01
DaemonFCyou can't turn the CPU voltage down more or you risk overloading the motherboardAug 10 06:02
luwsrnow it's running at 1000MHz the minimum specified.Aug 10 06:02
DaemonFCso it does't let youAug 10 06:02
luwsravailable frequency steps: 2.60 GHz, 2.40 GHz, 2.20 GHz, 2.00 GHz, 1.80 GHz, 1000 MHzAug 10 06:02
DaemonFClike I said, it barely saves any powerAug 10 06:02
DaemonFCit's mostly just grounding the rest of the voltageAug 10 06:02
luwsrkeeps the fan quieterAug 10 06:02
DaemonFCit's more to do with CPU temperature and fan noiseAug 10 06:03
DaemonFChence Cool 'n QuietAug 10 06:03
luwsrwow 100 million for the Crusoe doesn't seem bad. How much did the CELL cost?Aug 10 06:04
DaemonFCto be honest, a Core 2, i7,  or an Athlon64/Phenom don't run all that hot anywayAug 10 06:04
DaemonFCnothing like the Pentium 4 or the K6/2 or K6/3 didAug 10 06:04
DaemonFCor Athlon XP for that matterAug 10 06:04
luwsr+45°CAug 10 06:04
DaemonFCthat's probably alrightAug 10 06:05
luwsrbecause I don't have the AC onAug 10 06:05
DaemonFCthe Pentium 4 Extreme Edition regularly went over 70 degrees CAug 10 06:05
DaemonFCeven more if you pushed itAug 10 06:05
luwsrI am planning to redirect the AC right into the mobo.Aug 10 06:05
luwsrOo damn!!Aug 10 06:05
DaemonFCI installed a custom cooling systemAug 10 06:05
DaemonFCstill never got it below 50Aug 10 06:06
DaemonFClmaoAug 10 06:06
twitterah, a fun call out from three years ago.  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=198321&cid=16261033Aug 10 06:06
luwsrI've seen a p4 mobo it has a big ass Heat sink plus a huge fanAug 10 06:06
DaemonFCa Core 2 Duo usually wo't go past 40-45Aug 10 06:06
DaemonFCeven with just a fan and heatsinkAug 10 06:06
luwsrwell I think they are design to withstand that.Aug 10 06:07
DaemonFCthe cooler the CPU, the longer it livesAug 10 06:07
cubezzzI've been running this P3 at 71 C for years :)Aug 10 06:07
DaemonFCthe life expectancy of an x86 CPU at factory speed is generally 10 yearsAug 10 06:07
DaemonFCI've had them last much longerAug 10 06:07
DaemonFCmy 486 lasted 18 yearsAug 10 06:08
cubezzzI still have a working 8085 from 1983Aug 10 06:08
DaemonFCI have an 8008Aug 10 06:08
DaemonFC:DAug 10 06:08
Diablo-D3I have a 4004.Aug 10 06:08
cubezzzah, but does it work? :)Aug 10 06:08
DaemonFCyesAug 10 06:09
DaemonFCit's not in a PCAug 10 06:09
DaemonFCit's in an embedded system that teaches you Intel 8-bit assemblerAug 10 06:09
luwsrawww... I feel bad for transmetaAug 10 06:09
Diablo-D3luwsr: I dontAug 10 06:09
cubezzzI might have a 6502 which is older but no computer to run itAug 10 06:09
DaemonFCassembler is all kinds of fastAug 10 06:10
luwsrI have a 8046Aug 10 06:10
DaemonFCHelix MP3 encoder and Gogo both use x86 assembler instead of CAug 10 06:10
DaemonFCand encode to MP3 nearly 4 times fasterthan LAMEAug 10 06:10
DaemonFCI still use LAME thoughAug 10 06:11
DaemonFCit's still well maintainedAug 10 06:11
DaemonFCabout 1% of the Linux kernel is assemblerAug 10 06:11
DaemonFCbecause there is no C function for whatever they're trying to do thereAug 10 06:12
luwsrwhich parts?Aug 10 06:12
DaemonFCthey try to minimize that though because it's processor specific and not portableAug 10 06:12
DaemonFCvery performance critical sections mainlyAug 10 06:13
DaemonFCI don't even remember what all they listedAug 10 06:13
DaemonFCit's been years since I even lookedAug 10 06:13
luwsrI got the sourceAug 10 06:14
DaemonFCit takes so long to write any useful amount of code in assembler that almost nobody uses itAug 10 06:14
DaemonFCunless they have toAug 10 06:15
luwsrthere's an OS called Kolibri written in assembler it boots in have secondAug 10 06:15
DaemonFCContiki you mean?Aug 10 06:16
DaemonFCI think the Commodore 64 port is written in assemblerAug 10 06:17
DaemonFCthe rest are in C as far as I knowAug 10 06:18
luwsrno kolibriAug 10 06:19
twitterMadness ->  "Now out of office, Chirac recounts that Bush appealed to their "common faith" and told him: "Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East... The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled... This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins."Aug 10 06:19
twitterhttp://wvgazette.com/Opinion/JamesAHaught/200907220060Aug 10 06:19
DaemonFCCommodore had such a following that they've been out of business for 15 years and people still make software for their computersAug 10 06:20
cubezzzc64 was fun to programAug 10 06:21
DaemonFChttp://xkcd.com/619/Aug 10 06:31
Diablo-D3hahha hey guysAug 10 06:32
Diablo-D3I just beat the atomAug 10 06:32
Diablo-D3atom+ion, 25 watts, $203 with a 2gb stick of ddr2-667Aug 10 06:33
Diablo-D3sorryAug 10 06:33
Diablo-D3atom 330+ion, 25 watts, $203 with a 2gb stick of ddr2-667Aug 10 06:33
Diablo-D3sempron 140 (2.7ghz single core), gigabyte am3 785g board, 2x1gb sticks of ddr3-1066, $162Aug 10 06:34
Diablo-D3about 5 times more powerful, $40 lessAug 10 06:35
Diablo-D3the atom 330+ion's only claim to fame is it uses half the wattageAug 10 06:35
Diablo-D3in factAug 10 06:36
Diablo-D3if I swap out the memory for ddr3-1333 ($46 instead of $32), keep the $90 board, and swap to an athlon II X2 245 2.9ghz dual core ($68)Aug 10 06:38
Diablo-D3it costs the same, uses three times more watts, and does about ten times more workAug 10 06:38
Diablo-D3I think I'm going to shit myself laughing hereAug 10 06:43
twitteran epic outing, dudes http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0803091pranknet1.htmlAug 10 06:45
twittertoo bad they vilify Skype.Aug 10 06:45
twitteris it not the big bad interwebs that make such pranks and bad behavior possible?  droll.Aug 10 06:45
Diablo-D3aww pranknet is dead?Aug 10 06:45
Diablo-D3that place was awesome :<Aug 10 06:46
MinceR075707 < Diablo-D3> the atom 330+ion's only claim to fame is it uses half the wattageAug 10 06:47
MinceRum, isn't that kind of the whole point? :>Aug 10 06:47
Diablo-D3MinceR: look at where I build something $40 cheaper and uses 50 wattsAug 10 06:47
Diablo-D3I have lightbulbs in my house that use moreAug 10 06:47
MinceRthen perhaps you should look into compact fluorescent lamps :>Aug 10 06:48
Diablo-D3naw, cant stand themAug 10 06:48
MinceRalso, how's the graphics performance?Aug 10 06:48
Diablo-D3on an ion? actually pretty decentAug 10 06:48
MinceRafaik the ion's claim to fame is thatAug 10 06:48
Diablo-D3its enough to hardware decode high bandwidth h264 1080pAug 10 06:49
MinceRhow's the sempron-based thing doing?Aug 10 06:49
Diablo-D3the 785g is about twice the performance with 128mb of it's own memoryAug 10 06:49
Diablo-D3its a low end 4xxxAug 10 06:49
Diablo-D3the ion isnt using a low end 200 gtx, so the amd chip is kicking ass left and rightAug 10 06:50
Diablo-D3the sempron has 4x more raw memory bandwidthAug 10 06:50
Diablo-D3actually, more than 4Aug 10 06:50
Diablo-D3no, 4Aug 10 06:50
Diablo-D3the ddr3-1333 would have more than 4Aug 10 06:50
twitterp0wnt, completely ->  The stories, which each carried a distinctive url that was created solely for Malik's viewing, were first provided to the Pranknet founder in e-mails sent to his Gmail account (axis.r9@gmail.com). On three occasions over the last six weeks, within minutes of Malik clicking a link (which recorded his IP address in Windsor), Marquis also looked at the story, resulting in his Scarborough IP being memorialized on Aug 10 06:51
twitterha ha.Aug 10 06:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Signs That Microsoft Might Prepare for ‘Patent Terror’ Against Rival Office Suites http://ping.fm/bKYmtAug 10 07:04
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Search and Other Rogue Web Sites http://ping.fm/OEoCQAug 10 07:30
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Starts Looking More Like Vista Agony http://ping.fm/v3PXRAug 10 08:12
schestowitzOmbudsman just calledAug 10 08:25
Diablo-D3hows he doing? =PAug 10 08:26
Diablo-D3I havent seen him in here for awhileAug 10 08:26
schestowitz"Here is the message that the Commission never replied to. Let me know if more is needed."Aug 10 08:28
schestowitzJust needed to pass them more evidence that the EU Commission was shielding lobbyistsAug 10 08:28
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Google-Microsoft Tensions Revisited http://ping.fm/6CQk5Aug 10 09:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Caught ‘Stealing’ Music, Accuses Others of ‘Stealing’ Office http://ping.fm/IA8YzAug 10 09:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Dead (or Dying) Microsoft Products http://ping.fm/af36cAug 10 10:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Intel-Microsoft Collusion in Sub-notebooks: A Smoking Gun http://ping.fm/nqp2FAug 10 10:56
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trmancohttp://www.archlinux.org/news/434/Aug 10 11:47
schestowitzANarchISTLinuxAug 10 11:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Pays Fines in Vouchers — Not Money — to Wisconsin Schools, Takes Over More Nigerian Schools http://ping.fm/rC79BAug 10 11:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Arch Linux 2009.08 official snapshots http://post.ly/24TnAug 10 12:00
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trmancohttp://tr.im/Aug 10 12:15
trmancowowAug 10 12:15
trmancothere goes oneAug 10 12:15
schestowitzHahaha.Aug 10 12:17
schestowitzGood lesson, aye?Aug 10 12:17
*MinceR likes his urls long.Aug 10 12:17
MinceRhttp://hugeurl.com/Aug 10 12:17
schestowitz"There is no way for us to monetize URL shortening -- users won't pay for it -- and we just can't justify further development since Twitter has all but annointed bit.ly the market winner."Aug 10 12:17
schestowitzSubscribe now to shorten (i.e. 'mungle') your URLs for just $30 a monthAug 10 12:17
MinceRmunge? :>Aug 10 12:18
schestowitzMinceR: sounds like some URL pr0n Aug 10 12:18
MinceRor rather, mungAug 10 12:18
schestowitzYeah, whatever. One of those words that sounds like the actionAug 10 12:18
schestowitz*soundAug 10 12:18
MinceRhttp://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/M/mung.htmlAug 10 12:19
MinceRhttp://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/M/munge.htmlAug 10 12:19
MinceRboth work :>Aug 10 12:19
schestowitzThere is no way for us to monetize URL shortening -- users won't pay for it -- and we just can'tAug 10 12:19
schestowitzjustify further development since Twitter has all but annointed bit.ly the market winner.Aug 10 12:19
schestowitzOops. http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/E/Aug 10 12:20
schestowitzNo entry for ESRAug 10 12:20
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft’s CFO Sells MSFT http://ping.fm/NgZy7Aug 10 12:31
schestowitzAn day ago I listened to  http://www.twit.tv/floss76 . It's about Inscape, which was used to make the "Chairlet" award that the next post is about. We should run a content and attribute it to wallcimber.  This is great.Aug 10 12:35
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Golden Flying Chairlet Awards http://ping.fm/SbUd8Aug 10 12:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Web attack blogger blames Russia" < http://ping.fm/uWibY > How come no-one blames the Windows zombies?Aug 10 12:57
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schestowitzThe trolls from InfoWeek are backAug 10 13:06
schestowitzWith a provocative headline "is Linux irrelevant?" The truth is that InfoWeek is irrelevant, so they pass on as 'news' just a bunch of dross and old ramblesAug 10 13:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux: "Is Information Week irrelevant?" Yes, it is. They are passing new anti-Linux rhetorics to gain traffic in their dying publicatio ...Aug 10 13:08
schestowitzSomething seems to have gone wrong with Google News, unless it's my reader. It displays old news as newAug 10 13:10
schestowitzConfusing headline: http://www.v3.co.uk/vnunet/downloads/2207641/mozilla-personas (Mozilla Personas for Firefox 1.2.2)Aug 10 13:14
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schestowitz"Mozilla Personas 1.2.2 for Firefox" would be less ambiguousAug 10 13:15
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schestowitz"GNU/Linux accounts for about 10 percent of PCs, Pogson added. "If, at that level, we have never seen a botnet, we will not for a few years more," he said." http://www.technewsworld.com/story/67818.html?wlc=1249907958Aug 10 13:24
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ah! Brilliant: http://ping.fm/1RuoA Watch ITV content without blobs and DRM.Aug 10 13:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] A testar serviÇo da tmnAug 10 13:41
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thenixedreportGreetings everyone.Aug 10 13:51
thenixedreport:)Aug 10 13:51
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schestowitzAhoyAug 10 13:51
EruaranhelloAug 10 13:51
*Eruaran can't believe people are still buying shares in Microsoft...Aug 10 13:51
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thenixedreportKeep in mind that people are buying said shares for different reasons.Aug 10 13:52
thenixedreportSome may be simply thinking that MS will be stable over the next few years.Aug 10 13:52
thenixedreportOthers are probably wanting to attempt a hijacking of sorts.Aug 10 13:52
thenixedreport;)Aug 10 13:52
thenixedreportRemember, more shares = more votesAug 10 13:52
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Eruaranyay, more votes in a dying companyAug 10 13:53
Eruaran:DAug 10 13:53
schestowitzPeople with terminal disease are not allowed to die here... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1203622/Ill-die-endgame-says-Terry-Pratchett-law-allow-assisted-suicides-UK.htmlAug 10 13:53
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thenixedreport:)Aug 10 13:53
thenixedreportThey're still a big company.Aug 10 13:53
thenixedreportKeep that in mind.Aug 10 13:53
schestowitzJust shrunkAug 10 13:53
EruaranIf the CFO is selling... I don't think I'd be buyingAug 10 13:53
schestowitzIt won't grow againAug 10 13:53
thenixedreportThey're like a cornered animal.Aug 10 13:53
schestowitzI doubt it ever willAug 10 13:53
thenixedreportThey're more dangerous than ever.Aug 10 13:54
schestowitzThey have sold 3% of the company on FridayAug 10 13:54
schestowitzthenixedreport: yes, thus the need for vigilanceAug 10 13:54
schestowitzPatents are their spiel nowAug 10 13:54
EruaranI think they're on the verge of entering Commodore territory ;)Aug 10 13:54
thenixedreportBy purchasing shares, power can be taken away from them.Aug 10 13:54
thenixedreportSome are doing that.Aug 10 13:55
EruaranindeedAug 10 13:55
thenixedreport(Then again, there are those doing that for the wrong reasons as well)Aug 10 13:55
EruaranI think the aim might be to get rid of BallmerAug 10 13:55
thenixedreportAh Ballmer, the Joe Biden of the software world.Aug 10 13:55
EruaranHe made some more dumb comments recentlyAug 10 13:55
thenixedreportNot surprised really.Aug 10 13:56
schestowitzAGainst LinuxAug 10 13:56
EruaranHe reckons MSFT has a better business model than Apple or companies that offer Free SoftwareAug 10 13:56
schestowitzhttp://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/08/09/microsoft-ceo-belittles-apple-and-linux-in-one-speech/Aug 10 13:56
Eruaran0_oAug 10 13:56
schestowitzAs long as they have shareAug 10 13:56
schestowitzThe whole idea of developing alone only works if you have high cash flowAug 10 13:57
schestowitzMicrosoft has huge spendingsAug 10 13:57
schestowitzMandriva mostly integrates stuff and fixes itAug 10 13:57
EruaranI have a BenQ X31 notebook here... man I love this thingAug 10 13:58
EruaranJust about the perfect notebook for meAug 10 13:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More sheer corruption in journals: "Medical Papers by Ghostwriters Pushed Therapy " http://ping.fm/R4P07 You can even trust blogs more...?Aug 10 14:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] BBC reporter arrested over undercover Panorama investigation < http://ping.fm/VOBuU >Defending status quo?Aug 10 14:01
schestowitzTehelka news magazine pictures point to Indian police killing unarmed man < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/06/tehelka-expose-police-fake-encounter >Aug 10 14:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Ian Tomlinson's family accuse police of cover-up over his death" < http://ping.fm/ULj9u >Aug 10 14:03
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Ng--helpAug 10 14:11
schestowitzNg: procps version 3.2.7Aug 10 14:15
schestowitzusage:  Ng -h | -b -d -n iterations -p pid [,pid ...]Aug 10 14:16
Ngthanks! ;)Aug 10 14:16
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux is doomed!!111 :-) Macs run KDE 4.3 http://ping.fm/hvZBEAug 10 14:21
schestowitz"This is the first KDE4 version that I could really recommed for full time use. KDE 4.1 was ok, 4.2 was better but 4.3 is really good."Aug 10 14:21
schestowitzInstall KDE 4.3 In Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04 http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/08/install-kde-43-in-ubuntu-jaunty-904.htmlAug 10 14:22
schestowitz"Otherwise, the project isn't seeing any dips in participation rates, he said. In July, KDE.org had more than 12,000 changes--called commits--contributed to the project code base by developers. That's up from 10,800 commits in June. Over the past year, the commit rate has ranged from 8,000 to 11,000 per month, Seigo said."Aug 10 14:24
schestowitzhttp://linux.com/news/software/developer/33087-how-are-open-source-software-projects-surviving-the-economic-recessionAug 10 14:24
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I've just upgraded permanently to Firefox 3.5.x. Extensions regained compatibility, finally (I have about 30). Main browser is Thunderbr ...Aug 10 14:38
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mozilla’s Chris Beard Versus Software Patents (Video) http://ping.fm/iiHKQAug 10 15:05
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schestowitzFirefox has humour: "Well, this is embarrassing. Firefox is having trouble recovering your windows and tabs. This is usually caused by a recently opened web page."Aug 10 15:21
MinceRit's usually caused by the fact that session management in firefox sucks hardAug 10 15:22
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schestowitzNo, I deliberately killed itAug 10 15:23
schestowitzJust testing some stuffAug 10 15:23
schestowitzTinyURL extension doesn't workAug 10 15:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Worldwide Slump Makes Nigeria's Online Scammers Work That Much Harde < http://ping.fm/TYdw6 > Poor scammers...Aug 10 15:23
schestowitzIt's as though they don't maintain it anymore. I bet bitly and is.bad take a lot of people away from tinyrlAug 10 15:24
MinceRi tend to lose my session on upgrades, for exampleAug 10 15:25
MinceRand of course once the upgrade happens, firefox tends to be badly disabled until it's restartedAug 10 15:25
schestowitzI needed it for OggAug 10 15:25
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MinceR...so i couldn't even save it to bookmarks, i had to drag the tabs out into konqueror one by oneAug 10 15:26
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schestowitzI'm not sure why I ever used FirefoxAug 10 15:31
schestowitzI remember the days of MozillaAug 10 15:31
schestowitzNow we have /far/ more choice in GNU/LinuxAug 10 15:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Merciless software patent aggressor found likely to be engaging in corruption. http://ping.fm/6bXChAug 10 15:31
schestowitzPeople don't quite realise that when XP was a 'new' OS Linux was quite behind for practical purposes Aug 10 15:31
schestowitzVideo, Flash, Web browser in an age of ActiveXray (Cancer)Aug 10 15:32
MinceRi didn't notice thatAug 10 15:33
MinceRsomehow i didn't need RadioActiveX at all, ever :>Aug 10 15:33
schestowitzSome sites need this drekAug 10 15:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] http://ping.fm/wTuC5 TThis says nothing about copying of files via USB. Looks like self-serving dossier.Aug 10 15:33
schestowitzNot as many as there used to beAug 10 15:33
MinceRand as trash spread, it also became sort of supportedAug 10 15:34
MinceR(i think i'll still aim for running a separate browser for trash, though)Aug 10 15:34
MinceRthen i could even easily switch between trash and swfdec as neededAug 10 15:35
MinceRor use swfdec in my stable browser and trash in the temporary oneAug 10 15:35
schestowitzWhat mail client d'ya use?Aug 10 15:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Pigs fly in harmony as Toshiba does Blu-ray, which is valuable for massive off-site backups http://ping.fm/0Y5NrAug 10 15:35
MinceRevolutionAug 10 15:35
schestowitzMeh.Aug 10 15:35
schestowitzNovell~1Aug 10 15:35
MinceRbut i'm not even nearly satisfiedAug 10 15:35
MinceRi'm looking for one that supports search folders properlyAug 10 15:35
schestowitzUse THundrbird with ThundeBrowse if you read RSSAug 10 15:35
schestowitzI was on KMail till 2004/5Aug 10 15:36
MinceRevolution seemed to come closest, but the current version i'm using (lenny) is pretty brokenAug 10 15:36
MinceRi was on kmail until 1.10Aug 10 15:36
*schestowitz looks at curentAug 10 15:36
MinceRwhich introduced the new crash-when-you-look-at-a-search-folder featureAug 10 15:36
MinceR(which was fixed since)Aug 10 15:36
MinceR(iirc)Aug 10 15:36
schestowitz1.9.9 on mineAug 10 15:36
MinceRthunderbird breaks search folders pretty awfully, tooAug 10 15:37
schestowitzIt looks good cause of QtAug 10 15:37
schestowitzLooke QuteAug 10 15:37
MinceRalso, evolution does offline mode and syncing pretty well, i got used to that -- i'm not sure how well it's supported elsewhereAug 10 15:37
MinceRlast time i checked, kmail's disconnected imap support was pretty weakAug 10 15:37
schestowitzWhat if Google made a desktop mail client?Aug 10 15:38
MinceRit would probably suckAug 10 15:38
schestowitzI guess Chrome+gmail serves emAug 10 15:38
MinceRi'm waiting for a stable chromium, so i can see if it's worth the troubleAug 10 15:38
MinceRso far all google products i've ever used, except for web search and image search, sucked pretty horriblyAug 10 15:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MoD website outflanked by XSS flaws < http://ping.fm/fWd2X > It's a Windows shop. http://ping.fm/vqoC5Aug 10 15:45
EruaranI don't understand Google's development process with Chromium/ChromeAug 10 15:46
EruaranSeems like they made more work for themselves needlesslyAug 10 15:46
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schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/10/job_cuts_public_sector/ Job cuts move from private to public sectorAug 10 15:47
schestowitzEruaran: some say Microsoft's recruitment of Microsoft employees did not help muchAug 10 15:48
Eruaran?Aug 10 15:49
schestowitzGoogle has someAug 10 15:49
Eruaranyou mean Google's recruitment of M$ employees ?Aug 10 15:50
schestowitzYes.Aug 10 15:50
schestowitzAnd others.Aug 10 15:50
schestowitzGoogle's hires make up the companyAug 10 15:50
schestowitzAnd as it changes from within those whom they recruit change tooAug 10 15:51
schestowitzIt's like sending a crony into a city to open the gate for youAug 10 15:51
EruaranI was confused as you said, "Microsoft's recruitment of Microsoft employees"Aug 10 15:51
schestowitzWatch what they did to Yahoo! with Icahn and other GangsterAug 10 15:51
schestowitz*rsAug 10 15:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] < http://ping.fm/VwugS "Spam and scams have continued to flow from the fallout of last week's DDoS against Twitter."Aug 10 15:51
schestowitzEruaran: Oops. "Google's"Aug 10 15:51
schestowitzIt figuresAug 10 15:51
schestowitzHopefully we can still tell the difference b/w them in the futureAug 10 15:52
EruaranI'd consider the hiring of M$FT employees a huge waste of time, at best... at worst, a danger.Aug 10 15:52
schestowitzI still think of Yahoo! as Bartzmer smiling idiotically at BalmerAug 10 15:52
MinceREruaran: Chrome is a branded version of Chromium with proprietary crapAug 10 15:52
MinceRChromium is FLOSSAug 10 15:52
EruaranyesAug 10 15:52
schestowitzMinceR: maybe it's like AndroidAug 10 15:53
MinceRso they develop Chromium with the community, slap some evil code and google branding on it, and release ChromeAug 10 15:53
schestowitzChrome can't be FOSS cause of FCC :-)Aug 10 15:53
MinceRhuh?Aug 10 15:53
schestowitzIt must be closed, otherwise the TERROR~1 will fly planes into buildingsAug 10 15:53
MinceRlolAug 10 15:53
schestowitzI guess you don't know?Aug 10 15:53
EruaranThe M$-FCCAug 10 15:53
schestowitzThat's the excuse for closed phonesAug 10 15:53
MinceRi've heardAug 10 15:53
schestowitzFCC helps themAug 10 15:53
schestowitzAnd Applesoft tooAug 10 15:53
schestowitzWith HypePhoneAug 10 15:54
MinceRbut for a moment i was thinking of ChromeAug 10 15:54
schestowitzLet me find itAug 10 15:54
MinceRso are they going to ban OpenMoko now?Aug 10 15:54
schestowitzhttp://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090729/1929035702.shtmlAug 10 15:54
schestowitz"The EFF is trying to get a DMCA exemption from the Library of Congress for people who jailbreak their iPhones (if history is any indication, this won't happen -- the Library of Congress never seems to care about consumer rights)." []Is Apple Suggesting That The DMCA Prevents Terrorism?]Aug 10 15:54
schestowitzBritish boffin named first ever 'doctor of texting' < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/10/texting_phd/ >Aug 10 15:56
schestowitz"A student at a British university has been awarded the first ever PhD in text messaging."Aug 10 15:56
MinceRthose silly british scientistsAug 10 15:56
Diablo-D3schestowitz: you knowAug 10 16:00
Diablo-D3todays not a bad dayAug 10 16:00
MinceRit is a good day to die? :>Aug 10 16:01
schestowitzEU ombudsman slams commission for being mean to Intel http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1528769/eu-ombudsman-slams-commission-mean-intel Disappointing. It was about time someone tells Intel off for their crimes. Other continents did so too.Aug 10 16:01
schestowitzMinceR: only if you have terminal illnessAug 10 16:02
MinceR:>Aug 10 16:02
schestowitzSee, it's cloudy here today. Euthanasia on sunny days is kind of a waste :-pAug 10 16:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple imposes shackles on workers, not just customers. http://ping.fm/1go7eAug 10 16:06
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] So-called TERROR~1 countries have... well... CPUs!!! < http://ping.fm/8cLv1 > It is a little unjust for the US to impose sanctions also ...Aug 10 16:09
schestowitz...on innocent civiliansAug 10 16:10
schestowitzIf (cpu="available") than collide (plane, building);Aug 10 16:11
MinceRoh noesAug 10 16:11
schestowitzKDE4.. neat!! http://alediaferia.wordpress.com/2009/08/08/mediacenter-again/Aug 10 16:12
MinceRthat also means that at least thousands of people who dare think differently^W^W^W^W^Wterrorists also own state-of-the-art computing technology!Aug 10 16:12
MinceRs/differently/for themselves^W/Aug 10 16:12
tacone"celeron" == "state of the art": FALSEAug 10 16:14
schestowitzMinceR: they basically say, if you're a kid born in Cuba, then you're a threat to US 'national security' (which you ain't!), so you are not permitted to enter the digital age and get educationAug 10 16:14
schestowitzThe policymakers in the US have totally ignored public opinion on this and they cause resentment.Aug 10 16:15
schestowitzIIRC, polls show that 2/3 of US citizens want to embargo removed.Aug 10 16:15
MinceRi doubt that they'd only think of Cubans as suchAug 10 16:15
EruaranBig Brother will put you on a watchlist for making terrorist jokesAug 10 16:15
schestowitzCuba's main crime (other than past atrocities) is not taking orders from Bush and Cheney and chumsAug 10 16:15
schestowitzThey also set an example for Latin and South America, which is SO SO dangerousAug 10 16:16
schestowitzSO financial strangulation is the way forwardAug 10 16:16
MinceRwell, they have their current crimesAug 10 16:16
schestowitzPunish the population to overthrow the governmentAug 10 16:16
MinceRbut i doubt that the USA has the right to withhold IT from them because of thatAug 10 16:16
MinceRit's exactly the government who can get such hardware anyway, no matter whatAug 10 16:17
schestowitzYeah.Aug 10 16:17
thenixedreportBut as a soverign nation, the U.S. should be able to decide what things get to leave the country.Aug 10 16:17
schestowitzJust made them resentful in vainAug 10 16:17
MinceRsmuggle out a few from a country where they're sold freelyAug 10 16:17
schestowitzIt's like War On Drugs(R)Aug 10 16:17
schestowitzPeople who want drugs get them anywayAug 10 16:17
schestowitzJust less safely and for higher pricesAug 10 16:17
schestowitzWar on Piracy(C)Aug 10 16:17
schestowitz[no, not in Somalia]Aug 10 16:17
Diablo-D3can we have a War on Wars(tm) already?Aug 10 16:18
schestowitz"Antonia, I gots here two block of realyl really hard cocainnnna and 2 CPU"Aug 10 16:18
Eruaranyou can subscribe to the pirate bay with miroAug 10 16:19
schestowitzemocracy Playa!Aug 10 16:19
MinceRemocracy? :)Aug 10 16:20
schestowitzMinceR: typoAug 10 16:20
schestowitzDemocracyAug 10 16:20
MinceRfun typo thoughAug 10 16:21
schestowitzMaybe forbidden in CHina nonthelessAug 10 16:21
schestowitzOr maybe it's #1 result in BaiduAug 10 16:21
schestowitzKeeping people away from unhealthy stuff like WikipediaAug 10 16:21
schestowitzI'll post Linux news early today. It's a good day.Aug 10 16:21
schestowitzMinceR: mockracyAug 10 16:21
MinceR:)Aug 10 16:21
schestowitz"Ready for the desktop" meme again *Sigh* http://suffolk757.com/blog/2009/08/07/linux-getting-closer-to-being-ready-for-the-desktop/Aug 10 16:22
schestowitzBeef is almost ready for the tableAug 10 16:22
MinceR"Historically, Patricians were often power-mad, selfish men who didn't want to share their power. They believed in the principle of "one man, one vote" (as in, "I am the Man, I have the Vote")."Aug 10 16:22
schestowitzMurdoch is almost ready for the casketAug 10 16:22
schestowitzMinceR: the US is not a democracyAug 10 16:23
schestowitzIt never wasAug 10 16:23
schestowitzBut this error is repeated in many presidential speechesAug 10 16:23
schestowitzIt is technically a polyarchy since the country was founded.Aug 10 16:24
schestowitzHowto Disable Opera 10's Tray Icon http://www.ubuntu-inside.me/2009/08/howto-disable-opera-10s-tray-icon_08.htmlAug 10 16:24
schestowitzOpera is good. I'd use it if it were libreAug 10 16:25
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schestowitzl33t hax0r: http://linuxtree.blogspot.com/2009/07/alter-colour-of-your-ubuntu.htmlAug 10 16:25
schestowitzLook me. I cleaned up the orange/brown bitsAug 10 16:25
schestowitz*loom maAug 10 16:26
schestowitz*look ma [cant' type]Aug 10 16:26
MinceRi might use opera again, even though it's proprietaryAug 10 16:28
MinceRi want to find a sustainable way to manage packages from outside the repos, then i can install ff 3.5 or whatever and see if it's good enoughAug 10 16:28
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schestowitzMinceR: http://fracturedlogic.wordpress.com/2009/08/08/kubuntu/Aug 10 16:31
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dealsartilce http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/10/intel-microsoft-price-fixing/Aug 10 16:38
dealsforgot Maemo: http://maemo.org/Aug 10 16:38
dealssome spin going on vs MaemoAug 10 16:39
schestowitzhttp://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/08/i-want-to-love-firefox-35-but-it-keeps-crashing-on-me/Aug 10 16:40
schestowitzdeals: what spin?Aug 10 16:40
schestowitzI've not come acorss itAug 10 16:40
schestowitzThough I listened to this one yesterday. http://www.twit.tv/floss54Aug 10 16:40
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schestowitzMinceR: the US is not a democracyAug 10 16:05
schestowitzIt never wasAug 10 16:05
schestowitzBut this error is repeated in many presidential speechesAug 10 16:05
schestowitzIt is technically a polyarchy since the country was founded.Aug 10 16:05
schestowitzHowto Disable Opera 10's Tray Icon http://www.ubuntu-inside.me/2009/08/howto-disable-opera-10s-tray-icon_08.htmlAug 10 16:06
schestowitzOpera is good. I'd use it if it were libreAug 10 16:06
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schestowitzl33t hax0r: http://linuxtree.blogspot.com/2009/07/alter-colour-of-your-ubuntu.htmlAug 10 16:07
schestowitzLook me. I cleaned up the orange/brown bitsAug 10 16:07
schestowitz*loom maAug 10 16:07
schestowitz*look ma [cant' type]Aug 10 16:08
MinceRi might use opera again, even though it's proprietaryAug 10 16:09
MinceRi want to find a sustainable way to manage packages from outside the repos, then i can install ff 3.5 or whatever and see if it's good enoughAug 10 16:10
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schestowitzMinceR: http://fracturedlogic.wordpress.com/2009/08/08/kubuntu/Aug 10 16:13
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dealsartilce http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/10/intel-microsoft-price-fixing/Aug 10 16:19
dealsforgot Maemo: http://maemo.org/Aug 10 16:20
dealssome spin going on vs MaemoAug 10 16:20
MinceRwho's spinning against Maemo?Aug 10 16:21
dealswikipedia entry on Moblin edited to omit MaemoAug 10 16:21
dealshttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moblin&oldid=305228581Aug 10 16:21
dealsno clue,Aug 10 16:21
dealswhat are Novell or M$ ties to Moblin?Aug 10 16:21
dealsmebbe just M$ say-for-pay pundits afraid of naming the leaderAug 10 16:22
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roy__Why does Perlow promote Microsoft's bad imitation of virt? http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4038Aug 10 16:35
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MinceRvirt?Aug 10 16:36
schestowitzI fell off freenode (logger_bat stayed there, so I can merge)Aug 10 16:36
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schestowitzMolbin is Ballnux inflictedAug 10 16:37
MinceRhow?Aug 10 16:37
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roy__Why does Perlow promote Microsoft's bad imitation of virt? http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4038Aug 10 16:53
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MinceRvirt?Aug 10 16:54
schestowitzI fell off freenode (logger_bat stayed there, so I can merge)Aug 10 16:55
schestowitzdeals is goneAug 10 16:55
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schestowitzMolbin is Ballnux inflictedAug 10 16:55
MinceRhow?Aug 10 16:55
schestowitz*MoblinAug 10 16:55
schestowitzSo it could have taxAug 10 16:56
schestowitzMoblin is SUSEAug 10 16:56
MinceRoh.Aug 10 16:56
schestowitzI see there's some rocky weather in FreenodeAug 10 16:57
schestowitz"SUSE Studio" sounds like a women's hairdresser, no?Aug 10 17:01
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connectAug 10 17:01
MinceRnow that you mention it, it doesAug 10 17:02
schestowitzAwwwwwwwwwwww....... "Too Good To Be True" cliche http://www.itnewstoday.com/?p=766Aug 10 17:03
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Watch the logo/identity of SUSE Studio. It's like a representation of what Novell is to Microsoft. http://ping.fm/CLW0cAug 10 17:06
schestowitzcute picture: http://www.pclinuxonline.com/?p=196Aug 10 17:08
MinceRi'd prefer to be easily able to believe it isn't windows.Aug 10 17:10
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schestowitzUbuntu it is < http://www.muddysmind.com/archives/001374.html >Aug 10 17:13
schestowitzPCLOS is trying to be similarAug 10 17:13
schestowitzSee old logoAug 10 17:13
schestowitzhttp://fc09.deviantart.com/fs15/i/2007/020/3/d/PCLinuxOS_logo_by_urke.pngAug 10 17:15
MinceRughAug 10 17:16
schestowitzhttp://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=219100371   They are passing new anti-Linux rhetoric (See headline) to gain traffic in their dying publication.Aug 10 17:17
MinceRand it's working.Aug 10 17:18
schestowitzMicrosoft Works{tm}Aug 10 17:18
MinceRnice contradiction in termsAug 10 17:19
schestowitz[Sometimes. Read EULA and sign [here]]Aug 10 17:19
MinceR"Windows Server" is anotherAug 10 17:19
schestowitzServletAug 10 17:19
schestowitzShould have "Warning! DO NOT use in a production environment"Aug 10 17:19
MinceRIt Serves You Right!Aug 10 17:19
MinceR(or perhaps without the "It ")Aug 10 17:19
schestowitzWindows Seven-MinuteAug 10 17:20
MinceRWindows Seven-Months-Until-Reinstall?Aug 10 17:20
schestowitzDepends.Aug 10 17:20
schestowitzIf it has 64-bit and lots of RAM the Registry might copeAug 10 17:20
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] ..tick..tick..tick..tock...BOOM!!!!!! -_-Aug 10 17:22
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schestowitztrmanco: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/10/trim_url_shortening_service_dies/ Tr.im cuts air supply, says no money in tiny Web 2.0 potAug 10 17:33
schestowitzI've just learned some interesting things about Moblin, which is SUSE based.Aug 10 17:38
_Hicham_SUSE - Mono = A Great DistroAug 10 17:43
schestowitzPardus is better perhapsAug 10 17:45
schestowitzbased on reviewsAug 10 17:45
EruaranYou know, I think Microsoft could put together a good GNU/Linux distro. ;)Aug 10 17:46
schestowitzIt won't lastAug 10 17:47
schestowitzMicrosoft can't pay wages this wayAug 10 17:47
EruaranThink about it, they know all about using stuff developed by other people and putting it together in a package that is attractive to consumers. ;)Aug 10 17:47
schestowitzMicrosoft is still selling ice in AntarcticaAug 10 17:47
schestowitzMany people just don't know yet that they can carve ice off the groundAug 10 17:48
schestowitzEruaran: you mean "bundle""?Aug 10 17:48
EruaranindeedAug 10 17:48
Eruaranschestowitz: yes ;)Aug 10 17:48
schestowitzI'm sure Microsoft will sort out of some nice 'pot' (bribe) to forcefeed itAug 10 17:48
schestowitzThey already do that with SUSE to an extentAug 10 17:49
schestowitzThey funnel money for Novell to fight all those 'nasty' free LinuxesAug 10 17:49
schestowitzMicrosoft could call it hippios, just for the sake of itAug 10 17:50
schestowitz"Hippios comes in 7 innovative editions, enterprise ready and people-ready"Aug 10 17:51
schestowitzThen they'll exploit some 5 year old kids in adverts like they do in the UK.. to advertise HippiOSAug 10 17:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Denial of Windows on the Rise, Apparently http://ping.fm/srWPw http://ping.fm/mFSIQAug 10 17:58
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux is Getting the Tux3 File System http://ping.fm/Z1U0MAug 10 18:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Watching the Unisys Dell contractor fix an R610 chassis. Yeay Dell.Aug 10 18:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Augments Selection of Native Games http://ping.fm/DaQRvAug 10 18:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE development is healthy http://ping.fm/4P3AbAug 10 18:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment 4.3 Receives Quite Glowing Reviews http://ping.fm/NSGT3Aug 10 18:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Desktop Claimed as Easy as Anything Else http://ping.fm/Ph721Aug 10 18:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Arch Linux 2009.08 is Officially Released http://ping.fm/5Wat0 http://ping.fm/RqhAgAug 10 18:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Question of Distributions Diversity: Poll http://ping.fm/9uXDAAug 10 18:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mandriva and Its Family (PCLinuxOS) Gets New Packages http://ping.fm/ymeae http://ping.fm/QbgccAug 10 18:35
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mandriva Linux Derivative Pardus Linux 2009 Gets Wonderful Reviews http://ping.fm/lgRMqAug 10 18:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Debian Makes Live CD with KDE 4.3.0 http://ping.fm/05VfjAug 10 18:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu Derivative Trisquel 2.2 is Released http://ping.fm/KUJp6Aug 10 18:53
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of Kubuntu from GNOME Devotee http://ping.fm/T3iyFAug 10 18:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala (Alpha) http://ping.fm/a9nYcAug 10 18:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More New GNU/Linux Releases: paldo 1.19, GParted 0.4.6, Estrella Roja 2.5Aug 10 18:59
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wispygalaxyhi guys!  i'm back from my trip to germanyAug 10 19:01
schestowitzBeen ages !!Aug 10 19:02
wispygalaxyhi roy! :DAug 10 19:02
wispygalaxyi missed you guysAug 10 19:02
schestowitztrmanco: did you miss her too? :-pAug 10 19:02
wispygalaxyi came back yesterdayAug 10 19:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE4 is Coming to Sub-notebooks http://ping.fm/9x3eSAug 10 19:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] D-I-Y Fog Computing with Free Software http://ping.fm/ti6nhAug 10 19:02
wispygalaxyhahaAug 10 19:02
schestowitztrmanco said you ran away from us :-p[Aug 10 19:02
wispygalaxyoh no, i didn't mean to :(Aug 10 19:02
trmancohey heyAug 10 19:03
wispygalaxywhat's up? :)Aug 10 19:03
trmancoof course I missed wispygalaxyAug 10 19:03
wispygalaxyawww thanks!Aug 10 19:03
trmancoso, how was your trip?Aug 10 19:03
schestowitz[I was joking BTW]Aug 10 19:03
wispygalaxyhehe royAug 10 19:03
wispygalaxyit was great!  the weather was niceAug 10 19:03
wispygalaxyno humidity, NJ is so humidAug 10 19:04
wispygalaxynj= new jerseyAug 10 19:04
trmancoyeahAug 10 19:04
wispygalaxyand german candy is really goodAug 10 19:04
trmanconever been thereAug 10 19:04
trmanconj or germanyAug 10 19:05
wispygalaxyyou should go- it's prettyAug 10 19:05
trmancoeven though I'm not that farAug 10 19:05
schestowitzwispygalaxy: http://linuxundich.de/de/ubuntu/windows-7-fail-und-gratulation-an-kde/Aug 10 19:05
wispygalaxynj is alrightAug 10 19:05
wispygalaxythanks royAug 10 19:05
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wispygalaxybrb phoneAug 10 19:05
trmancobrb, showerAug 10 19:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Lib Dems Fight Web Abuse http://ping.fm/YWq3P , Malaysia Adopts Censorship http://ping.fm/QeGRoAug 10 19:10
schestowitzwispygalaxy: The Germans Love Laptop Linux. So Why Don't We? http://www.bmighty.com/blog/main/archives/2009/07/the_germans_lov.html Linux Laptops Bestsellers in Germany http://www.linuxtech.net/news/Linux_Laptops_Bestsellers_in_Germany.html Word on the street is that your Linux advocacy strip made all the difference.Aug 10 19:10
wispygalaxyim back!  :)Aug 10 19:11
wispygalaxyi saw linux in a store... in Germany!Aug 10 19:11
wispygalaxymedimax was the storeAug 10 19:12
wispygalaxyit was opensuse 11.1 i thinkAug 10 19:14
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schestowitzwispygalaxy: yes, Ubuntu is popular there tooAug 10 19:15
wispygalaxyi miss my ubuntu days hahaAug 10 19:16
wispygalaxybut now i'm a debian girlAug 10 19:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "The Decline and Fall of Microsoft" http://ping.fm/xRcZzAug 10 19:17
wispygalaxyMS is going the way of the Roman empireAug 10 19:18
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schestowitzDebian is strong nowAug 10 19:23
schestowitzAlso good upgrade pathsAug 10 19:23
schestowitzI might try Pardus next. It's temptingAug 10 19:23
wispygalaxyi heard of pardus beforeAug 10 19:24
wispygalaxyyes debian is great, i would like to try fedora nextAug 10 19:24
wispygalaxyi hear debian is changing its release schedule method?Aug 10 19:24
wispygalaxyso what's up with the Comp.os.linux.advocacy guys?Aug 10 19:24
wispygalaxydid you guys behave while i was gone?  :DAug 10 19:25
schestowitzNaaa...Aug 10 19:29
schestowitz"Now go to your room and tidy up"Aug 10 19:29
wispygalaxylolAug 10 19:30
wispygalaxyi'm on COLA now... reading some stuffAug 10 19:30
*schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_hF9zq4QXU&feature=PlayList&p=720F404A66AB6C14&index=42&playnext=2&playnext_from=PLAug 10 19:30
wispygalaxyinteresting, roy!Aug 10 19:30
wispygalaxymy chem teacher made chemistry so boring, but outside the classroom the subject is greatAug 10 19:31
trmancoArch Linux is going to be my next tryAug 10 19:35
wispygalaxymy friend at school tried it outAug 10 19:35
wispygalaxyhe liked itAug 10 19:35
wispygalaxyhe also tried out ubuntuAug 10 19:36
wispygalaxymaybe one day i'll be able to tackle gentooAug 10 19:36
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trmancoahhAug 10 19:36
trmancoI tried that onceAug 10 19:36
trmancoI failed to install the bootloaderAug 10 19:36
_Hicham_schestowitz : u don't have to host ogv files on BN, there is already Dailymotion OpenVideo HostingAug 10 19:37
schestowitzArch scares meAug 10 19:37
wispygalaxydarn bootloader :PAug 10 19:37
schestowitz_Hicham_: that's OKAug 10 19:37
wispygalaxydon't be scared, there are other distros to comfort you :DAug 10 19:37
trmancohttp://tinyvid.tv/Aug 10 19:37
trmancoarch is actually pretty easyAug 10 19:37
_Hicham_schestowitz : it is better than requesting proprietary flash from the userAug 10 19:38
wispygalaxythat's a relief, tony :)Aug 10 19:38
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trmancoI installed it a couple of times in a VM, never had a problemAug 10 19:38
trmancohe wiki is a great helpAug 10 19:38
trmancothe*Aug 10 19:38
wispygalaxywikis are a great way to pool knowledge into a convenient spotAug 10 19:39
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wispygalaxyyou don't need to scramble around on search enginesAug 10 19:40
wispygalaxyi never tried out a VM beforeAug 10 19:40
wispygalaxyi g2g now... lunchtime for meAug 10 19:42
wispygalaxysee you later!  :)Aug 10 19:43
trmancocyaAug 10 19:43
trmancohttp://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/996i0/arch_linux_200908_official_iso_release/Aug 10 19:43
wispygalaxybye tony!Aug 10 19:44
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trmancobyeAug 10 19:46
wispygalaxytell roy i said bye bye too :DAug 10 19:47
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_goblinhi allAug 10 19:51
trmancohelloAug 10 19:52
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_goblinhad 490 hits from one link today!Aug 10 19:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Mepis 8 review coming up shortly...as well as news on the Openbytes Podcast...I'm slowly getting through my list of "pending"Aug 10 19:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @TechCrunch Facebook Acquires FriendFeed http://tcrn.ch/4ZdHAug 10 19:54
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schestowitzGoogol and Googolplex by Carl Sagan < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lFQOmb6mVs&feature=PlayList&p=720F404A66AB6C14&index=36 > <-- before Google existedAug 10 20:10
MinceR190520 < _Hicham_> SUSE - Mono = A Great DistroAug 10 20:15
MinceRexcept it isn'tAug 10 20:15
MinceR:>Aug 10 20:15
schestowitz_goblin: tuxmachines, right?Aug 10 20:19
schestowitzI saw it thereAug 10 20:20
schestowitz_goblin: audiocast coming?Aug 10 20:20
schestowitzIt would be good to have more Brit ones, I'd listen. LXF has oneAug 10 20:20
schestowitzWhen will <video> be seen as OK by validators? http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fboycottnovell.com%2F%3Fstories&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.654Aug 10 20:26
_goblinsorry afk thereAug 10 20:28
_goblinnope it was distro watchAug 10 20:28
_goblintuxmachines hits total at about 100 per day (when an article in highlighted)Aug 10 20:29
_goblin*isAug 10 20:29
_goblindistrowatch ones get atleast 700Aug 10 20:29
_goblinlxer is around 50Aug 10 20:30
_goblinPodcast is coming....Aug 10 20:30
_goblinits slightly different to any of the others....think FOSS phonejacker.....Mr No nothing phones computer vendors with questions about Linux.....the answers are somewhat unique....Aug 10 20:31
_goblin*Know NothingAug 10 20:31
_goblinand a few interviews....think George Galloway style.....Aug 10 20:32
_goblinwow...Aug 10 20:38
schestowitzLxer really became weakAug 10 20:39
schestowitzThey link to many howtos, which are of no use to meAug 10 20:39
_goblinjust been ranked 58 on Wordpress's top posts of the day....Aug 10 20:39
schestowitz_goblin: you should have Galloway on the showAug 10 20:39
schestowitzHe's use ExherboAug 10 20:39
schestowitz*he'dAug 10 20:39
_goblinlove to...I am a big supporter of his....Aug 10 20:39
_goblinnot so much all he says, but how he does it.Aug 10 20:40
schestowitzI remember reverend Ted mailing me cause he made #1 in WordPressAug 10 20:40
schestowitzIt was after I submitted something to Digg and it made FPAug 10 20:40
_goblinjust need to get other contributors...Aug 10 20:40
schestowitzThat's how I met Ted, who worked for Novell at the timeAug 10 20:40
schestowitz_goblin: maybe I can helpAug 10 20:41
schestowitzThough I haven't voice for castingAug 10 20:41
_goblincool..Aug 10 20:41
schestowitzLeo Laprte has a goods voiceAug 10 20:41
schestowitz*LapoteAug 10 20:41
_goblinI would more like distro reviewers/articles......Aug 10 20:41
_goblinthe podcast is my forte.Aug 10 20:41
schestowitzhttp://live.twit.tv/Aug 10 20:41
_goblinI have several "voices" from old man, to cockney rebel to upperclass gentleman.Aug 10 20:42
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_goblinOh and Sandhurst high ranker!Aug 10 20:42
_goblinthe podcast, is hopefully a little humour at the expense of salesreps and FUD.Aug 10 20:43
_goblinbtw did you know that FOSS is meant for developing nations only? - Thats what one rep told me...Aug 10 20:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @mashable BREAKING: Facebook Acquires FriendFeed http://bit.ly/vd2g0Aug 10 20:45
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 10 20:49:01 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 10 20:49
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Aug 10 20:49
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 17:24:05 2009Aug 10 20:49
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 10 20:49
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Wordpress has ranked my blog 58th on Posts of the day!Aug 10 20:51
schestowitz_goblin: yes, such a *cast would be goodAug 10 20:51
schestowitzThere's not even one that's 'political' in nature. Even the SFLC podcast is sort of legal-orientedAug 10 20:52
_Hicham_FOSS for developing nations ? hahahahahaAug 10 20:52
schestowitzPeople are shy to talk about issues of particular natureAug 10 20:52
trmancohttp://www.h-online.com/security/Vulnerability-affects-all-major-browsers--/news/113965Aug 10 20:55
trmanco"A security advisory from SecurityFocus, modified a few days ago, now cites Chrome, Opera, Safari and Internet Explorer as being affected."Aug 10 20:55
trmancohahahAug 10 20:55
trmancoFirefox isn'tAug 10 20:55
trmancoit's been fixedAug 10 20:55
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_goblinI must admit to moving away from FF now....IAug 10 20:58
_goblinDillo, Chromium offer far better performance (on my machine)Aug 10 20:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Vulnerability affects all major browsers: http://is.gd/2aQ8o "...Chrome, Opera, Safari and Internet Explorer as being affected" @ovigiaAug 10 20:58
trmancoit doesAug 10 20:58
trmancobut performance isn't everythingAug 10 20:58
_goblinagreed....but simple things like Java input boxes feel slugish and "Vistaish" on FFAug 10 20:59
_goblinI feel really bad saying that.....Aug 10 20:59
_goblinBeen a champion of FF for many years.Aug 10 21:00
_goblinand it is still great....Aug 10 21:00
_goblinVery impressed with DilloAug 10 21:00
_goblina few formatting issues, but VERY fast.Aug 10 21:01
schestowitzbrbAug 10 21:02
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 10 21:04:41 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 10 21:04
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Aug 10 21:04
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 17:24:05 2009Aug 10 21:04
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 10 21:04
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*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connectAug 10 21:11
MinceRschestowitz: if i install Mandriva Free, how difficult will it be to install the extra codecs on it (the ones One comes with)? i'm looking at x86-64.Aug 10 21:21
_Hicham_MinceR : not difficult at all, there is codeinaAug 10 21:22
_Hicham_why not Mandriva One MinceR ?Aug 10 21:22
MinceRbecause that doesn't seem to have an x86-64 version at allAug 10 21:23
MinceR(tell me if i'm wrong)Aug 10 21:23
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connectAug 10 21:23
MinceRthen again, the extra stuff might simply not support x86-64 at allAug 10 21:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Jovens viajam «de borla» durante um dia: http://is.gd/2aRuT wohoo!!Aug 10 21:25
schestowitzMinceR: just install kaffeineAug 10 21:26
schestowitzIt has all the goodiesAug 10 21:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] DDoS is a Virus! http://ping.fm/3alXWAug 10 21:27
schestowitz[it's in the mand repos]Aug 10 21:27
schestowitzMinceR: or use PCLOS/PardusAug 10 21:27
MinceRalso, what about the proprietary drivers?Aug 10 21:27
MinceRit would be nice to have the package manager manage themAug 10 21:27
schestowitzGraphics drivers?Aug 10 21:28
MinceRnvidia graphics and intel wifiAug 10 21:28
MinceR(afaik the latter needs some firmware -- at least i needed it on debian)Aug 10 21:28
_Hicham_intel wifi doesn't need firmware on MandrivaAug 10 21:29
schestowitz_goblin: how much RAM does Chrome take on a 'normal' session?Aug 10 21:29
MinceRnot even 5100?Aug 10 21:29
_Hicham_Chromium doesn't offer a GUI to handle cerificates till now I thinkAug 10 21:30
_Hicham_MinceR : why not use the i586 Mandriva One CD ?Aug 10 21:31
MinceRbecause then i can't exploit fully the capabilities of my CPUAug 10 21:31
MinceR(Core 2 Duo)Aug 10 21:31
MinceRi was afraid of going x86-64, but i've heard it works fine and i haven't had any problems so farAug 10 21:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Women urged by marketer to test for fertility http://notnews.today.com/?p=591Aug 10 21:32
_Hicham_MinceR : how much RAM do you have ?Aug 10 21:32
schestowitz'Young girl, "Good one, dad. Now tell her our name is LADEN and see what happens!"' http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/07/overheard_at_airport.phpAug 10 21:33
MinceR4GBAug 10 21:33
_Hicham_then you need x86_64Aug 10 21:33
_Hicham_download the mandriva free dvdAug 10 21:33
_Hicham_you will find everythingAug 10 21:33
MinceRokAug 10 21:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Taliban publicises new "cute fluffy kittens" code of conduct http://is.gd/2aRZpAug 10 21:34
_Hicham_Mandriva have one of the largest repos in LinuxAug 10 21:34
MinceRthxAug 10 21:34
schestowitz_Hicham_: what about Debian?Aug 10 21:34
_Hicham_schestowitz : what do u mean ?Aug 10 21:34
schestowitzInternet.com Sold for $18 Million < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/08/10/internetcom-sold-for-18-million >Aug 10 21:35
_Hicham_Debian supports all archs on earthAug 10 21:35
schestowitz_Hicham_: big reposAug 10 21:35
_Hicham_schestowitz : yes, it has the biggest repoAug 10 21:35
_Hicham_i think that ubuntu now have the biggestAug 10 21:35
_goblinschestowitz: Looking nowAug 10 21:35
schestowitzSUBWAY'S SPY CAMS TO SEE ALL < http://www.nypost.com/seven/07282009/news/regionalnews/subways_spy_cams_to_see_all_181730.htm >Aug 10 21:35
_Hicham__goblin : where is the big G ?Aug 10 21:36
*_goblin is now known as _GoblinAug 10 21:36
schestowitz"UN climate change deal needs more sacrifices by West, John Prescott warns" http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/aug/08/copenhagen-kyoto-climate-change-talksAug 10 21:36
_Hicham_MinceR : what graphics card do u have ?Aug 10 21:36
_Goblinschestowitz: 63meg with 2 tabs openAug 10 21:36
MinceR_Hicham_: nvidia quadro fx 2700mAug 10 21:37
schestowitz_Goblin: if you opened 20.../Aug 10 21:37
_Goblinschestowitz: 1 tab has wordpress running....the other your site.Aug 10 21:37
_Goblinschestowitz: giving it a go....Aug 10 21:37
schestowitzFirepig takes a lot moreAug 10 21:37
schestowitzI upgraded to 3.5, but it seems roughly on parAug 10 21:37
schestowitzA lot of browsers are so greedyAug 10 21:38
schestowitzToo much caching of pagesAug 10 21:38
schestowitzI don't need that excessive cashing. It lead to swapAug 10 21:38
schestowitzI changed it in about:config but it seems to be overriddenAug 10 21:39
schestowitz"Iran trial hears 'apology' from UK embassy worker" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/08/british-embassy-worker-iran-trialAug 10 21:39
_Goblinschestowitz: 430 meg....but they are all active web pages and not just "blank" onesAug 10 21:40
schestowitzBush is insane... http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=haught_29_5 citing apocalyptic stuff from the bible to invade IraqAug 10 21:40
_Goblinnever tried that open pages....Aug 10 21:40
_Goblin*manyAug 10 21:40
_Goblinschestowitz: the rig Im currently on is: 1.8ghz AMD 32bit.....2gig ram...Aug 10 21:41
schestowitzHehe. "Vulture fund" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/09/congoAug 10 21:42
schestowitzThere's a lot of stuff that would not work without FFAug 10 21:43
schestowitzI use 3 browsers at the same time. It's time for change.Aug 10 21:43
schestowitzI won't use KonqAug 10 21:43
*wallclimber (n=ozma@ip68-230-37-218.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovellAug 10 21:44
MinceRwhy not konq?Aug 10 21:44
schestowitzMinceR: 3rd browser, too much RAMAug 10 21:44
_GoblinDillo is good.Aug 10 21:44
schestowitzI don't like the nameAug 10 21:45
_Goblin;) I think I get your drift....Aug 10 21:45
schestowitzThe last thing you wanna say is that "you're using dillo"Aug 10 21:45
trmancohttp://www.firefoxfacts.com/2009/08/10/techcrunch-crashes-firefox-3-5-i-ask-who-cares/Aug 10 21:45
_GoblinlolAug 10 21:46
_Goblinthanks...now I'll think of that everytime I say it.Aug 10 21:46
schestowitztrmanco: it nags more than 3.0Aug 10 21:46
schestowitzIt should just restoreAug 10 21:46
trmanconag?Aug 10 21:46
schestowitzSort ofAug 10 21:46
MinceRbrowsers crashing isn't that newAug 10 21:46
schestowitzIn FF 2.0 I had a good session managerAug 10 21:46
schestowitzIt's no longer compatibleAug 10 21:46
schestowitzWent down the bin bucketAug 10 21:46
schestowitzIt could save multiple sessions and restore from themAug 10 21:47
schestowitzSo I'd have sessions with many tabs for blogging or whateverAug 10 21:47
MinceRstuff like that make me want to go back to opera :>Aug 10 21:47
_Hicham_MinceR : Opera?Aug 10 21:48
MinceRyes, the browser they've named an art form after :>Aug 10 21:49
wallclimberlol...I just saw the golden chairlet awardAug 10 21:49
wallclimberon BNAug 10 21:50
wallclimberI'm laughingAug 10 21:50
_Hicham_I won't go on a closed source browserAug 10 21:50
_Hicham_everAug 10 21:50
schestowitzI'll do an iframe..Aug 10 21:50
trmancoit's qtAug 10 21:51
trmancogood for kdeAug 10 21:51
MinceR_Hicham_: i'd be choosy too if not all browsers sucked :>Aug 10 21:51
trmancoat least it doesn't try to break th webAug 10 21:51
_Hicham_I love FF, never had a problem with it since the official 3.5 releaseAug 10 21:51
_Hicham_no crashes at allAug 10 21:52
_Hicham_never crashed for meAug 10 21:52
MinceRi haven't used 3.5 much yetAug 10 21:52
_Hicham_MinceR : what are u using ?Aug 10 21:52
_Hicham_Mozilla builds do crash for me on flashAug 10 21:52
MinceRi'm on iceweasel 3.0.6 at the momentAug 10 21:52
MinceRi'll have to figure out how to install ff 3.5 into stowAug 10 21:53
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MinceRi don't want to mess up this system :)Aug 10 21:53
_Hicham_Mandriva doesn't have Firefox 3.5 yetAug 10 21:55
MinceRthen i'll have to do the same there, tooAug 10 21:55
MinceRwhere's the golden chairlet award?Aug 10 21:55
*tacone (n=Adium@151.81.50.64) has joined #boycottnovellAug 10 21:56
_Hicham_MinceR : you can compile you own Firefox, or just pick mozilla buildsAug 10 21:56
_Goblin_Hicham_ in the latest build of FF, Ive found a crashing bug on fullscreen flash...didnt happen with previous builds.Aug 10 21:57
MinceRi suspect i'll have to compile -- i'm not sure if stow will work otherwise. but i'll see.Aug 10 21:57
_Hicham__Goblin : on which site ?Aug 10 21:57
_GoblinYoutube....and don't laugh.....WWE.comAug 10 21:57
*DaemonFC (n=DaemonFC@c-68-57-223-59.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellAug 10 21:58
_Goblinand for the MS faithful who will no doubt hold that against me....Yes I am a wrestling fan.Aug 10 21:58
DaemonFCI set up a pair of spike strips out in my drivewayAug 10 21:58
DaemonFCnext person that comes flying through there using it as a turnaround is getting all four tires blown outAug 10 21:59
_GoblinDaemonFC what country are you from?Aug 10 21:59
DaemonFCUSAAug 10 21:59
_GoblinahAug 10 21:59
_GoblinokAug 10 21:59
_Goblinin the UK you are responsible for person(s)/property that are lawfully or unlawfully on yours.Aug 10 22:00
DaemonFCnot hereAug 10 22:00
DaemonFCthey come onto your property at their own riskAug 10 22:00
_Goblinso what about public places?Aug 10 22:00
trmancohttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/22/security_report_windows_vs_linux/Aug 10 22:00
DaemonFCunless you shoot them or something, then you should say "I felt physically threatenedAug 10 22:01
_Goblini.e shops?Aug 10 22:01
DaemonFC"I thought they had a gun/knife/really big stick"Aug 10 22:01
MinceR"It's coming right for us!"Aug 10 22:01
_GoblinlolAug 10 22:01
DaemonFCyou have a right to defend yourselfAug 10 22:01
_GoblinI was just thinking thatAug 10 22:01
_GoblinSouthpark!Aug 10 22:01
_Hicham__Goblin : are u a good wrestler ?Aug 10 22:01
DaemonFCbut you have to be threatenedAug 10 22:01
MinceRi'm threatened by exhaustion of oxygen supplyAug 10 22:02
_Goblin_Hicham_ : LOL.  No, I watch it, not participate in it!Aug 10 22:02
DaemonFClike if you were coming at me with a knife and I have good reason to think you'll harm me with it, I have a legal right to shoot you and kill youAug 10 22:02
MinceRsee, they're using it up as we speakAug 10 22:02
MinceR;)Aug 10 22:02
DaemonFCif someone is in your house and you decide to shoot them, you should shoot to killAug 10 22:03
DaemonFCthen it's your word vs. the corpseAug 10 22:03
MinceRindeedAug 10 22:03
_GoblinDaemonFC: Unless you miss and they get you.Aug 10 22:03
MinceRdon't missAug 10 22:03
MinceRuse a machine gun ;)Aug 10 22:03
DaemonFCit's not much harder to shoot twice than onceAug 10 22:03
DaemonFC:)Aug 10 22:03
MinceRfull auto, that isAug 10 22:03
DaemonFCfull auto is illegalAug 10 22:04
DaemonFCfederal felonyAug 10 22:04
MinceRa pityAug 10 22:04
MinceRthen again, you're better off gunwise than most countriesAug 10 22:04
DaemonFCyou can have pretty much anything semi-automaticAug 10 22:04
DaemonFCas long as it's not a sawn off shotgunAug 10 22:04
_GoblinI wouldnt need a firearm....I have: http://www.twitpic.com/1oyeqAug 10 22:04
MinceRthen again, i was considering that (at least here) legally railguns/coilguns aren't firearms :>Aug 10 22:05
_Hicham_only cowards use firearmsAug 10 22:05
Diablo-D3http://vimeo.com/5981422?hd=1Aug 10 22:05
DaemonFCthere's a civilian version of the M-16Aug 10 22:05
MinceRi hate dogsAug 10 22:05
DaemonFCit's called the AR-15Aug 10 22:05
_Goblinhe looks the part but is soft as anything.Aug 10 22:05
DaemonFCthose are kind of neatAug 10 22:05
DaemonFCthey can use M-16 parts including firing pin and selector switchAug 10 22:06
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: wrongAug 10 22:06
Diablo-D3please get it right.Aug 10 22:06
DaemonFCbut it's illegal to have any M-16 parts on them even if it's not converting it to do anything the AR-15 can'tAug 10 22:06
DaemonFCthe Armalite website says thatAug 10 22:06
Diablo-D3the armalite 15 was the original modelAug 10 22:06
schestowitzI wonder if Henry Kingman became a marketing person for Intel... http://moblinzone.com/blog/343/37/ARM_netbook_conscripting_Moblin_technology?Aug 10 22:06
DaemonFCso I'm pretty sure I'm rightAug 10 22:06
Diablo-D3the m16 was the military standardized version based on the ar15Aug 10 22:06
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: eugene stoner would kick your ass if he was still aliveAug 10 22:07
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: not only that, quit talking out your assAug 10 22:07
_GoblinIm a big fan of the Super Soaker....I armed the kids with them this year....big mistake.Aug 10 22:07
Diablo-D3there is no such thing as "m16 parts"Aug 10 22:08
_Goblinno parts for the M16 (whatever that is)Aug 10 22:08
_Goblinoh hang on...I see.Aug 10 22:08
Diablo-D3_Goblin: hes ignoring the entire 1994 assault weapons banAug 10 22:09
_Goblinah.....Aug 10 22:09
Diablo-D3hes also ignoring the m4 (the other standardized weapons platform based on the ar15)Aug 10 22:09
_GoblinMuch simpler here in the UK.....Aug 10 22:10
Diablo-D3not only that, many m16s do not have full autoAug 10 22:10
Diablo-D3its a waste of ammoAug 10 22:10
_Goblin"lethally barrelled weapon" - makes it a firearm.Aug 10 22:10
Diablo-D3_Goblin: the assault weapons ban doesnt workAug 10 22:10
_Goblinand an offence (w.o licenseAug 10 22:10
Diablo-D3it lists specific features that have nothing to do with anythingAug 10 22:10
Diablo-D3not only that, it calls rifles "assault rifles"Aug 10 22:11
Diablo-D3there is no such classificationAug 10 22:11
_Goblinthe only exception (of sorts) is a Sec5 Firearm which would be CS spray.....that also is illegal for MOP'sAug 10 22:11
DaemonFCI know, they converted them to three round burst because of people getting trigger happy and spraying down anything that movedAug 10 22:12
DaemonFCnot hitting anything but trees :PAug 10 22:12
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: not at allAug 10 22:12
Diablo-D3many M4s retain themAug 10 22:12
Diablo-D3M16s are not suited for the assault roleAug 10 22:12
DaemonFCmore suitable than an AK-47Aug 10 22:13
DaemonFCbut so is everythingAug 10 22:13
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: bullshitAug 10 22:13
_Goblin"you'll never get to heaven with an AK47...."Aug 10 22:13
Diablo-D3the ak47 is the best rifle design everAug 10 22:13
DaemonFCthe AK-47 is wildly inaccurateAug 10 22:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @jcalado: ROTFLOL!!! - TWO FEET TSUNAMI HITS THE COAST OF OMAEZEKI IN JAPAN. (via @BreakingNews) - tsunami de 60cm... me->LOLAug 10 22:14
Diablo-D3have you ever seen the direct impingement gas valve on ar15s?Aug 10 22:14
Diablo-D3its fucking shitAug 10 22:14
DaemonFCcan't even hit the same place three times with the gun bolted onto somethingAug 10 22:14
Diablo-D3it sucks in dirt, it sucks in mud, it sucks in waterAug 10 22:14
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: thats bullshitAug 10 22:14
Diablo-D3quit using cheap chinese knockoffsAug 10 22:14
Diablo-D3an ak47 is just as accurate as any other rifleAug 10 22:14
DaemonFCthe AK-47 is a weapon of terror, it's meant to intimidateAug 10 22:14
DaemonFCthe M-16 is a weapon of war, it is meant to kill the enemyAug 10 22:15
Diablo-D3are you nuts?Aug 10 22:15
MinceRi thought that was the Death Star.Aug 10 22:15
Diablo-D3the ak47 is a "weapon of war"Aug 10 22:15
DaemonFCthe Russian military has never put much value in a single unit or a single soldierAug 10 22:15
Diablo-D3kalashnikov would kick your ass if he was still aliveAug 10 22:15
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: dude, you're a fucktardAug 10 22:15
Diablo-D3the ak47 is perfectAug 10 22:15
DaemonFCtheir military doctrine is throw a lot of guys out there armed with passable weaponsAug 10 22:15
Diablo-D3you can drop it, you can bang it into shit, you can drop it in water, and it still fires as if was newAug 10 22:16
Diablo-D3you can also field strip most modelsAug 10 22:16
Diablo-D3the rotating bolt design is fucking perfectAug 10 22:16
Diablo-D3its simple yet robustAug 10 22:16
DaemonFCanyhow, they never even would have gotten a jet-powered fighter without reverse engineering a British engine that was given to themAug 10 22:16
_Hicham_is this a war zone ?Aug 10 22:16
*schestowitz wonders how a channel on computers turned to a firearms forumAug 10 22:16
DaemonFCwell, not for at least another 10 yearsAug 10 22:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft's Bing invaded by pharmaceutical scammers: http://is.gd/2aU99Aug 10 22:17
Diablo-D3_Hicham_: no, its just DaemonFC being cluelessAug 10 22:17
Diablo-D3if I was building an army, I sure as hell wouldnt use that ar15 shitAug 10 22:17
schestowitztrmanco: now, if only people actually used Bong...Aug 10 22:17
DaemonFCIt wouldn't be so easy for pharmaceutical scam sites to do business if the real medicine wasn't $400 a bottleAug 10 22:17
trmanco$400Aug 10 22:17
DaemonFCif the government was worried about protecting us, they'd regulate the real guys a bit moreAug 10 22:17
trmancowowAug 10 22:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft vs. Linux: If You Can't Beat 'Em, Join 'Em?: http://is.gd/2aUaeAug 10 22:18
schestowitz"A new, more accessible Microsoft"Aug 10 22:18
DaemonFCtramco: for a drug that doesn't have generic counterparts, $300-$400 a bottle can be quite commonAug 10 22:18
schestowitztrmanco: why do you peddle thos?Aug 10 22:18
MinceRaccessible via tanks? :>Aug 10 22:18
taconeaccessible ?Aug 10 22:18
schestowitzMicrosoft violated the GPL in attempt to divide the communityAug 10 22:18
schestowitzBallnux vs the restAug 10 22:18
schestowitzThey blew it and were going to be suedAug 10 22:19
taconeany of you can become the ceo of microsoft. this is america !Aug 10 22:19
schestowitzSo they put the Trojan in all distrosAug 10 22:19
DaemonFCdrug companies have gotten around regulation by putting in programs they don't advertise to "assist" you if you can't buy their drugsAug 10 22:19
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: I mean, shit dudeAug 10 22:19
Diablo-D3you love your ar15 so much?Aug 10 22:19
DaemonFCyou have to send them very invasive forms about your financial conditionAug 10 22:19
Diablo-D3buy a hk416Aug 10 22:19
DaemonFCthen they decide whether they will help you :)Aug 10 22:19
trmancoschestowitz, they won'tAug 10 22:19
Diablo-D3its a new upper that fits on any m4 lowerAug 10 22:19
Diablo-D3(most generically ar16 lowers)Aug 10 22:20
Diablo-D3er ar15Aug 10 22:20
DaemonFCthe most horrible thing I've ever heard Bill Gates say was when he said the drug patent system in place was perfectly alrightAug 10 22:20
schestowitztrmanco: they already did, wgetted into /dev/null/progra~1Aug 10 22:20
DaemonFCwell, the most deeply offensive anywayAug 10 22:20
schestowitzFine form himAug 10 22:21
schestowitzPerfect for himAug 10 22:21
schestowitzHe invests literally billions in the pharma cartelAug 10 22:21
schestowitzHe then promotes its drugsAug 10 22:21
Diablo-D3it uses the g36 shitproof rotating bolt design, similar to an ak designAug 10 22:21
MinceRm$ have bought their way into the leadership of linuxAug 10 22:21
schestowitzMaking people more dependent on thoseAug 10 22:21
DaemonFCI think that's the only thing he's said where I would have punched him in the face if he said it to meAug 10 22:21
DaemonFC:PAug 10 22:21
Diablo-D3schestowitz: ban DaemonFC alreadyAug 10 22:22
schestowitzHe makes threats of violenceAug 10 22:22
schestowitzHe was warned about itAug 10 22:22
DaemonFCmost of the scammers for pharma are based in Canada where their government won't do anything about it, and when they do, ten more crop upAug 10 22:23
DaemonFCthey turn around and don't look because it's bringing money inAug 10 22:23
DaemonFCwhile they sell us expired drugsAug 10 22:23
DaemonFCofficially they want to "find them and shut them down", unofficially they don't careAug 10 22:24
DaemonFCwe should like play musical chairs though, let Canada border Mexico for a whileAug 10 22:25
DaemonFCthat could get amusingAug 10 22:25
MinceRremove USA from the map? sounds good to meAug 10 22:26
schestowitzDaemonFC: proof pleaseAug 10 22:26
DaemonFCof course it wouldAug 10 22:26
schestowitzYou're stating this as though it's afactAug 10 22:26
DaemonFChttp://www.google.com/search?q=canadian+pharmacy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-aAug 10 22:26
schestowitzLike Alex Jones stating that gun crime in London is worse than the US or somehtingAug 10 22:26
DaemonFCthere you goAug 10 22:27
DaemonFCthat's a brainer manAug 10 22:27
schestowitzDaemonFC is the Alex Jones of the Lindows worldAug 10 22:27
schestowitzDaemonFC: that's a SERPAug 10 22:27
schestowitzIt's not factual, stillAug 10 22:27
MinceRthat's Linspire now :>Aug 10 22:27
MinceRor more accurately, Microsoft Linux, Xandros editionAug 10 22:27
schestowitzBTW, is it state-wide the age restriction for alcohol at 21?Aug 10 22:28
DaemonFCit's so much easier to bitch about America than build your own countryAug 10 22:28
DaemonFCyou want us here because we're an excuse for your failureAug 10 22:28
schestowitzUSA - where you can get a driver's licence at 14 (in few states IIRC) and can't drink until 21Aug 10 22:28
DaemonFCyou cannot get a license til 16Aug 10 22:28
DaemonFCin any stateAug 10 22:28
MinceRDaemonFC: how many countries have you built so far?Aug 10 22:29
MinceRpersonallyAug 10 22:29
DaemonFClearner's permit at 15Aug 10 22:29
schestowitzBTW, I have family there.Aug 10 22:29
schestowitzI love the USAug 10 22:29
schestowitzJust not the government, which still smells like GWBAug 10 22:29
DaemonFCyou know that there's a number of reasons we got that guyAug 10 22:29
DaemonFCand none of them involve a voter mandateAug 10 22:29
schestowitzDaemonFC: back in ICQ days I think someone told me it was 15 in some state...?Aug 10 22:29
schestowitzOr maybe my cousin told me... can't recallAug 10 22:30
schestowitzAnd you do only automatic gearAug 10 22:30
DaemonFCschestowitz: I've never heard of it being lower than 16Aug 10 22:30
DaemonFCtobacco sales are 19 in AlabamaAug 10 22:30
schestowitzI drove in Florida around that ageAug 10 22:30
DaemonFC18 in the other 49Aug 10 22:30
DaemonFC21 in all states for alcoholAug 10 22:30
schestowitzWhat's the age for driving licence in Alabama?Aug 10 22:30
DaemonFC16Aug 10 22:31
schestowitzThat's the state I had in mind when I wrote thisAug 10 22:31
DaemonFCthe southern states all tend to have lower age of consent laws tooAug 10 22:31
MinceRDaemonFC: if you've built 0 countries so far, kindly shut upAug 10 22:31
DaemonFCgo figureAug 10 22:31
schestowitzI bet no-one there obeys the rules anywayAug 10 22:31
schestowitzLike expecting freshers not to drinkAug 10 22:31
DaemonFCyou can operate a vehicle on private property at any age, license or noneAug 10 22:32
schestowitzRecipe for disasterAug 10 22:32
schestowitzMaggie Simspon... peep peep! [theme song]Aug 10 22:32
DaemonFCto take it on public roads you have to have it titles, and a valid non-expired plate, drivers license, and at least Property Damage and Bodily Injury insurance coverageAug 10 22:33
DaemonFC*titledAug 10 22:33
schestowitzWell, rifles are also allowed there in private terrotoryAug 10 22:33
*Muttley has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Aug 10 22:33
schestowitz"Ya get offfa my lawn of I blow yaz off"Aug 10 22:33
schestowitzSo goes the stereotype anyway..Aug 10 22:33
DaemonFCI had my Bodily Injury premiums go up a couple years ago cause I was coming down a hill and some stupid asshole with his ipod set to freight train volume was jogging across an intersection out on a country roadAug 10 22:34
DaemonFCamazingly he went flying over my hood, got a bruise and a couple scratchesAug 10 22:34
DaemonFCstill didn't stop the hospital from getting $5,000 and him getting another $20,000Aug 10 22:34
DaemonFCI couldn't stop because the road was basically unimproved and when I hit the brakes it just made me slide instead of stoppingAug 10 22:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Verona's University Migrates 4000 PCs to Linux http://ping.fm/OdvZxAug 10 22:36
DaemonFCanyway, I could hear the guy singing on his ipod which landed 20 feet from my carAug 10 22:36
DaemonFCso what does that say about how much attention he was paying?Aug 10 22:36
MinceRwhat does it matter? he's probably a crApple fanboy anywayAug 10 22:37
MinceRno amount of attention helps the RDF-clouded mind :>Aug 10 22:37
*DaemonFC waves his hand. " I didn't hit you, this is not the lawsuit you're looking for, move along"Aug 10 22:37
DaemonFC:DAug 10 22:37
MinceR:)Aug 10 22:38
DaemonFC"Here's $50, buy yourself a decent MP3 player"Aug 10 22:38
DaemonFCheheAug 10 22:38
DaemonFCYou know, those Chinese iPod knockoffs on ebay that they sell for like 10% the cost actually work betterAug 10 22:40
DaemonFCI got kind of a kick from thatAug 10 22:40
_Hicham_A Vorbis Player plzAug 10 22:40
DaemonFCthey do play VorbisAug 10 22:40
_Hicham_no patent encumbered tech in hereAug 10 22:40
DaemonFCand pretty much every other formatAug 10 22:40
schestowitzQuick List of Things To Do After Installing Ubuntu < http://ubuntumanual.org/posts/181/quick-list-of-things-to-do-after-installing-ubuntu >Aug 10 22:41
DaemonFCthe Chinese aren't going to bother paying for patent licenses, probably some of the reason those knockoffs are so cheapAug 10 22:41
schestowitzMinceR: are you getting the rig loaded with a Mandriva?Aug 10 22:41
MinceRi'm planning to try it on an external hddAug 10 22:41
_Hicham_so if Chinese people abondon mp3 and use Vorbis, mp3 will be lost for everAug 10 22:41
DaemonFCschestowitz: The Mandriva Flash that lets you install the setup you've made on the thumbdrive to the hard diskAug 10 22:42
schestowitzKDE version?Aug 10 22:42
DaemonFCnow that's coolAug 10 22:42
DaemonFC_Hicham_: MP3 and Vorbis are both really on borrowed time, I think in 5 years, it'll all be FLACAug 10 22:42
_Hicham_MinceR : why not on ur hdd?Aug 10 22:42
MinceRbecause there's no space for itAug 10 22:42
_Hicham_DaemonFC : no, FLAC will never be an optionAug 10 22:42
schestowitzin 5 years, mp3 patents expireAug 10 22:42
MinceR_Hicham_: it already is :>Aug 10 22:43
DaemonFCMP3 isn't a bad format, it just wasn't made with the dynamic compression jacking that modern CDs abuseAug 10 22:43
DaemonFC:PAug 10 22:43
MinceR_Hicham_: also, storage capacities keep growingAug 10 22:43
DaemonFCAAC and Vorbis handle that betterAug 10 22:43
_Hicham_MinceR : Flac is just like wavAug 10 22:43
MinceRin that it's lossless, yesAug 10 22:43
DaemonFCFLAC is just a lossless-compressed WAV file, exactlyAug 10 22:43
*schestowitz doesn't mind lossinessAug 10 22:44
_Hicham_and achieve small compressionAug 10 22:44
MinceRso?Aug 10 22:44
MinceR000438 < MinceR> _Hicham_: also, storage capacities keep growingAug 10 22:44
DaemonFCdecompress it and the WAV is a perfect match, right down to CRC, MD5, SHA1, whateverAug 10 22:44
schestowitzLife is lossy. Get over it. :-pAug 10 22:44
MinceRlife might be lossy, but music reproduction doesn't have to be.Aug 10 22:44
_Hicham_yes, that is the second principle of thermodynamicsAug 10 22:44
schestowitzPeople who pay too much attention to details never get much doneAug 10 22:44
_Hicham_if anyone here is into physicsAug 10 22:45
MinceRand no, that's not the second principle of thermodynamicsAug 10 22:45
DaemonFCthe problem with a lot of compression formats is that if a bit gets corrupted, you lose everything, but FLAC is at least as error-tolerant as a WAV fileAug 10 22:45
schestowitzMinceR: it isAug 10 22:45
DaemonFCso it's fairly safe to useAug 10 22:45
schestowitzYour microphone has lossAug 10 22:45
_Hicham_MinceR : what is the second principle of thermodynamics ?Aug 10 22:45
MinceRthe entropy of the universe always increasesAug 10 22:45
_Hicham_and that means ?Aug 10 22:45
schestowitzWell, it expandsAug 10 22:45
DaemonFCa lot of digital broadcast systems actually use MP2 because it's more fault tolerant than MP3Aug 10 22:46
MinceRnothing regarding music storage. :>Aug 10 22:46
DaemonFCMP1 has been dead for a long long timeAug 10 22:46
schestowitzAnd it might implodeAug 10 22:46
schestowitzThe theory goes to explain that there may have been a universe before this universeAug 10 22:46
_Hicham_MinceR : what is the meaning of this principle ?Aug 10 22:46
schestowitzBecause gravity at some stage is not sufficientAug 10 22:46
MinceR_Hicham_: that if things keep going as they do, the universe will eventually cease to be able to changed, and probably to hold information.Aug 10 22:47
DaemonFCI don't believe in gravity, I believe in Intelligent FallingAug 10 22:47
MinceR_Hicham_: how many billion years do you plan on living?Aug 10 22:47
DaemonFC:DAug 10 22:47
schestowitzDaemonFC: it's not about belief, or faithAug 10 22:47
MinceRi don't believe in light sources, i believe in Dark SuckersAug 10 22:47
schestowitzMinceR: we'll be lucky to make thousands of yearsAug 10 22:47
_Hicham_MinceR : the meaning of this principle is that there is no reversible transformations in the universeAug 10 22:48
MinceRdamn, Roger M. Wilcox's site is over quotaAug 10 22:48
DaemonFChmmm, the pattern file updates for MSE are getting bigger and bigger every dayAug 10 22:48
DaemonFCit's like evolution right before my eyesAug 10 22:48
MinceRso i can't show you his Dark Sucker Theory.Aug 10 22:48
schestowitzMinceR: dark holes? Black holes?Aug 10 22:48
DaemonFCmaybe I should kill it before it develops language skillsAug 10 22:48
schestowitzAnfd the warp/worms theories?Aug 10 22:48
schestowitzMore like fantasies.Aug 10 22:48
MinceR_Hicham_: that is, if you can't apply energy to them.Aug 10 22:48
_Goblinschestowitz: Since time does not really exist and the creation of the universe is a set of random occurrances....I think its entirely possible that there have been many universes.......if something has no beginning (before creation) then it would be highly improbable to believe that this is the only time the universe has existed.Aug 10 22:48
_Hicham_that is Steven HawkinsAug 10 22:48
_Hicham_Steven Hawkins from schestowitz countryAug 10 22:49
schestowitz_Goblin: there may also be invisible dimensionsAug 10 22:49
_Hicham_he is famous for his work on black holesAug 10 22:49
MinceR_Hicham_: if storing music without data loss means causing entropy increase elsewhere, so be it :>Aug 10 22:49
schestowitzIt's fascinating when even life itself gets sucked in (but where?)Aug 10 22:49
_GoblinAlthough I prefer the Red Dwarf theory....... Lister is god after creating the second big bang with jump leads from Starbug.Aug 10 22:49
MinceRwith strange eons, even death may dieAug 10 22:49
schestowitzBecause gravity is so great that it does that... so there are many unanswered questionsAug 10 22:49
_Hicham_MinceR : you forgot one thing, FLAC uses more CPU than VorbisAug 10 22:50
schestowitzOthewr universes can have different laws of natureAug 10 22:50
MinceR_Hicham_: so what?Aug 10 22:50
schestowitzMany different chemical elementsAug 10 22:50
MinceR_Hicham_: vorbis and mp3 both use more cpu than wav. use wav.Aug 10 22:50
DaemonFCFLAC does not use more CPU than VorbisAug 10 22:50
DaemonFCit uses far lessAug 10 22:50
schestowitz99% is helium and carbon IIRCAug 10 22:50
_GoblinThere may be some weird dimension where Vista was actually good....Aug 10 22:50
DaemonFCit does need more memory to decompressAug 10 22:50
DaemonFCbut that's trivialAug 10 22:50
_Hicham_schestowitz : most of the universe if dark matterAug 10 22:51
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_Hicham_dark matter is not made of chemical elements in periodical table ( aka Mendeleiv Table )Aug 10 22:51
schestowitzMost of the brain is grey matter, IIRC. Water..Aug 10 22:51
DaemonFCthe compression scale on FLAC doesn't really affect CPU usage for decompressionAug 10 22:52
_Hicham_here is Balrog the physicistAug 10 22:52
DaemonFCbut using 8 instead of 5 will double the encoding time and only save you a couple hundred KB per fileAug 10 22:52
schestowitz_Hicham_: pk/petokraus is our chemist hereAug 10 22:52
MinceRi thought it wasn't really decided what dark matter isAug 10 22:53
DaemonFCI only use 8 because I have a fairly fast CPU and I don't really care how long it takes to encode itAug 10 22:53
_Hicham_MinceR : yes, it is isn't decidedAug 10 22:53
schestowitzMS Office is copying OOo: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=3688Aug 10 22:53
MinceRschestowitz: most of the human body is water :)Aug 10 22:53
DaemonFCmore interested in how much storage space it takesAug 10 22:53
schestowitzPretending it's a 'community' thingAug 10 22:53
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schestowitzMinceR: yesAug 10 22:53
MinceRi had the impression that dark matter could simply be non-emitting matter, like usAug 10 22:53
DaemonFCVorbis is much more computationally expensive to decode than MP3Aug 10 22:54
schestowitzMinceR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa79YA0PqdE&feature=PlayList&p=720F404A66AB6C14&index=39Aug 10 22:54
_Hicham_MinceR : we are made of known matterAug 10 22:54
schestowitzBody 'parts' on a table (chemicals): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa79YA0PqdE&feature=PlayList&p=720F404A66AB6C14&index=39Aug 10 22:54
DaemonFCthey had a article somewhere a while back that said going from WMA unprotected to WMA with DRM cost you 24% of your batteryAug 10 22:54
_Hicham_dark matter is unknownAug 10 22:54
MinceR_Hicham_: which means it could be the same as us :>Aug 10 22:54
DaemonFCthat's aobut how much you lose going form MP3 to VorbisAug 10 22:54
DaemonFCunless your player supports hardware accelerated decodingAug 10 22:55
_Hicham_MinceR : maybe, which leads eventually to parallel universesAug 10 22:55
DaemonFC*fromAug 10 22:55
*schestowitz thinks DaemonFC floods the channel with most boring topics (encoding)Aug 10 22:55
MinceR_Hicham_: i don't see how, but it sounds interesting. :)Aug 10 22:55
trmancohey lookAug 10 22:55
trmanco[23:08] -SecureServ- trmanco_, O seu software de IRC está a ser testado contra Trojans. Por favor ignore mensagens de VERSION do SecureServAug 10 22:55
trmanco[23:08] * Received a CTCP VERSION from SecureServAug 10 22:55
trmanco[23:08] -SockServ- trmanco_, A sua maquina esta a ser testada pela PTnet. Consulte http://www.ptnet.org/servicos/abuse/ para mais detalhesAug 10 22:55
MinceRschestowitz: you know what the solution to that is. :>Aug 10 22:55
trmancoportuguese irc is crapAug 10 22:55
_Hicham_MinceR : do u watch BBC Horizon ?Aug 10 22:55
MinceRnopeAug 10 22:55
MinceRi'm not sure if we even get BBC here.Aug 10 22:56
trmanco3rd time alreadyAug 10 22:56
DaemonFCXiph.org really needs to come up with a better decoder before I'll consider Vorbis, and I'm not sure if that's possibleAug 10 22:56
MinceRactually, i don't watch much tv at all.Aug 10 22:56
DaemonFCmaybe if you rewrote the entire thing in assemblerAug 10 22:56
DaemonFC(not happening)Aug 10 22:56
MinceRDaemonFC: it's called FLAC.Aug 10 22:56
MinceR:>Aug 10 22:56
schestowitzMinceR: good for you...Aug 10 22:56
_Hicham_MinceR : BBC is everywhereAug 10 22:57
_Hicham_on every SatelliteAug 10 22:57
schestowitzDaemonFC could flood a kernel channel with journaling tripeAug 10 22:57
schestowitz_Hicham_: I don't trust the BBCAug 10 22:57
_Hicham_schestowitz : just let himAug 10 22:57
MinceRwell, that would at least be ontopicAug 10 22:57
DaemonFCbased on my (albeit limited) knowledge of assembler, it would probably take at least a year to port something like the Vorbis decoder for every platform you want to supportAug 10 22:57
_Hicham_schestowitz : why?Aug 10 22:57
schestowitzHistory CHannel seems betterAug 10 22:57
schestowitz_Hicham_: political propaganda, Microsoft propaganda, DRM...Aug 10 22:58
_Hicham_schestowitz : BBC Horizon is one of the greatest Documentaries SeriesAug 10 22:58
schestowitzALso MAFIAA propaganda (they write "piracy" and stuff)Aug 10 22:58
_Hicham_that is what I am talking aboutAug 10 22:58
schestowitz_Hicham_: yes, it's goodAug 10 22:58
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_Hicham_schestowitz : plus, BBC developed the dirac codecAug 10 22:59
schestowitzBut BBC is not just documentariesAug 10 22:59
schestowitzThere's World Service and news hereAug 10 22:59
_Hicham_and uses Vorbis for streamingAug 10 22:59
schestowitz'News'Aug 10 22:59
DaemonFCBBC America, Fox News Channel, CNN, all blocked on my box, in addition to the religious channelsAug 10 22:59
schestowitzApproved by cabinetAug 10 22:59
DaemonFCso I don't ever accidentally flip to any of them and throw things at my television :)Aug 10 22:59
schestowitzMicrosoft is infecting Office with Linux-hostile Silver Lie. http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=3666Aug 10 23:00
DaemonFCCNN is going more and more toward Fox News in their Republican "bark at the moon" conspiracy crackpots (Lou Dobbs)Aug 10 23:00
schestowitz*LOL* http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/1002_signs.jpgAug 10 23:01
MinceRlolAug 10 23:01
schestowitz"I've been saving up"Aug 10 23:02
DaemonFCreminds me of when a fire broke out in the office at the place I used to work at and this woman calls me and says the extinguisher doesn'tr work, so I tell her to piss it out, and she tells me she can'tAug 10 23:03
DaemonFCI come running up there with another extinguisher and put it outAug 10 23:03
DaemonFCand the next day I leave a rubber tube on her desk with a note that says "You fail the fire preparation exam, better luck next time"Aug 10 23:03
MinceRlolAug 10 23:04
schestowitzThe Real Clunkers in this Deal http://reason.com/news/show/135318.htmlAug 10 23:04
DaemonFCCash For Clunkers = Bread and CircusesAug 10 23:05
DaemonFC:)Aug 10 23:05
schestowitzBritain's secret mission to expose Scientology leader as 'fraud' < http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5981457/Britains-secret-mission-to-expose-Scientology-leader-as-fraud.html >Aug 10 23:06
schestowitz^^ DaemonFC's bfAug 10 23:06
DaemonFCHubbard was a genius really, he did a lot towards proving that people will believe ANYTHING en masseAug 10 23:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme SHORTURL SAVIOR: Bit.ly Swoops in to Save Tr.im http://bit.ly/a4HqZAug 10 23:07
DaemonFCspace aliens and hydrogen bombs are as believable as Jesus and the bibleAug 10 23:07
DaemonFC:PAug 10 23:07
schestowitzTwitter Continues to Battle DDoS Attack < http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/169897/twitter_continues_to_battle_ddos_attack.html >Aug 10 23:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme STUDY: Facebook Increases Jealousy in Relationships http://bit.ly/3OOyIMAug 10 23:08
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schestowitzhydrogen bombs =fictitious?Aug 10 23:08
DaemonFCspace aliens from a galactic confederation dropping them into volcanos with alien prisoners millions of years agoAug 10 23:08
DaemonFCtake it in contextAug 10 23:08
DaemonFCand they all flew here on DC-9sAug 10 23:08
schestowitzUS appeals court cans CAN-SPAM suit < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/08/spam_suit_torpedoed/ >Aug 10 23:09
schestowitzA lot of people sadly believe anything they see on TVAug 10 23:10
schestowitzAsk them about aliens after they watch ETAug 10 23:10
schestowitzIt's faith-based, not logicalAug 10 23:10
schestowitzSame in technology where marketing is predominant.Aug 10 23:10
DaemonFCwhat's funny is that we actually enforce anti-fraud rules against coutnries that don't reciprocate the favorAug 10 23:10
schestowitzGood examples: Vista, Vista 7 (see what happens next year)Aug 10 23:10
DaemonFCI say let them go until the country that's being defrauded returns the favorAug 10 23:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme uʍop ǝpısdn sǝʇɐpdn snʇɐʇs ʞooqǝɔɐɟ suɹnʇ s,ʎɹɹǝɾ & uǝq http://bit.ly/yj3S5Aug 10 23:11
*schestowitz flips screenAug 10 23:11
DaemonFCthat is against companies who defraud countries that don't return the favorAug 10 23:11
DaemonFCI have yet to see where the UK has prosecuted a single online outfit that was exclusively targetting AmericansAug 10 23:12
MinceRmarketing is even more predominant in the crApple cult.Aug 10 23:12
schestowitzI knowAug 10 23:12
schestowitzI was gonna use them as an exampleAug 10 23:12
MinceR:)Aug 10 23:12
schestowitzThey treat Jobs like a GodAug 10 23:12
schestowitzIt's something in human natureAug 10 23:12
schestowitzIconfying peopleAug 10 23:12
schestowitzLike Jesus ChristAug 10 23:12
schestowitzOr to some people it's LinusAug 10 23:13
schestowitzOr whoeverAug 10 23:13
trmancoVista SP1 with Antivirus Installed on Multiple CPU Systems Eats All Resources: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Vista-SP1-with-Antivirus-Installed-on-Multiple-CPU-Systems-Eats-All-Resources-118838.shtmlAug 10 23:13
MinceRto me, it's myselfAug 10 23:13
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DaemonFCit's because people reach out to any length to justify their own pre-conceived notionsAug 10 23:13
schestowitzMany vicious leaders as well. SOme people prefer to be told what to do. They find it comforting.Aug 10 23:13
DaemonFCthat's the part of human nature you're referring toAug 10 23:13
schestowitzDaemonFC: yes, I saw people fitting the universe's unified theory to religionAug 10 23:14
schestowitz'Harmonising' the twoAug 10 23:14
MinceRcognitive dissonanceAug 10 23:14
schestowitzIt's even uglier, in some ways.Aug 10 23:14
schestowitzIt's a distortionAug 10 23:14
DaemonFCschestowitz: You mean like Islamic dictators where they persecute people who don't go along with the state religion?Aug 10 23:14
MinceRand the other thing is being a pack animalAug 10 23:14
DaemonFCyeah, people support those types because they crack down on people that they hate for religious reasonsAug 10 23:14
DaemonFCthe government stays in power as long as they pander to the bigots in that countryAug 10 23:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @trmanco RT @tweetmeme uʍop ǝpısdn sǝʇɐpdn snʇɐʇs ʞooqǝɔɐɟ suɹnʇ s,ʎɹɹǝɾ & uǝq http://bit.ly/yj3S5Aug 10 23:16
DaemonFCthere's some of that going on in pretty much every government, but Iran is probably the archtypical example of the phenomenonAug 10 23:16
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DaemonFCAustralia seems to be nudging along in that direction oddly enoughAug 10 23:17
DaemonFCwith their religious-based internet censorshipAug 10 23:17
DaemonFCmost of that is just a government power grab where the porn filter is to toss the religious zombies a boneAug 10 23:18
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schestowitzDell kills its 12-inch netbook < http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Dell-Mini-12-and-Mini-9/?kc=rss >Aug 10 23:18
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DaemonFCI think Blackberry-type devices are going to be replacing the laptop and netbook market anywayAug 10 23:19
DaemonFCand Microsoft has had a terrible time trying to compete in that marketAug 10 23:19
DaemonFCthe iPhone is jsut too proprietary to be healthyAug 10 23:20
DaemonFCit'll limp along and reach its natural limit eventuallyAug 10 23:20
DaemonFCthen recede from that pointAug 10 23:20
schestowitzDell kills its 12-inch netbook http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Dell-Mini-12-and-Mini-9/?kc=rssAug 10 23:21
schestowitzIs it true that a linux model gets axed whreas others are "Linux-compatible" only?Aug 10 23:21
schestowitziPhone is powered by a lot of perceptionAug 10 23:21
schestowitzThe notion that Macs are expensiveAug 10 23:22
DaemonFCif I was the Blackberry people, I'd open source the software development kit under a BSD-style licenseAug 10 23:22
cubezzzZaurus got the axe too a while back :-/Aug 10 23:22
schestowitzSO if you can afford an iPhone than OMG you can now cut and pasteAug 10 23:22
schestowitzTheir ads are ridiculousAug 10 23:22
MinceRDaemonFC: what's going to be replacing our fingers then?Aug 10 23:22
schestowitzThey brag about a feature I had on my Pakm at the beginning of the centuryAug 10 23:22
DaemonFCa thing will ultimately succeed or fail depending almost entirely on how easy it is to develop forAug 10 23:22
cubezzzI don't even want the phone partAug 10 23:23
DaemonFCthey should focus on having the best SDK, and no DRM at allAug 10 23:23
schestowitzToy appsAug 10 23:23
cubezzzjust a good pocket computerAug 10 23:23
schestowitzSome use access to 'mashup' data like openstreetmapAug 10 23:23
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MinceRcubezzz: that died with the Zaurus, i'm afraid.Aug 10 23:23
schestowitzApple is good at consuming softwareAug 10 23:23
schestowitzLike KHTML and CUPSAug 10 23:23
schestowitzDoes Apple release much FOSS?Aug 10 23:23
DaemonFCMicrosoft and Apple flood the market with cheap and easy to use SDKs for that reasonAug 10 23:23
_Hicham_Apple Released WebkitAug 10 23:24
DaemonFCschestowitz: They do actuallyAug 10 23:24
Diablo-D3http://javaposse.com/index.php?post_id=510448Aug 10 23:24
Diablo-D3schestowitz: read read readAug 10 23:24
MinceRactually the KDE team released itAug 10 23:24
DaemonFCalmost their entire OS is free softwareAug 10 23:24
MinceRand it was called KHTML :>Aug 10 23:24
Diablo-D3schestowitz: read the first paragraphAug 10 23:24
schestowitzIt uses so much,... just uses. Samba, BSD..Aug 10 23:24
DaemonFCeven the FSF recognizes that muchAug 10 23:24
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Diablo-D3"    * People who followed the link for the SD Times story about Mono outpacing Java on Linux may have been confused that the article linked to and the one we talked about seemed to be different, they changed the story."Aug 10 23:24
DaemonFCthe Apple Public Source License is a free software license that is incompatible with GPLAug 10 23:24
DaemonFCthe incompatible with GPL part sends the religious GPL people arching their backs and hissingAug 10 23:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme 3 Key Reasons Facebook Bought FriendFeed http://bit.ly/dNLxEAug 10 23:26
DaemonFCeven though the FSF officially uses BSD licenses on many important projectsAug 10 23:26
DaemonFCschestowitz: And oddly enough, it's the free software Apple releases that the OS X cracks are all based onAug 10 23:27
schestowitzCompared to the KDE4 windows decorations, look how ugly the UI toolkit OOo uses: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/openofficeorg-cross-references-revisitedAug 10 23:27
MinceRwhat are the GNU/Linux cracks based on, then?Aug 10 23:27
MinceRoh, wait...Aug 10 23:27
Diablo-D3MinceR: too much eatingAug 10 23:28
*Diablo-D3 runsAug 10 23:28
DaemonFCthey're obviously not too worries about cracked copies of OS X on the PC because it's never going to work as well or get popularAug 10 23:28
DaemonFC*worriedAug 10 23:28
Diablo-D3alright, Im going to bedAug 10 23:28
Diablo-D3if Im making jokes like that, its time to goAug 10 23:28
DaemonFCactually a lot of "GNU/Linux" distros use product activationAug 10 23:28
MinceRlolAug 10 23:28
DaemonFCand it's entirely allowed by the GPL licenseAug 10 23:28
DaemonFCwhoopsAug 10 23:28
MinceRDaemonFC: you're making bad jokes too, go to sleepAug 10 23:29
schestowitzHe never sleepsAug 10 23:29
DaemonFCRed Hat Enterprise Linux, Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop, LinuxXP, iMagicOS, Linspire did itAug 10 23:29
schestowitzMotor mouthAug 10 23:29
DaemonFCwhere's the freedom that GPL is protecting?Aug 10 23:29
DaemonFCXandros does itAug 10 23:30
MinceRwhere's the activation part?Aug 10 23:30
DaemonFCbuilt into the OSAug 10 23:30
DaemonFCserial number and online activation and allAug 10 23:30
DaemonFCsome jsut use subscriptions to block out your updatesAug 10 23:30
DaemonFCwhich is about as bad as any Windows Vista activatorAug 10 23:30
DaemonFC*activationAug 10 23:31
MinceRsoftware updates are not activationAug 10 23:31
MinceRbut thanks for playingAug 10 23:31
DaemonFCsame thingAug 10 23:31
*MinceR ->Aug 10 23:31
_Hicham_It is different than in WindowsAug 10 23:31
DaemonFCif you have to "pirate" Red Hat Linux in order to run it, how is the GPL protecting the "freedom" of Red Hat Linux users?Aug 10 23:31
_Hicham_since you can get the sourceAug 10 23:32
DaemonFCsome of itAug 10 23:32
DaemonFCwell, mostAug 10 23:32
DaemonFCsame as OS XAug 10 23:32
_Hicham_RHEL source is freely downloadableAug 10 23:32
DaemonFCRed Hat builds in add-ons that are non-free, indeed entire file systemsAug 10 23:32
DaemonFCand CentOS can't clone thatAug 10 23:32
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_Hicham_well, you explain urselfAug 10 23:32
_Hicham_and what is wrong with that ?Aug 10 23:33
_Hicham_as schestowitz said, motor mouth, that is allAug 10 23:33
DaemonFCGlobal File System was nonfree for yearsAug 10 23:34
DaemonFCuntil 2004Aug 10 23:34
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schestowitzGroklaw has h/w failure... http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090809133923781Aug 10 23:35
DaemonFCanyway, in theory, and bear with me for just a moment, if the GPL theoretically would let every single distro and package use "activation" and serial numbers, and every system and package did use it, how is the GPL protecting you?Aug 10 23:35
DaemonFCin theoryAug 10 23:35
DaemonFCI know someone could come along and compile everything without it, but what if they didn't bother to?Aug 10 23:36
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DaemonFCit's a roadblockAug 10 23:36
_Hicham_you pay for their effortAug 10 23:36
_Hicham_GPL is not about giving everything for freeAug 10 23:36
_Hicham_there are feesAug 10 23:36
DaemonFCso in other words, it's free because I can compile all 20,000 packages myselfAug 10 23:36
DaemonFCin theoryAug 10 23:36
_Hicham_GPL encourages selling softwareAug 10 23:37
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DaemonFCand if anyone tries it, their stuff tends to be cloned and given out for free anywayAug 10 23:37
schestowitzOr hardware with softwareAug 10 23:37
DaemonFCyes I knowAug 10 23:37
_Hicham_GPL encourages you to make moneyAug 10 23:37
schestowitzRed Hat sells boxesAug 10 23:37
DaemonFCwhich was the basis for the Novell Microsoft dealAug 10 23:37
DaemonFCso Novell really did have stuff nobody else can useAug 10 23:37
schestowitzNoAug 10 23:37
schestowitzThey screwed the GPLAug 10 23:37
schestowitzThey said, "We can distribute it, you can't"Aug 10 23:38
schestowitzThey created a dividrAug 10 23:38
schestowitz*derAug 10 23:38
DaemonFCright, so if I clone Suse Linux Enterprise, then mine HAS to be missing those piecesAug 10 23:38
DaemonFCI can't make anything equal to theirs from their sources, right?Aug 10 23:38
DaemonFCwithout violating the license, the law, or what have youAug 10 23:38
schestowitzit's differentAug 10 23:39
schestowitzPatent covenantAug 10 23:39
schestowitzbrb\Aug 10 23:39
DaemonFCand the GPL never really specified much about patent restrictions, which means gray area, which means that Novell will never be bound by any additional restrictions in GPL 3, and even if they otherwise would be, they are grandfather clausedAug 10 23:40
trmancohttp://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=219100623&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_ALLAug 10 23:40
trmancoloolAug 10 23:40
DaemonFCwhich gives them an unnatural advantage over everyone else, which is what they were after anywayAug 10 23:40
trmancohas this been coveredAug 10 23:40
DaemonFCif the GPL3 was worried about freedom, they never would have said "And anybody who fucked their users over before this date is immune from the extra provisions in GPL3"Aug 10 23:41
DaemonFCso Novell and TurboLinux and everyone else gets to slip their distro over the fence, and everyone else is bound by the new licenseAug 10 23:42
schestowitz[Rumor] Moblin chegando aos Eee PCs < http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/openofficeorg-cross-references-revisited > Picture    Asus readying Moblin netbook?  <  http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/266038/asus-readying-moblin-netbook.html > This one says it's based on Fedora, but it's not anymoreAug 10 23:42
DaemonFCthat has to be the most horrible political compromise I've ever seen the FSF stoop down toAug 10 23:43
schestowitzStop speading disinfoAug 10 23:43
schestowitzOnly Novell was grandfatheredAug 10 23:43
DaemonFCnopeAug 10 23:43
DaemonFCanyone before a certain dateAug 10 23:43
schestowitzThe FSF pardoned themAug 10 23:43
DaemonFCit never specified Novell anywhereAug 10 23:43
_Hicham_sweet DaemonFCAug 10 23:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] US Air called, reneged on $908 check. Now it is $240 to my card, check for $668, $600 in vouchers. $908 two weeks ago was cheaper! WTF?Aug 10 23:44
DaemonFCso all existing Microsoft agreements, including Novells, are coveredAug 10 23:44
DaemonFCthat also covers TurboLinux, and Xandros, and a number of othersAug 10 23:44
DaemonFCso the GPL3 extends and arificial "shield" over the explotative companies who got there first and ensures that anyone who really is scared into using "covered" distros always uses those guys distroAug 10 23:45
DaemonFC*anAug 10 23:45
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DaemonFCsweet deal if you ask meAug 10 23:45
DaemonFCnot so great for anyone elseAug 10 23:45
DaemonFCthat entire section of the license has no business being there, and issues a blanket pardon for the assholes who got there firstAug 10 23:46
DaemonFCif you use GPL3, you should modify it to exclude that section or you automagically give Novell the right to use your softwareAug 10 23:46
DaemonFCwhile engaged in their Microsoft dealAug 10 23:47
DaemonFCI think that's one of the few reasons that Linux will never be GPL3Aug 10 23:47
DaemonFCLinus has said he's not interested in dictating the hardware that Linux runs on, or patent terms, and I very seriously doubt he wants to create a double standard while setting patent termsAug 10 23:48
Balrog_grr ... I'm really mad at what the local library is doingAug 10 23:49
DaemonFCif anything, people should be petitioning the FSF for a GPL version 3.1 that strikes that provisionAug 10 23:49
Balrog_first they implement filtering that can't be disabled by staffAug 10 23:49
Balrog_now they block ALL portable apps as well (from accessing the Internet)Aug 10 23:50
DaemonFCthere has to be a way around itAug 10 23:50
DaemonFCWebsense?Aug 10 23:50
Balrog_I don't know :( ... I took a look and it's pretty locked downAug 10 23:50
DaemonFCtry using TORAug 10 23:50
DaemonFCthat may very well workAug 10 23:50
Balrog_NOTHING other than IE and WMP can go out to the InternetAug 10 23:50
Balrog_other apps just 'time out'Aug 10 23:51
DaemonFCthat's easy to spoofAug 10 23:51
DaemonFCset your Firefox user agent to the version of MSIE they are usingAug 10 23:51
DaemonFCpoint Internet Explorer to useragent.orgAug 10 23:51
DaemonFCand use that user agent line for FirefoxAug 10 23:51
Balrog_I don't think they're using useragent; rather they're using application-level firewallingAug 10 23:51
Balrog_not even PuTTY can connectAug 10 23:51
Balrog_(that's an SSH client, if you don't know)Aug 10 23:51
DaemonFCit's most likely user agentAug 10 23:51
DaemonFCNTLM is the only other method I know of, and Firefox has spoofed NTLM handshakes for yearsAug 10 23:52
DaemonFCcan't hurt to try UA spoofingAug 10 23:52
DaemonFCworst that can happen is it still won't workAug 10 23:52
trmancohttp://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136454/Ballmer_confirms_Windows_7_Starter_restrictions_for_netbooks?source=rss_newsAug 10 23:52
Balrog_True; I'm not there right now.Aug 10 23:52
DaemonFCuse their exact user agentAug 10 23:53
Balrog_But isn't what they're doing illegal ?Aug 10 23:53
DaemonFCjust using the default MSIE user agent may not workAug 10 23:53
DaemonFCno it's notAug 10 23:53
Balrog_yes, if I ask a librarian to disable the filter the law requires them toAug 10 23:54
DaemonFCso file a lawsuitAug 10 23:54
DaemonFCfile it in small claims courtAug 10 23:55
DaemonFCcite the law in questionAug 10 23:55
DaemonFCand the judge's ruling will bind them to take the filter downAug 10 23:55
Balrog_I'll send polite letters to the head of the library system and to the legislators firstAug 10 23:55
Balrog_Their IT department ... well it should suffice to say that they're not very respectableAug 10 23:56
Balrog_IMOAug 10 23:56
DaemonFCcite the law, be polite, hint that you may use "legal alternatives" to compel them if the issue is not resolvedAug 10 23:56
Balrog_yes.Aug 10 23:56
DaemonFCand sent it Certified MailAug 10 23:56
DaemonFCmake a photocopy of the letter and immediately write the date sent on itAug 10 23:56
DaemonFC*sendAug 10 23:57
DaemonFCdon't just spout that you'll sue them, say "I may explore legal alternatives to further your compliance with said statute"Aug 10 23:57
DaemonFC:)Aug 10 23:57
Balrog_yes.Aug 10 23:58
DaemonFCthat scares them because it's vague and you aren't committing to a threatAug 10 23:58
Balrog_yesAug 10 23:59
DaemonFCsign off with "I appreciate your timely consideration in this matter" "Sincerely, (your name)"Aug 10 23:59

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